The Viall Files - E578 Going Deeper - Vanderpump Finale, Prenups, Met Gala and Ronnie Woo

Episode Date: May 4, 2023

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Going Deeper Edition! At the beginning of the episode, we are joined by our Pop Culture Correspondent Natalie Joy to discuss recent Vanderpump drama, hear about wedding planning and prenups, along with our favorite and least favorite Met Gala moments. Then, we are joined by celebrity chef Ronnie Woo to talk about career changes, celebrity horror stories, and why he wouldn’t go on a date with a vegetarian. Finally, we have a Texting Office Hours caller who isn’t sure how to interpret her crush’s interest in her, giving Ronnie the opportunity to talk about playing games in dating and how to stand up for what you deserve.  “She’ll eat your sauce… literally.”  Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] be a part of our Monday episodes. Join us for our new LIVE show on Thursdays at 9PM ET/6PM PT on Amp, available in the Apple app store. Android User? Listen here: https://www.onamp.com/  To Order Nick’s Book Go To: http://www.viallfiles.com  If you would like to get some texting advice on Office Hours send an email to [e-mail] with “Texting Office Hours” in the subject line! To advertise on the show, contact [e-mail] or visit https://www.advertisecast.com/TheViallFiles  THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Aura - For a limited time, Aura is offering our listeners a 14 day trial plus a check of your data to see if your personal information has been leaked online, all for FREE when you visit https://www.aura.com/VIALL Drizly - Drizly is the #1 app for alcohol delivery. Download the Drizly app or go to https://www.Drizly.com Wondery - Follow Even the Rich wherever you get your podcasts. You can listen ad-free on Amazon Music or Wondery app. Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @ronniecwoo @nnataliejjoy @alison.vandam @liffordthebigreddog @dereklanerussell

what's going on everybody welcome back to another exciting episode of the vile files going deeper edition i'm your host nick joined by the household of ali amanda and derrick and the return of our special pop culture correspondent the one the only natalie joy is with us again do you ever switch up do you ever go amanda ali and derrick or derrick Amanda. I used to, before we do, like before the household was officially crowned or coined. Yeah. And then now it's just Allie and Amanda and Derek. Because we're always referred to as Nick and Natalie.

It's never Natalie and Nick. Would you like Natalie and Nick? Maybe every once in a while. A beautiful ring to Nick and Nat. That's how I think of you both in my head as I'm like Nick and Nat. Nick and Nat does a little better. Yeah, it's like a one word. Nat and Nick is a little bit.

Yeah. Anyways, it's nice to have you here. Oh my God, I'm so blessed to be here. I just enjoy talking to you. So I figured we'd just do it on the show. Absolutely. You happen to be one of the most funniest, is it the most funniest? Funniest. One of the funniest people be one of the most funniest, is it the most funniest?

Funniest. One of the funniest people. One of the funniest people I know. One? Or the? Do you want a shot at the title?

Do you want a shot at the title? Anyway, we have a lot to get into. We have an exciting episode for you. The one, the only,

Ronnie Woo, celebrity chef is with us. Who does he cook for? Gwyneth Paltrow Jessica Elbow a lot of a lot of celebrities he shares all the tea about what it's like to cook with Hollywood's elite yeah yeah he also talks

about how you can spice up your own like if you're dating he gives you some tips and tricks for like ordering off the menu what to cook people like really takes you through all the ways that food plays a role in your life and it's very exciting. But before we do, obviously, there's so much going on in the pop culture world. We have the the Vanderpump trailer just came.

The season finale trailer. Should we just play it for everyone in the room to just watch quickly? Eyes on the screen. Is Raquel laughing? Yes. Oh, shit. I have chills. I have chills.

Oh, my God. It looks like it's going to be a doozy, and it looks like the season finale is essentially post-revelation of the scandal. Which is why they would have been freaking filming in our apartment building because clearly Raquel's laughing to Sandoval. That's crazy.

Because he came over to our apartment. Yeah. It's so crazy that you live in the same building as Raquel. Same floor. Out of all the people, the one who has the big scandal. And she hasn't been there in how long? It has been buttoned up. There's tape on the door

no like a crime scene no welcome matt gone i've not seen her anywhere matt is gone like there's nothing in front of her door she's like i'm not even gonna welcome no welcome here i can see her i can see her patio and there's sometimes like she'll hang like towels or something over the back bars and there's been nothing. She like dries her. She air dries her towels. Maybe like a hand towel here or there. Not like fluffy towels. Do you guys have any unit laundry in your place?

Yeah. Now I do. Because I live in like a bigger house. Before I did not. I was actually just asking Allie for Raquel purposes. Good to know. Copy. I was like, oh yeah, let me talk to you about my laundry history.

I'm so glad you hasn't been dying. My first apartment in. So Raquel has in unit. She does. Any other. Oh, and so what's it? Tom has been hanging out with this new person. Billy.

Is it Billy? Who's Billy Lee? Billy Lee seems to be a mutual friend of Tom and Ariana, who this is the second time she and Tom have been seen together post-Scandival. And she is, her take on the whole thing is Tom and Ariana are my family. They have been there for me over the years and I wouldn't be where I am today without them. So how do you take Tom's side? Didn't Ariana unfollow her? It saddens me that people are so fixated on picking a side.

Both are human and both are hurting in their own ways. And yeah, after she hung out with Tom Sandoval the first time, Ariana unfollowed her. Interesting. And who is she? Who is Billie Lee? She was on the show for season six and seven, I believe. She was. As a guest. So she didn't work at

Sir or Pump. Like maybe Christina Kelly vibes? She's a writer, producer, comedian, actress, and a vegan. Oh my gosh. Thank God we knew that. Is that in her like bio? Yes. Yep. Yes. Yep. Yes. And then in all caps, why are you so sensitive?

Published by I think that's the title of something she published. Yeah, it seems as though she has a book in the works. That would be a weird thing to scream at people. Your bio. Why are you so sensitive? So she knows them, but she's been seen hanging out with Tom Sandoval a lot. Yes. I made a joke to Amanda because there's some paparazzi photos of them moving large things

in and out of cars. And I said, well, now that Ariana can't help him with the moving trucks, he's got to find someone else to do his manual labor. You can't accuse her of not being a real friend because you're going to one, help a person move and two, it's Tom fucking Sandoval

right now. Like that's a huge physical labor, emotional labor for that man. Do you think, not to be the cynic, I'll be the cynic,

do you think she's doing it for the clout? When was the last time she hung out with Tom Sandoval or Ariana? I don't know because she knows she's getting popped.

She's also, it looks like from her Instagram potentially starting a comedy career. Do you want to get what? Are you trying to get popped or are you trying to get along? Yeah.

I don't want to get popped. That's a Lala Ariana quote from a long time ago. If you don't remember, you should refresh your memory. Yeah. I don't know. It looks like she's starting

a comedy career or in the midst of a comedy career. So this could be good for her. Yeah, I don't know. It looks like she's starting a comedy career or in the midst of a comedy career. So this could be good for her. Yeah. If her name is in lights. It's funny because it's like it's not just the laugh factory

sign on her Instagram that tells me that it's the fact she's selling vibrators. Nothing says I'm a female comedian these days like slinging vibrators on Instagram.

Like I feel like that is a certain rung of the ladder. I slung a vibrator on Instagram. Yeah. Congratulations. You're officially a a certain rung of the ladder. I slung a vibrator on Instagram. Yeah. Congratulations. You're officially a comedian. Female comedian of the year.

And this is no shade. I think it's wonderful. I support sex toys and pleasure. It's awesome that people are like, creating a wave. But the trailer looks absolutely bonkers. Oh, my God. It's a screaming match. Yeah.

Ariana, when she yells, she becomes the most powerful person in the world. Like when she yelled at James. James. James. Yes. I don't like when he did it. She really goes from start to finish. I don't like when you do it.

It's, yeah, it gives, it like rocks your soul. It's a bit fearful. It's terrifying. She's powerful. Wait, what's your best Ariana yell face? Oh my gosh. She really goes for it. Yeah.

I love that she like gets, she's like very, like she will get up out of her seat. Have you ever done that to anyone? Have you ever gotten that rageful? Yeah. When I was like a bartender, I would like scream at people because I just felt like I had the authority to

kick anyone out who is mean to me. Okay. Absolutely. And then finally my boss was like, Natalie, you can't kick people out just because they're rude. Well,

does who? That's a rude thing to say. You gotta go. You're done. You're done. You're done. Yeah, get out. At what point do we let this go?

Is it at the reunion? When the reunion's done airing, do we move on? You know, in terms of making fun of Tom Sandoval? I feel like it just depends on what Tom Sandoval continues to do. Right?

Like, if he wants to finally hang his head low and, like, accept response. I don't know what happens at the reunion, but if he, like, accepts responsibility and then he just doesn't do any more stupid shit, then maybe. But I just feel like that's not going to happen. And he's just gonna continue to like talk to news outlets and be stupid and we're gonna have to

talk about it that's the thing it's kind of a fine line because you know people can make mistakes as we were singing earlier yeah everybody makes mistakes

and everybody has those days and everybody knows what what I'm talking about everybody gets that way yeah don't please continue sometimes I'm in a jam yeah I that way. Don't please continue. Sometimes I'm in a jam.

Yeah. Okay. It might be crazy. Get an idea of it anyway. Sorry, that was like my indie voice. She's an indie singer. Yeah, I mean, at some point we have to let Tom Sandoval move on, so to speak. But you make a great point.

He's a guy who's complaining about other people taking advantage of this story, and yet he's wearing name tags at Coachella. Yeah, and going on tour. I think if the man just lays low, I think we'll lose interest. Take a break from your career, first of all. Career, sorry. It seems like also Katie has something strong to say. First of all. Career. Sorry. Career.

It seems like also Katie has something strong to say about all of this. Raquel. Boy, boy does she. And so some context for this. I thought she was about to like call in,

you know, and like have her video screen. Oh my God. Could you imagine? You know how like, you know how Alan Jackson did that for John Party? Yeah.

Made me cry. For context, May, Mental Health Awareness Month. And Katie wrote, how like you know how alan jackson did that for john party yeah maybe cry for context may mental health awareness month and katie wrote well commented being so morally bankrupt to the point you cause this kind of chaos you better be equipped to deal with the backlash and if you're not get help you need but don't ask for sympathies in the process that's all mental health may isn't reserved for those who seek and destroy period Period. Ended it with a period. Yeah, it's just one of those things where obviously mental health is super important.

I think it's up to us. No one's going to protect our mental health better than we protect our mental health. I think that's important. And yeah, it is frustrating when you see people weaponize those types of words. It's frustrating when you see people weaponize those types of words. It's like, does, and Raquel, listen, Raquel, she has the right to get herself healthy and right. And I hope she learns from this. But yeah, it comes across when you have mental health awareness month, it comes across as incredibly performative when Raquel is like, Raquel, Raquel, is, you know, is kind of using this month

on her platform to, you know, garner sympathy. Can you tell me what Raquel posted? Because I'm not... Well, I think Katie's comment is from...

Also, Raquel Levis claims IG was hacked. Oh, my God. Interesting. Oh, that's right. Yeah, where is... Yeah. Yeah, her rep claimed

that her team has taken over the account after it was hacked. With the help of Instagram, it has been reset and is now managed by Raquel's team for the next post focus on raising awareness for mental health organization advocates and removing the stigma surrounding treatment. She's in a full program right now. Yeah. That's been confirmed. Well, Tom told that to TMZ when they were asking about their various travels and the rumors that she had stopped by Miraval. He said, Raquel is in a mental health facility. I went to a resort. So that was when he kind of clarified two separate things. He was on more of like an emotional vacay. She is actually in a structured program.

Good for her. Which I do think. According to Tom. Yeah, it's definitely something people might be. Take that with what you will. From T. Sandy. She could be in his bedroom.

Oh my God. I'm putting her through a program. She's keeping her hostage. She's like, I will keep her safe. And he's just got a bunch of lava lamps and candles. And that like star.

The constellations on the season. She's getting her mentals right. No, but in all seriousness, I hope that she is taking care of her mental health. And she has a right to grow from this if she is willing, you know? Yeah. And Katie and Ariana don't have to support her journey either but i think it is definitely about the work that she chooses to put in yes it can't just be behind i mean i guess she can do whatever she wants but i hope she learns a lot about herself through this

and she gets the help that she needs and she comes out stronger than she ever was and she's motivated to continue working on herself. I'm rooting for her. I'm rooting for her well-being and I'm rooting for her to use this situation as a platform for change for herself. I think there's more hope for Rakul than there is for Tom. Absolutely. Matt Gala. Oh my god. What are your highlights of the night? Olivia Wilde

going, dressing as the same as... We had matching outfits. Yes. One was black, one was white. A stylist is definitely getting fired. Yes. Oh no. Don't designers... Wouldn't a designer know if someone was wearing their piece at the Met Gala? That's what I was wondering.

How does that happen? Wouldn't they just kind of give a heads up, be like, oh, there's a white one out there, or someone's wearing the black version of this? Like, how does that, or did the designer get greedy and like shut their mouth? I don't know. Who was the designer? Maybe they pulled it not, who did Olivia Wilde wear designer get greeting and like shut their mouth? I don't know. Maybe they pulled it. Not who did Olivia Wilde wear?

Chloe. Who are Chloe? And Margaret Zhang was also wearing the same dress. Yeah. But it was interesting because the dresses were like ever so slightly different. Like one of them, Margaret Zhang, hers had like a longer kind of cape situation in the back. And then Olivia Wilde's was a bit shorter and didn't have the same kind of like trim so it was slightly same same but different it was like

can I copy your homework like yeah but change a few answers was kind of the yeah yeah get a couple wrong yeah yeah um Sydney Sweeney looked insane yeah oh my god truly insane so did she also showed up solo without her fiance who by the way she like they had one of those pr dates following like the scandal don't worry we're fine glenn powell do you think they got along on that date because that was definitely a pr date that was definitely we need to go out we need to get popped at dinner we need to be seen united front so to speak but like do you think he was just like i fucking hate this do you think they argued the whole way through dinner i would have paid to be

a fly on that wall it's just hard because granted i do not i feel like i don't know their relationship everyone kind of had the reaction of like who's this she was engaged what like to who and then you see this guy and he's like a restaurateur from chicago you know he's he's no in the looks department he's no glenn powell and like you think he's he's no in the looks department he's no glenn powell and like you think he was at dinner being like can we get the calamari by the way can you stop looking like you want to fuck glenn powell it's a good question like yeah would they have thought would they have just it was probably very quiet you know like they probably just like ate their food didn't really look miserable those are the photos yeah matching leather jackets yeah very monochromatic moment i just he must be so

insecure because i'm sure from the second they got engaged like everyone was like why do you why do you say he must be so insecure because it's like because from the second he got engaged let's just knock on this guy while he's down no it, it's just from a status publicity standpoint. It's just from a pop culture standpoint. Sydney Sweeney is incredibly significant, is on Euphoria, has all of this attention. And he's a restaurateur. He's not in the industry. And so I feel like the natural instinct is already to be like, oh, she's dating this guy who seems kind of older and seems kind of irrelevant.

I just feel like you would naturally kind of go into that with like a little bit of a complex he also got her 150 000 rings so i don't know i i don't think that alone would make uh any guy insecure i mean it might make some guys insecure i mean if if but generally a secure guy but i think if you're him you don't you don't get sydney sweeney to go on a date with you let alone get engaged to you if you're not like oozing with confidence it just might be just simply dating a celebrity doesn't make him insecure i think it might be the her trying to sell her chemistry with glenn powell on the red carpet that that might make him feel a little less confident about himself for sure yeah he was seen the other day leaving sydney sweeney's home with bags packed the dog and the

dog bed and then the next day this is in new york because she was at at the met gala so did was he just packing for new york because i thought he was moving out i thought he was moving out. I thought he was moving out. Are you going to bring a dog bed? That's just bad timing then. They love that pup. That's fine, but you bring a bed? But bad timing to be like,

hey, I'm traveling to New York to go see my fiance and on the heels of Glenn's ex-girlfriend, you know, posting cryptic stuff on social media and then he's just

on his way to go on a PR date. I don't know, maybe, or maybe it's a real date. He actually, well, no, they both look miserable. Optics wise, do you think it's better if they, Sydney and him, try to make it work for a little bit before breaking up? And then ultimately like she gets with Glenn Powell?

Or do you think it would have been better if both her and Glenn had like left their partners at the same time? This is assuming there is something romantic going on. No, I think the former. It's kind of like a GMA thing. Well, I think if they break up at the same time, it seems like a GMA thing.

It seems premeditated and planned. Well, you break up with your partner, I'll break up with mine and blah, blah, blah. As opposed to it got out that Glenn and Gigi had actually broke up weeks or months ago, which from Glenn's standpoint is like, well, this has nothing to do with my relationship with Gigi. Like it just wasn't working out like my on screen chemistry with Sydney has really like we we didn't break. I didn't break up with Gigi for Sydney as a poet.

And then and then let's say a month later, her and her fiance break up. I mean, it still looks a little messy, but less messy if it all kind of happened all at the same time. Anyways, the Met Gala. The Met Gala. So Anna Wintour has two rules about whether you will be invited back or not. And if you break those two rules, you are not invited back. Ever. Ever. Baby, how do we get invited? Well, her two rules are, if you are there, you're already invited, right? do we get invited? Well, her two rules are if you are there, you're already invited, right? She's saying if you break these two rules,

you will not be invited back. Okay. Okay. Two rules are no smoking and no touching the art. There is a video

of Emma Chamberlain interviewing not quite sure who, but Doja Cat is in the background hitting her vape. Vaping. Being a vape goddess.

With her, like, she was dressed as Ciprieli, which is Karl Lagerfeld's cat. Okay. And she had, like, the cat. The cat. Prosthetics? Was she climbing on art while vaping? No, but the way she was hitting the vape

with her cat prosthetic upper lip was wild to watch. If she was really going to be a cat though, she should go to the art and like bat it off. Yeah, but she's in the interview with Emma Chamberlain and Emma Chamberlain was like, oh my gosh, so who are you wearing? And she's meow. Did she really meow? The whole interview. Her only answers were meow? Yes.

And at one point Emma Chamberlain said, now for your next answer, please go into detail. Celebrities are weird. Meow, meow Chamberlain said, now for your next answer, please go into detail. Celebrities are weird. Meow, meow, meow, meow, meow. It's also like those hosts kind of like really bite the bullet there because they're doing a tough job. They're supposed to have 100 percent success rate. Like, you know, 90 percent or like 95 percent of the stuff like Emma Chamberlain, Chloe Fineman, like are rolling with the punches, handling it. And then one time, Chloe Fineman like fucks up aubrey plaza's name and chloe fineman is on snl yeah she's a cast member on snl she's famous for doing really good impressions yeah so she's a

comedian of some kind what's so crazy is that emma chamberlain is in my opinion probably the best interviewer they i mean everything she does goes viral it's always like a really cute moment with these people and then chloe feinman love you yeah did you see them try and do that again yeah she's like i love you the headline is chloe feinman is ripped for uncomfortable aubrey plaza interview at the met gala. I'm on Chloe's side. How? You don't know the people you're interviewing's name? She literally went Stella McCartney,

Madeline, didn't know Madeline's last name, and Audrey, and started with an S. I thought she was doing a bit. How is that funny, though? Well, I think Aubrey Plaza turned it into a bit by being like slut bone for her last name. Yeah, I just, it's the Met Gala. Like Jared Leto showed up as a full size cat as a literal fucking cat, you know, and who

and then Stella McCartney like asks Chloe if she's taking it seriously as like Jared Leto is walking by dressed as a full size cat. I mean, give me a fucking break. It's just it's a bit pretentious i also wonder too again i don't know the flow of these things probably as well as you guys have been having been interviewers have been on a carpet but how much time does chloe have to either refresh names i mean we talk about all the time for bachelor rose ceremonies you get to step away get the new batch of names come back out but if no you would have producers in your ear you have something in your ear and you know you're that there's producers around you being like okay up next we have Stella McCartney and Madeline Klein

and Aubrey Plaza so yeah you'd have a producer like giving you a heads up right but it is nerve wracking it's very fast paced you're supposed to ask a couple like softball questions, have some fun, keep it loose and then move on. But yeah, I don't I to me, I thought Stella McCartney came across as incredibly stuffy and pretentious in that interview. It's just like give the host some grace. I don't know. I thought she was just having fun. She is a comedian. She's goofy. She I don't know, like also just on a human level like audrey aubrey like i i totally hear the argument for like how do you not know this person's name like this is their big moment but like it's also it's a very human thing to like mess up and if it were me i would be in my

head being like don't say audrey don't say audrey don't say audrey audrey like you know yeah yeah no i i got totally psyched out when uh i was the Red Carpet for the People's Choice. Halle Berry, been a fan my whole life. And then right before, I was just like, Halle, is it Holly? I got in my head. I psyched myself out. And I think I fucked it up. It's just like, yeah, you get really fucking nervous.

And it is the Met Gala. And I don't know i just i just don't think the met gala needs to be this highbrow pretentious fucking thing when you have fucking jared leto dressed up as a a fucking chucky cheese character you know it's like it was carl lagerfeld's cat whatever i mean i'm just saying like are you taking this seriously of course not there's a fucking cat on the red carpet you know it's just like I don't know I just don't think I don't think she deserves to be roasted for this I agree yeah I agree you know um Amelie you had her on the podcast Amelie uh Zilber Zilber yes we were at a party not too long ago well kind of a long time

ago anyways I'm like introducing her to my friends and i'm like this is uh amelia and she's like amelie and i'm like i couldn't hear her because it was so loud and i just keep saying amelia to everyone i introduced her to and she just keeps correcting me she's like amelie amelie anyways love you amelie sorry yeah i don't know anyways yeah it's just matt goll it's a lot of fun i hope nelly and i are get to go someday i'm not trying to shit on it but like let's not take ourselves that fucking seriously also i'm sorry rihanna was so late and the one person who can be late she was like over an hour late apparently did you see asap rocky jumping through the crowd that was great

and over the gate to get there? Yeah. I also like Nick Jonas a couple of years ago took the subway to the Met Gala. That's the shit I love. Yeah. A$AP Rocky wearing street clothes, hiding in the crowd, then jumping the fence only for people who realize it's A$AP Rocky. I love that energy.

I hate the I'm better than you energy. I'm at the Met Gala and everyone needs to take this super serious because I'm finally at the Met Gala and I need to be taken seriously. That's the energy I kind of fucking hate with this. But there is an Anna Wintour interview at the offices and the interviewer literally asked her who is the one person who could be late to the Met Gala and she said Rihanna. So she showed up like an hour after the red carpet ended what what's defined late it opens back up is that what happened because like a red carpet is like a couple hours long right how do you show up late yeah I think they they really cycle people through though because Kris Jenner gets some heat sometimes by security she waits for all of her daughters at the top of the stairs and every year they're like ma''am, you have to go.

You gotta go in. She's like, no, I'm for Chris fucking Jenner. Correct. Yeah. Okay, so they were supposed to follow the arrival of Cardi B who walked the red carpet at 8.45 p.m. Rihanna and Aesop arrived at 10.15.

We're talking 90 minutes here. But also Cardi B left the hotel. You know, that's like the whole moment is everyone's outside of the Carlisle Hotel. And like they all come out and they have their moment walking to their van. Cardi B came out of the hotel in one outfit and then arrived at the Met Gala in a completely different outfit. I love that. That was like stunning.

Cardi B changing. Cardi B. If we get invited to the Met Gala, I just wear tux, right? You would, no. Bradley Cooper wore tux. Well, it depends on the theme. Every year, guys are wearing tuxes. But they do it. If you're Jared

Leto, yeah, you bring a head, or you wear a dress up as a cat. But like, I don't need all, I don't need that Jared Leto energy. No, you have to match the theme. And you would, Bradley Cooper wore a tux. You partner with a designer. We'd partner with Miu Miu, or Saint Laurent, or Versace, or whoever. They all a tux. You partner with a designer. We'd partner with Miu Miu or Saint Laurent or Versace or whoever. They all have tuxes.

Okay. Maybe we won't be invited then because Nick doesn't want to play along. Bradley Cooper wore a tux. Okay. I'll wear a costume. A costume? Is it not called a- Wait, so we can't call it a costume?

I don't know that- Nick shows up as a pirate. Well, we can't callared leto's cat thing a costume that's that's a if a designer designed it a designer designed that yes he didn't pick that up from party city it's the literal it's the exact look of his cat him and doja cat did the same thing doja cat just obviously which cat did we like better? Honestly, I like Jared Leto. He looked very cute. I'm going to scratch his head. Doja Cat just looks scary.

It is a good question, though. At what point does an outfit become a costume? Like, where is that? How do you know? How do you know? Fashion is art. And art is up for interpretation. So, interpretate it however you want.

Is costume offensive? I would think so. I would say that it is, yes. If I design something and you're like, oh my God, what a fun costume. I'd be like. Oh, one. Please put it in the comments what you think of is costume an offensive term and also at what point does it go from a costume to an outfit?

Okay. Let's have the people speak. All right. Anything else before we get to Ronnie? Well, Cher and her boyfriend who is like 40 years younger than her. He's 40 or 40 years younger? 40 years younger. He's in his 30s.

She's in her 70s. That seems... We can have zero opinion on an age gap. Zero. We support. As long as it's legal, we support. Sharon. Yes. What is his his name how did they meet oh did she slide into his dm alexander a.e edwards oh um sounds kind of royal i have so many initials too many broken hips is that why they broke up

does that sound better in your head i was just you know i was just trying i was just trying there's i'm sure there's some very vitamin d queens older people who are like how dare you i will break your fucking hip before you ever on the third hip replacement surgery so they met at terrace fashion week in september they're all it's a budding it's new yeah it was only a few months they broke up a few weeks ago and the split was amicable. Although she was gifted a massive diamond ring

from him around Christmas. So there was a little bit of speculation like what's going on there? What is this photo? I know. It's just like they just feel like

they're at such different phases of life. He's like can't even sit up straight. You know, good for Cher share like i'm five feet away from this photo but like it doesn't look odd it doesn't they don't look he can't even sit up to take a photo with her she looks pretty good oh she looks fabulous you're sitting next to an icon how old is she 76 she's 76 years old she's taking a picture with her 30-year-old boyfriend, and it looks pretty fucking good.

Yeah. Did you tell, I don't know if you did it on Howie's episode, but did you talk about Stagecoach and how you carried me on your back? A little bit, yeah. By all means. We want your perspective, too. I was damn near sleeping on that side of that road because I could not walk any further.

First of all, that was the first time I'd worn these. No, not the first, like third time. So I hadn't broken these boots in. Right. And we took a wrong turn and ended on the complete. We were left. First of all, let me say that we were left by our friends, left to ourselves. We took a wrong turn out and ended quite honestly and probably in santa barbara

yeah we ended in santa barbara so we call and all the roads are closed so no one can we can't call an uber so we're walking i'm like you know what let me take these boots off walk in my socks i have so many blisters on my feet like blood blisters that walking no it like hurt even worse so then i take my socks off and there's patches of grass i'm like walk on this grass you know i'm on the phone with a friend trying to like procure a ride but all the streets are closed and then she steps in grass and the grass is like wet like feels kind of good i'm like okay this is refreshing and then all of a sudden prickly's everywhere she steps on on spikes. And then I go, she starts crying.

She falls over. I'm like, I got a situation. I got to go. It was like truly survival. She's screaming in the background. Yeah, we're like laying there. He's like, all right, I got to carry you.

And there's one thing about me. I do not want to be carried. Really? No, no. Because I know that I'm not light. Huh? I know I'm not want to be carried really no no because I know that I'm not light I know I'm not light especially because I was wearing 100% suede pants sure the pants

but I'm going to push back on the beginning of that sentence so Nick is carrying me on his back and there's like this fence post I'm like you've got to just take your breaks set me on his back and there's like this fence post i'm like you've got to just take your breaks set me on this fence post i'm going like every 150 yards carrying then we take a break and how is morale at this point are you feeling close together or like honestly yes we are we are a

united front yes yes okay no no no no nick is very good in situations like that he like our friend earlier in the day got some like heat exhaustion she got really hot and it's like pouring water on her back like cold water he's like he's very good in situations like this so he was in survival mode i stepped up he stepped up to the plate for sure and i just hear this woman in the background who's walking and she's like i'm fucking over it and i was like like everyone was just at a bad put it this way we we left uh stagecoach at the end of the night and that kind of safari or adventure uh we left i don't know like 11 11 30 the grounds we didn't get back to our hotel room until 2.30, 2.45 in the morning. Now, there was a Del Taco run mixed in at the end after we finally got to our car, which took some time.

Which Nick said was better than Taco Bell. No, no, I said it's on par with Taco Bell. What do you get at Del Taco? Because their menu throws me for a loop. They have burgers and tacos and waffles. For those who don't know, Del Taco is a Western version. It's like a California Taco Bell. I think it's like if Taco Bell and White Castle had a baby.

I think that's a good comp because there's something about it that's a little bit haunting anyway on sunday we left the grounds after fully knowing where to go and we went back to our hotel showered got back in our car drove back to la which is a two and a half hour drive and got back to our house sooner than we got back to our hotel room on friday night that's how it was gnarly wow how tragic it fucking was trying to carry her over a half a mile i just like we end up walking like two miles that night no the best was i asked my family group chat with our family friends who have a place out near there and i said should we do stagecoach next year and my mom said yes we looked into it but it's like so extremely expensive it's,500 for a chair. My sister goes, $1,500? And Nick and Natalie

still had to walk for miles in the rain? And I was like, well, there's no rain. There's no rain. Where did the rain come from? It would have been so much worse. There was sleet and snow

and thunderstorms. The tornado. And an earthquake was also happening. I was like, no rain. It felt like that. Yeah. Anyway.

I bet it would have been beautiful if it had rained. It was so hot that first day that I was- Not with her suede pants though. Oh no. Oh my God. Oh then someone spilled ketchup on them. And then I fought her.

You did? What did you do? We were in the pit and there was a girl and my friend Haley was beside me and she's like, who brings food into the pit? She had a thing of tots with a bunch of ketchup and it stunk. It smelled so bad. He was like, who does this? Anyways, she drops them because there's no trash can and the ketchup splatters all over

my suede pants. Ruined them. So wait, I'm so fascinated in like a situation like that where it's like someone has clearly wronged you, but it's always like uncomfortable to acknowledge it how did you what did you say to her oh I mean she did not there were no words exchanged it was just like she dropped it and I had no idea until we were like walking out and I looked down I'm like what is I thought it was like a cranberry juice or something and Haley was like no the girl beside me had ketchup that's ketchup so you didn't even have a moment to hold her accountable.

I couldn't even choke her out. She's just walking around stagecoach with red splattered all over her pants. Nick was like, listen, you started your period early. And I was like, that's not how that works. Only on the outside. Down by my knees. Just like jumped. I'm running away.

Yikes. Well, Kevin Costner, his wife of 18 years filed for divorce. I love him. Do we think he's okay? Because he was in the news

a little while ago when they were talking about the next season of Yellowstone and there just being a lot of like conflict around scheduling. And he was very much painted as like the problem. I think he is just

old and grumpy and just doesn't want to deal with people anymore including his wife probably i disagree i think he's a lovely man no sure but i'm just saying as we get older we get a little less flexible i don't think it's this more he just wants to do what kevin wants to do do you think he'll get remarried maybe He's had a lot of expensive divorces. Yeah, Nick said this the other day. I remember back in the day, he's been married for 18 years to this particular person, but he had a very well-known, incredibly expensive divorce.

Cindy Costner was his first wife. They were married from 1978 to 1994. Well, how much did this divorce cost? Apparently she was given $80 million in settlement fees. $80 million. And that was like in 1993. We're never getting divorced. Ever.

Great. Is this a shit story question? Do you guys talk about prenups or anything? When do couples have that talk in all of the many beautiful parts of wedding planning? As soon as I was like, Nick, I want to date you he's like all right listen are you gonna talk about that was pre-new york yeah it was pre-meeting literally yeah while we're like talking on snapchat he's like how do you feel about a prenup so she walks in i'll set the stage she walks into the hotel he's standing by the elevator bay with a piece of paper and a pen and be like sign this immediately immediately served

immediately uh yeah i know i think listen i think it's really important to talk about finances what is what does our therapist say the bed there's a budget she said there's a lot there's the bank the bed and there's the third one the broom room but there's also like babies and like a few other bees she says three are like the main ones that can be couples that really cause it that that cause problems in relationships like fights over the budget the bank slash whatever sex the bedroom and cleaning cleaning the broom you know like those cause a lot of frustrations and committed relationships. So, yeah, you have to be up front with how you spend money and how you guys budget money and things like that. So, yeah, again, being in a relationship, being married, you have to make it work every day.

And you hope for the best and plan for the worst. And you can tailor a prenup to however you want it to be. But I guess like the, yeah, I guess I i don't feel and i'm making you sign a prenup too bitch so get your pen ready but like i don't feel like i am entitled to money that he made before we were together like that feels weird to me if like all of this stuff he's doing like his podcast you know know, started in 2019. We started seeing each other at the end of 2019. Like I'm not entitled to that money that he, you know, like that's crazy to me.

Totally. Is there a part of wedding planning that you are at right now? Preen up all that shit aside. Like is there something that you're kind of most looking forward to that is like captivating the most of your attention with the wedding coming up we need to find a wedding planner because i just can't the second i start thinking about it i get really overwhelmed because it's so much that goes into it and like i think we have the place we want to do it i think we're going to pull the trigger on it but it's just like we've got a it's just a venue so like it's not a wedding venue it's just a beautiful place so we've got to really

use a vision I got to pull out my Pinterest mood board and make it come to life which Pinterest mood boards are definitely a lot less expensive than the actual thing I will tell you reposting and saving is very cheap well we have an

amazing episode the rest of the way. Ronnie Rue is with us. It's an incredible conversation. Before we get to Ronnie, don't forget we have another episode of Better Date Than Never live tonight, 9 p.m. Eastern. We're talking butt stuff? Ew. Yes.

Sorry. Baby. It's butt club. It's butt club. It's a sexy show. Oh, my gosh. People are learning. Is your sister coming in tonight? Yeah. Amazing? this is it's a sexy it's a it's called it's fuck club it's a sexy show you know people where people are learning is your sister coming in tonight yeah amazing ali's doctor sister the smarter one of the family thank you nicholas just fucking with you intelligence comes in all

forms everybody's thinking she's a doctor you work for a fucking pop culture podcast like you know nick ali is smart no nick's been saying that, though. Like, one of the first times I ever went over to your guys' house to film content and he was kind of, like, learning about our families and I mentioned what my sister does

and he was like, oh, fuck. You're just here filming TikToks. And I was like, well, great. Sorry to be the disappointment to your parents, you know. It's okay. I feel like you're the exciting one.

I bet everybody at, like, holidays, like, it's like, oh my God, and Ali one I bet everybody at like holidays like it's like oh my god an alley works in Hollywood like I'm sure everybody is very she's just like

there was this person who we cut open and they're like that's enough of that she was like you wanna hear about kidneys yeah

like you know who got cut open Chloe Fineman when she was hosting the Met Gala yeah alley fun at Thanksgiving

yeah so that'll be a fun episode truly Better Day Than that'll be a fun episode. Truly a better day than ever is a great community. I love everyone who, who joins every night. If you are looking for companionship, friendship,

or just a really good time, check it out. It's live 9 PM. Eastern. Also, don't forget. We have updates and we have a new update dropping tomorrow behind vile files. Plus an update special.

Check it out. Go to VileFiles.com to check out Vile Files Plus. It's free to sign up. So go ahead and check out some of the updates, including a couple updates ago, we had our caller who is dating a man, but she is only attracted to women

and she got proposed to, and she is in the middle of a saga. That is a story you have to check out. It is available behind Vile Files Plus. Anything else before we get to Ronnie? Also, we filmed a podcast with the Lautners. Yes, Laut. He says Taylor Lautner.

Did y'all know that? Because I learned that this morning while I watched it. What? That he pronounces it Lautner. Lautner. Not Lautner. Not Lautner. So, mind blown here wow

yeah anyways we just did a podcast with them it came out yesterday it is very mental health surrounding obviously we talk about the first time we met and go through that whole story but i think we really dive into our mental health therapy journey, especially I do since I just recently started therapy and it has been life-changing for me. So I really talk about my experience and my time there. I open up for the very first time about some traumatic events I have been through. So if you'd be so kind to go and give it a listen. Yeah. Maybe it'll help someone out there who's struggling with some of the same stuff. Absolutely. Love you guys.

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That's D-R-I-Z-L-Y.com. Drizzly.com. Ronnie, welcome. Nick, thanks for having me. Thanks for coming. How's it going? It's going well. Just a week two into like book promo stuff, so it's going.

I didn't realize how crazy it would be. It's crazy. I mean, as you know. Is this your first book? This is my first book. Really? Yeah. You're so accomplished.

I almost find that surprising. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, no, it's been a long time, the making, and it's been one of those things where I kind of want it to be perfect, and so I think it finally is exactly the book that was meant to be. That's awesome. Yeah. Well, we're excited to have you, as you probably know, or maybe you don't. We talk a lot about relationships and dating on this show. I do know that.

You have a background in that. I do. A lot of people are like, well, I feel at this point, I feel like people kind of know, but for those who don't, I have an MFT, but I also have an MBA as well. So I kind of, when I say kind of have two masters, I actually have two masters. That's awesome. And your MFT is in? Marriage and family therapy. Okay.

Have you, or do you practice that now? Or is that something that you went to school for and just kind of use just throughout life, but maybe don't necessarily take clients? Yeah. So I don't practice right now. I originally wanted to be like a relationship therapist, but essentially like tell people how to like act in their relationships. And mainly because I wanted to help people really just because it's kind of fun telling people what to do. But I actually did one year internship at an AIDS and health clinic. So it was like really super intense, like people

that had, you know, obviously, you know, dealing with AIDS and then also people dealing with, you know, different types of like mental health issues. And then I kind of realized that I was a little bit too blunt maybe. And I think maybe not like the perfect energy in a therapeutic setting. So I decided to not do that. But I totally practiced everything I learned. Did you have like, I mean, I'm not a therapist. We talk about relationships all the time. I'm known for being blunt. Do you have a story with people that you worked with where you thought that they didn't receive your bluntness well? I mean, it's been so long. And honestly, I can't... I had maybe five or six clients when

you first start because when you graduate you only have like you get like a handful of clients and none of them are like all that intense i mean it's a good question but i funny enough i don't actually have like i think most people kind of like took to me pretty well but it was more just like i think i'm like i think i shouldn't be telling people what to do like in a therapeutic setting because i think ultimately like anyone's just kind of guide them and get their own questions yeah like therapy is really like about like helping people help themselves yeah because i think a lot of people expect like therapy to be like assault like a problem solver and it's not my therapist is she's a little bit more opinionated though is she darling like that i do darling yeah yeah i i you know and again i i i like bluntness i'm a direct guy myself

she she doesn't tell me what to do but she's also not afraid of sharing her opinion on certain topics which yeah i appreciate it let's not beat around the bush it's like what the fuck what's on your mind just totally tell me what you think i may disagree with you but like you know i don't i don't need the whole you know thread the needle totally i think like personality wise i think that if that fits you that's like all that matters because i think ultimately like when i say blunt to like i might almost be like too blunt like darlene sounds like she's just the right amount of being like in your face almost judgmental yeah why would you do that

I try not to be judgmental but yes essentially like there's a look on your face of like disgust that sounds great like just like yeah exactly like telling people like that is not how you should live your life like what did you do how many did you take

you slept with how many holy shit i mean either good for you or like whoa like you know cool the jets yo like yeah you're probably not supposed to go ghost white as a therapist totally yeah totally i mean i think at this point i've i've encountered enough people just in my life just to not really be shocked by anything anymore so i, I mean, like, I think when I was younger, I was like, think about the other day when I was younger, I was definitely shocked by a lot more things that people like being like, whatever, like whatever they've done, like sexually or anything, you know? And at this point, I think my life, I just don't judge anyone for what they do, barring that they're hurting other people or themselves.

I couldn't, I couldn't agree more. It's just kind of like, yeah, you are who you are. Totally. And I love that. As long as they're not hurting other people or themselves. If you're happy and you feel happy, then that's all. It's between you and your God and your community, but I don't really care. Totally. Exactly. And then you transition to food, obviously, which is what your book is about. And you're a celebrity chef, I guess. Yeah. Which is pretty cool to say. You say that like you don't believe it, Nick.

It's like, well, it sounds kind of like, how does one become a celebrity? I would say celebrity chef is up there in the kind of echelon of like cool dream jobs. And what I mean by that is like, you know, there's a there's a finite amount of jobs that when you watch like a movie or a TV show or a romcom, they're pulling from a very small bucket of like cool jobs that like people watch the movies would want. Like an advertising, you know, agent, like architect, architect or like, you know, a designer or or like you know a designer or you know a journalist or chef does she have in the hallmark film before she goes home to the little village falls in love with and has this cool job and he's a celebrity chef or whatever it is like it yeah it's like a thanks one of those like cool jobs my whole life i you know i went i went to school to be an accountant so like the first years of my life like when i was like out there dating

and i was like so what do you do and i was like i'm an accountant like and then now even though like i love what i do it's like so what do you do i was like well i have a podcast which is a whole kind of yeah you know you met natalie what did you tell her i mean does she already know who you were previously she not initially no and what did you tell her you did like how do you describe your job you know what i mean well wait we met up in new york because you're like bachelor royalty yeah we met in new york and and she uh we were walking the streets and like people like started honking their horns and like waving. And she's like, how do you, what's that about? And I was like, I got a podcast,

which is it's ironically, and that was like three years ago. And so that's when my podcast was relatively new. But what is cool is that now when I go out in public, I do get stopped and recognize more for this show than for being the bachelor which was kind of cool of experience but back then it was more like i didn't i don't ever like to lead with my time on the show like i don't i'll talk about it but i just i i it's not something you're ashamed of obviously i'm not ashamed i'm just not i'm not proud of it i'm not ashamed of it okay it is it is what it is it was a really unique experience yeah and it's clearly done well for you yeah yeah i've been able to to work through it but like i've And it's clearly done well for you. Yeah. Yeah. I've been able to work through it, but like I've never, it's, I've never had a job that just, I could just say and feel like really good about it without having to explain it.

Cause even podcasting, it's like, there's, what does that even mean? It's like, I got a pot. It sounds like such an LA thing to say. It's like, tell me you're unemployed. Just say that. Yeah. Exactly. Right. So I'm an entrepreneur. You know i'm an actor singer model yeah like i got tons of projects in the world i also like manage on the side you know like you know yeah totally though i mean you've been in this city long enough you know that's literally when someone

answers a certain way you know they're you know they're they're they're trying their best yeah so it's like i fucking i hate the question so i'm just i'm very envious of celebrity chef yeah i mean like when people ask me what i do i don't go i'm a celebrity chef no i know like when someone says that that's like kind of even chef it's like oh really well also what kind of chef i'm a celebrity yeah private chef private chef yeah people are like are you a private chef and like right now i don't really i'm not doing the private chef stuff at least currently i'm not it's on hiatus because i'm focusing on the book and other projects and it's like but it is like people are like oh do you own a restaurant that's automatically where people go and i'm like i've never owned a restaurant before is that something

you'd want to do i don't know like it sounds it sounds horrific yes yes it totally sounds like i love the way my life is like i'm able to do this and it's a lot of work but at the same time like i am able to sort of be a little more flexible yeah and like spend time with my husband and my dogs you know not when i want to but more often than i would if i had like a strict schedule where i had to go to the restaurant and prep and do all this stuff so it's funny but you know there's some moments where wanting to be a private chef is more so to be like having to prove myself. And I'm always like, I think for the longest time, it's just like feeling like I have to prove myself to the culinary world because my background,

I've started out as a model and then I have these two master's degrees and they're like, well, he's just all over the place. I'm like, well, I've been doing chefing stuff for 10 years and having to prove myself at a certain point, I was i don't need to prove myself to anybody like i've killed it in my own way i've marched the beat of my own drum i've done it the way i wanted to do it and i live this life that i want to live you know and i'm not hopefully gonna die from weird hours and like you know bad eating habits habits and being overweight and not getting enough sleep. So yeah, it sounds the restaurant business sounds.

No, it's horrible. And the return, you know, if you even have a return, it doesn't come back for like years and you're just like forever. Yeah. Ever really. There's like smarter ways to make money. There are. Yeah.

Just join OnlyFans. You really have to. That's my next thing. You know, I will say like OnlyFans has become like if it all goes to shit just do OnlyFans and there's so many people like you don't even have to be like

conventionally hot you know there's so many categories on OnlyFans although can we tell this story I want to hear this story you can't say can we tell the story and not tell the story the feet what my feet. What? My feet? Your OnlyFans failure.

Wait, you had a feet OnlyFans for feet? First attempt. First attempt at launch. There could be another one. No, it wasn't. We didn't do OnlyFans. I think we were on like Feet Finder and some other places. Wicca Feet?

Are you on Wicca Feet? No, he's not. I just found myself on Wicca Feet. Are you? I have an excellent rating rating what is your rating check the current one mine is like a five or something what's yours oh i don't know if it's i mean i might might i might be 4.8 oh you might be better you're a 4.96 what am i that's let's find it amazing ronnie is a 4.88 oh my god yes two very high scores i mean those are close and we'll just round up

five i mean i mean maybe a little i've always prided myself in my feet content i have solid feet yeah you know a lot of men don't take care of their feet i don't know it's like you don't take care of your feet you just naturally have they keep themselves clipped i can't say that i do i i've had three or four pedicures in my life because you know i've like you know gone with girlfriends and like they're enjoyable i don't yeah i don't mind them but i i definitely it's not because i like i'm on a regular pedicure regiment or anything like that do you clip your toenails no you just let them grow well i mean i i have clipped your toenails? No. What? You just let them grow? Well, I mean, I have clipped my toenails. You have to clip your toenails. Yeah, yeah.

They just keep growing. But maybe once a month. Okay. Okay. I just, I question because you bite your fingernails. Eventually, like, I'll look and be like, you know, but. Yeah. Yeah.

Also, I, it's been revealed that I'm a, I'm a nail biter. Oh, okay. But. But a skillful one. a very skillful one so you only bite your nails yeah so you're like the guy who like bites it in a like as if you're a nail clipper yeah and i kind of like i like file it down a little bit get some shaping no literally my sisters are both of them are dentists and they apparently they say that nail biting is just bad for your teeth I think it's bad for your heart As a chef and as someone who also is an expert in relationships

We thought it'd be a lot of fun to talk about food As it relates to dating and relationships I used to date a vegetarian I'm a heavy meat eater It was a nightmare But so I want, you know, just kind of talk about that But before we get into that I also, the fact that you are a private chef or you've been a private chef, I must ask, and I'm sorry to put you on the spot.

No, you can do whatever. Did Gwyneth do it? Did like, were you ever in the kitchen where Gwyneth just put out like a a scream and then ran into you in the kitchen and then like darted out uh like a hit and run kitchen innocent incident did that ever happen or what what do you think because I feel like to the skiing incident yes I gotta ask like based on what you know uh making Gwyneth some food do you did you make her more than bone broth also? I don't know if I'm supposed to say but she like eats like a normal person

I mean like she does she eats like steak and like all that stuff I mean she's not like eating like hoards and pounds of it but she's like a normal person she's actually super normal like I mean like contrary to like she seems lovely she actually kind of is lovely she's definitely a privileged person but she's actually she's lovely actually and um i yeah

i think i'm on her side i mean like obviously i the whole thing is kind of whack the whole entire story of like the thing is whack um do you have any other kind of fun experiences i mean like how did you even get into i mean mean, you've worked with some, like, Kathy Griffin, Charlie Sheen, Jessica Alba, Gwyneth, Mindy Kaling. I mean, some heavy hitters. Yeah. How did you get into that circle?

I don't know. I mean, I don't think they, like, if you actually put them together, I don't think each of them actually know each other. So I don't actually know. I think it just kind of became the person that people would call to do these events. Okay. And I think in the beginning, it was like really exciting for me because I was like trying to get into these like circles and I

was like trying to figure out how to like evolve my career into something a little more elevated. I think it was just more fun being like in these people's homes that you see. Like now at this point, I feel I've met so many of them, you know, I've done like other TV and and stuff so like everyone's just kind of like normal like to me it's like everyone's just like a normal person like sort of the the mystery of it all is kind of like unveiled and it's exciting it's fun but i wouldn't say it's like exciting where you're kind of like nervous to meet these people the first i think the first person i ever met do you remember nancy odell that she was like a really she's like the og, the entertainment reporter. Nancy was one of my first supporters

in Bachelor Nation. I met her a long time ago. And when Bachelor Nation wasn't quite a fan of me, she was. Yeah, so love Nancy. Yeah, you always love your first supporters, right? Like they're the ones who believe in you. Like no, Nick, you will become Bachelor royalty. You will. But

she was one of the first people that I did an event for. And I remember being so nervous because I saw her on TV growing up. She's been doing it for like ages. But sort of over time, you just, you kind of like, they're just kind of like,

I wouldn't say just another client, but they're just like another person. But I will say, and I won't name who, but there was one client I had because I'm not shady like that. I don't want to name them, but I'm sure you could probably guess who it is

if you kind of look at the list of people I've worked with. And it's not Charlie Sheen because he's lovely. He's actually super lovely and really nice, really complimentary. But there was one client I had who was kind of rude and a friend of my husband's friend. So she kind of already knew us. I said,

she, but most of my clients are women. That makes me sound like a prostitute too, but no, I'm not a prostitute. Um, but I guess in a way, but,

uh, I think it's like, she like, wouldn't like, I really wanted a picture with her just cause I was like a huge fan, but it was like more so just cause like to show my friend, my, my husband's friend that I was like, Hey, we were at this person's house and she was just like

super rude and she wouldn't let us take a picture with her phone i mean with our phone and she like only was like okay i'll have so and so her boyfriend do it and she took a picture and then she just like totally ghosted me and never gave it back but the worst offense was the fact that she wanted her filet mignon cut up like we got these like really nice filet she was like can you cut this i cooked it like perfectly as i do and like medium rare in the middle but like perfectly seared and crusty on the outside and i was like so excited and then she like told me she's like can you chop this up into little pieces and cook it till it's gray like those verbatim and i think my heart died and i was like i i i don't know what to do that was that was it's an offensive it was offensive thing to say yeah how

do you feel as a chef about like modifications or people wanting to kind of like customize their food because uh i are you that person well listen i yes uh nick's like over here like I'm allergic And by allergic I mean I say that Because I don't want to deal Anita does the same thing as seafood To mayonnaise You don't like mayonnaise? Anything mayonnaise based

Fucking chipotle sauce Crap whatever I don't fuck you and your special sauce You don't like mayonnaise? I hate mayonnaise What about an aioli? Oh disgusting What is it about mayonnaise You don't like mayonnaise? I hate mayonnaise. What about an aioli? Oh, disgusting. Really?

What is it about mayonnaise you don't like though? Everything. Because it's just eggs and oil. Do you eat eggs? I do. Do you eat oil? I mean, you have to eat oil. I mean, you don't like drink oil.

I mean, who does that? I don't like most spreads. I'm not like a sauce guy, which is the opposite of Natalie. Because I'll eat a burger for the burger. She eats it for the sauce. She eats it for the yeah the condiments uh but yeah so i'm very non condiment sauce foreign sauces interesting there's rare for me to go to a new restaurant without at least a you just ask for a thing on the side on the side or a modification but yeah do you find that offensive and annoying and obnoxious i i will

at least be like apologetic and like this is a me problem but i'm sorry i'm allergic like i'll die i'll die test you yeah you're just fine um no i don't find it obnoxious as long as people are apologetic about it or like nice about it yeah it's the people who are like indignant and entitled about it like they deserve this modification and you're just like you're like can you just kill me now but if you're apologetic about it nice i think that gets you a long way with just most things in life my modifications are always removing something right i'm like just don't put it on right you know and i've been to restaurants are like no yeah i'm like just but i'm just asking you not to put it on i will pay you more been to restaurants that are like, no. But I'm like, but I'm just asking you

not to put it on. I will pay you more money to use less ingredients. Right. You'll be making a bigger profit off of me tonight. It doesn't, and being a private chef also,

like, that's kind of the nature of it as well. People are paid a premium to have it customized. So that is sort of what I'm asking for. The fresh,

not the freshening part, but it gets difficult when like every person who attends this private dinner has a different allergy. Yeah. And that annoys me. And it's like, it's more of like preferences versus like actual legitimate allergies.

I mean, like I know you're, don't have an allergy to mayonnaise, but it's more like preferences where people like, well, I don't really like this. And I'm like, you know,

and it's, it's very much like, well, on a scale of one and i'm like you know and it's it's very much like well on a scale of one to ten like is this going to kill you or not and like you know if you're at someone else's party also like it's really not your place to be like you know it's it's more annoying to me when the guests of people are like yeah can you tell the chef to do this and it's fine like that's what you're paying that i wouldn't do yeah yeah just i just like put it in there and like sorry oh and one of them dies i'm like just like shrug my shoulders uh early and i guess someone who's dealt with uh you know couples and relationships and in cooking i find that can be you know we we fight about the dumbest stuff in relationships and so dietary preferences

and things like that you know what do you have any i guess how do i want to ask this it's more like you know i dated a vegetarian right now i want to hear about every detail of that because i i would i wouldn't even date i wouldn't even go on a first date with someone really they were like a vegetarian or a vegan you know like that would be one herb i just read trigger warning i was doing research for my project yesterday yeah trigger i was doing research for my project yesterday and like apparently on dating apps and like millions of people admit to like not dating someone simply just because of their food preferences well interestingly enough like i and i've told this story before but as a young lover i i i wanted to think of myself as a term as a romantic and and so it was like you

know all that matters is our love you know right i don't even as everyone wants to think yeah i don't even care if i like you you know um right as long as there's like love but it's like a and natalie uh i'm a bit of a creature of habit i like like to cook. We don't have the most expansive palates. We're not that bad, but we love a lot of the same things. And then the sauce differences is not an issue because she'll have her sauce. I won't. Right. She'll eat your sauce. Yeah.

Literally. Literally. Gross. That load conversation. Where's my load? My load. There's nothing wrong about that. We can get into the sex conversation that's really important yeah but dating someone or being with someone where we like a lot of the same foods is

such a fucking win and an unappreciated thing that if you if you didn't have before it just there's something to be said about like relationships are hard enough so there's the stuff that just like the routine things that you know aren't inconveniences to you like are so great i mean can you make it work if you you know if you don't like the same thing and you have to make modifications sure but like it just gets fucking annoying it gets annoying i know couples that actually have varying like food preferences and i don't know how they do it i have a friend a couple who and it works i'm not it's like me to say like it works for certain people but i have a friend who became vegan because his partner is

vegan and it's very much like how do you do that question is like what's more important to you food or quote-unquote love in this case but i think for the majority of people, I think food is like on par with love or at least maybe even more important. One of my favorite things to do in life is eat. Yeah. Yeah. I also think food is a love language. Forcation is, yeah.

Totally. Because it's distinct from like acts of service. It's distinct from like gifts. Like there is, and it's like a different sensation. Like I really think it is like a way that so many people like show like a caring and nurturing and like have a shared experience. Well, it's kind of an act of service if you're cooking. But I think it's like a different sensation. Like I really think it is like a way that so many people like show like a caring and nurturing and like have a shared experience. Well, it's kind of an act of service if you're cooking.

But I think it's different because it's also quality time. Like there's something experiential about it. Yeah, if you're doing it together. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, when we... There's different levels to it, right? And it's like a shared experience in a way that I think like...

Like when you're eating together or cooking it, but like eating together. I agree with Amanda. Like eating together, you're experiencing something. You'll recall that meal or it's something fun to do together. Like traveling for us, like me and my husband, we travel. The eating part is really important. You know, like we love our breakfasts and we love our lunches, dinner.

I guess we love all of our meals. Nick's going to go on vacation with you next. He's ready to go. Breakfast people. We love a good morning breakfast like a lazy breakfast for you like wake up you like sleep in you call room service they deliver it to you and like that's like my favorite thing because normally in our day-to-day we don't we don't sit down and eat breakfast because we're out the door one of us is up early and leaving super early so but yeah food is one of those things where it's just like for me it's a non-negotiable like i would not be able to be

with a vegan or a vegetarian like no like offense to any of them it's just for me personally i know what works for me and what doesn't i think that's ultimately where it boils down to right is like knowing yourself it's a food so obviously it's such a big part of your life it's just like so much of you, you wouldn't be able to share. Right. And who would I make fun of vegans and vegetarians with

if I was with one? You know what I mean? Trigger one. Well, I also feel like there's plenty of vegans and vegetarians who are like, this is a big value for me. So I couldn't date someone who ate meat.

I think it's kind of self-selects in that way. It works both ways. You know what I mean? So I'm sure vegans look at me while I'm downing like a t-bone steak and like with disgust and like barfing in their mouths you know so like you know it works both ways yeah i was vegan for a week and it makes you so aggressive like i was pissed i went to a birthday party and the waiter put like a slice of cake down in front of me. And I was like, I can't eat it. That's why they tell everyone they're vegan.

It's like an announcement when they enter a room or a group of people. Like, I am vegan. And we're just like, yay. Like, you know, it was awful. It's you're on edge 24 seven. Yeah. And you're hungry all the time. There's no way for the vegan community up in our comments.

Shout out to the vegan community. I support you if you are hungry all the time. I can't wait for the vegan community to be up in our comments. Oh, shout out to the vegan community. I support you. I support you if you are able to do it. I support, like, if you're able to do it, more power to you. I'm like, you're saving our environment in a way I'm not. What is your favorite simple go-to meal to make that you like to whip up in the kitchen or that you would recommend for anyone out there who wants to kind of, you know, there may not be a chef and want to get in the kitchen

and impress their partner with a little bit of cooking skills that is easy, delicious, and you often can find those ingredients in the kitchen. In my book, there's like a chapter on noodles. There's a chapter on sauces, by the way. You can skip that, but Natalie will like those. I'm going to make her a sauce i mean i think sauces are like lifesavers but well you know it's a different story but um i think like in the book there's some there's this recipe that that's chilled ramen with chicken and cucumbers and it's really just like simple like you get ramen um and you like

roast a chicken breast and i always tell people people always like how do you roast chicken breast because I eat a lot of chicken I always say like get the bone in skin on chicken breast and that way you buy yourself a little bit of margin of error because the bone keeps it like moist and the skin will help sort of baste it with a little bit of fat a lot of people just get like the boneless skinless and that can kind of a bone in skin guy yeah I mean it also just tastes better with a little bit of skin but if even if you're not eating the skin and the bones no one eats the bones but if you're not eating the skin like you can take it off and tear it so in the in the book there's a recipe to make that just like a simple roasted chicken breast and then like the other ingredients are you know ramen noodles but you can substitute for like spaghetti and stuff and then you have like

cucumbers and you have a little bit tahini like I think there might be peanut butter in there if you don't have tahini you can use peanut butter there's just like a few like simple ingredients and it creates this like super yummy meal you can make it in batches and then keep it in the fridge so okay yeah I like that mine is I'm not going to pronounce it

correctly but the pasta it actually has like an A it's just basically the spicy one? I like it A. It's just basically... Arrabbiata? The spicy one? I like it spicy. Is that tomato sauce? No, it's just olive oil, garlic, a little bit of butter, and spaghetti with a little... Cacio e pepe?

No, it's pasta aliola or whatever. I know you're talking about, but I'm not Italian, so I can't think of it. But I know you're talking about it. It's super simple. Super about, but I'm not Italian, so I can't think of it. Yeah. But I know you're talking about it. It's like super simple. Super simple. Yeah.

So delicious. But delicious. So good. Yeah. Yeah. Parmesan cheese, a little bit at the end. Right. You know, some parsley, fresh parsley if you have it. Right.

I know you're talking about. You can use the dried spices. Right. If you don't have the fresh parsley at home. But yeah, it's like 15 minutes to make. Yeah. Pasta is always like a good. So good.

A good like quick dinner idea but it's also like you know not the best thing what's a common cooking error that you see people make all the time that most people think is the right way but as a chef you know they're doing it incorrectly or that like a pet peeve of yours yeah i mean i have the weirdest relationship with chicken because i eat it so much but i'm also like really weird about salmonella like i'm a total germaphobe and like a neat freak so like you know like after i deal with chicken i'm like scrubbing down the whole house because and that's like every night i'm like scrubbing down the whole house because i hate

the idea of salmonella um and i just don't want to be shitting out my pants for like five days yeah but it's a pet peeve when people it's like all related to chicken when like people wash their chicken like it's like such a bad move because you're like basically like splattering salmonella all over the place and then when people touch

chicken and then touch other things and like just like touch surfaces and stuff and don't wash their hands like you know immediately following touching chicken that's my biggest pet peeve I actually don't let my husband make chicken like that's a rule I guess I've never washed my chicken because it's just I'm gonna cook it thank you exactly like I think the 500 degrees is gonna deal with that problem right if you're gonna wash your chicken then I mean like what you might like you're

gonna wash the insides and everything to like you know it's kind of just like who washes their steak yeah plus you want it dry when you're going to wash the insides and everything, too. Like, you know, it's kind of just like... Yeah, like, who washes their steak? Yeah. Plus, you want it dry when you're cooking it because it gets moist and instead of, like, roasting, you start to steam it, you know? What's your favorite way to cook a steak? On the stove, actually. Like, I actually don't...

Like, I would prefer a steak cooked on, like, a skillet on the stove versus, like, grilled. I'm pretty good at cooking a steak. Are you? How do you cook it? On a stove. Yeah. Yeah. on like a skillet on the stove versus like grilled i'm pretty good at cooking a steak are you how do you cook it uh on a stove yeah yeah i used to first i would uh sear it uh like a minute on each side and then put in the oven for like uh like 10 8 minutes or whatever right uh then i would grill i've grilled it before uh i'm pretty good at that too but my my favorite is just a great, you know, cast iron skillet. Yeah, that's the way to do it.

Butter, garlic, you know, baste it a little bit. Just keep flipping it. Yeah, that's exactly how I do it. Like in my book, I have a recipe for it. And I also didn't like with the like remaining juices, I just add rice to it. And then like rice. Yeah, because like the fats all like, well, once you take the steak out like the remaining stuff if you haven't burnt it um add rice to it and then like cook it and make like a crispy rice

cooked rice yeah like cooked rice yeah and then you just let it sit and you just let it sit until it browns and it becomes like it's in there yeah there's like a turmeric crispy rice yeah what do your thanksgivings look like like do you have a signature like i fucking hate thanksgiving meal why like you don't like turkey on a sandwich i think uh he likes deli meat turkey not to offend not to offend more people but i i think uh turkey's peasant food and really they're expensive yeah because it's fucking huge you know it's expensive because it's feeding 40 people. That's true. It's just like if Thanksgiving is about indulgence and eating some of your favorite foods, the last thing I want is fucking turkey and cranberry sauce.

That's true. And stuffing. I don't like cranberry sauce. Yeah, I just fucking hate Thanksgiving. I'd rather have steak. I brought barbecue ribs once to Thanksgiving meal.giving i mean that sounds good to me like our family doesn't really care about the turkey necessarily we do it because you know we're trying to be super american but i mean i would prefer a steak and like you know ribs too but i funny enough don't try to avoid cooking thanksgiving

as much as possible with my family um but eventually they always sort of like they eventually like i think their new tactic the last few years have been like to not plan anything and then it's like well ron like we don't have anything i'm like okay fine i'll just whip something up and then i like end up being in the kitchen for like three days and then my nieces are helping me and kind of like fucking up the recipes and everything turns into shit and it's like not good because you know my nieces are super cute, but you know, they're like not doing it correctly. And so it's just like, you know,

the food's always like subpar and like last minute. If you lined up to the buffet and it was a, let's say you're at a potluck. I hate buffets. Like a potluck. Thank you. But it's a bunch of stuff that you don't really like, but you're trying to make a good impression. Would you still try a little bit of everybody else's?

Totally. Interesting, Nick. 100%. No. Nick did not do that at his girlfriend's Thanksgiving. We had an incident called Meatball Gate, where it was a potluck-style Thanksgiving. Nick chose to bring meatballs to Thanksgiving. No, no, no. I was... No, no, no. Natalie

signed me up to make meatballs. She's like, oh, Nick makes good meatballs. He'll bring meatballs. Okay. So I brought meatballs. Okay. And I made meatballs for, I don't know, 30 people, right? That's a lot of meatballs.

I didn't recommend making meatballs. And I made a nice homemade sauce with the meatballs, which I love. What kind of homemade sauce? Like a sweet barbecue sauce or like a- No, like a tomato sauce. Meat sauce. Oh, like a tomato sauce. Yeah, like with those type of tomatoes peeled.

San Marzano. San Marzano marzano like you know just chop up some onions and garlic okay and then put them like a marinara a marinara yeah and i understand why uh i came to a thanksgiving with a bunch of people who fucking love thanksgiving food so like no one was eating it this is natalie's like just extended family extended family and uh it was like i don't like and i don't there and you didn't try any of their impression i don't give a shit i'm sorry i'm not unapologetic i just don't care i just like i do not care i'm probably a little more polite than nick is you know i'll put on my plate and try it and i'll still eat it okay and i even if i'm like barfing in my mouth i'll still swallow it

to swallow the people yeah i'll swallow the puke along with the food i'm like but like that's the sauce but as someone who who who is someone who loves food is it an experience and something to connect with i just don't subscribe to like eating things i don't enjoy right like i just don't want to and i don't care and i'm sorry sorry grandma's 90 and she made stuffing but like you know and so anyways i just had a plate full of meatballs and i'm sorry sorry grandma's 90 and she made stuffing but like you know and so anyways i just had a plate full of meatballs and i tried i ate my own meatballs and then i and then i had some turkey where that's meatball gate because that's controversial oh yeah the whole and they're and they're from the south and so that's even that's like going to an asian person's family and like not eating their food yeah because like manners and like politeness matters in that part

of the country totally and i didn't give a shit and um so and then and then the next day they had like another get together and they had were you not invited they're like don't bring nick but it was like i don't want his meatballs they had this other rule that the kids go first whatever and you're like elbowing the kids out of the way and they had like a sundae dessert like bar you know which I love a good sundae and they brought it all out and I'm just like fucking waiting and none of the kids win so I'm like I don't give a shit

I'm going up and I made myself a sundae so I was like two strikes oh my gosh you're like almost gonna be like ostracized one more strike one more thanksgiving one more potluck I hope Nick's wedding reception is just meatballs. A meatball cake.

Yeah. A meatball like appy meatball entree. I do feel like a diamond ring takes away at least one strike. That's true. I'm not worried. I'm not.

I'm not. I think you might wipe the slate clean with that one. That's really funny that you did that though. I mean I applaud you for doing that.

Like really sticking to your guns you know. Yeah. I'm trying to I'm trying to normalize eating the foods you like. I subscribe to that normally. And, like, even if I paid a shit ton of money for, like, a dish and it doesn't turn out well, I won't send it back because I think that's rude.

But I just might not eat it. And if the waiter or someone asks me, like, I'll be like, I'm so full. Or something like that. But at a family potluck or a family thing thing i will at least put some of it on my plate and like eat it in front of them and tell them it's good yeah yeah like i would i would feed them because i respect dogs too much to do that but you know like i will just eat it and be like this is so good you know like just to be nice because i mean like there's no harm in that you, but I also get where you're coming from. You know, you want to like those unnecessary calories of food you don't want.

But it's not even the calories. I know you're just like you just don't want to eat it. I get it. I get it. I'm intrigued by the sending it back. Is there any situation where you think it is acceptable to send back your meal, particularly like for people who are on kind of like a first date situation? Like what's the chef's perspective?

A first date. I if I went on a first date, it's been 15 years since I've of like a first date situation? Like what's the chef's perspective? A first date. I, if I went on a first date, it's been 15 years since I've gone on a first date or any date, you know, not any day, go on dates with a husband, me like first date.

And I feel like if I went on a date, we don't love each other. Yeah. We don't actually like each other. No, he's the best. We actually, that's like the one thing that's like amazing.

But if I went on a first date with someone and they sent the food back, I would, that would be such a turnoff to me. Cause I'm like, Oh my God, what else is this person going to complain about? You know, like,

and I'm a complainer. I complain about everything, but that is the one thing I won't complain about is like, you know, especially on a first date, you don't want to make that impression. Right. Cause you're just,

you want to present your best self and they, you make them fall in love with you and then you reveal your bad traits. And then hopefully the love and the, you the you know the the chemicals in your brain the oxytocin will overcome that but i but even then even not on a first date i just don't send stuff back because i think uh barring that it's like atrocious you know i mean like this is inedible i've only done it once in my life actually oh there was only one time that i remember sending a steak back because it tasted like completely wrong. Like that they had like something was off because the second steak they sent off,

but if it tastes like they had like dropped something plasticky on it and cooked it with it and it tasted like tire, like rubber tires, that was the only time I've ever sent anything back. Everything else that isn't good. I'm just like, you know, if it's edible and I just don't like it, I'm just going to like eat some of it and be like, I'm so full. I'll take it home. Like, I'm going to save it later and then just throw it in the trash. Marry, fuck, kill. Olive oil, salt, pepper.

I would kill salt if I could only because it's not good for you. But you need it, obviously. I eat a lot of salt. I'm salt heavy. That's what's going to kill you, not biting your nails. But coming from a chef, people are like, you need to season, you need to season, which is true. This is, like, I'm revealing my thoughts on salt. That's a hard, that's a hard marry fuck kill because, like, you kind of need all of them.

Okay. I would marry olive oil because I think olive oil is, like, necessary, essential. And healthy. It's good for you. And that's, like, a long-term relationship whereas like uh maybe like kill pepper if I had to and then uh fuck salt I guess but I'd fuck salt I'd fuck the salt I'd fuck salt every day that would hurt after a while like are we doing like yeah blakey salt or kosher salt or salt no it's just salt's like aura okay yeah if salt was a person metaphysical yeah yeah okay yeah i don't even know how that would look

like yeah i probably yeah that would be my thing kill pepper fuck salt and marry olive oil i know in your book you have a whole section on hot sauces for everyone listening like do you have any hot takes any controversial ones or just like a hot sauce that you would specifically go to bat for that you think people don't appreciate i'm like an equal opportunity hot sauce lover so i'll eat all kinds of hot sauce i actually saw one the other day i do love a hot sauce right it's good and it's like it's like peppers and salt um but i saw the other day there was like there's this italian brand i don't even know what it's called but i saw the. I almost like took it from the restaurant, but I was like, that's weird.

And it's been used. But I took a picture of it, but I've never seen it before. So I'm going to try it. But I mean, Cholula is my favorite, but I don't think there's like a controversial hot sauce. Right. Everyone kind of has their own take. There's Louisiana style hot sauce. But I would say like Cholula and then Sambolik.

Do you think you would thrive with like the hot wings challenge? Like how spicy can you get? I do feel like I would thrive with the hot wings challenge. I think I would do okay. That's a dream of mine. Yeah. To eat it. I feel like I would do really well.

I would get super sweaty. Like I just sweat. I love a tear when I'm eating hot sauce. Do you? If it's not making my eyes water, it's not hot enough. So then what sauces make your eyes water? Like what sauces are, what like sauces on the market are making your eyes water? Cholula.

It makes you tear? I just put so much on. That you just like make yourself cry from it. I just like spicy food. Yeah. I do too. I'm not trying to make, I mean, I'm being slightly sarcastic, but I like a burn.

I take everything literally. I like a good burn. I love a good hamburger. Love a good cheeseburger. But it has to be made correctly. Well, that's, so like I'm good at grilling like a burger patty, but I tried making over the weekend,

like, you know, your smash burger kind of style burger. Didn't really turn out. How'd you do it? That's like super pretty simple. Well, I didn't want the house to stink. So I brought the cast iron grill and then I put it on the grill. Yeah.

Yeah. To cook it outside. I get that. I get the stinking of the house. So that didn't really work out. But I don't know. I just, it just didn't really. I hate a grilled burger.

Like hate a grilled burger. So how, what's the secret to like a good, how would you cook a burger at home? How do you cook a burger? When I cook a burger at home, it's like, um,

like a patty and you, you, you like smack, like you set the patty as like thin as you possibly can. Almost like little, like almost to the point where like, if you were to smash it any thinner it would be like you like get holes in it how much how much are we talking

like a quarter pound per ball no i like probably like an eighth of a pound because we're going for super thin because you're trying to caramelize the gray yeah barring that your bun is like super huge but like if you're doing with you're working like a normal size bun, you want to do like, like I would say an eighth of a, because I would stack it. I would do like two of these, right? And the goal is to like really get as much surface area because you're really trying to caramelize

like the outside. That's where you're getting all the flavor. So like to get that super flavorful bun, you want to like obviously salt and pepper it, at least salt it. And then you like just smash it. The reason why it's a smash burger is because you're you're pressing down with a spatula or something like that to

get every sort of crack and crevice caramelized you know if you just let it sit there without smashing it down you're not going to get all those flavors so if you like smash it down you hold it let it caramelize and you flip it and do the same thing on the other side that's where you're getting all that flavor and that's sort of why it's like a smash burger and then the bun is like super important you can't get one of those like janky like you know over the counter buns you got to get like one of those brioche buns or a potato bun that's like pretty much like disintegrates in your mouth once you put it in and you have to use american cheese like i mean cheddar is good but like american cheese that processed shit is literally how you get that like super salty, super like fake cheese thing.

Like, you know, you have to use iceberg lettuce. You have to use like a beefsteak tomato or a Roma tomato. And you have to, for me, you have to use mayonnaise and ketchup and relish. You put mayonnaise on your burger. I love mayonnaise. I'll get the side where I dip it extra. Like, I love mayonnaise. You and Natalie would really enjoy your cheddar burgers enjoy yeah yeah it sounds like it would our texting office hours caller is here yeah let's do that

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award-winning series. The New York Times is calling it a murder mystery with clothes to die for and Vox adding that it should be your new reality TV obsession. We are certainly obsessed. Stream every episode of Traders Now only on Peacock. How's it going? episode of Traders Now, only on Peacock. How's it going? Hi, my name is Maggie. I'm 26. I basically need advice because someone that I've been interested in is constantly flaking on me, and I don't know if I should give them another shot or just call it quits. Okay. Why do you think you should keep giving it a shot? What makes you so excited about this person besides the fact that they constantly flake on you? And I want to know what you mean by flake on you.

Yeah. You know, like define what that like specific instances, what that means, because that will dictate sort of how you handle it. Um, so basically, it's one of the first people that i've been like really talking to since my last breakup and i've gone on dates since then but then i just think about this person over and over again like i don't know she she offers more than my ex did so i think that pulls me in a little bit um i mean the fact that that's the first thing that's the first thing out of your mouth um it seems like more of a you thing than a her thing but the fact that you're the first thing that's out of your mouth. It seems like more of a you thing than a her thing.

But the fact that you're the first thing you say you like about her is that she just offers you a little bit more than your ex, which is understandable. I mean, the vegetarian, the reason I liked her so much is because, you know, way back when, when I was very Catholic and going to church and I fought with my very first girlfriend about like, she didn't like going to church with me. And that was such a big deal. And then the new girlfriend wanted to go to church with me. It was like, great. Right. You know, everything else hated about her. But at the, in, in the beginning of our relationship, that was such a big deal that it made like, I just put that on a pedestal. Just remember like that your last, your ex is not like that your last your ex is not a bar like your ex is not a bar your ex is an example of someone that doesn't work for you so for me it's kind of like you should learn all the things that you did not like for your ex but also set sort of

standards for yourself like what do you want in the next person and not necessarily use the last person as like the lowest comment like the lowest bar that they just need to jump that bar because your ex could have just been like a really shitty person or like just someone that really was a horrible fit for you. And I think like when you're dating, it's more about like, this is what I want in this person. What are my sort of non-negotiables?

And if someone doesn't reach those, you move on. Like you have to like know your worth. I think that I always tell people that like you are worth everything like you are worth everything you want and that's just the truth and it's better to be alone and happy than with someone else and unhappy and so like for me i feel like if someone's flaking on you and questioning your self-worth because it sounds like they're making you feel not special and not important and like that's gonna feel like shit and they're setting the precedent for that for the future and it's kind of like yeah is this person better than me

yeah but like is it what i deserve and you're like no i'm actually fucking awesome i'm amazing i deserve the best and like that's sort of where you should start right and then everything else yeah it sounds like you're excited about the mystery of her but what but let's get into I know that's what I was also wondering yeah so how many dates have you been on it's just the chase probably but what how many dates have you been on with her just one just one just one

okay and we also have some of the text messages for the back and forth because I know part of what you were saying is that she might flake but she does act very apologetic how many how many times has she flaked? If you had one good date, you had one good date. Yes. And you left that date kind of like excited.

It's not so much like flaking. It's more we plan to hang out and then something comes up and then we never reschedule it. Okay. Well, Ronda, you want to do a dramatic reading with me? Can I do a dramatic? I don't want to. Is it okay if we do a dramatic reading, Maggie? I can smell the disappointment from here, but sure.

Who do you want to be, Maggie or the Flaker? I'll be the Flaker. Can I ask you a random question? Go for it. We've been talking for a bit and I really enjoyed our date, but I just wanted you to know your intentions with it all. Just nervous. we've been talking for a bit and i really enjoyed our date but i just wanted you to know your intentions with it all just nervous i've been bugging you a lot and that's just the last thing i want to do and this is not how you talk maggie i know that this is a very dramatic

reading how we talk i'm trying to win an oscar here yeah um well i was also i think it's important to note that she did not respond right away to that. It seems like maybe the next day at 4.55 p.m. It doesn't say when you sent that, but it seems as though it was the next day she responded. You sent it at night, it looks like, and she sent it late afternoon. Yeah, so you sent that text at 9.45 p.m. This is 4.55 p.m. the next day, almost 24 hours. Hi. I'm so sorry I didn't see this until now.

And I promise you're not bugging me. Exclamation point. I like talking to you a lot. And I know I may not seem like that just with how busy everything is. I guess I don't have intentions either way, if that makes sense. Like to me, kind of whatever happens, happens. You respond at 509. I like that you're responding quickly.

One thing I always encourage people is like, don't like play the game other people play play the game you want to play as in like so if you want someone to respond to you in a timely manner you do that too and if they're not reciprocating in that way then your communication styles might not be the same you know what i mean yeah but it's gonna be your point if you match the energy that you don't like you're setting that precedent that oh i don't we don't need to 100 respond quickly or make it a priority. We can just kind of see it, forget about it, get back to it a day later, and then make up this white lie that like, oh, I totally just saw this. Totally. Yeah.

One thing to remember. I am guilty of doing that, though. Of what? Of matching the game? Of waiting because she waited. Yeah. Well, here you did it did it i don't want to seem too eager no i mean you're not i mean everyone has their phones on them nowadays

it's just the truth everyone's phone is on their sides you waited 15 minutes so yeah it wasn't even that long um okay yes that makes sense i want to go with the flow and just see what happens too i overthink easily and just get in my own head. So I need to ask, haha, I know you're super busy. So, and that's like the cutoff of that interaction. And was that the most recent one? No, there was two separate times that I didn't realize I asked, can I ask you a random question twice?

But two separate times where it was like the same kind of response. Yeah. I don't know what ronnie has to say about this but if i'm giving a real-time note here i just i don't think she needs to know all your insecurities about this relationship so quickly agreed just like i'm in my head i think i do that because i'm a sweet. Like you come off like a very sweet person. You're like a very sweet person. I mean, from my just initial thoughts,

like you're such a nice, sweet person and you deserve another nice, sweet person. I think when someone uses the words busy, that is like setting the precedent that they're not going to be around that as much as you want them to be. You know what I mean? Otherwise, if they aren't going to set a precedent, they want you to know that they're going to be around that as much as you want them to be you know i mean otherwise if they aren't

going to set a precedent they want you to know that they're going to be around and reachable yeah the only thing i would say to that though is is that you you guys have only been on one date and you really had a fun time it sounds like she had a nice time too but you're in your head and you've put her on a pedestal because you're comparing her to your ex. And so you have this like added excitement, this added optimism and enthusiasm. She might have been single for a while and maybe more comfortable of kind of being alone. And she's feeling like less angst and pressure. And you could be just projecting that onto her where it's just like, oh oh my this person really

likes me after one date you're not trying to push her away but it could just it could come across as a little much just like well i like you too and you're responding like oh i know that's great i just mentioned my head about you and you're read that you're like oh shit like fuck i don't this person really likes me and if they like if they had a nice time with you they could feel that pressure no one wants to like hurt people all right you know and like disappoint people and so i think if you show too many of your cards early on before they have a chance to really feel comfortable with you uh they could pull away just because they could say well i don't know this person just likes me more

than them and i'm just on the same level yeah the truth is you don't know her anymore she knows you you've just decided that you like her before she's decided she likes you and you have no reason to like her more than she likes you because you don't know anything about her really very sound advice yeah um thanks ron for yeah I actually really respected that not actually I mean I do I did actually is a word that gets used a lot with the show you know and I think it's an

underdog what is what is the review it was surprisingly insightful and substantive shocking actually against all odds Insightful and substantive. Shocking, actually. Against all odds. But I appreciate it.

I appreciate what you just said. All right, let's continue. Yeah. Wait, so then she responded, hey, yes. It sounded like you must have said something, right? You must have said something. And she goes, hey, yes. Yeah, that was like, I think that one was the one that I did the first time.

Okay. so it was two separate times and i think the reason why i did is because our communication is so like limited that i was like in my should i keep putting my time into this person and like wanting to make an effort to meet with them again or should i just call it quits and move on? And so I didn't know how to see where she stood. In my gut reading, well, let's keep going. Yeah. So go ahead. I started with a just curious.

Just curious. If you have any interest in still talking, getting to know each other, I know it's hard with our schedules and such, but just wanted to see where your head's at. Absolutely no pressure either way. Sorry, yes, I do. But I understand it hasn't been very fair to you. I had a terrible week at work and had to work 80 hours,

so I wasn't really able to put my attention on my phone or anything. What does she do? Do you know? What is her job? She's law enforcement. Oh. So she works nights, and it's completely opposite schedules. So like daytime, she's kind of available?

When she's not sleeping. When she's not sleeping. Okay. No, no, don't be sorry. I know I've been super annoying about hanging out i feel bad for that i haven't been giving a great impression i just wanted to ask to see if we were on the same page i was gonna say i have a thought on that but more importantly i'm so sorry to hear that you had a terrible week 80 hours is so much i can't even

imagine how have you been feeling i'm here if you need anything i would just i would like not be like i'm being super annoying yes you're not being annoying i'm criticizing yourself i know i need to stop doing that. She'll let you know. Because I also think it's like this protective thing and like you want to prove that you're self-aware of like hey like just so you know like I'm on the same page and it's like you're kind of

it's hard because it's like then you end up telling on yourself a lot where it's like you want to get ahead of the narrative and be like oh no don't worry and like almost like accuse yourself of something so that way you can defend yourself from it but it's like she hasn't accused you of anything Amanda actually really

shocked I came out of your mouth that was I have a question for you in your last relationship did you check in in the relationship did you check in with your partner as much as you do did with her? Because I find it almost kind of ironic and funny that early on in dating, if someone really likes someone, they don't know a lot.

They'll do stuff like this. What are we? Have you check in? And like, you have no really reason to check in as much with this person. You kind of, as we've discussed, don't really know her. You've been on one date. Like, I understand you want to hang out with her again but like you're you're kind of talking to her as if you're in a relationship with her and yet when people get in relationships they often check in a lot less because they don't want to rock the boat you know

do you natalie not check in with that well i mean at this point we do all the time but i've but like i find that people often like once they decide they like someone we're in a relationship it's like i don't want to ask the questions the answers i don't want to know because you know i don't want to upset you right and i don't want to upset this right and now that i've confirmed that you like me that's good enough that's interesting i find that like backwards because i feel like once you're in a relationship you feel safer i think i checked in a lot in my last relationship because I wasn't feeling like validated and I wasn't feeling like loved in the way that I wanted to. So I was constantly checking in to see.

Oh, I mean, that's great. Yeah. No, that's clearly why like, you know, you shouldn't you shouldn't feel insecure in your relationship. Like a relationship should make you feel loved. That is the whole point of a relationship. I feel aside from like obvious things but like if you're in a relationship you should feel loved and validated and like you should feel like a queen you know like that's ultimately if the person doesn't then i mean that feels like

it forebodes a pretty grim future yeah so maybe it's just taking it from that relationship and how long has it been since you saw her a little over a month oh over a month oh you haven't had a second date since since oh i mean i feel like that in and of itself and then things kept coming up i feel like that in and of itself is like a red flag right because i mean the point is like kind of busy who's like well the cop i i i'm i'm in between i'm just in between i that's why i'm like how do you know she's busy because she tells you she works a lot and like like she'll randomly text me like a few days after our last conversation and like last night she texted me and like asked

me how my week was and then she got randomly called into work on her day off. So it was like a short spurt of talking. But then she's working a lot. Here's what I think you should do. And then I'd love for you to chime in. She's not your girlfriend. You're not in a relationship with her. You're just investing too much of your emotional energy in someone that you're not in a relationship with

that you've only been on one date with. I don't think you need to do anything drastic. I think you need to stop pursuing her this way. I think you just need to pull back. You've made it clear you want to hang out with her. She's busy. Fine. So start dating other people. I don't think you need to close the door here, but I think you need to stop pining over her and putting her on this pedestal. And I'm guessing you've probably dropped off the grid when it comes to dating other people and invested all your emotional energy thinking about this person and talking to her and texting back and forth. I'd kind of get back out there. And listen,

if she reaches out to you and says, let's go out, I think it's fine to go out. But I think kind of go in a little bit more, not necessarily guarded, but just, you know, she's busy. If nothing else, she might be just a really nice, wonderful person. That's just like too busy to prioritize you. You're already got out of a relationship where you didn't feel prioritized. So I would caution you to really invest in someone who just might not have the time for you. But either way, you've made it clear, let her pursue you and let her reach out to you and not just check in. You can respond, but you don't have to ask her how she's feeling. You don't have to stop asking her if you're annoying her. Just respond to her. Give her the energy, I guess. Maybe we're kind of

contradicting ourselves, but I would let her reach out to you and then let her make a plan. And I don't think you need to cut her off or anything. She's not your girlfriend. You're not even in a situationship with her. There's someone you want to date with. So get back on the app, start dating, and if she has an

interest in you, she'll feel that energy of you pulling away and she'll maybe check in and and say let's get out and she'll carve out some time for you i just think you need to stop fixating on this person because it sounds like you had one great date and then just said i'm going for this right because i've gone on other dates but then i don't get as excited and then i'm like okay so the gay relations can be like that you know I mean gay relationships can be very much like one day and you're like sold

and you're married you got like the trailer and you're going home depot and you're moving in together is it only gay relationships though? I mean straight relationships as well I've done that a hundred times especially like for situations where there's like two women dating like I found and I know that a lot of my other queer friends have found that there's like such a shared

foundation of like oh like having that like infrastructure of communication that like women tend to have with one another. And then also shared queer experience that is just like very easy to like be on the same page very quickly with women in a way that like with men, it's more of a slow burn. I find. Correct. Yeah. Like I think with two men dating, it might not always be the same way, but two women. And is that a thought of as a good thing? Cause it almost, to me sounds like it seems like a good thing, but it's almost like a false sense of security because you're able to build camaraderie right from the start.

Yeah. But without really knowing to know them. I mean, Maggie, feel free to like contradict or like disagree with me on this one, but I feel like there's the trope of like you hauling, which is like the verb that they use in like two women are like usually like lesbians be you hauling like they're like get to know each other like kind of dive right in or super excited like moving in

together ASAP that kind of situation and I think it's not like necessarily like upheld as like oh this is an amazing practice and it's usually used kind of like jokingly like not in like a this is a terrible thing to do but more in like let's call a spade a spade like yeah people have this tendency let's label it let's like name it out and so it's not necessarily like a super insulting thing to say it's also not necessarily like a praised thing right but maggie feel free to disagree with me on this yeah no i agree with that yeah yeah i get where you're coming from nick your advice is super sound and then i also get where maggie sort of has this like she has immediate connection. But I feel like if it's not reciprocated, like, that's where the U-hauling doesn't work because it's not being reciprocated. You know,

I feel like generally when we joke about the lesbians, you know, getting a U-haul moving in together, it's really just because both of them are on the same page and they're both ready to do it. And that's when it works, at least in the moment. Who knows that they later find out they don't work together. But I feel like in your case, she's just on the same page as you. And you have to remember relationships are a two-way street. So if you're not getting what you want out of it, you can't just constantly be serving someone else and giving what they want. If it doesn't work for you, in the end, it doesn't work for you. and it's not the type of relationship you want and like nick says like you know you don't have to cut her out or anything um and that ultimately is like your own choice if you feel

it's best for you to like cut her out and that's what's best for your mental health and your emotional health then you should do what is best for you but it just sounds like you're kind of feeling like shit from it. And it's not your fault. And it's not their fault. I always tell people like, in relationships, you gotta remember, it's like so hard because you're combining two lives. There's so many factors that are involved, the right time, the right place, the geographical location, emotional state, mental state, like everything, even physical, like physical health matters matters like everyone is in a different spot in their lives and two people coming together is literally so crazy to me like for two people

to just like join lives so you have to always remember it's not about you you're not the problem but in this case it just might not be like the right fit and there is someone out there for you there's so many people in the world there's so many people in the world. There's so many fish in the pond. It's like, if this doesn't work, there will be someone for you. But I always thought in my head, it's like, if you're wasting your time trying to pine and get this person to like you, the next person, the other person who might actually be the one for you, you could miss that chance. So it's kind of like, it's not like speed dating, but of like at the same time like know your worth know you're amazing know you're hot know you're just amazing of a person and just if this isn't working for you you bow out gracefully you know you kind of move on to the next person this person could very well be the one for you and like

reappear later on but to hold on to that energy is like so like it's like holding your breath and it's exhausting right you're just like like every day you check your phone is like so like, it's like holding your breath and it's exhausting, right? You're just like, like every day you check your phone, did she text me? And it's just like, no, you shouldn't feel that way. You should have a text if this person was into you. Yeah. It has helped me in a way because I used to be like that where I was always checking my phone, like, are they going to answer? Are they going to answer? And now like, I know she doesn't answer for a couple of days. So then I'm not constantly worried. And like whenever she texts me, I'm just like, oh, she texted me. So, it helps me in that way. But then at the same time, I'm like over her for two days and then she texts me and I'm like, okay, now we're back. Well, it's like a roller coaster. And that's kind of like, that is not emotionally

healthy to be put on a roller coaster. For instance, and not to bring my own experience up, but like when I met my husband, it was much like it was easy like it was always reciprocated and it should just feel easy because that sets the precedent for the rest of your relationship and it's if it's if it's hard at the beginning it's gonna continue being hard because relationships only get harder as you get older and as they mature and so if it's already hard at the beginning, then it's just, it only gets hard, right? Yeah, I just think you're just spending way too much emotional energy on someone you're not in a relationship with.

You're just, you're really emotionally invested in her. And even if you like get over her not responding right away, as soon as she does, it just, you get triggered and you're sucked in. And we can get fixated. This is kind of remind me of two different stories i experienced well one i i got really you know i crushed on this one girl and i was really you know i really pursued her and i went to this event that i knew she was going to and we met up and then one of my friends brought this uh her his girlfriend and this other girl that i met i was going to and we met up. And then one of my friends brought his girlfriend

and this other girl that I met. I was like, hey, but I was just really fixated on this other girl, right? And nothing really happened. And then like a few months later, I ran in to my buddy's girlfriend's friend and I didn't even recognize her. And I was like, oh my God, this girl is so beautiful.

And like, I didn't even remember meeting her because I was so fixated on this other girl. So, I mean, I literally didn't, I literally just couldn't see anyone else. You know, I met this person, I talked to this person and I didn't even remember meeting this gorgeous person because I was so just fixated on pursuing this one- Nick is pointing to me.

Other person, yeah. I am that gorgeous person. Can you tell his hand movement? It was this. And I'm like, Nick, look at me. I just wanted to tell you. It's me. So yeah, you can get fixated on that.

And another story, earlier on in my life, I pursued this one person. At the time, I got really excited about this. I was like, I had been single for a long time. I had met this person, was very physically attracted to them. I felt the good chemistry. And I was like, oh, this is great. And then they seemed very flaky for a really long time. And ultimately, they had gotten out of the relationship and they just weren't in the right time. Years later, we reconnected and dated. But it just might not be a fit from a compatibility

standpoint in time and energy. So it just goes back to, I think you just recognizing that you got out of a relationship where you already didn't feel prioritized. You spent a lot of time being confused about their feelings for you and not feeling enough. And now you are investing a lot in someone who's already making you feel that same feeling, even if it's not necessarily their fault, but it's kind of, at this point, you need to recognize that they're just not making themselves available to you. So I just think you just need to back off a little bit. I don't think you need to break up with them. You're not in a relationship. You don't need to be like, hey, listen,

this isn't working out. Right, that would be dramatic as well. Yeah, just kind of back off, stop apologizing, stop checking in. If you've made it clear you're excited about her and if she wants to go out of her way and say, hey, I have a day off finally, I'd really like to take you out, then I think it's okay to say yes at this point, but just slow yourself down, you know?

And just, if you feel confused confused that is a red flag not a reason to get like sparky and excited and be like oh my god this person makes me feel the the intangible feeling which is ultimately there's them just confusing the shit out of you right uh it's just chemicals yeah in your brain you're all excited because they feel unobtainable. And then you get in a relationship with them and you're like, you make me feel bad. You know, so. That's ultimately what it sounds like she's doing is making you feel bad. I mean, like,

and that's, I don't know. I don't like that for you. She could come around. I just think you need to make, you need to let her come around and you need to stop chasing her. So I think officially leave on read. No text. We're not going to text in this texting office hours.

I think you can reply. But yeah, I don't, I wouldn't reach out to her now. Yeah, you don't have to be a bitch and be like, just ghost the person. But you can start to like, you know, be a little bit more short with your answers. Yeah. And then if she checks in and be like, oh, you know, I just, you seemed really busy. I just. Yeah.

Yeah. I just didn't, you just didn't have time for this so i just kind of moved on yeah but i was gonna say like but she shouldn't like you back because you're now playing the game of like cat and mouse like that's like you know it shouldn't be like she only is interested in you now because you're the one who's unavailable like if you like each other ultimately you will make time for it to happen you will make time for each other just to play devil's advocate i'm wondering what you think of i i only say that because if i put myself in your friend's shoes the other other woman i'm just thinking she could just be like all right i had a really nice date and this other person she's really excited about

me and like really pushy and i am busy so i just don't know yeah you know and it might take a few you know strikes of the match so to speak or a few dates for like the two people to finally realize i think we actually i think there is something there yeah and i just yeah i just i just don't think you're she's not there yet and you've decided you are and i think that's the disconnect yeah there's i mean like when you met Natalie, did you kind of know off the, off the start or like, or is it more of a slow burn? She lived across the country.

Yeah. And so we were just kind of fuck buddies for nine months and then she tried to make it more, make it more. And I resisted and she, she played the game well. Okay. And now you're in it to win it. Yeah.

Okay. So, I mean, yeah, so i mean yeah so that that and that that's a very different story than my relationship my relationship was like i went on a date with my husband doug and it was like we both kind of knew from the very start but it wasn't like you know you hauling it we were well i guess we kind of did six months later but i guess in a way like it was very easy and prior to that you, I'd been in a really tumultuous relationship, which was like constantly like the person was constantly like threatening to break up with me all the time. And it was like, I hate that. I'm like, that's a rule I always have.

Like, don't threaten to break up with your partner unless you're ready to put that little seed in their head, because that is not a good seed. So that, yeah, ours was a little, like was different than your story with Natalie is that kind of new from the start. And it was easy. Like, and I had been in a ton of, I guess, situationships or even situations like yours where I decided I really liked the person

and wanted to see them. And they weren't. They were kind of giving me little crumbs here and there. And I think ultimately I realized that I don't want crumbs. I want the whole entire cake. And that's what I deserve.

You know, like you're like, yo, I want the whole cake because I'm a fucking king or queen. You know, I'm like, I deserve that. And it's not to be like this could turn anything, but I'm just always in the mindset, like know your worth, know what you want. And if you're not getting it, you move on, you move on. There will be someone who will give that to you. And when we started dating super easy and I couldn't agree with you more about, you know, knowing your worth. So yeah, I would just, even whether it's with her or while you're

dating, set the expectation with yourself about what you want or the energy you want and how you want people to treat you. And until someone shows you their willingness to do that, I wouldn't invest a lot of your kind of emotional energy wondering about them and think, cause it's just like sucks the life out of you. I think it's great that you put yourself out there, but like once you put yourself out there, I think the ball's in their court for you to see how they respond and how they respond. You should take fairly literally and you know, whether, whether they mean to or not, she is showing you, she's just not right now. She she might like you but she's not willing to make you a priority and that's why that's it's so very confusing this early on because when people say when you're like on a different page

in terms of like how much you like someone when someone says i like you we interpret how we want to interpret it right now right oh you like me well like you, so you must like me as much as I like you. Right. And they could be thinking, well, man, I like you. So it's very kind of vague, and I think that's where things can get very misleading. They should show you how much they like you,

and if their actions, if they don't match what you interpret it, then I would go through their, I would read their actions over just the i like you part because she keeps saying i like you which is why you keep avoiding letting her go right she's always i mean she's always she'll reach out to me so she must be thinking about me as it goes through my head right of course that makes total sense and she probably does once in a while but she's not thinking about you as much as you want her to and it's still not making her go you know what i really want to see this person again i want to carve out my time i want

you know she's not working 24 7 yeah exactly she exactly she's not working 24 24 7 did you guys kiss no okay that's why i don't know why i'm so stuck on it because i've gone on multiple dates since then it just is like friend vibes and I'm like okay so but I have to realize she struck an itch and of like some sort of chemistry that kind of probably triggered you and you really and you probably been obsessing over that yeah

I just I think I was just holding on to that because I haven't gotten it from anyone else so then I just went too far with it you didn't go far you didn't do anything but it's just hard because it's like it is like online dating is like exhausting and it's demoralizing. And especially when you're going through a breakup, like it's just it becomes like such a to do and a task. And then you're also like, oh, but this is dating. It should be fun. So you feel guilty that it's not fun.

And like it is like, you know, it's kind of few and far between that you find people you're excited about. You know, it seems like she's not really worthy of your excitement and she's actively making preventing you from getting excited about other people. And so as much as it's like, yeah, it sucks to get back in the trenches like you can do it and you found her like you didn't know she exists and then you found her. And so like the next person like you might not know that they exist, but you will find them. You should feel really excited about someone and vice versa. Like it shouldn't be suppressed or like you know uh stunted it should just be like i'm excited and i'm being allowed to feel excited kind of piggybacking on what ronnie said earlier about like don't let your ex be the bar also don't let like you said oh i kept dating and and nothing

like stuck you know just because you went on like three other dates with three other people who, you know, ended up being fine. It doesn't make this girl amazing, right? You just, you went on three or a couple of dates. Most dates aren't what you're going to want them to be. They shouldn't be. If everyone was amazing, no one would be amazing. And so, you know, just going on a couple of dates and having it not be as sparky as this one doesn't mean like you need to really go for this one. Maybe she's not your person and these other people aren't your person and you just have to be a little bit more patient than you want to be. Totally. Yeah. It is a numbers game in a way. Like it's about, you know, it's not, it's not the same story for everyone but it for

most people it's a numbers game you're just kind of it's just kind of like having to go kiss a lot of frogs to get to your prince if you're going on this case you know bunch of dates and you're liking most of them you're doing it wrong you should have your expectations your boundaries and most people should be like nice people that you like kind of vibe with, but ultimately just aren't your person because we want to meet that person that we really connect with. So you have to have some of those standards and most people shouldn't meet those standards so that when you do, you know, it's like worth your, your energy. If you're out there going on 10 dates and you're liking eight of them. Yeah. I don't you've i think you want to be liked more than your you know correct yeah that it that does make sense yeah because eight out of ten can't fit your parameters yeah i mean unless your parameters are super low but then you wouldn't be questioning it you know what i mean you just be like oh then your parameter is liking them liking you usually but yeah i think i think you going on 10 dates and you only really vibing with two or three i think is a healthier outcome it's just really frustrating that's a lot

of people yeah that's a lot too but then yeah and it's like also them vibing back again like the more people you go on dates with the higher chance you'll find someone that you actually like or vibe or you may just not be ready to go on dates. You might just focus spending time with your friends and your family and just having fun and sort of like making sure that, you know, you're like happy and secure in yourself. And it's like the it's like such such cliche advice, but it's like so true. It's like RuPaul. How are you going to love someone?

How is someone else going to love you if you don't love yourself? I don't even know if that's I'm saying that correctly. Some version of that. It's true. RuPaul, how are you going to love someone? How is someone else going to love you if you don't love yourself? I don't even know if I'm saying that correctly. Some version of that. It's true. Yeah. And it's like, ultimately, and it sounds like, you know, through your text message, you just you're still kind of insecure and off kilter from your last relationship because that must have done a number to you.

And it's like, you know, jumping into the next one might not be great. Not to say it can't work out, but obviously it doesn't sound like this person is going to be the one that, you know, really, you know, the one. Yeah. I'd love for you to, to Ronnie's point, I'd love for you when you, you know, whoever that person is, you really get in a relationship with, I'd love for you to, your first thought, not to compare your ex. And when someone asks you, what do you like about them

you just start rallying off all these things and how they make you feel and how you connect with them and your ex isn't really a thought you know it's you've moved on you've healed from that and that and that can take time but you know otherwise you're just you're only you're kind of dating them to kind of fill gaps that they didn't meet and you might over prioritize those things while overlooking other things that you don't really like about them in that other relation in this new relationship yeah which is kind of what you're doing with this person it's okay for you to like i personally think it's okay to have like a checklist of things like that sounds like you know you like in your mind like emotionally like priorities and

non-negotiables i think that's that's totally okay because then you set you set this you set the standard up if someone doesn't meet it you're just like this isn't right for me because i know i will need these things for me to be happy um you know for me it was like i need communication you know like sexual chemistry is really important. Like those things, people, you know, totally underestimate the importance of sexual chemistry. But like communication, sexual chemistry is like huge. And like, like a good listener, like things like that, things that you know that you have to have, you know, other things can be. Not a checklist about like who they are or what they look like or how they dress or things

like that. Although food, if they're a vegetarian or vegan, they'd be like unless you're a vegetarian vegan then that i love that and i'm totally into vegetarians and vegans uh all right well hopefully this is this is helpful but uh i think just maybe a little bit more patience just back off a little bit from this one. Get back out there again. And it's okay to go on a bunch of dates and not fall in love with most of them. I've been in and out of a bunch of relationships. You just never know when it's going to be right for you. It's true.

It will be easy. It will be easy when it's the right one. And it should be easy. I think a lot of people stay in relationships that are not easy. And it's just that's why so much divorce and unhappiness and things like that. And people find themselves like years down the road. Like, how did I end up here? It's because you kind of settled. And it's just kind of like reminding yourself to never settle because you're worth everything that you want. And it's not about entitlement. It's just about knowing your own worth,

finding someone who sees it. All right. Well, thank you, guys. I really appreciate it. Well, good luck. Thank you. Keep us posted if anything comes up with this person or if you've decided to,

if you find yourself in kind of a new state of mind, let us know. I will, definitely. All right, well, take care. Thank you. I think for timing purposes we're running out I very quick just a fun last game

people don't like it no big deal but I was wondering if like how would you fill in this blank relationships are like cooking because relationships are like cooking because there might be a recipe but you should always make it your own.

Is that good? I love it. Yeah. You have to be flexible. You have to be flexible. Yeah. Sometimes there are kitchen fires and sometimes you make mistakes,

but it's about learning from them. Creative, flexible. Yeah. Open-minded. Yeah. Ronnie, thanks so much for coming. It's been an absolute pleasure. Please let my audience know

where they can find your wonderful book, which I will be making a ton of dishes from. Except for the sexy sauces. I know. No, but Natalie. I'm actually going to try. And maybe there will be a sauce I can find. Yeah.

If they're mayonnaise-based, it'll be fine. No, there's non-mayonnaise-based sauces. But I definitely am going to try to make one of your sauces for Natalie. Please do. Yeah. Wherever books are sold. I mean, it's pretty. Amazon. Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Walmart, your local bookstore. for natalie please do yeah um wherever books are sold i mean amazon amazon barnes and noble walmart you know your local bookstore it's called did you eat yet it's called did you eat yet uh

favorable recipes from an all-american asian chef asian inspired but also inspired by my travels and american upbringing so kind of a little bit for everyone amazing and where can people find you just in general on social uh social you can find me at instagram at ronnie siwu facebook at the delicious cook and twitter at ronnie siwu and it's r-o-n-n-i-e not y just in case no thank you man i know people yeah people do spell my name with the y sometimes but r-o-n-n-i-e c and then w-o-o uh well it's been an absolute pleasure we really appreciate you coming thanks for having me i can't wait to check out some of your recipes. Thanks, Nick. Thanks for listening, guys. Don't forget to send in those questions at asknickatthevilefiles.com

for all things Ask Nick and texting Office Hours. Don't forget, we have another episode of Better Date Than Never live tonight, so don't miss out on that. We'll see you back on Monday. you