The Viall Files - E696 GD - Kylee Russell Discusses Aven Cheating & RR: Bachelor Premiere, RHOBH, RHOSLC, and Traitors

Episode Date: January 23, 2024

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Reality Recap Edition! First, the household gets together to talk about the premiere of the Bachelor, our first thoughts on the women this season, and our predictions for Joey! We also talk Housewives and recap Episode 4 of Traitors. Then, we are joined by Kylee Russell to get the exclusive tell-all of what happened between her and Aven following last season of Bachelor in Paradise - we have photos, text receipts, and what’s next for the two of them. Finally, we hear from a Texting Office Hours caller who just ended two messy situationships and is skeptical about finding something drama-free. “Why did you think you wouldn’t get caught?” Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes. To Order Nick’s Book Go To: http://www.viallfiles.com  If you would like to get some texting advice send an email to [e-mail] with “Texting Office Hours” in the subject line! To advertise on the show, contact [e-mail] or visit https://www.advertisecast.com/TheViallFiles  THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Brooklinen - Start the year off right by investing in yourself with Brooklinen’s sleep and self-care essentials. Visit in-store or online at https://www.Brooklinen.com and use code VIALL for $20 off your order of $100 or more. StitchFix - Try today at https://www.StitchFix.com/Viall and you’ll get 25% off when you keep everything in your Fix. Drizly - Is your January looking dry? Download the Drizly app or go to https://www.Drizly.com  Drizly is the go-to app for alcohol delivery. Must be 21+, not available in all locations. OUAI - Give your hair a glow-up with OUAI. Go to https://www.THEOUAI.com and use promo code VIALL for 15% off any product. Manscaped - Get 20% Off and Free Shipping with the code VIALL at https://www.Manscaped.com  Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @kyleeemarie @nnataliejjoy @alison.vandam @dereklanerussell @leahgsilberstein  

you're crazy what's going on everybody welcome back to another exciting episode of the vile files it's a hybrid episode today we uh got your reality recap, obviously, because it's reality recap day, but it's also a going deeper day because the one and only Kylie Russell is with us to share her story about unfortunately being cheated on by her former boyfriend, almost fiance in Paradise Haven. And we've been working so hard here at the Vow Files household trying to get ready for our little baby showing up, which not to give you any dates, but is around the corner.

Truly. That story I posted yesterday when we were at Louis Vuitton, out of control. What do you mean? Oh my God. What does that mean? Everyone looked at it. Everyone is. Oh, control. What do you mean? Oh my God. What does that mean? Everyone looked at it. Everyone is. Oh, everyone's just waiting

for us to have a baby. Yeah, it was wild. Like numbers are through the roof. People are paying attention, baby. She's staying strong in there. So we just been working so hard in the beginning of 2024 because we want to keep delivering

quality, amazing content to you guys all while preparing for, you know, she's like the baby of the household. You know, I don't know. She would be considered the baby of the household. She's going to be the youngest one now. Yeah. Scaling my crown. But our hard work has paid off so much that we have almost an abundance

of interviews to give you all and we're just trying to figure out when it makes the most sense so it made the most sense to share kylie's story uh about being cheated on uh by aven today which is also happy bachelor uh premiere so uh obviously we'll get into a little bachelor. We got some traders to talk about. I think might be my, my Natalie's new favorite show. I'm super into it. You got Beverly Hills housewives to get into homeless or toothless.

I don't know. I'm confused as well as I think we're gonna kick it off in Salt Lake City because layout layers with us. More member of the household, one newer member of the household, also a producer of disrespectfully. She has to leave momentarily to go produce a new episode of Disrespectfully with Katie and Dana, which drops on Wednesdays, by the way.

Be sure to check that out. Tune in. Yeah. Housekeeping notes. We also have this Thursday, Taylor Greene from Southern Charm to go over everything that happened on her season of Southern Charm. All the drama that she's been involved in, whether it's Olivia, Shep, Austin, JT, all of the above.

She was involved in drama for everyone. And then next week, Tuesday, is going to be another RR Going Deeper hybrid. It's our 700th episode. Whoa, crazy. And it's the Toms. As it should be. I never would have thought our 700th episode would have

Tom Sandoval and Tom Schwartz as our guest. But here we are. It just kind of landed that way. It's also going to be the premiere of Vanderpump season 11. All I can say about the Tom episode is you won't want to miss it. Yeah. No, you won't. You won't want to miss it. And I don't even know how I feel about it being our 700th episode because it's i don't even know how to explain it i just don't know how it was one of the most memorable i'll say truly one of the most memorable anyway let's uh let's dive right in salt lake city much better than episode one much better mary made an appearance which really makes all the difference yeah she just She just says anything. She's unfiltered. She's truly unfiltered.

And in her own world, you can't, it's, you never really know what she's going to say or what she's going to, who she's going to talk about. She almost speaks without listening. And I think a good example of like when Andy asked her like a question about like, did you help the season out or whatever? And then Angie was like, I think she helped out. And then Mary goes, why are you talking? This your first season yeah and then andy was like that was a compliment yeah oh my god thank you she wasn't she's so on the defense yeah it's weird because like mary has this whole thing is like i'll say something to your face and i almost kind

of understand mary in a sense because which what mary really doesn't want is to go on Twitter and read someone saying something about her because that feels like it's behind your back rather than into your face. Well, Mary won't I mean, she also will tweet things. She did tweet that she thought Whitney was a racist. That was aggressive. Right. Yeah. And then said it again on this episode. So. And also then Whitney was like, well, do you have like specific. Was there something I said or something I did? And she was like, no, just you are.

You just are. You just are racist. It's in her gut. She thinks. Yeah. Yeah. She's always just hated Whitney, though. Like she has a little line where she calls Whitney the little girl.

And like they repeat it all the time. But why is she Team Monica? I just think mary's anti the other women yeah i think it's because previous seasons she's like i could care less about who they are i'm gonna be anti everybody i don't know yeah yeah like friends with your enemies that's what it is yeah and i'm confused too like what is mary's church it's she's not part of the mormon religion right it's her own religion she's a branch of the Mormon religion, right? It's her own religion? She's a branch of a very staunch form of religion, but it's her own breed,

I guess is a way to say it. Okay. She has her own practice chapter. And she's really upset with Heather for making fun of her Dr. Seuss chairs, but that is the only way to describe them. And she thinks that that was worse than calling Heather inbred, which, I mean.

I think to Mary, it is. Mary's truly in her own world. Mary answers the question like, well, your comment about my house hurt my feelings more than me calling you inbred hurt my feelings. So, yeah, it's worse. It's about her. It's about her. I mean, did you think it was an insult what Heather was saying about her house? No. That's what I thought. She wasn't trying to be her. I mean, did you think it was an insult what Heather was saying about her house? No.

That's what I thought. She wasn't trying to be mean. I mean, she was. She said Mary's house is exactly how you would expect Mary's house to be. That's character. And then Mary took that as an insult for some reason and hates Heather now. Mary's very, obviously, sensitive about what people say about her. I think you were right.

She's just always on the defense like she came on the show and was like immediately defensive everybody was complimenting her and how she's the comedic relief of the show and they missed having her and she was like well i hate all of you yeah yeah and she was and she was she looked noticeably nervous up there like she was almost a little like she looked like her hands were shaking a little bit well the moment that like it kind of switched was when they played that voice recording of what monica said about her she's a dumb bitch and then she was like oh my god i came you could see on her face i came at this all wrong like yeah do we have

empathy for monica after learning more and more about her mom about her mom that whole like if it's not you let it be me i just i believe all of it because obviously we've watched her mother act like uh an insane person but i find it hard to believe anything monica says i feel like she will exaggerate and she will she really wants the like sympathy and attention and i think she'll kind of add flavor to any story to kind of get the extra like yeah it's hard to disagree with that but i do like also her mom sucks so like i don't put it past her and it's tough because like my big thing with monica and i would say the same thing about rachel slash raquel It's not what she did. It's always how she handles what she did or the response to what she did. It's always her leaning in or doubling down. I mean,

she is her mother's daughter. That's the hard part. It's like you have empathy for them because maybe who their parents were. But at some point as an adult, you either have to look in the mirror and say, I don't want to be my mom or I don't want to be my dad or whoever is that person, or you just live in denial. Use that as a way to victimize yourself, but nevertheless, not actually do something about who you've become and then pass on that toxic behavior to your kids or the people around you, all while victimizing yourself. Because in Monica's mom's mind she's she's the victim right like there's no accountability and then it just keeps getting passed down like well it's because of my mom and how i was raised i think in monica's defense she hasn't had a chance to like

deal with what she's done what do you mean so you were saying that like she's similar to raquel because she's not facing what she's done but i feel like she hasn't had that chance on the show monica monica like to tell her side yeah't had that chance on the show. Monica. Monica. Like to tell her side? Yeah. Forget about the show. Look at everything she's doing outside of the show,

on social media, her posts now. She compared herself to Kobe Bryant over the weekend. Like, Kobe Bryant had this, like, iconic quote saying, like, you hate me for this, you hate me for that, but, like, you keep coming back and keep watching me because like you know he's such a grinder kobe bryant you know r.i.p and she like stole the quote from him and then you know kind of used it as like a outline for her quote and again like so she's doubling tripling down she's not showing any remorse she's just like yeah i

fucking did this i got i am a fan i got my way on this show and what about it you know and so it's it is this hard to unless you're unless you relate to monica it is hard to empathize with her and i don't mean relate to monica on a every once in a while have you ever felt like an outsider in a group i mean mean, like, have you made your own bed, shitting it, and still try to make excuses for your behavior? I did feel bad for her, though, when they were going, like, when it was just about their situation for me to trust them or want to be around them or feel safe around them. You know what I'm saying? I can have empathy for Monica and still say that is not someone I want in my circle. Like that is not someone that I feel safe around or would trust.

But like I have empathy for for what she's gone through or her childhood but again like at some point you just have to you can't keep making an excuse and you can't keep being the victim all while you're victimizing other people because of your trauma yeah yeah you know so well karma was her falling down the stairs oh my god true yeah which was hilarious. Do you think she's going to be back on? I mean, everything I'm reading, Salt Lake City, is this, you know, apparently like the mainstays have threatened not to come back if Monica comes back. But it seems unclear whether Monica is back or not.

I'm not a Monica stan, but I think she's coming back. It's like I want her to come back because obviously the show was so good because of her and I would love another like great season. I don't really know where else they would go from here. True. Because they even burned a bridge between her and Mary.

I don't think she burned the bridge. You think Mary's still... Yeah, Mary. Well, I mean, I keep telling you that Mary, Meredith and Whitney all follow her like after the reunion. So I think she has alliances

with like the most powerful of the group, arguably in some sense. I don't feel like that ended really. Isn't Lisa the most powerful? She is, yeah. Unless I said some or one of. I'm not a big fan of Lisa, the character. I don't know as a person,

but like, boy, she always comes hard to the paint. Like she is, she is a quick with, she's hard to argue with. Yeah. She brings it. I don't know. I'm ready for the next episode. I need to get into the reality von Ties of it all.

I need to, this other dramas, I'm over it. The burn book. The burn book. Yeah. The burn book. We'll be talking a lot about it next week.

Yes, we will. Got some guests we can't even tell you about yet. But we'll definitely be talking about it. But we'll be be talking about it yeah that'd be great yeah

alright Leia get out of here yeah I gotta go she has to go produce disrespectfully traitors traitors alright traitors

we're covering episode 4 so if you haven't watched traitors yet this is not spoiler free up until episode 4 so there you go

and by the way it's on Peacock have you guys watched it all I was gonna say I'm not fully caught up but I four. So there you go. And by the way, it's on Peacock. Have you guys watched it all? I was gonna say, I'm not fully caught up, but I've seen the clip of Phaedra coming after the other killers and being like, what you did was dirty. Oh, yeah.

And I think that's insane. I really feel like they've been promoing it heavily on all the other shows I've been watching. And Alan Cumming not only carries the promos, but I think the entire show. I don't think he carries the entire show. He's definitely he is definitely a big part of it. He's very theatrical and dramatic.

And the stuff he says you like want to cringe at, but you're like, but it's kind of good. When he comes on, you pay attention. I will say that he is definitely some he's captivating. And yeah, it's so over the top and theatrical. But that's what I love about the show. It's like, it's like a simulation of what it would be like to be on Hunger Games. They lean in so much to like the murder of it all.

It would be the closest thing to what it would be like to be in a Hunger Games type style. Even like Hunger Games, how like they have all these elaborate costumes and their, you know, the makeup is over the top like with traitors i am wondering i want to find out from cast like you know how like bachelor you know unless you're the the lead you you pay for your own wardrobe you bring your dresses or suits or things like that most reality tv shows are like that but when they had the funeral procession their outfits are elaborate elaborate. All of them. I wonder if there's just like a rack of clothes in each of their rooms.

Maybe. Of just like fabulous. Because it seemed more high end. Like even Peter like had a really nice like black coat. And I'm not saying Peter couldn't style himself like that. But there seemed to be like a through line of a very specific like style. And I wonder because they make so much of like alan cumming outfits and the outfits of it all if there is a bit of a wardrobe budget for them i don't

know for people who don't know what traders is if you haven't gotten on the train of watching traders it's this like the audience knows everything before any of the other. Either the faithful or the. Yeah, there's faithful and there's traitors. And the faithfuls are trying to figure out who the traitors are before they get murdered. Yeah. And then they have a chance to out them, but they have to. They might kill one of their own by trying to kill a traitor.

Right. And that happens potentially. Every time. Every time so far. They haven't figured it out quite yet. But it would be like if you got thrown into this bubble where your life was literally on the line and the only way to survive would be try to like strategize or manipulate your fellow castmates

because at the end of the day, even if you have alliances, everyone dies. And what's so fascinating about the show because you have your big brother people, you have your survivor people, and so they have these like cliques. And then you have alliances everyone dies and what's so fascinating about the show because you know you have your big brother people you have your survivor people and so they have these like clicks and then you have your housewives so the housewives are now like a click and then you have like the gamer click so if you were on survivor or big brother they challenge the challenge like any type of show that is already strategic in nature that's why i think like the bachelor people always a do well and b get forgotten about

because i think the few people who aren't part of the bachelor franchise take for granted just how psychologically fucked up it can be but they're not considered like gaming type strategy type shows and so i think they're often overlooked amongst the peers like the housewives are always a threat because they have a handful of housewives and they get accused of being performative. Like the crossover is so fun for all these different franchises to see how they all interact. And to have Peacock call out the housewives for being theatrical and performative was kind of one of my favorite moments. Yeah. Parvati was like, y'all have a script. And Phaedra's like, honey, we do not have no script.

We live our lives yeah so it was like you could tell all the housewives did not like being outed by the rest of the castmates was it was kind of wild so and then you have your bachelor people well actually it's just peter is the this alone i'm surprised they don't have more bachelor people i wonder like i know they asked if i was available right after special forces i wasn't but i can't't. But Peter can't be the only Bachelor person that they asked. And there's plenty of notable franchise people that I would think they would have asked more than one. But anyways, it would be cool in the future, future seasons to maybe have multiple people

because it is cool to see they have the challenge people. It's wild. But it's just the psychology of the show. It's crazy because think about it. This is how these people would act if their lives were literally on the line, which is kind of fascinating. I'm interested to see how they because I guess Dan and Parvati and Phaedra are the three traitors currently. And Dan went to Parvati and was like, maybe we just throw him a little bone and let him know Phaedra could be a traitor. And it's like, oh, so they can team up against the own traitors and get so is there i don't i is there

one traitor left is that kind of my first time watching i so i didn't see season one so i'm like as we watch through season two i'm still kind of learning yeah it's fun to learn the learn i just want to say this about phaedra and I say this about everyone. If you say to someone, no one likes you or everyone hates you in this particular group, that is such a bully thing to say. I fucking hate it when people say that to like, I guess to bully someone, but to try to,

when they're mad at someone and they're trying to like put them in their place and someone says, as Phaedra said to Parvati, no one likes you here. That is such a cruel thing to say to someone. Everyone thinks you're a traitor. You're like you out yourself as a bully when you say shit like that. It is such a trigger for me. I just think it's such a low thing to say to someone.

Even if you're right, even if you're in a group of eight and all other six people besides you don't like that person that still doesn't mean everyone hates you and it's such a horrible thing to say to someone imagine how that makes someone feel like and maybe maybe no one in the group really likes parvati you know maybe she's not their cup of tea but like doesn't mean everyone hates her it's such a cruel thing to say i kind of hate it well but uh we'll see who they murder we'll see who they murder at the end uh it was kind of fun seeing the whole like because like the last time they murdered a faithful was through poisoning someone so they had to do it in front of everyone else which all the other faithful think there's some strategy behind why

the traitors did what they did but in reality it was because all the traitors were trying to do is not get caught all while killing someone and that really confused all the other faithfuls as to why they did what they did and it's really kind of fun to see everyone panic but i'm really i'm curious how who they're going to kill it's a great show you guys got to start watching it's on peacock uh be sure to check it out because we'll be talking about it a little each and every reality recap do we want to do bachelor or uh housewives i think we go housewives and then finish up with a little bit of bachelor yeah is it homeless not toothless or is it homeless and toothless like who are we it's homeless not toothless okay and what is it about this is a two season long debate just

because it's a good foundation but the name is a little bit like debate just because it's a good foundation, but the name is a little bit like crooked. So essentially, it's like this dentist who does dental work on homeless. So they're homeless, not toothless. That being said, you would think that they'd be not homeless, also not toothless. Wouldn't it be homeless and toothless since they need dental work? Or they're not toothless? No, because the goal is that they might still be homeless, but at least they won't be toothless. that they might still be homeless, but at least they won't be toothless.

But that's basically saying we don't care if they're homeless, but we absolutely do not want them to be toothless. But we do want them to be able to eat a steak. It's a weird thing. And did Dorit come up with this? Is this Dorit's? No, she's partnered with the dentist. I think the dentist came up with it.

Okay, the dentist came up with it. But then it's funny because they call back to Kathy last season when she was like, I've worked with the homeless and the toothless. Everybody was like, what? No, is that the scene where Dorit tells her the title and then Kathy goes, oh, that's fantastic. Or something crazy where it was just totally random. She goes, the what?

The what? Oh, that's great. Charities in LA are such a thing's so we've been to a part of them we actually literally have been to a couple foundations that same hotel same ballroom it's always great because they usually are for great causes but at the same time they're really just events that rich people create so they can dress up and be seen and feel and write off some tax and write off some yeah tax money i mean they make a lot of money for the foundations right yeah allegedly i hope so yeah but the fight between anne marie and sutton crystal calling

her bitch i mean it was like that was a pretty good housewives where do you stand in this bay because you're someone who is a surgical technologist. You're in the medical field. It required years of education. You know a lot about the medical industry. You work with doctors and physicians. But I've never known you to be one of those people who won't shut up about the fact that they're in the medical industry. You know what I'm saying? Because there's a lot of people who are surgical techs or even some nurses. And these are, I don't know anything about the medical field. So props to all of you people who are doing the Lord's work.

But Anne-Marie is that annoying person where it's just like every opportunity she gets to let someone know that she is smarter than them or more educated in a certain field. She's so fucking obnoxious about it. How do you feel about that as someone who, you know, you know what I'm saying, though? Because you never do that. But like, yeah, I mean, I think Anne-Marie is really just.

Yeah, I think she's trying to show the women that she might be smarter than them and that she like actually has a career and she's not just a housewife she you know went to medical school and she did all this stuff she didn't go to medical school she says she did well the who did i sent this in the group chat yes so the asa the american society of anesthesi, all they did was they basically humbled her. They were like, the real housewives know a fate. Anesthesiologists are medical doctors. Title misappropriation has no place in health care. Ooh, child.

So she has like education in the medical field, but she's not a doctor. But she's going around saying she is a doctor. She is saying she's a doctor. She initially said, I'm a doctor to Crystal. And then she came back and said, like, she played semantics. Yeah, she's i'm a doctor to crystal and then she came back and said like she played semantics yeah she's definitely not a doctor she let me just say as someone who dated an anesthesiologist he had to do four years of med school and then he had to do a four-year anesthesiology residency after that yeah she's a crna right yeah so she's certified registered nurse anesthesia anesthetist she can do a lot of things that many anesthesiologists can do. That's close. Not bad.

That's not bad. But she is in fact not a doctor and she has a fraction of the education that anesthesiologists have. And then she clapped back at Crystal, which I think was like a low move. Because then she goes, well, you wanted to be a doctor and you're not.

Kind of a bad episode for Anne-Marie because it was that. She gets outed and then her husband, Marcellus, Marcellus? Who's a football player? Who's being accused of some horrific things.

He had a really awkward episode because he came to homeless, not toothless as well. So that was kind of an awkward moment. And it was also like as soon as Anne-Marie

realized there was going to be some sort of talk, some sort of confrontation. She immediately like told her husband to leave. It was like, you can't be a part of this. You can't watch this or listen to this. It's like it's kind of smart, though. I don't know. I'd kind of I'd kind of want Nick to like if I'm about to throw down with a bitch like Nick can be right there. You know, I don't need to shoot him off to the bar.

I think probably because she knew she was going to say some stuff about her career that maybe wasn't 100% true. And she didn't want a weird look by her. And she didn't want her. Like, Michelle's being like, I don't know, babe. They're not. Like, huh? Maybe. But why would she be that dumb for someone who's trying to sound that smart?

I don't know. She knows this show. Fact checks. It don't know. She knows this show. Fact checks. It is definitely weird. I am on Sutton's side of this, of like, why is she so fucking worried about my esophagus? Like, move on, babe. Who cares? No, ma'am.

Like, it's just it is a weird thing. Also, I think Crystal being like, I Googled it. It says genetics. Like, there's a lot of things about a small esophagus. So, like, I don't really know what Anne-Marie's issue is and then they showed the time table of her actually talking about it for two hours at the

event that was rough she's committed to the bit of the esophagus which is like embarrassing she is committed yeah it's just it's a weird thing to lean into I think she's only leaning into it to just like storyline for no for her to just be like well i am a nurse anesthetist so like i'm smarter than all of you and like this is what i

know i i mean i have someone who's in in somewhere in my family because some people are like that you know i i knew someone who like sold alcohol for a couple years and they refer to themselves as somalia and then another person who like worked in a lab for a couple years because they were a biology major and refer to themselves as a scientist like there's some people who are who do shit like that some people do some people are really like some people in the medical field are really weird about your terminology and what you say or what you do. They're very like strict about it. I remember when I first put certified surgical technologist in my Instagram bio,

the only like really medical thing that was the emoji I could use was a stethoscope. And they were like, surgical technologist, don't use stethoscopes, you bitch, you liar. So I'm like, it's literally literally the only emoji i can find like oh my god sorry like what am i supposed to put there like a syringe with like i mean i don't do that either yeah i mean like yes i can put a hospital you work in a private practice so i just like you

can never win with some of these people says way more about those people than anything else it's just like okay great congratulations You have a great job. You had to get an education for it. You are smart. But I don't give a fuck. I don't care. Like,

whatever. You know? Anne-Marie is kind of... Yeah. I forgot that she was a housewife this season until she... That's the sad part.

She's a full-time housewife. That's crazy. But her only storyline is the esophagus. And it's she... That's the sad part. She's a full-time housewife. That's crazy. But her only storyline is the esophagus. And it's like... She looks like a fool. And then she's got this, you know,

the shit going on with her husband, which, again... I think that's... He's got some really disgusting allegations. I think that's why it's cut a lot.

Yeah. Oh, that might be it, yeah. Her family life, her home life, her scenes, I think a lot of them are cut because of the allegations, her scenes. I think a lot of them are cut because of the allegations against her husband.

Not super into family time at Crystal and Garcelle's houses. No, me either. I mean, I check out. That's when I get on my phone. The only family time I'm into is Kyle. And Dorit. And Dorit, yeah.

Dorit is a little chaotic. Sutton doesn't really have a family life poor thing but she just has an empty fridge and her assistant that she

is like weirdly very aggressive with Sutton's mean I like her yeah no she's just she's on edge this season

that's for sure she is very much on edge yeah why do we think that is stay tuned I don't know T Bachelor Bachelor well That's for sure. She is very much on edge. Yeah. Why do we think that is? Stay tuned. I don't know. T.

Bachelor. Bachelor. Well, Joey's season is finally upon us. I will say I really, really love the intro. Same. We got a little Billie Eilish. They really put some money and they invest it. You don't get to play Billie Eilish on ABC Disney without paying some big bucks. Usually get that generic soundtrack,

but that really set the mood. Their music in general was stepping it up because when he was meeting all the women and they were talking about New Orleans, there was like some instrumental music going on. And it was literally like an instrumental version of when the saints come like marching in. Yeah, but they really that's just generic. But I do think they are taking whoever I believe believe you can correct me if i'm wrong there's like kind of a whole new group of producers for this season uh kind of there there's one there's three main showrunners now one of them has been there since i've been there and there's two newish ones so i think that were a part of last season i think

these two newish ones are like you know what now we're comfortable now let's show you some like creativity that we can bring to the show and I think that they're stepping the game up a little you can tell when they have a lead that they think is more marketable than others oh for sure hello because they clearly

are like they're marketing Joey a lot better and differently than they marketed zach i mean it's the like hannah brown like a little teaser i watch a lot of hallmark um and they had like a teaser for his season as if it was a hallmark movie and it's like this tennis pro is looking for love like blah blah blah and then it's like follow his journey and the 32 women he's dating like they have their own kind of like spoof of it that's cute i think that yeah i do think they are really rooting on the success of golden bachelor and hoping that a lot of people will stick around

and so they're really making joey season as good as i'm really curious what the numbers, the ratings will be for the premiere of Joey season. I'm really curious. I will say this is my Bachelor cherry. How'd it feel? I've seen different episodes here and there, but I've never seen a full season. I didn't realize it was so cinematic in the sense of the opening itself.

I was like, oh, T. He's crying. Why is he crying? You'll find out. This season, they seem to be wanting to us to question whether he is, in fact, an engaged man or in love. They seem to be setting it up as he might leave. Alone, which it really just depends, like in my particular season, I wasn't allowed to say that I was happily engaged. My big storyline was, you know, four times a

charm. Is he actually going to fucking do it? Joey's, I mean, he doesn't have that much of a storyline in terms of... So it's an interesting decision as to why they want us questioning whether he leaves alone. Well, it's because Charity didn't choose him last... Sure, but that happens every...

Yeah, that's... So he's like the underdog is what they're trying to i guess and like the scene that they aired could easily just be from him sending home his runner-up which is super sad usually like even if you like knew you weren't gonna pick them it's just heartbreaking that person like you know like the runner-up has to go through something that no one else has to go through that like going all the way to the last day, only to not be picked, to make someone have to, even for 24 hours, think, am I going to get engaged to this person? Only to not, which ends up being a great thing, but in the moment can feel very humiliating.

And it's a heavy, heavy moment. So there's a good chance that everything we saw in the premiere was just that, you know, him like walking off the stage of the altar rather, because there's always a good, at least should be more, but there's like an hour between when you break up with your runner up until you get, until you get engaged, they'll leave, you'll decompress, you'll go do your ITM to talk about it and try to get in real time. And then you might have like 25 30 minutes for your person to come out so him like leaving the altar isn't necessarily him

leaving you know it was just like oh i just broke up with my run-up that's my guess he just had to pee yeah you probably just had to pee so who is your favorite entrance i can tell you my least favorite yeah and it was it was the sex noises, but tennis grunts, the banana, the choose your banana, like size of his dick. Like,

what are we doing? What did we think about that? Because Joey really went modest. He, he went, he went, he looks awkward though. He went like four or five inch banana.

What would you have done? Would you have been like, yeah, I got a big old dick and grab the biggest one. You would have, would you want to put two together or something? Like what would you, you would you be like yeah i got a big old dick and grab the biggest one you would have would you want to put two together or something like what would you you know like how do you it was more how do you confidently say like no i've actually got a big day no that's the thing you're totally fucked in that department because either you are boasting or you know they really set up joey for failure because like what is he supposed you're absolutely

right i think you should have grabbed the smallest one. Like the one that was like, he didn't, he didn't even like, he was so earnest about it. He's like, uh, we'll just go with this one. You know, he didn't like try to like joke around and confuse the audience. And almost he was like, uh, okay. Yeah, I guess I'm, um. He's like, actually, can I take this back? I'm just going to measure some things real quick. I just want to be honest with you.

What if he grabbed the biggest one and then took like a bite out of it and then like here yeah this is honestly like this missed opportunity our our intro is usually like that cheesy or the conferences yeah yeah yeah they're really done but like the giant bra i'm with you from the limo the giant bra i was like i was glad that they kind of put those all together in a montage. Cause I'm like, I just want it over and done with. The girl who screamed at him, I would have been like, go home. Yeah. What did she say?

Do you want to hear something surprising or something? And he's like, yeah, sure. And she's like. Was she, you know what that was probably? That was a bachelor producer. Who's a big fan of Dumb and Dumber. There's a scene in Dumb and Dumber where they're like, do you want to hear the most obnoxious sound in the world and then jim carrey starts screaming it just sounded

a lot like that i can only imagine that's it was almost identical to that scene and usually the bachelor producers are just like throwing out random ideas are we not allowed to show the canadian flag why did we have to blur it i noticed that too i guess well that doesn't make sense because in other seasons they've had plenty of Canadians on this show. They've made Daniel from Paradise when I was on. He had the Canadian underwear. I don't remember them. There's a couple of them from Ontario too.

I don't remember them blocking it out in previous seasons. It's a good point. But yeah, they have a couple of Canadians. And then the girl who brought him like saved the date to their wedding like there was just a lot of like really forward kind of scary they were in love before they even showed up well it's just like some of them and who was it who said this it was the one who uh jess interrupted oh the blog i think it was taylor taylor yeah when taylor was like he is husband material he is handsome and he is nice it's like and that's that's all material is yeah

yeah they definitely have a lot of like you always get a sense of the lowest of standards on every season of the bachelor because they always talk about The Bachelor as if they are God's gift to women. And then they don't know this guy other than what they've seen on previous seasons. So they always speak in these incredibly generic, high level things that sound like they have the lowest of bars. There was a lot of, which I'm curious to know your take on this and like, if they would have done this to you how you would have felt but there was a lot of like there's so many women here for you and like you're the man of the hour and like you're the one who you just would have felt awkward well i mean i

that they do that that's they do that every season and it's really uncomfortable and weird and me being a more of a cynic than the average person like yeah it was just like you don't know me my in my in my brain i'm thinking it just yeah it puts you a little bit on guard because if you're you know when joey i haven't met joey i haven't talked to him know anything about him seems like a nice guy but i i always say that the leads earnest like they want to find someone like you don't sign up for this shit. You know, you have to be crazy if that's the only reason you're doing it. But if you are like, if you do say yes to being the bachelor, the bachelorette, you're thinking to yourself, well, I hope I actually meet someone. I hope I actually meet someone I like. So they have a lot on the line, the leads. And so they're, they have a limited amount of time

trying to meet these, all these people. Joey now has 32 women, which is a disadvantage for him. Like they always position is like, oh, now you have 32 people to pick from. It's like, great, that it's just more people I have to shift through. Because Joey's attracted to three or four of these women, probably. So it's just more conversations he has to have. So it's harder and harder. And then when you sit down and you start meeting some of these girls who just start gassing you up and you're just like wait i don't like why do you think that about me it sucks it's a it's a really uncomfortable feeling

and and joey seems like a pretty like smart level-headed guy who i think yeah i think the for the average person who who has been out there and who has dated, a lot of the women sound insincere because they think that this is what they're supposed to say and things like that. That's why a girl from Minnesota who had the cochlear implant. Did I say that right? Daisy. Daisy. You could tell she's going to go far just by the way she talked to Joey, where she was just like, I'm just rooting for you. I'm just here to support you when I can.

You could tell when she sat down, she wasn't thinking about what she should say or some bachelor line. She she was able to have a conversation with him. I honestly thought she was at the first impression. She told him to be kind to himself, which I think is such an underrated thing to say to someone. And like we should say that more to people but like her just being like be kind to yourself and i'm like always here rooting for you and cheering you on like so kind so sweet yeah she's gonna make it to the top six just because of that i'm rooting for her i'm excited about this season i think more than anything one i think joey's a good bachelor and i feel like i'm rooting for him and actually find him attractive, which is huge. And two, I feel like after night one,

the first impression Rose could have gone to multiple people. And I also think we have already like multiple villains or really like outspoken, sassy, like somewhat negative people. So we really have a good balance. Who are your potential villains? Jess, obviously.

I wrote in the notes, Maria is my worst nightmare i am somewhat scared that i am maria when i drink too much why i like her why why is she your worst nightmare like just her sitting there with him she's like you were kissing a lot it's like i didn't even want to kiss you like and then like ends up just kissing her i agree jess i think is also going to be an absolute fucking nightmare. Which one's Jess? The one who was like, he's a green flag, kissed him, and was like, we got a little smoochy poo. Oh, her?

She called everything a smoochy poo. She'll be gone week three. Yeah. Maybe. I think she'll blow her wad pretty early. And I also think Lauren accepting the final rose and then walking over and being like, you're really going to do that to me? You give my sister the first one, I get the last one? Like, of course.

She also told her sister, she said, not you getting the first rose. Fuck you. Oh, no, she wasn't fucking around, too. Her sister was like, oh, fuck. She was basically like, I will cut you, bitch. Yeah. That's sisters. That's embarrassing, though.

That's sisters. Like, if I was Joey, I don't think I'd give her the rose after that. I love the fact that the sisters are competing. Because usually it's like, we love each other. It's just like, whoever is happy. Whoever is happy. We want each other. I love the fact that the sisters are competing because usually it's like we love each other and it's just like whoever is happy I love that like they're leaning it's like yeah I love you and you're my best friend but like if you win over me I will stab you in your sleep I kind of love that for this season so I'm rooting for some sister rivalry I think Lexi is his I think Lexi's his top his front runner alexi's top four for sure we've known that like it's just like analyzing it over the years like whoever is the first one

out of the limo that's why i was surprised we had to wait a while to get their one-on-one interaction at the cocktail hour but i'm like yeah she's going places for sure and she's like a golfer and he was like oh my god that's Also, not her being like, I just want you to complete our foursome. And he was like, I like the sound of that. And I was like, I love it. They did show a lot of Maria reaction shots. That tells me she might go far just because at night one with 32 people, like, who do they pan to? She's in a lot of the teaser as well.

And then I think Leia getting the date, the envelope that says she could steal a one-on-one. That was her only move. Pretty, but also like what a terrible, terrible thing to have. Terrible, terrible thing. Imagine. That's not a normal thing for Bachelor, right? First time they've ever done it. So I love the creativity, but it was almost too hard to the pain because that was her only move.

What a nightmare position to be in. And forget about pissing off your peers in the house, right? Because if she would have kept that card, then the Bachelor producers would have made her play that card, so to speak. They wouldn't have had Joey ask her out on a one-on-one on her own. They'd have been like, well, she's got a card. Let her use it. And then she has to figure out where should she use it.

Oh my God. And then, you know what the worst part about that card is? It isn't having one of the women be mad at you. It is choosing the date that Joey potentially could have been really looking forward to Lexi or one of the other women where as The Bachelor, especially if you have a couple of front runners, boy, when you have a chance to have a one-on-one with one of your people where this is the day I actually get to know someone i'm potentially interested that's a big big big day for the lead because a lot of it's just like getting through the days and have her play that card on one of the few women and garrett i promise you that's what the fucking

producers would do maybe maybe not because they do want the they do want the lead to fall in love. So the lead is going to get time with the people they really want to get to know. But to have that potentially play that card with someone where the lead just like mentally checked out

and doesn't want to even hang out with you, it would have been a nightmare, an absolute nightmare. So it was like literally the only thing she did. But I did love the creativity. I was like, wait for that

shopping date, girl. I was like, just wait until you think you're going to get those Louboutins. Right? Because that's the only reason she did but i didn't wait for that shopping date girl i was like just wait until you think you're gonna get those louisville right because that's the only that's the only reason to do it right to know if you're gonna actually be able to get something in return and i love that they had to add the contingency on the card of up until hometowns i'm like can you imagine holding on to it and trying to get a hometown oh shit yeah but how was it i wonder what they would have done. Let's say she got eliminated, like, week two

and had the card. Does that mean... Could she play that card? And save herself? Well, I have one more. I have this card to play. Can I get a last chance time with Joey? Screaming desperate.

A little bit. Yeah. I enjoyed the dramatics of her throwing it in the fire, though. So dramatic. She really leaned into the drama what would you have done would you have felt for her or would you would have been over it what do you mean i mean she was she was trying to get sympathy from all the other women like she she played it she played it well well i think like her cry i think all that was like genuine i feel like i would probably be the same way of just like what the fuck is this like why, why was I handed this? And but I think she was also smartly trying to like appease everyone.

So she's like, I'm so grateful that I have this opportunity to like potentially get a one on one. But also I'm like the fact that this could like take time from other. You know, like she was definitely trying to be delicate about it. And I think she. Yeah, I said I would have ripped it up, too. Well, because that's thrown away. delicate about it and i think she yeah i said i would have ripped it up too well because i've thrown it away what they will do after night one is the first day they go into the mansion they'll all go sit down their itms and they'll all be asked the same question what do you think

of her throwing it in the fire would you have done that would you have been ungrateful like do you think she was ungrateful for doing that they'll figure out like who has thoughts if anyone has a problem with her throwing into the fire they'll they'll find out who that is that they'll figure out like who has thoughts if anyone has a problem with her throwing into the fire they'll they'll find out who that is and they'll try to make something jess already said that she wouldn't have thrown it in the fire she did she made that very known yeah she was like i would have taken it like we know yeah truly and not her trying to interrupt and getting a second time when there's 32 women there was a point point like, so my season had 30 women, which is a lot. And when you have that many, like, I don't know, five, six, seven, up to 10 people get no time with you.

And it's already a long fucking night. But there was a point in the first night and it's all very policed, right? Because it would be so chaotic. Like everyone, you're, you're waiting for your turn. It is a bit organized and they'll be like, all right, you go in, you go interrupt chaotic. You're waiting for your turn. It is a bit organized and they'll be like, all right, you go in, you go interrupt now. All right. Things like that. But there was a point where they just told the women free for all. And it was literally like people coming up to me, grabbing me. I had like six seconds here. Someone else would grab me. Two

women grabbed me at the same time. I was literally getting pulled in multiple directions because they said go ahead like no rules for like five minutes and it was like this chaotic moment where i was literally being grabbed in multiple directions it was an absolute nightmare so i wonder if they actually did that with joey at some point they didn't really even share or that but well and what did you think of her she tried to turn to taylor when they did finally swap and she was like i'm not trying to be that girl and then did you think of her? She tried to turn to Taylor when they did finally swap. And she was like, I'm not trying to be that girl. And then Taylor kind of gave her the cold shoulder. I'm like, I don't know if Taylor needs to like validate your choices when her time was cut short. It also like you were being weird.

You were like standing there so close by. It's like she kind of has to. Do you? Or could you be like, well, that's that's the thing. Like she stayed. She stayed in frame. Well, here's the thing. She clearly was given the opportunity to talk to Joey again. like well that's that's the thing like she stayed she stayed in frame well here's the thing she

clearly was given the opportunity to talk to joey again you know what i'm saying like the who was the woman who was crying at the rose ceremony who had no time evelyn evelyn yeah so like she probably tried to talk to joey multiple times and was probably said we'll get to you we'll get to you not yet we'll get to you like oh it's just a crazy night we'll get oh joey's in an it, we'll get to you. We'll get to you. Not yet. We'll get to you. Like, oh, it's just a crazy night. We'll get, oh, Joey's in an ITM. We'll get to you. We'll get to you. And it just never happened because it just, that's just how it works. Right. And most of the time they will keep people who don't get a shot. Like when I was a bachelor, all the women I didn't get to talk to, I was immediately like, they're all, I'm keeping them all. Cause I'm not going to send home any women I didn't get to talk to, you know, but you don't know that. Right. When you're one of the women,

any women I didn't get to talk to, you know, but you don't know that, right? When you're one of the women. But so Jess, she was like, she was given the opportunity. They definitely said to her, do you want to talk to Joey again? Do you want to do like that? That was cut short. Do you want another chance at Joey? So she was like, yeah, of course. So they're like, okay, well then you have to go interrupt her.

But also did anything, did anything even come out of her talking to Joey? Like, did they talk? Did they kiss? Did anything happen? Or was she just like, I just wanted to come talk to you more so when she but i agree with you my point was she could have said no she could have been like no i had my chance i got to kiss him i don't really want to like i don't want to be that girl but she literally said yeah sure i'll i'll do it so for her saying i don't want to be that girl to whoever she interrupted was bullshit because

she literally said yes to being that girl when given the opportunity and just blamed it on the producers for giving her the opportunity. But plenty of other people in that position would have said, nah, like I had my shot. Like there's a lot of other great women here who haven't talked to her. I'm going to chill. But Jess is clearly not there to make friends. There's always one of them or two of them. Oh, there's really more than one. one anyway that's about it for a bachelor i mean you know i really ain't curious how how well it performs i mean not really much happened i do have a quick question

is it normal for the bachelor to kiss so many women on one night yeah okay usually they kiss it's it's anytime there's an awkward pause they go in for a kiss okay if they don't know what to say they go in for a kiss it's usually If they don't know what to say, they go in for a kiss. It's usually not the lead trying to kiss. Although he, he clearly wanted to kiss sister number two, Lauren or Alison. Cause it's so alarming.

Alison, he did not want to kiss Lauren and he definitely wanted to kiss Alison. Yeah. So probably watching it back. It was even more obvious. Yeah. She's like, I, you know, I'm like, I can't wait to you. Well, it's just it back, it was even more obvious. She's like, you know, I'm like, I can't wait till you make out with me. And he was like, cool. That's the awkward part, yeah.

It's just because they made it such a thing of her being like, I'm the older sister. I have to get the kiss first. I have to get the rose first. So then, of course, they're going to make Allison get the kiss first. Let Allison get the rose first. He definitely seems, I think, what's the younger sister's name? Allison.

Allison. Allison. And the older sister is? Lauren. Lauren. Lauren. Yeah. Allison's going to go farther than Lauren,

but Lauren will probably stick around for comic relief for a while. Cause she is definitely willing to, she's good in the interviews. So we have Lexi. Daisy. Daisy. Yeah, for sure.

I think Autumn is a, is a top, is a contender and then I think she had the red sparkly dress like a little heavier makeup blonde Autumn's top six and I think Jen yeah with the go-karts he really

liked her who's the one with the doll that gave him the doll from he really liked her yeah from New Orleans thank you babe I think she goes far. Anyways. Anyway. Kylie.

Yeah. We'll see how the rest of the season goes. All right. Well, it's time for Kylie. Hold on to your butts. I know you hate when I say that. But we do appreciate Kylie giving us the opportunity to share her story. Obviously, it is one that is a sad, sad story,

especially if you're rooting for her and avon but we do appreciate kylie coming in and being so vulnerable with her story and sharing it with us again we are back on thursday with uh taylor green from southern charm and then next week episode number 700 with tom and tom from vanderp Rules. And then on Thursdays, Going Deeper, a very special surprise. It's a surprise for episode 701. Can't tell you yet because we want to make sure they show up. All right. Well, Kylie, everybody.

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That's D-R-I-Z-L-Y.com. Must be 21 years or older, not available in all locations. Again, that's drizzly.com or the Drizzly app today. Kylie. Hi, Nick. Welcome to the Vile Files. Thank you. I see this platform to be very iconic. Kind of, period. Yeah. Me too. We appreciate you saying that. So it's something I've always wanted to do. Definitely not in this circumstance, but I'm freaking out a little inside because I'm excited,

nervous, all the things. We are very excited to have you. Likewise with you. We're very sorry it had to come under these circumstances. But that being said, this show has become a place for people to share their story, especially when their story involves something like what you went through, which is the infidelity of Mr. Avon following your engagement. Did you get engaged or not engaged? That's still a sore subject. I, in fact, did not get engaged. That's right.

Oh, okay. You had to... It's fine. Everything's fine. Yeah, no. I, in fact, did not get engaged. That's right. You, that's, oh, okay. You had to. Right, right, right. It's fine. Everything's fine. You had to convince him. Yeah, no. I had to beg a man.

That's embarrassing. Where would you like to start, Kylie? Honestly, Nick, my life has been, it started out in shambles. Your life? Well, in December 9th. December 9th. As soon as I was born. No, no, no.

Starting December 9th. Her mom's in the room, by the way. Hi, mom. No, I promise you've given me a perfect life. December 9th is when things started kind of going downhill. And my life definitely took a turn that I was not expecting whatsoever. And so I've had to kind of recollect, regroup. And I've just been on go mode, I would say, ever since then. so i don't really know where to begin but maybe let's just start at the beginning of you and avon yeah bachelor in paradise is notorious for having relationships start prior to the at the time in which they actually appear to start which is on the beach it's not a big secret anymore and quite honestly i kind of appreciated the franchise i think it was this season, but almost kind of leaned into the idea that like, these aren't the first time these people are meeting, you know, there's events and Instagram and everyone is like reaching out.

They're attracted to certain types of people. Everyone's trying to feel it out, kind of make connections. It happens every season. Is that something that happened with you and Avon? So Bible, I'm here to set the record straight. Avon and I never met prior to walking on the beach. That second day I was there, that was the first time we were face to face in the same place. Did you communicate on Instagram? No. So I saw him on Rachel and Gabby season and I had an instant attraction to him. He's hot. Yeah.

He is a good looking man. Unfortunately, it would make it a lot easier if he wasn't. And going through the process of going to The Bachelor, they always ask me during the interview process, Kylie, who do you want to see there? And my first name, it was always Avon. Always Avon. And then literally two days prior to leaving, I find out it's Zach. I'm a little disappointed, but I'm like, it's okay. okay I'm gonna put my best foot forward I mean who knows you didn't meet yeah maybe you would have yeah it was just like a hypothetical situation

in my head that I felt like we would potentially like vibe together but I wasn't sure this was solely based off of attraction and then I'll never forget the night of the premiere of my Bachelor season, Avon had liked my promo picture on Instagram. And I was literally in my apartment and may have screamed just a little bit. It was like he had just asked me to be his girlfriend. Like I was so excited. I know it's the little things. I should have better standards than that. But I was just excited that I guess. Yeah, I was like, someone like him noticed me. Oh my God. And so it kind of just trickled from there. He, I had like some back, it was that back and forth, you know, the Instagram games of our generation. Which are for the people who don't

know. So if someone likes your picture, that could be a telltale sign that they think you're cute. They find you attractive and they may want to slide in the dms um so but you have to show interest back to them so that's why i didn't want to like too many pictures because i didn't want to look crazy and stalkerish so i think i like two and they can't be too old i was um i gave it like i think i'll wait until the next day i was like we can't look too eager like we gotta keep this man on his toes and also too with the game like you can't like too many pictures they can't be too like old you have to do it perfectly there's a science behind it yeah absolutely like you have to think through this and so I think I like two and then it was just that constant back and forth and I was like

well obviously he's not gonna make his move so what can I do to like either make him follow me or make him slide? And so what I did is I put him on my close friends. But what's crazy about it? That's a move. Yeah. But what's crazy about this? Hey, we're close. Yeah.

I didn't follow him. Oh. So whenever he would watch my stories, that meant he typed my name into his phone. He's looking. He's hanging out on your page it's like he's sitting on your front porch literally like this man did not miss either i would post one and literally two seconds later even the notifications were on yeah and so i was like okay he's obsessed with me yeah basically and so i was like i got this man like he likes me

he obviously finds me attractive so let's see how it can go from here. But he never DM'd me. We had played this like Instagram game since January. And then in May, I believe that's when he just like started to follow me. And I was like, okay, this is interesting. This is kind of weird, but if that's how you want to play it, you can play that game. I followed him back. And I think literally right before Paradise, I had posted like a fire picture on my close friends. And I'm like, if this doesn't do it to him, nothing will. And so that was your, like your, this is what you're about to deal with. Yeah. And what the crazy thing was too, it was a picture I had taken like weeks prior and I was laying in bed, like looked nothing like that picture. And I was bored and I was like, let me see if I can get this man. So I posted it and it looked like I was about to go out on the

town, like living my best life. And literally I was in bed and he had sent the ever so famous fire emoji. And once again, I died a little. You were basically engaged. I was like, okay, yeah. Like if he's in paradise, like it's going to be a match made in heaven. And so that was right before I left. I tried to do, like, all of these simple things, even on the plane to Mexico. I posted a picture of my close friend saying, like, here goes nothing, expecting him to swipe up, saying, like, see you there. Silence. So in my mind, I was like, okay, obviously he's interested, but he could be doing this with a million other girls.

Well, that was my next question. I was actually curious. Do you ladies in Bachelor Nation compare notes or swap stories or figure out who is DMing who? Like, how does that all work? So we definitely talk. We have a group chat. I'm close to a lot of the ladies from my season. I don't know really any of the women outside of Zach's season.

But in talking with him, everyone knew, obviously, I was going down on the beach and I was interested in Avon. He had not done that or reached out to anyone else from my knowing. So that gave me some confidence. But like I said,

it was weird that he had done all these things but not reached out. And I'm a very prideful woman, so I would never slide into someone's DMs first. Just not me. Did you respond to the fire or did you like double tap? Oh, I had him with a double tap.

A double tap. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I was like, at the end of the day. It doesn't deserve a response. Yeah. What do I say back to this? Like, hey, like, what are you doing? Like, no, I'm not going to do too much.

So it was just the double tap. If you don't have enough energy to type out something to me, like you're just going to do the automated emoji. You're not getting a response. Oh, absolutely not just going to do the automated emoji. Right. You're not getting a response. Oh, absolutely not. You'll get a double tap. Yeah, because even in my brain too, I was like, okay, sometimes you swipe up

and you accidentally send things. So I'm like, was this by accident? Or, you know, Definitely wasn't by accident. Yeah, it wasn't by accident. It wasn't by accident. But just like all the scenarios were going through my brain.

But like I said, I have too much, I'm not saying it's a bad thing. I'm all for the confidence of a woman being able to slide into someone's DMs. But it's just not me. I fear rejection a little bit. So if it were a situation where I said something and he didn't respond, I would have had to move out of the universe, basically. Pack your bags. Yeah.

So it's time to go. Yeah. So I was just like, you know, we're going to see how this plays out on the beach. Okay. Okay. You get to the beach. We all got to watch. Is there anything we didn't get to see?

Because obviously they don't get to show everything. And you got there first, right? You got there before Avon? I did. So I was there first day and then he showed up the second day. Okay. I think I might even give you some shit when we were recapping it. I know.

I was scared to watch because I know you probably did. I don't know. It's fine. It wasn't personal. We can still be friends. Great. But I do remember you were kind of playing a little bit musical chairs, which is kind of part of the game.

Right. On Bachelor Nation. But what would you say was your approach, you know, as someone who got to the beach before the person you had your eyes on was there? Were you open to maybe meeting other men or were you just like, I don't know, trying to like survive until Avon showed up? Right. So I was definitely open. In my mind, I had a feeling that he potentially would be there, but I wasn't 100% sure. So I was like, I'm not going to ruin my own experience waiting for a hypothetical of a man.

Okay. So at that point, you guys never actually talked. It was a lot of gamesmanship, liking, double taps, fire emojis, close friends. But you two not only never met, but you never actually spoke. Right. A lot of people don't believe that just because I know with the way the show portrayed it, it looked like I was kind of a crazy stalker girl and was obsessed with him. And people were coming at me like, how are you so obsessed with someone

that you've never met before? And I was like, it was more so the idea of what could be. You had a crush. Yeah, like, you know, it was almost kind of like, in my brain, I was watching The Bachelorette.

I had never thought I would ever find myself in a position to ever be on The Bachelor when watching him. So it was almost like he was a celebrity. I was just about to say that. You know, that is the thing. If for until you're on the show and if you're a fan of the show and you watch it, you know, the people you're watching are a little bit of celebrity. When I remember rolling up in the limo night one, seeing Andy Dorfman there and kind of thinking like, oh, my God, that's Andy Dorfman. You know, it's like a little bit of like, oh, shit, I saw you on TV.

So, yeah, I assume talking to Avin was very much like when he, you know, fire emoji or liked your stuff. It probably felt like a kind of a celebrity was sliding in and liking your pics. Absolutely. Yeah. And so when I got there the first day and he wasn't there, I obviously was disappointed, but I was like, like I said, I wasn't going to ruin my opportunity and my chance there to find someone real because I was waiting on the potential of someone that could be completely opposite of what had built him up to be in my brain. So the first day I actually got the first date card as well. And so they were definitely playing a little trick on me, some games, you know how they love to do. Well, yeah, it's one of, I'm curious, how transparent with the cast were you about

your interest in Avon? So I think all of my friends, I was really close to Jess, Mercedes and Kat. They knew going into it that like Avon was my guy in a sense. And so when I got down there, I got the date card. I had like a long talk with Mercedes and I was like, okay, what do you think I should do? Who do you think I should go on this date with? And that's when I chose Will just because I didn't have that many conversations with a lot of men on the beach. I mean, we were there for like a couple hours and then I was thrown into a date scenario. And Will, I had really connected to him immediately. So I was excited to go on the date and I think that bled through when I was on TV when I was on the date with Will he fell in the water that was something to take the

edge off but I really did enjoy my time there with him well and it makes more sense now hearing it from you because you're right it did it came across from what we know about paradise in general in the history of the show and how people meet and just how vocal you were you know in your like itms and just talking to the audience that you were like already like team aven you came across early on as maybe a bit disingenuous when it came to going on dates with other people but this makes a lot more sense yeah absolutely i mean. I mean, I fully understand why it could have been portrayed that way. But at the end of the day, like I and my bachelor season, I never got like a one-on-one date. And here I was presented with the opportunity to go on the first one-on-one. So what was I going to say? Oh, nope, I'm not going to take this date. I'm

waiting on Avon. That just wouldn't be realistic. And that would be doing myself a disservice. So Avon shows up. We got to watch that. I guess anything you want to speak to about your time on Paradise with Avon, more specifically about like, you know, adding any context where maybe you felt like people got the wrong impression about any interaction with you and Avon at the beach or just your time as you got to know him? After our first date, we became pretty established couple. Things just kind of hit off immediately. We connected on a different level more so than I say I did with Will on my first date with him. And so that's when I immediately kind of decided to go with Avon. And from that second day to the very end, it was always just us. And I think because when it comes to TV, it's going to

be really boring to watch a couple just sit on a daybed and talk about life and kiss and be romantic. Like you want to see the drama. And we had a lot of drama this season. So Ava and I really weren't shown that much, which I was completely OK with it. I'd much rather have come out of that process with an established, deep connection than get a crap ton of camera time. Like that just wasn't important to me. Yeah. You're right. The healthiest relationships usually get the least amount of airtime just because that's not that fun to watch people snuggle.

Right. Yeah. So I think there were a few of our conversations that were shown. And unfortunately for us, they were a lot of just like surface level conversations and I will say watching it back I even kind of got mad at him because in our conversations there looked like a disconnect between us it looked like me doing a lot of the talking and him just kind of like laying there agreeing so in the public eye I could see where they thought well he doesn't look that into her or they're really boring. Get them off of my TV. I don't like them. So feel that way in the moment that he wasn't as

connected as you were or did you only realize that once you were able to step out and watch it back? I would say in the beginning, I do remember there was a time I was in the bathroom literally crying to some of my friends saying, I just feel like I'm way more into him than he is me. It was almost like he was there for a vacation with his friends. He was spending more time with the guys than he was with me. But that was only in the beginning. As the weeks progressed and our relationship became stronger, I could tell he was all in on me. But definitely in the beginning, I was like, okay, I feel like i'm doing myself a disservice by staying with him because he doesn't seem that invested gotcha i know mom's in the room

but did you guys hook up apparently we did not go into the boom boom room did anyone like i feel like they're like has the boomer room even been used is there is there cobwebs all over it like so i guess we're just really boring or like not a lot of us had like sexual chemistry. I don't really know. But yeah, there are cobwebs in the boom boom room because it wasn't used, which was kind of confusing because I feel like in years past, like at least one couple. It was like there was like a sign up list. Yeah.

My mom most likely would have disowned me as her child. So to save my face within my family, it was a good thing that I didn't go. Okay. All right. Do you, like looking back, watching it and, you know, obviously getting to the end of Paradise where you kind of famously were begging a event for some sort of long lasting commitment. Do you have any regrets about that or watching it back? You know, I guess maybe more specifically, what made you so convinced that

you two were ready for a serious relationship? Would you have said yes to an engagement had he asked? Like, how did you get there? And do you, you know, think of it differently now that you have removed yourself from that kind of intense bubble? Right. So I think for me and my friend group, especially, I don't really want to speak for a lot of people, but we came down there with the actual intention of as cliche as it sounds to find love. I wouldn't say I'm necessarily one of the favorites of Bachelor Nation. So I know going down there, I wasn't going to be like a fan favorite. I was going to get all these followers and this clout from it. So I was like, at the end of the day, that's not really important to me

because it's most likely not going to come. So I was like, I just really want to find someone and to leave in a strong relationship. And so one of the first questions I asked Avon on our first date was, I saw you and Rachel's ending and how you weren't ready for something like that. Do you think it was just her in the situation or do you think it's actually something that you're never going to be able to get to, a place you'll be able to get to and he told me he was like kylie like that's a big deal to me but if it's the right person in the right timing i'll do it and then a little vague but then it gets better so we are continuing to have more conversations as the show plays out and he's talking to me about his experience with Rachel and he point blank

told me there he was like honestly I was ready to get down on one knee for her there but the only reason why he didn't do it was because he knew that it was at the end of the day she was picking Tino so he didn't want to show up the day of engagements get down on one knee and get rejected, which I understand. But you're telling me that and then you're so convinced and so stand strong about not getting engaged to me. I'm just like, okay, that definitely made me feel some type of way. And then we were talking about he was interviewed for The Bachelor and they asked him, if we were to pick you, would you get engaged? Like, we know how you ended your season.

Would you do this? And he was like, yeah, I'll absolutely do it. Like, I want to get engaged. And so that definitely, that wrecked me. I'm not here to defend Avon. Yeah, no. But as someone who's gone through that journey before, the Bachelor bubble is very different than the Paradise bubble. That's what he said. I get why is very different than the paradise bubble.

That's what he said. I get why it felt a certain way towards you. And the person I was on paradise with had a very similar reaction. What I went through on the bachelorette was just so intense that paradise to me was child's play. I don't know. It was just like, it was not the same, you know? And so when you're in like the top three and you're going through this kind of emotional rollercoaster and you're, you know, eight, nine weeks in and you're like, you haven't talked to your family and you're just like thinking, can I engage with this person? And you're like, I really have these strong feelings. You're trying to process all these mixed emotions, going to paradise and hanging out with your friends. You don't feel the intensity of that environment and because i remember going

to paradise and again you're with a whole mix of different basher people people who have gone as far as you people who have were there night one you know and so it was weird for me to watch people on paradise kind of respond to paradise on all these different ways so i'm just here to say i can i i can understand where avan was coming from on that particular stance i don't love that nick i apologize no no fuck avan like honestly he's a cheating motherfucker you know but i'm just i don't know if that helps or hurts no no i no i get that i get that point of view but for me too you have so many more intimate moments in paradise you're basically there together non-stop 24 7 and i know there's a even though you're there for a longer period on the bachelor and bachelorette

the time with the lead is so limited what i agree with you is i think the connections made in paradise are are more real right because you're actually spending real time where i think the connections in bachelor world bacheloretorette, bachelor are very much harder to trust because as I always said, it's actually a relationship that's built on withholding love because you make a connection, they pull you away. And so you spend most of your time on the bachelorette or bachelor thinking about your relationship rather than being in your relationship. So your idea of this connection is mostly in your head. Where in paradise, you're right. You're, you're spending 10, 12 hours a day all day long with your person. And you're actually, you get to talk about whatever the fuck you want. And it's,

it's truly, truly incredible. So yeah, I think that's why paradise has a better success rate because those connections are actually more valid and people who fall in love and bachelor, it's a little bit more of a roll of the dice. Cause I think a lot of people like in my case, you realize we're not compatible, you know, you know, yeah, there was a connection. Maybe there was love there, but what we thought, what we had wasn't as real as we had hoped, you know? And I think in paradise, it's a little different. Well, I do appreciate that perspective because I will say when he was telling me all of those things, it definitely made me overthink and rethink our connection because I'm like, if you could get there for other people, why can't you get there for me?

And we're spending the most time together. Right. So but now that I'm seeing it from that perspective and I kind of hearing out what you're saying, I get it. Did it feel good that he was saying those things to me there? Absolutely not. And two, a lot of our conversations that were shown were strictly about like us talking about engagement and me being like giving him an ultimatum in a sense. But in my defense, I will say there were other conversations where he was giving me false hope in regards to the engagement. would be like okay well i'm thinking about it and i really do think i can get there with you just give me some time and then the next day he would come and he would be like not no but hell

no well he wouldn't say exactly but that's how it felt that's how it felt yeah and i was just like whoa so it was just like the switch up that had me so confused and had me so emotional and two more so it wasn't necessarily i know it came across that I was just wanting the Neil Lane diamond and the engagement on television. It was more so the commitment that I was wanting. Also, even if that were true, why wouldn't you want that? No, I mean, you are, you put yourself in that situation knowing that that could happen. situation knowing that that could happen. That's why you're going. If you're going to say yes to your point of going to the bachelor or going to bachelor in paradise, you, as you should, fantasize about what it might be like to meet Neil Lang, to wear a Neil Lang diamond, to get engaged. It definitely is a fantasy. That's why you go, you know, anyone saying otherwise is just

lying. Yeah, I agree. And I will say for him too, he knew both times that he was, when he was going there, what the end result looked like yeah and so it was kind of crazy how he wasn't prepared the first time but then he had a redo and he still couldn't find himself in a place to get there i don't know it definitely was the commitment issue too and we were doing long distance as well so i knew i was going back to charlotte he was going back to san diego And I felt as though the commitment of an engagement would push us even more as a couple to work through the hardships more so than just being boyfriend, girlfriend. Totally valid. I actually said something

identical when I was the bachelor. You did? Yeah. Two great minds think alike. Well, because you're right, because you're there, you're taking this risk. Everyone knows who makes a connection in bachelor world. You're not delusional. I wasn't delusional, but you're taking this risk. Everyone knows who makes a connection in Bachelor World. Like you're not delusional. I wasn't delusional, but you're like, hey, I feel this thing. I don't know what the fuck it is, but I want to try. Right. And yeah, this is a weird place. But I remember being like, yeah, if she was in Montreal, I was in L.A. It's like there's no stakes. You know, if you go back to your life, I go back to mine. I could see us just disconnecting much earlier. But like, I really want to give this a shot, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And if we make this commitment, you know, yes, I totally get it. You know, I understand why that was your argument for an engagement. Well, six months removed. Thank God that did not happen. I know everything works out for a reason, but I will say in those moments, and I was also too watching my friends get to live out that fairytale ending. And I felt as though in that moment, their connections, like the relationships on the beach that did end in engagement were not strong as Ava and I. So I was just so confused. So I'm like, well, if they can get there, why can't we? So it's something I definitely harped on a lot.

I do regret how it almost came across as I was begging because I respect myself too much to ever beg a man. But I think just being in that environment and having so many different voices in your head, you definitely get caught up in it all. But I wholeheartedly felt in those moments, Avin was my person. He was someone I was going to spend forever with. Well, those other engagements didn't age quite well either. No, no. Yeah, we were definitely a failure of a Paradise season, but it's fine. All right, so now you guys left Paradise.

This is where the real story starts. Yeah. What was it like the days following you two leaving Paradise and trying to start your relationship in the real world? I remember immediately. So we got home from Paradise like end of June and we were going to have to navigate this like long distance relationship. I had never done long distance. Neither had he.

And so I immediately flew to San Diego for the week for the 4th of July. And like I said, we were fresh off the beach. We were excited. We had such a great week together. We got to finally experience life in a relationship in normalcy. And I was honestly kind of scared because I'm like, OK, we're away from the lights and the cameras, from the glitz and the glamour and like the fantasy of a TV relationship. Am I going to catch the ick? Is he going to catch the ick? Like, is this really going to work out? And it completely debunked all of my worries. It was a great weekend and I truly got to see like, okay, I could see a future with this man. And then we just like made

it a point where we saw each other at least once per month, every month for six months, because we actually broke up the day after the finale. So we were there, we were together like in a full-blown committed relationship up until that day. He came to Charlotte, came to Charlotte back in first of August. He met my family. We spent like 14 days together in September. November, I went back to San Diego. Like we were constantly to be in a long distance relationship. We did so well for ourselves and making it a point to see each other. From your point of view, how strong was your relationship when the season started airing? I would say so season started airing in September. In my eyes, I felt like we were very strong.

We were committed. I was planning on making the steps to move to San Diego. So we were talking through all of that. So personally, for me, I didn't see a switch up or a change. I will say during the time of the airing of the season, we did have some arguments, but I think that just comes with watching everything play back. Sure. Well, can you share what some of those arguments were about? Yeah. So he felt as though I really undermined my connection with Will. He said that I downplayed

it a lot, that I acted to him as though I wasn't interested in Will at all. And so it was hard for him to watch it back, to watch it back with all of his friends. Oh, so like you mean like the normal conversations when you leave filming and then everyone's like, so like what happened before I showed up? I went on a date with this guy named Will and like, so like what happened before I showed up? I went on a date with this guy named Will. And like, honestly, I was waiting for you. It wasn't a thing. And then he goes back and watches it.

Like this motherfucker, you know, like it's a little bit of that. Yeah, a little bit of that. And I'm just like, I think for me, I kind of found it to be silly because I'm like, you know how The Bachelor works. You know how one-on-ones are. Like I'm not going to go on a date with a man

and not kiss him. And two, like I said, I didn't even know if you were coming to the beach. I didn't know what you were going to be like. So of course, I was going to put my best foot forward in that date. So we argued about that. Whenever I'm in front of a camera, for whatever reason, I word vomit a little bit. And so someone would be walking on the beach and I was like, oh my God, he looks so hot and I like not like okay like just very playful yeah didn't mean anything by it like I was committed to Avin since day two and I never gave him a reason not to believe that and I understand why it bothered him a little bit I guess if he said my friend when she walked down on the beach was hot I would be

like okay what was that about but they just seemed a little bit blown out of proportion. And so I just kept telling myself, if we can make it through the show, the end of it, then we're going to be just fine. This is going to be one of our hardest moments and we'll be good. Was there anything that you got frustrated with Avon over while you were dating or while it was airing? I mean, in all relationships, there's always things in a partner that you wish you could change. For me, I feel like Avin is really is set in his ways and he doesn't really deter from what he wants to do, even if it's something that I'm really passionate about. In that time, those six months, if he wasn't about it, he wasn't going to do it point blank period. And that was it. Do you have an example? wasn't about it. He wasn't going to do it point blank period. And that was it. Do you have an example? One, the engagement. But that was a big, like, that's a big deal. I'm not trying to undermine engagement. But just like in regards to moving, I was willing to make the sacrifice to move cross country. I have never lived more than an hour away from home. Everything I love, everyone who I love

is in Charlotte. But I was immediately ready to pack my bags and experience San Diego with him. And he doesn't really have many ties to San Diego. His family is from the East Coast. He has some friends there. But he constantly told me he was like, I built a life here for in San Diego and I don't see myself ever moving. And you're going to have to either be OK with that or we're going to be done. Yeah. And that really, that hurt me a lot because I'm like, I'm willing to make this sacrifice for you, but I have really strong family ties in Charlotte. And when I have a family, I want to be able to go back there and experience that with

them. And so I was kind of having to reimagine my life and what that would look like away from my family in San Diego. And that was, I was very fearful of that. But you were willing to do it and he wasn't. Yeah. And I think for me, like I loved him so much. I still have so much love for him. And I was willing to make that sacrifice for him. And I'm like, I'm like, OK, maybe when I get I was always trying to just give him the benefit of the doubt. Like maybe when I get there, he's going to just come to this realization that he loves me so much too.

He can't see his life without me. And that's going to be his push to one day move. And in that time period, he wasn't budging. And like I said, just with the engagement, a move is a big deal, especially across the country. But I was willing to make that sacrifice. Why didn't he even have the ability to even think about it? So despite that, you felt like your relationship was overall pretty strong.

I would say so. 100%. When did you first catch wind of any infidelity? So we had taken a photo shoot in Charlotte a week before the finale episode aired. We were so excited about posting the pictures. That was kind of like our come out to the world of like we're still together. We're going strong. Despite all of the BS of the last episode, we have gone through our differences. We're good. He was so excited to post the picture like he had had our posts in his drafts for like a week. He had come up with the caption. He was ready to go. He was going to post it. I was going to collaborate on it. And to me, that was like a big deal because

like I said, I have really low standards. But for some guys, posting a female on their Instagram is a big deal. And for him, I know he is a very private person and he's very detail-oriented when it comes to his Instagram. So I'm like, the fact that he wants to post me like this and he's very detail oriented when it comes to his Instagram. So I'm like, the fact that he wants to post me like this and he wants to make it. What do you mean he's a private person? He went on The Bachelorette. I know. I think he forgets what comes with the show. He wanted to go on the show, but he didn't want what comes with it, if that makes sense. No, it does. I mean, that's like half the people who go on the show.

Yeah. He even made the comments too of like, whenever the show is done airing, he didn't want to do any podcasts. He didn't want to do any like, he wanted to be completely detached from the show. And I'm like, okay, that's completely fair. Yeah. Like I'm not mad at you for that. on a Thursday. We posted the picture on a Friday. I was in Charlotte. He was in California. And honestly, I had an hour of bliss because literally within an hour, I decided to hurt my own feelings. But I was scared too, whenever we came out publicly as a couple, people weren't going to necessarily buy in. Like I said, everyone called us- Except you guys as a couple. Yeah. Everyone called us boring. They honestly hated us watching us on tv and i get it most of our moments were boring so like i wouldn't want it to watch us either and then you you know your finale wasn't yeah and then i look like a crazy girl so i'm crazy yeah no little crazy it's okay um so i

completely understand but we were as soon as we posted it, we were getting so much love. And I was genuinely so excited because I was like, all of my fears that I had were kind of wiped out the window. And like I said, I decided to hurt my own feelings by checking my hidden request. That's typically where a lot of the haters are. People who don't follow you. I don't remember what i saw and originally but it said hey girl oh and the hey girl you know you know what that means hey girl hey girl i've been fucking your man yeah i was like oh someone's about to come to me as a

woman and i was like yikes and i was at my favorite restaurant out back with my mom my grandma and my best friend and i was just like mom you remember this moment yeah this was a nightmare i remember sitting there and i was like do i do it and my poor like 85 year old grandma is in love with avon and she was just like kylie don't open it don't open it and i'm like grammy you were toxic i'm gonna open this and so it said hey girl I just wanted to let you know Avon cheated on you July 22nd in Santa Monica I'm just now finding out he wasn't single oh yeah she had the date she had the date there was a time the screenshots the proof the time literally everything and I will say I was so blindsided that i was like there's no way this is true like she's literally just doing this for clout and i was like did you really think that wholeheartedly

so your gut was just like no this is some crazy i was that blindsided for me avan and i yes we did have problems in our relationship everyone does but when it came to ever thinking he would cheat on me, absolutely not. I think too, I truly felt as though he loved me. We were strong, but around November, that was the first time he told me he loved me. And our relationship had like literally taken new heights. We were so good. Like I had a new job lined up for San Diego. I literally put my two weeks in for my job now. I was looking at apartments. We were full speed ahead. The show was about to end. We were ready to go. And I was like,

this man truly loves me. But then again, he loves himself enough. He really cares about what the public eye thinks of him, which is fair. And so I was like, he would never cheat on me just because if anything, he wouldn't want. Yeah, He doesn't want his image to be ruined. There's no way he would be this dumb. And so I was like, okay, let me click on the account. I did. And unfortunately, it was not a bot, which I was like, that could be a scenario too, like a fake account.

Yeah. She was a real girl. Lots of followers, real pictures. And you were like, he would be into her. Yeah. But the thing, the crazy thing is the girl who messaged me is not even the girl that he hooked up with oh it was like it was so far removed it was like a friend of a friend's roommate so it wasn't the girl no it wasn't the

girl i still to this day i have never heard from the girl in santa monica okay and so i was like okay well i'm gonna have to get to the bottom of this. Right. And I was, of course, like, seeing red. And I was immediately just about to text him, like, what the heck? Is this true? And my friend was like, no, Kylie, you need to calm down. You need to get all of the facts.

And then you need to have, like, full-blown proof before you come to this man. So he can't deny anything. I began messaging back and forth with her she ended up calling me she's like well I don't want to get into any of the drama I'm like well baby yeah you knew what was coming when you decided to send that first message and respectfully as a woman you should respect me enough to be able to give me all of the details and so we like I said we kept going back and forth I could tell she was withholding information. And I first was like, okay, was this man even in Santa Monica on July 22nd? So I'm like, where was I? I was in Miami with Charity,

Kat, Mercedes, and Jess. And I look back and it's a selfie of him on the train from San Diego to Santa Monica for Ethan and Meatball's birthday. And I was like, this could really be true. And he, I remember being in Miami and I'm like, okay, I know how it would feel if I was a guy, my girlfriend's living her best life at Club Live. Like I don't want to put him in an uncomfortable situation so I remember being in Miami with my friends going out of my way to make him feel so comfortable like I was texting him all the time facetiming him like I wanted him to know that I was okay and I was they're like I might be in Miami with my girls yeah but like I'm still thinking about you and so I thought the same

for him like he was in Santa Monica he was giving me giving me play by play of all the places that he went to that night, which was ended up being a disservice in his end because the girl was giving me a play by play of all the places they went tonight. And the receipts were matching up. And I was just like, oh, this is so true. And I was still like, OK, well, she said that he hooked up with someone. But then again, like girls can just be like, oh, my, she said that he hooked up with someone. But then again, like, girls can just be like, oh, my God, like, Ava's so cool. He's from The Bachelor. I totally hooked up with him.

And, like, they never did. So I said, do you have any, like, full-blown evidence that he stayed the night with her? And she was like, yes, I have a picture of him in her bed the next morning. What? Yeah. She took it? The girl took a picture, yeah., I have a picture of him in her bed the next morning. What? She took it? The girl took a picture. Do you have the picture? I do.

Can I see it? I can show it to you. We won't air it. Yeah, no, I can show you. Can we grab it? Yeah. Do you have my phone? Mom?

In his defense. Come on down. In his defense, he had his clothes on. Yay. But that's when. If this motherfucker is smiling in this picture no you know it's like him sleeping and she like sneakily like took a photo to like sit in her group chat and be like i just sucked up i literally this picture every time i go to bed at night and try to get a restful night it pops up immediately in my brain that's when my heart sank and i was having an out-of experience because I'm like, I never saw this coming ever in my life. Yeah.

It's just the back of his head. Yeah. But it is like full on like girl just hooked up. It's the hand. Why does she have the hand? The hand. So it's like her hand on his back. Can you hand it to me?

And we and you just I wouldn't know this is Avon. I oh, it's you know it's avon and i even have a shirt yeah i have a picture of him in his outfit and that's the shirt he wore that night it's really the hand it's the hand it's the hand what was she doing with the hand i don't know she was she had to show that like that it was her and she was he's in the bed with her like she sent it to her you know like she's bragging to her friends that she bagged them yeah wow so she sent that to you sent that to me literally the proof had slapped me in the face there was nothing that i could do to deny it or tell myself it wasn't true like the proof is in the pudding. So I'm like having a panic attack on the side of my street about to walk up. Where are you in this moment? Yeah.

So I left out. Yeah, we left out. So the story turns out the blooming onion on the table. Yes. We're like, we got out. I can never get out back again. Sorry, out back. And so we make our way to my apartment.

She sends me the picture as I'm like on the street parking. And I literally just like collapse. Like I cannot, I can't even, everything went numb. And so I'm still seeing red. I'm like running up to my apartment so I can call him. He's actually in Anaheim. One of his friends is like a UFC fighter. And so he was at one of his fights and I call him but he's at dinner prior and he's like hey babe what are you doing like it's loud he's living his best life and I'm like I'm about to literally like rain on his parade and I'm like I'm gonna need you to leave and he's like what I can't hear I'm like I'm gonna need you to leave and I start to I like, where were you July 22nd after Eric and Meatball's birthday? And he was like, I stayed with Eric. And I said, where were you July 22nd after the birthday party? And he was like, I was at Eric's. And I was like, okay, well, why do I have a picture of you in another female's bed the next morning?

Is this Eric Gabby's ex? Yeah, Eric. And now that I know a little bit more about Eric, I'm just like, I probably wouldn't have felt comfortable with him hanging out with him anyway.

I thought Eric has a girlfriend. I don't know. I think they broke up. I don't know. I think they broke up. Yeah. That is, I don't know if that's the tea,

but that's what I heard. Okay. And so I was, and it just like went dead silent. And i will say he immediately owned up to it and so i can give him credit for that he didn't try to deny okay and what did he what do you say after he lied twice sure but i mean you're right after he said i have proof of you in this woman's bed he was like that's not me other people would i mean yeah he was oh well i i just slept over there i didn in this woman's bed. He was like, that's not me. Other people would, I mean. Yeah, he was like, oh, I just slept over there. I didn't do anything.

No, he was like, Kylie, I don't even know what I should say for myself. There is nothing to say. There's no excuse for my actions. All I can do is say how purposely sorry I am. And to be clear, hooked up, they had sex? I do believe, yes, they did have sex. And to kind of make matters worse, it was a situation. It was just a random girl at the bar. They had gone back to the

roommate's apartment. They did a little post game. He ended up leaving and going back to Eric's. And she called him and was like, hey, like, I didn't want you to leave. Come back. And he was like, well, I didn't really want to leave either. So it was the circle back that really got me. I think for me, if he was drunk and, you know, one thing led to the other and he mistakenly fell asleep there and then there's no excuse for it, but his actions were intentional. And that was what was really heartbreaking to me, for sure. And so there was a lot of screaming on the phone, a lot of crying on both of our ends and I was just like I don't know like you literally just let me go public with you like I have people calling my phone saying oh my god congratulations texting me I'm so excited for you our Instagram post had

blown up and here I am dealing with all of this like how did you not why did you not think you were gonna get caught like it's one thing to do. It's another not to tell me about it, but then to embarrass me like this, it was just a lot to process. Then what happened? So that whole night I was just kind of in my head. I was in actual disbelief and I couldn't believe something like that had happened. I will say, I was like, I was giving him the benefit of the doubt. I was like, okay, it happened in July, early July. If we wouldn't have gone on Paradise, we most likely wouldn't even have been dating. At that time, we probably would have still been just talking.

This was a normal relationship. Just kind of going through all of the scenarios. You're jumping through some mental hoops in order to forgive him, basically. Yeah, basically. And so to make matters worse he was going on out of the country on a dominican trip with my family this happened i found out on a friday night we were supposed to leave that wednesday what's the date when you found out uh so i think it aired on december 7th i found out about the first on december 8th and then we were

supposed to go to the dominican the wednesday okay and so i was like i don't want to tell all of course like my mom and my grandma knew but Okay. And so I was like, I don't want to tell all, of course, like my mom and my grandma knew, but I didn't want to tell my dad. I didn't want to tell all my family because I had a feeling in that moment. Hey, I think we can work through this. I love him enough to trust him, to be able to potentially trust him again and get back together. So the next morning I woke up, we talked through things. I was like, I don't want to tell, if you don't come to the Dominican with us I'm gonna be sad my dad and my brother are gonna be like well what happened

and then I'm gonna have to tell him but if we do go to the Dominican like it's gonna be awkward this is our first time seeing each other since everything like what do we do and he wasn't texting me back for a while and I was like wait this is weird I'm literally here you are I'm giving him grace and I'm giving him a chance and I'm literally here you are I'm giving him grace and I'm giving him a chance and I'm getting ghosted yeah I'm like he should be texting me back within a second like what is going on I was getting my nails done I kept checking my phone and then I go to my car and I'm driving and I get a text message from him and it's like a book long and I'm like this is not going to be good and this is the point where i i've never felt more broken before in my life

and i might get a little bit emotional talking about it because this just seemed at this point to me it just seemed like the end and once again i do respect him enough as a man because when telling me about this other situation i would have never found out do you have i mean can we just read the text? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I found it. All right. It's really long.

You're getting your nails did. Yes. I'm driving at this point. She leaves. I see this. You're driving. I'm driving, yes. Did you pull over?

Pulled over, Jersey Mike's parking lot, another place I love. That's brutal. Yeah, I'm like, I'll never eat Jersey Mike's again. Thanks a lot. I read, it says, Kylie, I need you to listen to me and read this. There's something else you need to know. And I'm doing this knowing it'll be you ending this with me because I have totally lost you and everything and I've lost myself.

So I think when it comes to this, I'm like, okay, still not giving him the benefit of the doubt, but it does allow me to respect him a little bit more just because he's forthcoming with this information i would have never found out about what he's about to tell me if he wouldn't have told me that's fair and he said both times i went home to boston i rekindled with an old childhood friend who i've known for years who i used to have feelings for both times we hooked up and i was going to tell you but i was told not to because she didn't want to be involved i have made these mistakes. I have really fucked up and hurt you.

I'm laying this out there, but that is the full extent of everything over the last six months. LA and the two Boston trips. I'm worthless and I feel totally, totally worthless right now. I stepped out on a relationship and I don't know what to do. I don't deserve to be painted in any good light. I don't deserve you. I don't deserve anyone. I'm telling you this because you deserve to know and that is the only thing. I need to seek major

help in rebuilding myself. I have pretended to be something I'm not for the last few months and it is a problem. My feelings for you have grown so so strong and I've just completely ruined it all. I ruined such a good thing, the best thing. I'm so sorry I've done these things to you. I have serious issues that I need to take care of and I've lost the best thing in my life because I was being a selfish inconsiderate prick who was not taking this relationship seriously. I don't know what I'm going to do without you. I just talked to my mom and she's beyond upset with me. I have lost everything. I'm a horrible horrible person and I'm completely shutting down. That's everything that has happened and that I've done and whatever you need to do or to post or whatever all I care about is you. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry about everything. I have ruined everything. As this relationship has

gotten to this point, I've grown deeper and deeper in love with you. And at the beginning, I wasn't taking this seriously at all. I wasn't putting in any effort. I didn't think we were going to get to such a good point. And that is not fair. It's a waste of your time and you deserve a better person than me. You deserve someone who is going to love you and give you everything and I have not done that. I have laid everything out and I'm the worst human on earth. I'm sorry. I'm so sorry that I've done this to us. I'm taking full responsibility for this ridiculously disrespectful mistake.

I know there's nothing I can do to mend this. I'm not a good person and I don't deserve anyone or anything. Okay. Wow. When was the two Boston trips? When did he say he went? So he was there in August. Okay. So it was July, August. Wow. When was the two Boston trips? When did he say he went? So he was there in August. Okay.

So it was July, August. September. And September. Tougher to swallow than the July ones. Yeah. Like I said, the July time, it was something that I could get over. Sorry for interrupting, but for the people listening, I hear what you're saying. Yeah.

Because when you get out of a bachelor bubble, it's a very weird feeling and you feel, you know, I don't, not brainwashed, but like it's, you're just, you're in this bubble and nothing really else matters. And so when you get out, there is an adjustment period for these couples. And what he did was, there's no excuse. He was wrong. We're not making excuses for him, but I can understand why you were able to try to find a way to forgive him just because of how tumultuous it can be for couples who just kind of get out. And it almost

feels not real. Like it almost feels like, are we actually really dating? Are we, what's going on? Like you live across the country. Like we met on a show. I don't fucking know. So I hear you there. Yeah. But August, September, you guys were really advancing your relationship. Yeah. Like I said, at that point he had met my family. We had spent so much time together. Literally the time before going in September, I had just spent 14 days with him. I left Tuesday morning. He left that night to go to Boston. So we were literally just together.

And for me, I think what's so hard is, and I've been in relationships before, but a character flaw of mine was I was always scared to settle down because I'm like, what if someone better comes along? Yeah. Kind of searching for the next best thing. And for me with Avin. Very 2024. Yeah. With me, with Avin, it was the complete opposite. Like, I literally loved this man with everything.

Nikki, I can say he was the first man I ever truly loved. And so to be so blindsided, to be wrecked the way I was, not only the way it happened, but in such a public platform, it just, it felt like my life was over in that moment. How did you respond to that message? I immediately called him and I could not form words. I was like, I was screaming out. I don't think I ever cried that much before in my life. And he was crying. Like it was just such an emotional time. And I think that I was sad Friday

absolutely because I was like what is happening but I almost went to bed with kind of a peace of mind because I was like okay this is hard but we're gonna get through it when I found that found that out on Saturday I was like this is over and I don't I just here I am been with this man for six months like he's all I've really thought about. I'm planning my life around him. And just like that in a blink of an eye everything that we've built is done for. And once again I was I was I felt like I was living in a lie too because I still had so many people posting about our relationship so excited calling me texting me. posting about our relationship, so excited, calling me, texting me. And I just felt like suffocated because I'm like, what do I say to these people? How do I respond? Like, I don't know. And that's when I took it upon myself to make that post that night, just because I was like, I don't, I physically can't continue to live in this lie. It's only making it worse for me and worse for my mental health. And so a lot of people I've gotten backlash, like you just did that for cloud or what for cloud post supposed to do. I don't know

that. I'm like, there was no, there's no right way to go about that. Like in that moment, I felt so, I guess I felt so strong and empowering because I'm like, once I post that, I'm kind of telling the world like it's over and it's going to be really hard to ever come back from that. Do you feel, yeah, was it almost like you knew that you wanted to forgive him? Yeah, absolutely. And like that posting almost was a way of holding yourself more accountable not to? Yeah. I think for me, I've always just wanted to be loved so badly and to build a family and to have like that fairytale happy ending, I think I would have just looked past it because I had so much love for him. But that's not fair. Like, it's just not fair to me.

I think now I've done so much growth in these past two years, especially after my bachelor experiences. I respect myself too much to immediately have taken him back. And so I think that was kind of my way of forcing myself to be like, no, this is the right thing to do. You need to do it. When I posted it, did I have a little bit of like, oh God, what have I done? Absolutely. But it honestly felt right in the moment.

His letter was pretty solid. I don't like his constant, I'm a terrible person, I'm a terrible person. It felt like a little self-pity. Yeah. A lot of it was strong. Yeah. There's a part where he said, I feel like I lost myself and I really need to work on myself. That last part to me is like the operative part.

Right. Because like, listen, people make mistakes. Unfortunately, infidelity is a thing in relationships that unfortunately a lot of people have to deal with and people can recover from it. But very few people actually want to actually make the changes they talk about making. And are you aware of any actions that Avin has done since this revelation between the two of you that would suggest that he actually is making positive changes in his life or have you just not spoken to him at all yeah so i think the first positive step that i saw him take was his response to my post on instagram um for a bare minimum yeah a bare minimum oh absolutely but that just him said like him immediately owning up to it he could have taken the easy road out and been like not everything is as it seems or denied it um even though i did have full blown proof um so i think i only had a picture yeah unfortunately um i think what did you say anything about the picture like you dumb motherfucker i sent it to him and his response was like oh god and i was like yeah oh god so i think that first

step it showed a lot of about him as a man and i do know i mean i'm not going to sit here in line say i haven't spoken to him i have spoken to him and he is currently taking the steps to be a better person and i think what's what are those steps i know he's going to therapy now okay good for him i think it's unfortunate for us, especially me, because I just feel like collateral damage and all of this. But something like this needed to happen to him for him to open his eyes and change. I think he would have constantly gone through the emotions of being in relationships and not really fully committing to someone, not realizing him to himself, he does deserve love. And he can find that if he's able to put the effort and work into it. So I think it took this big of a slap in the face for him to want to change and to realize he does need to change. Like I said, it's unfortunate for both parties, but I don't think our relationship would have ever gotten to a place it needed to happen, like to get to if it wasn't for this moment.

Does he know you're doing this podcast? He does know I'm doing this podcast. What are his thoughts? Surprisingly, he has been very supportive in a sense of, he doesn't want, he wants me to be able to share my side of things, to clear the air and to give my story. Did he ask you to hold back or not share anything? He honestly did not. Bible. It sucks because it was such a big story when it first

happened. And obviously like hate and stuff like this is very fleeting. The next reality TV show, there's going to be more drama when it comes to that. And everyone immediately forgets about what happens, but this is going to obviously open the can of worms again. But to be clear, we do not want anyone hearing this episode and going to his page or messaging him anything nasty or anything at all. Yeah, no, I'm not doing this podcast to break him down as a person anymore. I respect him too much. I am someone who believes that if you want it bad enough, you can change. For me, I unfortunately had to deal with this on such a public platform, but I do know the reality of the situation is that so many other people have to deal with things like this. So if I'm able to relate to at least one person out there, then it's worth it

for me because I know just how I've had to build my life back up in just the short amount of period, like time period. But yeah, I don't know. It's been hard. Like I said, it's probably one of the hardest things I've, because like in an instant, my life changed. Yeah, you went from thinking this is my future. Yeah.

Like all the excitement around a public relationship and you guys post the first time you're like oh my god people like it they're gonna hate us like we're gonna have some fun and then literally i hurt my own feelings do you regret checking that dm heck no but i'm just like life would look a little bit different but i am every time i open my hidden request i'm like scared to see another hey girl just let me let you know has uh grandma recovered oh um no grandma is still screaming crying throwing up she just like wants me to be happy and i don't think anyone even my friends have said it they're like honestly kylie like you're not like a relationship girl in a sense we just never thought that you were gonna

actually find someone and not get the ick from them. So like, this is a big deal. And I'm like, they're like, we've never seen you so happy. So it's just a very shitty situation. Well, I appreciate you sharing. I am getting the sense, obviously, and I know we talked prior to coming to this, but I'm getting the sense that there's, you still have some hope in your heart. Now, before you answer that question, we're going to give you a break. Okay. It's time for texting office hours. And we're going to focus on someone else's relationship problems and hopefully help someone through their struggle. And just so you know, we offer advice through our own mistakes that we've learned from the past. So we're not, no one here is an expert, uh, but we're just trying to help out a friend. So let's get

ready for texting office hours. And when we come back, we will address maybe what's in the future for Kylie. Do you hold out hope for you and Avon? And where do you go from here? Way, baby, your hair is looking shiny. You want to know what it is? I do. It's way. So they actually just came out with a hair gloss and I used it in the shower the other night. You shampoo your hair and then you put the gloss in and then you let it, you brush through it and then you don't use conditioner and your hair feels so silky smooth. And then I'd got out and blow dried it and it was just so shiny. I mean, you always look radiant, but there was something a little more shiny about your hair.

Thank you. I'm obsessed with way products. They actually have a ton of stuff that I use and love their hair oil. Oil for those of you who aren't from the South. It is also extremely shiny, glossy. A little bit goes a long way. They have also leave-in conditioner, detox shampoo. The detox shampoo, I will say, is really good for when you've been going on a no-wash streak for a while. Maybe you've been putting some product in and you really just need to get it all out. The detox is iconic for that. Love that.

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Oh my goodness. I'm just saying. You know what? Or have little hairs all over the toilet seat because they need to weed whack. Yeah. And again, like I said, if they don't have something for their under area, that means they're using your. I'm just telling you, you heard it from me first.

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Get 20% off and free shipping with code VIALL at Manscaped.com. That's 20% off with free shipping at Manscaped.com. Get 20% off and free shipping with code VIALL at Manscaped.com. That's 20% off with free shipping at Manscaped.com and use code VIALL. Here's to keeping the romance alive one smooth move at a time. How's it going? I'm doing well. How are you? I'm good. What's your name? My name is Kayla. I'm 27 and I'm currently navigating the aftermath of two messy situationships and I'm skeptical of the possibility of finding a drama-free connection. Okay, let's talk about these situationships. I need the tea. So the first one was about like five or six months and it was around the ending. So like summer and winter of last year and things were like super hot and heavy.

He was super into me from what he told me. It felt very genuine, but like looking back in hindsight, it might've been love bombing. I sort of find that I'm falling into this love bombing trap. So, you know, things were really good and we communicated really well. He was able to tell me what he like enjoyed about me. And he was able to communicate his feelings really well. He was able to tell me what he enjoyed about me. And he was able to communicate his feelings really well and his expectations. And he really set expectations and boundaries before even I did. And I was more the reserved one and holding my heart really tight. What were those expectations and boundaries that he set? So he was kind of vague. He was a little bit younger. So he was 24 at the time. I was 27 at the time, which isn't a huge age gap. But I think it kind of showed, especially in this conversation. He told me that he was interested in kind of just seeing where things went.

But he was really I don't know. He was just very into me. He just he just I don't know, probably was just love on me, honestly. But I mean, he was excited about you. Yeah. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. But once I finally got to a point where I said, you know, I totally agree like ditto, he pulled out. And this same exact thing happened like a month ago with the guy that ended up ghosting me and then reached back out eight days later, citing that he liked me too much,

which like make that make sense. No, it doesn't. I mean, it's just something guys make up. Yeah, it's a poor excuse. Exactly. But give us more details about this other situation. OK, so let's call him Drew. Drew's the five to six month relationship.

Things were going really well. We had a really good sex life. I don't know. It seemed like we were very compatible. We understood each other's values. But you were dating for five or six months. We were in like a situation for five or six months. Because why? Because you didn't want to date because he didn't want to date. Like why? You know, for five or six months of hooking up, where were the like, hey, you know, I like you. I think we should date or the what are we? You know, even though I hate that.

But like what was going on in those five or six months? So I had my first real heartbreak this time last year. OK. And I navigated it really, really poorly for a while. And it took me up until probably the summer to really kind of come into my own and start having conversations with myself. I read your book and sought therapy and really kind of work through things. So I was doing all of that while talking to him. And my therapist really urged me to kind of stay alone, but I

was really interested in this guy at the time. So it was like this weird toss up of like, I really enjoy him and I want to be committed to him, but I'm not sure if I'm ready. I'm not sure if I'll make a mess of it because my therapist has faith in me, but I think it was more like you have work to do. And I was doing that work and I wasn't able to juggle both.

Okay. You were kind of playing a role in it being a situationship in a way. I would agree with that. Yes. I think, I think we had, I'm guessing your therapist didn't tell you to keep hooking up with them. If you weren't going to date them or, or maybe they did. I don't know. I was telling my therapist that I really enjoyed Drew and that we had really good conversations, everything that I've told you.

And his thought was basically like, you know, if it's a positive thing that's happening in your life, there's no need for it to end. But I was also sort of in the thought of like, Drew's actions were not matching up with what he was saying. So I was trying to find the disconnect there. And love bomb is something that I've like recently heard, like, you know, going around and like with hindsight, I'm thinking that that's kind of what I was experiencing. I was like, okay, so you're telling me you like me, you like me, you like me, but you can't make a plan. You're not telling me that, you know, I don't, I don't know. There weren't like steps going forward.

So it was difficult. Okay. So just so we're clear, because if you have love bomb a few times, I wasn't there. So I don't know for sure. But love bombing is only when someone's actually trying to elicit a response to manipulate you. You know, like when a guy is like, I love you, let's have sex, you know, something like that.

Or I love you. Like, I want this in return rather than a guy being like, I fucking love you. You're the best. And then you guys hook up and he all of a sudden gets a little weird afterwards and realizes maybe he just wanted to have sex that's that's just someone being a poor communicator and super immature and incredibly selfish but not necessarily love bombing okay love bombing is like a deliberate move to say i'm gonna promise you this in exchange for that and And it turns out, and I'm just lying to

you. And they're using love in the, in the words of validation to get you to, you know, comply with whatever it is they want from you. That's not the same as an immature guy, not being in tune with his emotions and getting caught up in the moment and selfishly say things he doesn't realize he maybe not doesn't mean. You know what I'm saying? Does that make sense? Totally. Yeah. I guess I was just trying to name it because I've kind of gotten to this point where like New Year's Eve just happened. I'm turning 28 soon. It's like I'm manifesting this year to be amazing for me. So I'm really trying to approach things in a more healthy way. So like naming it, I felt like was, was helpful. Cause I just, I can't keep,

I don't want to date a puzzle anymore. I feel like I've only found puzzles and I just want someone who's kind of under museum glass. Yeah. So when these guys are expressing these words of validation to you, have you ever asked them, why do you feel that way? Yeah. My love language is words of affirmation, like a hundred percent. I don't really react well to someone just saying, I love you. I feel like I want to hear because, and I feel like there are so many great things about

everybody that, you know, if you're going to choose one person to really enjoy that you should know the things that you enjoy about them and be able to maybe list just like a couple of them, which actually concerns me because I haven't really been able to list any about Drew just like within the last few minutes. Well, I should be able to tell you something. Red flag. Yeah. When you're asking why, like, what are they saying? Nothing. Exactly what I just did. I think it's just like, it's like, well, what do you mean? Like, like, what are they saying? Nothing. Exactly what I just did. I think it's just like, it's like, well, what do you mean? Like, why would I be here?

It's more like it turns on me. In that moment, are you able to like have that like, well, you should know? No. I think I've been able to in the past, but I give a lot of allowance to people. And I understand that maybe men aren't as in tune with their feelings and able to communicate them as well. Or maybe some men, I shouldn't paint with a broad brush. But it's really hard to... I don't want to pull things out of the person that I'm dating.

It would be really great if someone could just offer exactly what I'm offering. Because I feel like I really try to do everything for my partner and it doesn't ever seem to be reciprocated. I hear you. But like, I think there's a difference between trying to beg to pull something out of them and asking a very simple question is, oh, that's great. Like, why do you feel the way you do? Sure. Because it's, you know, in dating and forget about the love bombers out there, know we've all been excited we all have been caught up in the moment you know we've all been like holy shit like and when we find someone we're really attracted to or we meet someone else that we have this instant chemistry with you know

whether it's because we're attracted to them or we we went to the same church or we had a shared mutual experience you know it's very easy to be like, oh, you love me? Great. You know, but, and it can be scary to ask why, because sometimes our instincts will tell, you know, our deep down are just like, maybe they're just excited, but we'd rather just be present and then take the compliment rather than actually fact check it, so to speak. But I just do is not an acceptable answer to I love you. And if they don't have an answer, that's fine. But that is just maybe a signal to you that they're just excited about you. And that's also okay. You're a very beautiful woman. Guys, if they meet you, they might get excited, but they need to be able to articulate that because if they can't articulate it, it's not love. I'm sure they feel strongly. And I'm assuming

that's because you want someone who loves you to be able to explain why, you know, and it's not just because they think you're pretty or fun. You know, I'm guessing you want someone to love you for a million different reasons and you want it to be easy for them to say it because it's so obvious to them. Yeah. And that takes time, you know, and that's okay. And sometimes I think it could be a very mature conversation when you meet a guy and he's like really excited about you. I really like you and, uh, you know, or I love you and you say, well, why do you feel that way you do?

And then you could, and they could be like, oh, I don't know. What do you mean? I just do. It's just like, yeah, listen, I guess you're just excited about me. And I get it because people get excited about me all the time. You can fuck around with them, but like, maybe we're just not quite there yet because listen, I just want a guy and that's okay. We're not there.

Well, I'll take it slow, but I want a guy who can explain it, you know, because I'm, it's just do is, isn't love, you know? And so maybe you just need to practice being comfortable enough to ask those questions and be okay with their answer. Yeah. I, I totally agree with you. I think like in my last relationship where that it ended in a crazy heartbreak, it began with a lot of really meaningful compliments.

And I, like, I was living off of that. Like it was like adrenaline every single time I heard something like that. And then it just kind of went away, you know, as the relationship went on. And, you know, as I noticed it, I would communicate. And I've done that with pretty much every person I've dated because they all just kind of fizzle out for whatever reason. But, you know, I communicate and I say, it would be really great if you could just like elaborate, like just use more words. And my ex and Drew both had very similar responses where it was like, I just, I, I just don't have the words. And then I would, you know, kind of egg them on maybe a little bit more and be like, okay, well, can you maybe talk about this, that and everything. And it just feels,

it feels like so juvenile that I have to sit down with the person that I'm having sex with and ask them, can you please explain to me reasons why you, why you enjoy my presence? Like, it just seems dumb. But then also with the guy who ghosted me, he told me he liked me. I don't know if you have those, those screenshots, but I mean, those sent me in a tail spin. Kylie, do you want to do dramatic reading with me? Sure. Well, what are we calling him? We can call him Ben. Okay. Fuck it. Hey Ben. Hey Ben. Ben. Kylie, do you want to do dramatic reading with me? Sure. Well, what are we calling him? We can call him Ben. Okay, fuck it. Hey, Ben. Hey, Ben. Ben. There's a Ben out there who's a douchebag. Listen, I'm interested in getting to know you. And for me, that means making plans. If that's something you want to do, you have a super weird way of showing it. And it's leaving

me confused. I understand your response times are slower than some. So I definitely think it's fair to be patient and shit. But also, I feel like it's fair to expect at least some excitement to make a plan what started that conversation he did he ghost you prior to this and like you've been waiting around and you're like struggling with the fact should i text him should i not text him and then you decided okay screw it i'm texting him and that was the text you sent it was a mini ghost and then you decided, okay, screw it. I'm texting him. And that was the text you sent? It was a mini ghost. And then the text that he sent right after were eight days after I had sent those texts. Okay, well, you nailed that kind.

Yeah, you know, we go through the mental battle. Do we text him? Do we not text him? I always go, don't text him. No response is the best response, but hey, I still respect you for it. He replies eight days later. Dang, eight days.

Hi, I'm sorry for disappearing. Feel free to tell me to fuck off and be gone forever. Okay, well, I think there was a thing happening

where I really liked you. Still do, parentheses, and part of me wants to pursue the aggressive relationship building, but also part of me

was being immature and scared. All of which is to say i'm very sorry for going awol i'm very sorry for not being better to you i was a little scared i couldn't be everything you needed me to be and frankly i do did still do have such a massive crush on you it kind of makes me nervous the way i feel about you already they're not scared they're never scared that's a cop-out yeah it's such a cop-out like I like you too much do you hear the overall like vagueness cloud that's surrounding those texts like that's what I'm used to I don't think and

I don't think they're being I don't think they're being vague though like I feel like he wanted to end things with you but he didn't know how to say it. So he wanted to take the high road of like, oh my God, I like you so much, but I don't think I can be with you. Well, if you like a person, you can be with them, point blank period. And it shouldn't take him eight days to respond to you. So to me, that's a cop-out and an excuse and trying to make himself feel better for basically like, quote unquote, breaking up with you. How much are you pursuing versus being pursued when it comes to your dating life? In recent months, I've kind of taken a step back over the last year since my breakup.

I literally broke up with my ex this time last year. So it's been a year of like hinge and not hinge doing some like, oh, I met them through this person kind of dates I've met some people through like Facebook groups and like book clubs stuff like that but generally I'm pretty active or I've tried to be but I I'm just overall like kind of discouraged with with this behavior it's incredibly discouraging. How old are these men that you're usually dating? I've dated a huge range.

I think the oldest I've dated was 38. Okay. And the youngest was probably 24. Okay. But there's a variety. Yeah. I mean, I don't have a clear answer for you other than you're an attractive person and my guess is you're an attractive person.

And my guess is you're picky. A little bit. And my guess is the men that you're attracted to are probably of the fuck boy category because they can be. And basically every guy who can be a fuck boy is going to be a fuck boy at some point in their life. This is something you're going to deal with. And the way to deal with it is getting good at trusting your gut and your instincts. And I know you mentioned, hey, I'm getting discouraged and it's frustrating. I don't have much of an answer for you there because dating is discouraging and frustrating. After this guy didn't text you back for eight days, the correct response would have been for you to just block, delete it and move on.

But your ego wanted an answer. You needed to know why did he not, you know. So it's like, what about after him not texting you back for four or five or eight days said to you, this is a guy who's worth my energy and time that I should keep pursuing? Nothing. Nothing. It's 100% my ego. It is painful, painful news. Yeah. Well, you'll always deal with it. We all do, right? And your ego will

serve you well. Your ego is the thing that makes you say, I can do this. I can apply for this job. I can, whatever it is that you take a risk and challenge yourself. Your ego is the thing that makes you think that gives you the confidence to do the impossible or what might feel like the impossible. So your ego can be a great thing. It's just learning how to control it, you know, in these in these moments. And instead of trying to make excuses for these guys, because the idea of a guy waiting eight days to text you back is unbelievable to your ego. eight days to text you back is unbelievable to your ego. It's just accepting that maybe, you know, I just found another, you know, guy in his fuck boy era who's not willing to not be a fuck boy for me. Sure. Totally. I think through time I've definitely gotten better, but it's just

taken, it's taken a lot of men, which it just ends up causing a little bit more damage. You mentioned that situationships end once someone enforces boundaries. And my question for you is, as an example, every single one of these men that I've talked about enforced the boundaries before I did. And what are those boundaries? They would ask me to be their girlfriend. They would say, I want to be exclusive. I want you to do this thing. It was very like in hindsight, fuck boy to be like i want you to only be having sex with me or you know putting putting those boundaries down but it's so so confusing when well that's i mean i'm curious are they are they asking you not to have sex with other people are they actually asking you to be their girlfriend they're asking me to be their girlfriend like they're okay they want to

commit i mean you would be it's so so shocking with what they're saying versus the actions that they're displaying it is it's a mind fuck when you're in the dating world well always believe their actions and if their actions aren't lining up with what they're saying ask more questions and just point it out just like yeah that's great like, that doesn't feel like you want to, or I'm confused because you say this and do that. But I just think, yeah, it's, it really just, it's an ego thing, I think for you, because I think, you know, you're not, you don't have problem meeting men. You don't have a problem like, you know, flirting with men. And it's just, as I always say, you have to shift through dirt to get to gold. And so you're just going to have to get better at shifting through dirt faster.

It's really just about efficiency for you, you know, because it's not like I can't, I don't know how to meet guys. I don't know where to meet guys. It's every guy you're meeting and interested in and liking and attracted to is a potential fuck boy. And you just need to learn those tools to figure it out faster. How do I sort of determine with my actions and how I act? Because I've tried that, but I think I've overcorrected so far to like chill girl that I'm not getting anything that

I need and all of my thoughts, feelings, and everything go out the window. Give me an example. I can't find this like happy medium of like, I don't want to be the chill girl and not have any standards, but I also don't want to be like a psycho and come on and be like, do you want to marry me? You know, like what's the in between? This is crazy because you sound so similar to me. It's like, if I do too much, then I'm going to be like the crazy bitch.

And they're going to be like, whoa, you're coming on way too strong. But if I'm too chill, one that can come across as maybe I'm not that interested in you or like just I don't know I get what you're saying I think you have to realize your worth like Nick said you are giving these guys a lot of excuses like you are still after reading that message you should have been like this is a cop-out he doesn't actually really like me he's just saying this to try to like find an end to it so you if he wanted to he would point blank period so it's all about actions and kind of deciphering through like is what he's saying to me actually true or does he actually genuinely like me so i get it it's hard it's really hard but realize your worth and don't take any type of excuses yeah i mean i get it. It's hard. It's really hard, but realize your worth and don't take any type of excuses.

Yeah. I mean, I get it. It's frustrating. It's just about getting better at listening to yourself because your gut's usually right. And my guess is you ignore your gut more than you realize or admit to yourself or you make excuses. And whole like uh you know you called up originally asking about like addicted to drama because you know it's it's again you've heard me say like drama's fun it's a challenge it's you know and then it's well what if i'm wrong like maybe maybe they deserve a chance and things like that and yeah you just you have to just it's really just about checking in with yourself on a regular basis. And so, you know, you meet a guy, how do I, how do I feel about him? Pay attention to how you're feeling in that moment

about them. And how do you feel about what they say to you or how they respond to you? And then, you know, and, and if you get a feeling that's off, ask more questions, you know, you just have to name the bullshit a little bit faster because right now my guess is when the bullshit presents itself you you you get a little excited because it's kind of fun it's a little bit of a game oh absolutely it's a bit of a puzzle it's a little bit of a challenge you just have to be patient and keep checking in with yourself maybe you know slow down from dating maybe take a break here or there, you know, like you are only the fact that you can recognize that this is like the anniversary of

you eating your heartbroken, like that. I don't know what it is like fucking aura out there or whatever, but you're the world is reminding you of that heartbreak you had. And in a way you're trying to forget it and overcompensate it by like getting yourself caught up in the drama of these other men. So just be mindful about that, you know, so maybe just like when you do that, slow down a little bit and it's okay. A year after your heartbreak to just say, you know what, that still makes me sad when I think about it. It doesn't mean you're not over it and things like that, but it's healthier to check in with yourself and admit a feeling you're feeling rather than ignore that feeling and then try to overcompensate it by getting involved in an

unhealthy situation that is only just preoccupying from the feeling that you're trying to ignore. Yeah. I have a history of giving my energy, all of my energy to men that don't deserve it. And it's something that I am definitely working on. But then also like, I'll just speak for myself coming from someone who has so much relationship trauma history and now like dealing with the, the like minutia and like dumb bullshit. It's just, it's different. All of my relationships before, like I said, ended in like big firework kind of things. And now they're ending and ghosting and, and just like weird miscommunications. And well, and in fact, that's actually progress because at least you are checking in like a little bit, right? Again, like the fuck boys find boundaries inconvenient. And so you're, this is you trying to set expectations

and enforce your own boundaries. And so that's why you're getting the ghosting and you're getting the guys who are backing off because I'm guessing when you were younger in the past, you wouldn't do this. You would just put up with it. You would make excuses for them in your head. You wouldn't address it.

And then you were in too deep, five, six, 12 months into a relationship before you actually started listening to your body and saying this is bullshit fuck this get me if i'm wrong kylie if this isn't resonating with you at all no i i feel this deep in myself you know what i'm saying and then so this is progress this is this is you finding out that they're not with your time much faster now you just need to get a little bit better you know now you need to now you need to go from not dating them for five or six months to you know when they go next you know now you need to now you need to go from not dating them for five or six months to you know when they go next you know what not worth my time and you'll get better at it the

more you're willing to accept that every guy you meet is potentially in their fuck boy era and that's not you being cynical or jaded oh my god what you just said is crazy because i think the opposite i'm like every single person I meet could be my husband. No, they could. It's a problem. Listen, every fuck boy is someone's future wife or husband, you know? Like, especially in 2024,

we're in a hookup culture era, you know? And so all being a fuck boy is, to me, is the willingness to participate in hookup culture, have sex with someone you don't have an emotional connection with, find out they might like you a little bit more than you like them and still have sex with them. And that's basically describes everyone who dates nowadays, you know, and then like, you know, the more options you have, the taller the guy is, the more attractive the people are, the more options they have, and they get a little spoiled with their options and

they don't please themselves and they become a little, you know, insensitive or make excuses and everyone's looking for the next best thing, you know, and that's, that's the situation you're dealing with. So you just have to get better at asking questions, slow down, check in. And yes, you, you, you cannot eliminate being discouraged when it comes to dating in 2024. So the best you can do is to take breaks, slow down, and just try to be more honest with yourself. I'm in my enforcing era. I know it. I love that for you.

All right. Thank you. All right. Well, hopefully this was helpful. Incredibly, incredibly. Thank you. All right. Well, we would love an update.

Nothing really specific because you're just kind of dating, but like, let's check in in a couple months and see if you've been able to make any positive changes in your dating life. Here's fucking hoping. open i think i think you'll be fine you got this sis all right take care all right thank you all right bye-bye all right kylie uh great

job by the way thank you it wasn't as scary as i thought it was gonna be net had to step out it's getting a little warm in here you're working her to the bone literally until the last second. How dare you do that? I'm trying to clock out. This man won't let me. Let her on maternity leave already. Come on, Nick. Where's HR? I'm contacting HR.

Send help. So, Kylie, before we got into texting office hours, I pointed out that I get a sense from you that they're still hoping your heart when it comes to Avon. Is that accurate? And where are things now as it stands with you and Avon? So I think this topic is a little hard to talk about just because it's hard to talk about something that I don't know myself. I think I'm just taking things day by day.

I know for me, this period of my life is all about making Kylie stronger. I was, like I said, was in such a poor place when I found this out. And I think a big part of our relationship that we had kind of issues with is he never thought I was actually going to follow through with the move. And what do you mean? Like I am so close to my family and I love Charlotte so much it's my comfort like my comfort space so he never actually thought that when it came down to it I was gonna pack my bag to move there you know this because he said this to you yes he basically throughout our relationship literally from the time he went to paradise to an argument literally two weeks before we officially broke up it was hard for me because I was in his space. I'm like, I am. But you told him that. I don't understand. That's like,

I think it was kind of annoying to hear him say that. Absolutely. Because I'm like, I don't know what more I can do to prove to you. I can't. Unfortunately, I'm waiting on two other roommates to move with me. So if it was just me, I'd pack my bags up tomorrow and go, but I'm not at that place right now. So I am so glad to say that even after all of this, and even though he believed I would never do it, I am moving to San Diego the last week of January. Oh, wow. And that has nothing to do with Avon? Nothing to do with Avon, all about me and my personal growth. Okay. I'm moving with Jess from The Bachelor, as well as Kat will be moving down there too, I know. Kat?

A lot of people have a lot to say about her, but she will be there too. What do you have to say about Kat? I love Kat as a person. I think I know her. I know her ways. So I just, I have become immune to how she acts. Well, you say that like as if, oh, this is Kat being Kat. But do you feel like, question, do you feel like Kat just got a completely bad edit?

Or do you think she has some behaviors that she demonstrated that possibly she could work on maybe? Oh, absolutely. And I think it's good because she can own up to that herself. She is not in delusion where she's like, how I acted on there is perfectly normal, perfectly fine. I'm good to go. I think she saw her behaviors. She's in such a better place now, even post breakup. She just became a licensed nurse practitioner. She's moved to San Diego tomorrow. So she has already had so much growth. And I think everyone can change. It's just having the ability to want

to do so and I think Kat wants to be a better version of Kat when was the last time you spoke with Ava a couple days this morning a couple days ago I I think out of even though he doesn't I he doesn't deserve anything from me I think that's not about deserve you know we know that but I guess it's more question is let's your like how's my mom how do you feel about it maybe it's not she's I I have um I want to not like him a lot but somehow I have a lot of sympathy for Ava because I I do truly feel like that um he was broken. My take is I think he truly didn't take the relationship seriously.

He did what he did, and then it was too late. And then the last couple of months, things got really great between them, and he really felt like, okay, this is it. But he had already done what he had done. So you have a little empathy for him. I do. Mom said she wants to hate him, So you have a little empathy for him. I do. Mom said she wants to hate him, but you're not making excuses for him, but you can at least empathize that he recognizes his mistake, maybe?

That's right. I feel like everybody deserves grace in their lives. And if we were all held accountable for our mistakes in our lives, it would be a terrible thing, but he's as long as he grows as a human, not just for Kylie, but as, as a better version for himself, then I think all of this was everything that happened was worth it. Okay. Do you want to get back together with Ava? Gun to my head right this second not in this moment i think yeah but that's not really what i asked you know i'm trying to dance around the question what i'm hearing is from you as i recognize i shouldn't get back together with him yes yes

i have that's not what i asked do i want to get back together with Avon right this second? Do you hold out hope that he's doing the work he needs to do so that it would be safe for you to give him another chance? Yes. But do I know if I could ever get back to that space? I'm not sure. I feel like... Is he still trying to be with you? Actively, yes. But I think that's not fair either.

I will say, so some things had happened. I found out. And then the night I found out, I literally had a panic attack. And I was crying so hard. The only thing that provided me happiness in that moment was talking it out with him. And then I left for the Dominican. He obviously didn't come. And I was like, this isn't healthy. We need I left for the Dominican. He obviously didn't come. And I was like,

this isn't healthy. We need to cut off all communication. And so for a whole week while I was out, I was able to kind of unplug, completely disconnect myself from him and really cope with the fact of being lonely. I was surprisingly fine coming out of that. I think he expected me the second I landed in Charlotte to text him. I didn't. He ended up circling back the next day, just checking in. And then I found myself in that rabbit hole all over again. So I think it's just trying to find a healthy boundary. I need to move. I need to set up this life for myself cross country. And then I think it all is just about time. And then if I see he's found himself in a space where he's a better version of himself.

Also, too, what I worry about is this is still pretty fresh. So he's still upset. He's still coping with the fact that he lost me. Is he this strong willed about changing because he's caught up in the moment and six months down the road is he still going to be this new version of himself yeah i mean you never there are no guarantees there's no guarantees i mean the important thing is whatever he is doing and hopefully it's enough to work on himself right that he doesn't stop doing that once he senses he's getting closer or gets you back or something to that effect. Yeah.

Because we're never finished products. No, no. If honestly, wholeheartedly, if not for myself, I hope he changes for him and for another potential partner. I do feel like he has it in him. I just don't know if I can ever get myself back into that space of being completely in love with someone, but still worrying about when they walk out the door, what they're going to be doing. I mean, I've heard San Diego is a small little town. I know. And, you know, bachelor nation.

A lot of bachelor people there. Yeah. It's not an if, it's a when you two run into each other at the bars. Absolutely. What do you think you're going to do? Or, I'm down the or uh i'm down the street like what's up what you're doing look at some coffee you know like it is gonna also too he's a you know you see him at a bar he's with a lady oh that's gonna sting as much as i want to be like

cool girl kylie like you effed me over screw you like I don't care what you do at the end of the day I love him and I still do hold so much love for him so that would be hard and he is also he is a part of my comfort zone just because I'm going to be so far away from all of my family and friends it's going to take strength for sure yeah and it's going to be yeah and it's going to take strength on to let And it's going to be, yeah. And it's going to take strength on to let that little toxic side come out when it's late at night, you had a few drinks and you see with a girl and you're just like, you're, you know, you pull, you know. I like to say I'm strong, but that's going to take the ultimate strength. All I can say is

time will tell. I can't see into the future. I don't have a for sure answer right now. And I think that's fair just because i said my life was literally swept out from under me and i'm having to completely totally regroup completely starting from scratch so just give me grace that's all i ask just give me grace i appreciate you the rest of the world i'm not sure but fuck them yeah i like that mindset all right they don't know who you are you know that's true at the end of the day they don't have to wake up with him in their bed every morning so it's what i have to keep telling myself but then again i just don't know if i'll ever be back are you anywhere close to maybe dating so honestly no i will say i've had some people circle back um someone in particular

that i had a bachelor nation no no bachelor nation guys good for you yeah even as the i always said told myself that even would be i'd only like be with one bachelor nation person because once you start like dibbling and dabbling it's just like, yeah, it's a really close circle. So I'm just like, also, can I do one thing really quickly? Do whatever you want. Can I debunk the Blake rumors? I don't even know what they were. Oh, oh yeah.

Yeah, please. Now I finally have a platform. To be clear, I actually defended you on that thing. Thank you. I was critical of you. Yeah. I mean, watching it back, one thing I do when I'm uncomfortable I smile

and so in that car scene I'm like we're really close and I'm like smiling it's it's it's a character flaw of mine I look really flirty but like in that moment I'm like I don't really know what I'm supposed to be saying here I'm supposed to be doing so I get it like you had every right to be skeptical I was like she is sprinting Blake. And I have not seen her have one conversation with him. She's a runner. She's a track star. She looks like she's on tears that he's leaving. What is going on right now?

But Blake was like the, he was the veteran in that world. He was older. Blake's a mature, well thought out guy. I was Blake when I was in paradise. You can bond with those people and i'm guessing he was a bit of a support system for you absolutely and your support system was getting in a van and you were fucking sad about it you know exactly no and two i'm really close with jess like girl code through and through um like you said we just had a really close connection

more so of a friendship um he was someone i always vented to he vented to me about jess and i was not running after him because i wanted him um i know it appeared that way but it's fine everything's fine but i just wanted to finally be able to debunk that myself first because even in some of his little interviews he kind of left the door open and i'm like blake stop leaving the people guessing like you know why was he doing that you have a big ego i understand but like you know what this is he's just out in africa saving some yeah he's you know tracking the penguins with his little bracelet but but yeah i i did someone who i talked to prior to diving in the Bachelor world has circled back, and he will be in San Diego training for a little bit.

Training? Sounds like an athlete. No, never that. Disgusting. Yeah. We don't like athletes. What are we training for? Maybe football, yeah. What team?

No, we won't get that. No get that no no i mean you know they they get traded all the time so yeah and they train in different facilities yeah there's no telling what team will end up on right but honestly i am not at a point in my life where like even being intimate with someone right now is so like i'm so turned off by that idea i just because i gave so much of myself to aven it's just, I don't know if I have that energy in me right now. Is he on your close friends? No, I deleted my close friends. I was like, I don't know.

Do you still follow each other? Who, Avon and I? No, I unfollowed him. He still follows me. It was just like quick reactions. Like that night, posted it, unfollowed, uninvited myself from the collaboration. Like I was just like, I'm done. And I'm just like, what are you going to do?

I was being rash. You shouldn't have. You're protecting your mental health. You don't want to see them. You do not have to follow someone who cheated on you. I know. You don't have to apologize for that. You don't even have to explain yourself.

Thank you, Nick. Anything else you want to say before we let you go? I would say for any woman that is experiencing something like what I just went through, never blame yourself. I think I found myself when I was like, well, what could I have done better? How could I have been a better partner? Like what more could I have provided? And at the end of the day, unfortunately, that was just a personality flaw with an Aven. And I literally could not have given any more of myself. So never underestimate yourself and ever question yourself like you are enough. And that's something that I had to keep reminding myself throughout all

of this. Well, thank you for sharing. Oh, and I'm sorry I hit you on this, but the question just popped in my head. Did you fact check at all with the girl in, was it Boston? No. So one thing I've always told myself is I would never come to anyone as a woman. I just like, I don't know. I don't think it's like beneath me, but he is the one who owned up. He did come clean. He came clean.

He made it easy for you to trust that he was. I mean, it would be weird if you reached out to her and she's like no what are you talking because like why would he say that yeah yeah and i guess i mean yeah and i guess the way he did handle it made it easier i'm guessing for you to believe that was all yeah and at the end of the day it was already a lot right yeah at the end of the day like do i need to know every gruesome detail no at this point ignorance is bliss what i will say about that situation i'm not like with the la girl she had no clue about us being together she didn't even know that he was going on paradise she found out through commercials and she found out that throughout the show that we were together and then she found out at the end that we were publicly like in a relationship but the boston girl i lose yeah

i lose a little respect with that because woman to woman if you know someone's in a relationship how dare you so my guess is she whether true or not would say that even downplayed yeah and that's fair but that's that's fair i guess but if i know someone is actively with another person, I would never choose to go after their man. I guess that's just me, but. Okay. Kylie. Nick.

Thank you very much for your time. Thank you for having me. I had fun today. We wish you nothing but the best. Congratulations on your move. Thank you. I hope it goes great. Thank you so much.

And whatever happens between you and Avon, I hope that you're very confident in your decision. I appreciate it. That's what I hope for you. I need that. So thank you. Okay. Well, thank you guys for listening. I hope that you enjoyed this episode. If you are new to the show, subscribe, tell your friends, all that fun stuff. Send in your questions.

AskNick at TheVileFiles.com for all things texting office hours. Ask Nick mediation. You know the drill. Bye.