The Viall Files - E640 Ask Nick - Everyone Caught Feelings During Threesome

Episode Date: September 18, 2023

Welcome back to another episode of The Viall Files: Ask Nick Edition! We’re back to answer your burning questions about the world of dating and relationships. Before getting to our callers, we discuss the Adventures of Ali: Atlanta Edition, and read a submission from a writer-iner whose boyfriend wants his mom to move in with them two months before their baby is due. During her pregnancy, his mom has been invasive of her personal space, which she deeply wants to cherish before her baby is born. She is deeply against her staying with them, but can’t seem to get through to her boyfriend. We then get to our callers.  Our first caller needs help setting boundaries with her mom and her relationship. Her mother has been in a toxic on-and-off-again relationship, and shares constant unwanted reports with our caller. Our second caller was involved in a threesome where everyone caught feelings. She hooked up with her friend, and her friend’s f buddy, and now wants to confess her newfound feelings for the f buddy, but is worried about upsetting her friend, who has already confessed feelings for our caller. Our final caller is considering cutting off her boyfriend’s toxic family. After years of failed attempts to have a healthy relationship with them, she’s not sure if it’s past the point of boundary setting, or if she and her boyfriend need to cut ties for good.  “Being happy is better than being right.”  Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  Join us for our new LIVE show on Thursdays at 9PM ET/6PM PT on Amp, available in the Apple app store and https://www.onamp.com for Android listeners. To Order Nick’s Book Go To: https://www.viallfiles.com  If you would like to get some texting advice on Office Hours send an email to [e-mail] with “Texting Office Hours” in the subject line!  To advertise on the show, contact [e-mail] or visit https://www.advertisecast.com/TheViallFiles  THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Vessi - Visit https://www.vessi.com/VIALL and use code VIALL for 15% off your entire order. Free shipping to CA, US, AU, JP, TW, KR, SGP. Wondery - You can binge Even the Rich: Viva Selena right now ad-free on Wondery Plus. Get started with your free trial at https://www.Wondery.com/plus. Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @alison.vandam @liffordthebigreddog @dereklanerussell @genevievegoodman

you're crazy what's going on everybody welcome back to another exciting episode of the vile viles ask nick edition hope you all had a weekend, especially for those of you who are tuning in to us on Monday. Joined by the household of Allie, Genevieve, and Derek. Amanda is back soon. You guys always are

concerned about everyone in the household, so we're just going to give you tabs on everyone. Anyway, what's new? What's cracking? What's going on? Guys, I went to Atlanta for the weekend. You did? Had never been there before. You've never been to Atlanta?

Why'd you go? Because I'd never been there before. You just went. My friend Caitlin and I were celebrating our 10-year anniversary. And we said, let's go to a city neither of us have ever been to before. And it was also combined with her birthday. I just chose an Airbnb. I didn't really know how the city laid out.

The locals referred to it as the drug den. You should have said it in Buckhead. Yeah, I didn't know a single thing. So I accidentally got us staying in the drug den, which was fun. Did you go to Buckhead at all? I don't know what that is. So my thought is no. It's like the fancy part of town.

I wish we would have stayed there. Yeah. Yeah, if you would have asked, I would have told you to go to Buckhead. I probably should have asked. We went rogue. What did you do? Well, we got there and then we went to dinner and then we decided to stop by this Mexican restaurant that was by our Airbnb.

After dinner? Well, because the place we went for dinner didn't have any food, just had appetizers. So we were still hungry. An appetizer only restaurant? What the fuck? Why did you pick this place guys i you sound like me you sound like you know this sounds like a vacation i made someone who doesn't know how to plan shit who just like goes by the seat of their pants we weren't going by

the seat of our pants like i had a reservation but like why didn't you do like appropriate research surely you would have looked at the menu and seen oh there's only like 15 appetizers on this menu but we were hoping we were like hoping to order a bunch of them but the waitress never came back like the whole thing how did you pay finally she came back i gave her my card but by that point we were just tired so then we tried to go to this mexican restaurant which was open not a single person working there was just like a family waiting to be served the whole thing was just empty the family's like yelling for service we felt like we were in a like a prank why did you pick these places this is on you yeah this is a you problem we did go to a speakeasy

okay um we met an interesting man sound like a fun time either. No, it was. That was one of the best. Yeah. And then... They met a man with a cigar. Yeah, he was puffing a cigar. He's a doctor. And then he was definitely giving like flirty vibes. And then I noticed he had a wedding ring on.

But instead of just like asking like, oh, you're married in the middle of him talking to my friend. I said, what does your wife think about that? So I was getting a little aggressive. And then he was like, oh, I met her when she was my med student his wife yeah and i said oh so you're a predator you said that i did and he said he just kind of brushed it off and we kept talking for like two more hours and then he asked for our phone numbers and he pulled out a little black book the married man and then it was a little black book and the first page of the little black book was like breathe you can do this like it was like positive affirmations and then you

whip out the next page and it's like 29 wait what is a 29 year old married doctor i thought you were gonna say like 73 i was picturing like bowler hat cane no suspenders yeah with a cigar who's a cigar anymore under 30 and inside too and he met her when she was his med student yeah that's how he phrased it who is this doogie hauser

I don't know what a weird journey you were on anyway do we have a writer enter before we get to our calls we do kind of a pregnancy story thought it was topical okay so she says am i being unreasonable or is my boyfriend absolutely batshit crazy love that he wants his mom to stay with us either she's being unreasonable or he's nuts yeah either she's like just slightly unreasonable just like a little bit like a little bit unreasonable so he wants his mom to stay

with them two months before her due date she's expressed how much that would upset her as she's antisocial and the pregnancy has been hard on her already he wants mom to come live with them two months prior that was my question as well so they she was there for the first trimester um and she was there for three weeks and was all over me example she flipped me over mid-nap because she feared i would get bed sores they're just annoying things like that don't you get bed sores like weeks after being in a bed yeah not in the middle of a nap so and she what are people supposed to do in the middle of an eight hour sleep flip set an alarm anyway she would end up having to be the one to drive the mom everywhere and entertain her because her boyfriend worked long

hours and the last trimester would be the last bit of me time she would get before she said she has someone who needs all of her attention forever her Her boyfriend's from England, so he only sees his parents twice a year. She understands this is a big time for him too, but his life hasn't really changed throughout the pregnancy and hers has been flipped upside down. He still goes out with his friends, goes to work, he can eat and drink whatever he wants, etc, etc. His argument for needing her to come so early is he needs support. And then she says, what support? I'm the one pushing this thing out. You're just watching it happen. True queen.

And then she says, to make matters worse, we only have two bedrooms in our apartment and she would have to stay in the nursery that's not even complete. So that would be time

that she needs to finish it. So she wants to know if this is a reasonable ask as his family lives so far away or if we think that she's in the right. What do we think? No, she's in the right.

Yeah. Right? For sure. Yeah. I think it's one thing for her to come stay i don't know why she needs to come two months before and i mean he's right like what as someone who's currently supporting a pregnant fiance i don't need any support i mean i don't need someone to come to support me like if anyone should come for support it should be her mom if she wants that well the only support I guess I need is from Natalie like you know asking me how I'm doing I don't know like checking in perhaps you know like certainly doing her part around the house when she feels up for it you know as long as the pregnancy isn't kind of like you know pulling her down or having one of her bad you know sick

days or which obviously happens but she is more than in the right but like yeah this is her last kind of remaining time and it's both of their last remaining time as a couple without a kid absolutely nuts that she would be living there for two months while he's working. And you're right. And her chaperoning mom around. A full time job to take care of. I understand his family lives overseas, doesn't get to see mom and dad. But doesn't it make sense to have them post?

That's what I'm thinking. Even if. OK, with them being overseas, you never know as you approach a due date if it's going to be early if so i would understand okay they can't just drive over well they don't have to show up as soon as the baby comes out they can like miss a couple days yeah but i was trying to give a benefit of the doubt i was like okay maybe like a week or two before if you want to be extra cautious and careful but the two months before feels aggressive well when i was emailing her i was like do you think he'd do you think he could come talk to us too and she was like i don't know i

maybe but i don't know if now is like the right time to ask him so but i got the sense that why not why is it what is this i mean it's coming across as bit of of of mama boy oh yeah but but my point was she's obviously tried to talk to him about this she's expressed you know that this would upset her yada yada yada you know hasn't really worked coming from her i feel like if you gave like boyfriend advice i feel like she she would be open to showing this to him so if you were speaking to the boyfriend right now, what would you say? My advice is that you're being selfish. Your girlfriend is pregnant.

I would just check in with her needs. It's not that your needs don't matter, but I think it's time to just prioritize hers at the moment. And as a couple, yes, there's something to be said about this. This is your last time. It's wonderful it is to have a child, to be alone with just each other you know for me all that really matters right now is natalie's stress level that's all it really matters for me it doesn't really matter whether i always agree with whether

she should or shouldn't be stressed or not it doesn't matter to me who's right or who's wrong, all that matters as the person who is carrying our child, stress is a significant negative in a pregnancy. So that alone, if she's like, listen, this would stress me out, to me, that should just end the conversation. And I know it's like a bit sensitive, like, well, you're going to stop me from seeing my mom and dad. It's like, you moved, dude. You moved across the pond. So there's that too. No one's saying they can't come out as we're all obviously suggesting. She should be there when she could be the most helpful because I don't, you know, I don't know what it's like for Natalie and I, when we're going to have about to have a kid. And we're lucky to obviously have our parents, specifically Natalie's mom,

you know, Natalie's mom is retired and has a pretty flexible life, and she's very easy to be around. So we don't know what it's going to be like. We don't know how our daughter is going to sleep at first. And it is going to be super helpful, I imagine, to have Natalie's mom there early on to help. But I don't want her mom there for the weeks leading up because she's going to be there afterwards. And it's going to be a full house. And we have a house. We don't even have an apartment. My question to him is, why are you so insistent on doing this? I'm sorry, dude. Your emotional needs just aren't as important right now. They're just not. You're not cooking anything inside your oven. And you can be stressed without it affecting the literal health of your child. It's literally dangerous for the mom to be stressed during pregnancy. I mean, yeah, everyone gets stressed

and stress is going to happen, but anything you can do to avoid it is everything you should do. That would be my two cents. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah yeah because it feels like when you're pregnant even if it's an unreasonable ask you like defer to the pregnant woman but this is such a reasonable ask as well yeah it doesn't make even the physical aspects of it of she would have to stay in the nursery that i have yet to finish so how am I supposed to finish a room while someone's living in there for two months? It sounds to me he has too much. This is not an equal relationship. It just can't be.

My gut tells me she has a hard time standing up to him. I could be wrong, and I'm going by a little information, but to the point that this seems so reasonable. Like, Natalie is an incredibly reasonable, compromising person. I would imagine, and as much as she loves my parents, and she does, if I was like, I need my mommy to be here for two months prior to you having a baby,

it wouldn't be a conversation. She'd just say no. Your only focus as a couple, it should be, how do you create your house to be a sanctuary and if it doesn't then you shouldn't do it and that includes your parents and if you need your mom to be there for you to not be a nightmare then therapy anyways i would love to have him come on but i'll be nice i'll be nice but i don't know this i'm trying to understand where he's coming from we're having a hard time understanding i'm imagining most people listening have a hard time i mean she is too she literally says what support i'm the one pushing this thing out you're just watching it happen i also love her it's hard to disagree with her and i say this is currently experiencing

what they're going through like i don't need much support i spent all day yesterday watching football well and that's the thing too we all agree that she should come after four games four games i saw the tv split i was so stoned but i'm like we're all agreeing that they like she can come after support after is so crucial whether it's taking care of the baby laundry food my parents talk about how what a great asset my grandma was during that time of just taking care of the little things that kind of fall through the crack, especially as first-time parents. Asking for the support beforehand, that's where we're confused. And also, clearly, mommy is very overbearing.

Clearly, she seems to have been overbearing with the son. The bed sorts thing is ridiculous. But listen, my advice to our writer-inner is, you've just got to get better at standing up to both of them. And you can do it nicely, but you just have to say no. I mean, honestly, my advice to her is just say, I'm sorry, I know you want your mom there, but it's just not happening.

I would put your foot down. I hope that she can get to a point where she doesn't have to just say no, but just say, it's just really, I can't have this happen. It's going to stress me out. And also, it would be great if your mom could come and help for like a few weeks if it's gonna be two months fine whatever but like it should be after if mom's gonna be that overbearing advice to her right or inner you got to be able to say no to her when the baby comes out about things that you don't want her to do and i'm sure you know mother-in-law will have some great advice but you don't have to listen to everything she says

and she's not the boss of you and it sounds like she's going to try to throw her weight around and be a little bossy because she's used to bossing her son around is my guess you're just gonna have to learn how to stand up to her and calmly because she even says here like this is so nuts to me so i haven't i've been having a hard time being able to talk about this calmly. And then like she even you even call yourself like a crazy psycho pregnant lady. And so I'm sure like, you know, you're getting worked up about this, which is super fair. But the boyfriend might be writing it off as like, oh, her hormones are acting up. You know, like if you're able to talk about this calmly calmly he might be able to see what an insane request it is yeah maybe starting with questions as opposed to exasperated statements such as what support I'm the one pushing this thing out

I don't know again why do you want your mother here for two months she is pregnant and she is going through a lot of emotional changes like of course we want her to do a calm I would say that to everyone like your message gets across better when you're calm

rather than reactive. But as a pregnant person, like, might be hard to do. And it's really on him to recognize that. You know? He doesn't seem great

at that, though. Well, get him on. Get him on. Anyway, sorry you're going through this, but don't let mom come. Or maybe write her.

Reach out to her directly and say, hey, listen, it would mean a lot to me if you came afterwards. I just really want some space and just kind of nest these last two days alone. I want to kind of spend time alone. That's okay. Go above boyfriend? If he's not listening, yeah. Yeah, fair. Yeah. You have to stand your ground on some level. Because right now, if you're telling me that you're saying no and he's saying too bad, that's not acceptable. If there's going to be a too bad coming from anyone, it should be the one carrying the child.

Anyway, we have a great week lined up for you. A jam-packed week for you all. Don't forget to send in those questions at asknickatthevilefiles.com for all things Ask Nick, mediation, texting office hours, sweating the wedding, all of the above. Don't forget, we got Vile Files Plus available to you all. We got a bunch of update specials.

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It's a seven-day free trial. Let's go to vilefiles.com. Click the tab, and you will be checking out a bunch of updates before you know it. You do not want to miss out. I think that's everything. Let's get to our callers. Question time with me. Let's ask Nick your sexy questions how's it going hey i'm alex i'm 31 and i need help

setting boundaries with my mom with her uh sort of unstable romantic relationship okay what's so unstable about it they're just on and off. They've been dating for like a year. And he moved in at the end of June and has already moved out. And then moved back in and left again. And so he's gone to a different state now. And she just doesn't know what's happening with it. And it's all she can talk about.

And I feel like I've given her advice and listened and I just keep hearing the same stories. Yeah. How old's your mom? My mom is 61. Gotcha. And when you say you need help setting boundaries, are you looking for boundaries like for yourself to set with your mom?

Cause she's just kind of annoying you, or are you trying to help your mom set boundaries with herself with this guy so she's not wasting any more time all of the above like what what specifically is the problem that we're trying to solve i mean i feel like all of the above but also mostly with like i spent an hour on the phone with her last night listening to the same story and it's like i don't want to be rude and be like mom i've told you like what i can like i've listened i feel like i've heard the same stories but at the end of the day i think my mom is incredible and she deserves the world and like a non-negotiable for me would be leaving twice you know what i mean yeah how long they've been dating for they were dating for a year so your mom's only known this guy for a year correct

and in that year he moved in way too soon yeah but in that year soon or not too soon or not they've lived together twice they've had too many divorces basically yeah i mean fully packed up all of his stuff um she we were at like a different family function and she was watching on her like rain camera she thought that they were just in an argument and she left and was getting notifications and he was fully moving all of his stuff out like he went through the whole house took out every picture out of every picture frame i mean like left how old's this guy i think around the same age okay other than like storming around and taking all the pictures out and things like that was it is he pretty reactive like what other details you know

about the relationship other than the fact that they've moved in together then he's abruptly moved out twice i think that they don't have very good communication yeah i think that he's more recently out of a divorce than the last like five years i think whereas my mom's been divorced since i was a kid okay and it's hard because she's never really she's had a couple relationships but she's kind of just always put my sister at first and taking care of us and so even though it seemed like it was moving too quickly it was really like if she's happy like all i want is for mom to be happy at the end of the day you know but now it's sort of like when she's in this relationship she's gone and i don't hear from

her she doesn't you know she's fully in it and then as soon as he leaves or they break up it's all i'm getting is like texts and she's coming like last week she just like came over one morning like i have work sorry just imagining mom showing up at like 6 30 with a couple coffees be like are we gonna talk no she came over and was like do you have coffee here oh she didn't even bring coffee that's the damning evidence right there. So what have you said to your mom regarding like boundaries? Have you made any attempt or are you just kind of listening and afraid to upset your mom? Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. She can be reactive and I don't want to. She's already upset about that. Mom can be reactive. Okay. Yeah. she's already upset about this mom can be reactive okay yeah and i don't want her to be like you like don't listen to me or you know i've did everything for you guys and you know i'm upset now and it's like i get that but he left like and she was even saying last night she's like i can't

believe he's left me twice and i'm like yeah but he did he So like, and I think part of it is that she's afraid she's not going to find somebody else. And I totally understand that. Well, I guess I would ask your mom, what specifically are you afraid you won't find again? Like someone who will move out twice? Like what's the quality that you're afraid that you won't replace? She's very much in the, things things were so good except for the bad stuff and literally everyone exactly right i'm like cool that's every relationship once you get out of it like even if things were good like he's in a different state now not coming back the first

time he moved out he where did he go he packed up his car and like went to a like a city nearby um and like stayed at a hotel and he also it's what's the weird thing is he hasn't told any like his kids his family he hasn't told anyone that this is happening he just said like he i guess was like moving out but she doesn't know if they're like he texts her and he's like hey hon how you doing and i'm like block his i told her last night i was like why don't you block but he texts he's moved out and he's still texting her hey hon how you doing correct i know old people have there been times like in your in your mom's relationship like especially maybe when you were younger where you were pursuing something that like wasn't making you happy or was actively making your life harder, where she urged you in a different direction? I mean, yeah, even just recently, she I'm in a really great

relationship. And but it isn't about me anyways. She was like, you need to not bring up your ex in front of like your new relationship. And I was like, she's like, you just need to move on from that. And I was like, OK, like, I get that. But that was also five years of my life. Like, I'm not going to pretend like I didn't exist, I guess. She's like, well, you really just need to move on. And I was like, OK. OK, so you saying that I have I have a different approach to this call because I feel like this is less about

your mom and her boyfriend and more about you and your mom you know to say that you you're calling us and you'll listen to your mom your mom has no problem coming over at the butt crack you know of the morning that doesn't even make any sense of dawn dawn. Of dawn. The butt crack of dawn, I think, is what you're going for. It was like 8.30, but still. Okay, whatever. But mom has no problem. I mean, I have a job. Yeah.

So mom has no problem knowing that, like, maybe she's busy with work and she's just going to show up, not even bring coffee. And you are afraid of saying quite literally anything to your mom. And yet your mom clearly has no problem with kind of being curt, almost to the point of rude at times. You know, that person who's just like, hey, I'm just going to be honest. You know, I got to speak my truth. And so there's obviously this huge power dynamic shift. Well, not shift.

There's this huge power dynamic disparity between you and your mom. Despite you being 31 or in your early 30s and your mom being in her 60s, you still have very much the, your mom, you and your mom's relationship is very much like you're the 12-year-old girl and she's mom and you just don't talk back to mom and you're afraid of offending mom

and mom has all this power and that's what you're both used to. Exactly. And I think part of it is that she did really give up everything. My dad's been married, has always been in a relationship, but she really raised us as a single working mom. And that's amazing. And there's so many different ways that you can show your mom gratitude that has nothing to do with you two, you know, respecting each other as adults and enforcing and setting some just appropriate boundaries, you know, and this might involve, you know, I don't know, maybe upsetting mom, but that's a mom problem. No one's suggesting you start being disrespectful to your mom or talking to her in a way that would be wrong or criticizing your mom. A lot of variables are going into play. To your point, there's clearly a fear of just finding

anyone, especially, I guess, any age, but I think women, especially as they get older, more and more reasons to feel insecure about, you know, can they find someone? Can they connect with someone? I know of people who put up with the craziest shit, kind of like your mom. And just like for whatever reason are just, you know, you're talking about an older person in general who, you know, hasn't really surrounded themselves with conversations about boundaries you know and things like that and your mom comes from a generation that really truly grew up on those kind of toxic rom-coms and stories and the idea that the notebook and the characters in the notebook are actually like kind of two toxic people is it's not even a thought you know

like we're we're kind of changing the conversations nowadays and something like your mom it's a little bit more difficult where you know you just kind of deal with some of this shit it's allowing the good to make up for the bad even though it doesn't you know and in your head your mom is like oh we have so much fun but he's so nice and but oh he texts me and your mom's like, oh, we have so much fun, but he's so nice. But oh, he texts me. And your mom's not thinking, oh, he moved out twice and he did this and this. Yeah, she will to you to complain about it. But what all that does is make the text of, hey, hon, how you doing, feel that much more special and meaningful. And if your mom hasn't been dating for a number of years, you know, that toxic stimulation that we talk about, the drama behind the highs and the lows,

it's probably kind of fun. You know, your mom has a reason to come over to her daughter's house at eight in the morning and gossip, you know, for sure. And it just, if my mom is hot,

like she is like, she's so beautiful and in amazing shape and just a great person. And I'm kind of like, dude, why are you putting up with this? Why are you putting up with this? Well, that's what I need help with. Listen, I think you just need to sit down with mom in the nicest possible way and say, mom, I hope you know how grateful I am of everything you have done. Throw her a bone. Unlike dad, you truly sacrificed your whole life and you gave, make her feel like a little bit more special than dad. That being said, mom, I know when you give me tough love, it's not because you think I'm wrong or stupid or crazy.

It's just that you love me and you want what's best for me. And like, I'm sorry, this, I'm going to start giving you some tough love because like, this is not okay, mom. And you just got to start, start the conversation that way. All the things that she's going to, you're afraid that she is going to say when you start enforcing a boundary and start giving her tough love, all the things that you're, you know, how could you say this to me? I'm your mother, blah, blah, blah. Like I've done all this for you. That's you're anticipating her getting upset and then throwing it all in your face, right? I'm anticipating her just leaving. Okay. Well, that's a start, you know, but I just think, say all the things that you think that she could come back with, lead with that. You've done all this for me.

I'm so grateful. You're amazing. You've done this. I just want you to be happy. You're beautiful. You deserve the world. And I'm sorry if this upsets you, but you deserve more than this. And right now, mom, you're obsessed with the drama of the situation.

You're not investing in the feelings of happiness. You're not prioritizing being happy, mom. You are prioritizing this drama that you're involved in and you're selling yourself short. And if your mom storms out and gets upset, let her throw her temper tantrum. Even 61-year-olds can throw temper tantrums. We never outgrow them.

And whether you're 61 or six, sometimes you just have to let them throw their temper tantrum, but you don't give in. You and your mom need to work on having conversations in conflict. And it sounds like you and mom love each other. You're great. You have this dynamic where mom has no problem telling you what's up and being very direct. And because she's the mom and you're the daughter, you put up with it and you say, yes, ma'am. And yes, mom. But when it's the other way around, mom has no sense of like boundaries or the fact that like, despite you being her daughter, like you're a 31 year old woman, who's not only capable of making her own

choices, but you're also capable of offering some perspective and advice to your mom as well. The dynamic has shifted. You guys can be just as much as friends as a mom-daughter relationship. And as you get older, there's nothing wrong with a parent getting great advice from a kid. But you have to do it respectfully and you have to talk. And if you are going to be the person in power in this dynamic, you have to demonstrate through your actions to not do the same reactive things that mom is going to do, you know? And yeah, it starts by not letting it fester, not letting it build up. So that by the time you speak up, you're a gas casket. What am I fucking saying?

Like erupting. I'm coming up with the weirdest analogies today. A gas casket. An old dog. Like a volcano up with the weirdest analogies today. A gas gasket. An old dog. Like a volcano, you know? Like, yeah. I feel like when I give her advice, because I, of like my sister, my mom,

and I am the only one who's really been in like healthy long-term relationships. And so I try to give her advice based on like how I ended my last relationship or the things that I do with my current relationship. And she's like, I mean, I appreciate that, but I've been around a lot longer. Don't bring you up. Yeah. Don't, don't use you or your sister as an example. You don't need to like bring you into the equation to like articulate to your mom that this behavior that she's putting up

with is unacceptable. You know what I'm saying? Like this is like baseline would be acceptable for anyone. So when you make it about you or your sister, then it almost becomes competitive. And again, keep in mind from the perspective that your mom's coming from, I'm the mom, these are my daughters. And your mom probably very much is proud of that. And there's value behind that feeling that she feels. And so for her children to critique her behavior, especially if she's not used to it, yeah, there's maybe a competitive element. So you mentioning that

you're doing it right or you've done it right and she's doing it wrong, is this going to trigger her? So leave you out of it. You say, mom, you've raised me to be a wonderful woman who respects herself and doesn't put up with yada, yada, yada. I'm so grateful the way you raised me. And so I want to pay it forward because I know when I'm triggered and I'm invested in someone, it's hard for me to see the forest or the trees. So I'm just paying it forward to you, mom. I'm just basically reminding you of the things that you taught me. I'm reminding you know standing up for myself the way you taught me to stand up for myself if you're gonna make it about you like yeah give your mom all the credit but as far as like well you know something i did in my relationship you know make sure that your mom feels like

anything you do in your relationship you learn from her whether it's true or not and just almost make her feel like that she is just not seeing it because she's like everyone else who gets emotionally invested in a situation, you know, is not thinking as clearly as they otherwise would. It's easy to give advice when you're not emotionally invested, which is why it was always easy for your mom to like, say to you, like, don't do that or stop calling your ex or blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And, you know know but when your mom is invested it's so there's always we can always justify our actions because it's different for us and we're emotionally invested so would you get your mom on here well get the when she shuts up at eight in the morning call us i'm scared that she's gonna hear this and get mad at me um but you're doing this because you love her you know and i think that's the message that you

really need to like really push on her and articulate that you like at the end of the day, mom, I just want you to be happy. And it makes me sad that you're wasting so much of your wonderful energy, uh, on this guy who just, you don't deserve to be treated this way. And if your mom is going to get upset at you for saying that, let her. Let her throw her temper. And again, when we throw temper tantrums, it's not because we're deeply offended and wrong. It's because deep down, we know we heard something that cuts a little deep and we know it's true. And we're just not emotionally ready to accept that. So instead of being like, thank you for that really sage advice, we stomp our feet and

we scream and we call people names., thank you for that really sage advice, we stomp our feet and we scream and we, you know, call people names. How could you say that? You know, but like, you know, you know, you're fucking, you know, when we see someone do that, you're like, well, thank you for the validation that I'm right. You know, like. Yeah. I just what if she won't move on? And at what point do I say like that?

I don't want to hear about this anymore. Not yet. First, have that converse, because right now it sounds like you really haven't talked to her about it you're just listening I'm listening but then I I'm trying to just tell her like basically you are so incredible and I think that you deserve the world and I just I don't think that you deserve this and

you wouldn't allow you wouldn't want me to be sitting around waiting for this and you know I don't want she's like maybe it's six months maybe it's two years and he comes back and I'm like are you you going to sit around and wait until then? Like that, that's a bummer. Well, you got to put yourself in your mom's shoes. Like you're saying she didn't do a lot of dating while she raised you. So this is a woman who one isn't used to, or needs to necessarily date around. And again, she's from an older generation where she's not

part of like hookup culture while having multiple partners or going on multiple dates is something that she even wants to consider. You know, she's coming from a generation that really is this like, once I like someone, I'm just going to fucking suffer through it because that's just what you do. I have firsthand experience of what you're going through, not necessarily through my parents, but people I know. And I know that their sons and daughters have said to their parents, like, I don't want to hear about it anymore. It's a slow process, as all I'm saying is,

I don't think your mom's going to fire you as her daughter. She needs you as much as you need her at this point in both your lives. Also, I think, right now. Exactly. So when you want to confront your mom, six-year-old you comes out. You become the little girl who's just like,

I can't say this to my fucking mom. And that fear of what that's going to mean to stand up to your mom. Your mom's just not going to leave you. She's not going to fire you. And that fear of like, if I do this, I might lose my protector, my parent who's going to protect me and take care of me. And I need my mom. And that's why,

for me, I can sit here and say, why is it so hard to just stand up to your mom? She's not going anywhere. She needs you more than you need her probably at this point. But in the moment, six-year-old you comes out. And that's where you're having a hard time doing what should be generally basic and simple, which is lead with love, say some tough conversations. Eventually, it gets to the point where you do feel exhausted and you say, again, with love, mom, I love you and I want to be there for you. But we've had this conversation and I strongly feel that this is not a healthy relationship for you because of that. I need to just say, we can't talk about this anymore because you're not doing anything different. You're just

ruminating over the same thing. We can't do that anymore. You wouldn't let me do this if the roles were reversed. And because I love you, I can't let you have this conversation with me. I think you deserve more. And let her throw her temper tantrum. Let her storm out. Let her avoid talking to you for a week or whatever, whatever passive aggressive or aggressive thing that she does when she's angry at anyone. And just know that your mom's not going anywhere. And then in the time when your mom's ignoring you, you can breadcrumber with like Texas

about, hey, thinking about you. I love you. Hey, how you doing? Missing you. I hope, you know, I know you're upset, but like, I really, I'm always here for you, but like you deserve better. Come over for a wine night and we'll go through dating apps together. Like be involved in your mom's dating life. If she will allow you just offer the opportunity, but just know that your mom isn't going anywhere she's not going to fire you it's also like hard to not be mad at someone who's mad at you you know i'm assuming when your mom i just feel like i don't want to cause her more she's already heartbroken i don't want to cause her more she'll be she'll live but yeah it's you're not causing her more pain your mom getting angry at you for setting boundaries and trying to offer her tough love

is not causing your mom more pain. It might be upsetting her and she might be more reactive, but you feel confident that this situation that your mom has accepted and involved herself in is causing her the sadness and pain other than like her being entertained by the drama. But if she gets mad at you for doing this, she's choosing to be mad at you. And it's not because you're causing her more pain. And I have no doubt she will say that to you. She might hit you with some guilt. She's in some shame. And how could you do this? You know I'm hurting. How could I count on you? And how could you do this to me

knowing what I'm going through? Again, that's the temper tantrum. That's your mom's six-year-old self coming out. But you're not hurting your mom. Boundaries are important for us. When you have kids, it's important to keep some boundaries. And if you're a parent and your kid is misbehaving and you enforce a boundary with them and they stomp their feet and scream and cry, you know, like, you know, you're not hurting them. They're upset. It's the same thing with your mom. It doesn't matter that she's 61. It really doesn't. Because when we get triggered, we resort back to that kind of emotional, like childlike self. We go into our reptilian brains. We go into fight or flight mode.

And like I said, it just doesn't matter if you're 61 or six. So you just have to know that you're not hurting your mom by enforcing a boundary and hitting her with tough love. And her throwing things in your face and stomping her feet and throwing a temper tantrum is just a reaction to being frustrated that she's not getting what she wants? And it's also a sign that deep down, she knows that you're speaking truth to her.

If nothing else, it is fun drama for her. And she maybe just enjoys having girl talk with you and gossiping. It was fun, like the first one hour conversation, but now it's happening all the time. And I'm just like, bro, I have stuff to do. Well, don't say it like that. You want to give your mom the impression, not that you don't have time for her. You don't think it's healthy to allow her to keep ruminating over the same toxic situation and have her not consider the possibility

of accepting that this situation isn't the one for her or isn't healthy for her because to your point she's kind of in this like i'm gonna sit around forever i'm just gonna wait for him and that's the way you hit her with mom you would never let me do that. You wouldn't be okay with a guy treating me this way. And I love you too much to be okay with letting a guy treat you like this and having you accept it as normal. Yeah, basically exactly what it is. So I guess I'm just nervous that

if he does come back around, then I have to just be fine with it. I don't know. No, I mean, if you watch, you could go so far as to say, mom, like if you're happy at the end of the day, I'm happy, but I'm really uncomfortable with this relationship.

But we have a lot of things to talk about, but I don't want to talk about this because ultimately I don't think it's healthy. And you can set that boundary and your mom can get upset with you. I just- Two weeks ago, she brought him over. Well, she's not afraid of you enfor set that boundary and your mom can get upset with you. I just- Two weeks ago, she brought him over. Well, she's not afraid of you enforcing your boundary.

The power dynamic between you and your mom's relationship is all on one side. It hasn't changed much since when you were six or 12, so to speak. And so you have to find that kind of courage and the words and the confidence to know that I love my mom. My mom loves me.

I'm not hurting her. I'm actually helping her. And I'm going to make sure I say all the things that will make her feel good. But if my mom throws a temper tantrum, I just have to let her throw a temper tantrum. You have to treat her like she's six. Because again, it doesn't matter if you're 60 or 30 or 20 or six, that when we get triggered, we just turn into a childlike self. So again, if you're using that analogy of a six-year-old, if you try to enforce a boundary with a six-year-old and they stomp their feet, and then all of a sudden you're like, oh, I don't want to upset my six-year-old. And oh my God,

am I hurting my six-year- old? And instead of putting him in the corner or putting him in a timeout, you're like, oh my God, you're crying. Oh no, here's some ice cream. Do you think that child would change their behavior? Do you think you would get through to them? I don't think so. No, of course not. You would never do that with a six year old. But you're doing that with your mom. So you just have to bear down and see that six-year-old child in your mom. And when she throws that temper tantrum, you don't give her ice cream. You let her calm down. You let her come back to you when she's ready to have that conversation that you know you're entitled to have. And like you would a six-year-old, even though you're

punishing them and enforcing a boundary, you're still saying, I love you. I'm there for you. I'm not leaving. I'm still here for you, but you can't do that. That's not okay. And until you understand that, time out. Should I use the finger like you're doing? No.

But you're just not enforcing these boundaries. And I'm just here to say, mom ain't going anywhere. And in the moment your mom realizes that you're able to enforce a boundary and you're able to stay calm when she reacts, that she'll come around and you're just kind of reshaping the dynamic with you and your mom's relationship. So what are we going to do next? I just think that the next time i see her or she we talk um i'm just going to continue to enforce that you know i love her and i think she deserves better than this but if she continues to just want to live in like the drama of it i guess or re like well be careful how you use that like

don't you i'm saying i won't say that to her yeah i mean eventually you might have to say that but we're you haven't really enforced your boundary yet so start small and just say hey mom like i see how upset you are even when you talk about it with me you get upset and i just, I'm confident that this relationship isn't serving you well. And as much as I want to be there to listen, when we talk now, it's always about the same thing. You're just ruminating over the same topic. It hurts me to see how much this situation is impacting you and hurting you. I wish that you would move on from this guy and I can't make you do it, but I do feel strongly that you ruminating it and you talking about it still is just keeping you in this kind of unhealthy

situation. So I just don't think it's healthy for me to keep talking about it with you because unless there's something new, you know, I feel like talking about the same thing over and over is just keeping you stuck yeah that's i mean that's exactly how i feel so that just articulated it better than i can and and then when she throws her temper tantrum don't don't do the natural thing which would be to like if she's mad at you i'm gonna be mad at her she storms out you just like you hit it with a hey mom i understand that you're this upset i would be upset too, but I love you and I'm here for you. And I can't wait to talk to you about everything but this. Yeah. Right. Like there's other stuff in the world. having a relationship with her daughter and humbling herself to realize that her daughter

can be a valuable like mentor in her life and a valuable friend and someone that she can learn from i promise you she'll choose the latter okay all right well keep us posted i'm uh we're invested we want to know uh because uh i think the mother daughter uh dynamic is something many of our listeners struggle with. It's tough, you know? Parents are bullies. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they're great, but they're also bullies.

Yeah. They're amazing, but bullies. Stop coming over in the morning. Bring your own coffee. Yeah. All right. Keep us posted. We definitely want to follow up.

Thank you so much. All right. I appreciate it. Thank you. All right. Take care. Bye-bye. Thank you so much.

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Wondery. Even the Rich. Oh, they're back. You know them. Even the Rich, the hit podcast that gives you the behind-the-scenes scoop with some of your favorite iconic celebrities that talk about their rise, the fame, and the tumultuous drama that constantly goes on. Selena Quintanilla was a force of nature, but when a loyal friend betrayed her,

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You can binge Even the Rich, Viva, Selena, right now, ad-free on Wondery Plus. Plus, get started with your free trial at wondery.com slash plus. How's it going? Hi, my name's Erin. I'm 28 years old. I had a threesome and everybody caught feelings. Okay. What's your relationship status? I'm single. Okay. Who did you have a

threesome with? I had a threesome with one of my best friends and her, at the time, kind of a fuck buddy. Okay. So three women? No, a woman and a man. Okay. And the best friend is the man? My best friend is a woman. Their name is Nat. Okay. So you had a threesome with your woman best friend and her fuck buddy. Yeah. His name is Rory.

Rory. Okay. So Nat is the best friend. Nat's the best friend. Rory is her fuck buddy. Yeah. Now everybody caught feelings. And who did you catch feelings with? I caught feelings for the man, for Rory's her fuck buddy. Yeah. Now everybody caught feelings. And who did you catch feelings with?

I caught feelings for the man, for Rory. Okay. And how does Nat feel about Rory? I believe that they're just friends, that they aren't sleeping. I don't think that they've been having that friends with benefits relationship for a while before the threesome happened. So I think they're just kind of friends what was your relationship with rory before you had the threesome like what prompted the threesome yeah like yeah can we get a little story about like how the threesome even

happened yeah so um i had this really great relationship going on with nat and she had told me about rory a few times and like she defines herself as gay but I guess the whole reason why she told me about him was because she had this like one kind of male validation we had like talked about that topic um so that kind of relationship going on with him and so I heard a lot about him we all met up at like a little basement bar a concert thing one night and like it happened that night so it was the first night i met him that we had the threesome and where into that night where was there like was the idea of a threesome on the table or did this organically just happen i think that nat had it in her head that it could happen. I've also been vocal with her about how I've had those experiences before.

So I'm not really uncomfortable with it. Okay. And then, yeah. I don't know if Rory had it in his head at all. But him knowing both of us are queer, I'm sure that he was thinking it a little. I don't know. So you also date women. By the way, he was looking at me.

Gotcha. You also date women as well? Yeah. Okay. And you said that Nat identifies more as gay, not bisexual. So Rory is just kind of an outlier for her. Yes. So when you said everyone catches feelings, what's the love triangle in your head? Okay. So nat had a conversation

with me about a week later after the threesome that she had was having feelings for me again because it's a conversation we've had before i didn't have feelings for rory right after the threesome but it like a month later there was another interaction between him and I where I slept with him alone and then I was like oh and does does Nat know about that no I haven't told her because I am nervous that's why I'm calling no I'm just trying to understand my priority like I want to manage this relationship with her and um I don't want to hurt her feelings and And so, yeah, she does not know. The timeline is a week after threesome, Nat said, hey, I have feelings for you again. But a month after you slept with Rory. Correct. Yeah.

The three of us all went to a concert in a nearby city and I drove. So I dropped her off first and then I dropped him off and then I stayed with him. And we hooked up. And what did you say to Nat after you? she said, I had feelings for you again. I said, I know we've had this conversation before twice already. And I said that it's not like there's no feelings there for me, but I want to be really sure if we're going to go there, that we're like going there. I really want to be sure. And that conversation was about, I don't know, a month and a half ago or something. And I, again, I'm just trying to understand the details.

I'm not trying to, but so to be clear, she, a week later after the threesome, she said, Hey, I think I'm still having feelings for you again. And your response was some version of, I'm not sure where I'm at, but if we do anything, I want to make sure it's super committed and we go all the way. So you, you hit her with some hope. Yeah. I wanted to be sure that I had, that it was romantic feelings because the friendship that we have. And as I've thought about this more, I'm thinking like the way that I treat my friends is very like relationship-y. I think it's because I've been single for a long

time I mean I'm sure a lot of people could relate to that like yeah I had I picked her up from the airport recently and like got her flowers and like her apartment kind of and I realized that that was probably really confusing thing for me to do yeah well that's what I mean and then we kiss like a week after that on the full moon like we all went skimming to meet her and another, a different friend, a girl. And like, after I was driving her home and she was like,

can I kiss you? And I did kiss her. And then I dropped after she got out of the car. I was like, Oh no. Yeah. That was romantic. And like,

I didn't feel it. I think you got yourself in a bit of a pickle. The queer experience. Because all you've done is give her hope and this is a very common thing where we get stuck in what feels like a very awkward situation about feelings and we do care about this other person my gut tells me that the week after she confronted you with feelings that your response wasn't 100 honest That it was kind of honest. Like, I don't think you were lying to her

when you said that you value her and you care about her. I don't think you were lying to her when you said, I'm not really sure how I feel, but if we do something, I want it to be all the way. But I think the truth is that deep down, you just didn't feel the same way about her as she felt about you. To me, deep down, you already know't feel the same way about her as she felt about you. To me, deep down, you already know that.

Yeah, it's never been all the way for me. Yeah. So you avoided the hard truth because you didn't want to upset her. And so to diffuse the situation, you hit her with hope. Yeah. I think part of me too was just like, I feel like I should want to be with her. Like everything about our relationship is everything I want, except it's just like not the little, like, it's honestly probably just like lacking the sexual spark or whatever,

like that little connection. So I think at that moment, you're right. Like I probably, I wasn't really any in any different place than I am right now, or I had been in the past when we had the conversation, but I wanted to be like, I should, I should, I should want this. Yeah, I get it. But there's a lot of people we are compatible with and have chemistry with that aren't our person, you know, and I don't know if you believe in one and only or anything like that. But I believe that there's a million, literally millions of people we can be connected with and feel attracted to and have value. Yeah, I agree with that.

And I don't know what you're looking for in terms of a long-term relationship, but if you are looking for eventually to be in a monogamous relationship, you are in fact looking for one. And if you are looking for one, then you're going to run into a lot of people who are good, but not the one. You're going to run to a lot of people who are good, but not the one. And you can't use good as an excuse to stay in a situation that deep down, you know, as good as it is, isn't the one for you. And your avoiding the truth has created an even stickier situation because it sounds

like to me that Nath has every right to be really hurt and really upset with you whenever you hit her with the truth. Except, yes, yes. But I've told her this before. But we have, you know, I'm not saying you did something wrong and I'm not trying to make you feel bad. And I'm not like, you know, like you did a very human thing. I'm just preparing you for the fact that Nat is going to get upset. Most likely that she is. She's not going to be thinking about, Oh,

we had this conversation before. She's going to be thinking about the hope that you gave her and the betrayal of going behind her back and sleeping with Rory, especially if she asked for details, which is like, you know, she's going to, it's going to hurt.

I have to tell her that. No, but I think she's going to ask. And I think you're going to be, have to decide whether you want to lie to her or tell her the truth. No, I don't want to lie to her. I just don't think I, I mean, to her knowledge, like I've never even hung out with Rory one-on-one. Yeah. So I'm just saying like, let's just, let's just play it out. You're like, hey, Annette, we need to talk. I want to be honest with you i value your friendship i care about you and there's something

that's being anyway at me like rory and i hooked up we've had sex without you and she's going to be like when and you can choose to be vague or cryptic but the more vague and cryptic you are the more she's going to sense that you're that there's a truth that you are avoiding telling her you know and then she's going to be like we'll win and you're going to be like well that one night we went to the concert together and i dropped you off like i stayed at his house and that's going to really hurt her feelings i don't think you can't get through it i was going to post the topic more like i feel like you're on the hook about the whole feelings thing and i want to address it i can tell that she wants to talk about it i guess i thought i would just be able

to be more like addressing the feelings between her and I and I guess I all I can really do is just tell her I value her as a friend and like I maybe yeah I guess the right thing to do is tell her about sleeping with Rory because you just it's a truth that you know she's gonna have an opinion about yeah and you're you're you're avoiding telling her so it's yeah you're right and if i want to be real friends with her like i have to tell her yeah and you gotta let her get mad at you and you're gonna have to figure out whether she can forgive you or get through it if she like me a lot less i mean listen at the end of the day whether whether you're queer or straight or whatever the same rules apply when it comes to friendship and if you listen to this show you've heard me

tell a lot of straight people you're not friends you may not be in a relationship but you're not just friends and if she has feelings for you you're not just friends so you either need to reset expectations with her and have her accept that you're only capable and willing to be her friend and she needs to decide whether she wants to have you in her life under these new parameters and understanding what this is. Yeah. Because she can't keep lying to herself

about what this relationship is. It's not just a friendship relationship. Her feelings have evolved. And if you keep avoiding the truth, then you're both going to keep kind of doing this weird thing where you're kind of avoiding the truth, but like it's not necessarily lying, but it's not totally honest. And you're both going to keep doing that because you're trying to, you're just avoiding the reality,

which is there are feelings involved. And she doesn't want to just be your platonic friend because your platonic friends, you talk about the people you're having sex with. You ask for their advice with the people you're dating you know those are your friends this is something completely different yeah and i want that comfortability like which up to her if she wants to give it to me but like yeah ever since the threesome or ever since she told me she had feelings again the friendship changed a little for me because i was like oh wait this is somebody who's like maybe wanting to sleep with me again or wanting to like kiss me or like the friendship changed for me and it wasn't like the same amount of i don't want to say trust but it just like it's different i was

thinking of it differently so yeah i mean i don't know how you're gonna handle or want to handle it i just think the best thing for you to do in the long run and that's how i always think i think long run you know i don't really care about short run. Short run includes fights, there includes feelings of betrayal, includes maybe you guys not talking for a period of time, but in the long run, if there is a relationship or a friendship to save, the truth is going to be what gets you there, you know? And it's going to have to include something like, listen, I just need, can we sit down and talk? I just, I need to be upfront with you. And I know you have every right to be upset.

You have every right to be angry with me. I don't know if you're going to be able to accept this, but I hope that we can be friends. And as friends, I don't like that. I feel like I haven't been totally honest with you and I don't feel the same way you feel. And also this happened. She's going to feel used by you. She's going to feel like you went behind her back.

You know, she's going to have a right to feel like she shouldn't be introducing you to other people. You know? Yeah, that's true. You know, it's honestly not much different than if you both were just straight and she had this fuck buddy. And I stole him. Yeah. Okay. That's so gross.

Okay. Yeah. I love your reaction i just mean like it's so bad not gross like to sleep with the same person i just mean that's not nice i assume that in the queer community it's easier to lie to yourself about these things because the lines are so blurred her consistency is i'm gay i'm not even bisexual so it was probably you that was a she's not even interested yeah that was an opportunity for people like oh, oh, she's not even interested. Yeah, that was an opportunity for you to be like, oh, it's not even a big deal. But deep down, you knew it was a big deal because it's about her feelings towards you.

And she introduced you guys. There's a reason why you avoided telling her the truth because you knew deep down, regardless of what you told yourself, what excuses you made for the situation, you knew it would hurt her. And you didn't want to hurt her and you didn't want her to feel, and you didn't want to feel bad. And so you avoided the truth and you have to own that you have to give her the permission to be mad at you and have every right to not want to talk to you but the reason why you're being up front is because you

do care about her and even though you don't feel about her in a romantic way the same way she feels about you you do value her and you just want to be up front and if she's willing to like forgive you then you are here to like work on this friendship do not give her false sense like we do this thing and everyone does it gay straight we're it doesn't matter yeah we avoid difficult situations and we think that hope is helping these people you know because we're avoiding disappointment what it does is just it makes it worse in the long run next time something like this happens instead of like avoiding what you know deep down is that you just don't feel the same way if that first week she's like hey by the way these feelings have come up and you and you hit her with the truth being like nat you know i care about you

you know i value as a friend that was a lot of fun but I just don't feel that way. And I just want to be upfront with you. And then had you hooked up with Rory, she still might've been mad, but you didn't lie to her. You were upfront with her and she can be salty about you having feelings for Nate, but she couldn't get mad at you for being dishonest or going behind her back. Yeah. So I only pointed that out so that in the future, you don't make the same mistake by convincing yourself that avoiding the truth in the short run and hitting it with hope was that was the best solution because you've realized it made a difficult situation even worse. I could do that.

Okay. And then what do you want to do with Rory? So, okay. do with what do i do with rory so okay with him what i wanted to do was like give some kind of like definitive like this this is how i'm feeling like are you interested are you not kind of a thing but now i feel like i don't know i feel like he's not it's kind of like that if he was he would kind of a thing i don't know i mean okay after we initially hooked up I went over to his house one day to like pick up stuff that I left there and we went for a walk on the beach we were like talking about deep things like I got the impression that he wanted to spend time with me and like

learn about me he like directly asked me like what are you looking for and I had like taken two hits of like a joint so I like was very shocked by the question from him I think because I had like taken two hits of like a joint. So I like was very shocked by the question from him, I think, because I had a little bit of a crush. So I like didn't really give a direct answer. And then he said back to me, he was like, oh, so you don't really know what you want. And I was like, no, that's not true. Like, I do know what I want. But so like then after I left that interaction, I was like in my head and I was thinking like

I need to clarify to him. Like, no, I know exactly what I'm looking for. Tried to make plans with him again. I was like, do you want to go paddle boarding? Like, do you want to do like whatever? And he was like at a bachelor or a bachelor party or whatever. And so then that didn't happen, but he never really comes back at me being like, oh, I'm not available right now. I'll be back Wednesday. Like, what are your plans? Like, what's your Tuesday looking like? He never really comes back at me like that. This past Saturday, I tried to make plans with him.

He wasn't solid about it. He was like, oh yeah, I'll text you an hour, let you know where we're at. And I could tell after an hour of him not texting me, I was like, he's not going to. And then he texted, did not text me again until 1 a.m being like hey hi hello and i did not respond because i actually what i actually did was just stay in and sleep because i like never get a night off i work a lot and i'm in school so i saw it the next morning and i was like yeah

okay so i see what he thinks of me well i i don't i have no idea what he thinks and either do you but you're not a good communicator and you're you're playing a lot of games i don't know if i were him i would be fucking confused too you know and like guys you know i think that's what i was wondering like am i confusing him probably and like he might just be like i don't know what is his understanding of of nat in that relationship is he and so we've talked about it him and i? Is he in? So we've talked about it. Him and I have talked about it a lot. We've talked a lot about dating and like what we're looking for. And I don't understand those conversations, how he's not like, oh, my God, you are exactly.

We have so much common interest, but whatever. But you also come you sound to me like someone who just isn't sure what they want and is kind of in this kind of complicated these situations you're you're not a good communicator and so he's just like you know what i don't know she's not that serious but she's fun you know what i want though but you're not communicating that so do i do that i feel like i've tried to but like that's the thing you haven't tried i don't know you have like wow we have a good sexual connection and then we have a lot of things in common. So from my perspective, I'm like, I want to get to know you more. Sure. I feel like I've reached out to try to make plans to do that. And I'm not really getting a lot back until it

involves me, but touching his body. And then suddenly he's, you know, you know, well, yeah, he's a guy. So, you know, but your, your relationship has been based off of sex. It's a sexual relationship. You both are guilty of the foundation of your relationship is sex. And that's something if you want to change it, you're going to have to have conversations with them about that. But right now, you're not in any type of committed relationship. You're both kind of guessing about your feelings. And while what you claim is direct is far from it. What you claim is direct is far from it. You know, I text him at 11 o'clock and like, it's not you being direct. It's all that it's as direct is that you come across as someone who taxes him when you're free at your convenience. And if he's available and you're available, then you guys are down to fuck. And it doesn't matter if you've talked deep about conversations.

It's 2023. It's hookup culture. People are used to having deep conversations with strangers and fucking and never talking again. Unfortunately, that's the new world we are living in. People are really good at avoiding expectations and they're really good at getting naked and having sex with people they don't know much about. And it gets very confusing. And so you can't assume that just because you're sleeping with someone and having deep conversations that you're on the same page, unfortunately, anymore. Throw in the fact that you had a relationship started with a threesome and he's aware of the fact that your lesbian friend has feelings for you.

He's just like, holy shit, this is a lot, but we can still fuck. You know? So I do think that if you like him, you need to just come. You have two people that you need to just come you need you have two people that you need to come clean with and then you first you need to ask yourself does uh the outcome of my relationship with Nat have any impact on on the conversation I want to have with Rory does it no I truly don't think that she'll be I think she'll be upset that I maybe wasn't forward with her and about the feelings thing but I don't think she's going to care about me having a

relationship with Rory okay great so we know what she's going to care about me having a relationship with Rory. Okay, great. So we know what we're going to do with Nat. So have that conversation sooner than later. People do this thing. This is you'll convince yourself is why,

well, maybe I shouldn't have the conversation. Cause I don't know if I want to marry him. I don't know if you want to marry him either. He doesn't know if he wants to marry you. I don't know if I'm just looking for validation from him. And then like, once I get to know him,

I'm like, like that could be true. You're right. What you need and what you haven't done is say, Rory, since we've been hanging out, I'm sorry if I've been confusing and I'm sorry if I haven't been direct, but I have a crush on you, whatever you want to call it. I think I'm developing feelings for you. I see potential in us. That's as far as I know how I feel. I don't know if we want to get in a relationship. Do you match that? Are you curious? Do you want to explore? Are you interested in seeing where this can go? That's what you want to find out. But you have to say that directly,

and then you have to hold them accountable to giving you an answer to that thing. And that thing is, you want to see if there's something to explore and you're interested in how willing he is to make whatever this is a priority and setting some basic expectations on, let's go on a date. And if that's not interested to you, if you know that this is just physical, that's totally okay. No, I can't do that. I can't. No, I know. But you just say it's okay. That's how he feels, but I don't want to do this anymore. And you just hit him with the truth of how you feel. There's no... And give him the option to respond to the truth. Because right now, he's not responding to the truth. He's just responding to late night texts.

Or he's responding to you not responding. He's to like kind of confusing actions that you're putting out there okay i guess this is why i've been single for like seven years you and me both unclear with people i'm gonna be direct yeah it and simple and direct don't over complicate it you're not proposing to him you're not asking him to move in you're not asking him to be your boyfriend you're just saying i'm interested in you i want to explore this i really enjoyed my time with you i think there's something there do you feel the same way and if not that's okay but i i don't want to i'm not looking to like fuck around and and no hard feelings you know totally okay i just want to

know where you stand because i've spent a lot of time wondering how you feel, and I just figure I might as well tell you how I feel and see how you feel. Well, now we have a plan. We have a plan, but Nat first. Nat first. Got it, I got a plan. We definitely need an update when you have one.

I will, for sure. Thank you so much. I'm very curious about how this all goes. This is a big step for you. It sounds like you're not only reflecting about this situation, but you're kind of reflecting on all these past relationships over the past seven years and how you've communicated with them and reasons why you've just, you know, drag things out and kind of been avoidant. Yeah. Cause I do a lot of therapy. I do a lot of PTSD, like EMDR, all that. I think about myself

a lot and how I can be better. But this is an area that I'm just stuck in, like you just described. Oh, maybe that's another topic for your therapist. I'm noticing that I'm avoiding just being direct with people and clarifying my feelings that deep down I know I have, but I just find when I'm in the position to have these conversations, I make excuses for myself as to why now's not the good time to have it and et cetera, et cetera. And then I kind of play games with the people I'm dating and I play games with myself. And I'd love to work on being more confident and having these conversations and communicate that with your therapist so that they can hold you accountable. We'll do. We'll do our best. But if you're already investing in a therapist, you might as well bring up these issues that

you're realizing. I'll update all of you. Great. Yeah. We're dying to know. So we're fully invested. Okay, great. All right.

Thank you so much, everybody. Good luck. We appreciate the story. All right. All right. I guess I'll talk to you guys. All right. Take care.

Love the sweater. Great sweater. All right. All right. I guess I'll talk to you guys. All right. Take care. Love the sweater. Great sweater. All right. Bye. Bye. Ladies and gentlemen. What are you doing? What do you mean?

I'm making it simple. I'm making the promo. Just keep it simple. Just say, hey, we're the bra bros. Two guys that talk about Bravo. Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, we're the bra bros. No. Oh, dude. the Brav Bros. No. Oh.

Dude, stop with the voice. Just keep it simple. I've seen promos on TV, dude. This is how you get the fans engaged. This is how you get listeners. We're trying to get listeners here.

If we just say, oh, we're two dudes that talk about Bravo, people are going to get tired of it already. We need some oomph. All right, then fine. Let's try to do it

with your voice. Brav Bros. Good job. How's it going? Hi, Ianna i'm 21 and i'm wondering if i should cut off my boyfriend's toxic family okay how do you plan on doing that while still dating your boyfriend my boyfriend and i are wondering if we should both do it because um we are talking plans of marriage, plans of babies, and we don't know if them in the picture is necessarily going to give us anything positive. Toxic how? How are they toxic?

So I guess we can start at the beginning. When I started dating my boyfriend, I noticed some behaviors that were kind of weird, but we had first just started dating, and I didn't want to be person that's like nitpicking his relationship with his family because family's important to me. So, um, things like he would, his mom would ask him for money. She would be like money, money, um, sign question mark, question mark. And then he would send her like 300 or $400. And I would be like, Oh, well, that's kind of weird. But I didn't press on it. The longer we started dating, I realized he didn't have a savings account. And he was 24. So I thought that was a little bit weird. I asked him about it. And turns out his mom doesn't have a job.

He never has. And his siblings and her him take care of her. And there's no reason she shouldn't have a job. She's not. Nothing's wrong with her she would also have like panic attacks when he was gone too long she would call him and be like oh i don't feel good i don't feel good i need you to come home right now he also has pays all the bills in their house all the siblings so he does his phone the phone bill he did how many siblings does he have electricity he has five okay so he was taking care of basically all of them. So this went down all the beginning of us dating. And then she, so they have all their cars. Their dad like fixed cars, basically.

Like he would buy them and then fix them. And then they would just have them. And the mom tried to charge them $300 each for the car a month. On top of the $400 that they were already giving her. And they weren't paying for these cars. So there's no reason for the kids to be giving them $300. And when my boyfriend said, like, no, he wasn't interested in doing that, she kicked him out. And he left the house, took all his shit.

And the car that he was driving was under his sister's name. And they reported that car stolen. And he got arrested and spent the night in jail. And we never heard from the family for two weeks after that. And they didn't say anything. And they knew exactly what happened. Okay. Where's the dad in the picture?

The dad is kind of absent at this point. He has a little bit of a drug habit that he got into. The dad tries to like be a voice of reason, but no one really takes him seriously at this point. Okay. And so to be clear, you're considering cutting off his entire family? It's just them. Like it's just his siblings and mom.

They don't have anyone else. Okay. But still. Yeah. Cutting't have anyone else. Okay. But still. Yeah. Cutting off their entire family. The sisters, siblings. So the mom doesn't even speak English.

So the sister would have had to been the one that called the police on him. And reported the car stolen since it wasn't her name. And there's been a whole bunch of other things with his sisters that they just haven't sat right. The sister and I got pregnant around the same time last year um i had a miscarriage so obviously that didn't work out she didn't and i guess um during some problems with the family her and her mom said that i was jealous um that my baby didn't live to be, you know, like hers. I'm so sorry. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, that's, I'm sure, tough.

And I'm sorry. It's fine. But family's so important to me. And when I was pregnant, that's the reason why, like, I wanted this to work so bad. Because, like, when I have kids, like, I want them to be able to like know his family. You know what I mean?

You know, the reporting is stolen. That's that was shitty. That sucked. It just sounds like cutting them off might be a little extreme. I think maybe we should start with trying to like set some boundaries and then trying to enforce them. So this has been going on for like three years. So that wasn't the first year of our relationship. so this has been going on for like three years so that wasn't the first year of our relationship we started talking again to them um when I got pregnant because his youngest sister she um really

like started to become my friend a lot and like wanted to like get to know me and I was like cool we became really close and she was like opening up to me saying that um all this financial abuse is still going on because at that time like my boyfriend was out of the house and she was like, it's still going on with all of us. It's like financial and emotional abuse that's happening in the house. And like, I just want to get out. And she was like, I want to do like what my boyfriend had did. And I was like, you should like if that's what's good for like your mental health.

Like, I applaud you do it. And she was like, could I come stay with you? And I was like, like, I don't really want to be involved. My boyfriend's like, just let her stay like they're, they're not gonna know. So I let her come here. She stayed a couple nights, and the mom was like calling her like crazy. And the older sister was pregnant at this time. And the older sister called her and told her like, I going to lose my baby if you don't come home because you're stressing me out so much. And after that, the mom was assuming she was with me because we had become close. And the mom was saying, like, all of this is my fault.

Like, I'm the reason why she left. She's been acting different ever since we became friends. reason why she left. She's been acting different ever since we became friends. But like, I'm not like that person that's like wanting to pull people away from their family. Like I really want us to all be a family. You know what I mean? But it's like, I'm the scapegoat. I feel like, like I'm being blamed for a lot of things just because like I'm an outsider and they don't really have a lot of outsiders because they don't have friends or family. Well, yeah. And they're kind of insulated and, and mom and sister seem to be holding the power and anyone who kind of doesn't comply is a threat.

Exactly, exactly how the dynamic is. But I'm just saying, it still doesn't mean you have to cut them off. It just means you can just have a relationship from a distance and have some very defined boundaries. And where does your boyfriend fall in all this? He will fight with them and they will fight until like they're screaming at each other

and all of them do it. He has to learn not to fight with her. Yeah, exactly. And he thinks that if we just try to be like cordial, it's fake of us because they are talking about us they are like what is fake about saying hey listen i don't like the way you like treat us or speak to us but you're family and i still love you and i i'm not going to be okay you know i'm just not going to respond to this behavior but you know when and if you're ever willing to like have a conversation or have a relationship we're here and that's boundary. And if they don't respect that boundary, then yeah,

there's a lack of a relationship, but that's different than being like, let's just cut them off and disappear. The boundary is, hey, we're willing to have a relationship if you guys are willing to have conversations instead of yelling, if you're willing to talk instead of, you know, being accusatory. If, you know, I'm not going to respond to these essentially temper tantrums, but I still love you. And it still breaks my heart that, you know, there's conflict. That's not being fake. Yeah.

It just feels like every time we do try to like, for example, so we were supposed to go, the sisters and I were supposed to go to a concert. For example, so we were supposed to go, the sisters and I were supposed to go to a concert. It was like a girl thing. And the oldest sister invites her boyfriend, which was kind of weird. We didn't know why. I asked the younger sister about it. I was like, did you hear she invited her boyfriend? And the younger sister was like, yeah, like, I don't know why she did that.

Like, it was supposed to be a girl's thing. It's kind of just like harshing the vibe. And so we were talking about it like that's kind of weird the younger sister goes and tells the older sister that i said like that i was making it be like i'm uncomfortable and i don't want to go anymore because she invited her boyfriend yeah but you have to learn who you're dealing with yeah right when you told me this story and i don't know anything about them i could have known they wouldn't have handled that well. I could have assumed that you would have been blamed for this.

You should expect these people to do these things, you know? And so you just keep your mouth shut. It's none really of your business. Who cares if she brought her boyfriend? You're just there to try to have some kind of relationship with these people because they are related to your partner and we all know that like you wouldn't you wouldn't be friends with these people if you weren't dating their brother or their son yeah you know so you don't be catty and don't start drama and don't have side conversations and have no opinion everything

you say around them is about diffusing conflict. If one of her sisters is saying in that scenario, oh my God, it's like, where's she with her boyfriend? You just be like, hey, listen, I'm just happy I'm here. Okay, yeah. That's what I'm learning. I don't know. Their relationship with us doesn't mean

as much as our relationship with them means to us. Okay, yeah. And that's fine. But that's not the same as cutting them off. Yeah. Maybe cutting them off was a little extreme, but I just meant like, I don't know where to go at this point. You set some pretty rigid boundaries with yourself and you talk with your boyfriend about the type of relationship that you two think is the healthiest to have with them? And how do you maintain some kind of a relationship with his family while making sure that you guys stay out of the drama as much as possible and not put either of yourselves in situations where you could be arrested or you can be blamed and scapegoated for the drama, but you have to make

sure that you don't give into the drama Because these are obviously reactive people who are good at instigating and good at getting a reaction out of him. And matching their energy isn't being authentic. You know? Right. Yeah. And that's the problem. I'm so emotional. You're not the fixer, though.

It's not your job to fix their family. You're not going to be their savior. And you're basically called up with this, like, well, I can't fix them. So I should cut them out. It's just like,

or you could just focus on your relationship with your boyfriend and this relation you want to be in. And again, have some tough conversations with him about like, listen, like your family is a lot. And obviously we both love them, but like,

they've crazed a lot of conflict in both of our lives so like we might not be able to have the relationship we want to have with them right now but it is important to have some relationship with them and so for the sake of peace you're not going to change them you're not going to fix them you're not going to enlighten them yeah and that's my problem i think that's what i want like i want to be like this person that i can't be for them like i just want it all to be good, you know, and have that like family. I imagine in my brain thinking about when I want to have kids and get married, but we're not going to be that. And I need to just like, let it go. Yeah. And maybe over time they evolve and learn when you're not, you know,

but when you're just not giving them anything to go with, you guys give them a lot to like criticize. Yeah. Like I'm giving them too much. Yeah. give them a lot to like criticize. Yeah. Like I'm giving them too much. Yeah. And so stop giving mom money. And if mom wants to react a certain way and say hurtful things and shame him, like that's her call. But you know, he can set a boundary being like, listen, I want to start a family. I have a family to provide for. Like mom needs to work. If you guys want to give her mom money, that's fine. You can say what you want or whatever. Again, I love you. Lead with love. You know, hey, I love you. Lead with love. Hey, I love you. I want to have a relationship with you, but these are my rules. And they can decide whether they

want to respect those rules or not. But if they don't want to respect their rules, then you have the right to distance yourself. But you don't have the right to cut them off unless you really feel unsafe. But it does sound to me after talking to you that you're doing things that are making the problem worse and you're not diffusing drama and you're giving in and you're being, you know, like, and he's being reactive too. And he's trying, he's matching their energy. And if I were you, I think there's a middle ground. Yeah. I mean, the past few weeks, I've just not gone over there at all. Like he he goes over there whatever he needs to do over there what does he need to do over there they like to message him when they need things and why does he listen yeah i don't know i don't know i feel like we feel some type of guilt

because they don't have anybody else like they really have no friends or other family so once like drama's diffused we're like oh we feel so bad for them but then it starts and then we're like why do we keep like playing this game okay well you guys just have to decide what you're comfortable with and what you're not comfortable with and it sounds like there's a lot of decisions you can make in between cutting them off completely maybe it comes to that but like right now there's things that you could do or stop doing to remove yourself from the drama and see how they respond there's a lot of things i need to let go of like the miscarriage thing like i feel like i'm

still holding on to that it was like two years ago and i'm still holding on to it and i'm gonna have to let it go if we're gonna move on yeah and you know you have every right to be upset about that and and you it's okay if you want to distance yourself from time to time or get some space. Again, this is just about you and your partner coming together and defining some rigid boundaries with his family and then going from there. And hold yourselves accountable. I knew you were going to say this. Hold yourself accountable to make sure that you're not making a bad situation worse. Yeah.

Yeah. Okay. You're right. I just, I don't know. I just always want there to be peace and like us to get along but it's just like it's not the family i chose i guess yeah you just you you you need to be on the same page with your boyfriend and it doesn't even sound like you're totally on the same page and you guys have to come up with like what is he what is he doing you know and eventually

just like i care less i could care less like we have your family and i'm like well he could that's not true he's still he's he's still going over there. He's still responding. He does care and he should care. It's his family. You know, you don't have to pretend to care, but there's a, again, there's a middle ground, you know, and he can still love them and they can be upset with them all they wants, you know, especially if he's just going to say, Hey, I'm, I'm no longer going to do this or that. And you know, he's allowed gonna say hey i'm i'm no longer gonna do this or that and you know he's allowed to change a behavior that he thinks is is not healthy for himself and they are allowed to get mad at him for it and they'll they'll throw their temper tantrum but you know now it's just a

bunch of people being reactive and making threats and then not following through with those threats and fighting fire with fire yeah Yeah. So right now, cause to me, you saying, well, should I cut them off? Is you guys admitting that you're incapable of setting and enforcing boundaries.

So you're just going to cut them off. It's just that they, when they, when the mom isn't getting what she wants or there's certain boundaries, it's like, Oh, you guys don't come over here. You guys don't make the effort.

She told us that we should be going over there three times a week. She can say whatever she wants, but don't come over here you guys don't make the effort she told us that we should be going over there three times a week she can say whatever she wants but don't yeah it doesn't require you to like argue with her or fight with her about it or make it a big deal you can just simply say yeah sorry i can't do that and you can let her be mad i don't want anyone to be mad at me because like i don't ever go out with like the intention of someone being mad at me and i'm really bad at like having serious conversations because i cry all the time like i like i just hate any type of confrontation like i'm very sensitive in that way and like i just want us to get along like i wish that like they knew that was just my intention like i just want us to get along i want you guys to be like how my family is with him well don't say that i'm not gonna say i like

i relate to that so much i like i cry when people yell at me i cry when i have like i was gonna conflict no like i'm i will cry like i i'd be crying and like i i think it's like yeah some people just happen to be born being able to like have conversations without crying. But it's like, I wasn't born that way. You weren't born that way. Doesn't mean we can't become that way. And the only way to like get better at it is to do it and to be bad at it and still keep doing it and like get a little bit better at it every time. And I have a slightly different perspective on this because for a really long time, I thought like cutting people off from family was like never, never, never, ever an option. And then I made a friend who is currently like her and her husband are not in contact with either

of their families. And it's for various reasons, like for her side of the family, it's because her sister, it's like kind of shockingly similar where like my friend lost a pregnancy and it was like devastating. Her sister got pregnant, got blackout drunk when she was five weeks pregnant. And my friend was like, that is unacceptable behavior to me. Like you cannot like that person cannot be in my life with her husband's side of the family. Things got violent and like it was unacceptable and they could not be in each other's lives. And so for I think it wasn't until that that I really thought it was even on they could not be in each other's lives. And so for I think it wasn't until that that I really thought it was even on the table to cut people off. But I think

like thinking about what your like non-negotiables are, you know, when you think about kind of those boundaries and like having those like no matter what we walk away and like having that be a conversation you have with your boyfriend and like that way you don't feel powerless and you know that like there it's not like you're just going to take no matter what they throw at you, like there is an endpoint. And I think knowing that there are certain things that are unacceptable will make it easier to navigate the things that are like really difficult, but not that like non negotiable walkaway point. Yeah. And I think that's the hard thing too, is there's so many opinions that like get in my head. Like my mom, she's very non-negotiable. She is non-negotiable. She was like, no, this family put you guys in

danger when you got arrested. My boyfriend is very Hispanic. Like you can tell. And my mom didn't like that because of how dangerous it is with police and Hispanic people. And my mom didn't like that they put us in that position. Um, like, cause it was really scary. And she's like, that's her non-negotiable. And so there's so many different opinions and I'm just like, I don't know where I'm staying. Cause I'm so easily swayed with emotions. Like every decision you and your partner make has to be, is this going to create more drama or is this going to avoid drama? Stop driving their car, stop using their stuff, stop being dependent on them, stop giving them money, stop putting your nose in where it doesn't

belong when it like has to do with like why she brought her boyfriend along, you know, like do that stuff first and then set some rigid boundaries and go from there, you know, and just make sure that you and your boyfriend are on the same page. And be connected. Be a team. And do this together. And figure out ways to have them in your life. Something is better than nothing when it comes to family. And as long as that something is peace.

Yeah, I agree. I wish I could give you a hug. It's a really difficult situation. Yeah, it sucks. I'm not going to cry. But like I always want to cry. But yeah, I did. I just feel like I expect so much like family wise because I have a great family and it's just not fair, you know?

Yeah. But then maybe it's even a greater reminder of just like how grateful you and your boyfriend can be for your side too. It is because my boyfriend doesn't live with them anymore. He doesn't pay them money. He doesn't pay them money. He doesn't drive their cars. This was in the beginning of our relationship. He actually lives with my uncle now. And my family's really taking care of him.

And I just, I don't know. We have birthday parties. We have baby showers. We have all these things. And we're Hispanic, so family's really important. We have the in-laws over, and we mesh. But they can't do that. And it's just hurtful.

Yeah. But just do what you can to help the situation and don't make a bad situation worse. And time can heal things, but lead by example with how you want the relationship to be. And don't give them ammunition. Being happier is better than being right. Great. Sorry for crying. than being right. Great. Sorry for crying. Don't apologize.

Yeah. Okay. Well, thanks for the advice. I knew you were going to say this. That's why I felt like I needed to call. Cause I'm like, I feel like when you give advice to people,

it's like advice that I would see myself giving to people, but I don't do it for myself. Yeah. That's pretty kind. I'm very just like, well, it's cause you're invested. You're,

you know, you're emotionally compromised. All right. All right. All right. Well, good luck. Take care. We definitely want to follow up.

You know, what, you know, what have you been working on? Like, you know, like a month, I want to know like what you've implemented or what changes is how, what conversations have you and your boyfriend had about like, you know, making sure that you guys, every time you interact with his family, how do you like try to make a peaceful situation again, just it's not about being right. It's not about being a fixer. It's just like having them in your life on some level, because like you said, family is important to you. So just do whatever you can to make them happy without, you know, giving away money or, you know, compromising on your boundaries, but you don't have to lecture them or... I do not be so prideful. Yeah. You don't need to be right and you don't need to fix them.

Yeah. Okay. That's my problem. I don't need to fix them. I'm going to just write that down. I'm sticking it out somewhere. I don't need to fix anyone, just myself. All right. Okay. Thank you guys. All right. Good luck. Thanks for listening. Don't forget to send in those questions at asknickatthevilefiles.com. Okay. Thank you guys. All right. Good luck. Thanks for listening. Don't forget to send in those questions at asknickatthevowfiles.com. Bye.