The Viall Files - E58 Caelynn Miller-Keyes

Episode Date: November 6, 2019

Today Caelynn Miller-Keyes joins us in the studio to open up for the first time after Bachelor in Paradise. She talks about her feud with Hannah B, her struggle with social anxiety, and all that Blake stuff. Then she reveals details about her relationship with Dean and #vanlife. Donate to Nick's CFF campaign or get tickets for Nov. 8th! https://finest.cff.org/walkthepurplecarpet/nickviall THANKS TO OUR SPONSORS: ETTITUDE: Text FILES to 64-000 for 20% off sheets! LIQUID IV: https://liquid-iv.com/ CODE: VIALL for 25% off FIGS: https://www.wearfigs.com CODE: VIALL for 15% off ANCESTRY DNA: https://www.ancestry.com/podcast See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

what's going on vile file list listeners listeners wow smooth nailed it uh welcome to another exciting episode. Kaylin. Kaylin Miller-Keys. Kaylin Miller-Keys. So progressive with the hyphenation. Yes. You never asked her why. Hmm.

Gotta have her back. Not that she needs a reason. I was curious. Yeah. She's from the South. Probably more non-traditional in the South. Mm-hmm.

Anyways, Kaylin Miller-Keys is with us. Very exciting episode it's a raw it's real yeah it's exciting um i really enjoyed the conversation with her yeah i felt like it was the first time she's really had a really long honest conversation about her past her experience in the show the ups and downs yeah relationship with dean i really related to her she's talking about how she's more of an introvert and an observer which kind of makes

me understand her better as watching her on tv is that she takes a step back and watches and tries to figure it out yeah and she kind of and as a result people can judge her for like kind of her facial expressions which i know i i right and then you get in your head and then you make things bigger than they are and then it all comes out it's a it's a fun episode we also have a big announcement to make oh you guys are gonna love this it's a really great announcement but before we talk about the announcement i want to talk about bed sheets yes so the big announcement this is crazy well i mean not crazy a little everyone knows i mean not everyone but for those of you don't uh caitlin has asked me to be a guest on her live show uh off the vine off the vine and she has her uh live tour one in LA. And so I am the guest for that show.

And Blake is DJing? Blake is DJing. We'll see how that goes. I mean, especially after this episode. I mean- Have you and Caitlin even talked that much? Not a ton. Not a ton.

But yeah, so Caitlin has her live show. I'm going to be her guest. And that records on Thursday the 14th. If you're in LA, get tickets if you want to fly here. I think it's going to be interesting. I don't know what to expect. A lot of potential variables at this live show. Oh, yeah.

Anything can happen when you're live. I mean, my big question, I'm a little nervous. I think I'm not very nervous about Caitlyn. Is Jason going to be there? I don't know. You don't know? I hope so. Jason's cool.

Yeah. But like, is it going to be a crowd full of Caitlyn stans? Do the Caitlyn stans like me? Do they not like me? I don't really know. So many things to consider. If she likes you, is it going to be a crowd full of Caitlin stans? Do the Caitlin stans like me? Do they not like me? I don't really know. So many things to consider. If she likes you, her stans will like you. So can you answer that question?

I think we're fine. We're doing a killer's podcast. So then you'll be good. Bigger announcement. Caitlin is going to be on my podcast. We're going to be recording that on the 12th. So we'll actually have recorded our episode before the live show. And that's where you're going to get deep and dirty.

Well, because my understanding from Caitlin is that her live show is kind of like a variety hour show. Yeah, it's fun. And it's a fun, lighthearted thing. And then Caitlin's going to be on mine and we'll have more of a Viaphiles discussion about life. Are you going to ask her some tough questions? I don't know.

My intention is not to no i this is meant to have a fun okay light-hearted discussion but i'm assuming we're gonna talk about life and everything i hope so yeah right you know but it's not it's not meant to be contentious why did you write this instagram post on june 12th no we're totally we're totally cool but i hope it's uh it's been a long time coming. So I'm looking forward to it. I think Caitlin is as well. So am I. That's going to air. Caitlin's going to air first on the

14th. And then the episode with Caitlin. No, hers is going to air on the 19th. And ours will air the next day. Next day. So you'll get the, you're going to start with the live, fun, lighthearted Caitlin Variety Hour live show show and then we'll get into the weeds on wednesday weeds wednesday but it yeah it should be fun i'm looking forward to it

yeah i hope she brings me a scrunchie i'll tell her bring some scrunchies and some wine and and whatever um so yeah i think it should be pretty fun i'm looking forward to it it's been a long time coming a lot of people have asked for it I asked for it I know I've asked for it there was some hard negotiating back and forth no but it should be a lot of fun so a heavy dose of

Nick and Caitlin on the week of whatever that is November 18th right before the holidays clear your calendars clear your calendars and your calendars and it's going to be two very different shows yes

exactly so you're going to want to listen to both two different conversations you're going to want to listen to both I'm excited about it so mark your calendars

Blake will be at the live show are you going to I'm fine with Blake I just like as you'll listen to this episode I have some criticism

right I don't think Blake's a bad guy. I think Blake's a great, great guy. I think he's had a tough experience. I think he made some mistakes. I didn't appreciate how he handled some of his mistakes. Right.

But I mean, I know he wasn't thrilled with some of my comments. Oh, you know that? How do you know that? We have mutual friends. Oh, yeah.

I don't think he appreciated my opinion. Oh yeah. So that should be fun. But don't you feel like everyone should be able to criticize people's actions? You're not criticizing the person. I do. Rachel and I talked about this on her podcast. Happy hour.

Check that out, everybody. Yes. I think we're all sensitive. I'm sensitive. No one likes to be criticized. Sometimes we feel like when we do get criticized from people that aren't like our close friends right uh we feel attacked and then we feel like it's coming from a place of them not liking us personal it feels personal so i get all that but it's often not especially in in um certain situations where it's not like oh i don't have a vibe about blake or

someone else right it was like no there were specific things that was, I don't have a vibe about Blake or someone else. Right. It was like, no, there were specific things that it was like, I don't like that he did that. Yeah. Or I don't like he did that. You know, it's all fine. Yeah. Um,

but it should be fun. It should be a fun. Oh, I cannot wait. So I encourage you to go by, uh, support Caitlin's show, buy her tickets.

Um, so she can make more money on the live show. Yeah. I mean, I'm not getting anything from it. I'm just getting the enjoyable experience of spending time with Caitlin Bristow at her live show. You guys do have a special connect, Sean.

Do we? Don't you? I don't want to even say we have a connection anymore. Oh, okay. We haven't really not had, we've had one phone conversation we talked about. I mean, you're good together. No, we're cool. But we haven't hung not had we've had uh one phone conversation i mean you're good together you know no we're cool yeah but we haven't hung out in any way there was the wedding that we were both at which was interesting and then why and she called me after well maybe maybe we will get

into it maybe we won't get into it i don't know save it for the pod uh and so we haven't talked that much okay um we she called me that one she reached out after like we kind of like things come to a head of our frustrations and she was very i said gracious on the phone and kind of apologized and it was after post her and sean and uh but so we haven't really communicated yeah okay so it was just halloween and i kept i'm just laughing at jared and ashley's halloween a little much it's a little much it's a lot of much but i don't know if they're going anywhere or they're just dressing up for instagram i'm pretty sure it's the latter they don't go out at all they go to they go to events yes but they're not like they don't go to a ton of parties maybe they did yeah um it's a

totally a lot but here's the thing about ashley and jared that's them they love it like i don't jared love it or does oh my oh my no jared probably loves it more what they mutually love it together so well not for me and it kind of like i would hate it i would truly truly hate it i'm trying i hope that i'm lucky enough to find someone who likes to do corny things that i personally like as much as i do like they obviously both mutually love that right it's a lot it's a little weird right i mean they're full-on reenacting i love my favorite part about their costume is they'll have their costumes and then the last slide will be like just in case you didn't know who we were here's how accurate our costumes are yes yes uh

no it's great were there four different ones i saw there was a tom brady one there was the twilight twilight one there was the there was the uh there was the uh the the uh stars born stars born one i think that was the three i saw yeah a little heavy they went a little heavy no but they both fuck and jared might like it the most easily oh my god without question oh my goodness i think i think i think ashley likes to dress up jared likes the reenactment jared jared could have been a good actor jared wanted to be good jared's also not a risk taker i would i hope jared he does but jared jared has talent and i think jared always wanted to act and i think i think he's uh i think he should i agree uh but he's he's he's good he's uh and he loves it i not

he loves oh yeah you guys used to dress up together huh and you didn't wear wigs and stuff in that little oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Rough week in Bachelor Nation for a breakup. Dropping like flies. Man. You think they were waiting for each other to announce so that they would feel okay doing it? I don't think so. Oh, okay.

Yeah. Listen, all jokes aside, it's tough. JPJ's moving here, but they're not going to be together. I thought he has moved. Oh, has he? I don't know know i know a casting director who uh auditioned him oh yeah yeah so you did fine yeah nice um yeah i don't know i think anyone's really shocked about the jpj or tasha a little bit more shocked about demi and christian but yeah listen it's really hard and for other people who have opinions and criticize uh just a reminder that they they are real relationships and there's real feelings and but it's also really hard and as we we know with this show people break up all the time yeah uh people uh get into

relationships with the best of expectations and hopes and dreams and sincerity and it still doesn't work out and it doesn't mean they're full of shit and it doesn't mean they're disingenuous so just remember that so we got chris and katie left and we got who else hannah and dylan oh yeah fingers crossed oh dean and kaylin oh yeah dean and kaylin our guest shockingly shockingly who would have thought the couple that survives it all yeah we need to get to the caitlin episode but i just wanted to say quick before we do i just want to thank you nick so much for um using the podcast to raise money for cystic fibrosis and just to raise awareness like it means so much to me and it's so kind of you oh i'm happy to do it and thank you those

listeners who have donated so many. So many people have donated. Our live event is this Friday. Yeah, this Friday if you want to buy tickets and come. If you want to buy tickets and come, we'll be there. Also, we still haven't reached our goal. Right. So we'd love to get a few more donations. We're at 2,000.

But we need like 3,000 more dollars. We need 3,000 dollars. We can do it. Of course we can do it. Of course we can do it. Hundreds of thousands of people listening in this show everyone can donate a dollar yeah and we can do it and lauren zima is going to host the event open bar yeah free food free food and um like my sister she's kind of been sick lately uh she's a doctor and uh in new haven right now and she's been sick but it just like

makes me feel better knowing that i'm like doing something also if you haven't seen in the news there's been amazing breakthroughs yes with cystic fibrosis yes um it's all over the news it's all over the news that stuff wouldn't be possible without these donations. Yes. I mean, it's only because of this funding and people's donating. That allows them to have these breakthroughs. So you truly are doing great things just by donating a little bit. So you'll see the link to donate in the show description box.

Yeah. And anywhere you can listen to a podcast. Yeah. Thank you so much. Up next, Kaylin Miller. Kaylin, how's it going? It's going. How are you?

I'm doing well. Thank you for asking. So very nice of you to ask. You might be the first person who was asked how I'm doing. No. Do you think? How you're doing? You can go check the tape.

I feel like there's going to be a couple of listeners and be like, I'm on it. I'll go do that. I'll go report back. Thank you for coming. Yeah, thank you. Is this your first podcast you've done post-Paradise? Yeah.

I think so. No, I've done Ben and Ashley's. Ah, classic. But it was in Vegas we were all drinking was that after Paradise yeah what did you guys talk about I think that's right

when Dean and I could be public so we talked a lot about Dean yeah talked a lot about Dean well that doesn't really count they're

it's a terrible podcast I'm just kidding they're friends of show they're great it's a wonderful show also Vanessa's not on it anymore that's a different podcast rochelle that's that's actually dean's and jared's podcast i'm a big fan

uh r.i.p uh did dean fire vanessa what do you have any inside scoop for us there what happened yes give us some plug on vanessa um no but i think you know she's you must know she i think her time has passed and time has passed i don't know no no no as in she's over it maybe oh i don't know come on this is great no i mean like she's doing other things and enjoying her life in Canada. It's a little bit more difficult to – I don't know. I'm not a part of it. Her time has passed.

Her time has passed. It's really – well, enough about that. I'm glad you have all the iHeart podcast confused. Well, we're glad to have you on. We like to get to know our guests at a more intimate level, especially our Bachelor guests. I know a lot of times our Bachelor guests

will come on other shows or do interviews, and it's a lot of Bachelor-heavy content of what happened this week versus that week and et cetera, et cetera. And I don't know how much, um, the audience has gotten to know the real Kalen Miller keys. Did I say that right? Yeah. So I, uh, I want to spend some time doing that. Um, if you are so willing. Yeah, absolutely. Great. Let's start at the beginning, when you were born. I'm just kidding. No, yeah.

So, you know, it's obviously you've had an interesting path in the past year. I feel like, and correct me if I'm wrong, you've felt a lot of love and adoration early on, and then you had some criticism, and now you seem to be in a really happy place with Dean, but you've had your highs and lows. Yeah. And I'm curious in terms of touching on that,

what has that been like for you, and is it kind of something that you did or did not anticipate when you did this journey? Yeah, I don't think anyone who goes on this show anticipates the hate. You do everything you can to protect yourself from that. And I thought I was. So yeah, it's nothing that I anticipated. I, growing up, was very shy. I couldn't talk to people. I was just the most painfully shy person. And that's why I entered pageants, was to kind of break out of that shell. so for this like shy girl to like come into her own on national television and receive

that criticism was a was i mean incredibly difficult did the criticism start for you like early on i mean i guess yeah it did yeah when um me and hannah had our you know b i do yeah we we reconciled and then cassie and i had our um bachelorette talks you know it was like you and cassie versus tasha and kirpa yeah cool and and then you get some criticism from from that when you say criticism what what do you mean in terms of um was it just something you didn't expect at all or was it like nasty? I didn't expect it, not because I thought I was like perfect or anything like that. I didn't realize the fan base and how devoted they are and how passionate they are. So I had no idea the fans behind it and the trolls behind that. And I just didn't expect like, you know, the death threats, the like, you know, just like the craziness of that.

Question when you say death threats. And I've actually wondered this before, because I've had other Bachelor contestants say death threats. Has someone said to you, I'm going to kill you or you should die? I mean, there's a lot that I've gotten. Because technically, you should die is more of a suggestion? Yes. Well, it's not fun. Not nice. I'm not saying it's fun. We don't need to put hairs here.

No, yeah, I've gotten it all. Yes, yes. That sucks. I can't say I've ever gotten a death threat. And in fact, I've only heard women from the show say that they have. I've never heard a guy say it. Interesting. Interestingly.

I don't know that to be a fact. I just know that I personally haven't. I remember when Caitlin was the best threat, she got a lot of criticism while the show was airing. I wonder if it's because the fan base is largely women. And women are more critical. Women tended of other women. Yeah.

That's interesting. So you had to deal with that. Yes. And then obviously, well, before we get into Paradise, I am curious, the Hannah B stuff. I'm a Hannah B fan. I feel like you guys, what was that all about in terms of just the pageantry?

Like ultimately you guys just weren't the best friends? Yeah. We're just like not compatible as friends. But then, I don't know, you put us in one competitive environment and then immediately into another competitive environment, Miss USA and then The Bachelor. And it's just like you constantly feel like you're being pitted against one another. It's just. When you were casted for Colton's season season did you know she was also like yes going through the

process yeah you did yeah were you guys in communication no so we kind of like fell had a falling out after miss usa but we both knew that each other was doing it did you submit yourself um i yeah i was pushed by friends to go to a casting okay and you went oh you went to a live casting yeah they were like just go and i was like no and then i did it yeah when did you when did you hear that hannah b was going through it as well because at that point you probably didn't know or you didn't yeah at that point i didn't um but she i was getting lunch with a friend in la and they're like oh Hannah's here too and I was like what? So I like found out that way.

Were you kind of like I was like crap but then I thought a lot about it and I was like we'll be fine we'll be civil it'll be great. Seems to be a pattern for you. It'll be fine.

Great. Then you get there and it all hell breaks loose. Yes. So something kind of happened. I mean you don't have I mean I don't want to It was more just...

It solely is competitive environments and you're like, I don't know. That makes me sad. Yeah. No, I get it. It's unfortunate because if we weren't in those two environments, I feel like things would have been different

and we wouldn't have felt that animosity towards each other. I always am a big believer, especially in competitive environments, when two people don't get along, that it's usually there's more similarities with each other um it's commonly known that rachel and vanessa didn't get along in my season right we've you know not to get and i remember joking with both of them separately it's like i'm not saying you guys are like exactly the same there's clearly differences but y'all are like the reasons you guys separately, it's just like, I'm not saying you guys are like exactly the same, there's clearly differences, but y'all are, like the reasons you guys are fighting,

it's like, you guys aren't that much different. And there's a lot, you had a lot of similarities and you kind of butt heads with, you know, someone who like, you know, it's the immovable force meets the whatever object. But do you think you and Hannah B have some similars in that regard being competitive, where it was like, that's why think you and Hannah B have some similars in that regard being competitive where it was like that's why maybe you kind of butted heads

and there's a different world where you could be quite good friends? Yeah, no, I think we definitely have our similarities. We're also very different, but I can totally agree with that. In what ways are you different? She's just, I'm more quiet and reserved and she's hannity and beast yeah she's the beast um but yeah we we were good friends and um i think if we weren't in those environments it would have remained the same cool yeah i was just curious i never i remember watching it. It was fascinating when it was happening.

People are still curious because we never like came out and we're like, she did this or she did that or I did, you know, because it wasn't that.

Yeah. I don't know. I thought that was kind of interesting. And so then you go on and so you were in the running, obviously, for The Bachelorette. Hannah B.

is chosen. Like, did that make it kind of, was it like, personally, were you like, did you feel like the competition was still going on? I mean, obviously, you were fine from it. Yeah. But, you know, to be totally honest, were you like, man, were you totally happy about it? Or were you like, couldn't it have just been like someone else?

Like, I feel like I'm going to ask all these questions like I'm doing right now super annoying but like or were you totally over it and totally happy or slightly bummed I think in the moment it's hard

to say now because I'm like so happy and I know the plan that you know my life was supposed to have but I think in the moment when I got that call and it was like hey it's not you say now cause I'm like so happy and I know the plan that, you know, my life was supposed to have. Um, but I think in the moment when I got that call and it was like, Hey, it's not you. Of course you're like,

dang, that sucks. And, and we all knew it was Hannah at that point. You did. Yeah. Okay. Um,

because I don't know, we just knew we just had a feeling. You had a feeling. so yeah, I was a little bit bummed and then, but the more I thought about it, I was like, had this constant battle in my head.

I was like, could I actually do this? Cause I'm terrible when I'm tired. Like I should, when I'm tired, I like shut down. I don't talk to people when I'm hangry, same thing. So it's just like, I don't know, would I actually be a good lead? Because midway through our season in my ITMs, I was just like, yeah, everything's great.

Everything's good. Whatever, I love Colton. You know, like, and that's how I would have been as the bachelorette. I would have sucked. That's a very honest assessment. And I can tell you that that goes in the process of when people ask, like when people, you have your fan favorites of, oh, we want so-and-so to be the Bachelorette. And part of it is like, can this person just deal with what we're going to ask of this person? And that is to be on for 18 hours a day

for eight to nine weeks in a very stressful environment. And they just can't emotionally shut down. That's really, really hard. And me, I don't tap into my emotions like ever. So I think that was my challenge on The Bachelor. It's like constantly tapping in and it's like, oh my God, I don't want to talk about this. Like now we're talking about my stepdad and like I have to tell him that he's

my dad. And it's just, you know, just constantly tapping into that was exhausting enough. So when you say you don't tap into your emotions, you just don't like talking about like intimate personal things? Yeah. It's a problem. Oh, because it doesn't come off that way. Oh, really? Yeah, you seem very emotionally available. Oh, not.

Interesting. So, and that's more just talking about things, because, I mean, I think what Rochelle's getting at, and I would agree, is that, you know, it's like you were, you cried, you were emotional, you weren't like, you didn't come across as a robot by any means on the show but it's more talking about kind of is it like is it a i'm just guessing here so correct me if i'm

wrong is it more like it's easy to talk about some things but other things you have completely closed off i think it used to be like anything at all and going on the show broke down a lot of barriers for me. Cause like, I'm not one to cry in public. I'm not one to like emote basically. So it was just breaking down those barriers. And I don't know.

I just feel weird talking about like my emotions. Interesting. Yeah. Because like, I just read stuff online. It seemed like some people were like accusing you of faking emotions. So it's interesting to hear that you don't even like feeling emotional yeah and wouldn't you know i just get uncomfortable so maybe that's like the fakeness that comes out i don't know it can i mean

um if yeah if you're not comfortable with it um before like and you i was you said something about the pageantry why you got into it in terms of you were shy i mean and you i was you said something about the pageantry watch why you got into it in terms of you were shy i mean and then i think sometimes within pageants people get criticized of the you know even hannah is really good at that grin i mean i've seen her in dancer of stars and sometimes one thing i always forgot to do because i was so nervous is smile while dancing and i went there hannah's just like a fucking pro yeah like how does she know how to do that I'm like on the pageant yeah in terms of but you get that criticism of kind of coming across disingenuous and like is that do you think that stems from that or the combination of you not being wanting not wanting to talk about it and then you have the pageant training so much

yeah I think it's both of those things. Also not being comfortable in my own skin. When I went on the show, I was 23. I'm 24 now. But even just that year of growth, like so much, I've grown into myself. And in dating Dean, like he's just made me embrace the weirdness about myself and like the quirks. And it's like, I don't need to be perfect. I'm not perfect. Like that's very obvious and apparent.

No one is. But do you think you tried to be perfect? Yeah. On the show. Or even before. I mean, I mean, God,

all about being a pageant queen, at least from an outsider's point of view is the idea of perfection. Yeah. Of this talent and well-spoken and giving back. You carry the, I don't know. I started when I was 15 and it carried this weight with me throughout the past almost decade. Yeah. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, there's not a segment in the beauty pageant of like bad habits.

I know. Let's embrace the bad habits. Like, tell me the things that are like, tell me something you do that's kind of nasty, you know? Like, I'm filthy. I'm filthy. I leave milk in the sink. It's disgusting. Honestly, until there's flies in the sink, I won't clean it. Like, that's really real.

Congratulations, you won. Like, you don't have that pageant, you know? And so, yes, you're obviously a very beautiful woman you seem like i guess that perfect image but it's it sounds like it's safe to say that maybe maybe even still now and certainly going into the show you had a lot of insecurities definitely and i think the insecurities that i felt you know going back to like me and hannah previous, you know, it's been like a year since we reconciled. It has actually been a year since we reconciled. But I think my insecurities were kind of drawn out in that as well, which is pretty obvious. What are some of your insecurities? insecurity of mine like people who can kind of overpower the room and and just talk so openly and freely i i was envious of that because i would always be kind of like meek in the corner and

and just like watching from a distance um i don't know i've got a lot i mean we're here there's some physicals i was bullied a lot in high school so i think i don't know i don't know i mean people i gotta say when you can admit your insecurities people quite find that to be uh uh relatable and um it's it's always i mean yeah i relate to what you're saying if you're a more introverted person more of an observer it makes sense that you would i well something i and we've talked about another show is that you're a pretty person right you're quiet and sometimes people will like, have you been criticized of being a bitch before?

Yes. Or like the resting bitch phase? Yeah. The quiet pretty girl. Have you been accused of, you think you're better than us at times throughout your life? Yes, to a T. Yeah, and it's not that I like, I am an observer.

Like I just like to sit back and watch even still. I'm not like in that shy phase of my life, but still I like to just kind of watch what's going on around me. But also there are times where there's people in a room who are all like so good at interacting with everyone. And that's when I, those insecurities come out again and I just get quiet and people are like, she's a bitch.

Yeah. Yeah. Social anxiety. And then it almost, it tends to get worse and worse. Yeah. Yeah. Social anxiety. And then it almost, it tends to get worse and worse. Yeah. Why aren't you having fun? Have some fun.

Why aren't you having fun? Are you not having fun here? Be more fun. I can relate to that a little bit. Do you, are there ever situations where you can be the life of the party? Or is it, is that something you really struggle with? I've never like considered myself like the life of the party, you know?

You put like two glasses of wine in me, then I like start talking more and my inhibitions are down and I'm like, whatever. But I don't know. I think too much before I speak and I'm always like. You think, okay, yeah. Yeah, I'm the same way. I think a lot of people, that, I'm the same way. Yeah. I think a lot of people, that's a very relatable thing too. Yeah.

Especially if you're not chatty at a party, there must be something wrong with you. It's just like, I'm fine. The only thing that's not fine is you trying to get me to be like you in this very moment. Yeah. And it's really bothering me and now I feel worse.

Which is funny because Dean, like we're both, we both need our time alone. And we were both, I don't know. He's more of an extrovert than I am, but we both are just like, need to be alone at times.

And he'll get really quiet. And I'm like, ah, he needs to be away from me. Like he's had enough of me. And I'm like, what's wrong? What's wrong?

Like, why aren't you having fun? And I do that exact thing. And I've never even thought of it from his perspective. when you're in the van together you don't have much space i'm like i'm like just staring at him he's like go away well i feel i mean like in any relationship there again the people who go to parties something like they're it's a pro i mean a defense mechanism too i mean maybe on their side it's just like i'm they're dancing a fool at a party and then see the other person and again like you have your you're you're thinking you're in your head thinking about

god knows what but here's this girl and maybe it's a guy he you know he finds you traditionally attractive and he's just like dancing a fool and then i mean he sees the part you staying in a room just kind of like no emotion on your face and he just is going to assume oh she thinks i'm an idiot yeah so then his defense mechanism mechanism might to be to go up to you and it's kind of a nag you know why don't you have any fun but like i'm having fun have fun like me and they're truly probably more or less being i don't want to feel judged because was i acting like an idiot for the past five minutes dancing to like call me maybe? And I think there's a little bit of that.

I think we're all just kind of projecting. And in relationships, I think we do that a lot too. It's just like we're constantly checking in for validation probably. Yeah. I don't know. Yeah, I would agree. I am. So, I mean, we have to talk a little bit about the Blake stuff.

I have been, I guess if I were to pick a team team caitlin versus i've been very everyone knows i've been very critical of blake um but you know i i do want to kind of understand um you know you had your criticism too and there seems to still be a lot of he said she said i was actually uh i was on the bachelor happy hour i think it drops maybe this week i don't you know with rachel and we were talking about how i'm having you on and she had blake on and she told me to listen to that episode and i did and i still kind of rolled my eyes a little bit um and even on that episode there were still a lot of like discussions about timeline and stuff like that and i didn't really quite care or whatever but um as you now that it's over right you're it's over you're in a

relationship with dean i guess maybe the thing i'm most interested in is what are your kind of takeaways from that whole experience in terms of not so much what blake did wrong and why are you right but what are things that you think maybe you've learned from that experience that if you could do it over again, what do you think you would have done differently? I think like the main takeaway that I have from this whole situation, as terrible as it was, is, I don't know, I just want to be a better communicator. And I think we can all be better communicators. Because so me and my best friends, we talked about this, we're like, am I like building this up to be more than it is like, and just little situations, like, whether it be,

you know, with a stranger, a best friend, whatever. And it's like, we need to be better communicators and see both sides. Because even you look at Nicole nicole and um nicole's drama angela nicole's drama with angela why did i i'm tired no it's okay i was like who was she fighting with um angela yes are you worried in that moment if you're gonna get shit for not remembering people you're on the show with no no no it's not that i don't remember angela would it be like that kaylin bitch didn't even remember her no no it was uh i couldn't remember who she was having beef with of course clay's ex-girlfriend yes it's fine i don't remember either i don't thank god it's over right but like trolls will have a little they'll find something to bitch about and just go ahead but yeah so with them you know if nicole and n and Nicole's been vocal about this that's why I

feel like I can talk about it if she had been a better communicator and talked to Angela she would have seen Angela's side if I would have been a better communicator with Blake and been like this is exactly how I'm feeling versus hiding away and feeling like a I don't know like an obsessed girl or a heartbroken girl which is how I was feeling and that's kind of why I and I can be more stoic and I hide my feelings. But if I just would have opened up and been honest, I think things would have obviously played out differently. When you say be honest, what do you mean? What do you think you weren't honest about, if anything?

I feel like I was honest, but from Blake's perspective, he says that he had no idea where my feelings were at. I want to dive into that just a little bit because my understanding, and I do feel like, you know, as things go and people, things are sent in the show and their social media and then there were the posts. And I remember like, you know, even my friends and fans, when people would come up to me and tell me their opinion, there'd always be this little discussion in it. I found that there ever seemed to be a lot of different interpretations of what the story was. Right. That's with every fuckboy situation.

Sure. Callers. We callers call in and we're like, you always tell them, communicate. Yeah. My understanding of the situation, and it wasn't even so much about Stagecoach, is that you guys hung out for a period of time.

I remember on Rachel's The Happy Hour podcast, it was like, how many times did you guys hung out for a period of time. I remember on Rachel's The Happy Hour podcast, it was like, how many times did you guys Facebook? It was like, I don't know. A lot? FaceTime? Facebook? Whatever. Because Blake was like, oh, we only did 12.

And Kaylin said they did it multiple times a day. I'm like, well, 12 is a, I don't know. Whatever. Did he go back and count? It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. So you guys talked and whatever.

And so there were feelings. There were some hooking up a little bit. And then it ended. And did it end abruptly for you? And that was my interpretation is that you guys dated. It stopped. You felt like you used the word ghosted. Did he was he not returning your calls at a period of time where you were like

hey i want to hang out and you just didn't hear from him yes so we were talking for a couple months and things you know i i really didn't think i was communicating properly i was like i like you obviously i'm in bachelorette talks if this were to happen what would this look like for us if you know whether there were multiple you know options being thrown out there um and it was something that was even making him sad i remember we were on the phone and and he was like well this sucks because i do like you and if you were to just like leave i don't know so there were multiple conversations being happening i was like i've had those conversations yeah and it's like well what if i don't go on you know with the all every possibility was thrown out there um so then we are facetiming constantly

whatever 12 times 24 times who knows i didn't count more than twice we were facetiming every day um and then i see a photo of him with another Bachelor contestant, a female, at a bar. And I was like, she will remain unnamed. Name her. Come on. Christina? What? Who was it?

I feel like people know. No, people know. People know, right? I don't know. Except for me. I literally don't know. Maybe I shouldn't. Why not?

I don't know. Who is it? No, I shouldn't. It's funner this way. It's more fun. People will figure it out. People will find it. Yeah, yeah.

Is there a picture on the internet of this thing? Yeah, I mean, I can Google it. How is it a secret? I don't know. Let her go. So it's just a female. And I was like, oh, that's weird. That kind of sucks.

I remember FaceTiming him, and he was like, weird. He that kind of sucks I remember facetiming him and he was like weird he wouldn't answer my facetimes um and then from there it was just like so here's where I lacked communication typically I'm like what's wrong what's wrong what's you know what's going on or I saw this I didn't want to be that crazy girl I saw this photo of you with another woman so I was like you know what I'm always that girl i'm just gonna take a step back like if he really is if he really is like you know hooking up with this girl or seeing her while he's seeing me you know what he's not my guy so i'm just gonna you know take a step back and i was still like trying to like text and follow up but it was like you know basically

zero communication back no facetimes um so he wasn't responding right there may be like a a one word in here like hey like at 6 p.m when i text you at like nine you know like sure and then it's like the next day it's like a soft i'm like yeah what's up yeah a soft ghost not a full ghost sure yeah but no facetime so i don't know okay and then and then just and then you just kind of accepted that reality and you guys stopped talking kind of thing where it was like he's not he's not reaching out to me so you what and it just so there was no like closure no there was no closure so i would i think i tried to facetime him a couple times like in the days following after that and there were those like one text a days,

you know, like I would send one, he would send one. And then the next day, you know, one per. And so there's no closure. And I was like,

all right, whatever, you know, let's move on. It's, he's not my guy. And then he called me, I guess,

I don't remember when he called me and was like, why'd you ghost me? And I was like, what? I did not ghost you. And so. He called me and was like, why'd you ghost me? And I was like, what? I did not ghost you. He accused you of ghosting. Oh. Yeah, so. Strong, strong fuckboy move.

Yes. On Blake's part. Right out of the playbook. Right out of the playbook. Turn the tables. So then I feel guilty and I'm like, what? Yeah. I really liked you.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, strong move so yeah we had the conversation and he expressed he thought when was this how long long before stagecoach um maybe a month or a couple weeks before stagecoach um so i explained my side of things and i still didn't bring up that nameless woman because i just didn't want to seem petty. Who everyone but me knows. Nameless. This is going to be hyped up to be more than it is.

It's really not a big deal. I know. I'll be like, oh, yeah, okay. So then he told me he thought I was just, once I found out I wasn't the bachelorette, I didn't need him anymore is what he said. And I was like, I feel like, and this is what I said in return. Wait, he said that once you weren't named the Bachelorette, you didn't need him anymore? Yeah. That literally doesn't make sense.

For like advice, but I mean. For advice. Okay. But I wasn't, I don't know. I mean, I got Blakeman through the process too, but it's not like he's the oracle of how to be the bachelor. Yeah. And I explained my side of things and I was like,

I feel like you got scared of your feelings. And when I wasn't named the bachelorette, you were like, oh no, this could be something and you backed off. And so I did tell him that in that moment. And he was like, no, no, no. And so we ended that conversation on a good note. And I thought we were going to, he's like, okay, let's talk tomorrow. So I thought we were picking things up. Like we both felt like there was ghosting on one another's sides. And so I faced him the next day, I was trying to text him and it was just like a nothing so okay then we saw

each other at stagecoach and that's when everything well he mentioned something because I listened to Rachel's podcast about there was like you know the whole living situation and you reached out and kind of was like and he said he didn't he might have told Colton like hey it's kind of be weird if she's there which I guess I get especially if you want to hook up with other people um I mean and no criticism like hey I mean like someone you want to hook up with other people. I mean, and no criticism. Like, hey, I mean, like, if someone you used to date and you're like, you don't really know if you're gonna have a bunch of sex,

but like, hey, it is a festival. You want to keep it open. One can only hope. One can only hope. And so, and then, then you go to stagecoach, you have some drinks, you get a little horned up, you know, 2 a.m. text. Which, that was the problem I had just about the releasing of the text

is that doesn't necessarily say anything other than the fact that you were drunk and hooked up, but it doesn't necessarily mean that no one ever doubted your interest in Blake and the fact that you did pursue it. I think it was that it seemed like he didn't want to and that you were like trying really hard you know but it's also a text message you can't really tell i get that and even though that's the case it's like well it's not like you kicked his door down and forced yourself on him you know what i'm saying like yeah uh what do you think about

that um it's just i don't know i think we talked on the phone before i released the text messages i was like dude if you want to like clear your name and say this like whatever i was like there are phone conversations there are text messages like from both of our sides like that i'm not going to release so that like this isn't fair but if you want to do this and i know it's in your heart whatever but you don't need to release the 2 a.m drunk text messages like you just don't was there a time when you were guys having this kind of almost seemingly negotiation about whether he was going to release these text messages tapes that was my also criticism i get it like listen like it's fair to say and would you agree that some of the phrases you chose to use on paradise might have

come across as a bit strong and like the the you silenced me comment i think break kind of references that in terms of he feels like you were kind of accusing him of you know we're we're in we're in sensitive times in 2019 things like the Me Too movement and stuff like that. And everyone's kind of a bit on edge on that. And he came across as kind of suggesting that you were accusing him of aggressive behavior in terms of the silencing part. Would you agree that maybe that was a poor choice of words?

Or do you feel like he did try to silence you no no no i i'm very sensitive to this obviously um so i don't know i'm i i don't know i guess like with drinks in me i got more heated than i than i ever really felt in paradise yeah okay yeah and so i think i was just what i was most upset about was that he he did want to kind of hide me he was like ashamed of me i i like again when i i got that it was more like once you said that phrase it like kind of almost took on a life of its own in a sense of like, and we talk about it in the show. We have a lot of people who call in the idea of like, he used me for sex and other callers

and this idea of like, you just want to hook up with me and now you want to pretend it didn't happen and things like that. And I think a lot of women relate to that situation, right? It was just more like that specific phrase was like a trigger phrase for some people. And I think they weren't focused on that very relatable situation of what you were seemingly trying to express. And then it seemed like you were, you know what I'm saying?

Yeah. It was more, that's the impression I got. And I feel like, because I hear that a lot when I'm talking and debating with people with the Kaylin versus Blake thing. People will bring that up almost, if they're kind of arguing in Blake's favor, they will bring that up every time. Well, she said he silenced her. And it's, there will be this phrase and I'm like, yeah. And they're saying in a way of, in that sense.

And then I'm like, well, like, haven't you been in a situation where you feel like you hooked up with a guy and he didn't want anyone to know about it and it made you feel kind of stupid? And that's what it was. It wasn't, you know, the way people are interpreting it. And I wish I didn't use that word. But also, like, I'm in my own head where I know every detail of what's happened. And so I'm thinking of it this way. And then the Internet turns it into something that it wasn't. And that yeah really unfortunate so yeah i wish i didn't use that specific word yeah i mean again it's not the end it became it's felt like i'm sure the end of the world in the moment and again i've always was critical of like releasing the text not because you were 100 right and he was 100 wrong but like once you do that takes on a whole life of its own completely out of context and i guess my original question was when you guys were negotiating about this,

were there ever a talk of like, oh, fine, listen, I understand you're getting heat and you don't deserve it, but like, did he give you a chance or were you willing to maybe say, have you say something about like, hey, listen, like I know I said this in paradise, but like, Blake's not a bad guy. I was frustrated and I stand by my frustration, but like, he is not some of these interpretations of the show. Like I maybe have misspoke or poor choice of words. Was that ever discussed between you two? Yeah. I mean, I talked to him. I was like, listen, like, you know, there are things in there that I feel like are unfair towards you. There's, you know, only so much that can air in all the conversations that we have. And I talked to multiple people about this.

Like, I'm sorry that, you know, you're getting, I don't know. There's, I apologize for a lot. And before he released the text. Before he did. And I was like, if you want me to do an interview, if you want to do a joint interview, if you want me to release it. I mean, I said all these things. See, I think that's very interesting.

We talked about it on the reunion and he was like, why would I, I still haven't watched the reunion, so I don't know if this has got aired, but he was like, why would I trust you to do an interview or trust you to do that if you've said, and I was like, Blake, come on. So I don't know, he just never really gave me that opportunity, which I would have, I think, I told him, I was like, there's a better way for us to handle this. There is 1000% a better way. That was kind of my opinion is like, I felt for, I get it. Like, if I were in Blake's shoes and like, I would have gotten very defensive in that

situation in Paradise. If I were in Blake's shoes versus you, you know, and I'm sure I've, you know, hooked up with a girl and she felt like I, I maybe, I'm sure I've communicated poorly, you know, where she felt like I didn't acknowledge what happened as much as she would have liked to. I'm, I'm certain that throughout my life, that's happened. And I would have felt defensive, but to that point, having removed yourself. And again, keep in mind that happened in fulfillment. Now we're talking what, two months later, now it's being aired and now there's reactions so it's not as if in that moment he was reacting to the reaction of the show and then again it's interesting to hear you

wanting to have this like figure out a way to resolve this because i guess you could have just been like silent you could have not reached out and it was it's not like let me cover my ass let me like do this i talked to him about multiple things and i was like i don't know there's like things i can say and can't say but i don't know i just i know that there's a better way to handle it and it was mishandled and i get you know the way he was feeling i because i you know once he released those i was trapped in that same exact corner that he was in that he was feeling. I, cause I, you know, once he released those, I was trapped in that same exact corner that he was in, that he was now suddenly like a little bit released from. I was thrown into that corner and I was, you know, felt like my world was crumbling, felt like I didn't want to live anymore. Felt like just horrible about myself.

Like I was like, am I really, like, I remember waking up and I was like, am I truly this horrible, horrific person? Like that people are constantly bashing me. And I don't know, I really like, I remember waking up and I was like, am I truly this horrible, horrific person like that? People are constantly bashing me. And I don't know. I get it. I get what he was feeling because I was I felt the same. Yeah, it is interesting because like you both you and Blake have talked about just the kind of at your worst mental health wise via the show. mental health wise via the show it you guys kind of tell the same story which is kind of

interesting in the fact that when you talk about early on this the show a few minutes ago considering the other point of view and the other side before reacting and that's that is a lesson to be learned for all of us in terms there definitely is always an other side because like again i don't think blake's a bad guy at all you know um this is not like he it's just an unfortunate situation that snowballed and probably could have been handled much better by by both parties yeah um so and would you say you've learned a lot obviously from this this whole experience yeah i it's funny i thought i grew from the bachelor and like the criticism that i received then but the how much i've grown since, like it was hell. I mean, it was absolute hell, but I'm so happy with the person I am today and the way I'm able to communicate today.

And just I am much more aware of my flaws. I've always been aware of them, but now I am quick to address them and be upfront and forthcoming with them. Interesting. And for someone who's, you've kind of said who's in your head a lot and overthink, and yet, but some of the things you've learned is to try to think or be more thoughtful before you act about something emotionally. How do you deal with that? Because it's a, I would say, it seemed to be a challenge for someone who's already overthinking, but for someone who overthinks, do you think you, when you get really emotional for someone who's not used to expressing their emotion, you were responding too quickly that in that

sense? Does that make sense? Yeah. I think that's when the overthinking stops. And I just kind of say what I feel in the moment and the heat of the moment. And I don't know. Yeah. Interesting. Well, I mean, I really appreciate you moment. And I don't know. Yeah. Interesting.

Well, I mean, I really appreciate you sharing. I know that's not always easy. You and Dean, now we're in a happier time. Everything's fine. We've had Dean on a few weeks ago. I mean, it's obviously like Dean's a good friend of mine. It's a fascinating dynamic. And from what I,

a little bit I know about you and a lot I know about Dean, it seems to be an interesting relationship. And I think, how do you think you spoke to a little bit about it? How are you guys helping each other out? What effect are you having on him, do you think?

And obviously you spoke a little bit about the effect he's having on you, but can you speak a little bit more to that? Yeah. It's funny because people, I think we're betting and everyone was like, they're going to be the first to go. Like, they're never going to laugh. Really?

And there's a time even that I, he recently spoke about this. I mean, that's fair. I would have taken that bet. Yeah. Yeah. Right? Maybe. No, I would have Tayshaun Wampald, John Paul Jones. Really? Really. I would have. sean wampald john paul jones really really i would have

yeah and then a second a close a close second um and it's funny because he just recently spoke and he was like caitlin was a little bit scared of me um when we traveled so we got off the show and immediately went to europe together he bought me a flight to Spain. He's like, sorry, I dumped you on your birthday. No way. It was a flight to Spain. What a romantic. I know. And that trip in Europe, I was treating our relationship like it was on the beach where he was like, I don't want a relationship. I want nothing to do with this. I'm very non-traditional. So I was like, if I say the wrong thing or do the wrong thing, he's going to leave. Oh no, I hate that. Yeah. So I was like walking on eggshells the whole time in Europe and I'm like,

what do you want? Like kind of like bowing down to him, you know? Dean had all the power. Yeah. But that same with Blake too. You didn't want to define it or. Yeah. Well, I mean, listen, Dean kind of even when I was, when I found out you guys are dating,

I was even like, really? Because I didn't think Dean was, and Dean even said this. I didn't think Dean was going to leave Bachelor in Paradise in a relationship at all. Right. And then when he was, it was kind of like the joke was, yeah, I mean, I'm going to date Kalen, but like, hey, Kalen, this is what I'm going to do. And if you're okay with it, we can date. Yes.

Which I guess is honest, but also puts you in a really tough spot. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And so that was a little bit challenging. And then at some point in our relationship, I was like, if I'm actually going to date this guy, I need to date him and not be scared of him and be my full self because that's not fair to either of us. If it ends and I'm like, I didn't even try. I was scared of the guy the whole time. That sucks. So then finally, we just, I don't know, our relationship developed and we became

more and more comfortable. And now I feel like I can say and do whatever I want. I talk about us getting married like three times a day just to scare him purely because I know like that's- Oh, you fuck with him. Oh, yeah. Great. Healthy. And my lease is up in March and I'm like, so when we move in together, do you want an RV or a home? And I don know we've i think we've learned a lot from each other i know i've learned a ton i've grown into a new version of myself and a version that i like so

much more and i challenge him too and i don't know it's a very unique relationship that people wouldn't expect to work but it does i mean i i get it i mean again for you you've talked about some of your insecurities and how you are and And I do think in that way, Dean could be a really great partner for you. What I like most about Dean, and we've talked about this, he has his own insecurities, but he's willing to talk about it. He's very open. He's not a conformist. And I think so much, especially in this world, we often do what we just think everyone else will be happy with us doing right um and then we kind of lose ourselves by just you know you know like especially well i'll just tweet this because or i'll say this

because that's what will get the the most positive reaction and then all of a sudden you're like why am i doing this and dean has never been like. And I'm assuming that has an interesting impact on you. Yeah. So for the first time in my life, and I'm so thankful that I've had him through all of this paradise stuff, because I think if I ended up with someone who's just all about their perfect image and they would have left me immediately and Dean stuck by my side and through the horrible times. And I'm very thankful for that. But he's also made me realize like, it's okay to not be perfect.

Like embrace your quirks. Like you don't show the right side of your face. You think it's less photogenic, like show it. But also like the weird sides of me and embracing like the no makeup. And I don't know, it's been a very interesting transition. What have you done for him other than giving him shit? What are some things that you think Dean could work on? And there are plenty. What are the things that you think you have a positive

impact on him early in this relationship? I think about that a lot because I'm like, you obviously challenge me a ton. I'm like, what am I doing for you? But I think he's becoming more vulnerable a little bit. We both are because we both suck at it. I think he's becoming more vulnerable than I am and just he's always very honest and he's a really good communicator. I don't know what I've taught him though.

I don't know. How to be in a relationship? How to date? Yeah, maybe that. Yeah, I'm sure you have. If you haven't, I would challenge you to challenge him more. Because Dean's great, but he's not. What about being on time?

Are you often on time? Because Dean's never on fucking time. That's what strikes me out. How is his tardiness with you? So we went to an event together the other day, and his manager was like, I think he's only early because of you. We were 30 minutes early. But I get really stressed if I'm late. Like today was very stressed. He's on early because if you're 30 minutes early um but i get really

stressed if i'm late like today was very stressed he's on time he's never on time he's never on time but he is so that's a wit that's a huge way yeah so there's there's one thing we're working on he'll just it's like we have to be somewhere at six it's 5 40 and he's just scrolling on instagram and i'm like what are you doing like we go. And he just has no sense of urgency. And I told him this the other day, I was like, you know, I really admire that you're never in a rush for anything, but like, sometimes you gotta, you gotta go somewhere. You gotta be somewhere. Dean has admitted to me how incredibly selfish he can be. Do you think with you, you've got like, you must feel like he's obviously considering your feelings more i think that's

that's a huge thing that's changed i feel like a lot of people wouldn't who have dated dean or even have friends with dean i love dean and he can he's a big heart and sweet person but even and like that's what i love about dean is be like yeah i'm people just put up with me yeah you know they like my eyes and so they'll put up with me. I mean, he says it jokingly, but there's a level of truth to that. And yet I feel like you're starting to feel like he's making you feel like he is really truly considering you. Yeah. That's one thing that's changed drastically from that time in Europe to our relationship now. It really does feel like a partnership versus me just catering to him. our relationship now it really does feel like a partnership versus me just catering to him um he does think of me and he like like you said has the biggest heart and he he treats me very very

well i think people would not be surprised to know that but like he has a really good boyfriend yeah i always got a little defensive of dean because obviously the whole like fuck you like sure he can have be a fuck boy i'm sure he has been a fuckboy. He'll admit to that. But he also is a great guy. And again, Blake, I'm sure Blake will make a great boyfriend to the person he settles down with. And so, yes, it doesn't surprise me that Dean is a great boyfriend. What kinds of stuff does he do? He's just really thoughtful. So when we're traveling, he always has one day where he's like i've had enough i need to like go hike um at

sunset so while i'm sleeping in bed like he'll wake me up with starbucks and bagels or just like little things like that but um i was in church and he dropped me off me and christian and he comes to pick me up and he always gets on me for not washing my car because i hate going to the car wash and he's like do you notice your car is washed so i was in church he washed my car for me did you at that point say like have you washed your hair or your armpits because like last time you've showered last time you showered because you hop in with the car you kind of smell a little bit he doesn't uh his armpits but for a guy who barely showers he's got pretty good body odor, but it's... It's impressive.

But he's stunk before. Just his body too? Or just his armpits? His armpits. Yeah, yeah. And he'll give me like a hug. I'm like, Jesus, bro. Those get bad.

Yeah. But no, he's really great. He's really thoughtful. I think it's just ironic that he criticized you for washing your car. That's true, actually. And he can't even wash his body. But when you travel with him, you sleep in the van? Yeah, so we just traveled to a wedding together

and our Airbnb fell through. They didn't let us check in. It was this whole ordeal. And I was like, let's just sleep in the van. And the bride was like, sleep in this casita for the night. And then the next night I was like, we don't need a hotel, let's sleep in the van. he's like no we need a hotel i need to get ready for the wedding like in a hotel i was like no let's sleep in the van and so now it's become this thing where

i'm i like sleeping in it more than he does oh it's cute is he getting sick of it i don't think so no you don't think so no but i gave it like six months he's passed six months yeah he said he would last a year. So June. But then because I want to move in with him, he was like, I'm going to do another year in the van. You do want to move in with him? I joke.

I mean, maybe you joke in terms of in terms of saving money. A one bedroom would be cheaper with two people. No. If I could give you advice that you did not ask for. Yes, please. If you want to move in with him, anything great don't do it to save money a couple cameos a few fat fit fun deals that's that'll save your relationship i know um money should not be the excuse why well also the more i fall in love done that before it didn't go Really? And it's never the reason you want it to.

I think maybe if we're, I don't know, if we're going strong a year from the next March, maybe we'll get an RV together. Who knows? I'm making this up. Leave it open-ended. But just don't do it for the money. If that's your number one reason why it makes sense, don't do it. I know.

And that's okay. You can still spend a lot of time together. Yeah, it's true. It tends to put a lot of false expectations on relationships, I have found. Yeah, I do think it beats it. Well, now we're living together. What does that mean? Yeah.

I think we, in this relationship especially, we need to take our time. Yeah, you guys are, how long have you been dating for? Four or five months. It's super early. So much to learn about each other. Awesome. Well, thank you for being so open and honest. We have one more little fun game we like to play with our guests if you are so inclined

to do. Yeah, let's do it. Do you know me? Do we know Kaylin? These questions have been selected by Rochelle. I always put that disclaimer on there. Some of them have been sexual in nature. That's why I say it. Rochelle and I are going to guess who knows you better.

I'm going to read this question. Don't answer quite yet out loud. We're going to guess. And feel free to explain your answer. If there's an anecdotal story behind it, you're open to guess. Perfect. And then feel free to explain your answer. If there's an anecdotal story behind it, you're open to share. Awesome.

Question number one. Has Kaylin ever ridden a mechanical bull? And by mechanical bull, we don't mean Dean. Oh. Bunch. Has Kaylin ever ridden a mechanical bull?

Yeah, for sure. She's from the South-ish. It's North Carolina of the South. Yeah. We didn't find out anything about her childhood. Were you in a sorority? I don't know. This is a great time to talk about our childhood.

Maybe we'll find out through this question. I'm going to say, because she is a little bit of an observer, being on a mechanical bull is a very vulnerable thing to do because you might look like a fool. I'm going to say she passed on it. She's watched a lot of girls do it. That's a great, that's a great, you know what? You're probably right.

She has- Can't change your answer. I won't change my answer just for fun. But yes, that's probably a better guess that you've been to plenty of bars where there've been mechanical balls. But haven't done it. And you've watched a lot of other girls do it

and you kind of wanted to do it, but never did. And you were just like having these conversations with yourself, Kaelin, why don't you just do it? I don't know. I don't know. People might, I don't know.

What, how will this look? What if I look dumb? What if I look dumb? And you never did. You're fully in my head now. Yeah. I have. You have.

I win. Yep. Beach week in high school, we had like a beach week where once you graduate, you all go to South Carolina to the beach. How fun. On how, eight seconds? to South Carolina to the beach. How fun. On how, eight seconds? Did you stay on the bowl

for eight seconds? Not long, maybe like two. That's pretty long. I have found, I have, I went on one once. I have found

that the people who tend to control the mechanical bowls are male. And when a guy annoyingly goes on the mechanical bowl, you can pretty much knock off

anyone in a matter of seconds and they're like fuck this guy and they just throw him off and with the women they tend to like let them go a little slower and after after they get a little confidence they throw them off that's so funny were you popular in high school um dean and i were just having this conversation he was like no wonder you got bullied in high school. But I was like friends with all, like probably like five different groups and I never really belonged to one, but I would kind of like. Were you, did people tease you

for being in pageants in high school? Or is that a normal thing? Yeah, no, they teased me a lot until I won. I won my senior year, a teen division. And then all of the popular girls wanted to be my friend suddenly yeah has kaylin ever had bangs well there are options here yeah i'm just i'm certain she hasn't had corn rolls or a bowl cut but have you ever had bangs uh yeah ever sure i'm gonna say no her face is too perfect she wouldn't she wouldn't cover it up with bangs uh i'm gonna say yeah um do they mean

like these type of bangs yeah yeah okay i had remember when that what what was that phase called side bangs yeah yeah and they like fully went i I had those. Like covered up like an eye? Yes. What was that? Two nothing. Yeah. You? Yeah. I don't think that counts.

Side bangs? Like I had to like- Is bangs in the word? Well, you know, like push them out of my hair constantly. Yes, constantly. Yes, yes. Just like, yes. Fine, I'll give it to you.

Has Kaylin ever been in a fist fight yes what that patent world gets i mean listen i think it would make a great story but i do not think she's actually hit another woman or grab their hair over the age of eight yeah no what is the answer i don't know if this counts i want rochelle to be right but tasha and i got into a fight on a date so it was like physical like fighting and i got there was the it was the boxing date yeah yeah oh that doesn't okay then that's it. Yeah, no. But were you like hitting her

like you were mad? I can't remember. No, but. It was the date that the Demi like got her ass kicked. Yeah, but let her answer. I'm sorry. Just references.

It was like, they were like, three, two, one and Tayshia just bam, straight in my face and I was like, a little shocked for a bit, but yeah.

I tried to give it back. But she's taller than me. So I ended up just like punching her boobs. And she's like, stop. Have you ever wanted to hit a girl at a pageant? No, I'm not like a physical person. Yeah. What's your dark side?

I just get really angry. But I internalize it. I would love to know the worst thing Kaylin's thought about doing to someone. I won't make you answer that, but I feel like it could be dark. It's dark in there. I feel like it could be dark.

There's, you know. Three nothing. Why do you gotta rub it in my face? I'm just, I don't know. Did Kaylin ride a limo to prom? Right? Yes. Yes?

Yes. I don't know. What do you mean you don't know? You don't remember? Did you go to prom? Yeah. How'd you get there? I don't know.

Were you drunk? Yeah. How old were you when you had your first drink? 17, 16. You throw up? Yeah, I had a Four Loko. What's that? What?

What? It's an energy drink mixed with alcohol. They're illegal now. They had to take the energy out because- It's an actual pre-made drink or is it something- They still sell them. It's terrible wow final question can kaylin drive a stick shift and again not dean's dick no

no uh no no um i'm learning oh dean um, will use the pedals and he'll tell me I'll do the stick shift. I'm learning. Yeah, you are. Is he a good teacher? Is he a good teacher? Well, because every country, every country we go to, it's always stick shift. And so he has to drive and I feel really bad. Every country we go to.

What a hard life. What a, life. So relatable. You know, in our travels around the world because we're trying to figure out our presets for our Instagram. What are your presets, Kayla? So I use the Tezza app. I'm obsessed with it. I use Lightroom because of Amanda Stanton.

I use her presets. Oh, no way. You do? See, Dean has his presets in Lightroom. He made Stanton. I use her presets. Oh, no way. You do? Yeah. See, Dean has his presets in Lightroom. He made his own? I think so. Or he just doesn't make each the same way.

Can you share your presets with me? My presets? Yeah. I don't have. I mean, hey, I'm always looking for a good new. They're pretty good. A good new preset. But yeah, so when I first started dating Dean, he oversaturated his photos like an insane amount.

And I was like, you got to stop doing that. Like all of your photos look fake. And so now if you look at his Instagram, it's slowly changed and it's less fake looking. See, another way you helped him out monetarily. I could use a good Instagram girlfriend. He is a great Instagram boyfriend, I will say. He is a great photographer. I know this picture of you guys in the van.

That was like your coming out photo. Yeah. Pleasure town. Yeah, it's great. Who took that, by the way? His roommate. Oh. His old roommate.

His van roommate. He was like, hey, meet us in Venice right now. We're going to take a photo. Cute. Aw. Aw. Yeah, that looks like my backyard. Kaylin, thanks so much for coming.

Thank you. This has been a lot of fun. Thank you for being so open and honest and vulnerable and hopefully this is the last time you'll have to discuss blake but i feel like now we really had a chance to talk about it sometimes when you you know the interviews that we we get to do in bachelor nation or come across as more soundbite-ish and it's always think of the full story yeah i haven't talked about it since since it happened so this felt like the right you haven't oh my god this is really good for our podcast i just have to say well we people call in with

questions about dating i just feel like it's a difficult time in general with these like new rules and like you don't you want to be the cool girl and not say anything but you still feel hurt and but you haven't established anything. It's like hard for everyone. Yeah, thanks for saying, Rochelle. And yeah, we do, to Rochelle's point, it's a fine line early in a dating situation to try to be the cool chick. I feel like a lot of, and it's more women,

women feel like I want to be the cool chick because I don't want to be the crazy chick. And they feel like they have to decide between the two. There's no middle ground. Right. Yeah. You know, so I'm either going to come across as like a crazy chick or I'm going to get walked all over because I just want to be super chill and super cool.

And we're all struggling. Yeah. It's a fine line. And we are here on Vile Files to let you know, you don't have to choose between the two. You can- Say what you want. Yeah, you can say what you want and just don't be, you know, just don't be like, oh my God, you know, just be like, hey, that's just curious because like, it's a great time to maybe check

in of what are we because if that's what you want to do, that's totally cool. Yeah. I think women have a fear, even if we're like, like i don't know we're just us communicating our feelings we have a fear that we're going to come across crazy even if it's very level-headed very chill i don't know it's just a fear that we have yeah it is interesting though too because i don't get me wrong i have been in relationships where i have had the thought why are you acting so crazy? I mean, I have. But at the times it was because it was what felt like a non-rational thought. But like, I think it's totally rational

to ask what's going on in this situation. I'm confused based off of what we've been doing. It was more, that seems reasonable. And then again, for me, it was more like in relationships where we get in an argument and then we're just like, we're 30 minutes into this argument and it was like, okay, I don't even know what we're arguing. That's always a little bit different.

But I think early in a relationship when there is a lot of confusion. Yes. Like asking, checking in and asking what's up because that's not crazy. Yeah. You know? And I think, you know, when we were joking about the fuck my move Blake did when he turned it on,

it's like, you know, like men probably do play off that fear that women have of, well, I'll just call you crazy. I'll just say you're being irrational for a very rational question. Because I've never experienced that with a girl early in a dating situation. It's always been in relationships when we're arguing and emotions are heated

and we know each other's like idiosyncrasies. And it's just like, we're just fighting. We're not trying to solve any problem. And that's very different than, you know, early in a dating situation. We're like, wait, okay, I guess, I mean, we haven't defined the relationship, but like, oh, you're hanging out with another girl. Okay. I don't want to be, maybe it's just a friend, but like, I need to ask.

Yeah. That's interesting. Very relatable. So thank you for sharing. I think probably a lot of people will continue to relate to that situation. And I just want to thank you personally, just for being so brave for standing up against, yeah, assault and sharing your story. And I don't think most people realize want to thank you personally just for being so brave for standing up against um yeah assault and sharing your story and i don't think most people realize how hard that is and courageous and so i want to thank you thank you i appreciate that thank you thanks i mean it means more from her no thank you i mean yeah i'm not gonna sit there and be like you know i think it's great

that you do and i do think we still are in a world where sometimes when you do you're it's always going to be met always criticism always it's always going to be met from the people who unfairly will assume that you have alternative motives and things like that and it's I don't think it's ever been met with uh without criticism yeah so I think it's uh just going back to the Blake stuff one more time, it's hard once you've been through a situation like that to be open about your sexual history or present sexual, you know, whatever is going on in your life because suddenly people see you as this victim.

Whether you portray yourself as a victim or not, people see you as a victim and you have to remain abstinent for the rest of your life, basically in their eyes until you're married. And so I think that's why I was more sensitive to this. And Blake was receiving the heat that he did because of what I've been through, which is unfair. What I've been through doesn't make me a victim and I'm allowed to have. That's an interesting point. Just like you were open about that on Colton season, your history.

And then you had this situation with Blake and it, yeah, I guess it's interesting that people then probably interpret that maybe different than they would. Had you not been so open on Colton season. Yeah. Right. In terms of like,

Oh, is she doing that? You know what I'm saying? Yeah. And that's fascinating. And it sucks that, you know, again,

choosing to be open is met with unfair consequences of how people interpret your, the things you do going forward. But so as Rochelle said, thank you for being so open and brave. And I know it's not easy. Thank you guys. But also thanks for telling us about Dean. Yeah. Fun and lighthearted. What a, as Rochelle said, thank you for being so open and brave. And I know it's not easy. Thank you guys.

But also thanks for telling us about Dean. Yeah. Fun and lighthearted. What a, what an episode full of, uh, all different emotions. I love it. Uh,

as always guys, thanks for listening. We really appreciate it. Uh, don't forget to rate us five stars. That's the only star we want. Um, your objective opinions are,

uh, don't forget to send us your questions at asknickatcastmedia.com for Ask Nick or Questions with Nick or whatever we call it on Monday. Thanks for listening. See you on Monday. Have a great day.