The Viall Files - E685 Ask Nick Updates Special Episode - Part 15

Episode Date: December 29, 2023

Welcome back to The Viall Files! Today we have another special “where are they now” update show where we give you updates from our past callers to see what’s happened in their situations and relationships since appearing on the show.  We bring on our first caller who had originally called in about a guy friend who was getting a little too close to be ‘just friends.’ Our caller sent a text, and we find out on this call whether he's gay or just friendly. Our second caller first called in because she broke up her engagement, but was missing her ex. We discover how she’s set her boundaries of needing full clarity, and his efforts to hold her back. Our third caller, who we’ve seen many times, first called in for giving too many blowjobs, with no pleasure in return. She updates us on trying to pursue genuine relationships over empty sexual interactions. Oh, and someone has a penis infection?! We also have some written updates - our caller whose boyfriend’s business was ruining her relationship, our caller who’s dating someone her sister had a threesome with, and our caller who’s friend wouldn't stop kissing her baby on the lips.  To catch up on all of these callers original questions please see the show numbers:   Original Episode numbers for callers: Episode 681: Ask Nick with Lewis Howes - She Slept With My Roommate Episode 669: Ask Nick - I Need to Stop a Wedding in 2 Weeks Episode 659: Ask Nick Updates Special Episode - Part 13 (Original appearance on Episode 583 Vanderpump Recap with Gabby Windey)  Original Episode numbers for written updates: Episode 666: Ask Nick - My Gay BFF Is in Love With Me Episode 646: Ask Nick Updates Special Episode - Part 12 (Original appearance on Episode 640 Ask Nick - Everyone Caught Feelings During Threesome) Episode 629: Going Deeper w Teddi Mellencamp Plus Bethenny’s Cause, Scooter Braun’s Loss & Taylor Swift’s “Don't create situations just for the sake of it.”  Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://www.viallfiles.supportingcast.fm  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  To Order Nick’s Book Go To: http://www.viallfiles.com  To advertise on the show, contact [e-mail] or visit https://www.advertisecast.com/TheViallFiles  THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Quince - For free shipping and 365-day returns, go to https://www.quince.com/viall  Drizly - Download the Drizly app or go to https://www.drizly.com. Go-to app for alcohol delivery. Must be 21+, not available in all locations. Rocket Money - Cancel your unwanted subscriptions by going to https://www.rocketmoney.com/viall  Odd Pieces - Head over to https://www.oddpieces.com/viall and treat yourself to an exclusive 15% off with code VIALL. IQ BAR - Our special podcast listeners get twenty percent off all IQBAR products, plus get FREE shipping. To get your twenty percent off, just text FILES to sixty-four thousand. That’s 64000. Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @alison.vandam @dereklanerussell

what's going on everybody welcome back to a new and exciting update special oh valfiles classic Style I hope you had a Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, Hanukkah Kwanzaa, whatever holiday you are celebrating and as you prep for this new year I just want to say Happy New Year I guess also could I just say you know

thanks for listening to the Vile Files what a year we've had it's our best year ever we've had our best year ever for every year that we've ever been to existence and this year is no different and we just want to thank you all. So that's an update from us. We love you. So it was just a hodgepodge of random stuff. Everything from an eyebrow gel that I asked Natalie to recommend to a juicy couture set. How many presents do you get from mom and dad? I don't know. I don't count them. Did you get Natalie stuff? Not yet.

Nick. What christmas is in five days i have a list i have a list what if it's not available that's i have a list i mean there's always you know it'll be fine that would keep me up at night i can't do that i'll survive well should we get a written update we do let's get to our update but once again we just want to say thank you, everyone. It's been a hell of a year. Can't thank you guys enough for being with us this year. It was a wild, wild 2023 for this show, for me.

Exciting things to come. We're going to kick things off with a bang in 2024. Really excited about some of the juicy episodes we're going to bring you. Really kicking things off strong. Really excited about that. Anyways, all right, let's get to our written update as I reminisce about the exciting episodes that I'm not going to tell them about yet. So our first written update is from Melissa, who joined us on episode 666 with the title, My Boyfriend's Job is Ruining Our Relationship. And you had recommended calmly,

you know, expressing her unhappiness in a letter saying that she might have to walk away from the relationship. And we wanted to... Is this with the TikTok that went super viral? I remember 666. Obviously, you know,

it being a weird... There was a lot of good, yeah, content made out of that episode. Was that it, though though i don't know if it was her call all right well let's play a quick update just to remind our audience of uh this caller how's it going my boyfriend's business is ruining my relationship okay uh is he the owner of this business okay he is okay how old is he? 25 as well. Okay. What's the business? Construction. Okay. Well, tell us about some of the challenges that you're facing.

So I just feel like with the business, so we both still live at home with our parents, which is also adding to it. But I feel like I'll never be number one priority. That's kind of like the realization at this two-year mark that I'm coming to is like, I'm worried I'll never be number one priority. That's the realization at this two-year mark that I'm coming to. I'm worried I'll never be number one. And it'll always be about the business. So that concerns me. He doesn't really like to talk about the future. I've told him, what is your timeline for the future? Engagement, kids, where do you even stand with that? And I just get the answer of,

I can't even think about that right now. There's so much other stuff going on. That's not even really on his radar. So that's concerning to me because I'm like, okay, we're two years in. What am I doing here? Because I don't have a job where I go home and think about it. I go to my job, I come home and that's it, the end of the day. And he, I just feel like has a ton of goals, which is fine. I want him to succeed in all of that and I want to support him. But I feel like I have this resentment towards his business because it's just taking up all his time. And I'm like, where do I fit in? I'm guessing you wouldn't feel this way if he somehow made it clear to you that everything he's doing is for the both of you.

Right. And I've told him that. I said it'd be different if we were having conversations. And the conversation was, you know, I'm doing this for us. And I'm doing this for our future kids and our future life together. But the conversations aren't that tone. Yeah. Cause like I work really hard and I'm, you know, there have been times where I'm gone

13 hours a day often, you know, and like at times, you know, I try, it's just a big prior for me to either check in with Nataliealie or include her or bring her along when i can if it makes sense and if nothing else it's always this is for us you know this is i'm trying to this is an us thing you know um yeah and that goes a long fucking way right because i don't feel like i have a reassurance that you'd even see us together long term. On the flip side, you are only 25.

Um, so there is that, but he, yeah, so I guess I'm thinking out loud here, but it's, it's not, regardless of your age,

it's not fair to you to be in a two-year relationship with zero answers about what the future looks like. Right. And I'm not asking for an engagement tomorrow or anything like that. There's no pressure on that. I just want to know where his head at. And I feel like he's really unwilling to even think about that part of life because he's so business-oriented right now. It's like a horse with blinders on. It's just the business and nothing else. So I think it's hard when we only hang out

on the weekends and then say Sunday comes along and he's like, Okay, I got to go to the office and i gotta do x y and z and like during the week you know he's waking up early which is fine but then like we don't talk until i want to say like 7 8 p.m and then like he's going to bed at like 9 9 30 because he gets up so early so there's no and then why don't you guys live in the same neighborhood like why do you still live with your parents? I'm not, I don't know. I'm not saying that judgmentally, but like that is a choice you're making at 25. Yeah. We both, I think neither of us want to rent because we just feel like at this point,

that'd be like throwing away money. Um, he actually just recently bought a rental house through the business. And I think for me, I have a lot of resentment towards that because I'm like, you could have used that opportunity for us. You could have bought a different house that we could have afforded together. I love that he's driven and I love that side about him. And I think that I feel safe and I feel comfortable and I do feel loved by him. But a lot of the times I'm like, I just don't know if he's showing me in the ways that I need like forever. So I think that's also been something I've been struggling with. When you communicate this stuff to him, how does he respond? Does he always, is it always some version of, I don't have time for this right

now? Um, it's, he's like, I don't really know what you want me to say. That's normally like, he just like, well, that's saying a lot to me. It's like, yeah,

there's a million things you could say. You could say comfort me. Yeah. You could say, babe, you're right. I know. Like if nothing else,

a bare minimum answer from him would be some version of you're right, babe. I know I, I need like, you have a it's valid for you to feel this way i'm just really busy i'm having a hard time managing you know all the things that are going on with the business but like i do want to i like i love you and i it's important for me to make you feel a certain way and i want you to feel x y and z and i'm sorry i'm letting you down right now and can you just be a little more patient with me? Like that would be bare minimum.

Right now, the only thing I have is a weekend boyfriend who really constantly always makes me feel like he doesn't have time for me. Gives me no insight, zero into like what a future looks like for us right now it sounds like he only wants to have a girlfriend for the occasional you know sex and convenience because he doesn't want to like get on the apps right which i think about i'm like if we even like to myself i think this i'm like if we even broke up like he wouldn, like, I know he wouldn't make the time to date somebody else. I mean, there'd just be no way. Yeah. He probably would. You know, and if it would, it would just be very casual. It'd be very meaningless and it would just be something to do and a little bit of free time he has, but he could say, listen, of course I want kids. You know, of course I want to get married,

but we are, babe, we're only 25. And right now, like, I really, I really want to like be successful. And at 25, for someone who's very career driven, this is the time for him to be selfish and to invest in his career. And so, you know, I get that. And if he wants to be in a relationship while all at the same time, selfishly focusing on his career, he still needs to like make some concessions and some choices. So again,

at a bare minimum, he could be like, you know, obviously I want to have kids. Um, I see a future with you. I'm not ready to get married anytime soon. I want to be upfront about that.

But at the same time, I want you to feel like a priority. And I know I times I'm probably going to let you down, but I really want to, it is a priority for me to make you feel this way. And what can we do? He can't a hundred percent of the time just say he's too busy with you for you and give you absolutely nothing when it comes to talking about the future. I think that's my biggest thing is like, you're not like, I don't know. Yeah. It's just like, I don't know anything about like,

I'm trying to plan mine, which obviously I can't plan it right now. I mean either, but like to have an idea and just like open up those conversations and there's just, there's just nothing. I honestly think the only way to save this honestly is probably to break up with them and see if it's a shock to his system. I think before you do that, maybe you got to write him a letter or sit down with him and really articulate how you feel. You have to stay super calm about it and just kind of like, hey, listen, man, I care about you.

I love you. I want to see you happy. I know. I understand that right now, at this point in your life, that your business, your number one priority, I get all that. But you are asking me to stay in this relationship with absolutely no guarantees, no information, nothing. And that's just not fair to me. And if you can't give me that, I understand. But if that's where you're at, I can't be in this relationship.

And I just, you know, you, I can't, you can't ask me to invest in you and get nothing in return. Yeah. And see what he says. Quite honestly,

maybe the answer is, is he's not in a position to be a boyfriend right now. He needs to believe that you're capable of being fine without him. if he's not willing to step up and give you what you need, because he is assuming you're just going to sit around. It's kind of a game of chicken right now. Yeah. He's going to have to really believe that he lost you and he's going to have to fight for you to have you back in his life. And you're going to have to really believe it. And as busy as he is, there is a way for him to make it work with you if you really wanted to.

Right. And he might just, the only excuse I will give him is that maybe he's just, you know, he is trying to accomplish a lot at a young age and it might just be too much for him, you know? Yeah. And it's not a fault. I'm not judging him, but he needs to, he needs to recognize that he is falling short as a partner that he should want to be a better partner in the future. All right. What do they

have to say? Melissa writes. So a couple of days after I talked with Nick, I actually ended the relationship. I think talking with you guys just really reinforced what I've been thinking for a while. And I already had my thoughts gathered on what I wanted to say. We met up for dinner and then had an hour long convo in the car after where I just explained how I was getting no reassurance from him and waiting around for him to start the next chapter of my life. I left the convo open, seeing what he would say to my thoughts. And he agreed. He said the relationship wasn't fair to me anymore and that his job doesn't allow him to be a great boyfriend. He didn't try to fight for the relationship or say things would change, so we ended with love and no hard feelings. We talked for a few days after, but since then have been no contact.

Honestly, it's been such a relief to be single. I was on the apps for maybe about a week, but it was too overwhelming, so I'm taking time just to enjoy this season of life. I've learned I'm a little emotionally exhausted from trying to make everything work in my relationship, so moving forward, I don't have the energy yet to put into dating, which I'm okay with. Someone will come at the right time

and give me all the things that my ex was lacking. Breaking up took the pressure off feeling like I needed to get engaged, married, have kids at this age, and to just live my life without that weight on me. So thank you, Nick and the rest of the ViFi team for helping me confirm what I wanted to do and to make the final decision to be single. Okay. Well, I mean, sad, but great update.

Clarity. It doesn't seem like she's sad. I think she feels really reassured in her decision. Every relationship is sad when it ends, great update. Clarity. It doesn't seem like she's sad. I think she feels really reassured in her decision. Every relationship is sad when it ends, but yeah. It looks like she needed the motivation to end a relationship. And we, like, so many before her, we gave her that motivation. But I just feel like sometimes you need that external almost confirmation of what you feel like you're feeling inside. Like when you go to McDonald's and you're like, do I want chicken nuggets or a hamburger?

And then you're like, what should I get? Your friend is like chicken nuggets. You're like, yes. Or if they said burger and you're like, oh, no, I'll ask someone else. Oh, OK. Yeah, I get what you're saying. What is next for her? I think just enjoying this season of life doesn't sound like she wants

to be on the dating apps right now i'm glad that she listened to herself and didn't just like keep pushing that pressure because i do feel like i don't know at least like for me i've had a lot of questions in the holiday season people know i'm moving it's like well how's dating going are you seeing anyone no well are you on the apps like that's like been everyone's follow-up question it's just like i i want it to become a little bit more socially acceptable to not like, feel like you have to have a part-time job of dating. Like, I feel like every person follows up with, Oh, you're not seeing anyone. Are you trying, are you on the apps? Like whatever, like it's a lot. I just, uh, are you ever making comments about being single?

No. Like these are like, again, just like holiday party conversations that have popped up. Like, are you seeing anyone? Have you been, and I'm like, no, not at all. Well,

are you on the apps? Yeah. I think that just kind of often comes with people's natural questions. Sometimes it'd be like, oh yeah. Are you seeing anyone? No, honestly,

just busy with some, I got so much going on right now, moving work, like a bunch of stuff and projects like oh my god it wouldn't even have time for that you know like as if like oh it sounds fun but wish i had time because but i have so many other exciting things going on uh well well i think it reduces that you know those follow-up questions as opposed to are you dating anyone no no not you know then and it's like well i mean are you what are you doing like can i help you know it's like i think sometimes people try to be helpful even when that help isn't asked for yeah for sure but yeah it's sometimes how we answer those questions can go a long way all right well we appreciate her update.

Sad that the relationship ended. Happy that she is feeling good about it. Let's get to our first caller. Once again, want to say thank you to you all. Thank you for supporting this show. Thanks for being with us this year, whether you listen to one episode or all of them. I don't know how many episodes we dropped this year. Oh, gosh.

Yeah, a lot. A lot uh 150 something ish 160 yes 170 anyways uh we thank you also because i know you guys love updates we do have an update from our dear lady yeah pun intended our dear friend Our dear friend. Our dear friend. Our dear friend who texted her husband and asked for a divorce while she was on with us because she had not seen her husband in quite some time. We did get an update from her. That update is now available behind Vile Files Plus. Go ahead and check it out. Do we title those?

How would someone go find them? On Vile Files Plus? Yeah. Do we title those? How would someone go find them? On Vile Files Plus? Yeah. So I actually, I wrote the title of the episode and I did make it Our Dear Friend Returns.

Okay, great. Our Dear, go check out that episode. It's named Our Dear Friend Returns. Go to vilefiles.com. It's free to sign up. So if you only want to hear that update, you are welcome to. You get a seven day free trial and, and there's 20-some other update specials, so be sure to check them all out. I know you guys love your updates. All right, I'll stop talking. Let's get to our first update.

Welcome back, Charlie. Hello. Thank you for having me back nick uh thanks for uh joining us so you called in uh it was on the episode with lewis house uh you were crushing on a co-worker ish he wasn't a no He was another journalist in a different town or something. Yes. And you had no idea if he was gay or straight. But you had a handful of interactions where he seemed maybe flirty, kind of breadcrumbing you a little bit. Talked about visiting you, but never really did. Does this all sound accurate? Yes, sounds accurate. Okay.

Let's play a quick clip for our audience. For those who didn't get to listen to that episode with Lewis. How's it going? Hi, Nick. I'm Charlie and I'm 24 and I'm a gay man. And I can't tell if the guy that I like is also gay. Okay. Well, tell us a little bit more. All right. So it all started when I first followed him on Instagram a while ago when I was a senior in college. He announced that he got a job in the same state as me, not in the same city, but in the same state. So he was the only person that I knew from back at home that also got a job in the state. So I stood up and I was like, oh my gosh, congratulations. How cool. From there, we just kind of

kept on DMing back and forth. We started our jobs at the same time. So we'd always post about our jobs. We'd always like just kind of talk about like the industry. In the beginning of summertime, he had reached out to me and was like, Hey, I'm going to be in your city. Would you want to get drinks with me? And I was like, okay, yeah, sure. No problem. And I didn't really think much about it at the time. But then as like the time started creeping up i was like wait is this just kind of like a casual meetup because we're both you know in the same industry or is this kind of like a date and when i met him and the first thing he does is give me a broke lap up and i was like okay yep this guy is straight so what was he doing in your city? Was he like, was it for work? I was just about to get to that.

He was on a friend's trip. Like his friends just took a weekend trip to my city. Eventually that's when I found out that he was here on a weekend trip with his friends. And when we went out, it was a Saturday. So I kind of just think like if you're on a weekend trip with your friends, like Saturday night is like the night when you like do stuff. just think like if you're on a weekend trip with your friends like saturday night is like the night when you like do stuff and um again he has a beach house like in my like hometown so he posted on his instagram story um like a picture of the beach with the location i set up on it i was like hey

i'm like i'm jealous whatever and he was like um i'll bring you back some popcorn because like in our town like popcorn and eventually saltwater taffy are like big deals in our area he was like, I'll bring you back some popcorn because like in our town, like popcorn and eventually saltwater taffy are like big deals in our area. He was like, OK, like what kind? And I was like, I'm just kidding. You don't have to get me anything. So we kind of like left it at that. Now, this sounds very flirtatious. Yeah, that starts to sound a little.

Again, I don't really know. I don't know. And so he later that week, he like text me. He's like, hey, like I'm here at the saltwater taffy place. Like what kind of saltwater taffy do you want? And I was like, I was just kidding. You don't have to get me anything. And he was like, no, like, what do you want?

I was like, I don't even know what kind of flavors they have. They have so many. And he was like a variety pack. It is. And I was like, well, you don't have to do that. There's some, there's a lot's some there's a lot there's a lot of women there's a lot of women out there like listening to this being like i wish the guy liked paid this much effort you know like this much attention and went out of his way you know

later i remembered that i liked yeah right the variety pack i don't want to miss out yeah no exactly and like again like i have I have like straight friends and like, I just feel like that's not usually something like that they would do, or I wouldn't expect them to do that with a woman they're interested in. Yeah. So eventually we go back to just like damning back and forth, like no big deal, just like commenting on like four things.

And eventually we would sometimes like, like continue the conversation. And then he would just bring up like visiting. And I'm like, yeah, like come visit. But then there would just like be like no action. So then eventually a couple of weeks ago, me and my friend, we went to visit this new city that I wanted to explore. And I posted on my Instagram. There's two comments on that post.

And he put three emojis that I was just like, I don't, I don't know what that means. He put the, he put the shocked face emoji, heart eyes, heart eyes. And then yes. And then hand making a heart. And I was like, I don't know what that means. But of course, me being me, I'm like, ah. And so for the rest of the week, I'm like trying to figure out a way that, you know, I can have an excuse to like text this man. And so where are we now? So that was like the last time we talked.

He said happy birthday to me. My birthday was like on Sunday. And he said happy birthday. And like, I was kind of dramatic about it. I was like, I really hope he like says happy birthday and like i was kind of dramatic about it i was like i really hope he like says happy birthday um and literally as i was dozing off into my slumber on the like the last few minutes of my birthday this guy's interesting i get i get i get a text message from him and he says happy birthday and i was like oh thank you so much and then that was it who pays that much attention on birthdays also to be at midnight with a guy?

You know, it's like you don't do that with your girlfriends. Well, it wasn't. I was going to sleep around like 10 o'clock. So it wasn't midnight. It wasn't midnight. But he took the time. He's just very intentional with you. You're not crazy, right? I think Lewis and I agree that you're not crazy to wonder the heart eyes emojis.

You have the right to ask or at least you know put it out there now you might ask and he may say no yeah but that doesn't mean it's not true that he has curiosities or he's gay or he's interested in you he just may be afraid yeah to be vulnerable and open like i also don't know if i'm mistaking like kindness but because he's a very nice person um for like flirting but then my experience i'm like i just feel like i can usually tell but in this instance i just cannot tell whatsoever if your goal is and and lewis asked you what is your goal and you're and you said i just want to find out man where i stand with him if he's into men yes or no and the only way to get a clear answer is just to politely ask. No.

Yeah. And I bet the biggest fear is like the story will end. Yeah. This story that you've been living in for two years is either going to end or evolve in some way. Yeah. And that's, uh, it's almost like a death.

If I have this conversation, this relationship has the potential to die and you don't want that to die because it's interesting. It's curious. It's fun want that to die because it's interesting. It's curious. It's fun. It's scary. It's risky. You're feeling things you've never felt probably.

Or maybe you have and you like them, but it may not be healthy feelings. They may be exciting feelings, but those chemicals may be from a wound rather than from a healed place. And that may be the attraction where you're getting all this like energy and these chemicals and oh what's the emoji you know is he gay is he straight what if he converts from straight to gay for me all these different stories that could be in your mind or maybe not but that's a lot of chemicals but you yeah i mean you're smart you've you've probably fantasized about all these storylines and you've gone to bed and they're like oh my god like what if he did this oh my god

all right well fine is this an active situation it is an active situation yes oh god i'm so i'm so excited but you have to promise if we're gonna draft it you have to promise to send it and you have to show us that you're sending it fine deal yeah do we have your word how would you start okay i want it to be in your like hey so a bit of an odd question but it's been something that i've been thinking about recently okay and i would just like some clarity there you go perfect direct okay yeah. It doesn't have to be some long drawn out. It can be short and sweet. I've really enjoyed getting to know you and talking to you

you guys said? Yeah, whatever you want to say. Our connection or our interactions. Would saying and I'd be lying if I said that I haven't caught feelings. You could do that. Is that good? Yeah, if that's how you feel, I'm fine with it. And then you could say, that

being said, I have really no idea if you're even who you date or if you're even interested in men at all. And I have no expectations. Yeah, I have no expectations, but I just

I wanted to put myself out there and simply just kind of check in. I hope that, you know, and you can kind of finish it how you want. And I appreciate our friendship either way. Yeah. I wanted to be respectful and just be direct and come out and ask you. Yeah. Okay.

That being said, I really have no idea if you're interested in guys at all. Okay. That being said, I really have no idea if you're interested in guys at all. I thought it'd be more, it'd be more mature to just ask, just ask you directly. And regardless, you know, I really value our, and regardless of how you feel, I value our friendship. There you go. Okay. I'm just going to read it one more time before I send it, just to make sure there's no grammar issues. Because if he's not interested, at least my grammar is right. There you go. All right.

So this is a bit of an odd question, but I've been thinking about it a lot and I would just like some clarity. I've really enjoyed getting to know you and I'd be lying if I said that I haven't caught some feelings. That being said, I really have no idea if you're interested in guys at all. I thought it'd be more mature just to ask you directly. I have no expectations. And regardless of how you feel, I value our friendship.

I hope to hear from you. Perfect. Send it. Send it. Okay. We're sending it. Let's see that it's blue. Let's see the blue.

There we go. There we go. Congratulations. That's huge. I'm going to there we go congratulations that's huge you're not you're excited you are not gonna die you did a great thing oh my god buyers you know do treat yourself today okay whatever you do whatever you do to treat yourself all right and we're back all right so we had you send a text, correct? Yes. Can you read that text back to us? Yeah. So the text was, hey, Blink, this is a bit of an odd question, but I've been thinking about it a lot and I would just like some clarity.

I've really enjoyed getting to know you and I'd be lying if I said I haven't caught some feelings. That being said, I really have no idea if you're interested in guys at all. I thought I'd be more mature just to ask you directly. I have no expectations. And regardless of how you feel, I value our friendship and I hope to hear from you. What a nice little message we crafted together. I know. Really, honestly, that message, I was like, chef's kiss. My friends were like, that was a good message. So thank you for helping me. No problem. How did you feel after you sent it? How long did

it take for him to reply? It took exactly one day. One day. Like 24 hours. Okay. No problem. How did you feel after you sent it? How long did it take for him to reply? It took exactly one day, like 24 hours. Okay. All right. And what were you doing in those 24 hours? Honestly. So as soon as I sent it, I had to start getting ready for work and everything. So I was like, you know what? I'm going to drive myself crazy, like seeing if he like answered. So I'm just going to put his notifications on do not disturb that way. I'm like not tempted to look at phone all the time and so i was like you know it's a busy it's a busy news day anyway so like i'll be distracted i won't really have time to think about it yeah so i went to work as usual um it was a busy day so i wasn't really thinking about it as much i was kind of thinking about it wondering if we answered but i was just like you know let me just work today and then we'll check it like later um when i got out of work around like midnight, I saw that he still hadn't responded.

And he I think he works like the same shift as me. So I was like, he probably is also busy. So it's fine. And also I was explaining it to my friends and they were like, yeah, I'd probably take him a little bit to kind of respond to a text message that heavy. I was like, yeah. So the next day I still hadn't gotten a message from him in the morning. So I just was doing my errands. And I remember I was cleaning

my car. And I was actually on FaceTime with my friend kind of telling her like what happened. And then it was funny because my car was on and my phone was connected to my car. So he texted me. And so my car thought I was driving. So it immediately responded saying, sorry, I'm driving at the moment. I can check this when I get to wherever I'm going. Which I think is like the most... It's amazing. No, literally the most aggressive text automatic reply ever. So I saw after I was done cleaning my car, I like oh my gosh wait you responded and I'll read you the text

message it was actually a very very good response um so here it goes he said hey man exclamation point I actually really appreciate the honesty and clarity I know it's not easy but you are right I don't like guys I totally understand

where you're coming from and I don't think this changes much between us I still have lots of love and respect for you okay yeah yeah like literally like well listen listen i think that the best case scenario was he was like i like you too the best case scenario is like hey where can we meet up let's get naked yes exactly i don't know about all that i don't know about all that but best case scenario could have been like I reciprocate feelings but I feel like if he didn't if he like since he is like

is not gay I feel like this was like the best response I was kind of nervous that he was going to be kind of like mean and there was no reason for him to be mean especially after our masterful text message because you know it wasn't we didn't put him on the spot yeah i mean it was just like hey all you really did is flatter him with a compliment

that's true and i was actually really happy with that response i just like loved it and then i told him i was like i really appreciate you giving me some clarity and closure and just like i'm glad this doesn't change anything because i really enjoy our friendship yeah and unless he was like some homophobic guy who got super aggro with the even mention yeah of the curiosity that he might be into men but he must know obviously you're gay and he was spending a lot of time with you so clearly it was always going to be possible for you to be attracted to him and unless you guys you know talked about each other's sexuality it was always going to you know be attracted to him. And unless you guys, you know, talked about each other's sexuality, it was always going to, you know, be possible. So thankfully he is, sounds like a mature, nice guy. And so, yeah, now, you know, but my big question to you is, do you really think that

nothing's going to change? I really listen. I've been listening to your podcast and I think that you say that you kind of just have to take people at like their surface value like if they say something kind of just have to take them at their word so he says that he's not i'm just going to choose to take him at his word okay and you know you know there's nothing i can do at this point um like the ball is in his court whether or not he wants to do anything like that i guess more question for you in the sense that like when you first called there was a lot of confusion at times with his interactions but yes you liked him you know so just like when anyone likes someone there's you you care more you know and so when you're like oh i want them to reach out i want to ask them how i'm doing and i want them to like text me and i want them to like see if he wants

that they want them to take me out or yada yada now that you know that this friendship is just that a friendship and that the whole mysterious all the mystery around like, is he flirting with me or not? Do you think, are you happier in a sense? Because now, how old are you again? 24. 24. Okay. Yeah. But even at 24, I wasn't like, why aren't my buddies texting me back? Right. You know what I'm saying? Yes. It changes. Do you think it changes that that dynamic in a good way?

I guess is what I'm asking. Well, the thing is, like, it's funny, like after he responded, I was like, I felt fine. I wasn't like sad or anything like that. I will say that I I told myself, like, I'm like kind of like on the high of like I have my answer. I'm good. But I was like at one at some point, I'm probably going to feel like a little sad. Um, and so eventually it did kind of get like a little sad about it. And I did find myself being like, Oh, like I'm, I posted something on my Instagram story and I was like, I wonder if he's going to look at it. I'm like, it doesn't even matter anymore. Like I can't

like that, that shit, you gotta get, you gotta cut that shit out. Yeah, exactly. And now I'm happy to say that like now i have posted things and stuff like that and i don't even like look to see who watched it because again the only reason why i was like ever really ever looking to see if anyone watched it was to see if he watched it and it was funny because he did post something like yesterday like a picture i guess he's like back at home and he posted something that looked like it was something that reminded me of home and i feel i feel like before I would have like slid up on it and been like oh my god and like that would have been an interaction I would have been so excited

but I kind of like took like an extra like three seconds like looking at it and I was like should I say something and I was like what are my intentions behind it like am I trying to am I going to slide up because I genuinely just interested in the post, like want to say something and have something to say? Or am I just trying to get my fix of trying to get his attention? Yeah. And I realized that I was really just kind of craving the attention because again, nothing else going on.

And I was like, that's not a good reason to slide up. So I just kept on going and just kind of left it at that. I really, I'm proud of myself for kind of just trying to, being strict to myself on making sure I'm not like moving backwards, just moving forward with my life. All right, man. Well, happy to hear it. Sounds like, you know, progress.

This is all good news. Yeah, not the greatest of news but yeah i think that's the the big thing going forward for you is just kind of like catching yourself in those little moments of why you know what are my intentions here because yeah that will just save you a lot of it will save a lot of energy you know because you obviously spent a lot of energy in the past wondering about this guy and now you don't have to wonder. So don't create situations just for the sake of it that make you wonder. He's your pal. No, exactly. Well, because the other thing too was before that post, a couple of days after I

sent the text message, I was just relaxing at home. And I remember I just went to bed early. I went to bed at like nine o'clock that night. But then the next morning I woke up and I had a text message from him at like 1230, like midnight. And he was asking like randomly, he was like, like, have you heard from our waitress friend, the waitress from the night we went out? And at my first instinct was to like be like, why is he texting me at midnight and about this random thing? why is he texting me at midnight and about this random thing? But then I was just like, you know what? Again,

I can't keep going in circles, thinking about like reasons on why he's reaching out to me. He was probably just genuinely curious on how she's doing. So I was just like, I just answered the question and left at that. So we're, we're doing good. And also I think the timing of everything, like,

I think because it's the end of the year um yesterday i was talking to my friend and she was like we should like write down like a list and of things we're gonna leave in 2023 and i was like you know we're gonna leave like putting all of our energy in boys in 2023 we're gonna 2024 we're going to like focus on career, focus on like hobbies and all this stuff. Cause again, like my contract at my job ends in like five months and I'm like, I have to focus on a bunch of different things instead of putting all my energy and like a boy.

Amazing. Yeah. Just let, let boys. So if y'all hire and let me know, Nick. Okay. All right,

buddy. Charlie, thanks so much for calling happy holidays. Happy new year. Good luck. let boys know. So if y'all are hiring, let me know, Nick, okay? All right. All right, buddy. Charlie, thanks so much for calling. Happy holidays. Happy New Year. Good luck in the new year. And we appreciate the update. Thank you so much, Nick.

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download the drizzly app today or go to drizzly.com. All right, so we have another written update from our caller, Aaron. You might remember Aaron because the tagline was, I had a threesome and everyone caught feelings. Yeah, I remember. How long ago was that?

What episode was that? It was originally on episode 640 and then Aaron joined us for an update classic, which was episode 646. We wanted to know how everything had gone with Nat and Rory and kind of figure out how their how their vibes and dynamics were. Let's play a quick clip. And she wrote in because she was in a threesome where everyone caught feelings. Remember, she her friend caught feelings for her again. She was, she knew, like she was, she, she dated more women than men, but she was.

The friend. Her too, I thought. Right? Did she say she dated more women? She was definitely bi. Yeah. I felt like she leaned more toward, like, I felt like this guy was an outlier. I think the guy was an outlier for the friend,

but they were just fuck buddies. Yes, I think that was the friend. I also remember that the guy, the caller had seen him outside of the threesome and hadn't told the friend about it. She hadn't told Nat that she'd hung out with Rory. Yeah, they started fucking on the side. She says,

I did end up having that tough conversation with nat my friend and we are moving past it with a bit more boundaries in our friendship we are still very close i also brought up the topic of my directness or lack thereof to my therapist and we are working on it she made a good point of me having a fear of male rejection which resonates and feels like a tangible thing I can heal, let go of. I'm grateful to Nick that he pointed that out because my lack of directness bleeds a lot into my life,

not just romantic dynamics. Wait, what did I point out? The fear of rejection. And that she's not very direct. Like, in her mind, it was clear to her that she had feelings for Rory and you were like, it's not clear at all.

I'm sure he's very confused. You're not being very direct. Oh, I see. Yeah, yeah. But she said said i never came clean to rory about my crush he never really came around with any effort and i don't know when i thought about it i realized that i was briefly digmatized and telling myself a story of what he could be rather than taking him for what he showed me he is maybe if we connect again i'll come clean about the potential i thought i saw honestly i was kind of just waiting to listen back for it, for how Nick worded it, so that she could tell him.

Through our words. Girl. Episode 640. She says now eight years single. I think she's chickening out. I do. I think she's making excuses. Well, she said what if she realized she was digmatized and she actually doesn't want to pursue something with Rory. That would have been fine until

She immediately followed it up with but if we hook up again Maybe I'll tell him but she does say Like I got back in my lane and stopped focusing On the boy drama which kind of is a like I Don't know as a way of phrasing it makes it seem like it's not Super impactful Yeah I mean I don't think this is her guy And my insistence

On her saying it Is more like an exercise for her rather than... Like a lesson. Yeah. Just like get good at just being honest with people about your feelings, especially the people you're getting naked with. You know, it's good practice to be open with those people about how you're feeling, however it is you're feeling.

Especially if now she's like, I don't really know if i even want things to go that way with him then there's like no stakes to just be like i kind of had feelings for you i don't know if i do anymore my gut tells me the i don't know if i do anymore is um her trying to read the situation she pointed out that he he's not doing the things you know that you know he's not the if he wanted to he would type of things that make out that he's not doing the things, you know, that, you know, he's not the, if he wanted to, he would type of things that make it obvious. He's not our podcaster. Yeah. He's not going out of his way. And so she is using that to, you know, so now she's just like anticipating the potential rejection. And so she's backed off as a result of that. And she might be

reading the situation correctly, but the point is she doesn't really know. And as someone who's acknowledged and admitted this habit of avoiding upfront communication and just being direct and putting yourself out there and being vulnerable at the risk of being rejected, this seems awfully too similar to this pattern. We're very convincing liars to ourselves. Amanda and I were talking about this after we were recapping episodes one through four of Love is Blind. Like what I love so much about, you know, Love is Blind in general and specifically this season is like, it really shows the subtleties between people's versions of their stories. And when I say no one lies to us, only we lie to ourselves, you have a bunch of people

on Love is Blind, like telling these little slight lies to what really truly themselves, you know, they're communicating to their castmates and things like that about like well i didn't really want them you know or they didn't really want you know it's like we we like to ease the blow of us feeling rejected or or when we feel not enough and my gut tells me is that there's still something there you know if say, well, maybe if we hook up in the future, maybe I'll tell them about the cultural class, tells me there's still something there. And even that something there is to simply say, hey, this is not transactional for me. This is not like us just fucking when we're horny. Like I feel some kind of connection, don't know what

that connection is, but like, I just to be up front about that with you. And that's like healthy communication. And I think our wonderful writer-inner might be talking herself out of healthy communication of what she has a pattern of. And we're very clever liars to ourselves is all I'm saying. So something to consider if you're listening. There is no harm in just putting it out there other than, yes, you know, a little disappointment

potentially. I feel like we have a pretty good track record of challenging people. And we have many people like this. They generally always feel better afterwards. And it's never usually as hard as they anticipated. When was the last time we've challenged someone to speak up and say something? They're like, never fucking again. And I think that's because people know that, you you know you do challenge people or like feel comfortable not

sugarcoating things like i think oftentimes people like kind of seek that out when they call in like they already have that inclination of knowing that they want to be held accountable to do something that's a little more brave or direct or communicative yeah i don't really care about this guy i just care about her ability to feel empowered to communicate how she feels and not kind of jedi mind trick herself into why this you know what i will next time or you know oh this isn't the right time to be communicative or it doesn't i don't really need to right now because that's that's her bad habit she's very good at convincing herself that it's not necessary that help like that direct communication isn't necessary and she's very good at doing that and she's my my my guess is she's doing it here a little bit totally if you're

listening there's still time yeah or if it's fizzled out let it fizzle out for good yeah don't fuck again but if you do gotta say something gotta say something so aaron yes, I am dating someone I'm really excited about now. I've tried to be really direct and not play games with her and it's going so well. Our first date was in August and it took me six dates before I finally kissed her, which was crazy. She's 23 and I'm 29. So I'm slightly concerned about that, but mostly just trying to think of how I should ask her to be my girlfriend. Weird. Her sister also dated that man from the threesome, and I've heard he's getting a dose of unrequited love from someone overly casual.

So I hope it works. The girl she's dating. Her sister. Her sister hooked up with the guy she had a threesome with. Yes. hooked up with the guy she had a threesome with yes and if my memory serves she had also hooked up with this guy outside of the threesome i believe so yeah because i don't think nat knew that aaron and rory had kind of had more interactions outside of it so she dated okay interesting and then she says uh i've heard he's getting a dose of unrequited love from someone overly

casual. What's that? So like he's, he has a fuck buddy. Yeah. But maybe he wants more. He's not getting what he wants, which is kind of,

I feel like how Aaron, what's that word mean? Unrequited means it's not coming back the other way. Uh, yeah. And so Aaron says, but maybe it's his own medicine. So based off,

what does she mean by that? Because I think that's how she felt with Rory, the unrequited love. So it's like, I hope it works out, but might be a bit of karma. So she liked Rory and Rory didn't like her. Is that right? Or maybe he just wanted something more casual or didn't want to pursue. But now she's dating a woman. Yes.

And it seems like it's going well. What happened to the other girl? To Nat? Yeah. But now she's dating a woman. Yes. And it seems like it's going well. She's wondering how to ask her to be the girlfriend. What happened to the other girl? To Nat? Yeah. Nat was not part of... She's just dead. Not in the update.

Not in the update. She's not with us anymore. All right. Any advice of how to ask someone to be your girlfriend? Do you want to be my girlfriend? I think she's paying too much attention to Rory still. I agree. I wish Rory hadn't been a part of this update.

I wish it would have just been focused on her current relationship. And how did she find out? Do we know how she found out that her new love interest's sister hooked up with Rory? Rory? Well, my guess is she heard it through her soon-to-be-'s sister like the update of rory and that he's having this unrequited love and isn't too happy does her new girlfriend know about this the sister might be keeping tabs as well does the new love interest girl know about this we should ask yeah it's hardest i i think she should tell her about the threesome yes well i mean it's hardest. I think she should tell her. About the threesome?

Yes. Well, I mean, it's, I don't, the fact, okay, first of all, she knows our caller. So how did she find out? Which means, like, clearly, I don't know, she's very, she's tapped in, I guess. You know what I'm saying? Like, so how did she find out about this sister, right? You know what I'm saying? So it's close to home.

Like, so how did she find out about this sister, right? You know what I'm saying? So it's close to home. So it's likely that she could find out regardless. And the more close to home it is, if I'm making any sense, the bigger it feels like she was keeping it from her, so to speak. It's one thing to be like, you know, it's not like, I don't think when you start dating someone,

you have to go through your whole, like, roster. I mean, like, well, just, you know, it's not like, I don't think when you start dating someone, you have to go through your whole like roster and be like, well, just, you know, I dated this person. I dated this person. We hooked up with this person. And then they went to third base with this person. I don't think you need to do that. But every once in a while, Natalie and I will walk into a room and it's kind of like an understanding. Like if, if she has to interact with someone, you know, where like I have a pass at that

person, I like to have a pass at that person, I like to, or vice versa. I like, we like to give each other a heads up because it kind of feels foolish to interact with someone that has a past, whether it's meaningful or not, you know,

and by meaningful, I mean like, you know, it's, you know what I'm saying? It just, it's kind of weird. I also,

we don't know if she hasn't already because how she started this update was i've tried to be really direct and not play games with her and it's going so well so maybe the two of them have had really honest and open conversation yeah maybe she knows maybe she knows okay uh as far as i don't know ask her listen like uh i really like you i've really been excited about getting to know you i'd love to keep doing that i'm not seeing anyone else you're not seeing an house uh i'd like to you know put a label on it or whatever just you know just i i think it's more rather than saying a label i think you go that far where you say i like you i don't want to date anyone else you know i'm really excited where this could go and then and if they say me too then you could say well i'd love to be able to call you my girlfriend you know

something like that and then if they say well i'm not big on labels red flag but yeah i'll just do that all right well good luck simple thanks for the update it's time for our next caller. Welcome back, Morgan. Hi, how's it going? Good, how about you? We're doing honestly better than I was the last time we spoke. Okay, well last time- It's good to say that.

Well, that's good to hear. Last time we spoke, you called in and you had just recently broken up with your partner, your boyfriend. Is it boyfriend right now fiance uh fiance at the time it was fiance at the time okay uh but you had some regrets and really at the time you were calling in kind of seeing how maybe you could salvage or fix the relationship and things like that would that be accurate accurate? Yes. Okay. The more we spoke, the more it seemed like I became more and more confused as to why you wanted to fight for the relationship.

Because you described him as selfish to a fault, I think was a phrase that you used. But yeah, it just seemed like the more we spoke the less happier you seemed about the relationship and so i feel and correct me if i'm wrong at any point here you're on you're good but uh the more we spoke the more it seemed like you were just kind of having i don't know maybe seller's remorse if you will you, like you had the relationship ended, but you know, as one does with relationships, you started probably reminiscing about the past, et cetera, et cetera.

We're afraid about maybe, you know, what did I do? Did I do something wrong? Let's actually play a quick clip to remind our audience, for those people who didn't get to listen to Morgan's first call, just to bring everyone up to speed.

My name is Morgan. I'm 28 and I broke off my engagement to my fiance and I want to try to work things out. Okay. Does he know that? Yes, he does. What was what was his response? It was a mixed bag of I don't know and I don't think I can do that right now. That was about two weeks ago. Okay. How, uh, how long are you dating for? How long are you engaged for? We were just shy of six years dating. And within that six years to those, the last couple of months were the engagement process. And how did the engagement come to be? Mm-hmm. Um, I was not surprised.. Basically, the week before and even some

weeks and months before, I'd been expressing like, hey, you know, we've been together this long. I feel like we're in a place where we can do this. I don't understand what the holdup is or if there is a holdup of some kind. But so basically I was just trying to gauge like, is this even part of your plan? And so I put him kind of on the spot about the week before. And I was just like, I don't know what's going on with you, but you need to figure something out fast or else I'm gone. After you proposed, after I said yes, everybody was up in arms about like planning. And then he started talking about like, I really want to get married in like a year from now. And I just said, Whoa, hold on.

I wanted to know that this was where you were not necessarily that we had to get married right away, but I also wanted to be able to have like time to work through things, get my money together to be able to pay for everything. And I also wanted to make sure that like personally and together that we were in a good place because we had just had a big blow up like the week before. After I said, let's hold up, he said, it's fine. Then eventually like communication that was typical, like the regular phone calls, text messages, whatever we do, just stopped completely. I would get little stuff here and there throughout the day, maybe once or twice when it would typically be significantly more. And that went on for about do just stopped completely. I would get little stuff here and there throughout the day, maybe

once or twice when it would typically be significantly more. And that went on for about three weeks. Like he didn't say anything when he like stepped back, he just stepped back. And then after that, he kind of came back around and I brought that up to him and I said, Hey, like when you do this, when you step away, take space without communicating with me about like what's going on and what you need or like anything, I feel like you're just leaving the relationship because I don't know when you're coming back and you don't want to address it when you do. This was around you being like, I'm not ready to get married in a year, essentially. Right? Right. Right. And then after that, he did the same thing for another month. So the first time I the first time that he stepped back, I said, I'm not doing that again.

And then he did it again. And I realized that later that reason for him stepping back was. Completely different from the first time he had a physical health thing going on and some things with his job, he wasn't really happy with. And I feel like his mindset was, this is stuff that I'm personally dealing with. I should be able to deal with this myself. I don't want to get anybody else involved with it. And so when he did that, it just kind of was like, well, how can I ask, how can I support you? How can I be here for you? I can't, you know, fix what's going on with you physically. And I can't give you a job, but like, what can I do to support you while this stuff kind of gets worked out? And that process went on for about a month of me just like asking. And every time it was,

I don't know. That's when I started to feel like really lonely in our relationship where I felt like here I am, I'm getting, I'm representing like us as an engaged couple, but you're not here physically. After a while, I just asked like, do you feel like you even have time for a relationship? Cause I feel like I'm just in it myself. And then he took a second thought about it and said, I don't think I have time for a relationship right now. And then I said, then I can't be here in this capacity. If that's how you feel. why do you want him back it was the history and it was like the amount of time that at least i had invested in our relationship you don't think he's invested anything i think he invested something i i wouldn't say it was on a similar level. I'm so like, like fascinated by your relationship.

You know, it sounds kind of loveless, emotional, which just how you're describing it. I don't know. I think it's alarming to hear you say that over the course of six years you feel like you've put in way

more than he's put in and I feel like empathizing with each other would go a long way I'm not do you I get the sense there's not a lot of that going on you know it's a lot of you guys communicating what you guys aren't getting out of this relationship yeah I would say for the empathizing, I could have probably done better about that. I guess

I'm also thinking like, just historically, I don't feel like the same has been done for me. And it's not that I'm doing that. I'm not trying to do it out of like any kind of retaliation towards them or anything like that. But it's just kind of like, I'm telling you what I need. And it seems like you're blatantly disregarding it. There's a lot that we can talk about and kind of the nitty gritty of the relationship. But I think more than anything, we kind of have to look at this relationship from a big picture standpoint. And big picture is you've been dating this guy for six years. You get engaged via stress. The catalyst for a proposal wasn't based off of like, we're just so in love and we're ready and we're excited about our future together.

It was you were feeling a little disconnected. You expressed some expectations. He met those expectations. I hope that he was excited when you did it. And I'm sure he was, you know, like it didn't sound like you forced him to do it. And then he sounded like he got excited. And then because of this communication, it sounded like your body told you the truth. And the truth is like something felt wrong. You know, why get married if you're not ready to get married in a year? You know, and if you're not ready to get married a year, why is it so important to get engaged? Well, I mean, I get why you wanted some security, you felt, you know, but instead of getting engaged, maybe you just needed to get more

connected. Now you guys weren't connected when you got engaged and therefore there was a disconnect and expectations of when you got married you expressed those that disconnect he felt per it was personal to him it felt like you just fucking made me getting like i had i i just proposed and now like you don't want to marry me i'm so confused and frustrated you know but that's a product of you guys not being connected and again again, back to how, when I ask you to describe how this relationship has made you feel, it's not super positive words. I'm sure he's a great guy and you love him, but at the end of the day, you don't feel like he's doing his part.

If you want to work it out with him, you need to try to empathize with him. You need to lead with love and communicate first how you feel about him. Why do you want to be in this relationship? I love you because of this. This is, you know, you express positive things that you see in him. What reasons you believe in him? Why you think he's a good enough man for you to spend the rest of your life with. And then you, maybe you can communicate like things that you would like the relationship

to work on. Ways that you, maybe you fell short, et cetera maybe you fell short etc etc etc maybe writing in a letter i know i said that a lot but i think it helps put people's you know put your your thoughts together you can kind of look at it but in the time being you might have these conversations with yourself and realize i don't know like i maybe i want to get back in this relationship for all the wrong reasons because you don Because you don't sound like you were all that happy. I guess that's my point in that relationship. I don't get the sense that you're actually wanting to get back together with this guy. You're responding out of fear. I'm getting a sense that maybe you just need to take a step back, accept that maybe this relationship isn't your future. I don't know if it is,

but I think you just accepting the possibility that it isn't will take a lot of stress off your shoulders. And maybe this is just, um, it's time to move on, you know? Okay. Um,

so in your words, Morgan, what was the advice that, uh, I gave you and how did you receive that advice? And where are we now? OK, so the biggest piece of advice at the end of everything that you gave was to give space, really, for both him and for me. OK.

To really like allow some space for me to like truly think about everything, reflect on everything, and probably for him to continue to do the same. I don't remember exactly when we spoke, but I want to say at some point in the maybe two to three weeks after I think I started like getting my feelings, I reached out just to check and see if like he was like doing okay like if any of the issues he was having like with his job and with his health like were any of those resolved I wasn't necessarily expecting anything maybe unconsciously there was like a hope of some kind um but overall in my head my gut was probably saying no don't don't even put that out there. And then maybe a few weeks after that, I wasn't doing anything. I didn't say anything. I removed him from all my socials because of course, algorithms, algorithm all the time. So the first thing that I would see if somebody was to comment

or share something, it would probably be his. And I didn't really want to see that on my page. I also kind of have been thinking about like advice that you've given to other people, um, just like allowing them not to have access to you. And that was a way that I felt like I could do that. Um, I remember I asked you, what do I do with like pictures and things like that? They're gone, deleted, removed. Um, yeah. deleted, removed. Um, yeah. Um, but going back to a few weeks ago, I actually got a text message from him. I deleted his number, but I memorized his number just because I've known him for so long. So I knew it was him. It was kind of unexpected because I was actually in the middle of something like work related. So kind of the last thing that I thought i would get um he had noticed that i removed him

from my socials um and basically was like so do we even need to talk later on probably around this time um about anything since you've removed me from all your socials it doesn't really seem like you want to talk and i said i only want to have a conversation with somebody who's willing and wanting to have a conversation with me um yeah i mean that him saying that is such a bullshit thing to say you know you you got under his skin you you made a move so to speak yeah uh that he had no say or control over he found out about that bothered him. And that was his way of trying to make you feel bad about not considering his feelings, even though you're not in a relationship with anymore. have you on there right now. So what's the, what's the point? And then he said, we can talk. He didn't say, yes, I would like to talk. No, I would, I wouldn't like to talk. He said, we can talk, but it will just be a conversation. And he knows what the conversation was supposed to be about.

So for him to, in that way, pull a power move, I was just kind of like, well, if that's all you're willing to do, I feel like I've done enough of that and we can just like move on from here. It doesn't have to be anything like more than what it was. We can literally just more or less let it go. And you do whatever you want to do. I do whatever I'm trying to do. And whatever you choose to do, I hope you're happy with that. to do. I hope you're happy with that. And then he apologized for wasting my time and not being the person that I needed in a partner, which I felt like was kind of weird. So I was like,

he was doing that for pity. I was like, okay. So I was like me too. I mean, I tried the best that I could, but everything that I was communicating just didn't really seem like you wanted to do that or didn't care enough to do it. Eventually I got tired of texting and I started like leaving voice notes because texting long things like that is really annoying and he likes to hide behind text messages. So I was like, okay. But in that voice note, I just kind of like outlined some behaviors that over the years at the time, like I thought I was overlooking and maybe it was like more so like pent up resentment, like things that were hurtful and things that really bothered me and things that I needed from him that I wasn't getting that he was willingly choosing not to

give, but would still say, Hey, okay, I'm going to do this or, Hey, I want to be there. And I would think, well, if you want to be here and you want to do this, you would do these things and you're not. After a while, I just left it. And then the next day, I got another message. I did nothing. Like I said, I've done nothing at this point, but simply do whatever I want to do, which is not really talk to him. And he had said something like, I realize now that what I said when I did said I didn't have time for you, that that's not what I meant to say. And I was like, so what did you mean to say? Because that's what you said. And he said, he all he could say was, I don't know, but I know it wasn't that. And I was just like, so it took you two months for you to still

come back and tell me that you don't know. And that was really all I need to know. That told me that nothing was really all that different. Yeah. He's negotiating with you. Yeah. I was just like, nothing was really different. One of the things that I've never exactly, I've told him that he should try this one day which is of course go to counseling like on his own because i do it myself and we did it together um told me he was not doing that because i felt like he was still flying by the seat of his pants with that response i'm like at this point if you've been trying to work through something you should know i would like to think that you would know after six years you should know but you don't

yeah i don't think he was trying. I think all he was trying to do is negotiate with you and what I mean. And he wasn't willing to change. He wasn't really willing to do anything differently. He was just trying to get you to do what he wanted. And he was just trying to figure out different ways to say it. You know what I'm saying? Because like,

right. Like it's not that complicated. You know what I'm saying? It's like, Hey, this is what I need i'm saying it's like hey this is what i need x y or z are you interested in doing it yes no you know he was just like no you know but that's not how you know really he he just wanted you to settle really he wants you to not be frustrated with what you were frustrated with and he was expecting you to kind of just get over it yeah you know not happening i i had been doing his way for a long time so and like this is the guy you described as selfish to a fault so yeah that is tracking with you know just kind of these little bread crummy responses getting your hopes up you know that

shitty like oh i just want to say like i didn't mean to say that and you're like well you know that gives you hope you said that gives you hope you know and you're like oh what oh maybe he's going to say something that really is going to change everything and he's like well i don't really know but i didn't mean that what the fuck you know yeah you're supposed to do with that if you're going to negotiate at least do it properly so when was the last time you spoke with him oh gosh hold on i actually wrote all of this down let me look at the dates that i wrote um this was like around mid-november so a little over a month ago at this point okay and are we done yeah yeah we're done okay because he's probably not going to stop reaching out yeah Yeah. Yeah. That's true.

Or it might be a while before the next time. I know at some point. Yeah. I hate that I have to deal with this, but I have to see him in person at some point next year. Why do you have to see him in person? So we have a lot, lots of mutual friends. And one of those sets of mutual friends is getting married and we are both in the wedding party for one person i'm with the bride he's with the groom when is that when i

agreed to this before we split okay before things went way downhill when's the wedding april okay april 2024 we got some time you'll be all right yeah You'll be all right. Yeah. You'll be all right. I think in the meantime, you could block him. And again, when, and then when you do, and he gets inevitably like annoyed or mad about it, you can just say, listen, it's no, no offense. Literally. I'm not trying, you know, but every time you reached out, it just, I needed to move on. It's that simple. And like, we just didn't need to have conversations.

You know, I, I still, you know i i still you know respect you and i think you're swell and blah blah blah but you know that's but like yeah i think between now and then you don't need to be reaching out to him you don't you know he's gonna use this wedding as a way to like reach out to you like come february be like hey so i got this wedding coming up and like maybe you know this or that and i i promise you in the back of his mind he he very much is thinking about this wedding as an opportunity to check in with you so you need to do you know what you need to do is kind of i'd love for you to bring a date i would love for me to bring a date ah i have to look around and see but regardless if you find a date the good news is just make it about your friend get your hair done or something you know i mean

everyone dates their hair done in a wedding i'm sure you'll look great you know but like you know do you spend the next few months like really investing in yourself and show up drop dead gorgeous and and if you can get a date great if not no big deal but yeah these are hard it's so hard to move on from someone especially when you had a very serious relationship and and you took some major steps and engagement obviously you expected to have a life with this person so it can be really tough so but it seems like you're doing a good job not making it any tougher than it already is or needs to be um yeah and i think the best thing you can do now is really try to stop thinking about it and

talking about it with your friends. You know, I don't know what, how, I don't know how much of this you are talking about with your friends, but you know. Everybody knows. Okay. Well, you need to stop talking about it with your friends. They only know. So.

It just keeps your, it just, that's where it just keeps your energy there yeah i know i know even as i was doing and i'm like i know i'm putting energy where i'm not supposed to but i did not want even people that we we as a couple at the time were relatively close to i didn't want them to just like pop up out of nowhere and be like so when is? I didn't want any of that. So I said, more or less, it's done. Don't ask about it. Now you know it's done. Just don't ask, more or less. Okay, good. Yeah, I think you'll have moments.

The holidays are coming up, whatever. It's an easy opportunity to feel sad. But just do your best to not go down those kind of self-pity rabbit holes and be optimistic about 2024 and all the new exciting beginnings and what what that might bring you and just be excited about the unknown because the unknown can be scary but also can be exciting so just keep, keep that energy positive, keep that mentality positive. It goes a long way. And, you know, the difference between where you're at now, and I've been there,

but where you're at now, it could, you know, you could sit in this kind of sadness for a while. You could extend it if you want. It's not that hard to extend it. You know, you keep talking to friends and you get new friends and every time someone gives you an opportunity to talk about heartbreak or sadness, you jump right in and you lead those conversations and you reminisce or you don't block them. He reaches out and you're spending a decent amount of energy thinking about him on some level, or you do the opposite, which is you really remove all that access. You do block them.

Don't let him trigger you with a unexpected text message. Continue to not talk about with your friends going forward. Uh, really get into investing in yourself. What, what have I, you know, this relationship took a lot of your energy.

So what do you want to do with that? That, that free time, you know, this relationship took a lot of your energy. So what do you want to do with that free time, you know, so to speak? All that energy that went to him, where do you want it to go next? And think a lot about that. Maybe travel a little bit. Maybe, you know, try new things, whatever it is. You know, could go into dating other people, you know. I would like to, you know, maybe divvy that up a little bit. But you know what I'm saying?

Like, but think about that and get excited about that and it'll go a long way. Yeah. We had a couple of things down the pipeline. Like number one, even though I had already started it, I chose to restart your book. I saw you looking at it a little bit earlier, or maybe it was your copy. I don't know. But I plan to, first of all, read it all the way through now with a new headspace and then, you know, kind of like gather my thoughts that way. My sister and I have

got some business ventures that we're trying to build up. So it's awesome. Got a lot of different things in the pipeline. That's great. Well, I, it's already sounds like things are heading in the right direction. You even said it yourself, you feel better than you did last time. And if you keep doing what you're doing, it'll, it'll only get better. Yeah. And eventually you're going to get to a point where you're going to be thankful. You didn't end up with them because as much as you spent those six years, and I'm sure you had a lot of good memories, you know, it sounds like those last few years

were pretty frustrating, you know? Yeah, they were. It sounds like those last few years were pretty frustrating, you know? Yeah, they were. And a lot of your relationship was built off of potential and hope rather than what you're actually receiving. And eventually you're going to be able to find, you know, someone who's actually willing to do those things for you. Exactly. Okay.

All right. Well, good luck. Thank you so much for the update. Happy holidays. Happy New Year. Same to you guys. Thank you for reaching back out. I really appreciate it. I'm glad I was able to share.

We appreciate you taking the time to share with us. All right. Take care, guys. Likewise. All right. Bye-bye. Rocket Money. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that finds and cancels your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps lower your bills. It's truly a magical gift. I know so many of you are listening to this show and you have apps that you're not using. You have money that you're burning.

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That's FILES to 64000. Message and data rates may apply. See terms for details. So before our final caller, we have our final written update. So this is from Madison. She was our texting office hours caller on episode 629 with Teddy Mellencamp and basically was asking you and Teddy how to address the fact that her friend was kind of being very handsy with her baby, like at parties and every time they were together, she'd take the baby, she'd kiss the baby, you know, and she wasn't really sure how to address it because she's very conflict averse.

And Teddy was great with advice, you know, being a mom herself and having other girlfriends who had various levels of, you know, touching and grabbing and all sorts of lovely parenting things. I totally remember. Let's play a quick clip for everybody so they make sure that they are brought up to speed. How can we help Madison? So I have a newborn baby and I am not OK with how my friend is acting around my baby. And I don't like conflict. So I'm looking for advice to set some healthy boundaries.

What is she doing? Is she just shaking your baby or? No, none of that. So she got really excited when i was pregnant um we weren't super close we're like friends slash acquaintances um but she dubbed herself auntie right away and when my baby was born the first time she met her was at a wedding and she immediately went to my baby who was in the car seat asleep and unbuckled her and took like picked her up right away without asking me and continued to like walk around this wedding with her the entire time and like never picked

up on cues that i wanted to have the baby back and never shared her with anybody and then that's happened pretty much every time we've been in a setting with lots of people i've actually had one time where somebody made a comment like oh i'd love to hold your baby later and she had the baby and she actually just like walked off, like completely heard this, walked off and ignored the request, which was super awkward for me. Sounds like a lifetime movie. So recently I was at her house and I made a comment that my baby was teething and her gums were a bit sore. So she just walks off with my baby comes back with a freezy in her mouth without asking me at all which i don't think is appropriate to put things in a

child's mouth when the parent's not okay with this um she's also constantly like kissing my baby which like one peck or whatever that's fine but it's like constant yeah and her dubbing herself onto you and you guys aren't even that close of friends. I was like, bold. I guess my first question is, like, why did you go to her house? She had grabbed something for me and I was going to pick it up. OK, so I think this you just said something that struck me. She was doing something for you. So I think that's also where the lines start to get blurred, because if somebody does something for you, then all of a sudden they think that they have this level of comfortability with you. That's how people make friends in LA. Yeah. So I'll pick up at the airport. Yeah. I'll do this. I'll do that. You know, I'm one of those no nonsense people, especially when it comes to my kids. I have my friends that

I trust that also have kids around my age that I've known them forever that I'm like, listen, parent my kids the way you would parent yours. I trust you all, you know, a hundred percent. We're all on each other's team. But I also have people that are acquaintances that I don't trust that I wouldn't put in that situation. And I would just be straightforward. You don't have to have confrontation. But I just say, hey, listen, I think like the relationship that you're building with

my baby is making it hard for me at this point in time, because this is, you know, my newborn baby. I love them. I want to spend time. And every single time that I'm with you, you kind of overtake the situation. And this is really my first time to do this. And I just want to be able to have that quality time and just saying it. I mean, if she's going to get upset about it, then it's really not about your friendship at all. It's about the relationship she's trying to form with your baby. I also think it's hard, too, because I know in your email you'd said like you've had moments with her where you're actually like put your arms out as in I would like my daughter back.

And she like laughs and doesn't give her back to you, which adds to a level of uncomfort. What's your read? What's your gut? Do you feel like there's something kind of toxic or like unhealthy about this? Or is she just not good at reading the room? I think it's, yeah, not reading the room and the social cues. And just, it feels like entitlement to do things with my baby that are more like a motherly thing. How old is she?

28. Okay. Does she have kids? Yeah. She does have kids. Okay. Is this your first child? Mine?

Yeah. So, I mean, I thought it would have been the opposite. Yeah, I didn't have a kid. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I don't know that she's trying to do anything that's malicious. She's probably just trying to help. But I think if it's making you uncomfortable, you just have to nip it in the bud right now.

I would just say, listen, this is my first baby. I really want to have a bunch of firsts with her. I just need you to respect my space a little bit when it comes to her. Like, if I hand her to you, it's because, you know, I want to. But if not, will you just let me have that time with her? It means a lot to me right now. I know that you're a pro at this, like almost boost her up. Like you're a pro at this, but this is my first time and I want to experience these firsts. And you can even make it about yourself. you know i'll say certain things like i you know it's it makes me feel this way it makes me feel that way you ask me if you want to hold so and so your baby it just makes me feel anxious just in general when anyone grabs her without me knowing what she's doing and like can

you just yeah i think that's great advice from teddy because then it's less about her and saying things like i want to experience the first. It's like, oh, no, this would be a rule for anybody, not just you. Or this happens when anybody takes her or if she's out of my sight or anytime someone puts something in her mouth. Like it's not it's less personal in that way. But also, like, I mean, if she's holding the baby and you want your baby, you got to. It's your baby.

So like instead of just holding your arms out and hoping she gets the baby, you gotta, it's your baby. So like, instead of just holding your arms out and hoping she gets the point, you don't think she's someone who's good at reading social cues. I mean, at a minimum, I know you hate confrontation, but you need to just go ahead and ask for your baby. And I know also as a first time, like when my first, there were moments where people would come in

and like take over the situation almost as if they could do it better than I could. And you know what? They probably could. But I then would start to feel insecure, like maybe I'm not as good as this person because they handled the situation so well or whatever it may be. I think also as as new moms and the way that we feel when we have a baby, sometimes we will process things differently. So i just say hey listen i'm just going through it and i want to i want to experience everything and it's not about you but like i'll hand my baby to you if i need help also if you let her know in advance yeah like you're

tell you're working on hey we're working with her on some sort of routine i don't right isn't that a thing i'm leaving my house now but as a heads, my baby is sleeping right now and I don't want her waking up. So please don't tell you know, like if you if you give her advance notice and she still does it, then you're in for a bigger conversation. You can just say, can you be mindful? Like I just, you know, a lot of germs going around. Can you not, you know, kiss grace on the mouth or whatever or whatever? You know, you know, things like that. Like you have every right to, it's your kid, you know, and just ask nicely. Or you can do it almost in a joking way. No mouth kisses, you know, like no, no, no, no mouth kisses. And then she's not going

to feel like she has to like overcompensate. Yeah. There's a way to just sit down with her and kind of like Teddy and we've all said, kind of put it on you like, Hey, you know, as a new mother, I really look forward to this and maybe I'm doing it wrong but I'm really want to work on this this made me anxious and I know it's not you you're obviously a great mother throw her a bone you're obvious I've learned a lot from you thank you so much blah blah blah blah you know shit like that I know you're trying to help me but this is very important time for me that I want to focus on yeah and and that if she's offended by that, she'll probably be like, oh, my gosh, I just saw this. And who knows? Sometimes it also can shed a light on the

energy that we're giving. I know sometimes people were trying to help me because I honestly looked frantic or I looked stressed or I looked overwhelmed. And so the women in my life would try to step in. And I had to finally put some boundaries down, too, and just say, hey, listen, I'm figuring it out. Sometimes it's going to take me a second longer to change a diaper than you because you've had five kids. Like, I just need a second.

And they may cry for 10 seconds while I figure it out, but it's OK. And then you'll start to feel power in using your voice and knowing that what you have to say is worth being heard. And then it won't be such a big deal. My husband can't wait for this to happen in front of him because he is not afraid to say something oh let him do it if you really can't do it and you don't want him to or what have you like just we haven't been in the situation where he has been there but yeah it really bothers him when i come home telling him what happened and yeah he's not afraid because he wants you to stand up for yourself which you can yeah you you can do this i think if you handle it well you'll give us an update and be like you

know what i wish i would have done this sooner think of it this way if you handle it this way and clearly you're going to be nice about it because you hate confrontation so you'll probably apologize five times while setting a boundary uh so try to work on that in general because we've all been there i think i know i'm someone who comes across as like i don't give a fuck about confrontation but like i don't love it i'm just like willing to do it when necessary you know when i need to but the point is is like yeah like you're you're gonna be super nice and if she doesn't handle it the way we all expect, then that's a bigger red flag. You will reveal something about her as someone who like, you know what, maybe despite being in a small town, I need to separate myself from someone because like, all I am asking

is that she respects some real basic boundaries when it comes to my newborn child. And she is taking offense to that. And I was super nice about it. So like, ooh, maybe it is necessary. So I think only good things can come from you just very nicely complimenting her and then asking her to just follow some very basic rules that like Teddy said,

is this something that you're trying out as a mom and things that you're working on and you're trying some new practices and you're trying out as a mom and things that you're working on and you're trying some new practices and you're working on things and you appreciate her advice, but at the same time, you're also seeking out opinions about everyone and you're really enjoying this experience of being a new mom with your daughter and you really want to fully enjoy it. And you're just asking for her help as people love to think they're very helpful. Clearly this friend thing wants to be helpful. So make her think she's being helpful by respecting your needs as well.

It's not going to ruin it. If it's ruined, then we've got some additional red flags we need to dig for. That's what I'm saying. If this is ruined, then this is not someone who's like interested in being your friend. They're interested in using you for your kid. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So let us know. Keep us posted for sure. So Madison writes, hi, Vile Files crew.

I finally have an update for you. For months, I've struggled to tell a friend to stop kissing my baby. A few weeks ago, I was at a girl's night and this friend was also there. Ironically, she told a story about needing to set boundaries with her grandmother about kissing her daughters when they were younger. I added my thoughts and said, yeah, no one should be kissing your kids, especially during cold and flu season. Well, fast forward to this week.

We went for a walk and my comment clearly hadn't made an impression. Sure enough, she picked up my daughter and immediately kissed her face. I finally said something. I took your advice and in a super playful way, I said, blank, you can't be kissing babies. She tried to tell me it was just on her cheek and not on her lips,

but I stood my ground and said, no, you shouldn't be kissing babies at all. She seemed receptive. In hindsight, I worked up the conversation in my head and it wasn't as bad as I had anticipated. It felt really empowering to finally enforce this boundary. Thank you so much for your advice. Moving forward, I feel more confident that I can have these hard conversations right away and not let it go on far too long. Happy holidays to you all.

Amazing. Love. Yeah, I mean, listen, it's wild how unselfaware so many of us are. That's funny. That's funny. It's also so true, though. Like, sometimes you just build things up in your head. You're like, this is going to be a huge argument and they're going to freak out. And then half the time, it's just you just make it out to be something it's not.

And sure, sometimes people can be very reactive and create a mountain out of a molehill. and create a mountain out of a molehill, but... Well, it's also, too, sometimes when we think it's going to be worse, right, then we bring that energy into it. So it sounds like she tried to, you know, keep it light, you know, keep it, like, not attacking. Like, how you can't...

Baby Kevin has babies like that. Oh, it's on the cheek. I mean, no, but you really can't. And then it kind of clicked, probably, it sounds like sounds like with this woman it's supposed to be like what the fuck are you doing i you know like or attack her be like you know why if you said you would you got frustrated at your grandma but now you know like so sometimes if we work it up in our head we'll assume conflict and then so if we assume conflict we we will act as if we were in conflict before even in conflict and then attack ultimately creating the conflict

that we were afraid to create uh but yeah you know just a little a little bit of communication goes a long way love that and Are you gonna say something if someone grabs your daughter and tries to kiss her? Yeah, and I won't even be nice about it. I'm like, hey. I love that she countered first and she was like, but it's just on the cheek. It's not on the lips. That was her being defensive. She knows.

She knows. Yeah. Yeah, she knew. Yeah, I'm gonna be like, hey, I don't know where your fucking mouth's been. Keep your dirty little lips off my child. Not the dirty little lips. All right, let's get to our last caller. Welcome back, Liz. Good to be back.

So, Liz, this is the second update we've gotten from you. It's been quite a journey. The first, I mean... I think third. Third. Is it the third? Yeah. Oh, this is the third time we've gotten from you. It's been quite a journey. The first time. I think third. Third. Is it the third? Yeah. Oh, this is the third time we're speaking.

Third update. Third update. What was our second? Fourth time we're speaking. Fourth time we're speaking. Amazing. Well, the first time you called in, it was all about you were out there dating and being crass, but out there just giving it up, just going down, sucking some dick

and not feeling like, uh, your needs were being reciprocated. Uh, it was a lot of, uh, you giving and not receiving. I think a lot of people, uh, I think that call resonated with a lot of people. We had a lot of conversations about hookup culture and just making sure you get yours type of thing. And if you are going to participate in hookup culture, and if you want to be successful in that, it's going to require a lot of upfront communication. Otherwise, you're just inevitably going to be disappointed like you were. And then you gave us some updates. You tried to implement some of the things we talked about, some upfront communication, and it seems like things were taking a positive turn.

Yeah. Bring us up to speeding your words, just like the two updates that we had. Okay. The first update, I was implementing what we talked about and have since been doing the same. and have since been doing the same. I have not been going down so easily or going at such a quick pace. I've been making sure that I get mine too. We're just taking things slower. Great.

And then the second update, I had started seeing someone that had been about a month. Okay. Yeah. Now I'm remembering. Yeah. Since then, I'm no longer seeing this guy for a pretty strange reason i think i mentioned last time he brought me some soup because i was sick and strep throat seeing him for for the next few weeks discovered like oh when i'm not on antibiotics every few days after i see you i get get strep throat again. I got it three times. So I was essentially allergic to this guy. He was definitely a strep carrier and he wouldn't take it seriously. I was like, the one thing that you can do if you want to keep seeing me is go and

get tested and take care of this. And he wouldn't really do it. He went to the doctor, but they wouldn't really take it seriously either. And so I was like, I can't see you. I'm going to keep getting sick. This is insane. I've never experienced anything like it. How did you know it was him? Because it was like clockwork. It was like two days after I would see him every time I would get strep throat. And then I stopped seeing him and I haven't gotten it again. How many times did you get strep throat? Three.

Jesus Christ. Three times over six weeks. But he did go to the doctor? but i haven't gotten it again how many times you get strep throat three jesus christ three times over six weeks but he did go to the doctor he went to the doctor but they wouldn't give him a culture they only gave him they only gave him a rapid test and it was negative sure because you're a carrier it would be negative and that is a thing i am aware of that that is a thing like yeah it could be a carrier and then he was like i have he thought this is kind of crass too, but he was like, I have this penis infection. And he thought that it was from that.

Why does he have a penis infection? He's uncircumcised. The thing that it's yeah. I think that uncircumcised guys can get. So he thought that it was from that, but then I messaged my doctor and she was like, no, those are two different kinds of strep. So I really think that it was in his mouth and he just wouldn't take it seriously. So you were like, I'm sorry, we can't keep dating. Yeah.

What a bizarre thing to happen. But I mean, that was, I think, indicative of some other red flags, too. He lived about an hour away. So logistically, it was kind of tricky. And he was between he really wanted to leave his job and transition to another job and he would say things like you know if I found a great job in New York or Oregon

I would go I was like why would you say that why are we dating then so there were other there were other things and financially he was having a bit of a tough time didn't pay for my meals we would like split everything which is fine but you know it's a 38 year old man

38 year old man yeah how old are you? 27 yeah he was going nowhere fast exactly but it was fun while it lasted okay and I feel a little sorry for his next partner who continues to get strep throat

from him what a bummer he's in past we we don't care about him yeah uh he's in the past how's dating been since it's been going well really soon after that happened um in fact so quickly that i gave this guy the strep that i had for the third time um i started seeing someone else and initially i I really only met him because I saw him on Hinge and I knew who he was because he's pretty successful in his field. I was like, why are you on Hinge?

I thought it was a bot. Like a public figure? Like a public figure of some kind? A little bit, yeah. Are you still talking? Yes. That has been a bit of a complicated journey. Why?

I have been thinking I would love to get your insight on this. But yeah, I initially met just thinking this would be a cool person to even have a friendship with. But it went great. And it went at a pretty quick pace for 3 weeks. Really initiated by him. And by that i just mean like texting me all day and wanting to see each other every few days and then he went out of town um for work stuff for about two weeks and truly like the second he got on that plane the communication shifted and i wasn't hearing from him for a few days at a time and i was like well he's on a work trip that's fine i haven't experienced this before And I was like, well, he's on a work trip. That's fine.

I haven't experienced this before. Perhaps that's just because he's busy and he's in another country and we have a time difference. So I was like, I'll see what things are like when he gets back. And they were still feeling kind of his communication was feeling kind of distant when he got back to. So I asked him about it. I was like, I know that we haven't been texting as much. I would love to pick things back up where we left them, but let me know where your head's at. And he said something like, yeah, to be honest, I'm not super sure where my head's at, but I'd like to keep seeing you too. Are you free this day? So I thought, okay, well,

we haven't seen each other in a little while. Let's see how things are in person. So I thought, okay, well, we haven't seen each other in a little while. Let's see how things are in person. So we saw each other pretty normal. But at the end of the night, he just dropped me off. And that was the end of the night. We didn't go back to his apartment. He said it was messy.

And I was like, that's bullshit. So that was feeling weird. So a few days went by, still kind of distant. And then I asked him again. i was like what what's going on um and then he hit me finally with the uh i think i'm not healed from my last breakup okay i was like okay drag this out of you yeah and then um and i didn't respond for like a day and so he said are you okay do you want to talk and i said you can call me if you want and then we talked that night for like two hours and then another phone call that week for like three hours why why what did you talk about are you his therapist a lot of stuff am i his therapist

i know it seems that way um well i mean we talked pretty equally about me as well. Okay. I just want you to be careful. So advice. I mean, I don't know. I know. Here's this guy. You've shown more interest in him than he has in you. Only simply on the fact that he went out of town, different country, and you spent time wondering about his frequency interactions with you.

Yeah. You followed up with him. So when I say he's more into you you're more into him than he is to you i'm basing it off of of that information you know things can change quickly whatever but as of now that seems to be the case and then you checked in again you had you had a date he's like you know um he thought his place was messy you thought it was bullshit whatever maybe you know Like, was it bullshit? I don't know.

But like, listen, it's okay for a guy to not want to like hook up right away. Totally. You know, like it's. No, we had already hooked up at that point. Sure. But even still, you know, it's like. Yeah. You know, especially I think that's respectful.

Like for a guy to like, if I'm unsure about my feelings, then us having sex is not consistent with what I'm saying. You know, if I were, if man or woman, if I'm saying, Hey, I'm, I'm unsure about where my head's at, but Hey, by the way, do you want to go? Fuck that's you're being kind of a hypocrite. Exactly. You know, and you are leading someone on and you're confusing a situation. So I don't fault him at all for that. So then he tells you, Hey, I'm still not over my ex.

And the next thing you tell me is you've had two different long ass conversations. Yes. And you're not going to like what happened after that. Okay. Well, yeah, well, I'm waiting, but do you see why i find that to be concerning before you even tell me because it's like you you've allowed yourself i don't even know what the conversations were about but you've allowed yourself to kind of get more into friend zone territory yeah now yeah do you understand well i well i agree because at that point i was like well we're not dating anymore you just told me that you don't want to date anymore yeah you're like hey i mean i'm fucked up i'm already thinking about another girl.

And you're like, do you want to talk about it, basically? You know, the correct response would have been, oh, thank you so much for being honest with me. Breakups can be really hard. I've been there. I totally get it. But like, listen, like if you ever work through that, you know, and I'm still single, you know, hit me up,

you know, kind of very chill, very still single you know hit me up you know kind of very chill very like you know i don't got time for that without without sounding bitchy or like crass or like you know you're just more like oh yeah you empathize and you you know you move on but no you you're like let's talk let's let's let me become your therapist and i know now listen with most people i would have i'm just so fascinated by him as a person and he's that's fine and maybe and maybe he becomes a good friend but as far as a romantic interest you weren't doing things to help you close the deal so to speak i agree okay so i assume that the deal wasn't closed. And the second conversation was much more like an exit interview for me. I was like, I've never... Yeah, I've never asked someone that I dated X, Y, and Z questions. And I would love to get this feedback. So that was very helpful.

What did you ask? I asked things like, did you see any red flags or have any icks? But also, you see any uh red flags or like have any icks but also like you know when this thing happened um like where was that coming from like things that i hadn't hadn't asked him at the time that i kind of like percolated on a lot of things that were like retrospective you know just reflecting on patterns that that i've had um and wondering if he had any insight into that because I feel like I always get to the point of being in an exclusive relationship like I've had one boyfriend

but I've gone to this point like several times and that's a pattern so I talk about this in therapy but the feedback that I seem to keep getting is like it's kind of just the guys that you're picking.

Probably. Yeah. Yeah. Which is a pattern for me as well. What did the guy say? What do you ask him? When I asked him, that's what he said. The guy, he said what?

He said, this sounds like it's just a result of the men that you're dating. So the guy you were dating and your ex-hater interview was giving you like relationship advice i asked for it but yeah okay just stop asking guys you're dating for relationship advice well it was an exit interview i guess but like it's just one fucking guy you don't really know that well and what gave him the qualifications to well who better to speak to that than someone who's actually dated me because i wanted to hear like is there anything is was there anything in me that you noticed that you think contributes to this because i can you know do the work within myself and go to therapy and and you really expect from other people but i've never asked anyone whom i've dated i guess

i think it's he's very, very honest. Okay. Yeah. Fair enough. So I was like, you're not going to lie. Yeah, but he also is just one man's opinion. I agree. You were emotionally invested. Of course. No, I mean, I'm not taking his word as God. Yeah, okay. Definitely not, but I'm like,

I've never asked anyone that I've dated these questions, so who better to speak to it than someone who's experienced it? Yeah. I think you just need to slow down, honestly, in dating. I mean, I love the updates. Yeah. You know, and, but our first conversation started with you being a pretty frequent dater

and hooking up with these dates pretty quickly. Yeah. That shifted a little bit. That resulted into you meeting someone, you know, you had a You had a bizarre kind of breakup, strep throat gate. So weird. Strep throat gate. And then you found this other guy. And yeah, I think you, hey, you met someone that was semi-famous.

You were fascinated by his career. That brings a natural chemistry. Slow down in general. When you meet a guy you like, you got to slow down because I think you start liking these guys too quickly. I agree. And get excited by someone who's excited by me. Yeah. And we all do. But whether it's giving a blow job or you clearly, you are seeking the approval of these men more than you should. I agree.

And I think the blowjobs played a role in that. It was like, how'd you like, you know what I'm saying? So it's like, you have no problem getting dates. And I think the more you, I really think, we're winding down 2023. I would love for you to take a pause on dating for a moment. I don't, not shut it down. You know, if you meet someone great, you know, but I would, I would take a pause on being so proactive when it comes to dating. Yeah. And I would take that energy and channel into things more specific to you and your career, your friends and things like that. Just kind of reset a little

bit. Not the whole year, but just slow it down, be more open to the people you do meet. But like this whole, like, I think it's it's i feel like 2023 at least maybe longer it's been a very proactive attempt on your part to go out to meet men to date to try to find connections and when one doesn't work out you're already back out there i mean hell you gave the next guy you dated strep throat you hadn't even healed literally from the guy you know what i'm saying so you are yeah that that is that is a pattern and that is a bit problem problematic but it's that is i think playing a role and it you know it creates a little bit there's a little bit of desperation in there there's a little bit of energy to that you know constantly like hey are what you know you're and again you're showing interest in in

these guys that haven't really earned it you know granted minus this guy who is you know a little famous and you you know that's exciting sure but you know give it some time to breathe you know when you get excited about a guy just remind yourself as i always say like i have a lot to learn you don't have to shut it down with every other person if you just because you meet someone whatever you need to do to keep your um mentality is more of a free agent until you're not a free agent you know i think you are taking yourself off the market uh before the anyone asks you to, so to speak. Yeah. And I think people sense that.

You know, you're like, you caught me before they've even had a chance to, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. So think about that. Yeah. Next time. I get it. I get he was direct.

I get he was honest, but you don't need these, these guys' validation and you don't need their approval for guys who don't want to date you and you don't need feedback. Especially, you know, you're in therapy, great. You've been a frequent caller of this. You know, it's just like other people's opinions of you

are none of your business. And it's like the more, you know, data, it's like, oh, I'm just doing it for data. I'm just doing it for research. I'm just trying to get honest feedback. It's just like, these are just, these are all a bunch of different guys with a bunch of different preferences and you're, you're, you're over editing yourself, you know? So now you're going to go into this next relationship with feedback

you got from some other guy who you dated for a couple of weeks. It's like, uh, I'm seeing him tonight who this guy why i know yeah he's taking me to the symphony so you have a date with him yeah i guess but that's what i'm saying what are you saying that we that he said i'm not um healed i'm not ready to date and then yeah but you know i get why no he we've been having these long phone calls and then i saw him another time in a way he's using you we're doing this he's using you i mean not like in some sort of an evil way but you know when you first met you had a couple dates you hooked up you know it was nice he's like yeah i met this nice girl and you're like i met this guy and then he went out of town and you were like, and then you asked for answers. You'll ask for some clarity, maybe a little sooner than you should have, because like

you were getting clarity from a guy, you know, you were looking to set boundaries and expectations with someone you kind of barely knew. You had a couple of good dates. Maybe even when the physical side, slow it down even more, you know? Yeah. There's that. And then you asked for some clarity. He was like, ah, I don't know,

blah, blah, blah, girlfriend from the past. Then you got on this phone and you just got into this really kind of like, I think we're just friends now. Talking about exes, you're getting advice from him about other guys. And now he's like, yeah, now he feels comfortable asking you out to a symphony or whatever, even hooking up with you. Because at any point when you say, but like, I'm confused, what are we, what's going on? You can be like, he can be like, he can play dumb. He can be like, well, I mean, we're chill, right? Like we're cool. Like we're talking about friends and exes, but now he, you know, in the middle of him getting over his ex or finding some other girl, you know, when he wants to go to a symphony, he's like, oh, like, I'm just going to call my very chill friend who's like so chill that she'll let me talk about my past relationships

and she tells me about hers. And we're like kind of friends with like maybe benefits sometime, but it's so chill. He's using you and you're allowing yourself to be used. And it's not like you're not getting anything out of it. You're, you know, you're probably looking forward to tonight. It's something to do. He's entertaining. He's fascinating. You get to go to a of it. You're probably looking forward to tonight. It's something to do. He's entertaining.

He's fascinating. You get to go to a symphony. It's cool. So it's not like you're some victim in this, but you're potentially wasting your time. Yeah, I know. Well, I mean, I'm not telling you not to go to the symphony, but stop. Reset expectations. Or just stop having these conversations about friends with him.

I don't know. Or be his friend. You have to decide what kind of relationship you want to have with this guy. And stop giving him all the power to decide what this relationship is. If you want to be his pal, be his pal. And then you don't, you know, this you. And I asked you, well, what is tonight a date? You're like, I don't know.

Again, that's you giving him all the power. You are letting him decide whether it's a date or not. And because you've had, I mean, I think it's a date, but you think after what you think you don't know. And I don't, I don't, from what you've told me, I don't necessarily think it's a date. I think it's, uh, an outing of two friends. Yeah. You've hooked up and maybe there's a bit of a past, but you've also had a lot of very platonic and friendly conversations that like romantic people who just started dating don't have. And so that's what I'm saying. If it's a date, then you got to treat it like a date and let them know that you think it's a date or you're going as friends. You have to stop letting him decide what it is.

Yeah. Now, granted tonight going to the fucking symphony, whatever, but in the future, if he's like, Hey, do you want to go out to dinner? And you could say, is this a date or are we just friends? If you just want to be friends with him, be his friend. You don't need to get clarification. But you accepted the symphony as a date, clearly. Seems datish.

Seems like a datish activity. But how did you accept it? What do you mean? Well, how did you accept the date? What I'm saying is you said it seems datish, you know, before I got into a committed relationship, I had plenty of women friends that I would feel comfortable as, you know, Hey, you want to go to this party with me? You want to go to this wedding with me?

You want to go to the symphony with me? And it was never going to be a date. So the fact that you're going to a symphony with a guy doesn't mean it's a date, even though people, it could be a date but yeah you literally said you had an exit interview with him you see how you're confusing yourself and listening certainly uh yeah it's a weird situation it's not weird no it's not weird you are you are complicating a situation that doesn't need to be complicated. And you're kind of having fun with it.

I mean, you've heard me talk about drama before. I know. The story. You wondering and calling in and talking to friends and like, is this a date? Is it not a date? Is fun on some level for you. Even if it's simultaneously frustrating, it's drama. Yeah. You know, wondering. I think you need to be more intentional with your dating. Yes. I think you need to slow yourself down when you meet someone

you like and you need to stop letting these guys call all the shots you know if if you don't stop assuming it's no you don't you try you're you're a you're an adult you're very intelligent and capable person so when this guy asked you out to a symphony you could have been like you could have asked for clarification right there are Are you asking me out as a date? Are we going as friends? Because we've gone back and forth and I just, and he could have said, oh, friends. At least he would have known. But now you're like, I think it's a date.

Yeah. I could ask him tonight. Sure. You could. But I want you in the future to ask when they ask. Now you're kind of weird. Oh, is this a date? You know, you might as well just go now and have fun.

Yeah. Unless you want to get messy. I don't want to get messy. Then I would just go and have fun and see what the night takes you. You might as well. I wouldn't hook up with him without a conversation before. If the night goes really well and he's like,

hey, do you want to go back to my place? would say no and and just i'd be like listen you know i would love to but like i just feel like i kind of assumed that we were going down more of a friend path you're not ready to date and like i really think you're cool and i enjoy your company i wasn't even sure if this was a date but like if this is and if you really want me to come up, then I, like, I don't want to do the whole vague, is this or isn't this a relationship? And I, again, I'm not pressing you for an answer. I'm just, that's why I'm saying no, you know, that's, that would be you taking your power back. That would be you calling the shots. You've been far too kind of submissive. I want, I want you to take the lead with the decisions. Stop letting them call the shots. Right now, you're always waiting for these guys to ask because your answer is always yes.

It's true. Well, you got to change it. You're the one looking for patterns. I know. This is good. All right. Well, go have fun in your whatever this is tonight and start making decisions for yourself and start taking your power back and speak up and stop looking for validation with these guys. And then regardless of, you know, assuming nothing happens with this guy,

if you get back into the single dating pool, slow down, you know, I think so too. Don't be so proactive with dating, be available, keep those doors and windows open, but you don't have to necessarily go hunting or, you

know, so to speak. Right. All right. Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, good luck. Have fun tonight.

Thank you. Merry Christmas. Happy holidays. Happy New Year. Thank you. You too. All right. Take care.

All right. All right. Thanks, Nick. Yeah. Bye-bye. Well, thank you guys for listening. Once again, want to thank you all for tuning in this year. It's been a hell of a year.

We got a hell of a year lined up for your next year. We love you all. Stay safe this New Year's Eve, whatever you guys decide to do. And we'll see you in the new year. Bye.