The Viall Files - E659 Ask Nick Updates Special Episode - Part 13

Starting point is 00:00:00 what's going on everybody welcome back to another new and exciting episode of the vile files update special edition we got some good updates for you some real good ones some feel-good ones yeah yeah yeah some triumphs triumphs with endings being happy beginnings yes yeah i feel like we had one door closed and then another door open yeah so to speak sure yeah was the door open to window yeah Do we have any writer-enters we want to kick things off? Any updates? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:00:48 Do we remember Chelsea? She was from episode 621 and her friend was cheating on her boyfriend and she wasn't sure if she could continue to be friends with this person. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:00:58 Yeah. And so we encouraged her to have a conversation with her friend, hold her accountable and just say, I do not support these decisions you're making. So, I was finally able to talk to her, but it ended

Starting point is 00:01:10 up being through text message. She called me out on being distant with her lately, which I have, and I finally confronted her about it and set my boundaries with her in the way you guys advised me to. She didn't take it well, as expected. Basically, this is what she told me. And then she says, I copied it from Snapchat because this is the only way that she messages me now because she changed the settings to delete immediately after viewing. So her boyfriend doesn't see what she's talking about when he goes through her phone. Such a messy situation. So she said, I feel really hurt and betrayed by you pushing me away due to something I'm dealing with. I thought we were better friends than that.

Starting point is 00:01:43 I said, I understand why you feel hurt and I'm sorry for that. It's just difficult for me to support your behavior and I do not want to be an accomplice to it. I know you're better than the decisions you're making right now and it breaks my heart that you're going through this situation. I hope things change for you and again, I cannot support your decisions and it's too much for me to be around while you're making them. I would love our friendship to take off, but at this time, I need to distance myself and I hope you can understand that. Just know I'm not completely turning my back on you. If you need anything, I'm here for you. After that, she left me on read and didn't respond. I'm sure she's upset with me, but this was the right decision. After doing some

Starting point is 00:02:18 reflecting and hanging out with a new friend group that is a lot more healthy and supportive, I've come to realize she wasn't the greatest friend to me and has had a lot of toxic tendencies i don't hate her and i truly do want the best for her but ending this friendship is the right thing to do amazing love so slow yeah i mean that is being a friend, you know? And sounds like maybe she's realizing who that friend was. But like, that, what a response. I can't believe you're doing this to me while I'm going through something. No, you're not going through something. You're choosing this.

Starting point is 00:02:58 She's acting like it's happening to her. Like she's the victim. Right, right. Like it's passive. Yeah. You are fucking another guy while having a boyfriend and actively going out of your way to continue to hide it and even when you get called out for it yeah because like listen i think some people like i don't think they black out while

Starting point is 00:03:16 they're cheating and don't realize what they're doing but we all can justify our actions and get caught up in things things can snowball and we can kind of get out of control and sometimes it takes a friend to go what the fuck are you doing and have you go i'm like yeah what am i doing and clearly this friend didn't say that like no truly thought this was happening to her and she was stuck in a situation you know but she also says she's going through a relationship and a friendship breakup right now oh that's tough but i'm so glad about this new friend group yeah yeah that's amazing yeah because it can really give you new hope when you meet people and there's things that you might not

Starting point is 00:03:55 have even been able to articulate or define as missing from previous relationships but then when they're present it's so exciting and you're like i do deserve this but also like it would i wouldn't shock me to find out that it's not a coincidence that she's going through a friend breakup and our relationship breakup at the same time because if she is finally like holding people accountable for things that they aren't doing and letting people off the hook and looking the other way it wouldn't shock me if she is applying that same energy to her boyfriend. And maybe this is just her cleaning house, so to speak, and doing some much needed spring cleaning on her circle of influence. Hope so. Yeah. Spring cleaning in October. Yeah. dusting off the cobwebs so as sad as it is you know i don't know about the boyfriend but this this person was not serving her at all this was a

Starting point is 00:04:51 friendship based off of mostly history and not one that was based off of continuing to add value to each other's lives and all relationships require connection you know if your friendship's solely based off of loyalty you know because of history yeah and it's not really loyalty it's enabling a lot of the times yeah but we say it you call we call it loyalty yeah you know this we were friends in high school and so we're still friends because we had a an entire year where we were inseparable and then life happened we still were friends we came close but in the meantime you started dating someone else and then fucking someone else at the same time and i i hated that and you know you you changed and then when i tried to be

Starting point is 00:05:34 a friend to you you cut me off you know like this friend doesn't see her friend thinks she's gotten dumped but the reality is her friend broke up with our writer yes yeah yeah yeah which is sad because like obviously she was in this friendship for loyalty and that's the only reason that you know for so long up until this point she was like putting up with her friend's toxicity and now when push comes to shove and she's like no you're hurting me by you doing this and like making me an accomplice to this it's hurting me then her friend isn't giving her back the same loyalty yeah you know totally so it's not worth it how long like what are your like your longest standing friendships uh middle school girl scouts before

Starting point is 00:06:16 middle school yeah yeah i'm seeing her this weekend that's so cute that's awesome do you have like a lot of friends from like kind of like childhood? I'm just like thinking about like the good examples of loyalty. Kindergarten and middle school. Wow. I mean, we didn't really become close friends,

Starting point is 00:06:34 both of the guys, until like freshman year of high school. But one of them I've known since kindergarten and we were like friendly and the other one I met in seventh grade. And then in freshman year of high school, we all became close friends. There's something about about middle school as much as it kind of sucks when

Starting point is 00:06:49 you're going through it like the people who get you through middle school yes yes what about you well everyone hated middle school yeah actually I kind of liked middle school to an all-girls school okay it really freed me i could see that yeah really freeing yeah yeah yeah um but yeah same like uh pre-k and middle school yeah i don't know i was talking to my mom about um like dating and loyalty and all these things one time and she was just kind of like oh well like you have your friends from like this whole time and i feel like in some ways i don't like to use that as a standard. Cause I think it's some people just have like,

Starting point is 00:07:27 like some people's best friends, like go through addiction suffers or have these things develop in their life where it like is no longer healthy to pursue a friendship. But I guess it is one of those things where it's like, you shouldn't just qualify people who don't have it, but I think it can be a really good vote of confidence for people who do happen to have those kinds of like longstanding relationships. And and all right she left the door open she made it very clear very true you know like whenever you're ready to grow the fuck up and be a better person i'm here

Starting point is 00:07:53 and who knows she clearly isn't going to see it now she was never going to read that message and go oh you know so like who knows who knows what is going to happen in six months or a year? She may never come around. She may just be a lost cause. She don't him for the rest of her life. Well, I mean, she might. No, I mean, he'll she'll eventually get caught or something will happen and whatever. The big question is, will she ever like hit rock bottom to the point where other people see her for who she really is?

Starting point is 00:08:22 The lies will all catch up to her. people see her for who she really is, that the lies will all catch up to her. And will she be willing to look in the mirror and look back on the conversation her friend sent to her and said, you know what? Maybe this is a me problem. Maybe I'm not the victim. Who knows? But it's no longer her friend's responsibility or a writer in her. But the door is open. But the point is, if she does, if she does wake up, she will remember what her friend sent to her and she'll do the work and maybe reach out with a little bit more humility and grace to say thank you and i'm sorry you know you were right etc etc and if that time ever comes then this friendship can have a second life totally it's like sometimes it's like you just like sprinkle seeds everywhere

Starting point is 00:09:04 and then you walk away. And so you never get to see the flowers bloom. You might never find out that they do, but like, it's still kind of like the right thing to do even for your own peace of mind. So like do that.

Starting point is 00:09:14 What a great update. Uh, well, we got many more and they're going to start right now, but before we do, don't forget vile files plus, cause we got some more amazing updates for you there is there anything you ladies want to add or say or get off your chest or oh it's a little too much freedom yeah i am thinking about road rage do you get it often

Starting point is 00:09:40 yeah really i do i thought it was universal and people here okay i'm sorry this is shocking to me because you i i you are you your strength is empathy oh my god well it's like it's kind of the back side of that is it's like when there's people show a blatant disregard for others like oh my god i will actually like go off but la drivers are you certain of that or or is it just they're not they don't know you're there but that's the fucking point you're operating motor vehicles and you can't be bothered to look up from your fucking phone to go in the light turn screen like i get that maybe you're the first car so you're gonna make this protected left turn light no matter what but some people aren't and

Starting point is 00:10:21 they're gonna have to wait another three minutes. You got me there. It bothers me so much. The person in the front of, that happened to me yesterday. Person in the front of the line, clearly on their phone when they have a green turn signal and they don't see it

Starting point is 00:10:35 and they don't see it till the end and everyone else behind them gets fucked. Yeah. It's just, and it bothers me. But what about like the accident to like cut off, you know, or, you know, on the freeway? I don't let people like.

Starting point is 00:10:47 You don't let people in? Well, no, I don't let people cut me off unless I'm like, you're going to hit me. Like when people do that thing where they try to cut the line where they go in the exit only lane and then merge at the last second into the traffic. I do not leave enough space for them to get in. Like, I don't. I play defense. I'm like, fuck no. in like i don't i play defense i'm like fuck now take it like you you deserve to block that lane and to like be stressed and not do this again i'm a very like i keep my wits about me that i but i

Starting point is 00:11:14 do i have found like the if i do you think you enjoy being like a cop like a traffic cop like i don't think you actually want to be a cop but like is there something about being a cop with the power of punishing the people you find to be disrespectful drivers appeal to you? Yes. Because it's like, because the thing is, is that it's like, you're doing it this time in this way. Like right now you're on your phone. And so like the worst thing that happens is that like, we're all delayed a little bit and maybe we miss the next light. But like, if you're like, you could hit a fucking kid. You really could. Like just it is so preventable for you to not be doing like negligent crazy things. And I would love to bring down the hammer on people like that. And like when people

Starting point is 00:11:55 like are like driving like absolute maniacs, like cutting people off, like, you know, 20 miles over the speed limit on the freeway. And it's just like, what are you doing? Like, what are you doing? Why are you subjecting everybody else to your horrible fucking decision making? Like we are driving death machines. You're going 95 miles per hour in a death machine and you're going to kill people. You don't give a shit that you could kill people. It's horrible. I'm really glad you got this off your chest. Thank you. I thank you so much for giving me the space to do this. We'll pop up in the comments if you agree or disagree with Amanda. But we got some updates to get to, so let's get to them. Question time with Nick.

Starting point is 00:12:31 Let's ask Nick your sexy questions. Welcome back, Michelle. Thank you. Thank you for having me back. Good to talk with you. So last time we spoke, you were wondering if you should shoot your shot with someone who had ghosted you a couple, like a year or two prior to that. Let's play a quick clip and remind our audience about your first call. Welcome back, Michelle.

Starting point is 00:12:58 Thank you. Thanks for having me back. How's it going? Good, good. So remind our audience, last time time you called you were trying to shoot a shot with uh someone who had ghosted you in the past yeah yeah so i reached out because we had briefly tried dating long distance he doesn't live where i do he lives where my sister does and after a miscommunication over text he completely ghosted me. And then a few months later, he responded to one of my stories, started liking my post again, trying to slide back in, but I was still pretty

Starting point is 00:13:30 bent at the time. So I never answered him at that point. Fast forward two years later, just in kind of like a bored dating situation. I've seen him around town. I've seen his dating profile again. So just wanted to see if it was worth it to reach out and see if anything is still there or if he's grown up at all. Gotcha. What was the advice I gave you? And what did you do with that advice? You told me to say like, I have nothing better to do. Like, are you free to grab a drink? Yes. And basically imply that like my options were watching. Like you were randomly hitting them up and because you were bored. Yes.

Starting point is 00:14:04 Yes. And did you do that? So I didn't say I have nothing better to do just because that is so far outside my wheelhouse. But I did say I'm in town. My sister is busy and I'm just trying to find something to do. Okay. Free to grab a drink and catch up. Okay. And so he responded and said he for sure would have if he was home, but he was at a family party.

Starting point is 00:14:24 And I said, no worries. I know I'm asking last minute, maybe another time. And then he said, let me know the next time you make the journey back. And at that point, I actually already did have specific dates where I was coming back into town. It was already planned out, but I didn't want to come across too eager and be like, Oh, I'll be back on this date. Well, I said, I think I'll be back in a couple of weeks. I'll let you know. I didn't want to be like, I'll for sure be Well, I said, I think I'll be back in a couple of weeks. I'll let you know. I didn't want to be like, I'll for sure be here, you know, at date or whatever.

Starting point is 00:14:51 And so he didn't say anything after that. So I'm kind of just like, whatever. I tried, like, at least I shot the shot. I just don't know when I go back next week. I'll be there for a full week this time when I go back. If it's worth it to try again or just leave it be. Does he follow you on social media? He doesn't anymore. That's because I had followed him back in the day and removed him from my follow list as well. So we don't follow each other anymore. I don't think you should let him

Starting point is 00:15:19 know. Let's say you go to your sister's house for a week, don't hear from him. And then literally then Monday afterwards, he hits you up and says, are you coming to town anytime soon? When's that happening? Like that would actually be perfect. What a great opportunity for you to be like, oh no, I was literally just there maybe next time. And he will be like, why didn't you hit you up? And you could be like, oh, I was too busy. You know, you were busy doing shit. You weren't and aren't a priority. You know, you don't have to say that last part, but that's the message you'll give him, which is you're not waiting around for him. And then you can always go back in the future. But yes, I don't think you should be like, hey, I'm going to be back again. Are you free again? Like, this is a guy, again, very much has the power. He ghosted you in the past. He has shown example after example of just kind of only wanting to hang out with you at his convenience. And when push came to shove, he just disappeared on you. So like not a great track record. So you reached out, you tried. He wasn't there.

Starting point is 00:16:10 Ball's very much in his court. What if out of nowhere, he's like, what are your exact dates? When do you get to town? Drip him information. Or what if you follow him on Instagram, you re-follow him before you're there. And then day one.

Starting point is 00:16:25 Is your social media private? No, it's public. Okay, so it's public. Nothing's stopping him from having curiosity and viewing your stories right now. Post a couple stories over the next few days and then post something with your sister on the second day you get there. Don't be obvious about it. But we're getting into dangerous water here of putting a lot of energy into this guy we're not getting good vibes from this guy you know yeah and that was like my thought too and i remember jojo saying that i'll

Starting point is 00:16:54 just feel better once i send it and that's kind of how it was like i sent it and was like we'll see what happens and then when he responded i was like well whatever like i gave it a shot and now like that lingering curiosity is going away, which is good. This sounds like a guy who's at best going to be interested in having some sex. Yeah, no, I would agree with that. And my gut instinct was not to say anything when I went back. So I'm glad that you are in agreement with that. Do you have any other like prospects?

Starting point is 00:17:21 Are you on the apps? Like, can we get this guy out of our memory with a new hottie? I actually took a break from the apps. i deleted them all a few weeks ago i just where i'm at i feel like the options have gotten worse and worse this time it's gone on so it's making me like i don't want to say bitter but pessimistic a little bit so i just deleted them took a break gonna focus on myself for a bit. So no other prospects right now. Yeah. Okay. Well, you're going to be just fine. Well, thank you for the advice. I appreciate it. If anything else happens, I'll let you guys know. Oh, yes, please do.

Starting point is 00:17:57 Well, just remember, when you get back out there, it doesn't have to be like, you go cold turkey, you're completely off the apps, then you dive back into five apps. As long as you have self-control, you can be active on an app, maybe check it once a week for 10 minutes, and then challenge yourself to get out there and be social. You know what I'm saying? It doesn't have to be this like, now I'm dating, now I'm not dating. As long as you're able to have self-control when it comes to the apps, you can just sprinkle a little date time for yourself without making it such a big part of your life. It probably won't be the last time you hear from him. It just probably be like four months from now. Yeah, that sounds about right. So I'll keep you guys posted.

Starting point is 00:18:35 Keep in mind, you did give him permission to reach out to you when he's bored because technically you claim to have done the same thing. Yeah. So just know that when he does reach out in three months. Okay. Sounds good. All right. Take care. Thank you so much. All right. Thank you. All right. Bye-bye. All right. In your words, Michelle, what did we say? Give us a little 60-second explanation of that first call. What was the advice we gave you? And then where are we now? Yeah. So you told me to basically go into it with zero expectations,

Starting point is 00:19:06 but may as well shoot my shot and just see what happens since it has been a couple years. But to let him know that I'm doing this because it was like really last minute, I was bored and had nothing better to do. Did we have the message that we sent? Because we didn't, we did we shoot a shot? Was it an active situation or no? We did shoot the shot um i did it later so not while i was on the call with you guys i said something like i'm in town and my

Starting point is 00:19:31 sister is busy and i'm just trying to find something to do tonight like are you free to go drink and he said he would if he didn't have plans but like to let him know when i was coming back and i said you know i think i'll be back in a couple weeks and then he didn't answer from there and so that's where when you guys told me next time, like, don't reach out to him, don't text him, just see if he reaches out, maybe post on some Instagram stories to see if he's like checking and knows that I'm in town. So, I mean, I always post when I'm in town anyways, like I'm pretty active on stories as it is, but never heard from him. So nothing happened that time. But when I went back a different time, I saw him at like the local gym, because I'll work out when I go there, because I go for like,

Starting point is 00:20:12 you know, a week or more at a time and like to stay on my routine and stuff. And so I saw him at the gym, wasn't even sure it was him the first time he was like, kind of far away, had a hat on like pulled super low. And I was like, I think away had a hat on like pulled super low and i was like i think that's him but like i can't be certain and so i left and he has like a very like distinct like fancy car and i saw it in the parking lot like and i was like that's him like that was definitely him in there and like the way he was parked like he was parked over two spots i'm like oh my god i hate him. Like, I hate him. Hate him.

Starting point is 00:20:47 I saw that. I was like, I'm like, not even remotely interested anymore. So that was that. Never heard from him. Went back a different week, saw him again. And we still like, haven't said anything to each other. So it just like feels really weird. You saw him at the gym again or saw him?

Starting point is 00:21:04 Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And you don't acknowledge it? You didn't acknowledge him? Yeah. Why didn't you go up to him? there so it just like feels really weird you saw him at the gym again or saw him yeah okay yeah and you don't acknowledge you didn't acknowledge yeah why didn't you go up to him i mean i understand annoying he didn't say anything to you either but it's a two-way street i know i don't know i just feel like at that point i'm like i know he probably saw me too like it's not a big gym there was like maybe 10 people in there i'm like the only girl i'm like there's no way you don't see me so like i'm like if he's not gonna say hi like i feel like because i reached out and like he never answered again after that like why would i then go up and be like hey i'm here when he like wasn't interested the first time is my thought and now it does just feel weird but like

Starting point is 00:21:46 i'm just i'm not even interested anymore anyways i mean that parking in two spots ick it's douchey hate it huge egg like honestly huge egg so but a justifiable one no that's more than an egg that's up there as like a top five, like instant reactions for who someone is. Yeah. Like not tipping a waiter enough. Something like that. Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:22:12 I bet he wouldn't tip a waiter enough. I don't, I don't mean to make assumptions about this man. I don't remember his tipping habits when we went on our dates. I never, I never saw what he did. Yeah. Well, not something because you know sometimes people are bad at math and maybe they give a but like if someone has like a standard tipping rule where it's like i only tip like 15 if it's really good and i'll you know

Starting point is 00:22:35 like and if they blow my mind i'll give them 20 like one of those people like hate that you suck yeah michelle have you noticed at all if he's been viewing your stories at all um i've like switched my profile back and forth from private to public just for why other reason because i had another guy that i was seeing that it didn't end well with and he was like stalking my stuff so i'm sorry for a bit first i just made it private why don't you just block them but yeah i did okay oh okay but if he makes another account or something like that like okay yeah like his friends you know so oh no oh no i hate that different situation i do know is being stalked like simultaneously scary and a bit of an ego boost or is it just

Starting point is 00:23:22 no i think it's just scary it's kind of weird people can monitor you in the ego way like stalking is it's like the level of like like i feel like fear just like takes over any amount of like oh a person's really interested in me okay where are you now with your love life with your heart um back on the apps haven't really seen like much success from there so i'm like i'm open but just kind of like not trying to force anything and but the biggest takeaway of this call is you basically saw how he parked and immediately reassessed your entire level of interest yeah as a win well i mean that and the fact that he ghosted didn't answer when i said i was coming

Starting point is 00:24:03 back you know there's multiple factors here but that was the yeah but we knew it got the ghosting you were willing to forgive that you know a year later but you basically got an update in terms of who he was as a person just by looking about how looking at how he parked like i'd be mortified if we were out somewhere and he did that it's funny like what we i mean i say women because like i don't really know if men do this, but I definitely know that I do this. Like, what we can excuse in terms of, like, boys that we like and in terms of, like, specifically how they treat us. But then seeing something like that, like, that is the thing that turns you off. It's sobering.

Starting point is 00:24:39 You know, we're amazing. It says so much about that person. Yes. So much. It does. It does. we're amazing it says so much about that person yes so much it does it does like why do you get two spots like i don't know and like what kind of car does he drive what kind of car does he drive like a corvette or something like i mean it looks expensive so like i get it but like what kind of house does he live in does he have a house or does he live in an apartment he has a house yeah regular house is it like daddy's money or does he have a good job i think it's a bit of both like i don't love that either i think he is good

Starting point is 00:25:17 with his money but i don't know if he's that good with his money like that's an expensive car just like if you're if your car's value like there's you know is a certain it's close to how much your house or apartment costs you know yeah it's up there for sure that's a red flag yeah on so many levels and then not even like and money management is on the bottom of the of that that list of what's wrong with you. It's just more about what's important to you. It's so much about what... It's so surface level.

Starting point is 00:25:53 It's so outward facing. How others see versus what you come home to. Yeah. Yeah. This guy was king of the douchebags. Yeah, 100%. And it was just super off-putting and so like just seeing that i was like i'm no i'm done like not even interested like i'd be so what a blessing

Starting point is 00:26:11 i don't believe in fate but you know if if but that was the universe saying stop wasting your time on this guy by you seeing his car 100 which is like, the second time I saw him, I'm like, I don't even care to go say hi. I'm like, I know you see me. You could say hi. Like, I've already put the effort out there. I'm not going to do it again when I don't even want to go grab a drink with him at this point. So, now it's just kind of like, whatever. But, like, I'll be back in a couple weeks if i see him again who knows but yeah we probably

Starting point is 00:26:47 won't i think we just i do still follow him on instagram no okay good out of curiosity like if he did come up to you at the gym and was like hey what's going on what would you do just just like shut it down or i mean i'd probably say hi and just like make small talk and then be like gotta go you know you'd definitely be nice yeah yeah but i'm not gonna make the effort but you would I mean, I'd probably say hi and just like make small talk and then be like, gotta go. You know? You'd definitely be nice. Yeah. Yeah. But I'm not going to make the effort.

Starting point is 00:27:13 But you would, to be clear, you also would decline an invitation for drinks. Yes. Great. I would just say I'm very busy. I mean, if nothing else, it shows that I came back to town and I did not reach out to him. Yeah. You know? Well, we don't really care what he thinks at this point.

Starting point is 00:27:25 So we're not, we don't care how he interprets it, interprets it or sees it or whatever. We just don't care. Yeah. No, I would not go. This feels like a case closed. I feel like we got a case closed. Yeah. Yeah. Case closed. Case closed. All right, Michelle. Well, thank you for the update. We are glad that you are no longer wasting your energy

Starting point is 00:27:47 trying to get the attention of a man who ghost you. Yeah, thank you. The universe stepped in. What a blessing. It really did. It really did. All right. Well, take care.

Starting point is 00:27:58 Thanks so much for the update. Thank you. All right, Michelle. Bye-bye. So we have a written update it is from Paul who was our

Starting point is 00:28:09 resident boy who recently called in he had cheated on his girlfriend like 8 months ago oh for lost the job then

Starting point is 00:28:16 cheated on his girlfriend because it was like emotional internet cheating not that that's okay like a sex bot not that that's okay but there was no sex but there was no sex yeah there was no sex yeah there's

Starting point is 00:28:25 no meeting up yes i think it was a two-day thing it was over the course of two days but anyway we like encouraged him to write a letter he was living at home wanting to find a new job somehow move back to where she was yeah no i vividly remember this guy he was uh and uh i basically told him he needed to essentially mentally move on from her and do the work because right now he was too focused on getting her back and she could sense that kind of energy and he almost needed to say goodbye to her even in a letter i think i suggested him writing a letter whether he sent it or not and i know he mentioned that she i think listens to this show it's almost like it sounded like he was trying to get through to her via this

Starting point is 00:29:05 show i'm really curious i don't know what the update is but i'd love to know if she heard that i don't know oh i don't know that but he did say we've definitely made some good progress i've continued with therapy and things are going really well i'm actually moving back and getting my own place next week and have a potential job lined up he's moving back to where she was yeah he was living with mom and dad at the time. Exactly. We've been talking more and she's been helping me look for places to move into. I did write a letter, but she hasn't mentioned it yet.

Starting point is 00:29:31 And then he says, I'd love to come back on, but it might be better in another week or two so I can be back in the same city with her and actually have talked to her face to face. So super excited. It's a good situation in a good way. Yeah. Things are looking up. I'm more cautious okay oh because it's right now he's in a situation where it sounds like she broke as many people do sometimes

Starting point is 00:30:01 she broke up with him not because she wanted to because she felt like she ran out of options uh in terms of getting him to be the partner that she wanted to be violated her trust with his internet activity and things like that and i hope this is more about him than getting her back and right now i think his this is for her for him about getting her back and the big question is is will he be able to maintain whatever work he's doing on himself even after he gets her back because these little breadcrumbs like her helping him get a place like why is she helping like i get i get he's excited and it's like a positive sign. It's like she's probably keeping her boundaries, but I mean, it's a great sign for him.

Starting point is 00:30:55 It's a great sign about the possibility of her taking him back because if she was truly done, she wouldn't bother, you know? So she's kind of keeping tabs on him by helping him look for a place but i see what you're saying of how that can almost be potentially difficult because it's still uncertain how it's gonna it changes the goal for him you know now he has hope to get her back also changes like the incentive of of it's no longer he's doing it. It's no longer about him really hitting rock bottom. And maybe he's committed enough to still follow through. It's just this situation in the short run is making it harder for him to develop in the person

Starting point is 00:31:44 he said he wanted to be and not that he can't be and not that he can't follow through with it it just makes it harder uh what's a good analogy you know well i feel like it's like that phrase where it's like character is who you are when no one's watching and now someone's watching and so that's not like you don't you lose all points for doing the right thing but it's like the whole point is now someone is watching so you were incentivized to do the good thing in a different way where before you were trying to get to the point where like no matter if anybody was watching or not you were going to hold yourself accountable into a certain standard yeah you know it's like if you have a

Starting point is 00:32:15 goal if you can see the light at the end of the rainbow you know like it's it motivates you you know when you ask yourself why am I doing this, whatever this is, if she was off the grid, if she truly gave him the impression that there is no hope, the this, why is he doing this, would be about being the best partner he could be for whoever will love him in the future. But it's about him being a great partner. The this now with her giving a little hope is to get her back. And it's so hard to self-police yourself and note a difference. I, you know, like I said this multiple times when I was first on the bachelorette, I knew I had

Starting point is 00:32:58 feelings for Andy, but I also knew I was competitive. And I honestly just didn't know which one was influencing me more. I couldn't honestly answer that question because I was in it. You know, the best thing that I could do was just acknowledge that I didn't know what was the motivating factor and just being self-aware about that, you know, because I knew I had feelings. I knew they were genuine, but I knew they were, you know, I was competitive, but I didn't know what was the stronger force driving me in that direction and so like i don't doubt he wants to be a best possible partner but he also has the goal of getting her back and it's like what's

Starting point is 00:33:35 the stronger driving force you know will he really keep himself motivated to do that stuff after he gets her back and things like that. So nice update for him. I know, but I just, if you're listening, you know, just really slow it down and try not to get too excited about getting her back because I know the feeling, you know, I've, I have tried to get exes back in the past and it really motivates you, you know, to like be, oh, you're getting close. And like, I'm going to show her. And I want to do this and do that. And especially if you have a broken heart over a breakup, it makes you forget about your broken heart.

Starting point is 00:34:15 And it just gives you something to focus on other than feeling sad about yourself. You know what I'm saying? It's just, it's a tricky, tricky situation. But I wish him all the best, you know, and I hope we get to talk to him. Maybe she'll come down. I'm definitely going to ask if she'll listen to the podcast. You know what I even love even more?

Starting point is 00:34:34 I would love for her to call in separate. On her own. On her own. And I'd love to hear her Taylor's version, you know? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:34:43 And not to like, not that we don't believe him i just it's just i want to hear that perspective because we've talked to him and he he truly i really enjoy talking to him he seemed so sincere and sad and really you know it wasn't even a bad you know like honestly he was really hard like not to downplay what he did because what he did was wrong but we have seen people do far worse when it comes to cheating and things like that and hold themselves far less accountable like he clearly had a moment of weakness that is for sure he owned it seemed like he owned up to it but it was like the straw that broke the camel's back in this situation but he generally seemed like

Starting point is 00:35:20 a solid dude who who really wanted to be a better partner. But I'd really love to hear her version. You're listening. Email me. You're listening. We'd like to hear you. Well, we got another update. Let's get to it. Hold on to your kilts, dearies.

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Starting point is 00:37:27 Good. Last time we talked, in your words, why don't you bring us up to speed? So last time we spoke, I was having like two kind of issues in one. The first was, I just wasn't sure if I wanted to break up with my boyfriend or not. And then if I felt like I should, I just wanted to talk through like advice on how I could, I don't know, break up with someone for the first time. And why were you thinking about breaking up with them again? It just felt like we,

Starting point is 00:38:00 it does feel like we are still together. It just feels like we might be two different people that have similarities and really connect on like a more surface level rather than like a long-term level. So you had encouraged me to have an honest conversation with him. We had been talking about moving and he was kind of getting ahead of himself talking about like marriage and where we would live and i hadn't exactly warmed up to it totally so you had encouraged me to have an honest conversation about where my feelings were at and maybe that could be the first step in figuring things out.

Starting point is 00:38:51 Because he was kind of a country boy, kind of small town. And it's like he was really excited about your future, but he had a very specific vision of that future that matched his needs and not necessarily yours. Correct. Yeah. Let's play a quick clip from your first call to bring our audience up to speed. Hi, I'm Zoe. I'm 30 and I need help deciding if I should break up with my boyfriend. Okay. We're long distance. Okay. And I think it just feels like every time we see each other, there's like an event and families involved and our families are friends. And every time it just feels like this is the worst possible time to break up with someone if i do feel that way there is never a good time

Starting point is 00:39:31 to break up with someone there you know what i'm saying there's not a better time or a worse time unfortunately you know when you break up with someone you're going to be the villain in their story and you might be the villain in their friends' stories, you know, in their family's stories. And that sucks. And we hate that. That's just kind of part of it. Is that more than anything what's holding you back?

Starting point is 00:39:54 Is the worrying about hurting him and the fallout? Or what do you enjoy about the relationship? He's just like the kindest person I've ever dated. The kindest person you've ever dated. The kindest person you've ever dated. I just feel like he always thinks about me first, which is really nice and is like willing to kind of like make sacrifices. And it sounds like the bare minimum, but I think like all of my friends and family have been like, oh, like this is the kind of guy you marry. Like he's so stable and he makes me feel really safe.

Starting point is 00:40:25 Like, I know you talk about that a lot. I'm just not sure if we're totally compatible long-term just because he is like a small town guy. He works in construction. He needs to be there. I live in a big city. We're like an hour flight from each other. And I don't know if I'm done traveling and like seeing the world and that's just not really possible for him. And I don't know if I'm done traveling and like seeing the world and that's just not really possible for him. And I feel like I would be giving up that to pursue this relationship. I feel like I just want someone who's a little bit more fluid and doesn't need to be so rigid with like, I have to be back for work, which I understand. I just have a job that happens to be able to be remote. I guess my question is because here, which I understand. I just have a job that happens to be able to be remote.

Starting point is 00:41:05 I guess my question is because here, here's what I'm hearing. I'm dating a guy who's like literally the nicest fucking person in the world. But right now I just want to travel a bit more. I have some flexibility in my job and I, there's some things I want to do, but I'm just wondering why do you need to like cut this person out of your life to, to meet these goals? You've only been dating this guy for six months. All right. So like no one needs to like be family planning anytime soon.

Starting point is 00:41:29 Yeah. That's also what I'm wondering, but it also feels like something's missing. And I don't know if I'm wrong for saying that, or I'm too picky and not focusing on the right things, but. All right. Well, what do you think is missing? Let's try to figure it out. focusing on the right things, but. All right. Well, what do you think is missing? Let's try to figure it out. I think that I really am attracted to more like cerebral people, intellectual people.

Starting point is 00:41:53 I feel like he's just a little bit more basic. But, you know, to your point that you've made before, he does try like he always tries to learn new things. And I'm like, I don't know. There's just certain things that I'm like, i wish that he like what i mean he's never traveled outside the u.s and he doesn't he's just very small town like i don't know how else to kind of like fast no i i hear you and i don't know those things can evolve you know type of thing i don't know if you have to make a decision, I guess is my point. We have had a couple of conversations just because I've told him I'm not sure if I ever want to move to where you are. Okay. He's been very calm and just like, how can I make it easier?

Starting point is 00:42:38 Because it seems like that's our only option. Well, so there you go. I mean, that's a potential non-negotiable. And you're going to say, like, listen, what i'm saying is i don't think i ever want to that was kind of one of the things we talked about when we first reconnected i kind of feel like he duped me a little bit because i kind of feel like he was like well let's just see what happens and now it feels like he is wanting to stay there with his family and isn't willing to move too far well yeah that's something you can address you know and say it sounds like this is a non-negotiable potentially

Starting point is 00:43:14 for you you know like wherever you want to live for the rest of your life is a big deal and people take that for granted when they try to pretend, you know, that love conquers all. Like, you know, he's like that. It's easy for him to say when he's expecting you to move. Right. He's not like that because he wouldn't do that for you. Right. I feel like he overlooks red flags a lot when he says things.

Starting point is 00:43:40 Sometimes I'm just like, you need to go to therapy and like work on yourself and like sit with these feelings I do think it would be fair for you to say hey listen as happy as it makes me feel at times to feel your excitement about us you'd sometimes say things that make give me pause and I've done a lot of work on myself you know if you're open to it like you know maybe that could be something you're into like Like, he's going to have to go on his own pace. But you know what I'm saying? I guess it's just, it's communication. It's being able to talk about these difficult things, these awkward things, and just stating your feelings without sugarcoating them or softening them with like words like, well, not really, and maybe, and kind of, and sometimes when in reality, it is just how I feel and it's always, or it's never, you know what I'm saying? I definitely don't want to do that. Do you think it's a conversation I can have on FaceTime?

Starting point is 00:44:33 Yeah. I mean, you have a long distance relationship, so that's how these things kind of work. Yeah, I think FaceTime is totally fine. He is talking like he's willing to compromise, but he's not showing his willingness to compromise through his actions. And you have the right to point that out to him. Totally fine. we can find compromise. These are the things I'd love to work on, you know, because these are the things that I find a priority. You find this a priority and, you know, we don't have to decide today, but I do want to be upfront about the disconnect I'm having and let's just be honest about it and let's talk through it and let's just not pretend that our honeymoon feelings will solve

Starting point is 00:45:21 all our problems because they just won't. That's exactly i feel he's like we'll figure it out babe it's like like no when well i i want to figure this out now yeah say that and then go and see where it goes okay that's great thank you all right well keep us posted we're uh we're dying to know okay all right thank you all good luck all right bye-bye all right we played the clip great all right and so we told you to kind of have a come to jesus conversation with him about like basically the your compatibility and make sure you know he understood your long-term needs you know like it was more like hey i'm excited you're excited. And yeah, there's a lot to like about our relationship, but I don't necessarily feel understood and seen by you because he was kind of bulldozing over your needs and assuming that his desires for the

Starting point is 00:46:18 relationship matched yours. Correct. Exactly. So how did that conversation go? So we did have it in person since we were seeing each other relatively soon. I decided just to wait. And I was very honest. I didn't use like the maybe terms like you say to stay away from. And he honestly didn't have a lot to say. He just kind of like nodded and said he never wants to like push me into doing anything that doesn't feel right for me or that i don't want to do so it was a positive conversation he just didn't really have a lot of feedback or anything to say so we're just kind of in this spot where i'm still trying to figure things out so he was like he stated the obvious which is i don't want to kidnap you and make you like live a life that you hate essentially he agreed not to traffic you basically what a king i mean obviously i'm joking but in a way by saying well i don't want you to do i don't want to make you do anything you don't want to do.

Starting point is 00:47:26 That's probably why it felt so empty on your end because duh, you know, right? Like that's truly bare minimum. Cause that would be, that would literally be kidnapping. That would be trafficking you into a life of servitude, you know? Well, you know, cause imagine it imagine it's like well oh shit i thought i was just gonna like make you do it even though if you didn't want to but he what he didn't do correct me if i'm wrong is actually learn more and ask more questions about what it is what it is that you want for yourself in your relationship or ask things about, well, what can I do to make you feel

Starting point is 00:48:06 like your relationship needs are met? And what does happiness look like for you in a relationship with us and find ways to meet you in the middle? It sounds like he didn't do any of that. So we've had one conversation prior to this where it was less direct and he did say things like that, but it just felt like we could have talked through more. I don't know. It felt like the first conversation is kind of like an icebreaker. And then this could have been a little bit of a deeper conversation about it. about it and I don't know just maybe make him truly consider like there is a possibility that this doesn't work out and we are just different or I don't know like you said just exploring more and it just felt like I was talking and he was agreeing and that was it where are we now so it felt nice to have that conversation because when he's brought up like,

Starting point is 00:49:08 like being married or like babies one day, I've had to say like, I thought we talked about kind of like putting those conversations on hold. So that feels nice to be able to do that. But I was able to connect with my old therapist who I love. And I kind of spit everything out at him that we had kind of talked about and then just obviously a little bit deeper because he's my therapist and he was saying that it's kind of fair that there's this guy who checks like a lot of these amazing boxes but maybe for you like being adventurous and intellect like those boxes aren't being checked and you're allowed to kind of feel

Starting point is 00:49:53 like maybe that's not your match even if for some other people like that wouldn't matter to you it does yeah so i've been toying with that a lot and I just feel like my gut feels like he's not my person. And although like we have the best times together, I feel like I have to just muster it up and break up with him. Okay. What are you going to do if he really tries to get on the same page with you not sure if it's possible okay well that's why i asked because like the big question is is this something that you think he's capable of doing or are you finally getting to a place where it's just like i just i know that we want different things and i don't want to make you like just like he doesn't want to make you do anything that you don't want to do you don't want to make him you know suck it up constantly because you just know the things that you want a relationship ultimately would make him miserable over time. Precisely. Yeah, that's exactly. I just, I feel like what I'm looking for,

Starting point is 00:51:10 he wouldn't be happy even if he was willing to provide it. Like, I don't think it would make him happy. Just like, I'm not sure it would make me happy to give him what he's looking for in a relationship. So how do you want to go about doing this are you 60 sure 99 sure where are you at say like 70 70 well where's this other 30 it's a pretty big number 30 i know um i guess it was all the positive things that we had talked through originally just i mean it's hard to find like a truly kind person and so is there i just want to other i want to feel 100 sure could you well you never are we're never 100 so you know there is there is that but i guess the big question you got to ask yourself are these these areas in which you just don't think he's gonna you talk about talk about maybe certain conversations and topics, things you like to talk about, intellectual, like deeper conversations or whatever.

Starting point is 00:52:09 Can you scratch that itch through via friends and other people? You know, I like to have deep intellectual conversations. And Natalie and I, I talk about everything. But there are certain conversations that I'm better off having with other people or friends just because like, you know, Natalie will sometimes, but like she also just doesn't give a shit about like certain things that I want to talk about, you know, and I just talk about with other people, you know. So I guess my question is, is can you scratch an itch with other people in your life? Because our partner, our romantic partners are not perfectly made for us, so to speak. Our romantic partners are not perfectly made for us, so to speak. We're never going to be 100% compatible with someone, you know, and that doesn't mean that the areas in which we're not compatible, we have to give up in a relationship. We could just, that's the part of the relationship that independence is important, you know,

Starting point is 00:53:00 and the freedom to do other things either with yourself or with other friends so that, you know, we don't put it on our partners to fill our emotional cups with everything because that's exhausting too. So I guess the only way for you to make this relationship work that you're in that you still see a lot of good and you're afraid to give up a lot of the good stuff, but you feel like you're shortchanged in other areas is to find that balance via other people and not expect him to fill those cups that he's not currently filling does that make sense totally i mean it's something i thought about from the beginning because i knew that that would be the case and i was talking to a friend about it, who we do get like deep and

Starting point is 00:53:46 intellectual and spiritual, all that. And I was like, maybe it's nice to have a relationship that's lighter and we don't have to be like serious and get into all this. But I do feel like it's been missing it because that is something I was considering. I think for me, it's something that I do want. Like, yeah. Now your big trick is going to be able to, is going to, how do you break up with this guy and give him an explanation? Because everyone who gets dumped wants a reason why without sounding like a dick. Right.

Starting point is 00:54:17 You know, tough. You're in a tough spot there. Well, can't you just be like, I'm not willing to move. It doesn't seem like you're really willing to move. And I just don't want to do long distance anymore. Well, unless he panics and says, I'll do anything to not lose you. And she's got to say no to that because it's like, well, sorry, just kidding. It's not that you're not enough for me.

Starting point is 00:54:38 I think what I've thought about is because there is a part of me that wants to live in Europe for some time and like he logistically can't. And like when I say some time, I mean, you're going to run away, spend time there and maybe live there because I do have family there. So that's something he logistically wouldn't do. And he also wouldn't be happy doing that. So I feel like that's a fair way out love that yeah but you just have to not give him hope yeah you're right every feel free to like this is just first idea so maybe a really really bad one is there some way of slightly more kindly but maybe just like saying you are not enough for me and you are so amazing and you are you like there are so many people for whom like

Starting point is 00:55:35 you would be enough you can't lead with you're not enough i know i know but do you know what i'm saying of like something that's basically like i feel like i have seen so many of your good qualities and i can't even appreciate them because there are certain things that are lacking and you deserve to be with someone who doesn't have those barriers who can just appreciate all of the wonderful things that you have i mean you've heard me say you gotta you gotta do the selfish thing and allow your ex to hate you so maybe who gives a fuck maybe not it's not enough like maybe be like you have so many like you have several spectacular qualities and i feel so shitty like saying this but like somehow it's just not quite enough because the things that are lacking

Starting point is 00:56:17 are fundamental or you make yourself feel like the martyr it's just like i kind of say what you said to us it's just like i just there's just so many things I want to do that I just know you just don't have an interest in. And I, and you are such a great guy that I don't doubt that you would probably try to do all these things that I want to do, but that wouldn't make you happy. And I just know that it wouldn't make me happy. And I just, I want to focus on me right now and just call yourself self, like self, like say you're in a selfish, you know, state of life right now.

Starting point is 00:56:48 Cause there's some truth to that and just be the bad guy, you know, let him get mad at you and, you know, let him feel like, you know, it's like make him feel like he would do these things, but you're,

Starting point is 00:56:58 you don't want him to, because you're trying to think of him to some version of that. But at the end of the day, it's okay. It's okay. If he gets mad. Yeah day, it's okay if he gets mad. Yeah. I don't think he'll get mad. I think he'll just be sad, which I'm sad

Starting point is 00:57:10 thinking about. Who knows? Be honest, even at the risk of hurting him, but be kind. And you never know what could happen. Don't give him hope, but that doesn't mean that there isn't any. Maybe you go to Europe and you get all this out of your system, and maybe that's it. Maybe right now he is representing a future that you might be interested in, but right

Starting point is 00:57:36 now, what you do know right now is that there are things in your life that you haven't done that you want to do. And he represents you settling down. He represents you slowing down. He represents you making your world smaller and focusing on your community, all of which at the right time can be amazing things for everyone. But that's not where you're at right now. And that's what he represents to you. And so who knows? And I wouldn't say this shit to him because that would give him hope, but you might go to Europe, live there for a year and quote unquote, get this out of your system.

Starting point is 00:58:18 He may be unavailable by then, but you just, who knows, you know? I agree. All right. Well, I think, I think you have an answer. I think you're 99% and it's a scary because there are, because you can never be a hundred percent and that 1% feels like 30%, but it's really 99%. You have your answers. You haven't disagreed with me, anything we've said, and you're right. You can't predict the future. And that 1%, knowing that like, he's% knowing that he's great and there's so many good qualities and qualities that you might hope for and yearn for in the future, but you selflessly understand that you can't put him on hold for a year while you do whatever the fuck you want to

Starting point is 00:58:57 do. You don't want that burden of having to worry about his feelings while you are focused on yourself. Listen, there's a time to And listen, there's a time to be selfish and there's a time to be selfless in someone's life. And the important thing is, is to be able to recognize that and just be honest with the people around you of what to expect from you. It's the people that are selfish and pretend to be selfless and talk a big game, and then they disappoint people and let people down. You're not letting people down by being selfish if you're upfront with them. You're doing a good thing by being honest with yourself and then being honest with the people around you about what you

Starting point is 00:59:35 need and what they can expect from you. The worst kind is the people who don't like to think that they could be selfish. They don't want to be called selfish. And so they pretend that they aren't. And yet they still are and let people on and let people down. They want everyone to think they're a great friend and they'll step up as soon as it's convenient and things like that. But then when push comes to shove, they let people down. And you're just being upfront about it. There's definitely a time in our lives where it's important to focus on ourselves, to prioritize ourselves. Because if we're not self-fulfilled, we can't make other people happy. But there is a balance to that, right? You have to find that balance. You can't be a

Starting point is 01:00:11 self-centered person your whole life because then you just suck. But I think what you're doing is self-aware and healthy. And it sounds like you got to do it. Thanks, Nick. I appreciate the confidence. I mean, I think, when are you going to do it. Thanks, Nick. I appreciate the confidence. I mean, I think, when are you going to do it? I don't know. There's no good time. You're never going to be ready. It's never going to feel good.

Starting point is 01:00:33 Also, one thing I do want to say is just that holidays is the time where the most people are like, I can't do it now. So I feel like just considering that as like a very significant, like soon to the better deadline is also worth. Give him a month to be sad about you so you can enjoy Thanksgiving and Christmas. But I have to do it in person, right?

Starting point is 01:00:56 It's the nicer thing to do, but he's long distance. Yeah. I don't even know if that's the nicer thing to do. Cause then, because then he'll feel like he's traveling to get broken up with yeah or or looking forward to seeing you and then you show up and you're like just kidding there is no nice way yeah and i still have a great weekend i still think in i don't i don't want to justify like in person is always the best but in

Starting point is 01:01:21 this situation because it's long distance and because you are always waiting to see each other and there's anticipation, it's a bit of a wrinkle. I think you just call them up tonight, FaceTime them, and just, yeah, say, I've been, you know, I know we've talked about this. I've been thinking. And I think the best thing we can do is to move on. I know I'm going to Europe. I've decided I need to do this. And I know it's selfish of me, but this is what I need to do for myself. And I don't want to ask you to wait around. And I need to do this. And I am sorry. I think that's all you got to say.

Starting point is 01:01:59 Okay. It sucks. But it sounds like you're doing the right thing you've thought about this long enough you know you've been consistent with your doubts we've already talked it's been a long enough time like nothing's changing right i'm glad i i'm selfishly glad i can do it on facetime because i think the travel thing was what was what has been holding me back the most i'm like either he comes here and then we have a great weekend you know like so i'm glad that you validated the facetime yeah and given the whole like i'm really scared about letting you go because of so many great qualities but like i just need to do this because if i can't do this i won't be happy you won't be happy we'll be miserable but i am

Starting point is 01:02:40 scared to lose those qualities but i have to let you go. Don't say anything about maybe in the future or shit like that. No. You're 100% right. Thank you. Well, good luck. I know it's going to suck, but you can get through it and then please update us after how that went.

Starting point is 01:02:59 Things you learned, what you learned, how it's going. We'll do. You're going to be fine. You'll get through it. Okay. I appreciate it. And also have fun in Europe. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:03:10 As soon as you get through this breakup, you're allowed to dream about your future without feeling guilty about it. Thank you for saying that. Yeah. It's a little scary, but you're not going to regret it. You're just not. I mean, there are people that I broke up with or I didn't pursue that I look back and go, they were pretty great. Why didn't I do this or why did I do that? And that usually comes when I was feeling the most lonely or the biggest gap between a connection. And yeah, they were great. And it was easy to look back on my time with them and, you know, smile, you know, because they were a great person. But like, I just always remembered there was something I, you know, missing or whatever you

Starting point is 01:03:50 want to call it, you know? And yeah, I had to be more patient to get where I wanted to be, but I never regretted it, you know? I just more, you know, I was like, wow, they were really great. And I hope they're doing well. It's weird you say that because I picture myself saying that in like a year. And who knows? You never know. Maybe life will bring you guys back together. But right now you guys are not compatible.

Starting point is 01:04:17 Appreciate the validation. Alright, well good luck. Keep us posted. Thanks, Nick. Congrats on Baby Girl. Thank you. Bye-bye. Bye. We have another written update it's from trixie she was on our episode with raven and miranda uh and she needed help sending a text to her husband to convince him to sign divorce papers oh my gosh. Remember? Yes. Yeah. They got married really quickly.

Starting point is 01:04:46 It was kind of like visa marriage vibes. Yes. Yeah. And he just was not coming to the table. Yeah. And she was like, I don't know if I should reach out to his mom. Yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:04:57 Yeah. I remember that. All right. What's the update? After texting office hours, I sent him a very direct text stating that I would take legal action if he refused to cooperate by our divorce by a deadline. She gave him four days. I did

Starting point is 01:05:09 not get a response from him whatsoever and decided not to involve his family out of respect that they had nothing to do with this mess. So I did the big girl thing and talked to a lawyer on my own. A quick and free consultation taught me that I in fact did not need his signature to get divorced. I feel like we recently talked about this.

Starting point is 01:05:26 Yeah, we did. This gave me enough momentum to immediately file for divorce, knowing that I will come out of this on the other side very soon, whether he agrees with it or not. I'm still a free woman after all, lol. Then she thanks us. She's so deeply related to the narrative of this is such a daunting task that if it's paralyzing me from doing what I would normally and logically do, whereas now I realize it's a fairly easy process compared to the worst

Starting point is 01:05:50 case scenarios that were completely made up in my own head. Obviously, it's not ideal or stress free to go through a divorce no matter what the circumstances, but there's so much to say about romanticizing it as the solution. Your perception is your reality indeed. I feel like I've stepped into my power and confidence to be self-assertive and take control of my life, to protect myself and my freedom. It's very liberating to have my own back and not allow someone who's never truly cared about me

Starting point is 01:06:14 to use me. Wow. Ah! I love this. It's so true that most things are just simply not as hard as we make them out to be in our imagination. Totally. That's not always the case.

Starting point is 01:06:29 Some things we are very surprised. Sneak attacks. They surprise us and we're caught off guard. But yeah, the things that we worry about that we're like, oh, we put off and we're worried. It's going to be hard and difficult and scary and maybe all those things, but manageable. And sometimes it's just simply doing something you know like here she was worrying and worrying and worrying and she had she hadn't even spoken to an expert a lawyer you know a free consultation even if it wasn't free maybe she had to pay 200 bucks to get some legal advice but but she got it. And that opened up everything for her.

Starting point is 01:07:06 I mentioned this earlier before, but it had nothing to do with relationships. It was about business, but it was a TikTok about a tech guy saying the best advice he got was action is information. That the worst thing he could do is sit there and ponder all these potential outcomes and solutions. And instead of, you know, wasting all this time and doing analysis by paralysis or paralysis by analysis or whatever, he was like, you know what, let's just fucking do it. See if it works. If it doesn't, we'll, we'll respond, you know, but he got the information through failure. You know, it was like, I'm not going to sit around

Starting point is 01:07:45 and then you know debate all the 20 different scenarios and then narrow it down to 10 options and narrow it down to five and then narrow it down to two and get one perfect solution and then hope it works before he did all that he was like oh let's just fucking do this maybe we'll get lucky and if not we'll fucking we'll have information so her immediately doing something provided her new information and that information changed her entire perspective but all she had to do was just start the scary process of being actionable and not worrying and and dreading it and things like that but i also think that sentiment of action being so much more important than analysis applies so much to dating where it feels like people because dating is so hard and daunting and

Starting point is 01:08:31 confusing nowadays, it feels like people are trying to like constantly be doing all the math to like save themselves any form of like rejection or disappointment as opposed to kind of like engaging with the person who they're talking to or the person they've been seeing or whoever else more like i feel like there's just this kind of like epidemic of like passive analysis that causes people to make choices based off of like the situation that has been altered and morphed in their own brain as opposed to the situation that happens between the two yeah it's all why people will like don't get into relationships because they're too afraid to define it or too afraid to shoot their shot

Starting point is 01:09:07 or they're in a situationship and they're like, well, I like them, they're great, but I don't know, what if I meet someone? Okay, fine, you can make a decision then, but make a decision now and then go with it. We've become too risk averse and there's a million reasons why, but action is information. Action is information misinformation i love that yeah what a great update yeah yeah

Starting point is 01:09:32 wonder if he'll ever apply though who cares true yeah but i'm curious eventually probably but like him not replying i think it was a product of him being, he was, it was a game of chicken, right? Up until that point, she wasn't actionable. She would complain, she would plead, she would beg, and he just kept ignoring her. Knowing that up until that point, she never really did anything about it. And he called her bluff and she stepped up. Yeah. And we're proud of her.

Starting point is 01:10:02 Good for her. Good for her. Wonderful. Yeah. All right, let of her. Good for her. Good for her. Wonderful. Yeah. All right. Let's get to our next caller. Hold on to your kilts, dearies. Peacock original The Traitors is back with a new season of strategy, betrayal, sabotage, and murder. This

Starting point is 01:10:17 killer season features an all-new celebrity cast that Vulture hailed as reality royalty living in a Scottish castle for the ultimate murder mystery competition we're talking fierce competitors reality stars in public figures battling it out for a whopping cash prize this season's cutthroat missions are next level just like whatever alan cumming pulls out of his brilliantly eccentric wardrobe one thing is for sure these 21 players will do anything to avoid a plot in Allen's graveyard.

Starting point is 01:10:49 Find out why critics and audiences alike are raving about the Emmy award-winning series. The New York Times is calling it a murder mystery with clothes to die for, and Vox adding that it should be your new reality TV obsession. We are certainly obsessed. Stream every episode of Traders Now only on Peacock. Ladies and gentlemen. What are you doing? What do you mean?

Starting point is 01:11:07 I'm making it simple. I'm making the promo. Just keep it simple. Just say, hey, we're the brav bros. Two guys that talk about Bravo. Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, we're the brav bros. No.

Starting point is 01:11:18 Oh. Dude, stop with the voice. Just keep it simple. I've seen promos on TV, dude. This is how you get the fans engaged. This is how you get listeners're trying to get listeners here if we just say oh we're two dudes that talk about bravo people are gonna get tired of it already we need some oomph all right then fine let's try to do it with your voice brav bros good job welcome back liz hello how's it going it's going great how are you good so we've talked twice so the

Starting point is 01:11:47 first time we talked to you your big problem was uh blowjobs were ending your dates and yeah you were basically going on dates sucking some dick and uh to put it delicately to put it delicately and and feeling uncared for. You were basically doing a lot of giving, not giving a lot of receiving. And we had, it was one of my favorite calls because it was a very, you know, 2023 modern dating topical. And we discussed the importance of setting upfront expectations when it comes to hookup culture and the awkwardness, sure, that can come into it, but the importance of doing it and making sure if you're going to participate in hookup culture,

Starting point is 01:12:29 it is literally all about the sex. It's only should be done if you yourself want to have sex and get pleasure and you're only doing it for that because you're not doing it to get someone to like you and you're not doing it to make them feel good about themselves that's their problem and that's their concern your job is to be respectful and make sure you get yours and so we had a very honest conversation about that the first time you gave us an update that you experienced some positive change in terms of how that all went down. Let's play another clip to bring us up to speed. Welcome back, Liz. How's it going? It's going great. How are you? Doing well. Glad to be talking with you again. Why don't you just kind of summarize why you called in, what we said, what'd you do with that information? Where are we now? So recently, I had gone on this third date that was essentially ended by giving,

Starting point is 01:13:33 like you said, the evil blowjob. The blowjobs are ruining your dates. Yeah. Yeah. Right. And it had happened 3 times. And I was just feeling very confused. And I think the cusp of the advice that you gave me was that if I'm going to engage in hookup culture, just in general, that I need to take responsibility for the role that I have been playing and putting myself in these situations. that I have been playing and putting myself in these situations and not to expect these men who are essentially strangers to, I guess, put in as much effort as I've been putting in. And that because I really don't know these people, I am just falling into this pattern and I don't want to do that anymore. So since talking to you, I think I've been much more intentional about whom I like give my time to and not putting myself in those situations with these people that I don't know. And it's been really helpful. It's been good. It's awesome. It's great to hear. Yeah. I mean, it's tough because it's not like we're not trying to let, you know, in your case, men off the hook, right?

Starting point is 01:14:48 And we're not saying that for anyone who participates in hookup culture that they shouldn't be respectful and courteous and acknowledge that you are putting yourself and whoever you are participating with in a kind of vulnerable situation. with in a kind of vulnerable situation. But that's like a utopian world to expect everyone to act that way. And so, yeah, it's tough to count on strangers to take care of you emotionally. And I know we talked about, hey, if you're going to participate in hookup culture, be upfront with what you expect to get and have your needs met. Have you ever gotten to that situation yet? Yeah, totally. So the night of the call that I had with you guys, I actually had a first hinge date.

Starting point is 01:15:33 He, first of all, was 40 minutes late. I would have left, but I had gone out of my way. He said he fell asleep and we were meeting at 8.30. He put his non-alcoholic but very expensive drink on my tab and then refused to pay me for weeks. And then he also told me this crazy story about how he was still in really close contact with his most recent situationship, which I know is a big no on this show. And he found out that this girl was also secretly sleeping with his roommate. It was very weird. It was this crazy date. And I was just sitting there with this internal monologue like,

Starting point is 01:16:10 Where am I? What am I doing? And then he said, There's this really great bar, a 5-minute drive away. Do you want to grab a second drink? And I panicked and was like, Sure. And I went to my car and I thought, I don't want to do that. And I heard Ali's voice in my head say, like the awkwardness of saying no in the moment. It's so much better than the regret the next day. Yeah. Yes, exactly. Yeah. I heard that. So I called him from my car and I said, you know, I just checked my emails and I said, you know, I, I just checked my, my emails and I totally forgot that I scheduled a really early doctor's appointment tomorrow. So I'm going to go home, but have a good night. That's awesome. Great. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:16:55 And maybe in the past you might've gone and get that second drink and then he would have propositioned you to come home with him or vice versa. And you know, you might've had to suck a dick. you didn't want to suck. No. Yeah, maybe. Exactly. But yeah. Well, good for you. Yeah. And I'm assuming that felt a little empowering. Yeah. Afterwards, I was like, wow, I'm a superhero. That felt great. No, good for you. I did what I want to do. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:17:25 That's awesome. I think you're a great example of just what hookup culture and dating culture has turned us into, where sex has become this kind of expected part of just a basic date kind of situation. And the obligation of the feelings of obligations that come with it, that's a horrible feeling. But good for you for changing course. There's going to be plenty of bad dates out there. So they don't all deserve a blowjob. Exactly. Yeah. More recently, I'm not saying this gentleman anymore, but I saw this guy for about a month and it just gave me hope because I was very excited for the time being.

Starting point is 01:18:09 And for the first several dates, it was simply like getting drinks. On the first date, we didn't so much as touch. And I was very intentional about it. And I think that that was very helpful. Just everything that we had talked about and going into it knowing these are my boundaries. I'm not crossing them. Well, good for you. This is great to hear. Hopefully, more of the same going forward. And if you are lucky enough to meet someone you start really bonding with, yeah, there's no downside to building that rapport or building that emotional connection.

Starting point is 01:18:42 And if you can abst you know, abstain, I think everyone, especially if they like someone, is doing themselves a favor. And, you know, if you give in to the moment, you give in to the moment. But I think there's very little downside to waiting things out longer than we're used to these days. I agree.

Starting point is 01:19:00 Awesome. Well, we appreciate the update. Keep us posted on your new dating journey. I think really stories like this are very helpful to people who listen. Totally. I will. Awesome. All right. Well, take care. Thank you again. And we'll talk soon. Okay. Thank you, Nick. All right. Bye-bye.

Starting point is 01:19:17 Bye. Thanks, guys. Bye. So I guess where are we now? Yeah, absolutely. I told you last time, even that night, the first new date that I had, I cut things off early. He has to go to a second bar. And I initially said yes and then changed my mind. So I have been keeping that same mindset ever since. same mindset ever since um and just taking things i think a lot slower and making sure that i am prioritizing myself rather than these strangers yeah and focusing on do they like me what can i

Starting point is 01:20:00 do for them and i'm thinking if they aren't approaching me with the same mindset, that that's on them rather than realizing that, no, it is on me as well. So I have been dating someone new for the past month or so, and I've been taking that very slowly and going very well so far. So what I'd love to know is how did that relationship start and evolve? Because did you approach it differently than other dates you had gone on in the past, specifically around sex and hooking up? Like how, how did that play out?

Starting point is 01:20:37 Yeah. Yes. And no, um, the first time that we, I guess our first quote unquote datequote date was a facetime date okay um which i haven't done since gobed and part of that is also because he lives about an hour away and he goes back and forth between where i live in between where he lives most of the time so i

Starting point is 01:20:58 think having that distance um is honestly kind of nice because it takes the pressure off of like, Oh, you know, like he's just around all the time. And it kind of makes the times that we are in person with one another. Yeah. So the first time that we met in person was very much planning to, you know, just get drinks and then send him on his merry way, the hour or so drive home. Um, it did escalate, which I was not expecting. And we did end up hooking up that first time, which I was like, I haven't done this since that

Starting point is 01:21:41 call. Uh, part of that also, I think was because,, was because it did get late and it was a farther commute home. That being said, I really wanted to. He clearly did too. This really has nothing to do with that, but I think he did unintentionally get very vulnerable that first time, which kind of like set the stage for being a little bit more vulnerable with one another, because he, at one point I had to go in my bathroom and throw up. He's like in there naked, throwing up very first time he's over, he had just gotten over COVID, which was part of it. But that, I think that first time just like set the stage for a really interesting dynamic um and then i ended up being pretty sick for a little while after that and

Starting point is 01:22:33 you know so we've seen each other um at physical lows do you feel like those vulnerabilities made it easier for you guys to communicate about awkward things? Yeah, weirdly. Yeah, it makes sense. Yeah, totally. I guess technically an icebreaker. Throwing up. Throwing up naked in someone else's bathroom.

Starting point is 01:22:53 Unfortunately, yeah. Truly. Yeah, but like two days later I got strep throat and he like brought me soup. It makes sense, right? Because here you are naked in a stranger's bathroom puking and what's going through your head is the fear of judgment right what is this person going to think of me only for them to come out and not feel judged by you right and so that not judgment and uh from a in a place of vulnerability is basically says oh i can be vulnerable with this person and not feel judged

Starting point is 01:23:26 how wonderful yeah like and we all look for that men and women so you know it makes sense yeah he was clearly really embarrassed and he kept saying so and i was like i don't think that's embarrassing i really don't like it's a very normal body thing to happen it It just sucks that you feel bad. So hopefully, you know, I think he did not feel judged. Is he a generous lover? Yes, very much so. I also got back in therapy pretty soon after the first call with you and something my therapist recommended. She's, she's very much, she's also a sex therapist. So she's very much like, you know, get yours. A lot of the advice that you gave me too, but she told me to read this book called She Comes First,

Starting point is 01:24:11 which is written for men, really. But man, women can get something out of reading it too. Well, yeah, I mean, I get what you're saying that it's written for men because it's like, hey guys, by the way, this is where you're missing the mark, but it makes sense, especially from your point of view. And I would imagine a lot of other women could benefit from it because again, you called in the first time being like, I'm sucking all this dick and like, what's the problem? You know, I mean, you just to put it not so delicately, but you weren't prioritizing yourself and what you wanted. And you thought is if I just give, give, give, give, give, it will just naturally come back. And you needed to expect and put it out there and prioritize what you need and communicate what you need and hold those other people accountable. And this book sounds like,

Starting point is 01:25:00 maybe for you at least, it gave you permission or reinforced the idea that it is okay to have expectations. Yeah. Because I do think a lot of, you know, society and, you know, it's a lot of people out there who, for whatever reason, society made you feel like it wasn't okay to expect these things or it was too awkward or weird and uncomfy. So, yeah, good for you yeah exactly so i think that that's part of it too is just i guess like restraining um or not or just like not feeling like i have to be so giving immediately and kind of making sure that it's like no like i'm getting something before it even goes there. But yes, he is very generous. I did intentionally leave the book out for him to see so that

Starting point is 01:25:52 we could have that conversation too. How about you just say, because, or, or, or, or, or, or, maybe just be direct. You could just say, hey, I read this really interesting book about sex and women and dating, and I read it for me. But if you're interested, I'm not a big reader, so maybe he's not, but you could literally ask him to read it. You could say, I'm curious what you think about this. Just because it really helped me. And like, I just, I,

Starting point is 01:26:28 I think this would help us continue to be on the same page. You know, like, I guess what all I'm saying is you don't have to leave it out for him and hope that he reads it, you know? Cause like, I've never seen a book and said, I should read this.

Starting point is 01:26:40 Not because I wasn't interested in its content, just because, you know, I, I'm not a good reader, you know, I'm dyslexic or content, just because, you know, I, I'm not a good reader, you know, I'm dyslexic or whatever, but I just,

Starting point is 01:26:49 if, if someone I cared about asked me to, I could at least read a chapter or page, you know what I'm saying? Like just, yeah, it's okay for you to ask him to read it. It's okay for you to ask him to take a look.

Starting point is 01:26:59 Maybe start with a chapter. I'd love to talk with you about this, you know, book club it. All I'm saying is you can be a little bit more direct than just leaving it out and hoping that he reads it. Totally. Yeah. And be consistent with that. Be consistent with this is a relationship that started with us

Starting point is 01:27:16 being vulnerable and being open and honest and not let awkwardness stop us from being direct and communicate. So stay that course and just say that you'd love for him to read it. And you're just saying, I'm not asking you to read it just because you're doing it. This is not like a, I'm not trying to teach you anything. I thought this was really interesting, and I read it right before I met you, and honestly, I think it's a big part of the reason why i'm feel the way i do about you you know make it like a positive

Starting point is 01:27:50 thing not like a hey you know giving you notes like i'm giving you a self-help book i know i think that's the yeah that's the worry yeah like you're not doing it make that very clear you know but to say it's just i i i'm always looking for ways for you to for us to be on the same page and to you know get to know each other a little bit better and i'm just curious if like if you want to page through it like this is you know and again make him feel confident about himself and reassure him that this is not like you know how to stop being annoying and give him that book you know right my brother bought me a book called how to apologize oh my god yeah and how did you feel when you received i didn't

Starting point is 01:28:33 read it did you apologize i thought i did um but yeah i mean you know what i'm saying though yes yeah it's not that you know yeah well this is great congratulations on love thank you well keep taking it slow yeah yeah yeah it's hard to you know like yeah it's be excited perhaps too long take it slow you have a lot to learn about each other but i think the positive thing here is you you made immediate changes in your life and quickly noticed changes. You're not here saying, I found the love of my life and who knows, two weeks from now you might call us back up and be like, I learned something crazy about him.

Starting point is 01:29:16 And now you might literally say, I learned that he parks in two parking spots at the same time. And you might immediately get the ick. You never know. But the point is that you made some changes, and those changes changed your reality and your environment, and you controlled your destiny, not the other way around. Yeah. Because it wasn't just about making those sexual changes, too.

Starting point is 01:29:44 That really translates to everything else. And this is also... It feels like the first time, even just at this stage, dating someone that I don't feel that giddiness, which is really just anxiety and those feelings of obsession coming in. It really just feels like I am in the driver's seat and i do have agency here because before it feels so much like it really is just like when's he gonna text me when is he gonna reach out how is he feeling and have no having no idea it's like i sucked his dick why isn't he calling you know but like again but like exactly i do feel like there is a false narrative out there where i think there's a lot of women who think

Starting point is 01:30:25 well if I make him happy sexually then you know I'll get what I want from him and men don't fall in love that way they just get off that way they fall in love from missing you

Starting point is 01:30:41 right yeah well this is what a great update thank you for the call. Of course. Thanks for having me back. You took charge of your life and look what happened. I'm trying. You're doing great.

Starting point is 01:30:51 Thanks for the advice. Well, thanks for listening and good luck on this relationship. Thank you. Have some fun. Fingers crossed. Who knows? Who knows?

Starting point is 01:31:02 But it's a good start. Who knows? It's not a coincidence that you met someone that you like and likes you back because you made some obvious changes yeah all right well thanks

Starting point is 01:31:15 for the update thanks guys all right good luck take care bye thanks for listening hope you enjoy those updates as always if you're thirsting for more updates, we have, I think, 15 additional update special episodes behind Vile Files Plus. So be sure to go to vilefiles.com.

Starting point is 01:31:35 There's a tab right there to sign up for Vile Files Plus. It's free to sign up, so you can probably, you know, listen to a bunch of episodes for free. Got to check it out. As always, thanks for listening. we'll see you back on Monday

The Viall Files - E659 Ask Nick Updates Special Episode - Part 13

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