The Viall Files - E721 Ask Nick - My Parents Are Diagnosing My Child

Episode Date: March 18, 2024

Welcome back to another episode of The Viall Files: Ask Nick Edition! Before we get to our callers, we debate the criteria regarding thirst traps… and expose our own in the process. Our first caller’s boyfriend is posting thirst traps on his instagram stories. He’s older than her, and one of his friends is jealous of their connection. Our second caller has a 14 month old son and every time her parents come over, they diagnose him with new things. They did this to her when she was younger and she does not want him to experience it as well. Our final caller is debating whether she should leave her company to work for their biggest competitor. She’s uncomfortable with the treatment she’s had so far, but loves her occupation.  “You have all the power and you just need to realize that, and leverage that, and use it.” Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  To Order Nick’s Book Go To: https://www.viallfiles.com  If you would like to get some texting advice, send an email to [e-mail] with “Texting Office Hours” in the subject line!  To advertise on the show, contact [e-mail] or visit https://www.advertisecast.com/TheViallFiles  THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Article - Article is offering our listeners $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more. Visit https://www.article.com/VIALL and the discount will be automatically applied at checkout. Quince - Indulge in affordable luxury. Go to https://www.quince.com/viall for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Hero Bread - Don’t give up being a bread head. Hero Bread is offering 10% off your order. Go to https://www.hero.co and use code VIALL at checkout. Hinge - On Hinge, there are no rules, timers or games. If you’re feeling inspired, give Hinge a try. Download Hinge today and find someone worth deleting the app for. Caraway - To take advantage of this limited-time offer for 10% off your next purchase, visit https://www.carawayhome.com/VIALL or use code VIALL at checkout. Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @alison.vandam @dereklanerussell @justinkaphillips @leahgsilberstein

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What's going on everybody? Welcome back to another dramatic episode of the Vile Files Ask Nick edition. I am your host Nick joined by the household. We currently have sweet, sweet, sweet, sweet, wait, Justin, Allie and Lam. We'll see how the rest of the episode goes. Maybe maybe they won't be with us, but I'm just kidding. What? Well, I said currently. And what do you mean?

Currently, currently you guys are here. I don't know. I just say things. Nick is like, we're doing budget cuts. Sweet, sweet, sweet. Boy. Justin is staying. Play out.

Allie. Goodbye. Plot twist. This is our year in review. Should we do that? Sometimes I'm like, just fire me on the show. Performance reviews on the show. Genius.

Yeah, for sure. It'd be great. What's new? What's cracking? What's going on? Well, we've got an exciting episode. Yes, yes, of course. Yes, of course we do have an exciting episode.

What's on our exciting episode? So our first caller is my boyfriend posts his thirst traps on Instagram and it's making me want to break up. Second caller is my parents diagnosed my 16th month old son every time they see him. Oh that one's a doozy. And then our third one is should I quit my job and work for our biggest competitor. Oh yeah, some good calls. The thirst trap one's interesting. Yeah. Because we were all discussing this and we all have different considerations of what a thirst trap is. Yeah.

Before we say our opinion, what's your opinion on what a thirst trap is? What does it mean to you? What does a thirst trap mean? What would you consider a thirst trap? A piece of content that elicits heart eyes emojis. Ali's laughing. A piece of content. He sounds like he's a Wikipedia page.

Well, it could be a picture or a video. Content. Content. Content. Content. Content. Content. Ali's laughing. A piece of content. He sounds like he's like a Wikipedia page. Well, it could be a picture or a video. Content. Content, you know. So a picture and or video that is suggestive in a way that is eliciting attention

based off of how you look. And it's suggestive intention is to turn people on, I guess in a way. You're pretty close to the definition that we found online. Oh. Yeah, the definition we found online is a photograph such as a selfie or video shared for the purpose of attracting attention or desire.

You're pretty spot on. There you go. Merriam-Webster. There's more to it though, like shirtless, not shirtless, what face are you making? I feel like more so than a definition, you kind of have to just see a photo and then decide whether or not it's a thirst trap.

Because I'm like, can you not just look good on your Instagram? Does it have to be inherently like sexual in nature? Well, again, context matters. Also like on Instagram, like is your caption suggestive? You know, even if the photo is not, does the is your caption suggestive? You know, even if the photo is not, does the caption make it suggestive? I'm also with Ali, because I studied art history,

so the amount of naked bodies that I've stared at over the past four years, that's a body, it doesn't have to be sexual, right? No, it's not the same. Yeah, art history. But like- Also like, was it like a, was it a thirst trap in the year 2000 BC or something?

That's the thing, that's the thing though. There's some artists in like 1400s that were making porn and it was just a naked lady. Da Vinci was like, yes queen, show off those titties. We call it a classical piece now, but like, yeah, back then they're like, oh my God, the audacity. This is a sexy song. The thirst, yeah.

The thirst was real. Have you posted a thirst trap ever, Justin? I definitely have, I embrace it. As a male influencer. You've posted a thirst trap ever Justin? I definitely have. I embrace it. As a male influencer. You've posted. Oh my God, yeah. I feel like I went through like I could only, you know, I think, I feel like I went through

a thirst trap era. When I was painting Bob Ross photos, I wasn't wearing a shirt, you know. But some could say that's efficient. Like less laundry. Right, you didn't want to get dirty. Sure. But yeah, it wasn't- But posting it. Okay, you didn't want to get dirty? Sure, but yeah, it wasn't.

But posting it? Yeah. Okay, so we've pulled some pictures from all of our Instagrams to see whether or not we think that they're thirst traps. If you listen to the episode and you're curious about which photos, you know, on your free time pop over. Take a look.

Or maybe check our socials, it'll probably be online. It'll probably be. Wait, but Justin, I have a question for you. As someone who has literally admitted, I post thirst traps, are there certain qualifications you have for which is a thirst trap and which is not? Like, is it like, I'm showing skin in this one? Is it a certain pose?

I guess it's intentions. Cause also I used to post things that were like artsy. So it's my body but it's artsy. I've posted photos before where I was like, oh, I look good in this. Well, I've been, okay. I've been with my husband for over 10 years. So like.

Yeah, it's a little tougher for you. And like if you were posting thirst traps, why? Right, exactly. It's more so like I look good in this photo and I wanna post it because I look good in it. But like my caption will always be like a joke or something. Okay. And Allie, have you posted a thirst trap?

I don't know. I mean, I'm very picky with what I post. I have like what like 50 something posts total. So it's like I don't post something unless I really like how I look in it. I'm very critical of myself. But it's like, I don't like post myself in swimsuits. Like I'm built like a two by four. So it's like I got no curves. I got nothing working for me. So it's like why show it? That's not true. Yeah, Ali, your working for me, so it's like, why show it? That's not true. Yeah, Ali, your photo's not hot.

When you do measurements for casting, my measurements are the same at the chest, the waist, and the hips. I got told once by a modeling agency that if I were a little thinner, I could be a good model. I was like, are you fucking kidding? It's a modeling agency. Wow.

It's a modeling agency. I didn't even ask. I was working there as an assistant, and I was like, I didn't wanna know. I'm not trying to be a model. Oh, I thought you were in a casting. I was like working there as an assistant. And I was like, I didn't wanna know. I'm not trying to be a model. Oh, I thought you were like in a casting. I was like, yeah, that's hard to hear, but you know, it's kinda how that shit works.

No, the amount of times I've been told. I'm just like, bro, I have not asked. Oh my God. I was told by my ballet teacher that I was too skinny. What? She looked at me and she was like, you have no excuse to be that skinny and dance like that. And I was like. What?

Well, she was like, you should be better than everybody else because you are skinnier. And then she like flipped it on me and I was like, oh, okay. Oh, well this is the first Thirst Trap by Justin. If only closed one. Justin is wearing a jean on jean outfit. He's squatting and his mouth is open.

Before you tell us whether or not you posted it as a Thirst Trap, we should all think if it is and then you tell us. Well, first of all, I've never been like, this is a thirst trap. You know? You know! I guess, sure, but if you're asking Justin, like, if he remembers his state of mind when he posted this photo two years ago. This was 78 weeks ago?

78 weeks ago. Okay, what do you think of the photo? It's suggestive. Yeah. It's, uh, Justin. 78, basically. Okay, what do you think of the photo? It's suggestive, yeah. It's, Justin thinks he looks good. He likes his pose, he likes his outfit, he thinks he looks sexy. True, true, true, true. Any modeling photo, if you're not, like, known as a full-time professional model,

is, I think, by default, a thirst trap. Interesting. Like, I mean, do you walk around making this? I've never, if that barely, that photo barely looks like you. That's true. Because I've never seen you make that kind of face in the office before. Well, who took this photo?

Like where were you? Self shot. Hmm, wait what? You like put it on a selfie stick? No, I mean, it's a camera. I had a tripod. And he ran his own photo shoot. You put it on a timer and like ran to that post? Thirst trapper. What does that face selfie stick? No, I mean, it's a camera. But a tripod. And he ran his own photo shoot. You put it on a timer and ran to that post?

Photographer model, thirst trapper. What does that face tell you? It's just like, I'm annoyingly hot. It's like you're annoyed by yourself. It's like, I have to squat down and look sexy. Ugh, the horror. It's the mouth open. Yeah, the mouth open's always immediate, thirst trap, mouth open. Yeah, the mouth opens always immediate thirst trap,

mouth open. Like you're not a mouth breather, so there's no excuse. I think I was serving. No, you look great. No, it's a great picture. It's a great photo. But I do think it's, yeah, the thirst trap. It's a thirst trap.

It's a thirst trap, for sure. I will say my next one is maybe a little bit more suggestive. I don't think it is, but. Put it on the screen. Put it up. Yeah, I mean. It's not even showing your face. Exactly.

Okay, so do we think faceless photos or thirst traps automatically, if it's just your body? Automatically, yeah, automatically. Cause this is just me on a beach. I didn't have a shirt fully on. This is not the same as taking a photo of your latte. Yeah, well, I mean, some could say this is the latte. So for those of you listening,

this is a picture chin down of Justin and he's wearing a button down shirt. Open. Open. And it's just showing his six pack. And hairy legs. Which congrats, bro. That is- Thank you. The ballet.

Thirst trap for sure. For sure. Yeah, cause that's just pure body. But this is like art. No. So Justin thinks that this is art. No, now we're getting into Dimitri territory again. You cannot self-identify photos of yourself as art.

Sorry, Justin. You don't get to do that. I will say some people did swipe up and send it to me. You can't be your own news. It worked. It did something. Okay, last exposing of me. Oh my God.

This is freshman in college. Fruit? He's holding fruit. A strawberry. Mouth open again. Justin's laying down on grass and he's holding a strawberry. Your eyes look like mid orgasm.

It was a tasty strawberry. It looks like you are currently orgasming and you're about to top it off with a strawberry. The caption was a strawberry. So this one, Audemar, was a thirst trap. Oh my God, this screams thirst trap. So all of, I would admit, was a Thirst Trap. Oh my God. This screams Thirst Trap. So all of yours are Thirst Traps? 100%? Art or a Thirst Trap? Thirst Trap.

Your turn, Nick. Nope. Yes. No, that's just me objectively telling everyone about my Special Forces experience and how much weight I lost. This is a picture of Nick side by side before and after he was on Special Forces and he's shirtless Yeah, not a thirst trap. Nope. No because you could have done it with just your face and you chose to include the full torso Well, he had to show the how would the transformation? Yeah, I just show the transformation This was just was this was scientific in nature. Okay, okay

Debatable. All right. Here's a picture of Nick sitting on a bed Shirts off again, and he is wearing a hat and holding his hat and looking at the camera. I gotta say, these are some good choices because these are photos you guys have selected while I'm in a relationship with Natalie. Yeah. Natalie took this photo.

So what, that means they can't be thirst traps? It's unclear. Like Natalie took this photo. Natalie was like, Natalie was the director here. What was the direction when she took the photo? So are you saying it's art? No, no, no. Is it a Natalie thirst trap?

Like is she showing off her man? Well you posted it, she did. But you posted it, yeah. That's true. So this is another debate then is posting like. Well see the comment hot as balls with a fire emoji. I think by all definitions is probably falls into thirst trap So what's your what's your opinion then about posting thirst traps while in a relationship? Well if your partner takes it

Okay, yeah, I mean listen if I you know if I now they are trying to get back into workout shape you know and if if if we accomplish that goal, like I'm sure Nali is gonna be proud of her accomplishments and pop off queen, show it off, you know? And likewise, you know, I think it can, like over and over and over, you know? I don't know, it's a little. Yeah, no, I think there is something to be said

for the fact that like A, she took the photo and B, she knew that you were posting it. Yeah, I think it really kind of matters in a relationship, but I think as long as you guys are on the same page. Is this, you're asking me if I think this is a thirst trap? They all smiled with my baby? This is a joke. It's like a family thirst trap. Maybe for the ovaries, you know.

Okay, who's next? All right, Ali. Oh, definitely a first. There's a strap. Oh my God. Again, this is a modeling photo. Ali's leaning over a pool table, looking off into the distance.

She looks like she is looking at a man about to play pool and being like, we could use this table for a different thing. That's what this says. Rack it up. She is fully clothed. Her caption just says Chicago, Illinois. No, no, no.

It says want to play question mark. That was her location. Oh, want to play is your, oh my God, Jesus. The caption was Chicago, Illinois. This is not suitable for work. She said you know where I'm at, let's go. This is basically a nude. That's not, I've never taken a nude.

She is holding balls. You're holding balls, you're drinking wine. She can handle them. This says, let's get drunk and I want to juggle your balls on the pool table. Oh my God. Got 954 likes. She did it.

Okay, here's a picture. Less of a thirst trap. Here's a picture of Allie. She's got one hand on her hip and the other on her head and she's not smiling. It's a modeling photo. It's moldering. It's a modeling photo.

So you don't think this is a thirst trap? No, it's a mild thirst trap. But I thought you said modeling photos, if you're not a model, are thirst traps. Are thirst traps. Okay. Natalie's a model. So this is a modeling photo.

This is like, any professional model who doesn't. Like if modeling is your job and you are required, you know, like, but modeling is none of our jobs. That's a good point. Cause they have an excuse to be shirtless or sexy, but we're doing it to do it. And I don't mean, have we ever made money from modeling? I mean, like, is it our job job?

Mm. Yeah. Well, this is hot, Ali. Final one for Ali. We went deep. Why are you in. Okay. Well, this is hot, Ali. Final one for Ali. We went deep. Why are you in a bathroom? Jesus, this is from college. Here's a picture of Ali in a bathroom. This is like a goth thirst trap.

She's wearing a black dress and holding a wall. She has a ponytail. She's smoldering. High pony. A high pony. And you're in a bathroom. Uh-huh. You like suggesting places where you wanna get down? That's what this looks like.

My sister took this while we were peeing. While she was peeing? No, this is after we'd peed. Okay, thirst traps in the bathroom though. I think it's a thirst trap. Thirst trap? I think it's a thirst trap. Oh no. Hey, Leah. Mine are not.

Nick's laughing. It's a funny thirst trap. It's a picture of me in a bathing suit on a motor, on a mo-head. On a Vespa. On a Vespa. I'm wearing a helmet. You're a little caught off guard in the photo as well.

Rawr. I think Nick's reaction says it all. It's not a thirst trap. Well, you're kind of like, let's hop on. Let's go for a ride. I'm not a thirst trap. I couldn't be sexy if I tried. This is like an advertisement for a YouTube driver.

Oh my God. When in Rome, next. Oh, I hate myself. There we go, that's a Thirst Trap. There we go, that's spicy. Danny took this picture. Badi-yati. Yeah, it's kind of like the one Nali took of me.

So she's in a bathing suit. She's in some paradise, Mexico. Oh, you have your leg. You're popping. Your leg is crossed. This is the only bikini picture I've ever posted. I have a fake tan. This looks like I'm a little bored

but I guess whatever, I look hot. Well, yeah, I mean, I don't know why I posted this. It's a great photo. You look exceptional, Leia. It's a great photo, yeah. You did say you were feeling confident in the caption. Yeah, because of my fake tan. You look like you could lead me in a spin class.

You guys were pretty nice with me. I have some embarrassing thirst traps out there. I will say it was hard to go that deep. We were scrolling for a minute. Yeah, we were scrolling. You post a lot for a while. You have to go. Like, it's been a while since I've really leaned into my thirst trap, girl.

There's a lot of Vilefiles reels to go through. But like between the years, like, 2017 and 2019, whew. I will say there's a difference between posting and, like, stories. Because I will admit, my Instagram stories is like, those are thirsty. But not anymore.

Things are going to disappear. But they were during college, but, like, my feed is a little more tame. Well, because the story is going to disappear, so you thirsty, but not anymore. But they were during college, but like my feed is a little more tame. Well, cause the story is going to disappear. So you have a little bit more. Yeah. My story is even worse. Boy. Yeah.

You have a little more freedom there. My stories are the opposite. I've like posted a screenshot of Justin's texts to me the other night. Like I just put random shit. That's thirsty. I swiped up. I swiped up. I liked it. I was like, okay. That's thirsty. What, your message to me? Eyes waved up, I liked it. I was like, okay.

Tell us in the comments, what you think of our sexy little thirst traps and what you guys think of thirst traps in general. I mean, listen, I think it's okay. Be nice. I think it's okay to have a little bit of fun. If you feel good, you feel sexy, put it out there. I think everything in moderation.

As far as being in relationships, I think a lot more comes down to what the expectations and how you guys feel about Natalie and I. Even in our relationships, I think we've posted a lot of things that could be considered thirst-trappable, but I feel like we were always comfortable with the stuff that we both put out there. I like celebrating Natalie and vice versa you know and so context matters. Anyway we have a great episode lined up for you some great calls don't forget to send your questions at asknick at the

file files com for all your ask Nick questions, texting office hours, mediations, you know the drill. We have a great week lined up for you we are back tomorrow with another jam-packed Recap and then going deeper on Thursday. You're going to love all the great conversations. And as you know, you know, I know for all the people who are loving Reality Recap are going deepers, have our great interviews with our great guests, but always the first, you know, 30, 40 minutes are Reality Recap asks, slash pop culture. So we kind of get into it. it So if you're if you're thirsting for more reality recap either way you're gonna get that ongoing deeper regardless of who our guest is So be sure to tune in every

Thursday, let's do it How's it going How's it going? Hi, this is Sarah. I'm 23 and my boyfriend's thirst traps are giving me the ick and I'm thinking about breaking up with him. Okay. How long have you been dating Mr. Thirst Trap? Mr. Thirst Trap and I have been dating for about three months.

Okay. So it's new. It's new. So yeah. Well, that makes sense, right? What exactly is he posting? How old is your boyfriend? My boyfriend's 33.

So there's a little bit of an age gap. Okay. You're probably thinking, I'm 23, I'm dating an older, more mature man, and if I wanted to date, you know, Thirst Trap boys, I would date someone more my age. No, 100%. I was dating people like closer to my age, and this is actually the first person I've dated that's older. Okay. And he is pretty immature I think for like a 20 or 33 year old but.

What makes you say that? Like in a fun way. Yeah, what makes you say that? Like he likes to go out and drink and like a lot of his friends are married but like he isn't quite there yet. Okay. Well, news flash, most men in general settle down.

You know, maybe like as a 23 year old I get it, but like people don't stop having fun just because they get older. They stop having fun because they settle down. No, that's a plus for me. Yeah, okay, great. What exactly is he posting?

So he doesn't post it all the time. He actually just kind of posts normally with his family, working out, whatever. But on Friday, he worked out and came home and took a thirst trap from his house and basically claimed it was a progress pic. And it was very dark and his pants were kind of low and it was just very suggestive and it was the first and his pants were kind of low and it was just very suggestive

and it was the first time he had done that. So this is not like, hey, the guns are getting bigger. This is like, is my pubic hair showing? Is it not showing? Like maybe, like, do you wanna see more? Kind of suggestive, kind of like in that vein. It kind of gave that energy, but then he put this paragraph over it that was like,

oh, I'm gonna be working out Monday through Saturday until my birthday in October. Did he say where? Like he said all the places he works out at. And then basically said. Well, that's a bit of a red flag, you know? It's a red flag. Suggestive photo with a here's where you can find me.

Maybe a leap, you know, if you said something like that to him, he'd be like, you're crazy, you know, he'd probably accuse you of overstepping, but I do think it's fair to be like, listen, I know we're new, but like, that's a suggestive photo, facts, like I don't have time to debate with you. When it comes to stuff like this, where you could get into arguing semantics,

like when you know you're right, you really have to like, you know, not to sound cliche or using, you know, stand in your power. You know what I'm saying? Like you can't have him try to convince you. Like it's like, dude, your fucking pubic hair is fucking barely popping out of the photo. So like it's clearly suggestive. And I'm glad. Listen, you look good. I'm proud of you. Show yourself off. You know, like go girl. You know what I'm saying? Like the same way you would gas up your friends, you can good, I'm proud of you, show yourself off, you know, like go girl. You know what I'm saying? Like the same way you would gas up your friends, you can gas him up, but there's a difference

between like taking a shirtless selfie to show your progress and like almost having your dick out. And then on top of it, like imagine how it must make me feel, you're posting, like we've only been dating for three months. So like, and I think you say it like that, very matter of fact, we've only been dating for three months and I really like you so far, but like we are still learning about each other. And it just makes me a little uneasy.

I'm not accusing you of anything, but it is making me uneasy that you're posting suggestive photos. Who are you suggesting things to? And then you're posting out like places people can come find you? Like that's just, you know, listen, maybe you didn't mean it to attend this way, but I'm pointing it out to you how it looks.

So, you know, instead of accusing him, but it's just more like, listen, maybe you didn't realize, maybe you're just fucking stupid. Don't say that, I'm just, you know. But you kind of say like, you know, maybe you don't realize, but this is how it's interpreted, it's how, honestly, just so you know, it's how people online interpret it. And I, you know, as you don't realize, but this is how it's interpreted, it's how, honestly, just so you know,

it's how people online interpret it. And I, you know, as your girlfriend, this is not giving guy in a relationship. This is giving very single guy. And, you know, that's upsetting to me. I'm not here to tell you what you can and can't post, but like, you know, do you want me looking single as fuck on my Instagram?

Yeah, 100%. What have you said to him? So on Saturday is kind of when I was more upset about it. So it happened on Friday. And then on Saturday, I was like, I just don't really want to do anything about it. So I just didn't really text him, but I ended up running. Like he ended up coming to meet me while I was out.

And I just like, couldn't even talk to him. And then we ended up talking and I kind of said what you said where I was just like, it's just very suggestive. I was probably about to break up with him like on the spot. And I just kind of said, like, you know, it's an early relationship, so it's not really something. Also my whole issue is I wouldn't date someone

that would post that in the first place. Just it's not, I've been down that road with guys. You don't need a guy that everybody's. And it just kind of suggests that when someone posts that on their story, so. I hear you, I hear you. You have every right to think of it as an ick. That being said, I would, don't be that reactive.

You know, because it could've just been like, maybe he was just feeling himself, you're only three months in this relationship, old habits die hard, so to speak. I don't know how you feel about this guy. The big question is, minus this moment, or this ick, or these thirst traps, what do you like about this guy?

What do you like about this relationship? Are you using this moment as an excuse to break up with him? Because quite honestly, you're like, I don't know where this is going. Or are you making a really big deal about something that otherwise everything about this relationship has been pretty promising?

Yeah, no, I think that I am kind of reactive and I haven't been in a longer term relationship in a while, so I think I am kind of one to jump ship at the first kind of sign of distress. But yeah, I think when I saw the photo, I was just more so upset. And I have friends that kind of, they have him on Instagram, so my friends actually saw it. And my friend's boyfriend was the one

who really stirred me up about it, because he was like, that was like bait. Because at first I saw it, was like oh like maybe he's just feeling himself and he just wanted to post a picture. I don't love it but you know I'm not gonna yuck someone's yum just because they like you know are feeling themselves. I post things sometimes where I know I'm kind of asking for attention and I don't think I need to be able to I don't really think it's that harmful

if you're thinking you look good in a photo and you wanna post it, but at the same time, what is the intention? That's kinda like my thing with him. But he did admit it when I talked to him later about it, that it was kind of for attention. Yeah, so that's great. That's a good sign.

Listen, it's early in the relationship, shit like this is gonna happen. It really comes down to how you guys handle it and how you communicate it. If he were to continue to be incredibly defensive and then kinda get a little gaslighty and being like, what are you talking about? You're crazy, you're overreacting and shit like that.

Huge red flag, right? Yeah. But if he's like, you know what, yeah, I don't know. It was a little cringy, I definitely didn't need to do this. I don't know what I was thinking. You're right. Your feelings are valid. I understand where you're coming from. I'm hearing you. And then he makes the proper adjustments. Again, this is a renewed relationship. So we can't be just ending and breaking up with people just because they give you the ick.

But what it comes down to is like, you know, it is a good time to evaluate the rest of the relationship, you know? And this is a great opportunity to set new boundaries, to set new expectations. You guys have a long way to go before you guys really are comfortable with each other, before you really know about each other's good habits

and bad habits, and this won't be the last time he gives you the ick and vice versa. It's just about where do you guys go from there? Because listen, if every guy you date, you break up within the first six months of dating him, every time they give you the ick or they act like, the residue of their fuckboy past pops up, then like you're gonna, good luck.

So we all, everyone, not just women, men, we all have to have grace early in relationships. And this is how we communicate. So people are full of extremes. It's like, there's one group of people, they would just ignore it. They would have a conversation with themselves, they would find the right friends to be like,

no, it's not a big deal, my boyfriend or what, it's not, you know, and then you wouldn't even address it. You would just, you would convince yourself it's not a big deal and then you would like push your frustrations down, ignore them and have them pop up down the road. Or in this case,, then there's people like what you're considering now is be like,

oh, fuck it, I'm done, bullshit. Like neither of those are a recipe for success. But it sounds like you've already kind of done that where you just like you addressed your frustrations. You can communicate it how it made you feel. You can communicate with him like how it came across. You, and then I'm assuming asked for new expect. Listen, can you not do that anymore?

And that's such an easy fix, you know? And I think and you got to make sure he hears you again. Like you want a progress photo. Great. But like, let's make sure like you're, you know, it doesn't need to be suggestive. And we both know how to, you know, create a time. And it sounds like he acknowledged that. Yeah. And he acknowledged it. So that's a good thing. You know, you could go on my Instagram and find some photos that if I were to go

back, I would have been like, that's a bit cringe or, you know, unnecessary. Now, was I in a relationship? Probably not. But that being said, you know, I went from being essentially single for years, you know, minus some TV stuff here or there. And then so when Natalie and I finally got into a relationship, it's like, oh wait, yeah, you know, and when I'm in a relationship, I'm 100%. But like that first few months, you're like,

you have to remind yourself, no'm I'm in a relationship I can't I have to make certain changes and you know it can be an adjustment period you know and when was the last time you had a girlfriend your boyfriend I actually don't know I think it was like six months ago okay that's not that long but we know six months ago nine months ago actually okay now but six months before like we started not that long. But either way, my point still stands. It's how do you communicate?

You know, when these problems arise, like I understand that icks are a thing, but like, again, icks do not define someone's character. Icks have nothing to do with how someone treats you or how they communicate. And everyone does things that gives the new partners the ick or the, you know, kind they communicate, and everyone does things that gives new partners the ick or the kind of like, really, you do that? That's okay, that's all right, guess I'm gonna have to accept that. But that's part of a relationship.

And the rest seems good. You know, do you like how he treats you? Do you like how he makes you feel? Do you feel like he's making you a priority? Other than this suggestive post, do you feel like he's making you a priority? Other than this suggestive post, do you feel like he's mostly honest? And by honest, I mean, especially early on, is he doing shady shit?

Once a week, you're like, what, does he have to explain himself? Things like that. Or is he consistent? Where do you think he falls under that spectrum? He's been pretty good. There's obviously been a few little things. He has a lot of friends that are girls, which is totally fine.

But one of his friends, I think, does like him. And she doesn't want to meet me, which is one thing. But we already talked about that. It's kind of reassured there. Well, that's good that you got reassured, but like what are you gonna, how are his actions going to change? Because simply reassuring you

that there's nothing going on isn't enough. And what I mean by that is just like, you know, listen, like it can be hard. Again, you're only three months into this relationship with him. And this girl that's this friend of his that you think likes him and doesn't wanna to meet you how long have they been friends? Maybe like five years or ten years.

Okay. So, well. Some of them, they've been friends for a long time. Okay, so. It wasn't like a short friend. Yeah, so right like from her point of view and maybe even his little point of view it's just like like this 23 year old who's been in your life for a couple months is telling you we can't be friends, like oh my God.

But listen, at the end of the day. Yeah, I didn't tell him that. No, but at the end of the day, he's your boyfriend and he has chosen to have you as his girlfriend and that's his choice. And if he wants, regardless of your age or how long you've known each other, if he wants to be in a relationship with you,

there's certain, you know, you could be friends but does he need to be having lunch lunch is he going to lunch with these and one like i don't know if he needs to be having lunch with uh or like that was what i said like you don't need to go to dinner you think guys can hang out in groups and stuff but you don't need to like go up because yeah i think you've said this on your podcast if you see a guy and a girl out together at the end of the day people are are gonna look at you and be like, that's a couple, whether or not it's true or not.

Just like you're kind of doing couple-y things. That's true, but less significant to the fact that your boyfriend, any woman he's had in his life as a friend, even if it is truly platonic, and in most cases, not all, most cases, in a heterosexual friendship between a man and a woman, there's always one person who wishes there were more. Not all, but it's a safe assumption.

So there's a good chance he's like, I don't know, she's just my friend, but she's obsessed with him. And like, good news for you, if a guy sees a woman as a friend, they usually don't cross that boundary, you know? So he probably has no intentions of doing anything with her. Nevertheless, him having lunch with her and catching up,

even if it's like to give her relationship advice about men, used to serve a need that you now serve, you know? That emotional connection with a woman, like he should be, that's how you build a relationship. He doesn't, if he really wants to build a connection with you, then you know, he needs to invest more time in you and it's just like, I'm not telling you not to be friends, but it's just more like a single 33 year

old man has a bunch of women friends he goes to movies with and has dinners with. Those are just facts and a man, a 33 year old man in a relationship who is excited about a relationship and wants to build this relationship and wants to build a connection and wants to invest in it is like, he's not calling up his girlfriends and be like, we can't be friends anymore.

He just doesn't have time for them. He's just like, yeah, sorry, I'm like hanging out with the girl. And like, yeah, they might get frustrating and get mad, but like these women need to be happy for him. All of my, when I met Natalie, you know, I had a handful of women friends I would hang out with, grab lunch with and straight platonic.

There was nothing nefarious. And the true barometer was when I told them about Natalie, they were thrilled for me. They were excited to meet her. You know, like they trusted my decision making. Like had I, yeah, listen, had I introduced them to Natalie and she gave this terrible impression and acted like a child and like, you know, and acted like, who the fuck, who the fuck can bring home?

Yeah, sure, they might've given me some feedback, but that didn't happen. I doubt that's happening with you. You know what I'm saying? So them simply assuming that you're a certain way because you're younger, that's fucked up. But like, short of you acting like a way that would be like concerning or a red flag

to your boyfriend, they should be super excited to meet you. They should be super excited to have, you know, involve you in their life, you know? And even if they're not excited to meet you. They should be super excited to have, you know, involve you in their life, you know? And even if they're not excited to involve you in their life, but they just should be very supportive. It should make sense. Like, none of these friendships that your boyfriend has with women

should be something you guys have to argue about. Yeah, we haven't really argued about it necessarily. Like I brought it up, like we've discussed it for sure. My issue more so was she kind of just shut me down before she even met me. She was just like, oh, she's this young thing. Like, oh, you want me to meet your young thing. And he's like, this is my girlfriend.

She's serious to me. And I think actually, this is actually a good story. So we were out and we were with my friend, who's a guy, and we ran into some other friends and we were around where she lives and he was like, oh, I'm gonna invite her. And he invited her and she basically said yes and then said, who are you with?

And he said me, and then she was like, nevermind, and didn't come. Yeah, so that's bullshit, and you need to like, listen, you need to point out how she's, she's disrespecting you, and whatever. Yeah, no, she's super disrespectful. I get it, you can even empathize from her POV, hey, you can be like, I get it, she's older,

she's probably making a bunch of judgments, either way it's disrespectful, and as your girlfriend, I don't deserve, he needs to take your side. And he needs to stop trying to make that friendship happen. At this point, it's up to her to come around. And if she wants to have a friendship with him, she needs to respect his decisions and what he wants

and what's important to his life. And so there should be no convincing of what you need to do to make this friendship with her happen, to be clear. You know what I'm saying? Like if he's like, hey, like babe, I know she's been kind of like whatever, but if you could do this, you know, I think it'd go,

no, no, none of that. It's like, listen, I don't know her. I had no problem with her, but like her acting that way, I don't need to be friends with her. You know, you're friends know her, I had no problem with her, but like her acting that way, I don't need to be friends with her. You know, you're friends with her, I get it, but like listen, guys in relationships and friendships with women is already kind of questionable, so for her to treat me like that,

either A, she just doesn't respect me, or B, she wants to fuck you. Either way, I'm not going out of my way to help your friendship with her. If she wants to go out of her way after disrespecting me, then I'll, fine, I'll be chill, I'll be cool, but like, I'm not the one who should be making the effort here.

And the reason he would go to you and ask you that over going to her and asking that is because he thinks he has more influence and power over you, and he thinks he can get you to do it over her to do it, and you know, and that would be bullshit. So I'm not saying that's going on, but something to look for. Yeah, I will look out for that,

because I feel like I'll probably have to deal with that again soon. I haven't really, I've kind of just been ignoring it, to be honest. It hasn't come up, though, but I kind of just set a boundary where I said, you know, don't need to be going out to lunch alone, or you can if you want, but like, I just think if she says something rude

about me, I need to kinda say no. It's just not cool. He should not be like this fucking chick who, no. Yeah. No, it's just like, I'm not trying to be dramatic, I'd start this, but like, listen, it's weird that she didn't want to come because I was there, so either A, she doesn't respect me, or B, she wants to fuck you, or both.

Either way, I'm not comfortable with this friendship anymore, and I hate to be that person, but like, I didn't do this, and I don't wanna have this dramatic fight with you. But again, you're not fuck buddies, you're not in a situation ship. He wants to be your boyfriend. I'm assuming he wants you to continue to be his girlfriend. And if he wants that, relationships are about sacrifice.

And does he want to invest in this relationship or not? But you shouldn't be made to plead with him about making sure which women he makes a priority. And if he wants to go to lunch with a woman, he should invite you to lunch. Yeah, he hasn't hung out with her since we kind of talked about it the first time. I was like, I'm not gonna tell you not to be friends

with her, but I do think it's probably inappropriate. But I kind of just want him to do it on his own, because I feel like if I tell him to do it, it doesn't mean as much. but I think you're right. I can set boundaries at the same time. Yeah, exactly. So it's not saying you're not allowed to do this. You'd say, it makes me really uncomfortable

given what's happened for you to maintain this relationship. So do what you want. It's still his choice, but there's a difference between telling someone what to do and then communicating how their actions make you feel, because that's what you want in a relationship. You wanna be able to communicate to your partner how something makes you feel or a situation makes you feel,

and you want them to give a shit. You want them to say, you know what? I don't want you to feel that way. And maybe there's a conversation back and forth to get on the same page, because maybe you're not seeing eye to eye, but you have the right to have a situation make you uncomfortable.

And if it does, he's supposed to give a shit. And if he doesn't, that's a problem. And vice versa. If he comes to you and says, hey, this fucking guy's being weird around you, and I know, and you might be like, oh my God, he's disgusting. It's like, maybe so, but he wants to fuck you.

And that makes me uncomfortable. So like, can you, you know, you need to respect that. You know, it goes both ways. But if you guys are really in a relationship, these are the conversations you gotta need to start having. And be the 23 year old woman who's like, 23 or not, you're willing and able to have these very mature conversations

that every couple should be having, regardless of their 21 or 54. That's what people do. And you've pointed out a couple of times, well, I asked you a couple simple questions about his past or his history, and you didn't have the answer, and that's totally fine. But let that be a sign of like,

clearly you two have a lot to get to know about each other. And that's totally fine. It's only been three months. Which is all to say that, like, you know, if you want to keep dating, there's a lot more time and investment you need to have. So instead of having lunch with this woman who clearly wants to like something more with him, he should be prioritizing getting to know you more and vice versa. Learning a little bit more about his history and his past and asking questions, not because

you're interrogating him, but like you're genuinely interested in who he is. Yeah, I think that if I, I've told him that too, I think we need to like open up to each other more, and we have been, but I think that learning a little bit more about someone definitely gives you that kind of innate reassurance that makes you feel better about a relationship too, and just kind of understand why people do things.

But yeah, I think that I will definitely take this to heart trust your trust your instincts Yeah, trust your instincts Because I think I am kind of that I don't know what the attachment styles are But I think I'm the one where you just like avoid everything kind of bounce. Maybe so I don't know I don't know much about them either, you know, and that's you know, if you're interested learn about it I don't think you need to understand your attachment style to be in a successful relationship. I'm not knocking, I think it's fascinating stuff but trust your, you know, trust your instincts, trust your body. When something feels off, ask questions, you know. Avoiding it isn't doing you any

good. And yeah, listen, if it doesn't work out you are only 23 but who knows? You know, maybe this could work out but you have to put it like everything else. You have to put in the work. Yeah, cool. All right, well, keep us posted. We'd love to know where this relationship goes. I mean, it can go, it's a coin flip now, you know? We'll see.

Yeah, I'll have to see how this plays out. I'm gonna see him today too, so I'll probably talk to him a little bit more about this. When it comes to women that are friends, trust your instincts. If it feels off, it's off. Because it all comes down to how these women make you feel about that relationship.

Yeah, because I have a lot of guy friends that I would never, I just thought about myself. Like if one of my guy friends was like, oh, I'm dating someone, I would be so excited to meet them and like so supportive. Exactly. And it's just such a weird thing to me. Like I can't think of anyone where I'd be like,

ew, no, I don't wanna meet their girlfriend. That's so strange to me, but to each their own, I appreciate the advice though. There's a reason why, so trust your gut. Yeah. All right, well, keep us posted. We definitely want an update down the line, you know, whatever direction this relationship goes.

100%, well, thank you guys. All right, take care. All right, bye-bye. Bye. Quince. We've said it right, bye-bye. Bye. Quince. We've said it before, we'll say it again. Quince is helping you get the most unique,

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You will love hero bread. How's it going? Hi, so excited to be here. I'm Nell and I just turned 40. All right. Happy birthday. Now, how can we help? Thank you.

I feel like I'm a geriatric listener to the Vilephiles. I'm older than you. I'm an avid one, so really, really happy to get to share the story with you. Awesome. Well, how can we help? So my parents, they diagnosed my 16 month old son with something new every time they see him. And I struggle with that because it's hard to hear these things that I don't even know if they're true.

But also just maneuvering around that changing relationship from a parent to a grandparent has been tough. What are they diagnosing him with? So this last time was ADD. He just started walking and he's thrilled to get to explore the world in that way. And now he has ADD. Before he needed to go to physical therapy

because he wasn't walking. They said it was unhealthy that I nursed him. And amperiated things. How old is your son again? Your son's 16 months? 16 months old, yeah. And what is your parents' profession? My dad just retired, he's an attorney. And my stepmom, she's a mom.

So this isn't even your biological mom who's doing this, it's your stepmom? No. No, but she's been a parent of mine since I was two, so I was really raised by four parents, but. So neither of them are doctors, to be clear. Or physical therapists, or psychologists, or are in any position whatsoever to diagnose people.

No, not at all. Okay, well, there's that. Like on this show, you know, like obviously people call me for advice all the time about some serious stuff. Like I'm very careful not to diagnose people because I don't, what the fuck, I don't know, I'm not a therapist, I'm not a doctor. I can give you my opinion about a situation

and I can suggest how you might handle it, but like diagnose, holy shit, like that's not cool that they're doing it. Parents are not. ADD, like I don't, again, I'm not a doctor, so I'm not telling you whether your kid is or isn't ADD, but just a guess on my part, new dad over here, that little 16-month-year-old boys,

you have a young son? Little boy, yeah. Yeah, well, I would imagine everything is new and exciting and then some things that might not hold their attention span. And walking, I mean, shit. I would imagine everything is new and exciting and then some things that might not hold their attention span. And walking, I mean, shit. It's a pretty big spectrum. When did your son start walking?

Maybe a week and a half ago, so it's all new for him. And he's thrilled, so he wants to walk everywhere. Yeah, and honestly, yeah, maybe he was a late bloomer walking. Again, I don't know. I'm not a physical therapist or a doctor. I'm assuming you take your son to a pediatrician all the time and I'm assuming you've gotten Feedback that suggests that you know, every baby is different. Everyone goes at their own pace. Your son's happy and healthy

Congratulations Right it goes something like that. It does now there's a little bit of an added dynamic Which I think is informing my dad and stepmom feeling so comfortable sharing all of this with me. My stepmom diagnoses a lot of people with a lot of things. They love control. And she diagnosed her nephew as being on the spectrum of autism.

And that actually was right. And because she found it so early, he was able to get the support that he needs. And so I think that has made her feel emboldened to tell everybody else what's wrong with them. And that is certainly something she and my dad have done with me my whole life. Well, what have you been diagnosed with?

Oh man, well, I wasn't ever gonna find love because my hair was too curly, I wasn't smart enough, and so I just, a ton of different things. And you're a professor now? Yes, right. Not smart enough, great. Yeah, I mean, what's the saying? Even a broken clock's right twice a day, you know?

How many things has your stepmom been wrong about? What's annoying is that often she's right, but she's just so. What do you mean by often? I guess that things about me, it's just not kind to say that somebody won't fall in love and they're not smart enough, but with this autism situation would be an excuse.

Are you in love now? I am, yeah, I'm very happily married. So she was wrong about that. I mean, I'm willing to bet a large sum of money that I'm not necessarily suggesting that you do this. I think you should just accept the reality. But if you were to, if you were to go down memory lane and really nitpick all the crazy shit

that your parents diagnosed you or other family members with with these fickle little diagnoses, I'm very certain that there would be a very long list of things they got wrong. And yeah, maybe there's a handful of things they got right. And yeah, the autism thing, yeah, good for them. She's not a hero. They probably would have figured it out.

But that doesn't give her the right to go around and start throwing out fucking diagnosis with every single one. And most of it is just fucking mean. Mean-spirited and like you said, based off of control and influence and she is getting like she this is just stroking her ego. Yeah I totally agree with that and I think what I wasn't expecting being a mom now and dealing with them as grandparents rather than parents is that it was so hard for me growing up, always feeling monitored, never feeling good enough.

And I've gone through a lot of therapy to deal with that for myself, but I just don't want my son to ever feel like he isn't enough. And I also want to include them in his life. So I just- Well, that's their choice, right? They have a choice.

And you as the parent now are in control. And we've talked about this over and over other, your parents just, they hate giving up control. And your parents hate giving up control of you. But now that you are in the driver's seat and it's your kid and not theirs, they want to see your grandchildren. And they want to of you. But now that you are in the driver's seat and it's your kid and not theirs, they wanna see your grandchildren and they wanna see you. They wanna have a relationship with you

and they wanna have a relationship with your grand, with your son. But they, they're going to act as if they'll be okay with not having that relationship because that's manipulation and you know, and you just, you're the parent, it's your kid. And you might have to have a couple of tough conversations with them.

You can either respect my wishes, my boundaries, or you cannot. But, you know, I love you, but if you can't respect how I want to parent my kid, if you can't respect my wishes, I'm a 40 year old woman, then you can't be around here. And that gives me no pleasure in saying that, but like the choice is yours.

And you have to say it with conviction and you have to mean it. You have to, you know, setting that boundary is I'm not gonna let people in my life make me feel less than, or certainly make my kid feel less than, I'm certainly not gonna let them plant seeds of like false diagnosis.

I'm gonna let the doctors do that. So it's like, hey, listen, mom, dad, I know you, and you give them the benefit of the doubt. I'm sure you mean well. I know you're doing this love, but I have this handled. My kid goes to the doctor plenty. I'm following my doctor's advice. You guys are not. So I don't want to hear any diagnosis. I don't care that you got it right before. So I need you to respect that. And if you can't respect that, then that's gonna change this relationship. And you can point out, just like,

listen, I'm not gonna have you say shit to my son that you've said to me over the years. I didn't have a choice, you were my parents, to overcome certain things you said to me. But I will protect my kid from anyone, including their grandparents, if their grandparents decide not to respect my wishes. Oh man, I wish that you could have this conversation.

Just calm up. Everything you said is exactly how I'm feeling now. I wouldn't do that to you, but that just sounds so scary. What's so scary about it? I have always been really intimidated by them for these reasons of control. It's frightening to... Use your son as motivation.

What's scarier, standing up to mom and dad? Do they financially support you? No. Okay. What do you need from your parents at this point in your life? Love and acceptance. There you go, right? And that's debatable whether you really need that.

That's more of a nice to have. But to be a great parent to your son, you don't really need anything from them. You know what I'm saying? You have a husband who gives you love. You have a kid who I'm sure gives you all, makes you feel incredibly loved. And so a relationship with them is, well, you know,

a priority, you don't need, you know, so it's not that scary. You're self-sufficient. You know, there's nothing they can say or do that will change your life. They can't take anything away from you. Nothing. And trust me when I say they want to be in your life just as much, if not more, than you need to be in their life. That's true. He's their only grandson and I know that they love him very much. And maybe I can do for him what I was never able

to do for myself. Exactly. Certainly I would. You gotta use that as motivation. Because it's a lot scarier for, your son's only 16 months now, but if you don't change his behavior, soon your son's gonna be three, four, five years old

and he's going to be smart enough and aware enough to hear what grandma and grandpa have to say. And then eventually you're gonna ask grandma and grandpa to babysit. Maybe he wants to go over to grandma and grandpa's house for the night. Do you really trust that they're gonna shut the fuck up and not do that shit?

Absolutely not. They're actually, I don't feel comfortable with them being alone with him. And it's just, it's a different generation and they're not open to what I have to say. My dad once kind of grabbed his face and not in an aggressive way, but I wasn't comfortable and my husband wasn't comfortable

and I can't have that happen again. So I know I need to set boundaries. I'm just really scared. What does your husband say? So this is something that- I would lose my know I need to set boundaries. I'm just really scared. What does your husband say? So this is something that. I would lose my fucking shit if it were him. Of course, yeah, and especially if it's not your family. So I'm curious what you think about this,

but my therapist suggested that family of origin stuff, the person whose family it is deals with it. So if his. I couldn't agree more, but you're not dealing with it. I know. So I would absolutely, you know, again, I've said this before, but Nellie and I are incredibly lucky when it comes to in-laws.

Like, we don't have to deal with shit like that. We're so lucky. But if we did, fuck, you know? I would give Nellie every opportunity, and I'm sure she would, but in an alternate universe if Nellie didn't deal with it, I wouldn't have much of a leash. You know, I would like deal with it or I will. You get the first step, but this is your kid you're talking about, you know? Yeah, and you're right. I need to maintain my end of the bargain and he does get really uncomfortable

and he said that he almost intervened when he saw my dad grab our son's face and that's not fair to put him in that position either. So that's why all of these things are happening and I know that I need to be the one to have this tough conversation and I just want to say it in the strongest but most loving way and that feels very intimidating to me. Well practice, practice on your husband, it's fine you can acknowledge this is tough for you and you know you don't have to be all mean and angry but you just what you have to do is enforce that boundary. So

you can be as sheepish as you want you know you can be like mom dad please you know I'm really I know and they cannot you seriously. But at the end of the day, you can not have them come over. You can deny them access to their grandson. And it's that simple. And you just say, listen, I'm asking for respect. This is a non-negotiable. I'm not asking you. I'm saying this is what needs to happen for you to have a relationship with our son. If this is hard for you guys to hear, I'm sorry I still love you. But this is my kid. This is our family.

We're making the rules now, not you. I'm not a minor. I'm an adult. And it's that simple. And I promise you, they will throw a temper tantrum because they're not used to hearing you do that. And they'll act out, but as long as you hold the line and you don't give into that boundary, they'll come around, guarantee it.

Okay, yeah, I hope so. And they haven't ever heard me set a boundary and I kind of dipped my toe in the other day and I tried to say that it was, I feel fragile enough as it is as a new parent. And of course, I'm anxious about every fall and everything. Like I'm sure you do too. You just research again and again,

and you're anxious, your kid has whatever. And I shared that with them and asked if they could maybe curb criticizing him. And I was told to grow up. So I just think it's gonna be a slightly tougher conversation. Yeah, yeah, but here's the thing, you're not asking. Right. You're not asking.

Stop asking your parents for permission of how you want to raise your kid. Oh, yeah, no, you're right. That I haven't ever done. You saying, mom and dad, can you please not do this, is you asking their permission for how you want your child raised. And that's fucking crazy.

It is crazy. That's what infuriates you, you know? So it's Mom, Dad, I'm not asking you, I'm telling you. You want me to grow up? No, like listen, this is me growing up. They're daring you to grow up. You growing up is you having the strength to enforce a boundary with them.

Fine, you know what? I am, I'm gonna grow up. If you can't respect my wishes, you can't be involved in our lives. And I say that with no pleasure, mom and dad, because I love you, and I want you in our lives, and I want you to be great grandparents, but you're gonna be grandparents to our son

on our terms, not yours. It's that simple. I'm not asking you, I'm telling you, and you gotta practice that in the mirror until you have the guts to say it. You can say it in a letter. I don't care if you can't say it face to face, but say it and mean it.

And you can feel bad all you want, but do not give in to that boundary. They'll come around. I think that's really, really good advice, and especially that distinction between asking and telling that is something that I hadn't really thought of. I thought that I had kind of done it, but obviously it didn't go well,

so I didn't say what I needed to say in the right way. Your parents have spent their whole life making you feel incapable of enforcing a boundary with them. And now that you have a son, they are literally using your kid as a way to continue to make you feel less than and to doubt yourself as a parent and to make you feel less confident about yourself.

That's fucked up. You gotta put a stop to that. They are weaponizing your own son against you. Ugh, yeah, yeah, that's hard to hear. But it's true and that's how it makes me feel and I don't want to continue that because it was horrible to me and to my self-esteem growing up and I get to stop that now I am an adult and the other thing they are trying to weaponize too is

My relationship with my brother their other or their son my stepmoms and my dads. And he's an incredible guy, but everybody has issues and everybody is different. And they'll say, oh, well, your brother did this, so why isn't your son? And it's all this comparative that if my son doesn't do something exactly like my brother did, then he's, then he, it's wrong. Yeah, it's just crazy.

I mean, what, Your brother's how old? 32. And why are they comparing a 32-year-old man to a 16-month-old? I don't know. I mean, they're the experts in parenting. They'll watch old videos of my brother, and if he did something at my son's age

that my son isn't doing, he needs to go to the doctor and figure out why. It's nuts. I say this with love, and I'm having a bit of fun, but clearly they're not experts in parents because I'm talking to a woman who's like, my parents fucked me up and I had to go to spend thousands of dollars of therapy

because of my parents, so clearly they're not experts. In fact, you should send him a fucking bill. Like you guys hate me, like no offense, mom and dad, I love you and honestly, like in all seriousness, like and I said, and I'm very protective of parents in general because I, quite honestly, in all seriousness, and I'm very protective of parents in general, because quite honestly, I think now we have a culture and a society that is incredibly ungrateful of what it takes to be a parent,

because it is hard to be a parent. Parents are gonna fuck up, parents are gonna make mistakes, but they sacrifice their whole fucking lives for their kids. And I think kids in general have no appreciation because they can't fucking remember most of the time. The fucking sacrifices that parents make between the ages of one and three. And we're not grateful enough for our parents.

I truly believe that. At the same time, regardless of how grateful you should be for your parents, sometimes you have to grow up and start setting new relationships and new boundaries. And parents are always gonna have a hard time giving up that control, you know, not all, I mean. Well, I know my mom has been handling it perfectly.

So I see the counter example. It seems like you're experiencing great maneuvering of roles in your life, which is awesome. And I also really wanted to talk to you about this because I know that you have a lot of respect for parents and those sacrifices, and I just don't want to be ungrateful when I have this conversation and dismissive of what my dad and stepmom have done for me.

You know what? That's because like, truously, unless you really had to, you probably shouldn't say to them, like, I'm gonna send you the fucking bill for all the therapy I've ever had for how you guys fucked me up. You don't say to them, like, I'm gonna send you the fucking bill for all the therapy I've ever had for how you guys fucked me up. You don't need to throw shit in their face,

unless, I mean, unless, you know, I mean, listen, you're only human, but that would be, you saying that would either be you just being a little toxic, or maybe just trying to get your point across, getting off their high horse when they're like, we're the best parents ever, it's just like, I mean, if they ever refer to themselves

as experts, then you can let them know. But short of that, probably not something you should say. It's really, because it's not about relitigating the past. It's not you going through all this list of all the things they got wrong. It's saying, I am grateful for you guys as parents. You've been there for me, and whatever you got right or you got wrong,

overall, I'm happy, I'm healthy, I'm successful, thank you. But it doesn't, it's a new world, I have new, I'm like, again, I'm my own person and I'm not interested in your feedback. You're welcome to be a grandparent. You're not here to be a parent, I'm not asking you to be a parent for me, I'm 40 years old.

It just comes down to you letting them know that you have the strength to stand up to them. Because right now they just see you as, you know, weak. As a kid. As a kid. And up until this point, you know, a kid asks their parents for permission. And you're still asking your parents for permission. And so you're basically giving your parents permission to treat you like a kid.

So you need to stop asking for their permission. Short of you being like, hey, can I use your car? Can I have your house? Short of you needing their permission to use their stuff, but you don't need their permission about how you wanna raise your kid or how you wanna handle yourself in a relationship. If you wanna ask for their advice, you say, listen, when I want your opinion,

I'll ask for it. And if I don't, I don't want to hear it. And if you give it to me without me asking, like, there'll be consequences. Again, they want a relation, they need a relationship with you and your son way more than you need it. Like, you're just, this is a game of chicken. And this goes away in like business relationships too. Like, listen, relationships too. Listen, people in power will always use their power. And as soon as they start feeling like they're losing power, that's when they really double down on using that power because they're trying to scare the people into thinking it.

But you've got to stand up to bullies. And I've never done that. And I think everything you're saying is right. And even though I'm a grownup, I've never stepped into authority when it comes to them. And that does feel really scary, but I would do anything for my husband and my son. And obviously I won't do that for myself because I haven't. Stop calling it scary. It's not scary.

Scary is there's a million other things you could or should be scared about. Your parents being mad at you and making, you know, that's not scary. What could happen? When you say scary, oh that's scary, what could happen? I don't love confrontation, so I think what's scary to me is being screamed at, and you're right,

maybe scary isn't the right. Well, screamed at? Well, if you think they're gonna scream at you for this, then don't have this face to face. Have it over the phone or write a letter. And the moment they raise their voice, click. I will, and before you, like mom, dad, I won't be yelled at.

If you continue to talk to me in this tone, I'm gonna end this conversation. And the next word out of their mouth, they better change. And if not, you click, you hang up. That's true, I've never done that. They've hung up on me before, but I've never hung up on them.

And again, keep in mind, don't be reactive. Before you hang up, state the expectation. I won't be talking to you this way. There's a new sheriff in town. I'm very motivated to get you to turn around here. Like you gotta stop asking for their permission, stop being afraid of them. There's nothing to be afraid of.

What power do they actually have over you? Everything is all make believe at this point. Yeah, that's true. And I think it's hard to update those dynamics even because when I was young, like parents always have power over their kids, but they don't have it over me anymore. And as far as your stepmom, it's like a bonus mom.

You already have a mom. You don't even need her. She's redundant. I mean, I'm being sassy here, but you get what I'm saying, you know? But it's true. Like your stepmom knows that in a sense. So even if your dad and your stepmom throw a hissy fit

and be like, well, we're not gonna hang out with you. Okay, great. You know, more attention to the woman. They definitely don't want to be number one grandma. No, no, she doesn't. She won't even be called grandma because she's not ready to be a grandma. Which one, stepmom or your mom?

Yes, yes, stepmom. Yeah, you have all the cards. You have all the power. And you just have to realize that and leverage that and use it. Yeah, thank you. That's really helpful. And I know I need to do it. I, thank you. That's really helpful.

And I know I need to do it. I've probably needed to do this for a long time. And I won't see it as scary. Hopefully it can be liberating. Well, if you really want to, if it doesn't go the way you hope, you can be like, Mom, Dad, you can't see my grandson until you call into this podcast and have a mediation. That would be so intense. I would do it for you.

I would, you know, a lawyer to, you know, I'm not a lawyer, but I'm not afraid of confrontation. So I'm serious, I'd be happy to help. I think you can do this on your own, by the way. I don't think this is this hard, you know, and I think you owe it to your husband and your son. Yeah, I agree with that. I really, I really do, and I think I just needed some words,

some tough words of encouragement. So do you think that I should wait until there's another incident to say this, or just out of the blue, should I say, hey, I've been thinking about our dynamic? Yeah, I would maybe write it out, write a letter first, write it out first, get your thoughts out, so that this, if nothing else, it's practice.

Read it to yourself, read it to your husband, ask yourself, does it fully articulate what I'm trying to say? In that letter, you might slip up, you might sound more passive than you want, you might ask for permission rather than send an expectation. So like kind of rehearse by writing a letter, right? If you get to the point where like, this is a really good letter, send the fucking right? If you get to the point where like,

this is a really good letter, send the fucking letter. If you get to a point where you're like, you know what? This was good practice. I want to say this to them face to face. I don't think you should do it face to face. I think you should maybe do it over a FaceTime or a phone call and yeah, call them up. Be like, hey, mom, dad,

there's something I'd like to talk to you about. Get them on the phone. I've been thinking about our dynamic and there's some new expectations I want to set with you going forward. I don't appreciate how you guys flippantly diagnose my son and just so you know I love you guys. I'm grateful overall of the life that you're giving me and I very much want you to be wonderful grandparents to our son. I am not interested in you being a second set of parents. I am not interested. We are not interested. You, me and your husband, we're

not interested in your feedback. I won't have it. I won't hear it. Just so you know, I currently do not feel comfortable leaving our son alone with you because I don't trust that you're not going to say things that, quite honestly, we don't want to be said to our son. And I'm only saying this because the expectation, I'm not asking you, this is an expectation, I am expecting you guys to respect, and if you don't, that's fine, but you will not be the grandparents

you want to be to our son if you can't respect our wishes. It's that simple. Oh wow, yeah, that was great. I'm gonna take notes when I listen back to this and say something very, very similar to that. That was strong, but it was loving. And then after you say something like that, and especially if it's like face to face, then you don't say anything else.

You think you see how they respond. Most likely, they will kick and scream and raise their voice. And you say, hey, guys, listen, I understand. Empathize there. I understand this might be hard to hear. Nevertheless, this is how it's going to be. We're not going to debate this. And if they start throwing out accusations or say, listen, again, you're not hearing me. This is exactly what I'm talking about.

If you're gonna continue to raise your voice and lecture me, this conversation is gonna end right now. So you can think about what I just said, and when you're willing to have an adult conversation and respect our wishes, you're welcome to call us back. Until then, this is the end of the conversation. Ooh, okay. You can do this.

Yeah, that, I really hope so. I know you can. Stop, yes, yes. What do you have to lose? Literally nothing. I may need to remind myself of that. But yeah, you're right. Nothing, all I want.

If your parents, let's say your mom, your dad and your stepmom give you the silent treatment for four months, I mean, yeah, you could be sad about it and be disappointed, but like, would your life materially change? No. In fact, you might feel a little like kind of, a little bit of weight off your shoulders, to be honest.

You might be like a good fuck mom. Yeah, a tiny bit of relief, that's true. I'm always anxious when we get together because I just hope that my son is gonna be what they want him to be, so. It gives a fuck what they want him to be. So that has to stop. You give a fuck what they want him to be. It gives a shit. I love my parents so much and I'm so grateful and I love Natalie's mom and I'm so

grateful for what Natalie's mom has done for us especially early in the first month but like and she is a great mom to Natalie, you know? But I promise, I'm not gonna raise my daughter the same way she raised her kids. Partly because, you know, it's a different dynamic, it's a different time, and I don't care. It's like, it's not, you know, she's our kid, she's not theirs.

And Natalie's mom and my parents would never do this, but in the moment, Natalie's mom is disappointed in us for how we choose to raise our daughter, I could give two fucks. Yeah. She doesn't get a vote. No, she doesn't. She's not her kid.

We're just so lucky that my parents and Nellie's mom get that and they understand that and they would never do that, you know? And we're just, we're very blessed and very lucky. Not every parent's like that. But this is up to you. You know, you're not the victim here. You have the agency and the power to make changes we're very blessed and very lucky. Not every parent's like that. But this is up to you. You're not the victim here.

You have the agency and the power to make changes and they're not gonna make changes and they just like, they'll never give up their power. And right now they are using power that you were giving them that they don't actually have. It's all fake, it's make believe. They are literally just acting as if they have the power that they don't actually have

because they're just daring you to actually take your power back because if they have the power that they don't actually have, because they're just daring you to actually take your power back, because you do have the power, because you're the one who can deny them access. You don't give them anxiety, they give you anxiety. You don't make them feel uncomfortable, they make you feel uncomfortable. Yeah, all of that is incredibly true.

So remind yourself of that, you know? You don't need their approval to know that you're being a good mom. Quite the opposite. They don't fucking your son does not need grandma and grandpa at every turn telling him what he's doing wrong. Your kid is going to grow up to be an anxious motherfucker because of his grandparents. You are protecting your son from people that, you know, you know how your parents made you feel.

Do you want that for your son? They're gonna do that if you give them access. Yeah, if you make no changes, that will trickle down to your son. Okay, well, that's really the only encouragement I need because I refuse to let that happen. So if that means I'm gonna have a conversation and it's hard for me, then I will.

Yeah, it's not even gonna be hard for you. It's gonna be hard for them. You're gonna feel good about this afterwards. Practice, like anything, practice makes perfect. Practice with your husband, have some fun with it. All right, here we go. This is let's role play with mom and dad. But like, I'm serious.

And then like, even if it's just a letter, you do not honestly, if that makes you feel more comfortable, write the letter, send it to them. And in that letter, if you only do write a letter, that letter should have clear expectations and they should have clear next steps. My expectation is X, Y, or Z. The next steps of how you guys can show me

that you're gonna respect your expectations are X, Y, or Z and see if they play ball. And if they don't, you just cut them off. And if all else fails, mediation. And if all else fails, mediation. And if all else fails, mediation, yeah. I would be so down for that, so would my husband, but I don't know if they would, but we'll see. Again, do they wanna be grandparents or not?

Again, you have all the power, you have no idea how much power you have in this particular dynamic. Like you literally deep down know that if your parents quote unquote cut you off for a few months, you would secretly be happy about it. Yeah. Yeah, I would. You know, you'd be sad overall. It's like, hey, I hate that this is happening.

And like, I don't want this for my family. I don't want to be, but like from a day-to-day standpoint, oh my God, the weight off your shoulders. That's true. So I do have that power so I can wield it with kindness but yeah I need to have this conversation. Yeah and you're not doing this to be mean or manipulative. You're certainly not doing it to do what they did to you. You're protecting yourself, your family, your son. You're setting new

expectations with them. You're taking your power back and you're doing it like you said with love and respect but you respect, but you're standing your ground. They'll come around. It's gonna be hard for them. It will. They'll kick and scream, they'll throw a fit. I mean, you know, in these little things you kind of threw in there, them hanging up on you,

they're raising your voice. They'll do all that and just ignore it, you know? Mom, dad, it's that simple. I don't have time for this. I don't have to listen to this anymore. When you wanna come around, let me know. And as much as you can, remain calm. If they raise your voice on the phone, mom, dad, okay.

If they hang up on you, oh my God, great. Just, all right, don't call them back. Their whole MO is to make you question yourself, doubt yourself, make you feel bad about yourself, like you're doing something wrong. The fact that you're just like hoping that your grandparents, your parents accept your son, fuck them. I know, that's true.

It's not fair to my son and it's really not fair to me, so, or my husband, so this has to happen. And my, I think my biggest worry is that I'm gonna get emotional and cry because my stepmom always just mocks me for that and I'm very emotional and that's how I react to. It's okay to cry. It's okay to cry and don't be ashamed if you end up crying in front of them

because that shows that you love them and you do care because what you want is a relationship with them. You're not doing this to be mean. You're not doing this to cut them off. Crying is not giving away your power. Enforcing a boundary is. So you can cry all you want

but just make sure you enforce that boundary. And the moment they realize that you're not fucking around and that you have the guts to actuallycing a boundary is. So you can cry all you want, but just make sure you enforce that boundary. And the moment they realize that you're not fucking around and that you have the guts to actually enforce a boundary, they will, I promise you, with their tail between their legs, come back and beg for forgiveness eventually. But you have to stand your ground. Don't apologize, don't ask for permission. This is the new way.

And the alternative is you guys don't have a relationship with your grandson or me, and the choice is yours. I want this, I want you guys to have it. But these are some non-negotiables. I have zero patience, and if you fuck up, you're out. Okay, all right, what's that? Your parents are bullies, and the only way bullies will only respond to bullies.

That's funny, my husband says that too. I mean, I had a conversation with very different, like this was a professional conversation. But this was a relationship that over the years, they had more power over me. Their whole MO was to make me think I should feel grateful to have access to them to be in their wheelhouse or whatever. And this is not the case anymore.

Professionally, we're making moves here over at The Vile Files. We are a giant show. People wanna be in business with us. And I had to have a conversation and I had to say, listen guys, listen, I don't really care if there's a relationship or not. Quite frankly, you guys should just be grateful

we're talking about you. It got heated, but like 10 minutes later decisions were made, you know, and I got a call and it was like And how did it feel getting to have that conversation with them? It was great, but you know, I'm not afraid of conversation, but yeah, I'm not even afraid of confrontation. It still felt good I tried playing nice for a long time and that's the thing. It's kind of's kinda how it always is. It's like, hey, let's play nice. Let's play nice. Hey, how can we work together?

How can we have a relationship? Blah, blah, blah. And when you do that, if they started in power, them playing nice will always be like, well, here's how you can work with us. Here's what you can do to work with us. Anytime they think that you fucked up, they'll act like they can punish you

or take things away from you. And I had to be like, listen, I don't give a fuck. In fact, I'm a great ally, I'm a worse enemy. And yeah, they came around fast. Nice. But it wasn't until, and it was, and I didn't get any joy doing that. I wanted to say, hey, let's be friends

and let's have mutual respect. But because they started in power, they're not gonna easily give that power up. And I had to remind, hey, let's be friends and let's have mutual respect, but because they started in power, they're not gonna easily give that power up. And I had to remind them that, like, I'm the one who doesn't need you guys. And I had to point that out and remind them of that, and quickly the tone changed. And that, I think, is an extra complication

when it's a parent, because I'm sure some parents always expect that they're gonna have power and control, but I'm sure they're gonna have power. Yeah, no parents wants to give that up. I mean, they literally made you. I mean, you're a dad, I mean, you're a stepmom, fucker. But I'm kidding. But like your dad, you know, he gave you life, you know?

I'm sure they made a ton of sacrifices for you. So I, from a parent standpoint, I get it. But as much as I love my daughter and as much as I'm gonna make every sacrifice in the world, that someday it's my job to let her be an adult. And it's my job to say, hey, I have 18 years. I have 18 years to teach my daughter everything I can to teach her to make decisions for herself, to make her feel like empowered, to face adversity. And once she's 18, I'm just there as a consultant. I'm there to help if she needs help,

but it's no longer my job. But that's how I- Yeah, I very much feel that way too. Sometimes some parents, the only control they have in their life is with their kids. And unfortunately, if that's the case, they usually take advantage of that. Until the kid tells them that they can't do that anymore.

So that's what's gonna happen. All right. All right, well, I'm very invested. So we definitely wanted an update. Well thank you. I really appreciated everything you had to say. It was just so spot on, so insightful. And I'm gonna incorporate your advice and I'll do it.

I don't understand how you could, that you could get 40 years of a relationship in a half an hour, but you did. And you are very good at what you do. I appreciate it, but honestly, these are just very common situations. Like, you know, the good news is you're not the only one to deal shit with like that.

The parent-child relationship is a fascinating one. I see both sides, so I get it, but just don't forget you're in control. All right, well, thank you. Can't wait to have my husband listen to this, and he's gonna say, yeah, I've been saying that forever, but you listen when Nick tells you, but it doesn't matter when.

It doesn't, but be sure to remind, show appreciation for your husband and that he has done that and give him the credit because he was there before I was and this will be a great thing to bond you guys, but you do have to step up because it is very frustrating, I'm sure, to him to watch you cower to your parents. I think it is, and that's not fair.

And I don't love anyone as much as I love my husband, so that's the relationship I have to prioritize. Yeah. They'll come around, I promise you. Okay. All right, well thank you. This was just the highlight of my week and congratulations again. Thank you so much, I appreciate it. All right, thank you.

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or use code viall at checkout. Caroway non-toxic cookware made modern. How's it going? Hello. My name is Isabelle. I'm 27 years old. How are you? I'm good.

How are you? How can we help? So I am trying to decide if I should quit my job and work for our biggest competitor. Okay. Walk me through kind of your decision tree. All right. So I have been with this company for two years now. One of those years was while I was in law school.

So I worked there as a law clerk. And then when I graduated and passed the bar, they extended a full-time position to me as an attorney, which, um, isn't something that they do for everybody. So, you know, obviously they were happy with me being, with my being there. And I started working, I went from being, working under one partner to working under a different partner once I became an attorney, kind of like a mentoring type role.

And him and I kind of just started having problems right away, which is strange because we had a great relationship while I was clerking. Like we'd go out, everything was fine. And then once he kind of took over that mentor role, it was just like a flip switch. That was hard for me to adjust to, because I just, I don't know, I think-

What flipped, I guess, how did it change? He used to be somebody that I felt like I can go to about anything. And obviously when you're starting a new job like this, you're gonna make mistakes. You're gonna have a lot of questions hoping that you don't make mistakes. And I thought we had like a very open kind of,

he kind of went from being someone who would just give me advice though, and hear me out on things to being, kind of having to be the bearer of bad news of, oh, here's everything that you're doing wrong. Here's why it was wrong. And he also has his own little quirks. Like he would be like, if I did something wrong, he would ignore me for like a week, two weeks at a time, or like wouldn't come into the office. And I'm not saying that's all about me, obviously, you know, I'm main

character in my own mind, but it just became a kind of situation where I didn't feel comfortable going to him. So then I wouldn't go to him as much. And I think that was something that became a problem. So they, I was with him from like June to October, November. And then around November, they put me with a new partner who just became partner at that time. So we're both kind of starting out now. So now I'm onto my third partner. I don't know how great that looks for me. And why did you switch from the first partner

to the second partner? Because the guy that I was working for, when I first became an attorney, the one I was having issues with is like the head honcho of my department. So they wanted him to kind attorney, the one I was having issues with is like the head honcho of my department. So they wanted him to kind of be the one who was mentoring me. I work for a very big firm, so there's like...

So your first switch had nothing to do with any issues. It was more their choice, not your choice, right? Yes. If anything, I probably would have asked to stay with him. But, you know, it is what it is. So it's not really that you're on your third partner per se, you've had one issue. Right.

Yeah, yeah. But I don't know, I'm obviously also dealing with just tons of self-doubt being somebody, you know, starting off at this new position. There's a lot of pressure on me. I'm very, very, you know, they could find anybody to replace me at any moment. And just the fact that it's not, that it didn't work out.

And when you say that, when you say that, where's that coming from? Are they reminding you of that? Like, why do you feel like to them you are so expendable? Because there's always a new wave of law clerks, always a new wave of people who are passing the bar, always a new wave of law clerks, always a new wave of people who are passing the bar, always a new wave of people that they're looking at to hire new attorneys. All right.

And this other job, like how did that opportunity come? If you were to leave a job, I want you to leave a job because it's a better opportunity, not because you're running from a problem, you know, because problems tend to follow you. And I don't know a ton about like the legal profession other than that's pretty cutthroat. And so that cutthroat energy, I can't imagine it's not going to be any different in the next place, you know. But like tell me about this new opportunity and why you think it might be different. So the type of work that I do is I work for injured employees, or I represent injured employees. So our competitors are insurance companies.

And we try to do as many social functions with insurance attorneys as possible to keep good relationships with them because they're the ones who offer money on cases. We take the money to settle the case. They're the ones who have to give us money. So the better relationships that we have with them, and I've worked in a pretty small date. So everybody knows everybody if one person likes you, you know, 10 will

follow that they know if one person hates you, everybody is going to find out why. So I try to go to these functions and snooze as much as possible whenever they're hosted, you know, have drinks and, you know, just have a good time. I want to be like, I thought that's what I was supposed to do, but I think I maybe just maybe gave the wrong impression, because obviously, and this is my problem, sometimes it comes out like, like we we all vent about frustrations with our job, you know, I don't say I hate it there or anything. I hate my boss, like of course not, but just a lot of banter.

I had a case with somebody that I had been out with socially through an event. They asked if they could call me. I said, sure. Then they said, hey, we've been talking at our firm. Your name came up at our Christmas party. And we're just wondering if you would at least have a sit down with us. That's all they said. They didn't say we want to offer you a job or anything like that.

But I could read between the lines. And I just said, at this time, I'm not interested. And that was back in like early January, late December, because I was just going through that transition with the other partner and hoping things would get better. And they just kind of haven't gotten much better. So now I'm like, how much would it hurt to at least hear them out? Other than the fact that I am paranoid that my job would find out, even if I just had to sit down with them.

Do you think they would? What's the risk there? I think they would find out, even if I just had to sit down with them. Do you think they would? What's the risk there? I think they would find out because, like I said, everybody talk, you know? And it's not like they are gonna say this is all confidential. I mean, maybe they would.

So why hasn't, now that you're on your third partner, it hasn't gotten better? He is a newer partner, and he's a very nice guy, but he's just a little shy and I'm already dealing with you know these hesitancies of not feeling like I'm good enough that I think I would work better with somebody who kind of forced me or not forced me but a little more assertive. Maybe this is an opportunity for you. Right I know that trust me. I'm a I'm a I know but I mean I don't want to

play this card or anything but I do also work at a firm that has 40 to 50 partners and every single one is a white man. So there's not many options for me. I'm I can relate to a white man on so many things, but I know at this other firm, there are a lot more female partners. So there's zero women partners at the firm you're currently working at? Zero. Do you have any inclination that they recognize

that deficiency and want to change that? Do they see you as an up-and-comer, someone that they want to invest in and maybe be their first woman partner? Or are you just, are you nothing more to them than an associate, a grunt, someone that they can boss around, but when it comes to ever making you a partner,

they'll always find a reason why not. Because listen, it is one thing not to have a ton of diversity, but it's quite another to have zero. And that's saying something. Yeah. And there are other female attorneys who are obviously higher up than me,

who, you know, there's always like the hush hush of, at the end of the day, they say it's always based on numbers. But I think when you have that many partners and there's not a single woman, it can't, it is what it is. But, you know, and I've gone back and forth with people close to my life about how that is something that I don't like. But there's that part of me that's like, well, if you just leave, how would they ever change? You know, if every great woman attorney that works there just leaves because of that problem,

there's never going to be a female attorney working there or female partner. Well, sure, but it's not your burden or your responsibility to suffer through so that this firm that you didn't start, you know what I'm saying? It's not your responsibility to make sure they have diversity. The opportunity has to be there for you to take advantage of it. And if there's really an opportunity, then great. If there's not, then you know, again, it's like,

yeah, you don't have to like make yourself suffer. So yeah, listen, I love where your head's at and I love that you, you know, but like listen, you gotta think smart here. So I guess it's unclear what you should do. I mean, this opportunity that you should do. I mean this opportunity that you're considering going to, you know, how many opportunities like that exist? I guess my question is, is these, the lawyers on the

other side, are they always poaching lawyers from your side? So no, it's done, it's been done before, but I mean if it, or there's a lot more people than I know and not everybody's talking about it, cause I haven't told anybody. You have an automatic in either way, I should say. Like if you come from an insurance firm and you wanna get a job at our firm, you have more of an automatic in.

And if you come from an employee's firm and you wanna work it, especially for bigger firms. So I don't know if this opportunity would go away, I guess is what you're saying, but. Not even this opportunity, for example, this particular opportunity, for all you know, I mean, you could follow up and be like, hey, like, yeah, we wanted to meet them,

but we don't know, you know, that's, we don't even know that. I guess I just, in general, if you left this firm, you know, like what are your prospects? You know, could you, if not them, could you go to somewhere else? Sure, of course, you know, like no matter what, I have my degree and there's going to be opportunities.

But I think something that I realized more so than when I was in law school is how niche so many areas of law are, how much of a frickin like, everybody knows everybody thing it is, you don't just want to hop around to different areas, because then you have to create a new reputation every area. You know, ideally, if I loved it here, and it was an amazing fit, I could do this forever. And by the time I've been doing this for 30 years, I would know everybody and I'd be at the top of my game.

Where if I just popped around to different places, like oh, this doesn't work for me, this doesn't work, like you're never going to build up that reputation. Yeah, so I mean, listen, a couple things. I don't know if it's a white man thing, but more of a man thing. Okay, I'm used to dealing with them, it's fine. But like, listen, guys in general,

they like to tease and give, you know, they were given a hard time, so now they wanna give a hard time. And you are working in a good old boy type of atmosphere. And so usually it's more like you have to earn their respect. They're not going to give it to you and they're going to test you and they're going to challenge you and they're going to put you down and they're going to make you feel like you're not good enough. And it's, I'm not justifying it, making sure it's okay.

And that's not the culture we try to have here, but that is a pretty common thing, especially in very traditional like cultures and climates, and the law culture, which I've never been a part of, but I've only heard that it's pretty fucking cutthroat. And these guys all had to pay their dues, and it's basically survival of the fittest. I am not telling you you should put up with this, but it's one of those things,

like I guess my next question was gonna be like, how career motivated are you? You have to start thinking about your priorities in life. You are only 27, I don't know what you want for yourself professionally, personally, but if you are very professionally motivated, which I am, so some people, I only say that because some people say, oh, you only care about your profession. I don't know. It's great to be professionally

motivated if you are. You just have to understand what your priorities are. If you are professionally motivated, then this could be an opportunity for you to earn their respect. Now, you only need to earn their respect because you're professionally motivated, not because you actually need their respect for your own personal value. You can use them as much as they're trying to use you. You're using them as a stepping stone. All right, fine. You're going to put me through the fucking gauntlet.

All right, I'll put up with their bullshit because I'm going to cut my teeth and I'm going to pay my dues. But you can always keep your options open. I guess what I'm saying is what I don't want you to do is quit this job because it's tough. Only to take another job that's only gonna be tough in a different way. And that's what I was saying.

I don't want you to run from a problem. I want you to go after an opportunity. Right now it seems like you're running from a problem. Right. You know? Well, so let me ask you this, because I completely agree with you. And that is my gut instinct,

which is why when they called me and asked to have a sit down, my answer was no, you know? But with that being said, I guess, you know, I look at like the people in my life who I looked up to, which was like my father, he was the breadwinner in our house, he was very career motivated, and he had a hard job.

But with that being said, like what every single time I asked him about it, he was like, but I love work. I love it. Like I love what I do. Even though I knew he had a job that was very, there was a lot of pressure on him. And I've heard of so many people who have jobs that they hate, you know, but they stick it out because they, it's how they support themselves. It's how they support their family. And that's what you do. You have, you have

a job to support your lifestyle, but then you have, you know, your social life on the weekends. And I always told myself, I was like, I'm never going to be like that. I always want to find something that like my dad had. I always want to have, I think that you can have both. You know, something that you're passionate about and makes you happy. And also you can make money doing. And I think it's just been hard for me to maybe realize that that's not, but like, it's not that I don't,

that I hate my job, but I'm definitely not excited every single day to go. Totally. How many years have you been out of law school? How long have you been a lawyer? I've been a lawyer, it'll be one year in June. So everything you said is valid, 100%. But you're one year into your professional career.

And yeah, find a job that you enjoy the work, even if it's tough. I fucking work really hard. I'm stressed out every fucking day, but I do love what I do. So go for that. But I'm 43 years old, and I didn't always have a job like this. I had to make a lot of different choices and try different things and get some things wrong and get some things right. You're only a year in.

And it's just, I remember my first couple years professionally. Yeah, it's new and you're in a situation, is this what I really want? So you being a year in, yeah. My advice to you right now is to kind of suck it up. Protect yourself, don't put yourself in any type of compromising in situations and ultimately be happy. But like, I guess what I'm saying is,

if you are professionally motivated, you're only 27 years old, as long as you still have, you know, the nights and weekends for your personal life to cultivate the relationships you want. I mean, are you in a relationship? Are you single? You are. So you're already in a relationship, you know?

So you got that going for you. That's a plus. You're only a little bit more than a year into your professional career. Now's not the time. You're not supposed to have your dream job yet. You know what I'm saying? You know, you're not supposed to necessarily have the job

that despite it being really hard, you deeply love, especially in the legal profession. I'm willing to guess that if you were to get some of these old white men in a vulnerable state, they'd be like, listen, I get what you're saying. I've been you. I've taken so much fucking shit. I used to hate this.

And now that they're in a position of power, there's a little bit of payback. And that's just kind of the culture. You have to ask yourself if that's a culture you want to be a part of. But at least give yourself an opportunity's a culture you want to be a part of. But like at least give yourself an opportunity to see if you can like do it, you know, fight through it, you know, get your, you know, thicken your skin so to speak, make it work with this

new partner who, you know, it's an opportunity. Maybe you, him being more demure and passive is an opportunity for you to show your willingness to step up for confrontation. You're gonna have to massage the relationship with him to make sure he feels like he's getting the credit, but if you can shine where he can't, that's a huge opportunity for you, especially in a man-woman dynamic. You're in an environment where the,

I'm guessing the stereotypes and the assumptions is that you're the one who's supposed to be more demure and you're supposed to be the one who's afraid of confrontation. And if you are working for a male partner who's all those things but you're not, you'll be seen as the killer, the one who's like, they're going to you.

So in five years, reassess. In five years, you're like, I still fucking hate this. Maybe you don't even wanna be a lawyer in five years, but don't quit yet, you know, it's only been a year Yeah, you know, I don't know many young lawyers Who a year into their legal career are like love the work. This is amazing. I think they all fucking I don't know a single one and that's what's not comforting It's like all of my friends are like going through it as well and I'm like is this really what we're doing guys? And some of them are gonna realize they don't want to be lawyers.

You know that's true but it sounds like you kind of love being a lawyer. You know you got to learn a little resiliency I think. Give it a little more time. Right now is one year into your professional career as a 27 year old adult like again this isn this isn't, if you could find your dream job at 27, great. But most I'm guessing the numbers incredibly small of the amount of lawyers who at 27 years old age, one year into professional career are like, yep, I made it. This is it. This is it.

This is where I want to be. You know, they all had to pay their dues. You know, maybe you get to that point where you are the first woman lawyer in the seat, you know, and you have the respect and you have, and you're 30 in your mid to late thirties, you know, and then it's, then you see it differently. Yeah. It might seem far away, but it comes fast. I know. No, I feel away, but it comes fast. I know.

No, I feel good about everything that you said. I was hoping that's what you would say, but I was like, what are the chances that he's like, oh, these aren't normal feelings, and you need to get out of there if you feel this way, and I just need to hear somebody tell me. I'm not a lawyer. I don't know what it's like to work in your profession,

so take my advice with whatever grain of salt you want But from where I sit these sound like normal feelings and you just have to decide whether you actually want to be a lawyer or not I'm not contoning this behavior. I'm not saying it's okay I'm just saying it is what it is and I do think to a certain extent, you know Maybe being the old guy here or whatever, that younger generations of which you are a part of are just a... Now we have a culture of everyone's more aware of therapy and boundary setting and being treated a certain way and that's great and that is great. And I'm glad the young people are learning these things

faster in life. But there is something to be said about paying your dues. There is something to be said about having resiliency and toughing it out and improving not only to other people, but mostly to yourself, that you can fight through uncomfortable situations, because life's uncomfortable. Nowadays, your peers,

all these other people you're talking about, the upside is most people in your generation don't have the resiliency or the chops to get through it, because nowadays we're all been told that everything is supposed to be easy and happy, and if you're not happy, then find something else. And yes, listen, I'm not telling people how to live their life. But professionally motivated people, if you

want to be the king of the castle, if you want to be a one percenter, those people all paid their dues, you know, and they all have their stories. So you just have to decide what's a priority for you. But the good news for you is like you're competing against people who aren't going to be as resilient and even though maybe the numbers are large now, they're going to dwindle faster than they did in the past. So that is another opportunity for you. So again, checking yourself every six months, you know, there's a difference between being resilient and putting up with like toxic, abusive behavior, you know? Right.

You know how to measure that. But just to reiterate my point, you're not supposed to be at your dream job yet. Right. Yes. Thank you very much. Well, how to measure that. But just to reiterate my point, you're not supposed to be at your dream job yet. Right, yes, thank you very much. Well, hopefully this was helpful. It was very helpful, I really appreciate it. And I do think in general, other than obviously being smart about like, hey, making sure that people don't find about you,

it's always good to hear out opportunities. It's always good to listen. You do have to consider rumors and things like that. So keep your ears open for opportunities, but I would really, if I were you, I would spend at least the next year making this relationship with this new partner work. And knowing that he's the partner and you're the associate, it's more your responsibility to make it work than his. He doesn't have to make it work. He's the partner. So see if you can make it work, he's the partner. So, see if you can make it work, do whatever you can,

and then see if, then evaluate a year or two from now. Because if nothing else, even if you decide, you know what, bullshit, you'll be glad, the work and sacrifices you made, you'll be better for it. It won't be a waste. Okay, all right? All right, well take care. Keep us posted on how things go, and sacrifices you made, you'll be better for it. It won't be a waste. Right. Okay, all right? All right.

All right, well take care. Keep us posted on how things go, what you decided to do, and hopefully you can pass on some words of wisdom in the future with whatever update you have. Here's hoping. It'll be okay. Thank you so much. It'll be okay, I promise.

Your feelings are definitely normal and valid, that's for sure. Okay. All right, Take care. Thank you. Yeah. Bye bye. Thanks for listening. Don't forget to send in those questions at asknickofthevilefiles.com.

We'll see you tomorrow. Bye.