The Viall Files - E654 Reality Recap with Emily Longeretta - An SNL Love Story, Love is Blind, Golden Bachelor, and BIP

Episode Date: October 17, 2023

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Reality Recap Edition! Today we are joined by Variety's Emily Longeretta to talk about all things reality TV. First, we talk about Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce going official with their hand-holding New York debut, including surprise SNL appearances. We also talk about Jada Pinkett Smith making headlines. Then, we dive into Love is Blind Season 5 Reunion. Then, we discuss Bachelor in Paradise - from Kat being a f*ckboy to Sam’s stomach issues. Finally, we talk about Golden Bachelor and some drama happening between the Golden Ladies.  “This is a perfect example of when people confuse weakness for goodness.”  Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes. Join us for our new LIVE show on Thursdays at 9PM ET/6PM PT on Amp, available in the Apple app store. Android User? Listen here: https://www.onamp.com/   To Order Nick’s Book Go To: http://www.viallfiles.com  If you would like to get some texting advice on Office Hours send an email to [e-mail] with “Texting Office Hours” in the subject line! To advertise on the show, contact [e-mail] or visit https://www.advertisecast.com/TheViallFiles  THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Penrose Hill - Give your palate what it really wants with Firstleaf. Go to https://www.tryfirstleaf.com/VIALL to sign up and you’ll get your first SIX hand-curated bottles for just $44.95.   Sundays For Dogs - Get 35% off your first order of Sundays. Go to https://www.SundaysForDogs.com/VIALL or use code VIALL at checkout. Nutrafol - Take the first step to visibly thicker, healthier hair. For a limited time, Nutrafol is offering our listeners ten dollars off your first month’s subscription and free shipping when you go to https://www.Nutrafol.com and enter the promo code THEVIALLFILES. Vessi Footwear - Thanks again Vessi! Go to https://www.vessi.com/VIALL and get 15% off your first order! Free shipping to CA, US, AUS, NZ, JP, TW, KR, SGP. Wooga - June needs your help, detective! Download June’s Journey for free today on iOS and Android. Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @emilylongeretta @alison.vandam @liffordthebigreddog@dereklanerussell @genevievegoodman   

you're crazy what's going on everybody welcome back to a new and exciting episode of the vile files reality recap edition i'm your host nick joined by the household Genevieve, Amanda, Allie, and Derek are all with us in studio. Our pop culture correspondent, Natalie Joy, is in Savannah, Georgia, planning a wedding that

we're a part of. A part of? The stars of? Yeah. Part of. Involved with. We went to a lovely wedding our friends uh matt king and patricia now yeah is it now matt and patricia king now yeah lovely wedding in birmingham alabama have you ever been oh and our our special guest today oops emily longoretta that i that i got it right i got it right it right. I always panic when I have it.

There's a meaty last name, even though it's. No, I do the same thing. But I'm always like, it's exactly how it looks. So you're all good. Emily, friend of show, is also with Variety magazine. I know you were expecting Elizabeth because we all told you about it. I know. Elizabeth couldn't be with us today.

But Emily, graciously and like a hero, stepped in. I did. There is no replacement for Elizabeth. But she's getting married in like five days. So, you know, she's a little busy. Is her wedding in five days? It's this weekend. We're heading to Cabo. Wow.

Damn. I know, guys. I know. She put too much on her plate. Much too much, as she does. But we're glad to have Emily also with Variety. You know, I'm glad that we are building out at the Vile Files our Variety repertoire. Absolutely.

That's what we're here to do. Of pop culture and reality TV lovers. So many of us. You've been covering pop culture and reality TV for how long? 10 years. 10 years. Yeah. It's been a long time.

I watch a lot of TV. We are excited to get into all of it. We got some Love is Blind reunion. We got Golden Bachelor. I cried again. Oh, same. I cried every episode so far. Yeah, cried again i was by myself watching it just me and jeff just oh my god i have to be but we do have a little bit of drama with golden bachelor

which i know kind of is like like come on unnecessary i don't want it i don't want it save it for paradise but then paradise we finally we finally, I was finally invested in this episode. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Things really picked up. Yeah. On the beach. Before we get into any of that, should we discuss my fight with Tom Sandoval?

We have to, right? I was kind of annoyed with the- Yeah, what was the call? Well, I don't know what you all thought watching it. Who won? Not Tom. It's tough because you told us so many times about it. You'd walked us through us so many times about it you'd walk just like what do you want me to say

i know we've already talked about the clip what is the clip if you were watching it for the first time it the ending felt very confusing you know he's like he's like number four get back up like come on pull yourself together and then all of a sudden you two are like walking away from each other and he's like he wins he loses because like i had never been in a fight before i was like this is gonna be interesting had tom ever been in a fight before i would assume so i think so he he would he talked a lot about fights he was like it was a huge shocker and apparently he was a high school wrestler oh which made a lot of sense because he kept trying to like pick me up so there's that part of there's that time where like it looks like we're tripping yeah and he falls and i work it's because he's trying to like

kind of pick me up we had actually three different rounds so they make it seem like it's one round and like when he fell and i was punching him they stopped and let him get back up but when when the fight ended i had thought i i was like in my head. I'm like, holy shit, I won this thing because like I didn't think he punched me at all. Yeah, because like the ones he went for, he doesn't make good contact. I didn't make a ton of good contact either because they when we started the fight, they were like, we don't want you boxing. We don't want you dancing or we just want you throwing as many punches at each other's heads as possible. Okay. I was like, okay.

Sounds great. So that's all we're doing is just like fucking throwing haymakers. I'm like, I got it. I definitely won. And then he says Tom's number. And I'm like, what the fuck? Yeah, this was confusing to watch. I would agree.

And then when we got done fighting, because Tom ended up having to fight Jack too, because we had an odd number. So they made Tom fight Jack and then Tom's nose really starts bleeding because you can kind of see it bleeding at the it's right at the end of the fight with uh him and I and then when we get done with everything Billy is like if you're surprised I can't do a British accent but he's like if you're surprised by the outcome and like oh my God. Pretty good, right? He's like, this is all about getting back up or some bullshit like that. So, like, if you got him back up. And I'm like.

Well, you let him get back up. So, like, you want me to just get my. Like, should I just stand there, let him punch me so I can get back up? And then you'll say I won? What the fuck? Although I did find out after we got done is like the DS is like, they didn't really honestly know anything about us. Like it wasn't like the producers were like,

this is Tom Sandoval and here's his story. And here's Nick and his, his story. They learned about us through filming the show. That's probably a good thing. I don't think they knew about the world political, political implications of Tomomas and of all and a fight and yeah and rewarding him for getting back up you're like look at this strong man look

at what he can do uh anyways yeah that was that that was that did you so there were there were three different rounds and it was sort of so it wasn't like wasn't like rounds per se it was like they would just you know you know they were he was like if we tell you to stop stop you know they gave us some rules during the beginning and so yeah Tom ducked and like tripped and then like I didn't fall

and he fell down so I started punching him and they're like stop and then they let him get back up and then they would we would go again and so they broke us up a couple times tom chip kept trying to wrestle you know he kept trying to like go for my feet and i was like dude i'm tall than you you're not gonna be able to do that um i'm gonna need to see the unedited but i was released the footage please yeah it's not exactly a couple of barbarians. Like, you know, we weren't a couple of cage fighters.

I was like tired. At the end, I was like, just can we be done? I was so fucking tired. I didn't feel anything. And he never really got a shot in my face or anything like that. Were you sore the next day? No. I didn't feel anything.

I was just tired. I was sore from the boat shit that we did. And I was like carrying that boat shit that we did and i was like carrying carrying that boat yeah for two fucking miles it was just because you're you're you're throwing all these punches for i don't know it was probably honestly 90 seconds total maybe a little bit longer i don't know i was just like at the end that's my only feeling was beat that of being pure exhaustion. That was it. That's the only thing I felt. But it was nice that Tom had a dig.

I did give him a bloody nose. So there's that. I had that going for me. And somehow he got the win. Yeah. Maybe he needed it. You know what? Some people just need a win.

Yeah. After you've been beating him up on the internet. Maybe he needed this. Yeah. There you go. Yeah. He needed to get back up. Yeah.

He needed to get back up. A strong man, back up a strong man that tom sandoval i don't know uh i'm sure uh i'm sure america will have some fun with it celebrity boxing fights are like a thing now yeah this would be a great way for us to i mean that is a big that's a popular thing so here you go it's a huge popular thing it's really really especially in the boxing Yeah, especially in like the reality world. A lot of reality people have gotten into it. Like no one knows who our actual boxers are. They're being like, Paul Logan. Logan Paul.

Whatever the fuck. I'm sure his fans would tell me he's a real boxer now. I don't know. And the guy from Love Island. What? Tommy Fury from Love Island. His brother or half brother is like a real

fucking boxer and I think actually that Tommy guy was a boxer before he was a reality TV star Tyson Fury Bane Fury

one of them I think he actually is a boxer like his brother is a world champion you know who else is big and strong

and so so so so so handsome and probably an amazing friend and lover no no david beckham chris ross oh jason kelsey okay i love jason kelsey too though okay yeah yeah they made a little cameo yeah at snl and in new york city well he played on thursday night so he had the weekend off yeah so that's why he was like i'm ready. He was like, I'm ready, guys.

I'm here. And she was there. She also made a cameo. Oh, yes. Of course, she was at the game. They had that hilarious commercial before. She didn't go to the game, did she? Yes, she was.

She went to the game. She was at the game. She was sitting with Donna. Yep. And Brittany Mahomes. And they did this commercial beforehand. They all went to... So they went to the game Thursday.

Thursday, yes. Yes. Taylor went to the game Thursday, but Taylor didn't go. But he only went to the game Sunday. Yes. Okay, thank. Taylor went to the game Thursday, but Taylor didn't go. But he only went to the game Sunday. Yes. Okay, thank you. Yeah, yeah. What game are we talking about?

His brother played in New York at New York. Right, on Sunday. So he went to his brother's game. And everyone was waiting for her to show up, but she did not. Taylor did not show up. Yeah. I mean, how many games do you want Taylor to go to in one single week? Which is funny because she's an Eagles fan, like her whole life.

Because she's from Pennsylvania. Yeah. So it's a little shirt hanging from your door. I mean, before Travis, she was. Yeah. So it's a little I mean, before Travis, she was, do you see her differently now? I mean, I do. I'm a Giants fan. I do.

No, but I just, I just, but so I was like, if you're going to go to a game, that's the one to go to. Go to your team. Yeah. I mean, how funny

would it have been if she got down there in some Eagles gear? That'd be kind of great. I would love that. I would have loved to see Taylor's fandom outside of her. I would love that. I would have loved to see Taylor's fandom outside of her fandom for her new boyfriend.

Is there a lack of Taylor fandom in the world? No, her own fandom for her. Oh, yes. I want to see what she's passionate about. Of course. Other than Travis. It's a good question. That is a good question.

What was she on Tumblr going off about before she blew up? Imagine like an Eagles Tumblr page. That's like what it is. It's like all just Eagles stuff that she's pinned on her page. She's writing like fanfic. I wonder, it would be amazing if you found like a Taylor Swift burner Twitter account and it's just all this like toxic football fan takes.

Or she's like, fuck Andy Reid, who was the former coach back in the day. Back to like McNabb. She's like posting videos of McNabb's mom for Campbell's before Donna Kelsey was a Campbell's woman. Yeah, real toxic football text of her passion.

That would be kind of hilarious. Well, would she have been in the Michael Vick era? I mean, she would certainly alive, yeah. I remember being really scandalized. I mean, she might have

been like a teenager. Yeah, well, it was a scandal. It was like, I feel like as a kid learning like people do that. That is so messed up. It was awful, yeah. By the time he played for the Eagles, he

was on the redemption arc of acknowledging his wrongdoings and making amends. Yeah, you know, maybe him and Tom actually could have a sort of communion conversation about it. It's a great circle to throw them both into.

Yeah, so are they like official? They're official. I mean, they were out all over New York this weekend holding hands. And it's like great circle to throw them both into yeah so are they like official they're official i mean they were out all over new york this weekend holding hands and it's like real real if that's what you want to believe you don't i'm a little in between i think they're leaning into it a lot now i think that even if it's not even if it was just like hey let's go on a date and see if there's anything here now they're like this is pretty beneficial for both of us so let's there's something here i mean i've heard from mutual friends, there's a genuine interest. I'm glad.

I hope so. I like both of them. So I think it's just a lot. I think it's, they're kind of throwing it. You think it's too much? I think it's too much. But like,

what should they do differently? I don't think she needs to go to every game. She's been to. Three of, since they started. Why can't she go to his games? I'm not saying she can't go to his games, but it's becoming such a thing now that it's, I'm not saying she can't go to his games, but it's becoming such a thing now that it's...

I'm not saying she can't go. I mean, I would go. If I got free tickets to every game, I would go, of course. But I don't know. I just feel like it's kind of being thrown down our throats now. And that's not all on us. Elizabeth and I actually did this deep dive into it. Are you saying that more of as a football fan or as a Taylor Swift fan?

I think more of as a football fan. It's like a little bit. Elizabeth and I and our colleague Angelique wrote something for Variety about like how the NFL is kind of like capitalizing off of this. And they are. And they admitted that like money is money. Viewership is viewership. And it's going way up and especially female viewers.

But as a football fan, I'm not here to see who's in the stands. As someone who would pay and has paid a lot of money to see Taylor, I'm all for it. But I just do you feel it's that line that really taking anything away from the game, though? I think making like Michael Strahan say like puns about Taylor Swift is a little bit taking away. Like it's a little silly to me. No, it doesn't feel silly to you. Michael Strahan is like the morning show. I mean, as a a giant i have to say

michael strahan as the example but okay and just in general like any and he's the halftime show for fox i mean i guess but i think it's just in general yeah i don't know i i'm a diehard fan it's not taking anything away from my ability to like watch the packers i mean i guess if i were a cheese fan right i guess that might be a little different. Maybe a little bit. But at the same time, I would as a Chiefs fan, I think I would like my team being like the talk of the town more than anything. That's true. My mom is a Chiefs fan and she's thrilled.

Good. It's like they're getting so much recognition. I love it. I'm so happy for them. You know, Taylor, it's my understanding, doesn't have the most. She has a very restricted social life being Taylor Swift. Of course. Doesn't get to just go out as much. And, you know, this is her ability to kind of go out under like some protection while all. Yes. I don't know. No, I can see that. I can see that. And then I think them both showing up on SNL is kind of like,

all right, we see the media, we see all this and we're okay with it so i guess that is a that's a nice thing to do i think it asked you know sure if all they're always guilty of saying sure we'll show up i don't know i like it i mean i like both of them and they both seem to be happy so at the end of the day it's all that matters if it doesn't work out how do you predict it ends uh i think she'll i think she'll be over it you think she'll be over it yeah i think right now it's too much and it's gonna be she's gonna feel that it's too much he's a charming guy yeah i mean he's so handsome so charming seems so nice i don't know there's no way that taylor could be like love struck they're totally i mean she's been love struck many times what if she called her mom she's like this is the one i think this is the one i mean imagine the album like i'm so i'm here for that

but i'm definitely excited for that but if they break up imagine that album well but how long do you think they need a date before we get a real good album because she's written and chanted after meeting someone one night. I was like, she's fine. She's probably done. She is fine. It's probably done. Oh, really? Oh, yes. Oh, 100%. One of her most, the most successful song off that. Imagine the pressure of dating someone.

I know. Who's like, you just like, you can't. Their version, literally, is the one everyone's going to believe. I mean, oh, God. It's got to be such a weird thing and to that point I feel like when I was growing up and she had that kind of bullshit reputation for

being like oh my god she's always dating new people and writing songs about them like it seemed like the media was throwing so much shade at her that it was kind of a reclamatory way of her to be like well here's my side of the story like these people like there's a reason I go through these breakups and it's because usually something bad happens and it's not always my fault kind of thing.

Right. But now it's like because she has this empire. Drunk on power. It must be hard for her because it's like when you're so powerful, it's really hard

to say anything that's not I'm so happy and lucky. She's done an amazing job of staying grounded. Totally. I used to be annoyed when I was younger,

I would be annoyed that like I was like every single album is about a new guy. Like this is insane insane and now as i've gotten older i'm like well that's what happens you date and her outlet is writing about it so it's like what's wrong with that there's nothing wrong with that totally totally some other people who are dating married separated it's unclear jada pinkett smith and will smith jada has been gotten a lot of media attention I don't know she's gotten attention

she has asked for attention it seems like her publicist is pitching her out there out there she's like on the

she's on Dax Shepard's podcast she's on Jay Shetty's podcast that's a weekend after she's on the Today Show the Today Show People Magazine

doing an expose she's out there just ripping her family I'm like do I need to buy the book now I don't know her family need to buy the book yeah i don't know if i need to buy her book because i feel like i've seen i've heard so much already i've seen the internet refer to it as the uh pay attention to me to her

why are you talking so much shit about your family yeah you know i just i understand people get divorced i get relationships don't work out I understand being in a public relationship has its additional challenges. But it just reeks of, I don't understand. First, you didn't tell anyone that you weren't married for seven years. And you were pretending to be. And pretending to be. And your explanation for that is, we didn't really know how to address it to the public. I get bachelor nation couples.

It's like, I think they're broken up, but they haven't announced it because, you know, it can be a challenge. It's a, you're a little bit afraid. You're a little afraid of how people are going to react. You're not sure. Are we sure we want to do this? You know, let's maybe wait and see if we maybe can work it out. You know, a couple months.

Right. I hear you there. Seven years. No. After seven years, after a year, you're staying together for alternative reasons. Yeah. And I can only assume those reasons are, at least for her sake, to ride his coattails. Like, he's Will Smith.

Yeah. He doesn't need this. He was very much the star of that Fab Leaf. And she had no problem showing up to all these events. Like, on his arm, arm hugging him kissing him on a carpet the best acting Jada has ever done and now that he is persona non grata it's like fuck

Will Smith he sucks I didn't want to we're not together not only were you not married I don't even want to get married in the first place oh by the way Tupac had alopecia why are we stopping on Tupac he's like the man's been dead I don't know how many years and now

Like there's some spilling tea About Tupac yeah I'm shocked Her book doesn't also have that Tupac is alive I'm sure I'm sure it's in there there's something In there that's gonna be shocking about Tupac I saw me saying Tupac faked his death to get away from Jada Pink But it's just so It's the way she's doing it. It's like she's trying to,

I don't, how do you see it, Emily? Yeah, I think it's a publicity grab, which we've all seen many, many times when people are promoting a book, but it's just not a good look. I think anyone who's even a fan of her, it just doesn't look good that you're going out there everywhere. You're not talking about it one time. You're talking about it over and over and over again. And then you're literally just slamming your husband and your marriage and the whole belief of marriage after for so long kind of doing the opposite. I mean, she brought him that, that like kind of reputation of that, that like, oh, because I was the wife who brought him on to like talk about our affair. But she was. And but he was OK. But also he agreed to that.

No one's forcing Will Smith to do anything. That's that's true. And like this at the end of the day is that was good publicity for him also. They are also a business. Yeah. You have to I try to put like the marriage side apart because they both are in the business. Their kids are in the business. They are constantly thinking.

How do we think Will feels about this? Probably not thrilled. Right? I wouldn't be thrilled. I mean, listen, he made his own choices at the Oscars. Yeah. But it makes the Oscar situation all that more bizarre. Well, and that's what she said.

She said she was most surprised hearing him call her his wife. We haven't used that word in years. But that was Will being like, no, I still am the husband here, which he isn't. Because, well, I don't know. I guess he is. Publicly, that's how they play. They play the role. And Jada gave like Will a look of like at the time we all seen the look she gave Will.

And again, that's Will's responsibility. We're not blaming Jada for Will's actions. But to cut the cord and act like you were some innocent bystander through that whole thing doesn't pass the smell test. No, it's not great. It doesn't look great on either of them. I think it sucks for their family also. Like, that's a really crappy thing for their kids to have to deal with. More than anything, that's what I thought about all weekend.

It's just like, Natalie and I are about to have a kid yeah and we work really hard on our relationship hopefully we continue to do so and our relationship lasts through the years jada is not the first person to talk ill of a past partner but like i just think it's so shitty but is your past partner it's like i think they're still that was i also was confused yeah because you're to your point yeah maybe you're not married but you're still seem that was, I also was confused. Yeah. Because you're, to your point, yeah. Maybe you're not married, but you're still seeming to be a partnership in business or a family. Yeah, 100%.

An alliance, like, together. It feels like. But, and, like, you're still together all the time. I mean, they're seen together. They go to events together. It's not just like, oh, we're cordial for our kids, which we've seen a ton, which is amazing. It's, no, they are, they come off as a couple.

They are publicly, like, holding hands, kissing, doing all these things in public. Yeah. And I just I can't imagine. I don't ever want my children to hear me talk shit about their mom publicly or vice versa ever. As a child of divorce. And like I will say both my parents are remarried. All four of them are good friends. And they never once, even though as I've gotten older, I'm like, wow, you're very impressive. Never once talk crap about each other in front of me or my sister. I actually saw something not too long ago, and I probably should have looked it up because I'm going to butcher it. But it was basically a discussion about the damage you can do to your children by talking shit about your respective partners in front of them. And if you paint your ex, you know, husband or wife in a bad light to your kids, the psychological damage you can do on

their perspective of dating in the future is significant. And I thought that was really interesting. I wish I had that to blame on my issues of dating. I mean, parents fuck us up in so many ways. But yeah, it's just like, but when you think about it, it's true how it kind of warps your perspective of what you think a partner should or shouldn't be and your value towards that. And it's not just Jada talking about it in front of her kids, like with her friends and their kids are in the next room. It's like you're publicly going on a microphone multiple times and telling everybody all these things about your relationship. Yeah. I don't see what these things about your relationship. Yeah. I don't see what the point of that is. Yeah. Yeah.

It's very telling. I have the New York Times article pulled up and she describes becoming an urban nun of sorts and talking about meditation, reading texts like the Quran or the Bible. She abstains from sex, alcohol, violent entertainment and unnecessary spending. And I feel like I would argue that her little media tour is violent entertainment. I think there's Will's. Yeah, certainly a case to be made. Does that mean she doesn't watch any of Will's movies?

The Oscars was violent entertainment. Yeah. She did not abstain from that. It's just I do think these conversations, like if they existed in a more like healthy, mature way, could be really interesting. And talking about like the ways that like a marriage could ebb and flow to accommodate various like changing stages of life, especially for a celebrity couple where there is just like such a unique dynamic around like their professional life and their children and all the things that they have going on. Like it makes sense to have need to still maintain this alliance in a certain capacity. And so I, I feel like there's a version of this where it could have been a really healthy exploration of like, what are these things that we assume to be presets in a marriage that actually are a little bit more like customizable with good communication,

but instead it feels like a very one-sided. Yeah. Kind of communication. It just comes across as very self-righteous. Yeah. And also I'm like, why are we picking on Tupac, man?

It's fun to think he just chose to have that shiny, beautiful bald head. Let the man rest in peace. It's been a long time. Tupac had a hell of a piece of show. I was like, okay. Maybe don't out his medical problems, okay? I'm not the only one who deals with hair problems. Tupac did, too. I know it's uh it's weird it's just it's very strange and it's a lot i will say as a

like someone in the media it's a lot we see these people we see people go on book tours all the time i mean people do it and talk about you know the revelations inside the book and all that and i love it reading a book about that but it's i i don't need it shoved down my throat i don't need you to do 10 stops on the tour. Clearly, Jada did not sign an NDA when she married Wilson. Clearly not. No, no, no, no. Poor guy.

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All right, Emily, what were your thoughts on this season? I feel like this season, the reunion was more exciting than a lot of the season, in my opinion. Really? Yeah. I liked to see everybody back together in one room and people facing each other, especially JP and Taylor. But I felt like this season was because there were so few couples followed. There was a little bit of a lull for me.

Yeah. I thought the season itself was pretty messy. I enjoyed the mess. I mean, I love the mess. I actually quite enjoyed this season more than I guess I did the reunion. Interesting. Although, because we did have a chance to talk with Izzy before. So I felt like I, i felt like i you know

did you know a lot of the stuff i feel like that was also the fear and that's also the fear of always when there's a reunion that films a year and a half after the season wraps that a lot of people have already read a lot of stuff online i didn't because i wanted to enjoy it in the reunion but well we had a chance to talk with izzy we have a part two with izzy this thursday for going deeper uh that gets into you know some of the things they talked about the reunion a little bit more um a little bit more the nuance of him and uh stacy nice i'm interested they kind of skipped over yeah it felt like him and stacy really weren't trying to re-litigate anything like they were just trying to be like

cool calm collected we're maturing over it, they came to the reunion kind of like, I don't know. It feels like it was like Stacey, like, hey, we're going to be nice to each other. She was calling the shots. Anyway, Stacey wasn't here when we interviewed Izzy. So we relitigated that relationship. When he was with us, you could tell he was trying to still maintain what seemed to be a mutual agreement they had. Right. But without the benefit of Stacey here, we tried to be a mutual agreement they had. Right.

But without the benefit of Stacey here, we tried to dig a little deeper. Yeah. I'm excited to hear this. The way Izzy tells it on our episode is a little, I thought, a little more harsh than the way they told it at the reunion, especially when they got together like a week later. Yeah. I was a little bit confused by how they talked about that because it seemed very much like, oh they saw each other

he thought it was going to be something and she didn't so he left and then they didn't see each other for a year. So like when we interviewed Izzy for part one it was at, you know, it was at a time where he was maybe the villain of the season, I suppose. Did any of your opinions towards Izzy change

as the season progressed or at least evolved leading up to when he was left at the altar? I never thought he was the villain of the season. Okay. And I always viewed him pretty positively. Really? Yeah. You did not. No, I was more neutral.

I watched the show, especially more and more now. What I love about Love is Blind, as I've said, I love that they don't have heroes and villains. They have flawed characters, all of them, every single one. Everyone you see, they show red flags and green flags. They show moments of, oh, wow, that's really nice. Then there's some moments of like, ooh, it's a little toxic, you know? And I love that about Love is Blind. However, I do think people who watch the show for the most part still love to pick a

side yeah you know if you identify with milton you will find a way to agree with milton if you identify with uh alia you know taylor you know whoever you see yourself in right or if you see you're a former partner in someone else it's's the opposite. You know, it's the opposite. And, you know, Izzy definitely has played the role of the, I guess, the fuck boy. Yeah. You know, with the whole drawer, the trophy drawer. The lost and found. He had some bad beats, you know,

but I really thought that he, towards the end, to me was a guy who, for better or worse, he was very much all in this experiment i do find it really interesting it's not the first time but it was emphasized to me i guess watching the reunion just the way nick and vanessa keep referring to it as the experiment and litigating who was more like it's the whole like between Lydia and Uche of like, should they? That was a real interesting when the show was like when Nick and Vanessa outed the show by saying, hey, actually, it was the producers who asked Lydia and Uche at first not to tell

anyone to preserve the experiment. at first, not to tell anyone, to preserve the experiment. And for all the, not that I want to get into it all that much, but there's a lot of noise coming out of Love is Blind's cast over the past couple of seasons. But I think the show smartly, and I don't know how they argue about this in court, if it ever gets to court, but the fact that they refer to it as an experiment. Yes. Never a reality show. Never a reality show. Never a reality show.

Because in an experiment, you are subjecting yourselves to very different type of standards. An experiment has a controlled environment. And in a controlled environment, there's information that is controlled by definition. There are scenes that are controlled by definition for all the things that some cast might say, this is fucked up and blah, blah, blah. Love is Bond is like, you literally signed up for an experiment. We've been transparent about our experiment. I've spoken a lot to the executive producer of the show who created this experiment. And we've talked a lot about that exactly, about how the cast is 1000% aware when they sign up what this is and

what this entails. I will say over the years, I've spoken to him since this. I mean, he also created Married at First Sight. So I've spoken to him for many years and he's never once said reality show. He's always said experiment, like never, never, never when talking about Love is Blind. But I was on an accident. No, absolutely not. It's one. It's definitely not an accident. But it's also what you were saying about the Nick and Vanessa bringing up that the producers

asked them not to say. I asked him about that, too, in that entire process, because he had said that we specifically pulled them first. We suggested Lydia and Uche leave. We both told them, you can't stay here. That's what Chris was saying. Yeah. That you have to, we can't do this because this goes against the entire experiment.

And they were basically both begged to stay. And they were like, okay, but you can't tell your partners until it gets very, very serious. You can't tell anybody else. I kind of get it. I get it. Yeah. I don't think they should be punished for it. I don't think they should have had to leave.

It's not their fault or is it? And I get not telling other people until a certain point because they wanted those people to be influenced by the experiment and the environment first before they were influenced by Lydia and Uchi. I wonder if Uchi said to Aaliyah, we just didn't see it, like the producers didn't

let me tell you because that would have, to me, Aaliyah was so upset that nothing was ever said for so long. Like, I feel like he probably did say that and they just cut, which they would cut it. That would make sense to cut. But I was like, oh, does that change things? Does it change things for you? No, no. But I mean, Millen could get past it, uj couldn't but i think that's a bigger uj problem than a leah problem yeah with uj not showing up and then trying to do all these other like he's trying to have his own reunion show by like it's like when a candidate won't participate in a debate and it's like okay yeah like that's your choice but yeah it's a little silly it's kind of so wait you're you're gonna go on

these podcasts and have these kind of one-sided conversations you know there's no one there to like tell the story like jp and taylor both showed up and they hadn't seen each other since that moment in the getaways which surprised me that it's been that long that's crazy that's insane especially with apparently how small hou is because they all hang out. Right. You know, I think that's a brilliant thing about this show is that because they live in the same place, like the opportunity to have some kind of like situationship or like something that is very much akin to modern dating after the show is really available. So we get all of the like kind of authentic messiness of modern dating because they're in the same place. Yeah.

Yeah. I also I felt like, you know, kind of closing the Uche thread. I was it did feel like Aaliyah was kind of the primary person who missed out the most because of the lack of like controls in the experiment not working. And I and I and it seems like it was a lot of Lydia's conversation with Aaliyah that truly kind of like ruined the experimental element of like Lydia oversharing certain details about Uche. Not even just like that she dated him, but just, you know, like wild turkey and he drives a Tesla and stuff like that. I was shocked by how much I bought Lydia's explanation. Me too. Well, because. Right? She's consistent. i was like oh that kind of makes sense okay when she said i didn't read the room i was like yeah no you didn't well

although that you did bring me to okay two takes and you reminded me of what one is overall i was like that that explanation made sense. You know, and her explanation being is like, listen, yeah, we both knew we were applying for the show and then there was zero conversation. So I didn't know for sure if he was or wasn't coming on. And that makes sense. Like, what is she supposed to like check in with a guy she's no longer dating? Like she knew that it was a consideration and that's that's it right i wonder if the three months before when they hooked up in january right before filming if that was when they talked about it maybe yeah yeah and then like so i do kind of

buy that yeah and then you find out that the show didn't let them tell their respective partners so lydia's not able to tell and then she gets the green light from the show to tell and her explanation is kind of like well at that point i thought i got the green light to just be an open book and i wanted to fucking share everything with my now bestie friend right and she's way closer with alia at the time than she is anyone else so it's like this weird thing where and then she recognized that she didn't read the room yeah i got it it kind of makes sense the only wrench thrown in is that alia said which we didn't see on the show she said i told her i asked her to stop multiple times and she didn't yeah that she

said a boundary she did like we didn't see that which is the reading of the room part right and but i will say the fact that lydia she brought response was more, I didn't read the room. And then for the next 15 minutes, she's explaining why it's not her fault, which is very Lydia. Yeah. Because she could have said, I was trying to be a good friend. And then she could have spent 10 minutes about talking about why she wasn't reading the room and where she wanted to hold herself accountable. You know, the approach is very obvious.

Like, Lydia doesn't like being wrong. No, absolutely not. So she threw out, I didn't read the room, and then explained it. But it kind of made sense to me. I don't think she showed up like Uchi's trying to convince the world

that she was obsessed with him and showed up to like... Stalk him there. Stalk him and ruin the... the like that is a psychotic very narcissistic point of view to why you think lydia showed up from uchi's point of view like it's all about him it's like come on though and though i'd wished like she'd maybe addressed like i i think maybe there could have been a bit more of a direct apology to alia although maybe that's something they've had outside of the show. It made sense to me that like she wasn't really talking to Aaliyah.

She was talking to the Uche who wasn't there because he did present such a specific, creepy, obsessive, like my crazy ex-girlfriend version of her. So it made a lot of sense that she would want to set the record straight. But I think it came at the expense of a tiny bit more of accountability towards being like, hey, I like I'm sorry. Like, I do see how i get where uche is upset because i from his point of view i guarantee you he blames lydia for his whole experience falling through the cracks yeah and he blames lydia for alia's i guess reaction to him

and not wanting to be in the relationship but like what he doesn't get it's like it's not that dude it's everything else that we're seeing the way that't get, it's like it's not that, dude. It's everything else that we're seeing. The way that Milton said it, like he's the one that's obsessed with our relationship. Yeah. And that's very evident. The fact that he's still Uche was still texting Milton after being left on read was really telling to me of like he's trying to make it sound like Lydia is the stalker who's viewing everyone's Instagram stories.

You're the one having a one sided conversation, my man. Yeah. Also, there's something wrong with looking at people's Instagram stories. I'm just going to say that. I don't think there's anything wrong with what she did. If that if that she was doing that. You guys are like, no, you're definitely over blew it. But like he sold this whole narrative that in the context of his story, it sounded shady.

Yes, of course. The way he was describing it. When you think about it, first of all, who's looking at all the people who view their Instagram stories? That's weird. Yeah, definitely weird. And then who's doing it with a close enough lens to be like, wait, I don't recognize that person.

And then how did they all come together to be like, who was the first person to be like, guys, someone that I don't know is looking at my Instagram stories. Right. That is weird. Yeah, that's's weird how did that come together but i don't look at my instagram stories and be like i don't know these three people let's see how i connect how i connect yeah but like to jen's point it's like uche would have had to notify all these friends whoever these friends are that he kept talking about and let them know that he dated lydia and then the all these friends had to reach out to him and like this person's keep in mind it wasn't like lydia the star from love is

blind at the time it was like this random girl yeah named lydia as far as they were concerned at the time yeah now looking at it i'm like when he was saying it i was like oh that does sound creepy and now i'm like yeah now that we are kind of playing it back he is outing himself for regardless of what you think lydia is doing he is outing himself for being obsessive over this because you have to be obsessive to pay attention to some of the facts that he is using to litigate his campaign of lydia being the stalker who showed up to ruin uche's love is blind experience which is so funny because lydia is the only one that like got a happy ending Of Lydia being the stalker who showed up to ruin Uche's love is blind experience. Which is so funny because Lydia is the only one that got a happy ending.

The only one. Totally. And her and Millen seemed so happy. I love them. Oh my gosh. And I was so not buying it at the beginning. Millen is so mature. He's the most mature 24 year old I've ever seen.

Oh yeah. Yes. Except. Well, nothing's changed. I guess after a while. 24 year old I've ever seen. Oh yeah. Yes. Except, well, nothing's changed. I guess after a while, it was like, he looked so good that that moment where he was like,

let me talk to you about my wife's character. Like I was melting. It was like, it was like that. Like that was such a, every woman wants. What a moment. What a moment for him. What a moment for Lydia.

Really more of a moment for him. He looks like an absolute king, but Milton is, you know what? Probably 25, 26. Now more of a moment for him. He looks like an absolute king. But Milton is, you know, what, probably 25, 26 now. He still talks like a guy who just hasn't dealt with any real disappointment yet. Right. In a sense where it's very convenient to be able to say to someone, even like Uche, who, you know, we've discussed all his problems with him, is saying, like, everything you have to say about her is inconsequential to me. It's like, maybe.

I don't know. Like we've all gotten feedback about someone we chose to ignore only to find out that we should have listened. I am not saying that we should listen to Uche about Lydia and just there is a level of naivete with Milton that allows him to have this kind of unspeakable or just like this profound sense of like loyalty yeah and trust and positivity and just openness and it's like okay man like

like world hasn't gotten you down yet yeah that's that's true. And also, he was the only one in this experiment that did have someone from Lydia's, like, personally, like, you have someone from your partner's past, whether you want to believe it or not, I'd probably hear that person out, because I'd be so curious. You don't know this person. You literally don't know this person at all. On the flip side, though, there is an element of Milton where, I guess, nowadays, I think we maybe have to go back to a little bit of like caution of the wind. We're out there looking at everyone's red flags and green flags and trying to understand like how you're going to fuck me over in five years and shit like that, where, listen, there's no guarantees with love and relationships. It's a messy, messy world.

And sometimes we just have to go give the old college try and just have your persons back until they're not your person anymore. Right. Like you need faith. Yeah. Because if you don't have it, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy. And I think it was also really telling that Lydia has such a good relationship with Milton's parents, who, at least as it was presented to us on the show, who knows? They could have had a really strong connection and they only showed kind of the most kind of moments where they were expressing concerns or questioning her.

But from what we saw, it seemed like his parents were critical and were like juries out on whether this thing works. And so the fact that Lydia has earned their trust and developed such a strong relationship, I think is very significant because while Milton might not have that experience, like his parents certainly do. And they clearly are looking out for him, have his best interests at heart and are rightfully suspicious of a new person. And so it seems like that's a really big vote of confidence that she's been able to develop

a relationship. Yeah. He really has impressed everyone. Every America. Yeah. 100% impressed America. Nick and Vanessa seemed thrilled with him. They were so happy with him, but they also seemed thrilled with Chris until they weren't.

Oh, my God. I was like when I when I was like, I I'm sorry he didn't break up with her? This is a perfect example of how people often mistake weakness for goodness

and niceness I think people will see a weak person and often they see that weak person being more demure and more gentle and they go weakness and they see that as gentleness and they think, well, gentleness is good, so then weakness must be good. And Chris, I'm not saying he's a bad guy, but he is just another person with some more red flags and chris throughout a season we saw a guy who just sweet and nice and demure and we thought he must be just an angel an absolute

fucking angel and what he is is just a weak guy he's just weak he's a who admitted you know which that was him showing a little bit of strength good for him you know uh and i'm not saying he's a weak person but like he has definitely demonstrated some. We all have at times, but the inability to have tough conversations with someone knowing that you're going to hurt their feelings is weakness. And people do it all the time. Tom Sandoval showed weakness by handling Scandival the way he did. It's just weakness. When we we say i don't tell you because i don't want to upset you that's you being a weak person and it's has so much more to do with you because as much as you can in your head frame as i don't want to tell you news that would be

upsetting like chris said i don't like telling people news they don't want to hear well no one does nobody does and also you are not well every once in a while there's someone who's like let me do it and you're always like, oh, you good? I'm a psycho. But it's so much more of you not willing to like step into the discomfort of having to be honest with someone than it is protecting someone. Because you can't like the truth is the truth. It has already happened. The fact of the matter is that you are not in love with Johnny.

You do not care for her. You do not want to continue a relationship. You have found someone else like that is the truth. You not telling her does not make that any less of the truth. It just makes you unwilling to do the right thing and like kind of take it head on and deal with like sometimes you disappoint people and it sucks. It does suck. Yeah.

But like you need to do that and not suck even more by trying to like sidestep or escape it. Yeah. I just think so many times we see people like Chris on reality TV shows and we go, oh, oh, they're sweet, you know, and what they really are is just weak. They're weak because they don't have the guts to either stand up for themselves or stand up to other people or deliver some bad news and hold themselves accountable or hold, and it's just weakness. Yeah. I'm so curious what would have happened

if Chris and Johnny went through the experiment, if they like got engaged in the pods and if they would have gotten like gotten married or said yes. I doubt it. I doubt it too. But I'm just curious because he's so worried about like hurting someone that he kind of seems like the person who would say he's the person who I used to be that stayed in a relationship for way too long because you didn't want to upset the person. I'm not speaking about you, but I don't buy Chris this whole I didn't want to hurt Johnny.

So you thought cheating on her would hurt her. Yeah, like you didn't give a shit about Johnny. And you were scared to have the conversation. You were scared to have a conversation and you were scared about the awkwardness that it would be. I mean, breaking up with someone sucks. Let's be honest. It's not fun for most people. The only excuse I'll give Chris is, it's not an excuse, but just to try to empathize and put the audience in maybe his mindset is, if you're not like Lydia and Milton, and even if you are at first when you get out of these bubbles and these experiments, you just don't know what's real and what's not.

when Vanessa and I, after The Bachelor, like it was real. We made a real effort to make that relationship work. But I think we were both kind of like, what is this thing that we're in? Yeah. You know, and Johnny and Chris left this experiment single, reconnected at the airport. I don't know what conversations they had or had about boundaries and expectations. Were they actually boyfriend and girlfriend? Were they just kind of hanging out and kind of seeing where it goes? But at the cookout or whatever it was that they had, they were together. She told people we're official.

Okay. So they, I thought that too. And then I went back because I was like, did they have that? They must have unless. So yeah, no,

he's just a weak man. Yeah. I was bummed about that. Vanessa had her best line ever. She was like, yeah, so you protect the people you love, but would you cheat on the people you love? And he goes, yeah, I was bummed about that. Vanessa had her best line ever. She was like, so you protect the people you love, but would you cheat on the people you love? And he goes, yeah, I guess I do.

He goes, apparently. He owned that. I know that Vanessa and Nick get some criticism and they're not always the greatest hosts, but I was like, applaud. They had a good job this time. Well, it wasn't live. So yeah, Vanessa and Nick, not bad. Totally. Impressed. Impressed? I was impressed with them.

I agree. I mean, better than usual. Yeah, totally. We went from like, get them off our TV screen to like impressed. I thought more as well. Like, okay. No, I always, and I never mind when they kind of go in hard and I know people get annoyed with them for going in hard and I'm like.

Oh, I don't mind the going in hard. I just, this was the first time Vanessa didn't make it about her well yeah I was waiting for her to like start crying yeah that's usually what happens and she's always like in my relationship with Nick this is what happened yeah okay great thanks for the update and them always talking about how old they are

like they always are like is that something that happens in relationships now as if they're like 75 I'm like he did bring up 98 degrees at one point yeah one of them said they weren't alive or something when it was on. I'm like, he did bring up 98 degrees. He did. Yeah. Yeah. One of them said they weren't alive or something when it was on. And I was like, that's a little excessive. Or when they were trying to clarify on Izzy and Johnny hooking up after the show.

And she was like, is hooking up sex these days? I don't know. Yeah. I'm like, why do you talk like you're 70? I don't understand. I felt like Izzy was making more way more of that than it was. It sounds like they ran into each other at a bar and had a 30-second conversation, drunk, I'm sure. Being like, what if we got together? And then at the bar, they fucking maybe kind of packed and that was it.

No, but they said in his car. In his car, okay. So then I was like, was that that night? Because then she said- No, because she said later, we tried hanging out a couple times. So I was like, oh, was there a second time? Yeah. So the timeline was a little weird there, but I agree.

It probably was nothing. I feel, and I ask Izzy this, but I feel like Stacey kind of played him. How? Played? Yeah. Interesting. What do you mean because i think there are some people who show up for this experiment and dive into it and i think some people like know exactly what they're doing and they know that they signed up for a very popular

tv show that is riddled with potential opportunities that follow they've seen previous seasons they've seen the you know what i refer to as the hannah brown moment where you're that and love is blind the deep moment of like standing up for yourself at the altar and like you know and like the best scenario some like the best outcome many of these individuals see is a possibility is to leave single because when you go into the show you're not thinking i'm going to fall in love and get married you go into the show you're not thinking i'm going to fall in love and get married to someone in six weeks you're all thinking this is the same but who knows we'll see what happens but many people like you know rightfully so like imagine like there's no way so they're like how can i do this experience and have it work out the best for me

stacy is intelligent smart and i could see how she would have seen other seasons and thought, how do I do this? How do I end single and get sympathy all at the same time? I think a lot of people going in to these shows, whether it's Bachelor in Paradise, we'll see it this episode, Love is Blind, and having the benefit of watching past seasons, think that they can kind of carve out their own edit or their own narrative, many of which failed to do so. But for all of Izzy's faults, he seemed to me to be very much, I'm going to dive into this experiment and really immerse myself. And Stacey never did. And she

seemed to always, she would take the littlest things and try to make it into a big thing. And that is just not something that, and especially in this experiment, this experiment wasn't about like nitpicking every little thing. It was about getting to know someone in a short period of time and lean on the connection that you formed in the pods and try to build off of that, not relitigate your relationship now that you're outside of the pods and try to build off of that, not re-litigate your relationship now that you're outside of the pods and try to discredit everything you did in the pods. Like Milton and Lydia, for all of their faults, were just like, no, we're going to focus on the

bond that we built out in the pods that focused on our emotional connection. And we're going to take that momentum and build off of that. And Stacey did the literal opposite. The only thing it seemed like they had that was a strong physical connection and that was what they built on over and over again, in my mind. Sure, until they got into the real world and anything came up about like Izzy

and she just wouldn't let it go and add to it and then... Right, she was looking for problems in my mind. Like with the paper plates or with things like that. She was looking for issues. Only to find out he actually actually had regular plates. Yeah, I didn't interpret it as her looking for problems.

I think she has some really rigid standards that lend themselves to perhaps like nitpicking or blowing stuff out of proportion. But I didn't feel like she was doing it for an out. I feel like that's how she is. And it's something where the people who could maybe most benefit from this experiment, who are the most kind of like specific or really like to control all these various factors and are going into this to like shake that up. So that way they can't vet people in the same way. And then they have to fall in love based off of just like an emotional connection. Like it could make sense to me that this would be an environment that was very bizarre for her.

connection like it could make sense to me that this would be an environment that was very bizarre for her and i i do buy that she felt really shaken that izzy hadn't brought up the credit card thing before like i think that opened to this can of worms of like what else i think there was a hundred percent chance she already knew she was going to say no before she found out about the credit card stuff yeah interesting i think that was the night before like yeah stacy you know i think she already it's not ever one thing. We know that. But I think she had already made up her mind. Yeah.

And I listened to you guys talk about this before. But in my mind, if that was such a big deal, the credit score, the credit card thing, all of that, which you guys have already gotten into. Why didn't she bring it up in the pods? into why didn't she bring it up in the pods if that is she has such specific standards about finances and not to have something having someone that has a lot of money but just having their things in line why didn't you talk about that drill them in the pods we do find out uh what izzy's credit score was oh on thursday and i am curious what you guys think after listening to izzy because he goes into detail about the conversation that uh stacy and him had a week after the wedding and i just felt like me hearing that was like yeah you got played oh yikes um that was he felt yeah i yeah i'm curious

what you'll think listening it back but after it was just like yeah no dude she was done she had no interest and she every time ran into you said what she needed to say to make you feel better about it so that you weren't a bad guy so that a year later when you went to the reunion you would agree to her little you know peace offering and alliance and yeah you got played that's what i think i do feel like his i know he's like dating someone now or whatever he said on the reunion which was weird also that they both neither of them really wanted to say if they were dating someone i mean she is dating someone but i was confused i feel like he probably got a lot of dms after from some women that afterward this wrapped because I think he...

We met his girlfriend. Oh, is she cool? Yeah. As if you're going to be like, no, she sucks. I didn't really get to know her, but very, very beautiful. And a little information on her on the episode. Yeah. Oh, good.

Yeah. I think he totally got played. I don't know. I do feel like i at first really wouldn't relate to stacy and i was a little bit like frustrated watching with the way she was treating him and the way that she dealt with all of her finances and kind of said that her family something i don't know i feel like that was really weird and kind of icky but i do feel like as i've gotten older that i've realized like having stability and having a

job and having all that is so important that I was like, oh, maybe I do relate to Stacey. I mean, I think all her reasons for not wanting to marry Izzy were valid. Yeah. You know, I'm not criticizing her for not wanting to marry Izzy. It was just, I think she took, she knew that Izzy was all in. She never was. And she was willing to go to the end to be on camera and hope that she would get her deep moment. Or hoping that to give. And I don't know that she deserves benefit of the doubt, but to give her like absolute

maximal benefit of the doubt, her like trying to push herself and say, I know this is incredibly uncomfortable. Like she seems like someone who is very much like feels most at peace when she is in control of things. Like it seems like she is very much someone who is able to like plan and execute. Like she's kind of built

a lot of stability for herself. Granted, it seems like she had a lot of help and was coming from a great start. But that being said, it's like she owns her house. Because her grandfather

like really paid his dues. That's what I was like, huh? No, that was kind of like, and that's the thing that makes it hardest. What an out of touch. It was so out of touch. So out of touch. She's like, I've worked really hard for this. And I was like, what? No, that was kind of like, and that's the thing that makes it hardest. What an out of touch.

It was so out of touch. So out of touch. Oh, yeah. I've worked really hard for this. And I was like, you have? Well, she's a Pilates instructor, you know? Well, it's like operations. She works so hard.

She has time to moonlight as a Pilates instructor. Yeah, her lower didn't match what was going on. But I do think you could say even she yes she was certainly the one who was like needed to come around to it like izzy was so all in and he was izzy made himself much more vulnerable in that way but i think you could give stacy benefit of the doubt and say she was trying and trying and trying and she really thought that when they because it's such a nuanced thing of like the difference between saying do do you have any debt and do you have a bad credit score? Where it's like I think for a lot of people like for her, it was obviously like implied.

Like, I don't think she's someone who's ever had a credit score that was below 700. So I don't think she necessarily is super capable of empathizing with how that happens and is probably like, oh, it's a huge deal. You're horrible with money. Right. And so when she's having that financial conversation, she assumes it would be like a flashing red sign like, oh, this needs to be addressed. I also wonder if she ever has had those conversations before in the past, because she just dated guys she's just known were financially secure. Probably, yeah. It sounds like she maybe was dating older, more successful men who, and also I'm here to tell you, I'm guessing that people with bad credit scores don't care as much about their credit score. Right? Also, the bad credit score doesn't make you like a bad, irresponsible person. Like sometimes that happens. Like I, I mean, I used to have a bad credit score. This was a

conversation. I literally had like PTSD watching this. I had this in a relationship that I was in. I had this conversation because he's very financially stable. I was 22 and just had a ton of school loans. Yeah. you missed a couple payments. No, I just had so many school... Yeah, sure. Maybe I did miss a couple payments. I was very... Whatever.

I have great credit now, if anyone's wondering. But we had that conversation and I was like, oh, I never really thought about my credit score. Like he was like, oh, that's not something you think about.

And I was like, no. And that's... Seven years older. People in their early 20s don't put much thought into it. Unless your parents told you. Told you. Right.

Which is a huge advantage to enter the world with. When I was 19 or 20, it was college. We all, me and four dudes lived in a house together and we split up like responsibilities of who paid what. Apparently I got the utilities electric bill and i was like would wait to collect the money to pay it well yeah i gotta dig on my fucking credit score of course you did someone else had the cable bill you know that doesn't affect your credit score yeah it's a lot of it just not knowing or being dumb and not being aware so i get stacy's side i

get izzy's side i just think again there if i would have met someone that i was a day away from getting married to and i truly loved them and i was so excited and i found out they had a bad credit score i would have found a way to get around it yeah i at least would have had a conversation like all right well let's just understand how we got to where we got and maybe that got to where we got is like a story of like i don't know i was young and stupid i didn't fucking know i tell you what i learned a lot about like how to improve your credit and not i'm johnny on the spot now you know and things like that's like okay yeah well yeah we'll get it up you know yeah like we'll work on it together that's what a partnership does like

short of you guys being in the market to buy a house tomorrow like you can work through which she already bought a house that needs a lot of work yeah so many hvac repairs so i i think if you i think if stacy was listening to this episode she would be offended by our my commentary because she'd be like oh my god how could i think she doesn't think for a second she played him i think she believes her own narrative and i think she would probably even pass a lie detector test that she was all in but like you look you look back and this is not someone who was trying to find ways to make this relationship work. That was Izzy.

Stacey was trying, like Milton, Lydia. These were people trying to like figure out how to make it work. And I'm not saying one's right or wrong. I mean, maybe you could argue that Stacey's the most sane out of all of them. I don't know. But she definitely played them.

Well, I feel like played is maybe a step too far. I don't know. But she definitely played them, in my opinion. Well, I feel like played is maybe a step too far. I sound like Kat. Definitely this is what happened, I think. Oh my gosh. Maybe. What's the best? Oh my god. Okay, well before we get into that, should we quickly just like JP

I just honestly feel bad. We thought at the same time. I just feel bad for everyone maybe it's just me being the guy I think he JP handled everything wrong I just feel for him because clearly is incapable

and he has some emotional limitations that I just sympathize for the guy I don't know if I sympathize I mean I know I don't sympathize for him and I wonder everyone's looking at you know, I think that that's a good way to look like another perspective to look at it. I just don't I don't see how I mean, we're human beings and being unattracted to someone is not a bad thing where there's so many of us in the world. People are going to be unattracted to people. I just think the way that he handled shutting her

out completely and then saying the one thing he decided to say, he couldn think the way that he handled shutting her out completely and then saying the one thing he decided to say he couldn't even say that right. And then he claims that that wasn't what he meant. That was what he meant. But then he said

at the reunion it was quote shocking and off-putting when he saw her. And I was like bro that's some descriptive language. Yeah when they said

like were you not attracted to her and that's how he responded. I was like you should have just said no I wasn't. It's not a crime to not be attracted to someone. I didn't take it I took it as he was attracted to her and that's how he responded. I was like, you should have just said, no, I wasn't. It's not a crime to not be attracted to someone. I didn't take it. I took it as he was attracted to her,

hated the makeup thing. Really? That's how I took it. How could JP not be attracted to Taylor? I mean, that's the question. That was the question. I was looking at them like, wait, are we seeing different? She was stunning at the reunion. She looked amazing. So did Aaliyah. I mean, yeah, all the women

looked really stunning so i guess i i just don't see a world in which jp isn't attracted to taylor so maybe i'm having like a cognitive dissonance problem going on there american flag socks were like in full effect and i was just like wait she was saying she's attracted to him but he wasn't attracted to her which i was i didn't think i thought it was the makeup that he didn't have an issue with but who knows yeah i i think it's but it gets into a i think you could very much make the case that for attraction like sure there might be ways that someone like because there's such a spectrum of how you can like present yourself on any given day how done up you want to be etc like how experimental creative and so i think you can

make a case that like sure well my partner might have a preference towards this if they are attracted to me a bit of makeup is not going to shut it down exactly it seemed like he had some really deep internalized judgments about the type of girls who wear makeup and are fake in that way which i think what rubbed so many people the wrong way about him and especially it was like well you're not saying anything to redeem yourself. Like you're not expressing yourself or being super communicative about other things. That's kind of what we have to go off of like that and the fact that you're a walking American flag. So it's like, what do you want us to make of you?

I think I just have sympathy because I think despite all his flaws, of which there are many, I just don't think this is I think this is a guy who has a genuine interest in being good. Whether he is able, like whether he's accomplishing that or not. I just, you know what I'm saying? And I think he's got a bad childhood and he's a flaw. Like it doesn't make any of what he did okay. I just have sympathy for someone who doesn't have the tools or the resources to be the person they say they want to be. But yeah, seems to want, you know. And I think he'd be a huge acts of service

guy like i think he'd be the guy or like if i was like my car battery died and i was like trying to wave someone down i think he would definitely stop yeah this is he wouldn't speak to you but he would stop this is not an emotionally regulated person who was who was able to talk himself out of like a very challenging situation he found himself in i do think this experiment helped him and like maybe taught him some things. Whether he'll be able to use that in the future we don't know but even him acknowledging that his song would be Sound of Silence I was like well at least you're aware

that you don't speak and that you don't communicate how you're feeling. No it's a nightmare to be in a relationship with him. But he is in one and like for a year he said so I don't know. Maybe she's in one. And like for a year, he said. So I don't know. Clearly, maybe she's quiet too. And she wears no makeup.

Au naturel. Good for her. Which is Instagram, but he's only posted a photo of a dog. Oh, one more thing before we move on. Johnny and Stacey, again, I thought that Stacey just still acted like a bully,

even in the explanation at the reunion. When she said, you know, Johnny was saying that I was a safe choice, which I find very interesting. I was like, that is the most impressively bitchy delivery of the word very I have ever heard. Johnny said the best thing at the reunion, which is like, listen, we just clearly are seeing this from two different points of view, is that's all this is you're going after the same guy for a period of time in a weird environment johnny chose to handle it one way by

being open about who she was dating and the feelings she was having stacy decided to be more cagey and cryptic they both had a right to do it but at some point that came to a head johnny seemed to like move on from whatever drama they had in the pod being like you know what whatever no big deal Stacy was this like I fucking hate this bitch to the end of time and if I get an opportunity to cut her I will like it was like

it made no fucking sense just let the fuck go she was so mad still you could feel the fact that Johnny was having a full conversation with Chris while Stacy was giving this full monologue about it was just so telling to me. Because Johnny has no interest. They replayed the tape and it was like Stacey like clearly butting into a conversation. She knew what was going on, but acted like, oh, I'm just sitting here because I had nothing to do.

It's just like you just come on. No one believes this. No, no, no, no, no. Stacey did release an Instagram statement. Would you like to hear? Yes. Okay. I have anxiously been waiting in silence to address the context of where my frustration...

Already a victim. Started with I. The victim mentality of some of these reality TV stars is unbelievable these days. They have all the buzzwords. Yes. She wanted to address the context of where my frustration and anger comes from regarding... Was she gaslit? We'll see.

Yeah. There are certain buzzwords where it's like, drink every time. During and outside of filming, she bashed me as a person as well as my physical appearance. While in the pause, she told my fellow castmates,

Izzy would never be happy with her, end quote, end quote. If that's what he wants, he's going to have bigger problems outside of here. Or, Stacey is the safe choice.

Or, if Izzy chooses Stacey, he's going to be disappointed at reveal because she is not hot. And these are all quotes that she's using. Some of these things were said while I was in the room and some were said to my friends behind my back

who in turn told me I never once called her out or attacked her for doing these things because I was focused on my relationship and engagement with Izzy. It's a multi-parter. Wait, never once called her out? She's saying in the pods.

She's like, on Tuesday? There was this one specific moment. I didn't say anything. And in that 12-minute window, I definitely did not call her out. Definitely limited. So she now goes on to address the barbecue. At the barbecue, Milton, Johnny, and I were sitting together and Milton said, man, Johnny, I don't remember Stacey from the pods, but we met in Mexico and she's super cool. Johnny scoffed and replied, not memorable, shocking with a sarcastic tone, making me feel like I shouldn't be a memorable person. I had yet to reply to her in

any negative manner, but she crossed my boundaries with that final remark, which is why you see me respond the way I do after she approached me with the deceitful comment. The comment I made about Johnny's face was because I was shocked that someone who was supposedly Lydia's closest friend was acting like she believed Uche's awful accusations about her and finding humor in it. I felt like a portrayal of the friendships I knew were built in the pods. And while my reaction may have been inappropriate, I know I owe it to explain why I felt disturbed by that. It feels very ironic that I'm being portrayed as a bully when, in fact, the actions of Johnny are very much come across to me as antagonizing, for which I stood up for myself and others against. I strongly encourage anyone feeling attacked or belittled to stand up for themselves.

Many of my fellow castmates witnessed all of which I am stating and have encouraged me to speak up these castmates are and then she tags them. Izzy Zapata, James Milton, Lav G, which I presume Izzy told her to stand up for herself? Taylor, Miss Renee. So like she tags several different castmates.

Stacey, if you're listening, I got something to say to you. Just consider the possibility because what Stacey if you're listening I got something to say to you just consider the possibility because what Stacey has been able to do in every situation Stacey is able to see the situation through her eyes through her own main character storyline

and she's able to come up with what she believes is to be very justifiable explanations for why she did what she did. And I'm just here to say, Stacey, life is just a lot easier when you just try to do that with the people you're in conflict with. Try, just assume that whatever you think of Johnny, that she did what she did and she has her own justifiable reasons for doing what she did and both of you aren't right or wrong you're just coming from it from your own i'm the main fucking character and stacy comes across as someone whose whole life was about her that her whole family would like like was like

you're the main character we're all here to support you the main main character. And I'm sorry, just Stacey comes across as very much main character syndrome. Yeah. And it's just amazing how much she has a very, like, I, this is why they did this, and this is why I did this, and blah, blah, blah. And it's like, yeah, I get it, you know? And I know you believe it. But, like, so does Johnny.

Yeah, everyone has their own how they feel about it. Let the fuck go. it yeah just move on like you're still out here trying to convince us something that you're not going to convince anyone you know you're just not I think Stacy's Stacy's a perfectionist and so it seems like this is kind of a manifestation of that perfectionism of being like wait no but people have an inaccurate view and I'm determined to explain myself as opposed to just walking away and being like okay some stuff yeah I mean I know we're talking about it because it's a podcast, but I assure you, Stacey, we won't be when we get done. None of us are thinking about this.

Yeah. And it's just like, it's just your point of view, you know? And the world's a lot easier when you just stop and think, wait, as right as I think I am, what do they think? How do they see it? You know? Yeah. Main character energy is a really you're so right that's exactly what this is it's all it is and you know i'd also like to point out that on johnny's instagram uh there's a lot of taylor swift lyrics if you never bleed you're never gonna grow for her one year post she said hell was a journey but it brought me heaven i feel like that's telling yeah she's a swifty for sure yeah i trust her sheifty. I remember she used the song, The One, for her. The whiteboard challenge. Her whiteboard challenge.

You're not going to convince anyone, Stacey. You're just not. We're not here for that. Let it go. It doesn't matter. No one's going through this world being like, are you team Johnny? Are you team Stacey? I'm pretty sure I'm not having those conversations with anybody.

No one's having those. Are Stacey going to tag everyone too? Because when we were talking to Izzy, we were like, it is so mean. Yes, that's mean. When you say everyone thinks this. It's so mean. You are shady and everyone thinks so. Everyone thinks it was so unnecessary.

It's so cruel. And he was like, yeah, I regret that. And then now for Stacey, a year later, a year after that comment was made. Tagging people. Yeah. To be like, here's my proof that everyone agrees. Here's the people who agree. I don't care.

Yeah. Yeah. From her perspective, she's like, like no and i'm so right that i promise i'm gonna have other people who can corroborate it but it just looks like again a redo of that kind of like bullying mentality i fully believe that johnny said shit about you that if she said about me would piss me off too it's not the point but johnny said too like i had just come off of that rejection like i said those things they were not coming from a place of kindness they were coming from a place of sadness. She did apologize for those. She was like bottom line I just didn't think you guys were compatible and like that's

she can have that opinion. That's another that's another point too it's just like this show people are asked for their commentary on other people and Johnny chose to give it and Stacey was like how fucking dare you talk about me. Meanwhile Stacey didn like, how fucking dare you talk about me? Meanwhile, Stacey didn't say one thing in the pods to anyone about what she was going

through, which again is her choice. But it's like, not everybody did that. But it's clearly Stacey has opinions about others, which I'm sure she shares. And she doesn't ever think that she's wronging these people, you know? So it's again, just the world's not all about you. No, no. For all you walkers out there living in the city or maybe just general walkers out there who love a long day out away from your home you got to

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June needs your help, detectives. That's right. Download June's Journey for free today on iOS and Android. Discover your inner detective when you download June's Journey for free today on iOS and Android. Discover your inner detective when you download June's Journey for free today on iOS and Android. Speaking of wronging people, do we want to jump into the cat situation on Bachelor in Paradise? Sure. Well, because I think Golden Bachelor is like, yeah, OK, yeah, we'll go. We'll go. Should we go BIP first and then we'll close out with Golden? Yeah, I found that I really need to watch them separately. I understand

why they would air them back to back to try to get the audience to just keep watching. It's so jarring watching them back to back. Golden Bachelor ruins paradise because you're just like, okay, this is empty and stupid. They're all fake. You're all here for TV. I hate you all.

These stupid little children. Call me in 20 years. None of these people know what they're doing. Right? Yeah. Exactly. The earnestness of the Golden Basher. But nevertheless,

Kat. Kat. Let's get into Kat. What the fuck were you thinking, Kat? I'm going to start talking to all these people we talk about

because I know they all fucking listen. And then I'm going to get some sort of fucking DM or whatever. I don't know. What were you thinking, Kat? If I, I watched the episode knowing that we were going to get some sort of fucking DM or whatever. I don't know. What were you thinking, Kat? If I watched the episode knowing that we were going to talk about it and thinking to myself,

if my goal is to try to give Kat the benefit of the doubt and blame the edit, how could I come up with an argument? And I don't know if I can. I don't know how. I think her big point is that there was stuff omitted because she posted an instagram story yeah i feel like can i read i feel like one of us but how does that justify her literal temper yeah she might as well have been stomping her feet on the beach she was stomping her feet yeah it was a very unbecoming moment she demonstrated some moments and i hate to say it, that was like, it would be a non-negotiable for me to be like in terms of dating eligibility.

Like a red flag you couldn't look past. I couldn't look past. Like, this is how you handle like not getting your way. Yeah. It's not a great look. Maybe she felt so bad for Brayden like we did that she wanted to give him a redemption arc. She's so selfless. Maybe. I love that.

They were making out so fucking hard episode two or three. Oh, it was insane. Aggressive. Yeah, yeah. Arms hungry. Yeah, yeah. Ripping in each other's skin, throat like you were doing

in a tongue down throat. Just like when you're literally trying to, can I get my tongue in deeper? That was how they looked when they were making out. That wasn't like a, I'm just going to like feel it out. Yeah. And I say this as someone who knows it's possible because I did it. Like there is nothing stopping any of these people from having their favorites, sliding into a few DMs, hoping someone's going to show up, showing up to the beach, have that person you hope to be there not being there and still navigate paradise without coming across as like you're using anyone. And all you have to say is, hey, listen, you seem great. I just want to be honest with you. Before I got here, I was really excited

about meeting Tanner. And Tanner's not here. I don't know if they're coming because you're supposed to act like you don't fucking know. But if you're open to it, I will be open to exploring this because I really like you. Yeah. But I just want to be upfront with you that if that person shows up, I just, I want to explore that too. Right. And I just want to be honest with you about that.

It's not that fucking hard. And if you say it over and over, like they have to use it in the edit. Yeah. So that's so, okay, well let's read this Instagram because she claims that she did reach in with him. Yeah. I reached out with him. This whole statement is the same thing we watched. Anyways, Genev well, let's read this Instagram because she claims that she did reach in with him. Yeah, reach out with him. This whole statement is the same thing we watched.

Anyways, Genevieve, please. Did I check in with him prior to the date? Yes. Yes. I like this. Oh, I like this. Okay. Did he tell me he was fine with the situation and then say other things to others?

Yes. Did I validate his feelings? Yes. Did he gaslight me for validating his feelings? Yes. Did he have toxic responses when I tried to explain my feelings? Yes. Was that very triggering for me? Yes. Did he gaslight me for validating his feelings? Yes. Did he have toxic responses when I tried to explain my feelings? Yes. Was that very triggering for me?

Yes. Did they only show the part of the conversation where I finally got frustrated as if it was the whole conversation? Yes! Oh, Kat. I mean, listen, we just saw a person who looked like in every conflict she's ever been in, she's the victim. Yeah.

So it's hard for me to read this statement I mean like gaslighting reality TV is seems to be when a guy says to a woman on a cast

I didn't see it that way I don't agree with you and immediately they're being gaslit or accused of being gaslighting like where is this gaslighting Kat we didn't see any

and again it could have been when we saw it was Brayden being legitimately confused by cat's response i i don't see how gaslighting happened with brayden being like okay sorry all right listen we're good like yeah he was like i just don't want to be part of this anymore yeah he's done with this he's like okay all right like he should be i mean he should be thanking tanner for coming like this is this is the sign you needed that this wasn't it for you and i listen it is entirely possible that cat had some kind of conversation with brayden that we didn't get to see that that's definitely possible but when and how much well so let me ask you, do you think immediately she should

pull him before she goes on the date? Yes. Is that the thing to do? Because she did kind of like, I mean, you thought that she was going to and then she didn't and... I don't think anybody has doing that this season the way they would in past seasons. Like, it felt like in past seasons they would get asked on the date and they

would be like, so-and-so, can I talk to you? Or they would say yes and immediately say so can i talk to you or they would say yes and immediately say can i talk to you after versus this season because i remember like will did it i think kylie did it where it seems like they just say yes right away and then if they check in after it doesn't feel as like linked or in the moment right i keep being like why don't you say yes and then like hey can you come talk while i get ready? Like, let's have this discussion. Yeah. I mean, and Def, listen, they just edited two couples out of Love is Blind. So the power of the edit is significant.

Right. And I am sure that Kat remembers it differently. But all that aside, just Kat, like your response and behavior and attitude to everyone like when she told jess and yeah and she was talking to her her friend jess like jess was in kindergarten and she was the mom the babysitter get over here right now like what the fuck i don't i don't understand yeah and you could tell jess and kylie were both like oh boy here it goes cat being cats like oh my god like is she really like that yeah and it's it was i feel like because watching paradise you know i was watching with my roommate who was like i think

cat's so fun before this episode was like i kind of like her personality and it was like yeah she was in paradise yeah it was too hot yeah she was freaked out by bugs, but she was there, you know, and she might've been kind of like leaning into that and making jokes, but she was down to clown. At least it seemed. And then this was like immediately the side of her that we saw in Zach's season

of the like, the second people don't see things the way she sees them. It seems like she feels very entitled to everybody sharing her view on a situation. I actually agree with her during Zach's season but now I feel like maybe I was wrong. Regardless of whether you, she always agrees

with herself and so sometimes other people might but even when other people don't it seems like she has very strong convictions about the way she sees the situation. Yeah I guess it wasn't so much what she did, it was like her response to it. I didn't have a problem with what she did per se right because i don't care about you pulling i don't care about you pursuing a relationship

right on the bachelor but how you handle it yeah well usually that's the case right how you handle something is showing someone's i'm sorry like the fact that again not that gaslighting. It is a form of abuse. So before you start accusing one of your castmates of abuse and toxic language, as you said, like that's, I'm sorry, like stop throwing away around those words to describe a behavior of some guy on a beach so that you, because you don't like the criticism you're getting from the internet. Like that is not right. No, that's like attacking someone's character. You can't do that.

It's a little bit more than attacking someone's character. You're literally calling them abusive. Right. Right. I think it's also telling, too, that like everyone fucking hated Brayden. Like Sean himself is like, this is the surprise of the century for me that I'm like, I'm sticking up for him. Like everyone hated him and they're still taking his side in this. Yeah.

You know, like Jess and Kylie are your closest friends on the beach and they're like, Kat, what are you doing? You need to stop. You know? Yeah, I just... Like if everyone is against you...

And meanwhile Kat was like, well, I don't want to hear this now. Like from my best friends, doesn't matter. Don't want to hear it. Walk away. I just don't know what she was thinking. And again,

I don't care what you said to him or not. You were all over him. Mm-hmm. All over him. Like again, maybe not the same, but when I was in a somewhat similar situation to her, when I was going on dates, I was kind of patting people on the back. Be like, hey, buddy. Because I just didn't want to be accused of beating anyone on. The biggest difference is I wasn't afraid to go home.

That is a difference. The cognitive distances of these people who are lying to themselves because all they want to do is get to next week. That's all they want to do. And they don't see the desperation in their actions. Right.

And then when they get caught, they act like the victims in a situation while everyone else is doing. Paradise is not, for anyone who's going

on Paradise in the future, it is not a show for you to like be a fuck boy. There's literally called a show called F-Boy Island. We're talking about with Nikki Glaser on Thursday as well. But that's not the show.

Right. It's not your chance to be the bachelor or the bachelorette. That's not what the show is. It's the same fucking show every... Go pick one person and see if it works out. That's it. And if you try to like jump around, you're going to get fucked.

Yeah. Unless you, again, unless you said, like you said, if they had that conversation, like I was interested in Tanner before. We had this, we DM'd.

So if he comes, if he comes, I'm going to go on a date. But you have to say it so much that person really knows that they are an option. Right. And clearly Kat did not make

Brayden feel like an option right she made him feel special and valued i don't feel this way what would you say to someone who made the case of like but what if that was her really just like trying it out fully leaning in and knowing yeah sure there might be another opportunity down the line but for now like i really want to give this the best chance i can by like going all in no that is a main character explanation main character energy is the theme of this this whole episode yeah i mean sure like i guess but did you have their permission to lead them on you know kind of it's like there's a difference between yeah because i do think in the real world nowadays we don't give people the grace to like figure it out and try

to date and and we don't allow people to have their feelings change without being the bad guy or being called a love bomber and shit like that but that's not what was happening here no she knew the whole time she had something for tanner she outed herself during the campfire with hannah the hannah brown episode where they she got asked who would you like to see and she was like you for Tanner. She outed herself during the campfire with Hannah Brown episode where she got asked, who would you like to see? And she was like, you know, Tyler, she deliberately said Tanner's name second. She was trying to

like bury the lead, so to speak, you know? Totally. Because when Tyler showed up, she was, didn't care. Was she on her date though when Tyler showed up? Oh, no, I don't think so. Maybe. She might have been.

Didn't Tyler get there first? I can't remember. I don't think it really matters. No, it was not about Tyler. Because not only that, but Kerr and Tanner clearly talk. It was so obvious. And it's fine too. You know, it's totally fine. You know, Tanner's like, yeah, you were definitely on my radar.

And then she's like, yeah. He's like, oh, no, I mean, I was going to ask you basically. It was like so transparent. I was going to ask you, basically. It was so transparent. I just don't know how the edit made it look like she was obsessed with Brayden and all over Brayden. And there was just... We saw you guys making out and being so into him. There's no way that it could have faked that.

That's not a thing. You didn't kind of like... And they stretched it out. We've all seen women make out with guys they don't want to make out with yeah that was not that that was not that you know that just wasn't it so i'm sorry cat just just say you know what i could have handled that situation differently i was more concerned about my feelings than brayden reflecting back. I wish I was just a little bit more considerate to his story as much as I was mine. And going forward, I'll learn from that lesson.

Truly. Instead of accusing him of gaslighting her and toxic responses. Yeah. Not okay. Yeah. No. And doubling down like that is just so unbecoming when it's like you're so unwilled like you're blaming your friends who are trying to help you and explain stuff and you're attacking them because they're disrupting this like snow globe version of you that you have and

it's just like it just seems like someone who hasn't navigated a ton of adversity because at the first sign of it she was very defensive and blaming towards other people instead of wondering whether there was any way she could have accountability or like acknowledge her own role yeah and when you get in a fight with someone in a relationship you get emotional you might raise your voice you might say something that the other person doesn't agree with or finds to be completely wrong or inaccurate that that is that's called a fight in a relationship and you move forward and you have to work through those and like we're no longer especially we watch these

shows offer like it's if if someone raises your voice their voice to you or even like says no i did that i don't that no disagrees i just that that didn't happen yeah they're not cast lighting you that's not abusive that's not abusive it's not it's not triggering language trigger everything seems to be crissering uh triggering anything that's not a compliment is triggering yeah yeah it's like you you did something wrong cat ah yeah my feelings were hurt how dare you how dare you it's like come on but that's but that is Kat's not the only one like this these days. No. Oh, absolutely not. That is, which is, again, why we like Golden so much.

Because, again, like I said before, these relationships on reality TV isn't about finding love. It's just about winning the fight, winning the breakup, winning the eventual, the outcome. And it's just like, becomes so gross. the outcome. And it's just like becomes so gross. Also that like it is kind of funny how why did Jess get so out so Scott free? She was shopping around too. Yeah she was. And she

was hoping she got asked for the date. Yeah. And then she was bummed that she didn't. She's like Blake yeah he's nice and all but And she also seemed bummed when she didn't get the date with Tyler. Yeah. She was bummed. But I also don't think Jess. It was funny that Kat was like fighting battles on two fronts, like with her friends and with Brayden.

I do think that the friend one was unjustified. You don't get to get mad at Kat, Jess, because Tanner liked her better. You both would have ditched your men. Right. In fact, Jess should be thanking Kat. Yeah. In a way. Yeah. In fact, Jess should be thanking Kat. Yeah. In a way.

Yeah. Because now she can just, you know, slowly go back into Blake who's just, who's unfortunately for Blake, still comes across as well, just like anyone

who likes him back. Oh, sad. Yeah. It makes me feel bad. I really changed my tone because at first I was like, oh my God,

surprising, wonderful couple of paradise. They seem happy together. And then the body language this episode is like, like there's a lot of like silence where he thinks it's a comfortable science silence. And she's like, get me out of here immediately. Yeah.

They just seem bored. And they should still already be in the honeymoon phase. Like still be in that very much so. And they're already bored with each other. And it's been three days. Yeah. They have nothing to say already. Like that's not a great sign.

Now we know that when every time Jess wears a one piece, she's bloated. Oh my gosh. Why did she say that? Like four times. Unnecessary information. I was so confused why she kept saying it. Like, girls wear one pieces. It's not weird.

I don't. I'm all for, you know, ladies that, or Natalie, now that I'm in a relationship with her, like, you know, just being a vulnerable queen and. Totally. You know, but like a first date it's like okay thanks also on tv multiple times like i just was very confused i don't i like but we are talking about a share representation i saw myself she's my people's princess she can do no wrong in my eyes i love her it's fine but i just what are you how are you supposed to respond to that? Like, okay. Like, cool.

Yeah, I don't like note two. Like, what? I don't know. To be fair, ABC loves to show the overshare because we had such a big storyline about bowel movements. I hate it. I was so uncomfortable.

I could not. I hated every fucking moment of that. The fucking bomb clock? The turtle. The turtle they kept cutting to. The producers really should be ashamed of themselves that is to me a reflection

on you not doing your job yeah you must have no story there must have been nothing good going on I could see how when it was going down they were like

oh maybe we should like you know make some light of this oh we can maybe get a little bit of drama out of it they way too far way too much

too much 20 minutes I mean it's so long. Like a fucking cliffhanger about poop. Listen, like there are some people

in this world who love a good fucking poop joke. Most people aren't them. No, no. A lot of the people watching this show,

that's not what they're there to watch. Like that's not who you're targeting. Yeah. And I didn't need like, you're not a like a supportive king by being

calling it your poop baby. I do think Aaron was supportive in the accent. I liked that he brought her like poop. Poop, poop, bladder. I liked that he was supportive. Of course, because I like a supportive guy. I just don't need to hear him talking about like delivering her shit. No, absolutely not.

Absolutely not. I don't need the visual yeah her just you know and her just be like one more push yeah i just i don't know that could have been a two minute segment of him bringing her food because she's having stomach problems fine and not her going to wells for like uh like what the fuck wells was like uh and poor guy had to do a confessional about it i was like are you kidding that we poor guy had to do a confessional about it. I was like, are you kidding that we're getting Wells opinion on a confessional? How they film the show is one thing, because all they're there when they're filming the show is just to record everything.

Of course. They're not there to cherry pick what they think is important or not important. Their job is just to accumulate information and then let the storytellers in post figure out what they should prioritize or not. So like, but when they got to post, they clearly were like, well, I don't know. We have fucking two hours to fill and I guess we just have poop. I just don't give a shit. I guarantee she's not the first person who had irregular bowels in Paradise

because chances are when you go... When you travel, things get a little funky right and you're eating that food you're drinking maybe more than you usually are your body your body's in literal shock you know your your diet's off your stress levels are off you're in a different environment like she's not the first person that'll be a little backed up something that i found was like kind of really or like that i feel like was more justifiable of being aired than a lot of that stuff was when she was like I took a stool softener and it kicked in

during the roast. That was funny. Oh God like everybody has been there where like you are waiting for some kind of something and then it happens at the least and if that's all we got I would have laughed and we moved on. Totally. It was like the fucking turtle. The cutting to the turtle was making me I've never cringed

more and that's saying a lot watching Bachelor Paradise. I feel like Peeta should maybe intervene. That felt like it was really violating to that turtle. And I feel bad for her because I really do like her and this is her main storyline. Yeah. Like what? Yeah. It's also like not,

also like 10 days is a long time and that's not really a joke that we're all making it a joke and like you would literally have to go to the hospital. I can just hear the producers now are being like, should we do this? And they're being like, don't worry, we're not even going to use this shit. Guaranteed. She's like, all right, fine, whatever. And they made a whole fucking episode.

And a cliffhanger. About it. And a cliffhanger. See you next week to see what happens. Do we feel bad for Will or got what he deserved? I feel a little bad. On Team Olivia. Also also why is what's his name team olivia what um fucking yeah poop delivery guy oh aaron oh aaron he just they started a soundbite of basically him being like fuck olivia i don't i don't remember that i'm pretty am i? Am I the only one who saw that? Maybe I'm wrong, but he kind of,

I think it's because Olivia's hanging out with Pete. He fucking hates Pete. He hates Pete. And now I think he must hate Olivia or something. By proxy. By proxy?

I don't know. Well, then he's biased. Olivia also just has best TV on the show. I feel like Olivia is like if they put a fan of the show on the beach. A hundred percent.

Because like, I mean, we haven't seen anything of her and Peter. Like, it doesn't feel like she's pursuing a romantic relationship. She's just like pursuing drama. And she's like in the confessional. It's like giving us the rundown of everything. It's like she's an undercover journalist. She's one of us.

It's amazing to see our representation. Yes. And she's like, I will do anything to see Will go down. I don't care. I will do anything. I kind of forgot about his heartbreak. And she's like, I will do anything to see Will go down. I don't care. I will do anything. Because I kind of forgot about his heartbreak. And I'm like,

oh yeah. Oh damn. He did grab her face and try to make out with her. And she's there to still remind everyone. Try to blame it on her toes. Yeah.

Yeah. That was cringe. Come on, dude. I do feel for Will though. A little bit. This is a little. He's a good looking tall guy and like they're really.

Yeah, he's a cutie. He is definitely getting optioned. And I don't think Mercedes over promised. Like I think she was comforting in a way that he genuinely really appreciated. And it was a bummer when it didn't turn into like them both growing a romantic connection. But I don't think I think she was being authentically kind without leading him on too much. Right. I will say hearing like I would be kind of pissed watching it back and hearing Mercedes and Tyler talk about how they have like their best friends, like with Kylie and Aiden.

And like that seemed really next level. Like not only are they in the DMs, like they are in like planning. Yes. They're planning double dates. Yeah. Like that's not great. A vacation together. Like they have a couple vacation booked for after this.

Yeah. They're leaving paradise. They're going immediately after paradise to celebrate it's like a straight to cabo like their little honeymoon yeah i was really hopeful for rachel and tyler though me too i was wanting that i was oh i was really hoping for it because we had we had gabby on the other week and she i mean we obviously we don't know anything but Gabby had mentioned on the show like that she was kind of like ready to be done with Sean. And that made me think like that Rachel probably doesn't date him the entire time because if she did, Gabby might have said something along the lines of like, oh, you know, I think he's nice. I think he's like put a different side to himself on the beach. I feel like we don't even see Sean.

We literally have seen him like twice. I feel like they never show him and Rachel. They show him commenting, but they never show their relationship. Yeah. And then the caption for him is like, should be worried about his own relationship. It's like, oh, should we? I mean, we haven't seen any of it. But clearly Rachel was very interested in Tyler when he came.

Like she was clearly hoping he'd think her. I think Rachel's too good for any of these men and shouldn't waste her time. But Tyler? Tyler's so sweet. Tyler's so sweet. Is he the so sweet that we were talking about earlier that's like quiet? I've never met him. I'm sure he's fine.

You know why I think the way I do? I think, especially nowadays, I think this show and this franchise and the landscape of social media and reality TV and 223 basically is a like a honey trap for jobless fuckboys who think they are going to be able to make careers in this space post filming. post-filming. And all that turns out to be is a bunch of bar-hopping fuckboys who are jobless without money and don't know what to do and spend the next year and a half floating on a handful of deals here or there they get for bar appearances, but generally have no real purpose in life, don't know what they're doing. And it's just not the same landscape for the women in the same space it's just not you know like you can make for the most part and then everything's different you can make a career as a woman in this space uh with the audience that they have and i think rachel's on a different level than all of these men and i think for her to try to date any of these men

outside of the show would be met with a bunch of frustration with her excelling at life and these men using her to get to where they want to be. I can see that. I don't I I don't know if I feel like Tyler falls into a little bit of a different bucket than the rest of them. I think from what we saw. I think he's handsome. Of course, I think he's handsome. I'm not blind. Of course, he's handsome. But everyone on the beach is good looking. I mean, it Of course I think he's handsome. He's so handsome. I'm not blind. Of course he's handsome.

But everyone on the beach is good looking. I mean, it's not like they cast ugly people, let's be honest. I don't know. Who? Oh. Don't say it. Who's not your type on the beach? I mean, I didn't say Tyler's my type, but I'm just saying he's

an attractive man. You were talking about Tyler. I think he has a bit more maturity than many of the men that we see. And that's just my opinion. I mean, I don't know him. He might not. Keep watching. Oh, okay.

I don't read spoilers and I don't talk to enough people in this world. I don't read spoilers either. Well, of course, but you have friends in this world that you talk to about it. I don't think he's a bad... I just think he's a... I think he's just a guy who's floated around on his pretty face um it is a pretty face it does say online tyler owns a small business in new jersey on the boardwalk the store is called spirit ball but it's a bit mysterious what he actually sells. It's like next to the Shore store that the Jersey Shore kids worked at. The next store. A Google search for the store name returns nothing.

That's obviously Tyler's store. Somebody's unemployed. All these guys always reach out to me and they're like asking for like, how do I do what you did type of thing? And they all hate the advice I give them. Which is what? I usually give them and which is what i usually give advice about protecting their mental health and they don't want to hear any of that of course and as far as like how do they get to be where i want it's always something about like playing

the long game don't burn bridges and like figuring out what you're passionate about and grinding it out which they don't like hearing any of that they want the quick solution they want like yeah like do this five steps of course you know they want to they want me to be like oh no i have like an agent and a manager who are perfect for you right that's what it is what they want that's what they want yeah and they they don't want to hear me being like hey i grinded for three fucking years before like i felt like any real momentum yeah you know so good luck and also me like saying like well listen like i had an advantage of being the bachelor which in this world matters and i'm not saying that is but like just consider what you're up against and i also tell them there's a lot of luck and and they don't

want to hear that they don't want to hear that and then i tell them about like you know the things i had to grind through and they don't want to hear that. And they just they kind of talk over me. They tell me about like, well, Reddit said this. And I'm like, well, there's your first problem. Yeah. Get off the Internet, first of all. And I'm just Tyler's no different. All right. Bachelorette, I think any of these guys would pull her down, not bring her up. Yeah. She is literally above them in terms of her opportunities in her career. And unless she is this over the moon in love with their souls, I think it would be a waste of her time. Do you feel like it was silly for her to go on Paradise?

No, I think it was amazing for her to go on. And I think Paradise is fun. Like it's the only Bachelor experience I had where it was just, like, fun. It was, like, chill. And being someone who had to share the spotlight on the Bachelorette, I totally get why she wanted to come on. But I just hope she gets TV time. Yeah.

You know? And I hope it's a way, you know, I don't need her to find love here. Yeah. It's not for her to find love. Mm-hmm. They'd have to bring in a ringer. And there are no ringers here. No.

Is my two cents on that. I mean, speaking of bringing in a ringer, should we get to Golden Bachelor? Yeah. Gary continues. We saved the best for last. I don't know if this is going to land. That's a great way to preface something.

This is a compliment. He has such a big bird energy. That's so endearing and so like, everything's okay. And the words he uses is so sweet, but it's like as if Big Bird is talking to one of the kids

on Sesame Street. Yeah, it is endearing. Yeah. Not to jump ahead, but when Joan tells him she's leaving, he goes, oh, that makes me sad because I was so happy this morning i got up and started dancing i know what

but then he was so mature and he was able to like manage his emotion and he even said it he was like i've processed my emotions even though it was disappointing like i'm ready to like you just that's where the maturity comes through that we don't see in usual seasons. Totally. That mature that like he's actually been through this. He's been through loss. He's been through life and a lot of like things that don't work out for him

and knows how to react to them as an adult. Yeah. How have you been enjoying this season? I think everybody can agree that like Gary is just like the biggest charmer sweetheart in the world. This and I think so many of the women seem spectacular. This was the first episode where we got any kind of like drama. How have you been?

I don't love the drama. I mean, I'm into this Askin group. I think it's a fun group. And I think their tagline was so cute. But I feel like this is shining. Like Golden Bachelor is being so is become so beloved because it doesn't have the silliness of the drama and it doesn't have like the headiness. Catty girl fights or guy fights or jealousy things like that. Of course, that's happening.

But to me, I was like, I don't love this. I don't mind it because I don't think that's why people love it. Really? I think people love it for the sincerity. Yeah. Again, you have a cast of people who, if they know Instagram, they're just not here for the gram. They're not here for the attention.

Yeah. These are people who are at a point in their life who left Joan. Yeah. Yeah. What's her quote? I mean, what a quote. When you're older, you become invisible. Yes.

That quote? Yes. older you become invisible yes yes what can you the whole thing maybe my heart got a little fixed from jerry he's helped with the journey because as you get older you become more invisible people don't see you anymore like you're not as significant when you're young yeah i was like first of all you are fucking stunning and i feel like it and not and but like let's just like before we gas Joan up, let's just give her like let's just recognize what she had to say before we dismiss it by like, you know, I'm not dismissing it. I'm saying it's like I think people might have the delusion that like somebody who is so beautiful, like might be immune to this kind of treatment. So I think it's even more powerful hearing it from this person who is clearly being so vulnerable and honest because the world doesn't talk enough about like you know getting older like 50s 60s 70s and like the world

does dismiss you it takes you for granted it rolls its eyes at you it tells you you're out of touch you're not you know the cool up-and-coming time, I mean, boy, when hearing her say that, it's just really, that is what makes this show so good. That's what makes it good is like, you see this exhilaration from all these moments. And I think someone said that too, like, I feel so exhilarated, you know, and that exhilaration comes through in all these moments. And that exhilaration comes through in all these moments. And it's an appreciation for a happy moment or a good time or something exciting and fun. And I think that's what it's like people appreciating little heartfelt moments, having appreciation for a group date, having appreciation for a one-on-one date, having appreciation for making a friend, appreciation for making a connection.

And we're just, we don't live in a time where we're appreciating shit. We are just, it is all about the scandal or the drama of it all. And like, you know what I'm saying? Yeah.

Like, and now you have a bunch of people just showing like that there's good in the, not to sound cheesy, but like that there is something that we can look forward to and appreciate

and happiness. And like the world just needs a little bit of uplift like that. Yeah. And the Golden Bachelor is giving it to us. 100%. I have to give producers a little bit of credit there, too, because they aren't cutting around stuff. They aren't cutting around. I mean, maybe they are that we're not seeing even more, but they're showing some of those really heartfelt moments.

And these conversations like Jones, it wasn't cut off. It wasn't turned into drama and her leaving and being so dramatic. Like they're like, oh, we have these people who are really, really putting themselves out there and taking them away from their really important things in their life. Like this is the second person who's like, hey, my kid needs me. I got to go. Like this is real life. The inner struggle of I am doing something for the first time and maybe I don't know how many years for me. And yet I still have to be a mom and the importance of being a mom that was to her and how meaningful it was.

And this that struggle was beautiful in a way that like, you know, I hope she still gets to prioritize herself at times. But we especially with our parents, you know, I think. And again, in 2023, I see it with my younger siblings. I think there's this attitude with the younger generation of that their parents' only purpose in life is them. 100%. That their parents' only reason for existing is to like take them to soccer fucking practice or sign them up for some class or whatever, or give them a million hugs.

And if they don't, it's like their parents fucked up. They have trauma and they have to go to therapy to, you know, overcome what their parents did wrong for them. And listen, there's a lot of bad parents out there. It's hard to be a parent and parents make mistakes. But like, again, it's just like, it was so beautiful to see how much love Joan had for her kids and just the struggle that people have as they get later in life to have to choose between like serving themselves and giving themselves quality time and their kids. My parents sacrificed their whole fucking lives for their kids. Yeah. And I still have ungrateful siblings, you know?

Yeah. No, 100%. My dad's my best friend. And I feel like I hope people get this from the show. Something I do is I have my friends make fun of me for it because I have hour long conversations with my dad almost daily. We talk on the phone. And I feel like during those conversations, we talk about so many real things in the world that so my niece and nephew even have this thought like, well, we can't have real conversations with them. They're old. Like they don't they don't know. I'm like, they know better

than most of us. Like they they've lived a whole life and they put everything in. Their perspective is so clear. I will say, I feel like the silver lining to the pandemic, I got stuck up in Syracuse with my parents for the first time as an adult living at home for four months. And I was like, I got to know my parents as people rather than just parents, my dad and my stepmom. And I was like, oh, they're really, really good people who I don't think I realize until you spend that kind of time. And this is a show that kind of shows that these really, really good people who have been through it, who have this life experience that you need to. I mean, that really helps if you're looking for real love on TV. You told us before we started recording that you had conversations with Rob Mills, the head of Unscripted of ABC about coming on The Golden Bachelor as a suitor. I highly considered it, I will say. I think with my job, it wouldn't work. It was a definite conversation that I had with him because I've been unlucky in love for a while and I'm a relationship junkie. So I'm like, maybe, you know, maybe that's the time I'm attracted to older men.

I think he's a little bit older than I would want to go because he's my dad's age. And I think that's a little bit creepy in that world. But yeah, I mean, I considered it for a minute. I'm not going to lie. I wanted them to bring on a younger ringer. I would have been it would have been so hated, though, because it would have looked like you would have been drama. Yeah, it would have been the girl who's like, this girl is on here to become Instagram fame.

You know? Yeah. Having seen the show, I'm glad like, this girl is on here to become Instagram fame. You know? Yeah. Having seen the show, I'm glad they didn't do it. I'm very glad. You would have. People have been like, they would have just hated you just because. Just because. Immediately.

Immediately. Immediately hated. I'd immediately been the villain. Like, no, no, no, no. Like one of the ladies was like, my husband died. And you're just like, I don't get my favorite snack today. I'm like, I need this now. No, no, no.

Yeah, it definitely is a good thing. I don't think I could do reality TV anyways, but yeah, it was a conversation. I mean, I was like, Rob, maybe I should do this. Maybe this is it. Who is the lovely golden lady who was starting all the drama? What's her name again? Kathy and Teresa. Teresa and Kathy were the two that were going.

But like Kathy is 100% wrong, right? Kathy was offended that Teresa was telling her how great her relationship was. Yeah, I know. Or her relationship with Bachelor was.

But I think Kathy is 100% wrong. Not even 99. I don't know about 100%. I can see why she is a little bit frustrated by that. But I think maybe just telling Teresa

about it is better. aren't necessarily Teresa's fault. No, 100. Yeah, I guess. But I think we see this every season, no matter what, of the one girl who feels really confident and then who's bragging about it. But I don't think Teresa feels that she was bragging. I think she was just like, I'm just talking about my day. Yeah. Someone who maybe went on the first date in 20 years and is excited and she thinks she's making friends and she's telling her friends, these people don't know how to date the same guy. And I love how they called it out. Like, hey, I think we're finally realizing we're dating the same guy. You show up for the first date. It's all fun and games. No one knows the lead.

No one knows each other. It's summer camp. Things move fast in this world as they often do. People start going on dates on these dates you make some significant connections and you want to talk about it and you don't think you're being rude at all and like where was theresa bragging she was like oh i had a really nice time and it was really sweet and like i, they bonded over being with, like losing their partners. It's like, that wasn't bragging. Kathy's like, shut the fuck up. I think Kathy was doing some really clear projecting when she said, Teresa's looking at me like,

I have a connection. I'm better than you. Like that, I could totally see Teresa maybe like sharing some details that Kathy's like, this, please don't. Like, this is not, like, I would rather not hear this. Kathy was very willing to kind of interpret Teresa's behavior in a very like steadfast way.

She decided what Kathy's intentions were. Kathy decided what Teresa's intentions were. And then told Teresa about it. And then when Teresa was like, oh, my God, I'm so sorry. I didn't realize Kathy's like, shut the fuck up. You're not going to get away with it. Don't cry. You know, like, you know, you did.

But then even when. Holy shit. up you're not gonna get away with it don't cry you know like you know you did but then even when holy shit even when gary came in to comfort her in the bedroom and she was like he was so nice he came into the bedroom kathy was pissed she said the bad bedroom she was pissed that she brought it up although i saw a little bit of annoyance on gary's face yeah for like having to deal with 100 the drama i was gonna ask you about that because I feel like that every season we see that with like the lead being like, this is a little annoying. Is it annoying? Oh my God.

It's the worst. Cause they're like, Hey, so-and-so is crying upstairs. Go do something. And you're like, the fuck am I going to do? You know, I don't, I don't know these people, you know? And like, you're there just to mediate. I want to see Gary get a little annoyed. Are we ever going to see Gary get mad?

I do think they're going to raise the stakes. I think we're going to see him distraught. I don't. We'll definitely distraught. I'm curious if like anger is a flavor. I sat down with him for an interview and I was very much like, I can't imagine this man even getting a temper. Like I can imagine him getting upset.

He's like, we've seen him get emotional multiple times, but a temper, I don't know. Here's the thing. These people are all just people. Unlike Love is Blind, that is willing to show warts and all for everyone, The Bachelor notoriously had its heroes and its villains. And Gary is an incredible first Golden Bachelor who plays the role beautifully. He really is. But he's also a human being. Right.

Like, there's no way Gary's walking this earth only showing this energy 100% of the time. Because if he was, we would think there's actually something wrong with him. Right, right, right. You know?

But he's doing a great job playing this role, and I'm sure he is capable of having a bad day. Totally. And being frustrated to the point where he says oh my god i lost my temper i'm sorry yeah you know and shit like that but i hope we see it i will i like to see a whole person like i like to see someone who can be like oh this is another side

of me i'm a little frustrated i hope to see it too but i unfortunately don't think our audience is gonna like our audience like just reality it's so black and white these days there's just no nuance everyone wants to pick a team everyone wants to side with who they relate to the most or who they like the most or see themselves in or see their exes in yeah and that because that's the thing with cat you know the cat and the whole like brayden i mean you know what the truth is the the only right response is it's just not that serious cat right you know it's just not that serious you don't need to make a public statement like criticizing some other guy but cat goes on a show then she goes and reads her own press on reddit and she's seeing all these criticisms about her

so she feels like the whole world's talking about her and she needs to go on her instagram and make a smaller story even bigger because that's what happens when you talk about your own fucking story on your platform. You just elevate it. Yeah. You know, a story that you don't want anyone talking about.

But you're posting about it. But you're posting about it. You know, you just make it the story. And the real answer is, it's just not that serious. It's a fucking reality TV show about like fucking dating and feelings. Right. But then bachelor it's like in jones case it's like it this show is like this is real life and this is serious and like this this may not be that serious but like

my kid is so i need to go home to that that's why i feel like there's also that that was great i mean i think that that's another reason why the golden bachelor has been doing better in the ratings has been doing you know overall people are enjoying it more because it's real people. There's a freshness to it. Yeah. There's sincerity. I've cried in every episode. Me too.

While trying not to cry. Yeah. Like, this is not me. You just really connect to people. I think it's so much easier to connect to people, which is interesting because they're all much older than I am. But I feel like there's a connection there much more than I do on like Paradise. It's real. There's sincerity. It's like connection there much more than I do on like Paradise. It's real. There's sincerity.

It's like I don't believe anyone in Bachelor in Paradise. It seems like there's actual stakes. Yeah. It seems like there's stakes on Golden Bachelor. Absolutely. Like these people, it does seem like for the first time in a while that like we have seen for so long that it seems like the contestants are looking for fame a bit more than a connection. And this actually looks like, no, I'm on partnership.

Most of these people probably don't care about social media. No, like Joan leaves and she's like, I'm disappointed that this ended early, but I feel like this showed me that like I can find love.

Yes. I can have like a second chapter at this. Whereas like if you leave like The Bachelor, Bachelor in Paradise, it's like, oh, you know,

maybe I got like a thousand followers out of this, you know, like they're not. Well, it's true because when you get older, the world tells you what you're not supposed to do anymore. You know, you're not supposed to do anymore you know you're not supposed to dress like that you're not supposed to act like that you're you're supposed to do x you're supposed

to do z you know you're supposed to just shut up and raise your kids or you're not supposed to date you're not supposed to date you're supposed to like age gracefully and all this shit like whatever that means yeah and i and it's like in a way you see all these people who have subscribed to that mentality of just like, you know, having their family, raising their kids and then like dying quietly. Right. And here you have these people, like all I know, you know what I know about getting older

is like you never just, you never feel old, which is why when people always call in and they're like 24 years old and I'm like, I know you don't feel this, but you're young. Right. You know, because you're just, you're not, I remember my dad when I was a kid telling me like, you know, he was probably younger than me where I was at the time being like, I feel this, like when I look in the mirror, I still, I still like it's, I'm the kid in high school type of thing. It's like, yeah, you have more memories, you have more lived experiences,

but you're not like, you don't really see yourself differently. And I don't remember, I don't remember. I remember not really understanding what he was trying to say at the time. Yeah, no, a hundred percent. It's so funny. I was in a relationship all my twenties. So I'm 33 now. So it's been three years single. And I feel like the exact same. Like I, no, I'm like, oh, I'm still in my twenties. And then, you know, I go on the apps to try to date and which is unsuccessful. And I'm like, oh, no, this is a different time of my life. Like I very become very aware of it very quickly. Yeah. But almost like too much.

You judge yourself more. You tell yourself what you criticize yourself for being adventurous or getting out of your comfort zone. And yeah, like it seems like these women who have gone on, if nothing else, it'll be them giving themselves permission to continue to like get out there take more risk have some fun seek out that exhilaration that they're finding in this in this scenario and it's awesome yeah joan could totally be the first golden bachelorette oh my god i could i would so be here for that yeah And I really liked that she wasn't like super confident during the challenge that she like

got up and said a poem and was like not fully sure if she could do it. And it just like seemed so. Found her own way. Yes. So I feel like that's my push for Golden Bachelorette. Okay. I like it. I have no problem with that.

I just really just got to find the men. That's the rough thing, right? I think it might be tougher the other way. Yeah. I would imagine it'd be tougher to find 30 Garys. Yeah. You know? Yeah.

But I also think if they wanted to, they would. Yeah. And also, this show saved the franchise. Oh, yeah. 100%. I mean- It was very necessary. Prior to the ratings that they're getting on Golden Bachelor. It was just a bunch of executives making excuses that people just watch different TV differently and just being like no one. No one watches it on network television. But clearly, that's not the case. You've seen the bump with the success that they're having with Golden Bachelor. Do you think there's a world where the main show is Golden Bachelor and everything else is falls on the

wayside I don't think that is a world we're in yet I don't think they're ready to throw in like maybe they maybe they age up the regular Bachelor do you think Golden Bachelor will help who's the current who is a new Bachelor Joey Joey no I think it might hurt because

I think people are gonna at the end of Golden Bachelor turn on Joey and be like, nope. That's true. But you know who's going to be a- It's almost too much success. Yeah. But it's going to be, oh my God, best cameo ever when Gary comes back to visit people to host a date.

To give advice to Joey. Yes. Yeah. Oh, that's going to be so much better. I hope they do that. They definitely should. I gotta. Yeah.

And Gary's so game to do stuff. I don't know if you guys saw, he went around to a bunch of retirement homes and surprised people. Did he? And ABC did a 200 retirement home screenings of an episode around the country. And I went to one in Sherman Oaks and he came and surprised the women. And it was the coolest thing I'd ever seen. His interactions with them, it was just so sincere, so normal.

Like the women were so happy. It was the sweetest thing I'd ever seen. His interactions with them, it was just so sincere, so normal. The women were so happy. It was the sweetest thing I've ever seen. There was a 92-year-old woman who lost her husband two years before, and they were married for 75 years. And she was like, I want to date Gary. And it was the cutest thing ever. It was so adorable. I love that. Yeah. Yeah. But it's interesting how it might affect Joey's season. Yeah. I think people might not want to watch the cattiness of women after seeing the mature women on this season it's not the cattiness for me it's the insincerity of

everyone yes isn't the emphasis on petty drama over like i'm sure people say some really beautiful profound things in confessionals that just never makes it to air because it's like considered boring as opposed to like the tea no i don't so maybe they're saying profound things they would air it i think you're unfortunate yeah i think you're giving i feel like you're of all cast a benefit of the doubt they've deprioritized love stories though in the past i really don't i don't i don't think they have deprioritized i think that's what they're working with a bad groceries well do you think they're casting the wrong people then that maybe too right because they're so young so young that's what i'm thinking maybe they age up the normal bachelor where they

don't cast 22 year old women looking for love because it felt like that but their best bachelors and joey is not much different is like they love a bachelor with the exception of i guess me who like their storyline is more of a lack of experience a lack of past relationships a lack of adversity in their dating life other than like yeah i kind of did it around and whatever all of these women and gary you don't have to be 70 right to be able to come into one of these shows with with some life lessons with some heartbreak uh with some a few years of being like yeah i really saw love differently than i see it now and i've done some work on myself and i'm here to really like give love a shot you don't need to be 70 to do that you can be 28 yeah like suzy i feel like is a really good example of that of someone who's

really substantive really like who you just really root for naturally but I don't think it's because the show doesn't care about love that you're not seeing it I just think it's harder for them to find because I think they're just casting a bunch of people who want to be famous yeah they want to be influencers yeah and

coupled that with the fact that the people they are prioritizing are on the younger side of things. How can you expect these people to give any shits about anything else other than being influencers? Like 22-year-olds, I'm sorry, but don't have a ton of life experience yet. I would only care about influencing if I were given a chance to go on this show. Yeah, they haven't been through major heartbreak. Most people at 22 have not experienced like a really good heartbreak.

So I agree with you that their fault is in the casting. Yeah. It's not that once they get to set, they're not caring about love. I think it's the people they're choosing to cast on this show. Well, I think that about wraps it up. Emily, so much fun. Thanks for having me. You don't have to come back.

I will be back. Any final thoughts before we wrap? Any? Okay. All right. Great. You'll have to come back. I will be back. Any final thoughts before we wrap? Any, any, any? Okay. All right. Great. Still thinking about Tyler's mysterious business.

Weird. What is it called? Balls and stuff? Solar? Oh, not balls. Solar balls? Solar spiritual something. Spirit ball.

Weird. I'll have to make a trip to New Jersey next time I'm home. Yeah. Emily, where can people find you? I'm at Emily Longretta on all platforms and covering all sorts of TV for Variety.

Spell your last name for our audience. Oh, just how it sounds. It's L-O-N-G-E-R-E-T-T-A. All right. Well, follow Emily. She puts out some great stuff. All Things Pop Culture

along with Elizabeth. You can read that to just go to Variety.com as well. Always great commentary from them. Thanks for listening, guys. Don't forget, we have episode two of Izzy dropping this Thursday. We also have the one and only Nikki Glaser with us on Thursday to kick off the episode.

Talk about FBoy Island, which is kicking off. We got Katie, who's one of the leads for that. Nikki's with us. We'll also, I'm sure, get into Taylor Swift with Nikki as well as other pop culture topics. And then, again, Thursday's Going Deeper is with Izzy

to talk about all the aftermath of Love is Blind, kind of get into the weeds with what happened with him and Stacey afterwards. Well, you can decide for yourself

whether he was played or not. You can also find out what Izzy's credit score was. It was low. Telling the people what they want to know. It was low. It needed some work, you know. It was, was in fairness to stacy an alarming number okay but not one with that still nevertheless i

would have you can work through it if you want to yeah you can work through it you can get it back up if you really want to if you really want to uh so that's on thursday uh we got black china slash angela white uh next week going deeper so much for you on the Vow Files. So excited to bring it to you all. Don't forget to send in those questions at fsnickofthevowfiles.com for all things texting, office hours, Going Deeper, mediation, or sweating the wedding. Not Going Deeper.

You know what I mean. Okay, bye. Bye.