The Viall Files - E663 Ask Nick - Should We Get Married for a Visa?

Episode Date: November 6, 2023

Welcome back to another episode of The Viall Files: Ask Nick Edition! We’re back to answer your burning questions about the world of dating and relationships. Before getting to our callers, we discuss jobs we missed out on and a restaurant’s policy on charging a surcharge for “bad parenting.” We also read a submission from a writer-iner who asked a friend to be a flower girl in her wedding. She’s having a small wedding party, and wanted to include her work friend and thought this would be a nice way to do so. However, the friend was aghast at the suggestion of being a 27-year old flower girl. We then get to our callers.  Our first caller wants to break up with her boyfriend, but hasn’t yet because she’s not sure how to handle the financial component. She’s currently unemployed as she studies for the BAR exam, so he pays for most aspects in her life, but she’s not sure if she can continue in the relationship despite this. Our second callers are wondering if they should continue their pattern of being unhinged, and get married. They’ve only been dating for a year and have already hit many relationship milestones, like moving in together and potentially buying a house. They’re wondering if they should hit the next milestone by getting married in order to obtain a Visa. Our final caller has a crush on her male friend, and is trying to figure out if he’s into her. Their mutual friend group is going on a trip soon, and they’ll be sharing a hotel room, and she wants to start putting out feelers if he might be interested in being more than friends. We help her craft an Instagram DM to send to him.  “This is a classic #BookTok scenario.”  Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  Join us for our new LIVE show on Thursdays at 9PM ET/6PM PT on Amp, available in the Apple app store and https://www.onamp.com for Android listeners. To Order Nick’s Book Go To: https://www.viallfiles.com  If you would like to get some texting advice on Office Hours send an email to [e-mail] with “Texting Office Hours” in the subject line!  To advertise on the show, contact [e-mail] or visit https://www.advertisecast.com/TheViallFiles  THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Rakuten - Rakuten helps you save big on whatever you’re buying for the holidays. Join for free at https://www.rakuten.com or get the Rakuten App.  Drizly - Download the Drizly app or go to https://www.Drizly.com today to discover the Go-to app for alcohol delivery. ZocDoc - Go to https://www.ZocDoc.com/VIALL and download the Zocdoc app for FREE. Then find and book a top-rated doctor today. Paired - Head to https://www.Paired.com/VIALL to get a 7-day free trial and 25% off if you sign up for a subscription. Connect with your partner every day using Paired. A happier relationship starts here! Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @alison.vandam @liffordthebigreddog @dereklanerussell @genevievegoodman

you're crazy what's going on everybody welcome back to another episode of the vile files ask nick edition i'm your host nick joined by the household of ali amanda derrick gonna be everyone in the room what's going on guys what no i just just you sounded wistful wistful yeah what does wistful mean like kind of dreamy nostalgic slightly sort of removed remove longing I don't know but kind of regretful longing oh

are you googling it? yeah Jen googled it I thought it positive at first I'm like oh yeah you know reminiscing of like wistful of what could have been the other people I didn't hire

oh yeah yikes shout out to that one girl way back when where is she now? I ran into one at din tai feng once you did wait what do you yeah one one of the ones he didn't hire well but when i hired the two of you there was a third right and you ran into at the time was kind of my like my number one oh you've told me this yeah and then like but the two of you i thought as a team as a team two of you made me want to hire two people i was only i'm

only gonna hire one that's oh that's tough to be like the top but not a teammate but you know it was my first time hiring anyone so i was kind of flipping coins. Yeah, I do think we got rewarded for it. They were all worked out. I'm sure she's doing great. It's like it just goes to show you that if you ever had a disappointing thing where you didn't get the job, it could be because they were like, you're too well-rounded and multifaceted. And I'm actually going to hire two people who balance each other out better. Yeah, maybe that was it.

Just goes to show you never really know. Anyway, what's going on? Wistful learned that today regretfully longing wait was there ever a job you applied to and didn't get that you really wanted i'm sure yeah any that like come to mind now though there was like a pharmaceutical sales job that i really wanted to get i want i wanted to get into pharma sales way back when. Glad I didn't. Especially now all the movies that are coming out about like the opioid epidemic. Oh, yeah. Are those like the people who go to the doctor's offices themselves? I mean, not every pharma job is selling opioids and pain medicine. I mean, I forgot the type of ones that I was potentially going to sell. but there's a reason why they hire former athletes in a certain type of

looking man and woman, because at the end of the day, the thought processes, doctors tend to be a little nerdier and it's about like wanting to hang out with them, you know? So doctors are kind of like an ex athlete. They used to watch on a college football game or a,

you know, an attractive associate that they don't mind like having lunch with. Yeah. Lunch with literally. And it's really just, that's why I was in med device sales and that's why I got out of it. Did that for a year and a half. I'm like,

this isn't sales. This is something else i was just like well med device was had its own other problem i was like basically teaching doctors how to bill for insurance and if i could convince a doctor that they could bill for it and make a profit they would use it so i was like teaching him like CPT codes and things like that. It wasn't, there was a little, there was less medicine involved than I was, than I anticipated. Sure. Sure. And I didn't feel like I was actually accomplishing what I was hoping to accomplish.

My mom, because of her time as a doctor, we had all these like random that like the kind of merch that like med device salesmen would like leave like we had all these like creams i remember of like and it was like i don't know it was just very that we had a prozac pen growing up it's stuff where i'm like low-key i feel like people would wear like i feel like people would wear a prozac hat you know maybe i feel like it's coming back around they can do that now but yeah but it's like the medical in earnest swag of the 90s, I feel like would be pretty trendy. Yeah.

So that came to mind. I'm sure there's some other ones too. Jen, did you ever have like a job that you applied for and really wanted or like a different version of you has in a different life you're now living? I was applying for this job when I was applying for this one and it was in New York and so I was like oh that you know would probably be easier and it was the assistant to someone

who worked on SNL and I was like oh the assistant to someone who worked on SNL I'm not saying but yes and they're on it they're on it but they ghosted me it's too bad after would you have taken a really long time i don't know actually i don't know wait they full ghosted after like

yeah like a really long time how many interviews did you have with them like so many oh and it was like they were like waited weeks and i was like oh're done. And then all of a sudden they'd come out of the woodwork and be like, hey, sorry about that. Can you meet tomorrow? And I'd be like, yeah. And then it was a really long time. And I was like, oh, they're fully ghosting me. But I feel like one day they're going to message me and be like, hey, do you want to call tomorrow? Like my dude, it's been like six months.

There's a part of me and I'm mostly I'm kidding. There's a part of me that wishes that was your first job and this was your second job. What do you mean? Because he sounds like he or she sounds like a nightmare to work for. Could you imagine? Something I felt I feel frustrated by is when people have no idea, like no appreciation for like what it means to be applying for a job especially when you go to a later round and you've had interviews and then there's like no consideration of like ghosting or just like not being communicative at all but then it's like i realize it's like not because people

are being malicious they're just like so fucking busy and that's why they need support in the first place kind of thing i don't know i think you're being too empathetic i've never ghosted someone i interviewed yeah that's fair. But sometimes it's nice because I feel like it's like with dating where it's like when you go on a date and then you get a nice friend out of it. I feel like that happens with job interviews sometimes where you're like, oh, ultimately you're going to hire someone with four more years experience, but we're going to get coffee every nine months and have a... Who are you getting coffee with? I don't do that. Didn't hire you?

Occasionally, yeah. I was better about it. Honestly, before this job kind of picked up, I feel like I was much better about the networking thing. I hear you on that. Listen, I don't think you should ever burn bridges, for sure. But being an assistant to someone in entertainment, it's a grind.

Yeah. It's a grind. They're not big on workday hours or you know your schedule really no i also and i love now because so many of my friends are assistants like i love forever holding grudges against the people who are mean to their assistants like i'm not gonna air out dirty laundry but there are some comedians where i'm like whenever it comes up in conversation, I'm like, they're shitty to their assistant. And I won't say it on the podcast because that feels like next level. But it is kind of satisfying being like, yeah. Is anyone good to their assistants? I had an assistant job before this and it was

awful. And her best friend hired my friend and she's wonderful to her assistant. And I'm like, how does that make sense how are they best friends then that's if your best friend was kind of shitty to their assistant would you say something well i don't think she realized yeah but like if you like if you're like let's say you're in your like 30s like much further along especially having been an assistant adults will throw temper tantrums i feel like that's the biggest takeaway from hollywood absolutely did you see on the temper tantrum topic. I feel like that's the biggest takeaway from Hollywood. Did you see on the temper tantrum topic, that they've started charging a $50 fee

for parents who have noisy kids at restaurants? Who's they? I think it's just one restaurant. Okay. Is this the thing that's happening in all restaurants? We don't know. We don't know. It could be sweeping the nation.

I don't know. I feel like- By the time this airs. Part of me thinks it's great. Part of me as an expecting father, it's great until it happens to you and then you're like, fuck you. Don't tell me I parent my... Parent my kid.

But the crazy thing is that the surcharge isn't for noisy kids. This is in quotes, adult surcharge for adults unable to parent. That's so mean. Who is judging this? Like most servers are in their like early to mid 20s. There's obviously exceptions to that. There's some longtime industry people. But are like the 20 something typical servers the enforcers of who is properly parenting or not?

I think it's like a shift manager or general manager who's had it. Like, you know, it's someone who's not making like the huge bucks, but has a lot of seniority. Whether they even if they are 27, they are like hardened, like a hardened veteran of the restaurant industry. What kind of restaurant was this, Genevieve? Maybe it's on the link. It seems like you can click it. Oh, Toccoa. Oh. Oh. Oh, Riverside Dining. Oh, it's kind of restaurant was this, Genevieve? Maybe it's on the link. It seems like you can click it. Oh, Takoa. Oh. Oh. Oh. Riverside Dining. Oh, it's kind of gorgeous.

Feels like a fine dining experience. I mean, let's look at the menu. Let's look at the pricing. There's a fish and cow on the website. I mean, stuffed crab is $30. That seems like a pretty decent price for crab. But we are in LA. Domestic domestic shrimp for 19 feels like a steal

the sides are four i feel like the sides here would be like at least 7.95 yeah how many dollar signs is next to the yelp review two only two well on google there were two two okay so it's mid oh this review is 2.7 maybe from all the people's are people yelp let's look i wouldn't be shocked if this place poisoned the food oh my god so how are parents supposed to teach their children to act in public without ever bringing their kids in public instead of imposing the consequence of your ignorance of parenting understanding or knowledge on others try reading a book or watching some YouTube videos. And that comment came out right after the article.

Yeah. So it's potentially a Schwartz and Sandy situation where the reviews have to do with more of a philosophical. I could picture Tom Schwartz charging a couple of parents 50 bucks because he's annoyed by their kids. I could not picture Tom Schwartz. I could picture Tom Sandoval. Yeah. That's what I mean. Sandoval. No, Schwartz would play. I feel like Schwartz would babysit. Yeah, Schwartz would play. parents 50 bucks because he's annoyed by their kids i could not picture tom schwartz i could picture sandoval yeah sandoval no shorts are like babysit yeah sandoval might he'd like go buy some

crayons across the street maybe that's not fair i don't know but i could picture it yeah i hear what you're saying though about how like you kind of see both sides of it where you're like on one hand like i do think sometimes there are some parents who it feels like they go above and beyond to be inconsiderate in terms of like not even trying like yeah when they're like there and they're just like yeah it's my kids i don't know what i'm supposed to do yeah and their kid is like making a huge mess for everyone and they don't care and they're like why don't you clean up it's your job and they're clearly not like willing to parent or like enforce some rules.

If your kid's throwing a temper tantrum in public, I'm not going to let my kid just act out. There'll be some consequences. Yeah. Right? You got to do your best. I feel like that's the thing. As long as the parent's trying, I don't really judge them. Yeah.

If there's a parent sitting there and just not really kind of ignoring their kid while they're eating their food and while everyone else has to deal with the kid they're ignoring. Yeah, I'd be pissed. But on the flip side, tough being a parent, you know, going out. I feel like babysitting is expensive. I feel like that's something we're kind of reckoning with between like this and like the like the mom shaming like birthday cake incident and the airplane stuff like it feels like there's kind of a lot of questions about like parenting in the new age probably yeah because i feel like there's less and less people becoming parents right i don't know what the stats are but i'm guessing you know as we where that birth rate at we dive in more into an individualistic

society and there's a lot more conversations about being the main character and investing in yourself and not rushing into marriage. And there's more to life than having kids, which for a lot of people all might be true. But yeah, there's maybe a bigger divide between adult people who aren't parents and adult people who are. And the divide on what that should look like i also think part of it might because i had an ex who really didn't want kids that's the ex and it was really like he would refer to parents as breeders like he really like he really hated kids he did no he like he didn't mind not the well-behaved ones but like whenever they were like if there was like a parent who was like being kind of i guess like

entitled in his mind or who is what would an entitled parent look like in his mind do you think like insisting to cut the line in the bathroom with a kid like that kind of thing where it's like okay on one hand i see that like if your kid insisting to cut the line with the kid like that kind of thing and it's to cut the line with the kid like that kind of thing and it's one of those things where i feel like he probably would have offered if he noticed it's just like the like i think he he felt frustrated sometimes that like parents i think sometimes feel stretched thin and are like kind of desperate like i need this and instead of it kind of being like a human to human exchange i think sometimes it can just be kind of like an entitlement like i'm more important than you thing was how it rubbed off on him

can't i can't say i'm with your ex-boyfriend here i mean i'm not either but i mean this reminds me of the whole like selfish people are always the ones who call other people selfish and entitled people are always thinking everyone else is entitled i'm not saying he is selfish or entitled but again when a little kid is doing the whole i got a pee dance and he's in line at a game and he is annoyed because some panicked parent that didn't happen i more just mean like that kind of thing you know what i like or like i one thing that did happen was like a kid was really kicking his seat on a plane. And he didn't say anything. He wasn't rude or confrontational about it.

But he was just like, are you fucking kidding me? He turned around? Yeah, I mean, we were sitting on a plane. And these two kids were just kicking the seats. Not at first. But afterwards, I just kind of turned around and looked at them. And I said, can you please stop? And they did.

Yeah, that's good. Cause it's scary if a stranger tells you that. Yeah. It was more like me looking at them, did that enough? And I was nice and calm, but, and that was a time where the parents were just like not giving a fuck. Right. They were neck, they were on the, the kids were all in one row and they were in the separate

row and like the kids were just doing whatever the fuck they wanted. I would never let my kid do that. I mean, please stop kicking that person's seat, you know? So, yeah, there is a balance, but... Because I think it feels like in a lot of places in culture, like, parenting is much more opt-in now than it was before to what you were saying of how it's not just this required, like, of course you are going to get married, have kids,

like, go on this specific life course. Like, there's a lot more, like... What it means to be traditional, I think, has gotten a lot more, like, of course you are going to get married, have kids, like go on this specific life course. Like there's a lot more like, like true what it means to be traditional, I think has gotten a lot more like expansive. And I think because of that, there's much more of like a, it's not like we all have this like, oh, yep. We are all stuck doing this, stuck in this crazy parenting cycle. It's like, no, you chose to do this and you're doing a bad job in this moment or it's inconveniencing me in this moment.

Yeah. I just don't think any non-parents ever have a right to judge a parent. Even if they might be right. I'm just saying in that scenario I had the right to be annoyed per se but I don't know.

I'm not in a position to say whether they were good parents or bad parents. Five years from now I might be like you know what? I don't give a shit. I'm never gonna see this guy again. Kick his seat. Who gives a fuck? You know, I don't know.

Maybe. I hope I don't. Well, it's especially easy with parents to understand how stressed it, stressful it is, especially with like anything travel related. It's like, dear God, I was stressed and I'm a single woman alone at this airport. Yeah, I don't know.

I gotta say, but traveling dogs pretty easy so far i piss a lot of people off i think that yeah yeah um well get the right dogs yeah you know get the right kids get the right kid uh what's our writer and her have to say genevieve um it's wedding related so she says i'm getting married next september we're doing a small budget-friendly wedding with a small party. And so because of that, I have close friends who won't be in it. But before I got engaged, I mentioned to one of my friends, let's call her Monica, that my wedding party was small. So I was thinking of asking her to be the flower girl. She seemed very thrown off by this idea and eventually asked me if I thought it was

a joke. I was shocked. I told her, of course not. I explained that the wedding is small and I wanted to include her. As a side note, this friend is very bubbly, and when I thought of her, I truly thought of flowers and thought she'd have fun with this role. My fiancé proposed about a month ago, and I haven't brought up the role again since. Based off a conversation I had with a mutual friend, I can tell Monica is not into the idea and thinks it's so bizarre I'd ask a 27-year-old be a flower girl i understand if you've never heard of an adult flower girl and that the ask might be weird but at the same time i have heard of it and it was truly just doing something as a nice gesture her reaction left a bad taste in my mouth this friend does have a tendency to act selfishly we

work together and this isn't the first time i felt a lack of understanding from her i'm not sure what to do now because i feel this tinge of animosity it's probably been building from other situations this is a really good one i feel like this is such a good pick it's a really nuanced issue yeah a great one it's a really good one uh what do you think um well while you're thinking about it i'll tell you what i think i was like by all means, kick it off. Well, it sounds like the way she wrote it was she makes it seem

like her intention of this whole thing was to try to make the friend feel included. Yes. It was less about wanting a flower girl or certainly

an adult flower girl. It was like, I need to find a role for Monica. What can we make her? A flower girl. Well, Monica doesn't want to be a flower girl. It was like, I need to find a role for Monica. What can we make her? A flower girl. Well, Monica doesn't want to be a flower girl. So it's one of those things where the problem has solved itself unless she, the writer in her, makes it a bigger problem. Now, granted, the writer in her has referenced at the end of the letter that maybe this is just a continuation

of the dynamic of our friendship that ultimately I i'm maybe not in love with so ultimately her asking her to be a flower girl and then how she responded is like big picture like maybe you do need to evaluate this friendship that's fair but in terms of solving the wedding problem it has solved itself unless she is pot committed to having an adult flower girl at her wedding. Doesn't sound like she is. And if your friend doesn't want to be the flower girl, then she doesn't have to be the flower girl. Unless she's like, my friend wants to be included and has a certain expectation of what that

role is. Well, you don't want her to be the maid of honor or one of the flower girls or bridesmaids or whatever it's called. You do have a wedding coming up. Yeah, sure. Yeah. But you know what I'm saying? Oh my God, wait. Do you know who your flower girl is going to be?

My flower girl? Yeah. No. It could be Monica. It could be Monica. It could be Monica. I'm going to make Allie do it. Fuck yeah.

Allie would love that. See, Monica Monica someone likes it I don't know we haven't had that discussion yeah I will say like upon reading this I'm like

oh that is kind of like my reaction is that I'm like fun to like make it into an adult role like I understand that it is traditionally

like a little girls thing but like I think I would be so like I would be flattered if a friend was like hey I want you to do this thing. And I think you have the personality to pull it off and be like, fuck, yeah, give me the pedals. Clearly, this isn't a friend who's kind of a go with it type of friend.

Yeah. Probably not our personality. So you can decide right or inner if that's the type of friend you want. You know, I just think as we get older, right, we learn who our friends are so to speak and when we're younger we base our friendships off of common interests you know being a part of similar communities the same church the same school the same you know uh extracurricular activities you know liking the same boys you know liking the same girls stuff like that if you were friends with the girls that liked the boys you like the type of boys i see what you mean you were friends with the girls that liked the boys you liked. The type of boys.

I see what you mean. You know, just like. Maybe like celebrities. You're into skater boys or whatever. You're into jocks, you know, and I just, I'm just saying. The two types of men. The similar interests. But when you get older, right, and it becomes more about just personality,

you know, introverted, extroverted, how they treat others, how they treat you, how they step up for you. You know, as we get older, we become, we're working on our own lives and everyone's got their own main character journey and they're looking for relationships or they're looking for their focus on their career, et cetera, et cetera. Everyone has a reason and justifiable reason in their head to be self-centered. Yeah. Everyone has a reason of why today's is not the day they're capable of thinking about anyone else but themselves, because they have so much on their plate, so to speak. And when we get older, we think of

friendships a little bit differently. So this is just maybe an example of why maybe you two aren't as compatible as friends as you thought you were or want to be. Because maybe back in the day when she met this friend or it's like a work friend or something, you know, it was like, Hey, you know, we met at work, some, some similar common interests. And it was like, Hey, I want a friend at work. So it's going to be Monica and she's sweet and she's nice. And we generally get along. But as the friendship evolved and you had greater expectations of this friend,

you realize they're not willing to step up. I guess this is all to say, it's just like, don't ruin your own wedding by making this bigger than it needs to be. She clearly doesn't want to be a flower girl. So I would just drop it with Monica. As far as your wedding goes, I would just drop it for the time being. If you want to, in the future, as far as it relates to your friendship with Monica, communicate with her. It's like, it just really bummed me out. At the end of the day, I just wanted to make you feel involved. And I just wanted you to be a part of my wedding because I care about our friendship. But I was really hoping in that moment, you would be more excited that I wanted to include you in my wedding rather than judge me for the idea that I had about including you.

You know, it just made me, you know, whatever it made her feel, she can express that. I wouldn't do it unless it's a huge priority right now, because then it's just it's going to create more drama around your wedding. Right. And Monica's clearly, in my understanding, it's like she's clearly just upset she didn't get the bridesmaid ask. I don't know in my understanding it's like she's clearly just upset she didn't get the bridesmaid ask because nobody's like

what? That's so weird you want me to put flowers on the eye like you know like nobody's Do you think that it could be

there's a lot of judgy people when it comes to wedding ooh really you want me to be a flower girl? Like is that a thing? There's a lot of people who have a lot of opinions

about how weddings should be but I'm my sense is that it's like she's mad because she's comparing flower girl to bridesmaid versus flower girl to attendee. Like she's feeling like she got demoted. Like she thought she would have been a bridesmaid. So flower girl is like a demotion from that as opposed to a promotion from attendee. And so it's kind of like a social politics like, oh, I wasn't close enough to make this cut kind of thing. I mean, listen, if she

thought she's gonna be a bridesmaid, I can why it feels like a demotion yeah totally because an adult flower girl isn't as common it brings more attention on monica it's like why is this girl who is that it's like oh no no she's not a bridesmaid no she's a flower girl yeah it's like the ring bearer is like a four-year-old boy but either way if they have other friends having silly roles like this to include other friends too i think that would feel differently i wonder if like this this is just for monica because then that would feel awkward you know monica is not a selfless person yeah that's the biggest we're learning you know monica is not one of those people who's like no matter how she feels about whatever she is asked to do she is incapable of saying it's not my wedding and i

just want to i'm here to support however i can it's not my wedding. And I just want to, I'm here to support however I can. I'm not here to ask questions. I'm not here to complain. I'm not here to compare. I'm just here to just, I'm happy to be here in whatever capacity they want me to be here. Oh, you want me to be a part of your wedding? Oh, great. Thank you. Monica's not one of those people. No. And it's like, Monica, you can still like talk shit, like lovingly, politely and localized to friends who don't know. Like if you want to like talk shit like lovingly politely and localized to friends who don't know like if you want to like joke about being like yeah i guess i'm a fucking flower girl like if you need to get that out of your system you can but like suck it up get it out of your

system then be a good friend get out of your system with someone who's or it's not gonna get back to the bride that's what i'm saying a localized i think it is important like i think your mom there's a i think there's a difference between talking shit and processing and there's also a gray area venting yeah yeah you know like kind of venting and i think you're allowed to like if you are if you feel weird about it and you need to just like make a joke make a joke to one friend who does not know this and who will keep their mouth shut and bada bing bada boom i'm so stressed about the possibility of picking friends for bridesmaids it seems like a nightmarish task and so i'm sorry to this writer in her

that they had to make some hard choices. That wasn't totally seamless. It didn't worry me. It doesn't worry you? That makes so much sense. That's so on brand. You haven't even asked them. You're so unworried.

I have one more to ask. Okay. But you're not a, I don't think you're a people pleaser. And I think you're very on brand for being like, you know, you get what you get and you don't get upset. if you do get upset if one of my buddies i mean they never would i'd just be like you answer that question you know why i've never been like oh my god i would never

no they would never ask so i would never say that but it it's just like, you know. Yeah. You know why. I feel like this is something where a lot of people probably have like similar or adjacent experiences. So if there's been some wedding party drama that you've experienced and you want to tell your tale, write about it in the comments because I would like to know and I'm stressed and maybe I want to be more stressed by hearing horror stories. I don't know. All right.

Well, we got some great calls lined up for you. Don't forget to send those questions that ask Nick at the file files.com for all things. Ask Nick texting off stars mediation. You know, the drill, we got a big week lined up for you. Very excited.

It's so big that we're adjusting our schedule to accommodate the bigness of it. Tomorrow, regular schedule program. We got reality recap with the one and only Cammie Crawford, friend of show. It's her first time on the show. I've been friends with Cammie for a while. You might know her from Catfish, popular show on MTV. She's got her own other hit podcast, but she's here to talk with us all things reality TV, Golden Bachelor, Bachelor

in Paradise, and then some. And then on Wednesday, not Thursday, we're dropping Going Deeper a little early because Lindsay Hubbard from Summer House is with us. It's her first time doing a podcast since her shocking breakup from Carl. She walks through the entire breakup and how she felt and all the deets and all the tea. I think this is even if you do not watch the show Summer House, I think it is so worthwhile because it is like a very like the circumstances I think are both shocking but relatable in certain capacity. If you've ever felt just kind of like blindsided.

So yeah, if you haven't heard of this breakup, do your research or just Google it. Lindsay Hubbard, Carl. What's Carl's last name? Radke. Radke. Yeah. I don't know. hubbard carl what's carl's last name rad key rad key yeah i don't know thank god she didn't have to take that last name yeah thank god uh well she is with us on wednesday for going deeper get ready put your seatbelts on it is full throttle full throttle let's get to our call let's ask nick your sexy questions

how's it going good how are you good what's your name sarah hi sarah how old are you i'm 28 how can we help um i haven't broken up with my boyfriend yet because i'm worried about the financial elements okay uh what are those elements um So I recently just finished law school. We've been together throughout the end of my law school journey. I ended up taking some time off of work, working full time to study for the bar exam. And my boyfriend has been financially supporting both of us for about a year now. has been financially supporting both of us for about a year now. He ended up selling his house and made a pretty decent profit off of that before COVID was over. But the, I guess, financial element is he spent close to 20 to 30 grand for us and it's still going on. I haven't found a full-time position yet. So that's kind of where the hangup is right now.

Gotcha. Okay. Say that one more time so I'm not confused. So I just finished law school. I was working full-time. I quit my full-time job to study for the bar exam after law school. How long did that take? About a year.

I actually ended up failing the first time, so I had to retake the bar exam again. So I'm actually waiting on bar results right now. So my boyfriend has taken on the financial load. So about a year ago or so, there was a point in your professional life, and I guess your relationship life where the two met so to speak and you were like hey i need to study this for this bar exam the studying for the bar exam was in fact your full-time job an unpaid full-time job and you guys sat down it sounds like at some point and you guys agreed as a couple, it

sounds like. Correct me if there's any gaps in this repeating back. And it was decided that he would support the both of you while you studied for the bar exam. Correct. And actually, it originally wasn't even my idea. I feel like my upbringing, my dad has always taught me not to really rely on another man for financial support. So it was really hard for me to accept that financial help.

Sure. And it was his idea. He said, like, I'm willing to support you. I love you. I really want to set you up for success. So, I mean, it wasn't anticipated that it would go on for a year. It was only supposed to be for a couple months. And he's been willing and able to do that. Okay. And then what other conversations or expectations around this did you guys have, if any at all? Like, did you discuss the potential length of time? Did you guys discuss any sort of repayment or was this just

from the kindness of his heart i guess what i'm trying to get at is you know like what expectations did you guys have because so far i am just seeing uh i'm just hearing a story about a guy who was i guess generous in a relationship um a relationship that doesn't sound like it's working out for you and you know it's like a kind of a tough luck to him right i'm not trying to sound, but I guess other than like, it sounds like you're worried about him coming back with what the fuck I did all this for you. You used me, you used me,

et cetera, et cetera. I guess we did. The expectation was that I wasn't to ever pay him back. I offered many times um but it seems like anytime we really had any argument even if it wasn't related to um the financial aspect it always ended up turning into or um it was brought up during the argument so i guess this is kind of like twofold how was it brought up um he said like i've

sacrificed so much for you i'm literally like paying for our rent paying for all of these things um i sold my house for you well did he though or did he sell his house while with you i guess i'm just trying to get to what do you think is fair because him having the benefit of hindsight now that your relationship is going through its struggles um i don't think he would have been so generous had he thought you guys weren't going to work out right nevertheless um like i just don't know if you get to I just don't know if you get to retroactively go back and send someone I guess an invoice

because things didn't work out the way you wanted to. Right. Because it doesn't sound like he was borrowing you the money, right? He was supporting the relationship at the time. Right.

And he was doing so through financial means but that was his way of support one of his ways of supporting the relationship the the thing about money is that it's tangible i guess is what i'm trying to say and it's easy to literally account for it like you have people who are accountants uh when it comes to money but uh people do all sorts of things for relationships and for their partners um they step up in moments of need you know etc etc um and i'm willing to bet as someone who at various times in relationships has stepped up for their partners financially when it made sense um i wasn't really making that much of a sacrifice you know what i'm saying like everyone's situation is different but it's not like i had to go get a second job you know so that i could

afford to help out my partner who needed some extra cash to do whatever for it was like hey i can handle this no problem i don't want you stressing out i want you to do focus on this i got this no problem i love you right um and my gut tells me your situation resembles that more than him like going out and taking a second loan or getting another job to pay for you to go to law school correct yeah so to me i see it as more of just one of the many possible things that people do in relationships to support the relationship at the time when they think when they are investing in a relationship and a relationship is an investment right just like anything else is if we're if we're thinking about it unromantically and so all the things we do in a relationship when the relationship is going well we're doing it

because well we think we're gonna get something out of it, right? No, many relationships fail. They don't work out. People break up. You know, and that's a shitty element of it, but I don't, we don't, it's not necessarily fair to go back and be like, well, if I wouldn't have done that, if I'd known this was going to happen, of course. And I feel like that, that to me, it sounds like what he's doing. This was a mediation and he was here talking to us, uh, you're a lawyer or on your way to be one, what would his argument be? Like, how would you, how would you, as his lawyer argue for his position?

Um, I don't think he would be like sending me an invoice or expecting any repayment. I think that, um, cause we've talked about like potentially like going our separate ways and I've offered numerous times to pay him back or pay some portion back. I think cause like I have some sort of like guilt. Um, but he's told me that he does not want me to pay him back and that it was just something that he was willing to do for our relationship. Why is he throwing it in your face? I don't know. This is something we've started couples therapy for the past couple of months now.

And I think, I mean, our therapist said that a lot of it is an anxiety on his part that I think he needs to work out on his own. Are you... I don't think... Are you done with this relationship emotionally and mentally, or are you still holding out hope? Like, are, you know, where are you in the, I want to rig up with my boyfriend? Cause it sounded like you're, you're all but done, but trying to figure out the mess. Um, I think I'm still willing to give it a last, um, effort kind of, um, why are we breaking up potentially?

Um, I don't know exactly how to frame it. I think I was just like a compatibility issue. I think that, um, he sees it as like, he can't really support me in any other way besides financially. But I just feel like there are a lot of things that about him that kind of just

don't match with what I need. Like, I feel like I always wanted like this nice guy after all of my relationships and you finally get the nice guy and it's kind of like, well, this isn't it's I'm realizing that it was kind of the bare minimum. Can you give me more examples? And, you know, yeah. Um, I feel like he doesn't really have his own opinion. Anytime we plan anything, he's like, whatever you want to do. And he doesn't want to make the plans himself. I mean, I think I assumed, and I shouldn't have, that being 40 years old, I kind of feel like his mother. Being 40 years old, I kind of feel like his mother, but a lot of times I feel like I'm kind of raising him, teaching him how to clean, how to do laundry, how to do everyday things. And it kind of, after a long time, has worn down on me.

What, I guess, does he literally not know how to do it or does he not have the time for it? Is he busy at work? I wouldn't really say. I think it also has to come has to come from like a like upbringing perspective. He's the youngest of all of his siblings. And there's such an age gap between his siblings that he was basically an only child. I'm an only child, too, but I'm not like this. But I can see that his mom does everything for him. I'm an only child too, but I'm not like this, but I can see that his mom does everything for him.

And so I think it takes for someone to remind him or tell him, hey, your laundry is like building up. You should probably do that. Or like cleaning up around the house. I have to like put on his schedule that we need to clean the bathrooms. And it's just getting like really exhausting to have to like delegate to an adult how to do their chores can't you hire a maid i mean with the finances right now he probably wouldn't want to no okay so money is a little tight right now i wouldn't really say it's tight he i don't think

would find the value in it i i only bring this up because I asked you why you guys are breaking up. And the first story you told me was about, and this lack of compatibility has to do around, I've mentioned this before, my therapist talks about the three B's, the bed, the broom, and the budget. And you guys are fighting over the broom and the budget, so to speak. Right. The broom being the one where you feel like you aren't getting your emotional needs met and you feel like a mother. And having a maid is a very privileged thing. But at the same time, if it saved your relationship, you know, if the first thing that you said, this is why feel the most misunderstood this is why i feel like i'm on is unhappy and yeah maybe his mom did a bad job when it came

to like making him clean up his room or do chores or things like that and it's just like not in his nature and it's not the first thing he thinks of it's not a priority for him and so you know he just doesn't feel like doing it as an adult uh maybe that would be money well spent for him and or you in the relationship to have it not be something you guys fight over or argue about you know and it might be you might think oh well you know that's a lot of money to spend on someone to like clean our room because like money is tight but you know it's all a matter of perspective you know i don't know what you guys spend your money on but a few hundred bucks a month might go a long way to not have you feel frustrated at him and vice versa right i don't I mean, like I know there's only one aspect of it,

but if, if that is the problem, maybe that's the solution. You're looking at me like I'm crazy. I disagree with that. I feel like this is more than like the money. Like it's the principle of like him not being responsible. Like I totally get that.

I had a relationship and then I said to myself, I'm never going to date a younger sibling again. Like it's, it's frustrating, especially him being 40. I'm sure gonna date a younger sibling again like it's yeah it's frustrating especially him being 40 i'm sure that's like even more frustrating because it's more than like cleaning up for himself like if if you want to build a family with him what's he going to be like as a father you know is and i think that's what i worry about yeah it's just like am i going to be raising like two kids if we have one kid like i mean is he that useless like

raising like two kids if we have one kid like i mean is he that useless like because here's the thing like like for me right like i folding laundry get out of here like i will let laundry just sit in the fucking dryer for forever and when i was a single guy i just like i did my own laundry and i would just like pull socks out of the dryer and I'd pull a shirt. I mean, childless stuff, but I'm also like, that was just a thing. It was like a pet peeve of mine. But like, I also like love taking care of the people I love and I love stepping up and I love,

you know, yeah, I don't want to do X, Y, or Z, but you know what I'm saying? So like, I hate doing laundry. I'm generally a messy person.

I don't like doing chores. I don't like cleaning. I fucking hate it. You know? doing laundry. I'm generally a messy person. I don't like doing chores. I don't like cleaning. I fucking hate it. You know, and no one ever accused me if they walked into my, my place as a single guy of being the tidiest or things like that. There's definitely a lot of, ooh boy moments. If you walked through my house before I was with Natalie, but I also, as a partner feel like I don't leave it. It leave. It's without question, whoever I'm dating knows that I'm going to take care of my family. I'm going to step up and do what I need. Maybe that's what I need is just to hire someone to do the work that I don't want to do.

Am I making sense? Or it's just like, so is he that useless? Or are you, I mean, is he just like. Or like, are there other areas in the relationship where you feel like the same kind of like complacency manifests? Like I know you mentioned kind of like planning dates. Are there other kind of examples where you just feel like you're like, why am I in this alone? Like, where's the partner? Yeah, like I think it has to do with like our relationship planning dates.

I feel like a lot of everyday activities. I just feel like I he's just I just feel like I, he's just, I just feel like he's very complacent and comfortable with where he's at. And I'm maybe we're just not in the same part of our lives. Cause I'm just now starting my career. I'm starting to figure out what I want to do in my life. Whereas he's 40. I mean, he's, he's been married before and divorced. Do you know why he got divorced? I guess complacency is more of what it is. I think that he... So, for example, if he wants to go to a football game or a hockey game with his friends and he invites me and I say,

Oh, I'm just going to stay home. I'm not really up for it this weekend. invites me and I say, oh, I'm just going to stay home. I don't, I'm not really up for it this weekend. He'll say like, oh, like, I guess I'll just, I'll just stay home with you. Even though when he first asked me about it, I can tell he was excited, but just because I don't want to go, he feels like he has to stay home with me. Well, where does that come from? I don't know. I've never, I've always pushed him to hang out with his friends and like have his own, I guess, life outside of just our relationship. Every single time I try to get him to go out and hang out with his friends individually, it kind of reels him in even more and makes him not want to go anywhere without me. Interesting. And you don't like that for the most part or?

And you don't like that for the most part or. No, I think that I can. We've talked about it. Like, I feel like I'm a very introverted person and he's very extroverted. And I there are times where I'm hanging out with groups of friends like days and days in a row. And there's just one day I just want to be at home and just not talk to anyone and just hang out by myself. And I don't think he truly understands that but why doesn't he just go out with his friends like where is this feeling of I'm having like a disconnect you know because it's just like I get wanting to be a supportive boyfriend or partner and be like oh you know hey I want to go do this with my friends you don't want to go and then you know my partner's know, Hey, I want to go do this with my friends.

You don't want to go. And then, you know, my partner's like, Oh, do you really have to go to this? I'd love to spend the day with you. And then I don't go, but I, the partner telling me to go, wanting me to go, but him not wanting to go with you, even though he wants, but you say he wants to go where, like, where does you never, like... That just seems like an oxymoron. Why doesn't he want to go with his friends? You don't even want him there. And he's saying, oh no, I'll stay with you. Why?

Right. And I mean, our therapist said a lot of it has to do with anxiety on his part. Anxiety about what? Just like generalized anxiety i guess um she had recommended to him that he needs to like see his own therapist and work on his own anxiety um because i mean i have my own therapist i've seen her for years and like i feel like a lot of these issues aren't really there he's gonna have these issues any relationship he's in i feel like and I I have

asked him like maybe you should go to therapy again and it's just like not a priority for him if you guys go to a party together is he the kind of person who just like clings to you the whole time like won't leave your side when you're in the bathroom he's standing outside the bathroom not talking to anyone um I wouldn't say it goes that far. I would say that if he's usually kind of like always in my vicinity and then he'll come like he'll go and hang out with some people and then come back and check in with me, which I appreciate. But I just feel like I'm being like I'm being supervised at the same time. And I know it's not, it's not in a, what are you doing type of way.

He just really enjoys being with me, I think. But I, I don't know. I think, yes, he's always around me, but I wouldn't say he's like outside the bathroom waiting for me. Are you sure he's an extrovert? He has a lot of energy whenever he, we actually do go out and hang out with his friends. I think he kind of becomes a different person when he's in a relationship or when he's with me. Because I can definitely see, like, he thrives when he's with other people and sees other people. He's a recruiter for a career.

So this is what he does for work. But I just don't understand how it has gotten to this point in our relationship. Interesting. I'm curious, you mentioned that you guys have talked about ending the relationship, but it kind of sounds like he doesn't want to have like a life out of this relationship. Like what does he think is wrong for you guys to have had that conversation or just like starting couples therapy like what do you think his issues with the relationship are i don't even think that he has issues with the relationship i think that um it's just been me saying i'm not happy i'm not exactly sure like what you can do

differently i've just been like this unhappiness has grown more and more the longer we've been together. And whenever I don't like check in with him and have a discussion about like what I still need, he just assumes that everything's going fine and that we're doing okay. What do you need? Like describe to me your perfect relationship. You know, for someone who's been in, is this your first relationship? No. Okay. So you've had a couple of serious relationships. You're on the verge of ending

another one. Now that you've had relationships that have been substantial and meaningful, but didn't work out. What, how would you, what would you wish for yourself and your next partner? I think someone that's nice and like is very, um, family oriented, close with their family. Is he not nice or family oriented? Yeah, he definitely is. I want you to lead with traits that you don't feel like you've gotten out of past relationships okay because i i'm having a and i'm sure you have every reason to feel however you feel but i am having a hard time understanding why you want to end this relationship and not because it's just like, right. You're describing what sounds like things that the

average couple that's, you know, still has some mutual love there. It sounds like some normal issues that every relationship has. You don't have to be in any relationship you don't want to be in. I'm not telling you to stay, but I'm just trying to understand, you know, qualities that you're not getting out of this relationship that you want in the next. And for someone who's about to end a relationship, I think it would be easy for someone to articulate the qualities that you would want in your next relationship because of, you know, you're so starved in this current relationship. Yeah. I would say someone that's independent, that doesn't really need to lean on me for everyday activities or anything around the house for that matter.

Someone that's driven. I feel like he's very comfortable in his career. I am always striving to get a promotion, move on to the next chapter in my career. Someone that is able to make decisions on their own without having to check in with me and ask me what I think. I just feel like he doesn't really have a backbone for the most part. I feel like I, the best way to articulate it is I feel like I take on a lot of the mental load. What if you just stopped making those decisions? What would that look like?

It would be chaos. Like things wouldn't ever get done around here. I feel like I would just be living in like, like what? I don't think that we would ever really leave the house without like if I didn't make plans for us to go and do anything. If I didn't push to hang out with friends, it would kind of be like COVID all over again. We would just be stuck at home together days on end without. How can you be an extrovert if that's. I just I think it changes when he's in a relationship because he very, like before we got together, he was always hanging out with his friends.

He played recreational hockey. He did all of these things. And when you're in couples therapy with him and you're talking about this problem, what does he say to these things? I guess I'm just, these seem like manageable problems. And I'm just curious what his response to these problems are. And I'm just curious what his response to these problems are. He says he understands, but I can tell he's a little sad or disappointed that I wouldn't want to spend the time with him.

Well, he doesn't understand that you might need a break every once in a while. And by a break, I mean like a night alone. He doesn't understand? He understands that part, but I feel like sometimes, I don't know if he's trying to do it, but he tries to kind of guilt me. Like, oh, you haven't seen these people in so long. Or, oh, you haven't, like, if that's really what you want, like, I will go without you. I guess, I am curious, what were you hoping to get out of this call um i guess just figuring out like if these are actually like issues that like are real issues to end a relationship over because i i just feel like deep down like i'm really just unhappy

um so that part seems obvious. You obviously are emotional about it. Yeah. I'll be honest, I'm having a hard time and I usually don't feel this way on a call trying to like fully understand what's going on in this relationship or your point of view. Other than like you clearly strongly are frustrated and you clearly feel helpless in a way.

I don't feel that way. I feel really frustrated on your behalf. And I'm thinking like if you were to end things, you know, you're not working right now. I feel like this is a hard question that like I feel bad asking. But have you thought about like what you would do if you, I assume like, is this his apartment? Would you move out? Yeah. Like I've already like started like researching like the market, like how much like I would, cause I I've lived alone before, but like just researching the market to see like how much would it be for me to move out? How much would it be for us to break our lease?

like how much would it be for me to move out how much would it be for us to break our lease how much would it be to just go back to living alone again um so i've looked into that and um i've like started applying for jobs outside of where we're living just because i hate me and he doesn't want to move that's another aspect um and i definitely don't want to hold myself back um because i still am young and i can move for any job that i would want to um so i have thought about what to do like if we were to bet that he feels like him paying supporting you through law school or the bar exam was him showing responsibility and love and stepping up and being an adult you know which i mean hell he supported you for a year and i'm not saying you owe him in a like you need to stay with him but i'm just trying to like i'm trying to figure out

like i'd love this to be a mediation call i wish he was here because i would just love to understand you know where he's coming from um in a sense um because like like i guess the cleaning up and the him being a little messy and a little spoiled from mom or i i trust me i've frustrations but it's just like i'm having a hard time understanding like why he an extrovert doesn't want to ever hang out with his friends or where that's coming from or also why like why it's not like a generally simple conversation to sit down and say hey let's love you love us but we spend all a ton of time together we spend all our time together like 99 of our time together and i'm just i need like a little bit of time alone and that why isn't that an easy fix it doesn't even sound like he's tried yeah and i think that's also part of the issue is like,

I brought my frustrations to him and he doesn't really do anything about it. Or he just says, I hear you, but there is no action. Yeah. I feel like maybe there is something about this. That's a bit gendered because like Genevieve and I, I think are really like,

I feel like I really recognize what you're saying. And I've had a lot of friends, female friends who date men who I think sort of seek a certain kind of support that when it's not like where for them it's a it's a form of participating in the relationship and when it's not there it just feels so lonely and so isolating and it feels like sometimes there's this real disconnect of like their male partners just like not even understanding that this is a dimension of support or like the way that this could look or be experienced. But like for you, you feel this colossal void of like this is also think there's a subset of men who are just like whether it has to do with like not maybe having a ton of like emotional communication infrastructure or just having certain expectations of like oh you get married and then it is like that like you are just each other's person and like you take care of everything for each other you know like just have these kind of maybe more like limited views of what partnership looks like and I think it can

be and maybe less of a willingness to completely understand where the partner is feeling a sense of lacking i guess yeah do you know what i'm talking about nick like have you like the kind of like this like almost genre of concern maybe i just don't relate to the type of guy he is. I don't know. But. But and I'm not saying this is not me throwing it in your face, but this is a guy who did like support you through law school for a year. So he's not completely useless. who doesn't care or doesn't want to do anything. It's that their idea of what it looks like to be in a relationship is sometimes very simple or very like limited of like, he thinks he's doing the, like, he's probably doing his best if he's like, I'm paying for you and he loves you, but he doesn't understand that part of what would be serving you best would be a, just like a different level of

like kind of engagement and support and initiative and participation in places that he just doesn't see the opportunity to i guess the more we talk i think it's just compatible like you said before i just maybe you're not compatible you said something earlier where you're just like you want a more motivated partner you want a partner who's more career driven and like it doesn't sound like that's him not everyone is looking not everyone is like you and me you know and there's a problem that I have to a certain degree, which is once I get to a certain destination, I'm always looking for the next one. You know, there's a lot of unhappiness that comes with that mindset. Something just aside that you should be mindful of, of someone who can self-identify as like a goal oriented person.

Like the downside of that is never being happy or fulfilled. Um, and he seems to be someone who doesn't necessarily need that for his own fulfillment. And you, that's just your, your two personalities. But if it's that important to you to have someone match that in a relationship, then he just may never, never be your guy. You know, you have to ask yourself though, have you ever dated someone who you, that matched your goal setting and kind of attitude towards their career in life? No.

Okay. It's interesting. I, yeah, I would, I'm genuinely curious if, if you'd actually like it. I don't know. Not everyone likes to date themselves. Sometimes there's a balance, and one person being the more goal-oriented person,

the other being the person who kind of balances them out, where it's just kind of like, hey, babe, maybe we should just enjoy the moment. My gut tells me that it's, one, a compatibility thing, and two, i'm just wondering on your side if it's just you being set in your ways and i i just my gut tells me you're just as stubborn about what you want is what he wants but maybe i'm wrong yeah no i i definitely can see that um and i've been trying to actively work on that. And maybe if that's just me saying like, oh, like I'm trying to work on it and trying to fix it, but he's not.

I also just feel like I think that's part of the reason why I wanted to come on to just see like, is this a compatibility issue? Or is this just like, am I just complaining about things that I don't really need to be complaining about? Like, I should just be happy with this. I mean, happiness is relative, but you can't tell yourself to be happy. And I think you have to figure out whether your unhappiness is coming from within or because you're not getting what you need out of the relationship. Yeah. You know? what you need out of the relationship.

Yeah. You know, and if you left this relationship, because I've been in relationships where when they ended, I felt relief and I felt immediate happiness of like, I'm finally, I no longer have this burden

that I fought so hard for, for whatever the reasons were. If you ended it today, how do you think, I don't know if you would feel relief. I don't know. I don't know because I mean, he did, when we were talking one time, he asked me, well, when was the last time you were happy? And part of me was like, when I, before I met you, when I was just alone with my dog and I just don't know if that's just because I feel so suffocated right now.

Um, well, that might, that might be it. I mean, you clearly, that is valid to someone who just needs their own alone time. That is, that just might be who you are and that's fine. You know? And I relate to that on a lot of levels too. Uh, I might need a little bit less than you but doesn't really matter like that's just who you are and so yeah compatibility could be a huge issue for someone who doesn't seem to get that about you and not only doesn't get that but doesn't you know makes it about them i mean his to me it's like his

biggest if i he were here i'd be like dude, it's not about you that she needs her own alone time. And it doesn't say anything less about her love for you or your connection. But like, you know, and whether you understand it or not, you know, it's your job as her partner to just not make it about you and give her what she needs, as long as you're getting what you need as well. And like, you know, meeting each other's needs is that just meeting each other's needs. And, and what can I do for you when you ask something in return? You know, it's like, if you ask for something, you immediately have to be asking, well, also, what can I do for you? You know, and you both need to be saying that.

And it doesn't, I don't, it sounds like neither of you are saying that. It sounds like both of you are more like focused on what you're not getting out of the relationship. Yeah. And I think that could be something we can try to work on in therapy, but I just don't know if it's just a little too late for me. You can also... I was in couples therapy when I broke up with my ex and we did a few sessions after we decided we were breaking up and it was really helpful to talk about like grief and loss and like you know start to process that together in certain ways so i think it's also

something where that resource could also be beneficial in exiting the relationship not just trying to like kind of fight through it yeah and i i even asked my therapist i was like is that something that people do like even though you're going to couples therapy do people still continue to go after a breakup so i think that would be helpful too there's no norm just depends if they both want to you know yeah and just like a like even just like a session or two can be really helpful to have like you know a third party who has some expertise and can kind of help you through it but yeah do you think you're a control freak uh yeah and i've worked on it for a while now with in therapy um i think that um i definitely still have more um work to do uh have all your exes been, have you been the more dominant person in the relationships

you've had? No, I think this is the first relationship where I've actually like stood up for what I want rather than just kind of go with whatever they want. Okay. I'm just curious what you want for yourself in the next relationship or what your next partner looks like. Are they more established? Are they older than you? If compatibility is the reason why this relationship is ending, I'm curious. It's really important for you to know what compatibility traits are most important for you in a relationship. Because liking the same movies is a compatibility point, but but for you it might not be as important as being compatibility with how much quality time you guys need uh to make the relationship work you know and quality time isn't always this time together you know um

the emphasis is on quality not time um but I think it's just really important for you to figure out what those compatibility points are because I don't think you know yet no and I don't know I think I also still feel guilty that like nothing specifically has like gone wrong in our relationship um what do you mean to be able to that's not true you're like hey i want some alone time he's like no i won't give it to you that's specific yeah um but i'm just yeah if that's actually what's going on you know yeah i would i would just i wish I was there for a fight between you guys. You know, because I just, I feel like there's information I'm not getting.

Not that you're withholding or anything. I'm just, it is one of those things where you're having a hard time articulating why you're unhappy. So I'm having a hard time. And I get some of these little things that you pointed out. I get, you know, like, listen, no one wants to, you know, it'd be frustrating someone who acts like they're incapable of. Is he that incapable of making decisions or doing anything? I want to say no. Do you respect him? Yeah, I respect him.

But I think I think part of the issue is I respect myself more. What do you love respect him? Yeah, I respect him. But I think part of the issue is I respect myself more. What do you love about him? That he's a very, very kind person. He would literally... We live downtown in our city, and he goes out of his way going to the store and getting food for the homeless people to make sure whenever whenever he passes them he hands out food so he does a lot of selfless things um so i do appreciate that about him because i feel like i could be more selfless um why does he do that selfless for you um i think that might be part of what the issue is i feel like like he's helpless towards everyone but me. Okay. Yeah. I don't know if there's a clear answer here. Um, and I'm sorry if I didn't give you the clarity that you

were looking for when you called. I do feel like at the end of the day, not feeling that you're compatible with something is a valid reason to break up with someone. I just think it's really important for you to figure out what what you prioritize in a relationship um and then going forward i think it's important for you to like i would ask yourself if you could have done this relationship over again at what point would you had addressed some of these frustrations you're dealing with now like how could you have gotten answers quicker? You know, what conversations didn't you have when you guys first started dating that would have given you more insight into what things he prioritized and what things he didn't prioritize?

You know, in terms of like quality time or what are his expectations when he's in a relationship with his partner? How does he act in a relationship? And then whether, you know, in a relationship with his partner? How does he act in a relationship? And then whether, you know, and do they follow through with the things they say early on? You know, because it sounds like a lot of this was all revelations to you as the relationship unfolded. And I think a lot of them I kind of ignored as well. Yeah. Well, I'm sorry you're going through this. Yeah, I i'm crying that's okay don't apologize it's really hard it sucks being lonely in a relationship yeah um i wish i would have been able to articulate it better for you but um i think you guys have

really helped like kind of give a different perspective and like what you're seeing and hearing yeah i mean i just i would if it sounds it sounds like you don't think he wants to end the relationship but you do but if you really are at the your wits end like why don't you just lay it all out there for him and be like because that's the thing none of these problems that you're articulating sound unsolvable but none of it happens unless he decides to solve the problem. Or as a couple, you guys decide to solve it together. So lay it all on the line, and it's like either you want to do it or you don't. But I can't make you do it, I can't make you want to do it,

and I am more than anything tired of asking. So like, you know, if you don't want to do it, it's fine. We'll just go our separate ways. But if you want want to too then i need to see that you want to you know and i think whenever we do have these discussions i feel like i'm either given like excuses for why they can't change or or um they are changed temporarily. Yeah. I'm sorry. If you guys want to come back on his mediation,

I'm here for you guys. Yeah, thank you so much. I would love to hear his point of view, whatever it is. I am curious just because I'm sure he has one and I'm sure it sounds like the way you talk about it, he's frustrated about everything he you know he's vented he's put out you know he's thrown out the whole money shit you know so he has his frustrations but I also want to like I

just want to know what he would say I'm confused yeah yeah and I think I just I don't know what to think at this point about it all well you gotta do something you know make a choice one way or the other you'll get information out of it you know but you can't keep doing this this isn't accomplishing

anything you know being sad and feeling frustrated you know maybe it'll be a wake-up call. I don't know. So I would just make a choice one way or the other and then go from there. Okay.

Thank you. Keep us posted. I'm invested. I want to hear what happens here. Sorry if I wasn't as helpful as you hoped I would be. Oh, no. You definitely gave me some good things to think about. Okay. All right.

Well, good luck. Thank you. All right. Take care. This show is sponsored by Rakuten. If you're getting ready to do your holiday shopping at whatever store, truly, I mean, literally almost any store, make sure you head to Rakuten

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Hi, I'm Talia. I'm 25. Hi, I'm Jake. I'm 27. We're wondering if we should continue our pattern of being a bit unhinged and get married at the end of this year. Oh, okay. All right.

Great. Well, let's find out. Jake, I couldn't help but hear a bit of an accent. Yeah, I'm British. I'm curious, does you beingish and having an accent have anything to do with this um fast-paced love affair yeah you've nailed it on the head um so i guess a bit of a backstory um we're we're coming up to to a year together but we we met on the plane um to dublin island and i wasn't man enough to ask for her number even though she was sitting right next to me so it was a missed opportunity then by some

coincidence a month later we reconnected on a dating app and i dropped her a message and said by any chance that i said next sit next to you on a flight to dublin and pretty much since then we've been moving fast paced and as and unhinged as as she describes it um i think part of is we've gone through a lot of i guess a key relationship milestones together which we're both comfortable and enjoy but we're we're a bit worried that we're moving so fast that we're not actually enjoying the aspects of the relationship that most people would ordinarily enjoy. Yeah. How old are you both again? 25. 27.

Okay. And you've been together how long? It'll be a year next month. Okay. Not very long. And why is marriage on the table? So my visa is currently tied to my firm and I've been wanting to move jobs for quite a while. Okay. So it's mainly driven've been wanting to move jobs for quite a while.

Okay. So it's mainly driven by just wanting to move firms. We've already discussed and we both definitely do want to get married at some point in the future, but the job is really impacting it right now. Gotcha. And you want to move to the United Kingdom, sounds like. We're already here. We're in London right now. You're in london right now you're in london right now but you yeah if you change firms or jobs or quit then you get kicked out i will

be deported immediately yeah immediately and she's like days to be fair but yeah 30 days i mean like yeah as far as your personal relationship lives it's a terrible idea um you might have the benefit it might all work out you know it's you're in a tough position because clearly you guys are excited and i'm guessing your version of the story goes something like this i know this is crazy but everything's been great so far so like if we know we're gonna get married someday why not get married now yeah correct yeah i think part of it is for both of us it's whilst we acknowledge it's been rushed it's it's felt comfortable throughout the whole process and i think that's one of the the big attractions at least from from me to her in the sense that um nothing's felt uncomfortable

in like past relationships and it's it's gone a speed, albeit quick, that we both are excited about. So that's, I guess, part of our concern. How do you guys fight? This is going to completely prove your side of things. We were in couples therapy for a little bit just because I was very hard pushing that side of things. Yeah, the trouble was we were too open to communication. But you did

fight yeah oh well that's a good sign i i was more concerned i was expecting half expecting an answer of like well we haven't yet it's all been great okay part of the part of moving so fast it also creates stresses especially being from two different countries, albeit speak the same language but quite different cultures, English and American culture is quite different, so it creates its own conflicts in itself and then relationships are never easy and they're never easy to work through so we've had a lot of challenges but ultimately it's been I think with the both of knowledge a good relationship and an interesting relationship for both of us and one that we are both excited and willing to pursue and whilst the marriage does seem unhinged it's

it's a commitment or at least I see it as a commitment um to to have that future that we both say that we want to have because obviously we do have that kind of international barrier in our relationship. I mean, what conversations you've had around, you know, ways this couldn't work out? Just in terms, I feel like my biggest concern with it is I feel like I'm being selfish in a sense, because if the visa wasn't really an issue,

we wouldn't be speeding up the marriage. It wouldn't be, this year wouldn't be one year into us dating so i feel like that's my main concern is that if we rush it we're not actually cherishing each step as it comes and resentment might come into it at some i feel like that's more of a resentment would come in who would be resentful of who i would be worried that he'd be resentful of me just because making the relationship go much quicker. It's kind of my situation. Because you want to leave jobs? Yeah. So you could stay at your current job?

Yeah, I have three more years and then I'll be sent home. Okay. And how does that make you feel, Jake? Like, what are your thoughts about her job and her relationship with you and her opportunities outside of this job? Like, what opinions do you have about that? I want to support her. So we have quite open communication. So if that's something that she wants, then I will obviously want to be, I'm in a position to enable her to pursue that ambition that she has. And the long-term goal is for, I guess, us to be together.

And I also want her to be in a job that she finds fulfilling and rewarding. And I think a marriage would, like I say, provide that commitment to the future, but it's also a commitment in the relationship that we have and a belief that in a relationship that although it's been a year we both consider it to be quite a strong one and i think we can both acknowledge it's not felt like this um with previous partners which we both haven't had the easiest relationship with our previous partners so this is i mean for once it was like a a healthy one and one we want to pursue. Who first broached the possibility of getting married? Jake did. And I was quite hypocritical.

I said no because the original plan was for us to move back to America in a year or so time and his firm wasn't going to be able to sponsor him. So he would have needed a visa marriage and me being me, I immediately said no because it was like four months into us dating and now the rules are reversed. I want to move firms and now i need him to say yes to it so thankfully he said yes to it but it's incredibly hypocritical of me i don't know if it's i don't i feel like you're being hard on yourself i mean you're not kind of i said no immediately though he's at least considered it i mean everything lots of lots

changed i mean you went from you've dated for four months to 12 months in this in you know which was like 60 different you know i mean yeah yeah i think the the reason we say our relationships unhinged because it's not just the management as well we i mean i'm not sure we said it in our introduction but we also recently um put an offer on a house which wasn't accepted but something we're looking to do so i thought we just i think our biggest concern is that not necessarily where we are in our relationship it's more just the the key milestones that people enjoy as part of a relationship the only one we're not actually

doing any time in the future which we both agree on is obviously starting a family or anything but other than that that's that's all we have left. And I think part of the relationship is enjoying the moments and the special moments. And I think at the speed we're going out, we're going to, that's our biggest resentment. And I guess not as well, potential regrets that will, it's missed opportunities that we actually took the time to enjoy those special moments in our relationship. What, what are those moments you feel like you might've lost out on? Like within a month of him, even of us meeting the second time he flew out to America to meet my family

four months after that, I flew to Israel to meet his family and I moved in with them. And now 11 months and we put an offer on house together. It's just a matter of going so, so fast. And when it does come to getting married for real, like, because we've already agreed,

this one will just be kind of a ceremonious celebration for the visa. And we'll get real married. However you want to put that in the future. I feel like that takes away from it. Cause we've already done it once. Not as special now. Um,

yeah, that's just a matter of perspective and pass. As far as your, you guys as individuals, like, do you think that both of you as individuals, is this a, are there patterns here that are similar and by patterns i mean like the the speed in which you move in the because your biggest concern for is the way i see it is this the adrenaline of all these moments and the hype

that it brings to the relationship and the natural chemistry that it creates between the two of you, eventually life is going to slow down for the two of you. And then the big question is, will then you two as individuals be willing to put in the work in a relationship to stay connected? Because right now, the pace of which you're going and all these milestones is allowing you guys to stay and be connected with probably minimal effort that's kind of how it's been from the get-go it's been so exciting so fun so this is new for us because i mean i've never moved this quickly and i don't think you have either but that's a good thing so there's not a pattern there i think which is a good thing and you're not the first couple that's gone good thing. So there's not a pattern there, I think, which is a good thing.

And you're not the first couple that's gone through a honeymoon phase. So you have that going for you. I mean, I feel like that ended quite quickly. I mean, are you guys... It's not been the easiest year. So we did argue for the first couple of months, I think, because of those teething points that we had that, where we discussed earlier.

So I feel like we're probably just getting into our honeymoon phase now, which is why I guess we're kind of questioning. Are we, are we not enjoying the moments that we should be enjoying? I am less worried about you guys enjoying the moments. I don't think that's the question you guys have to figure out. I think there's two big questions that you guys have to try to figure out as close as you can. If you were to decide to get married.

One is, when you guys fight, you have fun. So that's a good sign. So you have something to reflect back on. Do you feel as a couple that you've learned to fight fairly? And do you guys approach these disagreements with a common goal from the POV of the relationship to solve the problem? Or do you fight to win, so to speak?

Because there's always going to be conflict from time to time in a relationship. the problem or you know what I'm saying like or do you fight to win so to speak because of you're always gonna there's always gonna be conflict from time to time in a relationship you don't know what's gonna bring up those conflict but your ability to a be willing to work through it and and b ask for help couples therapy you know that's a huge green flag for the both of you that you guys were willing to do that so it's like hey yeah we moved fast this isn't a typical situation uh my fiance and i natalie as soon as she moved to la she moved in with me very like i wouldn't i thought advice i would give to someone you know and i give advice a lot you know but like we it was a risk it was the best choice given our situation at the time. And we just figured out how to make it work, you know?

You know, and, and so we've, but we've prioritized, you know, we made ourselves aware of the potential shortcomings, the obstacles, the,

the stresses that could come with us doing what we did. And we acknowledge those stresses so that when those stresses showed up, it didn't freak us out. And then there was a mutual commitment with each other to work through the issues when they popped up. Because it wasn't a matter of if they're going to pop up, it was when they pop up, what are we going to do? And do we feel like the other person's going to keep their side of the bargain and work with me when those problems arise? You know, and it sounds like you guys have a decent baseline for that. But yeah, it's that.

It's do you guys, how do you work through fights? And are you committed? Yeah. The second part is how committed are you guys to staying connected? You know, doing the work. Because you don't know the future. You don't know what's going to happen. You don't know how your feelings are going to evolve.

And every married couple, regardless of if they met on a plane, living in two separate countries or, you know, were high school sweethearts or dated for seven years, when you get married, life happens and you're going to have to make a very considerable effort to maintain the connection in that day that happened so easily in the beginning. That's why people call it a honeymoon phase, because it's essentially like the amount of time where you are allowed to put minimal effort in your connection and nevertheless felt very connected. Because once that honeymoon phase ends, it is going to own that connection between the two of you is only going to come from the effort you do

both put in the relationship. And then when one person puts in more than the other person, the other person feels a bit, you know, that's where the resentment comes in. You're both making a sacrifice, you know? So this, you know, fear of resentment from the other person, I don't know, if you both just acknowledge that you're both taking a big fucking risk with your lives, you know, and there's, he's responsible for his choices. You're responsible for yours. I think the question is, when it's good, should you not enjoy it? Are you guys not enjoying your relationship? No, we are.

No, we are. But if we're in a moment where now we are enjoying it, why put... Why stress like marriages, weddings, all that type of stuff. But you have to do planning. It's not you've got just external stresses that will add to your relationship. But part of it is just enjoying the moment, living the moment and why taint something that's good? But then again, you could get married and it'd be 10 times better, but I guess to come back to what you're saying, it's the unknowns, and you just got to go with it sometimes.

Just jump in. Yeah, I don't think you guys should get married because you think it's going to make your relationship better. Yeah, I know. Because it definitely won't. What you guys put into the relationship will make it better. It seems like what you guys put into the relationship will make it better it seems like maybe you're almost saying that like you won't get to savor certain steps like because you're

talking about milestones and it seems like kind of the way you're framing it is that it's like with each step of a relationship there's some kind of unique joys or things you get to experience and so if you kind of accelerate at this pace you're missing out on savoring like joy in between those milestones. But I think I don't know. It just feels like especially if you're saying like this could be a marriage on paper and doesn't necessarily need to be the ceremony. Like I think for so many people, it is the symbolism. It's the families merging, getting together. So I think that's still something where you could plan your wedding together.

You could look forward to it. Also, you know, kids is obviously a huge change to your life. And just because you've taken these other milestones fast doesn't mean you're suddenly going to be on the accelerated path to having kids. Like you can kind of do the pre-kid savoring all from like marriage to having kids as opposed to from like meeting to having kids, if that makes sense. Yeah. I think there's ways you guys can savor whatever moments you want to savor in the relationship. Because so much of it is like kind of the ways that you treat each other

or like, you know, it's the anniversaries. It's like the having, not just spending holidays together the first time, it's spending them together the second time. Like so many of them, yes, there's certainly like these external milestones that are visible to everyone that are big like markers of time and kind of the phase of a relationship.

But there's also so many ones that are just like not official in that way that you still will get to experience fully. What does your guts tell you guys? Like is getting married the right decision? Because we know it's not the easy decision. Like, for example, when I use the example of Natalie moving in with me, that was not like my first choice of like how I thought our relationship would start. You know, it wasn't like I wasn't giving the advice I often give other people. But like life happens, you have to make sometimes tough choices. You have to work with the ingredients you have, so to speak. And so, you know, here you have this problem. This problem being is you don't like your job and you don't want to stay in it for three more years. And so now you have to decide

whether you can maintain a certain level of happiness in your career and hope that doesn't bleed into your romantic relationship. Or, like, how do you make a long distance relationship work well in a relationship i mean i guess are you both in the relationship where you're wanting to be selfless for the person you love because that is what a relationship is you know like it it is making selfless choices for each other and if you guys choose to get married it's not based off of um you know, you're not doing it for attention.

You're not doing it for recognition. You're doing it for each other. And doing things for each other, more than anything, is what makes you happy. You know? And hopefully that lasts. But that's why you're doing it. Because if, you know, otherwise you got to go back, you know, to the States. And then it's a long distance relationship and then you have to miss each

other. So, you know, Jake isn't being selfless when he says, let's get married. You know, he wants to be with you. He wants,

I'm right. I mean, he wants, doesn't want to spend every other weekend with you. You know, he doesn't want to prioritize the relationship. He wants to prioritize the relationship, but that's a choice that he's making yeah um and you both just have to own those choices i can't predict the future you know but that's what i'm saying what's most if you

guys decide to go forward with this it is just being super honest about like what this relationship needs you know and your guys commitment to making sure that relationship needs, it's recognizing that you're going to have stresses, that there will be problems. It's, it's that things will slow down. How do you guys soothe each other when the other person is questioning things?

How do you guys just be a team, you know, um, and work through those challenges because every couple's gonna face that you know don't psych yourself out because you're making an unconventional decision and moving things faster out of necessity and then thinking well the relationship's not going to work because i'm not good i'm not doing every step exactly how the books say or whatever. You know what I'm saying? Like sometimes you just have to make crazy choices. But if you guys truly feel like you

love each other and truly feel like right now you guys are on a path to getting married and it's just happening a little sooner than you otherwise would, maybe it's worth the risk. It's always going to be a risk. You could date for 10 years. I mean, I hear a ton of people, it's worth the risk, you know? It's always going to be a risk. You never, you know, you could, you could date for 10 years. I mean, I, you know, I hear a ton of people, it's like, oh, I'm dating my high school sweetheart, you dated for 10 years, you had a five-year engagement and then you're married for a year and they break up, you know? It's like, because it's, the amount of times you, the amount of years that you date, you know, before you get married doesn't determine the success of your relationship.

You know, arranged marriages have a great track record because in arranged marriages, they're more, and this is my guess, just guessing, but I think part of the reason why arranged marriages have such a great track record is because of their value system in terms of like, they're here to make this marriage work. You know, they're here to work through their problems. You know, it's not, they don't go into these marriages thinking, well, if it doesn't work out, I'll get divorced. You know, they address the problems. They work through their problems and they're, and you know, some people stay married and they're miserable just because so, you know, refusing to get divorced isn't the sign of a successful marriage. But the couples, again, who prioritize

the relationship and then prioritize each other's happiness and go out of their way to make each other feel valued and seen is what always is going to make a relationship worthwhile. And you guys have to decide whether you're both willing to do that going forward. Yeah, that makes sense. And I don't think that's as unhinged as it as you sound you know because that's the thing you can psych yourselves out like if you're going to make this decision you should feel good about this decision don't make this decision and be like are we sure we're doing the right thing is this crazy we're crazy you know like yeah i think it's mainly just like the i've spoken about it to a few of my friends their immediate reactions were are you kidding

like are you serious are you really gonna do that so i think i'm letting that influence me as well well don't don't don't tell the story i think i'm getting gonna get married for a green card of course everyone's gonna think you're crazy you know also like could you split the difference could you wait a year to quit? You have three years left in your contract. Could you... Just wait it out more? I don't know. A little bit more. I don't know. If you think that there's peace of mind that would come between now and however much more you would work in your job.

But if you're just doing it that way on paper, it looks a little bit better and you feel less judged by your friends, but you still know in your gut that like, you guys want to move forward with this and it sounds crazy, but it feels right, then I think you guys should be entitled to go for it. Yeah, you could easily get married in a courthouse and then to Amanda's point,

like have a celebration a year or two later when it makes more sense and those are the moments you would enjoy you know and then you can tell your friends i told you so it could be more it'd be less of a wedding and more like a gloating opportunity yeah a victory lap that's a victory lap you're gonna do a party red white and blue yeah um but i my big thing is if you're gonna get married if you're gonna do this you know you need to both be super honest with yourself um that you both are just as excited like when I say the only reason two people should move in with each other before they get engaged or

they're married is because they're both mutually excited to do so so you both need to be mutually excited to do this you can have fears and you can have your reservations, but no one should be convincing the other person. You both have to be honest with yourself that you're speaking from the heart, so to speak. And if you have to give the other person permission to voice a concern or a frustration without getting defensive and making it about yourself, you kind of have to put all things on the table you know but if you are both mutually excited and committed to making this relationship work then you know people have made worse decisions for themselves

but what does your guts tell you i know i asked you and then kind of blew over that my gut from the start of this relationship has always been to do what, to basically do it, to kind of do what needs to be done to make this relationship a success. If we both want this relationship to work, because there are barriers and dating someone from a different country is not easy. There's, there's a physical barrier. So for me, it's, if we go down this route,

it's about the commitment to our relationship and what we want our future to be rather than thinking of it as an actual kind of marriage. Cause it's a, it should be a celebration. I've always wanted to be like a kind of a commitment ceremony, if you will, but quotation marks. So I'm excited for it.

Cause I'm excited about the future with Talia. I mean, I, I have friends who met unconventionally on a TV show, got married in a courthouse. She was Canadian. He is American. And then they, like a year later, had a wedding and a celebration.

They seem to be going great. I love them both. I think they're going to work out. Time will tell, so to speak, type of thing. You guys, your story isn't that much different. I think there's a lot to be said about saying, hey, I want to make it work with you. Because that's the only way relationships do work is to have that type of energy. Do you think people give up too quickly?

100%. Yeah. Especially nowadays. Yeah. But at the same time, I've've also you're also talking to someone who has a track record in the past of staying in relationships far too long because I was too stubborn to realize

that this relationship wasn't serving me and things like that so it is a balance but it sounds like your fights that you guys have had now like it's a big question these fights that you said you had now, like a big question, these fights that you said you had, do you feel like they were resolved or you feel like you guys just kind of

gave up out of exhaustion? No, we, we definitely, yeah, they were resolved. I've thought long enough about them and the therapy helped. It was mainly to do.

I think you touched on it earlier about someone giving up something and it's compromises and all that type of stuff and but it's a part of the relationship that we want and the reality is again like being from two different countries that compromises will have to happen and it's just a way that we need to communicate and i guess find a balance that we're both mutually happy with and agreeing with. That took time, I think, and that took difference. Well, yeah, it just took time to work through. And I think that we touched and we discussed earlier, the more that we argued, we're kind of like a 1% each time

getting a better understanding of each other and how we argue and how we communicate. So although the arguments weren't pleasant or nice, with each argument, we did actually become closer because we learn another percentage point about how the other communicates, how the other person argues, and actually what we're trying

and the messages we're trying to convey. I think that's significant. And I think that goes, we'll go far, that goes a lot further in determining your guy's success than how long you dated for prior to getting married. Because like arguments are useful things in relationship because depending on how you approach those arguments, it does. It hopefully allows you guys to get on the same page. The only reason why you're arguing is because you're not on the same page.

It's just like a notification of, hey, there's a disconnect here. And if you're in a relationship, the whole point of being in a relationship is to try not to have those disconnects because that's the whole point of relationship is to be connected. But too many people approach these arguments as like an opportunity to be right and have the other person apologize. And if, you know, it doesn't sound like that's how you guys approach it, that's a great sign, you know, and you just have to maintain't sound like that's how you guys approach it that's a it's a great sign you know and you just have to maintain that approach so that when you do argue that your first thought isn't to like make sure that you're understood when you guys are in a fight

the recognition in your relationship should be like my partner sees this situation differently and they are just as frustrated as i am and immediately putting yourself in their shoes so that the and and tell yourself that we're going to get through this argument by coming together with a mutual understanding not when someone like says i'm sorry you were right i was wrong i mean i guess unless someone like really like, you're mad because they just fucked up. But when it's like something you guys are just not seeing eye to eye, no one wins by one person, you know, conceding the flag and saying, you're right, I was wrong.

You know, I suck, you're the best. I'm the dumbest, you're the smartest. I think no one wins there. You know, that's where resentment comes in. Yeah. So if you guys have the confidence that you're willing to do that and and and these disagreements have brought you close together that's that's a great sign man you know i think you're as well equipped as any young

couple to move things fast as you know if you guys decide to do this you have to respect each other's decision to make decisions for themselves you didn't make the other person do that they made their own choice they were entitled to say no they didn't and they have to own that so you don't get to throw it in each other's face six months from now um so to speak you know tell a different version of your story you know it's a great story what do you mean it's a great story

if you guys get married don't be so self deprecating I feel like you guys are erring on like sometimes people go the opposite way they're like it's a fairy tale and it's perfect and they blow past all the other stuff and it feels like you guys are being so self-aware and so pragmatic train wreck you know like whatever it's just like no you're not you're you're you're two people who met unconventionally just realized there was a real special connection here and you've busted your ass

to make it work that sounds that's a nice little story. You know, that's better than, you know, we've still with that one. We've moved so fast and we're a bunch of, you know, crazy kids who have thrown caution to the wind. That doesn't sound like you've thrown caution to the wind, but it sounds like you've,

you know, met a person you didn't expect to meet and you're trying to fight for something you think is special. We tend to get the whole, it's a rom-com how you met. That's so cute. That's another kind of odd enough added pressure. Yeah.

Well, your relationship around us is so, well, they are, but as long as you guys aren't selling that, like feeding into that bullshit, because I always, your relationship,

your relationship doesn't care how you met. Yeah. It really does not. Your, your relationship will not care that you met on a plane and like you know serendipity like brought you back together on the dating apps it doesn't care that's not going to make you guys want to work through a fight

or come together and not try to win you know it won't but you guys seem to understand that and so I'm you know it was a process though it was it wasn't easy but yeah we've come out of it relationships aren't easy yeah yeah i feel like that's more reassuring and i know this is like the opposite of like objective helpful advice but like

i would bet on you guys or something about your energy that like i think feels really good where i'm like you guys seem really fucking happy and really self-aware and like I believe that it would be like totally work out yeah and Natalie and I aren't together because it's easy we're together because we work really hard on it there's a lot of aspects of relationship that are fun and easy and I'm assuming you guys for the most part really enjoy each other but every relationship takes a shit ton of work, especially nowadays. So working hard at a relationship is not a negative. Yeah. I don't think so.

That makes sense. Well, shit, man. Good luck. Thanks. Thanks for your vote of confidence. We appreciate it.

Yeah. Keep us posted. Just, just be honest with each other, you know, be, you know, don't, don't lie to yourselves, just be honest with each other, you know, be, you know, don't,

don't lie to yourselves. Don't lie to each other and, and don't make the other person feel judged for expressing fears and vulnerability. Cause sometimes when, when, when couples do that and you're like, Hey,

can I tell you something I'm worried about? And then the other person immediately makes it about them. You know, it's like, well, I thought you loved me. It's like, I do.

I'm just like feeling a little certain way. You know, that makes sense. We need to make space for each other to be honest yeah so it's a little scary sometimes yeah yeah all right well good luck keep us posted thank you we really appreciate it we are invested in this love story we'll invite you to the wedding all right right. Sounds good. The ceremony. All right. Thank you, guys. Take care, guys. Bye. Good luck. People, we know you've been putting off going to the doctor. We know it. Maybe it's that itch or that achy feeling or you haven't gone to the dentist in a while or maybe it's a dermatologist appointment you've been putting off.

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Thank God. If I have one call, it's that I like to talk about a relationship. Like I like to talk about how it's going. I like to debrief a little bit more frequently than he might think to. I cannot tell you how much paired has been and godsend for me. It is an app that you download. You get a code, then your partner downloads it. You send them your code. It's easy peas to get set up. And then there's so many fun questions. There's quizzes. There's various kind of discussion starters and connectivity prompts that you can both answer. Once you've both answered them, you get to see what the other person said.

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My name is Jenna. I'm 26. How can we help? I'm trying to figure out if my guy friend is into me. Okay. Tell us about this friend. So we've been, I'd say we've been friends for about over seven years. We've met through college, basically mutual friend. And we haven't been like, I should say close, close until the last year. I would say we've become a little bit more close. We live like about an hour apart from each other, as do a lot of our friends. We're all kind of spread out. So, but we still like probably all get together like once a month, sort of something like that.

But yeah, I would say like we went on our first like group trip last year. And it was just, it was only me and him we're the only single people on this trip um so I don't know being with a bunch of couples it's kind of weird kind of awkward at times so got to know him a little bit more started hanging out more and I just noticed him being more comfortable around me he's a very quiet guy let's just say it's very it's one of those people who's definitely more of a listener than the talker so it's very hard to keep a conversation going I've found but just like recently I feel like he's been more talkative and open with me. And at first I kind of take that as, oh, he's just become more comfortable with me and we've just built a stronger bond.

But then there's just been more touchiness, I guess, and flirtiness I've noticed in our last few conversations. Touching how? in our last few conversations touching how well just like if we're out at a bar or wherever like just arms around each other just hugging or whatever and I noticed he did that a few times and I'm like hmm am I overlooking this or is he looking for more reasons to become closer? I guess, if that makes any sense. So he placed his hand on the small of your back. Yeah. Unfortunately for you, I think that analogy is a little bit more when it comes to like strangers and guys at bars, you know.

Okay. more when it comes to like strangers and guys at bars you know okay for someone he has a rapport with depending on i don't think it's do you think it was unnecessary for him to do that like what was the reason he put his hand on the small your back or is he guiding you somewhere no he was getting by but the weird thing is there was lots of room to just get by. We weren't in a crowded spot, if that makes sense. There's a lot of... He's like, oh, sorry, I'm just cruising by here. Well, we haven't addressed the most important question.

How do you feel about him? I'll just say from the beginning and medium, he's a very attractive person for sure not just in his looks but the way he carries himself but I've never like looked into that further but since noticing things in the last year I've kind of started to see him in a different light I guess so I would say right now like I now, like I, there might be a little, there might be a little bit of feelings there on my end starting to form, but I'm also very guarded at the same time because I don't want, I am, well, I just fear rejection, I guess, in that sense.

If he called you up right now and said, I've been doing, I'm going to, I'm going to finally be honest with you. I've been doing nothing but thinking about you and I'd love to take you on a date. You would say yes. Yeah, I would say yes to that. Probably. Yeah. Okay. So I think we should just stop with the narrative of, I think I maybe possibly have friend feelings for my friend but no big deal if not it sounds like he's just a guy you've are very attracted to and would absolutely like but you don't know how he feels about you so you've just friend zoned him right with the information i have i can't give you an honest assessment. And I probably won't be able to.

Right. We can make a lot of guesses. Yeah. But you might just have to go ahead and put yourself out there. That's kind of what I'm thinking here. We actually have another trip coming up or whatever next week um this group what is this group that goes on all these vacations together it's just an excuse to get out of this small area that we live in i guess um i don't know we all just like to travel it's a very

extended friend group and it's just more people have kind of added into it or whatever but uh we're going south and yeah there's it's going to definitely be a little bit more there's going to be a lot of time alone if that makes sense um because again we just tell us what you're gonna do you don't have to be cryptic yeah what do you mean by a lot of time alone um we're sharing a room oh well how did that come how did yeah pray tell okay so when we were kind of booking all of this or whatever we both hadn't booked yet or whatever

and he said oh well well it just makes more sense it's cheaper if we just share a room or whatever are you good with that and I was like yeah sure are there two queen beds or one king bed there's two queens. Oh.

Call the hotel. No, it would have been very forward of him to be like, we're sharing a room and we're sharing a bed. You know, you can still sleep together in a queen bed if you want. That wasn't why I asked, though. Because if he sees this friendship, is this that, a platonic friendship, then as a friend, he'd have no problem ask you to share a room there wouldn't be a you know it would be like okay you know i'm an adult

i can share a room with a woman without it being inappropriate or weird and etc etc you know so yeah no i'm just saying it's not like definitely a bet it's not like because there's two queen beds it's certainly non-romantic is all i'm saying the big question you got to ask yourself is someone because here's how i see it you haven't been totally honest with yourself the past year you've always liked him you've always had a crush on him you have suppressed those feelings in order to maintain a friendship with him and now as the relationship has evolved and you've gotten to know him even more you like him even more and now you actually have a rapport as friends but now that he has gotten comfortable with you, you are having a hard time reading. You are having a hard time distinguishing between, is it just comfortability on the

part of a platonic friend or is it him acting differently with you and trying to give you signals that maybe there's some mutual interest? Yeah, pretty much. Yeah. yeah yeah and i don't really know the answer yeah that's it's tricky because you also don't want to ruin something well let me add either well no yeah you're not ruining anything and maybe maybe this vacation group you might be ruining that um yeah but like how long are you gonna pretend to have a crush on a guy with and be friends with them and share a hotel room it's just like you're getting into torture mode yeah no you're you're

correct on that so i when he first asked i was like, absolutely. And then as weeks have got on, I'm like, oh, yeah, that might not be the best decision. I mean, so what do you think? Do you think his, these things, these signals, as you call it, what do you, like, what is your, do you think, are you hoping that there's something more than, you know, like what's the most confusing he's ever been? I guess the most confusing thing is he has, when we're talking, it's like really great

eye contact, really great conversation. And we're like, we just have very similar humor and we're laughing and whatever. And we're like, we just have very similar humor and we're laughing and whatever. But then when it comes down to we're actually more alone or it's like the end of the night, he seems almost standoffish and just like awkward and off. Just like not as conversational, I guess I would say, and just more kept to himself. He just seems awkward or shy or something. It's just, that's where I'm getting a lot of mixed signals is like, what do you mean at the end of the night when we hang out or whatever? And I should say, because we all live like in such different areas, if we're going out for an evening or whatever, a lot of the time we all

stay at someone's house, like spare rooms or wherever. And when it's like end of the night kind of deal where I'm kind of sensing that maybe something's going to happen, he kind of just seems really awkward. And like, is he like giving me signals that he wants to hook up? And then like, I don't know, I start reciprocating that. And then at the end, near the end of the night or when most people be going to bed or whatever, he just seems like really awkward and like shut off. So that's where I'm like, hmm,

I don't know what's going on in his head. All right, well, the big question is, what's the approach here for for our lovely caller i don't think we tell them before it's either during or after yeah i feel like maybe you could put out what if you don't wear any clothes whenever you're in the room oh perfect oh i'm sorry just like when i'm at home i just i'm naked you could call the hotel cancel one of the beds get there be like what what the room only has one bed and then see how he responds it's like a classic book talk scenario no but even like again i i've had platonic women friends that i absolutely do not did not want to

have relations with and i could have shared a bed with them and then been like you know i could have been an adult about it you know i'm like all right well let's okay like i've shared i've shared a bed with my male friends i don't want to fuck them. You know what I'm saying? I got through the night. But were you getting like really awkward and nervous around these friends? I don't know. I guess it's just, it potentially, I just don't know how clearly she's reading the signals,

so to speak. Here's a, here's a question for you. What are the chances he's aware of how you might feel um that is a good question how self-aware do you think he is the reason i asked that question is because regardless of what i thought about my platonic friendships if i for a second ever thought that there might be even like i've i've had platonic friendships with women that deep down. I thought to myself,

I guess I wonder if I liked them, would they like me back? And my gut told me probably maybe, but because I, I made it very clear where I stood, I wasn't worried about them doing anything. But given that I was always very careful about the possibility. I would never have suggested sharing a hotel room on the outside chance that it could be read as a missed signal.

But I just don't know how self-aware he is. Yeah. No, that's a good question and that's i don't know how self-aware aware he is it's just one of those things he's if you ask any one of our friends no one really knows what's going on up there how many of your friends aware of your crush one what do they think they are also very unsure um again because he's such a hard person to read he's very much he keeps to himself um i because i asked her the one time when we were all out drinking and whatever. And she's like, I don't know. I think he's, I think that's just drunk him. That's just how he is around everyone. And then I got to thinking like, okay, what is he like sober? I'm like, no, he's about the same. So she was really unsure as

well and didn't know what to really think of it. So that just, it didn't really help. So I never brought it up to anyone else. What do you think, how do you think you should handle it? I think you should be, um, and I say like using the word gaslight very playfully here. I think you should be flirty, but in a way where you could kind of gaslight him about it after the fact. If you're really scared of rejection and you really don't want to like, and I don't that's pretty maybe not healthy advice but i think if you're really worried about ruining the friendship feeling weird having it be tainted like meet him where he's at maybe advance it a little bit like touch his arm or something if he says something funny like like little things

like that where you could totally play it off if needed but that would also be like a green flag so if that's what he's been trying to put down he would feel like you're picking it up that's pretty good right yeah flirt with him up your game yeah yeah i think i yeah i need to do that i think that's good advice um and then yeah if he's like what are you doing be like what are you what are you talking about act dumb yeah you know like i mean so don't do anything you're not comfortable with but you're sharing a hotel room together and all jokes aside like you can show a little bit more skin and you can leave the bathroom door open or whatever you want to fucking do and then if he makes a thing about it you can be like they're just boobs you know we're friends you know you could literally act dumb about it i was gonna say you could sit on his bed at some point you know like even just like putting on shoes just

kind of like sitting on the edge of his bed if you're gonna do it just fucking do it i you know Your advice is tits out in the bathroom. My advice is to... People are so... And this whole... This is not the first time we had a... I don't know how to read these signals. And I don't think the solution to having a hard time reading each other's signals is to continue to be more cryptic and subtle.

So I don't think sitting on the edge of his bed is gonna like clear the air i just mean if you're less comfortable having tits out you should do whatever you're comfortable with i and i'm not saying you know i'm just saying i i i just think you should just like be like overly flirty to the point of like oh sorry i was drunk you know maybe pretend to be drunk and be certain we're flirty so you can blame it on being drunk I don't I don't know but I think you got to try to make it a little more obvious right to give yourself

closure yes like you have to give yourself you have to behave in a way where you're like okay the fact that he did not kind of meet me where I was at or escalate this anymore means he is definitely not into me like you have to make sure he is like the door is wide open for him to make things a little bit

more like flirty romantic it's almost like you should flirt so much that you're sharing a hotel room on a trip and so I think your ego can survive you essentially through your actions of flirtation pitching a fuck buddy situation

right but i don't think you should that's that's not in fact that's not what you're pitching right right but your flirtingness what might lead him to suggest that you are and so if he's turns that down you already have your answer because he's a guy right and if he's interested in being in a relationship with you then he's interested in also being your fuck buddy you know so what i'm saying is flirt with him where he might think that's on the table and then but don't don't just have sex with them to have sex with them you know am i making sense no definitely not yeah absolutely but what i'm saying is if he turns that yeah if he turns that down then you he's not all he's you're just and then you can just say no i

don't want a fuck buddy situation so then you can still have a little power there um and then if he's like why are you like why are you acting weird like I don't know I'm on vacation who gives a shit yeah right yeah it's vacation me yeah yeah I think like if when there's like one or two nights left of the trip like

assess how he's been responding to what you've been doing and then think like should i take it up a notch there's only like one night left if he like turns me down then i can like bear sleeping in the same room as him for one more night and if not then i i think the girls might uh disagree with me um but do you trust me with me um but do you trust me what what if what if what if step one does he is he active on social media yeah he is all right has he posted anything that you thought he was attractive looking and um yeah but like probably hasn't posted i could look at her that's actually fine

I don't think he's even better go to a photo even if it's doesn't matter if it's six months old even better you you want to make it a little obvious and just reply to that photo and say, you look really hot here. Oh, God. First of all, friends call each other hot. So you're not completely out of yourself. But the point, you got to start, you got to get the ball rolling here. Yeah.

You know? Yeah. When is this trip again? Like next week. Next week. Yeah. And how long? It's time then. Right?

So we agree with you? Yeah. It's time to start. So let's do that right now. Let's do that right now. Oh, we's time then. Right, so we agree with you? Yeah, it's time to start. So let's do that right now. Let's do that right now. We won't air this, but what's his Instagram? It's... He's private.

I can't really see what he looks like. Do you want me to show pictures on the camera? Yeah, could you? Kind of. Just so we can help you figure out which one to reply to. Yeah. How cute. What else we got?

Also just be the one where you actually think he looks hot. Great. Yeah. Handsome. So send him that photo. Okay. Do you think he looks hot and great yeah handsome so send him that photo okay do you think she should screenshot and text it or just like reply to his

inbox yeah to say you look really you look really hot here okay he's gonna be like what the well then you'll have your answer I also and if he's like if he's like be like what the well then you'll have your answer I also and if he's like if he's like on the

trip like why did you send me like why did you message me that you can be like oh I was just talking about you with a friend so I was like looking for a photo because I want to bang well did you do it okay okay it's done

all right good job I'm so excited about this listen just keep that energy going you're just flirting with him you can always play dumb to protect your ego but this isn't the end of the world here no yeah what you don't want is to continue to be have this obsession slash friendship grow that is never really addressed and you get kind of more and more down this like rabbit hole and you kind of dilute yourself into and be invested in a relationship that doesn't exist so i think yeah that's yeah you're you're right on that like yeah it's there's too much

time and energy and overthinking going on here and i needed to address that yeah would you if you could have sex with him just once, would you? Probably, yeah. I mean, like, yeah, probably. Well, don't do it unless, well, do whatever you want. But I just don't want you to get attached. Yeah. I don't want him to think it's just a hookup when, you know, especially since you have feelings. Yeah. think it's just a hookup when you know especially since you have feelings yeah but just flirt with him more on this trip make it more obvious and fun and just like have it be vacation you um yeah and then afterwards i don't know maybe just call us back with an update we'll go from there

oh i yeah i will i'll uh i'll let you know what happens there in a few weeks if you if you go on this vacation and you do whatever version you think is flirting and then you come back and assuming you haven't like shot your shot or he didn't like give you a clear answer one way or the other call us back and we'll go from there. Okay. Sounds good. All right. Well, good luck. Have fun on your trip and, uh,

thank you. Keep the, keep the flirting going. Yeah. Stay flirty. Yeah. Stay flirty. Yeah,

we'll do. Thanks so much guys. All right. Sounds good. Bye. Bye. Good luck. Great.

See you. Bye. Thanks for listening. Don't forget to send in those questions at ask nick at the valve files.com we'll see you tomorrow for another episode of reality recap with the one and only cammy crawford and again on wednesday we're moving it up a day going deeper with lindsey hubbard talking about her tragic end of her engagement with her ex-fiance Carl, the two mainstays at Summer House. It's their own Scandival.

And we got the exclusive with Lindsay. So we'll see you in the next few days. Bye.