The Viall Files - E701 Going Deeper with Whitney Rose + Thoughts on Toms, VPR, Dorit’s Fashion, and Swifties vs Micro Pen*s

Episode Date: February 1, 2024

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Going Deeper Edition! To start things out, the household gets together to talk about the interview with Tom Sandoval and Tom Schwartz (including some tea about… cakes) and a controversial scene from the Vanderpump Rules Season 11 Premiere. Then, we are joined by Whitney Rose to talk about Real Housewives of Salt Lake City and the explosive finale and reunion. We get her thoughts on Monica studying the cast as a fan prior to joining the show, her relationship with Jen Shah, the burn book, and Reality VonTease. Finally, we have a Texting Office Hours caller who dated a Real “Husband” of Orange County and is struggling with his rude comments post-breakup.  “Do you deserve an Emmy for being a terrible person on TV?” Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes. Listen To Disrespectfully now! Listen on Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/disrespectfully/id1516710301 Listen on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0J6DW1KeDX6SpoVEuQpl7z?si=c35995a56b8d4038 Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCh8MqSsiGkfJcWhkan0D0w To Order Nick’s Book Go To: http://www.viallfiles.com  If you would like to get some texting advice on Office Hours send an email to [e-mail] with “Texting Office Hours” in the subject line! To advertise on the show, contact [e-mail] or visit https://www.advertisecast.com/TheViallFiles  THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Hungryroot - Right now, Hungryroot is offering The Viall Files  listeners 40% off your first delivery and free veggies for life. Just go to https://www.Hungryroot.com/viall  Manscaped - Get 20% Off and Free Shipping with the code VIALL at https://www.Manscaped.com  ZOA Energy - Available online and at a store near you. Find out where you can find it at https://www.ZOAEnergy.com and fine retailers like Amazon, 7-Eleven, Costco, Circle K and more. Peloton - Wherever you’re starting, get moving with a Peloton Bike or Bike+ rental at https://www.onepeloton.com/bike/rentals Terms apply. MeUndies - This Valentine’s Day, give the gift that’ll always have them thinking of you and get 20% off your first order, plus free shipping, at https://www.MeUndies.com/VIALLFILES  Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @nnataliejjoy @whitneywildrose @alison.vandam @dereklanerussell @allisonklemes  

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You're crazy. What's going on everybody? Welcome back to another exciting episode of the Volviles Going Deeper edition. I'm your host, Nick, joined by the household and my lovely fiance. Well, you're part of the household. I don't really... First, it was as like pop culture correspondent. And now like you just kept showing up. Oh my God. Yeah.

In the best possible way. You would say I'm going to work and I would say I'm coming with. Yeah. Nonsense. Nonsense. We have a full, a pretty full house. Allie is always is with us from St. Paul. Our sweet, sweet boy, Justin is in the, in the room.

And making her, is this your debut? Yeah, officially. First time on the mic? Yeah. That lovely voice you are hearing is another Allison. Nick only hires Allison's or Allie's or A-Names. This one's got two L's. Yeah.

Wait, Allie doesn't have two L's? Allison's one L. Are you okay? Me? I have been working for you since 2020. You did not just ask me if I have two L's in my name. You know I can't spell, Ellie. I don't, am I?

At least he gets it right. Yeah. I'm a little offended. Why are we expecting Nick to know how to spell anything? Because I've been your employee for four years. I still am not sure if your last name is actually martin or van damme yeah wait what is it honestly i'm confused well he knows yeah yeah but it is kind of confusing he still asks me whenever he's booking flight stuff like

can you confirm this is this really is this your birthday is this how you spell your name i'm just double checking i once showed up to an airport for a flight and i booked a ticket misspelled my own name it was a big issue wow wasn't fun yeah almost didn't make my flight there are certain things my brain does well and there are certain things my brain does not do at all at all yeah at least you double check i'm the type of person that'll just wing it and be like, hope this works. No, I tried that. Yeah, around your age. You re-put yourself. I paid the

consequences. Well, welcome. Thank you. Allison, it's good to be with you. Well, we have a lot to get into. First, we have an amazing guest, as always. Obviously. The one, the only, Whitney Rose is with us from, well, as many of you know, Real Housewives of Salt Lake City to discuss and really put a bow on season four?

Yeah. And the reunion. Of Salt Lake City. The reunion. Where they are now. Where they are now. Her feelings on Monica. What's next.

All of the above. Yeah. All your burning questions. Obviously, you have many. And as you have come to expect on this show we've addressed them all so we are excited for you to listen to Whitney obviously a lot of discourse regarding the Tom episode

oh boy we should probably maybe start there give our thoughts baby what were your thoughts he hated me I mean I couldn't ask a single question without him being like, are you fucking kidding? It was like,

I think maybe, I don't know if he's the biggest fan of women in general and especially ones he doesn't know questioning his behavior. my favorite response of his to natalie was when natalie was like schwartz that seems really like easy for you to say why is it not as easy for you sandoval and he goes me oh are you dude he just like threw dude at her yeah yeah he definitely was triggered that I asked him quite literally anything. Schwartz are catching some heat from their time on the Bob house because I don't, I don't like

that. It wasn't certainly wasn't my intention. I really, I really wanted this to be an opportunity for the both of them, specifically Mr. Tom Sandoval. But you also can't speak for them and they, you know, and you tried to drive that ship as clear as possible and they just dug it, more so Sandoval, in a hole. I will say I've had very similar conversations with Tom offline. And this is how he feels.

I've asked and answered before. Wasn't sure what he would say when he came on the show. But Tom is a reactive person. Are you glad that I found the receipts and proved the timeline to be? I think for comic relief, yes. I don't know if anyone really believed Tom. It was, I think a lot of people picked up on the fact it was fascinating in real time to witness Tom Sandoval try to gaslight his way out of a situation

yeah you know because it it is like i said to him it was scary just how believable he was just how and how passionate he was that he was telling the truth yeah like even me i don't like lying i'm an i'm a really honest guy it's'm sure I've told lies before. I'm not infallible. But even when I'm telling the truth, sometimes awkwardly, I might even look like I'm not because if someone's coming at me hard, I don't. You get defensive. Yeah.

It's just natural instinct. But the way Tom answered the question, was he's very convincing well it started with you were two hours late and then it was like you were supposed to show up 5 30 to 6 30 showed up at 8 30 and then i was like well actually he left your house at 6 50 and he was like no he was an hour late and then like jason and jason i don't know who those people are i guess his producers were like waiting for you for hours i mean it just like i know the story that he was believed never really added up i know his version i can tell you how he has his version in his head because like i mentioned on the show when he asked me for the favor the night before he texted me did he know he texted me then i called him he's like hey man can you do this

and i'm like i again busy i can't give's like hey man can you do this and i'm like i again busy i can't give you like a hard time right now things are fluid but like i will definitely try and if i can i want you on mine uh so i left things open-ended during the day and didn't reach out to him until the afternoon so i'm sure throughout the day his team was probably asking is when's nick gonna come when's nick gonna show i bet that actually happened you know what i'm saying i don't think tom made that up but he sliced and diced like fragments so it could be tit for tat yeah of the previous day and turned it into an alternate universe but like so fast yeah the way he does it i will say a lot of people

appreciated natalie and her persistence with the text. Yes. Yes. Like some people could say that yeah it was random that you like brought it up later on

but I don't think it was. Well first of all it took me a second to find it because it was just Nick being like I'm done recording going to Whole Foods

which he texts me all the time. So I had to find the actual date and time and figure it out. That's what happens when you stay connected you know.

You know you have the receipts. You and figure it out. That's what happens when you stay connected. You know, you have the receipts. You have the receipts. But no, I just knew it was a lie. And so there was just no way that Nick started that podcast at 8.30 and it was pissing me off that he was lying on him. So I was like, no.

You know what? I'm not gonna let this lie. And I did the Lord's work. What did we think of Schwartz? Because I've heard like mixed reviews because on one end, I feel like some people appreciated some accountability from Schwartz. He did give a handful of times his authentic answers. And then I see like a lot of mixed opinions on one end. You know, Tom Schwartz is trying to be a friend to his friend, Tom Sandoval.

on one end, you know, Tom Schwartz is trying to be a friend to his friend, Tom Sandoval. And I also understand that because I've been in situations with girlfriends that I know better than whoever it is they're talking to. And they might say something that does come off the wrong way, or even if it's you and like something comes off the wrong way and they're like, what? And you're like, no, no, this is what he means. Like, you know, like, you know them so well that you're able to kind of say like i know that sounds crazy but like that's not what he's trying to say yeah no i don't fall shorts for doing that but i think it's he is he is loyal to a fault yes but like quite literally like his people pleasing is a problem absolutely in his life i saw this very interesting tiktok

a psychologist i don't remember who it was but in this video they talk about the similarities between i'm gonna reluctantly say this but people pleasing and narcissism and it was i saw it like two days ago and it was like on the heels of us dropping the tom episode and thinking about the dynamic duo of tom schwartz and tom sandoval and how the way this psychologist talked about the similarities and how there's a lot of similarities and very little differences was was quite fascinating but yeah his his tom schwartz's people pleasing is beyond to a fault. It's like a problem in his life. It is stunting his growth as a human. And I like Tom Swartz.

And I've gotten to know Tom Sandoval. And he does have good qualities. I think with me, I'm able to still have some sort of relationship with, I guess, both Toms. More specifically, Tom Sandoval. Because I am someone who's always been good at setting boundaries. And that's what that's all about. I look at Tom and I can let Tom into my life because I know what to expect from Tom and I know what not to expect from Tom. Tom Sandoval can be a great friend when your interests are aligned. If you and Tom Sandoval want the same things, great friend. You can count on him he will get

all the stuff he'll do all the plans he will own it as long as your interests are aligned and if your interests aren't aligned you better not count on Tom Sandoval and so for me it's just like I have no problem letting him into my space I don't I don't know how he feels about me right now I think he he's mad. He probably blames me for the episode. But I just know what to expect from a guy like Tom. And I'm open to being Tom's friend

because if Tom wants a friend like me, the tough love friend. But it also wasn't even, like he knew what questions you were going to ask ahead of time. He has known, I mean, you've ask ahead of time. He is known. I mean, you've had the conversations before. He was aware.

You're like, this is what I want this interview, the outcome to be. All of the interviews are the same. It's the floor is open. You can share your piece. You can write your name. That was all there for him. So, you know, it is what you make of it. Yeah.

And he just it's like you weren't asking tough questions. You weren't. To me, I didn't feel like we were as hard on him as some people or we could have been or we should have been or whatever. I felt like we were questioning his answers answers but we weren't like drilling him right i didn't think our questions were that tough it wasn't that complicated it was more like hey man i just i mean he's like i've learned so much like well okay what have you learned yeah i think the elaboration part was kind of the and that's the thing we've all made mistakes you know we've all fucked up we've hurt we've all hurt people we love. It's just that the disconnect.

And both of them seem so resistant to reflection. When I did Tom's podcast, and it's something I wanted to ask him on when he came on ours, because I asked Tom when I did his, I said to him, I know people like you. You seem like someone who's a sucker for a good moment. I know people like you. You seem like someone who's a sucker for a good moment, you know? And Tom said, I do love a good moment. And I was like, well, maybe you should just be single. Like maybe you're just not meant for a committed monogamous relationship because you love a moment.

And in those moments, you want to live in that moment. And you do not want to be handcuffed by things like monogamy expectations of a partner or you know when things are in but then he was like no man i want to like you know he just wants to be in love i don't and then like schwartz god bless him he just seems to be allergic to purpose well i think his purpose now is schwartz and sandys and he'll pr maybe now but it's so you know it's weird because in some ways I don't fault Schwartz the thing about Schwartz is like Kramer from Seinfeld there's a one scene in in Seinfeld where Jerry's talking about Kramer and he's just like I

don't understand it he just like oh no George is he just like he doesn't have a real job he just falls into money look at Tom Schwartz is he How old is he? 40? 40-ish. I think he's like 42. Super attractive guy. Was a model. Never really had a job. Got into TV. I don't know what he makes, but he's doing just fine.

His job is Tom Schwartz. His house is full of plants. He's got plants. Pet bugs. Life has not shown up on Tom swartz's doorstep and said hey you have to like join the real world now like it's just never happened to him the world hasn't made swartz grow grow up and he doesn't have any interest in doing it on his own anyone in this room know a lot about real estate because there was a lot of discourse about tom's

offer to ariana and then they're a lot of three it was three yeah you know tom saying well i offered a million dollars more than we bought it for but i think there is some confusion and people who know about real estate in terms of what that number actually means you know because they own it together and then there's like closing costs and things like that so tom offering ariana three million dollars is that even like enough to turn a profit i don't i that's the thing i don't know i just think it's it's more complicated it's not like as if ariana would get a three million dollar check no because they and could walk away scotch-free they split the assets a real estate attorney like

emailed us after listening to the episode, and he said that it's common for when people to divorce or separate that one of the spouses sells the assets to the other. It's not uncommon. Yeah, I'm curious as to how. So the email reads, Hi, Nick. So you're in the midst of a divorce, but your ex-spouse is the one moving out of the house. What can you expect next? Longtime divorce lawyer Bill Gentry is available to discuss what going through a divorce can anticipate if their former spouse is vacating their home. When they will want to cash out their equity, what happens if the home ultimately needs to be sold? What is the best way to handle negotiations? Quote, frequently, the spouse

who is willing to move out of the house will want to cash out their equity as soon as the divorce is final. A lot of times assets are shifted around by giving the vacating spouse much more of any 401k or pension. However, eliminating legal responsibility for the mortgage will remain a problem until the mortgage is satisfied. An agreement with your former spouse should be negotiated as part of the divorce settlement, whether it's included in the divorce paperwork that gets filed with the court or not. That's basically what you're saying. The asset will be shifted. However, there's still a cost that remains.

Yeah. Yeah. I just don't, I don't think Tom's offer to Ariana is as attractive as he positioned it. Yeah. On our show. I could be wrong because I don't, I don't, I'm not an expert in this department.

I'm sure we'll get more feedback. I was about to say, I'm sure it'll be like very well i'm also sure it will be like very similar to that email you just read where we'll all be like huh after like legal words please explain like i'm five yeah we you know we need the dumb dumb version yeah exactly um usually when i get like you know if i read something like that i'll copy and paste it into chat gbt i'm like can you please explain this like i'm five and i'll be like imagine you had toys and you have to like we need someone to break down what it would potentially look like for a house that ariana and tom purchased for two mil and then there was an offer for three mil assuming closing costs they'll have to make

some assumptions but they bought it for two we also know that ariana and tom didn't each put in a million he said they each put up about 250K. That's their down payment, sure. But they split the- Bought for two, and then what is it worth now? Because he said that he did renovation, solar panels, blah, blah, blah. So what's the value of the house now? And does three carry over?

I mean, we couldn't even do math the last couple weeks ago. So I don't know if we're going to solve this problem. Do not make me do that. Not on air. We'll get into more Vanderpump recap on Reality Recap next Tuesday, along with some Housewives and some other stuff. But I do want to just briefly...

Did you watch? I know Natalie and I watched. Yeah, I did. The only one scene I want to reference this episode... Was it the Katie scene? Kind of, but not about Katie. It was more about... It was Lala reaching out to Raquel.

For all of Tom Sandelval's faults he's not that sophisticated you know what i'm saying like this idea that ariana and lala and even rachel i think rachel recently on her tell all thing is like basically saying tom sandoval mastermind this whole tom sandoval is not a mastermind no he's just not he is a reactive emotional guy who is very manipulative and probably modes over boundaries like right manipulative i think he's very capable of being manipulative yes yeah but it's so obvious to me. Well, sure. Because you're not like under his spell.

And you're not. What spell? I don't think Tom Sandoval is that much of a mastermind. I think he very much had Rachel manipulated, controlled, and under this like.

Also, like when you like someone, the chemicals firing in your brain, like you're so in it. Like it's hard not to. Like, yeah, it's easier said than done, but pulling yourself out. I just, I think the Rachels, the Raquels, the like Lala, I just don't, I think while Tom has his issues, we listened, we've covered it. We've heard him. He's not, you know, super big on growth right now. That doesn't seem to be his big focus.

super big on growth right now that doesn't seem to be his big focus he's just not the the mass i just don't think he's this mastermind that is capable of you know being the puppet master of all these people where every all these other adults can imply that their own choices were less theirs and more tom's i disagree mighty disagree baby because i and i think we saw it he coached i mean we saw it with ariana in season two or whatever that was he coached rachel like he very much is like this is how this is gonna go this is what we need to say this This is our story. This is how it went. They could disagree with him. They're not children. Sure, you can. But I think he manipulated them. I just don't know Tom to be that.

I think you're underestimating him. I don't. I think also just like there's a fear as well with like being seen a certain way. So she kind of. I guess it's all a matter of perspective, I suppose. I just don't. I don't know. I think while Tom is wrong,

he also is a convenient scapegoat for his other castmates. Also may not want to take full accountability. Sure. Like Lala... I'm glad Lala is giving Rachel an opportunity. Rachel doesn't... This whole outcast thing... Well, I don't agree with how Rachel's handling things.

Like, I don't think she needs to be ostracized from society. But at the same time, Lala, your timing is a bit suspect. Sure. It's like, where,

where was this empathy for the reunion last season? Yeah. And also like Raquel, why aren't you just, just be on Vanderpump? Yeah. It's like, she's

i don't know we'll get more into it during reality recap but that's what lisa was saying not in this premiere but like in the like in interviews she has said that if you're going to speak about the situation you might as well have been on the show yeah might as well get paid i know she's not getting that uh at iheart probably not yeah i've actually heard some I heart tea about the Rachel show. I'll share with you guys on Reality Recap next Tuesday. I just want to say to the audience that I think my fiance, Natalie, is one of the most stylish people out there. I do. I think Natalie's a tastemaker. Thank you.

You've elevated my style. I mean, oh, my God. I feel like there's a butt coming. What would I be wearing now if we didn't meet? Chelsea boots. Chelsea boots, skinny jeans. Oh my God. A really tight button up collared shirt.

Also this called the girlfriend effect. I wasn't even planning on mentioning this, but just PSA out there for all the men who might listen, and specifically the ladies who have male companions in their lives, you really got to get them off the skinny jeans. I know it's probably hard for all the Midwesterners out there who probably just started wearing skinny jeans because usually they kind of go a little slow. One of my buddies I grew up with started wearing skinny jeans

maybe like two years ago because he was getting out of the bootcut era. But anyways, as someone who wore some skinny jeans for a good decade, I can tell you, life's a lot more comfortable these days. I second that. I was going to say that to have flowy jeans, walk around and not feel restricted. Oh my goodness.

Another level. Anyway, I have Natalie to thank for me keeping up with the- Style icon. The comma style. The reason I bring this up. Yeah, thank you. I was thinking where am I going? I've been waiting on.

Jesus. Do you think Dorit has good style? Because Dorit refers to herself in her intro as basically like some style icon, like a self-proclaimed style icon. And while I am not one person, I am not someone, I may have an opinion, but my opinion doesn't matter

when it comes to Dorit's style. Because like, what the fuck do I know? I was wearing skinny jeans two years ago but all from where I can sit my uneducated fashionable opinion all Dorit does is wear just really expensive shit and does that make one stylish or does it just make them rich and lazy listen yes there's definitely a difference in having money and being able to afford just the most expensive brands and wearing them and being like well it's chanel so like obviously it's fashionable and being able to find pieces and put together an outfit and make something what it is that being said i think her style isn't bad i mean i think it's she's definitely made some

questionable decisions but who am i i mean you have to take risks when it comes for sure but uh i think she always looks good besides that um she had her hair done in some like real funky like gelled swoop thing i don't really know what was going on with that but other than that i think she's i think she's doing fine i was was genuinely curious. I will say her fashion has toned down over the years. Yes, I would agree. Along with Erika Jaynes. And I think that's because a lot of people clocked her. They were like, a brand or a logo does not equate fashion. That's tea. She would wear head to toe Louis Vuitton or something. Yeah. Chanel. I would be like, what do you mean? She's like, well, it's

$70,000 outfit. So it's like, okay, well, I got, I, yeah, I just,

I just think you have great taste. Well, thank you very much. Cause it's, you're confident about it. You know what you like, you know what you dislike. It always looks good.

Natalie, I was wearing an outfit the other day and I was like, why does this look so familiar? And I was like, Oh God, it looks exactly like one of Natalie's outfits. And I was like, I just do it like one of natalie's outfits and i was like what was it what was it true influencing there i know i know it was like it was just

basically all black and then it was like oversized blazer black shirt black leggings and then i was like oh just do my cream boots and i was like it's literally natalie's outfit oh yeah that was it was a fail. It was a moment for the short kings out there because I went shopping in my father's closet and it was a perfect size on me. So, shout out. Blazer?

Period. Erika Jayne doesn't get it, does she? Get what? The earrings. The whole earring scene where she gets like a call from her lawyer and being like, hey, I won the case. And she's like, I told you all not to cast judgment. Don't don't rush to judgment. I don't think any of her peers. And I think the majority of the audience at this point thinks that she was in on it. You know, I don't because I don't think they'd be hanging out with her if they actually thought that Erica knew that she was stealing money. I think a lot of them came out and said that they didn't think she knew about it. They just didn't like how she handled

the responsibility or dealing with the victims. That's what it was. Erica's acting like she is vindicated and mad at the rest of the women because they're not apologizing and it's just like that's not why you're getting

criticism at this point. You're getting criticism at this point you're getting criticism because you're still fighting for the rights for these earrings and even though you're winning on a technicality because yes you can't trace all the funds and prove that this money was you know she's winning on an accounting argument not a moral argument not a good look and so it's just weird that she is so and she gets so triggered when she gets asked about it as if like no one understands her plight i think in this specific group she wanted like a victory moment because she was crucified before and that's why she was expecting more of a response yeah but like i don't think she it's

seems to be flying completely over her head i'd love to have eric on and ask her about it i don't think she it's yeah it seems to be flying completely over her head i'd love to have erica on and ask her about it i don't i don't i don't know if it's gonna go well does your perspective change of her knowing that now she's sitting down for a special with the victim i saw that i'm excited to see that uh well it all depends on what is said up into this point there is no sense that erica understands the criticism she's receiving. What it seems like is like Erica is still trying to prove to everyone that she's not guilty, even though no one's questioning if she's guilty. They're just expecting her to do the right thing.

And she's still trying to prove her innocence, which kind of makes her more guilty in a weird way. Yeah. Like she's making it relevant. So, well, yeah, yeah i mean like that whole call was more about like hey i didn't steal this money and everyone's like no no we we know but like but you still stole money but but your husband stole a lot of money from people and used some you know like and you're wearing a million dollar earrings right whatever the fuck they meanwhile all the

victims are like yeah yeah it's. It's so it's, it's, um, but I am very curious to see how that goes. When, when is that a separate special? Is that part of the, when's that coming?

It's not a part of Bravo. I believe it's a Hulu special. So I think it's like the, a continuation of the documentary that slammed her originally. So it's like a lot of Hulu Bravo crossover these days. What? Maybe there's something in the works. Yeah.

How do we feel about Halle Bailey clapping back against the haters for hiding her pregnancy? Everyone's like mad at her, accusing her of gaslighting for not disclosing her pregnancy to them. People are fucking weird. People are so weird.

It's none of your fucking business. It's just so wild because we obviously have not shared our due date and that is purposefully i chose i told nick or a wedding date or a wedding date but i was like i do not need to have people questioning the size of my stomach questioning any choice i make because of how far along I am or anything like that. And it's just, I mean, like going back to the nursery, it's like people. Dude.

It's like I showed a room full of piranhas and was like, and my baby's going to sleep wrapped in pastrami, like laying in this little bed. Like that is what they acted like i showed them like you were gonna turn our daughter into fish bait literally it's like people are scary with their and and i know it's probably just gonna get yeah i know it's just gonna get worse when it comes to parenting yeah and everyone's everyone's you know the best mother ever they've never made a mistake they've never that's why we just have to not listen. No, for sure.

Being in the public eye. Leave Halle Bailey alone. Does not equate to having to share every personal moment. I can't even call her ghastly. She said, I never lied or even said anything about it. Honey, making a joke about my nose was the farthest I went. I'll never understand why you're mad. I protected my own peace.

Wouldn't you do the same? And I'm going to share pics now if i want because my son is here safely if you don't want to see it just keep scrolling god bless you and then she said my hormones have been on 10 recently so i'm going to go back to staying off twitter which is definitely me because i like yeah no well good for her for protecting her peace and for holding firm speaking of weird people like i mean we've all know already talked about this, but the discourse around Taylor Swift and Travis Kelsey has just gotten so weird now. It's really has, like, leaked into other pockets of the zeitgeist, so to speak. And it is kind of fun to see another, like, sports commentator commenting on this, you

know? Chris Long has a podcast, I'm a fan of their show uh very successful football player uh and he was just like if you have a problem he's like i'm not even a fan of taylor swift i don't listen to her music i don't consume her content but if you're a guy and you have a problem with 20 seconds of taylor swift on a foot uh being shown on a football game, then you have a micro penis. And I couldn't agree more. Really? It's such a weird... Who cares?

It's such a weird thing to care about. And also like seeing them on the field, you can see how genuinely happy they are. And it's like, why are you so mad that they're happy? I love NFL football. And I love it because it's drama. It's my Dungeons and Dragons. It's how I nerd out you know that and

reality tv and while i love the sports aspect of it taylor swift and travis kelsey like having a love affair on the football field like it's like it is a real life rom-com it's in the drama of travis kelsey performing while his girlfriend's watching and playing well or if he doesn't play well then we can just talk about that and, maybe you can have some discourse around it, but it is crazy just the conversations around it. It is nuts. Do you think Taylor Swift's the most powerful person in the world right now? Absolutely. Yes. Do you think she's aware of her power? Yes. Yes.

Isn't it crazy? Good for her. It's actually really crazy. I mean, you could argue she's one of the most powerful, Isn't it crazy? Good for her. It's actually really crazy. I mean, you could argue she's one of the most powerful. And I'm not even saying that hyperbolically. I mean, like quite literally.

She's one of the president of the United States. Yeah. I think the part that makes her powerful is the fact that she knows she's so influential. Because she said in documentaries, like, I'm fully aware that that's not normal. There's no one else who has her fan base. No. But I also think what makes it different is she knows from personal experience how it can just be completely

stripped away from her. She went through her entire phase where she was not physically seen for a year. That whole in-between before reputation, like when Kanye and Kim and the phone call happened, she just completely went off the grid. She truly was like, everybody hates me.

Like the whole world turned against her. Taylor Swift's over party was trending on Twitter for the longest time. Yeah. I mean, I really respect her desire, despite all her power and fame, to have as much normalcy

in her life as she can. I mean, I think if you didn't, I mean, if it were me, I'd go crazy. There's a lot of famous people who don't, though. Yeah. Who don't successfully accomplish what she's doing. I don't know.

It's so bizarre, the discourse around it. It's just, why can't we just enjoy it? It's so... They're happy. It makes watching football so fun. And for all the guys out there who want to just wake up on a Sunday and do nothing but watch football all day like Taylor Swift is making it easier for you to do that because

your partner who might be a fan of Taylor Swift is maybe a little bit more interested in watching the football that they weren't before. Why is this a problem? Everyone gets to eat. How is it bothering you? It's so fucking weird. Yeah. I don't care. I don't either. I think we have another jam-packed episode for you.

We will be back on Tuesday for our reality recap. Really getting in the weeds of some Vanderpump, some Housewives, some Traitors. Y'all won't see me for a while. That's crazy. We'll miss you when that comes. Anyway, Whitney Rose coming up next. We got also in the docket really excited about this denise richards it was so much fun interviewing denise just so she was so cool and chill and uh so much fun talking with her that's uh next week on going deeper and then uh we got some jwoww

lined up for you. That was really great. We're going to keep playing the hits. That's what we're going to do here at The Vow Files. As always, thank you for listening. Send in those questions at asknick at thevowfiles.com. Be sure to check out all our amazing episodes if you haven't tuned in to them, like the Tom's episode, Gypsy Rose,

Clayton Eckhart, the list goes on. I can't even keep track of the bangers we've been dropping. As always, we appreciate you guys listening. Tell your friends, subscribe anything I'm missing. My love.

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motivation, keeping them focused as they edit through some intense interviews. They've got eight incredible flavors like Tropical Punch, Wild Orange, White Peach, and now Frosted Grape. And my team's favorites are, in fact, Frosted Grape and the Cherry Limeade. So find your spark and order zoa energy today available online and at a store near you find out where you can find it at zoaenergy.com that's z-o-a-energy.com and find retailers like amazon 7-eleven costco circle k and more all right are we everyone ready ready you ready let's cheers first.

Cheers. There we go. Cheers. Thanks for coming. Cheers to my coffee. Yay. Whitney. Yes, Nick.

Welcome. Thank you for having me. Thank you for coming. Very, very excited to have you. Our first Salt Lake City housewife. Your first Salt Lake City housewife? Yeah. Well, I'm glad to be your first. We are as well.

I have to say, you probably don't know this, but I was a fan of yours back in the day. Was? Well, still am. While you were on reality TV. I will become a fan again after I have a bone to pick with you later. Oh. I'm just kidding. That's usually how it goes with me yeah um it's cyclical uh you were a fan yeah i was just all i was trying to say is like i'm having a fangirl moment too like i i watched the bachelor cheers to another being fans of each other yeah sure are you sad you can, babe? Even though you're not a big drinker.

This, I will say, I've only ever craved alcohol since being pregnant. So I don't know what that says about me. We always start these interviews off with a very heavy-handed question, which is, how is your heart? How is my heart? Yeah. I mean, obviously, you've been through so much recently. I don't know. How long ago did you film the reunion?

We filmed at the end of November. So it's been a while. Yeah. It was right after BravoCon. Okay. Wow. Yeah. They canceled our Salt Lake City panel at BravoCon.

Yeah. We heard from Rachel. That's right. I heard that. Yeah. Because it was so close to reunion. And I'm glad we did because it would have been. Chaotic.

I couldn't imagine having Monacon. Between Monacon and Lisa just screaming at each other. Yeah. So my heart, actually my heart was a little heavy for a minute, but now I'm feeling very open and, um, free, open and free. Yeah. Why open and free? You know, I, I've just realized that everything we've been through, everything I've been through personally, when my heart feels heavy, it just means I need to ground and go back inward. Okay. And with the chaos of housewives, Monica, reunion, all of it, I realized I'm still just wit. Yeah. I'm still a human being.

And at the end of the day, all these crazy ladies in my life really don't affect me. Who are you closest with? I'm closest with Angie Katzenavis right now. Right. Interesting that you say that. Right now. Currently in this moment. Do you say right now because it's kind of always a revolving door based off of whatever

drama is happening? It's because it's Salt Lake City. The dynamic shift with the windstorms that come in, like it is, you never know. But yeah, it's mostly drama, but she's proven to me that I can trust her. You know, you come on these housewife shows, at least I did in the beginning as an OG.

I thought, oh, these women are really my friends. Some of them I've had longstanding history with. And when you find out, oh no, they're not my friends. They just want to be icons. That was hard for my little girl, Whit Hart. Cause I'm like, wait, what happened to our friendship? So Angie has proven that we can be castmates and we can be friends. Interesting. That tracks too. Cause Angie, one could argue she might be the most boring of the group. What? Angie? could argue she might be the most boring of the group. What?

Angie? As a human being, that's a compliment. You know, when it comes to reality TV, I know. But yeah, she's more chill. Isn't she not? Compared to the rest of the cast? No, she's sniper mouth. I'm with you, Whitney. She is a sniper. What do you mean by sniper mouth?

But she's usually not like heading up the drama. Okay, facts. So she's not a potster yeah i guess that's what i mean her words can cut like i don't ever want to be cut by her words okay because i don't think i could have as good of comebacks as she does i agree yeah who were you closest with before you started filming? Heather Gay. Heather. Yeah, Heather and I actually knew each other for a couple years prior to the show. So y'all are not actually cousins?

Okay, so we are actually third cousins, I think. So my great-grandfather- So like, who cares? Yeah. So my great-grandfather and her great-grandmother were brother and sister. So I actually knew her. No, her great- Yeahmother were brother and sister. So I actually knew her. No, her great... Yeah, I don't know.

Something like that. You sound like Stassi Schroeder, who's like, we interviewed Gypsy Rose, and she was like, I'm 10th cousins or something. Yeah, I'm not. No, I actually... There's high potential that we were at a family reunion at one point in time together. Okay. High potential, but I don't know.

She grew up in Colorado. Where do you stand now with heather because heather's been under a lot of fire since the reunion oh my god yeah she has uh how do you how do you see it it's hard for me because i don't know if you remember if you've watched i have stood by the fact that I always thought Jen did it. And since the reunion of season three, I said it. I was the only one person on the stage that had raised my hand. And watching it back, piecing it all together, I feel like it's hard because Heather did keep this lie from all of us. Like the burden of the lie that she, the burden she carried from lying about

the black eye had to be so heavy and hard and i empathize with that so instead of judging her and criticizing her i'm trying to understand why she made the choice to hide it and lie about it and knowing what it's like to be under the pressure of a reality tv show i empathize with that burden and i'm gonna leave it at that like because every other component involved every other opinion i don't piece of it i just i can't imagine what it's like to have to lie to production lie to the audience lie to your cast mates and then come out with it later like that would be very hard and that's why i got up and gave her a hug how did you know that it was jen what made you suspect yeah um because it's jen shaw okay like i there's been many physical altercations that did not make it to air and i was in two of them so i just you don't mention the reunion she seems like her thing was to physically assault yeah one

time she got on my hot tub while we were filming and she ran through my house wet as a noodle and I had to tackle her in my entryway because my kids were home. I'm like, we are not going to make a physical loud scene in front of my kids. Like, not in my home. So I get like when Heather apologized to you, I get the blaming like a false accusation about production. That's fucked up. Obviously, no one likes a liar i i get that so yeah but i'm wondering why was that and just a little background on me i got into housewives this season and when i start any franchise i just

jump in wherever we're at and then i'll go back and watch so i'm fully caught up on the current season, seeing a ton of clips of some of your amazing highlights. But why was that black eye such a moment? And why was everyone trying to figure out who did it? I think it's the way that it was presented to us. And yeah, I agree. Production are our allies, our partners, and they should never be thrown under the bus like that. But Heather deflect from the truth. And I know that a lot of people are still questioning what the truth is, but based on

what I saw when I went to bed that night, they were wild. I witnessed them fall on top of a lounge then into the pool. So I knew it was going to be a rowdy night. And had Heather and I not been in a bad place, I probably would have joined them. So I'm glad that I went to bed and locked my door that night. What do you think you would have done

if you were in that position? Like, is there a real fear of Jen Shaw amongst the group? I think that there was. I think that there still is. And I don't think it's because of physicality or like threats of what Jen can do. I think it's what she knows. Oh, because a lot of, you know,

I, for the most part, like watching the final reunion, I was alarmed by how many people were supporting Monica. Fans. Were you? I was. I was.med by how many people were supporting Monica. Fans. Were you? I was. I was.

Really? And despite Heather fucking up, I thought her apology was pretty solid. You know, I'm a big believer. Like we are human. We make mistakes. You know,

you reference mistakes you made. Like it's how we handle those situations, how we respond. Do we like take account? Do we like try to like right our wrongs? And Heather tried to do that. Or Monica. Yeah.

Monica. Like the Lulu. It just. She, all she needed to do is to come to that reunion and apologize, take account of Billy and say, I am so sorry. And nothing else. And say, I did it. I, I trolled you all for four years.

I've been stalking you. I've been DMing you from fake accounts. Like I don't stalk. Yeah. trolled you all for four years i've been stalking you i've been dming you from fake accounts like i don't stalk yeah uh there's video footage of her stalking people i only drop by the four times it's like what do you call that and the fbi asked me to that's normal but yeah i know yeah back to heather though like she sat because i sat there and it was intense like andy asked her all the heavy hitting questions and she owned it. She had an answer for everything. And that's how you clear your name.

That's how you clear the situation and people can move forward with trust. And, but then she went on, watch what happens live. And there was an interesting moment that people caught on with. And she said something basically like, I hope Jen saw this basically which was like why do you still give a fuck why jen shaw approves or doesn't approve of this message and i'm wondering if you have an opinion as to why she said that and if you still think that jen shaw still has a hold over heather well it's interesting if you consider where ma like where monica came from she was jen's assistant jen's friend and then she turned on jen so the allyship is definitely not with monica

but i don't know i think that i see it from the fans perspective but i also think that i see it from heather's perspective or she's like Jen, I can speak freely about the truth. I can speak freely about you now, too. But I see both sides. Because a lot, trust me, my DMs blew up. And I haven't been on Instagram in about a week and a half. And I opened it up and I'm like, holy, I missed a shitstorm. Do you think that Jen still has any type of power over Heather? Do you think that Jen still has any type of power over Heather? That's a hard one to answer because Heather seems to be completely different now. Different how? She's no longer placating to Jen. And up until halfway through last season, I still felt that.

Okay. So there's growth. Yes. Yeah, lots of growth. And I think that Heather's a new woman. I think she has really learned a lot from this black guy situation. And, you know, now she's Variety's top 40 most powerful women. You a little jelly? No, I'm proud of her.

Okay. Yeah. I like my sit in the back, stir the pot, collect my paycheck. Was Heather the only Salt Lake City housewife on that list? Why was she? No, was she? Oh, I don't know. Oh, yeah.

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, well, why do you think she was? Why? Because she's... Versus... I mean, hello, look at her. She has a beauty empire. She wrote a book, bestseller, and the black eye...

She has receipts. Proof. Timelines. Yeah. No, that's. Proof. Timelines. Yeah. No, that's well-deserved. Okay. Let's get into the reality von Teese of it all. Do you think production knew at all about Monica?

Monica says they did. Yep. But I have a very strong relationship with my producers and I choose to have trust in them and faith in them and believe them i realize there's a lot of behind the scenes things that i don't know but but it almost sounds like okay like you want to believe them rather than deep down you do i mean until they can prove to me that i can't i believe believe them. Okay. But here's the thing. I don't think they knew.

I will be honest. I knew I had never met Monica, never seen her before, but I had obviously heard about her. Because Lisa talked about her, Heather talked about her, Andy talked about her. And we just kind of started the season of, okay, I don't know her. I've heard about her, okay i don't know her i've heard about her but i don't know her were you confused by her casting because she doesn't seem to have a housewife pedigree and to me i you know if i were a housewife i feel like i would have been like what are we doing here like what was the sense of the group yes when you found out that she was casted so from like a socio-economical standpoint yeah absolutely but from a willing

to put your life out there and quote-unquote share your life story who who knows what that really is now right because i think linda her mom was like she's the she deserves an emmy because i think that the two of them were in cahoots do Do you deserve an Emmy for just being a bad person and willing to show that on TV? No, actress. Like daytime actress soap operas. Soap operas. Yes. Soap opera.

They are a toxic, toxic duo, but great TV. Yeah. So I think that she just brought it and I think the producer saw that she was willing to do and say whatever. True. But I kind of roll my eyes at that from like a fan. It's just like, if the only

goal is to find crazy people willing to say crazy shit, that's not that hard. There needs to be something more. the problem is we all came on well most of us came on as ourselves who we are right i've shared my real life real life stories my vulnerabilities my wins my losses and how nice would it be to come on and just make up a name make up a life and be someone you're not. Like that would be amazing.

Yeah, I guess. You know, like that's what Monica, in my opinion, that's what Monica did. And she studied us for four years. So of course the producers felt compelled to pick her because she was studying for four years. Doesn't that give you the ick? Yes. It's such an icky feeling.

I literally just bought a new house. I'm moving. Yeah. Because of Monica? Not because of Monica. Why? Dude, some fans are wondering if it's because you're not going to return next season. Well, let's keep them wondering.

Oh. Okay. No, it is not because of Monica and it's not because of a lack of a return. It's because one, I can and I want to. Period. Period. And two, I, yeah, I live. In this economy?

Pop off quick. No, really, I love my fans, but my fans, my address, I didn't realize that. Is public. Is public. And so now I'm moving to a private place and no one's going to know where I live. And my kids deserve that. Put your house in a trust. Yes, exactly.

It's already done. Like we're no one's, we're going to film a dummy house where no one's going to know where I live. And I hope that everyone respects that out of the privacy for my children. I hope they do. What have you learned about like, yeah, like what it means to be a housewife? What have you learned about how to protect yourself and your family while still being able to be a housewife? how to protect yourself and your family while still being able to be a housewife? So I hate to say it because it's like being a housewife that tells the truth and sharing your real life, what's really going on, opening up your heart and soul and vulnerabilities to the process. What I've learned is that you have to have a filter at

some point in time. There has to be a yes and a no and what you're willing to compromise and what you're willing not to. I've had to learn that because I've always lived my life freely. I've never filtered myself. I've never stopped to think about what I'm about to do or say. And being a housewife, I've learned it's not just about me anymore. It's about my husband, my children, my mom, my siblings. And that was hard. So yeah, I want to be doing love is art and all these things, but there's consequences. Yeah, for sure. So it's hard. It's a hard balance because I don't want to lie and I don't want to portray something that I'm not because I'm messy and I love it. And I love hard. I learn hard. I fall

hard, but I don't know how to do that without being me. And there's, I'm trying to teach my kids that it's okay, but they go. So at school, the hardest thing is the school kids will pull up photos from the internet and like talk to my kids about stuff. And they'll find pictures from my Instagram from years ago and, you know, pictures that maybe the kids don't love of themselves. So I've kind of stopped posting my kids as sad as it maybe the kids don't love of themselves so i've kind of stopped posting my kids as sad as it is i don't really share much about them on instagram uh well as expecting parents i i get it yeah and i you know it's gonna it's tough because i think we're gonna want to like obviously share because we're so proud and we're so excited but like like people are fucking

weird and i also don't want my kids to become weird. You know, have you given thought about that, about like how aware they are of you on TV or them on TV? Yes. So when they when I started, they were nine and six. Now they're 13 and 11. And we've just had to really be open and honest with them we've had to kind of maybe push them on what normal kids that don't grow up on reality tv we've had to push further so they're probably living a little bit beyond their years which is sad but at the same time they're going up faster

and now in the past i used to explain things now they just tell me straight up they'll be like mom what the like don't ever do or say that again don't mom that is cringy mom stop like mom I'm so proud of you like one time um we have this we have a theater in our basement and Justin and I watch we get the link like a couple days early right and Justin and I were down there watching and like you guys can't come down for this episode because i just knew that i was it was the you exploited my vagina oh yes yes that's a tough watch yeah so i um asked them please don't come downstairs lo and behold they're sitting on the stairs of popcorn like watching around the corner and i thought oh no they're gonna like that's so cringy

but my daughter said to me she was mom i'm so proud of you for finally standing up for yourself i couldn't take one more time of you in a fight that you don't say something and i was like okay okay bobby sorry i mean you're gonna be on next season right yeah okay i mean i don't know if we're officially announced i think it's pretty much been announced on social media without so if there is a season you have every intention of being on it if they want you exactly okay all right good and assuming that happens do you have a goal of like what kind of whitney you're going to bring to the show? Yeah, so there's so many sides of me that haven't been seen. Like I have two businesses. I have a podcast.

I am- What's it called? Wild Rose Podcast. Okay. Subscribe, everyone. Well, yeah, I'm going to, after this, I'm pausing for, I'm going to release seasons. Well, subscribe, and then when she comes back,

she'll be ready to go. No, everyone's been questioning. I'm like, it's still here, subscribe, and then when she comes back, she'll be ready to go. No, everyone's been questioning. I'm like, it's still here, I promise. It's coming back. I have ADD so bad. Don't worry. What did you ask me? What kind of Whitney are we going to have?

Oh, we're going to see the side of Whitney that always seems to hit the editing floor. I'm strong. I do stand up for myself. I do advocate for myself and I'm gonna stop being nice just like even that's gonna go against my core and it's gonna be so hard but I if I have to be relentless in the pursuit of getting my strength out and my point of view then I'm gonna do it and it's gonna be hard for me because I lend to just being chill easy forgiving but not

this season because I know what i'm up against i mean you have going into it you know what's coming for you okay you um followed monica back after the reunion on instagram i did well i thought i unfollowed what we heard i never stopped meredith and no i never stopped following. So that might have been what it was, yeah. I never stopped following her. I unfollowed her this last week. So you don't follow her now? I don't now. Did you see all of the Burn Book photo shoot,

the Reality Von Teese photo shoot? How did you feel about her really just leaning in? That's what made me unfollow. Yeah. Even though I realize she probably has many troll accounts that are still following me. It just, you know, there's some kind of gratification of unfollowing and blocking someone like face to face. Right. But I just there's no she's she doesn't feel bad.

She's not. Did you go into that reunion willing to give her an opportunity to remain on the cast? Not that it was your decision to fire her, but were you open? I'm always open. If someone's willing to take accountability and I was willing to hear her out, but really it's in the action that follows. So someone can say, I'm sorry. and I was willing to hear her out, but really it's in the action that follows. So someone can say, I'm sorry, but then if they show up the same the next day,

the next week, the next month, then yeah, goodbye. Okay. But the fact that she couldn't even sit there and say anything at all. Yeah. I will say she did go on the record and she explained why she didn't give an apology. In an interview, she said, the reason why I did not apologize is because I'm not going to give a fake apology.

I want to get to a place where I can actually sit down and have a civil conversation. What does that mean, though? So she was saying that she didn't have the chance because everybody was talking over her. But that's implying that they, the women, owe her something before she's ready to apologize. And I don't understand why.

I don't, I don't, that annoys me i can't imagine how i mean hence the unfollow but what's interesting is there's been something that keeps i keep getting tagged in over and over and over again and it's someone saying that if you know does anyone notice that whenever monica tried to speak to other women they would just get into a screaming match but her and and Whitney would actually communicate without yelling. And I know a lot of fans are mad at me actually, because they were hoping that I would hear her out and have a conversation with her, which I did. And if you go back and rewatch it, she and I had a conversation, just, it was lost in translation because Lisa Barlow wouldn't stop yelling from the side. So Monica, I asked her a simple question and she answered it.

And that's when I told her, I said, then you lost me. What was the question? I wasn't just upset about Reality Von Teese because that's an account. I was upset by all of the text messages and conversations she had with Tanisha that Tanisha shared with us. So it's while we are filming the four years prior and while we're filming behind my back what she was saying about me versus what she was saying to my face.

And I was I was the first one to receive her. Like I was open to her. So it was hard. So but that's that's Monica's fault

because yeah I would have been open to having a conversation and we did and it was missed because of the yapper on the side. She could not shut up. Someone needs to give like duct tape needs to be involved that wouldn't even do it it's just it's so i feel like all the other reunions maybe they just know how to

argue like all the other franchises of housewives but lisa and monica and there's really monica yeah yeah i guess it was just really. Right. You were there. Yeah. Listen, I know Lisa says she's from New York, but she's lived in Utah most of her life. And women. That's what she says.

That's her excuse. No, no, no. I was born in New York. Yeah. She's like, I can't shut up. I was born in New York. You know that this is going to come up week one of filming. Yeah.

She's a New Yorker. But that makes her so much different than us. That means yelling is okay is how I interpret that. The difference between Salt Lake and other franchises, I think, is we did grow up under this suppression of women don't speak up. It's not really until my generation that women have started really advocating for themselves, standing up for themselves, having opinions, saying, no, the man's not in charge. So I think that I'm not the same generation as everyone. Please don't get mad at me. But I am a different generation.

It's not your fault to speak to that. Yeah, that my cast hates. And I just think that, yeah, it's a generational thing. I think they don't know how to really just communicate. I think everyone's learning rapidly. But women in Utah, historically, don't know how to like really just communicate i think everyone's learning rapidly but women in utah historically don't have a voice yeah it's our culture interesting it's changed a lot has lisa um lisa really came at meredith for being the gossip queen and accusing meredith of spreading all these rumors and it was, shut the fuck up, apologize, you did all this.

Yeah. Turns out it was Monica. Well, you can't have a one-way conversation. What do you mean? There was DM sent back and forth. There was conversation sent back and forth all season long. If you remember the beginning of the season, I was up Meredith's ass.

I'm like, Meredith, stop doing this. You've done it every season. She did it to Lisa season three, Jen season two. So she is guilty. She did Heather season three. Yeah, yeah. I mean, this is Meredith's,

this is her equation. All you have to do is delete name and insert next. Like Meredith has a formula and I love her. Like I love her for it because she's so in denial about it that she can't see it. It is have, I will dig up cause she's a law, like she's an attorney.

I don't think she practices, but she went to law school. Yeah. So she loves document. She loves files. She maybe got to get on here. She loves document. She loves documents. She loves facts, proof, timeline, all the things.

So where do you think Heather got all the information? Where do you think everyone gets all of their information? Meredith digs it up and gives it to someone else to bring it on camera. That way she can say, I never said it. Because in the reality TV world, all you're accountable for is who said it on camera. Because everyone can be bitches behind each other's backs and talk about it.

But who's the one that brings it on camera? Because they're the one held accountable. Are you suggesting that Meredith had a role in helping Heather find out who Reality Von Teese was? I don't know that. But I do know that Meredith has brought a lot of documents. Remember the SEC finally gets Lisa. I actively engaged in a pursuit to take Lisa down with Meredith in season three. And I backed out because I realized what I was doing and it didn't align with my core. So I know the game and I know how Meredith plays it.

And it's very respectful because she keeps her hands clean. But also I think that she learned a big lesson this season and I doubt she shows up the same next season. If she does, then bring me back on because I will let loose. You're willing to give her some grace because you think she learned a lesson. Had reality Von Teese not come out, it would have been a whodunit of Monica and Meredith. Because did the egg come before the chicken or the chicken before the egg?

Yeah. From Meredith's side, it makes sense, like, this DM of documents was everything you told me on this airplane. And then, and, like,

Monica is the one with a troll account and DMing people, so, like, we can't put it past Monica that she would make another troll account to send a DM.

Yeah. I mean, it all adds up. It could really be both of them. And there was actually a moment at a praise ski early in the season when the rumor came out about Angie, the alleged rumor about Angie's husband. Sure. Meredith, when Angie is chasing Meredith, Meredith turns around to Heather and goes, aren't you going to share the documents?

And Heather's like, what, the DMs? That's a pretty good Meredith impression. Yeah, I love and I hope Meredith receives this kindly. Did you finally recover from saying it's gross that she takes baths with her husband?

I mean, I hope so. But you think it's gross she takes a bath with her husband? It wasn't even about the bath. People miss the shade so hard there. I was shading the fact that she doesn't own a home in Salt Lake City and she rents Airbnbs every season. People missed it. I was like, I don't know doesn't own a home in Salt Lake City and she rents Airbnbs every season. People missed it. I was like, I don't know what vacation rental you're staying in. People really missed the shade there.

And it was good shade. That was good shade. Where does Meredith live? Don't give her address. I have no idea. I have no idea where they call home, where their permanent residence is, or she travels all around. She's just a nomad. Yeah.

Is it really? That's an expensive lifestyle. You all don't know where each other resides? You don't go to each other? I know where people, if you are a resident in Utah, I know where you live. And there's no shame in renting a house. Like Meredith's lifestyle is probably way more expensive than a mortgage. It's just interesting. How accurate or inaccurate are you housewives a reflection of Salt Lake City?

Because Beverly Hills housewives, hey, it's Beverly Hills. Everyone's a bit disconnected. Where do you all stand within the community? We do not represent the mass majority of Salt Lake City. How are you received by the community? For the not represent the mass majority of Salt Lake City. How are you received by the community? For the most part, well, the community of active LDS really don't like us because it's a misrepresentation of the church in their eyes and the women. And I agree. Most women in Salt Lake are driving a minivan with five kids, not working, like devout their life to their family. Devout? Devout. Devout.

Yeah. Yeah, same thing. You know, I'm not, I've always messed up the words. But there is this little pocket of people in Salt Lake that it is way more crazy than what you've even seen. Like there's Utah has a lot of little subcultures. Because it's almost I mean, I grew up very Catholic, so I'm familiar with religion. hardcore that people almost create these like secret societies because you know they can't possibly just say this is who i am and i need you to accept me because they won't be accepted so they just kind of live in this kind of underworld of of stuff yeah that's very utah but i will i do have to stand up for a lot of like a lot of the LDS people in Utah love the show too I think it's put Utah on the map like everyone I always said in the beginning

Utah's the best kept secret you know season one when they ask you like what can we expect I'm like Utah is a gem and it's the best kept secret and now I'm like the secret's out everyone stop moving to Utah stop it's a great place yeah so I think that overall Utah loves us but It's a great place. Yeah. So I think that overall,

Utah loves us, but there's definitely a few that are not loving. I find it fascinating because a lot of you, you, Heather, Monica, have a very complicated relationship with the church,

which I think, based off what I've learned about you guys, is putting it nicely. But you all seem to have still respect for it. You're willing to give credit if credit is due. Like you and Heather have a, like almost, you don't have like a hatred for a community that many of which treated you all very poorly at times. Yeah. Well, my ancestors on both sides of my family built Utah. They were Mormon pioneers and literally Utah was built by the hands of my ancestors. So I respect that legacy. Yeah. My grandfather passed and his funeral was on Monday and it was, thank you. And it was beautiful, though, to sit there and listen and be reminded of the legacy of my family. And, you know, I'm an entrepreneur. I've always worked very hard. And yeah, I'm not LDS. I removed my name from the church. I didn't just stop going. Like, I am no longer a member, but I am so proud of my heritage. longer remember but i am so proud of my heritage i think there's respect in picking up your home putting it in a handcart and going across the united states out of your faith and belief

and they persevered and they made it here and my middle name is joanna and the woman that i'm named after died coming across the plains during childbirth so there's actually a monument for her in winter quarters. So it's cool. I've done the whole, like, I went all the way up to Palmyra, New York, where Joseph Smith was born, and I've done the whole tour all the way back to Utah when I was 18. And then that same night I came home and had a beer for the first time.

How'd that feel? It was really confusing. I bet. Going into this show, you obviously knew you were going to have to air your life, your secrets. One of them, obviously, being that you had an affair with your boss. Yeah, that was hot. That was hot. Obviously, your children are going to watch that back.

So did you have that conversation with them? Do they know? Did they find out from the show? How did that kind of happen in your family? Well, you know, I have three older stepsons, right? And are you their step-grandma? Okay, so I'm a grandma. You're a grandma.

Yeah, I'm a grandma. Yeah, I'm a grandma through marriage. And I. Yeah, I'm a grandma. Yeah, I'm a grandma through marriage. And I claim them. I love Jimmy and Henry so much. So my oldest stepson is five years younger than me. We went to college together and we shared a moped. He'd watch my daughter in the morning and then I would come home from school and then he'd go to school. So, yeah, we're very open.

I think that when you, I don't condone cheating. I don't think that it's something to be proud of, but it's how I met my husband. It's the truth. So you have to figure out a way to own it. And it's my story. So either I tell it or everyone else does. Yeah. when we started the show my kids were too young right to like to like understand yeah understand but now we've had full conversations i think the point i was trying to make is my stepkids obviously already knew okay because they were they were old enough to understand what was happening in the moment because it's like you have to beat the other kids at school who have families and watch and show yeah you have to beat them but also still wait until they're old enough to understand or grasp so i can see how that would be hard so i can't wait until you experience this

with your daughter when we had to have the conversation after season two of love is art that was a hard one with the kids yeah my daughter we we prepped them for um we did like a what is it called like a role play where we're asking them questions like possibly what kids might ask at school and my daughter straight up goes yeah that's my mom are you jealous oh love so i can't wait for you to experience this with your daughter of that bond of like, you know, you're embarrassing me, but I love you and I'm going to protect you. Yeah. Like having a daughter is very cool, especially as your firstborn. What did you have to learn?

Because like it is, you know, again, we always we make mistakes. We learn from them. Yours is complicated because you married, you made a mistake, but yet it led to love and children. So what were you still able to learn from that mistake, even though it still brought you so much joy? To not be so hard on myself and to forgive myself, because obviously this is my life path. And there was, you know, I'm still figuring out what the lessons were, but I wasn't supposed to walk the path that, you know, my siblings did. Like, I met Justin at a point in time that it was hard to get together. But here we are, 14 years married, 16 together, two kids, I have three stepkids, two grandkids.

Do they call you grandma? They call me Mama Wit. I wish. I keep asking asking them to but they're like you're weird um you're like it's a kink yeah i think it's just like being like i guess it's just giving yourself being kind to yourself and honoring that your path might not look like everyone else's but as long as you're moving forward you're in the right direction when did you first find out that monica was reality of aunties was it in fact on the beach when heather told you for me it was on the beach in the moment how hard was it for you to go to that dinner because it was

like this whole you know you all found out. Like pick a fight with Lisa. Yeah, like you were so chill. Like how, how did you not just like storm into Monica's? Because we made a pact on that beach when we found out

that like, okay, we're like, we may all have our differences and fight time to time, not agree,

but we're a sisterhood. That moment was so hard, but it bonded us on a level that we've never bonded on before. And so we knew that to get to call Monica out, like, yeah, we still had a whole dinner to go through. And I'm proud of everyone. I mean, the fact that Lisa could wait two hours, that was impressive. Yeah, truly. And you guys made iconic television.

Yeah. And it was, I have to to say that was no production involved at all that was just us trying to figure out we're all making eye contact and poor angie had no idea what was going on she deserved to be in the inner circle but at that point in time it made sense that it was just the ogs yeah okay and for all the fans out there who are like well heather fucked up too and yeah monica fucked up but why is she you know getting fired for this what would you say to them because monica used us to get here yeah as someone who's been on reality tv i mean when that went down i knew i like i knew how you all felt

like i was like this is so fucked like beyond belief and again this is not to say that what monica did is the is murdering children as monica well like to point out that that apparently is the only way you could be a bad person interesting that said a lot about monica i mean it revealed a lot honestly like that was the, I was like, oh, it all kind of made sense. That's your floor.

That's, and as long as you're above that, you think you're fine. And that makes her dangerous. So dangerous. There is a, you know, we come after each other for everything,

but there is a level of respect and it may not seem like it because the fights do get pretty below the belt sometimes but monica doesn't have that like you said like her floor is the basement of like negative 13 floors yeah and it's like you know i'm bachelor world right like there are plenty of people who come on the show who get casted that you meet and like they were fans of the franchise before they got casted and that that's totally fine that's totally fine yeah you were a fan whatever i was a fan when i but what monica is or what she conveys is goes way beyond fan it goes to levels of obsession and unhealthy behavior

she brought out the burn book and made it seem like you all were going to laugh. I think that she thought the burn book was going to be this big hit, especially with the fans. I don't think she really cared about us. She put a lot of effort into it. I think it was all about the fans. I think she knew that Mean Girls was coming out.

And I think that she honestly played into that. And I think that was smart from whatever line of thinking, wherever she pulled that from. Yeah, I get what you're saying. I can track where she thought and it had nothing to do with us. It was not about us

giving her forgiveness. It was about the fans making her iconic. She was like, oh, I'll just make fun of myself and it'll be all okay. But it fell flat on her face. Oh my God, it was so weird.

I will never forget when she pulled it out and Andy looked over and he looks at all of us and we're all looking at each other like, oh my God, no. I'm like, what are you doing? It was so weird. Yeah, it was the biggest mess of all time, I think. But I saw my pages in the burn book and mine weren't bad. Reality Von Teese didn't come after me very much. It was more behind the scenes of post this about Whitney and see what people say. And mine weren't bad. Reality Von Teese didn't come after me very much.

It was more behind the scenes of post this about Whitney and see what people say. And then there was other accounts in question tied to Reality Von Teese that were much worse. And one of them did come after me and my family pretty hard. And so I assume it is her. I have to. I was going to say, can you explain what was in the burn book? Because from a viewer standpoint, it looks like she just brought it out and then they just kind of moved on. But you obviously saw what was in it.

Yeah, she specifically showed me my page. And then one of my makeup artists that I work with in Salt Lake City works with her as well. And he stopped photos of my page and was like, can you try to get me know see her side of it whatever and so really it was in the beginning poking fun at herself saying that you know she she was trying to victimize herself in a way and then at the end was all of the receipts of the reality volunteers page and i don't know why she thinks that us re reading like we already have we already have it we already know like we are tagged in it thousands and thousands of times. I think what she was trying to do

and why she led with herself, she was basically saying, I can laugh at myself, but you all can't. Can't, yeah. And this isn't a big deal. Regina George. You know,

and it's like, that's not what that is. This is you being creepy and weird. Yeah, and this is our real life. Like everything in that book that they were posting about

are our husbands, our children, our businesses. Like that's you don't mess around with that. And that's the thing. It's just like this is when I say fan, like we're so appreciative of the people who's in the show and the fans of all these franchises. But there are certain people who don't respect boundaries, who don't see us as human beings they see us as characters on a show and just think that we're just so completely fair game and clearly that's how monica saw you all they didn't see you as human beings she saw you as entities to fuck with and as long as she was

willing to do the same she didn't see the difference so i think that's beautifully said so what character do you think she was stepping into because like yeah yeah the villain it's almost like she was a what is it called like a trope of like every major villain on house a trope yeah a trope yeah a trope i would say the wrong thing hey listen i have a big education i am from utah i grew up on a farm all the fucking time. Apparently I have an accent that I wasn't even aware about. Aware of. Yeah, that everyone apparently can do so well.

Yours? They did it at the reunion and it honestly was, none of it tracked. Monica's Elisa was great. It's iconic. It's because she has been working on it for four years. And she's also right. It's not that hard. I can't do impressions and i feel like i could maybe do a lisa she is she does have a very deep voice what is your relationship with lisa currently at this

moment have you ever heard lisa apologize without being dismissive i'm sorry whatever you know nothing not that like a genuine apology apology. A sincere apology without a but, and, if, or. Yeah, without any type of. I can't say that I have. Yeah, she doesn't strike me as someone who. So TBD of our current relationship. Because my thing with Lisa, and you know, I have to play my cards right. Because we are headed into season five.

So I have to be careful. You've got time for them to forget. Oh, girl, she's going to put this on her phone and show up in scene and be like at what day is it the 20 whatever at this time that i mean why live in fear who gives a shit like it's just because she plots and she'll strategize and i am just trying to play this is housewives 101 you play you keep your cards close to your chest. But I will say this. Where Lisa, she's upset with me over something.

And it's just the fact that I called her out for making everything about herself, which she does. How's that not obvious to her? Yeah. But it's not like I'm like, I was just trying to have a conversation with her. And she's so mad at me because she thinks i said that she didn't reach out when my best friend died and all she cares about is that i said yeah you didn't and you make everything about yourself and instead of understanding someone's feelings and perspective like all she needed to say is i'm sorry i hurt your feelings and i would have said thank you and instead she has to prove

that she is right well she's she doesn't care about anything else other than being right and she her it's hard to be her friend because sharing your feelings yeah and like but even just sharing your feelings or your perspective you are wrong and so i'm just done trying to be in a friendship that isn't a two-way street. Yeah, it's always frustrating. Someone's like, well, it's how I feel. It's like, no, yeah, I get it. And you're entitled to your feelings, but I may feel differently. And your feelings aren't more important than mine.

Yeah, and I lived in San Francisco for six years. And going down those one-way roads got exhausting and confusing. So I am not doing that anymore. I can't tell you how many times I went down the wrong way. Until you learn your lesson, I'm not doing it anymore. It's true. I'm no longer going down a one-way road. I'll take a

fucking highway over a one-way road. A lot of people are concerned despite Monica's character that she was excellent television and that this next season will suffer from her not being a part of it. What would you say to that? People were concerned when Mary didn't come back.

People were concerned when Jen didn't come back. And look at us now. Every season gets better and better and better. I promise you, Salt Lake City, it is a gem. Okay. People don't need to be concerned. Are you expecting them to cast her replacement or go with what we have?

Nick, we already have her replacement. She's been here for four years. Am I missing it? Who? Mary? No, I guess it's not her replacement. We already have that person. Who is it?

You. Me? Lisa Barlow. Oh. Oh. Being the next villain.isa's always been the villain but she was to me you know lisa if you're listening to this i've never met you so no offense but like i kind of can't stand her you're an iconic villain lisa okay you are the salt lake icon she really is so like bravo con and. She's always on the icon panel. So like she's she represents Salt Lake City. Yeah, but she's kind of insufferable.

It's fine. But like, yeah. The whole makeup thing. Come on. But no, I actually I kind of I know a little bit about that. And I yeah, it's gonna be I don't think we need a Monica because we have enough personalities as it is. So you're not expecting them to cast someone new? I mean, we always bring on friends. Okay. Are there any friends you want to bring back? Or like if you had the choice, would you bring anybody back?

Yeah, I always thought Dana, but now she's friends with Monica. I saw that, yeah. So, but she's still my friend. I don't know. But you have a mutual who's friends with Monica? Mm-hmm. Are there people in your community that are s friends with Monica? Mm-hmm. Are there people in your community

that are siding with Monica or trying to get you all to forgive Monica? Not anymore. Andy Cohen, following the reunion on his radio show, didn't put like a nail

in the coffin, so to speak, when it came to Monica. He kind of referenced it as more of a cooling off period. And maybe Monica won't be on next season, when it came to Monica. He kind of referenced it as a more of a cooling off period. And maybe Monica won't be on next season, but like seemed to let things open-ended going forward. How did that make you feel? Uneasy. Okay. Yeah. Very uneasy because there's so much going on in the Bravo world right now and in reality TV where I think the stakes are higher of people

like myself who are on TV are like enough is enough like we're not going to take this like so I think Bravo I don't know what they're thinking I haven't really had a full conversation with them yet but I'm glad to see that they made the decision they made okay yeah because that means that they really do care about us and did you all go to bravo kind of as a united front to say it's us or her no we never went as like a united front ever i think that we all had our private concerns i mean but it was never a us or her thing ever like that's not how it works we can be delusional enough to think that we, like, that's not how it works.

Yeah, and that, for anyone who's still struggling, and again, I'm as sad as anyone to not get the drama that Monica brought, but like, Monica admitted to like

putting a camera in Jen Shah's house and watching it. That's so fucked. It's so fucked. That's beyond. It's beyond fucked. It's beyond. And then it's beyond and then would

slip up and like say conversations she heard as if someone told her like the whole snoop dog thing it's like lisa and that must have been a creepy feeling when lisa finally put that together where she's like i never told you that and then when she found out like all this stuff came to light i can't imagine lisa being like it's me she was in the car with jen when lisa was at the airport so i i got the backstory to that and it is so creepy can you share yeah no monica was in jen's car and lisa and jen were on a phone call and something about snoop and i don't... Weird. Yeah, but the fact that Monica was listening to the conversation and used it as if...

Yeah, because... Did she steal from Meredith's store? She was a part of that group that stole the clutches for sure. Yeah, she was the blonde in the mask. Monica's a criminal. Yeah, she has a criminal history. Criminal record. Yeah. I don't even mean that... Sure, yeah. That too, but it's... blonde in the mask monica's a criminal yeah she has a criminal history criminal record yeah but

it's like you know i don't even mean that like sure yeah that too but like it's her actions are one of a criminal like she is a con artist she maneuvers and you know i wasn't lisa it might have been lisa it was either her or lisa her or Heather, rather that like kind of said, this is why we feel the way we do. Because when you put it all together from the time in which she started working for Jen, she like, it is such a creepy storyline. I mean,

impressive maybe, I guess, but like, it's so Machiavellian in nature that it's such an, it's such an ick. Do you think it's just fans who just want the drama and they're just like selfishly don't want to lose monica that like i i i really am almost frustrated with the fans that and i see it online that are mad that monica's gone yeah no i again i

i do see the fans perspective is they don't get it they don't get what's at stake for the rest of us and what that feels like for us for fans they're just checking out and watching this show and monica brought the entertainment she brought like she brought a lot of entertaining things but but also you could probably i'm guessing that the show knew how the season played out and that's part of the reason why monica was probably such a feature and such a focus. She's the star. Because, well, they probably anticipated this being a one and done situation. So, you know, they could have edited differently, but they used what they had because this season

really was about reality of Antis. So they had to show Monica. Yeah. She had to be the star. And when you're dealing with someone of this nature you talked about machiavelli because catholic upbringing yeah um i went to a catholic college oh did you yeah um it like let's go back to moses in the bible eye for an eye troll for a troll like that's when you when you're dealing with someone like monica you have to go back to those basic universal principles yeah

because otherwise this opens up the gate for anyone to come in any and anyone to wreck your life and i've jen was bad but jen was casted as an og like they found jen monica that voice recording of her saying kim Kim K's assistant. I remember that. Kim K was Paris Hilton's assistant. Yeah. Thank you. I like, to be honest with you, I had to fast forward through my own reunion.

It's really crazy, the psychology of it. Because you think about her mom. And when she told that story, which was sad, when Monica told the story about her mom abandoning her and going to New York to be a star, I get why Monica is the way she is. Because she's just competing to her dreams, Monica's, I'm going to do what you couldn't do. And I think just that motive, I think that is who she is at her core. And it's so sad because Linda came back and tried to discredit Monica. Linda was active on Twitter while the episodes were airing. It was nasty. And a Greek Easter at Angie's house, I remember

sitting there, Linda was sitting with the guys and she was like, OK, let's talk about sports. Like she was just trying to fit in. And I remember the guys when she got up and left. We were like, she wants to be a housewife so bad. Give Linda the snowflake. Like she was trying to take it from Monica. And I, you know, I felt bad for Monica because I know what it's like to grow up in dysfunction and that's where she really got me I mean like I woke up like in bed with her the morning of the when we found out the reality of Antiz is coming out because I was out on the beach that trip was hard because I lost my best friend like a couple days before and I had to go to Bermuda and I was just having a moment out on the beach and finally producers like you have to come in this is a safety issue I'm like just leave me alone I'm mourning and Monica was great to me like she was there for me and so to wake up in bed with the enemy the next day I was just like how big of an actress are you and then like now that I have that perspective looking back on it I'm like were you and your mom i don't want to discredit her

lived in experience that she claims but now i don't believe anything that's what i said like i don't believe anything anymore because my dad and i have been estranged for two years now in fact my aunt called me on the way here to give me an update on my father and like when things are that bad and you really do want to change like you change them well that's the thing and and i'm not i don't want to i don't want to discredit anyone who hasn't stepped outside of their abusive situation yet or their dysfunctional situation because that takes that everyone's on their own path and some people never get out of it in this lifetime but it's still not an excuse that doesn't give any adult an excuse to use that

trauma they experienced to traumatize others. Yes. And I was told that Monica said to someone that if she uses the abuse dysfunction card, she can get in with me. And that's when I was like, okay, if she's not going to take accountability for anything, then. So I just wish Monica the best. So scary. And I hope that whatever is in her future, I hope that she changes for her daughters because I've met them. I know them. I've spent time with them.

Well, we have all seen how her mom treats her. Yes. Have you seen parallels with Monica and her children? No, I have not actually. I've seen the opposite. I've seen a very confusing. It was always so confusing for me to rationalize who is Monica. Because the mom I saw was very kind, gentle, loving.

And then. Action. Yeah. I'm really happy to hear Action. Yeah. And then... But that's... I mean, I'm really happy to hear that. Yeah. That she is at least not doing that with her children. I mean, I haven't been around them since we wrapped. So I don't know.

What do you think her next move is? Because she will make one. Yeah. Oh, I just hope it's not us. You're out of the line of fire. I don't know. I feel like she's a great actress, so maybe she should go do some training

and get on some daytime TV. I don't know. Yeah, she might have burned that bridge. Maybe Bravo will find another spot for her. Yeah, maybe. House of Villains. There's always that. What is that?

Oh, it's a show that- A show with all the villains. All the villains. Oh, House of Villains. Yeah. I haven't watched it yet. I haven't seen it, but people like it. I know everyone's raving about the Traitors.

Traitors, yeah. We're big fans of Traitors. Yeah, we've been covering it on Reality Recap. A little plug. Would you go on traders do you think i'd be good on traders you're a housewife so i think there's a natural skill set that you have developed face yeah and you'll probably have alliances seems like they don't yeah and my biggest weapon is i'm smarter than people give me credit for yeah you and my voice

is high and my size is small, but that's my biggest let. You could squeak that voice a little bit, dye that hair a little bit more blonde. I know. I took out the extensions and chopped my hair, so I have my natural hair right now. I'm like, what is happening? I haven't seen my natural hair color in years. It looks great. That's your natural color?

I mean, I have a few little highlights, but yeah, this is my natural. It's gotten pretty dark. Welcome to the dark side. Looks great. I'm kind of liking it. It's kind of fun. I just need a spray tan. It's kind of dark. Welcome to the dark side. Looks great. I'm kind of liking it. It's kind of fun. I just need a spray tan. It's kind of fun.

No, you don't. What are you more likely to do? Traders or Special Forces? Are you familiar with Special Forces? I mean, only because of Scandival. I haven't watched it, but I saw that Tom was on it. Did you follow Scandival? Of course I did.

What were your thoughts? I'm friends with the majority of Vanderpump cast. Are you? I love Vanderpump. I love the Toms. I've spent a lot of time in WeHo with the Toms. So that was hard for me. I've spent a lot of time

with Ariana and Tom in here in WeHo. And it was hard for me when all that came out because I knew them as a couple personally. What do you think of Tom Sandoval?

I wish him the best. I'm going to have to go watch that, what's that show called? Special Forces? Yeah. I saw him at BravoCon and I had no idea what I'd say to him if I saw him my husband talked to him and I just kind of went okay why just because you were afraid to interact with him or were you mad at him for what he did to Ariana like yeah okay I it's it's not I don't know I haven't figured it out yet. I need to maybe have a few conversations with them.

We are, yeah. The Tom that I knew, it just isn't the Tom that's presenting right now. How about that? Okay. And who is the Tom that you knew? Like, fun. Ariana was his queen. Tom is fun.

Like, very, like, he would always always be like can we get you anything like can we help you out like i remember us girls were up at beaches or somewhere on upper level and he was like catering to everyone like do you need water what do you need what can i help you get you know like he was very caring and then to see this kind of like more weasley slimy like version of himself come out was confusing for me but i still wish like he's still i don't say we're friends i'm more friends with tom shorts okay i i i wish well both the toms but i told this to tom when he was on uh i wish him peace yeah i want him to figure his shit out i really do because i got to got to know Tom, and, you know, after Scandival, I was on the show with him. And, like, yeah, he's got good sides to him.

But there's this, he seems very, very resistant to growth. It's the whole thing of just say I'm sorry and take accountability. Maybe go on pause for, like, at least a month. Just let it pass for a month. Don't come out with a podcast that's, like, rubbing the i mean it's brilliant marketing i don't know you do his marketing is pretty good i have to yeah i mean maybe i need to do better at that but i don't know until you walk someone's path it's hard to to say but obviously i'm like women empowerment so go ariana okay all right well we're going to take a break from the hard hitting questions.

We're leveling at you. And are you ready for some texting office hours? And then we'll come back and have some final questions for Whitney and send her on her way. All right. It's time for texting office hours. Peloton, you know,

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How's it going? Hi, I'm Sarah. I'm 29. how's it going hi i'm sarah i'm 29 i'm from orange county and i dated a real ex-husband from the real housewives of orange county and i'm having trouble coping with his cruelty after our breakup okay um are you able to reveal who this is can i guess yes wait is he still on is he still so he's an ex-house husband is his ex-wife still on but he was on a couple seasons okay his wife's still on she's still a housewife no okay i it's um what's that guy's name it's not it's like sway it's not right already yeah

you know who i'm talking about gretchen's ex who you're talking about is it gretchen's ex-husband no slayed swayed her name is Bronwyn and I dated Sean. I don't know who this is. Who is this person? Bring her, Allie. Bronwyn was on, I think, I don't know,

I didn't really watch the show before her, like 15 maybe? Yeah, she was on just a couple years before Salt Lake started. She left him for a woman, many women,

and then she's good now. Like I really, we vibe, we're good now. Like an enemy of an enemy is my friend. Yeah. And does she know you're calling?

Yeah, we talked this morning. Yeah, I know Bronwyn. Tell Bronwyn I said hi. Yeah, hey. Oh,

wow. We were texting this morning. I called her just like before. Okay, wait, you dated Sean? Yeah, I did.

And it was stupid. Do you know Sean? Do you know him? I don't know him, but I know Bronwyn. I've met Bron did. And it was stupid. Do you know Sean? Do you know him? I don't know him, but I know Bronwyn. I've met Bronwyn. I know Bronwyn. What does Sean look like? I know so much about that relationship that is just beyond.

Like, I learned that you can never trust what you see online. Yeah, well, that is true. How did you meet him? Wow. So, technically, my hairstylist is, well was the like best friends with her makeup stylist on the show. And so because we had mutuals, he liked like a bunch of my photos

and then messaged me and we met up for coffee. I'm telling you, it's always the glam. All of the messiness. Right? All the drama. I'm like, honestly though, I'm like the most basic, like never had anything done,

like want to. So he sought you out through photos? Oh, he's a hockey player? But you have to keep in mind, like at first I thought like, this is a rich guy. I know I'm from the show a little bit. I didn't really watch it at the time.

And because I was watching back when like Gretchen and Tamara were on it, you know, like in high school, like way back in the day. And so like, I'm just seeing him and then when we meet he's like oh there might be camera it was very weird it was very weird did he use the cameras to lure you in to date him no not at all what was that what he was trying to

say though when I did it there might be cameras it might be weird he's like flexing no he said that in person and it freaked me the hell out okay yeah yeah like I was like what are you talking about like who are you what is happening are you on cheaters like what is happening how long do y'all day for 13 months oh wow and you know what's upsetting is that there have been interviews if you really go back to like April last year and there are interviews where a girlfriend is mentioned as being like super young and stupid and whatever. There was a lot of animosity between us because of what he said to her and versus like what I was told by him and realizing he was a liar and all of this.

I don't know. It was, it was a lot in 13 months, but. All right. So other than the kind of the shock value of who this is all about how how what are you actually struggling with and how can we help we met mutual friends went out for coffee started dating second date i'm meeting all of his kids and he has seven on like the second date that's kind of weird very weird and it is weird like it was intimidating for me i wasn't prepared i'm a step mom to kids close to my age that's weird yeah it is weird. Like it was intimidating for me. I wasn't prepared. I'm a stepmom to kids close to my age. That's weird. It is weird.

Yeah. And I was like astonished by it. And then of course you want to like hook up the night. Everything's going on. So it started in 2021. We dated. And then in February of 2022, Bronwyn first heard from her kids that we were hanging out, that I had seen them.

And I didn't know that she didn't know. And she flipped the hell out respectfully were they married at the time yeah technically oh okay I don't know shit did she have her girlfriend yet though um she had Vic at the time okay yeah so they were like nesting and doing this thing where they would like stay at the same house in Newport yeah I have friends which caused animosity because then they would judge each other off like what each was doing when they were gone. Stupid. And then, um, I would see his kids all the time, but then come February, I think Koa, who's like this, I think she might be like six or seven now.

I had said something like playfully to her mom, like she should, she's five, you know? And she freaks the hell out. And I start getting harassing messages, DMs, posts, like comments. And she would say the most vile things to me. Understandably now, like looking back, understanding the situation, I get it. But like at the time it was a lot. I mean, sent me stuff like you're trash. No one wants you on earth. You shouldn't be here.

You're disgusting. You're a whore. I'm going to call your job and tell them that you have a dui like the worst oh my and i'm 27 hurt people hurt people you know yeah she's upset sorry and i know that there's a lot of red flags in this like obviously he's going through a separation has seven kids and is 20 years older than me i get it in retrospect but like i don know. I was like really into them, you know? And he was telling me he loved me a bunch. So all this stuff is going on with Bronwyn. I'm 27. I'm trying to act like I'm as mature as these people. I don't say anything. I never responded to her out of 13

months for 12 months. I did not ever respond to a message, a DM, anything because that's the mother of his children. So I have no place, no right to disrespect anything she's asking. Eventually what happens is on my birthday in October, 2022, we break up because he couldn't stand up for me. Couldn't put his foot down. I feel like he was still in love with her. And then also he showed up two hours late to my birthday dinner. And then like the next night we had planned for my birthday. He didn't show up. Like just no text, just didn't show up. Um, so I broke up with him the next day on Halloween and then I never got an apology. I never got anything back. I had to beg him for my keys back to my apartment, which he was living in half the time, by the way, because the money is not all

there. Like it's, I don't know. It's just, it's very toxic. I mean, I just read an article that he like stole all their money or something. Yeah. and i'm part of that article like if you look back to like april it's like he's spending it all on her but he's not paying child support he is living with the girlfriend now that is new but point is we broke up no apology no nothing i had to beg him for my keys back and And then it's been, this happened very recently, like a week ago, he's been dating some new girl that he's posted about. Um, don't know her name, never seen her in my life. Don't know her handle where she lives, nothing. And I get a slew of like degrading messages from his profile. And I have like the screenshots to prove

it. You're fat, you have cellulite, you're too, too white, too ugly. And then she said something along the lines and feel free to bleep this out if you want, but like, I'm pregnant with his baby. We're going to and drop it on your fucking front porch. Like it's disgusting to the point where I was straight up like, is this okay? And I told them, so I get all these messages. So is this coming from his new girlfriend or him? From his account. And I don't know that it's his girlfriend at the time. You think it's coming from him? It's coming literally from Sean Burke's account. Yeah. Wow. And he had had me blocked. So I was like, whatever, like, this is weird. So instead of texting, I just decided to like call him and be like, what the fuck is going on? So I call him and the girl answers. And I, and immediately when she

answers, when she says hello i'm just like oh this is the new girlfriend got it hung up block the profile and then i get messages from linkedin like linkedin of all places why is she harassing you though i don't know and it's so weird because i don't know her name bronwyn barely knows her has never met her knows her name is nikki but like doesn't know her but what handle is she using to reach out to you? Or is it Sean? Why does she have his? It's his. It's his.

I can show you literally through the screen, like from his profile. It's so weird. Like it's, it was from his. So I call him that night and I'm like, what the fuck is going on? The girl answers. She hangs up. I'm like, okay, that's cool. She keeps sending messages through TikTok, Facebook, LinkedIn.

I'm blocking them, blocking them. Starts making big profiles and going after me, responding to I'm blocking them, blocking them. Starts making big profiles and going after me, responding to my stories of like joking about it. And I figure, look, this guy works a full-time job. I'm going to call him the next day knowing he's not going to be with her like at his work. I call him and this is the end of it. And I call him at like 11 AM. And I was like, what the fuck happened?, if your girl messages me one more time, I'm going to the police. She knew where I worked. She knew where I lived. She knew every detail about me, which is weird because I don't know her name. It's her name, Monica. And she's like my age, I think. And I just so I threatened him with that. And then his response.

And this is the gist of it. He responded with, I don't know why you're so upset. I never loved you. You were just there. You were just an object to me. Verbatim, I have it also in a text. So my problem is, is why do you guys say that? Like he lived with me like half the time. Like I have a one bedroom apartment in Orange County.

It's not like glamorous. You know, it's a lot for like someone trying to do their best, but like, it's not, he was, it's not Coda to Casa, you know? So what are you struggling? I mean, those are very hurtful things to hear, no doubt from anyone, but what are you struggling with? Mostly when a guy after a relationship comes at you and says, after obviously saying he loves you a bunch and being with you, why feel the need when you're proclaiming to the world that you have this new girl that you love? Why feel the need to reduce a woman, your ex, like an object saying you never loved her? And did he mean that? And

if he didn't, am I, is he an asshole? Or if he did, am I stupid? Are you wondering if he's an asshole? No, he's an asshole. But't know he's an asshole but i'm wondering more on like because this hasn't been the first time this has happened with men in my life of a guy loving you love bombing you leaving you and then acting like he never loved you why do guys do that i can't speak for all men well obviously um but unfortunately there are shitty people out there you know and there are self-centered people out there unfortunately there are shitty people out there you know and there are self-centered people out there and there are toxic people out there abusive people out there and he as you recognize when you tell this story i mean i don't know how you hear this story but it sounds

nuts from our point it is actually fucking crazy and we've all like housewives yeah we all make mistakes it was a year of that we all chase the wrong people you know if you listen to this show we all you know chase validation and all those things but like you need to be able to look back and see this story how we see this story you know when when this episode comes out and you listen to this and hear yourself talk i mean being serious you should like honestly listen to it as if like you're not the caller a lot of people do actually when they call on this show and you should hear how it sounds. You know, again, I can't speak for all men, but like.

This isn't like the first time it's happened though. Like other guys have treated me like shit after. And I just don't feel that I don't get the random reaching out to just make someone feel like shit for no reason. Can I step in for a second? Please. I wouldn't generalize to say it's a guy thing. This is a person thing. This is a human thing. And this might be hard to hear, but I'm going to say it because I want you to succeed. So this is a cycle that you found yourself in, right? Yeah.

People that don't love me. Yeah. And that you're attracting attracting you're attracted to this type of person so clearly there is some sort of cycle that you are personally stuck in and you know like nick said listen to this and maybe pick out something that resonates with you of that you can recognize that oh that's it this is where i trip up this is what i need to look inward on. But only you can answer that for yourself. For me personally, I lived in a cycle for 36 years. And finally one day I said, enough, I'm done. I cannot do that anymore. But it was hard to look at myself in the mirror to realize that I was the person allowing it to happen. And I was seeking validation in the wrong way.

Yeah. Yeah. And it's been 14 months. I haven't dated anyone. I haven't been with anyone. It really took on me during the relationship. And then obviously afterwards, it's just continued. I take accountability for the fact that I obviously have a low self-worth. Like who would be in that

situation who had self-respect? Like I, and that's, I'm so grateful because I've grown in that aspect. So I do know that it sounds loony tunes and it was, but I have learned from it, but I guess my lingering question is just, I just feel so stupid. Like I know I was young. I was 27. I'm still only 29. I'm young, but you do grow in the twenties, like exponentially. I mean, we all make mistakes. I had this conversation with someone I care about recently. You're still thinking very much about like what this says about you.

Yeah. I'm insecure. And you are still giving him the power to determine your own self-worth. You know, why would he do this? Who gives a shit? He's a dick. He wanted to hurt you. But you are still evaluating the relationship. What did it mean? Did he ever love me? I don't know. I don't care. As someone who's listening to your story, I just know it sounds like this guy is not capable of genuine love of putting other people before him of being

empathetic and compassionate and selfless and caring he has a track record of this and you just have to see it for what it is you know that's so hard to after coming out of like being cheated on abused you know what i mean like it is genuinely hard it's easier said than done obviously but i get it and i'm sure there are points of your relationship where you had probably fun with them and despite all the horrible stories that you have about the relationship now you want that relationship to mean something it was 13 months of your life you know and it's hard to lose that stuff but instead of trying to find meaning in something that's over like you just have to start seeing it for what it is. Like you ignoring red flags, you know, you giving him an opportunity to make you feel special because you can't do that on

your own right now. And just recognizing that, putting it out there. All right. And now, and instead of beating yourself up, well, I'm stupid. I couldn't have done this and feeling sorry for yourself because that doesn't get you anywhere. Yeah. You just do something about it. Are you in therapy? Yeah. Yes. I've tried. I mean, this has been like, our relationship ended in like October. So it's been, I'm good. But you're still, but you're still struggling. And maybe it's a journey. I'm struggling with just the verbiage of like, you're just an object.

Like you were nothing. I think that's what got me versus the relationship ending. Like I don't really give a shit. The people who know you know how to hurt you. You know, he knows what to say. He's trying to hurt you. Also, why have we not blocked this person? That's a good question.

I think I unblocked him to call him that day, but usually we've been blocked on everything. Usually. So that means you've gone back and forth a good question. I think I unblocked him to call him that day, but usually we've been blocked on everything. Usually. So that means you've gone back and forth a little bit. No, that means that when his girlfriend started messaging from his account, they had to unblock me. So he had done like social media. I did like numbers.

You know what I mean? Like- Yeah, no, listen, I think you like the drama. I can't determine when he unlocks me. Who gives a, no, it doesn't matter. I don't care about how he follows you or not follows you. I shouldn't have responded. You're right. You need to you need to eliminate yeah you can't let these people have access and so you're you're allowing him to have access uh and you should ask yourself why

you know i wanted the sorry i'm never gonna get the sorry you're never gonna get sorry he's not sorry he's not sorry i've never broken up with a guy and not gotten him like crying to me three months not that i'm like a special like little thing, but I'm just saying like. That's your ego. Yeah. That's you're saying, oh, well, it didn't work out. So I need him to regret it. I need him to be sorry.

And I'm going to leave this door open just in case. And that's why you don't block him. He's going to. Because you're giving him an opportunity to come back. Well, you got. And I say this with love. You kind of have to get over yourself and your ego. And then you have to ask yourself, again, what kind of relationships do you want?

At some point, you're clearly an intelligent person. Whitney got to a point where she's like, you know what? I'm done. I'm done doing this. And you kind of have to take accountability and do the work. And I'm glad you're in therapy and doing the work. But just going to therapy is a start. And it's a great start because that's hard to do. But you might not necessarily be applying what you're learning in therapy, or maybe you don't have a good therapist. You need

a new one. I don't know. I've also been sober, which I have to say in the past 30 days. Amazing. Awesome. Congratulations. For whoever wants to do it. That's awesome. So that's progress. It's just nice to be clear- headed. Eventually you're, you're going to have to recognize as Whitney's pointed out that when it comes to bringing drama into your life, you are fully responsible. 100%. And you have totally agree. And you have tools like blocking literal, like literal tools, uh, and then tools that

hopefully you're learning in therapy to hold yourself accountable to limit these toxic people from your circle. That's how you learn to receive attention, love and validation. And your body doesn't know the difference between positive and negative attention. It just seeks validation. It's stimulation. Like the adrenaline rush. Are you capable of forgiving yourself? Because hearing you talk, hearing Nick's great advice, are you capable of forgiving yourself? Could you look at yourself in the mirror right now and say, I am sorry? I think I could do it to other people more than myself. And I feel like you could understand that.

Like, I can't talk about it because I'll get. Yeah. But it's a little hard. I challenge you then, when you feel ready, look at yourself in the mirror. Just take a quiet moment. Yeah. And say because I'll get. Yeah. It's a little hard. I challenge you then when you feel ready, look at yourself in the mirror. Just take a quiet moment. Yeah. And say, I'm sorry

that I've allowed you to do this, but we're making changes and it's okay if I mess up and do it again, but I'll get better and better with time. Yeah. And 2024 is going to be awesome.

There you go. It is. It's a year of abundance, baby. It is. Yeah. All right of abundance, baby. It is. Yeah. All right, guys. Can I make a suggestion? Yeah, of course you can.

I don't know how close you are with, what's the housewife's name? Bronwyn. I think you need to say goodbye to her, too. No offense to her. It's no offense to her. It's not, she's not the problem, but she is part of that world. It's keeping you in. And she reaches out whenever there's an issue in drama

and pulls me in. Yeah, exactly. And there's a part of you that very much likes it because as Whitney very accurately pointed out, it's stimulation. It's validation. Yeah, it's excitement. It's drama. It's fun. You're still needed. It's distracting. You feel valued. Oh, maybe he'll regret it. Maybe he'll

come around. That's on you. And you gotta find the strength to to say no yeah i know we just love being adults it's so great but also stop i'm ready though stop letting this person's words affect you you know he obviously is not a good person, right? And you can't, you have to stop letting him have access to you and his words affect how you feel. I know it's really hard, but obviously, you know, like you're a great person, you have self-worth, you know what you deserve.

His words should not carry so much weight in your life. He knows what he's doing. Yeah, he's a dick. He knows when he says these very cruel things, he knows that you'll sit in it, evaluate it, wonder if it's true and respond. He's not stupid. So you want to know why he says it?

That's why. Control. He wants to control you. Even when he's not with you, he has another girlfriend, he wants to have power and control over you. And you got to recognize that so that you can stop it, you know, and you, I'm glad you called in for a lot of reasons.

It's very entertaining. And hopefully it was helpful. But at the same time, you do have to stop that now. 100%. You know, you have to stop asking yourself, why does he do X, Y, or Z and stop evaluating him because that's just your ego. It's you trying to be enough. A justice warrior. I've always been that way and I'm not okay with that. I don't think it's a justice warrior. I think that's an excuse to be honest. It's not

about justice. You're right. I short circuit when I don't have resolution. That's a trait of mine. You have to learn to just sit in the present and accept it for what it is because most things in life you're never gonna have an answer to yeah you'll never know why but the the the growth happens when you can move on you made some choices some shit happened and now you have to move forward 10 years from now you're not even gonna remember this someone's gonna bring up his name and you're like, Oh my God, I forgot about that.

But getting like, oh, that was an object randomly. Yeah. You are not an object. You are not. You're just trying to hurt you. Do not let his words.

Do not believe that. But you got to get out of it. And the good news is you have all the control to get out of it. So. Alrighty guys. Well, thank you so much. Well, thank you for, well, it was quite the call but now it's time to protect

yourself and move on and get away from the drama I hope you have a wonderful year you too thank you for the call good luck can you hear it? she couldn't oh wow

that was that was a lot that was crazy a few more questions Whitney okay where do we stand with Mary?

Mary? yeah cause she really came at you hard unfairly so she did she made some seems to be our word yeah she is

has pretty slanderous um believe it or not Mary and i are friends now okay yeah we actually went to the same party that you're we met mary that night yeah and that was fun i arrived at that party with mary cosby oh okay yeah mary andy and i went together yeah i think i would like to have mary on the show some point. That would be a great interview. I would love to I would love to watch that

for sure. So Mary and I talked it out and again when two people are willing to have a conversation and hear each other

and get the truth it's easy to move forward. Yeah because Mary she's interesting for sure but watching this season you know I feel like I'm pretty decent at reading people, but she was fascinating. And she's intelligent, it seems like.

Would you agree? Yes. Okay. But remarkably sensitive for someone who also can cut really deep. She's also very unpredictable too. And that used to be something that was hard for me to understand but

now i just rejoice in sitting back and watching her and learning from her and yeah she's she's definitely one of those that can dish but can't receive it was interesting because i wonder because i think what she was trying to say at the reunion i almost understood what she was saying it's like and would you say would you do you agree with this because this is how i interpreted what she said it's like say whatever you want to my face just don't say it behind my back because if you say it behind her back it seems that that'll really trigger her but she seems to be open to you talking shit to her face. Yes. And that's true? That sucks, yeah. Okay.

And learning that about her is why we were able to be friends again. Okay. Because, yeah, clearly she called me unwarranted names. And I'm so glad we had the opportunity to clarify that if I have, in fact, done or said something that I wasn't aware of, and she said no. But no, Mary, you just have to say it to her face, give her a phone call, a text message. She'll give it right back. I don't mind that.

Yeah. But I actually, I never thought I'd say this, but I'm glad that we found a resolve. Do you think we'll see more of Mary next season? I mean, I'm seeing a lot of Mary right now. So I don't, I can't answer that question. I don't know, but I talk to her frequently, like daily. Tell her I said hi.

Should we call her? Can we? She'll kill me. I have to give her a heads up. Yeah, let her know that we're on. And we can edit it out if she doesn't want it on. I wonder if she knows what a voice note, a voice text is. Let me just faster.

Hey Mary, I'm recording a podcast right now in LA called the Vile Files with Nick Vile and he wants to meet you. Can we call you? Are you comfortable with that? But we are recording a podcast so you would be recorded

but he's one of your biggest fans and wants to talk to you. She's going to get that and be like, what is this? but he's one of your biggest fans and wants to talk to you. She's going to get that and be like, what is this? Yeah, I wonder if she has ever done, I don't know. We've never done voice notes. You'll text a lot. Like, just throw out that word in a text.

Like, it's no big deal. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, she really does, doesn't she? Yeah. She, yeah. Okay. Well, I't she? Yeah. She, yeah. Okay. Well, I hope she responds. Me too.

Yeah, we'll see what she says. She, yeah, she looked at my belly because it was also out at that party and she went, you're having a boy. And Nick goes, close. But she was like certain. She was like, I can tell this belly. She's actually so endearing in her own way. I had so much fun with her in LA at that party. I enjoy watching her.

We pre-gamed together. I even took her out to a gay bar after. Really? Yes. It was her first time out and she loved it. Yeah, it was great. Do we have any other questions for Whitney? I mean, on the topic of Mary, know she has her iconic like little girl line have you found the fact that maybe

you're a younger housewife and you're a little bit more softer spoken like have you found that as like a I don't want to say disadvantage but like do you ever find that they kind of gang up on you in that sense oh they absolutely gang up on me for my age my voice my looks my size everything and so it's kind of like are you calling me little because of my size like why are you calling me little my age either way it's patronizing it's patronizing but i i don't know why they continue to do it because i so i don't care it's to me it's a compliment and it shows their insecurity and i'm like I'm happy to be here.

I was one of the youngest housewives hired ever. Who do you think is the most insecure of your castmates? Conker. Conker. The makeup thing's ridiculous.

The glam. Just the glam for everything. Does she really I mean she really has a a glam person travel does she go to the grocery store she gets glam wild i don't yeah mary called her insecure you know that's an insecure i love that we love matter of fact um yeah i i don't know. I'm around a lot of people who are on TV every day. Some of my friends are on the news, news anchors, whatever, and they don't even freaking get glam every day. Come on. I don't know. Whatever, Lisa says it, so it has to be right. Yes. The truth, right? Mary, sometimes she texts back right away.

Sometimes it takes. It'll probably be a while. We'll FaceTime. You can do a multiple FaceTime. Whitney, thank you so much for coming. Thank you for having me. We had a ton of fun. I hope you had fun too.

I had a blast. Any final thoughts? No, you have good reads on things. The show's great. Thanks for having me. Any final thoughts? No, you have good reads on things. Yeah. Show's great. Thanks for having me. We love watching you guys. We wish you nothing but success. Congratulations on an epic season. I'm sorry it was emotionally draining. It's fine.

But we are very excited for next season and we believe in you all. Thank you. For delivering without Monica. Yeah, and that's why I was going to say my final thought is don't give up on Salt Lake City. I'm not. And I brought you a gift. Oh, what is the gift?

Just a little bit of some of my skincare. Some goodies for everyone in the office. I wanted to bring everyone jewelry. Where can people find this? Wildrosebeauty.com. Okay. Wow. Pretty simple.

Damn. Wild Rose. Yeah. We got some bath bombs. That's the best thing that came out of the bathtub gate. Yes. Bath bombs. Anything for me?

Yeah. That's for everyone. Everything there. Do you take baths? Yeah. You can put it on the floor of your shower too. Not often. But no, there's some cleanser, toner, serums.

It looks very wonderful. Love the packaging. You can put that glow all over your belly. Yes. Packaging is very nice. I will. I will. Thank you so much for coming, Whitney. It was packaging. You got to rub that glow all over your belly. Yes. Packaging is very nice. I will. I will. Thank you so much for coming, Whitney.

It was great. Thank you for having me. Nick, did you know that they have the same age gap as us? Well, we're 17 and a half. But her and Justin are 18 years. Oh, look at us. Except for you and I are the same age. Are we?

I don't know. I'm 43. You're 43? Yeah. How old are you? 25. 25? I'm 37.

Okay, so. So we're all. Slept out in the 43. You're 43? Yeah. How old are you? 25. 25? I'm 37. Okay, so. So we're all. Slept out in the middle. We'll have a date sometime. Yes, we will. Swap notes. So wait, how old were you when you met Justin? 21.

I was 21 when I met Nick. Oh my gosh. I was. Yeah, so you're following a similar. We started dating at 22. Yes. Yes. And you're 25, pregnant.

So yeah, you're following a similar trajectory. I met Justin at 22. Yes. And you're 25, pregnant. So yeah, you're following a similar trajectory. I met Justin at 21, had Bobby at 23. Oh my gosh. And still going strong. Yeah, 14 years married, 16 together. What's your favorite thing about your relationship? We accept each other as we are. Love that.

Okay. Like simple as that. Like we're not always on the same page, but we're always in the same book. Love that. Okay. Like simple as that. Like we're not always on the same page, but we're always in the same book. Love that. Absolutely. Period. Oh my gosh.

Well, tell them we said, tell them we said hi. And the second you're not in the same book, that's when you got to get back in there. We work hard on being the same book. Yeah. And the same page.

We're usually on the same page. We're always in the same book, but it's working on being in the same page. And chapter. Or chapters. If you're in the same chapter, that's like winning. Yeah. Truly. We're usually on the same page. We're always in the same book, but it's working on being in the same page. And chapter. Or chapters. If you're in the same chapter, that's like winning. Yeah, truly. We're there. Well, congratulations. I wish you all the best vibes.

Oh my gosh. Gonna be a mama. I know. Well, thank you guys for listening. Don't forget to send in those questions at asknickatthevilefiles.com for all things texting, office hours, mediation, you know the drill. Thanks for listening. We'll see you back on Monday. Bye.