The Viall Files - E601 Ask Nick - I’m Dating A Bad Kisser

Episode Date: June 26, 2023

Welcome back to another episode of The Viall Files: Ask Nick Edition! We’re back to answer your burning questions about the world of dating and relationships. Before getting to our callers, we discuss our strong feelings towards Nick’s new haircut. We then read an email from a listener who’s moving in with her boyfriend. She’s currently still paying rent in her old apartment, and wants to know how much is fair to divide the new rent with her boyfriend. Finally, we get our latest Breakup Song of the Week submission.  Our first caller is dating a bad kisser and wants to know if men are teachable and capable of change. Our second caller needs help dealing with her brother’s manipulative and toxic girlfriend so that her family won’t lose him for good. Our final caller is ready to define her situationship after three months in, but isn’t sure how to approach the conversation after a failed first attempt. “It’s like training a dog. Men are pretty similar.”  Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  Join us for our new LIVE show on Thursdays at 9PM ET/6PM PT on Amp, available in the Apple app store and https://www.onamp.com for Android listeners. To Order Nick’s Book Go To: https://www.viallfiles.com  If you would like to get some texting advice on Office Hours send an email to [e-mail] with “Texting Office Hours” in the subject line!  To advertise on the show, contact [e-mail] or visit https://www.advertisecast.com/TheViallFiles  THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Helix Sleep - Go to https://www.HelixSleep.com/VIALL for 20% off all mattress orders AND two free pillows.  Paramount - Paramount Plus. Stream Now.  Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @alison.vandam @liffordthebigreddog @dereklanerussell

what's going on everybody welcome back to another exciting episode of the vile files ask nick edition have to clear my throat yeah I was like, there's something. There's something in there. You know, Emily Hammond. What's going on? We're here with the household of Allie, Amanda, and Derek. Pew, pew, pew, pew, pew. Love that. That was a good one.

The least enthusiastic ever done. What's new? What's going on? Literally, what is new what's going on like literally what is new how is everybody Derek's been silenced great

cut my hair of course you guys saw that last week do you like it yeah yeah no I do I think

well I like your look like I didn't think you needed to like I didn't think you needed to change your signature did you cut it so that it would

grow back out what do you mean like were you afraid if it kept growing it Did you cut it so that it would grow back out? What do you mean? Like, were you afraid if it kept growing, it'd get too long? So the goal of this is to kind of like. There was no goal. Oh. Per se.

Okay. I might be shooting something where I won't be able to like style my hair and I might be wearing like hats and for the sake of like simplicity. Yeah, I will say it is 10 times better than that time that Natalie went out of town and you kind of like went rogue and you just did the sides. Okay, so we hated that. Yeah, this is a lot better.

This one I was like, oh, he got a haircut, but no, I wasn't like, you know how sometimes it's like, oh, they got a haircut. Oh, oh, okay, okay. Like, you know how you need to compute. I didn't feel like- That's what we were risking. Well, I didn't feel like that, Oh. Oh, okay. Okay. Like, you know how you need to compute? I didn't feel like- That's what we were risking.

Well, I didn't feel like that. Yeah. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. How much time passes between you being like, I should get a haircut and like pulling the

trigger, booking an appointment? I just, I cut this myself. Wow. Yeah, he went at it with a- Yeah. It's all Natalie's story. Wow. That's brave.

Have you ever cut your own hair? Well, I mean, it's not really a lot of risk here. I shaved someone's head once. Six clip to size. Or buzzed it, I guess.

Not that short. Do you... It was at Northwestern. It was a freshman. It was in... God, what was the one that all the RTVF people lived in? There was two of them.

Oh, my God. West Fairchild and East Fairchild. I was in West Fairchild. In a common room. And this like British guy just emerged and was like, you want to buzz my head? I was like, sure. And he bent over a trash can and I buzzed his head. So what I'm hearing is you guys don't mind it.

But it's not your favorite look. I don't mind it. I think it has a shot at the title but i don't think it gets the title it's a different look yeah yeah i don't have zero issues solid does it make me look more dangerous no no no if that was your goal how How does it make me look? Like, like a, I don't, like, I think you look younger. Younger? Yeah.

Like younger, more Midwestern boy. Yes. Yeah. But not to an extreme. Okay. It's like,

obviously you still dress the way you dress. It's not like a full rebrand or anything. It's just like a little, yeah. Yeah. A little bit of whimsy.

Yeah. All right. Okay. And if that's not a pitch to get the people on listening audio to youtube get on over here come on you can leave some comments or some shit i'll read them it'll be great i did actually you know something i would like everyone in the room's opinion on is there's this written ask nick and it has to do with kind of like the breakdown of rent moving in with a partner. And I find that stuff so fascinating. And I think it's so,

you know, it's just really charged and money's uncomfortable to talk about. So I wanted to like read this scenario and hear everyone's kind of opinion under with the understanding that we do have semi-limited details, but I think it's enough to kind of paint a picture. So this person was recently offered an opportunity to transfer to where her boyfriend lives for a job. And after talking to him, we both agreed it was a great step in our relationship for me to accept this transfer and move in with him. It's only been a couple weeks of us living together so far. It's going amazing. With that being said, we've had some changes within our living situation since moving in with him a couple weeks ago when i originally moved in with him he had three other

roommates in a three-bedroom one and a half bath apartment a few days ago his they're all sharing one shower yeah that's oh that's gonna be a nasty shower so he had three other roommates in a three. So who's sharing a room? I'm carrying the one and we got a striker. Who's sharing a room? We've got both. Which of these boys are sharing a room? Bunk beds. I really.

There's four guys. Yeah, in a three bedroom. Okay. One shower, two toilets. You know that shower's dusty. How old are these guys? College? Is this college?

That I am not. I do not know the guys in Vegas that bought us drinks not the pool man but the later on guys they lived in a three-bedroom it was like three guys all living together in Chicago and they were in like their 30s which surprised me but I guess some people are just popping off in the roommate department I really I you know I never had a roommate in college like I always lived in my own room what yeah because I like because I'd had a roommate at boarding school when I was there in like Italy and you lit her hair on fire in her sleep they wouldn't let you have one anyway back to these people I'm gonna say they're in their mid-20s are we just guessing yes we're guessing I'm gonna say

we don't know I'm gonna say they're in their mid-20s. So when she first moves in, he had three other roommates, three bedroom, one and a half bath apartment. A few days ago, his roommates told us they're moving out. So it's just going to be him and I in the apartment, which for our relationship will be fantastic. Who's the writer? The girlfriend. So she's a girlfriend who's moving in with her boyfriend because she just got a job offer

before they were like long distance, like they lived a few hours apart. And she's moving in with her boyfriend because she just got a job offer before they were like long distance. Like they lived a few hours apart. And she's moving in with him. And so there's five people living in a three bedroom apartment with one shower. Yes. OK. All right. What in the new girl is this?

What in the new girl? Oh. And so she's like, this is going to be awesome for our relationship. It will be lovely to live alone. Just him and I. On the other hand, that means he's going to go from paying a fourth of the rent with roommates to be paying the entire rent with no roommates. So more backstory on... Is she paying rent?

Here's the backstory. I'm currently locked in a lease with my previous roommate in the city I just moved out of until February of 2024. I told my roommate blank that I would continue paying my part of rent until I could find somebody to take over my part of the lease so she wouldn't have to worry about finding a new place to live. I told my boyfriend before we were moving in together that while I'm still paying rent at my previous apartment, I can't afford to pay rent with him. He was and still is very accepting of this. However, now the roommates are moving out of our current apartment. I feel as a partner, I want to contribute to our financial living situation. Maybe a love style of finance feels welcome in this scenario. So I've reached out to some friends to see if they would be interested in taking over my lease with my previous apartment

I just moved out of. And I have a couple of girls interested, which is great. Also, we're very lucky that my boyfriend makes enough money to pay the entire rent for us while I am continuing to pay rent for my previous apartment. My question is... So why was he living with so many people? So many questions. Bill Gates over here. He's like in a clown car. Literally, he's like, well, I'll just buy four of these cars. My question is, when I am no longer financially responsible for rent at my previous apartment, what is a fair amount for me to offer to pay rent with my boyfriend when he makes 30% more than me? Those are great questions.

I think it's nice of her to accommodate her friend, but I don't think she owes it to her friend. I agree. To pay rent through February of 2024 I absolutely do you sign that lease together you fill it or you pay it no you break the lease no you pay a penalty are you gonna pay that penalty in full yes not the roommate's fault yeah if you're the one that's my choice you pay the penalty I'd say and the penalty I my understanding in most places like some it's like a month and a half of rent, or even if it's two months of rent. Yeah.

And maybe it's three months of rent. She's going to pay rent for 10 months? No, she said she's going to pay rent until she finds someone to fill it. What if she can't? Yeah. See, now that she's made this agreement with her roommate- You're not being reasonable. Listen, she doesn't have to financially do it.

Like the fact that she signed a lease, whatever, there are penalties for breaking a lease. And when you sign a lease, you should understand, listen, life happens, shit happens. We can't predict the future. So if you sign a lease of any lease, you should know what your outs are, right? And all leases have some sort of out.

They cost money and we hate the idea of paying rent for something we're not going to use. But she is thinking about paying rent for 10 months for a place she's not going to live in, which like, God, her roommate, what a dream to have her own place and only have to pay half the rent. That's just not reasonable. Great on her for saying, hey, I'm going to try to do you a solid and find someone to take the spot. But also, she's not incentivizing her friend to do anything about her situation. Right. She's saying, I'm going to pay for this rent if I find someone. And if not, I'm just going to pay

for it. If I'm the friend, I'm going to be like, I hope you don't find anyone. Because either way, I got a place to myself. Why would I want to do that? I don't want to have to get to know a new roommate or live with someone I'm not even comfortable with. Why would I want to do that? I don't want to have to like get to know a new roommate or live with someone. I'm not even comfortable. There's no incentive for their friend to find someone to replace her. Totally. And it's not her responsibility to replace her. No, I'm not saying it is.

But like she doesn't owe the friend anything. She can say, I can't. I'm moving. Some shit happened. So I need to break the lease. If you want to stay here, then you need to find someone. Otherwise, listen, it's on me. This is not your fault for breaking the lease. So I will pay the fine in full. You unfortunately have to find a new place or find a new roommate that

I apologize. I'm sorry I'm inconveniencing your life, but I'm not going to pay 10 months worth of rent. I'll pay the penalty, you know, whatever it is. I guarantee you it's not 10 months of rent. And that's what she should do. And like, she doesn't owe the friend 10 months worth of rent. I wonder if it's like, and granted, I'm sure there's like backstory. But I think to Ali's point, like, I do think especially if you're going into this with like, if this is an existing friendship, like this isn't just like a roommate, like this

is someone who I care about and who I love which i could so they both need to figure it out but like the idea that this girl is moving and moving like making a life choice and that she's solely responsible for everything no i mean listen as as because you're talking about the friendship right right like you we on the same page in terms... So friends make sacrifices for friends. As her friend, her friend, in theory, should be maybe sad to see her friend go, but support her friend on this journey

of moving in with her boyfriend. And as friends, sometimes we take on inconveniences for the sake of the friendship. So they both should be friends in this situation. And as such, they should deal with the situation. Yeah. You know? Yeah.

I feel like it might have been a prudent idea to go into this and say, like, kind of set a time limit of like, hey, like, first of all, offering and being like, it is fully on the table for us to break the lease, me to take on all the financial costs of that like taken care of or like i'm willing to pay rent for up to three months and we'll both hit the ground running looking for a roommate that way like the roommate also has some incentive to like participate in the search well but which happens first so i'm willing to pay rent up to three months and then what happens if you don't break the lease and then are they still solely responsible for whatever the penalty is for breaking the lease? So let's say it's two months worth of rent, that that's the penalty. Well, then now they're paying five months worth of rent.

That completely changes. Yeah. I think maybe it should be kind of an either or. So it would be like, I think if I were in this situation, I would have, I think, like hit the ground running, obviously, like try to fill the lease as soon as possible. But assuming like that that wasn't feasible, being like, hey, do you want me to pay rent for three months or break the lease, pay the penalty? Let's say it was a scenario where the penalty was two months rent. Then I'd be like, if you want, I'll pay rent for like one month. And then after that month, based on how it's looking like prospects wise like if you want i'll pay rent for like one month and then after that month based on how it's looking like prospects wise we can either i'll pay two more months but

then you'll be on the hook for that thereafter or we can put this money towards the breaking the lease fee yeah but there's some variables i don't know i feel strongly in the fact that it is not solely on the responsibility of the person who wrote in. Totally. She's being very accommodating. She's being incredibly accommodating. Too accommodating. Now, back to the question of her boyfriend makes more than her. Right. 30% is a decent amount of money,

but it's not like a huge amount more. I mean, if you're making two, three, four times more, let's say you're making 60K a year and your partner makes 150K a year. Well, you know, that makes a difference. Also, it depends on where you live, right? So like if you're, let's say you meet someone, they're a doctor and they're, you know, they're five years older than you.

They're well into their career. You know, they're, you know, whatever. They're well into their career. Whatever. They're making real money. And let's say you're not. Maybe you're still in school. Maybe you're getting your master's. Or maybe you just don't make as much.

Maybe you're a teacher. And you meet this person. You've been dating for six months. They're like, I want you to move in. Well, they want you to move into their super expensive apartment that you wouldn't otherwise live in. Well, they want you to move into their super expensive apartment that you wouldn't otherwise live in. Then it maybe makes sense for the person who's making more to say, well, listen, I can afford this place on my own. I want to live here regardless. So like, what can you do to help? That's different than being a couple who like finds a place together and making 30% more. That's not nothing, but it's not so substantive that like, is it really worth you only paying 30% less in the relationship thing?

Are you really going to be start like pinching pennies that way? Are you going to like divide everything down? Like, are you really going to be counting numbers and finances at the point where like, because you make 30% less, you should pay 30% less of everything? That just seems exhausting. In this particular situation, one, I think she should set new expectations with the friend. And I'm sorry you already set these other expectations. And I know it might lead to a more different conversation.

But I think you need to, if you are so afraid of having this conversation with your friend, then you need to get better at conflict. Yeah. Whoever wrote it. Because you shouldn't be, you shouldn't have agreed to this. So you can just go back to the friend and say, hey, listen, I can't afford to like, so like. Circumstances have changed.

I've looked into it. The penalty is X. Like I am happy to pay for the full penalty. I'm also happy to look, but like you said, I can only do it for so long, but like here's my budget and whatever and drastically change the expectations.

Hopefully your friend is as accommodating and they should be. Like listen, it's a bummer for them. You are inconveniencing their life, but like that shit happens. That's your 20s. Yeah. Meanwhile, these callers are like 57. They're like in the nursing home. And then as far as this goes, it's a little different because you're moving into his place

and it's a little bit more expensive, but also have the conversation, do you guys really want to stay there? Why do you guys need a three bedroom place with one and a half bathrooms? Yeah, I'm intrigued by that and also yeah like why was this boy just like really close to his roommates having a great time living with them if he could afford to pay four times the amount that he was paying in rent well afford that that's all relative per se you know like yeah and if he can technically afford the full rent but then it means that he can't afford to do date night or go on trips or do anything that they're used to doing. Or just save the amount of money he wants to save.

Yeah. You know, so afford is relative. You know, like he has the money, he can make it work, might be more realistic than afford. So have the conversation. But I think 30% is not such a significant number. I think you should split rent. That's what I think. I think if your partner only makes 30% more than you, I think you should just split the rent. Yeah. I don't think you should get into

a situation where people don't owe it to everyone to say how much they make. And just because they're crushing life doesn't mean they necessarily owe more. I mean, again, if you want to, there's so many grays in this conversation. i just think 30 is not such a large number that you should start like expecting to pay 30 less again if it's substantially more if they're the ones who want you to move into their expensive place that makes sense you know if you're just like listen i can't afford this so like if you want me there i can't i can't be expected to pay what you're paying yeah yeah it seems like they really were like well it will basically be like nothing's changed because i'll just be sleeping and living with you but like you'll still be paying rent like you were

before with your boys and i'll still be paying rent with this other apartment before and so that's why like the boys moving out through such a wrench into things i could see how you would kind of like be like oh it's easy peas, like path of least resistance. Like, you know, he's willing to let her stay with him for free because he knows she's still paying off her apartment. It's good for him that she's like, you know, she kind of took the plunge and moved to be with him.

But it is. But also like if I'm one of the roommates, too, it's just like, you know, and this happens with roommates all the time. You know, two people get a roommate. One person gets a partner. That partner is sleeping over every night, out of the fridge hanging on the comment why aren't they paying fucking rent it's not now it's three people living there instead of two and it's just like wait why are we splitting rent when there's three people living here yeah you know and so they agreed to something i'm guessing without checking with the other roommates

of like she was just gonna move in and not pay rent in a place that's already overcrowded you know yeah so it seems like this couple needs to get better at setting upfront expectations with each other i'm glad it's on their mind yeah and it seems like they're really happy and they have enough like kind of financial padding that it's like not dire and so therefore they're probably able to approach this with like a little bit more like kind of calmness and like their stakes are a bit lower in the sense that like no one's like fuck i can't afford to live exactly and if you can promise your roommate to pay their half of the rent for 10 months without you living there then you can just split rent with your boyfriend true true words to live by or even yeah there's also a solution to if she's like great i have to

pay out this penalty so for the next two months, I can't pay with you. But then once we're done with that, I'll pay half. Then we split it. Definitely. Also, 30% is such a specific number. Oh my God, such a specific number. It makes me think that they both make a lot of money and like work and find, you know, like who knows. Well, okay, let's say, what's 70% of 60K?

60K, it would be around, like 30% would be around 20. 42. 42. I mean, that's like 30% would be around 20. 42. Okay, man, that's definitely a different number. That's for sure. But like, what if he's making like 90 and she's what, making like 60? 60. 63? It's not nothing.

That's for sure. Again, it all matters. He's making $1.2 billion. It just comes down to whoever makes more money, who's driving the decision of where you live? Yeah. Who's driving the decision for how much rent is? And if the person who's making more is driving that decision because they make more, they need to make up the difference.

If you guys agree to find a place on your own that you both can afford, then you should split it. Absolutely. And it seems like they are in a good place and everything will go well. But should things take a horrible turn for the worse don't say it navigate to our breakup song playlist uh this song he'll sing this to his roommates yeah it's the true breakup yeah i'm like i wonder where they went and also i wonder wait where did they go did they i wonder if they moved out because he was like what the fuck Your girlfriend's just living with us now.

Like there's so much there. Thank you for writing in. That was such a rich discussion. So also the person who submitted breakup song of the week said, I have an upbeat breakup song for y'all. It is Sad Song by Parson James. The line they wanted to highlight short and sweet was, and you were no good for me and I was no good for you. They said, this song helped me get over a very toxic relationship many years ago. I feel that in breakups, we have the tendency to want to place all the blame on the other person

and wallow in anger or disappointment towards everything they did to hurt us. However, we don't always reflect on how we were as a partner. Sometimes two people are just oil and water and it's not one's fault or both people's fault. I used to play this song in my car and scream, you are no good for me and I was no good for you. And it was so therapeutic. Our relationship brought out toxic behaviors in both of us and we both needed to wake up and realize that. I am now happily married to the love of my life and we truly bring out the best in each other. I am now happily married to the love of my life and we truly bring out the best in each other.

I'm so grateful for what I learned about myself as a partner and my failed relationship so I can be my best self in this one. Nick, that was borderline sarcastic. That's great. Well, we have a great episode lined up for you today. Don't forget to send in those questions at asknickatthevilefiles.com. For all things Ask Nick, texting office hours, spending the wedding, all of the above. We certainly always appreciate you writing in,

sharing your vulnerable stories. Don't forget that everyone is anonymous, so you don't have to worry about anything like that. We, you know, fake name real age, as we always say to the people who call in. In addition to the update special that we dropped last Friday behind Vile Files Plus, we do have an update special for y'all all, for everyone to listen to on Vile Files Classic this Friday. So be sure to check it out. And again, if you are starving for more of the updates, if you're constantly wondering what happened with them, what's going on, we're giving you guys so many of these updates behind Vile Files Plus. So check out the one available to everyone this Friday. Go back and check out all the ones that you missed in Vile Files Plus if you haven't signed up already. Vile Files Plus is free to sign up.

It's a seven-day free trial, so check it out if you haven't already. We do two update specials every month. We do Better Day to Never episodes every week. Every Friday, we do our Pop Culture Roundup. For all things pop culture, we don't get to on Vaughn Fowl's classic, on Freestyle or Going Deeper. And plus, we have our Vanderpump recap starting from season one around the corner. So check that out or look out for that.

Tomorrow, we are premiering Charity Season. So it should be a fun way to kick that off. We have a wild rest of the week lined up for you, so be excited for that. All right, a fun way to kick that off. We have a wild rest of the week lined up for you. So be excited for that. All right, let's get to our callers. How's it going? It's going good. How are you? Good. What's your name? My name is Chloe. I'm 23 and I am dating a bad kisser and I don't know what to do okay how long you been dating for um we've only been on two dates so it's still pretty early but immediately I noticed so it changed my whole perspective on a scale of one to ten how bad

I would say probably like a five maybe less than a five. I just couldn't get into it. Okay. All right. Three. Describe the kiss to me. So he kissed a couple of times. How's his breath? His breath is good.

He smells really good, actually. Smells real good. Okay. Yeah. All right. But it just like, once you try to progress the kiss into more of like a makeout into something more, it just, it wasn't flowing. It felt like he didn't know what to do or like he was almost being maybe too respectful,

but I tried to deepen the kiss and it just did not happen. So I have found that when people are, are bad kissers, it's one of two things. It's either too much or not enough. And so it sounds like it's not enough on your end. Not enough. Okay. So like just describe it in more detail. Try to give specifics.

He like didn't use enough tongue. I would try to go in with my tongue and he just like wouldn't move. And I tried to do a little lip bite. It's just like he wasn't receptive. I don't know if it was being like too timid or if he was nervous how often did you guys how much did you guys kiss how many times have you guys and every time i just i had to stop because i every time i was like i can't i can't do. I literally don't know how to kiss you. And what is his reaction? He, it seems like he enjoyed it. He kept going in like to kiss me again, but I just, I didn't understand. Okay. Uh, how old is he?

Uh, 25. Gotcha. What do we know about this guy? We have a lot in common conversation really flowed. He is very respectful, like respectful of my boundaries and seems to make an effort to want to hang out, which is great. I feel like he just has all these really good qualities that I've been looking for in a potential partner. You find him attractive? Find him nice? Yeah, I find him attractive. Because two dates isn't much. So you must, everything else must be pretty solid, except there's this kissing problem.

Yes, exactly. And that's my problem. Usually in the past when I've dated bad kissers, it's an immediate, absolutely not. Like kissing is so important to me. Sure. Kissing is a dance like anything else, but it can be, it's a learned behavior. So the big question is how do we address this? Right? Because ideally you'd like to keep hanging out with them. Yes. Ideally. But also, I mean, again, yeah, we've only been on two dates. So I guess the question is, is this more of a sign that it's something is off that we aren't compatible? So I just don't understand how you're like 25 and you've been in relationships and you don't know how to kiss it doesn't know how to kiss like you

like to kiss you know or you know i don't know how do we address it you know we don't want to emasculate the guy like i don't think hey you're a bad kisser isn't gonna go well you kiss him next time and and maybe you just say it feels like we're not on the same page when we kiss okay that's a good i think that's a good line because i think you have to, it feels like we're not on the same page when we kiss. Okay. That's a good, I think that's a good line. Cause I think you have to make it more about the two of you and less about him. You almost have to pretend that you're part of the problem. Okay. I agree.

That was my question of how do I, how do I address it without making him feel like I think he's a bad kisser. You just make it more about like, can I show you how I like to be kissed? Something like that. You know, then it's not about how he kisses. It's just that you want to teach him how you like to be kissed. Everyone likes to be kissed differently. Now, depending on how much of a king he is or how much of a toxic fuck boy he is

like we'll see how open he is to notes right because if you say it in a way that's kind of like flirty and fun to be like can i i i'm i i like to be kissed a certain way can i show you i think that's great and i guess kind of hot you know it's kind of cute i guess the question is what happens if it i mean i guess if it doesn't well if he gets defensive or he says like well i like to kiss this way or i don't need to know how to be kissed or or any type of defensiveness that can be a sign of maybe he's not all that great yeah for sure you know that can be your ick you know because it was like the kiss while an ick wasn't enough of an ick to you know have you say yeah fuck this guy and then you gotta make it like you just have to talk you have to talk to him it's not a reflection

of him it's just like hey everyone kisses differently everyone likes different things you know if you've listened to the show we've often talked a lot recently about people talking about intimacy and sex in foreplay before they get involved in intimacy and sex and foreplay so a couple dates in you know what have you guys talked about what what are the conversations that you've talked about mainly Mainly just like our interests. And we actually went to the same like college town and we both moved to this town. So I just moved here. He moved here a year ago. So he's been giving me some advice and tips and, you know, just the normal stuff. So nothing like sexual. Nothing sexual. Do you just get a vibe? He's, or he's wants to be respectful. Like, can, can you introduce the conversation without turning it completely into sex?

I think so. What if you just like ask him, like what turns you on? Yeah, I definitely get the vibe that he's just trying to be respectful, which is great. We love a respectful King, but there's, there's a time and place for it where sometimes you just want a little bit more like passion. Yeah. Maybe you just like, and it doesn't even have to be the next date. You could put up with some bad kissing for a couple more dates.

I don't know. But whenever you're comfortable, maybe you just say, you know, listen, like something I like to do is just kind of talk openly about intimacy and expectations because not enough people do that. And I'm just curious, what turns you on? And if he gets like juvenile or like weirded out by it or like shocked, your reaction should just be like, why, why, what's the big deal here? You know, not defensiveness. You just be like, no, I just think not enough people like are open to talking about this. I don't think a lot of guys are going to turn down a conversation about like what turns you on. But I'm just saying you just want to you bring up a conversation like this so that it doesn't come out. It doesn't come across as like, let me teach you how to kiss or why are you a bad kisser? You're basically trying to make them feel

like the way they kiss is not on trial here. So you figure out a way to bring up a conversation about intimacy or foreplay or like, you know, like, I really like you. I think you're sexy. And like, what are your thoughts on sex and dating? You know, it's hookup cultures, 2023. Like I, I like talking about it before I engage in it. And I think it's good that we, you know, I like to set up front expectations. And so you get in the conversation around sex and dating, and then you start asking him what he likes, what's he enjoy. And then you wait to see if he asks you what you like or what you enjoy. If he doesn't, you have the right to say, are you going to ask me what I like and what I enjoy? And then you can be like, oh yeah, I mean,

yeah, of course, of course, of course. Yeah. Yeah yeah yeah yeah and they'd be like all right well like i like to be kissed a certain way can i show you yeah and if he says something like would you not like how i kiss you you just say like well it's not oh i just like to be kissed a certain way try to always not say it in a like a a confrontational way and maybe the best response is i just hope it's okay for me to tell you what i like i want a relationship where both people are interested and doing what the other person likes done for them is you know within reason so yeah if he gets a defensive i'm spitballing here i'm working through this in my head but if he gets defensive anything like that we're like oh you don't like the way I kiss. You just be like, has nothing to know.

What do you mean? Everyone's different. I don't want to assume that you're like any guy I ever dated. I, I assume you're specific and I want to meet your needs. What do you like? I have faith that he will be receptive so far. He's very communicative. I feel like he doesn't really i haven't seen any toxic masculinity at least give it time so i think that he will enjoy that as well

and maybe that'll just kickstart our relationship into something more physical and that's a great way to i guess bring up the conversation. Yeah. And just make it seem like you're the weirdo almost. I'm kind of kidding. But the fact that you like to be kissed and says, for all you know, he just kind of dated bad kissers as well. And he learned from a bad kisser. That's what I was thinking. And so when he does something right, it's like training a dog. True.

You know, when you train a dog, you just always have a bunch of treats in your pocket. And anytime they do something that you like, you validate them with a treat. Men are pretty similar. Validate them with a compliment. Like, that's hot. So he does something and you're just like, oh, it's so hot. When he takes a note from you, tell him how hot that is, it's so hot. See, oh, when he takes a note from you, tell him how hot that is. That's so hot. That's so sexy. Oh, that turns me on. Oh my God, you're the sexiest when you do that. So anytime he does something that you like,

that you want him to do, validate him by making him feel like he's the sexiest man alive. And you basically train your boyfriend like you train a dog. Sounds good. Know it. Dead serious. I'm dead serious. Yeah. They're very simple. The men are a lot like dogs. We've often referred to them as dogs when we're criticizing them, but we also love dogs. They're lovable. They're simple. Enthusiastic. They're enthusiastic. Make him feel good about himself and he'll kind of

do anything that you know makes you think that he's a king so it's maybe something as simple as like can i i have a weird like i just i love to be kissed a certain way and i think you're so hot and like can i show you how i love to be kissed? And he'd be like, sure. And then he does it. And then you talk to him and they have a little to do a tutorial that he doesn't get like, it's so fucking hot. Kiss me every way that night time now or something like that. And he should be coachable. I was about to say, um, I don't know, just if I try and teach him and it doesn't work,

that's what I'm, that's what I'm most nervous about. It should work. It just should work. Hopefully. Because kissing is, like, it's a dance, you know? But you have to kind of have notes early on, like a little tongue, a lot of tongue, I don't know. Because it feels like he's being tentative, right?

Yeah. I want to feel how bad you want to kiss me without you ripping out my tongue i don't want you to stick your tongue down my throat because yuck but i want to feel like you really want to kiss me exactly it doesn't feel like he really wants to tells me he does but i'm not getting that bad and maybe it's something like i you can be like i feel like you might be a little shy around me or you could say i feel like you're holding back with me with guys it's this is a fine line between like their willingness to like learn and be you know better lovers and feeling emasculated and then getting defensive and toxic it's all about

communication you know because i think a lot of people like ew like you're a bad kisser and like why do you kiss that way or like that's weird like they're not going to respond favorably but if you do in a way that is like makes him feel like attractive and like i'm so i'm so turned on by you i love the way you smell you smell so fucking good like you so you spend most you know you gas them up a little bit and then you hit him with like critique and he doesn't even think it's a critique because he's already thinking how good he smells or how good you think he looks and this is just all about like hey can you do this thing for me that really turns me on or if you're like at a dinner and maybe this

i don't know if this would be too much for you. But like if you're like, sorry, I just I'm all I'm thinking about is how the second we leave, I want you to press me up against the wall and kiss me like something like that, you know, because then it's like a little more like like wink wink. I want you to press me up against, you know, like I want you to do something here. Like would be another like kind of tactic if you want to have like a bunch of different ways that you could bring it up or like kind of reinforce it differently. For sure. Yeah. Just never say he's a bad kisser. Right. So I just think you just keep giving him notes until he figures it out without ever saying he's a bad kisser. It's just you're just not on the same page. I think that's the core problem.

I've always thought of I was a pretty damn good kisser. But when Natalie and I started dating, we talked about how we like to be kissed. I have given people and I've received notes about like things they like that my exes didn't like. Not everyone likes to be kissed the same way. Not everyone likes to have sex the same way. No one likes foreplay the same way. And so we have to be mindful about that.

So it's not that hard. I think he just needs, he needs someone like you who's who likes him enough to be patient because most people in your shoes would just go, you bad kisser next. And that's what I've done in the past, but I just, I couldn't bring myself to,

to end it. I was, he's just too nice. We had too good of a time. You just make it a you. Just be like, I'm a very specific kisser and I want to be kissed this way

and I think it's so hot and I want to show you how to kiss me the way I love because it just, it turns me on so much. Maybe a little like teasing of, oh, are you shy around me or something like that?

Fine line. Just be careful. That's the most you want to go. You just don't want him to think like that? It's a fine line. Just be careful. That's the most you want to go. You just don't want him to think that you think he's a bad kisser. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and I don't want to make him feel bad. Yeah, this is more about you two just like, you have a thing that you like that you want to show him.

And about us getting on the same page. Yeah. I like a little tongue. I like a little dance in the mouth. I don't know. I don't know what the tongue you know i like a little dance in the mouth i don't know i don't know what the fuck you say but dance in the mouth it should be hot it should be fun i'll do anything if you kiss me like this i don't you know there i have multiple ideas now of how to bring up and sort of try and fix the situation and communicate and just try and get on the same page and i think I think it'll work out.

I have faith that he'll be receptive. I think so too. And I think unless he's just a total dum-dum, he should be able to take a note. Last question is just, where are these kisses happening very specifically? Are they happening indoors, outdoors? Indoors, completely alone,

in either of our apartments. Okay. He just kind of opens, what is this, open the mouth does he give you pecs or what he's just like it's like opening but it's not open enough like i can't even work with the opening that you're giving me just tell me you want you to you want him to dance with your tongue dance with my mouth i don't know that's kind of what it is definitely or like a good kid a good kiss yeah a good kisser a two people who enjoy a good makeout is like there's a a rhythm there's a

yeah there's a rhythm you're in sync you're just kind of dancing with each other's tongues right you're popping it out you're just caressing each each other's lips. It's always like this idea of I can't get enough of you energy without ripping their mouth off. That's the energy I'm missing. Yeah.

All right. Well, let us know. I mean, this is really... I'm not some makeout expert, obviously. And I'm just... This is all about communication. So I'm not like some makeout expert, obviously, and I'm just, this is all about communication. So I'm really curious if this works for you, for other people out there who I'm sure experienced a bad kisser, especially with men. I'm here to please, so to speak.

That's how a guy should, that's the energy I would want him to have. But yeah, I'm curious. I am curious. You can be our exhibitionist of, can it, is it possible? This is the big question. Is it possible to coach up someone on kissing to the way you like to be kissed?

Can you turn this guy into a great kisser? We're going to find out. I'll keep you updated for sure. For us, for the show, for, for, for society in general, I want you to commit to as long as he's respectful and, and, and you enjoy his company. I want you committed to making him a good kisser. I will. I will. I'll try. I'll try my best.

That's why I even wrote in too, because I just, I hadn't heard any of my friends be like, this guy's a bad kisser, but I still want to date him and I don't know what to do. And all my friends were like, yeah, you should just break up with him. Which, honestly, same. But we'll see. Yeah, that's not a solution. I don't think it is either.

Yeah, I want to see if you can make him an amazing kisser. Ethically, I cannot let him go being a bad kisser. I feel like I need to help him. Yes, this ends now and it ends with you you'll find out a lot the first time you try to bring it up you know hopefully he's receptive to it and if he's receptive to it then i think there's huge upside i think so too i'll definitely keep in touch and and let you know i'm happy to lead this experiment for everybody all right here we go I'm excited. I appreciate you calling. I look forward to your follow-up. It will be an ongoing dialogue. Yeah. Take notes. Let us know. I will. Thank you. I appreciate you guys. All right. Take care. Bye. Bye-bye. Bye. For anybody listening in

who has a line that they would say or like a way that they would approach this or who has dealt with this situation in the past of dating a not so good kisser. Like we want to know, please in the comments, like say what you have done. This is a tough one. I mean, I don't, you know, it's not like there's like a black and white, like, oh, yeah, say or do this, you know, because you're dealing with, you know, people's sensitivity and feelings and very delicate. But who taught these people to not use their tongue? I don't know.

Now I'm like, what if I'm a horrible kisser and nobody's ever told me? I guarantee you someone has... I've been not in sync with someone kissing. Yeah. And while I thought they weren't a good kisser, I can't imagine they thought I was great either. Right? If you think you're that's an interesting because if you think you're a bad they're a bad kisser it's like you're you know if they think you're not using enough tongue they think you're using too much maybe i don't know but maybe that's just what they're but who who there's

nothing hot about just opening your mouth and that's called literally mouth to mouth i think i i also think with the too much tongue direction like there is a very clear threshold where i think once it passes that like it is so much tongue and like not to say but only if you like you two are very like yeah upfront expectations yeah because i've i've you know i've had people like i love like a really aggressive tongue make out but when you know it's coming then it's hot especially when you know that they think it's hot because to me so much about like fooling around and making out is this knowing it turns out turns the person on right and it's like it's a back and forth like connection thing

yeah i guess if it's just like listen i just love to open up my mouth and not do anything super turns me on like that might be weird but like it's like pillow, listen, I just love to open up my mouth and not do anything super turns me on. Like that might be weird, but like. It's like pillow princess, but make it a black hole of the mouth. Like what is going on? I mean, I don't think kissing is like the baseline for like feeling connected and kissing, you know, and. Totally. I don't know. But yeah.

Tell us. I'm really curious. I'm really curious if we can turn someone into a good kisser. Yes. And if you have lived this experience. Let us know. Let us know. We're curious.

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any of us. She'll just walk into the house, go straight up to my brother's room, does not say hi to my mom or dad. If we do have family plans, you know, like going out to eat or to the bar to see some live music and she's there, she has a bad mood being around us. She doesn't say thank you to my dad paying for anything. And she's always late to any family plans we do have that my brother would go to with her. And last year when he did graduate college, he didn't have a job right away. He wanted to take some time, you know, to himself after graduating. So when he didn't have a job and this was when they first started dating, he basically was living with her

like right at the beginning of their relationship. So, you know, being at her apartment for like two weeks on end before he would come back home. And, you know, I've listened to you for a bit. And that's kind of like playing house early in a relationship, which cannot be good. And then when he finally did get a job, she told him herself that she was mad about it because now they wouldn't spend as much time together. Which is like, you should be happy he got a job in his major that he's excited about. And, you know, he needs a job. Like, did you hear that from your brother or her? From my brother? Yeah.

I'm not saying you're wrong for feeling the way you're feeling, but nothing I've heard so far is like a holy shit, like she sucks kind of thing. I get what you're saying about, oh, we got a new job, but she could have just simply said, I'm just like bummed I'm not going to see you as much. Yeah. But did she actually expect him not to take the job? You know what I'm saying? Like, I think there's a difference between like being bummed

that he's going to be busy versus actually saying, I don't want you to take this job because I want you to spend more time with me. Yeah, for sure. You know, and it could just be, you know, a slightly immature thing to say or just a slightly needy thing to say. But practically speaking, she doesn't actually think that. Also, you know, the showing up late, she could just, you know, the showing up late, that late that's just well that's inconsiderate but that doesn't necessarily mean she's undateable yeah you know or she also could be just shy and

quiet or more introverted and less personable so she her her personality could easily just be someone who's just more comfortable in a one-on-one environment and just has and feels easily intimidated by the group and things like that. Yeah. So what are some of the more outrageous or egregious things in your mind that she's done that makes you really think that she is being very manipulative and bad for your brother? So, yeah, what I've said so far, I never got involved. I never said anything to that point. Cause like you're saying, you know, that's not really super huge red flags. It could just be who she is, which is, you know, different than me.

So but the point where it got to where I did say one thing already before calling in is that he told me on the phone that she has a therapist, which I also have a therapist. I've been in therapy for the past two years, I'd say. And she has a therapist. And apparently she talks about our family to her therapist. And she's telling my brother, your family's toxic. My therapist says your family's toxic. And to me, I had a problem with that because one, she doesn't know any of us enough. She doesn't say hi to any of us. She's never had a sit down conversation with any of us. So how does she know enough about us to talk to her own therapist about us?

And for a therapist to say, oh, his family's toxic. I can't imagine a good therapist using that word like you to use more constructive feedback or like how to deal with something. And we have been nothing but welcoming to her, you know, since. So I don't really know what her issue is with us. And because of that, now my brother is convinced like the way he was raised was horrible. My parents are horrible. They've disrespected him his whole life. And he's using very negative words about my parents. And he's like threatening to move in with her like in the next couple of weeks, three hours away. So that's kind of gotten to the point where, you know, I'm a little bit concerned because,

you know, every family has issues. You can work through them. I myself like worked through them with my dad and everything but in my personal opinion it was never that bad like we are blessed to have loving parents that care about us and it's just so disheartening to see him feel this way now about my parents and our family in general and see him just like not want to interact with us, you know, anymore. Like we used to be so close. And now the girlfriend, he's a totally new person now. How long have they dated for?

Only like 10 months. And also, my mom kind of did bring that up to him like, hey, like, you've changed a little bit, like since you've been dating her. And he tells her everything, anything that we say to him, he tells her he even if my parents call him, he's on speakerphone with her. So she hears everything, or sees any text, anything that comes from us, he's an open book to her. So when my mom said that, his girlfriend turned it around that your mom's calling you a bad person. You're not a bad person. I'm here for you. So I'm like, why is she switching around what my mom is saying? Like, so just think about when people say you've changed to someone, it's just, I think very triggering for most people because anytime you tell someone

they've changed, there's an implication that they've changed for the worst not for the best yeah and so it's just easy to get very defensive we all change we're constantly exactly changing you know but i just just a note in general like you know i just you have changed no one ever i like in the history of hearing that i think very few people are like really yeah oh Yeah. Oh, let me, you know, there, it's always very, you know,

especially if they have someone on the other end, literally saying, yeah, for the better. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Like, you know,

so it's just a risk to just say you've changed because you definitely, it, it, it pushes people away rather than, you know, brings them closer to you. And that's like the issue we're having because none of us know how to deal with this. I have like not really said much to him.

I just said the whole therapist question was, I mean, a therapist comment was a little manipulative because I said, you know, to my brother, if you want to find out, you know, work through your own things about how you grew up, our family, get your own therapist i am so here for that like that'd be great for you to do but having it come from somebody else who's saying oh a therapist said this he's kind of like just believing whatever she says well i think it's a very fair thing for you to say and i think that's that's what you kind of have to do like these are very difficult situations and i don't have like some like perfect answer for you you know to like go take back to your family and be like this is how we how we defeat her or this is how we win you know it's it's it's tricky because you know when it comes to relationships we want to give our heart and soul and we want to be teammates with that person. We want to have their back. And, you know, when we feel think the most you could say is just simply say like, listen, it really just, at the end of the day, I love you. One, two, I just want what's best for

you. I just want you to be happy. Whatever that is, I'm here to support your happiness. That being said, I'm just sad that for whatever reason, I feel like, you know, our relationship, your relationship with me and your relationship with the rest of the family has kind of waned in the past few months. It also breaks my heart that, you know, your girlfriend is badmouthing our family or, you know, using her therapist to, I think you just, you want to be very careful about attacking her. So I or you know using her therapist to you i think you just you want to be very careful about attacking her oh yeah so i you know it's just like it just it just makes me sad that your girlfriend seems me against the family like you said like you know every family has its ups and downs but we love you and we just want what's best for you and we want you to be happy if that's with her but it doesn't seem right or fair for her to put our family on trial with her therapist yeah exactly

and that's kind of what i mentioned that one time to him and we came up with a plan me and him that okay let's have a sibling day it'll be her me and my other brother. Let's all go to Topgolf or whatever and get to know her more. That's what I offered even after hearing her saying this stuff. And then he went back to her with that down for it. And then after talking to her, he went off on me over text, completely different mood, completely different wording, and basically said, you disrespected my girlfriend. She feels disrespected by you for saying the whole therapist thing is a little manipulative. So now she's like, basically, you know, said, I'm never going to hang out with your sister ever again. I offered,

you know, put out a hand, let's get to know her. And she said no, because I disrespected her by calling her out. I think the best you can do is just point out. It's just like, at the end of the day, I'm willing to accept her. And we're your family. Whether you want us to be in your life or not, I'll always be your sister. Mom will always be your mom. Dad will always be your dad. You only get one family. And we may not always agree, but we'll always love you.

And I hope you feel the same about us. And it's, I'm just concerned that someone in your life is trying to separate you from your family. No one on our side of things has ever claimed to be perfect, but we definitely love you and want you in our lives. And we just want to have a relationship with you. And I'm concerned that she doesn't want you to have a relationship with us. And I just don't know why that's not a red flag. Exactly. That's like all that I'm coming from. And he also never sees his friends anymore either because any free time he has. How old is he? He he's 23 so it's his

first girlfriend i mean listen he might just have to learn the hard way yeah it's his first girlfriend and like i think you just if i were you i would just text him every week i love you even if you're not talking i love you i miss you or every other day just i love you i miss you i hope to see you soon i love you i miss you i hope to see you soon i love you i miss you i hope to see you soon you just really got to kill him with kindness because at some point if she is as bad as you say she is or describe they're going to hit a bump in the road yeah and he needs to know that you're never going to judge him or say i told you so it's just like he needs to know at that point where she becomes the enemy and he's

in conflict with her that he has someone to go and talk to so you got to play the long you got to play the long game here you're not gonna there's nothing you're gonna say in the short term that's gonna magically make him go you're right she's a nightmare i should break up with her yeah he's just it's just not gonna happen he's just in too deep it's his first girlfriend she you know he thinks what he's doing is noble and he's standing up for the woman he loves and it's just it's just one of those things so the best thing you can do is to do your best to not talk shit about her but just point out that his family loves him all we want to do is be a part of your life. Like, it just seems weird that someone is trying to pull you away from us.

Yeah. Like, we love you. We just, you know. Yeah, it just seems she's pulling him away from anybody besides her. And then if he does move, you know, in with her, I don't know if he'll ever come home again. He can always move out. It's just, how old is this person?

Is she older than him? She's younger, I think, like maybe a year younger, so 22. ever come home again he can always move out it's just how old is this person is she older she's younger i think like maybe a year younger so 22 but she's had boyfriends before he hasn't had girlfriends before so and the thing is like i've been in bad relationships before that's why like i got into therapy and my parents though like we've talked about it like they're never worried about me because they always knew I'd figure it out. But with him, he's just so like a people pleaser and very sensitive, caring guy that can easily get walked over. And, you know, this was kind of like our worst case scenario, you know, of like a type of person he would date.

Well, short of him getting her knocked up or pregnant, you you know unfortunately you might just have to let this play out it's frustrating clearly she she wants to control this guy yeah i know that's that's the only thing i've said to him because that's the one i know is like valid to mention i honestly think the best approach is to constantly remind him that you and your family miss him we miss you we love you hope to see you soon we miss you we love you hope to see you soon yeah just keep hitting him with that i wouldn't argue with him about her yeah because she has way too much access to him and you're right like she'll always get the final say. So he needs to wake up. And the thing to do that is to show that consistency that you accept him for all his faults. So right now it's we just we miss you. We love you. Hope to see you soon. And when was the last time he's ever come home without her? when was the last time he's ever come home without her well for the first time ever it was mother's day because he went to visit her so then he came home like slightly earlier than he usually would

but he was still three and a half hours late which made our whole plans for the day change you know which my mom didn't say anything because she just doesn't want to upset him anymore you know what does mom say to him does mom say anything anything about this? No, not anymore. I mean, she used to just say, you know, that he changed, but then that, you know, backfired. And now my parents, like, they don't say anything about her because like, they know it's just going to push him away. And that's why, like me as the older sister, like kind of felt a need to maybe say something. But, you know, I know he needs to learn for himself at the end of the day. It's just tough to see him go through this because I've been in a controlling relationship before and I just see it, you know, what's happening.

So it's tough. Yeah. I think you just have to play the long game and just let it keep letting him know mom misses him. We miss you. I miss you you i'm always here if you need to talk and you're just gonna have to be patient and wait for the opportunity for her to fuck up and chances are she will and then just hope and pray that he doesn't knock her up yeah or propose to her in the meantime yeah he's just he just might be rebelling i don't know and he just has to he's just gonna have to see it for himself yeah and all of his other friends also have girlfriends and he could see like they don't have relationships like what they're doing so i yeah i don't know but he doesn't see his friends anymore either so that's his problem not yours yeah know. It's just tough being the older sister, you know, like I'm the oldest and I always feel

need to protect like my younger brothers. But sometimes you have to learn on your own, you know, like when you said you were in toxic relationships before, I'm sure people were letting you know and telling you, hey, X, Y, or Z. And you found ways to convince yourself that they were wrong or they didn't know what they were talking about yada yada yada and you know i i wish we were all better at learning from other people but unfortunately many of us only learn from our own fuck-ups and until we do we're really good at convincing ourselves that everyone else with more experience

is wrong and we're the exception or that, you know, they don't understand where we're coming from or why their situation's different than ours or why we're special and yada, yada, yada. So then I have one more question because I am going home this weekend and she might be there. So do you think I should still be trying to be like friendly with her? Yeah. Don't give her any, don't give her the ammunition she wants, right? The best move you can have is to just kill him with kindness. It's kind of like keep your enemies close type of thing. What you're waiting for is a time where your brother comes to you because he feels safe enough because it doesn't feel like you're going to judge him and you're going to do that by just accepting him and letting him know

you love him and care about him you just want him to be happy yeah and at some point in the future the hope is shit's going to hit the fan and he's not going to know who to talk to because all his friends kind of like you know he abandoned all his friends and his non-judgmental big sister who just wants him to be happy is there to listen and talk and then when you do you just say hey listen like it just was always concerning that she seemed to want to pull you away from us not bring you closer you know family's family and would you want to pull someone away from their family? Do you really think we're toxic? As I've been in relationship with Natalie for two and a half, three years now or whatever.

She knows stories about my family. I know stories about her family. And if I want to take any specific story and go in to talk to my therapist about like, well, this once happened and Natalie's mom or dad said this. And I just saw that one story and then said, yeah, they're just like that. Yeah. Maybe, maybe my therapist might say like, oh, well, that's sounds pretty toxic. Like, fuck, every family has this, you know, a story of a situation that mom and dad or their brother and sister could have handled the situation differently. The point is, is this like she's, she's trying to pull him away from the family. Yeah. And she doesn't seem close to her family either. And she doesn't have any friends that he even knows. So it's kind of like, yeah, like she wants it just them too. That's, but your, your brother needs to see that. Right. And so now's not the time to point it out. The time to point it out is like when he's when he's questioning her.

You got to wait till he's unsure about her when he's just like, I don't know what's wrong. Yada, yada, yada. She's this. She's that. When he's frustrated with her, that's when you're just like, well, listen, like, you know, we've always like had our questions. We want it. We want you to be happy. So like we supported YouTube because we want to support you because we love you but it always was concerning to us that she seemed to want to isolate you from your friends and your family and that just doesn't seem healthy at all you know

even if we don't agree with everything she does like we always welcomed her yeah so you want to be able to give him examples of all the times that you welcomed her. So you want to be able to give him examples of all the times that you welcomed her and that you wanted to, you know, have both of them in the part of the family, not separate them. But it's tough because I get that you want to just have him see what you see right now. But yeah, it's just, especially that young, we just, we want to have our partners backs. You know, it's us, it's's so it's so easy to go us against the world and you feel like you're being more protective and romantic and yeah you know he just might have to learn the hard way but as long as you keep yourself close to him the better yeah that's

a good plan because so far the only time he's come to me with things was to complain like about her parents because of what his girlfriend put in his head about them so then kind of backfired because like i don't agree of what he's saying about our parents but i would say something to the effect of like listen i it hurts me that you feel that way and you know you we both know that mom and dad aren't perfect but i do know that we've been lucky enough to have their unconditional love. And I do know, and I hope you feel this, that they've always wanted nothing but the best for us.

So imagine how that might hurt mom and dad to hear how you feel. Being a parent is one of the hardest things. I love you, brother, but just consider how that might make mom and dad feel. I just don't agree with you, but you have the right to feel the way you do, you know? But I just know that mom and dad love you. And I know mom and dad just want the best from you. And I know they miss you. It's only coming from a place of love.

And so, you know, right now they don't say anything to you because they're so afraid of losing you. Yeah, exactly. That's literally how it is. My mom is so upset about the whole situation. It makes her very sad because she was an only child. So she doesn't like to see, you know, us siblings not being close or just in general, like her not being close to her children. So, yeah, it's very disheartening to her to see this happening.

You do not want him to feel like he has to fight back or defend her. Yeah. I think your goal in the strategy, again, is making sure your brother feels close with you or safe with you as someone he can confide in whenever he might be ready. That's kind of your goal. So you just letting him know that you love him, you miss him, that you're always there for him and that you kind of accept him however he might come. I think you just kind of continue to relay that message

and just hope that at some point they'll face some conflict and you'll be the person he'll want to talk to yeah you have to let him know how much how how worthy he is how how much he has going for him how attractive he is when you are alone with him just be like man you're just you're so good looking you're so talented you know like that sister that's oh you could have you got to gas him up this relationship he's in these types of relationship i'm if if she's that type of person who tries to separate from his family she's probably nagging she probably belittles him she probably in the meantime makes him feel small at times so like eventually if that is the case eventually that will wear down and you be the person who's always gassing him up who's always making him feel good about himself they'll always let him know that he's capable of everything again

you got to play the long game here in the meantime you're going to be very frustrated it's going to feel like she's winning all the time because she has all the access but you just be there to like swoop in at the right time. This is like a timing thing. It'll happen. Talking shit about her and criticizing her is only going to trigger him and make him want to defend his girlfriend. And that's what's going to push you guys away. So the I told you so or the lecture or the critique comes after he realizes his mistake. Right now now you just have to set yourself up to be there for him when he needs you. I know it kind of sucks, but you kind of

have to do it that way. It's the same thing when your friend's dating someone toxic or whatever. That desire to make a relationship work is so strong that people are so blinded by some of these behaviors yeah well good luck please let us know how this trip goes no keep us posted but yeah i know

probably not a very satisfying solution no it's okay it makes sense because usually i go in like hardball you know but i guess I'll go softly this time and see how that plays out. All right. Keep us posted. Okay. Thank you so much. All right. Good luck. Bye. Bye. Hold on to your kilts, dearies. Peacock original The Traitors is back with a new season of strategy,

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How's it going? Good. How are you? Good. What's your name? My name is Melissa and I'm 30 years old. How can we help, Melissa? I'm in the middle of defining my relationship and I'm not

sure if I'm rushing things and I need help. All right. Tell us about this relationship that you are in the middle of defining. What's your concerns? I'm actually on my way over to his house in an hour to discuss defining the relationship. And I'm not sure if I'm rushing things. We've been seeing each other for three months now. And we just went on this amazing trip together to Mexico for five days. And it went super well. So I was kind of waiting for the like, boyfriend and girlfriend talk. And it just never came. And I feel like almost that I'm giving more than he's giving.

Like, I feel like I'm constantly telling him how much I like him. I'm constantly giving him all of this. Like I've brought up like boyfriend and girlfriend a few times and he's kind of laughed it off. And like- How do you bring it up? Like my coworkers will be like, oh, have you guys been together?

Are you guys boyfriend and girlfriend yet? And I'll be like, oh, I don't know. And then I would tell him like stuff like that. Like, oh, I've been asked if like, you know, we're officially yet. And he'll just like laugh it off. Gotcha. So kind of more passively, you've been bringing it up, not directly. Yeah, kind of. I have brought it up once before. This was a little too soon, though. It was like a month after we started dating. I brought up like being exclusive and he was completely honest with

me. We were at dinner and I brought up like uh are you seeing anybody else because i'm not kind of this conversation and he got a little bit upset about that and he was like upset when you mean upset he got like pretty mad like he was like this isn't a conversation you bring up at dinner i feel like it just ruined the dinner wait what yeah i was like what do you mean like why i can't you know and because he had said he's like i'm gonna be honest with you i've still been communicating with other people because we're so like new but i am not seeing anybody else and i'm not uh like pursuing really anything but there are still communications that are going on from my past that I still have. Let's backtrack a little for a second.

You asked him a very simple question three weeks in, and I'm assuming you were having sex three weeks in, yeah? Yes. Okay, so here are two adult people hanging out on somewhat of a regular basis, enjoying each other's company, being intimate. You are at a dinner with him and you bring up you're just like hey listen i'm not seeing any other people these are my expectations these are my hopes you threw it back on him and he got mad and accused you of ruining the dinner had just to be clear before i really confirmed that i hate him

um did you did your did your mood change did you throw a fit afterwards before he accused you of ruining the dinner would you have been fine with him just calmly saying hey listen it's only been three weeks i'm really enjoying you. I want to be honest with you. I am in communication with people from my past. I guess right now, if I have to give you an answer, you know, or maybe you guys could talk about over dinner. Like, what the fuck does he want to talk about as well? Like, what do you guys talk about? That's what I was thinking. That's what I was like. This is the perfect conversation for dinner. I actually handle it very well, which I'm proud of myself.

I kind of shut down, obviously. It made me a little bit like I want to walk out of this dinner right now. But I kept my cool. So you didn't hate him after that? Because I hated him. So basically, I know. So it was definitely a turnoff yeah it's just like i i don't think it's fair that i am being accused of ruining dinner by asking a very fair question do i need your permission to bring up certain topics at a

certain time and like what are dinners for if not for like us talking about expectations about each other like are you not able to eat and have a real conversation? Or was this like a really expensive meal that he didn't want to disrupt his like, his palate or whatever it was? Like, it's a ridiculous response by him. I agree. I mean, it was definitely a turnoff.

I think the reason why I stuck around after that was because about five minutes after it was awkward silence, he apologized and said that he basically thanked me for how I dealt with it. And he told me that we're on the right track. Did he apologize for his reaction? Yeah, he did. Okay. And what was his apology? I'm just curious. He called himself out for how he reacted. Okay.

Tell me about this trip. What'd you guys do? Where'd you go? So about a few weeks into his dating, he actually was like, this is super random, but would you want to take a trip to me to like Mexico? And I was like, screw it. Why not? Like send it.

So we booked a trip to Playa del Carmen and we spent five days there. It was amazing. Like everything was great. He paid for the whole trip, which was great. I've never had anybody do that for me before. I felt like every day we progressed more and more like with like the way that we were with each other but because text messages last night were really short we were talking about um the show that he told me to watch

an episode of and it was really cutesy relationshipy and i was like i might be rubbing off on you a little bit and his response was ha maybe and i was like i feel like we're close to perfect for each other and his response was ha like i feel stupid for even saying that now yeah no you shouldn't feel so it's it's like listen it's it's uh guys are just more reluctant i think to commit to settle down i think people in general are becoming more and more and more reluctant obviously in the past couple weeks we've like talked more and more about hookup culture. I think it's really important for you, this conversation you're about to go in and talk about this, to be very confident in your position and where you stand and how you feel. You've been

hanging out with this guy for three months. You're taking trips together. You're being intimate. You're talking, what, every day via text? Every single day. He texts me good morning every single day. Texts you every single morning. He is certainly acting like a guy who wants to build an emotional connection and wants to be in a relationship with you. Listen, at the end of the day, no matter what guys say or anyone says, I don't care, guy, girl, it doesn't matter, but it tends to be more from guys. When they say they're not looking for a relationship right now, or I'm just not ready for a relationship, all they're saying is I am

not ready for more expectations. They don't want to basically give you the green light to start expecting more from them, to have the right to hold them accountable for their behavior. And so he's just going to drag it out as long as he can until you put your foot down. And I think the more confident you are in your position, and that position is, listen, we've invested a ton of time with each other. I like you. I think you like me. Here are the reasons why I think we should give this a shot. I think when people, you know, they have this idea that like if they start,

if they agree to be boyfriend and girlfriend, they're like almost agreeing to like a marriage plan, you know? And that's just not true and so but i think little things that maybe you could help yourself out like those little comments like oh maybe we're perfect for each other i think you should just like let go of that shit you know because perfect is a lot to live up to it seems almost silly because you would think that these guys shouldn't be that emotionally fragile that you have to make sure you don't say the word perfect so not to freak them out. But all I'm saying is, if you are dealing with someone who you think is on the fence about committing to you, trying to sell them on why you think you two are good for each other never

works. Once you start negotiating with why you think you guys would be good, you lose kind of that power. It's the confidence. And I say this almost every week. It's the, hey, this is what I want. It's that simple. For sure. We have had the exclusive conversation. We do know that we're the only people we're talking to. We know that we're not on the apps. We know that we're working towards something. So like, do I have a right? Working towards what? The next step. What's the next step in your mind? Boyfriend, girlfriend. Do you think it's that big of a hurdle? No, I don't understand why it hasn't been said. Well, there you go. So like there's, you don't doubt yourself.

You know that after three months of talking to someone every day and taking trips with them, that it is totally reasonable to expect or to want a label. But at the end of the day, what he, he just doesn't want the expectation.

And he's just not going to give that up easily. And he's going to kick and scream, essentially, and make you feel like you're pressuring him or that you're pushing him. And that's just not true. And the more you walk in to this conversation you're about to go in and say, listen, and just kind of, it's like, you're not here to negotiate.

You're not here to have a conversation. You're just here to say, listen, I had such an amazing time with you, but I just know I just I'm not interested in doing this anymore. When you reach that point where we're no longer doing what makes sense, then I start questioning why. And if a label's that hard for you, then maybe you're just not my guy. I think you have to challenge these guys to step up because right now, he thinks he's in a position of power. It's all it comes down to. You just got to flip the power

dynamic. And so when you go into like, can we talk? And what are we? And I think we should date. And here's why. But we went on these trips and I think we're perfect for each other and we're so good together and we have so much fun and you're sitting there trying to sell them on the two of you. He feels like he's in a position of power because you're being pitched. And whenever you're being pitched an idea, you feel like you have the power to say yes or no. So you're not pitching him. You're going in to say, this is why this is no longer serving me. I am putting a lot of energy into this and I'm having a great time doing it. And I want to do more of it because I really enjoy being around you. And I've really enjoyed

getting to know you these past three months. And I'm really looking to get to know you more. But if you are not willing to meet me here, then maybe you're just not my guy. Because my guy would be willing to, at a minimum, want to see where this goes. They would want to call me their girlfriend. We might break up in a week, buddy. I don't know. We don't know each other that well, which is why I want to focus on us. Boyfriend and girlfriend is not the new husband and wife. But again, it really comes down to they don't want expectations. And you have to be willing to make them believe that you are unwilling to give them all the things they enjoy about you. He clearly enjoys you. He clearly likes the ability to text you and talk to you and have you around and spend time with you and take trips with you

and sleep with you. He clearly enjoys all that. So remember that. And if he makes you feel bad about it, you just calmly say, I shouldn't be made to feel bad about this. The emotional reaction he's almost certainly going to give you, don't bend. You got to stand your ground. Yeah. I feel like I've been wasting so much energy on wondering what we are lately

that it's exhausting. And I just feel like I can't really truly show my true feelings towards him because I'm scared that he's going to be like oh that's too much I don't know where he's at like I don't know how he feels because he's not one to be like oh I really like you it's always me like expressing my feelings this morning I was like what's going on like why are you being so short and he was like oh I've just been sick blah blah blah and I'm like okay well clearly there's a conversation we need to have. So maybe let's talk later. And he just immediately called me and he's like, what's going on? And I was like, I just feel like I'm not getting the same emotional needs that in return.

I feel like I'm constantly telling you how much I like you. I feel like I'm constantly showing you that I like you. And obviously you show me too. like I'm constantly like showing you that I like you. And obviously you show me too, but I just feel like I can't really truly be myself and like showing you how I feel because I'm scared you're going to like back up or like think I'm doing too much. And he told me that he's like, I show you that I care about you in ways that you aren't noticing. Like I, you know, I spend all my time with you i text you every morning i do all of these things for you and with you we just went on a trip together i'm wanting more

of the verbal connection i guess that he's not giving me and he's like that for me is harder to give but he said i will work on it yeah and that's all fine and he can work on that. But what you said to start this whole segment, I guess, was you saying, I am just tired of wondering what we are and it's draining me. That's what you say to him. boyfriend and girlfriend, as they often say, and then still have to wonder if he's actually committed to this relationship. To know that at any point he could play the, well, you're not my girlfriend card is draining. And at this point in this relationship, you have the right to say, I don't want to do this anymore. And as far as the other stuff, yes, he can be your boyfriend and work on his words of affirmation. Being expressive with his words is something that doesn't come easily to him. He needs to feel comfortable. He needs to feel safe.

That has none of that has anything to do with whether he can say, you know what? Let's give this a real shot. I want to be your boyfriend. I'd love to call you my girlfriend. I'd love to introduce people to you. We'll see where this goes. This isn't a life contract. There's no

lawyers needed to break up. You don't need to buy me jewelry to cement this. I just want to know that you're committed to seeing where this goes. Because clearly you are with your actions. But if you're not, I respect that. I think we need to stop doing this this language that I've used with my boyfriend that I thought was really helpful was saying like talking about benefit of the doubt like as a way of kind of acknowledging that like maybe there is like he thinks he's not getting enough credit for something and like framing it as like I would love to be able to give you benefit of the doubt like I would love to be in a position where when things it feels like maybe we're on different pages or we're interpreting things differently like I'm defaulting to your way and I'm trusting that you do like me. But in order to give you

benefit of the doubt, like other things need to happen. So potentially like framing it like that. So that way it kind of like speaks to however he may be feeling while also very clearly pointing out why these two things are linked, like in order for his like behavior to get more mileage or to be more appreciated, like there does need to be a different overarching arrangement in place so that way you can contextualize it differently yeah okay so when i go over there because i'm literally gonna go over there after this call what do i just sit him down like how do i begin like how do i start the conversation you're like babe make some dinner because I'm about to ruin it. No,

no. You're just like, hey, how's it going? Listen, I had such a good time with you on your trip. I want to do more of it. I want us to be boyfriend and girlfriend. And before you say anything, I just want to remind you, I'm not asking you to marry me and I'm not asking you to get engaged. I am tired of investing all this energy in us and still having to wonder if we're both fully committed to seeing where this goes. Then you see what he has to say. Don't let him make you feel bad for wanting this. And so no matter what excuse he says, no matter how he reacts, you just, And so no matter what excuse he says, no matter how he reacts, you just, you stay calm and you just say, listen, I'm not here to, I don't want to argue with you about this. And I'm not even really here to like negotiate with you about this. It's really simple. If it's too much for you to want to call you my boyfriend, then maybe you're not my guy. And you put it on him. You question his ability to give you what you want. I think people make the mistake of trying to convince them that you can give him

what he needs to be happy calling you his girlfriend. Instead, you need to question whether he is capable of giving what you need for you to want to call him your boyfriend. And what you need is him to call you boyfriend. But if he can't at this point, then he that's bare minimum. You called in wondering if it was too fast. It's not. It's not. No matter what he says, it's just simply not.

He might not want to. And that is his right to not want to do it. But that doesn't make you crazy for wanting it. And it certainly doesn't mean it's too fast. Yeah. I think that I'm a little bit nervous that he's going to feel rushed into it, and then he's going to agree to it. And then a week goes by by and he's going to be like, why did we do this? Okay. But at some point you have to be willing to see his actions as a reflection of like the type of person you're trying to get into a relationship with. If calling you his girlfriend is so much emotional distress for him that maybe he is incapable of giving you what you want. for him that maybe he is incapable of giving you what you want. Do you really want someone who's so emotionally sensitive and fragile that he can't call you his girlfriend? I've started asking this question to a lot of people, especially women. Do you want someone who you take care of, who takes care of you? Definitely don't want to take care of him.

Your actions say otherwise otherwise your actions have been very much caregiving all his emotional needs making sure he is okay not pushing him too much you know you oh he's fragile he's emotional oh i don't want i want i want i don't want to go too fast because he might back away i might i might rock the boat i might scare him away i might do all this that is not you not you setting an example of how you would like to be taken care of. If he is too fragile to be your boyfriend, then maybe he is just too fragile to be your boyfriend. And in the nicest possible way, that's the message you give him, which is like, do not apologize for knowing what you want at this stage in this relationship,

which is so common right now. It has really nothing to do with how much he likes you. And listen, like at the end of the day, like I'm saying this as someone who my fiance, like I, you know, our situations were slightly different, you know, but whatever, at the end of the day, while I had my reasons, I had justifiable reasons of why I was reluctant to commit to her and be boyfriend and girlfriend. But at the end of the day, at the moment she said, you know what? I don't care. I don't care about why you think it's a risk. All I know is this is what I want. I know I'm right to feel the way I do. And if you don't want it, that's fair. I just don't want to keep doing this anymore. And she was willing to move

on. And at that point, my fears didn't go away. I just realized that the only way I could have her in my life was to meet her at the level that she wanted me to meet her at. None of the risks went away. I just decided that she was worth the risk. And right now, you haven't made him decide whether you're worth the risk or not. It's not about convincing him there are no risks. Because there's always risks. You're two people who have known each other for three months

who want to date. There's so much more you can learn about each other. So there's risks involved. And these guys or these people who go about not wanting to define a relationship because, well, it just takes time, they in their brain are thinking, well, until I know this is a guarantee, I don't want to commit to it. And he's never going to get that. No one's ever going to get that. You're worth the risk and you know you're worth the risk and you need him to choose this relationship knowing that there are still risks. And so until you can change the power dynamic in this relationship, he's not going to come around. And the only way to change the power dynamic is to make him believe that you know your worth and that you are willing to walk away if you don't get what you want. It's that simple. I know. I'm nervous. Don't be nervous. This is the key to getting what

you want. And if he doesn't get what you want, then you have to see him as someone who's not capable of giving you what you want. Yeah, definitely. All right. Well, I think you can do this. Just remind yourself how tired you are of what's going on. You are tired of the status quo. You said that to us. So in reality, you're the one who should have the leverage. Well, I mean, but you have to change it. You have to stop giving them access. I know, I know, I know.

I definitely don't want to be with somebody that doesn't be like, come on, it's been three months and we're doing so great i just don't understand why it hasn't progressed and like if it's not going to progress then why are we still doing this like really though but don't beg don't yeah don't don't try to start convincing them it's just like you know we have a great time you know you love being around me and if you love it that much you're just going to step up or not. But either way, this is ending. I am changing the dynamic of our relationship. And the more he believes you, the more likely he will come around. And I mean this confidently, if he doesn't, he was never going to. Because there is nothing

that's going to happen between now and six months from now or three months from now, that is going to change and have him go, you know what? Now I'm ready to have, you have more expectations of me. No one does that. So it's, it's, this is really on you. You have all the power here and you should be going into this thinking I have literally nothing to lose. I'm either going to get a guy who I know deep down likes me and cares about me to stop like

making excuses and to step up and commit to this relationship. Or I'm going to figure out he's just not the guy who is ever capable of doing that because I'm going to figure out he's just a guy who's just wasting my time because he just wants to have the free sex without expectations and everything else is just a bunch of bullshit and a bunch of excuses about him not being ready and yada yada yada you're not asking for a marriage contract you're just asking for some clarity thank you so much this is so helpful

thanks I'll let you guys know for sure good luck keep us posted alright take care alright bye bye thank you thanks for listening guys again don't forget to check out our update classic this Friday

behind Vile Files classic Vile Files Plus updates are available now and as always behind Vile Files Plus we will see you tomorrow breaking down all things from night one on Charity's premiere of The Bachelorette bye on Charity's premiere of The Bachelorette. Bye.