The Viall Files - E709 RR - Love is Blind, PCAs, VPR, Bachelor, and Traitors with Peter Weber, Gen Parisi, and Ciara Robinson

Episode Date: February 20, 2024

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Reality Recap Edition! Today, we are joined by Genevieve Parisi and Ciara Robinson to chat about all things reality television. First, talk about the People’s Choice Awards and if influencers should be attending award shows (according to Billie Eilish? No). Then, we talk about Traitors and are joined by Peter Weber to talk about his experience on the show and what we can expect from the rest of Season 2. Next, we talk about Vanderpump Rules and Real Housewives of Beverly Hills. Then, we tackle the first six episodes of Love is Blind - from the pods to the Dominican Republic. Finally, we talk about the Bachelor and Joey’s communication with the women of the season.  “You have great teeth… he may as well have complimented her knees at that point.”  Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes. To Order Nick’s Book Go To: http://www.viallfiles.com  If you would like to get some texting advice send an email to [e-mail] with “Texting Office Hours” in the subject line! To advertise on the show, contact [e-mail] or visit https://www.advertisecast.com/TheViallFiles  THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Vuori - Get yourself some of the most comfortable and versatile clothing on the planet at vuori.com/viall. Not only will you receive 20% off your first purchase, but enjoy free shipping on any U.S. orders over $75 and free returns. Go to vuori.com/viall and discover the versatility of Vuori Clothing. Nutrafol - Take the first step to visibly thicker, healthier hair. For a limited time, Nutrafol is offering our listeners $10 off your first month’s subscription and free shipping when you go to https://www.Nutrafol.com and enter the promo code THEVIALLFILES. Firstleaf - Try something new this year with Firstleaf. Go to https://www.TryFirstleaf.com/VIALL to sign up and you’ll get your first SIX hand-curated bottles for just $44.95.  Episode Socials:  @viallfiles @nickviall @pilot_pete @genparisi @ciaracrobinson @alison.vandam @justinkaphillips @leahgsilberstein @dereklanerussell   Timestamps 00:00 - Intro 08:05 - PCA’s 14:57 - Traitors 43:10 - Vanderpump Rules 58:51 - RHOBH 01:06:38 - Love is Blind 01:43:48 - Bachelor 01:52:38 - Outro  

you're crazy what's going on everybody welcome back to another jam-packed episode of the vile files reality recap edition i am your host, joined by the household. We got sweet boy Justin, Allie, and Leia with us. And returning to the show, special guest, always special guest, Sierra Robinson is with us. Hey. Give it up for Sierra.

And joining the show for the first time after some, you know, honestly honestly i've been trying to get her on for a while but she was like afraid no i wasn't i'm here now let's focus on that uh the one the only dear friend and friend of show uh genevieve parisi did i say that right yes you did it's a beautiful name just in general genevieve parisi thank you you go in you go by jen no i either one well actually it's your second time on the show you zoomed in i did zoom in did you think i was mean to you yes yeah yeah i didn't wonder why i didn't want to come on for a bit huh well i just uh you were in a you were in the feud with uh what's her name

shanae shanae yeah yeah there's so much to say about that. Well, Genevieve was on Clayton's season of The Bachelor and The Bachelor in Paradise. Was that nicer to you on Paradise? I don't think I did an interview.

Well, no, but just like when I talked about you, when we talked about you. I don't know. Maybe you didn't say much. Maybe you just like left it alone. Like, I'm just not

going to say anything because I don't have anything nice to say. Well, you were mean. I just remember you were mean to Shania at Women Tell All. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. No. Totally. I said the diaper comment. And I, yeah, we talked about that. Apologize for it. It's okay. Yeah.

No, no. Totally agree with that. We've all been there. It's nice to have you now on the safe side. Yes. Now we get to talk about other people. I know. I like that.

I like that a lot better. We're happy to have you, Genevieve. Thank you. I'm really glad that you're here. We have so much to talk about other people. I know. I like that. I like that a lot better. We're happy to have you, Genevieve. I'm really glad that you're here. We have so much to get into this episode. We got traders. We have the one and only Peter Weber is joining us. Former basher himself now referred to as the bloodhound of traders. We will have the opportunity to talk with Peter all about his experience on traders.

And we have some questions for him. Kind of like, why are you being so fucking secretive with your your uh fellow faithfuls peter anyways we'll talk with him then we have to get into some bravo vpr housewives when then it's the premiere love is blind is finally back i'm so excited about that what i consider to be the best reality tv show on television currently and then we'll wrap with uh some bachelor and uh our boy joey who has profusely apologized for not knowing who Ruth Bader Ginsburg was. And he went to the White House over the weekend. Did he meet Joe? I think he's the second Bachelor to meet Joe, the first being me.

Yep. I met, well, I drove Joe's, President Joe. Is that disrespectful to call him Joe? Apparently on first name basis well i met him yeah you know so who are we yeah and he uh low-key hit on my fiance so oh well you should be used to that by now and look at her well when you if we told did we tell us or i don't give a shit now uh no we purposely didn't tell this part of the story we told we talked about the rest of it it when you meet the president.

So we drove his motorcade. Lovely. This team was lovely. They're all reality TV fans. Stop it. There's his a lot of people who work in very high positions of power at the White House. Love reality TV, specifically the bachelor. And then at the end, we got to meet the president.

And when you meet the president, it's like meeting a king. So they line you up. They have a flag. You can't take your own picture. They'll take a picture for you. They'll send it. And I will say for all the criticism that Joe gets about his,

um, mental awareness. Um, I was, I was impressed by his awareness. Right. When we met him. And so you go in line

and then they gave Natalie and I the option to go as a couple or together. We were like, let's go separately. We each wanted a moment. And Natalie went first. And, um, they're like, and they, they, they present you, we were like, let's go separately. We each wanted a moment. And Natalie went first. And they're like, and they, they, they present you.

They're like next in line is like Natalie Joy, you know? And Natalie walks up, Joe gives her a look up and down and goes, Oh, Natalie. She was like, hello, Mr. President. And then he was like, you know And she was like, hello, Mr. President. Okay, Marilyn. And he was like, you know, he was like, I have a granddaughter named Natalie and she's also beautiful or whatever. He was very respectful, but I was like, I think the president's hitting on my girlfriend at the time. You have some competition, Nick.

Were we engaged at the time? I love that he like went for it and then was like, but I've got a granddaughter. It's not, whoa, initial reaction. I'm like 15 feet away and I had to see him go, oh, Natalie. Wait, so what did you say when you went up next?

Well, then I went, I was in a nice suit and he was like, it was Saturday morning because we drove to the motorcade two days before and he was like in this blue blazer. It was like for a president, it was like your jogger. Okay. You know, it was a morning because we drove the motorcade two days before and he was two days before and he was like in this blue blazer. Like it was like for a president, it was like your jogger. You know, it was a very casual, no tie. You know, he was about to probably get on a plane

to go to an event and see, I was in like in a nice suit, you know, it looked, it looked fresh and in the nicest possible way. He's like, wow, you look really good. He also complimented me. So, you know, and, and then that was him being the politician. He was again with again with everyone he spent a few seconds like really trying to have a conversation and connecting with who person he was meeting so like it was it was impressive that way but he was like he wouldn't like shut up about how good he thought i looked in like in a complimentary way almost like almost like he was like hey i usually look better than this he literally he said that no he didn't yes so some could say he was hitting on you as well but he didn't say

he just tossed his eyes at natalie like it's not just you anyway so joey but joey got to go to the white house which i'm here we'll get into it but like i'm reminded just how pretty privilege is the greatest privilege in the world of all the privileges you could have. Because like, when was the last time a bachelor's been invited to the White House? None. I don't think they've

ever been invited. And listen, at the end of the day, what's the difference between Joey and all the few bachelors we've had? He's pretty.

We'll get into it later. We have so much. When we get to bachelor, we'll... Sierra disagrees. I just feel like isn't the number one requirement of the bachelor

is that you gotta be pretty? I feel like a lot of the men are. Beauty is subjective. Okay. As we'll get into when we talk about love is wine. But yeah, Joey's popularity is. I think he's one of the cuter Bachelors. For sure.

When the sun hits his eyes and those curls. But the Bachelorette is reacting to Joey in a way that they haven't reacted to a bachelor in some time I feel like he's a good bachelor just what makes him good I think the way he responds to the women he actually listens and he gives a thoughtful response which he seems

very genuine he does he seems genuine and I feel like he really pays attention and wants to get to know these women so I do think yes he's nice on the eyes I think I think he pays attention and wants to get to know these women. So I do think, yes, he's nice on the eyes. I think he's pretty and he presents himself as simple. And I think what I've learned over the years of watching TV is that a lot, not all, a lot of the heterosexual women who watch reality TV, it seems like they may say they want to X, Y, or Z.

But what I have noticed is that they seem to respond to the pretty ones who present not necessarily are because we don't really know joey all that well he might be very complex right reality tv kind of dumbs you down oversimplifies you but pretty and simple i feel like he's kind of um insinuating that there's more to the story he keeps kind of saying that like yeah i i have a darker side or something like that and i was like well okay let's see it he told charity he's like i'm kind of a pain in the ass boyfriend i don't think he it was he said he he didn't say it was like i'm i can be difficult in relationships yeah yeah i'd like to tap more into that yeah i'm like

where yeah i don't know i don't know. We haven't seen it. Before we have Peter Weber call in, we had the PCAs yesterday. People's Choice Awards, for those of you who don't know. Unfortunately, Natalie and I did not get to go. We were invited, but had to decline because, obviously, we'd rather spend time with our daughter, River. But I always really liked the PCAs.

This show, The Vile Files, is a People's Choice nominated show. Although I don't think they have the Top Pop Culture Podcast Award available anymore. Either that or we've been shadow banned. No, but I don't think they had the award. I've worked the red carpet for the PCAs the past couple years. And so went as someone someone who is like loosely affiliated but what I always liked about the People's Choice Award is that it's one of the few awards that it lets it

lets the the mids interact with the real celebrities you know like totally your reality TV stars your tiktokers your influencers like that's where Nelly and I got to meet Ryan Reynolds you know there's so A-list celebrities at the People's Choice Awards. And then there's also, you know, your Ari Automatics won best reality TV person for a competition series. So there's awards for your actors and your movie stars and then your reality TV stars. I don't know if they have any TikTok awards,

but I only bring that up because Billy E yet. Billie Eilish was overheard. And it's like the setup, every award show is different, right? They have like, sometimes you're in a theater, sometimes you're at a dinner setting. This was more like, it's like a wedding venue. Everyone's at a table. And then Billie Eilish was overheard

questioning why there's so many TikTok stars. Do we have the video? We do. Who is she talking to? Do we know? Kylie Minogue. Oh? Kylie Minogue. Oh, Kylie Minogue. Yeah.

I love that. Oh, you can hear. You can hear it. Yeah, she's like, she's covering her mouth. She says there's some like TikTokers here and she's like pointing over to their direction. Yeah, which, you know,

what do we think of that? I don't know. I think it's funny, but I'm also like, I kind of get what she's saying just because I'm like, it's not just like guests that are invited that are nominated. It's like I almost feel like the tick tockers and like Alex Earls of the world are getting more screen time and more carpet time than the actual nominees. Well, yeah, but, you know, it's 2024. Yeah. There's a new kind of celebrity in town, you know, like it's the age of the Internet. Right. Your working actor who might be, you know, on their fourth TV series is less notable and has less star power and social media following than, you know, your Alex Earls or your Chris Olsen'ssen's sure and whether we like it or not that's the name of the game these days it's just like i just wonder like what kind of chaos it would have sent if like the grammys 10 years ago if like brad and angelina showed up or something and it's just like you have no real reason in being here

yes you have star quality but like this isn't your event. What does that even mean, though? Because I'm saying like it's like these TikTokers aren't nominated for anything. I don't know if they're presenting, but it's like. No, they're just they're promoting. They're just they're promoting. But it's like, I don't know. I feel like the attention that they're being given is as if they were nominated. And it's less than on the people who actually are nominated.

I think the difference is it's like with people's choice. I think like Nick saying, that's always been more of an award show for all different kinds of medias and genres and different careers. But then you watch something like the Grammys where like I follow G flip on Instagram and they went to the Grammys and they were so excited to be there. And they're very much like in like a back seat,

not at one of the main tables, but obviously like a very successful musician. So for them, it's this huge, big event. And then you have the Alex Earls on the carpet and it's like, but Alex Earle isn't a singer. Why is she there? Right. I'll tell you why. Because all of these award shows from the Oscars down to the PCAs, like don't perform as well as they used to. Ratings wise, like they don't get the clout and attention. Every other, like every show, every medium out there like every show every medium out there every show that's out there on television is fighting with all like the bevy of television options or streaming options influencers influence these award shows are trying to get their bang for

their buck and they are trying to give people a reason to tune in do you think it would ever backfire though if these a-list celebrities are just like, I don't want to go. Remember last year, all those TikTokers were there. I just, I don't, I mean, to me, celebrity is a funny thing in itself. And so if any celebrity, I don't think it's a good look for Billie Eilish to sound like that. I think, you know, it's again, it's 2024. The age of the elitist is not not it's not where we're at right now and to anyone for anyone to act like they're better than anyone else is this is kind of a of a bad look for again for a made-up award show you know for like it's i feel like tiktok has gotten so big and like just for one example alex or like she does have a lot of influence and so people

do want to see her there the thing about tiktokers though is like the staying power is like they come and go but it's like any celebrity though i mean i guess and maybe as i said i'll be the odd man out but i'm like my whole thing is that i'm like for example the grammys it should be about musicians i'm like the osc. And I feel like I trust me. I'm a big consumer of TikTok. I watch all the videos. But at the same time, I'm like, at what point are the Grammys, the Oscars, everything is going to be like TikTok awards because I'm like the movie stars dying recording artists. There's just so many.

There's so many different ways to get your music and streaming and independent and everything like that, that it's just like, who watching for the grammys at the grammys yeah i don't know i mean i think award shows in general are kind of silly yeah i mean if i just think times have changed also at tiktok and grammys i mean how do how do musicians become relevant these days on tiktok now yeah you know a lot of them are discovered there now yeah i will say pulled up the people's choice awards website and there's four categories it's movies tv music and pop culture okay so a lot of them cross over within that as well for pop culture is a very broad very broad term yeah but like some tiktokers are also in like movies now so nobody would ever see brad and angelina at the grammys though and be like why are brad and angelina here right but i feel like it's also going to be like the talking point of every tabloid when those were relevant that I'm like,

oh, it's going to be Brad and Angelina were at the Grammys. Why were they there versus the focus on the actual musicians that were invited there that have music nominated? You know what I mean? So I'm like, and that's probably why I don't watch award shows anymore, to be completely honest, because there is that. Yeah. I'm like, I watch the VMAs for the musical performances, and that's probably the only award show that I watch. I'm just glad there's an award show like the PCAs for us mids, you know? So

hopefully Natalie and I will be able to go next year. Well, it's time to talk a little with Traders. Remember, we do spoil. Spoiler alert. We are up to date through episode eight of Trader. So if you are not yet, coat your earmuffs.

Every Thursday night at 9 p.m. Eastern on Peacock. Truly, Peacock. You know, half the shows we talk about are on Peacock. So get it now. Peter, welcome. Nick, what's going on, man? Good to see you. Good to see you, man.

You're in New York, right? I am, yeah. I just got back last night. I was out in Chicago for a wedding. So I'm going to see you. Good to see you, man. You're in New York, right? I am, yeah. I just got back late last night. I was out in Chicago for a wedding, so I'm going to be back in the city. Nice, nice, nice. I'm going to just chill for a little bit. Well, hey, man.

We're loving you on Traders. It's been fun to watch. Appreciate that. It was honestly the time of my life. That was so much fun playing that game. I really enjoyed it. You seem to really thrive. My first question,

did you feel like walking into, I guess, the castle with your peers did you feel like people underestimated you because you came from the bachelor franchise like was the people's first impression of you like dumb and pretty i think yeah there was a little bit of that going in but i so i watched ari um in the season prior obviously leading up to leaving for filming and he obviously obviously, you know, obviously killed it. You know, obviously I think there was a little bit of an impression maybe that I didn't have, you know, any kind of like game type experience per se, just because obviously the nature of The Bachelor and having it really just be so opposite, so emotion based, not really

strategic and that just game type feel. So I think, you know, I use it to my benefit. If it did, I think it, you know, I use it to my benefit. If it did, I think it helped me. Totally. Okay. My big question for you, because like last week we were slightly critical of you because it was like, you were crushing it. You were doing everything right. You were this, like you were the bloodhound. And then Trishel had this great plan, which, you know, it was like, Hey, we know Parvati is's a traitor but phaedra is probably also a traitor who's flying under the radar so let's get phaedra out first and then we'll deal with parvati and it

seemed like you weren't ignoring her so props to you this week for like hearing her out because it seemed like she had a good plan but my big question to you is why were you so damn secretive with the other faithfuls because it seems like you're crushing it and then all of a sudden you have these great plans, but you're only telling like two or three people and that seems to be getting you in trouble with your other faithfuls unnecessarily so. But can you shed some light as to why during the game you thought that was the move?

Yeah, you know, looking back on it and watching it back, obviously hindsight's 20-20. And I probably should have done a better job of not ostracizing so much of the castle the way that it kind of happened. That was never my intent, to be honest. I just went into it and people ask like, oh, what's your strategy? And what kind of advice do you have for people going on future seasons? And for me, I went into the game, not trying to find the traders at first, my whole strategy was I wanted to go in and find who could I give my 100% trust to. Once I decided

that and committed to that, I was committed the entire game. So if I was wrong, so be it. But I was willing to, once I gave that commitment to people and felt like, okay, I think we're on the same page here. I was willing to go to the end of the game with them. And it just, it became unfortunate again because obviously people's feelings kind of got hurt and people watching it back. I'm like, oh, shouldn't have maybe closed that door and their faces so much. We're like, get out of the room, man.

Well, specifically, you know, with Pager and MJ, I think you guys are referring to when it all kind of started, I had rushed everyone into one of the other rooms to tell them about the recruitment. And I wanted to be very specific of who I was going to tell that to. So I wanted to use that information possibly later on. If there was a card to play, I wanted to keep that in my back pocket. But I wanted to give my group that knowledge so they could know it as well. And the two people that came in, obviously editing is a little bit different and you only see so much on the screen, but MJ and I had actually kind of gotten into it a little bit, a couple

episodes prior where right after Ekansu had been murdered in that coffin, I was very, very convinced for a little bit that MJ was a traitor and that that part never made it to the screen, but we had had a lot of discussions and I was just very, very suspicious of her. So I think she was the first one to come in. I'm like, okay, we only have so much time to talk they only give you you know 30 45 minutes to talk before you got to go and once once once they kind of stop the conversation period to get ready for the missions gameplay talk is completely ceased you can't talk whatsoever so you have very limited time and it was very like kind of a rushed environment when you have a lot of information to get out so mj came in i was like i can't can't risk this with her right now because i'm not 100 off her trail and also with phedra um

at that point again it really wasn't shown yet in this in the in the show but i was very suspicious of phedra she had there was two slips that she had kind of done or one slip at that point that i knew she was attached to harvardy she kind of had a Freudian slip and she was the second person to come in. And so I'm like, dang, I can't risk this with her either. Else this whole conversation is just going to go down the drain and we're not going to be able to have it, you know, be a productive combo. Again, you look back and it's like, I wish anyone else would have walked in and I would have like with open arms and like, you know what, you want to come listen to our conversation a little bit, maybe, you know, on the fly, kind of switched up what I was saying.

But with those two, I just wasn't comfortable letting them hear what I had to say in the short amount of time that we had to say it. Gotcha. Well, it was my big like CT. I thought like CT was the big swing vote. And I don't know from your perspective in real time, but he seems very faithful ish on the show. your perspective in real time but he seems very faithful-ish on the show and what what stopped you from bringing ct into your circle of trust is captain faithful that's what i refer to you first

off that was i never said that term all these these housewives the ones throwing that stuff out but that's great man like you also you're crushing it you're doing a great job setting traps and thinking forward thinking like you're you're crushing the show i mean i say that as a compliment that yeah it was um dude yeah and for me too like i think maybe that's also an aspect like on the bachelor it just doesn't come out but i you know me like my best friends i'm the most competitive which is definitely coming out here now almost to bite me but i am the most competitive person you'll ever meet um and obviously this this kind of this show this format let that really come out i think he was the one that so when i had initially leaked that lie i

picked three people it was dan it was parvati and it was ct and obviously those were the three that i was most suspicious of at that time i wasn't on to phagia yet and i just i don't know, I couldn't get a proper read. You know what it was? We had told CT. It kind of was like forced out in conversation way, way back. I don't know if you guys remember. There was a little bit where Kevin and I, it was kind of like the first gameplay strategy I think I tried to put into it,

where Kevin and I decided to come up with this little feud between the two of us. And we were going to, again, try to hopefully use that as a card later on in the game to see if it could benefit us in whatever way we would see as the game played out so he had come into that conversation we were like in the billiards room and like kind of heard about it and he acted he acted a little weird with once he found out what we were doing he like i remember he got like really really dramatic and like brought like all the pool balls in it was like wait wait this is genius and and uh okay so we're you guys are going to be this and i'm going to lie undercover and he almost like was overacting a little bit to where i was

not comfortable i was honestly stressed and i'm like oh if he is a traitor right now this is horrible because he's going to know all this information at the very beginning that we have this little trap or this little play going on. And it goes back to that moment really, really early on. And I never kind of like dropped that feeling with him. And just, yeah, it wasn't fully comfortable yet. There was reasons, all the, you know, if you want to call it like the group of people that I was faithful with, there was reasons, specific reasons I had why I knew at that point they couldn't be a trader.

And I didn't have that with CT or anyone else at that point. Gotcha. From a production standpoint, I'm curious, it seems like, you know, on The Bachelor there's, and Genevieve can confirm this, there's a lot of hurry up and wait on The Bachelor. It seems like there's even more hurry up and waiting on traitors because the production value of the show is incredible. They obviously keep you guys very very it seems like a lot of the time you're separate like at night you guys separate rooms and things like that because you don't know who's gonna get murdered like how much how much downtime do you have by yourself while you were filming it seemed like well actually no to be honest by downtime by yourself was very

very limited it was super long days we would go i think we'd show up at like around eight or something uh in the morning we'd go to like midnight 1 a.m filming and there was downtime obviously but you're always still with with the group you're with every every all the players in the castle whether it was eating lunch or whatever but it was just so difficult because the second that you know production came in and said okay conversations are done they were done and if you try to like sneak any combos in like you're obviously mic'd up the entire time so they can always hear if like you're trying to like be sneaky with it or at all you were always with each other but you didn't have the opportunity to actually talk game and have more conversations that you would have hoped that you would have been able to have at

that point yeah they tried to recruit you to be a trader and you obviously turned it down. Did you have like, I think like being on The Bachelor again, like if you go on the show, the way the show is edited or the way the fan base is, they make a villain out of nothing, right? You know, that's how I was a villain in any season. I was too strategic. And so everything about The Bachelor is about not being strategic. It's about leading with your heart. Were you reluctant to say yes to being a traitor for fear of an edit almost because of like PTSD from The Bachelor? Like, because I honestly, I would, you know, it's like, I, you know, the way Bachelor Nation consumes TV, you don't want to be seen as manipulative or someone who can lie very well and things like

that. Like what was your reason for turning it down? And did your experience on The Bachelor had any impact on that whatsoever? Truly? No. And I feel like obviously it was like a big storyline, but it's just, it's been kind of, I didn't expect, I guess maybe I should have expected it, but in the moment I wasn't thinking it it wasn't that that deep for me. Like I had a really good idea. Like the second I remember opening that door, I knew why they were bringing me there for that interview. I'm like, oh, something's gonna happen here is some type of recruitment. I opened the door, I see the letter. But truly, it was just in that moment, I was feeling so good about where we were at in the game. I thought we had some incredible momentum

and I just, I didn't want to turn. I didn't want to throw. I felt like if I would have taken that recruitment, I had a very good idea that it was Parvati and it was Phaedra at that point that had sent me the recruitment letter. And I just didn't want to throw my game and kind of put like a wrench in it at that moment. I felt it was just we had so much momentum um our team was working so well and honestly what was going through my mind aside from just the number one thing I was like I you know I would have felt maybe I took it too seriously honestly because I remember like watching three in season one and I was like I I would have felt like absolute doing like what she kind of done to the group and again that's the game so you can't take it too seriously and like too literally it's a game but i just remember

thinking i could not do that to people like i feel like that would just weigh on my conscience like crazy like even if you know at the very end of the game everything works out great i just would have felt like so that was going through my mind um i didn't want to mess up my gameplay and then i was worried i was so gung-ho like in my strategy and my trajectory at that point i'm like if i have to now switch i think i have you know like maybe the acting chops to kind of like keep people off me and like no suspicion but i wasn't completely confident that my gameplay wouldn't have switched up a little bit to where because there's the people here are freaking smart like people can get reads and and pick up anything that you know this is what they

do a lot of you know big brother players survivor like they play these games i wasn't 100 confident that i was going to be able to keep the suspicion off when i had to now switch up my gameplay which is funny though because it's true after i rejected it you would have thought then i would have tried to befriend some of the traders like i did with harvard and everything so i'm like ah that kind of like that kind of didn't help out yeah that was another thing when you rejected it i'm surprised you didn't like come out and be like hey i got they tried to recruit me but then you were weirdly it's like you were you played it so well except that you were bizarrely secretive every once in a while which put an unnecessary spotlight on you i i get that but so i thought they were going to show it

to you like i ended up so i want i told the group right right away about the recruitment and then actually this last episode i had a conversation with kate and kate was kate smart you got to hand it to kate kate smart but she was the first person they didn't show this but she was the first person where i played that card and i revealed to her just like completely come clean with her. I told her that I had been recruited and I started to do that throughout the show. Again, that didn't make the screen, but I tried then playing those cards later on, hopefully to try to gain some trust with people. Again, maybe they're going to believe it, maybe they're not, but that was just the route that I went to. Honestly though, watching it back, I it back and kind of like maybe it did this was like an unintended

consequence but i feel like i didn't realize they were going to like take it so hard and like it affected i could tell like it affected parvati you know phadra was like was pissed and i think i even saw something with parvati saying how she like then kind of switched up her game just how to like fight almost of me like rejecting it which I think actually was an unintended benefit of having them kind of like take their foot off the pedal so much with like the perfect gameplay strategic route and kind of get a little emotional about it and be riled up because of the rejection. So who knows? Was there any like in show drama because of like the game playing that people did take personally?

They don't seem to be showing a lot of it. It all seems within the context of the game, but I'm wondering, did it get clicky almost on a personal level while filming? Honestly, not... Actually, no, I can't say that. I can't really spoil what's coming.

There is definitely one relationship that sours okay like no other and uh and gets not on my point not on my from my side but gets very personal yeah okay i feel like we're kind of seeing that with uh trichelle and ct like she's making it kind of personal where it's like you should have lit my torch she's smart she's like she's very good at game playing so then why didn't trichelle kind of put her name her neck out on the line more i feel like you were the one who went out and said that you know um i think that it's phaedra and that um and you were kind of covering

it up with parvati and didn't let everybody in on the plan and then it kind of blew up at the round table like why didn't Trishel do that? Cause you became a target. Trishel brought up Phaedra, but I think Peter, yeah, was the, he was the one who took it.

Yeah. I would say with that. And again, it didn't, it don't, it didn't all make it on, but we had had those conversations. Like one of the,

and then John and I had a conversation after, cause I was like, I would just been like, I just wish he would have come with us. Cause he was, you know, kind of part of our group. And I, we had had the conversations with him, with Kevin. We, we, everyone knew what the plan was. I think John's reasoning, what he had told me was just that

it was just kind of too much of a last minute switch where he didn't want to, we were going to originally go for Parvati. And then when we explained to him why we wanted to go for Phaedra, he didn't necessarily like that last minute of the switch and wanted to kind of stick with the original plan. Obviously, you know, it's strength in numbers. And if you're not all voting the same, it's not going to work out. But I just remember at that point, I committed to like, I was like, okay, I'm going to be as loud as possible. I think that's my safety. So I've already been kind of loud, you know, halfway through, I think I kind of like started making

a lot of accusations and getting loud. And then I figured this is my safety because I'm continuing to put a lot of pressure and heat on the actual traitors. It becomes very obvious that then on the next one murdered, I was kind of using that as my shield when I didn't really have a shield. And I just like I committed to staying loud. That was the strategy. Final question, Peter. Who from Bachelor Nation would you like to see on this show? And would you also agree that, like the other franchises,

they have multiple housewives, they have some multiple people from Survivor and Big Brother, but only one Bachelor contestant. Who would you like to see? Can you give me three women and three men from Bachelor Nation that you would like to see

and maybe what pairings that you think would be good on next seasons of traders to be completely honest i even told you i think you would kill it on this show i think you should definitely get the opportunity you want were you gonna do it uh i've been asked yeah okay but you know scheduling and and you know this show is uh makes it difficult it would be fun i would like it would be fun to do i don't think i, I don't, I think like you, I would enjoy being a faithful. I think I could be good at reading people.

Yeah. I'm not a very good liar. I think if I were a traitor, I'd be like, oh, sorry. No, it's not me. Like, they would for sure pick you

to be a traitor first. I don't think I'd be a good one. I think I'd get eliminated. And I think I would have a target on my back as a traitor because I think, you know, of my reputation. I hear you on that. I think a good strategy going forward or like a format for this show, I think they should randomize. Like they shouldn't have just so everyone goes into it knowing that it's no actual, no one from production, Alan not picking it. They should do a randomizer to actually pick the traders just so any of that suspicion is taken care of and disappears.

That's a good idea. All right. So other than myself, who else from Bachelor Nation? I love the couple idea. I love Marcus and Larcis. I think I was just with them for Super Bowl. I think Justin and Susie would be great together going in as a couple. Yeah.

I'd like that. That could be a super interesting dynamic just because what i love about the game is just it's so complex it's so dynamic it's like just truly ever-changing every day especially having like i remember having so many theories oh well they have to have larsa you know this is a perfect option for a recruit because you know no one's suspect this with her boyfriend and then being able to murder the boyfriend and take heat off like there's so many ways you could play that as a couple. I was asked this in the beginning, too. I think Hannah.

Hannah Brown. She would be good. Great personality. Obviously super smart. I think Chris. Chris Harrison would be super interesting to watch. Oh, yeah. That would be a good one.

That would be. He would be super interesting. Who else here Jason Jason Tardy that guy is super just analytical the way his mind works I think he would he could be I could see him as a traitor

or a faithful and playing either role exceptionally well you know from a physical aspect to just being able to contribute I would say those are the top ones that come to mind. I like the Chris Harrison one. It could also be interesting to have exes on if they did Jason and Caitlin. So, funny story.

When you're showing up to the castle, we're in these Range Rover big SUVs. You see they show them a couple of times in the show. You're with your first group of people that you ever see. So, I was with Sandra, Sheree, and Peppermermint and you meet everyone else for the very first time at the castle and so we're driving around and like doing some final like tracking shots right before we go in and i'm in the front right seat and um we're passing another car that's coming opposite direction and from a distance i see there's a girl in the front right seat of the other one and i see her and my like my heart kind of like stops because i thought it was i thought it was kelly and i was 100 convinced

i'm like they did not bring us both on this show together i mean they would i'm sure they tried yeah why haven't they done that yet but it was eckins who like look they have a very similar look and so from a distance i like remember like oh my god what would you have done if kelly was there peter dude i don't i don't know that would have been some insane tv i really don't know where do you and kelly stand these days are we not talking are we friendly or you know we're it's it's it's cordial it's very friendly we don't i mean we don't talk but it's ever since it ended you know it's been what's coming up on a year now so you know she's very happy in a great relationship and i'm stoked for her um yeah absolutely no no hard feelings so we're good we love that oh what do you think uh are you watching the bachelor at all you

you you keep up i have not i watched the first first episode of this season just been kind of a lot of stuff going on recently so i need to need to catch up but yeah not not caught up to speed yet quite yet but i love joey i think that guy he perfect choice i'm sure he's killing it have you met him yeah yeah we met um we were at the u.s open uh so his playing field there in new york this past summer and yeah he's a good dude incredible all right peter well good luck the rest of the way excited to see to see, uh, how things finish for you. Uh, I can see, I mean,

other than, other than you being like, other than you having a kind of a big target on your back these days, I can see you winning it. You got the chops. That's for sure. Although there, there are a lot of,

there there's, it's surprising how many players that like are very still like under the radar that like are not. And I can't help but wonder if that's like a really good thing for them, you know? But we'll see. Yeah. I definitely, like I said,

my whole thing was once I got loud, like I got to stay loud just to keep heat on people. And that's the route I chose and we'll see what happens. All right. Well, excited to see how it plays out for you, buddy. I appreciate you taking the time.

It's great catching up with you. Of course. Likewise. You guys take care. All right. Talk to you later, bud. Thanks. All plays out for you, buddy. I appreciate you taking the time. It's great catching up with you. Of course. Likewise. You guys take care. All right. Talk to you later, bud. Thanks, Peter. All right.

Peace. Oh, yeah. I've been enjoying watching Peter play. A thousand percent. Reminder, a little housekeeping note. This week on Going Deeper, Nellie and I, Nellie returns to the Vile Files. We are the guests for Going Deeper, talking about our birth story, everything about the delivery

and being parents together. So we'll be crying and sharing our emotions this week on Thursday. So I hope you guys tune in. And then on next week, Going Deeper, we have reality TV royalty. Truly, we've had a few of those. J. Wilde last week,

incredible episode if you haven't listened to that. Kandi Burris joins us. What I like to think of is her Bravo exit interview. She recently announced that she will not be returning to the Rio Housewives of Atlanta

after she has the longest tenured run as a housewife. But it was a great conversation with K Candy in preparation because I haven't watched a ton of Housewives of Atlanta, but really got to know the background of like people

like Phaedra. Sheree is very much like on Traders, like on Housewives. You forget she's on the show. She's one of those that's under the radar. Yeah, even on Housewives. She's like a couple like lines,

like moments. And that's it. And that's it. Spring, summer? Spring, summer? She by Sheree? Yeah, she by Housewives. She has a couple lines, moments, and that's it. Spring, summer? Spring, summer? She by Sheree? Yeah, she by Sheree. She by Sheree? Spring, summer?

Fall? Summer? But Phaedra. Phaedra's a lawyer. Yeah, and well, we get into it with Candy, but obviously, very infamously, the drama between Phaedra, Portia, and Candy. I can't wait. That's when Phaedra left the show, so. Yeah.

And it was very... That was a very... A little rough. ...deplorable accusation that Phaedra was involved in. It seems unclear, but Phaedra's ability to deceive and lie on traitors raises it raises some eyebrows i'm not gonna lie where i'm just like yeah it's like wow you're really good at this right and so it's like moments that i've seen on the show where i was like so genuinely broken down and i'm like wait was that an act. Because you can do it very well. Yeah. Parvati also pretty boy.

Parvati, when she was lying to John, was bringing up like her childhood and like past trauma. That's some like got the waterworks. She was crying. I mean, there's gamesmanship. And then there's like there's actors who can't make themselves cry on the spot. And there's like making someone feel bad for your past. When you tap into your past childhood trauma to manipulate someone,

game or not, that's a bit crossing a line. I was going to say, I kind of want to bring that up when we discuss Bachelor a little bit. Okay, wonderful.

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vanderpump wants to do this new tahoe trip. So he goes to the bar, invites everybody. And that's where we get the whole Ariana's the queen of the group comment. So I don't know what we think about that dynamic. Well, queen of the... It's like it's Ariana's walking that fine line. Also, congratulations to Ariana for winning People's Choice Awards. Yeah, I think it's just the name of the game. I think people get sick of a frontrunner after a while.

Consecutively, every year, there is somebody who has the top storyline, who is kind of the queen bee with Katie's wedding. That was her season. Stassi season three. Like there's just so many different seasons where it's like this person is the top dog. So it's also like it's not shocking that Ariana would be in that position, let alone that I do feel like everyone's trying to rally around her and bring her up. And this is also, what, two months, not even, after Scandaval happened. So it's like, I also think that the timeline

of filming versus us watching it is kind of forgotten as well. Yeah. You know, because everyone's like, we're over it, and we are. But I'm like, this is a couple months, if that, after this wrapped up. But it is kind of interesting, like this is a couple of months, if did it after the success of Vanderpump. But it was almost like, yeah, I got him a season 11.

But the success of Scandival almost tied their hands. Because here you have Ariana, who truly seems almost indifferent about whether she's on the show or not. And that she does present a, I don't give a fuck, I'm untouchable type of energy. Right. a I don't give a fuck I'm untouchable type of of energy right and it's like the Vanderpump itself is a show that has these like trips

that always have some sort of drama any other season you would have this trip whatever the scene is whatever the reason she knows what one of seen one of she knows weddings you know and if she is not getting married to someone new then they have a new reason you know of a trip but now you have Ariana being like no fuck that and if and if any of my people go

i won't talk to you anymore and ariana has this power and pull on social media and in pop culture in general it's kind of ruining the flow of the show you know because typically they would all go on this trip and then the person like in Ariana would begrudgingly, like Katie last season was like, she still went to Sheena's wedding even though she wasn't invited to Sheena's wedding, you know. But now you have Ariana being like

kind of trumping what the producers want it feels like. It was kind of fascinating. Yeah, and we have Sheena having to go talk to Tom in a back alley because she doesn't want to be caught talking to him. She's like, I can't talk to you. Not here. So dramatic.

Not here. She's like, absolutely not. But meet me outside. Like almost like a Bachelor one on one where they throw a table and two chairs like kind of in the middle of nowhere. It's a throwback to earlier seasons where they're sitting in the alley and it's like table and they're having like a weird conversation that has no point to it so i mean legit it's a callback classic but she made some good points i mean selfishly i can't every every conversation with tom i think we're like reminds people of the interview uh that he had here on the vile files because he's just like, it's time to come in and be really sorry to be contrite, to like fall on my sword. And then we're like, well, I don't know

what you're about to say, but we all know how you really feel. Yeah. His issue is that he, he says sorry in the butt, but it's like he overemphasizes his humanity where we're all like, we know you're human. We know everyone makes mistakes. But where you're not emphasizing is that you are sorry for what you did, because that's what I feel like he always is like, no, I know I did this, but but but I'm being attacked. And I'm and it's like, we know, we know. But I'm like, if just like an ounce of humility guaranteed, people would be like, oh, you are showing your humanity instead of trying to force it down our throats that like we're being too hard on you. Yeah.

I just at the end of the day, I just think he is sorry he got caught. Yeah. Sheena had a point. She said, just start acting like you are sorry. Like you're walking around at your concerts and like on interviews acting like you don't care. Well, it's even the tell here when he was like, I wouldn't cheat like that again. And it was just like, you didn't even think like that. Like that again and it was just like you didn't even think like that like that again like that

um swartz he's he's gotta he's gotta move on i feel like he's trying to do good but he has that target on his back like he's trying to make friends with everybody in that group but it's the ariana wedge that's like blocking it i mean i think you can you can have two things at the same time like he can still be friends with Sandoval and work on mending his relationships with the others without trying to force this group mentality because it's just when I was 28 and we went out to the clubs all the time. But like, you know, people grow up. Yeah. It's like I miss the group as a 40 year old man, regardless of scandal. Just kind of doesn't present growth.

It presents delusion. It's like I want us to backtrack to this where it's like, hun, no, you either work on your relationship separately and you can keep Tom as a friend. But this whole like Ariana and Tom will come together and we're all going to take shots. It's like, where do you see that? To Lulu. That's maybe part of the problem with Vanderpump cast is you have, you know, a lot of people who have done some bad things. Everyone in this cast has had a low character moment, minus Katie. Ariana, I guess her biggest low character moment is acting like, is being indifferent

to all the other infidelity when it didn't affect her. Right. And now that it is, she is kept in, you know, kept in boundaries. Also, like when Ariana is like, you're confusing, what did she say, strength and boundaries with- Ego. Ego. I don't know if I agree with that in a sense that like, yes, having a boundary, but when

you say things like, no one likes you, she was being mean to Swartz. Whether she wants to have Swartz in her life at at all she doesn't need to low blow and do you feel like she found more strength doing that in a group setting versus like a one-on-one situation exactly yeah so like yeah strength setting a boundary does take a lot of strength but like you know saying to someone no one here likes you in a group setting that's just mean and also boundaries are things that you set for yourself you don't set boundaries for other people to abide by yeah you know you have sheena who like in the group setting is kind of like yeah tom fuck you and then meanwhile she's like hey sandoval meet me on the side you sure you want to come to my show yeah i i feel like those

but i guess what i was trying to say is like the shit like the men have not evolved no and it's just getting to a point where there's just no evolution with these men that it's become harder and harder to like give a shit about these guys who just quite at the end of the day don't grow up it's the yeah it's the Peter Pan syndrome that was working for them for the drama in the 20s well I guess even then for Tom like 30s but I'm yeah, it's the Peter Pan syndrome that was working for them for the drama and the 20s. Well, I guess even then for Tom, like thirties, but I'm like,

now it's almost kind of sad and repetitive to a point to where you're just like, learn a life lesson. Just one. And when, you know, and I, I've,

I've recently, I've gotten to know James Kennedy over the, you know, a little bit. He seems like a nice enough guy, but when he's your number one guy who also does have a questionable past right it's tough you need some guys that you want to root for right you know and they just they don't have that right now at all well and the thing that i think vanderpump might have um shot themselves

in the foot with is that it's really hard for them to bring on new people and have us be invested because these people have been friends for so long in each other's lives that we feel like we're a part of this group. And every time they try a season with bringing in new people, we're just like, all right, give us give us the OG cast. So I'm like, I don't know that there unless there was somebody that had like a voice of reason that we were already introduced to. I don't see how you can shift the dynamic without it just being like, all right, last season. Do we care about the new VPR spinoff coming out the valley not at all yeah it's called a valley it's uh it's like a spinoff of vpr you got jax taylor you have kristin oh i have heard about and i believe jasmine good from my season of the bachelor i don't know if she's officially part of

the cast but i i know she's like friends with that group. And I think she will at least be on it as like a B character, if not main character. I don't I don't know. She's definitely on it. I saw her over last summer and she was talking about it. Oh, really? Yeah. So she's definitely on it.

I feel like we're going to have to at least chime in. Jax Taylor is you can tell he's about to be on tv again because he seems like we don't spread rumors on this show but he is he is making he is getting attention through posts and it's it just seems like jacks is back jacks is back in a way that um he's he he might be willing to in a a very Jax Taylor way, burn down everything around him for the sake of good television. Well, and then that was my opinion when I heard about the spinoff. I was like, this man should not come back to reality TV.

Like, you finally, like, you've got the wife, you've got the kid. Like, I'm just like, this man finds a way to just become the target. A lot of people want to see that, though, because they've only seen this negative side of him. So the Valley is supposed to be his redemption arc in the public eye as he has this family and these kids now to show them that he's changed. I think that's a setup. Maybe. I think it's a setup because I think it's

in it. Where's the drama? I don't think Jax Taylor is a good person. No. And I say that in reminding anyone who listens to this show for the vast majority of the people that we discuss, we don't know who they are. These shows are heavily edited.

We don't like to decide on people's character based off what we're watching on these television shows. But well, one, I've met Jax Taylor. And two, this is a man who the shit he has done for the sake of television is truly deplorable and disgusting and destructive. Yeah. And bad, like something only a bad person could do. And while he's not been on TV, we keep hearing from the people around him,

oh, he's changed. He's finally this. He's finally that. We'll see when he gets a camera in his face. And he's motivated by airtime and attention. Do you think there will be crossover with Vanderpump? For sure. Yeah, I've heard that.

I watched an interview where I think they're going to do kind of like the crossover they did for Beverly Hills introducing us to Vanderpump. It's going to be like Jackson and Tom Sandoval having a conversation. I think that there's one person who's going to show us growth is Kristen. Yeah. She's been on pause for a while. You don't believe so? I don't know. I think Kristen's lovely.

I just, as I said, I feel kind of the same way that you do with Jax that I'm just kind of like, it'll be interesting to see with the camera on if we're going to be able to kind of cut the dramatics and even then what are we left with as a show? Well, that's another question is like will it be you know if if these people the action let's say jack

stahler proves me wrong he's like no i've really made some changes in my life and i want to demonstrate that on television same with kristin then it's like i don't know what then then it's like what what do we have as a television show right but like kristin's uh low moments on banner pump to me came across as she almost like someone who like couldn't help themselves who got caught up in drama her her past issues really creeped up but she there wasn't like a i don't care if i'm a good person or bad person energy where that was jacks it was like there there was no moral compass and with kristin there was like someone who had the moral compass, but like had a hard time enforcing a boundary.

Sure. I was like, there's questionable decisions that were made, but I'm also like, she's just somebody that I feel like feels a lot in the moment and then maybe can like look back after things have calmed down with reason. But I think she's just very heightened in her reaction. So that's where I'm like,

she's great for reality television. But as I said, if we're trying to make a show about like maturity or life after reality TV as like domesticated house life, I'm just I'm confused as to where the direction is going. And also to go back to Jax as well. I was like, if Jax behaves the same way that he does being on a high from the cameras and whatnot, I'm like, he has the most to lose, like he's got his house he's got his family he's got you know what i mean so i'm like i'd be scared for the decisions that he could make that could potentially be like the collateral damage that's just something he really values those things sure yeah you know he might have gotten born ready to be back on television just for that reason so yeah or maybe money got

tight you know what what, what was he doing? Well, his debut back was house of villains. Yeah. I mean, what are the, but how has Jax Taylor been earning money recently? He's got a bar in a studio city.

Yeah. Yeah. Did you know? Is it a bar or is it like a, I thought I heard it was like inside of a bar. It's like a, it was like a, like a beer tub,

like almost like a that's what I heard I haven't seen it yet it used to be did you go yeah didn't you go with Wells and Sarah

yeah I went for like a Sunday brunch and it's Jax's Studio City on Ventura it's a nice sports bar

the TV's all over the place so it is the bar is the bar is his because I remember going to this bar before it was that and there's no remnants of.

Okay. So it is. So it's his and Brittany's bar. Brittany and his bar. Yeah. So, I mean, I know that that but that's also an investment. And that's relatively new. It's right next to Rocco's on Witsit.

Yeah. So it's like everybody thought it was Rocco's, but it was where Rocco's used to have their additional private room. And now it's turned into Jax's studio city so was it busy? yeah for football it was rocking out okay you know yeah it looks pretty cool yeah the decorations I met Brittany took a shot with her she was lovely like I'm like they're very

personable walking around so I'm like they're they're doing the whole you know I just feel like Jax wanted a bar because Tom and Tom have a bar so I'm just like it's very reminiscent of that. I don't want to say anything negative, but. Yeah,

I just, I wonder how much money Jax Taylor is able to make on a social media. Like what brand is going to be like, you know what? This is the guy we want repping our product. I feel like Britney

is the breadwinner to be completely honest. I was like, that girl has an endorsement on a regular since she's gotten on the show. She was Jenny Craig, Cup She, like she's, breadwinner to be completely honest i was like that girl has an endorsement on a regular since she's gotten on the show she was jenny craig cup she like she's girl is working yeah good for her yeah brittany always seems like seems like a lovely person truly a little bit i know about her

i didn't understand it i was like what do you see that i don't but i mean they're still married so happy yeah yeah okay can't see what happens after this uh this show i said you don't. But, I mean, they're still married. They look happy. Yeah. Okay. Can't see what happens after this show. I said, you don't talk about rumors, but I heard some allegation. We've heard those too, yeah. Yeah. But we'll see if... They play out.

See if they play out. We don't want to be the ones to start them. But, again, it just... It seems like you can tell Jax taylor's about to be on tv with the with the things that are flying out in the ethos box of of social media is there any housewives we need to beverly hills not too much um we're kind of in this plateau in beverly hills where nothing hasn't really happened the past couple of episodes it's really been slow we just continue the whole narrative of erica being like i want apologies. That's kind of like the main anchor. Which I don't get.

I'm kind of with Dorit on this one, where it's just like, again, it still feels like Erica is trying to, I said this a couple weeks ago, convince people that she didn't rip people off, where I don't feel like the majority of people out there actually think that she was part of Tom's deception. Right. out there actually think that she was part of Tom's deception. It's just more how she is handled being affiliated with Tom and the benefits that she received via Tom's deception and how she's handled that is still there. It's like, but she doesn't allow anyone to question her.

She, as Doreen pointed out, she's ultra defensive. And she did not, in my opinion, handle it in a way that doesn't deserve some type of criticism. Yeah. That's what Kyle was saying. She's like, I never questioned your relation to the actual crime. It was the way you responded to it and the empathy that you didn't have. Yeah. So.

And the way Erica's handled it, it's just like, I don't know. Yeah. It does that perspective when she was talking to the therapist and she was like I had nobody to fall on so she kind of turned into this defense mode because like her finances her position just her whole livelihood was if people like if she does

wrong then she does wrong so that was kind of like I guess I was really mad watching this past episode it was at the end I think it was at the end but they showed I think it was at the end, but they shot... I think it was at Dorit's house? I don't know. It was a shot of a dog chewing up some sort of item. It was like a torn

ball or something and this dog was eating a foreign object. And I was like, what kind of monster holding that camera let that dog eat something he shouldn't eat for the sake of the shot? I missed that. I missed it as well you're talking about this clue what you're talking about am i the only one who saw

that no it was a real quick moment if you weren't paying attention you definitely would have missed it and it was just like some b it was like it was a quick shot before you like you know it's like a b-roll shot of whatever house they were at before they you saw them in the house it sounds like something that they probably just had in the archives and they were like, we have a second to fill. Here's a dog. Yeah. And threw it in.

I do get most annoyed when the animals are like, something bad is happening to the animals. Like the women can all be yelling at each other. Things are happening. But when an animal is in harm's way, I'm like. I also wonder too if like the editors kind of throw that kind of stuff in there as well. Kind of being like, not my favorite. Just so you know, this is what goes on at Dorit's house. You know what I mean?

Like where it's just like if they're opening up to Dorit, like I'm like Dorit's not really like a favorite to begin with. So I wonder if they were just like, and also if you caught that, she doesn't pay attention to her dogs either. Because that's what got you. Establishing shot, yeah. You know? I think Anne-Marie needs to go.

Yep. She's a bad housewife. Even to the point where when she is like trying to go yep she's a bad housewife even to the point where when she is like trying to be petty and mean it's not it doesn't even land why are we still talking about crystal i don't understand i thought that they wrapped this up already in last week's episode like yeah i don't know i have a theory so she was at the people's choice awards with like the beverly hills group of women so i think she's coming back for a second season as like a contractual thing.

And I have a theory that there was stuff that was cut out. Who knows what that is. But like this season, she's a main housewife, but there's nothing that has happened. Well, her big storyline obviously is something that I don't think Bravo wants anything to do with when it comes to her husband, who again has been accused of really disgusting things.

And a lot of her storyline has also been included in flashbacks. So a lot of what we know of her has been like a flashback back to her talking, not it actually happening. Yeah, I just, everything seems forced with her.

It's just like the drama seems forced with her. I don't know. Sure, it was a good party though. Yeah. Yeah. I didn't really get the,

were they expecting the people buy jewelry there? Millions of dollars worth of diamonds. Here's a $500,000 item. They do this all the time on Beverly Hills. There's always like a, there's a Birkin brunch the last season. And women buy it.

They'll buy the million dollar whatever it is. Do they really or do they pretend buy it? Garcelle, with the Birkin one, she bought it. And then she went on record after saying she never touched it for like months after. Because she wanted to like possibly return it. And then she's like, you know what? I'll do it. So months after because she wanted to like possibly return it and then she's like you know what I'll do it so it's for the camera to one extent is there a good resale market when it comes to

Birkins I think so yeah they only appreciate in value they're hard to get a hold of as well so I mean what's the average Birkin go for starting like 10 or 15k and aren't they like a lot of them like hundreds of thousands of dollars oh yeah I feel like that's on the lower yeah't they like a lot of them like hundreds of thousands of dollars oh

yeah i feel like that's on the lower yeah that's like a starting bag if you purchase if you purchase directly from the store the average is 9 000 to 30 000 but when you resell it it like jumps a ton what yeah should i go out and buy an alia birkin absolutely yes yes i think you should go by now you're telling me it's gonna to jump in value? Yeah. I mean, it's hard to get directly from the store, though, because you have to be like a longtime customer and you have to know like one of the people that are dealing it. You have to be a somebody. You have to go to like, no, they have to like choose you and then they will call you when they get something in stock.

Yeah. The only way around it is that going to a store either in the UK or Paris. I just saw a TikTok on this. That's the only way that you can kind of bypass the getting on a list to get called to buy a bag. So it's like getting a hair transplant in Turkey. You don't have to fly to a different country to circumvent the...

Okay. Yeah. You should get one for River too. Yes. Matching Birkins for Natalie and River. Yeah, do it. More people need to listen to this show. And a lot of people do.

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Again, that's tryfirstleaf.com slash V-I-A-L-L. As new parents, Natalie and I like to spend as much time as we can at home with our daughter. We don't like leaving the house, but we also forget things. When we do go to the grocery store or we go to the hardware store or any store, it's easy to forget things. Well, that's where DoorDash comes in. It is saving our life and helping us be better parents because not only can DoorDash meet your obvious needs, like getting the late night food snack that you want or the butter that you forgot to get, but also DoorDash can get you some at-home essentials.

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Oh, right. I've been waiting to get in here. Love is Blind. I'm excited for this. Oh, yeah. Six episodes. Six episodes. Lots to talk about.

I just want to say once again why I'm reminded of why I enjoy Love is Blind so much compared, you know, quite frankly, to The Bachelor, because to me, Love is Blind is having real conversations. They're having real like relationship conversations that are happening in 2024. And we're getting into the weeds of how people fight and what they care about early in dating. And The Bachelor bachelor bachelor's a fantasy for whatever reason the bachelor has decided to stay with their their script you know yeah 25 30 wimp contestants come in everyone has their sad story on their date and then while some sad stories

are very sad some are seem feel forced and even then you have the bachelor Joey and these women, like you have no idea how these people get along. You have no idea like how they might fight. It's obvious that Joey isn't really getting to know any of these women because it's just the show is, and that's what the show is. You know, it's the bachelor's job to allow these women to share their story about who they are, but it has nothing really to do with their dynamic and their chemistry. And Love is Blind is all about that. And it just makes it for more interesting conversations because you can really dissect, you know, how these people will get along or not get along. And that's what makes it so good.

And I wish the bachelor would evolve that way. I wish The Bachelor would get away from the trope of the sad story and maybe try to bring in some real life conversations. When was the last time we had a bachelor or bachelorette, like, get into it with someone they were interested in by their behavior that they were able to work through? You know, it's never really about them two. It's always about them telling a story and then the bachelor being, oh, well, it's really, you know, I'm just here to say nice things and give you the space to share your story.

But like, we have no idea Joey's real connection with any of these women. I wish we'd see like more kind of behind the scenes moments. I know that they don't travel together, but like, that's such like a big thing in a relationship, traveling with your significant other.

And I'm like seeing how these women, if a bag gets lost or, you know, they're tired, whatever. Where I'm like seeing a moment between two people that it's just like a real life situation. That would be so much more interesting for me to watch than a fantasy date. That's like, oh, we flew to the top of the mountain. And I'm like, it's not going to be like this after, you know. Good point. Because all we see is trip after trip after trip. But it's like, what about the siblings?

How is the getting there? That was a 16 hour flight y'all just went on. Like, I want to see him interacting with these women after getting off a 16 hour flight. Is she still as charming as you thought she was? That's a date idea for The Bachelor, because usually the lead flies separately. Yeah. You know, all the women will fly on a commercial flight and they all get the middle seats

because they're booking last minute flights and then the lead will be on a different flight first class. Yep. Group date on a plane. Or a one-on-one on a plane. A plane was on our plane. Really? Yeah, and I had to walk past them.

And then they were probably told not to look at them? Yes, of course. Yeah, yeah. But imagine having a one-on-one on the plane. Hard, maybe hard to execute. Not a helicopter, a plane. Get some GoPros or something. But if y'all are taking these like 16, they went to what, South Africa from Los Angeles?

Was Malta, Malta's in Africa, correct? Malta is the south of Italy. Okay. So I was, I'm completely off on that. My bad. But even then, still like a 12 hour flight. Like they have those, the planes with the bars and the moving around and stuff. Like I want to see. Like a little pod or something on the plane fly them someplace to where

they have to they can interact on like in a bar situation we're having a group date or put four with the bachelor and fly the other ones on a different one and we can do that in different transitory situations but yeah and i want to see joey observe and ick yeah and then have to bring it up and and have that be a discussion point about something they might actually have to deal with in the relationship once he chooses someone exactly um and i don't know why they're so resistant to that but anyways let's love his blood uh who are genevieve who are some of your favorites or least favorites um okay i love ad um she's my favorite i also she's great eight i love her she's my favorite. I also, she's great.

I love her. She's my favorite. She's from Boston too. But I just, I loved her energy. Least favorite. So I was like crying. Then I was mad and all these emotions over Matthew. At first I was like, this is weird.

It seemed like he was interviewing. He was like interviewing the ladies. And then if they asked him a question, he was like, oh, I wasn't expecting that. But that's what dating is. What a bar response. Like, it was just strange. But then I liked that he was opening up to only AD. It seemed like he just needed the right person to open up with. And I like that.

But then come to find out he's saying the same things to, I think, Amber. Yeah. Saying the same exact things to Amber. And so then I didn't like him again and i feel like i can't help but wonder because the obvious matthew doesn't seem dumb no right he's like a finance guy yeah so he seems like he has a level of intelligence and like self i don't know about self-awareness but like they all know they're i mean and matthew out of anyone brought up the fact that this is a television show and this is being recorded.

So like, I can't help but wonder if like the devil's in the details when it comes to him saying exactly the same thing, because I'm, you know, like everyone has their stick in their lines. And I, I could see someone not realizing they're saying what feels like exactly the same thing if you get two of the women comparing notes and he feels like he's being genuine with both of them but i mean that's the the show just like on the bachelor they're saying this is a space and i'm assuming that these are the conversations like the the prep that these contestants get before they go on the pods and i'm guessing it goes something like hey listen now is your time to

explore these relationships you're going to meet multiple people early on you might make multiple connections that's okay that's what it's all about eventually you have to pick but i feel like some people are open about it like jeremy and laura and um sarah and like they all kind of knew they were talking to different people. But then with Matthew, like he was saying, I would leave here with you today to A.D. And it's like, well, if he was. Yeah, that's very specific. Right. And then he's also told, I think, Amber that he would leave there.

He wanted to come find her, draw a map for her to find him or something. It was the promise. Right. Yeah. So it's like you're saying these words saying you want to leave with two different girls today at the same time but one in each arm could be off filming wise but it was also the dad thing like didn't he say the same thing the same thing he asked the father like asked if their father if he could call and he wouldn't be able to that's

actually the reason why i was making that point because it's pretty common for a guy yeah to say hey i would like to ask your father maybe not for permission it's 2024 but for their blessing their support you know it's not that uncommon to say hey you know if matthew's making connections with two different women to say to both those women hey just like upfront expectations it was more of like I would leave with you right now and like what if someone said yes then the other that's what I was thinking like what if 80 had said yes then the other girl oh well she's just like waiting on him to take her away and he well what I think is actually interesting it's kind of like with Clayton on on his season you know what did Clayton get really

big in trouble for? Clayton got in trouble on The Bachelor for, despite being The Bachelor, treating it as if it was only his love journey. You know, so it's like, I'm The Bachelor. I get to go to the fantasy suits with three different women. I get to have these feelings for multiple women.

And so regardless of each of these individual women going, you know, falling in love, I'm going to do me. And that he stepped in it because it ended up coming across as incredibly selfish and inconsiderate to the other women. Right. So like Matthew and like Jimmy, you know, they're all like, hey, man, like we're making multiple connections.

And then you have Jess's of the world being like, hey, I'm only making a connection with you. And Jimmy is using the excuse of, well, we're here to make multiple connections. It's like, fine, yeah, but this person's being upfront with you about you being the only one and you are not considering her feelings. You're saying your love story is more important than hers. And you are still going down. You are up until the day of the decision,

you are going back and forth. So yeah, it's even though the show says you can do this, you don't always get to do it. I really like Jess. And I feel like I like when it's just one, like someone's focused on just one person the whole time. And I feel like she was that way with Jimmy. But then at least Jimmy was open about him talking to multiple people. But I feel like he shouldn't have taken that long to string them both along.

But when you do that, it triggers someone's ego. Hey, just so you know, you're competing with someone else. And that's how people hear it. me it's justice for trevor because i was like that was one man who was like i am all in on you he was so sweet too so sweet dynamic was well but there's somebody else who has somebody else who might be choosing me as well but i think that goes to the ego of it all when you become an option you become competitive and then it becomes about winning not about finding love right like i am convinced uh that chelsea picked jimmy over trevor but think about it chelsea who knows what jess looks like right chelsea knows

she's competing against jess and even though one might think you know listen everyone's beautiful everyone's someone's type but like we all know that jess by all traditional beauty standards jess's might be the most attractive person to grace the love is blind show like love is blind like bachelor you know often cast again traditionally conventionally conventionally attractive people by most conventional beauty standards yeah um and love is blind to their credit has more of a variety of different types of people and it's love is blind so that that's part of the show and they really haven't cast someone as conventionally as attractive as jess maybe ever which is a really interesting dynamic. So then you would think that

Chelsea, you know, one might think that Chelsea is just like, oh, no, no, man, I'm going against this bombshell. Like, I'm going to bow out. But no, once she realizes she's competing against Jess and has a chance to beat someone like Jess, I think Chelsea is all about beating Jess and not about actually finding love. And I don't and i don't think again i don't think chelsea in real time even realizes what she's doing but subconsciously i think her ego is like i have a chance to beat this chick i don't think so because when after jimmy told chelsea that he loved her she went into the room of the women and didn't tell jess like she decided to just like walk away well she told laura and she told laura then laura was the one so laura kind of created

that competition if laura wasn't there it wouldn't have been well what did she can't that one scene where jess is standing by the side at the end of the episode and all the women are around chelsea and i think it's because when after trevor was like i'm in love with you and she felt sad because she was having stronger feelings for jimmy that's quite the performance by chelsea i just don't think it's like in opposition to jess i think she's a little she might be pulling because she was having stronger feelings for Jimmy. That was quite the performance by Chelsea. I just don't think it's like in opposition to Jess. I think she's a little, she might be pulling out the tears,

but it's not like because I want to be better than Jess. I don't know. I think maybe part of the reason that she told him that she looks like Megan Fox was because she knew that she was up against somebody who actually looks like Megan Fox. It's throwing a card out there, just knowing that it's like, you can take it or leave it, but just so you know. And, you know, I'm sure Chelsea is a wonderful person.

She's, you know, beautiful and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But like, you know, listen, my whole life, people have compared me to Ryan Reynolds. Even on my season of The Bachelor, I was referred to as Walmart Ryan Reynolds, which, by the way, I took as a compliment. That's lovely. That is a compliment. A spoiler alert. I met Ryan Reynolds at the PCS last year. Look,

nothing like him. I was, yeah. I don't see it. I don't see it. I don't, also recently the internet has tried to compare me to, uh,

what's his name? Um, on, uh, uh, white Lotus. Yeah. I don't see that.

And I, I'm, I'm, I'm reluctantly even saying this on the show now because i'm guessing i'm gonna get flamed in the comments but when you go on a show that's called love is blind that specifically says you're not supposed to even get into the looks department and you try to pretend that a you don't even know who megan fox is i'm jk's husband. Or maybe like a girlfriend. Are they married? Yeah. And then you suggest that you might in any way look like this person. You deserve to get some heat.

You deserve to get flamed in the comments. You know what you were doing. You know what you were doing. Maybe I'm a devil's advocate, but I can kind of see it. You know, it's funny. I kind of say that too. Sometimes my boyfriend was like, absolutely not. But I was like, it's like early.

It's in the eyes. It's like. And like the teeth with the mouth. See? Yes. But as I said. No, absolutely not. A lot of C students have been compared to A students for like, you know, getting a math

problem right. You know, so yeah, maybe it's in the eyes. We've all been compared to a celebrity, know in our groups of friends that doesn't mean we actually look like that celebrity and i feel like the whole point is you're just not supposed to talk about looks and then to say one of the hottest people like but ever you know that you don't look like a celebrity when it is the like but we have the same nose it's like okay or it could be just a really good friend gassing you up you know i look like people who i don't look like to make me feel better about myself all the time

yeah she's really she's really pretty too that's the thing she introduced this idea that didn't need to be there necessarily yeah but it made for an excellent excellent television because you know that jimmy the whole time once he heard Megan Fox, was locked the fuck in. It made his decision. It made his decision right then and there. And it's the downfall of their relationship. And I'm picking you. And I think also Jessica having Autumn, her daughter, I think that really threw him off.

Yes. And the Megan Fox comment. Because when he found out about Autumn, and then he found out about Chelsea's divorce, he's like, oh, man. Oh, what? I've heard worse today compared to what I heard earlier today. It's like, holy shit, man. Like, let's be a little bit more honest or less honest. He said, what a day.

What a day. You could see the life just go out of his face when she's like, I actually have some news. And he's like, oh, my God, here we go again. Yeah, he's waiting for another try. Was it Chelsea who poured herself that stiff drink? Yeah, she was just a little drink. And then it was information like that.

Like, talk about a beige flag, you know? Yeah, a little bit. Well, because, like, you know, we've all poured ourselves a stiff drink before. So the beige flag is the fact that is this stiff drink that you poured yourself? Is this like is this who you are? Or are we just, you know, because like that's information I want to know. How stiff is the drink you are pouring yourself? You're hearing it just like, blip, blip, blip, blip, blip, blip.

Holy shit. What's going on over there? It's a bucket. Yeah, because that is information I'd want to know. Do we think he hurt the poor from the other side? Or was that, like, cut out? I don't know. Also, I want to know if they are sharing,

you know when they're painting pictures? They should have, like, a little slot in the pods that allows them to, like, share gifts from one another. That'd also create more drama. Slide it under the wall. You know. Imagine if Jimmy, let's say jimmy like was surprisingly good at art and then let's say in one scene he paints this just beautiful picture

of this landscape and gives it to chelsea and then a day later he draws a couple stick figures for jess you know and imagine they go in to the the common room and chelsea is this like over the moon about this painting that jimmy painted her and meanwhile Chelsea is this like over the moon about this painting that Jimmy painted her. And meanwhile, Jess is like, what the fuck is this bullshit? I just think it would create a lot of drama. It definitely would create. I want to see them be able to give gifts and things like that. Also, like I kind of miss it.

This this bracelet thing that they were referring to that. What is that? And I miss a lot of people have this. Chelsea gave Trevor avor a bracelet they both wear and when one of them taps it the other can feel it oh right like lights up and that was specific to chelsea yeah that's not like a show thing no they were allowed to bring a gift i think for another person or they're supposed to bring something that meant something to them that they could give to the other person if they found their person did chelsea bring that yes i wonder why she decided to give it to trevor and not jimmy lots of tea i know i feel like they had that going back to maybe it was like more of a competition i don't

know but i feel like the connection with trevor and um chelsea was very genuine yeah i just thought there was something missing he said he was like had i proposed to you first do you think you would have said yes to me and then she was silent and that's when trevor was like not a good sign for him like how do you not know why is it so dependent on the order right i don't know if it is i think it i i i stand by i think she just wanted to beat megan fox also trevor and chelsea they seem like a physical match which Which also, by the way, I don't think love is blind. Trevor and Chelsea

or Jimmy and Chelsea? No, Trevor and Chelsea. I think Trevor and Chelsea. I think, well, I think, yeah. You're right. I think they're both kind of in each other's wheelhouse. Trevor and Chelsea

were the ones that had natural chemistry, what Genevieve was saying. Yes. For the record, I don't think love is blind, you know? No way. I think you're allowed to be,

I think you're allowed to be physically attracted to your partner. And I think you're allowed to like, not be physically attracted to someone and like their personality. I'm going to ask you something then. What did you think of when Clay said to AD, he wants to know what she looks like physically. And he likes a big butt and lips. And a small girl is what he said.

Petite girl. Yeah, I think he was honest. I think he was. I think he gave himself away as an obvious fuck boy. That's just not what you're supposed to do on this show. That's the whole point is to not do that. And then he asked that he needs to know. Right.

Like you came on the show because you were trying to get over that about yourself. And then you come on the show and you literally say it's a deal breaker to me if you don't look a certain way and then she was like do you uh and again love ad i think she a lot of personality she's a beautiful woman uh do you think that clay was disappointed with ad's physical appearance no i don't i don't think so i mean he introduced the idea of like going to the gym. So that was suspicious, but I think he was disappointed. You do? I do.

Overall, I think he, you know, I think he was able after the fact to point out qualities about her that he appreciated. He could have looked more excited.

You think about it. Clay is clearly a man who cares about physical appearance. And I'm not faulting him for that, but it is, he made that obvious

that he cares about that yeah imagine the pressure all these people are facing when they get engaged or married and then have to meet someone and that's one thing to be like in a bubble and be like all right fuck it and then be like holy shit i'm actually doing this clay's reaction to ad was chill he was calm if that man saw a person that he was like over the moon about you, he wouldn't have shut the fuck up about it. He wouldn't like, Oh my fucking gosh,

he's so fucking gorgeous. He would have been screaming it, but he was like subdued in his reaction. He was trying to gather himself. He was, he was trying not to like, he was like, okay,

yeah, yeah. All right. Yeah. It would have been so obvious how excited he was. And the fact, he was like, okay, yeah, yeah, all right. It would have been so obvious how excited he was. And the fact that it was like very chill. In the hot tub though, on their honeymoon, he was definitely looking excited. Seems like a very confident, sex positive woman who has good sexual chemistry.

And again, I think he was able to appreciate things about ad but i'm saying first reactions to ad i think clay was more like oh and then had and was maybe able to work himself back up the energy he had talking to ad like in the pods when they couldn't see each other remember when he was screaming like ad all day he was like going on on. And I feel like he didn't have that when they met. Exactly. Yeah. And like Clay, fuck boy, competitive,

you know, immediately he realizes he's not like, here's a guy who, you know, is used to getting attention. You know, another very conventionally handsome man,

Clay. Yeah. And then he's going, and then he realized he's up against Michael. Matthew. Matthew, you saw his reaction.

Sorry. No, no, but like of all, he's like, I've never lost to's up against Michael. Matthew. Matthew. You saw his reaction. Sorry. No, no. But like of all. He's like, I've never lost to a guy like this in my life. He cried. He cried over it. He cried. Literally.

I think he was more upset about who his competition was than that he had competition. I think so too. And then immediately his interest in AD skyrocketed. Yep. And then he apologized for saying the things about like the physical appearance. And it became about not losing to Matthew, more about falling in love with AD. I think they all like a competition. Yeah.

Truly. I think Kenneth, he's so sweet. I love that Kenneth stuck with Brittany and it was just like them two. Yeah. From the beginning. He's a principal and she's a teacher. A 25 year old principal. Yeah. That's impressive.

People are still in school at 25. Yeah. Like how do you become a 25 year old principal? Yeah. That's impressive. People are still in school at 25. Yeah. Like how do you become a 25 year old principal? Yeah. That's pretty cool. Right time and place. I don't know. He's,

their connection was so adorable to me. I think that was the most wholesome part of the show for me. At the beach, he brought like a chair over for her. She was like, he brought me my flip flops. Oh, talk about bare minimum.

Yeah. Like the rest. The other women were like, oh my God. Chelsea was absolutely, which is funny because I'm watching this and you can tell that right now, Kenneth and Brittany, like I think right now the connections, like, and again, I think first reactions to each other's looks, they're, they're both into it. They're like, okay, yeah, I can work with this.

And I think all the other guys are acclimating. I think Amy and Johnny like each other a lot. Yeah. This is a classic guy move. Yes, I agree. I'm sure you women experience this. Men usually don't have the guts to end a relationship. What men generally try to do is get women to break up with them.

So they'll just start. They'll stop being the boyfriend that they know their girlfriends want them to be in hopes that they will say, I deserve better than you. Yeah, you're probably right. And so the fact that you see all these men not, you know, doing something as basic as basic chivalry, you know, I think is a sign that these men are not sold and are deliberately not being the best type of boyfriends they can be. Jimmy. Jimmy on the beach. Jimmy on the beach. That girl is stacked. If my significant other

was pointing out physical attributes of another woman the first time meeting everyone, and then she tries so hard to be the cool girl and be like, oh yeah, no AD. And it's like, honey,

this is humiliating on a different level because the the level of disrespect that he's just shown you and then you're trying to like play along to make to advocate for him well then he left her to go talk to ad gave her a high five twirled her around reaction the way that she played along like i would have thought oh yeah she thinks this is funny like she should have just been like no you can't say that don't ever what are you doing he's trying to convince with uh chelsea in the in in their hotel room looks don't matter yeah it looks like if you have to keep saying it yeah he says it how many times how many times are you gonna say it bro like fuck man like shit like do i need to be concerned i'm like the reiteration from the

moment that they got together he was just like yeah just so you know like they're standing there when he's about to propose being like you know looks don't matter it's not they're not everything i i can work with that i lost it she also she also kept saying like do you like me do you like me like am i attractive so it was like they both were like just feeding that insecurity it all goes back to the fact that she told him that she looked like megan fox and then she comes out for her reveal she doesn't look like Megan Fox and he's like gonna look a certain he's gonna look at her a certain type of way because he's expecting something different all he's gonna see is not Megan Fox exactly and so then she set

herself up for failure and she's gonna always feel like well do you like me do you like me too how many she's asking him all the time do you like me do you love me do you it's what was what's your favorite thing or what's the first thing you noticed about me your teeth you have great teeth your teeth i died i absolutely lost it he's like no no and some people might see that as a criticism but i mean that as a compliment like like they're like square and big yeah square and big huh what what the like level of vague he could have been was just like gosh how pretty you were and it's over and it's or your eyes anything like the simplest eyes are the easiest one she has blue eyes her knees at that point and then he doubles down with big boobs and it was just like yeah oh honey leave jimmy's not my favorite i gotta say no not i mean he was set up for failure. No, he wasn't set up with...

No, I think that he could have treated Jessica a lot. He knew that he... Once Jessica told him about Autumn, I think he knew, and he dragged her along. Yes. You're right about that. He was very selfish. He only cared about his love story and not Jessica's.

And Jessica was very transparent about taking the pods, this, this experiment seriously and that she was fully committed to Jimmy. And he did, he selfishly led her on and didn't allow her to explore other relationships, even though she didn't want to. And that was a dick.

You're absolutely right about that. Hot take though. I think, uh, I think Jessimmy an apology for the ending for what she said the yuppie pin well no i mean that was that was because i i was applauding her i was like yeah i loved that i have to take you know but here's here's first of all to be to be clear that was one of the greatest moments of reality television certainly in the

love is blind franchise like she eviscerated him. When you see what I, like what you missed out on, you're going to choke. You're going to choke. You're going to need to bring out the, do we even know if he uses an EpiPen? I assume. Does he have allergies? I feel like,

I feel like that's something that was mentioned in the pod. They just didn't share. And then she was like a callback. Getting below the belt. Yeah, I'm allergic to bees. And I just forgot to mention that. But that, no, it was incredible. And that's why I think Jess owes Jimmy an apology or at least a thank you or one of the two. And I say this

because, again, love isn't fucking blind. And had Jimmy picked Jess, Jess would have been the one who would have been severely disappointed because it was clear that not only Jess, the other women thought Jimmy was a hottie. Yeah.ie yeah they're like oh it's not what i expected with his voice i don't know why they thought he was a hottie i think they thought he was like a good looking jock who traveled the country to visit all these stadiums but they thought he was a hottie and had jimmy picked jess j Jess would have, A, she would have lost out on that moment that will now live in reality TV history as an incredible moment. So,

she wouldn't have had that gift. And, he, Jimmy, saved Jess from being the superficial, shallow person that she most certainly would have had to become

because there is no way you don't know that you don't know that because love is blind to some people not to people like Jess you don't know Jess personally I am making an assumption and I am saying when you

are gifted certain qualities is love blind to you Genevieve? I think honestly I need to be like they don't need to be the most attractive person, but I need to have a physical, like, I need to be attracted to them. Does that make sense? Yes. Yeah. Like I need to be attracted to them. I don't think Jess would have been attracted in any way. And maybe, maybe not, maybe not. But maybe if she loved his personality, that could, that totally.

I don't know if any personality is that good. Nicholas. I don't know. I think I. Because everyone has a bad personality day. But Jimmy doesn't have a good personality. I'm sorry. He doesn't.

I agree. Let's assume that it was first rate personality. Like what we think of Trevor. We think Trevor is this golden retriever. Sweet, sweet boy. assume that it was first rate personality like like what we think of trevor we think trevor is this golden retriever sweet sweet boy and i'm here to tell you that if you put a camera on trevor long enough he's gonna demonstrate a nick he's gonna have a bad day he's gonna say something off-putting he's a human being and when that day comes and that person has to look at them they're gonna be like yeah, this is not that good.

You know, maybe after like 15 years of marriage and building an emotional connection and you share some amazing moments when the love when they always say like, oh, looks fade. Sure. But that's why the looks get you to the point where you're able to build a life with each other and a history and a rapport. But to be fair, if you're dating someone that's beautiful, that has an ugly personality, it's also not going to last very long. It's never going to last. You can sit there and be like, it's a trophy. Oh, I can bring her wherever. But if she treats you horribly, eventually push will come to shove.

Where I'm like the longevity of having somebody that makes you laugh, that understands you, that gets you on a personal level, that like if they got in a car accident and got maimed or something and like, you know, there would be a foundation there that was worth building off of versus it being like, oh, she's pretty. But once those fade, maybe I'll replace her because her personality sucks. You know what I mean? Like I'm like, I think the deeper connection, the whole point of the show is showing that you can fall in love with somebody for their personality. And we're essentially just watching like 2000 AOL chat rooms in person you know a lot of marriages in 2000s were chat rooms and I'm like so you're just watching people and then they go off on their own private thing and I'm like nobody's too out of bounds you know what I mean

it's not like beauty and the geek or something where you've got like a 10 and a 2. I mean, everybody's kind of in the realms outside of Jessica, maybe. I thought Sunny was really cute, too. But I think Sarah Ann's beautiful. Sarah Ann is beautiful. I think this season casted some, again, conventionally looks department beautiful women. And the men were kind of mid. But on the inverse, I do. I agree with that. I feel like it gave people like Jimmy

this like overexerted ego. That's like, oh, there's two women fighting over me. That probably wouldn't be happening in real life. Jimmy, this is the first time he's ever been the it guy. You know? So it's like, he's over here like, gosh, what are my options? And it's like, just be nice.

Just be nice. And then for him to react that way, I'm like, he should be left on the beach let's go around the room best personality of all the contestants men and women men and women best personality you get to pick one ad yeah ad ad ad for me she's like funny and charming and smart she is she's so smart i i just like the way that she calls it she calls her her reaction she's very quick to like when people like are saying shit that is either like a platitude or like it she she tracks it really well yeah uh before we move on to bachelor i do want to talk about one moment that just irked me and that was the moment where laura went up to jess and told

her she needed to leave yeah what and she's just like just trust me fuck you why not just tell her the reason yeah you're not being a fucking friend like we're not in fucking middle school jess is an adult woman who point blank said to laura no just tell me just tell me first of all laura you don't get to decide whether what jess can handle or not handle and you don't get to decide whether what jess can handle or not handle and you don't get to decide what moves just wants to make when she receives all the information which she doesn't have and you allegedly have and i don't care how long she's known you in this pods by the way the pods are 10 days yeah for those of you don't know like the whole pop process is only

10 days uh so they've known each other for less than 10 days. And Laura is expecting Jess, who said goodbye to her daughter for a period of time, who has this incredible opportunity to go on this TV show. And she is expecting to trust Laura and remove herself from a show because Laura's told her to. That's not being a friend. That being manipulative that said that showed so much about Laura as a as a human being and as a potential partner that she cares about being in control uh she cares about having power over relationship and like that's not being a fucking friend no I I feel like she should have asked first like I've heard some information that you may not know about that could be like hurtful. Do you want to know or do you want to find out on your own and then go from there and then tell her what you heard?

Just straight up. He said he loves her. Not I just trust me because you can't trust someone. Like you said, it's less than 10 days. Can't just trust someone to leave the whole process. So is she just going to like give up everything that she's built now just because Laura said you should leave? It's like, I need the facts. I need the information before I make a calculated decision about whether or not I leave this behind.

Yeah. Laura ended up with who? What's his name? Jeremy. What do we think of Jeremy? Spells his name really well. She called Jeremy a grassy boy. Like he looks like grassy mountain like or something.

What does that mean i just i'm not taking it as a compliment yeah she's not attracted to him that's another reveal that was like you don't you're not into it it was that and like him in the pool or whatever and like she was embarrassed yeah you know or it's just like oh she's regretting this decision but again he in the pods he came across as a guy who has a particular sense of humor. Right. But very direct. I feel like it knows what he wants. But again,

it was another competition. Another competition choice. That seems to be the trick on the show. You know? Well, also, what about that moment at the beach where Laura had told Jeremy to go up to A. to ad and do the bean dip yeah and like to to hit her boob or whatever that was fucking wild it's weird she's like it was a joke

i he but you also told him to go up to her and say and do that and absolutely loved how ad handled that it was a joke to you yeah and she kept saying no but it was a joke again fine fair enough and ad handled it so well she wasn't even chastising laura or anything she was just saying it was a joke to you but this person didn't receive it as such so stop just dismissing their feelings right and acknowledge that you know hey listen i'm i meant it's a joke i clearly you didn't take it that way i apologize if it came across the wrong way it's like literally all you gotta say literally it's not that hard it's not that hard and i loved how a ad was is so tactful and how her approach and she has such great communication but ad for all of her wonderful qualities at self-admittedly a bit of like she had no business picking clay whatsoever like he he demonstrated all the red flags in the pods

and she's a bit of a fuckboy magnet and she kind of she kind of acknowledged on her own she said that she likes to fix she likes like a project she can fix and make them better and i feel like yeah that's it no couples that so far uh I don't care about that I'm willing to have my opinion change. Johnny and Amy. No. I just like them in their suite because it was just them from the beginning. That's the only reason. Which one is that?

Yeah. No, I'm not really a fan. I'm just not. I'm like, it's very much like we're morphing into the same person. I'm like, cool. Great. And maybe it's because it's the no drama or whatever. I don't find him appealing whatsoever.

So far, they're the couple that actually gets married that we don't care about. Who was the couple a few seasons ago? Lovely couple. I think they're still married. I still think they're together. It was on the Micah and Marshall season, I believe. Tiffany and Brett?

Yes. Yeah. Lovely couple. micah marshall season i believe tiffany and brett yes yeah lovely couple high they seem like both high quality people we couldn't give two fucks about them and so far we forgot who they were yeah it took us a half hour it took us a half hour to find them on google that's how much we don't care about them and i lovely people but we're so glad you're happy so so glad they're happy but like that's that's their trajectory Amy and Johnny

are on but well another next batch comes out this Wednesday tomorrow so we'll be I think we only get

two episodes this time good as opposed to six why are they releasing it this way why did they do that I don't know I don't know

but we're full on love is blood until until the finale and then we'll we'll fall on love is blood until until the finale. And then we'll we'll we'll have a couple of them on the show following the reunion. I really hope that Brittany and Kenneth make it. But I don't think they will. I know I saw the teaser.

They saw some cracks in the armor. I don't know. Oh, no. All right, Bachelor. I think there's only one big topic to get into. And that is Joey's 10 year plan for children yeah it's like no totally it's like again

2024 totally how old is Joey it's a good question how old is Joey thought he was 28 I might be slightly exaggerating on the 10 year plan it's not it's more like a six year plan yeah he did say he was like yeah six years because he was like i must be

engaged for two to three years three year engagement and then i want a few years i want to have another couple years before we start to have kids and then i think he said a few months so at least six at least six you're gonna have a six-year plan which totally normal in today's dating standards but like should they a is that something for, you know, you have all these women, you know, every, before they even get a date being like, let me tell you the most serious shit about me. And then Joey, like not even telling all of them, you know, it's only Lexi who specifically is like, Hey, listen, I got a timeline. I already have potential complications when it comes to conceiving, you know, women women We know they have to deal with a biological clock and you know, they're in the 30s and doctors are like you're a geriatric

You know, it's a crazy shit that women have to consider when conceiving And so she is up front about this with joey And the only other person who knows about is maria because like lexi and maria are friends And this is information that joey seemingly hasn't shared with the rest of the group of women. I think that's something so important. And again, it's totally fine that that's what he wants. I feel like that's common.

But I think that's something that should have been told like to the women in the beginning, like not just to the group, but like individually. That's, I think, something that should be mentioned. Yeah, because I mean, you know, two or three year engagement in bachelor world is totally normal, right? Because whoever Joey ends up with doesn't know them at all. Yep. So that makes sense. Joey has a very youthful timeline when it comes to kids, you know, it's always like, I want to enjoy them. You know, it's just like, and I'm hell, I just had my first child and I'm much older than Joey. Like I, I'm not criticizing his timeline. I'm criticizing his communication about his timeline to a group of women,

many of which have a very different timeline. And again, talking about like the comparison between love is blind and bachelor, probably not even totally Joey's fault. Where, where is he supposed to fit this in? That's a good point. You know,

if anybody doesn't agree with my timeline, now is the time to leave. 10 girls get up. Hi, I'm Joey. This is my point. You know, that is anybody doesn't agree with my timeline. Now is the time to leave. 10 girls get up. Hi, I'm Joey. This is my timeline, you know, and his biggest fear is getting up there and the woman not wanting him back.

So I'm also kind of like, are you shooting yourself in the foot by not sharing that? Because as you saw somebody that you thought was going to be your top contender left. What do we know about Joey as the person and partner? He plays tennis. He plays tennis. We know more about him from charity season

than this season. He's got great hair. He's got great hair. He's handsome. It's great hair but poorly styled. I still think it has an Oompa Loompa hairstyle

and he's so good looking that he pulls it off. Look at an Oompa Loompa and how they part their hair and look at Joey. I know. It's the same hairstyle. You're kind of right, honestly.

And again, he's so good looking, he pulls it off. But it's amazing hair is not properly styled. How serious do you think Joey was about his timeline, though? He did say with Lexi that it would have been something if they would have talked about it that probably could have been worked out. I also again, like I agree that his timeline isn't absurd by any means. You're going on a show dating 20 women. You can only give so much of yourself. So have the first two years. I don't think you know anybody in the first year of dating somebody, let alone you're learning things and what you can accept in two years. So I'm like two to three years to wait to get married. Great. But I'm like, yes, if somebody has complications or their wants, that should be something that's discussed. Are kids an absolute deal breaker right after marriage or is that something that we can work on together? You know, so he kind of shot himself in the foot by not sharing that and giving somebody who he wanted to stay essentially an ultimatum in her mind if that's what he is so worried about

like someone saying they can't they're leaving i think that it is even more of a reason for him to want to tell the woman that this is his timeline make sure that the woman also like that is their timeline or they're okay with compromising right it set them both up for failure because then they were both sad in the end so it was like exactly yeah yeah uh but yeah what do we what else do we we don't really know anything about joey the partner like how it like in for all the love that we are giving joey and joey you know could argue has in some ways saved the bachelor franchise seems like a good lesson lesson learned like stop like just cast a bunch of simple hotties or at least present themselves as simple again and then all this talk

about joey like oh i'm afraid that i'm afraid i'm not going to be accepted i'm afraid i'm not going to be accepted what are what are the things that you're afraid won't be accepted yeah they should we have no fucking clue they should do like a challenge or something where they have like the girls typically like or what are you afraid of or like what are you looking for i'm like why don't we have one that's talking about fears or you know past relationships whatever it is because clearly you have stuff that you're holding on to but he's getting such a golden boy edit that we're like what do you mean you're complicated in relationships what do you mean because he's the only one saying self-deprecating things about himself everybody rants and raves about this man easily come up with a couple date

ideas that like put the bachelor or the joey on the spot to really dive into some like situational types of questions right and genevieve had a good point like he's a good listener but he's not really talking much yeah like he's just responding to what the women say but also yeah he doesn't have the opportunity to speak and no one's asking him questions every single woman this season has been like i need to tell him about my trauma that's true that is so true it's like i love this candle at dinner, but by the way, my father at three

and it's just like, oh, well, here we go. Yeah, why hasn't anybody asked him about his timeline yet? We have six people left and none of them asked. None of them want to know a thing about him.

None of them care. They're like, just shut up and pick me. Just wipe my tear off my face and let me vent. No, it's, I think that's, that's something that i think the franchise just

needs to evolve on you know and but prop to joey for finally sending someone home that wasn't on i was watching that episode and i'm like if you fucking don't send jess home right now i know joey then what you suck is like you can tell the way he responds to the women like who he has a connection with like the way he was responding to just explaining her feelings it just wasn't not just being like i don't understand why he doesn't like you i was i might i might have been alone here but i was a little i was shocked by it that you got sent home yeah like i i kind of went like because i feel like in the beginning or at least that there was like this like strong connection. She was getting roses and like.

She was getting roses. Before they talked, she's like, well, I know we haven't had a date yet, but I'm falling in love with you. It never goes well when you say shit like that. That's the kiss of death. She was the first kiss too, so I can see what you're saying. I thought she was like a favorite in the same way that he has relationships with like Maria and some of the other women. And she got a one on one. But like a lot of the times he's like I feel so good about us that

I don't need to focus on it and so that's kind of where I thought Jess was still kind of laying in so when he was like nope it's time for you to go home my jaw was like oh he was also fake sad about Lexi going home you think so yeah I thought Lexi was a top contender but as Joey's pointed out when sending Jess home it's really hard to break up with someone like that and just not give him a rose. And so, and that's why Joey's just not doing that. And Lexi sent herself home and he's just all, he's like, all I gotta do is just say nice things, be nice. But he didn't fight for her. You have two or three people you like. And if one of those goes home and keep in mind, Joey, all we're hearing this past episode is like, I don't, I'm afraid of people not accepting me.

Was that a reaction of a man who felt like he got rejected? No, that was a reaction of a man who was like, oh, you broke up with me. So I didn't have to break up with you. Thank you. I'm just going to be nice. That was the classic guy breakup. I mean, to that point, he almost walks every woman when they leave. He walks them down to the car.

But Lexi just walked out by herself. Yeah. He's like, all right, see yourself out. All right. Good luck on the whole kid thing. I didn't really pick up on that but now that you're saying it maybe not. Maybe he didn't really. That's okay.

That's okay. I do this every week. Do you think she could be the next bachelorette? Oh for sure Lexi could definitely be a bachelorette. Yeah. I still think it's either gonna be Kelsey or Daisy. Which Kelsey? Kelsey A. The one from New new orleans okay i love her i think she's really sweet and genuine i think when she like it just seems like genuine when

they're together like the way she's very affectionate with him yeah and i don't know we're getting to that part of the season where he has enough of connections on these group dates where it starts getting really fucking weird. Yeah. You can see that with Kelsey reacting that way. All right. I think that about wraps it up. Genevieve, thanks for coming.

Thanks for having me, Nick. Yeah. You'll have to come back again. It's fun. Sierra, as always. Always a pleasure. Always a pleasure. That about does it for us.

Thanks for listening. Don't forget to send us questions at AskNickAtTheVowFiles.com. For all things texting office hours. Ask Nick, you know the drill. And on Thursday, we are back with Natalie Joy, my fiance, mother of my child. And we'll be talking about our birth story, if you care. It'll be super emotional and fun and meaningful. And I hope you guys do care and tune in and listen in. And then next week, going deeper, Rally TV royalty Candy Burris joins us for her Bravo exit interview. Why she left, all the tea.

It was a great conversation with Candy. I loved having it and I can't wait for you guys to check it out. I don't know. I think that's it. Bye. you