The Viall Files - E698 Ask Nick Update Special Episode - Part 16

Episode Date: January 26, 2024

Welcome back to The Viall Files! Today we have another special “where are they now” update show where we give you updates from our past callers to see what’s happened in their situations and relationships since appearing on the show.  Our first caller was originally debating girl code on whether she should warn her ex-husband’s girlfriend of the way he treated her. We advised her to focus on her kid and not get involved emotionally with the ex’s new partner. Our second caller had first called in because he was long-distance dating a girl he met from twitter. They are now broken up… how did that happen and what is he doing now? Our third caller is our most EXCITING update yet. She had originally called in because of pregnancy struggles and planning a family with her husband. We gave the advice to try and not stress too much… and now she has two kids! We also have some written updates - Our caller who was disinviting her friend from her wedding, our caller who wanted to set boundaries with her mom’s relationships, and our caller who was debating having a fatherly figure walk her down the aisle.  To catch up on all of these callers original questions please see the show numbers:   Original Episode numbers for callers: Episode Number: 695 Ask Nick - I’m Attractive, You’re Just Drunk Episode Number: 550 Ask Nick - You’re Addicted to Missing Him Episode Number: 75 Ask Nick - Demi and Deep Dives Original Episode numbers for written updates: Episode Number: 673 Going Deeper with Olivia Flowers Plus Special Forces, Kathy Hilton’s Party, and American Royalty Episode Number: 640 Ask Nick - Everyone Caught Feelings During Threesome  Episode Number: 594 Vanderpump Reunion - Final Thoughts “When you are ready, make sure you’re embracing the things that are fun.”  Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://www.viallfiles.supportingcast.fm  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  To Order Nick’s Book Go To: http://www.viallfiles.com  To advertise on the show, contact [e-mail] or visit https://www.advertisecast.com/TheViallFiles  Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @alison.vandam @dereklanerussell

what's going on everybody welcome back to another exciting episode of the Vow Files Update Classic Edition. I am your host, Nick, joined by my trusty sidekick, Allie Martin. How are you? Wow, that was so beautiful. I did, my sister called me last night and she goes, hello, old faithful. And I was like, oh, great. It's just integrating its way into my personal life.

Is it old faithful or old faithful like ole or old like oh well like apostrophe yeah right you know what i didn't realize i had a whole debate with the rest of our team last night you know like the saying like this does not this make like a swallow does not a spring make like you're talking to the wrong guy but sure yeah i get what you're saying but you know what i mean like yeah a blank does not like a bouquet does not a spring make like you're talking to the wrong guy but sure yeah i get what you're saying but you know what i mean like yeah a blank does not like a bouquet does not a wedding make like one sure does not i'm phrasing like that i'm somewhat familiar no one everyone thought i like had a typo they were like what are you talking about no you need to flip it and i was like you sound like yoda yeah i just didn't realize people didn't speak like that people

don't speak like that but it is a phrase i get yeah and then i think people were extra confused because i did comment it as you and then i think people are like nick screwed up well yeah if they if they think it's for me talking they just assume that i can't speak which would be so i deleted it because people were getting too confused well we have an amazing episode for you uh i know you guys love those updates, and we saved a good one for all of you, you know? Not just the Vile Files Plus faithful, as we like to refer to them. But if you are missing out on more and more updates,

do not forget to sign up for Vile Files Plus because we got some good ones for you. Our dear friend, that update, she has two updates for you, guys. She's out there. A lot of other great ones that you guys have been thirsting for are available behind Vile Files Plus, so be sure to check that out. Just go to VileFiles.com.

It's free to sign up. You get a free seven-day trial. Check it out. What do you have to lose? Literally nothing other than pure, wonderful entertainment. I'm really excited about this episode. You guys are going to love it, especially our third caller. Our third caller is someone who gave an update. They originally called in like 2019, way back when, long before probably many of you started listening to the show. But I don't even want to give... It's a beautiful... It's a wild story. It's a feel-good

story. We have a nice clip for all the people who don't remember her, or even if you were listening to the show, it was so long ago. We'll bring you up to speed with a clip. So you're going to love this story. It's so good. It really warmed my heart. And if you have questions around a little teaser, questions around surrogacy, because that's just wild stuff.

It's still, to this day, even though i know it's a thing that exists and you get your kardashians and your peers hiltons and then like well our caller just the normies the normies are doing it too you know it's a rather it's a relatively shockingly affordable thing i mean by affordable i mean like if you would have told me this was millions of dollars because it seems so crazy in a way, right? It just seems like surreal. 10 years ago, 15 years ago, I don't know when this started, but the whole surrogacy process seems like a science fiction movie sometimes. but I'm fascinated by it. That's all I want to say. There is a surrogacy in part of the story, but it's just a really great, wonderful, good story. And if you have any questions around surrogacy, what that's like, you'll get at least some of your questions answered. But I was fascinated. What I think is interesting is I just pulled up some surrogacy information and from laurelfertility.com, typically the insemination to impregnate the surrogate mother with the male partner's sperm

this procedure is typically less demanding and less expensive when compared to ivf yeah because ivf is extremely expensive too yeah yeah i don't know much about either but it is crazy it's just i think part of it is just having to find the right person but there's it's also like an industry like there are there are women out there who are like, yeah, I'm ready to have your baby. It's like a job or at least a part time job. But anyways, it's fascinating. You know, science, the power of life. And I don't know what you guys all believe in.

You know, I don't know what God you worship. If you worship a God at all, if you believe in the horoscopes or the stars or voodoo, whatever you believe in, this story will make you feel like there is something out there. The universe or whatever has some sort of power. It makes you believe in something more than just random randomness. I don't know. It's crazy. Love. Anyways, I'm excited for you guys to listen to it. We do, before we get to our callers, have a couple of writer-inners. We're going to start with one before we get to our first caller take it away ellie yes so this was our caller riley who joined us on episode 673 which was our episode with olivia flowers um she was the sweating the wedding caller who was saying i just

got engaged i need help telling my friend that not only is she not going to be a bridesmaid she's not invited to the wedding yeah like this girl was under such she really thought she was like, can't wait to stand up in your wedding. And she's like, oh, no, we have we are not that close. It wasn't like it was a falling out. It was like a crazy presumption of a friend that they were closer a few years ago. Weren't they college friends or something? They kind of lost touch. But this one friend just assumed that they'd be in their wedding. Yeah. So anyways, what's the update? Yeah. So Riley writes, I started writing my update to you, but it's turning into a novel. In the meantime, I was able to cut my response down to cliff notes. Thank you guys for the

advice. I can promise this won't be the last update since the one I have right now is small. I did end up writing the letter to my ex best friend. I haven't read it to her or sent it to her. It felt more of a way to get my feelings out for now. I'm going to see her next weekend in a group setting and most likely with my friend Kaylee in a few weeks, just us three. Kaylee is the close friend that's also involved in this situation, just not as deep as me that was discussed on the phone call. I don't think the group setting will be an appropriate time to tell her how I'm feeling and it doesn't feel right to share this letter with her over the phone or FaceTime. She's recently been reaching out to me to hang out, and I've agreed because I'm curious

how it will go. I want to try to go into the situation open-minded to see if she's changed in the last seven months. Part of me feels I need to stop building the situation up in my head. I'm still struggling with breaking up with her. A huge part of me just wants this to fizzle out and not address it head on, but I know that's not right. I want to see how things go with just her, Kaylee, and I first, and then determine how I address it from there. Regardless, I know I do need to share all of my thoughts and feelings with her at some point. I feel like I'm attempting to protect my peace by procrastinating this, but that's counterproductive because I know it's always going to be on my to-do list in the back of my head until I do. I'm in between completely cutting her out of my life or just coming to terms that we can still be friendly, just not best friends.

So is she debating inviting her to the wedding? She doesn't specify, but I'm like, if I don't know, if you're so friendly, I don't understand if there, if she is setting plans to hang out with this person, either one-on-one or maybe, especially if it's in a small setting, how is she not invited to the wedding? Cause then it's like, then it's not even a,

it's not even what we started with, which is how do I not invite her at all? This seems more like at some point you're going to have to say, hey, you're not the wedding party. Numbers not working out. Can't wait to see you there. Come to the bachelorette. If she doesn't want to go to the wedding, she should just like cut her off.

You're hanging out with her in group settings and you're making other plans. Would it be that much of a crime if she comes to your wedding? I will say, too, it sounds like Riley is maybe trying to not rush any conclusions. She wrote the letter. She hasn't sent it yet. But she's even said in this update, I'm wondering maybe trying to not rush any conclusions. She wrote the letter. She hasn't sent it yet. But she's even said in this update, I'm wondering and trying to be open minded if she's changed in the last seven months. So maybe, you know, my therapist is always talking like sometimes you click with people

and then you get into different stages of life and you don't click for a while. It doesn't mean they're a terrible person or you're a terrible person. And then you click again. So maybe they'll click again. I've had that happen. I've had I wouldn't say falling out. I guess I'll click again. I've had that happen. I've had, I wouldn't say falling outs. I guess I,

yeah, I guess I've had falling outs with buddies where they were just like annoying me or, you know, they were single and obnoxious.

Kind of distanced myself and then like, they kind of got over their thing and we slowly reconnected and yeah, I got close again. That happens all the time. I just think in the short term,

you might as well just invite her to the wedding at this point. As long as she handles the, you're not in the wedding party, which I don't know. Is anyone that offended by not being in a wedding party? Unless you're like a brother or a best friend. But like, if you're like a friend from however many years ago, I have a lot of close friends. A lot of them aren't at my wedding party. If she handles that poorly, maybe that's a whole different conversation. But if you are hanging out with her in group settings and then you schedule a little threesome hang, you can't not invite her to the wedding. Hey, let's go grab a cup of coffee. By the way,

here, I've been thinking about not going to the wedding. I mean, I'm curious about what's in this letter. It sounds like the letter has to do with her feelings about the relationship. I don't remember what advice I gave her. Obviously, I always suggest people writing letters to kind of articulate their feelings. But that was advice based off the fact that she was going to maybe let her know and just kind of cut it off. Well, even here, she says, I'm still just struggling with breaking up with her. Maybe you don't need to break up with her. Yeah, maybe you don't have to break up with her. Invited to the wedding, not a big deal. What's one more person? Unless she's some total social liability, invite her to the damn wedding. Assuming she's not going to throw a fit and make everything about her because she's not in the wedding party, which who knows, it can happen,

but that would be kind of crazy for them to do. And then, yeah, like she said, I just want it to fade away. You know, you're going to get married. You're going to have a lot going on. You're going to be focusing on your marriage, hopefully. And it could easily just kind of fade away. It's also you can have, again, not only multiple tiers of friends and how deep your relationships are. You can be friends with people where you're like, this person's a lot. I need to hang out with them in a group setting. I don't want hang out with them one-on-one but they can still be in your life yeah and they can go to your bachelorette party or whatever it's not that precious it's just not that big of a deal but wedding party i get like i get being selective there if you can hang out

with them in group settings in intimate settings you can invite them to your wedding and i'm like if you're curious about how she's changed the last seven months, if you're struggling breaking up with her, if you haven't sent this letter, if you're making plans with her, listen to that. It's just way too much energy to be spending on someone you're not going to invite to your wedding. Yeah. You know, you wrote this personal whole letter. There's a lot of people you wouldn't bother to write a letter who will be at your wedding. There's a lot of people at your wedding that if they wake up with, let's say, COVID and can't make it, you won't lose sleep over. Are you worried that'll happen?

Like if someone like the morning of your wedding can't come? Only me and Natalie. That's the only concern I have. No, I mean, if someone else wakes up with covid i would i would be disappointed yeah do you have like a backup like what if it's someone in your bridal party do you have a backup plan gives a fuck what but then the numbers are off who gives a fuck you want to throw someone else in there i'm just saying big picture big picture it maybe maybe all the people listening are like oh my god what do you mean who gives a fuck? But at the end of the day, that is not something I'm going to let ruin the vibe or have me

spend two seconds stressing over because someone woke up sick and the numbers are off. Who cares? I mean, I always realized this, but one of the quintessential moments where I was like, I am my parents' daughter is when before my sister's wedding, my parents went to men's warehouse and bought an extra of every groomsman item in case someone forgot something. That's crazy. But hey. Who forgot their shirt?

My brother-in-law. Yeah. Well, it's nice to be rich. We returned everything. Whatever. That's not something rich people do, Allie. No, that's something prepared people do. Well, some prepared people couldn't even afford to do that even though they returned everything. Whatever. That's something rich people do, Ellie. No, that's something prepared people do. Well,

some prepared people couldn't even afford to do that, even though they returned it. Just saying. Prepare for the worst. Listen, your parents are rich. You're rich. It's amazing.

Good for them. Nothing wrong with that. They work hard. Well, if you haven't noticed, this is episode 698, which means Ask Nick on Monday is 699. And yeah, if you can do math and count,

700 is right around the corner. And boy, do we have an episode for you. I never would have imagined that episode 700 would feature Tom Sandoval and Tom Swartz. Some might say the dynamic duo. Some might say the not so dynamic duo. But either way duo it was a treat it was a little chaotic a lot of fun i don't know if we accomplished what we wanted to accomplish but you will be entertained that much i promise you that is on tuesday for our 700th episode so get ready for that and then for episode 701 we have a very special guest. We're not going to tell you guys quite yet. Mostly because they record on Friday.

We don't like to tease people who we haven't locked in. Until they're in the bank. Until they're in the bank. Until we have that footage. Things come up. I don't know. But we're excited for that one. Another perfectly timed interview, as I should say.

And then we have, let's see, right around, eventually, we got Denise Richards coming up soon, and some other good ones. More, more fun along the way for all you vile, foul stans. Again, as always, we appreciate you supporting our show. Tell your friends, subscribe, rate, review, all that fun stuff fun stuff and like i said if you're thirsting for more updates check out file files plus all right it's time for us to shut up and get to our first caller let's ask nick your sexy questions welcome back noelle Nick. How's it going? Good. How are you? I'm doing well. Last time we spoke, it was a while ago. Episode 550, Ellie? Yep. Almost 150 episodes ago.

But when you called, you were calling in wondering if you should reach out to your ex-husband's new fiance. Is that right? Or what? Right. New fiance. Wondering if maybe you should reach out to your ex-husband's new fiance. Is that right? Or what? New fiance. Wondering if maybe you should be a girl's girl, giving her the tea on all the horrific things that your ex-husband did to you. Yes. Let's play a quick clip for our audience to bring them up to speed,

since it obviously was so long ago of the first time you called and what that was all about i'm wondering if i should reach out to my abusive ex-husband's new fiance to reveal his trail of trauma or I would maybe suggest that you find a way to stop being emotionally invested in your ex. relationship where had I had the option, I would have blocked for my own sake, not necessarily for a reaction or anything like that, just for my own mental health. Um, we have a five-year-old and so I am consistently being related for information from my five-year-old. I'm seeing how it affects my five-year-old, uh, since we split four years ago, he's had literally dozens of relationships. All of them have been involved in my son's life. Oftentimes without him telling me that this relationship, he is in my ex-husband, telling me that the relationship exists. And then I find out later or on social media from friends that my five year old is hanging out with another woman a week after hanging out with a different woman. And they're all being, like I said, playing house right away.

So my son is getting invested in the relationship with this woman. A lot of them have kids. So my son's getting invested in the relationship with these other kids that are being brought into his life just for that to change. Not that long after. And none of them have gotten to the point of engagement. They've been together. He and his new fiance have been together. They were in a long distance relationship for three months before he moved in with her. And it was just a month later that they got engaged. What do you call these women to your son? Dad's girlfriend, usually.

I mean, I typically don't refer to them. He'll tell me about them as dad's girlfriend. Does he understand what a girlfriend is? I don't know. I actually heard him talking at his preschool today. I went and did table time for Valentine's Day and heard him telling his teacher about his dad's girlfriend. And I'm in a relationship now. I've been in a relationship with my boyfriend for two years.

And so he knows that that's my boyfriend i don't think he understands you know the full extent of the relationships it's hard i mean that'd be a good question for me to ask him yeah i don't know i and i i think this is a great question for like a therapist your ex's actions if nothing else have shown your son not to get all that too attached to any of these people he brings in their life. I don't know if a five-year-old is able to comprehend that, but on some level, he's seen women come and go. Are you all that worried about his new fiance? What's your actual concern level for her well-being is he physically abusive abusive is he emotional abusive is it both but um not physical as in well at least with me he would get physical with items

not with me um so throwing stuff slamming things that type of thing. It was never physically abusive. It was everything from, oh gosh, cheating on me emotionally. He threatened to take my engagement ring back the day after he gave it to me. Um, he, and then at one point during our engagement, he lied about having a job for what I found out later was months. So, and I was working from home at the time. Um, was months. So, and I was working from home at the time. Sounds to me like your ex is really insecure with himself and he doesn't like feeling small or powerless. And when he does, he takes it out on the people he claims to care about. I don't know if he cares about anybody. What does your body tell you? What does your heart tell you is the right thing to do? Yeah, it's definitely a little bit of the fuck with him. If I, if you're being

completely honest, that's a, that's, I think that's an important thing to acknowledge and I understand why, but I think, I think we have an answer, but you know, that part of your decision is to fuck with him. And the more you focus on him, the less happy you're, you're allowing him to make you. So go be happy, Go enjoy your son. Go enjoy your boyfriend. Stop letting this guy have power over you. Go make yourself happy because you deserve it. And it seems like you have a lot of great things going for yourself despite what you've gone through.

And that's an amazing thing because it's hard to set yourself up for success and it's hard to recover from terrible situations. And it sounds like you've done a pretty darn good job of that. So good for you. All right. Well, in your own words, what do you remember about the advice I shared with you? What did you do with it? Yeah. Well, you took me by surprise when we first started that I should not be putting emotional investment or energy into that situation and that I was probably more invested than I was willing to acknowledge at the time. And I took your very sound advice in not putting energy and thoughts into situations that didn't serve me and put more focus into investing time in myself and in my son. And one thing you said that really

stuck with me was if there was any possibility of me bringing something to her attention, her not listening, because let's be real, the information probably wouldn't have been taken kindly. And if there was any possibility... She would have been resisting for sure. Yeah. If there was any possibility of that coming up to bite me a little bit or her treating my son differently because I inserted myself into the situation that it absolutely would not be worth it. I've actually applied your, your advice into doing what serves me in many different areas of my life, friendships, relationships, work situations, really trying to focus my energy in and work on myself and the things that do serve me and serve my son and make our life better. Incredible. So how are things with your ex-husband?

Did he end up getting married? Where's the update there? And more importantly, what's the update in your life and how did applying this feedback affect your life overall? Yeah, well, the update there, as much as I try not to pay too close attention to what's going on, obviously it does affect my son's life. So I have to keep a little bit in the know. But abruptly at one point, they decided to pack up and move to North Carolina. He and his fiance, still fiance, they're getting married at the end of February. They decided and move to North Carolina. He and his fiance, still fiance, they're getting married at the end of February. They decided to move to North Carolina. They were there for a couple of weeks. And then her ex-husband, who is the father of her children,

filed an emergency motion to have his children brought back to the state. So that move lasted about six weeks. And so they were involved in some legal stuff on there and none of it affected my son. We didn't change the schedule. He just missed his parenting time while he was gone. It was nice to have him out of my hair for those six weeks, but. So when he moved, they took her kids, but not your son. Correct. Okay. So it's kind of like a mini win. Right.

It was nice, like I said, to have him out of my hair for those six weeks that he was gone. He didn't really call or anything. So it's like I didn't have to be involved at all during that time, which was really nice. They came back due to that emergency motion. She wasn't allowed to take her kids out of the state again. So they decided just never to go back. So we're back on the every other weekend thing. There has been drama with different child support and those different types of things. He's trying to take me back to court. I'm incurring those different legal fees, but I'm on the winning side of it just for the sake of, you know, being the mom and having my son in my life and everything I'm doing is to

advocate for him. And so it's all worth it in the end. My son has not been very happy with the things that go on at their house. So I do have to, you know, pipe up at certain times to, um, advocate for my son and say, you know, Hey, he's really unhappy with this going on at your house or X, Y, Z. And, um, based on her responses, um, one reason I'm glad I didn't reach out is because it does seem like she and my ex-husband are made for each other. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. She sounds like it is toxic as he is. Yeah. Yeah. So, so um given that my son is only there you know every other weekend for two days at a time it's just kind of like an you know an overnight at this point their their parenting isn't too significant of an influence out there in that regard because it's such a short period

of time so there hasn't been too much negative impact. You know, he's always a little bit out of sorts when he comes back for a weekend and doesn't get the greatest sleep. They're staying at her parents' house and my son sleeps on a couch in a basement, which hurts my heart a little bit, but, um, you'll be fine. Yeah. Yeah. It's like a camp out. Yeah. It's kind of, uh, what about you personally? Where are you with your love life? Like, have you been able to care less? You know, like, like you said, it sounds like you've been able to invest less and

less of your emotional energy into your ex-husband and his dating life, other than the fact that you are co-parents out of, you know, and so you have to, out of necessity, what has that brought you in your own life? Yeah. Well, in kind of an unfortunate turn of circumstances, last time I talked to you, I was in a really great relationship with my boyfriend. As we got close to three years here, the last six months, he's been dealing with some things in his personal life and in his friendships and in his job that I think really took a toll on him mentally and emotionally. And that led to kind of an abrupt breakup after we spent a wonderful Thanksgiving together in his hometown. So that really, it took me by surprise, I guess, in the timing, because I thought that we were, you know, going in a, in a certain direction, the direction he

told me we were going throughout the whole three years that we were together. But the last six months, I've really noticed him pulling away, but have been trying to, you know, connect with him through that, just with the attitude of, you know, everyone goes through hard times, right? If we can work through this together, you know, it's, it was really the first challenge of our entire relationship. Things had been going really, really well before then, before this last six months, he was talking to my friends about engagement rings and doing all of those things. But I noticed it became more apparent the farther we got in our relationship that I think he thinks he wanted those things like a future and moving in together and marriage and

kids potentially and those different types of things, but wasn't really willing to disrupt his routine in order to move towards having those things. And we kind of shut down with those situations, just always talk about them like they were in the future. When I'd ask for reassurance and try to connect with him occasionally to just say, Hey, are we still on the same page? Are we still going in the same direction? It's like his attitude was always, yeah, I mean, we're together as if he wouldn't be in a relationship with me if he didn't want those things. And then when he broke up, he said, well, I don't know if I ever want those things at the end of three years together. So it just kind of became a, you know, I'm in a

very different point in my life. I have a now six-year-old to think about. And the only reason I was willing to be as patient as I was, was because he always assured me that he did want those things, but it became apparent that he was disengaging a little bit. How are you feeling about it all? I was really sad at first. I've been doing a lot of reflecting and thinking just about the reality of the situation, not the things that he was telling me we were going to have in the future or what I in my head was romanticizing about having in the future, but really the reality of like, where did he show up? reality of like, where did he show up where, and I, I was putting in a lot more effort than he was. And I think I was really swept away in how we met and, you know, our common interests and the things that we liked to do together. But as far as him stepping up to be a partner and to be a father figure to my kid, that there was really a lot of things lacking that would be essential in having a future with somebody. It sounds like you have approached this breakup a lot healthier than maybe ones in the

past. Yeah. Yeah. Well, even my friends, I do have the best support system. I think anyone could ever ask for. I have the best group of friends that have really kind of helped me move through it. I really have been able to look back at this, like this is truly his loss because I have a great life and I just thought he wanted to be a part of that. And so for him to, to kind of acknowledge that that's not what he wants, I feel like it's his loss and I'm going to have a good life regardless of whether or not he's in it. But I kind of needed a I needed a relationship like this after my relationship with my ex-husband. And they are kind of polar opposites. My ex-husband, we had met, got married, got pregnant and got divorced within three and a half, four years.

And then with my boyfriend of three years, we didn't even get to the move in. We hardly got to the sleepover stage because it just moved so slowly. He always told me he wanted those things. And so that's kind of what I hung my hat on. I know that you were a firm believer that the only good reason to ever move in with somebody is if you're both excited, there's no timeline on it, but if you're both, if you're both mutually excited about doing it, that's when the right time is. And so I kind of was like, I don't want to put a timeline on it because Nick said, don't put a timeline on it. And, but how do you gauge that in a, you know, as I approach new relationships and I trusted what he said, I guess more than his, his actions, where's the sweet spot between understanding

that you don't want to give someone an ultimatum or a timeline or anything like that, but that you are comfortable with the pace that the relationship is moving forward? Yeah. I mean, I don't know if there's a clear answer, right? But I think there's other ways to like check in with your relationship and yourself and your partner and check in with your connection and see how it's progressing in a lot of ways that don't include moving in together. Yeah. You know, so like off the top of my head, you know, for someone, anyone who wants to get engaged to you or live with you is going to be a co-parent as you're a package deal. Right. And that's great. And that's fine. And there's plenty of men out there

that not only will be okay with that, but we'll love and embrace that. But like, how involved is he? You know, does the men that you date in your life kind of take the like, Hey, it's your kid, whatever. Like, I think it's great that you have a kid, but like, you know, I'm not their dad type of energy. That's kind of very kind of disconnected. Yeah. They're nice to your kid, but they're not really investing in trying to get to know

them, you know? Right. Like that is a sign to me that someone's like, maybe not thinking about like, Hey, I could be this guy's stepfather someday. Yeah. You know? And it's one thing to meet a single mother and like have some boundaries early on, you know, that quite honestly, I would think the mother or the father or whoever the single parent would want. But even if that doesn't happen, like the people coming in, you know,

I've, I've dated moms before. Right. And it's kind of people coming in, you know, I've, I've dated moms before, right. And it's kind of like, Hey, you know, before I'm sure about my feelings, I just want to make sure I'm keeping a healthy distance. But if you're in a relationship, if you're talking about the future, then I would think that someone's actions would demonstrate like being more involved with the kid, with their lives. Again, it's like what you talk about. Do you talk about the future more, you know, or do you talk about the future more? Do you find different ways to connect? Are you growing? If all you are ever doing is saying one day, yes, I want this, but all of their actions never show any type of progression, then it's okay to check in with

yourself. It's okay to say, hey, listen, I know you say this and I'm not trying to put a timeline on it, but like, when I think back about like where our relationship is going in the past six months, like we're kind of exactly where we were six months ago. You don't really have a stronger relationship with my son. You know, we don't do X, you know, whatever it is that you'd want, you know, I think you can, you can, you know, I don't think it, it's not just the moving in. It's not just about an engagement. So I'm guessing when you look back, you're nodding your head a lot when I'm giving these kind of examples. And it sounds like all the things that I'm saying that he could have, should have done, he didn't really do in the three years that you dated. So, you know, he didn't get closer with your son in three years.

he didn't get closer with your son in three years. He, you know, he, he wasn't doing more family oriented things with you and your son from time to time that would suggest that this guy is comfortable with the idea of getting engaged to you and automatically being a stepfather to your son. You know, he kept, he kept a bit of a distance, you know, and let's say if like, you know, in your shoes, sure. Like you can almost like your kid can be a bit of a barometer for how serious someone is. But for somebody who doesn't have a kid, there's still ways of checking in with yourself about like, how is this relationship advancing? You know, what kind of conversations are you having? You know, how much are you talking about the future? There's a difference between like talking about the future pragmatically and checking in with you with each other rather than playing house and like making promises about the future about where this could go that you know is different than having more and more serious conversations with each other about what the future looks like you know um those are two different things. Yeah. And when I said, I think he thought he wanted those things. He was very, he was a lot more connected actually to my son and our family.

My family, I live locally with my family. So I'm close to my family geographically and his are a little bit farther away. So a lot of extended family things and, you know, taking my son and I to the baseball game and offering to watch my son while I did X, Y, Z. And so that's why I think I got very comfortable, you know, within the first year, two years of our relationship. And then

they very slowly, all of a sudden I was like, wait, that, that hasn't happened for a while. And this last summer is a personal incident occurred where I am working from home. My son was here. I didn't have childcare. And this is a very specific example, but he's a teacher and never once just offered to, Hey, can I come pick him up and go to the park or take him to lunch? Or do you have any meetings today where you need help?

There was never anything like that. And I think that was three years of dating you who already had a son. He didn't ever have like any one-on-one or alone time or like actually offered to like babysit or to take care of your son. That's telling, you know? Yeah. I got a major ick. I also, my son just celebrated his sixth birthday and we broke up over, you know, over Thanksgiving and he never acknowledged my son as we're having this like conversation about where is this going? Where are we going? Okay. I think we are in two different places. There was never an acknowledgement

of my son during those conversations on his end and then Christmas. And my son just celebrated his sixth birthday. And it's like, he hasn't even acknowledged that my son exists since we dropped my son off with his dad at Thanksgiving. And so it's those types of reflections and those things that are, they're kind of making themselves a lot more apparent now. And since has given me the ick enough to be like, I'm better off and I don't need that in my life. And I tried very hard at the beginning of our relationship, not to force a relationship. It did happen

naturally, but then, like I said, it regressed almost the same way that my relationship with my boyfriend kind of regressed within the last six months. But I was, my ex-husband had a daughter and he like forced me into kind of mom mode right away. Like it was right away. And so I told myself when that relationship ended ended i would never do that to someone else but you yes you would assume that after a year two years three years that relationship would yeah i mean doing it right away is one thing six months in after like clearly being a committed relationship and slowly being more and more involved you know at a pace that your new boyfriend and and his you know the mother of his daughter or whatever

you know it's you know like you're being respectful type of thing yeah it's it's all about balance but listen the good news is is that you clearly have demonstrated like progress in yourself and how you are handling and seeing these things and how you're like in your perspective like you know you're sad like as you should be it's a three-year relationship. You have every right and you should mourn that, you know, but you're also now that it's, you know, we're mid January and you've been broken up for a few months now, you're choosing not to feel sorry for yourself, which you easily could as a single mom, dating is harder, you know, it just, that's just a reality. But instead you're you're just saying hey what can i learn from this

what you know i still have my son that's what matters most you know and yeah it took me three years to figure out this guy wasn't my person but you're still very young you still have a lot of life in front of you and now you're better equipped to get back out there and date when you're ready for it you know and that's what you'll do. And it will work out. I'm nervous to put myself back out there. And I'm choosing not to at the moment. When you do, just try to have fun with it. Again, we all know dating can suck. We know. But there is no point in dreading it and telling ourselves it's going to suck. Because there are fun elements when it comes. It's always fun meeting new people. It is always exciting to have a first kiss with someone.

It is always exciting a little bit to wonder if someone likes you. Yeah, there's a lot of downsides that come to dating. There are fun and enjoyable moments. So when you are ready, make sure that you are embracing the things that are fun rather than making it worse by dreading it and saying how much it sucks or you didn't want this and you didn't plan on being X number of years old and still dating, you know, that's going to do you no good. Yeah.

One thing I read in your book that I thought was really something I should have, I read it before, I read it at the very beginning of when we started dating. And one thing you say in there is that the way someone handles disappointment. How is that said? Like the way someone handles disappointment is very telling in a relationship. And I'm so sorry. In the first two and a half years of our relationship, we never had arguments. He never raised his voice and we never even exchanged tense words. So when you have someone who's a little bit more easygoing or kind of avoidant of conflict so that you don't even end up getting into those situations where they are disappointed, how do you gauge, how would you say gauging someone's

personality and how they handle conflict and disappointment if they're not even willing to engage in conflict? But you're still that is how they are handling it. They are avoiding something. You know, if it is obvious to you that there's a discussion to have, but they're not willing to have it. That is that's information. Yeah. That is how they're handling it. So then you are stuck with someone. Okay. Well, yeah, they're not willing to have it, that's information. That is how they're handling it. So then you are stuck with someone, okay, well, yeah, they're not reactive,

they're not screaming at me, they're not saying, fine, yeah, that's great. But they're also not willing to resolve something. They're keeping you confused as to like, do I have the right to be frustrated? They're being so dismissive of how i'm feeling that it's almost like well am i crazy for even being upset or are we are we okay they act like it's no big deal but something feels off to me but i don't feel comfortable enough talking to them because they never seem to want to address it well that's that is how you know that is how they responded to them being disappointment there's a lot of ways that people can respond inappropriately to disappointment. You know, it's not just being reactive. It could be, again, avoidant. You know, what you want is that balance to do someone who can acknowledge that there

is conflict and someone who says, okay, we're not on the same page. We're not connected. But no matter what, you and I have the same priority. And that is to when we get disconnected to reconnect. When we feel distant, we try to get closer. You know, Nellie and I talk a lot, obviously, about our relationship. We don't have a perfect relationship by any stretch of the imagination. But what we do have is a mutual effort to keep working at it.

And as of now, and how we've always felt, is that even at our worst times of, you know, not being on the same page, we've always felt like the other person wanted to get back on the same page. And that's a reassuring feeling to have, because it's like, all right, fine. We're not where we want to be. But I've always felt like it mattered as much to her as it does to me to reconnect and to figure out when we're not on the same page. And that's, to me, that's what it's about, you know? Yeah. So yeah. Avoidant is, is a, is how they're handling it, you know?

Yeah. I think I got so caught up in, in the beginning because it was so polar opposite of my previous relationship, my marriage. Yeah. Cause he, you know your your ex was husband was reactive and your new boyfriend was more like chill as fuck and you're just like okay it was not yelling at me that's a plus so yeah again you know that's that's the thing it's like you might be at a place in your life like i'm a single mom and i'm more you know how old

are you again 36 36 yeah i'm 36 i never thought i'd be dead you know but you you are acknowledging that you're still learning. Yeah. You're acknowledging that like, I don't have the answers and, you know, and we'll never have all the answers. But the good news is, is that you can still improve upon how you deal with your relationships. And that's progress. So.

All righty. Yeah. That's great. Well, thank you for the update. Sorry about the breakup. It does suck, but it is clarity. It is, is a, I do also say in my book that, uh, rejection is clarity. Uh, you got some answers and this could have lasted longer than it did. Um, and I'm glad that you got some clarity

in this relationship. And now whenever you're ready, you can get back out there and you still got your son and you've set up some healthy boundaries with your, with your ex-husband. So the good news is a lot of the drama that when we first met you, that seemed to find its way into your life. You've done a really good job of being able to not let it seep into your, you know, your, your bubble, so to speak, which is ultimately you and your son. And you've been able to set healthy boundaries and call out behaviors that you're not feeling comfortable with. And it works itself out. Clearly, you were checking in with your boyfriend to the point where he had a harder time lying to himself because up until that point, he was. And so

your progress has been great. So good for you. Well, thank you so much. And so your, your, your progress has been great. So good for you. Well, thank you so much. And congrats on your baby. I'm guessing she's going to be here before soon. Sooner than later. Yeah. Sooner than later. So we'll see. Yeah. All right. All right. Thank you for, for catching up and the advice and yeah, keep working on it. I appreciate it. All right. We'll keep us posted. We'll do it. Thank you so much bye-bye bye-bye do you want a bra that looks good and is comfortable well thanks to third love you can have both you don't even have to choose third love was started to take

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Hold on to your kilts, dearies. Peacock Original The Traitors is back with a new season of strategy, betrayal, sabotage, and murder. This killer season features an all-new celebrity cast that Vulture hailed as reality royalty living in a Scottish castle for the ultimate murder mystery competition.

We're talking fierce competitors, reality stars in public figures battling it out for a whopping cash prize this season's cutthroat missions are next level just like whatever alan cumming pulls out of his brilliantly eccentric wardrobe one thing is for sure these 21 players will do anything to avoid a plot in alan's graveyard find out why critics and audiences alike are raving about the emmy award-winning series the new york times is calling it a murder mystery with clothes to die for and vox adding that it should be your new reality tv obsession we are certainly obsessed stream every episode of traders now only on peacock all right well that was an update uh do we have another writer uh yes um so our next writer inner is our caller

alex um so she originally called in on episode 640 needing help setting boundaries with her mom about her mom's relationship uh her mom is 61 and had been dating this guy for just over a year and had been really up and down on and off. He'd moved in with her and then they got into an argument and she came to a family barbecue, but he stayed home. And she was just like, every time I talk to her, she's in one place. The next day it's a 180 and it's getting exhausting. I tell her she deserves better, you know, but it's just like she's done so much for me, but I can't keep dealing with these ups and downs of her relationship. All right, let's play maybe a mini clip for them. I need help setting boundaries with my mom with her sort of unstable romantic relationship.

They're just on and off. They've been dating for like a year and he moved in at the end of June and has already moved out and then moved back in and left again. He's gone to a different state now and she's like, just doesn't know what's happening with it. And it's all she can talk about. How old's your mom? Around 61. Gotcha. And when you say you need help setting boundaries, are you looking for boundaries like for yourself to set with your mom? Cause she's just kind of annoying

you or are you trying to help your mom set boundaries with herself with this guy so she's not wasting any more time all of the above like what what specifically is the problem that we're trying to solve i think my mom is incredible and she deserves the world and like a non-negotiable for me would be leaving twice. You know what I mean? Yeah. How long they've been dating for? They were dating for a year.

So your mom's only known this guy for a year. Correct. And in that year. And he moved in way too soon. Yeah. But in that year, soon or not, too soon or not, they've lived together twice. They've had too many divorces. Basically.

Yeah. I mean, fully packed up all of his stuff. She, we were at like a different family function and she was watching on her like rain camera. She thought that they were just in an argument and she left and was getting notifications and he was fully moving all of his stuff out. Like he went through the whole house, took out every picture out of every picture frame. I mean, like all I want is for mom to be happy at the end of the day, you know? But now it's sort of like when she's in this relationship, she's gone. And I don't hear from her.

She doesn't, you know, she's fully in it. And then as soon as he leaves or they break up, it's all I'm getting is like texts. And she's coming, like last week, she just like came over one morning. Like, I have work. She can be reactive. And I don't want to. She's already upset have work. She can be reactive and I don't want to. She's already upset about this. Mom can be reactive.

Okay. Because I feel like this is less about your mom and her boyfriend and more about you and your mom, you know, to say that you're calling us and you'll listen to your mom. Your mom has no problem coming over at the butt crack, you know, of the morning. Okay, whatever. But mom has no problem. I mean, I have a job. Yeah.

So mom has no problem knowing that like maybe she's busy with work and she's just going to show up, not even bring coffee. And you are afraid of saying quite literally anything to your mom. And yet your mom clearly has no problem with kind of being curt, almost to the point of rude at times, you know, that person who's just like, hey, I'm just going to be honest, you know, I got to speak my truth. And so there's obviously this huge power dynamic shift, not shift, there's this huge power dynamic disparity between you and your mom. You don't need to like bring you into the equation to like articulate to your mom that this behavior that

she's putting up with is unacceptable. You know what I'm saying? Like this is like baseline would be acceptable for anyone. You say, mom, you've raised me to be a wonderful woman who respects herself and doesn't put up with yada, yada, yada. I'm so grateful the way you raised me. And so I want to pay it forward because I know when I'm triggered and I'm invested in someone, it's hard for me to see the forest or the trees. So I'm just paying it forward to you, mom. Like I'm just basically reminding you of the things that you taught me. I'm reminding you of, you know, standing up for myself the way you taught me to stand up for myself. You know, make sure that your mom feels like

anything you do in your relationship, you learn from her, whether it's true or not, and just almost make her feel like that she is just not seeing it because she's like everyone else who gets emotionally invested in a situation, you know, is not thinking as clearly as they otherwise would. But you're doing this because you love her, you know? And I thinking as clearly as they otherwise would. But you're

doing this because you love her, you know? And I think that's the message that you really need to like really push on her and articulate that you like at the end of the day, mom, I just want you to be happy. And it makes me sad that you're wasting so much of your wonderful energy on this guy who just, you don't deserve to be treated this way. And if your mom is going to get upset at you for saying that, let her. You let her calm down. You let her come back to you when she's ready to have that conversation that you know you're entitled to have. Mom ain't going anywhere. And in the moment your mom realizes that you're able to enforce a boundary and you're able to stay calm when she reacts, that she will she'll come around and you're just kind of reshaping the dynamic with you and your mom's relationship. So Alex writes, Hey, Wi-Fi team, thanks for reaching out.

I did take Nick's advice about setting boundaries with my mom around a number of things. Our relationship has been pretty good for the last six months since I talked to you guys. A week? Interesting. Meet him for a week to talk whatever that week interesting meet him for a week to talk that's a long conversation they are together now and i haven't heard much from her since she's been there other than they were talking and they were there should be interesting to see what she has to say when she gets back i have a feeling that this is going to set her back a while i'll let you guys know what my mom says when she's back from her trip with the guy. Have you ever heard of someone saying, like, we need to go talk and, like, reconnect and figure out what happened?

And it's like, not only will we do it over the phone, I will fly and stay with him for a week and we'll discuss. How old is her mom? 61. I mean, I have just learned this is tough being single in general, and it's, I think, even harder at an older age. Think of all the people who call in, right, in their 20s, early 30s, and I'm always saying, you're so young, you know?

And I'm saying this to them because they say things like, well, I've been with them for so long, and I don't want to start over. We always try to remind our audience of like, listen, let's learn from this, move on. Let's not waste any more energy. But we must acknowledge that it is difficult to move on from people.

And the fear of starting over is real, even if you're 22. So imagine being 61. So it's just harder. And I've seen it firsthand with people who just have a hard time letting go. And think of it, it's very easy for us to, it's very easy for us to settle. And by settle, I mean, like, I don't know, like, whatever. I don't need this. I don't need that.

I just need X, Y, or Z. You know, I don't need a man who, you know, really pays attention to my love language. I just like, I just want someone I can travel with. I have my kids, whatever. I just need to be good enough. I don't even need to be that kind because I don't need to spend all my time with them. I just want a companion that I can talk to three or four times a week. So they start diminishing what they think they can expect or deserve and things like that. It's just hard. So I think the best thing you can do, keep loving on your mom, keep supporting her. I don't think it's going to do much good lecturing her on the decisions she's made that's maybe not helping herself. You kind of almost really have to be,

it's like, you know, like they always say, you know, we die the same way we're born, you know, in diapers, so to speak. I know it's a little morbid. I know it's a little morbid. But I'm just saying, you know, like, I think with 60, 70-year-olds dating, you almost have to, like, treat them

like 18 and 19-year-olds dating because it's, I think it's so scary. And even though they're 60 or 70 and they have all this life experience when it comes to dating, it feels like it's a young person's game and all the technology that's involved now. And so you just have to give them a lot of grace and a lot of support. And I think that's what was so endearing about the season of The Golden Bachelor is watching these people date again, try to fall in love again after having for a lot of them, a lifelong partner that they met in their twenties or like very early in life. And even like the really saddening,

but true quotes of like, once you get old, like people just forget about you. And like, there's not the same like excitement or value put on us at a later age. So I don't know. I think the best thing you do is maybe just let your mom know and just, you know, good that mom's honest to herself. Mom, you didn't go to talk to him for a week. Come on. Hey, you went and you used him for a vacation. That's fine. But let's not, you

know, let's be honest with ourselves about what we were actually doing. You took a free trip. Good for you. You deserve it. You're 61. But you know what you're doing, mom. Unfortunately, that's a sign that this guy has some sort of power over her has some influence and money and can buy his way back into her her mom's good graces by like taking her on a trip and as long as she's emotionally strong enough then you know maybe she could take advantage of that but it's a little tricky but let us know how it goes the weak talk that is required yeah i want an update once her mom home Do we know if this guy has like kids or whatever? I need so much information

about this man. Well, think about it. Like if you're dating like a guy, right? Think of all the fuckboys out there, right? And boys will be boys, right? Even as they get

into their 60s or 70s. So what do you think a man who, let's say, has money and kids already? A guy who's divorced, maybe he's already had two wives. He's got two or three, maybe four or five kids i don't know and money right this is also i feel like this is

also a pattern for them the the really long kind of like regroups because even in yeah the original email it was like he packed up because after he moved in he packed up all this stuff and left then they got together and talked for five hours a remember later they went on a two-week road trip yeah this is their thing yeah yeah it honestly reminds me of a relationship i'm familiar with do you think it's just like sometimes you like i've met people like this where it's like they actually feel more and they feel really fulfilled like scratching the like itch of emotion and like deep diving deep into like problems and issues and trying to resolve it we've all been like that create these situations getting back together breaking up it's intense and intensity is dramatic and drama is fun you

know it's kind of always roots back to the things we talk about but yeah there's something to be said about that it's entertaining entertaining. But think about it. If a guy has grandkids, has kids, has ex-wives and money, how invested do you think some of these men are in actually finding someone they want to settle down with? No, they probably want to be old fuckboys and travel with different women and have fun. I don't know how old this guy is. But if he already has kids, he already has ex-wives, how committed to actually finding a life partner

is this guy? And the reason why he comes and goes maybe is because at the end of the day, he's not. And he is able to, like you point out, have these kind of dramatic reunions every once in a while. So, I don't know.

But at the end of the day day as long as she's safe and as long as she's having fun the worst things in the world all right let's get to our second caller welcome back ryan hey well glad to be back thanks for having me back so uh ryan you were on not too long ago you uh had a situation going on with a lady if i remember correctly a bit of a long distance situation she seemed to be kind of in her fuck boy era if i remember correctly it seemed to be a little bit uh but maybe in your words ryan why don't you bring us up to speed uh about what you called in for the first time we'll play a clip as well but we'd love to hear from you uh what your problem was. What did we talk about?

What was the advice I gave you, et cetera, et cetera? And then what's the update? Yeah. So I called in not too long ago to tell you, let you know that I was seeing a girl who I met originally on Twitter. We'd been friends for a really long time. She had just visited me for a week. I had visited her a month before for a weekend.

And it was very hot and cold, very touch and go. I was more committed, more invested than she was. And your advice to me was to just kind of lean into the environment that she was creating. You said, don't play the games per se, but kind of match the energy that she was giving to me. I did that, and it's over. Okay. Tell us. Well, honestly honestly that's great news you might be sad but uh there's nothing worse fresh okay it happened last week uh last weekend uh a couple days ago really well first let's play a quick clip uh for for the people who didn't get to listen to episode

659 just to get bring them a little bit up to speed. How's it going? It's going good. I am Ryan. I am 26, and I am dating a girl I met on Twitter who also lives 800 miles away. How long have you guys been talking? So we've been friends for a really long time. We became friends like three years ago, and we met through Twitter. We had mutual friends. And then we actually met in person like two and a half years ago. She actually was living in a different city at the time, ended up moving here. We started hanging out a lot. We came really close. And then she ended up moving away. And we still were generally good friends. My relationship that I was in when we met ended. So we were both

single things just didn't work out she ended up moving away i'm still here obviously and uh then over this past summer she kind of started to resurface like on the margins like she would like like my tweets or my instagram stories and i was like okay like this is kind of weird but whatever and then uh she started texting me just like straight up she's like hey like, okay, like this is kind of weird, but whatever. And then she started texting me just like straight up. She's like, hey, like, what's up? Like, haven't talked to you in a while. And she is no longer in that other relationship from last winter. That ended very poorly.

And so I knew she was single again. So she started to hit me up again. And so that cultivated with then I miss you. I miss, you know, having you in my life. And I do feel better about like how I feel about you now. Like, I like you. I want, you know, having you in my life. And I do feel better about like how I feel about you now. Like, I like you, I want to like start talking to you again. And just like this whole and it was really sweet, actually, it was very long. That's like the cliff notes, obviously, but it was like validating almost like to have that apology, like have my feelings validated

almost. And I was like, Okay, you know, I appreciate that. Thank you for saying all that. And, you know, so then we've been talking like every day since then. And that was like, okay, you know, I appreciate that. Thank you for saying all that. And, you know, so then we've been talking like every day since then. And that was like three months ago. I ended up going to see her in her city about a month ago, a little over a month ago. Went great. It was really awesome. Like we spent a weekend together. We went on a date.

Like it was really cool, really fun. And then she actually just left last week. She spent a week with me. So we talked about like what this is kind of and like what this is going to be. That's a great question. Because what is it? Because you're not, it sounds like,

are you guys in a committed relationship or you're just seeing each other or what? Yeah, so I asked her about this when she was here, when she visited me. I was like, so like, what is this? What is this going to be like? Am I your boyfriend? Like what is happening?

And she goes, well, I don't want to like call you my boyfriend because in the past, like I've used relationships as a distraction from my real life. And she goes, well, like we're dating and I go, okay, are we dating? Like, are we exclusive? Are we like not? I go and I said, my cards on the table. I'm not seeing anybody else. I don't plan to see anyone else. Like I like you. I want to be committed to you. you and like that's not really ever been my thing seeing multiple people or talking to multiple people I've never like felt good about that and she goes no I'm not seeing anybody else either and she said this to me she said I don't like doing the situationship thing like I like you I'm not seeing anybody else I said okay so like then what is next and then

this was kind of weird when we were talking about it. She goes, well, you know, if you wanted to talk to other people, like I give you permission, like you can, if you want. And I was like, I just said, I don't want to. I hate that. Yeah. So here's the thing. It's, it's obvious to me and correct me if I'm wrong, that if, if she was willing to call you her boyfriend, you would be more than happy to call her your girlfriend. And the reason that you guys aren't saying that right now is because she's resistant, not you. Yeah, like she is very much like wanting to slow play it.

And I mean, we've only been like dating for like a month ago was when we first hung out for the first time in a couple of years. This has nothing to do with pace because you don't strike me as someone who's trying to push her to go at a pace that she isn't willing to go. And quite frankly, this woman has been involved in your life for a couple of years now. You've been interested for a couple of years now. You have gone at her slow ass pace this whole time. At some point, just be like, maybe you're just not ready for the same thing I'm ready for. Tell her, if I want to date other people, I'll let you know. I don't need your permission. I can just do that.

Yeah. Yeah. She's not your mom. She's not even your girlfriend. I don't need your permission to date other people. I'll do that if I want to. And I'm an upfront guy. If I decide that I want to not pursue you anymore and date other people, I'll let you

know. But I'm not looking for your permission. I want us to move this relationship forward. And we can go at whatever pace that what's comfortable for us. I don't care how slow we go. I just don't want to sit there and like constantly wonder if we're on the same page for whatever reason, she is not taking you seriously. Tell her how you're feeling and what you want and expect from her and make it feel like, listen, honestly, whatever you decide, from her and make it feel like, listen, honestly, whatever you decide, cool. But as much as I like you, I am just getting a little frustrated with constantly feeling confused about this whole

thing. You're great, but this is getting a little much. Okay. Right. So you got off the call with us. How did you feel about what I said? What resonated the most? And what did you do with that information? Yeah. I mean, I felt like your advice was good. I felt definitely like I had not a sense of direction, but a sense of what I should do going forward. And so I just did that. We still talked. We texted here and there. But I definitely pulled back to match her energy a little bit. And then from four days, including New Year's Eve, we just didn't talk. Like there was just no text, no calls, nothing.

And then she came out of the woodwork like a couple of days after New Year's Eve and said, hey, like I was really sick last week. Sorry, I haven't been talking. But also you didn't text me on New Year's Eve. So like, are we fighting? And I was like, she said that to you. She said this to me. And I was like, no, I'm not happy, but like, we're not like fighting per se. And so you said, no, we're not fighting, but I'm not happy. Yeah. I was like, I was like, yeah, like I'm like annoyed, but I'm not like considering that we're're fighting because also how can you fight with someone when you're not talking to them for four days um so you technically didn't take my advice that's okay so i'm getting there all right give me some slack so then she like she texted me she's like okay well because you realize do you realize ryan that in that moment

her saying are we fighting is her just trying to manipulate you whatever she was doing not to reach out to you during New Year's Eve. And it's funny because we've talked about a lot of this recently just because it is the holidays. And there always seems, there is no greater like buzzkill for a situationship or like an early dating situation. It's also like a really good like test to like how strong whatever connection is going on in the holiday break. You know, when people kind of like even it doesn't matter if they're in school or anything like that. I know there's like a natural break when you're in school or college or whatever, but like the holiday break that everyone goes through, whether it's work, they go back home, they visit family. And it's like so many like situationships like just go to die, so to speak, because there's always so much else going on. So whatever she was doing, maybe it was just family.

For her to say that to you, knowing the history of this relationship, that she was always in control. She was the one kind of doing her thing. You were checking in with her more than she was checking in with you. And then the fact that you chose not to check in with her, knowing that there was no expectations for you guys to check in because you're not boyfriend and girlfriend. There's no requirement to do so. She didn't check in with you either. It's not like she reached out and you ignored her. You just didn't reach out. And so she was like, are we fighting? Immediately putting you on the defense, you know? So that's just her manipulating the situation and you. And you kind of took the bait by giving the honest answer, which is that you're irritated, which lets you know that you care and puts her in a position of power. The best thing to do with that situation, it's over now, so it doesn't really matter. It would have been like, well, what do you mean? I'm confused.

Why would I be mad? Yeah. So what ended up happening is I texted her. So when I answered that, I said, yeah, I'm annoyed. It's been four days. I haven't heard from you. Also, you're an hour ahead of me. So New Year's Eve happened for you first.

So why would I be the one to text you first? Yeah. It doesn't even matter. Again, she was just trying to text you first yeah it doesn't even matter she was just again she was just trying to put you in yeah so then she goes oh my mom is leaving uh we've both been really sick but when my mom leaves thursday can i facetime you and i was like fine like sure whatever so a couple days later we facetime and we talked about like at first when we first got on the facetime and she just like immediately like started talking about like nothing, like she was like chit-chatting.

And I was just like, uh, no, like I still want to talk about like last week cause that was shitty. And so we talked about it and like, she said she apologized and whatever. And so like then after that, things were like kind of back to normal, normal by the standards of what they were, I guess. And, uh, like we were talking back and forth. I was supposed to like,

we had plans for me to go there and see her, um, for this weekend that just passed, uh, obviously didn't go, but, uh, so then like, it was fine. Then she like pulled back again. Like I kind of saw the writing on the wall. Um, so then like talked about it with my therapist, like we like kind of came to a plan, whatever. So a couple of days before I was supposed to go to like literally get on a plane to see this woman, I texted her and like we had been texting already that day, but I was like, hey, like, I just want to make sure that like you actually want me there. Like you actually, and she's like, yeah, of course. Like I do blah, blah, blah.

And I was like, all right. Like she, and then she goes on this whole thing. Like you can always ask me for reassurance. I want you to feel good, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I was like all right like she and then she goes on this whole thing like you can always ask me for reassurance I want you to feel good blah blah blah blah and I was like all right cool like just wanted to make sure like that you actually want me to be there like went out of my way to make it a point and then that was on a Wednesday that was on Wednesday Thursday we were texting she was like I'm so excited to see you like we're gonna do this then the other I was like great cool whatever thursday night go to sleep say good night whatever and then i get up like whatever get a glass of water in the middle of the night and i'm like oh let me just like look

at my phone really fast and i didn't have a text from her but i had a text from one of my friends and it just said what the fuck is this and i go well that's interesting so i open it and it was a tweet that she had sent after i went to sleep and i will read it for you the tweet reads as follows move to the city and yet i still have to gravitate towards the one man in the bar who is from boston so this is like 24 hours before i'm supposed to be there and i'm like what the fuck so i sent it to her and i was like what is this like i'm supposed to see you in like 24 hours like what the fuck and she doesn't answer for like a long time like i'm at work on friday she sends me this whole long thing when i was there we talked about how we're not exclusive

i'm single i can see whoever i want i could talk to whoever i want like and then she brought up her instagram story which i never even mentioned and, and then she brought up her Instagram story, which I never even mentioned. And it was like, she was explaining her Instagram story of a text thread that she had posted. Never even thought twice about that, but I was like, okay, whatever. And she was like, you know, I'm single. I can talk to who I want. Like I told you, I was going to prioritize school and my relationships with my friends here. And so like, you can't be mad about me she goes and by the way like i didn't approach this guy he approached me and my friends and we just exchanged chit chat like nothing even happened and i was like all right then like why did you say you gravitate towards this person like that's weird like that's a weird way to say that like before i'm supposed to see you and so like we're beefing like we're set like paragraphs back and forth ends with like paragraphs back and forth paragraphs back and forth. Do we have any of these? Yeah,

I'll read some of them. There was like cliff notes. Can you see how that, like, I was like, I understand what we talked about when you were here. Like, I understand that we're not exclusive,

but can you see how that's a slap in the face for me to read? Like right before I'm supposed to come see you. Like eventually, like she at first was not saying like, sorry about that at all. And then finally she did acknowledge like that was in poor taste. I apologize see you. Like eventually, like she at first was not saying like, sorry about that at all. And then finally she did acknowledge like that was in poor taste. I apologize for that. She goes, you're way more invested than me.

True. And you know, I think that it's a bad idea for you to come this weekend. I go, I agree. It's a bad idea for me to come because if I'm there all weekend and we're like sleeping on the same bed and we're going out and doing stuff together, like I'm going to think that this is like a relationship and clearly it's not. And clearly that's not going to happen. And she said like, yeah, like all I can offer you as far as commitment right now is casual

situationship. And it doesn't seem like you can handle that. And I was like, you're right. Can't like never going to be able to with you, especially like not don't like that, not that type of person, especially when it comes to you. So I was like, it's fine. I'll cancel the flight, like whatever. But then it got weird because then she like started rambling like to herself.

Then like some of the stuff she's like, I'm sorry for not being more clear about my intentions. They're doing things that could be interpreted more seriously than I meant. I still do really like you and want you in my life and never wanted you to feel like I didn't like you or care about you. Not wanting to be in a relationship has nothing to do with you specifically. I know you've never kept me from my career goals or anything. There's just a lot of stuff going on for me. And I know I can't give someone what I feel like is the appropriate amount of care and attention they deserve. I'm sad to not see you, but I do agree is for the best. But this doesn't mean we're never going to see each other again. LOL. I meant take a step back more in the context of you not coming, but I absolutely still want you in my life and want to be friends and talk. I do like you and I just want to protect your feelings and I want you to do whatever is going to hurt you the least.

Then continued. I was like, all right, cool. Did you respond to that? I was just like, okay, like, got it. What exactly did you say? I said, thank you for apologizing. Like, I want to be friends too friends too but like thanks for considering my feelings that's clearly not gonna happen right now i said always gonna cheer for you and hope you achieve

your goals you mean a lot to me too sorry like that this isn't gonna happen this weekend and blah blah and then she said i don't know like then we agreed blah blah not coming okay cancel the flight then she goes on like like this was unprompted i do deeply care for you always and want what's best for you and i'm sorry if i was very blunt and straightforward today i just want to be like very real about where i'm at and i know i said this a while ago but like as far as you thinking does she like me does she hate me romantically or not i do not waste my time on people like i do suck at texting back sometimes but i don't actively keep people i don't like around and you have never done

anything to hurt me. Didn't think I did, but cool. Thanks. And then I said, always here. If you ever need anything happy for you and everything you're accomplishing. You said that.

I said this then. Yeah. I said, appreciate the apology. Glad you were straightforward. It needed to be said. Then again, unprompted.

Okay, just one note, Ryan. What's up? Never tell someone you'll always be there for them. Yeah, that was. When you're, you know. I was being too nice. Yeah, I want to keep hearing it. And I really like you because, you know, you remind me of me when I was, you know, earlier in my life.

You're built slightly different than the average guy. How tall are you? 6'2". Oh, my God. See, you guys can't see Ryan right now, but he's a handsome, dark-haired, great beard guy. He's 6'2". I didn't even know that.

I'm looking at him. So he's 6'2", super attractive guy, but he has a heart, and he's a sweet guy. And he's going to therapy, cares. And here you are being taken for granted by a fuck boy who just happens to be a woman. You like her. You know what you like, right? And you know that you like her right now. And you are in a position in your life, maybe it's because you're in therapy, maybe it's just because this is where you're at. You've had enough enough of relationships the past that didn't go the way you are maybe you just fancy

yourself as a one-woman guy who never really had a massive fuckboy era but she is going through that right now and at the end of the day she does like you you know that's that's why she keeps saying shit like this that you see as confusing that's not really confusing. She likes you, but, but is the operative word being like what she prioritizes more than anything right now is her own independence. She recently moved to a new city. It sounds like based on her tweet. And right now she just wants to be selfish. I don't know her dating history, but my guess is that she's probably dealt with some fuck boys of her own. And when she says, well, you never really hurt me, that's not... You're like, oh, I knew that. I didn't need to

say that. That's her projecting other men in her life who have hurt her, my guess, is my guess. And she's acknowledging that despite maybe other men in her life, you haven't done what so many other men have done to her, which has hurt her feelings or make her feel used. And you're unfortunately just on the receiving end of her, we're just prioritizing herself right now, right? And then you're capable of, you don't need to like shop around to verify your feelings towards her. And she does, right?

She likes you, but she also doesn't want to commit to you, doesn't want to have to not tweet about an experience when she goes to the bar. She just wants this ultimate freedom. So anytime you're responding to someone like that, that's, again, about trying to take control and power back in the situation. You got to almost, again, take a step back and think about it from the position of how I would see it, right? Where it's just like, you're secure and comfortable with where you're at. You happen to like this person, so that makes you feel a little bit out of control. But what you are in control of is what you want for yourself in your life. How old are you again?

26. You're 26. So you're still relatively young, but you have a good job. You live in a cool city. You're taking care of your mental health through therapy. You got a lot of shit figured out. And you might go through a period of not feeling like your best self, but the fact that you are have so many pieces in your life put together that you'll deal with your shit if shit goes south, so to speak. You're already dealing with it now. You have a nice support system.

So when you are dealing with people who aren't, when you talk to them, you have to come across as like, again, it's more like, hey, listen, I get it. It's fine. I just know what I want. And that's how you can piss her off. It's just like, listen, I get it. You're just at a point in your life where you're only capable of prioritizing yourself. And you can say, I'm not trying to even be a dick. I've been like that, but I get it. And right now, I'm at a point in my life where I am capable of pursuing people I really like, and you're just not in that position. So no hard feelings, but you're right. We just shouldn't hang out because you're just not in that position right now. You know what I'm saying? You got to talk to her as if like you were giving her advice that she's not asking for. It would just piss her the fuck off. You set a boundary. You didn't handle it perfectly. You know what I'm saying? You let her, you almost gave her too much power. But the fact that you did stand your ground, you didn't wallow and complain. You did try to, you did say, Hey, listen, do you really want me to come out here?

I have expectations. I like you. And that took power for you to say. It took guts. And the fact that she's pulling away, that's why she's panicking because she does like you. She doesn't like you enough, so to speak. So don't give her access to you now. So what she's going to do in the future, she's going to try little things to hang out or check in. And she's going to want to see if she can still get you to respond. And the best thing to do, because you obviously still like her, you haven't gotten over her. And honestly, she might come around. She really might. But to come around, you're going to have to be very tactful you're basically gonna have to mostly ignore her and then when you do respond be like hey it's good to hear from you like again like it's just

like you have to backtrack and i'll always be there for you or yeah we'd love to be friends and it's the classic hey listen it's like nice to hear from you but like like i said like i'm i got too many friends i'm good but thought of, I didn't think of you as just a friend. You know what I'm saying? So it's like, it's not saying, oh, why can't we be friends? It's, I didn't think of you as just a friend. Of course you were friends with her. You're, you know, you'll be friends with whoever you end up dating. You know, they'll be your best friend, but they're not going to be just your friend. And it's that, it's the, why can't we be friends? No, it's that we can't be just friends. We've had sex together because I like you. I think you're pretty because I'm around you.

I feel chemistry, all those obvious reasons that she's going to play dumb to. So if she does reach out and you ever feel like responding, you just have to say, hey, listen, it's more, I have things figured out and I want to spend time with people who also have things figured out. And I think it's great that you're figuring it out, but I'm just not in a position to be in your life while you're figuring things out and already have things figured out. Yeah. And that will piss her off, but it'll piss her off in the best possible way. Yeah. And I think like you said, like the panicking, like I think she started to panic like as it was like, as like, because even like you say, like, she starts like reaching out or saying like, whatever,

like, let's hang out, whatever. Like it started even in this conversation. Cause then she like continues to just talk unprompted. She's like, I know I said we should take a step back and I do think so, but I'm not, not attracted to you sexually. Like we don't have to sit here and be formal friends. I do want to do whatever's best for your feelings and i feel like we should take a little step back so you can kind of reset but don't feel like you can never text me like we should make out i don't know why that feels so awkward to say because it's weird and that's my aunt yeah she i mean not only does she think you're good you know she likes having you around if if she was in the right place for a boyfriend she would totally date you but right now she's how old is she uh she's a year older than me so 27 okay so

like she probably kind of hates a little bit that you're younger she also you know feels very in control you know she is definitely just wondering if you're good enough that's all it is you know she thinks you're pretty good but she there's a her ego thinks she can do better is the god's honest truth otherwise she'd date you she's shopping around and it's not just you part of her is just like no one would be good enough right now the only person who would be good enough for her right now is someone that would absolutely blow her like you know what i'm saying someone that she thought would be like i can't believe they like me it would have to be her white whale. And that doesn't work out, right? Because that person would just fuck around with her. And she's unfortunately

going to have to figure out her shit. She, you know, she, she almost needs to be put in her place with someone before she appreciates what she would have with you. So the best thing you can do is just not play into her little games. Keep in mind, every time right now she's reaching out to you, it is not about anything other than making sure she can get you to respond. It is just about making sure she can still get access to you, that you're still there on some level. You know what I'm saying? That's all it's about. It's not about anything else. So stop acting confused.

Stop trying to break it down with your friends. Don't send screenshots to your five girlfriends and be like, what does this all mean? That's what it means, is that she knows that she doesn't want to cheat on you. She doesn't want to be a terrible girlfriend to you, but she likes you. And what she really wants right now is her independence, her freedom, the ability to do whatever she wants, the ability to have sex with you, have you come visit, to play house once in a while. But when you're not there, when you're in Chicago and she is wherever she lives, she wants her freedom to do whatever the fuck. And that's her main priority. And she's going to try to have her cake and eat it too.

And she's going to come up with all these different reasons why it's okay and yada yada, why she can do what she does with you but still have her independence and it is all okay it's just up to you to decide whether what's okay for you or not and she's trying to convince you to be okay with what she wants and that's what it's all about right and the more calm you can be and the more just like sure of yourself and not play the game of trying to understand her i don't think she's deliberately trying to be confusing, but that's the benefit that the fuck boys have and the fuck girls or whatever

is to get you to spend your emotional energy with your pals and your girlfriends trying to figure out what they mean by what they do or say. Because while you're busy figuring it out, you're emotionally invested in them. Yeah. And I was, because I went out with my friends, obviously, since I was here, and they were asking me what happened. And my roommate's girlfriend asked to read the text. And I was just

like, yeah, I know she's going to, I know, Nick, I can feel it in my bones. In three weeks, she's going to text me and want me to come visit again. Like just, just like from the phrasing of like, Oh, a reset for you, a step back as far as this weekend. And I'm just like, I'm never going to be there. Like I'm never going to be able to just do that. Like it's, but, but here's what you have to say, you know, like, don't sell it as like, you're a good guy.

You don't have to put out there that like, that's just not who I am. I'm not that type of guy. You know, like now I almost want you, it's not about you being the nice guy or the good guy. You know, you are, that's all that matters because with her, that's not going to work with her. You know, you are this, the guy who's realized that in the nicest possible way, you're just kind of above her little games that she's playing. You're just like kind of over it, you know? And so that's what, you know, you don't stop saying, it's just not who I am.

You know, I'm not like, I don't do stuff like that. You're just more like, listen, I just don't have time for the back and forth. You know, it's just forth. It's too whatever. If you were in a position to be in a serious relationship, because listen, I like you, but you're not. And that's okay. It's totally okay. I'm okay.

Trust me. I'm really fine. But I'm just not interested. You got to use words like that. I'm not interested in what you're interested in. Because that's being powerful. You saying things like, well, I don't think I could handle that. You know, ask yourself, anytime you're texting her back, does it sound like you're in control? Or does it sound like you're trying to appease her or making her feel comfortable? Because,

you know, as a guy and being a nice guy, the nice guy that you are, it's in your nature when you respond to be a gentleman, to be a nice guy, to always make sure that she's feeling comfortable. And I don't want you to lose that. I'm not trying to take that away from you. I love that you are a nice guy and that's who you should be. But you can be a nice guy and still let her know that you're a man who knows what he wants, that is confident in himself, that doesn't have time to be wasted on people who aren't sure of themselves. And especially as a guy who's a little bit younger than her, giving her the type of energy that you have your shit figured out and you just don't have time for her antics is the energy you want to bring to her. Always read through your text before

you send it. Words like, well, I just don't think I can handle that. That would be too difficult for me, et cetera, et cetera. Don't say any of that shit. I don't have time for that. It's not convenient for me. I've been there, done that. I'm just not in that place. I think you still have things to figure out. That's okay. I've been there before, but it's shit like that which is all true and you just politely and nicely point that out that you are in a kind of a higher mental emotional state than she is right now and she can get there but you know until she does you don't have time for it yeah that's like definitely the better way to friend like i don't have to like i just don't have time for it like it's it's exhausting i don't want to like waste my time i'm like yeah that like and listen yeah like i'm good you're only

texting her so like proofread this shit and you know you don't have to rush to respond you you know and reread it how does it sound how do you read it out loud to yourself it's just these few key phrases that when you're so you always want to make it like and it makes you a great guy you always want to make sure that she feels comfortable. That's a great quality to have. And it's in your nature when you respond and never say anything that would upset her or frustrate her, but it's okay to upset her. It's okay to frustrate her with the obvious.

Don't say anything to hurt her feelings. Don't say anything to be mean, but you're just pointing out that you're going to be okay, that you're fine, that you're ready to be in a relationship with the right person. And clearly she's not. And until she is, you just don't have time to fly to Boston to get laid. There's plenty of women in Chicago. Don't say that.

But you're not saying like, I just... You can say like, listen, there are plenty of people in chicago for something casual i'm looking for something a little bit more meaningful so like a casual long distance thing is this not for me yeah like like i'm way good on that like if you want to like if you like me and you want to be invested great but like otherwise like i'm way good i don't need to like to waste my time otherwise yeah and don't say things like way good or very you know just ask yourself am i overselling this use the least amount of words and say the least while implying the most, if that makes sense. Yeah. You never say more than you need to. Never try to oversell. It's

always like when you're reading it back, does it sound like, even though you might proofread it and you might crowdsource and you might like take a few minutes, the energy when she reads it is as if you finally got to her text and while driving when you shouldn't have, because you have a million things going on, you finally got to a response and you just didn't have a lot of time to think it through. You just sent it. So it comes across as a little short, a little curt, but a matter of the fact, but not mean. And that's the energy you want. Because yeah, you're right. Clockwork, she'll be back. She'll be back until either one or two things happen. She knows that she finally doesn't have power over you and she doesn't get a reaction from you. And she realized she still doesn't want

to date you. She'll just stop reaching out. Or she'll be like, what the fuck? I want to date this guy. But the more you keep making yourself, the more you give her the idea that you will put up with this bullshit, which up until this point you have. You finally saying like, hey, do you really want me out there is a start, but you have a long way to go before she realizes that she can't maneuver with you. Because these are all just maneuvers. She wasn't worried about your feelings by not having you come out there. She was worried about her feelings and the pressure and obligation of letting you come out and sleeping with you,

knowing that you liked her and she didn't want to deal with your feelings. That's why you didn't come out. It was a completely 100% selfish move on her part. It had nothing to do with her considering your needs.

Yeah. She was thinking about herself, self-preservation. Yeah. So, and listen, we've all been there. We've all done it. We've done what she's done.'s not a bad person she's a selfish right now she's just going through a selfish state and you just have to show her that you just don't have time for that

bullshit that she's you're not one of those people who's interested and being part of this stage of her life and if that stage changes maybe give you a call and we'll see if you're still around but you're not pining over her. You're not sad. You'll be okay. You know, like you're, you're chill. You just don't, it's just more of a, like, it's just a waste of my time. I'm like, wow. You know, I don't need to fly to the East coast to get laid.

I can, I can go to fucking stout in Chicago. Is stout still exist? Yeah. Yeah. You know, like a walk into stout, you're six, two, you got a beard. That's like fishing with dynamite in Chicago. Yeah. Thank you. I appreciate that. But yeah, no, you're right. So that's the energy you don't. And you don't say that you just give off that energy and go out and have fun. Yeah. And you're just like, Hey, what's up? Sorry. I'm busy. But yeah,

I think other than that, like you did, you did a great, like, this is great news. I know you're a little sad and I know you probably would have liked to flounder out and probably would have missed, you probably missed the good sex you probably would have had. But if you do end up with this girl, and that's a big if, this will happen a lot sooner by you playing it this way than what you were about to do. Again, why would anyone commit to someone

or accept expectations when the person they're fucking around with isn't demanding that they have any expectations and you know you were saying whatever saying this but the end of the day she's been able to maneuver with you so that she can have her cake and eat it too and you're finally saying eh no and the only thing you need to adjust is that you're not sad and you're not waiting around for her because right now she's like okay okay, he's a little sad. He's a little bummed. And she's like, yeah, you're right. In two to three weeks, she's going to reach out with the energy of saying, okay, I have time for you now.

I'd love to see you. And she is fully expecting for you to jump on that. Yeah. I mean, I know that. I can feel it in my bones. That's going to happen. I just know it. Yeah. But now, between now and then, you need to stop it. You need to stop thinking about it. But don't spend the next two or three weeks waiting for that phone call and analyzing that phone call, thinking about what you'd say on that phone call. Because if you were anything like me, you would. That's what you would do.

You'll think about it 24-7. You stop thinking about it. And I know that's easier said than done, but this is where you policing your thoughts comes in because you can. You can. When she pops in your head, you can say, Ryan, stop it. I know what's going on. There's nothing to understand. There's no why. Stop talking on the apps, because she's on the apps, and she'll look for you on the apps. Probably. Well, that'd be tough.

She can... I guess adjust the location. Yeah. Maybe adjust the location. Maybe make it seem like you're in her city. Fuck around. I do have a friend who lives there, so I did think about still going and just staying with my friend. Okay.

Maybe in the future, but that's way too much energy. That's you trying way too hard. That's you being way obvious. Got to be subtle. Forget about showing up in her feet. Just get on the apps in Chicago. She has friends. It'll get noticed, probably. Either way, what the more important thing is, is that you're getting back out there, that you are in fact accepting her decision for what it is, and you are not acting like a guy who needs the more and the loss of a girlfriend because she never was. And yeah, you can be sad or whatever, but get on the app, start dating. I'm not saying you have to go like on five dates next week, but just like start the energy that you are in fact a single free agent man who plenty of women would love to match with, you know, you're, you're a one, you're a one percenter, you know, you are, I mean, you're just like, you know, you got a, you're 26 year old,

a good looking guy who's tall, who prioritizes his mental health. Like you truly are, uh, in a position that anyone would want. And now you kind of have to act like that in a very humble way without becoming a douchebag or a fuckboy of your own. And you'll feel that energy shift. All right. All right, so get off the phone, get on the apps. All right, will do. All right. Well, keep us updated.

When she does reach out, we definitely want to hear from you. I will let you know. All right. Well, we'll keep us update when she does reach out. We, we definitely want to hear from you. I will let you know. All right. Uh, well, uh, don't feel too down. You played it pretty well,

man. You did a good job. You it's, uh, do you think you would have done that if you had not called? Uh, how do you mean? Do you think you would have gone?

I think that the first time that I called you guys. No, no. Yeah. The first time you called us, do you think you would have checked in with her and said, are you sure you want me to come? Uh,

I wouldn't have, I don't, I'm'm not gonna definitely say like probably not honestly like i probably would have just like went and hoped for the best and like hoped it worked out yeah well next time with someone else if this happens what you know what i would have loved for you to do uh when your buddy sent you that text or message i would have loved for you to not reach out to her right away. And the next day, calmly to say, hey, listen, something came up. Coming out doesn't feel right. I don't think I'm going to make it this week. And not tell her why. She's not your girlfriend.

You don't owe her an explanation. There is that. And let her stew and be like, what, what, why, why can't you, whatever. And then you could have casually said, hey, what, why, why can't you, whatever. And then you could have casually said, Hey, listen, my buddy sent me this again. You're not my girlfriend. You have every right to tweet this. But I just decided for myself that like, it was clear to me that like, we're just not on the same page. You know, like I'm ready to like, you know, I think you're great and I would date you. And you right now you're, you're clearly ready to like, you know, I think you're great and I would date you.

And you right now, you're, you're clearly just out there playing the field, which again, you have every right to. I just want like, I hate it when, when the fuck boys, so to speak, get to say, well, I told you we weren't boyfriend and girlfriend, you know, even though you felt like entitled and in some ways you could have right like it felt wrong what she did it's like hey i'm flying out there and we're clearly gonna hook up and like you're putting it out there on the internet and the place that we met that you're like flirting with other guys it was fucked up of her but she did have every right to do that and you always

lose in those situations when you get the fuck boy to get to be able to say the thing that they've already told you that they have a right to do, yada, yada, yada. So instead of calling them out for something they technically have the right to do, you just decide for yourself that you no longer want to deal with it. And that was just a wake-up call to you. And because they have the right to do that, you didn't reach out to them and say, WTF, why'd you do that? Because you knew that they had the right. It was just a wake up call to you to realize, you know what? They do have the right and I'm just at a different place to them. So I'm just, I'm, I'm sitting this one out. So in the future, I want you to not to react like she's your

girlfriend. I want you to react as how she is, which is like, you know what? I'm deciding for myself that this is fucked up and I don't need this shit and I'm just not going to go. And that's how I wish she would have handled it. But other than that- I'll move myself from the situation.

Yeah, just be like, eh. And let her wonder, let her stew. Let's be like, why did he do this? And eventually you can be like, listen, you know, it's not a big deal, but I saw this. It just rubbed me the wrong way. And then you say it,

you say the obvious out loud. Again, you have every right to do this. We're not boyfriend and girlfriend. It just like was a wake up call to me that we're just not on the same page. So I just decided not to come. No big deal.

I think you're great in my book, but we're just on two different pages. So I think this thing's kind of over and that's such a power move. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. But you'll have an opportunity in the future to do it again. Yeah.

Well, in three weeks, we can use that one. Yeah. Well, it's a little different now. But you know what to say in three weeks. But next time you are in a situation, Chip, if you are ever in one and and you're not boyfriend and girlfriend and your friends or you catch them doing shit that makes you want to send them a wtf text and knowing that no matter how fucked up it might be that technically they can say we're not boyfriend and girlfriend never give them an opportunity to throw that in your face ask

yourself you know what's the alternative response to... Because you knew as soon as you sent that, at some point, she was going to be able to say, you're not my boyfriend. And it's such an annoying thing for them to say. So don't give them the opportunity. All right, man. I appreciate your story. These are all fun and tough lessons. But you're better for it for sure. And you're learning now. Yeah. No, thanks.

Thanks for having me back. I appreciate the advice, man. All right, man. Well, good luck on everything. Please keep us posted. I'm invested. I want to know more because you're right. She's definitely reaching out.

Yeah, I will. I definitely will. I'll let you know. All right. Take care, bud. All right. Bye-bye. As new parents, Natalie and I like to spend as much time as we can at home with our daughter.

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Oh, like one of those like wet stamp things? Yeah, we use DoorDash for that. No problem, because I forgot about it. And that's where DoorDash came in. DoorDash is there to meet all your shopping needs. DoorDash makes shopping a breeze. Choose from a wide range of items from your favorite local stores, from fresh produce to pantry staples to gifts to pet essentials, all in one place.

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to the story and then just see nick's reaction of just being like, and then and then what? Yeah, I just was not expecting that. Kept getting better. Yes. So our final written update is from Olivia. She was our sweating the wedding caller who didn't know if she should have her dad, stepdad or no one walk her down the aisle. I remember that. Yeah. And it was kind of a debate back and forth.

Natalie helped out with that one in her wedding planning process. And it was kind of a debate back and forth. Natalie helped out with that one in her wedding planning process. So Olivia writes, I was the wedding sweater who was torn between having my dad or my stepdad walk me down the aisle for my wedding. You advise that I let my dad walk me down the aisle on the condition that he puts more effort into our relationship and that I do the father daughter dance with my stepdad. I ended up mostly following your advice. I let my dad walk me down the aisle, but I didn't provide any conditions for him to have that privilege.

I mostly wanted to even out the past. Since my stepdad walked me down the football field for homecoming, I let my dad walk me down the aisle for my wedding. With my decision, I evened out the score, cleared my conscience, and my stepdad said he was completely honored to have the father-daughter dance. The singer messed up the song by forgetting all of the lyrics, but my stepdad didn't seem to notice and said he was happy regardless. Couldn't she do two dances? Probably. But in her mind, if she wanted to just have one thing. I mean, it'd be weird to walk down the aisle twice. So you can only do that once. Back it up. And let's do it again. But you can do two dances. Like, why couldn't you do two dances? I don't know. Maybe maybe because then in her mind she's given biological dad two and stepdad one i guess

sure well it's her wedding whatever fuck it who gives a shit what i think it seems like it seems like this is what she wanted yeah when making the ultimate decision it was important for me to remember that at the end of the day i'm getting to marry my best friend and start a family of our own any decisions leading up to our nuptials pale in comparison to who i decide to marry Amazing. That's just like a beautiful little fun update. Sucks about the singer. What? You know what I'm reminded of right now? Natalie woke up in the middle of the night. You know, she's getting close. The hormones are hormoning. I think. I don't know probably what it is. But she woke up in the middle of the night probably like a dream being like I can't sleep I'm so stressed about all the things we have to

do the wedding and I'm like it'll be fine we'll figure it out go to bed I was like half asleep tired and be like just go to bed it'll be fine we'll throw money at it I don't care let's just sleep that was your solution I mean I was like in a mid sleep I mean I don't I don't I mean I was

like well i promise we'll figure it all out please go to bed you know she was just having one of those nights for you know it's a expecting mother you know she's it's i can't i literally can only imagine can't and i can't imagine but i think she was feeling the stresses of all the things that we have coming but i tried to reassure her with one eye open. It'll all be fine. Don't sweat the wedding. It'll be fine. Whatever, however it is.

It'll be great. Anyways, it's time for our final caller. It'll bring a smile to your face, however your day is going so far today. This call will leave you with a smile. And hopefully maybe some information if you're at all curious

about this surrogacy process. I mean, you'll still have more questions, but you'll get some answers. Let's get to our caller. Welcome back, Megan. Hey, how's it going? So good. You called back in 2019.

Yeah. Like an OG ass Nick caller way back when. We're going to have to figure out what episode it was and we'll put it in the away because I knew I was going to have some struggles. And then we just could not, I mean, we could get pregnant repeatedly. We just couldn't keep a pregnancy. And we, at the point that I had called in, we had tried everything. We had tried IUIs, IVF, all kinds of fertility treatments and nothing was sticking. And then I was just thinking about my life overall. And I was thinking like, okay, I always wanted to live at the beach or somewhere in nature. And I never really wanted to just be living in this area that I'm living in or living the life I'm living more or

less. And so I asked you if I should pretty much just uproot everything, start over and just more or less stop planning for a future that's clearly not happening for me. Let's play a quick clip from your original call to bring all of those people and more up to speed with what we talked about. I have something called PCOS and it just basically means that my hormones are all over the place. And it affects a lot of things for women's health and particularly fertility. And so it's just something I always knew was going to be a struggle for me. And I happened to get married very young at 24. And my husband and I just both knew we wanted kids and we knew that it was going to be really hard for us to have kids.

So we decided to start trying right away. We did actually end up getting pregnant within a month of marriage, which was totally unexpected. And unfortunately, we miscarried. And it was just such a difficult and trying thing to go through, especially so early on in the marriage. So we just decided to not try for a year and just take time to be newlyweds and to enjoy that. So that's what we did. And then we decided to start trying again. And we've been trying for the last two years and we've had multiple losses and failed fertility treatments. And so at this point, we're just at this crossroads where we're trying to decide,

do we continue to move forward with fertility treatments and continue to pour all of our money into it and just our emotional well-being is so impacted by it. You just don't know how it's going to go. And it's so uncertain. And if we choose that route, how do you possibly prepare yourself for that kind of like constant disappointment and constant you know

loss essentially um or do we just kind of like let go of this idea that life was going to turn out a certain way and just kind of enjoy what we have because we do have a very beautiful life, just the two of us. So do we just like pick up and move somewhere we've always wanted to and just enjoy that and just have an adventure? And then if we choose that though,

I know you always talk about Nick, letting go of how you planned life to be and just living life. But if we do that, how do you actually truly do that? Because I find that that's the hard part. Like it's easy to say, we're just going to let it go. We're just going to not have kids and we're just going to like enjoy that. But it's so much, there's still so many nights where my heart just like aches for that. And it's hard to actually, it's hard to actually like accept that. It's easy to say, but it's hard to really live out, I guess. Yeah. I mean, thanks for calling and sharing. Obviously, this is a very personal

story. So we do appreciate you, you do sharing that with us. You kind of have the idea, right? But you don't know how to like implement it into your life, which is hard to do. Listen, you are still only 27, right? And again, don't know what it's like to be in your shoes, but it sounds like you were aware of this condition that you had early on. And so, okay, I know this condition. I know I have to do this. So, hey, let's try to have kids right away because let's try to get ahead of it. Maybe we'll be lucky enough to have a child and then we won't stress about it anymore because we'll at least have one.

And, you know, we can plan our lives. And it hasn't worked out, right? But, like, you've been trying to be so proactive. And now, you know, you've had this disappointment. And you've tried to maintain a level of perspective of, hey, I'm still happy and still in love. And maybe we can consider alternatives. But this is not a black and white thing. You know, it's not like you and your husband have to decide to like live or die, so to speak. You're not deciding whether you want to have kids or not,

right? You know, you can, you're just deciding to live. Am I quite, you made you, you, you talked about picking up and traveling. I don't know what you and your husband talk about or things that you might want to do that you're not doing now. I can tell you that all sorts of people have kids. All sorts of people with different lifestyles have children. Lots of times people with very unconventional lifestyles who aren't planning on having kids have kids.

And I know that's probably like irritating for you to hear because it's like, oh, I want the kid. And they're like, they didn't want the kid. And, you know, or they weren't planning on having kids have kids and i know that's probably like irritating for you to hear because it's like oh i want the kid and they're like they didn't want the kid and you know or they weren't planning on getting pregnant but the point is is you can travel you can be adventurous you can live this kind of quote-unquote selfish lifestyle because you're maybe thinking well if we can't have kids maybe we can live live life for ourselves and it's not the life that you and your husband may be planned on, like we were going to get married at 24, and then at 27, we're going to have kids and, you know, settle down with this house in Virginia or whatever it is, but live your life, you know, whatever it is. And if, as long as you and your husband are each other's main priority, you might be surprised. Again, I don't know the

situation and the money you're spending on fertility, but you can maybe pause that for a time being. Is it possible to not do fertility? And even though it might be harder for you, it's still possible for you and your husband to get pregnant by just simply having sex and getting lucky. Is that true? Or are we past that point for you? It is, it's still possible. Um, it's just hard because I'm so irregular. Like most people can like track their cycle every month and know when fertility, um, for us, it's just a total gamble. You know, I might ovulate like three times a year. So it's just like, do we happen to get lucky and you know, have sex on the day that I ovulated? It's just like, it's, it's a very, it's certainly possible for me, but it's just very hard to

plan. Yeah. I can only try to empathize, but I know that can be emotional. I guess what I'm saying is, yeah, go live your life. Give yourself the freedom to live your life. You're only 27. You know, don't, don't, don't focus what you're doing now. Like your whole life right now is focused on getting pregnant and all the resources

you have available. And you're like putting off everything you're doing, travel, vacation, whatever, just so you can try to stop doing that. Yeah. That does not mean you guys decide you're not having kids. Pull the goalie, you know, live your life. You might be surprised, you know, I mean, certainly stress can be a reason why people can't get pregnant and things like that. There are a lot of cases. So maybe give your guys your permission to just take a step back, call a timeout. You're

not giving up on anything. You're just gonna chill out. My mom had her last kid at 47. You just never really know, you know? And so I know, you know, science out there tells you you're supposed to, you know, your clock's ticking and then you're more at risk if you get pregnant earlier. But like, listen, those, just go live your life. You'll never really know, right? You are really young. I mean, even let's say, let's say the next two years you guys kind of took off and let's say you're not lucky enough to get pregnant. You're still only 30. I understand that my doctor might say, well, you're slightly more at risk.

But like there are plenty of women having babies and healthy babies in their 30s. And correct me if I'm wrong, at this point, you and your husband will just feel like it's a great blessing to hopefully have one. And then with you, if that day comes, one thing I will assure you, you will feel in that moment,

it was all worth the wait. You will. Right. But you don't want to do is just stress yourself out. Like trying to force certainty only creates more uncertainty, but you just got to try to just take a time out from this obsession of getting pregnant. And hopefully

that will help. More importantly, I think you guys, you and your husband need to appreciate each other, reset, not necessarily change your priorities, but just appreciate the fact that you do have disposable income. Take advantage of that. And definitely take a little bit of break. Still pull the goalie. that you do have a disposable income, take advantage of that, you know, and definitely

take a little bit of break, you know, still pull the goalie, you know, doors always open. Yeah. All right. Well, thank you so much. Thanks for calling. Best of luck. Yeah, I know. We really appreciate you calling. I know it's a hard, hard topic to talk about, and I'm sure there's a lot of people listening who can relate in some sort of way of the difficulties of getting pregnant. I hear it's hard to do. Again, if you are ever lucky enough to have a kid in that moment, you will definitely think it was all worth it.

I am certain of that. So let yourself, let it happen if you can. Okay, so what advice did I give you? Pretty much you just told me like, yeah, you should do what you want to do in life. If you want to move, you should move. If you want to do a different job, you should do that. Like you kind of just told me like more or less stop planning for the life that, you know, isn't happening and plan for the life that you want to live more or less. Yeah. Like stop planning the life you thought you wanted and start living the life that you

actually want. I don't know, whatever. Yeah. There's probably something like that. So what, what did you do with that? So, um, the reason I stayed in this area is because my family is here and my husband's family is here. And so we were thinking like with kids, we wanted to be near family, all that. Um, and so I wanted to move to the beach and my husband decided like he didn't want to live at the beach. So we kind of compromised and we found a place that was out in the middle of nature, more or less. So we're still kind of in the same area where we were before, but we're like 30 minutes at least from anything. And we're much happier. Yeah. We moved and he got a different job and I ended up, um, staying home, uh, with our now kids. And that's kind of the

crazy part of the update. So you got pregnant. Yeah. So basically we tried absolutely everything and, um, I really, really wanted to be pregnant, but my fertility doctor, basically, like I have all kinds of things like autoimmune disorders, blood clotting disorders, PCOS, endometriosis, the list is pretty much endless. So we tried any treatment, even beyond IVF that she could think of. I couldn't sustain a pregnancy. And so she was like, at this point, you are probably going to need to use a surrogate if you want anything, like if you want to use your embryos that you have left. So we talked about it a lot and we decided that we would use the embryos that we had,

we would use a surrogate. And it was a really tough decision. And I, you know, wanted to carry the pregnancy myself, but I knew my body just couldn't. So I said, okay, we'll use the surrogate. We did that. Well, I got pregnant at the same time as the surrogate did. What? And yes. So you hired, I get it right? That's the proper way.

You hired a surrogate. Pretty much. Yeah. More or less. Yeah. And they got pregnant with you and your husband's child. And I have so many, I'm fascinated by the surrogacy process and then as nature would have it you you and your husband are just like having sex like hey you you

know just you think you know the oven isn't ovening and he's just you know he's just shooting fucking darts wherever they go uh and lo and behold, you got pregnant. And so your surrogate and you were pregnant at the same time. Yeah. And so I had been pregnant so many times. And so I didn't really think much of it necessarily. I was just kind of like, okay, that's kind of cool. I'm pregnant at the same time as her. I'll have like a brief little window where we're both pregnant. Awesome. And I thought I would miscarry again, like I always do. And my husband was for some reason, sure that I wasn't going to miscarry. He was like, no, you're going to stay pregnant at this time. And I even had a coworker who didn't know I was pregnant and was like, watch, you're going to get pregnant now because your surrogate's pregnant. And I was

thinking to my head, like, well, yeah, actually, um, I am, but I didn't say anything at the time. And I actually, I could tell I was pregnant before we even had a positive pregnancy test. And it, it was like super early on. So we were kind of neck and neck. Like I got a positive pregnancy test. Then she got a positive pregnancy test. Then I had my like six week appointment. She had her six weeks. And like some of our appointments were literally on the same exact day as we were progressing through and the pregnancy just kept going and going and going and made it all the way to the end. Our due dates were originally two days apart and we gave birth on the same exact day. So yeah. They have the same. They got, oh my God.

Yeah. They have the same exact birthday. And they're not even twins. They're like twins from two different wombs. Wow. What a story. Yeah. That's incredible. Everyone's healthy? Boy, girl, girl, girl.

Boy, girl. Boy, girl. Who, did you have the girl or did she have the, who had who? I carried the boy and she carried the girl. Okay. What was the surrogacy process like? I mean, you obviously had a very unique version of it because you were also pregnant. Like Nellie and I, like, you know, we got pregnant for the first time, right? Now we're in due time. She will be delivering our first daughter. Yeah. Congrats, by the way. but like it's our it's it's nally's first time it's our you know she her first trimester was pretty tough a lot of a lot of sickness so you know you you're just like oh well i don't know

if i could do this again and we kind of joked about surrogacy you know we feel very fortunate that obviously we could get pregnant with without much trouble we we know that we're very lucky there that being said i am fascinated about the emotional process that comes with it because obviously there's a financial cost. This obviously is like, it's an industry. People do it. But what was that like for you emotionally to have someone else carry your child? What was that?

Yeah. How was that? I mean, obviously it was a really tough decision, like right off the bat, because I had been pregnant so many times. And also there was a degree of like, you know, you get pregnant, you're, you lose it, you get it, you lose it. And so your body goes so much through that. So like I had gained all this weight and like kept, it just, it was horrible. And I felt like I just like needed to be pregnant to get past all the things that had kind of happened to mess up my body along the way. And so there was a part of me, like, even just emotionally, I just really wanted to be able to carry my own

child. And so I had to like mourn the loss of that more or less. And then there's the aspect of like, you are trusting basically a stranger to carry your child because in, so in my state that I live in, you actually can't hire a surrogate. It's illegal to hire a surrogate. So if you have a surrogate, it just has to be someone who volunteers to do it for you. And I almost had someone who volunteered. Yeah. You can't pay them legally for some weird reason. Could you pay someone out of state? Yeah. So we ended up using an agency and our surrogate was nine hours away from us. So we couldn't go to the appointments. We

couldn't like really be a part of the process at all in any way, like physically. And so it was just crazy, but it was also like, we actually developed a friendship through the whole process. Like her and I are super close friends now because we're texting, we're literally going through the exact same things at the exact same times, like same stages of pregnancy, same, like at the very end being like, okay, I am so over this. Like we both just wanted to give birth by the end. Like we, we really bonded. So like now we're super close, but it. What about the bond with your child? Like what, what, how, how, is there a difference?

So I, okay. So the first night there kind of was not gonna lie because I had like this crazy transformative experience. I give birth to my son. We're in the hospital together. We have those first two nights together. Like I'm breastfeeding him and we're connecting. And then like my, so my parents and his parents drove to the other state to get our child and bring our child to us. So our poor daughter had to be in the car for a nine hour drive. She comes in and she first of all, they didn't give her a bath at the other hospital. And so she still smelled like, you know, birth.

They really just brought her. Wow. Yeah. And it's different states have different things. Like in our state they they bathed our child they didn't even really ask if we wanted that and they said oh we just let the parents give the first bath so there was actually even like this instinctual thing like when i first held her she didn't smell like me and i was like it it was it was this weird instinctual like wait

this one's not mine kind of feeling for for for like, because I was so hormonal too. Like I had just given birth. So my hormones were crazy. And so the first night, and so she, she had just done a nine hour drive. So she comes in just screaming. My son was the most chill, calm, easy baby. And so I'm like, I have this whole routine going. And then they brought in this new child that's like losing her mind, screaming, doesn't smell right to me. And so there was like the first day it was actually, I was like, Oh my gosh, I'm having a hard time bonding with her. Like I wasn't expecting that at all. I thought that this, I thought it would feel exactly the same and it didn't.

And I told my mom that, and I was like crying about it. Cause I was crying about everything at that point. And she was like, you'll, you'll get past that you'll get past that my parents bathed for the next day and then after that it it totally shifted and now it's like now at this point I almost forget that she like that I didn't birth her too like now I'm it's the same exact connection because I you know now they're they're two and a half months. So I've been with them for a long time. She's actually the better breastfeeder. So I have that bond with her that I don't have as much with my son because he struggles. How old are they? They're two and a half months. Oh my God. This is crazy. Wow. Yeah. So this just

happened. Yeah. This is incredible. I feel super connected to both now. Like now I can't even envision life with, without one, you know? Um, actually when it first happened, ironically, I had always said my whole life, I never wanted twins just because it sounded so overwhelming to me. I was like, one sounds already like such a life shift. I definitely don't want to. And then the universe was like, too bad. Here's two. But now I'm so happy I have both. And I think about it because I don't know if I'll ever be able to get pregnant again. Like that whole situation was wild. And so at least I now have a sibling for my child.

You know, like I never have to worry about not giving them a sibling. So that's the kind of hidden blessing in it all. But it was, yeah yeah it was just a wild roller coaster what a crazy story wild that's so great yeah thank you so much for sharing that's um so fascinating the whole surrogacy process seems uh wild and there you know there are probably a lot of people out there like yourself who for whatever reason can have a hard time getting pregnant i'm sure you know now and i were curious about it and even though we didn't have that struggle but like there is a lot of like oh that's you know scientifically the fact

that like as a species we even figured out how to do shit like that is crazy to me i know but then like the psychology around like what is that like because, it's been, I couldn't imagine now that we got pregnant, like our daughter's already been with us, you know, like yesterday I could feel our daughter have hiccups inside Natalie's stomach. And it's like, you know, she's there with us, you know, and, you know, we read to her most nights, you know, and to not be able to do that would be very hard, you know, and very challenging if we were forever, for whatever reason, if we decided on or had to, you know, we never know. But I always was really curious about someone who went through the process.

So I really appreciate you sharing it. Yeah. Well, we actually sent recordings of us reading books and stuff to her. So our surrogate would play that, you know, every night so that she would get familiar with our voices. Oh, that's so great. Yeah. That's clever.

So we had a great experience because we had a wonderful surrogate, but I can imagine how hard it would be if you didn't fully trust the person, like leaving your child in someone else's hands. I think that's the hardest part is like knowing that, you know, you can't control anything they do. You can't control their diet. You can't control like, like the appointments. You can't ask those questions that you can at your own. And so there's, there is a level of like letting go of control and you're literally letting somebody else be the first caretaker of your child. And you don't get to do it. it's and then you couldn't be there because you were pregnant the fact that they were born in the same day is you know that's that's the universe saying doing something for sure yeah she's uh she's given birth she has two

sons and so she's given birth twice both times she was early so we thought for sure this would be an early she would give birth early and so we didn't think their due dates would be anywhere near the same. We thought they'd be like a month apart. And, um, she ended up like, so we ended up just getting further and further and further down the road. And we both went to full term. So we were both like, all right, when is this baby going to come? Um, and so we actually induced, I never intended to induce, um, but we induced on like around 40 weeks because we wanted me to give birth so that my husband could then fly to her birth and be there for both births. Um, my birth ended up being 50 hours long.

Labor was horrible for me. And in fact, I was like, I'm never doing this again. Like my husband kept saying like, all right, Irish twins now. And I was like, never, this is not now I would do it again. But in husband kept saying like, all right, Irish twins now. And I was like, never, this is not, now I would do it again. But in the moment it was 50, 50 hours. Yeah. And then, oh yeah. So I'm in labor at this point for like 40 hours. I get a text from her. I'm having interactions going to the hospital now at like midnight. And then I get a text from her at like 5.00 AM she's here. And I was like,

midnight. And then I get a text from her like 5.00 AM she's here. And I was like, mother, I have been in labor for 40 plus hours at this point, you just give birth like that. And I still haven't given birth. And at that point I was like, okay, like we might need to cut this baby out of me. I'm not doing this anymore. Eventually I did. I wasn't able to deliver vaginally, but it was quite a process. Wow. So what a story, what a story. Uh, incredible. Thank you so much for sharing,

uh, and giving us that update. What a fun and exciting update and congratulations to you and your husband. So amazing. Thank you. I appreciate it. And congrats to you and Natalie. Um, also, can you just let her know I'm obsessed with her and her pregnant era? We were pregnant at the same time for a lot of it. And so her videos were so relatable to me. I was like, oh gosh, that's exactly how I talk to my husband right now. Like that is like, she's, she's an icon. She's the best. I'll be sure to tell her. So thank you so much. This has been great. Really appreciate you taking the time. Yep. Thanks. Thanks for having me on.

All the best to you. And what are your kids' names? Um, Ember and Elijah. Lovely. Uh, amazing. That's so awesome. Uh, so many good vibes. I appreciate it. Yeah. Appreciate you. All right. Well, take care. You too. All right. Bye-bye. Well, I hope you enjoyed that, uh, call. I thought it was a lot of fun. Really brought

a smile to my face. As always, we thank you for listening. Again, hate to be redundant, but if you like these updates, there's so many more available to you behind Vile Files Plus. We got 20 plus episodes out there with updates that you've been missing out on. For all the people who listened to Ask Nick and all the updates, be sure to check those out. Again, vilefiles.com, V-I-A-L-L, files.com. It's free to sign up. Get a seven-day free trial. Check it out. What do you have to lose? Literally nothing. Well, see you on Monday for episode 699, episode 700. Get ready to be entertained. We'll see you then. Bye.