The Viall Files - E548 Bachelor Recap with Arden Myrin

Episode Date: February 28, 2023

Welcome back to another episode of The Viall Files: Bachelor Recap Edition! We’re joined by actress and comedian Arden Myrin to discuss the sixth episode of Zach’s season. We start out by covering the week’s Bachelor Tea, including Greer and Zach’s responses to their cocktail party disagreement. We then dive into this week’s episode and discuss Charity’s 1:1 date in Estonia, and Kat pulling (and kissing) Zach prior to their departure. The group date involves witchcraft and an extinguished fire between Zach and Jess. Did Ariel’s date put her in Zach’s top four for hometowns? And is Brooklyn a bully? We break it all down. “Did he give her Covid as a punishment for having ambition?”  If you are interested in running a book club in your city, send an email to: [e-mail]   Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes. Join us for our new LIVE show on Thursdays at 9PM ET/6PM PT on Amp, available in the Apple app store. Android User? Listen here: https://www.onamp.com/ To Order Nick’s Book Go To: http://www.viallfiles.com If you would like to get some texting advice on Office Hours send an email to [e-mail] with “Texting Office Hours” in the subject line! To advertise on the show, contact [e-mail] or visit https://www.advertisecast.com/TheViallFiles THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Canva - Collaborate with Canva for Teams! Right now, you can get a FREE 45-day extended trial when you go to canva.me/viall Drizly - Drizly is the most convenient way to buy beer, wine and spirits, with delivery to your doorstep in under 60 minutes. Download the Drizly app or go to https://www.Drizly.com Black Tux - Rent or buy, The Black Tux is the best place to go when you need a tuxedo for a wedding or special night. Get $20 off when you go to https://www.theblacktux.com/viall and use code VIALL. Tawkify - Right now, Tawkify is offering our listeners 20% off when you become a client at https://www.Tawkify.com/VIALL Athletic Greens - If you’re looking for an easier way to take supplements, Athletic Greens is giving you a FREE 1-year supply of Vitamin D AND 5 free travel packs with your first purchase. Go to https://www.athleticgreens.com/viallfiles Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @ardenmyrin @alison.vandam @liffordthebigreddog

Hey, we've got a secret. This podcast is supported by Apples Never Fall, a chilling new mystery series from the author of Big Little Lies, starring Annette Bening, Sam Neill, Jake Lacey, and Alison Brie. It's sure to get people talking. What dark secrets lurk in this family? Tune in on March 21st to find out. Apples Never Fall, exclusively on W Network and Stack TV. What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to another episode of the Vow Files Batch, the recap edition.

I'm Nick, joined by Allie, Amanda, Derek, and our special guest today, Arden Marine, who I apologize for getting your name wrong for the past week. I should have known better. I mean, honestly, I have people that I've known my entire life who don't get it right, and I don't care. You can't have a Y in your name and be mad when people pronounce the y you know what i mean like that's a wild card that's your you're choosing to be unhappy you know i grew up in a tiny town in rhode island i remember like i threw a giant party one time and the cops decided to leave me alone and he he told my mom he's like you know i said those myrene kids they're good kids we like those my Myrene kids. It's a town of like 5,000 people. You know our last name.

Welcome back. Hi, Nick. So good to see you. Likewise. How have you been? I've been really good. How have you been? Great.

Congratulations on your engagement. Thanks, yeah. And congratulations on your design chops. I'm an interior design fan, and I feel like you've really stuck your landing. Thank you. I had a lot of help. It's gorge. It was a lot of help. It's gorge.

It was a community of influence. Okay. Yeah. Who helped you? Like who was sort of your, who did you bounce ideas off of? Natalie played a big role. She has a interior design thumb, if you will.

Yeah. And then my publicist Megan, Allie and Amanda played a role. Derek was integral in the setup. I don't know if the design-wise, he, you know. Supported it. Supported. The combo of this green and then the texture on the wall

and then this gore, this bougie couch. Since you're here, do you want to see our new thumbnail design? We did a rebrand. We haven't like we no one knows about it yeah yeah yeah yeah so you're the i think design i think we're gonna go with uh this one oh yeah oh and then slide to the right but those are the other options slide to the left i mean oh yeah i i like the monochrome i like they're so good i love that this is the one it's really good looking come on

yeah so are you having okay are you having fun like getting wedding wedding planning and design like interior design is that's all kind of a lot of pinterest boards it is yeah we we're on the very early stages of the planning so fun yeah like we have to find a place first okay i feel like and then yeah place first location first then date yeah like. And then place first, location first, then date. Yeah. Once you know the time of year and where you're doing it, I think the rest fills in the gap. Yeah. That's exciting.

Still early. Yeah. That's exciting. How have you been? What's new? I've been good. By Coastal? By Coastal.

I have a New York apartment. I have a New York apartment. This is my dream. Thank you. Yeah. I got a new boyfriend. Slay Queen. Yes. Thank you. Slay Queen. I heard somebody call Marina Del Rey Marina Del Slay recently. apartment my dream thank you yeah i've got a i got a new boyfriend queen yes thank you

slay queen i heard somebody call marina del rey marina del slay recently marina does like yes i'm bicostal which is like i don't know how somehow i i i'm presenting as bougie now i don't know what happened uh yeah i i things are working out for art of marine right now you're glowing i feel really good. You look great. Thanks. You got a denim onesie on? I got a Khloe Kardashian Good American jumpsuit. I was going to ask.

Can I just say? Do you want to showcase it for us? This is a YouTube channel. Yeah, to give us a spin. I have a really long torso, so sometimes the jumpsuit's hard. Look at that. You get some stretch. Ooh.

Ooh. Yeah. And you can kind of move around. Love it. It fits you perfectly. You get some stretch. Oh. Ooh. Yeah. It's got, like, and you can kind of, like, move around. Love it. It fits you perfectly. It's really good. It's really good. And I feel like when you have, because I would also identify as having a longer torso, and

it's just, like, sometimes it doesn't feel great in the crotch. This one, I feel like those Kardashians, you know, I got to give it to Khloe. Like, Lauren Lapkus was the one. She was like, you got to try it. I was like, I don't know. I don't know I don't know and she's like try it it's got stretch to it and you know when I hadn't been single in a long time I was married for a long time and I got divorced a couple years ago when I was getting ready to like go on dates out of the pandemic I'm like what do you wear so I got a couple jumpsuits what do you wear what's your What was your dating? Thank you for asking. Yeah, dating. Uniform?

Uniform or. Because somebody said one time like as a tip for going on first dates, have one outfit that you wear on every first date. I figured that out because when I do stand up, I go through phases where I'll have my stand up outfit. Yeah, because I felt like I didn't want to. It's coming out of the pandemic. So like I'd never. I had been with my ex like apps weren't a thing so i'd never like been on dates with like you were like off the game i was off it was my

entire adult life so so it was like trying to figure out i'm like what who how do you present yourself and you need like first date second date you need like coffee drinks i found i had like a cute free people bodysuit that had like a scoop, but it was like kind of a cute red and then like a skirt that I would wear. That was your go-to date. That was my date one. Cause it had a little cleavage, but it was like cute, like flirty. It wasn't too much. That was sort of my like meet and greet. Like, and then, cause I also learned like a jumpsuit's fun, but then it's also like inconvenient, jumpsuit's fun but then it's also like inconvenient inconvenient yeah it's also it's like it's sort of a good first date because

you're it's kind of a cock block yeah it is a for sure cock my my now boyfriend in the best possible way no ideas buddy this is too it's like a denim chastity belt. You and I both know. It's a full denim chastity belt. Yeah. Yeah. It was. And when you are, like if you're nervous, like if you get social anxiety and like if you want to like, if you're on the date, you're adding to your anxiety when you go to the bathroom and you have to just get like.

And you're naked. Fully nude. Fully nude. So vulnerable. In a shared bathroom. To close right your ankles. And literally, the locks never lock, and somebody comes in, and you're like,

it's occupied, like your titties are out, you know, and you're trying to calm down and see if you're connecting with. Cause then you feel like the creep when they walk in and you're all the way naked. You're like, I'm naked in this Chipotle bathroom. You're scrolling on your phone. I'm texting my friend naked.

Like at a midday coffee date, fully nude, like texting. How's it going? Like, well, I don't have my clothes on right now. I'm in the bathroom. Like trying to hang on to the stall door. So I would say I bought some jumpsuits for dates and then I realized like they look cute,

but they're not great when it's actually going well and it's like time to make out and it's not great to go to the bathroom. Okay. So something I love is that when I'm going on Canva to make a graphic for Instagram, whatever it may be, one of the features that Canva for Teams has is it will have your design toolkit. So we have like, you know, our signature for a screen, the colors that we tend to use aesthetically for our designs are all right there in front of me that I can select from. So Canva for Teams, in addition to having all of the amazing tools that you need to design as an individual, create the connectivity and the communication without needing to exchange an email with someone being like, hey, what's the exact scene, like color

number for the green that we use and makes it available right there. It also has up to date edits from everybody who's working on a document to make sure that nobody's like repeating themselves, doing something over again. It helps Ali and I stay super organized as we're creating like all different kinds of content. Yeah. And I feel like a lot of times with creative stuff, you only benefit by being collaborative, but you don't want it to be messy. You don't want a bunch of different emails around like you just want it to be messy. You don't want a bunch of different emails around. You just want it to be streamlined. Well, whether you are working in a team or by yourself, you must have Canva to design

the coolest stuff. Canva has always been great to design whoever you are. And now it's even better when you're working at a team. Collaborate with Canva for teams. Right now, you can get a free 45-day extended trial when you go to canva.me slash viall. That's canva.me slash viall for a free 45-day extended trial. Canva.me slash viall. Woo, hey, all my beer, wine, and spirits fans out there.

Drizzly is the most convenient way to buy beer, wine, and spirits fans out there. Drizzly is the most convenient way to buy beer, wine, and spirits with delivery to your doorstep in under 60 minutes. We've all been to those parties where we didn't buy enough of spirits or beverages. You just go on your phone, you put in your order, and in less than 60 minutes, more beer, more wine, more spirits will show up right to your door and you can still be winning in Pictionary or whatever it is, whatever game that you're playing on game night. It doesn't have to ruin your vibe. You do not have to take a timeout for dominating the cornhole board. No, you just go right to your Drizzly app, get your spirits and conveniently anything you want drink wise will be delivered right to your Drizzly app, get your spirits, and conveniently anything you want drink-wise will be delivered right to your home.

Even if it's before the party has started, if you just want to check an errand off your to-do list, Drizzly has a really good selection. It has really good prices. For my birthday the other year, I had friends who lived all the way in New York. They sent me wine through Drizzly. It was such a thoughtful way of having a gift hand-delivered,

even though they couldn't do that in person, was just such a meaningful and thoughtful thing. So there is so many ways to use it you know what a great use case is think of all the parties you get invited to you can't make it and you know what you do when you show up to like a house party you bring a bottle of wine or a case of beer well maybe you can't show up but you can bring the wine that you would have otherwise brought is a nice little like sorry i couldn't be be there. Here's a tasty beverage on me. I use Drizzly. What was that? About a month ago, it was your engagement party, Nick. And I had a little pre-engagement party party at my apartment. And Amanda's boyfriend likes a very specific kind

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But now we have a boyfriend. Now we have a boyfriend. Eight months. Congratulations. Best part about this new relationship. He's really fun fun he makes me laugh my ex was a very nice person but was more of an indoor cat and like this person i can kind of snuggle up with and have fun with but like he's a rascal and we're just going everywhere like i

would like to be described as a rascal yeah i get to your i think you are a rascal. I don't know. No one's ever said that Nick, what a rascal. No, I only was in, I was only, I've never, that's not true. I've never heard that one.

You're lying. I've gotten a lot of other stuff. You're lying. Well, it's like, I think you're a little bit rascally, but you're also a little bit curmudgeonly. And so it like balances out. I've got an indoor cat too.

I'm an indoor cat. I present as an outdoor cat. I present as like an alley cat, but deep down inside, I'm an extroverted indoor cat. I'm an alley cat. I'm more of an outdoor cat. A stray cat?

Yeah, because alley cats are the ones who are actually more like skittish. Like indoor cats are like, have known a life of luxury and comfort. Yeah. Now, my introduction to you.

I'm still a little pressed though. Yeah. But Tim my introduction to you. I'm still a little pressed though, yeah. But Tim, I met you, I'd never seen The Bachelor before Caitlin's season. So my introduction to you, you came for me full rascal. Full rascal. Full rascal. Full rascal.

Like her tail was wagging. And she's like, and I didn't know who you were because I'd never seen, I never saw your, I've never seen that season. So I knew nothing about you. And my friend was like making me watch the show I was like all right I'll watch it and of course I was obviously immediately hooked but I I remember the introduction of you and you showed up and I'm like all I what thought was who is this who is this right because

her reaction to you is like you don't get that for a non-rasco like that's full rascal response it's like she goes it's neck like she was literally like like her like a chihuahua with their tail wagging respect um it was like it's like she was exploding at that like boy band thing and you and so the to me you're full right i do have rascal energy. Obviously. Great. Like rascal son. Rascal flats, honey. Rascal flats, yeah. That can be your drag name is rascal flats. Yeah, I think you have full rascal. So yes, what I like about this guy is he's a fun rascal. He's a fun rascal.

He's a fun rascal. But he's very good at checking and making plans. But we went to Paris. We went to Vegas. We're going to Tahoe. We're going to Austin. Wow. We're going all over.

The love tour. I'm having my own bachelorette season. Next time you go to Paris, there's this wonderful little best chicken I've ever had. Where, where, where? Love this chicken. It was this little diner called Loop. Okay. It was like chicken, a roterie chicken with like gravy and potatoes

and bread nice and it was just fucking good paris gets bread right oh they really do they really are like hey you're keto i don't think so america here's your freaking bread and honestly you don't get you don't get bloated i didn't i didn't or stuffed up or no because you're in france you can't they don't allow it it's against the law it's against the law you're literally gonna get kicked out of the country what is my date go to what was my jeans and a t-shirt i guess guys have it easier yeah what was your what was your date what's your date go to ellie like literally very similar to what i wear to work like jeans a body suit and then a blazer or a jacket body suit yeah i. Yeah. I wore a bodysuit on Thursday and I related to you. How did that go? It went well.

Okay, now bodysuit has a similar kind of a chastity belt situation as a jumpsuit. I literally wore this. Okay, that looks like the one I wore. That looks like the one I wore in red.

Who makes that? This is from Aritzia. I love Aritzia, obviously. Also, long torso. So again, you're aware of it. It's giving you a how do you do, but it's kind of sexy. But again, there's a fabric

blocking uh-huh you're there's a fabric damn i am safe i am yeah part of it says are you sure you want to do this that's right yeah that's right yeah and i appreciated that like on the first couple days i intentionally was like i don't want to i don't want to. I don't want to. Like with all of LA. It's just not me. So let me just smooch on the sidewalk and see how it goes. I don't know. So the date went well.

Did you smooch on the sidewalk? She has a bit of a smile. Where was the date? She wasn't sure she wanted to go on the date. Was it an app date? Yes. First date? We'd done a the date. Was it an app date? Yes. First date? We'd done a video date.

This is our first in-person. And you went to his place? Yes. Wow. Yes. Some wine on a balcony, right? Yeah. Okay.

This little pool area. So you wore the bodysuit? I literally went straight from work. I dropped her off and just went. And did you smooch? Yeah. Did the bod body suit become inconvenient i mean he noticed i was wearing one yeah i was like oh it's a body suit and i was like yep

that's right that's right yeah it is that's right he texts his friends how do i never get a body exactly exactly he did he's fully nude in the bathroom texting his friends you're like, it's the only way people can self-soothe on a date. Okay. There you go. Do you have a second date lined up? I think we're going to do the exact same thing this week.

So I'm going to leave straight from the live show. Every, really? Every Thursday. Better date than never. Yeah. Great way to plug. Great time to plug.

Don't forget, every Thursday, better date than never. 9 p.m. Eastern, 6 p.m. Pacific. Where Allie pregames her date. It's our live dating show. That's fun. Yeah.

And people are like, well, it's live. So we record it live. It's turned into a sex dating show where we basically talk about people's sexual preferences and different sex conversations and first date topics. And then we just read people's comments. Exciting. And it's turned into a really fun, wild, wacky show. Yeah.

I'm often inebriated. Fun. Yeah. Right? Is it? No. Sure. I'm smoking weed.

Just the way you say that is kind of like. Okay. I'm so self-conscious about acknowledging. I don't care. The weed smoking. Smoke as much as you. I don't give a. I could not give a I could not stand up comedy

not you Arden but to the world to the world because you know if you have a drink you're cool if you smoke weed you're degenerate

oh you think I think for a lot of people I think not necessarily LA I went to college in Colorado I've been so desensitized to weed

from such a young age I'm not good at it personally you're not good at smoking personally i always you're not good at smoking weed no i go right to middle earth okay i do not pass giggle i go right to like that's natalie natalie was zonk yeah yeah i'll be like are you okay and i forget that she smoked she'll just be staring at a wall i could do a gummy okay because i think first of all more of a body high i like it because i feel like I can also just nibble.

I feel like I can kind of- You nibble on a gummy? I can just do a little at a time. You know what I mean? I feel like I can- You can't take the whole thing, then you're gone. Oh. It depends on the gum, I guess.

I mean, she's a real lightweight that you're talking to here. This person cannot. So if I, and first of all, gummies are delish. Second of all, I feel like if I have a little bit, it just mellows me out and I don't get terrified. Okay. You never get paranoid no well

do I all the time but it doesn't exacerbate it no do you have anxiety in life yes me too

yeah my resting state is anxious me too yeah when's your birthday September 28th interesting Virgo

Libra Libra nice love it well before we get into tea Lala Kent joins us from Vanderpump Rules this Thursday

on Going Deeper fun lots of tea hot goss hot goss there hot goss yeah she's in the middle of that hot

anything else we need a promo before we get into some batch if you called into an Ask Nick show send us an update we would really like to know

how you're doing check in don't forget on March 10th we are launching Vile Files Plus. What's that? It's our premium service. Okay. Yeah. Cool. So all the episodes of Better Date Than Never that are live, if you don't get to listen live, they will be available to everyone there. Also, we have our update shows that we do once a month. We'll have multiple update shows behind Vile Files Plus, plus a bunch of premium content like a bunch of pop culture topics

we don't talk about, recaps of other shows and things like that. It's going to be a wild, wild time. That's fun. I like it. Good for you. Look at you go.

Yeah, just right. You don't have to go to Patreon or anything else. It's just, it's going to be real simple. You can listen to it and listen to the Vile Files plus Vile Files plus all in the same place. Super convenient. Look at your empire.

Look at, yeah, we're just growing. Good job. That's huge. That's awesome. We're excited. So March 10th, we're dropping that. Look for more details around Vile Files plus. All right, Allie, let's get into it.

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for 20% off when you become a client. Talkify.com slash V-I-A-L-L. I wanted to start with, obviously we discussed a lot last week about the Zach and Greer situation that happened on the FaceTime kind of rose ceremony. Yeah, where he was a total dick tour. For trying to relate with me working in sales.

Nothing like that at all yeah i cannot like preview there's two people i hated this episode yeah zach yes for two weeks in a row i cannot and brooklyn oh i liked brooklyn i hated her but i liked brooklyn we'll fight about that we'll fight about that i liked brooklyn. Jack, once again. But yeah, Greer, God forbid a woman has like, I've never heard somebody say Q4 and goals on this show. And I was like, yeah. And then shaming, like slapping her wrist repeatedly. I cannot.

So they both have like kind of responded to that in the week since. Greer posted on Instagram, just she kind of did like a different carousel of various moments. And her caption was, women who care about their careers are hot. Yeah. I love that. And Zach had an interview with Variety and they brought it up to him. And he said that looking back, she was trying to relate to him.

He was frustrated and definitely could have delivered his sentiment in a more respectful and calm way. He said, quote, it was one of those conversations that was just off. No excuse. I should have responded better. I 100% get where she's coming from.

Did he apologize? That does not sound like it. Frustrated by what? That she has a career? I think frustrated when he was pent up with COVID. Yeah, I understand why. COVID, he was frustrated. I get why he was probably not in the the best state of mind he probably

still didn't feel well too yeah but I think it was so bad that it requires a actual reaching out to to Greer to say and maybe he'll get that maybe he'll get that at women tell all if not I mean not cool we'll get to it but yeah there was another moment where moment where like, yeah. And like what she said, what she said in the car, like God forbid, you have a second. Let's wait, let's wait,

let's wait. Cause I'm really going to go full ham. I can't wait. We're all on the same page here. But not Brooklyn. I, okay. That's fun.

Preview. Yeah. That will be a good debate. Speaking of this TV show, Chris Harrison. Okay. Comments on returning to the bachelor as the host this seems to be also popping up in news cycles he says i live by the axiom never say

never because in life and business that comes back to bite you in the butt would i have that conversation yes i also believe in relationships and in business take the phone call and you listen and you have the conversation whether it's uncomfortable or not. With the advent of this podcast, they've seen the numbers. They've seen the response on my social media. They're not deaf to all of that.

I cannot. They've seen what's happening. So am I shocked these conversations are happening? No, it would not be a surprise. In fact, I would be shocked if they aren't happening. Meaning they're not happening,

but he's willing them to happen. It's like a vision board press statement. He's manifesting. He's got crystals. So, wait, based off podcast numbers, you're going to get a... Well, then, shit. I mean, get ready. Get ready.

Yeah. They must be talking about you, too. I mean, yeah, he's never going to be the host of the show again. But I like that he's doing a press release about somebody that hasn't called yet saying that he would talk.

Well, there was a story that came out. Now he's responding to it. Yeah. And I just thought it was kind of humorous that he was like, based on this podcast,

I'd be shocked if those conversations aren't happening. It just feels very big ego. I love it. My lawyer and I right here are very surprised. Every time she does

this, I'm like, did you consent to her being on your lap? Yeah. She knew. She could tell. I'm an animal fan. She could feel it in me. Kiki, you slept. She's not scared of the fact that I'm wearing a denim cock block. She loves that denim cock block. I can get through that. I don't care.

Look at that. She's like, I'm naked through that. I don't care. Look at that. She's like, I'm naked all the time. Let's go to the bathroom together. Good sneakers. Those are cute. I got them in Chicago this weekend. They're so cute. Adding to my Converse collection.

I love them. I love a Converse. So do I. It's a staple. That would be your staple look. It is. My man friend wears sneakers. The Converse. Con sneakers, the Converse.

Converse, only Converse. The rascal? The rascal. The rascal? Yeah. Maybe you are a rascal, Nick. Maybe you are a rascal. It's all in the shoes.

You definitely have some rascal in there. I love it. Again, I met you as a rascal. I don't know about the curmudgeon. I'm going to go with my friend Nick's a rascal. Okay, great. Thank you. You're welcome.

Thank you. All right, well, the episode starts, and Zach is out of quarantine. And we're in Estonia. We're in Estonia, which is like, isn't that really close to Ukraine and Russia? I believe so, yes. It's in Eastern Europe. Wasn't it former USSR? I think so.

I'm pretty sure, not to get all into world politics, that Estonia is nextussia's like places they want to take over yeah well it's in the north so like ukraine is all the way in the south but it's like shares that same border with russia it's like estonia latvia anyway yeah it feels it feels a little bit there's like a hot breath of putin right there a little close talking yeah it's like a little close on the neck a couple sticks back yeah well. Well, that's drama. Yeah. That's the real bachelor tea. Anyways, Jesse

sits down with Zach. Jesse. They dust off Jesse. The what? They dust off Jesse. They're like, wake up. He's like the toys

in Toy Story like can only come alive like at certain points and has to just. And has to be like, well, it seems like that was really hard for you, man. I love how Jesse's always and Chris would do this too. He always talks about Toy Story like can only come alive like at certain points and has to be like well it seems like that was really hard for you man I love that Jesse's always like and Chris would do this too he always

talks about how he knows how excited these people are are going to be for these dates yeah they're just so excited to see you yeah no when he literally was saying that Greer was in quarantine or was under the weather and he's like well tell her I hope she gets better soon and Jesse's like I know that'll mean a lot I know I was like oh did he give her COVID as punishment for having ambition yeah and then and then his like complete lack of like do you think at that point he knew he was a dick and so then he has to be like there was no empathy like It was like, well, tell that, you know, girl boss that I hope she's okay. That's what she gets for doubting my intentions of love. I could never find a wife.

Oh, really? You're six foot four. You're handsome. You live in Austin with a good job. You can't find somebody. I find that hard to believe. In Greer, of all people, to get COVID. You know? Also, how did Gabby escape?

They certainly didn't remove her or UB40 at all. They just left her right in the middle of the pot. When he got COVID, she'd been making out with him. They'd been sniffing perfume. I've seen so many memes of him smelling that thing, and it's like when Zach realizes he has COVID. I can't smell anything. He's like, what is this? And she's like, it smells like Christmas and weed. He's like when Zach realizes he has COVID. I can't smell anything. He's like, what is this?

And she's like, it smells like Christmas and weed. And he's like, oh, no. Marijuana? Air? That devil's weed that Nick Viles smokes? Well, Charity finally gets her one-on-one. Yeah. I'm glad they did that.

I was worried. Don't dangle it. I was worried that they were like, well, we had our schedule and she I'm glad they did that. I was worried. Don't dangle it. I was worried that they were like, well, we had our schedule and she was supposed to be last week. I was worried.

I was really hoping this episode, and this is not for like, I didn't really care who it was going to be. I just wanted Zach to like send someone home on a one-on-one.

Yes. Mix it up. Yes. Yeah. Clearly that didn't happen. Every time he has a date,'m like oh that's the front runner and like there's nobody that there's a few that are starting to pop out but like he just is like all in on everybody yeah well this starts the the great debate yeah zach comes in greets

the women he hasn't seen any of these women in a very long time a week in that world it does feel like a long time and also for some of the world, it does feel like a long time. And also, for some of the women, it's been longer than a week. Right? Because they might not have seen him. Maybe they saw him at the rose ceremony, but many of these women have spent almost no one-on-one

time, haven't had a conversation with them in maybe two weeks. Because, yeah, they traveled to, where were they just in london they had to travel to london gabby was the first one-on-one and then everything shut down yeah they've now traveled to estonia so yeah yeah so for cat for example long long time for everyone for everyone okay for everyone here we go and cat uh-huh has the audacity, just the classless behavior, as Brooke would say. Oh, okay.

Just classless. Okay, okay. Because she wants to have a few minutes of alone time with a guy she is falling in love with. It's kind of a rascal move on Kat's part. And is expected to possibly get engaged to in a couple weeks. to like, you know, possibly get engaged to in a couple weeks. And how dare she take some

time to talk to Zach. All of them want to do that though. And they all could have delayed Charity's date by like three hours. I just feel like you don't do it to Charity. It's weird because this group of women is actually like better friends than any

groups have been like i feel like he eliminates any drama immediately so like the fun television has all been cut like give me give me a mandrell back i want mandrell yeah back i know we miss her she was i can't wait for paradise she's fantastic television yes i can't believe we didn't get to go to the grand old opry for hometowns but like i just feel like it was mean to do to Charity who got. How was it mean? Because last week she got blocked. I just felt.

It's the disrespect of like. The disrespect. No, go on your little date with him. He has my lip gloss on him. The lip gloss. You guys are. First of all, I just want to say at this point in the season, if you are worried about fairness and other people getting their time, you're in it for the wrong reasons. But you're the OG rascal because you mixed it up.

You are the OG rascal. I'm simply saying there are people at this stage in the game, you know, when there are seven, eight, nine, how many people are left? There were nine to start the episode. At this stage of the game, if you are not like thinking about how do I make more of a connection with Zach? If you're not starting to be fantasizing about the future, if you're not missing him like crazy

where you're starting to lose your mind and you're thinking about people taking turns and you're thinking about fairness and other people getting their time, you're just about people taking turns and you're thinking about fairness and other people getting their time. You're just not there for Zach. You're not there for a relationship. Disagree. I disagree.

As someone who's been in that world, I can tell you your priorities are not focused on the relationship. I feel like women are raised to be polite to each other. And this is like that. Like and which is good and bad. And I it's something that i like about myself and i also don't like the reality is you are living with these eight other people who it's like being a good respectful having a sportsmanship i see what you're saying but there are going to be ramifications because it's breaking like bachelor rules yeah yeah

it's like saying saying like, yeah, like Bachelor Rules makes it seem like some like stuffy like when it's like actually just like how do people coexist in a way that feels

like respectful and fair to them. Explain to me how Kat in any way impacted charities by pulling Zach and doing whatever. Explain to me how

how she negatively impacted charities time. She delayed the date. How do me how she negatively impacted Charity's time. She delayed the date. How? How do you know that? You don't know that. Well, they used a time watch to stop time. As someone who knows how those days work, I'm telling you, she didn't delay shit.

But it changes the whole energy of it. And it feels very much like, no, I get to go take him because I'm the better connection. And then you can go play with it. I agree with you. I think that I think that, look, as a person who as a person who does have anxiety and gets nervous and gets. So like I would have been nervous and like gearing up and excited. This has been building and building. Last week she was ready and then it didn't happen.

She finally got it. And then so you're nervous enough for the date to have the sexiest one there pull him aside and be like it's like this date has been an inflating balloon yeah like anticipation yeah and cat came in with like a little needle and like when you're sort of like the nice girl and then like the sexiest girl in school is like let me just like don't forget about me have fun with your little like sweet friend but remember that but that's not what she did she just pulled him aside to have some time with zach you're a guy you're the guy the gals here i would have felt insecure it would have it would have rattled me but that that would have been a you problem no i agree but i just don't like again like i understand

it wasn't the polite thing to do i i acknowledge that Kat wasn't thinking about anyone but her relationship with Zach. I acknowledge that. But I don't think that makes her classless. Or I don't think she deserves Brooklyn bullying her all week. That's a separate conversation. I think we should discuss Brooklyn's reaction separate. Because I think we'll have more of a spectrum of behavior. But you talk about character all the time.

Do you think it's high character? Do you think this is low character? I don't think it high character with katie's because it's unkind we're talking about character on the bachelor because she is a she's she is at this point one of the few women who's got a one-on-one and is having developing reeling feelings for this guy and i'm telling you as someone who's been in that world you're literally start thinking about holy shit i might get engaged yeah engaged to this guy everybody else is thinking that and they didn't have to do that why but why your your job is not to think about everyone else's engagement that's insane it's kind of part of the equation though i mean you're probably i see your point i do see i do see your point and i i do see if. And I do see how, yeah, if you actually want to get married, I understand what you're saying.

But I feel like, I guess it's like the schoolyard rules. You've never been so like in love and excited. You really are thinking, have you ever shared a boyfriend before? Like you're talking about- Not on purpose. You're talking about things that, you know, I'm talking about sharing boyfriends or girlfriends. That sounds awful. I'm talking about having romantic feelings

and the pressures of getting engagement. And like, I know what that feeling is in that insane, unrealistic environment. And you guys are applying real-world rules to a non-real-world environment. No, you're right.

You've been through it. You've been through it. And I'm saying that at this stage in the game, there's two groups of people. Okay. There are people who are developing feelings. Yeah. And there are people who aren't.

Brooklyn knows she has no shot with Zach. She knows. She knows she's not in it. She's gonna kill it in paradise. She might be your bachelorette. I want Brooklyn as bachelorette. She knows she's not in it. She's going to kill it in paradise. She might be your bachelorette. I want Brooklyn as bachelorette. She'd be so cute. Yeah.

I love her. I think she's a bully. Oh, okay. One thing about Nick, he loves a good routine. When he finds something he likes, he sticks with it. True story.

I'm talking coffee, I'm talking turkey sandwiches, and I'm talking AG1 by Athletic Greens. He drinks AG1 by Athletic Greens every single day. And that is not an exaggeration. I love it because it tastes good. It's not filled with sugar. It's packed with 75 vitamins, minerals, and whole food source ingredients of the highest quality that gives me major benefits like gut health, mood support, boosts of energy, and even healthier looking skin and nails and hair. Because if you are doing stuff to individually target all of those, you end up with like a fistful of pills. And the nice thing about Athletic Greens is it makes

doing something better for yourself the easiest habit you could possibly build. Yeah, so it's an awesome and easy habit you can develop in under a minute. Such an easy way to take supplements and vitamins. If you're looking for an easier way to do so, Athletic Greens is giving you a free one year supply of vitamin D and five free travel packs with your first purchase. So go to athleticgreens.com slash vile files. That's athleticgreens.com slash V-I-A-L-L-F-I-L-E-S. Check it out. But yeah, she just, you can tell she is not thinking about her relationship with Zach. She's thinking about everyone getting a turn and having their TV moment and fairness. And if you were someone who was falling in love with someone in an environment and you

knew that there was an engagement maybe three weeks away, you wouldn't be thinking about this stuff. I don't even know if it's TV moment. I honestly think maybe I'm wrong, but like, I feel like we are, I'll just speak for myself. I feel like I was so socialized as a human female to not rock the boat, to try to be a good friend. And it's, and to the detriment, I think in some ways, like, I wish I didn't have that. I think in some ways I would probably be farther in certain areas of my life if I was a little more like cutthroat. It's I don't I'm not proud of that. But I think I think it literally would bring me back to like camp or schoolyard, like just primal core.

That's not fair. Fair is fair. And it doesn't mean that I don't think it's about not being interested. I think when you feel like somebody's being unfair, it's like trying a little kid. Sure, but you make a great point. And if that's the case, I empathize and I certainly can't relate. But then shouldn't we be praising Kat

for doing the opposite, for going for what she wanted, for like standing in her power and not worrying about stepping on people's toes and having a genuine reaction to a guy she genuinely has feelings for, who she hasn't seen in a long time, and not in any way affecting Charity's date at all. They were just all sitting there. And usually what they do is they just make you sit there until something happens.

If you guys aren't going to talk, we'll just make you sit until drama unfolds or whatever. It has nothing to do. Also, let me tell you another story, another way to look at it. Instead of thinking that in any way that a cat negatively affected Charity's date. Now, again, this is a one-off story. I have no idea if this applies to this, but when I was the bachelor, we were in New Orleans and I had a date set up with Rachel Lindsay, who I really liked, was one of my favorites. But like Vanessa at that point was like, I was going to pick her. And I hadn't seen her in a long time, right? And sometimes, you never really know, sometimes weeks start where just like Zach did this week, he walks into the room, kind of greets all the women and pulls his one-on-one date. But it's an opportunity to kind of see everyone, right? Sometimes the dates start where you meet them on a date, right?

And in the back of my mind, I woke up that day. I just, for whatever reason, I thought that I was going to walk into the hotel room and pull Rachel, but I thought I was going to be able to see Vanessa. And I missed her because at this point, I knew I was going to pick her and I I missed her because like at this point I knew I was gonna pick her and I just wanted to see her right and I found out that the date was gonna start like in town that I wasn't gonna go pull Rachel I was just gonna go and I I kind of threw it a little fit like I I was so beside I was just like rattled because my expectation was that I was going to see her and I was just like not in the right headspace so much that they were like, do you want to, do you want to go? We'll go. And I'm like, no, it's fine. Like I'm just, I'm just overreacting. I'm just kind of stressed out or whatever. It's not a big deal.

But like, it took me a half, half of the day to get out of my head that I didn't see Vanessa so that I could enjoy Rachel. And had I just walked into the room, got to look at Vanessa at the time and just like have a moment, I would have gotten the quote unquote Vanessa fix that I was expecting in my head so that I could have focused on Rachel, but I didn't. So in reality, that affected my time with Rachel because I didn't get to see the person I kind of wanted to see for a week. So we don't really know how it was going to affect. So what I'm saying is, for all we know, Zach really was thinking about Kat and was thinking about her. And maybe him having that quick moment with Kat allowed him to be like, you know what? I missed her. I just wanted to see her, but I got to, and now I can focus on Charity.

So to suggest that somehow we know that Kat ruined Charity's date by having a kiss, I'm telling you, as someone who's been in Zach's position, we at least have no idea. It could go both ways. It's so wild that you've been so in this machine. I'm fascinated hearing this stuff. I'm like, it's so interesting. And I remember it ruined half the date with Rachel. So I have a question for you, which is like, so under this premise premise kind of what you're saying is it's all fair in love and war so people can do whatever

they want as long as they feel it is true to themselves and following their heart in this process so there's no behavior that is like out of line or I mean it does not matter if you are respectful to the rest of the group it is just about doing whatever you generally speaking if you have real feelings for someone and your goal is to advance your relationship i mean i'm sure there's exceptions to every rule but i would say yeah it's fine but do you understand why cat has kind of become the villain in this world yeah because all the other girls are upset that they didn't do that and they didn't get their time and instead of just just giving Kat the props

for not worrying about politeness, she decided to, you know, I'm sure she was really fucking nervous. I just feel like Kat's being a scab, where it's like, yeah, okay, you got your bag, but you broke the picket line. Thank you. I also feel like, I'm not saying it's just,

but there's parts of it that I like. I'm proud of for being, I feel like, being... Assertive? Or being a good friend and like being... I play tennis. I'm not saying I'm proud of for being I feel like being assertive or being a good friend and like being I play tennis I'm not saying I'm necessarily good at it but I play tennis and there are certain people that are very good on the court but they're poor sports and it's not fun to play with them it's fun to play with somebody who is an elegant winner and an elegant loser and like they're to me like I don't know.

Who was the poor sport here? Was it Brooklyn or was it Kat? Kat! How was she? She played the victim. She wasn't a team player. It's one thing if you're like, you know what, I did. She played the, she, she didn't, she was playing the game aggressively.

If we're using tennis analogies, she rushed the net kind of thing and spiked it in her face. She went to go to the bathroom and she said, I'm serving. Oops, I scored a point. She didn't go to the bathroom,

she didn't run. You can rush the net and spike it. It's like, if you like throw your racket or are like kind of track, you know, it's like, it's like, there's just,

I don't know. I, I look, I'm not, I would, I would probably not win. You know, I would probably be like, Oh, we all like her. You Look, I'm not... I would probably not win. I would probably be like,

oh, we all like her. I would not have it in me to make it all the way to the end. You would be like the Jess. Everyone gets a petal of energy. You guys are all talking like she showed up in the middle of their date at dinner and pulled Zach. And it's just like this all happened

before the date even started and Charity's acting like... And I'm sure everyone who's listening to this is agreeing with y'all. Like I'm certain that everyone's just like, shut the fuck up, Nick. But I'm telling you, like, it's just, it makes no sense. Like it just, it doesn't make sense that this whole, we talk about right reasons and building a relationship. And then here's this woman going out of her way i'm sure she was super nervous and worried what people were going to say but she just wanted to see a guy she had feelings for and she just had a moment with him and we're we're treating her like she's the most wicked poor sport low character as a man is suggesting

that like she's a scab i'm sorry you call These are words. Your words. No, I know. But you've also, never mind. Never mind. I think the Brooklyn discussion is rich because I think her reaction was like huge. I also, do you have, before we like close this out, do you have anything to say about the way that she like very much pretended to be a victim in that situation? What do you mean pretended to be a victim? Brooklyn went after her and called her classless. So it's like.

And she stood up for herself if your point is like you can do all's fair in love and war do whatever you want ramifications actions have consequences if you're gonna piss off the house yeah and cats i don't know why they're all reacting a bully picks on someone who is like a bully just like picks a victim or a target like this was like i do do i think brooklyn's behavior was like fully called for no i think some of her words were kind of harsh i don't i think it was really out of line for her to like she deserved to be called classless anyone could have done that anyone nobody else did no she was the only person this is a nice group of people who want to stand out

are classless people who want to take a risk are classless? It's how they do it. How could she have done that? Wait for a cocktail party. Why should she? Why? No, no. Or do it like Katie did.

So you're saying that she couldn't have done that? Because I'm asking how could Kat have gotten some extra time? Katie. Katie with the care package. Do what Katie did with the care package. Well, that only works when the producers help you out and allow you to sneak out and set aside time. Katie. Katie with the care package. Do what Katie did with the care package. Oh, yeah. Well, that only works when the producers help you out and allow you to sneak out

and set aside time for you. Yeah. And the producers probably probably said, well, if you want a poem, go pull them right now. They probably set her up. Well, they realized

they don't have a villain, too. I think they knew it would start a firestorm. Also, aren't you excited? Because you had called it all along. You were like, there's something about Kat

where she's crazy and some crazy to her. Yeah, yeah, there's something about Kat. We're like, she's crazy. I'm like, I'm crazy to her. But I was wrong. I think she has every right to be upset. And I think all she did was do something bold and assertive. And she took her risk. And not because she wanted to fuck anyone over. And not because she wanted to be classless.

And not because she was inconsiderate. It's because she cares about Zach. And she went a week and a half without seeing him. And instead of sitting back and pulling the Jess card, which is kind of do nothing until it's too late. No, no, that's not the way to go either. She decided to take a risk and like be there for the right reasons, which is to evolve and elevate and advance a relationship.

I respect your hot take. And all these other people are just like waiting around for their turn at a cocktail party. And that is not how you advance a relationship and build a relationship. That is how you get airtime. That is how you get followers. That is how you become likable on TV.

She got airtime. She got airtime. Yeah. She got more than Jess did. She took a risk for herself and the relationship, not for TV or to be more likable or to be respectful. It could be for TV. She's now the villain.

I don't think she wanted that energy. I do respect your hot take. I can see what you're saying, that it isn't the end of the world, that it is just a pull and a kiss. But with a group of people that have become friends where there is no villain, you're the new villain. And it depends on your values.

If you're a bachelor and you're like, hell yeah, that was powerful and assertive. I like that. I want someone who goes after what they want. Then it's awesome. And then somebody else, if I were in a situation where someone did that, I would be like, ooh, I didn't like the way...

Everybody's allowed to have different reactions to that. And it's about the characteristics and value. Totally. I think Brooklyn's a bully because I think one I think why why Kat was right why did she have to start calling her names she could have just said I really didn't like that you do that did that it wasn't the time I didn't think that was fair to charity that's all she had to say no she started calling her names. And then throughout the entire week, she wouldn't let up. She felt like she had the influence of the house. She felt like she was on the popular side of this argument.

And she took advantage of it by just relentlessly going after Kat because she knew that everyone else had her back. I feel like they were both activated, though. So the more Kat kept being a victim, the more... Brooklyn's really young. Isn't she like 22? 25. Is she?

Oh, she's 25. I thought she was like 22. Okay. Okay, I take that back. But it felt like... I kind of... Look, I'm so not direct like that. I love it.

I was like, holy... I am so bad at confrontation. I was like, whoa, she's she i respect that she's gonna say it right to her face she's not stirring the pot in the house she's not the person last week that was like i feel triggered like at the beach you know like she said she was gonna attack me like she's going right to the source which i respect i was like well this wild. Her lack of fear to go right to the source. And I think the more she could have dropped it, then, I mean, it was a lot.

But then Kat continuing to be like, I'm a victim. I think the two just kind of kept fanning the flame. Yeah. I bet Kat felt like a victim. Because like here she is. They always do. When someone's playing the victim, they always do feel like a victim. When you have the entire house going after you for what you felt like was just doing

a sincere thing and they wouldn't let up. What did you expect? I loved it. Ariel, to me, was the queen. I expected all this, but I just don't think it's right just because the house. I'm saying that to Kat. What did you expect after pulling it? Ariel was the one who handled it so well because when when Kat

was trying to get her sympathy Ariel was like she's like I wouldn't have done this without COVID she's like but you did do this like I felt like she was able in an elegant way to not um buy into the bullshit like I felt like she didn't co-sign Kat's narrative yeah I if I were Kat I wouldn't I wouldn't have I wouldn't have blamed it on i thought i thought that was a bad argument by cat i just felt like i wanted time with him and i just instead of i if i were cat and i'm sure it would have got it wouldn't have made me any more likable or less of a villain in the house but i've been like instead of being mad at me that i pulled zach i wish you just like focus on your own relationships and if you didn't want to like have a moment with zach there, that's fine.

I did. And Charity is now on a date and I'm sure she's having a great time. I didn't take anything away from Zach and I just wish you guys would just focus on your relationship with Zach and let me focus on mine and then we can all be happy.

Rascal Flats right there. That's a rascal Flats right there. There's a rascal in me. Oh, and I love when Katie was just like, when they were talking, she's like, yeah, and it was really concerning. Like they all act like what Kat did was just like the end of the fucking world.

We were just all caught off guard by that. That was just really, wow, we were just really taken back. I mean, they're so lucky that they don't have like a real bully in the house. I know. There's been no real issue to deal with. Well, he keeps like cutting them off the second that there's any drama. Yeah, I know I'm in the minority argument here

because you're all just suckers for the edit. I mean, yeah. Different values is different than suckers for the edit. No, you're suckers for the edit. I just don't get how the different values. You're dating the same person. In what world would anyone listening this episode or watching the show or in this room can speak to their values of allowing their boyfriend to make out with someone else and

then call that considerate? What? What? You lost me. I lost you too. And I experienced this on the show. Everyone's just like, well, that's just rude. That was inconsiderate.

I wouldn't have done that. You're not being a team player. You're not sharing. You're not waiting your turn. It's like you're dating the same fucking person. Why are you okay with that energy? No one wants to share their boyfriend or girlfriend in the real world. Yeah, but you signed up for The Bachelor.

That's why people get mad. I understand that. But at the end of. Yeah, but you signed up for The Bachelor. That's why people get mad. I understand that, but at the end of the day, they still end up with one. And just because you are agreeing to go to this crazy world doesn't mean you have to drastically change your values of wanting to advance a relationship. And it's just crazy to me that everyone watches this show acts as if just because that's how the show is designed.

They're supposed to completely rewire how they like see dating and relationships. Well, then that's why these women are like, you just made out with my boyfriend. Yeah. But like, then it's okay. Then it's wrong. I don't know. It's just like, because it's all about taking turns. It's just like, because there's a day card, like there's no rules in bachelor nation.

Like they're, they're, they're all meant to be broken. It's a TV show. Yeah. They're there to shake it up. And like we're like criticizing people's character because what? She like wanted to pull a guy and spend quality time

with a guy that she's hoping to get engaged to in maybe three weeks. I think she has a shot at winning except for he doesn't like drama. Exactly. So now that there's drama. I don't think she has a shot anymore. I thought she had a shot at winning, except for he doesn't like drama. Exactly. So now that there's drama. I don't think she has a shot at winning. I thought she had a shot before last night.

I thought she was going to win until last night. I think she's going to spiral because of this. Yeah, because he can't handle any negative feelings he can't deal with. What did you guys make of when he kind of addressed with her at the cocktail party, like saying that the energy felt kind of off on the group date? Did you think, did you think that was him like genuinely picking up on tension between her and Brooklyn?

Did you think the producers kind of tipped him off to something? I got tipped off. How do you think Kat would have reacted if charity would have done it to her? If like literally the roles were reversed? I don't know. I would like, she would have been thrilled. I would have liked this thing.

She had been fine. I, I can only, I can only speak to, I was someone who pulled Kat cat i was a rascal like cat he was rascal flat uh and i can assure you that at least for me i was just like yeah i respect man good for you you became the bachelor it paid off you know like i wasn't going to criticize people for doing the things that i wanted to do to advance my relationship but i also wasn't going to sit i did it give you a harder time in the house yeah

i literally became a villain out of it because everyone's just like all the guys were just it was all bro energy it was like hey man you're a good guy go go talk to my girl it was not my girl but that's the energy they would have to be like it's your turn man it's just like you're all and none of these guys knew all these guys i you could tell they were more concerned about having beers and telling jokes and they didn't give us they weren't talking about their relationship with andy you know i'm saying they weren't they just were having fun with each other and then when it was time to record a show and have their chats they like completely changed their energy and it was all it was all bachelor talk it was all like well it's

not my turn oh that's interesting and it and i and i i know that's what goes on in this house that's interesting that's an interesting the more genuine people are the ones who like act like they would in the real world well i think some people are who are very invested and genuine kind of react kind of like you're saying like as they would in the real world. And then I think for other people, like I don't think Katie or Gabby are any less into Zach because they didn't pull him. Like I think what it is

is that like when emotions get to this boiling point, there's like a divide where for some people it acts like it's like kind of a not up or shut up. Like I'm in this environment. I have to continue this and stay strong. And then for others,

it's a I'm going to get scrappy. I'm going to get creative. I'm going to kind of break the rules. Gabby and you're right. Gabby and Katie, you're right. Gabby and Katie didn't do what Kat did, but they also didn't get involved in the. Or we didn't see it in the edit because they want to protect their winner. Maybe, but I almost, you've never see the Gabby's and the Katie's of the world. Like if they never get involved in that type of drama.

I would never insert myself in that. It go back. It's always, it's always the people who clearly don't have the connection with the lead that get the most pissed off when shit like this goes down. It's just like, it's not fair. It's not my turn.

I haven't gotten my time and yada yada. And, and yeah, Gabby and Katie, they, you know, had their comments. I mean,

they showed like one word comments who we don't even know what they were talking about. It could have been literally anything, but like Gabby and Katie, they had their comments. I mean, they showed like one word comments. We don't even know what they were talking about. It could have been literally anything. But like Gabby and Katie were not involved in that drama. It was Brooklyn. It was Charity. It was Ariel a little bit. But it wasn't Gabby and Katie.

Ariel shut it down though. Yeah. Kat tried to suck her in. And Ariel was sort of, I was respecting how she was sort of like a steel wall like she was not engaging without being rude or like unkind because i think that is a good point where it's like brooklyn definitely got fired up yeah i also so okay what did you all make of when charity asked to speak to kat independently and then brooklyn joined because that was when i really started to be like whoa brook, like what's going on, girl?

Yeah, you're just wild. She she felt righteous and she felt right. And she felt protected by the house and the majority. Yeah. And she kind of became a bully or also protective, maybe. Like I think she was maybe like charities too sweet. She had another quote lined up from the creators of Have You Ever Considered Shutting the Fuck Up? We bring you.

Oh, my gosh. So good. I, to your earlier question, I actually think Zach is so hyper. Your question about whether he actually sent something at the witch fire, which was incredible. Also, Zach at a witch fire. Like, wow. Golden. Incredible.

But, like, I feel like he's so hyper vigilant whereilant where if it's not just, like, fun and light and we're having fun and making out, like, if you're tight at all, like, you've got to just be easy on your game and fun and kissing me. And, like, we see how jacked she was, like, how, like, screaming, like, I don't want to be dealing with this before. Hi, Zach. Yeah. So, I think he's so hypervigilant that he did feel an energy being off.

It's possible. She's going to spin out. I just know it's also possible he got tipped off. Yeah, probably. You should ask her about how she's doing. She seems a little rattled. She seems like a little rascal. I thought it was interesting, though,

rewinding when Zach was talking to Jessie. He completely gave himself away who his top three was oh yeah because when he talks about gabby katie and cat yeah and you know because it was like he went through all the women left yes so if you paid attention when he talked about those three women he described their relationship yes he's like this is this is our he would he would use we language our relationship this is our connection he would use we language, our relationship, this is our connection. And when he would talk about Brooklyn and- Ariel.

Well, Ariel, it was like TBD. Yeah. Like, she's mysterious. And he actually, you know, now we know he had a one-on-one lined up with her. Yeah. But all the other women, he talked about the women. Yeah, like Allie especially. He was like, she's a really great girl.

She's cool. She's fun. She's cool. I like her energy. There was no, like, talk about their relationship good point you know interesting kind of gave himself away that's interesting you're right i mean who do you think is gonna win do you know i don't i'm gonna say gabby even because with gabby he was just like you could tell there's a pause about i think it's gonna be katie a Gabby runner up yeah okay but the Ariel

Catherine direct comparison strong but I think a misdirect wait say that again because he compared this is before your time Ariel to like Sean Lowe's winner Catherine on the date so this is like bachelor famous oh yeah yeah yeah

like you know so that's right when he said I didn't know like Catherine existed until like week nine and then i got engaged to her type of energy that felt like the producers made him say that to make this season interesting 100 i didn't buy it i still just don't see it i don't think they had a nice date i think you know they have a good rapport she's they find each other attractive they had a really nice time i like her they don't feel like a match i really appreciated ariel's like her. They don't feel like a match. I really appreciated Ariel's like one-on-one because it was like, you know, it was normal. Like, and this is not a criticism of Charity at all. Like, I'm just so tired of this trauma dumping on this show.

Oh my God. And I think it's getting sloppier and sloppier. Like, again, whatever Charity went through in her past relationship, I'm so sorry if it was anything other than healthy yes um but like it's just it was edited to sound like she was just like i was in an emotionally abusive relationship i got cheated on and there's just no context or no other information yeah and it just kind of read as if she was saying that she was in an abusive relationship because she got cheated on and certainly cheating can be a part of an abusive relationship, but like it just seems a little sloppy

the way it's being edited and the way the contestants have this pressure to come up with their stories and we're using words like abuse. Like when Brooklyn, what a tragic story she shared the week before. I'm glad they gave that some runway and allowed her to provide some context

because and they provided a trigger warning ahead. it's just like in other episodes they're they they use the it's just like i don't know it's just no every single it just seemed out of contact and it's just like it's hard to tell gauge which one is losing yourself like what level what are we talking about here and i just think these are important conversations that if we're going to have on the show, let's give it its proper space so that we're not like, you know, because there were so many questions left unanswered with Cherry's relationship. Like, well, so is it just because you're cheating? Was there more? What kind of manipulation? It's just, I don't know.

I'll tell you what was interesting, having not been single in my adult life and starting to date and like you know life happens and everybody has large things happen and learning i had one friend who was so great that was like arden first date and i know it's different on here because there's 20 people she's like just see if you have fun like do you have fun together like do you vibe do you have a good time do you like you like hanging like see if you can have fun with this. Like, there's time to get into, now, I know it's different on The Bachelor, but like, maybe just see if you can have a good time for a date.

Well, I like, Ariel, I loved how she was just like, you know what? I've been single for a really long time. I loved it. And that fucking sucks. Yes. And I'm ready to have a boyfriend.

That was just like normal and relatable and like, I just love that energy she brought. It didn't have to be this like, hey, what's my saddest version of my story? And it's just, I hate, I'm just tired of it. She feels like an adult. She feels like a grown woman. She lives in Manhattan.

She feels like she's probably been on the apps like dating like hedge fund. Like she's seen some dates. She's been through it she's probably got like a share out in the hamptons you know she knows her worth and she's just not ready to settle and here she is on the bachelor ready to go her dignity and that in the moment talking to the producer or however you feel like that her dignity of like saying i don't normally i have a lot of words i don't i'm so tired of being alone. Yes. The humanity and the honesty and the simplicity.

Loved it. It wasn't for him. So genuine. He didn't see that. I just like really felt for her in that way. I really was, I loved the humanity of that. It was my favorite one-on-one of the season simply because it didn't have some trauma dumping.

It wasn't like, it was just an authentic, relatable, and real. Like that's a real fear. And you fear and like i'm just tired of fucking being alone i found gabby to be fairly authentic i felt like like when she the way she phrased it when she was trying on the dresses yeah i liked hers and the way she phrased it like not in a not in a way that was like i mean i don't know about her history without like look as women on earth and dealing with our bodies and pressure, like the way her simplicity of phrasing of like, you make me feel like sometimes I was nervous doing this. I've struggled with body image.

And like, I felt very seen by like the simplicity of like, there might be more there or there might not, but like, it felt very real, very human. I really was like, I liked their date. It felt like a real person.

Yeah. No, Gabby is great. She's so sweet. And yeah, that was a great line. You made me feel pretty without looking in the mirror. It was a great line. So sweet. Yeah, they're very cute.

I just I want the show. And again, this is a criticism of the show, not any of the people going on the dates. I just I hate I want the show and again and this is a criticism of the show not any of the people going Yeah, I just I hate the like I understand Like putting it in but the pressure that they put on these contestants the trauma bond so like to and it's just I don't know I know and again when when these shows are edited the way they are. I think it's I think it's almost Irresponsible to have these types of conversations that are highly edited and you get like just snippets of things and like you know we need to have longer dialogues around these serious topics and like i just don't think they should incorporate

conversations around abuse unless they're going to give it its proper its proper conversation and runway yeah like you know show that to show all the details or where Zach can have the proper amount of dialogue. He's also, Zach is just in general, is really bad at follow-up questions and empathy. Yeah. He's terrible. He's just more like, yeah, I'm sorry that you don't deserve that. Someone like Charity talked about this.

I would want to know, where are you now with this? Are you healed from this? How have you dealt with this? Yeah. How does this affect you in future relationships? How can I be a supporting partner to you in the future? Totally. None of that ever with any of these conversations.

No. And if there's any present day weakness, you're out. No, he's really, and let's get in the jest because zach is i i like him me too he seems like a nice guy i haven't met him in person he has a lot of he seems like a gentleman and yes i think he's trying really trying is really hard i think he has good intentions but he's really starting to get and he's really starting to come across like a guy who's terrible at empathy. And instead of he's, he, he's making these women feel bad for feeling.

They're shaming for sure. I mean, even like there's shaming for feeling. And even like when Brooklyn did like the fist bump, like anything that's silly. When Gabby gave him a nickname in the beginning, like, can I call you Zach?

And you're like, no, it's Zach. Like, you're like, okay. He's not goofy or fun or like yeah and all relationships are about checking in and saying hey listen like feeling a little like uneasy about this can i talk to you about this yeah and and

and zach is portraying a type of partner where he's like no i need you can't be you can't doubt us you can't at all question me and if if so then like this isn't working for me like bailey early on i thought bailey had a chance to go all the way and the second she was like hey i just need a little reassurance he's like yeah you're out you're out yeah and then jess at first i felt like she was you know here she she's first out of the limo covered in glitter sweet little beautiful baby bird. Baby bird is quaking. And he seemed to like that.

He's like, oh, I got to protect my baby bird. And then it's like, OK, this is not sexy fun time. You got it. You didn't learn how to fly on your own. Like I was optimistic, though, because it felt like on group dates he was the one pulling her. And he told her about his diagnosis. Yeah. The blue.

Yeah. Very early group date. Oh, he almost died? He said he'd never shared with anyone. Yes. So it's very confusing. Her statement when he cut her in the car, she was so right. She was like, if I'm supposed to bury you and you seem completely baffled that I would want any alone time with you? He had no sympathy.

No, it's he was so outrageous in that moment. Oh, it was. So first he was like, she sits down and she's just calmly just, you know, she doesn't. She knows that Zach is eagerly rattled. So she's trying to, like, express her doubts without letting him know that, like, you know, there's anything wrong. So she's tiptoeing around Zach and he goes, he does it like you know there's anything wrong so she's tiptoeing around zach and he goes he does it you know his head nod thing i can't he's just you know he does that thing

and and then he goes to jess when she was like well you know i'm just feeling like a little you know i guess anxious or insecure because i haven't had some like one-on-one time and he says to her hmm well that's something i i needed to know you know like oh he like lectures her yeah and it's just like he sounded like a guy who valentine's showed up or her birthday and he completely missed it yes and then she goes to her boyfriend and says yeah that that kind of bothered me. And he's like, oh, well, that's something I could. You could have fucking told me that, that you wanted a card on Valentine's Day, that

you wanted me to acknowledge your birthday. Yeah. You could have told me that. And it made her feel superficial and shallow. Because I did feel like towards the end of the conversation, because she kept having to repeat herself, being like, the one-on-one, the one-on-one. And I felt like he made her sound kind of of she didn't sound bad in that conversation but he did make her sound almost like petty or specific because he was being so obtuse about this one basic fact which is also

it is literally all about the one-on-ones zach knows this i mean he was after the next he was about to go out with ariel and he was like oh i didn't get to know her until the one-on-one. I was like, yeah, no shit. No, he literally tells Jess that it's not about the one-on-one and acts completely obtuse and oblivious. He's like, what is this about a one-on-one? What is it? A one-on-one? Like, how could you?

What do you mean a one-on-one? He had the same energy of that, of talking about how could you bring up a one-on-one that he did when the conversation about followers happened. Like, it was the same level of, how dare you just be here for a one-on-one? I feel like he acted as if Jess was being like, why did I not get the first rose at the ceremony? Like that was the level of kind of like arbitrary that I feel like he was responding to.

I agree. I felt for her, because you could see the producers, I don't know intentional or not, but she was off the rails. She was spiraling. And she was telling, the amount of times she said,

I'm the last person to get a one-on-one, it was like, it was on loop. And I understand that they're away from the friends. They're away from the internet. There's no books. There's no television. There's no phone. Like, so I can, it was,

it was already in spiral. And then to be with the coldest so cold there was no there was no compassion the coldest and like like almost like you're disgusting like you want to how dare you want to want to absolutely no empathy and then again to your all like as you all mentioned the very next day he's just like wow it's just like everything's changed with ariel after this 101 i mean it's like no fucking shit zach that's what it's all about the 101 if you don't get a 101 you don't have a chance and you're also saying this is someone who got a one-on-one very fucking early in rachel's season so of course you don't understand what it's like to be insecure and

waiting yeah thank you and and when you consider the possibility that there was, I don't know, an 80, 90% chance that Zach knew he was going to send Jess home in that conversation. Now, I don't know for sure, but knowing how that shit works, I would say 80% chance Zach knew he was going to send Jess home. And so it was a total setup. So he was almost happy to be like, well, it's for this reason. I mean, I hate using this word, but it was gaslighting. It was a total setup. So he was almost happy to be like, well, it's for this reason. I mean, I hate using this word, but it was gaslighting. It was gaslighting. I was thinking that too.

And I also, I was like, oh my God, he's totally, it's weird when you actually see it in real time and you're like, he's totally gaslighting. But he knew what she was talking about and he was making her feel fucking crazy for an absolutely normal and valid concern and then acting completely like he didn't understand. I don't,

what do you, what do you mean? One on one. I just don't. And then he literally said to her for, he goes in this conversation, she said to Jess, I have so much confidence in us.

I just don't understand. And then there we go. Yeah. Nice. Nice. Oh, he's just like, and then she made one comment and then he just goes,

Hmm, i can't um well i i lost confidence in us so he does it to all of them he just it went you don't that doesn't happen in a conversation he acted like oh one conversation should can change everything i mean one conversation can change anything if like another one yeah if you go into a conversation and all of a sudden the person just starts like calling you names and acts like a completely different person, but he's acting like

one conversation can change anything when that person just comes to you to just get a little bit of assurance and validation. At this point,

Zach knows, even if he didn't know he was going to send her home at that point, he knows that Jess is falling behind. So why doesn't he just say validate Jess and say say you know what i totally understand how you feel like this is a really hard experience and you know if i'm being honest like i definitely was really

excited about us but like for whatever reason like i just i am making stronger connections and it's just like and i'm really sorry because i know that sucks like that's all he had to say instead of just like taking some accountability that he's just it's like it's just like, and I'm really sorry because I know that sucks. Like that's all he had to say. Instead of just like taking some accountability that he's just, it's like, it's not even his fault. He's just liking other people more and that's okay. That's the name of the game. And instead of just acknowledging that he's making her feel bad for wanting some time with him and have an opportunity to build the same connection.

She's saying all the other women make and it's such a prick move to make these women feel bad for like being insecure it's an asshole move and i'm just like it's two weeks in a row he's done this i agree he's done it a few times and i feel like okay i can almost co-sign boring if you're a nice guy and i because i actually do believe he is looking for love i i think they found I do believe he wants to find a wife. If you're if you're a gentleman and you're boring, he's got nice ladies. I like the setup.

I'll go. I'll get on your ride. But he's proved to be shaming and a cold dick. Yeah. And that's where you lose me. I have a theory. He's getting drunk with bachelor power. Thank you. He also gets triggered when he sees whenever there's any kind of reference to like the gamesmanship of the structure i think he gets really triggered because he feels like rachel played him like he feels like

rachel just wanted to have her like good boy front runner guy for the whole half the season who she would just discard after fantasy suites and i think he gets really like worked up when he feels like someone is playing the game and like that's why with Jess he's like one-on-one stuff with Greer he's like it's not a sales talk like whenever he feels like someone is doing anything other than authenticity I think he reacts really poorly. She should have picked Avon.

I know. Is that his name Avon? Yeah. He was so cute and sweet. He was so hot so charming. Great energy. She should have picked Davin. And I think the reason that they had such like a butting head is because Jess was coming into that conversation when she was saying one-on-one, she meant quality time reassurance. That's right. And when he hears one-on-one, it's like the terms of the game.

And it's talking about production and it's followers and it's clout and it's whatever. And like she's coming at it from a relationship wanting time. And he's like, oh, my God. But she's she's watched the show before and she knows it's called a one on one. I mean, like, calculate it might be a reason. But like, come on, Zach. It is this is a TV show. Right.

You know what I'm saying? Like, is Zach incapable of acknowledging that he can, you know, take it seriously and look for love. I hate the over-righteousness as if Zach is going to delete Instagram and never make a dollar. You know what I'm saying? Zach's having the energy as The Bachelor as if Zach should delete all social media. And he should never monetize or capitalize on this wonderful opportunity he's been gifted, which I don't think he should. But he's acting as if that's the only way to go about it. And then he's shaming everyone else

for even the possibility that there are other advantages of being on the show other than the greatness of meeting Zach. It also feels like if you end up with him, it does feel like he has a chemical reaction to any weakness at all. And that you'd have to walk on eggshells. Well, that's like with this. It's what an opportunity in a relationship in a context where you're so limited, like the amount of time you get with people, the exposure to real world issues is so, so, so limited.

is so, so, so limited. To have a disconnect that you could try to operate and navigate as a couple and overcome is a really big opportunity in terms of building the practical skills that would actually give you a meaningful relationship. And so far what Zach has shown is whenever there's the slightest bit of disconnect or incongruence, it's a fireable offense for him.

Slightly defending Zach? It's not even a defense. It's an explanation because he's not doing this with the Gabbys and the Katys and the cats of the world. I'd be willing to bet there will be some resistance. And he I'm guessing we'll see Zach try to work through that a little bit with the women he's actually having connections with. Yeah.

I just hate knowing knowing how this all works and knowing that he just doesn't have these connections with the Jess's. Yeah. You know, and the Brooklands or, you you know basically anyone who's under this top three like yeah he just doesn't have that strong connections he has rapport he has familiarity but then it's kind of the chicken and the egg situation the reason that they're bringing their insecurities to him is because they don't have those but what I'm saying is Zach is instead of of just like empathizing with him and trying to make them not feel shitty for not building a connection with them,

his way of breaking up with all these women is to make him feel like they did something wrong. He slaps them on the wrist and sends them all shaking. They all go home wondering what happened or what they could have done differently or how they fucked up, as opposed to just saying, hey, listen, it just didn't work out.

And it's as much as me as it is you. And I wish he could have fallen on all these swords and make it seem like he did it with greer he last week he did it with he did it with bailey he did it with uh what was the gal what was her name anastasia he did it with anastasia it's ironic because they're coming to him for validation and he can't even validate and then he. And then he's also like, you're disgusting. Like, get out. How dare you? How dare you?

It's their problem that they're not making a connection with Zach, even though he's the bachelor. And in theory, he gets to choose who he gets to spend time with. I just got distracted by your nice couch. So that feels good. What is this? Chenille? Velvet?

What are we working with here? It's comfortable. It's a nice performance fabric. This is nice. This is nice. Thank you. I like it. I like it.

I'm feeling good. Do we want to talk at all about like the witch date in Estonia? Oh my God. And just like, and also how devastating the candle moment was with Jess. Oh my gosh. It's almost like. She died. Yeah.

She died. Yeah. It's almost like the ghost of Elon Gale. Like a great producer just came up and was like the ghost of Elon Gale. A great producer just came up and was like, just the best producer that ever... He was the best. I miss him as a producer.

You just picture somebody just blowing it out from afar. And the way the witch went, oops. And also the showing up of the nudist. In 2023, it feels like a 2008 move of like it's cool if we send nude people and you haven't said yes in the hot tub it felt weird it felt like you can't do that anymore can you do that this sauna was one thing the making out in the hot tub

together was another also when they said you're sharing a body of water and there's only so much water like it's like i don't want to get your dirty dick out of here. And then they also said it's going to be nudist and she was like, I'll be in a bathing suit. I was like, yes, honey. Because back in the day, people were like, okay, I guess they have to be nude. So at least she had the wherewithal to be like, yeah, I'm not doing that.

And then like, well, guess what? We're sending these nude villagers in. Yeah, that was bizarre. We felt really dated. I did think Ariel's comment that like the older someone is the more likely they are to be naked i was like she understands the human condition that's hilarious that's why she's a great she's she's cool great hey yeah do we think ariel has secured a top four spot okay let's see you do wait who else so over charity over brooklyn maybe cat oh So over Charity? Over Brooklyn? I think maybe Cat. Oh, for sure over Brooklyn.

For sure over Brooklyn. I could see a world where Cat doesn't make top four now. Yeah, because she's going to spin out because they got under her skin and she's going to show weakness and he's going to cut her. Yeah. I mean, I think I ended up being right about Cat.

I hate how it went down because I do think, again, knowing how this all works I think she did a normal thing and whatever and now it's just been a snowball you're right I see what you're saying she's going but I do think because of the

look the drama and the you know the incubation everybody's in the all the hands in the head all the ladies getting at it. I think she's going to, I think Brooklyn has gotten under her skin and she's not going to be able to keep it together enough

in a way that's heated, smooth sailing. I think whether we see it or not, it's going to be Katie that gets cat eliminated. Oh, hot. Good hot take. Why? Because I just think she will just i don't even

know if we'll see it love it but i think hot he really likes cat i mean he's been she's sexy like very emotive and very like she's fox and i just think he really trusts and respects katie and gabby at this point and i think if if like maybe they're talking and Katie, all she has to do is like, well, I don't know. I just, I wouldn't have done that kind of thing.

Yeah. Just all, I think that's all she will have. Like, I think if she sees Katie kind of wobbling, she'll just be there to like. Yeah.

Cat. If cat's wobbling. Yeah. If cat's wobbling, kind of like. Push her, dump her off of the wall. Yeah.

She'll just like give that last minute push. Like one more straw. Yeah. Just one more. One more straw. I'm going to text you when it happens when I She'll just like give that last minute push. Like one more straw. Just one more straw. I'm going to text you when it happens when I'm watching. I'm going to text you. I feel like, I don't know if we'll see it

or if this was all behind the scenes. I love it. I like that. I can picture Katie kind of knowing her competition. Look, they're both nurses. They're Kat and Katie. By the way, we- Yeah, one's got to go.

They're both blondes. By the way, we... Yeah, one's got to go. They're both blondes. By the way, she also became Kat after our first amazing Kat lab. After our brilliant, beautiful... Justice or Kat? Give us Justice

for Christina or Justice for Holland. By the way, Justice or Kat, like, give me the... Give me, like, three more weeks of the eyes. Put her on Paradise.

Put her with Justin on Paradise to give us the reactions. She and Justin, just like... Like, the two old men on Muppets. I just want to watch their eyes. A peanut on Paradise. Put her with Justin on Paradise to give us the reactions. She and Justin, just like the two old men on Muppets. A peanut gallery. Cat's facial expressions. Give her a permanent position

in Bachelor Nation. Incredible. She's incredible. Just like a tiny screen in the bottom corner like they do for the live shows. The cat cam. Yeah, it's the cat cam. She was incredible. So then you can't become cat after we had the best cat of all time. Now you're Cat, and so is Cat and Katie. I don't know.

Both nurses. Katie's got to win. Katie's going to win. I hope Gabby wins, but Katie's going to win. Interesting. Gabby for Bachelorette? I think Gabby. No, she won't be Bachelorette.

Oh, I think she could be Bachelorette. She's got great energy. Oh, she's great. Bachelorette. Oh, I think she could be Bachelorette. She's got great energy. Oh, she's great. She's fun. She's great. She's lovely. Brooklyn, Gabby. I think Katie's too.

What about Charity? But do they want another, do they want like an Emily Maynard season? Because if they, the question is like, do they want, are they testing the waters with this like vintage Bachelor vibes?

Are we going to get another like sweetheart nurse who's just like a very pure that's not a that's not a comp she was a race car driver's widowed wife with a kid like and she a very kind blonde nurse also yeah I just know

no offense to Katie I just don't think that's a comp okay sure I want to say a couple weeks ago, there was an ad. First of all, when are they going to give a senior bachelor? How dare you? Literally. Stop.

Stop it. Either do it or don't. We all are here for it. Give it to me. A what bachelor? Senior bachelor. Senior. Oh, yeah, yeah.

Stop advertising for it. Like, just give it to me or not. But a couple weeks ago, they had an ad that was like, are you a single parent? I was like, are you a single parent? I was like, are they going to give us Mandrell? But then she became too much of a villain. But I was like, give me a Mandrell season. Are you a single parent?

There was an ad. Are you a single parent? Week one, I thought she was a bachelorette for sure. Yeah. She's great TV. Yeah. She's really popping off on social media, though, in terms of a lot of TikTok content, which is the reason I'm thinking maybe no. What flavor?

What flavor? Like it's just like whether it's Bachelor content or humorous content, like it's just a lot of stuff is being pushed out on TikTok. And I'm like, if you're a Bachelorette, I don't think you're doing that. Also, one of the things she posted was it was a clip and it showed her on her like on the group date and then they did a talking head from the one-on-one of her saying she wanted the rose and then it cut back to the group date and she made this tiktok being like love that they showed the dress i was wearing on the one-on-one like she's calling out the edit too to your point so not only is she like posting a lot about it she's a wild card yeah she's a wild card uh yeah she went home too early to be the

bachelorette i think think Brooklyn, Gabby. Charity? I don't see it. I hope Charity goes on Paradise and gets wifed very early and then gets engaged. What about Greer? Greer, we don't... I mean, she's not going to be bachelorette, but she doesn't stand a chance of even making it to Final Four.

She's gone next week. I think she's going to get eliminated before I think. Yeah, because she has Q4 sales. Maybe Zach takes her out of... You can't have a Q4 sales and go to hometowns it's disgusting she's going home

next week it's disgusting too much on your plate you can't possibly do it all you can't say the word I have my own goals and make it

it's hometowns not worktowns Q4 exactly do we have two weeks before hometowns she brings him to her office and he's like

no I hope two weeks because it would be very intense to bring down to go two weeks because it would be very intense to bring down to go from seven to four would be really i think that's what's gonna happen career is gonna go home next week yeah maybe one other person right i i'm gonna guess career and then the week before hometowns you'll have to go home to eliminate the final four and then that will be the big question is it going to be brook, Ariel, or Charity? Or Kat, I guess.

Yeah. Because I only feel super confident about Katie and Gabby now. Yeah. Katie and Gabby now. I feel like it's going to be Katie, Gabby, Charity. And Ariel? And Ariel. Yeah.

Could be. Yeah. And Kat goes home the week before. Kat goes home. We're going to have one more week with her. So we're going to have two more weeks. We're going to have she, Brooklyn will be next week then cat and greer greer's gone too if you're a producer he are he really likes cat right so does greer go home on a one-on-one maybe yeah oh yeah

good call yeah it's a zoom it's a one literally gets sprung out of quarantine yeah you're right she does he's pissed that he has to keep keeping her because she's now one-on-one. It's sprung out of quarantine. Yeah, you're right. She does. He's pissed that he has to keep keeping her because he can't cut her. She got COVID. Yeah, he's got to keep her that extra week. If you're a producer, don't you want Kat to make it to...

Yes. But he keeps cutting the... He keeps cutting the... You want them... I want to have... What if we have a Kat and a Brooklyn two-on-one? Oh, yes!

Maybe. I was also thinking that. That's what it is because we don't have any enemies right now. Because we have Kat cat and a Brooklyn two-on-one? Oh, yes! I was also thinking that. That's what it is, because we don't have any enemies right now. That'd be great. They should do that next week. Because Cat's value is with Brooklyn for drama. Oh, you're absolutely right. It's a two-on-one, and he's going to have to pick Brooklyn.

Epic. Epic. That would be so mad. Only to send her home the next week. I know. I know. I know. You know what?

But he might pick Cat, because he doesn't want to pick Brooklyn. Do we? I think we covered it all. Yeah. I mean, we had the nudists. We had the witch. Zach's an asshole. Zach sucks.

He really. Yeah. Also, I just wrote down the quote of like what he said to Gabby where he was like, I miss you a lot. I hope you know that you're one of my strongest connections and I feel so good about you and I don't want you to worry. Yeah. Like I get butterflies.

It worries me that she announced that she doesn't like to kiss. You don't want to marry somebody that doesn't want to kiss you. But he goes, but I liked what he was like. I know you're not a, you're a cuddler, not a kisser, but I want to kiss you. I hope she can open up to kissing. Yeah. Yeah. I hope it's both.

I also just want to say just fully circling back to the trauma bonding. And this is what this is another thing I learned on a date. This is my this is my final thought on because as a person who's basically like I'm a baby bird of dating my friend and I'm going to liken this to tennis. I'm not good at tennis. And my friend is really good. And I would insult myself on the court. And she was like, don't say your backhand's bad because you're giving other people's arrows to shoot you with. Then we don't trust you and we don't we then

we think your backhand's bad. So just play like you're a champion. When he went on a date with Allie. Yeah. So he's like you're a champion you're becoming a champion. You're where you're at. You don't need to tell people your flaws. When he went on a date with Allie and it was going so well and he was like you seem like you have it so together and she said I feel oh I'm glad I fooled you.

Don't give other people arrows to shoot you with. Like you can tell your friends, you can later on get to know somebody, but like, don't talk somebody out of you. In general, we all get scared. We all have things about ourselves that we feel insecure about. We all know, like we're putting our best foot forward and it's not to mean that you're faking it, but people are a whole spectrum of things. And like,

to me, like I was learning to like, not speak against myself, like not giving other people like arrows to shoot me with, that you're brave enough for showing up and that like your vulnerabilities can come out later. But like the essence of who you are is like lovable and enough. You don't need to tell everybody all this stuff that's weak about you.

Cause I think it's like wanting to get ahead of it, being like, I'm self aware. See, I see I'm protecting myself because like whatever you could negative thing you's weak about you. Because I think it's like wanting to get ahead of it, being like, I'm self-aware. See, I'm protecting myself because whatever negative thing you could say about me, I know about it, don't worry. Yeah, and you could see him literally in the moment go, oh, when she was like, oh, I'm glad I fooled you.

I'm a perfectionist. But when he's like, oh, like, and I feel like I was sort of doing that on some dates and my friend was like, don't do that. Like, don't, like, don't do that. Like, don't do that. It's like Zach's looking for a finished product where he doesn't want to put in any work to help each other advance the relationship or each other.

It's just like. I mean, again, you can have weakness, but like, don't lead with it. Don't tell. No, yeah. Especially with Zach. Become a champion. You're becoming a champion.

That was a great. Yeah yeah that was my friend it was it was she was like she actually told me that on like new year's eve last year and she was like i'm going to challenge you to not speak against yourself like because i've been playing a lot she she grew up really good and i was never like picked in gym class and but i'm doing better you know and she was like just try i'm going to challenge you to not speak against yourself on the court this year and I didn't and I felt like I wanted to. Is that carrying over into your daily life? I feel like yeah I feel like

sometimes I get nervous doing stand up sometimes and it's like no like you're there you've been doing comedy for years like it's okay to be nervous you don't need to tell people right before the show that you're nervous like show up like they booked you go be a champion like you know you can call your friend afterwards on the way home or on the way there yeah like I think in dating in all areas or like being with somebody new or the first time my boyfriend came

to stay with me like when they're seeing you on a Tuesday and it's not a Friday night it's like it's okay to be nervous when you're like taking healthy risks and it's out of your comfort zone but like figuring out ways to sort of self-soothe along the way and be like, this is where like the magic happens. It's okay to be uncomfortable. It doesn't mean it's bad.

That's great. Words to live by. Thanks guys. I was going to say the only thing you might want to mention is the end teaser because he specifically states that there's no sex

and then we get more context about the act of love not lust so we know it's specifically about sex because I had a detail so they're kind of yeah

they are setting up the end Zach specifically says he's not going to have sex in the fantasy suite do you think that's because of Clayton being like I'm sure

I'm sure that played a role yeah because it was the fucking that was the problem yeah Clayton but the big question is does he follow through with that that was because it feels like fucking that was the problem. Yeah. But the big question is, is he follow through with that?

That was because it feels like he doesn't. They suggest that. They suggest that he they've edited it such that he is like, wait a minute. Whoops. I had sex. I'm guessing he follows through. But if not, I'm guessing he follows through because if he didn't follow through, you know, other seasons I'll hear from producers like the Clayton.

Yeah. You know, like before the season started they're like the ending is fucking nuts you're the echo chamber in Iceland of like the crying of like he's in love with all three of them the weeping on the stairs and the echo hall with like the hurricane

outside yeah so like I'll hear rumblings. And this year, I think they all liked the season, but I haven't like heard the rumors of like the ending is unhinged. You know, so like if Zach were to state that he's not gonna have sex with any of the women only to have sex and it become a thing, I would think that would be more dramatic and i

think i think they're just trying to give us something i think they're just trying do you think after like once the winner has been chosen they have a very detailed conversation about like did you do hand stuff did the body suit become uncomfortable in the fantasy suite so to speak like do you think they like most what we what percentage of couples would you say like need to clarify exactly what if any physical thing? God, that'd be so hard. I think half of them lie. Really? Yeah, I think half of them lie.

Well, I mean, to their newly fiances about what they did. Yeah, I don't know. I remember like somebody was saying my podcast is like, now you're going to go into like a fuck contest against your two best friends. Yeah. Like you're going into, now you have to go like your two friends. You're all going into the same contest.

But sometimes. Yeah, like the sex Olympics. Literally. Yes. I guess your two best friends. But sometimes it's not about, it's not the fuck Olympics. Usually the lead knows who they're going to pick.

And if they have sex with more than one person, it's more about like the last person you want to have sex with before you never get to have sex with anyone else. Oh my God. I don't know that I can see. It's more that energy rather than, all right, the final stage of who I'm going to decide to pick is to see why I like having sex with more.

It's not that. It's more, well, I know I'm going to get engaged. No one's going to get, when you're that far in, you're realistic that who knows if it's going to work out. But you certainly hope that it works out. And you're like, well, this is it. And I'm literally being told that I could do this. So this is my last last it's like your

bachelor party kind of like oh you know and that's it's more that energy then there's ramifications because the lady's like what did you do final question has how long has it been since we've had a bachelor with a regular three of like which shoes are getting out of the limo first like when was the last time we had a regular ending of like i wasn't sure with michelle i was just thinking brandon i was like oh there's something there was he the last one is that though because i can't because i feel like there's been so many that it falls off the rails that like we don't have the actual regular and michelle and brandon like sobbing oh yeah with matt james that's. But it already kind of had like the scandal.

Yeah that was. So then we had there was a scandal then we had there hasn't there's been a lot that like Ari's was derailed Colton jumped the fence. Clayton was a mess. The only one I can think of because Katie's it was just like down to

Greg went home. Greg self eliminated. Justin somehow made it to the top three and was kind of like, what did I get here? Like it's been a minute. We haven't had that many. Traditional. Who was Tayshia's? Because I know Ivan got eliminated third. Oh yeah.

It was Ivan, Zach and. Ben. Who's Ben? Oh yeah, Ben. There was a body. He was a bodybuilder war veteran. That he brought the top chef chef their family week. Yeah.

He brought that Top Chef chef. Yeah, there really hasn't been kind of a follow the beats of the traditional show to... What shoes are getting out of the limo first? Yeah. I miss it. I think you'll have that this season. I hope so, because I love that. And it's going to be heartbreaking to see that it's either Gabby or Katie's shoes getting

out of that limo first. Yeah, like which crystal sandal is getting out. Yeah. I hope. I hope it's a, I need one reset of like, that's the one thing. If at least, if nothing else, if this guy can give me a shoes out of the limo exit. Yeah. Ending.

I'll take it. I need it. I miss it. All right, who's it going to be? Katie. Gabby. Gabby. Gabby, Gabby, Katie.

I'm going to go. I hope itby, Katie. I'm going to go. I hope it's Gabby. I'm going to go Katie. Katie's feeling very confident, you can tell. She looked very sexy and womanly. When holding that candle, she was like, no one else is here but me and you. She's holding his gaze. She's very kind of womanly, wifey.

No, she's great. She's wifey. She's wifey. She's like pretty wife nurse. Yeah. They would make beautiful great. She's wifey. She's wifey. She's like pretty wife nurse. Yeah. They would make beautiful babies. She's like mother of his children. Yeah.

But Gabby's just adorable. Yeah. I hope they are watching this season and giving him notes on how to be not a dick. The fact that he likes them is promising because they are pretty great so maybe they are because they seem like they could be gals that be like hey that wasn't very nice yeah i don't know that unfortunately he's just he's a little drunk with bachelor power

oh yeah yeah it's probably like an age thing also of like he's really young he's really young he's really young i don't i don't like that as an excuse. Thank you. He's 26 years old. Get it together. That's an adult man. You're right. It's not like he's going to be that much better at 36. He'll probably just be more hardened to mansplaining.

Like, whoa, your feelings. Uh-uh, get out. Yeah, he's a 26-year-old man. Can we stop? I mean, I know it's like in the grand scheme of things. Like, you know, if Zach gets his heart broken and I'm gonna be like hey man you're young you have a lot of life ahead of you but like that's not an excuse to like be shitty to people and like listen I'm sure Zach's a great guy and he'll learn and this is not the end of the world but like he he is two weeks in a row shown a type of behavior

that I think is I think is sadly prominent in a lot of men dating out there and this type of behavior to like you know the energy we we see in dating where it's just you're not showing empathy and you are yeah kind of being a dick real quickly because of whatever that's going on in you and you're projecting your frustration onto people who don't deserve that type of energy and i don't care how old he is like he's old enough not to do that that's nice in 15 years his teenage daughter is gonna bring him something he's gonna be like well

let me walk you out yeah exactly so I know I keep looking at your shoes in the monitor they're so cute I might get them for my boyfriend for his birthday they're so cute they were cheap too even better I got them for $35 what? wow so cute really nice Arden thanks so much for coming oh my god thank you so much They were cheap too. Even better. I got them for $35. What? Wow. So cute.

Really nice. Arden, thanks so much for coming. Oh my God, thank you so much for having me. This was so much fun. Please come back in soon. I would love to come back. Oh, anytime. Do you want to come play with us?

Yeah, I'd love to. Please let my audience know all the great things you're doing. Thank you so much. I have a few fun things coming up that are secret, but they'll be coming up, they'll be announced soon,

which are very exciting. But in the meantime, I have a very silly comedic podcast about the Bachelor franchise called Lily except this rose

it's on iHeart tomorrow's guest we come out on Wednesdays tomorrow's guest will be Jim Jeffries who's friend of show friend of show

and Wells Wells and Jim are gonna be there tomorrow last week we had Lance Bass who's have you had Lance on? yeah he's so funny and then we're doing some I have two I have a weekend of live shows Wells and Jim are going to be there tomorrow. Last week we had Lance Bass. Have you had Lance on? Yeah.

He's so funny. And then we're doing some, I have two, I have a weekend of live shows in New York. I'm going to be doing stand up at Union Hall in Brooklyn at April 14th. And then I'm doing my live podcast at the Bell House on April 15th. I think with Lance and then Real Housewives of New Jersey, Margaret and Joe, who are rookies this season. And yeah, all sorts of fun things. But you can find me on Instagram. It looks like Myron Arden, A-R-D-E-N-M-Y-R-I-N. And all sorts of fun things coming up.

Amazing. Well, check out all of Arden's amazing things. Wait, I have two movies coming out. I forgot. Please. In March. I have one with Kevin Bacon called Space Oddity. And that's in March, so next month. And then I have another one called A Snowy Space Oddity and that's in March

so next month and then I have another one called A Snowy Day in Brooklyn with Nicole Ari Parker and they're both coming out in March great

where can people find that I think A Snowy Day in Oakland is going to be in theaters and then I don't know where Space Oddity is

but I know they're both coming out in March well be sure to look out for those check out all of Arden's great stuff Don't forget we have Lala Kent on Thursday

For Going Deeper Nice Better Date Than Never Also on Thursday 9pm Eastern Be sure to check that out Go back and check out Our update show

That dropped last Friday Or ask Nick That dropped on Monday Subscribe Tell your friends Rate rate, review. Look at you work so hard. Look at all your stuff. We're working hard.

You got a whole empire. Trying to pay for these shoes. And this freaking couch. Yeah, I gotta try to pay for the couch. It's hot. Thanks for listening, guys. Bye.