The Viall Files - E678 Ask Nick - My Husband Loves Deer More Than Me

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Starting point is 00:00:43 What's going on everybody welcome back to another riveting episode of the vile files ask nick edition i'm your host nick joined by the household of amanda ellie is in saint paul eating her girl lunch is it girl food or what is not only a girl dinner, but it's like a, one of the Natalie plates or Tiffany plates. What's her name on Tik TOK where she does like all the different sauces. No, but it's like, she does a lot with like cottage cheese and mustard.

Starting point is 00:01:17 Oh, and then she dips like her veggies in it. And it's just like a bunch of random things on a plate. And that's what I'm eating today. It's like a charcuterie an unhinged charcuterie Yeah Can someone explain cottage cheese?

Starting point is 00:01:32 I've been in a big cottage cheese phase. I feel like I could enter my era. Are you lactose intolerant? Yeah, wasn't breastfed. Loving cottage cheese. Does that not have lactose? I'm sorry, am I the only one who doesn't understand

Starting point is 00:01:46 how those statements are connected? Like, I feel like we just got several different things. It was like, breastfeeding,

Starting point is 00:01:52 cottage cheese, lactose intolerance. But like, cottage cheese has lactose in it, does it not? Yes. I just like,

Starting point is 00:02:00 I feel like you tell your body what to do. Yeah, totally. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not going to yuck your yum, Allie. Thank you.

Starting point is 00:02:06 Allie, I miss you. It was so nice. Obviously, people noticed you were in studio last week. And I have a reveal, which is that after I went to Allie's house to just hang out while she was packing up the apartment, et cetera, I came out and my car got hit. I was the victim of a hit and run. In my neighborhood? In your, yeah.

Starting point is 00:02:30 And I was waiting to tell you on it. I'm so sorry. No, no, it's not your fault at all. It's not your fault. How fucked up is your car? It's really dented. And it's like, it's not the first scratch. Cause it's like, I feel like when I moved to LA,

Starting point is 00:02:42 like within kind of like the first six months, like I had like a parking garage bought from hell, etc. Like, you know, you get some. Yeah, you get a few initial ones. But this was like real. Like you can tell that it's like some fucking asshole was trying to make a 12 point turn on a really narrow street and just like hit my car hard. And I'm so sad. I'm so sorry. But that's that was my that was my big reveal. Have you ever been in a hit and run before?

Starting point is 00:03:10 No. Allie has. She's nodding. Give it to us. I got sideswiped so badly when I was going to the nail salon that Natalie recommended and I was pissed.

Starting point is 00:03:21 I'm here in North Hollywood. And they took off? Oh yeah, I came out from getting my nails done. And it was like a bad swipe. I mean, in college, my roommate, he got in, I think, a car accident. And he loved his car. I don't know why. It was a totally fine car.

Starting point is 00:03:39 But for him, it was a big deal back, you know, college, whatever. Got it fixed. Two days days later we walk outside and he was street parking oh we walk outside and his car is demolished because someone like t-boned it overnight and you could tell that they were like it was like clearly a drunk driver because his car was got the biggest impact it was demolished but like the cars leading up to it like their like their rearview mirror you know their side mirror whatever was like off and there was like scrapes against cars leading up to his but his was destroyed and it was right after it got fixed damn so damn this is a psa if you see a hit and run leave it out because like i've seen hit and runs and i

Starting point is 00:04:26 like i will i will take a picture of the license plate and then go back and like leave a note because i'm like good for you not on my watch because it's like so if you see a hit and run you gotta help people out because it's like it sucks you just walk out leave your information as well yeah so that you can be a witness yeah because i'm like for insurance and i'm like hey text me if you have any questions dude but that's the thing like with insurance i tried to submit mine after it happened which they're like fine but i have a thousand dollar deductible and i'm like i don't want to pay a thousand dollars for a 13 year old car yeah yeah and it's just it's just demoralizing ever well because like the deductible of it all like you're just

Starting point is 00:05:05 like damn i did you really only give car insurance really just to protect you against if you were to hit someone or the liability of it or if your car gets fucking totaled but like other than that it really doesn't behoove you to file a claim for a fender bender right and i think it's it's hard for morale because i feel like in la there's so so much car culture. And I've never been someone who really admires nice cars. But I don't know. There's just a certain level of presentability that I would love to have that it's bad for morale when you show up with a busted car. It just makes me feel like a garbage woman. It's bad for morale. I went at my car a year after the fact to try to touch it up because of that scrape. And I will say that the guy who parks behind me is like some

Starting point is 00:05:51 sort of medical professional, this older Eastern European man. And he came down to the parking garage and he was like, what are you doing? Like, this is never going to work. And then he came back from the grocery store and he was like, are you makeup artist this looks beautiful and i was like i did it oh i thought you were gonna say he helped you but then i was like no no no we're not that close i had oh my god it was so nice that guy i was hooking up with in la i did not he taught me how to like fix scratches like i got the wax i got the oh what is it it's like alcoholic It's like acetone, I think. Acetone, I'm pretty sure. I have it in my car now.

Starting point is 00:06:28 But it was like, it was one of the nicest things ever. Like he was like, I'm fixing the scratches. Like one time in passing, I think he was probably getting in my car and I was like really self-conscious about it. So I was like, oh yeah, sorry, there's a tiny scratch, et cetera. And then he helped me fix it. The nicer thing was after the fact, like a year later, I hit him up him up and was like hey can you remind me what the name of this thing was he sent me like a video like detailing how to do a like step-by-step process shout out to this man he is doing the lord's work i needed the help and i think that's why i want to be that's my being friends with

Starting point is 00:07:00 exes i think i've just had exes be very crucial. So that they can help you fix your car? Although it's a hookup so it doesn't count as like an ex. I haven't touched a man in so long. You were friendly, not friends. Yeah, I guess. I guess, yeah, yeah. You reached out to him having not had any contact with him for a while. But I think the big thing is that

Starting point is 00:07:20 like life's too short. I think the big indictment on like being friends with an ex was like my friends would be like, bitch, text me back. No, but like, no, I'm agreeing with you though by saying like, you're right.

Starting point is 00:07:31 There is a difference between being friendly and being a friend. And like it is like the level of constant maintenance of a friendship where it would just be inappropriate for me to be friends with an ex

Starting point is 00:07:39 because then my friends on the East Coast would be like, excuse me, ma'am. Like we know you're busy. Don't make time for this person. I'd be like, you're so right. There you go. Wait, Ali, you said I haven't been touched by a man. I want to go back to that. I said I haven't. I guess either way. It would be weird if it was only one way. You were touching men.

Starting point is 00:08:02 It's been a minute. Now that you're back in Minnesotanesota are you on any kind of dating apps like how is how's the dating landscape looking so far the people are more attractive but they don't send the first message like i have several matches on hinge and they have not sent the first message is that and they do they have to no but i just like when they do also i'm afraid to go on a date here and they're like oh like where do you live and i'll be like my parents basement i think covid really did a great job of kind of destigmatizing living at home like but my parents also were saying they were like this is temporary like you're it's not like you're like oh i've been

Starting point is 00:08:44 there for five years. Is this sexist? I feel like people, the society judges women less than they judge men for living at home. Or do you feel differently? I feel like either way, like I've been on dates with people who still live with their parents and have never not lived with their parents. And I wonder, like, how compatible we would be as partners, because I I'm like you don't do your own laundry how would we build a life together like yeah there's a certain kind of like personal ambition to living alone like personal like drive for independence that if someone doesn't have it it's not like necessarily bad it's just like different also you have a story like I just moved back from LA it's a little different like three years from now a little tougher to explain

Starting point is 00:09:23 that one but yeah I just moved back I'm just like shack it up with my mom and dad for a period of time. sure I found the right spot. Like you make your choices carefully. So I really don't think Ali, everything about you screams. I have my shit together. Like I really wouldn't worry about people going on a date and be like, I don't know this girl. I'm wearing a juicy couture sweatsuit that I got when I was 16. So God bless. I did want to put out there that I feel like a lot of crazy shit happens at company holiday parties. I read some article weeks ago about how a Taco Bell employee was alleging that the manager was having sex with his wife in front of everyone at the company Christmas party at that franchise location. She was like, I feel really uncomfortable and I'm suing.

Starting point is 00:10:23 And so maybe not to that extreme so she sued taco bell because she's got a horny manager yeah and i i guess like i i guess everybody was really drunk it seems like one big hr nightmare this christmas i'm not condoning fucking your wife in front of your employees i'm just saying why is she suing taco bell that just seems like a money grab i think in the article it was talking about how like she reported it they like fired him but then someone like smashed her window or like there was like retaliation and she didn't feel safe she she fired they fired the manager after she reported it but like they didn't protect her from all the retaliation like she came forward and was like this was unacceptable and they just like they fired him but they didn't do anything

Starting point is 00:11:03 else to make sure that like what were they supposed to do i think maybe respond when someone smashed her window how did they have proof that it was him well it was just like i don't i i i can't get into like the litigation of it all because i just don't know that much about it are they supposed to like hire a security detail i think there's like ways that you can kind of like like damages you know of like maybe i just don't want this woman coming between me and my tacos and if she wins a big case against you think that taco bell's gonna go but i'm not one for frivolous lawsuits i'm just not yeah yeah you know i you are well no i just i like what got me through my legal studies major is I was like

Starting point is 00:11:46 one day I'm gonna sue uber for all that they've wronged me uber pool was a twisted product you've been wronged by uber okay genuine question no because like I've always had positive experiences with uber pool but I started using uber pool before people caught on that it was like efficient because sometimes it was a great deal because it was just like it used to only be a great deal i would just ride by myself every once in a while i'd pick some up and this was in like the height of bachelor i got pissed because on multiple occasions uber pool was you know how they'll give you a they'll give you your eta and then you'll the latest possible arrival on multiple occasions i have been in uber pools that are so fucking delayed like because they picked a bad route to start with and we've already picked up

Starting point is 00:12:29 someone who it didn't make sense. We are already past the latest possible arrival time and they have gone out of the way to pick up another person. And I think legally you should not be allowed to use that kind of language and terminology if you are then going to have an algorithm that prioritizes making more money over that. What language? What? What language? Like the language of latest possible arrival time. I don't think you should be allowed to make that statement if you are going to then intentionally

Starting point is 00:12:53 prior. This is not like, oh, we had a ton of traffic and now it's later than that. This is them intentionally. We are already after the quote latest possible arrival time and they're intentionally prioritizing making more money over delivering on a so-called promise that they have and and what uh what what would you sue for in this particular case what do you think i just i'm big on consumer rights i i'm well also their customer service bot like i've had to waste so much time with bots where they expect people to give up and i don't tend to give up in these scenarios because it's like I think there's

Starting point is 00:13:25 a really big difference between being a Karen which is a huge issue like I feel like being a Karen is when you're like taking out all of your frustrations probably being unreasonable on an employee like that is so different than when you're like I'm calling bullshit on this big big company and I'm going to be polite to the people I'm talking to, but like unrelenting in my desire to have this escalated. I'd rather have the solution be to the, you know, cause you know, air Canada,

Starting point is 00:13:52 obviously that was frustrated, but I, I want the solution to the big, bad corporations to be more competition within these businesses. I don't want it to be frivolous lawsuits. I think in the rise of AI, I think there needs to be some kind of consumer protection of when you have to take so much time out of your life.

Starting point is 00:14:14 For example, when an airline loses your bag. I'm not talking about stuff where it's kind of like there's both sides of the story about how one person, the customer might feel might feel wronged. The company might be like, nope, we were totally within our right. I'm talking about situations where they like blatantly do something that like causes you a huge inconvenience. And then in order to have it rectified, you have to waste so much of your time. Like I think companies need to place some kind of consequence if you do not have available customer service.

Starting point is 00:14:43 How consequence to be them caring about losing your business that honestly really should be the only consequence but i'm a capitalist i mean because the alternative is people you know compensation suing you know the value of your time versus other people's time you know like that's messy just earn my business or pay the consequences of me having an option. The problem is the small business arena is harder and harder to exist. But I think it's also about saying even that one incident is unacceptable. Have you ever had a kerfuffle with an airline?

Starting point is 00:15:17 Sometimes it's like you're talking about something that's like $1,000. I had a huge issue when I was supposed to be a bridesmaid at my best friend's wedding in Australia in June of 2020 or July of 2020. And United Airline wasn't canceling the flight, even though it was illegal for non-nationals to enter the country. And it was just like that was an example of a situation where it was a really big headache. And like I had to either take a credit like they were basically like trying to trick me into only taking flight credit and not refunding me for a flight. And it's a complicated situation. My point, I'm not saying that I... Even though I do think I'm right and I wasn't doing anything crazy. My point is just that

Starting point is 00:15:55 one $1,000 incident, people need to invest whatever time it takes to rectify that. And sometimes they will disrespect your time. They will make you wait on hold for 45 minutes only to put you on hold for another 60. And there just need to be some kind of boundaries about the means of recourse consumers have to like... Slippery slope. I don't know. Do we have a writer in her?

Starting point is 00:16:21 We sure do. All right, let's get to it. I'm sorry to the people who did not want to come to this TED Talk. But I feel like maybe people will agree. Let me know. Okay. So the person who wrote in writes, My name is Jay.

Starting point is 00:16:36 I'm 34 years old. I've been listening to your podcast for a while, and I thought I just had to write in regarding an incident that happened this past weekend that I'm pretty upset about. This weekend, we had our gender reveal party for our second child. My partner and I were not married yet, but have been engaged for three years and together for almost six. Due to babies, etc., we just never planned our wedding and it wasn't on the top of our to-do list. We have always talked about doing a small wedding or something non-traditional, including just our family members and a few friends. So long story short, we decided to turn our gender reveal party into a surprise wedding. Fun, right? It really was fun. Everyone was so surprised. We rented a

Starting point is 00:17:15 bigger house for everyone to stay. And once everyone arrived, we made the announcement that we were going to be getting married. To top it all off, my father officiated the wedding and everyone was even more surprised by that. All of that was great. But then after a dress malfunction and finally tying the knot, the party per se got started. I am four months pregnant and obviously couldn't partake in drinking or anything, but had fun with the guests till a decent hour. I got everyone out that wasn't staying. My now husband and my brother decided to keep the party going in the basement of this place we were staying, which is fine for a little while. But then they were being so loud that my other son was sleeping and we had to tell

Starting point is 00:17:54 him to shut it down at 1 a.m. He still didn't want to come and be with me on our wedding night and then decided to leave the house with his brother to go off partying, God knows where, until 4 a.m. with no phone and no way to reach him. To say the least, I'm pissed about it. I think it's very upsetting that he decided to go on our wedding slash gender reveal night. But to keep the peace and good memories of the day, I haven't, quote, gone off, end quote, on him about it. I told him that what he did was hurtful and for what reasons, and I hope he makes it up to me. To be honest, I don't think he will. It's been a couple of days now and he hasn't even given me an apology and doesn't think he did anything wrong. He said he was just celebrating and having

Starting point is 00:18:32 fun, but not with me. I've told him now how I feel about it and that now my memory of the night is kind of ruined. His response is defensive and rude and I feel hurt. I don't want to keep dwelling on this and I really hate having to tell him to do something like make it up to me when I think he should just be doing that on his own. Am I overreacting for being upset about this? Should I just let it go and hope that he makes it up to me in some way? It's been in the back of my mind since it happened and it's just making me upset. But at the end of the day, what's done is done, right? This is a mediation call. They need to both call in. Please call in, Jay. Jay and partner, please call in. this is a mediation call they need to both call in please call in jay jay and partner please call in this is a perfect mediation opportunity of course she's not wrong for

Starting point is 00:19:12 feeling this way she you know she has the right to feel however she wants and i don't think she's handled it the best way with her husband in terms of getting what she wanted out of it because the way the language she uses it's like she had she came up with certain expectations you fucked up she even she even used the language make it up to me so to speak which i guess makes sense in theory but like you know what is the goal as i always kind of you know, is the goal to just have your husband acknowledge that your feelings were hurt and so that you feel like he now understands how he could have handled that situation better in the future? You know, whenever I experience conflict or in a relationship, to me, the only thing that really matters is can we both come to a common understanding of how we both could have done

Starting point is 00:20:05 things differently in that in that conflict and then how do we avoid in the future i don't usually do it for like uh explain to you why you owe me you know i just don't think relationships do well when you start tracking ious and maybe you know she didn't mean it that way but also maybe she did but you know she said, he's just getting defensive. Well, he gets defensive because you said you ruined, my memory of our wedding is ruined. Now, how could he not get defensive about that, right? Because you just say you hurt my feelings. I was a little upset by how you handled it. No, you said you ruined the memory of our wedding, which can't get that back. So he's going to feel defensive about it. And, you said you ruined the memory of our wedding, which can't get that back. So he's going

Starting point is 00:20:46 to feel defensive about it. And, you know, once you trigger your partner who's now defensive, they're no longer thinking about how to resolve your frustrations. They're just thinking about how to defend themselves. Well, OK, so Jay writes, I told him what he did was so hurtful. And for what reasons? And I hope he makes it up to me. To be honest, I don't think he will. It's been a couple of days now and he hasn't even given me an apology and doesn't think he did anything wrong. So that part of not getting the apology and not thinking he did anything wrong.

Starting point is 00:21:16 I don't know if that's the case, but my guess is, and I wasn't there, but my guess is the way she communicated her frustration, probably she sprinkled in various words and phrases that triggered him and made him defensive. And instead of focusing on resolving her frustrations and pain, he was focused on defending himself. Most importantly, the accusation that he ruined the memory of their wedding night. You know what I'm saying? So like right now, they are almost fighting two different battles and they have two different expectations and they're not on the same page, you know?

Starting point is 00:21:54 And I just think, yeah, I mean, we need them both here, so to speak, you know? But my short advice is that you just gotta, you know, when you're in a fight like this, kind of you gotta be careful of the accusations you put out there. And you also have to always ask yourself, what's your goal of this? And how can he really make it up to you? What does that look like?

Starting point is 00:22:16 I mean, are you talking jewelry? Are you talking quality time? you know and then maybe say something like you know it's okay babe i'd really but can we maybe have a night where we really celebrate you know us getting married and like have a moment you know because i've you know i really wanted that with you and i didn't you know get it is a lot different than you ruined this and when you tell someone that they ruined something especially a night that you literally can't get back it's gonna make them very defensive you tell someone that they ruined something, especially a night that you literally can't get back, it's going to make them very defensive, you know? And that doesn't mean you don't have the right to get upset. It just comes down to how you communicate your frustration. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:22:54 I almost wonder, though, because I feel like so often in conversations about conflict, sometimes people will try to communicate how they feel and then feel like someone's like writing it off not seeing it seriously so then they escalate it to you know like maybe she what do you think if let's say she came in with the approach of hey can i just like talk to you about something i don't want to have any lingering resentment but it's just like it hurt my feelings a tiny bit that you went out with your brother until 4 a.m on our wedding night like i was just really looking forward to for the time with you and if he's like whatever it's not a big deal or like tries to change the subject and dismisses her a bunch of times like that's how sometimes i think in these situations it can escalate to the totally you've ruined our wedding night that's why i'm

Starting point is 00:23:36 bringing it up that's assuming that's how it started i don't know how it all started but usually the accusations are usually sprinkled in with the the intro you know it really hurt my feelings you basically ruined our writing night how could you usually that's how things like that get brought up or addressed do you have advice for people where it is kind of the scenario of when you don't make a big deal out of it, they don't respond or they try to dismiss it? it you know making a big deal isn't like is she almost alluded to like losing her shit or going nuclear or you know what i'm saying you know freaking out that's i don't i mean that's never gonna help the situation i mean you can do it if you just want to vent but you know acknowledging something that you're very frustrated out and not and making excuses for your partner and not

Starting point is 00:24:42 dismissing it and not just letting it go, you have the right to bring it up. If it bothered you, and it is your wedding night, you have the right to be frustrated. All that really matters is, how do you avoid this from happening in the future? How do you get on the same page

Starting point is 00:24:56 so you feel like he now understands how you felt in that situation? And hopefully he gives a shit, because you're now his you're his wife and you're his husband and so he should want to consider you because that's ultimately what happened he didn't consider her feelings on their wedding night and and that mattered to her and how did she get him to consider his feelings in the future you ruined my wedding night isn't the way to do it is all i'm saying so but i'd love to talk to you both let's get on a mediation call

Starting point is 00:25:26 yeah convince him to come on yeah i sent jay an email so we'll we'll see nick is dying to talk to you both yeah because the only way we really get to the bottom of this is having them both on and i think this is a great potential mediation call obviously something meaningful something important it needs to be resolved it hasn hasn't gotten resolved. And until it gets resolved, she's going to hell down to this resentment, which isn't good for him. So it's in his best interest to come on or else. Anyway, we got a great episode for you. Don't forget to send those questions at asknickatthevilefiles.com for all things mediation, texting office hours, sweating the wedding, and just your general Ask Nick episodes, whether it's Christmas drama, New

Starting point is 00:26:05 Year's drama, whatever, family drama, relationship drama. We love it all. And don't forget that last Friday we dropped an update special on Vile Files Plus. So for all you people thirsting for more updates from all of our callers, you know where to find them. It's on Vile Files Plus. Free to sign up. Just go to VileFiles.com.

Starting point is 00:26:23 Do not miss it. I think we're closing in on 20 different episodes of updates that you have missed out on if you haven't signed up yet. So please check it out. It's a seven-day free trial. Let's get to our callers. Question time with me. Let's ask Nick your sexy questions. How's it going? Good. How are you? Good. What's your name? My name's Ronnie. I am 30. How are you? Good. What's your name? My name's Ronnie.

Starting point is 00:26:46 I am 30. How can we help Ronnie? My husband would rather spend time with deer than me. Okay. Deer the animal, I'm assuming. Yes. Tell us more. So we've been married for two years together, almost nine years.

Starting point is 00:27:03 He's a huge hunter and fisherman basically like the whole year is consumed with hunting season from like september till january then ice fishing then turkey season and then regular fishing and i just feel like there's like no time for us it's kind of been a build-up over the years okay how have you addressed this with him so I've tried to bring it up um and I just want to say like I want to be like supportive of his hobbies like I think it's important to have hobbies and individuality. I just feel like he's willing to go and spend two weeks hunting, but won't take time off for work to go on like a trip with me. So I've tried to say that, but I don't know. I'm just not having very much luck.

Starting point is 00:28:01 How do you, how have you tried to say that? Let's, let's role play. I'm your husband. Okay. Sometimes he doesn't like, if I just like, we'll spring something on him, like right after the work day. So I'll like text him like, Hey, can we like check in this weekend or something? And he's like, yeah. And I'll sit down and I'll try to kind of say, it's really important to me that we like spend more time together like i really miss you i feel like we're disconnected and he kind of just i don't know we'll say like please give me a break like hunting season's important i don't know i just feel like we're kind of is he a professional

Starting point is 00:28:40 of any kind what's he do for work? He works for a cabinet company. So he's a carpenter. All right. So hunting, while fun for him, doesn't keep the lights on, so to speak. Yeah. It is, in fact, a hobby of his. Have you ever asked him if hunting was more important than you? Yeah.

Starting point is 00:28:58 A long time ago. Like I said, even before we were married, like if you had to choose, would you choose like hunting over me? Which maybe it was an unfair question. I don't know. But he couldn't really answer it. I honestly feel like he would choose hunting. I don't know.

Starting point is 00:29:17 I'm sorry you feel that way, but it is how you feel. And you shouldn't ignore that. Clearly, you've mentioned this. You've brought this up. You brought it up before you got married. But how aware of your unhappiness do you think he is? I would say he's pretty aware. I mean, from my perspective, I'm the only one that ever will really bring up if I feel like we have an issue or something. I'll admit I'm not the best communicator. I kind of like fear conflict, but I'll try to bring it up with him. Like this isn't making me happy. Like how can we fix this?

Starting point is 00:29:52 And I just, I don't know. I don't think he, maybe I'm not saying it correctly. I don't know. Well, I'm not there, but if you're saying any version of what you're saying to us, you're clearly communicating that you're frustrated. It sounds like he's just kind of choosing not to care, essentially. Listen, I mean, in every, even the best relationships, like, you know, it can feel like our partners are nagging us, you know. It can feel like our partners are nagging us, you know, even at times where I feel like I give a lot of attention to Natalie and she's, we spend a lot of time together and she's a huge part of my life. But because I'm also super busy and I'm also can be very much in my head, you know, I can be working when I'm not working.

Starting point is 00:30:42 Like I'm usually just always thinking about work. I can be working when I'm not working. I'm usually just always thinking about work. So I have this really bad habit and great skill to make someone feel alone even when I'm in their presence. So at times, I have to be mindful of that and work on that in my relationship. However, at times, I can just feel like Natalie's nagging at me when you know when she's asking you know checking in or whatever sometimes I feel like you know she's

Starting point is 00:31:12 reaching out to me but sometimes I feel like she's doing it just to bug me you know those little things in relationships where you're just like are you actually trying to piss me off or are you actually asking something of me you know what I'm saying and so i think every relationship deals with that but at the same time it sounds like you've made several attempts whether you were incredibly articulate

Starting point is 00:31:37 and you really express your emotions but it sounds like if you said what you said to anyone who gave a shit, they would understand you're frustrated. And like you said, when I asked you how aware of your frustrations do you think he is, it sounds like you think he's pretty aware. Regardless of how well you communicated with it, if I were to talk to him, it's like, how much does your hunting piss off your wife he'd probably be like oh my god like a lot so when hunting season's going on like is it like an every weekend thing he's that's what he's doing yes every weekend um i think i've seen him twice in the past like two months um i went to what do you mean by literally? Yeah. Literally twice. When you say twice, like for two weeks, two days, two out twice, what? Two days? Like two days.

Starting point is 00:32:32 You've seen him for two days in the past two months. Yes. That's nuts. Yeah, I know. So I think like part of my problem that I think that I could work on is I just I work two jobs. So I'm usually working from like 8 a.m. till 9 p.m. at night. And then he's hunting every weekend. So he usually will say when I bring this up, like, well, if you didn't work two jobs, then we would spend more time together.

Starting point is 00:33:03 But this has only been. OK. And why do you work two jobs then we would spend more time together but this has only been okay and why do you work two jobs so i've been like trying to pay off my student loans and just like saving up to buy a new house so i feel like i'm trying to like a house that you two will live in yes and because you're married you guys i don't know how you do your finances, but you're married. So they're all kind of the same. I don't know what state you live in. I know certain states have different rules and whatever, but you didn't sign a prenup,

Starting point is 00:33:33 did you? No. Yeah. So be like, all right, I won't work. We'll just have less money. Great. I know. And so sometimes during arguments, in the past, he had said, well,

Starting point is 00:33:47 I'm just busy trying to provide for us and stuff like that. And I was like, okay, because at the time I was probably maybe contributing a third of the mortgage. So now I'm working two jobs and contributing half. And then he gets mad that i'm working two jobs i don't know well i'm getting the sense it really has nothing to do with your contribution and has to do with him not wanting to give up his hobbies for you it won't matter like it'll just be a new argument you know every time the fact that he hunts every weekend is absurd. That's it. Now, you can choose to accept his absurdity. By definition, it's extreme. And listen, Tom Brady is an extreme guy. And there's a reason why many consider him to be the greatest quarterback of all time, because he has

Starting point is 00:34:38 a singular focus. He's obsessive. It has affected his personal life he's making a choice now again I don't your husband I don't know what his goals are when it comes to hunting but he is extreme when it comes to hunting he needs to recognize that and like you need to recognize and ask yourself how can

Starting point is 00:34:59 is this this isn't a marriage you've seen your husband twice in two months so something needs to change because you can't keep doing this. You know, right? I don't think so. And you're only 30. You're beautiful.

Starting point is 00:35:17 You got a lot going for you. You certainly can provide for yourself. You got two fucking jobs. Yeah, you have this amazing work ethic. You have the willingness to listen to a partner when they say, I'm worried about money and you say okay i'm gonna take action yeah like that's an awesome quality like he's lucky yeah um and like i bet you would like if he hunted every other weekend i'd still think that's extreme and yet you'd probably be thrilled if every other

Starting point is 00:35:41 weekend you got to spend time with your husband yeah hell you'd be happy with once a month you you get a weekend and that's nuts you know yeah i told him i was like if we could just have like one week a year where we go on a vacation like i would be happy but he won't take like time off for work because he saves it all for like hunting and ice fishing trips and and i'm guessing i'm guessing all the money he spends on this hobby he doesn't run by you he just kind of does whatever the fuck he wants yeah no and it's expensive like he'll apply for like an elk pig in idaho that's like a thousand all the hunting equipment and and that doesn't really bother me i just wish that he could maybe like go on a trip with me every once in a while or i mean

Starting point is 00:36:32 eventually you're just gonna cheat on this guy no i would never do that i mean i'm glad but like have you thought of leaving him i hate that we're going, but this is extreme. I don't know what else to say. And you're telling me that your husband hunts every weekend and is, doesn't sound remotely interested in making time for his wife. You know, I I'm obsessed with football and, you know, football season is,

Starting point is 00:36:59 you know, once a year, I get to watch NFL football from some, from September to the end of January. I love it. It's great. And if I were a single guy, every Sunday I'd wake up and I'd turn on TV as soon as I wake up and I'd watch, I'd listen to a football podcast. I'd watch football pregame shows. I'd watch my Packers. And then I would turn on all the games and I'd have these quads. And like, sometimes I get to do that. But now, you know, I get to watch the Packer game you know that's that's that's my I will say I'm like I'm a diehard Packer fan and

Starting point is 00:37:31 like I've ever been a relationship it's like that's a non-negotiable kind of you know it's like if you want me to be happy just let me do this but all day every day like oh I just check out like football season and like I'm just I I have Saturday. I'm preparing for like, holy shit. Like that's nuts, you know, but I want to be in a relationship and I want to, you know, I want to make my partner happy and I want to do things for her and I want to feel connected to her. And I, I want to have a, he doesn't have one. I don't, I don't know why he's married.

Starting point is 00:38:02 Certainly not to have a relationship. Yeah. I, I don't know. Have you guys talked about kids to have a relationship. Yeah. I don't know. Have you guys talked about kids? Yes. That was another thing I was going to bring up. Like since February, he's been pushing for kids. Oh, my God.

Starting point is 00:38:12 What? Yes. Oh, my God. Absolutely not. I'm just like, I can't make that next step. Like, I feel like we're on totally separate pages. Like, I feel like so alone, even though i've been in this relationship for like almost a decade and i like i'm it was like a hard no i want kids i just like i don't want

Starting point is 00:38:34 to have kids if i'm in a relationship like this and i don't i don't know i don't think he understands i've like asked if he'd go to like couples counseling that's a hard no from him i don't really know what else to try you mean listen you you're in an extreme situation so you're gonna have to kind of be extreme yourself because clearly you've tried to handle this extreme situation with you know calmness and just negotiate and just reasonableness. You know, like, hey, I'm just trying to be reasonable. I just I'll take a little bit. I don't take the bare minimum.

Starting point is 00:39:15 But clearly that hasn't worked. And he right now, you must feel very powerless, you know, calls all the shots. He's just like, hey, I'm going to hunt. Fuck you. I don't care. He's just like, Hey, I'm going to hunt. Fuck you. I don't care. I'm just going to do this. And so, and you've accepted this for, I guess, much of your relationship. You have allowed him to maintain this power, but it's time for you to take your power back. Now to do that, you know, you might have to make choices that you on service level don't want to make i don't think you got into this marriage or this relationship so that you could get divorced but no one does but you gotta

Starting point is 00:39:50 something needs to wake this guy up you know and you taking your power back is well it starts by you know i'm glad you said no to the whole kid's conversation but i think you need to sit him down and just say this isn't your next conversation with him isn't about you know pleading with him and like trying to negotiate how to get time with him now the next conversation you have with him is sitting him down and just telling him how you feel and you're gonna have to practice this to someone who's you know more demure and more you know mild mannered you're gonna have to practice this. As someone who's more demure and more mild-mannered, you're going to have to practice this, and you're going to have to get fucking fired up.

Starting point is 00:40:30 Maybe practice with some friends. Get a little gas. Find that anger, because somewhere deep down, you must be angry, and I need you to find that anger. And you just tell them, I'm not happy. I'm lonely. I don't feel like I'm in a marriage. I don't feel like I'm anywhere in marriage. I don't feel like I'm anywhere in

Starting point is 00:40:46 the ballpark of list of your priorities. It's hunting, it's fishing, and then that's your next 10 priorities. Your buddies, your, I don't know. I don't even know who you're friends with because I never see you, but you clearly have hunting friends. They must know way more about you than I do. And this is not how I want to live the rest of my life. I have way too much going for me. I'm too good looking and I'm too ambitious and I'm too smart and I'm too successful to waste my time on someone who doesn't want to spend any time with me. And any attempt that I make at trying to fix our relationship, you shoot down immediately. You don't even give me, and I'm done. I'm done. I'm not interested. And honestly, if you're not interested in either going to couples therapy or start giving up some of your weekends, you can't go on hunting weekends every

Starting point is 00:41:30 weekend anymore. I want half. At least. I think it's going to take that. He needs to realize that you're done. That you're no longer going to put up with this because right now this motherfucker thought he could just be an absent husband hunt all the time not see his wife and he had the nerve to come home one day and go i think you should have my child so i can leave you with my child our child and be an absent father and i'm guessing he probably wants a son so he can teach him how to hunt, but maybe he'll do that with his daughter. Probably. You know, and basically when your kid's old enough to hunt,

Starting point is 00:42:10 he's going to steal your kid every weekend. Like, why the fuck would you want to have a kid with this guy? And this is literally what you need to say to him. Talk to him like, you know, he's your girlfriend's husband. And she's giving you free reign to speak your mind. Because you are tired of how your girlfriend's husband and she's giving you free reign to speak your mind because you are tired of how your girlfriend's husband treats your friend and you're tired of seeing her sad and miserable and lonely yeah i'll have to practice that you wanna do you wanna do a first draft now maybe but seriously like i can't tell you to leave him and i can't tell you to get divorced but like

Starting point is 00:42:42 you you do see your future right yeah i think so I think so. He was just recently in Nebraska for like 16 days and just got back on Sunday. And I was just like, like I took my wedding ring off and I was just like listening to like the Kelsey Ballerini, like divorce, like playlist. And I was like, I just can't do this anymore. I don't know. I feel like I'm just, I don't know. Like he takes advantage of how nice I am, but I think that's also my own fault. I need to be more assertive. Yeah. Like, listen, if you were to leave this relationship, you have some work to do on yourself. You do, you know, are you in therapy of any kind right now? I started in the summer. It wasn't really a good fit.

Starting point is 00:43:25 So I'm kind of trying to find a therapist that I can help with. Yeah, take your time. You'll know when you find it. But you need to work on that. Because your next relationship, chances are you might attract a certain kind of guy. Hopefully not a hunter. Well, it doesn't matter. It could be in the cars.

Starting point is 00:43:43 A guy who you have been willing to shut up with him at times and he's really appreciated that about you and it's time for you to stop shutting up it's time for you to speak up about the things that you don't like how you when you're when you feel like you're being mistreated and it's time for you to always communicate how you feel when you feel it and not bottle it up inside and not feel like, well, I just, I don't want to be a bother. I don't, you know, and it's one thing to be a supportive partner, but it's another thing to be supportive when you're not getting any support yourself. You know, like you're doing your part, he's not doing his.

Starting point is 00:44:27 And you need to get better at recognizing when the people you're investing in aren't doing their part and not make excuses for them. Yeah. I've spent almost, like I said, a decade in this relationship. It's hard to just, I don't know know decide when it's time to walk away or like i need to fight more you know just kind of torn you do not need to fight more what's fight for what by the way when he came home and you didn't have your ready ring on what what did he notice no well he doesn't even wear his so i don't think he would notice what do you mean he doesn't wear his why why doesn't he wear his wedding ring he doesn't wear it well for work like since he does carpentry like that makes sense but other than that i don't know sometimes he'll put it on if we go to a wedding or something but

Starting point is 00:45:15 he forgets to wear it i've told him it bothers me but i i don't know this guy does not give a shit about what you think or feel. Yeah. That's evident. What is there to fight for? It's so hard. I love his entire family. And I'm so close with his sister and all of his cousins and his parents. Have you talked to his sister about this? I mean, she kind of talks to me about her own husband and her frustrations with his hunting. I don't know if this is like a

Starting point is 00:45:45 minnesota thing or it's just like everyone i talked to is mad about their husband hunting but that's probably just the group i'm in yeah yeah probably i mean you're you're only 30 years old and right now you're only in this relationship because you've been in it for 10 years and you like his family yeah when you put it like that there's you're miserable and you have every right to be miserable but you gotta stop being a martyr in your in your own life you know and there's no one you know i don't know i don't know what your religion are and if you're catholic you you're raised to be a martyr yeah i am yeah so well that's something to honestly consider as a as a raised catholic i i empathize with you the whole kind of martyr kind of mentality of

Starting point is 00:46:37 suffering your way to heaven and i don't know maybe that's how we're going to get to that special place but i don't think if that even if that is true i don't think that's how we're going to get to that special place. But I don't think if that even if that is true, I don't think that's what God had in mind. To just be fucking miserable in your marriage and be some sort of like fucking servant. Whatever fucking guy. I don't know. But you're you're super young. You're beautiful. You have your whole life in front of you.

Starting point is 00:46:58 And there are plenty of guys out there who wouldn't do this. Yeah, I just it's hard what's hard i think just like having that conversation or just the walking away is that like i've thought about it it's not hard it's scary and i understand that it's scary you know i've talked about this before you know i used to live in milwaukee right lived there my whole life. 30, 30 some years, you know, thought about moving all the time. Seemed hard. Oh, moving to Chicago, moving to New York.

Starting point is 00:47:33 Oh my God. Can I do that? That's like, seems like such a big move. Turned out it was really easy. I just had to do it. You know, I was scared of it. I was scared of all the things that I didn't know that I worried about. I was the, it was the unknown. Like, how am just had to do it. I was scared of it. I was scared of all the things that I didn't know that I worried about. It was the unknown. How am I going to do that? How am I

Starting point is 00:47:49 going to make it work? Am I going to make friends? I thought of all the things that I could be scared about. And there's a difference between things that are difficult and things that are scary. And we often confuse the two and we call it hard to justify why we don't want to take action in our lives. And rather just face our fears and, you know, find out. You know, because usually it's more scary than it is hard. Because hard, hard you can figure out. You know what's hard? Working two jobs. You know what's really hard? Being alone in a marriage.

Starting point is 00:48:27 That's hard. You're doing hard already. I don't know what's going to be so hard about like, you know, getting a divorce. Well, you'll still be alone at first. No change. Yeah, that's true. All right. And the only thing that's going to change is eventually you'll date, you'll meet some people. I don't know. Even for, hell, you'll probably have fun on bad dates because at least you're sitting across the table from somebody. At least talking. I mean, you know? Yeah, he's choosing to be with you and not a deer. Right.

Starting point is 00:48:57 What is the point? I know. I just, like, part of it is like, is this my fault? Like, I've just, like, for so for so long, what am I doing wrong? What could I do better? You clearly have played a role in you allowing your husband to maintain all this control, empowering your relationship. You have certainly made some attempts.

Starting point is 00:49:15 At some point, you have just have to stop accepting that he is unwilling to budge and call his bluff that, fine, you are unwilling to be the husband i need then i don't want to be your wife it's that simple to death do us part my fucking ass like i'm sorry like you i i'm not gonna be in a marriage by myself you know i know like the biggest thing that's like stressed me out recently is just thinking of like okay if we did like separate like who's gonna take our cats which sounds so silly i get it so you take the cats he's not there i know i'm like they're my cats i'm gonna take them yeah i i mean if you do leave them one day i do think you just leave in fact if I were you I would just move out

Starting point is 00:50:06 take the cats and be like I need some space from you I don't want to see you but like you need to start making some drastic moves here he needs to believe that you're done you're gone he needs to notice too

Starting point is 00:50:21 so you took off your wedding ring and he didn't notice that's a problem so when he comes back next time from his trip you need to not be there or change the locks i don't care do something crazy i'm leaving you don't come home like yeah if i i just left and he came back from one of his hunting trips, like, what would he say? I think then he would maybe care. I don't know. Don't you think you deserve more?

Starting point is 00:50:51 I mean, you clearly do. It's supposed to be a rhetorical question, but like, when are you going to get mad? I know. I know I do. I do get mad sometimes. I just like he'll tell me, like, why do you have to be so negative or just give me a break? And then I just feel so annoying. Break up what? He's never there. like he'll tell me like why do you have to be so negative or just give me a break and then he's never there he sounds like a guy where it's just like you know again back to my football analogy if like i was in super busy and i'm just like can i just watch one game this week just one

Starting point is 00:51:17 just one game give me three hours this week you can have and and and then like now he was like no no and then i come on can you just give me a break? I just want to watch one game. I want to decompress. I can have three hours to decompress. And he's acting like he's begging for three hours of alone time. When in reality, he leaves for weeks. He leaves every weekend.

Starting point is 00:51:38 What does giving him a break look like in his world? I don't know. That's a good question. Don't let him infiltrate your own opinion of yourself. Like he has not earned a seat at the table. Maybe there was a point in time in the relationship where he really knew you. He cared for you. He had positive, constructive things to say. He doesn't anymore. How can he know you? He's not spending any time with you. And like, you know, I it's I feel like it really scares me to think about being beholden to the ideas and opinions of people who I fundamentally like disagree with the way they treat others.

Starting point is 00:52:09 You know, it's like he has not earned the right to have his opinion matter. And so you will be so much more powerful the second you can stop letting him make you feel guilty or make you worry that you're being naggy because you're not. Yeah. I just I don't know why he would want to have kids with me if he doesn't even want to spend time with me. Because he wants to have kids. He doesn't want to be a husband. And you're literally in his mind, a vessel to have children, to raise his kids while he hunts and literally kidnap them so he can hunt with them event at the appropriate age. Stop making it your problem. I know I'm kind Stop making it your problem. I know divorce is hard and emotional and costly and difficult, but it can't be harder than what

Starting point is 00:52:53 you're dealing with right now. And you're too young, but not that young where you don't have time to waste. And you've already given him a decade of your life. And you've been super patient. And you've tried. This is who he's decided to be. And if you want to move out and make him really believe that you want a divorce, and if he drastically changes. But short of him being willing to go to couples therapy and immediately give you half of those weekends, I wouldn't even consider it.

Starting point is 00:53:27 He doesn't get to win you back by making you feel bad for wanting his time. Because that's what he does now. He just, I don't know, and I hate to use the word, gaslights you because it's not really gaslighting. But he victimizes himself and makes you feel like you're the wrong one for wanting any time and attention and love. And that's crazy. And I'm speaking to you this way because I want to get you activated. You know, I want you to fucking get fired up. I want you to be mad.

Starting point is 00:54:00 I want you to stop saying things like well maybe i should be more understanding or maybe maybe there's more i could do maybe i could be a little more patient no i want you to get off this call and be like what was i doing this is insane well like it sounds insane to me like i like i'm i'll get so mad and then i'm like is it just me that's why i wanted to call today i was like okay i want someone else to hear this. And it's not my mom or a friend. Everyone deserves to find love and happiness, but like,

Starting point is 00:54:31 you're a beautiful woman, you know? And like, you're like, whatever fears you have about meeting someone else, like, I think you're going to be fine. You know,

Starting point is 00:54:40 like, you know, regardless of how, but you're, you, you've got two jobs, you got your health, you got your looks, like, you're a, you're going to be a hot commodity. And I know it might not feel that way, but I'm just trying to gas you up here. I'm just trying to, I want you to feel confident.

Starting point is 00:54:57 I want you to feel good. I want you to, I want you to see what Amanda and I are seeing that, you know, your biggest mistake is that you're nuts for, for, for staying at this long. And again, I understand why I'm not trying to be mean, but like, I, I, I'm trying to rattle your cages here. Cause I want you to just be fed up. There's nothing left to consider. Yeah. I probably should have known this even before I got married. It was kind of always an issue, but. But I don't know. I ignored it. I hoped it would change. I know you're not supposed to rely on hope. No, but like, listen, you're still young enough that you can learn tough lessons and have it make

Starting point is 00:55:35 a difference in your life. I feel like a huge priority of yours is like hopefully rebuilding your self-esteem because it would make me feel like such shit. Like the rejection of like my husband not spending time with me, like that would just like break me down. And to have that exist in so many different ways and to question myself and to wonder like why this is happening and why the person who's supposed to love me can't even spend more than two days with me like that would really, really like that would break my heart slowly and painfully. It's like awful. And so what I want for you so dearly is for you to reclaim a sense of self-esteem. So that way, you know, there is zero fucking chance that you deserve this and that you are a thousand percent

Starting point is 00:56:14 worthy of better. You are. Thank you. And I get that. It's so scary. It's so, you know, it's easy to sit on the other side of the table and say, like, get the hell out. And I get, you know, the Christmases you spend together, the family, like like all those things i understand that it's so real but it's like it goes back to what nick said it's not hard it's scary and like i think being brave and showing up for yourself in that way is a great first step in developing self-esteem yeah maybe i can move out of minnesota because i don't want to yeah yes even better yeah god just i would take you know what i would do if i were you i would go back and reflect on all of your hopes and dreams that you've been ignoring for the past decade because you've been prioritizing this marriage in him all by yourself and maybe the next year

Starting point is 00:56:57 you just kind of let loose go have some fun yeah i forgot what that feels like i mean start now now's as good time as any but what's he doing right now? Where is he in this moment? He is at work right now. I tried to get him to do a mediation call, but that was a hard no. Well. Well, you have some hard no's now. What if we text him right now and said, you wanted a divorce? Oh my God.

Starting point is 00:57:21 I mean, I know that's crazy, but like, is it? I know. I don't even know what he would say who cares i mean he was kind of mad i was going on the podcast but though he's gonna love i can't wait till he listens to this episode oh my god he knows that you're gonna have a podcast i love that i told him yeah uh hey if you're listening what the fuck dude i just want to know what is he what i would love to know what his version of this story is i know that's why i wanted him to be on so like he could tell his side too so it's not just me saying it but i really don't think it's that different i mean also like if he

Starting point is 00:57:55 wants to be an active father what's he gonna do when his kids are playing sports and maybe they don't want to hunt you know what what happens you know if he has three girls who have no interest in hunting whatsoever but they want dad to show up at ballet or soccer what happens when your baby has 103 degree fever that week before like the week he's supposed to go on a big hunting trip yeah he always said like you can't ever have a baby like during hunting season so we're supposed to plan it around my god i'm about to hunt this man i am about to hunt him down and yell at him but you know what honestly though let him be whoever the fuck he wants this isn't your fault but it is at this point maybe going forward your fault you know this is who he is man this is a radical motherfucker who loves to hunt and you're not going to convince him to love it less or be less radical.

Starting point is 00:58:45 And I just don't see a world where this guy goes from being this extreme to being the husband that you deserve. I, you know, that would be a literal miracle. He needs a wake up call or find someone who, I don't know, like I, in fact, I don't know what, like who out there would marry him, but I don't know. I don't know. He always tells me that he's not as bad as his friends. I don't care.

Starting point is 00:59:12 It makes me... Yeah. How is that even possible? I don't know. Who gives a shit? Great. Your friends are bad husbands, too. Congratulations.

Starting point is 00:59:23 You know? I didn't murder four people. I only murdered two people. Bad husbands too. Congratulations. You know, it's like, I don't, I didn't murder four people. I only murdered two people. I mean, I don't know. I,

Starting point is 00:59:33 why can't we just text them and say, I think, uh, I need some space from you. I don't think you should come home tonight. I mean, I don't want you to do anything. I just,

Starting point is 00:59:39 yeah, I know. It's like, you're never going to be ready though. I don't know. Yeah. I took the night off of my other job. Um, so I'll see him tonight. So I don't know if I should like talk to him when he gets home or, I mean, if you're asking me, I just think there's no better time than now to let him

Starting point is 00:59:57 know that you no longer be want, deserve to be treated this way. And I just don't see a world where this guy based on what you're telling me is going to change because like he's so radical that honestly even if he were to give up all like half the weekends and he now wants to hunt do we really expect him to like be enjoyable to be around or make you feel like he's even happy to be there i doubt it no because then he complains the whole time yeah so i just, what is the point? I almost feel like you should say to him, it's like, why are we, like, what's the point? Like, I don't, like, this is stupid. This is stupid.

Starting point is 01:00:31 I've thought about, like, saying, like, why are you even married to me? Do you even want to be with me? Yeah, I, no, I get that. But I really just want you to talk to him in a way that is less demure and less like you're the victim. in a way that that is less demure and less like you're the victim i need you to finally stand up to your to for yourself and stand up to him and say i i am this is stupid i am like i am i am tired of wasting my time i finally woke up and i just don't deserve this and like listen you're obsessed with hunting it's your first second and 50th priority and they're just i just realized there's

Starting point is 01:01:05 i just realized there's not in a world where you you have any interest in giving me what i deserve and so i just think we shouldn't be married anymore because i could ask you to give up all these weekends because i want to spend time with you and i do love you because and i wish i wish you wanted to spend as much time with me as i as i you, but you don't. And I'm not going to sit here and beg and I'm not going to make you hang out with me and I'm not going to make you spend time with me. And I'm certainly not going to feel guilty for wanting someone to spend time with me. And then when you do spend time with me, make me feel guilty because you're not hunting. This is stupid. Let's just stop wasting each other's time. You go hunting. I'm just going to move on.

Starting point is 01:01:46 Let's get divorced and, you know, cut our losses because I deserve to do so much more with my life than just be your fucking housewife. Yeah, I definitely. Maybe I'll say that tonight. I'll try. You can do it. You can. You have to tell yourself you're going to do it.

Starting point is 01:02:05 Because I know it's like scary. And I know from like a rational standpoint, you're like, this feels really big. I've never talked to him like this before. You have to go into the mindset of like, I'm doing this. Today's the day. It's happening. And also, if you have a hard time speaking, you can text us. You can honestly just get it out.

Starting point is 01:02:18 You know? Yeah, I know. I think like texting or like I've wrote letters before. I'm better about like expressing myself. Well, he's not going to read a whole letter. No, he'll probably throw it away. Yeah. So I really think I want a divorce via text will be super effective. I think you should say so that way, at least the conversation like he goes in knowing that these are it's not like if it escalates, these are the stakes. knowing that these are it's not like if it escalates that these are the stakes and you're going to be so fine you've got two jobs you know you're not going to be any more lonely

Starting point is 01:02:50 you're going to be literally less lonely and don't let yourself think about the what is you said you wanted to live somewhere else like don't let yourself stay in this situation and always wonder what would have happened if you'd like stepped up for yourself and like pursued the things that you genuinely want i like i know change is always going to be scary that's inevitable but it's not hard because like again what you're doing is so hard and you are one you are you are in this very unique position that any amount of change is going to be better it just is because what you have now is you're a prisoner in your own home. You're not allowed to connect with people. You're not allowed to go out. You're not allowed to be romanced. You're not allowed to do anything because you're married, because

Starting point is 01:03:32 obviously you want to be a faithful wife. But at the same time, he won't give that into you, so you're literally a prisoner. Set yourself free. You will only, I don't know, I mean, I just feel like you're only going to feel good good i'm trying to see what negatives are from leaving this relationship and maybe you know maybe he'll surprise me maybe him actually realizing that you're done he will do a 180 i don't know i don't think so well he's gonna have to do something because otherwise he's gonna just be fucking old and lonely because he's gonna be too busy Hunting how is he gonna date I don't know if the woods in Idaho

Starting point is 01:04:10 Has a lot of like action You know I know He's gonna go to strip clubs that's all he's gonna do It just makes me so sad To have a husband who never tells you Oh you look nice today I don't know.

Starting point is 01:04:25 Yeah, it is sad, but stop it. You have, you gotta start taking control of your situation. And that's where your responsibility in this role comes in is that you do have a choice. You do have power to exercise. You're just not doing it. You're just sitting around waiting for something to change. And clearly it's not going to.

Starting point is 01:04:45 You have tried. You've tried to communicate with him. He has shot you down at every turn. It almost sounds like you're lying to us. It's so outrageous and so crazy. I swear I'm not. No, I know. I'm kidding.

Starting point is 01:04:56 But like, it's nuts. And you should get your marriage annulled. And your priest will be like, well, I don't know. I've literally never, I don't know. I've never seen him. He's been hunting. I mean, you probably won't be able to marriage annulled. And the priest will be like, well, I don't know. I've literally never, I don't know. I've never seen him. He's been hunting. I mean, you probably won't be able to get annulled.

Starting point is 01:05:09 Well, we didn't get married in the Catholic church, so I don't think it has to be annulled. Great. Okay. Are you going to send the text? Can you send a text? Can you do it? Okay.

Starting point is 01:05:19 Now, I want you to feel good about this. Does it have to say, I want a divorce? I mean, I'm not going to tell you to say that, but you need to start the ball rolling of your new life starts now. Yeah. What's the alternative to, I want a divorce? I don't know.

Starting point is 01:05:35 Like, I want a separation. I'm not sure. You can always not get divorced. Yeah. Because you're not saying- You want to separate and what? You're already separated. You never see him. I know. i guess we live in the same house but um we need a divorce i want i want a divorce we can talk when you're home but i'm no longer willing to live my life alone

Starting point is 01:06:03 yes okay active situation of all active situations. For real. So I want a divorce. I'm no longer willing to live my life alone. Is that what you said? Yeah. And I think maybe the line of, we can talk about this when you get home,

Starting point is 01:06:23 in between those two sentences if you want. But again, I just want to be clear. You don't need him to get a divorce. You don't need his permission. You don't need to have a conversation with him. If you want to, you're willing to talk to him. It's up to you, but you don't need him. So if he decides to ignore you or not take you seriously, you don't need his permission

Starting point is 01:06:42 to get divorced. Take control of your life. Yeah. I feel like he'll be so mad when he comes home right i well that's a start honestly that's honestly better than him not giving a shit yeah because i had told him i wanted to talk to him tonight and he was like well if you're not crabby whatever that means he's just a dick oh my god and don't let him blame me for saying you want a divorce he for sure will he'll be like oh you went on that stupid podcast now you want a divorce i'm i'm so i'm i'm activated for you like i want like yeah this is nuts this is nuts maybe you know do you have a friend's house you can go to tonight maybe just not be there

Starting point is 01:07:22 yeah i do i think after you send this text text your friends update them say i just sent this message like so that way they can like check in on you they can make sure that you're following through and that it's like you don't get steam rolled in this conversation yeah it's just so yeah like with just this isn't a negotiation yeah his house so it's like i would have to leave i guess it's our house but technically his house you're married okay you have rights exercise those rights in fact if you don't want like the only reason not to send this text message right now is because you should go see a lawyer first i know but also you can get the ball, but maybe like look up a lawyer.

Starting point is 01:08:05 Yeah. Maybe send this text to him, text your friends immediately, and then look up a divorce lawyer. And once you start, it's like moving to Chicago. Once you get the ball rolling, you realize, oh, that wasn't so hard. I talked to a lawyer. That was surreal, but I did it. And you'll be more informed. You'll understand your rights.

Starting point is 01:08:24 You know, get ahead did it. And you'll be more informed. You'll understand your rights. You know, get ahead of it. And don't let him spout like blatant lies as facts in this conversation. He's going to probably have so much to say. It's just not true. Like what's true is you've seen him twice in the last month and you feel alone in your marriage and you're miserable. And you're like, it's just not working for you.

Starting point is 01:08:44 And let him hunt and go hunt man like yeah have fun yeah i don't i do not know anyway i'm so sorry yeah thank you you have so much going for you and you need to stop throwing it away yeah i need to stop thinking like I'm too old to find someone else. So not. You are not. You're not. You're not. You're not.

Starting point is 01:09:09 You're not. Like, you're going to be just fine in that department. Trust me. Well, thank you so much for hearing me out and making me feel like I'm not crazy. You're crazy for even thinking that this is remotely normal. You're crazy for trying to have a conversation with him. This is so extreme that like, there's just, there's nothing to talk about. I mean, I'd love to know what a couple, a couple of therapists would say,

Starting point is 01:09:38 like, I don't even know where to start. You know, did you send it by the way? No, it's like in my phone right now. I haven't sent it yet. It's just like, I don't know if I want to say that I want a divorce part. Maybe like just that I'm no longer willing to live my life alone. We can talk about this when you get home. But what does that mean?

Starting point is 01:09:59 I don't know. What about... He doesn't take you seriously. Yeah. Yeah, that's the thing that sucks is like, if it were enough to just communicate your feelings, like you've communicated your feelings. He doesn't care about them. He's not making choices based on your feelings. He's going to call your bluff.

Starting point is 01:10:13 Yeah, I don't think he ever thinks I'll leave. Okay, I will send it. And then text your friends and make sure they know. Did you send it? Yes. your friends and make sure they know yes he's gonna say like you're crazy you're not crazy on the podcast fine you don't have to be married to me anymore great let them i mean like i you're you're alone and you're a prisoner in your own life and you you deserve so much more and there's probably so many guys out there who would just

Starting point is 01:10:45 love, love to have you in their life, would be so grateful to have you in your life, that would cherish the opportunity to treat you well, to take you out, to spend time with you, to raise a family with you. Millions of men. Might be hard to find here or there, but promise me, you will... I know. I really only had one relationship my whole life, so I don't know why I'm scared that I won't find another person. It's scary. It's because we've all, we've all worried about that. I've worried about that. You know, we've all worried about that. It's normal to worry about that, but it's just, it's just untrue. And you know, some people, if I were talking, I could be talking to you and I could be like, hey,

Starting point is 01:11:25 listen, man, before you get back out there, you might need to do a lot of work on yourself and get your shit together. You don't seem like your best self, maybe investing your health and yada, yada, or go back to school. But I don't know you at all, but you got your shit together. The only thing that you got to work on is speaking up and standing up for yourself, which is something you should definitely work on. But everything else you got going shit together. The only thing that you got to work on is speaking up and standing up for yourself, which is something you should definitely work on. But like everything else you got going for you right now, there's a lot of men out there

Starting point is 01:11:50 who would just be fucking thrilled to have you in their life. So thanks for saying that. Keep believing that. Let only surround yourself with people right now that give you confidence and gas you up and make you feel good about yourself. And don't let anyone make you feel less than right now and just have no patience for that especially him sounds good all right we're gonna cut nervous for tonight but thank you i understand and honestly the priority honestly is not talking to him tonight if you feel safer with your girlfriends or whatever let him stew let him wonder everything that makes him this feel

Starting point is 01:12:19 more real that's what you should do so honestly if you don't want to deal with him tonight go sleep at a girlfriend's house. You have cash. Go get a hotel. Treat yourself to a fucking spa day. Reach out to some of your girls and be like, spa day on me. We're staying in a hotel tonight. Have a fucking, just go fucking ham. Yeah. All right. And stuff for you. Sounds good. All right. Keep us posted. We're going to check in on you. I will. I'll give you an update. All right. All right. Good luck. We're proud of you. Thank you so much. All right.

Starting point is 01:12:46 Bye-bye. Bye. This episode is brought to you by BetterHelp Therapy. It's so important. It really, truly is. It can just do so much for your life because you are taking care of your mental health, just like people are taking care of all other aspects of their health. Your mental health is just as important. And care of all other aspects of their health. Your mental health is just as important.

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Starting point is 01:16:27 when you go to skylightframe.com slash files. That's F-I-L-E-S. To get $15 off your purchase of a Skylight Frame, just go to skylightframe.com slash files. That's S-K-Y-L-I-G-H-T-F-R-A-M-E.com slash F-I-L-E-S. Get $15 off a Skylight Frame at skylightframe.com slash F I L E S. How's it going? I'm good. How are you? Good. What's your name? I'm Jessica and I'm 23. How can we help Jessica? I'm wondering if I should just ask out my long distance

Starting point is 01:16:58 situationship instead of waiting for him to. Okay. How long have you been hanging out with Mr. Situationship? I met him in the summer, but we really only started talking the beginning of September, but that's actually when it kind of went into like a long distance friendship. Friendship or Situationship? Like what is your guys' dynamic? Like give us a little background. Right now it's Situationship Basically, we were friends over the summer. It's just that we were working together. I was his boss.

Starting point is 01:17:30 So it was really just like friendly. I don't think either of us would have ever escalated it into like flirting because of that dynamic. But it was his last day at work. And that night we were all hanging out and I could kind of feel the tides turning. And we've been texting every day since that day. work and that night we were all hanging out and i could kind of feel the tides turning and we've been texting every day since that day we've hung out a few times since then and it's definitely situationship territory okay but you haven't hooked up we've hooked up we haven't like had sex but we've yeah seeing each other naked a time or two okay all right

Starting point is 01:18:08 Okay. What conversations, if any, have you had about your dynamic? He visited twice. The first time he visited, we had two dates that went really well. And my goal of the second one was kind of being like, hey, I do really like you. And I think we're getting along well, but I'm not personally in a place to like take anyone seriously or be in a relationship. And his response to that was kind of cool. I wouldn't want to date anyone long distance anyway, but we're still talking every day and we've hung out. Say that one more time. What you said, what? Um, I said, I like talking to you and getting to know you, but personally, I'm not in a place to take anybody seriously or like start a serious relationship. Did you mean that? Yeah. I was two months out, three months at that point out of like a pretty big relationship in

Starting point is 01:18:56 my life. And it ended not great. Like I'm not proud of a lot of those moments. So I know that I had a lot to figure out and i still do i feel like i'm just working through it pretty fast i think also because this guy is far away i've been able to really process a lot more on my own what what are you proud of when it comes to your last breakup i did cheat on my ex-boyfriend okay um which with him or with someone else no somebody else but it's still it's not something that like i ever saw myself doing it was very much someone who's like oh i would never do such a thing and then when it happened i took like a hard stop and looked at like myself and how that even came to be and the relationship and i think a lot of where i've come from is that i had to like just accept that

Starting point is 01:19:45 that relationship wasn't perfect there were so many flaws within it and i really see how i kind of got to that point on a personal level with like my confidence and the way that i was looking at everything uh so that's why i was hard stop. I can't date anyone right now. That makes sense. And do you feel like you're at a place now, like, let's say you shoot your shot with this guy, you guys start dating, three years from now goes by, all of a sudden turns out a little toxic, you feel ignored, you feel un-invalidated. Do you feel like you're now going to address that and deal with your shit in that relationship before you find comfort somewhere else? A hundred percent. I think that a large part of me processing that breakup was kind of unpacking what got me to that point. Like,

Starting point is 01:20:35 how was I feeling unpacking the problems in the relationship and kind of why that even felt like an option to me, why I felt like I needed to do it, how I got to feeling that way. And a big part of what I'm doing now is kind of trying to like be able to see those signs in real time instead of just looking back and being like, oh, I see it now. But kind of practicing actually feeling that way and noticing that that's what it is. And then also would like to practice speaking up and doing something about it. and then also would like to practice speaking up and doing something about it. Great. And why do you feel like this guy is someone that you want to shoot your shot with? Like, you know, he is long distance.

Starting point is 01:21:14 How long distance? It's three hours. Driving? By car. Okay, it's not that bad. Yeah. Yeah, so why do you think he's worth it? It's not that bad. None of us drive, so it's...

Starting point is 01:21:23 Wait, none of you drive? Neither of you drive? No, so it would. Neither of us drive, so it's... Wait, neither of you drive? No, so it would be like a train or a bus kind of situation. Why don't you drive? We're both from the city, and it's just... Don't really get... Yeah, that makes sense. Like East Coast? Yeah, you Midwesterners are like

Starting point is 01:21:39 licensed, ready to go. Yeah, when I moved to Chicago, I got rid of my car and didn't miss it at all. I hear you. I get it. it yeah i've never felt like yeah all right but whatever you can do but he also doesn't drive so we have that in common but also i yeah it's crazy that it sounds so weird but it kind of snuck up on me and that's almost kind of what i like about it like i wasn't trying to make him like me or trying to get along or trying to like force anything which I feel like I've done a lot I have like in the back of my mind I hope this person likes me but we just kind of really get along and like I understand him so much more

Starting point is 01:22:17 when he talks and we've talked a lot about like life and what we want and how we see things and I think the fact that we both come from divorced households has really felt good in a way that I didn't realize it would. I'd never dated anybody who had similar experiences in that way. It's just easier to talk to. And I hate kind of that I like him as much as I do because it really complicates my entire life right now. But I do. Why does it complicate your life because now i have this to deal with what do you mean i didn't like him isn't it fun

Starting point is 01:22:51 and exciting to like someone yeah no i'm having a blast like genuinely like i really like him so i'm like oh my god but i i think about him talking to other people and i just don't like it and i think about only wanting to talk to him i don't even want to talk to other people and I just don't like it. And I think about only wanting to talk to him. I don't even want to talk to other people. I feel like I know that I'm ready to date him. Obviously, there's still more we need to learn about each other. We're not going to get married. But I just feel like I'm ready to take that kind of a step in our relationship, even if he's three hours away. So yeah, you should definitely not wait. You've heard me say that I think it's the person who knows what they want,

Starting point is 01:23:29 the responsibility to communicate that with someone. Sounds like you're pretty clear that you know what you want. And you want a shot at getting to know him better. You want a shot at figuring out if there's something there. And you know that you're willing to, you know, have this long distance relationship because why not? You know, it's hard to make connections have this long distance relationship because why not you know it's hard to make connections with people it is only a train ride away technology makes it

Starting point is 01:23:50 super easy to like stay in touch and facetime and things like that and while it's not super convenient uh if it's if you're if it's worth it then you'll make it work how old are you again 23 23 how old is he 22 okay i wish he was a little bit older but whatevs yeah uh i think i'm just scared that like my expectations of him are gonna change maybe like dating might like now you're only 23 he's only 22 you at least need to like accept the fact that you both might not fully know what you want for the rest of your lives you know know, if this was 1970, I would be like, Hey, you know, it's time to get fucking married or something, but it's not 1970 anymore. And unfortunately, or fortunately, I don't know. I don't know if it's good or bad, but like,

Starting point is 01:24:34 we're all kind of maturing a little later in life and less is asked of us as teenagers and early adults in terms of, you know, our responsibilities. And we're giving the patience and grace to figure things out later in life. And it wouldn't be a shock to me if both of you, you know, date for a couple of years and break up, deal with some heartbreak at 25, 26, and then, you know, marry someone else. I don't know. I can't predict the future. You know, I don't know if at your age or me saying this, like what that sounds like to you or, um, if you like hearing that, but I wish when I was your age, not to sound like the, like an old guy, or I wish I was just more chill and open-minded about where my life could go. And I wish I would just have been more willing

Starting point is 01:25:28 to take more risks, try things out, be more adventurous, be okay with things not working out, not being afraid of rejection or disappointment or failure, and just say to myself, I'll figure it out. I will figure it out one way or the other. Shit's going to happen. I'll deal with it. I'll learn from it. I'll reflect, but I'm not going to be scared to act. And I think that's the mentality you should try to have. And so I don't know what's going to happen with you and this guy. You don't know what's going to happen with you and this guy you don't know what's going to happen you know slightly more about him than i do as a 22 year old man he's got 22 years of life that you have to learn about him you know but you get what you know you know what i'm saying and as close as you are and as much as you feel like you know so much about him you don't

Starting point is 01:26:21 and he and and that's exciting now you guys, that's something you guys will get to do if you guys continue to talk and date, but don't psych yourself out about the future. Who knows what the future holds? So yes, you should shoot your shot and how you should do it. I need, you need to do it. If you've ever listened to me talk, you need to do it with confidence and you need to tell him exactly what you want and you can be like I know you say you don't do long distance but let's let's stop kidding ourselves like we're already doing long distance and if we like each other enough

Starting point is 01:26:52 we'll make it worth it and I think you're worth it so are you willing to do this with me or not some version of that you should be pretty fucking direct to the point where he's almost like oh whoa jeez just calm down you know and then he's almost certainly oh whoa geez just calm down you know and and then he's he's almost certainly going to turn you down at first 50 50 he's going to give you the whole like

Starting point is 01:27:12 i don't do long distance he is going to try to maintain what you have without without agreeing to you having more expectations of him because that is unfortunately the world we live in right now and until we make people change they're not going to change. And I would be shocked if he is going to agree to giving up his freedoms as a single man all while... Because right now he already has access to you. He gets to talk to you. He gets to fool around with you. He gets to reach out to you when he needs to.

Starting point is 01:27:41 You're going to answer the phone and vice versa. And you're going to have to prove to him that you're willing to give him up if you don't get what you deserve in a committed relationship. So tell him what you said to me. This is, I think I like you. I hope that's not a surprise. And I want to see where this can go. And I want to commit to you. I don't want to date anyone else. I don't want you to date anyone else. And I know I don't care that we're long distance. I want us to date.

Starting point is 01:28:12 I think we're great together. You make me feel this. You make me feel that. I hope you feel the same about me. And I'm going to be super bummed if you tell me no. But if you do tell me no, this has to stop. And you need to follow through with that. And then you stop taking his calls. Assuming he turns you down. You don't reply. You don't

Starting point is 01:28:31 reach out to him when you're missing him. You mute him on social media or block him. Muting is, I like muting. So it doesn't seem like you're getting his attention, so to speak. And then you see if he comes around and you say, don't reach out to me unless you change your mind. Yeah. I think it's the whole, like, I genuinely need to mean it when I say, this is what I want, or bust. Yes. Because if you don't,

Starting point is 01:28:56 then you lose your credibility. Now, that being said, you'll get a couple, like, cracks at the back. Like, you know, Natalie tried it a couple times, and I'm just too hard to resist. But eventually, she got the guts. You know what I'm i'm saying like it's an imperfect science you know like you don't get one the truth is you don't get one shot at this but it won't work until you actually do have the guts to walk away i think also i do think i'm gonna give him this speech whenever i can get him on the phone next but the long distance portion is also so short-lived like he graduates in may and moves

Starting point is 01:29:27 back home and then we're in the same town yeah so is it worth it for me to mention and be like and the long distance thing is kind of such an excuse it's ridiculous or do i just like leave that i mean you you can either dress it head on like i said and just call it out before you even have a chance to make an excuse. Or you can wait to see if he makes an excuse and then say he's an idiot. I've said that before. It'll be fine. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:29:54 But at the end of the day, what it's about is you being confident that you think this is a good choice for the both of you. And regardless of what he wants, you know that you want it. Yeah. And it's about you being confident in your feelings and you being confident that if he doesn't want what you want, you have no problem moving on. You'll be sad, you'll be disappointed, you'll be heartbroken, but you'll also be fine. But what you won't do is waste your time on people who aren't willing to prioritize you and are interested in getting to know you. And if he can't stop,

Starting point is 01:30:27 you know, hooking up with some women while he gets to know you, then you're not, he's not, you know, you're not worth it to him or vice versa. You know what I'm saying? Yeah.

Starting point is 01:30:36 He did make a comment to me at one point and he was like, I just want you to know I'm not talking to anybody else. Cause I don't like, great. He said the words, I don't morally feel good doing that. If I'm talking to you, he's like, you don't have to do the same. But so it sounds like he likes you.

Starting point is 01:30:49 So maybe he won't, you know, maybe he won't turn. You don't. I don't know. But just be prepared that he will. Because I just feel like he would have asked me by now because I've just made it so clear that I really like him. And he said that to me. But it's like, what are we like waiting for?

Starting point is 01:31:03 And I don't want to sit in this like limbo for, I've been in this for like two months and that already feels long enough. Because it's fun to flirt. It's fun. I was talking to a buddy who just started dating someone. Good looking cat, you know, has no problem getting women, finally in a relationship. And he's like, yeah, fuck man. It's like, as soon as I get in a relationship, all these like hotties come out of the woodwork you know and like that's he's it's relationships are about

Starting point is 01:31:28 sacrifice and finding out whether you are worth it to him and that's what it's all about because otherwise like who gives a shit does it really matter all the shit you share or care about if he's not willing to give up hooking up with and flirting with other women but like as a 22 year old guy it makes sense that he enjoys flirting and going out and having his freedom and having his cake and eat it too and you're here to say well if you want access to me you don't get to do that and he gets to decide whether you're worth it and he may decide as a 22 year old guy like hey i like you and all but like i just want to be 22 and single But you'd only be fucking with your emotions

Starting point is 01:32:07 if you tried to pretend that you could do that because you know you like them and it's obvious. Yeah, I think that's why I need to do something now because I'm just putting myself in this position to be so hurt and sad until I say something. So now is as good a time as any. I wouldn't wait. I would just do it as

Starting point is 01:32:25 soon as possible just make it clear i'm not saying we get married i'm not even like i don't need you to call me my boyfriend today but i what i want from you is like i want us to commit to like seeing if this can work and i want to know that you want to try this out and i would i just i really really like you and i run i want to keep getting to know you and that's it. And maybe a month from now we'll break up. I don't know. I don't know what the future is going to hold for us, but like, I'm willing to try it out when I'm willing to, you know, get my heart broken, but we should at least try just that confidence. I say it all the time, but like the more confident you sound like you're going to be fine either way, the more he'll be scared that he won't be fine without you.

Starting point is 01:33:08 Yeah. And I do feel like I'll be okay either way. Yeah. So make that very clear to him. I got it. Okay. He's already a little scared of me. So there you go.

Starting point is 01:33:19 It'll be good. All right. Well, good luck. Please keep us posted. Thank you so much. Yeah. I'll let you know. All right. Promise. Yeah, of course. Okay. All right. Well, good luck. Please keep us posted. Thank you so much. Yeah, I'll let you know. All right. Promise? Yeah, of course. Okay. All right. Talk soon.

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Starting point is 01:36:55 And the best part, it's also fun to open. I'm sleeping on the Moonlight mattress. Natalie and I are sleeping on the Moonlight mattress, if you care to know. It's an incredible mattress. We love it. Helix is offering 20% off all mattress orders and two free pillows for our listeners. Go to helixsleep.com slash V-I-A-L-L. This is their best offer yet, and it won't last long. With Helix, better sleep starts now. How's it going? All right. Hi, my name's Grace. I'm 21, and my parents think I should break up

Starting point is 01:37:22 with my boyfriend after I graduate college and I don't know if I should. Okay. How much are your parents driving this and how much are you also thinking about ending it regardless of what your parents think? I want a lot more freedom than I feel like my boyfriend would be able to provide me after I graduate college? Well, so my boyfriend right now is working not the most financially stable job. He's working paycheck to paycheck right now. Since he's not going to college and he's not really into getting a higher education, he just hasn't been putting much time into planning out a good financial future for himself. And I've never wanted to stay in my hometown. And I think he's kind of stuck

Starting point is 01:38:05 living here for the rest of his life. I'm a nursing major. So I decided I wanted to go into nursing because I wanted a little more freedom, like where I want to live geographically after I graduate. I never wanted to settle down here, but I don't think he really has the option to move like I would. And my parents don't really want me to have financial issues like they've struggled with i mean what does he do is he going to college no no what's he do he works on a line at like a a new um electric car truck company that came into town how old is is he? He's 21. Gotcha. Or 22, actually. I know this is what he's doing now, but, I mean,

Starting point is 01:38:48 not that this really has anything to do with your question. Like, you know, if you want to pass this information along to him, you're welcome to. But, like, I don't know what he's capable of. I get what he's doing right now is pretty limiting, but, like,

Starting point is 01:39:00 he can get a different job somewhere else. You know, he's only 21. You know, you's only 21. You know, you can reinvent yourself. I know. Multiple times.

Starting point is 01:39:08 That being said, not really the point of the call. Listen, this is silly. I think you should base your decision off of, and it sounds like you are like, you know, you're only 21.

Starting point is 01:39:17 What do you want to do with your life? Also like, why do you have a boyfriend? Um, I love him. Okay. I like he, yeah,

Starting point is 01:39:25 I love him. He's, I he, yeah, I love him. He's, I think, especially at like our age, it's kind of hard to find someone who's genuine. Yeah. And he's one of the most caring and selfish people I've ever met. So, and I know I'm so young, but I think I've just seen a lot of bad relationships in high school, throughout college. So you have a good relationship? Yeah. Okay. We you have a good relationship? Yeah. Okay. We have a very solid relationship.

Starting point is 01:39:47 How aware is he of your hopes and dreams as an individual? He's known since the day we got together, basically. That what? So he's known that I've been wanting to leave town. Okay, so he knows. Great. And how supportive of those dreams do you feel like he is? I feel like he's supportive, but he also feels limited and like he can't really like move with me anywhere.

Starting point is 01:40:18 Why not? I kind of don't think he wants to leave. Okay. So we grew up in the same hometown. I go to school in my hometown and that's where we met. And I don't think he really wants to leave. We grew up in the same hometown. I go to school in my hometown and that's where we met. I don't think he really wants to leave his family. I am perfectly fine leaving my parents

Starting point is 01:40:33 and both my siblings are off doing their own thing. I'm pretty secure moving hours away and I don't think he wants to do that. Life's a choice. You're going to have to decide how, you know, meaningful this relationship is. It would be perfectly understandable for you to just say,

Starting point is 01:40:53 listen, I'm 21. I have no interest in getting married for the foreseeable future. I'm not sure what your interest in having kids are, if it's on your radar, but again, it would be perfectly normal and understandable if it's just not on your radar. But right now, you are interested in seeing the world and living in new cities and being adventurous and seeing where life takes you. And regardless of what you think of him as a person in your relationship, you realize that

Starting point is 01:41:20 your personal goals right now are the priority. And you at least want to be honest with him about that because for the next couple of years, you just want to focus on those personal goals and it would be selfish of you to be in a relationship. And so therefore, you should break up. Totally understandable. If that's what you decide to do, I would be like, you know, as a friend, big brother, whatever, I'd be like, makes sense. On the flip side, you know, if this is truly a healthy relationship regardless of your age you know and you really appreciate him as a person you know you could thread the needle so to speak maybe there's a middle ground you could say hey listen you know

Starting point is 01:41:55 i've always you've always known i wanted to i don't want to end up here and if i end up here i don't want to end up here having at least seen other parts of the world. If I end up here after living in a different city or two, then so be it. But I need to see, I want to see the world and I want to move out of the nest. I want to live away from home. And I love you and I love being with you and I'd love for you to be a part of that. But at the same time, obviously I know that you don't want to leave, but also you're not entirely sure you think, so maybe you should just kind of check in there and actually have him say that. And again, he can leave and move back.

Starting point is 01:42:34 And I know maybe the hard part, I'm guessing, where he's at is that he probably makes decent enough money for his age, given the work that he's doing. But there's just probably not an upward mobility for him you know like you know he's probably part of some union and maybe he'll eventually become sort of like shift manager and manager but you know there's a limited amount of earning potential which in this small town maybe is totally nice to have a high quality life yada yada but you want more for yourself and you're just going to have to get on the same page of what you guys want for each other but he can

Starting point is 01:43:09 certainly quit his job he could move to any city that you want and at a minimum get like a bartending job or a server job and he could go back to school and there's a million things for him to try so i don't know what the future is going to hold for you two. But being 21, you have the benefit of saying, I don't know. And that's okay to not know because I don't know what the future holds. But I want to be with you. And I do know we have a good relationship. So, you know, you could see if he's willing to be adventurous with you. Okay.

Starting point is 01:43:39 So I guess another thing I should add is that, I mean, not that this is like forever limiting, but he did buy a house no you can rent it out so what yeah i yeah great now he has a nice revenue stream now he's an entrepreneur great amazing i just don't see like he doesn't have that drive and i don't think he has it in himself really i don't think he has that of, he wants to be like more of a nature guy. And he's tried like different jobs and stuff, like online and things like tried learning coding and none of it's panned out. Like I just,

Starting point is 01:44:14 I don't really see the work ethic. I know, but I mean, listen, you know him. I don't know. Like I, and that,

Starting point is 01:44:20 and the fact that maybe, maybe he's good, not great for you. Maybe he is a really sweet guy, but maybe you want more for yourself. Again, totally understandable. Maybe you realize that as someone that is more driven and more adventurous, that as great as he is, you want someone who matches it a little bit better. But at the same time, maybe he balances you out.

Starting point is 01:44:38 Maybe another person who is just as driven as you, you might not feel like that relationship is as healthy as you have right now you know it's life's all about finding balance so right now what you need to do is stop guessing what you think he wants and just have a conversation with him about how you're feeling it's like you told him when you first started dating that you wanted to move but i don't know how many times you guys checked in with each other between now and then i mean i know you're saying he'd get a new job. He can get a new job. But he he could like rent out the house, I guess.

Starting point is 01:45:12 I didn't really think about that. But he keeps saying that he's going to be stuck in there for another two years. There's a lot of things when you're younger, you feel like things aren't it's not possible. And you maybe, you know, you don't know because you don't know, you know, like. I didn't know a lot when i was 21 you probably know more than i did when i was your age but like i hope that you have a lot to learn you know and you guys will figure it out all i am saying is right now you keep saying things like i i think of this about him i'm guessing this about him you know i stop guessing and find out, just talk to him. There's no wrong. Just say, Hey, listen, like I still like, yeah, I want to Nashville, Austin, Texas,

Starting point is 01:45:50 New York, Chicago. I don't know. But like, I don't want to live here right now. I may end up here. I don't know, but I'm going to not, I am going to move somewhere at least for a period of time because i've always wanted to do that it's super important to me and yeah i i know we've talked and you i know you've made a house but at the end of the day i'm saying this is something i'm going to do this is not an if it's a win but i want to talk to you about what are we doing he literally asked the question if you're going to move to nashville then what are we doing? He literally asked the question, if you're going to move to Nashville, then what are we doing? Well, let's have a conversation about what we're doing. And just like two adults, because you're both adults.

Starting point is 01:46:30 I know I say you're young, but you're an adult, you know, as an adult, you can have this conversation with each other and you can figure it out and be like, I love you. I think we have a great relationship. And honestly, I just want to make it clear that like, I'm so appreciative of what we have. But as a 20 year old, year old woman with a lot of hopes and dreams, I am not willing to give up on those hopes and dreams to just start my life and know that the rest of my life is just sitting here living in this small town. I'm not yucking your yum. I'm not judging you.

Starting point is 01:47:01 But I don't want that. If you would love to come with me, that would be great. And if you don't, I don't know, maybe we try long distance. I'm not telling you to do that, but I'm just saying, have a conversation with him. And you might come to the same conclusions then after our conversations that you have now. He might say like, listen, I'm just never going to move. And you're going to be like, well, I am. And then maybe you guys say, all right, well, if that is what makes us feel, then maybe we should break up, but just talk to him about it, figure it out together. You know,

Starting point is 01:47:28 there might be some tears and anger and sadness, but you have the right to follow your dreams. He has a right to be stubborn and follow his, you know, but as far as his work ethic and things like that, instead of, you know, just find out, find out if he's willing to take a risk with you. And if he's not, that'll give you the answer you want that you're looking for. You know?

Starting point is 01:47:52 I don't know. I just like, I've been thinking about it for like a long time. If you want to break up with him, break up with him. Also, because like, if you don't have the conversation with him,

Starting point is 01:48:01 even if it's true, he can deny it. What I mean by that is you might say, okay, you call him up. Hey, listen, I think we should break up. He's going to be devastated. And when we're devastated, we start like, oh my God, have you ever, I don't know. I don't know if you've ever had your heart broken before. But let me tell you, if you do, you will start saying that you're willing to do a bunch of

Starting point is 01:48:23 shit that you were never willing to do you know because all you want is that fucking pain to go away he'll be like i'll live on fucking mars you know he might say a bunch of crazy shit you know he might not but anyone listening they know what i'm talking about so before you just like break up with them and tell them well you were never willing to move you were were never going to do that. And that's why we're breaking up. And then he can be like, well, you never asked. Just talk to him about it. If you break up, you deserve to have an amical breakup. And despite the difficulty of that conversation, you both deserve to just talk through and be two mature adults and talk about your differences and your similarities

Starting point is 01:49:05 and how you can make this work or just come to a conclusion despite the love for each other that right now, maybe this relationship isn't what's best for the both of you. Maybe you'll return. Maybe you'll get back together.

Starting point is 01:49:16 But right now, it would be selfish and self-centered of you to try to make this relationship work or for the both of you knowing that you have some individual hopes and dreams that you know for a fact that you want to do okay so that's what i think you should do

Starting point is 01:49:31 just talk to him okay tell him what you want to do check in with him don't assume ask okay and challenge him to be honest with you and challenge each other to have the difficult and awkward conversations and let him know how appreciative you are of everything that you guys have shared together. But at the end of the day, this is something you guys need to figure out because you're at you're about to graduate. You're about to make some pretty significant choices in your life. Those choices are going to matter. So make sure that you're making them with a clear mind and talk through it. making them with a clear mind and talk through it.

Starting point is 01:50:12 I think that's another thing I'm really worried about, like ending, um, like a good relationship in the middle of my senior year. I'm nervous about like making decisions based on like my sadness, I guess. I don't know if that makes any sense. Like, I feel like I'm going to go into a depressive state because I don't know. It's weird to break up because of circumstances. I mean, you're, you're not broken up yet. So, oh yeah, I know. But, but I just, what you need to do is find out exactly where you two are in your relationship and you need to include your hope your immediate hopes and dreams because you know you want to do that like you don't need to necessarily break up i mean again like you know you're not moving yet so there's no point in not having each other and you're like how long you've

Starting point is 01:50:56 been dating uh almost three years three years so like is is still hanging out and be it's already it's already going to be hard you're going to miss him when you move. That's a guarantee, right? So yeah, there's no point in breaking up now. Well, see, okay. Is that selfish? I feel like that's selfish. Give him an option.

Starting point is 01:51:15 If he wants to break up with you based off of you being honest with your choices, hey, I know I'm going to move. It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when. And just so you know, I just want to be upfront with you about that. And if he wants to say, well, then we should break up now, then so be it. And then instead of you panicking and saying, oh, just wait, I'll quit. Again, you're

Starting point is 01:51:34 just going to have to trust the fact that it's going to be fine. It's going to be scary. Yeah, you'll miss him. This is a part of life. And you're going to meet a lot of guys in Nashville or Chicago, wherever you're at. And yeah, you might meet a couple of fuckboys and shitheads in between now and when you meet your next guy, or maybe it's going to be him, but you'll figure it out. You'll figure it out. And I'm not going to say it's always going to be happy and you won't be sad, but you'll figure it out and just trust that you'll figure it out and it's going to all be okay. And you should be super excited that you are an ambitious person who has the ability to move and travel

Starting point is 01:52:12 and you've invested in yourself and you're about to graduate. And just tell yourself it's okay to be sad, but it's not the end of the world. I'll get through it. The biggest mistake I made when I was your age is act like everything was the end of the world. I'll get through it. You know, the biggest mistake I made when I was your age is talk like, act like everything was the end of the world. I'll never get over this because it kind of felt like I wouldn't get over it. But instead of like, I made a bad situation worse

Starting point is 01:52:33 by telling myself shit I knew nothing about, you know, and I acted like everything was the end of the fucking world. So I promise you it's not the end of the world. And you know, you don't know what the future holds and maybe you guys will get back together. But I just think what you should do is talk to your boyfriend of three years and just be honest and check in with each other about what you guys want as individuals over the next two or three years. And just acknowledge that if they don't line up, that's something you guys can't ignore and you can't make him move and he can't make you not move. And it's, and if you guys care about each other you will at least respect that the other person has different hopes and

Starting point is 01:53:09 dreams that you guys have instead of making each other feel bad or guilty about those individual hopes and dreams and instead of judging each other just accept that you had a good run and at least for the time being you need to say goodbye and you know you've heard the whole corny phrase if you love something let it free and see if it comes back. And you guys have to see if you find your way back to each other, you know?

Starting point is 01:53:28 Okay. Be excited that you have so many possibilities the way your life can turn out. And that's fun and exciting and a little scary, but it should be more fun and exciting.

Starting point is 01:53:37 Yeah. Okay. Just talk to him. I don't know when... Okay. You know what? Okay. Well, what? Okay. Well, it's just like, it's a weird time right now.

Starting point is 01:53:51 Well, don't do it right now, maybe. I don't know. Well, then I just say, okay. Then I feel like I have something in the back of my head, and I feel like, I kind of feel like a bitch. Because I feel like I'm holding something back from him for months, weeks. There will never be a good- I don't know if I'm going to talk to him about it.

Starting point is 01:54:05 There's never going to be a good time. I know. I knew you were going to say that, but do I really do it like over? Over what? Like Thanksgiving, Christmas. Yeah. I don't know. You're not breaking up with him.

Starting point is 01:54:19 You're just saying, hey, we need to talk. You know? Do you graduate in December or do you graduate in April? I graduate in May. May. Yeah. May, April. I don't know.

Starting point is 01:54:30 I just feel like weird having like one foot in, one foot out. But I don't know. I don't know if it'll end up being that way, but I don't, I don't know.

Starting point is 01:54:41 I guess I just have to talk to him. You just do. And I'm sorry, but it's a part of life. You just got to deal with your shit. I know. just have to talk to him. You just do. And I'm sorry, but it's a part of life. You just got to deal with your shit. I know. You got to get good at it. Because the opposite is just avoiding it

Starting point is 01:54:51 and putting it down and making excuses for yourself. And then you become the ghoster or the cheater and things like that. Because people who ghost and people who cheat and things like that, they do it for a lot of reasons, right? But sometimes it's just simply people who just got really good at making excuses of why it's not the good time to have a tough conversation.

Starting point is 01:55:08 Instead of having the tough conversation, they just kind of live their life as if like that person will just figure it out. Yeah. So you're going to have to get good at having these types of conversations and there's never going to be a good time, but you're just going to have to do it. Okay. Maybe you guys come to a temporary decision that, hey, this is a tough reality. I don't want to lose you yet. He doesn't want to lose you.

Starting point is 01:55:32 I'm not moving anytime soon. But just so you know, come April, this is another conversation we're going to have to have. But maybe over the holidays, we'll just stay together. I don't know. That's so weird. Why is it that weird? Why is it that weird?

Starting point is 01:55:43 I don't know. Because it feels like... Again, maybe I'm just talking as the old guy, but you know what's weirder? And everyone's so weird. Why is it that weird? Why is it that weird? I don't, because it feels like. Again, maybe I'm just talking as the old guy, but you know what's weirder and everyone's done it? It's like they break up and then they keep hanging out and they keep having sex and they keep acting like boyfriend and girlfriend, but like they know they can't be together. Listen, you guys will find your way back to each other, you know, like or not, but like it's not that weird. You just have to talk and communicate. And if he says, Hey, I just can't do this. I can't, I can't keep hanging out with you, knowing that we're not going to work out. Then maybe you guys decide to have some time apart

Starting point is 01:56:16 and separate. This will be difficult. There is no way to deal with this decision easily. And you know what? The good news is because you have built something that matters to you. Yeah. And at least that's the good thing. I know, but it just gets thrown away. Like, it's just so weird. You know, it's not thrown away.

Starting point is 01:56:36 I don't know how you're, you know, I don't know what memory this guy's going to have in your life. Maybe he will be your future husband and the father of your children. Or maybe he'll be a distant memory. I don't know what the world has for you. But life is going to only get weirder. You're probably right.

Starting point is 01:56:51 No, I know I'm right. Especially for someone like yourself, right? He, you know, wants to live in a small town, wants to have a simple life. You don't want to have a simple life. And the less simple you want it, the more complications. And some of those complications will be fun and exciting and exhilarating, but some of them will also be like fucking shitty and a bummer and shit you're going to have to work through.

Starting point is 01:57:15 And there'll be highs and lows. And now is as good a time to start about working out, dealing with your shit and working through these weird things and working through these weird things and working through these awkward moments because while awkward as they were, as they are that you can, you can, you can work through it. You can communicate. Yeah. The life that you want requires maturity. It requires communication. It requires for you to be a little more thicker skin than most. And that's awesome. And it's, I'll tell you what, it's a fun life that you want for yourself.

Starting point is 01:57:47 And a lot of people, if you have the guts to do it, a lot of people, maybe him, will be jealous of where you're at in 10 years and where he's not. But there's a cost to everything. Yeah, I've never lived far away from home,

Starting point is 01:57:59 so I've also thought, is it just going to pan out really bad and I'm just going to want to come home? Maybe, maybe not. Probably not. When you move, give yourself some grace and time. Give yourself some grace and time to not like it, to feel lonely, to be uncomfortable. It takes time to get to know a city and make it your own.

Starting point is 01:58:17 You can always go back home. Yeah. But talk to him with an open mind. Don't go into that conversation already decided how that's going to turn out. At least give him a chance to surprise you. Okay. And you suggest I have this conversation whenever I want to? Whenever you want.

Starting point is 01:58:36 Between now and when you graduate. Okay. A long time. Yeah, because there's no real you know he kind of knows but I would at least keep communicating with him and maybe

Starting point is 01:58:53 kind of breadcrumb it you know maybe it's not one big conversation maybe kind of keep talking about you moving and then if he's like well what's the point be like yeah we should probably talk about that okay so if you're not gonna bring it up right now just at least don't pretend that or hide the fact away from him that you that these that of what your goals are okay yeah i feel like i've been doing that because don't do that ever since he kind of okay he got upset and then i've

Starting point is 01:59:21 just been like okay i'm gonna stop mentioning it now, I guess. That you can't do. You have to let him be upset. Okay. I'm sorry. Okay. I'll talk to him. No, it's okay.

Starting point is 01:59:35 I need some tough love. I need to know what to do. Okay. Just talk, communicate. You'll work itself out. You're a clearly intelligent and ambitious person you'll figure it out okay all right i'll try my best yeah i know my best you can well i think your best is great so yeah don't lie to me okay i'm not i'm not i'll talk to him all right well

Starting point is 02:00:02 we'll check in with you all right right. All right. Keep us updated. Thank you so much for your time. All right. We will. I will. Happy holidays. Thank you. All right.

Starting point is 02:00:09 Bye-bye. Thank you. You too. Bye-bye. Thanks for listening. Don't forget to send in those questions at asknickatthevilefiles.com. For all things texting, office hours,

Starting point is 02:00:17 mediation, Ask Nick. You know the drill. We'll see you tomorrow. Bye-bye.

The Viall Files - E678 Ask Nick - My Husband Loves Deer More Than Me

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