The Viall Files - E651 Reality Recap with Gabby Windey - Love is Blind, Golden Bachelor, and BIP Plus Being a DILF

Episode Date: October 10, 2023

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Reality Recap Edition! Today we are joined by friend of show Gabby Windey to talk about all things reality TV. First, we talk about pop culture topics such as Clayton���s paternity results, Jax Taylor turning a plane around, and Olivia Wilde’s thoughts on Taylor Swift’s dating life. Then, we dive into the latest episodes of Love is Blind - from Izzy’s poor credit score and crying in a closet to Milton’s family having some tough questions for Lydia. Then, we talk about The Golden Bachelor and Gerry’s first dates with the women - like driving down the freeway and having a wedding photoshoot. Finally, we break down the second episode of Bachelor in Paradise and what we thought about Hannah Brown’s bonfire and the first rose ceremony.  “They’re the same kind of delulu.”  Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes. Join us for our new LIVE show on Thursdays at 9PM ET/6PM PT on Amp, available in the Apple app store. Android User? Listen here: https://www.onamp.com/   To Order Nick’s Book Go To: http://www.viallfiles.com  If you would like to get some texting advice on Office Hours send an email to [e-mail] with “Texting Office Hours” in the subject line! To advertise on the show, contact [e-mail] or visit https://www.advertisecast.com/TheViallFiles  THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: ShipStation - Set your business up for holiday season success with ShipStation. Go to https://www.ShipStation.com and use code VIALL today and sign up for your FREE 60-day trial. Drizly - Drizly is the go-to app for drink delivery. Download the Drizly app or go to https://www.Drizly.com/gifts and choose a great gift. Use code VIALL to receive $5 off or $0 delivery fee* off your first order.  * Must be 21+. Not valid in all states. Codes cannot be combined with any other offers. Not valid at all retailers. Code expires 10/31/23 11:59pm EST. Waterboy - For a limited time, our listeners get an exclusive 15% off discount when they use the code VIALL at https://www.waterboy.com  IQ Bar - Refuel smarter with IQBAR’s Ultimate Sampler Pack. To get your twenty percent off, just text FILES to 64000. Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @nnataliejjoy @gabby.windey @alison.vandam @liffordthebigreddog @dereklanerussell @genevievegoodman

All right, we're ready Sorry, mmm felt better about the second one I have surprisingly bad claps when I do this There's a way to well you're doing it wrong. First of all, who? If you do it vertical that's like the best way Oh Well, you just do it do it up close to the mic. Oh, I need do it vertical, that's like the best way. Oh. Well, you just do it up close to the mic. Oh, I see. And you do it to the camera. Sounds like a slate, right?

Yeah. It's more of a visual clap. Yeah. All right. But don't do that at a concert. You'll look... Yeah. Okay.

Don't do that anywhere in public. All right. All right. You're crazy. All right. What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to another episode of the Vile Files reality recap edition. I'm your host, Nick, joined by the entire household. We got Amanda, we got Genevieve, we got Allie here. Derek, our pop culture correspondent

and fiancé. That didn't sound like Derek was the pop culture correspondent and fiancé. I would never take that title. I would never take that crown, don't worry. Very, very special guest, Gabby Windy returns to the volleyball. We're happy to have her. Big round of applause.

Everyone is super excited. Oh Kiki is also super excited. Our office dog Kiki is here. Oh I love you Kiki. A lot going on. I had Amanda I'm going to need your help talking about this because I know that you are an advocate for conversations

around this topic in terms of what is okay to talk about or what not okay to talk about i feel like it's something that i've been trying to do a lot more like reading education on all the things because i feel like it's something where there's a lot of misconceptions i was told when natalie got pregnant that something that happens with expecting fathers is they put on sympathy weight and i didn't think much of it. And then over the, I've, I've been doing a project, I'm filming a show. Can't really talk about it yet. Anyway, uh, I'm required to wear suits and you know, I haven't really bought a lot of suits.

He's the host of The Bachelor. Not the host of The Bachelor. I have the new Jesse Palmer. And I was putting them on and like, you know, one felt tight and I was like, oh, maybe this is like an older suit. I don't know. Every suit I put on, I was like, I am so fucking uncomfortable. In fact, on Friday, when I put the suit on, I had to unbutton the top part of my pants because I was so uncomfortable driving there. Thanksgiving style. Yeah. And then I weighed myself over the weekend and I haven't weighed myself in I don't know how long.

And the results were shocking. You sound like your own Maury. But it's a first for me. And I realized that I really have been indulging in what I apparently took as permission to just eat whatever the fuck I wanted. I think since I got off of Special Forces, I didn't weigh myself. But I'm used to weighing this like give or take five pounds I've kind of always weighed the same and now I'm a good

25 pounds over that 25 damn and it's new for me I don't know but the I've identified the source of the problem which is you know it's like do you want a chocolate croissant I've I'll ask for two or I'll have a late night like cereal fix and I'll have an entire box of like, uh, cocoa pebbles.

And I've really, I've drinking so much more soda. You're very anti-soda. I just, it's not particularly good for you, but like, I've just, I'm saying yes to everything that's offered to me. Because Nick thinks he's also eating for two so you know we're pregnant we're giving birth these jeans i'm wearing i bought when i was like getting out of my skinny jean era it was like my hey i'm really like i'm i'm gonna go baggy fit now and these skinny jeans these motherfuckers are popping at the brim and i'm just this is a this is a new

experience for me i feel like it's so validating as a woman i'll say it like i think you know because our weight fluctuates all the time i mean it's fall i've sized up in jeans i'm like this is the answer to the problem like i'm just gonna like keep buying larger jeans okay it has been a new experience for me i woke up and ran this morning i'm gonna run this afternoon then natalie asked me to make chocolate chip pancakes on sunday after this revelation and i had to make her chocolate chip pan and watch her eat them yes i had to ruling a dog he came over to try and cut him a bite and he's like you know what no no i'm not going to do it. Can't stop at one. It's a whole new thing. But do you feel okay?

No. Okay. That is, I will say, like, to know that I've identified the problem, because I don't feel my best. I feel more tired and more lethargic. I'm not eating healthy foods. My sugar intake has drastically ticked up, you know, and increased. And so knowing that I've identified the source of the problem,

that I'm going to try to cut back from the sugar, basically. That's all I'm really going to do. Yeah. Maybe like cut out the fries instead of having two bags of potato chips at every lunch, like I normally do. I was going to not. I feel like, and also from what I have learned, it feels like there's a big push to be like, let's not just use body size as the only metric of health. It is simply like there are so many other data points that are important and some people are just

like in larger bodies. That is a natural part of life, but everyone's still allowed to have opinions and feelings about their own body changing. I wasn't sure. I think it's like having feelings and opinions and just being like mindful of other people in voicing them. I just know that my goal of being a

dilf is like I'm going the wrong direction. You're declining already. I've asked Natalie to shame me for the rest of her pregnancy. Judge you every bite you take. Private shame. I do think that's the worst thing you can do for your body.

Is like associate like food, like shame and emotion with eating as opposed to like intuitive eating. But that's the worst thing you can do for your body. It's like associate like food, like shame and emotion with eating as opposed to like intuitive eating. But it's the lack of self-discipline. It's saying yes to every, like, you know, on these sets of these shows, they'll have a, what are they? Craft services. Yeah, craft services. And it's always fucking junk food. And I'm there being like, oh, milk duds.

Me the cookie monster. me want more milk duds literally that's me just being like yes and I'll be pocketing some and it's like I know now you're stealing it sounds like you have like a lot of other things to reflect on anyway that was my weekend of a revelation Taylor Swift

she didn't go to the game and then Travis Kelsey got hurt oh no That was my weekend of a revelation. Taylor Swift. Yeah. She didn't go to the game. And then Travis Kelsey got hurt. Oh, no. After he called her his good luck charm. But he did come back in the game. Maybe. He seems okay.

I think he's okay. Do you think Taylor got on a FaceTime and then she kind of like Miyagi'd? Remember the Karate Kid Miyagi type of style where like maybe he didn't. She didn't do. She wasn't physically there. So she couldn't do the heated hands thing. but maybe she gave him some sort of seance she sang a little song that she wrote about him yeah about his tight end maybe maybe I don't think it's a big deal that she didn't go because it's like the New York one all of her friends are there like Blake and Ryan

she got to you know be with all her pals like that makes sense the home game that made sense too she got to like meet the mom and like whatever yeah but this is like Minnesota it's just a random place I don't know a single person from there you can't go to every game it's like a weekly occurrence and she doesn't

like flying to every game for three hours I go she's busy like yes New York made sense. It's like her home court-ish. She has a lot of home courts. Yeah, she does. Yeah, but New York totally made sense. But she also missed his birthday.

What do you mean missed it? He had a birthday. And she was there. Okay, I'm like, did she say happy birthday? I don't know. I'm done with you. That is always so awkward sometimes an early birthday? yes when you've been dating

for like a few weeks and you're like god damn the birthday's coming up what do we do how high key do we play it? and I feel like the answer is always like gift that is like thoughtful and referential but ultimately pretty small you know of like a joke about something that they said on one of the early dates where you can be like here I got you this thing

it's not high key it wasn't too much money, but it was like, I was listening to you. But they're both like billionaires. So it's like, where do you like draw the line? They're like, here's just something

like a little small. It's like $10,000. Yeah. I'm like, wait, what? Do we think Taylor is having input in his game day fits? Well, Travis Kelsey has always been fitted. Yeah.

Always. We haven't noticed an uptick at all. It's always... I don't know if you can uptick from where... I only just tuned in. Yeah, from where... I feel like he was known for his, like, fashion sense by being kind of out there, like, with fashion. Or, like, maybe as a man having more interest in it.

And, like, we love Taylor. We don't love her for fashion. Very true. I was also going to say she strikes me as and I mean this as a huge compliment like a huge fashion enabler. Like I feel like she always errs on the side of like

being like encouraging and be like if you feel good in it that looks fucking awesome. Like, you know, I don't think she would give some like harsh critical feedback to a partner's look, outfits.

Yeah. And I think maybe like he was he went to her and said I found this 1989 thing how funny and she's like oh I love that like you should absolutely wear it but I don't think she's picking out his clothes okay to be fair on his birthday he was only photographed hanging

out in his car in a parking lot so maybe he told her the plan and she was like no thank you that doesn't sound like any fun at all this is what I want to do with my birthday she's like I'm gonna pass I'll be in Prague. We can recline the seats all the way back.

Maybe he just wanted a low-key birthday as someone who recently had one and wanted to do literally nothing on my birthday. Maybe that's all he wanted to do.

Just sit in his car. In a parking lot. Sometimes you need to sit in your car. Sometimes you need to just sit in your car. I've done that. I get to a place and I'll

take a couple big breaths. Just need a few minutes. Sometimes I get home and it's like I'm home but I still need to sit in my car for a few minutes. Nothing to do with you, baby. Just like contemplating life. No, I'll track Nick and I'll see that he's just sitting outside of the house and I'm like, hmm, what is he doing out there? I go outside

and I'm like, what are you doing? And he's like, I'm on the phone. And I'm like, there you are. You don't hear anybody? Yeah. You're sitting in there. I'm doing anything. When you do that, I'm on the phone. I've never taken more than two minutes to just contemplate life and try to get back to neutral.

It's just, I don't get a lot of alone time, baby. Oh! News to me! That's what Nina really thinks she gets a lot of alone time, baby. Oh! Nice to me! That's what me and her relationship was. She gets a lot of alone time? She's carrying a child. Oh my God, I'm the worst, yes. You know how often I want to be alone?

I don't know. Every day. Oh, we're fighting now. Wait, why is Olivia Wilde coming after Taylor Swift? I don't know. This was so silly. She reposted a tweet. I wish Taylor Swift was in love

with a climate scientist, okay? What does that matter though? Like just because Taylor Swift has a lot of power, which I'm so here for her taking over the world and the NFL. I'm like, if Taylor Swift had any interest in governmental things, she should run for president

like with how much power she has but like just because she has a lot of power doesn't mean she needs to date a climate scientist like what's that gonna be like also it's not her job to yeah changed every problem no like she's doing great world yeah i mean i think part of it comes down to the criticism about her travel patterns which i just don't find to be fair. I mean, what are we doing on a personal level? Like, sorry, I feel like it's like big tech, me not knowing anything about the climate. But I feel like they're to blame.

Like, they use a lot of energy, I heard. Yeah. What are we going to do as singular people? Like, we have to look at like a bigger level. I feel like it was a huge scam to like put it on to like oh you as people in your household should be doing this as opposed to like the companies are making all this crazy literally like crypto well they don't make plastic but i heard mining is like really terrible yes it's like why why are we putting on taylor swift like she like she is not the whole world she's just one very like powerful person

they want it like they olivia wilde wants taylor swift to fly delta could you yes they don't want Like she is not the whole world. She's just one very powerful person. Olivia Wilde wants Taylor Swift to fly Delta. Could you? Yes, they don't want her to fly private. Read this as like just like a funny little tongue in cheek like blah, probably. I don't know. Like, oh, why don't you date a climate scientist? As opposed to why don't you date a climate scientist? I mean, I think it's also after Mark Cuban was like, why don't you date one of my basketball players?

You know, like everyone I think is kind of trying to get on this like Taylor Swift. Yeah, but even now we're talking about climate change. We don't talk about political topics on this show. And I think we're going to keep this in, but this is a sensitive topic that like, I'm sure some people listening to us, we're having a lightheaded conversation are going to have, might be triggered

or have strong points of view. And I think if you want to joke, I don't know if Olivia Wilde inserting climate change into the conversation is going to track well. It's a triggering topic for a lot of people. And it's and you're trying to put Taylor in a bad light, suggesting that she is not doing her part. Right. And like, I don't know if Olivia Wilde is like a huge jokester.

Like, does that really track? But yeah like i don't know if olivia wilde is like a huge jokester like it's like does that really track but yeah i don't know it's like well what do we think about travis kelsey can we get into that like yeah i mean but i've also heard he's like i don't know like didn't have the best reputation not that it matters again because it's like whoever taylor swift wants to date can date and like she's so famous that I feel like she needs to date someone obviously on her level. But like, what does he bring to the table? I don't know. That's also just me like thinking that like men are never good enough for my girlfriends. Taylor Swift be my girlfriend.

So like that's a conversation that's a different conversation. My understanding of Travis Kelsey is that, yeah, he's a bit of a playboy. He's a bit of a fuckboy. But at the same time, he's an exceptionally good-looking professional athlete. We're in hookup culture. If you listen to this show, I think everyone participating in hookup culture is a potential fuckboy. Man, woman, gay, straight straight doesn't matter who you are in a culture that is hooking up relatively quickly in dating culture without an emotional connection all it takes is two people having sex with one person liking the other person more for

the other person to consider that person a fuck boy which is kind of like i don't know what you just literally i was like this what's a fuck boy yeah no it's like you have sex without people really knowing each other and all it takes is one of those people to like the other a little bit more while the other person is like uh yeah you know I'm not really sure and then that person immediately starts thinking am I dating a

fuck boy because that person's having sex with you without having an interest in evolving the relationship which is like almost every relationship dynamic. It's like the nuance of dating, I feel, in the beginning, at least. So to my biggest criticism with people who lie about their feelings to elicit, I guess, sex,

I don't think Travis Kelsey is love bombing anyone and misleading people with their feelings to get laid. And if he's upfront with people about his intentions, then I got no problem with that. He might as well be a fuckboy until he finds someone he wants to settle down for, a la Taylor Swift. I think nobody's going to be good enough for Taylor Swift ever. So it's like, okay. I mean, his mom called her okay. No.

Yeah. I don't think she meant it like that though they said how was meeting taylor swift and she goes she's okay oh on morning news on air she said she's okay i think she just didn't really want to comment about it though do you think that yeah maybe you could be like she's so nice like obviously they were seen chatting in the body like she's very kind very sweet like we had a lot of fun. It is an odd response. She's okay.

And Taylor Swift is putting Travis Kelsey's mom on. Who cared about an interview with his mom ever before until Taylor Swift came into the scenario to at least give credit where credit is due? Yeah, everyone in the Kelsey family is now going to get like commercial dollars. Like Travis was already getting them, but like their marketability is tenfold now. His brother, Jason, Kelsey's wife has been like on the news for stuff she said about

their relationship. And it's like, yeah, OK. Yeah. Girl, that would be fucking crazy to be dating someone and to have access to all their family's opinion of you right like that i would not be healthy if i could know exactly how no brother the brother's girl because also the siblings if you have a brother who's straight i feel like their girlfriend is always like such a like a tough like their spouse you know what i'm saying yeah do you know what i'm

saying where it's like i feel like brothers will be like pretty chill but if there's like a tough like their spouse. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah. Do you know what I'm saying? Where it's like I feel like brothers will be like pretty chill but if there's like a long term girlfriend with a brother. Like the incumbent girlfriend. She'll be yeah because she's like I made it in here. I knew I know what it takes. Do you have what it takes? She's like the gatekeeper of the relationship. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Girl boss, gatekeep.

Yeah. And like she's probably done the initiation if there was any kind of like mother-in-law hazing. Yes. She's had she's probably done the initiation if there was any kind of like mother-in-law hazing she's had she's done it so yeah you're right that's a good take you're brutal anyways we bow down to Taylor Swift I don't know

before we finally get into talking about our topics that are love is blind the golden bachelor and bachelor in paradise we must talk about the Clayton Eckhart thing quickly. We attempted this a couple weeks ago when we had Rachel here. And for any of you who noticed- She's so tight-lipped.

It was in the clip. No, well, we at the Vile Files household, we did some research and I had some conversations with people very closely related to the situation. And we talked about it and ultimately edited it out because I just quite frankly didn't feel comfortable. Right. What I'm hearing is that this story is insane. And the stuff that is out there is a fraction of what is the story I've heard. Okay.

So what did you hear? Share with the class. I don't feel... I'm not going to share most of it. But for those of you who don't know, Clayton recently, last Friday, announced that in a very Maury Povich way that he was not the father.

Wait, how did he announce it? He did like a reel on Instagram. He was like, it's Friday. And he was like so excited. I'm not a daddy. Literally. That was literally his response. I'm dead.

It was an interesting creative choice on the part of Clayton. But nevertheless, I appreciate his enthusiasm. Can you look up what he actually said? Because I think what he said is important because I think it wasn't so much that he was not the father. I think the result wasn't enough. DNA. Yeah, like fetus matter

or like the swab that they got. Suggested that there wasn't a fetus or fetuses because the accusation was that this person was allegedly pregnant with twins. Here's what I'm comfortable saying what I heard. Okay.

What I heard from someone very close to the situation was allegedly there was no sex. Okay. So she's like sourcing the sperm from wherever she can find it. There was oral sex. Yeah. And allegedly I heard from someone close, very close to the situation. The neighbor peeking through the window. The sperm. The sperm, literally.

Was that Clayton like didn't think it was possible that this person could be pregnant, but like he's not a doctor and technically there was access to. Yeah. Like men are just stupid. Yeah, I'm like, yeah, so so what you're not a doctor you know how babies are made like just say it like did you like so that's what i heard that there wasn't

allegedly there was an intercourse but he wasn't comfortable coming out and being like 100 know that she's not pregnant because we didn't have sex because there was oral sex and there was climaxing i don't i don't even think that's still possible, but nevertheless, allegedly, that's what I heard. I just like, who would handle a situation like that? Like, I would just like go to everybody, like any kind of PR team, any kind of resource if I was Clayton and be like, how is the best way I could talk about it

if I know scientifically that there's no way I could really be the father unless there very much are like lines blurred like I feel like that's something you could you should be able to confidently say I would agree the other stuff I heard is so outrageous and so crazy hit us I can't oh my god you later who's your source is it oh you can't tell us that either I don't feel comfortable yeah just look at what is he doing he's happy he's happy i guess yeah i feel like that's the wrong tone for being accused of being like like a dad of twins like this isn't how i would respond

at least like match like the seriousness of this you know yeah more like i don't know i guess suzy's parents commented on it she said i love seeing my parents comment on this too. That's so sweet. I hope that Clayton wants to speak on this in more detail. It's my understanding that he has a ton of information and a ton of things in writing that would absolutely blow your mind about just how this this story started and how where it's at now. I did hear, which please feel free to cut. And I don't know if you have already talked about it,

but I heard this isn't the first time that this woman is accusing someone through the courts of this. Clayton posted on his Instagram stories something to that effect. I am not going to comment on that. That's just what I heard here say. But also I don't want to like ever get into the realm of like victim shaming. Yeah.

It's my understanding that allegedly Clayton never thought she was going to be pregnant. Yeah. That he was not surprised by the results as happy as he appears. Right.

And it's my understanding that he was always trying to take this test oh okay that was my second thought that he because that was my thought why don't you just take this stupid test that's what i was gonna ask i'm like as a man because i could i was thinking about it in a couple different ways i'm like when it first came out it was like he made it sound like he wouldn't just take it or like that's what you needed in order to debunk this and it's like if you feel so strongly wouldn't you just take it but then it's like well i guess being someone of some status i don't know how often this happens and if it's like so crazy would you just be willing to take a paternity test for like everyone or is it like some kind of like pride attached that's like, no, I don't need to get like given to this because I know it's not true.

Allegedly, it's my understanding that Clayton was very much trying to take this paternity test. And so the information suggesting that he wasn't from according to the sources I heard is that that was inaccurate. But allegedly to your question. Yeah. allegedly to your question yeah we learned that whether this has something to do with the case or not that um when you are pregnant with twins that it is far far far more difficult to take a paternity test that it is hard to find a place to conduct such a test because of the potential of two fathers whoa and so the theory is is that it's not a coincidence that the claim was twins oh i see okay so so then yeah would we have to wait until the babies were born like that's what

i thought we were gonna wait for well to be more like accurate to be more accurate but i guess but like obviously you want to settle it sooner rather than later but like how do they do it does well it's difficult you have to like go in outside i don't know because that might be dangerous for the baby yeah i mean this says it's not available because the current technology cannot isolate dna from both fetuses so again you can do it individually but right yeah the thought is that's not a coincidence. OK. Again, the results that Clayton put out there to me suggest that there isn't a pregnancy still in existence, whether there was or wasn't.

I don't know. Oh, they said little to no fetal DNA present at all. So that would mean no fetus if there's no fetal DNA. So it's not that he's not the father. It just that perhaps no one is perhaps no one is yeah this is all getting very sticky oh again i'm i'm what i have heard is it's so fucking it's i'll tell you about it after yeah but it's insane and i truly hope that clayton comes. I would love to have him on this show somewhere else on social media. Yeah. But he hasn't for whatever reason.

I know of the reasons. I don't know why he's going about this way. You know what else is crazy? Yeah. Jax Taylor made a plane turn around because his seat would not recline. Wait. And it caused a two and a half hour delay. Jax Taylor, like one of the worst humans in the world.

Vanderpump Jax Taylor? Yes. How did he know his seat wouldn't recline? Because you're not even supposed to do that until after takeoff. And that's period. So already he's on my shit list. Because I'm a rule follower on the airplanes. It's like, let's go.

When was this? I don't know. A flight from JFK to LAX turned back to the gate when Jax Taylor's first class seat malfunctioned. And then someone, an annoyed source, who I'm guessing is someone who is sitting near him on the airplane, says it made the plane two and a half hours late because they were already on the runway and it was raining, said a steamed source who added that buzz aboard the plane was that the reality star was having a fit over his seat, not reclining. He continues to be one of the worst humans in the world. I don't know much about him, but I've watched the early seasons of Vanderpump. We are currently watching the early seasons of Vanderpump. And it blows my mind that the Vanderpump audience allowed Jax Taylor to have an opinion on Scandival. Did he have an opinion?

He had many. He launched a podcast as a result, like many other people. Yeah. And enjoyed some success. Yeah, yeah. As someone who was very close to the situation. Right. Had mutual friends.

Yeah. And I saw a lot of commentary around like, this is Jax Taylor's like redemption, redemption to her. Like he did. Yeah. Just because so many horrific things. Yeah. But Sandoval's like comparatively, it's like the worst of two evils.

It's like he's finally getting his moment because somebody else is like fucking up more than him. I don't more. I don't even know. Just like more recently. Yeah. Well, yeah. And like, who should have matured?

Like I had a teacher the other day who was like, I teach a flexibility class because I'm criminally inflexible. So it's like who better to teach you than someone who has like started from a low point and has had to like work their way up. So I wonder if you could make that kind of argument of like Jax Taylor did ultimately mature. And it seems like they were both doing some fuck shit in the early seasons of Vanderpump. And Jax has seemingly curbed the fuck shit while Tom has escalated. No, clearly he has not. Yeah, I don't think this proves maturity. But actually, OK, but his rep said it wasn't his fault.

The seat was in the bed position and they couldn't get it upright. So it wasn't his fault. It was just like it's not, you know, when you're like take off and landing, you have to like put your seat up all the way. So that's what his rep said. i further my point why are you in the lay down position before we've taken off jacks taylor that can't be true they wouldn't have taken off if the bed was fully reclined yeah you just don't touch your seat until take off to move the plane if especially if he's in first class the flight attendants are right there so they wouldn't

have moved the plane they would have been like sir you need to fix this. And then he would try. And then he'd be like, I can't. And they'd be like, well, we're not moving then. Yeah. And in that case, maybe it's not like him being a diva. It's like they needed to fix the seat before takeoff. What a coincidence that it's Jax Taylor's seat. Totally.

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Are we doing Love is Blind, Bachelor in Paradise, or Golden Bachelor first? I think you just keep the same order we did last week. Let's start with Love is Blind. Totally. I've been binging all of these all weekend. What are your thoughts? Oh my God.

This is like the worst cast of Love is Blind, I think, ever. And by worst, you mean great TV or just worse in general? Like, I almost think it's too much to handle.

Like at some point, I was like, ugh, I kind of want to look away because it felt, there's a little bit too much like it's like last season we had one person or like one couple that I feel like was kind of like me but now it's like everybody if you had to choose who is your favorite oh my my favorite favorite couple which the bar is so low is milton and lydia and you're probably right but it's shocking right right because the bar is low also i think there's just so much other like nuance to the

show i feel like the way because it's it's very bachelor adjacent love is blind i feel like everyone kind of knows that or at least picks up on it it's like hometowns meeting the parents like the proposal like kind of like the timeline of everything the thing that saves bachelor is there's no wedding that seems a little more just yeah literally and like when we're watching these couples like there's so because i was also like down deep in reddit i was trying to like catch up and get like all the spoilers but then like the judgment is so like yes fierce online that i was like i was reading before i was watching the episodes and i'm like oh my god and then i watched and i was like i need to gather my own opinions because the public is

so hard on these people and they just aren't taking into account like that you only know each other for four weeks before getting married like that is crazy yeah i actually agree i'm glad you had that take because i actually i enjoy love is blind so much especially compared to the bachelor well i think it's like which go i'm gonna like whatever talk between golden bachelor like it's like i was so excited for the season and i feel like the first episode and the second episode it's like oh this is just like another kind of like stale format of The Bachelor which we know in and out there's not as much flexibility whereas Love is Blind like I feel like there's a little bit more like nuance there's other things that pop up there's like more drama but Bachelor is just like stale and that you know

exactly what's coming yeah they definitely have their have their beats. But I think Love is Blind, which is what results in all the toxic response, is because Love is Blind, like Bachelor tries to create characters and have story arcs, and they really oversimplify their heroes and their villains. You're usually just one or the other,

at least on a respective season. You know, you might go to paradise and have been a villain only to become the hero and vice versa, but you have to wait a whole season. You don't get that in the same season. Where Love is Blind, they're just showing regular people being messy. culture nowadays. And I think just as, you know, we just have this judgmental society that thinks that, you know, that our keyboard warriors and a lack of kind of own self-awareness on their part. And it's easy to watch these shows and spew your commentary and criticism as if you've never raised your voice or said something that you had to apologize for in a relationship right or responded in a way that was like you know maybe not my best in a high stakes high intensity environment of which all

these people are in yeah i agree there's a little more humanity in it and i totally agree like bachelor is like so produced and they like the one thing i like about love is blind is they don't necessarily pit like the women against each other like I think with bachelor seasons like especially in a bachelor and um a woman like cast you know there's so much cattiness some you know some of it is like kind of contrived whereas I feel like love is blind is a little more not like normal natural kind of like what you're saying like a little bit just watching in the wild. And there's more nuance of like, yeah, just watching the mess in relationships. I think it brings out like like dating brings out your insecurities. You know what I mean?

I think that's what we see, which is kind of easier for me with like Lydia and Milton. I can see myself in each of them. Milton is just young. I think like he has a good heart. I think he's 24, you know, so he like speaks and like kind of grand. I know everything like you should be more like me. But it's like as he ages, I think his mind will change. And specifically as he gets in more relationships, because I think you really learn from being in relationships that it's like you're not just like supposed to be with someone to all like act the same way.

It's like you're supposed to learn about that person and learn about their intentions and then grow together like they come from completely different cultural backgrounds so not that's why i think like their relationship is kind of the most like easy to root for because for me it's easier to see like why they fight and where it comes from and like i'm hoping that maybe they can get through it. The age gap is just like kind of severe, but it's like what she was left with. Like, you know,

why, why are you even casting 24 year olds? Like, sorry. But like, I think age comes with wisdom, like, and being ready to like,

you know, be in a relationship. You know what I mean? Me at 25, like, I know, I know, I saw you guys.

You gotta be quiet. I'm like, how old are you? No, no, no, yeah, no, know nothing no you guys dated for a long time women mature faster trying to dig myself out of this no it's totally fine we were we were talking about that before we started recording where you guys y'all were talking about milton's family and and suggesting that they might have been too harsh. And I didn't think so. I mean, and I said, listen, if I would have met Natalie in the pods and then three weeks later, she would have introduced me to her family. I would have expected

them to ask me some incredibly challenging questions. And I would, it would have been fair for them to question my intentions. If they knew nothing about me other than the fact that I was a lot older than Natalie. Right. And we both ended up on this social experiment. Yeah. The questions are fair. Yeah. There's reasons why stereotypes exist and things like that.

Doesn't mean that you should need to assume them. You should ask your own questions like Milton's family does. But I don't think Lydia is entitled to the benefit of the doubt. You know, she chose to date someone a bit younger than her. And if she is going to be in a relationship with this man, then it's fair for his family to ask her some qualifying questions to make sure that she's legit. And I think that's, and she can prove him wrong. Just like anyone who comes into a relationship where their other person's family is like, I don't know, there's some red flags here.

Just if only if only the red flags are kind of superficial, like things that you have having never met that person, like maybe an age gap or, you know, something about their work or, you know, where you're just like, I don't know, I have some questions. I think that's fair. I think so, too, especially with the time crunch. But also it's like, I don't know we know about milton's family and that they don't suffer fools they don't what suffer fools what does that mean oh yeah it's just like you don't suffer fools like you don't take any bs like you don't put up with like you'll call people out you're just yeah you don't roll your eyes and just say they're

just being whatever you're you'll you'll be like his sister and just say, I think this is a farce. I think it's also a little naysay, you know, a little. It's like, OK, whatever. Being on The Bachelor, bringing my family into production. Obviously, I knew they had their doubts, but overall, they knew what I was signing up for. They were like, I can't believe it's like this. I'm like, yeah, it's a TV show. And we talked about it, but I think there's a way to deliver it. I think every family has their doubts. But with Milton's family specifically,

they're not very emotional. They're very Milton is so smart. And I actually I think it kind of speaks like to me to maybe his potential for growth, like even though he speaks in like calculi terms and like compares it to like really complex math. I think that works for him in his brain. But his family is very much like when his sister was like, this is a business arrangement. It's like, OK, but a relationship can be more than that. I don't especially when you're like newly in love and young, you're not thinking about the business stuff. I think if you have kind of the same moral value and compass, you can figure

out all the big things like how are we going to raise our kids? We all know we're kind of taking a leap of faith by going on this kind of a TV show. So naturally, they're not going to cover all of that ground. So I don't think that's grounds enough to be like, okay, you shouldn't get married to this person. I think you have to play into the fantasy a little bit. And I think even that, you know, does translate into real life, too. It's like there's some you have to kind of believe in love to have it in the first place, you know, and be a little bit of a hopeless romantic in that. And I think they like the sisters a little bit naysay and kind of like cracking down

for reasons just to do it. But it's like, these aren't conversations that people would have in four weeks at all. And like, I don't think they would be having kids tomorrow. Like, I think we're just trying to get like the basics. Like, do you feel for her? Do you feel like you really like can love this person and take care of her and like want to work hard for her? And I feel like, yes, like for me watching, but I get it. I get both sides. But also it's like you have to know what you sign up for. You're going to get married in a month. You're not going to be able to like get to know this person so deeply.

And I think that's the extra layer of love is blind. That is even more difficult. And people love to judge. Yeah. But if you were in their position, like you wouldn't necessarily be thinking those things or doing it that way. And it's not really realistic. Like you have to think about it

contextually. I also think it's like everyone can say reality TV is edited and then refuse to actually acknowledge the way that like every single thing that Milton's family said that could be perceived as slightly harsh or like I think my biggest takeaway from that was like, oh, they didn't feel ultra welcoming. Like like to your point, Nick, like I think the questions they were asking are all 100 percent valid. Just the way like what I saw on the TV, it just felt like slightly more on the interrogation side than like a potential welcome to our family side. But that's the thing about editing is that every single harsh thing they said could have been followed by. Exactly. I don't mean to be hard on you or something like that.

And they can take it away like that. And people like to have such a selective consideration of editing in reality TV. And obviously it's for our own good. Like, believe me, we don't all want all that footage. That's insane. That's way too much to go through. But I think people are so quick to, especially like when they're kind of like going into judgment mode to forget about all of the times that you had said something that didn't come out quite right. Or thinking about how every single thing you've said isolated from all the contacts, everything you said before it, everything you said after, like how that might sound kind of

like it might make you sound like a dick sometimes and it doesn't mean you are and i you know it's funny that i agree with both your points because both are possible and i've i've seen both i've even my first time at hometowns like there's you sometimes there's the family member who just decides i'm gonna be the that person you know and that's what i was thinking too they love to have that family member on Bachelor. And I think on Love is Mine, they want that that take the one who like it. They make it. I had a sister decide to be that with Andy, you know, and I was just like, no one asked you to do that.

Yeah. Yeah. They take it upon themselves, which is always the case. OK, thanks. You know, which got edited out. But like they're not being genuine they are buying into the show they they kind of well they're produced as well because even on bachelor world the day before the the show shows up kind of talks the family takes them out to dinner preps them

gets in the house part of it is just like prepping them for the insanity that's there and then again depending on your family and some of them who have watched the show, some of them haven't. On the flip side, there's also the edit, right? Which to your point, it's like, she could have said two harsh things in the first 10 minutes of meeting them. And then at the end of a eight hour day of filming,

the dynamic could have been totally shifted and we could have seen none of that. So who really knows? Yeah. Which also I think is exemplified in Izzy meeting Daisy's family. They were like hard on him. And then the next time we see him like getting closer to the wedding, the family's like, we love Izzy. Yeah. It's like there's room to come around and they're always like there's going to be naturally you need to ask questions as a family in the beginning. And they're always like there's going to be naturally you need to ask questions as a family in the beginning.

But like you also have to show room for growth in that like your person and welcoming some somebody into the family because you love your child. You know, like Stacey's family loves her. They just want her to be happy. So they're going to support her in this, which I think is commonly what happens. And like we kind of saw that without seeing it with Stacey's family. On that topic, but going back to Milton, I feel like I fundamentally shifted the way I viewed him as a person when he said he's like something my mom always says is perception is reality, because I think that's such an emotionally intelligent understanding of the world. And so there's all of these kind of like things that people can say that demonstrate their character,

that demonstrate emotional intelligence, that they can edit out and like permanently change. And I think with Stacey, similarly, there was a moment, you know, when she was very comforting to Lydia at one point where it was like, oh, wow, you're very emotionally intelligent. And it's funny how they can be very like selective about when they show things, because on one point I was watching Stacey being like, wow, like what a kind, caring person who is so evolved and is able to be honest yet like still good to someone who's going through a hard time and then you see her with her family and it's giving a little bit spoiled spoil yeah well yeah but like gabby said about milton too his maturity comes out as a young

24 year old where he seems that to be the young mature person who is willing to take advice from people who have lived life yeah and interpret that and when he says to lydia and then like a calming presence like perception is reality something i've learned he communicates that and that is true but what milton seems to lack is the reality that like life's fucking hard and yes and bad things happen to well-intentioned people and life's not fair and milton seems to lack the perspective of like everything will work itself because sometimes it doesn't and he seems to like have this almost naive because he's young approach about like just tough situations where lydia's coming from a, yeah, I've been fucking through it, man. And it's not just perception. Sometimes the reality is this sucks. And he seems to lack that a little bit. Yeah. No, I agree with both of you guys. I thought that did show his emotional

maturity in a way that is really important for him, which speaks to him kind of understanding where Lydia comes from. But yeah, I think his immaturity is the way that he wants to change her and that it's not OK to be emotional, which is, you know, like I don't you can say whatever, like we're different. She's a woman. It's cultural. But also he seems very emotionally repressed. And he said that he's like emotions were a privilege i don't even quite know what that means in our family like you have to earn i guess in order to be emotional um which i don't think is very healthy and i think with his age like will come out that is something that he needs to work on and what she was upset about was uche's ass trying to drag her on national tv you bet your ass i'd be acting out, too. I'd be like, no, the fuck you're not right now.

Like, I know what you're doing and I'm going to get upset. And in that moment, I would just like, yeah, look for a partner to be calming, but also be like, I can't believe this. Like, I'm so sorry. Like, I get it. Like, he didn't understand the big perspective of things. And I guess maybe you're so in that moment, but it's like she gets it. Like, she knows

that what he's trying to do and he's trying to drag her and make her look bad in front of everyone. Not everyone just being the cast of Love is Blind being America and whoever watches it. Yeah, because that's also such a big part of emotional intelligence is like de-escalating. The worst thing you can do is say like, calm down. And I think there's so many more advanced versions of that where people are like, try to de-escalate by instantaneously kind of having like shutting them down or just being like trying to make them recontextualize everything. When so often I've found that if you just make someone feel seen, heard and understood, they are so much more easy, like on their own, they will be like, okay, I got a little crazy

just now, you know, like once they like had like are in a more safe space, because like the reason that they're fired up is because they're like, I feel crazy because nobody is validating my reality. And like I'm screaming because I want that to be the case. Imagine being in that conversation with Uche. I was screaming. I'm like, he is so disgusting. Like the way he like talks to her and what he's trying to do and like not giving the full story, which you had to like read between the lines and figure out later that he's a cheater. She wasn't stalking him, but he tried to make it look like she was crazy and just like monopolized on this narrative. It's like just another way I feel like of putting women in a box that they're like emotionally like too expressive or irresponsible.

It's like, no, you're literally making me crazy. He would drive me insane. They were not. Yeah, because even on his Instagram stories, he confirmed that they were not actually in a committed relationship. And he didn't deny the cheating. Because he still makes it worse.

Well, he didn't deny what, because the hooking up was having sex with someone else. And he claimed that that wouldn't have been cheating anyways because we weren't in a relationship and we weren't in a relationship. Again, we've covered this last week, but he talked out of both sides of his mouth. Right. And it's like, hold yourself accountable to a standard of like treating people well, not like a technical, like it's such a lawyer mentality to be like, well, there's this technical loophole in the statute that says if we are not in a committed relationship as defined by both

people saying I, you know, we are exclusive. Like, yeah, but like be a person and acknowledge like how you made someone feel when they thought you were like giving each other a chance and really taking their relationship somewhere. And then you fuck someone else. Like, even if you can also have your perspective of like, I saw it differently, but you have to at least hear where she's coming from. Yeah. And not to mention, it literally has no place on the show. It was like it all happened before. He's just bringing it up because he didn't get what he wanted out of Aaliyah I love Aaliyah and I think she was like spared I hope she knows that now but it's like it you literally didn't even have to go there you're going there just because like your ego is so big and you found a chance to bring somebody

else down we would have been fine without that storyline. It doesn't affect her and her relationship. It really didn't affect like he brought it all up. And it's all because of like the way he treated Aaliyah in the pods. Like he freaked out when she said that she cheated. And now he's trying to like, like he knows he's going to look look back so he's backtracking and he has a way that's kind of relevant because he had a relationship with this other woman that happens to be on the show but like it really doesn't serve a purpose i thought one of lydia's worst moments on the show was the way she was talking to alia about uche like agree did not

need to try to make her look bad like that was something that happened organically and granted like it was a weird situation so I'm not saying Lydia is a horrible person. Yeah. It was definitely like not a cool way to engage with that at all and

definitely like gotten Aaliyah's head and mess with their relationship but like Uche didn't need to be like gotcha like she displayed her own behavior and everybody was able to

judge that on their own. Yeah. They're all messy which is why I like this show. Yeah. None of them are without red flags so to speak but yeah to

your all's point like uchi has this kind of you know and again i i don't even mind strategic people or people you know who are like i'm a like i like to think things through like no like i look i hear the way milton talks and i'm like i i get him yeah i you know on an emotional side i feel like i've matured a little bit and I've learned how to empathize and things like that. But like Uche is this. Yeah. It's so Machiavellian the way he's like, you could tell it's just the way he sat down with

Lydia and first like gassed her up only to bring her down. It was like. Yeah. That his delivery was calculated. That was weird too. Yeah. The showing receipts is also really gross i'm trying to show milton the screenshots like yeah who the fuck really cares with alia too

and it's like just drop it yeah exactly like just drop it yeah and i'm sorry just because like you guys talk debriefed like a really crazy situation together like before bed every night don't try to equate your friendship with like their potential marriage. Because at this point, things have escalated at totally different paces. And although Uche was kind of coming from like his whole claim with talking to Milton was like, I just want to warn my friend. And in certain situations, I think that's valid. But in this one, it's like, but come on. Well, it's like it's his perception of the reality to Milton's point where like clearly Uche is looking through this lens through his own main character version of the world. Right. And when the Aaliyah and Uche conversation happened, I didn't fault like at first. I'm like, these are valid questions to ask someone you just found out was an unfaithful two years ago. But the more we learned about Uche and the fact that he was in a situationship with Lydia, most likely having sex with other people at the same time, not validating Lydia's feelings,

then breaking up with her, and then try to assassinate her character on a show while clearly not being without his own criticism, but acting like every decisions he's ever made is righteous and all these other people's decisions are somehow problematic it's like that that's whole that whole delivery yeah and it's like just stay out of it it's like at this i think there was a lot of that like this season it's like everybody and everybody else's relationship it's like they'll figure out their own shit i don't have the energy like i'm too focused on my relationship to like to like hear people coming at me and like other cooks in the kitchen. And at this point, they're already

committed to each other. So let them figure it out on their own. But I feel like there's so much like interference. Like for what? Do you guys not have enough going on? I think that's also a perfect segue to get into the Johnny, Chris, Izzy,zy stacy situation because the beginning of this episode was a really really bad look for stacy and izzy yeah like oof oof gross yeah what do you what do you make of that gabby because clearly there's drama between them it just it sure seems like it's like fine maybe johnny talks some shit in the pods or whatever but stacy is just going above it seems like again we don't know edits and things like that but she's so mean girling stacy unnecessarily where it's just like haven't we moved on yeah she comes across as a bully yeah i think this is really where we see the complexity of people's character because even watching stacy and izzy, I'm like, oh,

they have the same kind of delulu that they're like in the relationship together. So you can like almost root for them. It's like, OK, I think they actually care about each other. But the way they treat other people is terrible. But like that is maybe what bonds them and like brings them together so as a couple maybe they can make it but like do I think like they're shitty a hundred percent like I think the way they treat people I think like also it's just really hard to like make sense of because I think there's a lot of ego I think Izzy feels like not good enough for Stacey naturally. And I think he's like trying to overcompensate for a lot of it, given like the financials. There's so many conspiracies online about like who kind of like that Stacey wants a breadwinner.

Like they're both looking for sugar daddies and like blah, blah, blah. But I think they kind of have the yeah, the same. Like Izzy's also looking for it. Yeah. OK. For like a meal ticket, which like I can see, but I also think there's something genuine about them. And I don't think people are like, oh, Stacey just went on like for a meal ticket and to

like be an influencer. But I'm like, I'm like, I don't totally think so. I think, yeah, she would have wanted. First of all, I think financial incompatibility is a real thing that nobody really wants to talk about. And like. It's one real thing that nobody really wants to talk about. It's one of the three Bs, according to our therapist. The budget, the bed, and the broom. The broom being like, whose responsibility?

Which also adds to the cue of Lydia and Milton's conversation, because we've got to get to that, too. But yeah, no, it is a valid thing that people do ignore. It's just, I guess, the delivery of it all. Because afterwards, after Izzy and Stacey mean girl Johnny, they go back. Izzy's clearly drunk. He's crying in the closet. He's so drunk. Before he's crying, he tells Stacey, and I need to read this because it was just so foul and disgusting.

I saw you railing into her ass and I got so turned on. Disgusting. That is where I think like his insecurity is like, OK, because he kind of ramped up after Stacey, I feel like was like whatever. There's more tension between her and Johnny. So it's like kind of like, oh, I'm on your side. Like I'm like you, like I'm good enough for you. So like but also like why are you getting off on other people's pain yeah i feel like there's a difference between like mama bear energy and her protecting yeah like her relationship or her protecting izzy but it was just her blatantly being mean and that is what turned him on it didn't turn him on that she was like you know what like we're in our she was a bigger person none of that it was the fact that she was like this nasty mean girl to johnny yeah i completely

agree with you but just to play not even play devil's advocate but like i again i what i love about these shows is like you know empathy is just trying to see the world through someone else's eyes. Yeah. Okay. Here we go, Nick. Girl, I want to hear this one. But I have seen Natalie stand up for me. Yeah. And in a way that I've referred to her having this kind of lioness energy where I was like, damn, babe. That's my girl.

That's my girl. You know what I'm saying? And I completely, I hated the Johnny and Izzy and Stacey. Stacey seemed like her main girl. It was gross what Izzy said. We had the pleasure of interviewing Izzy, you know, last week. And we met him.

And I just, and we didn't address this because it was in this episode. But it sure seems like Stacey and Izzy feel righteous about their opinion about Johnny. Yeah. And it seems like they think she's horrible. And Izzy seems to be kind of almost under Stacey's spell of whatever Stacey thinks. Yeah. And is it possible that Izzy is speaking on how Stacey kind of defended herself and defended the situation? I don't think Izzy sees Stacey as a bully like we do. Right. Yeah, I think you're totally right. And I think it goes back to him, like,

always feeling insecure. I think even like in the pods and freshly after when they were in Mexico, this was like the first time he was with a woman with some kind of sense of herself, whether it's like good or bad, because like the way he was, they were like laughing and you could kind of see like in his eyes like it would like glimmer when when he would look at her like oh i'm with a strong woman and he was like laughing at her like clogging the toilets and like farting i'm like okay it's a little too early for that like this so too early for that but i'm like that's how much he's like you like kind of under your under her spell to your point. But also it's like leave her like I always kind of had a soft spot for Johnny.

And I think that right away I told my friends they were like, really? And I'm like, yeah, like everyone's probably going to talk a little shit. If I was her and like they do know each other's character living together in this space. So there is a reason why she was like, um, is he's going to regret that. And Johnny just already at that point just seemed like a good normal girl so like i was more inclined to believe her and now we are seeing that that's true also leave johnny the fuck alone who cares because johnny did talk shit about cc like johnny i think you can absolutely say she was like immature she didn't handle the situation well but it was like she was down bad she was down bad she was having a rough go of things and she did a bad job handling it versus

like it's so unbecoming watching someone who got the guy who is advancing in this experiment there's clearly a dynamic of like they're more stars of the show now than everybody else like there are all these power dynamics and so it's like when you are ahead like like Stacey and Izzy are, that's why I think why it rubs me the wrong way so much to see them being kind of like unkind. Yeah, I agree. And now like Johnny and Chris are happy. They're cute. Why can't we be happy for them? Who cares?

She went back for her second. We do that all the time in life. That is not a crime. And it's often usually the better option, the better choice. We get out of our own way. We're not so worried about the spark or this, you know, we can't explain the connection because there is no connection. It's not based off compatibility.

It's based off of like how much you might feel validated if they like you. And Stacey's saying to her the whole like, I know we talked about this in the episode with Izzy, but saying like, everyone thinks you're shady. And she's like, who thinks I'm shady? Like, you could ask anyone out there. And Stacey's going, no, I already have. have like i've taken a poll and i feel confident in my answer such a bully yeah which seems like just as a lie because it seems like johnny's loved yeah because when she goes back out there stacy goes back out there and she starts like

talking to the other girls about it they're like well she's my friend like i kind of like you know like i like her i don't really know what you're talking about right and like who hasn't been sketchy in love like yeah you have some groveling to do like you fucked up in the pods you picked the wrong guy like naturally you're not going to be like so forthcoming with the truth right but it's like who like where weeks pass it seems like her Johnny and Chris is in a is in a good spot like are in a good spot it seems like Izzy and Stacey should be obviously working on their relationship and not worrying about literally Johnny is so benign. Like she's not like it's like you're you're really just like like she's like pray for them.

They're like getting off on being mean to her. But it's like you picked the wrong girl. I feel. Have you seen the memes of Izzy coming out of the closet crying? No. After getting yelled at as a kid and all my siblings are staring at me and he's like crying

like slams the door shut like yeah but it's like he was also so fucked up. I'm like you need to stop talking and Stacey just like continuing to drag him in the apartment him not making any sense. I'm like girl walk away. What do we make of Stacey in that continuing to drag him in the apartment, him not making any sense. I'm like, girl, walk away. What do we make of Stacey in that conversation?

Like pulling out the, accusing him of like not doing what he- Like cooking for her. Cooking for her. It was like drawing a bath for her and rubbing her feet. It was like the, it was him saying in the pods, like these are things that I like to do for my partner. Like I love to, you know,

like draw a bath every now and then. Or like when you get home from work, I'd love to watch a movie and rub your feet. And she is holding him to that. She's like the fact that you haven't fucking rubbed my feet. She's like work my back. Yeah. But it also seems like because she was saying like I cook dinner every night. So it seems like part of it was like she felt it was unreciprocated, which is like, I don't know.

My therapist talks a lot about giving freely and about how it's a really bad idea to be giving stuff that you are giving conditionally, because it's like you can see that she wasn't just like giving freely those dinners. She was hoping that it would be very mutual, that there would be something in return. And then because there wasn't, she like got a narrative kind of in her head of like, oh, this is an unequal relationship. Like I'm doing everything. And like that's so poisonous. And once it grows, everything only further validates it where like every little thing he does wrong she's like adding to the file yeah i think that's a symptom overall of izzy's like lack of wherever he is in life like you have paper plates and you

think that's fine you're drinking out of red solo cups like you bet i would be nitpicky too i'd be like this is not what I signed up for. You weren't honest with me. And now you're not even cooking. You would. It's been confirmed. And go back and listen to Izzy episode, y'all. But that was edited.

He has plates. It was in another cabinet. She didn't look in. Well, then why didn't you say that? I think he did. And it was just edited out. It would have been a very easy solution for Izzy. Even if you can be like, oh, OK, maybe Stacey was like really like looking for stuff that kind of furthered this narrative.

It's really fucking easy to just cook someone dinner. Like that's the thing. It's like sometimes I feel like in a relationship, it's like even if I could say, no, like I'm not wrong for not doing this. If there's a simple fucking solution that like squashes the issue, like just do that. And Izzy could have done that. And obviously she's looking for a little bit more of a man and somebody who has their shit together and I think that would be an example to her of him like being of that partner that she wants I think she's floundering

because she's like there's so much going on and you know what like I kind of relate I think this goes back to the financial like compatibility it's like yeah they come from two different worlds I don't necessarily think she would like just went on to become an influencer i think she was genuinely like looking for love like did an experiment and like she was hoping that she wouldn't end up with this guy who's so sketchy about his finances like we're in our 30s have you guys seen the conspiracy on reddit i'm a conspiracy theorist that izzy's apartment is a b&b because i believe it i'm here to spread that rumor and because like all his like hobby lobby decor

suspicious like giving b&b and they're like he probably has no credit because he has no credit cards that he can't actually like be you know approved for a lease throwing it out there food for thought do what you want possible now i know izzy's kind of public i don't mean number one but i think these are all flawed people and i think as we watch it we come with our own biases yeah but like are we not going to give izzy any credit he was hammered and whether you agreed with izzy or not when stacy was saying why haven't you cooked why haven't you done x why haven't you done z whatever you could tell he was genuinely hurt by her comments yeah and genuinely thought like how could you say this i've been putting so much effort

into this relationship yeah and he was clearly triggered and drunk. And I thought he handled it incredibly well. He was calm. And the apology was amazing. Yeah. It was a really thoughtful. I don't even think he needed to apologize. He also had just gotten her flowers. Yeah.

Like they walk in the apartment and there's a bouquet of flowers. There was a flower. Every Monday was flower fucking day. Which is why I think it's bigger. I agree. I don't think Izzy's a bad person. I think you can see like the glimmer in his eye, which always gives me hope, like, the way he looks at her.

I think he's in over his head, and he didn't know. I think he went on maybe for a fun time and to see if this would further his life. I don't know if you guys have read the conspiracies about his career online. It doesn't sound like it. It doesn't sound like anyone wants to know. You love those conspiracies.acies about his career online. It doesn't sound like it is like I don't want to know. But I love those conspiracies.

But but I don't know. It's like because I feel like which I don't know if this is too much to say. I feel like I've dated guys like him who were a little in and over their head and didn't like we had the chemistry, but didn't really come with the resources. And then it floundered like in a very similar way where it's like, I knew the person wanted to be with me, but because it sounds like he has like a lot of shame around this anyway, because it's such a topic of conversation that you can't really get through and like get a plan going. I actually, well, I think what it is is I think it's not uncommon, especially nowadays, for men in their mid to late 20s not feeling like they are where they wanted to be when they were in their early 20s. And the pressure either from themselves or society that tells them they're supposed to have it figured out, they're supposed to be settled, et cetera, et cetera. Stacey being

a couple years older than Izzy yeah she's 33 more established with what she want now she has the benefit of like working for a family business which i love how she portrays is like she had to like pay her dues yeah um because her grandfather somehow struggled with money that somehow that reflects better that's why i'm like i don't think she just went on to become an influencer i think she's fine on her own i think she has a lifestyle that she wants to keep and she wants somebody else to match. story of you know men we all know mature later in life society is having us as a as a society we're all maturing later in life you know 30 years ago if you were 22 23 society had expectations of you like figuring your shit out having kids having good credit having a business starting a family now it's like oh you're only 23 you know like fuck around and have some fun act like you're like

which i can say same like i've learned so much about finances I've got as I've gotten older and I think there is different conversations to be had it's like if they really want to be together and they have like a genuine connection good chemistry keep your finances separate you know like I feel like that's like easy but clearly Stacy is putting a lot of pressure on him financially which I think that's where like the incompatibility comes and then he's feeling the pressure I feel like he's feeling a lot of pressure on him financially, which I think that's where like the incompatibility comes. And then he's feeling the pressure. I feel like he's feeling a lot of pressure from her in multiple different ways, which makes him become kind of defensive and feeling a little sketchy and finding this validation like elsewhere by doubling down on Johnny being like, see, look, I'm good for you. Like I swear. But she's kind of like putting him in that position. It's like,

yeah, we've all like I don't think you go on TV expecting your finances to be outed either. Like it's a very personal topic, but it is a topic you have to be ready to talk about when it comes to marriage. And he picked the wrong girl to not talk about finances with. Right. Because it's clear for her that's a big way that she wants to feel taken care of financially. And like that's why I think when it comes back to like, you know, like, how can you be a feminist and let someone like a man pay for you on the first date? It's like, because that's a form of someone being like, I want to like show a form of care that is like appropriate and proportionate to the amount that we know each other. And it's like just like a traditional act of kindness. And like, yeah, it shouldn't be an

expectation. It should be something that both people can do. But ultimately, like, I think there is this fine line of money where it's so easy to just be like all or nothing, like either it's like ultra superficial or it's like everything about your value. And I think it's somewhere in the middle of it is something where you want to be able to have a relationship that can endure hard times financially or whatever else you want it to be built on more. That being said, it is also like, you know, the whole quote of people don't fight about money, they fight about values. And so it's like the way that someone has tried to like, like set up their financial future and therefore is able to provide a financial future for them,

their partner, their family is also a relevant data point. Right. Yeah. Yes, exactly. And I think it's like how like what you want from the relationship. Like it seems like she does really want to be taken care of. Like it doesn't sound like she wants to keep her finances separate. Like I'm all down for like separate finances. It's like if we can both like if we both have like the way we live and like, of course, I want to give and like have experiences together. But like we don't necessarily need to be on the same page about how much we make. But when she said the thing about the furnace, like if my furnace breaks, are you going to be able to split it? I'm like oh i

didn't buy this house twenty thousand dollars yeah it's like you did this one before we met and two like this is your thing like why would i be responsible for the twenty thousand dollar furnace because like i'm like why does it keep going out yeah like and it sounds like the house she bought is like kind of like a money pit yeah so. So I'm like, this isn't something I want to be a part of. But like, again, it's just like the not talking about the compatibility thing. And one other thing that kind of triggered me was when like they were talking about the paper plates and cups and stuff. And he was like, well, you're superficial.

It's like I've been like, I think that's like he's looking for an excuse to defend himself by doing this big overbroad while you're looking at the wrong thing. Because I've been told that when I've asked about like we're dating for a while. How's your job in your car? Because they're non-existent. And then I was accused of being superficial. It's like, no, like I'm an I'm an adult. I want like I have a job in a car and I'd like you to like what's our plan to figure that out?

It wasn't like this is make or break, but we should be able to talk about it. Yeah. You know, it also kind of just speaks to how people communicate because. Yeah. And like the Stacey and Izzy situation, he's probably being triggered. And what he's probably hearing is you're a loser. Exactly. And so he hears I'm a loser or you're not a man. Not only are you a loser, you're not a man because you can't provide for our family. So he's fighting back by saying, well, whatever you're superficial. You're a princess.

Yeah. And I think it just speaks to like, again, how people communicate and how important that is. Now that being said, who do you think Milton and Lydia or Stacy and Izzy are going to end up together? Which one? I know because it feels like there's only one in the previews. To me, it looks like Stacey's building a case to leave Izzy at the altar.

That's what a lot of people say. I don't know if I can get behind it. Especially with the credit card stuff. Yeah. Like, they went on their date. It was stupid. They got into an airplane. Like, oh, fucking K.

date it was stupid he got they got into an airplane like oh fucking k yeah like i'm gonna i'm gonna have a show pay for a plane so i can make stacy feel like she's being treated well i'm like i don't think this is the type of plan that she's not buying it yeah and she's also not going to mykonos and then she's like yeah i think around the city it's like turbulence. No. Yeah. And then it fast forwards to them packing their bags, I guess, at their apartment. And there's a fight about, I guess, he finally admits to having bad credit or something of the sorts and says he doesn't. He does not have a credit card because he has bad credit, I guess. Which is valid, potentially. And I hear where stacy's coming

from how bad because you right and his excuse isn't really adding up like 3500 of debt in college like the math ain't math and i think also stacy's big concern was like i think this should have come up i think when i said why don't you have a credit card when you were like pumping gas you should have disclosed this and i see izzy's point of like i wanted this to be a larger conversation i'm sure it's something he's really self-conscious and embarrassed about and he wanted like to be able to provide a little bit more context and be like you know yes this is the case i've also saved in xyz kind of ways but i hear where stacy's coming from where it's like very disconcerting to find to have like a landmine go off that you had no idea was there like a day before the wedding right and when you

thought you'd already walked on that part of the land and then there's still a mind there i can definitely see both sides right there's like limited time and so you definitely want to be able to sit down and have this type of conversation you don't just kind of throw it out there on the flip side the day before the wedding it's like why haven't you taken the time to find the time to tell me like why haven't you gone out of your way to make the time rather than to say i haven't found the time yeah and so i i see both sides yeah their whole beginning of the relationship seemed a little a little bit like too like like fun like oh we're playing games and we're like they're really into each other sexually and it seems like that's like where the

whole conversation was lying it's like okay but what's underneath especially if we're gonna get married in this short amount of time like I think that was a little bit of like uh-huh you know but yeah I don't but Stacey also seems like she's committed and she's gonna do what she wants to do and I feel like this she's like almost like goal oriented I feel like Izzy is like pretty emotional. You can like read him. And I think Stacey is a little more distant from her emotion. So I think that she would be the one to say yes at the altar because like this is what she came here to do. She wants to go through with it and she can figure out like the rest later. And I think like the Milton Lydia, it kind of reminds me last season of the really kind of nerdy hot guy

with the blonde Micah and Cole yes Micah and he's the one who got accused of like oh sorry I didn't know that butt slap thing was a little I stand by it was nothing

but we're not going to react to it I don't think it was nothing but it was nothing okay but we're not gonna react i'm like yikes but um yeah i don't think it was nothing but i saw the video and i'm like and now they're like dating right or they were he was like started to date that girl or they did i don't know okay now i'm spreading rumors i don't know you guys i don't i'm so full of shit so just like like that's my baseline so take everything i say with a grain of salt but um but yeah i think it'll be like when i was kind of buying their whole relationship they like made their rings together i felt like they would go through but he's a little more cerebral and shut up and was like actually i don't think this is like the right path for me i can see milton doing

that i can see him kind of being like okay like, like I'm young. I hear what everyone's saying. I'm a little more analytical and less emotional. So I actually do think I'm going to take a beat. I feel like we could talk about Love is Blind forever, but we want to maybe hit Golden Bachelor. Well, all you people out there who like going out, enjoying life, having a few drinks, but maybe have suffered the consequences the next day, you got to check out Waterboy or maybe you just want to like up your general hydration. Inside each stick, there's ginger for nausea. So especially if you're having a rough time in the tummy, that's super helpful. They also include L-phthalene to help calm your nerves and reduce some anxiety. Their scientifically backed formula truly brings you back from the dead. Also, Waterboy is great for people, even if you

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See terms for details. All right, Golden Bachelor. They couldn't trade out the bunk beds. Oh, God. I think that's terrible. We couldn't give these ladies. Let's talk about these. Because Natasha makes a great point about the chairs at the rose ceremonies, the bunk beds.

How many stairs are there in the bachelor mansion? I got questions. Yeah, I know. There are not that many stairs. There's like a stairwell. But I was curious before they showed. I'm like, are they going to have the same shitty bunk beds? They did seem to gloss them up a little bit.

Yeah. They got some new comforters. Yeah. They seem like they elevated it a little bit, but they're also like, spoiler alert, the Bachelor Mansion is not a mansion. It's a pretty big house-ish. Yeah. And there's lots of rooms that you can't use.

Yeah. So there's not a ton of room. And I don't know how many women um do they cast i think there's 14 now so 14 moving the house it would be tough to i feel like it's just respectful to like treat your elders better than bunk beds and like grown women it's like oh you guys can't afford just for them to go to hotel rooms like i was kind of surprised in the production schedule. Like it seems a little lighter now, but the rose ceremony looked like it still ended in the morning. I'm like these poor women.

And it's like, and it's not to say like to be like overly like delicate. Cause I feel like part of the like joy of this season is being like, yeah, like we don't need to like kind of pedestalize old people as these like fragile, like obviously it's like all of these, like so many of these women in Gary are like super active.

Like they are still like living life and thriving. But there's certain things where it's just like, could you not have been a little bit nicer? I know it feels like a little. To have embraced it though. That's the thing is they kind of enjoy it. So like I'm a little like conflicted. It's like maybe we maybe we're too protective. Yeah.

Of them. And in terms of like, I feel like The Bachelor used to be this big thing of like, I'm not here to make friends when it's like, you literally are like, but The Bachelor is like a love story about friendships, like the lifelong friendships that have formed from The Bachelor. And so in addition to it being so beautiful that like two people are going to get this like late in life, later in life love story. I also think it is amazing that all of these older women are connecting and like forming this amazing girl gang oh same i love it and i feel like at that age like i feel like there's a couple things i'm taking away with just like the premise of the show and one is being like the way these women age is admirable like i

don't know if i've ever seen a show that makes me excited to age like i feel like they're so spunky they've like reinvented themselves time and time again they have so much like zest and joy for life that i'm like if this is my 70s i am down but also i don't know if it's like also creating like an unrealistic expectation because like those 70 year olds don't exist everywhere they found the best looking ones in our country yeah so like i'm also like not like maybe like a touch worried about like the like the beauty standard i think it's one of those things where you know it's just maybe they just found people well one maybe you know at that stage in life there's a little bit of luck involved when it comes to like your genetics and dna and things like that so they sounds like the people there

have been blessed with but that's also the way they cast it yeah and then like that. So it sounds like the people there have been blessed with... But that's also the way they cast it. Yeah. And then, listen, when you get to that stage in life, as I talked about earlier in this episode, how we take care of ourself now pays dividends in the future. Yeah, get your shit together, Nick. Put on your fucking sunscreen, folks. But no, because these are people who probably have had a bit of luck, but also have taken care of themselves.

And rather than maybe setting unrealistic standards, maybe it just shows that, like, you know, getting old doesn't have to be. Yeah, getting old. You know, where you are unable to have fun, get out, look your best, feel your best, et cetera, et cetera. Like, I think it shows the potential of what aging can be. Yeah. You know, when we think so much about what it is, you know, so. Yeah, no, I agree.

I think it's like, yeah, these, I think it's like just at like 70, that's not just like getting old, you know? And they like, these seven-year-olds look so fucking good. Like they pass for like 40s. Like, I think those are outliers. Like I'm sorry, Edith?

With her gold gown on anyway? Yes. And so many of them are like stunning. She's like the silver fox kind of. Oh, she's dropped dead. Oh my God. A vision. Yes, there she is.

And she has like a tiny little waist. Is she the one who was also in the 80s outfit that had the little handkerchief around her neck and she looked all cute and spunky? I don't know, but you liked her. Yeah.

You really remembered that one, Nick. Yeah, she looked, whoever, I think that was her. She looked fantastic. Nick was sobbing the entire episode.

First 30 minutes. Oh, yeah. He was very much giving, like, he wanted to record himself every time he started crying, but it was, like, not enough to see

in the camera. Yeah, so he was, like, really trying to, like, get into his crying but it was like not enough to see in the camera yeah so he was like really trying to like get into his eye i was trying not to cry i wasn't like i was like oh my god gary got me again um and it was one of those things where i was holding it back and i'm like oh my god this show is wonderfully yeah like just sentimental and so yeah i was trying to just capture like my my love for the sentiment of of the show. It's just like every moment they have where on The Bachelor, Bachelorette of Paradise, it might be cringe or obnoxious or someone might come across as being performative or all of the above. It's also so beautifully genuine. It's so wonderful. Even the flash dance got me crying because it was such a moment of like Gary and who

is his lovely date? Teresa. Teresa. And we're like, you know what? Don't stop believing. And they're just so earnest about it. And I'm just like everyone on this show, you know, regardless of how they've taken care of themselves or whatever, they clearly have all experienced life in tragedy on some level.

Yes. And which I think makes it more genuine to like see the connections and watch them just like as somebody on TV. It's like, OK, they've been through it. So I feel like they don't have as much like and it's like they're probably not on social media.

Like they don't have as much like I feel like ego and stuff to portray. Like they just are themselves. I think our society, especially recently, is rather cruel to old people. There's a lot of like, shut the fuck up. You're old. You don't know what you're talking about type of energy out there when we talk about our elders at times. Or like, ooh, you're old. That's cringe.

Don't do X, Y. You don't think so? I just said hate that. Yeah, no, but there is a lot of that sentiment. If we don't like what someone who's older than us like says something we just say you know you're out of touch you're old whatever or like if we see people who are older like taking i don't know having more adventure or risk where we can be critical of that at times and what i loved about that whole flash dance moment was like it's like the permission for these people to be goofy to to have fun, to like, to be chuggy. Yeah. To be told,

you know, to not feel like they're supposed to act a certain way. Like they're the patriarchs or matriarchs of their family. And they're like, you know, they're responsible for everyone else. Like I'm seeing a bunch of people, all these women and Gary, just like having a fucking ball.

I agree. And I feel like they're more honest. Like maybe cause they, well, I bet a bunch of them have seen the show before, but like I loved the house tour and like all of the interviews

were cut to like, why the fuck are we on bunk beds? And it's like, yeah, well actually as like a grown woman, I had the same thought, but that would never make the interview. But it's like kind of like, okay, I just feel like their commentary

and take something are like a little more like tangible and real. I feel like their commentary and take something are like a little more like tangible and real I feel like in that way like they're more in touch I don't know if this is like the first this is the first tv show I've seen with like this age range and like watching it for the first time yeah I feel like it debunks everything I'm like no actually I think you have more appreciation for life the older you get and and like the more you go through because these women are I think I think the cast is so incredible I think the women are stealing the show and just like show you how like amazing age looks like

that's what I'm taking away like I'm constantly blown away by them like by how their authenticity how true they are to themselves like what their conversations what away by them like by how their authenticity how true they are to themselves like what their conversations what they're talking about like how they carry themselves I feel like they're easier to make friends like because they don't have as much of like the cattiness and as a woman myself I'm like oh fuck yeah like I feel empowered I already can't wait until 40 because I feel like my 30s have been so good but now it's like oh let's get to 70. And I've been complaining specifically when it comes to the show's casting of bachelors in terms of a show this this this franchise has

love for the most part and with some exceptions casting men who have zero to none dating experience and and they love to see a bachelor like go through that experience on their show which is like which i i don't maybe that was popular 20 years ago when the show first started, but the audience doesn't seem to have enjoyed their most recent bachelor. There's a lot of criticism, some not always fair, but I think what Gary does so good, and again, maybe it's just a reflection of his age and the life he's lived, is that he's so good at listening and empathizing with these women and relating to them and that is something you have not seen from many bachelors recently

there will be like moments i mean shit fuck you had that on your season you know where it was like you told a story and eric at the time like his was this like oh yeah that sucks you know where there was a lot of uh what's his name uh the most recent bachelor zach zach seemed like he didn't know how to empathize at all with any of these women yeah when greer was like oh i totally get where you're coming from like i sometimes don't really stress about work he was like love is not work yeah it was like he was so defensive and again maybe there's an edit there i don't know but like gary is always just listening and just like it's always that class that must be empathize and then maybe try to relate without making it totally about you. Yes.

It's an art. And Gary is like so good. So good at it. So if that's all he does, that's all. It's all he really needs to do. I kind of want to see a shower scene with Gary. Yeah, I'm here for it. Like they do a whole batch.

You know, like you talked about how you got one and you were butt naked and the guy was like on his knees or something yeah it got real weird well time to add more to that story because just that story alone sounds off the guy that's true but the cameraman was on his knees is really a tough detail. That's true, but the cameraman was on his knees filming me. And I was really uncomfortable. I was super uncomfortable and I made calls. But I would love to see a Gary shower scene.

Yeah, he's in such good shape. Hot. Yeah. Take it out. The driving scene with the headlights being off, so endearing. Oh, my God. I was like- Her touching his shoulder and he was like, thank you so much for touching my shoulder.

But I'm like, is this safe? I'm like so worried about their safety. Why didn't they pull over? They looked so scared. They were driving on the shoulder, I think. It was scary. It was, yeah. They did look terrified.

And I was like, I've seen some horrendous people like in their what are like the dodge you know the dodge cars like in la there's some crazy like muscle cars night vision is one of the first things to go when you get older literally i was thinking about that i'm like oh is this like safe for them but it was so cute how they cared for each other in real time and like she knew that he was struggling and like, it was so endearing. She's incredible. Yeah.

It was so, so wonderful. And this, his, his enthusiasm for her caring for him. I don't think I've ever seen a bachelor on this show point out his gratitude for being cared for by one of the women on this season. I don't think I've ever seen it.

We can, when we get to Paradise, though, we can talk about Will, because he did. And it clearly makes such an impact in this environment to have moments of like genuine care and connection. And like, there's just this real authenticity. Will there be a Golden Bachelorette? Right. I wonder. I feel like there has to be.

I am curious to see how the rest of the season goes, because like I said earlier, I was so excited for the first episode. And then watching the second one, I was like, oh, I was hoping for something a little bit newer, like a little bit more different. episode felt so refreshing and something like we've never seen just like meeting the cast but now it's like just going into the same like one-on-ones like all kind of like same discussion i want there to be something a little more but to be fair i feel like they have a duty to do a golden bachelorette and i feel like she would slay based off this cast i just don't know and i've heard this from people from the franchise. I think there's a concern about their ability to find... Enough men.

Enough men willing. I think older men can get set in their ways and more closed off and might be more resistant to coming on a show like The Bachelor. Not looking for a new opportunity. Aren't familiar with the show, haven't been fans of it. opportunity. Aren't familiar with the show. Haven't been fans of it.

You know, I just, it's, I think it's a much bigger casting struggle to find the same quality. Like these women are exceptional. Oh, incredible. And to find their equivalent might be just, it's a tougher task.

I think at the same time, it's fucking ABC Disney. Get the fuck on it. Yeah. You have all the resources in the world. Is it going to be tougher? Sure. But we need it.

We want it. We deserve it. And especially with nursing homes, there's a lot of retirement communities. There's concentrated groups of people within this demographic who live there. So you could do a very targeted casting mission. You're really using your resources. You're like, I know just where to go. So you could do a very targeted casting mission.

You're really using your resources. You're like, I know just where to go. And with the success of the show, you would think that you should get more submissions. Yeah, I'm curious where they found all these women. But I bet family members submitted them and were kind of new and stuff because these women are just so incredible. I'm like, ugh.

I do really wish they would have changed the group date. I feel like that was so just typical Bachelor I mean it was literally a replica of my date on my season with the same photographer they've done that over and over again which I will say to Gary's credit is an exhausting fucking date like I was so tired

so many outfit changes he I think maybe had a few less but like yeah it must be fucking exhausting yeah I'd like something kind of newer. What do you think he, when Leslie told him that he has two hearing aids. Do you think he said something a little spicy? Do you think he was like, I'm going to eat that pussy. You're like, Gary.

Gary. Gary. Get out of there. I was thinking the opposite. He like didn't say anything at all. He was just like, He just lips turned in her ear and said nothing. He's like, wait till you see my 401k.

And she's like, oh. Oh, yeah. I know that was so sweet. I thought he got freaky. Yeah, I know he probably did. But maybe unpopular opinion. I don't think he like reeks of sex appeal

because I'm not like his like age range he took a bite of that cupcake and then asked Teresa to like clean up his face with her mouth I know it was like I don't know I don't I don't know I know he's taking risks

I will say that I will say it but am I totally buying it I don't know he's in the restaurant biz he's taking risks I will say that but am I totally buying it I don't know he's told some dirty jokes in his days he's worked in the restaurant business see I don't feel like he has that big of an edge though I can see it from the women who are very sexy

into their kind of whatever they know what they got but Jerry just seems like a really sweet uncle to me. Like I'm not totally buying like the sex appeal yet, but that's OK. I know it's probably unpopular opinion and that's probably not like what people at this age are looking for. Like he's so sensitive and compassionate, which I think is really sweet. But like I like I like i'm just always looking for

an edge rob mills said in an interview that fantasy suites do happen and that america will be talking about it and i mean granted it is job to obviously tease and yeah but i kind of this this quote felt a little different where it's just like it's like oh just you wait well i feel like it's also like a second chance like imagine like people already go ham just having this opportunity as the lead in bachelor nation so imagine being this age being like this is i literally have a new lease on life like nobody gets to get away with this and here i am at this age with these incredible women i really hope that they use the fantasy suite to talk about like the real life struggle or. Yeah.

Of getting older and and the insecurities and stresses and desires around still being intimate and having sex like that. Oh, you're very curious. Incredible. He's almost there. Sorry, I laughed a little too hard but no I think it'll be fascinating I do think it's a fair point that like I kind of have wondered

when do old people stop fucking if they stop and it's the kind of thing where it feels really rude to ask and it feels really condescending and shit and like so it's not something that I would ever really voice on a podcast, apparently. But I do think there is something to be said for like, there's a lot of like, we don't really talk about it. So let's break the mystique a little.

I know that my mother is in her mid 60s and I know that her boyfriend is in his 70s. And she has answered my FaceTime call thinking it was a phone call while in bed. Mama! And I was like, get off of the phone! and she has answered my FaceTime call thinking it was a phone call while in bed. Mama. And I was like, get off of the phone. That's our girl, though. We're trying to get Natalie's mom on the going back. She would dominate the show. She'd be so good.

Oh, my God. Get her on. Crying. Yeah, it is interesting. Like, when does your libido drop? And is there any supplementation involved? I would be quick to take Viagra. I'll say it.

Babe. Yeah. I'll be like, tomorrow. Keep five in my pocket just in case. Gary's birthday party. That was sweet. It was all sweet. You hated it.

Did I miss it? What was going on? Susan was in the cake oh yes oh yeah that kind of like blurred over that was really sweet i feel like it like must be a cheaper i feel like the date team is working overtime like i feel like the dates have been like pretty good like the birthday party like the diner very rare we see like in restaurant dates which i loved we did a couple in my season so I'd like to say I started it um because we ran out of like places to go it was like the end of COVID so we had to like like

Eric and I had our hometown in a bar and it felt really like real and intimate um so I like I dug that and I feel like just overall the season like must be cheaper to produce me thinking about finances and like but um and i think it's terrible well right but like they i don't know they must have a contract with that frank guy for that goes on to infinity and beyond like those are the photos my dad takes like when i ask him to take a nice photo they're like poorly lit yeah yeah no i know and yeah he's been wearing like this like love you frank but he's been wearing like the same outfit like every time. It's like,

well, like let's get something new or new. I also think it's just, they are older. Time is, they don't need to do these excursions. I mean, it sounds like they preview,

they do take a hot air balloon ride next episode. So there is that, but well, I kind of like, it's a little more intimate. Like I like how the group date, he got quality time with everybody one-on-one. Cause I like that's what it's about and i felt like the cocktail party before the rose ceremony started at like 10 a.m which i'm also here for it seems like there's just a lot of

like quality like instead of focusing on the extravagant dates there's more connection i will say a lot of these women who have so unfortunately lost their husbands, a lot of them are saying their husbands were like, I want you to find someone. I want you. I know. I'm sorry. But like. That's what I told Robbie. I was like, I will never say that.

That's exactly what I told him. Yeah. I'm like, don't get your hopes up. If I go before you. Yeah. I will be the last. The last. I will see you here.

Yeah. Oh, we don't know baby and you can well what's funny is all the women have been saying that their husband said that but gary never said that his wife said that so maybe that's just a male yeah and who is the lovely lady who put on the wedding dress she took my heart away oh my god God. Beautiful. Just, Oh my God. What a moment. And just her talking about, I was sobbing. She's like, it was the best day of my life, Miriam. My heart was breaking. Oh my God. It was so sweet. Yeah. I do wonder like how that would influence dating. Cause it's not like, like we've all had previous loves, which I think there is something to be said, like experience in dating

because then I think you're more used to the ups and downs you know that you can get through things like um it doesn't have to be like all good all the time like you understand the challenges so I feel like that would make you a better partner but also if you felt like you've had your one true love and like there's no breakup they right do you constantly miss them do you have like another place in your heart for somebody like i don't know which way it is well maybe that's why like gary finding someone who's who's also experienced lost and they there won't be the pressure of feeling like you're like second fiddle like it's right you just kind of know that this is this is not to be compared.

It's just new and they're there for each other. And I think, it's almost like the car ride with the light, the headlight situation.

You know, I think when we're younger and we're dating, there's a lot of like, are we the most in love couple ever? Yeah, I feel like that.

We have to be, right? Yeah. Like, and we, and I think when you get old, there's less, you're not worried

about that bullshit. Yeah, I'm like like your ego drives less of your decisions and and i think that ride that car ride was again a a great example of just how like what relationships for gary you know people in a later stage of life where it's just i'm just here to take care of you and you're here to take me and we're there for each other because we've experienced loss. We don't have the same friends or people in our lives, some of which have passed away. And there is just like, let's just take care of each other because no one else is taking care of us. I think it brings them closer to understand that too about one another because it's like, what a rare experience. I can barely talk about it without getting choked up.

I can like barely talk about it without getting choked up. So I think it would be one of like the hardest things ever to go through, especially if you're like kind of younger. No, you have a long life to live like without them. But and it's like kind of question is like, is there multiple like do you have different kinds of love? Can you have more than one true love? I mean, what a luck like to be lucky to have like almost be in love that much twice I guess but yeah I like whatever being in my relationship right now I'm like I would I can't even imagine like her like being sick or like I'm like like you know so scary that you know you would like maybe get through it and like yeah so much of our health is based on connection and living older. So like naturally you would maybe want to find something. But it's just like, you know, as young people dating, we don't really know. And they're like, we have a lot of fun together. And it's like when you're at an earlier stage of life, it's like you're trying to build a life together. Usually like whether you want to aspire to have a family or like some kind of financial security, a career. And then it's almost like when you kind of circle back and then you're like older, it's like the most important thing is having fun together and like keeping each other good company. Yeah. Yeah.

It's a beautiful show. I think maybe the Bachelor franchise found their their lifeline. Yeah. Because they needed one. Yeah, they did. Yeah. Yeah. Because they needed one. Yeah, they did. Yeah. Yeah, they brought it out at the right time. Which brings us to Bachelor in Paradise.

How, you know, it's like, you know, they have their story, you know, they have their love triangle. It's so hard to watch after Golden Bachelor. It is essential to not watch same time. Which we've been doing. You just can't do it. We've been like following to like transition yeah

it's all the things that the Golden Bachelor is Paradise is not is not I'm really glad you're here Gabby because my biggest

takeaway of watching this episode was I feel like they're doing Rachel dirty again oh yeah we had the pleasure

of interviewing Rachel here, and she was very open and honest about like the struggle that was to be like to share the stage as two bachelorettes. It's been well documented how you two were pitted against each other. Yeah. I couldn't imagine having been the bachelor with Ben Higgins. Yeah. And like what that would feel like constantly. Right. You know, and the criticisms and the commentary and et cetera, et cetera. and so here you have rachel going down to paradise i'm sure it was a heavy sell on the part of production to convince her to go i'm sure they made her a lot of promises etc etc and like she is the bachelorette

like she is the star of this franchise not to mention like no offense to the other people on that beach i don't know fucking any of them You know, and the major storylines are people who, like, had an episode or two on their respective seasons. And, like, I'm glad they're here and they're becoming stars. But, like, I didn't come in giving a shit about them. I very much gave a shit about Rachel. Oh, yeah. And then it's episode fucking two.

And, like, listen, Hannah Brown, she is a star. Yeah. Great. She was down to stir up the mess. But they made a whole, they took 20 minutes. Respect our time. That was some fucking bullshit. Meanwhile, we have all seen the engagement photos on our Instagram.

We all know what's happening. Why did they waste so much time like that? I fast forwarded through all of that. It was the dumbest fucking shit. And they don't need it. They didn't need the contrived drama. There was already so much going on on the beach for day two

and all they want to do and I get why they Hannah's not the first lead they've cast and come down to give advice or a day card yada yada

they're having more come you know and Katie makes an appearance etc and they do that for like the tease because like for the people

who aren't following Instagram or paying attention to Hannah Brown's life or Katie's life etc etc like the little preview of like could they be coming? Could they not be coming?

Yeah. It didn't work out the way they thought. The people watching it. It's just like you took 20 minutes to make the whole episode about Hannah Brown. And again, I get it. She's a huge star. And I hope Hannah made a fucking lot of money for them to do that because like they just basically used her to promote their show.

But like in the meantime, they rachel through like what must have been like a shitty feeling to like really again i'm i just came here and you brought in hannah brown if i can steal my thunder and spend what must have been hours having hannah pull all these guys and make it seem like she may or may not be dating right was this kind of like when i did it again to rachel right yeah yeah and i didn't like it could have been the edit, but unlike the bonfire, when the guy Rachel's with Sean, when he got the first hard hitting question, are you into anyone else on the beach? I'm like, just don't ask Rachel first.

Like, don't ask Rachel's guy that first. Like, I know she asked it to a lot of other people, which kind of made it better. But I'm like, oh, like oh damn like they're really going in early on our poor girl Rach she's been through so much like just like leave her alone leave Rachel alone literally give her the attention

you gave Hannah yeah Hannah got more screen time and more love and adoration she got an actual entrance Rachel was the first one there. Right. And this is nothing. Hannah deserves all that.

Great. Wonderful. But like she is she's not on this season. She's literally were there to help promote. And they made it like do that for Rachel. Yeah. No, literally, because it was the way it was done was her coming in unexpectedly, her getting to pull all of these guys while they were already there like that it

allowed it to be a lot of build up around it when rachel didn't even get the opportunity so i i understand both sides i don't know if they like totally like thought it through but the way it came off is that like oh we're shitting on rachel again i will i think she's doing great i think she looks great i feel like she's like feels so like like chill. I wanted to move on from Sean. Yeah, same. I was kind of glad they asked and then cut to their conversation. She's like, yeah, you see other people.

I see other people. I'm like, that's my girl. I don't love Sean for her. Yeah, no, he's just not doing it for me. Will seems like he's crying in every scene. Yeah. On the verge of tears in almost every scene. I loved his chiron sad boy

i'm like yeah he's so sad but then he moves on so fast and he's sobbing yeah arms yeah i kind of loved that though because if we're going to talk about men needing to be more emotional we can't shame them when they do it you know and i think mercedes was doing some like grade a back rubbing like i think she was doing the nails. Like she was being really soothing and kind. And I do think there's something where like when you feel that cared for, like you melt. And I think it's beautiful that Will was able to show that. And Mercedes responded so well being like, I love that you are willing to say this.

Like men don't, not many men get emotional like this and I really value it. Yeah, I will say that was like, I know everyone's like so in deep. I'm like, oh my God, this is like day one and two at the beach but like him kind of going through the same thing I feel like normally that narrative is like for a woman like kind of getting played and stuff when it's like well like he initiated the plane with Olivia but it's like yeah watching him get so invested so quick is like I don't, kind of validating because nobody escapes it. We're all victim to it. It's not a character flaw. It's like what we do in dating. And you can also move on that fast. What do we think about Kylie? Because, you know, again, there's an edit,

so we don't know how things actually play out. But this doesn't seem very edited. She comes across as not a girl's girl. And she comes across as someone you shouldn't trust with your boyfriend. Because, and again, maybe I'm wrong, but this is how they aired it the first two episodes. Is they aired it where Avon's not there. Kylie comes in. She's already talking about Avon, yada, yada. Will gets a little bit of attention from Olivia. And then they make it seem like Kylie is immediately into Will. And again, maybe there's some editing there, but either way, she could have asked anyone else out on the beach, not the person she knew had already made a connection with what seemed to be the only other connection on the beach. And as someone who had a number one, someone who clearly had been talking to Avon offline, clearly Avon and Kylie, they were well-intentioned to date each

other when they were on the beach together. And then she goes out with Will and just doesn't talk to Olivia and then just drops Will like a bad habit. I mean, I don't know how else, like where's the edit if like how could she blame the edit i guess is my question when inevitably she does when people criticize her for her perceived actions i don't think it's the edit i think i think there's two sides naturally a lot of people were interested in her so she kind of naturally had the power and you're not like i think when you go into the situation you're like i So she kind of naturally had the power. And you're not like, I think when you go into the situation, you're like, I'm here kind of define like the one for me. I can't really

like tread lightly on other people's feelings. Like we're all here for the same reason at the end of the day. And then I feel like there's the pressure of the bubble. You feel like every day is your last. It's like, it's like, I don't know if Ava's ever going to come down to the beach. I, you know, because I'm on this show, no phones, I'm in the bubble. I really do like, I feel like I do have feelings for Will right now in this moment. He was the only guy I kind of had a conversation, a connection with. So naturally he would be the one that I would pick hoping that Ava would come down. Okay. I didn't know. Okay. He's here. Oh, this, my plan did plan out, but there was a chance of it not going like that. I think that could have been her mindset. Do I feel like she

owed Olivia a little more like, yeah. And you don't know, like the ins and outs of their friendship or yeah, what was edited or like what, you know, is truly going on in that world. But it's like, do you have to be selfish on the beach like yeah it's the one thing i think people in paradise make the mistake of is it's not the bachelor it's not the bachelorette this is not your chance to be one of the two yeah and you don't get options you know people go down to paradise being like you know it's early i just want to explore my op if you say the word options in paradise you're fucked yeah you need to dive in to a relationship you need to commit to it you need to see it through you don't get to play the field and if you do you're just going to come across as self-centered yeah i kind of agree i feel like like other shows

adjacent like love island has more room for that and maybe because like the tone is a little different. It's a little lighter. I do also feel like IRL, the more you put into a relationship, the more you get out. I think that is like paradise's downfall is the kind of commotion around social media before and coming down for somebody in particular because you don't let connections happen naturally and then you have all this drama about it like oh I'm waiting when it's like oh if you like somebody you might as well go all in on them because that's how relationships work that's how you become the most successful like that's how you really get to know somebody until like maybe like you get the chance you're broken up with to like see somebody else i think like normally men are like playing the field and like this time kylie is it's the fact that she got the day card and asked will out that's such a but you can't i know but you can't control that because avian wasn't there what was she supposed to do pick someone she didn't like

because you can it's very normal to have a like to have two people into one person so it's either picking will who she like did feel a connection with on her options at the time or pick somebody that she didn't like that was maybe not gonna go anywhere i i don't know because i wasn't there but i was in a very similar position as kylie literally i was first on the beach i got asked on a date and i got a date card on the same day. I had to go on two dates on the same day. And the person that I would talk to and was totally planning on dating wasn't there. I knew they weren't going to be there. Yeah. And I just wasn't going to be called a liar and I wasn't going to be accused of leading anyone on. So every time I'd go on a date, I'm

like, just so you know, I'll ask you to date, but I'm waiting for so-and-so. Yeah. And I just want to be upfront with my feelings. And they aired me me telling I think it was a woman named Leah at the time who I asked out I'm like hey just you know I'm gonna give this to so-and-so I was so transparent and so honest yeah that they just they couldn't edit it out or do anything about it because I wouldn't shut up about it and I was like send me home I don't care I was not afraid of going home yeah I was like I was daring production to send me home um and just being honest and transparent and like that was a choice i made i will say like the kissing like like we're taking kissing very seriously and i think that's what's sealing the deal like will shouldn't have kissed

olivia because if they didn't kiss grab her face to do it yeah yeah like so intensely then i think all would have been forgiven same if Will and Kylie never kissed she would have had more room to be with Avon but like whatever make out is like a handshake in our culture on everybody so it's like I think that is what we're taking like so seriously right now

I will say not that I don't I think Olivia is great I think she's great TV I think she says what she means yeah she was kind of done a little dirty. So I don't want to feel like I'm picking sides. But as far as like Kylie and the actual dating goes. Olivia would be such a good friend to like hear her debrief dates on the phone. Yeah.

Like, you know what I mean? Like she's the kind of person you're like, I'm going for a walk and I'm gonna be gone for at least an hour. Like she would tell all like all the color commentary, like all the important details in the most like entertaining way. i think she's great i'm so not here for what inevitably this whole pooping i know it's gonna be i know they're teasing it a little too hard and like i could have gone without the turtle the turtle oh my god i know i'm like that's like too graphic it was it's really graphic and whether it's the hannah brown or Katie coming in, all these scenes of the turtle,

to me, that tells me like you're not getting the content you need. Yeah. And like, we don't know anything else about Sam and her relationships. We just know she's constipated. Like, poor Sam. It seems like she's like thriving with what's his nuts. Aaron. Yeah.

And then there was, the breeze with pete like why are people calling him pilot pete so weird is a pilot but like there's already a pilot pete like dub a different name i also didn't really understand that drama between him and what's his name aaron two guys i don't care about literally brayden you know what's interesting about brayden he comes across as a fuck boy he He's good looking. I know his earrings throw people off. His duck earrings. They're polarizing. They're polarizing.

Yeah. His hat. It's definitely too much. You know. If you remember from last season where he got upset with Charity for dating other men on her season of The Bachelorette, which he's entitled to, but he was upset about it. And they kind of preview him at the whole bonfire of, you know,

they kind of tease this idea that he's all in, but Kate's not yet. And they keep referring to the, who's Tanner? Kat, who's Tanner? Can we bring up this Tanner person? Tanner was,

he went on the one-on-one with Sean, like the Bayou. Oh, him? He was like, he seemed like a sweetie pie who just like never got a one-on-one and it was too late that's who she's waiting for?

interesting because who in the interview made a mention Kat mentioned two people she said one guy and then she said and then she said Tanner but the fact that she said him second

makes it seem like that's the person she didn't want to admit that she was actually waiting for and the first name she threw out was like more of a i'm just kind of open to playing the field i think it was tyler norris oh tyler norris yeah okay because they do the promo and then someone else mentioned tanner as if like they almost had a conversation with kat that she was waiting for him and brayden was an unexpected love interest that she has dived into but like I guess Brayden seems again like

he gets triggered by the idea like he's all in like they're hot and heavy right now I feel I mean in the preview for next week it shows him telling her that he feels like used in a dirty whore yes yes he says a dirty whore which i kind of love because

you know like everyone just thinks he's the fuck boy yeah i know when he's like all in i know i don't know i'm i've become a brayden fan for all his flaws well i think like that the two of them being a relationship makes me like both of them more because they're like not necessarily who I would have like picked for one another and I think like she makes him seem a little bit more like together or like classy in a way that I can't describe and then he like makes her seem a little like looser and it feels like he's not afraid to like pick fun at her in like healthy ways so it's like one of those couples where I'm like oh I like that they found each other but yeah I just like hate this like which I know is like maybe the backbone of paradise. But it's like if you were to ask me

who I was coming down for, I'd be like, based on what? I didn't talk to anyone in Bachelor Nation before or after I was the Bachelorette. I didn't really like, like you're basing it still on a photo. And we all know that like from online dating that it's just like a bridge to nowhere. So like, why are we still talking about who are you waiting for based on a fire emoji?

Part of it is I think, unfortunately, you're not the norm. It's just so crazy. And I'm the type of way that it's like, I only have eyes for one person. So if I was like, I mean, it seems like they have like, they're pretty into each other. They're like always making out. They're both like, super high. I'd be like, well, you like, I mean, it seems like they have like they're pretty into each other. They're like always making out. They're both like super high. Be like, well, you know, I did come down for so and so. But it's like I'm having a great time with him. So I can't really say. Yeah.

Yeah. Like there's like none of that. I think part of it, though, is like other than Rachel and maybe Blake, the majority of the cast are people who have had little to no airtime on their respective seasons. And it's a bunch of people who, my guess is, having met similar people with similar bachelor experiences, there's a very different energy, I guess. There's a lot of, this is my time. And they're going to all the events. They're trying to network within the bachelor community. Yeah. And they're going to all the events. They're trying to network within the bachelor community. And yeah. And I think you kind of see that coming out on this season rather than. Right. Other seasons where it was more star studded. Yeah. No, I agree. There seems like I feel like even like the language is a little off. Like, why are we not just like saying what we mean? Like, I feel like there's a little bit of like an inauthenticity around it like I can't really explain it but I'm like okay like what are we actually here for I don't know I do think Jess

and Blake are a couple that like I I never would have thought to put them together but when I saw them together I was like oh I feel like you guys really work and like it feels like one of those like satisfying paradise like oh cool like these two people who you might like glitter girl and like wildlife falls for everyone like you know like you who people who you might like glitter girl and like wildlife falls for everyone like you know like you who you might not have seen meshing and so like that felt like a little silver lining kind of but in general it's a lot of no yeah no i feel like it was an unlikely match but i don't know about your whole personality being glitter like i'm sorry i don't i didn't watch last season she seems seems really sweet. So it's like,

it's not at all personal. And like Blake is like, he feels older. He feels older and she feels really young. And I'm always, I always have like a, my understanding is the, um,

it's not a TV thing. It is very much who she is. Yeah. She leads with glitter. Oh no, I believe that. Yeah. No, I genuinely believe that. So I i think i was like that's the problem yeah yeah which it seems to be rubbing literally rubbing off on other people on the beach yeah including brayden yeah which he probably is

just like oh glitter give me some of that he needs to do less so much less yeah i can't i can't get behind the earrings, like the dangly matching earrings. And like this seems just like, like you're, yeah, picking something just to like to pick something to be like different. But it's like,

I don't know, just like be yourself. It feels like everybody showed up for Lollapalooza or Coachella and he is there for Burning Man. You know, like there's just like something energetically about him. Yeah, I will say the style this season, I feel like is so elevated. Like the girls look so good.

Kylie's bathing suit. I couldn't stop commenting on it. Oh, yeah. I was like, wait, look at the texture. Yeah. I feel like Greer had great style gone too soon, in my opinion. Olivia had like some. Greer's already gone?

Yeah. I'm kind of shocked about that I feel like she was pretty good tv on her season she yeah I didn't watch but I've heard about her she seems really sweet like I feel like she just wasn't given a chance yeah but that's the thing with these like first day paradise like whatever and also can the women get the roses first for once like I will say like why are they always going like like, let's get some power. Always the dudes. Men always start with the rose.

Or maybe there's been a season a while ago, but for the, like, a recent memory. Yeah. And like, seeing like Peter

get to feel like the bachelor in paradise for a second. Yeah. I don't know. What did you think about him telling all the women

that they were beautiful? Like, did you think that was a fuckboy move? Yeah. Or do you think that was him like trying to be nice, like, knowing this is an environment

where, like, people might feel kind of insecure and wanting to, like, validate them? I zoned out the second he opened his mouth. Yeah, I think he's, like... I don't remember him doing that, but... You also zoned out? Yeah, I feel like it's fine. I mean, damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Yeah, I feel like it feels a little bit taking advantage of what you think is power. Like, oh, I have the rose and I know there's three women that are supposed to go home. So like, I'm going to go validate every one of them and then pick who I want the most after. It feels very like not genuine. And then going up to Sam, too, who like feels kind of coupled off and all the other women are like, you already have three women you want to afford. Right. And then break dancing away.

That was so weird. It's so weird. He's got to go. Yeah. I think that about does it. Gabby is so much fun. Always. As always.

Yes. Please let my audience know all the great things that you're doing. Yeah. It's just this annoying thing. It's like lots of stuff in the works, but I can't really say. We'll have you back on as soon as you have other things you can talk about. Please. Please.

of work so I can't really say but we'll have you back on as soon as you have other things you can talk about please something exciting coming this week um and then hopefully something right around the corner amazing yeah well be sure to check out all of grabby grabby grabby grabby windy all of gabby's amazing stuff we can't wait to have her back on again I know you all love listening to her takes we have a really great episode for you this Thursday on Going Deeper. Heather Dubrow from Real Housewives of Orange County joins us right after her reunion drops on Wednesday. So lots to talk about with Heather. So much more coming for you guys.

We have, I can't even talk about it, you know, but we have some great episodes in the docket lined up for y'all. We can't wait to share it with you be sure to check out if you haven't listened to the izzy episode be sure to check that out also our astnick episodes if you love relationship stories and people talking about the things that work and don't work in their relationships and some uh life lessons yeah some life lessons that we've all learned from our own mistakes trip be sure to check those out don't forget to sign up for vile files plus if you love your update specials and if you love your vanderpump recaps if you love your pop culture

recaps that's all there and more it's seven day seven day free trial go to vilefiles.com all right well see you on thursday bye