The Viall Files - E6 Rachel Lindsay

Episode Date: February 6, 2019

In this very special episode, I'm joined by my "ex" Rachel Lindsay to talk all about clapping back on social media. We debate if she knew I was going to pick Vanessa, whether or not Elyse made the right move on the latest episode of The Bachelor, and we dish out some more great advice to listeners.What can I say? We have great chemistry. Listen to hear more and subscribe so you can stay up to date!Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

You're crazy. Hey guys, Instagram ad, coming at you. Hey guys. Coming at you hot. I'm very excited about today's episode. I don't know why I'm holding that. I'm very excited about today's episode. I have my ex-girlfriend, Rachel, here. Also, but I say that jokingly, Rachel and I have talked about that and I just want to get right into that. It's funny because, you know,

Rachel obviously was on my season, became the bachelorette, and that's not why she's here. But people like, like in Bachelor Nation, people like to think of us as exes and things like that. And we have discussed like the people I've had relationships with on Bachelor Nation. Vanessa is the only one I've considered an ex in terms of I have a relationship with. And it's always this kind of funny in terms of like, oh, like, you know, we had an intense experience together and get to know each other. But like, I don't, it's like, oh, well, those are all your exes from your season. I'm like, I barely know her name. Like, I don't, I've had two

conversations with her. I don't, I was like, I have no idea how they are in a relationship. So, did you feel that way? I feel like you, 100%, because I don't think it counts until you're just with one person. Right? Like, when you're sharing

with multiple women or men in my situation, it doesn't count. Right? Like, I always hated when they were like, your boyfriend's out

on another date. I'm like, he's not my man yet because if he was my man, I wouldn't be sharing him with these other women. How's it feel? You're a girl. Yeah. I was like, your boyfriend's out on another date. I'm like, he's not my man yet because if he was my man, I wouldn't be sharing him with these other women. How's it feel? You're a girl. Yeah.

I was like, is Andy the bachelorette? Is that who we're dating here? I was there for like, yeah, two days. I'm like, oh, well, she's at another date. I mean, maybe Jen from Paradise. I got to know her like outside of the show. We didn't date outside of the show, but we had real conversations. And I guess Caitlin before, but like the women from my season other than vanessa like i didn't have

real moments with you know i mean i certainly had real moments with with raven and rachel in the confines of like that crazy staged atmosphere yeah but like it wasn't like some real relationships come from like you know what's your favorite color? If you buy into it though, doesn't it feel like a polygamist experience? No, I can't explain it enough. It does not feel like polygamy. It really doesn't. Although my favorite, and we're not jumping into the episode quite yet, but my favorite line of the episode is when Colton's like,

you know, he does the, doing the blog stuff, the vlogging in the morning of each episode. And Colton's like, well, you know, had my one-on-one date with so-and-so,

broke up with the Lees. And he just says it so like, like this is just another day. And it was, but that's the show. It's hysterical. I hate the vlogging. Just a side note.

I despise it. Maybe it is the person who's vlogging and is just not doing a good job at it. It's awful. It's awful. It's the show trying to stay current. It's not Colton's idea. But it doesn't come

across as vlogging to me. Let's not get into the episode quite yet. No, but back to what you guys were talking about. If you buy into the experience that you're dating multiple people at once. If the girls are buying into like oh my god, Nick's my boyfriend and you're stealing Nick from me, then it's a polygamist experience. That's what it is.

Sure. But like, listen, the producers, the producers, like the producers are, you know, like are trying to create this tension. And so they'll ask questions like, hey, your boyfriend or your girlfriend's on another date because, you know, it kind of will fuck with you. But like most people in that in that environment when even though they get sucked in they're still like they're not like oblivious to reality you know they're like okay fine yes like i i feeling some people do get

sucked in some people sure i would say more than half it's probably half but i also would argue that half of the the half that do get sucked in are sometimes they're doing it because they think they have to or they should. They're trying to make the experience their own. And I would argue that the people who develop legitimate connections with the lead are usually the people who stay the most sane, at least early on. I will 100% agree with that. That actually makes me think of something because as I'm watching Colton's season,

and I guess I look at it this way. You guys and maybe you can back me up on this. When you say you guys, are you referring to men? Men. Men are painfully obvious as to who you like from the beginning. And I don't mean like who you have the strongest

connections with. I mean like we always knew who you were going to pick. I remember this. I remember we, we knew it. And I would tell producers, I would say, I don't even know why I'm here because we know what he's going to do. I'd say it all the time. And so I, I have, as I'm watching Colton season, I feel like, you know, who the girl that he's going to, Cassie, I don't know. I mean, I don't, I have, it's the first time in a while I don't know spoilers. So I am spoiler free. I assume Cassie from the way I'm watching it. Cassie, even the other girls are starting to say it.

I also love how we're, I don't want to look, but I'll finish this thought about bachelor. Sam likes to stay on track. Why are you blaming me? You're the one grasping. I don't want to disappoint Sam. She's like, we're going to have a structure to the show. We're going to stay on it.

But like, I love how when they went camping, like definitely the difference between having the virgin bachelor and Nick, the sexual bachelor who's had sex before. Oh yeah,

you were that guy. And like Colton. Was that real or is Nick naming himself the sexual bachelor? No, he was kind of the promiscuous new bachelor.

Yeah, I was like, because people knew I had sex with Annie and Caitlin, therefore it was of the promiscuous bachelor. Yeah, I was like, because people knew I had sex with Annie and Kate and therefore it was like and then they brought in Liz. He's like, hey, did you fuck her at a wedding? I'm like, uh, I guess. I was like, this is my kind of guy. I don't know. I thought she was pretty good looking,

you know? And so it's funny because like as the sexual bachelor, Colton's camping and they just end of the date nothing if that were my season they'd been like the producers have been like so uh well good night ladies um just a heads up nick's literally 12 feet away so i don't know if you if you want to i mean i wouldn't i wouldn't recommend it but like it's there and it's no it's like right there there's like a light on maybe. No, it's, like, right there. There's, like, a light on.

Maybe just, you know. And then, like, Cassie, like, they go to bed together. And then, like, no one's saying shit. Like, no one cares. And it's just like, oh, well, he's a virgin. So, like, if that were me, it would have been like, he did it again? Yeah, oh, it would have been a whole thing. He fucked another girl before the Vanishing Suite? Like, oh.

Which is why I think colton's the bachelor because it's that new narrative that we can all talk about that you've never been able to talk about before and you'll never be able to talk about it again i mean like there's they're not going to have another bachelor uh virgin but what i was going to say is back to the men always we know who they want to pick i feel like to what you were saying there are girls that i think know they're not going to be the one. So then they play into the narrative. They get sucked in because they're thinking of Paradise.

They're thinking of Bachelorette. Or they're thinking, I'm going to become a social media star. And I think you can point that out and see that because we know we're not going to be the ones that are picked. So this brings up a lot of things that I thought would be interesting to talk about. Also, I thought this episode brought up a lot of discussions about like, she said, she said,

or he's the whole like, who's telling the truth dynamic. I thought it'd be interesting conversation conversation to have with you being the lawyer. Okay. Obviously lying and telling the truth is a thing that as people we deal with in all relationships, not just dating. And then it kind of brings up, and as a lawyer, obviously, I mean, that's like, who's telling the truth? And you've got to prove it in a court of law. So I thought maybe that'd just be an interesting conversation

to talk about lying and how you're good at it. I'm curious what I... How I'm good at it. No, Freudian slip. She's a liar. No, I know Rachel to be a very honest and forthright person it's my detriment at times

I'm not a liar because I probably offended you with something I've said I do that all the time if I wanted to lie I would not have said that because clearly you're upset with me right now it just doesn't add up so yeah I wanted Rachel on set with me right now. Like, it just doesn't add up. So, yeah, I mean, I wanted Rachel on.

Again, obviously, you know, Bachelor Nation loves her, and I think it's an interesting dynamic having her and I having conversations. But as I had with previous episodes, you are a very successful career person, a woman who's done a lot of interesting things. Um, you are a lawyer. You also are on ESPN, which is cool. And I, I always respect Rachel because throughout the season, I did have some private time with Rachel and asked her questions like, what do you want to do? And she told me her dream to, was to be an ESPN and now she's doing it. I think it's very cool when people set goals and meet those goals. But back to lying and how you've dealt with it,

is that something that was innately you were good at picking out? Have you gotten better at picking on people's bullshit as a result of you being a lawyer? I am like, what do you say? You can't bullshit a bullshitter. Not that I am, but I just feel like— She likes to say that I I always have say that I was really good at reading people on the show like I feel like that really helped me like sift through bullshit and be like no no no no you're not for me even all the way down to the very end because of what I do for a career I'm used to interviewing taking

depositions being in court trial whatever where I have to interview career. I'm used to interviewing, taking depositions, being in court, trial, whatever, where I have to interview witnesses and I have to sift through the lies and what's the truth. So yeah, I mean like you have to have that to be the lead. What's your best way of, how do you handle feeling like you're being lied to? And how do you approach that both in your personal life and in your professional life? Well, I don't think it's a secret. I'm quite confrontational. You don't say.

Yeah. So the way I approach it is straight on. If I feel like you're lying to me, unless I'm trying to maybe catch you in more of a lie, like maybe if I'm thinking of it from a manipulative way and that I go around about way. But for the most part, if you're lying, I'm going to call you out on it right then and there. Tell you I know you're lying. Like on social media? Because I'm curious.

I wanted to ask you about clapping back. I've calmed down. You have. I mean, I guess. But you're – the interesting – I'm curious about clapping back. It happens a lot. It's something you see a lot out there. And when you see people clap back, a lot of people are like, oh, clap back, queen.

Clap back, queen. I would contest. And the thing about the internet, though, is it can really mess with your perspective. I would argue that, in general, when it comes to the internet, in almost 100% of the times, the best appropriate response to the internet is no response whoa nick nick nick nick i have to call you out hold on you just clapped back at raven well i didn't clap back i responded yeah you didn't clap he didn't clap back you respond okay but if you're saying the best response is no i would argue that late raven clapped back at

me i mean you can finish your line of thought but you just did this so but I didn't think it was clapping back I I again like when someone calls you out on the internet on the internet and someone says something or tweets something at you and you respond defending yourself even if it's right I find that the it's like it usually don't get the response that you want. It was funny. It seemed like you were writing back, like you were writing like the manager of a business. He was trying to be careful.

I was. Yeah, he was very careful. You're right. I'm careful with your words. Even to that point, like, I don't know, like,

well, actually like Raven did reach out. We had a nice conversation, but like, I would argue that, and that's, that was an interesting point. Like Raven, and I asked We had a nice conversation, but like I would argue that, and that's, that was an interesting point. Like Raven,

then I asked Rachel's opinion about it, but for those of you who don't know, I'm thinking of the second episode, I made a comment. It's funny that you said it. I, and I was answering questions about the bachelor. And I said,

I just said a passing comment. I think Raven and Rachel had a gut feeling that I was probably going to pick Vanessa. 100%. I was listening to- Hold on, one second, one second, one second. I'm sorry. And let me just finish this up. And then ask what you had to go on.

And all I said was, and then I backed that point up by saying, and Raven even tried to convince me not to pick Vanessa. That's all I said. Like I didn't put any context around it. And then I posted it as a preview for the podcast. Now Raven hears that, sees that and writes this whole, like, I said this and like kind of clap back about, you know, that comment. And she goes, well, I never said that. I did say that. Uh, I didn't think you and Vanessa would last six months. I'm reading and thinking, wait a second, time out. Even if that was all you said, you're, you're,

we're in this environment of like, it's down to three. We're lying in a, we're having a private time. And you're telling me one of the other women that you think I might pick, or I could pick that won't last the guy who's like, is it, will Nick ever find love fourth times a charm? And I'm really emphasizing that. The guy who's like, is it, will Nick ever find love? Fourth time's a charm. And I'm really emphasizing that. And it's just like, we try to help you. Fine. And, and again, so even if that was all Raven said, that would be, I would be right. But here's the thing, Raven writes back and I, it's like, now we're, we're talking about it. She comes back and I'm

just like, and I wrote her like, I don't feel like, I don't appreciate like you suggesting that I'm lying. I know I'm not lying. It was just like the thing about that situation where like what I liked about Raven is that she was always like similar to you. Like I really respected Raven's point of view. Raven from when I got to know Raven as someone who was very aware and she was very insightful. And she, when Raven was, I remember it vividly talking about lying is because when Raven was describing why she didn't think we'd last, I was ghost white. Because I was thinking like, here's like, I was like, I'm not sleeping with Rachel and

Raven. Like, I want this to try. I want to make this work. I wanted this relationship where I'm just going to have this. I'm only going to do this. And Raven's just like, yeah, I don't know if that's the move, buddy. You know, like, and it didn't come across as like Raven talking shit. It was more like a very pragmatic, like, this is what I think.

And this is why, which I really appreciate because when I say something strong yeah I'm I can back it up with like points and Raven was doing that I was just like fuck is she telling the truth or is she like considering the story but so like this all can't but my point is like now I'm sitting here telling the story Raven claps back on the internet and all she's just worried about is like her me implying that she was talking shit about vanessa and i never tell the story of raven doesn't write me and like raven's great but like i think so i've talked to raven since this since this happened and raven was more from you used a sound clip that made her feel like a certain way or it a certain way, whether it's truth, truth or a lie. Right.

We, we all, we all know about which, which her response, which her response made it seem like, yeah, there's truth into it. The way she responded,

whatever, whatever she said. So yeah, she was more annoyed that you used that. And then that's why she felt the need to respond because people were in her DMS or writing her saying, this is what they said. I thought Rachel was the only one who hated Vanessa.

That's what people were saying to her, which I found was funny. And she was like, no, that's, you know, like. But that was part of the show. I mean, that's what I said. I know, but I think that's why she felt the need, which I don't think it was a clap back. I think she responded and then you responded. It was a bit of a clap back.

A clap back is like shade. A clap back is like- There was some shade in that message. Like, yeah, there wasn't- Oh, because certainly that's how some of the people who read it, it was like, you go girl, like, you know, you tell them what's up.

A clap back is funny. It's shady. It cuts. Like she was just trying to defend herself. And then you responded back. And what did I say? Have Raven come on the show. Oh, I invited her on.

Raven has agreed to come on after she hears this podcast. I hope she still wants to come on. But like, yeah, that's a thing too. It's just, but like, you know, also defending like, did Raven want, like, know I was going to pick? I don't know. Well, she was on the Morning Toast. Sorry, I listen to all the Bachelor podcasts. I love the Morning Toast.

But she said that you let her on. Not let her on, but that you gave her validation off camera and that you even talked about a ring. So she did actually,, um, in contrast to Rachel, she did think she was going to get picked. I guess that's what she said. She told me she never thought she was going to get picked. Oh, oh shit. Well, I do know that podcast. They are not fans of me. What was it? Was she nice to me on that podcast? Um, no, I think she said she didn't think you were attractive until everyone

else acted like you were attractive I don't know that's just she thought you we all thought you were attractive I'm not okay let me just let me just put keep it there and she does I mean I'm just gonna keep it real we all thought you were attractive a lot of people thought you looked better in person um and taller which is which is which I'm fine I, when you take that compliment any day, like I'd rather look better in person than on TV. Like, I don't want you to be shocked and horrified if you see me in person and, and, and you, and, and you do. So that's, I don't, I don't know about that part. And no, we really did think that you were going to pick Vanessa, but it's's you get sucked in right number one question I get not even kidding is did you really like Nick people really people really I it used to be about Corrine and now as I move on and

I've done even like away from my season they want to know if if I liked you I well I guess maybe you got it on the season I get it I, I do get that all the time. And I always think it's weird. It's like, you think I'm that good of an actress? I'm like, when I was on the show, yes, I like Nick. I'm not going to have this huge revelation. I'm not going to go back and say, oh, now that I stepped into the real world. No, I never really liked him.

And I did when I was on the show. I appreciate that. I feel like a lot of people don't do that. I feel like, I mean, I don't know what, like if Raven felt that too or whatever, because I always was, I always got frustrated when I hear some other batch of people talk. Because it's interesting, Andy and Caitlin, perfect, like whether it's been a private conversation

or a public interview, I have always said the exact same thing. In that environment, I absolutely dug them. I felt feelings of love. It broke my heart when they broke up with me. It sucked. I am glad they ended up making the decision that they did. It worked out the way it should.

But in that moment, I fucking dug them. And my ego would prefer me to be like, no, I mean, it was like a TV show. And when Caitlin's mocking me with Sean in her interviews, I'd be like, yeah, I didn't really like him. And I'm just like, nah, I mean, it was like a TV show. And like when, like when Caitlin's mocking me with Sean and her interviews be like, yeah, I didn't really like, oh, but I'm just like, no, I loved you. So like, fuck it. You know, like I've never backed down and other bachelor people, it seems like they will say that it's just like, yeah, I didn't really like them. And it's just like, well, because it's like their ego. I don't know. Because I think about when you, the moment that you step back into the real world and get your phone and you turn on TV and you're on the internet, you start to realize, Hey, maybe like it wasn't as what I thought it was,

but when you were in the moment, that is how you felt. And so like, I, I've never said in an interview, like, Oh, I really didn't like them that much. It's like, no, in the moment. Yes, you did. It was, it really is real. And you really do. I tell people, it's like, there's one guy or girl there. You're the girls on the show or the guys are your only friends, your producers or your parents. Like that is your world that is created. And when you have a connection with someone, however small or big it may be, it is real in that moment. Yeah. Is there a male female element to this about wanting to save face when you leave? Like you said earlier, you're a very direct person.

You're confrontational. And that's awesome. But also for those of us who aren't as confrontational and really want people to like us, I would say in general, and this is always a generalization, confrontational tends to be easier for men. Confrontational? Yes, it does. No, I will agree. Generally speaking, I'm not confrontational because it sort of shakes Yes, it does. Right? I'm not, this is. No, I will agree. Right. Generally speaking, right? I'm not confrontational because it sort of shakes me a little bit.

Right? So when you get off the show. I should teach a class. You should teach a class for sure. Yes, I will take it. I'm first to sign up. But when you get off the show and you see that like all these people don't like you maybe, right? And then the first response is to backpedal.

Did you see that maybe the females are doing a better job of standing up for themselves or the men are, or is this just person to person? Here's what I have noticed. Tell me. In the show. And I actually, funny, I said this to Raven in the fantasy suite.

I said, I was just like, here, I'll tell you what's going to happen. I was like, you know, I was like trying to just talk a year off because I was like, I don't want to, like we can't hook up. So I was like, what do you want was like trying to just talk her ear off. Cause I was like, I don't want to, like, we can't hook up. Like, so I was, what do you want to know? I'll tell you everything. And so I was just like, listen, other than my top four, every other girl's already talking shit about me.

You know, like every season I've been told me about this, you know, even Ben, you know, like it's almost, it's the earlier you go home, you get in this group text and everyone's, oh, he sucked. I group text and everyone's, oh, he sucked. I didn't like him anyways, blah, blah, blah. People are going to hate it. Every bachelor that's ever happened, it happens. I have, having been on The Bachelorette twice and getting in the same group text,

the conversation's very different. I mean, some guys are just like, yeah, I don't know. I don't think she really liked me and we didn't really connect. But there's very, there's almost no shit talking about the female leads. They talked about me me okay what how'd you hear about that because brian would tell me brian wasn't in the group chat but like they whoever he was close to and i honestly don't even remember who told him they would talk about me like oh yeah brian was in on this brian wasn't

in the chat but like somebody would say something to him. Like they were kind of like, you don't want to be in it because they're talking bad about Rachel. That's disappointing. Yeah. I mean. Okay. So they both do it. I sent you home, so. They both do it.

Yeah. Listen, it's also like, it's how the show is structured, right? Like the, what is funny too is, I don't know how you felt about this. And it's interesting because it happened in this episode with Colton is as the Bachelor, the Bachelorette, you're put on this pedestal and you're, even though you try to have a level head and you're blessed and grateful to be the lead, you're like the bachelor and you're the bachelorette. And you are like, it's, everyone's here to meet me. And I'm already, it's already presumed that they are all want to fall in love with me, whether they are acting or fake. And

God forbid, someone's like, I don't know, not them you're like really i'm but i'm but you're supposed to right and it's like a it's a you're more sensitive as the lead to like the only thing i don't want i want two things to happen like somebody get engaged and have no one break up with me before i break up with them right because there's this ego thing involved but it's a double standard because everyone who gets sent home like is butthurt about the fact that like they like especially if you go home early like this person likes 12 other people more than me and 12 other people fuck them they're not that great like i didn't yeah you know like i i didn't have the no one came to me and said and i don't even know if they did on your season no one came to me and was like this person don't even know if they did on your season. No one came to me and was like, this person isn't really here for you.

I never got that. Oh, no. I never got that. And I think that if they had. Oh, someone talking shit about someone else? Yeah. I mean, they talk shit about each other, but nobody was like, they're not really here for you. And I probably would have been like, well, tell them to go home.

I mean, I told somebody, get the fuck out. Go away. Go. I realize now that some of the women tried to warn me about vanessa but they never said her name this is what i'll you you would ask questions like but i was going on in the house and i'd be like oh i don't let i don't want to talk about them you know like i was probably drinking i was like i don't want to talk about them let's talk about us rachel and i would have great conversations and i always have conversations with her early

because she's like, I'm going to go drink. She was like, Rachel, Corinne wasn't the only one sleeping on my season. Every rose ceremony I slept. That's why I thought it was so funny that they used that narrative for Corinne. I was like, I remember one ceremony. I really dug Rachel.

We had some great conversations. I'm like, all right, we'll go to sleep. I'm not, I haven't interrupted anybody. I'm not, I've already talked to Nick. We had a great time. I'm going gonna go crawl in the bed somebody come get me when the rose ceremony starts there was the one time that i had to pull you out of a bathroom that's yeah untold stories yeah i yeah nick was there was a producer like hey rachel's crying in the bathroom could you go could you go like help her out more when i it was it was like you see it

happen to people on the show and then it happened to me i had been drinking i was so upset that day and i'll tell you why i don't even know if you know all this this is in wisconsin wasn't it i have never told this story so this is this is real yes it was in wisconsin we had that horrible date that smelled like poop the entire time that was not not my idea. It was. And so we had seen Nick. I had already been saying Nick was going to pick Vanessa. Okay. And then we saw you and Vanessa have like a secret moment. Yeah.

I mean, in fairness to Vanessa, the producers were like, hey, go find Nick and whatever. So we had a secret moment. But we all saw it. So it was like, I remember thinking like, why am I here? I tried to quit three times, like when I got really upset. And I was like i remember thinking like why am i here i tried to quit three times like when i got really upset and i was like it's so obvious what he wants and so and so i was like why are we even here so then we all drank it was super cold and then like they kept talking to me and i was like i don't want to talk about it we all know what nick is gonna do and they kept

talking to me and i was just like i can't't take this anymore. And I was crying and I was like, I don't even know why I'm here. What am I doing here? You know, like it. And then they were like, oh, okay. A producer is going to come talk to you. And I go, you can come in and the door opens and it's Nick. And I was like, no. And I'm like sobbing to Nick. And I was just like, I don't, I can't do this. I don't want to be here. It was awful. It was the most embarrassing moment. You felt like you knew that early on? Because I can't say that early on that I absolutely knew.

Can I just, this is something else I've never told before. So, you know I'm super close with Astrid. And I just want to say that I use the term bitch loosely. I'm going to preface that before I say it. This is nothing personal to anybody. I'm getting term bitch loosely. I'm going to preface that before I say it. This is nothing personal to anybody. I'm getting anxiety right now. And I go, I shared a room with Vanessa. And so she's getting her one-on-one date.

And I remember Ashton and I are in the room and she has her book that she's going to take and show you, her speech pathology book. Is that what she is? Whatever it was, working with the students. I don't know what she is. And she's working with the students and she had pictures and all this stuff like this arts and craft book and asher and i are sitting there and we started flipping through it and i go this

bitch is gonna win that was the second week and i was was like, let's just go. I was like, let's go get a drink. And we just like went downstairs. Yes, we all, you were very obvious with it. I think it's just a man thing, you know? I mean, like when I watch it back, it was, to me, it was obvious that Ben was going to pick Lauren.

I will say it's interesting because for all the like, you know, I had been on it four times. When they asked me to be The Bachelor, I was truly sick to my stomach moments after them asking me for a lot of reasons. Like, you know, it's just like, oh, you know, like I was like, oh, why don't we quit while I was ahead? I was like, Paradise was going great. And I was just like, I just wanted it to work. You know, I wanted to actually meet someone.

And you get nervous. Like, hey, we're going to pick 25 people we think maybe you'll like. But we're going to also, like, want to have a great TV show. So, like, you know, and the pressure of getting engaged. And so I really wanted it to work. So I was just dead set on, you know, I want this to work. And I had dinner with Ben and Lauren prior to that. And Lauren, you know, she was just like leaning in. She's like, listen, you're gonna like, hopefully you figure out who

you like early on. And if you do protect that relationship. And she was basically in the nicest possible way of saying, do not fuck anyone else. If you know, you're gonna like, just protect that person and i really took that to heart being like i hope i figure out who i like because i want to like the whole goal was i i you know it's funny i i still have neck problems to this day since the morning we woke up in the fantasy suite um not because of anything that but like i was stressed out as fuck of just like, and I slept on it weird. And I was so stressed.

I had a lot of like going through the season, like, like I had to lead people on. I try to be very careful with how I led people on in the sense of, especially you and Raven, even more particular Raven, because like every week is that much more serious compounding. Like,

you know, like the Raven, like the talking about the rings. I absolutely, the night serious compounding like, you know, like the Raven, like the talking about the rings. I absolutely the night before just being like, you know, what ring would you want? And that was absolutely a disingenuous question because I was worried that Raven. But also in my mind, my hope was, I mean, I won't get into it, but there are things that happen in the fantasy with Raven. I was like, she definitely knows what where I'm going here because otherwise she wouldn't be saying this you know she's like we did know and so my point is it's like I was really stressed about not leading leading her on or leading you guys on but you know you have to right I never felt like you led me on I like knew

we had a connection I knew we were really cool but I never felt like you led me on. I like knew we had a connection. I knew we were really cool, but I never felt like you led me on. Like matter of fact, when the rose ceremony that I got sent home, I remember I was doing my final, before you sent me home, I was doing my final interview and they were like, okay, you know, like go get ready for the rose ceremony. And I hugged the sound and the camera person and I go, it's been real fun. This is it for me tonight. I that I mean it's still a shock when you get sent home but I remember I was like it's not me I had a note I gave it to Raven I knew it I knew but it was more like my hope was like that I didn't know like how you women stood at the time of the perspective but if I was leading any of you on, my hope would be

that after you guys got sent home, it was, okay, that sucks. But deep down, I kind of knew, right. In a sense of like, because I, again, with Andy and Caitlin, there were specific things that happened and that were said that made it harder for me to get over it. It was like, well, what the fuck, you know, like how, how could you, and again, like I have been the lead. So have you, like, there's a lot of shit producers get blamed for. And sometimes I've been plenty mad at producers and they certainly produce, but also like when I was like, Hey, just so you guys know, we got to figure something out because I'm not having sex with all these women. So just so you know, and there was no pushback. There wasn't like, well,

we prefer you to have sex with all of them. None of that. There's no, there's no like that. The level of manipulation does not go that far. It just doesn't. Right. And so I was never forced to do anything. So I was, I tried to do what I had to do later on because once, and I try, you really do is even though like looking back, I probably knew you were right. But like, I had a real connection with you. I had a real connection with you. I had a real connection with Raven. I really liked a lot of things about you guys. And there's a lot of attributes that both of you had.

I've been like, I really, really would like this in my relationship. You know? When I walked away, I think I was, I was shocked. Actually, I take that back. I do remember like, I mean, it is really like your world comes crashing down when you get sent home. It truly is. Whether you're expecting it, hugging people because you know it's happening. But then when it happens, it is devastating.

There's no other way to describe it. And so I remember thinking, I at least thought I was going to be second. That's what I think what I was shocked about. I was like, I at least thought I was going to be second. But you're the best you're what I was what I was shocked. I was like, I thought I was going to be second. But no, no, no. But that I'm just saying, like, that's like your mindset. But in your defense, I never felt like you let it we never had a ring conversation. We never talked about the future, like what we would do outside of the show. We just had a good we just had a good time. Well, maybe, yeah, maybe we would have if I hadn't passed out. I didn't go to sleep i passed out well can i ask you a question i give great massages that's good for everyone to know i

think can i ask you about like you you brought it up the winning element of it like i always feel like the men are there to win and the women are there to find love oh i think that's an unfair statement well that's why i said i think that i think that when men get sent home, I do think it is a pride thing. I think that. More so than the women. With the women, I think their feelings are hurt more. I think with men. You don't think it's pride?

I think, no. For me, it wasn't pride. I'm not talking about necessarily you or Raven. The women that I talked to that were sent home. Like, I don't think. I think their feelings were hurt more. And when I think of the men that were sent home on my season, it was not all of them. No, this is a generalization.

But I do think it was a pride thing. Like, oh, I'm better looking this person. It was like a competition more. Like I wanted to win the prize at the end. I feel like that's, well well I don't know if the women objectify the bachelor maybe as much as maybe the men do I don't know but like we don't it's it's I think competitive people I would contend that the competitive people in the environment it's competitive and I've said this before, specifically with Andy,

because with Caitlin it was different. I had been in that role before. I literally came for Caitlin. With Andy, I was like, I'm going to do this thing, and oh shit, I like her. And I had conversations with myself every day of, I know I like her.

I absolutely know I like her. But how much of what I'm feeling has to do with this competitive element? And I honestly didn't know the answer. Because you just don't, like, of what I'm feeling has to do with this competitive element. And I honestly didn't know the answer because you just don't like, I know I'm competitive. I know I really like her. I don't, I don't know. And so you just kind of go with it. So it was hard for me to tell the difference because I just knew I was competitive. It's a little different. I mean, I didn't, I knew Josh was a real threat. I mean, I wasn't that naive. I knew Sean was a real threat,

but I also knew that I was, there was a real connection. So I just didn't know. I think, and because I, and I'm really not just saying this because I just knew you were going to pick Vanessa. I didn't have the competition element. It was more like we get along well, I'm going to get in there. I'm going to do me. I'm going to do my thing. And you know, if he likes me, he likes me. If otherwise my, my intuition was right. So I didn't really struggle with that. Um, when I talked to Brian, he was like very much the way you described how you came in for Caitlin. He was like, I'm here for you. I'm about you. I'm ignoring any outside noise. He was different. He, and even the way he handled me throughout the season, he was different. How quickly, I wasn't allowed to watch your season.

How quickly did you know you were going to pick Brian? This is, this is an interesting question. I really want to know your take. I knew after the second date, I don't know if this happened for you, but everybody who got a second date, it was extremely telling to me of who they were. Our first dates were amazing. But going into the second date, I knew I gave Dean, Peter,

and Brian a second date. I knew exactly who they were after those dates. That's almost insane. And so after, and I've said this before, I knew them so well after those. It was shocking to me.

Did you know me after our second date? I felt like we had a better— I was very nervous my first date with you. Like, extremely nervous. The second date, I was way more comfortable. But the second date, I was a little uncomfortable because that week, Vanessa told you that I was bullying her or whatever. Oh, I remember that.

And so I was like, gosh, I don't want to like, it's happened. It happened to me. And now I don't have, I'm going to have to come into this date and talk about it. And I could tell the producers, I don't want to talk. I was super annoyed. I was like, I don't want to talk about it. I didn't want to talk to you about it. I was like, I just want to have fun. I want to have a good time. And we really didn't like, I think we talked like two sentences and then we kept it moving. Oh, yeah. I mean, I. But you don't feel like after your second day, it's crazy how fast that world moves. I felt like the more time I got, I knew who people were.

Like, their true colors were totally coming out. Slightly different for me. Again, like, I think looking back, hindsight being 2020, I had real, real nerves about, is this going to work for me? Am I going to meet someone I connect with? Yeah. And when I met Vanessa, when she got a limo, I was drawn to her immediately, but I was like, I don't know. I don't know anything about her. I just, there's a, there's a natural chemistry there. And then on her first date, I mean, you go back, I like got emotional on our first date. And then there was a lot of relief at my part of thinking, okay, one date, but like, there's a, like, there's something there. And I probably got a little

tunnel vision. I don't know if other men, other men leads do that. I mean, again, I talked to Ben. Oh, y'all do. You talked to Ben. It was pretty much like the Lauren show the whole time. Yeah. Y'all do. Women don't do that. We don't, we don't go. And when I talked to other leads, we, I, I was immediately drawn to Brian. Like the whole night I was like, where's that dude who spoke Spanish to me? Tell him to come back.

Like I kept saying that, but I was open to meeting other people. I did not always think it was Brian. It wasn't until we had our second date that I was like, I know for sure. Were you at all worried since you had such a strong connection with him on the show that once the show dropped off,

that the connection wasn't going to be there? Or were you super sure of it after you got engaged? I was worried. And you tell me this too. The scariest moment is when they're like, season's wrapped and you're standing there with this stranger. I just like, no, 100%.

You're like, no, wait, come back. I remember because it was like Vanessa noticed it because I was like, It's scary. Holy shit.

You're like, it's happening. You have this, well, for you, you put this ring on this person's finger. You have this ring. They leave you alone.

You get to ride in the car together for the first time. So, what's your name? You go to your hotel. They close the door and you're just like, whoa so tell me about that and so I mean well we just started having sex well so post that no tell me about that no it was it was that was the scariest moment but then I remember how emotional Brian got like talking about like our future like that same day and And then when, once we were,

we were in this house and with the producers and then like, we just, we were playing music and we just had, we, we, he could rap the same songs and we just had like this vibe and we just, we just went into this natural rhythm of things. And I, and I kept telling him, my gosh, I felt it, but I knew I made the right decision. I knew like everything. I was no longer scared by the time we left Spain and we separated. I was like, this is legit. And same for you, Nick? Slightly different. And I was honest. I talked about fantasy suites with him. He asked me all these honest questions. He asked me who would he have trouble with watching the season back. I told him everything. And I got

emotional because I was like, I don't want you to leave me when you see certain things. And I think that honesty really helped us because when we left Spain, we had no, there were no questions. There were no issues. Yeah. I mean, I won't get into it. Mine was slightly different. I approached the, I tried to like, i was really proud i will say this i was and not that i should like receive a medal for not having sex with multiple women but i went in there thinking i want to like make this work with this person i'm going to do everything i can to protect this relationship um and it made like fantasy sweet week very challenging and very stressful because i just i didn't know where their heads were at or

what they want me like and and I approached it like hey we're engaged what do you want to know about me by the way this is what happened this is what didn't happen and by the way like congrats I didn't sleep with anyone else it didn't go over very well and then I would think I told too much about like the let's like I just like hey I want you to know like this is this is who i am like if we're engaged right i know we have a long way to go but here we go like i'm about to like tell you everything about me but can the person accept it i was i don't think it did not go any other man that i on my season would have been able to accept the things that i was saying other than brian yeah and i remember a producer told me that they were like brian's a different kind of guy and he was older.

That's awesome. So he could accept things that I was saying. And that does come with age, right? It made it easier for me. I will say that. But in your defense, I don't understand how anybody can go on the show and not accept,

you know that this person's dating other people. You know the possibilities. You know that they don't know what it's like to be the lead, but they know the struggle and the back and forth. And cause you have it, even if you're a contestant. So to hold you to a certain standard before I even knew I was going to put a ring on your finger to me is unfair. Was there ever a time where you clap back and you're like, you know, I could have done without that. I probably, maybe never, never, never. Cause I like, like every clap back I've had I've had, it became a thing.

They were calling me a clapback queen of Bachelor because I guess people hadn't done it before. What did you think of Bibiana clapping back at Peter? Did you see that? Yes, I did see that. Because here's the thing. I get tagged into anything with anybody for my season. You know how it goes.

It's like, ugh. It's like, I love Raven. No, I don't regret not picking her. Can we just let it go all I have to say is about that I mean well I love

I don't know Peter I don't know why Dean got involved well because I think Dean's been informed about some things and he's a little sensitive about like

things that have gone on like what why are you being so vague because it's not my business yeah but like I've been informed about things about that situation before. And I know.

And that. But here's the thing. What's going on? Oh, I believe her too. But what's to believe? Peter came over, spent a weekend with her. Probably hooked up because like he spent the whole weekend. And he left unceremoniously.

Like she's got a boyfriend now. What's the point? That's what I think was the biggest thing. Like what's the point of bringing it up? I don don't understand i like if my man would be upset if i was like why do you give a shit yeah like put like talking about something that happened before like if you have a man move on i'm not defending peter but it sounds like he did some sort of interview with some sort of like gossip magazine and they're like oh we saw you guys at a basketball game are you dating he was like we're Are you dating? He was like,

we're not dating. It doesn't sound like they were ever dating. What her thing was is that he downplayed their entire thing. He was like, oh, well, I met her

through some charity event and, you know, like I was like, hey, or something like that. Like, oh, I met her and that's not, that's not true. Like y'all go way back

more than that. And so I think that was like her thing. I don't like a guy versus girl conversation. I don't like that Dean got, nobody would say anything if Dean hadn't gotten involved

in all this. It's like, don't get involved. Well, so here's the question. Do you agree with that on both sides? Do you think if, when women are supporting

other women for the gossip we're all talking about, do you think that's fine? I don't think any, I don't think Bibiana should have said anything. No, I. That's what I'm saying.

It depends what was said. It was so trivial that it was like, why is anybody. She just got in a relationship. Why is anybody saying anything? Yeah, that's kind of my point. It's just like, is it really worth it? But you want me,

you wanted me to remember my point, the segue? Yes. Okay. I was saying how I thought it was unfair for you to be held to a certain standard when you know you're coming on a dating show. I didn't even watch the show, but I know that I'm competing with all these other women. So there's certain things that are going to happen, not going to happen, whatever. So when I'm watching Colton's season, I am frustrated by the girl, the one girl I liked, the redhead.

I was so upset that she decided to leave. I'm like, I was rooting for you. We were all rooting for you. Is that Tyra Banks making it up? Thank you. You gotta cry more. I actually really appreciate it. Like, here's why.

I don't understand. I don't, like. You could argue Elise, one of the more real moments of the franchise in recent history, for argument's sake, let's say that she removed herself from a situation that she didn't believe in. And we all talk about the playbook or why people are there. And just for argument's sake, if Raven, for example, thought I wasn't going to pick her and what if Raven didn't like me? What if she was like, I'm just not into this guy. You know, like I don't want to get engaged to him. Like I don't really like him or whatever. And yeah, she might think I might be picking Vanessa, but Raven and I had some real moments, moments right so wouldn't it be a pretty big risk for Raven to go all the way to the night before where I am even though I might have been full of

shit in that moment being like hey so like what kind of ring would you like and she just plays along at the risk of I'm proposing to her when she I'm saying I don't know what but let's say Raven didn't beef with this girl but release is like I just don't see it and she bowed out and Elise easily could have stuck around for I mean she might have been just don't see it and she bowed out and elise easily could have stuck around for i mean she might have been who knows i've taught four and she like so i'll talk about social media and all that and she bowed out i respect the move she didn't bow out though she bowed she that was what bothered me she didn't bow out and say you know what i like i like you she could have done the whole thing emotional but i it's not there. I hear these other women talking.

Give him a hug. Peace out. Move on away. She sat in that confessional, and she was like, I'm so stupid. I shouldn't have done this. I just made the biggest mistake. And then I thought, maybe this is all very telling as to who you are. You don't know what you want.

You literally go through this dramatic thing. You put on this fancy dress to say your goodbye. Like there was a rose ceremony happening. It was definitely over dramatic. And I was like,

okay, we're seeing the real Elise here. Okay, that's fair. And maybe think of the hot crazy matrix. I felt like she wanted him to be like, no, don't go

and like beg her to stay. That was her whole point. I could see her coming back. See, then that's, I don't like games like that. Well, but like if she's, if they're airing her being like, I could see her coming back. See, then that's, I don't like games like that. Well, but like if she's, if they're airing her being like I made a huge mistake, like she will

be certainly given the opportunity to come back, right? They're in Singapore or Thailand. She's not coming back. They have flown people back to Hong Kong before. I mean, I'm just saying. See, it felt very real life to me, didn't it? Like if someone said to you on a third date, Nick, I want to marry you.

That's a real life weird situation. And what she was saying was, I don't see myself being able to get married after three dates with you. Didn't it feel very real life? I don't think either of your arguments are mutually exclusive. I think she can be overly dramatic. Right. And at the same time, trying to be very real. Right. You didn't like her flip-flopping. Clearly, she be overly dramatic. Right. And at the same time, trying to be very real. You didn't like her flip-flopping.

Clearly, she's overly dramatic. I mean, because the fact that she's had one date with a dude in Bachelor World, like, chill out, Elise. But she was getting up. It's like, you've had a one-on-one. She was getting upset at seeing all the other girls, which is a natural reaction, right? Which that could be like, literally everyone has that thought. Yeah, you do. Everyone talks about it.

They're just showing that. But they don't storm out of the room and close the door. In a wedding dress. In a wedding dress. Now, it was a bad dress. I liked it. But it was a wedding dress.

It was very bright. She looked fire. But also like weird to be like, listen, before I break up with you, I am going to look awesome. We all say that though.

And the last thing you're going to think about after I say goodbye is, yeah, when you're making out with her, you'll be thinking of me. But when you run into her on the street, you look like shit. That's how it goes. But the flip-flop, I think, is what got me.

I was with her until, and then I was like, well, wait a minute. Which one is it, Elise? Like, who are you? Like, I didn't understand the whole thing at the end. It was almost like that interview should have been played before she walked into the room. You could be real and you can be dramatic and you can be really dramatic i mean she's probably you know she's probably all of the above because like she you're right she like level even if you had your freakouts why am i here in your moments of like i

have a connection with nick but my gut tells me he's gonna pick vanessa like you're like all right chill out like before he sends me i mean and I'm playing devil's advocate like with this scenario what if Raven didn't really like me and she's leading me on as the only person who really has the expectation of getting engaged but like at the same time we all agree to be a part of it to your point and it's like hey Elise like get to that second date and see if maybe there's and start really questioning whether you should be here. It was a little hot and heavy at first. It's like, it's episode, what, four or something? Four, five, we're halfway through.

There's a lot going on for like four episodes. Elise was like, you know what? I've seen rich, crazy Asians, or I've all, crazy rich Asians, whatever it's called. I always wanted to go to Singapore. I'm here now. Peace, deuces, I'm out. That was Elise. Yeah always wanted to go to Singapore. I'm here now. Peace. Peace. Deuces.

I'm out. That was Elise. Yeah, but they're in Asia. So chances are they're going to another cool Asian spot. No, she wanted to go to Singapore. That's how I felt. I was like, girl, you just wanted to go to Singapore. But I still think that in a world where, especially with them introducing Paradise

and the blow up of social media and the opportunities that come with and the play, like for all the right reasons and we're here to be famous bullshit that we all have to deal with. When I went on Andy season, Instagram existed. I would contend even Caitlin season, there wasn't a playbook. There was, it was like, we didn't know what could come of it. We were going to go on as national television and like all your friends from the, you know your small town but like oh my god you're gonna be it's gonna these are gonna blow up and you're like i don't think that's how it works here because like i'm just a reality like person there wasn't a play but you just didn't know and now people have a

misconstrued idea of this playbook people come like okay well i'm gonna have the social media do the instagram ads and yes we're very lucky to have an opportunity and paradise is a platform you can do. I mean, there were literally, I know this for a fact, because there were women on my season that if they got sent home like week two, 10 minutes later, they're texting producers. So paradise, you know, like there's, there's a real playbook. So it's like, it doesn't really matter if you went home. And so for Elise, you know what? She's a hairstyle, small business owner. I don't know. I mean, she could easily, she could have milked it.

Wow, someone has some. No, I'm just saying, that's how I define it. I don't know what her career is. Elise could have easily stuck around for longer. She wasn't going anywhere anytime soon. And she could have. She was my favorite. That's why I was so disappointed. She's't going anywhere anytime soon and she could have. She was my favorite. That's why I was so disappointed.

I still, she's one of my favorites because, you know, she's got a great voice. Voice is fire. I don't know. I don't remember all that.

I'm into it. But it's like, I don't say very many positive things when I've been recapping this season. I thought you were about to say, I don't say very many

positive things about people with red hair. No, no, no, no. Since I've been recapping this season and she was like the one positive thing that I've said and then I stopped. I just was like, I'm just going to with red hair. No, no, no, no. Since I've been recapping this season, and she was like the one positive thing that I said, and then I stopped. I just was like, I'm just going to hold it in.

So do you like this season? It's entertaining as fuck. This last episode. It's a shit show. This last episode was entertaining. I have not been entertained the other. This last episode was very, very good. It's hard for me to abide that Colton is going to like,

I mean, it just doesn't seem like he's really, I think he's sincere. It's just, I don't that Colton is going to like, I mean, it just doesn't seem like he's really, I think he's sincere. It's just, I don't, it's this whole like, I'm going to, I might marry someone. It's just, I don't, it's, there's just a lot of like. You don't think he's going to get married? Is that what you're saying? I have a hard time believing like, there's just a lot of, I mean, he would literally, he went on, he went on, there was a date on this episode with the virgin and the girl who has never been kissed. Wasn't that wild when I saw that? And this is a show about like someone like – and again, I understand people are waiting to get married.

And I'm not saying you have to be promiscuous to get married. But like experience and being – this is also not 1950 and people are settling down later in life. And it's hard – like people are getting married in different ways so with you know it's just hard to think that people are going to actually settle down with such limited dating experience and it seems like there's a lot of limited dating experience on this show and so that's harder for me to be like this is but it's wildly fun to watch and i do think colin's very sincere in his pursuit to meet someone. I mean, it's not necessarily his fault he has a lack of experience. I mean, I guess it's his decision, but.

I. Please tell me. I think that Colton is also playing into a character. Ooh. I think that he is, he's been billed. We all have a, we all have a thing, right? Like you were the promiscuous one, fourth's been billed. We all have a thing, right? Like you were the promiscuous one,

fourth time's a charm. I was like the bold, badass attorney, right? Like bitch was the only word that was missing, the B word. That's pretty much how they- Oh, I love how you evened it out because at first you were the whore and I was the awesome lawyer. You were the promiscuous bachelor,

I was the bitch, okay? Is that better? I was the bitch. With that better i was a bitch um with him he's the virgin so there is a character he has to play into and he's got like this like even when i watch him on on on days i do think he's like a sweet guy but i think he also plays it up this charm this i'm the good boy next door. I'm super skeptical. He's charming and he seems like

a very nice guy from what I know. I don't think he's charming. I think that he's playing into the good boy image. Like for example, I'm not a virgin. I mean,

one of the reasons I'm a virgin. Oh, it's Freudian slip. I'm not a virgin. No, we get it. I'm at him. He says one of the reasons he's a virgin. No, we get it. I met him. He says one of the reasons he's a virgin is because he was very focused on his football career.

I don't buy that shit for a second. Have you met a football player? I have. I know very, very focused. Very talented football players. Very talented, focused football players who had no problem meeting women or focusing on women as well. So when I, I can almost argue that the best football players in the world were some of the ones who were also really good at sex. And that's why I'm like, that to me is a, is a narrative that plays into the

narrative of the good boy. And that's what I say, But that's why I'm saying I don't believe him. And I felt that way when I watched Becca's season. I felt that in Paradise. And then I felt it, I feel it now. Well, I think that's bullshit. Like, it's the same reason why I thought Josh Murray was just like this whole time. It's like, well, you know, I was like on Andy's season.

It was like, well, Josh, you know, he was a minor league baseball player. Drafted second round. That's an incredible accomplishment. Amazing and but he sucked in the minor leagues let's just keep it real and it was like well why did you we were always like josh so like it's like why you know what happened you know like we legally just wanted to know and it was like well it just it wasn't conducive for a family life and it's like i know a lot of major league baseball players were married with kids like and we looked we looked it up, he had like a one 90 batting average. Oh, you weren't good. Fine. Like also you were like

way better than I did. Like, congratulations. Like where you were awesome. So I didn't buy that for a second coming out of Josh. I don't buy that for a second coming out with Colton. What I'm willing to buy though with Colton is I believe he's a virgin. I don't know. I don't necessarily buy his reasons, but I don't know if he necessarily knows what the reason is. And it sounds like a good thing to say. I think he's believes his own story. I do believe that. I believe that he's convinced himself. Um, he wanted to focus on football and he just hasn't had sex. The story changes every week though, as to why he's a virgin. It compounds on top of it.

Like, I'm a virgin because of football. I'm a virgin because of family. I'm a virgin because of, oh, this, that, and the other. Yeah, family values. Almost like he forgot about it. Like, oh, it's like I woke up one day, which is what a 40-year-old virgin says. Like, oh, I kind of like time just passed, and I'm this age. I'm still a virgin.

It's kind of how it's said. It does change every week. I'm willing to buy that, though, because here's a person, I kind of like time just passed and I'm this age and I'm still virgin. It's kind of how it's said. It does change every week. I'm willing to buy that though because here's a person, I'm sure he certainly had to do it because what The Bachelor does and The Bachelor producers do, they like to drive home a narrative.

Yeah. I got sick of being like, I'm, this is, you know, this, for me, I got like, I understand because like, there's this ego thing and then Colton does it too. Like even Ben, like I'm not lovable.

Of course you are. You're Ben Higgins. Like someone's going to like you. I like, I get self-conscious about like, I am single and I certainly have my issues in the dating life, but it's not again, like I'm not trying to like,

but I have, yeah, there's women who don't like me. There's plenty of people I've decided I don't want to date. Right. So when the bachelor, when I'm going through my season, it was just like,

well, Nick find someone just because Andy and Caitlin broke up with me. It's just like, it's not like this whole like premise that like, no one likes Nick, you know, like, will anyone ever pick Nick? You know, they literally edited it. So like Vanessa, like when they edited the show, it was Vanessa was going to let me know that she was, they weren't waiting for me to propose. Everyone knew I was going to propose. Well, Vanessa pick Nick is how they edited. That's not how it went.

I didn't even think about it. And so I get fucking defensive to be like, and you get like, and you're constantly defending that. Well, then I'm glad Colton has someone standing up for him. Colton's narrative is he's the virgin. He constantly has to address it because it comes up. I'm sure he's had to do this in life. And I'm assuming. But he's created the monster. I'm sure he's had to do this in life. And I'm assuming. But he's created the monster.

He told everybody he's a virgin. I don't feel sorry for him. I mean, like you decided to make the conscious decision. That is something you don't have to say on TV. Again, he knew it would be a story. He knew it separated him from every, I remember when he said it on Becca season,

I thought that guy's going to be the bachelor. I don't, it's Colton certainly has been very strategic with his public persona and has a team around him. And he's the right way. I mean, like he's being very smart. He's not,

he's not stupid. He's like, he's very set up. Do you think he has more of an angle than we think then? A hundred percent. I don't know. I don't know what it is, but I absolutely think. He's not as like, gee, gosh, as we, like, this is.

No, he's not as like, I'm the boy next door. You know, like, and call it me being skeptical, negative. I don't, I don't care. I just don't believe. I believe he's a virgin, but I just don't believe like. That would be rough if he were. Yeah, I know. I do believe him when he says that,

but I do think that there was a reason that you said it. Think about it. What the fuck would we be talking about about Colton if we didn't talk about it? Definitely not his NFL career. What would we be talking about if we didn't, if we weren't talking about Colton being a virgin? Well, I mean, again, Ben- What? Ben wasn't lovable.

That was the most made up bullshit in the world. Ben was dip- But Ben was Ben, right? Like Ben's a 10. I think that was like his thing. I just thought that was really cute. But like that's- Ben's different.

But is this also just a guy? He's not different. He's just like got the- Do you think Colton would be the bachelor if he wasn't a virgin? I mean, was a virgin. Wait. Yeah. Yeah. Wasn't a virgin. Maybe. Maybe. Yeah. I don't think it's- I don't think you the bachelor if he wasn't a virgin? I mean, was a virgin. Wait. Yeah.

Wasn't a virgin. Maybe. Yeah. I don't think you could definitely say he wouldn't be. I definitely, I can't say that. I definitely think he would not be. Because then he would have been like a Blake, a Jason. I think Blake and Jason were just regular guys.

Just as fun. Regular guys too. You know what I mean? But Colton, there was something, a narrative that they've never had before. Totally. Every year I think it was something, it that they've never had before and every year I think it was something it's something different so do you have to have

a gimmick now is that a thing I do you do you've always had to have a story you had a story you were the first

black bachelorette I mean that's a story and I said if they kept on the season I go if I do not want to keep talking about I'm black I get it

and what they do is they harp Andy harped the lawyer thing and I don't know what Caitlin well Caitlin her story, there was the two bachelorettes. Yeah. I don't know. But also, like, I'm a strategic person, and I sometimes feel like I have to defend that. You're a strategic person.

You can't, like, I know you are. There's nothing wrong with being calculated. You don't have to be manipulated to be calculated. But what are you calculated about? What I'm saying is that's what I like the difference. When I was asked to be the bachelor, it was as much of a surprise to me as anyone else. I didn't like, there was no, who I was going to go on paradise and become the bachelor. Yeah. Okay. Like, um, but when they asked me to like, do I, did I, I, when I said yes to being the bachelor, I, my first thought was wanting it to

work. Who are the women going to be? I want it to work. Is there an opera? Would I have said yes to being the bachelor, my first thought was wanting it to work. Who are the women going to be? I want it to work. Would I have said yes to the bachelor if no opportunities could come from it? Like, hey, Nick, just so you know, when you leave here, we're going to pick 30 women. You have to get engaged to one of them. Nothing else. But here's the difference.

I only did it for love. But that's the difference. You're talking about what you decided to do after you were named the bachelor fair I am talking about

what Colton did prior to to get to get to the I've always said that I think Colton always came in wanting to be the bachelor I'm not saying he didn't like Becca

I'm not saying that he definitely didn't like Tia but I'm not I'm not saying he didn't like Becca I do think he liked her but I also think you don't I don't think he didn't like Becca I do think he liked her but I also think you don't I don't think he ever

wanted to to be with Tia he had Tia before the show in fairness to Colton I don't I don't know who reached out to who

but they again like Bibi they hung out for a weekend and then all of a sudden Tia keeps showing up on Becca's season how is that Colton bad? no I hated that part

I I hated that what Tia did on on his on Becca's season. How is that cold and bad? No, I hated that part. I hated what Tia did on Becca's season. Excuse me, Tia's season. Excuse me, it became Tia's. He hung out with a girl once and then went on, like you can argue whether you should have done that. So they hung out once because she lives in bumfuck Arkansas and he lives in lived in California I think

they hung out once but that doesn't that doesn't negate that he reached out to her and it doesn't negate that he that they talked all the time whether it be through DM text messages

phone calls like I'm not gonna paint Tia as this crazy person who hung out with her he flew her to California at the same time I don't have a problem with what Tia did

but I'm just I'm just saying that and he slid in her DMs after seeing her on the show. Like he knew she was on The Bachelor. It's all hearsay for me. I've heard both sides. And everybody knew that Tia would have been The Bachelorette if the disaster hadn't happened

with Becca. I don't know about that. Well, okay, so it was always going to be we always knew Ari was going to leave Becca. No, I'm just saying, but the presumption that it was Tia's to lose is because Becca got dumped. Who else would it have been? I don't know. It could have been, I've heard,

well, I've heard it could have been Christina. Christina heard it could have been Christina. I believe that narrative too. And I say that as a friend. I'm Christina's friend. And like, she could get, she's not going to get mad at me for saying that. Like nobody was talking about Christina

being the natural man. I agree Because there's a lot of It's notorious for all the All the Bachelor people Who like have been considered To be the Bachelor It's like no you weren't

It was going to be Tia It might have been I just like also Just like the whole thing It's just like It was going to be Luke Until it wasn't Like you know what I'm saying

For all It was going to be Luke Until it wasn't Fine but like He still wasn't These are facts though He wasn't It was going to be Luke Until it wasn't Well Luke was certainly Was'm saying for all it was gonna be luke until it was fine but like they he still wasn't these are facts though he wasn't it was going to be well luke was certainly was definitely gonna be check this out just just just play with me for a second let's do a hypothetical here he has he slides into tia's dms tia today talk talk talk to where she's comfortable

enough to fly out to california and be with. Then she becomes the bachelorette. And then he shows up on her season. Mind you, it's not like he randomly met Tia. He knew she was on the show. He slides in her DMs. She becomes the bachelorette. Now you have this whole narrative of, well, we knew each other before.

Which is, it didn't work for me. We established this relationship. It didn't. That's a risk. But you got to, you got far. And so it's like, even if it didn't. I mean, again, keep in mind, I did not plan on coming on K-1 season. And I know you didn't work for me this relationship it didn't risk but you got to you got far and so it's like even i mean again i keep in mind i did not plan on coming on and i know you didn't y'all talked before and it got you on the show and i'm just saying that wasn't your narrative but i'm saying that but with him if that were colton's plan couldn't that backfire if it was his plan

how would it backfire well if his plan was i'm gonna meet tia going to meet Tia, I'm going to get to know Tia, and then she's going to become the Bachelorette, and then I'm going to go on, and it's going to get me far because she's comfortable with me. What if that cut out? And then how do you become the Bachelor if it-

But it did kind of get out that he talked to her before. And I think that after you becoming the Bachelor, I think there are no rules. Totally. But with Tia coming on pursuing Colton, it changed the narrative. It protected Colton because she's pursuing him, but

that wasn't part of Colton's plan per you. But even if she hadn't come on, he decided to tell Becca that he talked to Tia. There's a storyline. There was a story. That was before Tia ever came on the season. He said, I just want you to know I dated one of your friends. Bam! There's a storyline. That was before Tia ever came on the season.

He said, I just want you to know I dated one of your friends. Bam! There's a story. We're all talking about it. We're all talking about Tia and Colton. I actually said that after the first episode. I go, we're just going to skip over the fact

that Tia wasn't involved on Colton's journey. We're just going to skip the whole Bachelor in Paradise thing. You've got to pass, for sure. Can't talk about Colton without talking about Tia. A lot of what you're saying makes sense. paradise thing. No, you definitely got to pass for sure. Can't talk about cult without talking about Tia. Yeah. I mean, a lot of what you're saying makes sense. I also like, it's a, for someone again, like for me, I remember like, I know Josh, like had this whole idea that like, I planned it all. From the time I was at Andy's Seats to me being The Bachelor, it was some sort of fucking

master plan. Like I had a lot of happy accidents and it sometimes blow my mind. The small things or certain unique people that aren't even attached to the show that I had to meet and other things that have happened to eventually have it blows my mind when I play it back in my head, the

butterfly effect, so to speak. And yet because I'm a strategic person, I've been like, yeah, Nick had this plan the whole time. I never thought that you had it. Not you, but I know certain people who maybe didn't quite like me. Well, let's shift the narrative. Let's put that on Colton. It would be hard to believe.

I'm trying to start something new here, Nick. I'm trying to take the pressure off you. I don't understand why nobody's talking about it with me because I'm so negative and I'm so cynical. Shit, if Colton had this whole plan, I mean, I'm almost impressed. I'm impressed. Like, kudos to you. I'm not taking, you cannot convince me otherwise. I'm sorry.

I just. He's very well set up. And I'm not saying that whatever the girl he chose, I'm not saying he doesn't like her. I'm not saying that they won't be together. Like, these are the things that people will say that I'm saying and I'm not. I'm not taking away from him liking someone because sometimes it is a beautiful surprise say that I'm saying, and I'm not. I'm not taking away from him liking someone. Because sometimes it is a beautiful surprise.

When I went on, when I became the Bachelorette, I told my family I wouldn't like any guys. I was like, you know I'm not going to like any of these guys. They won't find someone for me. And then I was wonderfully surprised by Brian. So I'm not doubting Colton's relationship and who he's chosen. I just think that the way he got there was all a part of the master plan. Okay. Well, that about

sums it up for our Bachelor conversations. Quick notes. Demi's still awesome. She's great. Love Demi. More Demi in the future. She's good. Yeah. Let's get to some Q&A shall we

alright well Amanda thank you for calling in this is Nick this is Rachel how can we help I've had this problem in two separate relationships

it's kind of when the parents can't let go of the ex so for example in my last relationship like the ex was very comfortable was very comfortable calling his mom even two

years in to say hello. And it was not an issue. I even had to tell my own mother like, hey, that's really disrespectful because she was in contact with my brother's ex. I was like, you know, you can't develop a relationship with a new girl if you're still holding on to the old girl. Yeah. So, you know, how do you guys deal with that that's a great question i had to deal with that a little bit in my um first relationship and in my third relationship you know my parents really liked them both as people and especially uh my third girlfriend um you know i loved her family and we got close and it's just i think it's one of those things you just have to, like the maturity of just, yeah, like that's an unfortunate casualty of relationships

is that if you have a serious relationship, even if you aren't engaged, but you date for a few years and family is a priority, because if family is a priority, you're like, hey, I want to introduce you to my family. I want to get to know my family. And then you start hanging out and you become friends.

And that is an unfortunate casualty of a breakup. And the hard things about real breakups is sometimes you're not just saying goodbye to that one person. You're saying goodbye to a whole life. And it's maybe not the family. It's groups of friends. Friends break up and it's like, well, you know, like who gets who in the divorce? You know, like, and sometimes you don't get both friends.

When I say my third girlfriend, my best friend, his wife, that's how I got on the show, became friends with her. And after we broke up, we both stood up in their wedding. And, you know, the hard part about that is it actually took the, it dragged on the breakup. We never got back together, but it was so fresh. And even though we broke up and I ended the relationship because I just didn't think we were compatible, I still loved her. And we still had a lot of fun together. We, you know, part, we broke up because it wasn't how good a great it was when it was good as how bad it was when it was bad. I was like, I just don't, this is like, we don't, I'm not my best version around you. But when we would have fun, fuck, I loved being around her.

And so like I would hang out with my friends and it was, it made it hard. Family, that was harder because we're friends. But family, it's like, I think you, I think you're right. I think it's fair to say to your parents, like mom, dad, I'm sorry. Like Chuck's a great guy, but you gotta let him go. I mean, Amanda, unfortunately I cannot relate.

I don't, kudos to you. Maybe this means you're picking really good guys. No, no, no. Her family's awesome by the way. My family doesn't, my family never gets close to exes until like, like Brian, I would say is probably the closest because we're engaged. I met Rachel's dad. We're moving towards, we're moving towards, can you say that in a second?

We're moving towards, we're moving towards, can you say that in a second? We're moving towards, we're moving towards a marriage, but my parents never, I guess they're kind of old school, so they don't believe in getting too close until it's actually official. So yeah, I've never actually faced this. My siblings too, like my sisters don't talk to my exes. I mean, I still- What about your brother-in-law?

He's very friendly. Super friendly, but he's only met one. Really? So I actually talked to my ex's sister. I don't know if Brian knows that. You heard it here first. I still talk to my ex's sister, but like we just have a friendship

and a relationship outside of that. But anyways, everything Nick said, because I can't really give advice on that one. But that means you picked good guys. I will say that sometimes, again, there's exceptions to every rule, is that I do think there are moments like people are like, can you be friends with exes? The general answer is no.

Friends with all my exes. Well, fine. But it also depends on the extent of a relationship or lack thereof, how serious got. And sometimes I also think there needs to be like a gap in between, like a real separation of like we dated for a period of time and then we just, we broke up. So we stopped talking. There was a disconnect. And then maybe for whatever reason, there was a reconnection.

But at that point, the relationship is so far removed. You can appreciate each other and people as friends. And I think in those specific situations, you can be friends. And if you are in a relationship and you are, you're dating someone who's confident in that relationship and they're mature enough to not be intimidated by the fact that you dated someone three years ago. But like, like, I don't know, like my ex girlfriend who I keep referring to, she's now married with a kid and I've met her now husband and he's a great fucking dude. And I care her and I as a person I still love her but like if I ever we don't talk but like I would if I am lucky enough to be in a relationship again I would have

no problem like being like she's my friend you know but like would you invite her to your wedding like we're not we don't talk but I wouldn't not if like somehow like i moved home and saw more of her and became friends with her and her husband which i actually think he's a really cool dude and i like like hanging out with him there's a there's a world in which i could see myself inviting her to my wedding i'm not against it but like right now she's just not a part of my life so it wouldn't make much sense so i do think if there's a separation it can it can work but like the immediate breakup it's super weird we're well, what'd you do today? I'm like, well, I was talking to your ex. I still love him. He's great. You got to tell your parents

to cut the cord, cut it, cut it out, shut it down. It's a dick move, mom. So you think like, if I run into this situation in another relationship, I should be like, Hey, you know, could you talk to your parents and, you know, let them know it bothers me. Cause I, I know I can't be the only one who's ever had this issue. I've had it more than one. So just is your parents are doing it too, or they're like, are you still talking to their what's going on here? No, no, no, no. It's, it's my, my exes. When I was two separate exes, I was with them their mothers would still talk to their previous girlfriend oh so if I was like in this situation again you know how do you how would I handle that just oh yeah I really feel but your mom did it too once my mom did it okay that's what

I that's what I heard that's a tough call how do you do that I mean that's a weird thing if you're going to the next relationship like before we get started does your mom talk to your exes because that's I don't know my okay so Brian's mom is very close was very close with his ex but they don't talk anymore and I think that if they did I think you have to go to the your significant other and tell him to have the conversation because you can't be the bad person. Like you can't do it. And I think so too. Yeah.

You just have to be able to have that open communication where you can talk to him and then he relays the message. Here's a question. How quickly do you start dating these people once they broke up with their exes? You know, I don't really have a rule for them. I have a rule for me. I didn't ask what your rule is. I'm just asking, what was the timing?

Were they broken up for like two days, a month? So like in my last relationship, it was probably about three months. And that relationship for him, he was engaged to her. So at first I kind of like let it go, but still two years in, that's when I was like, all right, you need to have a conversation with your mother.

Okay. So like, yeah, those are like two different, that's the thing. Cause like, listen, there's nothing wrong with if someone, if you meet someone, they broke up with someone two weeks ago. Well, Hey, timing, whatever. There's nothing wrong with pursuing that relationship, but there's sometimes there might be some residuals effect of rushing into a relationship where that other relationship hasn't really like that breakup hasn't taken its course. So maybe there's some understanding if like expect that if you're going to jump into a relationship and like,

Hey, just, you know, like I just got out of this very serious relationship three weeks ago. You might have to deal with some shit, you know? And if that's fine, if you like,

but after some time passes, yes, I think it's reasonable to be like, okay, now it's just weird. And I do think it's fair to Rachel's point. I absolutely think if your guy respects you, if it's the other sex, like you should go to them and say, this makes me feel uncomfortable. And I don't think I'm being unreasonable.

And I would really appreciate you asking your mom to shut this down and making sure that they don't throw you under the bus. Yeah. And I think it will be very't throw you under the bus. Yeah. And I think it will be very telling their relationships with their parents. Exactly. If they can like, well, mommy, she like, you know, Amanda made me do it. Be like, no, mom, I'm not okay with you still talking to Erica and they should own that and they should, they should have your back for sure. And if they don't, that's a red flag.

As Rachel would always say to me i would always wave red flags i'm like what do you mean she's like you'll know she's a anyways is that helpful i think that'll help me and other people too because it's you know it's a a thin line because it's family. Exactly. That's why you have to let him handle his family. I love my family deeply. Sometimes family doesn't always make the, like family is family and they're there through

thick and thin. And sometimes you need to be like, yo, stop. Yeah. You know, because also when it comes to breakups too is, you know, it's like anything else. It's like when people say like, well, why are you good at relationship advice when you suck at relationships? Well, cause I'm not personally affected by the advice I'm giving. And when you break up with someone, your family might be sad, but they're not going through what you're going through. So they're just not even thinking about that. It does bother you. Yeah. You know, it's, it's a lot easier to do things when you're not

personally affected and they, they might be affected, but they're not affected like you, you know? And so it's, it's different. So cut them some slack, but also like shut it down. Yeah. Gotcha. Cool. Well, thank you. Hopefully this was helpful. Good luck. Good luck in your relationship. Thanks guys. Hi, I'm Stephanie. Hi Stephanie. This is Rachel. I'm Nick. Hi. I know. I love you guys. You two are actually my favorite. That's what they all say. I will eat it up. Thank you, Stephanie. It's so nice to meet you. I love you guys because I connected the most with you two. Thank you. That means a lot.

How can we help now that you've flattered us? So I was recently ghosted by my boyfriend of three and a half years. So just instead of ending it, he decided let's just disappear. I'm really interested in this. Which is fine, you know, it's whatever. Can I interrupt? I'm sorry. I apologize.

I just want, when it comes to ghosting, and I have a big question, I would, and you're doing a good job. I want a lot of specifics because I want to know, like, I think when people say ghosting, there's various degrees. So you were dating this guy for how long? We were dating for three and a half years. And then one day he just disappeared? Yeah.

Fuck. Stephanie, this has happened to me. So I'm very, actually very curious to hear what you have to say. That's definitely ghosting. And so like, so you're three and a half years gone. Like one day you're like, hey, we're going gonna like go to like applebee's and it was gone we um we had made plans well i was going to see a concert with friends near his hometown and he said oh maybe i'll stop by and see you when you're passing through and the night of the concert i

texted him was like hey this is where i'm gonna be this is the hotel i'm at and he was like cool see you then and then the next morning i just never heard from him ever have you heard from him since and then he just never answered me this is december and um so yeah he's officially it's just done so how old are you stephanie i'm 25 wow so you have 31 31 this i mean this happened to me when i was 19 i was dating him for six months and this was the group my first girlfriend we got together And he's 31. 31. I mean, this happened to me when I was 19. I was dating him for six months. And this was my first girlfriend. We got together six more times. But one time she literally just disappeared.

And six months later, whatever. This is very different. This is an adult relationship. And it went on for three and a half years. Wow. And you had no email, nothing. And do you live in the same town or like how do you not have you tried so he so he lived in connecticut and um i had gone to school there

we met in college um and like at the tail end of me graduating and then we kind of did a long distance thing for a while and then i moved back um near his hometown. So it was a little easier for us to be together more often. And we had, it was like a year that I lived near him. So we had a pretty good year, you know, being together and things were a little more serious. We were talking more and like, it seemed like it was going good. And then I moved out of that town and things kind of fell apart. And then I think he just got fed up with it. So he ended it the wrong way. So my question is, what is your question? So my question is, how do you not get past being ghosted by someone, but like, you know,

you know, getting over that person per se, but getting past that fear of being ghosted in future relationships, like trusting someone enough to like, not sure think that it's going to happen. Cause you don't always want to think someone's going to do something bad to you, but you know, you have that fear in the back of your mind. It's really fucked up.

What happened? Yes. I, I, this literally happened to me. I was 23 and I was dating this guy for four years off, but off and on, off and on. Right. And I was dating this guy for four years. But off and on, off and on, right? And here's the thing.

There were, if I look back, and I don't, this is, you don't have to answer this. There were things that should have let me know that this is, this guy is the type of guy that is a possible Casper, right? Like, you know, that's just what we'll call your boyfriend for the moment. And, um, you said you know, that's what we'll call your boyfriend for the moment. And the reason he left me, I did two years later, talk to him and we actually are friends now because remember I said I'm friends with all my exes. to tell me that he didn't know how to break up with me. And he ended up going like, it's so dramatic, but getting somebody else pregnant. Now they're married and they have kids together, but he didn't know how to tell me. And I, and not that that was an okay thing, but it was kind of comforting to at least finally get an answer. But here's the thing. You don't really need an answer. It's obvious. This is not somebody that you should be with. This isn't

somebody you should be that is even deserving of your time. And you almost have it hurts in the beginning. And you should embrace that and be present in the moment with how you're feeling. But then also have that like Adele, like, can I curse in front of you, Stephanie? Are we close enough? Sure, go for it. You have to have that Adele, fuck you, not fuck men, but fuck you mentality. Like you're better than that.

He doesn't deserve you. Whoever is with him is going to have to deal with all of his shit. And it's all about like you finding the next best person for you. Like grieve and then fuck him. One of the worst parts of it. Literally. One of the worst parts of it is that like I, you know, January 1st when I told myself, okay, he's been gone for three weeks. I haven't heard from him.

I was like, I'm going to start a plan to get past him and do better things for my life. And so I mapped out this whole thing. I'm in this inspirational group and I'm reading all these personal growth books to do some positive things. I'm reading all of these personal growth books to do some positive things. And then I block him with social media. And then a week later, Facebook suggests a friend to me. And I see that it has a picture of my ex-boyfriend with a new girl. And it's his new girlfriend, clearly, that Facebook has suggested me be friends with.

And I'm like, this just completely set a whole new set of questions in my mind like how long have they been together and you know is this why he ghosted me and so like that's why like i've been so confused like how do you even think of moving forward with another person you know when you have that fear of them doing the same thing yeah because it's such a you know popular thing apparently ghosting ghosting yeah i mean it's a catchphrase i mean it's it's been happening. It's a punk move. And I agree with everything Rachel said. To add to it, I think, like Rachel said, I don't think there's anything wrong with acknowledging your pain and not necessarily embracing it, but don't run from it. Probably.

Probably. He probably, like, there was probably some unfortunate overlap between you and her. It's a good guess to assume, right? Ultimately it doesn't matter to Rachel's point, right? Your ego wants the answer. Your ego wants like to, why did this happen to me? Does this, it, whatever the reason is, it has absolutely no reflection of you as a person and has a reflection of them as a person, you know, that the choices they make.

And to Rachel's point, you can prevent this in the future by paying attention to the signs. You probably could go back. And I know I could go back in my past relationships and be like, okay, yeah, that was probably something I should have paid attention to that. Should have paid attention to that and pay attention to that. So next time, and again, like people, like I always, I always have a problem with people who like, if they got cheated on or ghosted like they immediately like put that baggage on the next person they go on a date don't do that but you can still be mindful of red flags you can be like all right listen i'm not gonna rush the judgment but like

you did this shit and i don't think i'm like exaggerating by asking you like hey listen this happened before and i just need to address this because this is a red flag to me so just right this happens you're not the only one unfortunately but learn from it be mindful be honest with yourself about the things you can't control and the things you can't control um and yeah unfortunately dating is hard and there's some shitty people in there and like like to rachel's point it's not that he's a bad guy he's probably being very selfish and immature in this moment and he's certainly too immature to deal with it. And it's not something you want.

And the fact that he is 31 probably demonstrates that. I didn't catch that. He's 31 and he did this? He's not growing up anytime soon. And to piggyback on that part, let's just be petty for a moment. He's no longer your headache. Don't you kind of like on the inside laugh a bit and you're like, that girl's got to deal with

that basket case like that's like yeah that that is not a prize my mom that the other day i was like now that's it it doesn't exactly yeah absolutely and if i i'll say this a hundred times more on future episodes when it comes to being cheated on or ghosted and only to find out they were like there's some overlap it fucks with you and it fucks with your ego and it it's, it's like every time someone's cheated on him, people are like, well, what happened with you and your boyfriend? It's like, oh, I don't know. Like it just didn't work out. Cause you feel stooped. I did when I got cheated on. You're just like, it's like a reflection of who you are. It has nothing to do with you. So the fact that he is dating someone, it sucks. But like to Rachel's point, great. Because what you really don't want is him to get bored,

have you move on and then like creep back in your life and have that affect you because your ego needs to validate that you're still worthwhile to him because it doesn't really matter. And one of the important things you said is that you're in an inspirational group. Like that's so big to have like a support system of people who are uplifting you.

And like, you know, whether you're reading, you're having the conversation surrounding yourself with that type of energy and not that the the other type so good for you like keep that going that's awesome embrace that thanks you're doing great you are so much better and think about this about this way you don't have to carry that shit into 2019 like this is is all a, I left you in 2018. This is 2019. It's not about you. Like that's so good. You don't have to carry that.

I have a question for you because I get this a lot. Whenever when people ask me dating questions, they're like, well, I was dating for three years. I was dating for four years. And I understand it's important. I'm glad you shared that with us to give us some perspective of the answer. But also like, I feel like sometimes people say it is like, well, I've invested this much time already. It's harder to leave.

It's just like- That's a real thing. Also, know what's better than not investing three and a half? Not investing 10 or 15 or four. Or if he could fuck with you for another year. To Rachel's point, you're finally out. You're only 25. That's super young.

He did you a favor. The world's in front of you. I mean, like I know it hurts, but I'm just saying like positive thinking. He did. And the fact that he is like, if he was 24,

25, like, oh, like he maybe has some growing up to do like this guy. Nah, this is who he is. Loser. Yeah,

no, it just, I think it's one of those things that like hit me really hard because I'd been with him for such a long time. And like for me to I'd been with him for such a long time. And like for me to be with someone that three years is a long time. Oh, for sure. And you know,

and I kind of saw it going in one direction and that was the way that we were talking about it going and then it completely like did a U-turn. So I think that's why it was really like, Oh man, I was with this guy for three years and I wasted so much time. Oh, you have so much time. Now I just have to look forward. Don't think of so much time. Oh, you have so much time. But now I just have to look forward.

You have so much time. Stephanie, what's his Instagram name so I can troll him? That's your call. I don't care. You don't even have an Instagram. Okay, Facebook. I'm just kidding. The only last advice I'd give you,

maybe a literal exercise you can do, is I would do this and then stop thinking about him if you can, but really dwell on, if you're going to dwell on them, dwell about the things that you actually couldn't stand about him. I'm sure there were plenty dwell on the things that pissed you off. There's a things that you didn't appreciate how he treated you, all the shit you got mad at about. It's a little petty, but like focus on that and like remind yourself like, you know what, maybe this guy really wasn't all that great because right now you're, because you're trying to figure out why he ghosted or if he was dating someone,

you're subconsciously glorifying this guy without even trying to do it. Because it's like, he did this to me. Like, no, like remind yourself that he was incredibly at best average and kind of an immature piece of shit. And keep the list and then use it as something as a learning thing for your next, next relationship. Yeah. But, but, but don't like bring that list on the first date. Let them fuck up first before you start being like, add to it. Number 25. All right. Go down my checklist. Do you do any of these things?

All right. Well, hopefully that was helpful. Good luck. All the best. You are going to be great. I'm excited for your new future. I am. Thank you. All right. Take care. How can we help you, Emma? I've been single for about over two years now, and I haven't really met anyone or been talking to anybody that I've really been interested in until about five months ago I started seeing my neighbor um and I was like really falling for him but then his behavior just kind of became super inconsistent to the point where I was like okay he's clearly not as into this as I am so I just ended things and like haven't talked to him since. That kind of leads to my question, which is why do I seem to be interested in guys that aren't interested in me? Ooh. While you think about it, you might have a... No, no, go ahead. Go ahead. Go ahead. I think in general, the reality is it sometimes feels that way more than it is that way.

Because when we feel like we're not liked or rejected, we, you know, it's like not to relate it. I don't know if this is going to sound dumb, but like I always like on social media, regardless if you have a following or not, you don't notice the 10 nice comments. You notice the one negative comment. And that's the one that kind of sits with you. And that's the one you kind of pine about. I'm certain I don't know anything about you. You seem like a really nice woman. You're very pretty. I'm certain there's plenty of guys who you just don't pay attention to the guys that you're not interested in. And I don't mean like, I get that's like, I'm pointing out what you're saying, but like, you're just kind of like your ego worries about that. There's plenty of guys that you're not interested in either. And the one, like, you're just the ones that you are, like some guys won't

like you, like all of us, there's, I don't care who you are. There are people that won't like, I don't care who you are. There's no person who can literally get anyone they want and have that someone never get sick of them i don't care who you are true it happens to literally everyone and when that happens it fucks with you right i and i just you know i guess i'm just saying i guess what i'm saying is i wouldn't it's like you're you because you're i feel like you're asking is like oh why am i doing this or what's – am I making bad choices or am I doing something wrong or whatever? I think this is kind of life and it feels worse than it is. And until – and again, I'm speaking in like these generic lines. The most amount of relationships that we'll have that will never fail is one.

God forbid, unless you meet someone and they pass away and they die and it was a great relationship, except they die, you meet someone else. But other than that, the most amount of relationships you can have that won't fail is one. So like until you meet someone that like it works out and you both mutually like each other the same amount of time, it's just a rare thing. So until then, you're not going to like guys who like you and you're going to like guys who don't like you until you meet that person where you're both like, I fucking love you. And you're like, holy shit, I've never had this before. And that's great. And I just think in general,

that's kind of life. And so until that happens, when guys aren't as into you as much as you like them, it's just, you know, that shit happens, you know,'t as into you as much as you like them, that shit happens. That's kind of what I think. Yeah, no, and I agree with everything you're saying. I guess I just have a question. Other than this guy you mentioned that you dated for five months, what makes you say that you continue to pick guys that don't like you?

Has that happened within the two years? Are you judging that before? Like, I guess I'm just trying to understand why you would generalize it into this pattern. Yeah, I feel like over the two years, there's been a few instances where it's been the same, where the guy just like isn't into me or they're kind of just like playing the field a lot more than I am. And then there's like a few guys in my life that I know are into me and like would be interested in dating me, but it's just not fully reciprocated on my end.

Like I'm just not. That's kind of what I'm- Emma, let me ask, how old are you? Yeah, that's my next question. 26. 26, okay. How old are these guys generally? Yes, I need to,

are you picking the same type of guy? The ones you're interested in? How old are these guys generally? Yes. Are you picking the same type of guy? The ones you're interested in? How old are they? How old are these guys? Actually, I'm pretty sure the past two that have acted in this way were the same age and they were 33. Okay. Like older men. Now, are you picking the same type of guy?

Probably. No. There is something to this. No, Emma, I used to date the same type of guy. In my head, he had to be this, this, and this, okay? I just want to say that Brian is not those things, okay, that were on the list. I had a certain type, and I always picked the same type of guy. Not necessarily even looks, just the and I always pick the same type of guy not necessarily even looks just the same sure personality and the same thing would continue to happen to me and I say this also because you said there are guys that are interested but then you don't feel a certain way about it so I don't know if it's necessarily that guys aren't into you you might just be picking the same type of guy. Yeah.

Like maybe, go ahead. No, I've got a question for you. I love a male opinion. I got to. No, I really do. That felt condescending. No, no, no. I really do.

I truly feel like that helps you in relationships. I have a question because I feel like you're, I agree with everything you're saying because I look back on my life and kind of think, okay, these are the people I've dated. And there's a similarity between all of them. I've always been strong-minded, opinionated women. I've said this before. What I've realized, and I'm not apologetic. I like that. I want my next person I'm with to be opinionated. But learning from my past mistakes, I do still

need some, it's not just being opinionated. It's having also the maturity and the emotional presence to like also to communicate and talk. So I need, I need to make adjustments, but it wasn't that, you know, ultimately the relationships ended. I broke up with some of them. Some of them broke up with me type of thing, but it wasn't about them liking each other. It just, I realized that those relationships weren't sustainable. And I feel like these are two different things of like you're these guys that you realize you dated them. They liked you. You, so like, I think learning, adjusting who you're attracted to, but I feel

like Emma's talking about the initial like courting period of like, I like these guys and everyone. I feel like there's something there that I get excited about. I don't feel like it's reciprocated. Well, I think that there's a common, I ask because is there a common denominator in the type of guy that you're going after? Okay. So for me, so I'll be more specific. I loved athletes. Okay. I don't say anything. Jersey chaser. I, you call it what you want. I was sports fan. I loved athletes. Okay. And there is a, there is a stereotype with, with athletes, you know, it doesn't matter what sport you're in. And there is a, there is a stereotype with, with athletes, you know, it doesn't matter what sport you're in. And so what I realized is the guy might be different, but there are certain characteristics that are within these type of guys where there's this

common denominator that is not conducive to a healthy relationship for me, or we don't want the same things. So, you know, whether it's an athlete, an attorney, doctor, whatever for you, that's what maybe it is that you look at what the common denominator is. And maybe that's not the type of guy you go for. So like, I don't think that you should say what's wrong with me. Is it me? You know, like maybe just reevaluate the type of man that you're going after. That's, I think, what I was trying to get at in the whole thing. It's not you. I really think that is a common denominator.

Yeah. No, I definitely, well, that was kind of my point too, like early on, is that it's definitely not like you. I mean,

but, and so like, I do think as we date, kind of, and I've, you know, kind of been redundant, like dating is a learning experience. And definitely the one great thing about breaking up with someone

is the opportunity to redefine and continue to find what is your best fit all right and so every person you date there's an opportunity to be like okay you know without trying to like totally mold your person yeah but also what i said in the beginning is just the not beat yourself up with the fact that, you know, finding that one person is not the easiest thing. And so even though, again, it, it does like you're, you're worried about, you call him as like these guys I like, don't like me. Well, clearly there's plenty of guys who like, you don't like them, you know, and they're calling some other podcasts, be like, why doesn't this, you know? And so my only point of saying that is it's, it's hard, right? So don't sweat that. Don't focus on that. Don't change who you are, but also learn to Rachel's point, just be mindful of what's working and what's not. Don't, don't sacrifice what you know is important to you, but also don't, you know, don't force things

that haven't worked for you in the past. Right. So I feel like we did that together. If we would have done that on the show, we would have worked. Right. It's all my fault. Which is also the point of this call. Thank you so much. You're welcome. Have a great day. Good luck.

Have fun. Also, if you're going to date your neighbor, really make sure they're a sure thing. That's awkward. Yeah, luckily we haven't run into each other since then. Oh, good. Fingers crossed for me. That's good.

And if you do, indifference. Be like the night you've, treat him like your brother. Yeah. Hey, what's up? How you doing? Yeah, great. Totally good to see you. And check this out, Emma.

If it's not working out there you can always apply on the bachelor and find love that way i have been um nominated and submitted an audition she's got blonde hair her name's emma she's a shoo-in emma you're a shoo-in i'll remember your name talk to a casting producer after this this great girl you guys can help me out for the next season all right emma if you get on that I'll remember your name. Talk to a casting producer after this. This is great, girl. You guys can help me out for the next season. Emma, if you get on that season and you don't bring us in to talk to continue to advise you,

we're going to be upset. Also, it's an option, but it's not the option. It worked for Rachel, but I tried a few times and here I am. Thank you. Have a I am. All right. Well, have a great day. All right. Take care.

We didn't really get in a lot about lying or what I had this planned for, but I do think this was fun. I mean, I had a great time catching up and reminiscing with you. I absolutely did. I feel like this is like a full circle moment. Like I always knew we would be cool. We would be cool friends. And I do feel like we got into lying because I did talk about people lying or maybe not being

100% honest. Right? Yeah. You know, sometimes we're not honest with ourselves. Is there a difference? Yeah. No. When I was talking... She thinks Colin's a liar. I just don't think he's being truthful about who he is and what he wants. But I think we all tell our versions too.

And I think that's, we talked about like, you know, lying or, you know, sometimes my biggest frustration that I, you know, have with some of my peers from the show or people that I've had interactions with is they tell their truth, you know, their version of their truth. And it's not that the, what, it's not even if specifically anything they said is necessarily untrue.

They conveniently leave out other things that like paint a different picture. Absolutely. It's like talking about like when people ask about the show, it's, yeah,

this all happened. You know, this is all, yeah, sure. It's edited by definition, but sometimes a show leaves things out.

And sometimes the things that people leave out would paint a different picture or show a different like canvas. I feel like that's more real in this in the bachelor bubble because of the separation we have with each other you really do have your version and they don't know and we know this perspective because we've been on both sides as a contestant you have no idea what it's like to be in the lead and and like no idea for for example like you knew you were into Vanessa but we didn't know that at the time so we have our truth of what it

is and there really is a whole nother version because of what you know as the lead like I my Peter my number two guy tells a different story than what I did but he has no idea what I knew that he didn't know. Well, that's the thing. It's like, I totally know. Cause as a lead, you're just like, and again, like people ask, what's it like to be the bachelor? It's like, well, to be honest, like you, listen, you connect with a small group and I don't

know who your guys were, but I can, I'm, I'm without even asking. I know that there were probably less than five guys you felt a legitimate chemistry with, whether it was love or not, but you felt like you're connecting and the rest were like, I don't even know how to talk to you. And kind of like being the bachelor is like trying to figure out how you still get to know these women, be respectful, be nice, be nice and send them home before they hate you. Because eventually they're very intuitive. They realize there's a lot of ego involved and it's easier said than done.

Like, again, I couldn't help how I felt about Vanessa. I just had this natural chemistry. I also like had legitimate chemistry and connections with you, which was miles different than like, and lover Alexis or, you know, or Christina or like Danielle, you know, both Danielle's, it just wasn't the same.

Like you made it easy for me to talk to. And like, anytime you like showed up, I was like, oh, thank God Rachel's here. And you have those people. You know, you have, yeah. And so, and like, and so it's hard to do. And so like, you're always just like, it's, you're trying to combat that. And like the contestants, again, it's just those egos evolved of being like, well, they weren't that great or whatever.

And like, you know, you've had it too which i didn't realize but no yeah and i think but that's but that's the thing is it is that person's truth but there's a whole nother side that they have no idea they know about like you know it's it's it's crazy it is their truth though it really is and they really are telling their version but there's just different i do think sometimes they leave things out no everybody it's like their version but it's like well i didn't fail to mention that or like i i'm very defensive of producers because it's like yeah i've had my frustrations but it is such an easy scapegoat to be like well i was i mean they made me do that or i said that because of the producers like saying what you think the producers want you to say and saying because you claim they said

told you to say that are two very different things did you ever say and saying because you claim they said told you to say that are two very different things did you ever say blame anything on editing because i never did well i actually i said with brian there were certain things because our narrative was that we were like hot sexy and you know like very physical which we were but there was also another side of it but when it came to me i never never was like, oh, that was editing. No, what I said, I said, well, what I say too is like,

I will say that I was vilified on Andy season. Right. But like I was like, I, you know, did I also do and say those things? Sure. But like,

I mean, I was watching it last night too. Like when Elise went home, it's amazing what the music tells you to feel. Right. How about that music with Colton and Cassie in the water? It was intense or like romantic because like I thought to myself while watching it, but like you change the soundtrack. Like when, when, well, when Elise was leaving, you're like,

what is going on? This is so, this is such a huge deal. And all that really happened is some girl was like, I think I want to go home. Right. Not a really big deal. And the music just tells you how to feel. And so a lot of times when was reading andy a poem or giving a flowers or like sneaking over to say hi because i'm like i just wanted more time with her because i was excited about her it was it's like oh you might kill her like i don't know like okay i didn't see the season but for that reason alone i want to go back and watch it with br, with Brian. They always played a Latin music. Yeah. Or every little look that you make, you know, as you know, the camera is on you 24 seven. Yeah. And you know, throughout the day you can like get tired or annoyed or bored.

You could be thinking about anything. Yeah. Who knows what the shit we're thinking about when you're locked in that world. Well, they're capturing all those expressions. And when you really pay attention to the show, they show you glimpses of expressions. You know, they'll say something, someone will talk some shit

and also an expression of something else to validate. So that shit happens all the time. Yeah. But, you know, and so I do feel like I was vilified, sure. But I also did all those things and they and i will always i always contend that the show does attempt to tell the story that happened that because the truth and again i go back it's also high school the bachelor world the household is high school it's petty in in whatever and the truth is on any season i wasn't like part of the

in group i was the outsider was like fuck it i like this girl I wasn't like part of the end group. I was the outsider. I was like, fuck it. I like this girl. I don't really care. And the edit tends to go with that unless maybe you're the winner. It's so funny that you said that. It just made me think of something that happened during your season when you said that you weren't in the end group. What did you guys call yourselves? What did we call ourselves?

It wasn't the cool kids, but it has something to that effect. It was something really petty. It was like, I don't know. But I mean, yes, I was in the in crowd. No, you were the leader of the in crowd. I was not. You might have been nominated, but you were definitely. I was like the mother.

I was the oldest. But Vanessa wasn't in the in crowd. And there was a comment that she made one time about how y'all understand each other. Because y'all both had similar situations in the house. Oh, Vanessa and I? Yeah. And I just remember thinking, that's not it. In fairness of Vanessa and that, I know what it's like to be the outsider.

And feel like the target on your back. Because it sounds like there's... But that's not what it's like to be the outsider and feel like, you know, like the target on your back because like, it sounds like there's, that's not what happened. I'm not, I can't speak for that, but like, you know, again, everyone has their version of just like, I remember like, I was kind of friends with Josh in any season. I remember being like, I'm just going to go after this girl. And like, and all of a sudden I'd come back and I'd have a rose on my chest and all of a sudden the guys would be yelling at me literally. And I'm just like, you had a crazy house. I was like, Oh, back and I'd have a rose on my chest and all of a sudden the guys would be yelling at me, literally. And I'm just like –

You had a crazy house. I was like, oh. And again, I have a sharp tongue. I have – I'm very – like when I express my thoughts, sometimes I might not say anything, but everyone knows what I'm thinking. And so I understand that I can, as a strong person, I can rub people the wrong way. And I'm sure there's a lot of that going on there. And so in defense to Vanessa, who also has a strong personality, sometimes those things happen.

That wasn't why I liked her or why I connected with her. No, I think y'all had a natural connection. And I get it. I don't think she wasn't right there. But at the same time, when you are the outsider, I appreciate her point of view of trying to justify. it it sucks to be the outsider I will say that but she wasn't sometimes sometimes people make themselves outsiders there is that and sometimes you're purposely placed that is there is that too yeah yeah I really appreciate you coming on it's so

good to catch up tell Brian I said hello. Brian is so cool. When I called Rachel and asked her to be on this podcast, he was sitting next to her doing work. I haven't really got to know Brian. I met him once. He seems like a great guy. But just hearing your story and your guys' relationship and how he handled things post-show,

you clearly got a great guy. I'm really excited for you guys. It sounds like you guys set a date. I am expecting an invitation at this point. I also will preside over the wedding. That might be a little weird, but I do. I love you guys and thank you for coming on. No, thank you so much for having me.

It's been fun. Yes. Summer 2019. All right. Till next time, guys. Thanks for listening.