The Viall Files - E66 Open Relationships with Kelsey Darragh

Episode Date: December 4, 2019

Today Kelsey Darragh of the Confidently Insecure Podcast joins us to talk about open relationships. She shares how she introduces a third person to her boyfriend, her secret to going from FWB to a relationship, and how she posted too many butt photos. Would you watch Nick and Kelsey perform a scene from Closer? Be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode!  THANKS TO OUR SPONSORS: NOEMIE: https://www.hellonoemie.com/viall CODE: VIALL SHIPSTATION: https://www.shipstation.com CODE: VIALL MANSCAPED: https://www.manscaped.com CODE: VIALL ETTITUDE: Text FILES to 64-000 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What is going on everybody? Welcome to another episode of Vile Files. I hope you all had a very wonderful Thanksgiving and holidays. I'm excited about this episode. Kelsey Dara. I'm excited about this episode. Kelsey Dara. I met Kelsey not too long ago. We were in acting class together. And she was like, I got a podcast. And I was like, I got a podcast.

And we talked about podcasts. And then I was on hers. You guys should go check it out. And then she told me how she's in an open relationship with her boyfriend. And I was like, oh, my God. We've been like, Rochelle's obsessed with open relationships. I'm super. No, I'm not.

You're curious about it as am I. We talk about it a lot. It's a fascinating thing. Are you not? I just could never, ever, ever do it. And it's fascinating. And so I'm like, you have to come on. It comes up more often than not.

I learned a lot. It's just fascinating. And I think as society goes, relationships are becoming more and more untraditional. And it's just a fun insight into people who choose to have an untraditional relationship. Have you been paying attention to this Peloton commercial thing that went viral?

Yeah, it's really funny. It's fascinating. I don't know. Good job on them because I, I, I'm kind of fascinated by the whole thing as, again,

as a small business owner who is coming up with marketing and talking to people, it was fascinating because I'm sure Peloton is certainly a much larger business than Natural Habits. They had a whole marketing team that came up with this. They shot it. They hired actors. Yeah. And then all of a sudden, just viral, a lot of negative criticism. At the same time time it's getting

a ton of traction exactly and it's like press is good press but yeah i don't but like i i watched it after i heard there was a and i like i get where the criticism's coming from but also like like clearly they weren't trying to you know what i'm saying like they weren't trying to what well this whole idea which is like don't be the asshole who's buying your girlfriend or wife like an exercising bike or a blender or a vacuum cleaner or a... Right. Right? Yes, we all know better now.

It comes across as very... Well, it's different than like the vacuum cleaner or blender. I don't think it was that, all that. Like that was part of it, but also it was just bizarre she was like I'm nervous to like try it and then she made a video of it to show him I don't know no I listen I was just bizarre I get all the criticism I do but it's like it's an exercising bike from a company that selling an exercising equipment for the holidays yeah so like of course they're you know what I'm saying it's an exercising bike what's what are

you trying to say no it's just more like uh it would be like if like i would it seemed like it got criticism for like being a commercial about like being the best boyfriend ever and he got her an exercising bike and he was like see be a great boyfriend get your girlfriend an exercising bike it's a company trying to sell an exercising bike. So of course the gift is the exercising bike. It's for Christmas. It's for the holidays. The idea of like right now for natural habits, it's most of the year we're like, get yourself this for yourself. And for the Christmas time, we're like, this would make a great gift. So it's kind of like, what are they supposed to do? I know. Yeah.

I don't know. It's just, it really blew up.. So it's kind of like, you know, what are they supposed to do? I know, yeah. I don't know. It's just, it really blew up. I've really enjoyed some of like the remakes of like inserting words. It's kind of almost like, you know,

when we did the bad chiller for the bachelor, like what people really mean. But like I am, so I'm curious, you think- Would you buy a woman an exercise thing?

Like I wouldn't buy a girlfriend, but if I were in a marriage and she said, I want to like get in shape and we went shopping and she was like, oh, that Peloton looks cool. Yeah. Like, sure. Yeah. I think my mom wants one.

I think she wouldn't be mad if she got it for me. That's what I'm saying. I think it got a little overblown. We're like in a situation where like, if the person asks for it. I think people were't be mad if she got it for Christmas. That's what I'm saying. I think it got a little overblown. We're like in a situation where like if the person asks for it. I think people were just having fun. I was curious. So no one's really mad at Peloton? No, no one's mad.

Everyone's just making fun. So then that's a good thing for them. Yeah. Because it's gotten a ton of traction. I enjoyed it. There is a tweet out there about, yeah, I get why people are upset about the peloton but i'm still blown away by and this is true people buying thirty thousand dollar cars without even running it by their wife or husband there is one commercial where the husband or husband presents his wife with two cars in the front yard and she's like

it's she picks the wrong one i'm like what reality are these people living in i've been growing up in a in a family with like parents just trying to make ends meet we're like if you ever did that i would kill you you know like with a bow on top hey we're poor now like this isn't even the car i wanted it's it's it's wild but i don't know i was curious uh i think it's just kind of funny what the internet makes a big deal about these days. It really blew up. Yeah. But I wasn't sure.

I guess it's good to know that it's all in good fun because you can't tell when people get really mad if you need to respond. Anyways, I hope you enjoyed this episode. I know I did.

Kelsey gives some really great insight on traditional relationships and we learned a lot. Hope you enjoy. episode i know i did it's uh kelsey gives some really great insight on um uh untraditional relationships and uh we learned a lot i hope you enjoy hi kelsey daddy thanks for coming on hi nick vial okay what four times i that's correct that was correct i don't want to talk about it. Wow. Grumpy. Thanks for coming on. You are the perfect guest because- That's the first time I've heard you compliment me. Oh, interesting. We haven't known each other for that long.

So she says it as if we've been friends forever. He meets me and immediately insults me. That's not true. How did i immediately you like first of all actually i complimented you on your floors which you took as an insult no you said it weird you gave me a backhanded compliment this is he struggles with this no i do it on purpose why why why do you want to confuse people when you meet them first of all we had known each other for 20 30 minutes and i was like exactly so i was like coming i was like huh concrete floors

those are really nice you did not say those are really nice i definitely did here's what i've learned about nick in like the three days we've hung out. He is very scattered brained. Like you definitely have ADHD. Like are you diagnosed? Sure. By me. Or you. Do you take Adderall?

No. Okay. I have a lot of experience with Adderall. I don't want to medicate. You. Okay. Well, do you meditate? I should. You, okay, well, do you meditate? I should.

You fucking should. Yeah. Because you are, you're like a cat when it has the zoomies, but just all the time. Not all the time, but just when I'm with you. Can you confirm?

Yeah. I'm always a scatterbrain? No, I don't think scatterbrain, but you live in your head. Mm, scary. Sure. Yeah. Well, that's true.

You will admit that. Yeah. Wait, but I live in your head. Scary. Sure. Yeah. Well, that's true. You will admit that. Yeah. Wait, but I want everyone to know how you guys know each other. We are in the same acting class. Yay. Lots of celebs in our acting class. Wow. Are there?

I mean, reality stars, I should say. A lot of wannabes. Hey. No. Trying to bees. A lot of tryingabes hey no uh trying to be a lot of trying to be yeah we uh we're in the same acting class together and uh we uh our our teacher sam who used to help with the podcast she is uh um she paired us up for a scene a very tough scene a tough tough one. What was it? It was a period. It was a scene out of the- Closer.

Closer. The movie, but it's all- That's not a period piece. Well, the way they speak, you would think it was 1840. That's not true. They speak weird in that. They do, because they're English. It's a very strange scene.

That's a great play. It was- And movie. And movie. Was it a sexy scene? It was. It wasn't. It was a movie. And movie. Was it a sexy scene? It was a fight. It should have been. They're like, they're, they're cucking each other.

Or my character was cucking him. She kept trying to get closer and I kept trying to move away. Yeah. And like, actually too, as actors, I would try and get like physically close and I would notice how comfortable, uncomfortable he was with like stranger closeness. I like to warm up when I'm first, I wasn't ready to get into it. He likes to have the power.

Oh. And I think me coming in hot was just. I learned about Kelsey when I met her. She really likes to tell me about me, which is interesting, because I like doing the same thing. It like the immovable force moves meets the uh or just smack in the middle yeah um why do you think you're like that why do you think you're like that i'm curious i'm a genuinely curious person like i really do like to know about people

i think i really threw you off when i met you because i i blew your mind with a lot of surprises first of all assumptive you blew my mind okay with a lot of surprises what oh that you were like not you were surprised about my age you were surprised i was an essential oil company oh my god uh you had no idea i was on reality tv you were surprised about that oh my god God. That's three big surprises. Well, I found these things out very slowly too. Like, how old do you think he is? I mean, I just know. She just knows.

I just can't believe it. But now that I know you, I'm like, oh, you're bitter. You're a little bitter. I'm bitter? Yeah, like you've got spice to your life. Sure. Yeah. Why is cynicism equated to bitterness?

Or even perspective equated to cynicism is equated to bitterness. Which is funny because I think the majority of the world is pretty cynical these days, but we pretend we're supposed to be happy. Yeah, we lie to ourselves. It's more like, I'm not bitter about it. I'm just like, this is how it is. And it's fine.

Would you say you're a pessimist? No. I think I'm a cynic. I think I like to see the world as it is. And then I think that in itself is fine. I think nothing bothers me more than when people talk about like, I would never have a kid in today's society or. Why?

No, I don't say that. But people all the time, there's never been a period in time where people will be like, oh, the times I would never. This is literally the best time to ever have lived. This is like the best. You know, you're right. The world's always been shitty. It's just now we have more social media.

Medieval times. Oh, I love medieval times. You know, obviously the right. Compared to what? The world's always been shitty. It's just now we have more social media. Medieval times. Oh, I love medieval times. You know, obviously the political landscape is controversial, but it's been before, it will be again. Here's the thing. Anyways, so I don't think I'm a pessimist in that regard. Have you been to medieval times as an adult? It's very fun.

You haven't? I'm shocked. That's a fun date place to go. Oh. Is there one in LA? It's about an hour outside. It's kind of by Not Scary Farms is the closest one,

I think. But I went for my 27th birthday and we got a party bus and we loaded 30 drunk adults and watched a medieval. How many Jim Carrey cable guy impressions were going down that day? What a random question. How many Jim Carrey cable guy impressions were going down that day? What a random question.

Great movie. None? Silence of the Lambs. When he puts the bacon on his face. Why would that happen? Yeah, why? Because my only knowledge of medieval times is that scene out of the movie Cable Guy

where they go to medieval times. I've never seen it. And this is showing your age. I guess. Oh, no. I started making him angry. See, no, that's the thing. I will say.

You have resting bitch voice. I always do. In face. And people, I've been told I'm hard to figure out. So people then will try to, they'll fill in the gaps. I don't think you're hard to figure out. I think you're pretty forward about it. I would say that too,

but people often give me different information. Because that makes me sound sexy. That makes me sound mysterious. I don't say this. No, I know. Did you hear the voice I put on? Yeah. I'm an actor.

Okay, we met an actor. I'm being one of the, we met an actor. Does that mean that- I'm being one of the girls that probably call you. Enough about me. Oh, boy. I forgot. We're doing my podcast later. I'll save all of it.

Yeah, save it. We brought Kelsey on after getting to know each other and shooting this show a little bit. That Kelsey not only has a hit podcast and a show that she talks about dating and she's a comedian and actor and very outspoken and opinionated and judgmental. She is also in an open relationship. Correct. And we have talked about open relationships on the show

with much fascination and we've had people call in and show their interest in an open relationship and here we have first hand a vet, a veteran in the open relationship and I have so many questions as I'm sure

people listening at home do off the bat, how do you define an open relationship? It's different for every person. I don't think there's one clear definition. The way our society rolls these days is that we don't really like labels, right? Like we like the fluidity, we like the, we like not being labeled.

So I can't say that I am the person that can speak for all open, hey, there's a picture of us. We like not being labeled. So I can't say that I am the person that can speak for all open. Hey, there's a picture of us. I can't speak for all open relationships. But in my personal open relationship, we define it as the ability to have relations with other people, knowing that our foundation is sturdy and our relationship is number uno. When you say relations, are we talking sex? Are we talking all different types of variables in a relationship?

All different kinds of types of variables in relationships. Sometimes we date together, sometimes we'll go on dates separate. Dates together? Yeah, that's really fun. That's our- Like you'll both go on a date with the same person at the same time. Or.

Same table? Yeah. But it's not like a get together. It's a date. Like I have gone out to dinner with friends who are dating and I'm just like at the dinner with my two friends. No, no, no. It's all. We're very upfront about it.

We don't hide it. It's not like some sexy secret we're up front so if we're taking someone out on a date and we're doing it together it's very clear that this is a date another thing i'll do is i'll go kind of vet the person first because i'm definitely the captain who like runs this relationship i definitely want it more than my partner um i i Right? And so I'll go out with, let's say, the chick first and we'll have drinks

and I'll kind of gauge the temperature of the sitch and if I think it's going well, I'll say like, oh, do you mind if my boyfriend swings by?

And then it's all, you know, 99 times out of 100, a yes. And then he'll show up and kind of tail end it. You're getting her for him or for you

or for both or for both usually both oh usually i'm never like that not for me but i'm on my boyfriend all right he has to do his own dirty work i feel like i have to backtrack a little bit is this your first open relationship yes i was never someone that thought i would ever be in an open relationship what changed the person every relationship i was in before him was not the right one. I never had the confidence as maybe like a 20-year-old or 20-something-year-old. I think I was too immature. The other person was too immature. Our morals didn't align. But were you looking for the possibility and then you found him and felt comfortable with doing it?

Or were you not even looking for it and through meeting him discovered this lifestyle? So I identify as bisexual or pansexual, whatever people politically correct want to get with. So for me, when I am single, it's really fun because I think it's like the best way to be, right? Like it's coming at me from all sides all the time. So what was successful, I think,

about Jared and I getting into a relationship is that we started off as friends with benefits. We were both like, we're not really trying to get into a relationship. We're neighbors. And so it was really easy. And so he saw my lifestyle as a bisexual. I saw his lifestyle as a traveling DJ.

And I was like, oh, we we both fuck so we're not there was no like surprises we knew that we were sleeping with other people when we met which i think kind of helped lead it into that makes a lot of sense yeah i don't know if we would we may have gotten there if we were in a traditional monogamous relationship to start but there's nothing about our relationship that started traditional. That must've made it a lot easier to transition because like in a normal, you say traditional dating relationship, people go into that with so many like built in expectations of what they want

this relationship to be and what, how they see the person. And then if they were to find out, like they were say into some weird shit, so to speak, they would be like, Oh, well I guess you're not who I thought you were.

And don't get me wrong, we've like discovered kinks along the way, like with this lifestyle comes a lot of like the kink world. So we do still find out. You got a running start. Yeah, we got a running start. And yeah, it wasn't like, there was nothing we couldn't talk about together.

Like because we were hanging out as sort of like I say bros, you know, with air quotes. But, you know, a hot person would walk by and he would be like looking at her and I would also be looking at her. So it's not that weird when we're both checking out the same person because I think a lot of relationships fail because of insecurity and jealousy and lies. Right. Like that, I would say are the top three reasons why relationships end. And when you kind of cut all that shit out, it's the best relationship I've ever been in in my fucking life. And the healthiest. What attracted you to him in the first place?

He's tall. He's 6'4". He was a dj then uh yeah is he still a dj he's slowed down a little bit he started a startup a tech company last year and has been kind of putting all of his focus on that but he was a pretty successful dj like pre-social media so right out of college and he's been internationally traveling for the last 10 years and I mean like the lifestyle of a DJ is fucking gross like not for me not for me so it'd be like hey you want to go out to the club and I'd be like I would literally rather do anything else and I think that was appealing for him to for me because he's used to sleeping with club hoes not anything against them we all know what they are I was one of them back in my day a wonderful

group of people yeah we love them fun to party with but let's be real if that's what you're sticking your dick in for 10 years I think the idea of like being in bed at 9 30 doing missionary was probably really relieving for this person I'm assuming I don't want to speak for him but you know like yeah how many times you're playing you're djing till three in the morning you've been drinking whiskey all night then you gotta go to a fucking after party it's five in the morning you're in some fucking hotel room it's like you don't even remember the person's name you maybe no one comes because it's the sun's coming up like that's just not fulfilling sex not that i'm trying to learn about djs but if you are if you are a dj are you like required to go to all the social events couldn't you just play your set and be like i'm going home he got to a place where he could show

up five minutes before play and then leave right after but for a lot of years when he was building up his brand and his name he you have to schmooze with the club owner they everyone wants to hang out with the dj everyone wants to fuck the dj and everyone wants to hang out with the dj and it didn't help that he's very good looking um know about dj you don't want to fuck my boyfriend he seems handsome he is would you ever uh i'm not into guys that way haven't we talked about this before? And I said, how do you know? I just, well, we've talked about a little bit where like I'm very comfortable with my sexuality

and I have a lot of gay friends and we joke around and my good friend, Brian Goreski, like we've talked about how kind of our openness and our playfulness with each other, but like there's a comfort level I have where I'm not insecure. I'm just really not sexually into god there's just nothing there for me um do you believe people can be a hundred percent straight uh or do you maybe have queer tendencies like do you watch gay porn no there's nothing about not even even once? If we're getting into porn, I'm not into porn where it's just two women.

That's fine. In the sense that like. Why would it be? I think there's a visual, like there's an imaginary. How would you know what it feels like? Well, it's just like, if you're watching,

it's like, well, I can't visualize myself in this environment. I have no idea what this feels like. That totally makes sense. But other than that, like I don't, yeah, I mean, I've never really thought about it. I just know that I've never thought about it. what this feels like that totally makes sense uh but other than that like i don't yeah i mean i've never really thought about it i just know that i've i've never thought about it i've never

been into it and i would be fine to admit it if i if i was do you think like i think something negative about my personality is that i there's very few things but if i had to pick one it's my like need for adventurousness and stories and like i like having a a rolodex of like shit to throw out and be like ah yes i've done that one and so for me it was like there was a a point where i was questioning my sexuality like you know being like am i just someone that's trying to have sex with every type of person before i die like it was more about the adventure was it more about the adventure than the actual attraction totally and you know I came to realize like of course no but there was a part of me that's like

I've definitely slept with people I wouldn't normally just because of either what they brought to the table or you know that weird attraction where you like whoops then you have their dick in you but do you think you would ever for the adventurousness of it just to like do you want to die never have putting a dick in your mouth yeah yeah doesn't no that doesn't really you have one life yeah one well i mean interestingly enough talking about sex like how i've i guess selected my like partners or sexual experiences i'm very much the opposite of that i mean i'm not saying that i have every person i've ever had sex with has been like has been like oh i'd really they've been like uh you know but i've there's always been an initial you know like i've never i didn't i didn't follow uh again what I'm saying is like I've had a one night stand

before I've had I've had meaningless sex before for sure but in that moment I was always just very attracted

to the person and maybe there's certain the moments played a role but there was something about that person that I was very attracted

it was that person and that attraction it wasn't about just getting laid it wasn't about like wanting to just go home with somebody. And it wasn't because they were a status. It was a, it didn't matter who,

there was an attraction to that person. That's always been that way. It's always been quality over quantity in that sense. I just got misquoted deeply there. Amazing. Have you ever been a guy who, were you ever fucking four other guys and if you don't understand that no i don't a lot of men that i've talked to will say that like their sexual relationships started

off because they wanted to be able to go back to their guy friends be like oh i fucked sally from the cheerleading squad like do you feel like ever part of your life was like that i really mean i'm being honest when i say not i don't think so for the most part i mean i'm a guy so have i ever talked about a sexual endeavor with my other buddies and obviously if she's super hot like you know you certainly be like yeah i mean yeah we hooked up but i will say i mean especially recently in my life i've been far more private about my dating life um and even before you know how people will joke around about like guys will get nudes of girls whatever and they

have it in their rolodex and like so many guys show their buddies i was never one of those guys i don't think anyone should be friends with people that are doing thank you a lot of guys a lot of guys do that for that reason that you describe of saying you know i'm they're showing off like this is this hot chick and we had sex and check it out. I was always like the opposite where it was like, if you don't get to look at her, you're like, what did you do to be able to enjoy like this experience? Which is funny because like talking about an open relationship,

something Jared and I always talk about is that like, we had such a solid foundation and such strong, like sexual chemistry and emotional chemistry and mental chemistry that we were like, we want other people to experience this. What is interesting is the few people I know about open relationship is can kind of you said, like, one of the big things that drives relationships apart is the lying or mistrust or lack of communication. And clearly, if you're people in an open relationship, you have other problems. But certainly, there's no, for all the reasons people do lie sometimes, that seems to be

out the window. You probably tend to over communicate rather than under communicate because of the, yeah. And then what I've noticed people in open relationships and correct me if i'm wrong here you kind of get off on the overshare of the sexual experience so then you become really good at communicating i know i am i i know i do because again like i'm attracted to women so why wouldn't my boyfriend and someone that i also think is incredibly attractive you know if he's playing a show in new york and i can't be there like that's awesome to me that's if he like hooked up with a chick yeah i want to know every fucking you want to hear about it hell yeah for him it might be different like for him he might just want to know the bare bones

not all the detail you guys have like a set rules in terms of like, if you do hook up, you need to tell me, or do you guys need each other's permission before you do it? Or can you find out after the fact? It's different for every person. So again, like I don't even like to call them rules. I just like to call it showing up to the relationship. Like here's how I showed up to the relationship and respect you. But you've asked, you've explained to him how he can show up to the relationship and respect you and but you've asked you've explained to him

how he can show up to the relationship for you right and I've been like if you don't then that's not uh you're not breaking a rule but it's showing me your characters of how like who you are and and that amount of honesty brings zero reason to lie. Like very few people have the kink of lying to someone. Like it's not keeping things spicy to keep secrets from each other. That's not what makes

our relationship hot. But what makes, and then, so into the fact now that you, because you are attracted to women and men, you have the open relationship

and then you have this, is he, what about him? Is he fluid too? He, so I try not to have this is he what about him is he fluid too he so i try not to speak too much about this for him because he's not here but he grew up in a very traditionally conservative boston city like bro fucking patriots like yeah you know being taught gay marriage is wrong incorrect and so that was definitely something that worried me getting in to know him because living in la for 10 years i have a lot of queer friends i have a lot of uh was he judgmental no so that's what i was worried about i was like all of your

friends are straight bros you know there's like not a fuck ton of diversity in your friendship group so i was a little worried how he was going to be. So that was definitely something I kind of had like a red flag about for no reason. Because he is so open and so accepting. And I think that's rare. I think if you're going to get a straight male into an open relationship and you have the idea that you, you know, like if I wanted him to like have sex with a guy. What do you think he would? know he would interesting and i don't think that i would have thought he hasn't yet two years ago no but you know that if you were like i'm into this guy and i want you to like

have him suck you off he would let a guy suck him off yeah and what if he said he wasn't comfortable with that then we wouldn't do it i would never want you wouldn't like be you wouldn't call him no you wouldn't judge him i wouldn't be like you're homophobic okay no i think he has seen the community that i'm a part of and he is so open and like i said accepting that he could see why that might be something here and again that's why i asked like you want to go your whole life without ever saying like you never you never sucked a dick like i don't know he's so in the public eye it would be hard for him to do without a could you could i that's definitely not my reasoning also to to kelsey's point i there's probably a lot of people in the public eye

who have sucked plenty of dicks oh that's a good point that yes i know so many so many like celebrities traditional celebrities that have had so much pussy in their life that they are bored and are like i'm straight but i just want to you know i'm straight i say i've heard the story but i want to see what it's like to suck a dick i uh it just doesn't do anything for me yeah maybe i mean come on every time i'm getting my dick sucked i'm always like i don't i mean thank you this is great i don't get the fascination i just say i'm sorry this is something i learned from jared if a guy isn't saying thank you after you blow him leave him yes jared says thank you after every verbal i would agree i don't know if ever like said thank you for doing it but there's

always i need that no i need thank you well i mean i'm sure i have but i'm always in like i definitely check in like yeah yeah i good i show my appreciation i'm sure they're not there's not a ton of straight men listening to this live guys i don't know we're growing assuming you're dumb but for fuck's sake if you are say thank you show your yeah show your appreciation oh that's what i'm saying this is like i find it to be and so like off-putting for you guys women that i'm like that's what i'm saying it doesn't appeal to me because i'm always like i get it but putting as a guy who's not into dick i'm just like thank you because like it seems terrible like you know what i'm saying like it's samantha

jones said they don't call it a job for no reason. It is a lot of work. But for me, I've never been like, huh. That seems interesting. I deserve this. Yeah. Because I'm, you know, I enjoy oral sex. And the same, like, for the same reason, like, I, you know, when it's the other way around, I don't feel like if I'm giving oral sex that I'm, like,

taking one for the team i enjoy the experience and i think women should especially as i know women are listening to this you should enjoy giving oral sex if you don't don't fucking do it i think we think as women that's like let me break this down a little bit i started giving blow jobs because i was terrified of sex and what i realized about blow jobs is that it is so I've never seen a man more vulnerable in my fucking life. And it is so powerful. Like for me, I feel so in control. And that's why I like it. If you genuinely are fucking down there and you're terrified and you don't know what to do and you're like, is he liking this? And when am I doing it right ow my fucking jaw hurts stop i think we pretend to like giving blowjobs i did it for fucking 10 years fucking pretended to like giving blowjobs for 10 years i i agree i mean i've uh again as

the overthinker and ask questions i'm you know you talk about fake orgasms and stuff like that and when i'm dating someone i just really want to be like i want to find out what they really like or what they enjoy because i just i can't help but wonder are you actually this kinky or are you into this or are you just pretending because you know i am nine times out of ten the first time you're hooking up with them that's not what and i want to ask a lot of questions because I'm like, if you don't like it, tell me. Right. But not everyone is like you.

If you don't like this, you like that. Sure. Part of it is I find it's like a comfort level too. It's just like- Totally comfort level. I think a lot of, well, I don't want to assume, I have two women in front of me. When you were younger,

did you assume that all men hated giving oral sex? I did. I don't think I did. I felt very guilty. And I was like, you don't have to do this. Oh, don't. I will say I didn't get it for the first time until I was 17. That's after being sexually active for two years. And I remember I thought that was fucking weird.

You still don't know what you're doing there. The ticker of blowjobs to pussy eating is very off. I'm talking about early 20s where I feel like it's still like, you don't have to do that. You don't have to do that. Oh, well, I think that's because women are so self-conscious about their pussies, too. Yes. Like, they think it stinks. They think it's not supposed to taste good, which pussies do stink and they don't taste good.

But that's what a pussy is. You should be grateful to be around them. I feel like if you're keeping on top of things it's yeah but i'm sorry if you're wearing jeans all day and then you walk in the door and your man's like throws you up on the counter your pussy's not gonna taste normal uh fine it's gonna taste like jeans it's gonna taste like sweaty jeans i've never had that experience so i didn you know how many terrible smelling balls i've had to deal with an infinite number a little bit of hygiene goes a long way both on both sides of the field that's all i'm saying but all i'm saying is that like genital stink no matter what after a long day

that's the title of this episode genital stink that. That's what I'm saying. And most women are hooking up after a party. Babe, gotta wash my balls. It's fine. Yeah. After a party, you've been drinking, maybe you're sweaty, you're at the curb, and you're like, oh, do I excuse myself to go wipe my pussy with this one hand towel? Because men only seem to have one hand towel in their bathroom. On a good day.

That's what I'm saying. On a good day. I just think we should all just fucking shove their heads down there and make them deal with it uh yeah feminism you you started you were sexually active at a pretty young age oh i was the last one to lose my virginity i grew up in florida forget not much better shells from ari Arizona. Yeah. What part? Phoenix. Ah, dirty. Very dirty. So yeah,

we probably had similar experiences. No, we definitely did not. In Florida, you get it all out of the way. Michelle's neighbor maybe had the same experience. I forgot. Yeah, we're working on that. Yeah, Florida,

you just are, everything's different there. It's wild. And I was the last, I was lying about losing my virginity. I was like, I lost it at camp this summer. And people were like, no, you didn't. I was like, I was lying about losing my virginity I was like I lost it at camp this summer and people were like no you didn't I was like yes I did and then I was desperate to lose my

virginity that year because I was 15 I was the last person to lose it what yeah so not to be pessimistic uh no but you are sure I don't know like how serious like let's just for argument's sake this relationship doesn't last a test of time. Totally. Just for argument's sake. Yeah. You mentioned how obviously so much of this relationship is predicated on the fact that it was,

he made it easier and the communication. Let's do it again. And I know we actually talked about this a little bit at lunch, is that like, is being an open relationship a new non-negotiable for you? Yes. It is. Yeah. I think now that I've been there, I can't un-been there.

This is so great. This is when I have felt my most confident. This is where I felt my most honest. This is where I felt my most authentic to my sexuality that it is a non-negotiable for me but that's not to say that there haven't been times where jared and i have been like hey we're working on something we need to close this for a little while do you take that's good close it yeah time out oh you pause the openness oh if i'm pissed at him and he has a show in new york i'm like, this is closed. We are closed for business. Oh, you use it as a punishment.

Not as a punishment. I'm like, we need to work on us. That sounds like a punishment. Jared doesn't see it as a punishment. He doesn't see not having sex with other women as a punishment. He's grateful. No, I get that. But when you were like, I'm mad at you and now you can't go to New York and have some

sex. He's going to do whatever he wants. He's a grown ass man. But we know that if we are not in a good place having sex with other people will not put us in a better place that makes sense and so like you know like i said if we're going through a tough time or we have other shit going on like you know there's been a death in the family like me here you know having to worry about you know do we need to go get std checked next weekend is not going to make me feel better.

How does that work? It's like any other relationship where we use protection until we are comfortable to not use protection with someone. And we get tested after every time we've had sex, no matter where we are in the relationship with that person. Every time you had sex, you get tested?

Not with each other, but with outside partners. If you include a new person in the equation. On his side, on my side, absolutely. It seems like a lot of time. Like how do you have the time? And let me tell you, you think one relationship is a lot of work? Try two, three, four.

That's fucking hard. What about, people think of open relationships so much that they equate it to sex. But that's why I asked early on, is that like, what about the emotional relationship? 90% of it is not sex. I would even say like 99% of it is not sex. So you'll go on like movie dates with someone

that's not your boyfriend and dinner. And you're getting to know someone, you're emotionally connecting. That seems exhausting. It is, but for me, it's also fun because I get to go hang out with a girl that I'm also sexually attracted to that's not Jared,

where I can talk about something, get a new perspective, a new point of view. Is it more men than women that you find personally as someone who's attracted to women as an outlet to still... Say that again? You're in a relationship with a man, you're attracted to women, an outlet to still, you know. Say that again? You're in a relationship with a man. You're attracted to women.

You're in an open relationship. So do you find you personally, when you're going out in the States, it happens to be more women as a way? It just happens to be because I have a very hard time getting emotionally close with men in L.A. Because I, you know, it's fucking L.A. I feel like I just connect easier with women in la because i you know it's fucking la i feel like i just connect easier with women in la but i think you know when we go you know to new york or you know i'm back home in florida for a little bit like i just have a hard time with dudes in la and i don't mean that like

i'm picky i mean like dudes in la also don't like me la in la in general i'm loud tough i'm outgoing i'm also with a straight heteromaniac like i'm not very appealing to straight men in la so if this were not to work out how would you only would you go about it being a non-negotiable is i need this in my relationship but i first want to find someone i'm attracted to and then see if they're open to it or would you start like is there a community of people that you can like shop around sure but like I said with this lifestyle there's a it can go pretty far off the deep end like I think the stereotype about bisexuality pansexuality open relationships is truer to the stereotype in Los Angeles than most other places.

So I don't know that I would immediately shop in my community, as you say. I think if I were to, let's say Jared and I break up, I'm on a date with a guy from Bumble. I would always bring up my sexuality first on a first date, always. Not on your profile? Oh, it is on my profile.

What do you write? Well, mine right now is that I'm in an open relationship with a cool dude, join if you want or not, if that's not your type of thing. I think that's what it says, something fucking lame like that. Yeah, but I don't have- So you're actively on dating apps? Yeah, oh yeah. Interesting. Which is fun fun because that's where the most success is you'd be surprised how many that doesn't

surprise me it surprises me why because i think i think the majority is like people like us where we're in a couple i didn't think there would be a lot of like single people looking to be a third it makes sense to me because i think we we talk a lot about dating apps on the show whatever and dating apps also often have kind of a i don't want to say a negative connotation but like get a bad rap because i think people go in traditionally with dating apps is this great expectation of i'm looking for love and i'm looking for the love when even dating apps, when they market themselves, it's like, this is different and you're going to find a real relationship out of here. Right. But being in an open relationship and still using a dating app, it's kind of like I'm taken. I'm good. This is like an outlet. And I feel like people who use it in that form feel a lot less pressure with the

dating app. It's just like a way to meet people people and i also want people to think like it's an outlet right like jared and i have been very serious about also finding yeah love i mean like outlets are wrong word but in terms of like just it's people put so much pressure on dating apps and traditions it's like i need i need to meet my guy or my girl and like but you're good and it's like this is just another way to meet other people and it kind of comes and goes and it's like this is just another way to meet other people and it kind of comes and goes and that's how people should use dating apps in general yeah actually for that no but it also can it makes you confront all those issues you have about dating apps because there's two people involved like if you're not into someone and your partner is like you have

to confront that reality and you can't like i don't believe in being rude and ghosting and shit like i've being an open relationship has kind of forced me to also confront those scary things that i hate about dating apps like getting ghosted or like you know the miscommunications and how How often do threesomes and or watching each other play a role or is it just the freedom to have all of these relationships? I would say threesomes

are probably the most common part of our. Okay. Because my specialty is straight girls. Straight girls. Yeah. Specialty. Like I'm a very safe choice for like we're drunk do you think everyone has a dating specialty uh yeah i'm sure you do maybe i have a question a lot of

um listeners ask like how do you go from friends with benefits to a relationship how do you navigate that be open in a relationship i think i had had so many shitty relationships before that i like stayed in two for too long that i wasn't really into the person i was idealizing in my head they were trash i was trash that i before i dated jared i was single for the longest I had been single in my 20s. So I had really found out at that point what was a deal breaker for me, what wasn't. I think a lot of people, I'm assuming young people listen to this, they don't really know what they want out of a relationship. I think they have an idea in their head. what they want out of relationship.

I think they have an idea in their head and I think love tends to surprise you and people aren't ready to take a risk maybe or they're giving out risk to people that don't deserve it. They're putting up with shit that they shouldn't. So for me, it was like, I knew exactly what I didn't want in a relationship. And so there was no miscommunications and one of the very first conversations Jared and I had like on our first date was one thing I cannot stand

is liars oh that for me is I don't care if you're fucking five women right now and he was like oh yeah but I was like great I would rather have you tell me that than pretend like I'm the one for you. And I think again, like that refreshing amount of honesty was coming from a place, not of like, I'm the best. And like, I'm so confident,

but I think it came from a place of me just kind of being over it. Like not expecting anything to come out of fucking a DJ. Who made the first move in the Friends for Benefits tour relationship? Like who initiated the conversation? That's funny. I think he did. I was ready to kind of end things with him. Oh, really?

I was kind of ready to end things with him because I knew I was starting to like him a lot and we had planned a ski trip together just him and i and i was like this is so dumb we're like three months into being friends with benefits why are we going on like a very couple-y relationship and i was like well i already bought the tickets the house is already booked let's just go do the ski trip and then i'll kind of like slowly break it off with him after the ski trip and what happened was on the ski trip he got asked to go play a show in barcelona that was like a three-day trip and he was like why don't you come with me and i was like all right i'm gonna do this ski trip i'm gonna go to barcelona and then i'm gonna break up with him and

then while we were in barcelona we got drunk and he told me he loved me and i was like well i didn't say it back but power move so i guess the answer that question which i kind of always said how do you go from friends with benefit is like usually one or both people have stronger feelings they haven't admitted to and you just have to like go for it and or and be open to it like you just kind of like you got to put yourself out there totally and i could have been that person and you could have been like sorry i don't feel the same way oh yeah who knew but you had to do it

and be honest if you're honest until then then it's not like I don't know how many other women he was sleeping with she knew we were that's a great point like we were stupidly communicative that I was kind of like if I'm if I'm going to get into a relationship with someone like this is kind of the

person I was well yeah that's a good you know to that point you can have friends with benefit you don't really talk about anything else don't ask don't tell then someone puts herself out there it's like okay yeah no i feel the same way all right well have you been fucking other people while we've been doing this you're like well yeah like what do you mean i thought we were we weren't dating like i've had sex with 12 women over the course of the year you're like if 12 women yeah like you know or the guy's even worse you've slept with three guys yeah holy shit and like correct me if i'm wrong but a lot of times like people that are doing friends with benefits it is like a stress relief thing like jared and i were also going on like movie dates and like

hangouts where we weren't having sex and it was sort of like a an emotional friends with benefits too it was like we're not telling anyone we're doing this but we'll like go have sushi too well I find that a lot of women will pretend to be okay with a friends with benefits situation and they're totally not but they're like well it's cool I think it's changing like, well, it's cool. I think it's changing. It definitely is changing. I think it's changing. Yeah, but I agree. And then they eventually get what they want,

and they're super pissed that he's been having sex with other women. It's just like, you agreed to this. God, just fucking, just say how you feel, people. Be honest. Oh, it'll save you so,

oh, it'll save you so much time in your fucking 20s if you're just honest and real with people. Before we let you go, we're gonna play a fun little game called Do You Know Me? Because it's a game. But before we get into the game,

give me one final thoughts, open relationships. Do it. The best takeaway, the healthiest part about your open relationship and something that being an open relationship creates challenges and obstacles of which if someone were to consider trying it, you would advise them to

be aware of uh you have to be brutally honest with your boundaries and your non-negotiables and that will force you to really look inside yourself and confront some embarrassing truth and maybe some like fun kinks you might discover but you cannot have a successful open relationship if both people and parties aren't 1050 million percent into i have one more question and i've been asked so do you want to get married and have kids someday don't know don't know if you were to do you have any idea you'd want to continue the openness of the relationship me and jared joke all the time because i don't know is that we there would be nothing more we would love than to find a girl who wants to like live in our pool house and also do whatever she wants but also like have our babies great so any girls out there

want to live in our pool house but also have sex with us but then also go live your life also you can have sex with whoever you want to just be safe about it be honest with us and then also bear jared's children dm me because you whoever you want to. Just be safe about it. Be honest with us. And then also bear Jared's children. DM me. Because you don't want to. You don't want to. I don't know. Right now, no.

Would you want to be your egg? Like a surrogate sex slave? Or just her? Do you want to use her eggs or just her body? I don't know. Okay. Open-ended. Anyways, reach out to Kelsey if you are flexible.

Yes. In more ways than one now we get it yeah um we're gonna play a fun little game called do you know me it's a game we play there's a game out there called do you know me it's available on amazon fun little conversations uh come from simple questions we're showing iron to guess who you who knows kelsey oh a little bit more i'm gonna question. You're going to think to the answer yourself. We're going to guess. Oh, and I'm going to say who's right.

You're going to say who's right. I love. If there's a fun anecdote or a further continuation of your answer, feel free to share. Great. This is your type of game. I love when the attention's on me. Us. Yeah.

Does Kelsey have a condom with her? Great question, Rochelle. These questions were selected by Rochelle. Someone who does believe in safe sex and the openness to meeting anyone at any time to fit her needs. It would make sense that she does, but does she actually have one?

Yes. I'm going to say no. I don't think that she carries condoms around with her as a general rule. It's a general rule. I feel like Kelsey doesn't like to believe in rules. She said so much. She has other words for them.

I went to the bathroom during that part. What? Who? I did. Oh. I mean, who knows? But I'm going to say yes. I'm going to say my answer.

I'm definitely saying no. The answer is no. Yes. Because I have my work backpack. You don't keep condoms in your work backpack? Do you have condoms at your bedside table? Yeah, of course. Bedside table, but do you ever carry them around with you?

Yes, I do. Because I don't believe that people with penises should be the only people to carry condoms. Oh, bold. Where do you keep them? Multiple purses. Okay. Multiple drawers in my room. You've seen my room. There's like

six dresser drawers and there's things in all of them. I don't really remember. I do remember. You've seen her room. The essential oils that I have? Yeah. I showed him my essential oils collection. None of which were good until she got natural habits. What do you think of them, by the way? I carry the roll-on in my work backpack. I every day oh he gave the day he gave it to me i

had a tension headache yeah and it was gone in 30 minutes which one did you give her center is that the one that smells like christmas yeah that one's no that's that's uh protect that oh i thought that's more protect immune system boost nhos.com quick plug I don't know when this episode is going to drop but probably after Thanksgiving yours is going to drop the week of Thanksgiving 30% off code open open

anyways back to the game has Kelsey checked their weather app in the last week she's wearing a very fitting sweater In the last week. She's wearing a very fitting sweater. She absolutely has. Yes.

Yes. I checked the weather multiple times a day. Multiple times a day? I have it on the front face of my Apple Watch. I'm obsessed with knowing because I sweat a lot. I will say, I check it more than I think I should living in LA. I never check it. You would think it's living in LA. I never check it. You would think it's hot and the answer is usually yes. But with outfits, never be too sure.

Has Kelsey ever bought Bitcoin? 100%. She's dating a guy who's a DJ in tech, which means he definitely was involved on the whole Bitcoin bubble. And he maybe like did some sort of weird investment. She's even bought more than Bitcoin. That's how they have a pool house. She's bought like Ethereum. I kelsey knows a lot about bitcoin

um wait i'm gonna say no because um she's got her she's got other things she's focused on i actually use ethereum not bitcoin but your answer is i am balls deep in cryptocurrency because of my dj boyfriend balls deep he was also balls i also own some ethereum yeah you did is it did it pay off or is it did you i'm not looking at it right now it's not a good time my understanding isn't it's coming has Kelsey ever been in a band? No. No. No. I do love to sing.

I'm a musical theater nerd. What's the score? You are? Me too. Oh, yeah? What's your favorite? Two, one, Nick? Book of Mormon.

She's a very good. I won the lottery to get front row tickets. You did? Amazing. I sat at the very back row. Well, I went with my father who's a conservative. It was very funny.

Did he like it or hate it? He hated how much he loved it. My mouth was like open the whole time. I was like, I can't believe they're saying this. Yeah, I was like, I can't believe they're saying this.

That's kind of more what it was was like the shame of my childhood was like, oh my God, my father is right next to me. Yes. But you had sex so young. Not with my father. Is your to me. Yes. But you had sex so young. She's not with my father.

Is your dad from Florida? No, Connecticut. But I feel like there's a lot of fathers who moved to Florida and regretted raising their family. He was like, what the fuck? How are you both in rehab? But yes.

What's the 2-1, Nick? I feel like I've got to be winning. You got like i'm gotta be winning you got condoms right but have you got anything else right this past one right weather oh we got that right yeah you said weather wrong i think you're winning fine you're winning yeah 2-1 all right here's the tiebreaker i'm calling it changing the rules did kelsey get a car for their 16th birthday? No. Yes. Her dad's from Connecticut. Okay. Daddy's from Connecticut.

You convinced me, but just to make it fun, I'm going to say no. I got a Mercedes convertible. Oh, my God. Are you kidding? I think Rochelle gets two points for guessing it. Whoa. CLK 350 bucket seats. That's why you ended up in the movie. yeah yeah i was given too much as a child it's correct well because my parents weren't around they were just like here's things and i

was like okay but i'm alone all the time but i was we'll have to talk about rehab. Kelsey, thanks for coming in. Thanks for having me. This has been a pleasure and very informative. Do you have enough energy to come to mine? Yeah. Okay. We're now going to record Kelsey's podcast. And it will be out Thanksgiving.

Can you name the name? Confidently Insecure. Confidently Insecure. We're absolutely sure we don't know everything. And I'm going to ask Nick some questions. Where else can people find you kelsey just everywhere can you be more she's on this really funny show called dating no filter yeah zach noe towers yeah watch that on e if this is coming out around thanksgiving dating no filters coming back so funny you're so funny it'll come out sometime around there okay Okay. That show's always on TV.

Help me get my 7,000 Instagram followers back. Yeah. I'm desperately trying to crack half a million. I can't. Well. Too many butt photos, I was told, by Instagram. Oh, they made you take them down? No, they just, I went and met with them and was like, what happened to 7,000 of my followers?

And they were like, you've been posting nothing but your asshole. 7,000 people don't like your butt? Listen, I don't get it either that doesn't make sense you know it's gonna make people go i've seen enough of us and then i'll bring other people back yeah but i like my butt i'm sure it's great i agree thank you i've learned that if you're gonna go to instagram and ask about why you are they'll just they'll just make up some answers. I didn't know you could meet with Instagram. Oh, sorry. You have to be a reality star?

You have to be a reality star. I didn't find it to be very helpful. Mr. Instagram. I didn't find it to be very helpful. Daddy Warbucks. We started and ended the same way with me calling you Daddy Warbucks. Yeah. Well, thanks for listening

everybody uh give us five stars if you want or not you're busy uh sending your questions at ask a nick at cast me.com cast with a k yeah we do uh oh yeah don't it's a whole another episode no i do i do i do uh final thoughts bye I do. I do. I do. Final thoughts. Bye. Bye.