The Viall Files - E539 Going Deeper with Joey Zauzig - Iced Coffee, Fake Friends, and Threesomes. Period.

Episode Date: February 9, 2023

Welcome back to another episode of The Viall Files, Going Deeper Edition! Today we are joined by reality TV star Joey Zauzig. Before getting into the interview, we discuss Grammy performances and losses, and play F*ck, Marry, Kill with award shows. We then bring on Joey for his interview, where we dive into his current relationship and therapy journey, how he separates sex and intimacy, and how open relationships or threesomes can help you and your partner stay close. We also play a “Good Friend” game where we get to debate what a good friend would do in various situations - from missing their birthday dinner to finding out they’re cheating. We then bring on our Texting Office Hours caller who needs to end a situationship after he continues to violate her boundaries. Joey puts on his relationship advice hat and reminds her that she deserves more!  “Adele will touch your heart. And push you into having a threesome.” If you are interested in running a book club in your city, send an email to: [e-mail]  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes. Or, put “Amp” in the subject line if you want to join our live show on Thursday nights. If you would like to get some texting advice on Office Hours send an email to [e-mail] with “Office Hours” in the subject line! To Order Nick’s Book Go To: http://www.viallfiles.com  To advertise on the show, contact [e-mail] or visit https://www.advertisecast.com/TheViallFiles THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: AWAY: Start your 100-day trial and shop the entire Away lineup of travel essentials, including their best-selling suitcases and bags at https://www.AWAYTRAVEL.com/viall Babbel: Right now, get up to 55% off your subscription when you go to https://www.Babbel.com/viall. Babbel - language for life.  ZBiotics: Go to https://www.zbiotics.com/VIALL to get 15% off your first order when you use VIALL at checkout. Thank you ZBiotics for sponsoring this episode. Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall @joeyzauzig @alison.vandam @liffordthebigreddog

what's going on everybody welcome back to another episode of the vile files going deeper edition i'm your host nick joined by Allie and Amanda. What's up? Hey. Happy Wednesday. I feel like it's impossible not to be in a good mood after like being in the same room as Joey. Really like energetic like vibrant person. He is. Yeah. Get ready to get in a good mood everyone because we are. And he's like honest you know like I feel like sometimes like there's like this positivity thing and I'm like what are you hiding? Where are the bodies buried? Like you are too zen and positive and I just feel like he's positive in a way like sometimes like there's like this positivity thing and i'm like what are you hiding where are the bodies buried like you are too zen and positive and i just feel like he's positive in a way that's like still really authentic and real and he admits to like all the areas where he's like i'm looking to grow he's positive about not having a million

things to be well i mean he has a lot to be positive about but he also seems to recognize that not all he's not always positive but he's positive when he's positive, if that makes sense. As opposed to the people who are like faking their positivity. Yeah. Yeah. No, he was lovely. Ray of sunshine. Yeah.

What's new? What's going on in the world? Well, okay. So the Grammys were this past weekend. Did you guys watch? Yeah, I did. I saw clips. Okay.

So there was like, you know, there were like some bigs, like the whole like Harry Styles, wrong way, stage turning, Beyonce being late because of traffic, there was also like something that I could not stop thinking about while watching the Grammys is like what is it like to be the partner of someone who like loses a Grammy because it's like these are people who have like pushed themselves who have continually like got like these fish who have gone to bigger and bigger and bigger ponds and still been the big fish.

And this is kind of like the biggest pond there is. And so I can't imagine they take it well. So I was wondering, one, would you rather be the person who lost an award or the partner of someone who lost the award? And then two, who do you think is- Well, I guess it just depends on the person losing. Like who's the biggest sore loser?

That's a good question. Because you're implying that the people losing are don't handle it very well and that their partner has to pick up the emotional like baggage or they have to do the emotional heavy lifting for their partner because it's like they have to sue their partner who's disappointed and crushed after all they they put into it and if that's the case i mean i wouldn't want to be the partner. Like, okay, so did you see

Megan Fox's caption? Yes. So, okay, so it's, congratulations on being, this is to Machine Gun Kelly, congratulations on being

in the very small percentage of artists who have received a Grammy nomination. You've handled this process with a grace and maturity that I haven't seen from you before

and I'm so proud of you. Watching you walk in humility and gratitude, watching you grow into yourself and become a better man is immeasurably more satisfying experience than watching you accept an award. Although those will come, dot, dot, dot. That sounds like a mom writing to her son. And this is irrelevant, I guess, but I will just never ever get over how beautiful your face is. I hope one day you'll see yourself in the way I see you. I love you. And I'll keep this memory of you forever. So it sounds like he had a bad night after the loss. Like this is some uplifting.

It sounds like this was a mom writing to her son. Best case, he pouted. Worst case, temper tantrum. In fairness, she did also post on Instagram that I believe she has a concussion and a broken wrist. So she's like not thinking straight? I'm just like wondering if that. There's a lot working against her

writing an Instagram caption right now. That's a good asterisk to keep in mind. Maybe the concussion. Also it was sweet. I mean it was nice but it implies It feels like it's a response to a behavior. A response to something. And it's like and yeah i

think the question my question is like is it kind of like like anger like tantrum me or is it like deep self-doubt and insecurity or maybe he handled it really really well this time yeah and in the past yeah i think machine gun kelly though is a very introspective and like emotionally aware person at least that's what he presents like i remember when he went on the drew barrymore show he full-on in the middle of their segment was saying i just want to let you know like i'm kind of in a weird headspace today so if i'm coming off as like aloof that's not my intention at all and i just want to be real like he's he seems like that type of person so maybe this is just her almost like sticking up for her man because she saw him be very introspective.

And maybe he maybe he didn't take it poorly. Maybe he didn't crash a guitar. Maybe she just knew he was really hopeful for this. Like maybe she knew it was something that he really wanted. It was a beautiful message. I guess it's just one of those things where like and maybe that's the day and age that we're in. But it's just like, you know, we write messages to each other on social media. It could be a birthday, a holiday, an event, an award or whatever. But like, to me,

like that's not necessarily for me or us, you know, as, as public figures, you, you, you know, it's like you, you want to share, it's a sharing with the world but in terms of like it reads as if she's talking to machine gun kelly but i guess i would hope that this wasn't the first time machine gun kelly saw this message yeah you know or or had this conversation with her because it's like i always say like instagram's not a love language like i i don't know i don't know if people are communicating that way like wait that's an interesting topic for debate. Like Instagram's not a love language. Do you say what you have to say or send the cards or whatever

and then go to Instagram? Or is Instagram the way you're like, well, I mean, I posted about you. Go read it. Like to me, it's weird. I totally agree that there's no way. You know, public facing. Yeah, because it's hard for it to not like inherently be performative because it's like this is a state instagram is like a stage for

like it's not for me it's it's it's a message to the public about me that my partner wants to share that being said and i totally agree that like yes there's this like inherent like performative aspect it could never replace like one-on-one communication or just like words of affirmation in that more like personalized way do you think it's fair to be upset with a partner if they like don't like your instagram stories or don't like comment on your posts if who doesn't you're like if you're dating someone it matters more than i want to think it does you know because it's like yeah it's i think it can matter a little yeah it matters a little bit so after your engagement ashley made that super long post yeah do you wish she would have just sent that to you individually great question well i it it was

meaningful to me that she wanted to share that to the world about me. But if it was like Natalie, I would want her to have communicated that to me prior to sharing that message. You know, I've always kind of known Ashley and Jared have said that to me. And a lot of things they did share, maybe not like in a message like that. They have nothing they said about me was anything they haven't said to me, to my face,

you know, on various times, right? And they kind of put it all together in one kind of very beautiful and generous message. Yeah. I mean, yeah. So I guess, no, my point still stands. Everything they wrote about me, they have pointed out to me or said to me or told a story or whatever. And it was, it was meaningful to me that they wanted to share that with the world. But if that was the first time I heard that, it would have been like, I mean, that was nice,

but wow, I didn't realize they thought that about me. Like what a weird way to read this for the first time. Yep. You know? Yeah. It's almost like a grand gesture where it's like, those are awesome in relationships,

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Don't forget, tonight, Better Date Than Never, episode three? Four. Four. Episode four. You do not want to miss it. We've got some great calls lined up for you, some best practices. We want to hear some success stories tonight. It was kind of depressing last week a little bit. So we want to give some people hope. So if you are around at 9 p.m. Eastern, 6 p.m. Pacific, and you want

to hear some fun dating stories, some success stories. Yeah. Also, if you have some success stories, we'll be doing live callers like we always do. Come in. We want to hear some things that worked for you, little tips and tricks. It's meant to be fun. Join us. You don't want to miss it. Don't forget that Raven Ross from Love is Blind is with us next week on Going Deeper. It is a big, big juicy episode with all the tea. All the tea about her relationship with SK. The rumors about cheating and infidelity. How it all went down. It's wild.

Our jaws were dropped. You do not want to miss it. Also, if you were on the show, whether it was texting office hours, shooting your shot, whether it was an Ask Nick, we want the update. We want to know how you're doing. Even if things didn't work out the way you wanted to, even if it feels like you're still in a similar place you were before, we want to know why you're having trouble incorporating the advice.

We want to know if the advice was effective for you. We just care about you. And we want to know why you're having trouble incorporating the advice. We want to know if the advice was effective for you. We just care about you. And we want to know how things are doing, how things are going. Also, Vile Files now has a TikTok. So we know you're fun. We know you're on TikTok. Go ahead. Go to the Vile Files page.

It's at Vile Files. Be one of our founding followers. All right. Well, let's get to Joey. So only iced coffee? only iced coffee ever because i'm gay because you're gay gay is only drink iced coffee no matter what it could be two degrees in aspen we're only drinking iced coffee who started the iced coffee gay revolution i don't think i don't know did a gay man in invent the iced coffee i don't well i don't think anyone's taking credit so i'll be the one to take credit for inventing iced coffee for the gays for the game you're welcome and why do you think that is i don't know it's too hot i

think we like it like a little shake we like a little like the shake it's it's really the shake you want to listen to it and it makes it i don't know i i and the straw you need a straw oh yeah oh yes you're not gonna drink unfortunately for joey he is drinking with a straw with hot coffee but you wouldn't typically because you don't want your teeth to be yellow correct so what you do is you take the straw this is like the best thing i could tell anybody you put the straw you put it like coffee all the way back in the back of your throat like you're deep throating or something throat or something, but you want to bypass the teeth. Straight down the throat. Who drinks hot coffee?

I can't. So it's about the straw. I think so. You need a straw, your teeth are going to be yellow. So is it about putting the straw in the back of your throat? Yeah, you put the straw in the back of your throat, you bypass the teeth. Gotcha. So it's all about the teeth.

It's all about the teeth it's all about the teeth everything's a spectrum nowadays so the temperature of your coffee is like kind of where you fall on the spectrum maybe yeah like gay is super cold like the Kinsey scale

it's almost as slushy yeah and then like if you want to do like light ice from Starbucks you're like a little bit more you know closer to like a dad daddy hot coffee but your coffee is burning fucking hot so I'm straight as fuck it must be like 110 degrees in this bitch

it's actually making me hot I need to hydrate this is gonna make my voice more raspy than it already is Joey welcome how are you? I'm so good thanks for having me i'm excited to be thanks for coming how's your heart of course um my heart is it's good today it's feeling grateful and like excited today yesterday it was um a bad day why but today is a good day what do you do on bad days tell me about your bad day you woke up and on bad days i cancel the day i cancel and i cancel everything i go on a hike i go work out and i let myself be in my feelings for three to four hours and then i

snap out of it after a long hike and i move on and i tell myself that tomorrow's a new day what was your bad day about just like everybody i feel like self-doubt and just reading some of the comments. I woke up. This is so bad. And this is what I don't recommend. I woke up and the first thing I did is I went to TikTok. And it was a bad, bad thing to do to start the day. Because it was just, I saw all these comments.

Well, you went to TikTok or you went to your page? I went to my notifications. Yeah, because i posted a video the night before so i was like this video is gonna do good but instead i was like fuck i just saw like my notifications and then i got into a deep what was the video about it was just something from the show a clip of me and it didn't really get me in my feelings but it's just you know frustrating that people that are talking about it aren't really watching it and then they want to watch these five second clips and then judge what it's about so you know it's

one thing if people talk about the show but it's another if they talk about your like physical appearance and that hurts i'm sorry it's okay but today i'm like back to joey you look hot i feel hot dressed in all white i feel hot i look great that's how quick we can all snap out of it if i can do it you can do it so hiking is your kind of zen bounce back i think so and just like not pressuring myself to do anything i don't want to do that day so just giving myself that how would you get through if you had to what if you couldn't hike i would just what if they were like hey it's time to work i would probably just look in the mirror and snap myself out of it because i've had to do that a million times like it's not like i get to cancel the day every day i'm very fortunate to be able to do that yesterday but if i had to like come here today i would still have to like take five seconds in my car and just snap myself i'm

good at that you are yeah i think we all can be it's just a it's just a mindset shift it's not hard sometimes you gotta fake it till you make it, honey. And sometimes that means like telling yourself you're okay, even when you're not and putting on a smile and deal with it later. How's therapy? How'd you know? I just started therapy for the first time. Yay! Well, I'm doing couples.

I went out on a limb. You're doing couples therapy. I'm doing couples therapy and individual therapy. Did you start at the same time? Yes. And therapy is really hard for me because like i'm one of those people if i'm paying someone i kind of i'm like ticking in my head i'm like okay like what when's the help coming like how yeah you want immediate gratification yeah so it's good i feel better like if i'm having a bad day after talking

to my therapist i instantly feel like a weight lift off my shores that i didn't know i had so i recommend therapy i've uh yeah i've if you have like the therapy high have you ever gotten that like you know you i had it for the first time you did yeah i was like i don't even need to go individual couples it just felt good to like have a third party yeah because i think couples have a really like if you can't find a form of communication that works for both of you you're doomed because no two people are ever going to communicate the same way you have to find your own way of communicating i'm a therapist bitch like what you have to find your a new way of communication that works for both of you and

that's difficult to do it's a make or break i mean i've found yeah it's uh it's a really helpful interesting thing and we talked about love languages what are your love languages uh acts of service for sure interesting did you have it like what did you think it was okay i thought off the bat that your um love languages to be gifts. Wait, did you think I gave or received? Received. Really? And physical touch. Okay.

Why did you think I like to receive gifts? I don't know. You just look like a guy that's open to receiving gifts. It just kind of like gives me that. Should we be sending you more gifts, Nick? Well, hang on, girls. I'm not a gift guy. I'm the opposite.

You're acts of service. Yeah. Gifts, I mean, I'm not saying I don't like i'm not a gift guy i'm the opposite your acts of service yeah gifts i mean like i'll i'm not i'm not saying i don't like gifts but i'm always kind of like thanks me too i'm not a gift person if i want something i'll buy it i don't me too i don't i don't need i don't need the burden of having to like the thing that you're really excited about giving i hate that i almost don't like gifts because it just makes you it's pressure to be like oh i love that and like i'm not good at faking it where where where where the gift where the gift is fine yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah so yeah i'm an acts of service guy do you not want to talk about couples therapy i can talk about the couple's therapy i just think it's really you know i i think we we talk a lot about

relationships and dating on this show and we talk a lot about couples therapy but people talk about the couples therapy. I just think it's really, you know, I think we talk a lot about relationships and dating on this show and we talk a lot about couples therapy, but people talk about going to couples therapy more than they go to couples therapy, I feel like. That's why we did it. Cause I think that we would. How did you guys get to that point?

Because I'm assuming, and correct me if I'm wrong, you probably talked about it. Maybe it was a fight or two, whatever. But there was a moment where finally you guys agreed to go. And I'm curious, what was that moment? How did you guys do that? Because again, for so many people out there, they talk so much about couples therapy

and then they never really go. And people treat couples therapy like reconstructive surgery rather than like a safety belt. And it's more effective as a safety belt. Yeah, so we talked about for about two years okay and we didn't do it until like last week and to be honest it was like you know we would get in these huge fights and not be able to communicate and then we'd open up the rug and we'd just shove so much shit under there and then it'd be like an explosion of shit

and finally all the stuff came out the rug honey the rug was pulled from under us and i was like okay we either do this or we're not gonna last because it's great and then it's bad and it's great and it's bad and like i have way too much stuff going on in my own head right now and my own life that like my relationship's really important to me and i knew that therapy would be the only way so we had to to do it. It got down to a dire need, and I'm not going to lie about that. Communication was just getting so bad. But now it feels like it's already, after two sessions,

it already feels like it's on the up. What did you learn about yourself and how you communicated with your partner? What's your partner's name? Brian. Brian. How did you communicate with Brian? And then what did you learn about

how he communicated with you? what's a revelation that you learned um if you're willing to share i'm all i'm willing to share everything um the one thing i learned was more about like when he says something or does something like sometimes he'll pull away but he loves touch but if it's not at the right time and place for him she was like how does that make you feel like i she made me dig deep and it comes back to like me feeling like unwanted or me feeling like unloved or like that person doesn't what it really isn't coming from there but like that's how i maybe feel and it goes back to like little old joey who like people weren't playing with me in kindergarten and i feel like you know not loved and not cared about and then that spirals

into me being like angry and nasty because i can get very i have a very my temper is i have a really bad temper and i get really angry and it gets really scary and i'm not gonna lie about that and i think people are very surprised to hear that about me i can get i can get mad it doesn't surprise me to hear about anyone yeah i mean i wouldn't have guessed that but i can lose my shit but i'm working on it very i'm working on it okay to me there is nothing worse than having a really fun night planned and then you also have plans the next morning and the fun night just inhibits you from having a productive morning, like having to skip a workout class or missing out on an early morning, really anything.

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We are certainly obsessed. Stream every episode of Traders Now only on Peacock. I'm working on it. I'm like, I'm just kidding. kidding it's like should we try to trigger him do you guys want to see it or what i'm like we can turn it on do you break things how bad how scary um i've broken things before okay not anymore that was like when i was like younger and i was like angry after my parents divorced and that's where it comes from but i've done a lot of self-work that's why i kind of put off therapy because i've done so much work on my like three years ago i was a different person four months ago i was a

different person i'm proud of the growth i've done by myself but i feel like if you anyone wants to take it to like the next level you got to talk to someone because you can only do so much yourself and it's a lot of pressure to like grow yourself and to try and become a good person on your own do you you and brian socially like when you go out, are you both kind of like on equal footing? Or like, I'm a bit of an introverted guy myself. I like to go out, but, you know, I can be aloof and in my thoughts. Natalie, more the extrovert, more the bubbly kind of magnetic person. And there's a balance with kind of how we go out and how we interact

with people and like for example did you see j-lo and and ben at the grammys oh my god and it's like he did not want to be there he didn't want to be there but i actually saw i saw this tiktok of this girl who was like a seat filler there did you see that yeah i didn't see that and she was just talking about how it was a lot of fun and she was really nice but she ultimately was talking about how i guess ben like in the middle of the grammys ben knew he was a meme in the middle of the grammys like he was fully aware that it was already going around and he was being talked about all while the grammys was being filmed and like they were kind of talking about apparently joking about it whatever but i find i thought that was interesting because i feel like a lot of couples will get like

mad at their partner for like not living up to their like social expectations like why aren't you having fun why aren't you smiling oh my god blah blah like like shit like that like how how are you and brian about that you're a big personality uh how do you guys interact especially if your moods necessarily aren't in line with like whatever it is you're trying to do this is such an interesting question because it's a very big point of contention um he's definitely obviously more the introvert i don't know how much extroverted you could get other than me but we're like that's why i love him because we balance each other and sometimes but he could definitely take it off my plate like sometimes i'm exhausted i don't want to be like bubbly like at dinner he can do that he can take one but sometimes if he's not feeling it he is not feeling it he cannot

fake it and i'm like you know if it's like a work event or something i'm like i get really pissed off and i'm like at least just like and he doesn't want to so it's it's tough because he what if he it's not that he wants to what if he he can't? Well, I think everyone can. Sure. Do you think everyone can? Sure, anyone I think can do anything to a certain extent. But it- Does he want to?

It costs more emotional energy for some people than others. You know, some people like their tank is a lot less full, you know, or depletes a lot faster in social settings like it's true to oversimplify what it means to be an extrovert or an introvert is like when extrovert goes out and socializes it actually like energizes them it kind of feeds their spirit it fills their cup and an introvert's the literal opposite it depletes them so they'll go out and it's just like it's zaps the life out of. So they only have so much in their tank and once they're on empty, they're on empty.

But if they show up empty, it's like they'll get anxiety and their body will swell up. But for me, if you know your tank's empty, you don't show up. But have you expressed... Okay, so you're out with brian big event he's just like babe cup's empty i can't go you're like cool oh that's a good point now that

you say that i'm like well i guess i would be like no just come and fake it yeah and he's like i don't want to but he won't go like sometimes now like he knows how i'll get especially at events he like doesn't want to do work fence with me anyway how will you get well i'll get especially at events he like doesn't want to do work events with me how will you get well i'll get like buck up like you know like talk to these people like like be nice like and he'll and he'll be like this isn't fun for me because it's not i bet i would really get along with brian at a party oh my god you would love brian at a party we would just stand there not say anything kind of look at each other we would nod we would we would people watch someone that's how you do something and i would just like look at him and go that's how he is but he also taught me on the flip side that i don't need to be so social when i go out because i get drained because

i'm always talking to everyone everyone wants all my attention he also taught me like babe like you don't have to talk to every single person like sometimes people don't aren't worth it well that's fucked up sorry but sometimes like you don't have to people aren't worth it sometimes you don't have to give it up it's true some people aren't worth it it's just like i don't care and i don't need to give my energy my precious energy to everybody i'm learning that slowly as i grow up like i don't need to talk to every single person in the room and he taught me that because some people would be like brian's so standoffish he's so mean and brian like we get home brian was like i just didn't feel like talking to that person it was too much some people are too much i'm sure when i go up to people people are like whoa like he's way too

fucking much you know i got it got me here so i gotta like figure out the balance yeah you know can i ask you a question yeah we talk a lot about open relationships on this show yeah let's talk about it yeah and i have a lot of gay friends and offline uh my gay friends some of them will talk about uh how a lot of men in the gay community have there's like these it's a bit open sometimes and i never really talked about uh it online on a show and we talk we have a lot of heterosexual people nowadays exploring non-traditional relationships uh i think the topic of open relationships is fascinating because there's

this interesting level of communication and trust that comes with it you know because it really doesn't necessarily matter to me in terms of like sex means different things to different people yeah um but i i know i have a lot of gay friends in relationships who have some versions of open relationships and it seems to be talking to some of my gay friends like kind of a bad cap secret you know where it's like it's but no one really talks about it no one talks about it but i'll talk about it let's talk about it i love talking about this the thing is the first thing i want to say about open relationship like if you're in a long-term relationship girl boy heterosexual whatever any kind of relationship i'm sorry but if you think

you're having sex with the same person for like 20 plus years you are wrong that is boring and you have to spice things up and i'm all about it all right but you have to have the conversation with your partner and to be honest me and brian have that like we haven't really had that discussion together but we've had threesomes together. We've like hooked up with other guys together. Okay. Um, you know,

but you haven't talked about that. How does that work? I mean, it's weird. Cause we, and then like he goes to New York, like, I don't know.

There's grinder for gay guys. So you never know. Sure. Cause sometimes like, we'll like, you know, it's just, we'll have threesomes with other guys.

And like, and then we're like, I mean, I don't know what he's doing when I'm not there. My thing is this, you know it's just we'll have threesomes with other guys and like and then we're like i mean i don't know what he's doing when i'm not there my thing is this when you don't know what he's doing when you're not i trust that he's not doing anything but you never know because gay guys are gay guys and like you know people are people they're everywhere but you don't have to be gay to cheat you know well people are people that's true too but i don't really consider it cheap this is my thing cheating and hooking up with someone and getting off, like in the gay community, like, well,

for me at least, I don't want to speak for the gay community, but I'm horny, bitch. Like, I like to fuck and I want to be, but like, I like like some dirty, grimy shit. Like, I'm like, I'll fuck someone in the bathroom. I love stuff like that. I'm not going to lie. Yeah. But if that's, to me, it's not, I mean, this is, I'm very, very, I'm sure going to get me in trouble.

But to me, that's to me it's not i mean this is i'm very very i'm sure gonna get me in trouble but to me that's not cheating like i think that cheating is more like if you're gonna like be in a long term like you're like communicating all the time you're going out to dinner with someone behind my back you're texting someone sending them flowers in a relationship with someone to me that's fucked up but if you just want to like stick your dick in something and come and like with someone else to spice things up that's fine but i also think it you need an honest conversation about that yeah before you just start sticking your dick and everything and running around town and fucking lucy in the bathroom you know it's like you need to really no pun intended on lucy i hope that's not but like but like you know what i mean like you got to really have the conversation like be honest

like i did something in a hot tub with someone the other weekend and like i came and brian left early and it kind of happened like as he was leaving but he kind of knew and i told him i got my dick sucked in a hot tub okay and what did brian say he was like okay okay kind of now is that well this was right before we decided to sign up for therapy like one last hurrah well i don't know we'll unpack that in therapy don't worry about it i don't know but it was good because i feel like for me and for my sake if i'm gonna do that i don't want to be shady i'm not that type of person clearly like if you know i'm talking about everything right i always just tell people how it is and how I'm feeling. Sometimes it gets me in trouble, but it's who I am.

A slut. I think it's a bit, listen, I think it's 2023, relationships have drastically evolved and changed and people are like settling down later in life and marriage means a completely different thing than it meant 30 or 40 years ago you know the divorce rates you know high right and so i think people are exploring different ways to have long-term domestic partnerships while still you know serving their fantasies so you have to it's like i want

the same dick for 15 years but it seems seems like, yeah, like, but how can gay men, if this is something other heterosexual people want to explore? Because it seems like gay men specifically, it seems to be more prevalent and accepted as part of, it's like, it's not a thing. From a lot of my gay friends, I'll talk

about it with them. They're like, yeah, kind of like you said. I got my dick stuck in a hot tub, I told Brian. He was like, whatevs. And a lot of people would listen to that and go what huh let's let's go i got but like it's different i don't think it's a big deal yeah like it's but it's sure i know but it's like uh how did you guys get to that point like what is it about that like how did you guys decide that from for you that sex wasn't intimacy wasn't about the act of sex but more about because right because i feel like it's the intimacy that you don't want violated in your relationship but the sex you separate that almost in a way yeah i think i've gotten there i don't

know if brian i can't speak for how he feels about it but it's not just you too right but a lot of everybody like i think that that's how that's how it should be looked at but i'm also big in relationships just communication like a lot of girls like right on my amas every week and stuff like oh like um i feel this way about my partner how do i um what what do i do blah blah i'm like have a conversation always because if you can't have a conversation with your partner that's not your partner i'm sorry but like you need to be able to be open and honest with them and otherwise it's just it causes for more problems down the road you need to be able to be open and honest with them and otherwise it's just it causes for more problems down the road you need to figure out a way that's like communication which i think is why everyone needs therapy it comes back to that it teaches you how to like bring those things

up to your partner and how to like talk about it also if you're a pussy you can just bring it up in front of the therapist because then no one's gonna in front of the therapist no one's gonna act a fool why does that make you a pussy i don't know because people don't want to have it unless there's a third party well sometimes that's productive it's very productive you're just like so you know i could have waited for the therapist i don't have the energy to argue with you about this for 20 minutes let's just bring it up in therapy that's why therapy is also great you might as well get your money's worth anyways saves a lot of time like if i would have saved the dick in the hot tub story for the therapist it probably would have been great but brian was fine with it he was fine with it till the morning then we got

in a fight and then we signed up for therapy so he wasn't fine with it no not really but i was because i brought it up to him has he done anything that you originally been okay with and then suddenly weren't like when were the roles reversed i'm pretty chill like i'm pretty like so if he was like babe i got my dick sucked in hot i would be like word like as long as you're not his word i'm probably like work period bitch but for me i'm like honestly i think i just don't want you having a relationship with someone else. Don't bring him to dinner. Don't bring him on like an Erewhon date.

Like don't bring him hiking, running. It's like it has to be a one and done. What about like sending nudes? You find out that Brian's like sexting, texting someone. He met someone on Grindr and they're like, send me nudes. Would that feel more intimate or personal no nudes or news i love it draw the line between intimacy and sex just not open all the time communication with someone about things that aren't sex related like it's got to always

be about sex and it's got to be with different people you can't be having sex with the same person it needs to be different people all the time gotcha you can't be having sex with a different person that's the same person all the time you can't have like a fuck buddy on the side gotcha to me that's cheating but if you want to fuck a one-off and then that's good then that's good because and then never talk to them ever again but if we see them out in public and you fuck them you better tell me because don't embarrass me that's my, too, is do not embarrass your partner. Like, I think it's like, don't put me in a position to be embarrassed. Like, if you're having a conversation with someone behind my back, respect me.

And I am a public figure. You are. In the gay community, people do know me. It's like everybody in the gay community, not just me. Like, if you go on Grindr, if we're having a threesome, don't send a couple pic because it's gonna get back and it has gotten back and that's embarrassing yeah like people have dm'd me i'm like hey like um brian's on grant like it's been you know things happen you can't get away with anything nowadays technology yeah and like being in the gay community so that would hurt that feelings, Brian's on Grindr, more than... If he's doing it without me, I'll be pissed.

So you finding out that, say, Brian was on a date would bother you more than... If Brian was on a date, we wouldn't be in the same house after that. You can't go on a date, bitch. I would never do that to someone. I think we're on the same page with that, because we love each other so much. We love our date nights. We love our life together. think we're on the same page with that. Like, cause we love each other so much. Like we love our date nights.

We love our life together. But like, we're both two very horny men. I'm ready to go. You know, they call me big dick Joey. It's like, I gotta do my thing.

Sure. Yeah. And be out and about. I mean, gotta showcase it. Yeah. Yeah. I'd be a waste.

Yeah. I feel like my experience has been like, kind of within like the queer community like just there's a lot more like incestuous friend groups yeah and so i'm curious for you like how you because the things you were kind of describing about like more in the emotional affair category are also totally things you would do with your friends and so you have tea yes tell us to this tea tea please wait like incestuous friend groups like my best friends over it's late night,

and we're going to have a threesome type thing? Yeah, or just like we're like. Yeah, I'll have gay friends who are in a relationship, and then one of them will go out with the boys. And I get the sense that going out, they're like, we had so much fun. And I'm like, cool. But I get the sense from them that fun means something different than when

I'm out with the boys. Well, well, yeah, you never know that. But I did have, we did with like my best friend of 15 years, we ended up having a threesome recently, which was really a trippy experience. Did it change your friendship? Um, it didn't change the friendship, but cause I'm very chill about it. But for him, for my best friend he's like is everything okay i'm like everything is cool like it was like a one like no one feels anything

different and so like you know but you know we had dinner last week or we went we we spent the whole night together last saturday so like we're good it's just the other people they have to worry about because everyone's like is everything okay everything's fine it depends on who you're with some gay couples will invite a guy over and like get in a fight in front of you and it's like oh my god like i gotta get out of here we're not like that we're like one and done see ya okay everyone should be more open to the threesome thing as long as it's not gonna affect your relationship once it starts you think everyone being gay straight whatever are you open to having that be a conversation? I'm open to anything.

Yeah. I love the idea of any feeling is a valid feeling to have in a relationship. Me too. And I like the idea that we can bring up any fantasy, any feeling, any fear, any insecurity. And there's no promise that the person receiving the information about the feeling might, you know, might be awkward. It might be, it could be upsetting.

It could be anything. But like, there's this recognition that there's no wrong feeling and that we create a safe space to share it. And then we also create a safe space for the other person, you know, to express themselves as long as it's not reactive and as long as it's just a conversation and things like that. I love that idea.

Like how how real is that and how obtainable is that? I think is, you know, something that Natalie and I, you know, I think we attempt to have that type of relationship. And so I we liked talking in terms of our sex life we love talking about things and we can get pretty kinky when it comes to like things we talk about but like it's just fun because it's like we it's just it creates conversation it creates you know and even when we're not having sex it's not even like dirty talk we just like what about how do you feel about this how do you feel about that and so we have a lot of different types of conversations just to like you know it's like so that we're having so it feels real in a sense but yeah so but so it's

more about talking about it than actually executing on it at least at this point just so far just wait it all starts with a conversation sure we all thought we talked about stuff before too and then like here we are in miami having a threesome with god knows who and like you know in vegas after the adele concert of all places oh well i mean that makes sense yeah you know which was amazing by the way i highly recommend adele will touch your heart oh my god and push you into having a threesome later see that is fascinating to me because i think i think adele can do many things i do not necessarily associate her as like getting horned up yeah like or like even like an adventurous like i feel like adele makes me want

to be like held by someone and not try something new perhaps or like delve into something spicy i'm gonna blame this on adele because we were sitting in front row and like she's very interactive with her people and i'm very tall and i'm very like i was like a little drunk she was staring at us the whole time she was having so much fun with us she was laughing i went to the bathroom at one point and she looked at brian and she went in the microwave do you really want to be with him and like laughed at me and i came back and looked she looked at me she was like what the she's like where'd you go like she was talking to us the whole time. It was great.

Is this in Vegas? And this is in Vegas. And then, so that's why she like was talking about our relationship. She was getting, she was focused on us. And I'm not just saying that. Brian knows that too. And she made our night.

Cause we were like having fun with each other the whole time. So yeah, she made us horny. And of course we went out. She was talking about our relationship, having fun. She made you feel so special. She made us feel special. So, you know, know naturally to what extent do you feel like you identify with kind of like main character energy because i feel like that's a big topic of conversation on tiktok and i feel like as an influencer so much of your life is like knowing that people are invested in you and

the things that you do and the content you create so like where's that kind of balance for you between allowing yourself to be the main character without taking it too far i don't know how to not take it too far girl i don't know you guys gotta watch the show too because i i think when it comes to main character energy i have no idea i just in myself but it seems to come off very you know it's a lot joey is a lot and i can't help it um but i gotta love myself because it's all i can do so i mean i try to just be like as down to earth and like humble and stuff like that but when it comes to like main character energy i don't even know what that means because i feel like i give a lot to like my audience online like my content i'm very so i just try and like be me i don't know i'm learning I'm in a learning process about

myself right now I'm in a whole new like you know watching yourself on TV for the first time is very daunting is this your first time on TV it's my first time on TV ever and I was like I'm just gonna go on and be myself and I'm like oh yeah I didn't yeah it's my first your heart

my heart is very I'm excited because this is what something like this was like a bucket list item i'm like i'm on mtv reality show like this is dope so i'm trying to just be excited and not let the haters the comments have just it's funny because like it's like a regular tv show it's like it comes out every friday at 9 p.m so then people start binging and people are really starting to watch it now. So I'm getting floods of comments and stuff. But I'm just still, I gotta stay proud.

I can't let the haters take this away from me. They don't know who you are. No. People who watch reality TV literally watch it to feel better about themselves. That's what it feels like. So I'm trying- They're there to judge you. Yeah.

You are giving yourself to the audience to judge you both positively and negatively and the the danger is the positive comments yeah because anytime you read the oh joey's so hot what a king what a queen whatever and you're like fuck yes i'm amazing and then the next day you read a negative comment. It's so crazy. You've already validated that you will listen to strangers. Yeah. And so the good or the bad, it doesn't really make a difference. And the second you respond to someone or you like tell them,

they know that you're looking at it. Oh, so then it goes, they flood. I did that mistake. Like the first week the show came out, I like responded to one thing and then people started making reactions and people said it was crazy. Quoting david's book who who who so generously wrote a blurb for

my book wrote in her book uh any response to the internet no matter how sane it sounds is insane and that's that's life advice i've been living by it's true you can't win with the internet have you guys heard of boyfriend air? Oh my God. Yeah. Of what? I heard about that last night. And I was like, this explains everything. So it's on TikTok. And basically people are talking about, I think it's a lot of like women who date men

are basically being like, there is something about the air in my boyfriend's apartment. Whenever I stay with him, like my skin freaks out. My hair is greasy. Like I just like look worse when I exist in that space. He needs a shower way more. Like you become a seven or something in your boyfriend's apartment. Oh, like a straight guy's apartment. I asked Natalie about this and she was like, she thought about it.

She's like, maybe, you know, like, cause it seemed insane to me. But like, you think there's something there oh like the navy blue like itchy sheets that haven't been washed i talk to people about the boys sheets so much like it's like the you know what i'm talking about i mean i've been to like a few straight guys apartments in my day and i have been i've been to a few straight guys apartments in my day so i know by that joey like I've hooked up with straight guys and been to their apartments are they straight then or are they disidentified if you saw the navy blue sheets in the apartments

you would know they were straight bitch in the sink with the things and the boyfriend there well that's the thing it's like when have the sheets been washed that's gonna affect your acne the bathrooms are always gross like I remember dating people where I was like where is your face wash I need to wash my face and they were like I don't wash my face like absolutely and i was like what am i supposed

to do there's like dove hand soap and like my boyfriend didn't have chapstick like last like well like that's insane to me that i'm at your house last weekend and there's nothing there no not even like vaseline that's nothing to me yeah Oh my god no Vaseline in the house Like even for any kind of other reason Not even like a coconut oil something He must have had something Some moisturizer I mean I'm not gonna put lube on my lips

Oh hey He uses lube You never know You say that like that's like a weird freaky thing I find lube to be do you use lube no oh so it's a gay thing it's like i mean i've used spit before it's like not good on the skin i find it to be an irritant you're very sensitive though you don't even use deodorant i have sensitive skin i also think like coconut oil it really does like i love coconut oil bitch

one time we didn't have lube and like someone came over and we were having a threesome and we had to use coconut spray like the coconut literally like pam olive oil just literally like coated my dick with like the the coconut spray and then everything smells like now the moment you're like i don't even give a fuck oh i didn't care i just was like rummaging there like when you're done it's like the whole scene goes through your head in slow motion of you just well it was one of those continuous sprays so you just like that's better if it was a pump that would have really killed the mood oh my god i think that the the spray in general killed the mood because it was like For cooking purposes and he was like what the fuck

I was like well it's all we got honey And then you permanently have like or for me like I permanently Have the association with the smell where like whenever I smell coconut I'm like oh my god like Pavlovian oh yeah So back to boyfriend exactly Like oh yeah is this a good thing or a bad thing It's a bad thing well but like

Does that is there a way that Does it tell you that like you like him like how much are you there to be impacted by boyfriend yeah because like going over to a guy's house yeah like you know it's not and correct me if i'm wrong but my understanding is it's like okay you have you're on your second date he's like come up to my place you're watching some late night television maybe something happens maybe something doesn't as are you being affected by boyfriend air then or no i think it's when you routinely like sleep there yeah you have to sleep there yeah because your whole routine is off then your face is touching the pillowcase you don't have your

normal products you're being affected series of dating where it's like i feel like a lot of people in situationships are getting boyfriend aired maybe i luckily get to avoid boyfriend air as a dog mother so i just get to peace out but yeah you're just hitting quitting what do you mean well it's like i can't sleep there oh you gotta be back for the dog that's so true bye now are you using would you want to stay there or is the dog an excuse because the thought of kiki sleeping in the apartment by herself in the darkness wondering where mommy went for like let's say i'm taking care of kiki kiki's at my house for whatever reason we're chilling she's fine oh okay she's fine you're

on a hot date then i would if she was fine i'd probably stay you'd want to stay yeah if the date was i don't know i mean like a lot of guys if like they had the option would want them to leave or stay would want to go yeah what do you think why do you think that is like do you think it's the idea of like implying that you're looking for something more like serious because of like the emotional intimacy of seeing someone in the morning i mean you know as a when i was single i was very self-conscious even before i was in any type of limelight i just i don't want to lead anyone on you know i was very up front with like even before we had

hooked up of like where my head was at of what this was. So like, I wasn't a mixed signal guy. Like I, you know, no one ever could accuse me of love bombing ever. Like that's good to be accusing of other things. Maybe, I don't know, but definitely not the love bombing. It would be like, even if that meant I was cold or a dick or whatever what you didn't think is i i would never try to use uh emotions and feelings to get laid uh that's better than leading someone on you know like or like trying to like cuddle for the night because then it gives people the wrong impression yeah and then they wonder why they get ghosted because you know like i've i've done like i've had people over in the past and i've looked because, you know. Like I've done like, I've had people over in the past

and I've looked around my, you know, apartment at the time and I'm more messy than filthy, but I'm not tidy at all. And I've looked around and I'm like, fuck it. Like I don't pick up or clean or wash my sheets or even put the sheets on. You know, it's just more like I don't need her to fall in love with me. Yeah. Like, you know what I'm saying? If she leaves with a bad impression, worst thing.

You know, I've deliberately not picked up because I've just like, I don't I don't want to. I'm not trying to like impress her. You know, trying to get any action because I walked in and there was no sheets on the bed i'm not sure i'd be like really i feel like that'd be kind of hot like i mean listen i i'm not saying that i have never picked up i guess what i'm saying is when i have the thought of like yeah it's just more like we all know what's gonna happen you'll get over it whatever you would pick up for the right girl or the right person if I like them but if you like them but if it's just a head anything there was a hookup it was like you know like we maybe we had hooked up before

you know whatever it was if it was just like we kind of understood that there was a hookup and and maybe it was early on in dating and even though despite my upfrontness, it was like we didn't really talk about defining the relationship, but we were just like it's a second date or something, or a third date, and we just really haven't got into it.

And I'm thinking to myself, this is a nice person, cute person, I'm attracted to this person, maybe I want to hook up with this person, but I'm pretty sure I don't see it going anywhere. I would just- Say fuck it. I would, I just don't put in the extra effort

that I would otherwise put in. Well, maybe that's a good tip for people. Even if she thinks like less of me, it's like, I think a lot of straight men do stuff, versions of that. They definitely do. Where they, you know, they're not trying for a reason they definitely do yeah on the other side of things if you are with someone like you're

dating someone in the early stages who you do like and you do potentially like see things going somewhere down the line with how long do you wait before you let them see you like really like uncooked raw like most busted vulnerable version of you like looks wise like when like the first time i don't even know what that means like like will you see them like a raw like for girls i feel like my most busted look is pretty still damn good well you and that's awesome congratulations that's amazing he's like i fucked her without sheets because i didn't want her to fall in love with me and i've never looked busted because I just always look great. And I'm Nick Viall.

I see how this sounds. Yes. Okay. Well, I don't wear makeup, you know? Like, what if my hair is- But you can look bad. Like, even like breath. Like, when are you going to be able to have her smell your breath without brushing before?

Yeah, that's a good thing. Because my breath is rank in the morning sometimes it's probably rank right now i don't even know but you have to wait i i that that i'm self-conscious about that i am always i i you can think i'm messy but i don't want you to think i have a foul breath there you go so when where is it when in the relationship do i get so comfortable that i yes i i am not so self-conscious that i don't wake up and brush my teeth or you know you're not like vigilant i'm not vigilant okay yeah uh a while how about you joey going and having like toxic like when once i got out of the toxic relationship stuff

i was like fuck it i'm just gonna let i'm a very messy person i i'm like i live like a straight guy it's bad i mean now we don't because it's like different, you know, it's different. But like, I like to now just show people who I am up front. I'm like, fuck it. This is me. I'm going to wake up. You're going to turn over and probably be like, yeah, like I could look pretty scary. Let's be real.

Like, or like after a hangover, after like a one night stand. But I feel like it's good to show people who you are up front because you want them to love you in every aspect. My advice to everyone is to show people who you are up front because you want them to love you in every aspect. My advice to everyone is to show people who you are up front. Like even if you're a crazy bitch, like just show them up front because you want people to know that you're unhinged up front. People try and be so much of like somebody that they're not for somebody else. And they're working so hard to get this person's approval and to get this person's love. And they work so hard.

Then they find out either like the person doesn't really love them because they find out that they're finally who they are. Like it's sad. Because then you get to a point you waste all this time trying to get someone's approval. And then at some point they're just not going to like you anyway. Immediate therapy. Immediate therapy. Right. Like for non-therapistsists what are like things that would

immediate therapy pretend like i mean i feel like just like seeking validation from people sure it's like a hard thing i think like a lot of people do that for significant others they just want to try everyone should be in there they try and mold into that person's life and be a part of that person's life and be like instrumental in that person's life and then you get to the point it's like you find out they don't you know you love them but they don't love you oops it's true it's sad because i see that with a lot of my girlfriends like they will shape shift their whole life for this guy and like try and fit into their world but then they get to a point where they realize the guy hasn't done anything to fit into their world so they lose their world.

But they haven't asked or they haven't let them. Well, yeah. I mean, exactly. It's the self-worth thing. They haven't worked on themselves a lot. I think you get in the best relationships where you focus on loving yourself, where you don't have to get validation from a guy. You don't have to mold into their life. You're like, wait, this guy needs to mold into my life because I have a great life too.

It's not just like I'm going to go and just be with him all the time i see that with my girlfriends way too often and it's sad because then you like i said you get to a point you're like i love you so much but you don't love me and you realize this person's never going to give you the attention but lo and behold you've dropped your whole life to be a part of their life and now you don't have a life of your own and you have to rebuild from zero which isn't a bad thing because you learn so much about yourself and it makes you stronger but it's scary because i see that happen with my girlfriends you get to a point and you just have nothing left because you've just been involved in their life the whole time what are some other things that like as a gay man you feel like you observe and like your straight

friends yeah like about their relationships or tendencies straight guys are scared yeah like what don't you get about straight people oh what don't i get about straight people there's so many things like what notes do you have oh my god you guys i mean for one i just think that you know the guy girl dichotomy is, should be way easier than it is. And I think the people that make it the most difficult are sometimes the guys and not the girls. And sometimes it is the girls. And I think at the end of the day,

it's just the communication. But I think there's too many like cross signals all the time with straight people. Like just tell them how you fucking feel. Text them and like, like call it a fucking day, you know? Stop with the whole like, what should I do if he's not

doing if he's not fucking me good and i'm not getting an orgasm like tell him get a dildo work things out in the bedroom like there's lack of communication in straight relationships period yeah do you feel that way about like queer women it's like the lines of communication are a lot more open because you guys are just more familiar with each other's needs like yeah and i also find like for me, it's like I can't default to gender roles in the same way where if I'm dating a man, there's certain ways, and I think sometimes it's very conscious,

sometimes it's just subconscious, where it's just these learned beliefs about men versus women that influence the way I behave. And then with queer women, it's like someone needs to initiate. We can't just both be like, pick me. There can be too much bottom energy. There kind of just needs to initiate. Like we can't just both be like, pick me. Like, you know, like there can be too much like bottom energy.

Like there kind of just needs to be like that balance. It's not bottom energy. But when you were saying that, I was like, do straight people all have bottom energy in a certain way? Where it's like there's kind of this like aloof standoff. Yes. Oh, my God. Straight people have bottom energy. Oh, my God.

You're giving bottom energy. Tell me more. Actually, you give top energy. How? What? Just explain. Like manly. Like, i don't know like deep boy like like i'm gonna fuck you like i don't know like that's how i come across like yeah like like assertive like you know what you're about to say you know what you want yeah i got a lot of comments saying i have bottom energy but i'm not about them i mean i will bought it like

it's i'm not like either i'm like i'll call myself verse but i've always been like any top do you guys think i get bottom energy what is yeah no i feel like patrick says no bitch no i don't think that's no but people watch the show and they're like this bottom bot i've seen like hundreds of comments like so it's being called a bottom like the same as being called a pick me no no but you say it like it's a negative thing can i ask you guys what is a pick me uh a pick pick me choose me love me oh yeah it's like a willingness to kind of correct me if i'm wrong but a willingness to essentially kind of do anything for validation you're not really speaking your mind or asserting your expectations and you're certainly not even thinking about boundaries it's just about i've decided i like this person and from going forward all i really

care about is do they like me do they validate me like they're your needs or what your perceived happiness and relationship is all about being uh liked but not feeling loved. I also feel like adding on to that I think there's like a specific implication of like the whole I'm not like other girls embodiment of like a pick me girls kind of like. I love girls that say that because they're always the ones that are just like other girls like the girls are like I'm gonna

watch football like I have one girlfriend she's like oh we're watching football like like I'm gonna be such a girl like these other girls don't really watch football like like oh like what you guys should go watch like your reality shows or whatever and i'm like girl no one's gonna like you more because you're like a football watching like you're not different and the girls are like i'm more of a guy's girl but like has no straight guy friends like i don't know yeah and it's like the implication is kind of that you're like putting down other women.

And I really think of it as like in a protest, like you're a scab. Like you're crossing the union line. Like you're like, oh, like I actually I'm so chill with XYZ kind of thing. I don't get why other girls are like so high key about this in an area where it's like, no, maybe that's something that like people have a real point. We're like kind of moving towards having a conversation about something that's kind of fucked up. And you're like, wait, that doesn't bother me. Like, she's crazy.

Yeah. towards having a conversation about something that's kind of fucked up and you're like wait that doesn't bother me like she's crazy yeah let me give you a piece of advice for all the guys out there and the girls if anyone has to tell you how chill they are or they try and make a point like oh that doesn't bother me no problem i'm all good let me just tell you that is going to be the biggest red flag you'll ever see and you should run for the fucking hills unless you like a crazy bitch because they are crazy period Period. Locker room talk. Oh, God, the locker. Hold on, bear with me here. Okay. When I say locker room talk, you thought guys.

You thought... Like worst nightmare. But I think as a gay man, you get access to conversations with straight women about straight men. Is it true or false true yeah very true and i believe that uh well maybe different in its own way that women have their own version of locker room talk that can be just as crass of course and just as raunchy and and sometimes even in more honest and more open because there i think women are more comfortable with sharing more insecurities and vulnerabilities about themselves and their

partners than men are and mine are more like you know like a fuck her like yeah you know they're not really like hey like this did you did you notice this but like either way, I think they can be crass and raunchy. And is this true? Is a gay man who's had access to locker room talk for women or conversations with straight women about their male partners, do you have any insight? Does this happen? What's going on? Oh oh girls get raunchy with

the locker room talk when they talk about like it's more i feel like some of my girls are like yeah like he fucked me and like oh he had like the smallest dick and it was disgusting and he didn't even like make me come and it was like oh he couldn't get off and like he got off for five seconds i knew this shit happens i know no it's like worse like i was at dinner with my friend chaconis the other night and she was like oh like uh this guy she's like dating him right now so she was like i'm dating him right now um i was like so how's this she was like so let's we dove right into sex there was no like emotionally he makes me feel this way it was right into sex she's like the only problem is like i found like viagra and his um and his cabinet right before we were about to have sex and then we did it and she was like it was

like for five hours and she's like i'm more of like a 20 30 minutes i need to get in and get out and like get an orgasm and go but he didn't even give me an orgasm and i was he was fucking me for five hours and then she like brought and it was like five hours like i think sex should be like i mean i'm good with like 10 minis and like let's bounce like i don't need it to be like passionate so i felt really bad because she was like it's most people worry about like how it's too quick and whatever but no nowadays it's like she doesn't want a good 10 15 minute session that's all you need yeah that's all you need i think longer than that is like i don't want that it all depends but i think you can have some good foreplay and some good sex in about 15 minutes and it's a that's efficient sex it's

not really date night sex and it's not really embracing each other and really trying to connect but yeah yeah but still valuable yeah still feel like it's it's not yes it's not you know but i think girls locker room talk is very crass more than guys I can assume because girls really want to talk about the sex at all. Like I think I think a lot of men will be blown away by some of the shit that women talk about with each other about men. Oh, yeah. Because I mean, when you're having sex, like the guy has a lot, you know, like, you know, there's there's a lot to live up to for the guy, for the girl. Like you got to get hard. You got to stay hard. You got to fuck her. You got to give her an orgasm. You got to come.

Like, so, like, you know, the girl is expecting a lot. Rightfully so. Like, she wants to make sure it's good. So, period. Okay. I guess in sync with your knots. All right. Anyway.

Okay. So, because, like, you're someone who gives such amazing advice on TikTok and also the show you're on is all about like friendship. We want to play a game called Real Friend where we just like run some scenarios by you and you just like let me know like what does a real friend do in this situation? How do they handle it? How do they navigate it? Oh, this is going to be a good game.

Okay. So first one like really kind of gets to what we were talking about earlier with like energy levels. But if you are like utterly like exhausted, depleted in a really bad bad headspace but it's your friend's birthday dinner what does a real friend do you go and you show up and you put a fucking smile on you have a martini make your day better and you know just show up for your friends my thing is you always show up for a friend no matter what i'd show up yeah you show up no matter what fuck it like wake up but I mean I definitely that is a pivotal moment for me to

evaluate the friendship oh yeah I mean if people it's like do I really need to go how close are we can I send you like I'll take you to coffee yeah if I'm not close with you it's like I don't know I love like not showing but if

if I make a commitment though i go yeah okay if you get invited to like an event that you know your friend really wanted to get invited to but they didn't get an invite you have no plus one do you tell them or do you just wait for them to see it on social media like what does a real friend do in that situation i would tell a real friend would tell them because i think it's fucked up to do that or i would just like force them to come with me you always have a plus one if people want you there but if it's something like very intimate like a grammy type thing or something like of course you show them you tell them you don't just show them on social media that goes with everything you don't want

anyone to find out anything before you tell them on social media because i think that's a shitty way to go about life because it just makes other people feel shitty so just be upfront and honest not enough people are upfront and honest nowadays i'm just gonna say it they're not some people can call me drama on the show but at least i was bringing up stuff like other people would be like oh it's fine and then no one said shit we'd sit down with cameras around us and we're like i'm like so what about this and they'd be like nothing it's okay i'm like 10 minutes ago you were like yelling and i hate that shit just be honest everyone okay yeah do you think it's like just because of like the way we're holding people to a lot higher standards what accountability can look like

is sometimes like one mistake and you're done yes yes everyone's afraid of being canceled everyone's afraid that it's like a one and done but you can't be you can't go around life living that way you have to just say fuck it if you're gonna get just be yourself that's all you can do and life is a lot easier when you just realize you're kind of fucking crazy and that's okay okay if your friend asks to borrow like 10 i don't know in an exact number but like let's say like ten thousand dollars like an amount that is like significant you might have on hand and they don't like but you can afford yeah it's a significant amount that you can't afford you know that if they didn't pay you back like ultimately it would be fucking annoying and you could use it but you're you don't need it like you're not leveraging

necessarily yourself okay but it's a it's a real amount of money okay and they're like i can't tell you i need it but like i please trust me that i do need it like what do you do it depends on the friendship level you guys i you have to tell me i would i would i would never give someone i mean like if it was your best friend they would have to tell you and if they weren't telling you they're not that close a friend can i ask you guys a really quick story something really fucked up that happened to me my best friend at 12 years went on a ski trip. And the best thing about it, I love letting people borrow my stuff. It's one of my things.

And I used to work with Louis Vuitton all the time. So I had this Louis Vuitton shearling jacket, one of my favorites. It's no skin off my back. I let him borrow it as part of his ski trip stuff. I kept asking for a certain stuff back. And he would give me some Ferragamo stuff back. And this jacket, I was like, I need it back. I went to lunch with his roommate who lived with him at the time.

And I was like, hey, like I need like it's so weird. I want this jacket. I was like, babe. And he showed me this like Depop like he had sold it. It's my best friend of 12 years who sold the fucking Louis Vuitton jacket. It's a $5,000 jacket. He sold it for $2,500. And it's something that's been like looming in my head because it broke my heart it felt i you know

and then we didn't talk i i asked him about it and i was trying to not bring it up i was like i need the jacket back after i found out he was like it's at my i think it's at my parents i'm going to new york next week let me look still didn't get back so finally i was like listen i need my jacket back tomorrow if you can't find it maybe you can buy me a new one on depop which is petty but i still haven't. I kind of love that. I don't feel like that's petty at all. That's not petty.

That's kind. He gave me this, a thumbs up emoji, and we haven't talked since. And like, I saw him at a party the other weekend, and we just, it wasn't the time,

and I'm just not in the headspace. But my question is. Why didn't you confront him? Because my friend asked me not to at their birthday party, whose birthday party it was, and was like, don't confront him when you're there.

I don't want drama. So I was like, okay, I won't. Okay, fine. But like, immediately when you get home so this is where i'm gonna ask you guys because for me right now the friendship's dead this happened seven months ago i haven't he hasn't been to my 30th birthday party he hasn't been to any of my like premiere stuff like nothing so my thing is this the friendship's dead because when someone sells an item of your fucking clothing behind your back i'm sorry that's insane because you know what

you're doing there was pictures there was a description like when someone does that to you it was a photo of you wearing like basically but like tags inside that's why it's hurtful do you get the money back even though it was only twenty five hundred dollars and he sold it for it was a five thousand dollar jacket or do you just move on never talk to him again or do you confront him and say i know what you did by the way like this is why we have you know what you did well doesn't he kind of know because you said you can buy one on depop yeah but why the fuck i have an apology this is easy okay what's the answer yeah you absolutely confront him because like this is a meaningful person in your life and and it's really not about the the money or the jacket even though it's annoying and frustrating

and disappointing but like it's what it signifies he violated your trust he went behind your back lied about it the whole time you're thinking this is insane what is going on like how why and how could you do this so i think you need to confront someone just to express yourself and just get it out you know you just got to be like this hurt my feelings that you did this why did you do this i don't know if you're going to get an answer from him that is satisfactory to you but like just being able to ask the question, I think you'll find therapeutic as far as like, and then I would just let it go. If he pays you back.

Great. If not, he's never, well, he's such a, but like, I don't think you like, I don't,

don't latch onto the jacket or the emotional energy. Maybe you buy yourself something nice. Treat yourself as a way to like, make yourself feel better. Maybe it's that same jacket. I don't, or whatever it is, but like, i think express yourself but let it go forgive them and the sense of like don't every week be like you owe me a fucking jacket you owe me because that just keeps

you emotionally invested and tied into like what you did i would never do that but i think you're right i think i need for myself am i like you got to say something oh mental i need to confront it yeah be like i know you did it it hurt my feelings expect someone that does that to you to like why haven't you apologized yet why have you not said one word so it's almost just like you're even this is the same person who actually sold your shit on depop so like you're trying to like rationalize that's true and there might be a reason and maybe there's some like hurt or pain whatever that he needs to process but like a rational explanation for irrational act is often not what you get you're right because this is this is not a justification at all just a potential like explanation but i

wonder if like especially because you know with like the show and like you've just had i think a huge increase in like visibility and success recently and so i wonder if it's like a form of like well he doesn't need the money like this was before the show but this was like seven months ago there's no way he thought you were like giving it to him right no that's the thing it wasn't like a present there's no way in the world that he would have thought that i was giving it to him because it was very like you can borrow these for skiing everyone knew that was my favorite shit happens more often than people i bet there are people listening like story. That's why my biggest advice is also get your shit back from your friends if they borrow it.

Remember it, because people forget. People come in my closet, because I have a room as a closet in my house, and people come and they just take shit all the time. That's why I only have my good friends at my house. I would confront them. So I gotta confront. It's about you confronting.

I would limit your expectations for what you will receive as an answer. This is just about you saying what you need to say to them. It's just something I need to, that I've been thinking about again lately, even though it happened seven months ago. I'm going through a whole like friendship transition right now. So I think it's something that-

Maybe you just like write it. Cause like, I think it's more about you getting it out there rather than- Oh yeah. Maybe I should just write it in like a text is that pussy after i don't think so go ahead yeah i was just gonna say we do have like a texting office hours caller soon but i feel like we could also do a little bonus like craft that text yeah i would live for that okay let's craft a listener's text let's see if craft yours and then we'll craft a text I have one for you while she comes up like your best friend

cheating on their partner what does a real friend do what do you do this is so fucked up I mean it's not your responsibility you can't get involved in that what would you do well however like do you believe do you think

do you think your friend's a good person? No. You don't? Then why are you friends with them? I don't know. This is really difficult. Good people can do bad things. I think everyone makes mistakes.

Okay, sure. Everyone can make a mistake. I'm all down for that. But you have to, when you make a a mistake always take fucking ownership for it and people that can't take ownership for their mistakes that's the red flag okay so your friend your friend is making this mistake you find out that there are cheating on their partner whatever cheating means to you you have decided you know that your partner knows that they're cheating right maybe it's not about sucking dick in the hot tub but like you know they're emotional cheating oh they need to they need to nix it i

would be like you need to cut it off now or it's just you're only hurting yourself that that's all you do you would go and tell the husband tell the boyfriend uh not at first no i would say to my friend i would say some version of like listen like I think what you're doing is fucked up. I believe in you. I think you're a good person. This is not the person I became friends with. And like, I think you need to tell them. And I know that sucks and you're going to be really mad at me, but like you need to

tell them and I'll be here for you and I'll support you and like whatever you need to do. But like, if you don't, I will. So like you got like 48 hours. See, I would do everything until that if you don't I will because at some point if they're gonna do this you have to just distance yourself from that person because it's not gonna well I mean again like it comes down to like I think sometimes people again that to me that's like being a friend that's like holding you know I'm not just gonna quit on

my friend because I think they're going through it you know or whatever it is that's that's what's what's happening to them and so if I truly believe that this friend of mine who I've invested and gotten to know and believed in and thought they were like had good character and like trusted with things that I, you know, needed to vent to them and I realize they're making some like harmful and toxic and destructive decisions, not only to them, but the people around them. I would want to believe that they are capable of doing the right thing and they're stuck and they need someone who's willing to hold them accountable for the character that I believe or hope that they have.

And that includes fessing up and being honest and making amends and all that shit. Because I don't think being a good friend is lying for your friends and covering up. No, no, no. I'll be loyal. I'll have your back. We'll bury bodies together.

But I care about my friend's character. And to me, that's being a friend. I agree with that. I think just I wouldn't want to be friends with someone that couldn't fess up like i don't like that shit i don't like sometimes you need a boost i would make my friend fess up and i guess you're right like at the end of the day i mean the hope is you're scaring him to the point where it's like if you don't i will so that they you hope that they do that you know you hope that you won't have to be the one to go to the spouse or whatever

and be like and yeah if it got to the point where they're like i'm just not going to fuck it then i would be like all right fine you're not who i thought we were i would kind of take a break from the friendship until they did i would then i would i would if i realize that my the person i thought i was is not the didn't have the character that i thought they had this is going to be very controversial because a lot of people it'll be interesting to see what. I'm right and everyone else is. There's this, I'm sorry. Like, if you really care about, it all depends. What if you don't like the boyfriend?

It's not about the boyfriend. It's about your friend's character. I would just hope my friend would fess up. Because I'm all about fessing up. Everyone fucks up. You guys just, like, even in the jacket situation, like, or the cheating situation. Like, if you just tell me that you did something to me wrong i can usually get over it and like you wouldn't justify not telling the boyfriend or the girlfriend or whatever just because you don't like them because if you knew

that it would hurt them well i probably have to listen let's be real like i probably have to tell them because that's just i can't really keep anything in and i don't like when people are i'm like a very i have a big heart guys I don't like when people are like hurt and if I felt like someone was being hurt or I felt like my friend's character was on the line you're right if that's what it took fine okay period

period okay let's do our get to our caller and then we'll draft Joey's text to his friend afterwards how's it going hello what's your name i'm sophia and i'm 31 years old how can we help sophia so i recently cut things off with a situation ship and he's reaching back out and i want some help figuring out why. Okay. Okay. Why do you care about why? That's a good question. I like him. And I think in my mind, there's curiosity if things have changed on his end. And I think that's kind of in the back of my

mind where i've tried to draw boundaries and because he keeps reaching out there's like that piece of me that's like huh has you know has anything changed uh have you asked him that i haven't okay uh how did why why why uh like walk me through just give me the cliff notes on the situation ship but I'd love a little detail on what brought you to the point of ending it and what you said to him to end it yeah um okay I'll do my best to keep it short so we met about a year ago on a dating app, dated for a few months, maybe like three months. And after those few months, I felt him pulling away. And so I asked him pretty directly what was going on. And he expressed that he felt like I wanted more, which I did, and that he just didn't want to be in a

relationship and blah, blah, blah. So we didn't chat for a while. I said, I respect that. Thanks for communicating that. We didn't chat for a while, but then throughout the year would check in on each other every few months if we both travel a lot. So if we were in the same city, we would meet up, get drinks, sometimes hook up. And after this was earlier last year, like fall last year, I was going to be in the same town as him, but I let him know that I didn't think it was going to be a good idea to see each other because you said i'm going to be in town but we shouldn't see each other i did because hi why did you let him know you're going to be in town because he knew i was going to convince you to change your mind no if it sounds to me he knew but why did you reach out talked about it oh you

talked about it prior that's how he knew you were we had talked about it knew but why did you reach out talked about it oh you talked about it prior that's how he knew you were we had talked about it prior and so did you remind him but you reminded him that you were like hey i did the way you tell the story to me it sounds like deep down what you like you wanted to be like hey i'm gonna be in town but i don't think we should be together but you didn't tell him that or i don't think we should meet up but you did not tell him to set a boundary you told him so he could convince you why you were wrong and you told yourself that was a way to see if he gives a shit about me perhaps perhaps yeah okay yeah i mean deep down probably wanted him to say something else, right? Then to just be like, okay. So that happened. Then we were going to be in the same city again. We'll often just check in with each other and just see where we're going to be. And then most recently saw him in the same

city, but we just kept it friendly, just went out to dinner and talked about, you know, the past, what had happened and just trying to keep things friendly and not crossing a boundary into more than just being friends. And since then we've texted, essentially he's texted and kind of reached out and I've kind of just let him know where I was, but haven't really said anything. In the text messages that you have, there was like one exchange where it was my attempt of him getting somewhat crossing the friend line and me attempting to remind him that that's not what we're doing now. And it was pretty flirty. And he then was like, okay, I respect your boundary. I'm not trying to confuse you.

And kind of just left it at that. I hearted his message. And then yesterday he reached out and was like, hey, how long are you going to be in X city? So I responded with the kind of, you know, playful response back. And he was like, hey, don't be mean to me. And I essentially want some help figuring out what to say back to him to understand why are you reaching out and also help, I guess, further drawing the boundary. What is it about him? Is it the sex? Dick-dicted? Yeah, I mean, that's great. We live similar lifestyles. We get along super ball. We have

a good time. Yeah. There's a lot about him that I really value. And I like aside from him, not expressing, not wanting a relationship. This last, like, is it him who said, Hey, don't be mean to me. Yeah. So you think you can come out. So do you think it's him or do you think it's the comfort level that he gives you to have someone and not having to try and kind of restart go back on dating apps find another guy like because i get it it's like it's always nice when you find someone it's easy and it's comfortable because he's right there so you have to also think about like is it him or is it just the you know convenience of having someone without having

to restart all over again that's a big deal that's a big thing to think about too you know it's like you can't let being like lonely make you reconnect with someone who's possibly toxic and who who you don't really see yourself with because i think deep down you know that this probably isn't going to be your person or you would you know it's just nice to have the comfort level for some people i think i hate this guy by the way i've been reading me too i have to tell you i'm sorry i read the text message i'm like i can't and that's why i asked the comfort level girl because you yeah okay already i already love you like he just is like the text or just do a dramatic reading let's see yeah who wants to be who

joey who do you want to be i'll be him oh you'll be him yeah uh what's this year looking like no that's oh yeah okay yeah right yeah do you want to start from the very beginning or is there a point that feels yeah where do we want to enter this what's the year looking like uh for you do you think that's his opener after how much time weeks well after this i'm going to blank for a couple days before going back to blank for week mid-december xmas and my parents very detailed girl yeah december through february la march he asked about your calendar and you fucking told him you gave him basically the screenshot of the damn thing like we are in la from march april and then after that your guess is as good as mine.

You basically said, I'm available, whatever you want, whatever you need, I'm here. Here's my itinerary. That was giving available, honey. Where can you fit me in? You were like, listen, your guess is as good as mine. It could be with you if you invite me to come see you. You might have well said, it doesn't matter,

where can you fit me in? Yeah. Oh, God. Anyways, he wrote, fun, fun, fun. Come say hi when you're here. Definitely, I'll let you know when I'm there, and I'll see you around say hi when you're here definitely i'll let you know when i'm there and i'll see you around this is after if you're around what boundary did you try to set before i think the boundaries comes later net give it no she said she already had set this

boundary and this is him reaching back out girl this is not boundary giving this is like i will be there and i'll let you know this guy does not sound like he even knew that you try to set a boundary at some point well let's keep going he says we can say say the ice cream pie i want to hear we can eat ice cream and get naked and have lots of fun with a emoji of like i'm just a guy who like like a shrub you go very i should probably keep my clothes on but we can still have fun and eat ice cream girl Like a shrub? That wasn't me talking. That was my penis. I should probably keep my clothes on, but we can still have fun and eat ice cream.

Girl. It's like he's not going to win it. No fun, he says. Pourquoi? What? He's French now? I know I'm boring now. I've just learned a lot.

I'm not out of it. You're not boring. You just don't want to be his sex slave. Yeah. You just like to keep him on that like one little inch of a leash and then hopefully it's not one inch but that little like one inch of the leash and you want to like let it you know i know what you're doing uh i know i know i'm being naughty and he this motherfucker has the nerve to say i respect your boundaries and then you honestly fuck you to yourself like i'm saying fuck you to you we had fun and you hearted that fucking message this motherfucker was just like basically saying

i don't give a shit about you but i do want to see you naked and i don't really care about whatever you said but also like the proof is right here i respect your boundaries and you hearted this fucking message. Yeah. I'm so disappointed in you. I love you. I think you're wonderful. You're better than this. I love you too.

You said we had fun, didn't we? Which opens up more communication for him to talk about how much fun you have and go into detail. After he hearted it, he thought it was appropriate to say, I do think about you naked

fairly often though. And the though. Oh my God. It's terrible. Something about the though. Fair fairly often though and the though it's terrible the though is like a recognition of like maybe I don't respect your boundaries because I think about you often naked and then though dot dot not a period not an ellipsis

it's in between it's a fucking situation shape of a punctuation didn't we we need an exclamation mark to make that even like remotely i do want to say thank you for your vulnerability you're you're helping other people by letting us roast you because we've all pulled this shit we all i mean we only know this because we've all pulled the same shit with guys like for real i've done it all the time and i know exactly where it's coming and then you said we had fun didn't we seeking that validation i mean you like here's the thing you've you've made this relationship all about sex

you've you've made the value to him you made you've you've accepted that his main value like how he sees is about sex you know it's like i do see you naked though we had fun didn't we come on like we had fun did you at least have fun with me you're you're begging for him to be like did you at least have fun with me wait i'm confused what's going on in the next thing because so that the next thing is like later he's saying that so did you guys get back you guys hooked up when you were in town when you set up back at the airport? Because he says, he said, thanks for respecting my boundaries. Or thanks for-

So that first conversation that you just read, harsh truth. Thank you for reflecting all of that back to me. So that happened. Then we saw each other in the same city, just got dinner, didn't do anything but there was some like tension

in the room and we talked about like not hooking up and which only sounded hot you know yeah let's talk about not fucking even though our whole relationship is based off of getting naked.

It's like, let's edge each other. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You can't have sex with me. You can't see me naked. Ever again. Yeah, anyway.

Let's fast forward to, how did you two manage, how did you manage to turn, the last, the last. How did you manage to turn the last the last how did you manage to turn virtual mailbox to sexual skills sexy subject i was thinking about you naked recently i think that's the connection he's a don't tease me like that i thought we agreed to keep things the friend zone don't tease me like that like friends oh now you want to be friends sometimes i regret being so behaved that night obviously

do you know i told you the restraint was impressive not to shut down the vibe and get serious but you know how i'm feeling you know where to find me and blurring these lines confuses me and i don't like being confused for you finally you had to communicate and tell him exactly how you felt and that's what has been missing and you got there and then he this motherfucker responds after that vulnerability that you shared i feel like i just got put in the naughty corner first of all he's addicted to saying what am i going to do with you i could tell by this time you're over it by this point you're kind of like there's no more with like all the naughty talk he's

like you're just like i don't like being confused it's giving santa bitch yeah it's definitely giving like mr claus i mean yeah but then you respond ha ha what am i gonna do with you and he writes naughty things and you say omg you're staying in time out yeah but i think the text message gets shorter and that's kind of when you're losing steam of like oh enough with this clown and mr claus like enough with santa like it's giving i get it yeah listen the why doesn't matter i mean the more important thing for you is why doesn't matter why does he want to do this i mean we we now know why he wants to he enjoys having sex with you and he enjoys only having a sexual relationship and you, if I was just being honest, you are very, very, it's very easy for you to give in to him.

It's like you're being accommodating against your best interests. Like, cause it's not like, cause to be fair, it's like he's the one who's like pushing this. And it's like, I get that I can feel really hard in the moment to like feel like you're being difficult or like you're being on chill or like no fun or like high key and all those things and so it just kind of seems like you're going along like trying to be go with the flow but in doing so kind of violating you're like you're the own things that you'd hoped for yourself a hundred

percent is it that good you know like truly like sex with him is it that good no no i could tell by the text i think it's giving santa claus that sex could not be that good with those tags period definitely not and i think it's going back to that what you mentioned earlier of it feeling comfortable and it like part of me liking just having someone there and as soon as that person's gone then you know just losing that i think even though it's not good yeah it's the comfort like i was talking about earlier it's like you just don't want to lose that comfortability of having someone to just do this back and forth run around ring it i mean you need a clean break honey yeah i mean i mean it's definitely a real fear and i feel like we've all gone through that before like we you hold on to something like you said not because it's good but because

it is scary to cut something off that you know has been in your life for a while and you do feel so comfortable with him and you're like well this is you know better than being alone or better than not having anyone but we have to create the opportunity for you to be able to meet someone better by cutting him off because they do exist you'll find someone so i do want you to text him this is a texting on his hours i want and i don't give a shit about him i want you to stand up for yourself and i want it to feel good and i want you to really get out what you need to say to him. And it's some version of like randomly texting him and say, I don't think you should set him up because that'd be kind of funny.

Hey, I've been thinking about you. And he's going to be like, what, naughty things? And then you just fucking drop a ball. But no, I don't think you should do that. I think you just say, hey, listen, I've been thinking and honestly, I just want to say how you really failed made me feel disrespected and used unless i mean and again i don't want to put words in your mouth

but if that's how you felt i think you should express it um i constantly told you how i felt about you i constantly told you that i wanted more from you and you constantly turned our relationship into sex and and it made me feel less than and I you know like I didn't deserve that and please don't ever reach out to me again unless you're willing to you know treat me like someone you respect period bye bitch yeah you could just tell him exactly how he made you feel and i think you need to say that to him and i think you need to really say exactly how you feel without worrying about how he's going to receive it because every other time before now you every text you've sent there's been a level of what is he going to think about what i say

how is this going to impact it how does this affect my chances with him you know this is for you that's the point of the message yeah can you do that i can and i think i needed all of this like said very bluntly so that it's kind of just like a wake-up call. It's in your face. Like, what are you doing? Shut this down. Like, you say you want. Have you read these text messages to yourself?

I mean, when I, it was just when I was screenshotting them to send them over to you. Yeah, it's not great. And that's not, it's not what I say I want, right. It's not, but it's mirroring the, the action to match what I say I want and actually following through with it and being okay, letting those crumbs go and seeing what else is out there versus having this guy who clearly doesn't match what i want just there in the background listen like i don't think this guy is a horrible fucking person and you played a role in this you know like guys can be sexual in nature and dirty talk is fun and like you are just very available and generous and and kind of you played a role in your whole this whole relationship being about sex and yeah you know any awkwardness or like and so like when you the few times you stood

up for yourself he immediately went to dirty talk yeah you know it was like oh this is awkward and weird and i'm going to try to go like i'm going to go back to what i'm comfortable with and that is like am i being naughty because you know he gonna go back to what I'm comfortable with and that is like, oh, am I being naughty? Because, you know, he wasn't used to that or uncomfortable with it. And then immediately after that, you responded in kind. It was like, oh, well, I don't know what I'm gonna do with you.

Like he immediately just, oh, you know what I'm saying? Like that was the default and you played along with it. And it's hard because like you can say no four times but if you say yes the fifth time like that's what matters and that's what keeps the thing going and like maintaining boundaries is like the least sexy most thankless like arduous job in the world sometimes like it's this constant like and one of my favorite books atomic habits like he one of the things like James Clear says is he's like the key to willpower is not putting yourself in situations where you need to exercise it that frequently. And so it's like this is a situation where you constantly needed to exercise willpower.

And it seemed like you were successful sometimes, but it didn't matter that you were successful sometimes because whenever like it did kind of like creep in and go back in that like sexual tone that you weren't into, then that's like what kind of like continues the cycle of it and i think it'll honestly feel good for you to not have that in your life i like had a similar thing where i had this situationship friendship with this guy that i'd known for a long time and it was always like sexy and i finally at one point was saying like hey without going into detail i just went through something where like i can't engage in this anymore because I'm like completely shut down so we need to like x this from our friendship

and he wasn't able to do that and it was like a huge violation of me because I was like I told you that I just went through something traumatic and you continue to prioritize being sexual and having this be like weird sexy time over me so I will be blocking you on everything please do not reach out we're done and it was like the most it's great because i don't get i don't have to see his name pop up on my phone like it's done and yeah i would do a good block honestly you don't even have to let him know you did but you don't want to have to see him his name his number his pictures his instagram his stories like it's just easier that way sometimes you need a clean ass break uh yeah i'd love to see you stand up to him though yeah you must you must you must

and then block him say what you need to say for you and then you block him don't even let him respond because it doesn't really matter what he has to say now this is for you so once you do that block i just want to be clear that I'm done and it's annoying. And like, just please stop reaching out. Like it's like you said, it's gotten to a point where it's just like, uh,

kind of relentless and upsetting. And yeah, you clearly don't like even the idea of like staying friends. Like, clearly don't like even the idea of like staying friends like are you even treating me like a friend right now totally yeah you know he's treating you like an asset yeah and i feel like we just have to we have to turn all those questions into statements because it's not a question of are you treating me like a friend he's not yeah he's literally treating you as like a sexual object yeah i'd be like i've communicated like what like i've communicated i don't know like boundaries or

like something like i've communicated like the only way that this could work for me it's clear you don't want that but you continue to push um and honestly like i don't really want to be friends anymore because like this is not how i want a friend to treat me after i communicate boundaries you made me feel less than you made me feel used yeah and as such i will be ending our relationship i think that the baseline of the whole message should just be like you made me feel less than I put in, you know, what I thought it was for this or whatever it is. But, you know, I deserve more and I want more for myself and you don't fit into that. And I don't want you to reach out anymore. And I don't want any communication because you're not serving me

anymore. And, you know, I want more and you're not it. And i think it needs to be along those lines you don't have to say like i've tried and i put in this effort and i've tried i've relentlessly it just needs to be like listen it's at the end of the rail it's at the end of the road you're not serving me anymore i deserve better i know i deserve better i have to take care of myself right now and you don't fit into that and it might be harsh for him to hear but he doesn't deserve more than that because he's looking at you as a sex object and not as someone who's looking for what you're looking for so at that you should tell him that and i think that you should block him after that you don't have to tell him you're blocking it ask him to not reach out to you anymore because the plot twist

was is he probably will reach out to you again and you're gonna have to see the name so you have to be able to block him and i'm not an advocate of blocking all the time. But I think in this case, send that text message for you. Make yourself feel better. And then and give yourself the time. If a year from now, you're still thinking about him, which, by the way, no, because you're going to find someone who's giving you exactly what you want. I can already feel it. I'm like a witch, bitch.

But this is going to help kind of jumpstart that. Trust me. Period. Do not wait for the response yeah because then he's just gonna try and make you feel like he wasn't doing make you try to feel bad you did that earlier in this message you deserve better don't be mad so i'm back in the naughty corner he's gonna give you something santa clausie again i just know it so like he's like this is kind of sexy like oh like fuck me like i think it needs to be like a one and done situation you have to promise us that because it's you need to do you and like move on with your life and focus on you but if you're sitting around waiting like oh like what's he gonna say you're playing the game again

automatically so you've done that you've waited for his responses you've gotten his shit he was like you gotta just do it and then blah. You also have to hold yourself accountable to not get it. If down the line, he, a year later or whatever, figures out how to get a hold of you and is like,

I'm a different person and I wanna be with you and a lot of yada yada. It just can't be about sex. Yeah, no. Put it in your own words, but I would send it to today i'd send it as soon as we get off the phone with us band-aid and then pat yourself on the back and be proud

of yourself get yourself a cocktail go buy yourself a gift it's a big deal and it's gonna really change your life and it's gonna be amazing in the future like listen i know it's complicated with guys and shit like that but i promise you like it's as much as we like sex and it's complicated with guys and shit like that, but I promise you, as much as we like sex, it's like we like receiving sex and we love receiving the nudes. What we love even more is someone who won't give us sex in a way. Who makes us... What we way you know like won't give like who makes us

like what we love is like anyone we love people who like respect their self-worth too and like can yeah can draw the like boundaries can be inconvenient for a lot of people but the people who respect your boundaries like are are really attracted to you you know those are people who love you for who you are and they find it sexy and they find your confidence in the way that you know your self worth as a really attractive person. And the people who don't respect your boundaries

are just people who just like, those are the signs of the people who are willing to use you because it's not you who they're trying to attract, it's what you can give them. And that's why they find your boundaries inconvenient. And that's why you can give them. And that's why they find your boundaries inconvenient. And that's why like you should sit, you know, you should see that as a reflection of them and not you, you know? And we're so afraid to like enforce our boundaries

because we're afraid of the people we like won't like us, but we have to see it as it's not them liking us. It's them using us. Think of it as like a new start to your new life. And it's going to be like open up so many doors, get a drink, buy gift go get fucked i don't know but like you know go get go have some good sex get some good dick you deserve it babe period no love it thank you all right good luck you're gonna do great uh amanda will be following up with you in a week for an update yes okay i can't wait so you better have sent that text yeah i will don't let us down we believe in

you thank you we really do you're gonna do great all right take care you got this kill it bye bye that was wild joey you're gonna send the text to your friend yeah i'm i'm doing the text today actually you are i was like kind of planning on doing it anyway i was gonna do it on monday now it's wednesday but i just got busy so today's the day and just be like hey you i'm just gonna like hey i think we both know what happened you sold my jacket like this is no no no no no no no oh yeah you really hurt i think your first sentence would be you really hurt me okay leave with that vulnerability and be, you really hurt me. Okay. Leave with that vulnerability. And then you could be like-

Like selling my jacket and lying about it really hurt me? Yeah. Yeah. No, you really hurt me. You really hurt me, period. Period. Yeah. The actual punctuation, not in the way you say it.

You lied to me. You sold my jacket on Depop. Then you lied about it. And I don't know why you did what you did, but I really, I thought more of you as a person and it broke my heart. Yeah.

Yeah. And that's it. I want to make it short and sweet. And that's just the way it's going to be for him. And then you can say, I don't need like anything back. Yeah, I forgive you. Yeah.

I don't want him to kind of come back because there's really no excuse of like what it could be. So I don't want him to come Yeah, you can say, I forgive you. Yeah, I don't want him to kind of come back because there's really no excuse of what it could be. So I don't want him to come back. There's no question, Charles. Try and give me some crazy. These are all statements. You broke my heart. You did this.

I thought more of you. I do forgive you. And I hope that you make changes in your life. Period. I hope you've made changes in your life it's been seven months so that's what i'm gonna say and i want it to be a little bit bitchy if he had if he had he probably would have he probably would have reached out so he clearly hasn't done that yeah okay so cool so it doesn't have to be so bitchy and it can just be a little bit like i don't know like you lead

with your vulnerability you'll really like zing them with yeah with it like you broke my heart especially it's giving very much joey real friends of weho vulnerability we love it so i'll do that uh so send that give us an update joey it's been a pleasure thanks for coming on so much fun please let my audience know where they can follow you uh all the great stuff you're doing and uh you know plug plug away plug away well you can find me at joey zazik on tiktok instagram all my merch and my face spray coming out in a few weeks is available at joeyzazik.com joeyzworld.com as well is coming and my show real friends of weho every friday on mtv

at 9 p.m also available in the itunes store shit's about to get crazy, so watch it and be nice to everyone. It costs zero dollars to just be nice. Love you. Thanks for listening, guys. Don't forget to send in those questions at asknickatthevilefiles.com We'll see you tonight. Better date than never, 9 p.m. Eastern. See you there.

Ask Nick next Monday, Bachelor Recap, and next Thursday on Going Deeper, Raven Ross from Love is Blind to talk about you there uh ask nick next monday bachelor recap and next thursday i'm going deeper deeper raven ross from love is blind to talk about all the rumors all the sk rumors all the drama what really happened how it happened all the crazy details we have the exclusive she's only doing this podcast in this podcast only so fuck y'all bye bye