The Viall Files - E705 Ask Nick - My Coworker Won't Stop Flirting With Me

Episode Date: February 12, 2024

Welcome back to another episode of The Viall Files: Ask Nick Edition! We’re back to answer your burning questions about the world of dating and relationships. We start off with a written Ask Nick, who’s boyfriend is still friends with his exes and likes other girls’ photos on instagram. Then we get to our caller…  Our first caller is in a situationship with a coworker, who has a c*m kink. She’s caught feelings for him, and feels used just for s*x. Our second caller has a coworker, who’s married, and can be a little too touchy. She’s unsure whether he’s flirting with her and wants to set boundaries. Our final caller left the Mormon church and is struggling to receive her mom’s acceptance. She knows her mom loves her, but doesn’t appreciate the constant efforts to force her back in the religion.  “See it for what it is, rather than making excuses for it and then masking it as you being empathetic” Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  To Order Nick’s Book Go To: https://www.viallfiles.com  If you would like to get some texting advice, send an email to [e-mail] with “Texting Office Hours” in the subject line!  To advertise on the show, contact [e-mail] or visit https://www.advertisecast.com/TheViallFiles  THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Squeezed.com -  Visit https://www.squeezed.com and get same day local delivery or free fast delivery nationwide with code VIALL. Vessi Footwear - Transform your new year adventure with Vessi. Visit https://www.vessi.com/VIALL for footwear that will gear you up the whole year around and get 15% off your first order.ShipStation  BetterHelp - Become your own soulmate, whether you’re looking for one or not. Visit https://www.BetterHelp.com/VIALL today to get 10% off your first month. Grammarly - Make a bigger impact at work with Grammarly. Sign up and download for FREE at https://www.grammarly.com/PODCAST  Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall @alison.vandam @dereklanerussell @justinkaphillips @leahgsilberstein

you're crazy what's going on everybody welcome back to another episode of the vile what is that ask nick that's nick welcome back to another episode of the Vile Files Ask Nick edition. I am your host, Nick, joined by the household. We got Leah and sweet, sweet, sweet boy Justin with us. We are days away from Valentine's Day. Do you ever get, do you ever say Valentine's? Valentine's, as in like the time?

Like, do you ever say Valentine's wrong? I've been known to do that. I have to always enunciate because like I mumble sometimes. Okay. You've never been accused of that. I have to always enunciate because I mumble sometimes. Okay. You've never been accused of saying Valentine's. I definitely mumble and it's Valentine's. Valentine's. Do you get it wrong? No. Never. I mean

just this word in particular is not one of the hard ones for me. I do mumble. No. Words are hard. Words are hard. Valentine's is this week. Do you have any big plans? No. Do you and your husband really get into Valentine's?

Not really. What about you and your partner? Keeping it simple. Because you guys are newly dated. Yeah, it's fairly new. So I think it's good to just relax, get a dinner and we're just going to vibe. I haven't even thought about it with the baby being here

I think we're just gonna love on each other I'm sure I'll do something I've never been more in love than I you know yeah now you have two valentines that's like a one

so much love I don't know what we're gonna do and we're recording this a bit early it's not we're not two days away from valentines hopefully I'll have

some sort of plan by then but I imagine we'll keep it pretty simple simple's good yeah anyway just remember all you single people out there it's just a fucking day planned by then. But I imagine we'll keep it pretty simple. Simple's good. Yeah. Anyway, just remember, all you single people out there, it's just a fucking day. It's not the day to feel sorry for yourself. It's not

the day to throw a pity party because you don't have a Valentine. Just remember most people in relationships during Valentine's Day, just fight over it. Probably, I don't know if there's a stat out there, but I would bet, ballpark figure, 60-70% of people in relationships end up being disappointed on Valentine's Day. At least the women. I don't know if men give a shit, which is probably part of the reason,

part of the problem. There's a lot of hype around Valentine's Day, I feel. Just try to connect with your partner. I will say too, if you're single, buy yourself flowers. I worked at Trader Joe's and it's not a stigma everybody buys themselves flowers whatever it is maybe for me I'd get myself a massage treat yourself is really I think the point you're trying to make Justin or celebrate with a friend

Galentine's girls night out hang out with the boys put some vids don't let the bros get don't be a sad bro on valentine's day you imagine a bunch of like bros just like man i'm not in love i think that is the direction we're going though there are more way more single men than are single women out there i'm worried about men i know i know society isn't that concerned about men these days uh because society loves

to bash them and it's not that men don't deserve criticism, but I am worried for the younger generation of men. I am. I mean, I'm joking now, but I think we're not too far away from men truly feeling, you know, sad and lonely on days like Valentine's Day where other people are celebrating love. Not to bring everyone down, anyways. What do we have to get into before we get to our fantastic colors? So we thought that we would play a little game with you since you are now a parent so we pulled some tiktok trends we pulled some tiktok trends that parents are doing around the world like crazy parents and their kids? Yeah. Yeah. And we want to get your take. Are these good trends or are these bad trends?

Let you decide. Okay. Okay. So this is a TikTok where, I mean, I know Jimmy Kimmel does this every year also, where he does this YouTube challenge where parents will tell their kids after Halloween that they ate all their candy. It's a pretty funny one. I've seen that one before.

I would do something like that. Yeah. I could see myself having fun. That's playful. Yeah. It's playful. i feel like that's pretty harmless yeah you just have to tell them like right away that you were joking like don't let it linger yeah you can't get too much satisfaction around torturing your kids right like why are you trying to make your kid cry like yeah yeah like like this one you know you got an endearing reaction from their kid. Like, that's okay. That's okay. Like the understanding child.

Something like you're proud of your kid. The ones where the kids turn into little assholes. Yeah, which I'm sure a lot of them do. Yeah. Clearly, these parents are good. This is a good parent, the one we saw, because the kids handled it pretty well. Yeah, I guess it's a test to see if you're a good... You've raised your kid right. Yeah handle disappointment yeah it's a life skill

handling disappointment yeah what else we got okay so this is a tiktok trend where parents are cooking with their child and they're cracking an egg into a bowl but then they hit the egg on their kid's face instead and to see their kid's reaction fuck yeah oh that kid is so cute see like obviously this is very cute very cute reaction but no no agreed so they actually um there was a psychology today article that came out about this where they were just saying that hashtag egg challenge is like really bad. Like it's psychologically bad for kids. Yeah. Like why are you hitting your kid? It's unnecessary. Yeah. On the forehead. It causes like mistrust. Like these are your parents. You're supposed to. Yeah. I don't. I

just I mean, the Jimmy Kimmel like Halloween candy candy one i feel like that's as far as i would i would go but i just i don't ever want to use my kid as a fucking gag for an online tiktok trend i mean right now obviously we've we've been sharing content of river and obviously like he's like stunning so like we just we obviously want to brag but like and nally and i kind of have these ongoing conversations i don't know what our like our policy is going to be i i suspect we'll as she grows and turns into the uh lovely young person that she's going to be and gets her own distinct features i i can see ourselves pulling back a little bit like she's definitely not going to be part of the influence.

We'll figure it out. We don't really know. But we're not going to use our fucking kid for fucking gags and stunts and mock them and shit like that. I guess to each their own. But no, that's so fucking... It's yucky.

It's gross. Are there more of those? Like on that same vein yeah not as bad no the throwing the cheese one though what's the throwing the cheese one there's this trend where to get a baby to stop crying they just randomly walk up and throw a slice of cheese onto their baby's face it i mean it works but, but I mean, I'll let you watch it. Okay, that's kind of cute. It gently lands on the...

You made it... I thought it was like a fastball into their face. Some parents do it that way. If you've seen some of the videos, they like chuck it out their face. Yeah, no. That was like a light flop on the top of the forehead. And it seemed to work, but it goes too far with some parents.

I don't know, man. Like that was fine. The little flop, harmless. It actually, the baby seemed to enjoy it. I mean, the baby seemed to just be like- But you literally can't miss. And by miss, I mean like you can't like, you can't be like, oh shoot, oops.

Like you can't go too far. You know, this is not the time to push the limits. Like gently flop it on the baby's head. If that doesn't get a reaction, move on. Gently flopping a piece of cheese on a baby's head is very different than forcefully smacking a hard-shelled egg onto a kid's face. As a content creator slash influencer. Like anything else, you have to re-do shit. You have to take five selfies or a few takes before you get the you know

whatever it is you need to say for the thing you're trying to say or you know you know and i'm not talking about like hey guys i'm holding my baby or just like showing our dogs but like when we're influencing you know or we're even if we're doing like uh having fun with like one of those lips lip-syncing things that we do with some of our guests like we get it wrong we have to do it again we have to do several takes like the moment you start doing that with your kids you're making them fucking work you know and then you become like their director you stop being their parent and the moment you start thinking about oh we got to get this right because we want it to do well yeah i mean i think this would be

you know when once the kids get older but when people become like family influencers yeah it's just like you see some of those and i can tell like these kids that do multiple takes and they're miserable like you can tell that they don't want to be doing this like they want to be playing outside with their friends no it's nuts oh are there more yeah there are more uh let's do the nutella one is it yeah is there a cute one um okay so the nutella challenge is where the parent will be in the bathroom and they'll um kind of like wipe nutella on their hand and tell their kid that they need toilet paper and then their kid will bring them toilet paper and then their kid will bring them toilet paper and then when they grab it,

they wipe Nutella on their kid's hand and pretend that it's... No. Yeah. Immediately no. It's mean. It's mean. No.

Don't even need to see it. I've heard enough. I've heard enough. Some of the kids' reactions are really sweet though. They're like, it's okay, mommy. Fine. I get it.

But like... It's mean. It's just... The fact that people are doing it for the clicks and trying to confuse and and not knowing what type of reaction your kid might get just seems icky i don't like these i don't like the kid trends yeah well this one's a key one the bathroom challenge should we do the bathroom challenge to the bathroom challenge so the bathroom challenge is once the kids get a little older, people are putting them in a bathroom and saying, okay, you can say bad words here and only here.

And then they'll leave the room while the camera's recording and see what the child said. That's interesting. It's cute because it gives them a safe space. Does she know any other oh my god oh my god okay that's okay that was cute that's really cute that was pretty cute some of the children they won't say anything they'll just like sit there and be like okay i'm done well the fact that she knew what a bad word was is kind of endearing to know that she shouldn't say it. Mama has a potty mouth.

Yeah. Bitch. Bitch. I love that she was like, wait, I said it. Is it okay? It's cute that she also knows. Yeah, it was cute. That was cute.

All right, that was fun. I just, I don't want, no tricking. Like that to me is just like, all right, yeah, you can go. I'm giving you permission. You can do this. There's no deception. There's no making things. Something is gross when it's not gross.

Like the Nutella thing. Like, why are we making, you know, I bet there's and I bet there's fucking videos out there of like parents licking the Nutella off their fingers before they I guarantee that. Oh, for sure. For sure. To you. That's just to freak. Just to freak their kid out. Yeah.

It's the ones where they where the kid is the butt of the joke. Yeah. Those are the. Yeah. Those are for sure. For sure. Guarantee you. Just to freak their kid out. Just to freak their kid out. Yeah, it's the ones where the kid is the butt of the joke. Yeah. Those are the ones that are bad. Yeah, no butt's the joke. Okay, this isn't really a trend, but I'm curious about your take on this one. So there's, I mean, it is a trend going around where beige moms must be stopped. What are beige moms? So beige moms are, you know know those houses where you walk in and

everything is beige and cream and white okay so what's wrong with that there's nothing wrong with it but a lot of people are coming down on moms who are beige and like only let their kids have like an aesthetically beige life like all their clothes are white or beige all their whole room looks like that and they don't let any color in okay that's a little weird so uh there's i mean also is that are they doing any harm i don't know i guess it just depends on on on what that conversation looks like with the mom and the kid in terms of like like why they can't do something why they can't have color like yeah like the fact that you would limit your kid to certain choices because they don't want you don't want it to like fuck with your aesthetic right that's the controversy there is that what it is can i see an example of a beige mom yeah so

it's basically just a video of you know she's showing her aesthetic and all the aesthetically pleasing baby things and then you know you can't help but get gifts from people that are going to ruin your aesthetic yeah but like what i i don't but what we just saw i don't get i don't know there's just a divide of i feel like this is like a karen comment if your kid walks out and says mom i want to get this shirt or whatever again you know like like discount like not assuming like budgets and like people can afford i mean shit like it was when i was a kid is like what we could afford at like rummage sales like i didn't have the luxury of like you know certain choices um but yeah like let's assume it's like a privileged parent with the funds to buy their kid whatever they want and not letting their kid wear certain clothes or do certain things but

spray painting a christmas tree that they let them decorate i don't think is the end of the fucking world i i don't know yeah i think it's a it's a matter of to each their own like if if you're treating your child well there's food on the table that all the you know it's like you're allowed to have your things that you like yeah i mean i post a picture of river um and she was laying really straight with her hands down and I posted it in Instagram stories and I just like wrote like a caption like planking I saw that that was funny that was funny too and then some

girl replied back that's not planking oh my god now I assume that this person was referring to like a plank for like working out when you're on like... I mean, I assume. I don't know. But you know you're a Karen when you feel the need to correct something and give your input for something that you may not agree with that is not harming anyone now this particular parent that we saw like they're suggesting that like because this mom's spray painted she they're fucking up their kids development i don't know i think that's going a bit too far but like i don't know mind your fucking business honestly yeah like don't use a kid as a prop don't make them the butt of a joke don't use them for clout or clicks

and that's not to say like yeah like bragging your kids and show a nice picture of them and they do something cute that you're proud of and yeah like sure but like don't turn them into like you know child child workers yeah and i also feel like at the end of the day there's no way that these beige moms are like throwing their kids colorful toys away like i'm it's a thing like beige moms don't even know if they're beige moms like it i don't know now that i'm thinking about it i could be wrong i could be i may maybe i'm not operating with all the information but the people against beige moms sound like a bunch of karens like mind your fucking business like why is this girl on tiktok leaving a walgreens making a video about

some other fucking mom who was minding her business and decided to like paint a tree let's assume she painted it with like child safe paint. Didn't affect anyone. Are you fucking kidding me? Yeah. Who gives a shit? Yeah. Don't be a fucking mom, Karen. Mind your fucking business. I agree. Do we have a writer in her we want to get to? We have a writer in her and she emailed in her tagline is how to get over someone I never committed to. Okay. Hi, Nick and the household. I need some serious advice. I don't know how much information you want in these emails, so I apologize if this is too long. Here goes nothing. I was in a casual relationship after my divorce for six months. Never made it

official because I wasn't ready. I made some questionable choices during that time, leaving the door open for other people and not giving this person the full reassurance that we were exclusive. He wanted to be exclusive from the beginning, but he also wanted to be patient and supportive. He stuck around and agreed that he could do casual. He put in his best effort and planned cute dates, trips, concerts, and always wanted to be present in my life. I knew I had strong feelings for him and the kind of instant connection that I had never had with anyone before, but for some reason, I felt so strongly that I deserved to be single during this time in my life and not to give in to the pressure

of a relationship. I didn't want to close the door on other possibilities because I felt so much failure from committing and being loyal to the wrong person when I got married. I needed therapy a long time ago, I know. All of my subsequent actions were based out of fear and not a reflection of how I actually felt about him. It's like my head and my heart constantly battled each other and it became hard to gain clarity of my emotions or what to do. However, during those six months, he was very understanding of my situation and how I felt about commitment at the time. He chose to stand by me, support me, and show up for me always. He continuously reiterated how much I meant to him and how much he cared about my growth and healing as a person and a potential girlfriend, wife, and mother of his children. That's how strongly he believed we

would work out. We had so much in common and made countless amazing memories together. Eventually, he had to go out of state for training related to his career. It was going to be a month apart from each other, but we couldn't wait for it to be over so we could see each other again. During this time, it was hard to stay as connected as usual because of the distance. I felt a shift in communication and right before he was supposed to come back, he let me know that the new position he was training for has now relocated him three hours away from where I live. In his career, there's nothing he can do to refuse that type of move. I know that's not very far, but he knew that I don't prefer long distance dating and he felt defeated and devastated by the news because he didn't want to lose me. At least that's what he told me. Very

shortly after that, he dropped the bomb on me that he decided to start moving on and moving forward with his life and the idea of us ever being together. He had disconnected from his feelings and was no longer invested in what we had. This text came only weeks after he told me that I was the only woman he ever truly loved in his life, which he had told me on more than one occasion. He had told me numerous times that he could never stop loving me and he would wait until I was ready. In his defense, I had never promised my full commitment at this point and I did try to explore another connection, which wasn't fair to him. However, the abrupt disconnection of his feelings and everything he ever said to me came as a huge shock. There was no closure, no real conversation over the phone or FaceTime, and no conversation face-to-face before he moved.

He had promised me that we could at least talk in person when he got back from training, but weeks went by without hearing from him. Ultimately, I asked what was going on, and he informed me that he met someone and started dating them. In a matter of weeks. He said a conversation is not going to happen because he respects her and feels that it's inappropriate and that there's truly nothing left to say between us. He never gave me the chance at that point to say how I felt about long distance and how I truly felt about us and the whole situation. I didn't get a chance to fight for him or express my true desire to be

with him and only him. This sudden end to the relationship all came as a complete and utter shock. I'm still living in that shock three months later and can't let it go. I know that I was in love with him and I let him slip through my fingers. I ruminate over every decision I made last summer and can't understand why I was so hesitant to begin with. This leads me to several questions that I have. How do I ever truly find closure when something ends so abruptly and shockingly with no conversation and so many unanswered questions? How is the person who was so outwardly in love with me be the one that could emotionally move on and invest in someone else so quickly? Why do I think about him every single day still when I was the one who had a problem committing in the first place? Why do I feel like he did me so wrong when

I arguably did him wrong first? How do I come to terms with how it ended when I never even let it be a real relationship? I look back and think about every amazing quality he embodies, how strong our connection was, both mentally and physically, how much he pushed me to heal and grow, and I truly feel I lost my person. If it was the wrong timing, that must mean it was the wrong person, right? Okay. Well, I mean, she asked a lot of questions. This is going through one by one. How do I ever truly find closure when something ends so abruptly and shocking with no conversations and no unanswered

questions. Well, again, as we always say, you don't get closure from other people. You get closure from acceptance. So you just have to accept it's not what you thought it was. That's the big takeaway. We always have a hard time moving on from things because we would glorify them and we don't accept it for what it is. We obsess over what we thought it was or we wanted it to be and things like that. So, you know, if you're looking for acceptance, you don't accept it for what it is. We obsess over what we thought it was or we wanted it to be and things like that. So if you're looking for acceptance, you don't need a conversation with this guy to try to get him to articulate why his feelings have changed so abruptly. And then how is the person who was so outwardly in love with me, the one who could emotionally move on, how could he move on so quickly? Well, the fact that he moved on so quickly is probably part of the reason why he was so emotive with you. Now, that doesn't make him some sort of love bomber,

but there are people who fall fast. There are people who love to get swept up in the emotions of things. They go a hundred miles per hour. You had a connection with this guy and listen, you didn't want to, for whatever reason, you weren't ready. But the fact that like, you know, me and Natalie, there was a, we've, you know, we've talked about this over and over about the beginning of our relationship. And for nine months we had a casual relationship. You know, we were not exclusive. There could have been a point where, at the point where I was like, oh my God, what am I doing?

I wish I fucked up. Well, like, let's date. She could have said no. And yeah, I would have been sad and devastated, but like, eventually I would have came to the conclusion that yeah, like, you know, for all the reasons that made me go, this could be my person.

Him moving on so quickly discredits some of the things he said to you in the past. And not because he's a love bomber or that he was manipulating you or had bad intentions is that he got clearly as someone who gets caught up in his emotions and he had very strong feelings for you. You didn't respond in kind. That kind of was discouraging at times. And then finally, he probably did meet someone else and just as quickly fell for her. So this is a guy who falls fast. That's his track record, it sounds like. And why are you so upset? Because we always get very upset when we lose power in any situation. And you went from having the power, you went from

being in control. He was the one pursuing you. from having the power, you went from being in control, he was the one pursuing you, you were the one always saying no to him, and then all of a sudden you lost that control. Even up to the point where he got promoted and had to go three hours away, you were still being like, well, I don't really like long-term relationships. That was a writer in her taking advantage of the power that she had by letting him know, well, I don't just, you know, I don't know. Like, I don't do long distance. He's like, all right, well, fine. Fuck it. You know, like, and now you have no control. Now he has told you now he's setting, you know, at first it was her, you know, this is my boundary. This is my expectation. I can't date you. And valid reasons. You just got a divorce. Maybe you don't want to

jump into a committed relationship. And that was honestly probably the right decision. It's one thing to say you're going to be patient he didn't show that he was willing to be patient and that's fine you know and i'm sure you had a strong connection i'm sure there was a lot of great things but now you're glorifying all the great things that you had with him but may didn't have with your ex you've only dated two people in the past i don't know how long of a period of time it sounds like oh maybe three people that sounds like there's another guy in between there or something but she doesn't say she doesn't sound like she has an extensive dating history. You know, she has this other guy, this guy, and then her ex. You know, maybe she needs to get out there and start dating. But the reason why she's feeling this way is that she lost power. And she

went from having power to losing that power. And that just fucks with our ego. And then it makes us, you know, have feelings like regret. And it makes us you know have feelings like regret and it makes us question things like did i fuck up you know because our choices do matter maybe they could have had a good thing but most likely the fact that he did move on so quickly and he did find someone else so quickly and he was ready to like enforce that boundary with her tells me that that connection that she thought she had with him wasn't as strong as she thought it was and that this is a guy who says a lot of big proclamations uh because in the moment he might feel have strong feelings but those feelings don't stand the test of time and aren't as strong in reality uh because

like if they were that they wouldn't go away so quickly if he was that into her if he had that strong of a connection with her it wouldn't be that easy to meet someone else. I mean, you know, you just wouldn't. So stop ruminating. Stop saying, you know, you didn't lose your person. You lost a good guy you had a good connection with. And the fact that he doesn't want to be with you, it does you no good to obsessively tell yourself,

I lost my person. There are literally billions of people in this world. And you can have, multiple people can be your person. You can have multiple intimate connections with someone. And again, the fact that he was so quick to move on means that clearly this connection wasn't as strong as he implied. So don't make it worse by telling yourself a lie and obsessing over it and beating yourself up and things like that. Just accept that maybe it was just bad timing. Learn from it. But I don't even know how much there is to learn. It makes a lot of sense that you didn't want to jump into another very intense,

serious relationship with someone who clearly has a track record of falling fast. And maybe you weren't ready for it. and that's okay. So I think you are just kind of beating yourself up and more than anything, I think the loss of the power that you felt with him is messing you up. And I think accepting that will help you get the closure that you need. What do we have lined up for our callers today? So we have three callers. Our first caller is in a situationship with a co-worker who has a cum kink. Our second caller is wondering whether her married co-worker is flirting with her. And just so you heard that right, a cum kink. That's exactly how it sounds.

What's our second caller? Our second caller is wondering whether her married co-worker is flirting with her. Okay. And then our third caller is calling in because her mom won't accept the fact that she left the Mormon church. Okay. We love a good religious fallout. There's some good ones.

There's some bangers. I hope you guys enjoy them. All right. Let's get to our callers. Question time with Nick. Let's ask Nick your sexy questions. How's it going? Good. My name's Sophia. I'm 28 and I am in a situationship with a co-worker who has a cum kink.

A cum kink? Yes. Okay. What is a cum kink? Well, basically, and I'm not kink shaming anybody, but... No, we don't yuck anyone's yum, but we are curious. He eats his own cum. Oh, okay. Of course. Yes, of course.

Yes. Say more. So I met this man at work. We work in similar industries and typically don't like to date within my industry. So it was already very hesitant, but he had really pursued me. We already had some like boundaries within kind of dating since it was like long distance. And of course the work thing, but he had really, you know, tried. So we met up a few times and then he would like facetime me to kind of have like you know sexual time i guess and one of the times that he facetimed me uh he was jerking off

and then he was taking the cum on and i was just like having a cup of coffee like i wasn't you're just like sitting there watching the news, so to speak. Yeah. Yeah. Real Housewives, actually. There you go. Which one? Which one? I watch all of them, Nick. I'm obsessed. All right.

He starts playing with like his cum and then licking it. So he finished? I think it was pre-cum. Okay. So he was just like almost scraping the tip, so to speak. And then licking his finger? Yeah. Like sucking on his finger and like giving me this like look, like I was supposed to

be like, oh my God. And I just went like this, but I didn't know. I just cover my mouth because I didn't know what to do. I was like so surprised, you know, I just, maybe he could have told me before that that was a thing he liked. Sure. Yeah. I mean, I didn't know what to do. I was like, so surprised, you know, I just, maybe he could have told me before that that was a thing he liked. Sure. Yeah. I mean, I don't, not to give too much away about my sexual prowess, but you know, I like to think I'm exploratory, but I've never, I don't believe I have anything that kinky in my arsenal, so to speak. So I've never had to figure out a way to deliver something that I've wondered that most people might find untraditional, so to speak. So

I don't know. But like you, I agree that something like that, you would think they would have to explore some sort of delivery as opposed to you know i guess it is you know one approach it seems like what he did it was just to kind of act like what's the big deal you know i think it's because he didn't take me seriously he didn't really care what i thought so he's like 15 years older than me he is like very like a higher tier than me he's a man in the industry and i'm in a highly male-dominated industry. I'm probably one of the younger people. So I think he didn't really care what I thought of him, to be honest with you. What gave you that impression? Because he did pursue you

fairly aggressively, right? Yes, but I think it's really untraditional and kind of frowned upon to pursue somebody. There's a lot of stigmas behind it within the area that I work in. It's healthcare. It's not really a good look. So I feel like if you really do pursue somebody, you have to be very sure about it. So that's what I was kind of conflicted about. But he was inconsistent with his texting. And we were long distance. So I found that to be a little bit annoying. But also like he very early on had initiated like some sexual comments, which is like fine, I guess. But I don't know, I would take it very slow with people that you work with. But one of the things that kind of also led me to his hunk kink is he would send pictures and he would send me pictures of a glass of milk with like as like part of the sexting. And I didn't understand that. Then he would send me a picture of his cum in a glass as if to simulate a glass of milk.

Did he was there another picture of him drinking it? No, but I was like, what am I supposed to do with that? How how how much of this kink have you seen? He licked the tip, what we think is pre-cum. He sent you a glass with his cum in it. Have you seen him go full on eating at all, so to speak? Well, then I remember when we met up one of the first times, we kind of hooked up and I really didn't want to give him head. I didn't want to make him calm. I didn't want him to make me calm because I kind of catch feelings. So when I was saying like, I ended up like giving him head because you know how those things, those

situations go. And I was like, okay, but I can't make you calm. Like I have to leave now. And he, I guess I really got him going that I was like, no, no, no. And he just came all over me. And he, like, loved that. So I've seen him lick his cum on FaceTime. And then one time we ended up having sex. And as he was coming, he's like, I want you to lick my cum off the sheets. And I'm going to lick it off with you. Okay.

That's unique, I guess. Yeah. So I guess, listen, other than you telling a very wild story, which we appreciate, what are you hoping to figure out? Have you talked to him about this kink? Well, that's the thing. So the kink, honestly, I could deal with. I'm not like, I think it was interesting. I think maybe he warned me about it, but basically I'm kind of hurt by this guy because I was very resistant to this relationship. He really pursued me, he had me come out to the East Coast for the holidays. I mean, our families are both out there. But I met up with him in Manhattan, my family's in Connecticut, his family's in Jersey, he was like, I'll pay for your flight change, like, which was nice, because it's because it's expensive. I got my own hotel, but he was like, let's get hotels together, blah, blah, blah.

He was very touchy when we met up. Finally, that was the first time we ended up actually hooking up. Right after we hook up, I felt like he was distant. And then the next day, he suddenly came up with a sudden family emergency. He had to leave Manhattan that night, but he was going to hang out with me, have dinner with me. And then the whole evening, I just felt like he was being a little weird. So at dinner, I called him out and I was like, Hey, can I get a read on you right now? I think that you had good intentions here. But as soon as I feel like you got what you wanted,

you seem like you're not interested anymore. And he was like, you know, you actually are so intuitive. He said this to me. He goes, you know, I've just been thinking about it. You're vegan. That's stressful for me, which I've been vegan for 12 years, Nick. It is not stressful for anybody. It's a very easy situation.

But you're up front about that. He knew this the whole time. He's like, we don't live in the same states. He's like, you don't know if you ever want to get married, which he just went through a bad divorce four years ago or something. He was the one saying how marriage is a construct. And I'm kind of neutral about it. I'm cool with kind of whatever. Yeah. It's not even on your radar. You're just looking at making connections with people and hoping to find people who want to respect your time as much as you want to respect them. And you want to build a relationship, however, traditional or untraditional, like you're open and you're clear about that. And he was, he was kind of throwing all this

random shit in your face. Yeah. And I felt like he like abandoned me a little bit because the next day he was supposed to like after we spent two days in new york together he was supposed to like drive me to amtrak i have like two 50 pound suitcases like and he oh i have to leave tonight you know like to go for this family emergency which like sound you know what the family emergency is like bullshit and he was telling me. It sounded like bullshit. It was like, it was a surgery that had come up. But I mean, surgeries aren't usually that like spur of the moment. They're usually kind of scheduled for what it was. And also it's like, we had kind of planned this.

Like it was, it was like a cousin of his. When you think back about all these interactions you had with this guy, I'm getting the impression there were a handful of moments where your body was like or you know spidey sense whatever you want red flags you're like i don't seem kind of off and then you found a way as we often do because you liked them and you know it wasn't all bad it was a lot of charming things and a lot of things that you were attracted to so in the spirit of trying to be understanding and being empathetic and being open-minded,

which, you know, that's the tightrope we all walk when we date people, you know? But as you look back at all these interactions with this guy, you know, does it feel like maybe you ignored more red flags than you should have? Yeah, and I have a lot of regrets about that, especially cooking up with him. I wish I didn't do that so much.

Okay. So other than feeling regret and beating yourself up over it, like, I guess, what do I attract, like, is there something about me that's attracting people who kind of do these types of things to me? Like I was very open about, you know, if we sleep together, like it's going to mean something to me and I'm going to be hurt if it's just nothing to you. And then that's exactly what happens, you know? Now, how long are you waiting? Also, this guy pretty quickly was introducing sex into the relationship. So listen, he's a guy, you know, guys are sexual in nature. So, you know, it's, it is tough. I empathize with the position you're in because even the good ones, so to speak, you know, if they're physically attracted to you, like it's, you start bringing up your attraction, like it can turn sexual pretty quick. Right. And even the good ones, so to speak. If they're physically attracted to you, you start bringing up your attraction, it can

turn sexual pretty quick. And even the good ones, the guys. When you hook up fairly early in a relationship, it will always kind of, I don't know, it just fucks with our brains, so to speak. It was like two months though. We have been talking for two months and the first time we actually made out and gave each other head, I guess whatever you want to call it. And part of that was luck. Part of that was luck of us kind of figuring out, introducing intimacy and sex early in our relationship. And that complicated, that just always complicates things. And two months, yeah,

that's a decent amount of time to wait. But it's also like in two months, you still don't know a lot about each other type of thing as you kind of are realizing. So why do you think you're attracting like from your standpoint, instead of talking to your friends or whatever, if you look at your dating history, forget about like, do I think I'm attracting the wrong men? What are some characteristics that you seem to notice being a pattern in the men that you are dating? Emotionally unavailable. Okay. And how and in what way? So give me an example of this guy. The first time that you maybe were alerted to his emotional unavailability.

I would say when we were texting, he would go two or three days without responding to me or even just taking two hours to respond to a text, which like, I'm not saying like you need to text me every hour, but it's like, if we're having a dialogue, it's difficult to have a conversation. And then when I would be like, Hey, like, what have you been up to? I haven't heard from you in like, you know, two or three days. Um, not so like accusatory, I say like more casual, kind of more chill, but he'll say things like, um, Oh, you know, I three days um not so like accusatory i say like more casual kind of more chill but he'll say things like um oh you know i've just been so busy i've got a lot going on to me that's him being like unreal like i've done that to guys before that i'm not that interested in i'm not giving them a lot i'm not really thinking about them that's why i'm not

texting them that is you know god you know it, you know, now and I have even been open about that, you know, in the sense that they're, you know, I, you could argue that on some level we had pretty open we had very open communication we were you know uh but at the same time there were times where you know i was disconnected intentionally because i you know wasn't sure about this this is something i could do and i had my own kind of insecurities about it but regardless my behavior was inconsistent and things like that you know we made it work you know eventually and she had to do the whole like, you know what? I'm done. Fuck you. I'm going to start dating other people. I need to like stop giving myself access to this guy. And, you know, and I responded, so to speak.

I guess what I'm saying, it's like on some level, you're just going to have if you're going to keep pursuing these type of men who in their middle age have successful careers, I guess that's probably something you're often... Are you often dating older men on some level? I think the thing is, I'm actually so open, Nick. My last boyfriend was 25, which he thought... I won't even get into that. When I was 27 at the time, he was 25. He didn't have a job. He's got family money. But he was like, we had a lot of fun together. I've dated younger. I've dated older. And I just find that time and time again, they try to break down my walls. I have pretty good boundaries. Okay. So you dated a 25-year-old who didn't have a job but had family money.

And then here you are dating a guy who's 15 years older than you, who it sounds like he's pretty successful in his job. He's very successful. He's very successful. Okay. What about some of the, like, I guess what I'm saying, when was the last, and again, I'm not critiquing the guys you're going after. I'm just trying to find patterns.

And it's not like, is all these other guys are, have there been unique things about them that you were attracted to? As opposed to maybe a guy who was an accountant who had a pretty vanilla regular nine to five, so to speak. Not too long ago, I've had things sprinkled in with people. But I guess my other last year's relationship was somebody who had a normal job. And that was really fun fun he just had crazy ADHD I mean not focus I think the biggest takeaway is this might be somewhat discouraging no one's gonna protect your heart more than you and I think you probably like a lot of people out there especially women in an effort to be over communicative will will say things like, listen,

like here, I want to like be honest where I'm at. And I want, I'm hesitant about X, Y, or Z, especially when around intimacy. And if we do this, I might catch feelings. And I just think, you know, I think over, I think communication is great. However, especially with someone where you're still, you know, you're not in a relationship, you're not fully committed, you don't know them all that well, you still have inconsistency in your relationship, still inconsistency with communication. You know, they can text you one day, they can, you know, go 48 hours without reaching out to you. I just honestly think that if that's the situation you're operating in, which is a very common situation right nowadays when it comes to dating, you have to protect your heart. And asking a guy that you're dating to do that while he's still figuring how he feels about you, I think is just a risky

proposition. And we can kind of say, oh, well, they should do this. And you're right. I mean, I think we can be critical of these men. But I just think if your goal is to try to remove yourself from frustrating situations, I just think when it comes to intimacy and dating, if you have to say something like, hey, I just want you to know that if we do this and yada, yada, yada, I'm going to feel a certain way. If you have to communicate that to a guy early on and you don't get an answer that blows your mind in the best possible way, and even that's still risky, I just think you have to proceed with caution. Yeah. I think, like, it's not like on my text and I'm like, hey, keep in mind, if we hook up,

you have to marry me. It's more so, and I think a lot of text and I'm like, hey, keep in mind, if we hook up, you have to marry me. It's more so, and I think a lot of women and probably men too deal with this. It's like, you can't have a simple, easy make out. It's like once you start making out, you're like, oh, my balls hurt. If they get turned on, how do you navigate that? You tell them to fuck off and the best and the nicest possible way i mean yeah like we've said this on the show before blue balls it's a myth it's it's fake it's i don't it's not it's it's made the fuck up i don't know and again even if that's true they can literally leave and go rub one out and jerk off like i def never understood this idea that somehow women or if men

date men that somehow when it comes to men and dating that the people they date are somehow responsible for making sure they don't have these mythical cramps or whatever the fuck i don't even know what blue balls are i really truly under i don't understand other than like yeah like i guess if i'm close to climaxing and i don't like bummer but i've never had i you know and again if i was like oh i guess i would if if for some reason i was in some sort of uncomfortable state i could literally go home and take care of that and this idea that somehow women or gay men or you know by on not whoever non-bi whoever are are hooking up with men are somehow responsible to make sure that they climax for some sort of health care reason it's absurd it's fucking absurd so i would just if i were you roll your fucking eyes i would say like honestly don't

put that on me and like that's you know no and when guys ask multiple times i mean listen you know there's that fine line you're making out come on baby you know and it goes both ways but and at some point if you're just like listen i don't want to do this and a guy keeps pushing you don't have to get aggressive but you can say listen, listen, I'm not just, just so we're on the same page. This is not me trying to build the sexual tension. I really don't want to do this. And I really need you to respect that. And you say it calmly and you give him a look that you give him that look where I'm not fucking around. And I just think when it comes to dating, just if nothing else doing that because yeah like on some part that is on you when you when you're telling the story it's like well i didn't want to give him

but you know how it goes i did and i'm assuming you're still like saying this was consensual right yeah it it is but like it's hard nick because i'll literally be like no no and i think that there's something about my boundaries and me being like, I don't know, I guess confident that makes them want to pursue me more or make them want to push harder. I'm pretty, I'm pretty petite. I'm like five, three. And I think that that's like a turn on for maybe the guys that actively pursue me. And they like the concept that they can maybe like, convince me to do something. Because, and I know that sounds crazy. But I've like literally noticed this trend that i'm like why why did they push so hard when i say no i mean maybe that's men in general i don't know i mean i don't i can't speak for all men

and that's unfortunate to hear yes listen there's a fine line you know that dating dance between that chase we all love a chase you know women men love to chase women love to be chased and i do think you know that can be dicey and complicated you know but these men need to respect these no's you know it's that simple and you need to respect your own boundaries in the sense of you know if you're gonna say no you keep on saying no and if if they don't respect it, ask them to leave. But it can be confusing, right? When it's kind of like, no, no, no.

And I don't know how you're saying no. But no should mean no. But like there is that dance in between where it's like, I don't know if we should do this, you know. And then like, I've been in situations where, you know, long ago, I don't know if she's like, oh, okay, cool. Let's just stop. And she's like, well, no, I mean, like, you know, come on. It's like, listen, I'm just, I don't like, if you're going to tell me no, I'm going to

stop. So like, we need to be, you know, you know, with people I don't, you know, really have a rapport with. So it can, as it meant, it can be confusing, but like, you should give them that look, you know, that sort of speak where it's like, no. And then you stop, you know, like, that's the thing. if you're gonna say no and they're not gonna listen you need to stop at all you know because it can't that that's for both parties you know it's like oh you're heavy petting you're getting horned up you're rubbing you're touching you're like well i don't want to

do this you know so and if they keep if you're whatever they you know whatever they're doing if you're if they're like trying to unbutton your pants and you're like, Hey, hey, listen, I don't want to do this. And I go, okay. And then two minutes later you make out again and they go down to your pants again, immediately, immediately shut it all down. Yeah. That's a good red flag to like identify. It's like if you're revisiting that again, then yeah. They think, they think your no, isn't really a no, you know, and, you know, you gave them a chance to respect that no and still make out and still fool around, you know, but you could just be like, listen, I asked, you know, and like you, you know, and and again.

and all those things because you don't want like it is can be uncomfortable and you know but i don't think you should have much of a leash with these these guys who who aren't respecting your now you know i agree so i have a follow-up question about that guy the end of our night kind of ended with us going to a comedy show and the comedians asking if we were together kind of just doing crowd work and i had said no because i was so annoyed with him at this time and he had he wasn't even paying attention. He's rapidly texting. You know, he's not usually on his phone. But of course, he's rapidly texting.

And then as our night's kind of wrapping up, he's trying to rush me into a cab so that he can go home for the surgery tomorrow. And I was like, no, I'm going to enjoy my night in New York. Like I paid for this hotel room for another night. Like, I'm fine. I'm good. So he goes home, doesn't text me nothing, never Venmo'd me for the flight. So I ended up like texting him like,

hey, just so you know, like my feelings were hurt by this. It seemed like you were distracted and pulled away, but like, let's keep it cool and professional going forward. Happy holidays. And if you ever need anything, like you have like my LinkedIn and my work number, whatever. He never responded to that. So my friend encouraged me to send him like a Venmo request, which like typically I wouldn't do. It's not like I really needed him to pay for the flight, but I was like, I fronted all of this, all of my time. And you totally just

like jerked me around. So I did Venmo request him for the flight and he never paid me not shocking listen i he doesn't sound like the best guy he sounds like a guy with a interesting kink and it's a strong kink right you know whatever you want to shame it or not you know it's a it's a it's a unique kink i've never heard of it you know but whatevs and he'd led with it pretty quickly he had no shame in introducing it to you his focus is sex his focus you know is he was attracted to your nose he was he was attracted to you probably be like i don't want to do this and i need to take my time and it's shitty you know that's something you know for people out there unfortunately when you do wait oh you know i'm gonna wait and wait i'm gonna take it slow i'm gonna take it slow

unfortunately like again guys can wait two months you know you know for a challenge and so you just really have to pay attention along the way and if a guy during this two if you date someone have a couple early good dates, right? You know, it's pretty good. You know, make out. You're like, I like this guy. There's a lot of green flags here. But then all of a sudden some red flags show up, some inconsistency.

Well, if he's, you know, this whole time, these two months before you hooked up, there was never a period where he was never not at some level inconsistent. There was never a period where he really was not at some level inconsistent. There was never a period where he really was communicative. He followed through with the things he said. He was always reaching out. I would be willing to bet if he went back and looked at your communication via text, it was probably, if anything, when it came from him, very sexual in nature. Yeah. It wasn't like, hey, tell me about your day

and really trying to get to know you. So, like, these were data points that you were given that you kind of ignored over the, and your big barometer was two months, so to speak. It's like, oh, well, if I make him wait, you know, whether it's six weeks or eight weeks or if it's three or four months, like, there was, you weren't really paying attention to the data points,

so to speak, because it's hard to do. You like the guy, you weren't really paying attention to the data points, so to speak, because it's hard to do. You like the guy and I'm not trying to, but like, I think it's something that for you to consider because two months, isn't that big of a deal, right? Three months.

Isn't that much for a guy who's in his fuck boy era and he's not committed to you. So like, who knows, you know, he could fuck other people or I was waiting to have sex with you. You know, you're not in a relationship,

you know? And so we needed to pay attention to those data points if while you're making someone wait so to speak to think is this guy really like what about anything he's done has shown that he's really pursuing me that he's really trying to get to know me that is consistently trying to make me feel safe and secure and comfortable and in control. Like you should feel like you're in the driver's seat, like that you have the power. And that's unfortunately, that's where it becomes really cloudy and gray because, you know, that's the dance that you have to like make sure that you're still interested. Because again, we like to be pursued and we like to like, we love the challenge. And as soon as we find out someone's head over heels for us, we're like, eh, I don't know. I'm like, eh, do I like them? Are you sure?

Like, why are they so obsessed with me? I don't understand. You know, like, is this person worth my time? And those are things you're going to have to figure out with your ego. And, you know, because like, yeah, there's a reason why the stereotype of like, the nice guys finish last, and it's always the fuck boys and blah, blah because these fuck boys like are very good at you know sounding uninterested and being busy and that may make you feel like incomplete or like insecure about yourself and then so instead of like oh recognizing these behaviors it's more like that ego says well he likes you babe like he he likes you he is really busy and you you just got to let this really busy, successful guy know that you're here for the, you know, like you're great. You're a great

catch. Let's show him how great you are. And that's just the challenge that you're going to have. And that's the challenge we all have to face, you know, when we're out there dating and trying to, you know, pursue what's really good for our hearts and trying to ignore our egos and our desire to feel validated and feel special. And that's that kind of dance that we always have to do. But at 28 years old, you're an intelligent woman with a successful job. You're an attractive person.

You're gonna have options. And you needed to just get good at in addition to taking things slow and waiting, actually looking at the data points that these guys are giving you. Because this guy was giving you very obvious fuck boy data points. So what do I do when I see him at an event? I'm going to see him in like two months. Or a month, I guess. I would just ignore him. I mean, you don't need the money. And honestly, fine, you sent the Venmo request, no big deal. If you were to ask me, I would have just told you don't need the money, you know? And honestly, like, if fine, you sent the Venmo request.

No big deal. If you were to ask me, I would have just told you not to because you don't need the money. And it's just it's drama. It's you. It's you keeping it's keeping you invested in him, him not paying you. It's kind of like, yeah, whatever. Maybe I'll get around it or whatever. It's like it's making you think of them.

Oh, this guy didn't pay me. It's just keeping you connected and attached to them. Like at this point, you should just be like, I moved on, you know, and like, just, I wouldn't beat your, don't beat yourself up or shame yourself for hooking up with them, you know, learn the lesson and move forward. But like, whatever, you know, it's not the last frog you're, you're gonna like waste your time on, you know, but really think about what you learned in this experience. And what you learned is even though the guy can stick around

and he can be patient with me, you know, when I want to take things slow for sex, that's not the end all be all. Like, well, how is he also showing me that he actually wants to pursue me and get to know me that he is enjoying getting to know me that he enjoys spending time with me you know uh and yeah it can be somewhat confusing yeah it's like it seems like a big deal to say oh i'd love you to come out and spend time with my family i don't think i don't think meeting someone's family or friends is all that a lot of people make it out to be because we don't know how everyone interacts with their family and friends you know like and so those little like moments in a relationship like we sometimes were like oh well he's inviting me to

see his family he must like me maybe but you know what's more important that for the past two or three weeks he was really inconsistent and there were days within the past two weeks where you're like is this motherfucker even interested in me and then out of nowhere he's like oh what are you doing for the holidays you should come see my family and then we forget about the past few few weeks of him being inconsistent and him getting all these various red flags you were like oh well he wants he wants me to meet his family. He loves me. So we just have to check in with ourselves more frequently and be more honest with ourselves about how these people, in your case, men,

are behaving and showing us their actual interest in getting to know us. And even then, you're not going to always get it right. But the good news for you in this particular case there were data points that you did ignore and so it's your your you have something to work with so to speak so is that helpful yeah that's helpful i think that's really helpful nick because to be honest with you i've been feeling like it's me and that i've been attracting like these absolute just like fuck boys and

they're not even that hot to be fuck boys it's like one thing if they're like it has nothing to do with attractiveness it has everything to do with how how they are good at making you feel I know and these men are good at making you feel almost like devalued and you and instead of seeing that as a red flag you're seeing that as an opportunity to prove to them your value. And, you know, listen, like a lot of people, you know, people talk about boundaries all the time and yeah, you know, but there's like a lot of people aren't good at enforcing boundaries. I said, I had this conversation recently with someone, you know, um, bachelor nation, right. I'm a part of it. And people in Bachelor Nation date a lot. And I understand why. Because relatable experiences, it can be very tiresome to go on dates with people

outside of Bachelor Nation and outside of entertainment in general and have to have people ask weird questions, pretend they're not fans when they are. It's, it's, it can be very stressful, right? So I empathize with anyone in bachelor nation who dates and within bachelor nation, I completely get it. And I had dated plenty in bachelor nation. And when I was done being the bachelor, I set a boundary with myself and that was, I'm just, I'm not going to date in bachelor nation anymore. Not because there's not great options or there's great people. It's not for me. And to me, there was more stresses than benefits. And listen, I can't predict the future. And maybe at some point in the future, I'll have to consider not enforcing this boundary because maybe I'll just fall in love with someone.

And they're like, yeah, fuck, you're my person. Maybe that was going to happen. But I wasn't going to just go on random dates just because I thought they were cute or pretty. And I wasn't going to randomly hook up with anyone anymore in Bachelor Nation. And I just, I set that boundary and I enforced it. And there were plenty of opportunities over the following years and seasons where people like tried. And I was like, listen, you seem great, but like, this is a boundary I set for myself and I never not enforced it. And there are plenty of other people in bachelor nation. I have heard it time and time again. Well, I told myself I would never be, say date someone in bachelor nation, but here

I am again. It's like, you know what that is? That it is someone who just isn't enforcing a boundary. You can say, you can talk about your boundaries all fucking day long to yourself and your friends. Just because you name a boundary doesn't mean shit unless you're actually willing to enforce it. And yeah, enforcing a boundary is difficult. It is inconvenient. That's why they're called boundaries. The fact that you have to enforce it and you have to come up with it in the first place means you identified a pattern about yourself or something that you were doing that didn't serve you well and you wanted to make a change doesn't mean it

was like it was bad per se but like for me i was like listen i don't know like me dating in bachelor nation hasn't got me anywhere so i i want to get out of it and there were plenty of moments i met some wonderful people some very attractive women where it's just like i don't know like i'm attracted to them i think they're're great. But I was like, you know what? I set this boundary for myself, so I'm going to enforce it. And at times that was super inconvenient for me. That's what boundaries are. But we talk about boundaries all the time is if we just speak it, somehow we're going to automatically follow through. And it's the follow through part that matters. And that's very difficult. And I think you could do a better job of following through

with some of these boundaries you're setting for yourself. I think you could follow through with not only identifying some of these behaviors, but actually seeing it for what it is rather than make excuses for it and then masking it

as you being super empathetic. Because I think deep down, your intuition is better than you give it credit for and you are just finding ways to ignore your intuition. I than you give it credit for. And you are just finding ways to ignore your intuition. I agree. I'm a Virgo. So I'm very intuitive. I'm kidding. I know everyone's cringing. No, but I agree. Actually, you're really right, Nick. I never thought about that because I do think sometimes I have too many rules. I have a lot of boundaries and I never

thought about it that I don't actually follow through. I'm really good at setting them, but not as good as enforcing them. So. Yeah. Well, you're not alone in that, but I think that, you know, I think we talk about our boundaries all the time and when push comes to shove, we're rarely enforcing them. And it's like, it's like, you know, I would have had, oh, like, well, I told myself I was never going to date anyone in bachelor nation as if like, just saying that somehow I deserve some sort of medal because I, you know, but there are people who do that. They'll, they'll say the thing and literally never enforce it. And they'll, and you know what that is? They go, well, just, you know, you know what they don't, they use that boundary that they allegedly set for themselves.

They use it as some sort of like negotiation tool or manipulation tool, not necessarily intentionally, but they'll say to that person, well, I told myself I've never dated anyone in self-abstination, but you must be special. So like, here we go. Oh, I told myself I've never dated anyone like you before. Oh, great. Congratulations. You're just admitting to someone that you're not willing to enforce a boundary that you're willing to set and that they're so special that they are the exception of why you shouldn't enforce your own boundaries with them. That is not a way to get someone to take you seriously, to respect your decisions, to respect your no's. Again, everyone should respect your no's. I'm not saying that's an excuse for a guy.

But when you show a pattern of saying, well, I told myself I was going to do this, but I'm going to do this for you because you're special. You are telling someone that your boundaries don't really matter, that things you tell yourself that you're not going to do, someone can convince you otherwise. You're showing that with your actions by letting people know that you're willing to not enforce your own boundaries. So we need to be careful about that because we do it all the time. We're so quick to tell people about the boundaries we set for ourselves as if like, oh, just so you know, I can set a boundary. Can you set a boundary? I can set a boundary. But no one ever fucking actually follows through. And it's that following through part that matters. So do you think it's good also to keep your boundaries a little bit more

mysterious? To a certain degree. I don't think, yes. I think it's great to communicate boundaries, but be careful just bragging about it. Saying it doesn't mean anything. If you say it and don't follow through, it is way worse than not saying anything at all because you are communicating to someone that your boundaries don't matter to you and that they can convince you to constantly not enforce your boundaries. convince you to constantly not enforce your boundaries. And you are setting a precedent with someone. And we do that all the time early in dating. And it's a recipe for disaster. This is huge, Nick, because I'm like, this is what happens. I'm like, why do I feel like I give a lot of respect? I'm a really caring person. And I feel like I'm constantly disrespected. But I think I'm showing them that I actually don't, that they can disrespect me. Yeah, you're showing them that like, yeah, you, you, you can, I might, you know, yeah,

it's your, your way. You're over communicating your boundaries and not falling through with enforcing them. Yeah. All right. Well, there we go.

We have a plan. There we go. Listen, it's honestly, I thought about this like the other week where it was, I just heard a story about Subway and I'm like, yeah, that is someone who just doesn't know how to enforce a boundary.

And I thought about just like how much we over communicate our boundaries, but very rarely follow through and what that means. So, you know, you're, you're not alone, but I think together we came up with a nice little epiphany here. Yeah. A good solution. I can still date, but just follow through with my boundaries. Yeah. You're doing, you're doing a lot of things, right? It sounds like, I think your next step is just following through and actually looking at these actions of these men and, you know, take, you know, seeing it for what it is. And a timeline doesn't mean much.

Again, two, waiting two months is not that hard for a guy, especially if you're not in a committed relationship, just because they're not having sex with you. Does, you know, this guy, he's, he's got a million different ways to satisfy his sexual kinks, you know, but you say, well, he doesn't even need me. Yeah. But like you say, you giving someone like a, well, I just need to take things slow. Is it, you're just challenging them and guys love a good challenge and they can be, they can cloud their own judgment. You know, they can lie to themselves about like, oh no, I really like you. And like, again, like I'm not making excuses for these guys, but just know that you're operating with guys that until they kind of can meet that challenge, as soon as they do,

yes, it will completely make them reassess how they feel about you. So stop making yourself such a challenge, you know, and the more you make yourself a challenge or a conquest to be won or conquered, then you are going to run the risk of having to experience these men, like almost like overnight, act completely different to you. You're not a challenge. You're someone to get to know. You are someone that they, you know, should want to invest in you know not because you're a challenge but you know it is a bit contradictory i get because then the next words out of my mouth i'm gonna be like listen when a guy you know don't don't be so empathetic you know

don't be so understanding be the busy person and on some level remember how you feel about guys you're not that interested and when you really like a guy, feel free to act that way, as opposed to understanding and always there and always available. And again, I hate kind of like, because it is a tightrope. It is such a dance between playing a game and not playing a game. I mean, the best approach, as I've said recently, is we always like when Johnny Woo was here, I loved his advice and I've said recently, is, as we always like when, when Johnny Wu was here, I loved his advice and I'll say it, I'll use it over again. Is this act how you want them to act? Be, be, demonstrate how you want someone to treat you.

But to do that is you have to be able to cut bait and walk away very quickly when they, when they don't. And this guy was not mimicking your behavior, right? For two months, this guy was doing his thing and you were doing yours and you were making excuses for his behavior. So for two months, if you're going to make a guy wait two months, you know, and you're going to act how you want them to act, well, you got to make sure that they are reciprocating in those actions. But you were acting one way, he was acting another, and you weren't holding him accountable

for that yeah i should have there are things he said to like there's so many young impressionable girls at this bar like when we met up in new york and i'm like i should have just walked away then oh my god that's such a weird fucking thing to say yeah let's learn but don't don't it does you no good beating yourself up it does you no good at being mad at yourself or sleeping with him it's over it's not he's out of your life be Be grateful. You realized who he was. This could have gotten much worse. It really could have. You could have invested six months in this guy. He was going to keep you around until you finally said, I think you're full of shit. And finally, at least you did that right after

you finally hooked up. So instead of beating yourself up about it, pat yourself on the back and then learn from it. Cool. Thank you, Nick. All right. Well, keep us posted. I'd love to know, we are closing the chapter on this guy, but I'd love to keep tabs on what did you do post this conversation? So maybe in three or four months, I'd love to get a follow-up on how you implemented this conversation into your dating life. Yeah, absolutely. All right. Well, take care. Thanks, Nick. All right. Bye-bye. Thanks so much. All right. Bye-bye. Squeeze.com. It's time to get that juice cleanse on. It's no better time to start a juice cleanse than a new year. You want to detox all the bad juju from 2023 figuratively and literally. And a juice cleanse can help you do that. There are so many great health benefits

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Hi, I'm Emma. I'm 21 and I'm wondering if my married coworker is flirting with me. Okay. All right. Why do you think they are? Is this a man or a woman? This is a man. He's 33 and married with one kid.

So I started working at this company about two years ago and we grew pretty close for coworkers. We don't text outside of work, nothing inappropriate. I've never gotten any sort of flirtatious vibes from him, but we are, we're close. And to some people, it might sound a little odd, but I, me and my friend joke that he's like the last good man on earth. He always seems like he has very good intentions. He's very sweet. Like he'll bring me my favorite coffee or if I'm cold, let me wear his jacket. But he's always done that in front of other people.

So I'm like, does he do that with everyone? He would. Yes. But I just i'm a little bit younger than my other co-workers so and i work with mainly all men okay so um there is another older woman who works there and he's like that with her she's buried um but he's done these things in front of other people so i've always kind of thought if there was any weird or alien in front of other people, so I've always kind of thought if there was any weird or alien intent,

it would be more secretive. I mean, listen, getting you a cup of coffee and offering your coat is just him being a gentleman. There's nothing wrong with that. And good news that he did do it with the one other woman in the office, sure. Fair enough, but why, we can chalk that up as him being a gentleman.

What else is making you wonder if he's flirting with you? And I guess my big question is, is why do you care? So we had a company party, which tend to get a little crazy with the drinking. Yes. So we recently had one at the end of last month and he got pretty drunk and he we were together the majority of the time just hanging out doing the games and whatnot um and he went to the restroom he was starting to get sick so i went in to go check on him and i knocked on the stall i was like oh are you you know doing okay in there and he opened the stall and i went in and he grabbed me and

hugged me which is fine i wasn't i didn't feel uncomfortable you know and he's the stall and I went in and he grabbed me and hugged me, which is fine. I wasn't, I didn't feel uncomfortable, you know? And he's like, Oh, I love you so much. I, I really, truly just, I love you so much. Like you're the reason I want to come to work here. If I don't want to come, you know, I think of you and you make my day better, but I feel that same way about him, but completely platonically, you know, if I'm having a bad day, I'm like, Oh, I'll go talk to him. Like makes me feel better so is he hammered when he said all this yes okay so i was like you know and when you get drunk with your friends you my girlfriends i'm like oh you know everett i love you so much so again i didn't really take it any type of way

um i left him alone actually funny enough someone i was thinking I was like you know I know this isn't weird but if someone walks in this probably would look a little strange so I was like hey you know do your stuff I'll be I'm going to go back to everyone um and someone actually walked in as I was walking out so I was like that could have looked a little weird but whatever people know that we're close so a little bit later in the night, we were, again, he was sitting in his office and I went, I was like, hey, are you doing okay? And he, there was no one around and he grabbed me and pulled me onto his lap. He was sitting in his chair and wrapped his arms around me. And again, I wasn't uncomfortable or weirded out just because i know that he's a gentleman

like you said that's inappropriate yeah his wife would be fucking pissed yes that's my thoughts as well and if i was his wife i'd be mad too i'm like even though i know i don't have any feelings or anything like that towards him it's just it isn't appropriate okay so i was trying to get up be like come on let's just go back with everyone he was still pretty drunk at this point and he's like no no no stay here stay here pulled kept trying to pull him back onto his lap and then he said i have to tell you something i have to tell you something i didn't know what he was gonna say but i just i almost feel yeah i was like your intuition was that he was gonna say admit to some kind of weird feelings

for you and try to downplay i'm like i don't know i just think you're i really just think you're great and i don't know what i'm trying to say and you know it was gonna be some bullshit like that right that's that's your intuition yeah and so i didn't want him to say that because i was like i don't want this can of worms to be opened so I was like cut I was like no no don't don't say anything you don't want to say anything um let's just go back and he's like no no really I really have to and I was like no no just come on and then um someone walked in and so I was like okay look come on like let's go this other co-worker just walked in then he started whispering he's like no I I really have and i said come on like just go so he didn't end up saying whatever he was gonna say thankfully um

and then when we went back into our outside with everyone else we were standing on the same side of a table together and he slapped my ass oh yeah so, so we've crossed way over being a gentleman and we've gotten into sexual misconduct. This might just be me being naive, but even that, I was like, it didn't make me feel uncomfortable just because I was like, I've always felt so like he would never do anything that way.

So in my head, I was like, maybe that was a mistake. He's drunk. Maybe his. I mean, maybe. I'm glad you didn't feel uncomfortable for your sake, but he didn't have the right to do that. Even if it is the fact that he's a married man, you know, like, yeah, if you guys were both single, minus the fact that co-workers he took a risk to slap your ass and lucked out that you weren't deeply offended by it but you had the right to be but he's not single he's married you know so all right so like listen here's my advice to you you know it doesn't

really matter to me whether what he feels about you you know and then it's like oh well he was drunk so like yeah i mean and there's probably my guess is it's like, oh, well, he was drunk. So like, yeah. And there's probably, my guess is it's something like this, right? Where a lot of the, a lot of affairs that happen this way, right? You know, 30 something guy, you know, early in his like marriage, or maybe, I don't know how long he's been with his wife, probably been with her for a few years. They just had their first kid. That's an adjustment, you know, sex changes, you know, during pregnancy and early childhood and things like that, you know, and then he goes to work and he meets this very attractive, very like put together young lady who's nice and sweet and doesn't flirt with him and acts professional, but like very

considerate and he's nice. And he just like, yeah, like he starts thinking to himself, oh, like she's, you know, he's, he's, he's attracted to you. And like, that's not even a crime, you know, like whatever, you know, like just because you're married doesn't mean you can't be attracted to other people, but what you do with that matters. And he is playing with fire, you know, it's like every day he gets a little closer to like leaning into whatever fantasies he has about you. And now then he got, he had alcohol in his

body and he got a little loose and yeah, maybe he probably woke up. I was like, Oh, what the fuck did I do? I can't believe I did that. I'm never going to do that again. That's entirely possible. And hopefully that's the case. But my point to you is you need to be very careful. You are not going to get the benefit of the doubt. Unfortunately, women in the workplace, when it comes to sex and affairs and things like that if you don't know this already i'm here to tell you that they're everyone's going to blame you first you'll be a convenient scapegoat you know oh the young 21 temptress blah blah blah she knew what she was fucking doing blah blah blah she'll want to you know his wife want to blame you he'll

throw you under the bus. Be very careful. And I'm glad that you are a nice person and you're considerate, but it's not the first time he's gotten drunk. He doesn't need you looking after him. He can go and puke on his own and he'll figure it out. His life wasn't in danger. And if he makes a fool of himself, that's on him. He's an adult. You're not his girlfriend.

Certainly, you're kind of his friend, but even as his friend, there are certain boundaries. I think you need to start setting for yourself and enforcing in terms of situations. You put yourself with him. You should never be alone with him, uh, in his office. That's not like midday, very much work related work conversations. Be careful about your proximity around him. And you don't have to make it weird. For your sake and his sake and everyone's sake, and more specifically your sake, I would just act like nothing happened and just be very professional around him. You can be nice. I don't think you just have to start being distant. And

if you don't feel uncomfortable, you don't have to remove yourself. But I would just be very careful about how you interact with him and you can't control what he's going to do but just be very careful about the environment and situations you put yourself in with him because you're just not going to get the benefit of the doubt if he pulls some shit and you know things go south and it's just not worth it for you. Yeah. And I, if he did say that's, I was scared that he was going to say something because I'm not interested in him in that way. I really do love him as a friend, but you don't need to say that anymore. Okay. And I get it. I understand it. And I get it. Like your instinct is like, I don't need to say that anymore okay and i get it i understand it and i

get it like your instinct is like i i don't i'm not attracted to him he really is a friend i am capable of being friends with men and i get it i get your where your attentions are coming from but you gotta consider the fact that you you you can't control how he interprets your actions. And you are a woman. He is attracted to women. He is married. The co-worker aspect, the fact that you're younger, there's a lot of built in, just like forbidden kind of, it feels wrong, so it feels good type of shit going on for him. There's a lot of landmines here so you need to just be aware of that don't be naive because it doesn't matter it doesn't it doesn't

matter what your intentions are it won't matter so i think you need to be very careful regardless of what your intentions are of the situations you put yourself in around him and the good news is you're getting ahead of it like Like nothing has really gone too far where you can't reset your behavior to protect yourself and ultimately protect him from himself. But I would just be very mindful of how you interact with him, what you say to him.

I would keep it very professional. Be friendly, but you didn't stop saying you love him as a person. No hugs. You don't look out after him. If it's cold out, wear an extra coat. You know what I'm saying? All those little like gentlemen things, like he doesn't need to be a gentleman to his co-workers. And quite frankly, when it comes to my employees, like I like to think of myself as a gentleman, but at the same time, also their boss and like they're adults and they can wear coats. And short of me opening a door for my employees like that, that's where my like chivalry

starts and stops when it comes to my employees, because boundaries are important to me. And he is not enforcing his own boundaries. And he is not enforcing his own boundaries. And he is taking advantage of your niceness and your innocence, I guess, on some level. And it doesn't mean he's a bad guy. And it doesn't mean, you know, again, I think he is going down a rat. I think he's just playing with fire and he's convincing himself he's not. You know? Yeah.

That was my in hindsight now that it's you know laid all out it's definitely i've come to terms with more what his intentions were but when it first happened i was like he's such a i guess quote unquote stand-up guy i was like he i don't even know if that really was his intentions. Like he talks about his wife with me. He's never tried to hide anything. I'm sure he's 95% the guy that you think he is, but he is crossing some very serious boundaries. You know, can't be that great of a guy. I'm sorry. I just would never slap the ass of another woman. I'm in a relationship. That's just me. I'm not trying to sound all righteous and shit, but I certainly wouldn't do it with a co-worker.

I wouldn't do it with anyone. But the fact that he is doing it with you is not the most righteous individual. And just because he's willing to open a few doors and be a gentleman, there's a lot of fucking shady dudes who are very chivalrous, you know,

so just know that. Yeah. Their actions matter way more than their words. And, you know, people aren't all good or all bad. He's probably a, you know, he's a decent guy who is certainly capable of making poor decisions for himself. who is certainly capable of making poor decisions for himself. And my advice to you is just you need to be careful because you won't get the benefit of the doubt if things go south. You'll be an easy scapegoat as a young woman in the workplace. It's not fair. It's not right, but it is the

reality. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Thank you. No problem. It was very eye-opening okay well going forward again i don't think you need to over respond i don't think you need to really change anything other than just be careful about the environments and the situations you put yourself in around him and just be very professional be nice you can still be your same nice person you don't have to act awkward around him but have have some very clear boundaries for yourself for yourself and make sure you're enforcing them and don't make excuses for him just because he's nice okay and if if you ask yourself would i be okay if my boyfriend was doing this with another woman, then that's the only answer you need to ask yourself. Definitely. Okay. Okay. All right. Well, thank you for the call. Thank you for chatting with me.

Happy to do it. Keep us posted. We'd love an update on what moves you made or what changes you made and how he responded and all those things. Okay. I will keep you guys updated. All right. Take care. Thank you. You too. All right. Bye-bye. Better Help. This episode is brought to you by Better Help. Better Help has been a mainstay, a friend of the show for some time because we love how Better Help is helping people get into therapy like never before. Allie has talked about Better Help over and over. Before she

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How are you doing? Good. What's your name? My name is Jordan and I am 30 years old. Nice to meet you, Jordan. What's your name? My name is Jordan and I am 30 years old. Nice to meet you, Jordan. How can we help? So I need your help because my mom won't accept that I no longer want to be a part of the Mormon religion. Okay. All right. Is this a recent decision you've made for yourself? So kind of some background on the story. I was born and raised in Utah, very much grew up in like the Mormon bubble. And back in 2020, I kind of started separating myself from the church.

I felt like growing up in the Mormon religion, you're kind of just like expected to just like go along with everything. My parents were always like super involved in the church. I was never super stoked on it, but I was like a very obedient child. And then back in 2020, I kind of started separating myself from the church. And then throughout that year, I kind of had my eyes open to some things. I moved in with my boyfriend at the time, which is very against the church's religion. And like I had gotten some tattoos and I had stopped going to church. So basically,

I felt like I was like kind of living this secret life because I wasn't saying anything to my You had a one way ticket to hell as far as Literally, I was like, my parents are no longer gonna love me. This is awesome. And so I kind of felt like I was living this like secret life. I started going to therapy. And one thing we really like talked about in therapy was like I was never good at like expressing my emotions because growing up in the church you're kind of expected to be perfect so it wasn't it didn't feel okay to bring up anything so I basically come to came to the conclusion that I wanted to write a letter to my parents and just kind of like

put it all out on the board like this is how I'm living my life. Take it or leave it basically. And I also wanted to do that because I knew I could come off as like defensive anytime, like I did have any conversations with my parents. So I just wanted to like open a line of communication and be like, I want to have a relationship with you. This is how I'm living my life. I hope like, you'll accept it and you'll still love me. And we can like, so the tone wasn't necessarily like, fuck you. This is who I am. Okay. It was like, I love you. I care about you. I want to be in your life, but these are my choices I'm going to make. And it's not a matter of if, but this is

what I'm doing. And it's just a question is, are you still going to respect and love me as your daughter? And we can have a relationship, even though I don't necessarily make choices that you guys agree with. Yes. Yeah. I actually wrote two versions of the letter. The first letter, I was like very mad and I just got all my emotions out. And then the second version was very like loving, very just like, let's move on from

here. Smart. then the second version was very like loving very just like great let's move on from here smart um so after that we had like one conversation um my dad he was a lot more like open to it and kind of like more curious of my thoughts my mom was just like very set in her ways which i understand when you've lived a religion your whole life i get that that can be hard if somebody else doesn't believe what you believe. So we had like one conversation. And then basically from that, I felt like it has just been like kind of like an ignorance is bliss type of thing. It's like they don't ask me about it. So we just kind of moved on.

So I thought all was well. And then here we are at Christmas. A couple weeks ago, I went home for Christmas and we're all opening presents. Everything's great. I have one older sister who's married, who is still very active in the church, part of the religion. And we get through presents and my mom goes, I have one more present for you guys. And we're like, okay.

She gives us the present and we each got a letter from her which is very not like her like she's not one to write letters so i like i'm reading the letter and it was very nice at the beginning like i'm so glad you came home for christmas yada yada yada and then the second part of the letter she starts like bearing her testimony sharing shame and judgment yeah yeah i'm so disappointed my heart's make it makes me so sad that you're and she was like i've made it a goal for 2020 for our family to study the scriptures together this year and so i want you to be a part of that and we're gonna twice a month we're gonna get on zoom and we're gonna study the scriptures together And literally I did not say anything. I was just like, and my like whole demeanor changed. Like my sister was like, Oh, I could

tell you were mad. And cause in that moment I was like, yeah, this is all about you. It's manipulative. Yeah. And I'm like, that can be your goal. Like, that's awesome. But like, I've made it clear that like, I don't, how did you respond? And I, I just didn't say anything. And then we just kind of like, so there's really been no response up until this point. There's been no response. And so what's hard about it is like, I've never tried to like put my beliefs on her because I'm just to the point where I'm like, if that makes you happy, I'm stoked for you, but it doesn't make me happy. So it just feels like she can have her beliefs, but like I can't have my beliefs. I mean, also like let's just

get into the fact that you're a 30 year old woman and even if you were like active in the church like sorry mom not gonna make your like weekly family meetings okay thank you and so and what's hard and this is where i like know where her brain is coming from is like in the church like you're very much taught like you're in charge of your like children's salvation and you guys all need to be together. Sure. And so like, I know for her, it's more of like, oh my gosh, it's my responsibility. She's feeling, yeah, she's probably feeling that shame and judgment that you're feeling from her.

She's feeling it from her church and her peers. So that's an opportunity for you to have empathy for your mom and homie help for the anger that you're maybe feeling towards your mom. It's just like, listen, all you can do is understand where she's coming from. And I have found just in life, like one of my biggest, like, I think skills that has helped me navigate life and adulthood and interpersonal relationships is it just like, you can, again, people often confuse empathizing with someone with agreeing with them. Empathizing is just like understanding potentially why they think the way they do or why they're making decisions that they're making. Not that you

would make those decisions, but it's like, all right, I get it to a certain extent. Like, the empathizing is just coming to an explanation is why the people do what they do short of you thinking they're just fucking insane or monsters or narcissists or just idiots you know yeah because when someone does something that we don't agree with or we wouldn't do ourselves we have to try to understand their motivations you know and so your mom empathizing with your mom is just saying understanding why she is feeling this pressure and where it's coming from and her writing you this letter isn't just simply her saying fuck you i don't respect you i'm disappointed in you you suck which i'm sure it can feel like that sometimes empathizing with your mom is just being like yeah

i don't know she's probably feeling this pressure and like, this is your mom's, I don't know how old, 50, 60, 70 years old, right? So 60 years of being inundated by her church and the pressure she must feel. And the tricky thing about religion is we're raised to think it's all inherently good. It's about sacrifice and things like that.

So even when it's difficult, even when our religion asks us to do difficult things, we think we're being righteous and it's so complicated, right? So all you can do, and I say that because like the worst thing you can do is for yourself is to just allow yourself to get really pissed off at your mom for not necessarily respecting your letter or your boundaries. And you have the right to do that, but it's not going to get you anywhere because your goal, because I'm guessing, I don't want to put words in your mouth, is to like have a relationship with your parents and love your parents. And so to do that, you're simply going to have to accept that before you ever showed up in this world, they had 30 years of being committed to this religion and their whole lives. And to ask them to reprogram themselves is maybe an impossible task.

And it's not really your responsibility or your concern. It can help you just empathize. So I guess to me, I don't see this letter as that big of a deal. I see it as an expected moment. Your mom was never going to just give up and accept this decision at face value. That was never going to happen. You know what I'm saying? So we can almost, instead of getting mad, you can honestly be like, okay, I wasn't sure what form it was going to come in, but this is what it is. And you know what? How endearing for mom. She doesn't give up. She's a fighter. She's

committed. I mean, honestly, there are some aspects of your mom doing this that we could attribute positive qualities to yeah you know it's just she is channeling it in a way that you don't agree with yeah all right so how do we handle this yeah i feel like what i'm trying to figure out at this point is to like clearly i need to have another conversation that's like i'm not going to do the scriptures with you, but like, I know she's going to take it like so personally because it's like her job. Well, that's the guilt. That's where you as your daughter have to like recognize

that parents can be manipulative. Yeah. And how do I word it? Because I don't want to make her feel bad. Like, and I love that she loves the church. I think that's so awesome do the thing you did before write that letter read read it make sure it's the tone that you want so to speak maybe be willing to write it again but the tone is you know it may be a letter's

best you know maybe you're not you're clearly we're communicating via letters so we can we can keep it i kind of want to be a big girl i just want to say it to her at this point. That's fine too. As long as you can. I don't think the letter got it. So you call her up and say, hey mom, listen, I thank you. First of all, thank you for the gift. I know it came from love. And mom, I respect you. I love you. I would, if I were you, I would think about characteristics that you inherited from your mom that you admire about yourself and her. And I would say, mom, you are this, you are that. I love that. And I feel like I am grateful to have inherited those qualities that you have. I think sometimes we maybe channel it differently, but I just want to say how much I love and respect you. I just want to start there. And I want to thank

you. And I'm sure this might disappoint you. And I am sorry for disappointing you because as your daughter, I never want to do that. But as your adult daughter, I hope you recognize that sometimes I'm going to, and it's not because I don't love you and I don't respect you, but I do have to make choices for myself. And I'm not going to participate in these scriptures because I choose not to be a part of the church. And again, I'm so sorry, mom, that that breaks your heart because I really understand where you're coming from. I really do, mom. I do. But I have to be my own self. And I love you so much. And I just hope from the bottom of my heart, you and dad will still love and accept me for who I am. And I have accepted that you aren't happy with my choices. I get that. I

really, really do mom. But like, is this where I'm at? And I'm just asking you to respect that and, and just kind of just always keep it positive and like stand your ground. You just got to stand your ground. You can't react to your mom. You know, it's, it's, it's when we get, it's when we get mad and we match your energy. It's when we, we do the same thing they're's like oh well they're gonna do this so fuck that i'm gonna do i'm gonna do that back right that's when your mom knows she's got you so to speak your mom wants you to care about that's why parents like shame that's why parents guilt because you know they know what fucking works i'm not mad i'm just disappointed you know and they fucking know it and i'm gonna say that shit to my daughter you know and i'm gonna you know until it until it. And I'm going to say that shit to my daughter, you know, and I'm going to, you know, until

it stops working. I'm going to fucking do that because like shame and guilt is a powerful teaching tool because I do want my kid to have a conscience and I want them, I want to work on their character and your parents did that. But at some point you became an adult and at some point you decided to make decisions for yourself. And some parents have a very hard time with that. I got very lucky. I mean, I was raised in a hardcore Catholic family, very similar to the

Mormon with a lot of like very traditional, you know, my parents practice a very traditional lifestyle when it comes to Catholicism, but like they had so many fucking kids when I turned 18, they're like, oh, good luck. I don't have time to parent you anymore. And I got lucky for that, but not everyone is like that, you know. And so you just have to show your parents your willingness to stand your ground while not reacting to them in a way. It's a simple thing, very hard to do, but it's not complicated how to execute. And so you just got to stay consistent, lead with love, and not react to their manipulation and all their little things that they did that you're used to that still, even as a 30-year-old woman, work. Yeah, I know. That's

what's so frustrating. I'm like, I am a grown adult, but here we are. I'm scared you're not going to love me anymore. They're going to love you. They will. It's in their blood. They can't help it. And just your mom writing this letter is an act of love. Yeah. It is. It doesn't feel like that. It feels like disrespect, but it is an act of love where your mom's coming from. She is doing it because she thinks it's the right thing to do. Yeah.

And she loves you. So then from here, like she's persistent. You know what I'm saying? Like she loves to like send a church talk in the group family message i'm a part of a group family chat i never fucking respond to and you know i got a lot of shit for it for a while and then i just like i i have an ability i've had it my whole life i don't know where i get it from, but when it comes to doing what I think is right, and I'm not always right, but I'm able to follow through with what I believe to be right.

And I've never been a people pleaser. I've never easily succumbed to peer pressure. And even when it comes to family and parents, it's like, hey, this is what I'm going to do. And you can respect it. You cannot. You cannot like it. But I'm going to do. And you can respect it. You can not. You can not like it. But I'm going to follow through with this.

And I also love getting feedback. I'm coachable. I've always had tough coaches. But I'm willing to follow through with my decisions. I'm willing to enforce my boundaries. So this is just a next step in your evolution as an adult. And this is you dictating the relationship with your parents and not the other way around. I mean, this is really the first time in your life in 30 years that you are willing to try to dictate your relationship

with your parents rather than them dictating it with you. And they're like, think about that. It's for 30 years. They, you know, at one point you came out of your mom's body and you were this baby child. You know what I'm saying? Like you were their whole, they had to like you. That's so good. I mean, I don't know what it's going to be like. I'm an expecting father. It's going to probably blow my fucking mind, you know? But so that's this, again, empathizing where your parents are coming from. Because I think as kids, we get so angry at our parents for, you know, being imperfect parents, which they all are. And we get older and then like, well, fuck you. And instead of just

like empathizing and understanding where they're coming from, we get angry with them. And that's not fair. And we blame them for what they got wrong and how, you know, because I'm sure your parents, you know, did some shit and caused you to have some sort of fucking childhood trauma that you probably haven't even dealt with yet. I don't know. You know, like we all parents, you know, did some shit and caused you to have some sort of fucking childhood trauma that you probably haven't even dealt with yet. I don't know, you know, like we all have, you know, so we can choose to be angry at our parents or we can choose to just understand them and then set new boundaries with them. And again, this is all under the kind of assumption that, you know, we're talking about normal mistakes parents make, not, not, not, not abuse or not act, you know, you know,

that you are in a dangerous environment or something like that, that that's a different conversation. But I think for you, you got to lead the charge, you know, and you got to, you got to keep fighting that courage and that strength to stand up to mom and still love her and be brave enough to realize that, you know, they're not, you know, and you're, you know, look at what your, your mom going to throw a fit, your dad's going to be like, come on, you know, come on, babe. And then, you know, maybe you and your mom don't talk for like a month. I don't know. And then you'll talk to your dad and your dad will be like, you know what I'm saying? Like, it'll do that thing, you know, but they're not going to disown you.

I know. I just, I got to remind myself that they haven't disowned me yet. So yeah, you'll just be the person who like, they're just going to worry is burning in hell. Yeah. It's fine. It's fine. Yeah, it's fine.

I just need to have a conversation. Yeah, that's all. It's just an adjustment, you know, and I get, I get where you're coming from and I get where your fear comes from. But I,

even if your mom does try to disown you, you got to stay on your ground, you know, stay on your ground, you know, because she literally thinks she's saving you from hell. So I know that's what's crazy is like and I don't want to break her heart. Like your salvation or like my salvation is not your job. Like to her it is, you know, to her it is. So you just, you have to empathize with that and say, listen, mom, well, I know I'm not making all the decisions

that you agree with. Just know that like, it is important to me to be a good person. I am who I am because of you and dad. My character matters to me. And again, I understand I'm not always making decisions that you agree with, but like, I do want to thank you for raising me to be the woman that I am, you know, and I feel good about who I am and I feel good about the choices I make and in the

integrity that I have and yada, yada, yada. And again, like find ways to thank her for what she has done. You know, it's hard. It's going to be hard for your mom to get mad at you when you write a whole letter of like how you admire her and how you're so grateful to have all these characteristics that she has. It's going to be hard to get mad at you when she's like, oh, my God, I'm a great mother. You're right. You know what I'm saying? So like, you know, she's going to manipulate a little bit back, you know? Perfect. All right. Okay. Well, I appreciate you. Thank you so much. My pleasure.

Please keep us posted. We, we love a good update, especially when it comes to these types of dynamics. You, I'm sure there's thousands of people listening to this who relate to you very much. Yes.

I will definitely give you an update. All right. We'll take care. Okay. It was good to talk to you. You as well. All right. Bye-bye.

As always, don't forget to send those questions at asknickatthevilefiles.com for all things texting office hours, Ask Nick Mediation. You know the drill. We are back tomorrow with the one and only Diablo Cody, award-winning Oscar writer. You know her from the movie Juno. She's got a new movie called Lisa Frankenstein coming out. She's also a big reality TV pop culture fan, and she will be with us to break down all of your favorites like Vanderpump, Bachelor, Traitors, and whatever else is going

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