The Viall Files - E662 Going Deeper with April Kirkwood - Dating Gerry Turner and Frankie Valli Plus Travis Kelce’s PR Fail

Episode Date: November 2, 2023

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Going Deeper Edition! First, the household gets together to discuss some recent pop culture headlines - like Taylor and Travis spending Halloween together, Selena being uncertain about their public romance, and Travis’ publicist posting a photo of Taylor with a clown emoji covering her face. Then, we are joined by Golden Bachelor’s April Kirkwood to talk about her time on the show, why she and Gerry didn’t work, and advice she has for younger women and daters. We also have a Texting Office Hours caller who recently moved in with her boyfriend, only to have her mother threaten to not pay for her wedding.  “There seemed to be an age difference even though there isn’t.”  Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes. Join us for our new LIVE show on Thursdays at 9PM ET/6PM PT on Amp, available in the Apple app store. Android User? Listen here: https://www.onamp.com/   To Order Nick’s Book Go To: http://www.viallfiles.com  If you would like to get some texting advice on Office Hours send an email to [e-mail] with “Texting Office Hours” in the subject line! To advertise on the show, contact [e-mail] or visit https://www.advertisecast.com/TheViallFiles  THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: IQ Bar - Refuel smarter with IQBAR’s Ultimate Sampler Pack. That’s 7 IQBARs, 4 IQMIX sticks, and 4 IQJOE sticks. And now, our special podcast listeners get twenty percent off all IQBAR products, plus get FREE shipping. To get your twenty percent off, just text FILES to 64000. SKIMS - The Fits Everybody collection and more perfect-fit essentials are available now at https://www.SKIMS.com Plus, get free shipping on orders over seventy five dollars! Caraway - Visit https://www.Carawayhome.com/VIALL to take advantage of this limited-time offer for 10% off your next purchase. Rocket Money - Stop wasting money on things you don’t use. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions – and manage your money the easy way – by going to https://www.RocketMoney.com/VIALL  Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @nnataliejjoy @aprillynnkirkwood @alison.vandam @liffordthebigreddog @dereklanerussell @genevievegoodman 

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That's FILES to 64000. Message and data rates may apply. See terms for details. You're crazy. to 64,000. Message and data rates may apply. See terms for details. What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to another exciting episode of the Vow Files Going Deeper edition. I'm your host, Nick, joined by the household of Genevieve, Amanda, Allie, and Derek, and my lovely fiance, our pop culture correspondent, Allie Joy. How are you doing, babe? I'm doing great. How are you?

I'm doing delightful. What's new? I mean, I know. Well, we saw our baby yesterday. We did. Oh my gosh, how was it? I mean, magical, but say more. Doing great. Yeah, we saw her with our main OB. Our main doctor. Yeah, so, she's doing good.

She's perfect, obviously. Have they told you? I know at certain points they're like, oh, right now your baby's the size of an almond oh yeah every day she's a new vegetable vegetable and or fruit or fruit

oh that's good gotta throw in the fruits but sometimes it is confusing because it's like is it like the width or the diameter also and apparently

when they measure the baby it's just from like head to butt like apparently your legs don't matter no it's because a baby can't stretch out

yeah a baby can't stretch out fully in the womb so they measure head to butt like apparently your legs don't matter no it's because the baby can't stretch out yeah baby can't stretch out fully in the womb in the womb like this so they measure head to butt yeah yeah so it doesn't make sense well but sure seeing you do that reminds me my best friend was in town for halloween and she's she didn't do it this year but she always says i want to be a barrel woman for halloween like one of the women who went down Niagara Falls in a barrel. But we talked a lot about feasibility of like, what would it look like? Because obviously you need to be kind of like crouched in the fetal position. You could stand and have a barrel around you. Yeah.

I feel like people have done this. Yeah. I don't know. I would love to get y'all's take on my costume. Your costume. Who did everyone, who all dressed up? Nellie and I did not. my costume. Your costume? Who all dressed up? Nellie and I did not. Derek did.

I dressed up. You dressed up. I mean, I know you guys all went as me, which was lovely. Yep. Shout out Allie, our mastermind. Our mastermind and hero. But did you guys do anything over the weekend or for Halloween? I sure did.

Okay, so one night, this is boring. I... So, okay. So one night, this is boring. I was Kim Possible and Shego with my friend. The next night, I was... Is this the costume

your friends thought I would hate? Yes. Well, commenters on the internet. Commenters on the internet? It was like, I bet Nick hates this.

Okay. Is it mayo? It's just like covered in white blood. Like, saw this this is from my instagram i saw this and did you know what i was uh you were the girl who had a leaky butt diarrhea on a plane oh my god yeah i was the woman who had diarrhea oh no you went all out i went all out you'll notice that i really like, I was rubbing. I was trying to figure out how best to make poopy on my pants.

What did you put there? Dirt. Dirt. Like a lot of dirt. And then I kind of like wet it before the photos. That way it would come through. Because I was going to do chocolate. But then, because I was like, I want this to come out of the pants.

Right. But I also don't want to like get shit on like a bar stool or like a friend's couch or anything like that so dirt was the solution were you able to sit down at all yeah I sure was yeah and I have to say I think in the moment I was so like when I was deciding I was so committed to the bit oh and my best friend was a flight attendant little duos costume but I don't think I fully realized what it would feel like to walk around a bar with a poop stain like which sounds like obvious but i i don't think it fully dawned on me until i was there and i was like wow i'm really and like everybody's like being like slutty hot tinkerbell and i was in your poop girl i had poopy you were slutty hot poop girl

i feel like this is a pretty conservative i were, she could have done a crop top or, you know. But it does say, ask me about my butthole. I could have been naked. Smeared with bread. Oh my God, you could have been. I could have been. But this is a huge shout out to Tushy because it's been one of my favorite shirts I've ever owned.

And there's very few opportunities to wear it. I ended up sleeping in it. And then the next day I got a food delivery and I forgot that I've ever owned. And there's very few opportunities to wear it. I ended up sleeping in it. And then the next day I got a food delivery and I forgot that I was wearing it. And I went to get it. And then I was like, oh, boy, that delivery driver must have felt really, really weird. Oh, my gosh. Has anyone ever asked you about the butthole? Inappropriate. It's a T-shirt. It says, ask me about the butthole or inappropriate it's a t-shirt it says ask me about i think did people ask me about my butthole no but did it did it make them more likely to start a conversation with me yes i met one man who wasn't always a guy wasn't in costume and my friend kira and i were talking to him we

were like oh you didn't dress up and he was like yeah halloween's bad talking and we were like, oh, you didn't dress up. And he was like, yeah, Halloween's bad for me. We were like, what do you mean? And he was like, well, one year I got a DUI. We were like, oh, that's horrible. But also kind of feels like under your control, but whatever. And then he was like, and then the next year I got jumped at a party and I got a concussion. And so then and then he was like, but most of all, I don't like wearing tights. And we were like, well, you don't have to wear tights on Halloween. Really good news for you, my man. And he just kept going, I don't like wearing tights. I don't like wearing tights.

This guy's problem solving skills are poor. His solution to a DUI and getting jumped was not wearing tights. That's all I'm hearing. With some self-limiting beliefs. But he could still go to the party. He was still at the party. Yes. Did you dress up, Genevieve?

Yeah. Where'd you go? Allie and I were our Jason and Travis outfits one night at Taylor Swift party. And then the next night, my boyfriend and I- There was a Taylor Swift party? Yeah, on 1989 release day.

I see. It was so much fun. And then my boyfriend and I were Jeff Probst and Boston Rob from Survivor. If anyone even knows that. That's awesome. Were you Boston Rob or Jeff? I was Boston Robb from Survivor. If anyone even knows that. That's awesome. Were you Boston Robb or Jeff? I was Boston Robb.

That's cute. A woman of my own heart. Yes. I love Survivor. That's great. Derek, what were you? So it was Sid's decision, and we both went as Patrick Bateman,

which is fun for American Psycho. But we went to a pub crawl, and there's this girl with her friend group, and her friend was like, they did your costume way costume way better wait they said that about a different they said that to Derek's costume wasn't as good as someone else's no our costume was better than the girl in their friend group oh oh nicely done Derek yeah so did you feel bad or did you feel like why did her friend single her out like that you know did you talk to her later and be like i think your costume is pretty good no she she ran away i think in you know in that person's defense you and you and your girlfriend had a very well executed costume like you guys

like you guys did it well like you know sometimes people do like high precision halloween costumes where they'll like pull out all the stops and it's like, you didn't just like splatter some like ketchup on you and call it like, you did like very realistic. So I think like you guys just had a very high level costume. Credit to Cichy, manually painted it. So yeah.

Wow. So you were both different versions of Patrick Bateman? No, we're the same. Just twins. Yeah, just twins. The raincoat with the blood. Yeah. Have you seen the movie?

I have. Yeah, I'm very familiar. What were we going to be if you, because Nick doesn't ever i think of all the hollering costumes that makes he does he does not help it's me so what if i was like i can't help you this year what would we have been yeah me being pregnant keep that in mind keep that in mind hum Humpty Dumpty? You could have been Nidge and Ken. The pregnant Barbie. Oh, yeah, the pregnant Barbie. Oh, my God, you could have easily done that.

I did see, we watched The Office last night, and it was their Halloween episode, and Pam is pregnant. How ironic. She's a kangaroo, and I was like, that is so cute. You've got your little pouch with the little baby kangaroo. I didn't realize that we accidentally watched a Halloween Office episode on the eve of Halloween.

And it was just like next up in our queue. Wow. Wow. The timing of impeccable. Wow. I'm really interested to see if Travis and Taylor are indeed spending Halloween together and if they do anything. Because she landed in Kansas City and apparently they're going to be-

Is she on like a flight tracker at this point? People saw her plane land. God, that's nuts. Does her plane have her face on it? No. Like a Jojo Siwa situation? People just know. People just know. Yeah. Yeah. There are people that bored. Okay. Which would be like me being one of them.

I watched it land. No, but you're not the one tracking it. You are following the people who are. No, no, I'm not. I do follow those people. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. But to give them, like, credit at the Taylor Swift premiere, like, they all got invited to watch the premiere. Like, she handpicked all these TikTokers that, like, devoted their accounts to her.

She handpicked the people who track her flights. She validated. Maybe not, like, the stalker ones, but. So she landed in Kansas City yesterday? I think the day before yesterday. So are they, do they have a home game this weekend? He's going to Germany. They play in Germany.

Oh. For what? Packers played in London last year. They're trying to go international. The NFL is trying to hit Europe. Yeah. Okay. So like they're spending the week together before he jets off to Germany.

Well, I wonder if she'll come. Maybe. I mean, her international tour starts in November. They lost last Sunday without her, so yikes. And I think it's a holiday that I think it makes a lot of sense to spend with a partner or someone you're dating. partner or someone you're dating. Like, I think Halloween is like Valentine's Day for people in situationships slash fun people in relationships in the sense that it is like a very like it's it's like I feel like everyone's kind of horny. It's a very loose, silly, like, you know, there's just no romance involved. Yeah. It's just like, let's go have fun and get drunk. Yes. But also,

like, I can be hot in a kind a distinct and odd way if I want to. Do you have a favorite costume? Do I have a favorite costume? I never was good at picking out Halloween costumes. I would always just go to Party City and get the bagged costume. Jessica Rabbit and Roger Rabbit was pretty good. Or Awesome Powers was pretty good. Awesome Powers was pretty good.

Those were all last minute ones. Poison Ivy, I good i did pretty good with poison ivy you're who were you who's the the question mark guy that's with the poison ivy the riddler riddler yeah they were out of the riddler costumes at the halloween store so we had to just makeshift we just do a question mark on his tank top and by out now it's like i'm going as poison ivy so you have to do whatever you want make it work designers what is this i hear about selena gomez saying that her uh that taylor and travis are moving to okay this seems very on selena and so i'm not sure if this is real. It's in page six. It's apparently coming from an insider, but it just seems so on Selena.

The quote is, Selena thinks Taylor is going to games and gallivanting through New York immediately after just meeting Travis is something that is very unlike her, which is true, but like gallivanting through New York. Yeah, Selena wouldn't say that.

It sounds petty. I know. They're besties. They're close friends. Such close friends. Selena has said that in the industry, Taylor is like

her only true friend. So this feels really something that she would not be spreading online. The elevating sounds judgmental. Yeah.

In a way. Totally. She's in her re-1989 era. I also feel like Selena is not talking to the press about Taylor's relationship. Like, absolutely would not.

I agree. And so at best, this is about Taylor's relationship. Like, absolutely would not. I agree. And so at best, this is like secondhand information. Yeah, I guess this is like the person who Selena was like allegedly talking shit to coming to... Page six. Page six and saying, this is what Selena thinks. Yeah. That them holding hands after a month in like the eyes of the paparazzi is strange wait holding hands is strange yeah taylor being excited well maybe it is unlike taylor

who cares i feel like you know you meet someone that you're excited about you might do things differently right i don't know, I'd like to think that when I met Natalie and vice versa, that we acted differently with each other than anyone else in the past. Would you say that I'm different now than I was in the beginning? Sure. Of course. But yeah, I mean, we all acted differently. Okay. Allie just sent this very pertinent quote. The worst kind of person is someone who makes someone feel bad, dumb, or stupid for being excited about something. Taylor Swift.

Taylor said that. Yeah. Yeah. Years ago. Yeah, I'm going to debunk this, Selena, and say that I didn't. I don't think Selena said this. It didn't happen. Hope to God not.

Because they have such a nice friendship. Really supportive friendship. But you know, it's also really weird. So Travis Kelsey's publicist was in the background of some of the photos taken of Taylor at these games

because like she was just there in the box. And so someone posted online one of those photos with the publicist in the background and the caption was like, this is my Roman Empire, like Taylor being at these games, whatever. And one of her friends reposted that for her birthday and was like, you know, this girl is my Roman Empire. And then either the friend or the publicist, when she reposted this, put the clown emoji over Taylor Swift's face. What the fuck?

Wait, say that again. Do you have this? His publicist put the clown emoji over Taylor Swift's face. Or the friend. We don't know. Well. Hold on. Bring this up.

Bring this up. Happy birthday to our Roman Empire. Which one's his publicist? The one in the brown hair with the phone. And so it's her birthday? The publicist? The one in the brown hair with the phone. And so it's her birthday? The publicist? Yeah. And since this, she's made her account private.

Obviously got a lot of backlash on this. But just as like Travis's publicist, for her not to be supporting anything he's doing, like including who he's dating, seems just like a bad publicist move. Yeah, because my first thought was an accident maybe wrong emoji no that's kind of what i was thinking too or i was like i think any emoji would be why are you covering taylor's face she's not a like a three-year-old infant

you're trying to protect their identity no but if it's not about taylor maybe like putting a heart over her that's what i was thinking. You know, like the clown emoji. But the clown emoji. But even covering someone's face is, it's like a bag over the head kind of insinuation. No, it's just like it's not about them.

Like, you just don't, like, want to make sure that the birthday post is, like, clear that it's a birthday post. Yeah. Like, if I posted a picture of you and there was, like,

a stranger in the background, I'd cover their face but why why is this this photo that we're looking at is front and center so there's three other photos literally in the background of the main photo we're discussing and this main photo is this picture of this publicist and taylor in front of her it's in the us weekly article so it's the us Weekly post that they just like reshared. And so it's because she's in Us Weekly? Maybe.

To me, this is weird. Like, why would a publicist care if they're in Us Weekly? But they're used, they picked a picture. Her friend picked a picture. Okay, fine. But it seems like a weird picture

to use if you want the focus to be on the friend. Right. Like, the whole point of this photo is that it was awesome celebrate you were in the background of a taylor swift photo you were all over news everywhere all your friends text you were like oh my god i saw you that's the point that's the whole point of the photo and if you want to cover taylor swift i agree with you natalie like the heart was the first thing that came to mind like it has to be unabashedly positive see i actually disagree if you want to cover just pick a different photo is my point.

If you don't want, if you want it to be about you, then why are you picking the photo where anyone else is in it? Because I think it's still like iconic that she's in this like Us Weekly photo that went everywhere. She's behind Mama Kelsey. She's behind Taylor Swift. Like this photo went in every way. I think it's like.

But it's only iconic because it's Taylor Swift. Obviously. So why is she covering her face? That's the question we all have. Would you rather your face be covered with a clown emoji or a snake emoji? Clown. Because maybe

I'm just a goofy, fun guy. A snake? No. A clown never means that. Never. And everyone knows. Have you seen that tweet? That's like my I'm just a goofy fun guy a snake no a clown never means that I know never and everyone knows have you seen that tweet that's like my favorite

insult is who's this clown because it's saying not only are you a clown you're not one of notoriety this is this is shocking to me but it's

I know people think she might get fired if my publicist did this yeah what would you do I'd fire you'd fire Travis if you're listening this is a If my publicist did this? Yeah, what would you do? I'd fire. Travis, if you're listening.

This is a lack of judgment. The whole reason to have a publicist is to make good decisions about how you interface with the public. And to understand media. And to understand how people are going to react and to understand the nuances and to think about things that your client just is overlooking because they have a million things going on they they should be in the weeds about how people interpret all this shit they should know about emojis and silly things like that in addition

to obviously like having contacts and media and booking you for like gigs and shit like that and this is a clear like sign of like a lack of judgment like this is bad publicity for her what a bad look if your publicist is getting bad publicity truly you know does it make a difference if it was the friend like if it was a friend who put the emoji on and she still reshared it so it's like one thing to get that notification respond in the dm like ha ha ha this is so funny not reshare it but then another thing to put it on your public story and have yeah you know i what were you thinking is not a question i ever want to have to ask my publicist that's what they should be asking you yeah it's like what were you thinking nick use your fucking brain we talked publicist that's what they should be asking you yeah it's like what were you thinking

nick use your fucking brain we talked about this that's their job to talk to me not the other way around and i for the life of me cannot think of a reason that would let this person off the hook even if it was an accident because you should know how taylor's fans are they are in everything and especially now in the relationship and then not to mention the stress of fans so it's gonna get back to travis it's gonna cause drama in the relationship also like i also don't want a publicist that wants attention and fame i want a publicist that is behind the fucking drama who doesn't care about that that acts as if that knows how to be around celebrities that know isn't like fucking jacked up because they've that is behind the fucking drama who doesn't care about that, that acts as if, that knows how to be around celebrities,

that isn't like fucking jacked up because they got a little fucking love from Us Weekly. Like amateur hour. Period. That's crazy though. That's something your aunt would do. Your aunt, Amanda.

No, any aunt. It's like, oh, Aunt Jenny. It's like, oh my God, Us Weekly because she's literally in the background on her phone of Taylor Swift in a suite. And that's the reason that she's in Us Weekly. She's an unidentified person in the Us Weekly article and yet wanted to promote that. And so to me, that comes across as someone who's just like so excited that they're on the five o'clock news as witness number four.

She's the publicist of Travis Kelsey, who's just like so excited that they're on the five o'clock news is witness number four she's the publicist of travis kelsey who's dating taylor swift you need to act like you belong and i just came for her throat i'm trying to think of a different explanation yeah how's that conversation go between her and travis like what's excuse? I guess that conversation has got to be her saying, sorry, my friend just picked any emoji to go over her face because she wanted me to be the focal point for my birthday. And I just reposted all of the birthday thing. You know, it's not a good look. Yes. It's ultimately like, I don't know. I think sometimes I just feel bad about how punishing industries can be, even though you're right that it is kind of like the name of the game for PR so you can see how it's just like her job to have good judgment

she made a public statement yeah she just made her Instagram on private this is like a day or two ago you know it's like well Travis ain't coming on this show now if I have to go through well typically I feel like she would have to go to travis and be like okay we

have to make some sort of public statement like we have you know but now it's like she's the one who fucked up so is travis like you have to make a public statement like you have i don't think there's a statement to be made because statements only make things more amplified. The best way to handle this is just to not acknowledge it. Yeah. And act like everyone is in on it and people don't know and it's beneath them to explain to everyone. This is how Taylor Swift returns to comfort Travis Kelsey amid this. Did the chief fire his publicist? amid this.

Did the chief I don't think that's what she said. fire his publicist? Will reportedly not fire his publicist who claims she was just reposting a birthday message and did not notice

the clown emoji over Swift. She didn't notice it? She didn't notice it. Front and center. She didn't notice it. There is no version that What? Oh my God.

Look who she used to work with. Scooter Braun. No. What? You're kidding. This is damning. That's really damning. If you had to pick,

who is Taylor Swift's number one public enemy? Not Kanye. Scooter Braun. It's him. At least recently. Certainly one of the... He's in the Mount Rush... had to pick who is taylor swift's number one public enemy not kanye scooter brown at least recently certainly one of the he's in the mount rush they're in the mount rushmore of taylor's enemies and and this young lady used to work with him and then subsequently posted a clown face over Taylor for her birthday? The plot thickens. It does. Man, if Travis, if... She's not fired yet,

but she won't be working with him in six months. I guarantee you Taylor's sitting Travis down and being like, let's talk about your team and how we elevate it. I think this is going to be a little moment where Taylor kind of explains to Travis, you're on a new level with me and here's how you level up.

It's just one thing to be a publicist of a professional athlete. It's quite another to be a publicist for a worldwide celebrity. And Travis is now a worldwide celebrity. He's no longer just a professional athlete. Yeah. No, I don't think you're wrong. I just, I, on a personal level, just like hate situations that are really punishing over one mistakes, even though those exist in the world.

There are high stakes jobs and you don't get two chances to make catastrophic decisions. And again, I don't think this decision was catastrophic because Taylor, I just think, is going to be fine, doesn't care, and Travis doesn't care. But to me, if I'm Travis, I was like, I can't trust this person's judgment. And your sole job is to make quality judgments

on my behalf. And also, why the fuck do you hate Taylor? What did Scooter Braun say to you? Oh my God. God. Oh no. Anyway, we have a great episode for you.

The one and only April, the golden lady herself from The Golden Bachelor is with us to get all the tea about Gary. I don't know. We'll see. We were told April

is a chatty one. We'll give us what we want. I don't know. We'll see. We were told April is a chatty one and will give us what we want. I don't know. We'll see if she delivers. Yeah, we'll see. Maybe some words of wisdom from our golden lady, you know?

I'd really like to know what she thinks about like dating culture today. I mean, what's her love life been like since The Bachelor? Are her DMs open? Does she know

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cooking set that you need to have other than Caraway, truly. Visit carawayhome.com slash V-I-A-L-L to take advantage of the limited time offer of 10% off your next purchase. This deal is exclusive for our listeners. So visit carewayhome.com slash V-I-A-L-L or use code V-I-A-L-L at checkout. Careway, non-toxic cookware made modern. April, welcome. Hi, how are you? Good to be here. So excited to be talking with you. Well, first of all, how are you doing?

Like, what's this whole experience been like for you? Right now, I am convalescing from a little bit of a cough and a cold. I think I have been running so quickly. It seems like it's been going on for a long time since I applied all the way till this moment in time. Absolutely a great adventure. If anyone gets an opportunity to do something like this, if the fates intercede, go for it.

Jump in. Don't lean in, jump in. Jump in. Okay, how did you find out about this? Were you one of those people like watching and then they would be like, if you're looking to date and you're a certain age, was that you?

Or did you have a friend sign you up? How did you find out about this opportunity? Actually, I've never watched The Bachelor at all. I know nothing about it. I'm still a baby Bachelor groupie. People kept sending me application after application. I have lost the love of my life two years ago. And I think I was really down in the dumps. I am very eccentric. They know that about me. And people kept saying, oh, my God, this is going to be so much fun.

You've got to do this. Have a blast with it. And about after the eighth application, I sent one in and the rest is history. What were your expectations going in to this process? Like what were you hoping, you know, especially as someone who hasn't watched and didn't know what to expect when you kind of went in and showed up, like what were you thinking? What was going through your brain? Well, my daughter and I then went on TV and we watched some of the back series, a few of the bachelors. And I got very intimidated

by the women because it seemed like there was a lot of fighting going on, a lot of tension in the house and a lot of striving to get the affections of this one person, which it's not organic to me. Or if it is, I never had to see it myself. Not that another man has never dated other people beside myself, but not in my face. So that was concerning to me. And also the odds of that happening that I would truly find the love of my life. I was a bit skeptical. Also, Ralph had just passed away two years ago, and I really had not dated like in 20 years. So I'm really, you know, fresh out of all of this grief and stuff. So at the time, it was pretty scary, but exciting.

When you went on, was the excitement more around the opportunity to do this kind of fun TV thing? Or was it more about, hey, what a crazy way this will be to start dating again? Which one was it more? Both. I knew I needed a kickstart to get over this. In fact, I had actually prayed for months, please give me a break, God. You know, I was a caretaker, blah, blah, blah. Relationships have their ups and downs. We had a lot of downs. And I said, please give me something. I've been a good person. I've been a good girl.

Help me. And this fell. And I thought, this is my way to jump back into the dating world where I didn't have a choice. I couldn't run. I had to see him. I had to meet him. I had to talk to him because normally what might have happened or what had happened up to that point is I would meet somebody and then I would retract myself and go back in my shell and go, well, I'm not ready. But I didn't have that opportunity. I had to be ready. Therefore, I am now ready. Okay.

It really helped me. It was very healing. Did you know that Gary was The Bachelor by the time you said yes to going on the show? No, I had said yes. And then I saw him on abc in the morning show and um i had a lot of mixed emotions what were those yeah well i kind of am a different person than uh gary i really don't like muddy ponds indiana's not my thing. Oh, like literally. I thought that was like a metaphor for like, literally, Gary is a money pawn. Gary's baggage or something.

Yeah. I mean, I really kind of was, you know, I'm not from money for sure, but I do have a different lifestyle and I love it. And I live in South Florida and I'm willing to share that with anybody that I fall madly in love with. But I could see that this was going to be a real challenge, putting that nicely. What was your first impression of Gary once meeting him? Were you pleasantly surprised or was it kind of what you expected? No, I was pleasantly surprised on how good looking he was and how well kept he was. He looked much better in real life than he did on TV. I don't know if it was the suntan or the beautiful clothes or the atmosphere. He has beautiful blue eyes that are dazzling.

And of course, he was his charming self as much as he could be. He is not a player. I am a player. What do you mean by that, April? If I can't play in love and I can't have fun with someone and tease and joke and enjoy, I don't think he kind of got my jokes. I just think it was like... Oh, okay. Do you think Gary was a little too serious for you when i asked him his favorite song and he said dean martin and mine is harry styles um we agree with you yeah yeah and i wanted to go to see um taylor swift at a concert um i you know that there is there seemed to be an age difference, even though there isn't.

So I think age is a mental state. If I'm hearing you correctly, I don't even know your age, but you live young. And it felt like maybe for you, Gary lived a little older. Yeah. Even if I don't live young, I like to think I live young. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, you have more wisdom than me, but I feel like our perspective on life very much determines what that life is. So if you act old and think old, if you think you're too old for X, Y, or Z, then you will be. And if you are open to new trends and new ideas, and you're willing to become a new fan of someone like Harry Styles or Taylor Swift, you'll have a more youthful, younger energy about you. And, you know, the more I get old, the more I think about that, you know, and I'm as old as I want to be. Yeah.

And I'm as old as I want to be. Yeah. Don't ever get stuck. The only thing that is constant is change. Either you are moving forwards or you are moving backwards, but you're never staying the same. We're always changing. So either we're dragging or we're moving upwards. And I want to move forward always in an authentic way. There are some things that I will say, yeah, I'm not really into that right

now. But for most part, I'm out there trying to find my passions in music, in life, in dancing, in song, in movies, wherever. Can you help us solve a great debate that we've been discussing on the show? Yeah, sure. Give us the tea on Kathy and Teresa. Like, are you team Kathy or are you team Teresa? Because you seem like you're more friends with Kathy on the show. But for the life of me, I could not understand why Kathy seemed so mean to Teresa for being excited about a date. But maybe you were there. We all know that things don't always appear as if they happened. Maybe you can shed some light for us.

Well, first of all, it was happening a lot more than the scenes that you see. Also, I think Kathy's come from a lot of trauma. I don't know why it affected her so much. I was told similar things from Teresa. It didn't seem to bother me. Or maybe it was because I really was not feeling the connection to Gary's fucking care. What happened? I was like, I'm here to have a good time. I mean, I, you know, I'm here to try if it works, it works. If there's not, you know, phone will ring the next minute. Yeah. Gary clearly wasn't your guy. That's okay. Right. Not everyone's everyone's person no disrespect to gary i'm glad he's not my guy i don't look like i belong on a wedding cake with him no you don't no

i gotta find my guy yeah i'll know it i'll know it i mean i know i fall in love right away and there's certain things that i you know attach to attached to somebody. And I, then I go now, had he been somebody like that, like my, when I lose all my brains and I don't know, and everything I've ever learned in my life goes out the window, I would have been a maniac. I would have been ripping off my panties and like, like running. I would have been pushing people away, knocking them over metaphysically, spiritually, verbally, probably. But I think that Kathy, you know, is very sensitive. And I had to understand that. Also, Kathy had become a good friend of mine. We room together. We kind of hang out together. And I

had known her backstory. So I had a little bit more sympathy for her reaction. But I did back up when that happened. I mean, you didn't see me talk as much as I probably could have in defending her or Teresa. I just went, I don't want to deal with this. Well, yeah. Talking to you, it almost sounds like you were able to maybe see both sides and maybe they just had a disconnect because I don't get the impression that you thought Teresa was trying to have be malicious or anything. No, I don't think Teresa, I'm not sure her IQ. Um, but I think Teresa was maybe naively, either she is naive, or she is a brilliant mastermind. I don't know which that was. But she came off very sweet, very tender. And I think maybe she really loved Gary. I and so I had to understand that she's

excited. She's talking. What are we going to do? I don't know. I mean, I can't judge anybody. It was so awesome to see like the genuine friendships that formed on the show. And I'm curious, like what those friendships look like now? Like, would you say it's one big group? Are there certain people who you've stayed in closer touch with? No, we have the asking group. It's April, Susan, Kathy, Kathy, and Nancy. We are all different. We're very close. Since I got sick, they've called me several times. We're going to St. Martin in January on a vacation. times we're going to saint martin in january on a vacation we may fly off to one of our homes for the uh last series the last finale show and um we really really like each other we like talking together i think we're the funniest when we're not cued up. When people are just filming us and we're just being ourselves,

we're like the new age golden girls. That's what they call us, whatever that means. I don't watch the golden girls. Yeah, it's outdated. But yeah, if you love it, we don't want to yuck your gum. Yeah, I get it. I get it. I get it.

And I appreciate it. Totally. Yeah. You're more Harry Styles, Taylor Swift. We understand. You know, I think a lot of people fell in love with all you ladies, fell in love with Gary. He's, you know, as someone who's been in his shoes before as The Bachelor, it's a very difficult thing to do what he's doing. I understand that. And what he has been so good, just from a viewer standpoint, seems to be he's present. He seems to be good at being empathetic. He's really always on in a great way, especially for The Bachelor. Yeah, I saw Gary very differently. I knew a little bit about

his personal history, which I will not share, but I always in the back of things, I would call him the peacock. What do you mean the peacock what do you mean april i mean i know you don't want to share but like where did you hear about this personal history he told me about his family life and it was very similar to mine and also he's a leo i study astrology a little bit i didn't have the data i would have done more on him at the time i'm not doing it now because i don't really want to spend my time on that. But I saw him as someone very different. But I think he was well-groomed for what he did.

I think he was the perfect gentleman. I think he endured as much as he could. I think it got hard for him to stay calm sometimes and keep his cool, keep his wits about him. I just sensed that. Now, did I see anything? No. There were times when Gary and I talked and he just seemed to look right past me. And as a counselor, I'll tell you, the meanest thing you can ever do to any human being is ignore them. And that did get that hurt my heart. I mean, tell me you don't like me, tell me I'm a biatch, tell me I'm naive, I'm sweet, whatever, tell me anything, but don't ignore me. And when someone looks, looks through my being and my soul and my heart, it really gave me the intention that I had to set to be courageous and keep moving forward and looking for love.

But I will never ignore anybody. Love that. I will see you. Thank you. Is that something that you kind of learned throughout your career or is that like personal? You've been ignored before. You hate the way it feels and you just don't ever want to feel that way again. Well, I think it started off as I was a teacher for years and that one of the number one ways to motivate or change behavior is ignoring. Because when you give bad behavior attention, it increases

the incidence of it happening. I saw it with my own children. And as a therapist, I've had some really, really great experiences with my clients and I see them. And I think most of us just want to be seen and want to be cared for, not maybe in a romantic sense, but just let me know that I'm alive and I matter. And I'm going to cry because that really hit me when he did that. And he did it constantly to me. And there was nothing I could do. Ignored you. Yeah.

Well, I'm sorry I had to go through that, April. That's okay. It made me stronger because now I know I will be more forward in telling people, I see you. I know you. Yeah.

You are loved. You are important. And whether you love them or not, whether you want to have sex with them or not, whether you want to go to dinner with them or not, they are still a part of humanity and they are just as important as anyone else. And they deserve that respect and honor. There's no need to be nasty or cold or crude or rude. Or dismissive. Or dismissive.

Yeah. cold or crude or rude or dismissive or dismiss. Yeah. We're getting towards the end of the season. Gary has Teresa, Faith and Leslie left. We're spoiler free here. So,

you know, whatever you do know, we don't want to give anything away. But when you left the house, so to speak, did you have opinions about who you thought the strongest connections that Gary had in the house? And were you surprised by anything you watched back? I thought Leslie was a good fit for him. She really, really cared for him.

Faith really had deep affection for him. Teresa thought she was going to marry him and run off to South or North Carolina, wherever it was, whatever she said. So now thinking about Gary, I think I'm surprised he didn't spend more time with Ellen because she's a very lovely lady and she would be very good to him. And she would have given him a good life style and a good life and and been everything that a 72 year old man needs and wants but you know men sometimes they think in the kitchen area the kitchen area one thing, men are men. I don't care whether they're, that's one thing I learned from the show. Men are men. They're 70 or 17. They're all

driven by hormones. At this point in life, what would you say are the things that remain consistent of like in terms of a successful partnership, you know, whether you're 17 in your twenties, thirties, however old, like that is always going to be important. And what are the things that you would say are more kind of distinct or have emerged when, as you've gotten older and now in this stage of life that are factors in relationships? Yeah. First, and I'll be the first to say it. I don't do it right. So don't do what I say. Don't do what I do what I say. Don't do what I do. I have to be very sexually attracted to somebody that connects me. And after I get there, then people say that's not right. You know, you should go on a date like seven times before you let

somebody go and try that. But for me, it's always been I knew him like before I ever met him. So there has to be some charisma, some some sexual tension. Also, I need to play with somebody. Play is important. Talking, connecting as you get older and say, say your age, you get a house, you have babies. We lose connection. We start to feel like we're roommates. Something goes amiss that we forgot why we first fell in love with each other. And the baby gets in the way. The dog's vomiting. The baby has a fever.

The house payment needs paid. And the budget isn't always lucrative enough to make us live the lifestyle we want. That's part of the process together. If you can laugh through that, if your child can vomit on the pizza you just ordered and you're sitting there going, we're in this together. There's a team and the team is you too. And that's what takes you through. Nobody's leaving. Also, as I get older, I know my word is my bond. I'm not leaving the room. I am Italian. I am from Youngstown, Ohio. We have a lot of different ethnic backgrounds. I may fight. I may say, I'm out. I'm this. And then we'll 20 minutes. Dinner's on the table, guys. Come to the dinner. I don't leave. I don't want to leave. If I'm committed and I love you, you're safe with me. Tell me your secrets. Tell me your darkness. And we'll muddle through together. So I want someone and I think everyone needs to have that safe place. I want their heart to be home in my heart and everyone should have that. have gotten older in life and to see them for who they are, you know, type of thing.

What is something you would say to our audience is maybe a misconception that as you've gotten older, maybe your opinion changed about the elderly or, you know, the stage of life that you're in now. What is something that you learned that you would, you know, speak to younger people about how to treat elderly people or something that maybe frustrates you about how society looks at the elderly or treats the elderly, things like that. Yeah. Now you're going to make me cry. When elderly people retire or they're not working or they lose a partner, everyone else's life goes forward. And normally I would be busy working and I'd have my own life. My life has changed

desperately. When you retire and when you get older and when you don't, you're not, you don't want to be out till 2 a.m. in the morning and you do want to be in bed. Be a friend to us. Don't, we're not the young parent, the young friend, the young buddy that we used to be don't let us disappear you know i i think a lot of us feel like we are unseen you know and and life just keeps going by and we're still unseen i decorate for halloween nobody comes oh i don't know why i mean because we're gonna put your background all over the internet april thank you it's just sad to me that we do get um i think it's because mom was always busy mom always had this and now i don't oh then they'll say well why don't you do pickleball why don't you do this so why don't

you do that i i i need relationships i mean pickleball only, you know, I mean, not to mention a very sad thing, but Matt Perry, he had money. He had fame. He had a pool. He had an assistant. He had everything. And he was probably one of the loneliest people I know. Britney Spears seems very lonely. I wish I could be her assistant and love her and bring her back. I wish I could have been Matt Perry's friend because it's lonely out there. And so don't let looks or money or anything dissuade you from, especially seniors, call us. We want to hear from you. We're waiting on your call.

Okay. What is something that you would like to do or that you think would be fun that you think younger people you know wouldn't think to ask you to do, but you would be totally down to do? I would like to go on a safari and learn to take care of the baby elephants. I would like to fall in love and make love a lot. Yeah. Yeah. I would like to dance the night away. I would like to snuggle on my couch. I just want to be intimately connected to people. And it's not always always sexual i just really love to be loved and i love to give love and now i'm gonna cry again you guys got me it's such an emotional day oh it's an eclipse it's been a full moon mercury's in retrograde or something i'm sure

we're just guessing it's gotta be it's not mercury's not mercury's not she would know since since you're a therapist april and you obviously have years of wisdom i'd love i'd love to get your take on dating culture today you know like what you see out there the conversations younger people are having when it comes to dating what do you notice about people dating out there that you think that you don't get at all and that we're making a big mistake doing? First of all, there's so many things. I am so upset and I have grandchildren. I worry for them. First of all, swipe left, swipe right. What is this? What is this? Ask me on a date on a text. Wait a minute. You're not using any of our senses. I have to hear you. I have to see you. Your vocal cords, your body language. People are dating less,

but they're on social media more. Does that tell us anything? And also girls have lowered the bar. God, my grandma used to say, why buy the milk when you can get the cow for free? I'm curious because I think sometimes there's a sense of that as being used to kind of like constrict people's sexuality, but you're someone who's really sex positive or is like really willing to embrace the role of intimacy early on in a relationship. So can you talk about how those are different things of kind of getting the milk for free? That's a great question. My heart is my compass. If I want to make love to you,

I will make love to you. Ralph, my significant other, I made love to him. First night I went out with him. When I met him, I got in the car and told my daughter I was divorced at the time. I met the man I'm going to spend the rest of my life with. I had no books, but I don't go out and try to get laid or I could give a shit less if some guy doesn't like me because I'm not going to go down on him. Are you kidding me? I mean, and then, you know, even lately, you know, since I'm on The Bachelor, all these guys are on this. Some of the things they say, and like some girls I counsel, well, they sent me a heart emoji. Oh, my God. You can do 20 of those a second.

Come on. Dude, dude, dude. Come on. Get real. Girl. Are you noticing more? are more men sliding into your dms april are people are men reaching out to you they are yeah there's one i saw that would be more my style one out of probably 2 000 oh i can't even go through it you Did you respond to the one? Yes, I did. Because he was good looking and he was gorgeous and he's around my age and he's hot and well-traveled and

he's educated. And yeah, I definitely am looking for love. I just, for me, it's very organic. I mean, either I feel you or I don't. I don't know how people, even when people in the show were saying, say, I love you, Gary. I love you. I'm like, I don't love him. What's that word mean then? I love ice cream.

I love my dog. I love my children. Do we not hold that word any? And when as a therapist, when I say, what is love to you? They don't know. When I say, who are you? They don't know. When I say, where do you see yourself in a year? They know that because it's all peripheral, a new job, a new house, a new car, a new this 10 pounds thinner. But the inside stuff, a new car, a new this, 10 pounds thinner. But the inside stuff, I don't know. They just look at me. Are you a soul? Oh, no one ever asked me about my soul. Well, we better darn get there. What advice do you have to the younger people about how they should handle themselves on a

first, second, or third date, like early dating? What are conversations that you think are important to have that you don't think the younger people are having? First of all, girls, I don't think getting laid is going to get you a guy. If sex was going to get you a guy, every prostitute in the world would be married. Number two, I don't think money guys are going to get you a girl because if money got you a girl, there would never be a million billionaire ever get divorced. So prove it. Prove it to me that those things work. And I will agree.

I will definitely agree. Will money buy you time? Yes. Will sex get you to be an extra? Yeah. When they don't have anything to do, but if their heart's not in it, have self-respect.

When you go out with somebody, be yourself. I talk too much. Don't talk as much as I do. Don't give too much. You don't need to give all of your dirt at one time. But see if there's some magic there. I believe love is magic. I believe in reincarnation.

I believe in synchronicity. And I do believe, though, girls and guys, there are no mistakes in the universe. So if you are out with somebody and you don't even like him, there's something to be learned from it. Maybe something for them to be learned from it. I don't know, but there's a lesson. We're here to learn lessons. So if something doesn't work out, ask yourself this. What is the lesson for me? It doesn't matter what they think. If this is about you, you guys all want to be, you all want it to be about you. But when I say it's about you, they go, I don't want it to be about.

It's all about you. Love yourself. It's good advice. And it's a great, great advice of how to stay present on a date and not ignore someone, even if maybe you're not sexually attracted to them, you know? Because yeah, I think a lot of people go on dates, they sit down, they've already decided whether they are attracted to them or not. And if they're not, they probably check out kind of how you felt on The Bachelor.

Yeah. And in a way that was good for me because then I could have fun with the girls. Then I was just like, you know, I'm staging the house and I'm doing OK. I put a bunny tail. I even had a bunny tail on one of my dresses and Gary looked at it and just went. Now, trust me, some men think I'm a pain in the ass. Someone think I'm eccentric, high maintenance, whatever, blah, blah, blah. But usually i get some

kind of reaction not for anyone listening uh gary gave her essentially no reaction yeah a look and a look away yeah general disinterest how could anyone not pay attention to you april oh well i i haven't actually had that problem much i mean you may not like me you might go oh god i can't stand her but the bunny tail or the you know the ears are on my facebook i just did a chicken dance and because of the chicken thing and i dressed up in a chicken costume and i like to have fun. I like to and I love to make people laugh. Like when I hear you girls giggle in the background, that made this whole experience worthwhile for me. I love you girls.

You're funny. We love you. You're great. I want to hang out with you. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I got all kinds of girls your age. They're like my BFFs.

I mean, I'm like down with it. I can outdance anybody i was at a party years ago with jamie foxx and i'm dancing i'm working it and all these little girls from la are going where did you get those moves i'm like you gotta dance from your gut you know from your kitchen you gotta feel it you know and i didn't have to take my clothes off. I mean, everything was cool. And it is just be you, be yourself and enjoy it. Be your playful self. Let your inner child out.

Mine is out. Other than going on the Golden Bachelor, what's the most exciting story of your life? Oh, we're going to go there. The most exciting story of my life is, has to be the book, Working My Way Back, Working My Way Back to Me, about my relationship with Frankie Valli of the Four Seasons. You had a relationship with Frankie Valli of the Four Seasons? I thought you were pulling it out. I didn't know this. No, but I was truly, I asked the question hoping that there would be some sort of celebrity in there. So in retrospect, I wish I, and I would like to apologize now to him. I wish I wouldn't have

written the book. I did it. I was much younger. I was much more egocentric. I was doing it probably to punish him or to get his attention, maybe not to punish him, but I wanted his attention. I wanted him to know that he hurt my feelings. It was never written in the way that it was perceived. And that breaks my heart every day. And it did teach me to be careful what I say. Interesting. Interesting. So what did it teach you or maybe what advice do you have for people who get out of relationships? Because relationships are messy, they hurt, you know, and there's the days that follow the breakup and messy, they hurt, you know, and there's the days that follow the breakup and there's the weeks, you know, and even after maybe a year goes by,

there might be things that you haven't quite processed. Sounds like maybe your advice to younger you would have been to maybe not kiss and tell as much, or I guess what's the advice that people can lean on? I would have written. And then I would have put it away and then I would have waited and maybe locked it away. Um, but you know, women, there's nothing worse than a woman's scorn. I mean, you get a woman pissed off. Oh God, you you're done. I mean, uh, one time I was mad at Ralph and I put my high heels in his mailbox. I don't, I mean, I just, you know, when you're in love I mean, one time I was mad at Ralph and I put my high heels in his mailbox. I don't, I mean, I just, you know, when you're in love, you do nutty things. And if you are hurting, sit with that pain. We all want to push the pain away. Go to the gym, grab coffee, do this,

do this, go out, get someone new, rebound, rebound. Sit with that pain and see what it has to say. It has a lot to say. And once again, don't project it onto someone else. This wasn't about Frankie. This wasn't about anything. If anything, it was about me and my relationship with my mother and my early childhood trauma. But you would have to read the book through that lens to see that. And of course, as we know, the press doesn't like to do those kinds of things. They like the things that are going to hurt people and be dazzling. And I, um, my intention was never, ever, ever to hurt someone who had been such a big part of my world. That's good advice. Uh, do we have any other questions for april before we get to texting office hours the ankle show oh or fake broken ankle was it fake

i liked the move i did it quite well i think people were saying it was like a meryl street moment it was great some acting skills in me i wanted to get the attention. I'm still trying. I'm still trying. I'm thinking, you know, also I do have an ego. I try to keep her, you know, kind of contained, but I wanted to get some reaction. Tell me you hate me. Do something. I mean, roll your, do something. So I thought, what, what can I do? I can try the damsel in distress. You know, I mean, can I do? I can try the damsel in distress. You know, I mean, sometimes a girl's got to do what she's got to do, but I did hurt my ankle. You did. It was a real, you really hurt it. Well, not then, but I did hurt it then. I mean, I fell on purpose, but while I was falling on purpose, I moved it out of joints. And now I go to my chiropractor and he just like pushes it in and it cracks like, Oh no. Yeah. So that's why stars have what stand-ins and all those kinds of people

to do their work. Stunt doubles. Yeah. Yes. I'll, I'll, I'll, uh, I'd have to get one of those. Maybe not. Hey, why not? Hey, you do your own stunts. Yeah, I do all of myself, everything. On the topic of advice, because that's what we're about to give. Is there one piece of advice that kind of came out of your mouth during therapy that you were like, wow, that's really good, or just something that you're especially proud of that you were able to communicate to another person? You have done nothing wrong. You are here for life experience. You are here to learn. You are okay. Beautiful. Really beautiful. Yeah. I think April's had a couple of nuggets that I'm going to go back and remember for sure. I might

steal some of your lines, April, if that's okay. You can steal them. I'm not sure I'll give you credit though. Are you ready to give a caller some relationship advice? Yeah, this is going to be so much fun. Let's rock. All right, let's do it. I'll be tender. Rocket money. Hey, it's holiday season. You know it. We love it. And it's time to maybe put a little savings away. Well, the easiest way to save money is by not wasting money. And I'm here to tell you that you're probably wasting money you don't even realize.

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for a whopping cash prize. This season's cutthroat missions are next level, just like whatever Alan Cumming pulls out of his brilliantly eccentric wardrobe. One thing is for sure, these 21 players will do anything to avoid a plot in Alan's graveyard. Find out why critics and audiences alike are raving about the Emmy award-winning series. The New York Times is calling it a murder mystery with clothes to die for and Vox adding that it should be your new reality TV obsession. We are certainly obsessed. Stream every episode of Traders Now only on Peacock. How's it going? Going good. My name is Jackie. I'm 27 and my mom is leveraging my wedding because my boyfriend and I moved in together. Okay. What do you mean by leveraging?

Well, a little background. So my boyfriend and I have been dating for a little over a year. Things are going great. And I was kind of hesitant to tell my mom who has she's just very Catholic very strong values that we moved in together and so I finally did that and she asked me what my expectations were and I said what do you mean expectations and she says well if you're wanting us to throw you guys a wedding, you know that I don't agree with that. And so essentially, she said that she wouldn't be comfortable paying for my wedding since we moved in together before we got engaged. And that's something we've literally talked about my entire life. So it just came as a bit of a surprise, I would say. Okay. April, do you have any questions?

Yeah, I'm sorry. I really am, Jackie. You know, people from an older generation really misinterpret what love is. Love is unconditional. Love is not power. Love is not money. Love is not power love is not money love is not greed um if you and this gentleman love each other i would just say thanks mom i understand we'll do it ourselves and a marriage doesn't have to

be a big event in fact some of the shortest marriages are the ones that were the biggest, most glamorous shindig. So that has nothing to do with your love. I think your mom loves her the best, loves you the best she knows how, but it falls really short from what you deserve. And you deserve to have your needs met, which is making a bond to the man that you love without any stress. Life is stressful enough. So I would, in my retrospect, I would plan a little wedding

and then I would do it myself and of course invite her. So I agree with a lot of that. But the crazy thing is, is that we are not even engaged. Like there is no wedding yet. And so the question that I have is more so like damage control on how I can kind of rectify this relationship and like ask more questions around the topic and maybe try to see more eye to eye because that's what's so insane to me is that we're not engaged. We're not even ready to get married, but it's this almost far reach forward in the future. And we have a great relationship. So I'm just, that's kind of where I'm stuck. April, I'm curious what you think I'm about to say, but because you obviously have

the wisdom, but kind of like to what April said, the fact that you aren't engaged or close to it really matters. I mean, I think more than anything, this is a power play by your mom, kind of like what April said, you know, it's, she has, she has the power because she's your mom. She's used to telling you what she thinks and sharing her opinion and having you having it really impact your decisions. Like I think every parent is used to that. And I think that's something as their kids get into adulthood, they have to make adjustments on because it's kind of like, hey, you know, I think some parents have a hard time seeing their kids as adults, you know, sometimes and they struggle with that. And I think it's just, it's like the only card your mom has left to play you

know because you're not a kid anymore you don't live with her and so yeah it goes against her beliefs and she's disappointed but i think more than anything you showing your mom through your actions with your boyfriend is the way she's going to come around and this is kind of like you've heard me say before in other shows it it's like she's, this is her adult temper tantrum. You know, she's acting out. And I think, and April said this earlier on the episode, the best way to handle someone acting out in bad behavior is to not acknowledge it almost. So I wouldn't negotiate with your mom or try to convince, you're not going to convince

your mom to change her whole belief system. The way she's going to change her point of view is to see how much you two love each other, the healthiness of the relationship, how he treats you in difficult situations, how you make each other feel. And to April's point, if you just say, that's okay, mom, if we do end up getting married someday, as much as I'd love you and dad to be there, and obviously I'd love your support, whether it's through your love or through your pocketbook, I'm always going to welcome that, but I'm going to marry the man I want to marry and we're going to do it our way, you know, and I hope that you support that however way that is. And I think eventually if you just are consistent in your

relationship, she'll come around. I don't think convincing her is going to do the trick. I think it's showing her what your relationship is that will really make a difference. Totally. And I think that's what surprised me the most is because, you know, up until now, she's shown nothing but support for our relationship. She's told me like in the past, she's like, I'm just really happy that you guys are, you know, taking it slow and doing it right. And, you know, whatever that means to her, I don't really know. But like, the whole thing is that the tone changed once I told her the decision that I made. And I did tell her I had the utmost confidence.

I told her, you know, we both believe this is the right decision for us. We didn't make it lightly. You know, I kind of, I know how you stand, but I just wanted to let you know, because, you know, you're my mom, and I wanted you to be involved. But the other thing too, is that, you know, it just it felt like the whole tone in our relationship had changed since then. Like, I didn't talk to her for a few days. And then we finally started talking again, just like, like we do every day. But it just feels like with the holidays coming up, I'm just nervous because I don't want my boyfriend to feel uncomfortable coming home. And it just feels like almost the elephant in the room. And if letting time passes the answer, fine. But it is just a little bit awkward. And so that's what I'm... No, I don't know if there's anything you're going to be able to do in the short term to

eliminate the awkwardness. I think the best thing you guys can do is not show them that it's getting to you guys, because that's what they're trying to do. They're trying to... That's why she's not reaching out to you. That's why she's changing her behavior. It's a penance. And the more you respond to her punishing you, the more she's going to think it's working and she'll do more of it. Which I'm glad that I haven't said anything else that I have though, because the only thing that I've said to her after is like, hey, are you mad at me? Are we okay? And she goes, oh no, no, we're good. But that's the only kind of inkling that I've given her that I've been

thinking about it. Other than that, I've just really have tried to let it go like in our conversation. So yeah, I don't know. I just want to make sure that like I'm doing the right thing and not ignoring something that like I should be talking about. But if giving it time is the answer, then that would be it. First of all, you're not engaged yet, right? So this is kind of, or is, are you going to get a ring for, I mean, is there something we don't know that's happening? No, it's, it's really my first serious relationship. It's I've never have lived with any, I've never lived with anybody before. And I think there's a bit of comparison going with, you know, other people that we know and family friends and things like that, that,

you know, one of my mom's like quotes that she always says is, I never want you guys to end up like so and so because they've been dating for X amount of years, and, you know, nothing's happening. And it's, it's something that she talks about all the time of just using this other couple as an example. But we're nowhere close to what they're doing. We have our own path. And we do want to get engaged and get married in the next few years, but we're just not there yet. And so for her to even bring up the wedding was just so confusing to me because it is something that I want, but just not right now. And so with her knowing that it was just confusing

that she brought it up to kind of spite me, even though I do feel like I'm making like a very mature decision for myself. One thing you said that really stuck out in my mind is this is the first serious relationship you've had in this aspect. So your mom is feeling threatened herself, like she's being pushed to the side a little. And that does happen. If you would get married, you would cleave your husband, blah, blah, blah. And it would be you two against the world. Doesn't mean you don't love your mom, but your mom is feeling hurt.

Basically, under what all this power stuff, all this money stuff, it's nothing more than hurt. And I think if there's two ways you can handle this and you use your own intuition, whatever resonates with you, always do that no matter who tells you anything. Doesn't resonate, don't do it. But push it aside through the holidays. We're not even thinking about that yet. Let's just have a good time. through the holidays. We're not even thinking about that yet. Let's just have a good time. But when it is time, have a good conversation with her. Mom, I love you. I will always be my mommy. And, you know, I know this is the first time I've had a serious relationship and it may be a little shocking for all of us. It's shocking for me. I would say I'm shocked. I hear I find this guy and now I'm living with him. I can imagine

what you're thinking, mom. You know, remember when you talk to someone to with your mom, try to say two nice things before you get to the problem. And then if you want, I want to talk to her, always say, is this a good time to talk? Because sometimes it's not a good time. So is this a good time to talk? Then, Mama, you know I love you. Always be your little girl. And I am so shocked and scared, too, that I'm in this relationship. I really need your support. You'll always be my mom.

Deescalator. Pull her in in a different avenue. de-escalate her pull her in in a different avenue and then i would even say if she starts to get a little snarky um say we're not even at that point yet mom just give me a hug i need you i need your help i love you and just let it de-escalate let her think about it a while yeah she just she's feeling kind of pushed to the side by you you know know, left out. It's not easy being a mom. We change your diaper. We pick up your spit. We take you to school. We do your homework. We do things. Then all of a sudden you all go, bye, get a life. I did have a life before you. And now I don't. life before you. And now I don't. So from a mom's perspective, yeah, she's using power.

Yes, she's being salty. Yes, she's being manipulative. But underneath it, she's hurt and scared. Yeah, you know, and I did tell her, I told her, you know, being a little bit vulnerable, I was like, I was afraid to talk to you about this, but now that I have, like, it kind of confirms what I was afraid of because you're not offering a lot of grace for me. And I don't know, it just, yeah, I think that was like the biggest hurt, but I think that is like good advice on how to approach it. And I will be seeing them like kind of soon. We don't live in the same city or anything. So yeah, I'll definitely try to use that. I hate that my daughter's not in the same city or anything so yeah i'll definitely try to use that i hate that my daughter's not in the same city i want to why do you do that i'm teasing see it's just life we're used to living and breathing for our children and then they breathe on their own and

we're happy so we look like we're, but a lot of us have mixed emotions. We're all humans having mixed emotions. We're all messed up. We're all, it's havoc. I've never been a mother before. I've never been a mother that loses a daughter. I've never been a mother that wants to have a daughter and get married. This is what your mom's thinking. How the hell do I manage this? She's all over in another city. I don't know what the hell's going on. Maybe just piggybacking off what April said, maybe just like surprise her with a random call or a text message that says something like, Hey mom, I just want to say how appreciative I am that you're my mom. You've taught me so much. You've done this. You've done that. I know that

sometimes I do things that you might not agree with, but I do want to know that I'm so lucky to have you as a mother. I owe so much to you. You've taught me so many amazing things. Just make her feel appreciated. And then you can throw in the, kind of like April said, there will be times I don't do things that you agree with, but just know that i appreciate all the things you've taught me because without them i don't know where i'd be you know type of thing and i think that'll go a long way yeah i think with her it would go a long way and like i said i will be seeing her within the next few months anyways so yeah i think better yeah there so there there's definitely room for a conversation. And we do have a great relationship. I think I was just like jarred by the whole thing of like, it just felt like all of a

sudden, like I made a decision and then I was like, kind of shamed for it. And so it just felt icky. It felt so icky. And like, where do you go from there? And it's just like, just lead with love. We try to give you everything you live. We, you know, we live for you. And so when someone does, a parent does say, no, you guys are shell shocked.

They're like, nobody says no to me. I'm your pride and joy. I'm not, I'm not agreeing with anything she said, but you get the drift. Totally. Yeah. Cause obviously it's your mom. You're not going to break up with her. You just, all you can do is try to understand where she's coming from and vice versa and go

from there just uh one thing i don't know what april has what she thinks about this but if you're thinking about delivery nothing will trigger someone more than saying to them i was worried you were going to do this and you fucking did it and you're exactly who i thought you were and it's not good like you want to be careful about that type of language because it's that you know that when your mom hears that it's like you basically what she heard is i thought you sucked and you confirmed it you know right i would i mean go the In hindsight, obviously that wasn't like the nicest thing to say, but in that conversation, that's just like kind of out ended. But the other thing too,

is that I haven't even like really talked to my dad about it. Like we just, we have a great relationship too, but I just haven't like really known how to like approach the topic. Like knowing that they, they've obviously talked about it, but like I like, do I need to,'t think so like a mom and me thing if your dad wants to bring it up to you you can bring it up to you you know to your point you're not even engaged yet it's not going to change your decision so you're not really asking his permission so if he wants to bring it up sure i mean i don't know if april has to say about that but i don't think so yeah

if dad wants to bring it up, but you're not engaged yet. So there's no date. There's no nothing. I would set the groundwork for just mending mom's inferior feelings of parenting because we are, we all feel like we're not great parents and we give you everything. And, and it just, it just the human experience. So she needs to go easy on you. I mean, she shouldn't use money as a power trip. That's not real love. I agree, but just love her through

it. And you don't want, you're not like, like he said, you're not losing her. She's not going anywhere. Just, I want your wedding day to be magnificent in every way with no, no more stress than a wedding already is. So you just be, be loving and love her. All right. Well, hopefully that was helpful. No, it was super helpful. Again, it's just like something that I've been sitting on for a while. And I think things become like harder when, you know, you don't know what to say. And so, yeah, I think that gives me like a little bit of leveling and just like ground to stand on next time I talk to her but also not like blowing it up into something that it's not because that's what I didn't like what she did the first

time so I don't want to do that as well but yeah I mean it's always going to be unsettling when we know our parents are disappointed in us and we want you know we're always going to want their approval so it's a challenge and when you're like trying to do everything else like right and you're making good decisions and then it's just one thing that like goes the wrong way it is a little discouraging but she'll get over it whatever well you can see that you love your mom very much and that's not going to change and don't let it change i think if you hit her with how much you mean to me and how grateful I am of all the things you've done for me as a mother, and I value all the things you've taught me, and it's made me the woman I am today,

will go a long way with mom. True. Very true. I love you. Don't worry about the wedding, baby. I whatever you need i i got it i don't want you to be happy just call me more oh my god tell me your sister all right thank you guys all right thank you thank you so much i hope it i hope it helps thank you yeah i loved your season love your show thanks all right thanks so much keep us posted i will yeah i plan on talking to her soon and yeah i just don't want to make any more drama so hopefully that nice conversation will go a long way great all right good luck keep us posted all right bye-bye thanks bye guys april this has been so much fun. Thank you so much. I really appreciate it.

I hope I was helpful and gave a little insight as well as had a good time. And I wish you guys a happy holiday, safe season. Likewise. If you need me again. We'll let you know. You're an absolute delight. Thank you for all the words of wisdom. It was truly so much fun to talk with you.

Stay well. If you're ever in LA, let us know. Yeah, let us know, April. We'll go dancing. Oh, yeah. I'm going to be there. Okay. Look us up.

Bye. Bye-bye. Bye. All right. Well, thanks for listening, guys. We had so much fun talking with April. I hope you guys did, too. Don't forget to send in those questions

at asknickatthevilefiles.com for all things texting, office hours, Ask Nick, mediation, you know the drill. Remember, we are back next week. We have a huge episode. We can't really tell you about it yet, but it's going to drop next Wednesday. Going deeper next week, it's going to drop Wednesday, not

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until then bye