The Viall Files - E689 Going Deeper with Gypsy Rose Blanchard and Ryan Anderson - “I Have a Voice Now”

Starting point is 00:00:00 I'm Katie Maloney, I'm 37, a divorcee, and I'm out here falling in love every day with myself. And I'm Dana Kathan, 33, former needy mess and delusional Leo, but I've never been happier. Never been happier. You know that. Good. The foundation of this podcast is for people who want to live their life unapologetically. It's a safe space for anyone who's going through a transition in their life or just dealing with the regular bullshit. It's a religion.

Starting point is 00:00:26 Wait, I love that. We're not saying that we're looking for nine women to start a coven, but that might be why we started this podcast. But we're not not saying that. We're not not saying that. Community, coven, cult, it's all in the same category. This podcast is for single people. Also if you're married. Also if you're a zoo animal.

Starting point is 00:00:43 Dating, married, single, thinking about dating. Married and thinking about dating. Whoa. I don't know about that, but this podcast is for everyone. Every phase. We're going to be sharing cautionary tales, giving advice from our own lived experience. Relationships, dating, mental health, friendship, career.

Starting point is 00:01:00 Katie and I have been through pretty much everything that could resemble dating life starting over again picking things back up this is for anyone looking to do any of those things or also just like looking to laugh and hang out with your friends because we're your friends or cry there's gonna be some crying how much crying would you say i'm not a big crier but i can make other people cry i love that disrespectfully disrespectfully join our cult i mean community i mean the coven, community. Let's just stick with community. Listen to the podcast. Listen to the podcast. It's a new year and that means new opportunities to make connections. But when it comes to dating, it can be tough to put yourself out there and know where to start.

Starting point is 00:01:35 And that's why I'm excited to talk about Hinge, the dating app designed to be deleted. Hinge is the perfect dating app to use in the new year because it really allows you to go beyond the surface, express your personality, and meet people who are on the same page. That's what it's all about. Hinge is helping people do that like never before. One thing I want to encourage you guys who are on the dating apps is to refresh their Hinge profiles to manifest the dating experience they want in the new year. So one thing I'm recommending in 2024 is to go to Hinge and take time to invest or reinvest in your profile. Update those prompts, photos and dating intentions to make sure they reflect who you are and what you're looking for.

Starting point is 00:02:17 It can also be as easy as just updating some new prompts. That's one of my favorite parts about Hinge. They have prompts like this year. I really want to. So you can share what you're looking forward to this year, maybe things you want to do, maybe pick up a new hobby, maybe travel somewhere new, which is just an easy way to start a new conversation with somebody. Manifest dating experience you want this year, download Hinge and find someone worth deleting the app for. You're crazy.

Starting point is 00:02:54 What's going on, everybody? Welcome back to another exciting episode of The Vile Files Going Deeper Edition. And boy, is this a special episode of The Vile Files and a special episode of Going Deeper because it's Monday and usually we're doing these on Thursday. But obviously you guys know our guest today is Gypsy Rose and her husband, Ryan. And we couldn't be more thrilled to have them and have the opportunity to do their first podcast interview.

Starting point is 00:03:22 We got the household here. We got Allie working, slaving away on crushing those sizzles. And my lovely fiance, Natalie Joy, who was with us today for the interview. Yeah, it was iconic. It was so iconic. Oh my gosh. I mean, first of all, I just want to say welcome to, I'm assuming, a lot of new people tuning into our show, obviously, to hear Gypsy and Ryan.

Starting point is 00:03:45 This couldn't be two better guests to have because this is actually the week of our five-year anniversary of doing this show. How many episodes have we done now? This is what? 689. So what a great opportunity to have an iconic guest like Gypsy for our five-year anniversary. like Gypsy, for our five-year anniversary. And for those who are tuning in for the first time, we are here three days a week giving you iconic episodes.

Starting point is 00:04:14 Usually, like I said, we have our Ask Nick every Monday where people call in with their relationship and dating problems. You'll get a little preview with Gypsy and Ryan during our texting office hours. But if you're interested in hearing people's stories, their struggles in relationships, a lot of romantic, often with parents, friends, all sorts of situations, that's every Monday. And then on Tuesday, we have a reality recaps, which we're big pop culture fans here. We love reality TV. We love our housewives. We love our bachelor. We love our

Starting point is 00:04:41 love is blind. We cover all those shows and so much more. So if you are a big fan of pop culture, reality TV, and everything under the sun, check those out. And then Thursday, Going Deeper, which is what this episode is, but normally drops on Thursday, which by the way, we got some epic interviews lined up for you. Obviously, Gypsy and Ryan. But then on Thursday, this Thursday, we have Clayton Eckhart with us. And for those of you who don't know who Clayton Eckhart is, he was a former bachelor a couple years ago and recently has been in the midst of a paternity scandal.

Starting point is 00:05:16 Yeah, I would say that. He was accused of impregnating a person and then that person claimed to be pregnant with twins. a person and then that person claimed to be pregnant with twins. It is the craziest story. I can't even comprehend it. Clayton is with us for two full hours on Thursday and he comes with every single detail, every single detail from beginning to end. He is incredibly vulnerable. Receipts, screenshots.

Starting point is 00:05:39 It's crazy. It is. If you thought you knew that story, you don't know this story. And it's I wouldn't say it's a true crime story, but it's. Definitely not. I don't know. It's what I don't even know what you would call it, but it is a it's bizarre. And you guys can be the judge. We let Clayton come and share his story. And he shared, I had talked with him a few times and he had shared some information and he shared some details and he shared some emails. And finally, I thought, you know, this makes sense to give him a chance to share his side

Starting point is 00:06:17 of the story. And we let him do that very much unplugged. So that is this Thursday on The Vile Files on Going Deeper. So look out for that. And just so you know, with Clayton, you know, it's obviously it's a very heavy topic. So we traded it with the care that it deserved. We're not going to be able to recap any housewives, whether it's Salt Lake City or Bev Hills, but there's definitely a lot going on. We got the reunion for Salt Lake City coming up this week. And then what we got Dorit and Garcelle in a fight. We got Kyle and her sisters.

Starting point is 00:06:45 Kyle and her sisters. Erica and Denise. Lots to get into. The OnlyFans. The OnlyFans. Crazy. I can't. I couldn't.

Starting point is 00:06:53 We'll get to it next week on Reality Recap, so check that out. But, all right. Well, it's time for Gypsy and Ryan. We couldn't be more excited to give it to you.

Starting point is 00:07:02 We tried to handle it with the care and respect that it deserved. But also have some fun. I really think we got to know Gypsy and Ryan on a whole different level. Also, we're excited. We get to go hang out with them tonight. I like to consider us some friends. So we'll circle back.

Starting point is 00:07:15 We'll circle back. Let you know how that was. And anything else, babe, before we get into it? I think that's it. Okay. All right. Well, it's time for Gypsy Rose and her husband, Ryan. You nervous at all?

Starting point is 00:07:35 No. I think I've been through so many interviews right now. Does it feel like second nature now at this point? Kind of. Kind of. Yeah. Has it all been pretty much the same? Everyone is... Good Morning America was actually the hardest. now at this point? Kind of, kind of. Yeah. Has it all been pretty much the same?

Starting point is 00:07:47 Good Morning America was actually the hardest. Yeah, there was a lot of difficult questions in that and we just came from The View and I was like, oh my god, I hope these ladies are not mean to me. They were all very, very nice. How can anyone be mean to you? I don't know. I mean, I did some international interviews last night and

Starting point is 00:08:04 one of the questions was like, how do you feel now that you're getting all this attention? You know, but, you know, you're a murderer. Oh, so like she just flat out said it was a lady from the UK. And I'm kind of like, OK. And everybody in the room just like jumped up and was like ready to like, am I, you know, am I OK? They were freaking out for me. And I'm like, no,

Starting point is 00:08:25 no guys, I got this. Like, it's something that I'm going to have to address because it's always in my comments. Like, why are we glorifying a murderer and this and that and the other? And,

Starting point is 00:08:36 you know, I don't want to have to remind people every single time that I'm not the one that committed the act of the kill. So, you know, I'm a part of it. Right. But in the state of Missouri,

Starting point is 00:08:47 there's no such thing as accessory to murder. So technically, they couldn't charge me with accessory because that charge doesn't exist. So, I mean, had I been in another state, I would have been charged with accessory to commit murder. Oh, that makes sense. Okay. Wow.

Starting point is 00:09:06 Well, thank you for sharing that. Yeah, of course i'm ready i'm ready gypsy welcome to the vile files thank you thank you for having me we always start our conversations with kind of a heavy question but fun so i don't want to startle you okay gypsy how is your heart how is is my heart? Yeah. My heart is very full. Great. Yeah. I love that. Well, I just want to start by saying congratulations on being out. Thank you.

Starting point is 00:09:31 We're so excited to be with you. Thank you. Such an incredible opportunity for us. But truly, what has this been like for you since being released from prison? You know, it's been a little bit of a whirlwind for me. It's been eight and a half years since I actually seen the outside walls. So coming out, I think everyone was just so sweet. And seeing my family for the first time in a setting that we could be comfortable in, that is what fills my heart with such happiness. That's awesome. So I'm just

Starting point is 00:10:04 trying to just take it day by day, not get overwhelmed. Leading up to you being released, what were those days like? Were you nervous, excited? Oh, yeah. Well, you know, it's funny because about a month before, I had not started feeling like it was real. And then the day of that, it was like the day of being released or the 24 hours leading up to it was when I really started to feel like, oh my God,

Starting point is 00:10:33 there is a knot in my stomach right now. I am getting out tomorrow. And I felt like, okay, this is actually really happening because I've been prepping for it for so long. I actually got my notification that I was getting paroled two years before my release date. So I had two years to prepare, to sit on it before it actually happened. Was there any part of you that is as excited as I'm sure you were to be released? You know, you spent eight and a half years there. Something I was so kind of captivated by, by watching watching your documentary was you referencing that despite being in prison, it was your almost first taste of freedom. It really was. The ability to make friends, to do things for the first time. Was there any part of you that almost had any reluctancy to leave that space and the friends, as crazy as it might sound, being in prison.

Starting point is 00:11:25 Was there any nerves? Of course. I mean, I had built a life for myself. I call prison a world within a world because even though it's people have this misconception that prison is the same thing as a jail. And it's not actually a jail is confined. It has cells. There's toilets in the room. But prison, you actually have a key to your room.

Starting point is 00:11:47 Yeah, they keep it as much homey, I guess you could say, quote unquote, homey for inmates as possible. They have jobs in prison. They have activities. Actually, we even had a Super Bowl party last year. So, I mean, prison is a world in itself. last year. So, I mean, prison is a world in itself. And so it was hard leaving my friends behind because I have some friends that have some very lengthy sentences. So the last- Do you want to give a shout out to any of them?

Starting point is 00:12:13 Yeah, yeah. To Amelia Bird. She actually has a very similar case to mine. And her case was featured on podcasts as well. So I was very close with her because we had a lot in common i say we both have mommy issues so lean on each other yeah exactly exactly i want to start with some light ones first before we really get into stuff but i when you left prison i think the internet first lost their mind you had your dr pepper ready to go your 24 24 pack. And I got to say, Nellie and I were a couple of soda fans ourselves. My two favorite sodas, Coca-Cola,

Starting point is 00:12:49 Dr. Pepper. She's a Diet Coke girl. I'm dying to know. I like Dr. Pepper. That's your drink. That's my go-to. Dr. Pepper is my go-to and it's actually

Starting point is 00:13:00 my husband's go-to as well. So I'm telling you, match made in heaven. I love that. Now, if Coca-Cola ever approached you and said, Gypsy, we want you to be the spokesperson of Coca-Cola. I'd have to turn them down. You would.

Starting point is 00:13:13 I have to turn them down. That's loyalty right there. She is loyal. Have you ever tried to mix Coca-Cola and Dr. Pepper together? That sounds terrible. Gypsy, I'm telling you, you got to try it. You got to try it. It's pretty good. Okay, okay. I'll try it. She thinks I'm telling you, you gotta try it. You gotta try it. It's pretty good.

Starting point is 00:13:26 Okay, okay. I'll try it. She thinks I'm crazy. Did you see the Barbie movie? I haven't. Not yet. I want to, though. I'm a total girly girl. What has been your best first since being freed?

Starting point is 00:13:41 My best first? Oh my god. There's been so many, but cooking with my husband in the kitchen. I didn't know how to cook before. I still don't know how to cook now, but he's a great cook. So, you know, we were cooking in the kitchen and it was just a moment that we can, you know, spend together and just have some normalcy in our life right now. Cooking is all about preparation. Is it? Yeah, you just got to get the ingredients ready. Listen, Nick's the cook too. I have no idea what I'm doing. What I can make is edible.

Starting point is 00:14:11 What did you guys cook first? Like what was the first meal you made together? Okay, so it was a sauteed chicken and corn and a pasta dish. Like the Knorr pasta sides. And the funniest thing is here he is telling me, like, pour the milk. It's a, you know, a half, pour the milk. It's a, you know, a half a cup of milk. I pour a cup and a half of milk. And he's like, no, pour it back in the jug. And I'm like, oh, this is horrible. I'm sorry. I don't know how to cook. I mean, it's like, again, like cooking is, it's about being in a way, especially when you're

Starting point is 00:14:40 doing it with your, you know, your way of being connected and doing things together. It is. It was great. doing with your, you know, your way of being connected and doing things together. It is. It was great. That is awesome. I think part of what fascinates me about your story is just the fact that for much of your life, you haven't been able to make choices for yourself. You know, when you were going through the abuse from your mother, you weren't able to make choices for yourself. And like I said, prison itself, but even then you're limited to make choices. And now that you're free, I'm just, I think the world is fascinated by like, what are you watching? What do you what do you want to eat? Like, you know, like, yeah. What are the things that you're being gravitated to, you know, that you've maybe your whole life have wondered, what is this like? You know, what are things that you have fascinated about trying or experiencing knowing that for much of your life you haven't been able to do that um you know it's funny i say that i'm like 16 years old again because i'm just discovering snapchat and selfies and social media i didn't have much of a social

Starting point is 00:15:34 media presence before i got arrested either so i'm coming into learning about all this kind of stuff um and the first tv show i watched was obi-an Kenobi because I'm a huge Star Wars fan. Are you? So, uh, yeah, I came out last year. So I was like, oh my God, I'm dying to see this. That was a good, that was a good series. So it was like the first thing I watched. Okay.

Starting point is 00:15:53 Um, you know, I'm, I'm definitely trying different foods. I'm, I'm getting acclimated to freedom. The first like 48 hours, I felt like I just wanted to do everything all at once. And I have to really pace myself. Did you sleep much that first night out? I didn't. I didn't. I actually got released at like 3.30 in the morning. They released me a little bit different than other inmates. Usually other inmates get out around 8 a.m. And they were very concerned about my safety because there was also a lot of media around the prison at that time. So who picked you up? My husband. Yeah, he picked me up. And then

Starting point is 00:16:30 we drove to a hotel that we got locally. So just in case that was the way they released me, he could be there to pick me up at a short time, you know, a short notice. And then we spent the night, you know, we had our first intimate moment. His husband and wife got to consummate our marriage, which was great. And clearly it seemed to live up to expectations. It did. It did. Okay, good. And then after that, you know, the next morning we had planned a little get together with my family.

Starting point is 00:17:01 Where I just got to spend time with my dad and my stepmom and my sister and just really enjoy some some family bonding time. Yeah. Yeah. Having sex for the first time with your husband, was it everything you expected it to be? Were you nervous? Were you like, obviously, you're so connected. Y'all are, you know, you're married.

Starting point is 00:17:23 Right. Right. obviously you're so connected y'all are you know you're married right right but you've never got to experience a closeness like most couples so what you know like how was that for the first time it was it was so sweet and like um i have a past of um sexual abuse so i was molested when i was nine by my grandfather um and then my in my relationship with Nick, there was some sexual abuse. It was just a very toxic relationship. So coming from a place where I never had a sex life, I never felt safe. It was like being used and abused one person after another.

Starting point is 00:18:04 So with Ryan, he didn't say, oh, we have to have sex the first night. It was like, if you want to let it happen naturally, because I was like trying to plan everything. And I was I was so nervous. I'm like, what happens if he doesn't like the way I look or, you know, I'm nervous about just being naked, too, because I have scars on my body. And so in prison, it's not like he got to see me before he married me. So, you know, they say, you know, you got to check out,

Starting point is 00:18:30 drink the milk before you buy the cow. And that didn't happen for us. So I was extremely nervous. But then like within like 10 minutes, I was like, okay, this is happening. And I felt totally comfortable and totally safe. That's awesome. I can relate to you. I was also sexually assaulted at a very young age. I know how much that takes control over your life. In the documentary, obviously, we saw your grandfather have... A bizarre reaction. It was a disgusting reaction. When you heard that that was his reaction what was

Starting point is 00:19:06 what was your thought well you know i came to a place actually before he did that interview i had came to a place where i was going to call him and say i forgive you you know i was going to say that for for me for him and just be done with. And then he got interviewed and I heard about his reaction. And I'm like, how could you? Like, not only are you saying that you didn't, but you're saying that I'm the one as a child. At four years old. I'm the one that was trying to do things.

Starting point is 00:19:40 You don't even know what that is at four years old. No, absolutely not. You know, I'm not going to get into graphic details, but it was disgusting. Yeah. And it left me with a lot of insecurities. I felt like I didn't have a healthy growth of a sexual, you know, upbringing. So now it's kind of like I'm trying my best to rebuild to rebuild that and feel

Starting point is 00:20:07 comfortable and safe within my own body yeah absolutely do you talk to anyone on your mom's side um i have um they're my mother's side is actually they do want to have communication with me um mostly my cousins okay yeah your one cousin on the documentary tattoo artist i was like i kind of like this guy. He's great. Yeah. Do you have a relationship with him at all? Yeah, I have a relationship with my cousin Bobby and my cousin Tiffany.

Starting point is 00:20:32 They're both very close to me. Actually, I have an appointment in like two weeks to get my first tattoo. What are you going to get? Bobby's going to be doing it. Of course, he has to. So I'm wanting to get a matching tattoo with my stepmom, Christy. So there's this symbol, and it's called a unilome. And basically, it's a little squiggly line that basically means that the path to enlightenment

Starting point is 00:20:55 and like a self-awareness is mixed with twists and turns, but it doesn't make it any less beautiful. And I want to get that on the back of my neck. Yes, I love that. We got a back of my neck. Yes, I love that. We got a few of our own. Yeah, nice. Watching the documentary, I was, again, captivated by how you spoke about prison. And when you first got to prison,

Starting point is 00:21:17 I want to know, like, what were those first days like? And then, clearly, you spent a lot of time in prison doing a lot of reflecting. You've talked about the importance of therapy and how you rely on that. And to me, it seems like there's an earnest and clear effort from you to reinvent yourself, to almost reprogram yourself and all this abuse that you went through. Do you remember that moment in prison that, you know, you thought to yourself, I'm going to make the most of this because not everyone does that. You know, we're a show that we like to talk about the fact that life is about making mistakes and learning from them. Not everyone chooses to learn from their mistakes, but you clearly were someone who seems like they tried to make the most of their time while in prison. And yeah, do you remember that moment? Was there an epiphany of like, I don't want to be this person. I actually want to take accountability for the role I played and not let this define me. Actually, there was a,

Starting point is 00:22:17 there was a class that I took and it was called, um, ICVC. Um, and it's called, it's an acronym for impact of crime on victims. And I took this class, it was a 12-week class, and it's all about accountability. And so as I was going through the courses, I realized that I had made mistakes before my crime. I had made choices before my crime. And I feel like even though I didn't get in trouble for those things, this was a chance and an opportunity for me to honestly learn from those things that I've done in the past. So and I completed that was really enjoyable for me to pass the baton on and just kind of like teach others what I have learned. It was a very impactful class for me. And I think it's sad. You know, there are people that don't want to better themselves. But for me, it was always known it was it was part of that freedom to do, you know, things with my life that I've never done before. So one of the first things I did was, you know, get into GED classes because I wanted to better my education. I think the world has a ton of empathy for what you went through. And I think sometimes the questions people do have, you know, a lot of people have watched the documentaries,

Starting point is 00:23:40 have seen the act. And I think it's that those scenes at the end where you're being interrogated by the police and you're lying initially about what happened. And so much of that documentary also talks about your mother and her deceit and her ability to manipulate all so many people. And a kind of a through line or a common question throughout the documentary was kind of, how much of Gypsy's mom is potentially still in you and what you learned and those behaviors? Do you think about that? And is that something that you've actively tried to overcome? Of course. Of course. I lived with her for 24 years of my life and she did things in her life. I lived with her for 24 years of my life and she did things in her life. She shoplifted.

Starting point is 00:24:28 There was fraud. There was a lot of things, criminal activity that she was doing that I grew up in. I watched her do all these things. So for me, it is a conscious effort to, you know, go back in my mind and realize that is the wrong thing to do. This is the right way to do things. I'm reprogramming myself and it takes a minute. I have a pretty clear knowledge of what's right and wrong now, the obvious stuff. But for the things that maybe aren't so clear or the lines are maybe a little blurry, I do have a wonderful dad and a wonderful stepmom and a wonderful

Starting point is 00:25:03 husband that I can ask them questions like, hey, what do you think about dad and a wonderful stepmom and a wonderful husband that I can ask them questions like, hey, what do you think about this? And also I'm in therapy. So I talk about it with my therapist. I am very raw and honest in saying, hey, I know that this was not a normal childhood. I'm the product of someone that was very deceitful. How do I prevent myself from falling prey to being like her? I don't think I'm like my mother at all. I try actively not to be. Quite honestly, from everything I've seen and just a little bit of getting to know you,

Starting point is 00:25:39 to me, it's the effort. It's the awareness and the acknowledgement and just the ability to recognize the challenges you face, to recognize and even admit sometimes it can be scary as a victim to acknowledge what's happened to you. So the fact that you're even doing that is, I think, inspiring. And it says a lot about the effort and progress you've made. Thank you. Speaking of these documentaries and shows, have you watched all of them that have been out about you? Actually, I haven't watched any of them. Any of them? Any of them. Are you actively doing that or was that just like I couldn't watch it? No. You know, I'm proud of the HBO doc that I did. I did an interview for that. I'm very proud of it.

Starting point is 00:26:20 You know, I'm very close with the writer and the producers and everything. I'm close with the people that we worked with it. But I just I'm not there yet. I lived it. So I just don't feel a need to watch all this stuff. To relive it. Right. To relive it.

Starting point is 00:26:35 Like telling it and doing these interviews are hard enough. Like at the end of the day, I have like trauma. And so for me, having to do interviews is in a sense reliving it. And I can bet you that I'll have a nightmare reliving it all over again. So I don't need to watch it. I think it's definitely different to watch people try to portray to be you and your mother and how hard that could be to watch and be like well that that's not how that happened you know like i can't imagine having to watch that back as you so i i understand you not yeah she won't even watch my seasons of the band i get it uh that being said have you been made

Starting point is 00:27:20 aware of what's in it and whether i don't, any family members watched it and specifically the act, because I think there's a lot of people who know your story through that show. Are you aware of any inaccuracies that were portrayed that bothered you or did you hear about it or are you just kind of completely oblivious to what is in that show? You know, I have had my stepmom, Chrissy, she watched it. She watched all the episodes. And she was kind of relaying what all was put in there. And there is a bunch of inaccuracies, according to her.

Starting point is 00:27:52 Okay. So, and actually a couple of fans of the show was like, do you still have the hamsters? And I'm like, I've never owned a hamster in my life. They were, I had cats. That's wrong. That's definitely wrong. That was a weird creative choice. I know They were, I had cats. That's wrong. That's definitely wrong. That was a weird creative choice. I know,

Starting point is 00:28:08 I don't get it. But also the way they portrayed, you know, one of my friends that lived in the neighborhood, Aaliyah, the way they portrayed her

Starting point is 00:28:16 was, I guess, more of like a wild child, a rebel, you know, a delinquent or something. And she's actually

Starting point is 00:28:24 a really sweet girl. And, you know, delinquent or something and she's actually a really sweet girl and um you know she she got into uh nursing so she works at a nursing home so i i think that for me i don't care so much about the inaccuracies of that show because i'm doing this all stuff like i'm out now right i'm i have a voice now um the hardest thing was to watch everyone tell my story and you know get it wrong and speculate and everything but now i'm i'm free i have it i have it's my turn now yeah absolutely one thing you've been very open about is um your relationship with nick you mentioned the abuse you mentioned just kind you know, some of his dark desires. Something that really bothered me when I was watching the act is he comes across a little

Starting point is 00:29:12 sympathetic towards the end. They highlight his autism. Do you have any thoughts about that? Or, and despite what Nick did to you and your mother, do you have any empathy for him being in prison and what he has gone through? Um, you know, I, I think that we both like him and I both have a lot of regrets. Um, you know, obviously I wish that this would have never happened this way. Now for him specifically, um, you know, I did my time. I know he's doing his time for his part of things. You know, I just, I hope that whatever he does with his future,

Starting point is 00:29:46 because he is spending the rest of his life in prison, I acknowledge that I am the reason for that. However, I don't feel either that it's a situation where it's a sympathetic type of situation. It's a situation where it's a sympathetic type of situation. Okay. And I mean, the reason why I say that is because in my past relationships, I've had two relationships since I've been in a carcerate. And each one of my exes and even my husband is like, baby, if you would have asked me that question, if you would have said, hey, can you call my mom to get me out of the situation? They would have said, no.

Starting point is 00:30:27 Okay, no, we're not doing that. Let's go to the police. Let's go to the police. Okay, I'm going to get you out of this situation, but let's go to the authorities. All right. And we're going to do this the right way. He did not. Nick did not say that. You know, he has these dark fantasies.

Starting point is 00:30:39 He wanted to do it. It was a fantasy he lived out and he's paying the consequences for that. So with that being said, you know, it's neither here nor there for, in my opinion, what I think of the situation. It's just, it is what it is. Have you been able to, you know, come to peace with that night or have you relive that night over and over in your head? I still, yeah, I still suffer from, you know, PTSD and trauma. I keep reliving this I still suffer from, you know, PTSD, um, and, and trauma. Um, I keep reliving this one nightmare over and over again, and it's tied to that night. It's tied to the house. Are you able to share that? Um, so yeah. And I've had actually two nightmares that reoccur

Starting point is 00:31:17 a lot. Um, so the first one, my therapist said is attributed to the guilt that I feel for not reaching out to other people to help me out. So the first one that I have is I have a cell phone. I'm in my dream. I'm holding a cell phone and I'm trying to call my dad. And the number, for some reason, I can't get through to him. The number doesn't work. The phone is turned off or whatever it be. I can't get through to him. And I have that nightmare again and again and again. And then the other one is about that night. And I keep on going back into that house and just feeling very frightened. And, you know, the murder just happens again and again and again in my mind. Like I'm not I'm free physically, but I'm not free from the trauma. Yeah. You obviously have regret, right? So looking back, is there something you would have done different to protect yourself and

Starting point is 00:32:12 ultimately save your life? You know, this all started as a child, like as a toddler. So I grew up in a household where my mother said that she had magical powers and she'd put a voodoo hex on me if I ever tried to leave. You know, my mother suffered from a lot of mental illness. She was diagnosed with bipolar disorder and schizophrenia. So, you know, my mom used to say that she heard voices and saw shapes and things like that.

Starting point is 00:32:40 So, you know, for me, I think the regret goes back so much further than the crime. I wish that even as a little girl, I would have maybe even said something like, mommy hears voices, you know, and just started telling people, you know, some of the smaller things that was going on. Maybe if even if it didn't make sense to me, you know, just kind of make those comments. Right. Why do you think you didn't? Were you just? Because my mother, she isolated us from our family. In my younger years, it was easier. But the older that I got, the more she got. And so in the smaller of a circle, we had to reach out to. Do you still, I mean, despite having the regret, are you able to

Starting point is 00:33:25 give yourself that grace? Because again, you were such a young child, you didn't know any better. You didn't know the difference between, well, maybe voodoo is a real thing. You know, all those things. Are you still able to give yourself that grace, even though you still live with that regret? I'm trying. I'm trying to work on self-forgiveness. I had a conversation with my stepmom and she was like, you know, sweetie, people are sympathetic to you and they're praising you not because of what you did, the crime. They are praising you and they give you so much support because you survived it. Whereas other children and people would have died in that kind of a situation. And so I'm trying to give myself grace.

Starting point is 00:34:11 I'm trying to give myself understanding. And working with the therapist, it's going to take some time. You know, it's that emotional process. Yeah, it absolutely does take some time. And that was actually one question I had had too, is because for all the people who watch the documentaries, they've watched the shows, they've, you know, they've heard how your mom's family has spoken about her. I know in some other interviews, you've said that you don't think your mom is a monster. And I think it's admirable for you to go, to go out of your

Starting point is 00:34:39 way to have that grace from your, for your mom, because of what she did to you. That being said, you being the public figure now, I'm sure people are going to approach you. People can get kind of nervous and awkward when they meet someone they're a fan of. For all the people who have a very, very specific and very intense feeling towards your mom for what she did to you, how does that make you feel? And what would you say to someone who kind of nervously goes up to your mom and says something maybe even as crass as she deserved it? Actually, I've gotten that a lot. I had that a lot of the girls in prison said, girl, I would have done the same thing. It it makes me cringe. I hate that. And I felt so much guilt whenever I first got arrested because it spiraled so quickly.

Starting point is 00:35:28 I got arrested and then my attorney visited me. And then all of a sudden he's got a stack of paperwork on his desk talking about the Blanchard fraud scheme. And people were saying that my mother was a bad mom and things like that. And for me, I'm like, I was in a state of shock. So I was processing it all. But I felt a sense of guilt because I'm like, I'm hearing these words like your mother was a whatever. She deserved it. And I'm like, no, she didn't. I think the one thing that people think is that I hated my mom. And I'm like, no, I love my mom. I just wanted out

Starting point is 00:36:04 of that situation. I wanted out of that home that home yeah and I think that's something that people forget or don't know and what I learned through the documentary is you tried to run away I did yes several times the first time was with a guy a much older guy um and you know I grew up on Disney princess movies and so I thought like the only escape I had was with a guy. So that was only my form of reference for anything. And that didn't pan out. He didn't even have a vehicle. So I was leaning on different people, just not the right people.

Starting point is 00:36:40 You started this conversation, you were referring to other interviews, and that one interviewer just calling you a murderer. Yeah. You started this conversation, you were referring to other interviews and that one interviewer just calling you a murderer. Yes. Do you feel that way about yourself or do you feel more as if that you're a survivor? I don't associate myself as a murderer because if you think about it, yes, I had a part to play in it i requested i asked nick for help and how that conversation started was you know he was saying that he would protect me from anyone i said anyone he said yes i said even my mother he said yes and then the the plan kind of formed from there but he's the one that did the actual kill not me i can't kill anyone that's why he's in trouble to begin with because he's the one that did it so when they say i'm a murderer i don't

Starting point is 00:37:33 identify as that i'm i'm an accessory absolutely i'll take oh yes i did that i am an accessory to murder however that doesn't define me i did i did sentence. I did what the judge wanted me to do. Now that that's over, let me live my life. Let me reinvent myself. Give me a chance. Because before I didn't even have that chance to begin with. So let me show you guys who I am as a person before you just start slapping labels on me. Now that you can finally decide who you want to be.

Starting point is 00:38:06 Yes, yes. You know, you were held accountable. Nick was held accountable. But watching all the content, all the things that are out there, no doctors were held accountable. And it was just frustrating as a viewer to watch, you know, whether it was the act or the documentaries, to have all these doctors,

Starting point is 00:38:25 doctors, people we trust with our health. We don't know any better. You know, how do you know? Right. Right. Does that ever anger you? And do you feel like there's do you feel like there are people in the medical community that should be held accountable for what happened to you? Of course. I mean, I think that the doctors, whether or not they even suspected it in their own minds or whatever, they didn't do anything about it. So there was no report. There was no follow up. And I think that money plays a big part in it. Hey, they're getting paid. You know, this girl needs a lot of medical care. It's more money in my pocket, right? So I think we live in a system

Starting point is 00:39:08 that's very money hungry and selfish. And so if it cost me my life, what does that mean to someone else? So they aren't held accountable. And I actually, like my parents and I, my dad and stepmom tried to look for an attorney that can take my case for a malpractice lawsuit. And I don't think anyone wants to touch it. Like I've not been able to find one.

Starting point is 00:39:28 Really? Yeah. No, that's really surprising actually. It seems so obvious. Maybe there's some lawyers listening to this. Yeah. I need some legal advice. That seems shocking and very disappointing. Because like I said, I mean, when we go to the doctor, for most of us, we don't know any better. We don't know anything.

Starting point is 00:39:50 And whatever a doctor tells us is gospel. And again, you went to the doctor more than maybe anyone ever. And every time you went, all these doctors were doing were just confirming the lie that your mother was telling you and truly couldn't imagine. I couldn't put myself in your shoes. And it angered me so much because it's such a vulnerable position to be in when we go to the doctor's office and we put our health and our lives in their trust and you will fail the time and time again. I think that there needs to be a certain level of education about Munchausen by proxy syndrome,

Starting point is 00:40:28 because I have a friend that's in the medical field and she told me there's probably about a paragraph that they briefed them on. And it's something that is not talked about enough. I think when my case happened, people really started taking notice and started to pay attention to it because before my case, I never heard of it. There was no TV show. There was no episodes of anything. So now I think there's more awareness, but I still think that there just isn't enough. But what's interesting is about two months ago, I had a mother reach out to me in prison. And she was telling me about how she's going through a custody

Starting point is 00:41:13 battle with her ex-husband. She has a three-year-old. And the psychologist and the therapist that they hired on the husband's behalf you know, behalf to interview the mother, put the diagnosis of Munchausen by proxy on her. And she's like, I would never hurt my child. My child is not even on any medications. She has tubes in her ear. That's it. And that, you know, they're trying to take her child from her. And so there seems to be this imbalance. And I've also, I'm about to watch the documentary, Take Care of Maya. Yeah. I really want to I've also, I'm about to watch the documentary, um, take care of Maya. Yeah. Um,

Starting point is 00:41:46 I, I really want to watch that. So I'm going to watch that over the weekend. I, cause I just want her case. Did she, you know, cause it's so sad.

Starting point is 00:41:54 There's this imbalance that is going on that either the, the doctors don't catch it at all, which was in my case. And then they're putting this diagnosis on, on people that probably don't have it. And so where is the middle ground? Yeah, there is none. There is none right now. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. When was the first time that you suspected something was wrong, that you were like, this isn't right? I don't think like I don't feel sick. I you know,

Starting point is 00:42:24 like when was that first kind of acknowledgement? You know, I get this question a right. I don't think like I don't feel sick. I you know, like when was that first kind of acknowledgement? You know, I get this question a lot. Do you? And there were things that I knew growing up that I didn't have wrong with me. So particularly the wheelchair. OK, I always knew that I could walk. However, my mom instructed me to stay in the wheelchair. And so I listened. I was a very obedient child. And as for everything else, you know, the things that is not visible, like leukemia and cancer. Every time that my mom would tell me that I was going to the doctor for cancer, I thought that I was going to die. Like I thought that I was a dying child because cancer you can't see.

Starting point is 00:43:04 Right. So, you know, there was things that I learned while in jail that, oh, my God, I'm not dying. Oh, my gosh. That's amazing. You know, I'm not already dying. Wow. What are your personal goals for yourself now that you're out? Like, what do you want to do? Is there a particular profession that you're interested in getting in?

Starting point is 00:43:25 Where do you want to travel? Your social media has blown up. I mean, you're kind of the quintessential influencer in the sense that, again, everything, so many things that you try are for the first time. What is Gypsy Love? What is she into? Have you thought about like, what do you want to do with your life now that you're free? Yeah. I mean, I have, I have personal goals and I have, you know, career goals. So I am, you know, newly together wed is my, my husband calls it. So, you know, I'm married and we're starting our life together. So on the side of personal goals, we want to start a family someday. You know, I'm, I'm 32, he's 37. We don't want to wait too long now. Right, right.

Starting point is 00:44:07 So, you know, that's on the side of personal goals. But then on the side of professional goals, it's like, OK, I have this huge platform. Let me use it for something good. And so I want to get into advocacy work. I need to make connections with people that are a little bit more established because I'm just coming out of prison. So these things take time. But again, like I never expected to have such a big social media following.

Starting point is 00:44:33 So I'm kind of like, OK, I'm coming out of prison. All right. This is all well and good and everything. Selfies and whatnot. Let's have fun with it for a little while. But then let's get to the serious part. Let's start using my platform for something that means something important. Yeah. Well, you're also still allowed to have some fun too. Yeah. Yeah. Of course. And look good doing it.

Starting point is 00:44:53 Have you ever thought about the fact that like, you know, now that you're out, even still, you don't have that kind of quote unquote normal life now. Now you've, so you were abused, quote unquote normal life. Now you've, so you were abused, then you were in prison, and now you're an instant celebrity. Do you have a desire in the future? And I don't think there's any wrong answer to kind of disappear or go away. Or do you don't mind embracing this public figure life that you have with the opportunity, like you said, to do advocacy, to do good, and to try to, again, better this world as a result of all the pain that you had to suffer and hopefully help others not. I've always had a very love-hate relationship with the media and the attention from all of this. That won't go away. And at this point,

Starting point is 00:45:39 I've come to accept it. In the past, I've, oh God, I've've hated it i used to cry on my bed and i'm just like i want a normal life that's actually um i was engaged once before um yeah to ken yeah and um we were together for two years and then our engagement was announced and he's a very private person um and so he didn't like the attention And so I attributed him breaking off the engagement and breaking my heart and devastating me to the fame. And so I definitely spiraled out of control at that time. So that made me hate it. And then seeing how I've been welcomed, that makes me at least feel more comfortable. I won't say love it,

Starting point is 00:46:25 but it makes me more comfortable in being who I am. New year, new goals, and it's never a better time to start thinking about how you can take care of your body. And you can do that with care of. If you're someone who's ever tried to get on some sort of vitamin routine and fell off like so many of us, I mean, I've been that person. You got to check out Care-of. Care-of is a subscription service that ships high quality personalized vitamins and supplements and powders conveniently to your door every month. Care-of offers a curated set of products that are designed to work with research-backed ingredients in optimal doses. The new year is here already, and Careof wants to celebrate with you with a personalized experience that will help you feel like you're you-est. Push against sameness and celebrate what makes

Starting point is 00:47:15 each of us unique. All you have to do to get started is take a short, simple online quiz about your lifestyle, health goals, and Careof will give you doctor-back recommendations. It's that easy. The Careof app helps you track how you're feeling and play back insights about your results over time so you can adjust your routine as you need changing they also give you comments like these little like uh daily packs right so that that's what's helped me from not falling off the vibe of it because it's like especially if you travel you have all these little bottles and it's like i gotta take this one i got this one it's like it gets all i don't know you just like give up but not with care of they make sticking to the routine of those vitamins super easy and your

Starting point is 00:47:53 ability to stay on that routine has never been easier and we got a special offer for our listeners for 50 off you heard me right five zero you can get your first care of order go to take care of dot com and enter code vi all 50 again for 50 off your first care of order go to take care of dot com and enter code vi all five zero gotta love a good cleanse and there is no better time a year and then in the new year to cleanse out that body of yours. And if you haven't done a cleanse, you got to check out squeezed dot com. It's the juice cleanse everyone is talking about. I can't wait to do my second cleanse. I love my first one.

Starting point is 00:48:35 I feel like January is the perfect time to try new things, start the year fresh. I also am looking forward to all the benefits that come with it, which is maybe just like less bloating or clearer skin, which I'm currently struggling with, better sleep, increased energy. And so the last time I did the cleanse, I got it in the spicy option, which I would recommend. It was very, very delicious. So I'm very, very excited to do another couple of days. Also, it builds discipline to sticking on a routine like a cleanse will keep you in that good habit-forming state of mind. So to get your juice cleanse on today, go to squeezed.com. That's S-Q-U-E-E-Z-E-D.com. Squeezed.com.

Starting point is 00:49:18 For same-day local or free fast delivery nationwide, use code V-I-A-L-L. Again, that's squeezed.com code viall for same day local delivery or free fast delivery nationwide hold on to your kilts dearies peacock original the traders is back with a new season of strategy betrayal sabotage and murder this killer season features an all-new celebrity cast that vulture hailed as reality royalty living in a scottish castle for the ultimate murder mystery competition we're talking fierce competitors reality stars in public figures battling it out for a whopping cash prize this season's cutthroat missions are next level just like whatever alan cumming pulls out of his

Starting point is 00:50:02 brilliantly eccentric wardrobe one thing is for, these 21 players will do anything to avoid a plot in Alan's graveyard. Find out why critics and audiences alike are raving about the Emmy award-winning series. The New York Times is calling it a murder mystery with clothes to die for, and Vox adding that it should be your new reality TV obsession. We are certainly obsessed. Stream every episode of Traders Now only on Peacock. Ladies and gentlemen. What are you doing? What do you mean?

Starting point is 00:50:30 Just keep it simple. I'm making the promo. Just keep it simple. Just say, hey, we're the Brav Bros. Two guys that talk about Bravo. Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, we're the Brav Bros. No. Dude, stop with the voice. Just keep it simple. I've seen promos on TV, dude. This is how you get the fans Oh. Dude, stop with the voice. Just keep it simple.

Starting point is 00:50:45 I've seen promos on TV, dude. This is how you get the fans engaged. This is how you get listeners. We're trying to get listeners here. If we just say, oh, we're two dudes that talk about Bravo, people are going to get tired of it already. We need some oomph. All right, then fine.

Starting point is 00:50:57 Let's try to do it with your voice. Brav Bros. Good job. Well, now that you're married and to the lovely Ryan who has gotten to be, should we bring him in here and get to know Ryan a little bit? Let's get him in here. Get in here, Ryan. Yay!

Starting point is 00:51:14 Woohoo! Have a seat. Come sit next to me. Alright, Ryan, we have to ask you, how is your heart? How is heart yeah why what do you mean like how is it feeling whether is there is it gypsy's heart is full oh my heart is completely full like i am i'm amazed every day that i'm with this woman right here like it's it's been a roller coaster ride but i'm enjoying it i love the fact that I'm the one that's honored to be next to her.

Starting point is 00:51:46 You guys have already been through a lot. Gypsy, you in the documentary. Again, I love your openness. Thanks. For someone who's been criticized for being deceitful and a liar, I'm really inspired by what seems to me a genuine effort to try to get it right. And you talked a little bit about, you know, lying to your stepmother. You've talked about lying to Ryan about Ken. How have you guys continued to work through the struggles that you

Starting point is 00:52:18 have had and how has Ryan continued to be supportive throughout that struggle? I mean, you know, I think it's all about communication. You know, my dad, one of the first things he said when I got engaged was, you need to have good communication or else everything's going to fall apart. So our communication skills are like on point. We're very open and honest with each other, even brutally honest. So if it's something that we don't want to hear, we're going to hear it anyway, because that's that honesty. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:52:48 How about you, Ryan? How has this been for you? Me and Gypsy decided long ago when we got together, you know, we just wanted to be open and honest with each other. Like she said, even if it hurts my feelings or vice versa, you know, we wanted it to be a transparent relationship. You know, we want We want this to work. It's one of those where I have that unconditional love for her, and she does too. She has said in the past that I love the good and the bad Gypsy. Because in past relationships, people have glamorized her and have this perception of her, of that little girl and whatever.

Starting point is 00:53:26 But I just love the person, Gypsy, good and bad. So it's one of those where it's great. People have talked about they've been critical of you guys rushing, acknowledging that, hey, Gypsy hasn't even had a normal life outside of prison. What has been the first week been like? And have there been already kind of like, oh, okay, well, this is new. All right. Like, okay, didn't know that. But any of those moments, any of those things you guys have had to have a moment and said, okay,

Starting point is 00:53:55 this is the beginning of us learning about each other. And, you know, quite honestly, Natalie and I still, you know, have those moments. But what's it been like for you guys? It's been very enjoyable. We spent a couple of days at home. I don't think that there's anything that really shocked me about him. But I will say this right now. So, you know, it's coming. So he's getting used to putting the toilet seat down for me because he's been he's been living by himself for himself for so long i'm like and he's like oh i

Starting point is 00:54:26 put it down every time i'm like so i found it and i found it up and i took a picture of it and i'm like no you don't buying her shoes like as i leave to go buy her something i left it up the other night buddy yeah i got a picture of it it's like see here's proof. And I was just like, well, I'm going to take your shoes back now. Yeah. She got me on that one. Um, what about for you? Anything, you know, that you've learned about gypsy that's been interesting to learn besides that she's not a great cook. Well, you know, she's going to work on that. You know, my mother has told her that she, she would help her. You know, there's some things that I've learned, but it's been great. Like, there's not anything that I don't enjoy. What's one thing you've really enjoyed that surprised you that you've learned?

Starting point is 00:55:13 Well, I love how organized she is. You know, she came in and, you know, I already had like half the closet set up for her, but she took it all. And I was like, fine, take it. I don't care. And it's one of those where I love how organized she is. So our kitchen's like the next project. She's going to go in there and make it her own. And I told her from the get-go, like, when you come home, you know, this is your home.

Starting point is 00:55:34 You know, like, feel free to move anything around that you want. And I will adapt. I'm the man. I'll adapt. You make it your own. And so that's what she's been doing. And it's been great. You know, we were supposed to be in Kansas City for the first weekend she was out.

Starting point is 00:55:48 And then plans changed. Yeah, what happened there, Gypsy? So my parole officer, I have two. So my parole officer in Louisiana said, yeah, you're good to go to the game. I don't mind you spending a few days in Kansas City. I'm good with that. I won't meet with you until after the game. I don't mind you spending a few days in Kansas City. I'm good with that. I won't meet with you until after the holidays. So the day after I get out and we're having this gathering with my parents and my family and my friends. We just got done shopping for shoes.

Starting point is 00:56:15 Yeah. So people are following us. Yes. Yes. We were hounded by paparazzi um but i got a call and it was my missouri parole officer saying so are you on your way back to louisiana and i'm like no i'm like we're gonna stay a few days in kansas city i was very skeptical because like like i said we were being hounded by media like people were following us and a strange number calls my phone because i was the connection and i kind of questioned the parole officer at first. I was like, how do we know? Because he answers the phone and he says, I'm so and so. I need to know where you're going and where you're at. And I was kind of like, no.

Starting point is 00:56:52 You're not getting that information. Like, no. We got people following us. I'm not telling you where we're going. And Gypsy finally had to calm me down because I was I raised it up. And then she's like, stop. It might actually be him. I was like, okay. So then I let, I raised it up and then she's like, stop, it might actually be. And I was like,

Starting point is 00:57:06 okay. So then I let her take over and then come to find out it was her Missouri pro officer telling her she had to leave like right then. Yeah. Because I, he didn't give me permission. The Louisiana one did, but the Missouri one didn't.

Starting point is 00:57:19 And so the Missouri one overruled the Louisiana one. And we have, we have some theories, you know, some might not be right. Some might be good. Yeah. we have, we have some theories, you know, some might not be right. Some might be good. Yeah. She's telling me not to say,

Starting point is 00:57:28 no, we can't share the theories. Is it more so just like the, the attention? Like, do they, do you feel like it's your partly, partly it was because of my safety.

Starting point is 00:57:38 I really feel like partly it was because of my safety, because I think that they were aware of how big this was going to get before it even happened. So they're like, they're like, get her back. No, I mean, news got out that we were going to a Chiefs Bengals game. Yes. And, you know, the rest. Right. Can you picture what I'm saying?

Starting point is 00:57:58 Chiefs Bengals game? Who's Taylor Swift? I didn't say it. He thinks that Taylor Swift is I didn't say it. He thinks that Taylor Swift is the people, not her herself. We don't want it to protect her because here's the situation. I just want to clarify for a second. That's right. Tell the story.

Starting point is 00:58:13 Yeah, I'm going to tell the story. Let's let them have it. Clear the air. Taylor probably will hear this. Okay. So here's the thing. She's a big fan. I am.

Starting point is 00:58:20 We are too. Okay. So about six months before I got out of prison, Ryan and I were looking at fun things to do in Kansas City. Absolutely. And so he saw that there was going to be a Chiefs-Bingles game. And he's a Bingles fan. He's a Joe Burrow fan. Who's your team? Who's my team? The Saints. The New Orleans Saints. That's my home team. So anyway, I said, okay, that would be so cool team so anyway i said okay that would be so cool let's buy tickets because that would be so much fun to do on new year's eve so we bought our tickets and then

Starting point is 00:58:50 you know three months or so later i find out that taylor swift is dating travis kelsey um and so i'm like that was that would be so cool if she was at the game and like I got to meet her. Just happened to run into her. Just happened to run into her. Like do not, like we're going to find her. It was so, you know, it was so like nonchalant. It was just like,

Starting point is 00:59:10 that would be cool because she's my favorite singer. And then TMZ got a hold of the story. But also TMZ, you know, not to, you know, say anything bad about TMZ,

Starting point is 00:59:21 you know, called me a felon. So, I mean, in the article. Like famous murder looking for Taylor Swift. Something like that. That's her first thing she wants to do.

Starting point is 00:59:30 The comments were like, oh my God, Taylor Swift is in danger. This murder is going to come after her. And it became this big thing. It got blown way out of proportion. It got blown out of proportion. I'm not a stalker. So you weren't in any way trying to do like a force me. No, not at all.

Starting point is 00:59:48 Not at all. I was just like, that would have been cool if it ran into her. It is what it is. There's other girls that go to Kansas City Chiefs games hoping that they run into Taylor. There's people who are more. Cameras point to her during the game. Exactly. There's emphasis on it.

Starting point is 01:00:01 She's more at danger from her fans than she is from Gypsy. And then when we found out we had to leave, my first thought was, God, we had so much fun stuff planned. It wasn't just the game. We had other stuff planned. We were going to this place called Enchant. It was where they turn a baseball field into a giant ice hockey rink and with lights everywhere. Yeah, Christmas lights. It's this whole Christmas winter wonderland thing.

Starting point is 01:00:24 But that was the one thing that i was shocked about about her getting out is like plans change at a time drop of a hat so it was one of those where that was an adjustment you know because i realized yes gypsy does have to follow rule like she's technically still considered property of of the state she's on parole. What are your limitations? Okay, so my limitations are no contact with my co-defendant, Nicholas Godijan, take a therapy, you know, therapy. Then I just, I can't drink alcohol

Starting point is 01:00:55 and I can't use drugs, which I don't want to use drugs. So, and I have to ask for permission to leave the state of Louisiana. And other than that, like those are pretty simple conditions. Okay. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:01:06 That's not too bad. Yeah. Not at all. It's totally workable. We have to do it for a year and a half, but you know, when they give advanced directives, we have to follow. So it was one of those where like we had to leave the state. So it was one of those where we got back home, but it was a blessing in disguise because

Starting point is 01:01:20 we, like I said, she got to organize her home, you you know and we got to spend New Year's Eve together and with her with her family and her parents so it was it was wonderful it turned into a blessing it really is awesome again you've talked a lot about how important therapy is to you and I'm getting the impression that regardless of what your parole requires you to do you're committed to therapy oh absolutely and actually Ryan sees a therapist as well, because about a year ago, I had asked him. Trying to better yourself. We're both in therapy. There you go. I was just going to have somebody to talk to. Exactly. Exactly. And somebody that's unbiased, because before that, we were going to our parents and it was kind of a bad situation because they are biased.

Starting point is 01:02:03 Right. And so we were getting advice. Oh, he's such a whatever. Oh, she's such a whatever. I needed someone. Actually, you went to your parents. I didn't go to mine. Yeah, but your mom seems to intervene and on my behalf and everything. So, you know.

Starting point is 01:02:19 We're married now. They can do that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I think therapy just kind of helped him acclimate to me because i'm very emotionally taxing for the first what year of our our relationship i put you through test after test after test just to see if you'd stay yeah i put you through hell i used to say that she'd push me off a cliff and then she'd peek over and say are you still there was there ever a moment where you thought to yourself,

Starting point is 01:02:46 I don't know if I could do this. I'm not sure if this is the situation for me. Honestly, no, because like I knew what we had, you know, that was what I was always fall back, always fall back on is like we have it and I'm not going to risk it. You know, it was one of those where I would say you push me off a cliff, but you've seen those people that put tents on a cliff and they nail it in. I would like i'm just hanging out for a couple days it's no biggie and then when she'd finally peek over and be like you still there i'm like yeah i'm right here i always come back but now that we're married those moments don't happen they really don't like she i think

Starting point is 01:03:20 she did that just to see how much i loved her and see if I was here for the real deal. It's a thing people do. It's a thing people do. Absolutely. But since we've been married, it's been smooth sailing. Have you guys ever considered couples therapy? Even though things seem to be going great. Natalie and I, we actively do couples therapy.

Starting point is 01:03:38 We're big believers in being proactive with our relationship. Is that something you two would ever consider? And being proactive with our relationship. Is that something you two would ever consider, especially given like just the intensity of your relationship and all the other outside influences that whether you want it to or not, you two are going to have to deal with. You have to deal with fans, family, stresses. And, you know, for us, couples therapy is just a great way to always check in, to always reconnect.

Starting point is 01:04:04 Is that something you guys would be open to? Oh, yeah. I'm good with couples therapy. I was actually trying to look for a couples therapy therapist before I even got out of prison and before we even got married. I was listening to marriage podcasts and relationship podcasts. I'd send him an episode. I'm like, let's talk about this one and just talk about the topic.

Starting point is 01:04:29 How do you feel about that? So I was like doing all of that before we even got married. That was different. That was different. But it was just like, you got to listen to this podcast. And I'm like, yeah, but I really listen to this podcast. You know, I'm just being a guy. He's giving you homework.

Starting point is 01:04:43 Yeah, basically. It was like a book report report no um she's right like we we're open and honest to the opportunity to do therapy like if we ever needed it you know this fame thing is so new that it's kind of overwhelmed me in a sorts of like i didn't realize it'd be as big as it is you know i didn't think she'd have six million followers on tiktok and instagram overnight but it's one of those things where you know she's always been worried that i was you know gonna leave for the fame you know because of it because of past relationships and i've told her that i'm not going anywhere and you know like we'll work through whatever we need to work you're

Starting point is 01:05:18 her rock yeah i'm here for the long haul like i'm until death do us part i mean that i mean that yeah that is awesome. One thing we learned in couples therapy and I, it is something when we were watching on the way to do the interview that Natalie reminded me, you talked about Ken, you know, obviously you,

Starting point is 01:05:35 you needed to tell Ryan that you spoke with them. Obviously that was an omission. That is a lie that you, you told. Right. But the dream part, you know, sometimes now I had,

Starting point is 01:05:44 we have gone through this too. It's just like, we always want to be honest. We always got to tell each other everything. And I've been like, that's like our babe. But the dream part, you know, sometimes, now we have gone through this too. It's just like, we always want to be honest. We always got to tell each other everything. And I've been like, that's like our babe. I was like, I had this dream

Starting point is 01:05:50 and I did this thing and she's just like, what the fuck are you? Like, what is going on? It's just like, we learned in our, in couple therapy, it's just like,

Starting point is 01:05:57 yeah, you can be honest, but sometimes you can, like, you don't have to be honest with every thought you have as to not trigger your partner. It's just like, well, you had a dream, but do I need to worry about your dream? You're right. That trauma trigger.

Starting point is 01:06:12 Not to offer you guys unsolicited advice, but it was something that we like we like stuck with that stuck with us because you can do that. Like in that effort of wanting to be open and transparent and like especially for you is like you've made this considered effort to be like, I want to be open and transparent. And like, especially for you, it's like you've made this considered effort to be like, I want to be an honest, I want to be a truthful person and to just want to pour everything out. But like, sometimes it can help to just be like, you know, I probably didn't need to know that. Right, didn't need to know that.

Starting point is 01:06:35 You know, it's funny that you- It's happened before. Yes, it's happened a time or two. I mean, you know, it's actually funny that you mentioned that because, you know, being open and honest around the day that I got out of prison, Ken texted my stepmom and was like, hey, what's up? And she told yeah, she told me about it. And I'm like, oh, so now he wants to come around.

Starting point is 01:06:57 And so I told Ryan about it. I was open and I'm like, you know, he's sniffing around. Why do you think he decided it's time to pop back up? Because I think now I'm free and I don't think that he has respect for my marriage. Well, he doesn't like me because I've called him names. Names. You know, he's known as something to me. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:07:18 I don't see why you should like him. Yeah. I call him a dumb mother. You know. So every time. Every time. Every time. You can swear every time every time he's reached out to me before because well actually gypsy is like asked me to text him like hey we're married now text him because like he still has my stuff like he has stuff of hers that he like old pictures and

Starting point is 01:07:40 stuff that i sent to him to hold on to. Because they were together for a long time. Things you want to get back? Yeah, things I want to. Like, I bought along my time. I was like, oh, this is so cute. And this clothing magazine, I'm going to buy it. And I'm going to send it to your house. And then when I get out, you can give it to me.

Starting point is 01:07:57 And so I've asked him to just ship my stuff to my stepmom. And then I can get it from her. And he's like, no, you know, I still have all that stuff. But like, you know, you can get it from her and he's like no you know i still have all that stuff but like you know you can come get it like he's holding i'm like hostage and i just think he's a dumb motherfucker i'm part of my language i just don't like him well i'm period i mean i mean i don't like i mean i call him that because how would you leave this wonderful woman i mean i'm thankful that he did because I'm with her now. But also him keeping your stuff hostage.

Starting point is 01:08:28 That's a classic shady move. It's a shady move. You can get new stuff, JT. I am. I mean, I got all new stuff, better stuff. Those hoodies, those shirts, they're replaced. Yeah, absolutely. I feel like, you know,

Starting point is 01:08:42 if he's sniffing around to try and like break me and Ryan up or see if I will leave Ryan to get back with him. This is how I feel about it. If you're not going to be there at my worst, you do not deserve me at my best. Okay. Yeah, that's right. And if you know anything about Gypsy's Instagram and you've seen recent comments, she's not going anywhere. I'm flying. It turns out the D is fire.

Starting point is 01:09:09 The D is fire. Come and get it, baby. He's already, he's missed his chance. It is what it is. But like, how fire? Oh, so fire. So fire. And did you come and get it?

Starting point is 01:09:22 I did. I did. Yes, she did. She did. That is so funny. It was one of those where like she made that comment. I was reading my phone. She made a comment.

Starting point is 01:09:32 I'm like, whoa. And then I was like, fine, you know what? I'll go back. I went there. And then all of a sudden it was like our phones were down. And now it's all over everywhere. I've been asked about it all the time. All my comments are the DS fire.

Starting point is 01:09:43 I'm like, oh, my God. Did you see there? Someone took the liberty of editing in what would look like Taylor Swift and Travis having the same conversation. No. Show you what we're done. It was kind of. And someone's like, is this real? No, it's Gypsy Ride.

Starting point is 01:09:58 Yeah. Did you see those memes? There's just, I'm sure, so much that you have got to do. But everyone was doing these countdowns before you got out. Really? And it was you and it was like the prison bars rising. And it was to like, yeah, I'm a cunt. Yeah, yeah, I'm a cunt.

Starting point is 01:10:16 I'm a cunt. It was like hyping you up. It was so funny. And it was just every day there was a new one with a countdown. Well, we had our own countdown that I wouldn't create until a year out. So it was one of those gypsies like,

Starting point is 01:10:28 do it now, we're married. I'm like, no, babe, we got like three, we got 400, 500 days. I'm like, when we get to 365, we'll count it down. So it was kind of strange watching it hit 50

Starting point is 01:10:38 and then 30 and then, boy, and then it was, I still can't believe that she's been out seven days and it's been probably the best seven days of my life. That's incredible. You guys are married.

Starting point is 01:10:49 You've talked about wanting to do another ceremony to kind of do this, you know, the ceremony that you truly want. What are some things that you want at your wedding that you didn't get to have at your original one? And is there a honeymoon that you guys hope to plan and where would you want to go? Okay. So question. Yeah, that's a really good question. you know i definitely am excited about the dress yeah every girl needs that white dress moment right i need the cake um you know i know is a good dressmaker yeah okay all right she's already got an idea what she wants like the style and

Starting point is 01:11:20 everything somebody asked her what she wanted she's was like, hit it perfectly. And I was like, I've been thinking about it a lot. I wasn't ready for that. But yeah, we want to do it. We want to try to do it as close to our anniversary as possible. What is that anniversary? July 21st. We got married.

Starting point is 01:11:35 July 21st, 22. You look online. Everybody says June 22nd or whatever it was. So much speculation. It's awesome that you know that. Nick, when did we get engaged?

Starting point is 01:11:45 Oh, it was. Yeah, there was so much speculation. It's awesome that you know that. Nick, when did we get engaged? Oh, it was 1-12-23. Okay. Very nice. He hit you with that, though. I only remember it's like it's a one. There you go. I crushed that engagement, though.

Starting point is 01:12:02 Did you? Awesome. I did a whole thing. Well, I had to do mine in... You crushed yours engagement though. Did you? Yeah, we did a whole thing. Well, I had to do mine in. You crushed yours, man. Man, I did mine in prison

Starting point is 01:12:09 and she ended up getting in trouble for like 30 days. She couldn't call me. I did. I got phone restriction because I smuggled in a ring. Smuggled in a ring. They almost banned me.

Starting point is 01:12:18 But I, like, they almost banned me. Exactly. Really? They almost banned me for six months for it. Because like,

Starting point is 01:12:24 you can't give a contraband but like i wanted to ask her to marry me with a real ring you know it's one of those where and then she wore it and they saw it during photos and you know they didn't think anything of it they didn't end our visit but it was funny it was i had the engagement ring and then like you know it came with a wedding band so i put the wedding band on my chain and on the way out she was like can i can you take your chain off and i was like for what you know like in my head i'm like why and then i showed her and she was like okay did you give gypsy a ring and i'm like no of course not this ring's my grandmother's and she said well that's funny because the ring we confiscated

Starting point is 01:12:59 looks just like that wedding band that's on your chain and finally she was like come clean i was like yes i did i'm sorry i couldn't help it it was for love i was on your chain. And finally she was like, come clean. I was like, yes, I did. I'm sorry. I couldn't help it. It was for love. I was like, I love her. And then she was like, thank you for being honest. Look, you won't get in trouble. But later, you know, it's funny.

Starting point is 01:13:14 She called me after we left. She's like, hey, baby. Yeah, they got my ring. But like, you know, everything was good. And then I was like, baby, let me tell you what happened. She was like, what'd you say? What'd you do? And I was like, baby, I didn't do anything.

Starting point is 01:13:26 And then later she got in trouble like a week later. You talked a lot in the documentary about, and you referenced earlier that you really put them through it. And that, you know, you can push and you can be reactive sometimes. Where are you guys now with that? And how have you worked through that issue? Where are you guys now with that? And how have you worked through that issue? Well, I definitely am not as reactionary as I used to be because we're able to actually be in the same room.

Starting point is 01:13:51 We're able to touch. We're able to hug. I was just so insecure while I was in prison. I'm like, there's no way he's going to stay. There's no way he's going to stay. Something's going to F it up. And I'm going to F it up because I'm just not going to do this right. And I was trying to not make the mistakes I did with ken but but he's not ken and not at all way better in every aspect and so

Starting point is 01:14:13 you know he's listening so he's gonna hate and i was just so. So I was trying to hold on too tight. But at the same time, I'm like, let me just test the waters. And I have this push pull problem. And I've done that in all my relationships where I push someone away, but I'm like,

Starting point is 01:14:38 leave me alone, but no, come back. I mean, you want to like fight and chase you. Yeah. Because I'd fight. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:14:44 I'd fight for the relationship so i want my partner to fight for me too and so you know unfortunately i put him through a lot of tests um i passed each one with flying color every single one but i don't i don't do that anymore no she really doesn't i don't do that anymore we're married now we're married we're comfortable we We're sound. We are perfect. Did it change once you got married or more so once you got out and you were able to be together? I think you got out.

Starting point is 01:15:12 I don't know. I'd say, you know, we had a moment. We had moments. We had moments after we got married. You know, Gypsy, I think the walls caved in on her at one point. She thought, holy shit, I'm really married. You know, she's just, you know, we got married. And then four months later, it was like, oh, shit, I'm really married. You know, she's just, you know, we got married and then four months later it was like, Oh God,

Starting point is 01:15:29 I'm really married. That's when the annulment story happened. That's when that came out. Well, can you, I don't, I'm not even familiar. Oh,

Starting point is 01:15:35 you're not familiar. Okay. Like if you look online, it says it's like now it's probably not because they see us together, but for a while people thought that we got in our marriage annulled. And Gypsy wrote an email like in the thick of the moment. It was like, I think we're going to have to get an annulment and send it to a friend. A friend posted it.

Starting point is 01:15:55 Right. They shared it. And then I, during that argument, I surprised visitor because I live in Louisiana and had to drive 13 and a half hours. So I surprised her and then we worked it out right then. Like the moment she saw me, she was like, I don't want to get in a while. I love you. I don't want to do this. And so, you know, people ran with that story.

Starting point is 01:16:13 So that was like four months into our marriage. We've been married, what, a year? A year and a half. A year and a half. So we've been solid, pretty good ever since that moment. But that one moment made people think we got divorced. And you'd see comments, oh, they're divorced. They're most, you know, but not anymore.

Starting point is 01:16:29 Obviously not. Yeah, exactly. And you know, it was very interesting. So, you know, I know that you were on The Bachelor. And this guy that was. Oh, we heard. You heard about it? I've never met him.

Starting point is 01:16:41 I don't think he's well. Yes, obviously not. And so when. I called him met him. I don't think he's well. Yes, obviously not. And so when I had a friend reach out to me and it's like, if this guy reaches out to you, he is just going to use you for clout. Just know that. And then that night he sent me an email saying like, hey, I'm a famous reality star. And look at me. Look at me. I want to hit you up.

Starting point is 01:17:04 And I'm like like he was posting on his instagram that they were already talking that we were already in like in a relationship and i was like dude that's my wife man what are you talking about yeah and he said he was gonna come to visit me so i immediately was like and he even got on my visiting list i was so freaked out by it i went back to the caseworker and i was like i have a stalker i need you to get him off my visiting list now like i don't know this man i he's just someone that is trying to use me for fame all right we need to shut this down now you know what's funny is i i i used to not do social media at all so like gypsy tells me the story i'm like

Starting point is 01:17:41 where is he posting this oh yeah she said instagram and i was like he didn't even have an instagram account and i'll let him have it immediately so when people say you know before oh he just married gypsy for cloud i don't even have social media you know if that tells you anything like i would be like look at me look at me i'm married i didn't even have a social media until he showed up and tried to claim something so did he respond to you no he never responded to me, but he later blocked me. And then later was like, Brian sent me threatening voicemail. I'm like, no, I didn't. I told you to leave my wife alone, you panty wearing douchebag.

Starting point is 01:18:16 That's what I called him. Because every picture he's wearing is his. I was just so mad at that moment. But I was like, leave my wife alone. Keep my wife's name out your mouth. What was your favorite Bachelor season? I don't remember. Trick question.

Starting point is 01:18:31 I don't remember this. She's like Ben Higgins. She's like Ben Higgins for sure. That was good. Trick question. We love Pop Culture. We talk a lot about it on this show. What are you a fan of? Do you watch any Housewives? Did you know about Scandival? No. Nope. That's okay. I don show. What are you a fan of? Do you watch any Housewives?

Starting point is 01:18:46 Did you know about Scandival? Nope. That's okay. She's got a lot of kitchen up to her. What are you a fan of other than obviously Taylor, Ariana Grande? What are you into right now that people need to know? I love 90 Day Fiance. So good. I like Married at First Sight.

Starting point is 01:19:04 You like those TLC shows. Yeah, I like the TLC and things like that. You know, I'm not super big into reality. But I think that over the course of a couple years ago, I just kind of fell off from watching a lot of TV. So I have like one show or two shows a week that I dedicate my time because I've spent the last three years talking to my my husband for hours at a time.

Starting point is 01:19:29 And even my former roommates were like, Gypsy can't watch a show like she just literally she's like in the middle of it. I got to go call Ryan. You know, right before she got out, I was realized she was spending three. I was spending three hundred fifty dollars a month on phone time. So, you know, just to talk to this beautiful woman. So one of those now that she's out, I'm like, yeah, save money. But then my people are like, but

Starting point is 01:19:52 you're not going to really save money. And I can already see, yeah, that was a mistake to say that. She was buying her shoes. She's worth it. It's no biggie. Now, Ryan has some hobbies. Yeah, he has some interest. Go ahead. It's no biggie. Now, Ryan has some hobbies. Yeah. He has some interest. Go ahead.

Starting point is 01:20:07 Tell him you're interested. Come on, man. He knows I'm a wrestling fan. You've seen my license plate. That was a thing. He's a huge WWE fan. Yeah, I'm a huge wrestling fan, so I get picked on. That's men's soap opera.

Starting point is 01:20:19 I'm not an into anymore. I was as a kid, but I have buddies of mine who are super fans. You liked it as a kid. Who'd you like as a kid? Oh, it was like macho man, Randy Savage, Hulk Hogan,

Starting point is 01:20:29 the classics. I was a bread heart guy. Bam, bam, Bigelow. I was a bread heart guy. Oh my gosh. So like the license plate that I picked her up and said,

Starting point is 01:20:36 hit man, bread heart, where everybody's like, Oh, the hit man, hit man's picking gypsy. And I'm like, come on,

Starting point is 01:20:41 grow up people. Are you still a teacher? Yes, I am. I am. I am on a, like a two. Are you still a teacher? Yes, I am. You are. I am. I am on like a two-week leave right now so I can get gypsy all the way up. I have an history degree, actually.

Starting point is 01:20:52 Yeah, that's what my degree is. What's your favorite part of history? I love World War II, like 1919, Treaty of Versailles, and then on, and then World War II, and then like what happened immediately after. Like I love Cold War stuff. Yeah. Like we could probably, I'm a big fan of history myself. Right on.

Starting point is 01:21:11 There's something I liked about you. I have a few more questions for you guys, especially around like you guys wanted to have kids and what type of parents you want to be. Before we get to that, it's time for texting office hours. Okay. We have a caller calling in. We do this every episode with our guests. They are looking for

Starting point is 01:21:25 different types of relationship advice. And as we always say, we're not experts, but we have made a lot of our own mistakes. We try very hard to learn from our mistakes and we try to offer wisdom through our mistakes. Okay. So if you guys are down to help this caller out.

Starting point is 01:21:41 Yeah. Bring it on. Let's bring them on. Ship Station. If you are running any type of business shipping products to your customers you are in desperate need of ship station ship station is the go-to shipping app for all well i don't know about all but for the most successful companies in the land, it doesn't matter how big or how small your company is. ShipStation is helping all sizes of companies reduce their shipping costs and provide better customer service to their customers with discounts up to 89% off USPS and UPS rates. You heard me right. That's 89% off. Over 130,000 companies have grown their e-commerce businesses with ShipStation, and 98% of those companies that stick with ShipStation for a year become customers for life. Whether you are shipping from Amazon, Etsy, eBay, Shopify,

Starting point is 01:22:38 and more, ShipStation seamlessly integrates with whatever platform that you are using and gets you the up-to-date analytics and insights into your business, your orders, providing better real-time customer service to your customers, and most importantly, helping you reduce those shipping costs, which are probably some of the highest costs of your business. So help your business today with ShipStation. Use promo code V-I-A-L-L today at ShipStation.com to sign up for a free 30-day trial. That's ShipStation.com, promo code V-I-A-L-L. ShipStation, make ship happen. This episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. Hey, listen, it's the holidays. It's winter. A lot of reasons to, you know, feel down. You know, you don't even need a reason to feel down.

Starting point is 01:23:27 Sometimes you feel down. Sometimes you're stressed out. Sometimes life is getting you down. Sometimes you're not connecting with your partner. Sometimes you're not getting along with your parents. Whatever the reason is, BetterHelp is here to help you work through those issues and just have someone to talk to. You know, dealing and helping protect your mental health has never been more important. And BetterHelp is making it easier than ever before to finally jump

Starting point is 01:23:50 into therapy. We understand that therapy can be daunting. It can be expensive. It can be hard to find the right person to speak with. And BetterHelp is helping in all those categories. For one, they are working with new therapists every day so that when you go to BetterHelp and you fill in a little questionnaire about what you're looking for, they will look to attach a mental health professional that fits your needs. And you know what? You might not connect with your therapist at first. It might not be the person that you just want to tell all your most intimate feelings about. And so that's no problem. You can shuffle through a couple of therapists before you

Starting point is 01:24:26 land on someone that you really connect with. They make it super easy to find someone that you feel the most comfortable with. And you can do that from the comfort of your home, your car. It's way more affordable in-person therapy. The flexibility with BetterHelp and convenience is top notch. And if you are looking to get into therapy today, you got to check out BetterHelp. Not only do I really love my therapist and I feel like I've gotten a lot of tools in my toolkit, but I feel like everybody who works for BetterHelp, when I had to make a switch in therapists because of scheduling differences, they emailed me back directly. They were like, hey, we've done the research.

Starting point is 01:25:03 Here are three new therapists that have availability on the morning that works for you. Let me know who you're interested in. If not, I'll keep looking. So it just felt like a very personalized experience, which was really nice. We love that. Celebrate the progress you've already made. Visit betterhelp.com slash V-I-A-L-L today to get 10% off your first month. That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash V-I-A-L-L. Draft King Sports Pick, an official sports betting partner of the NFL playoffs is bringing you an offer that'll

Starting point is 01:25:31 help make the playoffs electrifying. New customers can bet five bucks on any game and get 200 instantly in bonus bets. Hey, listen, if you're watching NFL playoffs with your man and you want to make it a little bit more exciting and let the juices flow, you got to check out DraftKings Sportsbook now. Also, if you want to maybe connect with your partner for a little bit of online gambling, especially when you do it responsibly, a little side bets on the NFL games through DraftKings makes your NFL watching experience so much fun and interactive.

Starting point is 01:26:06 Even if you're just putting down $5, $10, do it with your friends, do it with your partner. It makes it really exhilarating and fun. Download the DraftKings Sportsbook app now and use code V-I-A-L-L. New customers can bet just $5 to get $200 instantly

Starting point is 01:26:21 in bonus bets only on DraftKings Sportsbook with code V-I-A-L-L. The crown is yours. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or visit www.1800gambler.net. In New York, call 877-8-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY-467369. In Connecticut, help is available for problem gambling. Call eight, eight, eight, seven, eight, nine, seven, seven, seven, seven, or visit ccpg.org. Please

Starting point is 01:26:52 play responsibly on behalf of boot Hill casino and resort in Kansas. 21 plus age varies by jurisdiction Boyd in Ontario bonus bets expire 168 hours after issuance. See dkng.com slash football for eligibility and deposit restrictions, terms, and responsible gaming resources. How's it going? Hi, Nick. My name is Charlotte. I'm 35 and I'm scared I cannot keep up with my husband's sex drive. Okay. All right. Well, give us a little more context behind what's going on.

Starting point is 01:27:30 Okay. So he is 37 years old. And within the last two months, it's been like a complete 180 in regards to his initiating sex, his wanting sex, basically his sex drive, right? That wanting it every single day almost. And he's been wanting to go again after he finishes. And this is completely different than the way it used to be.

Starting point is 01:27:57 We've been together for eight years, married for three. I was always kind of the initiator, you know, I was okay with that, right? At first, I was a little nervous, you know, like, what's gonna, is this gonna maintain like this, but it's worked out well for us. It's waxed and waned throughout the years. We have three kids, so obviously during pregnancy and postpartum, things slowed down, but we always get back to a place where I think both of us are comfortable. But within the last two months,

Starting point is 01:28:28 it's been crazy how much more he wants it. Have you addressed it with him or have you just gone with the flow? Well, you know, I've gone with the flow because, you know, like, obviously I'm a beneficiary here. I can't complain but you know i've asked him like basically like babe this is crazy like this is so unlike you what's going on and he kind of

Starting point is 01:28:57 just is like i don't know maybe it's a change in testosterone i'm not a hundred percent sure if he even really knows what's going on. But you feel good that he's not. I mean, because there are things that men can do to increase testosterone. Right. I was about to ask that. If he's taking any supplements or anything, because that could increase the sex drive. And some men can be self-conscious about acknowledging that.

Starting point is 01:29:23 Are we confident that there's none of that going on? Yeah, I'm pretty confident that's not going on. Did you change your look up any? Like maybe, I mean, I would find it flattering, right? No, yeah, right. I don't want to like knock it, right? I definitely am happy with what's going on, except like it's hard to keep up. It's hard to keep up. like every single night we have three

Starting point is 01:29:47 kids i'm a working mom like i come home i'm tired i'm uh overstimulated over touched and then it's like oh man now i've got a you know yeah are you feeling like a little almost under pressure as much as you are enjoying it like is it just a little like okay like i'm you know having a hard time keeping up here yes yes that would be the key that the reason why i'm writing it well first because i since you're an older gentleman i was like maybe nick knows there's something some sort of change that happens in your late 30s that could cause this but if not then I mean like you said it sounds

Starting point is 01:30:29 drastic like you said a flip of a switch I mean I'm 37 so I'm the same age as your husband but like I'm not really good at this topic because my wife just came home so like I'm I'm trying to get it.

Starting point is 01:30:46 You didn't want to? Oh, you were last night. You didn't want to. Come on. You guys just spilled some stuff out there. Yeah. You were like, I'm so tired. Turned her down last night.

Starting point is 01:30:57 Press day. Come on. Press day. We were interviewed by a lot of people, baby. Don't act like you come at me that's a hard one you know um all i could say is maybe like compromise see if um you know be very honest and just be like i think this is a little too much for me um right you know do you know how he would react if you would just tell him like, listen, I'm feeling a little overwhelmed.

Starting point is 01:31:27 Do you think that we can compromise to maybe this many times a week max or, you know, whatnot to kind of have you both happy and find a medium for you guys? Yeah, he's very understanding. So I communicated that with him. I'm sure he would not be like, absolutely not. Like, I need this. But I also like, you know, like I want to please him. Right. He's your husband.

Starting point is 01:31:55 Absolutely. Yeah, but don't feel pressure. Don't feel pressure because that's your partner. You're supposed to feel comfortable with your partner. And if he loves you, he will do his best for you and make you happy. And, you know, so it goes both ways. It's not one way or the other like you guys are in a marriage so it's it's both ways i mean you said it perfectly because it seems like there's this underlying concern because you know someone who's been with someone for eight years married for three

Starting point is 01:32:19 right ryan it can be comfortable with being like hey babe i'm tired and quite honestly as much as we laugh and joke about it, that's okay for both people in a relationship to, to, to not be in the mood, you know, and we shouldn't have to worry about living in fear of, of not performing, um, you know, of a snap of a fingers and worry if, if our partner is gonna, you know, respond in a way that, you way that we have to worry about?

Starting point is 01:32:45 Is that something that you're concerned with? You know, it's okay. So when I talked to him about it and asked him what's going on, why the sudden change, he expressed it to me that even like, you know, mastery isn't doing it for him anymore. Like he just needs the, you know master me isn't doing it for him anymore like he just needs the you know the vagina and he needs you

Starting point is 01:33:10 I'm like if he's not getting mine it's gonna go somewhere I was thinking that's probably what you were thinking you're a fear that he might try to get it somewhere else yeah have you expressed that insecurity

Starting point is 01:33:25 to him i have not i have not well i think it's okay to do that i mean you know it really is all about communication you know and you have to be able to both you know express um you know happiness to each other you know admiration all that you know the compliments but you know even in marriage you know even in eight-year relationships you know things change. He's not a mind reader. Yeah. He's not a mind reader. And we have to know what our partners are insecure about, you know, because the worst, the worst thing you can do is not communicate that insecurity and your body is still going to respond and you're going to start acting differently. Maybe you won't even realize. And then he might look at you and say, why is she acting this way? And then respond to that.

Starting point is 01:34:09 Meanwhile, you guys are just guessing about what's going on rather than just saying it. Right, right. And you're not saying anything wrong. You're just saying, hey, babe, like, one, like, first of all, and always, as I say, lead with love. Love the sex, babe. You're awesome. The D is fire. I love this new, you know, excitement that we have.

Starting point is 01:34:31 But listen, you know, I'm working. We got the kids. Is he also, like, is he stepping it up in the household, so to speak, to help with the kids and the chores? So, like, and maybe there's a way, like, hey, well, maybe give him some chores to do. I don't know. Like, maybe there's ways that he can the chores. So like, and maybe there's a way like, hey, well maybe give him some chores to do. I don't know. Like maybe there's ways that he can help out. So whatever, or you have more energy. Either way, it just comes down

Starting point is 01:34:52 to you communicating with him. And it's really important that you share the things that you worry about and the things that bother you and how he responds to that matters. You know, what he should say is like, well, first of all, babe, you know, thanks for sharing, but I wouldn't do that. But I acknowledge your insecurity. I just really love you. I really desire you. And I wouldn't go anywhere else. Hopefully that's what

Starting point is 01:35:12 he has to say. But that being said, I always say, pay attention to how people respond, you know, pay attention to his body and, you know, does he have to pause? And if, if something feels off, don't be afraid to ask more questions. He is your husband and you guys should be able to talk about both the good and the bad just as you guys been so open with as well absolutely you don't think that this increase could be happening because he's like getting some external like flirtation and he's redirecting it towards me right like is is there a is there a fear there is there a past there that makes you wonder a little bit it's like it's like it's not like a full-blown you know cheating but so there's like what do you mean though was there like a moment where he met someone and like it was doing some like kind of emotional cheating right yeah yeah um there's a

Starting point is 01:36:06 woman he worked with this happened after we had our first child um so we were in a weird place as it was because that first year having a kid it's it's like crazy um so we were in a weird place there was a woman at his job we made it very clear that she was interested and he left the door wide open did not shut it down circumstances where he would go out and say he was just with his friends and she was there um so unfortunately that I feel like that's just gonna be in the back of my head for the rest of my life. How was the sex drive then? It was, it was like, it was how it was increased, but not like this, but it increased. Okay. So I guess the whole point is you don't necessarily have a reason to worry,

Starting point is 01:36:55 but it's more than justified that you're feeling these feelings is what I'm trying to say. You know, you're not crazy. Right. And more than anything, you're more than justified to bring it to his attention again. Like your flags would be totally okay for you to say, hey, babe, again, like love this increase the sex. But, you know, we have had a past we had to work through and I can glad we worked through it and yada, yada, yada. But again, it is okay for you to bring those things up to him. I'm like, you need to be able to express to your husband, the things that you worry about, like don't torture yourself and keep it inside.

Starting point is 01:37:36 Like you need to say, Hey, listen, like that hurt. And that bothered me. And I'm not trying to throw it in your face. I'm just saying like things have changed drastically. And to your point, like, I think what you're saying, what your body's telling you is there is a reason. And I don't know what the reason is until I know the reason I'm going to keep asking questions.

Starting point is 01:37:54 And again, I think that is also okay to communicate with him, you know, and he shouldn't be defensive because you're not going to say this in an attacking way. You're not going to come out and be like, I know you did something. You're just going to be like, I'm just checking in something I'm worried about. Something I'm insecure about would love your help with this and, you know, see how he responds. Okay. Okay. I can do that. I can do that. Okay. Yeah. No, I just feel like, you know, when you forgive someone for something like that,

Starting point is 01:38:23 it feels wrong to bring it up. You know, it's like kind of forgive and forget. Right. So for me, five years later, you can forgive, but remember that time you're a human being,

Starting point is 01:38:34 you have a memory. And again, it's all about how you approach it. You know, like that is something you guys chose to overcome and good for you for overcoming it. But like you have the right to say, and again,

Starting point is 01:38:43 it's all about your delivery. Right. You know, it just, I got triggered. It just made me think of this and you know, can we talk about it? And it might not be him in that same situation. It might not be that same situation because I would be worried personally if he just stopped wanting it all together. Right. It might not be that same situation it just might be you know he finds you more attractive or he's maybe getting to that midlife crisis still you never know he might be feeling like i need to keep it up or i'm afraid i'm gonna lose it like maybe that's something like that and i've experienced something not not to to the fact of of sex but uh compliments so uh my husband has i have told him

Starting point is 01:39:28 multiple times he gives me too many compliments um and because it's so repetitive it almost kind of feels a little uncomfy yes i don't take compliments very well but he gives them so often he's like you're so beautiful you're so this you're so amazing and the first one i'm like you could have stopped at the first one um you know and i've actually i'm like okay stop with the freaking compliments but then he goes two days without giving me compliments and then i'm like so i'm ugly you don't compliment me anymore you don't you're not attracted to me so yeah so you hate me you got you have to communicate your feelings and like i said, that communication will go a long way and see if he's willing to compromise. Whatever this stemmed from, you know, don't contribute that to the past automatically.

Starting point is 01:40:15 You know, don't go to the worst thing possible because you could drive yourself crazy by doing that. So just really communicate with him. And like he said, you know, ask him about it. Just really communicate with him. And like, like he said, you know, ask him about it. Okay. Okay. I can do that. This is your husband. This is not a stranger.

Starting point is 01:40:30 This is your husband. You've been with him for eight years, you know, ins and outs, like you're comfortable with him. Is there any part of you that's afraid of asking questions because you're afraid of the answers? Good, good question. I don't, you know, I think about that. I'm like, there's just that we're so busy

Starting point is 01:40:46 there's no way he could be doing something maybe check in with your husband you know you've already worked through something before as Natalie said he's your husband as Gypsy and Ryan have pointed out

Starting point is 01:41:02 you gotta communicate and the good news is in a way you haven't done it yet. So there's a lot of, there's a lot of opportunity here for you to reconnect for this to be an issue. You no longer have to stress yourself over and you can just start enjoying the good sex that you're having, but it just needs to, you just need to talk to them. And like Gypsy said, compromise, you know, and you have the right to say no. I mean, I hate the idea that you're at any point having sex with your husband out of fear for how he might respond. So I want you to always feel comfortable.

Starting point is 01:41:34 Okay, good. So just talk to him, see what he has to say, pay attention to his answers and then give us an update. Cause you know, we love a good update. Right. Of course. Of course. Yeah. Thank you guys. Thank you. All course. Yeah. Thank you, guys. Thank you. All right. Well, hopefully this was helpful. It was.

Starting point is 01:41:48 It was. Yeah. No, I just have to communicate. Okay. And it's going to be okay. Lead with love. Compliment them. Make them feel good.

Starting point is 01:41:55 Babe, love it. It's good. It's fire. You know? It is. Right? I can't complain. I think it's the fact that you have this thought in the back of your head that is messing.

Starting point is 01:42:08 It's you're you're just too much. You're thinking too much about it. And so you can't really enjoy it. You think there's something wrong. And so you're like, there's so much sex because there's something wrong. And you can't be like, there's so much sex because we're just like we just reconnected and we're feeling each other. It's this thing that's in the back of your head. So you've got to remove that from the back of your head.

Starting point is 01:42:26 And then I think maybe it will be a little different. You said like in the past, you always instigated it. Is it the fact that he's instigating it now and it's throwing you off too? Because Gypsy likes, let me just say this, Gypsy likes to control it. You know, so she's the one that likes to come on to me. And if I come on to her, she's like, eh, eh, come on now. Yeah, I am, I am. I mean, is it that throwing you off as well? I mean, Oh yeah, definitely. Definitely. Yeah. Because it's just like, Oh, I mean,

Starting point is 01:42:53 I love it because like, it's different. It's fun. It's like, who is this guy? Right. Um, but still I'm like, well, why all this, why the sudden switch? Right. Like who is this guy? I know this guy, this guy's my husband. Just, uh, I think your assignment is to go talk to your husband tonight, communicate with him, get on the same page and just make sure you feel like you guys understand each other and go from there.

Starting point is 01:43:20 Okay. Okay. I can do that. Well, give us an update. Okay. Okay. Perfect. Thank you so much. Well, give us an update. Okay. Okay. Perfect. Thank you so much, guys. Thank you. Gypsy, Ryan, your, your therapy shows through. It's really cool. It's always fun to see people who are investing themselves in their mental health and therapy and just the way you guys speak. It really,

Starting point is 01:43:42 it comes across. We have something great. We really do have it. It's one of those where, it's one of those things, we just have it. I feel it. Well, I know you guys have to get going,

Starting point is 01:43:52 but I just wanted to have, you know, one final question again. You talk about parenting. You want to have kids someday. You've been through a lot, obviously, as a child. Have you guys had conversations or maybe you guys

Starting point is 01:44:03 could just answer individually, you know, what kind of parents do you want to be and what is really important to you when you start having children, your approach to raising them? So I think my approach is going to be, you know, I don't want to shelter them too much, but just enough to where I'm being a good mom and protective, but I don't want to over shelter them. Cause that's what my mom did to me. And actually my mom did to me. Something is completely different.

Starting point is 01:44:30 Um, but, but you know, um, I just, I want to take lessons from my step mom. I like the way she parents. She's no,

Starting point is 01:44:40 no, no sugarcoating shit. She just puts it all on the line and, you know, lets us make mistakes because I have three other siblings. So, you know, they're half siblings. So anyway, she parents each kid, you know, the same. She loves us all the same. She's more of a, listen, I'll let you do what you want. And if it falls apart, I'll be there to pick up the pieces after. That's the kind of parent that I want to be. I think Ryan is a big teddy bear and he will cave into every request.

Starting point is 01:45:12 I don't know. That's how I think Nick will be. I think I don't want to spoil our kids. I want them to have things they want and need. I don't want to over spoil a kid because when you over spoil a kid, it causes bad things to happen and they become entitled. I don't want to do that. Gy because when you over spoil a kid, it causes bad things to happen and they become entitled. I don't want to do that. Gypsy thinks I'm going to spoil them rotten.

Starting point is 01:45:29 Well, I mean, like if they deserve it, maybe. You'll find that balance. Yeah, I'm going to find that balance. I think Gypsy's going to be a great parent, obviously. I wouldn't have married her if I didn't think so. You know, it's one of those where I think she's going to be a great parent. Just she's sweet and innocent and beautiful. And it's one of those where she's going to be great. She's going to be a great parent. Just she's sweet and innocent and beautiful. And it's one of those where she's going to be great.

Starting point is 01:45:47 She's going to be a great nurturer. So it's one of those. I just want to, you know, I've helped my mother raise my nephew in a way. So one thing I told myself with kids, with our kids, I'm not going to ever lie to them. I'm going to tell them truth and tell them this is how it is, you know, even on the hard questions. You know, even if they try to ask about their mother, you know,

Starting point is 01:46:06 like what has happened, I'll tell them the truth, but also give them context and, you know, try to just steer them in the right direction. Hope they make the right decision. I'm not going to try to make their decision. Do you worry about that all, having to have that conversation with your children? Of course, I'm dreading it. I know it's going to have to happen someday.

Starting point is 01:46:22 But we're going to be open and honest. Yeah, yeah. I mean, not right off the flip, you know, as a young child, you know, we're not going to tell our three-year-old, oh, your mommy did this. But, you know, when they're old enough to really start grasping

Starting point is 01:46:36 the concept, I think until then, you know, when they ask, why is grandma on your side not around? Well, she will be because you're stepmom. Christy's a great filly. You know, she's great. But, you know, someday they're going to find out about it.

Starting point is 01:46:51 And so I want to wait for that moment to where they can grasp the concept and understand and not like resent me for it or anything. They won't. So it's something that I have thought about. What I am afraid of is the content that is online. Unfortunately, there has been so much out there that I can't take that back. So I can't protect them from the knowledge

Starting point is 01:47:18 that this happened. But all I can do is tell them in the appropriate time and explain to them my reasons yeah I mean obviously you guys have an extreme story but I think every parent nowadays and we're expecting I have to worry about content that you know we're all recording stuff I think with an unawareness of our kids seeing it someday so obviously yours is very unique but you won't be the only ones and you're not alone in that in that space so um i can't thank you guys enough for your of your time oh

Starting point is 01:47:50 man i can sit here i can sit here for more two more hours like to consider us all friends now and i just want to say gypsy you know as someone who really has been inspired by your story you went through so much and obviously, you know, you've had to serve your time, but from where I can stand and where I sit, you know, more than anything, you know, I think to me, life is about choices and it's about making those choices. And that was stolen from you. And ever since you've been in prison, you have clearly gone out of your way to make different choices for yourself. And I think you absolutely deserve everyone's benefit of the doubt. Thank you. And I wish you guys nothing but the best. And, you know, for all the, you know, I don't think a lot of people change, you know,

Starting point is 01:48:33 we talk a lot about this on this show. It can be hard for people to change, but for the few people who actually do the work and, you know, try to reflect on why they are the way they are, what happened to them and they're willing to do the work, I think they have the benefit to not live with shame and guilt because they are actually actively going out there and trying to change. And it seems clear to me that that's what you're doing. And so I wish you all the best.

Starting point is 01:48:54 Thank you so much. Thank you very much. That means a lot to me. We're really proud of you and we're rooting for you. Thank you. It means a lot. Absolutely. And we're always here if you're in LA.

Starting point is 01:49:03 Okay. You'll have to come back and we'll talk some pop culture with some other advice in the future. Can't wait. Well, we can't thank you guys enough for listening. I hope you guys enjoyed this episode,

Starting point is 01:49:11 episode with gypsy and Ryan. Thanks again so much for listening. It's your first time again, subscribe, review all that fun stuff. Don't forget to send those questions that ask Nick at the file files.com. And don't forget on Thursday, we got that goinger episode with Clayton

Starting point is 01:49:25 Eckhart. You will not want to miss that. Another dramatic story. And yeah, it's going to be wild. Take care. Bye.

The Viall Files - E689 Going Deeper with Gypsy Rose Blanchard and Ryan Anderson - “I Have a Voice Now”

There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click on any sentence in the transcript to leave a comment.