The Viall Files - E688 Going Deeper with Katie Maloney and Dayna Kathan - Disrespectfully, Hickeys, and RHOSLC Recap

Episode Date: January 4, 2024

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Going Deeper Edition! To start things out, we have to break down the recent drama on Real Housewives of Salt Lake City - from Monica to Heather and everything that is revealed about the Instagram troll account. Then today we are joined by Katie Maloney and Dayna Kathan to talk about their new podcast Disrespectfully! We also dive into their dating life, a recent party that created some drama, and Vanderpump Rules Season 11 tea and predictions. Finally, we have a Texting Office Hours caller who isn’t sure if she should stay in a loveless marriage or file for divorce.  “I was collecting hickeys like Pokemon.”  Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes. Listen To Disrespectfully now! Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/disrespectfully/id1516710301\ Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0J6DW1KeDX6SpoVEuQpl7z?si=c35995a56b8d4038 Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCh8MqSsiGkfJcWhkan0D0w To Order Nick’s Book Go To: http://www.viallfiles.com  If you would like to get some texting advice on Office Hours send an email to [e-mail] with “Texting Office Hours” in the subject line! To advertise on the show, contact [e-mail] or visit https://www.advertisecast.com/TheViallFiles  THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Hinge - Manifest the dating experience you want this year - Download Hinge and find someone worth deleting the app for. Drizly - Download the Drizly app or go to https://www.Drizly.com Must be 21+, not available in all locations. Hungryroot -  Go to https://www.Hungryroot.com/viall to get 40% off your first delivery and get your free veggies for life. Rocket Money - Stop wasting money on things you don’t use. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions by going to https://www.RocketMoney.com/VIALL  One Skin -  Get 15% off OneSkin with the code VIALL at https://www.oneskin.co/  #oneskinpod Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @nnataliejjoy @musickillskate @dadadayns @alison.vandam @dereklanerussell 

It's a new year and that means new opportunities to make connections. But when it comes to dating, it can be tough to put yourself out there and know where to start. And that's why we are excited to talk about Hinge, the dating app designed to be deleted. It's not the time to rack up validation points. It's about meeting people, making connections and trying to get off the apps. And Hinge is helping people do that better than ever in 2024. Hinge is the perfect dating app to use in the new year because it really allows you to go beyond the surface,

express your personality, and meet people who are on the same page as you. And at the beginning of the year is the best time to refresh your profile on Hinge, whether that's updating your photos or your dating goals, and maybe just change up the prompts. I feel like that's the most fun part about Hinge is seeing what people have to say

or maybe what they're looking forward to or something they want to learn this year. That way you can start a really fun conversation. Manifest the dating experience you want this year. Download Hinge and find someone worth deleting the app for. what's going on everybody welcome back to a new and exciting episode of the vile files going deeper edition i'm your host nick Nick. Joined by the household. We got my love, Natalie Joy. How are you? Here we are. I'm stunning.

Justin's in the house. We got Allie coming from St. Paul, Minnesota. And Kiki. And Kiki. Oh, Kiki. Where's Kiki? And then we have the rest of the troops cranking away. Elves.

The minions. The elves. What should we call? So what should we call the household? That rest of the troops cranking away elves the minions the elves what should we call and so like what should we call like the household that's not maybe not minions yeah minion seems a bit me elves seems a bit like out of season there's no bad idea in brainstorming i'm just like that's why we're uh we're thinking about this you know we could circle back you know well anytime i talk to derrick about it I'm like oh I just texted the kiddos I was like I sent this over to the kiddos yeah that's a little condescending too I don't know if it's any better than the elves

I thought it was cute you mean the minions alright well we'll work on it if anyone has any suggestions yeah sure yeah it's like the um fire away it's like the bee hat for Beyonce yes yes we don't want to steal anything from beyonce so but like like the beehive like i'm not saying yeah yeah

yeah well we got some really exciting news we got the one and only katie maloney and data kathan with us to well first talk about obviously the upcoming season of antipop obviously obviously uh tell some of their uh you know, fun and interesting stories. And honestly, the reason they really are here is to announce and promote their new show, their new podcast, Disrespectfully, that is premiering under our network. That's right. Envy Media. It's the first of its kind.

FileFiles, obviously, being the flagship. But it's something that as a show I've been wanting to do for a long time, and honestly, I wanted to do it right. I wanted to take my time. We like doing things, I guess right here. We don't like doing things wrong.

But we've made our mistakes in the past, sure, but it was a long time coming with Dana and Katie, and I couldn't be more excited to have them be a part of our team here at Envy Media in the Vile Files household. I mean, they really are a part of the household, you know. Or the beehive or like the beehive. Or like the beehive. Yeah. So it's so exciting. I can't wait to you guys to hear this episode. New episodes. Their show will be premiering on January 10th

on Wednesday. Wherever you listen to your podcast, you'll be able to watch it on YouTube, just like you consume our show, you'll be able to consume theirs. And I hope you check it out. But it's gonna be great. I mean, if you... You know what? We'll let you listen

to the episode. We have so much other stuff to get into. I cannot wait for the week ahead next week. Again, reminder that we have a special Going Deeper episode dropping on Monday. I don't think anyone's prepared. I don't think anyone's prepared. I don't think anyone's prepared.

I mean, we've never moved an ass, Nick. Just for like... Anyone. For anyone. But we're doing it for this these people little tease we're so excited and honestly the

that we're not like when we kick off next week that's us getting started yeah like it just like continues continues to just go and go like there's no like drop off it's just like oh my oh it's anyways, uh, pay attention somewhere sometime on Friday.

We will share sometime tomorrow. We will share this exciting news with you. Hopefully it all works out. Fingers crossed. Fingers crossed. Anyways, it's going to be grand. I'm excited to,

we have so many exciting things here at the Vile Files to be sharing with you. We had our best year ever last year, and this year is going to be even better. It's going to be incredible. Next week will also be our five-year anniversary at The Vile Files. Happy birthday. Happy birthday. And last year, of the total downloads we've ever had as a show we did 60 of our downloads all last year oh shoot huh that makes sense out of like the five years that it's of the five years

of its existence and we're going well are we am i going to my fifth year is our fifth year anniversary so we've had four years i feel like we've had five years? I feel like it was... Or is it we've had five years? Started in 19. So 19, 20, 21... Four years. 22, 23. We've had five years. All of 23. All of 19. All of 20.

All of 21. All of 22. And all of 23. This is brutal. I didn't study math. So we're going into our sixth year. We're podcasters, not math people. Keep your day job.

So in our fifth year of existence, we had 60% of our total downloads in the history of the show. That's a lot. No, in your fourth year. No, Allie. We're going into our sixth year. I graduated high school in 2019.

And I just graduated college. So that means it's almost exactly, it's right over four years. You were in college for four years. We started January of 2019. Yeah, we're not going into our sixth year. We're going into our fifth year. No.

So we started, we premiered The Vow Files in January of 19. So we recorded all of January 19. That's one year. We're going into our fifth year. We recorded all of January 2020. That's two years. We recorded all of january 2020 that's two years we recorded all of 2021 that's three years we recorded all of 22 that's four years we recorded all of 23 that's five years it's now 2024 so we're 2020 2020 into 2021 21 into 22 22 and 23 23 into 24 so

that's five years so we're entering in our fifth year ally you're the smartest person in this room i'm not even in the room yes you are but if we if we recorded all of january 19th if all right we started in january of 19th all right and if i would have ended the show in that december we were recorded for a year and then so we recorded all of year 2020 that was our second year of existence and then we didn't shut it down we kept going and in 2021 we recorded a whole nother year of episodes and then in 2022 is by this time next year we'll be coming up on six yeah we're going into our sixth year i think you're right i rest my case i rest my case anyway um yeah so in our you should just have Derek like really just speed all that up in our fifth year of existence we

did 60% of our total downloads this has been the best year ever and in 2022 we were also named one of the fastest growing podcasts in 2022 and yet 2023 is even a bigger year so this is all to say thank you everyone for supporting our show and it's

been fun to continue to grow. We're only getting bigger and better than ever before. We're going to break major records this year. It's going to be amazing. We're going to have the best month this month, and it's only going to get better. And I'm so excited to be sharing with you. And we're so excited to having Katie and Dana join our team. It's going to be incredible.

And I'm glad you stuck with us during that whole math session that we had. They didn't. Yeah, you're still here, by the way. We're talking to crickets. What the fuck are these people doing? Okay, so did anyone watch Salt Lake City this week? Oh my God.

Incredible. I watched it twice. Allie, did you watch it? I have never seen an episode of the Housewives. This is the episode you need to watch. Here you go. Did you make this? Justin did. Me and Allison. Of course. What was this, by the way?

What was... Earlier in the season, they did a Pilgrim episode and each Housewife made a doll of themselves, which is like a Utah Mormon thing. Is this supposed to be me or you? You. Obviously. Because like the orange and the black hair.

And the beard that I don't have. Okay. Yeah. The spinning image. Honestly, I'm sorry. I didn't, you know. Yeah. Mister take the initiative.

So now with you having that, you have to, what is the question? The unsolved mystery? We have to know an unsolved mystery about you. Yeah. An unsolved mystery about me. Because we're at the Bermuda Triangle. That's tough because I'm here all the time.

It's just such an open book. Okay, Monica. What's an unsolved secret about you? He asked me this question at the dinner and I don't. We have to get to know Justin more. I still don't know the answer to that. I've been here for how many episodes? Six hundred and... Eighty-eight. Eighty-eight. Thank you,

Allie. Wait, that's not fair. You're flipping it on me. That's your doll. What's an unsolved mystery about me? What are... Or what's something you've never said publicly? Oh, yeah. Well, I'm ready now ready now well you have the doll so you don't really have a choice i haven't said it yet chances are

uh anyways he is going to love jeff more than our daughter that's not true okay what were you saying all the same what happened last night? The Housewives episode. True. It was a lot of takes. Some would argue that Monica had the single most impactful single season in reality TV history. And certainly Housewives history. Hard to argue against that. Yeah.

I would agree. Did you see this coming? No. because we were kind of all wrong we thought this was had everything to do with like heather and her salon didn't who was it when rachel lindsey was on and we were like i feel like something came up about like reality von teese but we were all just kind of like okay whatever i didn't even know what real who who or what reality von teese does the account still exist because i tried to look it up i don't think it who or what Reality Von Teese was. Does the account still exist? Because I tried to look it up. I don't think it does, but I will say Monica was posting pictures of her

with burned newspapers. I saw. New York Times, and it was Reality Von Teese, and it was pictures of her. I saw that. So she's mocking it. I don't think it exists. But I will say,

as someone who watched every episode of that whole show, her being revealed as Reality Von Teese was the ball drop drop oh because they've mentioned this account throughout like every season and like every housewife at some point has accused the other housewife of being a part of it so that's why like when heather brought them to the beach and she was like she's reality von teese they were like they were shook right because they've all like accused each other and attacked each other why had they been accusing each other of this? Because Monica, granted, we don't know her extent of how involved she was with the account, but the secrets that were posted on the account were, like, personal secrets that only the

girls knew. So that's why Heather... Yeah, but, like, everyone talks and everyone tells someone. True. And Salt Lake City is small. And Salt Lake City is small. And, like, someone could have told someone who told someone. Salt Lake City is small.

Salt Lake City is small. And someone could have told someone who told someone. I mean, I feel like this episode, I honestly hope it's a potential referendum on anonymous fan accounts. I think for this show specifically. Because even the prior season, like this last season, there was another housewife, or she was a friend of the show, Angie H. So not Angie K, but Angie H.

She left the show because she was getting bullied for having a fake account. So she got caught and then people were accusing her of potentially being a part of this new account as well. So she was guilty. She was guilty of one of the accounts. That was talking shit about them. Do you think there's anyone in Bachelor Nation

who's running one of these fan accounts? Well shit about that do you think there's anyone in bachelor nation who's running one of these like fan accounts well now it makes you wonder right i mean it wouldn't be that hard it's so easy to set one up yeah but like i mean these are these are online bullies like all of them and if you that's the thing if if you're gonna be an anonymous account you're a bully whether you intend to be a bully or not you're a bully. Whether you intend to be a bully or not, you're a bully. At least have the guts to put your name behind what you say and what you put out so that if people disagree with what you have to say, they can at least hold you accountable. But the fact that people can have the ability to hide behind the anonymity and spill dirty little secrets that may or may not be true about other people and then hold these

people emotionally hostage even if it's true like what gives people the right to tell other people's secrets right and and and it's also not all always true and then these people lose sight of a there's no one holding them accountable they get rewarded by the clicks and the attention that their accounts draw and they get fans just like everyone else and they lose sight of like reason and and they you know start spewing their own beliefs and own opinions of which again everyone as a as a fan is entitled to do but when you have this anonymity um you put yourself at risk of just being a bully because you can't be held account you know you can do it you can do and say whatever you want about whoever and be this kind of righteous voice uh without anyone being able to hold you to account

and yeah i had so much empathy for these ladies while watching this because I know what it's like to be a target of some of these fan accounts that are anonymous in nature, who have built up shows. Like, I have chosen to be in the public light. That is a choice I have made. I am on a show. I give my very honest opinion about my peers sometimes that people agree and disagree with. And when they disagree with me, I have no problem with people making commentary and comments and saying whatever the hell, right? But, like, when it's behind anonymity, you know, and you can say or do whatever you want and you can make up stuff and rumors and spread lies um that is a whole different side of things it's a whole different situation and it is very triggering i i like for these women to like have been attacked by these people and clearly with monica like i i honestly think like a lot of these accounts i'm referring

to i i do think they're well intentioned for the most part i don't even think they are trying and realize how they can be bullies at times but they kind of make up their own rules of what they think they should post or what they shouldn't post etc etc but like monica man she was it sounds like this account was out for blood and i mean it was created to take jenshaw down yeah so like before jen went to prison she was leaking like private recordings of jen talking which were then used well could have been evidence in court it was like her abusing her staff or something right it was like her saying well monica monica was a witness against Jen Shaw, but Jen technically never went to a physical trial,

so she never had to speak. Monica is a morally bankrupted person. But she's a good TV. She's a great TV. Do we think she was planted by producers? Do we think they knew that she was reality Von Teese and And they said, this will be an insane season. Because she, who else? She was what, Jinshaw's like assistant, right?

She's poor. She doesn't have money. She's not like your typical housewife. Yeah. I thought that was a big red flag before we got to the big reveal of like Monica being like, if these women knew, like I couldn't afford x y or z and to me that was such a big red flag she just comes across as someone who is trying to be

something she's not and she is justifying all her lies because like oh i can't afford you know like it's it's such a fraud and at first it probably maybe maybe it was innocent you know just trying to fit in but for the sake of fitting in she has clearly been lying through her teeth for a long time. And she doesn't know where the lies stop and the truth begins. I don't think they knew about the troll account. But I think they knew that because she was a witness in Jen Shaw's case, they were like, that's probably what they wanted to capitalize on. And then this came up and they were like, oh, gee, that's the drama. Really?

Yeah. Because that only happened in the very last episode so i think if they knew that this drama was going to come out they would have planned it so that they could talk about it more throughout the season if that makes sense yeah you don't think they would have put it at the end to get everyone excited for season five are you, so are you talking about producers? Yeah. I feel like they would have used this a little bit earlier on. But it's like Monica made the season. It's like we didn't need it. She was so dramatic enough.

She started enough fights. And it's all about timing. Yeah. If they would have revealed this like in episode two, it loses steam. Maybe. I think what makes it.

Yeah. What makes it so worse is that she sat with these women. She did. You know, like she spent like Meredith said, three months, obviously, like filming this season and like listen to them event and like be there for them and and to then find out like she's could potentially use everything that they have said to her and confided in her and it'd be posted it's so icky you know like when you let someone into your personal space and they violate that by like thinking they're there to be a friend or you know or just listen to you or whatever it is. And they take that information and they go and share it, you know, behind your back. Like it's such a violation, even if, even if it's

well-intentioned, you know, when you think that like, and it's not about like keeping like dirty little secrets, it's just about like, you know, you let someone into your home, your personal space, and maybe, you know, you want to be your truest self around them, you know, and you just want to maybe act in a way that like, you just don't want everyone to give commentary on. I don't, I don't even know what it is, but for someone to come in there and pretend to be a friend when all they're really doing is documenting, you know, what you say or what you do, and then sharing that for clout or clicks or gossip, it is such an inky feeling and i got no patience for all the people out there who are trying to defend monica over the

fact that like because of what jen shaw did they're completely separate things you can criticize jen shaw and hold her accountable and still think monica is a shitty fucking person but this idea that they're like oh well they're just like defending jen shaw and monica is just trying to expose jen shaw and blah blah blah blah blah it's like are you fucking kidding me like clearly she didn't tell these people who she was yeah and who's the one who was laughing who's is angie also kind of so i think but i think that's a big also like bombshell that she drops because she says like all of you guys have been involved in some way i and she has secret like she's posting secrets so like they all i don't possibly fed listen it's not a good look no it's not great i'll give you that

as someone who knows what it's like to deal with these types of fan accounts and bullies and and things like that i think you know you know when people say like keep your friends close but your enemies closer i think you could argue very easily the psychology behind why these women chose to like get on this account's good side then laugh on their jokes because like as long as they're not going after me and again you could criticize for example angie of like not being in solidarity with these other women and things like that i'm not letting her off the hook or anyone else who participated in that type of like validating criticism towards other people and things like that but i get the psychology because i do truly believe that all of

these women lived in fear of this account of what like if you wake up what are they gonna fucking say what you know what are they saying about me what lies are they gonna put out there what am i gonna have to deal with how am i gonna have to have to address that? We live in a world where we are living online and the fact that all these social media accounts allow people to have these massive fucking platforms without putting out who they are and not having no accountability whatsoever is fucking nuts to me it's absolutely nuts i think it's also like i loved how first of all the editing of this entire episode ali you need to just watch it and channel it was so insane she was like it was just like the thunder and like the like it was just it was crazy yeah it's great for inspo it It is great for inspo. But the fact that like Heather called the three of them, the four of them to meet down at the beach and to be like, listen, like we've all been through this. This is how I want to. This is how I want it to play out.

This is how I'm going to confront her. But then they all sit down at the dinner and they all play along with the game. Like Whitney gets mad at Lisa and like they all kind of like and the Meredith goes after Heather yeah and it's honestly ruined the drama a little bit for me no I think it did good because you're like oh they're like this is like a boring fight and then it's actually JK we're like planning or like yeah they let like Monica think like oh it's not that bad this is yeah whatever but then for for Meredith for then for them to be like all right Heather it's not that bad this is yeah whatever but then for for meredith for then for them to be like all right heather it's your turn she's like i have meredith but honestly i have nothing i have

to ask meredith but monica and it was like oh shit i was jaw dropped jaw dropped like physically jaw dropped it was just and again as someone who has operated in the reality TV space, just the ickiness of what that would feel like. And again, I saw comments of just like, oh, these people care more about this fake account than what Jen Shaw did to the elderly people. No, that's not what they're doing. They were personally affected and bullied by these women. Of course, they're going to have a visceral reaction to like realizing someone they thought was a friend was actually one of their biggest enemies and she's like heather that is not true that is and then they're like well then tell us what's true and she goes

it's partially true it's like yeah so you first of all you didn't like immediately come clean we have no way and then she starts saying like she wasn't the only one involved. And she the only of course, the only stuff she posted about was Jin Shaw. Of course, because that was her only, you know, like she would never admit to saying anything about any of the other women. I think she's going to admit now. I think she's leaning in. I think she's got. Do you really think she's going to be back next year?

I'm not going to lie. I sent that text before watching the finale, and then I watched the finale twice back to back. So I don't think she's coming back, but I think she's a clean slate for the show because she was involved indirectly with four years of drama, four seasons. I mean, I am really curious to see how the reunion goes.

I think she's going to come out guns a-fucking-blazing. She has a burn book. If you watch like the teaser for the reunion, she has a physical burn book with like pictures. So I think she's going to try to call everybody out.

Can we believe anything she says? I think she has nothing to lose now. So. Yeah. Well, it's not like, it's not like Monica

might be done with this, with Housewives and certainly Salt Lake, but she's not done trying to be relevant no yeah no it's also like i do think she could probably be signed by iheart she yeah truly she'll start a podcast coming soon reality reality von t's no but she like i she couldn't even keep up with all of

her lies like nick said it's like when meredith brought up she went into her store with the blonde wig and stole a clutch or i know she's trying to say it wasn't me who stole a clutch but then fast forward to monica being in there being like oh this is my first time in your store so that's the wild part is that was from season two so she's been in like indirectly involved in every season of the drama because it's a fairly new show but somehow became a housewife on this fourth season so like it is weird how she became a housewife like the fact that producers kind of to nally's point like it's definitely possible yeah they knew the whole time maybe like because why why would they like why cast monica she doesn't have the like housewives credentials, so to speak. She's like a fucking assistant.

She's poor. She's not privileged. I mean, yeah, she's messy. But this isn't a show about like just messy people. It's about rich, out of touch, messy people. Yeah. And she's not. So why did they pick her?

The clutch part was wild that she was in the security cam footage. Because that's from the boondocks of history of the show. Like her mask on, her blonde wig. It's one of those tragic stories. Because maybe somewhere along the lines, Monica wasn't a morally bankrupted person. And I think it's really easy to live a lie. It's very easy to justify you know, justify, well,

I'm just trying to fit in and like, I'm not doing anything wrong, but you get so you, you start getting away with it. And then the lies spilled up and the lies stack. And listen, we've all been there. We've all, again, we've, we've been in situations where we got caught up in lies or whatever. Usually that's when we're younger and you know early adult life and maybe we've had to learn a couple hard lessons but uh the fact that monica is recently removed from her infidelity how she addressed her infidelity she only pretended to be contrite about it and then usually again would follow it up with laughs because it's not even like they used that infidelity as like a storyline there was no like follow-up there was no backstory there was it was just like this is what i did and like

whatever and so it's like i feel like if that were her only crime then they would have focused on it more so they knew so i feel like they knew and it's a very fair question because the the fucking she said the hairstylist heather's hairstylist is the one who tenacia or something was the girl who ran the entire account heather's hairstylist and that's who heather said i called because i said it all started with like the Monica, the three last names. And yeah, it's a bit of a coincidence that Heather found this all out while at Bermuda filming the finale. The timing was impeccable. Yeah, it was good.

Now. These are these women are professionals and it's not like they haven't filmed scenes or reenacted scenes and things like that. So it's definitely possible that Heather didn't actually find out when she found out. But there's no way she would have been able to go on that trip, celebrate Monica's birthday, feel bad for Monica when she couldn't see her family. There was just no way that she could fake all of that. You know what I thought about last night as I was going to bed, the fucking birthday,

the pirate thing. Fucking Heather, like a trooper, dressed up in this ridiculous pirate costume. Right? Then she also, and then the, whose idea was to do the drag party?

Whitney. It was Whitney's because she's friends with Tracy. That was Whitney. Okay, but, Heather's always been a team player but like the whole pirate thing looked ridiculous and Heather here she was to your point supporting her friend Monica and Heather might be like fuck this person like I

did all this yeah maybe you're I don't know so I think she found out when she found out also not Monica literally saying talking about when Heather pulled Monica on the beach and she was like, do you really think Meredith would do this? And she was like, I don't know if she'd make a fake account. Like, I didn't think any of you bitches would. I probably would. But I don't think they would. Like, she literally admitted to doing it. Jokingly, because she thought she'd never get caught.

Monica is one of those, like, she's a fan first. She was a poor, morally bankrupted fan who got a little bit of access becoming an assistant to Jen Shaw and leveraged that into... Just kept going. And honestly, like, Monica, this is like an L.A. playbook.

You know what I'm saying? Like, L.A. is full of social climbing friends who really don't do anything and they always seem to be friends with multiple celebrities and they're on some sort of multiple celebrity rotation and like they have this weird kind of micro following basically because of who they their friends are and if you pay attention you know it, these people are easy to figure out. But that's who Monica is. She's a social climber who got good at befriending people in power and access.

And she manipulated her way into getting in the same rooms of these people, building trust, and then using it against them. I'm curious to see if Monica's mom is going to speak out about Monica. Probably. But honestly, like it's just like two shitty people,

you know? Sure. But I would just entertaining wise. I mean, excellent TV. She is not a good person. Yeah. There is a three part reunion,

which is like a big thing because usually it's two parts, if not one. I mean, like Vanderpump was three parts, but yeah, you need a banger of a finale. Yeah.

And again, timing, that's what I'm saying. If this secret was dropped in episode two or three, I don't know if you really need a three-part reunion. You have all episode to deal and address,

whatever. And this has been an epic season already. And now you get a three-parter i think i almost feel like the bombshell of the black eye was supposed to be the finale like that was supposed to be the big secret but then it just like kept why is that such a big deal to be honest because so that was last season's finale finale trip that's when jen all the women were drunk they were dressed up as marilyn monroe they're running around angie k's

vacation house in san diego topless really drunk and then jen and heather the last ones awake and they set it up as like paranormal activity vibes so you see like the cameras like up in the ceilings and like heather's door is like wiggling and someone comes in but you don't see who it is she wakes up with a black eye heather goes on two separate shows like two separate seasons ultimate girl strip was one of them and she goes i don't know who it was i was drunk i fell and like hit my face on like a cabinet even though it's like a clear black eye even like meredith she like jokes around about being heather's like lawyer she's like you can't speak like it might be something obviously there's footage out there that exists of someone punching

her but we don't know who it is jen's in active litigation so they're like speculating that jen hit her but heather wants to protect her because she doesn't want to like increase the sentence why is heather seemingly protecting that's the thing because she thought she was best friends or whatever but that's why when she dropped it here it was like oh shoot she admitted it yeah you would assume that it's real because if Bravo is going to say that then they probably

have the footage to back it up which in fact Jen Shaw is posting on Instagram from prison stating just that

that like if Bravo had if she punched Heather then she would have they would have this footage and if they had this footage

they would certainly have aired it and the fact that they haven't aired it means it didn't exist I think they have it then. And if they had this footage, they would certainly have aired it. And the fact that they haven't aired it means it didn't exist. I think they have it. Then why wouldn't they use it? Because why would they let Heather say that?

Yeah. That's like a legal thing, right? If she had said that. I mean, that's assault. Yeah. They would have just edited her out and been like, sorry, Heather,

I know you wanted it, but we can't. I'm not following. Bravo wouldn't have aired Heather saying that Jen Shaw punched her. Why not? Because then they can... Jen would come back and sue them. Yeah.

Jen could sue Bravo? For saying that Heather, that I punched Heather. When she didn't. But it's... Because Heather's saying that she was assaulted. These women lie about each other all the fucking time. But that's, like, physical... But we know there's footage.

And that's, like... Like, that's assault like no one i know it used to be a thing in housewives where they would like actually like throw drinks and throw things and people but like they really don't do that anymore i was gonna say producers only get involved if they're gonna have a physical altercation so if you watch back this finale you'll see like in the background the producers are like opening the door and they're like looking to the side. Like, should I stop it? Should I stop it?

When Lisa stood up. When Lisa stood up because they don't know if they're going to fight. So they try to stop it if they know something physical is going to happen. So that's why it's like, OK. So I think if they did not have the footage. They would not have let they would not have aired Heather saying that because Jin Shaw could be like, this is defamation like this like this you know like i never fucking hit her y'all know that y'all have the footage nothing happened that night i did not come in that room i'm suing y'all but i think they i think they have footage of it happening whether it's like some small camera up and up like so why not just air it though what if that's like what's what's their, that might, maybe that's part of the reunion. That's probably legal as well.

Maybe. Why is it illegal? Legal as in like maybe, because they exploit the housewives for like drama, but they also protect them. Yeah. Like they cut stuff out.

It's a balancing act, sure. But like, why would they be protecting Jen Shaw at this point? I don't know. I feel like it might be like, you know,

assault happened on their. Like a serious topic, maybe? I don't know. But what if they do air it at the reunion? What if that's part of... To me, this is all like inconsequential compared to what Monica has done and the betrayal of being a backstabbing internet bully. No, it definitely is.

It was a cherry on top. Yeah. It was just like, oh, and also... Who punched who back then? Fuck, I don't know well that's the thing this finale was like a book end for like the end of the era of the four seasons because they referenced like so many different things that nobody had answers for and now it's kind of like oh what if they don't come back for season five so that's what i was talking to someone and they were like this might be them like restarting the franchise

because like there's not many storylines happening now it's just people like closing off they're like but these are iconic yeah i agree women and a salt lake city like just oversaturated with these out of touch um personalities could they replace all of these women well they wouldn't have to replace all of them, but you know how they like do Beverly Hills where they kind of just like bring in. Beverly Hills,

sure, like it's Beverly Hills. It's full of out of touch rich people. I don't know, maybe they can. I don't know. I don't want Heather to be gone.

Me neither. If you watch every season, Heather's like, her one-liners lead the narrative of the whole show. It's like this season, she was narrating the whole season if you notice.

Lisa's my least favorite. I like her. I don't know her, but she's just my least favorite. She's a rich person that only eats fast food. You can really tell. I also think, I don't even know what my,

listen, obviously, if you're in the public eye, you have some narcissism in you. Doesn't mean you're a narcissist, but clearly, what's your selfie count babe that's not so bad how do you find that just go down to your uh folder go to your folders two thousand three hundred and nine five thousand four hundred and eighty that's not bad at all

i mean compared to this was like what thirty thousand or something it was close to thirty thousand yeah i mean that does that five000 that does says that says something about all of us you know it says something about you like the higher it is the more what if

the more narcissistic you are what if Nick's was like 48,000 2,300 2,000 mine's 138 you are less narcissistic

than us I'm 3,800 or I'm just uglier Justin's 3,800 so yes that's crazy that is fuck man 3,800. Or I'm just uglier. Justin's 3,800. Yes. That's crazy.

Fuck, man. What a wild episode. There's probably a lot more to unpack. Obviously, we have a three-part reunion. Maybe we'll get some of these housewives on the show. I think we will. So do. I think Heather stopped you somewhere and said, I have a lot to say. I know, but we haven't locked it in yet.

Until she's on this couch, she is not on the show. But I feel good about getting at least one of these ladies to share their truth. Would we give Monica a chance? I think she'd just come in here and just talk bullshit. But I think that'd be worth. Should we go to Jen Shaw's prison and do an interview? interview yeah only if you bring me okay can i go to prison yeah we all meet where is she where is she is she in salt lake city is she i don't know but she's in like one of the nice ones where it's more like before she's yeah whatever fancy fancy well she still has instagram

so apparently yeah um okay well it's time to get to katie and dana again uh so excited about the launch of disrespectfully coming to you january 10th every wednesday after that uh be sure to check it out you will not regret it we have some major major interviews dropping this month so excited to bring them to you cannot Cannot wait to share more with you. Pay attention tomorrow for some news. It's going to be grand. All right, let's get to Katie and Dana. Drizzly, the number one way to buy beer, wine, and spirits with delivery to your doorstep when you need it. The number one app for alcohol delivery.

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We're so excited. We're so excited to be here. Very excited. Cat's out of the bag because now everyone knows that Katie and Dana are launching their hit show, Disrespectfully, on the NV Media Network. Teared? Teared? Teared? Teared? Teared?

Teared? Teared? Teared? Teared? Teared? Teared? Teared? Teared?

Teared? Teared? Teared? Teared? Teared? Teared? Teared? Teared?

Teared? Congratulations to everyone in this room. We're so excited. It's been a long time coming, hasn't it, ladies? It's been a very long time coming. I think the first time that her and I spoke about doing a joint podcast was January, February of last year.

So before we even got connected. So long time. Love that. And then we have all become friends this past year. I think Katie first came up we met katie with ariana in vegas yes oh yes we did and i actually went sit at the same hotel for my bachelor party and i really thought of uh what's funny because the day you two finally signed our little agreement um i was at that hotel which was the first place that I had met you, Katie.

What a full circle moment. I thought that was a bit poetic and full circle. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. I was like texting you guys a big congratulations, the same lobby that I had met Katie. Look at God.

Crazy. And it's always been the easiest that Katie is my favorite character on Vanderpump Rules. Do you really mean that no i really do everybody no he definitely does not know it's sometimes because i i consider all of you guys friends i've been friendly with all of you guys i've known some more than others but like i have like i haven't really been critical of you and it's not because i haven't not that i well i certainly have tried not to i suppose as once we you know this ball got rolling but it does make it easier that you're my

favorite character because sometimes i have had to say some things and then i'll meet y'all in person i'm like oh they didn't listen like has anyone ever called you out no i will say like you know the vanderpump cast as a whole like you guys are pros and i feel like you guys have been through so much you've had so much said about you good bad i mean yeah at this point it's like i don't think you guys take all that stuff so personally so i'm not too worried about it um bachelor people are a little different there's some sensitive souls there well i think some people definitely take things a little bit more personally. Like Sheena?

I think Sheena has a harder time with criticism, yeah. Yeah. She's a sensitive, She's a sensitive. A sensitive person. How are you and Sheena? I think we're, you know, we're good. Like we're fine.

We're fine. Yeah. We're good or fine. Are we more fine than good or more fine than fine? We're're good i mean i i haven't seen her in a minute but um i think contrary to what people might be thinking yeah you're fine yes before we get into all the vanderpump and i have plenty to get into because obviously the season is approaching let's talk about disrespectfully let's my favorite topic well i'm so excited just because obviously when thinking about what i wanted like this network to be and what i wanted to represent obviously you two ladies i think

embody that you know this is the vile files is an audience of mostly millennial women we love our men who listen but the millennial women run strong on this and i think you two represent that uh so well we talk a lot about relationships and dating. We are connected very much into pop culture. And, you know, Katie and Dana, obviously you have been like, you know, so open about your dating lives. And for me, when thinking about what this show could be, it was like, there's so much about your guys' lives that I don't think people get to see, even though they get to watch so much of you on Banner Pump. your guys' lives that I don't think people get to see, even though they get to watch so much of you on Banner Pump. And like the kind of the authenticity of like what you guys are going through,

you know, Katie, your divorce with Tom has been something that's been very talked about. And now that you're out there braving the dating world, which we know a lot about, you know, as a show that we talk a lot, it's a grind out there. And you as well, Dana, like just to be able to hear very relatable stories about what it's like to kind of brave that world through the lens of you too, I think is going to be a lot of fun for people to listen to.

You've been in your AD era for a while, which is life after divorce. Yes. And I consider you thriving. So it's been definitely a new chapter. I would say that there's moments of thriving and then there's moments of just surviving merely just trying to just you know be in the streets and i mean sometimes it's so grim it's just like wow like this is really what it is because the landscape had totally changed from the time i was 24 and dating it changed and then it didn't change like it's still what can be expected like you know men are not okay no and i want to be a city girl

so bad but i'm a lover girl like i am like you're just talking about sensitivity i'm so sensitive and yeah the landscape is brutal i'm still a lover girl lover girl yeah want to be a city girl how did you two become friends from vanderpump rules we met so that's that's how you met yeah yeah uh season eight she came on the show and uh i just like really quickly took to her i just thought she was just like a just a cool gal that i wanted to like hang around will you be gracing us in season 11 at all i filmed a tiny bit i left the show for a lot of reasons but one of which it just it was toxic for me and i give so much credit to anyone who does reality tv it's way harder than it looks oh my god so so so much harder i love don't you love when people are like

you know what you signed up for and i'm like are you fucking okay like I didn't know any you don't know what you don't know so when you're in it it's so much harder so this year I did think about coming back I filmed and immediately was like I cannot do this so I don't even know if what I filmed will make it but um you got PTSD I may I called her like I had a panic attack the next morning like full-blown screaming crying panic attack and was like I had didn't even realize I was like Well, I'm in a better place now and you know, so mentally stable blah blah blah and then uh, nope so Funneling that to a podcast. Yeah fucked around fucked around and found out. What was the thing that gave you the most anxiety?

I had a um a work situation so people always assume that i was just a server and um i actually was in healthcare sales like i had a corporate job when i started filming the show and they had me work at the restaurants to kind of fit me in because i was just a random and um i had a work situation that went really south because my company at the time was not okay with the show. And so I've been with my current company for like three years and I like my job. And I immediately was like, holy shit, I cannot threaten my livelihood and just wasn't worth it. And there was a lot of shouting.

The day that I filmed, this situation erupted and the cortisol in the room was like, so occupational hazard, occupational hazard. I don't know. They just may have a more iron stomach than I do for that. And like, I'm good at confrontation when it arises, but it's not something I like. Like,

I don't like always feeling like there's a fight around the corner. I don't like that either, but it's just, it is an occupational hazard, you know? Yeah. Well, now you get to vent vent on your show yeah right so thrilled to be doing this with her and a little passion project that doesn't involve me getting screamed at how was your ladies holiday what's it what'd you guys

do well i mean christmas i just spent it with my mom and my my grandparents it was a very very low key christmas but then for new year's i went to nashville to hang out with kristen or caitlyn why can't i i would i have i have christians and caitlyn's in my life and i constantly am always mixing up with caitlyn bristow who lives there she had like a little party and my friend bailey who or our friend bailey who lives in Vancouver came down as well. That party seemed to stir up some drama. I heard something. You're not aware?

Of course I'm aware. I'm not aware. Tell me. We even talked about your time. I'm tapped out. I don't know if it's my... I'm not going to throw anyone under the bus. Oh, I don't want you to throw anyone under the bus. Is there someone to... What did you hear? Well you hear well there was some like footage

taken right of some people right kind of wrapped around each other you know really entangled it looks like the clock was about to strike 12 so it was like oh is this a new year's kiss situation i only became aware when i saw a screenshot of your friend caitlin uh it was post that she posted on her story in response to it seemed to be some criticism she was receiving yeah she was getting a lot of that and it was really i felt unfair and really harsh like very extreme criticism. What was the criticisms? Well, just, I think people were just treating her as if she had committed some serious

crime just for, you know, maybe hanging out with some, hanging out with somebody. Yeah. Uh, you know, and it's just,

it's just, it's, it's just a case of people maybe not thinking or thinking that they know more than they do. Okay. So it's a, it's a frustrating place to be in because I've been there myself with just, you know, people being particularly hard on you

and you not being able to just fully defend yourself in the way you want to. Is there something going on between her and Zach? That's not for me to- Not for you to say. Not for me to say. Okay. Okay. So not no. It's not for me. I don't want okay okay so not no it's not for me i don't want to speak

on what is happening in a personal life i don't want to it's my listen you'll get it as a as a now host of a successful podcast you're gonna have to ask some tough questions to each other no to your guests it's fair and i thought you you might i was prepared but you know i just we wish whoever dates in bachelor nation nothing but the best i have no opinion on it whatsoever but i just here to ask you no opinion whatsoever truly i don't he does a job to ask yes of course of course i'm not i'm not knocking you for doing your job i don't give a fuck who dates in bachelor nation and if two people are single they have every right i'm good to shit amen and it takes two to tangle tangle tango tango tango yeah so was the other person zachary receiving any hate mail i don't i didn't ask

was this unfolding the night of or the next day the drama i think it was the next day right because i think that's when when i don't know when v post people post these things i mean i think that there was like a video posted that night i would assume and then i'm sure everyone immediately saw it but she might not have noticed it until the next day was it her her photo or did someone else? I think it was someone else. They were just in the frame. Did you kiss anyone at midnight? No. I mean, you know, you kiss your friends. Yeah, I've been here, but no.

No kiss for Katie. What about you, Dana? Yeah, who are you kissing? I kissed a gorgeous, gorgeous girl. Her name is Laszlo, my new cat. I'm obsessed with her. We had quite the make out.

I didn't do anything because I was in Toronto for Christmas and was in the countryside for most of the trip and had to go get my new kitten and come home. So I was just in matching PJs with our good friend Raleigh, drinking boob and eating pasta. It was great. I loved it. I was asleep by 12.15. How long have you been single for, Dana? It's been 84 years.

I was waiting for that. You know, on and off for a long time, probably like seven years, but have learned a lot. And what we, I mean, back to disrespectfully, like the lessons have been bountiful and a lot of it has been bad tasting medicine. So I feel like her and I both offer a unique perspective on a lot of it. But I imagine I still have many more lessons in my future. Every time I meet someone who I think is great, I'm like, oh, this is so exciting. And then a month later, it's like lesson. So we'll see.

Yeah. How did you guys come up with the name Disrespectfully? I think it just embodies sort of the attitude that we've embraced when it comes to being unapologetic in our ways. I think Katie and I are both people who just are who we are. And you can take that or leave it. So Disrespectfully really captured like this is what it is. So we're going gonna offend people hopefully probably possibly well i mean at this point i think if like you don't want to be in a in women today in society you know still with you know misogyny being so rampant uh you know women if

you're not affable and pleasing and you know looked at in a certain way you know you get judged and i think that's just not the way you we don't want to be like tiptoeing and walking on eggshells through life especially when you're just trying to you know have a good time yeah and it's not even just misogyny like internalized misogyny like it's so crazy how much of it comes from women obviously like that as well which i'm sure you're trying to say but like yeah and we just don't subscribe to that they don't care about anyone else's rules or what they want for you you mentioned earlier that some things are similar and some things are different when it comes to dating what has been something that you think hasn't changed since you were last on the hard-hitting

dating streets and what is something that you found to be new what's new is is me obviously i'm i'm a lot more grown and mature and confident as a person you know i mean your 20s compared to your mid to late 30s are like night and day so i just me as a person and how i approach things and i'm able to handle things is completely different than when I was in my 20s. But I think what you can expect from other people in terms of like the men out there is pretty much the same. Like there's like they're just so nonchalant. Like there's just so like it's it's. You mean like the the the the classic Tom Schwartz? Not necessarily that, but just these guys just, I mean, they give nothing. Have you. Nothing. Have you been actively trying, like when it comes to like guys that you're pursuing and dating, like how different are they from your ex? Oh, I would say very different they're all

different from each other too okay i'm trying all this all them on oh we're we're we're going for variety right yeah okay we're in a variety era yeah you gotta know like what you're you know what you like what you don't like how long are you with schwartz for 12 years yeah that's a really long time it was so crazy such a long time yeah so and some of them when i when they when i see things that are very similar to tom i'm like this feels really familiar and i like like what specifically like what's a behavior that triggers you that you had to deal with for so many years when it came to your ex-husband? Someone who seems that they just don't want anything too serious. They're very noncommittal. They're just not ready for life in those kind of ways. They're not grown up. They're not

emotionally mature. Have you found that to be something that's age specific with the men that you've dated or not no honestly i like i when it comes to dating i'm not looking for anyone like at of a certain age because truly i think men in their 40s can be very like very immature emotionally and just mentally where men who are in their late 20s or early 30s, their EQ can be higher than mine. There is no like it's just yeah, like I think it just depends on like where you come from and how you're raised and just the things that you've maybe dealt with in life. It's so funny to me when someone says I'm rage i'm raising my age bracket because i'm looking for more maturity and i'm like oh honey no that's not gonna do anything it is case by case have you had

any horror stories of older men oh my god it's also okay so i fuck with apps more than she does um but like you it would shock you the amount of men that are 50 46 47 48 that say on their profile not looking for anything serious and i'm like you're heading toward medicaid what do you mean you're not looking for anything serious what are you looking for yeah i mean just like you got 50 year old men saying that yeah and i would say the most of like horror stories of men i did have one who i can't prove it but i'm pretty sure had a family like i the the sketchiness of of lies on top of lies on top of lies and just things that weren't making sense and almost positive like that was what was going on but also just the the dating pool seems to be a lot of avoidant people avoidant attachment styles right now so

you know they will try to reel you in and, you know, love bombing is real and it's hard to sometimes differentiate between what is love bombing and someone that just likes you. And then all of a sudden when things start getting more serious, they're like, what are you talking about? I didn't say I wanted a relationship. I just said I wanted to see you every day all the time and go shopping together and sleep together every night. And I don't want you to sleep with anyone else, but I don't want to be with you. Are you crazy? And you're like, yeah, I guess I'm just cuckoo.

I guess it locked me up. Sorry. Net job. Yuck. Wild times. Wild times. I will say, and I'm sure that you feel the same way, but the landscape is brutal right now for dating, right? It has changed a lot, even in the time that I've been single.

But something about being in your 30s, like I've never been more sure about who I am and my bandwidth for bullshit is non-existent. Like I just don't have a threshold for things that I used to put up with. so even though it's pretty scary out there it's easier for me to deal with than it's ever been because I'm so quick to totally yeah because as much as like you know sometimes you're like oh am I gonna be like alone for like ever and ever and ever that thought can be a little daunting but also it's like I know what it's like to be with the wrong person and be in a relationship that isn't right and doesn't feel good and that can be more isolating and lonely than anything so it's like to be with the wrong person and be in a relationship that isn't right and doesn't feel good. And that can be more isolating and lonely than anything.

So it's like I would rather just be by myself and be technically alone than be with somebody like that. I completely agree. And furthermore, for some reason, our culture only looks at romantic love as worthy or whatever. And like we have so many great friends and such great relationships around us and there's so much love in our lives. It's like funny that that's the only bar of success. So, yeah, personally. Would you say this is the most content period of both of your lives? Yeah, for me.

I mean, 2023 was a tricky one but yeah it's overall yeah and not even so much because like honestly like who knows what this year is going to bring for all of us right but in terms of like being comfortable in your own skin and confident with yourself and and sure enough yourself to like set up those boundaries or say no to people in ways that i think we mean when i you know i was younger younger in my twenties or like didn't have the confidence to maybe speak up or, or do that where, you know,

the older I got, I got more sure of myself and more just like, you know, comfortable with who I was so that I could just be like, you know, disrespectfully fuck off. Um, and would you say that that's where you ladies are at?

Oh, fully. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't, I didn't even know what boundaries were in my twenties. I didn't, I didn't, I didn't even know what boundaries were in my 20s. I didn't even know what they were,

how to establish them, what I truly wanted for myself. You know, I just was like, I was so desperately seeking validation from outside of myself

that like, that was just not even a thing. I just, yeah. What's an insecurity that you guys both have when it comes to your dating life now with where you're at in your life that you think is, you know, relatable to other women in similar positions that you have that you're in? It's a, that's a really good question. That would have been easier for me to answer two years ago.

Like I have really buttoned things up and I used to be so afraid of being alone. And kind of like what you just said I thought that if I wasn't in a relationship and having someone reflect back to me what I was hoping to see that I didn't have worth and it's just not where I'm at anymore so I mean my only fear is just being too amazing for someone like what can you do I mean it's not insecurity but like it's there's just there's things that i know that about myself that i'm not going to change that could potentially deter somebody like i'm a very direct person and so like i don't have a problem like communicating things straight out

the gate with people and that's when they get they say like oh well i don't like i'm not trying to like get too serious too fast and i'm like i'm just talking yeah this is just i don't just want to have like functional communication i'm like what am i just going to be like cool right now and then drop the mask and then have like get real with you like no like this is who i am i do get insecure about the you know the show and because sometimes they'll be like oh i've never watched the show and i'm like that's fine they're like should i and then they'll be like oh okay, I've never watched the show. And I'm like, that's fine. Like, should I? And then they'll be like, oh, OK, well, I watched an episode. I'm like, which one?

You know, like I don't know. Again, Katie, I'm still waiting for your like. I remember watching Vanderpump season 10 for the first time. And then people were like, oh, you know, and like talking about, you know, I'm such a big fan of Katie's. And, you know, there's always a critic here or there that's like, Oh, well you got to go back and watch the old episodes. I've been doing that. And it's, you're the least problematic person by a fucking mile.

It's not that it's problematic. Okay. I think it's just that, you know, when you're meeting people, they have all the anonymity in the world. Like I don't, I have to like everything I want to learn about a person I'm going to find

out through talking to them. You can find out a lot about me just with a quick Google search. And that it doesn't make me feel insecure, but there's a level of discomfort that I'm like. Yeah, you feel exposed almost. Yeah. And so I'm like, that doesn't seem fair. How do you deal with that? Just deal.

Just deal. There's nothing I can do. It's like, I can't stop somebody from wanting to Google. They're going to do what they're going to do. But I just hope that, and the thing is, if anything they read online is going to prevent them from wanting to see me or date me, then they're really not the person for me. And I just have to, I'm more comfortable now accepting and actually loving the fact that I'm just not going to be for everyone anyway.

So just weed them out. Sure. I, uh, yeah, I got used to just being myself for a long time. Also, I just had to make sure Natalie never watched. She's never seen the best. So you, you relate. Oh my God. Yes.

So it's like, even though it's like maybe not that bad or any, like, it it's just sometimes i like why do you want to watch a highlight reel of my past relationship do you want to see me get married i don't know like just then how about i call up your ex-girlfriends and they can tell me all kinds of stories like i don't want that right let me just give you the cliff notes yeah he threw a couple drinks on me he never took my had my back. He cheated on me. I don't know. It's wild. I haven't got to that part. Stay tuned. Who did he cheat on you with?

Several people. Sheena from Vegas. Sheena in Vegas. Baby Sheena. I don't know why. That's a weird theory. it's yeah no because sheena did say that she thought it was going to the grave that they were going to take that make out to the grave so why would anyone think that so did sheena make out with tom or not

you're gonna see but i will tell you that it did it was not the other sheena it was not that's not even her name. But no, like that was, that's the, that's a complete theory that someone made up online. Will Sheena have to apologize or answer questions once whatever this is, is revealed. Yeah.

I think people are going to be like, Tom didn't just say that because he like, there's obviously more to that story. And it involves Sheena. Well, he did say Sheena. Well, I don't know because Sheena literally responded to someone's comment and was like- He wasn't talking about me. Wasn't talking about me or no, I didn't.

She tweeted it. Or like, I can't believe you made out with Sworch. And she's like, I didn't. All will be revealed. I think she was being a little nuanced in her response like it wasn't a make out we kissed you know

like one of those things like we didn't use tongue it was just pecs over and over that sounds like a fucking Tom Sandoval line it's just like whoa I didn't cheat we only fucked we hooked up and then we didn't cheat. We only fucked, you know, like we,

we hooked up and then we didn't for four weeks before the affair started. It's like, oh, okay. When you, when you add those four weeks buffer in there, that makes all the difference. I mean,

honestly, when it comes to Vanderpump rules, I don't know what is or isn't, you know, considered wrong, uh, in your guys's world. Sometimes I feel the same way.

I feel the crazies like truly it's like a gaslight of like ethics and society you know like vanderpump it's it's uh it's like this weird dystopian sort of like parallel universe that like i sort of like popping it out of and it's just questions for you both and i want you both answering because obviously dana you are tapped in as well like who and i guess include yourself but who do you think should be the most worried going into season 11 about people's opinions changing for the worst about them? Who? You think? I don't know, because people already have a very low view of Tom Sandoval. So it's...

So it can get lower. I mean, it's funny that, and I get why she feels this way or was saying this, but when Ariana was like, I'm, you know, have concerns that people are going to turn or whatever. I don't think that's going to happen, but I do think that there is them shooting for some type of redemption arc for him, or like maybe not just trying out to focus on the whole thing so much. Cause so much of this year after filming, like obviously they pick cameras up and film an extra episode. And then so much of the year it's been talked about, but I don't know. I just think that he still cannot take full accountability

for what happened. It's physically impossible for him. And the way in which that when he does talk about it, especially with people, you know, like... I'm familiar. Yeah, like he, the way that he'll just spin it and immediately be like, well, this person did this. And it's like, we don't care.

That's not what we're talking about. It has nothing to do with this exists in a vacuum we're talking about what you did um so i think he's gross but what do you think yeah no i mean i i i think even it's gross but even him given like given the that's no hanging fruit well i know but the thing i just i think even him given the the time and the floor to speak and all of that, without taking true accountability in the sense of saying, this is specifically where I went wrong and hurt you, and I know exactly how and when that all happened, went down, it's going to be a little hard for you to do any kind of uh answering you know and i think anyone that has any empathy for him might have a little bit of trouble too empathy in what way um i mean like you see like sheena kind of having you know struggle with like missing her like friendship with him and like i get it like i've had long term friendships with people that i lose and it's like,

it can be a struggle. But I think like this one in particular, like seemed like an easy one, you know? No, that makes sense. Cause like, obviously we,

we all loved, I mean, Sheena closed out. I mean, other than the reunion, she closed out season 10, like a fucking champ. I mean,

that was an iconic scene yeah some might argue that sheena god bless her has a history of being a bit of a pick me um and that scene that she had with tom was like a finally sheena yeah here you are standing up on the right side of right for the girls so to speak saying the right things and are you suggesting that maybe that might come across in season 11 as potentially disingenuous because at the end of the day she's just going to miss her friendship with tom and because tom according, according to you, isn't holding himself accountable, that Sheena will find ways to make excuses as to why it's now okay to be friends with Tom, even though he hasn't actually demonstrated any type of actual contrition

when it comes to his behaviors. A little bit. Yeah. And it just, it gets like confusing because she also has a very long, you know, history and friendship with Ariana as well. So it's like, to me, I think if you are feeling stuck or in the middle of something, you know,

there's, you feel like you have to like make a choice or something you i mean i think you rely on your integrity yeah i think the guiding light there is if you have two friends that something really malignant happens and you have to choose who's in the wrong who was done dirty point blank period yeah i think that's like not saying that it doesn't hurt when you have a friendship breakup and there's a lot of history. I totally get that. I totally get needing to forgive.

But repurposing someone in your life isn't necessarily the solution of particularly if it, you know, and I'm not speaking for Ariana, but if it made someone else feel some kind of way. I mean, it's also like, didn't she bring Ariana into this show as like her best friend? Yeah. into this show as like her best friend yeah isn't that how you know so it's like how did how are you now kind of turning on her in a way are brock and tom like besties i don't think they're like besties but they definitely have a relationship yeah charlie called him a payroll husband she's she has been calling him that. Oh boy. I kind of, I'm kind of sad that Charlie's not on the season. I was really wanting her back,

but you know, I, I, I get it. Yeah. PTSD. I get it. Only so many people are as brave as you,

Katie. Well, I mean, I've been in this for, you know, it's. What about Lala? Lala?

Um, Lala and I, like Lala's probably the one person i had like the most i want to say drama but like we definitely like had a tougher time this season why do you think that is i know i mean i think not that our friendship was strained but like there was a bit of a strain or there was something kind of like under the surface there that was like was coming out a bit you know so we kind of like we we definitely had a short fuse with one another we actually discussed this on our episode of really recap this week um thinking about like lala's point of view because one could easily say that what she went through with randall was oh yeah like honestly more difficult and more stressful given that children and lawyers and all that bullshit was involved and yet it was ariana that

got all this kind of attention and even getting the attention while lala's like hulu documentary like got released and it was overshadowed by skandaval do you think that has affected lala yeah because i think i think anyone can take that sort of like objective like viewpoint on just like the whole like social economics of the skandaval part of it and be like wow like the the public response to everything that was happening was wild and extreme at points. To be like, why? Just trying to break it down. And Ariana really, if you want to look at it from that point of view, was the perfect victim.

She was always very well-liked. And then I could even put myself in that position, too, too of all I didn't go through crazy what she did but just having put so much very hard intimate moments of my life on the show um and then you know go through a divorce where I didn't even have the support of the cast really like oh it would have been great to have the support of the nation um so I can get that kind of point of view as well um but similar to lala i myself like we've had our villain moments we we can be polarizing people on the show so like i can understand like why i didn't get that or why she didn't get that as well i think the other factor is it's it's really apples and oranges because i do understand what you're saying and no one is saying that lala didn't

go through a horrific experience absolutely but people have been watching this show for over 10 years they've known them as a couple for almost that amount of time yeah also in addition who he cheated with was a close friend of hers and not only that the close friend used to be engaged to a good friend of his so it's like i also understand why it blew up the way that it did because it's for most people your brain can't comprehend doing something so dirty yeah and like obviously people were gonna have big reactions to that even yeah even though what randall that whole thing was bad like just yeah horrific horrible i think in the vanderpump world you know that people were like had so much access to and felt like so much a part of for so long.

Can we mention this? I mean, I think a lot of people kind of saw it coming with Randall and Lala. I don't, you know, when they, when it was all kind of out there, I don't think it surprised a lot of people that that relationship didn't last and i think with tom and ariana for all of tom's faults and the criticism that has gone his way like tom and ariana was like you said kind of like a staple of vanderpump and a relationship that really stood the test of time and then for it to end the way it did was that perfect storm yeah so do you think lala's handling it well now i guess is my big question it's just like do you think you know she's got that quote in the trailer about calling ariana god and things like that is that more soundbitey or do you think lala really believes that it's not soundbite it's again like you're just gonna i'm just asking what you believe um where's her heart i think the lawless

heart is she's got like such a big heart like she's she is like such like a she really does like care and stuff like that i think it was just how do i explain this i think it was more of like objectively speaking more than it was just coming from a place of being jealous or angry i think that does that make sense no i get so yeah yeah i mean i just i wasn't there for that conversation so it's hard to say and like and hello it's the production's job right to make it like really exciting in the trailer or whatever so i guess that's why i'm curious in terms of yeah you know sometimes we have groups of friends where you can just kind of like tell they're a little more jealous than the other person you know and i don't know if like the sheena's and the lalas of the world are like because like they've clearly we talked about

this last week too i feel like the two people who have monetized scandival the most outside of ariana and ariana has fucking every right to would be Lala and Sheena. Would you agree or disagree? Well, I mean, I think, yeah, having like podcasts to like talk about and getting like crazy ad revenue. I mean, that's pretty. And their merch and all that others.

They've leaned in their song. They get the lean in. Yeah, for sure. The Christmas song. Which I have no problem with. It's just like when you start like demonstrating like little cracks of jealousy, then it gets a little weird. I guess is what I'm saying. From a fan.

Just from a fan. Yeah. You know. Yeah. Katie's like, I can't say anything. Well, I just, I like, again, it's too soon to start. Like, it's more fun. That's why it's more fun to talk about when the show is like airing.

Cause then it's like, there's more context there. You gotta ask the questions. I know, but I'm saying when there's, when there's more, when we have more context and we know like what we're actually talking about. Do you think your ex-husband will ever get out of his Peter Pan lifestyle? God, I hope so for his sake, for his sake. I do because I want, I really want the best for Tom. I want him to be happy.

I want him to do well in life. But he is in his own way. Yeah. All the time. And you're right. I mean, I have since met him. He's a very affable guy. You know, he is a charming motherfucker.

You know? Yeah. Until you're in a relationship with him. It is very. It drives you crazy. I mean, even just like I've gotten, you know yeah but until you're in a relationship with it is very crazy i mean even just like i've gotten you know getting to know sandoval through special forces by proxy i've gotten to know schwartz and it's like yeah they're fun guys but like hanging out with them is like it's clearly like i'm they'll say shit and i'm like i just live in a very different lifestyle

than you guys right now you know like i'm live in a very different lifestyle than you guys right now you know like i'm just in a very different era and it's you know we're the essentially the same age you know and it's just fascinating to me like you know they're what seems to be their immediate goals i mean i don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that in 10 years when they're you know approaching their 50s in their 50s that they'll be strumming a ukulele at four in the morning together in like ambient lighting and literally with like a bunch of zebra pattern that's what i'm kind of like fascinated with them it's just like i have someone who just like hey you know what about five years from now 10 years from now like where

like are the decisions i'm making now how are they going to affect me in the future and you can't always like you can't live every day like that. But it just seems like those two don't even worry about tomorrow. I know. But that's why, when I realized that Tom Schwartz is always going to be under Sandoval's spell

in that kind of way, that I just... Do you think he's still under that spell? Yes. That is shocking yes that is shocking that is shocking well he put shorts in a horrifying position when they had just opened a business and he was doing all this nefarious shit here's the thing like any repercussions when you put your name on a building and you know you're doing something really dirty and i can't imagine him or her did not it didn't cross their mind one time like if this gets out it's going to be really bad right

so if you have a business partner who's also in this world and whatever like i don't know me personally you're not really a friend to me putting me in that kind of position when i have like my if my financial well-being is on the line. Yeah. What do I know? I tried to explain that to him over and over and over again. And he's like, yeah, no, I know,

but I'm just like concerned about the business now. I'm like, you wouldn't have to be concerned about your business if he didn't do this. Like, are you not understanding? We, you and I and Allie went and got drinks at Laurel a long time ago. Actually, you might've been pregnant,

so you didn't get drinks. I didn't have a Spr but i asked for it i'm with the lime to make it look a little and we were kind of talking about this and you told me about this like business like this idea that you had for swords of how they could pivot with the bar do you remember that i kind of forgot i'm kind of um and it was kind of ingenious. And like, you had this, an idea of what they should do with the bar. All my ideas. Do you remember the idea? Um, I was just like,

well, what better time to like rebrand to once upon a time, get like new. Yeah. Once upon a time. And like, you can get like new excited, you know,

investors in there. Maybe someone that's like more experienced. They have Greg, but Greg can't do it all on his own. They could have not called it Schwartz and Sandy's. Pivot, buy Sandoval out, rename it as Once Upon a Tom. Once Upon a Tom was on the table

before they opened and ultimately picked Schwartz and Sandy. It was never on the table because Sandoval would never allow it to be on the table because it had to be because I came up with it. Yeah.

It was being floated. It's a great name. It would have been even a better name had they removed Sandoval from the bar. Truly, I know. Once upon a time. But nope. Yeah, that would have been iconic. I know. You should have listened to

you a little more. Even for a continuity perspective, what a great second bar if your first bar is literally called Tom Tom. Once upon a Tom. Listen, to me, it was so obvious. It was just gold. But they just, I don't know. It was like, no, it had

to be Schwartz and Sandy's. I'm like, whatever. Once upon a Tom. That sounds like a great place to make memories. I think so, too. And it's right below the Hollywood sign. It feels like a great place to make memories. I think so too. And it's like right below the Hollywood sign. It feels like very like, I don't know. There's something kind of special

about it. How has business been for them? Do you know? I honestly couldn't tell you. I think it's a little odd that they chose to leave town over New Year's and like not spend it in their bar. Yeah. Bringing it off

I have no idea I don't go there yeah I haven't heard anything about it in a long time well your guess is

as good as mine we went once for research they didn't have ketchup no they have it was like cherry ketchup you were like

what is this who the fuck is this like what yeah they didn't have ketchup yeah so but we we quickly left and did not return but it was fine yeah they were playing what was the music they were playing in there it was like elevator music or something it was so strange and we were all like what is this vibe right now like what are y'all going for that's a great question yeah yeah it's a bit it's a bit all over the place well it's like every three feet of the bar is a different vibe so there's just yeah it's give you pan around the room

you're like what is going on yep a lot going on there i know that you're getting some shit about something about her people thinking that it's it was like some sort of scam for merch or something like what is going on what an expensive scam because because you could just sell merch yeah yeah and not like build out that's what i didn't understand about that it's like what's their angle they could have just been like here's some merch it's like everyone was gonna support you too in that and that and not have to spend you know money on a buyout and rent and then the whole design yeah we did all that just to sell merch weird um no everything has been uh going through the process of like permits and the city sort of their you of things. And it takes a really long time.

It's just it's not easy. And anyone that has opened a restaurant or any kind of food business, they fully get it. They know that it is daunting and relentless and it takes a really long time. And I think for everybody else, they just don't understand. It's just sandwiches. It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if it was like granola bars like it just it doesn't matter what it is you have to go through this process it doesn't it could be a full service restaurant

it would still be the same process it doesn't matter like what we're doing and we didn't even have our first inspection until like august because we were um we had this patio up front and when we found out they were going to be doing this whole like street like thing on Robertson where they're going to be expanding the sidewalks. And so they wanted the patio removed. And so we're like, we were going, we were like not fighting with them, but we're going back and forth for like literally months and just saying like, can we keep it until next year? We'll sign some kind of acknowledgement saying that we'll remove it 60 days prior to the project when you commencing like we'll do whatever can we just keep it for now because like why not and they they went back and forth because at one point we thought maybe they would and then

ultimately in july is when they were like nope so we had to remove that and then we could finally go through our inspections because we weren't going to go through the whole inspection process and then have to do it all again so so i mean it's just it's just been that's been the well to put things into perspective i mean it took this show disrespectfully between you two and me took like within the works for like six months and that's just a podcast yeah it doesn't include a lease on a restaurant and food and inspections well maybe ours will we don't know we might expand out

and make it a drinking experience shit takes time it just takes time but you know it's going to happen and it will happen it'll be great so

just trying to be patient do we have like a goal we don't want to put that out there as soon as possible as soon as possible I mean yeah like once we get that

final permit it's like it's go time and then we can like finally bring in product we'll do a live episode from amazing something about her there you go also all these people put a sandwich in your pipe and smoke it like the way that the conspiracy theories and what like is like are you bored are you that bored like what are you talking about people are like ariana doesn't need it anymore she's busy i'm like what she doesn't need it anymore like we've been like committed to this project for years like she's going to broadway and then she'll be back and then you know like it's just it's fine you

know but then they're like well katie's never done or i don't know there's the notion that i'm like don't follow through on things or i don't know. It's just like wild. It's at this point just like out of y'all's hands. It's just noise. It's other people who you're waiting on other people. It's not, it's out of y'all's control at the moment. That's just the organic fandom that you guys have to deal with. It's lovely.

You know, because there will be people looking to root for Sandoval. Like there are just, there are going to be fans watching season 11 who are going to look for every reason to criticize Ariana and root for Tom just because they get bored of a storyline. Contrarians out there, yeah.

So she'll be interesting. Katie, do you watch any Housewives? I do, but I'm behind on a lot of them. I haven't caught up on Salt Lake it was Charlie wasn't it who told us that there was kind of like an unspoken rule about having like working for Lisa Vanderpump and watching

like Bev Hills Bev Hills after she was gone I never heard that rule before I've never heard that rule before oh well never mind how is Lisa when it comes to all in your underwear. I've never heard that rule before. Oh, well, never mind. How is Lisa when it comes to all of you guys? Does she still like to play like Switzerland or do you feel like she has been more willing

to take a stand? Switzerland? Do you feel like she's usually neutral? I mean, she's still like, I don't know. Well, other than Kristen, she seems to be like. I don't know. Well, other than Kristen, she seems to be like, I don't know. I mean, I think she,

I mean, she was even during scandal. All she was, you know, she wasn't willing to give up on Tommy. I don't know why that is. I mean, it wouldn't make that much sense from a business perspective,

I would say. Well, yeah, I think it's maybe still, I mean, it didn't stop that much sense from a business perspective, I would say. Well, yeah, I think it's maybe... She could still. I mean, it didn't stop her from shitting on Kristen. But she wasn't... She didn't have a bar with Kristen.

With Kristen called Kristen Kristen. That does not exist. That's a good point, Dana. I'm a thinker. So that's what I'm saying. And also not to say anyone who says anything other than the fact that he was blatantly wrong. Both of them. Wrong as fuck. There's nothing else to say about it. So like, yeah, what perspective was there besides that? but like it's not about that it's just about the fact that he still hasn't taken accountability that's just shown zero remorse and it's like everyone makes mistakes this wasn't a mistake like yes do everyone makes mistakes yeah yeah for sure but like and everyone has cheated

not like this and yeah when you're and maybe in your 20s like yes it can be like a little more forgivable because it's like that's when you should be fucking up and learning really tough lessons and growing from them. But if you're in your forties and you're still doing that shit, it's a little less forgivable. But also if you can admit that it was a mistake, then you should be able to apologize and admit how fucked up it was and say like,

yeah, but he still can't do that. Yeah, exactly. He should just be able to say that. Like it's, or it's quickly followed by a, but Ariana did this. Oh, the qual that. Yeah, exactly. He should just be able to say that. Or it's quickly followed by, but Ariana did this. Oh, the qualifiers.

Oh my God. Or Ariana said this. Not trying to hear that. And I had a choice between this or that. And what do you expect me to do? And I was in this place. This is why I did it. It's like you were covering and making choices and decisions all along the way

to protect this and keep it going so it's like to say that like you were just like whoops i fell in my penis one side or like that is not what happened i didn't have a choice because i just i was in such a bad place it's like that's not how this works though like and again if you're not he's think not thinking, long-term goals. There's no way it never once crossed his mind how bad that would look if it came out. So it's like, how do you think if you're not in a good place? What place do you think you're going to be in when this comes out? And to call it just like, oh, it was an accident.

He had her in St. Louis on the low for Christmas. That wasn't just an accident or something you weren't sure about or didn't think through. So if you kind of do your point and when it comes out, just say, yeah, I actually just did this. I willfully knew how much it would hurt the people around me, my friends, Ariana. I couldn't stop myself because I wanted to. I didn't want to. I like the way this ditzy girl made me feel. I didn't take the time to consider and I was selfish and self-centered and there are no excuses. I want to not do that in the future.

I couldn't even take the time to consider because I was so consumed with what I was doing. And I just like, like I was caught up and, you know, like just something. But just to like constantly be blaming it on everything outside of himself is just like, it's so tired. Yeah. Why don't you just like, you could just say my insecurities were suffocating me and I liked the way this person made me feel and like the rush of it all. Just say that.

Just say you couldn't fill your own cup. We're aware you're a bartender. You don't know how to fill a fucking cup. So. Texting office hours. There we go. All right, ladies. It's time for texting office hours.

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Okay. All right. Well, first of all, I'm sorry that you feel like you're in a loveless marriage. We do have someone here. Well, I don't know. It wasn't loveless. Well, it was lacking in many ways. But yeah.

Anyways, this is not about Katie's marriage that's over. Tell us about your marriage and the lack of love that's in it. And why, if you truly feel like it's loveless, why are you considering staying in it? Well, the biggest challenge is we have three children, um, ages five, three, and one. So they're all little babies and precious babies. Um, the main reason why we have trouble in our marriage is because he is an alcoholic. Um, he does admit that, but I have been trying to communicate to him exactly what I need. And, um, I need to see some love from him, some action, not being drunk every night. Yeah, it's a lot. So he is willing to at least admit that he has

a drinking problem. How long has he been admitting that? Oh, he's been admitting that for at least eight years now. Oh, well, that's unfortunate. So has he done anything other than admit to it? He had to go to rehab because he got his second DUI. Okay. And he went to rehab for alcoholism and pills. When he came home, he seemed good for about 30 days and then he started drinking again and it's just been a downfall. I'm talking like drunk every night, but functioning. I just don't really trust him around our kids because sometimes he's a little aggressive. He's also lying to me consistently, hiding alcohol.

It's just been a big issue. Well, I'm so sorry that you're dealing with this. That sucks. It's okay. Obviously, three young kids is a lot to consider. And I totally understand why you're taking that into consideration. Nevertheless, I mean, this sounds bad and, and, you know, it's not sustainable. Yeah. And he, um, he does try to talk to me about it and, um, he only tries to talk to me when he's drunk. So I try to wait for him to

talk to me in the morning when he's not drunk and he mentions nothing about it. And if I bring it up, it's just he kind of walks out the door. Do the kids notice when daddy is not sober? Love your question. My oldest just started realizing a couple months ago. She's like, you're mad at daddy because he's drunk, aren't you? And that broke my heart. Yeah. Jess, I would be curious. Have you talked to an attorney or gotten any type of feedback from them? Because I actually had a friend that went through this recently and it is something to consider. But you just said that he got a second DUI. If he gets another DUI and hurts someone or himself, property, whatever, you are financially liable for that too in a marriage. So unfortunately, there are possible financial implications for you and your children

beyond just the emotional implications. And unfortunately, the rates of recovery for addicts aren't great. And the first thing that needs to happen is he would have to really want to be committed to that to change and get there and it doesn't necessarily sound like that's what's happening and i like nick said like three small children completely get that but it's something to consider it's just the hard part with the kids um but i know if they weren't here i wouldn't be here still i think also like thinking about how they especially your oldest I mean, watching you and watching you put up with it and watching the way he gets when he's drunk. Is that showing them that that's something they should put up with in the future? Is that teaching them like, you know, or do you want to show them like, no, we don't, you know, we don't stand for this.

We respect ourselves. And like, this is what happens when people don't treat us the way we deserve to be treated. Those are all amazing points too. And I think it's, it's, it's interesting that you can say to us that if the kids weren't in the picture, you would be gone. Yes. Is that really true though? Very, very true. Very true. Um, it was really hard for me. We've been married for 13 years. So, um, it was really hard for me in the beginning with all of this. Um, but ever since we started having kids five years or six years ago, it's, it's just different. Um, he's not present. He's

not there. He gives no love. I tell him, listen, I need, I need some love. I just show me that you one time a day that you, that you like me and he can't, he can't do that. Um, and I beg him for it and just doesn't do it. Well, I'm so sorry again. Um, but I think Dana and Natalie make some excellent points. And if, if it truly is the kids that are only keeping you together, then I think you have some other very valid points to consider in terms of why for the kids, maybe this relationship isn't serving anyone any good. He is their father and he can still choose to be their father, regardless of what you decide for that relationship. But that's his choice and his responsibility. And it's not yours. And my gut probably tells me you've been probably doing 100% of your half and like probably 80% of his. And maybe you're like used to that. And even when it comes to worrying about what his job is as a father in this relationship, you probably have taken up that responsibility, which it's not your responsibility.

And I think you've got to try to be careful not to almost be like a martyr. Yeah. Because there are no points for being a martyr in this relationship and kind of taking one for the team, so to speak. Clearly, that hasn't gotten you anywhere with him. No. I'm telling you, it's been years. And it's a conversation we have multiple times a month. Like, you have got to stop.

It's embarrassing. Like, falling over. It's just embarrassing. So, but back to if the kids weren't involved, you would be gone. Why convince me or us, if you're willing, as to why, because there are kids, there's a reason for you to stay? Well, his parents have been married forever. My parents have been married forever. I'm not a child of divorce, so I don't know how that affects the children. I mean, I've done some research and it just seems negative.

But then again, I don't know how good it is for the kids to see me upset every day and just trying to hold it together. As a child of divorce, it's worse. Is it really? Yeah. Yeah. It's worse. Is it really? Yeah. Yeah. It's because you can have a great relationship with your father and a great relationship with your mother. And you don't feel like you're choosing sides or being in the house and like seeing them fight. You don't feel like, you know, like when when they're separated, you can go see daddy and it can be like an amazing experience. But when you're home and you're watching the relationship just be loveless and nasty, it affects the way that you view relationships in your future. I mean, I looked at relationships so differently as a kid because I saw what my parents, you know, put up with and went through.

In the same situation I was talking about, I know that a therapist told my friend this, divorce does not traumatize children. It's the way in which you divorce. So there are many resources out there to help you have a successful divorce. And as long as you're keeping your side of the street clean, you can't speak for your husband. And it sounds like he's not making great choices, but I understand those fears. But I'm guessing if what you said earlier about you are scared to leave your children with him sometimes because he's rough and they're seeing him like this all the time that is likely not going to be less traumatizing for them than a divorce

it's so it's it is it is the scariest thing to even like process and comprehend because just like you don't want to believe it and you don't want to accept it but i think like suffering like you suffering i mean even just for like your children's sake thinking like okay well i don't want to get divorced because that's not something you have you know you grew up in or and i think people it's a lot of like taboo people just don't think it's you should fight for it you should work at it you should just you know you should um do anything but get divorced but i think you will be so much happier and your kids will see that in you

and you'll become like so much stronger and that bravery will really resonate with them more than seeing you suffer and be broken every day also i think you can say that you've confidently tried yes having those conversations every single month and it's falling on deaf ears he's not listening and i think he probably just thinks you'll never leave anyway so he doesn't need to change those behavior modifications are never going to come because he hasn't had to change them well it probably makes a difference too that i've told him numerous times i'm not going to leave you because i love my kids too much and i can't do this to our kids um yeah no well he's definitely he's definitely taking that into consideration for sure yeah like last night he was drunk out

of his mind swaying and everything got the kids to bed comes over to me and says hey can we talk now and which is a huge like he's never done that in our entire relationship for 13 years and i said actually no because you need to talk to me when you're sober you're not going to remember any of this or you might remember bits and pieces and then this morning we're in the kitchen together for an hour. He doesn't say one word to me. And when he goes to leave, I said, so you wanted to talk to me, right? And now that you're sober, you can't do it. And you just left. So yeah. What would it take? Like, what would would your what would your bottom line be what what you know like what what would need to happen for you to take those steps oh god i don't even

want to say that out loud because it sounds horrible well i think that's that's the part you have to get over well it sounds horrible it's like if something would happen to my children or something i live for my children um if anything would happen to them, but then it's like, I don't want to say that because thinking that something could possibly happen. But also like, yeah, letting it, I'm thinking about that, letting it, letting it get to that point. Right. Yeah. So how do we get you to that point without something bad happening first? I just have to make the decision and stay strong and do something about it, but I'm just petrified. What scares you the most? He's a great dad. I just have to make the decision and stay strong and do something about it. But I'm just petrified. What's scary?

He's a great dad. Well, that's awesome. That's great. And he can still be a great dad. Yeah. And, you know, and if you decide to leave the relationship, you can do or you cannot do what a lot of people do doing your shoes is like, you know, you can still protect the fact that he is their father. So you don't need to talk shit about him to the kids and things like that. You can still like cherish that bond that he has with his kids. And as you should,

because like, it's so like disheartening when you see parents go through divorce and they selfishly like go to war with each other and they like take it out on their children and let their insecurities like make, you know, and then it becomes like a battle, like which kids like who parents the most, like don't do that. And so you can deal with the bullshit that you guys have to deal with and you can still protect that relationship he has with his kids, you know, because like, like Natalie said, like you, nothing is stopping you two from still being two amazing parents to their children, regardless of you two are together and you can still shower them with love and you can still co-parent and you can make the kids the priority you just no longer have to be a prisoner of this loveless marriage and his lack of desire to connect or communicate with you unless he's drunk out of his mind yeah what else scares and i'm also i'm also 40 so it's like is there any hope for me anymore? Besides the golden bachelor? Oh my God.

40 is the new 30. Ladies, this is where you jump in. Oh my, I can't wait for you to listen to Disrespect. Your new favorite podcast is going to be called Disrespectfully. It comes out next week and it's hosted by Katie Maloney. And Dana. Dana Kathan. Kathan.

God, God, God. Kathan. Kathan. Kathan. Kathan. Kathan. Kathan. Kathan. Kathan. Kathan. Kathan. Kathan. Kathan. Kathan. Kathan. Kathan. Kathan. Kathan. Kathan. Kathan. Kathan. Kathan. Kathan. Kathan. Kathan. Kathan. Kathan. Kathan. Kathan. Kathan Maloney and Dana Kathan. God, God, God. It means devastating. Dana Kathan. Yeah. Dana Kava. Yeah, you're going to have to download that and listen to it immediately.

But yeah, Katie, your thoughts on that? I think that should be the last thing to worry about because, of course, you have all the so much time left. Yeah. 40 is the new 20.

And also, like, who wants to be 20 anyway but i think um that should not be like those those things that we tell ourselves those irrational fears should not never hold us back because i don't know i've i've truly never been happier even if i'm still single you know because it's just the relationship i have with myself and the kind of confidence i've given myself just to love myself enough to get out of something that wasn't what i wanted it wasn't making me happy and there was no future there babe also have you met a 20 something year old like like he said who wants that except natalie but yeah i mean yeah you don't count well sometimes we do sometimes you know the 20 or 20 27 year olds give me fun well don't you lead another story well sorry real quick

don't don't block your blessings yes so these are all fear-based thoughts so i know that it's easy to look at what you're losing right now because that's what's been your life for the last 13 years but think of what you're gaining guarantee you you will meet someone and just like there's a lid for every pot and your current situation doesn't sound like it's best for you or your children so you are a spring chicken you look great i don't know if you get botox but you look like you do so you're amazing hair i'm not worried about you at all you know i think but it's hard because you think like you had your whole life planned you had the family and everything and then everything's turned on its head and you're like, the thought of starting over is mortifying. But I am so excited for what's unknown

and like what could happen, you know, in my future. And just thinking that, you know, it's anything is possible. It's more exciting to me than it is scary. You also already have your kids, right? So you're not looking to like start a family. I mean, unless you would like to

do more of that but like you so you're literally just looking for love and that's the bare minimum and that's like and you can take your time yeah yeah that's so much more low pressure but you have your kids like and i say that as someone who's gonna about to have his first kid at this stage in my life and like before i got here it was like fuck man like i had to consider like so much of my relationship-based decisions on like the fact that i still wanted to be a father and thankfully luckily i met natalie but like that pressure of or lack thereof that you have your three children and that you don't have to worry about your biological clock at all anymore which is obviously something women have to worry about that men don't.

You have the freedom to be like, fuck it. I can do whatever the fuck I want. Like, you can get a little, you can get divorced and be like, you know, I'm gonna be a fuck boy for the next two years. I'm gonna fuck around. I'm gonna have late nights. I'm gonna date, you know, I'm gonna date 25 year old men and just have a ball. date you know i'm gonna date 25 year old men and just have a ball because like you know what and and honestly you don't even if you aren't a mother out there you know as our our wonderful co-host of disrespectfully will tell you like you don't have to worry about that but you have the added

bonus of being like of not having that you know as so many often people do well if i want kids i have to date more intentionally and blah blah and and put that unnecessary pressure on yourself you know that no one should do but especially someone in your shoes kids, I have to date more intentionally and blah, blah, blah. And put that unnecessary pressure on yourself that no one should do, but especially someone in your shoes, you won't have to worry about that. But then you put it the other way. Like, who the heck is going to want three little kids? I've never found that to be true. Also, first of all, if they don't, goodbye. Love, weed yourself out from me.

Do the work. You took the trash out. Great. But second of all, the person that would be out for me do the work you took the trash out great but second of all the person that would be right for you will not care or i'm guessing also could also have their own kids you can end up with a blended family like you just have to really stop letting this like shadow version of you lie to you this these are lies that you're telling yourself this isn't a thing we can't play out what has not happened if the streets call bring bring answer the phone you know what i mean like you said you have your kids get out there you're also like you're you're 40 you're not

23 you know what i'm saying like and you're not trying to be you're i i i'm guessing you're you're not going to be dating a bunch maybe a few you might like mix it up but you're not gonna be dating a bunch of like 27 28 year old men who are like are figuring their shit out and aren't sure if they can handle like a mom of three like i don't think you're gonna be dating those guys and you can if you want if you want to get a little nuts you know you're not gonna be dating like those aren't the ones you're trying to like wife up no and also you'll be well you'll be surprised the 20 somethings are all the ones that want to wife you up and you're like please go back to preschool um yeah where can your mom sign your permission slip for you to be here? But I think Dana makes an excellent point. What you're doing right now isn't serving you at all,

right? And I understand why you're doing it. It makes sense why there'd be a lot of things to be afraid of, even though you really don't have to be afraid of them. I mean, what you have is this opportunity, you know, you have this chance to like be incredibly free to like be only 40 years old, have three wonderful children that like, those are your babies. They're going to be the center of your life for the foreseeable future. And dating for you is just like an added benefit. And you're going to have your success stories and you're going to have those shitty dates that you're going to laugh about with their friends. And you'll have some great lays and you'll have some bad lays and maybe two or three, four, five, six, I don't know how many years down the line you will meet a guy who you'll actually want to spend the rest of your

life with because it's about the two of you and the connection you have. And it's not about anything else. It's not about like, was this someone I want to have kids with and et cetera. You will have no other pressure other than, is this the person I want to waste my time with? And so like you really, you know, to Dana's point, you have like so many things to be excited and optimistic about. It really comes down to your perspective and how you see your situation. I also think it's okay for you to be scared just because your life is going to change. But your kids will still have their father. He will still be a great dad to your kids.

But your marriage, what you feel right now, you're not going to feel any different when he's not around. It's not like you're losing the person who hugs you when they come home. You're not losing the person who goes out of their way to make sure you feel special, who holds your hand in the car. You're not losing that because you don't have it. I think you should obviously acknowledge that it is scary to start over. That's the inevitable. But I think. Putting your kids aside because they're going to be totally fine. This is it's better than having them grow up and watch their parents be disconnected and not see love than having love separately in different homes.

than having love separately in different homes. The other part that's really hard is the one reason why I felt, well, one of the reasons I fell in love with him is I thought he would never, ever lie to me. And he has just been lying for years to me. Like, I think it was... He's an addict. Yeah, that's what they do. The day before, but he's starting to try to make me feel crazy for it.

It's like the day before Christmas Eve, I was wrapping presents for the kids and I put them underneath his bed. There was nothing underneath there. And then later, we don't sleep in the same room just because we are bed sleepers. But so later on, I went into his room to see what he was doing. And I saw a bottle of wine. It was like 12, a whole bottle of wine just gone in less than an hour. And I was like, are you drinking already? And he goes, oh, no, that's from the other week.

I just have it there. And I'm like, you can't make me feel crazy. I was just in your room underneath your bed. We can certainly try. That's the definition of gaslighting. That's what gaslighting is. Yeah, making you question your... It tries to make me feel crazy

for the things that he's doing. Oh no, I didn't drink. No. And then I find like bottles here and there. I don't think you fully appreciate how much weight will be lifted off your shoulders once you power through that decision to leave him. Consider that you don't know

how good it can be when was the last time that you um put yourself first i don't i don't ever put myself first maybe it's time ever yeah i never ever do and he knows that we can text him right now and ask for a divorce i can't do that if i know you're not going to you know i had to do though because there's like never like there's never a good time i gave myself a deadline i said by this yeah by saturday i will i will how did you do it how did you approach it i told him i wanted to talk to him i was like i want to talk to you today he was leaving to go to do something i was like when you get back i want to talk and then you just said you just said, you just said it. Uh-huh. It's,

it was weird. It felt foreign coming out of my mouth. It was just, it was not like, again, but you just like, you just something I, you just have to do.

Cause otherwise there's no one, no one's going to do it for you. But like, you know that you. First response. It was sad. It was really, it was, it was the saddest day,

but you know, it's not like because you know there was obviously a conversation that happened prior to that um but ultimately you know i had made my decision and if if one of your children had a partner like this in the future would you be okay with that no no to an extent because like i said he's a great father, hardworking, but there's no love. There's just being drunk. Yeah. So how are you going to find the courage to give yourself that deadline that Katie was able to do? Like, do I give him a deadline, even though what is that? What is that?

Eight years. For the past five years. Yeah, but what is that? Yeah. What does that deadline look like? That deadline. A miracle. Looks like it's going to fail.

Yeah. I mean, you're that is you delaying the inevitable. So and before I let you go, that's what I just want to make sure. Because like, you know, I get it. You're not going to text him right now and ask for a divorce. I get it. But you are getting off the phone with us and we're going to go about our lives and you'll be left back to where you started is before I called with this like huge fear of like following through what is to us the obvious choice.

And we understand it's not an easy choice and we understand a lot goes into it, but like there's been no counterpoint to you leaving him. And there are some, even some things that you haven't even considered, like the whole liability fact that, you know, he could get in a car tomorrow. He could kill someone or just like damage someone's property and all of a sudden you are liable and your children for whatever damage and destruction he does. And as far as you saying that he's a great dad, part of what can happen in litigation is you can specify, if you're taking it to the court saying,

this is the reason we're getting divorced, you can say he is not allowed to drink while he has the children. So that's an even further protection for them because right now when he's with them, he's drinking, you know? So how about step one, before you ask for a divorce, what if you got off the phone with us and start researching divorce lawyers?

Do that. That is something that I'm thinking about. I don't know how any of it works. I think he'd be extremely civil. He's very understanding. And it's crazy. It's like he says he loves me and wants to be married to me and loves our family, but won't change. And he's like, well, if that's what you want is to be separated or whatever, I will be very compliant.

Listen, I mean, I feel for him because he has a sickness. He has a disease. He's suffering from addiction. And that is tragic. And I have a ton of empathy for him. But it's also not your fault or your problem. And it's not your responsibility to take on all of this shit that he is dumping onto you and his kids and putting you guys at risk, literal risk. for him and you can feel bad for him. And he at any moment can try to put a more considered effort into getting his shit together and changing his life, you know, but that's on him, you know, and maybe you finally having the guts to ask for a divorce, who knows? I mean, if you want to hope for something, let that be the wake up call that maybe he'll actually do something instead of you

saying, I'm never going to leave you. I'm never going to leave you, but you can't sit there and wait on hope. And I wouldn't expect much to change, but yeah, I think it just starts with a phone call, you know? Yeah. I'm just so scared. Cause I'm such a planner and it's like, okay, what do I do then if he, if I do this and he leaves and then I'm with all three of the kids and I'm used to his help, my care work i mean but you can't even count on him to watch yeah the kid i mean right i mean if he's drinking like how is he able to help what help yeah help you yeah and i think he's good he's good for a little bit and then yeah it's over i think you could also start slow and like just start with a separation you know like ask them to get out

of the house and maybe just separate for a while and then you know just take it day by day i don't think you necessarily need to like jump into you know the scariest of do you have any friends or family that would be willing to help you out for a period of time um i have my mom and dad but they are like 85 and it's more me taking care of them i take care of them as well um i have my mom and dad but they are like 85 and it's more me taking care of them i take care of them as well um so like my mom has dementia my dad's just getting up there so your husband works yeah yeah i mean you'll figure it out you know truly and i i don't mean to sound like dismissive or crass but like you're gonna figure it out and i know it seems and sounds impossible right now because you never imagine this for yourself, but like you seem more than capable.

Again, you have your children, you love your children. And for the sake of them, you're going to figure it out. I promise you. And it's not that it won't be difficult at times and you won't feel overwhelmed, but again, like hearing what you're going through right now, I honestly can't imagine it's going to be any more difficult than what you're currently experiencing. So even if it's just as hard, if not a little harder than the short run, I think you're going to figure it out. You're going to step up. And I think, you know, people around you will rally together and you're not going to be on your own. Like if nothing else, be thankful that your husband will, sounds like, still be a good father to them

and provide for his children when he's not dealing with his disease. But I think right now you got to get over this mental hurdle of thinking about all the reasons why you shouldn't move forward with this decision. And I think you got to start changing the narrative and start telling yourself, I can do this. I'm capable of doing this.

I have the strength to do this. And you have to change that narrative. You got to gas yourself up and you got to start making phone calls. And the step one is to reach out to a couple of divorce lawyers, lawyers, take some meetings, get some info, educate yourself. Right now you don't have, you're just guessing, you don't know. And you're on, you're refusing to find out out of fear. You don't know, and you're refusing to find out out of fear. And that is only like, you know, it's like a, what's the word? Like self-fulfilling prophecy type of thing, where it's like you don't want to get any information because you don't want to learn, but you don't want to do anything because you don't know how to do it.

So start being actionable. Pick up the phone. Like, you don't have to get divorced by calling a divorce lawyer. You don't. Like, just educate yourself and get your ducks in a row. And at the right time, if it gets to that point, you set a timeline for yourself. Once you know, like you're a planner. So plan your divorce before you ask for the divorce.

Truly, that's a smart thing to do. But you start doing it now. And if you decide not to get divorced, you can still decide not to get divorced. But you're right now, all you're doing is nothing and except for worrying about your problem and you got to start taking charge and and uh i really think it's going to be a lot brighter than you realize and as scary as it sounds now like if you've heard me talk about you know things in the past most things aren't as scary as they sound uh and then you do it and you're like holy shit like yeah could have could have

would have done that a lot earlier and i will be i mean call us up and let us know that we were wrong if we were wrong but i will be shocked if you decide to move forward with this six months from now and not be wishing you had done it much sooner. Yeah. No, I already do feel that. It's like something hit me when I turned 40. I was like, I just want to be happy. I'm tired of being tired and I'm tired of trying to make someone better and change someone. You're having to beg someone to love you.

Beg. Yes, exactly. yeah you're having to beg someone to love you beg yes exactly yeah and when you do ask for divorce you'll have these two ladies and their show disrespectfully you'll have two girlfriends at the same stage of the life that you're at out there dating and you won't be alone there'll be literally hundreds of thousands of women just like you out there who are just killing it in the dating scene, having fun, meeting men, telling stories, having a ball. Sure. You'll have your struggles, but like, again, I think this really comes down to you changing your perspective in your head and start telling

yourself you can rather than you can't. Good points, Nick. Good points. I'm sorry you're going through this, though. Yeah, that's OK. Well, thank you. It's not OK. Nick was just saying you'll figure everything out. It's true. There's a great book called Everything is Figureoutable. And I can't remember who the author is, but it's amazing.

So highly recommend giving it a read. OK, thank you. You really will. You'll figure it out. We love a good follow up on the show, as you know. So I'm going to give you some homework. So what is the timeline that you are willing to work with? And your next step, just to get the ball rolling, is to make a phone call to at least one lawyer. Yeah. That's going to be my next step. And I'm thinking, I hate to even say a month,

but I feel like I just need to have like that one last conversation. Like if this happens and if he's going to make it maybe to the month or something, and then it's just going to start all over again. Are you, are you guys, is he in therapy? Are you in therapy? I begged him to do therapy and he did it for like two sessions or something like that. Didn't do anything for him. We've done couples therapy. He didn't do any of the assignments.

I had to beg him to do the assignments, which he never did anyway. He would just come with empty paperwork. It's just nothing is working. You've tried. I've tried every approach you can try with dealing with an addict. So now you can pat yourself on the back knowing that you tried it's not your fault you can have no regrets you know that must be

something you experienced katie knowing that like fuck it yeah maybe you tried longer than you should have at least you fucking try yeah no i look back and say like i could there's nothing else i could have done i did everything I can and I don't, I don't regret. I don't know. Yeah. That's good to hear. Yeah.

Yeah. I feel the same way. There's like nowhere to go now. All right. So I think a month's a long time. I think we follow up in like three weeks. Okay. I can listen.

I can, I love you and thank you for calling in, but I get the sense that you will delay this shit forever until someone... Well, once you start talking to people and they kind of are holding you accountable and you know you gotta give a deadline, your mind starts shifting a little bit.

So we're gonna follow up with you and we would love an update on what it was like for you to reach out to a divorce lawyer. And know this, that right now there are literally hundreds of thousands of people listening to you. And there are many women out there who are relating to you right now in this moment, and they're looking for strength and they're going to find strength through you because you're going to give us an update and you're going to tell us how scary it was and yada, yada, yada, but you but you're gonna do it and then so many other women listening

who couldn't find the courage and they're in a very similar situation to you are finally gonna get that courage because you're gonna show them how it's done yeah yeah no i i really want to um i'm going to starting tomorrow i'll look up some lawyers and figure out my next steps. We're rooting for you. It's going to be okay. Thank you. It's like the scariest thing ever. Totally. It is. But I do want you to try. I want you to start changing that narrative in your head. And it's those little things. It's those little comments we say to ourselves, it's going to be so scary. We know it is. And yes, I'm not trying to dismiss it, but what you have to start doing is start saying things like, I can do this.

This is, I deserve better. There is better than this. Those are the things I want you to say to yourself, to your friends, you know, you gotta, it's that kind of, that's how you change your narrative is to change those thoughts and you can control your thoughts. So you have to really police yourself.

And when you've, when you catch yourself saying, this is too scary, I don't know how I'm going to do this, pause, take a moment and say, no, that's not true. I can figure this out. You've figured out things before. If you can raise three children, you can figure out how to get a divorce. You want to be happy, so let happiness be your goal.

Yeah, I like that. All right, we'll be following up. Thanks, everyone. We're sorry you're going through this. This sucks. Thank you. But, hey, it's a new year, and this time next year, you could

be on a fucking beach with a fucking hottie, just getting fucking oil rubbed up on you, the kids are being taken care of, and you're living your best life. I don't even know what that's like anymore. Well, it's about the time you find out. You will soon. Circle back with us.

Give us an update. We're here for you. I will. I will. Thanks guys. I appreciate it. Alright, take care. Talk soon. Bye. Allie said that the author of that book, Marie Ferrello, we had on the show. I thought it was Marie,

but I couldn't remember her last name. We interviewed her. She's amazing. Wow. Love her. That is your target audience. Yeah, it is. Heavy.

But it's like, I've been there. I know exactly what she's feeling. Well, minus the kids and stuff. It sucks what she's going through, but I'm glad she has you two ladies to uh she doesn't know how fun and good it can be a hundred percent and also unfortunately for her the likelihood that this is going to change or get better is just it's not on her side so i really hope that she makes this choice well it's tough because i do you know people in

her position you know if you've been in a long-term relationship for a number of years like you were in you you forget what it can be like and the unknown is so scary sometimes and so but this when when the shift of of it being scary to being really exciting happens that's cool i've never been married but i've definitely i know how it feels to be unhappy and feel lonely when you're with someone. I can tell you as someone who's been single for a long time, there is nothing worse than being with someone and feeling lonely. Then being alone is so much better. So yeah, 100%. I cannot wait for all these people to listen to Disrespectfully and have a friend in their dating escapades. Oh, well, they're going to get earfuls of it. Oh my goodness.

So they're going to shake their head and be like, oh, what are these? But you know, it's going to be peaks and valleys of triumphs and tribulations.

Do you ladies want to leave us with a story? I don't know. I think I see a hickey on Dana's neck. Well, first of all, hickeys are coming back in 2024. Don't you know? They should be.

We enjoyed it as the hickey was happening. Yeah, but then I didn't know that it was happening. Let me see this hickey. It's on this side. Oh. I have makeup on right now too. It looks like a little like maybe your cat scratched you.

How did it feel to cover it with makeup? So, I mean, I obviously didn't do a good enough job, but it was like, is this 2004? I'm so confused. No, no. My best friend, my best childhood friend, so she's known me since the hickey stage when we were like 13, 12 or 13, was in town with her partner and their baby. And we were walking and I hadn't like looked in the mirror. We were walking to my apartment and she was like, what fuck is that and i was like what and she was like

do you have a hickey and i was like i wasn't gonna tell you the whole story but um now obviously the only person that would give a hickey is someone under the age of 25 so that's not true she'll be dealing with i think i've been i listen i think he's how old is he how old yeah She'll be dealing with fun. I think, I've been, listen, I think hickeys are fun. How old is he? How old, yeah. He'll be 25 next month. Oh, love it. And I'm, okay, so her and I are different about this. I normally will not even speak to someone below the age of 31. Like literally, and I actually shut him down.

I found out how old he was. I've been chatting with him because he's like tall and cute. So I'm like talking with him. And then someone, I asked his friend how old he was. And I was like, oh, no, bye. And then we kind of like lost track of each other and I was leaving because I am an old woman wanted to go to bed and it was all children left and so I was like um he was like wait can I get your number and I was like no I'm 33 years old you cannot have my number you're 24 you're super cute this is not gonna happen and I like went to go past I was like have a great Christmas

bye and he grabbed my arm he's like okay well okay how about your instagram and i was like fine and now i have a hickey so don't give out your instagram folks well it brings the hickey i was i was collecting hickeys like pokemon last year like it was great i mean like yeah sometimes some of them were like mean they there was no covering them up one time I had to go with a hickey to CVS pharmacy to pick up a UTI prescription I was like how old am I

I was like wow that's like that is that's the ultimate walk of shame that's such iconic behavior let's get rid of the phrase let's normalize no walk of shame there's no walk of shame I was like, let's just get rid of the phrase. Like let's normalize. No walk of shame. There's no walk of shame.

I was just doing, I was just running errands. I was just running, you know, girly errands. No, but seriously, we're girls.

We're going to get UTI. We're girls. We're going to have hickeys. We're girls. We're going to need UTI. I was a frequent flyer of the UTI. Oh, don't get me started.

For a variety of reasons. I'm just glad you guys are having fun you know i think it's so much fun i think hickeys in 2024 okay you know you're right i should reclaim it and also that's what i think we should be giving and receiving hickeys okay okay and i'm adding that to my list there is a big part and i think i have benefited from the, yeah, society gives us all these reasons why we should judge each other, of why you should be doing X, Y, or Z at a certain stage of your life, or you shouldn't be doing this anymore, or you should be doing that, and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I can say for one, like, I just got a lot happier with my life when I stopped giving a fuck about any of that and just like started making choices for myself. That's not to say, that's not to say like I could be like, you know, I still didn't find the love of their lives in their 20s and they're out there and still dealing with the fear of unknown or the fear of what society is going to think of them or judge them. And you two ladies are an example of why that shouldn't be the case. I think also a foundation of disrespectfully is it's a judgment-free zone. We've always been that way.

And the thing is, we live our lives however we want to live it. I think that there are people out there that do judge us kind of like what we were speaking about earlier. But like if you want to have kids and be married and only have sex with the lights off and missionary position, I don't judge you. I think that's amazing. Like do whatever feels good. I would do that as well. Honestly, love. Literally whatever anyone wants to do.

It's so funny to me when people make it such their business to be worried about what other people are doing if you're not hurting anyone and you're just in the streets getting hickeys and having a great. Yeah. Where your slutty behavior like a badge of honor. OK. Oh, that's a great place to end it. Anyways, disrespectfully coming to your podcast every Wednesday. Yeah. Wherever you listen to podcasts, you will also be able to stream it, watch it

on YouTube, just like The Vile Files. So, Katie, Dana, congratulations to you both. Thank you. We're so excited. How do you say my last name? Kathan. He's got it, see? Only took one episode. I always get psyched out.

He thinks too much about it. I do. I get psyched out with last names. I think it's because I'm so self-conscious about mine and people fuck mine up. I get in my head. I call people the wrong name all the time. If you notice, anytime Nick is like introducing someone on the show,

he's like, Katie Maloney. He's like thinking. I'm thinking. I'm like, oh, fuck, what do I do? So he always drags out the first name really long. Am I on the prices really?

Literally, yes. But I couldn't be more excited to be working with you two ladies. Likewise. I can't wait for all of our success that we're going to have as a team and you two being the flagship of this network. It's iconic. I'm excited to have you guys on my team. We're so excited.

We're so excited. Well, everyone, be sure to tune in next Wednesday. You guys have a lot to listen to next week. You're, again, can't,

I can't say exactly what. You'll know tomorrow, hopefully. But it's a big week here at The Vow Files for these ladies and for us.

And you guys are in for a world of entertainment. A world. Yeah, they are. for a world of entertainment. A world. Yeah, they are. Hold on to your butts. I don't love that saying. Hold on to your... It's from a movie.

It's from Jurassic Park. Thank you. Hang on to your butts. Anything else before we have to go? Don't forget to send your questions at asknickatthevilefiles.com for all things Ask Nick, texting office hours,

you know the drill. Well, maybe it's probably a good time to mention Vile Files Plus because we are recapping old episodes of Vanderpump. For all you Vanderpump fans out there, I know you're listening because of these two ladies. So if you are dying to go back to recap with us old episodes, we are in the midst, we just started season three.

We're like on episode two or three. I forget where we are. We had a Christmas break as well. So we have recapped one and two. So be sure to check that out with us. All our update specials are available as well behind Vile Files Plus.

It's free to sign up. Just go to vilefiles.com. Any final thoughts, ladies? No. No, I'm just so excited. Cannot wait. This is the perfect place for us. Can't wait to bring everyone along.

They're shenanigans. We were a part of one of Katie's shenanigans in Vegas the first time we met her and it set the tone. It was iconic. So I hope she shares it. Yeah. Sign this one up. Remember that?

That'll fit in somewhere. As it should. Shoot. That's what she said. Okay. That was my first meeting Katie. Yeah. Great impression.

Well, you're here clearly you did true yeah I'm like this is the person I want to work with bye bye

bye