The Viall Files - E603 Going Deeper with Girls Gotta Eat - Vanderpump, Hookups, and Witches

Episode Date: June 29, 2023

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Going Deeper Edition! Today we are joined by Rayna Greenberg and Ashley Hesseltine from Girls Gotta Eat to talk about their business and friendship. The two talk about crazy hookup stories, semi-nude live shows, and what they would say to Raquel if she was their friend. Then, we are joined by a Texting Office Hours caller who isn’t sure how to save a relationship now that he thinks she’s a witch. She sent him a letter explaining why she wasn’t a witch, but he hasn’t been convinced.  “Everybody’s body is like a different amusement park wonderland.”  Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes. Join us for our new LIVE show on Thursdays at 9PM ET/6PM PT on Amp, available in the Apple app store. Android User? Listen here: https://www.onamp.com/   To Order Nick’s Book Go To: http://www.viallfiles.com    If you would like to get some texting advice on Office Hours send an email to [e-mail] with “Texting Office Hours” in the subject line! To advertise on the show, contact [e-mail] or visit https://www.advertisecast.com/TheViallFiles  THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Paramount Plus - Embrace reality. Paramount Plus. Stream now.  Rocket Money - Stop throwing your money away. Cancel unwanted subscriptions – and manage your expenses the easy way – by going to https://www.RocketMoney.com/VIALL Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall @girlsgottaeatpodcast @rayna.greenberg @ashhess @alison.vandam @liffordthebigreddog @dereklanerussell

what's going on everybody welcome back to another episode of the vile files going deeper edition i'm your host nick joined by the household of Allie, Amanda, and Derek. And boy, do we have a great episode for y'all. The ladies from Girls Gotta Eat are with us. Raina and Ashley, what a delightful pair they are. And we just have a fun, just fun conversation with them about

all things dating, love, relationships. We get a little scandal of it all. What a delightful couple. They're basically a couple. What a delightful couple. Yeah, they are. A duo. A duo what a delightful couple they're basically a couple what a delightful couple yeah they are a duo a duo

I wonder if they're listening do they like to be described as a couple or a duo do you think probably a duo life partners also I think they're a couple

they did say they were life partners that's true I don't know duo whatever anyway a couple housekeeping notes

I think we're just going to keep this intro a little brief because the ladies are so fun just so you know we have uh the bachelorette recap just dropped uh the premiere charity season premiered this past monday i gotta be honest if you guys decided not to watch this season and you thought it was going to be a little boring i've only seen the first two episodes but so far so great uh as i've mentioned already charity is a little more uh sloppy and toxic than i had anticipated and i mean that with the greatest amount of respect and love for charity every time you describe her the words get more and more cutting yeah you started out with messy she might

not have a good picker and then it became she's a terrible picker sloppy we all have she's not sloppy yeah maybe a little bit with her picker yeah anyways listen the point is she's great television so far it's been great television you know it's relatable is the word you're looking for oh whatever you know what charity if you're listening no hard feelings i'm sure people are going you know you know what Nick said to you? Listen, we're here to watch television. We're here to make bad decisions. We're here to watch Charity's journey. And I don't want to watch someone who makes pragmatic and thoughtful and healthy decisions from night one all the way to night nine. It's great in life. It's bad for television. And it turns out that Charity so far is great television. and i just want to say

thank you to charity there's no better great tv on in bachelor world than someone who is attracted to someone that we fucking hate and so far she seems to realize someone we fucking hate and it only seems to get better and i and if you aren't watching you should check it out give it a shot i'm just saying maybe go back and listen to our our recap with the one and only Arden Marine. Very hysterical episode, even if you're not watching. And think to yourself, does this tickle my fancy? I think it might. I think it might.

Anyways, Charity, we love you. Thanks for being a little sloppy. This is episode 603. If you haven't listened to episode 600 with Justin Long, he's back. That was great. It was always great talking with Justin. It's like coming home. It is like coming home. Anything we really need to get into before we get to the ladies? Just make sure to tune in to Better Date Than Never tonight. It's 9 p.m. Eastern, 6 p.m. Pacific on the AMP app. There you go. Also, don't forget,

we have an update special this Friday on Classic. It's for everyone to listen to. You do not have to be a Vile Files Plus subscriber to listen to this week's update special. But if you love these updates and you're starving for more, well, we have great news. We drop two more every month behind Vile Files Plus, and it's a seven-day free trial. So you can sign up. You can check out those updates. And you can quit if you want. But also, there's great additional content in addition to all the great updates that we have.

So check that out now. And anything else I'm missing? I don't think so. Let's get to the ladies from Girls Gotta Eat, Raina and Ashley. Welcome, ladies. Thank you. Raina and Ashley. Welcome, ladies. Thank you. Reina and Ashley. Welcome. So glad to be here.

We're excited. How's your heart? How's our heart? We start every question. Yeah, sorry. It's very LA. Out of the gates. How's your heart, Chakra?

Are you happy? Are you sad? Are you okay? Nick, we both have tattoos of hearts on our left arm. We still have them in common. Does yours have barbed wire? Oh my God. No still have it in common. Does yours have barbed wire? Oh my God. No, it's less murdery.

Is that barbed wire? Did you say, oh my God, like, ugh. Well, no, okay, yeah. If you're going to get a barbed wire tattoo, that one's more acceptable than like an old school, like Pam Anderson. Yeah, I suppose. Yeah, you know, it's fine.

My heart is really good. It was my birthday this week. Happy birthday. Thank you so much and I had a birthday party in New York and LA and I feel just like full of love and gratitude

did you throw both those parties yeah for yourself I did every year I throw my own birthday parties because I know that also sounds judgmental so Ashley plans all of our vacations

because she's like I know what I want to do better than everybody I entertain better than anybody so I want to plan a party amazing thank you happy birthday thank you thank you so much how would you rate this birthday really 10 out anybody. So I want to plan a party. Amazing. Happy birthday. Thank you.

Thank you so much. How would you rate this birthday? Really? 10 out of 10. Am I allowed to ask? Yeah. You had like two East Coast West Coast and East Coast. Which was better? I like the West Coast better. I said it. Because of the friends? Because I hosted it at my house.

I really love the spread. It felt really nice to have everybody in my home. I've never had a house before my whole life I've lived in a one bedroom apartment my whole life well since I left Pittsburgh you know my parents house you're from Pittsburgh yeah I am yeah Steel Town they're both really great I just I really enjoyed

yesterday it's because it's like a Sunday fun day everybody came like relaxed and I had to have food at the house it was really fun bi-coastal birthday yeah i've heard of like bi-coastal living but there's so many people want to celebrate me we have so many friends so yeah that was really fun which birthday did you like better i did like the west coast birthday better like well i don't know so okay okay serena she did her birthday in new york on a boat and this is the third year in a row that she's done this boat birthday.

They're amazing. But I kind of feel like we're still chasing the 2021 high. Yeah. And we did it in 2021. And it was like, right, like June 2021. Everybody had just gotten like vaccinated. And it was like, even that night we went out, it was the first night bars were at full capacity in New York. Like, you felt so alive then from COVID.

And everybody came and the boat was perfect and Raina pulled her tits out. It was like this whole thing. And I just feel like ever since, well, she pulled one out. I pulled out both this year. This year, she could only get one out two years ago. But I think ever since-

Is that like a birthday special for you? Yeah, it has been now. Yes, we've elevated the boat each year and this year, best boat, both boobs. Okay. But I just feel, don't you kind of feel like you have this epic thing at this moment in time and you keep trying to recreate it? And I'm not saying that the last two years have been bad by any stretch.

They've been amazing. But they just, I feel like we almost need to pivot. I'm saying we. I'm ready. We are a partnership. I use we so much with her. It's crazy. She's not even part of some of the stuff I do, I talk about.

That's good. It's like a healthy relationship. You're using those we and us words, you know? We've got a romantic relationship. Well, it's a relationship. She's not even part of some of the stuff I do, I talk about. That's good. It's like a healthy relationship. You're using those we and us words, you know? We're not a romantic relationship. Well, it's a relationship. She's my life partner. Relationships are relationships. Yeah.

Some of our most important ones are just, you know, just without the sex. We agree. We talk about that. I mean, Ashley just, nobody's ever going to know me the way she does. Ever. Forever. Like, I just feel like you know so much more about me than I know about me. Yeah. But then I just. She can be honest with you and you can't be honest with yourself

ashley is a tough love person in a way that like has really helped me over the years definitely what's your two's origin story what's up babe so we we um met in 2017 on an influencer trip. Just like the worst story. What's that the dating equivalent of? Raya. Next good call. Raya. Or no, we met like, you know what it would be? It would be like

we met in Mykonos, you know, something like that. Like our friend in the summer. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, we met on this trip and I had moved to New York like earlier that year in 2017. So we met on this trip and just really hit it off. And I thought she was so funny. We were both single. And after the trip, came back to New York and, you know, we're like, are we going to be real friends? And we kind of started hanging out a little bit. And I had wanted to do a podcast for quite some time before that, but I didn't know I wanted to do it with. I wasn't really into the solo thing. I had this guy we were

going to do it and that kind of fell through. So after a few months of really just being casual friends, like we really were not some sort of best friendship going into this business and life we have since created. But I was just like, would you be interested in doing a podcast? And she said, yes, immediately. And my main question for her was, are you going to be you want to be open about your life, your sex life, all these things like I've never had a problem with that. I've been doing stand up comedy for 10 years. I used to blog my whole life has been on the Internet or, you know, on a stage forever. And she was like, yeah, totally. And you just kind of never know for sure. You know, you're like, are you going to clam up and be like, my dad can hear this? You know, she was just super open and

funny. And we just had a chemistry from the start. So that was like the origin story of our friendship and the podcast. But it's interesting. And I think, I mean, at least it's worked for us. I don't know that it's the best way, but that we started it almost as brand new friends. And you you our listeners have actually heard our kind of friendship evolve over time like we don't know all each other's stories now we do but and then almost made the business kind of come first now our relationship comes first you know but i think it's a little different than like starting a business with your best friend from forever you know you guys ever like get close to any breakups or no we have like pretty healthy

communication i mean ashley has been like really integral and i'm i'm a person that just like i'll marinate and being mad at somebody for so long and i'm like i'm just not gonna say a thing i'm just and ashley has been like let's address this right now we've had some like blowout fights but like at the end of them like we're better for it our friendship better for it like we might be saying we never say a thing that like we can't take back to each other either like i don't think that we've like i don't there's no low blows but like we talk about stuff that like i've always been afraid to like address the friend and i'm always better for it at the end of it i'm always happier and like it's not really about ego it's just like you hurt my feelings doing this and

that or whatever but like it's well we'll go to therapy if something terrible ever has been a couple's therapy we never have like we just we would if we had to but i mean truly there's never been a moment where i was like this could this might be over it's never once crossed my mind and i think we've always had one of the same goals with the business and we do communicate really well and then yeah every once in a while we have to like really hash it out and you know could be a little yelling screaming here and there and then we're like stronger for another like at least half a year you know i wonder if friends have ever gone to like couples therapy well business partners do like i don't know about actual just like two girlfriends but we've talked to other podcast hosts even who have gone really yeah interesting

a few people i can think of who like because it's like there's a business on the line yeah i'm gonna name them right now. Top five. I don't know business partners that are as close as us. Like we're in business together. We are families. Like we travel with each other. Like I go home with her for Christmas.

Like we're just truly really good friends. We have a lot of similar friends. Also same friend groups. We travel with them. It's not easy to be with somebody this much. And like, it just works for us. Well,

you guys are doing amazing things when it comes to the podcast world. So congratulations on, on that. for us. Well, you guys are doing amazing things when it comes to the podcast world. So congratulations on that. I was actually in, Natalie, my fiance and I, we went to Miami. And because we know Miami so well, we stayed at the Fontainebleau. Oh. She left. That's very new Miami. New to Miami.

And if I remember correctly, maybe I'm thinking, but you guys. We had a show there. Yeah. And I was. Were you there when we had posters up and stuff? I saw your poster. Oh my God. And I was remember correctly, maybe I'm thinking, but you guys. We had a show there. Yeah. And I was. Were you there when we like had posters up and stuff? I saw your poster. Oh my God. And I was like, pop off.

I wish we would have been there at the same time. That was a lot of boobs came out of that show. Wild show. That was actually where people started showing their tits. Wait, this is like the audience thing. Yeah. Our live shows are crazy. Wow.

Yeah. Since Miami. I mean, I've seen photos. Lots of tits. You have a huge audience. Yeah. Well, this girl. So i've had two breast productions and this girl email was like i had a breast reduction just like reina and i'm gonna show my tits at the show we're like yeah so we start reading the email and she's not

there and then we're like we're so sorry you guys this girl's gonna show her boobs to everyone and some girl was like i'll do it and then like all of a sudden your titties were coming out all over the place. Like bralette on? Well, here's the thing. Every market's different. So every city is different in terms of like bra on, full titties out. So like we were just in Ohio and Cleveland and Columbus brought a lot of bras. I bet Underwire. Cincinnati just titties out.

And I don't know how I don't know the correlation. Cincinnati is probably the wildest of the three cities. But like, I'm trying to think we did like all our big shows in May. We did D.C., Boston, Philly and Chicago. Yeah. Like huge theater shows, Chicago Theater, you know, the Wang Theater in Boston and stuff. And yeah, they're all a little different where I'm like, there's a lot of nipples out. And then another city will be like, I'm not just seeing bras. Boring. Boo. You know, but it's really funny because we were in. a lot of nipples out and then another city will be like i'm not just seeing bras boring boo you

know but it's really funny because we were in we just it just kind of happens organically and we're like if anyone wants to show their tits like you can just bring them out and but is there like a reason why or is it like titty time you know and then it just happens and we were in chicago and my my brother's there and his wife is with him and And he's like looking at her. He's like, are there tits everywhere? Like, he's like, can I like look around? Like, it's kind of I saw him. He's kind of like trying to look. And then my dad comes to D.C. and the tits come out.

My dad's like, where are they? Binoculars. His hands are out. I'm just kidding. But it was just funny that people don't see it coming. And then they're like, what is happening here? And then every guy that's been dragged there in the room is like, this is fucking awesome. Is this like a free of the nipple campaign?

Sure. Well, we started talking about how I pulled out one boob at my party years ago. We joke about it. And it just like spiraled into this thing. The live shows are like the most fun, wild, just like incredible environment. You just like feel the energy. And so many people play their bachelorettes around at their birthday trips and then slowly a lot of guys started coming with like their their wives their girlfriends and so this is just a nice i'll go babe i'll go now all the

guys listening are like i'm definitely gonna go but so reina got she's had two breast reductions people want to see her tits so that's part of it too and then i pulled mine out in cincinnati for the first time and like oh my gosh, a moment for me. I've never had Taylor Swift at the Ares tour. I was like a standing ovation. I was like, I'm going to do this. You got a standing ovation. No, it was like it was loud, though.

It was like loud and really long. Like it was it was a strong. She's never done it. So people were like very excited. I mean, it's like seeing lightning strike. I was like, she's doing it. And then I didn't know you lightning strike. I was like, she's doing it. And then I didn't know you did it. I was like, I missed it.

And then she did it again. It was amazing. I mean, they're nothing like right home about, but it's fine. Good titties. They're fine, yeah. They're good titties.

My dad was at the Cleveland show, so less titties. I didn't show mine, so I think people weren't that inspired. Yeah, you guys have to do like a whose family's in town kind of inventory.

Yeah. Like I wouldn't have showed my tits when dad was there i can't even imagine yeah so anyway we've we've spiraled anyways what do you want to talk about it is nice to have professionals in the room you know i feel like we can talk about whatever you you ladies talk about relations with dating and sex all the time we do a little bit of that in this show i figured we'd just talk about the most relatable topics out there and just get your all thoughts i don't know you do um do you do a lot of sex stuff on the show i've not heard any but well we do okay we would like to talk about fucking if that's okay we talk about that on our live show better date than never on thursday night 9 p.m eastern for anyone listening oh it's like like very after dark. After dark.

It gets a little on edge. We don't have we don't go into it like let's talk about. But we talk I mean sex comes up all the time. We have a butt stuff episode. Well let's try it. Is there something specifically

about sex that you want to get into? Well we brought you a gift. We own a second company. We have a sex toy company. Where did you bring it? I had to drive back home. That's why I was a few minutes late to get you a present. Thank you so much, Buffalo. But we launched a line of premium sex toys and an app.

All the toys connect to the app. There's remote control. There's erotic audio. There's great videos. And we have flavored blowjob gel also. So this is for you, Natalie. We wanted to bring you a partner toy. Oh, thank you. Yeah. What do we got here? All right. So this is for you, Natalie. We wanted to bring you like a partner toy. Oh, thank you.

Yeah. What do we got here? All right. So this is for you. An unpacking. Unboxing. So I brought you our Gigi toy, which is. Oh, good choice.

Thank you. I was hoping you'd be excited. It has a panty clip. Why do we call it a panty clip? So like a. So it'll go in her panties and you can control it with the app from wherever. We have some history with this. Oh, yeah.

Right. What's the story? Dr. Laura Berman was on my podcast. This is years ago. This is before, I think, your time. No, we remember this story. You were here? Yeah.

Okay. Yep. Not the first time we've heard this story. And she gave us like some... Oh, there we go. Is this the remote control or is this... No, that's the toy. The remote control is on your phone,

so it connects via Bluetooth. And this will go... And there's like underwear? It's BYO underwear. Okay, it fits. Anyways, we tried that. We went out to dinner with our housekeeper and her brother. Nothing gets me going like my housekeeper at dinner with her brother.

Her brother. The housekeeper's brother? You were controlling her vibrator while her brother was at dinner. Her housekeeper's brother? Her housekeeper's brother. Not her brother. Her housekeeper? Our housekeeper.

Cindy. We have a Cindy. Okay. Okay. Got it. How did it go? We haven't used it since okay all right round two well maybe it was the product itself yeah and there's some blow

down there right hit the remote so which can and can you drive on your own could she can she drive yeah oh yeah and you can use it outside i use that as just like a regular small like bullet style vibrator you don't need to clip into your panties okay which one is the press the button yeah and now it's just letting it there we go you can click through it it'll turn up the intensity and then we also brought you a uh flavored blowjob gel so you guys can have extra fun dude pina colada yeah the penis colada it's the what's the one that has like the suction thing that's our most popular one i've heard good reviews it's like like it's like you can't do it every night you know it's like game changing you're like what i can't it's this is gonna set me up for failure in the bedroom right you'd have this like thing so just it's powerful it's kind of crazy it's it's a treat when did you uh get

comfortable with the sex toys is that something you guys have always been into? I actually have really kind of always been into them. I mean, I mean, early 20s, I guess. I don't think I definitely didn't have a sex toy in college. But I think a girlfriend and I went to get some together one night. Maybe I was like, yeah, sometime my early 20s. And then I got really into them. And I would host a sex toy party with all

my girlfriends like around Valentine's Day, like for many, many years, my best friend and I would do this in Atlanta with pure romance, which I think is still around. It was one of those kind of like Tupperware parties of sex toys back in the day. And I just was so in into it. And even then it was like more taboo. And I just never thought of it like that. I just was like sex is something that should be like open on the table. I was brought up on like sex in the city. You know, that was always my MO. So it's been like a passion of mine for a long time.

And then it just seemed like a natural thing for us to create. We wanted to create some other type of business to capitalize on the podcast success and the audience and their loyalty to us. And the boxing is wonderful yeah it's we wanted to make everything feel really nice and premium and yeah yeah so that's your vibe i like that nice little logo thank you i i always use sex toys myself like by myself but like with a partner i didn't start until like much much later that was my question for you both um and it's just i think that sex with the same person gets a little monotonous and i think it's just like a

fun little treat also i know a lot of women that like can't get off without some type of stimulation during penetrative sex so it's a fun like really normal thing to bring into the bedroom i think it's just you put on like a little show at like i think that like the common like what people used to think is like it's gonna emasculate somebody if you bring a toy into the bedroom and we just think it's just a fun addition to a sexual yeah like enhances the sexual experience i couldn't agree more but i have heard out in the wild that at times i i might be the exception but have you ladies in your experience when you try to bring it into the bedroom was it ever met with resistance or is it always i mean i want to be honest i'm not bringing it into the bedroom every time

you know and i i think but if you have when you do i'm trying to think if i've ever no i mean i've definitely had guys be like what what are we doing here you know and you kind of do like explain it but we're also in the in the um process of developing a cock ring which i've always been a super fan of so a guy that I maybe dated so long ago kind of introduced me to that early on. And I felt like that was kind of an early foray into like guys are into this kind of stuff, too. But yeah, I don't I've never had any any real pushback from it. Pushback. I think it's a fun way to put on a show. I think if you're like every time we just like start kissing, we go into penetrative sex and that experience is over. And I think that

people that's why you get bored with sex with the same person it's like we have the same script we do the same menu every single time it's like blow job i get on top he gets on top then we're done and it's a nice way to just mix it up and to be like i'm gonna put on a show for you and i think it's maybe less intimidating to somebody because you're like this is not in place of you this is for you to watch this is like a really fun thing it's not i'm not bringing out a giant dildo to put inside of myself like it's more of like smaller toys like stuff for your like clit like that kind of thing you know i we i had this toy so many years ago we were we have something that we could kind of can compare it to now we're like vibrating finger pads like the guy just wears that you know so we have a kind of a really cool

like finger sleeve that vibrates it's like he kind of wears it it's just extra simulation for you like he's doing something yeah yeah listen guys your fingers they can't vibrate as hard as you need sometimes but it's i i don't i feel like there's this misconception that you're bringing out some giant dildo to be like you can't you know get as deep as this giant thing like that's i don't know i've never i've i've always been pro i guess sex toy in a sense i've never you know it's just like you know batman needed a robin you know why not why not me you know but i have heard that some men have met it with some resistance and i was curious out in the wild for the ladies who are very pro sex toy who are confident like you know

what to do like the hesitation could just be also anxiety about what do i do with this like because they're it's new to them as opposed to not you know what i'm saying like they might be like i don't know what to do with that right you really have to teach somebody yes i have a girlfriend who like can't get off from penetrative sex she's like it's been a problem in my relationships it's a common thing it's a very extremely common thing she was like i cannot get there whatsoever, it's been a problem in my relationships. That's a common thing. It's a very extremely common thing. She was like, I cannot get there whatsoever. And it's been a problem in her relationships and her partners feel like they can't satisfy her. And so she's been bringing this toy into the bedroom. And I think for her, we had this pelvic pain specialist on our show and I had her listen to the episode and I was like,

you might just have like a weak pelvic floor and like figuring out why you're having trouble getting there at all. Like, and then explain that to your partner and they're like great this is just like an added fun thing it's not like i'm bad at sex and can't satisfy you like all of our bodies are just different and like there's different buttons on everybody like some people might love nipple play i don't care if you ever touch my boobs it's not for me i don't give a shit what a mess like what what is the word i'm thinking of like you have these great boobs like what, what a... You could play with them. What a waste. It's not an erogenous zone for me.

Not necessarily a waste. Not a waste. I'm just saying. It would be cool if you could get off from that. From nipple plaque. Yeah. You could look at them, and that's fun for you. But everybody's body is like a different amusement park wonderland.

And, like, every guy doesn't like to get the same blowjob. So, like, every time I have sex, I don't... I'm not the same as every girl, you know? they're gonna look guys like i think they're like different guys like their dick sucked in different ways well okay but i'm doing the same you could do it different ways some people really like you to cut the balls i neglect the balls unless somebody tells me otherwise i'm going with what i do definitely i'm going with my my recipe technique yeah but my ever gotten notes mid-blowjob?

No, I've never gotten a note. I know what I'm doing down there. I give a sick blowjob. I don't give them out a lot. But when I get down there, I go to town. I don't want to half-ass it. So when I make the decision

to travel down, I just go for it. Sure, yeah. Like, the key is enthusiasm. I can't imagine a guy giving notes mid-blowjob. Excuse me me can you it's more positive than corrective notes you know i feel like if they're giving corrective notes

it's like fuck you this just ended but if they're like i feel like they can kind of like if it's positive reinforcement being like oh you can tell they're really into interested in something else and that they would like they want you to escalate your head in that direction yes and i think that like because we do that yes and i go to the left harder faster side to side instead up and down all the things i loved like some people like a finger during oral some people don't like if somebody was like i'm gonna teach you how to do this the way i like it make it sexy make it a group project yeah you're not like giving me feedback like i hate this don't do this you're like you know what i would really like you know this thing i heard on this podcast sounds really

sexy like do that i feel like we had emily morris and she like changed my life and she was like don't mention it after sex yeah reina with her her she used to just give people notes right after sex you said you did that was great but um a couple notes i mean can you imagine can you take your phone out and please start writing this down for me it was fine it. It was fine. It was fine. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. It was a six out of 10.

Yeah. It's like your past. Yeah. Right? I got there eventually, but here's how to get there quicker. You know? I mean, I think you're in a relationship where you feel comfortable with each other. You should absolutely be able to tell.

What we just say, and I would be curious if you agree with this. Guys are basing what they think you want based on the last girl that they knocked it out of the park with. And every woman is so vastly different. So it's no fault of their own. We might hear from a woman like, he's doing this terrible thing that I hate during oral sex or during whatever it is. And it's like, someone liked it. So you're kind of depends i guess on but i'm saying unless you don't unless you tell him yeah that's not what you don't like how is he supposed to know so we when someone is doing something that you think is weird or you don't like it someone probably did at one time so it's all about like figuring out what you're into and there's no harm in like

letting someone know that and then i think at least in my experience guys have been so appreciative of like thank you for telling me what the fuck to do i mean i'm just out here doing what i did to my ex totally yeah you can definitely tell someone's been in a long-term relationship and they just got out of wait why how can you tell very specific because yeah they're just very yes it's very deliberate you know you gotta talk about this stuff like some of my girlfriends love a finger in the butt. It's their favorite thing in the world. You tap the butthole and they are getting there. Me, if you go anywhere near that, I will get up and walk away.

I hate it so much. But the last girl probably liked it and tons of girls before me. But I hate it. So I have to give feedback. What, I'm just going to never get off again? No, I think that's great. You'll let them in. I'll let a lot of things happen, but don't like it.

It's not my favorite thing. What about it? I don't, it's not my- I mean, I'm with you, but I'm just- It's not my zone. It's just- I'm into it. I know you are.

If somebody fucked Ashley and then fucked me, they probably would be like, she loves a finger in the butt. Well, I'm like, you you. How much time in between? You can kind of do whatever you want back there. It's really none of my business. It feels nice. It's like I'm probably not going to reciprocate it. And that's how you smash the paycheck.

You know, I'm just kidding. But I mean, you can eat my asshole all day. I don't I mean, what do I care? It feels nice. It's like go back there and do whatever. I'm just kind of like if a guy wants to take control. I mean, consensually, obviously,

but I'm kind of open to like, whatever you want to try out. I'll take a tongue, but a finger, no. I'll deal with a tongue. You would rather have a tongue. That's your problem.

That's not my problem. I don't care. I'll take, I caught a finger in the butt last summer with the, we were in Greece and I fucked the driver. It was a whole thing. He,

but like, did he ask? Like your Uber driver? Our like driver driver for the week. It was very hot, Mac. You should have seen it. I mean, it was a whole thing. Did he ask? Uber driver? Our driver driver for the week. It was very hot, Nick. You should have seen it. I mean, it was like a fantasy. It was just like the hottest guy on the island.

Was your driver. Was the driver. What do you mean the driver? You reserved a driver? So we hired a driver for the week. There's one driver in Greece. A driver. Sorry.

Not one driver in Greece. When we booked this trip last year, we did Mykonos. And it it was like there's not a lot of ubers in the island and so you know here's the airbnb we booked they were like here's the driving service we use and we had like a main guy and he would usually come pick us up and he wasn't like on call waiting all day but he would pick us up when we needed rides we all split the cost of it whatever and if he couldn't come he would like send another guy so this particular day he sent this new guy and he was late and he was, he was like kind of fucking up our schedule.

He was so late and he called me and he was like, I'm looking for you. And I was like, I'm looking for you. And then he hung up on me and I was like, kind of turned on. He was like, we get in the car and I'm like, Oh, that guy's so sexy. I hate this. I'm flirting so hard with this guy and then I find out that his like jujitsu teacher is I was flirting she went hard

you were competing I was out I was like he's hot but I'm annoyed yeah I was like he is a man but I'm gonna try but then he mentioned that this other guy he's friends with also works in Mykonos and he was like a bouncer somewhere which is very much my style yeah I was really into hearing about the bouncer at this club.

So I'm like sitting in the back. I wasn't, I just had an attitude about me. Like just that he was late. We'd already gotten a fight on the phone, you know. So Rayna's flirting with him so hard. What? I was flirting with him about his friend though. I wasn't trying to like fuck this guy and actually like usurp me.

Like we don't go after the same guys. But you were, yeah, you just thought he was like sexy. He was very sexy. Tattooed head to toe. So he's, Rayna's just chatting with him now, just being like, we don't go after the same guys. But you were. Yeah. You just thought he was like sexy. Tattooed head to toe. So he's just chatting with him now, just being friendly, trying to mine information about the friend. And he's like, Ashley, what's going on with you back there? He just hones it on me. And he was like, what's your sign?

I was like, what the fuck? Well, that's a fuck boy question or like a boy who's trying to fuck at least. Of course. Yeah. And so I was like, I'm a cancer. He was like, well, I'm a Scorpio. You know what they say about Scorpios and Cancers I was like what I bet he says that for every sign

they possibly say no matter what their sign is he's like you know what they say I'm a Scorpio I'll wrap it up I barely got in the house he was already like what's happening to me like oh you're so sexy I'm gonna come over later and give you a massage I'm like okay whatever and I meet up with him later

that night he offered a move yeah meet up with him later that night he offered him that was his move yeah so i we meet up later that night he comes all of us have to stay at the club and take which i really wanted to go home but ashley needed the house everyone wanted to stay out besides yeah we're at this bar called scorpios which so it's a theme night and he comes and picks me up in the van just me i sat up front up front. I was like, this is so awkward. Just sit up front in a 16 passenger van. It was a van? He picked like the van. That was our driver.

The driver van. He's the driver of Greenhouse. Like knowing that you're going there just to get laid. I just like to say it was a Benz, but it was like a Mercedes conversion van, whatever. So we do, we end up hooking up. It was like so hot. Like the whole thing. The sex was good?

I mean, it was unreal. I felt like he was kind of choking me out at one point but i was like it's okay you know like i'm you know it's just he does jiu-jitsu and everything was very hot finger in the butt and i just kind of like let him do whatever and then he left and it was fine it was like a very much a one-night stand but i was like saying like i hadn't heard from him like the next thing she's like yeah what'd you think that's not what this was she was like what do you think ashley that's yeah of course the drivers fuck the tourist i was like what wait did but is this was this

mid-vacation yeah there was we still had a few nights left like i would have gone in for it again but he was very like keep driving you at least no then we got the other guy we never saw him again yeah he was on to the next he got what he wanted yeah but our interaction was so funny because of course no i wasn't thinking this was like my lover but i was kind of like i would hug this guy again i'm here a couple more nights of rain i was like yeah no i mean that's not what this was and i was like no totally right i get it she really like put it in perspective that like yeah he had a mission that day it was to fuck you because he thought you had a bad attitude and it weirdly turned him on and then he got what he

wanted and he's out and i was like she's right that's the only person though i will say it's okay and acceptable that they don't at least text you the next day and be like that was fun and i appreciate that it was amazing i got so many jokes out of it totally and that's just it is what it is i still don't actually ever think it's acceptable for somebody to not at least even if they never want to see you again. That was fun. Thanks for a fun night. Yes. I think, you know, it takes one second to send a nice text message and not have somebody hate you or feel bad about themselves forever. I'm like very opposed to somebody not just sending like the five seconds. I think men are like, if I send her a text message, she's going to think I want to date her and it's like no this was the exact

same thing for me too it was just sex totally yeah and it's totally fine i mean but it was like the most quintessential like hookup summer you know did you get laid in the bouncer no no you don't remember no i didn't i was i was trying to like remember what happened no definitely did not have sex maybe i made out with a lot of people at the beginning of that trip randomly. Three in the evening. Oh, that was crazy. Yeah. In London.

Yeah, you really did start hot. I see. Yeah. And then it just went downhill from there. I know you mentioned that you don't tend to have the same type in men. Not at all. How would you, if you were to navigate a situation where you were both interested in the same guy, or if there's just like

other groups of people of like female friends who are heterosexual and have found themselves like both attracted to the same guy like what is your philosophy on dibs and like communication between friends when it comes to like the funny shared interests i mean it's never happened to me that i can remember that like i was really into somebody that another friend was did I have a situation like this I mean I I did and it like we were on this trip and this like a few girls and this guy came it was like a friend of one of the girls and she was seeing somebody she wasn't interested in and me and the other friend both were like kind of flirty with him and I kind of was into him but he just was more into her you know and it was a little weird I mean her and I had to talk about it like if I would have I don't know

that I thought that I had dibs I guess I just maybe thought we had more of a connection and I guess I misread the situation and so we got back from this vacation and he like asked her out and she went out with him and it definitely stung but i'm like who am i to begrudge her going out with this guy clearly was not in love with him and maybe they could be a match and it was just kind of you know i think it's like you just have to be mature about it but i think there's also worlds in which there's friends that are always calling dibs always going after guys you'd like i mean luckily we don't really we've one sort of friend of a friend like that but now she's found someone and she's married now so she's not doing that guys do that more than

women yeah but i always do i find it really frustrating if like you're talking to a group of guys and you can tell one of them is being very obvious about like wanting to being interested in something more it depends on the friend it's we all have friends that are like you're like i i can't wing woman with her i can't go out like i have a friend who became single and her and i went out and it was like she would right like literally like box me out of men and i'd be like i'm here too i'm also single this is so rude and it was a pattern it was every time and i was like you don't even like these people you just want to win did she have a tendency of like every time you'd go to a bar look around and be like there's no one here let's leave and go to another bar she would walk in and say i'm gonna try every single guy basically

she's a little pick me yeah she's pick me it's like a yes i just would think any guy we talked to she would just be like really into it and like box me out of who we were talking to and i'd be like hi i'm here also and that stuff bothers me because it doesn't feel like the situation you were in where this girl was honest and up front with. I was like, I like this guy. This was just like, if you get attention, I don't get that attention. And I don't like that. Did you ever address it with her? Because I feel like that would really like that would like fundamentally change the way I see this person and like our friendship. But like, how do you bring it up? It's so tender. And I mean, I think that like also it's it's it's uncomfortable. You have to get a little comfortable being

uncomfortable. It just is going to be what it it is it's not these conversations are not easy they're not fun essentially you're saying something about another person's character that you know I think that you can frame it you don't have to say things like I think you're a pick me girl and I think you box me out of every conference but like I had to be like that situation last night was really bothersome you don't even seem to notice that I left and that like i completely removed myself from this like and you just continue to talk to you about these guys it didn't even occur to you that this bothered me and then it is a little uncomfortable for a little while it's not you're not going to go back to being best friends tomorrow you know maybe that person's going through something they need a lot of validation

yeah you can come back together and be fine but it's just gonna be a little awkward for some time i mean you can also just decide what type of interactions and that you have with your friends. You know, if there's a friend that you want to keep as a friend and she's just the worst pick me to go out with, then just do solo dinners with her or like some figure out how you can manage the friendship if it's like actually a huge problem. I mean, there was a girl like that. Like I said, she's she's married now, so she's not on these streets doing that. But it was like, she just had to get the attention. She just had to win and kind of be competitive. And I was like, I can't, this is not for me. Do you think pick me is more of a personality trait or a phase?

That's an interesting question. I think you could, I think you can grow out of anything or you could be that forever. But I feel like some people can like, you know, like phase wise, maybe they just went through a bad breakup and they're in a funk. The next thing you know, they're just, they become pick me's rather than they are pick me's. Absolutely. And guys can be like that too.

You know, it probably happens. I'm guessing both with men and women, when they put so much of their self-worth in just having a partner, just having someone, especially if the relationship ended, like, not on their terms. And so they just, like, they can't handle being alone or being single. So they just don't even realize their energy they're putting out there because it's just like, I need to have someone. I think it's really good insight. And that is kind of what happened here. And I think people, yeah, you can grow out of it. I think that like you need that type of validation and attention right now. And you can find either a partner that is a really secure relationship or you can find

interest in hobbies to find other validation through. But yeah, I've seen people just grow up and grow out of it. And then sometimes you have those friends. You're like, I'm just not going to if I'm going to go out and look for guys tonight, that's not the person I'm going with. You just repurpose that friend. I think you grow out of so much of that stuff i think like being a little boy crazy a little girl crazy is a little bit of a phase you know some people of course are like that for their whole lives and sometimes people get put in their place and just or get they they're able to reflect a little bit what do you think is the best way to get them out of it if they're acting like that yeah i feel like you just stop hanging out with them.

Well, I mean. Phase them out. Forever? No, not forever. Until the end of the phase. No, you're just. I'll tell you. I've done this.

I mean, in a kind, loving way. Do they receive it well at first, though? Yeah. They do? I just had a friend that kept putting guys first very flippantly. Just kind of like, we'd have plans. And if this guy came along, she'd bail on the plans. And I think she wanted a partner so badly that she felt like it took

precedence. But I was like, your friends are really important over some guy that may or may not work out. Like I remember one time I was trying to make a plan with her to get drinks. And she was like, well, I might have a date. I'm like, first of all, this is actually a terrible way to go about the world. Like you're waiting around to see if this guy from Hinge reaches out, you know, like a bunch better way to be would be to like live your life, make plans and fit in the guy when you can instead of waiting around and giving off like desperate energy. But whatever. Canceling specific plans with friends in the hopes that.

Yeah. For some guy who's keeping you on retainer. That happens a lot. I talked about it and she she definitely took the note. I think sometimes you need a close friend to tell you how it looks from the outside. You're so in it. You're just so desperate for relationship or whatever it is that you're feeling that you can't actually see how your actions may be perceived or how you could be hurting one of your friends. And I think it made it was changed.

Well, she's also somebody that's receptive to feedback and I don't feel scared to give her feedback. And I think that's how you can judge the friendship is after I have this conversation with the person, does the behavior change? Because if you form it, if you if you form the sentences as like this hurts my feelings and I care about you, I want to have a good relationship with you, but you're doing this stuff that's like making it impossible for me to enjoy being friends with you. That person should at least say to themselves, like, I love this person and I've hurt them and that matters to me i don't have to like validate how like i yes you can validate how you feel but like i don't have to tell them they're irrational constantly like i hurt you and that feels bad and i don't want to do that is like what the response should be she

was really receptive to the feedback have you ever had to break up with a friend yeah definitely over there's definitely people i've grown apart from. Growing apart is kind of natural. Like fully like don't talk to me anymore. Or it's just like, yeah, there's an abrupt like, hey, we can't be friends. Yeah, I had this girl like in my late 20s that it was just it was already a relationship. I just defended all the time. Like people just had a problem with her constantly. And I was always just like, but not me.

It's great. She's so good to me. And the toxicity just became like too much. And she just did like back to back things. And I just had to be like, here's I just this can't be a part of my life. Is it to you or other people involved? The things involved me. And it was just so much toxicity and lying also. And I was like, here's a bunch of stuff. And it's just like never going to fly with me. And she was like, you're a bitch. And I was like, if that's all you have on me, I have all this on you. We are okay. Need a break from reality? Life got you down. Well, cheer up, Buttercup, because Paramount Plus

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rocketmoney.com slash V-I-A-L-L. If either of you are friends with Raquel. Oh, thank God. Thank you so much for bringing this up. I mean, well. What would you do? If she did that to me? No, no, not to you.

Oh, God. I'm like, if I'm friends with Raquel, I have so many questions. Shoot. I'm Raquel. Okay. Let's role play. Ashley.

And I feel like maybe for added incentive like family friends have been in each other's lives for a really long time so this is not just like a newer friend like this is someone who you are like motivated more so we used to do pageants together yeah like you have a big share in history we used to do pageants together we both got aged out i'm trying to get and we cried about it i'm trying to get to the root of if you were so manipulated into like believing what you were doing was like okay or that it was being accepted like our the whole brain i hate to speak on this even before rain has because she's the main fan i'm only just new to the culture but i read something somewhere that bragg held like maybe it's she just thought what she was doing was like justified because of what she'd been told about the relationship with Ariana.

But then on the other side, it's like she's not that dumb and you shouldn't give her that much credit. She is really that dumb. You think she's that dumb? No, she's not that dumb. She's pretty dumb. She's so dumb. Does everyone know that the Pope drinks rosé on the balcony? Ashley, you got it.

She might be just dumb enough to convince herself that it's true but deep down she knows that's a person that places the validation of men above literally everything else so that's the primary thing if that was my she said some things that are very interesting to me that sort of minimize the grandiosity of really what happened here she said it was a mistake i got caught up in moment. She says things like she picked up the wrong brand of soap at the grocery store. Like you were living this double life for so long. And I think that people have affairs

and they cheat with their friends. They cheat with their friends, significant other. She didn't murder anybody. But to live this life and to be lying to everybody and there's such a web with like James Kennedy and he's friends with Tom Sandoval. And it's like you have just created such a terrible situation with all these people. Like, was it worth it? Well, I think there's like this spectrum of like she was this lost soul that's been totally manipulated by this complete, you know, sociopathic narcissist, pathological liar,

whatever it is. Do you think he's all those things? Huh? Do you really think he's all those things? I just threw out a bunch of terms. I think he's probably some of them. And then there's like another, the end of the spectrum that she's this insane manipulator as well. And the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle. Like it doesn't have to be one or the other. I think there's, was definitely some manipulation involved, but she's not completely blind to what she was doing. Wasn't there, didn't one of the first nights

after they hooked up, she brought flowers over to the house? You have to know this is insane behavior. As for him, I really think he's really slimy. Sly, yeah. I think they're just selfish,

self-centered, and weak. Ashley and I feel like people throw the term narcissist and sociopath around a lot, but one of the main characteristics of narcissism is a total inability to take responsibility for your own actions. He is the king of I'm sorry, but, and that is a narcissistic tendency. That is true. I mean, I couldn't agree with you. I don't want to overuse those terms, just to be clear.

Yeah, I don't either. But I'm so against it that like then to the point where like no one is because everyone is yes but if someone was same with gaslighting yes thank you oh my god well the internet one you know it's like fine you know like apparently now gaslighting is just saying i disagree right you know like sometimes people aren't narcissistic pathological liars they're just an asshole's an asshole. They're self-centered or they're going through a very self-centered stage of their life. They're like in a rut. We were talking about this earlier. I have a friend who's dating someone who it just sounds

like he's going, he's in a rut and I've been in a rut before. And then I think about my other guy friends who have been in a rut. And I think about when you're in a rut and you don't know, you're not confident in yourself and you're just like, not sure what you're supposed to do, especially with your career. And you see all your friends having a little success, or maybe it's success with like, you know, women, if you're a guy or, you know, vice versa in dating, you become this self-centered, just insufferable person to be around. And, and you don't see, that's the worst part is you can't see it because you're just such a victim in your own mind of like, nothing's working out for you and,

you know, like this. And then, you know, you're always want to talk about your problems around your friends and you just become this insufferable, like just piece of, of crap.

And then it's just easier to justify your decisions because you're always the victim in your head just because life's just hard for you. And so like, that's the thing, like when you're in a rut, you know, when you're down on yourself, it's just,

it's very easy to become self-centered. It doesn't necessarily make you a Narcissist it just maybe you know, you're kind of in or not, you know, we all have narcissism in our inner Yeah, but I mean I said this on our show when it when you see an insane Cheating affair type situation. Yes You could be a complete narcissist or you have really like you said convinced yourself that you were so victimized that you're justified in doing whatever the fuck and i mean i think you do see it with men who have had problems with their partner their wife or whatever it may be and haven't been able to articulate them or work through them or talk to

talk to anyone about it so they've just been in this victim mode for so long that they can feel like they can do whatever. It's totally the wrong way of thinking. Sometimes it could just be a self-destructive. Sometimes people like use sex as an outlet in a very unhealthy way because they have a negative history with sex. But you guys know more than me. I mean, just based on the history of him and the show, he just seems like a bad person. He doesn't seem great. I don't get bad person from her, necessarily.

When he got stopped by the T-shirt, did you see that one? I've seen everything. Which one? The T-shirt, his response to the T-shirt. Also, wait, what was the word he kept using incorrectly? It made me laugh so hard. I was like, he said, like like it's the unenthusiastic he kept saying unenthusiasm the unenthusi i kept saying it i was like but that's what i didn't

it's just like so it you did like tom it's like tom no i read it right you called her fucking lazy yeah basically right nobody misinterpreted yeah no one understood like you and that's why we think you're an asshole because you called her fucking lazy here's a person who's like trying to connect with you emotionally and and is in a committed relationship and then finally you know even though despite not feeling connected and feeling seen by you decides to have sex with you god forbid they had their t-shirt on and on national television you called her fucking lazy and then he like doesn't understand that's what he said and says no no no that's not what i meant i just mean she's fucking lazy i know he was like she was unenthusiastic it's like that's that's what you just said yeah we know we get it you know this

because you've been on reality tv i i think that like i say this all the time like the reward center in your brain is totally like warped versus like day to day people because he's getting rewarded for this type of behavior. On some level, he's gotten so much more famous. They all have. And I don't want to do reality television. I just you know, you see people that are on reality TV and they'll say to you like, I'm not like that, but I got paid to be like that. So that's fun. I get I get paid to fight with people. I don't want to write like you. You watch and I know she's kind of walked some of the behavior back, but you watch the woman like Lala and we like her. We've podcasted with her.

We're like, this level of like screaming and insult hurling and standing up and acting completely unhinged. It feels like someone really said, go so hard. Don't let up. Like you'll come out on top if you just go as hard as you possibly can. Like, so it's, yes, you're being rewarded for like insane behavior. That's not a hot take for you. You've been in the biz, but it's like, it's not real life. And I just, it's probably a lot of why you see. Some more than others though. But I think with some of

the Vanderpump cast, it is like that where I don't think they know the difference between filming the show and reality. Yes. Well, you said something on your show that I thought was really interesting. You were talking about like what he would have to do to like make a comeback. And you were saying that he has to like really apologize and mean it. He has to understand what was wrong about what he did.

He doesn't know when he says, I'm sorry, he has no idea what he's saying I'm sorry for you know he's saying I'm sorry to like shut up like he's like saying please be quiet please he's like saying I'm sorry I know cheating's wrong right allegedly maybe this is more of a question for you like you've been really into it and invested and so like you're stuck in an elevator with Tom Sandoval like what do you how would you approach it I think I feel so negatively about this person that I like can't even pause. I would just avoid them. I don't even find like, I don't think it sounds fun to me to talk to this guy like Raquel. I could at least like do an interview with or be on a show with her. And I think it also speaks to your previous question. Like what was if this was

your friend, how would you approach it? It would depend on their response to the situation. Raquel doesn't seem that sorry. The videos of her just laughing is like really insane and sick and horrible to watch. Which one? Well, specifically when they get off stage at the reunion and Tom and her are in the dressing room

and they're just laughing and they have just been like annihilated. Did you watch the extended clip? So the extended clip actually cut out quite a bit. That makes total sense. Absolutely. We should have thought of that.

It was more than I anticipated. I was actually surprised that they like cut out quite a bit that makes total sense and so after that it was more than i anticipated i was actually surprised that they like cut out because they they there's like meat on the bone so to speak when they left that room she she sat down and she got emotional and was like i don't want to be this person i don't want to be like this yes yada yada yada and it it came across as authentic so if i was friends with a person and they her and they said to me i am so humiliated by my actions i cannot fucking believe i did this at least there's a glimmer of hope in the friendship where i could be like okay there's some very deep-seated guilt and i i see a world in which you go get help. I don't see that in him. I agree.

But yes, Raina and I, we know better. We should have known that there was editing there, that they didn't get off of that stage and immediately be like, that was so crazy, you know, and like start laughing and yucking it up. Could you be her friend? Like, what would you say to her?

Her friend or his friend? Her friend. I think there's more hope for her than him, for sure. Yeah. That's how I feel. I feel like she's redeemable. Enough.

A little bit, maybe. Yeah. I definitely think she was manipulated a little bit. I don't, not to the point where you can let her off the hook or somehow.

And I think she, like, her origin story with her childhood, I am shocked that that's not a bigger story than it is. That was like really traumatic. Yeah. She was like given away by her biological mother and raised by her grandparents. By her aunt.

By her aunt. Either way, it's so fucked up. I mean, talk about a situation where you're just like guarantee that person's going to be a validation nightmare, you know, where there's like how, and then you put them in pageants because that will be so great for her self esteem and self confidence. Yeah. So like her feeling of validation monster, like,

you know, like sister also, the mom kept the sister. What? See, this is, and this actually matters. And I would invite anyone who says it doesn't like,

this should be part of the story. We are anybody who has a traumatic upbringing. There's a difference between excuse and an explanation. And people often don't want to hear explanations because people will like, well, that's not an excuse. It's not to do with an excuse. It's just like, how do we understand why people make the decisions that they do? There is a reason why Tom did what he did. I don't know what it is.

I don't know what his origin story is i don't know at what point in like the you know the timeline of tom sandoval's life where he like someone fucked him up he felt like he could never be alone and so he in every single relationship made sure the replacement was already picked out and that there was actually overlap in a training period between the two so that way there would never be a moment of like self-sufficiency and like not having a partner but i'm not i don't know what happened to him something happened to him that has caused him to uh basically when push comes to shove like dismiss people's feelings in lieu of his own you know that's that's the thing because like he thinks of himself as an

amazing friend definitely yeah because in most cases he probably is right he's probably very loyal he will lie for his boys he'll have their boys he'll always and he's a cheerleader he's probably always there to rally the troops and bring every kumbaya everyone together because in all those situations no one's stepping on his toes you know but when he's emotionally like stuck like all bets are off you know but i but I just want to know that's, that's what I want to get to the bottom of with him. It's like, why do you,

and then no matter how he answers that question, I'm like, no, you still haven't answered my question. Like, how, why do you think you did what you did? You know,

what's, what, what, what, why are you broken? But at some point, like if I'm Ariana, I'm like,

I don't care. And we read this quote on the podcast and it really resonates with me. And they said, this person, I forgot who said it, who you are is not your podcast and it really resonates with me. And they said this person, I forgot who said it, who you are is not your fault, but it is your responsibility. I love that. And I feel like if I'm dating that person or friends of that person,

I'm like, I have empathy for your trauma. I have real empathy for what Raquel went through as a child, but you don't then use that as a reason to do unthinkable things to the people that you should, that you can love you should try to go to therapy and figure out what i know everybody doesn't have access to therapy but it can't always be my problem the trauma that you went through yeah tom and i don't know enough you

know i haven't i don't i haven't watched till the reunion but um i know a lot i've had spent hours with people giving me like all of the the rundown over the past decade but you were saying that he like prizes up on being this good friend. I bet he's the kind of guy that like when he does some first friends, he's like, I'm such a good friend. Like he gets some batteries. Huh? Letting get some batteries.

I don't know. No, you're doing great. Like, I think he like is almost. No, you're right. I don't know what I'm talking about. But you are. You know, people are doing stuff to look good. It's actually not genuine. So they can sit back and be like, I'm such a good friend. I don't know what I'm talking about. No, you are. You know how people are doing stuff to look good. Oh, yes.

It's actually not genuine. So they can sit back and be like, I'm such a good friend. Every time he does a favor for someone, he accounts for it. Okay. He score keeps. He doesn't give freely, as my therapist would say. Genuinely. It's always as like, oh, you owe me a favor now.

Yeah. There is a scene years ago where he's screaming at Jax on the screen. And he's like, I am such a good fucking friend to all of you. And he's like, he really hypes what a good friend he is. He's got to let everybody know. And it's like, he did these things

and that's nice, but he's going to let you know that you need to pay him back at some point. Right. So they're actually not genuine. I just want to, like, you know how like Tom

at the reunion, and oh, this was part of, oh yeah, an uncut footage. I gotta go home and watch this. Yeah. So like Lisa has a chat with Tom and she's just basically saying,

you gotta like take accountability you gotta follow your sword you gotta apologize i know all these people fucking hate you right now but like life goes on time heals all wounds and just like take your beating basically right and he's just like i'm not a fucking like serial killer you know and he was like showing emotion because it's like but i almost kind of felt pity for him in that moment because the way they were talking to him obviously calling him a psycho and a narcissist and things like that he's just like i haven't killed he was like thinking literally like but i haven't killed someone as if he didn't understand that like what he did to ariana is incredibly painful and hurtful and

and the scars it could you know it can give someone the level of distrust and of you know abandonment and like just stabbing someone in the you know and lala called him a liability at the reunion you know it's just like you're you're fucking dangerous to be around and i couldn't agree more with lala in the sense that like in the context of what i that's what i want to know with tom it's just like okay you don't think you think lala's nuts and you think you know this and that and you don't think you're dangerous but like convince me how it's safe for someone so for another woman to to date you to trust you to unconditionally give themselves to you and say i trust you with you know going out out with the boys why should you have a history of doing this? He will sell you on the circumstances.

He'll say, she didn't have sex with me and I was worried she was going to kill herself. And with Kristen too, like she acted so crazy. I think he will sell you on the circumstances. Yeah, but then you say, well, hey, listen, it happens in every relationship. So are you saying that to date you, that person can't ever have a bad day

or a bad week or a bad month? That person can't feel down or not feel sexy? They can't be in a rut and get out of it? Is that the only guarantee? I mean, I think he's yeah i don't like they're it's it's not he's not redeemable and that and and to be a trusted partner in my eyes ever sorry i mean it's i'm not a once a cheater always a cheater but this love i think you always are gonna do this if i found out you i don't think you're gonna be rewired you know by a new partner if i found out you and i are such like a peak level of friendship but if i found out that every day for seven months you lied to me you went behind my back with the other person in my life that meant the most to me in the world i don't know how i would ever it's

not even true i don't know how i would ever recover yeah. I don't know how I would ever recover. Yeah. Like, I don't know how she's ever going to trust another person again. No, she can. I hope so. And I hope she just says this is such a specific situation and no one would ever do this again. But it would fuck me up for a while. Do we know his parents? Did they cheat? I mean, a lot of this stuff has been so when you see someone cheat so brazenly, you can

usually find the cheating in the again, not an excuse. I'm just out of curiosity. You can look back and like Ariana should be able to see all the signs that she chose to ignore. I think her friend picker has been off. I do. You know, when you say, well, they haven't done that to me. And you say that a lot, like you need to reevaluate your friend picker because people don't treat you. You're not that special.

No one is. No one's that special that they treat everyone else shady like a piece of shit. And they're somehow going to treat you differently. They're not. You're just having. Your time will come. Or you're looking the other way because you don't want to believe that that can happen. She does ride for people so hard.

And I think with you and me, it would be particularly painful because you're not that kind of person. I would be I would be like, I can't believe I misjudged this person's character with Ariana. She rides for all these people that no one else really likes. Well, and that's we've we said this. We had a falling out with somebody so many years ago, and this person had had falling out with everybody before that. And we just kind of knew our time would come. You like it wasn't yeah we didn't think we were so special that it would never happen but we were like ah that this person's really fun to be around and for now you know kind of keeping them at an arm's length and sure enough you know it's a real pattern and so i think that's something everyone should understand like it really is the quote like you're not that special

yeah like the pattern will eventually well i also don't think people i think especially in today's world uh when people choose friends i don't think i don't think they consider character i don't even think they think about i think they might tell them like they would say it's one of those things where you know everyone on reality tv or in real life in real life if i asked every if ask anyone, do you think you're loyal? Everyone says yes. 100% across the board. No one says I'm not loyal. Okay.

But a lot of people, there's spectrums of loyalty, even though everyone considers them very loyal. I don't ever lead with that. If I were to ask you, do you think you're loyal? But like- What are you going to say now? Well, I don't think I'm disloyal, but what does it mean? Well, exactly.

But I'm simply saying people will describe themselves as certain things yeah i don't know that loyalty is the peak character that i'm looking for in a no i agree but i'm saying it's almost like unconditional love i'm like that's not a thing when people pick friends i'm just saying i don't think a lot of times in today's world they're thinking do i do i like their character what do i think they stand for? I think I, I know, but I don't,

I don't know. I don't know. I'm going to take your word for it, but I think a lot of people don't. I think a lot of people think, uh, are they fun? Uh,

are they a cool hang? Uh, do they make me feel good about myself? What will they do for me? Will they keep my secrets? You know, are they loyal to me? And I don't think any of those things have anything to do with people's character.

And yet so many people will select friends. And if I'm being honest, I think that's what Ariana has a history of doing. I think I definitely agree. Some people certainly don't. That's all I do is like assess someone's character. I think it's like I'm constantly thinking of like the way they treat other people, their relationships they have in their life. Like, I don't know. What's your character?

So as someone who prioritizes that, like how what are your kind of character red flags? So like what's your what's your like your friend picker or relationship picker when it comes to, you know, thinking about someone's character? One of them is if they've had friends for a long time. I mean, do you have friends from I mean, whatever life you you're a certain age. You know, it's been so long since you've been in high school, but still I friends from high school, you know, what are your friends from every time of your life, like high school, college, your 20s, your 30s, you know, or do you always have a story of friend breakups here and there? have going on in their life. I think that's probably my number one. I think that there's certainly types of friends that are really fun and you sit back and you realize that all they did was kind of talk about themselves the whole time and actually not actually really want to hear from you. And they were just using you as a sounding board to tell their fun, crazy stories and, you know, hear your or your feedback on on them. I mean, I'm trying to think of I could

probably do this forever, but I think that's my number one. Well, we like met each other. I was like, does she have a lot of friends? You know what? She's close to their family. She's a lot of longtime friends. I look for how you describe situations in which you were, quote unquote, wronged. Friends that get fired from jobs a lot and then they tell you it's never their fault. It's always a situation where it's somebody else's fault. That is a huge red flag. All my exes were crazy, but for work. That's the man that tells you all my exes were crazy, I'm like, what did you do? You make them all crazy. We had somebody tell us all their exes were narcissists, all three of us. And we were like, all of them. You just

you're just finding these terrible people. They're all horrible to you. You did nothing. So I'm just looking at patterns in your life. And I can't take responsibility for relationships ending, jobs ending. Big red flag for me. Right. Well, there's also different friends for different things, right? You know, I have friends that I just like to party with. I have friends I like to travel with. I have friends that, like, if I'm just having a bad day, I want to call them. I pick me up at the hospital friends, you know?

I got to do that this week. Yeah, you do. Let me talk to you about that. I have friends that, like, I have two best friends. Ashley Ashley this one other girl and they both give me very different advice and I really like that because I have one friend that really Ashley tends to commiserate with me more like she feels really protective of me and her and I can just like go back and forth I have another friend that's just like let's diffuse it let's let it go and I I'm not trying to hear that sometimes I'm looking for like an ally but both of those things

are great and like just different friends for different types of feedback and advice you know I just I wouldn't necessarily go to everybody for everything and I think Raina always we say this with people you might want to date to and friends is you do what you say you're going to do it's like the top

top you know everybody gets a pass sometimes you got shit going on your life you can't make it you need to bail on plans. But like somebody that really is, you cannot count on over promise under the liver. What's the point? You know, and I, I, I know we're all wired differently and both of us, you know, have a friend or two that is flaky and, you know, they may or may not show and they're a value add when they do. They're so fun. You let them be around, but really with partners too, it's's so important is and that was what we really were vetting each other as we started to consider starting a business together was I think we were that

was the number one thing we were both, you know, secretly looking for in the other person and making sure they had it. I've had to repurpose friends where I've gotten more information and I'm like, I'm not trying to fuck with this and they can just become like a little less important in your life. Huh? What is it? I promoted them to promote them to a fan.

Promote them to a listener of the podcast. Right. They're just in the DMs. Well, I worked for Danny Meyer and we would fire people. We would say we're promoting them to a guest. Like they're guests of the restaurant now they don't work here so i think that you just get sometimes somebody's going through something or you're like oh i don't really this is it's always somebody it's always something with you and i just this is not an energy i can have in my life have you done that with people where you're like i thought this was gonna be a little different and

now i need to change the terms of this friendship friendship yeah i'll just phase them out you phase them out you're a phaser outer yeah yeah well yeah i mean because i have like lifelong friends but like you know that's been more like la because like la is a city full of professional friends okay you know people who like they're kind of star fuckers and they you know they're the friends who will like pick you up at an airport they'll do anything they'll they're they're like they're free assistants and they position themselves as friends okay you've never you don't see this i don't feel like i don't have one of them yet i want to have more of them airport pickup friends people at my birthday party offered to pick me up at the hospital and i was like we're not close enough for you to be offering that's like that's what

you're saying yeah they they like they love reality TV stars. They love any star. So they, they, they, they smell blood by like, it's, they, they will find kind of new celebrities ish, right? Who like are kind of fish out of water in LA. They don't know what they're doing. Is this happening to us? No. They have no shame. They'll like come up to you and they're very aggressive people.

Very, and they can be very charming and they're, and they'll do aggressive people, and they can be very charming, and they'll do you a favor. They're always there to do you a favor. This is so fascinating. Yeah, there's a lot of them. How do you sniff it out? The favor. Teach us.

Is the favor the first? Yeah, but do I first deprecate the favor? Well, you just have to observe. Is that person really a ride-or-die friend, or is there a power dynamic shift in their friendship? They'll also call themselves like managers or producers or things like that because they like to bring them a brand deal or some shit like that.

At the end of the day, they're just like free assistants. I mean, I'll take it. They're all over LA. Even last night at Reina's birthday, people were like, you guys have so many friends here. And it's like, we kind of already had some friends here that we just followed some friends from New York and well,

my best friend, my other best friend from Atlanta, but that moved here. And then we keep finding other people from New York. So we really have just sniffed out only New York people like us that have like moved here. So I'm trying to think if I've encountered this, you wouldn't know it if you, yeah, you would know we're not famous enough. Yeah. I was going to say, I don't think I'm famous enough. Maybe nobody wants to do that. It's not something you really want, to be honest. The airport pickup. You can't trust those people.

I'll take an airport pickup. The airport pickup, yeah. It can be nice, but nothing's free in this world. It's important to remember that. It comes with a cost. Yes, 100%. I say I'm glad that we moved to LA. I'm glad I spent my early 20s all my 20s and my early

30s in New York and then I moved to LA because I think when you're so young and you move to LA it's just harder to sniff that out like I'm just I'm not at an age where anybody's gonna use me for anything I can see you from a mile away I'm not gonna give you anything that I don't feel like giving like I've been through this before yeah I'm not that scared of getting like quote unquote used by somebody and then be like, what just happened? Cause like, you're not going to get anything from me that I don't feel like giving you

willingly. Yeah. I, I do want to validate people. We have a lot of like younger listeners. I feel like they're watching us thrive here really quickly. And it's like, we've kind of been building friendships for a really long time and,

you know, have we travel over, we have friends everywhere, but I, I feel like it would, I think this city in your 20s would be tough to move here. You really have to have boundaries out here.

Is it time for texting office hours? Indeed it is. Is this headphones on? This is headphones on time, ladies. And then we'll come back and I have a couple more questions and a debate I need you guys to solve for us. Hold on to your kilts, de peacock original the traitors is back with a new season of strategy betrayal sabotage and murder this killer season features an all-new celebrity cast that vulture hailed as reality royalty living in a scottish castle

for the ultimate murder mystery competition we're talking fierce competitors reality stars and public figures battling it out for a whopping cash prize. This season's cutthroat missions are next level, just like whatever Alan Cumming pulls out of his brilliantly eccentric wardrobe. One thing is for sure, these 21 players will do anything to avoid a plot in Alan's graveyard. Find out why critics and audiences alike are raving about the Emmy award-winning series The New York Times is calling it a murder mystery with clothes to die for, Find out why critics and audiences alike are raving about the Emmy award-winning series.

The New York Times is calling it a murder mystery with clothes to die for, and Vox adding that it should be your new reality TV obsession. We are certainly obsessed. Stream every episode of Traders Now only on Peacock. Ladies and gentlemen. What are you doing? What do you mean? Just keep it simple.

I'm making the promo. Just keep it simple. Just say, hey, we the brav bros two guys that talk about bravo ladies and gentlemen boys and girls we're the brav bro no oh dude stop with the voice just keep it simple i've seen promos on tv dude this is how you get the fans engaged this is how you get listeners we're trying to get listeners here if we just say oh we're two dudes that talk about Bravo, people are gonna get tired of it already. We need some oomph. All right, then fine. Let's try to do it with your voice. Bravo, bros. Good job. How's it going?

Hey, I'm Gretchen. I'm 29 and a guy I was seeing thinks that I am a literal witch. Okay. Just to confirm, are you? I am not okay great uh why does he think you're a rich why does he think you are a witch we had a conversation that i thought was a light-hearted conversation okay where i have been like making earrings lately and i mentioned wanting to sell them at the local witch's market, which is like a coffee shop bar that does the witches market. It's like, they'll sell crystals and candles and shit like that. And I mentioned it.

And he was like, is this when you tell me you're a witch? And because I thought it was a lighthearted conversation, I said, no, I'm not a witch, but I wouldn't tell you if I was one. True. You know, I love her and uh yeah and so i kept like

trying to i said i'm just gothic and happened to be into some witchy things and he said what kind of witchy things and i said pointy hats and broomsticks you know then every other thing i said i did say like i've made a spell jar with my friends once. And I made one for my dad for Father's Day last year. And yeah, he didn't take it so well. He continued to have the conversation with me in like a joking way. And then he like withdrew for the next couple of days. And I will also say that the last time I saw him, so this conversation was over text. The last time that I saw him, um, as he was leaving, I was like, I have a crush on you, but I wasn't, I said it in like a joking way, but I meant it

like I do have a crush on him, but I said it like I was annoyed by it um and so then a few days after that witch conversation he um wanted to have a phone call and was like i was kind of freaked out that you um told me you have a crush on me and also the like witch magic stuff really freaks me out okay yeah describe this guy he is really receptive and he's really easy to talk to and i feel like incredibly comfortable around him what about him is receptive um to everything but witchcraft yes yeah except for you pretty much yeah so was he a friend before is that this like how to uh because he didn't know i met him on tinder okay and when we first met we just went on a couple of like trail walks um so i think we went on like three and it was like really easy it wasn't it didn't seem romantic

and i kind of thought he would be like more of a friend type person. But now you don't. Now you want a romantic relationship with him. Yes. Okay. I think you're so funny and cool. And I just don't know if this guy's like you're just I'm like, I just don't like his that he got spooked. By your hocus pocus. And also, like, you're just kind of witchy. Like, that's kind of dope.

pocus and also like you're just kind of witchy like that's kind of dope so i guess that he has had multiple interactions with people who identify as witches people who are into magic i live in texas okay okay what i've been to a few parties in L.A. where some people have gotten together and earnestly call themselves witches. Is this a bad thing these days? It's like I identify as witchy. Well, here's my question for you. I love witchcraft. Actually, I actually is a witch. People think I'm a witch.

She predicts stuff all the time. My question for you is, do you feel like he is leaning on this as like an easy out? do you feel like he is leaning on this as like an easy out? Because maybe he it's hard to say, like, you know, I like you as a friend, but maybe not a romantic partner. I'm really not sure. Like, like, when it happened, I was very confused because I've like never been accused of something like that before. I don't know. Like, I can't tell if it's a cop out or not, because he he told me a little bit. I mean, he didn't give me any details, but he basically said that he's encountered multiple people who were that way and that bad things started happening in his life. OK, and that it's like a blanket like no for him. Like he just wants to stay away from it entirely. Well, that was my question for Nick. I was just

curious if you when she was telling the story, if your immediate reaction was, you know, just to say it harshly, like this is a, he's just not that into you situation. And that's his excuse because I don't think so. Actually. Okay. You think it's, he's just scared. He's scared. It just seems like such a very specific thing to, right. It just would also be really unfair.

Cause if this is something that you're kind of into, it's not, he also, you, the way you described it is, is, is, is like, he was kind of like, you know, communicating. It's like, hey, this is on my mind, you know, as if you were supposed to do something with information. Which is, I guess my question is, like, after he brought it up, like, what was your response? I'm assuming it's, well, fear not, I am not a witch, you know, kind of thing. Fear not. Do you feel like you were kind of messing with this guy? Like, you were trying to fuck with him and you're like, am a witch look at things and he just doesn't really have like a good sense of humor about it yeah he does no i don't think so right like what's um because i was

joking around about it and i when i mentioned like making spell jars before and i said like i'm not trying to put spells on people like if i want to put spells on anybody i want to put them on myself um and like to be happy and shit like that um and he was like so you're a good witch and i sent him a gif of uh glinda the good witch so i yeah i'm i don't know what do you know much about his past relationships specifically like do you know if he had some bad breakups um no i don't really okay i mean isn't that the only thing she can really do here is put it on the line and be like listen i really enjoyed the time we spent getting to know each other i'm i'm into you romantically and i can't stress enough i'm not a real witch but i'm into some of this shit and if that's super like a deal breaker

for you i understand but like right like this is not the only thing to do here you don't you went on a few dates with this guy right yes friendly walks yeah well we went on walks and then it got romantic have you guys hooked up oh okay hooked up yes what i mean i feel like no i'm no i didn't know i i didn't think that sorry i thought they were just kind of trying to get on the front end. She said that it turned romantic. Sorry. So we did like the little hikes and then there was one night that we were going

to exchange back rubs. So obviously I sucked his dick. You are awesome. I love this girl. A few more. I don't think he's on your level. Yeah, I don't think. I don't know. I feel like i fully agree with ashley you could put it on the line i did this recently with somebody and i felt better for it no matter what the outcome is and it kind of sounds like this guy doesn't really

have a good sense of humor about it or maybe he's not going to believe you but this feels like an uphill battle with this person even if they decide like that you're worthy of dating and maybe you're not a witch. Like, like, are you is this like the one for you? Like, I'm in love with this guy, man. I have been I'm like so smitten ever since he came over for a back rub. We stayed up until like 4 a.m. talking. And I haven't like done that since I was in middle school. And that was my first boyfriend. At what point did the back rub happen since I was in middle school. And that was my first ever boyfriend.

At what point did the back rub happen? It was pretty right away. Really? Well, that is something. What do you mean? Well, Nick, what do you think? I don't know what to say here. I really want, if you're the guy. Just on that data point alone, we've had callers even recently.

And I'm sure maybe you ladies can speak to this men are fairly useless uh post nut nut okay yeah and and here is a here is a guy who who nutted who a delightful boat he actually didn't oh okay okay which was unfortunate and i tried did he yeah but that that kind of takes away my you know can you not love him like if i was a witch yeah oh my god i would have abracadabra your semen into my mouth i might have to use that um yeah i he said he doesn't come from blowjobs usually. It was like a fucking hour. So did he kind of pull back after the hookup? No, we were like texting every day after the hookup

and then had another and then had a third. But no hangouts. But I'm saying like, oh, that's true. I didn't know if it was like he got what he wanted. I guess he actually didn't. I don't know. But no hangouts after that? Like after it turned sexual, did you keep hanging out or was this purely text attention based?

We hung out in person a few times after the first hookup. And did you hook up every time you saw each other post the first hookup? Yes. How did I guess I'm really curious, like how did when he kind of like when you realized he was serious about his concerns about witchcraft? Not like how did it make you feel like? Did you feel defensive, more confused? Totally confused. Yeah, I can't. I like I couldn't wrap my brain around it.

And I was trying to think of anything I could compare it to. And I couldn't. Yeah, I just don't't i don't understand it but i'm also like those are his experiences they were traumatic so i'm not gonna like discount that in any way i just want to understand it and i can't and so i'm like frustrated about that yeah i just really want some more information on on these past experiences same you know i'm caring i do too you know because it's like oh someone said they were a witch and like weird things well what do you mean weird things happen i agree with uh

um ashley and reyna in the sense that like you don't know a ton about this guy you've hung out with him yeah you hooked up but at the end of the day he does he comes across at least to us is fairly tightly wound and you come across as more of a free spirit and even when he asked you about it you you joked right you you didn't get all like oh of course not you didn't get like immediately defensive you're like of course i am like you you were light-hearted about it you describe yourself as you know gothic and things like that you are into you know what more traditionalists might call unique things and like do you really i feel like this guy might take away your shine so to speak you know in terms of like even if he it's just such a weird thing for him to be so earnest about and so concerned that even if he were to be like okay i guess i'll i'll see where

it goes are you gonna be like how are you gonna you're i feel like you're gonna have to you're gonna be self-conscious about how you act around him is to not give him witch vibes which is bizarre in itself so that's kind of one of the reasons that i like him so much is because i have like pretty bad anxiety and it's really hard for me to be comfortable around people um especially especially like a romantic kind of person and so but i feel like i can totally be myself when i'm around him and even even still, I mean, I did. I did also write him a letter that I sent him, if you would like to hear it. It is a front and back, but I write kind of big. Do you want to give us the gist?

Can you also give us the timeline? So you you were you got on a couple of dates to turn sexual. You brought up the witch thing and then he said, I'm out on this. And how long has it been? Gosh, I don't even know how long it's been since. I want to say it's been like two months since we started hanging out and like like doing the trails and stuff, maybe even longer than that. And then this last part, let's see. He told me we had the phone conversation, not this last Saturday, but the one before.

And we had been hanging out for about two weeks. So it's fresh. You brought this up. You had the phone conversation, not this last Saturday, but the one before. And we had been hanging out for about two weeks. Okay. So it's fresh. You brought this up. You had the conversation. You haven't talked for a little while. And then you decided to send him this letter. Is that like where we're at?

Yeah. After the call. And he was like, you can reach out if you want to. And I was like, probably won't. Like, I feel weird about, you know, you like, he said he wanted to take space. He didn't say like, I don't want to hang out with you at all. was like i just need some time uh did you send this letter i did okay it does essentially say that i am not a witch and that i use uh i guess i use spell jar as like a loose term because the spell jars that we made were like it was like an arts and craft thing that i did with my friends

i put that we didn't recite anything or do any type of ritual so you're earnestly trying to be like listen let me explain myself like this is like the court of law yeah like it's yeah i mean i hate that you have to do this i know i don't have to walk this all back i just i mean to me i'm like it's too much we're getting too much in the weeds of all the defending yourself. Like, I think. You did nothing wrong. I really also want to validate how you feel that you really like him and you don't feel comfortable around a lot of people.

But just also knowing that there are other people out there that will make you feel comfortable. Just like, let's just also know that this is not the only guy in the world that's going to quell your anxiety and have you feel a certain type of way and be receptive to you. You're awesome and you're funny and cool and you sound really intelligent and like you know yourself really well. So you will find someone that is providing what you feel like you're getting from this guy. So that being said, a person that you're going to be with for real should take your word for it. You shouldn't have to defend and redline all the things that you've said to them up until this point. You should be able to say, I'm not a witch and they should believe you.

It's simple. And you sound really funny and cool about all this stuff. And I think if somebody anybody's welcome to voice a concern with you, right? Like if somebody ever said to me, you and Ashley do the show about dating and sex. I'm concerned you're going to talk about me in this certain way. And I would have a very calm, rational discussion about what I've done with my boyfriends in the past, how I've spoken about past relationships. I'd like them to take my word for it. They're welcome to listen to the show, but I'm not going to keep gratifying this. I'm not going to keep explaining myself, you know?

And I agree with Ashley too. It's hard to find somebody you really care about. So I get wanting to explain yourself. It's really tough. But how many times am I going to have to do this? I just think all that's left to do is I like you and I'm not a witch and you know like yeah has he responded to the letter he has another part of the letter is i did say i do have a crush on you but it's like just crush i'm not trying to like jump into a relationship with you or anything because i also was worried that maybe he got like super freaked out by that and was like, oh, feelings too fast. What was his response to the letter? Yeah. He said, I super appreciate you sending that.

And for clarifying, I wasn't trying to or I'm sorry if it came off as an accusation. And I don't know. He just like thanked me for sending it and said that he really appreciated it. That was it, though. There was no. Yeah. I mean, pretty much. No next steps? I responded to that and I said,

I don't know, I essentially just like told him that I want to respect his boundaries and that like he, if he still needs space, like that's totally fine. And, but that I'm like around if he wants to talk and he texted back the next day and said, like, I really appreciate you, like, allowing me to have time and space. How long ago was this? Thursday.

Texted me. Yeah. So about four or five days, four days ago. Are you looking for a partner like you're 29? Right. Like what is your goal to find somebody and like be in a serious relationship? Like let's take him out of it. But are you at a point in your life where that's what you want?

Yeah. I just have a bad picker and I like tend to I don't I don't want it to be like just anybody. Like I settle a lot, you know. I hate that you blame yourself and you say I have a bad picker. I mean, it sounds like you found somebody that created joy in your life that you enjoyed that reduced your anxiety. And all we can do is just like I feel like emotional talking about it. All we can do is like lean into things that make us feel good and be cautiously optimistic and be honest. And you're not some idiot who picks terrible people. Maybe you are. I don't know if you pick terrible people, but you don't seem like it. We all pick terrible. But if you're if you think so,

we've talked to this in our show. If you think you have a bad picker, that's why there's people here like us to be like, it shouldn't feel like this for you. You know, like if you really want to find somebody and that's what you're looking for, the right person just it won't make you feel like this, like it will feel easy and you'll feel like someone thinks it's so dope that you do what you do. It won't be defending these things and having to have anxiety like this is causing you more anxiety now. You know what I mean? So like we're two months in that this person has kind of made you doubt yourself, have you defend your fucking spell jar and now giving you like anxiety about it. So if it works out, I think if he comes back around and

he's like, I thought about this and I'm willing to kind of move forward i'd be okay with it i'm talking like you we know you're a friend but otherwise i just think that just know that this isn't really how it should feel and there are other people out there that won't make you feel like that and if you think you have a bad picker that's also fine but that's why there's other people to kind of well it's something to consider too if you think you have a bad picker just because also fine but that's why there's other people to kind of well it's something to consider too if you think you have a bad picker just because you think he's better than the rest doesn't make him great you know he's just better than some other shitty options i kind of just go back to the original point uh that reina and ashley that it's just like he just seems he doesn't fully accept you for who you are and he could be a great conversationalist and just

like easy to talk to but at the end of the day he doesn't really accept who you want to be and who you are right and you know he's like a decent guy to hang out with but maybe he's just not your guy that's i guess like part of it is like i have a hard time finding people that are like accepting of me um in a romantic sense i have like a lot of really wonderful friends but this just like felt so different and that's why i'm like holding on to it yeah um because it also happened like like when it got romantic it also happened like right after i deleted my dating apps and i was like fuck this i'm over this i don't want to have to like meet somebody on Tinder. Like I would rather meet somebody in the wild.

Yeah. And it happened like shortly after that. And it was totally unexpected. Like I did not. I mean, I know like coming over for a back rub is probably going to lead to something, but it but I wasn't expecting it. Yeah. And it's flirty and it's exciting and you

just reached the like fuck it stage of dating so it must have felt so serendipitous and like yes this is how it's like the supposed to of like finally like I've been in the trenches dealing with all this bullshit and now I get this and like I don't know it from the way you've kind of told the story I I maybe fall more on your approach than I think other people in the room just in the the sense of like, I feel like from what I'm getting from you, it seems like you're sorting this as like this is his trauma. Like he has legitimate and it might be, you know, trauma and obviously trauma is a spectrum. Like there's a whole range of seriousness, but like he has like real trauma around this. And so you're treating him with the same kind of like acceptance and patience that you would hope a partner would like approach you with does that feel accurate like it's part of it yeah totally yeah and like

I think it's it seems like maybe you're seeing yourself in him in ways where it's like and it makes total sense especially if you're feeling like accepted like just like feeling like there's like that core level of alignment and I think also I don't know I think in situations when I've done that in the past where I think I'm like oh I'm treating you like I wish someone would treat me sometimes it can just be really helpful to treat myself that way which is maybe like cheesy and reductive and too simple to be helpful but like sometimes really like resurf like re-centering that and like when I catch myself like kind of like pining or yearning or like kind of making efforts to like reach out or to feel like connected or to like kind of like embrace this person even in like a

small like metaphysical way like redirecting that back to myself can be really helpful even though again it's like easier said than done it's actually funny that you say that because like my next journal entry that I had was like I can't wait to love myself the way that I love my friends and my people. And I've been like working. I'm sorry, I'm crying so much. Don't you dare apologize. I'm going to start crying with you. I want to validate that it is really hard to find somebody that means so much to you.

And, you know, we're all looking for somebody who like accepts our brand of anxiety or whatever it is that we're going through. And I understand not wanting to let it go. But you've done all the right things. You've explained it. And there is a certain level of compromise in your relationship and explaining yourself and saying, this is where I come from. This is where my past has led me to. But there's not much else that you can do. You've done all the healthy, good things. You've explained yourself. But there's a much else that you can do. You've done all the healthy, good things. You've explained yourself. But there's a point at which you go past over explaining yourself. And I like what you're saying, which is that like you have to look in the opposite.

Like what I what I want this behavior and in the reverse, like if you were really uncomfortable with something he did, would you keep treating him like he has to keep explaining himself and keep apologizing? Like doesn't sound like it. No, I wouldn't um but i'm also not like for me like if i need to take space it's like a day or two um but i also understand that some people need like longer to think and figure out like what they're trying to figure out i think i don't that's all you can do like if he'll figure it out on his own if he wants to move forward i think and all you can do in the meantime is also just

focus on loving yourself you're you're you're so great like i just we are we all in this room i know we all like so in love with you and it sounds like you've great friends and i mean i'm sure if you're a little more like goth witchy Texas is not the best place where you feel there's all your people oh you're awesome oh never mind you're great um that's I love to hear that so just yeah I was like Texas just focus on that I don't know you'd like if you feel like you still have a journey of self-love then there's you could focus on that and like redirect this attention and this time and energy that you're kind of placing on this guy to yourself you're only looking for one you know the most amount of relationships that you're ever going to have that don't fail

is one that's it unless they die you know and then technically maybe it didn't fail but other than that you're just gonna have one and you're you're not that old you're 29 you're young you're super young and you already mentioned just recently that you actually were kind of going through a like a moment of dating fatigue as you described it like you know it's like fuck this when we get off the apps want to have it more organically and like this guy and like what felt like almost good timing at first in fact the way i hear it it almost sounds like bad timing because you met like a good enough guy to give you just a little enough a hope to get you excited after like just coming out of a bit of a rut right yeah but in reality he's probably just another fucking guy. Maybe easy to talk to.

You had one good night and I'm not saying he's, you know, maybe he ends up being your guy. I don't know. But most likely, like I said, he doesn't seem to really fully accept you for who you are. And maybe that's like hitting a little harder than it should right now because you are kind of going through this period right now. But I just think maybe it's just another signal to like really hone in on yourself again. Maybe when we're dating, it's like we get fatigued all the time. It's great to take breaks. Go back to the whole like working on yourself, focusing your friends, you know, go back to like, you know, maybe, you know, not putting yourself out there as much.

And I think things will play out. But I think right now, maybe you met this guy at the wrong time because you were feeling a little vulnerable and it kind of masqueraded itself as something that was kind of organic or what you're looking for. And then he had a couple like, you know, early singles, you know, where he just kind of couple early hits and you're like, you got really excited and got some false hope. And now you kind of have these kind of false expectations for this guy and to your point like it's kind of like i understand why you did it but like you shouldn't

have you didn't need to write a whole letter explaining why you're not a witch to this guy like that was overkill i understand why you did there's nothing wrong for doing it but he didn't deserve that uh that amount of energy from you and i just think if you just remember you're only looking for one i know like it's super annoying and you know you know it's you get impatient but like the the rest of your life is a super long time and you just have to find one and when you're lucky enough to find the one then it the payoff is so great so anytime you're like in a rut like this just remember like, like, it's just you're just looking for one. And the life. No, no. Life is super long. You know, life is short, but like life is long. And I'm a big fan of like, just because something can't be right now doesn't

mean it's never. And it sounds like on the positive side, this has set you on a path of some self-discovery and some growth and loving yourself. And maybe you lean into that and maybe he will come around someday. Maybe he'll change his mind, but you've done all the things. And it sounds like you're going to lean into loving yourself and done all the things you can do. Down the road, you're going to be kind of annoyed that you wrote him that letter. Yeah. You won't be able to answer that question quite yet. Yeah. Report back. Five years from now. You didn't do anything wrong. I'm also like a letter writer. No, that's okay. But I just feel like you're you're gonna look if you go back and read the letter you're gonna be like why did i need to explain myself so much to this fucking guy like why you know and i think

right now you just can't see the forest through the trees so to speak you know i just think maybe just take another time out you know from from dating a little bit you know i always say leave the doors and windows to the rooms that you hope to fill, but you, like, you know, you never really, but you don't have to, like, put yourself out there as much, you know, because it's vulnerable, you know. But just take a step back and just still be open. It's going to work out. Just remember, you're only looking for one.

It's definitely going to happen. You're only 29. Cosign. Yeah. Shameless plug. Maybe read, don't text your ex your ex happy birthday if you haven't yet i think i haven't yet okay it might i don't know there might be some nuggets in there for you for sure yeah i just don't think he's i don't think he's worth all this energy you're putting

into him you only do so much you've done the things and i think that it's really nice that you're on this path of self-love and you should do something today, this week to gratify how great you are. And we all think you're so funny. We're also smitten with you. Like, call all these friends that you have and like, go do something and just remember like what a bad bitch you are. Bad witch. Your feelings about someone doesn't necessarily make them who they are, you know? So you're excited about them you know and that's how you

feel but like that doesn't necessarily say anything about who he is how he is going to be as a partner you know and things like that so it's just something to remind yourself that when you're like pedestals we all we've all been there been there paid for that yeah all right

okay all right well keep us posted on on all things you know witchcraft and boys and men yeah and just taking care of yourself and check in with us good luck we'll do all right all right take care bye you too bye all right reina ashley before we let you go i want you to settle the bit we had we talked about this on better date than never uh the am i an asshole roommate situation in a roommate situation depending like, you know, how connected the walls are, is it reasonable expectation to ask your roommate not to have sex on a work night or a school night, so to speak, at the risk that they could wake you up at, say, you know, one in the morning? This is just like such a lose-lose like this is just like the plight of roommates right that's what my argument was like hey listen that's part of being a roommate

it feels like a conversation between two girlfriends that you're like i want you to get laid clearly you know i don't want to deprive you of orgasms but i'm hearing you which i don't know if you i don't know if that's embarrassing for you also you know but i'm hearing you, which I don't know if you I don't know if that's embarrassing for you also, you know, but I'm hearing you and I'm like losing sleep. How can we troubleshoot this? Like, are we into shower sex? Is there a noise machine situation? Like it's there's not a solution. The solution is not stop having sex. And the solution is also not let me lose sleep because I'm hearing you have sex. It's like it's got to be some sort of compromise. Is it pounding up against the wall that you sleep against? So for the spirit of debate, let's say like they've done everything they could do within

reason to like eliminate noise. Then it's like you've got I mean, you don't I mean, run the lease out, I guess. I don't know how much longer is on it, but that's like you made a bad roommate decision. This has been a bad roommate setup. Like we've all kind of had that. Yeah. And we like live and learn. Yeah.

I mean, my first roommate in New York, we just had totally opposite schedules she worked nine to five i worked five to 2 a.m i was a waitress she had like a normal job and we were always having sex at different hours and it was a problem in a new york city apartment yeah i mean that was a real the toilet was in her bedroom it was a whole thing um but that just we had to run out the lease and it just wasn't somebody that i could live with we weren't compatible with each other sending the prayer hands like right right in the middle of somebody's sex session i'd be like you're killing my vibe you know it feels a little instigative but of course you're welcome to say this is too loud this is my home i pay the rent yeah i'm going in there with the like air horn like the app on my phone like

like i'm at the door like i don't know i feel like when i was younger i was just such an asshole like that i'm like two can play this game like i used to have like banging with the guy that lived below me like he was a dj and we would i would just i would grab a weight and bang on the floor and he would be playing his music loud i was like i'm ruining my own life like this and then we finally hashed it out one day and we were super considerate from there on out but like we finally were mature adults about it because we ran into each other in the hallway. But I just it's a shitty situation. And I think there's a world in which if someone's dealing with this right now, like if it's

your close friend that you want to continue living with and continue a friendship with, it's like actually just to sit down, have a mature adult conversation about like, I want you to have sex, but I also want to sleep. And how can we figure this out and compromise? Or if it's someone that's a random roommate that you just tell yourself, I'm going to run the lease out and then this will be over. And sometimes things feel better when there's an end in sight. Things can feel better when you know it's only a matter of time till it's like over for good, too. Or when you retaliate. So you should find somebody. Oh, yeah. You can also be as loud and be like do you like this

are you cool with this because i'm just gonna keep doing this at 7 30 a.m before my class literally yeah no i i'm not a fan of retaliation i'm just kidding but yeah i mean moving is hard and this sucks but like it just probably isn't your roommate probably isn't your person isn't your person to live with and if there can't be a solution because like i want my friends to get laid i want them to like get theirs but not i need eight hours bed noises wouldn't bother me but if someone like but like you're living with a person it is the nature of a roommate situation i don't think that's gonna be very loud maybe that's that's you that's your problem like something like six inches actually no i want to talk about that are you next neck in the bedroom

do you talk at all? Sure. Okay. Do you make noises? Do you alert someone when you're coming? Mime only rules. I'm pretty loud. Do I alert someone?

You know when you say it like that. I had a situation recently where I was like, oh, okay. I didn't know. Do a lot of guys do that? Silent comers. Most guys tell you they're coming, right? Yeah, it's my favorite thing. I want to talk all about it. A hundred percent. I'm having a conversation. I want a conversation i want to know it's more of like a

heads up where should i land sure i just i like the the term i'm gonna come like i will fantasize about that until the end of time silent comers are my nightmare i want to hear the word come at least five times while we're having sex i want you to tell me you want me to come i want it to go back and forth i want a progress report i want to know quantities and where it's going to land and like how much of it is going to go inside of me. I'm a big fan of it. And do you like the word come or do you like alternatives like load? My load.

I'll do load. Somebody tells you they're going to put a huge load in you. I'm very into it. I don't want to hear load. I do. we are an anti-load show i would say or we've had a lot of anti-load discourse because we made derek read a a text a sex exchange about a guy talking about his load and i just like cum yeah but rain so here's the thing with rain are very different rain Raina, she wants all the details of the cum, like the temperature, the quantities.

I don't know how hot it's going to be. My load's a little chilly today. But then when it's on her, she hates it and has to get off her immediately. And I'm more inclined to be like, it's not that big of a deal. You bathe in it? I don't bathe in it, but I'm not grossed out by it. You're more like, I'll get it off immediately. I'll just, it's just i'm not grossed out by it as you're more like i'll get it off immediately like i'll just you know i'm not i'm not grossed out by cum i'll just like come talk but i don't want to see it afterwards you don't want to see it i want to see it come

on i don't really like to get come on that much like you could do it but i don't like it i'll pretend i like it and i'll beg for it but the second it happens i need a towel immediately i feel like most guys are like that too though they like the idea of it and then it happens, I need a towel immediately. I feel like most guys are like that too, though. They like the idea of it and then it happens and then they're like, I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. But I'm like, never apologize for coming. That's my memoir name. Ladies, we could talk for hours.

Yeah, we did. We did. Sadly, we have to let you go, which is sad. Nick, will you come on our show? Yeah, please. Okay, great. I have to go out of the country for a few weeks. you come on our show? Yeah, please. Okay, great. I have to go out of the country for a few weeks. We heard.

And then I'll be back. Okay, great. Can I come on? We would love that, yes. I'd love nothing more. Please let my audience know where they can find you, where they can maybe see you on tour, maybe see a boob or two. You got some sex toys out there. I know.

That was a one-time thing for me. Pitch away. GirlsGottaEat.com, and you can get tour tickets there. I know. That was a one time pitch away. Girlsgottoeat.com and you can get tour tickets there. We start back up in the fall and we're going to be on the West Coast, New York, Toronto,

London even. So get tickets to London. Yeah, we're starting the fall tour in London. So and it's our snack city tour. So we call it

you can get tickets and everything really at girlsgottoeat.com and follow girlsgottoeat podcast on Instagram and TikTok and then vibesonly.com is the sex toys and info on the app and everything. So really just girls get to come vibes only.com.

That's amazing. Well, check all their great stuff out. Uh, we'll be, I'll be podcasting with them in a few weeks. Can't wait for that. Yeah.

I said, hopefully. Yeah. Hopefully when you get back, you'll come over and do it. I'm like, no, it's just like,

no, no, it's my hope. Nick, we want you on the show. I pitched this I was the one who emailed and asked about this

yeah that's how this all happened we're here because we asked well it was an it was an immediate yes you guys did respond pretty quickly this was wonderful

I'm sweating we don't give immediate sometimes we have you know when we get pitched no I was like yes we're excited in case you care we do care

anything else do we need no yeah bye bye