The Viall Files - E644 Reality Recap with Rachel Recchia - Tino Franco, Love is Blind, BIP, and Taylor’s Touchdown

Episode Date: September 26, 2023

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Reality Recap Edition! At the top of the episode, we are joined by our Pop Culture Correspondent Natalie Joy to discuss Love is Blind Season 5 Episodes 1-4. Then, we are joined by Rachel Recchia to talk about her journey from The Bachelor to The Bachelorette to Bachelor in Paradise. What has she learned from the experience, and where is she now? We talk about Tino breaking his Bachelorette silence, and if she agrees with his retelling of events.  “Tino, why are you giving advice?”  Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes. Join us for our new LIVE show on Thursdays at 9PM ET/6PM PT on Amp, available in the Apple app store. Android User? Listen here: https://www.onamp.com/   To Order Nick’s Book Go To: http://www.viallfiles.com  If you would like to get some texting advice on Office Hours send an email to [e-mail] with “Texting Office Hours” in the subject line! To advertise on the show, contact [e-mail] or visit https://www.advertisecast.com/TheViallFiles  THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Nutrafol - Take the first step to visibly thicker, healthier hair. For a limited time, Nutrafol is offering our listeners ten dollars off your first month’s subscription and free shipping when you go to https://www.Nutrafol.com and enter the promo code THEVIALLFILES. Quince - Check out all the styles at Quince today. Go to https://www.Quince.com/viall for free shipping and 365-day returns on your order.  Vessi Footwear - Go to https://www.vessi.com/VIALL and get shoes for your best fall yet. Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @nnataliejjoy @pilot.rachel @alison.vandam @liffordthebigreddog @dereklanerussell @genevievegoodman   

what's going on everybody welcome back to another new and explosive episode of the vile files reality recap edition. We have a full and bursting household with us. Our pop culture correspondent and the love of my life and fiance,

baby mama, the one and the only. Keep going. Natalie Joy is with us. Amanda is back in studio. We got Genevieve. Allie is here. She's not on a mic.

She's taking diligent notes. Allie's keeping this, honestly, this whole boat afloat. Derek is here. It's a full household mic. She's taking diligent notes. Allie's keeping this, honestly, this whole boat afloat. Derek is here. It's a full household. We have Rachel Recchia with us. We're really excited to have Rachel. It took a lot. It took a lot to get her.

We are excited for you to hear our conversation with Rachel. She forgave Nick for everything Nick said about her. For everything I said. Yeah, Recchia and conciliation. Okay. Almost there. for everything I said yeah, recia and conciliation almost there quite the confrontation between us but we work through it also, there's so much to talk about this episode, Taylor Swift

she's maybe got a new boyfriend, we don't know, we'll get into that but before we get into all of that, we got Love is Blind it's back, it's better than ever before, really enjoying this season see is it season five yeah season five dynamite i've been glued to this screen i've i've been really into it it's really compelling it is really it actually is a really good season absolutely and

i think there's so much to like hop into because there are so many conversations where it's like even though there's all the ways that like this environment heightens situations it also really relates to those kinds of relationship conversations that exist beyond that it goes without saying uche alia lydia gonna be a huge component so much so we start with them do we i don't know i have thought so much about that dynamic it it's it's made me think about life in what way in so many ways okay i don't his brain does not sleep it doesn't he lies awake at night it never shuts up well you know what it made me think about it's this is something i often think about it but it reinforced the thinking about it i don't know if that made sense i think think a lot about this constantly. And I've thought a lot about this more in adult life, the balance between the practice of running your life through the lens of what other people think of me as none of my business versus that balance, that tightrope walk of recognizing that if we want people to hang out with us, if we want people to like us, if we want people to hang out with us,

if we want people to like us, if we want people to invite us to things, we have to work on our shortcomings. And if you want to keep it real, that's great. And I like to lean more on the keeping it real type of persona than, you know, worrying about people pleasing.

But nevertheless, if you want to be talked about always positively, if you always want to be invited, if you want people to want your presence, then you don't get to just say, I'm just keeping it 100 all the time and I don't want to be judged or you can't judge me and things like that. And that balance between those two kind of ideologies, honestly, is, I think, one of the major keys to life. And striking that balance, I think, is critically important. And we live in a society where when we do something, where we mess up and we want some grace, we like to say things like, no one can judge me, you know. and we want some grace, we like to say things like, no one can judge me. But when other people mess up, we use all these buzzwords to narcissist and name call them to turn them into something that we don't even know if they are, but we love to throw those names out there. And watching the Lydia-Uche-Aleah dynamic really made me think about that because you got Lydia all day long being like, I just want someone to accept me. I'm a, yeah, if you're a big personality, amazing. But like, again, if you want to keep it real all the time, you just might rub some people say throughout life, especially in adulthood, that everyone is supposed to accept you and love you for who you are.

You just might not be everyone's type. You know, also like Nick made a really good point when we were watching it. We were obviously having a discussion about it. And he was like, you know, I have had to change things about myself because I realized that not everyone likes it. My partner doesn't, you know, like, and I had to self-reflect and like, so not everyone is just going to like, love you for who you are and not have any questions, anything to say. And I think that's kind of what Lydia is expecting. And I think you, you're really valid in that point of being like,

no, like there, you have to look in the mirror and say, okay, I need to change some things about myself. Yeah. If you rub people the wrong way, or you've like, let's say you realize that like, no, like there, you have to look in the mirror and say, okay, I need to change some things about myself. Yeah. If you rub people the wrong way, or you've like, let's say you realize that like, I don't know if I got invited to that thing or something or whatever it is. Like you can a not give a shit. You can be like, Hey, listen, that's fine. I'm not everyone's cup of tea. I am who I am. Or if you want to be, if you want to be included more, if you have a habit of, let's say walking into the room and is taking all the oxygen out of it. You know, if you want to be included more, if you have a habit of, let's say, walking into the room and just taking all the oxygen out of it, you know, if you have a habit of making every situation about you, you know, and projecting other people's problems and like making it about you, you might run some people the wrong way. And if that bothers you, then you might have to reflect and you might

have to work on it. That's something we all literally have to do. And again, striking that balance between being your truest self and not worrying about making every situation about people pleasing versus recognizing that we have some character flaws. We might make some low character choices in our life and we have to hold ourselves accountable, otherwise be judged for it. Totally. And especially the things that might rub people the wrong way in a more meaningful, significant way, as opposed to to someone who is just you're never going to get along with your different people. The things that really impact someone you do have a chance of connecting with are oftentimes things where it's you probably want to do some more healing. You know, they're usually indicative of things that you've experienced that you haven't fully like process made peace with, where it's so much better to look at it with a growth mindset of instead of limiting yourself to who you are now, viewing yourself as someone who is capable of evolving

and growing based off of feedback and being discerning about what feedback you take into account. But it's a much more kind of like beautiful and optimistic way to look at life in your own capacity to view yourself as someone with potential to change. Yeah, totally. Because whether we like or not, we all judge. Whether we say it out loud or say it in our own voices, we all are judging ourselves, other people. No one watches reality TV and then listens to the podcast recapping it when they don't judge. I judge football. I love sports. I love pop culture. All I'm doing is judging. But that's all we do. And so you can say, well, no one has the right to judge me. It's just like that, but that's what everyone does. And you might not like it, but you might have to like work on it. And

especially when it comes to relationships and friendships, we are not entitled for everyone to accept us just as who we are. That's where like recognizing that we're not going to be people pleasers. We can't be friends with everyone. And it's okay to have someone not accept you for who you are. And that's fine. But we don't get the demand from them that they like us or accept us and not judge us. Sometimes we fuck up. Sometimes we make mistakes and we have hurt people. And sometimes we might get judged for it. And in those moments, it's up to us to try to make those people feel safe and let them know what work we have or haven't done so that despite our mistakes in the past, that it might be safe for us to still,

safe for them to still interact with us. I feel like that's a perfect segue to, obviously, so much to get into with that triad. But with Uche and Aaliyah, the conversation about cheating in the past and the way that was handled. What was your take on that kind of initial response? What did you think? Obviously, he asked the question, right? He asked the question of, have you ever lied in a relationship? And she was like, yeah, I'm human. Like, I have lied in a relationship before.

And he was like, OK, well, have you ever cheated in a relationship? And coming to find out that the person she cheated on didn't even know that she had cheated. Like he is finding out by watching her on Love is Blind. To me, that was the most outrageous thing she did. Also, I want to point out that when she first admitted that she cheated, his initial response was, OK, tell me about it. He didn't sound judgmental at first. I feel like that's maybe subjective in the sense that and I think he has every right to like I. It's weird because I think so often people will like apply a very perfectionistic lens to how they expect people to behave in this situation. And so like I say this with the knowledge that like Uche was finding out overwhelming, upsetting, discouraging information in the moment. I do think he was being pretty cold and pretty like he like it felt like they were in the interrogation room and there was a single light hanging over her head and he was like circling a little bit with the way he was asking questions it was very

i think at times the tempo felt very harsh even though those questions were all really valid and again he shouldn't be held to a standard of perfection with that like i'm sure i would also be pretty upset if someone i thought i might marry revealed that they cheated. Like, that would be overwhelming information. You know, yeah, certainly subjective. I took it as at first he was like, OK, tell me about it. All right. Let's. Yeah. You know, did you. Is this a high school? Was this 10 years ago? Was it a make out? Was it oral sex? Was it intercourse? Who knows? Was it emotional cheating? You know, he didn't know. She was so reluctant to just give the truth. Like, I thought she could say, yeah, some version of, yeah, like, I knew this disappointed this happened, why sitting here now, as hard as it is to admit this, it was a defining moment of my life in a positive way because I

think I've really made some real impactful changes. She didn't come anything close to that. She dripped this information out begrudgingly as he asked for it. To Natalie's point, it was like, begrudgingly as he asked for it. To Natalie's point, it was like, did you tell him? She didn't want to tell the story. And the story we heard essentially was three months prior to the relationship ended, she had intercourse with someone else, didn't tell her partner at the time, maybe told a friend, who knows, and then eventually had the guts to break up with him and then decided to just pretend it didn't happen. She initially cheated because she wasn't pleased sexually in their relationship, which I do feel like is really important context of like,

there's just so much shame surrounding like women's sex drive. Like it, like being at least in my experience. And I feel like I have come from an extremely like quote unquote progressive environment that where there has been like you know a lot of emphasis on like women having the full range of emotions and experiences men including like pleasure and sex but there is still so much stigma surrounding like a women's sex drive like it is embarrassing sometimes like I feel like I would never proudly describe myself as horny. And that is like something that I maybe should work on.

You should. But I think there is so much of a like, you know, we can talk about these things in statistics, be like, yeah, there's a huge like orgasm gap. But like understanding the way that actually happens transpires in a relationship and how hard it is to work up the courage to even say I deserve to like find sexual satisfaction or pleasure. Like, can you please pay attention? Can you please care about that is a really difficult thing to do i'm not defending her choices about

it at all but when we're talking about her being kind of like as you were saying kg also she didn't tell this man so i'm sure there's a part of her that's like well i want to be honest but also i'm about to put my ex on blast on national tv and then additionally it's a subject where there is so much like shame surrounding it. That's all I want to say. And I agree with everything you said in terms of the awareness aspect. But like, I'm sorry.

No, that wasn't the time. And she doesn't get any brownie points, at least from me. She could have talked about that without mentioning any one specific partner. She could have separated those conversations.

She could be like, also something I want to talk about in past relationships. I've struggled with having my sexual needs met and it's been hard to communicate and i feel like it's you know i've gotten judgment for it yada yada yada no to nally's point she put this guy on fucking blast not to mention oh by the way i'll just so you know i cheated on you and you suck at sex. Her delivery was incredibly selfish in how she said it with no real thought to how this might affect him. When Uche really kind of started, you know, and to your point, interrogating her, it triggered her. And that's when she kind of

lashed out and when she's like, well, what about my needs? Very Tom Sandoval-esque in terms of making her choices for not ending the relationship prior to getting her needs met and justifying the cheating, which again, maybe Aaliyah will never cheat again. I don't know. Maybe she learned her lesson. Maybe the shame that she felt and the shame she put on herself will be enough. I'm just saying in an environment where these two people barely know each other, I thought it was really fascinating to have Uche, despite

maybe he could have been softer, he asked some good questions. Sure, I totally agree. And I felt like she did not answer the questions to the point where it would give Uche the green light to move forward, in a sense. There was no delivery in what she said that told Uche the green light to move forward, in a sense. There was no delivery in what she said that told Uche, this is someone who's done the work and understands why she made that low character choice in the moment, and that she's no longer, who knows, you can't predict the future. But again, the story she told was she just basically tried to pretend it didn't happen, and she wanted brownie points for being honest with him about it i mean she yeah she gets some points for it i do think it was really important context though like because you know the central thing of like

cheating like why did this happen like what was the context for that i do think it was really relevant to say i felt abandoned it's not just being like me at a tiny dick it's saying like my sexual needs with the one person who like that's not why you cheated we spent six we spent six months criticizing tom sandoval for having a seven month long affair that the timeline is not important what is important is saying you don't get to blame ariana like no one accused ariana for being perfect in her relationship and no one said that their relationship was perfect and that ari maybe as far as relationship goes, didn't have some things. That's not why you cheat. That's not why when I was literally sitting in a Jeep with Tom Sandoval

and I was like, hey, special forces being like, why'd you do it? And don't tell me it was because of this, this and this in the relationship. And if you're going to criticize Tom Sandoval for how he handled those, like his language and how he talked about why he did it. That's not why she cheated. She cheated because she decided not to deal with the situation before she decided to meet her needs. She had, you know what I'm saying? She did say to Uche, what was I supposed to do?

Like stay with someone who like wasn't pleasing me? And he was like, no, you break up with them yeah which and again i am in no way defending her choice to cheat like that sucks the high character thing would have been to break up with his partner i just think it's the context in especially in being like why was i in a place to make such a low character choice if i'm going to say this was outside my character that this is not the person who I am. I have evolved. I think it is important to say, like, what was the context that surrounded that horrible decision and the context of I tried so many times to initiate conversations, to work on this with a partner. And it's clear she felt stonewalled and abandoned in the relationship. And with monogamy, it's like

you are each other's one and only lifeline for sexuality. Sure, you can have a relationship with yourself, but like, you know, you are really counting on this person and to feel like he doesn't care and to also be fighting this internalized shame of like, but am I even entitled to feel this way? And, you know, on a conscious level, you're yes, but on a conditioned level, no. I just don't think there's an excuse for infidelity. And I just I'm just saying, saying, she has every right to feel. Everything you talked about, I think, is valid and important.

But when it comes to justifying cheating, no, I'm sorry. You don't get to say that. That might be why she felt the way she did. And she can articulate that. But that has nothing to do with why she chose to handle that situation. And if we're going to give anyone a pass to use that as a reason, then we're saying that there is a justification for cheating. Then you're saying cheating's wrong, but. Cheating's wrong, except. Cheating is wrong, full stop. It is so wrong that it is essential

it never happens again. So let's look at why it would have happened in the first time. See if there are ways. I think in describing what went wrong, that's like a way of indicating whether or not someone has grown. I think it's fair to say that, like, you know, she was clearly coming into that conversation. I think she was nervous. I think she was uncomfortable. And I don't think she was speaking to. I totally hear where you're coming from of like with Uche.

He was clearly looking for reassurance. Like, how am I going to trust you knowing that this has happened? And like now the burden of proof is on you to prove that you are trustworthy. And she was clearly having, you know, really uncomfortable and having a hard time speaking to that. So because if you're him, how is he supposed to have the confidence that going forward, let's say life happens, they're in a relationship, they're married, they have kids, and he is stressed out at work. He's in his early 40s, his sex drive has gone down, he's hyper-stressed, he's not feeling it, they're disconnected, and they're having less sex. And despite her best efforts, he just can't find the libido to please his partner for a period of time.

And let's say that happens for six, eight, 12 months. What confidence does he has that she won't step out again? I literally like I was literally talking to Sam Sandoval in Special Forces and trying to explain to him he was essentially making the same argument. I'm like, you say you understand cheating is wrong, but you keep subtly suggesting that, you know, you had no other choice. And I'm saying what future partner has the confidence that when life happens, not when you're in the honeymoon phase and you're like, I'll never hurt you.

But like five years later, when you're just like in a relationship and, you know, feeling connected in itself is a struggle. And then you meet someone who validates you, who gives you know, feeling connected in itself is a struggle. And then you meet someone who validates you, who gives you attention, who makes you feel ways that your partner hasn't made you feel in six or seven months. Like what confidence does your partner have that you're not going to do the same thing? And I'm just saying, like, all I'm saying is that Aaliyah, I don't know whether she's going to do it again, but what she said wouldn't give me the confidence that she has done the work. And if I think if you're Uchi, you have the right to like be hyper disappointed.

He wanted, I mean, shit, the next time they met, he was apologizing to her and kind of washed off, washed over all his concerns. I thought that was a defining moment. Let's say we fast forward two years, right? Uchi calls in and let's say it wasn't in love is blind. Him and Aaliyah, not in love is blind, got in a relationship, right? And let's say they dated and she cheated on him, right?

And he called in and he's like, so I was in this relationship. Here's how he would tell the story. He's like, yeah, like, I mean, she told me she cheated in the past, but she was so transparent. She just, I asked her if she ever cheated and she told me all about it. That would be the version I hear. And when we have Ask Nick,

we have people call in, and they tell their version of the story that kind of lets them off the hook. And then we'll ask more questions, and we'll peel back layers, and we realize maybe there's a little bit more of the truth. And I'm just saying, when we are in relationships, and things don't work out the way we want and we reflect back, these are the moments, right? Where we kind of recreate those stories in our head to something that's a little bit more like lets us off the hook. And I'm just saying, if you're Uche in this situation, he would need to go back and remember that time where he asked these very pointed questions and his body, his gut told him,

she's not giving me the clarity I want and I need because I really want to be with her. Instead, he just chose to ignore it because he was feeling all these intense feelings. He wanted to be with her. He wanted to give her the benefit of the doubt and she didn't and he just chose to ignore it. And then a year later, if let's say in this hypothetical world, she wouldn't cheat on him, He would act like shocked and like, how could you? She was so transparent. She was so honest. And if there was a fly on the wall and you replay the tape, you would be like, well, no, actually, she kind of told you through her words that she didn't do the work, that she was kind of justifying her actions.

that she was kind of justifying her actions. I took his apology as a sign that he holds himself to an incredibly high standard of saying, even in these conversations where I have every right as a potential partner, as a potential husband to you to understand this and have information about it. I was not coming at it with a tone of curiosity. I was coming at it with the tone of like, you know, I was judging you in the moment and I was not being ultra kind. And so to me, I interpreted the apology as like, wow, he holds himself to such a high standard of like, I want to be able to have these conversations with my partner and do my very best to not instill like more judgment and shame on a situation they already

like clearly feel that way. I know, but we do that sometimes too. Like he was probably patting himself on the back for being super understanding. If you wrote down the transcript, like, so, like, no notes for Uche. No notes. I think it was just, like, kind of in the delivery where we get into the murky water. Then, you know, so much of what we saw

in the later episodes of this chunk was about the reveal of Uche and Lydia. And it seems like, especially for Aaliyah, I'm sure there was a connection to her about, you know, disclosure, honesty, judgment for where that has and hasn't happened. Like, I'm sure in her brain, when she found out about Lydia,

there was a part of her like, you were so fucking hard on me. You know, even though they're different things, how do you feel like this context fuels that situation? almost similar in the sense where that was alia not trusting her gut it was like you're not even gonna talk to her and like before you let her off the hook the whole situation was handled like so bizarrely i think by everyone i feel obviously her and Lydia have a very, very strong friendship. They obviously have a ton of love for each other. And you would think that that would be something that as a friend, you would want to disclose.

And instead, when the whole cheating and Aaliyah came back and she was sobbing, crying and Lydia Lydia's comforting her. And she's like, well, that's his own trauma. And you look back at that and you listen to it and you're like, she has ulterior motives because she knows him from before. So you just listen to these conversations and it just feels really icky. And then to have Aaliyah confront her and to hear like, they fucked three months ago and like, oh, his house is three stories and he has a blue Tesla and he does like her just giving all of this information that obviously Aaliyah was uncomfortable. She didn't want to know any.

She literally didn't ask for. Literally said, I don't want to. His dog loves me. He loves wild turkey. And again, I'm sure she was uncomfortable and word vomiting, but it was some bad word vomit.

What she was saying. Well, because at first, before we knew about the relationship, I just thought it was Lydia just making a situation not about her, about her and her projecting her own insecurities. And it just reminded me of the times that like, listen, our friends often are the worst people we should go to relationship advice for. Right. And I thought this was a perfect example of that, where Lydia has her own struggles in relationships and her, her own insecurities. And, you know, she wanted to be a good friend to her friend, but she wasn't in that room. And she was feeding her with all this, what I thought to be delusion. You know, your friends feed you delusion because it makes them feel better about their own choices, right? And yes, we don't like to be judged. I hear you. You can't say no one has the right to judge me and then go to your Facebook or Instagram and read your comments. You're literally looking

for judgment. And just because it's a heart eyes emoji, that's judgment. You don't get to cherry pick the judgment people give you. You don't get to want the compliments and like reject the criticisms. Like we all judge. It's just a part of life. Oh, and then when she when she tells Milton, oh, it would have ruined the whole experiment. How? Explain that to me. But that to me felt like a producer plant in her mind.

You can't tell anyone until we tell you it's OK, because we have to let the experiment run through. I hear you. That's what I thought. It might be true. But these are adults and I'm sorry. I know what it's like to be produced. I know what it's like to be given suggestions and I've agreed with some of those. I've taken the bait sometimes regretfully and I've rejected them at times. But at the end of the day, they're my choices and I have to be held accountable for my choices. That's a personal choice. That's how I see the

situation as someone who's been in those environments. And I personally just don't let people off the hook. I feel like it only would have ruined the experiment if they decided to pursue each other. I agree. But her telling Aaliyah and Uche telling Milton or whatever, that doesn't ruin the experiment at all. No, at all. Unless you're describing him physically. Right, right. Unless you're giving all that information about his house and his car and his dog

and all the things he likes and doesn't like, then it ruins it. And I think maybe Lydia couldn't control herself and maybe that's why she just didn't trust herself. But then Milton told Lydia, if you told me this day one or two, like I probably wouldn't have pursued you. So I'm sure in her mind, she's like, thank God I waited until we had this connection.

That doesn't make sense to me from Milton. I was like, why? I mean, what do you mean why? Like, why would you not pursue her just because by random act or by brilliant production act, someone who she happened to have dated in the past was also there? Well, part of it is he's answering a question with hindsight. So he has no idea how he would have handled that situation, right?

He has more information than he otherwise would. But two, a lot of us, us you know don't want to like fuck our friends exes these people are making fast friends they're they're living in this pod there's these they're spending all this time of the guy the men are spending time with the men the women spend time they're bonding incredibly fast so if you would have found out on day three that's three intense days with uche making a friendship and then finding out he had slept with someone else you know three months earlier yeah but if she told him day one then he could have like I feel like a lot of these people that we don't even see obviously Johnny and Stacey

aren't the best of friends and they just like don't yeah I don't kind of avoid each other so if she told Milton day one he would have been been like, OK, interesting. Good to know. I'm not going to like become besties with Uche. Maybe that's you're absolutely right. Like I said, I don't think Milton really knows because now he's answering the question through the lens of he's really close with Uche. And despite him wanting to give Lydia the best in a doubt, he feels lied to. He feels an omission of the truth is often a lie. Also, Lydia, I feel like was selling Milton like a timeshare presentation. What about the proposal? Like they all, I think the theme of this season is no one wants to leave this show not engaged,

which I get that's like the hope. You go on hoping you, but it's like, like shit, all right, I'm down to my like number four, but like i'll still marry you number four like i love you just as much as i love number one and it's like you just want to be engaged well and honestly that explanation might be better than the alternative which is they're just kind of liars that's like the best choice of the choices of why are they acting this way because yeah it's like maybe they just they want

to see this experiment through i feel like that's the perfect segue to get into the johnny chris izzy situation is he's toxic yeah what is it about him where i'm just like i feel like i feel like shitty to my friend's boy like my friend in a past life. He's been like insecure in his relationships. And now all of a sudden he's in a situation where the one thing in his mind that was like holding him back isn't really a factor. And he has like he literally had three women at one point obsessed with him. And so he's like, oh, oh, this is new. Like and just like it went to his head he's like when we always say like fuck the spark watch out for butterflies i feel like izzy is like the

epitome of someone who's like great first impression seems super charismatic skips the small talk like and seems great at first but ultimately like there's a lot of stuff going on there well kind of like like lydia and izzy i feel like have a lot of similarities where it's just like they're trying to be good friends. But at the end of the day, they're kind of make the situations about themselves. And every situation is a chance to validate themselves. And those little scenes you saw between Izzy and Chris, why are you telling this to Chris? You're telling this to Chris because it makes you feel better about yourself. Totally.

You want Chris to know that you're like you're telling this to chris because it makes you feel better about yourself totally you know you want you want chris to know that you broke up with her it's funny because they were telling the same story just through their own pov johnny was telling chris essentially the truth which was like you know what happened with us we broke up and like ultimately it seemed like i don't know johnny also might have seemed like she was fibbing a little bit but either way izzy wanted chris to know that he had the power in that relationship and unnecessarily so he was pretending to be a friend while trying to just validate himself absolutely and there was a lot of people pretending to be friends they weren't looking for friendship they were looking for partners in crime like lydia isn't looking for friendship she is looking for a partner in crime. She is looking for someone to make the same mistakes that she makes so that she can feel better about her own choices.

Hot take. Izzy kind of reminds me like of a low key bald Shane. I knew you were going to say that. Like his fidgety energy a little bit, you know? know yeah he almost kind of looks like him too with no hair yeah like the teeth there's something about the smile jp and taylor i think are absolutely perfect for each other the sugars the sugars and i think they are going to last forever i hope they're so cute yeah i got nervous when that bit of the teaser where she said you knew what I looked like I didn't know what you didn't know what I looked like

and he says I do now yeah that made me scared not in the sugars I don't know because he looked like he shot out of his ballpark with Taylor

and then she was like I probably like wouldn't have gone for a guy with a gap in his teeth and so it's just like interesting to hear that that was tough to hear my read when they met for the first time is that he was super excited about how attractive she was and she was like i can work with this yeah like she was literally like love is blind i'm proof of that and like seems proud that she like lowered her expectations yeah just like kind of close the johnny thread with chris what it so what did you make of

johnny's decision you know and how at one point she when talking to izzy and when kind of truly shooting her shot in the biggest way and saying like please like let's take this leap together here's how i feel about you speaking about their relationship and also her relationship with chris and then conversely after that didn't work out she shared with chris that through a totally different lens like what did you make of that i just want someone on love is blind in this critical situation to just go in the room kind of to Nally's point and just be transparent and be like, listen, this is a crazy situation. Obviously, you know, I made a connection with so-and-so and to be totally honest, what I was feeling, I was leaning that way. They rejected me,

but I'm here. We had, you know, and I'm just gonna be honest. Like, I just want to be real. Like you weren't my first choice and I don't want to have to say that, but I don't, I don't want to sit there and pretend and try to sell you on something and like oversell our connection because I don't want you to feel like second place. So let's just like, are you willing to give me a chance and let's just see if we can go from here because this is a crazy thing that we're doing and who knows if I got it right or wrong. Like, I just want someone someone to just kind of own that rather than try to dress it up as into something they're not. And I just, again, Johnny also seemed to fib about the story a little bit. Johnny seems like someone who just like, she's a beautiful person. She's

very talented. She's a lawyer. She's a lawyer, yeah. Has a lot of things going for her. But like all of us, she's had some people decide that she's not their type you know has a lot of things going for her but like all of us she's had some people decide that she's not their type but i think every time johnny has been rejected instead of just accepting it and being like yeah i'm not everyone's type you know like whatever i think she kind of lives in this delusion and and she tells a story which is she decided somehow that she rejected them even if she's like yeah they broke me, but I didn't need them anyways or whatever. And listen, if you need to get over someone, it's good to accept that you do deserve better and that they weren't giving you what you need and things like that, but not maybe to

the point where, again, we all need to work on things. We all need to make changes. And if every partner you've ever had complains about the same thing, it might be a you problem. And I'm sorry if you don't want to be judged for it, but that is life. We all have bad habits. We all do things that are annoying and we have to work really hard. And I'm someone who's had to look in the mirror. And if I didn't like certain things or I didn't like how people reacted to certain things, if I wanted to change change i had to make some changes there were other aspects where it's just like well can't win everything can't please everyone and i wish they didn't think this way

about me but eh what are you gonna do babe you gotta tell your uh food joke oh they just of course like love is blind gets you know under fire by previous love is blinders saying they were neglected and not fed and not given water in this season they have a buffet they have food everywhere we feed our guests there's like to-go boxes of like places maybe they went out to eat there's like the crate like every scene has a meal there's vanilla mini oreos alia's eating like that's vanilla oreos that's a specialty project that is that's a request someone asked for those and they were hand delivered for sure i did love uh chris feeling comfortable enough to share with johnny he went through and losing his virginity.

I feel like shedding light that men also go through that. It felt really important. I don't remember how Johnny handled it, but I think she just. I think she did well. I think she did. I think she just said like. Better than Izzy handled her telling him about her ex. Oh yeah.

That was. She was sharing about her past relationship and how they broke up and he was an addict and then she learned that he'd overdosed and that was really difficult for her. She was already married. The only person she ever loved, which was interesting because she was married. She was married. At that point. And he was just kind of like.

Oh yeah. He was acting like a goddamn spirit airlines counter person who when she popped her baggage on the scale he was like that's too heavy too much yeah izzy sounds like he's just you know done a lot of work on himself and maybe that work is just going to the gym a lot i don't know but like but to the point where now he's just kind of self-centered and selfish where it's just like he just wants to talk about all his work. And again, we've all done these things. And that's what I love about Love is Blind. It's just like a microcosm of all these bad choices we've all made in the world. And these all seem like normal people, some of which have made some bad choices, have had some

bad things happen to them, have been selfish, are selfish, not narcissistic or sociopathic, selfish, are selfish, you know, like not narcissistic or sociopathic, just like normal human beings who have, you know, gotten it right, gotten it wrong, still getting it right, still getting it wrong. And we're watching it unfold. And it's been really fascinating to watch. Absolutely. Before we wrap up, can we just talk about Miriam, the most mysterious woman ever to grace the screen? What does she do? I don't understand she doesn't even know her timelines her timelines are uh off yeah i love a good timeline that's not marion talking because she's living in the middle east but has moved back to houston and the most bizarre

part of that was when she said you know he was like oh what do you do in dermatology like do you make your own skincare products and she said it's a very unique composition oh what does that mean you know and then she was like oh no but i already have a place but then like it was just like i'm moving in a few weeks and he was like oh where are you gonna move to and she goes no i'm already there like why don't you know this are you not paying attention i'm not being confusing why are you confused i love like as like a little like kind of puckish like agent of chaos in the dating world to be like tiki you'll never catch me you'll never find out my truth just in general like reality tv i love the like the competition for saddest stories and some of them

land you know because some of them are truly like obviously chris a very vulnerable story he shared and totally enlightening and important to have those conversations and then there's milton who maybe he just maybe it was edited i don't know but his sad story was i was born in hawaii then i got to live in japan and then overnight I became a genius. It was essentially his story. Now, again, I'm paraphrasing a little bit. But he had a hard time in Japan. He had a hard time in Japan, which I get it.

I'm sure it wasn't the most fun. But he's like, yeah. And then I like I didn't feel smart. And then, wham, I was a genius. Like, OK, like, but it's just like everyone has to tell their sad story and like whatever it is they do their best and like again they're just I mean that's like asking Nick to tell a sad story I mean I can come up with something where I felt bull I've been bullied I felt sad but like compared to someone like Chris or someone like Taylor who's like talked

some is very vulnerable about like, the personal struggles they had that they've really had to work hard through, you know? There's some really compelling stories. And then some of them are just like, yeah, you know, you've lived like you lived. Although it was really weighed at a very different point when Milton was saying, I've looked at statistics for people who are my height and have like scoliosis. I think it was. And he was like, I don't have long left. Oh my

God. Haunting. I felt so I was like, oh no, Milton. Why did they leave with that? I was so glad though that he did bring light to the fact that we used to get checked for scoliosis in school. Like did I thought that I have told that to people several times. They're like, wait, really?

You did? We'd have to literally go into a curtained area, pull your shirt up, and some doctor would rub your spine and make sure. Was that normal? Or illegal? Or illegal. You had to bend over, yes.

No, because we were not bending over. We had to wear plaid skirts and like bending over. I don't think we had like a normal doctor. I think it was like a parent. This sounds wrong. It was like a parent in the nurse's office. They'd be like, bend over, sweetie. No, ours was like, it was like a fire drill.

It was like everyone, it's time for scoliosis screening. Like go and head into the auditorium. You like stood in a line all day and finally got your way up there, bent over. And I always wanted to have scoliosis so bad i thought it was so cool i thought it was so cool i always wanted to have a broken arm right i wanted crutches yeah to have people like sign the cast and everything crutches with a broken arm i do and a leg i wanted both i also want to give a shout out to Stacey for the way she comforted Lydia after Lydia sort of talked to Milton about the Uche of it all and the history.

Because Stacey said something that I thought was so profound and brilliant where she was like, your past is a roadmap for how people can love you better. Yeah. Love. Love does. And she was someone who like I got and this is horrible i got v i was judging as we've talked about i was judging her i got vaguely bitchy vibes from her i don't know maybe it was because she has a very strong contour game but it was one of those moments where i was

like i do not know this woman she is so emotionally intelligent and lovely and kind and she's being a really good friend in this moment like and to put a nice bow on it there's there's it's subtle but such a big difference between making a mistake and doing the work so that you can avoid the mistake in the future and making a mistake and just like trying to pretend it didn't happen and saying you were wrong and hoping that you don't do it again in the future and you know as i always say our choices matter. We make choices. It can affect us and other people and it can fuck up our lives.

And the difference between it fucking up our lives and letting it be a launching pad for concrete change is subtle but important. Doing the work is all the difference.

It sure is. Well, so much to talk about. Listen, obviously, we're not getting to every nit and gritty thing. It's already a long episode. So much that we have Rachel, Taylor Swift, and Travis Kelsey. We'll cover a lot more Love is Blind and Pop Extra behind Vile Files Plus this Friday. Be sure to tune in for that. Also, we'll be covering Special Forces aired last night.

It's also on Hulu if you haven't checked it out. Yours truly, Tom Sandoval, Tyler Cameron, and many more people are on it. I hope you're watching it. We'll be talking about it on Thursday's episode of Going Deeper, along with Raven Simone and her wife Miranda are with us. Super excited to talk to Raven from the hit show. That's so Raven. It's the future. I can see.

We'll be talking to them, especially I want to talk to Raven about, you know, she's been very open about her. She's inherited. She manifested perhaps. The medium. Is it medium skills? Anyways, love to talk to her about that. Psychic ability. I'm a bit of a skeptic, but very.

But a curious one. I'm a curious one. We're excited to have them. And for all you people who love your updates, Vile Files Classic. Everyone gets to listen to another update and it's a doozy. And plus, again, reminder, if you love those updates, there's many more streaming behind Vile Files Plus.

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Rachel. Hi, Nick. How's it going? Hi. Welcome. Thank you for having me. We're so glad to have you. Excited to be here. I feel like it's been a long time coming. Who would have thought? Who would have thought? I thought. I believed. I didn't give up hope. I'm like, someday we're going to get Rachel

on this couch. And here we are. Here we are. How do you feel about that? You know, never thought this day would come, but I'm really excited and can't wait to have the long awaited chat. Well, how are you doing? How's your heart? As we often ask on this show. Yeah. You know, just kind of gearing up for paradise and everything that's going to happen, feeling pretty good. But I think those nerves are starting to set in. So this is a good way to kind of kick off the week. Yeah, you're the star of paradise. Do you know that? I don't know if I would say the star.

I'm very excited to be there. You're definitely the biggest name. You're the bachelorette. Yeah, hello. Yeah, it's a big deal. It's a pretty big deal. I'm very excited. You can be humble. This season's going to be good. It's a pretty big deal. Yeah, I guess it's a pretty big deal. I'm very excited. You can be humble. This season's going to be good. It's a pretty big deal. Yeah, I guess it's a pretty big deal. I'm assuming the choice to go back on the show was a difficult one.

What ultimately made you decide or would you be willing to kind of walk through that decision making process? Because regardless of what people might say or think, I'm assuming there was a lot of difficult choices that went into you deciding to go back on. There were a lot of opinions, a lot of people that had conflicting thoughts. It really just started off as a joke, kind of at first between me and Michelle. I mean, Gabby would talk about it like, let's go to the beach. And then, you know, producers would start kind of being like, well, are you interested? Let's kind of start getting this ball rolling. And in my mind,

it was always just like, oh, yeah, like, we'll think about it. And then all of a sudden, it starts coming up on time to make a decision. And I think that's where it started to get a little tough. But I had a lot of advice from it started with Ben Higgins. We had a really long talk and then me and Becca. And that ultimately was the decision that I made. Becca Kufrin? Yeah. Okay. Who was more helpful, Becca or Ben? They were both really encouraging. I think Becca, I know she's done this before. She's the only person who could really understand it. But Ben also did winter games, I guess, right after his season. So everyone was kind of walking me through what it's like to go from, you know, being the lead and doing that to going back into that environment. And everyone had nothing but great things to say about Paradise and there's a lot of success from

it. So I wanted to take a chance. And what were you hoping could happen? Having done Paradise a different order, I could see a lot of reasons why you would want to do it you know that would make sense you know one paradise is fun of all the things that happen in bachelor world like paradise for most people not for everyone is a chance to just like kind of kick back and have a good time and actually enjoy the experience because the bachelorette or the bachelor when you're on the other end, especially like you're on Clayton's season, obviously stressful. Your season, obviously stressful.

And it's like a chance to just like, you know what? I actually want to go on this goddamn show and actually have a good time is like a desire, I think, for people. And I think a valid one. And then there's obviously the, you know, looking for love aspect. Like where like how would you rank, you know, your reasons for going back on? I think this environment, I mean, has been so successful for me. And as much as we want to look back and be like, well, I don't have a ring on my finger right now or maybe I do. Who knows? But like it has been a place where I've been able to find love multiple times and the most successful couples come from the beach and like you said my first time on The Bachelor I was so nervous I was so quiet I really hung in the back on my season I took it really really seriously and I think this

was my one chance to go and have fun and be in that environment again but also I'm loving that environment and so yeah I think out of all three they're very different but paradise might be my favorite i think that was my favorite experience oh that's a good sign yeah yeah a little tease without giving too much away did you feel like kind of amongst peers because like so much of the show is like not just the romantic connections you form but the friendships and knowing that like everyone is all mixed together did you feel like there was at all either like preconceived notions people had or just like a slight kind of tinge of a power dynamic, just knowing that like you were the bachelorette and the lead and everything?

I was nervous just because there were going to be a lot of girls from Zach's season. And I knew going in already, I mean, Zach didn't really speak about me the best. So I was like, OK, these girls are going to come down. They're already friends. He already kind of didn't talk well about me. I'm going to have to like overcompensate but I came down and I mean really everyone was so welcoming I fit in right away and I was able to just be there with a bunch of people who have done this before and it really didn't feel like oh I was the lead and things like that I got to kind of just fit in with everyone and have a great time I totally get your reservations obviously you're worried about if there was conversations, but you all had something because Zach broke up with all of them.

They probably and me. So there you go. You guys were you were just among friends. Exactly. Yes. I know you can't tease much about Paradise, but now that you've done it, are you glad that you did? I am so glad I did it. And I'm really excited for people to see this

side of me. Like I was saying before, I really feel like they've seen this like super serious Rachel, like I'm getting the ring, I'm going in and I'm finding this person. And I was really able to, I guess, go at it in a different direction with a lot of experience and a lot of time to reflect how I've seen myself before. And I mean, you know, I've seen myself, the ugliest parts, I mean, the parts I don't like. And, you know, I was able to go back and really reflect on that before I went to the beach. And I think that really helped me. What were some of those parts that you didn't like seeing or you didn't like that you saw? Or were put on blast on reality TV?

Yeah, absolutely. I think looking back at myself, I guess mostly on The Bachelorette, I think I had so much work to do on myself before I was able to be put in that role. And of course, at the time, you're like, oh, I'm 100% ready. Like I can do this. But you really, I guess, don't know how secure you need to feel in yourself to be in that role. And I think on my time as The Bachelorette, I wasn't as secure as I could have been. And it really affected my time. And I think going on the beach, I feel a lot better in myself.

I don't know if you've talked about this before, but I'm assuming just being one of two Bachelorettes was an extremely difficult challenge. I mean, I couldn't imagine having been The Bachelor with Ben Higgins. Yeah. Constantly being compared, you know, and I'm sure people, you know, everyone loves Ben. And whether you have your own fans, it's just an extra opportunity for your critics to compare you and contrast you. And we all watched your and Gabby's season.

Like, it was just almost impossible not to be compared just almost by default it was and I remember not having to share the spotlight and still there were moments where I felt like I was on the bachelorette again because like once I was like okay I think I'm gonna pick this person I was like oh okay, I think I'm going to pick this person. I was like, oh shit. What if they don't like me? What if they, and it was, I already got insecure. And again, I didn't have to share the spotlight. I'm assuming that must've been a very difficult challenge for you. Yeah. Obviously I just want to start out by saying like, yes, it was so difficult. There were so many things. I'm so happy I did it with Gabby, like our friendship and like

the way we are. It was worth everything to have someone like that in my life. But of course, it was so hard. Not only were we doing it for the first time, we were leads for the first time, but production, everyone was doing this for the first time. Like, how do we balance this? How do we make the girls both equally feel special and I think the biggest thing for me looking back was the power and everything was completely in the men's hands totally and it was kind of just week after week like what's going to happen to me and I mean people watch that rose ceremony where I got all those roses rejected and you're already like why am I here like these people are supposed to want to date me and then the week after the Logan issue and it's like I got to a point even just me, I was like, do you guys want me to leave?

Like, do you guys just want the one bachelorette thing? Like, because if that's the case, I'll step down and that's fine. But you start to get really in your head just comparing yourself subconsciously. And of course, Gabby's the most beautiful, secure woman. And I'm like, oh, my gosh, like doing this for the first time. So it was just yeah, it was crazy. And I think the environment wasn't the best for me. So yeah, I think Paradise was a little bit more of my environment. Did you make any good friends down there? Like who did you become close with? Did anyone surprise you? Yes. So the girls are incredible. I'm so happy I got to do this season with the group of girls, everyone who came down first and I love all of them.

But one of my closest friends is Blake. He was kind of the only person I knew. Moines. Yeah. I feel like there's a lot of Blakes in paradise. Always a Blake. There has to be. But yeah, we kind of knew each other before just in the Bachelor world.

And having him there was like really amazing for me. Yeah. And not a lead but he certainly has plenty of experience yeah bachelor experience so he's probably fairly knowledgeable i guess yes a nice voice and blake is kind of a calming presence yeah he's he really is and he will tell you when you're being crazy or when you're doing something wrong so he's just very reserved always like taking things in and like just absorbing did he have that moment with you or was it with other people or did he have like a hey rachel like oh yeah if

someone needed to like bring me back down to earth it was it's always blake um okay yeah he's great i thought it was so funny when you posted uh the photo of like you crying on paradise and like i am someone who cries constantly i cannot imagine how much I would cry in like the heightened like environment of reality tv I was curious for you like how being on reality tv has like changed your relationship with crying or like made you think about showing emotion yeah like for me I guess I've always just shown emotion I'm a crier I put all my emotion into everything and people did not have the best reaction to that but I I just kind of, I'm like leaning into it. I'm like, that's just who I am. I'm going to go on the beach and I'm going to be crying.

And that's the one thing I can tell you. Guaranteed. Vulnerable and emotional. Yeah. What's the most unfair criticism you've ever received? Or where someone got it wrong? I don't know. I would say probably some of the things you said a little bit.

I mean, of course you are just doing your job. We know that at the some of the things you said a little bit. I mean, of course, you are just doing your job. We know that at the end of the day. But I think there are a lot of things that go into the show, the way things actually happen, the way I see it in my head and the way the audience sees it. So you always just want to shake people and be like, no, I meant this or I was doing it because of this. But kind of just have to take things for the way that they're just viewed. Is there anyone in particular that really rubbed you the wrong way what do you mean no like things that you said yeah like but yeah just like we always say on this show you know when we are recapping the bachelor

we don't know these people it's edited we're discussing behaviors obviously we recognize it can be a very sensitive, invulnerable thing. I didn't like it when Sean Lowe called me a serial killer every Monday night on Twitter. So I get it, you know? Serial killer. Like every week. He didn't ever find like a new word?

It was just always... There's a lot of serial killer. There were some pretty harsh ones. Did you just give like a vibe? Was it like a look in your eye what what do you think should i ask sean unfortunately for me he he wasn't the only one who had similar opinions yeah on on those seasons but no but like is there one in particular whether it was something i said or we said on the show where you're like the fuck

like i don't get why you said that or i don't agree with that point of view and i don't know why people think this like you know i'm not a serial killer like that you know i brought that up but is there anyone in particular that you just felt like was unfair or inaccurate i think for me mostly just looking back and and seeing play out, I really can see where people were getting the criticism. I mean, I watched it too. There were moments where I was like, why are you doing this? Why are you acting like that? But for me, I think the biggest thing was, I mean, me and Gabby are doing this for the first time, a dual season, like putting yourself in our shoes. It is a hard thing, but me and Gabby are being like kind of pitted against each other with

these men we have no idea who's really here for us so i was just doing the best i could with what was in front of me and i mean i i wish people gave us both a little more grace but again yeah i can totally see where some of the criticism was coming from okay does that make sense if i hurt your feelings i'm sorry it's okay i'm glad you're here i'm sorry for hurting your feelings thank you thank you but it's true like i think people are so selective with empathy and will really go out of their way to apply it for certain situations and then can be really like i don't know i just think it's very easy for people to talk about stuff while completely suspending empathy and not necessarily being aware of it themselves and being like oh well I think I'm an empathetic person I applied it to this scenario but like really suspend it in certain

cases that I think could just be really hard yeah speaking of difficult we had the pleasure of interviewing your ex you know and I hate to go back to the past, but if you'll indulge us. Of course. There's nothing I'd love more. Mostly because he, for whatever reason, has decided to talk about you recently. This past weekend, what did he... Was this in response to something?

Are you aware of this, Rachel? What I'm aware of is that it's because his contract is now up. So he was doing an interview. He was doing an interview, yeah. And he said what? He was just talking about the new season of the bachelor and obviously you know he was asked about you you're going to be on the beach and he was like yeah that's fine but i'm going to be tuning in for my boys or something and then talked about how he'd had a missed call

from you and doesn't feel like there's anything that he needs to say you reached out i will say i did not reach out i did it but like i said before my big thing is i really do love being able to have that friendship with my exes i have one with clayton with zach with even with everyone except him that is something i really would love to have in the future at least be civil as far as know, I did not reach out to him. And I do think it's interesting that a call is the only thing I guess you can't provide like a receipt for.

Because I tried to scroll back. I really, I was like, oh, did I? Did I call him? I don't even know because I mean, maybe I did call him. I don't know.

I went back and I was like, oh, you can't even go back that far in your call. So I was like, I really don't think I called him. But to your knowledge, you didn't. To my knowledge, I didn't.

I would love to have a conversation with him if he's ever open to it. I'm not willing to die on that hill if he thinks I called him. I mean, Bachelor World is so small and it's like there's just no need to have any bad blood. It's just not worth it. And then what recently? He said, she's perfect for somebody. It's just not me. I really think she will be an

excellent partner to someone else but that was in response to him earlier saying something like if she thinks she can find love on the beach good luck or something like that yeah he said that in multiple ways good for her not good luck yes good for her it's like the going on intro i wish you well but there's i mean like is it possible that he was more speaking about Bachelor world? Like if she thinks she can. Or do you see that as a dig? So the two, I guess, quotes that really did hurt me. I'll be completely honest and I will say this.

So on the record, I don't have control over how my time on The Bachelor ended. I just don't. over how my time on The Bachelorette ended. I just don't. And to hear him say if she thinks that she can find love, good luck, all while talking about how easy it's been for him

to be dating again and move on. And I think another thing he said was she needs a couple years. And then when she gets out of the spotlight, she'll be able to find someone. I can find the exact quote, but that's what he said in the most recent interview. He you dating that's so condescending i i just don't understand why yeah why am i not allowed to move on and why am i not allowed to find love why do

i need a couple years yeah tina why are you giving rachel relationship advice i know you're going to listen to this. Yeah. Yeah. And it's just hard because, I mean, I will say I did listen to his interview with Nick and I mean, I was on my couch, full glass of wine, ready for this exclusive sit down. And I was so impressed, I think, with the way you handled the interview. He showed so much empathy and he was really able to look at the situation coming out of it. There had been time that passed. I just want to say, good for you for admitting that you listened to it.

Most people would lie about that. Yeah, I saw the cliff notes. I don't know. I didn't watch. Someone sent me a message. I watched it. Full glass of wine. Up to the brim. Notepad. Glass of wine. Was there any, to the brim? Was there taking my note? I felt like Tino would really tried to find that balance between sharing his

truth and trying to take responsibility also while complimenting you. But nevertheless, you're here. We got to talk to Tino. Was there anything that you felt like you didn't totally agree with or you found completely inaccurate? Well, I think the way he did speak about what happened, I really appreciated that he gave our relationship, I think, the respect it deserves. I think a lot of people kind of forget in the midst of everything that there was a point where

we, you know, were in a really rough place. but I was able to really work on myself and get myself to where he needed me to be for us to be successful. And we did start really progressing forward. And so when he did finally tell me about all this, it was just, obviously I was angry. I was overwhelmed. And I think the way he described it, it was pretty accurate. But yeah, I guess now hearing the way he speaks about it and the way he's kind of completely done a 180 on the way he thinks things went down, it's just hard to hear because I feel like it completely redacts everything he said here. It almost seems like to you, correct me if I'm wrong, that the interview I had with Tino seemed, from your point of view,

to be fair, both sides. And as time has gone on, it sounds like, from your point of view, that Tino's painting himself as more of the victim rather than a equal party in a relationship that failed. I wouldn't say as much that he's a victim. I think he is just pushing, I think, the blame a little bit more onto me than he did in the past where I'm not saying that I'm innocent by any means. Like we were having problems and some of it was because of me and my issues. But it feels like almost now it was like, well, because she acted this way, that's why I did it. And I don't really think it was that bad. And there is so much more than just the physical kiss. Like there was this emotional relationship happening. And this person that it happened with was someone he was going to date after the show. So it's just hard for me to hear him, I guess, continue to be like, oh, it's just this one drunken mistake because it wasn't. It was him, I think, maybe subconsciously trying to feel better because he was a little bit jealous about what was happening on screen. And you can understand that. I completely understand that. It's a hard thing. The winner is in a tough spot. I haven't

experienced it, but I've seen it firsthand and it's definitely a challenge. This wasn't some random girl. What do you mean by that? Because I got the impression. I think that's what he. It was just some girl he ran into at a party. No, he was going to not date, but was planning on seeing this girl got cast in the show. I know he told me, you know, they kind of, it didn't really go anywhere

because he wanted to put his all into the show and see where it went. But I don't think anyone goes on and like, you know what? I'm getting engaged like 100 percent. He didn't know. And so he came back and she was kind of like, OK, like, where's this going? Why aren't we dating? And he was put in this awkward position of I, you know, I have a contract.

I can't tell her this. And when he did tell me the story, he was you know there had been a couple times where i was out and we were flirting a little there was a little bit of like texting and i was like you know like that's fine like flirting it's innocent i think it was coming from a place of understanding queen in the same conversation he did tell me he cheated on me and then i was like hang up like i wasn't like oh oh, like completely understanding. But you were trying to be empathetic to the situation he was in. Yeah.

And he was in a tough spot. We were fighting. We were not on a break. We were still fully engaged. As you know, I don't have a ring to give back to this man. We don't have the ring. They take it away. So we did talk about taking a step back because the relationship was failing. And I was talking to my therapist. I'm

like, I don't know what to do. Like, I'm going to marry this person, but it's not working. And she's like, well, why don't you guys try to be friends? I was like, I didn't even think of that because you go on the show and you connect on all these values and these important life things. And then all of a sudden you're in a room together alone for the first time and you're like, are we even friends? Like, can we take this a step back? So I think I was just like, I need a second. We need to take a step back. And understandably, he was upset. Completely understand. And yeah, I guess there's just a lot to the story. It doesn't matter now. I really have moved forward. That's not something I want to like harp on or be like, he was wrong for this, this and this. But I guess it's just hard to know what I know and then still have all this.

You're doing us a favor. You're just answering our questions. Yeah. And also to hear him start to be negative. It's like, for what and for why? Like we've moved, it's been so long, we've moved past it. Exactly. What would you have done differently if you could go back with regards to that relationship? I mean, there's so much. I think even just for me, I really was needing him to be like 100% there for me. And I think there were times where I can't understand what he was going through as someone who is engaged and now has to watch back.

We have these relationships, see everyone online being like, oh, she's 100% with Zach. She's 100% with Avon. understand what he was going through as someone who is engaged and now has to watch back me have these relationships see everyone online being like oh she's a hundred percent with Zach she's a hundred percent with Avon it upset him and he would bring those things to me and I'm like well I picked you like can you just be here for me now because I'm going through all this stuff and I wish I would have been more of a supportive partner in that regard because I definitely did fall short in that but But it's almost impossible. Yeah, it's hard to go back and say what I would have done different. I tried my best.

I really worked on the relationship. I did everything I could for it to work. But I think when you're already in such a rocky place, when something like that happens after you promised to spend the rest of your life with me, I don't think I'm in the wrong for ending it. Yeah. I can't speak to like why Tino decided to give you relationship advice, third party, or why he's saying what he's saying. But, you know, when I talked to Tino, when I interviewed him, even during the interview and after the interview, he really did overall

have nothing but nice things to say about you. He had his frustrations and certainly he had a lot of hurt and pain. Disappointment. And it was like, obviously at the time when I interviewed him, it was pretty raw, you know? And I guess like,

you're just hearing you, I guess that, you know, it's a, it's a, you know, it's just kind of, I'm glad,

hopefully you guys can move on. It's a sad situation. And I know what you guys have been through. And it's just kind of a bummer, I guess, being in this environment. And, you know sometimes we play a role in it this show but just the audience and the fans and fans often don't

allow former couples who break up a chance for reconciliation or friendship because they're picking apart every little thing you're saying and every little thing you're doing and they're kind of instigating you know fights through the thing you're doing. And they're kind of instigating, you know, fights through the internet and things like that. And they're kind of setting people up. And I've, I've been a victim of it. I've played into it, you know, so to speak, you know, I certainly knew it. Like when I was, went back on Caitlin season, you know, it was just a lot of animosity. And I always tried to like, have these positive relationships with the two bachelorettes of the seasons I was on.

And it always felt like I could just never got to that place because it was always like someone was responding to something else or, you know, someone responding because some fan sent something and said, can you believe what so-and-so said about this? And I just finally had to decide to be like like i'm just never going to comment or mention again just because it seems like fans sometimes don't want us to have that reconciliation and sometimes we play into it because you know we have a moment of weakness where we read a comment or someone comes to you and says can you believe believe what so-and-so did or said or things like that? Do you feel like that, what I'm describing is something that you've

experienced with the relationship with Tino or even Clayton? I get exactly what you're saying. And it is so hard because all of a sudden I'll start getting all these messages like, Zach said this, Clayton said this and you want to just like be like well this is my side and this is that but I feel like the best thing I ever did was sit down with Zach sit down with Clayton and really just be able to have that friendship with them it has helped me move forward and not feel like this experience has been negative for me yeah when Avin came out on after the final rose and it seemed like you were very surprised and taken back like what was that like seeing him

and like was there a part of you that wanted to entertain kind of exploring the romantic potential or just in the midst of all the tino drama it probably seemed like it wasn't the best environment to do that so like what was your mindset surrounding that connection can i add to that question too in the sense that or do you wish they never sent him out there? I will say like to this day, I feel like there is a lot of confusion with like, I was somehow in charge of that or Avon was somehow in charge of that. Like no one knew like that was happening.

Especially not you. I mean, you could see my face, but I think that I've even seen things online. Like, oh, well that was Rachel's doing, or I mean, yes, I did walk off but I think that I've even seen things online like, oh, well, that was Rachel's doing. Or I mean, yes, I did walk off the stage, but I've said this before. I would have walked off the stage with anyone. I did not want to be there. I thought we were just going to sit down and be like, hey, he was going to be like, I'm sorry. I'm like, OK, like, let's get off the stage.

And then we started fighting again. So I just really didn't want to be there. But the week before I had sat down with Avin, we had such a good conversation. I really feel like we were in a great place as like friends and moving forward. And so when I just saw him, it was like this beacon of like, oh, my gosh, he's like, what's happening? And I was just like happy. But I don't condone bullying or I know that that made Tino feel like bullied in a way.

So it's hard for me to look back and remember that. But at the time, you know, you're only just thinking like how much you don't want to be there. Does that make sense? That was the show I was doing. You know, that was a TV moment. And I know they wanted to give me like, and I like, I don't even want to be like, oh, well, they did this.

Like they were trying to be like, oh, hey, here's like this last moment you're going to see Rachel and like what what could happen? And I get, they did this. Like, they were trying to be like, oh, hey, here's like this last moment you're going to see Rachel. And like, what could happen? And I get what they were doing. I think it could have been done in a different way. And obviously, no one wants Tino to feel like that. Avon didn't want to go out there and put himself in that situation. They're friends, Tino and Avon.

So, yeah, it was just all around a little bit. It's really interesting, too, because it was reminiscent of the Tyler Cameron. Yes. And Hannah Brown situation with Jed. And it's fascinating how there's such a fine line between how an audience is going to receive it. Because I don't think the show was trying to set you up for failure, and yet they did. Oh, I turned into a villain right off, already villainized. And then now it's like, oh, well, she's definitely in the wrong for doing that. And I can see it. But in the moment, you're not, it's live. You're not thinking about anything. You're just, yeah, I don't know.

Well, thanks for clearing the air on that. Yeah, as much as I can. Who knows? It was just a blur. All you people listening to our podcast who love to walk the city, you're walking warriors. I'm one of them. I love to get outside whenever I can get my steps in. Well, if you live in a city, often you are dealing with inclement weather. You're dealing with puddles. You're dealing with stuff that gets your feet wet.

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with TurboTax Live. Should we talk about Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey? Oh my God. Are you following that, Rachel? I was gone all weekend. So I like didn't know that.

Yes, of course I'm a Swiftie. Oh my God, a lot of Swifties. But she was at the game or something I didn't see. Yeah, she was. With his mother. Standing beside his mom.

Hard launch by the mom. Right? And walking out together. game or something i didn't see yeah she was oh with his mother standing beside his hard launch by the mom right and walking out together and in his drop top convertible like into the sunset i can't wait for the album his outfit his outfit that he was wearing to the game is 1989 reminiscent yeah what i think the it's like the bedroom bedroom painting. Yeah. The name of the. The name of the outfit is 1989 or something. She. She picked it out for him, right? Literally mastermind.

No. Yeah, totally. Didn't she? She picked it out for him. I feel like. Or he. He picked it out for himself and he was like, this is funny. Yeah.

I think they're leaning the fuck in. So I read a tweet about someone saying how like in eight years of dating, Joe, Joel, Joel, Joe, whatever you keep doing this. Cause I disrespecting my guy mentioned like her name once and how like,

like Travis has been kind of, he's talking a lot about her in a way that like, it seems like a lot of Taylor's fans appreciate in a sense, like he's proud to be like courting her and he's proud to be pursuing her where like almost like Joe almost like didn't ever want to mention her name and like almost was like uncomfy about dating Taylor and that like a lot of the fans seem to be appreciating Travers's pursuit of Taylor. Well, we were saying this like when she and Joe first broke up that, you know, she needs

to find someone who's like top of their game as well, but in a completely different field as her. And that's what he is. Didn't they win last year? They won the Super Bowl. Okay. Yeah. So there you go.

This is a dream come true for me. These are like my two favorite worlds colliding. You got pop culture and football. And whatever y'all need to know about this football side of things, I am here to let you guys know. Travis is considered by many to be one of the greatest tight ends of all time. Obviously, you know of Gronk, Amanda, being the Patriots fan. I sure do.

But the more Travis plays, the more he is challenging gronk for that title hey if gronk hadn't gotten injured constantly i think i'm sure yeah but it's like you know because i think there was a little bit of a rumor that you know he was like i think he publicly invited her to a game yes right okay he even said and you know yeah and you know that she was probably like i'm not not really interested in you, Travis. And he was like, just come to a game. Like, just come to a fucking game. And he scores touchdowns and he's like so swaggy.

It's like he knows. It's like, you're going to see me. Yeah. And she's up there screaming, let's fucking go. Like, she is into it. She loves it. It's so cute. I really like an athlete for Taylor.

It's fun. It's different. Right? Not like these other emo musicians or magicians. She loves it. It's so cute. I really like an athlete for Taylor. It's fun. It's different. Right? Not like these other emo musicians or magicians. Maybe she's dating a magician. She's too successful in her own career to be dating other people in her league. Yeah. Because she's top of the league.

She's so top of the league. So she went to the National Football League. So she went to the National Football League and she's dating someone who's also at the height of his game absolutely and doesn't need to compete with her like travis kelsey is not lacking in confidence in charisma like he is a charismatic king and i think he can really hold his own and also in terms of work ethic like for her being on a tour the amount of physical exertion it is to perform for that amount of time and just like the rigors of travel. He can truly empathize and understand what it's like to be in the thick of that kind of insane schedule. Because he is also performing for a length of time and he's exhausted.

Yeah. For three hours. Anyone who's out there being like, I don't get what's such a big deal about it. Like, whatever. Like, first, you're not fun. This is just fun. Who is saying that?

Shut the fuck up. I don't like that. There are people out there. I don't like that. I've seen it. I feel like this situation is going to inspire a lot of, like,

book talk books in a year or two of, like, famous singer secretly dating famous athlete. You know what I mean? Because it's so, like,

worlds divided. It's rom-com. It's so good. You're going to get a good 2010 rom-com. You're going I mean? Because it's so like, world's divided. It's rom-com. It's like a good 2010 rom-com. You're going to get more and more athletes dating celebrities outside of athletics and talking about it. Because this is going to be big for Travis. Huge.

This is just like the definition of shooting your shot though. Like he put his number on a friendship bracelet. It was like, I wanted to give her this bracelet, but like she didn't want to talk to anyone after the show and then that obviously went viral but it's like yeah just shoot your shot oh Taylor was also seen in New York

allegedly out with the Haim sisters and it wasn't the Haim it wasn't the Haim sisters it was my friend I saw and I texted her nice fit and then I let her know to say if Sophie was there which she was

and then one time where Sophie saw me at the Dodger game I did like DM her and say it was really nice to meet you and she did respond

like something really nice like yeah thumbs up thumbs up something really nice like she thumbs up she didn't thumbs up but she like

definitely like acknowledged it but she was married at the time very respectful queen and then I messaged She didn't thumbs up him But she like Definitely like Acknowledged it But as a She was married At the time Very respectful Queen And then I messaged

Sophia And just let her know That here at the household Sophia Team Sophia Who's Sophia? Sophie Sophie Turner

Joel and Sophia It's like the opposite Of a nickname Like you just make it A little longer Sophie Sorry Yeah

I messaged Sophie Here at the household We're team Sophie She didn't Obsessed. Did not respond. She didn't double tap. She didn't thumbs it up.

But I thought it was important for her to know that she has our support. Of course. Yeah. That was iconic too. Like Taylor being arm and arm with her. But that's what I'm so fascinated about the Travis thing is that nothing Taylor does is an accident. It's not a coincidence.

It is well thought through. Because Natalie yesterday, she's like, well weren't holding hands you know at the end and I'm like she could have just left she could have you know game ends Travis's mom and Taylor they could have just privately walked out gone to like met up at Travis's house or somewhere who knows no she went down to the locker room and walked out with them so what if they're not holding hands oh holding hands would almost been like too much yeah like she was with his mom she met his family yeah and they're like they they look like best friends yes they're having so much fun together so much fun yeah i think my boyfriend was telling me about a tweet or something that was like thank god taylor swift found music and wasn't like a serial killer because she would be the most like prolific

serial killer of our time when you think about how like thorough and thoughtful she is true and i really i've been thinking about that her man was wearing an outfit that was labeled 1989 and then they left like two bandits in a convertible on their like in their like a getaway car oh my god our song's already been written our song's already been written literally

because she's like and then they went to a restaurant and they paid for everyone to leave so that they could eat there generous queen that's what happens you make a billion dollars on a world tour

but what if they were like not done eating yet like what if people didn't want to go I would buck myself well they probably kicked people out but they're just more like yeah they probably just reserved not done eating yet. What if people didn't want to go? I would buck myself up for a couple hundred. Yeah, they probably just

reserved. I think they did kick people out. The quote was, they were eating and the waitress came up to them and said, here's the deal. Everything's paid for, but you have to leave. Like, right now. But this girl texted her friend and was like, how insane is this? Like, what a good story.

I'm sure they gave them boxes. If Taylor Swift kicked me out of a restaurant i would going forward for the rest of your life for the rest of your life you're like did uh i don't know did like taylor swift ever buy you dinner no that's your that's your two truths and a lie taylor swift bought me dinner um i i broke my ankle when i was six and I've never been to Disneyland. That's crazy. Which one's the lie? I did not break my ankle. You've never been to Disneyland?

Wait. Wait, how does this game work? Wait, I think those were all lies. I literally just made those up. She wasn't referring to her. No, just making it up. Rachel, I know obviously we can't talk too much about your love life because you might be engaged, you might be in, obviously, we can't talk too much about your love life because you might be engaged.

You might be in a relationship. We don't know. But what has, you know, no disrespect to what might be your current partner now. I don't know if you're in a relationship, but like, what has dating been like for you since the Tino breakup? Obviously, it's not easy to date in Bachelor World. Have you gone on any dates with anyone out in Bachelor Nation? You know know because it

is easier sometimes to date in the franchise very relatable you know you don't have to explain yourself there's nothing worse than going on a date and realizing they're a fan that sucks yes yeah well my new red flag is if they said um i watched your season or i you know i applied for your season when i so i'm red flag that That's my newest. But you're right. There is some, I think, form of security in Bachelor Nation just because we truly know what it's like to be dating in that environment and then dating outside. And you're right. It is. It's very nice. since my breakup on The Bachelorette. I did start seeing someone very, very quickly after AFR,

which at the time there had been time passed. But I think I felt a lot of pressure in myself to feel like, oh, see, I'm desirable and I've moved on and I'm dating. And he was such a great guy. Honestly, we had such a great time, but there was so much I still had to heal from, not only just from Bachelorette, from Bachelor and coming off of everything. And so that was, you know, dating. We didn't really actually make things official. But yeah, for a little bit,

I saw someone. And then after that, I've been really completely single until Paradise. So I was able to really take self-reflection and figure out what I had been through and be really prepared for my new partner on the beach. And yeah, so that was something that was really nice. Nice. Yeah. Also, are you flying these days? So that's a whole story. It is.

So I am a teacher. I'm a flight instructor. Oh, that's right. Yes. Yes. And a lot of people, there's like a lot of like, oh, she's not flying anymore. I 100% plan on going back. I love it. I taught in between Bachelor and Bachelorette.

It was so hard. Being like a woman in just an area of men when a show is airing, especially a show like Bachelor, where I'm looking unstable and it's tough. My students are 17-year-old boys. They're very aware of what's happening. And I mean, just the whispers around the airport and things like that. It was hard. It was a nightmare. It was horrible. It's actually funny. I was just talking to my best friend. He worked with me and I got announced as Bachelorette while I was still working there and like my boss's boss he like walked in when I was like the day I like resigned and he was like I don't even understand like she's not that attractive like I don't get it like the way

they treat women that's a whole story I could go I could go on about so I did take time off for bachelorette I was like I'm gonna move I'm gonna take time off I Bachelorette. I was like, I'm going to move. I'm going to take time off. I got surgeries. And then that was a pause. And now Paradise is airing. So as soon as, you know, I'm not on the screen, I can't wait to get back and start teaching. Yeah, you are very vocal, which I love about your breast reduction surgery. Yes. Is that something that like. For I know there's probably a ton of women who are it's something that they struggle with their whole life like how did you find the confidence to like finally because I know like I work in in plastic surgery so I see a lot of the fears are like scarring and like are people gonna want to have sex with me or like think I'm beautiful if I have like scars on my breasts like

how did you find the confidence to do that yeah Yeah, I get that question all the time, too. Like the amount of women it is. I get messages every single day about it. I have always my whole life just been a shorter person. I feel like they didn't really fit my body. Yeah, it's something I've always, always wanted. And I, you know, watch myself back on The Bachelorette. And I think there were so many times where a lot of my confidence issues coming from the way I felt my body, the way my clothes were fitting, especially when I was next to someone who I mean, Gabby is tall and just so beautiful. And she's wearing these incredible

gowns. And I'm like, OK, well, what on this rack can I wear? And Carrie did such a good job. Carrie is the stylist of helping me feel beautiful beautiful but I really was so uncomfortable in my body and being able to do that and then go to the beach I don't think I could have went to the beach in general without doing it just because of like the bathing suit issues but I think just the confidence I feel in myself this is the first time people will ever see me on tv truly feel confident in myself completely. So I'm excited for that to play out in like more ways than just my body image on the screen. Yeah. Oh my God.

That's awesome. Yeah. It's amazing. I also just want to go back and acknowledge the work stuff, you know, because I know you said you want to go back, but I also feel like there's like this weird pressure that some fans in Bachelor Nation will play on cast where it's just like, you've changed, you know, it's like this weird pressure that some fans in bachelor nation will put on cast where it's just like you've changed you know it's like i sold fucking software sorry i don't want to go back like you know like insane and teacher nurse whatever it is that these people might

have done they didn't go back to it's like yes they're noble professions and i quite loved my job that i had and was grateful to have it but like, yes, they're noble professions. And I quite loved my job that I had and was grateful to have it. But like, I'm not less of a fucking person for like trying this new thing out and taking a chance. Like, exactly. Leave me alone. I mean, genuinely, that's the comment I think that gets to me the most. And it's just like, even when I was working full time, I'm not posting about aviation every day. First of all, like they don't really like us to be filming. We're flying a plane. Like I know people want to see more aviation content. I'm like, I understand that. But I'm just like, I can't be on vacation. They're like, why? Like, so like you didn't

go back to your job. I'm like, I'm on vacation. Like, give me a break. But I get it. People know I'm passionate about it. It's a big thing for me. So I think people are like, oh, what's happening? But yeah, like you said, we get this incredible opportunity. I got to go back down to the beach. I'm like, I'm going to give myself some time off. And then I have the rest of my life to do that. And it is what I love, but it's insane. People say that to me too. And it's like, I'm working. Like I'm on my phone. Like, what do you mean? Yeah. And even if you decide to take a break or not go back, like anyone who's been a teacher, you know how impossible it would be to go back and be a teacher, like you said, 17 year old boys or high school students, if, you know, in Michelle's situation,

like how much of a challenge that could be to go back and try to like run a classroom, virtually impossible. So like, and even if that's not the case even if all you want to do is like maybe take a break and try a new thing there's nothing fucking wrong with it but some weird circles and batronation will like try to shame you back into like going back to like what you did before as if like you're a worse person because you want to try something new or take a risk. You know, it's so bizarre. Yeah, or wait for stuff to cool down so you could actually rejoin a professional environment

and be treated like a professional. Right. Exactly. That's exactly it too, because you wouldn't be treated like a professional when you're like on screen, like I'm crying on stairs and you want me to like teach someone what a stall angle is. They're like, oh, I watched you in fantasy suites last night. Like, how are you supposed to react to that?

Like, things like that. Like me doing the T-Rex, you know, wearing a turtleneck. So many moments that my students wouldn't take me seriously if I had them.

Exactly. We hardly take you seriously. Yeah, exactly. Totally. Did you guys see Kaylin and Dean's wedding? We did. Yes.

Beautiful. It was a camp theme. It was so fun. I just saw they had a tattoo artist at their reception. Wasn't she tattooing him? She tattooed him. Incredible.

They're so fun. She tattooed Dean. Oh, I thought you were like... Not the tattoo artist. I thought they tattooed Dean's face on Kaylin. Oh, God, no. Maybe.

No, I think she put like her initials or something on him. Okay. I'm not sure. And then I also just saw Kalen posted this morning That he changed last minute His song that he walked down the aisle to To lose yourself by him and him And that he was just like jamming Going down the aisle

And that feels very Dean So it looks like a very fun wedding Would you guys get tattoos at a wedding? I feel like I should not be trusted like three drinks deep at a wedding with a tattoo artist like i feel like i would make a very impulsive choice and they're like sketchbook that like you can choose from is just only about the bride and groom three things that you could choose from like the custom cocktail list yeah it's like you get their wedding date tattoo their wedding date they're like 9 23 23 like what's that for it's like it's some wedding i went to it's like you get their wedding date tattooed. Yeah, their wedding date, their initials. Like 9-23-23?

Like, what's that for? It's like it's some wedding I went to. It's my friends. Oh, my God. Did you see? There was a crazy, it was a low-speed police chase with a man on a golf cart running through, like, driving through the streets of Los Angeles with a dog. He's barefoot.

He's shirtless. And everybody was, like, watching it. I called my boyfriend, He's shirtless. And everybody was like watching it. I called my boyfriend and everybody at the bar was like watching it and like cheering along. Reminiscent of like the OJ chase. It was a big moment.

So he's on a golf cart. Like on the news, they were airing it and they had like a speedometer on the lower left screen of like going like 18 miles per hour or some shit. As a Floridian,

that is the most Floridian thing I've seen in LA. The craziest stories are from Florida. Genuinely. Yeah, Tyler taught me about the man from Florida thing. Yes. Like if you Google You didn't know Florida man? I didn't really know. I learned that on Special Forces. Yeah. So what did he

get arrested for? Like DUI or something? Probably. Yeah, he'd stolen the golf cart. Oh, he stole, I think. Or had like taken it from a mall. Either way, he should not have been where he was. Why are there so many golf carts?

Why are they going so slow though? Like they could easily catch up to him. That is like, yeah, why don't they just throw a spike strip out or something? And then the dog was like

running over and wanting like pats from all the police officers. It kind of looks like Kiki. It kind of looks like Kiki. It looks exactly like Kiki looks exactly like kiki a little bit fatter a little bit fatter yeah yeah well the camera does add 10 pounds rachel have you done have what was like what's the craziest thing you've ever done have you been arrested yeah i've never been arrested i have not been arrested nally has okay

whoa wait really is this beyond the mall thing three times i not been arrested. Natalie has. Okay. Whoa. Wait, really? Is this beyond the mall thing? Three times I've been arrested. Natalie! I know. It was a minor. Three times. I was all under 18.

I was all under 18, so I never got booked or anything. They just called my mom. But yeah, I was friends with the wrong girls, and they told me to shoplift from Dillard's. And I actually didn't want anything, but they did. And so they're like, we'll just put it in your bag because it won't fit in mine. And then we all got in trouble. And then the second one was underage drinking at a rodeo. Hey, you know, we all did it.

We all did. And then the third one was I when I lived in New York, I was we had vandalized and trespassed and we were spray painting a building and all of the cops showed up and all the people that I was with ran and I was scared and so I didn't run. So you just stayed. I just stood there and they were like, what are you doing? They were like, you don't want to run?

I was like, no, I'm scared. And they were like, get in the car. We're taking you home. They did put me in handcuffs all three times. They did? Yeah. The first time in the mall, they made me walk through the entire mall and I saw my principal. I saw

it's the smallest town ever. I saw everyone. And then the second time at the rodeo, we had to sit on the curb outside the rodeo handcuffed and all of our friends were just driving past us leaving the rodeo and they all saw us. Oh god and then yeah put me cop car new york in the bronx oh wow what the fuck was i doing in the bronx at 16 years old jailbird yeah look criminal if you haven't been arrested has there been like what is the most like kind of like unhinged

florida-esque shenanigan oh my gosh i don't even know anything on the top of my head. I'm so tame. Like when I was in high school, I was such a good kid. I don't know. I'm trying to think of good stories. I would have been afraid of your dad, too. Oh, yeah. Big Tony.

Yeah. He was scary. He's funny now. But back then. Yeah. Was your brother a good kid, too? Or was he? Yeah, he was good too everyone

kind of had a handle on things but yeah i don't know i i don't know i'd have to really think about that one go on the show too yeah wow i was so bad i think it's because i was the youngest and i was like i'm gonna act out to get attention probably well you were like living by yourself in new york as a 16 year old yeah so that'll get you you might fall in the wrong circles anyways rachel it's been such a pleasure thanks for having me guys so great to catch up we absolutely wish you the best of luck in paradise we will be rooting for you thank you we'll be super kind in our commentary. Yeah, just take it a little bit easier on me this time. A pinch.

Is there a character, Brayden? You were cynics to Brayden. Was it AFR or something? I was. Sparks were flying. We're Brayden fans here in this household. We love that TV maker. He is incredible TV.

Incredible. But the person, Brayden. Yes. What what do you think i really like brayden i think i was lucky when i came down i had not watched charity season i was just meeting him for the first time he was such a light like on the beach like people would just be in such a good mood around him i'm excited for him to get another chance in Paradise and see where that goes. Do you think there's a fan favorite out there who may not be a fan favorite by the time Paradise is done? Yes.

But I think things always, always switch. You never know how the audience is going to take it. And you never know what's going to show. I think you could really look at anyone on the cast and make them into a hero or a villain

or whatever anyone wants. So. Absolutely. We'll have to wait and see what kind of where the cards fall with everyone. So. Well, we're excited to watch.

Tune in this Thursday. Is it Golden Bachelor then Paradise or Paradise then Golden Bachelor? Golden Bachelor. You got to put the Golden Bachelor early.

Yeah. Yeah. You got it. the Golden Bachelor early. Yeah. You got to. Early bird special. Early bird special for sure. Well, make sure to watch Rachel and the rest of the gang this Thursday, 9 Eastern. And then Golden Bachelor is on at?

8. 8. Yeah, for the early going to betters. All the Dorothys out there. Are you going to watch Golden Bachelor? I am. I heard so many amazing things from production. early going to betters. All the Dorothy's out there. Are you going to watch Golden Bachelor? I am. I heard so many amazing things from production.

I think this is going to be like one of the best shows they put out. So it's very exciting. It finally happened. I heard a lot of optimism as well, specifically with the ladies. I think they were really pleasantly surprised with how, how the ladies turned out. Yes. That is what I heard too.

They seem like delights. Absolute delights. I think there might be a little, you know, not only the wholesomeness, but I think they could be a little crazy too. A little drama? I think they're going to surprise us. Bring a little housewives energy to Bastion Nation. That'll be good.

We love that. Well, fully loaded. We'll be talking about it next Tuesday. We'll be talking all about next tuesday we'll be we're talking all about it rachel thanks again thanks where can the people find you all my handles are pilot rachel and i'll be on bachelor in paradise on thursday yes all right go file pilot rachel even if she doesn't want to fly a plane right now yeah she doesn't have to change her fucking handle yeah thursday going deeper We got Raven and Miranda

Raven from You So Raven I'm very excited to talk to her That's so Raven You So Raven She's here We'll be talking with her and her wife Miranda I want to talk all about She inherited her powers from the show

And I really want to learn about that. Yeah, we're excited. So tune into that on Thursday. Bye. Bye.