The Viall Files - E652 Going Deeper with Heather Dubrow Plus Rachel Leviss’ Auction and Sophie and Joe’s Agreement

Episode Date: October 12, 2023

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Going Deeper Edition! First, the household gets together to discuss some recent pop culture headlines - like Special Forces Episode 3, Rachel Leviss auctioning off her lightning bolt necklace and TomTom sweatshirt, Meghan Markle strategizing her next moves in entertainment, and playing FMK between Leo Dicaprio, Bradley Cooper, and Tyler Cameron. Then, we are joined by Heather Dubrow to talk about this season of Real Housewives of Orange County, the secret selling of her house, Shannon’s DUI, and raising children in the spotlight. She gives us some behind-the-scenes tea and talks about her hope to return to acting. We also have a Texting Office Hours caller who is debating tattling on her cheating boyfriend to his mother in order to get him off of her lease.  “That is anti-female.”  Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes. Join us for our new LIVE show on Thursdays at 9PM ET/6PM PT on Amp, available in the Apple app store. Android User? Listen here: https://www.onamp.com/   To Order Nick’s Book Go To: http://www.viallfiles.com  If you would like to get some texting advice on Office Hours send an email to [e-mail] with “Texting Office Hours” in the subject line! To advertise on the show, contact [e-mail] or visit https://www.advertisecast.com/TheViallFiles  THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Rocket Money - Stop wasting money on things you don’t use. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions – and manage your money the easy way – by going to https://www.RocketMoney.com/VIALL  OneSkin - Get 15% off with the code VIALL at https://www.oneskin.co  Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @nnataliejjoy @heatherdubrow @alison.vandam @liffordthebigreddog @dereklanerussell @genevievegoodman

what's going on everybody welcome back to another new and exciting episode of the vile files going deeper edition i'm your host nick joined, joined by the household, full household. Everyone's here. We got Allie Genevieve, Amanda, Derek, my lovely fiance, pop culture correspondent, Allie Joy. How is everyone doing? We got a fantastic episode.

The wonderful Heather Dubrow is with us. Hot off her reunion. This is part three. Two. No, no. This is part three. Two. No, no. This is part three. Yes. This episode.

Oh, yes. Yeah, they released part two yesterday. Well, Nick is Andy in this scenario. Yeah. No one could replace Andy. No one. Okay. Yeah.

If he's listening. If he's listening. Yeah. Yeah. And if he's not. We'll do our best. We'll do our best. But Heather is with us.

She is a very generous and very giving guest. The classiest, like not shit talker, but like she's both like says things that are substantive and like add insight to dramatic situations without being like super petty. She answered our questions without it seeming like she was talking shit. But nevertheless, she had some honest responses about her peers on the show and we are excited to share that with you yeah i think that's a nice way of putting it yeah yeah she's great she was really great yeah she had a lot to say i mean i know we usually do long episodes but we she was great this was full of it we unpacked like tons of major storylines from the season, unpacked where things stand now.

Really? Super pleased with Heather. Juicy juice. Before we get to Heather, Raquel, Rachel, excuse me, Rachel. It says Raquel here. Are you- That's what every- I didn't write this headline.

Okay. This is a headline. Yes. Oh, interesting. Yeah. It's pretty mixed online when people talk about her. I feel like half are still calling her Raquel. That is interesting. Yeah. It's pretty mixed online when people talk about her. You know, I feel like half are still calling her Raquel. That is interesting that media outlets are choosing some to honor her request and some are not.

Interesting. It's kind of like how so many people, like Angela Wei has talked about how that is the name that she wants to go by, but then also like Blac Chyna is the brand kind of thing. And so I wonder if it's a similar situation of just like as a news outlet, you're like, well, first and foremost, I'm trying to get people's attention and convey information.

So this is the most like expedient way to do that. Raquel slash Rachel Levis auctioning off her lightning bolt necklace and infamous Tom Tom hoodie for charity. Genevieve, can you read her quote? Her quote, I'm currently in the process of letting go.

Letting go of the things that no longer serve me anymore. And as I'm cleaning up my closet, I found a few items that are a little bit triggering and I just don't want to see them. I don't want to have them in my possession. I will never wear them again. It's all about creating a better mindset, changing your environment so that you can set yourself up for success. Okay. I feel like throwing them away would be easier.

What do you think one of these go for? Yeah, that's kind of the question because it's like, how do I find this iconic piece of like pop culture history? I'm sure she'll make a bunch of money off of it. You think so? Oh my God. Yeah. There is some crazy Vanderbilt fan.

Well, it takes two. To fight each other for a bidding war. For an auction. It takes two. It is for a good cause. The National Alliance of Mental Illness for World Mental Health Day.

Okay, queen. Sure. Be really slimy if she kept the money. Do we know what they're at currently? Has she listed them yet or has she just pledged

to list them? I don't know where this auction is. Oh, yeah. The whole pledge to pay. That's different. She pledges to pay all of the money she makes. We'll see if she follows through.

How's that podcast of hers coming along? I don't think we've heard another peep about it. On a Vilefiles Plus episode, I'm sure she subscribes. We gave her some pointers. Did we? I'm just not sure of the audience that's uplifting the other women it seems like a i don't know okay the tom tom hoodie is going for six thousand one hundred

dollars right now on ebay that's the highest bid according to a jezebel article there's still a few days left pop off i guess that's why she's not throwing it away meanwhile the necklace is going for one thousand six hundred twenty five Interesting that I would have suspected the necklace would go for more. Yeah. You can ruin a hoodie. You can stain it. It could shrink. The necklace, I guess, could break.

I mean, the whole point, obviously, is that it's relevant. Not that it's nice jewelry, but I do think you could probably get a lightning bolt necklace pretty easily. Or so maybe it's because the hoodie would be like harder to replicate, so to speak. Okay. Yeah. Someone's like, this is Raquel's lightning.

It's like, no, I saw that also on Etsy. Yeah. At Target. Okay. Well, well,

I guess. Should we place a bid? I think it's good for her. Should we place a bid? No. Could you imagine if we got the TomTom? I literally could not imagine it. I literally couldn't.

So we're talking about Jax a bit. Obviously, we're doing our Vanderbump. Vanderbump. Vanderbump. We're on our Vanderbump. Recaps plug. But Jax was talking a bit of shit about Tom Sandoval just like having a podcast coming out and doing this podcast.

And then now he's changed his tune because he came out and said, I'll likely be on it. Okay. And that's code for Jax Taylor basically trying to create a buzz around him getting on it. That's him asking Tom to be on it, in my opinion. He's begging the fans to go to Tom Sandoval's comment section and say, get Jax on, get Jax on, Jax Taylor, must have Jax Taylor.

I wonder what they would talk about. Being the man and the other woman. Who is the better cheater. Who cheated better. It would be really interesting to hear them talk. Yeah. Then give each other pointers on. Yeah.

Well, it's like they used to be such mutual enablers that it's interesting to like think about whether or not those roots would kind of come to the surface when they were together again. Yeah, I mean, Tom did tell me in the, which they didn't show on Special Forces. We can talk about that a little bit. Last episode was basically the car maze thing. I don't know, the car course. We had to drive through a kidnapping or something.

It's funny, though. It's like a little skit they set you up for. I feel like Allie and I would actually do really well on that. A real life simulation. Billy would be like setting the scene. On the way to that I basically interviewed Tom in the back of a Jeep. It was just the two of us. And we had like an hour car ride.

And there's like GoPros in the Jeeps and they'll show a couple soundites from them. But I just like basically interviewed him. You know, I was asked him why he did it. You know, asked him why a partner could trust him in the future. And next week on Special Forces, I fight Tom Sandoval. We get into a fist fight.

Can't wait. And so if you want to see Tom getting a fight with someone an actual fight we don't just take our shirts off and i don't run into his arms and have him try to hold me up like they do on banner pump if you want to see tom get punched in the face tune into special forces on monday yes i mean two people who seem to be pausing the fight are joe jonas and sophie turner did you see that they reached quote an amicableicable resolution after having some mediation? So they've got the custody schedule figured out for their kids and through like January 7th. See, this all could have been done without Joe Jonas trying to win the PR battle.

Really? These kids are really going to get their frequent flyer miles on. Sounds like they'll be flying back and forth. It's a lot of traveling. Over the big Atlantic from like every two weeks or something? Yeah. That seems nuts. A judge would sign off on that?

The girls will remain with Turner from October 9th to October 21st and the actress is permitted to travel with them throughout the US

or UK as she pleases. Within that time frame, Turner 27 will deliver the girls to Jonas 34 on the 21st and they will remain with him until

November 2nd what happens after that the pair will continue to hand off custody to each other through January 7th 2024 giving the kids the opportunity to spend Thanksgiving with their father and and Christmas with their mother that makes a lot of sense because she's British yeah yeah but my family Thanksgiving isn't but what happens after that? I guess they'll renegotiate. They'll like go back to figuring out. Because I guess they, I mean, it's kind of unreasonable to do like two weeks on, two weeks off for the rest. I don't know. Yeah, because for like schooling.

Yeah. When they're not at that age yet, but like when that happens, you know, that's not going to work. Well, I'm just glad that they seem to reach a resolution. Yeah. That's the important part. Totally. Totally. Team Sophie.

You know who also reached a resolution? Ariana Grande and Dalton Gomez. Oh. Yeah. Team Dalton. We'd love to have him on, but it doesn't seem like that's possible. Yeah, it seems like he, I think he signed a- NDA.

A lot of NDAs, a lot of paperwork to get- I thought it was kind of interesting because it was $1,250,000 was the payout. It's tax free. So that's the actual amount that he will receive. Ariana Grande is also going to pay his attorney fees. But for that agreement, he is not going to say anything like he can't write a tell all. He can't speak about the relationship like he can't dish anything. And don't you think can make a lot more than one point two million dollars? That's what I was thinking. But I was like, I don't necessarily know what the... Do you think?

I don't know. Ariana Grande's ex-husband? Oh my gosh, he could make so much money. I feel like he can make more than $1.2 million. That's a lot of money, though. But maybe he just doesn't want to be messy and wants to just take the money. Yeah, it's definitely a classy approach, but I was just like, huh. It doesn't seem...

Well, it would not be free. I don't think her fans would go down quietly so to speak. Maybe he just doesn't want the hassle. This is definitely probably better on his mental health. Meghan Markle is strategizing her Hollywood reinvention with a new team. I love that for her.

I loved her in suits. Oh, you think that means acting? I took it as like the podcast didn't work. Our doc didn't create a more permanent space for us with Netflix. You think she's going to go back to acting? Totally. I guess it would be all of the above.

Hollywood, hosting. Maybe she will be back flipping over numbers in suitcases. Yeah, but maybe it would be like as someone who has had to feel many unfair bits of criticism, but just a ton of criticism in general, like maybe it would be nice to do acting where it is like you are getting to embody a role of somebody who is not yourself. You get a little bit more distance and that way like all the critics can lay off you as an individual a little bit. They're saying they're strategizing what mediums will have the most impact. They're probably thinking...

Oil on canvas. See, the word impact, I don't love. Just go back and be a Hollywood star. The pressure of doing good or impact? I don't know. I just think it's... Do you think impact means more impact on her career

or impact on the world? Well, they said that her next step has to be rooted in giving back and philanthropy. See? Oh, she's been in contact with fashion houses and documentary directors. Hmm. I mean, I guess I understand the pressure I get, but it's just like, I don't know. I also do think like it seemed like from the documentary on Netflix, like Harry has always been genuinely invested in the philanthropy work he did. Like, you know, the place in Africa that he goes to, that's a very special place for him.

That was like a reoccurring service project. It wasn't just like a simple PR move once. And so I do think that was a foundation of their relationship was like feeling purpose and cause driven. I think part of the reason they maybe she was willing to accept the visibility of being in the royal family was those hopes that with this platform it could fuel her passion for doing that. I understand completely why people might have some questions about the sincerity of that or call

it a PR move, but I also think there is a chance that it's genuinely what she feels a sense of purpose and wants to do with her life. Natalie's a staunch Meghan Markle fan. I'm a what? Staunch Meghan Markle fan. What does staunch mean? die like die hard

yeah never heard that in my life can you google it? staunch am I using it correctly? that feels kind of aggressive it does

it sounds like an insult loyal and committed attitude what is it? loyal and committed loyal and committed yeah you are a loyal

and committed fan to Meghan Markle I'm a staunch you're a staunch the example to give is a staunch supporter of the anti-nuclear lobby. Totally.

Yes. So relatable. Okay. Can you look up really quick the word of the day on Urban Dictionary? Or word of the week? Babe, if you were a part of Meghan Markle's team, what would you like to see her in as a fan? I think she could give like superhero vibe. Superhero?

Like Marvel. DC? What is the word of the day? I want to see her like procedural like CSI Miami. Like a detective? Yeah.

Yeah, that could be hot too. Cheesy one-liners. What about like a Grey's Anatomy too? I could see Grey's Anatomy. A doctor. Totally. Yeah.

I could see her playing a doctor. Like saving a kid or something? Yes. Yes. She's an oncologist. She'd love that. Yeah. Yes. And she always has to deliver the bad news and she just doesn't want to take her stress home and there's like a scene where she's like this is always the hardest part yeah yeah

yeah there it is uh you can send the check to you don't need that whole team what would that team cost what is this what what is the word of the day on urban dictionary is that just like when you go on the home page the word that comes up why Urban Dictionary? Is that just like when you go on the homepage, the word that comes up? Why are you asking? Well, because that just made me think of it. Like, what'd you call me? Staunch. At first I said staunch.

Because I used to work for this doctor in Georgia and it was like these two, the CRNA and the surgeon were both like these 40 year old dads and they had teenagers. And I was like the young surgical tech and they would always, every day on surgery we had every Tuesday, we'd operate in the office and they would look up the word of the week or word of the day to like figure out what their kids were saying and what that meant. And it would always be like, WAP. I remember it was one day. They're like, what is WAP?

And I was like, wet ass pussy. The thing about Urban D. They're like, what is WAP? And I was like, wet-ass pussy. The thing about Urban Dictionary, though, is like, they will say anything, like, you can look up candle and it'll be like, a sex position where seven people, like, roll down a hill while, like, performing fellatio- like, it's always, like, wilding out. While really hot. Yeah.

And lighting the end of their hair on fire. Yeah, that is true. I remember you'd look up your name on Urban Dictionary and it'd be like, a really hot... Yes, or sometimes it'd be like, a little nerd girl. Let's see what Nick is on... What the name Nick means on Urban Dictionary? On Urban Dictionary?

Oh. Not great. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. It's like buried to a point where I'm like, I feel weird. Like, Nick. A Nick will make the best boyfriend guy friend ever. Oh, my God. With their big brown eyes and a heart melting smile. It's hard not to fall for them.

They are different in a beautiful way. I did not write this. Possess a very funny, odd sense of humor. They are there when you need them and they value their friendships. They like to look good and dress well. Handsome and charming. They've had a hard life, but never get kicked down and stays down. They change

for the better and are stronger than ever. Very successful at life, make great dads, known to be players, but when they meet that special goal, special girl, they're sold. Knicks come off as tough and solid, but deep down their soft side comes out and you see the sweet gentleman

in them. They're not them. Am I a stereotypical Nick? I don't believe you didn't write this. Literally. The brown eyes. You guys crafted this. What's the urban dictionary word for Nick? This is a whole set. This is too much of a set up. Wait, we should look up my name. Try Natalie next.

I heard. Finish. Finish. Oh. I'm like, I didn't want to hear more. I mean, it was fairly, you know. I don't know if I, I mean, I've had my struggles, but, you know, hard life. Okay. So they're not popular, but not a loner either. Friends love them and guys want to be him. They have a really laid back attitude about themselves, but at the same time, they can

be the life of the party. Even though they can be a jerk at times, they mean well and are really the nicest guys ever. If you have a Nick, don't let go. None of them compares. I told y'all. No, I've been the life of the party. I don't often, and as I've aged, it's less important to me, but I'm more than capable and have been.

Period. Period. Slay. Thank you. You're very nice. But that was uncanny. Meanwhile, usually Urban Dictionary is like, do you squirt?

Do you squirt? Oh, Howie. That was crazy. Look it up about yourself. I don't believe in horoscopes. You're glowing. You're glowing. No, truly. Nick has literally never. It was just weirdly, weirdly accurate.

It's like Nick is the most handsome, stunning, funny. Well, I can't comment on that part. I was more referring to the not popular,, you know, the more nuanced critiques. Would you say that you were a player before you met that special girl? Oh, for sure. I think one, I wouldn't call it a player. By your definition presented in your book, Fuckboy, not player. Sure.

Nick has been in a fuckboy era. For sure. I have participated in hookup culture. Disgusting. Anyways, moving the fuck on from that. Well, to tie this up, it might be sleep debt. No way. It's what?

That's the word of the week or word of the day. Well, there's a lot. Wait, Amanda, I don't understand how this website works. This is from 2008, but it's on the. Yeah, it was on the home. I don't understand how Urban Diction website works. This is from 2008, but it's on the... Yeah, it was on the homepage. I don't understand how Urban Dictionary works. Okay, I guess sleep debt is one of the word of the week,

which I'm not really understanding. No, but that's from 2011. Really? Yeah. We need to update. Derek, do you know how Urban Dictionary works? Because you've been awfully quiet while we've been struggling Yeah I made the website

No I think it's just they highlight random Old It doesn't have to be new but they highlight random words They tend to be kooky and crazy Kooky and crazy Maybe next week We'll circle back next week Did you see the Gigi Hadid grabbing dinner with Bradley Cooper?

Was he the one who got dinner with Irina Shank a while ago? Irina's his ex-wife. And they are still co-parenting. Them having dinner, I don't think is that big of a deal. Tom Brady.

Tom Brady is hanging out with Irina. And so I was like, oh my god, is this going to be... Bradley's hanging out with her and so i was like oh my god is bradley's hanging out with uh gg and gg used to hang out with leo or was that bella and tyler cameron yes gg wow yeah gg's in the actor realm okay after tyler she's like ah i gotta get out of this mary fuck kill bradley cooper tyler cameron leo dicaprio uh well kill leo yeah i feel like we have to make it a little harder i don't know if i'd kill him i mean like i love his work as an actor but like on a current hotness scale what is this leo like titanic era like what are we talking the departed oh i mean that changes things never been harder i mean bradley cooper is hotter than

leo every day of the week and twice on Sunday. It's a line from a movie. Period. Period. Slay. And then who's the third one? Tyler Cameron. You can't kill Tyler.

I mean, I think Tyler's just a really great guy who is going to make a great husband someday. So you probably marry Tyler. You fuck Bradley and you kill Leo. You can't answer that. I know. I can't answer that. I'm sorry. I would kill Tyler, but you know, he's such a good friend to you.

Yeah, I know. I don't want to kill your buddy. Okay, well, we just won't kill Tyler. Yeah. I'll just sub him in. Yeah, like- That's not how this game works. You have to follow through with it.

Okay, like marry, fuck, banish. Oh, that's fun. Disappear. Be gone. Leo, really? You're still stumped for leo no i just think he's hot we haven't said our answers yeah you'll never know him to be just well actually i would i would love to discard him the way he discards women who turn 26 but there's also there's like a store i don't know it's like i love how it's now 26 because he's dating a 25 year old-old right now or something.

The number only went up one. Went up one year. He's like, fine, I'll make an exception. He's like, after careful consideration of everyone's feedback. I will date a 25-year-old. We love that for Gigi. She's, yeah, but she really seems to be going for the older guy. Been telling her.

Yeah. I just thought he'd date if he was gonna break up with you know he would go after lady gaga really didn't we all think that was gonna happen maybe years ago hey i love the purity in this movie they're called actors no no do you remember when she said the same thing at like every interview and Bradley just had to Sit there and listen to it every time Do you remember saying that? There was a hundred people in a room And you just need one to believe in you

And he was the one that believed in me And she would say that at every Fucking press interview Like a slightly different variation Sometimes she'd be like there was ninety people And the hundredth person sometimes she'd do that Yeah And Bradley acted like it was the first time he had heard it every single time an incredible performance sometimes you need to do that with people like when people are sharing information

that's exciting to them that you know for a fact you have heard multiple times but it's like you're like you just gotta let him have it i don't do that i will say no i'm quick to be told the story before you told me shut up shut up I met Bradley once you told me yesterday I think I might have told this story already but I met him once

and he introduced himself to me it was very you know like which is not normal I don't think I've met Leo didn't introduce

himself to me it was just in a way that was very gracious and like you know he didn't know who the fuck I was he was like hi I'm Bradley and I was like

did Gerard Butler introduce himself to us or did we no we definitely we just started chatting with him and then it was like we were just like

in the same group and started chatting but Bradley was very polite sexy you know it was like there was a very different tone meeting him than other like

bigger celebrities I've interacted with that's lovely yeah he was very lovely yeah because I think sometimes it's like I kind of felt like this honestly with Heather where it's like sometimes there It was very lovely. Yeah. Cause I think sometimes it's like,

I kind of felt like this honestly with Heather, where it's like, sometimes there's just like a, when you're in the room with someone, you just like pick up on these intangible things that kind of give you insight into their like warmth or level of humility. And you can't always, like sometimes you can articulate why, but sometimes it's,

you can't quite put it into words, but you just, you're like, you just pass the vibe check. It's good to know that Bradley does. And it's a weird thing to do. Just to introduce yourself to people who you must know they know who you are,

but it's an awkward thing to do that he clearly has worked through. I don't know. Nice guy. What an amazing transition. Did you do that on purpose? Sure did. Only if we want it to be, though.

It was either... Throwing it out there. Oh, let's have it let's have it play okay you should or uh don't forget to send those questions at ask nick at the vile files.com for all things ask nick texting office hours we have a doozy of a texting office hour today with heather if you're tuning in for the first time to listen to heather welcome. We talk a lot of Bravo shows, a lot of Housewives, a lot of Vanderpump, huge Vanderpump fans in this household, along with some of your other favorite reality TV shows, pop culture topics, and things like that. And if you love relationship conversations, every Monday we drop our Ask Nick episodes.

People call in, similar to our texting office hours in this episode, share their stories, ask some questions. We offer some advice. It's a lot of fun. People learn a lot, are super entertained. That's every Monday. Also, don't forget, on Monday, another special episode of Ask Nick.

Eli Rallo is with us, joining us for an Ask Nick episode. Share some of her great insight into relationships. We've got a new book coming out. Very insightful, very fun, and it's a great episode. So you should be sure to check that out as well. Either way, check it out. Tell your friends. We appreciate you. It's time for Heather Dubrow. Are your subscriptions draining your wallet? The average person has

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I'm good. I haven't seen you in like years. It's been a while. I think the last time we talked, I was on your podcast, but that was virtually. That's true. Do you remember where we met?

In the waiting room on some show. Hollywood Today Live. I was like, I think that's Heather Dubrow when I'm too starstruck to say hello. I sat next to you, and I was like, oh, he's cute,

but my husband was on the other side. He was there. Oh, cock block. Missed a moment. What a cock block. A cocking block. What a cocker blocker. How is Terry, by the way?

He's good. Not dead. Did you see he had a stroke? Yeah. Well, we watched the reunion and I got to say, you talked about that situation so calmly and I'm watching it being like, this sounds horrific. It was horrific. It was crazy. And it was so much more. I had already told the story sort of on my podcast. And like I had sat down with Andy and one of the times I was on Watch What Happens Live right after it happened. And I told him the whole thing.

So I felt like they're not going to use any of this. Do I really want to tell the whole story? I kind of truncated it. But the truth is, is that after it happened, I was in shock, even though I was, you know, was calm during the whole thing. You know what? It took me a few weeks to process it. The way you described it, it almost sounded like he had like a manic episode. So is that accurate to say?

I mean, I wouldn't say manic. I would say what happened was, so we were, like briefly, we were sitting at the Ivy with our oldest son and he started slurring his words. And I looked at my son and I was like, like, I thought I missed something. And then I go, are you okay? And he had food in his mouth because we had just like started eating and drinking. And he started going like that. And he's a jokester.

So as soon as I said, are you OK? He started doing that. So I thought he was fucking with me. And I was like, are you are you joking? Are you OK? And then he did it again. And I stood and I realized he was having a stroke. So I stood up and I told my son to call 9-1-1 and whatever. So what happened was he sort of came out of it and went to the bathroom and he looked at me and he goes, what are you doing? Like he was coming out of it. And he went to the bathroom and I told my son to follow him. And I got on the phone with 911. And then I said, is there a key? Because he locked himself. He locked the bathroom door. And so I said, oh, my God. So I ran up there and I'm banging on the door. And that set him over the edge. He was like, why are you banging on the door? And I was like, OK, he's conscious. And then he walked out to the front and we're at the Ivy.

TMZ bus is going by. Like it was it was crazy. But I remembered in the back of my mind that people get belligerent after having an episode like this. And so basically what happened was it was an hour of me chasing him literally in hills, chasing him through the streets of Beverly Hills, trying to get him to go to the hospital. And he was running away from me and my son. It was crazy. That is terrifying. It was terrifying.

Wow. Well, I'm glad he's okay. Yes. Does he believe all of that now when you tell him? He's like, no, I didn't. His version is much mellower than what happened. He's like, I wasn't running. I was just walking fast.

He's like, you were just irritating me. I needed to be away. I mean, I think it can be, my parents visited a couple years back. It was the first time Natalie met my parents

and my dad's like, blood pressure dropped like that. And I, for like six seconds, I thought, I was like, my dad's dying.

And Natalie was very calm being in healthcare. She knew how to respond. But yeah. It's so good that you're calm. Yeah. It very scary she was great he turned like white white you know i was and i'm on the phone with 9-1-1 but he you know he when he came to he was very you know self-conscious and very defensive and very like belligerent embarrassed kind of that embarrassed that prideful like kind of you know uh didn't want people taking care of him.

Kind of. I don't know if it's just like an old man thing or is it more like a body response? It's both. Yeah. It's both. I mean, my husband's 65. He's no young chicken. How did your son deal with that?

He was great. And he was, I mean, really incredible until we got in the car. So other stuff happened. But basically, Terry then got into an Uber and left. I tried to get into a first Uber with him and he jumped out because he didn't want to go with me. He didn't want me to go with him. Then he got a second Uber after the hour long chase and he got into an Uber and he left. And my son looked at me, goes, what are we going to do? I go, we're going to get our own Uber. So we got our own Uber and I followed him and attract him on

my phone. So I knew exactly, you know, where he was and where we were in relation to him and the whole thing. Soon as we got in the car, my son lost it, lost it. So now I'm like trying to track him. I'm dealing with my kid. It was a lot. Everyone's good. How did your co-stars respond to that story? Well, I'll tell you, my co-stars all, when it came out in the press, he was always going to talk about it because, you know, it's always about helping other people and trying to spread awareness, especially medically. But the reason why it came out so quickly is that TMZ had videos of us fighting outside the aviator. I'm like, no shit. We were fighting. I was trying to get into an ambulance, which he wouldn't get into.

Cedars was across the street. He wouldn't go there. We ended up going to Hogue in Newport. I mean, the whole thing was so crazy. So it came out. Newport, that's like a drive. Yes. And with a stroke, like the clock is ticking.

Let's go to the far hospital. Let's go to the farthest one ever. But he on staff there so it actually ended up being probably a better he's fine he actually had a hole in his heart like hayley bieber had they fixed it in a 10 minute procedure and he's fine thank god okay yeah but they all all my cast members cast, texted me with an appropriate comment or emoji. But I realized at the reunion when I sort of recounted the tiniest bit of the story that they didn't follow any of it. An emoji, like a crying emoji. I think you're very, you're very gracious. The only two that knew the story were Gina and Emily, because I had had breakfast with them a few days, like four or five days before the reunion. And it just happened.

Does Gina know every story? Because she seems like she's always in the know with all the gossip. She was on the show. Very lovely. She kind of reminded me of like maybe the neighbor who's always peeking over the fence, you know, just kind of showing up.

Be like, hey, what's the drama? Or is that inaccurate? I don't know. What I will tell you is that I know nothing. You're far out of it. I'm so, I know nothing ever. What was frustrating when I was watching the reunion, because I actually just watched the second part. What was frustrating for me is that, you know, there's an algorithm, as you know, to these shows. I think it's every 30 hours we film, 20 minutes makes it to the air, right? So the reunion day is like a 12, 13 hour just for filming.

And it was two parts and they're 42 minutes each. So you can imagine not everything is shown. And I feel like there were some really good valid points made from everyone that weren't shown. We're most interested in your valid points that you feel like weren't shown. Well, I just feel like even though things were discussed, I don't think that they were, like there wasn't a fine point or a period put on them.

I did say this to Emily about, I said, you know, you're factually incorrect. Because she just kept saying that she got the name wrong when she said, Shannon, we were all together, me and Emily and Gina. And I said to them, stupidly dumbass, me said, oh, when we were at BravoCon, Tamara was talking shit on you guys because Tamara was like hammered that night and was talking shit. And as soon as it came out, I realized I shouldn't have said that because Gina and Emily have private conversations.

Tamara and Shannon have private conversations. And it's like one lies and the other one swears to it. Like they don't say. And I was lulled into a false sense of security that I was with two women that I could like talk to and not have repercussions. And that was incorrect. So I said that. But that sentence got twisted into. sentence got twisted into Heather Dubrow said she was in Shannon Bedore's room at BravoCon and she was saying terrible things about us. And when I asked her what they were, she said, oh, no, I can't tell you they're in the vault. How did you get all of that from my one sentence?

But also if it's in the vault. But I never would have used the words in the vault when it came to tamra right so it wasn't just the name she got the entire thing wrong everything wrong and that was so frustrating and that's why when it came up and andy said to me why didn't you just tell him at the time it was i go i didn't know what she was talking about because it was so factually incorrect i had no idea what she was saying. Right. And there was also stuff from Shannon that was like much more like personal and intimate that was in the vault for good reason. Is that right? Like, OK, so they didn't show this to the reunion, but it was discussed.

The one thing was showed. So I said to her, I go, I didn't pledge to never speak about your relationship. I pledged to keep things in the vault, meaning something very hurtful, harmful to you. I'm not going to repeat. One of the things was that he said she was fat, right? And I thought I was keeping that in the vault and no one knew until Emily said it on camera. The other thing I said at the reunion, I said, you told me that John's son doesn't like you. And you saw there was a clip where she went to Video Village and said it to Video Village. So we're at the reunion and I go,

you also told me that John's son doesn't like you. And she goes, well, thanks a lot. You just put it on the show. And Andy looks at her and he goes, you already said it on the show. I mean, she really doesn't remember. What was the group chat like when her DUI broke? There wasn't. Like she, I feel like she threw so much shade at like when her DUI broke there wasn't like she I feel like she threw so

much shade at Gina for her DUI and then no one said anything no one went on the group chat wow no mature ladies I'm sure there were a lot of private conversations that went on a lot of individual chats yeah well I so I had woken up that morning and someone had texted me the article and I was up early and it was like 630 or something. And I looked at it and at first, you know, you think it's not true. Right. And I looked at it and I was like, oh my God. And then I thought, is she okay?

Whatever. And I texted Tamara and I said, have you spoken to Shannon? And she goes, no. Why? She didn't know. She didn't know. And I, and I felt bad, but how was I not going to then tell her? And so I sent it to her and she called me and we talked for a couple of minutes

and I texted Shannon and I said, are you okay? And I got kind of a party line text back that she seemed to send to a bunch of people asking us not to talk about it. And I wrote her back and I was like, you know, I had no plans to talk about it. I just wanted to see if you needed anything. And I didn't hear back. What is, is there like a unwritten rule or rule? Like what? Is there a DUI protocol?

Or just like filming in general, like Housewives, it's the same cast, but there's, you know, you've left, you've come back. There's people like, you know, it's the same cast, but there's, you know, you've left, you've come back, there's people, you know, Tamara is back. With each new group, is there like, before you start filming, kind of like, hey, here's what's on the table, here's what's off the table? Because it, you know, at the reunion, a lot of the conversation was about like these rules that you, some people seem to have, you know, other people don't. Like, you share this, but you're not supposed to talk about this. Other housewives are like, it's a show. It seemed to be a lot

of confusion about what the expectations are. And there's no conversations that happen about that stuff offline? No, I mean, there's no playbook and no one sits down. However, back in the day when I first joined the show, there was a steadfast rule, no careers, no kids. You just stayed away from those two things. And I feel like that isn't always the case with everyone. And I don't like that. Leave people's careers alone and never, ever talk about people's children. With the kids part, I was curious about it because also, you know, as a parent yourself, Emily, for example, you know, Nellie and I are expecting parents. I know, that's so exciting. Do you know what you're having? The girl.

So kind of. I mean, I would have said that about a boy too. Do you have twin boys? No, I have boy-girl twins and then a girl and my youngest is a boy. Wow. Wonderful. There's a lot of them. Yeah.

But we're like, so, you know, we're sitting here and we love to talk about like, you know, are we going to raise our kid about this? And, you know, with us being, you know, a public relationship, like, you know, we've had conversations around that. And it was just fascinating for me to watch, you know, like Emily very much has her daughter on there and, you know, as he's part of the show and it's just like, you know, how does that affect young kids and things like that? Like how, how do you guys respect those unwritten rules or rules when some of the parents are kind of inserting their kids into the show? It's a really good question.

You know, it's a tough walk to walk. I mean, for me personally, when I started the show, my youngest was nine months old. So they ranged from seven to nine months old. And they're babies. They walk on. You pat them on the head. They say something silly. Everyone laughs. They leave. It's not really a big deal. all that kind of thing was, it was maybe a time to take a little step away. But when we came back, the oldest ones were at an older age where they could figure out if they wanted to be a part of it and whatnot, because it's hard. You don't want to make decisions for your kids. But the problem is, you know, we started when they were so young, like everyone knows them. You can't really take it back. And so I think it kind of is an all or nothing thing, sort of.

Well, maybe not. No, I don't actually agree with that. I think that you can be on the show and you can have your family and show your family, but not tell your children stories for them. Yeah. So that's what I try to do. And that's what I try to do. Not always well, but that's what I try to do.

I respect how they feel. It's an interesting. But that's what I try to do. Not always well, but that's what I try to do. I respect how they feel. It's an interesting. But that's different. That's what I try to do with my family. Because number one, you want to protect your kids, right? You protect your kids, you protect your family. We're on this show. We had family meetings about it, all of that kind of thing before coming back. But when it comes to other people's families on the show, like I'm not talking about Emily's kids unless she wants to talk to me about it. So whether you agree or disagree with how she's handling it, you just act like this is none of my business. It's off limits to me.

It's her kid. Unless she brings it to me on the show. If she sits down with me and goes, look, one of my kids is doing this. What do you think? I'm going to, I will totally talk to her. Yeah. Okay.

But I won't go hey i saw this clip last week of your kid on the show and boy did you fuck that up yeah it's a it's a it's a really interesting thing because you know i'm watching it and like oh it's interesting and i just wondered what all the other housewives it's hard it's really hard yeah on the topic of emily because it seemed like the season was kind of like tumultuous where it seemed like in some ways there was so much headway and it seemed like you were both really willing to be like open and honest and reflective of like, hmm, why is there this disconnect of her saying things that she thinks are totally fine or like the way she would talk to her sisters and you're saying these things like feel hurtful and like unkind. How have you been able to kind of like traverse those different sensibilities and where do you feel like you stand now? It's hard. It's really hard to figure it out as you're going. We kept having these conversations off camera and I would say to her and she would say, no, but you saw it on camera, too, when we were in Tulum. She would say, but you're my friend

and I love you and I'm sorry. And she apologized to me like three separate times, but then went right back to doing the same exact thing. And then all of a sudden, like you feel like you're like, I feel like I'm crazy. How do I figure that out? And I'm not saying I'm empirically right in all of these situations, but there was an overwhelming sense of I felt like I couldn't do no right with anyone. Yeah. And I feel like that was also like in the sale of your house. Like that seemed like you kind of set it yourself, a lose-lose situation. Watching it back, how do you kind of feel about the way that unfolded? I'm so glad I didn't tell anyone.

Yeah. Why is it their business? It's really, it's not. It's not. And I mean, can you imagine? Whatever. I don't know if I would have if the season had been going differently, but it wasn't. And I felt like it was a lose lose. And I have to say it happened so fast, literally.

And who knew if it was even going to go through? These things fall out all the time. And then we had to be out so fast. I mean, it was just so crazy. And it was kind of fun having a little secret yeah yeah you seem to some you get a little shit from your your peers about like this premise that you you know you might think that you're better than them or better than everyone what if you are what if i am well i just like i only i only say that you know because you you're on housewives and housewives is a franchise about wives screaming at each other. And certainly, you guys, you had your moments. But for the most part, you seem pretty grounded and pretty above composed and not easily rattled. You got watching the reunion.

Tamara, she's like at one moment, she's screaming at Jennifer being like, you're a horrible person. Ten minutes later, like you're an amazing person. It's like chaos. And yet you don't seem to do that. So like maybe you are just more emotionally regulated. Well, he said it. Yeah, it's my words. I wonder if maybe you in fact are. As I get older, I try to be less reactive. I wonder if maybe you in fact are.

As I get older, I try to be less reactive. I mean, certainly, probably if I was doing this show in my 20s and 30s, it could have gone slightly differently. But I mean, the thing that I sort of found amusing, not amusing, but like interesting, all the memes that you see and everything, is that people were saying, it's not that Heather thinks that she's better than you. It's that you think she's better than you. Yeah, it's a kind of a projection. And I thought about that. At first I laughed. For whatever reason think she's better than you. Yeah, it's a kind of a projection. And I thought about that. At first I laughed. And for whatever reason, she's like, period. Drop the mic. But I mean, I thought about it. And the truth is, I mean, I don't feel that way. I don't feel like I'm better than anyone. And you see at the end of the reunion, I talk about,

you know, we're sorority sisters and, you know, we have a common bond here. And I've always, You know, we're sorority sisters and, you know, we have a common bond here. And I've always, always seen all of them as fellow moms. And so at the bare minimum, we can all connect on that level. But I do think at some point it is a you problem, not a me problem. I agree. Yeah. I even wonder like little things like going out for dinner with them.

Like I can see how that must be like if the bill comes, it's such a like mind fuck to be like, well, I do. I want to like be generous and pay for this. I don't want them to think I'm being condescending. Yeah. Like I imagine for your rub, but like things would happen like, yeah,

right. But things would happen like this. Like, um, when we were at Bravo con Emily, I was wearing this big chunky necklace, this Louis Vuitton, big gold necklace.

And Emily comes out, she goes, Oh my God, I have that. And I thought, oh my God, can you imagine if I went up to her and said that and said, I have that. And then I threw that party at Nobu because apparently that's the only place we ever eat. And no one pays for those parties. So I pay for the party. I have, you know, someone that sets it up and makes it beautiful. I love to do favors.

And even though half the time they never show that stuff on camera, this is my life. And if I'm going to have a lunch or a dinner party, I'm going to do it the way I always do it. So I gave out these Tom Ford, you know, the Tom Ford candles that say fucking fabulous on them.

Okay. So that was the favor. And I'm telling you how much they are because I'm gonna make a point so they're like $240 a candle for this favor so I and I had chopsticks with everyone's names or whatever I just made it really pretty and nice whatever so Tamara opens those she goes I have this and again if I had done that at her party it would have been a disaster I would have been blasted so I just feel like there is a double standard in this group and that's how my season went it seems like Gina was one of the people who you have a close relationship with both on and off camera who I think has a lot

more of like an understanding. And there were several moments on the season where it was almost like when other people would bring up things that you had said she was trying to translate or just kind of have them see things from another perspective. How has like kind of your friendship with Gina been? And do you feel like she's kind of like an ally in terms of someone who is trying to help this double standard that seems to exist? I do. And I didn't for a period of time. But I have to say, when I watched the circus episode, the finale episode back, and I saw because obviously I didn't see her doing it that night, but I saw her going around to each of the girls. And especially with Emily, when she said to Emily, you're more aggressive than usual with Heather. Why. Why are you on top of her so much?

I was very appreciative of that. And we are good friends and I care about her. You feel like you have a sense of humor. I mean, I do have a sense of humor. Maybe they're just not funny. Maybe we just have different senses of humor. Sorry, I don't like your jokes. I don't laugh a lot.

Most people's jokes. Right. I was also struck. I feel like that is the meanest thing in the world. Having a group of people sitting around and being like, raise your hand if you think this person has a sense of humor. I was watching that. I was like, that is brutal. It's so rude. But you know what? I also sat there and thought, do you know how much money I made in sitcoms? I mean, that's what bought my first house, which has led to my real estate journey, if you will. And so someone thinks I'm funny. Maybe not those ladies. Someone.

Someone. I did stand up. You did stand up? Briefly. Yeah. Really? Yeah. Do you remember?

You're right. Because you can't say that. And if you've done stand up. Well, let's pull out my IMDB. Definitely best that you didn't say that you so you followed emily on instagram well you didn't follow emily on instagram up until mexico okay so this is what happened when i left the show the first time okay i unfollowed everyone okay because there are people as you probably know who follow that kind of thing so and so

followed so and so heather, Heather followed. All right. So I unfollowed everyone. There was no mute button at that time. If there was, I just would have muted everyone. But I unfollowed everyone because I didn't want to see it. It was like FOMO. Just protecting your mental health. A hundred percent. And we didn't have that catchphrase back then either. And also it's like when you graduate college and you don't follow your sorority Twitter feed anymore. It's like, you know, you move on and you have to take a step back. Yeah. And so I did that. And then I refollowed Tamara because we were friends, friends. And I wanted to see like what her family

was doing and whatnot. And then when I came back to the show, I just decided I wasn't going to follow anyone. I'm going to take it off the table. So it's not a follow, unfollow, didn't follow, whatever. And then they got mad. And I explained that to them. But one of them said on that beautiful van ride, one of them said to me, you don't want to follow us because then we'll get more followers. I don't even know what that means.

I can assure you as someone who has a fairly decent understanding of Instagram that means. I can assure you, as someone who has a fairly decent understanding of Instagram, that no. It's not a thing, right? But also, do you really think I'm sitting at home going, hmm, if I follow them, they may get more followers. I'm not going to do that.

They really think you're so calculated. Well, look at what I said to Shannon. I was like, are you... Now, what I really find so funny is calculated. Well, look at what I said to Shannon. I was like, are you? Now, what I really find so funny is how all these cast members said I was the one talking about Shannon the whole season. Did you notice I was barely with anyone the whole season? They were on boats. They were together here. They were having dinners and lunches. When did I do all of that?

Beats me. Beats me. No, I do. I was busy, you know, with my my kids selling my house moving launching hd network can i ask the obvious question yes why am i on the show yeah oh i've been seriously i you know you you don't seem like you need it certainly not financially uh you have a lot of things wonderful things going on i can't only imagine, this show seems like it's a drain

on one's mental health. It is. It can be. And now you sold your house. You're homeless in the OC. We have a rental. It's a hell of a drive down from LA.

So I'm just like, you know, as a fan of you and the show, we hope you never leave. But as like, a friend, what are you doing?

It's like, what the fuck? Aren't you coming over for dinner or something? Save yourself. Okay, so here was the thing. When they asked me to come back to the show, I laughed. I was like, hell no. I got off well, doing well,

had a podcast for many years, doing all these things, whatever. And I do hope to do scripted again someday. Honestly. Truthfully, and I've said this interviews, but this really, really, really is true. My oldest daughter, one of the twins, had come out as bisexual during the pandemic, and it was shocking and not shocking how she was received. So there was a lot of messages of love and support. And there were also just heartbreaking, heartbreaking messages about parents that were, you know, completely out of touch with their children and vice versa. And

kids that had to like leave home and kids that had taken their own lives and just really horrible stories. And I thought, you know what? This is such a huge platform. I don't need to, to your point, sell anything. We've written enough books. We have products. We've, you know, we're good. But what could I do with this platform that could actually help people? And I thought, well, maybe I can show our normal family and start conversations in other people's families. was because of Max, because she had come out. She had written a book called I'll Give It To You Straightish. She started a podcast. And the things that she would say on the podcast, I would be her guest sometimes and people would call in and she would say, listen, if you don't have a safe space to come out, don't. And it was things that even as a parent, I didn't understand until she started talking about. And what's incredible about these kids is that they're so loving and so accepting. It's their parents that are really

the problem, in my opinion. But I thought maybe we can help this situation. So she and I talked about it. And I'm like, look, would you be willing? You know, your book is coming out. We go back on the show. Can I throw, which I would have thrown anyway, a party for your book launch? And would you be OK filming it? She said yes. She was totally interested in having that conversation to help people. What I didn't realize was my third child, who is gay. I mean, I knew she was gay. But what I didn't realize was that we would be filming, which we were. And there was a scene last year in season 16 where we were gardening. Silly scene. She likes to garden. I'm terrible. Ha ha ha. Fish out of water, Heather. Black thumb. And so we're gardening. And she says to me out of the blue, I think I'm going to take my lesbian flag down. And I said, why? She was, well, I was on TikTok and I posted something and it was in the background. And I said, why? She goes, well, I was on TikTok and I posted something and it was in the background. Someone made a comment. And it just turned into this completely normal mother hey, are you cool with this? Because she was younger. And she was like, do you think it'll help people? And I said, I do. And she goes, yeah, I'm good with it. And it did. And it turned into like such a beautiful thing. So again,

I don't tell my children stories for them, but when they want to talk about it, if that's something they want to explore, that's great. Now, what I can tell you is in the last, you know, couple of years since we've been back on the show, we've been able to do exactly that. And I recently got honored as an ally for from the Human Rights Campaign. I'm the honorary co-chair with Dan Bukatynski for Family Equality Gala this Saturday. I'm doing a collab with Equality Vines, and we're going to do some champagne, some champs together, and some wines and sell them in 100% of the proceeds, 100% goes to family equality. And with what's going on in the country right now, which is very, very scary for so many in the LGBTQI plus community, especially people of of color trans women of color it's so bad

what's going on and if i can help in any way and i truly believe that people with a platform need to speak and it's and so that's what i'm trying to do so if you ask me why i'm here it's that i know there's i've seen like Vicky used to be on the show say that like I'm a fame whore and I just want to be famous. Like I've been famous for a really I think I've been famous as I was 23. I'm not saying like I'm Madonna. I'm just saying like I've been in the public eye for a long time. It's never been about that. Do you like it? I think the kind of fame that I have is nice. I get a good table at the restaurants that we like to go to and people are very nice to me and they come up and they talk about the family,

you know, the show in that respect. But I, you know, I can still live my life. I can walk around by myself. I could drive around by myself. I can, you know, I'm not going to be mobbed anywhere. Which time on the show did you enjoy more, your first run or your return? Like if I having a good time on the show the first time. The first time. What's different? Last year was very difficult. You know, I brought this girl on the show that had sued my husband and I didn't know. That wasn't fun.

And they brought two gals on the show who were very, very nice girls, but really weren't right for the show. And they were only one season on there. It just wasn't the right fit. It didn't gel perfectly. And this year was very difficult. I mean, I sent two kids off to college. I had other things going on with some of my other kids.

I was starting this HD network. I was, you know, moving and selling. There was a lot going on. And I really felt very put upon by the other women. Tamara's apology. What'd you think? What'd you think? Meh.

You thought it was meh? I'm more curious about what you think. I mean, you know, it is like long days. It's edited. Like, do you feel like it was accurately portrayed? Did you feel like it was sincere? I thought it really played back better than i felt it was at the time because when i watched it back i was like oh that was nice

but the thing about tamra and i are that i mean i think at at our core like we have a lot of love and respect for each other but some things really crossed the line this year with the two of us and she and i are planning to i I mean, we've been talking. Do you think she's a bit performative? Like, I mean, aren't we all? Sure, I guess. And, you know, it's part of the job. Certainly you are, you're on the show to make good TV.

But I guess my question is with her coming back on the show, you've known her for a while. You've been friends with her outside of the show. Maybe there is a pressure to come on and make your mark. 100%. Things like that. So do you feel like her desire to come in blazing hot and be said this at the reunion, that wants to be like the top dog or the, I don't need that. This is a community effort. The number one guy? Yeah. That's a Vanderpump reference.

I never needed that. But even still, coming back last year, you want it to be successful, you know, because you're coming back. And so I didn't necessarily need it attributed to me the reason why it was successful. But I am also cognizant that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. Like everyone really needs to be good in order for the show to do well. And so I thought we definitely had more of that this year. But yeah, I mean, performative, yes. I think what was difficult for me this year was I was definitely behind the eight ball in many ways with everyone. And also, I really was reevaluating constantly, kind of to your point, like what is real and what is not. Because I really thought I was a very good,

she will never agree with this, but I thought I was a very, very fucking good friend to Shannon. I did not. I'm the only one that didn't talk about her relationship on camera. And the notion that I was running around to everyone behind cameras, bullshit. What was Shannon's expectations of everyone and how they should have handled it? Because it seemed like she, you know, she could talk about it and she could talk about it with people, but no one else could. Well, that's something that Shannon does. And I said this on the show, but I'm not sure it ever made it. I think it was maybe last year. But Shannon is someone that has historically controlled her narrative. And I remember when when her ex-husband

cheated on her. It had already happened and he had left and come back and they sat at the reunion like nothing was wrong. And I remember Tamara and I look at each other like whoa what do we do with that right like what do you do how is she now i haven't spoken i really really keep the frenemy thing going no i texted her no response i texted her she sent me like the pat response that she sent to everyone yeah and then i sent her another one back checking in and i got nothing but But you know what? That's OK. It's all you can do. Well, she needed me. I mean, I said on the reunion, did you see on the reunion when I said you texted me last week? It was because she needed something. So she she reached out to me twice in the before the DUI in the last month to ask for a favor for two different things. And one of the favors was

the night after she trashed me on Watch What Happens Live. But if she calls me and she says, I need help, or can you please call me? I pick up the phone. That's what I do with my friends. And I said that at the reunion, but to be honest, would all of them pick up the phone for me? I don't know. Who would and who wouldn't? I would hope they all would. I would hope.

But if you had your doubts. I mean, I guess it would be Shannon. No, I think she probably would. I think. But maybe not right away. She's not a very good texter. It's like a text. I need a favor or text.

I need like emergency. Like what emergency like what how how how was it how would you have to phrase it to get a response versus like hey like a favor that didn't come across as urgent i'd probably have to make it urgent yeah i'd have to be urgent make your anxiety go up a little bit yeah can we talk jennifer for a minute yeah i found that to be a really kind of interesting dynamic. Okay. Because I kind of see both sides in the sense that I truly think that, you know, being a good friend to people is sometimes communicating to your friend things they might not want to hear. True.

Looking out for them when they're not necessarily looking out for themselves. Offering tough love, feedback, criticism, certainly graciously and with kindness and not, you're not saying it to hurt their feelings, but I think that at times in friendships is necessary. On the flip side, especially in adult life, like they only do so much and you just don't let an adult be an adult and kind of make their own mistakes. And yeah, it's just kind of fascinating with Jennifer. She, you know, everything we're watching, Yeah, it's just kind of fascinating with Jennifer. She, you know, everything we're watching, her partner seems like a walking red flag. Yes.

I have yet to hear an admirable quality about him. And like, yeah, like he clearly has a reputation that most 40 year old men shouldn't have. Like, it's one thing to be a 24 year old fuck boy. Yeah. Like it's quite the another to have a reputation of like going after married women and breaking up relationships and, and things like that. And then see your friend, you know, leave her marriage for this guy only to be immersed in his, his or her own cheating scandals. And like, you want to look out for your friend, but if your friend doesn't want to help themselves and wants to live in delusion, it's kind of a bit of a messy subject. So like I found that to be a very fascinating storyline. And I guess we're like, how do you balance that out? Like, how did you come to the decision that you came, which correct me if I'm wrong, seemed to

be more on the side of like, Hey, I'm just going to support her and let her live her life and let the chips fall where they may. Yeah. I mean, all good points. All good points. I've had dinner with them. He's very nice to have dinner with. I'm sure he's nice. Tom Sandoval's nice, you know, but like in one of our cases, anyone can be charming. Yes.

Yes. Certainly people like him. I would assume he's charming and good in social settings and one-off situations and generally makes great first impressions. That's how a guy gets a reputation of, you know, sleeping with other people and, you know, you don't get that reputation by not being charming and nice in social settings. It's true. I have another layer to add to that. And by the way, I just want to preface this. If Jen is listening, I love you and I only want the best for you. And this is just an opinion. What I noticed as we were watching

the show now, Jen and I, first of all, Jen and I are great and I adore her. She's kind and she's funny and she's sweet and she's a very loving person. I didn't get to know her very well during the season. And she said it was because I didn't have any interest in her. But the truth was, I was putting out my own fires and we live very far apart. So, I mean, even though we're both in Orange County, we're still like 40 minutes apart. That's not next door where you can like pop down the street. And we didn't see each other very often, except in these group settings.

And in every group setting, she was fighting with Tamara. So it's not really conducive to getting to know someone. But when I watch the show, what I see with Ryan, yes, everything that you're saying is true. All right. two separate things. I'll go back to what you were saying. What I see is a guy who is taking off his shirt on camera all the time. Okay. And who went ring shopping on camera.

That's very sick. I feel like on camera was the operative phrase that you're trying to get across. It is because why? Why does one do something on camera that's not a main character? To make sure that that gets aired. Right. And so, I mean, I think, you know, does he really want, does he want the fame? Is he, you know, putting, you know, because for God to take his shirt off, it's either

you're so ripped and you're just comfortable taking your shirt off and like you just take it off when you normally would take it off or you want to be so yoked and posture in front of the camera yeah well because i've i know some housewives producers i'm currently working with one right now who's worked on previous we used to work on the oc actually actually. Oh, I'll have to have that conversation later. And I remember him telling me, he's like, most of the time, at least in the past,

it was like he had to convince the husbands to be a part of it. They had to like drag them on to be in any scene. So yeah, it's a bit odd when this new guy is finding ways to be a part of the storyline. Right, and it's her first season. It's her big moment. This new guy is finding ways to be a part of the storyline. Right. And it's her first season.

It's her big moment. It's not like a couple that we're familiar with. Like if Terry went to go get something for me, you'd want to see it. Right. Because, you know, Terry. And you're like, what's he getting? Where's he going? Who's he going with?

Why would he do that? He never does it. You know, like whatever. So I so that to me was a bit significant in who he is as a person. Now, I don't know if that's just he thought it was fun. So I don't know if it's necessarily a negative thing, but that adds a layer to it for me. Now, everything that we hear about him, all red flags, none of it's bueno. I wouldn't want my daughter to date him. But at the end of the day, she's a grown woman.

And what I kept coming back to with Tamara is, I get it, and you want the best for your friend, but why are you so mad at her? What did she do to you? Yeah. Yeah, it's almost, you don't have to get hostile. She yelled at Jen every party. And even at the reunion. And even at the reunion. And there was like that crazy you

know hot and cold of like you're terrible i love you we're best friends what's wrong with you that was such a bizarre 10 minutes yeah it's like why did she call her terrible if you really think jen's terrible then why are you lecturing her about her decisions in a relationship like you think he's terrible then it's almost worse when you're back trying to be like i think you're because like as adults you know we can all be reactive and you know we can talk to our therapist they also we go to our child self when you get triggered and things like that but clearly you know she's saying things to hurt you know what i'm saying like sometimes we get mad we say things i'm sorry i didn't mean to say that yada yada but emily did

the same thing this season, too. And that's what's so hard to deal with. It was like that scene they showed that they had not shown previously. But the reunion, they show me and Tamara sitting at this place talking to each other because there was a scene where she went crazy on me. They didn't show. And it was out of nowhere, which is why they didn't show. It didn't really make any sense.

And so we met and she apologized to me and we're going to be good. But then it starts all over again. And that's that's what's very hard to deal with. And I don't know. I don't know why Tamara is like that. And I don't know why Emily is like that. To me, it comes across as it's not necessarily as reactive, but they know what they're saying and what they're doing. And they're doing it to hurt the other person. Yeah, it's not nice. Because they know they'll say it. They know it will hurt the person by saying it. And Jen, you know,

for all her what seems to be poor decisions, she does seem like a sweetheart. She's a nice girl. I like her. She doesn't seem like she's trying to hurt someone deliberately. She's not. She's not. Tamara kind of sometimes does. That's why I said she's an asshole. Yeah. She said I'm a sh not. Tamara kind of sometimes does. That's why I said she's an asshole. She said of the shaman, I have hate in my heart.

You know? But that doesn't mean she's a bad person. I just want to say that too. Well, where do you draw the line, I guess? I don't know. I'll let you know. Well, I'm also curious, like, the role of alcohol, because, you know, especially with Emily's behavior at the HD Network

lunch, like, clearly alcohol played a central role in that in the reunion when tamra was like giving what felt to me like one of the most authentic apologies she was like i'm really sorry i drank way too much this season like how does that kind of play into things for the various i will tell you that people can be assholes without alcohol no one is plied on our show with alcohol maybe we should just pass out edibles you know i did that last alcohol. We should just pass out edibles. I did that last season. Yeah, I did. I passed out edibles last season. And I got everyone stoned this season on the show in Montana.

That was fun. Who's a drunk persona? You know how you were saying, you know, some people are very much mean without the alcohol added. Who's drunk persona is most different to their sober persona? I think everyone's very similar, just heightened. I feel like the most selfish people in this world are often the ones accusing other people of being selfish.

Who on your show accuses other people of being selfish the most? I don't know. But I mean, like, Shannon will tell you how authentic she is. It's like when someone constantly says, to be honest, can I be honest with you? It means you're lying every other time. Yeah, yeah. Can I be honest? Can I be honest with you it means you're lying every other time yeah yeah to you know can

i be honest can i be honest finally wonderful why wasn't taylor at oh yeah yeah why she was in part one yeah like i know but they treated it like it was like a whole like rachel like sheena situation like a restraining order like why why was it like a mini I mean, maybe it just wasn't interesting. She texted me. Oh, this is breaking news. Now, do you ever do a thing where you're looking up your text and you have to make sure you don't like text something? Oh, yeah. Or like you're recording yourself talking. She sent me a perfectly nice text, by the way.

She goes, hi, Heather. This is on Friday. Hi, Heather. I apologize for my part in the conflict we had in our relationship. I've always really liked you and I would really like for us to start fresh. Hope all is great with you and your family. And then on Sunday, she sent me a

picture of myself. Anything else? Just a photo of you? No words. Just a photo. Did she take that photo of you? No. She pulled it off Google? Oh, maybe she did. I don't know. She just said, hey. Did you reply to either of those? Why not?

Because that was a pretty sweet message. Well, you know why? Because you just asked me how many times, right? Yeah. So here's a little like backstory. So we finished filming this season in November, last year, November. It was a year ago. And I, on the group chat, said, hey, let's all have dinner for the holidays and put

together a dinner. And Tamara said, absolutely not. I can't be fake. I am not going. And I went, OK, I respect that because we were arguing. I go, I respect that. But is there a scenario where we could just put our shit aside, break bread, enjoy the holidays together and pick this up in the new year. And she said no. And then Shannon texted and said she was busy with no explanation. OK, so the rest of us all went out. I sat next to Taylor. We had a nice time. Whatever. A couple of nights later, they have another holiday dinner and invited everyone except me. dinner and invited everyone except me. Gina and Emily didn't go because of they had something else to do.

I'm sure they would have gone. But everyone was invited except me. And Taylor posted a photo and wrote holiday dinner. Hashtag dream team. OK, so that was the first thing. And this is after she comes after my IMDb. This was December. This is after on the show. She comes after my IMDb. She comes after my thing. And there was so much more to all that. And I had told her a million times, I'll audition. I'll make a casting tape. Yep. I said

yes every single time. But it was a bullshit thing. And she was just making a story out of it. So whatever. OK, so that was December. And then between December and the reunion, multiple interviews she gave, Watch What Happens Live. The Watch What Happens Live she did that aired right before the reunion, she got on there and said, my career is one and done. Everything I've done is one and done. About you? About me. Oh. And there were so many more things in that.

About me. And there were so many more things in that. So I had said she was anti-female with the way that she spoke to me and the way she denigrated my career. So she sat at the, in part one of the reunion, she sat there and she was like, I have worked so hard for battered women. I go, yeah, that's great. I love what you've done with that. But the truth is putting down another woman's career is anti-female. Going on Watch What Happens Live two days ago and saying everything I did in my career is one and done is anti-female. When I went on there and they asked me about her, I said, when I read with her, I thought she did a great job. I'm so happy she's having another chapter to her life and starting a new career. I think it's great. That's pro-female. Can I push back just a little bit on that? Yeah, go. Not that I know. I mean, not as pro-female, but as just human being, maybe it's just not pro-you. I mean, I guess what I'm saying, it's just like, if I criticize another man or

criticize a woman for like, you know, we watch reality TV on the show and we're breaking down like silliness and hell, we watch this show, right people get in fights people get along i mean if if someone's just mean to you and you happen to be a female is it fair to say that they're not pro-female jimmy just not pro you i thought well that's a very good point but i thought the act of her doing that and saying that was anti-female great point but shut the fuck up. Yeah. Man. Okay, man. Straight man. But I'll tell you something else.

I said at the reunion, they didn't show this. They asked me why I was so triggered about the whole Taylor thing in the first place. And this is why. So I was an actress for years. I had four kids in seven years, took a step back, did pilots and whatnot, whatever. But I was living in Orange County. It was like times were different. There weren't that many, couldn't create content like you could now, you know, you were, you were out. And so ever since I came on this show,

it was a matter of like the first season I was on, Alexis Bellino said, she's not an actress. Angelina Jolie's an actress. Then there was this whole thing with Malibu country where there was a part that anytime something gets brought up of me as an actress, it goes south. So from the moment Taylor said to me, hey, would you help me with this part I'm doing? I thought, fuck, I don't know why, but I am going to get hosed on this whole situation. So when I went over to her house to help her with the script, they invited this acting coach over who's someone I knew. And she's a lovely girl, Lauren Jackson. She was on the show a couple of times and she she was on Broadway. She's really

talented. She came over. So Taylor starts going, oh, there's a part, Heather, for you. And I thought, no, no, no, no. We're making this is about you. This is not about me, because in my mind, I'm like, how am I going to get fucked by this? If I make it, if I say yes immediately, now I make it about me. And now it's, oh, it's not enough for Taylor to have a part. Now Heather wants to be on this. Swoops in. Swoops in.

All about Eve. Taken apart. I just, I just didn't want any part of it. That makes sense. Watching it back, did you see where the 1900s comment Tamara made? It was so mean. Because when she tried to explain it, she was like,

I was saying 1900s and you laughed about it. They were cackling. Yeah, that bugged me about watching it because they were clearly being mean. Yeah. Yes. And whatever.

We've all been mean. We've all been at dinner and maybe like just talked and gossiped about someone that we have to apologize. But for someone who won't shut up about how authentic she is

right like she wants to keep it real why don't you just own the fact that you were just being fucking mean it's also it's fucking on tape we're watching it we see it like but isn't it amazing they can see something on tape some of them and still not own up to it yeah they spin it and like and

I think for me, it was so interesting because I was like, oh, now I know exactly kind of like the nuances with the ways that they kind of like distort, lie or handle situations where it's like you can see that was like any human,

I think, could watch that and be like, that was a bitchy comment. Like that was a dig. You were clearly and it was like a snarky thing. Are you inherently a horrible, horrific person for saying it? No, but it was a shitty thing to say.

It was not nice. And then she can go back and be like, well, the transcript of what I said, I was just confused. And it is like this real roadmap. Look at the snuffleupagus comment. So we're sitting there. We are in a water park. Emily's talking about her hair, right? She takes her sunglasses out and her hair is like big and wiring crazy. And she goes, oh, I got to do something with this. I go, yeah, you kind of look like a snuffleupagus. I go, but in a good way. And then I even said further, I go, it's not your best look. It's not your worst. We were joking, obviously. And she turned that into a whole thing about her weight, about it's a mammoth. It's a thing. I mean, I mean. But also, I mean, I feel like it would have been different if

Tamara would have said that like if you were sitting there at lunch and you heard the 1900s joke like if you were there I think

because it was behind your back it made it so much worse well you thought Snuffleupagus was bad listen it's one of those things it's like

we all have the right to be triggered and to be sensitive about a topic so I don't think we get to tell someone she kept saying to me, see, I will say something to you and you should just let it go. And so I said, OK, I'll let it go. But then she wouldn't let it go.

Yeah. I mean, I guess it goes both ways. But like, you know, if we say something and someone says it hurts my feelings, I don't think we get to debate with them whether they should be. Right. That's why I apologize. But that wasn't enough. Yeah.

But it seems like it was sometimes never enough enough like almost coming from a place of like wanting to call out hypocrisy where both of you know that you have these different approaches to things so then you're trying to be like okay if that's her vibe to like make a bunch of jokes like i want to jump in and kind of meet her there and then emily is like well if you're going to be sensitive about stuff i get to be sensitive about stuff there's a lot of that where it's just like everyone can joke. But when it's about them, then it's like completely off limits. But yeah, it's like there's different than being self-deprecating amongst your friends about yourself and them doing it for you. Yes.

Yes, exactly. Yeah. Especially on something that's important to you. I mean, my acting career, I never said I was Meryl Streep, but it's important. You're passionate about it. Of course I am. And I trained for many years and I worked for a lot of years. And like I was saying earlier in this conversation, I would like to do it again. And I would think Emily out of everyone would understand that because they always some of them talk about her not being a real lawyer. And so that's very important to her. So I guess are you also are you here to say that you're just not interested in a friendship with Taylor? It's not that it's that I just I mean, I don't like apologies of convenience. And I feel like there was a time and a place to let it go.

I think I don't know. The two weeks before the reunion, you know, she was getting hammered outside of Craig's and saying it's going to be the dirtiest reunion ever. And like I said, going to watch what happens live and saying nasty things. I think she was going to go, thought it was going to go a lot differently than it did. Yeah. And I don't know. It seems to me, you know, why are you texting me now? Are you worried about your position on the show? Are you, you know, you just don't find it to be sincere.

And I don't know. You don't want to be friends with her. I don't. But why does it need? Does it need a response? No, it doesn't need a response. I guess it's just more. Are you interested in mending the fences or not?

I don't think there's any wrong answer. If I were in your position, I could totally relate to being like, you know what? I tried. We're just not, we're not vibing. We'll work together. If we're in the same room, I'll be respectful, but I don't want to pretend to try to be your friend. You hurt my feelings. You cross the line. I totally get that. Or on the flip side, you could just, you know, if, if there are fences to mend, then. I just don't know. I feel, I feel like I just don't know at I feel like I just don't know. At the finale party, you know, she came up to me and went crazy on me because I passed out in my room last night. And none of them came and checked on me. I mean, what if I had hit my head, aspirated?

Why not? Why not? Why not respond and say like something like Nick says, you know, you're in the driver's seat now. You kind of have the power. Get together for like drinks and just be honest with her about like how this message was received. I mean, like it feels like

of an apology out of convenience. And I just, I have my reasons for doubts. But at the same time, I wanted to sit down with you because is there a friendship to mend? I don't have a lot of time. Okay.

That's just not a priority. I have four kids and 12 jobs and I drive myself now. So I don't get a lot of time. Okay. I have four kids and 12 jobs and I drive myself now, so I don't get a lot of stuff done in the car. Yeah. So we're just not that interested. And I just feel like I appreciate that she reached out. The timing is odd and we've been sort of up and down for so long. I have nothing against her. I think she's a nice girl, but I, you know, it's like with everyone and the things we've even talked about today, it's like you start going, well, so we're good now. But does that mean we're good now and not in five minutes?

Because I don't want to feel like I'm walking on eggshells. It's like you thought y'all were good at your holiday dinner. And then she went 100 percent. That was that catty meanness. I mean, why post that if you're going to have a meal and not invite someone, don't post it. If you're posting it, it's so I see it. They might as well have tagged you. Right, right.

Literally. Literally. That was, now that I hear the backstory, that was meant for you. There was an audience of one, and it was Heather DeRoe. Yep, 100%, and I saw it. They might as well just put you on close friends as the only one. I guess the other thing is, you know, the reunion's over. I appreciate that she reached out. I just it's time for me to take a little step back.

You mentioned that you guys are renovating your new dream home. Yeah. Beverly Hills that you kind of alluded to it being maybe some sort of historical it's not historical it's sort of iconic so it's um well historical you can't you know mess with yeah so maybe not maybe not officially historical but like cool so that we bought um dino de laurentis's estate oh do you know that is the deis. Yes. So Dino De Laurentiis was a very famous producer. King Kong. King Kong. Say less. I didn't know any of the other ones.

And his wife, Martha, also producer, Hannibal, whatnot. And the two people that owned the house before them were also huge producers. One was Lana Turner, actress and her husband. And so anyway, the stories, like if these walls could talk,

you know, Cary Grant's been in the kitchen. They wrote Hannibal in the living room. Like crazy. I can't even imagine. And of course, his granddaughter's Giada De Laurentiis, chef. And so it's such an incredible piece of property in the house. You can't actually knock it down. So this is the biggest remodel I've ever done.

I've never done, I mean, I've done like 12 houses and ground up and all that. But this kind of remodel where there's so many question marks, I'm excited about. Many of the Bravo fans have speculated about the possibility, not that you are a Beverly Hills homeowner, not, you know, I guess you're renting in the OC, but like, would it make sense? Because also just the way, you know, it almost seems like, again, maybe you are

better than everyone, I don't know, but like, or you're just not as close with these gals as they seem to be with each other, you know, maybe minus Gina, but maybe Beverly Hills, and some would argue, the most iconic of the some would Gina, but maybe Beverly Hills. And some would argue the most iconic of the... Some would argue. But any possibility, or have you even thought of that?

Have you been approached? Or is it just fan speculation? So, I mean, well, look, first of all, I just want to say about my current cast. I really, I do love them. And I do feel a bond with all of them. And I do have relations. I mean, except for like, obviously, Taylor and I texting. We've never been close like that. But the rest of them, I really do have solid relationships with. Obviously, I haven't been speaking to Shannon. So let me take that back.

Emily, Tamara, Gina and Jen, the four of them, I have solid relationships with. And I am I and I am happy about those solid relationships. We still have a place in Orange County. My husband's practice is in Orange County. And who knows, you know, maybe we will buy another, maybe a beach house. I don't know. We'll I love being in Beverly Hills. And we lived up here for a long time. So it's really fun to be back and I've reconnected with a lot of people. The answer is, I mean, never say never. Never say never. What if you could be a housewife for both? The drama in your life. I have no comment.

We're rolling out that marinade. It's time for texting office hours. You down to give some one relationship advice, Heather? All right. When we come time for texting office hours. You down to give someone relationship advice, Heather? Alright, when we come back after texting office hours, we'll wrap up with Heather, have some burning questions about in what ways is she misunderstood? And then she can generously let us know

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We're trying to get listeners here. If we just say, oh, we're two dudes that talk about Bravo, people are gonna get tired of it already. We need some oomph. All right, then fine. Let's try to do it with your voice. Bravo, bros. Good job. How's it going? Good. How are you? Good. What's your name? I'm Ava. I'm 30, and I'm debating tattling on my boyfriend to his mom for cheating on me so he gets off my lease. That's one of the better headlines we've had in a while. First of all, I'm sorry that this happened to you.

Thank you. Where do you want to start? How you found out? What's the current situation? Is he currently your boyfriend? Where are we at? No. Okay.

How'd you find out? He is definitely my ex. So I was out with my friends one night a few weeks ago and waiting for him to get home from work. He told me he was home. I closed out, started driving home, told him I was on the way. I was about five minutes away from home and I got two texts from him, two audio messages. I was able to listen to one of them before he unsent both of them. And it was very clearly not meant for me. Ooh. How long were y'all together? Almost two years. Okay. What did, uh, what did it say? I only was able to listen to it once before he unsent it,

but it said something to the effect of bend over and let daddy fill you with cum. Oh, my gosh. First of all, I'm so glad that my husband knows nothing about technology. He would never be able to unsend it. Gotcha, bitch. That is insane. Oh, wow. Wow. I'm sorry. We're not laughing. Yeah, we're laughing out of the shared pain. Oh, it's okay. How did you address it with him? I called him immediately and said, what the fuck was that? And he didn't really say anything. So I got home a few minutes later, walked into my apartment that he is somewhat living in and

asked him, what the fuck was that? he said i'm not gonna lie i've been talking to another girl and i said as if he like deserves a pat on the back not gonna lie as we yeah yeah i'm aware uh and by talking does he mean bending her over and billing her. Do you know? He told me that he had never met her in person. So he has denied any physical cheating. Correct. What was he owning up to this to like tell you and get out or to try to win you back and tell you it was no big deal? Yeah.

Did he try to save the relationship? No. He did what I told him to do. And he started getting his stuff. And I was like, why aren't you apologizing? And he said, well, I am sorry. And I was like, well, if I have to prompt you, then it's not very genuine. And at one point I was kind of just screaming at him. And at one point he said, well, do you just want to sit down and talk? And I told him that his opportunity for that had passed. And then I slapped him across the face and he left. Okay. Well, we hate the violence. It felt good. But wait, I'm confused. You said you were walking into what was your apartment

that he was living in, but you said he's on the lease. So explain that. Yeah. So he is in the military. He is going through training for basically what's their special forces. And he's living essentially in the barracks on base right now. And which is just bunk beds with a whole bunch of other dudes. So he was essentially living with me because he had no other place to really keep his things and all of that. So he would come home to my apartment every night. But he wasn't making very much money.

So he didn't really contribute to the lease at all. We actually just put him on the lease for the sake of getting another parking pass so he wouldn't have to pay for parking every time he came. So I guess what is the dilemma? Because it sounds like he's agreeing to leave. Where are we getting to a point where you're not getting cooperation? Because that sounds like you're not getting cooperation from him. And also you've lived there for two years. How long is the lease? It goes through April. There's really no benefit

to getting him off the lease. It's really just a way of me being able to be petty. Okay. Yes. All right. Well, at least we're working with the truth now. I'm pro-tattle too.

You're pro-tattle? Yeah. Who's pro-tattle? I mean, I don't... It's really up to you. There's no wrong answer. I mean, I'm not not pro-tattle. Yeah. What's it going to do, though? His mother's going to go, oh, honey, what happened? And he's going to go, oh, she was a bitch. She did this to me. She did that to me. I had to have comfort somewhere. I'm in the military. Someone I need to love and attention. And she go, oh, my poor son. What what a horrible girl i'm glad you're gone heather makes an excellent point i have had in a couple situations now i would never do what your partner did and i like to think i've always been a pretty rock solid partner in my relationships true but

even the ones that failed like i felt like i did my best but certainly when relationships don't work out you know feelings are hurt and i've had and more than one out, you know, feelings are hurt. And I've had, and more than one occasion because, you know, my mom, she welcomes any partner I've ever had with open arms. She's easy to get along with. My past partners have taken advantage and by advantage of men, like they have built a relationship with my mom, you know, she's made it easy and there's a closeness. And I've always prided myself on having the type of parents that, while love me, aren't afraid to tell me if I'm being an asshole or to, you know, they can criticize me. And even sometimes in relationships, like they have no problem taking my partner's side in a situation

where if they feel like, hey, I don't know if I agree with you, I might agree with her. might agree with her and nevertheless and relationships that i've ended or have ended i've had exes reach out to my mom like to vent about like me and my mom fucking hated it and it was just like weird it's one thing i'm nice but like what do you think i'm gonna do talk shit about my son you know um so heather makes a good point you don't owe this guy anything and if you can be if you want to be petty you certainly have earned the right to be petty given what he did and what you're going through but I would temper your expectations how it's going to make you feel afterwards that's a good point because the truth is if you're looking to feel better or feel vindicated in some way now all you're doing because the

mother's never going to be on your side per nick's comment um and all you're doing is letting the ex know that you give a shit yeah that's a good point i think the only reason i would and the only reason i want to is because i think that everyone thinks that he's such a great guy and I just kind of want there to be some kind of accountability for him in some way. Because even a few days afterwards, he was texting me citing other reasons for why we broke up and I had to clarify, no, we broke up. I dumped you because you cheated on me. It's really just to make myself feel better. It gets to mine and Heather's point. I don't know how much you will feel better nevertheless i don't know if you're gonna feel bad either so it's really kind of up to you and if i guess what i'm saying it sounds like this is

something that you want to send which is basically like hey by the way in case you weren't aware the reasons why me and your son broke up were because he sent me a voice note where he said. Oh, that's good. And just. Why don't you just send her the voice note? You don't have it anymore. She doesn't have it anymore. She hasn't sent it.

But I do think you could send that. Will she believe it? I think it's so vulgar. How could you not? Yeah. You have to actually write what he said. It's very shocking. It's very shocking.

It just also. You think I should say what he said? Yep. Absolutely. You can't send it unless you say after unless you actually you have to be specific in detail because otherwise he will spin it and then and then you can you know you can kind of uh sugarcoat it with uh some sort of like i know you raised him to be better than no not even that you're just like yeah well yeah you

can make her feel yes compliment her for sure i know you raised him to be better but like you know you could throw in and like i know i'm not perfect and we had our own problems yada yada but like just so you know that is why we're no longer together because i you know i wanted to fight or blah blah i wanted to work on us or whatever but you know you could do that i i just back to what Heather said, I don't know how good that's going to make you feel. And it will keep you invested in him longer than you otherwise should, because not only will you, you're not going to get the response that you want from her, almost certainly. And then you will be emotionally and mentally invested and wondering how she,

or if she confronted him, et cetera, et cetera. So you sending it will keep you mentally and emotionally invested in this relationship much longer than if you didn't send it. So that's just more like a FYI. Did you ask him what the second voice memo said? No, I didn't. I couldn't do it. The first was an F.

Probably unnecessary. Yeah. Not sure he probably would have told her. That's true. Yeah, he probably would have been like, and I love you, Ava. That was for. Probably unnecessary. Yeah. Not sure he probably would have told her. That's true. Yeah. He probably would have been like, and I love you, Ava. Yeah. And I love my girlfriend and I shouldn't see you anymore.

So I guess. I didn't even try to cover it up. Based on that, what do you think you're going to do? I don't know. I'm kind of hesitant to tell her what he actually said. My initial thought was to say something to the effect of, because it's vulgar. But your whole goal,

you're claiming to reach out to his mom is to let her know exactly who her son is. Don't do it. Yeah. I mean, Heather's not wrong. But like you're an adult and you're going to do what you're going to do. But I'm just trying to give you honest feedback of what your expectations should be. Right. And then you're going to do what you're going to do, but I'm just trying to give you honest feedback of what your expectations

should be. Right. And then you're going to talk about it with all your friends for the next three weeks. Did she get it? What'd she think? Did she tell him? And you're just going to be invested in him.

And that's, that's time and energy. You won't get back. That is something. My initial thought was to say something to the effect of like, Hey, I know you're aware of what's going on i'm reaching out to you because i'm not comfortable reaching out to him i draw a hard line at cheating but i'm trying to get him off my knees you're being passive that's not you're not just being sincere or you're being passive aggressive you're lying

about your intent so if you're gonna be petty fucking be petty reach out and just feel like you're fucking this is what he did have a nice life bye you know don't pretend this whole lease thing because no because if you do that you're gonna get caught up in a lie and you're it's gonna come across as manipulative it's gonna come across as passive aggressive and you'll lose credibility well i do need to get him off my lease and they told me that i could either reach out to him or figure out some other way to get him to come in and sign the paper so you though like short of you so it's over in april you're gonna pay it he's not gonna pay it you're gonna live there it doesn't sound like you're worried about him showing up and

refusing to leave you'll have an extra parking spot for friends or a new boyfriend if you're gonna be messy at least do it right and don't to the messy yeah seriously commit to it or don't do it you know but don't protect him from his own words yeah you're setting yourself up for an l by trying to be kind of machiavellian and like well i'm not gonna say this but i'll sayian and like, well, I'm not going to say this, but I'll say this. And like, you know, because it's going to come across as manipulative. He doesn't deserve your energy any longer. And that is just a fact. And if you do it, you will be giving him that energy. Yeah, he's a douche. Go find someone else. The truth is he was not invested in this relationship. And because if he was and he just screwed up and cheated on you, he would have begged your forgiveness. But he didn't. He was very

willing to walk away and tried to blame other things and said, oh, you know, all this other stuff. I just feel like I'm like as your friend, I'm sad that you're investing so much emotional time and space on this person that doesn't want to be in a relationship with you. Yeah. And I'm sure it hurts the ego to have him not to respond the way he is. And, you know, it makes totally sense why you want to hurt him. It's just not going to go the way you hope. Or, yeah. Are you in therapy? Like what kind of support do you have right now? Because I find sometimes when I'm like the most caught up in like karma's a bitch and I am the enforcer of it. Like it's usually because on the other side, there's some really like shitty feelings. And so I'm curious for you,

like in terms of like the shitty feelings that come up from this kind of like betrayal and a breakup of a relationship that's been two years, like what support support system do you have surrounding you right now? I actually started therapy for the first time last week. That's amazing. Focus on that. Have you asked your therapist what they what they think you should do and not about this specific situation uh she knows all the other things but she doesn't know that i'm considering texting his mom okay well you're welcome to run it by her as well but uh i feel

pretty confident about our answer you You can do it. It's just, you'll probably be disappointed at the outcome. Yeah. I think it's just like you said, I just kind of want to hurt him. And for his, the fact that he's not, he's trying to blame it on other things and not accepting the fact that, no, we broke up because of this. But the reality is, I don't know. I just, he's just not gonna he's literally not gonna be in your life going forward and two years from now he'll be an afterthought and you're healing you're gonna focus on that and if you do the work you know you just won't give a shit you know and you will look back on this time is like just days you wasted investing in his drama and his bullshit. Like, I know that's not how it

feels now, but I can assure you in the future, that's how you will look back on this. Like future you is going to say, girl, why'd you bother? Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah. I don't think that texting his mom, what he said is going to make me feel any better. And like, listen, if, if all we do is like moms love their sons unconditionally, so what, you know, she won't be the last mom who gives them a mulligan even for cheating on his girlfriend. She's not going to stop loving them. You know what I'm saying? And so, you know, she'll be speaking. I'm not mad. I'm just disappointed.

Like that's the point. But you also won't be there when she does. If she were to talk to him about it, you wouldn't be able to hear that conversation anyway and you'll spend all the days wondering how it went which again will keep you invested in him that's true i just need to move on yes yeah close the chapter that's what i needed to hear all right we're sorry honestly i really wanted to text her it it would have been fun yeah fuck that guy and then we could add a follow up call what she's at you know like but we're actually here to help so heather kept us honest all right uh we will check in with you in about a month or so with an update on that dating life

and see if you actually listen to our advice. And hopefully there are one or two dates in there. I don't really care if they go well or not, you know? I mean, I hope they do for your sake, but hey, you're dating, have low expectations. I just mean that because you just don't want to like put all your eggs in one basket and then you go on two bad dates and obviously you start like thinking back about this guy and start making excuses for why somehow it was your fault, you know, shit like that, just because the dating world is fucking brutal out there but just remember it only takes one shavings make a pile and take some time you're right thank you well good luck we'll we'll be checking in bye bye uh what's the craziest uh parenting story that you like what's the craziest situation have you ever been disappointing your

kids what am i what am i trying to ask yes yeah something that your kids did i totally respect if you don't share the details i but now here we go okay i was in our house and the housekeeper was walking downstairs from upstairs and she was holding three like outdoor champagne flutes which i would never have upstairs right Right. And so I go, where'd you get those? And she looked at me, I go, it's all right. Where'd you get them? She goes, oh, they were in Nikki's room. My son, my oldest son, because my son and his twin sister really didn't drink. I have to preface this. They really didn't drink in high school very much, which always worried me because I didn't want them to go to college and be unprepared, you know. And so the only thing my son liked is he liked ice wine. So ice wine.

And I have like a large collection of ice wine. And it's like this very sweet dessert wine. So, you know, every once in a while, you know, pandemic, whatever it was, you know, sip a little ice wine, whatever. Anyway, so she's coming down with these three champagne flutes and she goes, they were in Nikki's room. So I go, Nikki comes running in. I go, what is that? He goes, oh my gosh, mom, I'm so sorry. He goes, you know, I had a couple of kids over the other night. We had a little ice wine night and I should have told you no one drove, whatever, blah, blah, blah. And I go, I am very disappointed in you. He was like, seriously? And I go, yes.

I go, that is not the glass you use for ice wine. That is a champagne flute. Don't embarrass us like that. I took him into the butler's kitchen there and I pulled out all of the glasses and gave him a tutorial. This is red wine. This is champagne. This is port. This is champagne.

Have I taught you? Nothing. Nothing. My kids are really good. In what ways do you feel the most misunderstood? I think the tone and timber of my voice and my vocabulary makes people think that I am pretentious. Although I have to tell you, in my normal life off the show, i don't have those problems no i don't i have lots

of lovely friends and i let the record show that heather drove herself here i did parked on the street did paid for the meter by the way yeah probably running uh walked a bit i did she also did her own makeup and did her own makeup yes and you're own makeup. Yes. And you're a very warm in person. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah, I think that is the misconception about me for housewives. But not like normally, like when I do interviews or, you know, if I'm on a set or doing a different kind of job or whatever it is, I don't get that just on the show. But I think that would be it. I would think that there are certain times, you know, they call me fancy pants, which also lends itself to like this fancy superior or whatever. But it was funny when I first started on the show and I remember they would say, oh, she's so smart. She's so smart. I remember looking at Andy once and he kind of being like, I mean, I'm not in Mensa. Like what's the bar here?

But you do have class. Well, thank you. You know, I don't know. I think the misconception would be that, like you were saying before, that I think I'm better than someone, which I don't. I do. I think you're better. You think I'm better. Let the record show. Nick thinks I'm better. I'm just being messy, but maybe. You just seem to be a little bit more emotionally regulated. You schedule your breakdowns. I do schedule my- Oh my God. Can we talk about, thank you, Amanda. I'm watching the reunion and I thought what was a joke that you had the scheduled breakdown and then like moments later, you're like, I'm not going to cry. I have my scheduled breakdown in two days, which sounds like, I was like, does this chick

actually like schedule in her breakdown? Okay. Well, full disclosure. It's not like I've done that previously, but this is what happened. Full disclosure, it's not like I've done that previously, but this is what happened. So Terry has this episode and in a matter of like eight days, he has this episode. He has it repaired. I have to go to New York. It comes out in the meat like all this stuff happened.

And I was still in shock. And I really and I had to deal with like there was just stuff going on with the family and we were moving again. And the reunion was coming. I mean, it was a lot all at the same time. And I was concerned because remember how you were talking about your dad in that moment? You thought here he's going to like die. So when I was standing over Terry, so I was telling you the beginning of the story where I was telling he was like chewing and making these crazy sounds. I stood over him and I said, spit out your food because I was afraid he was going to choke. And while I was standing over him, like my life flashed before my eyes, his life, our life together.

I saw him dead. I saw him as a vegetable. I saw him like all these things. And it was all so real. And I dealt with the whole thing and we got through it. real and I dealt with the whole thing and we got through it. But I felt like if I allowed myself to feel it in a deep, in that kind of way that I'm not sure I was going to stop crying. And I couldn't, I had too much that I had to do and I had to be on top of him, his care, my family, the kid, you know, moving this one back in a car.

Like there was like just a lot going on. And so I thought, you know what? The day after the reunion, we're going to Mexico because I always like plan a trip right after to just decompress and whatever. So I said, I'm going to do it then. I'm going to wait till then. And I did. How'd it go?

It wasn't as like intense as I almost had to like force myself to make it happen. But I wanted to make sure I wasn't suppressing it so much that it would just bubble up sometimes later. So there's this singer, Richard Marks, do you know who he is? Yeah. So he's a good friend of mine.

Been on the show. He's a good friend of mine. And he's got this song called turn off the night. And it's not like one of his gazillion hits, but it's this really phenomenal song. And I don't even know how I discovered it. He's played it sometimes in concerts for me when I'm there. But it's this gorgeous, gorgeous song. And it's about. I mean, he's told sure if he wrote it about someone who had died or someone who broke up or whatever, but it's about this person not being in your life anymore. And if I could just turn off the night, I'll be okay. And so whenever I hear this song, do you ever, this is a weird statement, but do you ever hear a song and think it reminds you of a memory you've never had?

Like a beach song that reminds you of, you know, some beautiful surfing beach adventure that you, I don't know, you've never had that? Like Deja Vu? Kind of, yeah. So that song has always done that for me. And I don't know, like, if I always thought that song was like, you know, how I'm going to feel someday when, like, if Terry goes, if he goes before me, you know, we're 10 years apart, like, how I'll feel someday. But I don't know. It's always like felt something to me. And I'm telling you that if it was a movie while I was standing over Terry in that moment, that song was playing.

So we go to Mexico and I decide to go for a run on the beach. And it's literally like, what am I thinking? It's like 90 degrees. It's so hot. And I go for a run on the beach and I stop at this place that I always stop at. There's this rock there. And I put on the song like on a loop and I just sat there and I felt it and I cried and I had a moment and I probably sat there for 10, 15 minutes and then I almost died of dehydration on the way back. But I did it. I had the moment. And again, it wasn't like as debilitating as it could have been or I thought it maybe

needed to be. But I think by then some of it had processed through. But I did want to like take it. Okay. Thanks for sharing. So close things up. Yes. I'll give you a chance to say something nice about all your cast.

Okay. Can you just go through the ladies and tell us how they might be misunderstood? Like a quality that you've seen in them that maybe the audience doesn't yet appreciate about them. I think Jen is seen as weak and she's not. She's very strong. I think Taylor's seen as ditzy and she's not. She's a smart girl. Taylor's seen as ditzy and she's not. She's a smart girl. I think Emily's seen as aggressive. And although she can be, she's also very sensitive and sweet and a really great mom. as crazy, you know, like vacation Shannon, this Shannon, that Shannon, crazy costume lady and all

that. But she's really, she's very normal. And that's what was so hard for me, the dichotomy of like those two personalities. But she is. And, you know, she she is great advice. She can have very sage advice, especially when talking about parenting and friendships. If you had to have a hope for Shannon, what would it be? she can be mean that there that that is there but she's also very joyful and fun and laughs easily and um i think the misconception about gina is that um she's poor which i i don't understand why yeah like they always like rag on her her house and and things like that. And and talk about her because she's young. And I'm telling you, this girl is one of the strongest women I've ever met. And the way she pulled herself out of a bad situation and got her life together with three children and started a new career. She's a real estate agent now. She's killing it, by the way.

And she's a fantastic mom and she's a really solid friend. She's got a really beautiful family. Her parents are terrific and her boyfriend's fantastic. And I just think she, I mean, probably out of everyone, she's solid. Since you're here, you've been so generous can you i mean and if you don't know but what's going on with bethany do you know her very well i've known her for many years and all i can i don't know her that well i've always been just like a fan but like recently she's been popping off and i don't get it like is she just is it a lack of attention i don't know

i mean i don't know what's going on i haven't really listened to all of it, to be honest with you. I have known her for a long time. And I think that, you know, Bethany, really what she does best is try to help the underserved and the underdog. Yeah, but I know that's why she seems to be positioning herself, but I don't see it that way. It seems like she's using it as a cover story to drive her own personal agenda and show me someone on television who's not yeah just i mean well i don't know maybe there's a lot of people i don't know but she seems so transparent with you know bravo uses people let me use rachel you know i really i really i swear you, I'm not following it.

But I, but the only thing I will say is, because we were talking about alcohol use before, I have heard people talking about how Bravo treats us and, you know, this whole thing. And I'm telling you this, I have had nothing but a fantastic experience. I mean, I really have. I've always felt safe. I've always felt taken care of. I have never felt plied with alcohol. And as a matter of fact, on some of the trips this year, as far as I'm concerned, there wasn't enough. Well, thank you for answering. I was curious. I don't know if you knew her or not, but

I don't really understand. I don't get her angle other than just maybe attention. But it's the unproblematic queen look at her poised no comment do we have any other questions for Heather before we let her go I think we're good alright well thank you so much

for having me this was fun so much fun thank you so much for coming so much fun and congratulations thank you do we have a name

we do but you're not saying it don't tell people they're gonna tell you someone they knew in second grade that was sweaty with the name

no oh yeah okay that's what people do oh i knew a jennifer she smelled she was so sweaty sweaty and smelly somebody won't talk to you anymore so guess who doesn't get to meet my kid not me i'll tell you the name is gorgeous no No, not you. But I'm saying someone said that to me. Thank you for being such a generous guest, Heather. Thanks for having me. So much fun. Can you please let my audience know where to find you, all your projects, anything you want to promote? You can just go to HeatherDubrow.com and find everything.

You can follow me on Instagram and TikTok at Heather Dubrow. You can go follow the HD Network. And what else? Oh, and my podcast Let's Talk with Heather Dubrow I know where you listen to podcasts every Thursday. Well then it's probably dropped today if you're out there why don't you go listen to Heather

Alright well thanks for listening guys as always don't forget to send us those questions for all things texting, office hours, Ask Nick, mediation you know all the above send those questions into asknick at thev vile files.com and please include your age when you do yeah yeah next week the wonderful elizabeth wagmeister returned to the vile files to break down blah blah's blind golden bachelor bachelor paradise yeah yeah well

the wedding's dropping i don't know we think think maybe the reunions dropping. Not sure. But if it does, we'll recap it. We have a really fun episode for you next week on Going Deeper. Love is blind style. You'll love that for more burning questions. It's just a really keep jam packed month continues for y'all. Thanks for listening. Subscribe.

Tell your friends all that fun stuff. Go back and check out all the amazing other episodes we dropped. Bye.