The Viall Files - E713 RR - Love is Blind’s Jessica Vestal, RHOBH, VPR, Bachelor, and Traitors with Tara Schuster

Episode Date: February 27, 2024

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Reality Recap Edition! Today, we are joined by Tara Schuster and Ciara Robinson to chat about all things reality television. First, we talk to Jessica Vestal about her time on Love is Blind Season 6. Then, we talk about Vanderpump Rules and Tom Sandoval’s dark thoughts (Trigger Warning). We also get to ask Tara about being on Watch What Happens Live with Rachel Leviss and Scheana Shay the night Scandoval broke. Next, we talk about Real Housewives of Beverly Hills and what we thought of the finale. Then, we tackle Episode 9 of Traitors. Finally, we talk about the Bachelor and how we finally saw a different side to Joey.  “They act like they can convince themselves that they’re in love.”  Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes. To Order Nick’s Book Go To: http://www.viallfiles.com  If you would like to get some texting advice send an email to [e-mail] with “Texting Office Hours” in the subject line! To advertise on the show, contact [e-mail] or visit https://www.advertisecast.com/TheViallFiles  THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Papaya - If you want to stop buying jumbo packs of paper towels, go to https://www.PapayaReusables.com and use code VIALL for 30% off sitewide. Peloton - Wherever you’re starting, get moving with a Peloton Bike or Bike+ rental at https://www.onepeloton.com/bike/rentals Terms apply. Sundays For Dogs - Get 40% off your first order of Sundays. Go to https://www.sundaysfordogs.com/VIALL or use code VIALL at checkout. Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @jess.ves @taraschuster @ciaracrobinson @alison.vandam @justinkaphillips @leahgsilberstein @dereklanerussell Timestamps 00:00 - Intro 11:00 - Jessica Vestal Interview 33:23 - Welcome Tara 38:29 - LIB Recap 01:22:59 - Vanderpump Rules (TW) 01:46:14 - RHOBH 02:08:42 - Traitors 02:13:45 - Bachelor 02:39:21 - Outro  

what's going on everybody welcome back to another exciting episode of the vile files reality recap edition i'm your host nick and we got the household here we got leah we got justin we have sierra robinson returning to the show hi uh it's a bit of uh well it's sunday morning actually we are recording this section of reality recap sunday morning because we have a special guest jess from love is blind is going to be rolling up Sunday morning. She is in town filming something. I don't even know if we're able to say, but she is in town. And so we were like, well, let's get her to the studio. And the only way to make it work is to have some of the team come in Sunday morning.

So here we are. Oh, okay. She's six minutes out. She's late, by the way. I don't know if we're going to have the whole Tom Sandoval discussion, but she was supposed to be here 17 minutes ago. I don't want to cast any judgments or aspersions on the person who one might have wondered if she was the more high maintenance of the group, but she is late. But we're not going to interrogate her like we did Tom Sandoval,

because we're just short of time. Tara Schuster will also be joining us this episode, returning to the Vile Files. Should we let people know why Sierra has been showing up? I think we should. Yeah. Well, Sierra, for those I think I mentioned this on Ask Nick yesterday, but Sierra is a friend of mine and Natalie's. We met her through Sarah and Wells. And then every time we would get together me Natalie and Sierra mostly me and Sierra would just talk about reality TV and Bravo yep so I was like you need to come on the show more often and especially with Natalie giving birth to our lovely daughter River Sierra has been kind enough to I don't want to say fill in because she's not necessarily

replacing or filling in you have good it's been nice to have her people have enjoyed her company and uh we've enjoyed having sierra here so sierra welcome again thanks for having the vile files uh so we have uh we're gonna kick things off as love is blind obviously because jess is gonna roll in here uh we have a lot to get into we'll get into traders we'll get into Traitors. We'll get into Bachelor. I think we got the Housewives of Bev Hills reunion happened. Finale. Finale, rather, not the reunion. We got a three-part reunion coming up.

I haven't started watching Summer House. I know Sierra has. Obsessed. Obsessed. Because we will be dabbling on that season. I don't know if we're going to be recapping every episode. We will be paying attention to what goes down in Summer House this season. I don't know if we're going to be recapping every episode, but we will be paying attention to what goes down in the summer house this season. Because we did have, we had the pleasure of interviewing Lindsay prior to the season coming out. Lindsay Hubbard from

summer house. She was very gracious, very generous. She spilled some tea about her breakup with Carl. And I think now the big question is not that I'm doubting Lindsay at all, but, you know, we heard her POV. Now it's time to see, you know, well, Bravo's POV. I don't know if we'll have a chance to hear Carl's POV on the show. We'll see. But does it add up? It's looking good. It's looking good. I'm like, now we're going to see it play out in real time and hear a little bit more on Carl's perspective. But it doesn't seem to me that she was as blindsided as I think we're as blind as we as we want to be I was gonna say because she was like it came out of nowhere but now we get to see it

get to that moment even last season there was like little notes of just like there there could be a little trouble in paradise that I'm like seeing it come to fruition I'm like okay give me the details welcome to paradise yeah so yeah that's a lot to get into so and Vanderpump and Vanderpump so we uh obviously we'll get into vanderpump it's gotten a little juicier it has this episode was a bit juicier than the first few yeah i cried you cried i haven't watched it yet oh it's homework tonight the end of the episode with james i i got teary-eyed i'm not gonna lie did you really interesting with lala uh no with the return of Graham Cracker Hippie

spoiler you know I live I live right next to Vanderpump Dogs and I've I'm just like how have I never seen anyone there's always some drama

happening at Vanderpump Dogs is that like a dog it's a rescue it's a rescue no no they also do grooming grooming

they I've bought stuff from there before oh yeah I bought dog toys. You never saw Lisa? No. Every time I go in, I hope to see her and then I spend money and I haven't

seen her. Eventually, maybe. Maybe one day. Lisa keeps saying she's going to come in and do this show. Pulling up in two minutes, Jess. Why don't you go down and let Jess in and we'll start the Love Is Blind conversation and we'll roll in with Jess. All right.

Well, uh, this batch of episodes, quick things, things that have gotten really messy when it comes to love is blind. There's been a lot of also like scandals, alleged girlfriends, relationships,

alleged, and, um, the boys are, the boys are messy, messy. The boys are messy. So while they're out of the pods uh obviously we'll get to talk

with jess a little bit about her experience in the pods with uh with jimmy but we have uh we got jimmy and chelsea jimmy megan fox rather yikes jimmy mcafree and megan fox and then we have kenneth and britney britney ad and clay ad and clay and we have Kenneth and Brittany. A.D. and Clay. A.D. and Clay. And we have Amy and Johnny who are getting married. No questions asked. The birth control conversation is bizarre.

Like, I want to know his background because why does he seem so misinformed when it comes to birth control? I think their thing is that they both grew up you know without a lot of money and so they're worried especially johnny no i hear it i didn't grow up with a lot of money and i understand like i understand being responsible safe sex not having kids before you're ready have they even talked about condoms yeah he's misinformed like also he's acting like birth control is some sort of like fort knox listen if you miss if you miss uh not that i not that i'm an expert you miss a day or two you miss a day or two like things might slip in there i learned this back in the eighth grade sex ed they and they told me the

only way the only sure way not to get pregnant is to abstain from sex a thousand percent you know there's no there's no guarantee and that was your psa of the day yeah but i i you know but that being said if you read the directions and you appropriately apply a condom and then for extra measure just pull out before old faithful shoots off you know and and says, happy day. You're pretty good. Yeah. You know. What is it, 99.7% effective? 97?

I don't know. I mean. I just love that the alter. TMI. I've been just, I don't, I didn't, I haven't even bothered with, you know, in relationships. With birth control? In relationships, you know, the pullout was really just kind of worked for us. And I will say birth control is incredibly controversial right now because a lot of women are going off of it.

Because of the effects. It affects your hormones. I went off of it. It really messed me up. Natalie never went on birth control because of the hormonal aspect of what it can do to her body. I was on it for over 10 years and it really messed up my system my last three years i cried every day so yeah it's just as you know so i think it's valid that a vasectomy is in on the table if he is requiring amy to get on birth control but like

yeah just you know what like i know again no sure thing but again if i if you wear a condom put it on appropriately and and just don't get greedy don't get greedy you know as a guy just when you get really just pull out you know yeah maybe they cut it out of the conversation but i feel like they've not even have they brought up the condom conversation they're not sleeping together as far as i like i feel like they've made that clear is that they have not yet engaged in anything so what is his fear with the condoms is what I'm what I'm confused about as well like do you think it's just gonna slip off is it a fear or is it that he just doesn't want to I don't know he just seems misinformed he just seems like no one really sat him down and talked to him like he skipped sex ed safe sex i do like that he's not putting

the full responsibility on amy though he said you know i know that there are many options for men birth control wise so i like that he's not just demanding she go on birth control and i mean we'll see how it plays out but i like that he's offering suggestions that he could do as a man. He does seem like a nice, respectful guy, just a little ignorant when it comes to sex education. I'm honestly wondering if he was, did he grow up in some sort of hardcore church organization? He just seems a little bit detached from... Like spoiled.

Because he did say that past exes have always been on birth control. So I think he just assumed that when we hit a have always been on birth control so i think he just assumed that like when we hit a certain age we all just jump on the pill he just assumed everyone's like oh you're on birth control then he's just like good to go swinging it around like no big deal but like again not not fully effective not fully effective yeah and not that i i'm not implying that anyone would be dishonest about their birth control. But like, yeah, I mean, there are messy people out there. There are sloppy people.

There are forgetful people. Let's say Jeremy had to take birth control. Would you trust Jeremy? Nope. Shut up how you're pronouncing his name. Yeah, Jeremy. Jeremy. Jermay.

Jeremy. He literally spells it with every letter, too. It's Jermay. How do you say it? How do you say iteremy well jeremy is how i think jeremy he does spell it crazy but i don't know jeremy jeremy like would you if if if there was a birth control for men and maybe there is i don't know yeah there is a pill and let's say it required you to be diligent and responsible and jimmy was, yeah, no, I'm on birth control. Would you trust that? No.

I wouldn't. Not at all. If you had asked me two episodes ago, I would have said, yeah. And he's just acting like, well, once someone says I'm on birth control, he can just like has as much sex as possible. But if not, then he can't even touch her. Yep. How old is this guy?

And as a former software sales executive, I want to know, why is everyone, all the guys sell software? Every single one, it seems like. Do they? All the ones who got married. It's got to be a big industry. Well, like Clay is tech sales.

And then the, and Jeremy is software sales. They're all salesmen. They're all software. It's all, it's just different names for software sales. Is that like a booming business in Charlotte? I don't know. I don't know. I mean, it's just different names for software sales. Is that like a booming business in Charlotte? I don't know. I don't know. I mean, it's a good business to be in.

It's a good, you know. Work remote. And I don't know what Jeremy does, but he seems to be doing one. Barry's bodies. All right, bring her in. Jess is here. Come on in. Hello.

Hi. Let's go. You're late. Let's go. You're late. Let's go. We don't have time. We don't have time for pleasantries and intros, Jess. Okay. Let's get into this then.

Hi. All right. Wear this. Jess, it's so nice to meet you. Hi. It's so nice to meet you. So nice to meet you. Oh, my goodness.

All right. Get those headphones on. I put these on? Yes. Get in there. We were just talking about your castmates in Birth Control. Okay. Clearly, I don't know anything about that.

No, I'm just kidding. I'm kidding. Oh, she's a comedian. I keep forgetting his name. Blonde hair, Birth Control guy. Johnny. Johnny. Very misinformed.

Did any of the ladies talk to him about his fear of condoms or his miseducation when it comes? He acts like birth control is the end all be all. I didn't talk to him after the first day in the pods, but I'll say this. And Johnny, we trust. We Johnny, we trust. And Johnny, we trust. Johnny's a good one. He's the best one. So despite his lack of education when it comes to safe sex and birth control, he is a stand up guy. He is. We're going to stick beside him anyway. Okay. All right. Well, welcome. We're glad to have you. Glad you can finally make it. We won't, we had another guest late a couple of weeks ago and really went viral. We won't, we won't give you such a hard time, but you made it. We're glad. I'm here. I made it. I'll make up for it. You had a really epic moment in the pods. I guess you could say that. It was great. Yeah.

So let's go back to the pods, if you will, for our sake. What was it about Jimmy in the pods that made you go, this is my man? I'm so glad you're asking me that. No one has asked me that. And it just kind of looks like I'm falling in love with nothing. Like he was giving me breadcrumbs. But our connection was so strong. He was so funny. Like that's like one of the most important like traits to me and a man is

that he has a good sense of humor. So was it a good sense of humor or he was funny because I don't, have we seen a Jimmy joke? They didn't show a lot of it. They just showed more of our like serious moments, the hot wing date, the like small clip of it that you did see that was like the closest to it that i can say okay um but like we just vibed really well it was really easy from like day one and i i can i can be pretty serious i can have a very serious tone about me but there

was something about him that was like so disarming okay like we just had fun we had so much fun on all our dates and i just i want. I want someone who kind of like brings the fun. And how did you get on the show? Oh my gosh. So they had been casting in Charlotte for a couple months and I'd heard about it. Everyone heard about it. And I had been getting messages on Instagram and stuff about it. But I thought, I was like, you know what? I've never seen anyone on the show that had a child. So I just kind of looked right over it. I was like, they probably wouldn't cast someone who had a child anyway. So one night, it was like late in November of last year.

I was like poking around online and I found the application link. And I was like, well, let me just look at it and see, like, see what it's about. And I saw on there they had questions like, do you have a child? Would you be interested in dating people who have children? And I was like, okay. You just lied. You just. I was like, maybe they do.

So I just filled it out on a whim thinking I would never hear anything back from it. And then the next morning they called me. The next morning you got a call. Have they ever cast parents before? They had. They had. This is the first. First.

You're the first parent. That was shown. Yeah. Wow. Pioneering. You're pioneering. I hope so. And do you feel like as a representative of single parents out there,

do you recommend future single parents look for Love and Love is Blind? Absolutely, I do. Okay. I would say it's not for the weak. Okay. It's not. And I know it wouldn't work for any parent. I know like with a newborn or like a toddler, which the way congratulations oh thank you very much it probably wouldn't work for them um just because like the

time away is really hard but autumn my daughter she's 10 she's almost 11 so she's very independent and it it worked well for me and my dynamic that i have with her dad so if if it works for you and you have the support going into it absolutely for sure okay so much of this obviously show we love this show it's love is blind you people don't get to see what the castmates look like a lot has been made of your moment with jimmy your thought of by many is to be i guess conventionally attractive you seem to be aware of that just by the whole epi pen you know you're gonna choke it was awesome thank you guys we love we love a self-aware queen and i am and i'm a confident queen however when i said that it had very little to do with appearance i meant that in the sense of like i

know how much i have to offer my husband and my partner. I do. I love myself. You did say when you see... I said when you see what you missed out on. Don't get me wrong. If the shoe fits and people want to make it about me... You're a humble queen. We all appreciated

that. I guess my big question... It was off-putting to some people. Listen, it's a very popular show. You're going to have some critics. You're doing very well. The rest of your peers have more critics. If you're not pissing off someone, you're doing something wrong. You did a great job.

I'm trying to adopt that mindset. Work on that because it'll serve you well. It's true. It'll serve you well. That being said, you clearly went into the pods with the best of intentions and really tried to take the experiment for what it was and very seriously. And you clearly had no conversations about looks. You didn't ask him questions about looks.

You didn't get into questions about yourself regarding looks. Watching it back, when did you become aware that you were competing with Megan Fox? And did it piss you off that that conversation came up, given that you were so invested in Jimmy and you clearly were invested in the process? You put all your chips in on Jimmy and then all of a sudden Megan Fox showed up. And I'm just wondering, when did you find out about that? And how did you feel about that? Chelsea and I were very good friends throughout the entire process.

And we never saw each other as competition. We really didn't. And so watching it back and seeing her say that, I personally did not see it in a way that she was using that as leverage at all. And naturally, and a lot of people don't see, is sometimes you do have conversations about appearance. I mean, naturally, when you're thinking about marrying someone, even though that's not what it's about you do kind of want to know okay sure yeah um so even yourself did even though because we know a lot of it's not shown did were there any moments with any people where it it came up where at least some conversations around looks happened that maybe we didn't get to see even on even on your end i think that i naturally come off as very confident i think someone someone or two may

have asked me if i was attractive and i probably said something along the lines of i don't know it depends on who you ask okay um but there's some people you could talk to and kind of assume like like clay clay you know i think when he and i were on a couple dates appearance may have come up but not got swag you can hear it yeah yeah yeah and clay's also very confident and he i think maybe even said once now i know i'm attractive oh he said oh he's like spoiler not it's like a selling point though just another just confident moment like i know who i am and i like me how did jimmy describe himself like what was how did you see his confidence level in the pods? OK, we have to talk about this.

Because it seemed like all the women thought he was some big swinging dick. We were in shambles over Jimmy. Jimmy was almost every person's top pick first. What was it? Because I don't. Jimmy. He seems and I've grown to really enjoy Jimmy on the show. Okay, relax.

No, no one has like given me a hard time about the fact I was calling him Jimmy with the juice. And no one's wanted to know. Like, why were you asking him that? Because I thought he had the juice. He just had that like swag about him. He Jimmy had game. He had game, which would I don't think would have worked in the real world. But in the pods behind the wall, he had all of us just completely folded.

Like before we would go on our dates with Jimmy, we'd all be so giddy. And also his voice. If you close your eyes and listen to him talk, you know, he's got that like deep voice that you just kind of like want to listen to. Well, you all said that. They all said that you visualized him as this like hunk because of like his voice and like what were you what were you imagining like what were you seeing i was imagining like so you have to close my eyes and think about it because i i know him now um i was just imagining this big tall just like a bearded like man like i don't know he's not who was funny how tall is he i don't maybe

six foot maybe what were your thoughts when you saw a picture of him again like before you go into the show most of us had already given up like you know the expectation of what anybody would look like so i didn't have an idea i was so attracted to like the guy i knew on the other side of the wall but when i saw what he looked like, I was like, OK, that wasn't what I was expecting. Did you find him attractive? Appearance wise, like he's not what I would typically go for. So this scene with you and Laura talking at the bar, was that still like you're going off of your idea of him? You hadn't seen what he looked like yet.

Right. idea of him you hadn't seen what he looked like yet right well also let's be mindful of the fact that like i had had copious amounts of wine okay because you're feeling a little you're looking a little sassy i was the wine had me feeling way too sexy to be talking to anybody i had no business well it's interesting because uh jeremy and sarah uh had that late night rendezvous. And I know we, there's maybe more of the story that we'll get into the next week. But from your point of view, I think a lot of people are wondering,

you know, cause shit past seasons, people have like, what, who's the couple that switched up after the pods and now married and had kids. Zach and bliss. Thank you.

Zach and bliss. So huge fan. When you left the pods, what part of you was like, all right, well, he's in my hometown. I know we're gonna all get together. See, and that's the thing, that the wine night I had with Laura,

it didn't really accurately depict what I was feeling. I was going through the stages of a breakup where I was kind of still thinking about what could have been, but I thinking about like what could have been, but I didn't want what could have been. I knew when I left the pods, he and I both felt a mutual understanding. It would have never worked because we could have fun. We could cut up, we could like do all the surface level things. But when it came down to like the in-depth moments where we needed to communicate and like work through things, we couldn't. And how did you figure that out? Like how much time did you

guys talk to figure because you talked a lot in the pods and in the pods without any physical like measurables you guys were like hey you're my person i love you like how did you go from that to figuring out despite looks you weren't compatible When it came down to like conflict resolution and like I came to a point where I realized I had given him so much, like, you know, I shared so much about my childhood and my past and previous relationships and my expectations. Like I was giving him all the answers to the test. Like this is what I want and need from a partner. And he had shared a lot with me about his personal life and his childhood as well, which is kind of what we bonded over. But when he read my letter,

that was kind of like the tipping point. Cause I thought that was going to be the moment that he kind of met me where I was not particularly like choosing me, but just saying, you know, expressing his feelings of some kind, even if it wasn't going to be, and he couldn't.

And so I didn't take that well. And, you know, you can see us kind of like going back and forth and then he just froze yeah and then was his reaction to you being a mom as as awkward in real time as it seemed to be on television oh my goodness a little bit just because i actually had shared that information with every other guy that I had dated. Jimmy was the last person I shared it with. But that was only because the conversation had kind of prompted itself with everybody else.

Like, you know, like, what are you most proud of? That's an easy one for me. It's my daughter. Or do you like children? Do you want to have children? Those conversations came up so much sooner with everyone else and with Jimmy. And it wasn't like days into the pods. I think that might have been like day two or three. And it was the day that we were all

talking about like intimacy, you know? And I was like, this is a conversation I want to have with my partner, but I can't with you here because my daughter will see this. And that's not something I want her to see. And he was like, why didn't you tell me sooner? And it wasn't particularly awkward. Remember, I couldn't see him. I could only hear him. i couldn't see him i could only hear him i couldn't see his facial expressions or his body language but watching it back i was like oh he was off by that he was taken back for sure and then hearing him describe like talking to chelsea where you know she's like i've been divorced he's like yeah well fuck man that's he was like compared to what i had to hear before i heard bigger news today today. I was like, oh my God.

And I'm like, you know, listen, being a parent is a big responsibility. Sure. But like someone getting divorced also like depending on the divorce, there might be more red flags. And it just so happens. A kid in itself isn't a red flag. It's just a responsibility. A divorce, who knows what they're bringing in, you know, to the relationship. Right.

And I mean, if he hadn't received it in, you know, to the relationship. Right. And I mean, if he hadn't received it well, I wouldn't have taken offense to that. I don't think that, you know, that's something I should just expect someone to be okay with. I would have respected it. But the thing you don't see is we had so many conversations with her after the fact. We had talked about like vacations we wanted to go on with her and like what our dynamic would be like. So you felt like he warmed up to the idea of being. Oh, yes. And he told me he was like, that's not a deal breaker i don't mind and he we talked about her so much like he didn't do anything that led me to believe he wasn't okay with it okay

all right i really just have one like kenneth is a big discussion point on this batch of episodes with his breakup sure did you get to know kenneth a little bit yeah okay so my question to you is uh is kenneth one like i think people when they watch the show fail to appreciate the intensity of the experiment that you guys all participate in and the decompression that comes both even after the pods and then after well you will only experience the pods but um and then going going to the like the honeymoon or whatever they call it to living in the city is Kenneth just kind of introverted guy who maybe handled the decompression of the experiment poorly and maybe just not the best communicator. Or is he just kind of an asshole

that a lot of people think he is with how the breakup was or is even more nefarious than that. So what was your read on Kenneth? No, no, no. It couldn't be more opposite. Kenneth is like one of the most pure, like amazing human beings. And like all of us were lucky to know him. Some of us, when we were dating him, we're like, I would be afraid to marry him because he's so good of a human. I wouldn't want to do anything that would ever disappoint him. Like he's such a good man. And we all hated seeing how their breakup was shown because they had hours of filming already that day. Or I know that they had discussions off camera about how they were moving towards more of a friendship than like life partners. And they had already come to that decision,

I think before it was filmed. So he was just kind of over it. And then that's what was shown was he was just like, we've already had this conversation. I don't really want to talk about it anymore. But they had to, for the sake of telling the story,

they had to film it. And he was just like, whatever. Do you think the conversation he had with AD had anything to do with it? I don't know. I don't think so um because you can kind of see the chemistry with uh ken and britney kind of like fizzled out after they met i think it had more to do with just like the physical attraction between them wasn't there but what

did you make of the time where britney was like hey i need more affection and then kenneth was like i i woke you up in the middle of the night. 1.30 in the morning. I cannot. Oh my God. I remember. As if like, wait, what? I showed you affection at 1.30 in the morning.

Yeah, who wants affection in the middle of your sleep? She has to get up at 5 a.m. And he kind of made it seem like he was waking her up to have sex and she didn't want to. And he was like, well, fine. Then that's me shooting my shot. I tried. I tried.

I don't know. I think, remember her telling me when they got back that like, well, fine. Then that's me shooting my shot. I tried. I tried. I don't know. I think, remember her telling me when they got back that like it was great. Their vacation was great. She was, they were very affectionate and then it just kind of like tapered off. So I don't know. Okay.

And what are your thoughts on the Jimmy Chelsea relationship after the pods? They kind of get into an argument in this episode and he calls her clingy. How would you have handled that? That was one of the other things that was telling to me. But he and I wouldn't have worked. I'm a little bit more like confrontational, I guess.

And I thought that when I saw it, I was like, maybe there were some things we didn't see because it kind of goes from like zero to 100. You didn't think Chelsea came across as clingy? Yes, I do. I think the way that she was shown makes her seem very clingy, but there is a lot between. Her whine. There was a lot in their relationship that was not shown. Such as?

I will say that her feelings were more than valid. Can you add to that? I think that she and I were both kind of sold on the same dream in the pods with jimmy as far as like uh he was ready for marriage and he he was like i live in south end which where we live in charlotte is like the social scene so if you are talking to a guy and he's like that's where i live you're like red flag he's like i live there but i don't i don't ever go out like i'm trying to settle down i'm a homebody and then I know when they got home, because again, Chelsea and I were friends. I knew what was going on.

He was going out a lot and he was kind of not upholding the commitment. He was going out a lot. Yes. Yeah. I know that there were some things that he had kind of promised both of us that, you know, when it came time to like live life with him, that's not really how it was. So her feelings were valid. I mean, I think that she was very emotional,

but you're, I mean, it's like an incubator. It's really hard to not be. All right, Jess, we're gonna say goodbye to you right now today because, and then you're gonna be back on Going Deeper. I know you're not leaving the couch, but for audience's purposes, we're gonna say goodbye to you right now and say hello to you on Thursday. So thank you for answering some of these

rapid fire questions. We know you have to catch a flight, but it's been great to meet you. And again, we'll talk to you on Thursday as well for going deeper. And then we'll find out finally what it was like for you to actually meet Jimmy face to face and then get your insights on some of the other drama going on, like Jeremy and Sarah and things like that. And then Jimmy- Jeremy and Laura. Jeremy and Laura.

Oh, Jeremy, Laura, and Sarah. And then Jimmy and his girlfriends. His throuple. Yeah. What throuple? All right. It's always fun to find ways to no longer be wasteful in your household.

We don't want to be wasteful for a variety of reasons. One, it can cost a lot of money being wasteful. Two, no one likes to be a part of a problem, you know, especially when we want to take care of our beautiful planet called Mother Earth. And that's where our good friends Papaya come in because confession, Nally and I have been guilty of running through a lot of paper towels. Now we're new parents. There's a lot of messes, spills, things like that. We're always wiping down the counter. We want to keep our place clean. And we have been running through a ton of paper towel. And that also gets pretty expensive. And then we discovered papaya. If you haven't heard of papaya, they make reusable

paper towels. This is exactly how it sounds. They're just paper towel-like material that don't break. And you can reuse it a ton of times. And it's great. It's not like a washcloth that if you reuse it a bunch of times, it starts stinking. Here's how papaya works. Paper towels that come with a hook so you can hang it wherever you need it. We have a papaya paper towel in every room of the house now because, you know, we got messes everywhere. And if you are tired of spending a lot of money on paper towels and you feel like you're burning through them, you got to invest in a papaya paper towel. Papaya is one of the best swaps we've ever made. We use them for everything like spills, counter dishes, and more.

Plus, they're all natural, so we feel good about using them around our baby. So if you want to stop buying jumbo packs of paper towels like we did, go to papayareusables.com and use code VIALL for 30% off site-wide. Again, that's papayareusables.com and use code VIALL for 30% off. That's a huge savings site-wide of everything that Papaya has to offer. So stop wasting that money. Get some great reusable

paper towels from Papaya. And trust me, you will be glad that you did. All right, Peloton. The other week we went out, Nellie, her mom and I, we went to a place where there was a gym. It took us like 20 minutes to park, same place that people had to park in the gym. And then I couldn't think how much time these people were wasting looking for parking, checking into the gym. Oh my God, it was probably like an hour and a half before they even got to their workout. Such a waste of time. Think of the calories you could be burning on your Peloton bike when right now you're wasting it looking for parking at whatever gym that you signed up for. I mean, you're probably paying for parking, you're paying for your gym membership, and then, oh my God, if you try getting out of that gym membership, the worst. All those hassles around gym memberships go away when you get yourself a Peloton bike. And there's so much fun. You can be competing with your friends across the world or this country, some great trainers, work out to your favorite music. And if you don't want to buy a bike, you can rent a bike with Bike Plus Rental. Tell us about that, Allie. So this is the genius solution if you're hesitant to commit and fully buy a Peloton bike, which I think you'll still really enjoy. But if you are a little anxious about doing that, you can do

the bike rental system. So you can either do the Peloton bike or the Peloton Bike Plus. There's a couple of different options for rentals, but your rental fee every month is going to do the bike rental system. So you can either do the Peloton bike or the Peloton bike plus. There's a couple of different options for rentals, but your rental fee every month is going to include the bike, cycling shoes, and your membership. So it's just all bundled together and it's really convenient and you can see how you like it. So stop wasting money, time, and the weird conversations you don't want to have with people at the gym and get yourself a Peloton bike or bike plus rental today. It just makes so much more sense. You'll have fun working out. There is absolutely no reason not to do it. Wherever you're starting, get moving with a Peloton bike or bike plus rental at www.onepeloton.com slash bike slash rentals. Again, that's

onepeloton.com slash bike slash rentals. Terms apply. Okay, well, now it's Monday morning. What a fun conversation with Jess we had yesterday. Well, we're all wearing the same clothes. Justin and I are still matching. I love that we let people know we recorded on Sunday. And now it's Monday. But we also made sure to wear the same outfits so people wouldn't know. I know. I was kind of wishing that you guys joined Leigh and I, because we accidentally twinned. So we were hoping you did an outfit change. True. I do have very similar shows. But love is blonde for continuity yeah you know with the golden cups but anyways yeah you did you did tell us to wear the same thing and then still said that it was two different days so like sometimes it's fun to let

the people know how the cheese is made a little bit um It's okay. It made picking my outfit this morning easier. I was going to say, saved me 20 minutes. Now, also, let's welcome Allie, who decided to join us because... It's not like she's usually here. I was like, hey, no, so you don't have to join.

All I do is just get shit on here. I'm just like, yeah, fine. Thanks for finally coming to work. And is Tara with us? She's here. Tara, come on in. Come on into the studio. Welcome to the show, Tara Schuster, everybody. Woo! Thank you for having me.

Get on in there. What have you been up to? Oh, you know, just watching a lot of reality television. Watching a lot of reality television. All of the time. Welcome back to the show. What was the last time you were on? It was our old studio.

Yeah, it was your old studio. I think it was in maybe this time last year when my second book came out. Anything new in life? What's new? Yeah, I mean, just a crazy year closer. There you go. Just a crazy year of promoting the book i mean that's like when you're doing a project like that you know it's everything is about that book you're

speaking about the book you're thinking about the book you live the book so i've had a pretty boring year actually just all about is that boring well it's very uh, a really focused year. I spent the week and my parents are in town because of the baby. Yes. Yeah. So they got to finally meet River, which was fun. It is surreal to see your parents hang with your kid, especially my dad. Like with my mom, I was like, okay, I've seen you with babies before. But there was something that made me more meta for me to see my dad play with my daughter then there was a period

of the weekend where i was explaining why travis kelsey and taylor swift are such a good couple to my dad um because my dad was like oh that taylor swift she really is impressive because they watch there's a netflix documentary about her uh i don't think it's the heirs tour but there's some sort of documentary miss americana miss americana yes my parents watched miss americana not too recently um and my dad had a lot of positive things to say about miss miss swift uh but then he was just like i don't know man i just don't really get that relationship and i'm like well let me tell you why it's such a good relationship um yeah let me take out my powerpoint yeah i had to explain to him how how challenging it would be to be taylor

swift uh and to date and the expectations around uh her um and that travis kelsey is one of the few men in this world made to uh the intensity of dating Taylor Swift. But it was a fun conversation that I had with my dad about Miss T. It was fun. So cute bonding over Taylor Swift. It was. It was a conversation I didn't expect to have with my father. So that was a good weekend.

And then my mom made chocolate chip cookies, which was great. They were good too. I brought them in to the Sunday crew. And I ate a lot. Something about having your parents in town where you just forego any dietary restrictions. I feel like you also kind of get to be a kid again because they're like,

let me give this to you. Let me make this for you. And you're like, oh, all right. See, I thought you gave us the cookies because you weren't eating the sugar. So I thought that was your way of avoiding it. It was definitely my way of, I brought four cookies and these are four cookies I won't eat.

I don't have any willpower inside my house. My willpower starts and stops at the grocery store. If it's in my house, it's gone. It's gone. You know, actually, the other week I had to I threw away Sour Patch Kids and Milk Duds. We were gifted Sour Patch Kids and Natalie brought some Milk Duds. She bought two boxes. You could have brought it here. I couldn't. No, it wasn't going to make it through the night.

It's dangerous. It wasn't going to get through the night, you know? You know what I'm saying? Like, sure, I could have brought it here. Had I not thrown them away. I would have eaten both of them with the intentions of bringing in them into the studio. So I had to put them in the garbage and then like spray something on it. I was I was Meredith. Meredith did that on Sex and the City. No, Miranda. That's exactly what I was thinking the entire time.

I was like, yeah, the dishwasher. So, yeah, that was me last week. Yeah, I ate it out thinking the entire time. I was like, up some dishwasher soap. Yeah, the dishwasher soap. Yeah. That was me last week. Yeah. I ate it out of the trash can. Anyways. So we had Tara. We had Jess in yesterday. Oh.

From Love is Blind. Oh my God. What did you say? What do we need to download Jess about? We just went through everything. We were like, how was the pod process? Have you been watching Love is Blind? Oh, yes.

She's up. Oh, yes. Perfect. So she has her EpiPen comment. People are saying Jess is a really beautiful girl. Yes. And essentially, she was pretty humble. She was like, we're all beautiful women.

I know who I am, and I respect and love myself for who I am. And she kind of just ran us through that process. There was a lot of pretending that they're all blind. I've noticed that on this cast. We can loosely mention that some people look a certain way and other, you know, there's a traditional level of attractiveness. But when you ask the cast, no, everyone's beautiful. Everyone looks the same. We're all gorgeous in our own way.

It's like, yeah, sure. Okay, whatever. Did you feel like it was damage control from her comments about, ooh, when he sees what I look like, like all of that? Probably a little bit from her point of view. I mean, you know, it's always interesting talking to cast. She did say that when she made that comment, she was talking about what you missed out on, not how I look. Yeah. What does that mean? Love, love, Love Jess. Thank you for coming. She was a sweetheart. I thought she was very articulate, well-spoken, very interesting. You could tell

there's a fire. She's got some sass to her, which I think is really compelling. I did not completely buy that line. And again, damage control, like you said. But listen, I empathize with not only Jess, but anyone. Listen, to go from 0 to 100, from obscurity to being, you know, just a Joe Schmo, Joe, Jane, Joe Schmo, Jane Schmo, Jane Schmo, Jane Schmo.

It's a lot, you know, and from our stand, like from my standpoint of loosely like being on the Internet, you know uh of a love is blind content just seems to be a fan favorite yeah she seems to be well liked you know we all like but i'm sure she's getting criticism on some end of the internet and she is seeing that right and so from her pov her perception of the criticism or her likability might be very different from my POV of hers. Right. So I'm sure she is, you know, when she is giving that answer, I'm guessing she's giving it under the lens of addressing anyone who's ever criticized her for the comments that she made. And, oh, you're think you're all this and blah, blah, blah. And that, you know, yeah. But of course, she was referring to her looks. Yeah, duh.

Yeah. I mean, what else would she be talking about? Apparently she was saying it was her charming personality, which is charming. The whole package. Yeah, the whole package. Which is what she was trying to say, that it wasn't to put down Chelsea's looks. I think she was just trying to say, like, I'm the full package. You're really going to miss out.

But I'm like, yeah. A statement like that kind of does insinuates that there's some sort of comparison that is happening there like once you see what you're missing right it's not as if these cast members are in the um community like the the communal rooms blindfolded yeah you know like it's not they're not actually blind right you know so they do get to look at each other. There's an element of that. But it's fascinating to see the cast afraid to even objectively talk about looks.

I also do think that them all being in the same city, since it's like they've just created a whole new friend group as well. So I'm also kind of like, I wonder if they're careful about what they say because it's like, I'm going to see you you again that is another element of love is blind they they filmed these shows like a year ago right uh they all they're all in the same city they are building friendships and rapport go beyond the petty andromedas that we want from them right like

talk some shit you know like they're like i'm involved i've known this girl for a year we're like but wasn't she awful in the pods a year ago yeah it's like wasn't like wasn't she really whiny like you don't love me that's your favorite but why why you're an asshole oh god her sorry you walked in you didn't give me one kiss today. Oh, God. You didn't tell me you love me in the right way. Oh, God. I would.

I couldn't. Oh, my God. I don't think I would have made it through Special Forces if they had to play Chelsea whining in those headphones where I had to listen to those torture music. If it was just Chelsea the whole time being like. Kiss me. where I had to listen to those torture music. And it was just Chelsea the whole time being like, why won't you kiss me? What I loved about that was Jimmy kept being like, no, wait, I did kiss you. Remember when I kissed you here and then I kissed you here? And she kept saying, you didn't kiss me.

I was like, what's going on? I don't think I've ever seen a man take inventory like that. He was like, the like it's two the second i walked in right when you did this and i was like whoa whoa i gotta talk to my boyfriend about this clingy clingy clingy yeah i know i called you clingy um and then when and then she was like the whole sex part he was like well well since we're bringing that up i don't know oh god i was i don't think we're giving jimmy enough of credit for some of his one-liners when dealing with chelsea i will say i was shocked is it chelsea or kelsey chelsea you gotta say kelsey megan fox if you want to can we just call her megan fox much easier carrie underwood whatever you want yeah um but no I did not like Jimmy from the beginning essentially and now I'm like rooting for him I'm like get out get out and so it's

interesting hearing people say that Chelsea's actually a lot stronger and a lot like um that she stands up for herself a lot more by herself than she is in a relationship because I feel like Jess was saying that too that it was like I'm not used to seeing her like this. It's actually shocking. And I'm like, it's interesting because I don't know. I'm like, how can you be one way like that? And then to everybody else, they're like, no, she's strong. She stands up for herself.

And I'm like, I'm not seeing that. But I could see it with someone like Jimmy. Like I've been listening to the show and you commented that Jimmy's like the hot jock and it became a competition between Jess and Chelsea. So if Chelsea's trying to win that competition, but she kind of sort of knows Jess is, you know, she's got to look, then she's super insecure. And, you know, even from my personal dating experience, when I'm dating someone who I

know isn't 100 about me, you know when you just know, you're like sinking, feeling anxiety. Oh, like, does he like me? Does he like me? It's really hard to control that. And then she's on a TV show. I can only imagine that her insecurity was like 100%. Just how she is projecting that insecurity is tough to watch.

She has no control. Not holding back, yeah. None. No. I mean, what's great about love is blind and it's not jimmy is really like it's it's peak love is blind um kind of reaction but like it's these people act as if and people do this in relationship as if they can convince themselves that they're in love no i, I love you. No, I said I love you. And I do love you. I love you.

It's just like, I don't know. You can keep saying it, but I don't know if you're convincing you or me. Or like, what are you trying to do, Jim? Every time he says, we probably have the most perfect relationship here. Everything's great. You're like, wait, who are you talking to? Who are you trying to convince? Yeah. Like, who are you trying to convince? Yeah. Yeah. Who are you trying to convince?

And it's so it's weird to see him when they were in the Dominican Republic. And it was was weird to see him projecting this like amazing thing when really like you would see him not even pay attention to Chelsea to be with AD like everyone else has eyes too you know it's not like some secret everyone can see how you guys are relating and they weren't affectionate at all in public yeah I mean it was giving me a fair like it was like his perspective and her perspective and they're two completely different things she's over in the corner crying because he's like my girl loves me we're the. We're the best couple. She's literally crying. She's like, right there. About you. Now she's got allergies.

Yeah. What do we make of his friendships? Can someone have woman friends? I, I'm no, like, I don't know that that might be my own insecurities but i just feel like especially when i'm older past like 25 like platonic outside of work and like having an actual purpose just hanging out on a friday night sleepovers whatever i just know no no no but

there is speculation online that jimmy has had maybe a romantic relationship with one of these friends oh no jimmy no you don't bring someone you slept with to meet your fiance yeah i we've talked about i mean i've talked about this on the show in the past i you know in my single days you know when i was single for years i think every straight man who goes through like a long period of being single and like if they're in their thirties and they're still single, which is, I'm not saying that as a bad thing, you know, but if that happens, um, I think every straight man has like that girlfriend that long before they might've hooked up with on some random night, but they were like, this is weird. There's nothing here. We're actually just friends. And they are just friends. There's no sleeping in each other's house. They're not hookup buddies or anything like that. They are

truly platonic friends. And because they're so single, it totally works. And that friend will play that girlfriend role. And again, they're not playing the girlfriend role in the caressing or intimacy or things like that, but they will go to dinner or you go see a movie. And you might even talk about each other's dating. You'll give each other dating advice, but having the comfort of the woman friend, the companion, the person you can go to, to meet some of your emotional needs. I think a lot of straight men who are single in their thirties have that type of friend. I had that type of friend and more than one occasion throughout my thirties. And they, it was totally, completely platonic.

Like to the point of like, you know, years later, you're like, we actually hooked up. That was fucking weird. You know, nevertheless, to both of your points, he brought these friends on a national television show. They were the ones who met his now fiance. That's a choice. Yeah. Like, don't you have other bros, Jimmy? For me, it was redeeming.

Because I thought Jimmy was kind of douchey in the pods and then like in the Dominican Republic. But the second he brought female friends on the show, I was kind of like, okay, maybe like they're there to check him like I saw him less as a douchey person the second he had like female friends because a lot of like playboys won't admit that they have close female friends so that was my take on it I feel like that's what he was trying to do but I think right now the internet is speculating that something happened he's hooked up with one of them yeah I think minus those speculations in my personal opinion it's okay for a man to have close female friendships if these speculations turn out to be true and he's had a relationship with one of them or both

of them then i think it's very different but i think that without that sexual history i don't know i agree with justin i think it kind of made me like jimmy more that he you know his two best friends in the world are i I think that's great. But I think to Chelsea's point, when Natalie and I started dating, you know, it's not, it's not like Natalie,

I started dating and she's like, well, do you have any women friends? And I'm like, yeah, well not anymore. Like that wasn't the conversation, but like as our relationship evolved and became more serious,

those friendships, like, yeah. Am I still friends with these women? Yeah, well, like keep in touch. And I mean, I've had women friends that there were truly no, there's no pass with, you know, but like, yeah, you maintain the friendship, but I'm no longer like grabbing dinner with them every once in a while. I don't go like, hey, there's this movie. I want to go see it. Like I'm not doing that shit with them anymore. The friendships drastically change. The dynamic changes because now I'm in a romantic

relationship and I don't need that person to meet my emotional needs, even though, you know, I have a I have a fiance or I had a girlfriend then, you know, and so I think that was probably his desire to like be like, yeah, I'm like I'm like i'm a girl's guy you know like i have girlfriends but it just in the context of those are the people you want to introduce to your now fiance you know it was a weird like just introduce him to your bros yep you know because you're only gonna trigger megan fox yeah yeah yeah when i was single i had like guy friends and whatnot that we got to the bar wing woman the whole thing it's it's it's and never had any desire to sleep with or whatever. But I'm saying there is I feel like especially for single people where it's like, but if we did hook up, it wouldn't be the end of

the world. It wouldn't change the dynamic of our friendship or whatever it may be. And I'm like that to me when you have a significant other, it's like the respect of putting them on the pedestal of like you are my best friend, you are my partner. And then everybody else kind of starts to like fade away or you have to change the dynamics of those relationships or else it does create an uncomfortable situation. If it's like your best girlfriend's being invited over for dinner every other night or we're going to the movies and it's the three of us like, no, respectfully. I think changing the dynamic of the relationship is different than telling someone it's over you can't be friends with them anymore so we'll see what happens here but i think that i don't think chelsea has a right to say cut it off but i do think that she has a

right to say the relationship between you and your girlfriends needs to be different moving forward because now i'm you can't be friends with them anymore can you bring up the cast photos for me, Justin? Yeah, yeah, yeah. The whining. I just can't with the whining. It's aggressive. It's aggressive whining. I will say I do like her web presence on TikTok, though. She's very much like making fun of herself.

She does it, yeah. I think she's handling it very well and tactfully that I'm like, okay, I can respect that. Well, that's in her control as opposed to this, which is in Netflix. This is not your edit. Well, I mean, I don't know if Netflix edited it in her whining. No. That was her. I mean, she did that. But she can

edit that out when she posts it on TikTok. Julia Fox came to her defense, though, in the comments. She agrees with you justin she thinks that she does resemble megan fox i think she does i also do i i want to be on record as saying when she said that i was like oh i kind of see what what she's kind of saying i could see that's not really the point i mean there was a tiktok she's like hey if you've ever been my friend and you've ever told me i look like megan fox please come forward that's she's

missing the point she is missing the point i mean i'm sure you've been told that you look like some beautiful people i was actually thinking about that when she said that and i was like actually no no one has ever said like you look like a a celebrity. So I was a lot of, okay. Well, you're maybe the, but a lot of people, but yes, you know, in small towns across this great land of ours, you know, that's what people do. They're like, they see a celebrity and they squint their eyes to their friends and they're like, you got a beard and dark hair. You look like him. And it's like, oh my God.

And yeah, I guess maybe you kind of resemble that person but you don't go on love is blind and use that as the only descriptor that you have of yourself to set a false expectation that's the point it's like i no one's doubting that someone told her this right i i've i totally believe just so you know chelsea i believe that you've been told this. I don't think you made it up. That's not why she's receiving the criticism. It's that she was like, well, I've been, you know, that she told that to Jimmy and it clearly, you know, played a role in his decision. It was misleading. Yeah.

It was very misleading and not the point of the show. Yeah. But I think what we've witnessed is Chelsea have a spiral. That this whole show for her has been an anxiety, insecurity spiral and we're like witness to it. It's like you're witness to your best friend

who's just like falling apart because of some dude. And so I would believe that she actually is like much stronger and a bigger personality outside of this one circumstance where she's kind of sucking. You know, she's letting these insecurities run away, constantly whining, like no emotional regulation of any sort.

Yeah. When they're in the kitchen and she's whining, she's to Jimmy like Jimmy's clearly he's panicking. Yes. He's just just like i don't know what to say or do and like when he first calls her uh needy or clingy and then he was like i can't and he was like then he was trying to be like oh you know i didn't but you are kind of being and he was trying to think of any word else like he was trying to bring up his thesaurus of like other he's like but you were clearly he didn't have any other word to describe it but he knew he could he shouldn't say that but he was he was trying to articulate that she was up his ass jess did point out that, you know,

because on the show, in Chelsea's defense, on the show, it is aired as if Jimmy in the pause is like, listen, I don't go out. When people ask me, I tell people I'm not a big drinker. I don't go out a lot. Especially now

when I'm fiancé. My whole life, that's generally what I've said. I'm not a big partier. I don't out a lot, you know, especially now, you know, I'm, you know, fiance, but even my whole life, that's generally what I've said. You know, I'm not, I'm not a big partier. I don't drink a lot. Those are true statements. You know, if my friends who know me, some of my closest friends who, you know, can drink a lot more than I do, you know, compared to them, it's all relative. Right. But like, have I been out to the clubs?

Yes. You know, have I gone out to the clubs yes you know have i gone out two nights in a row yes have i been shit-faced out of my mind yes you know what i'm saying so like he was kind of smart to say less though because like if he were to say more he would have activated her more versus he just kind of like okay well then he doubled down and he said the that she's the one who initiated the sex. And that's where... I thought that... I'm curious what the ladies think. This show is watched by more women than men. And I think it's tougher for the men out there to...

I don't think men are often given the benefit of the doubt with these shows. I think Jimmy saved himself. Because the stereotype is that all men are horny. And all men want have sex and blah blah blah blah blah and for jimmy to be like well actually i could use a little bit of a break there i think kind of saved him because like i don't i think it was a a moment where you're just like oh he's he's overwhelmed even like because it's always like well you you want to do this you want to do that you'll go with your friends but you'll still have sex with me you know and he's just like no like i really i need a pause on everything about you chelsea i i feel like that endeared him to a lot of people but to the viewers yeah maybe for me like

being in that situation i was like oh that's not helping you at all, sir. Oh, no, no, it wasn't helping him. Yeah, okay, I was like, she's already heightened. I mean to America. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think to America, I made him look good. To Chelsea. I was like, you're activating her all over again because now you're telling her you don't really want to sleep with her when you're doing it as a favor or out of pity. And it's like that would make me that would send me. That for me was the lowest of the low for Jimmy. And I already didn't understand his appeal at all. I mean, in the pods, all he's basically he was like, I don't have the words. I don't know what

to say. Really quiet. I didn't understand what was interesting about him even a little bit. And then when they're standing there, it's almost like he's blaming her for wanting sex. And it's if someone said that to me, if I was in a fight with my boyfriend and he said, well, you're the one who wants to have sex like I don't even want to have sex with you. It would be a devastating moment. Who brought up the sex part? Did she bring it up or did he bring it up? Like, did she bring up? I think she brings it up. I think she brought it up or did he bring it up like did she bring up i think he brings it up i think she brought it up and then he retorted later being like well if we're gonna talk about that yeah i think you're right yeah see because i'm kind of team jimmy there i mean i get that it would send

her and i would there's no reason to say that though yeah any human knows that if you say well you're the one who wanted to have sex that that is not going to get a good reaction. Like, how is that helpful? How is Jimmy helping himself? No, no, no. I don't think he's helping him. Well, I think there is helping himself to the audience and there's helping himself to Chelsea. And I don't think in that moment he was trying to help himself.

Well, maybe he was trying to failing. Failing. Because I was like, he's not cognizant, I think, in that moment. I mean, I think he's actually very aware of cameras being around and everything. But I don't think he was cognizant in that moment of being like, this will look better to viewers. I think he was like, I don't know what else to say or do with you. And like, if you're going to keep attacking me or accusing me, then I'm going to set the record straight. I didn't want to do that anyways.

And it's like, I get where your point was coming from. But the delivery, the moment and the timing, I just don't it's not helping you. It's not doing any favors. Yeah, I feel like he only said it because he was she was rapid fire with all these reasons that he's the worst. And then he's like, well, if you're going to bring that up, I didn't even want to have sex that night you initiated it and he was it was just he was just feeling so snowball snowball just shut up already walk away like in a moment like that someone was whining to me like that i i would have to walk away i'd be like i can't do this with you right now like we'll come back when we both calm down but i'm gonna take a walk i'm gonna take drive. I will be gone for the next couple of hours. Clingy.

Clingy. She was acting like that was the worst thing you could be in the entire world. Well, I don't know of any woman that I've ever met who would enjoy being called clingy. That's true. But it wasn't like he said, I don't love you, I'm out, there's something wrong with you. He obviously was spiraling. I mean, he looks panicked in the moment and trying not to say clingy,

but that's the only word that comes to mind. Well, it really kind of shows what he really feels, because when you're in love, you don't mind your partner being a little clingy. Or you just tell him in the moment, being like, hey. Yeah, I need a little space. But if you're feeling feeling that and then it has to come out in a fight i'm like you're also not being completely authentic in your relationship either like he had to say the word clingy to make his point he couldn't just be like hey no no i don't think you're understanding me you're fucking cling clinging. What do we make of Kenneth and the breakup? I was shocked

that they had never made out before. That was very surprising information because at the beginning, they were my favorite couple of everybody. I love them. I thought this is going to last. They really get each other. And then to find out that all this time they haven't even

kissed was really weird, I thought. i thought yeah well we found out from jess that that breakup according to jess was acting they've already had the conversation yeah oh that's not oh that's not the moment sometimes in reality tv this happens on the bachelor um you know when they're making these reality TV shows, the general thought process with producers, you know, for all the criticism producers will get about, you made me do this, you put me in this situation. A lot of it comes down, or you, you blindsided me. I, you should have told me you were going to do this. It's not because the producers are evil

or Machiavellian. The premise is we're not working with actors. We're working with real people and we want real authentic reactions to real situations. And so to do that, they have to have the cameras going all the time. They don't want to give people a heads up. They don't want people to anticipate things because they want the initial reaction to be caught on camera. That doesn't always happen. There have been scenes in The Bachelor, sometimes people are in the water, you know, uh, and they have to take their mics off. And sometimes things are set in the water, like big moments, like, Hey, I love you. You know? And they're like, Oh, we kind of wanted that on camera. You know, you know, that term first time you, you're saying, I love you. I'm the bachelor kind of a big moment. Well, you know, if that were to happen where they don't have it, they might say,

we're going to have to do that again some people are good at you know leaning into the moment and being actors and some people aren't and hearing that from Jess I think what we saw is Kenneth isn't an actor and he was more like yeah I don't really need to do this again I'm on my phone and he was reading

the script from his phone Brittany she was more like no no I can do this yeah I can we can lean in i can lean in because according to jess they they had both agreed that this wasn't a thing that this relationship was going nowhere fast and they didn't have it documented so that scene was a bit of a recreation and does that change your perception of Kenneth? Not really. I mean, now that you say it in that moment, it makes a lot more sense why he's so just neutral, doesn't care by. But he had been on his phone. I mean, I guess it depends on when they actually first broke up because he's on his phone. That's all we see. They get back to America and he's

just on the phone. so do you think they broke up in the dominican republic you know that boat when they're on the boat and it's like the boat of death yeah nobody's talking and he's like dolphins they saw the dolphins are like oh actually never mind something to talk about he also gave himself away with that too because he was like thankful for the dolphins and he was like now you can get me to talk and it's like so you're consciously making the choice to make this awkward. I thought in that moment, I thought, I don't know, there's something very wrong in this situation. I want to defend him a little bit because I just saw an introverted man who I think people forget just how intense these environments are and the decompression that is required of these people.

And Love is Blind is a little different than The Bachelor because they go from a bubble, an isolated bubble, to then kind of less than a bubble on these honeymoons and then almost no bubble back in their community's access to their phones and their family. And there's a bit of a decompression. And people handle these situations all, all different ways. And some people need to be alone. Some people decompress on their phone is was clear. Was he

on his phone way too much? Obviously, you know, was it a bad look? Obviously, but also they could have just simply shown all those moments and the boat ride you described. We don't know if that was a 10 minute boat ride or a 15 minute boat ride, you know? And like, I'm in the car with Natalie and sometimes we don't talk. The only thing that was different, she clearly wanted to talk. And that was, it made it seem like she was uncomfortable with the silence. Well, that doesn't, again, mean anything other than maybe that's just two different people where he's comfortable in silence as an introvert and she's uncomfortable with it feeling like, well, if you don't talk to me, that maybe says something about your feelings for me where all i could have said was i'm just

cool like chilling you know but that wasn't the vibe yeah and it's that wasn't the vibe at all his bro was what do you call it his brow was furrowed he was seemed lost in thought somewhere completely different than on that boat where I totally get it. You're in a car ride or in a boat. You're with your boyfriend. You're not talking every moment. There's actually something beautiful to be comfortable in silence, but neither of them look comfortable. It doesn't help that they were sitting on two sides of the boat. Yeah, completely not touching. And then Brittany would try to touch or try to do something, and he wasn't having it. Even the two of them on the front of the boat, though, when she was like trying to lie on him and whatnot,

he made it very uncomfortable. And the thing is, I understand being an introvert, but at the same time, this is the partner that you're supposedly picking to choose the rest of your life with. Have a conversation on a boat. You're in the middle of a gorgeous ocean. Call out a bird. I mean, there's just literally anything that you could be doing. We call the dolphins.

An hour later. But I'm like that you could be doing to get an hour later but i'm like you you should be trying to get comfortable with this person if you're claiming to want to marry this person so i feel like the reservations in his mind about what was going to happen with their relationship was already brewing also kind of hated for for him that the one thing that he really loved really kind of i really didn't like dolphins in captivity is not a is not a pleasant sight no no um like i was just like ew yuck ick and he's just loving it i felt so bad for him in that moment no matter what i was just like oh he's looking for anything just dolphins so he was into dolphins he was this boy loved dolphins. Lit up. Lit up.

Definitely more than Britney, that's for sure. Yeah. Britney was like, great, I'll take dolphins on aisle whatever. Like, he's saying something. I just don't think he is the monster that the internet is claiming that he is. Oh, does the internet hate him? Oh my God, for that breakup? They hate him.

Oh, I didn't realize that. When he was like, when he says like all right now give me a hug so there's no beef i mean like what a weird way to break up with someone for sure people are hating they're hating the fact that he was like okay i have my bags i'm ready to go like off camera yeah comment that was like on the mic so it adds more context that he was ready to leave well well just out of the context that again like this was a recreation yeah exactly you know if that's true though britney is a good actress. Yes, I agree. Because she was waterworks and he's just sitting there, I mean, on his phone.

And it was just so uncomfortable to watch. You know, she's just fully breaking down and he's just like on his phone in another world. That was what did it for me. Part of me doesn't think that she was like acting, though, because I'm also kind of like I feel like women are very like in touch with our emotions and i think she was very hopeful in the beginning that like this was her partner so i'm like regardless if they've already had this conversation or you're coming to terms with it the reality that this is over like that would make me cry in a moment well i can say from personal experience uh having had

to recreate a scene or two um it's a little bit like that yeah it's you're tapping into the feelings that you have yeah already and even though you've done that you're it's a little bit of method in a sense but you're you're not faking the feelings you're just bringing them back right you know you're you're going there you know you're you're just like i felt this way yesterday i'll just remind myself how I felt. And I still feel shitty about it. So we'll just do this again and I'm going to torture you. And, you know, Kenneth still just doesn't care. Yeah.

He's just happy to be out. Kenneth is like, I checked out yesterday. Okay. He's like, I was checked out on the boat. I just don't care. He's like, all right, let's get this overtime in and we'll be out. Dude, what do we think of Jeremy and the Sarah? I mean,

the fact that he, you can tell this guy is a smooth operator because he was like, I left on my GPS and knowing that, and then he left his phone in his car. Well, so he thinks he's a smooth operator, right? So he goes,

Laura baits him. He goes the whole conversation and be like, well, I gave you my location. My phone showed that I was at this bar or whatever area. Fans are speculating now that the reason Laura knew that he wasn't

at where his car was is because his Apple Watch had a location. Oh. So people think that she was able to track like the location updated with where he was actually physically moving.

Oh God. So they think that he hopped in Sarah Ann's car and drove to Sarah Ann's place. Idiot. So he thinks he's a smooth operator, but. And it's. So they think that he hopped in Sarah Ann's car and drove to Sarah Ann's place. Idiot. So he thinks he's a smooth operator, but... And it's true that he was with her. I think smooth operator in the sense that he is even thinking about that.

That's true. You know, to... Messy. Well, that was his thing. That was his only saving grace is he's like, I shared my location with you, so how could I be lying? And then she was like, oh, really? You want to talk about how you're lying? Like I got you red handed. I love how she waited till the end of the conversation.

She just like caught him, reeled him in, then was like, OK, now let's talk about it. Let's talk about South End. And why were you there at 5 a.m.? I also love that she said she was sleeping and she's like, nope, actually was watching the entire time. I did love it. What am I supposed to do with that? I was asleep. And then it's like, nope, actually was watching the entire time. I did love it. What am I supposed to do with that? I was asleep. And then it's like, wait, so when did you get up exactly to check the location? He got caught in his own lie for sure. A thousand percent in the way that she did.

It was brilliant. Sorry. But I do have to say, maybe it's the editing, but the thing we see before it is he's meeting her parents and she is so mean to him she's not she's not nice i mean i've never seen something like that she sets him up to fail she says oh is something bad gonna happen if you're gonna be awkward with my parents like she brings all this negativity in and then she's just negging him the entirety of the time her parents were kind of like low-key like, she's kind of a bitch. Like without saying it, they kind of said it.

They were. Her mom was like, you guys are pretty harsh to each other. Also. The dad. Creative idea for Love is Blind. What if in the pods you get to meet, when you're down, right before you get engaged, you meet their parents. Face to face.

You get to see what they look like. Oh face. You get to see what they look like. Oh, God. You get to see what they act. You know? Some people take care of themselves, and they age gracefully. Some people, you know, it's a lot of cigarettes and alcohol from 30. And maybe it's a misrepresentation of how you might age. But I think it adds a layer. Well, it would challenge the blind part.

Because you're getting to see. A little bit of bit of a taste yeah maybe a blind intro to them like there's a world where jess's parents you know didn't take care of themselves but didn't age gracefully we don't know i've actually not seen jess's parents maybe chelsea's mom looks like megan fox maybe yeah and then and then you know who knows what work has been done. And like, it creates a, it creates more questions than answers, even though there's a perception of you getting information. That's what I love the idea about love, like introducing the parents, because you think you're getting more information, but in reality, it's creating way more questions and may potentially leading you down paths that, you know, it's, it's like, it's like Chelsea's

saying she kind of looks like Megan Fox. It's a challenge. I know, it's like Chelsea's saying, she kind of looks like Megan Fox. It's a challenge, I feel like. It's like a seed of doubt you could sow and then to really challenge, well, do you really feel this way about that person now that you see this? Yeah, I think that would be a fun wrinkle. But yeah, she's not. It just wasn't kind.

And then I loved how her sister was saying, you know, Hawaiian shirts. Like, if my person is really into something, I want to be supporting them. Like, yeah, that's how a relationship works. Why is this being explained to Laura this late in the game? Yeah, Laura was like, no, it's an ick. It's an ick. Oh, and I'm over that. I'm over just all ick.

Yes, me too. I'm like, come on. Use your words. You're an adult. It was fun for a minute. Yeah. It was like a nice little viral trend and then it became... We're not five anymore. We have other words aside from ick. Like, I am sorry I have this habit that you don't love, but like, oops.

Can we bring oops back I want to see oops going viral good on Jeremy though for standing by his Hawaiian shirts yeah I mean Jeremy will own I don't know I mean well then there's all these like rumors about him and getting out of a relationship

there's rumors about Trevor having a girlfriend what no that's a big one there's a lot of rumors about Trevor having a girlfriend. What? No. Oh, that's a big one. There's a lot of rumors about the men and the cast and things like that. Basher gets this too. Or it's just like, what's the casting department do? There's like this meme, like a classic meme of a security guard, like this really old security guard.

I don't know if you've ever seen it. And he is patting people down. And he's just waving his hands next to their bodies and then letting them go. Clearly not doing... You know. And the meme is like, this is how

the Love is Blind casting department is qualifying these people. But what does the internet want? You know? These people aren't... They're not getting screen to have like nuclear codes. You know, they're not getting top secret information. They're going on a trashy reality TV show that quite honestly, a lot of people wouldn't do. You know, so it says something about you if and not necessarily something you know negative but if

it says that you're comfortable with a certain level of being exposed which is why it is surprising to me though and a level of messiness that you might have and i say this is someone who went on the bachelor multiple times like i include myself in this but yes it does it it takes a certain type of person you know and we want messy we we love these fucking scandals why is the internet acting like it's ruining our experience because the love is blind casting department is is casting messy people well that's part of the game though of being in the audience is hating on things and oh my god that's outrageous that's if if they were just a bunch of nice people with no problems that would be so boring we would have

a bunch of johnnies and what's her name amy's like i every no offense to johnny johnny amy they seem like lovely lovely people but other than his whole birth control they come on my screen and I cannot wait till they get off of it. I'm so bored of them because they're, you know, in love. They're functional. They're love. They're like, oh, you guys, I think you're going to get married. I could care fucking less about you two. They're taking dance lessons.

Yeah. They're in the pool having a nice time with one another. Although the birth control thing is very intense very bizarre that is an odd um like uh it's just a weird dynamic especially to see on tv like a conversation like that about birth control we're just like it's i mean what who scared him i don't know i don't know what was like if you if if you put the p in the v you will instantly get pregnant it's giving coach car from mean girls yeah it is if you have sex you will get an std and die yeah don't have sex in the missionary

position don't have sex standing up yes no those were his parents literally 100 yeah he's like if she's not on birth control you're gonna get pregnant and it's the rest of your life. Don't even look at her naked. Yeah. Because she might get pregnant. And you can tell how panicked he is about it because he starts bringing up the finances. He's like, listen, I'm just not in a financial position to have children right now. It's like a very serious list of reasons why not.

So you can tell he's he's really scared oh yeah oh yeah how do you feel about uh um clay just airing his dad's dirty laundry on a national television because it also seems to me like from from the get clay is desperately trying to let ad know that there is no chance uh we're we're gonna end up together i mean i've written two self-help books where i just fully say every detail of my life and i had a really um rough upbringing where my parents don't come off in the best light so for me as long as you're being kind about what your story is like it doesn't seem like he's actually out to get his dad in any way. Not at all.

So I'm okay with him bringing up the truth. If that's the truth and he's bringing up and he's not mean to his dad, what I'm not okay with is all of him altogether. Clay is one of my least favorite. Although respect to him that he from the beginning is like, I don't, you know, I don't know about marriage. He's very upfront. But even in the pods, when he's all about her appearance, he yells at her.

I mean, I've just have never been a fan of Clay. OK, is that a hot take? Not to like Clay? I mean, I don't think he's like a fan. I think the men generally are get roasted on this show. Yeah. Yeah, I think he's all right you know i don't think he treats her very well not in the pods and well especially in the pods then in real life i

think he's a lot nicer in person but he really talk about people who are not in touch with his emotions i mean he's on a journey that's to take many years to figure out those issues. I think it's just obvious that he has no business. He has no interest in getting married. And then he went on a show where clearly that's the expectation. In a very short period of time at that. It makes me sad a little bit. I always feel sad for people when it's like their childhood trauma plagues them so much that it's like you might have a good thing.

And because of the sins of the father, you're going to ruin something good for yourself based off of the fear that you are your parents. So I just think he just really needs some therapy, truly, to work through childhood trauma. Because I'm like, I always have a lot of sympathy for entrepreneurs and people who are trying to start up businesses. It's not an easy feat. And I think he's very focused on that, which I think is admirable. But I also, yeah, I'm like, I don't think that AD deserved to be put through that. At the same time, I think he was transparent about his fears. I just think he needs to work through them. Yeah.

AD seems very intuitive. I love how she observes her peers she's just like one of those people who is probably really great at giving advice um except when it's her own bullshit you know because she definitely sees an opportunity like because that's what clay is clay is just like i have clay clay is with he's saying a bunch of things but at the end of the day when you break it all down he is saying i have a ton of potential and i need someone to help me reach the finish line that's basically what he's saying totally he's like a he's a project to be taken on i actually just personally learned for myself you can't date potential and i think that's something that's so hard for so many people because you do see,

you know, in his defense, in Clay's defense, exactly what you said, he's at least self-aware enough to know he has issues. You know, he's not totally lost and he knows where he needs to heal. He knows where he needs to grow. That's so hard. It's a hard path,

but it is great that he's at least aware of it right yeah sunday sunday sundays hey it's uh it matters what you feed your dog it really does if you love your dog like we love ours you want to make sure that you are feeding them healthy good food to extend their quality of life i mean what you put in your body matters and what you put in your dog's body matters too. So make sure they are getting high quality ingredients, ingredients that you can get from Sundays for Dogs. Sundays is a fresh dog food made from a short list of human grade ingredients.

Sundays was co-founded by Dr. Tori Waxman, a practicing veterinarian. Sundays contains 90% meat, 10% superfoods and zero synthetic nutrients or artificial ingredients. And it's also incredibly easy to travel with because unlike other fresh dog food, Sundae's does not require refrigeration or preparation because of their air drying process. Just pour and serve. And again, super easy to travel with if you want it.

You don't want to like not feed your dog healthy food when you travel. And with Sundae's, super easy to pack and go. Every order ships right to your door, so you'll never have with Sundays, super easy to pack and go. Every order ships right to your door, so you'll never have to worry about running out of dog food again. And when you start a Sundays for Dogs subscription, you'll automatically get 20% off and free shipping on every reorder. Cancel or pause your subscription anytime. They're 100% satisfaction guaranteed. Get 40% off your first order of Sundays. Go to sundaysfordogs.com slash V-I-A-L-L or use code V-I-A-L-L at checkout. Again, that's sundaysfordogs.com slash V-I-A-L-L. And use our code V-I-A-L-L for 40% off your first order of Sundays.

Hold on to your kilts, dearies. Peacock original The Traitors is back with a new season of strategy, betrayal, sabotage, and murder. This killer season features an all-new celebrity cast that Vulture hailed as reality royalty, living in a Scottish castle for the ultimate murder mystery competition. stars in public figures battling it out for a whopping cash prize this season's cutthroat missions are next level just like whatever alan cumming pulls out of his brilliantly eccentric wardrobe one thing is for sure these 21 players will do anything to avoid a plot in alan's graveyard find out why critics and audiences alike are raving about the emmy award-winning series the new york times is calling it a murder mystery with clothes to die for and vox adding that it should be your new reality tv obsession we are certainly obsessed stream every episode of traders now only on peacock i mean speaking of healing vanderpump rules this episode there was a lot of emotions a lot of serious topics addressed i don't know if anybody had

any thoughts on specific ones that came up yeah it was it was a lot, the Vanderpump episode. And I guess trigger warning, because we are going to be talking about suicide, because that's what the show wants to talk about. And it is an interesting, challenging way to talk about a show that, you know, we're here talking about reality TV shows and, you know, kind of making fun of it. I don't know how I feel about Vanderpump leaning in to this narrative. I've seen these types of questions thrown out online, but it begs the question, like there's two possibilities going on. One, Tom Sandoval is,

in fact, struggling with his mental health. He is having suicidal thoughts. He is in danger of self-harm. And he is around production. He is around his peers. These people who have great access to him are deciding to take that mental health struggle and making it the main topic so far of this season, which seems fucked up if that is the case. Or he's not actually in that place and they're making it a theme of the show.

To me, the criticism goes towards the show more than anything. Like, make it about Scandival. And yeah, maybe Tom talked about this. Ariana's now getting a lot of heat for some of her comments. She said kind of sounding, well, I think she even used the words annoying or annoyed when talking about tom and yeah that comes across very poorly but at the same time yeah i mean tom has told said this to me in person uh he said this publicly about ariana's mental health and why he didn't break up with her at the same time we We didn't really talk about it. We didn't take it all that seriously.

We didn't, we didn't, it wasn't a topic of the show. And so, yeah, it's like, I, it's kind of sucks that the show is making Tom Sandoval's mental health,

the main, like, and that's what the show is doing. The show is questioning Tom Sandoval's sincerity when talking about mental health. And I kind of hate it. filming that seems fucked up it's completely messed up i mean if there was a real suicide threat and they were just like whatever why don't we just keep the cameras rolling i mean they need to let's lean into it let's ask the questions they need to help him yeah like it seems he needs to like be um they um when you're i've actually dealt with some of this myself and the thing you have to do is be around people get help sometimes people get hospitalized for suicidal ideation to protect them.

So the fact that the production itself doesn't protect him at all is deeply troubling. And using it as a topic? Yeah. Well, and you're also giving the audience exactly what you were saying. It's like you're fighting between two perspectives of do I feel sorry for this person? Because if I were going through what he were going through, would I be strong enough to get through it myself? I don't know. And then it's like on the other end, it's like you're making us question if he's using it as a manipulation tactic to get back in the group because he had such a horrible year previously. So it's like it's not really fair

if you're trying to help him or revamp his image or whatever it may be. It's not really fair to put that on the audience because now it's making us kind of assholes. know what i mean because we're sitting here being like the show's asking the question yeah that's like that's what the after show was even about yeah it's icky all the way around yeah and then and then we're kind of throwing ariana ariana under the bus for even questioning his authenticity when the show is basically, you know, suggesting that we shouldn't take it seriously, because if, like we just talked about, if it was serious, then there's no way they would be leaning into it like they're leaning into it. And Ariana must know this, you know, and then we go into, you know, the New York Times interview where, you know, like, and I'm not an expert in these things. I think you can be a self-centered,

narcissistic person who still wants the cameras rolling and still be struggling with your mental health. I mean, Tom Sandoval could be struggling with his mental health. I'm worried. I am worried for the guy. Like, he doesn't seem all that well. And maybe he is a product of this show. And his whole life is being on camera and so when he's just like hey to the new york times reporter are you recording so the average person that seems like oh he must be fine he he loves the attention maybe he just doesn't know any better i don't know like also on the inverse too because i've recently started dabbling into rachel's podcast so it's like she's coming forward with a bunch of like his tactics and how she was treated by him while she was in a facility and him trying to get her

out and saying that she's being selfish by staying in there and not coming back to the show. So I'm like, you have all of these like conflicting moments in timelines to where it's like, I don't know what to think. But again, I don't bravo to question somebody's mental stability yeah speaking of of rachel i actually you know we had tom on the show yes and i thought to myself you know it would be really interesting because that my whole premise of having tom sandoval on we we were happy to have sports as well was to like check in where are you now he him talking about this growth he wanted to do he was committed to and that was the goal of the interview which we all know what happened and the response and the fallout like tom didn't pass the test so to speak you know in

terms of oh maybe maybe there hasn't been much growth so i thought to myself what about rachel a lot of people have written in, you got to have Rachel on. I've tried to have her on a few times, but then I thought to myself, that would be something. What if Rachel could do what Tom Sandoval couldn't? Come on this show, answer some direct questions about what they've learned. Right now she has her own thing and she's telling her own story without being questioned at all you know she has i think like a producer like throwing her like some leading questions to help like drive the conversation but like you know there are things that she is saying that's kind of like i don't know like are you really taking

accountability or you know as is tom sandoval the easy target because no one's there to come to his defense i think it'd be a huge opportunity for rachel to come on this show and to deliver an interview that tom couldn't to really separate herself from the scandal i've reached out to the her team i don't honestly don't know if they're relaying the information to her oh interesting they're just not even telling her i don't know i mean i just i know how i heart is. I think she went from being influenced by Vanderpump producers to being influenced by the people helping her produce her show. Rachel, if you're out there and I wouldn't maybe maybe she just doesn't want to do. We have been very critical of her, so I can understand why she wouldn't want to come on here and do this interview. But if you're out there, Rachel, and you're up for it, I think it could be big for you.

I think she would really separate herself to come on here and do this interview. But if you're out there, Rachel, and you're up for it, I think it could be big for you. I think she would really separate herself to come on here and show a lot of growth. And it's not like we're asking that hard a question. It's just kind of like, where are you now? What do you think about that? I might challenge her on a couple of things. A couple of things. I do, the dog.

I do feel like for all of Rachel's sins, what she did to Graham is the worst. Yeah. Yeah. And she addressed that. My understanding, correct me if I'm wrong, is that she basically said that James trained Graham to be some sort of devil dog. Yeah. Didn't stop him from biting, trained him to bite.

I don't know. Graham was a biter. As an owner of a Labrador they when they're young they nip they they bite a little bit it was playfully they bite i don't know if that's what graham's doing but why didn't she call up james well she gave this dog away and ended up in a shelter unfor i'm sorry you have i i i need answers more than what she gave us because right now that is there is a is a dog owner where's your heart where where is your empathy they have dog trainers like just give him give graham back to james it's so easy it seems petty not to it is kind of unforgivable of all the things of all

the things she did because it's a life yeah it's a dog's life it's a life it could have and if it weren't for lisa vanderpump's foundation graham might not be with us today which is a wild set of coincidences that graham actually got rescued and ended up with lisa vanderpump you know i mean i i do have to say that i have a lot of compassion for rachel um i actually so i was there the night that Scandaval broke. That's right. You were. Yes, yes, yes. So I was on Watch What Happens Live. You were the bartender. I was the bartender. I was drinking spicy margaritas.

I love that. And I was so excited because Vanderpump Rules is my everything. I love the show. And I was like, oh my God, great. Sheena and Raquel, it's going to be awesome. So really excited. It's so fun. The environment's super up. But in the studio, do you guys remember when Andy asks a question about who's the cutest, Tom Sandoval or Schwartz? Oh, yeah. Schwartz is, yeah. I actually agree with that. But in the studio, when Raquel answered Sandoval, In the studio, when Raquel answered Sandoval, there was like this weird energy shift.

Like everyone was like, oh, huh. Because we don't know any of that. When we're watching the show, all we think is short, short, short. And I even got asked a question by Andy about, you know, was Raquel stepping out of lines with Schwartz because of Katie? So it was like a completely different thing. And so after the show, I went backstage and, you know, I'm like hawking my book. I'm giving it to like Sheena. She's so nice, so kind. And I go into Raquel's dressing room to give her my book. And this is a little bit of context about why you need this to understand what happens next. But my book is all about how do you recover your identity after you lose something?

You know, for me, it was a big layoff, other people, relationships. What do you what are the practical steps you can use to get back your identity and claim your agency? And it says all of that on the back cover. And it says, you know, it was blurbed by Glennon Doyle, who's this huge self-help kind of guru type person. And so she reads the back cover and she just loses it she just starts crying really yeah and i i didn't know her at all i'm just a stranger who came in with a self-help book and she reads it and just loses it and this is before right before this is march 1st this is like hours like maybe an hour before she's with sheena and then the restraining order this is like right before and i you know i don't know

what to say i don't know her and i don't know any nobody knows about scandival right so i just assume that this is about james who's one of my least favorite ever of all of reality tv so i just start saying weird things, like trying to comfort her. I'm like, yeah, James is terrible. You've been through so much. But the storyline at that point in Vanderpump Rules was Raquel is finding her identity.

It was between that and, or is she being shady with Schwartz? That's sort of where we were. So I had a lot of compassion. I'm like, oh my God, she's trying to find herself. She's so vulnerable. She's breaking down. And then I find out everything else a lot of compassion i'm like oh my god she's trying to find herself she's so vulnerable she's breaking down um and then i find out everything else and i realize oh my god she she must have

just found out or something like that but i do have compassion for her that this has obviously been hard oh i have a i have a ton of compassion for her in the sense that like i you know i have compassion for sandoval in the sense that like he fucked up what he's had to deal with the fallout has been brutal and i think we continue to be critical critical of sandoval because it just does not it's not registering with him the accountability he just kind of needs to take to show you know like again tom's been like the poster child for anyone who's ever cheated and things like that. But like the conversation I've had to him have had with him online and offline, which is like, listen, are you safe to be in a relationship going

forward? You know, like when I asked, would you set up your friend with the woman? It's just more like, listen, like maybe you're not a bad guy like you know you see in the movies where like you're not gonna kill someone but like it would be dangerous for a friend of you to say hey i know this great guy named tom sandoval you should date because right now you look like someone who's a victim of the moment and that you don't know how to set a boundary and no you don't know how to say no and that could be dangerous for someone who falls in love with your charisma and all these things you might bring to the table, despite what people think. And with Raquel, I have a lot of compassion for her. She probably was influenced by not only Tom Sandoval, but the Bravo world in general.

But she is still an adult. And she still has to take accountability for her actions. And what I kind of say today is she doesn't keep getting to blame Tom. I'm exhausted with her. I don't even really give a shit about her stories about Tom Sandoval anymore. I might be the only one. I'm sure she's getting clicks. But I just, I really don't care about more tea that happened between her and Tom that she wasn't willing to share then, but she's willing to share now because Tom's more, even more unlikable. What I care from Raquel is what have you used from this experience?

Did you read Tara's book? You know what I'm saying? Where you went to therapy, where are you now? You know, are you someone who can learn from this lesson? How are you setting boundaries? How are you, are you a better friend? Are you a better partner? You know, I'm curious about that with Rachel. And I still don't know if we really have answers when it comes to that. I think she should be on your show. I think so, too. Watching the Schwartz and Sandoval, what I really liked about you and all of that was you were being fair and if not charitable, because you gave Tom so many chances just to be accountable. If Tom just said, instead of blaming their long relationship, not having sex, blaming all these outside factors,

if he just said, oh man, I'm so sorry. I really did mess up. I'm trying to be better and then shut up. I think everyone would forgive Tom. We'd all move on. But it's an insistence that it's other people and it's other things and he's being called out and it's unfair.

That's the issue. And I think if Rachel's listening, she totally should come on because that's all anyone wants to hear is that she's sorry. That's really it. And then I think people will move on. And hear her articulate an understanding and some type of growth. I think people went into this

season of Vanderpump anticipating forgiving Tom Sandoval. I still think he's a piece of shit, but like most Vanderpump fans, like Jax Taylor, eh, it was in the past or whatever. People are quick to forgive these reality TV stars. It's no fun hating on the same person forever. So I think most people went in anticipating a redemption of Tom Sandoval and it just has failed miserably because he just clearly seems so resistant to demonstrating that growth. But I do think people were willing and wanting to give him that opportunity. It just hasn't landed. I mean, he's done everything wrong. I mean, the 23-year-old publicist who's just goading.

I mean, where's Riley in all this? What happened to Riley? Riley needs a publicist. Absolutely. I mean, he's just you know, what I thought about was if you guys remember the comedian Louis C.K. Yeah. So I used to work at Comedy Central. I'm a huge comedy nerd. Louis C.K. was my favorite comedian of all time. Same. Right. And then he has these charges or accusations about sexual misconduct. If he had just said, I'm so sorry, I really did mess up. I'm going to go learn my lesson. I'm going to come back. I would have been his number one fan again. But what he did was he sent out like, oh, well, it's actually this other thing i'm sorry but blah blah blah it's when you blame other people for why you made a mistake nobody buys that nobody wants to hear it it's the i'm sorry but that's never gonna get you anywhere it's like don't even say anything just i'm sorry period exactly and tom just someone needs to say stop talking say i'm sorry stop talking riley if you're listening what do we make of sheena the the sheena and lala conversation uh and even in the after like the whole like sheena trying to get back with tom and lala like lala is like on the fence between trying to criticize ari, like the living situation.

What do we, what do we make of that? Yeah. I mean, basically Lala was like basically saying to, to James in the after show, I don't know if you guys watched it, but it was like,

she was basically saying like, Ariana doesn't get to live with Tom and then tell people you don't get to hang out with this person. I feel like those things aren't the same. Like, I'm sorry. Like it's easy for her to say that because getting out. I feel like those things aren't the same. Like, I'm sorry. Like, it's easy for her to say that because getting out of her relationship, she didn't own the house. She can just pick up and move.

And obviously she's dealing with other legal stuff. But I'm also like, yes, is Ariana staying in the house and not sell it? Like, is that petty? Absolutely. But at the same time, I'm like, it's not like she's sitting here having kumbaya circles with Tom in the living room.

And that is like, you guys can't hang out with him, but I can. Yeah, she's not hanging out with him. That's not what's happening here. And I also don't think that Ariana, like we're talking about enforcing a boundary. That's all this is. And Ariana seems to be willing to do that. And she is saying, I don't want him in my life, both directly and indirectly. And if you are someone who does, no offense, then I can no longer have you in my

life because this is a boundary I'm going to enforce and I'm going to take no prisoners. And it's not personal, but this is for my own mental health. I got nothing wrong with that. And just because you don't like a boundary someone's willing to set and how far they're willing to go to enforce it, she's not saying don't be friends with them. She's saying if you're going to be friends with them, then I can't be friends with you. And that's called being an adult. Yeah, but Lala did the same thing. And that's why it's funny because she says that she's like, I would in the after show,

she's like, I wouldn't tell you to not hang out with Randall. And I was like, you literally had an entire episode going after Schwartz for hanging out with Randall. And if you did say don't hang out with Randall, you're not wrong. You would be entitled to do that. A thousand percent. It's your ex-husband who you introduced to all of these people who is now you know it's it's a gross legal battle between you guys i completely and there's lawyers involved so it's like it definitely makes sense but there's also i think lawyers involved going

on between ariana and tom so i'm like at the end of the day you can make a stance but like you don't get to sit there and be like well mine was different because it's like, no, no, no. You did the exact same thing. The exact same thing. Which, by the way, is understandable. A thousand percent. You know, I wouldn't want if I was leaving a relationship and it ended as poorly as, you know, Tom and Ariana's did. I wouldn't want my best friends hanging out with him.

I wouldn't want that energy. I wouldn't want to know. And you're totally right. It's Ariana's right to be to set boundaries. I think staying in the house is deeply weird. It's a weird move, petty choice, but she's allowed to make it. That is her choice to make. And, you know, one thing I was remembering back to, do you remember the season where the storyline was all about Ariana's mental health and how depressed she was? Yep. That's that is rubbing me the wrong way in this current edit, which is, oh, I don't believe Tom is depressed.

That's not great. That was a whole season of her depression and buying into it. I don't want Bravo to touch mental health anymore. Yeah. It's too serious. No, I have a big issue when they do that shit. And then there are fake therapy sessions. And they're pretending they care about mental health all while exposing mental health.

I couldn't agree more with you. Just stop fucking touching it. Stop having fake therapy sessions. A real therapist can't come on a TV show and conduct a therapy session. So stop fucking doing it. They're literally using therapy as scenes to like, you know, they call them like, they have different names for them, but they're like-

Confessional? Well, not the confessionals, but like there are certain scenes, like on The Bachelor, for example, when you have all the girls sitting on a couch, they call them girl chants and man chants in Bachelor World. What they really are is like forwarding the scene to the, you know, it's narrating to the audience what we're, you

know, bringing people up to speed who maybe didn't watch last episode and kind of leading us into what's going to happen next. That's the point of the scene. Like it serves its purpose. So these therapy sessions that Bravo has on the variety of the shows, that's why they're doing it. It serves its purpose. So these therapy sessions that Bravo has on the variety of the shows, that's why they're doing it. It's, well, Jax will come in or Tom to be like, oh, so this happened and this happened, blah, blah, blah. They're catching you up to speed and they're mocking therapy while doing it. It's highly dangerous for anyone dealing with mental health or suicidal thoughts. I just don't think Bravo's equipped to handle these topics. It's just, it's so dangerous for people actually experiencing these things.

Yeah. And if they're, you know, if it's really going on, I don't think, I don't think Tom should be filming. No, he should be in. If that's what, if that, if it's that concerning. I mean, like stepping back, what we're talking about is a threat to someone's life. Yeah. You know, that is the most serious thing possible.

It would be so reckless, so irresponsible of Bravo. I mean, actually, I'll just say it is reckless and it is irresponsible to be making therapy and mental health entertainment. Because guess what? It's also like a bad from my TV background. It's a bad TV look because we, the audience, are so confused. background. It's a bad TV look because we, the audience, are so confused. I'm not enjoying a conversation about Tom Sandoval and possibly suicide. I'm not enjoying any of that. And it feels weird and inauthentic, so I also bump on it. So it's not good entertainment. It's a really bad message and a bad look. I really wonder why. Do you have any insight on like why they would

be going in this direction? I think Bravo has trapped themselves in a spot where every last season for like Beverly Hills and for Vanderpump Rules has been so volatile and toxic with like people fleeing the FBI, like legal court cases happening, people cheating, like couples breaking up. I think they've trapped themselves in this point where they're like, we need to rebrand or not rebrand, but like take a different angle with our talent. And they've taken this like therapy angle, which is like a way of them cleaning up all of these like loose ends of like really toxic situations. That it seems more meaningful and like Bravo's in touch. And I love Bravo.

This is my favorite. So we love Bravo, too. And like, yeah. And I think to that point, I think you're seeing a lot of care. I mean, Vanderpump has become a show of who's matured and who hasn't, you know, and through maturity, a lot of people have jumped into therapy and like, that's great that we're talking about it and bring an awareness to it and normalizing it. But yes, there's a difference between normalizing it and then using it as part of your content and, and, and, and mocking it essentially. Yeah. I mean, especially with like

Beverly Hills, it's like almost every single episode has two therapy sessions. Yeah. So it's like it's an oversaturation at this point. I think speaking of boundaries and, you know, all that kind of stuff, we could talk about Kyle and Dorit's text exchange. The Beverly Hills Housewife finale. The episode itself is. It was better than the rest.

Like there's more that happened. I mean, they finally talked about splitting up with kyle and mauricio which in my opinion that's been been said like we've all known about this yeah they've been serious thoughts yeah no i i my issue that i had with this episode was that we spent an entire season avoiding conversations about marriage and like she she's not she didn't have to give us anything okay and i agree with that that take but at the same time if you're gonna spend an entire season knowing that that is the hot topic that everybody's waiting for and then you give us 20

minutes of an episode and then the next 30 minutes is you breaking the news to your family like it felt kind of gross to me like it felt a a little raw. I was like, this is, I think this is a moment for your family to discuss this. Not so much like bringing all of America in and being like, oh, we'll watch my kids cry and the sympathy while, where I'm like, you guys have this conversation and maybe Mauricio and Kyle sit down on a couch

and have a conversation with the camera. They're also, we're seeing it as a preview to Mauricio's Beverly Hills, Hills real estate show on Netflix. So it's like, if you didn't see the Netflix watermark, you would have thought this was another episode of Housewives. A show about real estate. Yeah. And also Kyle Richards never appeared in the other show. So she appears now in the other show.

Oh, in this next season? She's teased in clips with sellingly hills or whatever it's called so yeah i mean it's it's it seems like they're leveraging their relationship for you know clicks views i felt really bad for her daughter because you could tell that she didn't want to cry on camera and then you know when you're about to cry and then somebody really close to you like your mom will be like what's wrong yeah and you just can't control it that lump in your throat just gives in and you lose it you could tell that that's what happened with her daughter and i just felt so bad for her because she like hid into kyle and she just didn't want to be on camera you know another scene this episode that made like the involvement of kids seem kind of awkward was with sutton and it

was like a harmless conversation. It was her and her daughter, but you could tell her daughter was like, I don't want to be here. And she was just like, yes, mom, sure. It was a nothing conversation. It was fine. It was pleasant. But it was like, you realize that she's doing a scene with her daughter.

Because they are. That's the show. These women get together together and they do these scenes that are not scripted but you know their structure around okay you guys are gonna talk about this and let's see where it goes i thought it was kind of empowering though that something was saying like i'm a wealthy woman but i want my kids to see more than just the intent of the conversation i'm not criticizing like the topic or what it was or whether even landed but just knowing how these shows are made and just having the awareness of that she had to

do a scene with her daughter and her daughter was like yeah yeah yeah mom sure it was just kind of awkward you know she's just like an awkward child because that being said like is she though or is she someone who doesn't have the experience she's appeared on the show before and she's i mean makes commentary but she doesn't say much my take is that she's in college so i think it's more of like like stay clean kind of vibe when you're on tv but then that being said son posted a picture of her daughter in the diamonds it was like this is what i love to see so i thought it was empowering that she brought her daughter to like this expensive jewelry experience and was like, you put them on. Like you feel what this feels like.

It's just weird to see. You know, it's not like when Garcelle's at the beach with her son. Yeah. It's not as if they went to the beach, had a day and all of a sudden like some sort of drone showed up and said, oh my God, you guys are talking about your relationship. Let's get this on camera. You know what I'm saying? Like that's not how it goes down. You know, they have to make a show. It just becomes a little more on the nose when the kids are involved, realizing that these kids are doing scenes with their

parents. I mean, particularly the divorce. If you I don't know if your parents have been divorced. That conversation where my parents told me they were getting divorced was one of the absolute worst moments of my entire life. I was 12 and I can still remember it like it was yesterday. That's like a lifetime moment. That's like beyond the TV show that changes the trajectory of everything. So to capture it on TV, like I don't even I don't want to see that. You know, I don't want to be a part of that moment. And also to like kind of deny it so hard. Like remember the dinner, the infamous Denise Richards dinner? Yeah. Like where it's like she goes so hard on Garcelle and Sutton for even bringing it up or speculating about a ring.

And it means my husband's cheating. Nobody said that. Nobody said that. But we're just asking the change in your life choices. It's very drastic. And is there something behind that? And she like denies, denies, denies and almost attacks the other women being like, I can't believe you would bring this up and you're embarrassing me. You should have done this off camera, whatever. said to put such a personal moment that doesn't just affect you and mauricio this affects your children's lives and now it's forever captured on film like that's something where i'm like i wouldn't want to be cruising through the uh through channels or something and all of a sudden oh there's me being told that my parents are getting a divorce yeah you know when you really think of it that way it's like it's a choice it's a Speaking of a choice, a lot of the conversation going on this weekend was the text revelation between Kyle and Dorit, where Dorit released text messages from Kyle, alleging that Kyle reached out to Dorit right before the filming of the reunion, which Dorit apparently released, kind of suggesting that Kai was being manipulative, trying to kind of control her narrative going into the reunion.

And I think the big question is, is around like, you know, is that shady? Is it not? I mean, releasing private text is a choice. I think there's a time and a place for it. It's not one that I personally in my life respect. But at the same time, if we're talking about reality television, like it's messy. It's messy. And I think Dorit and Kyle's friendship has had a lot of hardships in the last year and a half, the last two seasons. And I'm like, if anything, this is like kind of laying into what the next season is probably going to be is going to be Dorit versus Kyle. Because I'm like, that is a fallout. And if you do that to me you you exploit my messages we're not friends so the only time where I feel like it's appropriate is in a a public setting where one public figure

is putting out a false narrative about another public figure and if that public figure has receipts then i you know and again with except i don't even even then i don't think i think the devil's in the details uh then i think it's worth a conversation we've done it i've done it you know when a narrative about uh well actually it was more natalie but we we've done it when there was a narrative about uh this show or me i was like well that. You know, here's what really went down. Yeah. That being said, you're always going to get criticism. And we got criticism because it is a choice. It is a violation of what is assumed to be between two people that you're putting out

publicly. And I think it is always deserving of some kind of criticism. And if you do do it, you're definitely drawing a line in the sand. You're saying, yeah, we're not cool. And I think if you do it, you have to expect the other person to want to cut you out of any type of circle of trust or any type of communication. Because why would you ever reach out to someone again and share them anything knowing that they might just go out and make that public information. Well, this is like a common format with reunions and like housewives in general, where the morning of the reunion or days leading up to the reunion, there'll be text messages to try to silence them. Right. So that's where Dorit was like, I am being manipulated because this was before they filmed the reunion. This happens.

But to your point, this happens with friends. This happens, I'm sure, on every Bachelor tell-all or Love is Blind reunion. There's always going to be like, hey, man, just checking in, making sure you're cool. That's kind of normal. By the way, can we do a little bit of a dramatic reading of the text messages? Who wants to? Dattara and Sierra, maybe? Yeah, it's in the Beverly Hills section. I have them as well. Kyle, Texas, Dorit. Yeah, it's in the Beverly Hills section. I have them as well. Kyle, Texas, Dorit.

Hi, I've been trying to reach out because I know we are in a weird place and it really bothers me. And it's not even on the show. I wanted to explain where I'm at and why I have been distanced, but my hands were tied. Of course, some interview comments hurt my feelings and created more issues for me, but I'm used to that and could get past it in time. I also reminded myself that you didn't know what I was going through with Mo at the time for most of the remarks. But then I heard some things that you said about me off camera that hurt me deeply, and I wasn't even able to say what I heard or from whom. It was one of those things where I wish I just didn't know it all because I wasn't able to share and yet I was left hurt and couldn't. And it goes on. I couldn't even try to work through it with you. And I know you will be frustrated and want to know what and who said it,

but I can't. It's as frustrating to me as it will be to you. Trust me. I have gone through such a hard time, Dorit. I've been in so much pain and I can't tell you. Never have I felt so low. And I know you are also going through a hard time. Normally, I would have reached out to check on you, but I was hurt and very depressed. I've spent 30 years with Mo, married 28, and I have no idea how to live without him or how to navigate through life on my own because I have so much on my plate for tomorrow and I have no idea how to live without him or how to navigate through life on my own because I have so much on my plate for tomorrow and I know you do too. I love you, PK, and your kids so much. I've been thinking about you a lot and hoping you aren't struggling too much.

I don't want to lose someone in my life over a TV show. They don't even know we're going through a hard time, so I don't see the need to bring it up here. I should have said something sooner, but I honestly haven't been strong enough. But relationships and you are more important to me than the real housewives of Beverly Hills, and I don't feel like quote-unquote bringing it up for our expense, especially when we have enough battles to handle as it is. Anyway, I would like to sit down and talk after we get through tomorrow.

Maybe have lunch or dinner when you can. If you want to talk before tomorrow, I am around. I would give anything not to go and have to do this. I don't know how much longer I can do this show. It's so toxic and creates so much anxiety for me. Anyway, let me know if you want to talk. You have thoughts, Sierra. To me, I'm thinking like,

okay, that's a pretty normal message to send a friend. I don't know. And maybe this is like years and years of watching Housewives, but it's just like, it's funny to me that Kyle comes after Lisa Vanderpump on a regular about controlling a narrative and being Bobby Fisher playing

chestnut checkers. And it's like you're doing exactly that, because if this was genuine, this what you've had plenty of downtime to reach out to Doreen, but you're reaching out to her the day before the reunion in hopes of silencing her based off of what you two are going through. And I'm like, I don't even think that that's a big point of contention on the show right now. What if Kyle added maybe even at the reunion or on her Instagram or somewhere, and said, after further reflection, now going through what I'm going through now, I have more empathy for Lisa Vanderpump. I regret some of my comments towards her and the accusations about controlling.

Of course, Kyle is trying to control the narrative. But she is a human being talking about a 30-year relationship and a divorce. And yes, I know they sent him for housewives. But she's not talking about Mo. She's saying, you don't know what Mo and I have been through, but I just don't need one more thing being brought up on this stage. Yeah, she is definitely trying to, sure, control her narrative. And she is trying to make sure the things that she's not comfortable being discourse. That's obviously what's going on. But on a human level, I get where she's coming from. Maybe she's being a hypocrite.

wonder where I'm like with the end of the show being about the disintegration of her marriage I'm like why would what's going on between you and Dorit that you felt like you needed to put a pause on because I don't think any of us were questioning the relationship there so there's clearly something that's either gone on or it's happened that she's trying to maybe maybe so maybe there are elements of this friendship that isn't part of the tv show that we don't know and maybe there were elements of this very long text that had to do with controlling the narrative about the reunion they're about to film. But also maybe it was friend to friend, let's get dinner and drinks. And like, I miss you, friend. And I know this show has come between us a little bit, but maybe it wasn't just about the show and just about controlling the narrative. I mean, like when I

was on The Bachelorette, I got my heart broken a couple of times. I had thoughts and feelings about how I was treated, how I was handled by the person who was the lead. And then I became The Bachelor. And instantly I was like, oh, you know, I guess I have a little more empathy for the situation they were put in and how they handled things. Now, I tried to handle things differently based off how I was treated, but no one's perfect. But I definitely, once I lived that experience that they lived earlier to me, I was a lot more understanding of how they treated me, you know? And I had a lot more empathy, and I have since said that. But, like, maybe Kyle's just missing, for all the people who are calling her out for being a hypocrite, maybe she just needs to add that to the commentary.

Well, Kyle mocked LVP the last episode. I'm also, I'm with Sierra on this. I think that it is manipulative that she chose to send this to Dorit because it almost seemed like all these topics that she's talking about were brought up by Sutton and Garcelle and possibly Erica, if you want to argue that, but Dorit was just there. And then this whole season as it was airing, Kyle was

calling Dorit out, saying her confessionals were misleading of their relationship as a friendship. Like saying that she overplayed their friendship. So for her to send this to Dorit the night before, I think it's manipulative. I don't think it's manipulative. If it was manipulative, she would have like spun a different way to talk about it. But she's just asking. She's just like, hey, can you not talk about this? And then Dorit's an adult and she can choose. Actually, no, I am going to talk about it. She can choose what to do, whatever she wants. I do think it's very hypocritical, though.

I think for sure it's that. But I don't see anything sinister. I just don't get the sinister vibe. It's definitely a choice for Dorit to release these text messages. She is not. Kyle didn't come after Dorit. She's not spewing some sort of false narrative about Dorit. Dorit is not clearing her name with these text messages.

She's just like, hey, let's just make this part of the reunion. Like Dorit is being a great employee. To me, it's more manipulative that Dorit's releasing the text messages because to me, I think there's been speculation about Dorit's time on this show and whether maybe she's going to be wanted around for next season. And to me, this is a play by Dorit to ensure that they bring her back for next season. Relevancy.

For drama between her and Kyle. I mean, interesting context as well along the LVP line is that Kathy Hilton tried to silence Lisa Renna last season. And Kyle didn't defend Kathy at the reunion and that was where she was like like kathy was like if you're not going to defend me like we're not sisters so for then kyle to then

do the same thing that kathy did that she didn't defend her for is very like there's like a history of it and it's just like i don't think it's so much as like sinister or you know coming from a dark place i think it's more so kyle covering her ass where it's just like and by all means of course you you have that choice, but it's exactly what you said. Dorit has a choice to respond and Dorit doesn't have the strongest storyline. So I'm like,

if anything, you just gave her ammo the day before the reunion where I'm like, we don't even know if Dorit was going to bring any of this stuff up. I think it was dumb. That's the word I would use. A thousand percent. The whole situation. Cause she could have done this two weeks prior and,

and Dorit wouldn't have thought twice about it. Or not done it at all. It's if you don't want something talked about, you don't go out of your way to say, don't talk about this one topic. Don't bring attention to it.

Don't bring attention to it. What do we think of Dorit's reunion outfit? Oh my gosh. To me, that was a stronger choice than releasing text messages. That was a choice.

Yeah, and you see in the previews that they're all waiting on her too. Because they're all waiting on her too i don't feel like i'm in a position to create someone's style because who am i from someone who doesn't know what they're talking about it seems like people who do know what they're talking about might have an opinion about it so you had a good point it was giving real housewives of dubai it's just it was very themed themey and it doesn't go with anywhere that they went mary magdalene you know it doesn't

like is it easter like are we doing a runway version like i just yeah i don't i don't understand the choice at all i liked it though i like the style i just liked it she seemed very like calm and like elegant i don't know i do not like it mother teresa and red i just it just to me it goes with uh to read you know self-identifying herself as some sort of fashion like icon and she just buys expensive shit she's so loud about it that's the thing that really rubs me the wrong way is that i'm like we don't need to know we do know now that you're in chanel head to toe because it literally says it from head to toe and i'm like i don't know what's the the saying about like wealth where it's like like wealth whispers.

Yeah. Rich. I don't know. There's something about like rich is loud and wealth whispers. And I'm like, there's something that's just very like you really need us to know how wealthy you are. But it's like we know you're on the real housewives of Beverly Hills. And again, PK, he just like manages Boris George. Where is this money coming from? This is the greatest mystery of all.

How are they so rich? How? How? How? Like, where's the money coming from? I don't know. He's just like hiding out in England, hiding from his wife. 28 days. Like, he was in 38 days in London doing some sort of deal.

I mean, some, this is a little problematic, but some housewives have said that some robberies could have been strategic for write-offs. That is a possible explanation. But yeah, it's been a storyline forever. There are people who flaunt their money and it makes you wonder where they get their money. Yeah, to Sierra's point, people who have a lot of money

are usually a little bit more... Discreet about it. You don't have to wear head-to-toe Chanel to convince people that you're rich. Or that you're stylish. Yeah, and the style thing with Mianne Durie, it's always been like that. She's always been so brand conscious,

but without the brand, they're not that cool. Like, sorry, but if you took away that that's Chanel, that's like... It's a costume. If you take away the label, it's a costume.

Well, and then you have like Kathy Hilton who's in like slippers and then like something she found at the gas station. Like she's just wearing whatever. It's like Crystal and Durie on on the plane yes uh when Crystal's like my outfit's like nine nine dollars from TJ Maxx and you've got Dorit and like head to toe Chanel pajamas and it's like uh Crystal's married to one of the most successful like Disney animator like they have real wealth her family is so wealthy and she's and she's running her own companies

that seem to be highly successful coconut water like yeah we can check a few boxers and we can assume safely where their money's coming from a thousand percent uh and to read it's just like boy george must be like doing some sort of side business the swimsuit line remember the swimsuit i was gonna bring that up i was gonna say is that where the money's coming from no more i mean they had like a flash sale like a year or two ago because it was like everything's shutting down so i'm like she doesn't have a clothing line uh pk's like in and out of debt and i don't know what he actually does for a living and i don't know what she actually does for a living i think she did bridal as well and i

don't she did yeah i don't know if that's even still a thing but i know the swimsuit line is no more i wonder if she's the breadwinner because she's on the show like i wonder if that's like a main hole which i wouldn't think is a lot i was gonna say not enough yeah for i mean her outfit alone like that's an episode everything with the reet i don't you know i love the show they're all humans but everything with the reet it gives desperation. It's like, look at me. Look, I'm rich. Even this text message, like, I want to stay relevant. Like, I've never felt that Dorit was authentically there or doing anything other than trying to self-promote, which I know is a big part of all of this.

But do you think Dorit comes off as like a genuine, authentic person? No, I mean, when I started watching it, I was like, I really like Dorit. She seems nice and pleasant and like, you know. But yeah, she's not even good at like, I mean, I say that Anne-Marie too, but they're not even good at talking shit. You know, it's like you thought about this line for three days. Yeah. And now you're not in the moment. You're just not even good at being petty.

Yeah. Well, and Dorit was brought on the show to be like a good friend. Like she's always been a good friend of Kyle. She's always been the person that kind of has like a level head of advice to input during like fights. And that's where now that this is the drama, her friendship. Yeah. She has nothing else to say.

It's gone flat for me. Yeah. Yeah. It also wasn't the best season, I'm not going to lie. There was a whole lot of nothing that happened this season. Do we need a Cathy Hilton back?

Yeah, probably. Well, she makes an appearance at the reunion. Are some speculating that maybe this is the start of her coming back? I'm hoping. I hope so. Hunky Dory.

Hunky Dory. We got to get rid of Anne-Marie for sure. Absolutely. I think she is coming back. I think she's unfortunately coming back because she was at the People's Choice Awards with the cast. So I feel like she wouldn't have made that appearance if she didn't have like a pickup. But like, you know, all that stuff going on with her husband and she's just not a good

housewife. Hopefully they'll just have her on less, featured less. They already kind of didn't feature her. She was like a friend of with the full-time status. I thought she was a friend of until Justin was like, no, she's got a diamond. She's in the opening.

Yeah, I was like, oh, wow, you're right. I was like, there's people that have been friends of on the show for multiple years before they got their peach or their diamond

or apple whatever. You know, and I'm like, we've never even met this woman. She was introduced three episodes in. There's people that have also been like, they've demoted like halfway through the season so she just somehow stayed through who does she know yeah yeah who does she know well the reunion's

coming up and uh we will find out let's talk a little bit of traders before we get to bachelor uh don't forget traders is on every Thursday night at 9 p.m eastern available on peacock wherever you get Peacock. Also, spoiler alert. We're talking spoilers up through episode... Nine. Nine. It's really the season of Peter Weber. He's really dominating.

Yeah. Yeah. Do you think he goes home? I hope so. I hope not. You want him to go home? I don't. I don't like him.

Can we get rid of him? I'm a Phaedra lover, though, so that could be my downfall. No. Well, we do have Candy Burris on this week of Going Deeper. And ever since talking to Candy, I can't stand Phaedra. I like Phaedra less. She seems truly... That is true.

Well, even Kate, when she was recruited as a trader, was like, what have you been doing? What's your plan? I don't understand. Like, how do things get so bad? Yeah. It ends in the cliffhanger with them, you know, either going to get rid of Phaedra to the four,

four vote. The round table round table. I think that they're going to get rid of Peter. And I think that it's, it's just, I mean, you guys are all idiots. I don't exactly. I've lost all respect for the people who vote for me too.

For, for Peter. Who is the other housewife of a fashion line? Spring, summer, Sheree. Sheree. I mean, like to her credit, she's still on the show and she's not going anywhere because people just keep who's the other housewife of a fashion line? Spring, summer, Sheree. Sheree.

I mean, like to her credit, she's still on the show and she's not going anywhere because people just keep forgetting she's on the show. Yeah. But her vote was 100% simply vote, like supporting her housewife. It had nothing to do with anything else. And at this point in the game,

you're not playing the game. You're just like, you're just afraid to actually give a thought. Peter has outlined all the obvious reasons why he's not a traitor and the whole trap. faithfuls he's not a traitor but he's a traitor to the faithfuls and they're all just like yeah you're right he is annoying he is like last week he did try to get rid of somebody who it's just like yeah and we talked to peter you know and he acknowledged that maybe he kind of overplayed his hand and was a little too aggressive in his gameplay but yeah if they send peter home and it's down to mj who's definitely gonna send p Peter home. And MJ and Sandra, these are the game players.

They are the ones who respect the gamesmanship. So for her to act like, I mean, just say it. Just say, you know what? You're my biggest competition. I want you out. But don't sit there and pretend that you don't know that Phaedra is a traitor. I lost respect for your decision making. Yeah. And even CT was almost voted out.

CT came around. He came around, thankfully, but I was almost like, what? You were on the challenge. You were on Survivor. What are you people doing? You know, you can suss out liars.

Even a previous episode when somebody was calling out that Phaedra's never reactive the next morning after and i'm like that's a huge tell that like i would be sitting there watching either waiting for her to come in or being like she's over here like let me get some of that butter let me yeah you know and i'd be like that's weird because you could have died last night and you just don't care yeah yeah i'm like that would be the hugest hell ever and then uh who got killed last week with the eye where i'm just like kevin yeah where i'm like that would be the hugest hell ever and then uh who got killed last

week with the eye where i'm just like kevin kevin yeah where i'm like these are things that people that are getting eliminated are literally handing to you i mean the biggest one is just the fact that dan brought up vedra before he left why would he have done that it's so obvious it doesn't make any sense he obviously was trying to throw another traitor under the bus so that if they had voted her out, they would have been like, oh, yeah, you were right. Duh. Yeah. I'm holding on to hope that MJ is going to make the right decision. I say him, but I don't think she will agree with you.

Are you rooting for the traitors or the faithfuls? Because I'm rooting for the traitors, Loki. Oh, I'm rooting for the faithful. I want the traitors to win. I love that. But the traitors are Phaedra. And Kate. And Kate.

Now. But I don't care. And like Kate, you know, she's good TV, but I'm not rooting for her. I love Kate from Below Deck. So I am. I'm like, I'm interested to see because obviously Phaedra, if Phaedra's not chosen this week, then she's gone next week. So I'm like, I'm curious as to see what the next move is going to be with recruiting a

trader. And it's like, how many people are left right how many more times do they get the opportunity to recruit someone until it ends until it ends yeah yeah I don't I don't know so that's where I'm also like are we going to get down to it and it's only going to be like one trader versus four people we'll find out it's my first it's my first season watching it but it is is really hard I I've I've been anti-phedra ever since talking to candy well what did you think of phedra's comment when i think she said peter i don't need to kiss your rose it was a great fed line that she delivered wonderfully on i think yeah yeah it was good you don't think she came up with that well maybe she's a lawyer so i'm like she's really good that was words and her arguments that was Phaedra the professional TV maker she's good TV

she's an excellent TV maker and that was her making some great TV but she's gotta go in my book yeah I agree with you ever since the candy interview which you will all see on Thursday yeah I just I can't wait we'll see alright let's wrap it up with Bachelor we are

in the week before hometowns Joey is down to six ladies to me this is like the big thing to talk about is like for the first time, I think we're starting to get to know Joey a little more. Indirectly, because last week I posed the question, what do we really know about Joey? Nothing. He plays tennis. Tennis. We know a lot. He loves tennis. Good hair. I also, he didn't seem to get a haircut. He's tightening up the sides. He heard you. I don't know if he heard me or what.

He heard your Oompa Loompa comment. But the Oompa Loompa haircut seems to be gone. And he's even that much more good looking. He's so good looking. He's so handsome. We got to give him that for sure. What is this funny? Because like most of Bachelor Nation is,

I think they've just been starved for a pretty bachelor gotta give him that for sure what is this funny because like most of bachelor nation is i think they've just been starved for a pretty bachelor because this man can truly do no wrong right now everyone is just so excited that he's hot and he's likable and he's likable and he's like often teary-eyed and emotional which makes his eyes just that beautiful. Listen, Markle. I hate to be, you know, me doing me, but like this, I will say,

this episode, think about it. So now you're getting to the point of the season where you're down to people who he's gotten some real connections with. And we're hearing this whole time where Joey's

just like, I'm afraid this, no one's gonna get rejected. I'm afraid. It's like, what are people not rejecting him for? And this season,

like most seasons, but even so much more this season, has really been the season of trauma dumping. And, you know, every lady who talks to Joey telling this sad story. And Joey is receiving a lot of credit via the audience of being the good listener. Thank you for sharing. Good eye contact. Very empathetic. Very considerate.

You know, acknowledging those are valid feelings. But keep in mind, he is talking to most of these women. He doesn't know who they are. He has no emotional connection with. And he's not invested in them. He doesn't like them. So Joey has a self-awareness to be like, just listen. Just say these words.

Just be nice. You know. But now, now we're down to, now things are at stake for Joey, you know. And now it's really interesting to see Daisy and Maria can always, you can always, especially at this point in the season, really see where the contestants separate themselves. Because a lot of it's still the, like, I feel like I'm about to go home, just so you know I'm falling in love with you and then, oh, you gotta go.

But now, you know, people who are confident in their position where they're like, well, I don't know how I feel about you. You know? And you got Daisy and Maria both saying that. I thought it was really interesting, the conversation that Joey had with Maria. I was a bit confused because for the first time,

you really saw Joey kind of get irritated. Yeah. You know? And kind of frustrated. And we saw a couple of seasons ago with Clayton. Clayton was like peak how we can go wrong for The Bachelor, right? Yeah. In the sense that, yes, this is your love story. This is about you finding love.

And that's true. There is no one here on the show that is expected to get engaged other than Joey. That is a ton of pressure. It is hard. It is is difficult it is scary so i as a former basher i empathize with with joey i even empathize with clayton but we saw how clayton executed so poorly that you know he came across as selfish uh inconsiderate to these women's feelings all his actions were about this is my love story i need it's about me finding love and we saw how that went bad with clayton and i don't suspect the same thing to happen with joey i think he's far more in touch and a little bit more self-aware

uh than joey but we did get to see you know when he's maria's just like listen this is hard i'm developing feelings for you i'm having a hard time seeing you have this relationship with other women and this happens every season right and there's the whole like you know you signed up for a crowd and maria seemed to acknowledge like listen i'm not i'm not saying you're doing anything wrong i She's implying she knows what she signed up for. She's just stating the obvious and just communicating like, I'm struggling with what I knew I signed up for, but nevertheless still struggling with it. And Joey seems genuinely irritated. And this is where Joey, the bachelor in general, starts entering into dangerous water. And I'll be really curious how Joey handles it going forward, because it really lands poorly when the bachelor says things like, well, I just want you to know you could be the

one. And then Joey's, you can say Joey's expecting that to be good enough for any of the women to hear. You could be the one. I want you to know that. I want you to feel confident about that. to know that i want you to feel confident about that and the women are like what like yeah like i know i'm here i'm here nothing's changed and he's like annoyed that anyone he says that to is not being like oh yeah no thank you you know and you're seeing for the first time a lack of empathy from joey and a frustration about how the rest of the women are going to conduct themselves going forward. Cause it gets messier because now it really is not just Joey's love story. It is Daisy's love story. It is Maria's love story. It's Kelsey, Kelsey's love story, Rachel's love story. These women have been kind of going to battle with each other and they've

been vulnerable and they, you know, they're, they're poor, you know, they're now they're about to bring their families into the mix. People who didn't sign up for a TV show, you know, that's, that's vulnerable. That's, that's personal. And it'll be really interesting how Joey handles that because I don't know, I saw a guy who got a little annoyed, a frustrated i felt like i got to know joey a little bit more and i yeah i'm sure he's a great guy but you know up into this point it's just been joey the angel joey the listener joey the tennis player joey can do no wrong and now i'm seeing joey the i could i saw joey the asshole a little bit well i mean not the i didn't think he was asshole but i saw i saw the crack in the army i saw a guy who are we talking about maria's

blow up her blow up or like her like her whole like emotional state meltdown it was a little yeah i mean her yeah sure her struggling with her the the moment and i i guess me on the opposite end was that i'm like it is what you signed up for but at the same time i'm like you're sitting here saying things to him that he can't he can't respond back to. He can't say, I'm going to choose you at the end of this. He can't say, I'm going to leave the show now and walk away with you. He can't say, I love you. He can't say, I love you. He can't reassure you in the way that you're asking him to. So for me, what bothered me with her was her getting up in the middle of it and then going and crying and then realizing that he wasn't going to come follow her so then she comes back and is like i'm sorry i just really let that moment get the

best of me and i was like no no you didn't get the reaction you wanted but you were never intending on leaving you were hoping he was gonna call cameras down you're the one and and because you did this you forced my hand and that's not what happened and that's why i didn't read it as an asshole move because my i don't yeah maybe i's why I didn't read it as an asshole move. Yeah. Because my read. Yeah. Maybe I should articulate. I don't think it was an asshole move. I'm just saying I saw we all can be assholes to be clear.

I'm not like we all have a bad day. We can all handle a situation poorly. We can all like be so fixated on our emotional needs that we don't acknowledge other people's. That's all I'm saying. And up until this point, Joey's just been like the king of empathy, you know, and understanding. But for the first time this season, we've seen Joey have to have a conversation where,

again, my point is all these other women who are like, here, let me tell you my sad story, that he is hearing something important to these women emotionally that has nothing to do with him. So all he has to do is listen and empathize. And now for the first time, we're seeing one of these women, whether we agree with how they've handled it or you make all these incredibly valid points, Sierra. It's just that now Joey is the subject of this emotional problem that one of the women is handling.

And we're now seeing Joey handle it in a different way. And it's just him getting frustrated that, you know, Daisy or Maria or Chelsea isn't hearing him. And you hear everything that Joey's saying. It's like, this is my love story and I'm having a hard time and you put yourself in my shoes. And you're right. He's limited to all those things. But a couple of weeks ago, it was, these feelings are valid. I understand what you're doing. And we did not hear in that moment from Joey, listen, I've been in your shoes before. It's totally hard. These are valid. I get what you're saying. I get it. I get it. I get it. I get you have every reason to feel this way. He's not saying that. He's like, well, sorry, are you leaving?

I think you just changed my mind actually about the reading of that whole thing, because I was kind of like, oh, Maria, like it's kind of reckless to come in with a bunch of emotion, like an emotional meltdown. And you don't have really even a point. I didn't even know what she wanted out of that conversation, frankly. It was unclear. She didn't know. I think she was very confused, feeling a lot of emotion. She was the passion passenger to her emotions, the emotions with the driver. But now hearing you say this, it actually, I'm a little bit like, oh, yeah, you know what? Joey didn't say, oh, that's valid. I've been in the sense of like why is all of a sudden joey's like are you i don't i didn't her getting up felt weird too there it just felt like there's some piece that we didn't see yeah and that's entirely possible i feel like i understand joey's position

specifically with maria i love maria but it's like every second she's like kind of doing this power play where she's like i'm gonna leave i'm gonna leave i may not like you like i'm kind of questioning our love so it's kind of like jo Joey keeps saying like you're in the final rounds, but she's using this as a way to be like, but I want you to say yes to me right this second, which is what Sarah was saying. Yeah. And my,

and my empathy, I think for Joey in that situation is also that he's made it very clear to all of these women to us over and over again. His biggest fear is to get to the end of this and the woman not choose him back. Yeah. And so I'm like, with that being said, you dangling this idea of you leaving when you know you're a top contender. It to me, it's like power play versus like where I'm like, you are playing on his emotions. And I can say this from personal experience. You don't care about being a top contender. And that's what I'm saying. Joey is talking to these women as if like,

hey, you're top four. Good job. You're top four. No, it's like, are you going to pick me? Are we going to get engaged? Do you love me? Am I your person? Because at this point in the show, the people who are still left, if they are serious about them, and most of them are, I mean, if you're in it this far, you've been in the bubble. You are invested. And you're not thinking about TV. You're not thinking about TV. You're not thinking about top four. You're like, holy shit, I can't believe I signed up for the show and I love this person. I can't believe I'm about to introduce my parents. Holy shit, I actually might get engaged. And for Joey to use bachelor language, and Joey, when he was talking to Maria, was using bachelor language, just like Clayton did, which is like, hey, listen,

you're one of the top ones. You're a finalist. Good job. You know, if you are thinking you could get engaged with this man in three weeks, you don't give a fuck about being top, whatever the fuck it's like, am I, am I the person or am, am I not? You are asking me to emotionally go there. You're asking me to like, he said to Chelsea last week, say it with your chest. I'm falling in love with you. Don't hide behind your, the camera, say it loud your chest. I'm falling in love with you. Don't hide behind the camera. Say it loud and proud because you know what? You might be my runner up and good for you. You know?

Kelsey. Kelsey. Kelsey, Chelsea. Fuck, I can't. But you get what I'm saying? He is using bachelor language as if these women should be grateful for being finalists. And it also says to me, Joey never had a connection with charity because Joey is having a harder time empathizing with where these women are, because I don't think

Joey ever thought for a second he was going to end up with charity. I don't think he ever had his heart broken. And that's no criticism. I mean, there's been plenty of people who have been finalists. I know you're not going to pick me, but I can say this as someone who has been heartbroken on that show, whether it was delusion or reality, like you have a lot more empathy for how you bring your finalists along. And the way Joey talked to Maria is a guy who didn't have his heart broken on the show and is kind of expecting these women to be grateful for being finalists. Well, what did you think about him pulling her aside before giving out all the roses in the middle of the rose ceremony? I don't know. TV. You know, why are we canceling a cocktail party if you do have conversations? Rachel kind of said that. You cancel cocktail parties for drama.

You know, it's always like, oh, we have some. It's always one or two people. It's like, I really need this time with Joy and then it gets canceled and jesse comes along oh the person you want me to see you know like this is great you know it's like it's it's just it's for tv and cocktail parties are just for that they have them because they're great for drama and you know and usually a show is like we already have enough you know when they're making a show you know they they're storybooking their show as it's being written and you know it's like okay you know we got this we got that we're good we don't need a cocktail party we're good with the drama so it to me it was all that was just them making tv and that was joey doing his job i don't think joy would have handled that way if it was totally

up to him so i think he was just being a good team player so then on the inverse because like right now i'm kind of rooting for daisy where i'm like i like how daisy doesn't seem like she's been fully enveloped in the bubble per se that i'm like i like that she sat him down and was like hey in this period of time like i like you a lot i just don't know if i'm there yet but do you think that that helps or hinders for the actual experience of the bachelor like do you think that she's gonna end up changing her mind and being like i am falling in love with you or like probably i thought daisy did what maria didn't do which is like she she did it in a way that didn't make her come across as well you know what you signed up for yeah and you know like are

you doing it for power or you know where days is like i'm just keeping it real like i've i've only been here for a few weeks and i'm evolving my feelings and i i'm just being honest i know a lot of my ladies here are being like i love you and i'm just not there yet yeah you know whether that whether she's doing it as a power move or not i think i she it comes across as authentic it comes up genuine yeah i really in that moment i i had a lot of respect for her that she wasn't just doing it to stay one more week yeah you know she wanted to be real with him and the way she did it was like kind yeah you know she was really knew what she wanted to say knew why she was saying it whereas i just felt like

maria was just sort of like a whirlwind of emotion you know but I really did respect Daisy and now I think I'm rooting for her Daisy's always I want Daisy not to win because I think I want to see her

as the bachelorette yeah that'd be great I love her she's really great they got some good choices I think Maria would be a really fun season though

I think she would get a lot of the men to potentially be dramatic in the best possible way. Oh, yeah. It would be a fun season for sure. I think Kelsey would be good, too. I think Daisy and Maria have kind of dominated the airtime, but I feel like Kelsey has good bachelorette potential. And we keep hearing about the ending and how it's never happened before we'll we'll we'll see if we've been led astray or that's true but i think we until we know about this ending i mean that's going to play a huge role into who the next

bachelorette was i mean we didn't no one people forgot that becca kufrin was on the show even though she was ari's front runner and then all of a sudden that ending iufrin was on the show even though she was Ari's front runner and then all of a sudden that ending I mean she was the only choice for Bachelorette given how things played out on that season so like you know we keep hearing about this ending so I think until we know who's involved in that ending I mean it would be hard pressed to see the Bachelorette maybe not maybe not come from it but then then you have to anticipate the heartbreak. Like I thought Zach's season, who was his runner up? Wasn't it Gabby?

Gabby, yeah. I thought she was an amazing bachelorette. I heard that she was still genuinely hurting from the breakup. They're going to have to film AFR and they're going to start filming the bachelorette right away. So like is is Joey's runner up, whoever they are, emotionally ready to be the bachelorette? You know, so that that is a variable they have to consider. I think you kind of you put a little crack in my crush on Joey because I really I believed all of his sincerity. Oh, those are so valid. The way he looks at them, the way he talks to him and if it's

real that this was we just saw the oh he just this is really about him and then it makes sense why he's been talking about these fears so much you know he really is just thinking about himself oh i don't know that i can handle that i'm not trying to ruin the joey but i i it's no matter what as someone who's been a part of the show i just what I don't like are the overreactions, both good or bad. You know, when people get vilified and it's just like they're just especially in The Bachelor. I mean, it's one thing for Tom Sandoval and Rachel to have an affair and conduct themselves in the way they're conducting themselves on The Bachelor. They make villains out of fucking nothing. On The Bachelor, they make villains out of fucking nothing.

And just the most- Just regular people. Regular people saying regular things and having normal reactions to bizarre situations. Yes. And they get vilified for that. So I like to offer a little levity and realism to these overreactions. And the same with like,

oh, this person can do no wrong and they're God's gift to humanity. I'm sure Joey's a swell guy. And everything I heard about the guy, he seems like a really swell guy, but he's a human being. He's a human being who probably can get irritated and has had a bad day and hasn't handled every situation perfectly and has given someone the ick before. You know what I'm saying? He's a human being. And I'm just here to maybe point out the human side of Joey, even though we're acting like he was literally created by women from God. You know, it's just

like, OK, let's calm down. This season has also had, it seems to me at least, just so much more trauma than there has been in past seasons. And poor Joey just looks like he's had the life sucked out of him. You know, like in the beginning, he just had so much more color in his face. And now he's just like. It's like Obama after eight years of presidency. Yeah, it's like when you look at a president before and after they've been president. That's how I feel Joey is before and after he's been bachelor. Being the lead of the bachelor is the hardest thing I ever did.

It was like, granted, Special Forces is a totally different animal in an eight day, but like the emotional and physical torture that it is to be the lead of this show. You are responsible for your emotions and 30 other people as the bachelor. I think it's a little like you are, you are giving less grace. You are given less rope to, you know,

it's, it's, you, you are highly criticized criticized you have to carry the show you get no sleep it is so fucking hard and it is a nine week fucking marathon you're just trying to survive it is truly the tort and peter mentioned on traders when they're like oh do you think was this more fun like harder and and kate was just like oh it's 25 women trying to make out with you and and peter was like no it fucking sucks it does suck because you generally like two or three and then you have

a bunch of other nervous people with nothing to say who just want to throw their tongues down your throat and you don't want to look like an asshole so you're like i guess stick your tongue down my throat you know like again i mean if you really want to get into an asshole. So you're like, I guess stick your tongue down my throat, you know, like again, I mean, if you really want to get into it, you know, you can like, there's some like the bachelor's put in some very uncomfortable situations that they're

kind of like expected to just deal with. And in other environments, you'd be like, that's not okay. Yeah. I've never thought about it like that. Me neither. It's a fucking nightmare.

So yeah, I am. I empathize with Joey and I do think he. It's a fucking nightmare. So yeah, I empathize with Joey. And I do think he's doing a fantastic job. But I'm just, that one scene, it was like, ah, a human being. You know, not being a little selfish, making it a little bit about him. And to be fair, you did ask for that. You didn't want that.

You said, I want to see more human version, not this cookie cutter. No, it was interesting to me. It's like, oh, okay. Now we're seeing somebody who actually cares. He's just not, thank you for sharing. Those feelings are valid. It's like, okay, cool.

To go back to your point, Lea, it really is like, imagine every single time you get like a one-on-one and you're like, great, we're going to get to have this fun date and then we have to sit down for this candlelit dinner and it's just trauma dump, trauma dump. He really looks like he's had the life sucked out of him. I mean, he just looks like...

Like every first date is like everybody on their best behavior and like, oh, I want to like keep everything contained. And then it's like, no, no, we're going to sit down. And actually, so when I was three, let me start from the beginning. It's a lot. It's wild. And I mean, even Joey says when he's talking to Maria, he's like, last week was so special

to me. So he's bringing up like, can we just have a nice time? We had fun last week. Shut up. Why do you have to ruin a good thing? Who do you think is going to win? Who do you think is going to be the number one? I think he's going to pick Kelsey.

I think so too. I think Kelsey. What gives you that that feeling i mean ever since the beginning of the season he's clearly had a connection with her that um she's not the biggest personality or at least that's what we're seeing and yet we still see that connection and we still see joey commenting on her mentioning her it. It just seems different. And I guess I know the audience really likes Maria and the audience really likes Daisy. We see those people's natural charisma. And are we confusing the audience's like for these people versus Joey's?

Credit to the two-on-one, I just immediately was like, well, Maria doesn't win. Because it's just like if Maria were to go on a two-on-one and win, was like well Maria doesn't win because it's just like if Maria for going a 2-1-1 and win that would be unprecedented but maybe she's doing unprecedented shit you know and then Daisy just seems like they just want her to be bachelorette you know where it's like so uh I don't know Kelsey I can see that Jesus you called kelsey from the beginning there seems like a an ease with kelsey and and joey yeah you know that you know and sometimes as the bachelor like you can you can have fun with someone and you can be attracted to someone and you can be like oh wow i don't i don't know if we could be in a relationship you know there's um so i don't know i could be it

could it could be the only person I know it's not as Rachel yeah and no offense to Rachel but like where did she come from where's what is

where's this connection I don't remember I think it's because they both live in Hawaii so in my head I'm like she's there for like a proximity like potential

that's my take does Joey still live in Hawaii I think he did right I moved back I think he said okay so then I feel like they all end up moving to San Diego

regardless of where they originate from. Yeah, I just don't remember. I just, I'm not aware of Rachel and Joey. I know they had a one-on-one. And even on that one-on-one, they talked as if there were things that are not being shown. And I'm sure if you talk to Rachel,

she'd be like, yeah, you're not showing any of our stuff, which is entirely possible. I think similar to Johnny and Amy from Love is Blind maybe they just have no drama going on so they're not showing it because it's not good TV but they do seem to have something

Kelsey and Joey and Daisy and Joey and I see yeah that chemistry I thought Joey had more chemistry with the two women who went home this episode than Rachel Jen and Kelsey T yeah Jen I was surprised about I thought Joey had more chemistry with the two women who went home this episode than Rachel. Jen and Kelsey T. Yeah.

Jen I was surprised about. I thought there was maybe more of a future for Jen. Yeah, same. She seems like a lovely person, but I just didn't. Like, how did you get to Tough Floor? I just remember them dancing and that's about it. Did they do flamenco? Wasn't that?

Please tell me that was Rachel. And then Rachel. Yeah, that was Rachel. I had to think I was like, wait. I'm not even thinking of the right person.'s tough there's a lot of people a couple Kelsey's can we get cast up you know yeah I think unless something happens with him and Maria in next week's episode I think the final three has got to be Maria Kelsey and Daisy those seem to be the strongest connections yeah unless something goes on Maria definitely is doing the whole like

she's giving me campaigning I don't know and I also think she's just going to be too much for Joey to handle. She could. Yeah, I could see herself eliminate. Same. You know, or or or making almost Joey eliminate her because it can be, you know, it would, you know, if he has other connections like I get it, you know, it's like on the flip side and you know it's like okay i don't to your point sierra joey is very limited and what he can and say and do all he can do is empathize more yeah this it just doesn't land when he's just like yeah no you should be happy we had a date last week and you're here and you're one of my finalists i'm with you because she maria did actually make a really good point too because it's like how little you actually spend with that person. And we're like, what, about to bring you back home to my parents. And I've seen you six times, twice alone. You know what I mean? And so it is kind of a weird dynamic where you're like, well, this is my forever person and I choose him.

But I should also contain all of my emotions because, you know, I want to look this kind of way where I'm like, yeah, I get where she was coming from. And I think it's a difficult situation to be in regardless. But at the same time, I'm like, I don't think that that's going to be his final choice, just even based off of that conversation alone. All right. Well, I think that wraps it up. What an episode. So much to talk about. So much fun. Tara, thank you for joining us. Thank you for having me. This is my favorite thing. Remind our audience about your book, where they can find your book, all the other things that you're promoting. Yeah, sure. So the book that I have out right now is called Glow in the Fucking Dark.

And it's all self-care tools, rituals to bring out your most authentic self, but practical. Like you don't need to blow up your life. These are small things you could do to improve. And so it's everywhere, every bookstore, not every bookstore, many bookstores. And then if people want to talk more with me, they just sign up for my newsletter, which is tarashuster.com slash newsletter, or just a quick Google of Tara Schuster and newsletter. Amazing. Go ahead and Google that. We appreciate you on. You'll definitely have to come back.

Thank you for sharing that little behind the scenes with Rachel. That was really something. You really saw it. It was, I said,

you know in Hamilton, the song about being in the room where it happened? Yeah. I was in the room where it happened for Scandival

and it was the best thing. I had a book come out. I fell in love last year. The best thing that happened to me was being there that night. I wish you would have seen the alleged altercation between Sheena. Well, it was even more bizarre to me because they were, I have pictures of all three of us hugging each other and it's so fun and everyone's having a good time. So to know where that night ended up, like Sheena and Raquel were like great great together it was very shocking do you believe sheena or do you believe rachel when it comes to

the altercation i believe sheena i do i think to file a restraining order against anyone is such a severe weird reaction to anything well yeah i i i kind of always said i kind of believe rachel and think it was really shitty of her lame and lame to take legal action against sheena i would believe that something happened it was just such an overreaction the legal that i was like oh this whole thing is an overreaction and And she was spiraling. I mean, I witnessed it that night, you know? Yeah. Well, Rachel, if you're out there, we'd love to have you come on and shine on this and do the very thing that Tom Sandoval couldn't.

Yes. And we will give you that opportunity. If you're out there, let her know, people. We're trying to get a hold of her. We've been blocked. We haven't actually been blocked by her. I just don't know if we're getting through. a hold of her we've been uh blocked we haven't actually been blocked by her i just don't know if we're getting through maybe we are i don't know there's no reception there is unclear if we've made contact yeah yeah we've been sending out the this the signal there's no seat we don't know yeah there's no they don't have their send receipts on

uh all right well thank you guys for listening we'll be back on thursday uh we have just returning uh to our intro of going deeper uh obviously we we did this interview in between uh episodes being dropped so uh on thursday we'll have just come back to address her finally meeting jimmy and a little bit more tea she shares about the rest of her castmates and interactions uh what's going on. And then we have a reality TV royalty candy burrows with us doing what we like to call her Bravo exit interview. And we get into all things candy burrows and her career as a housewife. What's next?

You know, some tea about her. I'm so excited. Everything we talk about is out there, but it's, it's nicer to hear it straight from, straight from the mouth of the one who lived it. And I hope you guys tune in and enjoy,

cause it's a great episode. So, uh, that's that, uh, anything else? Then ask Nick on Mondays. Ask Nick on Mondays.

Bye.