The Viall Files - E694 Going Deeper with Allison Holker - “Keep Dancing Through”

Episode Date: January 18, 2024

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Going Deeper Edition! To start things out, the household gets together to talk about Taylor Swift’s second cousin, Jason Kelce retiring from the NFL, and Vanderpump Villa (with some insider tea from the casting process). Then, we are joined by Allison Holker to talk about her year since the passing of her husband, Stephen “tWitch” Boss. She’s able to enlighten us about her grief journey, and what she is looking forward to in 2024. We also talk about her children’s book “Keep Dancing Through,” that she and Stephen wrote before he passed. Allison also gives Nick and Natalie some parenting and childbirth advice before we have a Texting Office Hours caller who is struggling after a breakup and debating reaching out to her ex to get answers. “Something that happens to you does not define you.”  Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes. Listen To Disrespectfully now! Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/disrespectfully/id1516710301 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0J6DW1KeDX6SpoVEuQpl7z?si=c35995a56b8d4038 Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCh8MqSsiGkfJcWhkan0D0w To Order Nick’s Book Go To: http://www.viallfiles.com  If you would like to get some texting advice on Office Hours send an email to [e-mail] with “Texting Office Hours” in the subject line! To advertise on the show, contact [e-mail] or visit https://www.advertisecast.com/TheViallFiles  THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Chomps - Right now, Chomps is offering our listeners 20% off your first order and free shipping when you go to https://www.Chomps.com/VIALL  EveryPlate - Get a meal for $1.49 PLUS $1 steaks for life by going to https://www.EveryPlate.com/podcast and entering code 49viall. Subscription must be active to qualify and redeem $1 steak.” Vuori - Not only will you receive 20% off your first purchase, but enjoy free shipping on any U.S. orders over $75 and free returns. Go to https://www.vuori.com/viall and discover the versatility of Vuori Clothing. Drizly - Is your January looking dry? Download the Drizly app or go to https://www.Drizly.com Must be 21+, not available in all locations. Apostrophe Skincare - We have a special deal for our audience: Get your first visit for only five dollars at https://www.Apostrophe.com/VIALL when you use our code: VIALL. That’s a savings of fifteen dollars! This code is only available to our listeners. Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @nnataliejjoy @allisonholker @alison.vandam @dereklanerussell @leahgsilberstein

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plus $1 steaks for life by going to everyplate.com slash podcast and entering code 49VIALL. Subscriptions must be active to qualify and redeem $1 steak. what's going on everybody welcome back to another exciting episode of the vile files going deeper edition i am your host nick joined by the household we got my, my fiance. Natalie Joy is with us. Justin, the sweet, sweet boy that he is. Allie is in whatever.

Somewhere. She's somewhere. My love. Now it's just fun. My beautiful angel. Sweet, sweet boy, Justin. And Allie's in St. Paul. And we also have introducing another member of the household.

She's been with us for a while now. Leah is with us. Hello. Hi, Leah. She's been with us for a while now. Leah is with us. Hello. Hi, Leah. She's been with us for two weeks. That's a long time. That's a decade. It's like forever now. But we brought Leah in because she's got some tea we'll get into

a little bit. She has a juicy story to tell. Nice little story that I thought was... Might as well come from the horse's mouth. Relevant to, yeah, the Vow Files. What's up, Leah? How are you? What's up? I'm good. I'm good.

Do you want to tell the audience a little bit about yourself? Oh, man, I'm really being put on the spot here. Yeah. This is like my biggest fear. I know. Like in school when they're like, okay, two truths and a lie. Or like, tell us facts about yourself. It's like...

You know, we can keep you mysterious. By the way, I prepared for that every single time. And then when it comes my turn, I just... I'm done. I'm gone. I'm not there. You have to say your hometown, your and a fun fact well hometown you don't have to give away your home yeah no i'm kidding i mean well i'm from la okay so she's a local i'm a local local gal rare um 28, I think. Damn, sorry. Thanks for that.

I'm just kidding. And can't think of a fun fact. I have no fun facts. I'm sweating. I also have no fun facts. It's already hot in here. It's so hot. And now it's even hotter.

Well, it's great to have you. Nick, what's a fun fact about you? Fun fact about me. Yeah. Yeah, now you're on the spot. Let's see here. Fun fact about me. Has to be fun. Has to be fun. Yep. That's let's see here fun fact about me has to be fun

has to be fun yep that's why it's called fun fact I um I I oh my god

it's hard isn't it he's sweating there's so many he's struggling to find the best no I'm not I'm not that fun no you're fun

well yeah you've done fun you're gonna think of it right after I'm getting on a plane today to go to new york for 36 hours that's a fun fact about you or just in general you're right it's tough he's leaving his pregnant fiance for 36 hours to fly to new york for work i actually do have a go-to fun fact what is it okay i was a pro wrestler for one day oh incredible

yeah that's a great fun fact it's a good go-to it was a complete accident wrestler yeah there was like a small period of time where i was acting and i went on an audition thinking it was like a scripted show for a wrestler and then i got a call back and show up to this big wrestling rink and then they put us in. Is there footage of this? There's a picture. There's a picture? Yeah.

They wanted my storyline to be the small one who keeps getting hurt, but keeps getting back up. Sure. And then I highly considered it, but I couldn't move my neck that night, and then I was like, can't do it. You got injured already on the job? I have a picture. Okay.

I'm going to require you to bring this picture. I'm going to frame this. Oh. Okay. Yeah, you'll see me. I'm like in the middle just and everyone else is huge. I think one of the girls from that round of auditions is now like in the WWE. What would be your wrestling name?

I think it was like Princess Leia. Yeah. Per? I mean, that's iconic. Duh. Yeah. They were like, that's iconic. Duh. Yeah. They were like, this is our storyline for you. Should we refer to Leia as Princess Leia going forward?

Every time. Yeah. Mile three. Princess Leia. That's a great fun fact. That is a great fun fact. I was never a professional wrestler. No, Nick's just going to New York today.

That's a fun fact. I don't know. What is my fun fact? I'm not that fun. You have to think of one for next time. Okay. Okay. Okay. Nobody let him forget.

Apparently, Taylor Swift's cousin is taking all the credit for introducing. All the credit? Well, he's claiming that he helped Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey begin their romantic relationship. How did he do that? It's not even her first cousin. It's her second cousin. So, like, they're not even related. And so, second cousins, that would be like like they have the same great grandparents are you and cole

we're first cousins your first cousins and the second cousins would be like they have the same great grandparents so your first cousins are grandparents your second cousins are great grandparents okay you have the same great i'm Oh my God, I'm confused. Yeah, me too. Anyways, they're not that close. They're not that close. But of course, he's like coming out of the woodworks being like, oh, just to let everyone know. What did he say?

You know, he made a TikTok interview. He made a TikTok interview. I made a love connection between her and Travis Kelsey. What does his second cousin look like? I don't know. His name is Danny Fry III. He didn't go into detail does his second cousin look like? I don't know. His name is Danny Fry III. He didn't go into detail over his second cousin's relationship, but he did spill that he's been going

to a few of Kelsey-Kansas City Chief game alongside Swift. So they are close, maybe. Maybe. Do we have this TikTok? I would love to see what he looks like just so that I can verify that he's actually in the suite with Taylor.

Because there are, you know, some random people in there. Also, why are we just now discovering this? Sounds like a lie. He doesn't seem like a liar. He actually seems like a sweet... This is quite 34 years we've had together.

I don't know if I... Do you know what it might be like to have Taylor Swift as your second cousin? That would be insane. That would be bizarre. Also, you can marry your second cousins. They're not like calm down maybe not maybe in Oklahoma maybe

yeah maybe in Oklahoma I mean like no it's legal in all states to marry your second cousin that's fucking weird though yeah but what are your kids gonna look like or what are their friends

gonna say about them they would be talented she's like oh so I married my second cousin and they're like ew but it's Taylor Swift oh oh I get it

oh yeah um yeah he seems like a sweet guy I married my second cousin. He's like, ew, but it's Taylor Swift. Oh. Oh, I get it. Oh, yeah. Okay, Eric. Yeah. He seems like a sweet guy. Okay. He's also being interviewed here. Oh. So it's not like he made a TikTok.

But how did that get brought up? I don't know. He probably told some... Hmm. Interesting. I mean, I would tell everyone if I was Taylor Swift's second cousin. Yeah. That would be my fun fact.

I just feel like he's been sitting on it for quite some time. Why have you been so quiet? I feel like he seems sweet and nice. I also think he's sweet and nice. I love him. BFFs. So Jason Kelsey allegedly, not confirmed yet per our recording, but allegedly told his teammates in the locker room last night after the Eagles lost to the Tampa Bay Buccaneers that he is retiring after this season at 36 years old, which is 36 for an offensive lineman, 36 for any NFL player is an incredible accomplishment.

So really sad. Is it? Yeah. I think it's great. i think it's great i think it's great but the question is do you think do you think maybe travis will also retire no why no why i think he's got another year in him but why because he just started dating taylor like he can't just already be home all the time now like jesus i think he wants a career in hollywood really you don't think so i think we what we all love about them is that they're two separate individuals thriving in their own spaces.

But I don't. So he can't, like, the second he starts getting serious with Taylor, be like, well, I quit football and now I want to be an actor. I think he wants to be, though. Interesting. You don't? I mean, he's hosted SNL. He's doing all these commercials. Forgetting about the fact that he's dating Taylor Swift, the trajectory he is on has been done before by other NFL football players.

Like who? Terry Bradshaw, most famously. Never heard of him. Yes, you know who Terry Bradshaw is. What has he been in? Cannonball Run. He was in the Matthew McConaughey movie. He played Matthew McConaughey's dad.

Oh, yes. I know who you're talking about. Yeah. I just pictured him and uh what was the movie where he lives with his parents late to flight or something what's it called i see ali's eyes going crazy she's googling matthew mcconaughey movie uh terry bradshaw failure to launch failure to launch late for the flight yeah basically the same thing did you say late it's gonna be to be you today. Close. Knocking some wood. So, yeah, there's been other NFL.

OJ Simpson did it. Yikes. But who else? Maybe recently. Do you think OJ Simpson is dating anyone? Michael Strahan, now a host of ABC Good Morning America. I feel like that was a really good question. What was the

question do you think oj simpson's dating probably yeah really last we saw him was what in vegas on november 7th oj simpson 76 appears frail in las vegas oh no i don't think he's been without the touch of a woman i just feel like that i would be a little scary. Yeah. Wouldn't you? Yeah. Unfortunately, there are thrill seekers out there. And I'm sure he is not without the options of dating. As crazy as that might sound. I guess some people are into that. Do you think he makes people sign an NDA? 100%.

Oh, for sure. 100%. If they want to fuck OJ? I don't know. Maybe. Do you think he confides in any of them the night of? After they sign the NDA? After he signs the NDA.

Yeah. So just so you know. did it uh dark dark but also maybe he lives in florida no no he lives in vegas vegas yeah no i think he lives in florida well you keep purse close no tabs on oj she's actually one of the women we just just will never know. She signed an NDA. I'm like, I think he lives in Florida. I think his address is... Is that after you tried reaching out to set up a date? Moving on. What did Black China say?

Nick was like, how many NDAs have you had to sign? And she goes, my wrist hurts. My wrist hurts. Same. Peacock is launching a new show. They are. It's about throuples. Couple to throuple.

When does that come out? Set at a remote tropical resort, the couples will meet, mingle, and date a group of singles, many of whom are experienced in polyamory. So wait, these couples, are these couples experienced in polyamory, or the couples are not experienced, and they will be dating people who are trying to convince them to have a throuple? It's a mix because it alludes that they might break up on the trip because then it goes and commit as a throuple, go home as they arrive or leave separately. So are some of them coming as throuples?

Yeah, so I think they come on the show and it's like you can mix and match but there's a possibility that you might end up hating each other oh my god so drama drama interesting okay speaking of another reality tv show uh lisa vanderpump shows new shows coming out the one that's shockingly on hulu and not with bravo which i'd love to get an answer as to why from either the bravo slash peacock people i'm speculating that she got a bigger offer and potential that she kind of sees her vanderpump era and bravo kind of ending yeah and anyways that is why leia princess leia actually uh is with us today you heard some interesting tea for the people casting for this show. Yeah. Well, my friend auditioned for the show. She works at Sir.

We won't want to name. No. No. They still work at Sir? Yeah. Yeah. She still works there. But she auditioned for the show.

And one of the questions they asked her was, would you ever cheat on your husband? She has a husband and I think a two-year-old. And she said no. and then never heard anything back so the speculation is that that's why because they are looking for some messy messy morally bankrupt people and as i said debauchery debauchery they're looking for debauchery damn do you think lisa is aware of that question i just i feel like they kind of have to ask that i don't know just because like they're trying to make a good show so they need people who are gonna do crazy shit yeah yeah i guess that's true no i mean it's it's but also who would say i mean i guess someone who like

really wants to get on the show would be like, yeah, no, for sure. Fuck that guy. Yeah. I mean, I'm sure if she had said that, it would have made a great storyline. No, absolutely. If I were creating a reality TV show, it's a question I would ask,

and if someone did say yes... You'd probably immediately cast them. I'd probably cast them. You'd probably cast them and then try to make that a storyline. Like pass it off to the producers and be like, this person is married with a kid and willing to cheat on her husband. It's a tough, yeah.

I mean, to a certain degree, the moral questions come into play too. Does their partner know? And are they okay with their story being exposed yeah did she say she went home and like told her husband that's what they asked yeah she told him and he like laughed about it but my husband has joked to me before he's like if you ever get offered like a a shit ton of money to like be on some show and you have to cheat on me do it like he's joking but not but how much money like don't but also now does he want you actually to cheat or just say that you would whatever gets her the money really like just about the money

it's about yeah do what you gotta do at the end of the day she's getting her bag yeah emotionally cheating and physically cheating maybe are two different things i mean what's the line i guess you're right it's like is it juicy i guess but if i were making things. I mean, it's like, what's the line? I guess you're right. It's like, is it juicy? I guess. But if I were making a TV show, for me, it's only weird. Like my biggest question is at what part did Lisa play in these types of, I mean, I don't know how hands-on she is, but she's hands-on enough. And for someone whose role on these shows is to come across as someone who's always taken the moral high ground? My thought is that the role that she plays is that the casting directors will have these interviews,

and then they'll select the people that they think will make good TV, and then maybe she has final say. And I would guess that my friend did not make it there. Okay. Because of that answer. Did she talk to any of her fellow servers? Yeah, who else? Did she know who did get casted? I don't know. I have to ask her. I also don't know if they were just interviewing everyone who works there or if she sought

out the audition. Yeah, because they definitely could be casting all non-sir people, right? Right. Like maybe she just had a contact because she works there these are people who are allegedly working at her house so in the trailer she goes i found the best of the best that being said knowing that those are the questions the producers are asking it's kind of like well are these the best of the best or just personally selected each of you yeah oh when does this come out at the end of the trailer it just says coming soon okay so not yet never soon you were saying um no i was just saying if you think about the first

season of vanderpump like none of them were married with a kid. That's not going to make good TV unless the person is willing to be messy. Yeah. I mean, a married person whose partner is not on the show in itself doesn't make a ton of sense to have them on the show. If they're in like a very closed relationship where they're going to stay faithful to each other and they have a child together. Right. I mean, as a producer they're like oh so you're married interesting next but would you cheat on your husband no it's like okay you're not this is this show is not for you yeah yeah the the the grounded emotionally stable

faithful partner who's also a mom i don't know that's not good tv no i would um quickly before um we're done with this because i I do have a eyebrow and eyelash appointment that I must get to because I'm trying to look beautiful for labor. I have to tell everyone and you should send me a DM and say, thank you so much because we don't have to go through this. I taught Nick how to use the talk to text. Game changing. Wow.

Yeah. How do I start it again? The little microphone at the bottom, right? Gotcha. And you have to stop it after. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. It'll keep again? The little microphone at the bottom right. Gotcha. And you have to stop it after. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

It'll keep recording you. I've learned the hard way. But. Yes. But you know how we all suffer through his spelling errors and grammar errors and just dyslexia. No more. You're welcome.

Yeah, but now you're going to put me out of a job because all I'm good for is people sending me screenshots saying, what did he mean by this? And me too. Wait, I have an important question. What do we think about voice notes? Love. Okay. Love. Love. be careful sending them because with ai technology is like they could have a voice recording of your

voice and then the really high highly technically proficient people could you know maybe cut that up and make you but honestly with the way technology and ai is already going that's going to be yeah i think you can i think you can already do that they're doing it with also you realize you have multiple seasons of tv online yeah no right and, exactly. And they're doing it with this podcast. I'm just relaying the information. They can find your voice. Yeah. My voice is, yeah, well-documented.

But for everyone else, yeah. No, I love a good voice note. Have you ever sent one by accident? I find myself often recording and then having to exit out and not send to people. With my thumbs. This is how I text probably of course yeah um voice attacks voice attacks well it's a game changer uh we have an amazing episode for you the absolutely generous and lovely allison holker is with us to talk about the passing of her uh husband steven

uh most commonly known as twitch uh He died by suicide about a year ago, very tragically. And Allison has had to pick up the pieces and find ways to move on. Obviously, we talk a lot about life struggles and making the most out of any situation. And obviously, death is the most tragic adversity that any of us could face. And Allison so graciously gave us the opportunity to be her first interview talking about this experience. She has a new children's book coming out that she wrote with Stephen that she is sharing with us and really just kind of talking about how she was able to move forward, you know, raising her kids and keeping the memory of Stephen alive. You know, I wanted Allison to feel as most

comfortable to memorialize Stephen the way that she wanted to. And we're just grateful to have the opportunity to do so. And so we want to thank Allison for sharing her story with us. And I hope you guys enjoy this episode. Obviously, it's an emotional one with her, with the topic that we're talking about, but we very much appreciate her time. And I guess let's get to Allison. But before we do, just a couple, obviously, don't forget to send in those questions at asknickatthevowelfiles.com for all things texting, office hours, mediation, and all of the above. And then don't forget next week, we got the return of The Bachelor. But more importantly, on Tuesday, it's like a reality recap slash going deeper.

We have the one and only Kylie Russell with us from bachelor in paradise to talk about her relationship with aven and him cheating on her multiple times she brought pictures she brought receipts it's a heavy episode but we appreciate kylie sharing her story and then on thursday we have taylor green from southern charm following her reunion, to talk about all the drama that she was involved in this season. Uh, the latest with her and Olivia Shep, Austin, Austin,

JT, all of the above, uh, Taylor comes in and we get to the bottom, uh, of it all. So a lot of great stuff for you that you won't want to miss, but right now it's time for Alison.

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Download the Drizzly app today or go to drizzly.com. That's D-R-I-Z-L-Y.com. Must be 21 years or older, not available in all locations. Again, that's drizzly.com. Or download the Drizzly app today. Allison, welcome. Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.

We're really excited to have you. Obviously, I like to think it's been a long time coming in general, having you on the show. We've always been fans of you here. But you've obviously taken some time over the past year and kind of, you know, dealt with everything that you've had going on in your life and to have the opportunity to, you know, interview you and speak with you and first on your book, which congratulations, that's amazing. But just everything going on in your life, we are obviously honored to have you and appreciate you giving us the opportunity. So thank you very much. No, of course. Thank you. It is. It's been an interesting year. Lots of confusion, conflict,

different kind of, you know, trauma and grief to go through. But it is nice moving into 2024 to have something to kind of give me a moment of hope and like joy and something to really move forward and kind of move me into a new path for myself and for my children too. So it feels nice to kind of be starting this year with something that, you know, is for us, but also to give back to other people as well. Yeah, it's really exciting. Is that your theme for 2024? Almost like, you know, turning a page, maybe pun intended with the book. But, you know, just like you said, obviously, 2023, a very heavy year for you and your family. And, you know, with it being a new year, that's the goal to maybe kind of have spirits be lifted, so to speak. Absolutely. I'm a really big goal writer. I believe in

manifestation. I believe in affirmations. I'm like always believed in that stuff. And I'm pretty diligent about it, even on every full moon, in fact. And so moving into 2024, I made everyone in my family kind of pick three words that would kind of move us through this year. Because for me, 2024 is something that I think we've all been waiting for. My kids included, even at their different ages, like we needed a breath of fresh air. We needed a fresh start, a new beginning. And it feels like it's that time for us. And so for me, my three words were intention, forward, you know, and also motivating because I really want to help other people through this time. I've had a really rough year and I've had to work through so much, But I'm really grateful that I just put myself through

the trenches to really find some growth in myself and through this journey that I really want to take this purpose for whatever reason it was given to me from God to really hopefully help other people through theirs. That's what this book will do. But also beyond that, even just like for my children, like I want us to know that something that happens to you does not define you. You know what I mean? It's really just about how you walk through it. And so we're trying to find our way through it. And it feels like this year is a year to really be like, okay, what did we learn from last

year? Let's not hold on to too much. Let's learn the lessons we got to learn. But let's, let's step into our next chapter. You know? Have you always been like that? I mean, obviously you've been an ultra successful person and that type of kind of mindset helps with that. Has that in any way, you know,

have you adjusted kind of your mindset with the tragedy of losing Steven? Can I ask you, like, do you refer to him more like in your mind, Twitch? You know, he's known to us so much as Twitch, you know, Steven, but like, yeah, how would you like people or myself to us so much as twitch you know steven but like yeah how would you like people or myself to refer to him is it more just the twitch or is it steven how would how do you you guys can reference him however you would prefer um that's actually one of the things he says he fell in love with me for is that um i've always called him steven the first time he ever introduced himself to me he said hey i'm twitch and'm Twitch. And I was like, that's cute. What's your real name?

What's your mama name you? And he said, oh, wow. Like, I've been in L.A. for so long and no one's ever asked me that. And I was like, that's really cool. Well, what's your name? He still hadn't said what his name was. He's like, oh, it's Steven. I'm like, OK, well, I'm going to call you Steven because that's your name.

Thank you for that story. Yeah. And so for me, he was always Steven. So I will reference him as Steven. But, you know, we have people in our lives have always referenced him as Twitch or Steven. And I can definitely accommodate to both. I understand and respect that role he played in both, you know? Yeah.

Well, we'll refer him as Steven. Okay. Yeah. Steven. Yes. But yeah, I guess back to my original question is that that type of mindset of, you know, being willing to face any challenge and look at it and, and despite no matter what it is, even something as tragic as, as death, that ability to after time passes or

whatever time that is to try to, what can we learn? What can we take from this? Because I couldn't agree more. To me, life is about those challenges. You know, Nellie and I talk about that a lot in terms of, especially when, you know, right now Nellie and I are in this season of kind of really gratefulness and gratitude. Like right now we've experienced a lot of highs this past year and we can get very comfortable with that. And we talk, you know, it's just like, we don't know what's around the corner. You know, life at some point is going to make us face something we can't even expect. But you know, when, when that happens, we'll have to come together and we'll have to

get through it and make it work because that is what life is about is, is, you know, facing those unexpected challenges. But it's just inspiring to hear that from you. Even, you know, it's, it's one thing to say that it's another thing to execute on that and actually implement that into your life, especially when that tragedy does happen. I have always said, and I continue to say to people, I am a student of life. We're all just students of life. Anyone that says they know how to do this and they know how to get through it perfectly is lying. Now, there might be more fluent ways of getting through stuff that people encourage, but no one knows what they're doing.

And so for me, even when it comes to parenting, which I know you guys are going to be stepping into, I always am the first to tell my kids, I don't know what I'm doing. But I certainly can give advice from what I've learned from what I've experienced. And if I don't know something, I will look it up and we'll try to figure this out together. But a thousand percent, I'm a student of life. And I feel like from having that, I know that in a weird way, I almost encourage myself from God and universe to have as as many experiences as I can because that's what we all have chosen to do right we all came here to this world to experience as

much life and that you can't just have all the beautiful you can't just have all the good because if you had all those things you wouldn't know you had it yeah the only reason I can look at my life and be so grateful for my children and the things I have and all these beautiful things in front of me is because I've also experienced so much tragedy to be grateful for those things I do have. And so it's like, you can't have one without the other because on the very flip side, the only reason I feel the grief and the trauma and the lows that I have felt from this last year was because I had like the most abundant love. And to that, I am so grateful because there's so many people that will experience life that have never experienced what I've been able to experience. And I had 13 years with this beautiful man, Stephen, who inspired me every single day and gave me so much love and gave my kids so much love

and just taught me so much and truly was and still in my eyes is still so great. And for me, that only makes me see the beauty of love. I don't shy away from it now. Nothing about this experience has made me push away

from the love of life and the gratitude of life. I still wake up every morning and I see the sky and I see the trees and I'm like, gosh, like, this is why we're here. And I think if anything, it's changed that everything has to be so grand and big. You know, I was always like, I want to achieve so many goals and I want to see the world and I want to go places. But now it makes me just realize the little things in front of me. see the world and I want to go places but now it makes me just realize the little things in front of me but really I've asked God and I've asked universe to give me as many experiences as I can and sometimes that comes with a lot of grief as well you know I've had to learn and accept that

you know and at the same time my love for Steven the love that he had for us and still has for us, like he's still I still feel his presence. He's still protecting me. I still feel him. My my kids talk about that as well. And his love that was so great for us is still with us, you know. And so for me, I just try to hold on to that and remember that I'm still going to have dark days. I'm still going to have a lot of lows. There's still so many things in this journey that I still haven't experienced, but it's all about the way

you choose to move through it. It'd be very easy for me. And I've had a lot of people say to me, why don't you just go get crazy? Or why don't you just, you know, cry in a corner for a little bit? Honestly, a lot of people would like to see me crying in a corner, which I've done. A lot of people would like to see me crying in a corner, which I've done. A lot of people would like to see me still there. Why do you think that is? Do you think that's just more? I think it's how people would see themselves if they've gone through it, but they haven't gone through it. And at the end of the day, you don't really want that. Because if I'm there, that means I'm where he was. And no one wants that for each other. We shouldn't want that for each other.

And something that I'm really grateful from God is that even in my lowest lows, which I would attest this to being something that's the lowest you can experience, I've never been that low. And so with that, it only makes me have more empathy for Stephen. Because I don't know what that is like. I don't know that feeling that you had to be in. Sure. But I'm also grateful that I don't know that, you know? But it's interesting that people want to see you still, though,

because you don't want that. That's not something we should want for each other. We should want each other to experience things, but get ourselves out of it as well. Yeah, I suppose on some ways it might make that person, whoever they are, feel almost safer in a way. I think death obviously can be very hard for people to understand and especially if they haven't gone through it. And yeah, if they don't understand why you're handling it a certain way, it could be a scary thing,

you know, almost for them, you know, and they kind of project that onto you, I suppose, when they say stuff like that. Yeah. It's interesting. It's something I really battled this last year. And I've said it to a couple of people is my strength is my strength. It's always since I was a young girl, like my strength has always been my strength. And it's a beautiful thing. Sometimes it's a discouraging thing because you always have to hold yourself up. But I've really been leaning on that and trusting that that is, that is my, that is my skill. Yeah. You know, did you ever feel a pressure, especially early on, um, for the sake of protecting your children, uh, that you couldn't show any grief around them or that you had to, you know, be their rock or, you know, because you

seem to have such a healthy outlook on this tragic experience. And clearly I'm sure you've done a lot of work and you have this kind of, you know, like I said, very healthy mindset, but was there ever pressure and did you ever feel that and allow yourself to grieve? And how did you work through that kind of challenge of being that parent and wanting to be there for your kids but still finding those moments you know to grieve on your own the biggest lesson i had to learn was to be vulnerable in front of my kids that was a thousand percent the lesson i had to learn um because for me as i was like oh be that strong woman be this and like show them the way teach them lessons, teach them the affirmations.

And for the first time, I just wept. I just wept in front of them. And I allowed myself many times to continue to weep for them. And it was their first time seeing that. And it was a big lesson of vulnerability that I had to learn that only, you know, our family has always, always been really close and really strong. But that was a lesson I did have to learn. But I'm sure they also learned that from you, too, to be vulnerable and that it's OK to be vulnerable. Yeah. You know, so I feel like that's also strong itself. it. So it's one of those things where as a parent, like something I've always known, but not in that department until now was I'm always like, oh, you know, teach by example. So I've always attested that to more of like career and dreams where I'm like, I wanted my daughter to see that, you know,

as a single mother, when I just had her that I could move back to L.A. and I could go after my dream and show her that she can do that. But I never really before this moment taught them how to do that with their emotions. And I had never done that as well. So it was like a really big thing for me to learn to be vulnerable in front of them if I wanted to show them and teach them to be vulnerable with me as well. That's great. I always love those stories when parents learn from their own children. You know, I think those are really special moments because, you know, they they first had to learn through you. Yeah. And then they kind of apply what they've learned from you old and she's a wise owl. And I don't know many young girls or kids or teenagers that will say that their mom is their best friend, but she a thousand percent tells people we're best friends. Mommy first, but we're very close.

You know, we've experienced a lot together and we've always just been on each other's sides and champing each other through everything. And we had a moment months after everything happened. We were in our kitchen and we were, for whatever reason, I don't even remember what the memory was that got brought up. I don't even remember. But what I do remember was it was our first laugh. It was months after, it took months before we had that.

And we shared in this like, ow, like wild, wild laughter, just belt laughing or belt laughing. And immediately after we started laughing, we both looked at each other and stopped like almost on a dime. Because then there was almost immediate regret and like and grief from feeling bad about having that laughter. Like, is this OK? And then we just like hugged it out and then we cried and we're like yeah no we can laugh we can do that but going through that genuine like you know emotion with someone else at the same time was something that I'll never forget with her and then we almost had to walk each other through it and convince each other for each other that it was okay yeah just give each other permission almost yeah that it it is okay. And we should, like we should, you know,

share in those memories and laugh and have those moments together. But, you know, with her, I'm just really grateful to have her and champion her through all this and her championing me through it. But she's lovely. And so I fully believe that we can learn more lessons

from our own kids and they can sometimes learn from us. That's incredible. I'm sure you have so many wonderful memories of Stephen. Are there any in particular that you and your children cherish together that, you know, kind of keeps coming up over and over that is either something that organically happens or something that you and your children kind of purposely want to remember these particular moments with Steven that you really cherish? Oh, so many. I mean, I would say the most obvious and easiest, but really true and tried for us is us dancing in our kitchen. It really is like, you know, they're wonderful. I mean, I something I've always enjoyed watching you too. Yeah. Thank you. You know, and the thing is,

we posted it a lot, but it was genuine to us. Like we'd just be walking down the stairs, the kitchen, we'd just be grooving, you know. So for me, just anything movement based and those moments were really special to us. And I am very, very treasured. But even more funny, I'll tell a story. So something that is probably wild, unique, and I hope I don't get in trouble for telling this story. Something that he says is the moment he knew he's gonna marry me it's really wild okay okay it is not a normal story that you're expecting right now so when I was growing up in Utah with

my family there'd always be like homes being built and we'd just like go and look through like no problem like you know whatever we'd all like as the kids you'd be like oh this is gonna be my room if we live here blah blah blah key key it out with my sisters fight over the rooms and the bathrooms whatever and me and steven were on a drive one night well back when we were just dating and there was a house being built. But we're here in L.A. Okay. This is me being very naive. Yeah. It's very naive to L.A. culture. It's a little bit different.

I was like, let's go through the house. He was like, can we do that? I was like, yeah, we can. Of course we can. Of course we can go through this house. So he parks the car. But of course it's like a mansion and it's like fenced off. And I was like, I don't know.

I got you. Just give me like a boost. So he boosts me off and i was like i don't know i got you just give me like a boost so he boosts me over this fence he climbs the fence and i'm like oh like we'll just find a door we start like fiddling with the doors they're locked whatever and then i find one in the back it was unlocked i was like see like this is why by the way this is nighttime it's not daytime oh my god i know i know i know it's wild okay so i was like we just gotta go in everything's fine i did this all the time when i was a kid whatever so we're going through this house and it's like beautiful he really must be in love at this point because he is literally

following you you know a man's in love when he's like yeah i don't whatever she says at one point we triggered the triggered the alarm going into it. So not at first. We were in the house like, oh, this is beautiful, blah, blah, blah. And then we went to a new room and the alarm starts going, lights are going, boom, boom, whatever. And I just took off running. And he said before he even knew it, I was already running up the street.

I'd hopped the fence, blah, blah, blah. I was running. And he was like, I'm going to marry her. You had forgotten all about it. You were gone. He was like, I knew that you were just down for an adventure but then also you'd also make sure

you were going to be taking care of everybody and good and get through it. I thought that was really funny. What happened? Did you guys get away scot-free? We were good. I think it'd be a very different... I don you guys get away scot-free? We were good. Yeah. We were good. I mean, geez,

I think it'd be a very different, I don't know if I'd tell the story or something else. I'd be a little embarrassed to tell that story. I probably should be. Here's the mugshot. No, but it was really fun. Those are great memories.

Yeah. And so it's stuff like that, that we were super childish, super like, you know, mate, whatever. When you're dating, you think,

you know, and you just do fun silly things and but i i think about stuff like that when it was just like something we always brought up like anytime we drove past a house that's being built we're like remember that so yeah but it would be different if something else happened but we were good that's wonderful yeah thank you so much for sharing that story. And then obviously you guys have your book that you wrote together. Yeah. Keep dancing through. Yeah. Can you just tell us a little bit about obviously the book, but when did you and Steven start writing this?

What was your motivation at the time when you started writing it and what does it mean to you now you know a year later a little bit more a little bit more than a year later to to release this and again once again have this wonderful opportunity to memorialize steven truthfully the first time i ever wanted to write a children's book was after i had wesley reading was always something really important to us we always did it every night it was just something we always had fun doing and then from reading stories it kind of turned into this storytelling with each other would be like, oh, you start the story and she'd start the story. We kind of riff back and forth. So way back when Wesley was a kid, I wanted to write a book with her. But then life happens. It gets away from you and all those

things, you know, career starts to happen. You get really busy that that dream kind of, you know, disappeared for a second. And then after we had Zaya, Steve and I were talking one night, we're like, this is a perfect opportunity to really share our story and leave something behind for our kids, right? For them to always look back and, you know, and we always share our kids and our family at that time with social media. And everyone had watched our journeys through, you know, individually as dancers on different dance shows. And then they saw me become a single mom and they saw me and Steven come together and have more kids. And so we had already shared so much of our journey. It just kind of felt like this is the next step. Like,

let's put it to paper, you know, and let the kids be a part of that with us. So we decided just to go for it. So we started writing it together. And really what we decided to do as a starting point for us was just share a day in the life with our family. So really, the book is you just go through a day with our family. And something that we've always done was taught affirmations to our kids and they still do them every single morning on our way to school every single morning with all three of my kids I make them say it every morning and it's I'm strong I'm smart I'm beautiful I'm kind or in Maddox's case I'm handsome um but we've said that I started

with Wesley and then we did it with Maddox now Now we do Isaiah. And it's something that we all look forward to. My kids get excited to say it. And we started having them do it when they were also having lows or if they got into trouble or something happened to them, we'd encourage them to say it with each other. And so we really wanted just to kind of share that story and hopefully get other people to kind of share in the message of teaching their kids affirmations and the importance of it. Because I'm like a really big believer in just instilling self-empowerment into my kids. And so that's really what we wanted to do. And it's so interesting that the universe and God just, you know, was at our side writing this because after everything has unfolded

for us, I've had so many people ask me, well, what are you going to do? What are your kids going to do? Like, what are you guys going to do now? And I'm going to keep dancing through. That's all, that's all I can say. So it's like God in the universe gave me this book and was following our journey to prepare me to be able to say those words for myself and for my kids and then hopefully get, you know, all, all of the people that have followed my journey and his journey and, and our family's journey and just been so supportive of us. It's a way for me to kind of give back to them in the same way, you know? So it's for my children and

it's a testimony to my children of like what our family was and will continue to be but also you know because with disney there were questions of like do we still want the book to come out and truthfully it was like i don't know because you know there was selfishly a part of me that was like no i want to hold on to this just for You know, it's like the last thing we did as a family together. So I'm just going to kind of keep it our little bubble and let the kids have it. But then as I was reading it again and again and again and keep dancing through was the title always. And I was like, this was my purpose from God. He gave me this purpose and he wanted me to not just accept it, but to love it and then move through it, you know, and share it with other people that when people ask me what I'm going to do, I'm going to keep dancing.

I'm going to keep dancing through. My kids are going to keep dancing through. And I want everyone that loved and supported him to know that we all are together and that we can keep dancing through together. Yeah, that's great. As expecting parents, Natalie and I, obviously we have tons of conversations about, well, how are we going to parent here and how are we going to parent there? I think obviously one of the biggest challenges of parents is to have those tough conversations with your kids about things that we want to shield our kids from to never have to experience.

How were you able or how do you continue to have conversations with your kids about mental health and depression and things like that especially with you know some of your children being in an age where i don't know i hope i don't have to have you know maybe those conversations at that young of an age but you know life comes at you fast and and makes you you know deal with things before you want to or expect to. And I get scared and worried about what am I going to say to my daughter if something happens and how do you do that? But how are you able to find that strength and find those words? And what advice would you have to any parents out there who are struggling to find, you know, the right words to talk with

their kids about any real difficult topic that they might have to do? The first thing I would say is each kid's different, right? So I've had to channel, not just because of age, just personality types. I've had to juggle very different personalities and very different kind of conversations so they feel the way they need. They feel seen and heard and also understand what I'm saying to them. So I've had to address it very differently for all three kids. So I think my first advice would be like, look at your kids and see who they are through it. Right. But there is no perfect way through this. There isn't a perfect conversation, but it's just having one. It's just having one with your kids and trusting that. Unfortunately, but fortunately, our kids are a lot wiser than

we give them credit for. And they feel so much. And sometimes people are like, oh, kids are resilient, which yeah, so we're adults, but also some are not. And I think it's paying attention and something that I thought I was really fluent in and understood was communication, but I'm learning so much more about it. And it's just opening that gate and letting them have a space to talk. So sometimes I'll just sit with them for hours and I don't even ask questions. I don't say anything. Just wait for them to feel comfortable in the space to bring up the conversation and hear from them how they feel you know i didn't go to my son max to tell him exactly what happened right away i asked him how he was feeling and what he thought had happened right you know i allowed that space to see where his mind was at where are you with this what's

going on in your space how can i bring some clarity but i need to know where he's at first yeah you know because if i just start telling things i don't know where his mind has been to to understand or to know or what he wants to know or not right you know so i opened up that gate to him really first that's great you know and i just feel like for me, I want my kids, especially from what I'm learning, was that honesty is key. Vulnerability is key. And that we don't have to be perfect humans. None of us are. And if you are having lows or if you're going through something, understanding that everyone's going to love you still the same.

You know, you have to trust in that love. And so I want my kids to understand that. So I just try to be patient with them and they try to be patient with me. And, you know, the first time I asked Maddox, you know, what do you think happened? And he thought daddy went up to space and forgot his helmet you know and so you have to allow a kid because kids are kids yeah yeah and to me that was such a beautiful thought what a beautiful thought from him to look at that because we always talk about the stars and I always say daddy's in the stars which is that's why he thought daddy went to space without his helmet and for me it's beautiful to hear him say that you know and it will adjust it always changes with times but you allow a kid to to express themselves and find their way through it in their own pacing in their own time you know and um so

for us every single night we go out and we talk, we talk to the stars, you know. It's beautiful. It feels like you've created such a safe space in your home and in your life with your kids. And it's really admirable. You know, I really hope we can do the same with ours. Oh, thank you. I am trying, you know, and it's yeah. I mean, as a parent, it's just it's just a learning curve, right? It's just always learning curve. But it's beautiful. I yeah. I mean, as a parent, I, it's just, it's just a learning curve,

right? It's just always learning curve, but it's beautiful. I love being a mommy. I love being a parent. Um, and it is just one of the best things that I would do anything for my children and do anything.

You'll learn that too. It's really fun and it's wild. And, um, I'm excited for you guys. I truly am. Thank you. Yeah.

I appreciate it. With 2024 being a year for optimism and new beginnings, in addition to your book, what are other things about, you know, 2024 that excites you or, you know, what are things that, you know, as you dance through, so to speak, what kind of path do you think it's going to lead you to? what what kind of path do you think it's going to lead you to i'm really excited just because i think my children have and myself have allowed ourselves to feel so much like feel so much and never shied away from all the different levels of everything that this year we're kind of moving forward of like okay we did that and it's still a huge part of us but doesn't define us so like

what do we want next? Who are we now? And I think everyone in my family has just started stepping into new zones and new skill sets and new talents. And for me, I'm starting a new chapter with work. I've now stepped into the role as a judge. So you think you can dance? That's awesome. Yeah, I thank you.

I'm excited. It's I mean, that's my family. It's my life. I started on that show when I was 18 years old. And it's it's a time capsule of my whole life on TV, you know. So I'm back in that zone. And it's lovely. And it's been we already started the auditions and it's been fabulous and wonderful. And, you know, kind of stepping down and passing that torch from being the dancer and choreographer or all-star on that show and now being a judge, being able to facilitate the next generation. Like, I'm really grateful for that. So that's so fun and lovely. And it kind of gets me back to my roots of dance, though, which has been great.

So that's definitely like opening another door of kind of getting me more comfortable with being back on the forefront with work and career and showing my kids that we can get back up on that horse if you would again you know my daughter started beauty school so my daughter's a sophomore at high school she's also in beauty school and she's in driving lessons right now so she's gosh yeah i know she's crazy we have big goals for her we want to open some salons for her and focus on curly hair just if anyone is concerned about that. So that's our big goal.

She's already certified in makeup and hair and she's moving into airbrushing and special effects. Dang. So she does it every day after school and she does it on the weekends. My son Maddox is starting football, which I'm kind of nervous about, but also excited about. And he's doing that for the first time. And my youngest is in gymnastics.

And all these things are new and fresh it was kind of like everyone's starting to feel like a fresh start new things new skill sets and it felt like the right time to really move forward into like you know a new us did steven play sports other than dancing um he like i think started in football for a season and then stopped mints didn't really didn't really vibe with the whole world and culture uh so yeah no because he was always just a dancer he was a dancer and performer um and he did like drama classes so he always wanted to be an actor that was like a big thing for him. So yeah, he was definitely more of the artistic side and only did that. Yeah. Who has been really a major support system for you and your family as you've gone through and worked through this experience?

I have so many. I have so many incredible people around me. Ellen was a huge support system for me and still is like, you know, she just always would have such wise words for me. And I really would say that, you know, outside of me have such wise words for me and i really would say that you know outside of me and some of our dearest friends like she she knew him better than anyone too you know and i don't shy away from thinking that some people know someone more than other it's not a competition like she she knew him you know she spent a lot of time with him so we'd have these

really beautiful conversations about it and him and sharing laughter and grief. But she'd always come through with some like really solid sound like advice for me and for my future and getting through everything and support for my kids. So she's been so lovely. I'm really close with Michelle Turner. She's such an inspiration to me and just such a close friend of mine and just so solid at the, like the outlook that she has on life. And just like, she's like so motivating, like keep going, you've got this,

you know, and never shy away from the truth, never shy away from who you are, but just step into it, you know? And, and then of course, like I have this,

I call them my team and chosen family, but they're like there for me. And they're like, you know, my, my assistants and my nannies and my, you know, they're,

they're with me every single day and they're my champions and I'm their champion. And then I'm also very, very close with the Mosaic Church. Erwin McManus is just so lovely. And Joe Smith and Bex, you know, they are, you know, people I call on and they check in on me and make sure I'm good. So I've been going to the Mosaic Church for almost, I want to say often, like, you know, going in for almost eight years now. So that's a really beautiful community to me. Have you given any thought whatsoever about the possibility of new romance

for yourself in the future? This is such a hot topic for people. I've been asked this and it's interesting because I think the first thing I had to do for myself this last year, a big thing, because it was hard. It was very hard for me to learn to like myself again and to learn to love myself. myself? And then also, could I like someone else again? Could I love someone else again? While I still like in someone and love someone else still. It's a very complex situation I found myself in. You know, I feel like for me, being like the kind of life I like to live and the outlook I have on life, it took me a long time to accept all of those things and those complexities of everything. But at the end of the day, I love life. So would I shy away from it? No. Am I looking for it? I don't know. But I am. I'm just such a lover of life and experience and adventure. And I still find that the world is such

a beautiful place. There's so much to be experienced. So to what kind of capacity, what that looks like i don't know but i'm definitely not shying away from it but i'm not looking for or putting it it's just life to me is life and i just think it's here to be experienced the doors and windows are cracked open a bit maybe so to speak but we're not we're not necessarily looking to fill the room life and love is just something that i i've always believed in. I don't shy away from. But I had to for me through such a big year. I was in you know, I had so many dark spaces I was in that I had to be in for so many different reasons. And I had to work through all these different processes of all these different things. But I have I've worked through and I, you know, we'll see what happens. How did you fall back in love with yourself? It's interesting because it's like, I don't know if I've ever, I was just actually having this talk

with a dear friend of mine and she was like, you need to look yourself in the mirror and say, I love myself. Thank you, Alison Vincent, by the way, Alison Vincent's wonderful. She's like, you need to look yourself in the mirror and just say, I love myself. And I was like, I don't think I've ever done that to this day. Still, I don't think I've ever like I'm big, like in my morning routine. I do my affirmations. I'm doing my makeup and I'm quite literally saying like, I'm strong. I'm smart.

I'm beautiful. I'm kind. I'm happy. I'm healthy. I'm wealthy. I'm I'm love. I'm like, I say all those things rhythmically every morning, but I've never said to myself looking at myself in the mirror, like I love myself.

I've said I am have I deserve and different things after that but she was like you need to say that to yourself and so it's actually something I'm actively working on okay you know yeah and it's not that I ever felt out you know of like you know it's just it's just when you've gone through something so big you just feel so low at times and you really lose like a part of who you are. Yeah. Like is that something you're adding into your kids affirmations now after? Yeah. Yeah. So this is very new. But yeah. So I still have yet to look myself in the mirror like I love myself. But that's what we're working on. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's it's really just an incredible experience what you've gone through on so many levels that, yeah, are you able to continue time giving yourself that grace and letting you yourself know that you do deserve all the happiness in the world,

whether, whatever it is, you know, because you know what you experience. I think a lot of people can struggle with that and feel like, you know, even with, especially with kids like you almost this pressure to suffer almost in the

experience. Well, because you want to go low because you're like, you know, when I say that, it's like it almost feels bad to be happy sometimes. Do you know what I'm saying? Like there was a big part of me that felt bad being happy for the, you know, the first few months after it felt bad smiling. It felt bad.

Like I told you, it took months to be able to laugh. It feels like you have to be in this low almost to truly honor that person. And it's a very complex feeling. Right. And so it takes a lot to get yourself out of that. But then I had to remind myself the beauty of love and the beauty of life that I've always felt. Right. But another thing that I just truly stand behind is that you talk to yourself more than anybody else. We're constantly having inner dialogue with our yourself more than anybody else. We're constantly having inner dialogue with ourself more than anybody else. So you have more than anyone, more than anybody. Yeah. I always say no one lies to you more than you. Yeah. So if I think I'm unlovable or, you

know, or I'm unlikable or I can't like someone or I can't love someone, I'm going to believe those things. Unless I remind myself like, no, I love life. I love this experience. I love to be here. I love these things. I love everything around me. And you need to speak kind words to yourself. So one of the things I say to myself is our words become our reality. Yeah, you start to put that energy out there, what you think in your head.

Yeah. You change that, you know? And so it's like, there's, you can't let someone else's experience change you and define you. And I think it's really hard in those moments to not let that happen, you know? And you really have to pull yourself out. And I think your personal verbiage and dialogue with yourself is key. Is there a conversation that you still have with Steven kind of over and over in your head that you could share with us that like kind of keeps you still connected to him? Because you mentioned so often that he's still with you guys. Is there a particular conversation that kind of you continue to have with him? You know, I was talking to him really actively. I talked to him almost every single night for a really long time it would be about anything and everything it could be

how was the day today yeah or or i would be really upset and yelling at him sometimes there's times i've just screamed and there's times i've been like, I'm picking a school for the kids. What do you think of this school? And then just wait for an answer. And, you know, and so it's all sorts of different kinds of things that we would talk about. I was outside and I was looking at the stars and I said whether it was necessary or not I don't know if it was necessary or needed but I forgave him and I said I hope you found that peace like like like genuinely I really hope he found that peace that he needed and that he felt like he needed you know and that's a really hard thing to do but but I just have so much, you know, that I want. I needed to allow myself to almost be free of that for him and for him. And so we just had this long dialogue and I did. I was like, I forgive you and I hope you have that peace.

And I've got it. I've got the kids. We've got each other. We're going to be okay. That's beautiful. What advice do you have for Nellie and I as we are approaching her due date? Yeah, we're both new parents.

We don't know what to expect. Nellie and I, we've really, which I think is positive, but we've really taken the approach of let's be flexible. We'll figure it out. Let's just be there for each other. And that's kind of been our theme as we kind of have gone through her pregnancy. And as we approach

the delivery date is, hey, let's be prepared, but also let's be flexible. Like, what do you think of that? Do you have any notes for us? And what else can you offer us? Oh my gosh. Okay. The biggest thing I would say going into a labor or parenting for the first time is first up, just do it your own way. Okay. It has been done for quite literally all the time, which is the only reason we're all here. Right. And I think from like TV, film, books, everything, there's kind of this like scary context and

you always see this like really graphic which is true yeah very graphic but there's always this like yeah which can happen right it can be very you know and it's very hard and it can have its hardships and traumas and and you know in itself too um but sometimes it doesn't have to be that story, which is not always talked about. And I always am a believer in mindset. All three of my labors were the best experience. All three of them match my kids' energy. Maddox came out to laughter. We were singing Salt-N-Pepa's Push It.

You were doing it too? Oh yeah, me and my nurses kept coming in the room my doctor my mom steven we were all in there push it we were like singing and then i started laughing because it looked like i had a choir of people singing push it by salt and pepper and then i started laughing my doctor's like laugh again and then he came out we were all laughing that is so you know and so i just for me i'm just like whatever your story is whoever you guys are in it make your story your story you know it doesn't have to look one way doesn't have to look like the other doesn't have to necessarily be this or that

it could go smooth it can go beautifully it can go easy who is all in the room? Because right now it's me and Natalie. Some days her mom's in the room. Some days she's not. As far as I'm concerned, whatever she wants is my answer. like literally right before coming in here. She was a part of all three. Okay. And I originally was like, I just want my doctor and like one nurse, right? Like I'm a little bit like, I just want the crucial people.

And then, you know, with Maddox specifically, I was told that this was a new experience for the nurses of that level. They were like, usually people with their playlists, it's classical music, it's jazz music. And I had like jay-z we were going hard in that room for like because as soon as i got the epidural i was like play that playlist let's go picture like people down the hall being what the fuck is going on in there literally that's what happened and like nurses kept peeking there because we were we were not

to the level of like pushing yeah you know or. But I was like just getting my vibe on and like the epidural takes like a while to kick in. I think it's like an hour. They kind of give you maybe it was like maybe even two. And so that's the time we were just waiting. And so we just had this like crack in playlist going and nurses kept looking in like, can we come in? I was like, yeah. Come on. Come on in.

can we come in? I was like, yeah, come on, come on in. So in that labor instance, there was like, I think like four nurses,

my doctor, Steven and my mother. Okay. And they were all singing and just like, and in front of me, I just saw everyone like, uh, like rocking back and forth. It was the best.

Um, it was great. But so, yeah, so for me, all three, I had a killer playlist, killer playlist.

Good to know. Um um bring your own pillows from home okay i'm very big into like smells and scents like i have like a house scent okay i brought that with me right make that room or are you guys doing it at the hospital yeah yeah make that room feel like you guys because you got to feel comfortable and like no one likes like you don't feel comfortable in a doctor's room no it's like the stark paper plastic stuff and everything's scary and like harsh white terrible lighting

by the way terrible lighting yeah it never looks good it's like the like aggressive overhang I hate that for our photos yeah bring in some like ring lights or something warm the space up sorry we're influencers yeah for sure I get it i you know whatever but i like make the room feel like you and make it feel really comfortable

and do it your own way if you want to bring up like if you're a plant baby girl whatever bring your plants bring a plant like i really do like make the room and space yours and own that space, you know? Okay. That's what I'd say. Okay. Yeah. Thank you for that free advice. That was great.

And I recently learned that I should be massaging my perineum. Perineal? Perineum? I don't know. Both, probably. And for the people who don't know. You're gooch. That was news to me so I know for

if there's ever a next one to rub the wool back Natalie last night was like just so you know I had to massage my perineum my gooch and I don't even know if it's going to do anything but I'm fucking doing it what a dynamic.

The perineum is such a beautiful word. And then it's just so aggressive. She's like, my vagina. I'm like, oh, gotcha. So scary. Yeah. I recently learned that to, you know, lessen your chances of tearing. Oh.

Apparently is what that does. You got to pre-loosen. Yeah. You got to stretch it out and get it ready to go and you know i'm just not really into that i'll be honest i tried and i was like and everyone's like get nick to do it i'm like it's not i don't need first of all like how do you feel about this nick like whatever she needs i'm here to do. That being said, if she is comfortable doing those types of things

on her own, I am more than also happy to support her from afar. Okay. And just kind of keep, you know, that area more on the,

you know. I feel like I'm in the middle just like navigating the space. Sacred side, yeah. How was... How are we doing? You guys are doing great. you're very careful with your

address that was really good truly good you're supportive but also like i'm just here to help yes that's a good answer how is steven through labor was he like i love you and i'm just gonna look at you and we're just gonna or was he like i'm in this come on give me the baby he knew i am a strong cookie so he was just like babe you've got this right you've got this i was like i got you i got you so he's he'd be like pacing in the back all big eye like eyes bulging from his head like pacing back and forth and i was like babe you're good we're chilling yeah he was a big pacer back and forth um and then actually what's interesting is after both of them he was asleep first i think because he was after both of them, he was asleep first.

I think because he was so stressed. So he was asleep. He needed like hour naps after me doing all this. He was so fantastic though and so solid. And like I said, came through with the playlist because that was key. That was key. But yeah, do you know what I did I bounced on the the pilates ball okay I need to get one of those yeah I bounced on the pilates ball and I would just walk a lot of stairs like I'm like a very active person so

I would like walk stairs and I dance I dance even before Zaya my youngest she's four I dance the night before yeah I danced the night before and I think that helped I think that helped I learned dancing I'm like one two and three and four Nick's looking up like routines alright do this

what have you found is helping you though I have been drinking the raspberry leaf tea at night which supposedly just like promotes healthy pregnancy and like an easier delivery um six dates a day apparently i did have to cut them in half squirt peanut butter and then cover them in milk chocolate obviously could you could you have seven you know i don't know it's specifically specifically six okay if you have seven you've gone too far

situation you birth a date at that point so she comes out being like dates yeah her first word you know i just don't i am so unaware of anything and i think that's probably how i need it to be i feel like if I know too much, then I'll just start like overthinking too much. So my my biggest fear is tearing. So that's why I was like, OK, I'm going to try to do this. But like at the end of the day, it's like she's got to come out. So what are you gonna do it really is exactly what you just said though and everything else we've kind of said right like your words become your reality right so even the more you're talking to yourself about a labor if you're psyching yourself out and becoming fearful of it you're kind of creating that complex and it's not to say that things don't happen life happens and things happen and you have to roll with the punches and understand that that's just how life works but at the end of the day, the words matter. So if you're like, oh, we've got this.

I don't know what to expect. And you're just kind of open to it. It just kind of takes you down the path. But like literally we've been doing it forever without the hospitals, without the playlist, which I don't know how they did it before. But, you know, it's true and tried and it's doable and you're going to be great. I saw something that was like pregnancy is nine months because by the end of it, you're like so not scared of giving birth. You're just like, get this baby out of me. Oh, a thousand percent.

Like, that's why. Because in the beginning, I was definitely more scared. And now I'm like, I just want this baby out of me and earth side. And I want to be done. Oh, yes. No, you and you for like, you're like, just now. Now I need it to happen now. It's like, well, if we could just wait a couple of weeks.

I'm like, I don't think so. No, no, no. There is a salad. There is a restaurant that is by Aroma Cafe in Studio City that has a salad and the dressing specifically. It put me into my Braxton Hicks contractions. And then I had labor a couple of days later. And it's like i i will send it to you yeah i don't know what is in this dressing but everyone that goes into labor goes back and signs their name in this book stop

yes and uh yeah i'll i'll connect you with this so if you're if you're like you're ready go have this salad with this specific dressing and it helps put people into labor. Amazing. A couple weeks. A couple weeks. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, okay. They have to go on Nick's schedule here, everyone. I have to fly somewhere in a week

and I'm really nervous about that. I'm going to be gone for like 24 hours. No, no, no. You, you, yeah, yeah, yeah. You're going to try for that because you definitely

want to be there. I would be a nightmare. I'm like, I'm not, I'm very nervous about leaving. How are you feeling about it? Couldn't be more thrilled. Yeah.

I mean, I can't wait to be a father. I've always wanted to be a father. I can't wait. He's like, I can't wait for the sleepless nights. I can't wait to be up all night just changing your diaper. No, I just can't wait to be a dad. And so I'm just excited to experience anything that comes with it. I'm sure I'm going to miss my sleep.

experience anything that comes with it. Yeah. You know, I'm sure I'm going to miss my sleep, but there is a part of me that, like, I've heard all the parenting stories, the good, bad, and ugly. I have 10 siblings. You know, I've been around a lot of kids. You have 10 siblings? Yeah. Look at that slide.

Put that out there. 10? Yeah. So, yeah, there is a part of me that's like, at some point, it'll be four in the morning, and I'll be holding her and she'll be crying. And I'm like, I'm doing it. I'm doing the thing, the thing that, you know, I've heard. So, yeah, there's a part of me that's looking forward to those moments.

I'm sure I'll be tired, but like I'm excited to be a dad and teach her how to make decisions for herself. You know, that's all I really want to do. So I couldn't be more excited. That's lovely. It's great. Well, you have been so generous, you know, sharing your story and in helping people through adversity just by being so vulnerable. It's time for our texting office hours where we have someone call in. They're going through some sort of relationship problem.

Not sure what it is. I always get to be surprised. But are you ready to help someone else out? Sure. All right. Let's do it. It's time for texting office hours. Ladies and gentlemen, what are you doing? What do you mean? I'm making it simple. I'm making the promo. Just keep it simple. Just say, hey, we're the bra bros. Two guys that talk about Bravo. Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls,

we're the bra bro. No. Dude, stop with the voice. Just keep it simple. I've seen promos on TV, dude. This is how you get the fans engaged. This is how you get listeners. We're trying to get listeners here. If we just say, oh, we're two dudes that talk about Bravo, people are going to get tired of it already. We need some oomph.

All right, then fine. Let's try to do it with your voice. Brav Bros. Good job. So, I don't know if anyone has been thinking to themselves, wow, Ali's face has been looking bad. And it has for several months. And I've been very insecure about it.

It's not that I was going with that. I thought, I think you look glowing, but continue. Thank you. So I've been feeling very insecure about my skin for several months. And I was looking at options and really wanting to make a change in what I was doing, which is why I was so thrilled to work with Apostrophe because they provide access to prescription treatments. They provide access to virtual derm consultations and visits, and they connect you with an expert dermatology team.

So I was matched up with a dermatologist, and I was able to kind of tell her everything that I was experiencing, my current insecurities, send pictures over of what I was matched up with a dermatologist and I was able to kind of tell her everything that I was experiencing, my current insecurities, send pictures over of what I was currently experiencing on my face and on my shoulders. And she was able to get back to me with her opinions on everything. And we came up with a treatment plan together that I'm really, really happy with. And I'm already seeing results. Well, get those same amazing results for yourself that Allie has been experienced right now. We have a special offer for our audience. Get your first visit for only $5 at apostrophe.com slash V-I-A-L-L when you use code V-I-A-L-L. That's a savings of $15.

This code is only available for our listeners. Get started. Then use our code V-I-A-L-L to sign up and you'll get your first visit for only $5. Thank you, Apostrophe, for sponsoring this episode. How's it going? Hi, Nick. My name's Emma. I'm 25 years old and my boyfriend of two years ghosted me for three days before ending it

and I'm having issues coming to terms with it. Okay. What are you having more issues with? The fact that he ghosted you for three days or just the fact that he wanted to leave the relationship? I think a little bit of both. I mean, our relationship was very serious. I mean, we dated for two years. We went and we looked at engagement rings. I was planning on moving to his location. So there was all of that. And I think just the ghosting to me just kind of felt disrespectful. I was expecting our relationship to end, I guess, if it was to end with more respect.

I know you're not supposed to talk to your exes, but I always thought we would be the exes where like I could still hit him up in six months because I'm like, oh, did you see, you know, our mutual friends? Why did you put a lot of thought into what your relationship would be like after you guys broke up while you were dating? It's a great point. I guess that's more just the idea behind we had such a good friendship in my eyes that I guess I just assumed that like we would forever have that bond that like if we were to ever end, like he would be someone that like I would always want good for and I do want good for him. But I guess I just thought we had such a tie that, and that was just a thought that came like after the fact, I guess.

Did you guys start out as friends and then cross into having a relationship? Yeah, so we actually knew each other for four years. We met at a bar and just kind of stayed friends. I went on, dated other people, but he kind of was always in the background. And when I knew I was gonna move to the city, he was already in, we kind of reached out and reconnected. And that's kind of when our relationship started. The relationship then became long distance in March, 2023, because he got a

promotion, but I still had a lease at my apartment. So my plan was always like when my lease ends, I will, you know, quit my job, do what I have to do. And I will be out there. Did you ask him why he ghosted you for three days? Like when my lease ends, I will, you know, quit my job, do what I have to do. And I will be out there. Okay. Did you ask him why he ghosted you for three days? I did. And he said he had no excuse. So basically it, you know, talked Monday, talked Tuesday, tried to call Tuesday night, didn't respond, which I'm like, okay, it's late 1030.

My time sent him a Snapchat in the morning. Like we normally do. Tuesday night, didn't respond, which I'm like, okay, it's late, 1030, my time. I sent him a Snapchat in the morning like we normally do. So he opened it, but got no response to it. So I was like, okay, that's interesting. But he'll call me later. I mean, I'm working right now. He's on PTO. He has a work party later tonight.

Like, I will hear from him and nothing. And I was like, I want to hear from him. I am just going to, I will sit back and I know i will hear from him at some point and i never did at what point did you send any kind of like hey are you alive are you okay yeah right there's like where are you yeah so i have his um location so i saw like he was i knew he was alive in that sense. And I truly thought like our relationship communication was so calm in the morning, calm in the evening and a Snapchat. That's kind of what it was just based on our schedule and the time difference. So I was just like, okay, he's on PTO.

He knows I'm working right now. Like we're not aligning in that way. But I did finally text him Saturday night right before. And I said, this isn't okay. You need to call me. This is around five. Got no response. But Saul, his location was changing.

He was home with his family. So I said, okay, maybe he's waiting till the evening. So I tried to call around 1030, no answer. I then sent another text saying, I'm a little confused. I don't understand. You need to reach out to me. Like, I don't little confused. I don't understand. You need to reach out to me. I don't, nothing. I called his best buddy. He didn't answer me, but I then got a call from him four minutes later.

Okay. So you had to call the best friend and he had to be like, dude, call your girl. Yeah. I mean, I'm assuming he said there was no coincidence, but like, there was a four minute time difference like yeah take it as it is but is he denying that yeah he just said like i did not like he did not reach out to me like i was already planning on talking to you like but i know he said he had no excuse but that's fine and maybe that's that is accurate he probably there is no excuse but what is the reason? For breaking up? For not responding to you.

Oh, and for breaking up. Yeah. But he had a reason. It's not a valid excuse, right? You know, you can. Correct. I mean, he had, but the thing is he had no reason. I mean, he was cool, calm, collected on the phone.

He had. Oh, he had a reason he didn't want to tell you. Yeah, probably. I mean, the reasons he gave me for had a reason he didn't want to tell you yeah probably i mean the reasons he gave me for breaking up i thought were valid he thought our lives were going in different directions that distance was hard okay um i think distance can be hard but i think effort is also a thing that needs to be in play and the effort sometimes was a little bit always more on my end than um his with always me kind of in the back end

reminding him like yeah i'm free these weekends if you want to come yeah but there was no reason for the like not hearing from him he just said he didn't know and that he'd been struggling okay i mean friend to friend my advice to you on that is to be honest just let that part go the ghosting you're you're gonna want to know you know and there is probably a reason why he did it but it's not sharing it with you but he's not your boyfriend anymore so that's the important part as sad as it might be the good news is it sounds like after you've reflected a little bit, you don't entirely disagree with the fact that maybe you two shouldn't be together. No, I don't think I necessarily, I guess, disagree. I mean, I think our relationship was beautiful. I had the best time with him,

all this, but I shouldn't say I asked of him, but we did have a conversation a few months back where I said, you know, my plan, I'm happy to move to the city that you're now in with your job, but my plan would always to be move back near my family. I love my family, love being around them. He was always game for it. Like he always knew, you know, we would always move to this place. And I said, you know, I'm willing to compromise and come to you, but I would ask in the future, you know, when we're settling down, having kids, like we can reevaluate. And I said, if you're not thinking that way, you know, my ask is that you just kind of, I guess, relook at everything. Cause in my eyes where someone wants to live is

maybe similar to the idea of if a person wants to have kids or not. No, it's a big deal. It's a potential non-negotiable. But it also, it shows that you did your part after the ghosting, right? Checking in on him, making sure he's okay. But also he really wasn't doing that for you. Because if you really, you know, truly someone really cares, they're going to want to make sure you're safe as well. So that wasn't really being reciprocated, right? Which I'm sure kind of hurt. And you also understand though, you're trying to create distance after being, you know, leaving each other. But at the end of the day, you shouldn't be chasing someone and you shouldn't be chasing

validation or ideas of what they're doing if they're not sharing it with you. But at the end of the day, you should be chasing someone and you should be chasing validation or ideas of what they're doing if they're not sharing it with you. And at the end of the day, sometimes people just do come in for a season of your life. And if you're saying that from your relationship, you feel like you learned something and you had this something special, maybe you can look at it as being a beautiful thing that you had that, but maybe it is time to let it go, especially if it is so long distance. Yeah. What overall can we help you with? I mean, you mentioned you're having a hard time just accepting him ghosting and then the breakup, but is that your goal is to just try to move on? I guess move on and trying to understand,

I mean, our relationship truly had so much love behind it. Like my roommate would always say to me, like the way he, you know, looks at you and acts around you, that's something everyone wants. Like the kind of love you two have and that fun together and that friendship, like that's what, you know, people want. She's like, I hope I have something like that one day. And I just don't get how you can love someone so much and do all that pre-life planning and plan out, you know, an engagement. And there was an engagement date for this year. And, you know, we looked at rings and our families were informed

of all this to then be like, I'm actually out and I'm actually not going to talk to you for a few days and then go. Yeah. I mean, there's no great answer for you other than unfortunately, and I say this with experience, is that people can sometimes say things that certainly might feel like they mean it in the moment, especially when it comes to intense feelings like love or infatuation. And it's fun when you're feeling those intense feelings of love to plan with the people that you are in love with and to make promises. But it doesn't always follow through. And that's something I really struggled with in my 20s when I had relationships that didn't work out, trying to understand the why behind how this could happen. So my hope for you and advice to you is to stop asking yourself the whys about why the relationship ended. It ended because he made the choice to end the relationship. And I say that because you have to really focus on that. That was a choice he made.

And to Allison's point, you want someone who wants to choose you every day. What are your relationship goals for life? Do you want to get married? Yeah, the whole nine yards. Like I know I'm meant to be married with kids and yeah. Yeah, so you're looking for a life partner and that takes a lot, you know? And it takes more than just someone being excited about you and making some promises and telling your families

your plans and things like that. They have to wake up and choose you every day and they have to find ways, even through long distance, to stay connected to you, to work through difficult times, to have you be the person they choose to lean on when they're struggling with whatever it is. And that's not to say they can't have other support systems, but it sounds like your boyfriend,

when he was struggling with those things, you weren't always that person he would go to. He was for you, but it was a bit one-sided. And so I think it sometimes can be really hard to maybe look at your relationship for what it actually was in this time, which I'm sure was special and had really happy memories and, and really great moments that you can cherish. But, you know, feelings do change. And ultimately he chose not to fight for this relationship.

And I think those are the things that's the, why, if you want a, why, you know, and I don't want you spending all this mental energy of the days going forward. Cause I've been in your shoes before and I've exhausted friends and my own mental health why why why why because i didn't want to accept the why i didn't want to

think that someone could say those intimate things to me and then change their mind so what felt so like so flippantly but it does happen you know and i know that's a bit defeating to hear but I do think you can still cherish this relationship learn from it and You know be like i'm still 25 and super young and I know your plans didn't plan out the way you hoped but I still think everything you want for yourself is still very much in play And they say what that there's eight billion people on the planet. Yeah, you're only looking for one. You're only looking for one You know, the right one will come. No, I agree.

And I think like that's what I'm having a hard time coming to terms with, especially since like it was so close to Christmas and like he was at my family's Christmas party and like I gave him his gifts, but I didn't get mine obviously because they were in his state. So like when it came to an end,

I was like, well, then why did you accept the gifts? Like, why did your family buy me gifts? Because like in my eyes, if you've been feeling away for so many months, most people are kind of like, mom, maybe don't put her on the Christmas card. Maybe don't do this. You know, there's naturally taking steps back and I never felt steps back from him. But you have to recognize that and hold him accountable. And by holding accountable, I mean, just like not make excuses for that behavior. You're no longer with him anymore. But, you know, the honest answer is that he was a little weak.

Yeah. He clearly knew what he was. He was clear. He saw this coming much longer than you saw it coming. And he hid that from you because he wasn't entirely sure about his decision. And instead of communicating, hey, babe, I'm struggling. I'm not feeling as connected. I don't know.

You know, that's hard to do. But he hid that. He literally hid that from you. And I don't know what he was doing. I don't know why he ghosted you. I don't know if he was hedging his bet. I don't know if he was like talking to people and kind of feeling things out. A lot of people do that, right? When they anticipate a breakup, they want to test the

waters of the single life. And that doesn't mean he actually stepped out of the relationship or cheated on you. Maybe it was just like him being a little more friendly and going out and kind of feeling more independent. Maybe him ghosting you for three days was getting a sense of what it's like to like not answer your calls on a regular basis. I don't know. There was some version of that, right? So instead of treating you with the respect that you deserve and the relationship that it deserved, he chose to not do that, you know? And so what I'm saying is to help you get over it, you just have to acknowledge that he did that. And it's hard to do because your instinct is to make excuses for him in an effort to cherish what you guys had, you know, because it's hard to let go. instinct is to make excuses for him in an effort to cherish what

you guys had, you know, because it's hard to let go. You almost have to kind of counterintuitively go against your instincts and see him for what he really was in that moment was kind of weak with his decision. And you want somebody who's going to match your energy, someone who is willing to communicate like you're willing to communicate, even through difficult times, ask the questions that sometimes you don't want answers to, but you're still willing to ask them. He's not willing to do that. And you are looking for someone who's willing to do that. Yeah. And I think, I mean, you really probably hit the nail like on the head because when our

relationship was going through struggles, you know, I told him like, my ask is for us to communicate much better. And I had many times because of his promotion where I told him, I was like, Hey, I'm okay carrying us for the past few months, but I would love to get a sweet text. Or I would love for our first 10 minutes of the call, sure, it can be about your work, but I would love for it then to change this. And he would always just take in the information. And I asked him if he's happy and stuff, but he'd be like, yeah, of course. So I'm like, okay, so then we're good. But it was really just me feeding the relationship. You were doing a hundred percent of yours and about 70% of his. And that's what you want to be mindful of going forward, because

you probably have a habit of doing that. You know, you probably are some, you feel sound very organized. You sound very determined, goal orientedoriented. These are all great qualities to have. But sometimes our strengths are our weaknesses at the same time. And in a relationship, I think maybe in your next relationship, think about that. Think about, okay, yeah, I want to communicate this. But in the past, in addition to communicate what I wanted, have I either made excuses for them or kind of help them do the things that I want for me and those things? And you have to be willing to let people show you, you know, how committed they are to the relationship. You weren't letting him show you.

You were kind of kind of doing the, you know, it's like you're the parent who like takes over the science project. Because like, oh, let me just show you how it's done because i mean i honestly think that it seems like there is a level of a relationship of showing what you like and showing how you like to be loved right just like the other person has to show you and tell you how they like to be loved but then at the same time you just need someone that's also willing to try things for you right and at the end of the day it doesn't seem like he was putting in that much effort to at least try from his standpoint of what I like to do to show you I love you, whether you necessarily know that you want it or not. But at the end of the day, you're not really saying anything that he was doing for you on his own regard, which is really important. Right. Like maybe you're not

someone that needs gifts, but he gave you flowers every week. Right. But it might not be a love language for you, but he's trying in his own way. But you haven't really mentioned in any way of the things he was really doing to really contribute to the relationship. Yeah, and that's a big point that a few people have brought up to my attention is that it was always what I was able to do for him

or what people were able to tell me, but no one could really tell me what he did for me. But I didn't know if that was, I guess, like normal. Cause who's going to say like, oh, they do all that. I don't know, but yeah. I think as time moves on and, and you get further and further away from that relationship, I think you will start kind of peeling back, you know, ways in which you kind of ignored your actual needs in the relationship. And my guess is you'll become more and more aware of ways in which this relationship didn't serve you in the way you actually thought it did. And again, you're going to be very resistant to that at first because your instinct is to protect the memory of this relationship as we

all do but uh it's okay for it to end um and then you didn't fail at anything i only said that because i know i felt like a big failure when my relationships ended um as if like i could have done something different and i should have tried harder i should have done this and that made me stick in the relationships because i was like hey by the, I know you don't want to be with me anymore, but I've thought of some things that I could have done differently and blah, blah, blah. And I was, I mean, it was scary how delusional I could make myself, but you just have to be careful not to do that. And you mentioned, oh, well, I thought we'd be the couple who, if they broke up, would do this. Listen, how you feel about him in this moment i i don't know how

you're going to feel about in the future but it'll change right now you just broke up with them your feelings are intense for better or for worse i don't know but like allow yourself allow your feelings for him to change and evolve over time especially as you get further and further away from the relationship so this like disappointment of you're not talking or you're not friends, I get that now. But six months from now, there's a good chance you won't want that and you'll be glad he didn't offer that to you.

I also want to say something that I just learned that I just think is chef's kiss brilliance. Stop checking on the people that you're healing from. So while you're in this process of trying to find a new you without him, allow him to be him and allow you to be you and don't check on it. Yeah. I like that. It's good.

All right. Anything else we can, I mean, was this helpful? It was, I mean, I think it was just like the shock of everything. I mean, I've never been so sad, I guess. No, that's okay. I mean, you can be sad. That's, it's a normal feeling. You have to allow, you know, and I think it's important to say

things like, it's okay that I'm sad. It's all right. It's, you know, I get a sense from you that this breakup has really like affected your self-confidence. Like you feel like you failed. Is that accurate? Or, or like you, that you could have done, or you're,

you're questioning everything you've done in the past several months as if like, had you have done something differently, maybe. Yeah. I mean, I'm definitely been thinking about that, especially from our past conversations the last few months and like what we would talk about and just like wondering, like, could I have asked more, like what he needs or why he isn't sharing? I mean, because

I truly thought we were okay. And then when it, for it to all end and for him to be so calm on the phone and just so almost disconnected. And then for me to want to end the call with love, like I was like, well, thank you, you know, for the way with love like i was like well thank you you know for the way you love me and i always valued this and he kind of just like shut that down and that was like so it's totally taking like what i knew the last two years to be and kind of like turned it on its head yeah well feel free to get angry i went through anger first during christmas and now we're like into the deep sadness yeah okay you will get out of it it doesn't last forever i know it feels like it will the big thing you gotta try to do is stop trying to understand his decision that's deep

you can waste a lot of mental hours on that and you're not going to get any answers that you like that's for sure it's just he chose not to stay connected to you yeah and i've definitely realized i deserve a lot more and i am enough but i'm just not you know enough for him yeah i don't know if you're not enough for him. I don't think it's that. Yeah. It's not that you're not enough. It just might not be the right match. Cause at the end of the day,

he might not be the right match for you. Also, he definitely might regret it someday. You know, they always do. Yeah. Especially if you're the person, especially if you're the person who really put in that effort,

you know, eventually when, you know, that's the shitty part about these things is that the moment he realizes you won't give a fuck you'll you'll feel indifferent yeah you know and you may never know but the what you do have knowing and i say this has been in your shoes too is like you clearly you put in the effort you did the work you tried to make this relationship work and you have the confidence of saying, I got nothing to regret because I tried. And maybe I didn't do it perfectly. And maybe I

didn't say, but I gave this relationship my all. And it doesn't sound like he can honestly say that. He might claim it. He might say it to his friends. But deep down, you both know that you put in the work and he was there a lot of the time. And sometimes when people realize that they, you know, as he starts dating, he may come to find that he misses the effort that he had with you, but nevertheless, that won't be your problem. And hopefully you'll be happily moved on by then. Yes. I hope so too. You will be, it's really a matter of you policing your thoughts and i'll you know allowing yourself to grieve and be sad but kind of over time and i say this with experience just like you got to talk about him less and less with your friends i use i had i would literally

just find new people to exhaust like yeah i gotta tell you what just happened oh you'll never guess but so just, that's something I would say to anyone going through a breakup. I get it. Talk to your girls, do your thing for, you know, it sounds like you maybe have already done that,

but now is the time to focus on what you didn't get, what you've learned, accept it, you know, and, and trips down memory lane of nostalgia about their relationship is just, now's not the time for that. Yeah, no, I agree.

When I was in the anger stage, I went through and deleted everything. I knew I was ahead of myself on that. Great. All right. Well, it's a process. So give yourself some grace, but just keep focusing on the future.

You know, you have a lot to be excited about. You got something, I mean, you're young. I mean, everything's in front of you. So I would focus on that. And all that ambition and that flexibility that you brought to your relationship, don't lose that. You know, don't become, you know, that's something that someone's really gonna appreciate

about you and the right person will do that. So keep that adventurous spirit, that willingness to be flexible and move, like apply that to your single life now. And it's gonna be a lot of fun. Thank you. All right. We'll take care. Thanks. Bye guys. Breakups are hard. Do you ever have a real brutal breakup that you struggled getting through before you found love? Wow. Brutal breakup. Honestly, I've said this before. I'm not close with all my exes but like they also check out like like even through this time of what i just experienced almost all my exes reached out

to me to make sure it's okay like i'm cool i'm cool with all of them that's great yeah so i mean it's not like there's been a lot so there's like the couple um so i'm fortunate for that um but yeah i have good relationships with all of them still well Allison I cannot thank you enough for allowing us the chance to speak with you on this and to share your experiences in the past year and congratulations on your book Keep Dancing Through

when does it come out? oh it came out so it's out now wherever you get your book Amazon probably Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Target. All of the things, all the places. All the places. So check it out.

A great book. We'll be reading it to our daughter. And hopefully everyone listening reads it to their children. You're definitely an inspiration for anyone who's gone through challenging times. And we thank you for being so vulnerable with us. We can't thank you enough for sharing your story with us. And we wish you all the best. Thank you.

I appreciate being here. You guys are lovely. Thanks for coming. Yeah, of course. And thanks for all the advice. I hope it works. Me too. I'm scared.

We're flexible. Yeah, we'll figure it out. Thank you guys for listening. Send in those questions at asknickatthevilefiles.com for all things texting, office hours, Ask Nick, mediation, all of the above. You know the drill. All right. We'll see you back on Monday. Bye.