The Viall Files - E630 Ask Nick Updates Special Episode - Part 11

Episode Date: August 25, 2023

Welcome back to The Viall Files! Today we have another special “where are they now” update show where we give you updates from our past callers to see what’s happened in their situations and relationships since appearing on the show.  We bring on our first caller whose boyfriend was faking his orgasms. We encouraged her to initiate a conversation surrounding sex, and find out if her towels are still bone dry, or if he was able to confront the issue. Our second caller was wondering whether she should shoot her shot with someone who ghosted her two years ago. She was going to be in his area, and we urged her to reach out just to see. We see what his response was, or if he ghosted yet again. Our third caller had originally called in regarding a text requesting a “romantic tryst” with her, but has since started to date women and exhibit some toxic dating habits. She calls in this time after reconnecting with her ex and realizing she may be addicted to drama.  We also have some written updates - Our caller whose boyfriend had an ex wife from hell, our caller who was turned off by her partner’s lack of ambition, and our caller who was debating firing the bridesmaid that cheated on her brother. To catch up on all of these callers original questions please see the show numbers:   Original Episode numbers for callers: Episode Number: 605 Ask Nick - My Boyfriend Fakes His Org*sms Episode Number 616 Going Deeper with Jojo Siwa - Growing Up Famous, Pet Peeves, and Shooting Your Shot Episode Number 575 Ask Nick Updates Special Episode - Part 7 (First appeared on Episode Number 545 Francesca Farago - Likable Villain Gone Bad)  Original Episode numbers for written updates: Episode Number: 598 Ask Nick - His Ex Wife Filed a Restraining Order Against Me Episode Number: 598 Ask Nick - His Ex Wife Filed a Restraining Order Against Me Episode Number: 610 Going Deeper with Scott Evans - The Barbie Movie, Childhoods, and Nick’s Lake House Update “People are very attracted to someone who can demonstrate self control.”  Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://www.viallfiles.supportingcast.fm  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  Join us for our new LIVE show on Thursdays at 9PM ET/6PM PT on Amp, available in the Apple app store. Android User? Listen here: https://www.onamp.com/  To Order Nick’s Book Go To: http://www.viallfiles.com  To advertise on the show, contact [e-mail] or visit https://www.advertisecast.com/TheViallFiles  Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @alison.vandam @liffordthebigreddog @dereklanerussell @genevievegoodman

you're crazy what's going on everybody welcome back to another episode of the vile files update special edition we know how much you love them, so we're here giving you all the updates you've been desiring and truly all the updates that you have been desiring. Now, I know some of you haven't heard all the updates because we drop a lot behind Vile Files Plus, but they are there waiting for you to sign up for Vile Files Plus. It is free to sign up.

So we know how much you guys love these updates because you guys listen to the crap out of them. They crush. So, so many of you are missing out on what is now, I think we have 12-ish, 12 update specials behind Vile Files Plus. You got some rent updates, you got some callers. You're truly missing out if you have not signed up for Vile Files Plus, just with the updates alone. They're juicy. They're the juiciest go to vile files.com there's a tab right there it's free to sign up you get a seven-day free trial what more can i say other than get your updates now people all right well before we get to our callers what do we got do we have do we have a written yes we do sure do from our caller samantha who was originally featured on episode five hundred and ninety eight.

And her original question was, do I stay with the guy who treats me so great? But his ex-wife has made my life hell. Oh, I remember her. Yeah. They had a son together. There were a lot of restraining orders. Yeah, there was legalities involved of whether the son could be over there. She was kind of doing a bit of brainwashing saying

that this new woman samantha was not safe to be around the child as such then her yeah her boyfriend couldn't see his kid really toxic because i kind of remember wondering if like who was the problem yeah at the time yeah and it did seem like it just seemed like a lot we were getting some stories where i felt like we maybe were not getting all of the the details per se and it was one of those things where it was it felt very early for all of this to be popping up. And it was one of those things of let's consider the full picture. Even if you are very much in love with him, this is a lot to be dealing with early on in a relationship and doesn't necessarily have to be a part of a relationship if you don't want to be with him. What's the update?

Here it is. Update dot dot dot. Not a whole lot has changed. Since the incident, he has not been able to see his son for two months till court was caught up. Since that, he has refused to see his dad, the son, because his mother is brainwashing him to believe I am a horrible person. My boyfriend has not messaged his ex back at all,

so she decided, drumroll please, to write a fake text acting as if it is someone who knows me well. She started off by texting my boyfriend to tell him that she received a few nice phone calls from a guy and a long text stating, quote, I saw you got it too, but our son will not be safe around that. He did not answer. Safe around what? I'm guessing her. He did not answer and she found what I'm guessing her. He did not answer and she never sent the message she received. Oh, so she was saying that she had a message from

someone else. Instead, the next day she decided to send it to my boyfriend's dad. It's a long message from my partner in crime, basically stating that I'm controlling and getting exactly what I want. How I knew it was her right away because she always uses the same punctuation errors in everything she writes. I also found an email she sent to my boyfriend a while back about me. So she's saying,

I want to make sure if I'm confused, everyone else is confused. And I think this woman is behaving in deeply confusing ways. As I understand it, it seems like, so we have, we'll call her ex-wife from hell is texting both her ex-husband and then her ex-husband's father pretending to be a close friend of new girlfriend and saying she's bad. She's alleging that ex-wife is writing letters to her boyfriend's dad. Claiming to be her partner in crime, her friend,

who knows her very well and doesn't want the boy to be around her. And she says she's knowing that it's her because she uses the same punctuation. She's seen the letter. She's held the letter. Looks like it was a text. Oh, the text. The dad forwarded it or something.

Yeah, and I knew it was her because she always uses the same punctuation errors in everything she writes. And then she also found an email saying similar things. She showed that to their son and he believes it all. So she wrote it and then showed it to the son saying it was from someone else. This is a twisted situation. All right. So that's how that's now it makes sense of why the son doesn't really want to be around her. And that would be the quote unquote brain

washing that she mentioned at the beginning of the email. Anyway, I'm just going to continue to support my boyfriend. I have kind of given myself a deadline in my head that if things don't take a turn for the better, I am not sure how long I can stick around. And side note, she moved to a new house without telling my boyfriend of the move of the child. And also, he just found out yesterday that she used his credit card for $6,000 on furniture for the new house. He asked his son about it, and she decided to text him multiple times, implying that he said yes to it and I must have found out. And that's why he canceled the card, clearly feeling guilty that she was still sending him texts about it at 4 a.m. A lot.

Evacuate. Please evacuate. But I don't remember talking to her and her being like, besides this, we have the greatest relationship of all time. I don't remember that. I feel like it's also hard to know what your relationship is even like because when you have these, this is batshit.

This is dramatic. This is so crazy. I mean, you constantly have this like, like out of a movie villain who is uniting you and your new boyfriend through all the madness. Like I'm sure it's really bonding for them. And so that must be very confusing in terms of how she even sees the relationship.

I don't think she's gotten to, like, get over. Oh, totally. It's like the enemy of my enemy is my friend. They have this this like communal fight. They're doing this together. They're trying to fight for the relationship. It makes it seem so much more worthwhile. And I feel like they've never fully gotten out of, like, the honeymoon phase, like bubble

totally bursting. I mean, he's not hanging out with her, his son, according to her. I need to talk to him. Yeah. I need his side of the story.

And it's not that I don't believe our writer, caller, flash caller. It's just that who knows what she's being told. Right. She has a limited perspective. And like, it seems like the guy who has the most perspective on all the people is the man what if he's in on it i don't mean like i would maybe he did give her

the money i don't know i don't know but it's just like what about this that's what i'd want to know what about this relationship and it's not fair that he has an ex-wife from hell so to speak but he does and i'm just wondering what about this relationship is she receiving that makes up for all this other bullshit yeah it kind of reminds me of like the all my exes are crazy type of thing where it's like you can sure you can have a relationship where it ends really poorly but like also like it's two people having a relationship that fell apart what are the steps that got to be so elevated so high that it's literally like walking into this it's like a full tornado it's just emotion yeah but again back to my other point too it's just like maybe it's just an unfair situation maybe she is this crazy you It's possible. Some people actually have crazy exes.

And if she is doing half of this shit, she's batshit. But I just want to know from her, what about this relationship? Because it's been a while since we talked to her. I just don't remember her being the greatest relationship I've ever had. I feel seen and heard. We communicate. We have so much fun. And I don't remember that.

I could be wrong. And I want to know, she said communicate. We have so much fun. And like, I don't remember that. I could be wrong, but I just feel and I want to know. She said ultimately she's given herself a deadline for what? I've kind of given myself a deadline in my head that if things don't take a turn for the better, I'm not sure how long I can stick around. So the deadline seems to be undefined. Yeah. Well, that's what I'm saying. That's undefined. And it ain't getting better. He hasn't seen his son in two months. Yeah. She's what I'm saying. That's undefined. And it ain't getting better.

He hasn't seen his son in two months. Yeah. She's charging the credit card. And I feel like in her brain, I'm sure there's some element of like, I don't want this crazy person to win. And it's like at a certain point, you have to say like, is winning enduring constant hell just to try to prove a point from someone who is clearly so devoid of like perspective in the situation and like does not view you as a human, like views you as like

a horrible cartoonish like villain bitch and is trying everything she can to ruin your life. Like, is it really worth engaging with that just to try to prove a point from someone who will never understand it? Like this is not the wife is not someone who is showing any kind of like self-reflection or self-awareness. No. So it is like there is no scenario in which this woman is like, oh, you know what? They stuck it out. And now I see that like I was in too deep.

Like it's always going to be excuses. It's always going to be blaming. And like, it seems like she's deeply in pain because of the way this marriage ended. I'm like, unless she goes to therapy, that's not really going to change. I mean, at what point, again, are you doing it for the drama? Again, that's why the first question is like, what is it about this relationship that's keeping you here? And it's got to be more than just, well, I just love him. It sounds like she's fighting this fight and not him. I remember talking to her and I remember he was kind of like passive in his approach. And again. I'm sure it's a difficult situation.

But I just can't help but wonder. If now she's. She's invested in winning. She's invested in the drama. She's invested in not letting this person. Win? Sure. Especially now that it's gone to the lengths that it has.

Of her literally writing emails. Saying that she's a different person. And kind of like a character witness. Showing it sun like it's it's gone so far beyond what the truth is that it probably makes her want to like dig her heels in a little bit more because she knows how crazy it all is yeah and i feel like if i were this caller i would probably like the main factor for me would be like being like but i love this man and he's done nothing wrong. But it's like there's so I think it kind of is a situation where like if you love them, let them go, like set them free kind of thing where it's like the whole concept of that is that like no matter

how much you care for someone, sometimes circumstances, whether it's wanting children or other like non-negotiables come into play such that like your love cannot override certain circumstances. You can try to love within those circumstances, but you have to admit that the quality of life and quality of love you will have due to them is never going to be as high as maybe you both want for one another. And so I think even though it must feel really shitty and hard and difficult, like this is bad for everyone involved. Bad for morale. It's horrible for morale. Real bad. Could be worse for morale. I feel like we're missing information.

He comes across in this letter, and again, I remember from the call, is like a passive participant in all this. It's like she's fighting the fight versus her, but you know, I'm not getting a lot of like, and my husband was like furious, and all I heard is my boyfriend hasn't seen his kid

in a couple weeks, as if it's like, well, you know, there's no like he's really upset. And maybe she's leaving that part out. But like, why isn't he more involved in this story? I remember being on the call with her and also feeling like in his retelling of certain things to Samantha, I felt like there were some gaps and there were some moments missing. And I remember encouraging her, like, please go back and ask some follow up questions because it doesn't feel like he's even giving her the full truth. But it seems like she's fighting this fight more than he is.

That's also weird. I think both like whether it's like kind of her ego got engaged as it would make a lot of sense if it did in this situation or she's like she feels really protective and defensive over her boyfriend seeing his ex-wife go to all of these like

really extreme lengths to try to ruin a happy relationship and so she also just like feels like oh my god if this woman is doing all of this to us like i need to be the one to protect you because you can't protect yourself which is also not true per se advice if you don't have a defined deadline, I would define it. And it shouldn't be more than a month. And knowing that is saying changing in a month. And he needs to do more. I don't know what it is, but there's just my gut tells me this is not her battle to fight. And she's the one fighting it. Well, I'm sorry.

Going through this. Samantha, please evacuate. Evacuate, girl. Please. He was older, right? Too. I believe so. Yeah. Because Samantha is only 27. Evacuate, girl. Please. He was older, right, too? I believe so, yeah, because Samantha's only 27. He comes with some huge baggage.

I think he's in his early 40s. Is the son a teenager? Yeah, I believe so. I thought he was older. In my head, I was thinking four-year-old, and then on the call with her, I was like, oh, he's older than I thought. Yeah. He's got too much baggage.

Maybe there's some fixer energy going on here. She's in it for the drama as much as she's in it for love because i don't know what the love is i don't know where the love i and i'm sure he's nice and sure they have fun time hanging out and but this is nuts there's more than just like not much as well not you know not much has changed but so much has happened yes you know i wish that yeah and it's like not much has changed this woman's impersonating a former best friend of mine trying to sabotage me by way of she's catfishing her own son yes yes it reminds me of when someone's like how are you you're like i'm good then you're like actually no let me let

me take that back no everything everything has changed yes it's just gotten worse yes it's gotten way worse and it's not getting better. And you're waiting for it to get better. And you have this idea in your head that you have some sort of timeline. But the reason you haven't thought about that actual timeline or defined it is because, again, I think you're caught up in the drama. And a lot of things to say about this ex-wife, but does not seem like she's a quitter. Not a quitter. She does not seem like someone. a quitter. Not a quitter. Like, she does not seem like someone.

And she's not going anywhere. You know, they have a kid together. And until your boyfriend learns how to deal with his baggage in a more productive way, we come in with baggage. And it's like, you know, we want to use that literal metaphor. It's just like, he's got so much baggage, he can't carry it all. And he's handing it off to you to hold the bag, so to speak. And you're not allowed to board a plane with stuff from other people. It's a security risk. And it's almost like if he's not carrying anything anymore, she's out there just holding

all this baggage. There's so much other stuff going on here, I'm convinced. Anyway, break up. Well, we have a lot more fun updates for you., so we'll get to them. Again, if you want more and more updates, we have so many more update specials available to you behind Vile Files Plus. Just go to vilefiles.com to sign up. Plus, we're recapping Vanderpump Rules season. Well, we wrapped up season one. Now we're into season two. We also have our Pop Culture Roundup. So much more content available for you under Vile Files Plus, so check it out. All right, let's get to our callers. Question time with Nick. Let's ask Nick your sexy questions.

Welcome back, Emma. Hello. How's it going? Good. So I called in asking for advice about why my boyfriend is faking his orgasms or supposedly faking his orgasms. I remember you. Let's play a quick clip from our first call with Emma to remind our audience what that call was about. My boyfriend is faking his orgasms.

Okay. He pulls out and goes into a towel like a little white towel i'm sure this is not hopefully he's not the only one that does this pull out method i guess you want to say whatever um so he brings a towel he has well we live together but in his little like bedside table he has like a bunch of white little towels for this purpose. He threw the towel in the laundry and then went downstairs. And this is maybe toxic of me, but I went to go feel it. And it was bone dry, completely bone dry front and back. I'm literally rubbing up, rubbing my hand all over. You're putting it on your face. You're like scrubbing your face

just to make sure. Have you ever faked an orgasm? Plenty. Okay. Why do you, you know, with men and. Why do you fake an orgasm? Because I want them to feel like they've accomplished something or I know, hey, you know what? This isn't it. I'm not going to. So I'm just going to fake it. So he thinks I did.

And I know I'm not going. Well, so why would a man. So, so is it the same thing then? Is that why he's doing it? I mean, I assume. Yes. I mean, usually, you know you know what is it actum's razor the most simplest explanation is the is the correct one and yes i mean you know society has this double standard or whatever you want to call it that it is incredibly easy for men to climax

whenever you know they're just walking hard-ons and if you touch their dick it'll explode full of cum or whatever the fuck you know and um i think as young people hooking up there's always this like uh expectation for men climaxing you know even the point i think women you know i think young women or maybe women of all ages will wrongly decide that that sex for them is about getting a guy off because there's that sense of accomplishment. There's like this tangible thing of, well, I got him to get off. So therefore, I'm good at sex or therefore he loves me or therefore he's attracted to me. All these things. Right. Same reason, again, why, you know, like why women might fake orgasms. loves me or therefore he's attracted to me all these things right yeah same reason again why you

know like why women might fake orgasms you know part of the reason was why is like just like biologically speaking it is very difficult for the majority of women to climax via penetrative sex or it's and for other women it's just difficult to climax, period. There could be past trauma or whatever. There's a lot of variables that come into it, right? And so why is he doing it? Again, like, yeah, he's, there's a probably, like you said, you sense a sense of embarrassment. You know, there is, you know, it's just like, I think every guy wants their dick to work like it always did when they were 19. He could be stressed out.

He's just like, he might not be able to maintain the erection all that aside you just fucking ask him and i know it's a sensitive subject i don't want him to i know because then he's gonna know that i reached into the laundry got the towel felt it up and down both sides like he's gonna know that i did that and i feel like he's gonna be like why are you like testing me or why are you like going behind my back and doing it's a it's an awkward conversation but first i don't think you say that first it's kind of like hey babe can i ask you a vulnerable question have you ever faked an orgasm with me see what he says if he lies to you then you have to hit him with the like listen i i know it's gonna sound fucking weird but like the reason why i checked the towel and i didn't see anything in it and listen it's oh it's babe i i know it's gonna sound fucking weird but like the reason why i checked

the towel and i didn't see anything in it and listen it's oh it's babe it's okay it's like i fucking love you there's nothing going there's nothing wrong i just want to talk to you about something i want to talk to you about our sex life i am not accusing you of anything i love you i love your dick you're amazing i just like i'm just a little kid and i just want us to talk about these these things at times. And you just have to do your best to not make him feel attacked. Like you can only do so much. And he's going to have to work on how he responds when he's feeling a little vulnerable and insecure and a little defensive.

Like the other day, he's just going to have to like man up and have an awkward conversation with his girlfriend. man up and have an awkward conversation with his girlfriend? I told you about how I found out, you know, feeling the towel, realizing it was dry. And you and I wasn't sure like how to confront him. And also like, you know, I don't know, like more, there's obviously more to it, right? You know, he's embarrassed or, you know, how to have a conversation about it. And your advice was to, whenever I bring it up, do it in a way where it's like letting him know that it's okay if he's not going to, and it would never, because you were assuming maybe in his past, like there were girls who, you know, maybe gave him crap for that or something or made him embarrassed about it or whatever. Well, just in general, yeah yeah there's just a lot of societal pressures yes that the

expectation is that it's easy for a guy to climax and yes and then society also puts pressure on women and makes it feel like it's their fault if a guy doesn't climax so everyone is kind of feeling like what the fuck is going on if a guy doesn't climax? And so there's just a lot of people, I guess, on edge or triggered in that potential scenario. Yeah. And as a guy, yeah, I can imagine that, you know, that would be the reason as to why he's faking it, right? Because he's like, I'm not going to, and I don't want her to, maybe I could, girls could be mad about it or assume, you know, they're cheating or something. I don't want her to maybe I could girls could be mad about it or assume you know they're cheating or something I don't know and so you be I that's what you kept saying is like whenever I do bring it up make sure that he it's not almost like I guess in an accusatory way or sure yeah

so what happened where are we at so I can't remember if you had said how to bring it up because it's kind of weird that I like how I found out right like it was kind of me being a snoop I guess I'm pretty sure I said something like don't bring it up during sex yes you did or before sex or like right yeah whatever right exactly yeah and so I didn't it was like us it was we had done it like the day before whatever so like we're not going to tonight I can tell we're not whatever whatever and so i brought it up the way i did it which and see if this is maybe me lying i mean it was but i said that i needed to use the towel afterwards to wipe myself but didn't want to use the part that had been used so i was feeling for a dry spot and i felt and the whole

thing was dry so wait you tried to basically catch him in the... Wait, hold on. So you're telling me you went about it by trying to pretend that you needed the dry towel? Mm-hmm. Because I didn't know how he was going to be like, what, you felt it because you were assuming I faked it? Why are you snooping around? It almost felt like it was me snooping.

Yeah, and so I was like, I just need to bring it up in a natural way and not and like oh i casually found this out like i was feeling it and it was completely dry and before he could speak i was like i just want you to know that you know if and i'd use your advice and said like if you you know aren't going to and i was trying to not accuse him of of f it, which I was. So, hold on, hold on. Like, walk me through. Okay, you just had sex, right? When I brought it up, no. So, you didn't have sex. But how did you, like, so this alleged towel was from when?

Oh, I'm sorry. That's what, yeah, it was from a previous time is when I had sex. I didn't specify which time. I said, oh, another time we had sex, you know, last week or whatever it was. Don't you clean your towels? Or am I just the way I brought it up was the way I brought it up was, oh, last week when we had sex, I wanted to use the towel and so on. OK, I now now we're on the same page okay so you used okay yeah i thought you were like i'm gonna catch him in the act and use that as a way to bring it up i'm like that's gonna sound total accusatory you were like oh by the way hey last week

something i wanted to bring up is i i grabbed the rag and noticed it was dry okay gotcha okay all right fair enough all right that's yeah all right and then what'd you say bring it up in a weird way so how did you bring it up once once you had you said what i said hey last week you know i was um i just wanted to bring this up just because i've been thinking about it last week i um right after we had sex you because he like, if it's in the morning, he'll go downstairs right away and make us coffee or whatever. I was like, oh, I was going to get dressed

and I took the rag, but I wanted to wipe myself, but wanted to use a dry part. So I was feeling the whole thing and noticed the whole thing was dry. And then before he could speak or, you know, deny any of it or whatever, not that he would deny it,

but I was like, I just want you to know that if you're ever not going to, you know, it's totally okay. We don't expect you to every time you're very giving with me and whatever. And it's, it's not to be expected that you need to every time. Like I would never be upset about it. I would rather you just tell me you're not going to then possibly pretend to, um, I tried to use, tried to not use the word fake it. I don't know why I felt like that was like really accused for it i don't know in the past if he feels like he's like a little bit being attacked he'll get pretty

defensive and i have to calm him down and not get too super and have him not get super defensive and he was so not defensive but also denied it it was really weird oh He goes, oh, that's so weird. Maybe it just dried. It's not weird. He just lied. That's all. Yeah. And yeah. I mean, I think he lied, right? Because I felt it right away.

I mean, that wasn't the first. I had done that before and felt it and it had been dried like two or three times. He denied it. Yeah. And so he was like, oh, that's weird. Maybe it just dried really quick. And I go, well, I mean, it was right after. That's him being defensive.

Yeah. Yeah, it is. But not in like an outwardly defensive way. I guess it was like a secretly defensive. You're right. You're right. And I go, well, you know, either way, I just want you to know that if you're not if you aren't going to, you know, it's totally OK. Just get home again. And he goes, he was nice. But he said, OK, I appreciate that. Thank you. okay just hit home again and he goes he was nice but he said okay i appreciate that thank you you know and then that was the end of the conversation i didn't need him to admit it i knew what had happened gotcha it's what i mean how am i gonna argue with him no it's probably it sounds like you handled it well clearly you sensed his discomfort with the topic which is why you said hey either way just so you know it's okay if you don't which that was a great response has yeah and then actually the next time we had sex

he wasn't going to and he said he wasn't going to there you go i very much tried to be really cool about it and like oh really oh no that's totally fine you know whatever like no problem like very much so so he knew and then so that was like the immediate time after a couple days after our conversation and since then he hasn't had any problems with it so i almost feel like the pressure was taken off probably yeah it's not yeah it sounds like you had a great uh i'm nitpicking but the only thing that could have been slightly better than like oh no it's not a big deal is this kind of been like cool like really like not even not baby him about it yeah just be like oh because it it's a normal

thing so yeah rather than being like oh it's okay like just you know like it's like that you know you i know we know you did something bad but but I want to, you know, you didn't do something bad. What happened is normal. Like, it's normal for people to have sex and one, if not both people, not to climax. It is the most normal thing. In fact, more than anything, that's probably the norm than people constantly orgasming. So it's just, it's nothing. It's just like, oh, it's not going to happen. Okay. Like, that's it. you know but it sounds like it was great and so far like you said ever since then it hasn't been an issue the fact that the very next opportunity uh he was comfortable enough to acknowledge it you know is all the answer you need from what was going on in the past. And yeah, it's, it's amazing how much stress can affect a man's ability to perform. I mean, that's the number one killer of, of male performance is anxiety and

stress. And yeah, it makes sense. Yeah. And you just needed the pressure taken off, I guess. And I mean, I haven't checked the towels since, cause I don don't think I need to and I don't want to but are you going to cum yet is like the worst thing you could say to a guy uh huh I'm sure I mean it goes both ways right yeah I mean yeah just imagine if you felt if you felt pressure

which I'm sure women know what that's like um it doesn't usually help you know and so pressure uh given the other way, it has the same, very similar response. Yeah, definitely. Makes sense. So your advice worked and we haven't had any issues. I was just winging it.

No, I'm just kidding. No, that's great. Great to hear. Yeah. And hopefully just a lesson for the both of you is that having these uncomfortable conversations, it's okay to have, important to have, which a lot of couples, I mean, some couples can be married for years and avoids these conversations. You know, these, these uncomfy conversations when it comes to sex or money or, you know, other things that as your relationship evolves and gets

more and more serious, people don't want to have those conversations because it's uncomfortable. It doesn't matter how much you love each other. When you start talking about finances, especially when people have different levels of income and they're at different points of their life, whatever it is, it doesn't matter how strong your relationship is. It can be uncomfortable. And then we at times will associate discomfort in a relationship as something negative. It's like, oh, we're talking about something important. It makes us feel uncomfortable. Is there something wrong? Well, maybe not something wrong.

It's just like some conversations are just that uncomfortable. And we still have to have those from time to time. And the more we can have it, the less uncomfortable it will be, but kind of a chicken before the egg situation. So good first step for you guys. I mean, hopefully it feels good, not only for you. I would love, obviously, for him to have just acknowledged it, but hey. I was going to say it would have been a better conversation,

more of an actual conversation if he had said why he faked it and his feelings around it. Right now I wouldn't mess with good you know but maybe like you know down the road you can be like you used to fake it right you know like you know maybe when you're in a like down the road when it's yeah yeah something you hopefully can both laugh about right now just enjoy uh and i got what i wanted right he was honest about it during the time when he wasn't something you hopefully can both laugh about right now. Just enjoy. And I got what I wanted, right? He was honest about it during the time when he wasn't going to.

And so that was the point. I guess. Yeah. And you're like, no big deal. That's awesome. Well, thank you so much for the update. It was a great update.

Yeah. Thank you. Thank you so much. Well, keep us posted on anything else that transpires, but we appreciate it. That feel another towel, I guess.

All right. Yeah. All right. Well, take care. All right. Yeah. All right. Well, take care. Thank you. Okay. Bye. Bye-bye.

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We are certainly obsessed. Stream every episode of Traders Now only on Peacock. Ladies and gentlemen. What are you doing? What do you mean? Just keep it simple. Stream every episode of Traders promos on TV, dude. This is how you get the fans engaged. This is how you get listeners. We're trying to get listeners here. If we just say, oh, we're two dudes that talk about Bravo, people are going to get tired of it already. We need some oomph.

All right, then fine. Let's try to do it with your voice. Bravo, bros. Good job. Okay, we have another written update from Anne. we have another written update from ann uh she was from our episode with scott evans and she wrote in because she was considering firing her bridesmaid who cheated on her brother and scott goes i know this mother i know this mother because nick went why is the mom so obsessed with her because the mom was like no you have to keep her in the bridal party

oh that's mom was so over the top with the brother's girl for appearance yeah and who she did who again the bridesmaid she did on the brother yeah and she'd gotten close with the bridesmaid so she was feeling really hurt as well yeah and mom wanted her to keep appearances up yeah kind of be like hush hush but also she had many many siblings so she had plenty of bridal party but for some reason the girlfriend had to stay in what was the advice we gave like maybe you should fire your bridesmaid you should sit down and you should talk with the brother and the bridesmaid so she says i did not have to fire my bridesmaid and she is still in the wedding i took nick's advice of sitting down with my brother and

the bridesmaid in person to talk through everything. After the podcast, I reached out to him and asked if I could talk to the bridesmaid about our relationship. And as I predicted, he immediately jumped to being defensive without hearing me out. I let him get all his frustrations out and I remained patient with him despite him saying hurtful things out of anger. And I just explained that in order to move forward and heal, that we needed to have a conversation, especially before the wedding. The conversation went better than I could have hoped my brother and i worked through some of the things in our relationship and i really do believe we came out stronger i held him accountable for his words and i held the bridesmaid accountable for her mistakes too i explained my concerns and

how i felt betrayed by her too since we were becoming friends my brother apologized to me for saying things that made me feel hurt and the bridesmaid apologized for cheating on my brother and took accountability for her actions. So all in all, they're still in the wedding. She feels she's set some boundaries. And if she if the bridesmaid cheats again, then she's out of the wedding. Oh, my God. Fair enough. I mean, fair enough.

But the fact that like that has to be said is wild to me. Yeah. But she says she's content with both of them staying in the wedding well she did her being in a relationship with the brother should be contingent on her never cheating again like well she's not saying that she's only not going to cheat so that she can be a bridesmaid yeah yeah i think this is the brother was probably like, yes. Yes. But anyone who cheats on any relationship that has infidelity in it. Yeah. And they decide to stay together, which happens a lot. And many of those relationships are successful. There's always the if you do it again, if you do it again, you know, often sometimes it's the other person does it.

You know, how many times does that happen? Well, you cheated on me, you know, and they forgive someone, but that person just really can't get over it. Even they say they over it. We've had callers like that. That happens all the time. It's a pretty, unfortunately, normal thing. So I just think that if it happens again, it's just an unfortunate kind of elephant in the room that you must be discussed, you know?

Yeah. Honestly, I love how she ended the email, though, because she said, honestly, the best thing that came out of this conversation was a closer relationship and better understanding between me and my brother so i have no regrets we are moving forward with healing and healthy boundaries that's amazing that's good yeah good for her for being able to see the silver lining for sure well we'll have to reach back out again i want to know where this wedding goes i really want to know i want to know what her brother and them are doing to make sure

it doesn't happen again. It sounds like they're in couples therapy and they're both individually in therapy as well. Well, because remember, wasn't it she was saying that the brother kind of contextualized it because when the brother and the girl got together, she was actually with someone else, but he was able to justify

it because the other relationship wasn't good. So he kind of felt like he was saving her. Oh, that's how their relationship started. I believe so, yeah. So it was like she'd done it before. She'd cheated before with the brother. But he was kind of, had thought he was like the hero of that moment,

helping her get out of that other relationship. Well, maybe the next time she cheats on him, it'll be to end the relationship. I don't know. I mean listen but they're in therapy you know yeah

progress and this woman is a therapist herself mhm is a therapist myself I'm rooting for their growth and applaud their willingness to hold one another

as well as themselves accountable yeah she was a therapist is a therapist yeah but then she says however as a sister

I do not totally trust her yet and I want to see more from her sure yeah I'm sure there's a lot of therapists who don't trust it's like I wouldn't date them no it's your example from the bachelorette it's like and the bride and the therapist

two different people but yeah she's given her up to six months before the wedding this woman is allowed to just say i don't want to be in the wedding anymore and no hard feelings no questions asked so there's a lot of like intentions yeah but she's helping her she's said giving her a sister-in-law yeah you have an out up to six months out yeah i feel like the brother would hate that yeah but i can also see it from a bride's point of view, too, because you don't want anybody up there that doesn't want to be there.

I totally get it. I get everything from her point of view. Apparently, their only boundary that they countered with is if one of them drops out or is eliminated from the wedding party. I don't really know what that means. Eliminated? It sounds like a game show. Then they will both leave the wedding party. Oh, my God.

We're falling down like dominoes so the brother would leave if the girlfriend leaves she would take him down with her that doesn't seem fair but if that's something they want to do I mean it's fair if that's what they want to do

but he doesn't realize that the stipulation is based off of her potentially cheating again oh my god imagine that double blow. You get cheated on by your girlfriend and then you get kicked out of your sister's wedding. He won't be kicked out of the wedding. He's not being kicked out. They're saying they have the right to remove themselves. So that seems like it's from their side.

Yes. I don't think Anne is going to kick her brother out of the bridal party. Yeah. I wish Anne was with us to talk about it. But my guess is this is all based off of if this happens again, right? Or if she decides more than six months, that's another rule. If it's more than six months and she just changes her mind, she doesn't have to be in the wedding. But according to the rule that they added, if she's only going to change her mind,

she changes her mind, the brother gets to go with her. She says, I already understood that. So moving forward, if the bridesmaid does not meet our discussed expectations leading up to the wedding, then I will enforce my boundary. And they will both likely be removed from the wedding. What are the expectations? That she doesn't cheat. Right. Because this wasn't like my bridesmaid isn't living up to like being a bridesmaid. It was like, I think my bridesmaid who is only my bridesmaid

because I became friends with her after she dated my brother who cheated on my brother. Oh, here are the, the expectations are also having no drama or fighting at the wedding. Oh.

What's that about? We won't know if there's drama at the wedding until the wedding. Yeah. Oh yeah, true. Maybe wedding events. She removed them

from the bridal party. Events leading up to it. If they're having like relationship problems. Like if she cheats on him and he gets mad. Or if she comes with drama, yeah, to like the bachelorette party or something. My gut, if Vanna was on the phone, she would, all of her boundaries and expectations are centered around the possibility of her sister-in-law not being trustworthy. of her sister-in-law not being trustworthy. And so when she says drama,

she's implying that she can't, as she said, doesn't know if she can totally trust her yet and that her behavior will create the drama. Her brother, in solidarity to his girlfriend, of which he wants to, you know, be the supportive king type of thing, is just like, well well if she goes I'm going to go and Anne agreed to it thinking well sure

like you know I'm not gonna she doesn't need to explain to her brother why she has the boundary that she sets all in all I think this is very positive and it sounds like the couple is actually I don't know what's gonna happen with this couple and I don't how old was how old was their brother and their girlfriend?

Do we know? Well, Anne was 27. Was her younger brother? I thought her brother was a few years younger. So they're younger. She made mistakes in the past. Now they're both in individual therapy and couples therapy. You know, that doesn't guarantee success,

but at least they're doing something about it. At least they're actually putting in the work. And unlike in the past where she cheated on her then boyfriend to just have a break and get a new relationship, you know, her infidelity in this relationship, I don't know what caused it or what it was about, but it wasn't about leaving. And it wasn't just, you know, her taking the easy way out it's quote unquote the easy way out of ending a relationship so she sounds like she's hopefully dealing with some past trauma or whatever has caused her to act out in the in the manner in which she did when she she cheated and

so that's a very positive thing so hopefully she sticks with it i guess everything else just whatever i want to get on the phone i feel like the only way she isn't in the wedding party is if she if they break up or she cheats on him again and there's no guarantee that her boy you know charity stayed with some guy for six years in between a bunch of cheating so there's no guarantee that he's gonna break up this time if he finds out she cheated. So, but if she does, I'm going to go ahead

and guess that Anne, she will break up with the bridesmaid. Will the brother just not go to the wedding then? I think there are green scenarios in which they're not

visualizing the picture, which is what we're literally trying to do right now. Yeah, because I'm just thinking if she cheats, she's out of the bridal party,

but if the brother still wants to stay with her. Yeah, well, then it's getting real messy anyway. So that's going to be the least of their concerns. This is why I doubt her brother. I doubt her brother is going to if he finds out his girlfriend cheated on him a second time, he might stay with her. But I can't imagine he's going to refuse to go to his sister's wedding. If that happens, boy, I'm worried about him.

Oh, yeah. And he's really lost. Do you think there should be a rule? Like, no... You have to be like a sibling. You know what I mean? Or you have to be married into the family.

No siblings, boyfriends or girlfriends. What are you talking about? Like, for a bridal party. Do you get... Well, I don't think she... Is it a little riskier when you get people dating?

Well, sure. It's definitely riskier. But she didn't pick her as a bridesmaid only because her brother was dating her. Yeah, they've gotten close. That's true. Which is why she's so hurt as well. Yeah. Well, good luck.

Have an amazing wedding, Anne. We actually hope you have a beautiful day. Yeah. Do you want to invite us? There's no drama. We've had some other callers invite us to weddings. Oh, my God. I got a DM from our bride to

be that the wedding that's on my birthday and she literally offered me the mexico wedding yeah she was like if you want to come we'd like seriously we'd have you but i can't move my birthday party yeah we have a big birthday bash i got people flying in i felt so bad i would have gone to their wedding 100 yeah well we have another wedding we might go to. I want to go to that one too. More on that later. Yeah. If you want Genevieve and I come to your wedding.

No weddings. Oh, shoot. They're not allowed. Oh. For us even? I don't think so. Why? You have to put that in our contract if you want that to be the case.

I think it kind of loosely is. What? That we can't go to weddings? Weddings from callers from the show? What would you have done if I had a book to flight to Mexico I don't know all right no weddings but send us

pictures all right well it's time for our next caller hold on to your kilts dearies a peacock original the traders is back with a new season of strategy betrayal sabotage and murder this

killer season features an all-new celebrity cast that Vulture hailed as reality royalty, living in a Scottish castle for the ultimate murder mystery competition. We're talking fierce competitors, reality stars, and public figures battling it out for a whopping cash prize. This season's cutthroat missions are next level, just like whatever Alan Cumming pulls out of his brilliantly eccentric wardrobe. One thing is for sure, these 21 players will do anything to avoid a plot in Alan's graveyard. Find out why critics and audiences alike are raving about the Emmy award-winning series. The New York Times is calling it a murder mystery with clothes to die for, and Vox adding that it should be your new reality TV obsession.

We are certainly obsessed. Stream every episode of Traders now only on Peacock. Ladies and gentlemen. What are you doing? What do you mean? I'm making it. Just keep it simple. I'm making the promo.

Just keep it simple. Just say, hey, we're the Brav Bros. Two guys that talk about Bravo. Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, we're the Brav Bros. No. Oh. Dude. Stop with the voice. Just keep it simple. I've seen promos on TV, dude. This is how you get the fans engaged. This is how you get listeners. We're trying to get listeners here. If we just say, oh, we're two dudes that talk about Bravo, people are gonna get tired of it already. We need some oomph. All right,

then fine. Let's try to do it with your voice. Bravo, bros. Good job. Welcome back, Michelle. Thank you. Thanks for having me back. How's it going? Good, good. So, remind our audience, last time you called, you were trying to shoot a shot with someone who had ghosted you in the past. Yeah, yeah. So, I reached out because

we had briefly tried dating long distance. He doesn't live where I do. He lives where my sister does. And after a miscommunication over text, he completely ghosted me. And then a few months later, he responded to one of my stories, started liking my post again, trying to slide back in. But I was still pretty bent at the time. So I never answered him at that point.

Fast forward two years later, just in kind of like a bored dating situation. I've seen him around town. I've seen his dating profile again. So just wanted to see if it was worth it to reach out and see if anything is still there or if he's grown up at all. Gotcha. All right. Let's play a quick clip from our original call to bring our audience up to speed. I'm Michelle. I'm 32 and I'm trying to decide if I should shoot my shot with someone that ghosted me two years ago. Okay. So you pitch us. Okay. So two summers ago, we matched on a dating app. And after we exchanged a couple of messages, I learned that he actually doesn't live in my city, but lives about two hours away in a really

small town where my sister does. We seem to hit it off and have a lot in common. We met up a couple times and had a couple really good dates. And then one weekend, he came to stay with me for the night and all went well there. We had a great time when he left. No weird feelings or red flags, so to speak. But then the next week, just in our communication, I felt like there was a shift with him and that maybe he wasn't as interested or trying to keep his options open. After he left, he said that his work schedule changed, which it often did. In his line of work, his schedule is not super consistent. And so I was like, okay, the timing of that seems a little suspicious to where now he'd be busy when I'm coming into town. But like he still was like initiating

conversation. And so after like a week of just not being super sure, I thought like he said something to kind of give me a segue to ask if he was still interested. I was like, it just kind of seems like maybe it's more of like a friend vibe since you've been here. The last like text he sent me was like, well, I'm glad I'm cutting off the friend vibe though. That's really cool. And then he basically just stopped answering from there. And so at that point I was like, okay, I'm done with it. Like going to wash my hands of it. Like he's clearly not interested and like not able to at least like have a mature exit. And so a couple months go by and then he started like liking my like Instagram. And so a couple months go by. And then he started like

liking my like Instagram posts again. Zero effort. I know. I love how real you are. I got into a relationship, didn't really think about him any further. Once that new relationship had ended, I kind of like took a break from dating from there, redownloaded the apps, and I saw his profile again. And I was like, okay, like a year, year and a half later, like he's still single. Like, I don't know, seeing him again and like seeing that his profile was still out there and like seemingly still single. I'm just wondering if maybe like now two years later, like could someone mature enough to maybe make it worth it to have another shot or like, would he still be the same?

I think he just lost interest after you guys hooked up. Honestly, that's what it sounds like to me. And it's not even a reflection of you. He doesn't really know you, you know, he just ended up having sex with you and a lot of guys, once they have sex with someone and they don't know them, it's just, they do lose some interest and then they can get it back. But he then started probably internalize, you know, he probably started making excuses while she does live far away and then the awkwardness of you

being like we're not on the same page what are we he didn't really know and then he probably just was like you know he was responding you just enough to avoid you calling him an asshole is my read on the situation okay take his advice But if you want to have some fun, it's been two years and you're still thinking about the man. Protect your feelings. Go into it. Know that it's...

But text him. Just text him. You're going to feel so much better after you send the text. Just do it. Could you be a fuckboy? I guess the question is, to her judge's point,

could you... Can you like him without getting attached? Could you be the fuckboy in this situation? Could you be a fuck boy? I guess the question is to her judge's point. Could you? Can you like him without getting attached? Could you be the fuck boy in this situation? Could you detach yourself from? Could you have fun with this? If you do really like want to have a future with this dude and want to date him, then take Nick's advice because he doesn't sound like the best man. But you're just around for some fun. You're going to your sister's town for the

weekend just want to have a date no shame in a date no shame in a text a text is a text you can wrong number it you can block him you can ghost him after you don't owe anyone anything you say this to him i i have nothing better to do so i figured i'd hit you up and see what you're doing honestly it's a bit of a like kind of a nag where you're kind of like i have i had nothing better to do so i was just seeing what you're doing i know you live here like are you free keep it super casual we love it and kind of like put them down a little bit it's just like i'm so fucking bored i had nothing better to do so i figured what the hell so you're not even lying because a lot of this is coming from a place of boredom.

You're just super single right now. You saw him and it's just like, let's give the guy who already ghosted me a shot. And if you had anything else going on, you wouldn't be thinking about this guy. All right. What was the advice I gave you? And what did you do with that advice? You basically told me to go into it with zero expectation but may as well shoot the shot and see what happens but let him know that my options were either to like sit

at home and do literally nothing or to reach out to him you told me to say like i have nothing better to do like are you free to grab a drink yes and basically imply that like my options were watching like you were randomly hitting him up and because you were bored yes yeah and did you do that so i didn't say i have nothing better to do just because that is so far outside my wheelhouse but i did say i'm in town my sister's busy and i'm just trying to find something to do okay free to grab a drink and catch up okay and so he responded and said he for sure would have if he was home, but he was at a family party. And I said, no worries. I know I'm asking last minute, maybe another time.

And then he said, let me know the next time you make the journey back. And at that point, I actually already did have specific dates where I was coming back into town. It was already planned out, but I didn't want to come across too eager. Did you tell him? Well, I said, I think I'll be back in a couple of weeks. I'll let you know. come across too eager and be like oh did you tell him back on this date well i said i was i think i'll be back in a couple weeks i'll let you know i didn't want to be like good for sure be here you know at date or whatever and so he didn't say anything after that so i'm kind of just like whatever i tried like at least i shot the shot i wasn't really expecting much of anything like i

wasn't sure he'd answer at all. So at least my ego is not completely bruised that he didn't answer me. But I just don't know when I go back next week. I'll be there for a full week this time when I go back, if it's worth it to try again or just leave it be. Does he follow you on social media? He doesn't anymore. That's because I had followed him back in the day and removed him from my follow list as well. So we don't follow each other anymore. I don't think you should let him know. That's kind of my thought too. If he wanted to, this is the definitely in the, uh, if he wanted to, he would, you know, you're like, Oh, I think I might be back in a couple of weeks. Didn't

respond to that. And that's not great. And he responded already knowing he was out of town. that's not great and he responded already knowing he was out of town so while he did respond he knew he couldn't hang out with you and i don't know why that should matter but unfortunately with some of these guys it does and either way he does know like if he was someone who got a message from someone, he was like, oh, wow. Like, I'm glad she hit me up. Like what great timing. He would be inclined to check in. So you coming to town soon? Yada, yada.

And here's the thing. Let's say you go to your sister's house for a week. Don't hear from him. And then literally then Monday afterwards, he hits you up and says, are you coming to town anytime soon? When's that happening? Like that would actually be perfect. In fact, I know your initial thought would be like, of course he got back to me a day after I was there for a week. But your sister lives there, right? It's not that far away. You're going to go back again. Clearly you go there on the regular.

And what a great opportunity for you to be like, oh no, I was literally just there. Maybe next time. And he will be like, why didn't you hit you up? And you could be like, oh, I was too busy. You know, you were busy doing shit. You weren't and aren't a priority. You know, you don't have to say that last part, but that's the message you'll give him, which is you're not waiting around for him. And then you can always go back in the future. But yes, I don't think you should be like, hey, I'm going to be back again. Are you free again? Like, this is a guy, again, very much has the power. He ghosted you in the past. He's shown example after example of just kind of only wanting to hang out with you at his convenience.

And when push came to shove, he just disappeared on you. So, like, not a great track record. So you reached out. You tried. He wasn't there. Ball's very much in his court. What if he texts her beforehand? Like, what if out of nowhere he's like,

what are your exact dates? When do you get to town? Before she's there. If he texts you before he's there, drip him information. Or what if you follow him on Instagram, you re-follow him before you're there, and then day one.

And just see what he does. Is your social media private? No, it's public. Okay, so it's public. Nothing's stopping him from having curiosity and viewing your stories right now. You can start being active. I don't know how active you are on social media

or how often or on the regular. Step it up. But maybe step it up right now. Kick it into high gear. So it's not your first post in like four months. It's like, I'm back. Yeah, so maybe, you know so it's not your first post in like four months i'm back yeah so maybe you know post a couple stories over the next you know few days and then post something with your sister you know on the second day you get there don't be obvious about it but we're getting into dangerous

water here of putting a lot of energy into this guy which is technically what we're doing right now but i mean i appreciate the update but we're not getting good vibes from this guy you know yeah and that was like my thought too and i remember jojo saying i'll just feel better once i send it and that's kind of how it was like i sent it and was like we'll see what happens and then when he responded i was like well whatever like i gave it a shot and now like that lingering curiosity is going away which is good yeah it's not like you're going to like South America and this is the only chance to see him or something. You know, this is a place you visit on the regular

because of your sister. If he ever reaches back out, you can always go visit him if you want to. But this sounds like a guy who's at best going to be interested in having some sex. Yeah, no, I would agree with that. And my gut instinct was not to say anything when I went back so I'm glad that you are in agreement with that I'm sure those stories exist but I

be hard-pressed to find people who ended up marrying the person who ghosted them I'm sure there's someone listening to me like I did you could still get divorced um but and I'm rooting for it. But listen, that doesn't mean they can't make it work, but this guy is not, he hasn't really changed his pattern.

Yeah, which was my question, to see if he grew up or changed in two years. Doesn't seem so. And did he respond pretty quickly to the first time? did yeah yeah but it was out of town he's out of town yeah and then you're like oh i'll be back in a couple weeks cold yeah that's just not normal communication that's fucking weird i would agree with that do you have any other like prospects are you on the apps like can we get this guy out of our memory

with a new hottie i actually took a break from the apps. I deleted them all a few weeks ago. Where I'm at, I feel like the options have gotten worse and worse as time has gone on. So it's making me like, I don't want to say bitter, but pessimistic a little bit. So I just deleted them, took a break, going to focus on myself for a bit. So no other prospects right now. Yeah. Okay. Well, you're going to be just fine.

Well, thank you for the advice. I appreciate it. If anything else happens, I'll let you guys know. Oh, yes, please do. Well, just remember, when you get back out there, it doesn't have to be like you go cold turkey, you're completely off the apps. Then you dive back into five apps. As long as you have self-control, you can be active on an app, maybe check it once a week for 10 minutes, and then challenge yourself to get out there and be social. You know what I'm saying? It doesn't have to be this like, now I'm dating, now I'm not dating. As long as you're able to have self-control when it comes to the apps, you can just sprinkle a little date time for yourself without it like such a big part of your life. No, that's good advice.

I think that's the best way to do it. But we tend to, you know, we're extreme people, you know. So maybe sprinkle that in there from time to time. All right. Sounds good. Well, thank you very much for the update. We hate him. Let us know if he ends up reaching out.

It probably won't be the last time you hear from him. It just probably be like four months from now. Yeah, that sounds about right. So I'll keep you guys posted keep in mind you did give him permission to reach out to you when he's bored because technically you claim to have done the same thing yeah just just know that when he does reach out three months okay sounds good all right take care thank you so much all right thank you all right bye-bye good to see you thank you okay we have one more written update it is from victoria uh she called in back on episode 598 uh and she wasn't attracted to her partner's lack of

ambition and the more we talked with her it kind of seemed like she just wasn't happy with her current job she wasn't feeling fulfilled so the two of them are in their early 20s they both still live at home she was working in more of like a kind of sales commission based job. So she was doing pretty well. But at the current time, she hadn't been doing super well. And he was working more of like a blue collar job. I believe he was working for his dad, who I think did some sort of like handyman or construction or carpenter work. And you were saying things like, oh, no, he could, you know, start running a whole like contractor business and do super well for himself but she was

saying like he didn't really want to do that he didn't want to think big picture his parents were charging him rent which she didn't agree with why didn't she agree with his parents charging him rent I mean she said that on the call too you were like you're not guaranteed a free room with your parents she was

living rent free at her parents' house. So I think it was just like a different situation. Privileged. Yes. It was a gift. Yeah. Correct. But anyways, it sounded to us like the root of the problem was maybe she wasn't feeling

very happy with her job. And so she wrote in and she said, I actually pivoted and I'm now going into software sales, which is funny because Nick used to do that, as he mentioned in the talk. So she and her boyfriend are both still currently living with their parents, but he's actively looking for new work or a new career opportunity. They live together with... No, they're each at their own parents' house. I would say that sometimes my success can cause issues internally for my boyfriend, but I'm always supportive and understanding that he is on his own journey. Obviously,

if there are continuous issues and strain on the relationship because of my success that is not something i will stand and he's aware of that i'm excited to see what next steps he takes and where he ends up career-wise now we have kind of a new issue because it seems like there's like resentment popping up or just like insecurity with her ambition which i don't think we really touched on necessarily in the call no because when the call started she was saying things like you know she dated people in the past that were able to i believe take care of her financially but lacked other areas and while like he wasn't necessarily rolling in the dough so to speak he was sending her edible arrangements and really making her feel like a priority so it was kind of one of

those things of those edible arrangements we weighed kind her feel like a priority. So it was kind of one of those things of... Those edible arrangements. We weighed kind of the pros and cons, and he's clearly showing up for you in these ways and making, you know, you feel special. And now she's saying... That maybe he's having some issues internally. But I'm confused.

What was the original problem? The original problem is that she was just turned off by his lack of ambition. And the fact that he didn't want to take it like a next step further. He just wanted to kind of keep doing his job day in and day out. Because you had said, you know, well, he could manage this company or do this company. And she was like, he doesn't want to do that. And my advice to her was, she wants a different job. Well, your advice to her was, I feel different job your advice to her was I feel like

if you were happy in your job which she really wasn't at the time you might not be feeling this way the insurance job wasn't paying as well as it once did because I think it was like commission based and she just hadn't really had any sales at that point because it was a slow period because she just like wasn't making money

and now it seems she's in this new job she's making more and i i think it makes sense that this has come up now when she's like happy and doing well in her job yeah that he's kind of feeling insecure by how successful he is totally yeah i think for like women this is such a common issue my best friend basically just got broken up with because of this. Oh, gosh. She's like going to be a lawyer in New York. And this guy has never left like the area he lives in.

And but I think a lot of women deal with this. And I wonder like what the advice would be because it's like. Well, how did she know it was because of that? It's just so obvious. I want her to call in. Have her call in. call it i want her i'm not doubting it happens all the time but like i do think sometimes it's maybe not that okay like what do you think the issue now is here what do you interpret her words as then well that's what i'd love to know what she means where she thinks he's struggling i can't speak for all men you know obviously but i do think there might be situations where it's an excuse and not a reason but it's not like this this guy has broken up curious your friend who

you want to call in okay why is it so obvious your lawyer friend who sounds like she's on her way to having a very successful career and being a lawyer, her ex-boyfriend, what did he do? She is in LA right now in law school. But the year before you graduate, you basically find out what job you're going to get. And hers is in New York at a top law firm. And he broke up with her kind of out of the blue and gave all these reasons like we argue they've never argued we have differing interests then like she she just kept pressing him on all the reasons that he said and none of them really made any sense and never argue they would never

like fight gotcha well maybe it's more because she's moving. Yeah. Maybe he doesn't want to move to New York if he's never left where he's from. But he said to her, like he visited New York. He was like, you know, maybe I could see myself here. We could do long distance. But the thing is, is that's a totally reasonable answer. And he didn't say that as the answer. And he said all these other things. I don't know the situation but she'll call him and you'll learn it's more

believable that at the end of the day he was just like dating her for a year maybe just wasn't as in love with the relationship as maybe she was just in general i don't know then she's like i got a job in new york and he might have said oh you know I could see myself doing this and oh I went to New York and I liked it that's night and day from actually deciding to go and it's not like he was like oh fuck I love New York like but then why wouldn't he say that because if she hears that I'll tell you why because if he did that he'd be called shallow really yeah I think because I don't want to move across the country yeah if he was like was like, listen, at the end of the day, I'm just not moving. But she gave him, like she said to him, is it because of this? And he was like, I don't think so.

I don't think so. So then it is. What is I don't think so? I don't know. We'll get her on the phone. We'll get her on the phone. I just think in those situations. Do we get them both on the phone?

I want to talk to both of them. He's not going to do that. Maybe when they met, was she in law school? I find it hard to believe. For the listeners, she's nodding. Then I said, yeah. I find it hard to believe that he met someone in law school. And then in between that time of dating, she was only in law school.

Only to her get a job, which I assumed he thought she would at some point. And then he was just like, I can't possibly date someone who's making more money than me and broke up with her. Come on. More realistically, he just wasn't feeling it and realized, I don't want to move across the country for someone that I don't think I'm going to marry. And then, yeah, made up a bunch of excuses that probably didn't land. But at the end of the day, he was just like, I don't feel like moving and I don't want to have a long distance relationship. And he felt like that would be an asshole thing to say. I don't know.

And insensitive. And that's why he did it. That's my read. It just doesn't make sense that he would all those that he would get into a relationship with someone knowing full well that she was already on this path. If you told me that like they met and they were a couple bartenders together and then she decided to get her life together, and she went to law school, has been crushing it, and she's just a different person from when they met, then we have a conversation. But it just doesn't make sense. What's changed?

What's changed is she's now getting a job in a different city. What hasn't changed is she's a lawyer. Well, I think she knew when they met basically right after they met that she was going to do this job you know like a year in advance true interesting but it's still that was still a we'll get her on the call okay let's get on the call back to this yeah back to this yes so they're still together it's it's not like this the writer inners boyfriend has broke up with her no i know but she's sensing something What do you think she's sensing then? If not, I'd love to ask her.

Yeah, I'd love to ask her. We would too. Listen, I'll email her again. In this, in her, in our writer situation, it seemed like if he generally isn't as ambitious, now you look at a situation, he's generally not ambitious, right? Works for dad.

His own, his whole life has been like, yeah, I'm going to work for my dad, right? He hasn't decided to like spread his rings rings and leave the nest, so to speak. He's never done that. Our caller, on one hand, had a job that she felt, I don't know, this is for me. You know what she did? She pivoted. And then she found a job that she was really enjoying. That ambition, I could see him being kind of subconsciously or consciously uncomfortable with her ambition, knowing full well that he doesn't share that. And that ambition can be intimidating. Especially if it's from a gender standpoint, I think men could be intimidated by

that ambition for sure. There's also a chance that you know time time has passed months have passed since we've spoken with her if she's continuing to ask questions and make comments of why don't you want to do this or don't you want more don't you want to make more money like that could have chipped away at him over these past few months and maybe he's just getting a little bit more upset by those comments maybe yeah i don't i don't think it's a money thing. I think it's an ambition thing. But in the my friend situation, didn't you say it couldn't have been an ambition thing?

Your friend situation thing, I think it's the New York thing. And I think if I had to guess, he just doesn't like her as much as he might have made it seem. But then he keeps texting her. Oh. That's not shocking. We'll talk about it. Oh my then he keeps like texting her. Oh. That's not shocking.

We'll talk about it. Oh my gosh. I'll get her on. Let's get her on. She needs to get over him before she starts this new job. She has time. She has time.

He's never coming around. Well, and I hate him now. He's like been such a fucking freak. He's just a bad communicator. Terrible. He's terrible. Yeah. We'll talk about it.

And not totally honest with his feelings. No. But not even. Yeah. We'll talk about it. And not totally honest with this feeling. No, but not even with himself. But it's also tough. I'm not making excuses, but it's one of those things. Everyone who breaks up with someone wants to be mutual. So when we break up with someone, we try to convince them that they're just as miserable as we are. When it comes to love, we're supposed to want to move across the country for the people we love, you know? And we don't want to say, I don't love you anymore. I don't feel that way I used to feel about you because you feel like an asshole. And if he did say that, she would think he's an asshole and you would think he's an asshole because you're her friend and that's why you're supposed to be there for your friend. But when we break up with someone,

we want it to be mutual. me my guess is is he just doesn't want to date her anymore and doesn't want to put in the effort and doesn't want to like make her a priority and he's using this as an excuse and why does he see roach out to her because like she's still you know he still likes her yeah he doesn't want to marry her damn sorry sorry friend sorry friend it's okay You'll be okay. On to better. All right. Well, enough of that dialogue.

Let's go to our next caller. Shut the hell up. That was great. That was fun. Welcome back, Debbie. Hey, Nick. How are you? So good. How are you?

I'm okay. I can use your help. Okay. Let's play a quick clip and get a quick update, a reminder of what she called about. Welcome back, Debbie. Bring us up to speed. So this is your second update. And last time we talked, you were dabbling in the dating women arena. Yes. So I was dating a man and a woman and deciding which one to go with.

And? And so I ended up dating the woman, continuing to go with that. So I dated this woman and it's been like a couple months and it was honestly very solid. I actually even told my parents about it, which was a big deal for me as well. I learned kind of far in the relationship that she was non monogamous, learning that like

late into kind of our relationship was kind of unfair in a lot of ways. And when she told me that I liked her so much, I tried to just accept it and just make it work for myself, even though I was like, not being true to my own values about it. And it ended up turning into be a disaster. And so I'm calling because I'm like, not over the situation. I'm just like, I'm upset. This is the first woman you've ever dated? Seriously, yeah. That in itself, I would imagine could be kind of intense and new and the fact that you were rejected by her i can imagine that might fuck with you this is all to say like you know maybe just got to give yourself some time and some grace you know most breakups are are shitty and rejection sucks and when we're rejected by someone we do this weird thing like put them on a pedestal but

i'm just wondering if maybe it's just more everything that you're sad about and the fact that she was inconsiderate during the breakup and things like that. But I doubt very much that she is going to be irreplaceable. And so I think you just have to accept and grieve the loss. I think you would serve yourself well if you would just accept the fact that she was inconsiderate and that maybe she's just more of an inconsiderate person than you thought she was and then move on rather than tell yourself that you are owed this by her and then she basically has a debt to pay. Because when we say things like, well, I deserve this. I was owed this by them. Well, in your mind, then you're kind of thinking, well, if they haven't given you what they owed you, they still owe you.

And then, therefore, you have to hold them accountable. And then you have a hard time letting go of the thing that you think they owe you. Except that this is how she handled it. That can be part of the moving on process. Like, hey, what I want is a considerate person. When we were vibing, when she was getting what she wanted, when she needed, we had good chemistry.

She met my emotional needs. But when things weren't going her way, I couldn't count on her. Being able to count on someone is a big part of a relationship. And being, a big part of being able to count on someone is their willingness to step up when you need them, not just only when they're available. And so you would be better served thinking of the narrative that way rather than I was owed this by her and I still haven't gotten it. So therefore, I need to keep telling myself that she owes me and then stay

emotionally kind of stuck and invested in her are you deliberately messy just so you can come back on the show or i know what is this like the third or fourth time now debbie is a staple of this show for the listeners debbie is the iconic caller that has brought you things like romantic tris basketball makeouts transitioning to dating women yes okay are you still dating women i am dating women primarily okay when we last spoke i was dating a man and a woman and then i leaned into the woman and then we ended things and that was where we left off last time. Okay. Was there advice I offered or?

Yeah. So last time I was all upset how she ended over a voice note. I was really upset. Since it's the first person I felt like I was vulnerable with and like really open and felt this really strong connection. And I learned that she was non-monogamous. That was complicated things for me. And especially with the voice note, you told me not to really overthink it. And I don't need closure.

I can move on on my own. But my brain was telling me I needed closure. So I was trying to reach back out and get that closure. Did you listen to me? Which ultimately did not turn out well. So you didn't take my advice and then reached back out to her correct oh nick's angry no i mean you know but i'm sure life taught you the lesson i was trying to it did it really did you my therapist but i feel like you had a really

i don't know your explanation behind it of telling me not to do it made sense for me. Like when we were talking, I was like, Hey, I'm not going to reach out. I'm going to be fine. But I don't know why I had like a really strong urge to, and then I just kind of called your ego. Yeah. But what did she say? Yeah. So I actually run into her at a queer event in LA. Um, and I was with friends, she was with friends and my friends were like do not even go over there debbie like you could not like do not even engage and you're like fuck this i won't listen to nick my therapist or my friends i sent a text message and i quickly deleted it you know the new feature on the iPhone where you can like delete

messages yes yeah yeah so I unsent it and then it said like this person has unsent the message and I was like you know what like like fuck I did this and she saw it and then she responded to me and saying what did you unsend in my brain was, I don't know what to do. Then she said she saw me. And she said, actually, she said her sister saw me. But if she said she saw me, she would have said hi to me. But we saw each other. So that did not happen. Anyways, I really was like, at this point, missing her and I kind of put it on the table. I'm just like, look, like, I would love to meet up at some point. It was nice to see you even from a distance. And then we basically agreed to meet up, which was not a good idea.

And what happened? We were in contact after that day I saw her at that event. we were in contact after that day I saw her at that event. Um, and it was kind of these like breadcrumbs on both ends, I would say is the best way to put it. Like, I feel like both of us were kind of like leading each other on, if you will,

like mixed messages. Like, I guess we made plans, but then she canceled. Um, to be fair, I'm always the one that's been like reaching out. I've been kind of the more, and she's the one that ended things with me. I would argue that neither of

you were leading each other on. She was operating on the assumption that you understood what she communicated to you earlier, which is she is not monogamous. You were just ignoring yourself and your needs and what you wanted and you were leading yourself on she was you were not also respecting your boundaries that you communicated to yourself about that you were looking for someone who and you want to invest in someone who does want a monogamous relationship so she wasn't leading you on you were just ignoring your boundaries but i was also leading myself on too by doing that. Well, yeah, by ignoring your boundaries, one can do that.

And then you convince yourself and you don't tell yourself, oh, I'm just going to ignore my boundaries. But she wasn't leading you on, to be clear. And you weren't leading her on because she was like, yeah, you want to hang out? Great, sure. That's what non-monogamous people do.

But then I guess like in my head, I was having this false hope by like talking to her still. And, you know, it brought back all these like memories. And I was like really just kind of missing like when we were together. And then we met up in person at a restaurant in West Hollywood. And we did a formal cheese plate situation. It wasn't really a drink. It wasn't really a dinner. It was like, you know, a good mix, middle ground. Some charcuterie.

Which meant what to you? So I knew going into it genuinely that it would be as friends. And we talked about that. Like, that was from her standpoint. And I was actually okay. I like wanted the closure because I felt like the voice note ending was really hard for me. And I wanted just to talk it out. I just like to talk things out. I know. And she's willing to meet with me.

So why not do it, I guess. I know that was a rhetorical question that you asked, but I'll go ahead and answer it anyways. Like, why not? Because you're just torturing yourself which you obviously seem to like you love toxic stimulation i'm learning you really hate being bored and you're a bit dramatic if i'm being honest i've been a bit dramatic but you like a little drama and that's why you ignore the advice of your therapist and a podcast host and your friends, most importantly. Because at the end of the day, you kind of enjoy the drama.

Nick, you're just bashing me now. No, I'm just being that honest friend. You know, if you're going to call, I want to try to offer some perspective. Eventually, someday you will get sick of the drama. And hopefully then you'll remember these conversations. I mean, I am sick of the drama. Like, I genuinely... No, you're not.

There is an aspect of the drama, but I also had real feelings, you know? I don't doubt. Oh, I don't doubt your feelings were real at all. You choose drama over your heart feeling contentment. You know, you choose drama over feeling secure and safe, not feeling confused. And you choose drama over sometimes feeling sad or hurt or let on. Drama is your default. It's not happiness.

It's drama. That's fair. Okay. I need to work on something. I mean, we've all been, I've been there. And you're a smart person and you're humble enough to seek out the advice of people. Like some people aren't even interested in hearing what they might be doing wrong. You just have to get to that next step where you say no to that fix of drama because drama is fun.

It riles you up. It makes you feel alive. Yeah. I feel like dating in LA is very dramatic, though. It's whatever you want to make it. I'm responding to your story, and I'm responding to your story, which is a smart, educated person who is willing to go out and seek the advice from people, and you're willing to listen, which is great. A lot of people don't do that. But you're just like, I'll save that advice for later, But right now, I just want to be dramatic and have fun. Yes, there are a lot of dramatic people in LA.

But you have the option not to give in to that drama. You could have said no to that cheese plate. You knew her feelings weren't going to change. And you just wanted to see her, regardless of how that was going to make you feel in the long run, regardless if that was going to delay your healing process of getting over her, because you did care. And when you care about someone, your feelings don't just go away. You have to grieve a little bit. You have to be sad. You have to process and you have to learn how to say no to yourself and drama. And eventually, you just become indifferent. But it's hard to become indifferent when you keep giving in to the drama.

It's true. But you love it. You're saying with a smile on your face. Okay. Can we go back to the meeting? Can I get your advice? Sure. Yeah.

Um, but something else happened after the fact that I want to get into on the edge of my fricking seat. I think I have a problem where I get too attached to people, like genuinely. Because after this happened, I go on another date with a girl on Hinge

because I wanted to put myself out. After this experience, I was like, I saw my ex and it brought up a lot for me and I'm really trying to move on from this. And I go on a date with someone who's like very attractive.

We go to a date with someone who's like very attractive um we go to a bar um in silver lake and it was great vibes all around and we really got along well um but i stupidly brought up how the last person i was seeing was non-monogamous and how that upset me that she was non-monogamous and apparently this new person got all nervous about that. Why? Assuming because she also was non-monogamous? I think so. Like she's also seeing other people.

So that's not stupidly. Yeah, I don't think it's stupid to say something that's bothered you in the past that you don't want to get. Why are you dating? Because I want to find my person. Genuinely. I'm at a point in my life where I have a great career, I have great friends, family, but I'm missing a partner. Your actions do not say that you are genuinely looking for someone.

I am, though. I genuinely, and I feel like I haven't connected with my exes before because they've been primarily men, and I've learned that I am. Why do you regret finding out on a first date that someone wants to be non-monogamous? Why do you regret finding out on a first date that someone is not compatible with what you're looking for? Why would that ever be a regret? Because there's more to the first date.

I guess I skipped over myself. But it doesn't matter. It does though. No, do you know what a non-negotiable is? Yeah. What is it? It's a does though. No, do you know what a non-negotiable is? Yeah. What is it? It's a deal breaker. Yeah, right?

I'm assuming that you can't say that you are looking for your person and serious about settling down and want to invest in people who are not looking for the same thing. And when I say it doesn't matter is that there are so many people out there that we can be compatible with, have chemistry with, like. I have no doubt that you kept hanging out

with this person and you're going to tell me that you guys had a great night and had fun and kissed or whatever or felt this or felt that or it doesn't matter if she's not looking for the same thing that you're looking for. If you're going to tell yourself that you are ready, you're at the point in your life where everything else seems generally figured out and that you are really ready for a committed relationship, then you have to know what that relationship looks like. You have to have your non-negotiables of things that despite meeting someone and despite being attracted to them and thinking they're great and charming, that if they demonstrate a non-negotiable to you, that as disappointing as it might be, it's time to move on. Yeah. No, you're right.

I think you just romanticize things and you love the drama. You don't respect your own boundaries. You don't even try to set boundaries. And when you do try to set boundaries, you just plow right through them. Do you want to hear the drama, speaking of the drama? If you really want to set boundaries you just plow right through them you know do you want to hear that do you want to hear the drama speaking of the drama if you really want to share please no i just need like like i feel like because of what happened i feel like been more emotionally connected to her so basically on our day i fainted it doesn't matter on our first day at this restaurant okay no joke like fell on the ground she gave you water unconscious i have low blood pressure oh um and i saw taylor swift the day before so the taylor concert was really

this is like not a figure of speech you actually like hit the deck people faint i hit the deck okay i understand i'm a fainter myself all right so you fainted she was your caretaker she's my caretaker i hit my head i'm still concussed yeah so i had a concussion from this night and she was your caretaker she's my caretaker i hit my head i'm still concussed yeah so i had a concussion from this night and she was such a good person really was helpful was really nice and just like a really genuine person and i felt like that kind of caretaking like capabilities made me like you know what i I heard? She's not a sociopath. No, but also it is easy to get swept up in moments like that because they don't always happen all the time. We know it's easy for her to get swept up in literally any moment.

I'm just saying I literally was thinking last night about a moment where I sat up in bed and a guy was like, are you OK? And that happened a year ago. So that was what was keeping me up at night. I hear you. They're nice moments. It's nice to have those. I'm not saying that. You're saying like you fainted and she gave a shit.

You know, like. I know. I really low standards. Clearly, I need to work on that. And no boundaries, apparently, too. You just like drama because you fainting and her saving you is dramatic. And you like telling the story. I think it's just challenging yourself

not to let like the fainting and the cute moments and the good parts that you see outweigh the fundamental issue of the fact that you guys want such different things and you're dating to find your end goal and your end goals are vastly different yeah and i worry if you keep if if if you don't you know kind of get to the root of this drama because no judgment here. I was the exact same way. And then I got into a relationship where there wasn't any drama. And I thought that was a bad thing. But it wasn't obviously like I worry you're going to find the person who theoretically is perfect for you. And you're going to be bored and you're going to mistake that for an issue in the relationship when it is you'll mistake it for a lack of passion so how do you know passion versus drama like what is the difference well when someone says i'm not looking for a relationship exclusively and you are and you ignore that drama so how do you know know what your non-negotiables are what are your boundaries? What are your actual goals? Write it down. What am I actually looking for? Be honest with yourself.

How do I get what I'm looking for? Well, those are your boundaries. What am I going to limit myself? What are my bad habits? What do I need to say no to? What are your non-negotiables? And when you hear someone communicating non-negotiable, then you need to enforce that boundary and you have to stop ignoring yourself. And when you ignore a boundary, you're doing it for the drama because ignoring your boundaries tend to cause drama. And you need to start valuing things like feeling loved, feeling heard. You need to prioritize compatibility, wanting the same thing. So on the first date, do I just ask, are you monogamous? Is that like a weird question to ask? I don't think you can come out of the gate strong, but yeah. What are you looking for?

What's your end goal? Why are you on the app? What's your end goal? Listen, that's why I say, you should be happy on the first date you found out. You might not always find that out on the first date. It might take you to a third date because you don't want to be like on a first date, like just interviewing the shit of them. I mean, it's a little bit of an interview, but like you don't want to bring in every bad date up into this date and be like, well, this is what I found on another first date.

So again, when you find out on a first date, a non-negotiable, that's a blessing. It's not a fucking dare. So do I end it right then and there? Like if you, if I find out something. You're going to have a good time. You're going to have some self-control. You'll be like, well, that's a blessing it's not a fucking dare so do i end it right then and there like if you if i find out you're gonna have a good time if you have some self-control you'll be like well that's too bad i'm very much looking for a committed relationship and i obviously that's going to take time and i need to get to know someone but if you already know you're not then let's just enjoy tonight and call it a day, people are very attracted to people who can demonstrate self-control. You can't. Got it. And when you... No, that's hard to hear, but I think it is real.

And you give away your power by doing so. Because not having self-control is an example of someone who's not good at maintaining their power. They don't have conviction. They don't say what they mean. And it's a sign of being dramatic. And at times that lack of self-control makes it too easy for people to get what they want with you. You give them all this power. They feel that power. I think if you could learn self-control and I think if you could get better at setting your boundaries and respecting your boundaries and demonstrating self-control and communicating your boundaries up front and just being very calm while you do it, I think your dating life would drastically change. In terms of non-negotiables though, I guess like non-monogamy is different from dating around.

That's not. Like some people are just non-monogamous, like have that mindset. No. I mean, listen, some people will say I'm looking for a relationship and not mean it, but plenty of people will just be honest. I'm not looking for an exclusive relationship. You claim that that's what you want and you shouldn't be fucking with people who say that they're not because they're not lying and they're not looking to be convinced and they're not looking for you to change them. You know, and you don't get awarded more points by changing them.

It doesn't make you more special. It doesn't make your relationship more romantic. It does make for a better story, which is you're a sucker for. This is hard to hear, but important. It's okay. I mean, you're still, you're clearly can get dates. You clearly can go out. Like meeting people is not a hard you know but it's yeah it's some tough love for sure i mean meeting quality people is tough if you know anyone who's called

into your show i mean i love that you're calling in all jokes aside but if you are going to call in multiple times and not learn from our discussions i'm going to give you tough love i need the tough love though and hopefully this will stick with me this time i think it's also it's just a numbers game. Like as someone who's also dating in L.A., you're going to go on a lot of dates that aren't going to go anywhere. And I think maybe just like where the not even issue, because I don't want to call it a problem, but I think maybe one of the reasons you feel so exhausted and like it's hopeless is that you're not having like one good date establishing, OK, we want different things. Let's like finish our drinks. Wish you best. Goodbye. Because it's like I've had several of those and you don't really think about those people. You don't have these like lingering

emotions. It doesn't feel like this dramatic thing because you're like, great, on to the next. I think maybe what's making it seem more and more impossible is that you're keeping these people in your life. You're thinking about these moments, you're trying to convince yourself and them that you can make it work. And I think if you just had quicker, just like coffee dates, Zoom dates, like the amount of Zoom dates I've gone on where I'm like, yeah, I was right about this guy. Like it's not going anywhere. Wish you the best. Bezu, bezu. Like on to the next. I think the quicker you can get and you get better at it as it goes on. And then it becomes more of like a game of numbers as opposed to you taking it personally and feeling like it's there's something wrong with you or there's something

wrong with the city or that's impossible yeah i'd also say like if you feel unsure about someone when you first meet them that might actually be a good thing for you like try and go for a slow burn you know you don't need to like have fireworks on the first date i feel like that is sometimes a bad thing because if it starts up here the only place it can go is down versus if it starts you know kind of in the middle the only place it can go is up you should basically hate the person you're gonna end up with yeah you should think they're gross and annoying you should be so bored no but there's some yeah i mean they mean, fuck the spark, as they say sometimes. The spark, Nick,

like you're talking about, is what I'm attracted to. Like that drama, like that passion. Well. And I think you can build that with the right person. Self-awareness is key. Yeah. If you start off with that, I'm with Genevieve, it's really hard to maintain that, and also you don't know a ton about that person. No, or the right person will, you know,

will give you the spark right way but also meet some of your boundaries and non-negotiables and blah blah all those buzzwords we've talked about but you know if you're willing to be patient you can in quote unquote have it all so to speak but you know you also just recently started women maybe you're just in more of a transitional period than you want to accept no i feel like this feels more right for me. Like genuinely, not like in a dramatic kind of way. Stop dramatizing your story. I do want to keep texting her.

But you don't want the same thing. But that's the thing. It's like, then you won't be ready for the next one. And you're just going to feel these lingering. You're just going to have this attachment. You know what's fun? As someone who loves to like talk about like dramatic things, when I can like run Genevieve through a list of like.

So I went on one date with this person. This is what happened. It was crazy. Bye. And it's like you can still have that fun of like, well, that was a failed date. But it's just that one time. He didn't become this like long lasting thing that I was in the weeds of. You can still talk about how crazy and wild and upsetting dating in L.A. can be.

They can be little nuggets of it as opposed to what you're experiencing right now. You're saying you should talk to her? No. I'm saying you can have this amazing date, talk about how you fainted, be like oh, tragic, we didn't want the same thing. Moving on. It can still be a story. It can be a chapter. You're making it a whole book.

I don't think she should be telling her stories. I think she's i'm just a kick no i mean i'm not a kid i i think you in particular are love drama obsessed with it you're addicted to it and you need to like fucking adjust and i think you should actually practice not sharing your dramatic stories because it's your ability to tell the story that keeps you addicted to it. It's the payoff. If you have no one listening to your stories, there's no reason to experience the drama. So maybe don't release this episode then. No, we'll definitely do that. Some good nuggets in here.

Debbie. Don't do it to us debbie listen we're glad you called in and yeah it's great for us but you know it's all getting burned if you really want to love you debbie's not getting burned because like i've been there i feel very like we've all fallen into these traps before this is not us being like we're perfect you're wrong this is us being like girl we're perfect. You're wrong. This is us being like, girl, we have been there. Absolutely. We'll help you out of the trench.

You got to help yourself. Yeah. Nick, you're hard on me today. You're making it easy. Oh, this is the thing. I don't respect my own boundaries.

I got to change the power dynamic. And the reason I'm, I honestly, the reason I'm being some, I'm trying to find the thing that actually makes you want to give a shit about doing things differently because right now you're having a bit of fun like arguing with me and playing with us and we're all having a good time on this

call but if you are in fact serious about meeting someone something's going to have to wake you up so what's my first step what do you think I have the awareness i do have the awareness what do you think put it into fruition which is the hard part for me because i feel like when someone texts me i want to respond like immediately well what you want in the moment

often is what you is is often not what you need in the long term so you have to demonstrate self control and you have to know that your immediate needs are often not your long-term needs. And you would have to get good at saying no to yourself. You have to demonstrate self-control. So demonstrate some self-control, give yourself some tough love and ask yourself, and like, I don't know. I mean, I don't know if you're happy. You seem like a generally happy person. You have a good spirit about you. And that's maybe because that's the thing. Maybe you aren't really looking for someone serious. Maybe it's just fun for you to say. Maybe that's part of you being dramatic. I don't know. Because you do generally seem happy.

And at the end of the day, you'll just decide my choices aren't making me happy. I'm actually going to do something different. You haven't reached that point clearly because i do think you have fun being dramatic and i do think it at least temporarily is getting you by the texter i'm just kidding do not do that i don't really care but someday when you are actually serious about meeting someone you will have to implement these changes because i can confidently say you won't until you do the drama is easier for me though than the painful feelings of like grieving and moving on from it like i'd rather talk about like it's not easy to say it's not easy to demonstrate self-control what's why it's called control it's like you're i i feel like a lot of people think that way too like

the thought of having a lot of pain right now is harder than a little bit of pain parceled out but that's not the case at all like it's one tough week of getting over this rather than like six months of stringing yourself along in this torture so I'm saying make it a chapter, not a book. I love that. So do I unfollow her? Yes. The original person. The one from the cheese board date.

It depends on you. It sounds like probably yes, because that would help with your lack of self-control. Start by muting her. Well, you've even said, I can't be friends. I was sitting there wanting more. That's not fair to you. that's hurtful to you and it might seem like oh it's like i'll keep her in my life and everything will be fine but overall it's just gonna keep hurting you even if it feels good in the moment amanda used the metaphor it's like picking at a scab like it feels really good to itch but like it's never gonna fully heal i love a scab oh same picking one yeah not emotionally we're not gonna do that divvy all right well godspeed

you can only come back on if you have a story of self-control they're being serious and i love talking to you but you don't get to come back on to be like i have another dramatic story in another example in which I ignored my needs and then ask me advice. I'm going to give you the same answer. So then what's the reason to come on? I feel like I've turned my life around. Implementing something that you learned and having success from it and feeling good about it and then sharing a best practice

and taking a step in the right direction and demonstrating your actual consideration and self-love for yourself and feeling good about it. Rather than calling up and be like, I have another messy story. Oh my God, I was dramatic. It's fun to share. Because right now, honestly,

I feel like we are feeding into your obsession with telling dramatic stories. And so as much as they're entertaining for us, I'm selflessly going to set a boundary with you. This is me being selfless because I care about you so much. Debbie's drama. Nick, I'm trying not to feed into the drama it just it's a part of me you're not remotely trying at all you're putting zero effort in okay i'm gonna put effort in i'm gonna come back and change my life around it'll be great well you don't have to change your life around again you seem like you're a well life i i don't i don't be honest with you i don't know if you're actually serious about meeting someone the only thing i genuinely the only thing i know for sure is that you are obsessed with drama and your obsession with drama i think

stops you from really being honest with yourself and if you can't be honest with yourself then it's hard to know what you really want and need and usually you will find out what you really want based off of your actions not what you say your actions say that it's not that serious that you don't really want it. Because you don't sound depressed. You're not calling out just... I mean, we've talked to a lot of people who are genuinely bummed and down in their dumps

and just sad they haven't met someone and tired of their crappy days. You're calling up every day and be like, I met someone new again, and they're vibing out and they're fun. And she's, you know, like, that's not how you sound. So maybe you don't really want it I don't know but you do love drama. No I do

I'm just not finding the right people is the thing. Everyone meets a bunch of wrong people before they meet the right one you're not you're not different than anyone else that's not your problem because we all meet the wrong people all the time your problem is as we discussed.

Okay. Well, I'm going to have boundaries. I'm going to go on these apps and add monogamy to my profile and be intentional. There you go. We look forward to a progress report. A progress report. Okay. Take care, Debbie. Thank you for joining us, Debbie. Bye, Debbie. Bye. Bye. Well, thanks for listening, guys. Hope you enjoyed that update special. Don't forget, if you love these updates,

there are so many more available to you behind Vile Files Plus. Just go to vilefiles.com to sign up for Vile Files Plus. It's free to sign up. You get a seven-day free trial. So if you're missing out, you know where to find more. We'll see you next time. Bye.