The Viall Files - E628 Reality Recap with Justin Glaze, Bachelorette Finale, and Rachel/Bethenny Backfire

Episode Date: August 22, 2023

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Reality Recap Edition! We are joined by Justin Glaze to break down the finale of The Bachelorette. We first speak with Justin and Natalie about current pop culture moments - such as Rachel’s three part interview with Bethenney Frankel, and Dax Shepard feeling financially anxious. We then dive into Charity’s finale - from sending Aaron B home to choosing Dotun to Joey as our new Bachelor (with an audience member joining his season). We finally ask Justin about his dating life and get to the bottom of why he’s single.   “I am not that easy.”  Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes. Join us for our new LIVE show on Thursdays at 9PM ET/6PM PT on Amp, available in the Apple app store. Android User? Listen here: https://www.onamp.com/   To Order Nick’s Book Go To: http://www.viallfiles.com  If you would like to get some texting advice on Office Hours send an email to [e-mail] with “Texting Office Hours” in the subject line! To advertise on the show, contact [e-mail] or visit https://www.advertisecast.com/TheViallFiles  THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Aura - Aura is offering our listeners a 14 day trial plus a free check of your data, visit https://www.Aura.com/VIALL  FabFitFun - Create your box now at https://www.FabFitFun.com/VIALL   EveryPlate - Get $1.49 per meal by going to https://www.EveryPlate.com/podcast and enter code 49viall.  Rakuten - Start shopping at https://www.Rakuten.com or get the Rakuten app. Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @nnataliejjoy @[e-mail] @liffordthebigreddog @dereklanerussell 

what's going on everybody welcome back to another episode of the vile files reality recap edition bachelorette finale edition all of the above hope you all are doing well hope you'll enjoy it congratulations to Charity and Dotton the happy engaged couple round of applause our next bachelor Joey

what's the pulse with Joey I mean short king you know is he short he's that short uh relative to dotten to the rest of the bachelor i believe he's under six foot i want to say he's 5 11 so for bachelor that's kind of a big deal yeah what do we think are we excited they're going diverse in the short inclusivity inclusivity i mean he's not actually short but are we excited no not yeah i feel like golden bachelor is kind of top of mind right now you know yes it's hard to it's hard to feel as much excitement about joey when it's like we got jerry in the wings but isn't

that a problem yeah i don't know maybe they need to like go back to the well man like there just hasn't been a lot of hype could Could they just pick someone from like... I don't know. What if they pick Justin? What if? What if they pick someone else besides Justin? They can go back into the well. They need a Tyler Cameron.

Tyler wouldn't do it, but... They need a Tyler Cameron. But who else is there in the well that they could pick from that has the same type of excitement? I don't think they've cultivated their talent well. Maybe Joey will surprise, you know? Seems nice. He's 5'11 and 170 pounds, according to his college tennis website.

So he's 5'10. Letting everybody know. His college athletics lies by at least an inch. Mine says 6'3. I'm 6'2. Wow. He's 5'10. Wow.

Wow. I want some tall women on this upcoming season of The Bachelor. I want representation. I want some 6'1 women upcoming season of The Bachelor. I want representation. I want some 6'1 women. Yes, 100%. Absolutely. They're out there. They're on your heels.

I live with one of them. Let's get some representation. I do think that would be kind of cool. Yeah. Well, our special guest, you heard him. Justin Glaze is with us. Welcome back, Justin. Thank you.

You're not necessarily the focal point of this episode, which is a blessing. Perfect. You're here to commentate with us. I'm in the background. Last time we had you here, you were talking about your broken relationship with Eliza.

Oh my God. The way you delivered that. Brutal. That was crazy. Flashbacks. Yeah. War zone. Yikes.

How's your heart? I'm glad we're not talking about that. How are you? Yeah, we're holding strong, Nick. You're holding strong you're holding strong holding strong what have the do you have any thoughts on on the characters of the season have you met any of the guys you know anything about do you have any tea i don't know too too

much about a lot of them i somehow came in i was at the same i was at melrose place a couple weekends ago when they were all here for the tell-all and we had no clue that they were going to be there so i was texting one of the producers who i'm friends with and he was like oh by the way all the guys are here i was like what guys i pull up it's the whole squad and so i was like okay well this sucks kind of keeping my distance yeah but uh no i really don't know why didn't you mingle were you like royalty when you walked in were they like oh no but you know and like people accuse us of doing it as well but like you know especially like when you're fresh off the show it's like those guys were like you know they're standing up on the tables they got the bottles

they were like wanted they don't like the signs oh they were popping bottles and i'm like i don't want any part you know what i mean like they got the the light up signs like bachelor yeah i'm good he's like senior at a freshman party kind of thing yes i'm like i'm okay um a couple of the guys were really nice so actually it was crazy the one i talked to the longest was fp the peter guy the new pilot you know how they uh they all said fuck peter on the thing oh so i had no clue about that when i met i was like this guy's really nice we exchanged content information if i'm ever in new york i'll probably hit him up we got coffee you connected we connected we networked his cast mates fucking yeah i know i was shocked i was like wait this was the nicest guy there that's nuts

crazy did you meet anyone that you were like i'm good on that oh by the way natalie joyer pop culture sport correspondent and amanda returns from her vacation. We just dropped the ball on your intro. Are you kidding? There was just a lot to get into. Oh my gosh. Yes, it's a full house.

Genevieve's outside editing. Who? Don't worry about it. Justin. Who? The only other person here. She was there at Miller's place too,

actually. Is it? She's on the table. Got coffee with her too. I'm sorry. Continue now. Coffee connected. I don't even know

what I was saying. You were asking who else. Was there anyone that you were like, yeah, I'm sorry continue now you were asking who else was there anyone that you were like yeah I'm good on that you can stay over there I feel like I'm pretty intuitive like anybody like that I usually just don't gravitate towards who was on the table was it Sean I feel like it was Sean the blonde

Shrek prince he thinks he looks like Ken wait who's next that's a 5 year old picture is it 5 year old Anna Oh. Shrek Prince? He thinks he looks like Ken. Wait, who's next to him? That's a five-year-old picture. Who's the girl? Is it five-year-old Ally? Seven. Seven-year-old Ally?

Ally. Wow. That's something. Terrifying. Nothing will be better than we showed this to Andrew when he was here and he goes, who's the little girl? I was hoping it was one of you guys' baby pictures. I was going to say that's insane, but I didn't know if it was somebody's baby picture.

It's a baby picture here. So I was like, this is a baby picture of Sean. What, um, what's the Shrek character that they talk about? The prince. The prince. The Shrek.

With the chin. That's nuts. I feel like he was on the table with a sign. Yeah. I don't recall. No comment. Yeah. It was just,

wasn't my type of scene. But Peter was cool. Peter was cool. The only other person that I've ever had heard of from that season was the guy Aaron. Aaron. Yeah. Which one? Not our favorite.

Aaron B. Who's the other Aaron? Is there another Aaron? There's a firefighter Aaron. Oh, he's dead in our eyes. Oh my God. Rest in peace. Reality TV dead.

The other Aaron. The other Aaron. The guy who complained himself all the way to hometown. And then came back. You've met him. You know of him. I shook his hand. Good handshake? Yeah. Did he lick you in the eyes? Yeah.

I also talked to the guy who knit for a hot set. Xavier. But Aaron, the only backstory I'd heard about Aaron. The guy who was like was like no I still might cheat on you send me home but was also like sorry for the Peter thing that was low character oh that was that's Xavier yeah but yeah but then weirdly like said like well who did he blamed

it on Brayden for telling it was Brayden's fault for telling Peter it wasn't their fault for doing it's kind of sounding a lot like Raquel. I can't say anything. Like, why'd you have to tell me?

Well, speaking of Raquel, should we hop on into that situation with Bethany? Because I feel like I need to unpack this. Yeah. Welcome. Yeah. You've been gone.

Yeah. I, for anybody who is, everybody must know by now that Raquel was on three part interview, Bethany Frankel's podcast. Three part interview. And then Bethany did a fourth giving her own reactions. Anyways, sorry, go ahead.

What were people's overall like takeaways? Was it helpful to hear some of Rachel's perspective? Was it really upsetting for other people? Upsetting in what way? Yeah. What'd you think, justin so here's the thing i and i don't know if it's like a recency bias thing but i kind and i'm by no means like absolving or you know obviously her actions are are crazy but i did think in when watching

the reunion and then listening to the podcast with Bethany, I did think, like when I watched the reunion, I was kind of like, I'm uncomfortable with how just like... Mean they were to her? Mean and attacking. It was like, okay, like I get it. It was awful what she did. But I'm like, you know, one part that stuck out to me in the podcast is when Bethany said that she took it to her

therapist and he watched it and he was like, you know, there's a difference between punishment and abuse and this was just abuse. I was just sitting there there like she is taking this on the chin and i get what she did but at a certain point it's like guys this is a human still did you find raquel more likable unless she's a hell of an actress like she seemed to come off genuine which i'm hesitant to say because you have to be like obviously she's seeing someone because she's got a lot of issues that she needs to work through. And she has been hiding this for seven plus months.

Right. So I don't know, like, am I naive to believe her? But like, she seems like she is taking ownership and accountability and wanting to be better and not lie anymore. You know, even at the sake of like ruining, you know, Sandoval being the only person that's in her corner, like whatever. But I, as a listener, I was like, like, I believe you. And like, I had a little bit of a thought like interesting take again i'm not

absolving her of her actions i'm not condoning what she did but like listening i was like okay like i hope she can be better and get better i don't know if i believe her or not believe her i guess i tend to believe her but to me it's not really doesn't really matter for her oh yeah i mean those relationships are done like which is. I just thought the whole episode was hilariously meta in the sense that Rachel had this very unique opportunity. And I don't know why Rachel did a podcast. I don't know what her motives were. I assumed it was from the position of like a PR move,

right? Otherwise, why do it? I assumed it wasn't just to be Bethany Frankel's martyr, but maybe it was. Maybe she was just there for Bethany's cause. But Rachel had this unique opportunity. So she goes on the show. We never really got to hear from Rachel without her being interrupted or yelled at or things like that. There was never really... She, unlike a lot of people, really of disappeared, you know, and from around, she, she truly fell off the grid.

A lot of people in our space, in our world, you know, they really don't, they kind of pick their head up and shit like that, but she did. And so I would have thought that had she came back and had an opportunity to be given a platform, I thought it would be an incredible opportunity for her. We all love a comeback. And despite what she did, and it was horrible that she did that, but someone who said that she was going to invest in herself and she did this therapy and yada, yada, yada, I felt like it ultimately backfired. Because while I see your, and I'm sure other people have agreed with your opinion, but it's my understanding of the overwhelming majority of the people who had listened to it feel the same way about Rachel. She has the vitriol and hate that went Raquel slash Rachel's direction in the past seems to just been reinvigorated.

You know, it's like we kind of forgot about her. Now she's back on the scene. And now people seem to be just as angry so i was gonna say when you say she had a unique opportunity in a platform do you mean coming back in the sense of like she does her own podcast where she's in control of her store or she comes back for another season or what platform whatever the platform she chose she went she chose bethany's right yeah i mean i if i were her i wouldn't have gone back on the show yeah she's choosing not to i think it was smart for her not to do.

But I'm saying her first time popping up. Yeah. She had a built in audience. Yeah. People were going to listen wherever she did it. And people were very much going to want to hear what she had to say. And essentially, despite the first 10 minutes of her saying, I was wrong. I want to apologize to anyone who was triggered by my behavior, yada, yada.

And after the first 10 minutes, Bethany made the whole episode about Bethany's cause. Bethany's cause being, you know, reality TV stars are mistreated by the people who make reality TV in a nutshell, right? Well, she wasn't even hiding it. She titled the episode Reality Reckoning, not like Rachel finally speaks. The focal point wasn't Rachel, which is kind of funny. But that could also be why she chose Bethany because she knew she was going to look out for her,

whatever, but like, I don't know what other platform would have been that sort of like in her corner almost. And protective. Right. It was like she was like motherly over it. Yeah, it was so, and like Bethany mentioned that a number of times,

like with the age gap, like you tell she really viewed her like as a maternal figure. And I think so much of the point of this was like Rachel trying to humanize herself and being like,

this is what happened to my parents. And granted, it's a really fine line of like humanizing yourself and explaining the context of which you made mistakes, not as an excuse,

but as hopefully a means of just like explaining it to people and maybe like letting people have their own like self-awareness of how to prevent that in the future. And like, just like people having the insight of like, what, how does this all happen? And like, what are some of the things that like, I'm sure it must've been really hard for her. Like there are so many things that like, she was like, they're wrong about this. I have no doubt.

That's the thing. I think for me and for most people listening, it wasn't really about what Rachel was saying was the truth or not. And when I say it was so meta is because like because I honestly think that Bethany, when she did this interview and Rachel reached out, I think Bethany had the best intentions. I think that she thought, I'm going to set this girl up. I got her back. I'm going to protect her, whatever.

But Bethany was so blinded by her own ambitions, her own cause. It wasn't about, all right, here's this girl who's been beat up by the press, been beat up by her peers, been beat up by the show. And I want this experience to go amazing for her. So I want her to come in here and let's just craft some questions or whatever. And because at the end of the day, I want this to be her big comeback. And had Raquel spent all her time, whatever it was, one episode or three episodes or four or whatever, whatever time that she decided to talk, that it was just about that, just saying, I just want to take accountability. I want to talk about the therapy. I want to get

in depth to my behavior. I want to talk about my decisions while Tom and I were having this affair and the things that I got triggered by and things that I would do differently in the future than I did in the past. All those things. And when Bethany served up like, well, what about this? What about that? Rachel could have been like, you know, listen, that's for another conversation. That's for other people to discuss. I just I'm just here to take accountability and talk about how I'm moving forward. Instead, Bethany made it about her cause. She basically, in a way, set up Rachel. She kind of stirred the pot like i feel like rachel now is in more drama than before because now she said all these new things like james likes the sensation of getting bitten by his dog that was crazy yeah not only that but like it was basically

i believe that other than the first 10 minutes right it was bet was Bethany asking questions and making statements and Rachel making statements that essentially were either one or two things. Downplaying the affair by saying things like their relationship wasn't that serious or I wouldn't have, you know, it's just kind of watering down how bad it was and blaming other people. She was putting blame on other people. I also thought it was a bad look kind of to to your point of, maybe it was, I know it was inadvertently, but Bethany kind of setting Rachel Raquel up. I thought it was a misstep when they went into the monetization of it. Yeah. Are you more concerned about that or redeeming yourself or taking accountability? Rachel, I mean, Bethany was.

And this is, you know, Bethany thought she had. Oh, the Bethany clauses. Bethany thought she had this like home run. In Bethany's recap, she literally in the first 30 seconds said how proud of herself that Bethany was like, I'm so proud of myself. Literally. And she also mentioned all the hate that Rachel is now getting as a product of her interview. And then she is like a throwaway. It's like so obvious that Bethany doesn't even fuck about Rachel. And this was all about Bethany and her cause. And when I say she set up Rachel,

now it's not Bethany's fault. Like Rachel took the bait. Rachel came across to me as someone who like, yeah, she's sorry. She also thinks she's the victim. I would have thought that Rachel would have done this interview with the hopes that after people listen to it. And anytime someone comes on this show, who's maybe getting some heat and I'll just tell them like, just be honest and be hard on yourself and let the audience protect you. Let's let the audience come to your defense. Like don't make excuses for your behavior. Just own it. And not everyone's going to come around on you, but a lot of people will. I thought Rachel would come on to talk about her character and why, despite the mistake that she

made, that she is committed to being like, I want people to trust me being friends with them. I want girls to be okay with me being in the same room with their boyfriend. Because what I did was wrong. And I recognize it was wrong. And I never want to be that person. And I'm committed to that. And you would have thought that Rachel, of all the things that she could talk about, that would be her goal. That people would leave that interview and go, you know what?

Yeah, she fucked up. Yeah, she destroyed a relationship. She hurt a lot of people and a lot of friendships. But she seems like she's on the path of healing. And I was rooting for her. I wanted Rachel to have that opportunity, but instead it was Rachel, to your point, she was literally, talking about the money, she was complaining that she wasn't profiting from her affair. How is that a smart move? She had me in the first half.

It's just like, yeah, no, no. Like, yeah, everyone else is profiting. That's the thing what's so meta about it is that Bethany once talked about in the first episode, she was like, she talked about how the producers will say this thing. Justin, it'll resonate with you. When Cass is like, I don't know if I should come back on the show. I don't know if I should do this. Producers, they're right. And they're right.

They will say, well, do you want to tell your story? You want other people to tell your story? And you can call that manipulation, call it what you want, but it is a useful thing that obviously producers say. And let's imagine for a second that Bethany gets a call from Rachel. Rachel's like, hey, Bethany, I want to do your podcast. Bethany's like, oh my God, great. I'm going to fly out. She flies out to Arizona because apparently that's where they did it. And the last minute Rachel wakes up, she calls up Bethany in the morning and she's like, Bethany, I don't know. I'm having second thoughts. I don't know. I've been like off the grid. And to be honest, like keeping my head down,

I've never been happier. And I honestly just, I don't really see the point because I just feel like I'm just going to stir the pot and I don't think it's going to go well. I don't think it has to be good for my mental health and yada. Do you really think Bethany would have just got back on a plane and gone home? I mean, no. Do you really think Bethany would have not said some version of like, do you really want other people to tell your story? Or do you want to be the empowered woman that you are and stand up for yourself? You know what I'm saying? And when I talk all the time on this show, whether it's The Bachelor or Vanderpump, and I try to give a perspective of both sides, perspective of me, the position that Justin and I have been in. I've been fucked by producers. I've been fucked by the show. It's all happened. But at the same

time, these producers, they're also doing a job too. And it's not like all the producers are these evil people or all the cast are these good angels. I've heard so many horror stories about cast talking viciously to production and saying some shit to them and things like that. And this is all to say, it's just funny because I think what is often the truth is that these producers, yeah, they might say some shit and they'd be the friend that gets you to do the thing that you deep down want to do, but maybe your friends would tell you not to do it. Because when I went out, I have my regrets on the show, but I didn't do anything that I didn't want to do. I might've had a producer give me some bad fucking advice, but I did ultimately what I wanted to do. And I just think Bethany proved, Bethany gave,

articulated and showed by how she handed this interview, the producer slash talent and relationship in reality TV. Because to me, I wouldn't be shocked if a year from now, Rachel goes on some other podcast and complains that she feels used by Bethany. Because all that Bethany has done for Rachel is just recreate all the fucking hate that she was getting. It's not Bethany's fault that Rachel took the bait. Because ultimately, Rachel could have been like, you know what, Bethany, I just want to, you know, take accountability. But what Rachel, I suspect will do in about a year from now is when the dust settles, she won't take accountability and she will blame Bethany for being like, well, she told me she was going to protect me and she told me

this was going to go. And I trusted Bethany because she's been in it for so long and yada, yada, yada, yada, yada, yada, yada. And I think it's just kind of hilarious. It was so hilarious that Bethany did it. And I don't fault her for making money off the podcast, but like Bravo, who will unnecessarily take a reunion and cut up into three fucking weeks, here's Bethany cutting up one episode into three fucking episodes. I mean, it was just hilarious just how on the nose it was. And with Bethany talking about how the reality train just keeps on moving and everyone's just like kind of trying to keep on it. Like Bethany doesn't realize that she's still on the fucking train.

Like she might not even be on a show, but she's part of the rat race and she is in it. And like, this is all about Bethany, you know, it's just all about her cause and getting credit for the cause and saying how she doesn't care about the credit, like constantly is like it's just kind of hilarious to me do you think bethany's gonna cut rachel a check in the podcast oh yeah she also like you don't know if i paid her how do you know what i did i'm like okay you know where did you the receipt yeah it's pretty easy to say you did i don't think she should pay her you know to be clear i just think it's hilarious just how much shit she's talking. And yet she used the fuck out of Rachel's story for her own cause. Rachel is not in a better place than when she went on Bethany's podcast at all. She had this golden opportunity and she wasted it by being Bethany's martyr. To me, there are a few facts that like struck me as like, oh, this feels like relevant information. I don't know if it's possible for Rachel to be the bearer of this information, even though she's might be the only person who knows. But I'm curious, like with these things that came out in the interview, which I'll list, do you think there is a way to otherwise publicize that of like, I think the revenge porn part was really significant.

Oh, that was, you know, and the fact that Tom insisted on not getting cut out of her calling him out for recording something without her consent, the fact that he can insist on that getting cut out, the fact that she said, OK, well, you can say maybe Rachel doesn't deserve any brand deals, doesn't deserve to profit in that way from like a pure cast perspective. I think you could say she deserves the same pay as Tom and Ariana on the next season. I think she has the right to ask for it. I'm just looking at this as strictly like PR. You know what I'm saying?

Like, what was the smart thing to do? I think it's hilarious just how un-self-aware Bethany is coming across for someone who historically presents herself as somebody who is very self-aware. And I've always been a Bethany fan. You know, like she is very much an iconic person in reality TV, but I just think it's just so hilarious just how selfish Bethany was and how she couldn't see what she was doing was damaging someone in reality TV when her whole cause is about how reality TV networks use reality TV people to their own benefit. And it's not because they have this like evil agenda. It's not because they have this evil agenda.

It's just because they're more worried about their cause, which is to make a great TV show and keep their jobs and have drama. And everyone acts like they're in on it, which they are. You know what I'm saying? And it's just kind of funny to me that Bethany sounded this way. To your point, I think there are, yes. I think, one, if I were Rachel's PR or our manager, I'd be like, there'll always be time for that. This is your first time coming out. Let's focus on accountability. Bethany was trying to paint Rachel as the victim.

Rachel wasn't necessarily trying to paint herself as the victim. She just took the bait. She should have waited. Because if you're talking accountability, it's too soon to show receipts for accountability. Not necessarily. Maybe. I'm really curious. Like if you're interviewing Rachel, what do you ask her?

I would just want to lean into the work she's done. I would ask a follow up question. You know, she talked about the love addiction. Like Bethany didn't give a fuck about any of that. She just glossed right over it and was just like trying to throw in questions about how she was mistreated by either the cast or production. That's all Bethany cared about. So there was no like, yeah, it's really interesting.

Tell me more for the people listening who might resonate with that. Because she doesn't know more. She's just, I don't watch this. I don't know anything. Even when she said, I have a love addiction, which is when you confuse intensity for intimacy. I was like, oh, let's dive into that. That has nothing to do with the show.

That's just an interesting concept. I've done a handful of these interviews, and the advice I give to the cast is just like, just don't lie. I may even ask you questions that will give you the opportunity to complain. Don't take the bait. I'm just posing the question to get the idea out there and I'm going to let other people run with it. I do think it's important, though, to acknowledge what an uphill battle it is to get people

to change their mind. No, everyone came into this interview cracking their knuckles ready to shit on Rachel. But we've had, I've had interviews like that and I'll tell, I'll tell the people, come on, just so you know, you're not going to change everyone's mind. Yeah. Some people are just going to fucking hate you, but we can change a lot of people's minds and that's up to you.

So it's how you handle it, how you answer the questions and things like that. She changed no one's mind. Maybe just. But I'm just kidding. But like sure, some people were more focused on Bethany's campaign but anyone focused on Scandival and Raquel, it sounds like

the fallout, even per Bethany, Rachel's getting a ton of hate. And for someone who's been, and to your point, no one deserves, I don't think she deserved to be treated that way. You know what I'm saying? are doing so i guess i'm just coming from a place where i'm like okay not that my mind has changed what she did was horrible and everyone in that cast has the right to feel how they feel towards her i'm just saying okay taking a step back like do i think she deserves to be to go fuck yourself with a cheese grater and you're less than human you're like no like okay let's everyone relax that's all i'm saying like i think she is i again unless she's duping my ass and she's that great of

a liar or actress like i feel like she's actually tryinging my ass and she's that great of a liar or actress, like I feel like she's actually trying to be better. Has she gone about it the right way? Probably not. I believe that she's remorseful and trying to take the steps to get better. Yeah, totally. I hear what you're saying. And I just, I think unfortunately for Rachel, for people who were heavily invested, it didn't

land and it didn't land because Bethany tried to paint Rachel as the victim and she made it all about Bethany's cause and she didn't give a fuck about Rachel's cause. I think she genuinely thought I don't know that you know, I don't think she genuinely thought she was like, no, I'll just I'll make all appeal to the mothers. I'll appeal to all the people who have had a friend who's been through the shit like I will ask questions that will make people humanize this poor girl and see all the stuff that she's endured even though she's fucked up. I totally believe that Bethany thought she was doing Rachel a solid.

And I just think she was caught up in her own bullshit and her own selfishness that she couldn't see it. Which is exactly how I see the producer-cast relationship

where, like, I don't think the producers are trying to fuck anyone over. They're just more like, you know, produced on The Bachelor. What they're focused on, like, if I'm Justin's producer, I'm focused on Justin finding love. And that's all I fucking care about.

And I've convinced myself that like the shit I say and blah, blah, blah. I think producers, number one priority is making good TV. Yeah, that's their goal. Because they put us in some positions where if love was the priority. But what I'm saying is like. Things would go a little bit different. You're absolutely right. It's TV first and love,

but like they have a job, they have a literal job to do. And I think they often get blinded by the job they have to do. And it's not because they're like evil and brainwashed. It's like, and it's not an excuse. Just like, I don't think it was an excuse that Bethany completely fucked over Rachel,

even though she had good intentions, you know, but she just couldn't realize that instead of helping out Rachel take accountability and have this be step one of maybe many steps. Because, yeah, she could have her come back like later and get into it and kind of not have it be a whole set of an episode trying to paint her as the victim. But just be like, you know, ask her a question and just have it like have tease that information here or there on the show. I'm just saying, when was it as a good time for Rachel? I don't think the network would ever tell the information that she. Yeah, she doesn't have to do it all at once would be if I were giving Rachel advice.

I'm like, you don't have to do this all at once. This is your first time speaking. So people just want to know if you are really sorry. Basically, Rachel should have come on the file files. That's what I'm hearing. And she still can't. I think she's got more. No, if you are really sorry. Basically, Rachel should have come on the vile files. All in all. That's what I'm hearing. That's what I'm saying. And she still can't.

I think she's got more. I don't know if there's anything I can do at this point. I think when you start complaining that you should have been paid for your affair, it's just not going to land with a lot of people. Somebody else who's in a financially insecure situation, did you see that thing about Doc Shepard? He talked today about how with the writer's strike, how he's like in a two month spiral of just completely out of hand financial insecurity. There's this new fear of I'm somehow going to be broke or I'm going to lose everything. Podcasting is going to be over.

There's an actor strike. I'm not going to act. So it was interesting to me to see someone who is like so successful and powerful also express that like, I feel like so many times we assume people who have these huge platforms are like, oh, of course they're making bank. How much did Dax Shepard make in a Spotify deal? So his deal started July 1st of 2021, and it said that his deal was similar to Joe Rogan's deal with Spotify, which was $100 million. What's his definition? Well, I think...

And prior to signing that Spotifyify deal i think he was making anywhere from five to ten million dollars no but i think the point of him saying that was it stems from a childhood yes yes very much where he's like yeah he's like it's not related to reality it's from growing up poor i just can't shake it so it's like i guess it's just a weird thing to say for it's for someone who's worth hundreds of millions of dollars yeah do you think it's like i guess akin to the previous conversation, like one of those things where it's impossible to be relatable? Because I do think there's some way you could interpret as like, oh, wow. Okay. Like no matter how successful you get,

you never overcome like the inner child in you who's like freaked out and scared and has a scarcity mindset about certain things. So do you think in any way it's like humanizing or it's only like- Or is he so far removed from reality that his idea of broke is not realistic? Yeah, I don't know. Was Dak saying that to garner sympathy or was it just kind of like, hey, this is a weird thing about me. I think he was saying it's like a two month spiral and it's not saying like he fears that now. I think he's even kind of admitting it's just this like fantasy fear that might not actually happen. He says this new fear of I'm going to be broke or i'm gonna lose everything podcasting is gonna be over

i'm not gonna act it's so foundationless it's preposterous so he's saying that makes sense right like that like i think everyone who is in whatever field it may be. I relate. I just wouldn't have the guts to say that. And I'm worth a fraction of what Dax Shepard is. And I still feel incredibly blessed. Do I experience like, hey, I remind Natalie all the time, we are so fucking grateful and lucky that I don't know how long this fucking train's gonna go. It's not a thing.

But let's keep working hard and keep buckling down and but let's just be grateful while we're here that's conversations that we have as a couple i just wouldn't have the guts to to be like yeah for two months i was worried if i want to be poor you know i just i don't know it's like a bold move he did also uh like link it to how his parents thought about money when he was a kid and about how he was... I know the feeling. Yeah, he was kind of making the parallel of you're worried that not only am I going to be broke but am I going to enter

personal turmoil because my relationship is going to be ruined because it just puts people in such a difficult position. Here's where I'm way too logical of a thinker because when you guys spit out all these numbers, right? He could probably never work a day in his life and invest that properly and be just fine for his entire life.

But again, I don't know how many people think that way. Maybe he's a huge fucking spender. We're not even talking about his wife's money. I don't know, maybe they keep everything separately, but he's married to one of the highest earning women in Hollywood. I got to say, it's just kind of weird timing given that there is a strike and there are striking for so many unemployed

work working actors who aren't able to make ends meet and have to take side jobs and it's just like weird timing to like say that yeah definitely an attempt at being like even the people at the top are like uncomfortable and nowhere near as uncomfortable as you which is i think what you're speaking to of like are you sure you're making it very clear that this is like preposterous and that like you are very well off but i do think maybe it's meant to be like for all those other writers the staff writers the people who are early on in their career who are like scared and facing this uncertainty like i am also experiencing that i might be doing it in a very different situation what a weird way to try to empathize hey i know you're actually broke and afraid of making ends meet but i'm also worried that i might be broke i'm definitely never gonna be broke i have so much fucking money i don't i'm

but i i do worry about it even though i have absolutely no fucking reason to it's truly preposterous but i'm here to let you know i have my concerns i mean that's why a fucking so many fucking people outside of hollywood will criticize people in hollywood for downing out of touch yeah well it's like what's that quote where it's like people still live paycheck to paycheck the paychecks just get bigger i mean it's true the more you make the more you spend and who we have no idea what they spend their money on so maybe they are fucking broke i don't know like well we do know they spent how much at the airport on pillows like six hundred dollars on pillows and blankets but they also couldn't find a fucking hotel in all of boston

i don't know someone did say someone said they were in boston at that point they're like it's true like there's a bunch of stuff going on like everything was booked that's wild okay they couldn't even drop their name and get a room. Maybe they don't want to. They found an attic. No, they found pillows and blankets in the airport. Hudson News. Hudson News.

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It was a brand deal. It was a finance company. I feel like I saw real ones. Well, when Tom and I were filming Special Forces, they were still living together. And see, that part, it just makes no sense to me because aside from obviously what happened, to get on stage and to feel that passionately and to say those things, like, how do you live together?

And again, it brings me back to the podcast with Bethany, right? Where Rachel's talking about how we didn't see a lot. It was made to seem like her and Ariana were so close. They weren't, you know, their relationship between, you know, there's a mistrust, you know, was this whole just scandal leaked on purpose for the sake of,

you know, their benefit? Again, I hear you. I wouldn't be living with somebody after that. I hear you. However, again, if you are someone who's listening, who's maybe been affected by infidelity, I'm imagining their response might be like, like this for like to, to Rachel would be like, Hey, maybe you have no idea what it takes to be in a nine to 10 year relationship. But like relationships are very hard and there's ups and downs and there's like, not just good months and bad months, but maybe we sometimes have a bad year and you work through it.

You don't just like fuck someone else. And who knows? That is different. But like people have all sorts of kinds of relationships. And there are times when people in committed relationships are living separate lives and aren't aren't feeling connected and maybe have to work through things. But that doesn't make it OK to. But they're both in full new relationships no no i'm just saying the way rachel said it as if like hey and they're living like she said it to try to

basically downplay the seriousness of ariana and tom's connection their relationship how important was it was how meaningful it was and yeah is it weird that they're still living together sure yeah and we can sit there and speculate and fuck maybe everything rachel is saying is true but i'm just saying she lost her credibility in terms of coming on for the first time and starting throwing punches their way i think for a lot of people i don't disagree with that by any means i guess my my thought now is you know i i would probably have the same type of visceral reaction that that ariana had you know obviously something to this magnitude but how do you go you know no part of ariana made it seem like she was interested in working things out at any point in her lifetime with tom right it is odd sure that

she is like i can't look at him right but she can live with you but interest rates are like 7% right now people are not trying to buy houses I think it's exactly a money thing I think that's all that it is I've seen that with Tom and Katie though they sold their house now they're both in apartments she doesn't have to go and buy a house and I know

Rachel said oh I let Tom have keys in my apartment but maybe Tom maybe stubborn Tom doesn't want to leave and it's like come say hi what yeah but like you know maybe he's just like no I don't want to let Ariana win I don't want to leave my house and sleep in an apartment I don't know their reasoning I'm just go back to like it's just Rachel didn't do herself any favors trying to like throw grenades at Tom and Ariana. And Bethany definitely didn't do Rachel any favors by making it all about Bethany's cause.

Yeah. I guess it's just a way to include Tom in season 11. If nobody wants to talk to him, you're like, well, you're still in a house with him. But I saw them filming at sir. And they all walked in together.

Ariana wasn't engaging with him, but he was right behind her. Oh, no way. Clearly she's letting him in close proximity proximity whether or not she's actually engaging you can only stay mad for so long it just takes so much energy and eventually like yeah sheena will come around and lala will talk never come around no she will like i don't know i saw paparazzi photos of her hugging sandoval lala what yeah, at the beach day. But all

you know, it was like some sort of insincere, like, yeah, whatever, fuck you, hug. But Lala doesn't do that. You think Lala is like, sure, let me give this guy a hug. No, she'd be like, fuck you. Well, she hugged him. They must be like a little kosher. Yeah, they're definitely, yeah, people can't stay mad forever.

The show must go on. Well, another show did go on go on. Well, another show. And the show did go on with Charity. Yeah, nice transition. Yeah. Yeah, she picked Dotton. I don't know. I mean, listen.

I mean, I guess if you have a boring finale, then you know what you like. That's more on the producers than it is. It's not even on Charity. You thought it was boring? The finale? I was genuinely like, I was not sure if she was going to pick Joey or Dotton.

What? Have you? Really? I think the show did an excellent job. I think Charity was an excellent bachelorette this episode. Everything about Erin being there, even when she came back for the rose ceremony, you see it every season.

And it's always like when the lead has to come back and explain their actions to the rest of the people. And it's like this. And what they really want to say is, I don't want to fucking do that. I had to do that because I'm the bachelor or I'm the bachelorette. And I don't know how to explain myself. So I'm just going to make some weird shit up and be like, this is really hard and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Like, I'm sure Charity respected the hell out of Aaron and blah, blah, blah. But like, he flew all the way out from Fiji. And then in lieu of a fantasy suite, she's like, why don't you just come over to my hotel room and we'll hang out for 10 minutes. And then she'll say some version of like, I don't. What did she say? I don't want to feel basic. She was just like, I don't want to be responsible for the expectation. I don't want what did she say? I don't want to feel basic. She was just like, I don't want to be responsible for the expectations.

I don't want to carry it. I don't want to carry the expectations. Like with regards to your, like when, in regards to his expectations, like I don't want to carry it. Yeah. She's like, I'm, I don't want to be responsible for sending you home tomorrow. But if you want to stick around for a day to validate you getting on a plane, sure. Like you want to really lock in your paradise ticket.

I hope that man got some airline miles because oh did he pay for his flight no way okay but they will uh they probably was like they probably asked him what his airline number was oh they do yeah yeah they will ask you yeah yeah so he probably did get some points if he had points to get yeah that's great yeah short flight but i i thought joey like even though it felt like dotan was the front front runner for so long she did seem so torn and at one point when Dotton gave her the locket of both of them as kids she was like I'm gonna cry and it just reminded me of the way she'd said it when she was with Aaron on their hometown dancing on the football field that was what kind of threw me off as I was like uh-oh is she like feeling bad

because she's seeing how nice someone is being and she knows she's gonna let them down Joey's very nice and he knows how to compliment and Charity likes to be complimented. And I think it was two people who really respected the hell out of each other, you know, and they really cared about each other as people. And I hope for Charity and Dotton's sake that this was all an act because I would hate to be like, you know, I have to sit down and be like, yeah, no, I was really torn. I mean, she was boohoo crying with Joey, like sobbing on his shoulder when she sent him home. Her nose was wet.

That's how you know. Everything was wet. America was like, everything was wet. Who knows? Maybe she was really torn. who knows maybe she was really torn uh but having been in that experience i think it's not that hard to allow your emotions and you're just physically and emotionally drained at that point and you do well maybe not you know and she claims that she was in love with joey i don't know i mean yeah it's always like oh i was in love with two people covered a cut to people magazine i knew from the

beginning it was always you you know like you was always you. It's a tough position that leads it in, but it's not that hard. I would find that Charity's emotions to be real because it was a highly emotional moment and she had a ton of empathy and she probably felt bad for stringing him along and she felt bad for letting him give his speech. And a lot of that emotion was guilt. I think that's a very normal feeling that the leads often feel. I don't know if that was the case, but having lived through it and talked to other people, I would imagine it's just kind of a buildup of everything, not so much like the sadness of sending home someone she's also in love with i wonder how

close it really was in her mind because i feel like she was leaning dotten for a long time right and you would think that if it was that close it seemed like her family was leaning joey but i think she in at one point she said i don't have a gut right now when her mom was like go with your gut reaction but subconsciously she did because i think despite that she knew she was yeah because her sister was like joey makes you glow and she went okay Right but that was her gut Her gut was like pissed. That's her gut and I thought it was fascinating

that her mom kind of said that she's indecisive and then that charity showed us that she has a gut but showed us that she has a hard time following it. Yeah I thought that conversation with her and her mom was amazing. And it seemed like her mom was.

It was real. Yeah. Really like reigning it in and like in service. Oh, yeah. Her mom talked to her after that episode. You talk to me like that on national TV. We have to handle that. Especially around TV.

She was like, fine. Yeah. She gave them like, fine. Well, then we won't talk. Yeah. My mom would have been like, cut the camera real quick. Yeah. Yeah, it reminds me of like day five of Thanksgiving, you know, with your family where it's like

you fully regressed to slight high school self for a moment. And then you're like, OK, I'm an adult woman and I need to get it together. Well, you guys are expecting parents. If you are in that situation where your child is really torn, doesn't know what they want to do and is looking to you for advice, do you give them any kind of insight or do you do what Charity's mom did and say, you got to make this on your own?

Oh, I thought Charity's mom played it beautifully. Yeah, I'd probably do the same. I don't know. I think it's a cop out for Charity to want her mom to give her name and it just makes it easier on her. Then that way she can be like, well, my mom influenced me to pick this person it was just kind of fascinating how much sass charity gave her mom

for not telling her to pick i think she obviously was just like desperate in that moment and she like wanted someone to give her i feel like even if she said joey she was going to pick dot and regardless though yeah so what was that what was that going to do for her i don't know i just want it validated you want it confirmed you want to like see from other people because it probably feels like in a way you're sure but it is also somewhat of a social experiment this isn't typical dating it's really not that much time so she feels like she knows what she wants to do but she's like these are people who have known me my entire life please tell me what i want to hear so that i don't feel crazy or like i'm taking a risk that's a good point it's like you don't have much to go on and even though she might like that in the best like it's still a leap of faith and it's kind of

a bummer for her parents to be like like the person you want to pick it's not going to change your mind but yeah it's probably a bummer but the same time, maybe her sister just said that one comment. Also, keep in mind, they love a distraction. So I bet if you talk to Charity and Don, they probably were like, no, it was a really nice hometown and I had a really good time. But there was just that one moment, and they obviously focused on it. I mean, I'm so happy for them. Do you guys, after seeing so many couples who seem incredibly solid, like when they come out on the couch for

the live portion and they're glowing and they're in love and like seeing those couples break up like months or even a few years later, at this point, do you feel like you have any means of even predicting if couples are going to be successful? It really comes down to the winner. I think the winner is put in such an unfair position that it requires an insane amount of maturity and level-headedness and not sweating the small stuff and just being okay and kind of allowing the lead of the winner and charity, in this case charity, to have them say a bunch of times, like, I did it for the show, which gets annoying and frustrating. And you just kind of, but it's also the truth. And Dotton strikes me as someone who's incredibly mature and level-headed and grounded. And so like, yeah, I wouldn't be shocked if those two can make it work. Just because I think it's understandable for the winner to constantly be frustrated and feel like their experience is not what they expected in

this whole experience. It doesn't feel like they won. They often get alienated by their peers and they're kind of an outsider because they won and yada yada. And then again, you have to watch this whole finale. Don's like, I just got engaged and here I am. He watches it back. And most of the episode was Charity selling her feelings about Joey. It's very difficult, you know? And so it takes a lot of like, you know what? What's done is done. And I want to focus on what's in front of me. And that's very hard for people to do.

Yeah. It's like, I just saw you say like a casual, I love you. Like Natalie, you were saying that when Charity and Joey were saying goodbye one morning. He was like, love you. Love you too. Like the way you do in a relationship that you've been in for so long. And you have to watch that and be like, cool, cool, cool.

So I put a ring on her finger. Yeah, it's tough. And even Aaron coming back, I mean, granted, it ended up being nothing. But imagine if it went any further, it would just be a lot. It's a lot for the winner to accept. However, Charity is on Dancing with the Stars.

Period. So congrats to Charity. Yeah. For all the problems that Vanessa and I had, Dancing with the Stars wasn't one of them. That's what I was just about to ask you. Do you think, like, did your relationship struggle with that or did it? I mean, again, we fought about just about everything. But to Vanessa's credit, she was remarkably

cool about dancing with the stars. Would there be a fight over the time away when you're still trying to get to know each other? Jealousy, maybe? I don't know. You're dancing with another woman. Are you talking about dancing with the stars? Yeah, dancing with the stars. Coming off of the show.

You're still trying to get to know each other but then you're immediately taken up until now dot and charity haven't spent any real time together they've basically every other week give or take they've been given this happy couple weekends which is basically you're trapped in a house for three to four days which is nice but you are like you're caged up and all you can do is really watch movies you can't go outside and even that's just kind of awkward and fucking weird but like you make the most of that and then meanwhile charity's you know probably doing all this press and traveling around the world and she's doing all these things she's constantly busy so like their whole relationship after they got engaged was like

long distance and kind of weird and so this will be their first time to just be a real couple and she's going to go right into dancing with the stars and so which is very time demanding and you know she's going to be rehearsing and yeah she's depending on don's jealousy level something tells me she will be like rubbing up against her professional dancer now usually dance with the stars will do do like charity is solid and pair her with like a married someone in a relationship but like i don't know like it doesn't mean that like she doesn't do the samba that would even i don't know she doesn't strike me as a i don't think yeah there's anything that someone

really would need to get jealous right about right that doesn't stop people from getting jealous and i don't think don will but if you ask me like what could people get jealous about like they they are doing the samba you know and shit like that so are we with ariana she will be with ariana every plate all you busy people out there on the go from your home to your work to your friends and you're tired of eating out but you don't have time to go grocery shopping or go to the grocery store and not even that the worst part is thinking about every day what do i make what should i make i don't know i want to eat something healthy i don't know what to make. Well, every plate is there to save the day because every plate will send you fresh ingredients to your doorstep with great tasting recipes that are easy to make in just a few

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It's just a lot of people I've never seen before. And then including someone who can't poop. Yeah. When they showed the fucking turtle. Yeah. The turtle crowning was insane. That was a bad, a bad visual. Why would they do that? The turtle crowning was insane. That was a bad visual. Why would they do that?

That editor... I'm telling you, whoever the cameramen are that are assigned specifically to the animals need a raise. They always find the best clips of animals. I don't know how. I'll tell you how. Set up out there. On their free time, there's a bunch of animals around and they'll just like... Nick, I'm telling you, I mean, we see...

Take 20 minutes of B-roll. We see crabs, snakes. There's a lot of people I didn't recognize. And maybe, I don't know. Like, is that just because, am I the only one there? Did you recognize a lot of people? I was a lot of strangers. I recognized the bachelorettes that came down.

Speaking of, is Rachel, are Rachel and Brayden a thing? I don't know. I don't know. Rachel is on this season. The other Bachelorettes were just there for a cameo. No, I know, but they were sitting next to each other on this show. Who, Rachel and Brayden?

Rachel and Brayden, and then they were like- Yeah, which means there's no shot that they were a thing. Yeah, which means probably not. Yeah, they wouldn't show them together. Whoa, period. Yeah. Or they would do it, like, you know, and I would be like, but you'd think I wouldn't take the class that you think of it. I don't think Yeah. Or they would do it, like, you know, it'd be like,

but you'd think I wouldn't take the class that you think of it. I don't think they put that much thought into it. But I'll tell you what, I suspect that Aaron, our boy Aaron,

might be in a relationship. And the reason why is because it was like, hey, Aaron, are you heartbroken over Charity? All right, well, he's going to paradise,

everybody. Like, usually the person who's like top three at AFR, they will milk and be like, are you still in love? But they don't want any of that talk because Aaron might be in a relationship literally right now.

Isn't that really fast though? He flew to Fiji. Yeah, what is that turnaround time? He flew to Fiji and then literally got on a plane He flew to Fiji And then literally Got on a plane And flew to Mexico This is probably This similar timeline To ours

So because Obviously he's filming While other things Are airing still I think from the The wrapping up Of our filming To when they were

Flying people out to paradise Was maybe Three weeks It was a quick turn around Joey needs I know Joey got a haircut But that part's gotta go He's got a haircut

Of an oompa loompa I think he pulls it off I think he looks good And I think he pulls a haircut, but that part's got to go. He's got a haircut of an Oompa Loompa. I think he pulls it off. I think he looks good, and I think he pulls it off. When it's short and tapered, I think he pulls it off. You think that's his best haircut? I mean, I don't know what his other options are. I haven't seen his Rolodex yet, but I like the way that that looks on him. I guess if it wasn't parted on the side and it was just all up.

He can pull off the short and the flow. It would kind of be like a Matthew McConaughey. That's not nice. Matthew McConaughey, I could see that. Because they got similar hairstyles where it's like curly. Matthew McConaughey parts it back. I know. I'm saying that could potentially look good. We could just encourage a different part.

I feel like you probably have very strong opinions on this as a man with curly hair. It's just not the best look. He's got a great head of hair. That's crazy. And that's what I mean. Nice for me. It's the curls at the bottom. It's the curls.

It's the curls at the bottom. It looks like, you know. Do me any favor. Stand next to Dotton. I do feel like Twitter seems to be incredibly excited about Joey. And I feel like they did a great job. It was good propaganda. I was like, Joey's a little dreamboat.

I feel like he's going to be one of the more kind of excitable of America bachelors that we've seen in a while. I wasn't excited about him until seeing him at AFR. And now I'm excited about him. Yeah. Also, his little moment where he's teary after the proposal and she's like, you're going to find someone.

He's like, I'm hopeful for that, too. I was like, oh, baby boy. Yeah. I just think that you just fed that line. Well, but I do think it worked on me. Oh, the like the moment of the butt is such a best. Just as I disagree. Hey, listen, pal, it's not you.

Get ready for your moment. We're gonna help you out. Just think about the future, you know? Just be hopeful, you know? Hey, even if it doesn't work out. Be hopeful. You see? Be hopeful. You know what I'm saying? It's possible. I do feel like the best advice you can give is, like, comfort the Bachelorette.

Because it was so sweet how much he was, like, not holding it against her.te because it was so sweet how much he was like not holding it against her like i feel like you could tell he like wasn't processing in that moment he was just like trying to make charity feel okay like as least shitty as she could feel i didn't see true heartbreak and that's fine we reward a guy who's like allegedly heartbroken who acts like he's it's not that big of a deal. But he said he blacked out. I can like

understand. Yeah, but even if he blacked out, I think if you're about to get down on a knee. His eyes were wet a little bit.

To me, that's just he really respected Charity and he knew deep down that she was going to pick Dotton and he went through the motions. I did find it

really cute when Dotton met Neil Lane because as we've discovered Dotton didn't even know the proposal was part of this show. I think he's very out of the loop of what this show is. And Neil Lane going, hi, I'm Neil Lane. And him introducing himself with his full name as well. And I was like, no, no, this is just an advertisement. Like, we don't need to exchange all of our contact information. Dotton is, I love Dotton.

He is, he truly seems like a one of a kind. I'm a huge Dotton fan. I'm thinking about his grandma right now. I'm thinking about his grandma and how happy. Yeah, and how his parents flew back from Nigeria. Yeah, that was dope. Dotton, he just articulated his emotions so well.

He really clearly spoke. He was willing to go deep and really give you thoughtful answers i got nothing against joey seems like a really sweet and nice guy but he's just like every other nice guy who like and again maybe joey's a great guy but so many not great people and i'm not suggesting joey's not one of them because i've only heard wonderful things about joey but there are so many people who just like come across as nice on the show and they're fucking maniacs in real life joey is very he is he media trained

he's like very good with his words he's very well spoken this is obviously like country club women teaching them tennis he's got it i'm just i'm just reminded of joey's uncle who literally told us america that joey like is a people pleaser and he has a hard time being his most authentic self and i want to see that authentic self that his his uncle knows so well and you think he's got a mean streak i'm sure he's a great guy i just i i i liked dotten's authenticity yeah you know i mean dotten from literally like week two i think when joey was like i can be a lot to date as we all can. But I was like,

well, what do you mean by that? Joey? Joey's so to your point, Natalie, like polished and he's polished. Always gives me the, uh,

mixed there. Well, maybe him being the bachelor will open him up a little bit. I'm sure he'll be fine. What did you think of the live portion? Leah, the person we will be seeing, and the envelope? That was the dumbest.

Is it an immunity idol? What is this show? It's not a date card. It's not a date card. Am I looking into him emphasizing abs? And she had the appropriate response, like, well, I don't want it anymore. Yeah, he did emphasize

abs. Absolutely. Help you. It was definitely not worth our time. But I kind of just feel bad for Blondie in the audience. Imagine it's like... The life coach? As the first life coach I ever felt bad for.

You have a 50% chance of getting on the show and then you have to watch this other girl win and go up on the stage. I'm like, ouch. Why can't they both come? Yeah. Also, the tension in the room when she, like everyone was like rooting for her. It's like, Oh,

she's on live TV. And she's like, I'm a consultant. And now I'm a life coach. And everyone was like, oh, palpable silence. I was like,

Oh no. It was our last, last life coach. Was it Carl? Oh God. No, he was, I think he was a motivational speaker.

Very different. By day, life coach by night. Didn't we have a life coach, Les? We did because we were using the Carl comparison of, wow, so much better than Carl. Yeah, they impressed almost. Because we pulled up Carl's website back in the day and his prices were through the roof. He didn't ever offer you a session?

I was never offered coaching. Wow. What is your love life like, Justin? A lot of fifth wheeling. Justin is looking for a girlfriend. As of late, I am. Pitch us. Are you really? Because some might say, how could such a great looking, nice, available, tall, handsome,

I don't know how much money you make, but you dress well. Period. Thanks, Nick. How could you possibly be single unless you want to be? Because you want to fuck around. Because you seem like the top 1% of 1%. Because that's probably the nicest thing I've ever heard you want to fuck around because like you seem like the top one percent of one percent because that's really that's probably a nice thing i've ever heard you say to me thank you that's a nick compliment right there that was that seemed like yeah i don't you we don't get

this no i'm gonna need that clip no no because i don't these are rare we don't get a dime a dozen listen i don't throw out insincere compliments yeah Yeah, that's why I'm like, whoa. My eye's about to wet up. Hold up now. But it is very hard for me to fake interest. And I am very picky when it comes to dating someone seriously. Like, I wouldn't be surprised if the next person that I genuinely seriously date is somebody that I marry. Because I'm at a point now where I just don't have it in me. don't have the energy or interest in like going on a couple days like this is fine you know like yeah

we can be boyfriend like I am not just saying like I have friends currently who are in relationships and then they talk to me like yeah this isn't the one though I'm like what are you doing then yeah we're avoiding the inevitable that is weird and it's just like you're wasting your time their time and the further you progress that relationship is only going to hurt this other person who has no idea that they're about to be blindsided and i just that's just not me and so i mean couple that with moving to la maybe i'm looking in the wrong places but it has been a little bit more difficult to find sincerity out here what's the quality that you would say not necessarily the most important quality but the quality where you'd say you're the most kind of like fine tooth comb of like finding people who really embody it, like kind of the most like rigorously examine a person.

Yeah. Where it's like a lot of people maybe fall short or like aren't quite what you're looking for in that one specific area. Yeah, I think. And I know like I know I can be very complicated and I know that, I know that, right? So I think it's someone who is kind of like that introverted, extroverted, extroverted person like me. And that can kind of be social, but also like, I always say like an X factor to me and it

might sound stupid, but like, I need to be able to be in the same room with somebody and there'd be dead silence and it's not an issue. Like we're comfortable, we're're fine because i've been in relationships where it's like that's just my nature like i can be up here and social whatever but i can also literally be in a car in a room not say a single word and it's like what's wrong with you why are you mad it's like i'm not i'm good it's like well why are you like this is my personality like you know and that is kind of rare like just having that comfort and that like it doesn't need to be spoken type of understanding of each other is kind of hard to come by. Cause

I've dated people where it's like, they're here all the time and it's like, I need to chill. Or there's like, they're way too low and monotone. It's like, I need that banter as well. So finding somebody with that balance and understanding. For the women who've had the pleasure of dating you, if I were to meet the last 10 women you've dated. 10? Damn. It hasn't been that many damn it hasn't been around it hasn't been that you went on a date with what would be a common critique you think you would

receive that i am hard to read what i feel like you're famously the most reactive person to ever i think it's very obvious when i'm interested and not interested yeah that's just like that's when a guy is quiet and not interested and not talking and that's when the girl goes we're so hard to read and he's just like really i feel like i probably said that to you well that's when i was pretending not to like you right my favorite past time what a time that was well i was in fact like not a letting you read me yeah yeah see i and i don't think i i don't do that intentionally but it's just like like i think i have a tendency or like and i like it's weird to say these things about myself so i'm just going off of like what i've been told i think that when i go on a date with somebody

like i've had very few awkward dates because I'll like take over. If it's awkward, like I'll talk to a brick wall and I can find something to talk about to take that awkwardness away from us. And so I think- But then you get accused of talking too much

or talking all about yourself? No, it's just- Well, not about myself, just like- It's when a date switches from a date to an Uber ride. Yeah. Where you're like, I know I'm going to be in this situation. I'm going to be nice.

I'm going to get to know you. We're going to have a good time. Because if I don't, then this'm going to be in this situation I'm going to be nice I'm going to get to know you we're going to have a good time because if I don't then this is going to be and we got three quarters of our drink left like so it's like she's sipping slow is that because she's nervous or she doesn't like you I don't know but after

in that exact instance right it's like wow like I feel really comfortable around you and it's like I'm not that interested but like I'm just are we not on the same page i feel like you say that after all of your dates i do because i'm like i went on that one happy hour and i was like all we talked about was fucking restaurants and i felt so bad because he's so passionate about restaurants i took down lists for restaurants in atlanta i've never been there i don't have a job so all the people who call up and be like i had this really great first date

we talked all the time are you telling me that they could have been on a date with you and not realize that you were just being nice or someone like justin um perhaps but then i don't mean it's actually justin and that's why 10 last women that you dated has got to be one of the girls that call in so because you fuck them up well we have a caller right here I gotta go we all talked when I went to the bathroom what's going on here I don't know but I think

I really and I actually love your advice since you two are so happy and a great couple and obviously growing family like you guys are doing it like i feel like i don't want to take things off of my proverbial list right but like at a certain point like all right something's got to give what's on your list uh i don't think it's that much let's hear the list Yeah, that's crazy, right? She makes six figures. Not intellect.

That's crazy. But just like the way, the like conviction that came with it. It wasn't hesitant. It's from Heat. Yes, thank you. It's from Heat. Okay, he's running a movie. Oh my God.

Big ass! I don't know. Derek. It's a very famous movie. Thank you, Derek. Thanks for the save. It's from critically acclaimed Michael Mann film, Heat. Don't worry.

Thank you. Okay, what's on the list? Walk us through it. In no particular order. Intellect. Selflessness is huge for me. Down to earth. Spontaneity.

Obviously physical attraction. Like banter. What do you want in common with your love? What do you want to enjoy doing with her? Spontaneity is huge. I do not like to be in a routine where it's like... You can date us. I mean, here's the thing.

I don't mean like every day we gotta go ziplining. You know what I mean? No routine where it's like you can date us I mean here's the thing like I don't mean like every day we gotta go zip lining you know what I mean like no but it's like it's just like like I may be over general like the little things right like some of my favorite times in relationships are like we're okay we made dinner we're sitting watching a movie and it's like I'm gonna go get ice cream down like just random like

you know what I mean like fun stuff like I love stuff like that. I don't know. It sounds like you're describing Susie. We do get frozen yogurt at the drop of a dime, but that's a dear friend of mine. Andrew already, you had Andrew on here?

Yeah, they're just friends. But we can't be too. He made it seem like maybe he was stepping aside. I was trying to do my friend a solid and just take the back seat. How many people are in the back seat right now? Both of y'all are trying to pull each other out. I'm observing from afar. We make a lot of videos together.

That sounded insane. That sounded insane. Coming soon. That sounded insane. Vile files plus. Vile files plus. I meant like for ads and like like

for sure is Vile Viles Plus audio only I just want to hear it it's an mp3 of Justin and Susie oh my god just kidding Susie we love you we love you okay so you want to have spontaneity.

Maybe in the form of filmmaking. That's nuts. That is nuts. Okay, you want to make a quick vid? I'll take off my clothes. Hey. What do you think? I'm down.

Down. Spontaneity. That's the kind of love I need. My thing about spontaneity, though, is I think everybody's pretty spontaneous when you're dating. I feel like I know exactly what you mean. No, no, no. There's some boring, bland people. You've dated a girl when y'all are watching TV and you've been like, want to go get ice cream?

And she's like, no. Let's just stay in. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. But how was her ass? Not fat. Not fat enough for me to stay. Too striking. Not fat enough for me to stay. Two strikes.

You're out, bitch. Not fat enough for me to stay. No fat ass anywhere. I want to get ice cream. Do you guys have anybody in mind for me? No. You know. Yeah, I said all those nice things, but you are undateable.

You're the 1% of the 1%. 1% of 1%, but I would never set you up with one of my friends. I don't like setting people up in general, and I hate setting up... Guys hate being set up in general, and I don't like setting up my guy friends, especially someone like yourself. And I mean this sincerely. It's like, you are,

at least on paper, a great fucking catch, and it would just be hard for someone not to just even think they're falling in love with you. So I just would hate to... Set someone up, and then we're in the blame because they fell in love with you. Why I just would hate to like- Set someone up and then we're in the blame because they fell in love and you are- Why are you trying to call me back?

I don't fucking know. And maybe you can offer some advice how to be more straightforward, but I will say that anyone that I go on a date with, whatever, before there's like, I try to be as clear as possible with how I'm feeling, where I'm at. Yeah.

Do you still have sex with them? Huh? Whoa. Sex? What's that? I've never heard of it. Yeah. Do you still have sex with them? Huh? Whoa. Sex? What's that? I've never heard of it. Huh? Could you explain what that?

Did y'all hear something? Huh? I think my head goes up. I was just talking about after the second date. About being up front. What that next conversation is. After the second date? No, I am not that easy.

Ah! Period. Okay! Gotta give me some ice cream first. You better work for it. Gotta give me a scoop of cookies and cream first maybe this doesn't have anything to do with you but like how upfront can you be

about like not being serious if you're gonna have sex I don't think the two have to be mutually exclusive no but shit I tried that move with Natalie but she fell in love you know you know please but in all seriousness like yeah I tried that move with Natalie, but she fell in love. You know what I'm saying? You know. Please.

But no. I'm just saying, like, but in all seriousness, like, yeah, in hookup culture, we like to have sex and take off our clothes and everyone's fucking. But, like, it is hard to convince someone that you can't be like, hey, I'm not looking for anything serious right now. And then have a great date and carry the conversation. And then, like, well, I guess we're good.

So I think it's, it's confusing. No, it could be the opposite order, right? So like if some, if you go on a date with somebody, the feeling is mutual and you both are at,

like I'm the same, like I, as much as you, you may not believe it, Nick, I never impose anything physical. Like that isn't, like I have no expectation.

Like I, I can have a great date I believe like I don't care is like just running into like as much sex as it can handle I don't think you're trying damn through my soliloquy

it's like I'm not even trying to have sex I believe it no he's saying that he doesn't it's never like a it's never like oh well we had sex because you want like no like it it was like i could not care less i've actually been in situations where like literally not sex isn't that important it's not my priority it's not that what he goes into the date looking for is sex yeah and i think does it happen no sometimes there have been like we've gone

I've gone on a date come back over watch the movie I'm getting tired I've had people leave and be like why'd you have me come back if we

weren't gonna do anything like whoa I thought we were having a good time you know and it's just like so if it does get to a physical point it was by all

means a mutual decision right and I think that the conversation of what are we now can happen after that I don't think it always has to come before physical intimacy doesn't have to yeah no it doesn't have to just complicate things we've learned on the show you pointed me we the household

we talked to a lot of people take this off and we talked to a lot of people where the uh those conversations would have served them well prior. Well, I think that it's like a self-awareness thing. And I think it's just hard because I think people feel like the right answer is to be like, no, it's fine. I'm chill. Like, I just want to explore. The chill girl epidemic. Yeah. Cool girl. So are you suggesting that it should be like a, hey, hey, hey,

whoa, whoa, whoa, before you do that, I don't see anything serious here. Like, what do you mean? Like, is that what I should be doing? Like, if I'm the type of person, which I'm telling you, like, I don't care. serious here like what do you mean like is that what i should be doing like if i'm the type of person which i'm telling you like i physically i don't care like i'm chilling whatever and let's say that she you meet someone yes and she would like to take it there should i be like even if i'm not sure like hey i'm not sure where we're going with this i'm not sure just heads up i i think in general if someone gives you the impression that they might be interested in you and you have to explain how your feelings might not match theirs and try to reset expectations, then I think it's a bit selfish to have sex with them.

I've been on the other side where afterwards I was very much so interested. Never heard from them again. Yeah. Sometimes you don't know until after I think their fuckboys are on both sides of the aisle and that's also true most of the time you don't know

until after how do you really know you know especially if you only especially if that's after two dates yeah I think the biggest thing people used to date for forever and get to know each other I think the biggest thing, the biggest hurdle- People used to date for forever and get to know each other.

I think the biggest hurdle for me lately has been, I cannot do long distance and there have been people that I've very much so been interested in, but not geographically- They're flying all the time, man. Right, but that doesn't mean that I, I want to kick it on a Wednesday.

Like this rainstorm we had, I would have loved to have a little knuckle in there. Okay. man right but like that doesn't mean that i like i want to kick it on a wednesday like this rainstorm we had i would have loved to have a little knuckle in there but i'm like sitting there pillow's gonna have to do like i'm very much so an in-person quality time you know like sunday let's go to melrose post and do cool stuff like that well i mean you're still well that melrose trading post happens every single sunday so you could fly someone out every single sunday every single sunday melrose trading post i also think that people like that you i don't know like being from like the east coast like i feel like i tend to get along really well with people from the east coast like northeast or like midwest kind of thing and i found that like the people in la that i like vibe with the most are like people from new

england or people like my boyfriend's from st louis who like ended up here where it's like i get along with the people who are from the same place as me who also ended up in california more so than i just get around like along with the general like population back there so i think even though it's like harder to meet i think we're there baltimore we're there we're there so are you are you looking for when you go on is that like a question where are you from you know like does that matter to you it does yeah does it matter yeah yeah okay because I and again I'm not not

to rule anything out because I could meet somebody tomorrow from Minnesota who I just have not met anyone that I felt that deeply about that I'm like okay I'm willing to get over the distance thing I haven't met anyone that you should try this out has been worth it there for me. Not to say that I couldn't meet somebody.

How old are you again? 29. Damn. Sorry. I'm sorry. That's crazy. I'm sorry. That's so crazy.

No, I meant. No. Damn. Damn. 29. It is hot in here. Do we have anything left to talk about the bachelor finale why we're all gathered here today well now that's gonna be on thursdays oh yeah oh right how do we feel about the area in paradise on thursday people gonna sit through three hours

every they can't there's no way that's a full-time job. That's a lot of Bachelor. I also think- We will still, for anyone who is interested, our reality recaps will still be on Tuesdays. So we'll watch Paradise on Thursdays, and you'll wait till Tuesday for us to talk about it. I think it's so funny. Obviously, we haven't seen the season of Golden Bachelor, but you go through an hour of wholesomeness. It's like, all right. Which one's first? Is Gary first? Gary first, then Paradise.

Yeah. And when does that start? Did they give us a- Premiere's on my birthday. September 28th. Are you planning anything for Nick's birthday? I asked him. So I threw him a big party last year because he wrote a book and turned a year older.

So that was like, no, no, no. That was the theme. No book, no party. That was the theme was like, Nick wrote a book and turned a year older. So that was like, no, no, no. That was the theme. No book, no party. That was the theme was like Nick wrote a book and turned a year older. But this year. Nick's going to be a dad. Nick, that too.

He's going to be a husband. Also that. So this should be an even bigger party. Yeah, because the show comes out three days before. The show comes out on the 25th, Special Forces. So it's like Nick's on a show and turned a year older. So what you're saying is you've got something

extravagant planned. No, I don't. I don't have anything planned. He's honestly not a very big birthday person. The first year we were together, I didn't live here and he just like-

Had Chinese food with Ashley and Jared. With Ashley and Jared. The second year we were in New York and I planned a birthday dinner and drinks on a yacht that was nice

podcast is doing extremely well wow actually put it in my pocket how did you buy a yacht oh I didn't buy one you like go on and have drinks on it my friend likes to buy it oh that's right

love her shout out Julia and then this third year was the party so I don't know what we'll do Oh, that's right. Yeah. Love her. Shout out, Julia. And then this third year was the party. So I don't know what we'll do for that. If you guys don't have any plans, you want to go to Din Tai Fung or something? Fuck yeah. I'd probably go to Din Tai Fung with you on my birthday. Oh my God.

Can you rent out Din Tai Fung? Maybe just like a table. I'll get like reserved maybe a table. No reservations. I'll get there early. No reservations at Din Tai Fung. I'll get there early. Pull up the table for eight

my birthday's before next so if you want to ask him if he has anything planned for me you can when's yours? August 31st soon

we'll be in New York I took her to New York the week after that'll be fun yeah is New York where you guys like relived all the first dates but

New York is where we met in person so that's always like our little rendezvous. Iconic. Iconic. Do we have anything else to talk about when it comes to the charity season? I mean,

other than like charities, follow your gut. Girl. Congrats to the happy couple. Congrats. Good luck on Dancing with the Stars. Yes. Yeah. Thriving. I think Joey is really going to get the hype. I think people are going to be like, really, really excited. And maybe

it will all fall to pieces, but I have hope that this will revitalize the franchise a little bit. I don't know if enough people watched. He seems nice. Yeah. Ben Higgins vibe. He does have some Ben Higgins. Joey? Yeah. I think he has Ben Higgins vibes.

He has more Jason Tardik vibes. That's her gold star of approval. No, it's I- She's's ben higgins which is more jason tardy that's her like gold star of approval no it's like ben higgins like i think i would embarrass him like i think he would make me embarrassed of my sense of humor and that's not a knock on him but i think i would feel like i was too much with him i've actually reflected a lot since i started this job not your type anymore no i still think he's a cutie pie but sorry oh my gosh justin you're making her feel like she's too much take it back

i have a boyfriend i'm happy it's all good I still think he's a cutie pie. He is. But fuck him. But fuck him. But not for me. For someone else. For Jess. For Jess Clark. All right. Well, I think it's time to wrap it up.

What a season, Charity Dotton. Congratulations on your love. I hope it lasts forever. Good luck on Dancing with the Stars. We hope it goes swell and Justin thank you for joining us where can the people find you? what?

6, 7, 8 not on Hinge oh yeah it's just at Justin Glaze for my Instagram there you go at Justin underscore Glaze

for my TikTok a little bit more spicy there we go if he wants more spice he's making videos if you want the video if you want to see him in Suzy we'll be here on Thursday with friend of the show,

Teddy Mellencamp. I'm sure we'll be talking lots of Bravo. Probably get into Bethany with Teddy. What other pop culture topics are we going to be talking about with Teddy possibly? Britney Spears divorce. Oh, Britney Spears divorce. Yeah, for sure.

We have Jack Antonoff's wedding to unpack. And the Taylor Swift lookalike who's now hiring fake security guards to pretend to look like Taylor. All right. Well, on that note, we'll be back on Thursday. Lots to get into. Don't miss it. Bye. Bye. you