The Viall Files - E635 Reality Recap with Annnexmp: The Ultimatum Season 2, Joe and Sophie’s Divorce, and Kylie and Timothee PDA

Episode Date: September 6, 2023

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Reality Recap Edition! Today we are joined by TikTok’s big sister Annnexmp and our Pop Culture Correspondent Natalie Joy to break down our favorite reality shows and dive into pop culture’s biggest headlines. We discuss The Ultimatum Season 2 - how it compared to Season 1, who should have gotten engaged, and who would have been better walking away. We also touch on topics such as Kylie and Timothee concert PDA, Kevin Costner’s divorce, and if Joe and Sophie are filing for divorce.  “I think my most repetitive mistake is thinking that I’m not worthy.”  Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes. Join us for our new LIVE show on Thursdays at 9PM ET/6PM PT on Amp, available in the Apple app store. Android User? Listen here: https://www.onamp.com/   To Order Nick’s Book Go To: http://www.viallfiles.com  If you would like to get some texting advice on Office Hours send an email to [e-mail] with “Texting Office Hours” in the subject line! To advertise on the show, contact [e-mail] or visit https://www.advertisecast.com/TheViallFiles  THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Grammarly - Go to https://www.Grammarly.com/GO to download for FREE today. Article - Article is offering $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more by visiting https://www.Article.com/VIALL  Care/Of - For 50% off your first Care/of order, go to https://www.TakeCareOf.com and enter code viall50.  Drizly - Download the Drizly app or go to https://www.Drizly.com  Nutrafol - Nutrafol is offering our listeners $10 off your first month’s subscription and free shipping when you visit https://www.Nutrafol.com and enter code THEVIALLFILES.  Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @nnataliejjoy @[e-mail] @dereklanerussell @genevievegoodman 

you're crazy what's going on everybody welcome back to another episode of the vile files reality recap edition i'm your host nick joined by the household of ally genevieve and derrick where's where the fuck's amanda today she in ireland or something right she was doing spain and ireland she had there was a wedding in spain and a family trip to ireland yeah i think she's going to like the ireland grandparents or something yeah anyway she's not here her pop culture correspondent nally joy also joins us how you doing you doing? Yeah, I'm doing great. Here with baby.

Here we go. And our special guest for today, the one and only, she just goes by her first name, Jealous. And your big sister on TikTok is here. And how are you doing? I'm doing great. What was the reasoning for the first name only? I only asked this because, did you not like your last name? Or is it the anonymity?

I don't like my last name and I decided to make it the title of my show. Because I went to school to be a teacher. Okay. So personally, if I were to go back into a district and want to work with the kids again, I would much rather not have people know my last name just for that reason. But you're like, you have 7 million followers on TikTok now. When I first made that decision. You're more famous than you realize. Yeah. I'm very grateful, but I would like to say when people are like, oh, you're an influencer.

Oh, you're a content creator. I'm like, I'm Anne. I'm from the Bay Area and I like dogs. So I don't really. But you also have a new book out. Is it out yet? It is out. It is out. Finding Your Person, even if it's you. And we'll get into Anne's book in a moment. But we have because we have so much to talk about. A lot's been going on over the past week. We'll be talking Ultimatum today. What a wild and wacky. Also, like, why did they just drop everything all at once? It was in two batches. Honestly, I feel like this season, season two, would have been really, really interesting if Brian and Lisa stayed. If I can just bring that up.

That's, well, yeah. I'm sorry. Unfortunately, they got each other pregnant. Unfortunately. For us. Also, they got each other pregnant, not she. Brian is also expecting. Like Nick.

Nick is also expecting. We are pregnant. Also, that fight with the slap and the end of the parking lot, it was fireworks. That was upsetting. Yeah, that was gnarly. I don't blame her though because I feel like obviously it's like the first

night. So she couldn't really anticipate that Brian would already start really trying to get into the experience if that makes sense right because she was very standoffish she was like i understand why we're here and i want to try this because she was the one that won that gave him the ultimatum yeah i'm not quite sure how the casting process works i am kind of fascinated about that because i don't feel like it's these people submitting i guess like a ask nick where they email in and be like hey i got this problem and can you help

me and we're like oh sure can you want to come on if it's a mediation we'll see if their partner wants to come i don't feel like it's that i feel like a casting finds these couples and then they're like who wants to issue the ultimatum? How do they find them? I think April was just like, yeah, they found us on Instagram. Yeah, IGDM. I remember that. Yeah.

So what, they go through an Instagram profile, and they're like, yeah. They look miserable. It's been seven years, and I don't see a ring. Maybe. This is perfect. They look unstable. That's crazy. Well, I mean, also, I'm sure the first season of casting is different than any subsequent season because it's new and I think they kind of have to grind it out a little bit. Interested couples who wish to be a part of this show can visit the official website to

apply for the upcoming season and be a part of it. So I guess either you're found or you apply. for the upcoming season and be a part of it. So I guess either you're found or you apply. Well, before we get into Ultimatum, what else we got going on in this crazy, wacky world? Other than, how did Timothee Chalamet end up at the, well, I guess we could have.

No, yeah, we. You saw him, didn't you? How certain were you that you saw Timothee Chalamet? It looked just like him in New York. It looked just like him on a bike. He'd be around New York a lot. I saw him in New York. When he was dating him on a bike. He'd be around New York a lot. I saw him in New York. When he was dating Lily Rose Depp, I was crossing the street,

and all of a sudden, all of these girls are in front of me like, and I'm like, what is happening? And it's him. We'd been kind of talking about this, that it was kind of easy to like, you know, turn a blind eye and be like, I doubt it's real.

How could this be real? We talked about this on Pop. I said there's no way that they're dating. But now they are missing. Why did you think it's not real? I also,'s bonkers yeah absolutely bonkers they look super happy as long as they're happy no honestly i'm here for it yeah i you know like she struggled with i think her baby daddy travis yep and her ex and I think this is probably a very fresh start for her. And I'm sure it feels good. I agree.

Do you think Timothy is a good boyfriend? I think he's a great boyfriend. I think he's so kind and sweet and a listener. What do we think of the smoking? Where he's like holding the cig? He's holding a cig at a Beyonce concert? Even allowed? He is smoking.

But like, he's just like puffing and puffing. It's like part of his... Ew, yeah. It looks like it's part of puffing and puffing it's like part of his yeah it looks like it's part of his outfit it's an accessory kind of that would honestly piss me off that like nick and i were in new york and we went to time square to see his billboard because he had a billboard for the show and i quick backstory used to live live in New York at like 15, became really good friends with street dancers, street performers. And they were still there. What? It's been like 10 years.

We said hello. Oh, my God. We're looking at the billboard and I look over and I recognize the music. It's the exact same routine. They have not changed a thing. And so we go over there i'm like we have to watch we have to watch it that's true it's timeless yeah people are coming from all over the world how do you don't fix what ain't broke you know how often you need to

that's true imagine someone goes home they talk about it they talk about their routine someone goes back they've changed it how disappointing yeah you're like hey you gotta go see this show in times square people fly people were like in times square they're like we're like hey you gotta go see this show in Times Square people were like in Times Square they were like from Kuwait and you know Istanbul Nick learned this because he got pulled into the middle of, he was part of the

routine. Is there a video of this? I think I have one yeah no but they were gonna jump over him but they wanted they were asking for $20 from each, the seven people that they pulled out of the crowd. So not only do you have to subject your life, you also have to pay for them to potentially wound you?

You have to donate. Yeah. To keep yourself safe is what they called it. A little scary. But they called Nick out and I was like, uh-uh, they got money from everyone. Wait, is it like one of those Vegas things where if they're in a costume and they kind of pull you over for a picture, you have to pay them? Is it like that? No, it's close.

I mean, kind of. Similar vibes. Yeah, because there's like a big crowd around you and you feel obligated. Where they hand you the thing first and then tell you they owe you? Yeah. No, it's not quite like that. No? I mean, they're grinding.

They are putting on a performance. There's a massive crowd. There is like... And fairness to them, they... Yes, there's all these people watching them and they're kind of like,

hey, we're street performers. Yeah. Like, we don't do this for free. They do it in a very fun and entertaining way. But they grind. Yeah.

For sure. Well, but it also takes them like an hour and a half to finally make the jump, right? No, I think that's definitely not an hour and a half. But it takes so long. That's, I think that's just a new girl. Definitely not an hour and a half. That's just a new girl where they're trying to make money to get on the train.

When they're like stalling. Okay, everybody. And that's the one with the crossover with Brooklyn Nine-Nine. Yeah. So Boyle was there with his son. And he was like, show us. Do you remember that? And then the train gets delayed and they're like, we have to do something.

I love that you brought up New Girl. Thank you. I i need to watch new girl because ali talks about it all the time you've never seen you girl derrick saw schmidt i saw schmidt uh this this last weekend at the malibu chili cook-off along with a bunch of other celebrities but yeah um malibu chili cook-off yeah did you make any chili no but i ate some how did you end up at the Malibu Chili Cook-Off? Well, it's really cool. It's like a local event. It's like a little fair. They donate all the proceeds to the Boys and Girls Club, which is awesome. Was Brian Baumgartner there?

No. You would have thought Kevin from The Office. You know, the big chili? Yes, I did hear that. Oh my god. I smelled it. They had an actor from Yellowstone there. Kevin Costner? No, I wish. Nice segue.

And were there a lot of winners? There was only one winner. There was only one winner. Holy shit. Universal Music Group pulled up and they won. Ugh. They won? Not like the little man?

That's so disappointing. Like a famous person won? I mean, last year, they have all the restaurants in Malibu. They all try to make chili and stuff. So like Duke's, if you're familiar with that, they made chili. So it's kind of like a bunch of restaurants go in. They all try to make different kinds. Local stuff.

A restaurant didn't even win? Universal Music Group won? I'm so confused. How do they know how to do that? Don't they only know how to do music? Who taught them how to do that? I don't know. Chili? That's not their thing. use how do they know how to do that don't they only know how to do music who taught them how to do that i don't know chili guys why is no one else talk that universal music group won this because

i don't even know who universal music group is they make music yeah they also cook food on their like universal like i was just about to say that but then why wasn't it awarded to the man who happens to work at universal group why wasn't why didn't it awarded to the man who happens to work at Universal Group? Why didn't he win? Like the company? Yeah, I'm sure it was people that were represented by the company. So it was like a group of people. Derek seems really nervous. Like he doesn't have the answers for you, Jen.

I'm just confused. I just don't know. Like the man. You seem so heartbroken over it. I hate that. So how many people tasted the chili and how many people were actually involved? So it was like tables of judges. So it's a multi-day thing, but on one of the days they have the judging.

So it's a bunch of judges come through. Are they celebrity judges? It's the people's choice. Next year it's going to be Ann and Nick just tasting a bunch of chili. I am shocked that Brian Bromberter is part of it. Maybe he was there in the past. But one year I went and I met Dick Van Dyke and he was very nice. So a lot of celebrity, it's like the low-key celebrity spot.

I don't want to spoil it, but yeah, a lot of celebrities pull up. Circling back to my story. So the reason I brought up Nick being pulled into that thing is because it tied to Timothee Chalamet smoking the cigarette with all those people. Because we're standing there and this man, it's a massive crowd of people. We're all close together. And he just lights up a cigarette and starts blowing. And I turned to him and I said,

can you not? And he was like, sorry. I saw her do that. And put it out and then dropped it on the ground. I'm sure Timothee Chalamet is surrounded by all of these people

who don't want cigarette smoke in their face. That is foul. It smells so bad. Derek brought up Yellowstone and our favorite man to cover has been Kevin Costner and his divorce. I love him. She really sounds awful.

Do we think she's as awful as she sounds? Or does Kevin just have the charm and the PR team? Because it seems like she's really bad at court. Yes. She keeps asking for more. Well, that's her lawyers. And she keeps getting less. That's her lawyers. I think Kevin Costner has like what the best

like divorce attorney. He's been very good at divorce. Well, I don't know. It depends because he's lost a lot of money in divorce. How many divorces have Kevin Costner? This is his third marriage. So he's been learning from them. He's been improving upon the past divorces. And she was getting $131,000 a month.

She asked for $30,000 more because she said her children have luxury in their DNA. Oh. And they need to still continue that and she doesn't want to rock their world with declining that. Anyways, she ends up, the judge rules, she gets now $60, 60 000 a month so she lost so much money then how is she affording this 40 000 a month rental home in montecito because that because just a guess well one she's getting 60 so now she's got 20k left over that's not enough they have luxury in their dna yeah yeah also she they did sign some sort of prenup which she is getting some kind of money outside of this child support the child

support and then like whatever she got in the divorce per their like prenup or something because there is a prenup and they you know and she's not like the prenup i'm assuming isn't like you get nothing she gets something but this is in addition to whatever she's gotten so she's gonna like i see be fine she's not too thrilled about the house though she complained that while her rental does come with a pool house and guest accommodations what visitors would have to come into the main house to use the shower you're kidding you're kidding but man the media is she's this is she this bad and out of touch can you imagine her every morning waking up to these articles i just can't imagine she's

like this four bedroom property sits on an acre of land and features a pool jacuzzi and manicured gardens that leads to a wooded hiking trail sounds pretty nice but oh no her sons would have to share a bathroom while her daughter grace would share hers with the house. I don't know what that means. Like it's not an en suite? No, it means it's not an en suite. Is it like a restroom where it's kind of like if there's guests, they can have to use her restroom basically.

Like it'd be in the hallway. Wow. That's awful. I know nothing about this. So hearing this now, I'm just distraught. It's been a really bad summer for her yeah but apparently at the courthouse he was asked if he still loves her and he said yes do you think that that's like like we were talking about gwyneth paltrow as she was leaving her you know skiing

case after she won she whispered to the man and said i wish you well do you think it's like that kind of thing it's like of course i still have love for her like i'm i'm so high up on my high horse he was married to her for 18 years 18 years and they do have three children together so yeah i don't think it's the same as the guy in court for gwen that being said i think kevin's a professional i think it's just like it's a great last word It behooves him to remain positive to the public, regardless of how he really feels about her. Yes. Do you think she's as messy as she's coming across? Or do you think Kevin is just clever enough? I mean, I think she's messy.

I think the stuff that... His team isn't making up these words about her saying they have luxury in their DNA. That's true. That's her team. That's her team. That's her lawyer. And Kevin has nothing to do with her vacationing with his friend in Hawaii. True. On the beach.

Displacing their stuff. Or her hiring a moving company to move across the yard. Did you hear about that one? No. Please explain. She moved to the pool house. No, where their staff lived. Oh, she displaced the staff. Oh, she displaced the staff.

Yeah, she displaced the staff. So she could still live there, but then hire a moving company. Yes. I mean, she's not going to lift it. There was a U-Haul outside of the house and they were like, where are you going? How far was it?

I'm sure Kevin's not helping either, you know? She probably was like, fuck it, I need some help. The moving company makes sense. It's displacing the staff. Yeah, you can't be here anymore. Sorry. Yeah, I feel like the only like negative, semi-negative article about him was like he sports his new car and like it was a picture of like an older car covered in mud. But he's gotten all this great press.

As he should. I still think that was like painted kind of well because it was like Kevin Costner is not even worried. You know, he is in his car. This woman's complaining about all the money he needs. Whereas Kevin Costner, who's like much more famous and probably used to wealth than she is, is in a dirty car and he looks happy. You know, like that's how the article kind of came across to me. You know, he has what, nine kids or something?

Eight kids? How many does he have? He's had one from each marriage. How old is he? He's 68. Seven children. 68. 68, seven children.

So if he marries, how old is she? She's 40 something. children. 68. 68, seven children. Sophie marries a, how old is she? She's 40 something, I want to say. But I don't know. Like if I were single and Kevin Costner like asked me on a date, I'd go. Like he's handsome. Do it for the plot. Yeah. He's handsome.

For 68, he is handsome. Super handsome. Daddy. I would pass on that. You'd pass. I would pass. What is your celebrity crush? Just kidding.

My celebrity crush? It's going to sound really bad, but I'm going to stick by it. I'm a Belieber, so I love Justin Bieber. What are they wrong with? You could do worse by one and a half seconds. Did you hear the rumor that they're going to announce their divorce soon? Yes. Because of the green card.

Yeah. Yeah. They're going to what? I believe it, Anne. Yeah, do you believe it? They're going to announce what? Okay, so he got a DUI years and years ago and he's not an American. He was born in Canada.

I'm aware. And so there's like some law that you can't apply for your visa if you've gotten in a DUI. But like the workaround is that you can be married to an American citizen for five years and then you can apply for that. And their five year mark is coming up and so people think they're going to get divorced right after that because people think like he got the dui then he got back together with selena people think that was because

he wanted to get married to her she probably realized that's what he was doing and then he got engaged to hayley bieber like two months really fast yeah it was very fast yeah i believe it to be honest it's just crazy to me because when you think about it you've lost our credibility because you want to date him listen i wouldn't date him but he is a crush you wouldn't date him i wouldn't date him there's a difference you can definitely with hayley bieber i genuinely feel like calls up let's be friends i'm cool but we don't i don't think we'd vibe really you wouldn't even try it out no listen that's too much pressure i would i refuse to put myself in that position justin

bieber is highly looked at the same way kevin is right don't put me in that position i'm trying to stay in my bubble like that's just me personally because if you want to be a teacher again uh you know i thought about it I really really thought about it your kids would think you're so cool so cool you'd be like Miss Ann dated Justin Bieber so wait we believe this silly conspiracy theory

this is my opinion and I think this is why I stand by the conspiracy theory Haley and Justin although like they look cute together take a picture of them they look like a beautiful couple yes but I just don't think there's well obviously we don't see everything but I just don't think that there's this emotional connection that we all see in the public eye and maybe that's on them maybe they really just want to keep it private which I completely get i think it was a bit disrespectful for him to show up to her

road event in sweats and like looking like a complete clown yep and then they go to the u.s open a few days later and he's in a great outfit he looks so good we have those silly glasses on yeah he could have worn that to her event see See, that's what I'm saying. Wait, that was a great outfit? Things like that. He was in jeans and he was dressed up. He put on- No, there you go. He was like, that was for her event. This is rude. I feel like he wasn't even wearing a shirt under that.

He's got yellow Crocs, a pink hat. Okay. And then what was the other- At the US Open. He does look very silly at the US Open, though. I think that's an outfit, though. That's him trying. It's simply not sweatpants.

I feel like he looks better in the sweatpants. What? He's wearing jeans, a leather jacket. Well, you're right. At least he's trying. He's trying. And they are matching. Sneakers.

He tied his shoes. That's true. He tied his shoes. He slipped on Crocs for her launch of her event. And for the U.S. Open, he put on an outfit. Okay. For her event, they're not even matching whatsoever. No.

But then he tried. You can tell he tried on the other one because they're wearing leather jackets. Look at all these different times that they've been in different outfits. And see, that's what I'm saying. That's why I'm saying maybe they don't hate each other. They don't last. I just think if I were Hailey, I would feel like a little, you know, before we left the house, I probably would have been like, are you for real? Like, that's what you're going to wear?

Like, let's collaborate. Let's match a little bit. But it's also a sign of respect for it being her business and her launch as well. It's not just any event. It's do you not realize how important this is to me? Like, if you started a brand and Nick comes out of the bedroom and he's dressed in Crocs. I'd be like, babe, you've seen how hard I worked on this. Why are you not showing that? Yeah.

Yeah. There's definitely a level of it's not important to me. Energy. I think that they are very a very strong couple. Yeah. They've been through a lot. I'm a believer. I believe that.

Yeah. Listen, she obviously has a privileged life. But I do feel like it's it's been tough to be haley bieber and to be worth it to be the the spouse of justin bieber i don't think it was ever going to be easy for anyone and you have like fans of selena gomez who are just bullies to hley. And it's not because of Selena. It's just because the fans still can't get over that Selena and Justin aren't together. This is not to say that Hayley hasn't made, I don't know. I don't know what mistakes she's made. I'm sure she's made plenty of mistakes, but she's constantly under a microscope. I think it seems like from afar that the criticism that she has received has unified

the two you know it's like brought them together like he's clearly i don't know i i get the impression that it's been good for them because they've been a team and they've had each other's back through these these moments and if justin's gonna marry someone just for a green card or i just feel like there's other i don't know i just don't feel like she's i to marry someone just for a green card or the right, I just feel like there's other. I don't know. I just don't feel like she's. I don't know. I don't buy it.

I'm with Natalie. I believe in their love. What if they started off that way, though? What if they were like, maybe this is for that. But then they grew together like an arranged marriage that turned out that turned out. Yeah. Like a PR couple. Right.

Because they've definitely gone through a lot, like you said. And i i agree and so what if throughout that they really did just grow i mean i'm i'm thinking about the green card i'm like is that real or is that not real so what would have happened if he not got the green card he would have just live in canada or yeah right yeah we just have to go back you know the pandemic like opened up the whole like you can be anywhere but i i feel like when he was coming up he definitely needed to be in the u.s in la you know the pandemic like opened up the whole like you can be anywhere but i i feel like when he was coming up he definitely needed to be in the u.s in l.a you know speaking of divorce oh joe and sophie yeah this i don't believe i don't believe with my entire being why don't you believe it because one i love them two all right oh right. Case closed. Yeah. Two. Done. He was wearing his ring

at the concert the day after these rumors circulated and she was there. But unlike... No, she wasn't. No, she wasn't. I was listening to the radio on the way to work today

and it was at this concert. Everyone's saying Sophie was there. This, one of the people who works on the Ryan Seacrest show, her friend was there and she was saying no, it was actually like a staffer.

It was someone who was working at the concert. She was bringing food and stuff to like priyanka and like the jo like papa jonas so like she was around that same area she looked really similar to her but it wasn't her i didn't think it was her either but i also just was like i don't know maybe i don't know sophie turner i met her once at a dodger game how How was that? Delightful. She was with Joe. She turned around and waved. She's a Basher fan. So I was like, and one of those moments where I thought it was maybe someone behind me. Because at the Dodger game, there's a lot of famous people.

So I thought there was no way Sophie Turner was turning around and waving at me. Waving at you. Very nice. So we're supposed to know that this is. And then what, puts it on now? Okay. Then all the rumors come out and

he's like oh let me put it back on and on his Instagram story I saw that why though yeah why would he put on his Instagram story him wearing

his ring just like why weren't you no no no just a photo of him but you could tell that he had his ring on I mean listen I don't know

fuck I mean divorce is hard and scary and it's like a process it's like a process. It's not like breaking up with your high school sweetheart, which also sucks. They have kids. Kids is a plural. Two kids together.

And with the reports that are out there, like this doesn't actually get leaked. The headlines are that Joe is taking care of his kids on his own while Sophie is nowhere to be found. That's how it reads, right? It did say that he was like the sole provider of the kids recently. And so- And they were like on tour with him.

That's not an accident that these reports are getting out. And I don't know who they're coming from, but they're coming from someone close to the bubble probably. Right, because they said that he hired a lawyer. That's hard to lie about. You can probably fact check that pretty easily. And just because you hire a divorce lawyer doesn't necessarily mean you get divorced,

but when kids are involved and then they have rumors being leaked about parenting, who's doing what when, to me that sounds like someone trying to get ahead of things when it comes to what is inevitably, hopefully not, but a messy custody battle when it comes to kids. It's reminiscent of when people are putting together the data points of the Kim and Kanye divorce and how there were specific headlines about Kim pushed out right before there was a filing for divorce.

It's like everything is done for a reason, especially when you're in the public eye to be able to go to court and say no look at all these data points this was public knowledge this happened before the divorce this you know commentary that he was the sole provider was before we even filed yeah i just had a thought what oh god i don't like the look in your eye i just realized that two of taylor's exes are now single. Well, first of all, we don't know if Joe's single. Well, we don't know. I always thought the one was written about him. Joe Jonas?

I don't know. It's just the thought that I had. You think Taylor Swift Taylor's zero champ. Taylor Swift. And Joe Jonas get back together? Yes. Zero chance. Zero. I never imagined they even dated.

0.01. They're still friends. Taylor is not messy. And she is on the highest of highs. She is crushing the world. I'm not saying right now. In like a few years when he's healed. No, she doesn't want any part of speculation around homewrecker or like moving in on someone else's family. She doesn't

need that drama. She is above that affray. Why would she want to mess with a going back to an ex? I don't know how you feel about that end, but I'm not a big believer of that. I don't know how you feel about it in your book. That's messy. And two, it's just it's messy. Taylor doesn't need that mess. OK, so reputation like the album that she still has to rerecord and release, you know, her reputation was like shattered. and then she released that album so people are like taylor has to do something incredibly messy before she releases that album so it's like similar this would be that this is a huge reach at this point the more you explain it, the more I'm like, I just don't see it. I'm just seeing Taylor sitting in Rhode Island right now going, oh. Taylor's on.

She's going, should I text him? Yeah. Should I be like, sorry? Should I slide up on it? I hope the baby present I sent to you guys wasn't the start of this. It wasn't. I doubt it was. That was years ago.

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article.com slash V-I-A-L-L. All right. Roxanne and Antonio were definitely the most fascinating couple. When we were watching it, early on,

I predicted that Ryan and James would stay together and Raya and Trey would stay together. Really? And I thought Roxanne and Antonio and Kat and Alex would break up. I wasn't, like, Lisa and Brian were already prego at that point.

Yeah. So they weren't part of that prediction. Turns out they all stay together. At the reunion, I felt like, well, they should not. They should have broken up. Roxanne and Antonio. Roxanne and Antonio for sure. Ken and Alex, I don't know.

What I thought was the most interesting about this season, it really was a focus on, I think, compatibility. I thought it was really kind of interesting to see Roxanne and Antonio talk. Here's my read on Roxanne and Antonio, which I thought was just kind of fascinating in general. It kind of seemed like Antonio and Roxanne and Antonio, which I thought was just kind of fascinating in general. It kind of seemed like Antonio and Roxanne, they're like a trial run of 2023 and modern dating, if you will. Roxanne here is this businesswoman who clearly is fixated on her career and her job. Great. Love that.

We love a grinder. I think that's amazing. And she's dating someone who is like the opposite. The reality is, is like not everyone in our society has this kind of pension to like want to have a career. They're not career focused. They're not waking up and being like, how do I grind it out today? How do I, they're not money necessarily money motivated. They don't want to climb the corporate ladder. They just don't care. And historically speaking, men were only in the workforce, right? We've come a long way. It's crazy how much we've come when you think of just the lack of women's rights when it

came to the workplace and some things they couldn't do. And now it's 2023. And now it's not the case. And we have a ton of women in the workforce. We are having more and more executives. That's great. But here you have this couple. Because Antonio seems like the type of guy who's like, I don't know, I'll raise the kids. He seems like a compassionate and kind of empathetic guy who maybe he'll be the one who's like making the calendar, the household calendar. But she doesn't want that. She's the grinder who wants to work, but she talks like she also wants to find her counterpart. Like it all seemed like her and Alex were going to be like this perfect match. Turns out they hate each other because we often hate people who remind us most of ourselves. But it was just kind of interesting because it's like, I felt like Roxanne and Antonio were like this almost

like trial run or case study of in 2023, gender roles, are there none anymore? Is it regardless of the gender? Is it like, maybe we have two people who are professionally driven, maybe it's one person, but when it's the woman in a relationship and she wants to work and she's career focus is someone like roxanne does she want someone like antonio does that make sense yeah no no it does make sense because what was interesting to me is that like i feel like you know since that like the gender roles have kind of just like kind of fall into the wayside and like you see all these like female executives. But what happens most likely is like the men becomes insecure by how successful and ambitious the woman is. And then like that's the chasm in the relationship. But here it is not like that at all. Like Antonio seems to, you know, really support Roxanne and think it's like awesome how driven she is. And

in her mind, like, you know, maybe you don't want kids, maybe you don't want a marriage. That's fine. That's besides the point. Isn't it like awesome that you have someone who's willing to like fill that parental, like stay at home parent role if you do want that? Like, why does that matter to you? But I also think there's a difference because I was thinking it was just about career. It was just about money, until Roxanne's dad was talking to Alex, saying that when he goes over to the house, Antonio doesn't even get off the couch from playing video games to greet him. And that's when it clicked for me that it's more ambition or respect in multiple spheres. It's not just what is he doing and what is he earning. If I had someone who's playing video games and not getting their ass off the couch to greet my father when he comes to the house, I'd have a problem with

that too. Sure. But there's having a problem with not greeting your father. And then there's how Roxanne treats Antonio. Listen, they portray Antonio to be kind of a loser. Like, I don't know if he is, but his edit is kind of a deadbeat. And I don't know if he is, but his edit is kind of a deadbeat. And I don't know if he is, right? But the point is, is that Roxanne is dating him. She continues to date him. And even after going through this crazy show, she is at this reunion kind of looking like,

again, she hates him, doesn't respect him, but like also doesn't want to not be with him. And it's just kind of this fascinating thing. I know why they dated. Like, I know why of this fascinating thing. I know why they dated. Like, I know why they got together. And I know why they're together in a sense. Why? Antonio, despite his video game playing

and all the things that she hates about him, it's the same reason why Kat and Alex is because when they started dating, he was always there. She didn't need him to make money. She didn't need him to make money. She didn't need him to like buy her things, right? And he was kind of there to like have her download his day. I don't know.

Or just like do it. She ran the relationship. And at first it was, it very much fit into her needs. And maybe that fits into her needs overall. Maybe Antonio is a type of guy that generally she needs to be in a relationship because she is so dominant and she is so kind of type A, but it's almost like that part of her, whatever part of her that kind of still wants to be taken care of or want someone who is like the earner, like she wants that option. And that thing that we do when we're dating and we kind of ask

ourselves, is this the best I can do? I feel like that's Roxanne where she's always going to ask herself, is this the best I can do? And you're never going to look at Antonio and say, yes, he's never going to reach his full potential because he just never wants to. So like that kind of gives her the ick, but I don't think she's self-aware enough to realize that's kind of the person that she wants. But he is a CEO owner. He owns a car place now. Of a car wash. Yeah.

And she hates that. Oh my God. That was crazy. So mean. Yeah. When I was like 10 years ago, I wanted that. Yeah. But whatever.

I think it just creates a bigger picture in society. And I wonder for the ladies out there who very much are career driven, we hear a lot what you said. We hear a lot about how when they date and they meet men who make less money or are less successful, we always hear how the men have the issue with that. They get insecure, etc., etc. And clearly, Antonio has insecurities. And i'm wondering after watching roxanne and antonio i wonder how many couples who you have like these dominant professional women and these less dominant men watch these two and see themselves in this relationship because i feel like the the stereotype with these kind of relationships is the man resents the woman

for her success and that makes her feel insecure so like both of them you know no one's like happy and that's such a situation but here we have she resents him and that makes him feel insecure like i don't think he's insecure by how successful she is and that he i don't think he cares that he's not as successful as her i think it's just she makes him feel insecure how she talks to him. Yes. And just generally speaking, the grinders,

the people who are money motivated, the people who, just people, regardless of your gender, big personalities, they have a tendency of being critical. They can put people down because, well, they put themselves down.

They're hard on themselves. Roxanne, I'm sure if you asked Roxanne, she would say something like, no one's harder on me than me. And you know what? I bet that's true. I bet that's super true. But that doesn't stop her from also being hard on other people.

Oh, yeah. If she's like this hard on herself, she's like this hard on other people. Yeah. And that's still pretty up there. She kept going after Kat. It's like Kat did nothing wrong here. Like, why are we doing this to Kat? And I'm just wondering how many people out there who have

said oh i have this problem with dating certain type of men i'm very career focused i'm very motivated and they're just insecure and they can't handle my success i wonder under a microscope how many are closer to roxanne and they're not realizing it i I mean, the whole, like, I don't think she respects you fight that evolved. And then, you know, Alex's parents texting Kat. It was so bizarre. It was like he quite literally said, you know, like, I'm just, you know, I just don't think. He's like, why do I feel like you're trying to spare me?

Alex is like, because I am. And he's like, well, don't. He's like, okay, well, I just don't think she respects you. Like, in my opinion, I just don't. He's like, well, what has she said? So he, like well don't he's like okay well I just don't think she respects you like in my opinion he's like well what has she said so he like tries to remember and then she gets so mad about that she's like you're making you're putting words in my mouth when did I ever say the word respect when it and like she's she's literally like confirming everything that Alex was saying I think she like really panicked because I think she was being painted as like a bad guy

and I don't think Roxanne could like handle that type of criticism yeah and that's the whole time Alex is like no it's like just my opinion I don't think but she doesn't she comes across as she doesn't respect Antonio yeah that's the thing it's she belittles she talks bad about him I mean and that's the thing it's that Kat kept saying is it like i don't know why would my mom she doesn't even know you why would my mom want to make this up she she she has not she doesn't know you she has nothing against you all she is going on is what she's heard from you from you yeah and how you talk about your partner whoever your partner is i haven't met him but the way you speak about him sounds like you fucking hate him we interact with you know people all the time you

you hear them talk about someone you've never met you're like that doesn't sound like that that's a person who cares about the other person you know that sounds like someone who's like frustrated and at the you know at the end of their rope or doesn't respect them. Again, his edit. So I totally understand why Roxanne wouldn't want to be with him. What I don't understand is why she chooses to continue to be with him. And the only solution I can come up with is that she uses him.

And I don't even mean like, I guess we all, listen, we all use our partners to a certain extent. Hopefully we give as much as we take. We say things like, yeah, I want to be with someone because I want them to make me a better person. Well, that's kind of like you, you know, in a way using your partner. She kept saying how she's like in a different league, you know, how she's like, you know, pro sports team, how there's different league. She's 31 and he's 30.

Yeah. Didn't she say something along the lines of like, you're so like, I'm much older. I'm like, yeah, I agreed with her though. She's one year older but but that's not what she was saying she was saying listen i have worked my ass my whole life you know she busted her ass in her 20s as a 31 year old woman whose biological clock you know ticks and i don't know what she wants in terms of family but anytime she talked to like someone like alex who she deemed as more motivated all of a sudden this marriage and kids talk came out yeah she's looking at antonio i mean like if i have a

kid with you it's all on me but i think what she is addicted to when it comes to antonio is that person that she can walk all over that like a yes man yeah yes like she wants someone who who listens to her vent and complain, who will like do grocery runs. I bet Antonio is good at running little errands. You know, I bet he's the best at it. You know, he's like, yeah, babe, I'll pick up your dry cleaning for sure. Like, I think he's alex who is like i don't have like you're you're a mature woman why do you need help with the groceries like europe like because i only have two fucking hands what and like the fact that he's arguing with like not helping her clean she's like i literally like scrubbed the toilet and he's like yeah well sorry i was he was literally like good for you you shit in that toilet too like that i'm not clean you know like what do you mean get up and clean your own toilet back to this point you look at alex and kat and the reason why i think they might work out and why because kat does come across unlike like alex sounds like a little misogynistic and a little sexist who's just like i'm i'm dude, I'm going to work, I'm going to make the money. And if you

could just stay home and take care of our kids, that would be really great for me. That's how he comes across. But Kat also kind of sounds like at the end of the day, she might be down for that, right? And it's just kind of interesting that Roxanne isn't down for Antonio to play the cat role, where cat is a little bit more demure. But I don't think Alex deserves someone like cat, because cat seems like she is going to make a great partner to the right person, because she will love that person. And maybe that's unfair, or there's a double standard for Antonio. It's the video game plan that makes him sound like a deadbeat. But I can sit here and say, Antonio sounds like a deadbeat and I have nothing but nice things to say about Kat.

I really hope that after Kat watched the argument between Roxanne and Alex that she had something to say. I really hope that she... About Alex. Yeah. That she was like... And then him not even apologizing, like Roxanne coming over,

giving this big apology and like really, you know, showing so much humility. And then I was being like, yeah, well, you know, people make mistakes.

Um, anyways. So she's like, that's all like, you have nothing you want to say. Like, I really hope that maybe sparked a conversation with them. If Kat has started to,

you know, speak more about, speak more about speak more on her mind but I wish what did you think because I know you loved Kat I I love Kat and I think this is why I feel Kat and Alex work out it's because unlike Antonio I feel like Kat she may be gentle about her approach but she speaks up for herself she'll say something like when Antonio was, you know, calling Alex a show.

She was, she stuck up for Alex. She stuck up for Alex. Yes. But I feel like if she can like stand up to someone else, she could possibly have that energy with Alex, you know, possibly.

Right. But I feel like Antonio, when you see them talking, it's like he gets really rattled up like the night he got angry when he found out Roxanne not respecting Antonio he he was angry at first he flipped out he was calling names and then shows up to Roxanne and he's just bawling his eyes out and I feel like Kat she won't cry about it she's kind of just like can we talk let's talk about this with Alex it seems like she's more willing to communicate and Antonio is kind of just like all right then I just don's talk about this with Alex. It seems like she's more willing to communicate.

And Antonio is kind of just like, all right, then I just don't. If that's how you feel, Roxanne, then fine. I don't want to talk. But it's like Antonio, it's so fascinating because it's like he knows deep down that Alex isn't lying. It's like you could see it on Antonio's face. He knows that she doesn't respect him, but he doesn't respect himself. But that was also the whole issue.

Like Kat in their bio even says Kat is conflict avoidant, preferring to defer to Alex instead of making her own decisions. Meanwhile, he wants to be challenged and he wants someone who's the equal and isn't afraid to speak their mind. And so I think, yeah, it was really easy for her to stick up for someone else. But I think it's really hard for her to stick up for herself. Yeah. But I'm hoping that because of this that's what makes them work now because after the show they came back

for the reunion right and things seemed pretty okay with them so maybe she learned from that it seemed better but ultimately she wanted the proposal and she got what she wanted you know in theory the question is is this you know

is it working out did she make a terrible mistake you know and the terrible mistake would be focusing so much on the security of an engagement that she pushed aside some of the more meaningful you know qualities in a relationship that she hasn't been getting that she might need in the long run. Again, with Antonio, Antonio seems like he wants to get married to Roxanne for security, which is kind of fascinating. It's such a 180 from what we're used to from a societal standpoint. Roxanne's the worker. She's going to make money. She's going to be fine either way. And Antonio just doesn't want to work. I just like, it's not for me. He's a freight broker. What is that don't know not anymore but i think he wants to

he wants to get him married to when all these questions like would you marry her today antonio's like yeah because he knows that roxanne is always going to be fine financially she is always going to work she will always figure it out she is a survivor she is a grinder she's a hustler she's smart so he feels safe with her and he feels safe with her and if i marry roxanne i'm gonna be financially secure and it's like roxanne feels that same thing that antonio wants but instead of just accepting that maybe she is the grinder and is the worker and she is the breadwinner in the family and that doesn't seem like she wants. She wants to be a power couple.

But then she doesn't like... I don't know if she really does. I think she wants an Antonio. She just needs to accept that this is the life that... This is what she wants. But she just has to like just marry Antonio

and let him do his thing. I think it's also because Roxanne comes off so aggressive anyways that obviously if she's this aggressive, her partner is just going to seem very like, calm, relaxed. And Antonio is. But to play devil's advocate, do you think that maybe he is kind of discouraged to working hard because maybe Roxanne has kind of like pushed him so far down like emotionally like drained him emotionally but do you guys think that maybe that's why he he feels so discouraged to maybe work that hard I think she's hard on him and she says some things that come across as like fuck that was pretty direct but it's it's just direct and she has the right to be discouraged

and she has a right to be frustrated at him i i don't get either of them i don't understand why either of them are so willing to be with the other person because they both seem like they make each other miserable i feel it's just history at that point because like like they said right she has gone back and forth with him or it could just be maybe roxanne not accepting i guess who she is or what she wants. Antonio's Antonio. Yeah. But it's just more it's Roxanne figuring out what is she

if I were talking to Roxanne I'd be like what do you really want out of a relationship? Why are you with him? Right. You say you respect him so why let's focus on what you do like about him. Because what you don't like about him I want to know what about the things that you don't like about him i want to know what about the things that you don't like what would you be willing to accept him never changing right

and would you still be willing to date him because at some point when you date someone you just you're gonna reach a point where you say well i realize this is who you are yeah i guess we can always work on our shortcomings but if i want want to be with you, I need to accept blank, blank, blank, blank, blank, blank, blank. Because it's been like two or three years. It hasn't changed. I've nagged. This is just who you are, your personality. Antonio is never going to be some sort of like business hustler, grind it out.

He's not going to go back to school and get his degree, advanced degree. So then maybe it's a little bit of both to why they're still together. It's because they have history. Yes. And then on top of that, she hasn't accepted herself. Right. So it could be a little bit of both because I think history goes a long way. Like if you have been with someone for a long time, she's probably struggling with having to let him go if that's the case.

Well, and also if she's working that many hours, and she already has someone that like they can somewhat make it work, she's not going to finish these crazy work days and get on hinge and go to a dinner. Well, I mean, you're probably right. But that's, I guess my point is that if Roxanne really wants to be with Antonio, she needs to do a better job of appreciating the stuff that he does do. Because clearly he is doing something that she finds value out of. And she needs to name it and then focus on that.

And then accept the things that she doesn't like about him. It just ain't changing. This is who he is. And it's also fine if she doesn't want to accept those things. But they should break up. Do you remember in the episode where they were back together with their couple and

Antonio was like, I love you. And she was just like, mm-hmm. And he communicated. He was like, why can't you just say I love you too? And she was like, well, why? I don't feel it right now. I don't want to say something I don't mean. I think she said that was brutal. That was a lot. She even said like over

the past few days i've been saying i love you and i've been like whoa that feels different because i don't normally do that but at least she's trying and like trying to increase that as like ridiculous as it kind of sounds meanwhile with kat and alex she's saying i need more words of affirmation he goes well that's not a big deal for me so i'm a i'm a man of action yeah that's what he said and he goes it's really hard to uh show love in a way you don't receive it so uh yeah no that's not gonna work for me i love james you like james like james sweet baby angel i love trey and ryan me too you loved trey and ryan really too i did not think that Trey was going to propose to Raya. Neither did I. Or get pregnant with her.

Did you see that? No. They're expecting a baby. I mean, good for them as long as they're happy and they figured it out. Like if the show helped them. But I genuinely thought that Ryan and Trey were going to get together. At least they were both ready. And even if they didn't end up together, I was hoping that that would illuminate to both of them that those people are out there.

Because even at the proposal, like Trey's getting down on one knee and Raya's just like, huh. So scared. That is not the type of proposal you want to see. That is not the reaction. She had to like gather herself, realize that she was being filmed and then come up with an answer. That was like Roxanne, too. Like she couldn't even say the word yes. She was like, this is really scary for me.

You know that, right? I did not think Roxanne was going to say yes. But that's on, but I blame Antonio. Like Antonio, they're both, is guilty for being in this, like what seems to be unhealthy relationship. Like Roxanne's not the villain in this relationship any more than Antonio is. Yeah, she's harsh.

And she says some things that come across as cold. It's like, stand up for yourself, Antonio. You know, he doesn't treat himself with respect. And how could you possibly expect someone like Roxanne to treat him with respect when he doesn't treat himself with respect? You know? She also refused to wear the engagement ring.

She just keeps it in the box. And he added to it. He made it even bigger. She still doesn't want to wear it. But she wears all these other rings and accessories. Do something about it, Antonio. Stand up for yourself. Be like, I'm not okay with this. And so I'm just here to say

either just shut up and love each other or break up i think they chose to shut up and love each other i you know i don't know they haven't shut up though but weirdly enough i i do think i do think they're kind of good for each other they work out like they balance each other out is that what you're saying yeah i mean, you know, they, they clearly have their flaws. Their relationship has its flaws.

Their relationship, you could argue is toxic just like at cat now. Cause like cat Alex, there's, there's, there's compatibility there in a sense that like, yeah, Alex is just kind of gives you the ick and he says some really off putting

things. But I think cat wants the, the go getter that Alexlex is and she probably sounds like she would be comfortable with a life of him working they have kids she's the primary like razor of the kids she's a travel nurse she's busy is she though she didn't but i don't know i don't know. I don't know what their family planning plans are, but he clearly is old school. And it sounds like she might be down for something like that. Now, where I think, you know,

he's just a dick. So eventually she's just going to feel underappreciated. The argument where Roxanne and Alex, when they were arguing about the respect thing, as much as I hated the way Alex was saying the things he was saying, I loved how direct he was to Roxanne, though. But then that made me wonder, like, does he talk that way to Kat, knowing that Kat's so soft-spoken?

I'm not sure. Right? He comes across... We need to protect Kat at all costs. It's hard to tell. That's where I'm at right now. In general, he comes across as condescending and a bit of a nodal. And I'm sure he's like that with everyone.

He comes across as he doesn't respect anyone he's really talking to. Like he's the smartest guy in the room. And I think it just comes across extra icky when he's talking to women as a result. Which was weird though because he also didn't want to tell Antonio how he felt about Roxanne. I think he kind of did. A little bit, right? But at the same time, he didn't. Because he wasn't being very, like,

open and honest with it. He kind of hesitated a lot. I think he honestly just didn't want to hurt Antonio's feelings. But I know he genuinely felt that Roxanne didn't respect him. But I thought that was a weird side to Alex, like knowing how he talked to Roxanne during the argument versus how he kind of spilt the tea to Antonio. It was just not as direct as you would think it would be. Yeah.

It's tough to tell another guy that your partner doesn't respect you. But I felt like he was leaning into the theatrics a little bit. Yeah. This episode is sponsored by Care Of chances are you've tried a vitamin or two in your life and chances are

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healthier hair for a limited time. Nutrafol is offering our listeners $10 off your first month subscription and free shipping when you go to Nutrafol.com and enter promo code THEVIOLFILES. That's right. That's T-H-E-V-I-A-L-L-F-I-L-E-S. Find out why over 4,000 healthcare professionals recommend Nutrafol to healthier hair at Nutrafol.com. That's N-U-T-R-A-F-O-L.com. Promo code TheVileFiles. That's Nutraful.com. Promo code TheVileFiles. I felt like most of the people who asked for the ultimatum, I think the general theme was they didn't feel appreciated by their partner.

Antonio, Kat, Trey. Ryan. That was a general theme of not feeling, they didn't feel appreciated by their partner was kind of the theme wait can we go back to that you like James

love really why I like he needs therapy he definitely needs therapy no he definitely needs therapy like I love James too

it's just unfortunate because Ryan is just emotionally in a place to like be a great partner and get married and have children. And he's not.

And that's not his fault, but it's also not Ryan's fault. And I feel bad for her holding herself back again because of all this history they have. Right. She seems like a very kind person. I'm just so proud of him for finally speaking up. I am too. Yeah. It sounds like he's been through a lot and it's clearly a guy who needs a lot of therapy.

He didn't ask, you know, he didn't serve up the ultimatum, so to speak. And he's in this, you know, fake marriage or whatever, trial marriage as they call it. And he's just like, I don't want to hold hands with you because it seemed like Ryan was doing, James rather, was doing a lot of self-reflection, right? And then good for him for apologizing to raya being like i'm kind of being selfish by like focusing on my needs and i'm not giving you what you want it's not really his responsibility to do that but at least he acknowledged it but yeah like i get him not wanting to hold hands with her because it's like he wanted to prove his loyalty to ryan it's like

he he this was james trying to like become a man over a man. Just really hold himself accountable. I agree with Natalie. I thought his journey was the most self-reflective. And also, he's a freak. He is a kinky little freak. Yeah, what is the... Sound stick? Yeah.

A sounding rod. Yeah, I don't know. I liked James and Ryan because, listen, I didn't marry my high school sweetheart. Thank God. But in 2023, if you're going to try to marry your high school sweetheart, I think we have to acknowledge the challenges. It's not easy to do.

And it's even harder nowadays because no one else is doing it. And, you know, back in the day when you married your high school sweetheart, all your friends were marrying their high school sweetheart and no one was like, hey, do you realize all the other opportunities you're like saying no to by like dating the same person? No one's throwing that in your face. Much harder in 2023. And so I thought it was kind of cute and endearing to see this young couple go through some of these struggles and all while trying to figure themselves out as individuals

while trying to still prioritize the relationship. It's a fucking hard thing to do. And so, yeah, I give James and Ryan a lot of credit. Like, yeah, you know, Trey and Ryan had some chemistry. But to me, that was kind of insignificant. You know? Yeah. You can have chemistry with a lot of people. I think they needed that, though. Because I feel like Trey and Ryan needed to understand that they do deserve more than what they've had with their partners.

So they need to speak up more about it. Because they've never experienced that with their partners. So they need to speak up more about it because they've never experienced that with their partner. So having it from each other for Trey and Ryan to have that with each other, they're like, okay, I can express to my partner now, hey, I actually like this and I actually don't like this and blah, blah, blah, blah. And, you know, because they actually felt it already. I feel like this experience benefited James and Ryan the most.

And I feel like kind of everyone else got pressured into a decision they weren't capable of making or weren't prepared to make. Like, Brian and Lisa, what a train wreck. I mean, I don't know if they're happy and healthy. But, you know, when he was like, hey, how you react to things? It's a bit concerning. Meanwhile, she demonstrated just how reactive she is. She hit him. Yeah.

Yeah, she did hit him. Oh, my favorite part of the reunion was Raya was like, hey, listen. Raya, very calmly, was like, hey, listen, I just want to say, like, didn't really appreciate how you talked to me. I felt a bit disrespected. Sitting very nice, but very calm. She didn't like get in her face. She just was like, hey, listen, I just felt like it was a little out of pocket.

And then Lisa's just like, yeah, no, sorry, not sorry. Lisa literally was like, I don't care. I don't give a fuck. Meanwhile, and then you, was it, was it, was it Antonio? I think it was Antonio who like, again, kind of an empathetic heart. Sweet guy, you know, he's got his. Oh, he did step in. He kind of stepped in and said, sweet guy, you know, he's got his pros. Oh, he did step in. He kind of stepped in and said, hey, listen, like, you seem like a nice person. Like,

almost kind of was like, hey, like, it just seems like a weird thing for you to still be pushing this issue. She apologized and was kind of like this level approach. I just feel like this, you know, hey, and then they, was it also Roxxanne someone threw out the pregnancy hormone excuse oh it was which lisa was like oh yeah i was acting out of character so that's why i decided to take a test right but meanwhile it's like but you still don't regret it it's like roxanne gave her the out of which lisa realized oh yeah i'll just use that excuse but she gave her the excuse after she said she wasn't sorry. Also, not her admitting that she also worked at Hooters, but then is using that as like the main descriptor for Raya calling her a Hooters bitch.

And then when they brought that up, she goes, well, it's less about where she works and more just what she embodies. Like, it just felt like every time they tried to counter one of her points. How can a girl who works at Hooters challenge you? Yeah. If that is not, like, how more disrespectful can you get? Yeah, Lisa was yelling at Brian outside and was like, what are you going to learn from her? You can't learn anything

from her. What she was saying didn't make any sense because and usually when we don't make sense, it's because we can't say the hard part out loud. She might have just felt a little insecure in that moment for sure. Their whole fight was like the Meisner loud. She might have just felt a little insecure in that moment, for sure. Their whole fight was like the Meisner technique. I was like, there's so much repetition happening.

It feels like an acting exercise. Yeah. Yeah, but like, you know, I hope they're good. But yeah, everyone else felt like they got pressured into a decision. I don't know. I wish Lisa and Brian stayed because I feel like it would have been very interesting. Because then I feel like, of course, Brian and Raya would have been coupled up.

Yep. And then I feel like Lisa might have chosen Trey, to be honest. Because remember, they were kind of vibing in the beginning. But I don't know. I mean, happy for them. They have a baby boy now.

And it seems like in the reunion, they're very much just sitting there kind of like, okay, we stand by where we're at right now and we're doing well together. I felt like there was a lot of reassurance. She's not sorry. Yeah, but she's not sorry. She's obviously not sorry. And she's very happy they left the show.

Unfortunately, it just seemed like Trey and Raya, like, I i mean they're pregnant now so that's great but yeah i just i i hope that her reaction to the proposal was just more her being filmed and not her genuine reaction because that might be tough to watch back well even if these people didn't find their person we can find our person there you go i like that one. Thank you. And give me your biggest takeaways, your three biggest takeaways from your book. Also, you have a lot of stuff in here about friendships, which people, I find, you know, it's

harder and harder to make friends these days, especially in adulthood. We like to talk and encourage our listeners to push themselves to make friends in adulthood because it can seem scary and, you know, people are less open to it. But now more than ever, I think in this lonely society, we have to push ourselves to make friends. What's some advice that you can share that's from your book about

friendships and just your general like biggest takeaways that you have found people have resonated with from your book? So the book has basically three big chapters. One of them is love and like relationships with romantic partners. The second one is based off of just friendships, like it's just purely friendships. And then the third one is the relationship you have with yourself. And I would like to say one of the biggest takeaways within the book that I wanted to really put out there is that you truly grow through what you go through. Like you are becoming the person you are through these experiences, good or bad. And a lot of that has to do with your environment, who you surround yourself with, your romantic partners or the friends you make

along the way. And then also the way you feel about yourself, that relationship with yourself. And so I put it so that in every single chapter of the three, you have heartbreak with friendships and in the relationships, but also the heartbreak you have within yourself of like feeling discouraged of like not feeling enough, not feeling worthy. So, and then I also put the highs. So I put the highs of like being in love or like the chase or like finally finding a friend that you're like, oh, I'm so comfortable with this person. I see a lifetime friendship. But then also having to go through, OK, how do I make this a lifetime friendship? Because it's not just going to fly by smoothly. Obviously, just like a romantic relationship, you are going to argue with your friends.

You're going to have disagreements. And so what I hoped with this book is to, yes, to encourage people to understand and grasp the fact that they will grow through what they go through. encourage people to understand and grasp the fact that they will grow through what they go through. The second one altogether is to just either use it as a guide or for it to be something relatable. If you're going through this right now, hey, there's a chapter for you in here. Like there's a passage in here for you. Have you ever had to leave a friendship? Oh, absolutely. Tell me about it. You have four steps in here of how to do that. And I'm curious. I'm assuming you had to live through that on your own. Absolutely.

And that can be hard. We tell ourselves that like friendships are forever. And I always find like the hardest part of breakups of any kind, whether romantic or friendship is because of the promises we kind of make to ourselves about the relationships or to each other. Hey, you know, romantic ones, like, you know, we're going to marry and have kids. We're going to have a happy ever after. And then a couple of years go by, you're not happy. And it's like, but I promised us. And same with friendships. You guys make these packs. Yeah. Oh, we're a happy ever after. And then a couple of years go by, you're not happy. And it's like, but I promised us. And same with friendships. You guys make these packs. Yeah. Oh, we're going to be friends forever.

And then sometimes it's hard to look yourself in the mirror and be like, I don't know if this relationship is serving me. How did you come to that realization with a friend? And how did you end up leaving that friendship? So I had a friend that I grew up with. And I'm saying like 10 plus years of friendship. And this person was my number one person. But I did have to leave the friendship because we grew apart. It was to a point where every little thing I felt I was doing and this person was doing, it just wasn't aligned

anymore. We couldn't relate because we couldn't relate. We couldn't really empathize for each other when we were going through certain things, whether it be career or it be in relationships or just other friendships in general, life in general. We just couldn't relate. And we were hitting a wall. We really tried. We were like, you know, we don't talk a lot because we lived pretty far apart, but we tried to make time for each other.

We were like, oh, let's have FaceTime calls every so often, like maybe every week, every week, every two weeks to catch up. At one point, it was kind of like, we just never called each other. Like we had a schedule and we were like, oh yeah. So that kind of just phase out? I messaged this person after we kind of stopped talking. And I would like to say not more than two weeks had passed. We were like, oh, we were supposed to have a phone call,

but then it never happened. And no one apologized. No one checked in. And I was like, this is a sign. Like, not that we don't care, but it's like, maybe we've kind of just ended, this is it for us. So I sent this person a message because I tried calling and this person didn't answer. So I was like, oh crap, maybe they are upset that we didn't have this phone call. But I sent them a message and I was like, hey, we've been through a lot

and I love you dearly, but I get it. You know, you're in a different place in your life. I'm in a different place than mine. And I will always be rooting for you. We ended it on such a good note, but we're not really friends. Was that sad? Did you have to mourn that friendship? Oh my gosh. Yeah. I'm like tearing up right now. Yeah. It's tougher with friendships and like best friends, best friendships, because you play the role of a romantic partner in so many ways yeah you're there emotionally you're the emotional support system and when it's not serving

you well it's like kind of a weird to like because you don't need to like break up like a romantic one and be like hey don't call me because i just can't see you you know we're not friends i feel like with my situation i definitely felt like for me I had to accept the fact that I couldn't be a good friend to this person anymore. Like I wasn't the friend they needed, I guess is a better saying. And so I had to take myself out of that because I knew this person is doing well. They're thriving. I'm rooting for this person constantly, very happy for where they are in life. And I'm just like, it's so nice to look back and be like, good for you. We had a great friendship. Well, and it's the fading sometimes is the hardest part, too. Like nothing big happened. It's different than a romantic relationship where like

there wasn't a scandal or a big fight and you just you grow apart. And I think sometimes it's even harder than romantic relationships because you feel like you can be more vulnerable with them in a way you don't have those same. Oh, they like me or will they not if i share this like with your friends you're supposed to just be able to share everything and it just be an open book so to feel like when that book so to speak closes it's really hard especially when it's a 10-year friendship yeah over 10 years yeah your book and i see this one page that just says, if they loved you, you would feel loved. What a great line. What is something in your book that you learned from your own repetitive mistakes? Like what is something in this book that you're giving advice to your readers and you learned it because you've

made that same mistake many, many times. And maybe you're even capable of still making that same mistake. But deep down, you know that it is a mistake and something you wanted to share with your audience. Oh, yeah. I think my most repetitive mistake is thinking I'm not worthy. For example, being in the talks and being invited to be on The Vile Files. Like, I didn't think I was worthy. I think I spoke about it earlier, too. I was like, my butt is going to be where JoJo sat. Taylor Lautner was here. Topanga was here. Like I have to constantly tell myself

I'm here for a reason. I may be nervous. I may be scared, but I belong here. How would you do that in your romantic relationships? How have you overcome that feeling of unworthiness? Yeah, no. So I feel like a lot of the time me feeling unworthy in a relationship is because like the person is so good to me and I'm over here, like obviously doubtful because like what's going to go wrong, but also like, why do I deserve a good person? Cause I feel like we all, and like, you can correct me if I'm wrong, but like, we all kind of think about our, our past mistakes and who we were as a person. And you're like, I was a mean person. Or like, you know, maybe even a past relationship, you were just not as respectful. You weren't the best partner. And then now you move on and with life and then you find someone else and they're

treating you the way that you've always wanted to be treated. And all of a sudden you're like, wait, this is different. Like, I don't deserve this. And I feel like when I'm in that state of thinking I don't deserve the love that my partner is giving me, wholeheartedly, I have that conversation with my partner. I'm like, hey, you're so good to me. This is nothing about you. This is my own insecurities. You love me. And I understand that. And I feel that. But I don't feel like I deserve that. I think it's really nice to communicate that with your partner. It's the reassurance factor. It's like there's so many times where I feel I should have spoken up for myself and said, hey, I want to talk about this, but I'm also fearful that I

don't want to make my partner feel insecure. Like, what do you mean you don't deserve this? They might feel, oh, maybe they're doing something wrong or they're doing too much or they're being overbearing or something. I think the biggest lesson I've learned is to just communicate it. Be like, listen, it's not about you. It's about how I'm feeling. It's about how I feel like I don't deserve this, but you're amazing. And then having them tell me like, no, I do these things for you and I'm here for you because I love you, because you deserve it.

Like to hear that you being perceived as this great person is so nice compared to like the negative thoughts you feel in your, like you feel inside. Other than communicating, because obviously super important. Yeah. How do you have that conversation with yourself? Because at some point I'm assuming. Yeah. Yeah. Communication is important. Yeah. But let's say you're communicating that every week. Right. That could be a little bit. It could be, yeah. Like, oh, no, trust me. Like, you deserve me.

You know, like, oh, you know, like, what's that internal conversation you've had with yourself? The internal conversation that I feel I've had with myself is I have to, I'm constantly reminding myself, like, hey, you're doing great. Everything you've worked towards, whether it be career-wise or like just life trying to be a better person trying to be you know a just a good person to remind yourself you are doing your best every day you don't have to prove anything to anyone else like that's a dialogue that's a dialogue in my head like don't you don't need to prove anything to anyone else

um especially outside of your relationship but you don't have to prove anything to anyone else just prove yourself wrong you're i'm feeling this way I'm feeling insecure about myself and I'm just like I don't want to feel this way anymore I have to do something about it like I have to I think for the longest time that's something I struggled with very long time like years and I'm finally coming to this point sorry i think i'm just finally coming to a point where i can say i'm proud of myself for growing through what i've gone through and that's a really hard conversation to have i'm sorry is there tissues yeah well there's a lot of great nuggets in here it's called finding your person even if it's you be sure to check that it's out now it is out now you get books is there an audio book there's an audio book i was actually able to a lot of the people who listen to the

show can't read like me so they they're like listening to things but it's also available at target available target yeah it's target amazonobook, wherever you get your books, be sure to check out Finding Your Person, even if it's you. And I know you don't use your last name, but how would someone search the author? Is it just under Anne? It's under Anne XMP. Anne XMP. Yeah. There we go.

A lot of people don't know how to say that. So I learned that in the book industry, you find books based off the last name of the author. I'm curious about that. Yeah. Actually, if you do knew my last name, though, you could find it. You could. You can, yes. But if you don't, AnneXMP.

AnneXMP. Well, check it out. Thank you guys for listening. We want to thank Anne for joining us. Also, can everyone follow you? Oh, yeah, absolutely. Where? On Instagram and on TikTok. And I also am on YouTube. However, can everyone follow you? Oh, yeah, absolutely. Where? On Instagram

and on TikTok and I also am on YouTube. However, I don't post, so I don't recommend it. And it's AnneXMP? AnneXMP. AnneXMP.

Check out all of Anne's great stuff out there. We are back on Thursday. Well, actually, which is tomorrow, going deeper because I know it's been a holiday week.

Wells Adams, friend of show, is with us tomorrow. We'll be talking about probably Joe and Serena's wedding. He was the presider? Officiant? Minister? Officiant?

Well, no. Is it ordained? Don't you go online and get ordained minister? Ordained minister. You can be like 35. Anyways, we'll talk about the wedding. We'll catch up with Wells. We'll get into all, probably find out what can we expect for Paradise.

The bartender of Paradise is with us. Plus, I'm sure more great stuff to come on Thursday. Going deeper, don't forget to send in those questions at asknick at devalophiles.com for all things texting, office hours, mediation, Ask Nick. Be sure again to check out Anne's book, Finding Your Person. Follow Anne on social.

We'll be back tomorrow. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.