The Viall Files - E655 Going Deeper with Izzy Zapata Part II Plus Special Forces and FBoy Island with Nikki Glaser

Episode Date: October 19, 2023

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Going Deeper Edition! First, the household gets together with special guest Nikki Glaser to discuss some recent pop culture headlines - like Special Forces Episode 4, Nikki’s time filming FBoy Island, and why we think Taylor and Travis might be end game. Then, we are joined by Izzy Zapata to talk about the Love is Blind finale and reunion. What did he think about Stacy leaving him at the altar, and what happened between them after the cameras stopped rolling? We also have a Texting Office Hours caller who has been having a flirty friendship with her coworker, but isn’t sure if he’s into her as more than a friend.  “How important is reciprocity in a relationship?” Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes. Join us for our new LIVE show on Thursdays at 9PM ET/6PM PT on Amp, available in the Apple app store. Android User? Listen here: https://www.onamp.com/   To Order Nick’s Book Go To: http://www.viallfiles.com  If you would like to get some texting advice on Office Hours send an email to [e-mail] with “Texting Office Hours” in the subject line! To advertise on the show, contact [e-mail] or visit https://www.advertisecast.com/TheViallFiles  THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: IQ Bar - Refuel smarter with IQBAR’s Ultimate Sampler Pack. That’s 7 IQBARs, 4 IQMIX sticks, and 4 IQJOE sticks. And now, our special podcast listeners get twenty percent off all IQBAR products, plus get FREE shipping. Just text FILES to 64000. EveryPlate - Get started with EveryPlate for just $1.49 per meal by going to https://www.EveryPlate.com/podcast and entering code 49viall.  Vuori - Vuori is an investment in your happiness. For our listeners they are offering 20% off your first purchase. Get yourself some of the most comfortable and versatile clothing on the planet at https://www.vuori.com/viall  Drizly - Drizly is the best and most convenient way to gift beer, wine, and spirits for any little moment, with delivery right to your giftee’s door. Use code VIALL to receive $5 off or $0 delivery fee* off your first order. *  Must be 21+. Not valid in all states. Codes cannot be combined with any other offers. Not valid at all retailers. Code expires 10/31/23 11;59pm EST. Brooklinen - It’s no trick–Brooklinen’s best-selling linens are sure to curb those seasonal scaries this fall.  Visit in-store or online at https://www.Brooklinen.com and use code VIALL for $20 off your order of $100 or more. Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @nikkiglaser @izzyzapata_ @alison.vandam @liffordthebigreddog @dereklanerussell @genevievegoodman 

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That's Files to 64,000. Message and data rates may apply. See terms for details. What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to another very exciting episode of The Vile Files Going Deeper Edition. I'm your host, Nick, joined by the entire household. We got Genevieve, Amanda, Derek, and Allie in studio. And filling in for our pop culture correspondent, Nally Joy is out planning a wedding in Savannah, Georgia. So the one and only very good friend of show, the hilarious Nikki Glaser is with us.

Hello, it's good to be back. How are you, Nikki? I'm so good. It's an important episode. I don't know, have you, there's so much content on TV right now. We got FBoy Island just dropped. We got Special Forces and we got Golden Bachelor, Bachelor in Paradise, special forces that i'm on we got golden bachelor bachelor in paradise love is blind my god it's a lot it's a great time to be us we're trying to cover it all

izzy uh izzy zapata returns the vile files for his part two interview with us in this episode right after nikki so much it's jam-packed we have so to get into. Also, Nikki is with us to do texting office hours. So it's a fun one. Get excited about that. That will be in the middle of the Izzy episode for all of those tuning in. If you are tuning in for the first time, you know, because your love is blind fan and you're trying to get the Izzy tea, welcome. We're happy to have you.

We're here all week long, almost every day. A lot of relationship stuff on Monday. We got our reality TV recaps on Tuesday and our Going Deeper episodes that you're listening to now with always a special guest. Look at this empire you've built. We have our intro.

Yeah, it's a lot, Nikki. Yeah, this is really nice. Thank you. I really, like, I'm loving the vibe here. I can't believe you're on Special Forces. Can we just, like, jump in? Sure, yeah, jump in. Okay, first of all,

was it an immediate yes for you when you got asked to do the show? Yeah. Okay, this show's insane. Had you just jump in? Sure. Okay. First of all, was it an immediate yes for you when you got asked to do the show? Yeah. Okay. This show's insane. Had you seen it before? Well, no. I had seen the previews. Hannah Brown was on the first season. I saw Hannah on there. Did very well. When a preview for that season came on, Natalie and I were watching TV, and she

told me, if you get asked, you have to do this. And I was like, part of me is, I'm definitely one of those people, I like to challenge like see what i'm capable of i leave a very lead a very privileged and charmed life and it's like one of those things you at this point in my life it's i feel lucky to have an opportunity to you know kind of see what the fuck i'm capable of you know i mean this tested yeah and then i also wanted to turn on natalie it was like really mostly about cute you know because she was like do that like is she's like you gotta be having a fun time watching it yeah

like you could tell like she's like it's a hot she's like it would be hot to see you do this and i was like all right say less uh that's so cute i love that that was your reasoning because it's it would be terrifying i thought the same thing as i was watching it today i was like i hope they don't ask me to do this because I'll have to say yes. You should do it. Because I love a chat. It's a nightmare. I would be immediately, I would probably be first voted off like I was on Dancing with the Stars, but I like

something that... You're not voted off. You quit. I mean, I would be first. I'd vote myself off. It's whatever. They pay you whatever. They pay you. It's a nice little paycheck. And you can leave the first five minutes or you can stay to the end. And you still get the same amount? Doesn't matter. So you're really staying for yourself. It's totally personal pride. It's personal pride.

And you get more airtime. Sure. I guess there's that. But it is personal pride because there's not per episode. There's no incentive. There's no incentive. Financially. None.

Okay. So you go in and they're so mean to you. So mean. When did you film this? I filmed it end of June. Okay. It was wintertime in New Zealand. Oh, it's in New Zealand?

Yeah, New Zealand. But it was winter. We were in the mountains. So it was like, you know, 30 degrees and snowing. When did they start being mean to you? When did it go from like...

Oh my God, like from the moment it started. Were the producers like, hey, welcome off the plane? The producers, yeah, the producers are all nice, but you know,

it's not like a normal, like you know how to make, you know, reality TV shows. It's a, you know, it's not like a normal like you're you know, how to, you know, reality TV shows. It's a you know, there's no interaction with producers. This was a true simulation. You were completely off the grid. There's just cameras everywhere. We didn't talk to producers.

I was picturing you guys like getting miked and how like you've had like a long day and they're like, can we just test your mic? You're like, oh, well, even so they would do like battery changes. That was the only interaction we ever had with production. Wow, so this is real. And even the battery change people would like only refer to us by our numbers. They would order us around to kind of keep the- Dehumanize you. Literally.

And you're sleeping in barracks, like you're sleeping on- Cots. Cots. Yeah. With like no padding, really. None. None padding? No.

Just wood? Just like, I don't know, cloth. What do you eat? Prison food. Like boiled meat. Oh my God. Yeah, it was terrible. That was the hardest part. not in padding no just wood just like a i don't know cloth what do you eat uh prison food like boiled meat oh my god yeah it was terrible that was the hardest part for me i'm a picky eater it was the hardest part because it was vegan they would sort of make boiled or they'll call you a pussy and put a bag over your head and kick you no they would just it was like steamed like mixed vegetables it would like it was like a bunch of like it was a smorgasbord mean they're all like

it's almost like you all they like you fucked you fucked their moms or something. They're like, so mad at you all that you're like, what did I do? Why are you yelling at me? That was how I was. I was just like, I needed a hug. Yeah, that was, was that you that said that this episode? That was so funny. Okay, so I'm watching the episode. I didn't know you were on it. I thought we were just going to recap it. So I'm watching it this morning as I'm getting hair and makeup done. And I can't really watch it because you know they're putting pencils in my eye and it was just a different show that I'm doing

a special forces show just getting your hair and makeup done every day and I heard that joke and I was like that is so whoever said that's so funny I didn't know who it was and then I didn't know you were on the show but I was sincere I was just like I really needed some positive reinforcement I could hear it in your voice I was like that's not just like, it needed some positive reinforcement.

I could hear it in your voice. I was like, that's a funny thing to say, but it's also really vulnerable. They're clearly breaking these people down. Kelly Rizzo quits on this show. She did. Yeah.

She's a friend of mine. Yeah. I liked how they prefaced it with, she was like, if I quit, I beat myself up about it forever. And you're like, wow,

she's not going to quit this time and right away. I mean, she was in her defense already struggling. Her body was already shut down. She wanted to quit before that thing. Right. She was ready to quit. But, you know, I will say the DSs did a good job of like trying to push you to quit at the right time.

Because it's not like when Brian Austin Green left, you didn't see that episode. He was just like he just kind of quit in the middle of like the day it's just very undramatic yeah kind of doesn't come on kelly just do this yeah because kelly looked like a badass like pushing herself she did to the her extreme you know so even when there was no other option for her correct and she looked a lot better quitting when she quit rather than if she got her way of not putting herself through that and like by the way that boat that we carried we carried it for like two fucking miles that whole thing i wanted to know how far it was at least two miles it let that whole thing lasted at least three hours and then when you when the losing team were you on the losing team or winning

team winning team okay the losing team had to run back how long was that run because i wanted to know they should have told us i mean this, this isn't, this is really hard. Yeah, I don't know why they're not like letting us know. Let's go the distance because I was thinking as I watched it, this is probably not that long because these are celebrities and they're trying to make it look harder than it is. Why not tell us how hard it is? It was so much harder than it looks. Well, Tyler Cameron is vomiting, right? And then the guy goes, we want you to stand up when you vomit.

So he's bending over vomiting and then he he gets yelled at. You stand up. We want to see you vomit. So he stands up. It's just projectiles. And that was I was almost getting turned on by this because they're so like it's like I hate to be foul or, you know, raunchy about this. But this is kind of like the porn I watch. Not like vomiting, but like men like kind of yelling at you you're pushing the choir here i think i would like

orgasm a lot like on this show i think i would be like horned up by people being like you can do it go harder and like pushing the limits there's something like really i get why this is uh this turned on your lady because i i was like and then you're all fighting each other it's very erotic oh we had to run at least a half a mile before we even fought and keep in mind those backpacks weigh like 30 pounds so they would just everything we would do they would make sure that we were exhausted before we did it and then the thing that we had to do always lasted forever like the fights there were like three rounds, you know, it wasn't just like one round. It like,

it were, and that was the thing I had. That was the most exhausting thing. I, the only feeling I felt was exhaustion. I didn't feel anything. You didn't feel the punches. No.

Well, I think Tom and I mostly like, we didn't land any real good punches on each other. I think we kind of grazed each other because they did. They said like, we don't want you boxing. We want, we want you throwing as many punches as possible.

They don't want us, like, dancing and trying to, like, maneuver for a good shot. They just wanted you to... Throwing haymakers. Oh, my God. So, like, we were just constantly off balance and falling, you know what I'm saying? Like, so we didn't have any, like, good weight behind us

and things like that. We were just fucking exhausted. From the time you got asked to do the show to when you get off the plane in New Zealand, how long is that time how long do you have to train for this oh i didn't have any time to train i was gonna say the turnaround on this is quick probably they called us i think most of the people on the show we were asking like when do you sign up for this like two weeks before it's you have no time no time so so you're just thrown into this thing and at this at this point in the show now four episodes and are you are you

okay like are you breaking down are you questioning can i get through the rest of this so up into this point up into this point the first three days i was like i'm i'm gonna fucking finish this shit yeah i think i can do this you know but this episode that we just watched episode four that boat thing that lasted forever and the fighting like that after that day. And that was like an 18 hour day. Oh yeah. And it was an 18 hour day. And like, again, not just getting the nutrients. I just felt weak. And I could tell after that day, I was like, I don't know if I, I don't know if I could do this. And next episode you see me just get fucking destroyed. And you're, you're not eating enough probably. And you're not sleeping.

I'm getting like 25 of the calories i usually get and working out four or five times harder than i ever had at least that oh my god yeah how much sleep do you get yeah you know honestly we the day would start at 7 a.m and end at midnight so we got seven hours so that's not like a normal day but also but keep in mind in between down in between all the crazy shit they'd have us do at this point like day three they did this whole speech about like soldiers don't get ready they stay ready and they kept saying that to us we're like what the fuck yeah i don't know but because they would constantly just like test us and yell at recruits and we'd have to like jump

up and be ready or they'd make us do fucking push or burpees or whatever or punish us so i said burpees as you were burping yeah that's cool so the whole time there was no like r and r it was like we were just ready sitting at the edge of our bed waiting to be called you guys are so our heart rates were just at constantly going even when we were chilling oh so i'll show you a picture at the end where you just like fucking shredded you came back oh man yeah i gave it all back and yeah right away that's nuts did you get um do you feel like i mean you've done other shows obviously before did you feel like the bonding experience with the castmates like do you guys were you so just in your own head that you didn't really talk and bond with them or is this something that

you're always going to be like wow we went through this together we've all been even watching the episodes together like even like tom sandoval like i didn't know him i talked a lot of shit about him on the show yeah i told him about it when i was there but like yeah you just have to bond i'm doing his podcast later today you are and i was like wait this is so weird i'm watching the show that i'm doing tom's podcast later and then i go wait is that nick wait i'm doing nicks i was like this is so weird uh you're doing tom's? You're doing his pom? Yeah, I got asked to do it, and my publicists were like, do you want to do this? And I'm like,

wait, did he murder someone? I don't understand what, did he? You have not been following Scandival? I think this episode that we watched, I thought was really interesting, because when people ask me, what is Tom Scandival like? I'm like, that's how he is. He's just, he is the character that is on Vanderpump.

Can I just get the story straight going into this? I'm sorry to ask you to give me some research going into another podcast. But like he feels bad about it. Do we believe that he feels bad about it? Or do we are we like, oh, you just feel bad because you got caught? Because this is my problem when people get caught doing something bad and then they apologize and everyone goes, you're only apologizing to get your career back.

That's the only reason why you said that. You just want to be uncanceled and it's like, yes, I think that's true but can't they also be sorry too? Like, haven't you ever been sorry

and also wanted your job back? Can't, can't we hold both? Sure, but in the episode there's a scene on Special Forces where Tom,

where he's gotten a lot of heat for this, which is kind of like your point and Howie Mandel got a lot of shit for it because it's kind of like the whole like everyone cheats. What's the big deal kind of commentary, which people who have been cheated on, like, just don't want to hear that. It's the best friend part. Yeah, brutal. We've been watching Vanderpump back. And I think the way Tom sees this is my guess is that, you know, all these people cheat on this show. And some of the people are great. I've met and, you know, like Katie Maloney, a friend.

She's super fucking normal. Like, I'm still waiting for like this moment where it's just like, oh, that's Katie's like villain arc. But I've yet to see it. But everyone else on this fucking show is cheating and getting other people pregnant and gaslighting their friends and lying. So Tom, I think, is looking through the lens of like, I'm just like doing what everyone else has done. They've all gotten through it. They've all moved on, you know, because this was like eight, nine years ago when it started. So Tom's thinking it is this like, I mean, yeah, I fuck someone else.

But like, whatevs. Literally every one of my peers have done it. And I just think he sees the world through that lens. Well, it's not. I think a lot of people that cheat do. I just think he sees the world through that lens. Well, it's not. I think a lot of people that cheat do.

I have a person that was in my life and he was in a relationship and I was just sensing like, I think you're going to cheat on this girl. And he was like, I don't think so. And then he started golfing and hanging out with like men who golf. And then he just started being like, just saying things that I'm like, you're going to because he's surrounded by people who like golfers, like men on the golf course, they're talking about cheating. He comes from a long line of family of cheaters. And I was like, oh, this guy, like because of the culture he's in, because of the people you surround yourself with, he's going to do it. Like you're saying, like I'm not excusing it, but I think they they normalize it. Like if you're trying to stop drinking and you go out and you are with people who are drinking, you can find places to normalize it. Like if you're trying to stop drinking and you go out and you are with people who are drinking, you can find places to normalize drinking for you, even though you know in the back of your head, I have a problem.

I shouldn't be doing this. I should go to a meeting. You can go, let me just surround myself with people that make this be like, it's just not a big deal. We're drinking. This is a bar. It's legal. You can always find people who are going to justify and kind of enable you to do what

you're doing and make it seem pretty normalized. And I think that's what Vanderpump rules are. When we were on Special Forces, I was in the Jeep with them for like an hour ride and they didn't air this because they just didn't have time. But I basically had like a podcast interview with them and I just asked them all these questions. We had a good conversation, you know, it was a lot of like back and forth and there's a lot of agreeing to disagree type of, you know, stuff. I was like, but how can anyone in the future trust you not to cheat? Are you willing to make infidelity a non-negotiable for you going forward? And his

answer was like, I don't believe in absolutes was his answer, which was like, I don't ever want to never say never because I would be lying if I did that. And the way he answered it was like, you could tell him, you know, trying to be earnest and honest about that situation. But this the disconnect that him and I had about the topic of infidelity, I just thought was kind of fascinating. I kind of agree with him of like people. What do you agree with? What I agree with is that you can say you're not going to cheat. You can stand on the altar and do these vows. No one in their whole life has been able to predict how they're going to respond to certain things that come up. You don't know what's going to happen.

So for you, you can say, I hope I never cheat on you. It is not my intention to ever cheat on you again. If I was with someone, that is the best they could promise me. To say to be like, I will never cheat on you. That's not true. You have low expectations of people then. Because that might be an honest. I think humans don't understand what they're capable of.

That's fair. But that's the most honest way of saying is that at the end of the day, I don't fully trust my character to make the difficult decision in a vulnerable environment. What I'm saying is I don't trust my character 20 years down the road when our relationship is in shambles, when I don't like you anymore, you don't like me anymore, because I've seen it happen before. We're happy couples down the road. It takes a horrible turn. And you can't sit them down and have a conversation and say we should break up. I might be too much of a pussy. I might be going through something in my life that makes it so,

I don't know. I'm saying I'm not a person who would ever cheat and I think that about myself and I would like to hope that I would never do that to someone but I can see a circumstance and I've seen circumstances where I can behave in ways that I would have never predicted for myself like you know like that's honest and fair but I just think there are some people who have a like like everything's a spectrum nowadays right and so you're being very honest about what you think you're capable of not and you're right like we are human we are all flawed we all could be make choices that we didn't realize we're capable of making in life and and have to apologize for something yes we i say things that i'm like i can't believe I ever said that. But there's some people who are just more willing to always make an excuse for themselves

and always come up with a version that in their head makes them out to be the victim. I mean, even on this episode, Tom led what he's talking to these DSs and they're asking what happened. It's just like it's a second nature for him to explain that the relationship was failed. That's why he cheated. It was less about his choices and his actions. It was more about the relationship. And he was upset about Ariana selling merch.

You know, it's just like, you could handle it two different ways. If you fuck up, you can look at yourself and be like, how did I make this decision? Regardless of, that's the thing. It's like, to your point, we're never going to be able to predict tomorrow, 10 years from now, situations we find ourselves in. Going on a reality TV show is finding yourself in a very weird environment that you're not used to and you don't know how you respond to that environment. And then certain people, when they get in difficult situations, respond well to those environments or respond poorly. Because, when they get in difficult situations, respond well to those environments

or respond poorly. Because we always find ourselves in vulnerable situations and some people will use those vulnerable situations as an excuse as to why they fucked up. It will always be the environment that they're in as to why.

But it is the environment. I don't want to get into this. Yes, it's the environment. I'm not blaming Ariana and their relationship. You can respond two't want to get into this. Yes, it's the environment, but you can, you can respond two different ways to the same environment. Well, the environment in which it's,

I mean, it's the environment of their relationship. It's also the environment in which he was raised. The brain he came out with is not strong enough to like actually confront someone and tell them I'd not have like, he's, he's trying his best, which isn't good. Um,

and, and the excuses are fucking annoying. Well, that's what I'm saying. Like, I've gotten to know Tom. Yeah. Do I consider him a friend? Yeah, in a way, I guess, you know, I've gotten to know him. I think he's got some nice qualities.

You wouldn't trust him with your heart. No, I wouldn't set him up with my sister. I wouldn't I wouldn't set him up with a girl who I thought like I wouldn't. No, I he's given me no reason to say that. I would trust him as much as anyone else at this point. Anyone else? Honestly, I would because first of all, he's been through. He knows what it's like to get caught in the worst way.

So for him to do that again, I think it would take a lot. I think he's actually more less likely. But he did it before. Like, you know, one of the big narratives when Scandavol came out was that there was a lot of speculation when he started dating Ariana that he was still kind of there was some crossover with Kristen. So it's like this is a repeated. Yes, this is like a pattern. So is anyone mad at Ariana about that? Did she know about Kristen?

Did she know about Kristen? Yeah. OK, so everyone's mad at Raquel because they were like, obviously, that is like such a dastardly thing to do to your friend. But this has happened to me before where I was the other woman. And maybe you're going to all of a sudden everyone that's like Nikki's so wrong here is now. Oh, she was just excusing her own behavior. I've been the other woman in a relationship where I was with a guy who was in a relationship and I knew about it. And people go, how could you do that?

I didn't know her, you know, like and I was in a weird position in my life where I just didn't I didn't really care about her feelings. And I know about it. And people go, how could you do that? I didn't know her. You know, like, and I was in a weird position in my life where I just didn't, I didn't really care about her feelings. And I know that's wrong, but I just, I just didn't, I don't know how to explain it. And I feel bad about it now. And I would hope that I never do it again. But my point is. But when you say you hope, like, that's my question. Because I don't know what my life will be.

After that situation happened and you look back on it, you don't have a certain feeling about it being like. No, I would hope I would. Yeah, I mean, but there's lots of things that I've done in my life that I hope I never do again. But like,

I keep fucking up. I hope I never drink again. But that's the thing. Alcoholics, if you're an alcoholic listening, you say one day at a time. You don't, you can't say forever.

No alcoholic goes, I'm never going to have a drink again. You're not even allowed to say it. I hear you on the absolutes, but there's a difference between being like you know me pigging out on fucking sugar right like and me just like going nuts and being like wow i yeah i really ate a lot and me feeling bad about that choice and knowing that like i'm probably gonna do that again and there's a difference between that and like really for whatever reason like doing something that hurts

other people and having kind of a selfish being in a selfish state of mind we've all been there we've had moments in our life where we just can't get out of our own way we've we we victimize ourselves etc etc and we get excuses but sometimes in life we come out of it we look back we go holy shit i can't believe i i can't who was i who was that person and then they feel contrite and we're gonna do it again but or some people just say i feel bad whatever and they move on with their life and hope they don't ever do it again and other people like actually do something about it i say i can't say i'll never do it again how i'm sorry how many relationships have started when someone else was in something else?

Most I would say 25 percent of relationships begin the early stages of flirting where it's like I might be into this person there with someone else because time that's I never want to do that again. I would love that if I'm ever single again and a person I meet is like my soulmate that I hope they're not in a relationship. That would just suck. And I'd have to wait it out and all those things. But I'm just saying my my whole point going into this and I know everyone fucking hates me right now who's listening because this is not a popular person to be. But I will just say that I found out way after I had felt so bad about all of this. I can't believe I did this to another woman that she got with him when he was with a girl and she did the same fucking thing. So all I asked for is a little empathy. It's like how you're all you're all just demonstrating low character.

Absolutely. Absolutely. But I'm just saying, can't we all have a little bit of empathy for someone who you might think is like the worst person in the world when you've actually done the same exact thing? I mean, sure. But if you're one of those few people, then, yeah, you can want empathy for some, you know, but there are people who don't do it. I think there's also empathy in service of accountability. Like you can say, I empathize with you in the sense that I understand that like you might have been

feeling X, Y, Z kind of ways. But that's me saying that I relate to you and that we're similar. And I know that you can make better choices like you can come up to where I am as opposed to empathy that excuses the choices made. Yeah. And I don't look at Tom as like a judgment. It's like I don't think I'm better than Tom or anything like that. I just see Tom and see his choices and go, OK, that's who you are. And I'm going to make choices about how I trust you or not trust you or how I interact with you based on what I know about you. And what I know about you is that like at the end of the day, when push comes to shove, you're more likely to do what you want to do for yourself than say, hey, hold on. Am I hurting other people by making

this moment about me? Am I choosing my own selfish needs at the risk of hurting someone else? Some people think about that. Others don't, you know? And we do live, I do think we are society. To your point, I think, you know, the world's coming down on Tom Sandoval when the whole fucking world has a main character epidemic. Like, Tom isn't the only one thinking of themselves. Most people are joke about this sometimes on stage. And I do understand that I've just painted myself as a villain of identifying myself as the other woman in a situation in my

life at one point in my younger life. But I make the point of like everyone just like hates the other woman. How could you do that to another woman? How could you ever do that? And the reason is, is because most women have been cheated on before and they know the pain that that woman caused them because it wasn't you know it wasn't the guy they're with fault she was seduced him she lured him away it's all everyone's fault right i think most of us understand that but i think when women stay with the man they have to make the woman the the devil she was a siren he couldn't help himself she's an evil woman that that tricked him into into being with her i mean sure i'm sure i think sometimes that has to be the justification but i think that a lot of women

are so mad at the other woman which i get it because they've been victimized by that woman but no one ever because everyone's been cheated on everyone's like i've been cheated on like every girl has had some story of a guy cheating on her but no one ever admits to being the other woman and my question is who's fucking all your boyfriends that like the numbers don't add up if everyone's been cheated on yet no one's been the other woman is it just three women fucking everyone's boyfriends sometimes it's single people i know no i'm saying but even single people hate the other woman. Like, I'm talking about like... I think it's the lying

of like hooking up with someone who you don't know is in a relationship is the only way that would kind of explain that of men on dating apps who have a girlfriend and don't tell anyone.

Okay, that's a good point. All right. But yeah, I mean, there's a lot of fucking selfish... Tom Sandoval and Raquel are not the only selfish people in this world. Yes, I would agree. But they are just, I mean, there's a lot of fucking selfish Tom Sandoval and Rich Raquel are not the only selfish people in this world. Yes, I would agree. But they are just, you know, when when people say, like, I don't get why it's a big deal.

I just don't understand why no one's brought up that Ariana knew about. They have. They have. They have. Yeah. I mean, she's definitely. Why haven't I heard about it? And all of the things that I've read.

Because we're a reactive society and people have fandom. And I'm not saying she's a bad person. I empathize with her. Listen, she has definitely gotten away. It's interesting. As I've gotten back and watched, I have become more blown away by just how much Ariana was made to be this hero.

Yeah. And Tom, the villain, knowing that, yeah, seven years ago, Ariana was Raquel, essentially, minus a couple of small variables. And yeah, there was the friendship dynamic and like, you know, it's all messy.

These are people who choose to go on reality TV and choose to have their lives focused on. So when Tom says, I don't get why it's a big deal, kind of like the DS has said on the show, it's just like your business is attention. It was funny when he was recapping, like there's merch. She spilled $200,000 with the merch. They're talking about me on CNN. It's like, are you bragging? But that is Tom. And he doesn't realize it. He's just so invested in that world.

It's like, it's not even boasting. It's not bragging. He's just, he's just so invested in that world it's like it's not it's not even boasting it's not bragging he's just that's all he knows yeah it reminds me of this comedian i used to work with who would um oh my god i i opened for him one weekend and he's he's really famous and i'm not gonna say what it is but he would and this was before he became like super famous but it was on like the cusp of it like it was starting and he would go out on stage and like do his act and he would kill like inarguably kill. But at the end of it, he would just stay on stage and keep waving. And like and if you stay out there long enough, you'll get a standing ovation. Now, so when people get standing ovations, they think it's something like that's earned.

And if they all stand up right away, earned. But if you just linger on stage, make people actually have to leave. I mean, they're standing to walk out, you know, so but they'll keep clapping, you know, if you just linger on stage, people actually have to leave. I mean, they're standing to walk out, you know? So, but they'll keep clapping, you know, if you're still there, not to be rude. So every night he would come up to me and go, another standing ovation. Like, I can't believe it. Like seven in a row. I'll tell you off air.

Seven in a row. Like, I can't. And I'd be like, you're, you're, you're begging for it. And then I've other, I've seen other, like, so that reminded me of Tom being like, he was on CNN he's almost upset about it, like I can't believe this, it's like you did this, this was all orchestrated by you. But at the same time kind of enjoying mentioning it and like

saying how his publicist thought it was the best, biggest story of all time Oh he loves it! And that is very irksome and so like gross but it just reminded me of that, of like, I can't believe it. Another standing ovation. Oh, that you waited for and begged for

and motioned for them to do and gave them no choice but to do it. He's earnestly himself in the weirdest possible way. You know, there's something refreshing about that. I've been going back and forth with Tom about getting him on this podcast. Yes. And we've talked about doing a podcast swap. We were going to do

it, but... You 100% should, especially after Special Forces. But there are certain questions I told him that we have, there are certain topics we have to talk about, and he's not comfortable at this point. And I told him, I'll go, I'll let you know all the questions. He only wants Howie Mandel's hard-hitting journalism. I'm like, I'll let you know

all the questions. And I'm like, I told him, I'm like, the Tom I got to know in special forces has some really great qualities i enjoyed getting to know you but i've been publicly critical of you and i want to address it and i want to see like where are you at now like i think what's where's the growth where's the opportunity where what are you gonna how are you gonna deal with in your next relationship i want to i want this to be a good episode for him and I want him to demonstrate like, you know, he's on the up that this was a as tough as this was. This was a defining moment of his life that he's used for, you know, to be better. And that's my hope.

Yeah. People. He is. He's he's still reluctant. So let him know that I will. I will pass along the message. But I just think that i mean this i didn't know his name before any of this happened i'm not a vanderpump fan um and he's been on mass singer

special forces he's getting paid yeah dude he's benefiting from this so i mean i don't think he'd probably wish that it happened if he had the choice but i i don't know i mean it's what is that is a great question what is next for him if you had it that's a great question for him that would you go back in time and have this not play out but you'd have to give back the money you've made and whatever notoriety you have and just be tom sandoval from season nine would you do it and i don't know if he would because he has probably go you know it was meant to happen because i've learned from it like he'd probably like yeah do that thing because i think he compares his rap with ariana where he's like well ariana got the same amount of attention but she also got

all these brand deals and she got to be beloved as opposed to comparing himself with like just a version of himself where this didn't happen i do think tom every time he struggled when he thinks this is unfair he's looking at all of his other castmates and thinking, why am I getting treated like this when all of you got like a slap on the wrist? Right. And that's kind of how he sees it. But his whole world is Vanderpump. You know, it's like.

Now it's a little bit bigger. I mean, I would know there are people know his name that would not that did not watch Bravo reality. It's wild. Let's talk some uh fuck boy island yeah f-boy island fuck boy island uh how's working with katie uh she was great i mean she's such a pro like it's just nice to have someone on the show that gets it right away and is almost like has a mind of a reality show producer like i know what i'm gonna do to make this the best

possible i'm gonna and i'm gonna be vulnerable enough to like let myself fall in love like she's primed to already fall in love can we expect something different from f boy on cw than f boy on hbo max no not really it's kind of like the same that you know I had to maybe clean it up a little bit but it was if we did we just made it kind of dirtier in a cleaner way. You know, like you, I would never let them censor me in any, like, I don't like being censored. We know. I know.

Sorry, Nikki. I always appreciate it when you're on. I don't, I don't like to offend people. And that's why I'm like uncomfortable with what I just admitted. Cause I feel like people like hate me now and are like gonna say mean things. But I don't like to make people upset.

I just like to, if someone's like we we don't talk like that like i went on daytime tv last week and they told me that kelly clarkson could only say the name of the show i'm there to promote twice and i'm like but it's the name of the show and they're like we uh the fcc wouldn't let f boy yeah f boy you couldn't because it's so dirty and i just feel like i don don't know. The world's gotten boring. There's something wrong because that's, can you say WTF on Kelly Clarkson? Because it's the same thing.

You know, like, I don't really get. And I always feel when people are like, you're dirty. I just feel like it's such a mean thing. I don't like being associated with that when people are like, oh, I watched your special and my grandpa was in the room and he almost had a heart attack i'm like god i'm so sorry i'm just disgusting you can't bring me home to your family like i'm so i'm just like i'm just telling the truth i feel like that like i'm just talking about things that we all like everyone here probably touched their

genitals at some point in the last 24 hours but we all have to like act like no i've never done that before in my life like i'm not i don't it's not that i want to talk about that constantly but let's not act like we don't have sex or like say the word fuck like and i understand kids might be watching kelly clarkson you don't need to hear them hearing f boy all the time but really are they gonna be like mommy what's an f boy like just lie to them like just say something else you know fire boy yeah fire boy that sounds like a fun cartoon. Are you guys filming F Girl now? We already did.

You did? Yeah. It's in the bag, baby. How is that going to be different? It's amazing. You know when there's more... The Bachelorette's more fun to watch than The Bachelor because more girls equal more drama and more fun.

Girls, when they're mad at each other, they tell each other... It gets kind of nasty. But did you really find some real good fuck girls? Yes. like girls like when they're mad at each other they like tell each other like it gets like kind of nasty but did you really find some real good fuck girls yes i did not i don't not is it like is it like really sweet i don't really know are the are your leads yeah they're really sweet they're really good guys that are really like and some like savage women and some guy i'm at that i want to watch that man i could not predict who was who because I like to play the game along. So I don't know who is who.

And these women, I just didn't know there are women out there that kind of operated in a masculine way of like collecting men and wanting to just get sex and money. And that's I mean, I understand that that will kind of exist. All the people listening who are having a hard time distinguishing between the fuck boys and the good ones like fuck boy island is a good kind of. Yeah. Tutorial. Oh, my God. Yeah, it really I mean, it was I got so many texts last night from people just saying, like, I'm so glad I'm married and not out there in this world with this kind of levels of deception. And these guys, but you're like, thanks. It just shows you what people like.

I think that's maybe why I'm a little jaded about the Sandoval thing or like about cheaters or I'm a little bit more desensitized to it because I've I've spent two months this summer watching people be just disgusting to one another and lie. And I'm like, I'm in the golf club. I'm at the country club with all the men who cheat. Like I've been hanging out in that. So I'm like, this is the way people are just men who cheat. No, I know. And women. I mean, I've been around. It's more likely men cheat, I would think. Actually, I don't think that's true. That's not true. Okay, I'm going to say that's not true. But I think that I just caught myself like,

I'm wondering why I'm approaching love with such a jaded or like lasting love or fidelity with such a jaded lens, with such shit colored glasses. And it's because I've been on Half-Boy Island consecutively for fucking 12 weeks this summer and just watching people be horrible and just so cruel and not have a problem with being a villain on TV. These guys on our show will look down the barrel of the lens and be like, I don't like this girl. I can't believe I have to go like on a date with her. She sucks so much.

And then they cut to a date where he's like, I can't wait for you to meet my parents and I'm falling for you. And you're like, he's wearing the same shirt as he just said that. Like, it's wild. But, you know, it's not all about just tricking women and making them feel horrible. I mean, that is what reality TV is, unfortunately, is watching people get hurt emotionally. So that does happen. But we have successes as well. Is Travis Kelsey a fuckboy or is he the real deal? I think he used to be. Dude, I think I'm like, I'm so inspired by Travis Kelsey and Taylor Swift. Like, I think a lot of women are. You're Swift, Jesse. I have that shirt too. It's such a good one. Yeah. Like, I feel like in the past, Taylor has been with men that I never had

a problem with any of the men she was with. Even Matt Healy. I was like, get it, girl. Like, have fun. He's an F boy. But like, just get yours. You're on the rebound. You want to have some sex with some guy that you had a total fling with before you met Joe. That's a loose end that you wanted to tie up. Enjoy it. Have fun. But this Travis Kelsey man, she's looking. I know Taylor is looking to settle down and have kids. I think Travis Kelsey man, she's looking, I know Taylor is looking to settle down and have kids. I think she wants a family. She wants to get married. She's 33. This is the age where it starts going like, okay, I got to like, seriously think about this. He's of that age too. I think they, I'm predicting it now, they will definitely get married. They will

definitely have kids. This will be a forever relationship, which means about 10 years in celebrity time. But I think that this is the first guy that I've seen her be with that isn't like, just like, yeah, I'm with Taylor Swift. No big deal. Like, you know,

they're always like cool about it. Even Joe, who I did like for her, just like kind of, she was like a kept woman that was very private and that was maybe led by her, like wanting to have that privacy.

And it seemed to be at the time, but I'm looking back on it now and I'm like, maybe he wanted to keep it private to keep her. And it was during COVID and they time. But I'm looking back on it now and I'm like, maybe he wanted to keep it private to keep her. No. And it was during covid. They were in this little coven together. No, what I think it is, it's a Travis Kelsey is the only guy she is dated that is confident enough in himself and what he does, that he has no problem acting like a excited, giddy, over the moon boy. like a excited, giddy, over-the-moon boy because he's not afraid of what the audience

or the public is going to think about him being excited. It's not going to emasculate him being over-the-moon about Taylor Swift and all these other guys who are like... They were always too cool for school. All these artsy entertainment guys who wanted to like... They had to act like they were good enough for Taylor

because they didn't think they were good enough for Taylor. They were projecting their insecurities onto Taylor as her boy. And Travis Kelsey, he's fucking the main character. He's a stud. He's six, five, two 50.

He's in a hall of famer. He's funny. He's charismatic. He is just fine. And he has no problem being like, I'm so fucking excited that I'm in love with Taylor Swift. And that's why it works. Because that's what he's all.

He's her equal in terms of self-confidence. The way he was beaming. I knew I was skeptical of him until the moment he was looking up at the box. And maybe someone said he was watching playback footage. But in my mind, he was looking up at the box to see where she was. Knowing cameras are on him, knowing that he's cheesing out just like is my girl up there is she there and I go this guy knows everyone's watching him be so cheesy right now and he doesn't give a fuck because he's so excited she's here it that was such a pivotal moment for me and then the hand holding the protective nature

like all the paparazzi shots he is the right person for her he knows what a prize he has he has worked hard to get her and earn her the other guys a prize he has he has worked hard to get her and earn her the other guys i feel like she had to work hard to get them she's always been the mastermind and this suddenly as someone i just was out a meme that was like he was the mastermind the whole time yes and it shows him like making his friendship bracelet to give to her or whatever and i was like this is this is it man and his brother jason's a family man. They're close, so he's got those family values. I think the best thing Taylor ever did is stop dating fucking entertainers. I mean, Travis is an entertainer because he can be.

But an insecure man. But he's an athlete who doesn't need to be an entertainer. It's like he entertains because it's fun and he's good at it. He's not lacking confidence. No. And I think it's... You're so right. He's not threatened by how famous he is.

If you have an ounce of insecurity about what you do and who you are, you can't date Taylor Swift. He might be the only person she could date. She will crumble you with her confidence. You're so right because there's no one bigger than her. Who the fuck else is going to be able to handle that? Except this guy who is totally sure in what he does. You're absolutely right. All I know is that Joe Alwyn is having a hard time right now.

Yeah. A hard time. Yeah, we don't care. My heart goes out. I know. Oh, my heart goes out. I know. I think he's a nice, a sweet soul.

I'm sure he's fine. But it wasn't enough, man. He had a shot. All he ever gave her was sweet nothings. The word nothing. That song hits different now. That is a breakup song. First time I heard it

when they were still together, I go, this is not good because I've been in a relationship before where it's Sweet Nothings and the guy's sweet and he's there and he wants you. But it's like that one part

where it's like on the way home, I wrote a poem. You say, what a mind. It happens all the time. I was like, that's a bad relationship because she writes a poem. She's like, babe, I wrote a poem.

He's like, what a mind. And like, he doesn't want to hear it. Doesn't want to listen to it. He I was like, that's a bad relationship because she writes a poem. She's like, babe, I wrote a poem. He's like, what a mind. And like, he doesn't want to hear it. Doesn't want to listen to it. He's just like, just a dismissive what a mind. Like, I'm just giving you this sweet nothing. Keyword nothing. She is a mastermind. She was telling us all along she was not happy. What a breakdown. Nikki, we could talk for so much longer.

Midnight's is a breakup album. Yeah. We gotta let you go. I gotta go. It was so fun. I love coming here. It's always fun. Thank you for having me. Congratulations on all your success. Thanks for being your raw and authentic self. Thank you.

I apologize to anyone who's been cheated on before. And I'm sorry that I was the other woman once. I never want to do it again. And the only reason I'm saying that I might is because I just can't. I don't trust myself, not in that situation, but in any situation. And I'm a vegan, though. And so I will say that I am a good person at heart like I don't like to hurt animals I don't like to hurt people and I'm sorry to anyone I hurt by

saying that and you can slide into my DMs and have it out with me and I would love to if you didn't like me please tell me and let's talk and I and I want to be your friend but we have Izzy next and don't forget if you Nikki returns in about an hour for texting office hours. Oh yeah, I'm coming back for that. I hear it's going to be good. Yeah, it's really good. All right, don't forget to send in those questions at asknick at thevilefiles.com.

For all things Ask Nick, texting office hours, mediation, you know the drill. We got Vile Files Plus for all your update specials. We got 415 update specials available for you, plus our Vanderpump recaps

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I'm ready. Let's do this. Izzy, welcome back. Woo! Good to see you again. Now, how is your heart? Today, I'm good. I'm actually really good.

Okay, great. Really, really good right really good and all right so now we know things did not work out with you and stacy yeah she left you at the altar yeah you didn't get married and y'all like had a moment and well i mean she left ish him at the altar so to speak she couldn't marry you yeah so yeah i guess let's back to, and how long ago was that? You know what's so crazy? When I was engaged the first time, I proposed on Memorial Day and our wedding was on Memorial Day with Stacey. So wait, you got engaged in the pod. No.

You got engaged. No, no, no. In real life. My first engagement. Prior engagement. Oh, that. Ooh. Memorial Day is just not haunted. let's just not do that anymore

yeah okay wow well i guess let's go back to stacy leaving you know saying no to you and i think the show ends before we get to the reunion uh with her it seemed like her whole pitch was here you are right from my read watching it you know we had the pleasure of talking with you a few weeks ago and when we interviewed you you talked about how earnest you were about this whole process you seem to really attack this show for what it was it's an experiment all right if i'm going to do love is blind i'm going to fully immerse myself in this experiment and literally ask myself, is love blind? And see if I can fall in love, get engaged and get married through this whole

experiment. From us watching it, or at least for me watching, I'm curious what the household has to say. But it seemed like almost like Stacey was literally the opposite where it's like, yeah, I'm going to do love is blind. I'm here. I'm'm gonna meet you in the pod and she seemed like she developed genuine feelings for you and all those things but the end of the day she couldn't separate reality the real world so to speak and and this experiment and i don't know what's right or wrong you know um you seem to almost want to focus on the good the connections and get through you know the issues and be like, hey, we have issues, but we can work on it. And Stacey was more like, I don't know, man, I barely know you. I'm seeing these red flags. And if I'm seeing these red flags so early, is that a reason for

me not to get married to you? And at the altar, she seemed like she had this plan in place, which was, let's just not get married i'm not ready yet i like you i love you even we have a good connection we can date but like i'm not there yet which seemed like for you a betrayal of expectations almost your expectations were hey we're in this together we're going to do this experiment it is what it is and yeah like it it definitely love is not blind for stacy yeah you know um so to speak because it was she wanted to you know look at everything that wasn't right about the relationship and and and use that as a reason to say i'm not ready for a marriage which you can't necessarily falter for that but i guess what happened after that it was confusing because after we're you know

after she tells me now we have a conversation she's like i still want to be with you i you know still want to pursue this and i'm just you know i mean i'm just devastated because it's like the whole way she was like yes she even had this jacket made with my last name like she was excited and so i was like oh my god like this girl's yeah like is gonna tell me yes and then you know that finance conversation came up and she felt like i just completely blindsided her or like when she when i told her she was just like oh my god like now i feel like i can't trust you can you bring us back into that conversation because it it brought us into that conversation post-conversation.

It was almost you guys were doing a play-by-play, and we were kind of like trying to figure out what happened. We had a conversation. She always, like, everything was always about finances and money as we went through it. She's like, there's a time where we meet up with her friends, and like, did y'all have the finance conversation? Like, it was always about the finances.

She likes to fly first class. So we understand. Yeah. Sometimes love flies first class. Yeah. And so I was like, okay, like,

yeah, we can hash that. Like, we'll talk about that. But when our filming, like a time of filming, we get back to work and I was long gone longer during the day. I would,

you know, leave at work like seven in the morning. Um, I would come back home at like eight or nine at night. And like my dogs after a while, we're staying at my place. I would, you know, leave at work like seven in the morning. I would come back home at like eight or nine at night and like my dogs after a while were staying at my place. So, I'm like, you know, going back and forth trying to like juggle everything and then come back and like, well, ask fiance, plan a wedding. So, I just never had the time to like, I wanted to sit down and like write out everything, you know, like how much do you make? How much is in the savings? What

are we doing with bank accounts? You know, like all that. That is not a five minute conversation to have, you know? So, we had it finally. It was like our last date night and we had that conversation. And so, we sat and talked it out and like she was very uncomfortable with like, I told her, I was like, I don't, you know, I don't owe, have any debts. Like my student loans are paid off like nothing i told her i was on a 1099 because i switched over and i was doing insurance um at the time and so that she was like oh my god like you're on a 1099 instead of like a w2 i'm like well yeah what was the problem with that she felt like it there was no like obviously when you're like a on a w2 like you're

getting like what your your salary like she thought that like lack of stability your benefits all that versus like on a 1099 you're just straight commission you know like a contracting position so there's yeah like less stability i think is implied i mean for her i guess to it all it's all circumstantial i mean it's like it's just how it pays out it could be 1099 and rich as fuck exactly because you make your own money i'm like dude i'm actually really good at sales like it's like it's just how it pays out it could be 10.99 and rich as fuck exactly because you make your own money I'm like dude I'm actually really good at sales like it's it I don't know so that kind of like threw me for a loop I was like damn I didn't realize what and then did she understand 10.99 I mean I'm yeah I mean she did she knows everything

apparently so um and then so I was like I have nothing the only thing bad is that I have bad credit I got cards and I was you know 18 19 I was an idiot I have nothing. The only thing bad is that I have bad credit. I got cards and I was, you know, 18, 19. I was an idiot, fucked it up. And my credit was bad. What was that whole conversation about you not having a credit card? So we were at the gas station and we're actually getting our marriage license. The day we're getting our marriage license. And we're at the gas station.

My chip wasn't like reading on the thing. So I was like, oh, I'll run inside the page. They're like, oh, you don't have another card. You don't have a credit card. I was like, no, I don't inside and pay. She's like, oh, you don't have another card? You don't have a credit card? I was like, no, I don't have credit cards. I was like, after college, I just never got them anymore. I never said, oh, I have back credit and I don't have credit cards. I just said I don't have credit cards.

So she felt like I lied to her with that because I told her I didn't have credit cards. But then I told her later on down the road that I had back credit. I feel like she was watching you like a hawk, man. feel like she was watching you like a hawk man like to to call that out because like if you if you were pumping gas and then you on our first date or whatever and you were like oh i'm gonna run inside to pay i wouldn't be like well why like why do you have to run inside to pay what's going on she was like really it was really nonchalant like she wasn't like it wasn't like a hawk she was just like oh don't you have another card don't you have a credit card don't you use one to get like points or whatever and i was like no i don't have cards like after college i just didn't get any more cards i'm curious so for

stacy i know it says operations manager and then we saw her teaching at a pilates studio like can you give us a kind of a better sense of what her like professional situation is and sort of the way that that might influence like both of yours she does operations for her dad's company okay yeah so she she does that That's her main job. And then Pilates is like a sidekick. She would do that like on Thursdays, you know, during the week and stuff. What's her dad's company? I think it's like oil and gas.

Something with oil and gas. I think. Well, yeah. Definitely money and oil and gas. What was your credit score at the time? Like probably like 580. Okay. So not great.

No, yeah. It wasn't good. You can bring that up yeah that's what i did i was just curious because she was definitely nitpicky so i was like at the end like 650s if i you know five but it's bad yeah it was bad but like even at the end obviously seeing it was a concern like day before the wedding i went and got a financial advisor immediately so i'm like well regardless another obstacle like i'm gonna fix it and that's what i tried to do what do we uh have we improved we've improved yes okay yes

we've improved for sure do we have a credit card now we have one now because if you manage it not too high but we got it that's okay pay off those balances yeah we're good to go made mistakes because it seems like the kind of like financial conversation was you know of course leaving the pods like such a big thing and even in the pods a topic of conversation each day so or like one day so i'm curious did it feel like this credit card was kind of like the credit card score conversation argument was like the straw that broke the camel's back or did it feel like it was completely out of nowhere like everything had felt fine before there was no rising tension and then all of a sudden that's how it felt for me

yeah I mean I guess to add to that it's more like was it the straw that broke the camel's back or was it just her keep looking for reasons to end it because after watching it to me Stacey seemed like someone who deep down

never fully planned on getting married. You know, like you, we've, you've seen other seasons, you know, deep D kind of has a legendary love is blind moment. We've seen it on the bachelor or bachelorette. If there's like a moment that someone is revered for, you know, standing up for themselves, there are subsequent seasons we'll have a cast. It comes across sometimes of them trying to replicate these moments and kind of manufacture their own edit at times stacy is nothing if not self-aware

she seems intelligent and smart yeah my read is that she probably never planned on ever getting married and and i don't despite her having feelings for you, but deep down, she was building a case in my mind. So as soon as she got to Mexico, she started looking for little things that she could, once you got to the altar, say, clearly I'm not ready. You know, whether that was Machiavellian or just kind of her subconscious,

but either way, that's how it came across to me watching it. How did you feel about it, either both watching it back and in the moment when she said no there was times yeah that i mean a lot of times that i felt that like why are you always just looking at what i'm not what i'm doing wrong but you're not seeing like all the effort and work that i'm putting in positive which really sucked and there's a time that you see that i just have like this breakdown after the barbecue, you know, and I'm just like, I'm, that was completely blindsided by that. And I lost it.

I was like. When you were hiding in the closet. Yeah. Yeah. God, that's embarrassing. Is that your safe space? That's so embarrassing. Well, I didn't think anyone was around or anything.

So I was like, I need a moment. I've been juggling your emotions and being so strong for you and also trying to be strong for myself. And then hearing that everything that i'm doing is not enough i'm like what the fuck you know well after especially hearing in our last interview talking about how you wrote those little notes to her prior to mexico and talking about your feelings i was i'm now shocked to hear you know because we watched it back and she was like you don't do the little things for me. Yeah. And it's like, I,

the flower vase was filled. I was about to say, you literally walked in and she was like flowers and you're like, yeah, Monday, like it's flower day. I got you flowers.

Flower day? I know. I was like, the boyfriends around America are like, fuck this guy. I felt like I do a pretty good job of every once in a while

being like, let's just like get Nellie some flowers, but it's not flower day. Yeah, it's's so thoughtful and kind so it must have been kind of like really confusing yeah so it's just yeah I was just like man I'm doing the little things here that you wanted and because you know I don't have time to like cook you a dinner you know I was like it's gonna come once all this settles you know there's one night that you didn't see. It was the night after the Pilates class that we took. I was like, I went out of my way and I got you like the gift to try to like make you laugh.

And then when we got home that night, I actually had like a full on bubble bath with candles and like a glass of wine there ready for her to go because I knew she had a long day. And so, it's just, I tried my absolute hardest. With the timeframe given, like it is hard to also do certain things. And so, yeah, it sucks. What are you feeling right now? Because I feel like your emotions are coming up thinking about that situation. Just thinking back, you know, I'm good.

Next question. Well, I mean, I don't want to have have you feel uncomfortable but I want you to I want you to express yourself and clearly even though it's been a year and you moved on this clearly affected you and I guess I just want to peel back those layers a little bit more uh yeah I mean to watch it back it's tough that my takeaway at the end of the day like i'm not gonna change that's how i am when i'm in a relationship um and like i'm proud of myself i stayed true to it and i know you know i am gonna be a good husband someday what did that teach you because i know i asked you this last time we spoke too but there's taking love is blind earnestly. And then there's, again, maybe recognizing

that you're not being taken care of as much as you are trying to take care of your partner. How important is reciprocity to you in a relationship? Yeah. I mean, I definitely know what I deserve. I think like through this process, I'm obviously terrified, you know, no one wants to feel heartache again, but I am not going to stop being myself. And that's how I love. What do you mean by that? Like everything that you see, that's just the type of like man I am with women. Sure.

And that's how I love, that's how I will treat you and take care of you. And although I'm scared and terrified, I will not hold back with somebody new. Like, you know, a lot of people, they're like, ah, I'm in a way they act different. They're scared to love again. They're scared to put in that effort. But I think like any opportunity that comes my way, when I do have that connection with that girl, I'm not going to let that stop me. I'm going to come in like full force and treat them the exact same way. I love that. i love that i love that you aren't gonna let like past um relationships affect future ones yeah but at

the same time do you feel like you would do everything exactly the same versus so that's one thing that i've learned now this is what i do is like before i get into a relationship i get the girl i'm gonna like let's sit down we're gonna write out a boundary list. And so like, we'll show right one. I'll write one. That's what I learned in premarital counseling. So we set the boundaries from the get go and just follow them. So it's like accountability when we go back to it and something happens, at least, you know, that way, you know, if I cut you one day, it's not like I didn't tell you.

So I'm really setting my boundaries. What are some of your boundaries? Simply just like, hear me out. Like, that's it. Hear me out. Respect me. Like, just kind of, I feel like I don't really ask for much. Just simple stuff.

Well, maybe that's your problem. That I don't know. Well, you're clearly, you take a lot of pride in being a good partner. I relate to that. You know, I want to be a great partner. And I've, I'm an acts of service guy. I love to give love. I'm certainly not perfect.

I have my shortcomings, but I try really hard to be a great partner. And past relationships I have made, I feel like I relate to you, but I've made the mistakes of feeling like my efforts of loving were enough to make a relationship work. And I had to realize that I had to have similar expectations of my partner that I had for myself and that she had for me. Because we're human. You've heard the phrase, you give someone an inch, they'll take a foot. You kept giving and giving and giving. And it seemed like in your relationship with Stacey, it was very one-sided. Your relationship with Stacey, watching it back, seemed like you opened up about your past shortcomings. She was like, thanks for sharing, Izzy, but now I need to make sure that you opened up about your past shortcomings. She was like, thanks for sharing,

Izzy, but now I need to make sure that you've learned from your past mistakes or I'm going to hold you accountable. And the whole time it was proving your worth to Stacey and it was like never enough. And you were too busy trying to prove yourself to Stacey that you never had the time to say, time out, wait, do I i feel loved do i feel taken care of it was always the oh great we get to be working on things it was daisy being willing to resolve issues that kept you going but it never i'm not hearing anything from that relationship or it was like this is how i was made to feel loved this is how i was taken care of uh well i will say like there is a lot um from my in my experience with it and being

alone with her off camera like she did do things like that to make me feel love like she was there it wasn't like reassurance you know like when we need it just like reassurance because there's there's like times where i would feel like all right or you're doubting this like so much is this gonna work but she would come when i at least expected it you know and she'd be like you know i'm here i love you i want this you know i'm like she had come when I least expected it, you know, and she'd be like, you know, I'm here. I love you. I want this. You know, I'm like, she had my back too. Obviously you see it a lot more with me and I took the initiative to do it a lot more, but she did have my back too. I can see that. And it's such what I'm saying. Like, I don't need much. Um, those little moments that she did do those things for me were enough for me. So yeah. So it's like

back to like, what are your boundaries? Like, I don't need much i'm a pretty easy going like just a good affirmation kind of thing and like i'm good you know what i mean i don't know what to say no i know but i but yes you're right you say i don't need much i i feel like you're i feel like you need to expect more from your partners yeah and that's what i do now like i more than anything it's just reciprocation Like the effort that I'm putting in, I want to see that you're doing the same as far as that. Like I need you to voice things, just be transparent, direct. Let me see the same effort. I don't need, you know, fucking gifts or shit like that. Just like, let me know you're here. Let me know you got my back.

Give me a kiss at the end of the day. Tell me you love me, baby. And we're good to go. So you're not with Stacey now? No. no okay what happened between wedding day and i guess today as it relates to you and stacy after wedding day um we had the conversation that she still wanted to be with me and stuff and obviously we're just so like mentally and emotionally drained from everything so we're like all right we're gonna take a week apart and just let the dust settle from like filming and everything and uh we'll meet up at the end of the week and like we'll chat so i'm a fucking wreck because obviously i still want to be with this girl and so i don't know if we're together if we're engaged or like with a girlfriend what's gonna happen and i did my best to like respect her space in that time and let her

you know digest everything but i just was lost because we would only talk once or twice a day and it was a quick text check-in like hey are you good do you need anything kind of thing so she turns you down at the altar she's like hey i don't want to get married but i still love you can we date you're obviously emotional from this and the days that followed that you guys were just texting a couple days just checking in there wasn't like a an effort on her part to try to she would just check in like mental health wise that's what i was saying like it's tough because like i wanted to respect her space but in that moment for me how i felt was why did she need space i'm curious I mean she was just like from what she

told me like obviously with filming you know it's like it is a shock when you go from having so much people around you and it's just like wedding day's done it's like all right we'll see you soon so like that transition to getting back to normal life and then dealing with the wedding and and all that stuff so yeah for me it was hard because it's like in a moment like that and if someone that you love and you want to be with I understand I'll give you a couple days but like there was days where it's like I think like I want to be with you I need to be around you you're my person regardless it's such a hard time like I want you there and yeah like it sucked like I was going nuts man and so then we see each other that Friday. I go to her place

and we finally talk. She's wearing her ring still. So I'm like, all right, like, let's go. And I would always start, I was like, yes, do the whole process. Like, this is hard. This is tough. But once we get through this and we make it together, it's only going to get better from here. And once there's no, you know, cameras around and we get to be ourselves, like think of the moments when we're not on camera and it feels so perfect. That's how it's going to get better from here once there's no you know cameras around and we get to be ourselves like think of the moments when we're not on camera and it feels so perfect that's how it's going to be like majority of the time so after she broke your heart at the altar you had a few days you were you were back to being all in yeah i mean because at the same time like my mentality was like you know what you signed up for you you know, you know that this is, you're going to get married in this timeframe, you know? So I was like, I was okay with it.

And then there's like the realistic kind of realistic side, if you want to look at it and it's like, okay, it is too soon to marry somebody in like a month or two. So like that, I was trying to be understanding on like of her feelings on that end. So that's why I was willing to compromise and like, that's all right, let's figure it out out um so yeah that's why i was still like all in and it like sucked so bad but i'm like all right like i was really in love with this girl so we go on this date and we go to a place we talk and she's like this is so different like or like you see like it's really nice like and we go on this date and we have a good time like we get home at the end of the night and i just had this feeling

in my gut and i was like something just i don't know just like it didn't feel right and so i asked her i was just like we're putting sheets on her bed and i was just like are you even in love with me and she's like i'm not feeling it and i was just like what the fuck and i walked out and i never talked to her again for a year. How many days or weeks did that date happen after the wedding? A week. A week. The wedding was on a Sunday.

It was that Friday of the following week. And she fell out of love with you that fast? I don't know. I mean, I don't know. I really don't know. I'm going to ask you a tough question. Yeah. Do you think you got played?

I don't know. I really don't. I don't know. I don't feel. What's your gut tell you i mean you know and your gut's gonna be in conflict with your ego oh no i don't mind dude if i get played i don't i don't have my are you more worried about hurting her i feel like you you feel a lot for other people and you don't ever want to like be mean to other people or talk bad about other people. Is that kind of what. Like, I don't know.

I didn't I didn't feel that way. And it's not to protect her. Like, I'm thinking of it. I don't know. Maybe I could just be fucking oblivious to shit. I can be naive. Like, and maybe I'm not. You were in a bubble. So, yeah.

Even if you got played, there's a there's a there's a. Very easy explanation of you took a risk. And that risk, well, just going on the show is a risk. But you took an even greater risk by truly a different experience. It's a different experiment. When I was on The Bachelorette, I took a risk. And that risk was, I'm here, fuck it. I'm going to go for it.

And I'm going to throw caution to the wind. And that resulted in me making some mistakes and that resulted in me feeling blindsided you know so you took a risk by doing that nevertheless and yeah sure you you you have to own that and i i get that but nevertheless there once things are are done and the dust settles yeah you can kind of go back and replay the tape so to speak and i'm assuming some of your opinions and perspective of those situations might change and i'm just wondering yeah what if anything has changed i guess i would say like looking at it now so i obviously i walk out we don't talk for a year my dad ended up passing away i want to say like two or three weeks after that and so she texted me and was like thank you um she like texted me her condolences and stuff and like

i was just so fucking upset like i didn't want to talk to i wanted nothing to do with her i was like i felt betrayed and so i just didn't respond and then a year later that's crazy it's a good story with that a year later yeah i'm out at a bar and at this point like you know i'd already been dating like casually dating around and i moved on and i got over it and so i'm at a bar and i was just like during the hell we ran into each other she's walking away from the bar I'm walking to the bar and boom so I see her we hug I'm like all right I'm over it at this point like we're good now and yeah I was like crazy we we hugged and like it was crazy for her she got emotional started crying like there at the bar and after that we just had a lot of like questions you know that we both wanted to answer and i guess after her seeing

me it was like a relief like i felt her she missed me it was like a relief came back so to see her react that way and feel that way i would say there was some genuine feelings there i don't know if i got played or not that's why maybe in that moment i felt it for sure like i can see where that is but i think like seeing her reaction a year later kind of uh yeah yeah it's tough because i don't i've had run-ins with exes and there's been tears on their part and i honestly couldn't tell if it was a genuine feeling or guilt on their part or just being drunk or dramatic you know it's it's hard to decipher at times yeah at the reunion it seemed like stacy suggested can correct me if i'm wrong that you knew that she was gonna say no yeah is that true yeah she told me um two days before the wedding uh-huh what how did that conversation go i saw her uh one night and i was like the end of the night and she's like i miss you like i just really want

to see you um this is like so after the finance conversation that was a point where i was like well i like this is not looking good so i obviously feel like shit and then i think we have our bachelor night and bachelorette night i'm not with her and the next day i'm still not with her like we're not supposed to be together in those times and so she's out one night and she called me she's like i miss you like i want to see you i know we're not supposed to like see each other she's like i just really want to like see and i'm like fuck yes like this is looking good maybe it was just a scare i'm like i'm right there let's go and we go and it's like it's great we're just like laying in bed we're laughing and everything and we're just like having a conversation

i can't remember exactly how it was but it led to the point of her being like, oh, like, I'm not going to say yes. And I was just like, what the fuck? And she was just like, I don't feel like I like I can marry you right now. Like it's too soon. And I was fucking destroyed. I remember that next day, like I just went to my pool with like a 12 pack of of uh claws and a bottle of vodka and i just got sloshed with strangers um just to try to like distract myself but there was just still this hope in the back of my mind did you let anyone know did

you let producers know i just i just told him i was like i have a feeling she's not gonna say yes and they're like people from my previous seasons were like barnett was a no i think they amber like last minute he's like like you never know what could happen and i was just so optimistic because some people could go and be in a no but once you walk into that moment you see your dress you see your tuxedo you walk into your suite or down the aisle like you just sometimes you hit a moment and you know you just change your answer so i was optimistic the whole way and i was like i'm gonna keep fighting i don't give a shit and i wrote her that note like i just kept trying bro i don't know do you yes i had an idea and are you appreciative of her taking it to the end or do you feel like hindsight being 2020 she should have not gone through that whole day or how do you how do you see it now having the dust settled

i don't know i never that's a good question i've never really thought of it because i'm thinking i mean just hearing you talk and it's just like you again there's this pattern of you being like i'm gonna power through this i want to fix this i'm gonna love hard yeah you know and that's a great quality and it seems like for the lucky person it's going to be amazing quality but it's almost in a way it's like you almost give your partners or like it's like and i don't think i think stacy should have done her part but it's like you gave your your partner permission to almost take you for granted. Yeah. You know, cause you're just like, well, I'll fix it and I'll power through it. I'm going to select, I'm going to, I'm going to focus on hope rather than being like, Hey, if you really don't feel this way, I need you to like, yeah. End it, you know,

because I'm going to, it's like you kept saying to Stacey, I'm going to keep hoping I'm going to keep fighting. I'm not going to give up on you. That was a message you made very clear, it sounds like, to her. Yeah. And despite her kind of being like, hey, I don't think I'm going to ask you. Like, should she have protected your heart a little bit better? Or, you know what I'm saying? Yeah.

Yeah. No, that's, I guess, I don't know. That's for her. As far as for me, like. Yeah, I'm curious what you think, though. Yeah. I mean, I don't know, man. In that moment, like I'm just like locked in and just optimistic regardless.

I knew it, but knowing that there could still possibly be a chance for her to say yes. Yeah. I'm like, and like. I guess what was the most hurtful part about those last, from the date, from the finance fight, the credit fight to your final date with stacy what hurt the most it being real life not on cameras and her telling me that she wasn't feeling it anymore and wasn't in love with me that's what hurt the most because that you know like she talks to me you know after the wedding and tells him she still wants to be with me, that she's, you know, in love with me and she loves me

and she's telling me all these things, but it's literally five days later and now I'm just finding out that you're not in love with me. Yeah. Well, I mean, that's my, I think all our questions, how'd she go from, it's what, you know, her not wanting to get married. That seems reasonable. I can't sit there and fault anyone for going on the show and being like, yeah, great. Could. Yeah. And that's why I stuck it through with her. Cause it was like, I was like,

all right, realistic. You're not ready to get married right now in two months. So cool. I get that. But obviously you're telling me that you still want to be with me. She made it very clear at the wedding in front of your family and in front of hers that she might not be ready to get married, but her, her feelings to you were without question yeah that they were sincere that they were deep that they were real and five days later no cameras yeah yeah that's what hurt the most what do you think she would say to that so we we actually the year after we met up um we actually hung out a couple times oh after the bar meetup yeah yeah we we hung out i stayed a couple nights like we stayed a couple nights together never hook up never hooked up but we did kiss yeah a few you know kisses and stuff man uh but yeah we didn't hook up because we

didn't want it to get we knew like it was we didn't know what we were doing we knew there was like a connection there and in the chemistry still there and the feelings were still there but we didn't know where we were going with it but we decided to not hook up so it didn't get sticky but in those times that we stayed together she pretty much just kind of like cleared up everything and i think for her like she was just very pressured in that moment and she just felt like with all that like she couldn't trust me it was basically what it was she couldn't trust you how why because i told her about the credit score so late she was still bringing up the credit score thing a year later because we well i asked her because i needed the closure so i was like so why like really like why did you say

no why why didn't we date after like why did you tell me you wanted to be with me but then tell me you weren't in love with me and so she was just like everything was just too much for her in that moment she felt like she didn't really know me. Like, you know, like certainly that's what she told me because I told her everything so late. I don't know. She told her family that she knew, felt like she knew everything about you. Yeah.

And then obviously toward the end, I told her that and she felt like, what if I was just a big lie? So. I mean, I guess. I don't know. But I mean, through it all, like I got the closure that I needed her and I are on great terms now. We're actually really great friends. Crazy. Uh, we went, um, to, so I met this girl that I've been like seeing here for the last couple of months. And she's like, I really want to do, she's like i really want to do i was i want to take you on a date booked us a cooking class and so we go and we walk in and immediately i hear stacy's

laugh out loud as soon as i walk in i was like no fucking way so i go around the corner and sure enough there's fucking stacy and so the chef comes out and i tell this girl look at my ex-fiancee's ears the heads up like so we go and the chef comes out and uh she's like, look at my ex-fiance's ears, the heads up, like, so we go and the chef comes out and she's like, all right, y'all walk in, there's going to be name tags, y'all are going to be paired off with different couples, fucking walk in, all four of our names are together. So, here we are doing a fucking cooking class, it's so random. But yeah, like that's how cool we are.

It was kind of awkward actually actually but we're good friends uh kind of help each other out give you advice with dating shit like that but yeah we're going now when your heart was broken obviously you were upset um so i hear you on that but you also i think said something to the effect of this is why stacy's 33 and single because she only dates rich 45 year olds do you still feel that way? Do you feel bad about that comment? Is there some truth to it? I do feel some bad about it. She did tell me, you know, in her past, like the type of guys she would date it, you know, other guys that just wanted her as like arm candy, you know, kind of thing or always older, you know, at their house

and all that stuff. And do you think she liked being arm candy? Um, she actually didn't want to be that anymore. So just like, I remember in my pod book, I remember I specifically have it in all caps arm candy. Um, and so like for me, I was like, okay, you can have all these things, but clearly you haven't found love. These guys aren't emotionally mature to like be with you and have you. So like, obviously i did

something they couldn't do i just yeah i didn't have that so she honestly thought she wasn't even gonna get married um she like gave up on that but i do feel bad about that i was definitely obviously i just got fucking told no at the altar so i'm upset but and there's kind of some truth to it from what you know what i've learned from her can we go back i'm sorry to go all the way back but we haven't had a chance to ask you yet um there was that moment starting episode eight you know after the whole barbecue fight you got emotional but you also before that weirdly told stacy how turned on you were for what seemed like her being really mean to Johnny. Yeah. And do you want to address that?

Again, another disgusting moment of mine. That's not how I meant it to come out. I think more for me, what I was attracted to, I've never seen that feisty side of Stacey. So it wasn't like her being mean. It was more so I was attracted to the fact that she's like holding her ground and like sticking up for herself so like seeing that side of her is what i was like fuck yeah like my girl can hold herself down it was more so that not her fucking really into johnny that way um but obviously the way it came out in that moment i was just i was i wish i can erase that that was

just a horrible presentation of myself that night. Okay. We all make mistakes, you know? Yeah. Do you feel like Lydia? Um, Uche has, according to his Instagram said that it's been proven that she, you know,

manipulated her way onto the show after she found out Uche was going on. Her and Milton are still together. Um, but what are your thoughts on uchi's accusations about lydia from what i got at reunion because i honestly didn't know any of that stuff i obviously was minding my own business with my you know with stacy um from seeing like at reunion and stuff like even milton states like uchi was always just like constantly concerned on how their relationship was going. I don't know.

But like from my perspective, I don't think Lydia did that. It's crazy like how Uche kind of handled it. Apparently like he was so concerned that even after the wedding immediately, a couple of hours after they said they do, he's textington saying like hey i heard you just got married do you want to talk about it it's just like a little too late no yeah but like i don't know from what it seems like uche was the one from what i've seen and heard from everybody else at reunion that he was the one a little bit more obsessed with what lydia's relationship with milton was yeah and that's why like like, at the barbecue, he's, like, trying to show him snapshots.

And, like, Milton's like, bro, I don't even give a shit. Like, but he was so, like, he was just pushing really hard to want to show him these snapshots and, like, try to prove a point, you know? So I feel like, I don't know if he was just trying to, like, make Lydia look out that way. I really don't know. Yeah, his, when he posted a few weeks back,

his Instagram, he kind of contradicted himself too because at one point he was just like when someone asked if he actually cheated on lydia he was like well we were never together which also it's like okay and then you're clearly had sex you clearly had sex with someone else while you were in a situation ship with lydia because he didn't deny it but he was using that and we pointed this out in the show prior he was just like well if if we were dating lydia would have said we were dating but you're also accusing lydia of manipulating her way on the show so if lydia was manipulating her way on the show she wouldn't have admitted to producers whether you were dating or or not because you're

accusing her of lying the whole time. So which one is it? Yeah. You know? And that's what the struggle for Aaliyah was because she was like, there's two different stories. The timelines aren't matching up. Like she didn't know who to trust.

You know what I mean? That's fair for her to feel. But all in all, I think Lydia is a great person. She had good intentions and I don't think she purposely tried to go beyond there with them. I think she just wanted to go and have her own journey and find love for herself i don't think it had anything to do with uj okay drizzly the most convenient way to buy beer wine and spirits

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into me. Okay. How long have you been flirting with the guy? Since like January. Describe flirting. Just like, it's hard for me because I have very little experience in this, even though I'm like 30 years old. But just like the conversations we have, there's always like that underlying tone. If you were to ask one of my

co workers, like he's always like staring at me like waiting to see if I notice him goes out of his way to talk to me. Can you give me an example like specific about an interaction you two had? What are you masturbating to? What moment are you touching yourself too late at night not to him i will say that okay all right well now good night when it first happened like that's not like at first i just saw him as like a friend like i have horrible anxiety so it's like he's just someone i could be comfortable around but then like i think there's like a conversation not i think there was a conversation that we had where i was like oh like how does this person we're talking about

a co-worker and i was like how does this person have a boyfriend and like i don't and he's i'm like i think i'm pretty good looking he's like oh you're definitely good looking and i was just like okay okay kind of just moved on with the conversation because i couldn't handle it I'm pretty good looking he's like oh you're definitely good looking and I was just like okay kind of just moved on with the conversation because I couldn't handle it in that moment I just got excited for you that's pretty that's pretty good that's like a like what do you think Nick you're definitely good looking is uh an an unnecessary thing at work to say yeah you didn't need to say it i never had his number and then like in july he asked he we were like both leaving at the same time and he was like oh i don't think i have your number and i was like no you don't i mean he just like slyly like handed

me his phone was like here well like give it to me and then he had mine but i didn't have his um use it and he like randomly tech no he didn't for like a day or two and then he texted me because i asked him to do something for me at work he didn't use it and then for like two yeah yeah for like a day or two but then when you're waiting for a guy to text you a day is it's like dog years yeah it's dog years he never fucking and then the next day he followed up about something that you had asked for at work so he had followed up about a work thing but was it urgent like did you were you like this could have waited no okay so it was like it was actually yeah and then so then i had his and i tried being like the one to reach out after work my friends

are like don't do that absolutely not and i'm like i'm not here to like play games like let's just see but then like the conversation just never flowed and he didn't really reciprocate it but then when we were at work do you have this text conversation in your phone yeah but they're like not great we don't care about great we're just looking for information he's getting in there he wants he wants like evidence we're trying to give you an honest assessment of what we need information we need a primary source he looked at me for five seconds isn't a lot to go on yeah you're right true i know i know um okay i want to tell her what she wants to hear is that wrong wrong? Is that the wrong instinct here?

No, that's good that I'm here as well. I don't know how to do that. Because I'm like a good girlfriend and I want to make every girl feel like your crush is valid. He likes you. These are signs of love. So what is the convo? Let's read the convo.

I started and I was going to a party and I had told him i didn't really want to go so then i texted him i was like remember how i said i didn't want to go to this party should have gone home like i wanted to and then all he sent back was like laughing face emojis and then like that's always how it is and then like that was it i guess i could have responded i just didn't really but you didn't follow up with that no because i didn't really know what to say i would do the same thing because i'd like, he should ask a question if he's into me. Like he should more than just I when when they just like when you say something to get a conversation going and they just go, yeah, sucks.

And then you're like, exactly. What's like you? It's now it's up to you what you think. What should you have written back? They're not dating. Right. to you what you think what should she have written back they're not dating right she works with this guy and she is trying to like maneuver into his life so like yeah don't respond if you don't want to but you gotta play it cool nick like you can't seem too eager and it's tough though when you have

such you're harboring such a crush which i i think you are right like this is you have a crush on this guy so when you're harboring a crush you feel that anything you do they are going to completely see it and like they're gonna know that you like them so much so you're you are you're you're operating in this way that everything you think everything you do is so obvious that you love them so you almost get like mean at least that's what i do that's a good point yeah so like the fact that you didn't respond did you almost get like mean. At least that's what I do. That's a good point. So like the fact that you didn't respond, did you have like advice coming in from girlfriends saying don't respond or was this all on your own? No, because the last thing I was

going to do was tell my girlfriends that I didn't want to be at a party that one of our friends had invited us to. So anyways, remember your shitty party? So anyways, I text them about it. It was a different party this was weeks ago i forgot to tell you so you work with this guy let's just cover the obvious like potential

like pitfalls like what is like this i don't need to know like where you work but like what's the hr situation here like if you were to like shoot your shot there's the obvious like challenge that you know it's one thing to say, hey, just fucking shoot your shot. If he doesn't like you, whatever. Move the fuck on. You work with this person. That's something you're going to have to consider. You know, someone you like live in the same building with, someone you work with.

Those are variables of which like, do you really want to like shit where you eat type of thing? And like, unfortunately, rejection is a little more painful when it's like staring you in the face at the water cooler every day. So what does it look like? Yeah, HR won't be an issue. like staring you in the face at the water cooler every day so what does it look like uh yeah hr won't be an issue we literally just have like we have people that are married that have kids together as as long as like we've had managers that have hooked up with employee like regular

employees you work on a reality show yeah might as well um yeah as long as like they don't work in the same department h HR like doesn't care. OK, so. All right. But there's here's another thing. There's something once you like break this open and you find out, even if it resolves in like you being together, there's something so fun and spicy about having a crush on someone at work. And like every day you go in and you're like it makes you excited to go to work. Like, are you kind of in that zone right now where it's like there's something anticipatory about going to work and you kind of get dolled up and you're like get butterflies a little bit yeah and here's the thing i work two

jobs so like that job is my second job so like i'll go out of my way to like go in there just to see him yeah and so you're gonna lose that once you get the answer. This is also fun, this kind of not knowing period. But Nick what data do you have let me so he asked me like last week he texted me well so we were both leaving work or he was leaving work and i was like oh when am i gonna see you and he's like oh sometime this week and i was like oh well like we have separate schedules won't see you until next weekend and he's like well you can text me anytime and i was like well you can text me anytime. And I was like, well, you can text me anytime. I said, because I tried texting you and you gave me nothing. Like, I just called him out on it. And so he did text me later.

Yeah. Like, I'm just going to tell you. And so then he did text me that night and was like, so when are we going to go get drinks? He literally asked you out. He did. Okay. He did. But then when the day came he canceled like i texted

him at like 12 o'clock that day to like hey we still on for tonight he waited five hours to respond and was like oh i can't today i got stuck helping my mom with something let's reschedule i was like okay so i'm at work two days later. He didn't really say anything about it. And so I went home and I just texted him again. I was like, so when do you want to go get those drinks? And he was just like, I'll let you know. And then nothing. And that's where we are now. And that's where we're at now. Yeah. And like, we've seen each other at work. It's the same, but like, there's been no follow up on. Not great. it's the same but like there's been no follow-up on not great in my experience not good i mean i want to i want to tell you just keep trying but the truth yeah i mean the truth is if you're gonna have to wait for him to get bored enough to go out with you oh god i know i'm sorry uh it's not it's not a you thing it's just like that's

you've heard me say this a million times like that behavior he demonstrated to you is is telling you you're an option to me it's easy to say to anyone hey when are we getting drinks one day you know it's like throw it out there it's like this passive thing that when some people, when they say it, they're not even like really even worrying about your response. It's just like more of a, hey, I need to get drinks someday with someone at some point.

I just want to see what your availability is in case I can't find anyone else to go out with. And again, this is not, and I'm not trying to make you feel bad. This is probably a guy who kind of says this with a lot of people. He's just like fishing, you know, he know just throwing out lines so to speak maybe this develops into a love affair i don't know but right now he's not seeing he doesn't have a crush on you he

thinks you're cute you know thinks you're fun you know a fun, good time, but he is not going home talking to his friends about you like you are about him, so to speak. It's just an honest assessment. But, you know,

would you be willing to like, you know, have him be a, just a straight up hookup? Are you looking for more? Yeah, I could do that.

You would? I don't know. I mean, no. No, of course not. You're not going to do it. No, you can't. Because if you hook up with him, you're going to have feelings

and you're going to want more. You like this guy. I would advise against that. I mean, like, is there a way, is there something she can do to maybe force him to get bored enough to hang out with her?

Or intrigue him enough to want to hang out with her. Maybe one day at work when he's listening and you're talking to some girls, be like, I haven't gotten laid in so long. No, that's not... Does the guy respond to that? No, I'm just kidding. Yeah, but like...

I mean, just talk about dating other people maybe around him. Yeah, honestly. That's the thing. That's really the only thing you can do is just be mindful of like the energy you put out when he's in the vicinity and just act like someone who's in demand and busy and unavailable. Definitely stop saying, Hey,

remember drinks? Like act as if like you've forgotten about it. You've moved on come in with a hot story about some guy or make it up it doesn't matter totally make it up talk to a girlfriend about this guy you met out you're he's think he's so hot you're super excited like talk about him and make it seem like it's someone else it's someone else yeah okay yes and like you're super in demand you're super busy it's that's the that's the only way, you know, you got to make him feel like he's potentially losing one of his options. God, isn't this the most like just relatable thing ever?

Like, thank you for sharing this, because it just reminds me of so many times in my life where you're just like, what's you're trying? You're trying to read into like absolutely nothing that they're giving you. But there's little, little crumbs along the way. I mean, the drinks thing would have kept me going for months, Brianna. Months. So you're not crazy to think there might be something there. And I think potentially there is. But I think Nick is right.

Like it's happened to me before. You just got to wait till they get bored enough. That's a really wise and really painful thing to hear. Yeah. But it is true. Even after he canceled, like I went into work and then I was like leaving. It was like right after it was probably like the day after. And I was like walking out. He was talking to someone and he like called my name and expected me to stop and wait for him. And I was just like, I got i gotta go he completely like ended his conversation with that person and was like hold on like i'll talk to you later i have

to talk to her and like chased after me to like apologize all over again and like promise we're gonna reschedule well whatever that really yeah but whatever that was that moment was him feeling like a little bit of like she's getting a little annoyed i've lost a little bit of control of this situation it really you know what i'm saying he's he's juggling and like he's juggling his options and so in those moments where you see him like give you attention early on i would act almost uninterested because usually usually when he's like, oh my God, like, wait, you know, and he like pivots and he shines his attention on you. My guess is you light up, you focus all your attention on him.

You're listening. You're super in tuned. You need to be like distracted or like, oh yeah, I wish I had some time. I got to go. Act as if he is the annoying guy at work that you don't want to talk to. Like really go into work thinking like, just pretend like he's the worst and have that vibe and he'll be clamoring for your attention. But just know you're trying to trap a fuckboy. Isn't the second that they like you can act like that but then the second that you start giving that like being like I like you they like run away again.

Like isn't it just a bit of a dance. The rest of your life you have to pretend like you don't like your husband like just to keep him no this is just more when two people this is like a dance of this is like a it's a mating ritual in a way i guess no it sucks it's it's my it's it's it's what it's dating apps and social media and hookup culture and he is just he's got fuck boy energy for sure he likes to flirt with you he likes to compliment he's good at complimenting people he knows when to compliment and he he uses his compliments and his flirty to keep it that's his bait and you're the fish so to speak he leered me in real quick so i don't know if there's anything for you to do right now other than to act as if he is no longer a crush of yours because it wouldn't shock me if he has a

sense he knows that you have a crush on him so i could do that you almost want him to think that he has a crush on you because again this is all about like changing your behavior and making him wonder if he lost that control, if he lost that power, if you're actually annoyed by his behavior of ditching you rather than just waiting for the next time he's available. Because that's the energy you're giving off right now. It's like, oh my God, I'm annoyed, but just let me know when you're free. Yes.

As opposed to be like, you know what? You had your shot. So give him that you had your shot energy rather than like, let me know when you're available. All right. Yeah. Good luck good luck proceed with caution because yeah you're i think you're dealing with a pro game recognizes game yeah okay all right well keep us posted thank you thank you all right best of luck all right bye bye you seem good now uh you have a a relationship it's a budding relationship i guess what is your perspective about this whole situation i'm assuming you must be in a weird way thankful that stacy said no to you at the altar i'm thankful for

our friendship but like obviously we're just not meant to be married you know and like i'm grateful for how it worked out obviously it sucks but the outcome like i'm just proud of myself i stay true to myself and i would 100 do it again i'm wondering because i know kind of like bringing families into it must make it feel so much more real and like just really kind of been bursting that like bubble um how you know and it seemed like your mom was so open and, you know, obviously knew that it was risky in certain ways, but really wanted to get to know Stacey and embrace her as part of the family. How did kind of what happened at the altar and subsequently,

like how does your mom feel about it now? Obviously when it all happened, I mean mean i think any mom would be upset you know so she was upset i think more so my mom just didn't want to see me hurt and so she's like watching me go through it um now i mean now she knows we're friends and stuff like that and my mom like we're just laid back and cool she's not gonna hold any hate or grudges or anything like that just like as long as i'm happy she's happy. Has she met your current girlfriend? Yeah, actually last week my mom came into town

and we had dinner. It was the first time they met and it went amazing. Great. Okay. So there was a bachelor and bachelorette parties. Interesting. I would like to see Love is Blind have a little bit more

i want the bachelor and bachelorette parties be used as like an opportunity to like test the relationships well the girls did theirs was cool they got to draw naked dudes that was pretty cool okay there you go like naked guys came out and they got the doodle on cock out let's paint you what did you do yeah what'd you do i just hung out with the boys. You just hung out? Yeah, I had some drinks with the guys and Yeah, it's always like the guys just sit in this empty bar that you rent out for those bachelor parties. It's like. Had some bottle

service girls bring us some drinks and that was about it. I would like to see some real temptation. Strip club. Yeah, and some real aggressive women. Okay. Nick's making his own spinoff i just want to see you know so coming up in october at netflix here's the next show a little a little drunk um so recapping you're good friends with johnny now uh you kind of take back she's not shady

no she's a good girl okay you're You're close with Milton and Lydia doing. Yeah, they're honestly, I'm so proud of Milton. Him being the youngest, he's handled the situation so maturely. I'm like really proud of that guy. Yeah, it was, man and I were watching it and I remember, you know, Lydia, it's just like one scene you're like, oh shit, crazy. And then you don't know what to make of her. But I said to Nataliealie boy if if everyone

deserves someone i'd like i'd like to think that milton might be lydia's person you know maybe maybe he's just a nice balance to uh-huh yeah he needs and like yeah and he needs her like she how does lydia compliment milton because i feel like milton gets a lot of credit for complimenting lydia how does how does he help her how does she? I don't know. Kind of keeping them in line. He's a youngin', you know what I mean? So, like, she brings a more mature side out of him, kind of keeps him in line, helps him hang his towels up now, so leave them on the floor kind of thing. Like, she does those things for him. Shows him how to open champagne, like, little things, you know what I mean? Have you upped your dinnerware game?

Oh, dude, for sure. How many plates and cups do you have i'm golden now i even have a set of brass coming in okay uh do we want to meet your girlfriend uh she's here uh so we're not official yeah we're not official that's not a girlfriend yeah yeah okay i yeah it's right there we can soft launch her nah we'll be good she's in the other room she seems lovely she is lovely

but yeah what's your what is different about this budding romance that has you excited about the possibility um the reciprocation

okay like this is the person what I give she's giving it right back so yeah it's been great the transparency we both have I mean she's obviously never been engaged or anything like that.

But like our history of relationships and them not meeting us in the middle. Now it's like beautiful because you meet someone that gives all their effort. And then I give all my effort. And then we're just like me in the middle. And it's great. We actually got matching tattoos yesterday. It's pretty cool. Matching tattoos yesterday?

You and your not girlfriend got matching tattoos? What is that Matching tattoo So because of the cooking class That we had That was like our first date So we were just like Yes chef We always say that

And so we got Yes chef Tattooed on us I mean tattoos Are more permanent than podcasts I was about to say He doesn't want to Stop on you

But they are Matching tattoos Pretty cool I do have a quick Going back Sorry Out of order But like Stacy's parents In the nicest possible way When they talk to you soft laundry but they are matching tattoos pretty cool i do have a quick going back sorry out of order but like stacy's parents in the nicest possible way when they talk to you you know

that kind of famous line love sometimes flies first class but in the nicest possible way they it seemed like they were trying to tell you that yeah stacy's a little spoiled yeah um her family was great like honestly they loved me still Still do. Was that your humility? I'm just kidding. They were awesome, man. But yeah, I mean, her dad knew. He was like, look, I know my daughter. This is how she is. This is what she wants.

He kept it very real. So yeah, can't be mad at it. No, I'm not mad at it. It was just more like, do you feel like you were listening as closely as you should have? Yeah. I knew what I was getting myself into. It wasn't anything that scared me. I can adapt.

Okay. Yeah. Okay. Well, Lizzie is Lizzie. You ever get that? Yeah. Actually, sometimes, yeah. It's crazy that you say that

because one of my buddies texted me yesterday saying something about looking next. He's like, oh my God, I thought, I thought I texted Lizzie. Izzy. That's kind of funny that you say that. Well, we appreciate you coming on. It's been great chatting with you both times.

Thanks for being vulnerable. It seems like you really tried to see if love was in fact blind. Yeah. What is, I guess, what is, what are your final thoughts? Love is blind.

Love is blind. Love is truly blind. Okay. Well, best of luck to you in this not relationship that has a matching tattoo

I feel like maybe you guys should just go ahead and make it official make it official he's a thoughtful guy I'm sure you have a plan of how you might want to do it

yeah okay like hey hop on a podcast you want to be my girlfriend there you go there you go yeah

it's coming soon. It's a first for everything. Yeah. We truly wish you the best, man. Thanks for coming on. It's been a pleasure getting to know you. Thanks for being so open and vulnerable and willing to ask. Hopefully our questions weren't too tough.

No, not at all. Can you remind our audience where people can find you? Yeah. So Instagram, Izzy Zapata underscore and TikTok, it's Izzy Zapata 2. Well, we want to thank Izzy again for being a vulnerable king. We wish him all the best. Don't forget to send in those questions at asknickatthevilefiles.com. If you're tuning in for the first time because you're just dying to hear what Izzy has to say,

just remember we drop at least three shows a week. On Monday, we have our Ask Nick episode, which is a lot of relationship stories. You might have heard Sweating the Wedding with Izzy on the first episode. A lot of calls like that, people calling in with their relationship problems. We offer some advice. Some of them find it helpful. Either way, people love those shows. On Reality Recaps, every Tuesday, we're usually breaking down some of your favorite reality TV shows like Love is Blind, Bachelor, Golden Bachelor, things like that, Housewives, and Talking Pop Culture. And just like this episode, on Going Deeper, we get into your favorite pop culture topics and interview some of your favorite TV personalities and musicians

and just other interesting people. So be sure to subscribe, tell your friends, tune in. Thanks for listening. We'll see you next time bye bye