The Viall Files - E544 Bachelor Recap with Jason Ritter

Episode Date: February 21, 2023

Welcome back to another episode of The Viall Files: Bachelor Recap Edition! We’re joined by actor and producer, Jason Ritter! to discuss the fifth episode of Zach’s season. We start out by covering the week’s Bachelor Tea, including Erich Schwer’s new romance and rumors of Chris Harrison returning to ABC. We then dive into this week’s episode and discuss Gabi’s 1:1 date in London, and if this means she will be Zach’s final rose pick. Or will Kaity’s care package push her to the front of the line? After the group date and Charity’s 1:1 date were canceled, we predict next week’s dates and how long Zach and Greer’s relationship will last.  “If Zach is telling that to the women, he’s lying to them.”  If you are interested in running a book club in your city, send an email to: [e-mail]   Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes. Join us for our new LIVE show on Thursdays at 9PM ET/6PM PT on Amp, available in the Apple app store. Android User? Listen here: https://www.onamp.com/ To Order Nick’s Book Go To: http://www.viallfiles.com If you would like to get some texting advice on Office Hours send an email to [e-mail] with “Texting Office Hours” in the subject line! To advertise on the show, contact [e-mail] or visit https://www.advertisecast.com/TheViallFiles THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Athletic Greens - If you’re looking for an easier way to take supplements, Athletic Greens is giving you a FREE 1-year supply of Vitamin D AND 5 free travel packs with your first purchase. Go to http://www.Athleticgreens.com/VIALLFILES. ZBiotics - Go to http://www.zbiotics.com/VIALL to get 15% off your first order when you use VIALL at checkout. ZBiotics is backed with 100% money back guarantee so if you’re unsatisfied for any reason, they’ll refund your money, no questions asked.  Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @jason_ritter @alison.vandam @liffordthebigreddog

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Welcome back to another extraordinary episode of The Vile Files Bachelor Recap Edition. I'm your host, Nick, joined by Allie and Amanda and a man named Derek, who now officially has a microphone in his face. Testing one, two, three. There you go, there's Derek. How are you, ladies?

How is everyone doing? Good, thriving. Thriving? Yeah. Before we started this episode, our special guest, Jason Ritter. Hello. Hi, Jason. How are you? Hi.

It's so good to see you. Welcome back. Thanks for having me. It's really great to see you, man. It's really great to see you, too. You're a comforting presence. Oh, thanks. Just a good energy. Yeah.

We were talking about Guy Ferrari? Fieri. Fieri? Yeah. You wanted to say Guy Ferrari so badly. I did. That's his brother. And apparently he's a saint.

That's what I've heard. As far as I understand, the more I've looked into it, he's like an amazing person who I feel like, well, Flavortown is something he keeps talking about. I think I heard that Flavortown is a real place. Well, he's always like, let's go to Flavortown. Well, his restaurants are Flavortown. They're called Flavortown is a real place. He's always like, let's go to Flavortown. Well, his restaurants are Flavortown. They're called Flavortown?

Or is that just like a motto? I think it's like your happy mentality. Don't let life get you down. It's Flavortown. It's like a state of mind. Go to your Flavortown. Everything tastes good in Flavortown. I imagine.

Don't be sad. Go to Flavortown. Now, I might be creating something, but is Flavortown a real place? Yes. Like Dollywood? Yes. He's created his own amusement park.

There's Flavortown Kitchen. Oh, Flavortown Kitchen. It's like a restaurant. There's one in Vegas. I know this because I'm going to Vegas in May, and one of my friends is so obsessed with Guy Fieri that we had to add it to the agenda. Oh, yeah.

What part is she obsessed with? His charitable organizations organizations i think everything from the personality to the frosted tips like just like there are no flaws when it comes to her love for guy he is authentically himself that's true every single day he wakes up and chooses to choose his flavor he's on brand yeah he he absolutely is and it's funny because it's like you know how how there are are some poison frogs in the wild that have a certain thing that's like, don't get near me or whatever, like predators.

That was what his general vibe did to me at first. I was like, I don't think we're a similar. But then the more I found out about what's underneath all of that, the more I appreciated. The bleach blonde hair and the Oakley glasses. Generally, I see frosted tips out in the wild and I go, uh-uh. Yeah.

Is that your favorite? Do people have other favorite celebrity chefs? Because I feel like it's such a niche topic. Is it as big as it felt when I was a kid when it was Gordon, Ramsey, Hell's Kitchen, all that stuff felt like it was in his heyday. Who's the blonde British guy? Naked Chef.

Jamie Oliver? Jamie Oliver. Jamie Oliver, first time I was in New York, I was 28. We got to go to David Letterman, and he was one of the guests on the show. He seems like a cool person. Who was the other guest? Ben Affleck. Oh!

Never heard of him again. And Justin Bieber was the musical guest. Wow! Holy cow! I remember, yeah, and I remember at the time we got offered these tickets.

You know, we stayed in Times Square. Like, it was my first time in New York. Oh my gosh, that's amazing. It was like very touristy. That's so cool. And I was like,

oh, who's the musical guest? They're like, oh, it's Justin Bieber. This was back in, she, 2008? Oh, wow. Wow. And I was like, oh, who's the musical guest? They're like, oh, it's Justin Bieber. This was back in 2008. Oh, wow. Wow. 2007-ish.

So I knew who Justin Bieber was. They're like, oh, yesterday was Michael Buble. I was like, oh, man, that would have been cool. Now you got some YouTube guy. Now I got some kid. And I remember he came out. I was like, this motherfucker can dance and sing. I was very taken back by the Biebs.

Did you see that document? You know, like Never Say Never? I have not seen it. Oh, well, as a person who doesn't know a lot about Justin Bieber, it was the first time that I had seen some of his young videos where he's 11 or 12 and he's like

a very good singer, very talented young man. Very talented, yeah. Who's the guy... He'd think he Yeah. No, but who's the guy? He like, he was, I think he's nicer now, but he would yell at. Gordon Ramsay. Is that Gordon Ramsay? Oh, yeah. Gordon Ramsay.

Idiot sandwich. I like Gordon Ramsay. Yeah. I feel like you have a similar approach to Gordon Ramsay when it comes to relationship advice, like tough but fair. Sure. Yeah. I think he was a little more toxic.

Sure. He had a bit more flair a little bit more flair i think he's toned it down though i feel like the way you were with the way nick's eyes just bugged out was like that's my favorite employees are telling me i have a similar toxic style to the gordon ramsay yeah no it's a little concerning it's just the screaming it's just the screaming the intensity to Gordon Ramsay? Yeah, no, that was a little concerning. Yeah. It's just the screaming. It's just the screaming. The intensity.

Just the fear instilled in everyone's heart the second you walk in the door. Yeah. Oh, gosh. I mean, I do know I can make people feel uncomfortable by saying nothing.

Yeah, that is a superpower that I have yet to harness. I will fill any silence with something. But there is power in just keeping quiet. It's just impossible for me. That's okay. I agree.

You have wonderful characteristics. Anything else new in life before we dive into the Bachelor world? No, not really. Our daughter's starting school. That's a very exciting thing. The bachelor world? No, not really. Our daughter's starting school. That's a very exciting thing. I'm looking forward to and also kind of like I feel a bit weird about the fact that she's going to be somewhere else for most of the day. I'll be like, what did I do?

Are you getting worried? Yeah, what did I do when I was by myself? Or when we were alone, when we had all this time. There's going to be no one to play with. I'm going to have to figure out. You need a new buddy. I need a new buddy. I am available.

Okay, cool. We got some blocks. We got all sorts of stuff. I could use a play date, honestly. Let's do it. Not kidding. Let's do it. I'm a routine guy. I love a good routine,

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and you're just tired of feeling crappy, you have no reason not to try. Remember to head to zbiotics.com slash V-I-A-L-L and use code V-I-A-L-L at checkout for 15% off. Thank you, Zbiotics, for sponsoring this episode. A couple housekeeping notes before we get into the episode. Francesca Farago. She's one of the Netflix elites.

She has gone from show to show. Well, now she's on Perfect Match. Great show on Netflix. Check it out. I want to see that. It's good. It's good. We'll be talking with her

covering that on this week on Going Deeper on Thursday. If you haven't checked out the Raven episode, be sure to check it out. Almost everyone listened to it. Yeah. Over eight. Closing on a million people listened to that episode, Jason. Holy cow.

Yeah. Dang. That's amazing. That's amazing. Ever. Well, now this one. This will definitely be the episode. But if you like tea, not that anyone, I was about to say, if like his stories about getting cheated on no um but i think uh we really appreciate raven it was she really

stepped up and shared her truth and it wasn't easy for her and uh i know she appreciates all the love you're sending her way and i'd love to see more of that and less kind of uh you know any hatred directed towards anyone else not that we're Team SK or anything like that, but... Oh, yeah. Yeah, the love is blind, yeah. Yeah, that, I saw, yeah. It was wild stuff. That was wild stuff, and I, yeah.

Most people aren't as generous with the truth as Raven was. She seems, I mean, throughout that whole season, I was like, this person is amazing. Like, she really clocked, I mean, throughout that whole season, I was like, this person is amazing. Like she really clocked. I don't know. For someone who works that hard on their body and she didn't seem to have that extended outwards to other people. You know, a lot of times people who work very hard on their body are very judgmental or weird or something. And she just was like, no, this is for me.

And I don't appreciate when you know i liked it when she was with bartista in the beginning she was like this is not enough to build a relationship on totally you know um and i just the whole time i i thought sk and her relationship was so wonderful i know i i was like super into that relationship at the time but yeah bummer. Infidelity, it's a crazy and horrible thing. And, you know, there's it's a it's an interesting discussion to, you know, why people do what they do and whatever trauma they might have in the past. For sure. Who knows? But I feel like we also have this societal narrative that it's like they cheat, you leave right away. And I think it's like interesting. i think that's really reductive and i think it creates like a lot of like in my own experience it created the sense

of like shame and like at a time when i most needed to confide in friends and feel understood having this like oh well if i'm not going to do the right thing so to speak then like i should be kind of embarrassed and it just like filtered what i would share and i think with raven it was so special to hear someone be like truly honest about how many competing sides there are, how there's not only this hurt, but there's this desire to like salvage and like. Yeah. Yeah. It's really beautiful to to be that honest and not just to be like, this is my experience for better or for worse. And it can't quite be put in like a neat, tidy little box.

Yeah, because nowadays it's like, you know, anyone who lies or manipulates or, let's say, cheats in this world, they're a narcissist. They're this or that. Where things aren't as black or white. It's not an excuse, but maybe they have some unresolved trauma or whatever they're doing and they're projecting it in a very toxic

and hurtful way not only to themselves, but the people they say they care for. And so depending on how, to Amanda's point, when stuff like this comes out, yeah, it's, it's a process and people need to work through those emotions. I mean, you know, when you find out stuff like this is happening, it's, you're, you can be in a state of shock, I think for some people. Absolutely. And so, yeah, they have to work through some of those emotions. That's how you grow. Yeah. You know, and I mean, from afar, I would imagine that SK is just like kicking himself and like,

how did I do that? You know, I don't, I don't know. But I. You hope. Yeah, right. You know, and this is something that he'll have to go through and be accountable for his actions. And hopefully it's an impetus for

change you know yeah and in his life and he he grows from this and he doesn't continue it's what it's it's one thing when this is like a repeated pattern for someone and they never grow and they never change and they never yeah they could make you know and we can all make excuses for certain choices yes or you can like say like yeah can say, these decisions I made affected a lot of people and I need to do some about it before I keep having this pattern. Yeah. But there's a real fear of accountability in general. People are so nervous about being accountable that they'll be like, I didn't do anything

wrong. Especially in situations where you're not the main offender. Oh, yeah, yeah. wrong especially in situations where you're not the main offender oh yeah yeah you know especially if you're like an accomplice like a friend you know we actually had a caller on the on the raven episode for our texting office hours her friend was cheating on her boyfriend and it's been an interesting discussion where a lot of people just like oh well that they people are quick to separate themselves right from any yeah any wrongdoing and it's just like well it wasn't really it's not really my business people are quick to like mention how any wrongdoing. And it's just like, well, it's not really my business. People are quick to mention how things aren't their business when it doesn't

serve them well or things like that. And I was thinking about that with the Raven episode too, because what I was so grateful for Raven sharing is that I think when it comes to infidelity, people do feel really alone because part of it is the shame and the embarrassment of having been cheated on so a lot of people don't want to talk about it and which is totally understandable you don't want to like you know like not everything that happens in your world you need to you know whether you're a public figure or not you need to share with everyone you know you have to make sure that you're telling the right people or people who can support whatever it is you're trying to do maybe you're working through therapy or whatever but so many people just don't talk about it and put it out there and with raven

doing it was just nice to see so many comments from people who've experienced you know similar situations or infidelity at all to feel like they're not alone because i think when when you are cheated on it's a very lonely feeling because very few people are out there waving their hands saying you know i'm i'm like this too this has happened to me yeah um and not that everyone needs to but when someone like raven shares that it's i think it's very uplifting for a lot of people absolutely one and also it's like i think one of the things that we can do if if someone has cheated on us uh is we can think what what did i do wrong what's wrong with me and so often it's about it's it like is just something in the other person's mind it's not a deficiency of character

or of beauty even though you know it's their fault there's like well what's wrong with me that i didn't i do i wasn't enough yeah it's weird you can think oh well i know this is not my fault but like the ego still creeps in. Yeah, exactly. And you can still feel like, well, if I could have done this, or why wasn't this enough, or yada, yada, yada. But you're right. It's truly just a flaw in the people who cheat

and a very kind of, to oversimplify, kind of toxic reaction to whatever they're experiencing internally. Right, yeah. And they kind of do these things, whether it's a need for attention whether it's um you know a million different things but yeah it's a it's a very tricky uh topic and situation but we we appreciate raven a lot that was a devastating finale yeah moment uh anyway let's get uh let's let's get into it all right hold on to your kilts deariesock original The Traitors is back with a new season of strategy, betrayal, sabotage, and murder. This killer season features an all-new celebrity cast that Vulture hailed as reality royalty,

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Stream every episode of Traders now only on Peacock. Ladies and gentlemen. What are you doing? What do you mean? I'm making it. Just keep it simple. I'm making the promo. Just keep it simple.

Just say, hey, we're the Brav Bros. Two guys that talk about Bravo. Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, we're the Brav Bros. No. Oh. Dude, stop with the voice. Just keep it simple. I've seen promos on TV, dude.

This is how you get the fans engaged. This is how you get listeners. We're trying to get listeners here. If we just say, oh, we're two dudes that talk about Bravo, people are going to get tired of it already. We need some oomph. All right, then fine. Let's try to do it with your voice. Bravo, bros. Good job. Let's start with some bachelor tea. Eric Schwer is dating. I think the last time we talked about Eric Schwer, he was saying that he was ready to date,

but was taking it slow. So maybe that was just him easing us into the fact that he is dating uh model elizabeth turner and they posted on valentine's day they posted a polaroid and the caption just said valentine and then there was also a photo of elizabeth's kissing her kissing him on the cheek and so yeah happily in a relationship three months after gabby sometimes you post a picture of your friend and you put Valentine underneath. Do you kiss your friend? Sometimes. Sometimes, yeah.

It sounds like Eric's doing well on the rebound, you know? Yeah. That makes me feel like also Valentine should be a separate relationship status before you define the relationship because I do feel like we're at this void where there's so many situationships in today's day and age or people are just like dating for longer and I do feel like we need a word for like yeah we don't have anything like we're not boyfriend girlfriend there's no kind of like discussion of exclusivity but we're clearly each other's like central focus like you're Valentine I feel like I've heard of multiple couples multiple couples this year

I that I know or like have seen posted online have asked each other to be their valentine despite exclusively dating some of them are even married like people are just throwing it in as like an extra like a prom situation ships though are i think they're avoiding well but that's what i'm saying though like we need like there are all these intermediary ways to be entangled with someone that's not in an exclusive relationship yeah exemplified by situationships gotcha and then valentine's day becomes a sort of a point of like let's talk about what this is yeah yeah a lot of a lot of so now that you're my valentine breaking up that was one of my favorite things about covid was like you could get really honest really quickly about if you were seeing other people because it was like am i being exposed to other people like we need to have a like an open conversation about this and it's

really fucked up if you lie to me because like this is about like health and safety absolutely rock how big is your bubble it rocked i still think people lied i think that's fucked up i luckily was just uh alone we just i was just alone. I was so paranoid. I think one of my first forays out into the world after COVID was your podcast. Really? I was so super- Oh, that's right.

I remember that. I wore a mask and then I took it off and I was like, I think I'm okay. Very scary time. Well, you're here. And now I'm here. All right. Love that.

And we have an episode all about it. There we go. Yeah. All right. Love that. And we have an episode all about it. There we go. Yeah. Final thing, there were some rumors going around that Chris Harrison might be brought back to host The Bachelor due to dwindling ratings and that ABC was thinking about it. Since then, ABC has denied considering rehiring Chris

as the host. But I did think it was interesting. Ari actually tweeted back to one of the rumors saying, could this be true? May have to watch again if so. And also he posted what looked like Lauren was almost filming like a confessional style setup and tagged ABC Network in it. Who knows? So I just thought it was interesting that they're working with ABC. And then he's tweeting back saying like, maybe'll start watching the show if chris comes back so

yeah i don't know how close are you there i have no idea and i don't think it's a coincidence that it got out is all i'm saying you know when stories like this get out i think it's a behooves you to think who benefits from this leak the most testing the waters do you think there was some kind of sort of like listen like no one watches The Bachelor for the host. No one ever watched The Bachelor for Chris Harrison. Ever. Never. Never.

And that's not a criticism to Chris Harrison. All he does is come out and tell you how, like he counts for you. And when they replace Chris with Jesse, Jesse's a great host.

He is literally a Chris replacement. Right. If they wanted to have the host be more of a part of their show, if they wanted to be someone that they marketed to their audience as a reason to watch, they would have found a way to keep Caitlyn or Antatia. Right.

Or they would maybe think to have one of their alumni who's more of a prominent character on their show, like a Wells or whatever. Oh, right. Or they would have done something to mix it up, but they didn't. They picked, again, not a criticism to Jesse, the most kind of closest thing to Chris. And he's just the host. He's their facilitate and drive the story forward.

Yeah, they would once in a while sit down and offer like quote unquote advice. You know, Jesse during Clayton season was kind of like, hey man, you want to talk about it? And then Clayton would say some things and Jesse would be like, oh, that sucks. Well, good luck. You know, like. Yeah, they can't like alter the course of,

you know, they're just trying to be a sort of a sounding board, but that's not necessarily like. Yeah. And it's so stupid because like, again, like here's the thing about The Bachelor. It's been around for so long forever and people age out they just age out you know we with this show you know our show has only gotten bigger and bigger but there's a lot of people i'm sure who used to listen to the show who no longer do that people knew we get new audience and subscribers

to the show every day right i'm sure we lose followers every day and it's it's always funny when people talk about how like oh the ratings it's like just because you aged out of the show like doesn't mean no one cares about it anymore right i think people like especially if if they're you're if they're a journalist or a writer in the pop culture space like once you decide that like this that the show no longer serves you, because yeah, listen, it's the same fucking show every season. Right.

And it would make sense that after a while, you might get bachelor fatigue and burnout and just maybe this isn't for you anymore. Maybe you started watching it when you were 18, you watched every season until you're 26, 27, and now it's not your thing, which is totally fine. Totally fine. But people act like just because

they've aged out of the show that it no longer is a good which is totally fine. Totally fine. But people act like just because they've aged out of the show that it no longer is a good show and people don't enjoy it. They act like they're a father walking out on their family

being like, I am going to leave and not watch this again. I'm leaving and I'm not coming back. It's like as if there will be this devastating hole in Bachelor Nation.

Where's Jerry? Everyone's going to follow them because they're done with it, you know? Yeah, yeah. And now they always will cite the ratings. It's just like the Nielsen ratings or whatever it was are meaningless nowadays.

They still exist, but they don't really tell you anything. More and more people are watching The Bachelor on Hulu, not live. People have always watched the show in kind of groups or watch parties. People have always watched the show in groups or watch parties. All I know is that the show, The Bachelor, is making, I said this last week or the week before, ABC and Warner Brothers more money than any other show that they have, and it's not even close. The show is not going anywhere.

And just because you've stopped watching it, people are just making a big deal. I've never seen so many articles about a show doing poorly and yet you know what i'm saying but like yet there's every season there's always these new articles about like the demise of the franchising yet it doesn't go anywhere and they keep like bringing on new shows now they have bachelor senior they're gonna do like but people are they i've seen i've seen trailers for bachelor senior and i'm so excited do they keep dying or what yeah that's all that's well i think

they started advertising it during it was before covid yeah and we had to keep those older people safe okay put a big wrench in it i really want to see that just like go to a nursing home like i feel like there is already... I feel like nursing homes are infamous for the love triangles, the drama, the sex that's happening. The sex? I don't know.

Yeah, I think there's a lot of sex. With Viagra and stuff, I think there's no longer a... But even like this show, our Bachelor recaps have never been more popular. So it's like clearly people aren't watching it less. It's just such a silly narrative. I think it just speaks to like the success of the show because people, when they're not watching it,

want to find ways to like- Fault it or- Criticize or whatever. And the show clearly has flaws, but it's just like Jesse, they love Jesse. He's not going anywhere. And Jesse replacing Chris, like it would bring back like 20, 25, 50 OG Bachelor fans.

No one stopped watching it because Chris Harrison had fire. I know, I know. It's such a strange, there was no big clamoring of like, no, the shows will change. It was so super fun with Tayshia and Caitlin and Jesse's doing fine and there's no need to go backwards. You know, just like this episode where Jesse

kind of had that like pointless comment to Katie about like her being a nurse. I'm sorry, aren't there like 12 nurses? I know. Why was Katie selected? This is a damn traveling hospital. Chris wouldmas the same things too it's just like you know and again like thank you for all the nurses out there and what you've done

on the front lines during the pandemic but the when he was like katie you're a nurse you know how serious this is as if as if katie needed to relay the message to the rest of the women of how serious is the covid is i'm like we literally lived through a pandemic like if you don't know by now that it's a serious thing i don't know if katie's gonna be able to relay that message you know they probably just got told to say it like they're not the focus of of the show they never have been they deliberately don't want their host to be the focus of the show like people aren't tuning in to watch the host it's like a deliberate attempt on the on the show like people aren't tuning in to watch the host it's like a deliberate attempt on the on the show so like no host is saving the show yeah it's a strange it's a strange like uh there's

no reason to be having the argument in the first place do you think it's coming from chris harrison's camp i i don't i i think on stories like these you always want to ask yourself, who does it serve most? I do feel like it's a friend who's like, it would be crazy if I got another round of drinks, right? Yeah, exactly. Like, you know, like, I am the friend. Someone tell me I shouldn't. Someone tell me I shouldn't.

Exactly. But maybe there's another show he's, you know, he could be hosting something else. What if he goes back to HGTV sure I mean eventually I think Chris is gonna get work as a host

somewhere eventually yeah yeah I don't think The Bachelor needs to be like a saving Chris Harrison

eventually you know he's a veteran you know he's probably having a certain amount of fun enjoying his time.

He can travel and, you know, spend some of the money he undoubtedly made over however many. Well, that payout, his payout to not come back was at least like 10 mil or something. Well, that too. So I think he's probably just like, all right. Lawyers got 30 or 40% of that

and the government got another big chunk of that. Aw, poor Chris. I feel like he's just just like all right lawyers got 30 or 40 of that and the government got another there you go big chunk of that oh poor chris i feel like he's just gonna come back and surprise host the senior bachelor oh see that would be fine can you imagine the senior bachelor the shit they would turn up oh my god like we're already seeing stuff from people who were like in the like kids in the 90s So you tweeted in the 1940s that- I'm sorry. I actually can't say any of these words on national television. You called your best friend a what? We found these old missives in your basement.

And that's the only- Now, when you were in the war. Yeah. I just pray that they do final bingo balls instead of final roses. Oh, that would be cute. Aww. Derek, can we get a sound effect for the great joke? Or like the roses are just like dried.

Nicely done. Perfect. All right, let's, anyway, Chris is not gonna be the host of The Bachelor anytime soon. Well. It's my prediction. I feel. God rest his soul. Yeah. Shall we get into the episode?

He's not dead. To us. To you, I guess. The old Chris can't come to the phone right now. Why? Because he's dead. Chris's version. Anyway, so tea. Tea.

Everyone wanted to do an accent. Oh, yeah. Everyone thought they were good at it. Yeah. Can you do the rest of the episode? I was actually going to insist that we all do a little accent. And have people vote in the comments for who is the worst. I already know.

Yeah, I certainly. When we were watching the episode last night, Melanie was like, so Americans just do this, huh? They just go for the accent just no matter what? Is Melanie not American? No, she's from New Zealand. She just can do a perfect American accent,

but it's very surprising to a lot of... Because you haven't met her in person yet, but yeah, all of her like roles she's always playing an american but it is fun and i have seen it like when people when she's like oh i'm from new zealand they're like oh you know yeah i'm just like do that good night it doesn't matter especially in australia yeah okay let's put another shrimp on the barbie. Yeah. We do. Everyone loves a good shrimp.

I was like, yes, we do do that. Yeah. We do. We are the worst. We are the problem. Anyway, so they go to London. Yeah. And everyone's excited.

Greer is hoping. For tea. For tea. Yeah. Tattooed of tea. Yeah, she loves tea. I'm convinced that that tattoo of a teacup that Greer has that she sold to

Bachelor Nation is how much she loves tea. She went to one of those, like, she went to a party where they had a tattoo. Stick and poke? They had a tattoo artist doing, like, super small tattoos, and she's like, should I get a should I get my first tattoo? Should I do it, guys? She's like, nobody tell me to get a teacup tattooed

on my wrist. Nobody tell me to do that. And the tattoo artist had like a sheet of all these different tattoos you could do that were really small and she went teacup. And it was probably at the time coffee. And she would talk about how much she liked coffee and now she's convincing us that it's tea.

I'm convinced that that's what that is. I mean, I never, I actually, it's interesting. I never thought about the moments leading up to her getting that tattoo or if it's something that she just she just i mean well she seemed she seemed to say that there was something like it was a thing in her family right yeah like a calming thing in her family yeah like a ritual like they all drank tea together they drank tea so maybe they came out of a horrible period of time

and tea like saved them. Yeah, or she missed her parents while she was living in like New York or wherever, cosmopolitan somewhere. I think she's making it up. But that is kind of,

it is interesting to be like, have such a versatile tattoo and to tell people different things are in it. What if she just loves gossip? She's like, need some tea. Give me the tea.

It's a versatile tattoo. She and her college girlfriends were like, spill the tea, sis. All got it on wrist. And they had a little move where they spilled it. Oh my God, the wrist. Yeah, you could just be like, uh. Figured it out.

Brilliant secret handshake. Exactly. Every handshake spills the tea. So yeah, so what's our, Gabby finally gets a one-on-one yeah does this not is gabby not the winner yeah the last two people who got this date were suzy and rachel corconnell oh wow it's telling i mean well yeah also like rear like this episode yeah obviously it wasn't her best moment she didn't't really do anything wrong, but she was obnoxious.

And it's like, the whole time she was like, this is my dream date. I'm like, this is the bachelor dream date. This is it. This is everyone's dream date. Right, right, right. To go, to be pampered and taken out on a shopping spree and get all the gifts.

Signature scent. Treated like a princess. That is everyone's favorite date. And Greer's acting as if like, no, no, no. This is my date. I've dreamt this. None of you would appreciate this as much as I would. And I'm just like, there's not a single person in this room

who's not thinking, oh my God. That would have been nice. That would have been nice. This would have been nice. Like, I would have liked this. I don't. I always am surprised. Every once in a while, there's like a person on the show who it feels like they have never seen the show

or they don't understand that like other dates happen and it's awkward and that, you know, like that jealousy feelings are going to come up. They're always like, how could he do this to me? And it's like, well jealousy feelings are gonna come up. They're always like, how could he do this to me? And it's like, well, these are the rules. He has to do this. What I really loved about this dynamic between Gabby and Greer,

Gabby has her celebrity comp, Sandra Bullock. Interesting. Like similar? I'm not saying she looks like her. They have brown hair, so there's that. But yeah, the spunk and obviously Gabby's a very beautiful person, but she's more on the kind of cute, kind of fun, quirky side. I think she has a Sandra Bullock kind of energy to her.

And I think when you kind of juxtaposition it with greer greer i think kind of comes across as the more kind of like greer was the popular girl in high school and i feel like gabby i'm sure i had plenty of friends you know yeah really i feel like greer was like that stunning girl on like the competitive math team why do you think she was on the math team i think she was i think she was like smart and kind of nerdy in high school and i don't think she was on the math team. I think she was, I think she was like smart and kind of nerdy in high school. No, I don't think she was nerdy at all. I think she grew into like,

You think Greer was nerdy? A hot girl persona. I don't know if Greer was like Queen B in high school. I got a very, I think she had plenty of friends. I think she had good friends.

I think she just said that about Gabby too. There's a difference. I mean like she was particular, I think Greer was an alpha in high school. I think she was, I think Greer was like media, like had enough friends think she was. I think Greer was like media,

like had enough friends to get by in high school. She was like treasurer of the grade. And then went to college. Not like Queen B, yeah. And then it was like everybody fucking loved her. She was super fun and social. I just feel like it was just, you never felt bad for Greer in this.

I never did. Like it was just, you just felt bad for Greer in this episode. I never did. Like, it was just, you just were happy for Gabby. It was, I thought it was kind of crazy how Gabby was able to, on camera, like, enjoy the date, enjoy the shopping spree, and not come across as, like, rubbing it in anyone's face, even Greer. And it's like you felt, you just wanted Greer to shut the fuck up. Gabby did really do a good job of, like, you know, even when Greer left, she was like, I'm sorry, I'm not trying to brag. You know, she felt awkward that she knew what it would look like coming back with all the

bags. And she did as good as she could. And then it was just unfortunate they happened to be camped out outside her door. Appreciating her on the date. But even on the date, like when, again, she didn't have to do the flag of like, oh, am I being too much or am I bragging? I appreciated that even on the date,

it wasn't egotistical of, oh, I deserve this, but it also wasn't, what? Like over the top of how could this possibly happen? Yeah, it was just fun. It was just fun. She did a great job. And I also liked early on in the season, there were a couple. She did a great job. Yeah. And I also liked, like early on in the season, there were like a couple

like super awkward moments with Gabby. Yeah. And I just was like, Zachariah. And I love, I love that too. She's a goofball.

Yeah. What do I, I, not that my opinion matters at all, of all the dresses that Gabby tried on, I, my least favorite was the one that

he seemed to pick for for gabby it that final big blue one it read the show was edited as if like zach essentially picked out the dress for gabby like oh that's the one and yeah i don't know if that's how it all went down but i thought she looked better than the other ones i don't know i didn't really what did you ladies think of the puffy lacy blue dress better than the other ones. I don't know. I didn't really, what did you ladies think of the puffy, lacy blue dress compared to the other ones that she tried on? Please tell us how you feel about it because it's not clear at all. The puffy, lacy blue.

It's just not your style but I think it was the most unique out of all of them. The other ones are more streamlined. They're more like- So you liked it? I loved it. I thought it looked stunning on her. Yeah.

I thought the neckline was really flattering. I thought like the blue with her hair looked awesome. Okay. Like I thought it was like very. And I agree with Allie where it was like very like. It's situationally appropriate. You look like an 80s prom dress. No, Nick.

I disagree. With the plunging V and no sleeves. What 80s were you living? Well, I mean, again, I don't know. It's just like just one man's opinion. I thought you liked better than the other ones. I don't know. Wasn't my fave.

Well, there was a sparkly one, and then... There was a yellow goldish one. I liked that one. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I think the best part was, it was clear to me that when Gabby walked in with all the bags of stuff, they literally just handed her a bag of stuff.

Yeah, she didn't know what they were. She had no fucking clue what was inside. Because when she was opening up, she was literally going, oh, these are cute. It was clearly the first time she was seeing all this stuff along with the women. She didn't go out and shop. And the dress wasn't even part of that

because that dress came later. They literally just handed her a bag of shit and said, walking with all this stuff and then open it up in front of them. They just basically got gifted a bunch of stuff and then had Gabby open it up in front of the women, which I thought was pretty great.

You can only keep what you open in front of the other girls. Something like fucked up like that. Exactly. Didn't mean to interrupt. Please go ahead. No, I just was saying, Katie was super sweet in all of that.

Maybe because she's more confident in her relationship with him, but she was able to sort of enjoy Gabby's happiness in that moment, and it hit a lot of the other ladies. Well, I mean, you're getting to that point of the season where i know we saw a clip from last week where jess is like i don't i'm mad i

don't have a one-on-one and zach's like it's not about a one-on-one and i'm kind of thinking yeah it kind of is yeah i mean a one-on-one in this world is everything it's the golden ticket it's like it's where relationships actually for you know everyone in this house when they see someone go on a one-on-one they see them come back literally a changed person yeah feeling happy feeling happy validated talking how they got to know him and and vice versa and they have a whole different perspective like that's where it all forms and if you don't get a one-on-one you don't have a shot you know and so you know you're getting to that point of the season where it's like half the women there have all had one

of ones and half are just like okay i'm another group date and so it's a normal feeling for the greers and the jesses of the world and the aerials and uh who else is that all we have left and the aerials and uh who else is that all we have left i think they've all had a one-on-one charities kylie and mercedes who you know oh yeah yeah they all yeah it's kind of like what's what's the point of me being here and so they realize next week is like week six is when the usually the second one of ones can start happening like i like week six is when i got my second one-on-one in andy season and that was before a couple guys had a one-on-one and obviously that that didn't go over well oh right you know and stuff like that so next week it'll be interesting does ariel get a one-on-one does jess jess has to there's something i don't think she just does there's something with zach and jess they showed the preview and the preview like i mean it's a

preview who really knows but they make it seem like it's getting messier and messier and maybe even zach you know has said oh he's made some mistakes and he yeah and this episode i i think uh is is obnoxious as Greer was at times I absolutely think Zach owes Greer an apology I do too I thought he was like kind of weirdly punishing in that zoom call it was such a dick

oh my god she was like no I I'm just you know and it was the kind of thing where he said well you know I understand he's saying I'm trying to find my wife this is the end of the year but then she was, you know, I understand he's saying, I'm trying to find my wife. This is the end of the year. But then she was like, oh, okay, I got it. I didn't mean to compare.

And then he's like reiterated it. Yeah. As if she didn't understand the first time. Yeah. I felt bad for her. He very much became the bachelor in that moment. I think what we've liked about Zach so far this season, his ability to just be a guy who is appreciative of the opportunity to be in a role

where he gets to meet all these great women and see if there's a connection with anyone to find a fiance right and in that moment you saw zach who's like i'm the bachelor yeah right right you know and this is my journey yeah and i'm taking this very seriously. And how dare you question my integrity? Like if this was a date where Zach and Greer in the real world and you got to watch this date, Zach would look like the biggest prick in the world. And she would have. And because the power dynamic is a little off Greer in that moment would have been like, all right, I'm going to get my purse. And I think that'll be it.

You know, it was just a regular day. Why are you talking to me? Yeah. Like you imagine a date where all of a sudden, like, you know, a date, usually two people are nervous, it. Yeah, could you imagine? If it was just a regular date, you'd be like, why are you talking to me like that? Yeah, can you imagine a date where all of a sudden, a date, usually two people are nervous, right? Yeah, of course. And maybe one person more nervous than the other,

in this case, Greer. Maybe there's a power dynamic there, who knows? Maybe because she was just excited about going on a date. She had a crush on him for a long time. Of course. She's more nervous than Zach, and Zach's just like, this girl, I don't know,

she slid in my DM, I don't know, going on a date with her. And's more nervous than Zach and Zach's just like, hey, this girl, I don't know, she slid in my DM, I don't know, go on a date with her. And she's all nervous and she's just like, he tells a story about like, yeah, I was really bummed out about something. And she just, all Greer was trying to do was relate to her. Right. Him. She was just trying to empathize and connect with him on any level and they're both in sales

and she was just trying to say, hey, I know what it's like to be frustrated and I know what it's like to have a goal and I know what it's like to be frustrated and I know what it's like to have a goal and I know what it's like not to meet that goal and I know what it's like, you know. And to feel like you're letting people down and all this stuff. That's all she was doing.

It's a very fair comparison. Totally. And can you imagine being on a date where like some guy goes to the girl and just makes her feel like an idiot and makes her feel like bad for like literally just trying to empathize with him he that guy would be thought of as the biggest asshole in the world and that's what zach did

to greer on a zoom call all under the guise of like you're not here for the right reasons because you're talking about a job and i'm talking about my love life and it's like fuck you zach i got a sense from a couple things that he was saying that that he felt you know obviously initially he felt sad to be sick and missing stuff and then it started to feel like he was like i'm feeling better i'm still having to be quarantined i like i don't like these rules you know like there was a little bit of like sort of a childish like now i want to and and also not necessarily just because of covid but because he doesn't want to. I feel like on some level he wants to be like a good guy.

He doesn't want to interrupt the flow of the season. He doesn't want to miss out on all these dates. He knows it's bad. So he's already feeling a little bit bad for not living up to his own idea of what he should be doing. And he wants to get back as soon as possible. And then someone says something and he's already primed to fight back or something. I don't know. It was very surprising.

It was surprising. I've never seen him talk like that. It was kind of weird and we all make mistakes. We all overreact. We all could be triggered. I think my point is I genuinely think he owes her an apology

and if I ever get a chance to talk to Zach, that's my first question. Have you apologized to Greer for you were a dick to her. You were an absolute asshole to Greer for no reason and you put her on blast and made her feel shitty about herself and

stupid and made her feel like she did something wrong for doing absolutely nothing wrong. I am just curious given the position of power that you've been given as the bachelor have you apologized to it would be a simple apology right it kind of felt like he was like mansplaining love to her yeah like he's like it's actually nothing like sales and it's like dude but she never even said it was like she never said this is the exact same thing it was more so you know i can kind of understand how you feel it had more to do with getting COVID at an inopportune time than it did about love.

And he could have asked her like, hey, could you say more about that? Like, wait, huh? I don't know what you mean. Like say like he could have if you really wanted to like be that nitpicky, like he could have addressed it in a way that was not so like rude. You know, that is actually that's one thing that I wonder about Zach sometimes. And I always leave a whole big chunk of judgment because I know things get edited out and all this stuff. But there have been times where like someone has shared something with him.

And instead of going deeper with them and saying, tell me more about that. He's just sort of said thank you for sharing that with me thank you for being vulnerable and then we move on now that's just that could be an editing thing because uh because there's lots of like you know they can't just have every long conversation um but he seems like a guy who listens generally and and and is empathetic and cares so there have been times though where I've like, go deeper, ask one more question. Even on his date with Gabby,

that would have been a good, when she was saying, you know, my last relationship really robbed me of this confidence and how I looked and whatever. What happened there? Even as simple as saying, you know, how have you overcome that? Or how since then have you, you know, how can I help you?

You know, there's so many follow-ups. Yeah, you don't have to go deep into like the trauma or whatever it was, but but like how did you go through yeah what was your anything else about that journey you care to share definitely could be edited out it could be that's why I even hesitate to say it so but

you would think you'd see a little bit more I don't think you could totally blame the edit because it's there's a pattern with Zach that he doesn't really have a lot of follow ups with the in the types of a pattern with Zach that he doesn't really have a lot of follow-ups in these types of moments. My favorite Zach line of the episode was when Gabby was like, yeah, the little things are such a big deal. And Zach's like, yeah, the little things are huge. And I was like, that's it?

There's no follow-up to that? Like, when the huge things are huge, too. You know? Like, and the medium things are also huge. Like, what the fuck does that even mean? I know. I love the little things are huge. The little things are so huge. You know, like in the medium things are also huge. Like what the fuck does that even mean? I know. I love the little things are so huge. Like that was the best.

One of my favorite Zach lines of the episode was when Gabby, when they're on the fragrance portion of the date, which spectacular, amazing date idea. Like so shout out producers. That was so fantastic. And Gabby's like, it smells like Christmas mixed with weed. And Zach goes marijuana just for the viewers at home weed is a uh Zach is such a guy he's just a guy say more I'm intrigued but every follow-up question it's just yeah it's not like he's uh I'm not he's not like overly

masculine he is a masculine guy but like I don't even mean toxic masculinity. He's just a guy. It's just like in any situation, if you ask yourself, what would a guy do? That's what Zach does. You know? It's just like he's just in every facet of the world, he's a guy. I don't know how else to articulate that,

but he is just... He does get his gentleman on now. He is the most guy guy of all time. He's very good at that sometimes he's polite and you know he's respectful he's just such a guy there's no there's no like ripple effect outside of like guide him yeah yeah just like what what what would a guy do i'm gonna do that like i don't know i don't know how else to explain it. He's just such a guy. The most ordinary guy ish way. Take a shot.

Every time Nick says guy, the way he dances, the way he jokes. Oh yeah. He's just a guy. You know what though? I believe in my heart of hearts that he has other dances within him that he's too afraid to share on camera. Probably.

I feel like there's something about him that I'm like, let loose. Let it go. Like, go crazy. I feel like he wants to be the perfect person. And in so many ways, he is. He's very lovely. He's very lovely. He's very warm. He's got an incredible voice.

But there's a part of me that's like, I want to know some of the other things about him. Sometimes I want to get into him because I really liked him last season. I thought that date that they went on in the movie theater, I was really moved by his whole journey with that. I think he's a very earnest guy. He is very earnest. I think overall he's a high character, stand-up guy.

I think he genuinely wants to do the right thing. He desires to. Yeah, exactly. I think that's great. I do too. I think that's good. But it kind of goes to what you're saying about how he's always thinking what is the right thing to do here?

And like, and that's an awesome thought of, that's an awesome train of thought most of the time. But sometimes it's just like, but what, what do you want to do? Like more like creative spaces. Cause I feel like dancing and laughter are two things where I'm like,

nobody should make fun of anybody for either of those things, no matter what it is. And it feels like Zach is dancing like someone who's scared. That's what I'm saying. I feel like I would love to just say, Zach, of those things I completely agree no matter what it is and it feels like Zach is dancing like someone who's scared that someone's gonna make fun of I know that's what I'm saying I feel like I would love to just

say Zach no cameras we're gonna play a bunch of different kinds of music and just move your body however the music moves you and like

none of this Jason Ritter kind of like retreat retreat kind of life coaching seminar just how to like be yourself literally no one's watching so like do it do the thing uh no i i do really uh like that and i it

was fun like the perfume part of the date was super fun also it's uh to me it felt like in hindsight a little bit like a mystery like which of these people gave zach coven yeah was it the perfume guy was it the lady who came in was it the butler a corgi or one of the corgis yeah could have been one of the corgis and how did gabby not get it i that was they never addressed they're like by the way he's he's he has covet and gabby's just sitting there going like with all the other ladies real close yeah real close. Should I not be? Yeah, should I?

Does anyone want to tell me to quarantine? I'm sure they've been, I'm sure they're testing regularly there. I bet. It just was weird to not acknowledge that she was with him and kissing him. Yeah. And, you know, doing lots of COVID unsafe. They really kind of threw Zach under the bus before they announced he had COVID. And also like the fact that they announced they had covid and also

like the fact that they made it like the word stood up was used so much in this episode as if like zach had anything to do with this they got these women dressed for the group date knowing that zach are they on such a crazy schedule that they can't be like let's wait until he gets better they could have it was weird they could have woke up and like it's totally possible that zach woke up i mean because like when i when i was watching the episode i'm like zach you're like what a like because they made it he he's like yeah i just feel a little jet lagged and i'm like tired i'm like get off your fucking ass and go on a date like i remember like because you're so tired as the

bachelor you're exhausted and you feel like shit the whole time right you know and i'm just like you're jet lagged you're just mailing it in and i thought this was more of a like oh this is a great idea by producers be like because if i'm thinking if the producers for any group date at this point would have been like hey like you can go on this group date during the day or you can like chill right i'd be like i'm gonna chill yeah you know like who's on this date like especially if one of his favorites was on there like right right oh let's go to the night portion you know so the whole day they're making I'm going to chill. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Who's on this date? Especially if one of his favorites was on there. Oh, right, right, right. Oh, I'll just go to the night portion.

And so the whole day they're making these women think maybe he'll be here tonight, maybe not. They clearly knew he wasn't going to be available. And then they edit it as if Zach's standing them up and leading them on. And Zach definitely had nothing to do with it. Yeah. And they got all dolled up for the cocktail party of the night portion and

fully knowing that Zach wasn't going to be a part of that. Oh, that was painful. Cause yeah, you saw, I think you saw people's literal trauma responses there of like, like abandonment. Cause it was such a,

like, I think this person is going to show up for me. They've disappointed me earlier. So even more like in this cycle of being so invested in it. And I really think we saw people's inner child respond to Zach not showing up on the date. I completely agree. Yeah. And it had nothing to do with any promise that Zach made.

And you know he would have been on that date had he been able to. Of course. of course. Yeah, they really edited it though. Like he was just like slightly under the weather at first. I'm like, Jesus Christ. But then obviously they dropped the COVID bomb. Yeah, yeah. That made more sense.

And thank God for Katie that she can articulate how serious it is. Yeah. Katie, I know you're a nurse. The only one. Katie, I know you're a nurse. You know how serious this is. All right, bye.

Yeah, see ya. Yeah. Oh my nurse. The only one. Katie, I know you're a nurse. You know how serious this is. All right, bye. Yeah, see ya. Oh my gosh. How do you think they, do you think Katie was the one who came up with the care basket idea and was the first person to ask producers about it? Or do you think they came to her and said, hey, Katie, we know you're a nurse.

You're the nurse who's the front runner. 50-50. It's entirely possible she went to them and said, I'd like to do something nice for Zach. That's entirely possible. went to them and said i'd like to do something nice for zach that's entirely possible probable probable yeah she probably took the initiative and then they helped facilitate it from there yeah i i almost certain it had something to do with i want to do something nice for zach maybe a care package and then they they they helped her set it up poor catherine it is the other nurse just like just like fully getting bulldozed over.

I am also. Yeah. Yeah. It is funny. Oh, Catherine's a nurse too? Yeah. With all the COVID stuff, you started to get more,

or at least for me, some of the magic was sort of started to feel a little bit more of the producer's hand. I was like, Zach wasn't in there putting that Big Ben under the pillow for charity. I know that that never happens, but I was like,

for a second I was like, he shouldn't have been in that room coughing all over the place. Sorry about canceling on the date. Here is a souvenir from a souvenir shop that we grabbed at the airport. But a large one. It's going to take a half of your suitcase.

Exactly. Put your bag over the weight limit. Zach is a pretty hefty too. And they are vigilant in London. If your bag is like half a pound over, they will be like, take it out.

That souvenir itself is at least five pounds. Yeah, yeah. Not Zach explaining the joke. Oh my gosh, I know. Hey, because we didn't have enough time. And clocks.

Clocks. And then Ben. How have you been because like ben big ben i didn't even know notice that that was brutal yeah that was really brutal oh my god he's such a guy such a guy such a guy again obviously they want you to like katie because if it was oh my gosh the flashbacks to their museum date I'm like that was two weeks ago we know like well that it was giving Susie clock tower

come on their lead got COVID I mean like I know what are they gonna do they gotta fill some time yeah but I mean if Greer or or Mercedes or Kylie put together that basket I guarantee you they would have had different music

they would have been more of like an awkwardness music of like you know and then Zach being like I don't really know them and it's like kind of weird but like thanks Greer pushes like an annual sales report underneath the door yeah I hope you're feeling better she should have that would have been great

but yeah they clearly want you to like like Katie cause yeah they all it was was that moment without you know the women wondering where she was or anything like that or like her how did she find his hotel room like when I snuck

out quote unquote snuck out like they had to film me going to the front desk and pretending that I like got her random name I going to the front desk and pretending that I got her random name I literally had the people on the internet being like that's so unsafe that you gave him like his room number like oh my god I can't believe this hotel

is doing this and it's just like people are so dumb and literal but yeah they didn't show any of that so it just goes to show how much they want you to like Katie yeah and she's very likable she is very much a rat yep yeah i think uh he picks gabby and then katherine and katie are top katherine katie and gabby are your top three right jess is top four how do you say why i don't

there's just something about the two of them i think ariel though no but here's that's what i was gonna say before i think when i brought up the whole like zach neo's career and apology i i wonder if zach in the next few weeks is going to buy into his bachelor bullshit a little too much you know i because i think i think zach's been leading on jess i mean i've seen in a lot of dates, Zach has been very, I mean, he's been very good and effective at validating a lot of people and being like, I think there's something here and giving people these little morsels that make them go, maybe it's me. And so I do feel like he's going to be in trouble the next couple weeks. was it Greer? When Greer was talking about how like this date was like tailor-made for her and then she was saying how like on all the other dates, Zach's always telling all the women like, I picked this date

specifically for you and I'm watching me like, liar. Right. Bullshit. Like they don't. Right. Okay.

They don't. These dates are planned so far in advance. Right, exactly. Long before we knew about your tattoo. The lead has some say in like,

some. Really? I would say the lead has 20% say and who goes on what one but how do they know to put the winners on the shopping date well because early on like week one is that a thing I haven't noticed that pattern they put the winners on the shopping date the last two have been the final rows picked

yeah because like so week one like every week they're checking in with the lead they literally are ranking The last two have been the final roast pick. I mean, like, yeah, because, like, so week one, like, every week they're checking in with the lead. They literally are ranking, you know, like, who are your four favorite, who are your six favorite. Oh, wow. So week one, he ranked them for the producers.

I, like, these are my top ones. Every week they check in with a new, like, kind of ranking. And then at this point, he knows all their names, and it's more of a conversation rather than like a meeting because early on it's literally like all right like rank them for us right and based off of that ranking you know they'll start you know zeroing in on who they want on the one-on-one now someone like uh brooklyn or someone like christina who had the first one-on-one those were like predetermined before Zach ever got out of the limo night

one, like because of their stories, because of their stories. And they wanted to, you know, especially the first one-on-one is very much like a setup to like either, you know, get to know the women or help,

help us know the bachelor more like on, on the first one-on-one with Zach, with Christina, it was like his fear of being a father potentially. So that's, there's a, there's a story they create with that.one with Zach, with Christina, it was like his fear of being a father, potentially. So there's a story they create with that, right? With Brooklyn, it's very possible that she was going to get that one-on-one for the story, right?

And again, every lead only really likes three or four. Right. That sincerely. So they're like, these are the people I really want to go on a one-on-one with. And so to your point, Allie, they'll be like, hey, well, this is a great day for connecting with someone, like someone you really want to get to know and someone you think you have feelings for and someone you like, like this is the type of date that

you get to know someone versus another date where it's just, you know, you're, you're four wheeling in mud and like, that's fun, but you're not talking and connecting. You're not hanging out. You don't get to goof around and shit like that. So like that's when I say about 20% because like as long as the lead gets to let the producers know who they really like and they definitely want the lead to make connections.

They want the lead to fall in love. So they're focused on that. But other than that, it doesn't make a difference whether the lead goes on a date with you week one or week six, like only a certain number of women or men will get a one-on-one and then they'll start having the second or in the two-on-ones or things like that. And so he's definitely not tailor made.

He's, he's not picking them specific for the women. So if Zach is saying that to all the women, he is lying to them. Like, you he's and whatever the bachelor has to lead people on you do right it's it's a shitty part of the job the bachelorette has to do it the bachelor has to do it of course you know and all i'm saying is uh call a little bullshit and it's fine because it's part of the job but when when zach starts playing bachelor rather than playing zach i think it's fine because it's part of the job but when when zach starts playing bachelor rather than playing zach i think it's an interesting wrinkle to note right and so going

and i think with jess i think he i think he's leading her on i think he is saying things i think he likes her but at this point i don't think she's going to get a one-on-one i mean i just think about that group date where he specifically pulled her to validate her that wasn't her pulling him that wasn't her interjecting i felt like he made a very intentional effort it's a fine line between making all these women feel seen and special and leaning them on i yeah i mean there's an interesting thing that happens and zach's not the only one to do this i i've seen it a couple of times in seasons, but where it's like what will happen is, especially for like a super nice guy,

there'll be a thing where someone is feeling awful, someone is feeling weird, and they need some kind of validation from them. And either they give that to them and they have them stay there or that's a moment where they go you know what i'm realizing that i can't give it to you and they like send them home and i i feel like uh i feel like it's he's he's erred on the side of giving validation more than he's erred on the side of like i i i can't aired on the side of like I I can't give this to you yeah you know and so that's why I think he may be in for some choppy waters ahead because he's

he's taken the nicer easier in the moment route a couple of times it's gonna maybe it's gonna backfire and it may it may back yeah likely to not the same scales Clayton but like a similar like over promise can't help but under deliver. It is what it is. Yeah, exactly. If you over promise, you can't help but under deliver. Do we think Charity is scheduled for next week? Do you think they're going to make her wait a week and like toy with her?

I saw like on the season that it was happening. I'd be shocked if she doesn't get a one-on-one. That would be a bad look. Yeah, I think they should give her her one-on-one as quickly as possible yeah because it's it's one thing like oh we all didn't get to go on the group date but to hear to get so excited that you've been chosen for the one-on-one and then have that you know i but i know yeah it's it's tough when every almost everybody it's got to be weird for Gabby too, who got the only date of the. Yeah, because the group date didn't happen.

Then Charity's date didn't happen. She's just sitting there with her Hermes and Louis Vuitton. Yeah, her one rose. Ooh. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I think he picks Gabby at this point. Yeah, I mean, for some reason, I feel like Katie is, I don't know

but that date with Gabby was so special and she did that little nose cute nose thing where she like kissed him and then like rubbed his nose

which really won me over do you think he has sex with Brooklyn in this episode they make it seem like he does oh yeah they did make it seem like

when he was like they showed a like we're gonna take it to the next level he was like it wasn't a it wasn't a moment of lust it was a moment of love or some coin line or some shit and it was and then it seems like other people are upset with him and he's right yeah i mean who really knows but it made it seem like he hooked up with brooklyn i wonder now i don't

think he did i wonder if they did a fake out where it was actually katie on the bed because like we see brooklyn talking and it's like okay blonde fake out where it was actually Katie on the bed. Because we see Brooklyn talking and it's like, okay, blonde. And then we see a blonde on the bed. They do that all the time. Those tricksters. Well, Katie is definitely prime for a second one-on-one for sure. Yeah, after the care package for sure. And I think Kat, Catherine.

Yeah. They show Kat, Catherine getting a little upset. I think you're right. They showed a lot of people getting upset. The more the season goes on, I think you're right. The more the season goes on, I think you're right of like, once Kat stops feeling like the front runner, we're really going to see another side of her. I've been saying this since week one.

I just feel like there's... I can see that. I can totally see that. I could see her losing it towards the end. It's tough. if you've if you've had a lot of like a certain experience in your life of how people react i mean i don't know her life but just in general it it feels like the the bachelor sometimes feels like the olympics of like you know people who were uh very charismatic and beautiful

and all these things. Now they're all coming together and they're going, oh, I've never been with this many other people who now I feel a level of competition that I haven't felt before. That's me totally projecting. I have no idea. But it is interesting to see people

who seem unused to not being chosen or selected and having that experience and going, this is completely alien and unfamiliar to me. I've been the one to not choose. Yeah, it's like wherever I go, I'm a big fish. Like I've moved pond to pond to pond and I'm still the big fish. And now I'm in the biggest pond and they brought in the other huge fish. And it's like, I thought I was the only big fish like this. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, you see that with all of them.

Yeah. I'm looking now, Charity's a child and family therapist, which is I think interesting because she also, maybe that's the why, but I've noticed that she seems to be involved in a lot of the drama. She's usually the one talking to one of the women who's upset. Talking to her feelings.

She was involved in the Kylie... Anastasia. Drama. Well, because Kylie was the one saying, I didn't hear it directly, but Charity did. And Charity was more than happy to verify. She was the one who had heard it. Oh, that's right.

I forgot about it. And she led a grounding exercise at one point i think maybe it was again gabby was having a little meltdown cookie yeah she's awesome i don't trust charity oh really oh what she's smart but not trustworthy yeah i'm sure she's lovely no No, I feel like she is. I feel like she's a wholesome, genuine gal. I'm talking in bachelor context. I'm sure they're all wonderful. I just think she's smart. Yeah. You think she's strategic?

I think she's far more strategic than she wants you to believe. Okay. Yeah, for sure. We shall see. I don't think that's a bad thing. I'm a strategic guy. But know, I'm a strategic guy. But yeah, I don't, I think she is a clever. I just think like she has this certain warmth to her that it feels like Katie has as well.

And then it kind of seems like Gabby, like there's a certain, like, it feels like Zach's type is like women who just have like, whose eyes really light up and are like kind of enthusiastic and animated. And like, that's not to say say that and i'm sure everybody has the capacity to do that when they're talking about someone like something they're passionate about but i just feel like there's something about her energy that feels really comparable with his other front runners yeah where i'm like she fits right in best friend energy yeah i think she's my top four charity you think charity gabby katie katherine yeah charity yeah i think so too all right i think charity is going to get the next one-on-one because that would just be really bad

and then i i think chair next week and get chair you get a one-on-one and the other one-on-one is going to go to someone who's already had a one-on-one okay so who do we think jason do you have a prediction for who that one-on-one would be too? Oh, gosh. Is it Katie or Catherine? Katie, yeah. I think it might be Katie. Because that would be the most drama. Katie is such a, she seems like such a warm favorite amongst the ladies. Like with Gabby, she's like, look at this.

And she's so nice and she's so lovely. And I feel like maybe the producers could think like let's put a little bit of a target on her back and I could make you know make her a focal point for some jealousy yeah because it feels like they're doing everything they can they're like walking in your pajamas with disheveled hair like you're so nice we're doing we're both pulling out all the big guns to see if we can get you like be like the target the house? Yeah, to threaten the other... Yeah, yeah. I think they...

So it could be her. It could totally be her. It could be Brooklyn. I think Brooklyn is very much a producer favorite rather than a Zach favorite. I agree. Oh, yeah. I think she has a lot of bachelorette energy.

Knowing the people who make these decisions, I could see why Brooklyn stands out to them or bachelor of paradise very blonde very respectfully have you ever considered shutting the fuck up like stuff like that oh my gosh I forgot that that was amazing has a bite to her has like a

can like snark back and you know have you ever considered rodeo racer but yeah but like also like very kind of has those southern manners like very she's yeah she is dripping in bachelorette kind of yeah energy energy so also like truly incredible considering like what she came through like i would have never have for some reason like her her personality she doesn't seem vulnerable or or like i don't know i just am so impressed by her that she came through that and then is all of these like snarky

like you know things it's it's just awesome that you know i mean people are just so resilient and incredible and um and i think it like challenges this idea that like people who are survivors of domestic violence are have a certain personality type and are unique and are quiet and are in some way like have character traits that might make them more in some ways like susceptible where like i think it's such a good embodiment of like these powerful vivacious like incredible people can end up in these horrific situations usually what happens in those situations so interesting too she had enough awareness to be like, I ended up with someone who was like my dad, you know, like it was such a, I don't know, I just, I think she's awesome.

If you talk to Darlene, my therapist, she would say that, yeah, that's fairly common in a sense. And the fact that Brooklyn mentioned her father. And so, yeah, you haveoklyn this kind of adult brooklyn is this kind of independent charismatic snarky playful person but that like 10 year old brooklyn you know who maybe experienced a lot of trauma from her father. But when she was going through her own trauma in that past toxic relationship,

more reverted to 10-year-old Brooklyn rather than 25-year-old Brooklyn or things like that. And so to your point, Amanda, I think that's where you can see what seems like how could this person who seems so capable and willing to stand up for themselves allow this to happen? Well, you know, some people experience this, these terrible traumas as, as, as children. And when they get triggered by this

trauma, their brain literally goes back to that kind of child version of themselves. They become the children experiencing the trauma. And I think that's where you see those stark differences. It's also sort of goes to how insidious some of these relationships are because none of them start out awful and abusive. They start out, you know, with like love bombing and all these things and slowly you get into it. So amazing that she at a certain point was able to recognize like, oh, wow, this was a bit of a straight line. a bit of a straight line. I didn't even know like that. I had gotten myself into this exact same situation that I promised myself. I wouldn't, because this is the person that I loved at one point,

but now I'm waking up, being woken up by police and I'm, you know, and the incredible that she just had that moment of like, I got to get out no matter what. I just got to leave. And you know, but yeah,

it's, uh, yeah. Anyway. Fascinating stuff Heavy stuff Yeah Heavy stuff So yeah

Those are my final four I think Brooklyn's a wild card For top four At this point Ariel Greer Allie I just think

Jess I think they're just kinda Up next on the chopping block So to speak Yeah I just think they're Jess I think they're just kind of up next on the chopping block so to speak yeah there could be a surprise with one of them

like I could picture you know the classic I'm gonna take you on a one-on-one and then send you home on a one-on-one you know that hasn't really happened yet

so I could see that happening with maybe it's a Jess Greer or Greer you know something like that I could also or Greer, you know, something like that. I can also see Greer coming back somehow.

She is our first impression. Rose. She was the first impression. Rose. Zach hates her. I mean, that, that call was not good.

Yeah. Zach hates her. Yeah. He completely overreacted. And I, I agree with you is that I think Zach was just not in the right head space and stressed and frustrated and caged in like a tiger in that room.

And unfortunately, Greer took the wrath of his frustrations. But he wouldn't have done that to one of the other women. It was just like, I'm kind of annoyed by you. You've been annoying me. I regret giving you the first impression, Rose. Like literally, in the back of his mind, I bet he's thinking, he's projecting that frustration onto Greer.

I think he hates Greer. Not like in a literal sense, but I think he's- No, no. He's over Greer. He's over Greer. He's waiting to send her home. It is true that like if Katie said,

oh, if I got COVID in my sales, he wouldn't have jumped down her throat like that. And he, you know, yeah I got COVID in my sales, he wouldn't have, he'd jump down her throat like that. And he, you know. Yeah. You'd have been like, she's so empathetic. She's always looking to connect. Yeah, Katie would be like, you know, like when I was like nursing

and like we just like had this like goal and whatever. And I was so bummed. And he's like, oh really? Wow, what a great story. Yeah, exactly. Not like, I just want you to know that. Like my love life is like, not just like some fucking job.

And I just like, well, I just want you to know that. She's like, oh my God, I'm so sorry. Well, I just want you to know like my love life is like not just like some fucking job and I just like I just want you to know that she's like oh my god I'm so sorry well I just want you to know that like yeah I just want to make sure you understand I haven't mansplained it enough I think there probably is also there's got to be some kind of fear that as the bachelor people will think he's not there for the right reasons whatever so like I'm sure there's some defensiveness in general like I am really trying to find love it's not there for the right reasons whatever so like i'm sure there's some defensiveness in general like i am really trying to find love uh it's not just a reality show like this isn't just for money yeah exactly yeah maybe i i i may i don't know i mean i that would that's again me projecting uh you know if i was if i was the bachelor ever i do think it was really interesting

to see the women on the group date without zach seeing the way they behave because greer was like super charismatic she was like chatting having a great time doing the like when in rome of it all and so i i was interested to be like oh i wonder if they would ever if there's ever a way on the show where they could have like the bachelor spy on people do you remember so they were all at the pub after going on a day of touring the city and Greer was just like really chatting it up with the bartender

and like having a grand old time and I was like, this is something where I think that's such an interesting data point of like when they are not in a room with The Bachelor, how do they behave?

How much do they turn on the charm, etc.? There were, I did, I all of a sudden in that daytime one because they weren't yet feeling like Zach,

you know, they had kind of accepted after the rainy bus ride, they'd kind of accepted that he wasn't going to be there. I was like, what if they all just realized that they have so much more fun? Oh, probably. Oh yeah.

That reminded me. Should we be here? Should we just split off and have a fun vacation? I love that. Zach was saying, he's just like, you know, these women must be having a terrible time without me

and then it cuts to them like like okay sure yeah like they're on an all-expense-paid-for like girls trip yeah exactly makes sense that he is saying that also there was a part where actually when we were watching it Natalie laughed out loud and I actually am going to defend Zach here he was on a date with gabby and he said to gabby it's just like you know you're just like not nervous around me and i think that's like really cool and like now they just like laugh just thinking like of course like because it comes across as kind of a douchey thing to say right oh yeah it's just like so not nervous around me it's like you can be normal around me because like i'm the bachelor and it's just like so not nervous around me. It's like, you can be normal around me. Cause like I'm the bachelor and it's just like,

and I actually, I empathize with Zach in that because I, I do think a lot of these, I actually think it was a, a very genuine thing to say. Yeah. He's a sincere, because I think even for example,

I think there are women on this season for Zach that would never date Zach in the real world. Right. I don't think they would look at him twice. Um, I won't. And I, and I think even,

even those women on dates act nervous around Zach, because regardless of whether they would date him in the real world, he is still the bachelor and he needs to like them for them to go far or to be on the show. So even if it's women who you know they would never admit it but deep down they're like they're telling their friends like yeah he's a nice guy but oh they gotta never dated him it's like they're not being themselves right they are they're playing a role and i think they get nervous or they're not they literally they just

want zach to pick them in a sense of if Zach picks me, I get to go further. And with Gabby, I think he feels like he's actually on a date with someone. A genuine, yeah. Like he is actually getting to know someone and he feels like that Gabby sees him as Zach and not as the Bachelor.

And I think despite it coming across as douchey, I think having been in his position, I think it came from a very genuine place to actually say that. Because even, even the women who might not date him, I still think read as insincere or read as nervous around him or thinking of the right thing to say. And I do think Zach is smart and intuitive.

And I think he picks up on that. And I think he has with some of the other women, but also Jess is like genuinely been like shakingly nervous around him. You know, like there have been some times where she was, you know, like mouse energy. Yeah, exactly. Which I I I connect with. I was also a shaker back in my day. But yeah.

So I think like just that that that that energetic feeling of being relaxed with someone where their nervous energy isn't making you nervous or making you feel like you have to kind of help them with their nervousness. I felt like with Gabby that came from, if you take it out of context, it sounds bad. But yeah, I think within it, he was like'm I'm enjoying this level of comfort that I feel I don't think he meant it is uh is in a douchey way yeah yeah and the heart-to-heart they were having I think so often we talk about these bachelor sob stories and upping the ante and how it's like getting more and more like how much trauma have you survived and I thought this one was just felt very grounded and relatable where it wasn't like we've never heard of anything like this before it was just a very I think real authentic relatable thing to bring up and something that it felt pretty appropriate to bring up at this stage

of dating like definitely vulnerable and definitely upping the ante but not this kind of out of the blue here's my life story and so there's it just kind of added to and it came out from it came out of the like her experience on the date it was like i wouldn't even be talking about this but you looked at me in a way that made me feel a way i didn't need the mirror because you were so yeah and it was kind of a pretty thing to say and he stood up every time she came out yeah every single time she came out he stood up he's a real gentleman he's very... Every single time she came out, he stood up. He's a real gentleman. He's very into Gabby. Yes.

I think he... And I thought he was sleeping on Gabby for a long... I was like, she seems awesome. I think that's all it is, yeah. It was clear that they had a connection they weren't showing us. Okay, okay. Yeah.

And I think they made Gabby look a little nutty. To throw us off the scent. To throw us off. And she was acting that way because we're like, why are you acting this way? You haven't talked to him yet. Right.

Yeah. And I think she clearly had talked to him and she probably clearly had some great conversations and they just flat out didn't show them or showed snippets of them. All right. Because there's clearly a rapport with them. Yeah, there was,

especially on this date. Yeah. All right. Okay, I think we hit the predictions and everything. I think so. Any final thoughts, Jason? Good luck to them all. They're all lovely.

Yeah. It's always interesting when the person, and I know this is a producer thing too, but every once in a while a bachelorette or a bachelor will just like a villain will pop up and they'll just be like, bye. It's like send them out. I'm saying villain as like shorthand, but like someone who's causing drama issues in the house. sort of more subtlety of, you know, like jealousy or very human things that are conflict oriented, but not like, oh, I think this might be not a good person. You know, like it's much more satisfying or it's more like high stakes and intense watching

women be mad at Katie than it is watching them be mad at like Christina or someone who has like a very obvious kind of like brash personality where you could see how it would rub people the wrong way. Yeah, exactly. But it's like a very obvious kind of like brash personality where you could see how it would rub people the wrong way. Yeah, exactly. But it's like that vintage. We're going back to the love stories, Vintage Bachelor, where there is inherent drama. And if you get really invested in all these love stories, like they're not all going to be happy endings. I'm enjoying the season.

Me too. Yeah. Me too. I think it's nice to see the love stories. Like, I like the drama for sure. But I feel like we're getting to know some of these people. I think it's going to only lead to a, a better second half of the season.

I'm excited. Jason, thanks so much for coming. Always great to see you. It's always great to see you too. It's an absolute pleasure. Uh, we'll have to have your wife back.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She's, she's into it. Uh, next time you come on, uh,

when you're in town, I look forward to having the couple's reaction. Oh yeah. Yeah. She's, she's good. Did you get her into it? No, she got me into it. Next time you come on when you're in town, I look forward to having the couple's reaction. Oh, yeah, yeah. She's good. Did you get her into it? No, she got me into it. She got you into it. Yeah, I never, I never, I had,

there were other people that tried to get me into it, and I never did, and then she got me into it, and my introduction to the show was Juan Pablo's season, and I was like, oh, and the, the, my introduction to the show was Juan Pablo's season. And I was like, Oh, I didn't realize this is just like brutal, like emotional carnage where people were like, I'm feeling like you don't love me.

Like, all right, bye. I was like, Whoa, what is this show? I've been sleeping on it. And,

uh, yeah. So, so, so she got me in into it and then it really just like hooks you in. Yeah, it does. Uh,

yeah. Well, we're, uh, we're excited to have you back. Thanks so much. Glad to see you like hooks you in. Yeah, it does. Yeah. Well, we're excited to have you back. Thanks so much. Glad to see you're doing so well. Always a pleasure to see you. Yeah, I'm so excited. Congratulations on your book. I can't wait to read it.

Oh, thank you. Well, grab a copy. It doesn't really apply to you. Well, I have exes. Okay. But thank you. Yeah. Don't forget, guys, we have another episode of Better Date Than Never

Thursday night 9pm Eastern 6pm Pacific on Thursday Francesca there we go yeah she's with us

on Thursday talking about her new show Perfect Match and her life and I'm sure we'll get into Machine Gun Kelly

and Megan Fox and all that fun pop culture gossip that... We love so much. Also, Vile Files TikTok, throw it a follow. Up and coming. It's a good follow. Yeah, thanks, Jason. I follow.

And if you have an update, send it in. Yeah, send those updates. Whether you were shooting your shot in a texting office hours, asking Nick, whatever it was, we'd love to know how you were doing. And don't forget, we have another update special this Friday. We got some great updates for you. You do not want to miss it.

And we have some exciting news coming up in the next week or so about ways to listen to episodes of Better Days Than Never or get more updates and things like that. We'll be excited to bring that to you shortly. So keep a lookout for that. Anything else? Bye. Bye.