The Viall Files - E674 Ask Nick Updates Special Episode - Part 14

Episode Date: December 1, 2023

Welcome back to The Viall Files! Today we have another special “where are they now” update show where we give you updates from our past callers to see what’s happened in their situations and relationships since appearing on the show.  We bring on our first caller, the infamous “Debbie,” who had originally called in regarding a strange text from a romantic interest, but has since started to date women and found herself pursuing drama instead of good partners. When we left off with her, she had begun to date someone new and seemed to be displaying healthy dating habits, but has she fallen back into her old ways? Our second caller had called in after a third attempt at a father figure had failed. Her stepfather had caused an immense amount of financial stress on her family, so we find out where their relationship is at now. Our third caller’s father had destroyed their family by dating the woman he was interested in. We find out if his relationship with his father has mended at all, and where he is in his own dating journey.  We also have some written updates - Our caller who was catching feelings for her prison pen pal, our caller who was trying to figure out if her guy friend is into her, and our caller who was debating tattling on her ex to his mom about his cheating in order to get him off her lease.  To catch up on all of these callers original questions please see the show numbers:   Original Episode numbers for callers: Episode Number: 646 Ask Nick Updates Special Episode - Part 12, 630 Ask Nick Updates Special Episode - Part 11, 575 Ask Nick Updates Special Episode - Part 7, (First appeared on 545 Francesca Farago - Likable Villain Gone Bad) Episode Number: 617 Ask Nick Updates Special Episode - Part 10 (First appeared on 566 Ask Nick - My BFF Flirts With My Husband Episode Number: 604 Ask Nick Updates Special Episode - Part 9 (First appearance on 579 Ask Nick - My Dad Stole My Girlfriend)   Original Episode numbers for written updates: Episode Number: 624 Ask Nick - Falling For My Prison Penpal Episode Number: 663 Ask Nick - Should We Get Married for a Visa? Episode Number: 652 Going Deeper with Heather Dubrow Plus Rachel Leviss’ Auction and Sophie and Joe’s Agreement “He’s an inmate f*ckboy.”  Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://www.viallfiles.supportingcast.fm  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  Join us for our new LIVE show on Thursdays at 9PM ET/6PM PT on Amp, available in the Apple app store. Android User? Listen here: https://www.onamp.com/  To Order Nick’s Book Go To: http://www.viallfiles.com  To advertise on the show, contact [e-mail] or visit https://www.advertisecast.com/TheViallFiles  Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @alison.vandam @liffordthebigreddog @dereklanerussell @genevievegoodman

what's going on everybody welcome back to another exciting episode of the vile files update special edition for classic, y'all. We love bringing you these updates, and we got some good ones. Some returning updates, some OGs, some fresh updates. Super excited to bring it to you all. As a friendly reminder, I know you know I'm gonna

say it, but we know you guys love these updates. Every time we drop it once a month, hundreds of thousands of people are listening to them. So I know you guys are thirsting for more. You're itching for more. So check out the updates that we have. I think we have 15 or 16, maybe even 17

update specials behind Vile Files Plus. So many juicy updates that you are missing out on. So just check it out. Do yourself a favor. Treat yourself this holiday season to Vile Files Plus. It's free to sign up. Try it for seven days.

Hell, you can binge a bunch of update specials in seven days. So give it a try. Just go to vilefiles.com to sign up, and away you will go. We also are recapping Vanderpump on Vile Files Plus. I think we're just wrapping up season two. And every week, Pop Extra, all the juicy pop culture topics we didn two and every week pop extra. Well, the juicy pop culture topics we didn't get to all week long. So,

all right, enough of that. Amanda, how are you? Oh, it's a single household. Yeah. Today.

It's a skeleton crew. Everyone else is editing, doing busy work. We're doing so many things, you know, so we're, um, we're grinding hard for you guys.

We're grinding hard. The team never stops. Amanda and I I hope you had a very happy Thanksgiving wherever you spent that time whether it was with family or alone I hope it was enjoyable oh my god

I'm thinking about Meatball Gate Meatball Gate I'm reminiscing it's been two years since Meatball Gate that makes me feel old like you know when you see like childhood actors or like you know like the Home Alone guy

like Macaulay Culkin and then it's like feel old yet and it's like Meatball Gate was two years ago feel old yet yeah no I know I feel yeah well and unfortunately grandma passed good news is I won't be able to offend her

anymore do you think there's um are there any Thanksgiving sides that you might be opening your heart and mind to? No. Okay. No.

Anyway, yeah, we're recording this ahead of Thanksgiving. Yeah, so. I am looking forward to going down there with Natalie and her family and having a little celebration

of life for Absolutely. grandmother. It's going to be a nice little occasion uh what were your what were are you going home i'm not going home for thanksgiving um because i had a family wedding that was like a few so it just felt like too much and i also i wanted to make sure if there was someone who needed to hold down the fort um but when i was home so my dad it's i find it just

so endearing he makes fresh cranberry sauce every year. And it's very good. Pears and apples. It's very well spiced. And he jars it himself at home. And I remember when I was a kid, he would always send me to school with cranberry sauce the Wednesday before Thanksgiving to give to all my teachers and whatnot. and as an adult i am marveling at like what a good little gift it is because i saw my boyfriend's mom while i was in boston because she lives there and it was like the perfect little something where it's like it's not too over the top as a gift but it is like very heartfelt and thoughtful so now i'm having a little crisis about maybe i need to get what are you gonna do what thanksgiving do you have plans you're gonna hang out with nick i think i'm gonna hang out with dick that's the plan okay and i think he has a friend he has like a really good friend from home who's in town who might be with his sister so it might be like kind of a a friends giving me a fair because i've started going to an al-anon meeting which has been

really good and they're doing something on uh the morning of thanksgiving which is so smart because i think holidays are that makes sense such a time to be like affected by that um yeah do you put up christmas decorations yet is that too soon for you when you put up christmas stuff or do you like i don't know i don't maybe there was definitely a stage of my life where as a single guide it just wasn't on my radar yeah i think because right now i'm in it's like some jewish girlies i think we're not do you celebrate christmas yeah i do because my dad's like i mean irish catholic and you know not religious but culturally i guess um and so my grandmother always has a really beautiful christmas tree so that's the real question

does grandma jean have her christmas tree up by now and also did she try to do it herself this is a huge issue of my family is that my adorable sweetheart arthritic five foot one grandma will try to like haul up this tree and like put it up on the table herself and every year we're like grandma don't do it and i'm pretty sure there was one year where she was she fell and was trapped under the tree and so my uncle found her was like oh my god oh god and god bless her tree yeah it's a fake tree which you know poor gam gam poor grandma i know you guys are tuning in for some updates so we have a written update before we get to our callers and it's a good one we sure do this is from ava who called in on episode 652 this was our interview with heather debrow and texting office hour yes a texting office hour caller

who was debating uh tattling on her boyfriend to his mom because he cheated on her and she wanted to get him off the lease although it became kind of clear throughout the call that like she didn't really need to he she could get him off the lease basically and like yeah she was it was like how petty do you want to be absolutely and i feel like our advice was to just let it go well it's it was so funny because when she was really wanting to say something our like your advice at first was if you're going to tell her, you better say the tech, the details of what you found, because there is there's some daddy calling. There is a really. Some really unforgettable infractions there, some unforgettable highlights. Yeah.

And so but then we kind of got to the point of being like, you know, probably not the most productive. So Ava says, I'm doing much better when I called, I felt like I was already well on my way to moving on. But there was this lingering desire to make sure that before I did, he was going to hurt in some way. That sounds so evil when I write it down. The advice y'all gave me was maybe not what I wanted, but exactly what I needed to hear. Reaching out to his mom would just cause hurt for more people. And I didn't want that to happen because of me. Enough people were hurt already. And let's be honest, she didn't need to know her son was referring to himself as daddy. So I followed your advice. I wanted him off my lease just for my own peace of mind. But since

there were no real implications, I haven't followed up with my leasing office. I can see them asking for the parking pass back when I decide to move, but I'll cross that bridge when I get there. So she still lives with him? No, no. I think he's moved out. It's just like the paperwork. Okay. Gives a shit.

It's the formality. Yeah. And I think I could see, I don't know, because it is scary in a relationship where suddenly you're like this person I was teammates with and trusted and who probably knows my Hulu password and all these things. Like suddenly they're not on my team. So I could see how you might be kind of freaked out. Like, what will he do with the fact he's on the lease? Will

he try to do something shady? But it seems like things are OK. She did want to keep him on the lease in order to have the extra parking pass, which I totally get. So it seems like the parking pass might be revoked, but the jig's not up yet. She said, I haven't spoken to my ex since before I called in. He texted me a picture and said I did it a few days after graduating from his really intense military training program, which I received as I was getting ready for a date. So she got this text while she was getting ready for a date. She said, I lolled, rolled my eyes and never even considered responding. Although one of my friends suggested I respond with, you're clearly still sending me messages that are meant for other people,

which is a savage reference, I think, to when he accidentally texted the daddy stuff. I really do feel like getting the advice from y'all was the last thing I needed to be able to fully move on. So after I called in, I felt like a weight had been lifted. Since then, I've been working on myself, prioritizing my mental and physical health and figuring out what I really want so I can date with intention. I've been on a handful of dates with a couple of guys. One I knew from home and had history with. He's been separated for two years after being married for nine. After a few dates and building on really good chemistry, he told me he wasn't ready to jump into anything.

I told him I wasn't necessarily either. But I didn't want to get hurt. If it got to that point before him. So I decided I'd take a step back. And he stopped texting me. Probably wouldn't have done this pre-Wi-Fi. The other guy. Yeah she's so far making all the right decisions.

Yeah we love to hear it. What a healthy person. The other guy heard my, she's so far making all the right decisions. Yeah, we love to hear it. What a healthy person. The other guy heard my story through my sister, looked me up and started pursuing me. Not much there, but he likes to take me to fancy restaurants. And hey, it's hard to say no to that. I just got back on the apps a few days ago and I'm running into some unexpected issues. My closest girlfriends are also single and looking. And the dating pool around here is the size of a kiddie pool.

We've noticed some overlaps already and it's kind of tough to navigate. Would love some advice on that. Sorry for the obnoxiously long update. Don't apologize for that. I mean, not much you can do other than like swap stories and make sure you're not overlapping. But like expand your circle. I mean, you're talking to a guy who met his fiance in sort of long distance relationship. And I've always kind of enjoyed meeting people. And like, it's been fun to like kind of get to know someone over messages or FaceTime calls and things like that.

So expand your search, you know, open up to maybe the biggest, closest, you know. And you don't have to decide now whether you want to get in a long distance relationship. And certainly like it might not help all that much because, you know, they might not have your search area and their filter, but be open to dating outside of your small town. That's all you can really do. I also feel like maybe not mentioning it to friends until you've been on a date with them and have a sense of if you like them or not, because I don't really think it matters if you were like matched with the same guy or even we're both messaging that guy. It's really about like,

are you kind of pursuing one another? And I think it could also be, I don't know that where my head goes is just that it could be easy to compare notes at every step of the process. Be like, have you seen this guy? Did you match with him? Did you talk to him? And so I think maybe being mindful of not sharing negative things about a person who just wasn't your person. Yeah. So because then, because if you're like, oh my God, no, he was so boring.

Like, oh my God, just went on and on about whatever, like finance. And then your friend matches with them like she's not going to give him a good chance totally because she's going to be like oh well he was the reject of this friend so i think just being like mindful of that that's that is great that is great advice as far as like the people you are dating in your hometown but also like you just ended a relationship like maybe just also just chill out a little bit and the having to get back out there it's good that she is and she's making all the the right moves it sounds like but maybe just slow down a little bit you don't have to

have a date every week i don't know if she is because it kind of almost reads that she's anxious to get back out there and move on from this guy and that all makes a lot of sense. But just take your time. And be open to expanding your search. And then, like you said, yeah, maybe with the girls, like, be careful how much information you're sharing at first. Because, you know, you don't want to yuck someone's yum. Totally. You know? And they might be your best friend.

But we all have very different tastes and people and personalities. And you can be friends with someone and good chance you're not liking the same people right and it's like the golden rule treat others how you want to be treated of like you wouldn't want somebody to go in with some like very negative opinion of you because of how you showed up also like every time i mean come on you know you're on a date clearly that person might not be into you and you're like i don't even like them anyways. And all of a sudden your revisionist history is that they sucked.

But deep down you know that you guys just didn't hit it off. Yeah. I think short of feeling really weird and unsafe on a date, I don't think you need to warrant people. Tell the story. But if it was like, this is not for you. Yeah. You know?

Well, he didn't ask me any questions questions maybe he just wasn't interested in getting you know like it's gotta be like a story you know yeah but yeah other than that that's good advice alright well let's get to our first update again don't forget Vow Files Plus so many more available to you

alright let's get to our first call question time with me let's ask nick your sexy questions welcome back debbie hi nick how are you i'm wonderful uh how are you i mean you've called in several times now most recently episode 646. OG episode being with Francesca Farago on 545. Saying your words, what did I say to you? You told me that I'm too dramatic and that I'm all about the drama and I don't really know what I want because I just like stories and getting attention. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah. Yeah. I heard it loud and clear. All right. And where are we now? So I had my therapist listen to that episode, by the way. Really? What'd she say?

We talked a lot. She agrees with you, but we talked a lot a bit about that. And I honestly made such good improvements. I wanted to share. Wonderful. With how I'm dating right now more intentionally already. So I matched with somebody on Hinge. And they're a little older than me, more mature. It's a woman.

And we met at a bar for the first date. It ended up being a six-hour date. Oh. I met her friend. We went to a kickback in someone's backyard. It was really nice, chill, getting to know her. But I did have, you know, hesitations because it wasn't that original spark that I had originally with some other people. Probably a good sign.

It's hard for me, though. Like, I'm really wanting that spark. For you, the spark is the drama. You are looking for that unexplainable feeling that justifies you acting out of control. You avoid stability and calmness. So this is, she's very calm. Yeah, but I'm saying is like you not finding the spark on a first date is probably a very good thing for you. What did you do after the first date?

So I'm very intrigued by her, but we've been having boundaries. We haven't followed each other yet on social media. This was her doing, by the way, not me. How did it even come up about social media and following? So I had a funny story on my story that I wanted her to see. And then she was like, can you iMessage it to me? Because I don't really like to follow people for the first few dates. Because I get to know somebody. She said that. Great.

And did you tell her that you had a story because you wanted her to follow you? And that was a passive aggressive way? Kind of, yeah. Well, that's weird. It is weird. It's weird behavior. I know that was weird. That was weird of me.

Debbie, I consider us friends. And at this point, I'm going to pull zero punches with you. Yeah, it's super weird to start following people you go on a date with because most first dates don't get to second or third dates. And then you have to like, why are you following someone you went on one date with? That's bizarre. Like you're trying to lock someone down immediately through like passive aggressive behavior. You know, you are trying to find stability through superficial means because you somehow have convinced yourself that her following you is important or it means something to the success of her liking you or their relationship. It's totally superficial.

So good for her for saying the obvious and normal thing, which is like, hey, I'm just not comfortable with that right now. And so where are we now with her? So it's been two weeks since the first date because I was out of town and she was out of town and now I have COVID. We were supposed to go out tonight, actually. Oh, okay. We're doing a virtual date night tonight. I've never done one of those before. Love that.

Who suggested that? It was actually me that suggested it because I wanted to keep things going. I've been texting back and forth that I'd rather see her. All right. What is your goal for tonight's date? So I want to get to know her, obviously. I guess I shouldn't say there was no spark. There was a little bit of spark, obviously, because I want to see her again.

She's just being upfront and honest with her feelings and communicating. So you're not left to wonder or ruminate about whether she likes you or not and there's not some dramatic story and you don't get to go to your friends or us to be like well i don't really get what she's doing and she's doing this and then i fainted and blow out of the fuck also your first date was six hours long like that is a story if you want it to be a story there was obviously some sort of spark that you hung up for like what did you do for six hours like you could tell people that like it's just i'm reluctant to like you do for six hours? Like you could tell people that. Like, it's just reframing. I'm reluctant to like even ask for her story

because I almost want her to enjoy not having the story. But yeah, it sounds like you had a nice first date. You don't need to do anything more than just be excited about the potential and then open to getting to know her more. What is your goal for this second date? I want to get to know her, obviously. So usually I feel like I use social media as like kind date? I want to get to know her obviously. So usually I feel like I use

social media as like kind of a crutch to get to know somebody. Like to see like their hobbies and interests. To see if there's anything like that we have in common. We talk a little bit about it. But I'd love to know more about like her in general. Like growing up. Those things like that.

But I feel like it's hard when there's no like physical body language to pick up on. You're Zo zooming so you can certainly read her body language you're not going to be touching you know so as long as she's on camera you can certainly read her body language but even if you can't like you can still ask her questions and you can learn about her childhood you can learn about her wants and desires things things like that. You know, you can certainly get to know her better via a Zoom date. It might not last six hours and it might not be a fun story to tell your friends or call us, but you can certainly learn a lot about her. It's just like to show an interest. Be curious about her and ask follow up questions.

Follow up questions are the key. So whatever she says, oh, that's interesting. Something that I've also tried to do as well, and this is maybe more for like texting or dating app things, but I think it's easy to fall into the traps of, oh, what did you do yesterday? Or what did you do this past weekend? Which that's a data point in and of itself. But I've tried to challenge myself to be like, what does your dream Saturday look like? Or what does a typical this look like? Because even if they did something crazy yesterday, how do our lives really go together in certain ways? Or what is something that is something that they're really passionate about or something that they do really

frequently? So even if you get the data points of what they did in the past week, maybe that was just a random week. We're trying to get kind of an overall scope of who she is as a person. What her interests are. Just keep it conversational. If she tells you a story about a like, oh, well, let me tell you about my day. I got really stressed out when X, Y, or Z happened. I'm like, oh, wow. Show some empathy. That must have been hard. And focus on getting to know her rather than focus. You on dates are constantly in your head asking yourself, do I feel a spark? The only person you've been caring about on first dates is yourself. On first dates, I would agree with that, for sure. But I want you to focus on her and be open and allow her the chance to get to know you. But

that's up to her if she makes it a priority. But so far, she sounds like a relatively healthy person. Listen, she still brought you around her friends and family on her first date. That's a bit much. But if it made sense, then fine. I i hear i hear that you ladies when you date you like to move quickly so word on the street so stereotype but yeah it's true but try to be the you know thank god you have someone who at least doesn't want to start following each other but like challenge each other to take things slow and And you can say things like, I've really enjoyed getting to know you so far. No matter what you learn about her tonight

or what she learns about you, you will still know a fraction of each other. And it's your job to get to know her and allow her to get to know you, to be open to answer her questions, to give meaty answers, to elaborate on follow-up questions, and just be open and be chill and to not analyze the date in real time. And when you get done with the date, then you can check in with yourself and ask yourself,

oh, how did I feel about that? Then the only feeling that you should really be concerned about is the one of clarity. Do not be searching for the intangible whatever feeling that you should really be concerned about is the one of like clarity you know do not be searching for the intangible whatever feeling that you can't explain like the spark and i hope that you get excited about her if you like her you like confusion and clarity almost makes you uncomfy and so you are on a date here trying to get clarity so i think that's all you should do i think at some point if it feels right if it makes sense you can say listen you are on a date here trying to get clarity. So I think that's all you should do. I think at some point, if it feels right, if it makes sense, you can say, listen, you can be a little vulnerable and say, you know, I'm kind of in this transitional period in my life when it comes to dating.

I've had a bad habit in the past of, I think, chasing the wrong things and moving things a little too quickly. So, you know, this connection I'm developing with you is new to me, and I'm really enjoying the healthy pace at which it's going. And honestly, thank you, by the way. Thank you for setting that boundary about social media, because I'm not used to that almost healthy behavior, but I really appreciate it. See how she responds to that.

I will. That sounds great. I'm excited. All right. Well, good luck. I'm glad that you suggested the Zoom date. Feel better. And then check in with us down the road and go from there.

Also, if you get stuck in a rut, just Google, like, great date questions or whatever. I do that with friends even sometimes, too. Yeah. It's always fun to learn more about people. And you can Google something or share your screen. Random questions. Yeah, you can Google, like, fun first date Random questions. You can Google fun first date questions. List of random fucking questions.

This or that. Do you like the east coast or the west coast? Do you like to be hot or cold? Big or small? I don't care. Polka dots or stripes. It doesn't matter. Make it a conversation. There's nothing wrong with you suggesting ways to make conversations easy between you and your date. No, I love that. I will try that. No more comments. And Debbie's

drama turned into Debbie's do-over, I feel like. You know? Ooh. There you go. That's a rebrand. That's a rebrand. Well, good luck on your date. We'll check in and we'll get an update in the future.

You're our poster child for Does It For The Drama. But I changed. You have. Oh, my God. Tell us more. I know last time we spoke, I had COVID and I was doing a virtual date. And you were giving me kind of ideas to get to know this person. And I actually ended up dating her for the last time since we've spoken.

And it's been very, I feel like a very mature relationship. I feel like it was not about the drama at all. There was no chaos. If anything, there were boring parts, but I kind of leaned into that and really got to know her for who she is. But yeah, it didn't end up as I wanted it to, but I did feel like I did take your advice to heart and there wasn't this drama around it.

What do you mean it didn't end up the way you wanted it to? So we ended up, you know, ending things and it was, you know, hard. with queer relationships, I feel like the stereotype is kind of real, the six hour date every time, and really getting to know, you know, someone in like an intimate level. And I felt like I was vulnerable for the first time in a while. But yeah, we ended up cutting things off. And it's hard, but I definitely feel like I'm in the right direction, but I'm already dating again, which is not great. So I want to talk to you about this. I feel like there's a part of me that's addicted, not to drama, but to dating. I feel like I'm addicted to dating. And what do you mean by that?

Like, I feel like dating gives me the short-term reassurance from people, this validation that I get. and i wanted to kind of get your advice on whether you think you know dating after you know you've worked on yourself for a while and you were in a solid relationship is it worth jumping right in or do i need to like take a break but how long did this person for it was around three and a half months okay it's not terribly long and I guess what was your emotional state when it ended I mean it like just ended like literally a few days ago and I already went on another date last night why did you go on another date last night because I find dating fun and i feel like it's not about the drama

i know you're gonna say that but trauma is just like a it's not like a technical term you know it's just and at the end of the day it's just to sum it all up i mean it's all encompassing maybe it's some sort of avoid like when you were were on this date, like, did you, are you still sad about this? Like, or did you, did it end in a way where maybe you're disappointed, but you understand this isn't my person? Like, I guess, did you go on a date because instead of grieving and being sad and allowing yourself to process the emotions from this, you know, despite it being short, meaningful relationship that you had? And did you decide to go on a date because you would rather avoid those feelings and just try to pretend that everything's fine

and go on a date? Or is part of you glad the relationship ended because now you get to date again? Like when you say you you get to date again like when you say you're addicted to dating like any other addiction not being an expert in addiction whatsoever but you know it's like hey i you know as if it's alcohol you know it's like you sacrifice other healthy relationships because you can't give up alcohol so you know if she ended it even though you didn't want to okay that's her choice and yeah you're single she gets to go on a date but you know what i'm saying like what do you mean by you think you're addicted to dating because if you would have told me i ended the relationship it was like if you called me up and said it was really great

and there was really nothing wrong yeah maybe there's bits of boringness, but ultimately I ended up with her because I just wanted to go on another date again. Then I'd be like, okay, maybe there's a problem here. But all I'm hearing is maybe you just avoided grieving a little bit. And instead of doing that, you figured to go out and date to get a fix of excitement slash drama. Yeah. I mean, she is the one that ended things so it wasn't you know my choice by any means i feel like dating gives me this like short-term validation you know everyone wants to be alike obviously of course yeah

and i think dating gives me that like kind of i feel like the six-hour dates like you know the term like love bombing i'm a familiar i guess yeah familiar like i felt like almost a six-hour date like do you even think that's healthy like going on six-hour dates in the early stages getting to know someone i mean it depends on the date you know but if you're always going on these first dates and you're just kind of always going with the flow and you're trying to extend the date as long as possible, then yeah, maybe there's an issue there. It doesn't sound like you're dating with intentions to meet someone and form a healthy relationship. It sounds like you're dating for, again, I say drama, but call it validation.

You're dating for a fix. You know, you're dating for to scratch an itch, to fulfill some sort of temporary desire. So yeah, maybe there's, I don't know if you're addicted to dating, you're addicted to, again, drama, the attention, the fix, the validation. And when you go on a date, you know, and if it goes well, someone might be like, oh, you're so pretty. You're so nice. You're so funny. You're so wonderful. You're so this, you're so that. And all those little comments feel good, you know? And then maybe, especially if it's centered around or, you know, a breakup, you know, yeah. Now you have this new person being like you're so pretty you're so great you're so wonderful so funny so smart all around you know it helps you forget about the

person you decided to say i don't want to invest in you anymore and so i feel like i'm trying to intentionally like i definitely want to find my person and have a partner. I just feel like, I don't know, dating in LA is really rough. I know, like the apps are just... Yeah, but you don't have a hard time dating. You got dumped. Like 24 hours later, you're on another date

and lasted six hours. Clearly, you're not having a hard time dating. Yes, it's tough to date in LA. It's tough to date anywhere. And LA can be particularly challenging. But you don't seem to have a problem with it like i i'm meeting people i'm going on dates with people i'm having a good time but i'm just not finding well i just don't feel like you're you're you're really able to be yourself

because you aren't good at being alone at all you're not good at being content alone like you didn't allow yourself to even be sad over this girl. You haven't reflected, you know? Do you know why it ended? Do you care? Are you being introspective at all? Like, what did you learn

from this three-month relationship? I don't think you need to go on some sort of soul-searching journey, but, like, it's something you should maybe consider at this stage in your life. It's one thing to be a 19-year-old and go out there and just like, I'm just going to fucking date and have some fun.

How old are you again? 28. Yeah, I mean, you're so young, but you're finishing up your 20s. You're old enough that I'm sure you've had some fun. You've fucked around. You've played the field. I don't know what your intentions are for dating but if they are for the intentions of meeting someone that you could potentially start a life with then you know

maybe it makes sense to take breaks slow down take some off, be alone for a while. Because right now you don't date. I mean, just your words. But I don't think you date with the intention of meeting a life partner. I feel like you date with the intention of seeking that validation and getting that fix and feeling good in the moment. And yeah, like obviously we want to feel good in the moment and we don't want dating to suck, but like you're not really, it doesn't seem like you're in the moment then yeah like obviously we want to feel good in the moment and we don't want dating to suck but like you're not really it doesn't seem like you're in the right headspace to think about what you want long term because all you're thinking about is what you want right now i definitely do want a partner like long term and i agree with you like breaks are probably good but what does that look like for you you know

and at 28 years old you're exploring this new kind of dating and this requires some reflection on your part and you don't seem to be doing a lot of that so it just feels like you're going at full throttle full speed and you never slow down a little bit to reflect about what actually makes me happy? What am I actually looking for? My past handful of partners, who were they? What was their gender? What was their attitude? What was their personality? How did I connect with them? Who did I have the most fun with? What bothered me the most? the best part about dating and having relationships of any kind of any length not work out is that it should be information that you can use in your next relationship, but you don't seem to ever really take the time to think about what that is.

I feel like I am reflecting though. Like I'm definitely, you know, in therapy and I do have these conversations with friends on what I'm looking for. You know, I did think about this breakup, but I do think I am always on to the next person, next person. And I feel like it is kind of like a numbers game. I mean, it is a numbers game. It's a numbers game to a point. Again, just to kind of depends on

what you're looking for. I mean, it's a numbers game when you like go out to the bars and like, I just want to go home with someone tonight. And if you hit on enough people, you I just want to go home with someone tonight. And if you hit on enough people, you'll find someone to go home with you. But finding a life partner is a little less of a numbers game. I think it's quality over quantity.

Yes, you have to get out and date. And you have to be active as a dater, especially in 2023. But you don't have to be so active that you're just kind of, all right, as soon as I break up, on to the next, get on the apps. But you have to figure out what you want, what makes you happy, and what kind of relationship you're looking for, and start being a little bit more selective. Yeah, I think that's my problem, the selective piece. Because I do agree.

I do find good qualities in people and easily kind of attracted, and I connect with people pretty easily. But as someone who admits that you like going on dates and getting that validation, you have to self-police and ask yourself, why am I here? Why am I doing this? And you can't be such a, you can't be so gullible for a compliment. And then turn that compliment into this like, oh, wow, this made me feel good. And if I feel good around this person, I must like them. And if I must like them, then I should date them. And that's kind of what we did when we were teenagers,

but now you're 28 and you need to mature in terms of how you go about selecting these dates. Because right now you're still into, as you've admitted, more into the fix, the validation, the instant gratification. Yeah. I mean, like looking back on the woman I was with the past few months, like I feel like objectively on paper, like we're just incompatible with each other. Okay. And when did you realize that? Like on the second date. And why did you date her for three months?

Because I thought she was a cool person we had we had a genuine connection no doubt yeah open communication sure i was vulnerable she was very supportive like there were just like core things that wouldn't have worked out between us sure um i mean my again i don't i think you've read my book i don't know right i did read your book there I don't know, right? I did read your book. Yeah, there's a whole chapter. You did find my book. Yeah, wonderful. There's a whole chapter about compatibility being more important than chemistry.

And that's not saying chemistry isn't important, but that whole chapter about how I talk about how chemistry can be manufactured, it can be faked, it's hard to trust, it can be a part of your environment, it can be face faked it's hard to trust it can be a product of your environment it could be situational yesterday i was having a very interesting conversation with my friend jojo who talked about like uh um that i don't know what you think about this uh amanda but she was saying that if you're a woman's first as a lesbian that there you almost have some sort of power over them that there's this chemistry that of like if i were a woman and you were my first sexual experience as a woman that no matter what happened after that i would just i would like it's like that first love first crush you know i don't know if that's true that was coming from jojo maybe that's but like but my point is is that

you just started dating women. So that alone, you might feel a little extra bonded to these women than you otherwise would because it's this new experience. And you will always remember your first couple women that you've dated. And yeah, you had some chemistry or something. But as you pointed out, you had nothing in common. You cannot be compatible with some really cool people. Hell, sometimes when we realize that there's certain characteristics and traits and skills that we don't have, we can be drawn to people who have those traits that we don't. And even though we don't even want to do the things that they normally like to do,

we just like admire the fact that they're good at things that we're not, or they like things that we don't, and we can be drawn to those types of people. Again, chemistry. But you are just, you're so addicted to that fix, that feeling, that instant gratification, you know, and you're never focusing on building connections and you're not prioritizing compatibility. You should never, at 28 years old, continue to date someone that you can reflect, take a moment, sit down and think about, okay, how are these first two dates?

I don't think we have anything in common, honestly. We're very different people. You should stop dating that person right then and there. You should, you know, you should be the big person and reach out to them and say, you're, you're amazing. I've had so much fun with you. Like, honestly, like we have some pretty good chemistry, but I just, you know, I just not sure if you're my person. We have a lot in common and yada, yada, yada. But you know, you're prioritizing chemistry that fix. And you're just like, oh, but she's good. And she's fun. But like, now you're prioritizing chemistry that fix and you're just like oh but she's good and she's fun but like and you just ignore the fact that you really have nothing in common and in fact she was the one who ended things with you so you wasted two or three months

because you already had the answer and you ignored you ignored it you know and because all you cared about was that fix that she gave you every time you saw each other, every time you hung out, every time you had sex, all while ignoring the truth, which is this was not someone who was ever going to be your person because you knew deep down you didn't have enough in common. of dating that are just like universal and questions that are just like between two people and then i also think there's specific like nuances and specificities within queer relationships i think for me like what i'm thinking is like take a month off of dating for real like force yourself to do it like it's not about like what like dating like men women non-binary people like all the genders like just i i find for myself at least like it's just so easy. Like I like thinking I like reflecting, like trying to understand stuff like in my brain. And so it can be very easy to just kind of like spiral into a reflection loop and not when it's actually just a simple action that I need. And I think for you, it's like you don't know what

you're avoiding until you stop avoiding it and confront it head on. And I'm saying this because I've definitely had periods of time where I've been like, it's kind of a power trip feeling like you can go on dates whenever you want. It's also there's this part of you that's like, but I also genuinely like connecting with people. I also genuinely know I want partnership to be a huge part of my life. So in that way, there's a million ways where you can say it's productive or fun or worthwhile to go on dates. And so no shade there whatsoever. But I think it's productive or fun or worthwhile to go on dates and so like no shade there whatsoever but i think it's pretty simple of just like having the discipline to take like four weeks off of dating and then seeing when you feel uncomfortable and why you feel

uncomfortable because i think like that's kind of the data that would be most helpful right now i think that makes a lot of sense yeah i mean obviously taking the break it is what you should do i just more like when you start dating i want you to think about i want you to prioritize compatibility yeah i just never like you can do what you want i feel like you should never as a 28 year old woman as you know smart fairly you know self-aware that if you can as you said to to us moments ago, that you knew with this person that you dated for three and a half months, that you knew on the second date you weren't that compatible. And at a minimum, I want you to realize what you just said to us and what that means for you. And I see it as you ignoring yourself and wasting your own time and again if you're in this

exploratory phase of your life great again that's why I ask why are you dating yes if you're addicted to dating you know like if you're like hey listen despite me being 28 I just started dating women I just want to like I just want to date around. I'm not dating to meet someone right now. I'm just dating to meet different types of people. Then fine. That's your intention in the moment. But just be honest with yourself of what that intention is.

Don't tell yourself you're looking for a life partner and then act like you're more in this kind of exploratory, kind of adventurous part of your life. Because if you're looking for a life partner at 28 years old, then you wouldn't be dating someone you know you're not compatible with and wait for them to break up with you just because you enjoy a little bit of chemistry. And I think right now, when you meet someone, as soon as you either find they're attractive or they tell a funny joke, and you find them charming, you immediately ask yourself, can I like them? Is there something there? You don't even ask ask yourself am i compatible with them do we have anything in common you know what does a life look like with them you know yeah i guess i feel like

do you have any advice like other than obviously i'm gonna take a break i hear you on that i need to take a break for sure but i do feel like you know on the apps it is kind of forces you to like the person even though like if you match with someone on an app you go out with them yeah like you know nothing about them and if there's chemistry like that's kind of what you go off of sure like you don't necessarily know the compatibility at the beginning i guess you meet someone and if you're lucky enough to have chemistry with them you can acknowledge that yeah i think this person's cool we had a great time fruit and charismatic super charismatic i'm interested in learning more and then so you

learn more and then you check in with yourself and then at some point you know you're either going to learn if you're what you have in common or what you don't have in common i don't know how you got to the conclusion after the second date with this woman that you knew you weren't compatible, but somehow you got there and yet you ignored it. Yeah, dating apps are not, they don't feed you people that some sort of algorithm has done the legwork for you and been like, I know that if you spend 10 years with this person, you're going to fall in love with them and get married. That would be amazing if we could just somehow have some sort of algorithm that said, yeah, this is your person. Actually, I don't know if that would be amazing, but. You kind of remind me of like the opposite of sometimes people call in or I have friends who date in a way where they're like, it's like a one strike, you're out policy of like, there's this kind of like really trying to evaluate everyone and being like, oh, nope. Okay. They're gone.

This is why it's almost like a lot of these friends are the people they hate dating. It's really a means to an end. And they're like, I'm just looking for the reason to be like, see, I told you this wasn't the right thing. And this was a waste of my time. And I'm frustrated still. And I feel like you're in the opposite side of that, where it's like, you're so open-minded. You're so willing to hear something from a person and absorb new context about it and see if it is in fact the like a deal breaker or a red flag or just an indicator of a lack of compatibility like you're so much more willing to have there be more to the story than like what they say and I feel like that's a beautiful quality but it also means that like I think it's just so much

work on your part and I think the question is not where do you like, is, do you find yourself trying to convince yourself that something's not an issue or you're debating whether or not something's an issue? For sure. I feel like I definitely do ignore red flags. Um, and I've never actually broken up with someone before, like at all. Yeah. I mean, I'm not shocked to hear that, but cause as long as you're getting a fix, a validation from them, you're good. Yeah. I mean, I've never been the one to end things like ever. You know, for someone who's dates as much as you do, that's not normal. You're not listening to yourself. You're clearly not speaking up.

You're not communicating the things you like and dislike. And you're just, and you're not learning about people through the lens of, is this someone that I can be with? You're not evaluating yourself, your relationship, them. And like, I'm not saying you should go ahead and like dissect people, but you're never checking in. You're just like, again, you're not dating with any intention to finding a life partner. And if that's fine, as long as you are honest with yourself about that, but you are telling yourself that you are dating with intention when in fact that you're not. And I think if you're someone who's naturally able to be really adaptable and flexible to connect with people, then it can... And tell me if I'm projecting here because sometimes I feel like that when I was dating of, oh, I'm able to kind of I love the ways that like people can bring out different sides of me and challenge me and like cause me to like lean into different, you know, and just like feeling like I'm trying to be a well-rounded person.

And so one person that I'm seeing, it's very easy to like both feel authentic, but also lean into a side of myself that like maybe I didn't lean into with another person. authentic, but also lean into a side of myself that like, maybe I didn't lean into with another person. And that's where I think like the merits of taking this break is just being like, where do you like, where do you fall on your own? Because it's like, I know you could do you could do a backbend, or you could like, I don't know why yoga poses are coming to mind. But it's like, I guess it's like fitting into like the shape someone else, you know, like you could do downward dog, you could do wheel, you could do all of these like different poses. And so you're capable of doing that. And that's like in some ways an amazing skill that serves you so well in life. But like right now with dating, it's like you're just figuring out what someone wants and then making it happen. And I think like that hopefully like in taking a week off, just being like, what do I want to do base standard? you base standard. And then hopefully from there, that's where you can start to be a little bit more like, actually, no, I'm sorry. They're getting the ax. Even though I could switch myself into this other pose, I know I could adapt and make it work. I'm doing this and I like it right now.

Does that make sense? No, absolutely. I think I compromise way too much. I think I do try to make it work with everyone. Well, yeah. And it's actually not shocking that you started dating right away because like, again, deep down, your body told you, this is not my person. And then once she ended things with you, you're probably not that sad about it because you kind of knew deep down she was never going to be your person. So other than getting over this ego blow and you're like, well, yeah, sure. I have a little bit of an ego blow, but she left me, but I'll just fix that by going on a date. You're not connecting with people. You're not forming meaningful relationships. It's all kind of very surface level.

Because as long as you're having fun and having some sex and getting the occasional compliment, you're good. So what's your friend circle like? My friends? My friends are awesome. Great. My friends are all in relationships. Great.

That's kind of an issue for me. It's not an issue. It's an issue for you, but it are all in relationships. Great. And it's kind of an issue. It's not an issue. It's not, well, you know, it's an issue for you, but it's not an issue. I would, if I were you, I'd prioritize being a great third, fifth, seventh wheel. I'd prioritize being the friend who goes out with your friends who are in relationships and have fun with your friends and shut up about your dating life. And don't make every time you hang out with your friends about your dating life, which I'm guessing you probably do a lot.

And I bet they love it. I bet they eat it up because they're like, whatever, but stop doing it because that's just your way of being the center of attention. You need to be hanging out with your friends and not be the center of attention. You need to ask them how they're doing and you need to be the best third or fifth wheel and you need to have fun with your friends. You don't hang out with your friends. You can talk about your dating struggles or your dating drama and things like that every once in a while. Fine. But like maybe I, not only should you take a break from that, from dating in general, I think you need to take a break from talking about your dating life with your friends and start being a

friend to them a little bit better because I'd be willing to bet if I sat down with your friends, as much as you think they're great and they are great and I'm sure they like hearing your stories, I bet they would be like, yeah, Deb talks about her dating life a lot and sometimes it can be exhausting and sometimes she kind of always makes a situation about her and her dating life. And I'd be willing to bet, despite them not wanting to hurt your feelings, if I was asking for some kind of harsh feedback for Deb, they might say something to that effect. Did my friends call you in? No. Did my friends call you? No, I've met you before, you know, and by you, I mean, like, I've been this, I've been you before.

I've had buddies who have been you before. We've all been you before, but like, you need to make, change some patterns that you have because it's not it's annoying. You know, I've been the annoying friend. I've had my buddy who is just like everything is about dating. Everything about meeting women. We walk into a bar. He immediately had to leave if he didn't immediately find a girl that he found attractive that he could pursue. And I was like, dude, can we just like hang out and have fun?

And I at a certain point started prioritizing just being a good third wheel, going out with my friends, going solo to a wedding and not fucking make it about like complain or gripe or hope. Is there anyone there you think I can meet? I, it wasn't about me meeting people. I didn't ask questions about, you know, I wasn't trying to get hooked up. Do you know when I could set up, set me up with my dating life was my personal life. I did it on my own when I wanted to. Maybe every once in a while there might be one friend I'd be like, Hey, can I run something by you? Sure. But like I stopped making my dating life, some sort of like major, major motion picture that I would download to all my friends every time I saw them.

that I would download to all my friends every time I saw them. No, I agree with you. Yeah, I mean, my alter ego, Debbie, I feel like they're sick of hearing Debbie's drama. Yeah. I feel like... And they're just kind of being a good friend to you and listening, but I think you need to focus on being a good friend to them in this month of taking a break from dating

and shut the fuck up about dating. Okay. Okay? You got it. All right. And if I meet some, like, I don't know, did you meet Natalie when you were in, like, I guess, what mindset were you in when you met her? Was it kind of unexpected?

I mean, I had been single for seven or eight years, you know? So, like, you're talking about taking a month break. So, why don't we just calm down and stop worrying about if you meet someone, you know, that you have a problem of, of your, it's easy for you to find chemistry with people. So you need to acknowledge that and realize that like, just you feeling some sort of connection or chemistry with someone isn't all that meaningful for, especially for someone like yourself. Okay. So get off the apps stop replying dms put it this way play hard to get for a month if someone's like oh but i think you're

great let them pursue you be like i'm really just not taking some time for myself but and also it's the holidays so you kind of have that natural like built in a month is not that long i mean quite honestly you probably should take a little bit more than a month. You know, when you're taking a break, you should be working on yourself. You should be focused on being a good friend. You should slow down and think about what do I really want when it comes to dating? When I do start dating, whenever that is, how am I going to act? And what am I looking for? Because right now, I'm not convinced that you're actually looking

for a life partner. And again, fine if you're not, you're only 28. But stop telling yourself that's what you're looking for while you're acting like you're not. That's so real. Thanks, Nick. And I feel like my friends are going to love you for telling me the honest truth about that. No problem. Where to help? All help all right well we definitely shouldn't hear from you in a month so maybe in three um in the new year how about that in the new year all right yeah definitely you got you definitely shouldn't be dating before the new year go out meet people no not unless no not unless and again like it's great that you have that ability to connect with people, but you need to pull back and stop. Because you can't trust the chemistry that you feel with people because you're not good at listening to yourself.

I'm not I don't really have anything compatible with this person and you dated them for three months until they ended things with you you told us that you've never ended a relationship that yeah that's problematic you know and that says I don't listen to myself and until you listen to yourself you it's kind of dangerous for you to date so okay I'm staying away from this you know when we say take a break or this month i mean that's we just made up a timeline you know like it really you should get rid of the timeline it should be about like you checking in with yourself and practicing listening to yourself and what what is my body telling me because your body told you that you weren't compatible with someone there is zero chance that if you were listing yourself with all the people you've dated in your life, that you didn't come to like, yeah,

I mean, yeah, they're cool, but like, I don't really like that they do this. And we don't, I don't like this. And instead of listening to yourself, you ignored it and kept dating them until they ended up with you. And that's not healthy. You're not setting yourself up to success. And until you're able to listen to yourself and trust yourself, it's dangerous, I think, for you to date because you're going to find yourself, the worst thing you can do is you're going to meet someone like you. And then you guys are going to get fucking married. You know, and you know, I don't know what you want for yourself, but I hope that it's contentment and happiness and a fulfilling relationship. And I want you to be able to trust the person that you choose to want to be with. And I want you to feel good about the connection that you have with them and have a, you know,

and feel good about the future. Not this kind of like, well, oh, you know, and I want, and when someone asks you like, what do you love about them? I want you to just like be able to like ooze out all these wonderful meaningful things and i want to have substance behind it what do you have in common what do you do like you know what i'm saying i hear you well maybe one day i'll find that person that's not like me all right well i mean you're you you have a lot of great qualities but there's this one thing that i want you yeah no i want you to really work on you know and this i'm just basing off the things that you're saying to me yeah i'm hoping this break will help

i think i definitely need it so all right good luck happy uh holidays merry christmas happy holiday happy hanukkah happy new year yeah happy holidays to you too and nick maybe one day you'll be at my wedding maybe maybe we got we got some time okay all right thank you all right take care all right good luck take care all right bye-bye okay bye all right well good always good talking with debbie always always always i feel like i'm getting meaner and meaner with her you are yeah yeah but she she needs that she also like loves it well it's also i'm like do you are you taking her health insurance this feels therapeutic it feels like there's a continued so i feel like you're coaching deb. Yeah. It's informed consent.

Debbie knows what she's getting when she calls in. Well, it's just a lot of the same stuff over and over. And I can't physically shake her. Yeah. Debbie was someone who likes the drama. You can't help people who don't want to help themselves. And I want Debbie to want to help herself. And I want her to do more than just recognize that she has a problem. Because saying you have a problem, I get it, yeah, it's a start. But she likes talking about her problems because it makes her the center of attention.

I also think talking about problems, you can easily equate it to solving problems when those are two different things. Yeah. And she's not that interested in solving her problems as much as she is talking about her problems you know but i think there's a lot of great takeaways from that call totally totally so anyway we have another writer in her we sure do okay so this is an update from tiffany she was originally on episode 624 this is uh the person who called in because she was catching feelings for her prison pen pal. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Who she found on TikTok, et cetera. Yeah, we looked him up on the gram.

Good looking cat. Yeah, I remember him. So what's up? So Tiffany writes, shortly after the pod, I met a girl on TikTok in the comment section of Kay's video. Kay is what I'm going to call the guy. She commented that she was, quote, talking to him for a few days, end quote. So we started messaging back and forth. She gave me a lot of information, including messages, et cetera. Nothing flirty by any means,

strictly friendly, but somehow it hurt my ego slash feelings a little bit. Her and I realized we are practically the same person and talked every single day since after all of that happened him and i ultimately stopped talking she made a friend out of it yeah i love it it's like the bachelor you know um there are multiple groups on facebook very similar to the are we dating the same guy groups but inmate version if you can believe it lol i can i can indeed believe i love how many communities like any niche it's like there's going to be a facebook group there's going to be a community there's going to be drama oh my gosh so her and i this is new friend decided to

post k on there anonymously just to see if anybody else was talking to him since her and i figured out that we were both talking to him. A girl from Australia commented saying that they have been, quote, together for a few months and that they were planning on getting married. This girl also included screenshots of multiple messages. After communicating back and forth with her, we discovered she does this a lot with multiple inmates at the same time. So basically an inmate hopper, for lack of a better word. Fast forward to a few months of Kay and I not talking. I'm at work one Friday and my phone rings. It's Kay. I answer and was super dry, pretty much. It did talk for a few minutes. I didn't hold back on questions about the above situation or how it made me feel.

Since then, we have been in contact daily. Messaging. Wait, why? She says messaging, video calls and phone calls. At this time, I have no specific expectations and I'm basically going with the flow, communicating. After doing research before the new discoveries, I found out it is almost impossible to get approved to visit them at that specific Idaho prison if you did not and cannot

prove a relationship slash friendship prior to incarceration. Kay did get granted parole and will be getting out in February. Not really sure where to go from here. Like I said, just going with the flow and not getting in my own head about everything. I appreciate you guys asking for an update and giving very helpful advice as always. Well, don't victimize this inmate hopper to justify you continue to talk to Kay. Yeah.

You know what I'm saying? Yeah. She was quick to point out that she's the inmate hopper. What is Kay? He seems to be a bit of a hopper as well. I mean, he's an inmate fuckboy who is building... And I get it. Fuck, he's in prison.

He's probably going to talk to as many people as he can. It's probably fun. It's dabbling. And our writer in her, she's not in a relationship with him no one's really in a relationship with him so he's not really doing anything wrong but she was quick to point out her flaw and not k's yeah and i just you know yeah like short of the the inmate hopper um being like completely delulu and like blowing up k's phone and him not responding like k played some there was some kind of participation on his part yeah and i don't yeah i guess to be fair i don't really know the culture in this kind of thing as if it's really common for inmates to make like straight male inmates to make friends with women who date men.

Like, I don't know if that's like a norm, like if there's kind of like a pen pal connection element to it, or if it's kind of an indicator that he is very happy to explore options. Yeah. And like, as he should, but like,

I mean, she said she has no expectations and that's good. If it's true, I would just check in with yourself and make sure that you really don't have expectations yeah because this guy is clearly talking to a lot of people and that's fine and they're not a relationship but i don't i don't think this is your guy and i just feel like maybe you know whatever you got out of this great but come on yeah i kind of like when uh she first called in i feel like and inmates deserve love too so this is not me trying to say that i don't know not all of them well yes not all of them that's a great point some inmates deserve

love it's an amazing point um so it's like I don't want to completely count him out, but it just feels like there's going to be such a change once he's on parole and sort of back in the outside world and getting his life going. And you just you have no idea how he's going to handle that. You have no idea if he's trustworthy when he has access to like other people that he could physically see. You have no idea what his priorities will be. i'm sure he has a lot on his mind and so yeah it's i don't want to condemn him but i'm just like that's just yeah well you know it's just he's talking to him every day now it's impossible yeah yeah so anyway here you're lying to yourself that you have no expectation you can't be talking to someone every day and investing that much of your time and energy into anything without having expectations about it. Because that actually would be maybe even more crazy. Yeah. So it's just like, wow, you have so much extra energy.

Where's this going? What's the plan? And so either be honest with yourself about what your expectations are, start there, or just pull back a bit because like that's a lot to talk to anyone without any expectation. Yeah. So I think we were both in agreement. Just check in with yourself, be a little bit more honest with yourself than you are being and either figure out what your expectations are and communicate that with him and ask yourself, are these smart expectations to have or pull back from how much you're

communicating with him? Because that is a lot of your time and energy to have no expectations. Yeah. Like don't let this man monopolize your love life when you haven't even really, you know, you know, you won't get to give dating each other a real shot until February.

This whole thing has become an obsession and Facebook. Facebook group, checking in, you know, this is very entertaining, no doubt, but where has it gotten you? And not everything we do has to get us somewhere. Maybe, you know, we just watch bad TV sometimes, you know? We're good. Good to do.

But just be careful, I guess, is the big takeaway. Alright, well, we got another update call let's get to it hold on to your kilts dearies Peacock original The Traitors is back with a new season of strategy betrayal, sabotage and murder

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only on Peacock. Ladies and gentlemen. What are you doing? What do you mean? Just keep it simple. I'm making the promo. Just keep it simple. Just say, hey, we're the Brav Bros. Two guys that talk about Bravo. Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls,

we're the Brav Bros. No. Dude, stop with the voice. Just keep it simple. I've seen promos on TV, dude. This is how you get the fans engaged. This is how you get listeners. We're trying to get listeners here. If we just say, oh, we're two dudes that talk about Bravo,

people are going to get tired of it already. We need some oomph. All right, then fine. Let's try to do it with your voice. Bravo, bros. Good job. Welcome back, Megan. Thank you for having me.

I'm excited to be here and give you a little bit of a messy update. Ooh, we love, well, I mean, I don't know if we love a messy update, but, you know, we also love a messy update. What's the original episode, Amanda? Yeah, so originally Megan was on episode 566, and then we had a written update from you that we read on episode 617. Okay, so originally this was, you were like a failed attempts at a father figure. Your stepdad basically left your mom and you had, you know, stole some money. I

think there was some financial messiness. Let's play a quick clip to bring our audience up to speed. My God, you guys. So do you remember Megan? She was on episode 566. She was caller number two. And she said that she had a failed third attempt at a father figure. Oh, I do. Yeah. And so this guy had recently ended things with her mom.

And all of a sudden he's posting on Facebook. He's like, I'm in a new relationship. He had some financial skeletons in his closet. And so I believe your advice was to maybe draft up a letter, put down her thoughts, and just kind of figure out what she wanted to say. So Megan says, I was on episode 566 and had the stepdad issues for context.

Since chatting with you, my partner and I bought our first home and have booked a trip to Europe this summer. So exciting. Part of the big takeaway from my time with you guys was to draft up a letter to my stepdad explaining how I was feeling about everything since he posted about his new relationship. And it had come out that he had a litany of financial skeletons that he hid from my mom and us as a family. It had come out that he had a litany of financial skeletons that he hid from my mom and us as a family. As I began to work on my letter, new information and dramas kept unfolding. And as a result, I never actually ended up finishing it. Instead, my frustration and hurt continued to grow as I heard how he was talking to my mom and the continued lack of honesty towards us as a family.

Turns out, wait for it, he recently withdrew and spent my mom's tax return without her knowledge from an account that he was supposed to close. He had made several bad investments on my behalf as my financial advisor that was costing me hundreds of dollars a month and claimed to not know about it. Had me collecting his air miles on my personal credit card for years without my knowledge. Wait, hold on. Had her collecting his air miles? So every time she spent on her card,

it resulted in a mile for him, I think. Oh, that's so sneaky. Yeah. How does one do that? Well, he helped me set this up as a 17-year-old kid. That's so fucked up. Yeah. You bet your ass he is. It's like you're getting the rewards.

He's a bit of a con artist. Yeah. And best of all, chose the same small town that my mom, brother, and I all live to move with his new family and start their life here when we are bound to bump into them. I finally had a phone call with him to confront some of these issues

and he says he still hopes for a relationship with my brother and I, but my response to him was that I hoped for accountability and respect for us and our 12 years of history and feel like I never got that. I told him that I don't know where to go from here because I am hurt and I can't trust him. Too much has happened and too much keeps happening

that I don't believe he understands the damage he's done. The phone call ended in tears. I feel like I said what I needed to say, which was healing for me. Although I do wonder what I will do if I ever bump into him at the grocery store. At least I know not to use the same Air Miles credit card when I am there.

Hope you guys are well and enjoy this little messy update. Wow. Well, kind of a sad update. Sometimes you just got to let people go. I think it's time to let them go. Megan. Well, and the fact that he's moving his new family to their small town. Like, I'm just like, it doesn't feel like he cares about them, which has got to be so painful after 12 years of viewing him as a father figure.

Yeah, no, it sucks. I mean, I'm not. There's no. It sucks. I mean, I'm not, there's no, it sucks. But as we've, as we said in our intro moments earlier, life is hard. Bad things happen to all of us. You know, it's not a matter of if bad things are going to happen to us.

It's just when. And even if that bad thing is we just die, you know, it's eventually, you know, we are going to deal with death and we're going to deal with sickness and we're going to deal with tragedy. It's just a matter of time not to get us all in a... And in between some of those very, you know, finite and tragic, painful experiences, there's a litany of all these other things that, you know, on some version we all have to deal with. This is all to say, like, it's just, these are just, I only say that because this is one of those situations with our writer in her, you know, because, you know, her title was like her third attempt at a dad kind of thing. It'd be very easy to, you know, let that self-pity come in.

And justifiably so. to let that self-pity come in. And justifiably so. She would be justified to feel sorry for herself in this situation. But clearly, this is a man who has proven time and time again that he's not interested in learning from his experiences. He's a survivor. He's a cockroach type of... There are people out there who they're just kind of willing to do whatever anything they need to do to get by to better themselves. And unfortunately, they can be charming and charismatic and they are not without having good qualities, you know. And so you are able to bond with these people. And the fact that, you know, he played a role as a father, it must be hurtful. But she can get through it.

And she sounds like she's doing OK, you know. And I just think it's one of those situations at some point, and I'm glad she kind of didn't finish the letter and didn't send the letter. It's like, sometimes you just have to give up on people, you know? She has to give up on him so that she doesn't give up on herself type of thing. This is going to sound almost morbid, but at some point I might lose some loved ones, some parents, you know, my parents. Like, I might lose my parents before I parent you know my parents like if i might lose

my parents before i lose myself i don't even like saying it but like i'm not going to go find a new dad or a new mom you know and so as an adult like she doesn't need to keep trying to find that father figure you know maybe the the male roles that play in her life are more than the partner or friendship companionship and things like that. So it just might be time for her to let go, you know, as a rather than finding that closure or trying to maintain a relationship. And it sounds like she's on that page. You know, there's no point in healing. I want to commend her as well for moving forward in her own life.

My partner and I bought our first home. We have a trip booked to Europe. Like how great for you. So many positive things she has to focus on, exactly. And I hope that she just gives up on them and doesn't kind of wallow in the, I could never find a dad. Clearly, her life has a lot of positives. And as a result, she is experiencing so many positive things. She's also had a lot of positives. And as a result, she is experiencing so many positive things. She's also had a lot of negatives, right? But thankfully, the positives have outweighed the negatives or allowed her to have this, what sounds like a fairly healthy relationship with her

partner, a lot of positivity in her life. And I think at times we can, again, it's easy to focus on the negative. It's easy to not focus on the positive. You can ruin a good thing by dwelling too much on the things that we don't get. And that can ruin the things that we do have. And so it sounds like she's doing a good job of whatever I am telling her to do. There's so many probably situations in which she just trusted this guy, only to not realize that she was being screwed over or manipulated and lied to and i can fuck with you you know all right uh in your words just give us a quick kind of rundown of the original call and then your written update that you wrote us in and gave us a quick update for

so essentially when i first called i was kind of looking to see like if it was worth salvaging a relationship with my stepdad. The backstory was that I had lost two father figures before him. They had both passed away. And so this one with my current stepdad was really important. We had had a relationship for about 10 years and essentially, yeah, the marriage didn't work with my mom. And when that kind of happened, we found out that he had had several kind of financial skeletons happening. And so I was just put in a really awkward position. And I felt like we had been lied to.

And so I was calling to kind of gain a little bit more clarity. And essentially, where we left off was you would encourage me to write a letter to him, um, explaining how I thought that, you know, everything went and what I was feeling. And, um, that was kind of where we left off from that. Okay. And then you wrote us in to give us an update. Yes. Okay. So then my update, um, I never actually ended up physically writing the letter because as I found myself sitting down to think about it, obviously, the summer was kind of crazy. Like my partner and I, we got engaged. We bought a house. So like lots was happening.

So I just kind of put that to the back burner. But I had done a lot of like thinking and reflection on it. And then as I was kind of reflecting, just everything just kind of came out of the woodworks. And I was like, I don't even know if this guy deserves a letter. Um, essentially what had happened, like one of the big things that kind of just really turned me off of everything. Um, he's, he was a financial advisor. Um, and he, he had what we thought a good understanding of how to manage your money and, you know, what we thought a good understanding of how to manage your money and, you know, keep your ducks in a row.

But essentially he came out that he, he stole my mom's tax return that accidentally got put into account, an account that he was supposed to close when they divorced. The account never got closed. The money got deposited in there. As soon as my mom like went to track the money down, it had already been withdrawn and spent. And then when we were planning, um, a trip this summer, I went to go and use some of my air miles that I had been collecting since I was 17. Cause when I was 17, he helped me set up a credit card

and he, uh, he had his collector number linked to the credit card that I had been using for the last like eight years or whatever. So I had been collecting air miles on his behalf. So all of those were essentially his. Um, so I was pretty really like, I was kind of shocked about that, that like, I don't know, I was collecting his stuff and not mine entered into a new relationship. And then he moved into the same small town that my mom, my brother and I had all just bought houses in. And so we just kind of were like, really dude, like out of all the places to like,

we're not saying where you can and can't live, but it just, it was in very poor taste with how everything was kind of left off. So. And where are we now? So since then, yeah, like I say, like i did confront him when the air miles thing came out because and that was also the first time that i had actually spoken to him but

i mean when i found that out i was like well i still intend to use these like i've been collecting them for eight years and we had enough to buy flights back to the uk um so i was like i'm i don't know what to tell you, but I am going to spend them. So I essentially gave him like a courtesy call and I was like, hey, this is really weird that these air miles are under your collector number, but I don't know what to tell you.

Like I have been collecting these. I have every intention to spend them. What do you say? Well, he was like, oh, I had no idea. Like, I'm so sorry. I had no idea, which has kind of been his excuse for everything is that he's just like he has absolutely no clue um so i mean that was

quite frustrating um and then it just the call just kind of turned into like it turned into just like a bunch of like tears on his end saying that he really wants to continue a relationship with me. And at that point, I was just kind of like, just really frustrated because I felt like after everything that had come out, I was lied to like, he's now not only crossing my mom, but he's also crossing me now. And I mean, we also looked into some of my investments because when I was young and came into inheritance for my dad, obviously he's a financial advisor. I allowed him to kind of look over my accounts and he was making several terrible investments over these last couple of years. My fiance looked at the account and he found it within the first like five minutes that I was spending like 200, $300 a month on interest to own this stock that like, I could have bought the stock out. Like it was just so like negligent. And he essentially called, well, like called my stepdad and was like,

this is the stupidest investment I've ever seen in my life. He's like, Oh, again, I had no idea. So, I mean, at that, at that call, I just kind of told him, I was like, I don't know how to move forward with you. Um, I don't trust you. Uh, and he's like, well, I really, I was like, I don't know how to move forward with you. I don't trust you. And he's like, well, I really, I hope that we can get trust back. And I essentially said, I was like, well, I had hoped that, you know, I could have had a trustworthy father figure for the last 10 years, but I feel like I've been lied to. And so that, that was kind of it at that point. And then, yeah, when my partner and I bought a house and got engaged, there was kind of it at that point. And then yeah, when my partner and I bought a house and got engaged,

there was part of me that like, I do feel really bad because like I was explaining in the first call, like, I just feel like he honestly, he just doesn't get it. Like he's just so surface level that like, he's almost kind of like just a sad, a sad puppy almost. And so when I got engaged, I was like, well, I feel like I want to share this with him. So I texted him a photo of my engagement. And I was like, I just wanted you to know, I got engaged today. I thought it was going to be like kind of a positive interaction. And he responded, he was like, wow, keep up the good work with a thumbs up, which like, whatever. But I was like, you know, I don't know.

After 10 years in my life, I just kind of thought it was a little bit deeper than that. Yeah. Since then, he just he continues to reach out and just says like, well, I want to start fresh. Like I want to I want a relationship with you, blah, blah, blah. But he's taken my aunt out on dates, which like I think is in very poor taste because his relationship that he moved to the same town with that your mom your mom's sister yes where's your mom he's been where's your mom's sister why is she accepting dates with this guy i think my mom's sister is one of those people that

just likes a lot of attention she's older okay a whole other issue a whole other issue yeah but i mean listen i think you just got to get to the point where you just have to accept who your stepdad is which is someone you can't trust thankfully well it hasn't affected you so much that you know you just got engaged i haven't heard you complain or say anything negative about your relationship. So it sounds like overall you trust him, you know, it hasn't affected your trust with men or, or things like that. Well, all, you know, and which it could have, right. You could have, you'd be like, I got a problem with my stepdad. Oh, by the way, my relationship, all my personal life is a mess. Everything seems to be in order, you know?

So that's a positive. Listen, you didn't have the quote unquote storybook life, whatever that means, that maybe some of your peers or the movies have had. I don't fucking know, but who really has? And so at the same time you're here, I don't know, you seem like you have a beautifully designed place. You're well-dressed. You seem like you are thriving in life you know so we all have things in our life that we wish were different or could change stop trying to make this work with him you know i'm not telling you to cut him off or whatever but you need to stop his having any expectations of him totally like treat him like a three-year-old

you know would you expect anything from a three-year-old. You know, would you expect anything from a three-year-old? No. You know, other than just like being there. If he wants to fucking call you and take you out or whatever, I just, there's nothing to trust him with. You know, nothing about what he says is trustworthy. You don't need a quote-unquote father figure in your life for you to be happy and fulfilled and for you to have a

successful life or marriage. There are other ways to get mentorship and have a support system. And at this point in your life, I think it's more important for you to just prioritize healthy relationships rather than the aesthetic of who those people are. Oh, it's like, well, I have a father figure, I have a mother figure, I have a best friend, I have this, I have that. You know what I'm saying? You're not like putting a roster of a support system together so that from the people on the outside looking in,

you could say, this looks normal. I don't know what normal is, right? I don't care who your friends are. I don't care who your mentors are. I don't care who your friends are. I don't care who your mentors are. I don't care who your support system is other than they are healthy and that they're people you can trust and they're people whose advice that you can look into. And just let this be a tough lesson learned. The tough lesson learned, and we've all had to learn it, is that you can't trust everyone.

There are nefarious people out there. There are people that you want to assume like a doctor or a mechanic or a financial advisor that, you know, because they're a financial advisor or because they're a doctor, you're going to get good information, but unfortunately you can't. And to protect yourself, you got to get second opinions of things. And if things feel off, listen to your body, listen to yourself, and maybe it won't be off, but like there's double check, you know, trust, but verify, you know, type of thing. So then would you recommend, because the issue that I'm running into is I completely agree with what you're saying. Like I've kind of come to the realization that now like my top priority

is what exists within my, the four walls of my home. You know what I mean? Like that is, that is what's, I'm putting my energy into what I find is happening is that I'm a very like, like I, I just, I feel, I feel bad for him. Like in so many, cause I, you feel bad for your stepdad. Yeah. Yeah. Like, cause let that go. He, I like, I actually, i can't even make this up so since everything his the most recent revelation is he's been fired from his job because he's a poor financial advisor and he's now um become a life coach and i'm like it's one of those things that i'm just like he's also not bad at his job he's a crook

yeah I don't think it's a lack of stupidity I think it's right so like every time that he says he's like oh I had no idea he knew yeah

so yeah I guess then what would you recommend he keeps consistently reaching out like probably every two months and my fiance now was like i'm prepared to get on the phone with him and say please stop contacting her because then i'll kind of go back into a lull of like i feel so guilty like he lost everything blah blah he didn't lose everything he gave everything up yeah that's true that's true they were his choices and he got multiple opportunities to rectify the problems and

every step of the way he kept almost to your utter shock and amazement kept doing nefarious shit yeah so you can pity him i wouldn't feel sorry for him i don't know if there's a difference but you know what i'm you know what i mean i wouldn't feel sorry from the extent that that's how he this that's how this guy gets by right you know he tells a story he's a storyteller that's what the only thing he's good at is being a good storyteller yeah yeah and his stories don't require the truth. You know, and don't let this

get to the point where it's causing stress between you and your partner because he's trying to protect you and you pity him and at some point your partner's gonna get

real frustrated, you know, and this guy's literally dating your fucking aunt. Stop feeling sorry for him. You have no reason to pity this guy or feel sorry for him. If you want to pity this guy and if you or feel

sorry for him if you want to pity him you can pity him sure but that's a him problem he's not stupid and his choices are his own and yeah as you've heard me say many times people can fuck up their lives because of their choices and he's making choices that are fucking up his life. And he's been doing it time and time again and he's not doing anything about it. It's not like he's like waking up and be like, I'm fucked up my life. I have to go get therapy. I have to actually work on myself.

I have to slow down. I got to stop hurting people that love me. No, he just keeps pretend, he keeps playing dumb and keep asking for people's forgiveness. And he's expecting that people have unlimited forgiveness for him. And he's expecting that people have unlimited forgiveness for him. And he's not willing to do anything about addressing the actual problems

that are causing his life to crumble. So he doesn't deserve any pity or he doesn't deserve any of your sorrow. And he's already literally costed you a ton. And you've heard me talk about be mindful of where you channel your energy, your pity, and you feeling sorry for your stepdad is taking away from you having quality time with your mom, quality time with your partner, quality time with yourself and quality time with anyone else. Because again, your energy is not infinite. Right. And when you focus your mental energy on him, it's, it's, it's, it's not going to other

more productive places. It's going to someone who is going to consume that energy and throw it away. Yeah. That's a, that's a really good way to look at it. I feel like I just need to get the balls to just say that. You don't need to say anything to him. You don't owe him anything. No, like just don't respond.

You don't owe him. Whatever you want to do, fine. But you don't need to work up the courage. That's more, you know, if it doesn't come naturally to you, then just walk away. You've given this guy ample opportunities. If your partner wants to do it

because it'll give him some sort of satisfaction, let him do it. Honestly, at this point, any interactions with him is just going to create more attachment to him. It's going to create more drama. This is not a guy who is going to sit down and listen and go, yeah, you're right. You've made a good point. No, he's not going to listen to you. And then he's going to find a way to victim himself and make excuses. And then again, tell a story to try to make you feel bad. It's going to be this kind of, you know, vicious cycle. Never ending. So like you, you keep acting like the next conversation you're going to have with him

is going to be some sort of wake up call that he's going to understand why you can no longer talk to him. And if I thought for a moment that something would register with this guy, then I would say, yeah, maybe have a conversation with him. But based on what you're telling me, he has proven time and time again, that is just wasted effort. So stop wasting your energy on him. Right. Well, that's good.

That's good then. Because I feel like, yeah, I'm in a good place. I feel ready to kind of leave it in the past like it was so messy that i'm just all you really need to do is accept that your life is pretty damn good and it's it doesn't require him being your life to feel fulfilled and that you you need to accept that there's no nothing about the way your life has played out or how he has played a role in your life is any sort of shortcoming in your life or a reason for you to feel less than or something you need to make up for.

You just need to look at what you do have and be grateful for it and think, oh, this is pretty fucking damn good. And yeah, it hasn't always been great. We've had some low moments in our family. Things have gotten weird, whatever. Every family has that. But instead of trying to make good, perfect, just really appreciate what you have and let them go. Right. Right. Oh, this has been so, it has been helpful.

Definitely. Cause I feel like even just chatting with you guys, like initially when I first called in, like that gave me a lot of just even peace in myself, like saying it all out loud. And so yeah, now that so much time has kind of passed, like it's been a year since the get-go of this i'm i'm just yeah all right well yeah i'm glad that's that's what we wanted to hear you need to be totally over it just let it go and stop definitely anytime any thought of like what is what does it say about me or anything and you just let that go it's you seem to be a well-rounded person you don't need a father figure in your life at this stage in your life to be happy or to have a support system you know right and you can feel sad for him without feeling like it's your obligation to then

do something as a result of it like you know i'm sure it's like very natural to like when you it comes up in your brain and it crosses your mind to feel like wow that's such a bummer like he's made so many mistakes you know he's in he's gotten himself in a really like isolating position and like you can acknowledge that feeling and have it for a second and then not have it like make it an agenda for you of like actions you now need to take because of it you can just kind of like let it go right totally totally it's yeah it's hard because i hate i the way i've been dealing with it is just by not responding um which is fine you can block yeah yeah yeah my partner he's like just let me get on the phone with him i'll just say please stop this isn't good for us wish you well but see you later yeah i mean if you really want to it's fine but again

as long as it doesn't create more drama exactly totally i think i'm just ready for it to you know just be like just book close chapter done so i don't know i feel like he almost needs to to see those words just be like please stop contacting me i don't know i don't think i don't think everything's gonna get through this guy but no yeah you wish for but I mean, he's a life coach now. Who knows? That's a him problem. And the clients. Yeah, and the clients.

Yeah. All right. Well, thank you. All right. Well, take care. Yes, you too. I appreciate all the advice. You guys have been amazing.

Anytime. Happy holidays. Yeah. All right. Yes, you too. All right. Bye-bye. Bye, guys.

Okie dokie. All right. Yes, you too. All right. Bye bye. Bye guys. Okie dokie. All right. Another writer in her before we get to our last update. We do. This is Jenna. She was originally on episode 666 and she wrote in because she was trying to figure out if her guy friend was flirting with her and they had a trip planned and she was like unsure if like she should make a move oh and like they had two separate beds uh-huh yes yes that's exactly it

um and your advice was basically like flirt slide this is the one i joked about just walk around naked in the hotel room yes yeah i remember what happened? Okay, so she writes, So we didn't go on the trip yet because some things happened after our call. Long story short, an event occurred that made us have to postpone the trip. Crying face emoji. But the good news is that we already rescheduled it and we leave in 10 days. Fingers crossed nothing else happens before then. Sending the IG message was definitely a good call. I'd say the flirting has escalated

on his end and he has been more of the initiator with texting and communication. Okay. He also sent me the new itinerary slash booking confirmation and I see he put us in a room with one bed instead of the room with two beds he booked before. Girl, you're

in. You are in. You're in. And so she said, I'll be sure to give you an update when i'm back oh my god i can't wait for her update i mean there's one bed this is so promising if you don't have i mean assuming you want to have sex yes um i i think go hard to the paint yeah do you think she should walk around naked no no i think i feel like well i guess no because it's very early on but i feel like i'm like i feel like you can desensitize your partner to nakedness what do you mean like i think there is value i think it was maybe just like my ex with covid we're like i i think it's great when you feel comfortable like changing in

front of your partner obviously but it did kind of I feel like I had a revelation that it's like if you just walk around naked all the time it's going to stop being exciting but this is different this is different but I still think I don't know I just feel like you should let it build I think there's already because like the foreplay has started sending someone a confirmation with like one bed and flirting and texting like i think just like really revel in the build yeah and tell us all about it yeah let's uh next update should be about the sex or any physical connection that would start yeah if you're gonna either call in or write in but we basically want a what are they like those porn novels smut yeah

like I want you to set the stage yeah we want erotica yeah yeah because I'm really curious like at what point the first move is going to be made yeah you know like it's going to be right when you walk in right when they walk in or do they go to bed a little drunk and someone's like

kind of like rubs up on them for the listener uh nick was sort of popping his hip i was doing that no i was doing the uh spongebob squirmy thing that ariana's new boyfriend did on stage yeah if you know if you know you know if you know you know all right let's get to our last caller hold on to your kilts dearies peacock original the traitors is back with a new season of strategy betrayal sabotage and murder this killer season features an all-new celebrity cast that vulture hailed as reality royalty living in a scottish castle for the ultimate murder mystery competition we're talking fierce competitors reality, and public figures battling it out for a whopping cash prize. This season's cutthroat missions are next level, just like whatever Alan Cumming pulls out of his brilliantly eccentric wardrobe. One thing is for

sure, these 21 players will do anything to avoid a plot in Alan's graveyard. Find out why critics and audiences alike are raving about the Emmy award-winning series. The New York Times is calling it a murder mystery with clothes to die for, and Vox adding that it should be your new reality TV obsession. We are certainly obsessed. Stream every episode of Traders now only on Peacock. Ladies and gentlemen. What are you doing?

What do you mean? Just keep it simple. I'm making the promo. Just keep it simple. Just say, hey, we're the Brav Bros. Two guys that talk about Bravo. Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, we're the Brav Bros. No.

Oh. Dude, stop with the voice. Just keep it simple. I've seen promos on TV, dude. This is how you get the fans engaged. This is how you get listeners. We're trying to get listeners here. If we just say, oh, we're two dudes that talk about Bravo,

people are going to get tired of it already. We need some oomph. All right, then fine. Let's try to do it with your voice. Bravo, bros. Good job. Welcome back, Greg. Hi, how's it going?

Good. Well, first time you called in, it was a zinger. It was a juicy one. Your dad broke up you and your, well, I don't know. Did he break up you and your girlfriend? Either way, he started dating your ex-girlfriend. Or someone you were interested in? Or a girl you had a crush on. Yeah, a girl I went on a couple dates with was seeing, but was interested in her, definitely. So Greg first appeared on episode 579, and then we got an update with him in episode 604.

79 and then we got an update with him in episode 604 uh just for our audience let's play a quick clip to kind of uh bring everyone up to speed of where we're at from the first two calls hey how's it going you guys good good good so last time we talked to you not too long ago you called up with a very vulnerable but juicy story from our end about your dad essentially stealing your girl yeah basically, basically. Yeah. Remind our audience, just kind of quickly paraphrase what happened and what was the advice that we told you and where are we now? Yeah. So I reached out to you guys. I was just looking for help to reach out to my dad who broke up my family by cheating on my mom with a woman that I was seeing.

I reached out to you guys and you guys gave me some great advice. And so essentially by the time you called really, this had happened a while ago. And so the advice that you were looking for, remind me if I'm wrong, uh, was that despite everything that happened, um,

you still, and understandably so wanted to have a relationship with your dad. Some time had passed. He's still dating the woman that he blew up the family, the family for Christmas. At's still dating the woman that he blew up the family for before Christmas. At the end of the day, we only have one mom and a one dad. And when it comes to family, as messy as it can be, you know, like the desire to have him in our lives is a strong one and a valid one. What was the advice that we gave you around that topic?

He told me to just set boundaries with him and set boundaries of, I really don't care to hear about her. I just ask that you meet me where I'm at. And we have a relationship that's focused on us and set the boundary of, I don't really want to hear what you guys are doing. I don't really want to know about your life. All I ask is that you just focus on having a relationship with me. And then you also mentioned to just kind of, you know, accept it, accept it for what it is. And we can't control what our parents do. And yeah, that's something that's really helped me. It's just accepting the choices my dad's made and understanding that those aren't my choices. So did you reach out to pops?

Yeah. After we spoke, I took a week. I just collected my thoughts, really just thought over everything. And I shot him a text. I was like, Hey, this is out of the blue. I love you. You're my dad. I do want to have a working relationship with you. And whenever you're free, I'd love to get together and just talk and catch up and see... Just talk about having a relationship. And he texted me back the next morning and we went back and forth a little bit, just catching up a little bit about life. And then we actually spoke yesterday. So the conversation is fairly fresh.

I was just upfront with him. And I started the conversation by just telling him. I was like, Hey, the last year, your actions really did hurt me. It did affect me. It affected my life. And then I transitioned just being thankful. I was like, I thanked him for that. And I mentioned all the work I've put in and how far I've come. And then yeah, I just got to setting boundaries. I told him, I was like, I'm gonna need you to sack up and man up. And I'm gonna need you to just focus on having a relationship with me. And I don't want to have you talk to me about her. I'm not your buddy in that department. And then I also set the boundary because he he asked about my mom and how she was doing I was like you know like it's another boundary I'm gonna say like you don't

get to ask like how my mom is doing like I I just to me that seems inappropriate so I definitely I said a lot of badgers with him and he was very receptive to it he was like yeah no I understand and he kept apologizing and there was one point in the conversation like after he apologized for like the the 10th time I was like you know, I do challenge you to kind of look inward and figure out like why you made the choice that you did. But also to that end, you could just say, listen, thank you for the apology. You don't need to apologize. What I need you to do is just respect what I'm asking and be a dad and respect my boundaries. I don't need you to keep saying I'm sorry.

I just need you to make things right, given the framework that we're operating in, so to speak, I'm willing to accept that this is your choice. You know, I'm willing to have a relation with you despite the situation. I just need you to respect what I'm asking and we'll be okay. What did he say about when you, when you challenged him? Uh, he was like, you know, like, that's a really good point. He was like, I feel like I should go to therapy and kind of talk through like, why did the things I did? And I was just kind of, I just encouraged him. I was like, yeah, you know, I think looking inward and going to therapy and really like getting through everything. And I think that would really benefit you. And he was like, yeah, you know, maybe that's

something I will look into. So he was very receptive. Like when I challenged him on it. Keep challenging him, you know, and if nothing else, I got, I got to imagine hearing from his son do the difficult things like prioritizing their mental health and doing this. And you can even challenge like, well, you're the one who made these choices and I'm not trying to, you know, bring up old wounds, but you know, if I can go ahead and do the vulnerable thing, like get therapy and realize that I need some help and I need to not let my struggles in life or my feelings, he, I promise you, he, he was able to convince himself why doing what he did was his only option. Otherwise he wouldn't have done it. Right.

Or why he deserved to do it or yada, yada, yada. And that's something I just got annoyed the amount of times he was apologizing. Like you can say you're sorry, but like how are your actions going to back that up? I think you reaching out is, was a big was a big deal for yourself and for him. And I'm sure, I bet you impressed him. And just keep loving him and keep challenging him. We just always have to find that balance of when we want to challenge someone, we have to make sure we, you know, sandwich them with love.

How are you feeling about this? Like, do you feel, yeah, where's your kind of heart around this topic? You know, I feel good. about this like do you feel yeah where's your kind of heart around this topic you know i feel i feel good i mean you know after the conversation yesterday i was like okay like i do feel like we're on a good path there was one thing though he he asked me he was like do you see yourself like you know if her and i continue to date do you think you could get to a place where you could like be around us and i just looked at him and i was like, fuck no. Also, I would say, hey, dad, maybe I'm not getting through to you. Even if that were possible, is this the conversation that's really appropriate to ask?

I'm trying to start a relationship here. And part of my requirements for this relationship is to respect this boundary. And you're asking me if I can consider in the future, not, I mean, let's just, I don't know, dad, but let's just assume going forward. No, but also like, I need you to make me feel like I'm a fucking priority. And you asking me this question just shows me that the end of the day, you're still worrying about you and how this affects you yeah and that's you know after we spoke i talked to my counselor and she was just like your guys's relationship will be a new normal like you got to get over the like how your guys

relationship was like what was in the past and you guys are gonna have a new norm yeah we do this thing where it's just like when someone you know hurts us or you know it's like then we we talk about boundaries like i need this boundary whatever and i think somewhere in our subconscious we think that like us having boundaries with people is not loving them enough or not trusting them enough or or things like that and so then we take away the boundaries that we have that we think are protecting ourselves as a way as a way to show them our loyalty and love and trust for them, which is only leads us to more disappointment in the future. So kind of, I think to your counselor's point is when things

get good with your dad, that's not a reason to like drop the boundary that got you to the place that you wanted to be, you know? And we weirdly think that, oh, now we're here. We no longer need these boundaries. It's like, no, it's the boundaries that got you to this place. Yeah, absolutely. That's, yeah, that's so true. That's a, that's a good point. But yeah, it was, you know, it was a good conversation. I left feeling, I mean, I felt great. Amanda, you know, brought up when we first talked about just, you know, letting my friends just, you know, if I need them to support me during difficult times, like to just let them do that. So I reached out to my buddy prior to meeting with him and I was just like, Hey, this is what I'm doing. He was great. He was like, Yeah, I love you. I support you. If you need anything throughout this, I'm always a phone call away. I'm here to support you

if you need to just talk about it or practice what you're gonna say to him. So that was another great piece of advice. So thank you for that. All right, buddy. Thank you very much for the update. Please continue to update us on any progress when it comes to the relationship of your father or anything else. We appreciate it. And yeah, congratulations on taking this very big step in your life. And is this only going to lead to better things? Yeah. No, I'm really excited for my future. And I definitely think this is going to help me. I think just having this tough conversation is going to benefit me as I start to build my life and get into relationships and, you know, and I'm excited to be a husband and a father. And I know this experience is definitely

going to help me. So thank you guys for all your help and your guidance. And I genuinely, genuinely appreciate it. I appreciate it as well. All right. Thanks, buddy. Anyway. Uh, so where are we now? now? Things are still going well with my dad. We're still focused on getting to know each other. Not get to know each other, but still kind of catching up on the time that we made. Yeah. Or we lost. So we text about once a week.

Dating her? Yeah. We went to a baseball game in the summer, and he showed me photos of... He was talking about his dog, and you could clearly see her in the background. I was like, sick. Didn't really care to see that. So they're still dating, but he is making the conscious effort to stay connected, make me feel like a priority.

On my birthday, he texted me, happy birthday. I just switched jobs and had a big licensing exam that I was nervous about. And he remembered the test date, texted me good luck and was there to celebrate with me. So yeah, things have been going well. I did have to check him a couple weeks ago. I just texted him. I was like, Hey, I'm just trying to meet up with you. I just want to see you. And he just said, he's back in school and working full time. And he was just like, I'm busy and all that stuff. And I was like, I get you're busy i'm also busy too i work an eight to five i have i have a life so it was one of those things where i had to just set that like hey i just want to see you i want you to just make me feel like a priority in your life and he's done

a decent job of that yeah no he he definitely he was like you know thank you for communicating that with me and he manned up he was like i'm know, thank you for communicating that with me. And he manned up, he was like, I'm sorry. Like, and so we saw each other, I think that weekend. And so, yeah, we're still just still taking the time to just, you know, communicate with one another and meet with each other and, and just, yeah, be in each other's lives. How's your relationship with mom? I think if I remember correctly, that was also a bit contentious. She had her own struggles with kind of where she was at in her life and her own happiness, maybe certainly as a result of your dad's decisions and things like that.

But how's that going? Things with mom are going well. After we spoke, our conversation really opened my eyes. And it was one of those things where I was just talking just internally with myself. And I was like, if I can give grace for my dad, I need to give that same grace to my mom. And our parents are imperfect people. And I just kind of thought like our parents are doing life for the first time as well, too. Like they're, they're, they're doing it, doing it for the first time too. And they're, they're making mistakes just like I am. So I was like, if I can give, if I can give dad grace, I need to prioritize giving my mom some grace and just meeting her where she's

at. That's great. Yeah. I love that. I love it. So much about, I've learned that so much about like, just my personal key to happiness is being able to, I don't know, process disappointment, you know? Yeah. And when things happen in my life i guess good and bad to recognize that i'm i am not the main character necessarily in everyone else's life you know because i feel like the many times i've been the most miserable is when i felt like how could this

happen to me and then that was And then that was the starting point of how I looked at every situation. And so it was very easy for me to be angry at people, to hold onto my anger, to feel like the victim. It just was a lot of negative energy. That's an easy way to get disappointed by just thinking that everyone is on this earth to make your movie. And I think that's our default. Because it is.

It is our life. It is our story. And we see life through our story, you know, and the more often I can kind of get out of that mindset and realize that, like you said, like life has happened to everyone and everyone we're interacting with is imperfect. And life is really just about finding that balance between like, who do we give second and third chances to, you know, and why, you know, family, obviously you're a little bit more motivated to like give them grace because it's family. You only have one family. And then with certain family members, it's like, Hey, they'll always be in your life because they're family and you love them, but you keep maybe them at arm's length because

despite them being family, maybe you don't totally trust them or just trust their ability to make healthy decisions for themselves and everyone in their kind of orbit kind of feels that, you know, and then with friends or partners, it's kind of figuring out, all right, well, you made a mistake, but how accountable are you holding yourself for this mistake? And what are you working on? And what are you trying to do to fix this? And how are you making it safe for me to forgive you, to trust you and things like that? But, you know, when I was younger, it was just, how could you do this to me? And, you know, when you're starting from that place, it's really hard to get over things, to process things. And then you're just expecting

everyone who interacts with you to meet your expectations, to meet your demands, and it's hard not to get super frustrated and super disappointed with people. Yeah, no, that's perfectly said. And yeah, there was a lot of truth you just said. I think with everything that happened, you were talking about this main character vibe. And I definitely think after everything happened, I tried to... Or not tried to, I definitely... My mindset was like, I took it personal. You find those ways to take it personal. And I would use that to motivate me in certain ways. And then it took me a while to be able to take a step back and be like, Hey, this happened. It sucked. But in our first call, like you mentioned, it's going to make

me as a parent and as a partner, it's going to make me not want to do any of those things that my parents have done. Yeah. So that was a great lesson that I learned from, from just speaking with you and just kind of experiencing all of this. Oh, I love that. That's great. Yeah. And do you have any updates from your own dating life?

Yeah. Yeah. Nick, I got, I got, I got a, I got a situation. I gotta, I need your, your help on. Is it a situation shit? If you don't mind. Yeah, no. It's.

Your dad doesn't have a crush on her. Sorry. No, I know. I made sure I was like, I'm not telling my dad about this girl. Cause he's gonna, he's gonna miss your steal your girl part two. Uh,

he's going to run it back. Uh, but no, there's a girl met on, met on a dating app. Uh, she was a traveler. It's here in my hometown.

Uh, actually I use the line from your book uh she liked one of my photos and i was like hey i just want to say running into you on here has made my day and i truly hope you're enjoying yours and like she thought that was the sweetest most clever thing and i was like nick's helping us guys out so we started talking in july it kind of fizzled out she was you know new here to spokane as a travel nurse had had a hectic schedule i was you know a month removed from a relationship. So I'm not in the best headspace to date. So it fizzled out. We reconnected in

October. It was one of those things where I messaged her. I was like, hey, I haven't been able to stop thinking about you. I couldn't live with myself if I didn't get the chance to at least take you out and go on a date with you. So we went out about 3 weeks ago and have been seeing each other for the last 3 weeks she is leaving actually left this morning for home and for a new nursing contract uh back in her in her hometown which is on the opposite side of the state uh where i'm at so we kind of we had the talk last week and it's i know it's left me feeling just kind of a lot of uh just not a lot of clarity we both agree that we like each other we both agree that we want to continue continue things as they are. What does that mean?

Yeah. And that's where I was kind of confused. I'm assuming that as things are, the texting, the FaceTiming, but also we're doing distance now. She's already moved? Yeah. She just drove home this morning. This morning. Okay. So you're not together. I would say the conversation we had, it was we both like each other. We want to keep things going as is

and keep pursuing this and seeing where it goes. But you don't know what as is means? No, and that's something that's created a lot of anxiety for me because I'm like, I just need a game plan of what's going on or how can we better stay connected. You've been dating for three weeks yeah three weeks yeah super new how many dates did you go on we've been on about seven or eight dates have you hooked up uh she's a virgin so i really wanted to respect that but we did fool

around and do other things how old is she she's 26 now i'm 25 okay and is her virginity like religious purposes no it's just she hasn't found somebody that she thinks is is worth it yet okay well those ones are bugaboos if it's not religious reasons that means they are really they they got some, I don't know, well, they certainly have some ideas around what sex should be and they have a lot of expectations. I'm not trying to suggest if you're a 26-year-old virgin, there's something wrong with you at all. But if you're at this day and age, 26- old virgin, and you just are a virgin because you haven't found someone that it's, you know, you've decided is worthy of having sex with you, then you have some pretty intense, I guess, personal boundaries around who's, you know, sex. And I would just be curious, it'd be important for you to find out what those are you know yeah so just kind of take it slow with her i don't know yeah across the board

let's forget that she's a virgin for now because i kind of went off you know but you know it sounds like you know that you're interested in getting to know her more that you like her yeah and i communicated i'm getting the sense that if she was like hey like i don't know like i don't know where Sounds like you know that you're interested in getting to know her more, that you like her. Yeah, and I communicated that with her. I'm getting the sense that if she was like, hey, I don't know where this is going, but I really just want to focus on you and I don't want to date anyone else, that you would like her to say that and you would agree to stop dating anyone else for the time being while you two focus on getting to know each other? Yeah. So why don't you just tell her that? know each other yeah so why don't you just tell her that uh i did so we had when we had just the talk of what this is i told her i was like i'm really interested in you i want to keep getting to know you and know like more about you and who make like like why you why you're the way you are

and all that stuff uh i was like i don't plan on seeing anybody else and she i think she struggles with communicating that like how she feels. And she was just kind of, you know, just like, yeah, I'm in the same boat and like, just kind of kept saying, yeah, I'm in the same boat or same, or I definitely think we're on the same page. So that was frustrating for me. Uh, cause I just like, I'm communicating, I'm being vulnerable. I'm expressing what I want, but I'm getting not as much in return. But she did say she's in the same boat. Yeah. So if, if you found out she went on a date with another guy three weeks from now, do you feel like you have the right to be frustrated or upset with her? I believe so.

And would you feel comfortable saying, hey, I'm just a little confused. Like, I thought we weren't dating other people. Yeah, I believe so. Just from the conversation we had. And, you know, last week I met her sister. And to me me if i were to introduce somebody to my sibling i think i would that means a lot so i wouldn't take that yeah but it might not mean a lot to her so who knows here if i were you if i were if i were you

i would just stop thinking about her actions and do what you do it feels right whatever you want to do with her you know in terms of reaching out, communicating. But pay attention the next two weeks how she responds to how you communicate with her. Take inventory of the fact that, yeah, I guess it was me kind of reaching out every fucking time. Or does she reach out to you? Does she check in with you? Does she make you feel like she misses you? It doesn't sound like she's moving that far away.

No, she's moving to the opposite side of the state. How far of a drive is that? It'd be about a four, four and a half hour drive, depending on the weather. Not terrible, but clearly, if you guys were interested in each other, in a couple of weeks, one person can drive to see the other person.

Maybe she moved. Maybe you could drive to see the other person. Maybe she can, she moved. Maybe you could drive to see her. I'd love to come see you. See what she says. Like you're going to find out pretty quickly if she is excited about getting to know you better. And right now that's the thing. It's like, she's agreed to everything you've said, but you have no idea if she's excited about it. And it sounds like you don't feel her excitement. And so don't get more than you're receiving, but for the short period of time, just do what you want in terms of how you think you should prioritize getting to know her. And don't kind of overthink, well, is she doing this? And in like two weeks from now, check in with yourself, review the text messages, think

about your conversations and kind of ask yourself, is she, am I showing way more enthusiasm about getting to know her than she's making me feel about getting to know me? And if you're still confused, maybe pull back a little bit. Just say, hey, I'm just kind of getting the sense that maybe you're not as into this as I am. And maybe you could just say something like that. Just slowly pull back. Don't reach out to her as much. Maybe then she'll pick it up. But you have to let her do her part. And because she's not a bad communicator and you're a good communicator, you can't over communicate for the both of you and give her the opportunity kind of giving you these one-word

answers you you you have to require more from her because communication big part of our relationship so before you jump into a relationship like people will say like oh well they're just a bad communicator as if that's some sort of acceptable condition like an affliction yeah this is whatever but they don't have to work on it it's just who they are like like they're bad at closing cupboard doors but you can date someone who doesn't close cupboard doors you can't date someone who doesn't communicate with you and you constantly feel confused so you over talk and they just kind of give you these one word answers where you don't know if they're actually agreeing with you or they're just being agreeable so that's about all that's valid so that's great for the next two

weeks just do your thing and then take inventory about what did that look like how did that make you feel you know do you feel like you're getting the same effort that you're putting in and then either communicate that or just pull back. Yeah. And I'll be seeing her in three weeks. I'm going over kind of her area for a basketball game. So I told her, I was like, Hey, I'm coming over for like,

if you want to meet up, I would love to take you out to dinner and get to see you and see, and I'm just, and maybe, but if I were you right now, maybe in the next couple of days, just get busy doing other things. Be busy.

Give her the impression that you're busy. Yeah. You're sad, but like, you right now maybe in the next couple days just get busy doing other things be busy okay give her the impression that you're busy yeah you're sad but like don't give her the impression that you're sitting there waiting around like don't you know freak her out maybe she moves at a slower pace than you move and it has only been three weeks and sometimes people can like if she's moving a little slower and you move faster and you're more sure than she is that like maybe your intensity could scare her off so you're not going to figure out whether she's your person in the next two weeks there's nothing you can do about her moving you're going to talk let her maybe do some reaching out stay busy act busy communicate that you are busy don't be a dick and don't be confusing but just

don't be fucking texting her throughout the day and don't freak out because she's not texting you back you know and don't like analyze every interaction in real time just chill out for two weeks check in and then see how you feel then yeah i i can do that and yeah i think when i see her here in three weeks i think i can also do a check-in of like you know how i know on your podcast you can talk about how you physically feel you know being with people and just you know if in three weeks when you're about to go see her you have you're like you feel like this weekend's about getting a lot of clarity well that should tell you something

yeah or hopefully hopefully it's more like hey we're gonna have a lot of fun and we'll get to know each other this weekend but I'm just more I'm just excited to see you and you feel like she's excited to see you before you go see her like the day before like how do i feel about this whole thing you know but don't analyze it every goddamn day between now and

then yeah i know i'm already starting to do that and i'm already like fuck this like i'm already thinking about like i won't see her for three months or uh when she starts her new nursing contract and i'm just driving myself crazy all you know is that you met a nice girl who's a virgin. You don't really know why. And you've had a couple of nice dates. You fool around a little bit. So much you don't know about this person. There is no reason to become obsessed or head over heels or think that you

lost out on something great if it doesn't work out. Definitely. Yeah. That's perfectly said. And I needed to hear that. So thank you for that. No problem. All right, man. Yeah, that's perfectly said. And I needed to hear that. So thank you for that. No problem. All right, man.

Well, really appreciate the update. Would love to know how things play out with her. So keep us posted. Yeah, no, I'm very invested. Yeah, I'm very invested in her. And I'm really, yeah, I'm going to take your advice

and run with it. And hopefully things go well and things go in my favor. But yeah, thank you for everything. And I appreciate your guys' time. Anytime, bud. Absolutely. Congratulations on the kid

and happy holidays to you guys thank you and happy holidays to you thank you guys take care bye guys well thank you for listening everybody hope you enjoyed those updates we appreciate giving them to you don't forget to send in those

questions at ask Nick at the file files dot com and if you've ever been on our show and you have an update to share please write us in and let us know him to you. Don't forget to send in those questions at snick at thevilefiles.com. And if you've ever been on our show and you have an update to share, please write us in and let us know. As always, there's so many more updates available to you behind Vile Files Plus. So if you're itching for more after hearing these updates, go to vilefiles.com, subscribe. It's free to sign up. You get a seven day free trial. Now is as good a time as any. Thanks for listening. We'll see you back on Monday. Bye.