The Viall Files - E62 Closure with Kaitlyn Bristowe

Episode Date: November 20, 2019

Kaitlyn Bristowe joins Nick in the studio for the most anticipated interview yet. Kaitlyn opens up about her relationship struggles after The Bachelorette, Nick and Kaitlyn share some never-before-heard stories, and Kaitlyn talks about her current relationship with Jason. We hope you enjoy this walk down Bachelor memory lane. Get your Viall Files Merch at http://viallfiles.com! THANKS TO OUR SPONSORS: THE CEREAL SCHOOL: https://thecerealschool.com/viall ROOT INSURANCE: https://www.joinroot.com BEST FIENDS: Download now https://download.bestfiends.com NOOM: https://www.noom.com/viall See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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You're crazy. What is up, everybody? Welcome to another exciting episode of The Vile Files. I am joined by my trusty producer, Rachelle. Hello. This could be argued as the episode of The Vile Files everyone's been anticipating since we started the show. Caitlin Bristow is our guest. I know you guys probably, hopefully, did listen to Caitlin's episode of her live show yesterday, of which I was the guest guest we recorded what you're about to listen to before we did the live show we're mixing it all up but last night we were last night a lot of fun live show her fun exciting her fans are amazing her vinos they love her i'm actually just was very impressed with how like uh like just in love with her they are but like in a way like she's truly had an impact on their lives and it was i was very

impressed um this episode coming up i think you're really going to enjoy caitlin and i really reminisce about the past and what i found most fascinating is how much caitlin and i related to each other which i thought was really fascinating we share some very special moments and just it was just kind of fun to um kind of just acknowledge um you know our history we never we hadn't talked in four and a half years but it seems like you guys it seemed like no time kind of picked up right where we left off in a great friend way and uh caitlin tells this fun story that happened at carly and evan's wedding back in the day um and it's it's a fun story and i think you'll enjoy it but it really made me feel

good and in no way was anything but friendly and an acknowledgement of what we had of two people who now are at different points of their lives and it was just you know you hear about people in relationships and they break up right and we talk a little we just mentioned this on Caitlin's episode but you know breakups can be messy and you feel like you have these feelings and sometimes angst and sometimes even feels of anger and hate but it's always nice to be in a place where you can still acknowledge the past like you had something meaningful in your life. Right, this person existed.

And still like, and it's nothing more than that. You're still friends and you still have respect and care about the person and you can still say, you know what? Cheers to what we had. And I feel like the story Caitlin tells at Carly and Evan's wedding, to me, it was meaningful in that regard.

And so I hope you enjoy listening to it. We'll get to the episode. If you haven't noticed noticed if you're watching our live show we now have some merch merch baby t-shirts are finally out we'll have mugs t-shirts hoodies some slogans we've said on the show what are you wearing i'm wearing i don't really like you i'm just bored it's a fun t-shirt you can have for yourself to remind yourself that sometimes we do stupid things when we're born sometimes we hang out with people we don't really want to hang out with. We're just bored. And it's okay.

Or text that ex. Text that ex. Rochelle. I'm wearing my favorite. Famously. T-shirt. I don't respect myself. Now, for those of you who haven't listened before, we do our ethnic questions.

We get people asking a lot of dating questions. And sometimes we do things that like if you wouldn't realize it would seem as though we don't respect ourselves if you're going back to that guy going back all the time if you yourself do that maybe this t-shirt is a friendly reminder maybe it's a nice gift to give your friend to say you should but maybe you don't and so when you're about to do something stupid put this t-shirt on look in the mirror and don't do what you i'm giving this to my friends who I'm just tired of giving the same advice to.

Yeah, just like, fuck it, just put this fucking t-shirt on. Anyways, before we get to this episode, I just want to remind people, Natural Habits, I know Caitlin and I have been supporting each other's companies this week. Natural Habits makes an amazing Christmas gift. I would say a stocking stuffer

because it fits in a stocking, but it's also just a great, nice gift. If you're looking to have a healthy way of freshening indoor air, if you have trouble with headaches, anxiety, you just want to relax better, check out our website, our reviews. I'll listen to our customer stories. I'm going to be doing this same sale that we're going to do on Black Friday weekend, just because I know a lot of Caitlin listeners are listening to this episode. For the next 48 hours, use code VINE for 40% off your entire order of free shipping, 40% off. We will only have this sale again on Black Friday, so

for the next 48 hours, get a very wonderful Christmas gift for yourself, a loved one, diffusers, 40% off, your roll-ons, USDA, USDA, I can't even talk, USDA approved certified organic essential oils.

The best essential oils on the market. Check us out, nh oils.com. If you want your merch, you go to vilefiles.com. We got a new website. Check out our website. Check out our Instagram. We're linked to the, not the vilefiles, just vilefiles.com for all our merch. Anything else, Rochelle?

I know we're just trying to get it out of the way because you're so excited to get this episode. I know we are. I'm just proud of you and Caitlin. I think it's great. I had a really great week with Caitlin, both filming some content that you guys got to see, her live show, and then this. It was just a therapeutic week.

We now follow each other on Instagram. I mean, this is what I wish could happen with my ex maybe someday maybe someday and listen this was four years in the making so and it took a lot it took a couple relationships to end and some new relationships to unfold

you'll hear more about it in the upcoming episode but shit takes time and it's always nice to be able to to let shit go and look at someone that you once felt very fond about and maybe had some

angst and anger against but to look and say you know what I'm glad we're friends yeah so without further ado Caitlin Bristow Caitlin thanks for coming

oh my gosh cheers it's 9 well actually you were late so it's 9.30 a.m. Calling me out already. And we're drinking Caitlin's new wine. Yeah, Spade and Sparrows. It's the first time I'm having it. Okay, so.

Hold on, ready? I'm scared, but you have to give your honest reaction. I'm not a big rosé guy. Oh. I'm drinking the rosé. Well, then that's a bad choice. That was a bad call. It's good i love

it great exactly how i pictured your reaction to be it's good about anything it's good that's great i listen it's good we're not sure if i love something but you know if i don't i could get drunk off this well yeah it's and some reason, I don't know what it is about this wine. I have one glass and I'm like, oh, dang. And I can drink a whole bottle usually and feel nothing. And feel nothing? Nothing. Whoa.

What made you, other than the obvious, what made you want to start a wine company? Just the obvious. Just the obvious. I don't know. I've liked wine since I was like underage and my mom used to always drink it at dinner. And I was always like, oh, just give me a little sip with dinner. And I always loved the idea of cooking and drinking a glass of wine. And then I hated wine when I tried it.

I hate it. And then I just continued to drink it because I really wanted. I thought it was so cool to just have a glass of wine, force myself to like it, became part of who I was as a person. It's pretty good. I feel like I'm going to drink it. I'm going to drink the whole thing. Well, it would be rude if you didn't. Well, again, it's 9.30 in the morning. What's your favorite between the three? You have a rosé. I have a rosé, a red, and a white. What kind of red is it?

A cab. It's a cab. It's a cab. Rosé and then a pinot grigio. And I would say my favorite is actually the rosé. And I'm a red wine lover. I like a good cab. I'm going to try that. It's open for you. The label is so cute. Thank you.

I know what your reaction will be when you try the red. Why? Fine. It's good. It's good. It's good, yeah. Are you saying I'm not super enthusiastic about anything i think you're pretty like here yeah how have you been by the way it's been like four years

has it feels like it was just yesterday um yeah i've been great how have you been i've been pretty good i've been fine okay i'm fine uh yeah it's kind of funny that we just didn't talk for four years three and a half we really didn't yeah at all not once i mean we said hi we seem to talk about each other in the press i gotta say i said this to you when when you called um it definitely always bothered me the the the contentious relationship we had and i always felt like the perception was we had a very contentious relationship we had. And I always felt like the perception was we had a very contentious relationship, more than maybe even we did. But people really seem to think we are at odds with each other

or have been for some time. Right. Well, because we kind of acted that way. Yeah. I mean, I was just more... Okay, by we, I mean me. Do you agree or disagree? I agree. I think when we had that conversation on the phone, I totally owned up to everything

because I'm like, look, I was totally trying to protect a relationship and maybe it was like too far that way. I could have just, you know, dropped it, but it just, it was such a lingering thing over my head all the time from the show. And I always felt so much shame around you. Really? Yeah. And so I think I like projected these like, Oh, just because I was trying to like protect the relationship. I get that. And I can relate in the sense that when I ended up with Vanessa, she, for different reasons, but she didn't get along with Rachel and Raven. Right. But I guess we didn't last as long because I stubbornly was like, I'm sorry, I'm not going to like, that's an insane point of view.

And so like I was just like, I, you know, I would try to defend her. I definitely would not defend her the know I would try to defend her I definitely would not defend her the way she wanted me to defend her right uh and I didn't and and that was quite honestly one of our biggest uh problems early on something we fought very much so it was like why don't you have my back I'm like I do but this is an insane argument right because you still because when you also realize that you had these relationships with other people and you can't deny that. You're like, it was there and we had that and everybody saw it. But for some reason, like I get it, it must be hard for the other person. But at the end of the day, you have a choice and I chose him and he chose me and then he chose to focus on you. He just, he never let it, that was my, he's like, he didn't seem to let it go. It really was hard for him.

Yeah. It was really, really a lingering thing in the relationship. That's super unfortunate. And, but yeah, I mean, that's why we probably didn't talk for that many years. You said you felt shame around Nick? Yeah. Just because of how badly I had hurt Sean through our relationship. And so I was. Did you? Well, OK, great question.

I think I was made to feel shame, but deep down I knew I wasn't ashamed. But that's why I acted the way I did, or that's why we didn't talk, or that's why I acted the way I did or that's why we didn't talk or that's why I made little jabs here and there is because I knew he had been so hurt by it and I hated that yeah why didn't he hate why did he only hate me I wasn't gonna say a specific name but why only I still wonder that I said to him you know I was very much falling for Ben as well. And you two are great friends. I'm not sure. I'm going to say something, and I don't know if you're going to like this or hate this,

but this is how I truly feel. I think you guys saw a lot of yourselves in each other. Oh. I think there's some – I said that about Rachel and Vanessa. Yeah, you say that a lot. I don't know Sean that well, but I can see maybe why you see that. I think we can be quiet and prideful. And I think there's a lot of differences between us.

But sure, I can see that. I think maybe him more than me. Yeah. Because I always got – I think you know this story. But like Sean was the one person going in when I was like showing up. And I was like, oh, these guys are going to all hate me. I was like, there's this guy named Sean who's friends with with Ron. You guys had mutual.

And I'm like, I'll just get to know this guy. You know, I don't know who this guy was. Right. And he was literally the only one. This guy, that guy. And I kept trying with him. And then finally, I just got so like sick of it. It's already spilling wine.

But yeah, I mean, I always had regrets because like I ended up doing the very thing that he did. And then we had that fundraiser. Yeah, that was weird. I thought it was fine. Well, it was a great event and it was – I was bummed because like I felt like I was being used. What fundraiser? It was what?

Like I guess three or four months. So if Caitlin's season ended around June or July, it was what like uh i guess three or four months so if caitlin's season ended around june or july it was the next november so movember is a very we're in the month of november but it's a great cause for men's men's prostate and other men's uh issues yeah of which sean was a part of and then he reached out to me and and first he was like well hey i had this idea we should raise some money and we'll like uh we'll go against each other and you know and i'm thinking like yeah of course you want that at the time you know like you're like 800 000 followers to like my you know 100 or something and like which i ended up raising more money than him did you really yeah

oh that's hilarious uh and i was like well how we just, I think it's actually we'd make more of a story if we team up considering this rivalry. And reluctantly, he kind of agreed. And it was like pulling teeth the whole time. I was just like, do you want to do this or not? It's funny because the whole time he hated that it was like the Nick and Sean competition, but then he wanted to continue that outside

and make it look like you guys are working together. At the time, I thought it was... It was for a great cause, so you're like, wow, this is amazing. We can raise money. I was excited because I'm like, oh, we're buried. It's done. The show's done. They're together. We've moved on.

It went fine. It was fine to work with, but then it just... I guess it seemed like, obviously, we don't hang out, but the relationship I had with the two of mean, he was, it was fine to work with, but then it just, I guess it seemed like, you know, obviously we don't hang out, but the relationship I had with the two of you, which was, I didn't have one. It seemed to like keep going. And I was always just like, what the fuck, man? And I always liked it. Like this, like comment being like, did you hear what Nick or Caitlin or Sean said about Nick? And I would like be riddled with anxiety. It's so hard because every single interview we did or anybody that had any questions,

you were always the question. Which gets annoying. Which gets annoying for everybody. And we don't know how to answer because I don't know. I just was so protective of him and his feelings that I would be like, oh, what would he want me to say? Which is so weird because that's not like me. But I really, really, I truly, deeply loved him and I wanted to protect him. So it was so hard for me to. What's the fine line do you think now that you've learned this and you have this relationship with Jason, which seems

like it's going great. I've got to know Jason a little bit and I really enjoyed my time with him. And Jason seems like a guy who's like literally the opposite of Sean and not not in a Jason seems very chill about things yeah uh well I wouldn't be here if he wasn't um yeah yeah that makes sense but that's why I it's been four years like there's literally no like even Rochelle was like oh you guys seem to have like this like you know chemistry I'm like I don't know I haven't talked to Caitlin in four fucking years there's literally no, like even Rochelle was like, oh, you guys seem to have like this, like, you know, chemistry. I'm like, I don't know. I haven't talked to Caitlin in four fucking years. There's no relationship.

But, you know, having learned from that, like, what do you think the balance for people in relationships in terms of going out of your way to love someone? Like with Vanessa, it was like I wanted, I was trying so hard to protect this relationship, but I had certain things where I was like, this isn't okay. I'm not okay with this. And I can't in good conscious agree to do this because it's not healthy.

But where do you draw the line? And do you feel like you've learned from that experience going forward? Yeah, because, well, for me, everybody knows I'm outspoken. I seem to stand my ground. I'm confident in myself, but I really lost confidence in myself in that relationship. So I think the balance wasn't there where I was just too much wanting to please him and make him happy and go like, I lost who I was. And so that definitely is not the balance I want in a

relationship where I think you should build each other up and and Jason's very much so like yeah I think you should call Nick yeah I think you should go on his podcast it's great like we're all friends here I'm hanging out with Becca that must have been a wild feeling for you I was like I was like yeah you say that now is this good yeah yeah yeah but it's not it it's just, he's one of the most confident people I've ever met and not in a cocky way. He's just like, he's just a really happy go lucky, confident guy. And he's really proud of everything that I do. And I think I'm like, in return, it makes me want to build him up. And I just, I just think that's, that's where I learned from my last relationship is I don't need to take

myself down or feel shame or feel guilt for anything I've ever done just to make somebody else happy. It's about being equal in the relationship and being a team. And I just never knew it could be so easy or be that you could just have so much respect for one another. I don't think I've really ever had that in, in my life. Like my ex-boyfriend was a hockey player before that. And I just lived to make him happy. I moved everywhere and he needed to be here. So I was always just like going with what guys needed from me. Yeah. I mean, that's tough in fairness to Sean.

And I guess Vanessa, we both, you know, like it is very hard to to win in that regard because you do like you have to it sucks you know if you're in a I don't know what that's like but I've I've heard from a lot of people and it is tough do you know do you think like what you don't know what I don't it's literally the only thing I haven't done in that damn show it is hard I't imagine. I really can't imagine putting myself in that position just because the world watches it and it's, you know, there's edits that make it seem, I don't know, I can't imagine going through it. And also you go through, you know, you, you grow up with certain insecurities from your life as a child and, and what you see your parents go through. And you are very fortunate to have your parents still so cute and in love.

And I think Sean and I both have the same insecurities, and we just kind of fed off those together, and that doesn't work. Yeah. Do you think – I was going to ask you, do you think Jason had – let's say you picked – like, say Jason was on your season, and you picked him, and you just replaced Sean and Jason. Do you think Jason would still be as cool? Yeah.

I think he would probably have a little more like insecurity about the relationship. But honestly, nothing phases that guy. Again, I don't know him that well, but I would have guessed that I don't think he would be much different. No, he would probably want to just be buds with you and have that relationship and we could all be friends. He would want to talk through it. He would want to talk to you. He'd want to be like, this is what it was. This is what it is.

How can we just move forward? He would just want to communicate with everybody and get on the same page. It was always funny because I remember when it happened. I just remember thinking to myself if i you know because it bugged me that sean felt this way and and your season was unique with me coming on the reasons for it i'm thinking sean was the only one uh only winner to like you know you could argue i cheated in a sense Like we knew each other a little bit before.

There was a comfort level and he still won. Like it was more like, because I, my ego after losing, I was like, fuck, I couldn't even win this time. You know, like I knew her. We had this connection. There was this familiarity and this fucking Sean guy shows up and she still picked it. And I was just thinking he would just be like,

yeah, after all this, you still picked me. And that never seemed to like, that never seemed to be a thought. Yeah. It was so unfortunate because I think he really wanted to let it go, but, and he tried and he really tried and we worked on it. Yeah, please do. Um, he really tried to work on it. It wasn't like he was like, no, this is it. And, and he, he really tried to work on it it wasn't like he was like nope this is it and and he he really is just like i think he has such a good heart and i think it's in the right place i think he just was really damaged by the show and and by you know you think producers can be your friend sometimes i think he felt very manipulated by everybody and um i don't i don't know i know i felt the same way i, well, can't you just see that? Like I chose you.

And at the end of the day, you chose me too, but he, I don't feel like he ever felt like a winner from it. Like he was, he won to have gotten me. I think when you became the bachelor, Sean almost broke up with me and said that you won. Oh, and I was like, what do you mean? That hurt me so badly that's mean and he said that guy won that's what he wanted that's why he came on the show and he won and I said that's that always so hard that always bothered me that narrative and it did I will say it bothered me and I get where you're

coming from but I think that's what bothered me the most through the uh the comments or stuff like that is i kind of joke like you know we all get criticized for right reasons on this show and i will say i you know when i came on your season that was the only time i actually came for the girl yeah with andy i didn't fucking know i went on a show with paradise it was like yeah i'll go on a beach i'm not going to end in a relationship like and with the bachelor it was like well you asked me the bachelor i definitely want this to work but like i'm i'm gonna say yes because you asked me and with yours it was like and it always bothered me that like i just all i ever wanted was i i guess not the two of you just to think it was sincere where and it really bugged me that he played off this narrative

and i think and i get why you uh to some degree went along with it uh yeah but yes like this idea that i always wanted this like i know i got lucky i do i do think you're sincere but yeah it was uh it he definitely thought that you got what you wanted out of everything like he wanted to be the bachelor well i don't know because i mean i like to think that no but i don't know because now i don't know looking back now i get confused on a lot of things interesting freudian slip i mean like it was my understanding i don't want to like this is not about shitting on sean but it was i was it bothered me he just and again in fairness to sean like i love the producers sometimes they have a way of getting in our heads you know they can be guilty of that and they certainly play they can they're good at

playing off our insecurities at times like we choose to say the things that we say yeah we do but they're good at maximizing that and sean was you know like sean had like before i showed up on your season it was game over you know and all of a sudden i show up and it's like you know yeah and i think there was some insecurities there and then they they just fed him all the things about me that he thought might be true it was easy to hate me if you think i'm there for twitter followers or instagram followers and you think i'm there to become the bachelor and here here sean is sincerely falling for you and trying to protect and he just believed that narrative and never stopped so i get where it came from but it was more like after you're out of the show man like i know and it's fucking slack it hurt me so badly because again I did truly like I thought he

was the one and I just wanted him to believe how much I loved him and it just never came through it was always about something else and and like you said like it's this is not about to shit on him we can all look at it from different angles and understand people's emotions and different feelings but it's just like ah how did you not see how much I cared about you? And like, it just, at the end of the day, I chose him not to rub it in. No, you know, but like. Like Sean said, I mean.

And it just never felt like he chose me back. Yeah, and listen, I think it's interesting. I think you and I can relate a lot in that regard. I still have a lot of resentment and baggage for my relationship with Vanessa. Yeah. I know she really tried and it's not like, but it's, it's, I just felt like I was trying to do everything I could and even like learning from past mistakes of other leads of advice. And I was just like, and it never felt like I was ever going to be able

to convince her how I felt about her or why I had. And it was just like, and I had a lot of just angst and resentment about like, I really wanted that to work. I really wanted to go on that show and meet someone and be like, finally. And it didn't happen. And I really felt for Vanessa and really cared about her. And it was just like, this could have worked, you know, and it really, and I have a lot of resentment about that.

And hearing you talk about your experience, I definitely can, can relate in that regard. Yeah. I felt a lot of resentment too. I think it's a little different now just because I feel so content and happy with everything of where i'm at but i still have this feeling like i spoke to a medium and she was like yeah sean hates you and i was like what and i believe mediums is that is that fair because she could have like googled something well of course of course but she no she was very open she watched the show she is not just like a medium she's an aura reader and she sure this was

like on the way out i was like i was like is he over this like do you think and she was like oh no he hates you and i was like because it breaks my heart because i'm like, it sucks. All of it. You know, he was. He was never convinced of how much I actually loved him. Then we finally break up and it was just like a year of like, can we make this work? And then we break up and then all of a sudden I did move on quickly in. If you look at it from a certain way, I moved on quickly. And all of a sudden I like bought the house. I'm with a guy. I've got a new golden retriever. I'm like, I'm like having my wine business. And I'm just like so proud of where I'm at. And I feel like he might hate me because I,

how do you feel about that? Oh, are you my therapist? Uh makes me sad because all I ever did was try and make him happy. And I just feel like he's just still angry at me. I'm trying to think about how you're still. It doesn't matter now. Yeah. It really doesn't matter. I just I think I'm like an empathetic person where I don't like like I even still think think about my ex ex-boyfriend and I want him to have positive thoughts of me or like,

I don't know. I just care too much. I'm curious. Is it more about you and them? Like everyone liking you or, or that you, I mean, I mean,

no, because a lot of people don't like me and that's fine. Is it fine? Strangers. I don't like when it's fine. If strangers don't like me. I know a lot of people don't like me and that's fine. Is it fine? Strangers. I don't like when it's fine if strangers don't like me. I know a lot of people don't. It's it bugs me sometimes, but I mean, I'm no different.

Yeah. But the people who I have, like when I love somebody, I love them hard. Like Cleo can nod her head at that. I love them hard. And when they don't see that or when they move on in life and like still have resentment towards me, it bothers me. That sucks. I'm sorry because like I feel like you always want. Again, we talked about this after we talked on the phone.

Like I had well past moved on like our thing and it was more like, you know, granted we only hung up for like eight weeks and then, you know, but when you call me a couple of weeks ago, I was a weight off my shoulders. I didn't think I needed or wanted. Same. And I got to assume that you probably hope that someday you and Sean can just, you know,

that feeling of, of, of, of toxic feelings towards each other or the fear that that exists is it's a bummer it is yeah i i know especially because i want i truly want him to be happy and i i guess i just feel so happy and where i'm at in life that i want i i genuinely want the same for him and i want him to feel happy because then I think we could get to a place where, like, we live in the same city. And Nashville's not big.

It's not big. And we've never run into each other. And I want to be able to and be like, how are you? And how's Tucker? And, like, this is Jason. And I think you guys would really get along. And, like, I just want it to be in a healthy place. Yeah, he's never going to want to hang out with Jason.

It's too bad, though, because Jason's a swell guy. He's a swell guy. And I know you've always kind of joked about the obstacles you've had with the show or the franchise, you know, stemming back from your season. sending back from from from your season but i heard some rumors from multiple sources oh boy that that sean wanted to go on paradise yeah i heard that too uh yeah that would have been a shit show he made some strong attempts and he was not allowed and i can't i can't speak to why but like if i'm a producer and only cared about ratings, I absolutely cast Sean. Yeah.

And I feel like, and I don't know this for sure, but it was probably maybe out of consideration for you that Sean wasn't brought back on. They're really good at picking your brain and getting in there and helping you grow and just figuring out if you actually would work with someone. Like, I truly believe that. I totally agree. It's interesting. Memory. Have you ever talked about, like, talking to Nick before you went on The Bachelorette before? I think you did.

But I don't know if I did. Have you guys ever, like, come out and been like, this is what happened? I started this podcast with kind of finally telling that story. Do you have any objections? No, no. I think it's fine. I remember it was the live. It was the live.

Fuck it. How do I? I know. It was the live premiere for Colton's season. And I was doing the live. You know know, they were doing like satellite little. That was so weird. That's so weird. And we were like prepping for it.

And all of a sudden I'm like getting all these tweets like Nick comes out with a podcast talking about Caitlin. And I was like, what? And so I was like, I mean, you understand clickbait. Totally understand clickbait. And I knew and I'm sure it worked because I did it. I was like, I mean, you understand clickbait. Totally understand clickbait. And I knew, and I'm sure it worked because I did it. I was like, what is he saying? I waited till you guys broke up. I know.

And there really wasn't anything you said that neither one of us knew, like didn't know. And it wasn't like, yeah. And nothing even I said was like that scandalous. But I, you know, I respect for your relationship. And I knew it was just like, I don't know. Like I just never said anything. Yeah. I mean, I think everybody knows the story is that we did talk before.

Like it's nothing new. We talked before the show and I was like, I wouldn't be mad if you got out of that limo. Like because we obviously had we had great conversation and we'd never met, though, in person. We didn't mean it. facetimed a lot but we've not met yeah in person that's so crazy um but yeah it was i think everyone knows the story yeah i mean they do now well who reached out to whom i reached out to caitlin first and it was about kelsey and i oh yeah but i mean i will admit there was probably a little bit of like, who should I ask about Kelsey? You know.

I'll go with this one. Yeah. You know, because, you know, we'll see. And then she started messaging me mostly out of like advice and stuff like that. And then it kind of. Who was Kelsey? Kelsey was the dead, glorious dead husband story. Yeah.

She really used her story as a, I don't know, a sob story. I guess it was sad because it actually happened. And she kept being like, my story's really sad. And talking about how her husband passed. And it was sad, but it was like every five minutes. And then she was the only person in the house I didn't get along with. And she just really, she really hated me. So yeah, it was about Kelsey. That's how that started.

And then we just kept talking. We had a little two-week FaceTime love affair. It really was just like that. I remember vividly though. No, I remember little moments. I went to New York and I was working for Salesforce. I remember when Caitlin found out that she was co-batch Sharette and very upset about

that and just wanted to talk through it. And again, it was just, you know, a lot of it was based off of, you know, just like having a mutual connection and experience and, and, and kind of building, you know, sometimes you build the relationship through, through that. And then, you know, just kind of those moments. I mean, I also told, told Sean after I, I'm like, well, he's like, I just, you know, if only he didn't come on the show, it would be fine. I'm like, no, because then I would have thought about what if.

I did always wonder sometimes. I remember, like, especially right after, you know, like when I was all bummed about it, like, what if I never came? Right. Because there was always this, like, I'll call you when I'm done. And keep in mind, you know, in fairness to you, like, no lead call you when I'm done. And keep in mind, in fairness to you, no lead knows what to expect, right? And so when you go in,

so everything that was said between us was kind of like, Sean didn't exist in your mind at that point, all these things. So it's easy to say something. I'll meet you at the dock. Kind of, yes. In a way.

Yeah, you never know what is going to... I remember night one when Sean came out, I was like, oh, oh. Yeah. Ruh-roh. I do. I do remember. I do remember in Ireland. And Caitlin was like, you're like my top two.

I did. And I was like, what? I did. You looked at me. You said, are you calling me number two? And I was like, what? I did. You looked at me. You said, are you calling me number two? And I was like, I don't know. I'm not. Well, because I didn't want to lie.

And that's so funny because I do totally remember that. I mean, they were filling up our Jameson cups pretty strong. But I remember saying, you're like in my top two and you're like what and i was like there i got two more questions about that we can move on from that but you might not even remember because we were pretty soft yeah but this was at like it's four days before the finale yeah and remember we got to hang out before i don't remember any of that okay never mind then no you gotta there was we were we were hanging out and then with producers and the producers let us have like

10 minutes alone and you know we we're enjoying the moment whatever kissing whatever and then kate looked at me and she gave me this look and it wasn't a great i wasn't loving the look and she said come here i need to tell you something and she wanted to pull me into another room and that's when the producers came in and i was like i always wondered like was she just gonna tell me she was gonna pick sean and or i didn't i always was like it was like there was a moment of like i just need to fucking tell you something and like that never happened and then they cut it off what were you you going to say? I don't think she remembers. The altitude in Utah. We were sauced. We were both.

Yeah, it was a lot. I couldn't believe they let that happen though because they never let – and they didn't let me hang out with anybody off camera except for you. Yeah, I mean who knows. I think I had a relationship with them. I think I had a connection with them. I think I had a connection with them. I think they were kind of pissed at Sean. I think they were maybe hoping, you know, who knows their motives.

You're right. Yeah. I always kind of. Oh, shoot. Sorry. I don't remember. That might have been it, though. That might have been it.

It doesn't really matter, but since you're here. Even with the extra help, you still couldn't seal the deal. Yeah, I know. Which is why Sean should have just been like i'm the goddamn winner i mean he had every advantage everything and i still beat him it's like it's like a football game the the other team fumbles four times and you still win yeah you know it's so weird or you fumble four times and still win or something everything in my if i think about it i'm such a believer in like a path and certain

things happening for a reason like i'm glad i met you i'm glad we went on that show together i'm glad i picked sean i'm glad that didn't work out i'm glad i'm with jason and i'll be glad no matter what happens down the road because i love every like chapter of life and i feel like every single thing that i've gone through i've learned so much and i've like i know that sounds so dumb and cheesy but it's so true. Yeah. I'm glad we can be friends now.

I'm glad we can sit here and talk. I'm very thankful for that. I'm not a big believer in everything happens for a reason, but I am thankful for experiences and I think things work themselves out. Yeah. Can we tell the Carly and Wedding Evan story? No. Damn it.

Fair enough. Because. It's fine. It's, it's, I, okay, I'll tell you one thing. I made the, okay, let's talk about it. It's not a big deal. It's totally fine. I think it's a sweet moment.

Brought to you by Spade and Sparrow Wine. Yeah, exactly. It's very good. Your wine is very good if that helps thank you i i made the dj play a song that we both liked at the wedding and i'll tell you why you looked like you were having a miserable time at that wedding truly was you looked and i felt bad for you because you were you wouldn't even so wait your solution was to request a song that we shared in our mini love affair before you were the wouldn't even so wait your solution was to request a song that we shared in our mini love affair before you were the bachelorette it's a fun dance song that i knew you liked and i was like i'm gonna get that guy out of his chair and i i don't totally buy that's why

maybe slightly i actually thought it was funny you're i it was funny I thought it was cute it was sweet and when you told me about it and just to prep I was miserable yes Vanessa because Vanessa I were just having a really hard time at that point and and we we were even discussing maybe not going down and I just wasn't a I just I did not want I wasn't having fun going to a wedding let alone a bachelor wedding where someone that like I just knew deep down we weren't going to make it. And we were just really at odds. And I just, so that's why I was having a miserable time. See, that's funny because Sean and I were actually in such a good place

at that wedding too. Yeah, you guys seemed quite great. We had the best time. Caitlin and I had this song. What song? I don't even remember. It was called You and Me. It doesn't really.

It's called You and Me. I don't even. It's by Disclosure. Dun, dun, dun, dun. Dun, dun, dun, dun. Everyone knows that song. you and me it doesn't really it's like it's called you and me i don't even um it's it's by disclosure everybody knows it's like a if you heard it you would play it and so we're at a wedding and the song comes on and i'm i'm i am i'm fucking miserable i'm just like stan everyone's just like i'm just like i'm just being a little baby and the song comes on and as soon as it came on i was like i like i knew like i i knew this i mean the song still like every time i hear it i there's two songs that you know what they are but there's two songs that i can't hear them without thinking of caitlin i just i can't

um and it comes on and i was like oh like caitlin's oh like and at the time they never thought i'd never done on me that maybe caitlin would oh like and at the time they never thought i'd never dawned on me that maybe caitlin would oh i was totally trying to get yeah but i at the time i'm thinking to myself fuck i'm not looking at her i'm not fucking looking at her and and i was like i'm not giving her the satisfaction and and i couldn't help but think uh like that she like at the corner of my eye i just i felt like caitlin was just like staring at me but i wouldn't look at her and then i when caitlin called me i was like can i she's gonna ask you a question and my only question was asking if like she was just looking

at me she's like no i fucking requested that song no i'm so brutal yeah i i thought it was so funny and i was like this guy's having a terrible time. And I just wanted to, I actually thought you would laugh, but you did not laugh. I smirked on the inside, but it was like, I was, I was, I was not having. You were finally on the dance floor. And so I mean, and then you literally were like this. I was not having, I was not having a good time. And then I felt like there, I was just like there I was just being a little baby about it

but I will say after the fact it was like again not that it was in any way scandalous or anything quite honestly it made me feel good because I'm glad you picked Sean and not in a snide sort of way but it always

meant something to me that we had a connection and we had a even short relationship and like i always felt fondly about you and like to hear that it made me because it but so much of the past four years was about like i know like it wasn't bullshit and it felt like it was i was being told it was bullshit so to hear that kind of was like you know what it's a little sign there's not even a it was just like it wasn't like it was bullshit. So to hear that kind of was like, you know what? There's a little sign. There's not even a sign. It was just like, it wasn't like, it was just a mutual acknowledgement to like an, an, an, a nice moment. And it was like a friendly acknowledgement that kind of felt nice. That was all. It was a nice moment for me. No, I think it was, it was tough for my favorite thing you said to me after is when we had that phone call and you were like,

why am I always the joke? Like, why are you always poking at me or I'm always the joke? And I was and I was like, yeah, I don't know. And you're like, did I do anything wrong? I was like, no. And you're like, can you get a new joke? It was the best. I was like, touche, touche, I will get a new joke.

Like, yeah, I mean, it made so much sense to me when you said that. Can you get a new joke like yeah i mean it it made so much sense to me when you said that can you get a new joke i'm like why am i still fucking i don't have to do that anymore i mean again i i i get it because um you obviously cared about sean and and if if vanessa had her way i would would have hated Rachel for no reason. And I'm not saying that to shit on. Like, again, it's incredibly hard to be the winner so much. So many relationships haven't worked out. And there hasn't been a winner that's still in a relationship

that has had to accept some very difficult things. So like, in fairness to both. There hasn't? Every winner has had to accept very difficult things. Just by in fairness to both. There hasn't? Every winner's had to accept very difficult things. Just by definition of the fucking show. I know. It's like I don't care what you do. The foundation of a relationship is just shit when you go on The Bachelor.

I was having a conversation with a friend who was, you know, we're friends now, but we had just met in LA and they were a fan of the show and they were talking to me. now but we had just met uh in la and they were a fan of the show and they were talking to me and he's a they're a writer so they love a good story or a good line so to speak and we're talking and he's just like and vanessa was talking it was there and talking some other people and he's just like man that's like you know i was just explaining the show and he's like that's like starting a relationship in the eighth inning i got no that's like starting a relationship in the eighth inning down by six, no, that's like starting a relationship in the eighth inning down by six runs. And he just thought that was a great line. But that's truly what it is.

You're just at such a disadvantage starting this relationship. Because you both start it and you fast forward the relationship. You're not starting with all these little moments and these little things and this no pressure. It has all the pressure in the world. You're engaged yeah but then you are put you're given all these disadvantages of what you did this and you did this and this happened and that happened and it's just like was i wrong but i could do this but like should i be okay with

it's yeah it's really hard um so i i get i get sean and vanessa's point of view but at the same time I get Sean and Vanessa's point of view, but at the same time, it's a lose-lose. I do like to give them a little bit of credit sometimes just because I don't even know if I could do it sometimes. I think about when I was on Chris Soule's season. And when I came out of it, I was so crushed and so heartbroken. I really thought it was me. And it took me only a couple days to realize, oh, I was just crushed and so heartbroken. I really thought it was me. And it took me only like a couple of days to realize like, oh, I was just so caught up in everything. But even in that situation, I found it hard watching back and seeing his moments with other people,

even knowing he wasn't my person, that I didn't want to be with him, all the things. I still found it hard to watch it back and see those moments with other people. So I can't even imagine if you're like deeply in love with somebody, you think you own, it's only you the whole time. And then you watch back and see that there was other relationships and, and then having to move forward from that with all your insecurities and your past and everything.

I totally get how that must feel close to impossible. Yes. But you make a decision because three and a half years is not a short amount of time to be with somebody. You guys, yeah. You guys were there a long time. Three and a half years. Yeah.

So I think that just shows how hard we tried and how much we cared. But it was just like, at that point, it's like we either are going to drop this forever or we have to break up. I'm quite glad you guys dated as long as you did, selfishly in a sense, because when the show first ended, I was like, they're we have to break up. I'm quite glad you guys dated as long as you did selfishly in a sense,

because when it first, when, when the show first ended, I was like, they're never going to work out. I had all these reasons why, you know, but then after a while you guys were like,

and it quickly, you guys quickly seemed to like, you guys really cared about each other. And I think that was just more for accepting just like, well, obviously this is how it should have worked out. And selfishly for me, for you to move on.

I mean, I had moved on before that. But it was just a comforting feeling of like I see why they work. Which all the more reason why we might not have so to speak. And so whether you guys. The fact that you guys broke up or not. Three and a half years. Yeah.

Longer than a lot of marriages. That's like a real. I haven't had a three year relationship in some time. Yeah. That was my longest relationship but yeah it's I mean it taught me a lot a lot a lot a lot I think that's why you know when you just find well maybe maybe you don't maybe out there people are listening and do but you just like you know when you find like a healthy relationship that you're like holy shit this

is so much easier than I ever thought it could be and there's like such a healthy relationship that you're like, holy shit, this is so much easier than I ever thought it could be. And there's like such a healthy level of communication and confidence. And I feel like I had to go through every relationship that I've ever been through to get to this point of actually appreciating somebody else. Like with Jason, I don't think I would have appreciated him for what he is a couple of years ago, because I don't think I was in a healthy mindset myself. Like, I feel like I've done so much work on myself that now I'm able to have a healthy relationship with somebody that's on the same page as me. Yeah. I mean, again, I don't know Jason that well, other than the brief times I've experienced him. He's someone

who is clearly just a confident guy and he has reasons to be confident he's gorgeous he's successful and smart and he's just a um and i will say knowing you and not but knowing your past relationship i always just thought to myself man she her star shine shines so bright like you really need to be with someone who uh has like a nice pair of sunglasses who like, you know, like it's fine and they don't mind wearing some sunglasses and they don't need to keep shining. I feel like that's what had been our problem.

That would have been our biggest issue. You know? Yeah. We both, we both want to outshine. I'd be like, put your goddamn sunglasses on. And you'd be like,

no, you. It's my turn. That's hilarious. Yeah. Very fair. But yeah, Jason's literally like, he just, I mean, no matter what I'm doing, he's like, oh my gosh, you just keep on shining.

Like, he's just the sweetest guy ever. I didn't know that there was still people like him out there. They just, he's a dying breed. I just think it's so amazing because a lot of times when we're faced with people like that who actually do support us and we're used to not, we push them away. And I have found myself doing that even.

Oh, with Jason? Yeah. Interesting. But I catch myself now because I do a lot of therapy. I just like, I always give props to Angela, my therapist, because she's helped me realize that I do a lot of therapy. I always give props to Angela, my therapist, because she's helped me realize that I do that. So now if I do it, I catch myself and realize what the underlying issue is. What are some ways in which you have done that, or what are some triggers? Because I'm just selfishly asking for myself.

Like what are triggers for me to push somebody away? Yeah. what are some moments where you you recognize that you were pushing him away and that you you shouldn't have i don't even know if i can like pinpoint an a time but it's more just like in general where i'm i'm just like i don't know i don't know how to explain it. Like maybe you like just big, you're like, I don't know. This is working. This isn't as great as I thought it or stuff like that. No, it's more just like, I'm like, I'm like looking at Cleo to help me.

I don't know. Do you know? Yeah. Like, I don't feel like I'm ever like, nah, I don't think this is the guy. I'm always like, I don't mean like that, but I mean like, yeah, just a feeling where you have a, uh, I mean, maybe I, sometimes you're just, you find reasons to sabotage. You think of, you make stuff up, right. Or I don't know.

Yeah. I always have. I self sabotage more than anyone and I'll convince myself that like, he's not as great as he is. I think that's how I do it. Like I'm like there's no way you're that great and that you are so supportive and like have your own thing going on and successful and smart and you just like love me this much. Nope. There's no way. And I'm like waiting for it to fail. But he just always proves me wrong. When's the when's the wedding day? Am I,

I haven't been asked that in a long time. Will I, will I be invited? Yeah, of course. Jason really likes you. I really like him. When, when,

when did we meet? Oh, on my podcast. And we were talking about, I'm like, cause I saw him in Vegas with you guys at some point and everybody was just so tanned and ripped. And I was like,

what is happening in the bachelor world? And you guys were all together in Vegas. And I was like, Oh is happening in the Bachelor world? And you guys were all together in Vegas. And I was like, oh, how's Vegas? And he was like, yeah, I really like Nick. And he really likes Ben. And I was like, yeah, they're great. Jason and I were like the last two to leave, so we had like lunch together.

And he's just like, I remember telling Alon too, he's like the most normal of this, like that particular season, you know? He was the only one I thought I could get along with like outside of the show. Like Colton's really nice and neat, but I don't know if we're meant to be good friends. Right.

You know, like I'm not good friends with Jason, but there's a world in which that's the type of guy I would have hung out with. Oh, totally. Yeah. Yeah. He really enjoyed you. Did you guys hang out at Ashley and Jared's wedding?

Yeah, we actually did. Oh, yeah. We talked a lot. Yeah, yeah. We talked a lot about podcasting and we all hung out together it was quite nice yeah that was that was like such a just a great wedding of just easygoingness but like it was so much going on we didn't like hang out yeah like it was we hung out well there was yeah there's a lot of us there it was fun there's a lot of a lot of good people there that I missed, like Becca and Ashley and all these people that were on Carly. We were all on the same season together of Chris Soules. And so it was so nice to just actually just hang out with everybody. No stress, no drama. It was just really a good time. It was a real drama-free wedding. It really was. It was a really nice just couple days.

It was just a really pristine, feel-good weekend. Yeah, it was. And how could you not just root for those two? I know people have listened to our live show. Yeah. Your live show. Yeah. I apologize.

Before they listened to this. What can I expect from the live show i haven't listened are your are are the caitlin stands going to be sweethearts they're all the most accepting like loving people and it like they're all pumped for for the interview so is blake super mad at me oh is he mad at you i don't know i've been hard on blake why? No, don't be hard on Blake. He's such a little sweetie. I've been hard on him. I don't think he's a bad guy.

I've been critical of him. I'm not like I hate Blake and I don't think he's totally fine, but I've been particularly critical. I've thought about this a little bit. Yeah. I think I'm so, so anti-releasing the text. You can blame me for that. You told him to release the text?

I thought it was a good idea if he contacted Kaylin first about it. Yeah. Which he did. Yes. So that to me. That's why I had more of a problem with it. Because they discussed options and she was pleading with him not to do it. And allegedly she was like, well, what not to do it and allegedly she was like well what if i

say something etc etc but the thing is she i like kaylin i really do i think she's such a sweetheart and i and i love blake to me it was like she clearly had lied about some things and admitted it she was not totally innocent right so then to me it was like blake was being especially with what kaylin has been through and you'd never wish that upon anyone and it's so tragic and it's heartbreaking and you just feel for her so then to put blake in a category that could make him seem like such a monster to have treated her with such disrespect when that wasn't the case i guess i didn't feel that way i didn't feel like anyone thought he was a monster i understand that the times we live in

and what she said was a bit of a trigger that's what got me i uh i just think people saw him as a fuck boy yeah and i think i i will i thought about this kind of internally where I thought – Can you pour me more wine, please? Yeah. Yeah. I was actually talking about this with Rachel Lindsay when I went on her show, Bachelor Happy Hour. She's a friend of the show. Shameless plug. I gave Rachel shit about having her own baggage.

We all have baggage from the show. Right. The show, like, you know, through edits and just our our experiences we just have our own personal shit that we deal with and rachel has hers and you have yours and i certainly have mine and my baggage has always been well i'm certainly not a perfect guy and i'm not i'm no ben higgins i was never the guy that i was thought to be by so many on andy and caitlin season and that was like even like the sexual bachelor. It's just like, yeah, am I like, do I go out and like, I haven't been in a relationship,

but like I don't sleep around. Yeah, they always need some, like Colton was the virgin. I get that, right? And so here was Blake who was, Blake. Yeah. And Blake was just, like I say a lot of people,

just a guy. And it bothered me that I felt like Blake did what he did for the past year. And that was no crime. That was just, like I say a lot of people, just a guy. And it bothered me that I felt like Blake did what he did over the past year. And that was no crime. That was just, he had some fun. He fucked a lot of girls. And that's fine. Had some sex.

Yeah. That's good for him. He did. He tried to go back on and seemingly pretend that he was still the boy next door. I don't think he did, though. I think he went on full-blown knowing. We had conversations with him being like, you probably shouldn't go on the show. And he was like, I know.

Like, he knew he was very aware. I think and I'm never going to like completely blame editing. But like, I think they tried to make it seem like he was trying to be all innocent. But he knew and he had conversations that weren't shown and it made it look certain ways. But he's very aware that he was just being a little bit of a fuck boy. but he knew and he had conversations that weren't shown and it made it look certain ways, but he's very aware that he was just being a little bit of a fuck boy. He's very aware. He wrote,

I don't even actually think he regrets it. I think he, I don't think he regrets. I don't think he needs to regret it. I think he just, I think he never really, even his appellate, like he wrote something.

I just would prefer to him to be like, listen, I did this and I'm not like, I think he could have owned that a little bit. Really? See, I think he completely owned it. I don't know. Agree to disagree. I don't think he's a bad guy. And I know, I just know I've been tough on him, but I'm fine with him. I just don't know if he's like a little mad at me. I DM'd him and I said, hey, man, I know I've been tough on you,

but I just want you to know I don't have a problem with you. Did he respond? He did not respond. Did he see it? Yes. Oh, okay. Yeah. I mean, oh, look, there's me with my wine.

I think if you guys just had a conversation, and obviously this is weird with Aaron and went timing, but yeah, I just think he, he understands people being hard on him. I was hard on him. I'd call him and be like,

you're an idiot. Like you completely had this coming and, but, but I do defend him with the text messages and that's controversial, but I just think given the situation and Kalen's history, I don't think it was fair for him to be labeled as someone who is forcing sex on her. Yeah.

Well, I think that's where I think it's two people who I don't, I don't remember. I don't think she had those that were her intentions. And I don't think that was his intentions. I think it's two people who I don't remember. I don't think those that were her intentions, and I don't think that was his intentions. I think tension and social media, it all kind of snowballed into something that it wasn't probably. I think everyone was kind of in a… And he was not okay after releasing those texts because he was like, I shouldn't have done that. And then he felt so much guilt, and I was like, oh, I had something to do with that.

But I just wanted I just didn't want anyone to get away with anything. I get what you're saying. Yeah. And I and again, I really, really like Kaylin. I had her on my podcast and I was like, that girl is such a sweetheart. Like, I really do like her. Yeah. I mean, you don't have that's you don't have to not like anyone just to have a be critical

of maybe something they said or did. Right. Before I let you go okay we play a game called do you know me with all our guests it's just like a fun game love games uh you can buy it on amazon if you really like this one it's not mine and my friend did it but um rochelle and i are going to guess who knows caitlin bristow better oh uh there are just random questions we'll fill your name in the blank even Rochelle even know me well I I spend an hour listening ah there you go

uh in theory I think Rochelle is a fan of your show I have I don't think you and I spend a lot of time listening to each other's

podcasts I listened way back you know yeah so in theory she should know she should know you maybe more than I

uh but then you you know but well my money's on Rochelle it's just a fun little like how do we get to know each other? It's a game you play.

You and Jason can play. You might be able to learn some fun things that you haven't learned about each other. It was so fun because you were the only Bachelor podcast. Yeah. And I was such a fan of The Bachelor. I was like, oh my gosh, now I get to listen to people talk about it. Like it felt so behind the scenes, which there wasn't really before. Great question.

Do you feel like you were kind of uh the queen of podcasting well in bachelor nation and then and now there's a lot of them and now there's a there's a few king and queens i and i will i'll admit when i started this show the only person i felt like i was competing with was you oh really and and i mean that as a compliment oh well thank you i i felt like you were the gold standard in this world. Thank you. It's definitely my passion. I work really hard at the podcast and I love doing it. But I'm trying. It's like not so much of a Bachelor podcast though anymore. Right. I get what you're saying. And I don't see this as one either. Yeah. And part of that was for those reasons. But also, do you sometimes roll your eyes when a new podcast drops? No, because I'm quite confident in mine.

There you go. Good answer. All right. Do You Know Me with Caitlin Bristow. Don't answer right away. We're going to guess. Has Caitlin given someone the middle finger in the past two weeks? By the way, Rochelle picked these questions out.

I could have asked a month or a year, but I want two weeks. Okay. A year, of course. Two weeks? Yeah. I think she's been traveling. She was just at People's Choice Awards. A lot of stressful situations.

I think, you know, not a lot of sleep. I'm going to say yes. Okay. No. I'm going to say no. Two weeks? Like, do people even give them middle finger anymore? I'm like, some people do.

Really? If you drive a lot. See, you don't drive in LA, so it's different probably. That's true. The last time I ever gave the middle finger was, honestly, that I remember was like six years ago in Germany and apparently that's like

the worst thing you can do. I don't remember the last time I've given someone the middle finger. But now I think it's funny. Now that you brought it up I'm like I'm going to start doing it. You know what pisses people off more than a middle finger? What? And specifically road rage?

The face wash? A good smile or a thumbs up? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. The passive aggressive. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. How you doing? Yeah, you're right.

Okay, Caitlin. Rochelle picked this question. I'm reading it for the first time. Oh, God. Just for fun. Oh, God. It's a dick move. You're really putting on the tease, so to speak.

I don't know. Has Caitlyn ever faked an orgasm? Well, I didn't fake it because of you. She's like, only once. In the last two weeks or ever? Ever. I'm going to say yes in her life, of course.

Everyone has. Everyone has. Everyone. She's not naming any names. So I'm winning one. We get it now. 2-1. Did Caitlyn take any AP classes in high school?

I think she's very smart, but I'm going to say no. I think she took AP World History. She's also Canadian, so that might not be a thing in Canada. Ah, freak. Do you familiar with what we're talking about? What the fuck is an AP? Ah, damn it. It's like...

I forgot she was Canadian. It's like extra hard history. No, it's like you take it, and then you don't have to take the class in college. Oh, yeah, no, that's not a thing in Canada. Yeah. Okay. Thank you for saying I'm smart.

You said yes still. Do you get straight A's? No. Oh. No. But not because I wasn't smart. It was because I was such a loser in school that I just like skipped school and like thought I was too cool.

You were cool. Yeah. Yeah. I was smart. I just chose not to. She didn't apply herself. I didn't apply myself is what my teachers would tell you. I didn cool. Yeah. Yeah. I was smart. I just chose not to. She didn't apply herself. I didn't apply myself is what my teachers would tell you.

In high school. That's what everyone says. Rochelle very much applied herself. Rochelle's an applier. I wish I did. No, you came out on top for sure. It's so funny. Jason always makes fun of me

because he's like, look, he got like his MBA in finance and he's like nine years of all these promotions and he was VP of this bank and then he's like, and I moved got his MBA in finance, and he's like nine years of all these promotions, and he was VP of this bank, and then he's like, and I moved to Nashville for a girl with a high school education who probably makes more money than me. That's true.

That's awesome. Has Caitlin ever bought a pregnancy test, 100%? I say no. I think she, I say no i think she i say no okay yeah i have yeah i have only once though only one can you say no yeah okay scariest moment of my life would caitlin date someone shorter than her? Sure. Yeah, I think she would.

I think she's spoiled by The Bachelor. You guys are all so tall. No. I think she's generally into taller guys, and that's been her MO. You can't go back now. She's too far in. I think she's capable. And keep in mind, when you answer this question,

it's not have you ever. Would you? Would you? I think you... You know, it's not have you ever it's would you would you i think you you know it's like i have an apartment with the parking spot i can never go back to a apartment without a parking spot so i think it's the same for her yeah they say once you go tall um i think i would just because like i just don't have a type I really do not have a type well I do but I felt like Sean was very much your type why though well part of the reason is when you called me the night before I showed up on your season you told me about a guy who's on your season you said he's just like my ex-boyfriend. He's very much my type. That's the only reason why I might think you have a type.

That's true, though. That's true. Him and my ex are very similar. They actually work a lot. Wait, how did you call her if she was on The Bachelor? That's a whole other story. She had an iPad that was in her hotel room, and she DM'd me on Twitter and said,

I said this on episode one of Vile Files. And I called her and I'm panicking and then we talked. I did tell you about him, yeah. She told me about Sean. Has Caitlin ever dated someone

because of their Zodiac sign? I want to change it. Have you ever dated someone or refused to date them simply because of the zodiac sign? I'm going to say no. No, I don't think she's had time to. I don't even think.

My guess is you're not into zodiac signs. I don't know anything about any. All I know is I'm a Gemini, and that means I'm crazy. That's all I know. I'm a Libra, and I'm balanced or something. That any all i know is i'm a gemini and that means i'm crazy that's all i know i'm a libra and i'm balanced or something i don't that's all i know yeah okay can caitlin name the hospital she was born in yes in canada i don't know if that had anything to do with it yeah health care is free. Maybe they don't care about the hospitals. I'm going to say yes.

No. I do. I'm just blanking on it right now. It's like the Royal something in Edmonton. Oh. Does that count? I have zero points. I think, yeah, that counts.

Yeah, because I know. I just can't remember. I mean, I literally have no idea. I have no idea. Like, I couldn't tell you the first letter. What? No idea. Yeah, but idea. Like I couldn't tell you the first letter. No. What? No idea. Yeah but you're also like one of eleven. I feel like that's like

were you all born at the same hospital? No. Yeah see so that's like how do you keep track? I don't know. I don't think that's why you know. I know that was stupid. Has Caitlyn blown first class? I'm going to change this question.

Has Caitlyn flown coach in the past year? Coach. Because once you go, this is class. That answer is no. I think she has. I think she went. She definitely has not. Not even like visiting family?

Maybe, but ideally not. I can't. You can't? Oh, my God. Ask Cleo. I'm literally a freak about flying first class because, well, one with with ramen, it's really I fly with him a lot. Oh, OK. And so it is just better for everybody.

But I just I'm more comfortable. I'm like I travel so much that it's for my sanity to be comfortable while I travel. And I will happily spend the extra money or sometimes brands or whatever will fly you. And I just make sure it's a contract that you fly first. It's just it's a comfort thing and I am also a flying diva you don't have to defend yourself it's fucking incredible I'm not a diva I have anything but flying I have I will say like I'm I love it I can be slightly cheap um for myself like if it's not like if it's not for like for a job in the same way like family it's like part of like no i will only go if they do that but like when i go home for thanksgiving

i'll like look at the prices but i'll be like sometimes there's a couple airlines like i that's why i fly southwest because it's like a cheat it's certainly not fit business class or first class but i can go and then pay like an extra 40 bucks to get the front row and that way at least i have the leg room but i'm not in a middle seat because like i'm tall so it's just like okay but here's the thing nothing better than delta one on the flight to new york it's the best thing in the world but i am a religious delta flyer so i'm a diamond medallion status so i automatically i can book coach but i will always be bumped so i will sometimes i will fly, and I'm not happy about it, but I will do it. But coaches – I don't think you have to defend yourself as a diva.

I'm really defending myself here. I'm like, ah! I can back you up on this. It's truly a delight. It's a delight. It's an entirely different experience. I feel like I earned it. There's part of it where you're just like – you look forward to that flight.

Yeah. Otherwise, I have anxiety. I do it for my mental health. Well, I'll give you some of my essential oils for your anxiety. Oh, perfect. Oh, can you? Has Caitlyn ever taken someone's virginity? No.

Do you know that? You said that? I don't know that. I did. I don't know that, but I know that. You think she's always dated older guys? Yep. Huh.

At the time in which it was relevant for virginity, yes. Can I just agree with you? Sure, but you can be wrong. I'm going to be wrong? You agree? Yeah. Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah, of course you can agree.

I'm losing anyways. It doesn't matter. I don't think you've taken anyone's virginity. No, I haven't. Have you? Yes, my first girlfriend. Oh, that's nice. It's not too late, Caitlin.

It's a little late. It's a little late for that, actually. Really? Possible. No. Well, Caitlin, it has been an absolute pleasure. I can't wait to do your live show. I know we'll have it recorded this

and I'm sure people will have loved that where can people find you and all the things that you're doing you're still doing the scrunchie thing yes yes I really wanted one oh we're going to send you some did we bring any clear do you have a

official relationship with Sage yeah kind of. Oh, because of your oils. Competitor. They're a competitor for you? Well, they do essential oils. Oh, yeah, I guess so. They do non-USD organic ones.

Yeah, I mean, I did a partnership with them with our scrunchies. And they're, aren't they a Canadian brand? They are. Yeah, yeah. So I love them. Are you allowed to support natural habits? Yeah, of course. Yeah, of. So I love them. Are you allowed to support natural habits? Yeah, of course. Yeah, of course I can.

Great. You support my stuff, I'll support your stuff. Yeah, but I don't have a deal with wine. Right. I don't want to affect your business relationships. I can simply point out that Sage does claim to be 100% pure, but they are not USDA organics. What does that mean? Oh, you're like a connoisseur.

I mean, like when I say we're organic and have no pesticides, it's like you don't have to take my word for it. Like we have to qualify. Yeah. And they're tested. Is that what you're going with over there? Yeah, that's what we have. What's the one?

What are we smelling? This is Rise. Oh. Rise and shine. Am I allowed to say that? You're we smelling? This is Rise. Oh. Rise and shine. Am I allowed to say that? You're going to get sued. Ah, shit. Oh, wait.

Doesn't she? She couldn't assist. Can you not sing Rise and Shine? I don't know. I got nervous. Okay, we did. That's some crap. Anyways, you're scrunchies.

This is not about natural limits. Scrunchies. Our page we work really hard on and it's really beautiful and I love it. It's at do edit. A lot of people think think it's dude it even blake said that on the podcast the other day he's like you have a dude it's scrunchie i'm like dude it's do edit and uh they're the best scrunchies you will ever get in your life and i don't i will i mean i'll take your word for it i mean it they're the best quality

jason has hair for scrunchies he can wear i and he's growing it out right now because I'm going to make him my new male model. There you go. And then my wine at Spade and Sparrows. It's delicious. People find that. I mean, holidays are coming up. I mean, every, yeah, it's a great holiday gift. You can find it on my website, CaitlinBrestow.com. Or just, like, get it

for yourself so you can get drunk around family. Yeah, that's, yeah, we all need that. I mean, I love my family, but... I want to get drunk around family yeah that's yeah we all need that and i mean i love my family but i want to get drunk with your family uh and then my podcast obviously um it's a lot of midriff caitlin yeah i was gonna say i mean i wasn't gonna say but you said it so hey i did that on the bachelor reunion and chris har in and he goes, Oh, you're wearing a bra. Okay. And then what Cleo, where are you?

Oh yeah. The tour. Obviously we're doing it in LA and then I'm going to Phoenix, Austin, Dallas. It's, it's a party. People come to party and get your tickets. It's fun.

You can, and you can get the wine there too. And the scrunchies. So it's really fun. Yeah. Awesome. Well, thanks for coming. It. Thanks for having me.

It's been an absolute pleasure. I want to keep going with the games. That was so fun. Let's have a game night. Yeah. I don't even think of more. I don't know. I love games.

I'm like, oh, that's even more fun. Nick won that one. Yeah, you definitely won. You win every time. Really? I got to pay attention to the details, Rochelle. Part of it is Rochelle wants to, for the sake of the game, disagree with

me. Right. That makes for a fun game. But thank you for having me. This was really nice. It's been a lot of fun. Thanks for listening, guys. Don't forget to check out Caitlin's podcast if you haven't listened to it already. Does that kill you a little bit to promote me if I'm your competition? No, no, no.

Okay. Like you, I believe in this show. Yeah. There's enough of Bachelor fans to go around. And yeah. No, no, no. They're all very loyal. Don't forget to rate us five stars if you so choose. Hey, Caitlyn fans out there.

We do some Ask Nick questions on Mondays. Join us. I feel every time I have a guest right now know we're going to get a bunch of listeners who may not normally listen, but they're here for you, not necessarily for me, I feel like a priest on Easter Sunday. Why? Because I'm just like, hey, guys. We're doing great things the other 50 weeks out of the year.

That's the move. I know you're here out of guilt from mom, but we're doing some great things. We have some great guests. We answer a lot of relationship questions on Mondays. Check us out

and hopefully we'll see you next time. Bye-bye. Bye.