The Viall Files - E665 Going Deeper with Lindsay Hubbard (Not a 1950s Housewife) Plus Bravocon and Flying Air Canada

Episode Date: November 8, 2023

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Going Deeper Edition! First, the household gets together to discuss some recent experiences - like flying Air Canada - and recent pop culture headlines like Special Forces and Bravocon. Then, we are joined by Summer House’s Lindsay Hubbard to talk about her devastating breakup with Carl Radke. We walk through their relationship - from friends to fiancés - and what led up to their on-camera breakup. Who knew before? Who helped her overcome the heartache? And who is living in their apartment?  We also have a Texting Office Hours caller who  “I had to change everything about me to be with him.” Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes. Join us for our new LIVE show on Thursdays at 9PM ET/6PM PT on Amp, available in the Apple app store. Android User? Listen here: https://www.onamp.com/   To Order Nick’s Book Go To: http://www.viallfiles.com  If you would like to get some texting advice on Office Hours send an email to [e-mail] with “Texting Office Hours” in the subject line! To advertise on the show, contact [e-mail] or visit https://www.advertisecast.com/TheViallFiles  THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Shopify - Sign up for a one-dollar-per-month trial period at https://shopify.com/viall, ALL LOWERCASE. Uncommon Goods - To get 15% off your next gift, go to https://uncommongoods.com/VIALL  Drizly - Download the Drizly app or go to https://www.Drizly.com to choose your drinks today. Must be 21+, not available in all locations. IQ Bar - Now, our special podcast listeners get twenty percent off all IQBAR products, plus get FREE shipping. To get your twenty percent off, just text FILES to 64000. Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @nnataliejjoy @lindshubbs @alison.vandam @liffordthebigreddog @dereklanerussell @genevievegoodman 

what's going on everybody welcome back to a new and explosive episode of the vile files i'm your host nick joined by the household genevieve am Amanda, Derek, Allie is back in Minneapolis. We got Justin. We got in my love, love, love, my pop culture correspondent, fiance, Nellie Joy is with us. In my love, love, love. We have just an explosive episode today. Don't forget Elegant Vitale.

And Elegant Vitale. Elegant Vitaly. And Elegant Vitaly. Yeah. We'll call back to our last episode. We named our baby. So go check out our episode with Cammie Crawford. Yeah. Some real spoilers. Lindsay Hubbard is here.

It has arrived. So much so that, yeah, it's Wednesday. I know we usually drop these episodes on Thursday. This is not a new norm. This is just special because we know BravoCon happened. There's a lot of tea out there. We had the pleasure of talking to Lindsay, and boy, she activated us. Absolutely.

You will be activated. Absolutely. Just like Lindsay likes it, I think. Because I think it's something where I'm always reminded talking to someone post-breakup, like how fresh things are. And I think you can read facts. And then when you hear it from the source, it's like, oh my God, it is so much more humanizing and intense when you think about someone literally going through this and not just being like, Oh yeah, this is the timeline of events. Yeah. You know, what's so interesting about this, this episode and, you know, so much of the focus was like how it all went down, like Carl,

how Carl did it, the fact that it was on a TV show, you know, with all the talks in Bravo world with Bethany and talking about the reality TV reckoning, you know, we talk about obviously reality TV on the show all the time. And we talk about, you know, you know, we talk about, obviously, reality TV on the show all the time, and we talk about, you know, we're always having conversations. Is it the edit? Do we have to hold the cast accountable?

You know, Lindsay knows what she signed up for. You know, she's a pro, in a sense. And she's accepted that she wants to be a part of this world. She wants to be a part of this show. And she obviously has a lot of thoughts and feelings about this breakup but i really respected the fact that her focus was on carl and the cast she never used the show or you know production you know as an excuse like yeah it's

easy to get frustrated at them but they're all making a TV show. Like she, Carl could have not chose to do what he did, you know, regardless of what production said to him. Those were his choices. And I really respect the hell out of Lindsay for focusing the breakup, despite many of her pains being the fact that it was part of the show and how Carl went about it. I really like that she focused her energy on holding the right person accountable and not using, you know, what's going on in the news as a way to kind of, you know, bitch and complain about things that, you know, she might think will add to her cause,

but she didn't. And I really respect respect that so i'm excited for you guys to listen to it but we have a little bit more to get into yeah i was gonna say well speaking about bitching you had a frustrating airport experience is that right air canada hates pregnant women oh that's a bold claim maybe they just hate people i don't know know. But I'm pretty sure they definitely hate pregnant women. What did they do? It was it was it was the worst

it was the worst moment of my pregnancy I think. I we are in Toronto

for Alex Cooper. She did her Call Her Daddy podcast tour. We were her special guests. It was absolutely amazing. Lovely time.

Lovely trip. Everything's great. Car service picks us up at 5.45 a.m. on Monday morning. Good morning. Good morning. We have an 8 a.m. flight. We're supposed to get back to L.A. at like 10.30 a.m. It is great, right?

Great timing. Love it. Flying first class. Got the lay down beds. Coming up. Yeah. It is great. Right. Great timing. Love it. Flying first class. Got the lay down bed coming up. Yeah. Alex Cooper treated us right. And so we get to the airport and we're like, oh, we need to add Steve, our new puppy, to our reservation. And because I called Air Canada before we left L.A. and was like, hey, what are like the rules?

I don't know. You know. And they said, just get to the airport with enough time to add him, pay for it, and add him to your reservation. So that is what we did. We walk up to the front desk. Now, Nellie and I always try to go out of our way to approach the counter with smiles. A big howdy-do, how is your day? We try to be engaging. Howdy-do. Howdy-do, how's your day? We try to be engaging.

Howdy-do. Howdy-do. Can we rub your feet? Yeah. Can we do back scratch? We find that a little bit of smiles and conversation can go a long way. You know, the people who work at airports, it's a mixed bag. And I will say, nine times out of ten, I've met some really lovely people behind the counter.

You know, like when your bag is two pounds overweight and they're like, I'll let it slide. You know, you can tell that the people work behind the counter have the ability to help you if they want to. They can make an exception. If they don't want to. This particular young lady who is working behind counter 12-5. Call her out. No, I fucking hate this person. Okay.

You could just tell it was like she was looking for a reason not to let us on our flight. So right off the bat, she's like, oh, well, well, I have to see if it's a full flight because there might be something with the weight. I've heard this before, like weight bag shifting around. For Steve. There might be a full flight of already in-cabin pets. Oh, whatever that means. I don't this before, like weight bag shifting around. For Steve. For Steve. There might be a full flight

of already in-cabin pets. Oh, whatever that means. I don't know. Steve weighs four pounds. Okay. Okay. But you could just tell her energy was just

looking for something. And we were trying to make conversation with her, ignoring us. Then she almost like, it was like bad news when she was like, oh, well, no,

it looks like it's gonna be okay. Yeah, okay. Okay. And then it was like, oh, well, no, it looks like it's going to be okay. Yeah. Okay. Okay. And then it was like, oh, sorry. You're past check-in. Your flight's in 84 minutes. I'm like, yeah. Cool. We're here. We're ready. No check bags, by the way. We're not checking any bags. No, sorry. If you don't check in 90 minutes prior to your flight, we can't do anything about it can't get on your flight i'm like are you are you punking us i'm like no you're kidding right

because you'd been there you'd been at the airport so here's at the 90 minute mark right no actually we i don't know but maybe maybe we showed up at the 90 minute mark i don't know and her talking to us and adding steve and whatever like we were like a few minutes late but that apparently doesn't matter. Had we checked in online prior to arriving in the airport and still showed up with like, I don't know, 60 minutes left, let's say.

It had nothing to do with us physically being there at all. Oh. No. And they were just like, sorry, there's nothing we can do. And they were like, no, you're literally punking us.

Natalie's like crying, obviously pregnant, tired. Well, I start crying because she says, we're there again. It's 6 a.m. She's like, well, the next flight is at 710 tonight. Tonight. Tonight, 7 p.m. And she says it with a smile on her face.

It's also, it is easy to cry at the airport. It is so easy. I am always on the verge of tears at the airport. I can't imagine adding pregnancy to the mix. Like, I'm sobbing. Yeah, no, I was sobbing. No, they didn't care. And it was clearly just like a problem that could have simply just been fixed by the click of a mouse.

But there it is. And she literally told us, she's like, well, in the past, I could have helped you out. But like, I just don't want to get in trouble or something. I'm like, well, can you please go speak to a manager? Yeah. Then she like huffs and puffs grabs our passports and like leaves for 10 minutes as if we inconvenienced her 10 minutes though so we're adding so we're adding more time she finally comes back with two people like this manager and

it gives us this and they're they're literally lying to us because i'm like can you like there's we saw like the check- line. It was moving quickly. And I'm like, can we just we can we don't have a check bag. We're like ready to get on our flight. Like, yeah, let's go. They're like, nope, sorry. There's nothing we can do. You know, just it's it's a policy.

And I'm like, and I'm like, we're right here. Like, why can't you just let us go? Like, can't you just, you know, press a button? And I'm like, and I'm trying to understand. I'm like, so you're telling me had I checked in online and showed up. Yeah. 20 minutes from now, that would have been fine. They're like, yeah.

Yeah. She said it's written all over our website. It's all over our website that we recommend showing up three hours prior to your flight. So we look on the website and it says 90 minutes. There is fine print at the bottom of the website. 90 minutes, there is a cutoff. If you don't make it, you will likely miss your flight. Likely. I'm like, what does likely mean? And they're like, sorry, we won't make any exceptions. But what about that likely part? That likely tells me you have the option

to let us on if you want. We're like in a sheer panic at this point yeah um and then she says okay well um there are phones over there where you can go and make your next reservation for your next flight and it's like well you can't help us and the guy goes sorry there's a line full of people who are trying to make their flight i'm like that's what we're trying to do then so they like they just said basically tell us to fuck off and i have a video of this lady like later like 10 minutes later after we figured out it was probably longer than 10 minutes just like fucking around the counter like mocking passengers and just doing literally nothing just like fucking around what do you mean mocking passengers it's alarming yeah i'll show

you she was like doing like this runway catwalk and she was like and then I'll show you she's like waving her own pass it got so bad that I holding the panties I was like in this panic I'm like here's my pregnant fiance we have a dog we have my pregnant

fiance and they're like sorry you can't leave for 13 hours you know and they're like, sorry, you can't leave for 13 hours. You know, and they're like, nothing we can do. You know, whatever. The guy, her manager's like, sorry, but like, we just can't let you in because they're like, there's paperwork, there's customs, there's all the, we, by the, when we finally went through check-in

and customs, because in Toronto, you go to customs, U.S. customs in Toronto to like, save time on the other side, whatever. Six minutes. And then our flight the original flight was delayed 20 minutes 20 minutes so that flight they wouldn't let us on because we were six minutes too late was delayed 20 minutes i didn't give a fuck oh my god and this was despite their themselves because ultimately what they do is canceled our our reservation got our money back

and then booked us on like economy so we had to like you know we were you know there's no first class available so eventually we got on an earlier flight had to sit in the fucking back of the plane okay whatever um so we were stuck in Toronto for like five hours instead of 13 so that you know worked out but like every step of the way, every person who works for Air Canada actively doesn't want to help you. They don't. They get off on not helping you. And they just condescendingly

just recite these fucking policies. The guy said to me, so sir, you want me to break our policy? I go, that's exactly what I'm asking you to do. That would be a huge help if you could go ahead and click that mouse and just allow us to check in. Because you're literally telling me if I did this seven minutes earlier online without even being here, I didn't even have to be here. Right.

It would have been fine. But because your system says, nope, you're just telling me to fuck off. Especially with no backdrop involved. Because backdrop, I kind of get why it's like a really hard cut off of like we have to load the bags at this point this is not a check-in thing yeah this wasn't like yeah in the united states yeah if you're trying to check a bag and it's 45 minutes or like sorry we we don't have time to get your bag on the plane right like our our intricate system of conveyor belts this was just a technical computer.

And they literally said like, well, it's our systems kind of automatic. They clearly have the ability to override this. It's so obvious that they do. They were just like, no, we don't care.

And I think what made me so frustrated is that no one throughout this process, I'm obviously sobbing and no one is like, I'm so sorry. I'm sure this is frustrating. Like no one tried to reason it was just like no hate it for you but like you can go over there and call no sex to suck sucks literally that's how they were like truly fuck air canada it's like as if all they'd say like

canadians are so nice and we had a lovely time but it's like every bad apple got like shipped over to air fucking canada and it's like they couldn't get a job as a parking meter. So they decided to work for Air Canada because the people who work for Air Canada are the people who like to ruin people's day. When you say work as a parking meter, you mean a meter meter. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry.

No, I was like sick burn. I'm an active. You can get a fucking job standing there taking quarters in your mouth. No, but the same people get like part off parking tickets. Like there's certain people in this world that like enjoy bringing sadness to others they get off on it like it makes them feel like little you know well i think just little small people who are just like sad and pathetic and you want to feel like the gatekeepers of law and order yeah i think is what it comes down to like i think it comes down to like this really like this need

for control and liking for there to be rules and liking to be like nobody's above the law and it's like but sometimes people are above the law and i thought i thought i would offend my you know canadian friends because i was like fuck you air canada on instagram and i knew that you were mad because this was black screen white text like you did not even go for like an orange gradient. This was create mode in a fury. I was so fucking mad. You thought you might offend Canadian friends? Yes. And my DMs ever since I posted every Canadians like fuck Air Canada.

That's a problem. No competition. Competition matters because that's no Air Canada has like two fucking major airlines. It's basically Air Canada, I guess. And that's, that's no air canada has like two fucking major airlines it's basically air canada i guess and that's that's what happens when you have no other options they're like fuck you we don't care you're gonna fly us anyways speaking of competitions speaking of competitions how this is this episode of special forces first of all it's back finally got some airtime thank god yeah this whole episode was like nick yeah it was a lot of me um yeah this was it was brutal it was what do you remember about that like well what i remember is like they bizarrely showed the whole episode this was the

most edited episode i saw and i you know they have to make a tv show whatever i mean they they captured the meat of it they just showed everything out of order so how they basically aired it was they woke up you know we're all struggling and they had the first thing they aired was us flying up into the mountains and they were trying to like emphasize the extreme conditions of being in the mountains like don't get me wrong it was fucking cold it was colder than not being in the mountains but apparently they wanted to make it seem like it was the Antarctic or something. So they aired the leopard walk. I'm like, you see me shaking. Well, that's not why I was shaking.

I was shaking because in reality, the thing that they aired at the end, the bee sting, where they were on that course, that was actually in the morning. So the way they aired it, it makes it seem like I hypothermia from like carrying tom on my shoulder for a you know a mile like i was actually like pretty fucking sweaty then you know so i didn't really like that it just really really makes sense to me i don't know if people for people watching it because i assume people who watch it aren't watching obviously as closely as i am and they weren't there they don't't know what happens. Being on the show definitely reminds me, when we recap these shows and cast are complaining about edit, I can obviously appreciate what it's like to be like frustrating to see things out of order but nevertheless they aired the relative things and they have a tv show to make so whatever but the hypothermia came from the bee sting which they showed at the end which was us and you could tell like if you watched it

like they're like it's nighttime and it was clearly the sun was coming up like you know it was like weird shit like that when they had me carry tom like we had to carry tom and bode for like a half mile i dropped tom and i asked for help for like um and jojo to her credit like rushed over jack was having none of it and jojo put tom on her shoulder for like 10 feet now for like to jojo's credit like you know tom's close to 200 fucking pounds and JoJo's, I don't know how much she weighs, but that's a lot of weight. So she, to her credit, ran over, put Tom on her shoulders,

and she went like 10 feet. And I'm like, all right, I'll take him the rest. Well, they make it seem like on the show that JoJo comes in and carries him the rest of the fucking way. Nick passes him off to JoJo and she's like, ooh, ooh, ooh. All the way to the end.

They showed the same clip of her twice because they only had 10 feet of her doing I'm texting her you motherfucker she's like I knew you'd hate that but yeah it was a great episode I feel like people are getting I've heard this I heard this from our friend Fran

over at chicks in the office who's watching it I think people and I heard this from Amy Kaufman friend of show I think people, and I heard this from Amy Kaufman, friend of show, I think fans are getting tired of seeing Tom do kind of well. You know? And it's interesting because, like, he did well on the challenges,

and you'll see kind of what happens. I'm curious how they'll show how things end for Tom. You know, not to give anything away. It ends for all of us. But, you know, when it came to the challenges, Tom, he's a grinder. You know, they're not showing these little moments where he is Tom Sandoval. Like, for example, at the end of the day. So in reality, what it really started with is us waking up.

We did that bee sting for 45 minutes. We're jumping in the trough of frozen water. And we had to jump in the trough every time we did the circuit. So by the time we were done, the trough was empty because we were just like tracking so much out. Yeah. Tracking so much out. And you saw Bodhi like with his hands.

They were we were all frozen. Yeah. That's how I got hypothermia. So the day started with that. And I was hyperthermic in the morning. Then we had to go up the mountains and then i had to do the leopard walk and then they didn't show after the leopard walk we're in the mountains and they're like fuck you guys you guys suck we had to run up the hill

like two or three times hold our bergens over our head for like two or three minutes uh and we were just gassed after that they just edited that out they didn't even show that uh flew back then they had to we had to do the fireman walk where I had to carry Tom. Tyler, just an absolute beast. Just freaking running with Bodhi on his back. Just an absolute machine. Every step and Tyler's just silent.

Silent. Just running. Well, yeah, I made some weird fucking noises. But those noises were at the very end. They make it seem like it's the whole way through. I'm like, okay. The whole time I'm videoing Nick on screen because i'm like trying to get clips of him on screen he's just bitching in the background being like that's not how it was happening so all you bachelor uh alumni's that are mad at me when we recap this show i hear you i understand you i empathize

but you know we have a job to do um and so, yeah. So then we got done with that. I had my interrogation that day. And then at the very end, when they called us out and they made it seem like we did the beasting thing, we had to build a fort. So they split us up into two teams and we had to build forts out of like sandbags and tires. So it was just an hour of filling sandbags, carrying sandbags. It was just more physical activity.

That's where I had to like shake Tom. I had to grab Tom and shake him and be like you gotta calm down because we got done with her fort and it was me jack tom and tyler and tyler being construction jack he seems to know everything we just let the you know they we had a good fort and so we won the fort whatever no big deal but like we were done and we had like we had to use all the equipment on the grounds and so yeah we had there was like more tires and more sandbags available and tom's like we got to use more stuff i'm like no we're like we're good and like he's like freaking out and i had to like grab him i'm like you have to calm down and it was like little moments like that where they're just not showing tom just kind of like losing his shit every now and then and someone like telling him to like relax or calm down and things like that where they're just not showing Tom just kind of like losing his shit every now and then

and someone like telling him to like relax or calm down and things like that which not that he was looking bad per se it's just like they're just there's so many little things they just don't have time to get to but I think it's like it's getting frustrating for all the all the fans of like the Bravo fans who like are tuning in wanting to see like Tom get his ass kicked or struggle like Tom's doing pretty well. And I think it's almost backfiring on on Fox Special Forces in a way. I don't know because they're they're like, I don't want to see Tom like rise to the occasion and do well. And these have certainly had a couple moments where he did that. Oh my.

Did you, speaking of Tom Sandoval, BravoCon this weekend was everybody's pants? Wait, skirt. He didn't have pants. He wore a skirt. Oh, I thought they were like

what the men in the olden days wear. It's like the big... Like pantaloons? Yeah, I don't know. What do they call them? Jean pantaloons. Yeah, no,

it was like a kilt. I thought it was a kilt. I thought it was a kilt. I thought it was a kilt, too. I thought they were like long, big, puffy shorts. Oh, yeah, like wide-legged. You just thought he had puffy shorts on? To be fair, he totally would do that. He would.

The man would. He totally would do that. When he did the push-up contest with James. I feel like he kind of lost that, did he? He totally did. He did. James was like lifting a leg up up and then he was like lifting an arm up like he was going so much faster maybe his form wasn't i i watched that video yeah did you see that there was it seemed like there was some drama about sheena spending a lot of time with tom sandoval in his like hotel

room and then she was saying she was quote defending Ariana but it just it makes me question like what are what is the state of the union for the Vanderpump cast because before it was so clearly everyone's pissed at Tom he fucked up he's a pariah and now it's like in this middle ground have some people forgiven him like Lala saying stop

booing him or stop being mean to him yeah I agree with Lala I think the cast all really doesn't give a shit anymore, other than maybe Ariana. And I think the cast is kind of playing the game of trying to take the pulse of their fans, you know? And I think a lot of the hate that Tom got from the cast, at least over time, was somewhat performative.

Not all. Like, some people truly despise him katie doesn't have anything nice to say about him anytime we talk to katie you know i think there's a genuine disinterest from katie's part but you know sheena's been friends with tom you know i think some of these other people have hung out with tom and i think it takes a lot of energy to stay angry and i think also, these are a bunch of people who don't give a fuck about cheating, a lot of them. You know, so how,

it's one thing to put on a good show at the reunion and, you know, mouth off, but, like, do you really think that, like, James and some of these other people who are just waking up every day just holding up this anger and hatred to Tom in their heart? Like, there's not, you know? And I think they're just trying to figure out what's, like, how to handle it

as it relates to what the fans expect of them. You know, when I talk to Tom with Special Forces or I see him, it's just like, you know, Tom and I aren't going out and hanging out. We aren't becoming best buds and, like, making, like, videos together. But, like, you know what i'm saying like i just there's no point in like if you if you can't be around him without name calling him or beating him down there's there's there's no point in being around him like i don't think at this point constantly telling tommy's a piece of shit is healthy or you know good for anyone it's just

revenge at that point yeah it's like cathartic like as you just trying to get stuff out because it's true that I don't know if you want to actually change someone's mind usually you have to be somewhat close to them so that way they'll listen to you and so it kind of begs the question of like if there's this force level of interaction because of shooting Vanderpump are some people taking the path of like well if I actually want to get through to you if i actually want to have meaningful conversations i do need i can't just be like yelling at you the whole time and so it yeah it kind of begs the question like how are people it's there needs to be some sort of turn you know like this is tom gonna grow from this or not i don't't know. And I guess also with Ariana, like, when does she become indifferent?

Because she doesn't seem indifferent yet. And I think Ariana's going to be the decision maker with a lot of the rest of the cast and the fans. Like, when Ariana says it's okay not to hate Tom, then other people will fall in line,

I think. I feel like it's time to let it go. I feel like there have been times where I think my friends have forgiven someone for something nasty, and I've been like, I will not forgive you for what you did to my friend. There's a difference between forgive

and just like, I'm indifferent now. I don't think that she should forgive him and be best friends and hang out with him. There's a difference between Tom's doing his thing, I'm not really interested in Tom tom i've moved on i'm dating versus like still taking the opportunity to shame or ridicule or express anger and vitriol towards him you know and i just feel like indifference is like the way to go at this point in the game for everyone on that cast i don't know

or maybe they just have to keep it going for season 11 i don't fucking know i'm sure season 11 she's still angry at him and that kind of is like part of the drama and part of why people want to tune in they still live together is that at what point does that become kind of nutty? Well, I think like she said, they're just super busy. Come on. Come on. Well, I haven't bought a house before. I haven't sold a house before. How much?

It feels like maybe that's like the kind of thing where like there would be a real estate person who'd be like, hold out this amount of time. I mean, I will say Katie and Tom. Yeah, yeah exactly can't they help them give them some pointers no one's saying there wouldn't be inconveniences here or they wouldn't you know this is this is not what either of them wanted right especially ariana and she didn't want tom to she and her it sounds like she wanted to stay in that relationship and she wanted to live in their house it didn't work out that way but to be able to live in the same house and while allegedly simultaneously like not be not be willing to speak to someone it's just it's not adding up it's and it seems like in the tiny little sneak peek teaser that they dropped for vanderpump

season 11 where it's like just like a few clips of scenes one of them is lisa vanderpump being like it's seemingly like trying to have lala and sheena like empathize with tom a little bit more where she's like he lost all of his friends he lost his business and it's like i don't know that she's ultimately defending him but it's clear that she's trying to like there's nothing to do with defending him at this point what he did was wrong he's we've we've covered that you just got to hold him accountable for making different choices in his life and not look the other way or turn a blind eye when you see him being a piece of shit. But if you were his friend in the past,

you should be allowed to try to be their friend and try to see if he's willing to turn a page. And if they think he's a lost cause, I guess they can say that and just say, I don't really want anything to do with him. I don't believe anything he says. But I think there's a lost cause, I guess they can say that and just say, I don't really want anything to do with him. I don't believe anything he says. But I think there's a difference between that and still going out of your way to throw punches at him,

so to speak. Well, Ariana, in the clip where she's yelling, you ruined my life, you ruined my home, and then tried to kill my fucking dog. Yeah, what was that about? I'm curious. I mean, she's still throwing punches. She's still throwing. But as I would, too, if someone tried to kill my fucking dog. Yeah, what was that about? I'm curious. I mean, she's still throwing punches. She's still throwing...

But I would too if someone tried to... Well, I want to know what that story is. Did Tom really try to kill her dog? Is this the dog that has already passed? Charlotte? No, I don't think this is Charlotte. No, they had two dogs. They had two dogs.

So this... Well, I mean, she could this could have been a. A crime that was revealed to Ariana after the fact, you know, maybe she found out that Tom did something in the past and you try to kill my motherfucking dog two years ago. I didn't even realize. Right. It feels like this is like in sequential order, though, like first you were in my life. Now you're ruining my home and then you tried to kill my dog. Like it's like that's how it happened. Yeah. I feel like it was something recent. There is. I could be wrong. Because they are still living

in the same house together so I'm sure the dog is still there. There is that. So like what if he was like I'm not feeding this dog ever. It seems unlikely. You're trying to kill my dog by starvation.

Yeah. Like what is trying to kill? I think he accidentally dropped some chocolate. Yeah. I think being very reckless. He was just like eating some chocolate. Yeah, I think being very reckless. He was just like eating some chocolate. Great chocolate, avocado.

Reckless Tom. That I buy. Actively trying to kill a dog. I don't buy that at all. I don't think Tom would do that. But we'll see. How is his podcast going? He just said Schwartz on.

How many guests can he get two guys who i've been trying to get on mine but they both tell me they don't want to really talk about anything interesting what doesn't schwartz want to talk about well you know he doesn't like want to cover any of the stuff in the past it's just like well i don't want to like focus on that but well how do you cover what's in the future because we don't know what's gonna happen in the future we haven't had you on the show yet so we we have a lot to cover, Tom. We have a lot to cover about your relationship with Katie. And do you have any regrets? And how are you dating now? We have a lot to cover about your friendship with Tom. Where is it now? What's

different? What's changed? Has it a dynamic change? Do you treat him differently? How do you hold each other more accountable? What are your thoughts on the Raquel Rachel interview? Like, of course I'm going to ask about this shit. So I'm like, I'm not going to have them on if they want to talk about fucking baseball and drinking. I don't fucking,

you know, like fuck. So if whenever they grow a pair, they're listening, they're welcome on the show. I really, I really like Schwartz the time I like talking to him. He's obviously a very

affable guy and he's nice and he's super friendly and I get from Schwartz's standpoint it's just like I don't think Schwartz is just dying to do any interview you know and so I get it he just doesn't want to deal with shit Sandoval on the other hand like clearly loves attention

you know likes to be out there and it's like hey if you want to be out there you're going to have to talk about loves attention you know likes to be out there and it's like hey if you want to be out there you're gonna have to talk about some shit you know i really want to know if tom a knows the difference and b cares if there's a if he does understand the difference between famous and infamous you don't think tom does i would want to know if he knows the difference he might be from the no such thing as bad press school of thought. And yeah, maybe he just doesn't care. But maybe he does.

Yeah. I would be curious where that line is for him, you know? Because clearly he's going to be like, yeah, I know the difference. And of course I want people to like me. But I want to know what that line is because he does a lot of things where he has no problem leaning in you know oh yeah as long as he gets the clicks well

I'm grateful Lindsay leaned in so much on this interview she did it's a big baller one I'm excited for everyone to hear so fucking what's any late latest son Travis and Kels well I have this okay so Taylor is super specific with what she does on social media

she follows zero people zero yeah zero absolutely zero but she liked a people magazine instagram post when they announced that travis is like now the leading tight end which happened after the germany broke her record yeah and so she likes that Was it? I think it was a Kansas City record, to be honest. I could be wrong. I feel like Bronx I don't think it was an all-time NFL record.

But it was a big deal. But she did that after that game, which she hosted a viewing party for just the girlfriends and wives of the players. That is huge.

She's putting herself in that category. She's a... She's a wag. She's a... She's a wag. She's a... A wag. A wag. Yeah.

Wife of... Wife and girlfriend. Yeah. Yeah. Wife of girlfriend. She's part of the community of wives and girlfriends. Yeah.

Wow. And it's tight knit. And sorry, because I worked for the Cubs, like the baseball team. I worked in the center where like the players' children... I like basically babysat

the players' children during games. And so that was also where like wives and girlfriends would hang out and it can be like you know the Cubs wives were all like super nice and welcoming but you could definitely tell that there's like people who've been with the team longer there's like social dynamics that kind of replicate like the dynamics of how the players are like how important they are and it's like it be, I feel like tough to break into. And so I'm glad that she's taking it in stride. Well, they're still going strong.

I hope she goes to Lambeau Field when they play the Green Bay Packers. We won't be there. And let's tailor. If you go, let us know. Then we'll try to change our plan. We'll move things around. Yeah, we'll move things around.

Before we get to Lindsay, just want to say thank you everyone for listening for all the people who are tuning in to the show for the first time. Don't forget, we're on at least three times a week. We got our Ask Nick segments on Monday.

If you love our texting office hour for Lindsay, you'll love Ask Nick. A lot of relationship and dating stories that are fun, entertaining, and helpful. And then we have our Reality Recap every Tuesday, where we cover all things reality TV, pop culture, and then our Going Deepers, which are usually on Thursday, but special case here with Lindsay. Don't forget to send those questions at AskNickAtTheValFiles.com. For all things Ask Nick, texting office hours, you know the drill. All right, everybody, get ready to be activated. It's time for Lindsay Hubbard. All right. Well, it's holiday season. It's quickly approaching. And if you are looking to sell your amazing products to your customers, you gotta check out Shopify.

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We'll make them count. See guaranteed details at TurboTax.com slash guarantees. Experts only available with TurboTax Live. All right, Lindsay, should we do these shots? Yeah. By the way, we met before I was where was it at? It was at like a friend's Superbowl party. I told you I'm like February of like 2000. I'm like, there's a chance Lizzie's going to come in and say we've met because I think we met. And this was like, literally, I looked it up. It was February 2019 2019 so almost five years ago was it five

years ago yeah and you were like just talking about summer house and i remember like cool you're like i have no idea what you're talking about like this is new show we film like eight seasons later what do you know now i'm like begging you to come on. You're like, how about tomorrow? I'm like, okay. Like, I have nothing going on, but sure. All right, let's do this. Okay, but don't make fun of my face, because I am terrible at shots.

Okay, well, then don't make fun of mine, because I don't usually rip shots of tequila. It's two minutes into the afternoon, not the morning. So, yay for us. Anything after 12 is great. All right, well, here's to two months being single. Okay. On the dot. Both y'all

look the exact same. Yeah. Alright. Alright, you ready? This better be juicy. Chasing it with some coffee? Okay. You need a chaser too? Ugh.

You did not grow up in Florida. No. Are we all ready? Should we all just take a- A big deep breath. Just channel our redemptive kind of energy around the men. We want to spill tea. Around the men. Talk some shit spill tea. Around the mend.

Talk some shit. Heal. Peacefully choose violence. Yeah, peacefully choose violence. Yeah, I'm definitely in more of a peaceful mood these days. It's good. First month was definitely violence. Okay, what a great place to start.

Lindsay, welcome. Thanks. Thanks for having me. It's so good to have you here. Yeah, you know. I haven't asked a guest in a few weeks to kick off an episode, but how is your heart? My heart is full. Full?

And I feel really good about that. I'm in a really good place right now. And you just told us that today marks two months of being single. Yeah. Single Lindsay is back. And now we have a full heart. Yep. Let's just give a round of applause for a full heart after two months.

That must not have been easy. No, it wasn't. I would say in the beginning, it was like I was operating hour by hour. In the beginning, it was like I was operating hour by hour. And when I tell you the entire world found out within 30 minutes of me, it was chaotic and hectic. And all of a sudden, I had to go into hiding because I had to protect my privacy and I had to sort through my emotions and I had to get through the shock of it all. That first week, the first couple of days, it was like hour by hour.

And then slowly but surely, as the weeks went on, it was like day by day. Yeah. And then a couple of days at a time. Then I was able to plan something for two weeks from now, but still operating, you know, in the present of day by day. And slowly but surely, I just, I really, like, created this war room in my apartment, you know, as I was in hiding, because the whole world knew and I couldn't walk down the streets of New York without paparazzi who was stationed outside of my apartment and du moi, you know, fans taking pictures. And so all my girlfriends just would come over. If you were

in New York and you're one of my best girlfriends, you're at my apartment. I couldn't answer my phone. It was blowing up. I had certain best friends setting up conference calls with other best friends who weren't in New York. If one of you knew, like you would have to fill in the other one. So it was, it was very hectic. So Carl really did this on camera without giving you any heads up whatsoever. Yeah. That's bonkers. It was like the ultimate blindsiding of the year, for me at least.

There was no indication that he was having second thoughts or unhappy or having, you know. So despite Kyle, who recently mouthed off in the press and said how essentially he implied, strongly that i think he pretty much said that you two were fighting constantly kind of through couples therapy in your face yeah basically saying that you guys were in couples therapy we were in couples therapy but we were not in couples therapy since we started dating which is what k Well, I will just want to point out, just you may disagree, but I don't like that Kyle said it in a way where people who get couples therapy from a proactive standpoint is somehow a negative, you know, in a sense. Kyle's also in couples therapies. So I don't really like when he's, you know,

therapy shaming me for being in couples therapy. Yeah. Cause I didn't really understand. Okay, great. They've been in couples therapy since the beginning. I would argue that would, great, healthy couple being proactive. So to me, being in couples therapy isn't a sign of anything bad happening. So. Certainly it wasn't to you. It didn't seem like.

No. Carl and I started couples therapy about a year into dating. Okay. Right. And. So not immediately. No. Okay. Right. And so not immediately. No, no, exactly. If you want to speak to my experience and my relationship, at least get the facts straight. So period. Yeah. Period. Dot. Um, so yeah, so Carl and I started dating right after season six,

September, 2021, September, October, we started couples therapy in November of 2022. He was going through a really hard time with his job at Loverboy. He was very unhappy. Our communication was off. That honeymoon phase wore off. And, you know, I think in the beginning of Carl and I's relationship, it was like exciting. Like, oh my God, I just fell in love with my best friend. I've known him for forever. He's known me for forever. And we tried once before it didn't work out. And now it seems to be working. And we, you have to add a lot of people in your ears, whether it's, you know, your castmates that you share a house with or, you know, whoever. So did you and Carl ever have conversations as a couple getting married, having big plans for the future?

Like what conversations did you two have either outside or inside couples therapy about like, how do we separate like TV us versus real us? Or did you have conversations like that? Because to your point, like I couldn't imagine trying to maintain a healthy relationship and then filming a show that's, you know, just it's around creating drama. Like every moment you have is like,

is this the end of the world or is it not? But we should act like it is and argue about it. I'm the same on and off camera. Okay. Like I, should act like it is and argue about it you know so how did you same on and off camera okay like i i do not change for the cameras i think what works to my benefit is i just always step in shit every season and then you know i like wind up creating drama on accident so nothing was really just off limits between you two and the tv show. No, nothing's ever off limits. We started the show together eight seasons ago and, you know, I, we are both very aware.

I do think, you know, I have more experience being in relationships on camera than, than Carl does. You know, he, you never really saw him in a relationship in his adult life. I was kind of that first adult relationship for him. I think he had, he spoke on season one about how he dated some girl, you know, at some point in his early twenties, but does that really count? Not really. I mean, you change a lot in 10, 12, 15 years. So that concern you in general? I mean, you change a lot in 10, 12, 15 years. Did that concern you in general?

Yeah. I mean, it concerned me, but I also was very patient and understanding knowing that, all right, he doesn't have a lot of experience in relationships. I have more in the sense that I've been in and out of relationships in my adult life with terrible men, but, you know, still have the experience. I learned a lot how to compromise and how to, you know, sort of think about somebody else and their needs in a relationship capacity. I'm very much like an open book, especially on the show. I'm the same on and off camera. Nothing's exactly off limits. We never spoke about what would be on or off limits, but you also want to have respect for your partner, especially your partner who you're

supposed to spend the rest of your life with. And you sort of like know in the back of your mind, okay, like there are certain things that you're not going to overshare, you know, like the details of your intimacy or anything that might happen at home. That's a little bit like, you know, walking the line of this might, you know, be a little bit off limits. Like this is just a hypothetical, but it's like if Carl was having like, say, performance issues, maybe you wouldn't bring that up. Correct. Hypothetically. Hypothetically. But you guys generally had a pretty hey, we're an authentic

couple. I did. Now, I don't know. I think Carl might have, for instance, like last season when everyone's like you guys are a little too happy or a little fake. It's a little like too much. Like it was a new relationship.

What are you supposed to be? It was a new relationship. Carl is a very affectionate and loving guy. He's like a big teddy bear who loves to hug and kiss and hold hands. I don't think a lot of people saw that side of him, especially in the house because we've never seen him in a relationship. And then boom, all of a sudden he's with me and he's like hugging me and loving me and kissing me and all over me.

So I think that was a little bit of, you know, a startling experience for everyone else in the house. But he also likes to put his best foot forward. He's a people pleaser. I just, I don't need the love and admiration from everyone around me. I feel like I'm one of those people where I'm, not i'm not your person, you know to half of the fan base because you just can't stand me and i'm polarizing Because i'm direct and straightforward and a straight shooter with my communication and then there's like the other half that they see me for who I am, which is just very open and honest and, you know, wear my heart on my sleeve and, you know, you get what you get. You're kind of a take it or leave it-er.

Yeah. Take it or leave it-er. Take it or leave it-er. And did Carl- In this case, the leave it-er. So with the new relationship and people kind of responding to house, right? You know, you were just like, hey, you know, honeymoon relationship. People might treat us differently, but people started treating you too differently, including Carl. And do you think that affected him? Yeah, I do. I think, you know, he he never was in a position last season where all of a sudden it's like someone's going up against your girl and you got to protect your girl.

I don't think he understood or had the experience of how to do that. Right. Classic Tom Schwartz. He would. Sounds like. I think he would almost like go numb and and and and get paralyzed. You know, if Kyle's running around the house and screaming at me for 20 minutes straight saying awful shit. Or if Craig Conover's, you know, visiting and he's saying some crazy shit, you know, or if or if the girls are, you know, coming after me,

I don't think Carl had the tools to know how to, OK, this is my job as Lindsay's boyfriend to protect her and stand up for her. Like, I know her. I know her heart. I am with her every day. I wouldn't have fallen in love with her otherwise. And I think that took, you know, it took a lot of watching back for him to be like, okay, I think this is how I'm supposed to act. You know, but yes, last season, we were still in our honeymoon phase.

And then we leave the summer and we go back to regular life and, you know, he's conflicted about his job at Loverboy and he's trying to figure out what to do and whether to negotiate with Kyle or quit or is this, you know, working on an alcohol brand for somebody who's sober? Is that the appropriate fit anymore? Has he outgrown and does he want different things? So, you know, I think he was really stressed out about that, which is around the time that we started going to couples therapy. I think our communication was kind of all over the place. And we also were out of that honeymoon phase by then. It's interesting that you mentioned this, that kind of that boyfriend protector responsibility. And, you know, we, we, we discussed it a lot through Scandival and Katie and Tom Schwartz, but have you, you know, and this is kind of a household for the question for the household of ladies and question for you, Lindsay, you've dated other people too, but do you think that for some men that comes more

instinctually, like, Hey, I have a girlfriend girlfriend now because i think a lot like carl the way you described him and like schwartz was like i think a lot of guys grow up having this mentality of like i always have your boys back you know the whole you know bros before hoes kind of you know bullshit but it seems like a lot of young men are maybe not so young, depending on who they are. Do they not learn that lesson? Or is it like a rite of passage? Like with some of the young men that you guys dated, if you guys can go back when you're first boyfriends, but like, did you guys always have to have a conversation about like, hey,

it's not always bros before hoes. Kind of to your point, like now in my life, it's just like my instinct will be the default is Natalie's right. You know, but you know, but that's the instinct. sometimes that takes a lot of time for a man to realize. I might, I might like, you know, be like, babe, you know, but like the instinct, if there is something going on, the instinct is like with somebody else. Yeah. The instinct isn't to figure out what's going on. All right.

You know, did she offend someone? Did she? No. The instinct is my partner is I have her back. There might be a conversation behind closed doors. What are you doing? But, you know, but like the instinct is always to have my partner's back. Correct.

And I think that comes from confidence and security within yourself and knowing who you are so that you can defend your partner because you know what happens is if you are not if you don't really know who you are and you're not very secure with yourself and you're not very confident and and and you as a as a as a man or as a human you might be a little bit more hesitant or afraid to defend your partner because you're more worried about what people are going to think of you than you are about actually protecting your partner and car Carl struggled with that. Well, you know, but I also am a fierce like fighter myself. Like I can defend myself. I grew up with a brother.

Sure. I grew up with, you know, catty, jealous girls in Florida. So, you know, I'm like, I'm pretty good at, you know, just off the cuff defending myself. Obviously, we want to hear all the tea, but like before, but what did work? You know, it came to you and Carl, you know, before you broke up and obviously you were blindsided. What were things about the relationship that made you, you personally, Lindsay, feel like this is my man. This is why I want to be in this relationship. You know, what were the reasons that gave you all the hope that you had and the reasons why

you said yes and the reasons why you're planning a wedding? What was it about the relationship that obviously was for you sad to let go of? With Carl, the things that worked and why we got into a relationship to begin with, I mean, this was my best friend, you know, like we started this show together. It's an experience that not many people in this world can understand. And, you know, we spent years and years developing this friendship that eventually turned into a best friendship. And we, you know, spent so much time together on camera, off camera, a lot of time off camera where, you know, we would talk to each other about everything under the moon. And he would come over to my apartment multiple times a week. And, you

know, we just we really developed a bond that I don't think a lot of people could necessarily see, considering, you know, it was during the off season of filming. So fall, winter, spring, we've both gone through a lot of trauma while, you know, being friends. And I think we were extremely trauma bonded. You know, his his brother unfortunately passed away and I was right there for him. I went through an accidental pregnancy and miscarriage. I, you know, have have my own family traumas that I've been working on in therapy for years. He has his own family traumas. So I think I think we were just really bonded on so many different levels. And we had a lot of similarities, like similar sense of humor and, you know, lifestyle ones. And, and, and, you know,

we both enjoy activities and I'm, I'm like a sports girl, uh, you know, and I love to play sports. And so, so there was like so many things. And when you have a best friend that you're extremely bonded with on so many different levels, and then you fall in love, you're like, with on so many different levels and then you fall in love, you're like, oh my God, like this is crazy. I can't believe this happened. I went from like the ultimate fairy tale doesn't exist. And I threw myself this twisted fairy tale birthday party, you know, on season six to falling in love with my best friend.

And I was like, maybe the ultimate fairy tale does exist. And I don't know. I think I think it just worked like we just really understood each other from so many years of getting to know each other. And when he got sober, I was his number one support. And and even getting to his one year of sobriety, it was like, you know, he was he was really struggling for the last couple of months. And I was like, OK, I'm going to I'm going to do this with you. Like I'm going to commit to going sober with you through the holidays. We're going to do this together, you know, hand in hand, side by side. And I am going to walk you to that

milestone so that you feel comfortable and that you can do this and you have a partner and a teammate. And at that point, we had just started dating. So and then I, you know, I wound up going five months without drinking, which was great. I think I felt good. I looked good. I was in the best shape of my life. My skin was better than ever. Um, and I really, I really enjoyed that partnership and doing something as a team. And, you know, it really just it worked in the beginning and in that that full, you know, first year.

And then everything and then everything started shifting. Were you guys in couples therapy when he broke up with you? We were supposed to go to couples therapy that day that he canceled. So leading up to the breakup, you guys were in couples therapy and you still had no idea. Yeah. No, he didn't give me any indication. He didn't say anything that would have alluded to, you know, I'm having cold feet or I'm having second thoughts or I'm not ready or I think we need more time. Like nothing. He said nothing to me over summer. He said nothing that would have given any clues. I mean, two weeks before he ended things, I was at my bridal shower that he stopped by two weeks.

No joke. And it was also, you know, simultaneous to my birthday. And he's doting all over Instagram like, oh, my beautiful fiance, I can't wait to marry you in 100 days. Oh, my God. Happy birthday to the love of my life, my rock, my partner, everything. That was two weeks before the breakup. Then one week, I'm at my first dress fitting. He's at a suit fitting with his boys. One week, one week. And I'm like, OK. And then, you know, we're talking about inviting, you know, the rest of the cast to the wedding, like the new guy. He was talking to the new guy about, you know, inviting him to the wedding. I'm talking about this and then three days later boom no indication complete blindside and whiplash I think back to these last conversations of

that like last Sunday in the house over summer and I'm just like okay was he trying to say something but why on earth would I ever think that this is what he's trying to say something? But why on earth would I ever think that this is what he's trying to say? Well, also you were in couples therapy. So you would kind of think that if there... There were concerns. There's a space designated for bringing this up and working through them.

To your knowledge, who knew before you did? Kyle? Maybe there might've been a conversation with his mom. I don't think Kyle knew. I think Kyle was blindsided too. Kyle? Maybe. There might have been a conversation with his mom. I don't think Kyle knew. I think Kyle was blindsided too. Really? Yeah. I really think it was an impulsive, emotional decision out of anger. What do you mean by out of anger? Did you guys get in a fight prior to that? The last two weeks of summer, his demeanor had kind of changed. His attitude changed. The way he was speaking to me, his combativeness, the things he was saying to me were just like, what is going on right now?

Like, this is so confusing. I don't know where this came from. All of a sudden, I had to change everything about me to be with him. Can you give me an example? Okay. It became one of those things where we're having conversations about like where he wants to go with his career, what he wants to do. Of course, we're having these conversations. We're about to walk down the aisle.

This is my partner. We need to financially plan. Like, what are we doing here? We have a very expensive wedding to plan. We, you know, are hopefully going to start a family. Families, children cost a lot of money. All of my friends at this point have young kids at home, one, maybe two, sometimes three. And it's very, very expensive. Money just disappears. That's all I keep hearing from all of my friends. And I come from like a very stable financially like stable dad who the only thing he grilled into my head was like you know make sure you plan make sure you're saving your money make sure this it's a very

important conversation for a couple to have the budget you know the broom yeah normal normal conversation so i'm over here just like okay so like what's the plan with your career and like what do you want to do in life and you know where, where do you want to work? And like, here's what I'm doing. And we need to make sure like we are talking about these conversations. And it all of a sudden became like, well, you need to be softer, Lindsay. And I'm like, what? softer Lindsay and I'm like what and it was like you need to be softer and nurturing and caring and loving and positive and excited and happy and give me hugs and tell me you're proud of me and I was like okay well but you're not you're not really telling me something that I should be excited about yet we're not there yet like I'm just asking you questions about your career you came and said hey babe just kind of a check-in kind of like hey just tough but necessary conversation we need not even that tough i'm not even giving an opinion i'm not you're just

asking questions i'm just asking simple questions and he was like shut the fuck up i just want you to be happy we're getting married probably and i'm just like okay and then slowly but surely it turned into oh well i don't want the role of my wife to be somebody who asks questions and gives advice and has opinions. And I'm just like, ooh, first of all, like, we're all very clear, like, who I am, right? Gabby Wendy, wrong fucking answer. Yes. He didn't want you to have an opinion? Yeah.

So that was verbatim. Yeah. And it was just this like these conversations were happening and i am like what is going on first of all you proposed to a girl a year ago who you've been best friends with for at that time seven years at what point have i ever given anyone who's watched the show for five minutes any indication that i'm some cheerleader like well guess what i am a great cheerleader but i'm also shut up and and you're not like a sign i'm not a 1950s stepford wife what the fuck i am a very

independent girl who's made my own money since i was 14 years old and has supported myself and has the most ambition and drive to, you know, start a PR firm to, you know, maintain a PR firm, hustle around New York City and like make money. And you're now telling me I'm not allowed to speak and I have to just listen, which, by the way, I gave him that option. I was like, maybe you just want me to listen in this situation and not give advice or ask any questions. No, I want to talk it out with you. OK, so like I just was almost like backed into this weird corner of like, what is happening? I'm so confused right now. Like a month ago, you were totally fine with me giving my opinion and advice. A year ago, when you were quitting a month ago, you were totally fine with me giving my opinion and advice.

A year ago when you were quitting Loverboy, you were totally fine with me being your sounding board. What happened in these last two weeks where your idea and role of a wife for you is to just tell you like you're doing great and, you you're I'm so excited for you and I don't really care what happens, but I'm here for you. And, you know, no, like we're planning for our future. Like I have to ask questions if they're, I ask questions to everyone. I'm a very curious person. I have a very active cerebral mind and this is me active listening to you. And it's also my way of showing my love and support because I am involved and I want your

happiness. And if you're happy, I'm happy and we're happy. And how can I help you? And how can I help? And I'm like, the way I am in a relationship is I roll my sleeves up and I give it my all. Like there is nothing half ass about me. And that's with work. That's when I was a publicist.

That's me as a reality star. Whatever it is, I give it over 100%. And that very much includes a relationship. I love with my full heart. I throw every resource at you if you need it. If you tell me you want to go into finance, guess what? I got the resources for you. If you tell me you want to go into finance, like, guess what? I got the resources for you. If you tell me you want to be a motivational speaker, I got the resources. If you want to start a podcast, I got a podcast producer. Anything that you want to do, I will throw anything and everything that's in my repertoire and my relationships that I've nurtured for years, like at you and towards you. I will love you with my full heart. I will, you know, support you with everything that I have. I will give you

the patience and understanding. You know, one thing I did learn in couples therapy was, you know, how to work on delivery and tone. A lot of miscommunication that happens in relationships starts with the delivery and the tone. And I'm over here working on that, but it takes two. And I think when it comes to a partnership, it's something that I've always craved and wanted and understood what it takes to get there. And it takes two people. And I just am not certain that he had the tools to understand fully what a partnership is. It sounds almost that you still haven't gotten any true clarity about his decision, and you're almost doing your best to figure it out.

Is that accurate? I figured it out. But yes, no, I got no answers from him. What did you figure out? Probably more answers I got from myself and my friends. Like I said, when I when I set up those war rooms in my apartment and just like, you know how women are like we're detectives. You know, I have a lot of emotionally intelligent and emotionally mature women around me who are entrepreneurial and their powerhouses. And, you know, I just I sat around and I just put

everything on the table. And I was like, we're putting everything on the table and we are breaking this down and we're finding these answers because the only way I can move to the next step of moving on and moving forward is if I have some sort of answers and closure. And I wasn't going to stop those first couple of weeks until I had them. So, I mean, we just psychologically dissected everything, really broke down every inch and being of this person. And I saw probably a lot of things that I was maybe overlooking because I was just so in love with him. And a lot of inexperience of things that you have to go through emotionally as an adult that I don't think were there. And I and just, yeah, there was a lot. I don't think he cheated. I don't think that's something that happened i don't you know i i don't i don't think there was any big moment i just think

that he doesn't fully understand commitment and what it takes to be in a relationship i'm always surprised to hear that you thought Kyle was surprised. Because I kind of just, just following the story from afar and watching this past season, I would have just, it would have made sense if you would have came in here and told me that, like, him and Carl were talking a lot recently, maybe about his career at Loverboy, and Kyle planted a couple seeds of doubt. But you don't think there's any of that going on? I mean,

there could have been, there could have absolutely been points in time over summer where, you know, Kyle could have been in Carl's ear, but, um, I didn't say some nice things about you at the reunion last, last reunion.

Kyle didn't? Well, I mean, Kyle's had it out for me for years he always assumes the worst in me and he always thinks I'm some master manipulator you know calculated person I'm like no I'm just smarter and quicker I think I think off I think on my feet but yeah but seeing how Kyle sees you it's just just, it wouldn't show. There could have been.

They're best friends. But I also think, you know, in his communication, like might tell you one thing and then tell somebody something completely different. So who knows what those, I guess we'll find out

when the season airs, right? But I definitely think someone was in Carl's ear. I just don't know who it was. What's a quality that you feel like when you were best friends and falling in love with Carl, you felt like he had? And then in hindsight, you look back, especially after like analyzing things with the people you're closest to and say, he actually didn't have this quality. Communication. I thought in the beginning, I was like, oh, my God, like he's communicating like, OK, babe, I'm you know, I'm going to this meeting and then I have this call and then I have a, you know, dinner or whatever.

And then I'll be home. And what are you doing? communication, the tough conversations, the adult conversations, the, you know, like the hard conversations, um, I think he really struggles with. Especially I'm guessing if the light is shined on him, so to speak. Well, if, you know, like, is that if the topic is him and his spending or his career, his goals, his focus. Well, I think for somebody who, you know, has low self-esteem and then you are bringing up normal conversations that a partnership requires, they don't, they don't take that too easily. Yeah. I would imagine if Carl were here, if we were talking with Carl and we were to say, you know...

Do I need another shot? We might need another shot. But what do you think Carl would say if we were to ask him, you know, why wasn't this relationship enough for you? I think Carl thinks that everything is just like butterflies and rainbows and, you know, puppies. I don't think he fully understands that, like, relationship.

There's a reason why everybody in the world says relationships take work. Marriage takes work. He would maybe say that he didn't want to go to he, you know, didn't want to go to couples therapy for the rest of his life. But half the reason we were in couples therapy was because of him what does he plan on working out the rest of his life like in a gym what do you mean well i mean people talk about like yeah i mean we nally and i treat couples therapy is like something we do to maintain our relationship right to stay in shape emotionally right well especially by the way before you get married too, FYI, like so many of my friends,

especially before they're getting married are in couples therapy. Yeah. And so like, I don't know if Nellie and I are going to like do it for the rest of our lives, but like we plan on taking our care of ourselves. I mean, it's for the foreseeable future. Right.

And I equate going to the gym. Well, especially when you work together, you live together. And working out is just as important as like our mental health, our relationship. And so I don't see therapy as some sort of burden, just like I don't see, you know, there's some days I don't want to work out for sure. But to suggest that I don't want to work out for the rest of my life, you know i i think it's couple therapy is especially important for those who struggle with communicating with their partner without the help of a third party or you know somebody to to guide them and i think the struggle came because it you know it almost seemed like any conversation that i would try to have like it just it was it was hard without you know the therapist being like okay now like this is what lindsey's saying and this is it was just it was i don't know what his i don't know what he would say

honestly i i can't speak for the guy guy. That is a hard brain to unravel. Not too long ago, I had a conversation with a friend that got out of a relationship. I was surprised to hear that they were broken up with and they were sad about it. I wasn't the biggest fan of their partner. And so afterwards, I kind of said to them, like, do you see it now, at least?

To which they replied, yes. You know, they kind of, after taking a step back if the relationship ended as sad as they were they were glad that maybe they weren't in that relationship any longer now that your heart is full two months later like where are you in the grieving process are you thankful you're no longer with carl or is it still sad i mean shit you were supposed to get married this month that must obviously be difficult but do you see it now, so to speak, in terms of whether you should be with Carl a bigger plan for me. And I see that plan. After everything happened, it took two weeks of full-blown feeling all of the emotions, three weeks feeling all the emotions, slowly getting better, but still like having breakdowns. And, and it, it really was this moment of like, wow,

like this, this was going to be a long, rough road for me ahead. Especially if I'm the one driving all the tough conversations, managing everything, driving the ship in all the directions, the tough conversations, managing everything, driving the ship in all the directions, trying to, you know, really push on the adult, you know, future planning. And, you know, that's, that sucks. Like, I need help. I need a partner. I want an equal. And the fact that I wasn't getting that was, was became very evident. And, um, and that's, that's what I want. And so, yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm in a really good place right now. I think grieving, um, you know, going through those motions of grief and pain and, and heartbreak is, is a very different experience for everybody. And everyone has a different timeline that they are on with it. I think I've been through some pretty gnarly breakups in my life, some of which have been on camera.

And this one was the most heartbreaking breakup of my entire life. Sorry you had to go through that. That's okay. But, you know, I realized that the way it went down, that amount of betrayal for me was so strong. Trust and loyalty are my absolute number ones. And if you betray my trust in such a way that Carl did, I equate that to him basically cheating on me. So it made it easier for me to move through those emotions of grief and pain and heartbreak and put one foot in front of the other and slowly but surely say, you know what?

I know how I treat people. I know that I love with my full heart. I know how big my heart is. I know what I am capable of. And I want that in return. And once you start realizing again what your worth is, it makes it easier. And the trust part, just to reiterate with the audience, it was kind of everything leading up to the breakup

where he clearly wasn't open with you and transparent with you. Is it more everything about leading up to the breakup or how much of that betrayal of trust has to do with him going to production, obviously, and set up the whole breakup scene? It's that. It's more of that betrayal of trust has to do with him going to production, obviously, and set up the whole breakup scene? It's that. It's more that.

It's that. Okay. A lot of it was how could somebody who I trust more than anyone on this earth betray me in such a way that doesn't even feel like he loves me. Like you don't do that to somebody you love. You don't do that to somebody you respect. And you don't do that to your best friend of eight years, your partner and your fiance. You don't go to production and tell them what you're thinking and then set up the cameras and do it in such a humiliating way so publicly humiliating and then think i'm ever gonna trust you ever again well it's interesting in the last reunion the topic of you letting amanda know on camera about kyle's infidelity and then you guys

kind of all hash that out and then you and carl were like yeah our bad we shouldn't have done that that way was it even more surprising to you then that even like so that that happened that conversation with kyle and um you know about his infidelity season. I think that was like season three. That was like we're in, we're during normal filming months. Like I didn't go pick the cameras back up and then go to your house and have this conversation

when you think you're wrapped for the season. No, I know. But I'm saying even then, it's even then. But I'm also, I'm not your partner. But I'm saying even then, it's even then. But I'm also, I'm not your partner. But I'm saying you guys even made the point where you and Carl acknowledged, hey, we shouldn't have done that type of thing. Like, I'm agreeing with you in the sense that, but why didn't Carl even register? Like, he apologized for something like this. This is 10 times worse and it didn't even register with him.

Yeah, Nick, that's the problem. The things that are not registering. Can you walk us through that day? I mean, I know obviously he canceled the couples therapy. And then did he just be like, hey, meet in the living room. Productions coming over. Okay. So let me back up a second. We wrapped filming that Sunday at the house, and he was kind of coming at me in a way that felt really icky and gross. And my season's done. And then we wrapped, and we were done. We then went to Surf Lodge with all of our cast and had a great time and i was like still like

feeling really icky about the things that carl had said to me earlier in the day um and we so whatever let's go to surf lodge let's just like put a buffer like that way i'm not driving home with him and like you know getting into some sort of fight on the way home just the two of us based off of what he had said earlier that day. And and so we go to surf lodge. We're on our way home and I'm like talking about next weekend's Labor Day. Like, I don't really want to go to Montauk. I think it's good for us to like reconnect and go somewhere just the two of us. We haven't been on a date this summer.

It's good for us to like reconnect and go somewhere just the two of us. We haven't been on a date this summer. And we have a whole conversation which, you know, starts escalating weirdly because he's starting to throw out like all of these like insults at me. And I'm just like, what is happening right now? And he's just saying some mean shit that I'm not going to get into. So we get into an argument in the car and I just stayed silent until we got home and whatever. And so by Monday, he's golfing all day, not home. And by the time he gets home, I'm at dinner with a girlfriend. I get home, he's sleeping already on the couch. I was like, okay. By Tuesday, we're in and out of the apartment, you know, on different schedules. I then, you know,

went to go get a manicure, which I get every two weeks. And they take like two hours. And then I decided to go to Barbie with Gabby because we hadn't seen it all summer. We had no time all summer to go see Barbie. And now time all summer to go see Barbie. And now we're going to go see Barbie. And I come out of the movies and I get this text on Tuesday night saying that they're going to film tomorrow. And I'm just like, my radars are going off. My red flags are, are waving. Who's the text from Carl or production? Production. And he's on it though. or production production and he's on it though he's on the it's a group text and it is like hey we're filming tomorrow like we you know blah blah blah and i'm just like something's up this is not right and then he's he's responding immediately he's moving couples therapy he's clearing the schedule he's like oh no problem he is like you know absolutely and i am just like

this is weird wait wait so he made it seem like so he gets the group text from production yeah and he's like oh let me see if i can move couples therapy knowing for all hand that he knew he had to move couples therapy and i had not even spoken to him since we got home on sunday and now it's on tuesday like why would you agree to even film with your fiance that you haven't even spoken to him since we got home on Sunday and now it's on Tuesday. Like, why would you agree to even film with your fiance that you haven't even spoken to in the last two days? Like that to me is like, what? This is weird. That's hardcore. So I come home and he is in our guest bedroom, lights off, door shut in hiding already. Cause he knows if he sees me, i'm going to start asking a lot of questions because you know i asked too many questions and um so be quiet i wake up and i'm just like i set my alarm

early i wake i wake up early and i go into his room at 8 a.m and i'm like he's not there do you know what they want to film with us about today and he pops off on me pops off and it is just like the things he was saying were just I don't even I this is part of like

what I think about in my mind it was just crazy shit what was just like a one sound bite I mean I mean, just like, if you don't change, I'm this close to calling off the wedding. If you don't change, I am this close to calling off the wedding. And I'm like,

I'm like, I had just woken up, rolled out of bed, opened my eyes, didn't even have my coffee. And I love coffee. And I'm trying to figure out why we're filming today.

Because this is not making sense. We wrapped on Sunday. It's now Wednesday morning. my coffee and I love coffee and I'm trying to figure out why we're filming today because this is not making sense we wrapped on Sunday it's now Wednesday morning I got a text on a group with them he's eager to change this get our you know our personal you know couples therapy around so that they could make room for filming eyes change couples therapy but wants you to change I'm like what is happening or else and yeah but I have to change or else. And it just, that's part of the ick factor that I was feeling that morning. So he left the apartment and I called my dad. I was like, something's up.

I called Gabby. I called my best friend Yvonne. And I just was like, I don't understand what's going on. Like we're having, you know, these conflicts in our communication surrounding his career. Like, but why are we filming? Like, this is weird. And then next thing you know, they showed up that afternoon and I sat on the couch and, um. When did you know?

Um, I mean, when it, when it happened. When did you know? I mean, when it happened. When the words came out. When the words came out. And when the words came out, I don't think I reacted the way he wanted me to react. And so as soon as he said, you don't take me seriously. And by the way, I'm saying that calmly. He was not as calm as he said, you don't take me seriously. And by the way, I'm saying that calmly. He was not as calm when he said that.

I looked at him and I realized, oh, he wants me to beg and plead and say, no, no, no, please don't do this. I'll change. I'll change. I'll do whatever you need. Don't don't call off the wedding. Don't do this. That's what he wanted from me. But that felt like he was using the cameras to threaten me. It almost sounds like he had this pent up kind of, you know, I don't know, insecurity or, you know, feeling about himself, inadequacy, whatever you want to call it. It's almost like he brought that up. Yeah. And it's almost as if

he thought that you didn't think he was capable of setting up this. It's almost like you were there and set up the breakup. This whole like I wasn't going to. No, no, him. No, him set up the breakup this whole like i wasn't going to no no him no him setting up the breakup you know just going to production doing this whole thing like i didn't think he had it in him sort of yeah like almost as if like you didn't think why would i think anyone would ever do that i don't know two weeks beforehand we're at my bridal shower you're doing all over instagram but it's why would i think two weeks later you're wanting to break up with me and call off a wedding like that would never cross any woman's mind that that's what's happening. Exactly.

Especially if nothing really happened. I didn't do anything. It's not like I cheated on him. I'm not doing anything crazy. I'm just trying to ask questions about your career. Yeah. Because the way you're describing it, it's like trying to ask questions about your career. Yeah. Because the way you're describing it, it's like, you don't take me seriously. It was almost like, see, I don't,

I don't know. I wasn't there, but yeah, it's, it's kind of crazy that he did all because like the whole setup seems posturous. Yeah. To like, to know you're going to call off a wedding and to hide yourself in a room and call other people and then almost kind of breadcrumb you it's like he was doing pickups about your breakup before the breakup happened in a way i think he was hyping himself up that morning which is why he popped off on me i think he was he put a narrative in his mind that he that he needed to call this wedding off and he was not going to let me make any sense in a conversation with him. So in order to shut me up,

he had to just pop off on me. So he breaks up with you, he ends the engagement, and then production packs up? No, I talked to my dad for 30 minutes in my room. I was like, well, he did it. Because like I said, my red flags and radars were going off. Like I just a woman's intuition is unlike no other.

And, you know, our gut instinct is usually pretty spot on. So that's why we should always follow our gut. But yeah, I talked to my dad in my room, like on the bed. And my dad was like, do you want me to call him? And I was like, yeah, yes, call him. Maybe you can understand what just happened. My dad called him immediately, like immediately, you know, because that's what a dad does. That's what a parent does or should do. And I then after my conversation with my dad, I left and I texted my girlfriend who lives like a few blocks down from me. And I was like, are you home? Like, I need to get inside. I need to be inside. Like, and I'm like, I have my girlfriends texting me about the bachelorette

party that we're going on in three weeks. And I'm like, I can't talk right now. Like, this just happened. And they're like, what? I have, like, all my girlfriends just started meeting me at my friend's house because it was just like, what just happened? Yeah, it was. What did Carl say to your dad? Yeah, it was. What did Carl say to your dad? I think it was mostly my dad trying to tell Carl that everything in life requires communication and planning. And this is what adults do. And, you know, like, I don't know what happened, but it seems like you're adverse to communication around like adult hard topics that need to be had um and just so you know like everyone in life has to have have those conversations and this is just the beginning yeah like we're not even married we don't have kids like so did y'all have a conversation after

like we're all ever in this house again where you were like, what the fuck was that? Yeah, was there any off-camera breakup time? No. I did not respond to any of his texts for the first two weeks. I just was like disgusted. It's a power move. And appalled.

And I just, anything he was texting was simply to try to clear his public image. And it was less about like, are you okay? Are you eating? Like I didn't eat for a month, like at all. I couldn't keep anything in my body. I was crying in ways that I didn't know I had in me because I don't typically cry. I was throwing up and whatever, you get the rest. And like, I just, I would, I was sad. I was angry. I, I would just was going through all of these emotions that in any other breakup, I'm like, whatever, fuck that guy. He's a loser, you know? And I, it just, it was rough. So I wouldn't answer him because you're not even like concerned with the

wellbeing of me as a person with my heart that you just broke with the fact that you blew up my entire life and future, burned my fucking house down. And you don't even care to ask if I'm okay. He never called. He never tried to get in front of me. I mean, he would have had like a window. There would have been like probably a two day window that he could have gotten in front of me and said, I am so sorry. Like I really handled all of this so wrong. And I realized that I humiliated you, but no, I finally sat down with him right before I went to the Bahamas with my girlfriends on my bachelorette trip. And he just was not capable of taking accountability. He was still trying to convince me that he didn't set the whole thing up. And I'm like, I can't sit here for this. You're wasting my time at this point. That was a conversation. I'm trying to convince

you. Yeah. How would it have, what was the alternative plan? Like what was the alternative? Like how else could it have been been it seems like from some kind of quote within like kyle or him was sort of implying that he knew it might be a difficult conversation but wasn't going to all the way follow through with calling off the wedding what i'm sorry you don't call up production yeah and say i'm thinking about possibly breaking up with my fiance and calling off my wedding but just in case that i do, can you drop everything? They're making a TV show. These people are, there's certain rules and hours. Also, I'm sorry, but if you don't mean to call off a wedding, you don't fucking call off the wedding. If you meant to postpone the wedding, you postpone it, but you don't call

it off. There's a big difference between postponing and calling off. There's also a big difference between, hey, I'm feeling like maybe I have cold feet or having second thoughts or I'm not ready versus calling off the wedding. If you don't mean to call off a wedding, you don't fucking do it. You speak very clearly, articulately, slowly, and you make sure there is no room for misinterpretation, misunderstanding, or speculation. If you're making the biggest decision of your entire life, not only does it affect me and you, but it affects our entire family, our friends, everyone who's already booked for our wedding. It affects our rent and our apartment situation. It affects who knows what's happening, you know, with with the jobs on summer house. But like it affects so many people. And when you're making the biggest

decision of your entire life that affects that many people, I'm sorry, but you think that through and you speak clearly and slowly and deliberately so that there is no room for misunderstanding. That's how that works. Period. Period. Dot. Period. Just got hot in here.

Yeah, no. I mean, it is wild that he tried to sell you on the idea that he was going to think about it. Well, it's wild that he didn't to think about it or. Well, it's wild that like, he didn't understand that calling off a wedding meant breaking up. Like he thought. he thought,

do you think he was trying to still stay together? I think he, I think he, yeah, I think he was still. He wanted to still date you, but he just was like, I don't want to marry you.

What are you? What? Okay. Even if, even if that was his plan because i guess people have done that before i mean i'm spilling water now you don't do that by let me doing what you did on the show if nick were to come to you and be like hey i want to call the wedding but i want to stay together no we're done yeah sorry no sorry if you don't want to marry me what are we doing we're just wasting our time yeah. No. Sorry. If you don't want to marry me, what are we doing? We're just wasting our time. Yeah.

And guess what? At this point, you've already wasted two critical years of my life that I'm not about to waste anymore. But even if there were a chance, him doing it the way he did. No, there's no, it's like,

I want to call off our wedding on TV, embarrass you, but we can still stay together. No, that's the same. Did he move out of the apartment too? Or was that something, was that something he wanted?

Is that something you told him to do? I didn't really tell him to do anything. It was mostly like the first couple of weeks I had, you know, certain people as go-betweens trying to understand. Well, first of all, he ran away immediately. I don't know where he went. I don't know what he did. But he left New York pretty much the next day after that happened. I had to go film a scene with the girls, but he refused to film anything else after that.

Was the scene. Because that's cool. Yeah. And then. What am I missing? It's just really. After the breakup breakup like conversation on camera i still had to go film yeah another yeah with the girls like i'm done and he just refused to film anything else after that and like ran away and left town like completely just

disappeared exiled himself so if he needed to come to the apartment like like I was like, I'm not answering him. Gabby, you answer him. And so Gabby was answering him on my behalf. And then I finally sat down with him that third week before I went to the Bahamas. And I could not handle that conversation because it was just another waste of my time. And now we're I don't know where he's at. I don't know where he stays. I we're at a point now where he'll just text me if he needs to come to the apartment and get stuff. And, you know, ask me when I will be gone from the apartment so we don't see each other. And I just answer very, like, just Wednesday. Matter of fact.

Yeah. Matter of fact. Like, I'm gone gone today all day. I'll be home later tonight. End of story. I never tell him where I'm at or what time's really like. I just. I don't know.

I mean, I think. Yeah, I saw what what Kyle said in the press, like poor guys, basically homeless. But here's the thing. If you want a home, don't burn your fucking house down. Like, but you burned your house down. And I was not at a point in time, like the first month, I'm sorting through all my emotions. I'm trying to understand everything, like where my head's at, you know, like put one foot in front of the other, start learning, you know, and refocusing my energies on, on just bringing

myself joy and happiness. Why do I need to now add to the priority list of, well, where am I going to live? This is my home. This is the one home that I have, that I spent a lot of time, money, and effort to nurture and cultivate and make comfortable for us. And then you went and burned it down and you expect me to now go figure out where I'm going to live? Like, that's not really fair. I'll let you know when I'm at that point. But by the way, our lease is up in June and I'm probably not going to be at that point until June

because I love my apartment. And like, what did he expect to be roommates? Like, he didn't, again, didn't register. Think about it. Didn't think about it were there conversations about how rent would be paid he pays rent as he should he's on the contract as he should so i don't know i don't know what his plan is i don't really care uh kyle alluded to the fact that uh when we get to watch season eight back, the breakup will make more sense to us.

But you clearly had filmed all of season eight and it sounds like it didn't make much sense to you. Do you have any idea what Kyle might be referring to or do you think Kyle's is team Carl at this point? I mean, Kyle's always team Carl. Craig. Craig definitely. Craig said that? Okay. Well, Craig was there for two days. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, I. Yeah. I would imagine that they're going to put the season together to make it make sense. Well, I don't know. Have you had conversations production about that? Because, you know, we all know the show is edited. Right. They can take things a certain way. Right.

They can show you getting as blindsided as you felt or they can make it seem like every fight you guys ever had. It's obvious. And then do pickups with Carl. And we really like it really wasn't like this crazy amount of fighting. Like you would think that like we fought all summer. We did it. It was really like a couple of things in the beginning, which we got through pretty quickly. And then the last two weeks, but the whole like middle portion, we were great. So like this whole idea, the narrative that people try to paint, like they were fighting all summer. No, we were not, not at all. Not in the least bit.

It's normal couple arguments, relationship, you know, disagreements that are not like this crazy like elevated fights of you know i don't even get activated anymore which is sad there's not a single lindsey activation on the new season i think my activation just looks a little different whereas like i'm not like blackout and yelling at you off a fireball. I'm more just like, more just like, you know, giving you this, like, I'll fuck you up face and speaking more articulately. What did this breakup teach you about yourself? Um, that I'm stronger than I think. I mean, I've always known I'm a pretty strong girl, but I'm also very, very human.

I mean, I've always known I'm a pretty strong girl, but I'm also very, very human. And, you know, I think with every breakup that's as serious as know, in my, in my, my grieving process. Um, I was like, okay, I got this. You know, I, I went on the trip with my girls and I, those girls, I've never seen friendship like this in my entire life. The way that they rallied around me, the way that they flew into New York, they were tag teaming each other, making sure I was never alone. I never felt alone. Any emotions that I was feeling, they were feeling with me. Who stepped up the most? You know, I think about, I had a wedding in Portugal a week after the breakup and it was for one of my best friends and I didn't want to miss it at all because she was actually on season one. Her name is Jacqueline. And, you know, we've been through a lot together. And I didn't want to miss her wedding. I wanted to be there

and celebrate her love with her fiance, now husband. And I had one girlfriend using her points to book another best friend to go to Portugal with me so I didn't have to go alone. And I cried and cried and cried about it because I just thought it was the most beautiful thing that friends could do. You know, it's like an army and like I would not want to fuck with these girls. They're the strongest girls I know. So I really just regained my strength from them. And after I did that, I, you know, got this confidence of on just thinking about this absolute disaster of a breakup and just started putting one foot in front of the other and kept the momentum. And then I started traveling and I was like, all right, I booked myself. Like it started with the Bahamas and then it was, you know, I went to Denver with a girlfriend and and we had like a really fun weekend.

And then I came back and I went to D.C. and then I went to Nashville and then I finally was in New York for like the last two weeks, you know, just sitting still and and went to dinner with all all the summer house girls. And that was fun. And, you know, just been putting myself out there more in New York now. Yeah. I was, you know, seeing you with all of the girls. It looked like such a nice moment. Can you talk about how, you know, at times during definitely season seven and maybe season eight, there seemed to be some tension. Can you talk about how your relationships with all the girls in the house are now? Yeah, we had I had a really great summer with the girls. Yeah, we had I had a really great summer with the girls. Um, we really got along. I think, you know, there was a I think after after season seven and after that reunion, And by the end of the summer this this year, like we were we were in a really, really good place. And she has been so incredible, you know, throughout this entire breakup. And she's really been there for me and super supportive. there for me and super supportive. Gabby came over every single day, you know, that first week until I wound up in Portugal and she's been incredible. And then the other girls, you know,

they've they've sent me texts and, you know, checking in on me every now and then. And, you know, even over summer, like, you know, those last two weeks, if something happened with Carl, like they were right there to validate me and help me, you know, understand different perspectives and give advice and listen. So, yeah, I feel like I'm in a really great place with the girls and it's nice. And, you know, as the story goes, as one thing, how's it go? It's like the closest a door opens a window. How was, like, was Danielle just as shocked

or what was her read on the situation? She, I know you guys had a bit of a falling out, but the three of you were very close. She had a front row seat

to much of the relationship. Was she as blown away by Carl's actions as you were? Yeah. I think everyone, quite frankly, was.

I think everyone was very blown away like no like literally no one expected it to happen like the way it did and you know um i you know i think people might have had hesitations like danielle definitely had hesitations um but i still think that she was shocked by the whole thing yeah on the topic of danielle's hesitations. But I still think that she was shocked by the whole thing. Yeah. On the topic of Danielle's hesitations, like looking back to kind of the way the engagement went down with this hindsight of the breakup, has that changed the way you view her actions at all? Listen, I think an engagement is like one of the biggest moments in someone's lives and

you know that's one of those things that you just don't touch with any negativity at all whatsoever so that whole conversation blew my mind no i'm not you know i'm not gonna say like it is what it is i don't yeah i don't think that her actions last year were like necessarily justified but you know i do think she does have good intentions and she does have a good heart. I think her delivery is just often. Do you think she sees that now? Yes, she does. I didn't really understand.

She was like, I'm not trying to make this about me, but. Montage of her talking to everyone. There's no but after I don't want to make this about me. It's their engagement. I get you're close, but like. Yeah. She's been incredible, though, in this whole process. And, you know, she, she's been incredible though. And, and this whole process and, and she, you know, she's, she's very clear.

She, she, she made it a point like going in, I think to this summer or like going into the idea of something happens, like I'm going to have to take someone's side here. And she obviously chose my side. So it's, it's been nice having her, her you know as that lockstep friend again i really like someone who can take a side because a lot of people don't some friends like to be switzerland does it feel like anyone in the cast has taken his side he who must not be named i mean obviously kyle yeah where is amanda do you think yeah i don't know. I mean, I think she's more of like the, in the history of Amanda, she kind of like is more Switzerland and doesn't necessarily take sides. It's hard to tell.

I mean, I think we're all pretty much in agreeance that the way it went down was pretty messed up. Has how Carl handled this, and I understand your situation was unique because you were engaged, but will it adjust how you maybe handle more sensitive issues on the show in the future? Just because of how impactful this was to you. Like, will you be a little bit more careful about blinds blindsigning someone with information or,

you know, how do you see that going forward like how how has this breakup adjusted how you're going to approach filming summer house in the future um i think in regards to my next relationship i'm going to be a little bit more protective over how much I share just because, um, you know, every relationship that I've been on on camera has blown up. So I think I'm going to be definitely aware of that in, in my future. Would you be open to like having a personal boundary around maybe not involving your relationship on a show? To be honest, I think I'm owed a personal boundary after all of this. I mean, I've given this show every single thing that has ever happened to me with open arms.

And I can't say that for everybody. I think at this point, if I want to keep, you know, some elements of a personal relationship to myself that I should be allowed to a certain extent, you know, like, obviously, like I said, I'm an open book, always have been. But if it's a significant relationship that I want to protect, I think I think I am I'm owed a little bit of leeway with the personal details of a relationship. Well, we have a bunch more questions for Lindsay, especially like what's next for her on the mend. The future is bright for her, but, uh, maybe let's take the spotlight off of Lindsay for

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oh okay i took the whole thing come on let's see so what happens when it's not cold oh my god want some coffee to chase it no it's not bad and it's like lukewarm coffee oh cowl all right how's it going hi i'm i am 26 i recently hooked up with my friend's brother at her wedding and want to shoot my shot now okay oh does your friend know about this hookup i think so so i thought that i played it cool at the wedding and then I recently found out that I did not play it cool and that we were talking like all night. And she had mentioned to some of our friends being like, Oh, like, is what I see going on there going on there? And they're like, I think so. And she's like, Okay, sure. Oh, okay. Wait, let's back up. Let's back up about it. Yeah.

Define hookup. So does this mean kissing? We didn kissing a little sex but we everything but same bed naked together yes oral no you get a little hand just we don't we yeah just made just like heavy padding stuff and yes heavy padding a couple tuggies and otb hj yeah and under the pants hj yeah utphj how did how did we leave it was there a finger bang involved no well we some so this is like kissing and heavy petting yeah yeah like we so you rounded first was he double clicking the mouse but they were mouse well we almost had sex and then we were both too drunk and so then it just didn't work out and the next morning i was like this is not a good idea so we're not gonna have sex oh did you would you say you made it awkward in the morning i think well so we had a brunch the next morning

oh so this is the night of the wedding families The whole family is there. Yes, the wedding night. Okay. And then so the whole family is there. All our friends are there the next morning. And I was brutally hungover. And I probably made it weird. And that I definitely was just like, well, I'm going to go now. And he's like, is that it?

And I was like, yeah, I got to go. Bye. The friend knows, but you haven't really talked to her about it. Yes. So like the friend, I don't, the friend doesn't know exactly what happened. It sounds like she's like into it. She's not offended. No, I don't, I don't think that she's offended. And like, they're not like super close.

Like she's, he's three years younger than her. She's two years older than me. We met in college. I've been friends since, but we're not like best friends. We just kind of run in the same crowd. And her and her brother, like, it's not like they talk all the time. And she's made comments before being like, you should date my brother. Oh.

And at the time, so. So the big question is, is do you. You want to shoot your shot. Yeah, she wants to shoot her shot. But the question is how. And you were there. We weren't there. Do you think you can just

pretend the awkwardness really didn't happen and then come up with like hit them with a like hey how you doing or we can come up with some joke or whatever or do you feel like you need to acknowledge how you like dined and dashed so to speak and like make a make a joke or something you know like hey sorry about that i think the issue is that i tried to make uh like a hey if you ever want to come to philly and hang out because that's where i live let me know and because i had gone and got drinks with his younger sister the next night because we had all made plans to watch a game together he bailed i felt like i couldn't bail just because he was bailing and so then i went anyways and i had asked her his sister for his number and did she give it to you she gave so i texted him and i i said

hey like if you ever want to come to philly and hang out let me know i like i hope you're feeling better blah blah and his response was like, yeah, I'm feeling a lot better. Thank you for the invite. That's it? Yeah. Hate that. Yeah. Thanks for the invite.

I said that there's so many things that I did not want to go to. What else would he have said? Yeah, sure, this weekend? said that there's so many things that i did not want to go to also like that's what what else would he have said like thanks to the like yeah sure this weekend like you know what he could have said that i would love to have been better it's good for you i don't know he could have just kept the conversation conversation is he far away from philly does it require like a plane or a car it's like 20 minutes oh oh he still lives in the hometown he's 20 minutes away yeah oh so like over the hill if you're in la that's just like a

well maybe he was busy at the time that you sent that text you know i i don't know i what are your intentions do you just want to like hook up or do you want to see where this could go? I think I enjoyed spending time with him. I think the only red flag to me is that like, if I go for it and it doesn't work out, then it could be awkward with my friend. Only if you make it awkward. Okay, so like, that's about it. Yeah, that is true.

I think in regards to your friend, so I dated one of my best friend's brothers and I, the whole way through, and it was super casual. Like this was like a guy that I was like in between all my other bigger relationships, I would always just like see if it worked and like see if we could make it work. And really it was like, just so I could be my best friend's sister or sister-in-law. But I was very open and honest with her the entire time. Like anytime I was like talking to him, with him, whatever, I was just always very communicative with my best friend because she's the priority. But I think with the guy, I'm always an advocate of shoot your shot. Like we live in a female world right now. And, you know, you don't have to wait for men. We know it takes

them a lot longer to process their, no offense, Nick, but like, you know, like get things going then, then females, you know, like I, I, I'm a shoot your shot kind of girl. And if you don't put it out there, like they don't necessarily know. So my personal advice, and maybe you'll disagree, but my personal advice is just like, hey, like, you know, what are you doing in the next, what's your schedule in the next couple of weeks? You know, do you want to come to Philly one night?

Like you have to be very direct with men. They don't pick up as easily as women do again sorry nick no none taken i mean i agree with lindsey i would just even be more direct i wouldn't ask a question i would just well that's what that was my thought was that i kind of like was there i feel like i was too nonchalant and that like if you ever want to come and he could have been busy that night like he could have been like cool things and like was like off to it i mean i want to see you again oh oh oh yeah okay about as direct as you can get no that is true i also don't listen i also wouldn't be scared of rejection. I know the main reason that people don't shoot their shot is that they're scared of rejection. But for every like one rejection, there's a million yeses. So I just don't be scared of rejection ever. And let me know if you guys

disagree, but I don't think you have much to worry about in the friends department of it being weird. I truly think that he will probably more than anything like it's your problem. I don't think you have much to worry about in the friends department of it being weird. I truly think that he will probably more than anything, like it's, you're probably, I don't want to say you're closer with the girl, his, his sisters than you are. But I feel like if you shoot your shot hard, if you text him, I want to see you again. And he doesn't, he's not feeling it and you know, rejects you. He'll just avoid you for a while. And I just think you don't, I don't think you have to i i saw him once in college my freshman year you have nothing to worry didn't see him again until the wedding so as long as i didn't see him for six years like i probably will never see him ever again until

they get pregnant there you go so the baby shower and that'll be about it he's not gonna call up his sisters and be like guess who text me who i turned down? Almost certainly that's not going to happen. So unless you bring it up, your biggest concern really isn't that much of a concern. And it sounds like both sisters are fine with it if he wants to. Maybe we should just text him right now? Oh, text him now. What are you going to say?

Okay, what did we decide? I want to see you again. I want to see you again. Do we ask the question, what's your schedule next weekend or next week or this in the next couple of weeks? See what she says after I want to see you again.

Yeah, because I feel like it's so punchy, but it's still not too high key. It's just a very effective text solo and then we can get into scheduling from there kind of thing. Does she say like, hi, hey? Now, you didn't really answer this question are you looking for to hook up with them or are you like maybe this guy i could date are you just not sure yet somewhere in between i'm not sure yet

i feel like we talked for like hours at the wedding but again like that's like talking to someone at the wedding which i feel like is heightened emotions because you're all at a wedding and you're drunk you're very drunk so it's like i don't know if i will enjoy his company sober okay yeah do you want like that that's or like i'm i'm great for heart of the pain i want to see you again is about as direct as you can get i mean you could if you wanted to soften a little bit like we should hang out again. Yeah, soften that. I want to see you again is a little... That's like I've been thinking about you. That's kind of like, I can't wait to flirt with you.

That's like you've hung out maybe a couple of times and you've been texting a bunch in between. We should definitely hang out again. There you go. I'll be able to send that. Yeah, soften that. Did you already send the first one no scratch that we should definitely hang out we should definitely hang okay so we should definitely hang out again okay

did you put an exclamation or a period or no no punctuation punctuation no punctuation i don't know the whole answer right now but we'll see doesn't matter that's okay circle back it matters but like it doesn't really matter he'll answer in three hours when he gets off work circle back with us and give us and if he doesn't then that is an answer as well there you go we love that period well if he doesn't then that is an answer as well there you go we love that well if he doesn't then go on dates with 15 other people yeah fuck him

do you follow each other on social no he doesn't have social media oh I like that that's cool no Instagram nothing which I feel like is harder in the sense of I really have to shoot my shot then.

Have you Googled him? No. You always got to Google. I was like that too. I do know his sister, so I feel like that was Googling it. Yeah, I guess. All right. Well, let us know.

Keep us posted. Send us some DMs and let us know yeah keep us posted send us some dms and let us know i can't wait to find out all right good luck i want to wait a few seconds but we gotta go yeah there's no way he's writing back right now like okay when he does work well if he doesn't answer how about tonight amazing that'd be something that would be something all right keep us posted i will thank you all right take care bye all right lindsey i know we have to wrap up but i think we're already there well you gotta get back on a plane well we gotta go see our baby okay i understand what responsibilities adulthood i the only really big question I had left to ask is like, how the fuck do you film another season of Summer House?

Because it's not like Vanderpump where you guys live in your separate homes, but you're still in kind of the same group. You kind of do your own thing. Summer House is you guys move into a fucking house for an extended period of time and have intimate discussions whether you like the people or not and that's what makes the show but like how do you plan on doing this also what else haven't we covered that you might want to cover to answer your first question i don't know because so many things could happen between now and then um i don't know where i'm to be at mentally there with him.

Like by that time, I could be in a state of like, I forgive this guy. I'll never forget. I'll never trust him. He'll never be my best friend, whatever we can film. I could also be in a I will I never want to see him again. I don't know. Like so much could happen in this next nine, 10 months until that filming period happens. I just don't know where I'm going to be mentally. You know, when you have two original cast members

that this happens to, it's a little bit sticky and tricky. But, you know, every day for me gets a little better every week gets, you know, exponentially better. And like I said, like I, I'm living with like a very positive mentality with like a full heart and looking towards my future. And I'm really, really excited for my next journey. Like I just spent the last two years like compromising and, and, and trying to, to be the best partner I could be to somebody spent the last year planning a wedding and like, you know, gearing up for a future that is not happening. So I'm really excited to just go out and be free and single and explore my opportunities and where that takes me and just kind of see where that goes. Have you dabbled in dating at all?

I've dabbled in flirting. Dabbled in flirting. Okay. Yeah, it turns out i'm really good at it okay has that flirting elevated to any you know base rounding or mild hookups or kisses or not yet but i can't wait um give your eye on anyone i i don't have my eye on anyone. I'm not taking anything too seriously right now. I'm really focused on just finding joy and happiness and somebody who matches my energy. I have a lot of energy to give this world and I have a lot of, you know, drive and ambition and excitement and all the things that Carl didn't think I had. You know, I'm excited to dedicate that to somebody

who's deserving of it and, you know, receiving that back in a way that I also deserve. In your next relationship, how do you plan on kind of qualifying that? Like, how do you plan on making sure? Because after talking to you, it sure sounds like as wonderful as you might've loved Carl then and in the relationship at the time, but having taken a step back from this relationship,

you've realized that maybe, you know, I'll just say it, maybe Carl didn't match your level, so to speak. Right. And maybe he has a good heart and maybe he tries hard to do his best, but you need someone who's maybe at a different level with a certain level of ambition

and has their shit together, which Carl's still on that path. How are you going to make sure that your next partner can bring that to the table without you having to find out years into the relationship? Um, I think, you know, having some deep, tough conversations early on. I think it's, it's, I think I can pick up pretty quickly right now. Right now, like my main list is like drive and ambition hopefully you're successful already and also like emotional

intelligence i think is big for me at this point in time and and intimacy sexual compatibility chemistry stuff like that um performance. And so I'm just... Shut the fuck up, Nick. It stirs the pot. So I'm excited. I don't know. I don't know how to find that out without scaring someone away, right?

Because like... But maybe scaring someone away isn't that bad of a thing. Right. I'm guessing you have not scared away a lot of the wrong people in the past. Yeah. Maybe I should try to scare more men away.

And if they don't go away, I'm like, okay. It's a weed out course. But truly, wouldn't you say your person, whoever that person is, won't be intimidated by you, won't be scared away by direct conversations and honest communication about topics that are necessary and needed to have a successful relationship yeah that's there's a lot to get out but you know what i'm saying you know like maybe i also like i that's also like what i'm looking for is is is really like you know someone who yeah i guess I can get deep with me, but also, yeah, not be intimidated by that. And I have a lot of confidence and I don't know where it comes from.

I think it comes from just like as a kid, I just always had to keep up with the boys and, you know, necessarily impressed by it, but, you know, is is more is successful in their own right that they they're like, that's my girl. That's my fucking girl who's like crushing life over there on reality TV and I'm crushing life over here. And it's a completely different industry. Do you ever feel like Carl was ever proud of you? I do. But I also feel like he was intimidated by me as well like intimidated by maybe my you know my outspokenness and my popularity and and and everything that comes along with being on a tv show but yeah i do think that he was proud of me i i really do but i also think that you know

over time when someone is doing so much to succeed and excel like that's weighing on somebody who you know yeah is not like is in a transitional moment. Let's talk about your future. Do you know anyone who is single who is not on reality TV? I mean, that are worthy? Have you guys had any guests on? Hmm. Well,

do you like country singer, country singers? Dustin Lynch, he's in the market. He says hi, by the way. Do you know? Oh. Oh't need us literally we're fired anyone else um what are you looking for what's your type well we've honestly physically i have no type if you like take a lineup i have it's like tall short brunette blonde you know literally

everything like i my friends have made fun of me for 15 years there is no type physically for me it's more about it's more about mental capacity right now if you were to wake up and it's June what would success mean to Lindsay like where would you want to be like like where are you in your life what's your relationship status how do you feel about Carl okay you know it's so interesting I actually had this conversation over summer about my version of success and I had this conversation with Carl you know my version of success in my mind has changed over the last 10, 15, 20 years. So in my early 20s, it was like climb the ladder of PR and get to the top and really succeed at my job. And I did that. Then in my early 30s, it was like, own my own PR firm and make sure it's successful and keep it afloat and, you know, hustle around New York City, the hardest city to hustle around in the whole entire world. summer, my version of success was like engagement, marriage, and starting a family. And like, to me, that I really find that to be a success. But I will say, since everything happened,

I am reinvigorated. I'm re-inspired. I feel challenged again. I am focused on myself, whereas before I was so focused on not only myself, but somebody else and pushing two people instead of one. And now that I'm pushing one, it's like I want to own real estate. I want to make as much money as humanly possible. I want to write a book, which has been sort of on the back burner for me for a couple of years now. And now more than ever, I'm like- Start journaling. It is time.

It's time. So I'm re-inspired in a creative way. I'm re-inspired in a financial way. And I think the rest will fall into place. For all the ladies out there, or men, who maybe recently got out of a tough breakup, especially an ended engagement, what advice would you have for them?

God, great question. Advice, I think, you know, advice is easier to give than to take, right? But I think in my situation, it's like. You know, really think about what you want, really think about. Who you are and know your worth and don't settle for less. You know, I think when when you get out of like a tough breakup, you just pick yourself up like like I said everyone handles grief and pain and heartbreak differently but life goes on and just keep in mind

that this is only temporary time helps and um I'm very understanding that not everyone moves quite like I do mine was a little bit easier because there's no lingering feelings. But, you know, you just have to put one foot in front of the other and keep it moving. All right. Now you got to go. We got a plane to catch, folks.

Oh, wait, wait, wait. What did your couple's therapist say after the breakup? I never went back. Oh, you never talked to them? No, he wanted me to. And I was was like how did you cancel the couples therapist do this on camera and then beg me to go to couples therapy you canceled the couple's carl try to drag you back to yes yeah and then he had spent like the last two weeks of summer telling me couple therapy wasn't working i'm like dude you just spent the last two weeks telling me this wasn't working.

Then you canceled it to do this on camera. And now you're sitting here trying to get me back into couple's therapy. Like none of this makes sense. None of this, this is like, this is not making sense to me. And I am absolutely not going to a couple's therapist when there is no couples involved.

Well, Lindsay, I can't thank you enough. You seem like you're in great spirits, truly. Thank you. And only two months. I mean, I think that's not lost on me, at least someone who's tough. Tough breakups can be tough. Two months. You've crushed it. Yeah. I've been through a lot in life. Right. So I think it gets easier. Like once you really work through your emotions, which I, you can't like- It's like you know you're going to survive this. Like you can't numb your emotions. I chose not to numb them and I chose to just dive in to the deep end of emotions and really

feel the feels. And then I was like, all right, that's it. Moving on. And like I said, he made it easy for me to do that. Well, we wish you absolutely nothing but the best. Thanks, guys.

We are super excited. Not only, well, you answered all our questions, but obviously we'll watch season eight, but I'm already excited for season nine. Yeah. Season nine. Season nine.

Yeah, single Lindsay. Single Lindsay. Indifferent Lindsay. It's another hot hub summer Yeah. Single Lindsay. Single Lindsay. Single Lindsay's a... Indifferent Lindsay. It's another hot hub summer coming at you. There we go. Thanks for listening, guys. We certainly enjoyed this episode with Lindsay. Hopefully you did too.

Tell your friends, subscribe, all that fun stuff. Send in those questions at asknickatthevilefiles.com for all things texting, office hours, mediation. Ask Nick, you know the drill. We'll see you back on Monday. Bye.