The Viall Files - E621 Ask Nick - I Think I’m Emotionally Abusive

Episode Date: August 7, 2023

Welcome back to another episode of The Viall Files: Ask Nick Edition! We’re back to answer your burning questions about the world of dating and relationships. Before getting to our callers, we discuss the Women’s World Cup, a woman who turned down an ice cream date for being the “bare-minimum,” and the deadly power of icks. We then get to our callers.  Our first caller has been dating someone for a month, and she’s worried she’s becoming emotionally abusive. She’s toeing the line between asking for what she wants and demanding unrealistic expectations, and isn’t sure what is too much. Our second caller is three months post break-up and is wondering whether he should reach out and fight for her. After his 8-year relationship ended, he’s not ready to give up, and wants to know if and how he can save what he’s lost. Our final caller’s best friend has been cheating on her boyfriend, and she’s not sure what to do. She loves her friend, and is worried about her friend group of enablers, but can’t stand by and watch her exhibit this toxic behavior.  “Just because you’re sad, doesn’t make them special.”  Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  Join us for our new LIVE show on Thursdays at 9PM ET/6PM PT on Amp, available in the Apple app store and https://www.onamp.com for Android listeners. To Order Nick’s Book Go To: https://www.viallfiles.com  If you would like to get some texting advice on Office Hours send an email to [e-mail] with “Texting Office Hours” in the subject line!  To advertise on the show, contact [e-mail] or visit https://www.advertisecast.com/TheViallFiles  THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: BetterHelp - Visit http://www.BetterHelp.com/VIALL today to get 10% off your first month. Rakuten - Go to http://www.Rakuten.com or get the Rakuten app to start saving today. Helix Sleep - Helix is offering 20% off all mattress orders AND two free pillows for our listeners. Go to HelixSleep.com/VIALL.  Zocdoc - Go to http://www.Zocdoc.com/VIALL and download the Zocdoc app for FREE. Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @alison.vandam @liffordthebigreddog @dereklanerussell @genevievegoodman

you're crazy what's going on everybody welcome back to another episode of the vile files ask nick edition i'm your host nick joined by the household of let's see who do we got here today? Jen, Amanda, and Derek. Allie is dying. No, just kidding. What's the most embarrassing sickness? Not that Allie has anything embarrassing. Allie's not embarrassing.

Allie's hardworking and just down for the count. But what would be a sickness that you would want that would be like, it would be hard to call in to work and be like, sorry, I got. One time we had to put my dog down and i didn't feel like that was inappropriate enough reason to not come in so i said that a relative died it's true a very furry i felt a little icky about that though like technicality it's technically not a lie but then they asked who which was maybe a little inappropriate of them. So I had to make something up on the fly. So you had to make up like a great uncle?

Yeah. I just said a grandfather. I said he's been struggling for a while. Oh, Jen, that's close. That's so close. I didn't have any grandfathers at the time. They were already dead. So I felt like that was okay.

So you were just re-killing them. Yes. But then I got really really i had to convince myself all day you know she told the other camp counselors because she was like uh i was a camp counselor someone needed to fill in for me and i just i spent like six hours believing this lie and then i got home and i was like wow what a tough day what a tough loss for the family then we had to put my dog down oh that's really sad i do feel like now or maybe it's just los angeles because it's such a big dog city but i do feel like if

you said that people would be like oh my god take take a week oh my god are you okay yeah god here's here's some money for your loss yeah it might be more positive than like a person like honestly at this point yeah yeah uh well, Allie's feeling under the weather. She is not with us today, but we will survive. What's going on? Amanda. Amanda's going to be leaving for a couple of weeks. She's going to Australia for the Women's World Cup.

I'm so excited. This is a bucket list thing for you? It's a huge bucket list thing. And then do you have tickets to some games already? Yes. So I have one. There's like games in list thing and then do you have tickets to some games already yes so i have one there's like games in new zealand and games in australia like how how mobile are you going to be are you like going to so i have i am telling myself and this is a lot easier because it's women's sports where i'm like this is just an event that i'm happy to be a part of i have tickets to the game where if the U.S. comes in first place

in their group, I will see them play. That being said, the Dutch girls were tripping and we tied them, so we might come in second and I might not get to see the U.S. play, which would be a bummer. As a U.S. favorite to win, I'm shocked because it's not

really being talked about that the World Cup's going on. It's not getting a lot of media. I don't know if I agree with that. I'm not seeing it. You just might not be listening. I think it's the echo chambers of the internet. Even Barbie did an advertisement with them. That's funny.

I saw an excellent advertisement a couple weeks ago online. It was a tearjerker. I got emotional watching it. The French women sobbed. online it was a tearjerker i i got emotional watching it it was a friend of brennan's yes it was the it was the video of they basically showed highlights what you would thought was the men's french soccer team the men's french soccer team is historically one of the world's best they took second last year i think they won the year before yes they won the world cup before they're always fucking good anyways it's this highlight reel of these masterful plays presumably watching the men's uh french team just kick ass and then

halfway through the video you realize that they're actually the highlights of the women's french team and they just kind of like you know ai generated the men's heads on their body and it was like hey listen like these women are awesome you thought you were watching men fool trick jokes on you and it was really just a brilliant but that's all i've seen and i'm i'm pretty tapped into the sports echo chamber now granted maybe more nfl football but like generally i'm pretty tapped into sports in general and i just have not seen a ton i saw the fact that the women tied the Dutch. I saw that. But I'm just not seeing a lot of stuff out there.

I know. And maybe once we get to single elimination, like tournament play, that will be more exciting. But I feel like it's the double whammy of it's soccer, which US historically, not the most enthused about. But we love a winner. And are we favored to win again? Yes. Can I miss work if the US makes the finals?. But we love a winner. We love... And we are... Aren't we... Are we number... Are we favored to win again?

Yes. Can I miss work if the US makes the finals? Well, we could discuss. Amanda may join us from Australia if she can find the time to give us a lot...

Not necessarily live updates, but updates from... Updates. Our World Cup Women's Correspondent. Women's World Cup Correspondent. I'm the correspondent for women only.

Only for the women. Only for the women. What else we got going on? Speaking of women, one woman, and she does not speak for all of us by any stretch of the imagination. No. But she turned down an ice cream date and kind of sparked this larger debate because she claims that that is the bare minimum. If you ask her on a first date and you ask her to get ice cream, like that's bare minimum. Buy me a meal at least. A whole meal. She demanded. What do we think about that?

Is the TikTok? Was the tweet? How did it enter the echo chamber of how did it find its way towards us? Subreddit. But then it was picked up by larger news outlets as being like a larger cultural debate topic. Do we read her? I hope you had a good day. I'm excited for tomorrow.

I can pick you up, but if you're not comfortable with that, we can just meet there. IDK why, but I'm feeling like getting some ice cream in this hot weather. First, presumed date reaches out to her to verify the plans. Yeah. So he goes, hey, this is Vance. She goes, hi. Reinforces enthusiasm, verification, enthusiasm, an offer to pick up. Just check a check in with your comfortability.

OK, continue. So her response was, sorry, this may come off as rude, but I don't do ice cream dates. I'm a 26 year old woman and a date like that seems like the absolute bare minimum for me meeting up would be a waste of both of our time since we probably don't have the same vibe best wishes she's gonna be single forever best wishes in a text i'm sure there are some men out there puffing out their chest being like i would never take a woman for ice cream i'm gonna treat my queen with a meal like i do feel like there's probably a man with that oh she'll she'll find plenty of dates she'll get in tons of relationships but she will

almost certainly be single forever unless she makes an adjustment again like think about it like that's not the bare minimum the bare minimum would be yeah every girl who's ever gone to some guy's house to watch shitty netflix that they didn't get a say in what was selected is like fuck you the bare minimum is meeting on a dating app and not having any conversation making no plans whatsoever getting a late night text at like 9 30 and being like do you want to come over to chill that that would be the bare minimum i'm assuming they had never met in person. So did they match on a dating app? Do we know how they met? Presumably. So they matched on a dating app. And then again, he makes a plan. He checks in. I don't know how many people we've had call it. It would be like, oh, I've made a plan and

we have a date, but I haven't heard from him in a couple of days. Like, do we still got a date? So he checks in, verifies a plan so it says idky but i'm feeling like gathering some ice cream in this hot weather so he could be changing from like they had plans to get lunch and he's changing from lunch to ice cream possible or maybe they didn't really have a plan yeah for the date it was like hey let's get together they penciled in a date and time so to speak and then he followed up to verify the date then suggested adoption uh shared his enthusiasm for the date offered a pickup checked in with her comfortability in terms of you know whatever you're comfortable with can meet you there maybe you don't want me

to have your address yet you know because i'm just some random fucking dude yeah i appreciate that level of awareness you know you'd hope it's standard it's certainly not so he definitely gets points and hey let's go get some ice cream because maybe we won't like vibe as uh she suggested or or she just jumped to a conclusion how does she know she wants a whole meal of food with him she is expecting a person to find her worthy enough having not met her that she is worthy for a whole meal of food in time giving no consideration to to how she might feel about him or how he might feel about her and dismissing the fact that this is a first date

as it's kind of a check-in, get-to-know-you type of thing. You know, it's tough because obviously we talk so much about making sure people make you a priority, know your worth, yada, yada, but I think she needs to kind of recalibrate i don't know her does anyone side with her you know not on reddit okay on reddit there's a lot of people who are like i'll go on a date with you very sweet it seems so on like today.com there's a a poll where you can say from absolutely seems like a sweet idea to

no way needs to be more effort. Like people are going hard. Sweet idea. That's adorable. Because there also was effort. There's so much effort. Yeah. Not a ton.

I don't we don't give this is this is yet. This is yes. This is bare minimum stuff for what guys should be doing on the regular. That is true. But comparatively to what they are doing, so much effort, which. Yeah, but it's the appropriate amount of effort. This guy gave a solid and appropriate amount of effort because, as we all know, people can think too much.

You know, for the ladies out there are people you can be turned off by someone's over enthusiasm. I plan a really fancy dinner i'm gonna have i'm well by the way there's a limo coming to pick you up and you know there's a string quartet outside your house serenading you as you walk into the limo with a carpet like i mean i don't know this guy could go hard to the paint and like freak her out too would she want that seems it i think if anything like maybe the best and i don't again, I don't think this man has done anything wrong at all. Maybe a takeaway is like give options to people early on to cover bases.

But again, I do think she's very right. Like they aren't the same vibe. Like I read her response and I was like, this feels kind of jarring and intense. I probably would not want to go on a date with this person. I'm like, to me, that's like, yeah. So to me, that's like very informative of like, she's being very honest. She's making sure no one's making their,

wasting their time. There is some truth there that she probably is of a certain ilk. And she did say like, she did say, I don't want to sound rude. And granted, maybe it was still. Well, that's like saying no offense. Chances are, chances are she's often considered rude. It maybe he was still. Well that's like saying no offense Chances are she's often

considered rude. It would be my guess. But she has a big personality Great personality. Great expectations I'm a 26 year old woman. Too old for ice cream. Yeah if you would have caught me at 24 I'm out of my ice cream years. Yeah she says it like she's like 59

Right? But then she says she signs it best wishes yeah no 26 year old woman does that maybe she was catfishing him to realize she wouldn't be able to fake it but it's just it's hard because like i know so many when i was matchmaking there were so many clients who did not want to do a full dinner date they were like that's way too intense yeah i just want to see if we get along like have that initial test second date can be a dinner if it is good so it's like it's like an overcorrection of like knowing your worth i feel like it's an overcorrection of know what you want and find that you see all these girls who have their really long lists and they say they want they want to find someone who checks all their boxes and so if from the get-go you see

something that doesn't live up to that standard you're just like well i don't want to waste my time but you're closing yourself off from so many people yeah totally that's why i think one of the best pieces of dating advice you've ever given me was when you were like stuff's gonna come up no matter what it's gonna come up like the even the person like it doesn't matter whether it comes up like a year in a year and a half two year like stuff is going to come up and the most essential thing is like how do you work through the stuff when it comes up? Not how long does it take for the stuff to come up?

Yeah. And I feel like that has really changed the way I date in terms of being like, it's not necessarily a fireable offense on the spot. So it's like, how do we potentially like navigate through like having like different gut reactions to things? Well, to that point, yeah. Because that's what it is. Because I think it's more important to figure out how the people we date

respond to us or respond to situations, respond to us not being our best selves, respond to us being our best selves, and how do they interact with that? Because things do come up. And here is this guy demonstrating a level of initiative, but also flexibility and

she's just like no you were supposed to like want the same thing as me and plan that and know exactly what i want and if you're not no problem i just don't want to fuck with you again what's why why i say she'll always be single single because the oversimplification of her would be she's confusing pet peeves with non-negotiables. Totally. She has a list of what she calls non-negotiables, won't take me to dinner on a first date as a non-negotiable. It's really maybe a pet peeve or something she wishes someone might do that. But even then, it's just like you're expecting someone to act as if you are the greatest date they've ever gotten on a first date. They're just trying to figure out whether they like you. If you are operating under,

hey, a first date is not really making sure my date likes me, but I want to make sure I qualify them to see if they're worth my time to really get to know them, they should be doing the same thing regardless of gender. It's two people trying to qualify to make sure like, do I really want to invest and prioritize this person in a sea of options? Do I really want to make sure that this is my person? I want to take some time to get to know them. I feel like it's so easy to kind of like read this interaction and have like a gut reaction of like, oh, this woman is difficult. And it's like, I feel like I've started thinking about it so much more as like, oh, this woman is difficult and it's like i feel like i've started thinking about it so much more as like oh this woman is like really trying to control the outcome of a very uncertain very upsetting process like i think the people who are the most strict and kind of cling with white

knuckles to standards that they set are like if i can do this it will protect me if i can just make sure he's going to work like value me enough to take dinner with me like then he's not going to like blow me off for work in six months down the line and try to make everything into tea leaves that they can use to predict the relationship because dating is exhausting and scary and upsetting. Maybe she's coming off of a fuckboy situationship where he was literally given the bare minimum and here she is trying to kind of enforce these new boundaries he set for herself, being like, I'm not going to like survive off a guy's crumbs.

If that's the case, it's a bit of an overcorrection. Like get to know them first, see how they react and then enforce your boundaries. You got to enforce your boundaries when you are feeling like, you know, when chemistry kicks in, you know, when you when you're tempted to like give in. That's when you got to check yourself. Right. Boundaries inherently require context. Yeah. And she has no context right now. Those non-negotiables and pet peeves. Make sure you have those lined up.

And yes, get to know them first and then kind of evaluate, you know. But man, this guy made a plan, checked in, followed up. A lot of good stuff that, you know, people would like. I'm sure he's off the apps if that's where he wants to be. It sounded like a lot of people on Reddit wanted to get ice cream with him. Do men demonstrating joy and happiness turn you off? Absolutely not. Is it a Nick? Absolutely not. According to one TikTok, a young lady was asked, what is an embarrassing ick or a surprising ick? And she described a time where this man was gleefully playing with balloons with a childlike

sense of wonder. And she couldn't help but feel disgust, repulsed by him. I feel like the ick conversation is really like many conversations out there is really snowballed. One of my new favorite TikTok accounts is Things Men Can't Do. snowballed. One of my new favorite TikTok accounts is Things Men Can't Do. And it's like a satirical account to like response to all the like kind of funny viral TikToks of women talking about the various like ics, which is just a bunch of like kind of petty pet peeves and things like that. Some more realistic than others, but it just basically is just like, it'll be a video of a

guy riding a bike in a way that they're like, ew, ick. And then it's just like it'll be a video of a guy riding a bike in a way that they're like, you ick. And then it's just like, you know, number 22 can't ride bikes. Like all the things that men no longer can do for fear of giving women an ick. And it's like satirical. But I do think, unfortunately, it's it's picked up steam to the point where men are feeling like everything is a potential ick. My favorite TikToks. I don't agree with this girl. My favorite TikToks are the ones where it's just a guy talking. You just kind of see his face and there's like a lot of views.

And I'm like, what's the big deal with this TikTok? And then he moves the camera angle and you can see he's laying down in his bed and his little feet are kicking. I just love that. Kick those little feet. Yeah, be gleeful king I have my boyfriend's best friend sent me a video of them like they have like down time at work

and they're like playing and at one point he kind of like squirts a water bottle by mistake and he's like oh like and he has like the most and I've watched this video so many times like it's the cutest thing I've ever seen like the way he like like chuckles like a fourth grade boy like it's very sweet and endearing seeing someone full of wonder.

What's the most superficial ick you've ever gotten for a guy? You know, in high school when they join a varsity sports team and then they have to shave their head. So many crushes lost over that in high school. Sure. I think the most superficial one is if they've, like, talked about money in a way that i found like that's not superficial i feel like it's a validic like if they're like if we're at a restaurant and they're like commenting on how expensive everything is that's a validic i feel like natalie joked one

time of me driving and like we went on a bump and i like caught air and you know she still loves me but like recognize that like there was a bit of an an ick moment that she powered through. Thank God for the sake of our relationship. And again, if it's like meant in jest and satirical and funny and be like, yeah, I mean, it's not my like it's like everyone poops type of thing where like once you're in a relationship, I guess that would be an ick. But like you don't obsess over it or you power through.

Right. Because I think that's and i get that the account that is totally like satirical but like to be like one woman being like i got nick riding a bike means that men can't ride bikes it's like such a big leap where it's like i think the thing is we need to stop giving ick so much power as like oh my god this ick is like a deal breaker well i think but i think a lot of the conversations are about it, in fact, is a deal breaker. It's not like, don't do that.

It's more like, and immediately he was dead to me. I think I never saw him the same way. Yeah. And then it was like, Which isn't the same as a deal breaker. Well, have a safe trip. We hope to hear from you

while you're down under. We have a great episode lined up for you today. But before we do, just a reminder to send in those questions at asknickatthevilefiles.com for all things Ask Nick. Tomorrow, we have the one and only Elizabeth Wagmeister with us to break down all things reality TV, certainly the Bachelorette and pop culture. It'll be a ton of fun with Elizabeth, your Variety Magazine correspondent, and we are happy to have her once again that is tomorrow the rest of the

week is jam-packed with our episode of going deeper you will not want to miss that a real juicy one for you as well as better date than never live 9 p.m eastern on thursday night and we also as always have your vile files plus your update specials your vanderpump season one recaps let's get to our callers let's ask nick your sexy questions how's it going hi nick um my name is grace i'm 33 and i think i am a little bit emotional abusive with the guy that i've been dating for a month okay well. Well, that's self-aware. How so? How do you feel like you're being emotionally abusive? Okay. So I basically call him out on every single thing that I don't like.

We didn't have the best start when we started dating because he wasn't ready for a relationship. And he was like, I'm not looking for a relationship. That was two years ago. And then I blocked him. Okay. And then a year after, I mean mean a couple of months ago I was going through my whatsapps blocked list and I was like I'm just gonna unblock all those boys you

know let them go like two days after he started texting me asking me out again he's like I'm ready now go out with me and then suddenly one day I was like okay I'm gonna have a drink with you cancelled on my first date rescheduled it you. Canceled on my first date. Rescheduled it for a day after. Canceled on my second date. Rescheduled it for a week after. And then I said, no. Once again, he's been pursuing me.

Finally went out again with him. We met this time. And since then, I really liked him. On this first date, did you talk about how he wasn't ready to be in a relationship two years ago and how he canceled on you twice? Absolutely. Oh, I was definitely very straightforward. I said, I'm not messing around. I don't do the hookup culture. So we can only date if you're ready for the same thing.

Yes, he was ready. He's yes, yes, yes. Like promising and saying all of this stuff. This is all happening on the first date? Oh, yeah. Okay. You are messing around, you know, because someone who... In what way? Because this is the story you told me. You met him a couple years ago. He's like, I'm not ready for a girlfriend. You blocked him. For some abstract reason, you decided to unblock all these guys. You, in your words, setting them free. You blocked him. For some abstract reason, you decided to unblock all these guys. You, in your words, setting them free. You weren't setting them free. You were letting them

out of the cage for them to have access to you again. Now, I don't know what prompted you that. Maybe it was curiosity, boredom. You unblocked them and you gave them access to you. And then they hit you up right away. And then what did you do? do you responded and then you planned a date he canceled plan another date you canceled so you being on that date at all is you playing around because if you weren't playing around you wouldn't have entertained any of it i mean fine i get it you unblocked him he asked you out okay it's been two years maybe he's ready but that first sign of him being a fuck boy still you should have been like well i got my answer hasn't changed so i just take a little self-awareness on you were in fact playing her out and listen i'm not trying to beat you up but like a lot of

people love to say how they don't play games and i i find that those people play the most games because people who don't play games don't have to tell people all the time they don't play games. They just don't. Yeah, I see that. All right. So now we're on our first date. It went really well. First date went well. Second date went well. Third date went well. I mean, all of the dates went well. However, he works two hours away, the town away from London. So he's only home on the weekends. I thought he's a little bit different since he left like two weeks ago.

So I haven't seen him in two and a half weeks. So I kind of called him out on it. Like one Friday, I was like, listen, I just feel like your energy changed. What happened? Everything is OK. He is just not on his phone while he sees his friends. Everything is fine. I'm overthinking.

I was like, OK. Second time, Sepp happened the same. Doesn't call me when he says his friends. Everything is fine. I'm overthinking. I was like, okay. Second time, Sepp happened the same. Doesn't call me when he says he's going to call me. He calls me like 20 minutes after and he's like, oh, I just was busy. Great. What do you mean 20 minutes? He says he's going to call you and you're like 8.01 and then he calls you at 8.21? Pretty much.

Or doesn't. Well, not calling you. I get it. Calling you 20 minutes after he said he was going to seems a bit- Oh, that happens all the time. Do you have set time? Yeah. I always tell him, tell me the time when we're supposed to meet, and then he always reschedules

at the last minute, or I'll be half an hour late. Are we talking meeting or calling? Because, listen, I hate when people are late. For a date, hey, we're meeting at 8, they show up at 8.20, kind of annoying. I guess I'm just trying to figure out how much is it you being a little, like, maybe you need to relax a little bit. And how much does he need to, you know, be a little bit more. My question, exactly.

Yeah. Where does abuse come in? No, I just felt like, so I have an actions attachment and I sometimes feel like I'm a little bit too much. I just felt like, so I have an actions attachment and I sometimes feel like I'm a little bit too much. So I told him, like, I feel the way I was communicating to him, the emotional state I was in was a little bit like, oh, my God, you have to call me. You know, why didn't you call me? And I think he was probably just like, what is going on?

Why do you think emotionally abusive? Because I feel like I'm trying to control him like i'm trying to control the way he's going to i don't know tell me things and give me compliments and um for example i tell him i don't know handsome or something and he's like i know or i miss you and he says i know or i say i appreciate you he says i know and i was like you're hoping for i appreciate you too yeah yeah in my unexpert opinion't, that doesn't sound like abuse. I've never seen anyone inaccurately self-diagnosed themselves, but listen, you clearly put the effort. If nothing else, you are, you know, the last caller, maybe you guys could get together. He was like, he was dating someone who didn't put enough of effort in.

Yeah. You need to pump the brakes a little bit on yourself. My guess is your problem is, is someone who might be a little high strung and needs to relax a little bit, you don't do yourself any favors by investing in people that you seem to be investing in. When a guy shows you his red flags, you're just ignoring them. As someone who- I don't know if I'm wrong. Well, I mean, I'd be willing to bet one of your love languages, words of affirmation. Yeah. And quality time.

Yeah. And both of those, I'm not getting. So here you are acknowledging that you're not getting what you need from this guy in terms of words of affirmation. Your way of going about doing it is being slightly manipulative by complimenting him, hoping that initiates a compliment from him. If that's the worst you're doing, you're doing just fine. But you deserve to have your emotional needs met. You deserve to have be with someone who has no problem saying, hey, I think you're a great person. Here's what I love

about you. I really appreciate you. Not necessarily every day, but from time to time. Now, the question is, how much are you expecting it? Is it a reasonable amount of time or do you need someone to validate you 24-7? What do you think? Well, we were supposed to see each other on Saturday. Okay. He canceled on me because he had a headache. And I expressed that I'm bothered by it.

Fair enough. And I was kind of upset. And he just doesn't get it. I had a phone call with him today. He doesn't get it. He's so oblivious. He's like, everything is fine. Well, maybe it is fine to him. Have you

considered the possibility you're not compatible with him? I did tell him that, yeah. Well, you did. You said, I don't think we're compatible? Yeah, I said it on Sunday. We talked and he's like, I'm really sorry you feel that way. I don't think so. Okay. Did he say why does he disagree with you? If two people are compatible, they should be able to list off what makes them compatible. Yeah. I also even asked him, why do you like me? Because I listened to your book and because we were not at Love You Yet, I said, why do you like me? He said, well, I don't know. There's just something about you. What did I say in my book? I literally say, I don't know. Just something about you is not an acceptable answer.

I don't know. I just something, just something about you is not an acceptable answer. Yeah. Yeah. So you're doing the work, right? You know, you're finding out what your attachment style is. You're reading my book. You're listening to my podcast.

I'm sure you're reading other books and listening to other podcasts and you're talking to your girls, but you're not applying what you're learning or you're just ignoring it. I thought I'm the problem that I was being a little bit. That's why I thought I'm emotionally abusive because I was like, I want this. I want that. I was calling him out. You are your own problem. And he did say, he did say I'm stressing him out. I agree that when it comes to your dating life, that you're your problem.

So it's great that you recognize that because most people are out there just pointing fingers. And so I think if you want to have greater success in love and dating, I think the good news for you is that there's probably things that you can work on. And step one is to just follow through. Trust your gut. I think you over-prioritize validation. out and you quickly responded you were like oh fuck yeah like you got a fix you got a validation fix and you were like yeah let's see if this guy's been thinking about me let's see if this guy's been missing me you know and then he canceled on you and you're like fuck this guy but then he rescheduled you're like oh let's see if he regrets canceling on me you're really hung up on being validated and i think you need to prioritize compatibility more first of all you don't think you two are compatible. So you should be able to articulate that.

You're not saying that as a test. Yeah, I agree with you. Stop testing these guys. Make a decision for yourself. What do you think about this relationship? Well, I don't like that he's constantly canceling on me. He seems a bit inconsiderate, if nothing else. He doesn't see that as a big deal.

Well, I see that as a big deal. Some people are always 20 minutes late. Some people are always 10 minutes early. They might not be compatible. And the people who are always 20 minutes late are always like, what the fuck? I'm here. What's the big deal? Other people are like, it's just fucking rude.

And I'm with you. I'm with you on the rude side. But I don't spend a lot of time trying to change the people who clearly don't want to fix it. So you need to learn about people that you're dating and accept what you learn and stop trying to change them. So you either accept that's who he is or another option, total reason option. You just say, not my person. What if we are compatible in other stuff?

Where, how are you compatible in other stuff? Like, do you, what do you enjoy doing together? We didn't do quite a lot, to be honest, because only been six weeks. I just thought that like, maybe it's worth working on this, like kind of communicate. I don't like when you're late or rescheduling. No, no, no. Hold on. Let's rewind.

It's been six weeks. And in six weeks, when you're dating someone, that's like the honeymoon phase. Like you're supposed, all you're supposed to be doing is having fun with this guy, doing stuff. You can't give me one thing that you have enjoyed doing with him. When few people get together, like, oh, what should we do? Okay. Yeah. That's great. That's awesome. And hopefully the sex is good, but you need to be able to hang out and enjoy hanging out with them. Maybe it's movies you'd like to watch. Maybe it's conversations you like to have. Maybe it's activities you like to do. You have to enjoy hanging out with them. Maybe it's movies you like to watch. Maybe it's conversations you like to have. Maybe it's activities you like to do. You have to enjoy hanging out with the person you're going to invest in. You two don't enjoy hanging out with each

other. You don't even know. No, I just can't get him. He always cancels or reschedules on me. That's the thing. That's not a relationship. That's just you chasing someone for validation. You got him to agree to saying he was going to date you. And then he's just like, all right, well, I'm going to do my version of that. And I'm just going to be willing to put up with her nagging at me so that I get consistent sex. Well, when you say it like that, it doesn't sound good. I'm just kind of repeating back your words. You're close, right?

Your gut told you that you weren't compatible. Your gut told you that you're not even sure what he liked about you, that he couldn't communicate anything. And so you had the guts to ask him. And you know what he said? I don't know. There's just something about you. And you told me that you listened to a book that said, that is not an acceptable answer.

That is a bullshit answer. That is an answer for someone who just likes the idea of having a girlfriend and regular sex, of which there are many people like that. And you want someone to appreciate you and to communicate how they appreciate you. And that's a valid request. And yet he's not doing that. And you're not seeing that as maybe this isn't my person. You're seeing it as a challenge. And so, yeah, I think you're the problem. Again, as most of us are, you're investing in the wrong people. What is it about him? Is he hot? Is he a hottie? Well, yeah. And we also have fun together.

Doing what? What do you have fun doing together? We went for a walk and we went out and we had dinner and because didn't have as much time to spend with him because he's always like busy. So you so far have been enjoying looking at his face. Yeah. You're like on a walk with a hot guy and that makes me feel good. And we have a good chemistry. Chemistry is nice. I mean, I think a lot of people relate to you. I relate to you. Like I'm a a big believer, if you listen to the show, is controlling what you can control. It's like you're trying to do that, you know, in a weird way. And people talk a lot about like a victim mentality, right?

You have the opposite of a victim mentality. Because again, for the people who are thinking, well, I'm going to control what I control. I'm not going to worry about other people. You're kind of doing what you're doing. You almost put more on yourself. Well, the more it's my fault, the more I can control it. I mean, I've done that. I mean, I had one breakup where I just like figured out

how I could make it my fault because once I made it my fault, then I knew I could fix it. Yeah, I think this is the thing because I want it to come from my point of view because if I'm coming from me, as you said, then I can fix it and kind of make this work. But I guess it's not working that way.

Yeah, chemistry is great. It's hard to trust. I think he's just a hottie that you enjoy having sex with that when he is nice to you and he gives you a little bit of validation, you're just a bit of a validation addict. It just keeps you around, but you just got to trust your gut, you know, and you're doing this thing now where you read a book or you listen to a podcast and you're there, you're close, right? Because you're able to communicate. You're able to say, I'm not playing around. I'm not doing this. But you have to go some steps further. You have to hold yourself accountable for the boundaries. You're not setting boundaries for yourself. If you are, you're just blowing past them. But you're feeling like, well, if I just communicate the boundary or I set the expectation,

then that will be enough. And early on, it's one thing, I've been in a relationship for a while. Yeah, you work through things and you have some rough patches, but this guy is giving you literally no sign or reason that he's willing to work with you and get to know you and build a connection and meet your emotional needs, be available, you know, make you feel like a priority, not doing any of that. Yeah. The only way he's doing it is by saying it, but actions and it doesn't add up the actions and what he's saying. And he just doesn't get it. He just doesn't get it.

Yeah. But today he called me and he just was like, he doesn't know what's going on. Cause I've been, I pulled back a little bit. I just kind of got a little ick from all of it. Um, so I pulled back and I wanted to talk to you before I do anything. Um, and he's just doesn't know. He's like, we didn't really talk lately. And I was like, well, yeah.

What is going on? Like, that's exactly. Yeah. It's like, listen, we didn't really talk, but here's the thing. I like talking to the people I'm dating. I like quality time is important to me. And if it's not important to you, that's okay. I just don't think we're compatible. And if he's like, well, I think we are, then literally say what I'm saying to you is how do you know what compatibility means? You have the option to leave. You never take advantage of that, that power that you have to just walk away and just accept that like, you know, listen, most of the guys I date, I'm not going to be compatible with.

They're not going to be my person. And you're doing the thing where it's just like you meet a guy who you like their face and you have a little bit of chemistry with, and then you try to make them into your person. Yes. Okay. This is exactly what my therapist said. Well. little bit of chemistry with and then you try to make them into your person yes okay this is exactly what my therapist said well well um and also as you know i mean maybe you don't know but dating nowadays is a mess so i was kind of hoping let's make this work um so i don't have to date that makes so much sense trust me i'm right there with you i understand fucking nightmare

it's horrible it's so so horrible everybody hates so much easier when you do the like you're you could be so much easier if you just incorporated some of these things you're working so hard and learning and set boundaries with yourself and hold yourself accountable and stop making excuses for these people or excuses for yourself and being more self-aware about how much you enjoy validation and your willingness to ignore your boundaries for the fix of some validation. You're making dating so much harder on yourself. Yes, there's plenty of shitty guys in there that make dating hard, but there are a lot of things you can control that you're not controlling. And I don't mean making their problems yours. Because it's like if you're suffering and you're dealing with tough shit, you want it to be in service of something. Dating sucks. I feel like

dating for most people these days is suffering. It sucks. I could go on and on about it. But you're suffering because you're hoping to meet someone who you could really connect with and who you could like build a relationship with and who could be like a companion through life and brighten your days. Right now you're suffering like and it doesn't seem like there's anything to build. So it's like you're going to suffer either way. At least be suffering in a way that's like productive and like moving you towards your goals. Don't argue with this guy. It's just not worth your energy. How old are you again? I'm 33. He's 29. Okay. I mean, you're still super young. I mean, you're dating someone younger than you, three years younger, and he sounds 22. And I thought he's the mature one because he didn't have these anxious thoughts. He's like, he seems very secure in himself. That doesn't mean he's the mature one because he didn't have these anxious thoughts. He's like, he seems very secure in himself. That doesn't mean he's mature.

Yeah. Sometimes you're not anxious because you're not considering other people. Like for me, a lot of anxiety comes from like, I'm like, oh God, what is this person thinking? What did that mean? Like sometimes you're not anxious because you're just thinking about your own worldview and you haven't even taken into account that there could be ways that you could be affecting other people. He did say he's very chilled.

And okay, I forgot to say this on Sunday. He says he's just going with the flow. This is where something snapped. I was like, yeah, I don't think this is going to work. And I have to be patient with him. No, you don't. You do not have to be patient. You have no reason to be patient with him. He's giving you nothing to get patient about. And he has the right to say that, too. But you also have the right to say, no, I don't. And listen, you just calmly say, I just don't think we're compatible. I just want someone who likes hanging out with me. And if he hits you with the, I can change, like you can be like, for me, compatibility

is someone who's willing to listen to me before an ultimatum comes into play. Like listens to me before they're going to lose me. Like, Grace, are you going to end this? Like, what is like, because it just seems like it's very easy to be captivated because he's charming and it's fun. And then you don't want to be like, I get that. It's so hard to, like, feel like you're being disruptive to harmony or like you're being unchill. Like, I really struggle with that. But like, it seems like kind of based on your conversation with Nick, you really have your answer.

Like, do you feel like you're ready to put it into action? The thing is, when I talk to him, he's completely like it's really hard he's he's oblivious he's so nice and sweet and listening to me i get how you feel i'm so sorry like really nice but then once we hang up or the actions come in place it's the 180 i don't know i feel like i'm being manipulated at this point well that's why i'm saying like don't know. I feel like I'm being manipulated at this point. in the future when you meet someone yeah you can still probably chill out probably a little bit it's no point you know if they're a little bit later this you know like if they're calling you at 8 15 instead of 801 it's fine it's not a big deal and i thought that i'm expecting a bit too much um and that saying to him i'm gonna leave if this doesn't happen was like emotionally manipulating so that's why i thought that maybe i'm coming on too strong hurting

people's feelings is not emotionally manipulative like it might hurt his feelings a little bit but ultimately like that's not emotional manipulation like some it's like that's the shitty part it's like sometimes you just have conflicting needs with people and it sucks because you want to feel like there's a compromise everyone's manipulative it's good that you recognize it but yeah it's babies are manipulative they're not abusive you know You ever meet like a three-year-old, little fuckers, you know? Dogs? Dogs, yeah. Dogs are manipulative.

Super manipulative. Anyway, I'm sorry you're going through this, but you're close. I really think the biggest thing, if there's any takeaway you have from this conversation, is to try to recognize when you are focusing on validation and that fix of someone giving you the attention that you're starving for making up for everything else that's not being met and the occasional fix of validation isn't supposed to make up for the consistency of that security and you know understanding and being on the same page and being compatible and having an understanding of expect and mutually you know on the same page of expectations it's definitely a bit too early for those kind of feelings and if you like someone who like wants to take it slow then fine but then you have to then accept that's their boundary. Hey, I'm not looking for a relationship right now. I need to take things slow. Okay, fine. That's them setting a boundary

with you. So either respect their boundary and take it slow or move on or block them like you did. But don't try to take it slow all while trying to mold them into the boyfriend that you want and then freaking yourself out when they don't meet your needs. Meanwhile, they're like, I told you I want to take it slow. Yeah. I mean, it's funny that he didn't say anything. We did speak about talking to each other honestly, but he was like, no, everything is okay. You have a problem with me, not me with you.

Yeah. He's not saying I need to take it slow. He's just being so cavalier and nonchalant and like making, you know, it's just like, all right, well, we're not going to argue with him. We're just going to calmly let him know that he's not your guy. And then we'd love an update. Okay. Okay.

Oh, definitely. I'll let you know. All right. We'll take care. Thanks for calling. All right. Bye-bye. BetterHelp.

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money. Can't beat that. Rakuten.com. Enjoy. How's it going? Good. I'm Tommy. I'm 40, three months post-breakup, and I'm debating reaching out to her and finding her for us. Okay. All right. Well, since I don't typically advise that, I'd love to know, how long did you date for? Almost eight years. Eight years. Okay. A long time. First of all, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. It sounds like maybe this wasn't your choice. Did you see it coming? I had a feeling. And I guess I always thought that we could just work through things. Okay. Let me ask you this question.

Honest answer. What would you say on a scale of one to 10, 10 being deliriously happy and one being generally miserable. What was your happiness level in the relationship in the months, you know, leading up to the breakup? Confidently, I can probably say like a five. Okay. So it sounds like if I'm reading that right, you know, you had your good moments and bad moments, but like, you know half the time the the relationship brought you a lot of frustration uh uh yeah okay you can say that maybe not really the relationship but just maybe the fact that she was saying that she was trying that she wasn't actually trying so what what was leading up to the breakup or were you the who who had more of the issues or what were the issues i started

feeling you know uh about maybe two years ago that she wasn't really trying to speak my love languages and whenever i flagged it you know she would say stuff like oh that doesn't really work for me you know and then she misinterpreted because physical touch is one of my biggest um love languages and she misinterpreted that it's just like you know intimacy and i'm like no sometimes a nice hug is all i need right yeah and so why why why do you want to fight for if i were to ask your ex like tell me about the relationship Why did you break up with him? What do you think she would say? When we broke up, which was over the phone, by the way,

she kept saying like, early on, you treated me like, because early on it was like, I had just come out of a divorce. Okay. And I was still trying to like, I was afraid to jump back into something. Sure. And have it fail again. Right. Because I thought if I to like, I was afraid to jump back into something and have it fail again. Right. Cause I thought if I'm getting married, that's it.

This is for life. Right. So early on, I was like, look, if you want to just hang out and have something strictly physical, I'm okay with that until I can kind of gauge the situation. Yeah. So I guess we started that and it was fine. And then she raised some concerns and okay, we adjusted. But I think her theory was that i

wasn't bringing her around i wasn't introducing her as you know my girlfriend and stuff like that and it kind of made her feel like she wasn't that important gotcha and and then how long ago was that that was at the beginning of the relationship like maybe seven years ago and then when she broke up with you she brought that up she brought up the trauma and how that made her feel and stuff like that right so but like the thing that basically drove her to the breakup was leading up to it we're having a lot of issues like in different departments of the relationship like intimacy was a big one like it was basically it went from like okay to somewhat regular to not so regular to non-existent and i was trying to do everything i could to kind of not allow it to go on that downward

slope. And when you said non-existent, am I hearing you correctly that you wanted to be intimate and did you ultimately feel like she didn't? Yeah, I know because I was always the one initiating and I was being told my timing's always off. And we would go months without it.

Is there any chance that she met someone else? That's what I thought. And I actually asked her about it. I actually flat out told her, I'm like that she met someone else that's what i thought and i actually asked her about it i actually flat out told them like is there someone else because if there is just tell me you know i'll go this way you were that way and it's fine but just don't tell me that you want me and then you don't actually want me and i mean she obviously denied it but do you believe her i and i only bring this up just because it is a weird thing for her to bring up that seven years ago. You know, you've been dating for eight years and all of a sudden she just brings up as to like, I can't get over the past trauma of seven years.

Like, okay. But like you can if you wanted to. Certainly therapy for her, for both of you. There's ways to, based on what you're telling me while i can appreciate her frustrations i mean shit like you know my relationship started that way i was you in that situation and it can be frustrating for the people involved but the way you're telling the story it seems odd that she would have a hard time that that she would hang on to that and then you tell me about the intimacy depleting and then she says your timing's off. It sounds like she's coming up with excuses because she doesn't want

to tell you the truth. Why do you want to fight for this relationship? Because of five, you've been in it for eight years. Why? Like marriage. I know you guys were married before. I know you have kids. Was marriage just not on the table? Were you guys just two people who were like, hey, we've already been married, we have a kid, that's not in the cards for us? Or did you guys talk about marriage? Like eight years is a long time. We did.

Originally, the plan was let's figure us out and let's see how we can make it work with the girls because the girls on either side, like on my ex's side, on her ex's side, kind of got thrown into the situation where it was just them and the parent. And then like on her child's side, the dad like introduced this girl

and the girl was like sleeping on the couch. The first week, the second week, she moved to the bed. And then it was like, so the girl thought like, daddy's bringing this girl in to replace mommy. And he never really properly explained to her the situation.

So it really affected her. And same with my daughters, you know, her mom introduced this guy and then the guy brought in the kids and then it was a lot of change. So that one-on-one time that she had became less and less and less. So we, our main concern was let's make it work for the girls. Cause we know we can make it work. Yeah. And so did you guys live together? No, I would go and spend the weekends there. Gotcha. So why, what, back to like, why do you want to fight for this relationship? I mean, cause eight years, that's all that's, it's a big, been a big part of your life. She broke up with you over the phone that obviously feels shitty, you know, and then her

reasoning feels confusing. If nothing else, you don't feel like you've had closure. But what is it you want to fight for? Because a five doesn't sound pretty awesome. Other than missing her, other than being single and being surprised, ultimately also feeling rejected because she was the one to do it. But you're at a crossroad. And so now you have two choices. One kind of work on yourself for a bit, reset.

You're only 40, you know, take some time for yourself, reflect, you know, maybe I do it. Do you, do you do any therapy?

I do actually. Okay. Because her and I were doing couples there. Okay. And then I had started, so I was, we were doing couples therapy and I was doing my own therapy. And the plan was for her to do her own therapy, but she never started because apparently there wasn't enough time.

That's another kind of maybe red flag too, right? So how did couples therapy go? How often were you guys going to couples therapy? We were doing it, when we first started, we were doing it almost every week. Okay. Which was her suggestion, right? She's like like maybe we start couples therapy i was like okay great and literally the next day i i jumped on and i started doing it

but then i i would notice that every time i'd have to remind her i'm like but you're you're right here when we book the sessions just pull your phone out and then that was like why do i have to remind you every time of so we started every week but then we moved to every two weeks yeah and then when she was saying that i want to do my own therapy, but there's not enough time because we're doing couples therapy. I said, okay. So I stopped the couples therapy to open up that opportunity for her to have more time to herself. And it still didn't drive her to pick up the phone and find a therapist. I've learned now that I'm out of it that she's very much an avoidant.

She doesn't like facing her issues head on. Yeah, because I guess what I'm saying. So back to what I was saying, you're at this fork in the road. So you can invest in yourself, you continue to therapy, kind of reset, heal a little bit because listen, it takes time to heal. Three months isn't a great deal of time getting over an eight-year relationship. As I've often said, just because you're sad doesn't make them special. You have the right to be sad right

now. You have the right to miss them. She was such a big part of your life. You got to know her child. She got to know yours. It makes a ton of sense why you're not over it yet. But I'm not sure what you're fighting for other than familiarity. If you were to reach out to her, it's like, what would you say? I imagine you thought about this. What would be your pitch? And not like a pitch to like, hey, like to beg for her back, but what would be your pitch as to why the two of you, why it would make sense for the two of you to say, you know what? We've tried for this long. I know it didn't work out. I know you decided to leave. Here's what we haven't been doing that i think can allow us to get to where we want to be so that we can both be happy like what's that

pitch sound like to actually both be putting in the effort but i felt like my level of effort yeah it was probably i don't want to say way higher but was more than she was putting in right in my opinion yeah that's fair one of the reasons why i would want to fight for it because it's like whatever issues we had weren't like uh irreparable they weren't like weren't something that you cannot overcome i hear you but don't you want someone who wants to fight for you in the relationship because it'd be one thing if you call if you called me up and was like hey man i've been in this girl for eight years she broke up with me and if i'm being honest i've been dating this girl for eight years. She broke up with me. And if I'm being honest, I've been sitting here for the past three months reflecting. And I'm now realizing that she put in a ton of effort. And I honestly, I think I was giving like 30% of what I could give. She told me that her love language, physical touch. And, but I was like, I kind of stone

well there and said, it's not what I do. Then I would be like, all right, well, are you really committed to doing this? Because why didn't you do that while you're in a relationship but nevertheless if you really are committed to doing this then like sure man like go for it but like your pitch is to call her up and say i think you need to try harder and i'm sure you've already said that and her breaking up with you i'm sad to say is basically her saying i don't want to do this anymore. I don't want to fight for anymore. Whatever it is I need to do for the relationship. I think she just was kind of checked out. I hear where you're coming from. I mean, would I pitch the idea of you need to try harder? No, I think I would pitch it more in a way of, I think if we were to, you know.

Yeah. But I guess what I'm saying is it doesn't matter how you pitch it. Ultimately, that's what she needs to do for you to be happy. So when she's like, I can't be with you right now, it's her saying, I can't give you what you want. So you can sugarcoat it all you want and try to spin it and try to repackage it. But ultimately, what you need out of this relationship is for her to do 100% of her half. And right now she's doing 50 or 25 or whatever.

There's no point in reaching out to her. You have been fighting for you guys. She hasn't been fighting for you guys. So you reaching out to fight for her is just you doing the same thing that you did in the relationship that didn't work. And I think the best thing you can do right now, if you want to keep that door or window open

for a possible reconciliation, is make her miss you. Be your best self, investing yourself. Go out there and become an eligible bachelor where you get a little confidence and you feel like you have maybe two or three women that you're interested in who seem to be excited about you and you get a little pep in your step. You get a little confidence. If anything was going to make her realize that she's lost something special and that

she took you for granted and wasn't willing to meet you in the middle and put the effort that you feel like you were putting into that relationship, that's what it's going to take. It's for her to realize that she lost you and that she can have you back. And I don't think it's going to be calling her up and pining her and, and lecturing her essentially. And that's what it's going to feel like to her of like new ways of what she can try harder. No, I agree.

And I've maintained like no contact since, you know, she broke up with me. Oddly enough enough i bumped into her two weeks ago how'd that go well i wasn't expecting it and it was at a a friend of mine's birthday uh dinner like we went to dinner and then later later on the night we went out and then she walked in uh and the people that had invited her didn't know that we were broken up either she didn't tell them or i don't know what it was but it caught me off guard yeah uh and i debated whether or not i should go up and talk to her what'd you do i eventually went over on my way to go use the restroom and i spoke to her briefly for like whatever it was 10 minutes and hey how you doing good okay great how's life how's

this we got caught up it was really interesting night because i had started tonight i like i was not thinking about her like and then when they when she walked in all the girls were like oh my god is that her we'll make her jealous we'll do this we'll do that i'm like okay just let's slow down we don't need to be you know going to that level but i've always kind of played this scenario in my mind but then when it happened i was like uh yeah right and what was this totally understandable right and then you're in your head and your ego's wondering if she's going to be triggered by you and how is she going to be affected? Is she going to feel the same feelings that you felt? It's going to bring up a lot of emotion. You've had two and a half months of not talking to her, trying to move on, and then you ran into

her at a party and it becomes this game between two people who are broken up to who can pretend to give the least amount of shits. And you don't even know who's being ingenuine because it's kind of a performative for self-preservation. So I empathize why it rattles you. But even hearing that, I feel even more confident that your feelings of questioning whether you should reconcile has more to do with the fact that you saw her and it kind of rattled your cages and it made you think about her a little bit and she hasn't reached back out to you. So that kind of makes you want her more. I'm not hearing anything that makes me hear, yeah, boy, if you guys would have just done this, there's a lot of love here. Maybe you just have to accept that you put in your effort, you tried, you had a good eight

years with a nice person. she definitely could have called you or like over the phone is annoying and it sucks honestly in the long run it's a gift it's a gift that you're gonna be able when you move on forward you're gonna be like yeah and she fucking broke up with me over the phone she sucks you know and i'm sure she doesn't suck as a person but it you know you need to get a little angry you know i don't know if you've gotten angry yeah or you know but like it's it's gift that way, but ultimately did you really want to sit down and have her explain to you, you know, and she clearly wasn't going to want to give you straight answers. I do think, I hope I'm not like fucking with you and I'm not, I hope I'm not,

I don't want you to get off the phone and start stalking her or finding out. Cause it doesn't matter. You're broken up, but it wouldn't shock me if her eyes were at least for wondering and she's out there she's dating you know and again shit in six months she could easily come back is it that hard to believe that after eight years she met someone new and everything about them is just different than you right it's not though they're better or worse it's different and then you know this new new guy will like, his warts will come out. It's not hard to believe that things could break up in a few months and then all of a sudden she gets bored and lonely, you get a call. My advice to you is I would let that running into her two weeks ago just kind of wash over you. Try not to obsess over it.

Rethink about all the things and all the efforts you put in that relationship over the past year. Focus on the fact that you yourself weren't that happy in that relationship. Quite honestly, I think five is generous. It sounds like you were really frustrated for a long time. And it's even more frustrating when you're the one who feels like, I'm trying here, and only to get a bunch of excuses as to why your partner can't try. And then tell yourself, hey, listen, like I'm still young. I still have a lot of life ahead of me. I have a lot of options if I decide to go into the dating pool in terms of like potential people I could date. And so like, I'm just going to heal a little bit. I'm going to

make sure I'm in a good place and I'm going to take my time and I'm going to enjoy being single for a while and it will let things play out. Maybe that will wake her up. Maybe not, but that's not going to be your goal. And with the focus of, I want to be with someone who wants to work with me on a relationship and wants to put in the effort, because it sounds like you felt like she wasn't working with you to make the

relationship work. And that's super frustrating. Yeah, it is. Yeah. But I got to a point where I was like, I had like my thing that I'm working on with myself and with my therapist is that I suck at setting boundaries, right?

If I do, I'll set a boundary and then it looks like a soft boundary, right? Sure. I'm not really good at going, bam, this is what it is. And it's not like, I don't want to say non-negotiable, but like one easy thing that I asked of her was like, look, whatever we talk about or whatever issues

we're having in our relationship, all I ask is that it stays between us. And I remember one day she looked at me in the face, like, well, I share everything with my, with my best friend. So that's just going to be that way. And I was like, but. Well, keep in mind, that's, that's more of an expectation. A boundary is something you're setting with yourself. It's more like, Hey, I'm, I'm, my boundary is I want to be with someone who I can trust in terms of the expectations we have in terms of who we call our secrets. That's an expectation you set with her about a boundary you have for yourself. If you're having a hard time with boundaries, it's you're not enforcing the boundaries you

set for yourself, which sounds like I would agree with because again, maybe you have that fixer mentality. You set some boundaries with yourself. You communicate those expectations, but they don't do it. And you take it as, well, I need to try harder. I need to figure out a new solution, which is what you're doing with her right now. You're like, oh, I found out she's like an avoidant person, which maybe that's true, but that's a her problem. That's not your problem. And you're seeing it as like, well, now that I know what's wrong with her, now I can figure out how to fix her or I can fix us. If she's not interested in finding out that she has some sort of avoidant attachment style and something she needs to work on through therapy, which she hasn't gone to, it's never going to change. And letting her know that she's avoidant

isn't going to help your situation with her. So that's her journey. That's not your journey. And it's a nice data point for you, but it's really just a data point for you to be like, well, that's another data point as to why maybe we're not the right fit. Because she was someone who had this kind of attachment style that wasn't productive in a relationship. She also had an unwillingness to do anything about it. And I want to be in a relationship with someone at this point in my life as a four-year-old man with a kid that, listen, if I'm going to invest in a relationship, I want someone who's at least want to invest with me, who wants to work through our problems and be reasonable and not just say, well,

that doesn't work for me when it doesn't work for her. And then when people do that, you know what people do? They're like, all right, well, then you start picking up her slack. And you start doing the stuff that- That's what I was doing, yeah. Yeah, but why do you want to keep doing that? I'm not hearing any reason why you should get back together with her. I just think I'm hearing you need to focus on yourself. Can you stick with that therapy?

Good for you. Keep working on setting those boundaries with yourself and getting good at enforcing them with yourself. Heal, invest in yourself, get into some hobbies, feel good at enforcing them with yourself, heal, investing yourself, get into some hobbies, feel good about yourself, get some confidence, slowly start the date and see what happens. And if she wants to reach out to you and discuss reconciliation, that's when you can say, hey, listen, obviously I don't want to break up. I love you. Hell, I thought about fighting for you, but these were the things that I was unhappy with and you seemed unwilling to do in a relationship.

Are you really willing to do it now? And then you can figure it out then. But I do not think you should reach out to her only to point out the things that you want her to work on if she wants to get back together with you. I don't think it's going to go the way you hope. I agree. I think if I'm pointing these things out, she already knows. Yeah. She's heard it from you a hundred times. Yeah. But for me, it's like,

we had all this love for like, you know, eight years and the last two or three, like we grew even closer together. Like the girls were doing well and like we were kind of making life work. I think that was for me, the reason of like going back and be like, well,

why, like, why are we just ending it like this? Cause like I tell my therapist, I'm always going to have like a question mark around the solution. You got it. Yeah, yeah.

How did it end? It ended because she just didn't want to. That's it. Exactly. There's no real reason. But that, no, no, no. That is a real reason. That's what you're not getting.

That's one of the biggest reasons. I was in a relationship with someone. Relationships take two people giving 100% of their energy to make this relationship work. It's hard. It's difficult. Even the best relationships take a ton of work. And you were with someone who didn't want

to try. That fucking matters. That matters big time. And yes, you had eight years of connecting and you have the right to mourn those eight years and the loss of that. That's totally understandable. But that is a good reason. That's a good reason for you to have broken up with her. Listen, what you're going through is so normal, right? It's just like you want it to mean something. You feel like it meant a lot. That's eight years of your life, man. It didn't go anywhere. Those are memories. And now you get to find something new and make new memories and hopefully have a healthier relationship. Stop treating like, well, now because it's over, you have to forget it ever existed. Right now, you don't want to think about it because it's hurtful. You haven't moved on. And I totally get it. But I think a good boundary

that you could set for yourself and work on is to stop doing other people's jobs when it comes to their role in a relationship. Stop trying to be the fixer. Set your expectations with whoever you want to date. And if they don't want to meet your expectations, then evaluate how that means about your relationship, but don't find a new way to try to get them to do their job. Her not wanting to be in the relationship is a great reason for you two not being together. And it's hard and it hurts the ego and you want there to be some big fucking justification you know that's why people like oh it'd be easier if i just found out you fucked another person and blah blah blah because at least like you know but

like she didn't want to try no and i think for me it's like it kind of makes me second guess like okay does that mean like this whole time that you were saying you love me you actually didn't love me but you're just saying it yeah that's kind of you're just beating yourself up man i'm sure she i'm sure she loved you a great deal for a period of time and in in between that were yeah there were periods of where she loved you but wasn't in love with you i don't know don't don't try to dissect every day of that relationship overall there, there was love there. You had a great relationship overall. It was eight years. Hell, I've never had an eight-year relationship. Congratulations. But in those eight years, you had your ups and downs, but finally it ran its course.

And she decided she wasn't willing to give you what you needed and you deserve to have those needs be met. And you're plenty young enough to find that with someone. And so just accepting that she wasn't that person for you. And there's plenty other people who might be willing to give that to you. And you can be in a relationship where when I ask you, generally speaking, how happy are you? You're like, yeah, eight, nine, mostly. Yeah. Five, four. We've had a two in there, but like, I'm an eight. I'm a nine. You can have that. And so stop settling for a five. You're like a love martyr. You know, it's like the more I try,

the more harder I work, the more the love is special. Like there's no points for that, man. You know, you deserve to get your, your emotional needs met. And you just have to accept this relationship for what it was.

Most importantly, it's over now. You have to accept that mourn the loss say goodbye to it do whatever you want to do maybe in therapy have some sort of you know but like just you just have to accept and stop trying to break down every day and analyze it and what does it mean and did it mean anything well last thursday when she said you know like two years ago on christmas blah blah blah when she said it did she really mean it then? I don't know.

Maybe she was in a bad mood. You know, you just got to accept. Definitely early on in the breakup, I was, you know, kind of going through everything. But then I've gotten a bit better now. Like the first month of it. I think running into her two weeks ago rattled you and fucked you up a little bit. It would fuck me up. If it took you six,

six, nine months to get over this relationship, it would make sense. After that, I would be like, Hey man, but like you're on the path, man, just keep going.

Don't go backwards. Go forward. All right. All right. Well, good luck. I want, we'd love an update.

I'd love an update on your progress in a month or two from now, how you're doing, what's your mentality, who are you are and kind of accepting it. Have you gone out and started dating? How's therapy going? Are you getting better at boundaries?

We'd love an update from you. Okay, will do. All right, take care, buddy. All right. All right, bye-bye. Thank you, you too. Helix sleep! Oh my God,

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How long have you known about this? It's been, I want to say a month now. Okay. I've been friends with her for a year and she currently has a boyfriend she's been with for two years. He's a mechanic and they live together and they share an apartment together. And she doesn't want to leave him because they share a lease until March. And she can't afford to live on her own. He has also like cheated on her in the past.

She caught him sexting other girls on his phone. And the first time she caught him, she cheated on him, but he didn't know. Like she went and slept with somebody, I guess, to kind of retaliate against him. He has no idea she did that. And then two other times she found out again that he cheated on her again

because she looks through his phone and that's how she found out. And then recently she told me that uh she met somebody and it was weird to me because i was like you're with somebody and last she told me she was going to try to make it work out with her current boyfriend his name is kai just so it's not confusing and so she told me that so there was somebody she knew when she was in high school and it was her coach and she was like 17 18 high school, and it was her coach. And she was like 17, 18 at the time. And he was her coach in wrestling.

And he would take her back and forth to meets. And she said they were friends when she was in high school. And then they kind of lost touch when he got married. And then he recently got divorced. And I guess he found her on Instagram and started to hit her up. And one thing led to another, and she went out on a date with him, even though she's with somebody and he knows she's with somebody. And she said that it went really well, but they didn't have sex.

I just don't know what to do because it feels wrong. She doesn't see anything wrong with it. She doesn't think that it's a red flag that the fact that he knew her when she was like, it bothers me the fact that she, he knew her when she was in high school, he's 40 and she's 25 right now. But she thinks just because she's an adult now that, oh, he was, he's not weird for reaching out to her. And I just, it also bothers me at the fact that she, that he's okay with helping her cheat. Like that's another thing, but I can't talk her out of anything. Have you tried? Like what conversations have you had with her i was like well can you at least wait till like after you break up with kai for trying to persuade anything with this other guy because she has a tendency to hop from a bad relationship to the next and i was trying to tell her that and

it was like she wasn't listening to me. What is she saying? She was like, well, she told me that, well, she's been mentally checked out with Kai for the past couple months, so she's basically been alone. And she doesn't want to stop seeing the other guy. So it sounds like her plan is just like, date this guy until the lease runs out?

Pretty much. And she, I was like, how can you pretend? Or until she gets a new boyfriend who will take her in so to speak pretty much so the other week she wanted to talk to me again and she was like oh i have some more news and i was like oh no i like i was hoping she would tell me she ended it with the other guy but she did not and she was like oh i'm still seeing him like so she's been using a lot of excuses to be away from him like saying she's with her other friend uh her other friend Nicole and um she'll like disappear for some nights and

say she's staying the night there and he thought that was off and so he reached out to her friend Nicole and was like hey is she doing okay because she's been acting different lately and her friend Nicole covered for her and was like oh I don I don't know. And, um, she said, whenever she got back to talk with Kai, uh, they had to talk about like, she just needs some space right now, but they're still together. And apparently they talked about like, if they did break up, that he would move out and help pay for the lease for like three months or something. But I just don't understand why she didn't take that opportunity to just break up with him and i asked her that and she was like so he's a mechanic and right now i guess she's having some kind of car issue and she was like well i want to i have

something that uh with my car that i need to get fixed right now and i want to fix it for me so i'm gonna wait like this is it and then wait a month and break up with him and it's just uh it gave me major ick and i just didn't know what to say yeah so i guess listen you've already tried to talk to her right so you and i can sit here and try to workshop you know different things you could say to her that's one option or you could just maybe just stop being friends with her yeah that's kind of what i want to do but i just don't know how to go about doing that. Cause she hasn't been like a bad friend to me. It's just,

I don't want to be associated with somebody that does that. I think that's kind of what you say. Well, cause you're right. You're just like, listen, like, you know,

as always, you do it nicely. You always try to empathize. You always try to be kind and lead with love, but you just sit her down and say, Hey, listen, like I love our friendship. You've always been good to me and i appreciate that but you know that

obviously i've had some concerns with some of your choices when it comes to you and your boyfriend i have a kind of a non-negotiable i just i just think infidelity and cheating and lying is wrong i don't think there's ever a valid excuse for it. I'm sorry that he did that to you. It's not okay what he did to you, but it still doesn't make it okay what you did to him. You could have broke up with him. And sometimes doing the right thing is hard. And I don't think there's ever an excuse. And you seem to always be willing to make excuses for this behavior of lying and manipulating and using people, using people you say you care about. It's gotten really easy for you to be deceitful. You don't think twice about lying. And I don't think you've ever lied to me. And I'm not even

here to ask you if you have, but I just, I can't be friends with someone who continues this pattern and it breaks my heart, but I just can't. And it's going to be a tough conversation and there might be tears and she might get mad, but trust your gut because you're right. Who you surround yourself with matters. I mean, I don't know if she's a toxic person, but she is certainly being very toxic right now. And listen, some people lose their way. It happens. But it's hopefully friends like you that say that, you know, she's lucky to have you. She's lucky to have a friend who was at least willing to check her, you know, and say, hey, wake up. But she's not listening.

And you can say, listen, until you start making different choices, I just, I can't be around you anymore. And if you realize what you're doing and make some changes, I'd love to like find a way for us to spend time together, but I can't get behind what you're doing. It's not okay. And I feel really icky about being aware of this and hiding it from people. So I just don't want to be involved anymore. The fact that he did this to her multiple times, you know, it's like, if you would have told me like,

this guy's obsessed, or he loves her, he's great to her, and yada, yada, then I'd be like, he deserves maybe to know, you know,

but the fact that they, they seem to be incredibly toxic, and doing this to each other, maybe you just need to remove yourself, and just, yeah, I would say some version of that to her, and it's not going to be easy,

it's going to be super awkward, but you're, you're protecting yourself, your character, your credibility, you did the the right thing you're giving her a window to make changes in her life i don't think she's going to take it very well at first but she's clearly just not seeing things clearly there's one or two things going on with her either she's just not a good person she has a completely different value system than you you're not aligned in terms of like what it means to have good character or bad character. Or she's just in a rut right now. She's making some bad and toxic choices. She feels stuck. But despite you trying to help her, she's not willing to listen. And you can with love. I can't do this right now.

And hopefully you realize what I'm saying and make some choices. And I hope we can be friends again. And I hope I can have you in my life. But while this is going on, I just don't want to be a part of it. I don't want to be a part of the lies. I don't want to be a part of the deceit. I just don't think it's okay. And I can't condone this behavior. And I want to have your back.

But if I'm being honest, this is me having your back because I don't want to cover for your lies. I don't want to be put in a spot and I think you're better than this. That's the tone. You're better than this. I believe in you and I don't like what you're doing to yourself.

Without a boundary, I don't want to be around someone who is actively having an affair and cheating on their boyfriend. I mean, the teacher, him older is the least of her concerns right now. It's definitely weird that he was her teacher in high school and he reached out, but they are both adults now. So you're just going to get yourself in the weeds trying to argue with her

and shame her for that choice. And my guess is you're probably right. My guess is right now she's just someone who's used to being in a relationship and she's checked out of this one. And now she's trying to find her next boyfriend. And this guy's giving her attention. She has this pattern of, like you said, like, you know, at this point, you have no reason not to be honest, you know, never be mean, but you have no reason not to say like, listen,

I'm just concerned because you seem to go from one toxic relationship to another. And starting off a relationship with someone who knows you're cheating on someone, they can't possibly be a great partner. It's kind of weird that he was flirting with you when you were 17 years old and then reached out to you. And more importantly, it's just fucked up that he knows you have a boyfriend and he has no problem taking you out on dates. And you don't see it because you're doing it too. But this is all messed up. And at the end of the day, I just don't want to be a part of it. I think you're better than these decisions you're making for yourself.

And I think you could just kind of echo that message. You say that over and over. And you say you're sorry, but I just can't support this behavior. And it breaks my heart. And I'm sorry. And I'm behavior. And it breaks my heart. And I'm sorry. And I'm sad. And I hope things change.

And I think it's just some version of that. I just don't want to completely close the door on her because she doesn't have like the small group of friends she does have. They are, I feel like kind of like enablers. They wouldn't tell her the truth. Like her friend that she hangs out with a lot has also cheated in another relationship, like with somebody that she claims she loved. And when she told her first and she was like, it's okay, you're not a bad person, like basically telling her it's fine. And I covered for her and I'm like, I can't be that friend. And I know she wants me to hang out with her and she likes to invite me over to her

apartment, but I don't want to be around her knowing what I know. Maybe she's more like them than she is like you. You've only known her for a year. Maybe you were able to fall in love with her charming sides. And I'm sure she has a great deal of good qualities. But maybe her value system is not aligned with yours. There are people who can cheat and make terrible choices and destructive choices for themselves. And at least they feel a sense of guilt. terrible choices and destructive choices for themselves. And at least they feel a sense of guilt. There are people out there who make these tough choices, who truly deep down wish they had

a friend like you. And they don't know why they're doing it. They almost have a self-awareness of like, I'm sabotaging my own happiness and my life. Again, I always like to use the food analogies, but it's like, I know sugar is bad for me. And sometimes I do. And I'm just like, oh, I wish I had the willpower or someone to stop me from doing it. Right. She's lucky to have you, but you're, you're already doing this. And she is rejecting your advice. And, and, and in such a way where it's so dismissive, it sounds like where she's like, it's not a big deal. Like, whatever this like lack of remorse, you know, she's not even like sitting down with you and be like, I know I feel terrible. I just eating me away inside about how I'm handling myself.

No, she's just so fucking cavalier. Maybe again, maybe she's more like them. And I'm sad that you might have to lose a friend. But again, don't close the door. Leave it open to say, listen, if you stop making these choices, I'm here for you. But this isn't okay. You know, and I can't keep being around you while you keep making these decisions because i i don't i don't think you lecturing her over and over while still

essentially being there to hang out with her when she wants is going to do the trick you've tried that yeah it's just she keeps wanting me to hang out with her new boyfriend because they're not like together and i'm like that's not no that's really not and she just thinks it's fine because other people have told her oh it's okay they don't see it as a red flag no but it's fucked it's manipulative what she's doing she is trying to make you an accomplice to her crime and if you hang out with her while she's hanging with her boyfriend then like you're kind of involved and she's in a weird way manipulating you into like accepting her behavior like she's not she doesn't this is not a dum-dum you know hey i need to get my car fixed so and then she has the foresight to say well i can't break up with him right afterwards

because i don't want her like no i'll wait a month she's calculating and manipulative which means that she can be calculated manipulative with you you. You don't trust her. You know she's a liar. And when you are trying to be the friend that she needs, she's dismissing you. She's making excuses. She's not even showing remorse. Yeah, that's true. I didn't think about that.

The fact that she never told me she felt bad. She asked me if I thought she was a bad person. I was like, well, I don't know if you're a bad person, but you're just making some dumb decisions right now. Well, I mean, that's a step. At least she asked that. Yeah. And her like, do you think I'm a bad person?

To me, that comes across as more like she doesn't want to be judged by you rather than then she actually feels guilt herself. And she's just making choices in the way you describe it, where she just in her and she's also surrounding herself with other people who agree with her that you know he cheated on me i cheated on him what's the big deal yeah she was like he deserves it yeah how how she treats people is she doesn't have a baseline of like you know we all make mistakes too we all have to apologize from time to time for you know but like she doesn't have like a set of like principles or

rules to say here's how i want to treat people regardless of how they treat me you know and yeah sometimes when people hurt us we react we want to hurt them back but this isn't even her being reactive this is her just being like you know now he can she can use him and lie to him and lead him on and yada yada meanwhile i don't know maybe he's trying to make changes i don't know but it's tearing you up inside and good for good good for you for being a friend you know yeah because a lot of there's a lot of people in your shoes who would just abandon her they'd be like oh well you're she's a horrible person i just i'm not i'm not gonna be friends with that you want to help her and you've tried and maybe it's worth having one or two more conversations but i i strongly feel that at some point you're going to have to set that boundary with yourself and draw that line in the sand and to say, if you continue to do this, I just can't keep hanging out with you.

I'm here if you need, but I can't hang out with this guy. And I honestly just need to keep my distance right now because I just don't approve with your choices and how you treat other people. Should I have this conversation with her in person or like text it to her? Ideally, no. I mean, text too many. I mean, at a minimum FaceTime, just because text can be lost in translation. Ideally face-to-face, but, you know, if it's not convenient, and by convenient I mean, like, maybe she's not available and you're having a hard time connecting, you know, just FaceTime her.

Or, you know, if not FaceTime her, call her on the phone, at a minimum, a phone call. But just say, I'm really concerned. And again, always lead with love. I love you. I'm so sad that you're going through this. Empathize with her struggle. But, like, it still doesn't make what you're doing okay. And you can say you're her other friend, this Jess girl or whatever,

just like, I'm sorry. I just, I don't agree with it. And I don't think you're a bad person, but I do think you're making bad choices. And the fact that you aren't recognizing that does, I mean, that is concerning. And sometimes doing doing the right often doing the right thing is hard you know but like our character matters our choices matter yeah like you said she negotiated a way to have her this guy pay her rent if they broke up there's other ways to fix her car she is she has no problem just using people as long as it's more convenient for her yeah i think that's just the way she thinks she can get by because she's like an only child and her mom died when she was like 19

and then she just has her dad and her dad's not, they're not close. Yeah, and it sucks. I mean, it sounds like there's a lot of reasons to make excuses or at least explain why she's making these choices. But at some point she's going to need people like you and she's going to have to lose quality people you know again and you're not a band you're just you're not saying i hate you i don't want to be your friend you're saying as long as you make these choices i can't be around and i i can help

you you know you want help like do you need to stay over but like i can't be your friend while you choose to lie and manipulate and use him and as far far as his other guys, I have some real concerns about, it's like you're dealing with two different issues with her with two different guys. The big thing is the lying and the deceit and the infidelity. Her bad picker of dating guys that aren't good for her, that's like a whole nother problem. But secondary to the fact that right now,

she is very comfortable with lying and cheating and using people to her benefit. I'm sorry her mom passed and I'm sorry her dad is a bit disconnected, but like that's still not an excuse. And there are a lot of people who deal with a lot of unfortunate family dynamics and they still make high character choices and they hold themselves accountable. And they, instead of doing what she's doing, say, I don't want to be that person, you know, and they work a little harder and they, you know, take the extra steps and they lean on their friends like that, like you,

who want to show them, you know, a healthier approach to how they should treat themselves and treat others. It's tough. You're in a tough spot and it's sad. And my heart breaks for you because obviously you care about her and you want the best for her but yeah there's only so much i can do yeah there really is and again i would when you do talk to her i would very much emphasize is that i'm always here for you if you need but i just can't support these decisions you're making i hope our friendship can really take off but i i just i can't be around while you're making these decisions and you're saying that because hopefully she's it'll wake her up most, I would expect her to go to Jess and they will talk shit about you and yada, yada, yada. She's going to have to hit rock bottom first. How old

is she? She's 25. Okay. Not that young, but yeah, she can come around. Clearly this Jess person isn't a good friend. Anyone who could say that to someone else is... Jess is saying this, like you said, I think she already cheated. She is approving of your friend's behavior so that she can feel better about herself. It's just as self-serving and just as shallow. They won't be friends forever. You being this kind of rock and trying to hold her accountable and drawing this line in the sand and still be willing to be be there for her if she's willing to put some real effort into being a better person, play the long game.

Because Jess ain't going to be there forever. I promise you that. But for the short term, I would prepare for them to talk shit about you. Yeah, I kind of expect that if I do meet up. I feel like, yeah, she'll be upset. I hate, I've never had a friendship breakup per se. And so I'm usually like a ride or die.

This is this is being you a ride or die. You know, these are extreme circumstances and you're this is what a ride or die would do, you know, because Jess isn't a ride or die. She's just an enabler. She's just someone who wants to, you know, get approval from her because of her own choices. who wants to get approval from her because of her own choices. You are being a ride or die by trying to hold her accountable and trying to guide her down the right path and letting her know that you will always be there for her,

but you just can't support her in these decisions right now and you can't be involved. Okay. Yeah, that's good advice. All right. Well, good luck. I'm sorry you're going through this.

Please, we definitely want an update on what you end up deciding to do and where that goes from here. I think this is a very relatable story. It's a very difficult situation you're in. You feel like there's no good choice. It really sucks, but you're doing the right thing. Your character matters. Our choices matter. your character matters, our choices matter. And, you know, if there is a chance for you to help your friend, you have to have this conversation and hopefully she comes around and hopefully she realizes what she's doing. And hopefully this can be something, you know, a year or two from now, you can look back and she can say, Hey, thank you for being willing to do what no one else around me was willing to do and hold me accountable. And you could say, Hey, I'm always here for you. I love you. And in, when you confront her, no matter what she says, you love her, you love her, you're there for her, you care about her, let her know how much you love her. These choices are just not acceptable.

Yeah. Part of me kind of hopes that Kai finds out because I want her to hit rock bottom so she can see how bad her decisions are and so she can learn from it. Yeah. bottom so she could see how bad her decisions are and so she can learn from it yeah but either way she still has she still has to acknowledge that these decisions are not okay okay well thank you i will definitely try to talk to her all right take care it's gonna be a hard conversation it will it will all right bye-bye you have such good character can i just say i'm so in awe of the way you're handling this situation i know it's really hard and good luck and i'm rooting for you thank you good luck bye bye thanks for listening we'll see you tomorrow with elizabeth wachmeister bye