The Viall Files - E613 Going Deeper with Gina Kirschenheiter - RHOC, Pick Me’s, and Professional Friends

Episode Date: July 20, 2023

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Going Deeper Edition! At the beginning of the episode, we discuss current pop culture topics such as Olivia Rodrigo’s new song and “professional friends” in LA, along with Skims saving a woman’s life and what Matt Damon and his wife agreed on in couple’s therapy. We also ask if you would rather have your text messages shared online, or have an ex write a song about you.  Then, we are joined by Gina Kirschenheiter from The Real Housewives of Orange County to talk about this season’s drama, her relationships with her castmates, and how she is navigating her personal relationships with her partner and ex-husband. We dive into pop culture topics like Miranda Lambert stopping a show to selfie-shame, and Sofia Vergara’s divorce announcement. We also discuss Bebe Rexha posting screenshots of her boyfriends’ texts, and if that’s ever okay (during or after a relationship). We then have a Texting Office Hours caller who isn’t sure if her long term best friend is either protective or manipulative - she’s made some judgemental comments about her ex, the city she lives in, and the choices she’s making.  “Is Jenn a mid-40s Pick Me?” Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes. Join us for our new LIVE show on Thursdays at 9PM ET/6PM PT on Amp, available in the Apple app store. Android User? Listen here: https://www.onamp.com/  To Order Nick’s Book Go To: http://www.viallfiles.com   If you would like to get some texting advice on Office Hours send an email to [e-mail] with “Texting Office Hours” in the subject line! To advertise on the show, contact [e-mail] or visit https://www.advertisecast.com/TheViallFiles  THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Drizly - Drizly is the most convenient way to buy beer, wine and spirits, with delivery to your doorstep right when you want it. Download the Drizly app or go to https://www.Drizly.com  Brooklinen - Use promo code VIALL for $20 off your online purchase of $100 or more plus free shipping on https://www.Brooklinen.com  Paramount - Paramount Plus. Stream Now.  Rocket Money - Stop throwing your money away. Cancel unwanted subscriptions – and manage your expenses the easy way – by going to https://www.RocketMoney.com/VIALL  Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @ginakirschenheiter @alison.vandam @liffordthebigreddog @dereklanerussell   

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What's going on everybody welcome back to another exciting episode of the vow files going deeper edition i'm your host nick joined by the full household of ali amanda derrick and genevieve how's everyone doing what's cracking what's new what's going on what's up sluts that seems why did you look at me when you said that some new office lingo am i supposed to like allow not allow that i've been saying stuff like that a long time it's just you've been here the last couple times i've said it gotcha and this is like just a check-in is everyone fine with that like i don't blink twice if you need help i feel like everyone's fine with it okay ali says i think everyone's fine with it right Ali says, I think everyone's fine with it.

Right, guys? I think it's professional context. It's all good. And I'm like, all right, slots. She's only saying it because it's true. Is it appropriate? I feel like I'm being set up. Is it appropriate?

No. Is it appropriate? No. Okay. You said it very similarly. What? You sounded like the button. You did a great job impersonating yourself. Did I? No. Is it appropriate? No. Okay. Anyway. You said it very similarly. What? You sounded like the button. You did a great job impersonating yourself.

Did I? Yeah. Good for me. I am writing the grandparent hi still. If you are lucky enough to have grandparents who are alive, give them a ring. You will feel better. Phyllis Pocket called me the other day. I called her back and we had a nice little chat.

That's so cute. What questions does Phyllis ask you just how am I doing she's getting older she's getting up there her memory is you know not what it was so we try to keep it simple I feel like my grandparents will ask

follow up questions on the most random they just care about every detail of my life in a way that is so kind but you'll just be talking like oh yeah I went out for dinner with friends and they're like how many friends? Did you get a reservation? They'll just really hone in on something specific

and go like Barbara Walters on me and I'm not mad about it. See that's nice because it's better than I feel like often times I have to pull I'm like so it's Thursday. Ladies dinner tonight? Yeah. You excited for ladies dinner?

Yeah. Tomorrow's Friday. Any Friday plans? Yeah. Yeah. Anything this weekend? No. Okay.

For the listeners, Allie's doing some object work right now. She's miming pulling a rope. There you go. All right. I told Phyllis some big news that I had. And so she was excited about that. That you're a slut? She already knew that.

Oh, great. That's right. You live together. We did. Yeah. She knew. She knew. She would be up late knitting and I'd be, you know, coming home at like two in the morning

and I would download my nights with Phyllis. Love. That's so cute. That's really cute. Yeah. Did she judge you for it? No, I mean, I wasn't like crude.

I didn't like get into the details of, you know, my escapades, but I would talk to her about escapades. I was joking. Yeah, I talked to her

about dates and stuff and girls I like. Aw. Phyllis. Phyllis. We have an amazing episode for you today. Gina Kirshenheider is with us.

Gina! From Real Housewives of Orange County, which I recently started watching, and call her me a fan. Yeah. I'm into it. I enjoyed it. It's silly.

I started watching Real Housewives of New Jersey. For whatever reason, it was... I guess I wasn't as into this much as into those storylines of the most recent season just past one with maybe it's a season to season and storyline the storyline but i've i've been enjoying this season of uh real housewives of orange county and uh we get into a lot of it with gina she you know she's very gracious with her answers talk some trash we get to the behind the some behind the scenes she didn't flinch with any question because i was looking i was looking through the footage i was like she did not once give a she wasn't like i

wish i could say but whatever like it was direct answers every single time yeah so i'll find with gina got into some pop culture topics what didn't we we get into it? You know, what else do we have? What's else going on in the world that we haven't covered with Gina? So something that we kind of touched on a little bit in pop, I believe this was when you were out of town, Nick. But Genevieve and I talked about Olivia Rodrigo's new song Vampire. Love. There's a lot of speculation before it was released about who it was about. And we were wrong. We were. We'll go on record.

Who did you think it was about and we were wrong we were we'll go on record we were wrong about we and many others i will say we thought it was we might have been about taylor swift and that was about their feud yeah yes are they in a feud well feud might be a strong word a divide and yes but the lyrics were like other girls but we didn't have the lyrics yet we just knew the title this was before it was released we knew nothing we were speculating like't have the lyrics yet. We just knew the title. This was before it was released. We knew nothing. We were speculating. Yeah, because like listening to the lyrics, clearly about a boy. Yeah. So now people are saying it's about-

Zach Bia. Zach Bia. Yes. And we've been talking about this a little bit in the office, so I feel like we should bring it to the show as well. The idea of, especially in LA and cities like LA, professional friends. It feels like when we were doing research on Zach Bia- Bloodsuckers.

Yeah. He's a- LA professional friends. It feels like when we were doing research on Zach Bia, there was literally a Google prompt that said, how does Zach Bia know so many famous people? He might be a professional friend. And they're always like these unique looking people, I'll say. Oof. That's a nice way to put it. It's like when someone shows you their newborn, you're like,

that's interesting. That's a baby. That looks so unique. Yeah. Yeah, no, la is a weird place i really like the song she's talking about a guy but to me she's more talking about a certain type of person in la which is very much yeah they're i like the title they're bloodsuckers they're they use people and they are professional friends because LA is a lonely place. There's a lot of people who move from their communities to LA and they have a little bit of success or maybe they don't. Maybe they're just kind of out here on a whim.

And then maybe if they pop a little bit in LA, you can be naive. You don't really know how things work. You're just kind of looking for companionship. And there are these kind of groups of people that are essentially shameless. They're just really good at shamelessly introducing themselves and kind of being extroverted and friendly and helpful. They're very helpful. And also, they're connectors. They claim to know a lot of people, you know, and they'll name drop like no one's business. And LA is a type of town that like it's hard to know who lot of people, you know, and they'll name drop like no one's business. And LA is a

type of town that like, it's hard to know who you should trust. And for whatever reason, it's easier to trust someone who claims to know someone that you either know or that you at least respect, like from a name recognition standpoint. And these people are just shamelessly throwing people's names around. They're excellent liars, more so than liars that are just shamelessly throwing people's names around they're excellent liars more so than liars that are just excellent at stretching the truth like for example everyone they know they'll claim like oh i'm best friends with hank they're my best friend oh jill best friends and then you'll meet hank and jill and they'll be like i mean like yeah i met zach once they're like oh he says you're their best friend but like they, they just, they never really get caught.

And by the time they get caught, they usually, it's after they've kind of used. It's like a Ponzi scheme. Truly. They all have these like side hustles. Like Zach B is a quote unquote, a DJ,

you know, which is okay. Sure. You know, a lot of these people are, are self-proclaimed managers or they're producers. You know, like anyone can say they're a producer,

like help a friend make an Instagram reel. Man, you're a producer. You produced that video with them, you know? Or you're a manager because you know someone who you got someone a brand deal at some point, you got them paid, or you made an introduction to them to go to a party. And next thing you know, they're a manager. and they're a manager, but they're so shameless and they are good at preying on the naive and often young and impressionable. And they're always willing to pick you up at the airport. And a lot of them are nice. They'll do you favors and they'll give you companionship.

And you don't realize you're just being used and they're just social climbers and then you look at like someone like zach b and you look at his face and you go how i'm looking at him right now like nothing about him physically screams i should be able to date some of the most successful and powerful and attractive women in hollywood i feel like there are people like that at college though too oh you're talking about the Northwestern goggles. Well, or just I mean, where I'm like, wait, but you're not actually like this group of people like you're just somehow a part of them. Like you don't share their passion or their talent for this one thing, but somehow you were like enmeshed within it, like how people are able to just kind of like. And part of it is at the fault of i guess the celebrity you could say because you

know you know there's a level of narcissism in every celebrity and again these people know how to be a friend so they're they're very complimentary they're yes men they're professional like assistants that you don't have to pay for and it becomes very kind of muddled and messy between are they my friend or are they like an assistant and there's this weird power dynamic but they're also really good at like making the celebrity kind of feel bad there's a lot of negging and a lot of like putting it's all very manipulative and things like that so like hearing the the lyrics of the song vampire not only describe like fuck boys but to me they describe a type of person

in LA that if you're moving to LA and you're trying to make it into this town, watch out for these people because they'll mask themselves as friends. And they're just social climbers who are kind of, and they're fans or things like that. But they're also just really good at being around celebrities. And that's their gift is they don't act, they act as if. They're acting like they belong. They don't act like fans. They act like friends. And sometimes the people who they're pretending to be friends with mistaken that as they know how to... And again, they also claim to be best friends with so-and-so. It's like, oh, well, I guess you're safe to be around. But they're just using you and social climbing and using your name as currency and

then at some point they're going to tell someone else that they're best friends with you after you've been like i mean i hung out with them a couple times in group settings group settings but okay or maybe you hung out with them one-on-one once and they picked you up at the airport once and then they did something weird and you're like maybe i should stay away from them but they go around like dropping your name left and right this show is making me think charisma is like not a quality to look for in people because i think there's so many people who are charismatic and because they have so much charisma there's other parts of self-growth that they're able to avoid by being like charming enough to always find a new person instead of having to like sit with the consequences

of breaking a relationship or like how Dr. Maya talks all about like butterfly or, you know, like butterflies being a bad thing. And like, you know, Logan Urie, fuck the spark. Like, it's really making me feel like the more like charming and personable someone is, the more likely it is. What are you hiding? Yeah. Like just that they get away. It's like the kind of like, you know, like pretty privilege.

It's like another dimension of that, of like pretty privilege it's like a another dimension of that of like yeah like personality privilege the truly pump up privilege there are there just clearly are people who are better at being charismatic and likable and creating chemistry with anyone and so when you say to yourself oh i feel chemistry with them it could just be their own unique skill set it is definitely something to watch out for and it is it gives you a false sense of security and you know and i'm guessing like with olivia rodrigo which was what 19 when she was dating the zach be a guy you know and he's probably like on best friends with drake and yada yada yada it's like how could someone who's best

friends with drake be bad for? He'd already dated Madison Beer. Madison Beer? It's not like he came out of nowhere. He already dated a celebrity. I feel for her. You know, she'd just come off the sour drama, the love triangle drama. She just moved to LA.

I'm sure she's, this boy is being really, really, really nice to her because he wants in. You know, Madison's left him. She wrote a few songs about him he needs to clear up his image by dating this you know kind of young girl that people really love like they really took her side during the love triangle i don't blame her at all i feel so bad for her but i love the song would you rather have someone release your text messages or write

a negative love love song you. Negative love song. Me too. Same. Because at least there's some romance in it rather than being like, I didn't mean it like that. I honestly, oh, actually, I was like, maybe that was a stupid thing that I didn't mean. But I was gonna be like, I think would I rather have no song written about me or a negative love song written about me? Probably a negative love song. I'd go no song.

What? Well, you would rather be the subject of vampire maybe not that song maybe like that's not negative oh yeah the one song that taylor slip wrote about an ex that is like it's it's not negative but it is low-key like i didn't like you enough the nicest thing taylor's ever said about an ex was i didn't really like you the nicest thing taylor's ever said about x was i didn't really like you that's not true you just haven't listened to the album lover enough hello anything she wrote about joe those are all pro okay pro joe that was during the relationship yeah yeah i think it's different is a pretty positive it's true it's like how much it's like how much she misses this person then there's you're losing me yeah tough to date a songwriter i gotta say yes brutal brutal ollie has experience with this

we were listening to his music on spotify yesterday jenna beave derrick and i we don't know the timing of one was a little suspicious it It's catchy. I think he did. You think he did? Why can't we talk about this? I don't know. That's not even a name. I don't know if it is actually about me or not. So you dated a guy. I went on a few dates with a guy.

You went on a few dates with a guy who makes music. Yes. And uploads his own songs to Spotify. Yeah. And you suspect there's a chance that one of those songs might be about your few interactions. Yes. Why? and you suspect there's a chance that one of those songs might be about your few interactions yes why a lot of the drafts were posted like on tiktok and the draft started right after i ended things and like this the song slowly became a song and now it's officially out we love it do you find it

catchy it got stuck in your head it's a good song we can't sing was going to say. No, we're not going to sing it on air. We can't sing it. We can't sing it. You probably appreciate it. Yeah, great exposure. Yeah. Yeah. It lives rent-free in my head. Yeah. So yes, it's catchy.

Derek's the best because Derek actually keeps tabs on like every single guy. Can I listen to it when we're done? Sure. Yeah. All right. Yeah. We were going through my exes yesterday and I pulled up one of them and Derek goes, why do they all make content?

And I was like, I don't know. You live in LA. I don't know. Yeah, it was literally like, you're like, oh, this person. And you weren't showing like photos on IG. You were showing TikToks that they made. And I was like, why are they just all creating stuff?

Oops. One of them made a rap song without any words. What? I was troublesome. What? Is that a rap? It unsettled me. Or is it just like a beat it just like is that just a beat

ask him it was a fun day a little rabbit hole i'm not realizing because like my big like my ex like the ex is a musician and i just had the thought or i was like damn at any point in time you never got one um no well he wrote one he wrote one love song but it was kind of about how he like doesn't it was cute but it was also like how he's like cynical like the words arsenic and cyanide are in the love song about me but like he has an expansive vocabulary yeah he's no it's i i kind of is about you yeah but then it's like it's it's the chorus is really, but then it's like, the chorus is really sweet, but like, it's like the arsenic cyanide is how he's like, I'm a grump, but then

you make me happy. Well, those are poisonous things, arsenic and cyanide. Well, I just was wondering if he was referring to her as poison. No, although, I don't know. Ego, from an ego standpoint. You're like, no, not the power. Well, I i did i really fucked up because

i my okay do you guys to me i know from like the inner emotional side of this i'm like this is fine it's kosher my ex is still my favorite musician like i think he's the best musician i've ever heard that's weird but taylor swift exists yeah like objectively it's just not true it is true it is true i nobody writes lyrics that are better than him truly like i've just never met someone who writes more like interesting and dynamic songs but folklore exists i'm drunk in the back of my car and i cried like a baby coming home from the bar i mean like you know dolly parton he is i i truly believe. John Mayer. I almost said Tom Hanks. What? I was like, yes and. Why hasn't he made it?

What's his? I don't think he wants to make it. He doesn't really write very commercially viable songs. Who is this man? I already hate him. He doesn't want to make it. I think he just has kind of a complicated relationship. I think it's really weird because it's like his greatest outlet and form of self-expression is also what he's expected to monetize and it's just like a

funky thing to navigate and so he's like i don't know i think he's my perspective was he was just really big on the craft and like of course like wanted the opportunity to do more but you know complicated complicated to do things you like to do the idea is that fucked up am i not allowed to have my ex be my favorite musician no you're allowed it's just um i think we all agree correct me if i'm wrong the household is united against me that it it lacks credibility we don't believe you what does nick think we believe that you believe it but like objectively speaking he just can't be he literally can be i like i will actually go to bat for this man who i would never in a thousand million years do you consider yourself to be musically like intelligent like i'm not like i don't know a lot about music well for me i think it's like the lyrics so i feel like from a writing person standpoint i really appreciate good writing

so i don't think from you think there's no better songwriter in the world than him i think he is he is my favorite songwriter like i i happen to write a song about you yeah but the other the songs about his dad are much better those are the juices but well maybe that's why because you know exactly you know him and you know what it's about and like you feel more connected to his lyrics which again again, don't like make him that good. You're just, you get the most emotional response from it, I guess maybe, because you are connected to it. I feel like I'm gonna, one day I'm gonna print out

my ex's song lyrics. But you think- And I'm gonna bring them, give them to people in office. And I'm gonna be blown away. I think it stands alone as a beautiful poem. I truly think he is a brilliant, brilliant, brilliant writer. And he's incredibly quick and dynamic and funny. What's he do for work?

I don't know right now. It's been a while since I've chatted with him. Does your current boyfriend know that your ex-boyfriend is your favorite songwriter? Yes, because I said that without thinking uh while we were hanging out but we were talking about x's to be fair oh so it was like we were on the x subject it's like me being like we were on the up subject subject and i just happened to mention that my favorite sexual experience yeah exactly kim kardashian's a hero so speaking of okay yes she, she is. She is. The Skims creator has saved someone's life with her. She saved my life.

I mean, she saved many lives. This is true. But this is a literal life. But in the literal sense, it has happened. This woman was shot. She is okay. Thank goodness. Where was she shot?

Because under her dress. I don't know. In her body. It said she got like a lacerated bladder or some a punctured something with the bladder she got shot four times so four times yeah by whom it was like she was caught in crossfire outside a food truck oh my god in kansas city in kansas city you can get rough so she says the night i got shot i was wearing a skims shaping body suit she's she's 22 by the way it was so tight on me that it literally kept me from bleeding out i recommend it i'm definitely

going to buy some more this was she's also sad she says she's sad because this is the first night she was wearing it so it's covered in blood obviously oh no so yeah it keeps it tight yeah it does kim kim reposted her video and just said, wow, she should send her some free. Maybe. Maybe she is. Maybe she is. We don't know. I would imagine that Kim might hook it up.

Yeah. Yeah. No, those bodysuits suck you in. I can speak from personal experience. They look like they're made for babies and they somehow, you somehow get in it. High quality fabric, it seems. Yeah. Yes.

Does it like after a while does it get uncomfy? Not really. You've never worn a skin? I don't think so. I've never worn a skin. I'm a skin virgin.

I wore it to the Taylor Swift concert underneath my blazer. It really kept me all kept me in. Is it comfortable? Seemed fine to me. I mean

it seems to like it. Yeah I like it too. My body in a shit ton of soft blanc. We were happy. I mean that is crazy. I feel like that's like when you read like an amazon review that's like it's like for a table and someone's like i wrote my most successful novel in this like five stars you're like okay i guess it's good like like that's not expected but that is awesome and i

hope kim k sends a package kept her in there sucked her in four times that's insane yeah outside of a food truck bro um wait genevieve i want to talk about this article that you found about matt damon negotiating with his wife in couples therapy yes yes so so on the topic of you know therapy and couples counseling and uh you know setting boundaries between partners matt damon is doing it right, I think. So he has been in couples therapy with his wife and something that they spoke about there was him taking a step back from acting, you know, to focus on his family. Fair enough. He's done a lot of jobs. But the one stipulation he did set in couples therapy is that if Christopher Nolan were to reach out with a role, he would be allowed to take that. And so that is what they agreed upon.

And obviously that came to fruition. He's in the new Oppenheimer movie. And good for him. Good for him. Yeah. It's more like a... Back to the boundaries versus like rules. That's more of an expectation.

It's not really a boundary, right? I don't know if it's technically an expectation either, though. Well, the expectation is why... It's not a boundary. Or is it just reaching a level of understanding or is it just a rule? Well, yeah. Well, rule is like an expectation. Hey, I expect you. A rule could also be a boundary. A rule could also be fucked up.

You know, like I feel like. Sure. But again, we. It's important to have. In terms of expectation. Hey, I. Back to the Jonah Hill thing. His expectation is that she wouldn't wear bathing suits or surf with dudes and shit like that or not surf at all and quit modeling. That was his expectation. He framed it as a boundary. Well, Matt Damon's wife, though, I mean, rule expectation is that that's his work.

It's his job. It's his career. Hey, she was literally asking him to take a step back from work, and that was an expectation or a rule. I mean, that's just whatever you wanna call it, but it's not a boundary, I guess is what I'm saying. Totally. It's a request.

Like a boundary would be, again, you can't set a boundary for someone else. You can set an expectation for someone else or a rule for someone else, and you set a boundary for yourself. Anyway, but healthy communication. And that's the thing. That's the nuance between, you know, here's a married couple. The parallels, and it's interesting, the parallels between these stories, there's a lot of similarities. A couple in a relationship, one's married, one's not, there's that. But in both instances, one person in the relationship had some demands, rules, or expectations around their job, the other person's

job with a request to do less of that job. And again, so much comes into how it's communicated and how it's received. And it sounds like Matt was receptive to it and they had some, you know, good communication and dialogue around this. And, and it was healthy and open-minded because that's the thing. So much goes into the nuance of these conversations more than anything, but it's, it's kind of a cool story. You know, what if it all of a sudden came out, a message is between Matt Damon, his wife. And, and what if she was saying how, like, you're just an egotistical actor and all you do is spend time, blah, blah, blah. And all of a sudden that conversation changes between what they agreed upon. So a lot comes into how it's communicated rather than what is actually being asked. We jumped to a conclusion. It was like, how could you stop one from doing their job? And this is a perfect example. A lot of people have kind of workaholic mindsets, you know, and they're constantly working. And oftentimes their spouse might say, hey, you're not home, babe. You know, like you're not spending enough time with us and the kids. And people have a right to ask their partners to maybe pull back from their careers and their jobs and their personal ambitions and things like that. It comes down to how it's

communicated. What else we got? Gigi Hadid was arrested. She was released. She was released. Says Gigi Hadid released after being arrested for marijuana in the Cayman Islands. Her rep came forward and said Gigi was traveling with marijuana purchased legally in New York City with a medical license. It has also been legal for medical use in Grand Cayman since 2017. Her record remains clear and she enjoyed the rest of her time on the island. Gigi then posted some photos of herself on her vacation on Instagram and captioned it all's well that ends well and a video with the song Cruel Summer playing. Love the post. That's pretty funny.

Yeah. Love to the post. Yeah. I mean, I guess who cares? She made a mistake. So and why she got arrested because it wasn't. Maybe they didn't know it was like because it seems there's a lot of emphasis on the word medical. I'm wondering if that has if they didn't know it was for medical reasons or if they thought she was traveling with it recreationally. I know oftentimes when you're traveling with stuff like that, that's where the issue comes in. But yeah, shortly after Hadid and her pal arrived via private plane, custom officials searched their luggage and allegedly found a small amount of marijuana. And they arrested her for it? Two days later, Hadid and her pal were formally charged during a court appearance where they pleaded guilty and were both fined $1,000. Which for Gigi Hadid, is that just like 10 bucks?

I don't know. But yeah. Yeah. It didn't ruin her day. No, it did not. It's the fact that it was a story probably more than anything was annoying.

Yeah. Do you think people, like celebrities, care about people knowing whether or not they smoke weed? Like, do you think, because I feel like I'm not very tapped into,

like, societally. Like, I have a very specific societally. I still it's still not thought of as the same as, say, alcohol. I think it's unclear to the consumer of weed at times of where everyone stands on the topic. You know, we live in our American culture not only is OK with alcohol, but promotes the consumption of alcohol. culture not only is okay with alcohol but promotes the consumption of alcohol in in fact we have a society where that if you don't drink alcohol you're actually considered weird i feel like and then you're praising that though sure i feel like there's like this new resurgent wave i mean alcohol is becoming the new cigarettes for sure but i'm just saying historically speaking

it's still in many parts of our country it's not only acceptable but it's praised and encouraged as a part of a social kind of acceptance i think that point is so accurate about alcohol becoming the new cigarettes i think mushrooms are becoming the new weed yeah but it's still also judged in some circles so if you're asking who's comfortable with it it's just like you know if you talk about So if you're asking who's comfortable with it, it's just like, you know, if you talk about smoking weed, you're running the risk of, you know, offending someone or having them judge you for, you know, having kind of a 1980s mindset on weed and being like, they're a drug user, you know, type of thing. The devil's lettuce. Yeah. Meanwhile, they're just like saying that know type of thing the devil's lettuce yeah meanwhile they're just like

saying that while like drunk off their ass while their liver is like yeah please stop so pop off gg all right well that about does it for our little round table discussion uh before we get to gina don't forget we have another episode of better date than never live tonight at 9 p.m eastern we're gonna hit you with the topic uh probably sometime today on our social media so look out for that but either way it's gonna be fun wacky and wild and we're excited to have you guys join us so look out for that uh we also have vile files plus available for you y'all uh for all your updates from texting office hours sweating the wedding and just your general ask nick questions there's like 11 uh ask nick update specials on vile files plus for for all those of you who love our updates that we drop on vile files once a month there's so many

updates waiting for you just go to vile files.com and sign up it's free to sign up check it out a lot of fun don't forget to send those questions that AskNick at TheVileFiles.com for all things Ask Nick, texting office hours. We have a wild texting office hours today. You'll enjoy that. And I promise you, you're going to enjoy Gina. Well, let's stop talking about her and let's just get to her. Drizzly, the most convenient way to buy beer, wine, and spirits with delivery to your doorstep right when you need it. That's right, Drizzly. What a great invention. I don't know why it hasn't been around longer than it has been, but tell you what, it's here now and it will save your day when it comes to not having to go to the store just to buy some beer, wine, or spirits.

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VIALL for $20 off plus free shipping. Gina, welcome. How are you doing? Hi, Nick. I'm fabulous, actually. Really? Well, I'd like to start all our interviews by asking the question, how is your heart? So how is your heart? And I was looking forward to asking you that after watching episodes five and six of this season. Yes. And I was concerned about your heart.

My heart is incredibly full. That's great. And I think super healthy. And I think that that's good. I hope I stay there. I hope so too. Yeah. Has that been a work in progress?

I mean, I think for anybody who has gone through a divorce, honestly, just like breakups in general, right? But more so when there's like more intense reasons why people split up and then kids involved, he's like, I'm out. This is too intense kids involved. He's like, I'm out. This is too intense for me. He's like, boring.

Exactly. But no, but I do think that, you know, it takes a long time. And I think that mostly I've been really good. Like my relationship with Travis is like literally always been a game changer. He's such an amazing human. I just love life with him. always been a game changer. He's such an amazing human. I just love life with him. But navigating through, you know, two divorces, blending our kids, our families is a lot. And me healing from some of the stuff in the past is obviously that you've seen like stuff comes up, right? So it's

a journey. I don't know if it ever really goes away. But like, the more that things come up, and you acknowledge them, the easier I think that and believe it gets to being able to look at those things, have them come up and then not having such an intense emotional reaction to those things. Do you really think it never goes away? Well, I think that it was a huge thing that happened to me in my life, but I do believe, so I do think there's always going to be things that come up that remind me of that time or take me back. But I think as you go along on your journey, the way you react to it becomes less severe, less intense, and you look at things differently. Yeah. What's the hardest part or what from your past relationship or divorce,

what's the thing or things that come up the most when you say, I don't think that'll ever go away or things come up? What's the thing that is more triggering for you or the thing that as much as you might try, it just finds its way back into kind of your emotional real estate, so to speak, that you're working on letting that affect you less and less? I think that the lesson that I've learned this year is that you can't really predict the things that are going to necessarily trigger you or bring you back to those moments. that are going to necessarily trigger you or bring you back to those moments. And you have to just go through it and allow yourself to have those moments.

Like, I don't think that triggers are necessarily bad things. I think that triggers are, you know, normal responses to something very emotional or traumatic that you went through that's bringing you back there that gives you an opportunity to look at something that is hard to look at so that you get more comfortable with what you went through and then you can release it. And I think the more times that you are triggered and you have to process and look at those things, the less and less emotional you will get each time that it happens. So I'm looking and I feel like, you know, the show, for instance, when I went through it, that was very emotional for me. Now I have to watch it again, but I don't feel triggered by that. Like, you know, it's harder to film rather than watch for you. It's not easy to do either really,

but I do think, yes, I think it's harder for me to film because I really do just put it all out there. I say everything I have to say during the season and I feel all the feels and feelings. And then honestly, when I watch it, it's always not as bad as I think it's going to be in my head. I just started watching. What do you think? I'm enjoying it. Yeah. I mean, Bravo is putting out so much content. It is, I'll be honest, hard to keep up with all the delicious content that they put out. I know.

I am new to the OC Housewives. Not so much Bravo as much. I'm new-ish to Bravo. Okay. But I'm new-new to OC. Well, welcome. It's been fun. We're happy to have you.

I am happy to be had. I've been enjoying it. Yeah. It is a good time. And it's a good cast. This is a good time to come in, I would say, 100%. Why do you say that? Because it's better now.

How so? The cast makes sense. It's not, it feels less like a cast and more like these are just actually my peers and friends. Interesting. So who previously on the cast would you describe as like dead weight, like happy to let them go? Well, I think a lot lot a lot of the women um who didn't make it like emily and i started and everybody since who came on after us has not stayed so like and i don't i feel bad saying dead weight i think it's more of like you didn't you

didn't yes you you didn't connect and it didn't like whatever like fit right so like the braun win i actually thought Bronwyn was a great housewife until like, and I feel bad saying this because her health is her priority and she needed to get sober and she's doing great now. And I think that's great. But she was like messy and fun. I think she was great. And then when she got sober, it was like just too much for her and she needed to focus on her health. Noella was just made no sense at all. It was like, I don't even ever know what you're talking about. I don't know why you're here. I don't know. Just don't know so many things. Elizabeth Vargas is a sweet, sweet woman, but she again made no

sense. Do they know that they made no sense or would they agree with you? Are they happy to be off? You'd have to ask them, but I don't think anybody is happy to get fired. Okay. Especially when the people who come on who are so like, I am the next queen. A lot of these women come on and that's their person. They're like, I'm going to be the fan favorite and I'm going to be this and that. Because that's why they're doing it for that. And that is never successful. Let's pivot for a second just because I know you're such a fan of pop culture. I am.

And you have a podcast about pop culture. What's the name of it just because I know you're such a fan of pop culture and you have a podcast about pop culture. What's the name of it? Orange Country. Orange Country. Yeah. Let's talk a little pop culture. Sure.

And I'm expecting some hot takes, Gina. Oh my gosh. Because you are a host. I am. Of your own pop culture show. We mostly talk about, it's not exclusively

pop culture though, I'll be honest. It's mostly just like relationship, like mental stuff like every you're gonna thrive in this environment we're on melting speaking of divorces multiple divorces who else is getting divorced we got sofia vergara and ariana grande is separated from her husband let's focus on sofia and joe okay sofia and joe because is has had ariana

announced it or was she just seen without a ring well she was seen at the wimbledon without the ring yeah and it says uh we're told their differences this is ariana and dalton uh their lives became vastly different when covid restrictions lifted their marriage kind of worked a minute ago yeah but they said their marriage couldn't work in a post-covid world dalton and la realtor when we weren't stuck at home and forced to stay inside with each other we no longer had things in common so we weren't forced to be together the space and capacity to pursue individual interests like when we had the ability to do whatever the fuck we wanted the last thing we wanted to do was spend time with each other we were like oh wait actually you're you're the last person on my list yuck uh you no sophia and joe i think that surprised many yeah did that surprise

you gina yeah what's your take who do you blame i don't know if i i think maybe just they're unreconcilable differences too hot i think they're both too hot it's too hot i don't know the only good looking couple the only thing i really know about sophia she's spicy i'm sure well um i feel like this is okay i of, did I tell the story or not? I don't know. About the photo? Yeah. That's the only one I think about.

It's Sofia Vergara. It was Sarah and Wells' wedding. Sarah Hyland, Wells Adams, friends of ours. Obviously, Sarah co-starred with Sofia on Modern Family. And I'm sure you may know this. And this sounds, I guess it's a sound silly to probably most people listening. But if you happen to go to a wedding where there are people who might have some sort of public profile, as you may know this, Gina, that there are often opportunities that present themselves to maybe

have your wedding be talked about with the likes of your E! News or People or Vanity Fair or GQ. I don't know. There's a bunch of different opportunities out there. And part of securing these opportunities, there might be some agreement with said publication about exclusivity, first looks of the wedding, things like that, right? And so part of that, if you are going to these weddings, I've been to a handful,

the couple or someone in the wedding will graciously ask the guest hey listen can you refrain from posting for a set period of time you know maybe till like tuesday or something and everyone's just happy to accommodate some people might forget you know like for for example sarah and wells's wedding i think natalie posted something hey we're going up to wine country and sarah reached out to natalie's like hey like i'm so sorry because you you feel weird asking it's like hey sorry can you not like post. Because you feel weird asking. It's like, hey, sorry. Oh, it's so uncomfortable.

Can you not post because we have this thing? But listen, it's really cool to have your wedding be featured. I don't even know if there's money exchange, but if nothing else, it's kind of a cool, right? You get married, it's like, oh my God. We were like, People Magazine talked about us, our wedding? I mean, nobody can argue with that. Everybody's putting their wedding pictures up on their Instagrams

and social medias as if it is People Magazine if you told anybody oh we're gonna put your wedding photo on the cover of people magazine i mean who wouldn't shit their pants so fun right that is so fun we're at sarah and wells's wedding and they're like don't everyone's like don't don't post okay whatever you know and then the next morning after the wedding, it was like Sofia Vergara was just like not giving a fuck. She was posting the wedding cake. She was posting the classic car they had. Like all the first looks were going through Sofia Vergara's Instagram. I love that.

She broke the story. She broke the story. And I don't know why or like if she didn't care or she didn't know better. But like that was my only impression of Sofia Vergara being like, you know what? I don't care that you have this deal. Check out my Instagram for the latest news. You know what?

Honestly, I'm impressed that Sofia Vergara runs her own Instagram account. She does. So kudos to her. Well, at least she did that day. Yeah, that's for sure. At least she did that day. Yeah, she was getting stolen all the time. I don't know if that ruffled any feathers, but there was a bit of-

Like that Teresa thing. There were some next day conversations What Teresa thing? I'm sure, well remember when Who leaked the invitation To Teresa's wedding? Oh, Ramona Ramona got invited from New York Got invited to Teresa's wedding And then posted on Instagram

Oh, I'm so happy, the invitation that said The date, the time, the place Yes, and I think she actually ended up Oh, I'm so happy. The invitation? The invitation that said the date, the time, the place. Yes. And I think she actually ended up. Do you think that was an honest mistake? Yeah. Oh, totally. I don't think. Yeah.

Ramona. That's very. I feel like that's very Ramona. Classic Ramona. But I thought it was hysterical. She docks to weddings. It's funny. Yes.

And she. I think they ended up changing the venue, but I'm not positive. That's a bummer. That's just funny, though. That's just good. Honest mistake. Yeah. Yeah.

I don't. Do you think sophia knew she wasn't or not didn't care how much did they ask like how much did they mention don't please don't like well i will say that it was like i feel like most of the people there kind of know this like it's like a general understanding i just remember going to this wedding and and i i asked wells i'm like hey i just want to make sure, I'm guessing you don't want us to. And he's like, oh, yeah, please don't. They definitely weren't like ramming it down people's throats and trying to be obnoxious about it.

Do you think, though, that there's a difference between like our industry? That is everybody knows that's like a thing. Right. And it's a lot of partnerships and a lot of stuff like that. But like with Sofia Vergara and like that level of they're just their job is different. Right. They're like actresses and actors. And do you think they're as aware of that?

Yeah, I do. OK. Because like, well, you know, Us Weekly or People magazine might like, you know, I think Sarah and Wells's was I don't I mean, it's already out. It was Vanity Fair. They were covered by Sofia. She should have known better. Like there might not have been like a influencer type of deal or whatever, but like there was

a level of like. Discretion, you should have. Yeah, exclusivity that I just don't think, I think, I feel like Sophia should have known better that she wasn't supposed to offer the first looks of the wedding on her Instagram. Like any bride would want to have control of their first look period whether you're going into people magazine or whatever or or just in general like nobody wants like your third cousin that's at your wedding to post something on instagram like a side profile that you don't like you would definitely always want to be there we even did that for your engagement i remember being at your house we did

like a surprise engagement party and someone one of the bachelor guys was like filming the little like hors d'oeuvres and he was like i probably shouldn't post this I was like don't you dare I was like not until she walks into that door right there I was like because Natalie's gonna see it oh my god like you think about those things yeah totally I mean it's hard for me sometimes with the show because you know we have parties and things and for my friends like they're just real parties you know they're like events that and then my friends don't really understand they don't know you know they don't understand that world it's like they get excited and of course they want to post and it is kind of uncomfortable because i do sometimes have that like i've had to ask one time like oh my god i'm so sorry i know you're like supporting me and you love me but like

that's content doesn't really it doesn't really belong to me and i also like want to be aware of my job and like want to keep all the storylines secret and not. Yeah. So it's a bad, you have to, it's a thing you have to deal with. Maybe Joe is just like tired of Sophia, always like getting dibs on like leaking all their exciting news for the couple. And he's like,

no, what about me? Well, I feel like it also shows that Sophia is probably in most scenarios operating under the mindset that like, she's the bottleneck of privacy and discretion. Like, cause she's probably the one. As long as she's okay with it, then it's fine. Well, I'm sure she's often surrounded by people who are less

concerned or have to be less careful about that. So she just has this mindset of like, oh, if I think it's fine, it's fine. I mean, she literally is a main character. She's a true star. She is A-list? Oh, yeah. At one point, she was the highest paid actress on tv

she's a plus list yeah and we have a main character epidemic in the world so it might be tough for an actual main character to tone that down yeah especially like you could see how in a marriage like if it's a reoccurring thing of like she's not meaning any malintent but she just how long were they married for seven years not bad for bad for Hollywood. What is Joe doing? Is Hollywood, is it a matter of not if, but when, divorce? I don't know. Tom Hanks. I know.

That's what I always think about. Tom and Hanks. They love each other. Also, Kurt Russell. But they're not married. Goldie Hawn. Yeah, but that's- But they're like me and Travis. They're life partners.

Yeah. Well, you had somewhat of a wedding. You posted. Yeah, that was really cute. That was literally my kids. We were at Travis's parents' house and my kids were like, don't come outside. We're preparing something, a surprise. Like, it was actually so cute.

They did this whole like impromptu wedding for us. And they like got Travis's mom's like, I don't know, some doily thing from upstairs. And they made a whole like walkway aisle. And my son, Nicholas, walked me down the aisle to drive. And then they sang Fancy Lake at the end of it. It was really cute. Presley, Travis's daughter, like officiated it. But it was all just like they did it that day.

So it was like an unofficial wedding? Well, people thought I really got married. Kind of did. Yeah. I feel like unofficial weddings may not be a new thing where you have the ceremony, but there's no legality around it.

Right. It's just more... I actually feel like that's the way it should always be. It's just easier. Like, why do we have to sign a contract? It actually seems a little sterile to me. A bit outnitted.

Yeah. Yeah. Yuck. Yeah, different days. Like the emotional, symbolic celebration and then the paperwork day. Right. The paperwork is just

such a it's such a buzzkill uh who on your current cast you think would be most likely to spoil the first look of someone else's wedding by not considering who on your cast mate is is the most bad person sofia vegara uh probably shannon she would do it by like a real accident like a butt style like i swear oh so it's more clumsiness yes that's what i think yes not selfishness intentionally um who's the most selfish well i also believe she is the most selfish but i don't think clumsy and selfish how fun technologically savvy so you know i'm dealing with different that's why i don't know if any of them would be that quick to the share tamra probably

if it could get personal gain from it it would be tamra she's the most she would be the one to get the pictures from someone else's wedding that she wasn't even at and be able to post them like she is like a stealthy like who do you trust the most Who do you trust the least? I trust Emily the most. I trust Shannon the least, 100%. I trust Emily like hardcore. She is one of my best friends. What don't you trust about Emily or Shannon? She's just never been someone who I could trust

or like has been particularly kind to me. It just is what it is. So speaking of me watching the new season, can we talk about Jennifer for a moment? Sure. I want to make sure I understand the full story. Can you walk me through the Jennifer drama? Maybe if you can fill in the holes. She was in a relationship. She had some kids with someone and she cheated on him. Cheated on her husband with Ryan, who you see on the show. The douchebag who seems to be obsessed with married women.

Your words, not mine. Yeah, no, I'm fine with that. And how old is Jennifer? I think she's about 10 years older than me. So I'm 39. Or maybe she's like eight. I think she's like 47. Mid to late 40s?

Yeah, she's late 40s. Yeah, I'm team you here, by the way. Thank you. Yeah. I am too. And listen, people can make mistakes. And I also think people have, by the way. Thank you. Yeah. I am too. And it's, listen, like people can make mistakes. And I also think people have a right to fall out of love. 100%.

People have a right, you know, and sometimes, unfortunately, falling out of love can happen when you have children. Totally. And you have had wedding vows and shit like that. But cheating on your husband only to then move on. Now, did she cheat on with the douchebag guy? Mm-hmm. Interesting.

Right. And then he's since rossed her, so to speak. Is that the... It seems to me... They were on a break and then he had sex with... 100%. Yes, 100%. But I think there's other stuff in there.

It seems to me that since Jen has gotten on this show, he is very committed. Oh, that makes sense. Yeah. So is Jen like a mid-40s pick me? Like needs the attention? Well, listen, I do think age matters. Now, listen, I think people mature at all different aspects of their life. And you can be a young, very mature person. You can be an older, immature person. 100%. But I find it really concerning for Jennifer that in her mid-40s, she is making decisions that are truly hurting other people.

And herself. And herself. Yeah. And that's not excusing people in their early to mid-20s who might do something as similar. But yeah, I mean, I do give those people more grace. You know, if you're in your mid-20s, you're six or husband, but do it with someone who clearly is a type of guy who thrives off of preying on people who are starving for validation and attention. She's insecure. I am concerned for your girl, Jennifer. Yeah, I very much like Jennifer. So I just want to be clear about that.

I'm not even trying to be a dick. But it is what it is. And I've said this before. Yeah. Like she, I think that Jen doesn't really know who she is. And I think that she doesn't have a foundation of who she is. And I think that she is very insecure. And I think she was a small town girl who found Will and was enamored by him. And he moved her to the, you know, across the country to Orange County and it's shiny and great. And he kind of, you know, maybe gave her this life and just, she just acclimated to his life.

And it's like, this is your life now. This is who you are. But I don't think Jen ever did like a much soul searching. This is all speculation. And then it's like, she's unhappy in this marriage, but she's not like confident enough to exit her way out. What are her options? What is she going to do? She's probably scared about it. She meets this guy. He's giving her attention. I mean, it's very cliche. It is what it is. You know what I mean? She's bored at home. He's not giving her the attention she wants. She

goes to the gym and oh, it's so shocking. The douchebag at the gym gives you the attention that you want. And then you you destroy your you know family life for that and you think it's this love and then he plays with your mind and your heart but you i don't even take it as like destroying her family life because and i only reason i say that is because like again people have the right to fall in love yeah there's a certain way that you can exit out oh i think it doesn't impact i think it was terrible what she did. And that's my point. I think what she destroyed was her character, her credibility, her children's willingness to trust her. It's like, how could you? Because you could sit your kids down and be like, hey, listen,

sorry. I know it's really hard, but mom's just not in love with dad anymore. And things like these happen. Let's all get therapy together and handle this the right way. But like mom's doesn't love your dad as opposed to like the betrayal you know we've covered vanderpump ad nauseum on the show and the reality is like i don't think tom you know there's a lot of opinions on tom sandoval but at the end of the day i think tom sandoval just doesn't think cheating is that big of a deal i think it's more of a value system like integrity standards are just lower that's who he is yeah but i don't think i don't think Tom's the only one. We saw something on Tinder. Did you send that to us, Amanda? What is that? Two-thirds of people on Tinder are in relationships.

Now, this is a social media article, so it's not being vetted by the Pew Research Center, but it is- Let's call it 10% or 15%. That's a wild number. Yeah, that is. To know that if it's 10%, one out of 10 people you might match with on Tinder are probably married or in a relationship. Yeah. I mean, that sounds about right though, because I do feel like everybody's shipping everybody. Do you feel like, because watching it back on the show, you seem to be the only one,

and I know it sounds like you're personally affected because obviously you were on the receiving end of infidelity but why are you the only one in your cast who seems to be willing to kind of stand their ground on more of a character kind of issue and say like hey jennifer we love you but like i i don't agree with what you did. I know. And you seem to be comfortable with your actions. And while I'm not trying to come down on you and call you a bad person, like, I'm really uncomfortable with how you seem to be... Justifying. Yeah, justifying or just normalizing this behavior. And it seems like your castmates are kind of, you know, they'll talk behind her back and be like, oh, she's like delusional and things like that. But why are you the only one who's willing to say, I don't I think

what you did is not OK. I'm very confident in who I am and my character. And I'm not perfect. Obviously, I make mistakes. So I'm not pretending to be better than everyone who makes mistakes. But I know who I am and who I am not. And so I never have a problem saying that. And I don't know, maybe some of them have personal experience or a personal relationship with, you know, infidelity themselves. They don't want to be hypocrites. Right. And maybe maybe they don't have any experience with this and they feel like they can attest to it. It was crazy to me. I literally was like I felt like I was going crazy. I was like, why am I the only one who is like, wait a tick? This is insane. Like, why are we going to sit around and listen to this? Like, oh, poor as me. What was me like? You didn't go on vacation enough. Yeah. Didn't take you to dinner enough. So that's OK. Now that you slept with him. And also what what really bugs me really bugs me was the fact that it's like i hate when people do this it's like i didn't have an affair like i had an affair i'm gonna lay on the sword i'm the worst person ever but then she always had to follow it

up with but there was no physical contact don't quantify like the level of the crime you know it's like don't say i did the crime but i didn't do it as bad as other people. So it's not as bad. It's like, look at this. I did the crime. Yes. I'm disgusted with my behavior. I don't want to repeat this behavior. Here's the work I'm going to do to figure out why I did said behavior so that I can make sure that I don't do it in the future. That's the only conversation you should have with yourself and with your peers. 100%. And if that was what was coming out of Jen, I would have no problem with it. But I felt like that was not what was coming out of her. So it didn't feel like she was truly owning it. I couldn't agree with you more.

And then that was bothering me. Like, look, Jen did not cheat on me. And my ex did. And I have a great relationship with my ex. But I didn't always. And it took him time because he had to look at that and he had to truly accept responsibility for that and then work on himself. And he did. And I'm all about that. I'm all about how you recover. I'm all about personal growth and learning. This is life, right? We all go through. It's linear. And then we fuck up. And then we keep going. So to me, the fact that he was able to look at that, pack his pride aside, truly take responsibility for it, and work on himself for us to be able to still be a unit and a family, I think is so respectable. That's great.

And I'm like, thank you for getting me to a place where I'm able to respect you again and now we can all co-parent and be a family and i think that's admirable you know and i think that jen deserves that too and i think she will get there you know like even like raquel's a young girl do you think she's doing the work she needs to do you get better um i don't know i hope so i don't know seems like she's on private jets a lot and with uh what's his name with ryan yeah i don't i think it's the backwards hat the gym shorts for me he made me never want to wear a backwards hat again the splatter paint pants it wasn't i mean natalie my fiance loves me i'm not i've never been a hat guy she likes she loves me in a hat but watching that scene between jen and him and he was wearing that

backwards hat on the couch i was like he's older than me but like and i don't look as old as he looks but he made me never want to look wear a backwards hat again for like you know what if i i don't want to look like he looks like a guy who's just like hanging on to dear life to his like you know bottle popping days i love long Island so much is where I'm from. And I love everything about it. But like he reminds me of so many guys from Long Island. Like what is she seeing him? Validation.

He just validates her. He is really you. You would get it. I think. I think your read on her, I think, is fair. And I think if you met him, you would instantly understand why she stays with him because he is that guy and he presents really well and he's super likable and he's super nice. He's a guy who targets married women. He like, you know, unfortunately, there are a lot

of people in marriages, men and women who feel forgotten and lost and, you know, get the life kind of gets in the way of giving each other the attention you used to give each other and so this motherfucker knows that and he's out there just like complimenting a bunch of like married people and makes her feel good right and i think it's also probably very scary for her the thought of truly being on her own which i think is why she was in a loveless marriage for years and didn't do anything about it. Because I think she's truly scared to, to, it isn't easy to like, have to look at, look at her situation. Like she's married.

She has no idea what's going on financially in her life or her home. She has five kids. She's in a separate bedroom from this man. They're basically, you know, estranged, I guess, at that point. And like to leave, she like, what is she even going to do? You know, like, it's just a scary thought. It doesn't come natural to a lot of women to be like, well, I'm just going to get a lawyer. Like most women are like, I don't even know how to get a lawyer. Like, I don't know what like you need this paperwork. And then the paperwork's going back and forth. So hard to read. It's so hard to under. It's a lot,

you know. I mean, she has friends. She's got you guys. She's got the show. Yeah. Maybe now she'll get her. I don't know. I think if I was going to mom her, the best thing for Jen would be for Jen to be on her own, learn to stand on her own two feet and navigate through this by herself, get to know herself a little bit better, work on herself more, be OK with being alone and then move on. But that's obviously great advice from somebody who's on the other side of it and can look back clearly. She's in the middle of it. So we wish her the best. Yeah. I'm curious for you being on the other side of it. I feel like a big topic of conversation after recent episodes was this balance of how much do you leave past relationships in the past versus how much do you talk to your current partner and give them context for some of the stuff that you're going through, some of the stuff that triggers you? And so how do you and Travis navigate that in terms of like your own discerning what to share with him, what to work through with him and what stuff you kind of want to work through as an

individual? Well, I think, first of all, the biggest, maybe one of the biggest factors of whether you should talk about the past or the present is if your past stays with you forever. And my past does. Like my ex is a part of my life forever. So not talking about my ex is not really an option. Also, like I truly believe that that was like one of the reasons why I loved Travis because we both went through really shitty divorces and we could lean on each other and we could talk about everything. I think it's case by case, person to person. And I think like Travis is not insecure and he is not threatened and he is always about making things better. And that's where his mindset is. So that is a good platform and a good person to go to because of who he is. If you're dating somebody who is sensitive to that or a little bit more jealous because that's one of their personal issues or whatever,

you probably don't want to touch that, right? Or you have to go to therapy. I would maybe have a therapist in the room when you're talking about some of that stuff. But for me in my relationship, I have always, I was just talking to Trav about this because I think this is actually very interesting. I since day one, we've always dumped on each other. He came into my life at a time that was like after one of the most horrible

life experiences, events of my life that I went through with my ex. So not talking about that really wasn't an option. Plus, my whole life is on TV. So I think it would be really weird if I was talking to like America about all of these things and not my partner. We're just like you. I think your partner is the person who really, truly should be there for you through thick and thin, through everything, through all of your emotional ups and downs and be able to help you reestablish balance. And your relationship should be the balance. reestablish balance and your relationship should be the balance. Do you guys at least give each other the space to say, I'm here for you, babe, but like, could I just not hear about this right now without getting defensive? Because I'm assuming at some point it might just be like, hey, I do want to be the person you talk to, but like, oh my God, can we not talk about them right

now? Yeah. I think you learn how, like when is a good time and when not. Like if he's already super stressed or dealing with something else, then I probably don't want to like add on to that. But I think it depends, right? They say that people, that relationships are supposed to be 50-50, but they never are, right?

And they say you have to balance each other out. So like if it's a day- But then they are simultaneously, but they should be over the course. You should equal 100%. Yes. Right. So like if he's at a day where he's at 30%, I'm going to be like, let's talk about Matt.

This is a great time, you know. But honestly, also, I am not very I'm saying that because that sounds good. But I'm also really not good at that. Like I'm very in the moment emotional. So honestly, there are definitely days that he's at 30 and I I'm like, I'm just gonna dump right on you again. But like, Travis is such an incredible human, that he can carry it, you know. And I think that was the first time that Heather said that, though, that I actually was mindful of that. Like, I thought I never even thought about it until she said it. And I was like, Wait a minute, maybe I shouldn't be you

know, and I did think about it for a minute. That's why I wasn't mad at her for that. She was there. She was being a friend to me in the car. She was giving me advice that she truly believed. So in the car, I was like, okay, you're here for me in this moment. That's okay. Maybe that is something I have to look at. But that also wasn't like the top priority thing on the list. Honestly, it made sense when she delivered that advice. It's just like, you know, but everyone's relationship is different. And yeah, you know, the next night I got pissed at her. I honestly didn't understand why he got so mad

because bringing it up at the table like that so casually after she didn't check on me at all like that night, the day after and then to revisit that to me felt like, oh, wait a minute. This is something now that you're trying to make a thing that you've been talking.

It went from, oh, you're my friend who gave me advice to me feeling like you were just talking shit about my relationship with these other women. And now you've all come up with this thing that I still have feelings for my ex. And I got extremely defensive about that because it's not about that. That makes sense. It just pissed me off. Yeah, no, sometimes I just get pissed i hear you i want to go back to to the housewives but i do want to ask have you seen the uh miranda lambert drama oh that with the selfie yes yeah what are your thoughts like for okay do you either of you want to update our audience i think most people know about it

because i find it to be wild so i also updated it this morning because the fan themselves has shared their experience. But Miranda Lambert stopped a show to call out two fans taking a selfie. And Miranda said, quote, These girls are worried about their selfie and not listening to the song. It's pissing me off a little bit. Sorry, I don't like it at all. We're here to hear some country music tonight. I'm singing some country damn music. And she stopped mid-song.

It wasn't like in between songs. She was 20 seconds in to a new song and just did the whole like, stop. Okay, how old are these women? The fan said, it felt like I was back at school with a teacher scolding me for doing something wrong and telling me to sit down in my place. I feel like she was determined to make us look like we were young, immature, and vain, but we were just grown women in our 30s to 60s trying to take a picture.

So it wasn't even like a couple 21-year-olds? No, and the fan noted that it took 30 seconds at the most to snap a photo with her friends and they took the picture quickly and were going to sit back down before miranda caught them who gives a shit if it took 12 fucking minutes maybe they wanted to take a selfie to like memorialize like you know the carousel of photos that you post on instagram where there's going to be a photo of miranda like he's singing her song and then there's going to be a photo of Miranda like he's singing her song and then there's going to be a selfie of the you and the girls in the seats having a good time like you're Miranda they are fucking marketing

your goddamn concert and they want to be like had so much fun at the concert last night like Miranda popped off and like what the fuck Miranda yeah that is I totally think that's is anyone siding with Miranda? I'm not siding with her.

I guess the only way to kind of like in her head justify it was like the straw that broke the camel's back. Like if she feels like as a performer, like she's trying so hard to go out there and she's on a rigorous tour schedule and she wants to give people like a good show. And she wants, you know, she wants this feeling of like connection with fans. And it's like the difference between being in the studio and actually getting to see people and have them hear her music live. I mean, she does always have the option, though, then to pre-screen who she wants to come, make significantly less amounts of money,

and then do it for pure entertainment value. I read something recently about Billy Joel. Wait, please don't say anything bad about Billy because he's my king. No, it's wonderful. You'll enjoy that. It's to your point that apparently, and I haven't verified this.

I just went to his concert with Stevie Nicks. I took so many selfies. I saw this on the internet. So maybe it's a rumor. Maybe it's true. But the rumor is, is that Billy Joel is kind of fed up with what he presumes is a bunch of rich people who can afford first row tickets like the first two rows so he doesn't sell them to your point

he takes less money he doesn't sell the first couple rows of tickets and he has his people whoever they are go up into the nosebleeds and find the diehard fans and brings them down to the first two rows so they can enjoy billy joe that's like taylor swift she has her mom go through the stadium and pick people yeah yeah and it's just like you you're gonna make less money you know you're not gonna be able to sell those tickets for a couple grand or whatever you know and so he chooses to have the fans that he wants in the front row. And they're also probably taking selfies still,

being like, oh my God, Billy Joel! Yeah, they're like, who are you shooting in the front row? You know? But like, calm the fuck down, Miranda. Seriously, she got to settle down a little bit. That's aggressive. And those people paid to have an experience

and whatever they want that experience to be should really be up to them. She's going to do her job regardless. And as long as she's not like taking a cell phone to the face, which seems to be an interesting trend lately, you know, where everybody is just chucking. What's the trend? There's been several performers lately who have been getting beat, but she's not the only one. There was also. Well, Harry got like kicked in the nuts, didn't he? And there was someone else.

Bebe Rexha with the phone, someone threw the ashes at Pink. Kelsey Ballerini had the friendship bracelet in her eye. Yeah. I mean, they're getting, people are now just

starting to do it to do it. Yeah, that I disagree with. I mean, if you're just taking a selfie, Miranda, you could be getting balls thrown at your face. Right? Seriously. Yeah. I don't seriously yeah well also i'm seeing something about bb and text messages with a shitty boyfriend what's what's this all about yeah the alleged text from her boyfriend commenting on her weight

um the message says i never said you weren't beautiful i never said i didn't love you in fact i said how beautiful you are and how much i loved you. But I always said I would be honest with you and your face was changing. So I told you it was. That was the conversation we were having. And you asked because I care. Would you rather I lied to you? You gained 35 pounds. Obviously, you gained weight and your face changes. Should I pretend it didn't happen? And that's OK. Come on. I gained three pounds and you called me chubs and fat doesn't mean you don't love me. Interesting. What do we think about this about this I mean he could have definitely left out the you gained 35 pounds like why are we being so specific a couple questions how do we feel about these this trending pattern of people releasing text messages of like mid-relationship conversations that you know certainly lack

context not that there's ever like but listen i've been in several relationships i'm currently in a relationship where my partner says to me promise me promise me you will never let me look like this or promise me you will be honest with me if I change X, Y, and Z. And I'm always like, yeah, sure, babe. Don't let me get fat. I do that to Travis too. Not even necessarily the word fat, but that does happen in relationships. Her boyfriend is claiming that conversation happened. What do we think about having conversations with your partner and where do you draw the line between just giving mean feedback and trying to hold each other accountable are they still together

they're still together though they're still together and she's like let me see over this the Jonah Hill thing I don't I think that's not good I just think well he sounds like a dick that's for sure I think he's wrong but I don't agree with her releasing those text messages because I I agree with a lot of what you said about that

that it's not it's misuse and it's not it really didn't seem like it seems like he is wrong and he needs to make an adjustment there. But I don't think he was intentionally trying to be abusive. And I think there really is that putting that out like that's almost abusive because now Jonah Hill is being a hit. There's's you know internet trolling yeah without being able to have his own narrative and that's and now people who are clicking the you know and now the clickbait and all that is totally highlighting him in a way

now everybody reading it is already has a preconceived uh you know you know viewpoint because of what she put out there just seems unfair and it seems like what does personal gain does she get from that except now i know who she is and i didn't before you know so it seems a little yeah i do think it's an important conversation to be had about like therapy talk and how like about you know we've talked a lot about the conversation it created around therapy she could have just had that discussion without completely out of left field, like putting somebody, you know, and you don't know, like now he maybe he did do work and he did work on himself and he did move on and he is in a new relationship. Maybe he's with a woman with children and how that affects everybody else. It just seems like we're at this place where we're so quick and okay with releasing anything without

any consideration of anybody else their feelings and kind of forgetting maybe the role we played or things that we have said in relationships or things that we might have had to apologize yeah as well yeah but yeah amanda ellie what do you guys think about bb releasing this and her thoughts because again that's a very common conversation between couples i think it's the release of the text more than anything i did look it up it says they've been going strong since 2020 so they're still together i mean i don't think it should be released i think that should have stayed private i do think it's like the text say i don't love that at the end of the text the one that i read the like come on i gained three pounds and he called me chubs and fat. Oh, but those were their actual text to each other.

Yeah. Oh, that was the conversation. Okay. Yeah. I mean, why did she release it? She must have been pissed off that day. Yeah. But I don't know.

I'm like, it just doesn't seem like it's probably the healthiest if you're gaining three pounds and suddenly you're calling each other chubby and fat. Yeah. Yeah. I don't love that. They both probably have to work on the way they speak to each other yeah i think we've lost the uh art of understanding that when it comes to relationships they're hard and messy and we sometimes have to apologize to our partners and we say things that we don't mean and we sometimes say things that can be hurtful

and that's not okay no but it does happen most of the time that we do that we're saying them to be hurtful you know what i mean in the moment and and then you feel and then you regret it and you feel bad and you have to apologize and move work on that and move forward and hope that what you've said isn't damaging enough to create too much of a problem. who was it who was it in the group that were lying to heather they were clear i love how heather approached it she's like were you being rude about me i loved her line of questioning because it wasn't about like were you being rude they were clearly being fucking rude and they were like well we weren't like talking no were you being rude they were clearly being fucking right it was like so obvious and you called them out for for them i I do want to ask you, though, where do you think you draw the line between standing up for your friends and starting drama? Well, I think that that I I I yeah, I get what you're saying. Like, I know that going into that conversation with Heather when we were shoveling this shit, that this could potentially cause drama. But to me, it feels worth it when I really feel like my true my friend has her eyes closed to something isn't seeing this accurately., I felt confident enough that Heather was completely closing her eyes on this.

And I'm like, I didn't get it. And I'm like, you're going to look dumb. And like, you're going to let you why? And like, also, why are you so mad at Taylor, a woman who you barely know? Why do you care what she thinks about your career, but you're not mad at all at Tamara, who's supposed to be your friend. If that was like Emily and Taylor, I'll tell you right now, I wouldn't give a fuck about what Taylor said about my career, but I would be pissed at Emily. Yeah. No, I hear you. And that was my mindset.

How often when you guys watch this shit back, are you guys calling up, be like, motherfucker? Or do you save it for the reunions? Oh, yeah. It's hard to navigate through that because you are really supposed to save a lot yes for that but I'll tell you which we appreciate because we love a messy reunion yeah totally who doesn't yeah that's what it's for it's like savage city in there but are

you guys like fighting via text and calling each other up and be like what the fuck she texted me right after the first episode aired and she was like I'm disappointed in you and your comments that you made and I was like hmm but I was like I was like yeah I was like, I'm disappointed in you and your comments that you made. And I was like, I was like, yeah, I was like, well, just wait. If you're pissed now, we're pretty much not friends anymore. But then I think that she I said, you know, do you want to talk about it or whatever? And then I didn't really hear from her. And then more episodes came out and she reached back out

to me. And I think she felt really bad, you know, and she actually like apologized. And I was like, Heather, look, we have to just agree that we I care about her. I actually really do care about Heather and I respect her. And I was like, you care about me. I care about you. We care about our friendship. We have to try as hard as we can to not let it affect us and to be in the space that we're in now. And it's really hard to do. But I'm like, also, if something else comes up that it bothers you, let's just be open to the idea that like, we can hard to do. But I'm like, also, if something else comes up that it bothers you, let's just be open to the idea that like, we can talk about it. But like, we can still be friendly. We don't have to have an ender friendship. Like, look, the bottom line is this show

is really what happens in friendships, right? Where you have a group of girls, sometimes you get pissed off at one of your friends, and then you go to your other friend and you talk shit about that friend. It's all in the spirit, though, of venting, trying to move past things and let it go. Usually, you know, depends on how much you like that person or don't. Right. But that's real life. But the difference is then you those people don't sit down three months later and then see all that venting.

Yeah, that's tough, you know, but but the job is to be real. And the reality is, if I'm in this group and then Heather or Tamara or somebody pisses me off, I'm going to go to my friend Emily and I'm probably going to talk shit about them. And like, if I don't do that, that's not me being real and authentic. And then like, there's no show, you know? Well, we appreciate your authenticity. Just out here for the people.

Well, it's time for texting office hours, Gina. You down to help? I think we do have some friend drama yes i thought this would be perfect to get gina's opinion on to help uh help some solve some friend drama are you down for giving some unprofessional dating advice or friendship advice amazing let's get into it unlicensed yeah if we fuck up your life it's not our fault it's if you listened all allegedly all right let's bring them up

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alerted if anything looks off. People, stop throwing away your money. Cancel unwanted subscriptions and manage your expenses the easy way by going to rocketmoney.com slash V-I-A-L-L. That's rocketmoney.com slash V-I-A-L-L. Rocketmoney.com slash V-I-A-L-L. How's it going? Hi, my name is Jen. I'm 25, and I'm fighting with my long-term best friend. I'm trying to see if she's being protective or manipulative.

Okay, what is the thing that you are trying to figure out whether she's being protective or manipulative over? What's going on in your life that she is inserting her opinion on? Basically everything. Where I live, who I'm talking to, what I'm doing with my daughter, what I'm doing for work. Okay. All right. And what makes you think she's being protective and what makes you think she's being manipulative? I think she's being protective because she tells me that she really cares about me and she wants the best for me. I think that she's being manipulative because the way that she's doing it is super negative. Everything about my life decisions, she just talks about them negatively

and kind of controlling. What is her biggest critique? Well, probably with dating, just like who I'm talking to and then where I live because I'm so far from my family and I have a daughter. So she thinks that it just isn't the best decision for us. And why do you live where you live? I moved out here for school and then I got pregnant. So now I kind of, I'm kind of have to stay here, but I also really like where I live. Okay. So you like where you live. Okay. Love it. Great. So that's really all. And you're finishing your education. Yeah. I just graduated actually last year, December. Okay. Congratulations. But at the end of the day, you like where you live. That's what matters. Well, that settles that. Yeah.

You can live wherever the fuck you want, right? Yeah. I mean, she misses you and I'm sure, and are you building, do you think you're building a healthy support system in your community? That's what I'm working on. And so the last time that we talked, I was starting to tell her about all that, how I was going to a mom group, how I was going to the gym. And I just felt like I was trying to convince her about all that, how I was going to a mom group, how I was going to the gym. And I just felt like I was like trying to convince her when it was the truth. And she just still didn't like really believe me. Now, what about your dating life is she is the most critical

about? Well, she doesn't like my daughter's dad. She also just doesn't like the people that I talk to. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Thanks. Exactly. And she still talks about him as if we are together. Like she tells me all the time, how did I not see the red flags with him? And I'm like, that's so pointless now. We're not together. Like, why bring this up? Do you say that to her? Yes.

Well, in a nice way. What do you mean in a nice way? I can be confrontational, but very nice. Like I just say well honestly you know i don't know how i didn't see the red flags but i'm trying to do better now and i'm doing the best i can i think you need to be more direct i know but i'm scared yeah well why are you scared of you're a single mom who can finish her education and is raising a baby on her own i mean you should be proud of

yourself really but also like great think about like listen to what you're saying right you're like i'm trying my best and blah blah so if i'm someone giving advice right and i hear i'm trying my best or whatever and i think i'm right and i And I think you're wrong. That's not me hearing. I'm not interested in your feedback. I'm happy with my decisions. Also, this isn't helpful. All you're really doing is hurting my feelings. You're not saying any of that. You're just saying I'm doing my best. And she's thinking, well, I'm, I'm the, I'm the friend who can be open and honest with you. I've known you forever. So I'm just going to keep letting you know. So like on this particular issue, there's nothing you can fucking do. You had the kid, you're not dating him. So the fact that she keeps bringing it up and throwing your past mistakes in your face, because that's what she's doing. And maybe she doesn't even see it. So like sometimes you got

to be honest with your friends and you got to let them know how they're actually making you feel. Because right now there's a disconnect between you're not communicating with her, how her words are actually making you feel. You don't want to hurt her feelings. So you're just like kind of being nice about it. It's like, well, I'm doing my best and blah, blah, blah. You're not saying, hey, babe, listen, to be honest, like, what are you trying to gain from critiquing my past choices?

First of all, at the end of the day, what I got out of it was a beautiful baby and I couldn't be happier with my kids. So he might suck, but at the end of the day, I'm happy with my choices. Also, I'm not fucking with the guy. So why do you keep critiquing my past decisions? Why do I want to talk to someone who's constantly making me feel bad about myself? I'm open to like constructive feedback about future choices but what the fuck am I supposed to do about this exactly that's how I feel and that's why in these texts I kind of felt like I said that but not like in the nicest way possible because I was nervous to talk to her about all this but I know that I I knew that I wanted to so you're asking her for advice. Is that right? Because so basically I sent her a text

like a screenshot of what my baby's dad like sent me. And she was just like, why does he think he can text you things like this? And then he asked and then she asked if I was mad at her because I hadn't been like talking to her for after she came and visited, like I kind of stopped talking to her for a little bit. And that was just because I was nervous to have a conversation with her. Does she have kids? No, she's married. No, I would say my first advice would be you're looking to the wrong person for advice about this particular matter because she has no connection with it. And she doesn't really know any of it. If I was you, there's like a lot of really good, you know, divorce and people and like even on Instagram, there's like a lot of like co-parenting moms and stuff like that, that you can you can tap into that environment and plug

in there. And I feel like you will get so much more out of that because I think a lot of the problem is like finding the right places to get the right advice and this clearly is not the right place for for that yeah i mean don't even like share that i mean why well you know you're not going to get back anything you want like it's not going to be productive i'm kind of 50 50 on that you know like i think it's great to get advice from people who have like real life experience but I also think as your best friend she can offer you advice she just has to like recognize she's not she's got to recognize that there are certain things that she doesn't have experience on right yeah so there's a balance or you could just say well I mean I don't know I wouldn't I just it

doesn't seem like she's positive ever about the ex in the situation she's obviously affected by it she's listened to you bitch and complain about this man forever. And now you procreated with him and she obviously hates him and hates him for you. And her feelings are about that. And that situation are always going to spill out on to the advice that she's trying to give you, because there's no way she can disconnect from that. It seems, you know, if she can. Great. But she's obviously putting her own emotion on the advice she's giving.

And that's not necessarily helpful for you you know i just think you always have to think about like ultimately what are you trying to get out of this like a positive whatever and if you're not getting it there you can tell her but if you tell her and tell her and tell her how many times do you tell her before you just got to kind of give it give it up how how did she respond to these text messages because yeah you you kind of mentioned her that it's just kind of hard to hear her constantly you know talk about where you live now versus where she wants you to live and yada yada how did she respond to that well at the end

she never replied to me the last message i sent she never responded and this was like maybe a couple months ago now and she sent me a snapchat after that and then unsent it and was like, oops, didn't mean to send that. Ha ha. And I just didn't reply to that. So the last message you sent, you write, no, I completely understand. You want the best for me and I love you so much and I appreciate that. It's really just that I have so much going on and things I'm working through that any

negative comments or things that could be taken that way are just too much for me because I'm doing my best. I was going to bring these things up to you in another time, but just wasn't sure how to because I was nervous. I love you lots and don't want you to think I'm mad at you. A lot of comments are normally sarcastic and joking, but they add up for me. And she just didn't respond to that. Yeah. I mean, listen, I think you've done a decent job. Maybe you just check in because, yeah, listen, this is about communicating clear expectations. People often confuse expectations and boundaries. Again, you can set expectations to other people and that you're looking out for me, but every once in a while, it seems like you're putting your needs of missing me over my happiness. Because I love where I live.

So when you comment on that, it just hurts my feelings. I'm always gonna appreciate you looking out for me when it comes to my love life and dating life, but I do need you to trust that I actually, like, am a capable woman, you know, I'm doing a lot of great things. I went to school. I've been a single mom. Like that's not easy to do. So like, it would be nice for once in a while for you as much as you care about me to pat me on the back now and then. And that's an area of your life that you feel confident about. Right. So I feel like she should be able to communicate that like that's an area that like you feel good about and you don't you have other

areas that you don't feel good about necessarily so like you don't want her to harp on like take away from something that's a positive it's like you're trying to bring everything back up and maybe like also what do you think about like the people that set the tone i'm like so impressed by those people that they tell you what they need out of the conversation where you have it like they say in your relationship i'm am i looking to vent or am i looking for advice or whatever like maybe instead of telling her what she's doing wrong after she's giving you this advice when you get before you start the conversation you tell her maybe what you're looking for yeah or have a conversation about her like Maybe she wants to hear more. Maybe she's getting way too involved in your life. Maybe it could be a good reset to just ask her about her issue.

If this dynamic isn't working right now and it's upsetting for both of you, I'm sure she would appreciate feeling checked in on, feeling loved. She misses you. And that's not to say that you're not doing that and you have every right to vent to your friend and to have a support system. But if right now that's a little tricky, I think maybe expressing a lot of interest and care about her life and having her doing the talking and you may be doing more of the supporting and advice giving could be a good flip. I think that's also like an interesting area of our friendship because she is very she's a very private person. I'm probably the only person that she does share that kind of stuff with. But i don't really know how to give her advice on that because i feel like it's such a touchy topic just anything like all you can do

is ask how's it going what's new if yeah if she listen if she doesn't want advice she's not going to receive it how long have you known her her like her junior high oh junior high yes you guys are like yeah like 10 years but for this situation, here's what I would do. Stop texting with her about this shit. It's going nowhere. You know, I'd call her ass up, FaceTime her. And I'd call her up. Don't call, FaceTime her.

And then say, hey, you never responded to my last message. I just figured I'd give you a call. No, and then you say it as a joking matter and just be like, listen, I just wanted to call you because, listen, you're my best fucking friend. I've known you forever. So, like, listen, I just wanted to call you because listen, you're my best fucking friend. I've known you forever. So like, let's just talk. And listen, I, and then as always, if you've ever listened to this podcast, always lead with a compliment. Yes. Like, first of all, I love you. I know you have my best interest in mind. You're the type of friend that I can always go to. You're the type of friend I can always trust to be honest with me. And honestly, I appreciate that so much. However, every once in a while blah blah blah

blah and like just going forward i just it would be nice if you would like recognize some of the things i am doing well and pat me on the back because it just seems like recently when we talk you're just full of like critiques and criticisms honestly, I value your opinion as a friend. And for the person whose opinion I value, all I'm hearing is negative shit from you. And I know I'm doing a good job in other aspects. I'm not perfect and I always want your feedback, but I need you to throw a little love my way. So lead by example, be the friend that you want her to be to you. So reach out to her, pay her some compliments,

let her know all the great ways in which she is being a good friend and all the ways of a friend that you appreciate. I love it when you have to like call a friend that you need help and advice from, but you have to spend this time like kissing their ass first, but like, you're in this spot now. So you're,

but yeah, I do agree. And I think that also, you know, it's not the worst thing to be like look before you're saying she delivers all this negative stuff like this isn't about you being negative this is maybe even i recognize this is about me being super sensitive right now because i'm going through like a transitional phase and i don't really know what i'm doing and I feel a little bit out of control and out of bounds and like maybe what I'm so how I'm interpreting it even maybe I am being hypersensitive but and I'm not saying you are I'm just saying sometimes when you just kind of lay on it a little bit it gets that person to turn a little bit and then they start

to feel a little bit more it's a manipulation I'm not saying it's not but like it gets them to see it a little worried in this particular situation of you saying you're sensitive because I don't want her to jump on that. Be like, yeah, you are. That's okay. No, I know. Why is that bad? Because I want Jen to show her friend.

Strength. Yes. Yeah. Okay. And I want her to kind of like set a new expectation of, hey, this i love about you this is what i need from you yeah because i think right now they have this friendship dynamic that jen plants this seed of like well maybe maybe i'm being like a little sensitive and her friends like yeah well maybe you are you know like i think you know what i'm saying i think she is jumping at these like i lack

for a better word like these weaknesses that you show and she's not giving you credit for your strength so i want you to demonstrate more strength with your friend and i want you to like set an expectation of the type of friendship that you need from her and you just fucking tell her yeah this is what i need from you as a friend and i want you to i want you to meet these expectations i love you so much your your friendship is so important to me sometimes we just like that's the thing just tell someone hey i need you and but this is how i need you but i need you and if you if you if some if you feel needed by someone you're like well how how how can i meet your needs and you're like i'm glad you asked by doing this you know and so i think you just need to reset your expectations with your friend that's all and i love you do it over

facetime enough to ask you that. Yeah. And you demand answers. When someone doesn't text you back that you think, call their fucking ass up. You've known her since junior high. You don't need a permission. Call her mom. This is not some guy.

Call her mom. Yes. This is not some guy you went on two dates with. You don't want to sound pushy. You call her ass up and be like, why don't you fucking respond? This is important to you. Yeah. Yeah.

This is important to me. This, this is important to me. This isn't something that I'm just going to let go like a ghosting situation. Yeah. I mean, I see that. Yeah. If that and then you just have to be ready and prepared for what might be on the other side of it. But she'll show you who she is.

Right. So I think if you do show a little bit of strength and you lay it down, you tell her what she needs and then she has the opportunity to respond. And if she responds with, wow, like I hear you and I want, then you'll know she's really a great friend. And if she doesn't respond that way, then you know, she's not, she's not that person. And then you can move on and not feel bad and not like meander about it. Just like move on. I think this is asking her for advice. I think it's more than television. I think, you know, love and strength. Think of love first. I'm going to lead. You're going to lead with love. Call her up.

I love you. I love you. You're great. You're amazing. This is what I love about you. You're great. Also, by the way, you've been pissing me off kind of thing, you know, and then end with love.

It's a lot of male energy. That's a very man way of handling it. And I agree with it. I think that sometimes that is a good, like, just get in there, get direct, stand up for yourself. I don't like putting gender labels on it. I think we can all, you know. It is a little though. I mean, we are who we yourself. I don't like putting gender labels on it. I think we can all- It is a little though.

I mean, we are who we are. I mean, it's not a bad thing. I think that it's more direct. I agree with you. I just think we live in a time where we, I don't want to- I'm not man shaming you. That's okay. I'm actually man boosting you.

Thank you. That's something I like about the men's. No, I just want everyone to feel like they can be direct when the time calls for it. Yeah, I think you're right. Because you have the right to not tiptoe. Don't scare away. You've known this person forever. It's just like such a waste of time to tiptoe around being direct with your closest friends.

Can you do that, Jen? I think that I am like normally a direct person, but I think that since I've known her for so long and since her opinion does matter to me, that's why I'm so nervous because I don't want to lose her. But you could say that to her too. That sounds great.

Well, yeah, but to- Say that to her. But to Gina's point, if the only reason you're friends is because you are placating her and only telling things that she can handle, that's not a real friendship. That's not adding value in your life.

It could be a friendship, but then you have to put that friendship in the right category, right? Which is when I go home, I get to say this is my middle school friend. I've known her forever, but don't go to her for advice and don't tell her your deepest, darkest shit.

And because it's not in your best interest and it doesn't serve you well. But if you can directly try to reroute it and she does change and work with you, then that is, and you should give her that opportunity. She deserves that opportunity to rise to the occasion.

Give her a shot. Yeah, I like that. All right, was this helpful? That was helpful. I'm still nervous, but I can do it. All right. Well, we want an update. We're demanding an update.

So I want to, after you FaceTime, I want to know how this conversation went. And so please do us a favor and let us know. Okay, I will. We will be following up. All right, best of luck. Thank you.

All right, take care. Gina, this was so much fun. I had a blast. I could talk for hours, but I know you have to go. I could too, yeah. Please let my audience know where they can find you. All the great things you're doing. Plug away.

Yes. All my social platforms are at Gina Kirshenheider, which is incredibly easy to spell. I know. Actually, I have to say, Nick, you because I've heard you kind of like saying that I'm going to come on the last couple of days. You say my last name so well and so effortlessly. It's not without mistakes. It was great, though.

We edit the show. Whatever practice you did, you really nailed it there. It's not without mistakes. It was great, though. We added the show. Whatever practice you did, you really nailed it there. Can I ask you one more question? Yeah. I know you're from Long Island. Yeah. Do you have like Midwest relatives? Because you seem to have a bit of a Midwest twang in your voice. And there's a bit of a don't you know in there. I'm like, does this person have cousins from Minnesota? I know what you're saying. And I don't know where it comes from. But I've always been like that.

I mean, I'm from the Midwest. So we love. But I'm just like, where is she from? That's why you're so nice. You're like a good Midwest boy. No, I know. I'm straight up from Long Island. I'm very Long Island.

I don't know what that is. Every once in a while, I know I say dog. I don't know why. But then nine times out of 10, I'll be like dog, dog, dog. But then sometimes I'll be like dog. I don't know what that is. Every once in a while I know I say, like I say dog. I don't know why, but then like nine times out of ten I'll be like dog, dog, dog, but then sometimes I'll be like dog. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. They have to give me subtitles on the show a lot. No, I mean, I totally understand you, but I'm just like...

I don't know. It's just the way I talk. Maybe it's like being in California now for so long, it's like a little bit confused. I'm confused. Alright, that's fine. That's fine. I mean, like I... No one can understand me. I get the words out, you know? It's like a little bit confused. I'm confused. All right. That's fine. I mean, no one can understand me. I get the words out, you know. It's been a pleasure.

Thank you. Thank you for coming. I had a great time. This was super fun. Also, Gina, where can people find your podcast? Yeah,

well, anywhere where you get your podcast. It's Orange Country. We release new episodes every Wednesday. There you go. Would love you to swing through and come hang out

with me and Shane McAnally as my co-host. Amazing. And yeah, it's a good time. Sounds like a blast. Can't wait. All right. Well, thanks for listening, guys. Don't forget to send in those questions at asknickatthevilefiles.com for all things Ask Nick. Don't forget, we have another episode of Better Date Than Never live tonight at 9 p.m. Eastern. It's going to be a blast. Don't miss it. Check it out. All right.m. Eastern. It's going to be a blast. Don't miss it. Check it out. All right. Bye.