The Viall Files - E588 Ask Nick Updates Special Episode - Part 8

Episode Date: May 26, 2023

Welcome back to The Viall Files! Today we have another special “where are they now” update show where we give you updates from our past callers to see what’s happened in their situations and relationships since appearing on the show.  We bring on our first caller who was grieving the loss of a 17 year relationship and unsure of how to move on from her childhood crush. We check in to see how she is feeling and if she’s followed Nick’s advice to stop referring to it as a 17 year relationship. Our second caller wanted to break up with her boyfriend but was financially dependent and living with him. Did she take Nick’s advice to swallow her pride, move back home, and dump him? Finally, we hear from our Texting Office Hours caller who has been updating us on her dating life ever since making out with a Tryst-seeking man at a basketball game. When she last updated us, she was trying to decide between a girl and a new guy she’d begun dating. We’ll find out if she is still seeing one, both or neither of them. We also have some written updates - our caller who was trying to escape her former situationship at the Crossfit gym, the Texting Office Hours caller hoping to reignite the laundry room meet cute, and a caller whose mom was considering getting a tattoo to memorialize her ex.  To catch up on all of these callers original questions please see the show numbers:   Original Episode numbers for callers: Episode Number: 563 Ask Nick - My Fiancé Paid for a SexBot Episode Number: 575 Ask Nick Updates Special Episode - Part 7 (First appearance: 545 Francesca Farago - Likable Villain Gone Bad) Episode Number:507 Ask Nick - Bad Sex, Good Connection  Original Episode numbers for written updates: Episode Number: 537 Ask Nick - There’s No Medal For Staying Friends Episode Number: 565 Love is Blind Recap with Phoebe Robinson Episode Number: 516 Ask Nick - I Want a Tattoo to Memorialize My Ex “If I see him around I can say hello with confidence knowing I took my shot and it was incredibly well received.”  Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://www.viallfiles.supportingcast.fm  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  Join us for our new LIVE show on Thursdays at 9PM ET/6PM PT on Amp, available in the Apple app store. Android User? Listen here: https://www.onamp.com/  To Order Nick’s Book Go To: http://www.viallfiles.com  To advertise on the show, contact [e-mail] or visit https://www.advertisecast.com/TheViallFiles  Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @alison.vandam @liffordthebigreddog @dereklanerussell

what's going on everybody welcome back to another special episode of the vile files update edition update special whatever you want to call it. We have a great show for you, some great updates for you. Excited to get into them. Just want to remind all of you update lovers out there, because we know you love a good update. We drop two more of these bad boys every month on Vile Files Plus. So if you're starving for more caller updates, we got some juicy ones there for you. Go to Vile Files Plus. It's free to sign up. Check it out for seven days. You're going to love it. But if you don't, you can always just get rid of it. But again, you get two more updates every month behind Vile Files Plus. I'm here with the household.

Derek is on jury duty. All running uh sitting in derek's desk so we're a bit discombobulated today so not everyone in the household is here uh we're not sure if derek's gonna have the same opportunity to he's in real jury duty by the way not not fake jury duty we think i don't know for all we know maybe derek could be the next ronald ronald derrick i could see derrick being an earnest ronald totally anyways he's there we don't know how long he's going to be there could be just a few hours could be an entire week uh either way derrick is doing his civil servant civil service he's a civil servant civic duty civic duty all right uh we got some updates before we get to our our callers boy do we have some updates so do you remember our caller from episode 516

the infamous shall i tattoo my ex get a tattoo in memoriam of my ex yeah what a wild thing we got an update i did not end up getting the tattoo, and will not get a tattoo about my ex. In hindsight, I don't think I was ever going to do that, but I just wanted to talk to someone about the feelings I was feeling. Thank you for indulging me. I'm going on dates with people I've met online and real life. I found that the hardest part about dating for me right now is finding the balance between learning from past experiences and allowing myself to learn about each person.

The most terrifying part is voluntarily opening myself up to potential heartbreak and hurt from both sides. But all we can do in life is keep moving forward, which is what I'm trying to do. So determined. Yeah. Have there been things? Because, like, I feel like when she called in, she was dead set on getting this tattoo or like seemed very it seemed like she'd ran it by a lot of people, all of whom were like, this is a bad idea. And she was still clinging on to it. Have there been things like that where like people have tried to talk you out of it or like you've just been really like, no, I want to get it done? I mean, I mentioned this in my book, but I was going through a bad breakup and I convinced myself that I wanted to quit my job, go back to school, be a teacher.

But it was really just to get my ex back. I mean, her grandfather was a teacher and she looked up to him and, you know, I was, this was my first job out of college and she had broken up with me. And I think she, I either had it in my head that she thought I was too career focused or she had mentioned that. I don't know. But yeah, no, I was like, I remember I had this epiphany and then I called up my parents and we went to the Olive Garden and I wanted to talk to them about it. And I'm very convincing. So, you know, and my parents are the type of parents, you know, here where I was 23, 24th time, you know, they parents are the type of parents you know here i was 23 24th time um you know they weren't there to necessarily tell me what to do they didn't try to stop me

but uh and no one really i mean i i eventually was just like yeah i'm too money motivated this is not gonna be i don't want to be a teacher but yeah it was definitely something i looked back and was really glad i didn't end up doing yeah I tell you two this all the time. I mean, in our callers, you never want to make a major life decision when you are feeling unsettled or in crisis mode or not a good time to make some life altering decisions. No, no, no. Which we often try to do because we want that feeling of we feel like we need to do something. We feel like we need to shift the energy in our lives and we're tired of feeling a certain way. So we tend to feel like something big or bold is the right answer. Usually it's not. Yeah. I also feel like there's something about the way

that when your life gets shaken up and I just I've been thinking so much about the power of inertia recently and just like how once something is set, it takes so much to like break the momentum of that. You know, whether that's like in rest or like at rest or in motion, like regardless of the direction, once you start doing something, it's so easy to just be doing that in autopilot. easy to just be doing that in autopilot. And so I think with these whole like crisis decisions, it's like I finally have a crisis that pushed me to the so far that I have to stop doing what I'm doing. Like it finally boiled over. The volcano finally erupted. And so there's this like new freedom where it's like, oh, all these things that I maybe could like level up or reassess or do differently. I now feel like I have the opportunity to actually like fiddle with them. Whereas before it's just like, it's just so much effort. And it's like, and I feel like, I don't know. So often it's, it's less of thinking of something and being like,

I should do this. I should do this. And more like not even being aware of it, just having it go on in the background. Allie, was there any major life decision that you thought you were going to do? And then was glad you didn't. I mean, I was going to stay decision you thought you were going to do and then was glad you didn't? I mean, I was going to stay in Chicago and be a full time event planner. Yeah. I had like a full contract drafted up and everything. I was also going to stay in Chicago. COVID. Okay. And I moved home and I remember being in the basement of my parents' house and there was this little voice and it was like, if not now, when? And that's why I moved to LA.

Didn't have a job out here. Be full-time nanny and then you entered my life nicholas here we are yeah i really wanted to go to college in australia that was my big thing and my parents my parents have been so supportive and like given me a ton of independence from like an early age because that was like a big principle for them was like kind of giving you the freedom to like make your own choices which i'm so grateful for and it was like the first time that they've like kind of full-on been like we like we can't support you in this like we can't help out financially like we can't like yeah like it would break our heart if you went like you're gonna live on the other side of the world and then what like you're gonna fall in love or get a job or you're going to build your life there.

Truly alter your life. Yeah. And I really wanted to go. And so then finally, my mom was like, well, why don't you just take a gap year, Amanda? And I was like, fine, I will. And then it ended up. And they were so right. Thank God.

The college I ended up going to was the most perfect place for me. I'd really convinced myself that it was this specific Bachelor of Commerce liberal studies at university of sydney where it was like a built in double major one of which was like liberal arts one of which was like business focused and it was like i was like this is perfect like it allows me to kind of like have the economic specialization while also having like a more like creative or like sociology type thing i think i'd really convince myself that like this is what was going to happen. And I'm I am so grateful that my parents like just held their ground. I have found that when it comes like as I don't consider myself to be a patient person. And I don't most people aren't, I would say.

But if if there's something that. You are compelled to do whatever that is, whether Whether maybe there's a voice in your head, or you have to convince yourself of this thing, or other people you have to convince, or you have maybe people saying, ooh, I'm not so sure. If you feel very impatient about it, and you feel like you have to do this as soon as possible, that should be a sign that maybe you should wait. Because I feel like that impatient feeling is something internal. It's your body saying, if you don't do this right now, you might never do that. And I feel like it's your subconscious telling you, that devil on your shoulder that wants you to get it done, but maybe knows long-term

that feeling might go away. If you feel impatient, I think the best thing to do is to sit on it, wait a week, wait two weeks or whatever it is, and then come back to that feeling and see if you still want to do it. Because we have this kind of like, I know I want to do it. And if I never do it, I'm not going to do it. Like if you ever said to yourself, if I don't do it now, I'm never going to do it. Don't never do it i'm not going to do it like if you ever said to yourself if i don't do it now i'm never going to do it don't fucking do it because our choices matter

they small choices can have impacts on our life and if you don't want to do it a week from now then why should you do it now to play devil's advocate though there are certain decisions where it's like to do to take the plunge is really hard like especially like i feel like we hear from callers all the time who are in relationships like where like the love is not or like the love might be there but there's no compatibility like it's not serving them anymore and it's really hard for them to just like pull the trigger which makes a lot of sense it's like a challenge and so with stuff like that sometimes there are things where it's like you do kind kind of need to be like, if I don't do this now, I'm not going to do it. I'm going to procrastinate. I'm going to like waste more of my own time and my own emotional

energy. Yeah. I hear what you're saying there. I guess it just comes down to, I guess what that is. But you know, when you say it that way, I'm, I'm the first thing that comes up is like maybe having the guts to break up with someone, you know, right for you yeah but i'm guessing in that scenario that is a feeling you've been sitting on for a long time that you've been pushing down not some like crackpot idea that just kind of came up and you're like i just got this amazing idea and i gotta do this and you find yourself rushing through the the process of like figuring out whether it's the best thing for you and you find yourself rushing through the process of figuring out whether it's the best thing for you, and you just have this sense of urgency just to do it, then maybe hold off. Allie, I feel like you're someone who's pretty good at resisting the impulsive devil on the shoulder.

Would you agree? Like being impulsive? I just think you're good at being like contextualizing an impulse and being like, OK, but like, how does this fit into the larger picture? Is this a good idea? Like kind of like running the numbers on it a little bit more like. Yeah, specifically financial stuff for sure. I mean, I was really hemming and hawing. I was going to buy a Titanic signed poster in middle school for hundreds of dollars. And I really that one was eating away at me. And I'm really glad I didn't do that but yeah yeah I was really convinced that that was gonna be a great

purchase oh my god when you're a kid you want to buy the dumbest shit I wanted to buy like a whole season's worth of basketball cards I just remember messaging this person on eBay first off why was I on eBay and obviously you were negotiating 100% I was like trying to get them to like go down in price and they were like I would recommend borrowing the money from a friend and i was like trying to get them to like go down in price and they were like i would recommend borrowing the money from a friend and i was like i'm 12 where was the internet parental control this was a different time in the internet it was a more wholesome time i feel well we have a great uh episode for you with some more updates. Again, we appreciate you all who listen to our show. We have an amazing Ask Nick out next Monday.

If you haven't listened to Ask Nick this Monday, we have our special guest, Tinks, who is with us. A fantastic episode. Again, we're back on Monday with another Ask Nick and a great week for you lined up next week. Well, if you haven't already listened to G Flip's episode, it's fucking fantastic. We have a great Sweating the Wedding caller. Yeah. So if you're into, you know, going deeper, you're like, oh, I'm in it for the Ask Nick. Like

you get a little slice of Ask Nick. Yeah, regardless of who our guest is, you get a little bit of Ask Nick in every Going Deeper episode with we always have a caller. Usually, you know, whether it's wedding related it's always relationship driven you know friend drama relationship drama whatever it is so be sure to check out all those episodes as well and as always like we said don't forget two other update

specials every month behind vile files plus so be sure to check that out just go to vile files.com to sign up you can listen to the episodes on Vile Files Plus the same way you listen to this very episode, assuming it's not YouTube. Also, in the comments, make sure we want to hear from you. What are some of the life things that you thought you were going to do that you didn't do? You're so glad you did. Or I'd love to hear from people who, you know, regret a decision that they kind of

wish they would have waited. We love to hear those stories pop off in the comments for all those watching or listening to this on YouTube. Also, very important programming note, because next Monday is Memorial Day, we want you to enjoy that Memorial Day. Have some fun with your families. Get outside. We are back with The Vile Files on Tuesday with Ask Nick. And then we have a very amazing, special, wild episode with James Kennedy and his girlfriend, Allie, to talk all things Vanderpump, their relationship. We want to get to know them a little bit more. Obviously, some comments throughout this season questioning the validity of their relationship to strength, whether they're in it for the long haul. We'll get to talk about that with them and so much more next week, Wednesday.

And then we have a very special Going Deeper episode on Thursday. That's going to stay on Thursday. Be sure to check that out. We're excited to bring it all to you. And if you're sitting around listening to this, don't forget to give us those five-star reviews on Spotify or Apple iTunes. We always love some nice comments to offset the people who just love to troll our show but you

know anyways we love you all no we don't we love most of you honest that was an honest thing to say let's ask Nick your sexy questions welcome back Lexi. Hi. How's it going?

It's going much better now. Great. Well, remind our audience a little bit why you called in the first place, the advice I gave you, and then we'll get to the update. Okay. Well, I called because first I want to correct. I said 17 year long relationship where I should have said friendship. So I'm grieving. I was grieving that. The big takeaway was that I was delusional

and wanting to create a little fairy tale in my head. Your words, not mine. No, and that's okay. That's perfectly fine. I take full accountability for that. And I just walked away from it feeling much better that I was like romanticizing it and that it really wasn't as deep as it really is. But yeah, I should have definitely said friendship because still kind of grieving that, but in a totally different way now. Well, let's play a quick clip to remind our audience of that initial call. I am grieving the loss of a 17-year-old relationship, and I do not know how to move on. 17-year-old relationship.

How old are you now? We met when we were six. Okay. So we've been best friends ever since, and we're just like always had chemistry, always saw ourselves like being married, our friends and family were just like, always had chemistry, always saw ourselves like being married, our friends and family were always like, you guys are the ones you guys are going to add together. And it's compiled into like, you know, situationships weren't a thing up until like a year ago. And I realized I've been in situationship for so long. So he's never been your boyfriend?

He was just recently. So we started dating in December and just broke up a little over a week ago. You need to stop with the whole 17 year to 17 years narrative. No one's like having a hard time moving on from someone because they were friends with someone in kindergarten. You're grieving over. Oh, totally. The well, had we got together, we would have had such a great love story. And it's literally no different than me saying, well, if I would have found the love of my life on The Bachelor, then we would have had such a cool story to tell our kids how we met on

a TV show and they would get to watch our love story unfold and yada, yada, yada, yada, yada. Like who gives a shit? So instead of keep saying, well, I'm so sad about my 17 year relationship going to an end. I'm so sad about like losing my best friend. It's just like, Hey, I had a really great relationship with this great guy that I've known for a long time. And we were there for each other for a really long time. But now I have realized that I've outgrown this relationship. I've realized that I want and deserve more in a relationship. And I'm excited about the possibility at my very young and youthful age at 22 to go out there and find something that I deserve. I'm super excited and proud of myself that I realized this at 22 and not 28.

You know, I am excited that I've had a really pretty generally positive dating history with men and I've learned a lot and I've learned about myself and now I'm excited to go out there. That can be your narrative. And the more you tell yourself that, the more you will believe it. All right.

So based off what I said, where are we now? Give us the update. How are you doing? Was my advice helpful? Did it ruin your life? Let us know. No, definitely didn't ruin my life at all. I like blunt honesty.

So that's why I wanted to call in the first place. Where we're at right now, I felt kind of weird, even like giving you guys an update, because not much has happened. We haven't talked. It's been about two months now since we broke up. I have been talking to his sister. But it's really only because we're we are close, like we've been growing up together. So it really wasn't different. You know, talking to her, haven't mentioned his name at all with anybody and then she invited me to her wedding though in december so the sister invited yeah okay so i'm like wondering you know how do you feel about that i don't know i mean i definitely want to

go because i'm close with her you're gonna run into. Well, he's literally like going to be a groomsman or whatever. But like, would I bring a date? I have like a guy in mind who's gorgeous. Is she allowing you to bring a date? Yes. Also, the wedding's in December, right? And typically you don't need to RSVP with your dates until around like the six week mark. So we have a lot of time in case that changes.

She hasn't even sent out her invitations yet. So I know I have a boatload of time. I just don't even know if I want to, if it's worth, I don't know if there would be potential drama. Why would there be? Anything were to happen? Why do you think there could be drama? Because he loves to drink. And so nothing wrong with that. But he gets aggressive if he's drunk so i could see him he loves to when he's drunk start a fight so i could see him like either getting in my date's face or because the guy's that aggressive that aggressive just enough to like provoke so he'll

start like he would tap you and then like he would want to start a physical fight what part of you wants him to create drama for you no part of me that's why i don't even want like i then i am then i wouldn't worry about it okay okay i believe you but i don't believe you i believe that you believe that you don't want drama but i think there's maybe a subconscious part of you because the fact that like if he's dating someone that would just be absurd drink, like regardless of his drinking situation, it's like you don't want it. But I think there's a part of you that if you go to this wedding, let's say the wedding was this weekend,

you know, because who knows how you're going to feel in seven months. Right. Like if the red, if the wedding was this weekend and let's say you had this little hottie on the side that it was an option to bring as a date, the fact that you because he didn't create a scene, which your ego would be saying, well, if he cares, he'll create a scene type of energy and him not caring and being indifferent towards you.

Well, the healthiest option, I could see that triggering your ego. Oh, totally. I mean, I genuinely don't want a legitimate scene like something crazy i would just want a like as of right now yeah if you said it was this weekend i would totally want a reaction as far as like a jaw dropping but nothing nothing movie i don't want a whole like stop the wedding type of thing but he's still as of now he has a girl he has a girlfriend yeah okay yeah well she's gonna be found out on tiktok how she came up on my for you page and i started off so normal thank you tiktok and um so i think i guess i've been dating for maybe a month now how much time did you spend stalking once it showed up on your tiktok luckily i was

going to an event but i uh right before i saw it but it was definitely a hard 30 minutes of my sisters and i just combing through 30 minutes a long time time flies when you're having fun exactly like we were just screaming and yelling and laughing and it was laughable at first and then obviously the shock wore off the next day you cry about it and then you move on but now it's it's weird because i was watching him in these videos and it was like i don't i mean i don't recognize him at all so it's almost like that version of him kind of died that i knew and i don't even know who this new version is so i i hosted a little funeral in my head there you go we want to be blunt no i think that's good and also to ellie's point it's seven months away and truthfully come wedding time

this really shouldn't be an issue so if you want to go and you want to bring a date you should be able to and i don't think yeah you should worry at all about him and if he happens to do something that is just going to make him look real weird and really in a bad light to his sister i would hope that he wouldn't do that it's just like this new version of him is so hard to gauge because i don't know who that is but i also i think you should stop worrying about who he is now you're spending more emotional energy than you realize i think it's so weird too because this past month i haven't thought about him at all I felt like I had a lot of I mean I was mostly busy but

I just found out about this girlfriend maybe four days ago which is normal and then it popped all back up that's gonna happen but I just think in seven months I mean it should really just be

water under the bridge. I agree. And whoever he is, you know, yeah, he's going to be a different person. You know, he's going to have new, especially if he's dating the same person, maybe he's a different person by then. I don't know. But if he's dating the same person, that will be seven more months of him kind of morphing into this you know relationship and yeah you know ever since i've been dating natalie we mimic each other's behaviors we have our inside jokes you know like i have a lot more different interests i literally am now

a fan of country music you know good after going to stagecoach i'm not i don't think i'm like gonna dive deep into it become a super fan but you know if you talk to ex-girlfriends and and they saw me at stagecoach having fun they would oh what a different you know but that's part of being in a relationship with a new person you know and if he stays with this person he is going to yeah change i'm and it's not your problem that's the most important thing i totally agree and i'm not um i'm not even thinking about the behaviors changing i'm thinking about um is was he a narcissist and i didn't know it until now? No. I think it's not your job to diagnose this. He's not in your life now.

Yeah. What's the worst thing he did to you? I can't. That's the problem why I was having trouble getting over him for a second. And then you obviously get a new perspective a few days later um we were in a situation ship for all of last year until he finally committed uh recently and then we broke up and so I think the worst thing was putting me through that and knowing where I stood because I kept telling him so many times and then obviously giving in but you have to like you definitely have and and I'm sure that was a

lot while you're going through it but you don't have to be a narcissist to be in a situation ship in which the other person is the one who wants to be in a relationship but does you know you just have to be a little selfish and self-centered and i think we live in a world where we have a main character syndrome epidemic going on where everyone and i that's why i think honestly why you see buzzwords like narcissism thrown out so much because when it's when we're all thinking the world revolves around us, everyone else feels like a narcissist because, you know, we can't imagine how, you know, how can they have this point of view and yada, yada, yada. And while I'm sure that

was emotionally distressful to be in that situation, you, it's important for you to take the responsibility for the role you played and the role you played was you know not enforcing boundaries uh hoping you know being delusional as you said uh certain things it doesn't make him a narcissist and you this whole extra this whole exercise of was he a narcissist and going back in your head to try to like diagnose as if what good does it do you you know what it does is emotionally it keeps you emotionally invested because you're like oh well i guess i was dating a narcissist do i need to like talk through that do i need this is fucking selfish guy you know i'm sure he had narcissistic traits as we all have i'm sure you know i've been very self-centered but like yeah this i this whole, this whole, I'm glad you say that because

it, I literally didn't start thinking of the word narcissist until, um, the internet told you obviously deep diving. Yeah. On the internet, when you get all sad one day and the algorithm and someone's like, were you dating a narcissist? And it's like, you know, did they think about themselves every once in a while? Did they ever make you feel crazy? I mean, listen, if you're in a committed relationship and you feel disconnected, you often feel crazy. You both have these strong points of view and you have these strong feelings about a particular topic.

No one's listening to the other person. You're not going either way to be connected. You're going to feel like the the other persons make you sound crazy and you just feel that the and the other person feels the same way about you because no one's listening everyone's yelling everyone's raising you know it's like that doesn't make someone a narcissist and what would be accomplished by learning that he was and who's diagnosing him and why does it even matter you know i guess i just wanted to kind of make him a bad guy because i wanted to easily get over him because like i said when we initially broke up i'm like i wish

he would do something bad so i would just get over him like i wish he would have just cheated on me you know but yeah i put a halo on his head but sometimes i think we have to be dangerous i think we have to be careful that as i think that can be dangerous to try to make someone a bad guy in the hopes that we can get over them because that doesn't always work out that way. For that same thing we just talked about, oh, let's say you found out I cheated on you. Well, you're going to have to go through this whole process,

emotional journey of how did that make you feel and then your ego is going to want to know, you're going to have to find out all, you're gonna have to go back in time and you're going to have to like find out when he did it. And you're going to have to, you know, how are you, how are you made to feel like a fool? It's not always a healthy exercise. Again, getting over someone is all about getting to a place of indifference and acceptance, acceptance than indifference and acceptance. Acceptance than indifference, rather, if you're going that way. But villainizing someone in your head just keeps you emotionally invested. So whether you put them on a pedestal or you kick them off the pedestal,

you're still thinking about them. Listen, if you are caught off guard in a breakup or you have a heart, if you're just stuck romanticizing about it and just, you don't want to accept it. Certainly like making a list of all the ways that they didn't meet your expectations or making a list of all the things that you hoped would change, but didn't, that can be healthy. But going out of your way to make them out to be this horrific person in your mind, I don't think is always a healthy exercise. And I honestly think it can backfire in the goal of getting over someone. Oh yeah, it already did.

I think just saying, maybe they're just not my person, you know? Well, I mean, yeah, I already forgot what I was going to say, but pretty much I was so indifferent this past month, found out he was dating somebody. I'm going to villainize him really quick so I can get over it faster. But it already did backfire because I was like, now I have to check in. Like, oh, what is what is she doing? What is how am I different? I was already starting to compare myself.

And I was in so quickly, even this morning, I was like, what am I doing? And so, yeah, I'm glad once again, you keep saying all the right things. So I am accepting of them. I'm definitely going to be indifferent about this from here on out because I've already seen can't give me what I deserve. Thoughts like that I think are okay. And then if you have that thought, then you have to be okay with the thought that if they're not your person, they're going to be someone else's person. And you have to stop. And that's okay. And that's okay. And you're not comparing to them. They're not your person, which means that you don't want them.

You have accepted they're not giving you what you need. Take away the whole idea that you weren't good enough for them. Don't let your ego creep up and be like, oh, no, no, babe, they rejected you. Like, get that out of your head. You know, they're not meeting your emotional needs. And if they meet someone else, that's her problem, not yours. You know, it's not like, oh, what did she do to, like, you know, catch him or whatever.

And, you know, and not like oh what did she do to like you know catch him or whatever and you know um yeah and you have no idea she literally could for all we know she has called this show to complain about him and we just didn't know it you know like that's possible wouldn't that be something it would be something but and also would nevertheless still not be your problem there is one thing that has been bothering me shoot because um it came up on my and this is i never wanted to bash the other woman because honestly she's gorgeous and she has no idea she probably has no idea i exist so but she came up on my for you page again and in the, she was wearing one of my hoodies.

And I was like, oh, you're wearing my clothes. It's not your problem. It's not your problem. It's a hoodie. I want my shit back. Like all my other stuff that's still there, I want my shit back. No, you don't. No, you don't.

I don't think you really care. I do want one thing. If you wanted it so bad, you would have gone out of your way to get it much earlier. The fact that you were reminded the fact that he has some things and that you don't get to go, oh yeah, I really want that back now. No, no, no, no, no, no. Not like that. Not like that.

I knew from the get-go right when I got home, I was like, there's still all that stuff over there, but I can definitely live without those things for however long just knowing that she was in it though i was like i don't want that just seems so weird what is what is something that he has that you think that's possible you can't live without there is an expensive carhartt jacket there expensive what carhartt jacket how expensive they can run up to like 120. And I'm not saying that's not like nothing. But is it worth your peace? Yeah.

It's less than therapy. The only way I was talking to his sister, I was like, can you just take it over to your house so I can come over and grab it? I think. Like I would not be involved. Yeah, but emotionally you would be. How'd it go? What did you talk about?

What was it like? Maybe 150 bucks is less than therapy for most therapists. So you go buy yourself a new jacket and then not have to go to your therapist to talk about why you didn't need it. I just, you don't need this stuff. You don't need the hoodie. You'll get new clothes.

And that could be part of the healing of, I was able to move on from these material items that are easily replaceable, a mild inconvenience for sure. It certainly costs money. And I'm not trying to say that money isn't important and whatever, but these are material items that you have been living without and you can continue to living without. And I just think the more examples you can give yourself of things that you can let go of will help you move on from this and just have it not be something that every once in a while, every other day, you get triggered or reminded by something. and it's normal for a period of time. But eventually the cars they used to drive or the songs you used to listen to or the foods you used to eat or the restaurants you used to go to

won't constantly remind you of them. You just won't care. And to do that, you have to let go of these thoughts of, oh, she was wearing my hoodie or I left this jacket or whatever it was or just let it all go. Okay. It's like a bug bite. Like it's itchy as hell. I would totally be thinking about my jacket and be like, or you know just let it all go okay it's like a bug bite like it's itchy

as hell i would totally be thinking about my jacket be like are you fucking kidding like i i would want to itch too like to my core and it's like one of those tricky situations where it's like the only way the bug bite goes away is if you don't itch it so it is like so natural to want to itch it but it also i think is that much more impressive when you don't do it and you're like it would be so easy for me to get wrapped up in this and to let this take a little bit of energy, even though I don't want to let it, but it definitely is. So to be able to let it go, it's definitely a tricky kind of war against your brain's natural inclinations. But when you get to the other side of it, it's a really big accomplishment. That is such a good analogy.

I love that analogy. There's no way she knows about your the hoodie that the hoodie is yours she wouldn't wear it if she did god no i mean i would hope not but um it does look good on her i will admit um so yeah blocker blocker on tiktok oh i did yeah i can't i don't like that she's popping up on my for you page. I just want to let the whole thing go. Like, yeah, the history was hard to let go of, and I'm still in the process of doing it, but I definitely want to, I've already felt myself, I don't have like sleepless nights, you know, I'm less anxious with everything.

That's good. Yeah, listen, it sounds like you're definitely healing and you got a mild setback finding out he has a new girlfriend. You know, that's normal. It's understandable. But don't let this kind of fully bring you back. Keep the progress going. Don't relapse, so to speak.

He can't resurrect himself. He ain't Jesus. He died in my mind. So we're moving on. Yeah. And as far as the wedding goes i stopped thinking about the wedding it like she hasn't even sent out invoices so i actually haven't thought about it the people in my life keep bringing it up and i'm like can we worry about that well i would be

willing to bet that you're bringing it up to them or just him more than you realize so i think any friends that you think might be bringing up this situation or the wedding, just politely say, hey, I'm really working on just moving on. I guarantee you they'll be appreciative because I'm sure everyone around you thinks that you probably could move on.

And if anyone is enjoying talking about the drama with you, just say, hey, I'm really just trying to not talk about, not think about, I'm trying to just move on emotionally. You'd be doing me a huge favor if you could just not mention him to me or anything like that. I'm sure they will oblige, you know, but like you have to go out and ask them to just to politely not do that stuff or not bring up the wedding, like anything as it relates to him. You know, obviously the bride, if she wants to talk about her wedding with you, make it about her wedding and not her brother. But don't use the bride as a wants to talk about her wedding with you make it about her wedding and not her brother but don't use the bride as a way to like trick yourself into talking about the wedding and

internally you're making it about him and you're pretending it's not so i think it's really important that you're very honest with yourself in these situations about why you are having the conversations that you're having and who you're hanging out with and things like that, because you can, it's very easy to trick yourself and lie to yourself and keep yourself emotionally invested. So it sounds like you're on the right path. Just focus on that progress because it must've felt real good to not think about them in those days that you weren't, you know, just imagine, just think about the emotion. You must've felt lighter and more emotionally available for so many things, you know? So, you know, think about the emotion you must have felt lighter and more emotionally available

for so many things you know so definitely you know think about that i will well thank you guys so much all right seriously well we appreciate the update let us know let you know yeah if you lose this shit the wedding keep us posted oh for sure all right all right thanks so much guys all right take care bye-bye hold on to your kilts, dearies. Peacock original The Traitors is back with a new season of strategy, betrayal, sabotage and murder. This killer season features an all new celebrity cast that vulture hailed as reality royalty living in a Scottish castle for the ultimate murder mystery competition. We're talking fierce competitors, reality stars and public figures battling it out for a whopping cash prize. This season's cutthroat missions are next level, just like whatever Alan Cumming pulls out of his brilliantly eccentric wardrobe. One thing is for sure, these 21 players will do anything to avoid a plot in Alan's graveyard. Find out why critics and

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slash guarantees experts only available with TurboTax live. We have an update from our caller, Katie. She originally called in because of the situation ship with her CrossFit coach and then called in on the most recent classic update. And so we have a written update just to hear how she was doing last time. We spoke to her when I told her at this point, it's all her fault. Yes. Yes. We did uh i think meet the hard what is it is it hard love tough love it was a yeah she was very you know she was in the i'm gonna make all the excuses in the world

to not do the one thing i know i need to do to stop the thing that i keep complaining about yeah i think she was also like really relatable, really feeling the friction of like, wait, it's one thing to say I need to leave this gym. It's another thing to like actually go through the inconvenience of like leaving this community, et cetera. So we spoke to her. You were very fervent on making some changes, really cutting him out. Did she leave the gym?

So thanks for checking in. I'm doing a lot better. Since we've last spoke, I visited three different gyms. I haven't found one that's a good fit for me just yet, but I'm doing a lot better. Since we last spoke, I visited three different gyms. I haven't found one that's a good fit for me just yet, but I'm optimistic. I'm still training at my current gym in between. I've been taking classes that my ex doesn't coach, so I've been able to avoid him for the most part. If I do happen to see him when he's there, I make sure to have my friend or sister as a buffer there with me. I've been in communication with another gym owner and texting about doing a 30-day trial.

Thanks again for reaching out. I appreciate all the help and advice you guys have offered me through the last few months. So she's making moves. Okay. I still think she's dragging her feet. She doesn't have to find the perfect gym. Katie, if you're listening. She just needs to leave the gym.

I really hope you've pulled the trigger by now. And I have faith that you have but we'll be hopefully getting another it's just one of those things whether we need to get over a person or a situation maybe we got involved in some drama with a group of people

it's just we're human beings and we we aren't machines. We can't just turn off things that matter to us. We can't just shut down that part of our brain that emotionally trigger us and things like that. It's just one of like, she is never going to be fully over this until she has enough break of time with no access to him. And so is it better?

Sure. But she even said she, she still runs into him. She still sees him. She has to, you know, think about it. Think about it. Think of the emotional energy it takes for her to go to her sister or her friends and you need to be that buffer or just the emotional energy to know that you might run into your ex. And every time she steps foot in that gym, it takes such emotional energy that keeps your body and your mind stuck in that mental space. And until she frees herself of that,

she's always going to be stuck. That's why if you're stalking your ex, if you're looking at their Instagram stories, I know it's hard. I know it's difficult. But if you really want to be free of them, if you really want to move on from the person, I'm guessing, if you're out there, if you're struggling moving on with someone and you've said to your friends, I just want to get over it. I just want to be happy. I'm just tired of feeling this way. If that is you, you got to help yourself.

You got to block them delete their numbers you've got to do you have to take the extremes and stop making the excuses of well i don't want to let them win and yada yada no you're letting them win by all the emotional energy you're putting into them still without being them a part of your life and that energy that we have is priceless. It's not limitless. We only have so much. It's energy you could be putting into all sorts of different things, new hobbies, activities, things you could be learning. But no, you're stuck just obsessing over the idea of someone or who they might be dating. And again, I get it. I get it. I get it. I get it. I've been there. But you're not letting them win

by choosing to separate yourself from them and allow yourself to heal so that once you're healed, you can go back to whatever fucking gym you want because you've learned to move away and it's no longer a triggering event for you. So I know it's hard. I know it's a challenge, but do yourself a favor and stop focusing all your emotional

energy on someone you claim to not want to be a part of your life. And until you have gone out of your way to stop giving them access, you will never be free of them. If there's someone who you were thinking of while Nick was talking, who you know you need to block, I invite you to do that now. Yeah. I think you'll feel really powerful. Yeah. It's just one of those things that we waste so much of our energy and time on people that we know aren't healthy for us, that we say we want out of our lives, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And that's time you'll never get back. We can never get back time.

And the thing we waste the most in our life is our time and our energy on people that don't ask for it or don't deserve it. And it's up to you to stop wasting it. Welcome back, Madison. Hi, Nick. Hi, everyone. How's it going? It's going. Things are going very well. Very different from when I last called you back in November. Let's play a quick clip to remind our audience of your first call. We have a written update from our caller Madison, originally appearing in episode 507. She called in discussing the prospect of breaking up with a boyfriend who she was currently living with and sort of financially dependent on, and she didn't know

how to go about navigating this situation. I'm Madison. I'm 25, and I'm considering breaking up with my boyfriend and moving out. But one, I don't know if that's the right thing to do. And two, I'm also a little financially dependent on him. And I don't know how much that's weighing into my decision making. I mean, long story short, he's kind of thinking, he's like, okay, we either shit or get off the pot at this point. So that has just led into a bunch of other little fights. And I don't feel like i'm being loved to how i deserve to be loved if that makes sense i feel as though i'm the one doing a lot of the pursuing to him right now and trying to make sure he's happy where in turn he knows what i need and i don't think he's really giving me any of that yeah i

definitely think you should think about it and i think you you know i love that you guys are going to couples therapy and i don't think you're in a position to make a rash decision anytime soon. But I also don't think you need to be dragging this out for months either. Exactly. I also think while it might be wildly inconvenient and not ideal and there might be some like tough choices and some nights maybe sleeping on a mattress without furniture, you can do it. So Madison updated us and wrote, Hi there. Long story short, my ex and I are breaking up. May I just add the breakup was his decision.

When I was on the show, Nick recommended I write him a letter. I didn't end up writing a letter, but that night we spoke and I pretty much said what the letter would have said. That is when ex pretty much said he thought we should follow through with the breakup i moved into my parents house and he moved all of my stuff into a storage unit i had to find a new roommate a new apartment i have embarked on this pretty intense healing journey which has been paying off x and i are in no contact which has been hard in brackets i had to ignore his text but yet just uh found out yesterday he is seeing someone

new using seeing loosely as it's only been two months post breakup. I'm still living with my parents and we'll move back to name of U.S. city in mid-February. So why don't you give our audience a quick update about the call, your first call? What were you calling about? What advice did you get from us? Yeah. So I called back in November, right before Thanksgiving. I was kind of in a state of limbo with my boyfriend at the time, my ex-boyfriend, now current boyfriend at the time. I didn't know if we were going to break up, if I should have initiated that breakup. I was a little worried because I lived with him. He was 10 years older than me, financially dependent on him. I was a little worried because I lived with him. He was 10 years older than me, financially dependent on him. I was scared to kind of make that jump. And I just didn't feel like at the time I was being loved how I should be loved. And it was just a lot of confusion going on. And I was kind of scared to make that jump from being in a relationship to being single. And there were like a few other factors that I was just like, really confused about. And pretty much the advice that you all gave me, and Nick, it really resonated with me, what you said was, no matter what happens, like I'm strong enough to walk away. And even though it's scary, and even though I may have to

be, you gave the analogy of when you lived on your grandma's sofa, like, everything will work out and everything will be okay. And that really just resonated with me. And I was like, okay, like, will work out and everything will be okay. And that really just resonated with me. And I was like, okay, like whatever happens, it'll be fine. And then we ended up breaking up. It wasn't my decision. I really wanted to go in fighting and try to like make the relationship last, but he ultimately just said that he didn't think we were compatible. And I was like, all right, well, there's my answer. I think I would have stayed a lot longer and I was kind of willing to fight. Like I really didn't want the breakup to happen. So we broke up in November. I went home for Thanksgiving. My parents live like five hours away from where I currently live. So I went home for Thanksgiving

and he moved all my stuff, put everything into a storage for me. I lived with my parents for three months. We didn't talk. We didn't see each other. I moved back to my current city, have a new apartment, have a new roommate, kind of creating this whole new life for myself. And that's where you're at now? That's mostly where I'm at now. One reason why I wanted to speak to you again right now is because part of just the crazy dynamic that I was scared of leaving was his family obviously became very close to me. We dated for about two years.

And he has a younger brother and sister, soon to be sister-in-law, that became some of my best friends. And we were all just very much like a big family unit. And brother and sister-in-law are getting married in a month. And I was asked to be a bridesmaid before the breakup. And up until recently, I was like, no big deal. Like I will be fine at the wedding. My ex is the best man.

Like I was totally down to go and just suck it up. But as of like last week, I'm like, I don't think I want to go to this wedding and put myself in that situation. So what are you going to do? I need to talk to my friend. I'm actually planning on seeing her tomorrow. And I just want to let her know, like, I don't think in my healing journey, being there is going to help me for context.

It's a very small wedding, like 70 people, I think. And it's going to be at my ex's mom's house. She lives on the beach. So it's very much like I'm walking mom's house she lives on the beach so it's very much like i'm walking into this house but we have holidays as a family and it's just and how often how often are you talking to the bride these days um i mean we go to orange theory together so i'll see her a couple times a week but we have like we very much have a friendship outside of the relationship and i'm friends she should understand this right i mean i think i would

hope so and up like she has been very understanding like whatever it is comfortable june 3rd so like in a month okay it's coming up yeah so you should let her know sooner than later um but yeah listen it's pretty simple honor that you asked i really want to be there i really do but i have made a lot of progress getting over your brother as hard as it is to admit is really hard. You know it. It's been challenging, but I've made a lot of progress. And I honestly just don't think, I know it's your day. I want to be selfless, but I just think it's going to really set me back.

And I'm not going to do anyone any good. I just don't think I should go. She should be able to understand this. That's what I want to say. My only fear, and I know this is more so my ego talking, which I kind of wanted to walk through with you, is the breakup happened. It's been just over five months. Should I be strong enough to be able to go to this wedding and just be there for my friend?

It's sad that I'm going to miss, forget the ex and all that. I'm going to miss one of my good friend's weddings. I'm sad to miss, forget the ex and all that. Like I'm going to miss one of my good friends weddings. Like I'm sad about that. But part of me is like, should I go and like be there and just like forget my ex and just be there for my friend and all the other people I'm friends with? Or should I really just be like, no, I'm not going. I'm sorry. Well, it sounds, I mean, based off your words, you think it'll set you back.

It'll fuck with you. And that's okay to acknowledge. You know, you're not completely indifferent yet. You've made a ton of progress. And you're right. It's a very intimate setting. You're going to be kind of on an island. You're not bringing a date.

It's just going to be a very emotionally taxing wedding. And yes, it would be very selfless of you to go. But like, you're not going to make or break her wedding as long as she doesn't allow it to happen. It's a complicated situation, you know, good for you that you've been able to remain friends with his siblings and his sister specifically, but that is a lot, you know, and as your friend, all she needs to do, she doesn't have to like it and she can be sad and disappointed, but she should be able to understand it. Yeah and i you know i just i'm pretty sure she will be able to understand it and part of me

is frustrated at myself because truly when i like accepted this and like in the midst of the breakup like december january when it was like really hard i was like okay should i just back out now and back then i was like come june, come May, like I will be fine. And like now May and June is here. And you could say, listen, I feel bad because I probably should have told you earlier, but I really thought I would be okay. And I'm just trying to be honest with myself. I just won't be. honest with myself i just won't be is there potentially a middle ground that you would feel comfortable with like going to the wedding itself but then maybe not joining for the reception

no not i thought about that i'm just trying to think through logistics we're all gonna be well yeah we're talking about her emotional well-being here and at the end of the day if she's taking the trip to go at the wedding and just leave, I mean, the damage has been done. You know, just because she's not torturing herself anymore, she's going to have complicated thoughts about leaving. Then she's going to be there. And then someone's going to be like, oh, no, you should stay. And then like, you know, and then all of a sudden she gets sucked in and roped into the

reception. Like there's too many like variables at play. I think she just doesn't go. The bride needs to understand this and like I her going creates more scenarios that are not about the bride than if she doesn't go I think it's also for like peace of mind to do the due diligence of like running through all the various options on the table of being like what if I just went to the reception what if I just went to the start like you know kind of like going through all of that and then being like okay none of that works okay I should

feel really like confident I've done all the math, tried to think of every possible way that there might be like a compromise in this situation. Like that's just not really feasible. And so like here I am, like kind of landing on that point, but like having peace of mind because you've considered other things. Yeah. And I will say, Nick, I've been like an avid listener to this pod for a while and I read your book and really it wasn't until I guess I spoke to you in November when I've really started paying attention to like, what does my ego want and what is like actually right in this situation? And I think up until like last week when I came to this decision, my ego wanted to be

at the wedding to be like, look at how good I look. Look at like, how much your family loves me. Like, this is like, do you regret it now? And up until I ran into my ex last week and I was just like, oh, this isn't fun. Like, I don't feel good about it. I was like, you know what? My ego wants me to be there to have him miss me, which isn't going to change a darn thing. Like if he hasn't missed me up until this point him seeing me in a pretty dress is not going to change anything like me not going is what is right in my healing journey and what is just going to be right in the long term like well good how are they going to feel shittier yeah good for you for having an honest

conversation with yourself and you're right yeah i mean don't tell your friend that no that's why you really want to go uh but you running into him is a great excuse as to like why you're letting her know now you got caught off guard but yeah i i don't think you need to do the whole mental gymnastics of figuring out a middle ground like there's no middle ground when it comes to knowing that you putting yourself in a situation just might fuck with the emotional progress you've made you know because there's no there's no half doing this you know you want to not see him right you want to not be worrying about what he's thinking about you you want to not be like invested in he's thinking about you. You want to not be like invested in like, you know, everything you just talked about. And the only way to ensure that you don't do that is to simply not go. Yeah.

And that's pretty much where I'm at. And I think a second like caveat of this question is I obviously really love my friendship with her, but it's proven to be hard. Like in my email to you, I mentioned they bought the house, like a stove throw away from the house that I lived in with her, but it's proven to be hard. And my email to you, I mentioned they bought the house, like a stove throw away from the house that I lived in with my ex. So they live right across the street from him. So it's a challenge. Yeah.

I mean, listen, breakups are hard for a lot of different reasons. And the residual part is the friends and family that kind of come with the person that you were dating when you break up. You know, we want to stay friends with their exes and we want to stay friends with their siblings and their parents. But like, yeah, I mean, I've had some very serious girlfriends that are no longer in my life. And when I was dating them, I was close with their parents

and I was close with their siblings. I got to know their cousins, their aunts and uncles. You know, now they're strangers to me now. And, you know, it's sad. How do you navigate? Like, how do I get there without being like, I don't ever want to talk to you again? You just kind of let it play out. You know you know like you guys are going to live your life she's about to get married she's going to be preoccupied she's going to be busy you say you

run into an ordinary theory keep that relationship there it could be like drinks after working out but you can keep your distance without making it feel like you're rejecting her and again i'm i think she's going to be busy with stuff too, and we'll just run its course. But I think most people in your situation, for a lot of reasons, including ego, they try to be resistant to the fact, no, I could be friends with them. You stubbornly go, well, I'm not going to lose a friend over this just because I lost a partner. So it's like, no, I'm going to... You really go out of your way to be friends with these people and friends with their siblings. And it's like, no, I'm going to, you know, you really, you go out of your way to be friends with these people and they're friends with their siblings and, you know, and it's understandable why. But maybe you just accepting that you're okay with the possibility that it might just be healthier for you to like let any distance that can come naturally without you putting in more effort, just accepting that that's okay.

more effort, just accepting that that's okay. Maybe you're not the one who's constantly reaching out. Maybe she's not your go-to for the invite to a concert you got tickets to or whatever it is. You invite other friends. And if she invites you out or you see her at working out, it's like you can't talk to her. But I'm just saying, you don't need to go out of your way just stubbornly to make sure you don't lose this friendship. And I think it'll all just play out the way it should. Yeah, no, I agree with that. And what you said earlier really hit home for me about being resistant to like letting go of friends. And more specifically, when I moved back to the city, I moved back into the neighborhood that I lived in with him. I've lived here before I met him and I was very resistant to be like, I mean, I very much was like, I moved here before I even met him.

Like, this is my neighborhood. It's my HEB. It's my, you know, all this stuff. And I was very resistant to moving. So I've moved back. And I think after being here for a couple months now, I've realized like, it kind of sucks. Like I've run into him at the park on a walk a couple of times. And anytime I'm driving anywhere, I'm like, oh, hope I don't see him. And like, that's been really hard to come through. And I was pretty stubborn about that back earlier this year when I was figuring out where to move. And it's kind of proven and biting the ass at this point. Yeah. These are all very valuable lessons that you're learning and good for you again, for, for acknowledging it because we often make life more difficult on ourselves emotionally by kind of stubbornly insisting that we're capable of doing something when, you know,

no points are awarded for, you know, this type of stuff, you know, things take time. You tried it, you know, but acknowledging that, you know, next time uh you tried it you know but acknowledging that you know next time you have an opportunity to move to a different neighborhood maybe you take yourself up on that opportunity you know yeah i'm like trying to break my lease at this point i just wanted to get your advice on one more thing if we have time um as i mentioned i've run into my ex a few times on the streets and stuff and we're when i'm going on walks, we shared a dog together. So he's always with our puppy, which is like super hard to see. Yeah. Yeah. And I would say up until I see him, I'm like, screw him. Like the pain he put me through all this like shit that I've had to gone through, like, I hate him, you know, that feeling.

And then I see him and it's like, hey, like, how's it going? Like, we chit chat and everything's fine. We don't talk about the relationship. But then I have to say goodbye. And it sucks. I'm like, why am I not strong enough to be like, screw you. I'm turning around like we're not talking. Because, you know, you had a lot of love for him.

At the end of the day, while he decided to move on, it doesn't make him a horrible person. And so when you see him, you have a natural chemistry with him. It's just easier. So yeah, I get the whole like, fuck him or whatever, because you don't want to go down this kind of reminiscing about the good times and nostalgia and things like that. But I think maybe there is a middle

ground there of you don't need to say fuck you or fuck him you could challenge yourself to not think about him when you can you know you could be mindful but like oh i'm thinking about him i need to stop what else can i think about you know do that okay so not even necessarily like this anger i have but it's indifference and you you brought up that word earlier. I would say I'm pretty much 90% of the time have this indifference of him. But then when I see him on the streets, why am I not strong enough to quite literally be like, I don't want to talk to you right now and just walk away. Because you're caring. You still care about what he thinks about you. Yeah.

I also think we're so conditioned to like choose harmony. Like that is the way we are like socialized as kids is like, how do you behave in a way where you're going to get along with people and not be an issue? Like we are like, you know, it's a human thing for women. I think there's a particular flavor of it, of like just like being conditioned to like know how to engage in a way that's going to make things harmonious and simple and clean. And so like that instinct, like when you're kind of on your own, like you don't really have to fight that instinct because it only arises like when you're in this situation. So I think like give yourself some credit that there's a bunch of stuff that comes up when you see him that like you as much as you can try, you can't simulate in your brain ahead of time and practice dealing with. like not beating yourself up. And then maybe just like, maybe next time it's like the bar is lower.

Like maybe you say hi, but like maybe the conversation is just a little shorter. Like it takes time to like undo these things that we've like internalized for our whole lives. Also, I just think you still care about what he thinks about you. No, I do. Definitely. I mean, Amanda's not wrong, but you know, I think if you just acknowledge yourself, I still care what he thinks about me. That's not helping me get over. I need to stop. And so it is like if you see him, it's okay to walk the other way, even if he sees it.

Your ego doesn't want him to think that he still has any power over you or control. Who gives a shit? It is. I'm giving you permission to say i don't want to see you you could see him turn the other way it doesn't who cares what he thinks about that interaction no and that's 100 where i want to be yet and i think that's why i had this revelation with the wedding literally a week ago because i was i saw him a week ago and i had to say goodbye to him and that hurt and i was was like, why do I even care?

Because you're not fully healed. And there's that part of you that hopes that he sees you in a pretty wedding dress and reconsiders his decision and has regret. That's his normal, natural feeling. But that's why you care. And that's why you're polite. And that's why you don't follow through with these fantasies of telling him off or things like that. So yeah, admit that you care that it doesn't, it's a normal feeling. And then just after you acknowledge it,

it's okay to say, well, I can, I can stop caring at any point. I can stop caring because it doesn't matter what he thinks about me. You know, I'm not with him anymore. It doesn't matter what he thinks about me. I'm not with him anymore. It doesn't matter if he thinks that he could have you back or not have, it doesn't matter. I'm really trying to work on that mindset. And again, that's kind of the, that was the push is to me not going to this wedding because I, up until recently, I was like, who cares?

Like, I'm gonna go, like, I'll be nice, I'll be civil. And now I'm like, screw that. Like, I'm not putting myself in that situation. And I think I'm very proud that I've come to that. I mean, every inch of me wants to be like, no, just go. But I think this is step one and really just releasing this attachment and this hold I have to him. Yeah. I couldn't agree more. And I really commend you for having these kind of honest conversations with yourself and not letting your ego dictate you these choices. And you're being vulnerable with yourself by saying,

hey, listen, I care more than I want. I'm still not totally over it. You know, that's okay. I still have more progress to make when it comes to healing. That's also okay. So I'm going to stop putting myself in these vulnerable situations and torturing myself that have these like little moments of setbacks

that make me still kind of, that make me think kind of that make me think about him more and make me wonder about him more and want his validation and want his consideration. And so you're doing all the right things. You're being more mindful of what your emotional needs are and you're following through with that rather than giving into what your ego wants and the validation that you think you deserve. I've been trying really hard. I went through a breakup a few years ago and I was like a total psycho afterwards, like drunk calling and texting. It took me like so long to get over it. And then with this breakup, when I left, I literally left

and I was like, I'm never going to talk to this guy again. And I like went home for three months, didn't talk. And obviously I've seen him a couple of times here. So I've really been trying so hard to like redeem myself from that last breakup and like do this quote unquote the right way. And I really think I've done a lot of great strides. I mean, it's still human. It's still hard. And I still like you clearly have, you've made a ton of progress. I mean, I can tell that you're someone who's really like focused on trying to get over a difficult heartbreak the right way. I mean, it's evident talking to you, but the pain that you're going to naturally feel is going to come. It's just how you process that pain becomes not necessarily easier, but you don't sit in it as

long. You know, you don't unnecessarily torture yourself. I mean, the first time you face heartbreak, it's new and complicated. We don't even know what to do with it. And then we have all these kind of warped kind of ideas of what we should do with it that ultimately just torture ourselves even more. It's like, what does it mean? Or I need to do this to find meaning. Or then we have this hope and you're clearly getting far better at accepting just in general and that takes time and and and then acknowledging hey i thought i could i thought i could live here turns out i'm not ready yet and i can admit that to myself and that doesn't make me any less of a person doesn't make me any less stronger in fact it does it makes me stronger to acknowledge that to myself you know you're

you're you are getting far better at protecting yourself and you're getting far better at leading with your heart and less with your ego and being willing to put yourself in healthier situations just because you're willing to be honest with yourself about what you need emotionally. And so there's follow through with that. And again, while it's a bummer, you're not going to go to your friend's wedding. It's totally reasonable. If she's worth having as a friend, she'll understand. Yeah.

I'm supposed to see her tomorrow and we're going to go on a walk in the morning. And I just have this pit in my stomach. I just hate letting people down. But at this point- I don't know. I don't want to let you down. I feel bad, but I really- I'm don't want to let you down I feel bad but like I really I'm just so close to being like fully healed and like this is like the last big hurrah I have to get the other

day I want her wedding to be a good memory for you and like you going to that wedding might make it a really bad memory yeah I think so you know I just want to touch on one more thing that I've gotten really from listening to your podcast and reading the book has been the practice of like letting these feelings come without being so angry at myself, like putting so much pressure on yourself. For example, I would say early in the breakup and my previous breakup, I'd get, when I was sad, I'd be like, this is never going to end. Like I'm going to feel sad forever. And now I've really learned like, okay,

I'm sad right now. I'm sure I'm going to wake up tomorrow and be happy again. And then when I'm happy, instead of being so scared, like this happiness is going to end. I've been like, okay, I'm happy now. I might be sad tomorrow, but like this too shall pass. And I think that's been really helpful. And just this whole healing process and taking y'all's advice and the book has just been really great. Well, I appreciate you saying all of that. So thank you very much and just keep doing what you're doing. It'll, it takes time, but you're on the right path. And, and then you're learning from your mistakes, your mistake of kind of like, you know, being a little too stubborn and a little too ego driven with some of your choices following the breakup, but you can adjust. You're fixing the mistakes.

And over time, it will work out. I'm certain of it. You're doing all the right things. Thank you. That means a lot coming from you. All right. Well, thanks for the update. I appreciate it.

And keep us posted on how things, you know, what we really want an update with the conversation with a friend for sure. I will email y'all tomorrow afternoon. Hopefully it'll be done by then. Okay. All right. All right.

Thank you. Have a good day. You too. Bye-bye. Hold on to your kilts, dearies. Peacock Original The Traitors is back with a new season of strategy, betrayal, sabotage, and murder. This killer season features an all-new celebrity cast that Vulture hailed as reality royalty

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What are you doing? What do you mean? Just keep it simple. I'm making the promo. Just keep it simple. Just say, hey, we're the Brav Bros. Two guys that talk about Bravo. Ladies and gentlemen,

boys and girls, we're the Brav Bros. No. Oh. Dude, stop with the voice. Just keep it simple. I've seen promos on TV. Dude, this is how you get the fans engaged.

This is how you get listeners. We're trying to get listeners here. If we just say, oh, we're two dudes that talk about Bravo, people are going to get tired of it already. We need some oomph. All right, then fine. Let's try to do it with your voice. Bravo, bros. Good job.

We also have an update from our texting office hours caller, Haley. So she called in for episode 565 with Phoebe Robinson. We were talking love is blind. And she called in because way back when, when she had had a boyfriend, she had a meet you in the laundry room with a guy from her building who they had like a little moment and when she came back to get her clothing from the dryer he'd left her a note yeah yeah so now that she had like so when she called in she was like i'm single now and i want to shoot my shot i know it's been ages yeah but like didn't we send him a text yeah we sent him a text with a picture of the note and what was the message we sent? Something about... Okay, so she actually,

so she includes that in her update. So she says, thank you so much for checking in. Great speaking with all of you. Truly the highlight of my week. I think I was more nervous on that Zoom call than I was to text Laundry Guy,

whose name I now know, but will continue to save him in my phone as Laundry Guy because it's a fun memory. After we ended the call, I drafted a text, like Nix had suggested, and I sent a photo of the note.

It said, Hey, neighbor, this is the attractive woman you met in the laundry room. I finally got my clothes out of the dryer and was hoping you'd still be interested in grabbing a drink or coffee sometime.

I'm single now, smiley face. And by the way, my name is Haley. Did we get a reply? And so, sorry, I'm like, why is everyone looking at me? It's like we're at the literal end of the update. We're on the literal edges of our seat.

Everyone's like, what happened? Great. He responded right away, completely blown away that I kept his note all this time. Unfortunately for me, he is no longer single. But we had some good back and forth banter about the situation, shared some selfies to jog our memories. Wait, what? To jog our memories,

like a selfie of like, remember me? I'm sorry, the most, that would be the most high pressure selfie to take. It would take me 45 minutes to take a selfie of myself to send to that man. What do you think his new girlfriend would say? It seems like it was a very wholesome conversation. What would you say? I would want to say, well, it really depends on the phrasing of the text nick my neck your nick

yeah he's like babe guess what i got today well i got a random note from a girl i met in the laundromat super cute asked her out you weren't in my life yet i didn't hear back from her she responded to me today and obviously i let her know that I was in a relationship and then we exchanged selfies I sent her I took a selfie and I sent her a picture of me and she sent me a picture of her too and then I sent a dick pic how are you feeling okay are you're not immediately mad that he responded in the first place well he does not he hates photos of himself this is not about what you think Nick would or wouldn't do. So I would be pissed.

I'd be like, you took a fucking selfie for her. Do you know a lot of guys who, other than myself, who like taking selfies? There's, I agree. That's a fair point. But there's different. There's a spectrum of how averse you are. He's very far on that spectrum. He fucking hates photos.

How many guys do you know? I would want to see the text. I would want to see the text is what I would want to do because like i would want to be able to like suss out the vibe and also if he doesn't want to show me the text right away that's a huge red flag it's not ideal but i don't think it's definitively shitty i would say it's definitively shitty yeah i mean but i'd be like if i found out that natalie got a text from like a former secret admirer i would be like, if I found out that Natalie got a text from like a former secret admirer. I would be like, why did you respond in the first place? And then if I found out they were sending selfies, I would be furious.

And I don't feel like I'm on Jealous Island here. It's a little sus. It's a flag. Like it's a flag to ask more questions. I mean, I understand the nostalgia of and I don't know how new this relationship is but good news for our caller he is

definitely more interested than he should be even though he has a girlfriend well okay so he's no longer single but we had some good back and forth he might be single soon shared some selfies to jog

our memories and he asked if he could reach back out to me if he finds himself single again yeah by the way babe and i said just in case it doesn't work out between the two of us by the way i love you i did tell her to like keep my number just in case things don't work out who knows maybe he's just been dating this chick for a week but he certainly didn't tell her about it and i'd be fucking pissed if I were the new girlfriend. Yeah. Hmm.

I, yeah, I think it would. Also, I want to point out if, if I remember this correctly, our wonderful caller who, when first received this message was in a relationship, did they not, they didn't, did they say, Hey, got your message. Super cute. Here's a picture selfie of me, by the way, I they say, hey, got your message, super cute, here's a picture, selfie of me, by the way, I have a boyfriend, but in case things don't work out, I'll hit you up? No, she didn't respond. She didn't reach out. She did nothing. She appropriately did nothing. Even though she was flattered by it, and even though she was charmed by that, and even though

she thought he was hot, even though she thought, man, this never fucking happens to me when I'm single. Of course, it's happened to me when I'm in love, but she appropriately did nothing. Now, she saved it, but she didn't reach out. To be fair, she didn't save it. The only reason she still had it

is because she sent a photo of it to her friend of like, oh my God, look what happened. So even better. Yeah, the friend had it. So she sent a photo of it to her friend like oh my god look what happened so even better yeah so she appropriately she appropriately did nothing with it other than text her friend to say hey you know this i still got it i still got it this happened to me yada yada um this fucker immediately responds i'm curious how the selfies talk was initiated also does it matter well i i mean i'm just like curious how it would matter how it would be like you know what now that i've heard the full context of the story you've convinced me where i'm like

okay this is definitively a little shady or like definitely not best practices. Certainly not. This is not like a... Well, my question is, if he needed a selfie to jog his memory, how many laundry rooms does he leave his notes in? Yeah, why do they have to exchange selfies? Well, I think it had just been so long. Like, I think this was like months and months ago.

And it was just a random, they had a cute little moment. To Allie's point, I mean, either this guy is just like writing a note from every person in laundromat we can't possibly like listen I meet a lot of people every day I'm bad at faces you know I meet so many people there's a lot of people well I'm like I have I've never met you before like yeah I know we've met and I'm like oh fuck you know but you would think that you know

you if you had the guts to like do something like write this note and put yourself out there that you would remember that person's face from a few months ago. Yeah. And it makes me think he's trying to gauge, like, remind me how cute you were. So I know if I should break up with my girlfriend or not.

He's like, are you worth it? Yeah. It was like, make up a lie about being very like obsessive about your contacts, needing to have a first and last name and then stalk them on the internet like a normal person. We don't.

A hundred bucks says it was him. Oh yeah. Yeah. He's like oh I'm just like you know having my like latte frappuccino blah blah blah doing some work at the bucks you know. How's your day going? At the bucks. Men are either so like loose-lipped with the selfies like

they're sending them off like it's no one's business or they're very they'll send one if they want to get one in return the only reason a guy has ever sent a picture of himself is because he wants something in return he is never just like how's my outfit i mean if you're in a relationship with someone and you like i'm just saying like yeah they want something ever back back and usually it's similar to what they're willing to send you i think i i wonder if it's like the rom-com of it all is making them both behave a little worse than they would have well i don't know if our caller really did anything other than maybe not clock the fact that he... Yeah, you're right.

...didn't necessarily... He's not representing himself very well as boyfriend material. I think it's fucking suspect. Anyway, I'm glad he wrote back, but he's a little sus. He also almost certainly will... He won't...

He's not marrying this person. If it doesn't work out, I'll let you know. She'd be pissed. Welcome back, Debbie. You're the next contestant. Hi, Nick. How are you? So good. How are you? What's new? What's going on? I'm not so great. We will get into that.

There's been quite a lot of development since last time we spoke. All right. Bring us up to speed. So this is your second update. And last time we talked, you were dabbling in the dating women arena. Yes. So I was dating a man and a woman and deciding which one to go with. They said it was like the final road, like who would get the final rose.

And? And so I ended up dating the woman, continuing to go with that. Okay. Did we offer any advice with that? You did. You said to kind of be in the moment and to not get in my head around every little thing. Like when that guy changed his profile while we were dating, like to not really get into it and kind of just enjoy the moment since I was on that date looking at his

hinge when he was in the bathroom. Gotcha. Let's play a quick clip from your previous calls. Welcome back, Debbie. Thank you. I'm excited to be here. Excited to have you back. So last time we spoke, you had a great date. It was like a coworker friend or something like that. A fun hangout at a basketball game. Yeah, it's a basketball game. A little make out. A little make out.

And he was great. But then afterwards, he sent some over the top texts that kind of gave you the ick. So I responded back asking him what a tryst was to be like genuinely to see what he would say to that. But anyways, he's kind of like game over, no pun intended basketball. Okay, do you have a new development? We moved on? We fired him? Okay, we have someone new. We've moved on. Okay. Um, well, we have a couple people. I went on a date with this guy a few times. It was scary for me to get no red flag. So then he went to the bathroom. And then as I do, I went to go on it. I went into Hinge profile

because we're still matched. We matched on Hinge originally. And to see if he's any like updates on it while we were seeing each other. And he updated one of his pictures to a picture I took of him, which is so I know he's like active on there. Why are you going on his Hinge profile in the middle of a date? You're looking for issues. I agree with you. I am in therapy for this. Yeah, it's all right. No, I mean, the current situation, it's actually not a guy that I'm seeing.

Oh, okay. Yeah. So I'm actually seeing a woman in this new update. Yeah. So I'm actually seeing a woman in this new update. And it's just kind of a different scenario where I'm not getting any red flags like this. It's like a different experience for me. I would definitely come back with an update if you will have me back. Keep us updated. Absolutely. And let me know what you think of the book.

Well, you want an update for you because I feel like you're the bachelorette and you're down to like your final two people. And I want to know who gets your final rose. We're down to follow your story, Debbie. All right. So where are we now? So I dated this woman and we, it's been like a couple months and it was honestly very solid. I was feeling really confident with myself and I actually even told my parents about it, which was a big deal for me as well. So this kind of like meant a lot to me in a lot of ways. I learned kind of far in the relationship that she was non monogamous, learning that like late into kind of our relationship was kind of unfair in a lot of ways. And when she told me that I

liked her so much, I tried to just accept it and just make it work for myself, even though I was like, not being true to my own values about it. And yeah, I got really in my head about it. And it ended up turning into be a disaster and so I'm calling because I'm like not over the situation and I feel like I yeah just like moving on I feel like it was you're not you're no longer dating this woman anymore yeah what happened breakup was very odd and I was having trouble getting past it what happened yeah so we talked about the monogamy thing at Arrow One, actually. The monogamy thing. What was the monogamy?

Mahogany. What was the monogamy? Monogamy? What was the not fucking other people thing? Yeah. So we had, I was on a trip. I came back and we went on a date and she told me that she was seeing somebody else and I've seriously and it really like took me off guard and I was upset by it to say

the least. And so you wanted monogamy. No, I want it. She didn't. Yeah. Gotcha. I don't really ask questions around it. I think too, like that was maybe part of the the issue but she told me this and I wanted to

talk more about it so we set up a date at era one to talk about it and we were sitting there talking about it and I felt like she was not very like open and it was kind of hard to like get anything out of her about it and I just told her I like was not okay with it and I really like her and I can't really see myself seeing her if she's seeing other people basically she still wanted to see you though yeah she wanted to like have her cake and eat it too situation I don't know I was really like upset in that conversation and both of us I think like kind of froze didn't know what to do since we both liked each other a lot so we ended up like leaving and hugging and being like, okay, we'll think about it. And then the week after that conversation, it was kind of like normal.

Like we would text every day being like, how are you? How's your day? Send voice notes for usual, like long voice notes. And it kind of was confusing. And I guess I was trying to set up like a next date to like see her in person because I'm not a huge like do this over text situation. So I made a date. I was like, look, like we had a conversation, Erewhon. It was intense.

Let's talk on Saturday about this. Let's go for coffee and talk about it. We kept saying like, we'll talk on Saturday. That was kind of the move we both planned on. It comes to Saturday right before you were supposed to meet, she cancels. And I was really upset since we had talked about this. And then basically, I sent her a note saying I was upset. I saw on her Instagram story, she was like with people.

She said she was sick. Obviously, she was not sick. So I sent her a note to follow up. And then basically, a day and a half later, she sent me a voice note. This was actually two days ago. Um, sends me a long voice note, like basically ending it and being like, I'm open to do a phone call or FaceTime for closure. Um, I was like, great, let's do a call. Um, she never shows up to that call. So that's where I'm at right now. And that like sucks what

sucks about it what are you gonna miss the most about being in a relationship with her i mean like everything i honestly thought it was all good that's not an answer that's not an answer that's what am i gonna miss about her yeah like the banter like i guess our like connection and being able to be like vulnerable and open it was very deep it was a deep emotional connection and i felt like i was owed that ending yeah and she i mean it certainly would have been nice it would have been the considerate thing for her to do i mean what other than just the ability to have some nice conversations are you going to miss? The physical, the emotional piece. Kind of like you're able to have fun.

And I don't know. I guess a lot of elements I saw. She was very driven herself. She has her own side hustle. Yeah, she has a lot of great qualities in her. And it was all very attractive to me. And I mean, I came out to my parents about it. Clearly, it meant a lot to me.

Sure. I'm just like, I'm upset. This is the first woman you've ever dated. Seriously. Yeah. That in itself, I would imagine could be kind of intense and new. And the fact that you were rejected by her,

I can imagine that might fuck with you. This is all to say like, you know, maybe just got to give yourself some time and some grace. Most breakups are, are shitty and rejection sucks. And when we're rejected by someone, we do this weird thing, like put them on a pedestal. But I'm just wondering if maybe

it's just more everything that you're sad about and the fact that she was inconsiderate during the breakup and things like that. But I doubt very much that she is going to be irreplaceable. And so I think you just have to accept and grieve the loss. I think you would serve yourself well if you would just accept the fact that she was inconsiderate and that maybe she's just more of an inconsiderate person than you thought she was. And then move on. Rather than tell yourself that you are owed this by her. And then that you, and then she basically has a debt to pay.

Because when we say things like, well, I deserve this. I was owed this by them. Well, in your mind, then you're kind of thinking, well, then they, well, if they haven't given you what they owed you, they still owe you. And then therefore you have to hold them accountable. And then you have a hard time letting go of the thing that you think they owe you. Except that she, this is how she handled it. That can be part of the moving on process. Like, hey, what I want is a considerate person.

When we were vibing, when she was getting what she wanted when she needed, we had good chemistry. She met my emotional needs. But when things weren't going her way, I couldn't count on her. Being able to count on someone is a big part of a relationship

and a big part of being able to count on someone is their willingness to step up when you need them, not just only when they're available and so you would be better served thinking of the narrative that way rather than I was owed this by her and I still haven't gotten it. So therefore I need to keep telling myself that she owes me and then stay emotionally kind

of stuck and invested in her. Yeah. I mean, I guess I keep going back in my mind. I keep saying that line. I keep going back. That's kind of where that's your problem right now. I understand. back. That's your problem right now. I understand. I'm a professional keep going back kind of guy. I like to ruminate about things, so no judgment. But when you say, I keep going back, you have to stop keep going back and reliving that relationship over and over in your head, either thinking about what she should have done or thinking about what you could have done. None of that matters at this point. She has chosen to not prioritize you in the relationship that you had. And while as sad as that might make you, you accepting that reality is going to help you move forward faster. But replaying things in your head is just going to keep you emotionally stuck. Yeah. I mean, the non-monogamy situation,

like non-monogamy was new to her. She was kind of exploring that. Yeah. So she's on an adventure on herself. So even that should help you accept that it was less about you and the rejection that you feel and more about her journey was just different than yours. So that should help you take it less personally. That should help trigger your ego less. Now you just have to accept that it's over. Stop telling yourself you're owed something by her. We're not really owed anyone's consideration. It's nice. It's really nice. It's nice to be considered. It's nice to have people be considerate to us. Are we owed that? You know, debatable. But we get ourselves stuck when we tell ourselves that people owe us these things and we deserve more respect. And like, yeah, again, that's nice. But instead of saying we are owed this by us and then us wasting our emotional energy to hold

these people accountable because they owe us this. We just need to accept that they aren't the considerate person we wanted them to be. They aren't the emotional available person that we thought they were or wanted them to be. And then see that as a shortcoming in them and their ability to be the partner that you want and deserve. And that should help you move on and saying, well, they're just not my person. Rather than reliving all these situations to figure out what you could have done differently or should have done differently. None of that's going to change the present. She just wants to explore things with other people. She wants a variety that literally has nothing to do with you. And as much as she enjoys your companionship, she's prioritizing

that over you. And that is okay. And that makes a lot of sense, given where she's at. I mean, does that make this any less real, though? I feel like I keep like... I never really understood that term, that real. People are like, well, did it mean anything? That's just your ego talking. What do you mean? Were you dreaming this whole thing?

Of course it was real. It happened. And unless you were dreaming or on drugs or whatever, this relationship happened. It just didn't meet your expectations. It didn't play out the way you planned. You got a little ahead of yourself, but of course it happened. And it was meaningful when it felt meaningful, it was meaningful. It's just, you have to like, you're doing the thing that so many of us have done is try to, you know, like, well, if it's, if it doesn't mean anything in this moment, then it never did. It's not that black and white. It's as meaningful as you want it to be. What did you learn from this? You know, what can you take from this? If you learn nothing

from it, then, you know, it wasn't very productive, but you know, it was the first woman you've ever dated. Of course, that's meaningful to you. I also think like in my experience, like the first woman I dated seriously, like, oh my God, like there were ways that we connected even though i'd you know dated several dudes beforehand like just like that like blew it out of the water and just like little specificities yeah so many little things must have felt special about it a hundred percent and i think it's like really hard especially when you only have kind of one central reference point to like figure out okay like what of this is stuff that I'm experiencing now that I am like living like in with this part of me kind of in the full light,

like I am embracing fully like all of the desires or like just like where I'm at sexuality wise. And like having that be something that is like, you're kind of bringing your full self to a relationship in a way you haven't before. And then I'm sure like this person also like you had so much chemistry with her. Like she was really fun. And so it's like a tangled mess of like what was like her being fun and charming.

And what was this was like, oh, I'm like leaning into myself and like having this like really fulfilling like exploration and like new knowledge of myself. Yeah, I almost feel like I'm not really an exploratory phase. Like I kind of felt like for me in this situation, like I felt like this was like I was ready to jump in to a relationship potentially with this specific one. So I guess, Nick, what do I do in a situation where. How long were you dating this person for? I would say like three and a half ish months. Like basically, if they tell me like later on that they don't want a relationship,

like I guess how do I, like, should I remove myself automatically if I'm feeling like I want a relationship and they don't, or is this something? Essentially. Yeah. If three and a half months is a reasonable time for sure to say, Hey, I, I want to commit to this. I want us to stop seeing other people. I'm not asking him for us to get married, but I want to prioritize this and see where it goes. This is why I want to invest my energy when it comes to dating. And if they say, hey, listen, not for me. Yes. Essentially, everyone out there who's in that situation should enforce that boundary that they have communicated, that they've set for themselves, and they should stop seeing them. Otherwise, you're just giving them no reason to

change their mind. You're not creating any urgency. Yeah, I guess that's what our conversation was. I was trying to get at Erewhon, and when she was not willing, I guess, or able to... Willing. Willing to be monogamous. Yeah. I don't know. I just really wish we got that closure call.

I think I'm just waiting on my phone for her to be like, oh, sorry, I was busy yesterday. Why do you wish it so badly? In your wildest dreams, what was she going to say that was going to make you feel better assuming she's not going to say i've changed my mind i want to be monogamous with you i mean if we could have just like wrapped it up and said how mutually like mutual respect on this like i felt like both of us respected each other a ton both of us have gone through a lot of hard shit in life and we were like kind of there on like a day-to-day kind of basis. And I felt like from going to like a hundred. And I get why that's upsetting to you to realize that the person you thought had as much respect

for you as you for them is disappointing. That I totally understand. Makes a lot of sense. But that's not closure. You're upset for a valid reason, but you're upset because it's a new revelation about this person and what the relationship was. And now, as I've always said, when it comes to closure, you accepting that reality is where you're going to find that closure. And that should help you move on because you realize it's this person who you put on a pedestal. Part of the reason why you wanted to date her in the first place is because of this mutual respect. So what's the most reassuring thing that she could have said that would kind of make you feel more equipped to date in the future? What's something that she could have said that would have made you feel like, OK, I kind of understand what happened a little more. This like this makes me feel the least freaked out and terrified of dating. And people can change at

the flip of a hat and like vulnerability is a fucking nightmare in this scenario. Like like what is that thing that she like? What is that explanation that she could have provided? Yeah, I guess just being upfront and truthful. I think she hid a lot of her emotions in a lot of ways. Like you were supposed to meet again for that coffee date that she canceled last minute. Like that was a chance for us to kind of check in where we both were. Was it the exclusive part that kind of made her realize like she was leading me on or was it more for her? I just feel like there's like unanswered as to like what made that decision. What is what's the best answer to that question?

Like what's the best thing that she could kind of say is like an explanation for what happened? And best could be I'm a huge fucking asshole and like I'm a nightmare and there are all these warning signs and you missed them. And that or best is, I'm sorry, I was really fucking overwhelmed. I felt like I was Adam Sandler in Uncut Gems where I just knew there were all of these things racking up that I could never fulfill. And I got more and more stressed. And I was constantly trying to put out all these fires. And in the process, they were all just getting bigger.

And I really fucked up. And you were a casualty of that. And I'm sorry. Like, what what would be the best thing for you to hear? Yeah, I guess the overwhelmed part, honestly, like it was too much for her. And, and kind of like, just, I knew I couldn't kind of do this right now. And that would have been totally okay for me to hear that genuinely, if this was too much for her. I'd rather hear that than someone like pull away. What if instead of thinking of

that as like a possibility, like what if you just decided that's what happened? Like you said, I'm just going to decide straight up definitively without her confirming this, like she was overwhelmed and she fucked up and I was a casualty and she feels bad. Yeah. I mean, I just like wanted to tell her on my end too, how much that she meant to me, not that she would have, I don't know if she would have cared, but like she, you know, I did tell my parents, like that was a huge huge a really big thing for me and i did get over trauma in a really specific way with her um and those are two really like she created a safe space for me like there were lots of things that she meant and i really hoped to really let her know why does she need to know that why can't you just tell yourself that? I think you are holding out hope that her mind will change and that if she knows that,

she will be less reluctant to let it go because she will know how special she is to you. I think you just have to be grateful that you had a chance to meet this person and despite it not ending the way you wanted it to, and her showing some signs of a behavior that quite honestly you don't want or deserve in a long-term relationship, she was a meaningful person because she helped you through some of these situations that you were able to process. And maybe that's just the role she plays in your life. It doesn't make it any less meaningful. You know, you told your parents, great. And the focus here is that you cross paths with a person who created a safe space for you to open up about some past trauma and you were able to get it out. And that's the important thing here. And she was a vehicle to allow you to do that.

She's not your person. So it doesn't really make much of a difference whether you broke up today or three months from now, quite honestly. If you were going to break up, it's always better to do it sooner. And you're just a little bit disappointed in how she handled it. And that's also okay. But I think you're just holding on stubbornly to some hope. And because you're afraid that if it doesn't work out, it's like you don't need to have exclusively positive memories to be grateful that you ran into someone and have them be a part of your life. I know that can be complicated to be grateful of an experience that includes some pain. I know that's a challenge, but it's possible.

And it gets easier over time. As time passes, you'll get over her, but you'll still be thankful you met her because of what she was able to get out of you during that relationship. I guess that like that thankfulness for her is like why I wanted it to end on such a positive note. Like I really just hope it was, like I really wanted it to end positively. I think that's a temporary feeling. Yeah. just like a little older and experienced stuff like this. And by this, I mean, just mean breakups where you're kind of grappling with like two different,

like opposing thoughts that the frustration and anger and pain that you're feeling, that'll pass. You'll get over that. The gratitude will stick around and it will be easier for you to be grateful for her as time goes on. And just trust me on this, is that you do not need her to break up with you in the best possible way, whatever way that you deem is the best possible way for you to be able to

be grateful that you met her in the future. You just might have to be a little patient. And in the meantime, you're just going to have to try to accept that she's not the person, she's not entirely the person you hoped and thought she was. Doesn't make her all evil or anything like that. It just means it just ran its course. And as you move on, as you heal, as you just kind of get over it, as your ego shuts the fuck up and just lets it go, it'll be easier for you to appreciate the positive things she brought to your life. You don't need all the answers right now. You know what I'm saying? You're not going to feel

over it today. You're just going to have to have every day just get a little better and then challenge yourself when you have these thoughts of going back and the playing the what if game, challenge yourself to not let yourself go down that path of playing that kind of what if game with yourself and just accept that like it's over. I'm sad. Acknowledge the sadness, acknowledge the disappointment. You'll get through it and it'll be fine. It'll mean what it's supposed to mean and as time goes on the things that you give a shit about are the things that you should care about and if you don't care about it in the future it just means it wasn't as meaningful to you in the long run

as you thought it might be and that's okay and also from experience i have dated some queer women queer non-binary people who are like and also to be fair, some men, but like especially kind of as you were saying, this is your first queer experience. Like I have dated some queer people who have been spectacular at like talking through trauma and making me feel seen and heard. And like I truly believe there is more where that came from. And it's like so special and beautiful that this person kind of proved that it's a thing, but it's been a thing. It always will be a thing. And you'll find another thing that is like better in ways that this just like fell short.

Thanks for saying that. I appreciate that. That's amazing. Women are also just generally better listeners. So the fact that you, you know, it's your first woman and you felt like you've never been heard and seen emotionally, maybe just because you may just date another woman you know and then you might just be like oh yeah it's not a her thing it's just like there's way better listeners you know could be that too yeah i mean it was beyond just the listening it was like the whole picture the whole package or just generally more empathetic i mean not all no there's a lot of very empathetic, emotionally in touch men, but generally speaking, I think women are far better at creating a safe and welcoming environment and a non-judgmental environment and allow you to really pour your heart out. I think generally speaking, women are more naturally gifted at that than men. And to hear that she played this role,

I wouldn't be surprised if you continue to go out and date women that you might find a pattern of, yeah, I feel when it comes to my emotional needs early on, it's much easier for me to connect with women than for men because unless you get lucky, you gotta kind of pull it out of the guys a little bit thank you so much for calling i really do like it resonates for me when i was in the dating trenches all my friends who are actively in the trenches like a million different scenarios each one ending for a different kind of shitty reason a different lesson and like

the fact that you were in there i think is so going to resonate with other people. And I just, I feel like you're moving through it all. And it's going to, it's going to work out eventually, which is like not always reassuring, but like I do believe that fully. So you're hanging in there. That's the best you could be doing is hanging in there. And that's exactly what you're doing. Yeah, I hope this resonates with like all LA daters

on Hinge and, you know, offline too. Like it just, it's rough out there. So hopefully, um, just resonates with people. Absolutely. All right.

Well, thank you for calling. Appreciate the update. Thank you so much. All right. You take care. You too. All right.

Bye-bye. Thanks for listening guys. Don't forget another exciting episode of ask nick is on tuesday next week not monday uh freestyle with james kennedy and his wonderful girlfriend ally and then going deeper on thursday enjoy your memorial day weekend we will see you back on Tuesday.