The Viall Files - E540 Ask Nick - My Mom Runs My Dating Apps

Episode Date: February 13, 2023

Welcome back to another episode of The Viall Files: Ask Nick Edition! We’re back to answer your burning questions about the world of dating and relationships. Before getting to our callers, we discuss how to overcome dating app fatigue and feeling overwhelmed, especially in the phases between matching and going on a date. Then, we have our most recent Breakup Song of the Week submission.  Our first caller met a British man on her recent cruise and isn’t sure if she should shoot her shot and pursue long distance. Is their connection based on their vacation spark, or compatibility? Our next caller is concerned that moving in with her boyfriend has led to relationship problems. We discuss the difference between a clean, defined break and a vague undefined relationship, and how it’s difficult but important to not feel bad for prioritizing your needs. Our final caller needs help figuring out if she should continue letting her mom run her dating apps. How can she regain control of her dating life? “It’s just you and I talking here. Do you want to be with your boyfriend?” If you are interested in running a book club in your city, send an email to: [e-mail]   Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  Join us for our new LIVE show on Thursdays at 9PM ET/6PM PT on Amp, available in the Apple app store and https://www.onamp.com for Android listeners. To Order Nick’s Book Go To: https://www.viallfiles.com If you would like to get some texting advice on Office Hours send an email to [e-mail] with “Texting Office Hours” in the subject line!  To advertise on the show, contact [e-mail] or visit https://www.advertisecast.com/TheViallFiles THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Caraway: Caraway is offering our listeners 10% off their next purchase. Visit https://www.Carawayhome.com/VIALL  Rakuten: Rakuten is the smartest way to save money when you shop! http://www.rakuten.com Hungryroot: Right now, Hungryroot is offering our listeners 30% off their first delivery and free veggies for life. https://www.hungryroot.com/viall Helix Sleep: Helix is offering up to 20% off all mattress orders AND two free pillows for our listeners! Go to https://www.helixsleep.com/viall Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @alison.vandam @liffordthebigreddog 

Hey, we've got a secret. This podcast is supported by Apples Never Fall, a chilling new mystery series from the author of Big Little Lies, starring Annette Bening, Sam Neill, Jake Lacey, and Alison Brie. It's sure to get people talking. What dark secrets lurk in this family? Tune in on March 21st to find out. Apples Never Fall, exclusively on W Network and Stack TV. What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to another episode of the Vile Files Ask Nick

edition. I'm your host Nick, joined by Amanda and Allie. Hi. What's going on? Hi. What's new? What's cranking? I have a question for you people in relationships. Just getting right into it. Yeah.

Happy Valentine's Day tomorrow. Yeah. All you lovers out there there happy valentine's and the non-lovers yeah the fighters happy valentine's day to the fighters yeah i would love to go to a valentine's day party of all the fighters just you know no time to end it you know just keep keep fighting the fight you fight the good fight what were you you saying, Allie? I'm sorry, Allie. Okay, I have a question. So we talk a lot about going through phases of dating on this show, like how it can be very exhausting and how sometimes you have to take a break

and then you can get back into it. But I feel like there's a time of exhaustion and like that a lot of people don't talk about. We've been talking a lot about dating on apps because over the weekend, love my best friend happily married we put my hinge up on the tv it was a whole event swiping right swiping left such chaos such fun times but now i have like seven people in my inbox that are messaging me and i'm like huh so how like i'm like what's a problem here that's a slump right there what's the huh it's just like I'm like I don't even really know how interested I am in you and now

I have to maintain conversation with multiple people why I think it's just a lot like even I'd like oh the swiping is fun and then they message you and you're like oh no well I think that's a phenomenon with technology where there's like different levels of like passivity within technology that i feel a lot where sometimes i'll have a bunch of unread text messages from my best fucking friends people i objectively care about want to respond to and i will find myself scrolling on instagram because i've just really like burned out and i've had a really long you know and i'm all out of the juice for i'm all out of the juice but i still crave stimulation and it's kind of messed up this is a bad example i'll give

you a better one why is that a bad it's a perfect one where it's like passive and easy to like because you're actively ignoring people who are expecting like you have relationships with and you're saying like i'm just actively ignoring them the point is is that there's a different level of like pat like there's the passivity of liking and instagram like that form of social media engagement versus like actual conversing engagement fair okay but i'll give you another maybe example that you might uh help you out as you know every uh week i do questions with nick on my old gram account for those of you who don't know, right, when people, when like I, that prompt or ask me anything or how can I help and people submit questions? Well, I get hundreds of questions every week. I don't know, maybe more.

When I respond to the questions, no one knows who's asking the questions. It's anonymous, right? And I often remind myself every week because like there's this like sense of i almost forget subconsciously i don't have to answer every question i know they asked i don't have to answer and because sometimes all this kind of go in rapid fire mode and i'll go through and then it's like whether it's a dating question sometimes i remind myself it's like i don't have to answer this and i don't have enough characters to fully give this type of question its full answer or maybe it's a personal question that i don't feel like answering but there's this level of like i have to remind myself of that because there's like

this sense of like i can't i can't not respond yeah but then how do you get over the idea of like what if i don't respond to this person or what if I unmatch with this person and it could have been great and I didn't know? Well, then if that's, if you're worried about it could be great, then respond. And again, what I'm saying, it's just like, you know, like this, I relate to this like, oh my God, I match with seven people

and I don't want to be rude. And like, oh, like I have to talk to, like I get that feeling in the sense where I have a very similar feeling when I do questions with Nick at times where it's just like wait i don't have to answer all of these yeah you know and i feel like you know even with natalie she's done q and a's and i kind of said to her like just uh something i've had to remind myself you don't have to answer everything and because like you can kind of get into this rhythm of like opening up with people you don't know and don't things you don't really want to share,

but they ask. So you don't want to, you don't want to be rude or things like that. So I get that energy. But if in your head and you're wondering what if didn't send a message, what's the worst thing that can, I don't know. And I was even finding myself yesterday when I was looking at them,

I was like, there was one person that I was just like, it felt more natural to respond to. And I was like, Oh fun. Like it felt easy. at them I was like there was one person that I was just like it felt more natural to respond to and I was like oh fun like it felt easy and then there was like five other ones where I was like I don't want to respond to you and so I was like maybe I just keep responding to the one yeah there's literally no

I know I just feel bad maybe try to have seven different types of conversations in a sense that like maybe try different approaches with all seven maybe one guy you're just kind of like you're literally just fucking around you're literally just kind of you're trying to fuck with him off the bat not mean but you're just like you're kind of saying things that don't make sense and you're trying to see if he has a sense of humor another person maybe ask more questions of him. I don't know. Just play around.

An experiment. Literally. See, but then it's always just like, when they're like, let's go on a date on Wednesday. It's just like, no! I don't wanna. When did 10-year-old Allie show up this morning?

I'm like, let's just chat. Let's not. Let's just text. So so wait let me get this straight I don't want to talk to people but then I only want to but you don't want to go on dates but you only want to text them but you don't want to text them and that was when they realized why she was single

there's that therapy maybe better help when you make a choice to like either not respond or like not go on a date

and you find yourself feeling guilty about it like what are you in your head what are you saying about yourself you're like oh me not doing this

looks like XYZ yeah good question I feel like it's like they're gonna join a club at some point and be like god she's a bitch. Or like, she led me on.

She ghosted me. I don't know. They're going to find me later in life. So them feeling like you owe them something that you don't really have the capacity for in the moment type thing? I don't know. Can you bring up one person you're actively not responding to? No. I just want to see what he looks like.

No. Why? I'm not putting them up on the screen. No, I just want to see what he looks like. No. Why? I'm not putting them up on the screen. No, I just want to see. Okay. I don't know where my phone is. Let me just clear out my nudes.

Jesus Christ. Well, Allie brings that up. I think maybe we'll hit you guys with the breakup song of the week song I will be singing it's called Roses and Cigarettes by Ray LaMontagne

do you want to look at all my people? and just quickly you know this one was just like the lyrics and so this was a pick not necessarily based off of the sob story but because of the oh boy i didn't play sports this is the most distraught oh my god wow good catch please continue that had some spin on it um roses and cigarettes ray lamontagne the lyrics that resonated are roses and cigarettes pillowcase that remembers you the scent of you lingers on my fingertips till I think I might go insane.

When will I see you again? They didn't include a message as to why it resonated, but the lyrics and the song itself will be in the playlist. Carraway, new year, new kitchenware everywhere. If you haven't checked out Carraway, I don't know what you are thinking. If you like to cook at all, Caraway has you covered with some really aesthetically pleasing kitchenware. They have bakingware. It's durable.

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I hope that whether you're feeling like an Allie or you're feeling like an Amanda, either way, I hope you enjoy your valentine's day this uh week tomorrow if you're in la area tomorrow on valentine's day at the grove i'll be doing a book signing at the barnes and noble at the grove at 6 p.m so the grove one of the places a mall cop kicked us out of while we were trying to film some man in the street stuff. Some hard-hitting journalism. Yeah.

So, redemption arc for the group. if you're in the area on Valentine's Day, come hang out. Come say hi. Come check out Don't Text Your Ex

Happy Birthday. Also, if you are single and alone and struggling relationships and dating and you haven't checked out my book Don't Text Your Ex

Happy Birthday, now is as good a time as any for Valentine's Day. We have an amazing week lined up for you. A big week. Huge, huge. Big. Huge. Huge week. Raven from Love is Blind is here.

If you haven't watched the After the Final Altar special, you know, her and SK, he proposed again. They got engaged again. and now they're not together and now raven is with us to finally tell all to really get into the nitty-gritty it's the only podcast she is doing yes uh she truly tells all our jaws were on the floor it is shocking it is disappointing it is crazy uh it is a tale of deceit lies and

just some fucked up shit you know and we got the exclusive so be sure to check that out on Thursday this week

and I hope you enjoy all the teaser trailers we'll be certainly dropping this week if you were on the show and you want to update us we would love

to hear it I'm sure you've received emails from me at this point so you can just respond to one of those bad boys or show some initiative. Even if your update is like, you only have half of an update, that's still an update. Yeah. I'm like, what did you do? Or maybe your update is like, I didn't do anything and-

Here's what I'm now struggling with. Yeah. And my life is still as problematic and troublesome as it was before I called because I don't necessarily like implementing advice. I just like talking. Yes, this is not the column of the high school alumni newsletter where you only have to brag. You can be very honest with us. We would love

to genuinely know where you're at, how you're doing. Please send us an email. Include update in the subject line. Don't forget we have the new Vile Files TikTok. We're growing. Slowly but surely we're growing and if you want to be one of the founding members of this following join in. You'll be one of

the select few and soon we're going to blow up. So if you want to be an early adapter. In the words of Miley Cyrus, it's the climb. It's the climb. Also, don't forget this Thursday, another episode of Better Date Than Never, 6 p.m. Pacific, 9 p.m. Eastern.

9 p.m. Eastern. All conversations about dating and, you know, like Allie's talking about matching with people on the apps and then psyching herself out. I don't know. We're getting into the nitty gritty when it comes to dating. And honestly, it's really just about creating a community. People are making friends. People are talking.

We're exchanging ideas, best practices, success stories, things like that. You do not want to miss it. best practices, success stories, things like that. You do not want to miss it. If you're hanging around at night and drinking some wine and chilling, come just hang out with us live. You won't regret it. This week, this Thursday, 9 p.m. Eastern, we'll see you there.

All right. Well, let's get to our callers. Question time with Nick. Let's ask Nick your sexy questions. How's it going? Hey, I'm Julia. I'm 26 and I met a British man in the cruise and I'm not sure if I should pursue something with him. Okay. When did you meet? So we met about, I guess like two and a half weeks ago. I went on the cruise. Who'd you go on the cruise with? I went with my parents and my best friend. Okay.

Set up, set up, you know, take us back. We want, give us the rom-com, give us the story, you know,

sell it. For sure. So I went on the cruise with my family. I wish, sorry, I wish a man named Derek, I wish we had, is there any,

do we have any like romantic like background like bachelor music yeah like music while she tells the romantic story so basically we were on the cruise it was me and my best friend with my parents you know the cruise that you see people from all walks of life we're both 26 years old not really thinking that we're gonna meet like people our age right like it's mostly like 55 plus a couple kids running around so it was a 12 day cruise like a very long cruise so me and my friend were kind of like nervous that we were gonna kill each other by the end yeah this is a big sardine can, basically. Yeah, yeah, really. So for the first couple of days, me and her, we were kind of like not really doing much, like just going on the excursions, you know, me and her going out to dinner with my parents.

And then we were like, oh, like we're kind of bored. Like because me and her, you know, I'm at this age too where it's like I'm kind of still into going out, but like not really. So we were kind of like being grandmas, honestly, on the cruise. And then one night we decided we're like, okay, let's get a few drinks. And we went up to like the pool deck and we like saw just like a group of people. And I saw these like really attractive men. And I was like, oh my God, like I'm going to say my friend, let's say her name is Katie. I'm like, Katie, like this is the first attractive man I've seen in five days.

Let's go up to them. And me, when I have a drink and I have courage, I'll go up to anyone. I'll be like, hi, my name is Juliet. Nice to meet you. Sounds like someone I know. Allie. Oh, yeah? Let's take a cruise together.

Yeah, it would be good wing woman together. Hey, how old are old are you what do you do what do you do for a living what do you have to do exactly same same thing so i went up to them my friend katie she has a long-term boyfriend so she's a good like wing girl still hanging around but like it's fine so i go up to him and i was just like immediately like oh my god like i'm in love like you kind of think i'm like a hopeless romantic to begin with and like he's a tall so i were playing the music like attractive like man and i heard the british accent i was like dear god like this is like so cute and i was like oh like honestly he's probably like a douchebag like sorry i don't know if i can curse like he's probably like you know classic um guy you know yeah so we kind of hung out a few times like

obviously there's drinking involved um we're like in the hot tub hanging out on multiple occasions and me and him like just had some really deep conversations like i feel like and um he was very different than anyone i've ever dated like very yeah he was british and had an accent so but also yeah also it's like the vacation boyfriend situation where everything's heightened and it feels so like spontaneous in what ways was he's different than anyone you you sound like a person on the bachelor right now and what way was he different than anyone you've ever met so person on the bachelor right now and what way was he different than anyone you've ever met so me like um i've always gone for like the classic masculine energy like oh like more on the conservative side and like he when we were having conversations

like for example like there was like comedy shows like on the cruise ship and he was like oh like me and Katie were saying we wanted to go um to like the comedy show and he was like oh like I don't know why you guys would want to go to that comedy show only Americans like all Americans do is make fun of women like and I was like what like it's a comedy show and he was like, what? Like, it's a comedy show. And he was, like, very, like, feminist and kind of, like, just very different than any guy I've ever dated. And it was nice. Yeah, we just had, like, really deep conversations. And, yeah, I don't know.

Did you fuck? We definitely got into some stuff, yeah. Cue the soft porn music uh what what uh what was what's what did you do what do you mean did you have sex yes we did okay how did that happen like what like where did you go from hot tub to let's go back to my cabin whatever it's called so obviously there was like a titanic kind of like on the front of the ship while everyone was asleep at 2 a.m that someone almost fall in you know like yeah so i like like so it was a couple of nights obviously drinking's involved

you know like but um you know like one night the last the last night in particular, we were in the hot tub all hanging out like during the day, not really drinking, just hanging out, talking. And then later we met up and then we were all like in a group of people, just a big group. And then me and him kind of like veered off to the side. We were on like the dance floor and like the like the club on the ship. Me and him are dancing together. And then I try like and me and him are dancing together and then i try like and we're me and him are talking like oh we'll never see each other again sad sad sad so i try to give him my like instagram handle what yeah like you know but i try to give him

my instagram handle and uh obviously the wi-fi is not working on the cruise ship and i'm like oh my god he was like oh I can't give you my hand. I'll just give you my dick instead. I'm sorry. I'm just kidding. You have to do it in the accent though. That's what it really is. Give you my dick instead.

Definitely not as good. I'm harassing you. I can't do it. Yeah, sorry. Yeah. So I'm trying to give him my Instagram. Was it good? Was it good?

It was very good. It was very good. It was. It was. Feminists are better lovers. Right now, Hungry Root is offering the Vilefile listeners 30% off your first delivery and free veggies for life. Go to HungryRoot.com slash V-I-A-L-L.

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Don't forget to use our link so they know we sent you. We got in bed a while ago. Natalie got back from Paris and she said, I wish people could just know how comfortable our mattress is. It is like a dream come true. And the truth is you can, because you know, we didn't have it like custom made or anything like that. We didn't have like little elves make our magical bed. It was Helix. It was Helix. That's all I did. We just went online. We took a quiz. We got a mattress. It was super simple and fast and fun. And now we sleep on what we call magical, a magical mattress. We're floating in heaven when we're in bed. It's incredible. I don't know what else to tell you. I've said this every time I talk about Helix. I'm a customer for life.

It is amazing. It is incredible. If you sleep on anything else, you're a fool. You're spending more money than you need to on all these other more expensive and fancy mattresses that take longer to make. It doesn't make any sense. Also, Nick talks about Helix when we're not even in the studio.

Like we got lunch the other day, brought up Helix. Like we were just talking team building, brought up Helix when we're not even in the studio. We got lunch the other day, brought up Helix. We were just talking team building, brought up Helix. This is not even just him spewing out information. He talks about it even when the cameras aren't rolling. Helix is a premium mattress brand that provides tailored mattresses based on your unique sleep preferences. Helix lineup includes 14 different unique mattresses. So it can be customized to how you sleep. Everybody's unique. Everyone sleeps differently and Helix has a mattress for you and they're all insanely comfortable. And if you don't have one, I just think you're a little nutty. If I'm just being honest, Helix is offering up to 20% off all mattress orders now and two free pillows for our

listeners. Go to helixsleep.com slash V-I-A-L-L. This is the best offer yet, and it won't last long. With Helix, better sleep starts now. How did things leave? Yeah. So like that last night, trying to give him the Instagram wasn't loading. Me and him ended up like walking around the ship together. We were already pulled in back into New York City, and he was like, oh, let's go up to the top deck and look at the skyline and like I'm from here so I was like I don't really cold up there like why are we going up there we went up there hung out walked around then he ended up there was like a just a random person he's like oh can you take a picture of us so then he took a picture of us um together and I think it's a really cute picture and I honestly totally forgot about it

and then that it was the next day we had to leave the ship at like 7 a.m we like said goodbye that night um just a picture it's a good picture it's a nice picture it's a cute picture it is the person who took it hey you know what nick I know I didn't realize you're being nick picky it's an ick for me yeah but he also seems he also seems really really handsome too yeah very handsome yeah look at your shoes you're killing it catch you in hoboken sometime peace oh i miss you so that was sent like the next day he like didn't follow me on instagram because he only like screenshotted my handle i was like oh my god i'm never gonna hear from him like he's never gonna like find my instagram like whatever i was kind of like okay katie this is like a vacation romance

and then later that day it was probably like later in the afternoon he was taking a flight home that night after we got off the cruise. And then all of a sudden I got a message has requested to follow you on Instagram. And I was like, Oh my God. Like I was like, Oh my,

I'm never going to talk. Like I just couldn't believe it. And then he sent me those DMs quickly after. You have a shirt for tomorrow or just rocking some sports bra and yoga pants. That's the one. No, no, no. That's a different color. Sorry. after you have a shirt for tomorrow or just rocking some sports bra and yoga pants that's the one no wait no that's a different color sorry i was like what did i miss something oh that nice to meet you here it's like wow that's a weird line

nice to meet you uh here have a souvenir sent a picture of you two catch you in a welcome sometime oh i miss i miss i'll i'll miss you and where have we gone from there so obviously like so that's kind of also like i'm he's like like my stories that i posted you know harmless thing on instagram but i haven't messaged him or and he hasn't messaged me since so I know it's like very far-fetched okay and I'm like a hopeless romantic to begin with I know this my I've talked to multiple friends about this situation telling people at work co-workers but I just feel like it was kind of I haven't for me i've been dating for a while and i've gone multiple dates like and to find a connection like that and a spark like i was just like it was different and like don't get me wrong i hope i understand this is like crazy like he lives all the way in the uk

i live in new york but okay minus the to be. Minus the aligned beliefs, minus the spark. What do you like about him? In the 12 days you get to spend time with him, you know, because the spark, you know, I think we can attribute that to the situation, the excitement, you know. The background music. The background, you know. situation the excitement yeah you know the background music the back you know uh but what what other you know because like he does wear those shorts nick yeah let the man wear shorts it's a cruise yeah that one is european that would have to be those shorts they might have

to be thrown out but uh but no but all seriousness what do you like about him um i i just really liked his personality i like the way he spoke to people i like the way he like when i was talking to him i felt like he really heard me like he was very like just a deep person and just his outlook on life was really interesting he's a little older than me. He's like traveled a lot. Just seems to like, I don't know. I just, I liked his personality dancing on the dance floor with me, not caring. Yeah.

Just, I felt like we really got along and if he lived here, it might've turned into something different, but yeah. So reach out, you know like listen uh you you said you're a hopeless romantic so i'm guessing that if i said is there a world which you would be willing to move to london for love you know all things considered my guess is you'd be open to it i mean yeah like if i would like if you if i met the person i'm supposed to spend the rest of my life with i would do it i think you do anything for love but not everyone would you know some people are like no i do not want to live in europe

like that would be a reasonable non-negotiable for someone you know i don't know if i want to like love europe seems great like been there it's cool but like yeah you know I'm an American when it came down to it it would be hard but like I feel like that would yeah I don't know who knows and like maybe he you know yeah you can come here I guess I'm just like that's that's the

baseline you know you got to start there is it even like in my wildest dreams would I be willing to even consider this okay you are fine. You know, you're still a long way away from that decision. But like if you, if some people are just like, honestly, it's just, you know, and even then you could reach out to them and have a little bit of fun, but just reach out to them, see where it goes, you know, like just say, Hey, you know, there's the, that's the beauty of

technology these days and the internet. Like you can FaceTime. Like the difference between having a text messaging or Internet relationship that a lot of people have and evolved. You know, that's how I started my current relationship. And that's how I started other relationships. It could be a lot of fun, you know, and it doesn't matter if they live three hours away or overseas. You know, you can Skype and Zoom and FaceTime and all these things or WhatsApp. So hit them up, see where it goes and just... Yeah, just see how much effort he's willing to put in.

I met a rugby player at a bar one time and we chatted for years, but now he's happily in a relationship. So clearly it meant nothing to him. The feminist who wants to be respectful to women are all people you know you could give him an opportunity take him at his word to say hey I just I really had a good time I'm aware of the

environment probably playing a role into the spark that we felt but I did really I really enjoyed getting to know you and you seem like a real special person and I would love to keep getting to know you. I don't know what that means, but like, are you even interested in that? You know, I wouldn't ask for more than that at first.

A couple of weeks in, if it evolves, check in again. You know, I guess my advice is you've heard me say, if you pursue this, if he's open to it, I would check in frequently. You know, a lot of people in your to it, I would check in frequently. You know, a lot of people in your shoes are very afraid to check in early on. They don't want to sound crazy. They don't want to sound like, you know, persistent or pushy and checking in just, you know, so let's say you reach out, you DM them. Hey, I've been thinking about you. Oh, I've been thinking about you too. And then you're like, let's have a FaceTime date and you have a fun FaceTime date and you have, you get deep because you you know you can't fuck or fool around so there's no awkward pause you keep talking you go a little deeper you make some connections and you're like that was really fun

and exciting you start texting throughout the day and blah blah blah and that happens for two or three weeks you could say like this has been really fun like what like not you know i guess in some ways like where do you see this going? I'm starting to really connect with you. Are you remotely interested in pursuing something like this? Because it would take a lot of effort on our part. And just be upfront with me because it would make a lot of sense that you're just like, as fun as we have been talking, that you're just not interested in that level of commitment or prioritization or I'm fine with you knowing or you

thinking that I am great, but you know, maybe he has no interest in, and it's a lot to try to make what you're considering make potentially work. And so you could just check in and see how he feels because for better or worse, you both kind of have an easy out if it's not vibing. So just don't be afraid of that acknowledging that and just go from there you know why not yeah yeah for sure because like i'm kind of in the dating like i'm just trying to go with the flow and i feel like you know like and i am supposed to be going to europe in march so i was kind of thinking maybe to when i reach out to him, maybe be like, Hey,

I'm actually coming to your side of the pond, like in a couple of months. Like, I don't know. You can, you can hit them up in March or let them know, Hey, I'm going to come. And if nothing else, you have a nice fun shag, as he might say, uh, when you go to London, you know, it's just like, I'll be in your area, but that's not what you're actually thinking about or considering. So, and you're not wrong for thinking or considering it. So I would forget, don't even mention you're going to be in March, in Europe in March. Just bring up, just say, the point is, is you really enjoyed him and you think there's an outside chance and you're trying to be as realistic as possible, despite, you know, bit of helpless romantic that he could be a really special person and who the fuck knows and in the meantime if he's just like you know listen i'm i'm in fucking england and you're in new york and you

could just be like yeah that sucks well i will be there in march so either way let's get together for sure you know like yeah i think you play it that, but I wouldn't like you bringing it up. Hey, I'm going to be in March is a reason to keep talking. You're kind of fooling yourself and fooling him. It's a, it's not as just be upfront, just be upfront with how you feel and what you want and what you're hoping to accomplish and just be realistic with yourself first

and then him second. And check in with yourself first and then check in, you know, how are you feeling about this? And I would, any feelings of spark or chemistry, I would just throw out the door. I would care about what is his character? What do you like about him? What do you know, like, how do you get to know him? Do you like more things? You know, don't try to convince yourself it's a good thing. Convince yourself it's a good thing. Because a spark is, everything about this is sparky, you know? And so it's going to give you a lot of reasons to think he's great.

I want you to really pay attention to what you learn about him. Yeah, I will. I'll reach out. Like, I'll be, it's kind of like at the end of the day, if it like worked out or it's just like a really good story to tell. And it was a fun experience. You should try. Yeah. You have nothing to lose yeah i know

because like at the end of the day i'm never going to see him ever again and no you'll see him in march for sure but oh yeah when i show up at us why wouldn't he want if you're willing to go to his neck in the woods why wouldn't he want i mean he could have a girlfriend by then but but you know who knows you know i'll never you know just who know you don't know what's gonna happen you really don't go to everybody yeah no but thank you all right well keep us posted we um we want an update keep enjoying yourself and enjoy the journey um yeah you'll always be highs and lows and good for you for shooting your shot yeah you're never gonna regret just like putting yourself out there because at least you know and you've done it this time and you can always do it again if it doesn't pan out. And if it doesn't work out, you always have those shorts to look at.

Nick. I know. I always have the picture. Me and my friend Katie, we were like, we have no evidence of how beautiful he was. No, it doesn't. You're being dramatic. He's got these chicken legs, you know? Yeah, no.

But at least I have some evidence. At least you have the photo. He's really cute. No, he's really handsome though. Because I'm 5'7". And I'm wearing like 3 1⁄2 inches. Yeah, your shoes are cute. So he's like 6'2"?

Yeah. Wow. Pretty good. He's a handsome fella. All right, take care. Thanks guys so much. Bye. Bye.

Bye. How's it going? Hi. What's your name? My name's Liz. How old are you Liz? I'm 35. And how can we help?

I just moved in with my boyfriend of the year and it's created some problems. So I need to figure out what to do. All right, great. So tell me about some of these problems. One of the biggest problems is he has a corgi and I already have two dogs in the house and a cat. So there's been some adjusting. Okay.

How long you guys been living with each other? Since last summer. So about July. Okay. It's been okay. It's hard when we both work 10 hour shifts and it's like having children. Do you work from home? Do you both work from home?

No, we both work 10 hour shifts and we it's like having children do you work from home you both work from home no we both work uh different jobs we both work 10 hour shifts and they're roughly around the same time give or take a couple hours and like no one's there to take care of the dogs right okay i have a tiny dog a big dog and he has a middle-sized dog so the dynamic of trouble can be uh slim to none but also pretty extravagant okay give me an example of extravagance so um uh uh carrying up the carpet or uh getting a hold of the toilet paper or getting into the trash like whodunit um so we started separating dogs and his dog tends to be the problem child and I feel bad because I'm putting a lot of I don't know pressure on him to not fuck it up and I guess moving in together and the dog situation was the reason I wasn't ready and I told him I wasn't ready and And I told him I wasn't ready. And he told me that he

proved me wrong. And unfortunately, he hasn't done that yet. But so it sounds to me like it really isn't about the dog. I just don't. It sounds to me like you maybe weren't ready to move in. And he won that battle. Yes. And the dogs was maybe an excuse that you gave him. And I'm sure on some level was valid and was a concern. But my guess is, is that there were more a deeper discomfort on your part of if you guys were ready to move in with each other. play the caregiver in roles to where I just want to take care of everybody. I want to like, I don't know, I'm the romantic person that will like make cookies for you when you come over before you even knew it. Or, you know, like, I don't, I don't know, I feel like I wanted all these things. And I feel like he was just doing things to make me happy. And it pretty much got to the point where the dog wasn't really the situation. It was more an addition to something. I, my, my boyfriend was married when he was 18 for 10 years.

And I feel like he got comfortable living with somebody and having that family life. And I wasn't really used to that. So it was more, it became, oh, what am I making for dinner? Or, oh, I have to clean the house. Or I don't know, living together, I see, you see a lot of each other's flaws. And I feel like he wasn't really trying to help me do much. He was, I don't know, getting comfortable. And it got boring for me fast.

I mean, I had to make all the plans. I had to make sure that if he came home from work, that he had something to eat, that the house wasn't a mess, that I don't know. So as soon as he moved in, you started feeling more like a caregiver than a partner. Yeah. And it started to... I guess I should have seen the red flags before it kind of started out really fast. Um, I met him and he was very sweet and very genuine. And I don't know, in a way I felt like I was out of his league. So I never had to worry about jealousy and stuff like that. Um, he had vaguely told me about his past, but he was married from the time he was 18

until he was like 28 years old, which was only like five years ago. So I don't, I started to feel like maybe he didn't give himself the time to like grow. And instead of changing and bettering himself, he just got used to having someone take care of him and i ended up filling the role that was that he didn't have like i ended up like replacing his wife without i don't know it got hard to where i had to deal with the dog situation because i work in vet med so i get to take his dog to work but then i feel like a dick because then my dog's gonna stay home question and it's just you and i talking here you know do you want to be with your boyfriend? Yes, but I feel like he's got some shit to figure out.

I don't know. I'm thankful that my parents had me talking to a professional when I was young because I had to deal with my shit. And I had a shitty relationship. What shit? Because I'm sure it sounds like he has you know some imperfections and i get that but like you haven't really described to me any like major issues other than like yeah maybe he's just a little too comfortable with kind of playing house and in his role in a domestic kind of

partnership of living together and his responsibilities. And everyone can benefit from individual therapy, but this does sound like a relationship problem. And so you guys could do couples therapy and he can also do his own therapy. It doesn't have to be one or the other, but as far as the relationship goes, this does seem like something a relationship therapist could help you guys work through.

If nothing else, you may come to discover that maybe this isn't what you want. And I don't think there's anything wrong with you guys starting couples therapy and for no other reason you know you can work some shit out and maybe he gets comfortable with therapy in general and maybe the couples therapy therapist can suggest you know specific reasons for him to get therapy but i'm getting the sense from you that you know you've said you've had some experience with experience with therapy in the past and you feel like you're you know grounded and kind of comfortable with your at and you see some you know flaws in him that maybe he doesn't

see in you and that all might be true but at the same time i it almost feels like a bit of a like excuse like on your part you have and some valid frustrations with the relationship right now and you you know want to be with him but kind of thing and i don't think it's i'm sure he has work to do, but I'm getting more of a sense that you're just not sure if this is it for you. Yeah, I think I just want more from him. Like it took a lot. I mean, it took, we talked after Christmas because I don't know, I just needed to talk to him. But he finally told me that he was alone. He's only been alone for like eight months of his life.

me that he was alone he's only been alone for like eight months of his life and sometimes i feel like i'm a very outgoing person and i kind of want him to be his own self i mean we started dating and he stopped hanging out with friends wanted to hang out with me i invite him out with my friends but i want to be i want him to be his own individual person yeah and have his own like i don't want my things to be his things and i I feel like lately, we were just meshing as one person where I want him to like, stand out, I want him to go have friends, like, I want him to be confident. And I guess it stemmed from going to I went to one of his work parties, and he loves his job. But I felt like I was like, tell me who this person is, like, you talked so much about them, like, introduce me. And I don't know, sometimes i feel like he's a shy guy that just needs to like have a breakthrough and i don't want to just have a half-assed partner i want

him to be the best for himself and i'm assuming you've expressed all this to him yeah yeah we talked about it it was really hard to talk about because i sometimes feel like a jerk in the way that i just like kind of push him but i feel like he needed it i mean i feel like a jerk in the way that I just like kind of push him, but I feel like he needed it. I mean, I feel like he's constantly like, what are we going to do? Or what do you want to do this weekend? And it's always like what I want to do. And it was exhausting. And unfortunately I called him like an energy vampire and told him that I want you to like, think of these cool things to do. Like let's go out with your friends or go out with your friends.

And I told him that maybe some time apart will help him realize like what he's sacrificing to be with me that he doesn't realize he's sacrificing like yeah sure thanks for thinking that I'm great and you want to spend all the time with me but I almost feel like I'm trying to pump him up and keep myself pumped up yeah at the same time and so i don't know i feel like i needed to take a step back and just have like a little breather and so we've been kind of taking a breather like how is he how has he responded to that i think he's doing better i mean he's been in therapy for two or he said two or three sessions he said he got back on antidepressants um I don't know he came over like so back in September I kind of told him hey I feel like I'm being asked a lot of

I was starting a new job and it was hard to figure out like is the job too much for me was the relationship too much for both too much and I needed to figure out what I needed for myself first, because it's hard for me to put myself first, but I feel like in this instance, it was my relationship. Like I felt like I was lifting someone up as a job and also like doing my, my work job. So I told him I needed a break.

I didn't want, I'm not like texting other people. I'm not going out. Like I'm just remembering the things that bring me joy that aren't a person because sometimes you can get infatuated. And in a way I felt he was a little infatuated with me. And so it's been a month. Do you still live together?

No. So back in September when I first was having problems, because I struggle with depression and, you know, I've done a lot for myself. And so I told him that I had unrealistic expectations on the relationship, and that I didn't want it to stress us out. So I asked him to find a place separately, and that we could still like, maybe not spend every weekend together because we were spending all of our time together i mean i felt guilty going to see my friends and he would want to come and how do you tell your partner no you do sometimes you're trying your best to set some boundaries and reset kind of the relationship and the expectations which is tough to do but you're doing it so i commend you for that you know like you know it's tough you know we always talk about relationships is like hey as long as you're growing as, but you're doing it. So I commend you for that. You know, like, you know, it's tough. You know, we'd always talk about relationships as like, hey, as long as you're growing, as long as you're moving forward and shit like that.

And that's generally true. But every once in a while, we can get a little ahead of ourselves. We can be a little hasty. We can make decisions that aren't in the best interest of ourselves or the relationship. Moving in together isn't often one of those steps. We often move in with each other for the wrong reasons. And it's really tough to like go backwards. But every once in a while,

I think that might be the healthier step. But, you know, then you have to kind of get through the reality of taking that step backwards and then not, you know, be too hard on yourselves. Like, what does that mean for us? You know, like I sometimes in relationships, we like to, you know, our love is special. You know, like our love is better than others.

Our love is this. And it's just like, yeah, who gives a shit how it compares to others and things like that. You know, you could argue that this is a really healthy step forward for you guys by taking that step backwards. And I guess the big question is, is how is he handled this change? And it sounds like he's still doing therapy, which is great. He needs to be consistent with that. I still think couples therapy is an option for you guys. If you, you know, after maybe another month goes by,

if ultimately you're still saying yes to the question of, do you want to be with your boyfriend, but you're still struggling with what that looks like, a couples therapist can help guide you through that, you know? And at any point you can decide to end the relationship or end the couples therapy. But if, if this is something that you're invested in, you know, and you talked about him being an energy vampire, right? This is clearly taking a lot of your energy, you know, but like try to,

you know, get help with that. And that's like something a couples therapist can try to do, you know, like sometimes if we've been through therapy, we try to like, well, get help with that. And that's like something a couples therapist can try to do. You know, like sometimes if we've been through therapy, we try to like, well, I'm good, I'm fine. And I don't really need it. And he needs to work on himself. So, but I'm good. And if he does, and maybe we can be fine, it could be a little bit somewhere in between a little bit of both. And then, like I said, maybe he does have a lot of individual work to do, but it sounds like the relationship also might need some, you know, some guidance and some handholding and, you know, ways for you guys to communicate these kind of complicated

discussions without triggering each other or, or, or making each other feel bad or, or just maybe having conversations of you sitting next to your partner on a couch with a couples therapy and saying, this makes me feel this way. And having that third party acknowledging that it's okay for you to feel that way and validate your feelings without you feeling that guilt that you often feel when you try to set a boundary with your partner and you try to push back or you try to say no. It sounds like you feel this guilt of like, oh, I'm letting this person down and I'm not being the caregiver I want to be. And sometimes it's nice to have that third party say, no, don't feel bad. This is healthy.

This is good. This is okay. And then look to your partner to say, how does it, you know, are you okay with that? How does it make you feel? Like just kind of play referee, you know, but like it's, you're trying to do this all by yourself. And like you said, it is sucking your energy. And it's just like, it's tough. And so I don't think there's a, I think honestly, from what you've told me,

you've done a pretty damn good job of trying to take the right steps to correcting a decision that ultimately you regretted making, which is moving in too fast. If nothing else, a couples therapist could really take some of that burden off your plate. And then once you feel less of a burden, maybe you have a clear picture of what you really want in this relationship.

I guess he checks a lot of boxes and I almost feel like I'm getting like maybe 60% and I could get 90%. So I kind of wanted him to kind of figure his shit out. I mean, I still care about him. I just know that he's got, I don't know, I feel like some sadness that I don't think he works through. I mean, he's, he'll talk about his emotions, but it's sporadically. But I mean, he did come over and get some stuff. And we had a really good conversation. I mean, a lot of times, he's always like, how's your day or how was your day? And I hate that stuff because I work in ER vet med.

My day is sometimes not good and sometimes I don't want to talk about it. But now that we actually like he's talking about his feelings and he's hanging out with friends and he's finding hobbies, I think he's getting more confident in himself. And that's all i wanted i i guess my problem is usually like after it's either you're together or you're not but we're like taking this break and i told him like i'm not worried like i didn't give any boundaries but i like i don't feel like he's gonna be talking to, but it is in the back of my head. And like, I admit I'm lonely. And so it's like,

at what point do you like, what is the allocated amount of time to like give somebody like, I feel like a jerk, but at the same time, it's like, it's like I'm broken up with somebody, but I can't heal yet because like I'm leaving the door open. And so it's just like this weird feeling where I feel vulnerable, but I have to be like this strong woman. And so I'm just like, I think this separation I'm in favor for this kind of vague, undefined

break is I'm not in favor of that. I think you guys need to get on the same page of what is this? What are you together? Are you not together? You know, you, you don't have to live together to be together. You don't have to spend every day together to be together. Right? You just have to figure out what you both are comfortable with. And you can go from there. You know? So I think, yeah, you're not helping yourself either.

Right? Because you're confusing yourself and it's okay. But I think step one is you need to decide, do you want him to be your boyfriend? Regardless of how much you see each other or how much you hang out, do you simply just want the expectation that you both are still in a committed relationship and not dating other people? That's step one. Two, if the answer is yes, what are you comfortable with in terms of how much you see each other? What are the expectations in this relationship? Let's try seeing each other. Let's

go on a date once a week. Let's check in with each other two other times a week. I don't know. I don't think there's any bad answers. Again, a therapist might have a different opinion. And just go from there and just set your, because right now you're just like, are we together? And then just go from there and just set your, because right now you're just like, are we together? Are we not? I don't know. And, and, and if you don't want to be together, that's also fine too. But like this, yeah, I would be, it would, it would be all consuming anything for anyone

to kind of be in this kind of limbo that you've created and hopes that, and also like, keep in mind, if he has work to do, it ain't going to happen overnight. Right? So you can't do what you're doing right now for any lengthy period of time. So you just have to decide for yourself, am I willing to be in this relationship as long as he's willing to consistently work on himself? And as long as he's willing to put in the work, I'm willing to give it a shot. And that could change any day. to give it a shot to, you know, and that, that could change any day. And then what are the expectations of this new defined relationship of how much time we spend together and whatever

expectations about hanging out with friends and things like that. And what am I comfortable with in terms of helping him? You know, like that's where you have to draw the line as someone who's like, you know, you've, you, you recognize that you may have felt victim of being the caregiver of fixing people always, you know, like you have to stop yourself from doing that and figure out what your limitations are and then go from there. And then if you want to be in the relationship, I, I, I still think couples therapy could go a long way. You don't, you could literally be in the relationship, see each other once a week. And there's no justification for needing or not needing couples therapy, you know? But if you want to be in this relationship,

regardless if he's also in individual therapy, I think couples therapy could really help you decide if this is what you want. Getting couples therapy isn't some sort of guarantee that you both have to stay together. Sometimes couples therapy just helps people realize that they don't want to be together or they're not right for each other. So you're making him no promises by getting couples therapy. It's just like taking the burden off of you of trying to be the person who's A, trying to decide what's best for the relationship and decide what's best for him and, you know, decide what's best for yourself. It can get exhausting. I mean, I guess that's why I thought him doing therapy instead and, you know, decide what's best for yourself, it can get exhausting.

I mean, I guess that's why I thought him doing therapy instead of, I mean, how I feel like we move as a, he like, he really a unit where I, what I want is what he wants instead of what he wants. Well, actually he's the one who wants couples therapy. You don't. So. True. It's true. So he did offer that and, and and you said no which is fine you have the right to but that was him trying to take ownership of this relationship that was you got to give him that credit you know so if you want him to see growth you also have to be

willing to give him credit i also wonder because it's you seem so emotionally intelligent and self-aware and like those are like hard-earned skills on your part and i'm curious for you like if you've kind of thought through in a like kind of thought through a breakup and gotten past that like for me if i'm thinking about ending something there's that like there's that like attachment that's like hell no no, like I can't break up with this person. And not in a and not in terms of like you have to move forward with it. But like I wonder if you've given yourself the full chance to explore how you might feel, whether you might feel relief. And also, as you are looking to explore like what a breakup would look like, think about the things that are like pushing back against that and say, would I want someone to be in a relationship with me for these reasons like if it's from a place of like I just I care so like

I feel so bad I feel so guilty like I don't want to abandon him like and then think like would I want someone to be in a relationship with me for these reasons and again like maybe it's the right thing to stay together but it just it just seems like you're doing so much emotional labor and it sounds really exhausting and tiring and you are so capable and talented it sounds like at giving care to people and at a certain point you reach a level of depletion where you're just not capable of that anymore and so it would be a real kindness to yourself and everyone in your life to try to explore like fully all the options and like what might put you in the best position to care for yourself and then in turn others i don't know i i felt like i did tell him that i felt exhausted but i it's like i can't help myself

like yeah i don't necessarily try to fix people but i don't know i have that empathy that's ridiculous but you have to wear that might be something you need to work on too you know like we're never finished products and you've come a long way, but like, you know, your, whatever guilt you feel for, for saying to anyone, that's something that's a you problem, not a me problem. I can't fix you and you need to do this on your own. Whatever guilt you feel for setting that boundary is, is I think something you could work on to not feel that, to not feel that to

not feel that struggle or that burden or pain or like you're abandoning them like you are not you do not owe people you're not letting them down more empathy than it you can give freely and you you sound like someone who gives empathy so freely yeah even at the beginning of this call you were like and I feel so bad despite listing out the ways you like didn't feel cared for what you were missing and you were like but I feel bad saying that despite listing out the ways you like didn't feel cared for what you were missing. And you were like, but I feel bad saying that. Like maybe just take that, take that kind of pressure off of yourself. Stop thinking about how it looks or how it sounds and focus more on how you feel and

what you're potentially lacking. You know, as long as you're, you're honest with him, you're faithful to him, you're considerate of his feelings. You have nothing to feel bad for. You can't help having your feelings change and you can't help realizing that your emotional needs aren't being met. As long as you are being honest and things like, you know what I'm saying? That's something that you can feel bad about if you fuck up. But like taking care of your own, like sacrificing your own emotional needs for someone else and feeling bad for that, that's something that doesn't help anyone.

And it's too risky of an investment, you know? Like it seems like maybe you're like, oh, I'm sacrificing this, but I'm hoping it will pay off down the line. But it's like, those are your retirement savings. Like don't put those in the stock market. Like keep them in the mutual fund or whatever else. Or no, that's wrong.

But you know what I mean, a Roth IRA. I guess i just feel like i'm in limbo now it's like i'm gonna feel guilty if you know like i don't know i used to have a situation for years and you know sometimes i'm just like want to hit that person up but then i just feel bad because it's like i have somebody who's genuinely working on themselves, like be better for me. And it's just like, what am I doing? He's not doing, I hope he's not doing this for you. And you shouldn't get anything from that. He should be doing it for himself.

So the guidelines of the break are very hard because I told him that if, you know, we were already seeing each other like on the weekends, like one day a week, but it got to the point where I feel like he was just waiting for that one day to see me. And that was just what he was looking forward to. So every week it was like,

Oh, I'm going to see her. And I don't know. I didn't want to give him my time for him to distract himself with when he gets to see me with, I don't know, going out and not worrying about us, like go hang out with your friends.

But now it's to the point where he's hanging out with friends, but he's drinking. So then it's just like, well, what if he hangs out with his ex and they talk about me and then all this other shit gets into my head. So I don't know. It's just not healthy. But at the same time, it's like, I did this. I don't know. It was so what? I mean, sure. you did this. You can undo it too. I definitely don't think this

limbo that you're in is sustainable. And I think you should end the limbo as soon as possible, whether that's just a clean break and you're no longer together. And that is what it is. And you accept that maybe right now, now's not the time for you to be together. And he has lots of work to do on himself. And that's going to take some time. It's not the time for you to be together and he has lots of work to do on himself and that's gonna take some time. It's not gonna take weeks or even a couple months and you're just not in a position to wait around and who knows what the future holds. Or you decide you do wanna be with him

and you are grateful that he's willing to work on himself for himself in hopes that it would benefit the relationship. And if you do wanna be with him, that's also great. And you can be with him and still be faithful to each other while having your own hobbies and separation. And again, if you're going to be with him, I think couples therapy would be a great way for you guys to continue to help each other set boundaries, help set expectations, help each other not feel bad about setting those boundaries and expectations. And then again, couples therapy might simply help you realize that maybe he's not the person you want to be with and help you not feel guilty for having those feelings. Because you're not doing anyone good by being with someone

that you're not happy being with. And he can be a good guy and a sweet guy, and he can have a good soul, but he could just not be in a position to give you the love that you need to feel loved and taken care of and secure and safe you know and i've kind of used a similar line with a different color but like we sometimes so like we we act like there's these like like trophies being handed out for being martyrs or like for being heroes or for like taking enduring yeah enduring you know like as if that means anything it doesn't really mean anything maybe it means something to our ego like i took care of this relationship i was the one who got us through it

but like it doesn't you know it's your relationship doesn't care who you know know, it's just, and if you're not, if your relationship is an energy vampire, then you're not going to be happy. It's not so much him. It's just like the dynamic of you two is sucking the life out of you. And that's, and you're not happy in this relationship. Then that's might not be anyone's fault, but like you deserve to be happy if you want in a relationship that you want to be in. And you you know every relationship has its ups and downs and you can deal with you know hey babe i'm feeling this can we work on this you know can we get through this okay great you know but you're you're just kind of beating yourself up um and and stuck in limbo and i i think you just need to make a decision one way or the other and know that

there's no wrong decision. There's no reason to feel bad. And you can feel sad, especially if you decide to leave. That's okay. That's healthy. That's normal. That's justifiable. But bad? For what? For realizing that your emotional needs are not being fulfilled in this relationship? And until he does a lot of work on himself, he's just not in a position to do that. But you shouldn't feel bad. You should, you know, you're doing him a favor. You're doing both of yourselves a favor by having the ability to set that boundary and enforce it, even if feelings are hurt in the short run. He's such a nice guy. And I just feel like I'm just beating him down.

Yeah. And you're not doing him any good. So. And you don't deserve to feel like that. You know, you deserve to be in a relationship where you feel like you're lifting a partner up. So maybe end the relationship for now. And yes, that's a risk. Who knows what he's going to do, but he needs to work on himself. And that might be a great, that might be easier for you to realize what does he really do when I'm no longer there? When he's, again, because doing it for you is that's not sustainable. He needs to want to work on himself, even if you're not in the picture. That's when you know he's really committed to working on himself. I mean, that's all. I just, I just know he's got, I don't know, there's more in there than he, I don't know. I just know he can be happier with himself because he's great. I just, I don't know, there's more in there than he, I don't know. I just know he can be happier with himself because he's great.

I just, I don't know. It's just sad to see him. So, I don't know. I feel like his last relationship, she really beat him down. She was a jerk. And I don't know. I mean, I just tried to lift him up, but I feel like he has to lift himself up too. Yeah.

Well, thanks for your time. I mean, I don't really know if I have much else hopefully this was helpful I don't know yeah but it's like the toughest situation like it feeling like you want to be there for someone and especially when they're nice and especially when you know what they've been through and especially because you see the potential and that just points to who you are doesn't necessarily mean you need to stay. It doesn't mean it's your job to figure this all out for him. Like you said, he has to do his part. He has to do his half of the relationship. And it doesn't make you a bad person. It doesn't make you like his ex because you're deciding to move on for your own sake and honestly for his own sake

too. He can't be relying on someone to do this for him. I feel like there's a part of you that because you feel bad and maybe that feel bad is knowing that maybe like you might have to leave the relationship but instead of doing that you're like torturing yourself well i guess it's just the chance of like what if it can be great it's just like am i being impatient you know but it's like nick said at one point if you invested a ton of money into a stock and it tanked and you've lost like five or 10K, are you going to say, well, I've already put five or 10K in. So why don't I just throw another like two to 5K in the hopes that it really turns around? And we would never do that financially, but we do that in relationships all the time where it's like, well, I put in so much.

So why don't I just see? There's also no perfect answer. Yeah. You know, like if you stay, you're going to gonna wonder if you made the wrong choice if you could be getting more if you feel resentful for him if you go you're gonna be wondering like if it was unfair for you to leave if you have been you know if that was the right choice if he's gonna have potential like and I think it's important to acknowledge that like there's gonna be shittiness in either direction so don't let that shittiness prevent you from making a choice because it's important to acknowledge that like there's going to be shittiness in either direction so don't let that shittiness prevent you from making a choice because it's like

that's the thing yeah I just need you just need to decide to do something because the limbo thing is that's what's really sucking you in the defining decade this book by this awesome psychologist she says you know sometimes like you feel like you're in the middle of the ocean and you don't know which way land is and you just got to pick a direction

and it's terrifying because you're like what if I'm swinging in the wrong fucking direction I could be swinging away from land but it's like you're in the middle of the ocean and you don't know which way land is and you just got to pick a direction. And it's terrifying because you're like, what if I'm swimming in the wrong fucking direction? I could be swimming away from land, but it's like, you got to swim in a direction. Yeah. I mean, that is kind of what it feels like. Yeah. You can always turn around, swim back the other way, you know?

Yeah. If it's meant to be, but like, you know, if you both regret a decision to move on, you'll find your way back to each other both regret a decision to move on you'll find your way back to each other and i have a feeling that you'll both be stronger more evolved people when you do turn back to it i guess that's where i that's i think that's why i said the break thing because i like don't want to miss out on something that could be great but at the same time it's tough to do this like i've never been on a break before let alone i don't know something that was

kind of my doing i don't know it's making me see a lot of things about myself but i guess that's growth i just i just don't know where to go from here so yeah some go we'll see go somewhere there's no wrong answer break up stay together but whatever you decide, follow through with it and see where it goes. If you stay together, I really highly recommend couples therapy. You're trying to do all the heavy lifting on your own and it's okay to say you can't. And if you want to move on, are you still in therapy? Yes.'s great awesome continue with that you know but uh if in your heart you think he's just not the person he needs to be despite his potential then maybe he's not the right fit for you right now potential doesn't really get you anywhere

i don't i feel like I have high expectations. Like, is anybody ever going to make me happy? So I don't know. I kind of feel like... I mean, I don't think you're being... It doesn't sound like you're being too picky with him. Expectations are high based on what you can give. Like, you probably have high expectations

because you expect to give a lot to people. And so, yeah, that might look like getting a lot, but that's because that's like the level that you want in a relationship. Also, I don't think any doubt about can I achieve what I want to should make you just stay in this and settle. That's not a reason to stay in a relationship. But it's tricky. It's really, really hard.

It's so fucking hard. And the worst is, like you said, because you are the one who asked for a break. And if you break up, the worst is you feeling sad and mourning the loss of something but then being like well i can't yell and scream at someone else it's my own damn fault but it doesn't mean it was the wrong decision it's just like god what am i supposed to do and you're doing it like in a for well-intentioned purposes which again you can get back together, you know, if that's something you'd both really feel is the right thing. But you shouldn't put your life on hold. If you break up, you should move, you should focus on moving on and let him, you know, proceed with his,

you know, self-improvement and not keep tabs on them. And that's a risk you're willing to make. And it's also okay to stay together for a few more months and see where it goes, but just stop this whole break stuff, which you're not even sure, even though it's your decision of what that even means. And that's the emotional vampire. Could he be hanging out with his ex-girlfriend

i'm not really concerned but maybe i don't know like would he do something who knows like oh my god like that would drive me nuts just pick a direction and know that you can change directions at any time and don't feel bad for prioritizing your emotional needs okay all right yeah thanks guys best of luck we would love an update therapy okay all right i'll give you an update thank you take care we're rooting you're doing all the right things all right bye-bye thank you how's it going good how are you good what's your name i'm katie and i'm 30 years old how can can we help Katie? I need some help figuring out if I should let my mom run my dating apps. No. Really?

All right. Have a good day. I mean, really? You're surprised? Why? Sell me. Sell me. Well, so I have like a typical like Jewish mother who is every intention.

For all non-Jew people out there. What is a typical Jewish mother? I don't know. They're just like overly caring and just wanting the best for their kids, I guess. Very hands on and involved in the success of their children. I've heard Catholic mothers and Jewish mothers are somewhat similar. I think traditional, more conservative, faith-based parents can disguise their controllingness with love and religion.

That's my guess. Yeah, no, that's true. They're typically not a fan of boundaries. Yeah, no. I mean, that's definitely something i'm working on with my therapist but and i also haven't told her about this yet which i will um tell her about what so about her running my dating apps she doesn't know she's doing you haven't told her therapist no my therapist you think your mom the mom is unaware she's running? Yeah. No, she definitely knows.

Okay. Can you walk us through how this happened? Okay. So I've been on the dating apps for a few years now, and I really haven't met anyone that was worth dating. So my mom thought that maybe it would be a good idea for her to go on some apps that I'm not already on and her and like allow her to pick out people for me, which I didn't think was like the worst idea. I mean, like my mom knows me really well. She has good taste.

She loves doing this. She actually has a good background of setting people up. I mean, granted, she knows each person, but I don't know. And she also just has so much fun with this. And I was just wanting to like give her something like some joy. And it also is to help me a little bit. But we are running into the problem of when I were, or when she does match with someone like, and they messaged me, my mom doesn't know like what to say back or if she should even answer.

And I don't really know what to say. Well, I kind of think you're getting levels of like, it's just fucking weird to be, you know, there's a level of distrust there, you know, like I was talking to my mom. Well, I was, like it's it's fucking weird to be you know there's a level of distrust yeah you know like

i was talking about mom like well i was i was kind of thinking of it as like a like a matchmaker because like that's basically what a matchmaker kind of does and well your mom's not a matchmaker i know yeah she's not also and she's your mom and there's a there's some blurred lines of there's a conflict of interest yeah but she wants to get her yenta on and yeah yeah listen if it's something you guys could do for fun you know you could sell me on this is like a bonding experience for me and my mom we have some drinks about it it's fun at the end of the day but it's for fun and at the end of the day there are certain boundaries i have and things I've like said, hey, I'm okay with this. I'm not okay with that.

If you want to swipe right, fine. But I'm initiating the conversations. Okay. You know, also you don't really get an opinion past swiping right or some version of that. I'll ask you your thoughts if I want to know them and you are welcome to give them to me, but I am a 30 year

old adult woman. So I'm going to go ahead and make choices for myself. Yeah, no, I agree with that. So I guess like the whole thing is just like what I'm in her presence. That's when like, we can go on the apps and she can swipe right or whatever sure but just when it's separate like because that's where we get into the problem where like she'll match someone and i'm not there listen like i think in adult life yeah i feel like it's really healthy to be able to confidently say no to your parents yeah when we're minors and there are parents like we're literally not allowed to say no so i can understand that as we get into adulthood that seems fucked up and foreign to us and it seems even more fucked up and foreign to parents

they're like yeah i don't give a shit like i'm your i gave you life i can take it away and all that shit i'm sure all like all parents have said and shit like that reality is is you know um you do have the right to say no now listen i don't know what if you know there's ways that parents can manipulate power into their adult children through like finances and things like that and helping them take care of them and you know there's a little bit of there can be a weird power dynamic there, but all that aside, it's healthy to be able to say no to mom and dad, even if, you know,

and no is, you know, Hey, please don't do this. You know, these are the rules of, of, of this interaction.

Yeah. Et cetera, et cetera. Okay. I, yeah, I like that. Do you feel like you can do that with mom?

Yeah, no, definitely. I think like she'll be a little hurt, but like, that's okay. I mean, when we're together in the same room, like she'll all allow her to like go onto my apps on my phone and like, let her just like swipe right. But that's about it. And so I guess like but that's about it and so i guess like that's where i'll draw the line she'll be fine yeah yeah don't let her guilt you into nothing i know i'm i'm easy to um guilt into things like this especially since i i mean like i'm fine with the apps it's just like i've been on them for so long so i'm just like great someone else wants to do it for me. That's all fine. But like once you get in the weeds of you're too afraid to disappoint mom or tell mom no, and it's crossing a level of comfort for you, then you need to be able to speak up for yourself and say no to mom and set some rules. And the moment you feel like you can't, then you know

that that situation is not healthy or right or uncomfortable. So like, you know, it's, you're not, your uncomfortability with the situation isn't trumped by your mom's comfortability just because it's your mom. Yeah. It wasn't like in an uncomfortable thing. well now what that like that's just kind of where i was like confused about where to go because i didn't want her to respond to these people because she was my mom and it just was weird and so i was like well thinking of all these things and then that's when i wrote it and i was like well maybe i can get his opinion and um yeah i think again if it's and i told my mom that i was coming on i told my mom i was coming on she was like let him know that i'm just that i am just doing this for you and this is like out of fun

and it's not she's doing it for herself which is also okay it's fun yeah friends it's different yeah but i like this idea of like have it be something you do together in the same room. If she wants to be involved and like pour some wine and do it together, as opposed to her, like swiping in bed next to your dad, who's asleep and like messaging all these people. And playfully get your mom to acknowledge that she's doing it for herself. Yeah.

She's not some sort of martyr. I'm sure she wants you to be happy and I'm sure she wants you to be happy and I'm sure she wants you to find some person and I'm sure she thinks she can add value but like to suggest that her only motive is for you and she doesn't get some sort of satisfaction out of this

is bullshit oh yeah of course it gives her something to do and that's also okay it's fine like it's great I'm glad this is something we can share together but there are some rules and I need you to follow Of course, it gives her something to do. And that's also okay. It's fine. Yeah. Like, it's great. I'm glad this is something we can share together. But there are some rules and I need you to follow. Okay.

Yeah. Okay. I like that. Doing it when we're together and that's it. Yeah. And if you don't follow the rules, I'm going to cut you off. Okay. Because at the end of the day, I want to be in control of my dating life. And I'm happy to help you.

I'm happy to have help. And I'm happy to to have input and I'm happy to have a matchmaker, but I want to feel empowered to make the final say on who I date and who I don't. Yeah. I think sometimes she also thinks that I'm being a little bit too picky. And that's where your mom can help. When you do it together, she can encourage you to get out of your comfort zone that's fine but at the end of the day it's your call whatever your rules are that's between you and your mom the point is yeah you need to have rules and she needs to abide by them okay i like that okay yeah that sounds good all right keep us Keep us posted. All right, well, thank you. Yeah, we want an update if there's anyone you end up going on a date with that originally your mom found for you. She will not shut up.

At the wedding. She wants one of those little signs on the... You know when people do matchmaker on the back of the chair? We could make one for your mom. Mother of your bride. Oh, she would love that. She would love that. Oh, my gosh. gosh well thank you so much our pleasure all right tell mom i said hi

all right all right yeah bye-bye thanks for listening don't forget to check out our episode with raven ross on going deeper to talk about all the drama that unfolded with her and SK. We really get into the weeds, really find out everything. All the questions you've been wondering and more, we have the answers. Also, happy Valentine's Day.

I'll see you at The Grove on February 14th, 6 p.m. Better date than never, 9 p.m. Eastern. We'll see you back tomorrow for another recap of The Bachelor. And your All-Air Valentines. Yeah!