The Viall Files - E627 Ask Nick - How to Save My Parent’s Marriage

Episode Date: August 21, 2023

Welcome back to another episode of The Viall Files: Ask Nick Edition! We’re back to answer your burning questions about the world of dating and relationships. Before getting to our callers, we discuss August Birthdays (spoiler alert–two members of the Household have birthdays coming up), and if it’s simply too hot to have sex in the summer. We also read a submission from someone who is trying to have a “Sex Goddess Summer.” She wants to know how to toe the line between having casual sex, and not being treated like an object. We then get to our callers.  Our first caller is engaged, but has changed her mind about having kids. Her fiance really wants children, but she’s worried she may not want them on his timeline, or at all. Our second caller is not ready to move in with her boyfriend. After only 6 months of dating, she’s worried moving in already would seem too soon to friends and family. Our final caller wants to save her parent’s marriage. Her father recently cheated on her mom, but refuses to talk about it, so our caller is wondering how to get through his emotional stonewalling and see if she can repair the damages to her family.  “Shame is a powerful tool.”  Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  Join us for our new LIVE show on Thursdays at 9PM ET/6PM PT on Amp, available in the Apple app store and https://www.onamp.com for Android listeners. To Order Nick’s Book Go To: https://www.viallfiles.com  If you would like to get some texting advice on Office Hours send an email to [e-mail] with “Texting Office Hours” in the subject line!  To advertise on the show, contact [e-mail] or visit https://www.advertisecast.com/TheViallFiles  THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Article - Get $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more by visiting http://www.Article.com/VIALL.  BetterHelp - Visit http://www.BetterHelp.com/VIALL today to get 10% off your first month.  Grammarly - Go to http://www.Grammarly.com/GO to download for FREE today.  Care/Of - For 50% off your first Care/of order, go to http://www.TakeCareof.com and enter code viall50.  Blueland - Right now, get 15% off your first order by going to http://www.Blueland.com/VIALL.  Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @alison.vandam @liffordthebigreddog @dereklanerussell @genevievegoodman

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Well the day this episode comes out I'll be back, but she is still touring Australia. Have we heard from her? She emailed me. I think maybe that's how we'll coordinate in our communication. But she'll be back on the 17th I think because this lovely woman coordinated her flights

to be back for my birthday. And if that's not the cutest thing that I've ever heard, I don't know what is. So cute. She remembered, and I found that lovely. Is your birthday on Saturday? Yeah. But I am throwing a banging bash, birthday bash.

It'll be awesome. It's going to be very fun. It's Parent Trap themed, because I'm turning 26, and Meredith Blake was 26 in the movie obviously um yes you have a Hallie and an Annie drink Meredith Blake is the mistress yes well uh Nick Parker's

girlfriend girlfriend new young thing yeah yeah but yeah we are gonna have signature drinks called the Hallie and the Annie a Camp Walden like giant sign I have a glitter sign that says meredith blake energy how old is nick parker in the movie i don't even know do we know but how do we know her age because uh lindsay lohan goes how old are you anyways and she goes

26. but we don't know how old nick how old is nick parker we're pulling it up 44 18 years not that bad I remember watching that movie when I was younger and being like ew how dare she now I watch it and I'm like

Dennis Quaid honestly the visual of Dennis Quaid when she gets off the plane from camp do you have the hots for Dennis come here squirt

who doesn't have the hots for Dennis say less okay and his son Jack Quaid he's a cutie too. I would totally marry Dennis Quaid.

He married someone not far from our age. Like early 20s. I think it was like a 30 year old. No, it's Meg Ryan. You have, yeah, but you're way behind. Where have you been? Yeah. Wait, they're not married anymore?

No, a friend of mine met someone who was friends with the wife and like they're all the same age. Like she was in college when we were. Yeah, he's married to like a 30 year old. No, young. I swear it's younger than that. Oh my God, where have I been? Yeah, I don't know

where you've been. Well, that's where Jack Quaid came from is from that marriage. The two, these two met in 2019 and he said he experienced love at first sight, Nick.

Well, that's a lie. Oh my God. He had the benefit of hindsight. Wait, she graduated college in 2015? No, I'm telling you she's around our age oh my god it could have been me and i missed out we missed the freaking boat on this one i am telling you who even is she oh this is tragic i mean not you

this is how i felt when i saw that uh ryan seacrest had a girlfriend who was 24 when i was 24 and i was like how do i keep missing the boat like it's not my age that's the inhibitor it's just fate why haven't i met any of them oh damn i gotta start networking better well going back to august birthdays i was surprised at this august is the month with the most amount of birthdays. The most popular birthday month. Is it because everyone's fucking in the cold January? In December. One of my friends sent me a TikTok being like,

because everyone was having sex on Thanksgiving and Christmas. Well, it's cold inside. You have nowhere to go. I guess. You're an August birthday. Is that why? Natalie's an August birthday. Natalie's an August birthday.

Are you guys the same age? No. Because you're younger. You're apart. It doesn't feel that way birthday. Natalie's an August birthday. Are you guys the same age? No. Because you're younger. You're apart. Yeah. Doesn't feel that way though. Feels like we're. Really?

What? Makes one of us. Nick, do you have any fond birthday memories? That was mean. What is a joke? For anyone who doesn't know. This is what we do. We're actually very, very close.

You should see us drive together because it's wild. You should see us drive together. I's uh you should see us drive together i think we've been in a car together and it was memorable it was what did we do you just make me laugh in a way that a lot of people don't not everyone's as funny as jennifer ali ali that was so that was a joke so august birthday like we're commenting that I'm a bitch. I'm not. I promise. Do you have any fond birthday memories? Tell us your favorite birthday memories. Last year was pretty good. Natalie threw me a surprise birthday party.

She did. That's so fun. I'm not a big birthday guy. I want to skip my birthday this year. No. I don't want to do it. It's hard. You just moved to a new city.

That's nice of you. Yeah, of course. We're going to get some dinner. After a hard. You just moved to a new city. But we're getting dinner. That's nice of you. Yeah, of course. We're going to get some dinner. After a better date than never. Well, happy birthday. Thanks! Speaking of summer. I love a summer birthday. And I love summer. It's a great transition. It's coming to a close. We have a caller.

Dude, one. One. How is summer coming to a close? Two. Should I have done more this summer? Three. Should I have had sex this summer? It's too hot to have sex. That's why all the August babies were conceived in December. It's too warm? It's too warm. Don't touch me.

It's hot. You get a pass for the summer. Do I? Because I didn't use it. A pass to not have it or a pass to have a lot of it? No. Isn't summer usually when people are like... Summer's for like summer fling.

Yeah. So before we get to our callers, we have a very timely, topical email submission from someone who was trying to have a sex goddess summer, which is something we... Summer's almost over. This is why I needed to get it in. Late in the game.

All right, anyways. Sex goddess summer. Before summer ends. All right in the game before summer ends gotta help her out so she goes my name is Mandy she's 26 I know you have reservations about hookup culture but I've been a listener for a while and I wanted your advice on an issue

I've been having simply put how forward is too forward when pursuing a more casual relationship with a guy I've been having what I call a sex goddess summer which has been incredibly fun I call a sex goddess summer, which has been incredibly fun. I'm bi and no stranger to the difference between pursuing folks of different genders. However, I'm tired of waiting for men

to make the first move and want to be more authentic to who I am, a decisive woman who knows what she wants. However, a pattern has emerged that I don't know how to break. When I'm flirty but not overt about my interests sexually, I'll end up on a nice date with a guy who either doesn't invite me for a nightcap or who doesn't pick up on my hints about grabbing dessert somewhere, etc.

When I'm more honest about wanting a good time, I'll often get treated like a piece of ass and not respected as an intelligent, successful woman who happens to enjoy sex. What does she mean by not respected? I think she wants the dates with the sex. If she just brings up the sex, there's not much like respect, date, formality. However, so she says

the majority of the time when she's trying to pursue this, the guy will become less respectful of my time or talk a big game but doesn't follow through. How do I ride the line so guys don't treat me as expendableable but i also get laid and have a good time while i'm at it you don't nick what unless she finds like one consistent if i'm if i'm under if i'm understanding her correctly this is how i'm hearing it i want to participate in hookup culture i want to have sex and she's having a good time that's great great. And she is saying, if I'm hearing her right, that when she is not forward about her

intentions about possibly hooking up on a first or second date, it tends to not happen, which my guess is that means that maybe guys, whether they wanted to have sex or not, are playing it more slowly, maybe trying not to be more forward or actually trying to get to know her and yada yada. And then she's saying, well, on the flip side, when I do say, hey, listen,

you want to just come up and have some sex? That guy's flip a switch. What I'm hearing is they flip a switch and just assume like, I guess she just wants to fuck. And then it turns into a hookup culture situation.

She wants her cake and eat it too is what I'm hearing. Yeah, it feels like the type of situation where it's going to be really hard to find someone who somehow is going to be able to do both or maybe not really hard but it's not just going to be people's instincts i feel like you're gonna those are those are the two kind of camps that i feel like you find people in so to find someone who's in the middle of that then diagram is going to take more time so she's probably going to have to go on dates experiencing one or the other. She's not even saying she's looking for a boyfriend. Correct.

She wants to find a guy who wants to hook up but pretends to want to do the romance part for the sake of pretending? Maybe she just wants a friends with benefit. No, to be clear, when she says if she disrespected if a guy starts being rude and talking down to her that's never okay no and i don't think it's if she means that it becomes more transactional and he doesn't really try anymore and he doesn't put an effort to follow up well you turned it into a hookup. I just, I'm sorry. And I know she knows I'm going to say this because she referenced my thoughts on hookup culture. It's hookup culture. So if you're going to participate in it, you have

to accept it for what it is. And if you're going to hook up with someone and have sex with someone without knowing who they are or anything about them, it is more transactional. And you can have expectations of them, but chances are they're not going to live up to them. And you will continue to be surprised, or more accurately, you will continue to be disappointed in these guys who don't continue to wind and dine you

after you have sex with them. Because unless they have sex with you and have their minds blown she does and that's the thing she doesn't even want to date them i don't you know so it's like what exactly does she want i can't tell if she just wants like consistent sex or if she wants like the date with sex but no yeah i think she's gonna have to be very particular with what that means because in my mind i'm like oh maybe she wants to just be able to consistently go to one guy's house and like he'll make her a drink or dinner and then they bang and then that's what she wants but maybe it's more than that maybe she wants to go on a date what i think it is is

that subconsciously or consciously she is letting societal pressures cause her to judge herself for wanting sex goddess summer. And so I'm here to say, if you want to have sex goddess summer and have a bunch of sex, continue to pop off, queen. Enjoy yourself. But it is what it is, you know? And a guy treating it transactional, don't judge yourself for that. You want it to be transactional. You want it to just have sex. So stop pretending that you need to have some sort of rapport with this guy or they need

to, they should respect you. They should treat you like a human being. They should respect your boundaries. But if your boundaries include fucking and you put it out there, I would limit your expectations over the whining and dining and the romance and the playing house of it all, or whatever it is that she's expecting that makes her feel less used. Because my guess is, even though she's down to have sex, got a summer, the way these men

are acting are making her feel less than or worthless. Like they just being like, all right, if you want to fuck, let's just fuck, you know, are making her feel less than. And either she needs to stop judging herself because, you know, she shouldn't, she's entitled to have as much sex as she wants, or maybe come to the realization that as fun as sex is to have with random people, and it can be fun, not all of us are made for it. That it impacts us emotionally in ways that we might not want to. It affects us. Sex is a powerful thing. It affects all of us in different ways. And yeah, would it be fun to just

be single and just have a bunch of meaningless sex without any consequences? Sure. But that's not how it works. I think she's going to have a honest conversation with herself. Is this really what she wants? Sounds like she is having fun, but maybe if she is having fun and she wants to continue to have fun doing that, she has to stop letting how these men are acting, make her feel less than about herself for her choices.

I had a friend who was really good at this and I don't even think it was that she like communicated a lot with these guys like this is what I want this is what I don't want she would just like the daytime or if we do it doesn't mean that it's a date you know she would just like she didn't do that no she didn't do that yeah she didn't ask for boundaries she just asked for what she wanted and more often than not these guys were like yeah you you can come over we can have sex sure yeah i'll get dinner with you i'm not doing doing anything tonight. Totally. You know? She like relied on the spontaneity to make it casual. But how is that different than what our writer is asking for? Because it sounds like she might be being

too specific with what she wants, which then maybe gets them in their head. Yeah, of like outwardly saying. Like I want this to be casual. So then they're like, oh, okay, I don't want her to think I like her. I don't want her to think that I'm being too forward and I want a relationship.

So I'm just, I'm going to be super casual. As opposed to what? As opposed to her. But aren't all these guys casual that your friend's hooking up with? But I think it makes it almost more casual and she gets what she wants because she doesn't feel the need to label it as casual.

Like Genevieve said, she's not like going into it being like, so I want to go to dinner with you but just so you know it's not a date and I want to come over and have sex with you but I still want us to be able to go on dates like it feels like there's just but do we even know our caller's saying doing that no but I mean it sounds like if if there's a switch that happens it's because she's communicating something where would that switch be coming from like I just want to be casual i read it as as soon as she's like hey let's go up to your room and then they hook up that

these men's behavior starts to change and she feels disrespected and my guess is it feels transactional where they went from this guy asking questions getting to know her, paying an interest, yada, yada. And it's just like, oh, what the fuck? Okay. Bye. You know, right after sex, it becomes more transactional. It's just a hookup there. The effort drops off the cliff. And I guess my response is before you've communicated your expectations, which is sounds like just a hookup, you know, you enjoy the playing house of it all, the pretend date. And the only reason she would enjoy the pretend date, knowing that she herself only wants to have sex, is that pretend date makes her feel better about her choices, which is to just have sex. Because I'm confused based off her letter, what are the guys doing wrong? And that's why I asked, what does she mean

by disrespected? Because again, if the guy is in any way talking rude, talking down, condescending, just being generally disrespectful as anyone can be, that's not okay. But if she means their behavior change and I feel disrespected, my guess is it's because she feels it's more, again, transactional, objectified, things like that. It sounds like to me, she's judging herself. And the way the change in their behavior, it makes, I guess, to me, it's like, in her mind, she's like, all right, I want to have this like sex summer. And she goes on these dates and these guys are acting like daters would, these potential suitors, which makes her feel like, okay, this is okay. This is acceptable. But as soon as a guy acts like this is transactional, it makes her feel a little dirty.

As if like, well, like if a guy like offered her money to have sex, you know, like, I don't know how she'd feel about it, but maybe she'd be offended by it. But like, she just wants to have sex, right? Per her email. But that's my point. Like we can say we want one thing and that might be half true, but sometimes we ignore the cost of the thing we say we want. And then when the cost shows up, sometimes we can get buyer's remorse. And the cost of her going out and having this casual sex is this change in behavior for men when they realize, oh, this isn't a date. This is just a request to hook up. And men and women, when it comes to casual sex, operate very differently. Men are very easily detached from any emotions when it comes to sex. Women, less easily. And so I guess I'm just saying,

just be more honest with yourself, with your intentions. She's having fun. She said that. She's been hooking up. She is having fun. So to me, if she were calling, my advice would be, it sounds like you're just judging yourself a little bit more than you should. Stop judging yourself. These men's behavior that are changing, kind of honestly, it sounds like I would expect that normal. Don't put up with them being rude or treating you poorly and being inconsiderate with your time. But if they just stop getting to know you, well, that's kind of what I would expect. But that's just making you feel a little less than. Yeah. And the societal judgment I think that women often have to face, the shame of like, what does it make me feel when I feel objectified? Men don't care if they feel objectified at all because society doesn't make them feel less about themselves when they are objectified.

Society makes women feel that way. And so that's the struggle. I think it can to be participate in hookup culture. So that's my guess without having talked to her is don't let society judge you for something that you want to do. It's not the men necessarily doing anything wrong. They're according to what I'm understanding about the letter they are acting how most people should act in a strictly hookup situation i want an update about sex goddess summer yeah well yeah no after labor day like how did it go i am curious what she has to what she if we're right about this i'm curious about what she has to say when she hears this. I'll ask her. Because I'm curious what she actually means by disrespected and maybe we're getting that wrong or she left something

out or maybe she has an aha moment and we nailed it. I don't know. Listen, sex, like I said, there's a reason why it's complicated and messy and it has a cost and hookup culture is not meant for everyone. I don't think it's meant for most of us. Just because you have a good outlook on sex doesn't mean every sexual experience is going to be positive. A good one. Yeah, that's true. Very true. There was a TikTok that I made, I think, did I make it? Did you make it? It was of you talking about like the power of sex and in this age of sex positivity and it just being like so open and be like, oh, supported. People negate that it has power.

That it has no as long as you're positive about sex there will be no consequences to sex that's delusion make it a tiktok yeah

it is one it's several I cut that baby up I think I made that one that's why I asked oh while you guys argue about that just a couple

housekeeping notes we have a great week lined up for you well tonight is the finale of Charity's love journey and we will be breaking it all down tomorrow. I guess we'll just be talking

about her and Dotton because I don't know what the mystery is going to be. I want nothing more than for her to pick Joey just so you lose another 50K. Are you mistaking me

as someone who cares if they're wrong predicting the outcome of The Bachelorette? No, you just got 50K on the line. Yeah, I know. Patricia's 50K. Are you mistaking me as someone who cares if they're wrong, predicting the outcome of The Bachelorette? No, you just got 50K on the line. Yeah, I know. Patricia's 50K. I would love to be wrong.

It would be something to talk about. But, you know, we're going to have a great episode tomorrow. We'll talk, obviously, about the finale. We'll get into other pop culture topics and more. This week on Going Deeper, we have Tamara Judge from Real House of Orange County and Telly Malekamp, who also used to be in Orange County.

Did she not? Or she used to be a housewife. I don't know what housewife she was. It doesn't matter. Tamara comes to the Vile Files. Teddy joins her. It'll be a lot of fun. I feel like it's just going to be messy

in the best possible way. Messy or fun? Either way. It'll be great. A bunch of gals gabbing. It'll be gabbing. We'll obviously talk about some housewives. We'll talk about some pop culture.

We'll talk about being messy. Relationships, dating. who knows who knows tamra seems to like to talk shit and we like that and we're gonna talk shit with her and we're gonna talk shit with her so away we go let's get to our callers let's ask Nick your sexy questions. How's it going? Good. How are you? Good. What's your name? My name is Sydney. I'm 28 years old. And I am getting married in two months. And my fiance really wants to have kids.

And I think I may have changed my mind and do not want them any longer. Okay. Well, that's kind of a big deal. It's what we call a non-negotiable in our world. Do you know you don't want to have kids? Or how aware is he of this change of heart in your mind? He is very aware. So I've been super open about it. We talk about it a lot.

So we got that going for us. And it's not that I don't want them at all. It's just more I've always been very like eager. Like we would joke about like, yeah, honeymoon baby. And then like in the last year or so, I feel like reality hit and I'm just freaking out. So it's not even that it's like an absolutely no, but like, I even feel bad that I'm just even questioning when it was something we were so excited for before. Well, I mean, don't feel bad. It's your life and you have the right to change your mind. It's also your body. And that's a huge ask of anyone. I wouldn't know, but I've heard it's a big ask.

Heard it's a lot. Yeah. Yeah. So are you just freaking out? Is that it? I mean, is this more about, do you think it's your subconscious acting out because one, you're getting married in two months, there's that. Any chance you're getting married in two months there's there's that um any chance you're looking for a way out no like i feel super confident about marrying him like that's what frustrates me more because i feel like i have like a bad toxic past and i feel like i finally

found like the good one so i'm super excited to be with him so I am an overthinker and a spiraler so once I get like the fear in my mind I can just kind of stay there so I think that could definitely be part of it is just the spiraling and overthinking and then you mentioned like so you guys joked about like having a honeymoon baby so because to me that sounds like maybe you're just reacting to the fear of what is presumed to be an expectation in your relationship. And what I mean by that is if you and your fiance joked about having a honeymoon baby, well, that means you've joked about having a baby incredibly early into your marriage. And now you may not know what you want in terms of motherhood at this point, but it sounds like you are pretty confident and that you're not ready to get pregnant anytime soon.

And is it more about that? Possibly. Like I did because when I finally was really open with him about it and he was great about it and said like, okay, well, we don't need to do it right away then. And like, even just that took a lot of the pressure off. But then I feel like I've been just kind of banking on the fact like, okay, later I'll feel better. But like, if I don't, that's when I started re-spiraling. Because I'm like, I feel like we're both just like,

yeah, she'll feel better later and then it'll happen. But like, I don't want to do it just to do it because it's a big deal so yeah now it's more just the fear of the future and how i'll feel then well you can't predict the future and you don't know there's just one reality you need to accept because this is what i can say with a lot of confidence that if you get married uh to this man and his feelings about kids don't change and your feelings about not having kids solidifies that you'll break up right it will be and i agree it will be non-negotiable it'll be an end of it'll be the end of your relationship yes and that is a terrifying thought so i did i talked to him about that recently,

like last week. And he was saying like, well, that would never be like a non-negotiable, it would never be a deal breaker for me if that were the case. He said that. Yeah. He did say that. Okay. Well, maybe, you know. Again, it like helped me breathe for a second, but at the same time i'm like but i also don't want to like take that from you so then it didn't make me feel better much longer he is very like positive all the time like very easygoing thinks everything's gonna work out and be great like that's just how he lives his life and i'm more like doom and gloom half glass empty like so we kind of balance

each other a little bit but for this i'm like i feel like he's just like it's gonna be great and i'm like well what if it's not is where we're at i mean i'm not a therapist obviously you know but yeah our subconscious brain is is very powerful and and reacts. I think your subconscious brain can be reacting, uh, to situations. I don't think that this doesn't mean you're looking for a way out, but it could be your body having anxiety about the expectation of marriage and what it all means and what it means for you.

And just generally it limiting your options, you know, it all means and what it means for you and just generally it limiting your options you know it's very finite that's the idea of marriage at least you know and are you trying to pull coals in an otherwise great situation because you just have a history of looking for the drama that is is my past, is drama. Well, that's good to recognize. I mean, I said this, I don't know. Yeah, that is where I come from. Yeah, I think the better my life has gotten

for a lot of reasons, but my relationships have become healthier, reflecting back, realizing that I sought out less you know there's a lot of reasons why my relationships didn't work out but if i was looking at the role i played we all love drama all of us so much it's it's entertaining it's something to do it keeps us in the loop you know and when we think of ourselves as the main character in our story you know regardless of what happens to us we want to justify our actions we want to have people sympathize with our plights you know and that

creates a lot of drama you know and maybe you're just used to that and maybe that's your default and you have otherwise seemingly healthy relationship and there's nothing really to poke holes in and you know that makes almost that maybe that makes you feel uncomfortable yeah i don't know i was very for you like up until this relationship it was just always toxicity always i'm very comfortable and happy with where i'm at with this one because i feel like i have grown a lot in the last few years whereas a few years ago i wouldn't have been ready for him because he's just not what I was doing before. So I feel very content with him. And it's almost like I didn't like my life at all before, like.

For most of my life, didn't really enjoy it. And then the last few years, I feel like I really love my life and I love my life with him. So I feel like it's almost the fear of like, I don't want anything to change what we have right now kind of thing. So it's almost more of like the opposite. Like I am so content and I just don't want to mess it up. Your life's going to change regardless of whether you want to or not. The question is, will you guys change together? And you have to be flexible and fluid in your life and in your relationships. So you can't control, not to burst your bubble,

you're and your fiance's and future husband's life changing. Your life is going to change. I don't know how it's going to change. I don't know if kids will be involved. I don't know if job factors will be a consideration. But life is going to happen. You know, you're just going to experience ups and downs. And as we get older, you know, like life gets more real, you know, like shit's just going to happen. Your life is going to change.

So just accept that reality. And then kids, yeah, I mean, you'll have to decide for yourself. The good news is, is you've communicated with your fiance, your reservations. It sounds like you have a guy who's, who seems to do a good job of balancing you out, who, who maybe kind of recognizes your tendency of, of thinking of worst case and ruminating and kind of thinking about the potential drama in any one situation. And it sounds like you found someone who's pretty good at not giving into the drama, which seems in your case, something you appreciate. That's the good news. I mean, to me, it comes across as maybe just kind of two month writing reluctance and things like that. And you trying to poke holes in things and not that you're looking for a way out, but this is a way of almost testing him in a way to make sure that he accepts you for who you are. Because that's

the thing about marriage. Hey, it's one thing to be like, hey, do you want to be my boyfriend? Do you want to be my girlfriend? Hey, it's like, let's get engaged. Great. But like, let's get married. Now, like shit's getting real. You know, it's one thing to get in a relationship and pretend that they love you for who you are, or even to get engaged to pretend that they love you for who you are. Once you get married, you better make sure they love you for who you are. And we all know that, but maybe this is your subconscious kind of projecting a fear of, does my fiance really love me for who I am? Does he really know who I am? And if he if he learns if i who i really am will he still love me and i feel like i wonder and i don't know because but i wonder if maybe this is that part of

your body that is just wondering if he really accepts you for who you are and that fear of finality when it comes to a wedding and making sure that he does because hey we you know now is the time to let me know that, hey, what if I don't want to have kids? Will you break up with me then? And here he is saying, hey, that won't be a non-negotiable for me. That's a tough question for him to answer. But my guess is it'll work itself out.

It sounds like you're still open to it. I am. I think it would be i think it'd be a lot different if i was like absolutely not and he was absolutely yes like that you can't really there's nowhere to meet there's a big difference between saying yeah i never want to have kids versus whoa i'm just getting married i know we talked slash joked about having kids per early but like oh life comes at you fast. And I'm still really young and I don't know if I'm ready to have kids yet. Like, is that okay for me to say?

Which is totally okay for you to say. And I feel that's more your truth rather than I don't want to have kids anymore. Yeah, I would agree. agree especially i live in the midwest and at 28 i'm like more of a rarity for not being married and having kids yet which is crazy but true and so it just feels like there's like added pressure just from like environment and family and all of that so there's just a lot I haven't done that I want to do. And then I've like kicked myself around doing it yet, but I'm like, I still can.

So have you had those conversations with your fiance? Yeah. And he knows like, like I haven't even been out of the country yet. So we're doing that for our honeymoon and I want to do more traveling and experiences like that. Not that like your life ends when you have kids, but it changes.

The only advice I have for you is when you get off the phone with me, next time you see your husband, give him a big hug and a kiss and just say, hey, I just want to say thank you for being so supportive and allowing me to express like any fears and insecurities I have. I know like, you know, when it comes to the kids, I think I've psyched myself out, but like,

thank you for being someone who makes me feel like I can share my hopes and dreams with and helps me want to live those. Obviously I'm so excited about our life together. And you know, there's a lot of things I want to, I think more than anything, there's just, I just know there's a lot of things i want to i think more than anything there's just i just know there's a lot of things i want to do with us before we start a family and i'm really excited to do that so can we commit to each other within the first year especially or first years of our marriage to try to check some things off our bucket lists ask him about things he wants to check off so it's not just about your list what are things you guys want to do together and just show him that appreciation for what he already has done and then kind of reinforce what you hope to have

in the future rather than stress yourself psych yourself out about like things you're not sure if you're not going to want because this is more about you making sure that you can live a fulfilling life and that marriage isn't the handcuffs you fear it might be, but rather, you know, solidifying a relationship with someone who wants to support you in all aspects of your life. I agree. And what you were saying before about it, like maybe a subconscious thing about making sure he like fully loves me or loves me enough or whatever. I think that was kind of getting it. That gave me something to think about about too, because that has been a struggle of mine. I think I went for more toxic before because that's kind of how I saw myself and thought that's what I deserved.

And so for him, I think I still, even I probably wouldn't have admitted that before this call, but I feel like I still kind of question if I'm like deserving of someone as good as him. So I think that could be me kind of, you're onto something there potentially.

And that's okay to acknowledge, you know, but you certainly do. And he loves you for who, you know, he wouldn't be getting engaged to you unless he thought that he sees obviously the good in you. And like,

I get, it's always nice to show appreciation to your partner. If, if you do feel like you are, you know, there, there's a lot of good in you and like i get it's always nice to show appreciation to your partner if if you do feel like you are you know there's a lot of good in him just make him feel appreciative of that hey thanks for being this type of person i just want to again thank you for being different than every other guy i've ever been with thank you for making me feel this way and not that way you know and things like that and i'm so excited about things and and that way, you know, and things like that. And I'm so excited about things. And more importantly, thank you for letting me come to you with like any insecurities and fears that I have and allowing me to talk with you about them, you know, and then yeah, set new expectations

instead of joking about having kids on your honeymoon, just say, Hey, like, can we focus on, you know, three or four goals that we have in the next year, you know, and then we'll see where it goes. But instead of worrying about your fears and the drama of a worst case, think about potential solutions with your partner. You know, that's what he's there for. Makes a lot of sense. I also, I don't know if you've heard of foreboding joy, but it's a term used to describe that

feeling of like the other shoe has to drop. Like it can't be that possibly be this good. Like something must be wrong. Like I am the second I let myself be happy, I'm going to be crushed by disappointment. And like just hearing that term and being like, oh my God, like this is putting into words this thing that like is like sometimes like looming in my brain was really, really helpful. And something like, you know, Brene Brown says is like the biggest thing you can do to remedy that is like gratitude, because it is so natural to be like, well, I feel like I'm flying so high right now that like falling would be so painful. And like,

it's like a fact of life. That's like the happier you let yourself be, the more you can feel blindsided. And that's like really scary. But in order to not rob yourself of that joy, like trying to just be like, I'm like, sometimes I'll just be like three things I'm grateful for. Like when I feel myself getting really anxious and as much as it seems like very like simple and stupid, I found it really, really helpful when I am getting a little like caught up in this thought spiral of it all.

Yeah, no, I think that would be super helpful for me. Yeah. I think that's great advice, you know, list of all, all the things that you're grateful for in this relationship going forward. And it's, it takes humility to question, you know, whether

you're worthy of something. So you have that humility, but he proposed to you for a reason, you know, and we do that. We, we, we test our partners all the time and, you know, like I feel ugly today, you know, cause you're kind of, we all fish ugly today you know because you're kind of we all fish sometimes you know yeah uh it's human nature but what do i know but i'm i'm less worried about this not wanting to have kids i'm just getting a sense that it's more of a maybe you're just not ready yet and that's normal and that's totally understandable and valid and you know societal pressures you know i get the midwest but all that, like, now's a good time to remind yourself what really matters. As long as you two are on the same page,

it doesn't really matter about mom or dad or the in-laws or friends. It really just comes down to you guys being connected on the same page. Yeah. And I would just focus on that, you know, and everything else is just drama, you know know and drama can have the appearance of fun and something to do but there's also no better feeling than when when someone's like receiving your love like it feels so amazing when i like know that my partner is like appreciating and receiving that and so like another way to kind of like frame it in your brain is like it would be like he would be thrilled and over the moon if you could talk yourself off the ledge sometimes and be like he loves me so much and i'm not gonna like let these little like

anxieties uh take away from the way that he like shows up for me as a partner and i'm doing this for him and for our relationship i'm believing in it and i'm like trusting in it yeah yeah he deserves that he's literally never given me any reason to doubt it's just what i'm good at yeah the body keeps the score yeah that's your your body kind of memory you know has a memory of the whatever pain you experienced and it's it's a way of protecting yourself you know it's either fight or flight right now you're you're leaning towards the flight when it comes to your anxiety you're probably uh that's creeping up on, uh,

on your relationship, but it's normal. So that should make you feel better. You're not the only one who does shit like this. Just the trick is not to give in. And, you know, I think you're in good shape.

It will be okay. All right. Well, uh, I don't know if there's anything to keep us posted on. I mean, obviously when you guys, if you guys have kids or not have kids,

let us know. Um, yeah, maybe, maybe check in with us after your marriage. keep us posted on. I mean, obviously when you guys, if you guys have kids or not have kids, let us know. Yeah. Maybe, maybe check in with us after your marriage. I would love that. Check it, you know,

after the wedding day, two months from now, and just give us an update, assuming you go through with it, but I'm assuming you will. I feel good about that. Great. Give him a big hug today and just thank him for being who he is and how appreciative you are but he's with you for a reason you know it makes a lot of sense yeah well good luck congratulations

thank you you too all right take care thank you thank you guys thanks to better help for sponsoring this show this show was brought to you by BetterHelp. Therapy, mental health, super important. Obviously on this show, we want you to prioritize your mental health. And for those of you who are, congratulations. For those of you who have thought about doing it and they're just kind of worried about, ah, who do I go to? I don't know if I should do it. BetterHelp is there to make that kind of launching pad of getting into taking care of your mental health super easy. They're working with so many therapists that the chances of you finding a therapist that you like, that you feel comfortable, are incredibly high. And it's

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I'm a dumb dumb because I don't know how to proofread an email or I don't know the difference between they or they are or whatever. Grammarly handles that all. They have great tone recognition to make sure that the tone in which you want to send your emails are the tone in which people are receiving it. Your grammar, your spelling, they're making it so much easier to make sure that you are efficiently getting your message across with the people you needed to get it across to. Also with Grammarly Go. So Grammarly has been powered by AI technology that you can trust and rely on for over 10 years. And now with Grammarly Go, it helps you do even more. So with one click, you can easily brainstorm, rewrite, and reply quickly with suggestions based on your context and goals. So that's really helpful for

us here because, for example, we can say, give me 10 possible taglines for a video thumbnail. Improve this. Shorten it if we want to evaluate our writing. If you need to get through your emails quicker, Grammarly can help summarize your emails and provide suggestions on how to reply in seconds. Boom. It is a personal assistant in your pocket. You'll be amazed at what you can do with Grammarly. Go to Grammarly.com slash go to download for free today. That's G-R-A-M-M-A-R-L-Y.com slash go. That's Grammarly.com slash go. How's it going? Hey, it's going good. My name is Andy and I am 28 years old. That's Grammarly.com slash go. about six months. So it's all like really fresh and really new and moving in seems like a big step right now. Yeah. Well, trust your gut. Why are you moving in together? Yeah. So there's kind of like external circumstances for both of us that have just like pushed us to this decision. So for me, I have kind of been nomadic for the last few years, kind of all over the place.

And I haven't really had a good living situation in a really long time, especially now I have some crazy roommates. I live in a basement and it's just not great. And then for my boyfriend who is 30, this is not his first serious relationship. He's actually had somebody, a girlfriend live in with him before. But for him, his current roommate is moving out and he wants to make sure that he's not going to take the loss on the finances because he actually owns the house. Yeah. Okay. Thank you for that honest answer.

I wrote a book. Shameless plug. But chapter eight is moving in together. Oh. And it starts by saying there are only two good reasons to move in together. Number one, you're married, engaged to be married, or have made some other long-term commitment to one another. You would not fall into that category. I would counter a little bit there.

I would say that the long-term commitment is something that we're both very interested in. I've never been in a relationship like this before. I've never had these serious of feelings. So I'm hoping that we have a long-term commitment, but six months just feels a little quick. Love that you're hoping for it. But I guess this doesn't say hoping for a long-term committed relationship. This would be more under the people who don't necessarily believe in marriage, but are just decided to be life partners and they're just like they are just we are each other's person you know right and who knows maybe i'm fucking wrong but in this book well nobody knows yeah we're only six months in but um i feel strongly about these rules these are my rules but i wouldn't put you in number one

number two you're in a committed relationship okay. Number two, you're in a committed relationship. Okay, you've qualified there. You're in a committed relationship. And you both mutually decided that you want to move in together because you want to spend as much time as possible with one another. That's it. Emphasis on mutual.

And then I go on to explain a bunch of reasons why not to, these are not good reasons to move in with your partner. I go into some detail. I'm not gonna, I'm gonna good reasons to move in with your partner. I go into some detail. I'm not going to, I'm going to spare you the, you know, the details, but number one, you think it's a test to see what it would be like to be married to that person. Not a good reason. Number two, you like them better than your roommate and you can't afford to live on your own. Number three, you want to settle down, but your partner hasn't asked you to get married yet.

So you think that moving in is a good compromise. That's not you. Four, you feel like you two are growing apart and moving in will force you to face your issues. Number five, you're bored. Number six, you hate deciding or even fighting over whose house you spend more time in. So anyway, you have a couple of these, but this is all to say it doesn't sound like you qualify for any of those two. You have reluctance and that's important. I guess is what I'm saying. It's really important that you listen to your gut because when you were explaining why you two are moving in, there was a lot of like ancillary reasons. Oh, you know, he owns his house, roommate situation.

There's a lot of logistics. Right? Right. And it could seem like your relationship is here to stay the day. It's just like, oh, well, I have a girlfriend who I like spending time with. And I have a boyfriend who I like spending time with. And his situation with his roommate isn't ideal. Well, I can fit in and help there.

But that's not about your relationship. Out of convenience, almost. Yeah, I get that. It's not about your relationship, but it's convenient. Yes. It's not for the relationship, you know? Right. But I mean, it would be definitely for the relationship. Like,

I think there would be a lot of bonuses to it. We're both very excited. I think the big concern is just about optics. Like we're worried what our friends are going to think if we're moving in this quickly. Our parents are super supportive, but it's kind of like, Oh,

is it too soon? Cause it's only six months. And I try to remember like everybody's on their own path, but I'm worried about the optics of it. Well, yeah. If I wrote a chapter on things you shouldn't worry about would be optics, as long as you don't give optics credit. If you always worry about what people think, then I guess you need to consider that. But ultimately, you're not doing yourself any good. I mean, six months isn't a crazy short amount of time. You're not like people have moved in faster. It feels fast for you. Obviously it's your first serious relationship. It feels

fast for me. Then that's important for you to trust your gut. Right. And as much as you guys are both excited, I'm hearing that you, you might not have chosen this if other things were in consideration, like maybe his roommate situation was a different situation. I would have loved to hear that the reason we're moving in together is because we just fucking want to. And there's a lot of reasons why we should, and we're going to have to ask his roommate to move out. And that's going to be kind of an uncomfortable conversation. But at the end of the day, we just want to live together. We love each other. We love spending time together. It's what we love. And I just want to be around him. And I want to hear the same from him. Like that should be the reason. serious relationship like this before i've never lived with a partner so i just really don't know in general what to expect expect and like also because it's it's his house that he owns so it's like he's now my landlord like that's just a lot yeah so there's a lot of things you you know could

put in should do you know i see chapter eight pay attention there's other things i mean you could do i mean there's a whole chapter in my book i don't want to try to sell my book here. Things you should do before moving in together. Acknowledge the coming change. Empathize with your partner. Acknowledge the coming change means like sitting down and talking about how is moving in together going to change? This is our dynamic because it will change.

Yeah. You will constantly be around each other. Consider your future alone time would be another one, right? Right. This is one thing I wanted your take on. Okay. My one big thing that I wanted upon moving in that I was not going to budge on was I need my own room.

I need my own space in his house. I need my own room somewhere I can go. And he's kind of like, why? Why do you need that? It's not like I'm not going to sleep with you in your bed every night, but I need some me space. Yeah. Fair ask.

His why do you need that listen like i think he's making probably the mistake of of thinking well we're in love and and there's nothing bad about moving in together he's like oversimplifying the move to your point it's just like i don't know because i i feel like i do because i have a lot of clothes that i need to put in a closet or will this always be around each other you know like the amount of time you spend with each other is going to drastically change even if you already feel like you constantly spend all your time together it's going to ramp up a ton more you know because like they are also your roommate and then

discussing you know finances a big step discussing, you know, finances, a big step, power dynamic, you know, like what's his earning? What does he make the same as you? Does he make a lot more than you? Is this the, is this the type of place that you would move into if you weren't dating him? You know, for example, if, if you're paying, let's say a thousand dollars a month for rent and half of his rent is $3,000 a month. Maybe it is fair for you to split

it, but maybe he's making four times as much as you and you wouldn't otherwise live there if he didn't want you to move in with him. Like these are all, there's no right or wrong answer, but they are worthy of a conversation. And the important thing is you guys are just on the same page. And if it gets contentious early on, maybe that's a sign of like, hey, maybe we're just not ready to move in because clearly we're not on the same page with some of these conversations. And it doesn't mean we're not in love and it doesn't mean we won't get there,

but maybe it just means that right now, six months in, we still have more learning to get to know about each other. Six months isn't a great deal of time and you just have more to learn. I hope you guys have more to learn i hope you guys have more to learn about each other i hope that you you can't learn everything there is to learn about

each other in six months in six months right and that's why i'm like this is really quick um especially because i've never had a relationship like this before i would just continue to trust your yeah and calmly bring up things like these are things i think we should talk about and is he willing to calmly say okay yeah, yeah, let's talk about it. Yeah. And not get defensive. And we talked, we put up word are like, I said my biggest, what my biggest worries were, and he said what his biggest worries were.

We sort of talked about that. It was interesting because we had different, different concerns. He was worried about not getting enough of like time him with his friends because I'm a very social person. I have a I play sports. So I'm on a sports team. So I have a lot of me time with my friends. And I just I'm he's not sure how he's gonna get it. And then my concern was like, if we're roommates, are we going to stop being lovers? Like, are we not gonna like we need to make sure we still have time to go on dates and like stuff like that. Do you have any advice about that? Like, after you move in, like how to make sure you still keep the like

relationship datey part? I think at the end of the day, whatever you prioritize will be, if you make it a priority, you'll make it a priority. You know, if, if it's a priority for you guys to stay connected and you know, stay lovers and not roommates, don't treat them like just your roommate. And again, like, you know, everyone poops, but like, it doesn't mean as soon as you live with someone that you like show them your most disgusting habits and, you know, and things like that, you know, eventually you're just going to become familiar with each other.

But it doesn't mean you have to like embrace it per se. As long as you guys communicate and are willing to bring up concerns and fears and just acknowledge it. Hey, it is fast to move in with each other. People have done it. Nally and I moved in much faster than six months. There were a lot of things that when we moved in with each other, we acknowledged these are the risks we're taking. These are the things that we're going to have to address. These are the things that might come up some of those actually came up some of them didn't but we were always we weren't afraid we didn't pretend that everything was rainbows and sunshines we

didn't pretend that we weren't trying to be the exception of the rule the exception of the rule being moving in maybe quicker than you otherwise should. Some of our friends. Yeah. You know. Yeah. Like that's a big thing. Yeah.

Some of our friends are moving in together. They've been together for a couple of years and we're like, oh, we're not there yet. Everyone moves at a different pace. Yeah. And I don't, I don't care, care about optics, you know, and I think whatever you make a priority will be a priority in your relationship. So if, if you prioritize staying connected, then you'll stay connected. But a lot of people don't prioritize that. They just assume it. They just assume that they're my boyfriend or girlfriend, we'll be connected.

Or they assume that moving in together will be some sort of magic potion of making you reconnect, which isn't the case. Or they assume money problems won't ever be an issue, or that's too awkward to bring up. So whatever your concerns are, if you two are willing to say, all right, acknowledge that this is a big step in any relationship. So obviously it's a big step in your relationship. And again, I think the biggest thing is acknowledge the coming change. What are the potential things that could change? You can't predict the future, so you might not get everything right,

but it's good to talk about the potential change. And it is important to like have your free time. It is important to have your space. You may find that you have a room for you and you may not use it that way, but you just say, hey, I'm pretty good at being alone. So like, I don't know how I'm gonna feel with you there, but I think it would help me out to just have this space for me.

Right. And being a little bit more flexible, too. Yeah. And there's a lot of couples who, weirdly, well, if they live together, they feel like they have to watch all the programs together. It's just like, I don't really like that show. And then they make their girlfriends watch sports, or they make their boyfriends watch some sort of reality TV show.

If you like the same programming, watch the same programming. But don't be afraid to have two TVs, and don't be afraid to like have you go watch your shit while he's doing something else. Like some couples are afraid to do things. I need my room just so I can get stoned and watch drag race by myself. You know what I mean? Like that's, that's what it's for. Yeah. And that's okay. You know, so you don't want to lose completely who you are. So maintaining a sense of independence is a huge and important thing when moving in with someone.

Because unless you talk about it and unless you make it a priority, it might not be a priority for the relationship. I think that's the biggest thing. And like, listen, my one bit of advice for you is stop telling yourself you're new to this. You know, I think you're ready for this. You're selling. Yeah. You're selling yourself short. I don't care if it's your first relationship. There's plenty of people who've been in their fourth relationship, but you still get the same shit wrong. So don't doubt yourself and don't take away whatever credibility you have. You seem like, I don't know, you're doing a lot of things right. So regardless of your first relationship,

you're checking in, you're having conversations, you're maintaining your independence. These are all great things. I don't know if this relationship is going to work out and neither do you. And I don't think if it doesn't work out, I doubt it's going to be like, because it's your first one. You have six months of like solid experience when it comes to having a partner. Right. And like a really healthy? Like really good relationship too, which is like something I've never seen. Are you less prepared because you didn't have three toxic relationships when you were 20 and 21?

You know, I got, yeah, that's a good point. That's a good point. I mean, I did. I just didn't call him serious.

Well, there you go. I was, I was the fuck boy. Yeah. So stop selling yourself short. You have plenty of experience and just keep trusting your gut. It sounds like your gut is steering you in the right direction.

And also like maybe I think it's really worth thinking about like differentiating between optics and like friends opinions and expressing concern and love. Cause like, I feel like even with like your good friends, like you kind of know if like maybe they're like a little bit jealous or they're a little crankier. They're pissed off that it took them three years for their goddamn boyfriend to finally agree to move in and so they're like hmm six months is quick and then you know the difference

between that and a friend being like whoa like do you feel good about this and so I think like also trusting your gut adding that to the list of things to trust your gut of like knowing the difference between like genuine concern that's coming from a place of like love and prioritizing you versus like you know all the bullshit the optics the whatnot that's a really good point because that's exactly what you described as our friends that took a long time to move in together kind of the ones that i was a little worried about judging us whereas like both of our parents are both of our moms are wicked supportive of us moving in together like they they're all on board um so it's just like yeah it's really about the what's the perspective that they're coming from too as long

as you're both mutually excited that's all that really matters you know and we're super excited but i think with a healthy dose of like a little bit of nervous energy too but that's fine you know because if you're excited then that means you will you will give you'll make it a priority and you'll do the things that you need to do to make it work. And as long as you realize that moving is, and isn't some sort of magic pill to save a relationship or some sort of preview to know what they're going to be like in a marriage, you know, like, yeah, sure. That's the other thing is I'm like, is this, is this like the preview? Is this the preview? Is this it for me like i don't know it's just scary but i mean there's plenty of people who've moved in with people and broken up so like

breaking a lease isn't that hard to do it's just not it's like i won't have a lease i refuse to ever sign a lease so oh yeah you're okay yeah you'll just move out of his house and um exactly well that's the thing is i i have nothing to lose really because if it doesn't work out i just am but i'm not thinking about that don't worry i'm not thinking about that i don't have an estate Well, that's the thing is I have nothing to lose really, because if it doesn't work out, I just am. But I'm not thinking about that. Don't worry. I'm not thinking about that. I don't have an estate plan.

I don't think there's anything wrong with it being realistic. Yeah. You're not married. You're not engaged. There's a difference between like having an out plan and just saying, hey, listen, we're not married. Or just telling yourself that. Yeah.

And you're with them because you choose to be, not because you're stuck. Exactly. It's just a matter of perspective. It's a great choice. Yeah. So just keep trusting your gut. Don't be afraid to have those honest conversations. There's no right or wrong per se.

There's no definite way to do that. You know? I think it's so awesome that you called in because I think there are so many times where like people write in who haven't been in a serious relationship and are so scared that they've like missed the boat or that there is some like prerequisite training. But like Nick said, like a toxic relationship when you're 21, like doesn't denote success. And the fact that you are like in this relationship and you seem so happy and healthy and you're thinking through the choices and he was willing to talk through this on a podcast with you is also a green flag. So like,

I'm so happy for you. And I also hope that like the people listening, like I think you'll hopefully be like a real like beacon of like, it's okay if like your love life isn't working out the way you want it to. It's not too late. You haven't like missed the boat because you're not dating in your earlier mid 20s. Like, this is awesome. Yeah. Okay. That's that's that makes me feel good. Thank you. Yeah. to let us know how you guys are doing. You can call in then and you can kind of give us an update on what's worked or what hasn't worked. Right. This is a very common question. People often get the moving in process wrong. And then when they do, it's easy to overreact. Listen, and also just know when you move in, there's going to be an adjustment period. So don't psych yourself out over new nerves. You might feel a little overwhelmed. You might feel a little lonely, right?

You might feel like, oh, well, I'm with them all the time. Why do I feel lonely? Maybe because they're busy and there's a presumption of having them around all the time. So just in the first couple months, don't overreact to anyone feeling, you know? Okay, that's really good advice. Because it is an adjustment. It's like I catastrophed. Yeah. So just, it's going to feel different.

And there will be some great times too. But don't psych yourself out if it's like, if it just kind of feels less glamorous than you hope. Like growing pain. Sure. Yeah. It's normal. Because they're just always fucking there.

Because even in situations where you have two people who are in a serious relationship and they spend all their time at one person's house, it's just not the same. Because just knowing you have a place to go to when you get sick of each other, even if you never use it, is a sense of freedom. And just knowing that for the people, and if they're at your house, it still feels like your place also you guys are going to be combining things you both you want it to feel like your place now you're moving into his place so that's more making sure that he is aware that you know just because he owns it if he really wants to make this a home for both of you then he needs to be open to making allowing you to make it feel like yours right and that means getting getting a room for myself and and all those things or how you guys decorate it and things like that having a say in that you know but the same time like having my own friends over like that's something that's going to be important to me too because i again like i'm a super social person more than him yeah that's another thing is like i

want to make sure i still have my friend time whether that's there or other place yeah yeah and and you're going to be paying rent so even though it's his place and he owns it is he going to be okay with him making it feel like it's your place too never wait to have these conversations till after you move in that's the biggest thing okay you know a lot of people avoid these conversations they just well you know it just our lease was up and like it just makes sense move in. That's the biggest thing. A lot of people avoid these conversations. They just, well, our lease was up and it just makes sense. So we should. And that's the conversation. Yeah. No, I need a little bit more meat than that. So that's why I wanted to talk to you. Yeah. So just talk about all the things that come up and just how you want to feel,

ask questions, what's important to you, what do you want to prioritize? And I think you guys will be in good shape. Okay. That's been super helpful. Thank you. All right. Well, good luck. Keep us posted. Will do. Thank you so much. All right. Bye-bye. Bye. Have a good one. Bye. Hey, all you people out there who want to feel like your best self, vitamins are a essential part to just making sure you get the nutrients you need. But if you're like me, you start taking vitamins,

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Blueland.com slash V-I-A-L-L for 15% off. That's blueland.com slash V-I-A-L-L to get 15% off. How's it going? Hi, my name's Haley and I'm 23 years old. How can we help Haley? I'm trying to save my parents' marriage and my family dynamic right now. All right. Well, that's an uphill battle just because you're not in the marriage or the relationship, which I'm assuming feels very helpless for you, uh, at being your parents. But, um, why do you even feel like you are in a position to save it?

I kind of got put into the situation by my mom, bringing up everything that's been going on with them. Um, and so I feel like since I know all the details and both of my parents are kind of not communicating that it's about time enough has happened where I can step in and say something. Why are they getting a divorce? So it's to be determined if they're getting a divorce right now. Why is it on the table? What originally happened was my mom found out last year that my dad was having an affair yeah um and my dad basically he refuses to go to therapy so we've

asked him and um right now the problem is my mom tells me kind of everything that's going on and my sister's a little bit um And my dad talks about nothing. He acts like everything's fine. They're living in the same house right now, but they're separated. She's brought up the word divorce, even though she's the one that doesn't want one. And he always says, I don't want to get divorced. So we're in a weird situation where they're separated right now. Who do you think is fighting for the relationship more? My mom, for sure. For sure. Well, she's the one that talks about it the most. My dad kind of, he's in the place right now where

he, when people are around, he acts like everything's great. And then, you know, behind closed doors, when we're at home, uh, they argue a lot. He doesn't like to talk about anything related to their relationship, but refuses to move out of the house or take any steps to, they're just in this stagnant place right now. So it's weird for me and my sisters. It's weird for my mom. Who lives at home? And I'm sure it's weird for him too. My little sister. How old is she?

She's 18. She's about to go to college though here in a month. So she'll be able to get out of that situation. It's been since last year that everything kind of went crazy. Their marriage, though, our whole lives was great that I would have you know i would say that i looked up to them um it it made me uh have something to look forward to in my relationships um that's why it's kind of strange that but i mean for all you know that had the perception of greatness rather than greatness itself true you know i mean a lot of parents and rightfully so decide to like, hey, we're not going to fight in front of our kids, which I actually think is a great quality. Whatever problems you do have, you don't need to involve the kids in it. You present yourself as a united front to

your children, but every relationship has its problems. So again, maybe it was the perception of greatness. That's the hard part. I think when doing that is like you know things don't end well it can seem like more of a surprise to like people like yourself being like oh my god i thought everything was amazing coming to find out it's like hey listen we just kind of didn't tell you kids everything because obviously we didn't want to burden you with the struggles that we had while we were raising you guys and as an adult i think that can be hard to to accept but also the affair, is it definitely not happening anymore? Did it stop? How did it stop? Do we on. So he... What do you mean? He was a lot sneakier. He was changing passwords to like our family Apple ID, just being shady in different ways and traveling a lot.

Now he's kind of... He's been home more. He's more... He's around more with my mom. Like we're going to family dinners and stuff. And they're planning things like they're going to have a halloween party in october but she made a comment that she was going to move out of the house in november so i don't i don't really know your mom is probably just saying things to try to get a reaction out of him because this is a man who

isn't reacting to anything and so that must drive your mom nuts is my guess. What's your relationship with your dad? I'm really close with my dad. I'd say that his relationship with us kids is not tainted at all. And how much have you been protecting that relationship? I guess what I'm saying is, how honest have you been with your father? Or how unhonest have you been for the sake of not, Ryan, to ruffle the relationship you have with him? accused him one night of it, just because my intuition was telling me something. And I asked him up front, I said, you know, did you cheat on my mom? And we got into a huge argument. And then after that, I just kind of never brought it up to him again. And we haven't, we talked more in terms of what's going on in my life, in his life, and none of it revolves around my mom anymore. But the problem is with my mom is every single conversation she has with me is about him.

Even if I get her the boundaries up, I don't want to talk about him. It somehow gets there. gets there. Recently, kind of the reason that it kind of came back up that I wanted to talk to you was my mom went to his side of the families. Like it was a kid's birthday. He didn't go. And she kind of started yelling at people or snapping at them. Somebody made a comment about divorce, like a joke between her and her husband. And my mom snapped at her and was like, don't use that word. Like, stop saying it. It's not funny. Um, and I guess she had said a couple other things to some other people there. I wasn't there myself, but my cousin called me. Um, and she's projected a couple of times towards me and my relationship, trying to tell me how to do things or talk to my boyfriend.

So she's projecting now, and I feel like her sadness has turned into anger. And with him, he, you know, like I said, he doesn't talk about anything so i don't know where to navigate now because i don't want her to keep going downhill and making people other people in her life that she loves hurt you know yeah so you originally called in you said save your parents relationship or if there's anything you can do from where i stand you're you're you're I stand, you're not doing what you can do. And that is, you're not being honest with your dad and taking advantage of the fact that you have a closer relationship with your father. And you're not willing to be the friend he needs right now out of fear of how that could affect your relationship with him. Now, it's not your job. It's like a lot to ask a kid to be the savior of their parents' relationship. But if it is something you want to do, that is an option for you. think you having surface level conversations about your life and avoiding any real conversations about your dad's choices when the cloud of your dad's choices is hanging over every aspect

of his life and your relationship and your mom's life. And honestly, the way you tell the story, I really feel for your mom. Your mom sounds like a prisoner of your dad's kind of emotional stonewalling. And she has nowhere to go and no one to talk to. And she is fighting for this relationship by herself. And almost kind of made out to sound like some crazy lady because she just wants to make this marriage work and is totally afraid of the prospect of starting over and moving on. And meanwhile, she's been victimized by this affair, which she doesn't even know if it's still going on, but your dad doesn't want to talk about it or does anything acknowledge his existence. And meanwhile, everyone, because it's uncomfy to talk

about, just kind of goes along with not talking about it. Exactly. Yeah. You hit the nail on the head. It's just as hard for us to like, where would I start that conversation? Because he thinks we don't know about the affair. Well, start there. You sit him down and say, We don't know about the affair. Well, start there. You sit them down and say, dad, you lead with love. I love you, dad. My relationship with you means so much to me.

I'm honored to be your daughter. I don't know, whatever you want to throw out there to make them feel good. But you said, I need to start being honest with you. I love you too much. I respect you. I'm an adult woman. I hope you respect me. And I'm going to start being honest with you.

I'm really disappointed in your behavior recently. I know about the affair. I can no longer not speak up. This is affecting my mom. And listen, I want nothing more than you and mom to work it out. And don't tell me to stay out of it because you're my parents. I can't stay out of it because I see how much mom's hurting. So do something about it. Leave her. And if you don't leave her, then go to therapy.

But you're being a chicken shit. Call him out. And if he doesn't want to deal with his trauma, I mean, that's his right. Then you maybe need to have honest conversations with your mom. Hey, mom, how long are you going to live here and allow dad to like keep you on standby what what are you getting out of this relationship you know like i don't want you guys to get divorced either but like he's not willing to work on this relationship with you you do you even know if he's still having an affair and if you want to involve yourself, you have the right, but you might as well start being honest with both of these parents. I will say I've been pretty honest with my mom too. I mean,

we've been having conversations since last June. What's even more unfair that you're being honest with mom, but not being honest with dad. Yeah. I agree. It's like your mom, because she's the only one wants to talk about it is like oh is being kind of victimized by you know so she's actually the one because i i've made

this comment before i said i'm about to say something i've been more recently i have been i said look you are breaking down all the time still. You don't know what you're going to do. I said, I'm about to say something to him. And for the longest time, it was, don't do anything to upset him. Don't talk to him about this. Don't tell him anything. Don't tell him that I cried today. She was protecting him and I was trying to protect her in the midst of it. But I think that at this point, nothing has changed. Yeah, stop doing that. Listen, you don't take notes from either of them.

Your mom's not seen clearly. Either is your dad. Again, I don't think this is your responsibility, but if you want to take up this mantle and you want to fight this fight, you really have to not not take sides and you got to trust your gut and you have to be just as honest with both of them. And you can say to your dad, like, this is, I'm an adult and I hope that you respect that I'm coming to you because of what I've witnessed. And if you go back to mom and blame her for anything, I'm coming to you. Like

I, you know, that, that will affect our relationship. You just got to hold your dad accountable. And the more calm you can be in the more kind of standing your power, you can be like, you're, you know, your dad's probably going to throw a temper tantrum and he's going to probably like say a bunch of shit. And the idea that his daughter is holding him accountable will probably throw him for a loop, but you know, he's acting like a child and hit him with some shame. I'm really disappointed in you. Are you treating mom the way you would want a guy to treat me? Are you acting in a way that you would want me to act? Would you be proud of me if I did the same things you did? I know therapy can be scary, but did you raise me to avoid facing challenges or did you

raise me to attack challenges head on? So why aren't you doing something about the way your actions are affecting this family? You hit him with some directness. You don't have to be me. You don't have to name call him, but you just be honest. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's just scary talking to him for some reason other than my mom um sure because he he's always been the optimist and i think that's why his whole avoidant thing works for him um because he wants to be happy go lucky all the time but he's the one choosing to i mean they're his actions and that's what i've told my mom is you know because she likes to defend him on things. And I'm like, look, he he made his choices. And so what's he going to say to me when I go to him and say, look, you know, he always wants us to hold ourselves accountable when we make mistakes. Why can't he? Exactly. Hit him with some shame. Also with your mom, honest too. Hey mom, you deserve better than how dad's been treating you. And I know you might not

see it. I know it can be scary, but you deserve better than this. Because at some point you might have to say to your dad, hey, listen, your actions are tearing this family apart and you're kind of slowly killing mom. And if you don't want to be with her, as much as that might break my heart, you need to let her go. Now, I promise you, your mom doesn't want you to say that to your dad. And there's a risk,

you could be risking your mom blaming you if your dad ends up leaving your mom because he decides that he just doesn't love her anymore. But your mom needs to like, she needs to hear from people like you that think she deserves more than what she's getting from your dad. And point out like, if I had a boyfriend treat me like how dad's been treating you, would you want me to stay with him? You're a 23 year old woman. Your character has been established. You know, whatever you stand for, I don't know. You have the capability, as difficult as it might be, to stand up to your parents and hold them accountable and check them and kind of point out how they are acting in ways in which they did not raise you.

And they are acting in ways in which they wouldn't want for you how they've been treating each other or treating themselves. Your mom hasn't been treating herself in the way she'd want you to treat yourself. Your dad hasn't been treating your mom in which way he'd want a man to treat you. And these are things you can both point out to your parents. And you can always lead with love and say, I'll always be there. It's not fair for either of you to put your kids in the middle of this. I want the best for both of you. I hope you guys work it out. But I also just want you both to be happy. And right now your behavior isn't like, I don't think either of you should be proud of it. And that's a tough conversation to have, but you know, I think they'll come around. Would you suggest that I have these conversations separate with them or sit them both down in a room and say, we have an elephant in the room for the past, you know, however long. I don't think you should point out to your dad that you know about the affair with your mom in the room. I would agree with that.

One more thing. He, I guess, recently, this past Friday, they went and had drinks at this outdoor seating area and whatnot. And I guess he had texted her a couple of days later and said, you know, I had a great time with you the other night. Things finally feel like they're going back to normal. And part of me is, you know, that's great, but I feel like he's either stringing her along, he's telling the truth or, you know, cause she got really excited about that. He might not even know. And again, like on the lack of interest in therapy, you know, I would call him a coward. You know, a shame is a powerful tool, especially when it coming from like kids or parents or things like that. Be like, listen, you're better than the way you're treating yourself and the way you're

treating my mom and the way you're treating us. And I don't think that's who you are, but it is what you're doing. So I think if you cared about us and you cared about yourself, then you, if for no other reason than for your children, you would be willing to investigate why you're behaving in such a toxic way, because I think you're better than this. You're not, that's not the dad that I grew up revering. You know, that's not the dad that I grew up revering. That's not the dad who was my hero my whole life. This is someone else. So can you work on being that person that I grew up having be my hero? Hit him with that. Fuck. Yeah. When I first brought up to him that, you know, I accused him of cheating on my mom.

He, you know, denied everything to my face. And that's why we got in a big fight. But he actually told my mom that crying, told her that he lied to me and he feels horrible about that. So, yeah, I think the shame thing might work. You have a lot of power here. Stay calm. You're not mad. You're just disappointed.

You know, just hold them. Just stay calm and just be like, this is, this is not okay. And the good news is, is that it sounds like there is something hopefully still there and maybe they can get through it. They're not going to be able to get through it on their own. They're certainly not going to be able to get through it by avoiding reality. Your dad's not going to understand why he's made such a such destructive choices without some therapy how would you tell him because i definitely want to bring that up that i you know call him a coward or whatever i'm gonna do about going to therapy um

when he you know don't call him a coward just be like i and yeah we'll just be like i'm sorry this makes you angry but like i don't listen i don't want to be in this position dad do you think i want to be here do you think i want to have this conversation with you do you think i enjoy calling out my dad about his behavior and again if you think this behavior is okay then maybe you don't need therapy but i think you're better than this the premise in terms of terms of why you have the right to bring this up is that you are giving your dad the benefit of the doubt. The benefit of the doubt that despite his toxic behavior, the same type of behavior that has the entire pop culture nation calling Tom Sandoval a sociopathic narcissist and the worst human alive, you know, the reason why you're not

willing to lump your dad into that category is because you believe he's a better person than that. Nevertheless, his actions have said otherwise. But you're willing to give him a benefit of the doubt that this is some sort of destructive personality, some past trauma that's creeping up. Ask your dad, are you willing to accept that this is the type of person you are? Are you willing to do something about it? Did you make a choice outside of your values or have your values changed?

Yeah. And I think it's important to like, like connect the dots of like, in addition to like, you know, the real accountability, like the path to hope, you know, it's like the gamblers are like double or nothing, double or nothing. Like it'll get deeper and deeper in the hole. And I think it's also like a really key part of it is connecting the dots of like, dad, like you can say like, you know, after all of the really hard, brutal truths, like after you've really kind of established that thing, dad, like you have stuff to do. Mom loves you so much. She wants to like she gets so excited when she feels hopeful and I get excited for that, too.

And like there is a path to like this family coming back together and like you're an amazing dad and I love you so much and I want I want to still feel like that about you and you have every like you can make choice you have more choices to make you made a really fucked up choice but like you have more choices to make and it would mean like I'm hoping more than anything that like you will make different choices yeah I think that's good. Because, you know, I think the whole reason he's been so avoidant is, he just feels, you know, he knows this is not his character, he feels guilty. And he doesn't want to, he doesn't want his kids to be disappointed in him. But the sad truth is, is we already know about it. And we we've known about

almost everything, which, you know, maybe my mom shouldn't have shared, but it is what it is. Um, cause if my mom's not going to say something, somebody needs to, or else he won't even have time, you know, she's going to be way far gone by the time he gets to change and, um, you know, take better actions for himself. Yeah. It's, it's a tough situation, but the good news is you are in control here and you have kind of all the power you could possibly want. It's just a really tough conversation for you to have. It's also not your responsibility or your job. And you can point that out to your parents, specifically your dad. But again, you need to convince your mom that she is not treating herself the way she would want you to treat yourself., you need to convince your mom that she is not treating herself

the way she would want you to treat yourself. And you need to convince your dad that he's not treating your entire family the way he would want you, someone else to treat you and your family. And stay calm and remind them that at the end of the day, both of their actions aren't helping each other or the kids. And it's not fair that you're stuck in this position, but at the same time, enough is enough. Your lack of doing anything is creating so much pain in this family. You guys aren't three anymore. We're all adults. You think we don't see this?

Also, the fact that your sister's about to go to college, it wouldn't. That's another thing. I'm curious how your dad's you know once once they become as empty nesters yeah i'm curious how it's gonna go too i think her and i had that conversation of you know either he starts having these conversations that he didn't want to have with her in the house or they get better and they talk more because they it is just the two of them. We don't know, but I mean. And you can say to your dad too, dad, the reason I'm doing this is because I was hoping if I was making the same decisions you were making that you would,

you would do this for me. And so I'm doing this for you. I mean, truly, just like, honestly, like the more you envision how you would want, what would make your dad proud? If you, if there's, let's say this situation, nothing to do with you, your parents and whether it was you involved in a situation or a very close friend, what would you have to do to make your dad proud of you? What kind of character choices would you exemplify that way? Your dad would, if he heard how you handled the situation, be like, that's my girl, that's my daughter. And if you just handle it that

way like the shame and guilt of you just and and the lack of fear of of facing your dad and and to say i love you but like you're better than this that's the theme with your dad and listen dad okay i don't want you to leave mom you both have the right to feel loved and be loved and if it's not going to be you she deserves for you to let her go and vice versa. I hope that you don't do it without a fight. Because quite frankly, I don't think you've fought for this relationship. I think you've taken the easy way out. I just think it's cowardly not to do everything you can to save a relationship. And I think it's cowardly not to do whatever you can to be your best self. And you're clearly not being your best self. And you haven't been able to be your best self on your own.

So it's time to ask for help. And you think this should be a face-to-face conversation, not like a letter. Yeah. Listen, whatever you're most comfortable with it, you need to be able to kind of stand in your power whenever you have it. I think maybe write it out first, practice what you're going to say, maybe read it to your dad. That's the best way because especially you could get nervous. You might lose your train of thought. You might forget to say something. So write it down. And even if you say, dad, there's a lot of things I have to say to you. I wrote it down. You don't tell me you have a letter to read to him. But when you meet up with him to say, can I just read this?

And just please listen to me and just read it to his face. It'll be emotional. You'll both cry. But I think that's probably the best way. That way you have everything written down. You don't forget anything. You can read it calmly. You're not giving some sort of speech or presentation.

It doesn't matter how you deliver it. But I think face-to-face is important, but I think writing it down will help you make sure you cover everything. You say what you want to say. You don't kind of veer off and lead with your emotions, so to speak. You kind of stay on message. So that's what I would do. Write it down and then read it to them. And as an aside, maybe make sure like if you and your sisters can spend some nice quality time together. I'm sure this has been so hard on all of you. It sounds like

you're really protective of your younger sister and aware of how hard it must be for her to be in the house. And like, you know, I know that in some ways it's bringing you guys together, but it's also been a huge rate. So if you can just like make some time to like shoot the shit on a phone call watch your favorite movie or something like that like you deserve to also have some nice time together because i'm sure this has been so hard on all of you yeah and give your mom some grace you know oh yeah yeah make her i have it's also hard you know i the whole thing is i've been hurting for her, um, through all this. And I think that's why I've kind of let her talk to me and then she, you know, she, she also has been in therapy, but she, um, she feels that they don't really give her any guidance. She wants more advice

and she thinks they just listen. And said you know kill get another therapist but um she really has no one else to talk to because yeah but i get it too sometimes you hear someone complain over and over you just kind of get sick of their complaints and you kind of roll your your eyes on them just at them just tell her how great of a mom she is help your mom feel confident about herself it'll go a long way and and just gas her up and tell her she's pretty and tell her and make your mom. She's a hot mom. Yeah. Your mom needs to feel good about herself.

And I would just focus on that right now. And let your mom vent if you can handle it. Because she probably feels like she has no one to talk to. Because it's not easy. Who do I talk to? I don't want the world to know I'm having all these struggles. but like, I need to get it out, you know, and it's a tough situation. And I'm sorry, you're going through this. It's like, you don't deserve to be stuck in this relationship, but in the situation, but I think you do have a lot to work with if,

if you want to involve yourself. Yeah, I agree. I'm going to listen to this recording back and you give me a lot of things to say that I wouldn't think to say, I guess. I would probably have went off emotion and went off, you know, things me and my sisters talk about, but we're, you know, navigating this and something we shouldn't be navigating. So the way you went about it, I think will work really well. Yeah. Again, the big takeaway is even before you listen to it, think about what character matters to you, what you think it matters to your dad. How did your dad raise you? What kind

of woman did he raise you to be? And ask him if he thinks he's acting in that way. Just kind of turn it around on him. Would you be proud of the way you have been treating our mom? Or would you be okay with a man treating me like this? Would you be proud of the way you have been treating our mom or how would you would be okay with a man treating me like this would you be okay with me just saying to you know if i if there was a potential solution to any of our problems would you be okay with me not addressing every possible solution well then why isn't therapy a possible solution for you at least i have the guts to tell you he'll be receptive yeah i do too i think he will um he would do anything for the three of us girls um so that's a lot of power so it's time to use that power no yeah i'm ready i have your book by

the way and i love it oh well thank you I appreciate it. Unfortunately, there's not a ton there. No, there's not. You know why I looked. But yeah, write the letter, focus on character and how he's treating himself and your mom and ask him if he would be okay you doing the same, if he would be proud of you if you treated him like he's treating his family real real tearjerker bringing up the stories from childhood so if there is a time when like that really exemplifies like character for him starting the letter with that like really

I do think that's a good point to bring up well good luck and and just make sure you lead with love with both of them let them know how much you care about them and love them. You're not mad. You're just disappointed. Okay. All right. Thank you, Nick. All right.

Take care. Good luck. And keep us posted, please. Thank you. I will. All right. For sure. Okay.

Bye-bye. Good luck. Thanks for listening. As always, don't forget to send in those questions at asknickatthevilefiles.com. We'll see you back tomorrow. Bye.