The Viall Files - E722 RR - LIB’s Chelsea and Jimmy Plus Kate Middleton, VPR, RHOBH, and Summer House with Amy Kaufman

Episode Date: March 19, 2024

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Reality Recap Edition! Today, we are joined by The LA Times’ Amy Kaufman to chat about all things reality television. First, we talk about where Kate Middleton is - and if we believe that people saw her out and about but no one got photo or video evidence of it. Then, we talk about Bachelor Nation’s Daisy being spotted in a music video (with some interesting lyrics). Then, we talk about Summer House and whether Lindsay tried to be Ariana but ended up becoming Sandoval. Next, we talk with Love is Blind’s Chelsea and Jimmy - asking everything about their experience, relationship, and current status. Finally, we talk about Vanderpump Rules and Real Housewives of Beverly Hills.  “I think Scheana should pick Tom.”  Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes. To Order Nick’s Book Go To: http://www.viallfiles.com  If you would like to get some texting advice send an email to [e-mail] with “Texting Office Hours” in the subject line! To advertise on the show, contact [e-mail] or visit https://www.advertisecast.com/TheViallFiles  THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: ZOA Energy - Available online and at a store near you. Find out where you can find it at https://www.ZOAEnergy.com and fine retailers like Amazon, 7-Eleven, Costco, Circle K and more. Dreamland Baby - Go to https://www.dreamlandbabyco.com and enter my code VIALL at checkout to receive 20% off sitewide + free shipping. This offer is for new and existing customers! MeUndies - Get 20% off your first order, plus free shipping, at https://www.MeUndies.com/VIALLFILES   Goodr - If you want to support the show and pick up a pair, goodr is giving Viall Files listeners FREE SHIPPING on your first order! Go to https://www.goodr.com/Viall and use code Viall.  Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @amykinla @ciaracrobinson @alison.vandam @justinkaphillips @leahgsilberstein @dereklanerussell Timestamps: 00:00 - Intro 08:24 - Kate Middleton 11:22 - Jay Shetty 12:19 - Daisy Music Video 21:47 - Lindsay Hubbard 38:18 - Jimmy and Chelsea 01:29:33 - Lindsay and Carl 01:35:54 - VPR 02:01:25 - RHOBH 02:09:43 - Outro   

What's going on everybody? Welcome back to a new and exciting episode of the Vile Files Reality Recap Edition. I am your host, Nick. Joined by the household, we got sweet, sweet, sweet boy Justin here. Ali, Lea, and Sierra are all with us. And our very special guest returning to the show. Coming from the LA Times, the one, the only, Amy Kaufman. Nick. How you doing, Amy?

Good, how are you? It's so good to have you back. Now you're a dad. Now I'm a dad. Everything's different about you. Really? Good, how are you? It's so good to have you back. Now you're a dad. I'm a dad. Everything's different about you. Really? No. No, okay.

Well, we are excited, lots to get into today. We got Chelsea and Jimmy zooming in towards the end of this episode. Lots of discussions going on about them. Are they a couple, are they not? Chelsea recently went on, did some other interview where she gave a little bit more context as some sort of like pocket call from Jimmy.

Anyway, we have them on together, a little bit of a he said, she said, so we're gonna hold them both accountable. Boom, boom, boom. No more like, do you get to say something about someone and do we get to respond? So excited to have them both. I'm really, you know,

because there's a lot of burning questions between. Yeah, they didn't ask enough at the reunion about Jimmy and Chelsea. I agree with that. They really like left them out. So to your point, maybe for some reason they are coming off or Jimmy specifically came off better than the other days. What was your overall read of them?

Because I felt, I watching it was very, I was more, I think Chelsea has done an amazing job of, and truly I think Chelsea isn't getting enough credit, or maybe she is, but she's done an amazing, she got a lot of heat. Obviously the Megan Fox whole thing that was national news, it really became a moment. And she handled it as well as anyone could.

She was able to laugh at herself, she was able to have fun with it. I don't usually recommend diving into the comments, but when she did, she wasn't fighting with people, she was having fun, and she's only come off more and more likable as how she's handled herself coming off the show, which is very, very difficult to do. And most, especially Love is Blind cast members

do a very poor job of that because there's this like instant fame. There's a lot of feeling themselves. And Chelsea has done, I think, a fantastic job of navigating that. But yeah, they've also been leaning into like, are they together? Are they not together? Is this for Cloud? Is it just to keep the story going?

Meanwhile, like now Chelsea's kind of like throwing a little shade. But anyways, so we have them together. And hopefully we can get to the bottom of it. And also Jimmy mentioned that he wanted to like shoot a shot with AD? Like where did that come from? We also heard a comment, I've heard a rumor that

in the pods, Jimmy referred to himself as Christian McCaffrey. And that wasn't aired. I think Chelsea said that. Chelsea said that, yeah. Yeah, Chelsea said that that was his celebrity lookalike. But like, I mean, no. But did he say that, or is that actually? Christian McCaffrey is not Megan Fox.

No, he is not, correct. But he is a- He is with Olivia Colman. It would have been nice too if they would have kept that in the show though, so it wasn't just like Chelsea out of nowhere being like, and by the way, I look like Megan Fox. Well, Chelsea still brought up the conversation, but.

Jimmy had one. Jimmy had one too. I agree with you that Chelsea handled that so well. I was like, literally everyone online is calling you like hideous. That's so mean. And she's just laughing. She deserves a gold fucking star, an A plus.

She is, and we've been hard on her and like, she's been so. She's good sport. She's been such a good sport. And I say this because like, you know, I think a lot of people like reality TV people, especially how we cover the show, you know, we always try to acknowledge that when we're talking

about all these shows, for the vast majority of the time, we're talking about people we've never met in person. We're talking about a TV show and we're responding to the TV show, and just another reminder for the people listening to this show. And like, we reserve the right to be wrong because we're talking about characters.

Now, sometimes, especially in Bravo World, it's a little different. We have met some of these people. We have interacted with some of these people, and that's where it kind of becomes interesting. But when it comes to Bachelor, or Love is Blind, we don't fucking know these people. We recognize that these shows can

potentially be edited so we're not talking about them as the people we're talking about their characters but as we see them interact online and in the world then that might be able to change a little bit but yeah it's like if you go out there and we all know the whole celebrity lookalike game but if you're gonna play that game in public it it's a tough role to navigate. If I go around and start talking about good looking celebrities, people have told me I look like, I better be prepared for some feedback.

Did you guys ever do that when you were, I don't know, you're not single either? No. When you were single and dating, if you were on an app and someone was like, you look like this person, or would you ever throw that out there or no? No, if someone wants to say that,

you always gotta downplay it, even if you've been, because it's a recipe for disaster. And I'm not trying to like, but Jimmy, he's a fine looking fellow. I mean, listen, it's all relative. Well, I think part of the appeal initially, whenever Love is Blind started, I was like, okay, these people aren't like, like on The Bachelor,

it's like the girls sometimes feel really unrealistic looking. Yeah, there's, yes, they're pulling, what do, how do we say on this show? Conventional. Conventional looks. Did you feel like when you were The Bachelor, that you're never gonna admit to this, I'm sure.

But when you were The Bachelor, did they cast women that you thought, in your real life, you could have actually gotten with if you walked up to in a bar? Or were you like, mm, these are hotter than usual? Like, did they cast women that you think, if you were not the Bachelor, you could have had a chance with, physically?

Could have had a chance with? Yeah. There's no way I can answer that. I know! I shouldn't. Without. Gotcha. Let's just say I was stressed night one.

I really wanted to find, I wanted it to work out. And after night one, I was stressed. I feel like they're like, I mean, it was bed of flannock. Like there have been bachelors who've been like, yeah, I would never be able to get with the caliber of like attractive women that were here. But back to Love is Blind, I think like, I like that it's more, it's people who I am friends with

and who I see on the street in normal life, whereas it feels more like Beauty Pageant Queen on some other shows. So not to say they're unattractive, but. I also do like the fact that it's like they take from the same city, but it's like real people with real jobs, you know what I mean? Where it's not so much like LA where it's like,

I'm a dog walker, but like I really wanna be an actress. Like, you know what I mean? Yeah, people are so offended by the number ranking. And I'm just like, if you're gonna do the number ranking, everyone in their mind, it's like, what am I? And in their mind, they're thinking one through 10, but it's not, it's always five through 10. Because people are deeply offended

if you use numbers like four, five and six. That's a good point, yeah. But five is average, and average is pretty damn good. Yeah, but people, it's just like, you're a six, it's like as if you called them a two. That is as if you'd call someone a two. But I've never heard anybody say anything below a five, so that's a really good point.

That's true. Those are awful. That would be like, ugh. But that's like, in what world is everyone average looking or above? Listen, growing up in Wisconsin, I definitely, you know, I'll shamefully admit that I probably saw myself as like a nine or 10 and then moved to LA and I was like, holy shit, I'm a five, you know?

And then not to mention you go on the Bachelor and you have everyone comparing you. I mean, I got compared to like the Ghostbuster villain, Ghostbuster 2 villain, John Lithgow. I had a tough run of comparisons. And you know, people commenting on all your facial features, like my nose is fucking whatever the fuck, you know? We don't do the number thing?

I don't do the number thing. Are you more of a hot or not? Just am I attracted to you or not? Yeah. Smash or pass? Literally. Smash or pass. Exactly.

So would you rather be a six or a hard pass? Smash or pass. Smash or pass. Exactly. So would you rather be a six or a hard pass? A hard pass. I was like, yeah, it's depending on who. I agree. A pass and I don't need to know why. Yes. It's like, if you're not attracted to me, cool. But like one's like, you could be better.

Six is above average is all I'm saying. Yeah, you're not wrong mathematically. And I just, the math is mapping. Anyway, have we found Kate Middleton? That's quite the segue. We have not found Kate Middleton, but now people are saying that she has been found and she was out with her family, but no one happened to take a photo. Okay. They're the worst liars of all time, the royal family.

I have a confession it was a mean awake On the stroll, you know, you do kind of look like Kate Milton. Yeah That's my Megan Fox Justin's celebrity look alike Kate Middleton and Megan Fox combined so we're led to believe that she was spotted by So we're led to believe that she was spotted by other Brits. So this says, Kate, who underwent abdominal surgery, was reportedly seen looking, quote, happy, relaxed, and healthy on a visit to a local farm shop with William near their home in Windsor, England on Saturday. Not one paparazzi, not one fan photo. Not one camera phone, not one grainy like,

one of these selfies where it's like. Because I'm so glad that the future leaders of the country can go visit a local farm shop with no security, no one noticing, but we can notice that they're happy and healthy. Yeah, make it make sense. They're kind of smart though. This is definitely the royal family's doing,

but they failed the whole. I wanna know the tabloid hierarchy. Yeah. Like the sun, how trashy is that in the UK? Like, is that a reality blurb? Right. Is that like life in style or is that like Us Weekly? That's what's confusing because I feel like during the like Amber

and Johnny trial, like it was very much like the sun said. And I'm like, yeah, to me, I'm like, I feel like it's like the National Enquirer for us, but I guess not. Maybe Daily Mail equivalent? I don't know, I'm always seeing Love Island stuff on the Sun. Right, that's why I thought it was like a trashy tabloid, but I don't know, they get court documents and everything,

so I don't know, it's a little... Well, you should know this, you work for the LA Times. When it comes to a publication, I don't know. How does the LA Times decide like how high brow they wanna be or like how into the- Inciting another, like taking news from another outlet? Or just like, we talk about pop culture and reality TV, we're joking around, we don't consider the self

as some sort of journalistic outlet here, this is an entertainment show. You know, certain publications, I feel like, have gone from more real reporting news to like part of the pop culture conversations or part, you know, like not, how do these outlets decide to do what? I think like for Kate specifically, like I know they wrote about the Photoshopping

of the AP thing that they took the photo back and I think like critics have weighed in on like the just the scrutiny that the royals are under but I don't like running like a thing like this that's like she was seen on a farm. No, I don't think so. Actually, I have an off-topic, unplanned question for you. Okay. Why is there a clown nose? Oh, this is my stress ball. Oh, okay, okay. Yeah.

Yeah. Jay Shetty. You did a whole nice little thing on him. It recently came out about him being a potential fraud. Well, did you read The Guardian story? I did. And what were your takeaways? Did anyone else read it?

I did not. Little promo here. The Guardian story? I did. And what were your takeaways? Did anyone else read it? I did not. Little promo here, the LA Times Festival of Books. I will be interviewing Jay Shetty. You will be. On the stage there, and I will be asking him about this. You will. Yes, it's in April. Nice little tease.

I'm very interested. Yeah, I think my biggest takeaway is, I think this all sounds like a very crafted career that maybe even his trips, it was more about knowing the power that it would be to say, I'm formerly a monk or I studied with monks because that gives him instant credibility with anyone who listens. Do you think Daisy's music video

is giving her credibility with? No, unfortunately, I don't think it is. I say good for her though. I say good for her. Have you seen this Amy? No. Daisy, arguably the most likable person from this season, arguably, one of the finalists of Joey's season

and potential Bachelorette candidate. What was that lines? She'll say it again. Lick on my sack. Lick on my sack and suck on my nuts. Lick on my sack and suck on my nuts. Lick on my sack and suck on my nuts. I can't. That's like the closest thing we've ever gotten to from the windows, the walls,

to the blip blip blip my balls. I'm not OK. That's a good song. Who is this individual? Well, Daisy is in the music video. Wait, you missed her singing part. Oh, yeah, we missed her. I'm not OK.

Please, is it OK? So you're gonna do it all. I love that her part is like this sweet, like, I just want to love you. And he's like, yeah, that's fine. But you can suck on my nuts. Do we know what like the what's the story of the song? The story, like, what does the song mean? Yeah, like, is it are these two lovers like telling two sides at the same is this like jimmy and chelsea? Like if you open the youtube link the video doesn't exist anymore. Sorry amy's having We're dying over here

Wait did the daisies? So the video doesn't exist on youtube anymore so we were able to watch it through reddit because it was embedded So like this video is, they've taken it down for whatever reason. How long has it been, was it available on YouTube like a day ago? I'm sure, I mean people pulled it on the internet so I'm sure it was.

I need to know that person's name. Is this, is ABC trying to get ahead of like their next Bachelorette? Well, they're too late. It resurfaces. Is she gonna be the next Bachelorette? If she does, she needs to make a music video, that should be her promo.

That's her date. Yeah, all the guys coming. She can be the Bachelorette on the table. I mean- And we will write it. She was clearly doing a favor for a friend. How do you know? I was like- Or he was doing a favor for her. Yeah. Isn't it his music video?

Yeah. Right. Maybe she was trying to- What's the artist's name? Well, I don't think- Get him on here, please. Well, he definitely looks like a guy who could have been obsessed with Daisy his whole life, and he wrote this song.

His rapper name is Abe's with a dollar sign for the S. Oh my God. So A-B-E dollar sign. What date did this come out? What time period are we talking about? They removed it, so it's unclear. We can't find an original year. Wait, but is this supposed to make her look bad, or what's the vibe? I don't think it- She looks great in the video. We just found it, it's unclear. We can't find an original year. Wait, but is this supposed to make her look bad

or what's the vibe? I don't think it. She looks great in the video. We just found it, she looks great. I mean, she's. She's a good friend for making a cameo in a song that's insane. I was gonna say, it's also like Reddit.

Yeah, listen, it's 2024, we now live in a world where everyone, I don't care if you're from Minnesota or LA, you can be, you can produce your own content. You can make your own videos. You can make your own videos. You can like, I think it's, yeah, we're all having fun, but like, listen, this guy tried. And he reached out to his friend, Daisy, who like maybe has like a little background in like choir

and was like, hey, do you wanna sing this? She sounded good, I thought honestly. Yeah, she said yes. Probably not thinking, well, what if I get casted on The Bachelor, do you wanna sing this? She sounded good, I thought, honestly. Yeah, she did. And she said yes, probably not thinking, well, what if I get casted on The Bachelor? Am I gonna regret this? And like, yeah, we're all having a bit of fun, but like, good for them for trying.

When she's standing there like, wow, like this man, these lyrics, like, I will, I will lend my voice to him. Like that does, I'm like, girl. Yeah, no, it's not, you know. This was 2021. Oh, three years ago. Oh, I was kind of hoping it was much further back than that.

So why do you guys show me that? I mean, I'm just wondering when like, yeah, he asked Daisy to do this. If she was like, like, just sure, I'm down. I want to be super helpful. But like, can we talk about Lick on the Lick on these Nuts and Suck on? What? I didn't tell you. And it actually says it's over. Did you go? I didn't tell you, and it actually says. It's, I've heard it again.

I wonder if he showed her the whole song. You can lick on my sack, suck my nuts now. Yeah. So it's not even grammatically correct, but. I added an and. Yeah. A conjunction. But this is a 2021 version of like,

every guy was like, what's my thing? How do I get chicks? You know, a lot of guys picked up the guitar back in the day, you know, and it wasn't because they're obsessed with music. It's all about getting attention from girls. Like, I don't like spoiler, most straight men like when they're growing up, they're just figure out what is their thing they can hope to help them attract women. Sports, playing guitar, being a rapper, sucking on them nuts, whatever it is. Like, he's trying to impress the ladies, you know? Yes.

Well, my question is kind of related to what we talked about last week with Like Love is Blind and like Sarah Ann and the Jeremy of like people, you said people don't go on these shows without wanting to further their career or an opportunity? Like do we think that Daisy tried to be a musician and then was like, hey, I guess I'll go on The Bachelor and see what happens.

I don't care how sweet Daisy or any of these women come across or how authentic they come across. And I think watching this show, it seems like Daisy genuinely has real feelings for Joey. I think two things can be true at the same time. You can show up to these shows as a sane person and by sane because I think you're insane to show up for a show truly thinking

and only showing up for love. To show up for Love is Blind or The Bachelor being 100% there for the right reasons, I think is insane. To show up for a reality TV show and truly be there for the right reasons, I think is insane. To show up for a reality TV show and truly be there for the science experiment, knowing that this will be recorded and edited in a way you have no control over, and that you're there because this is your only chance

at love, that's delusion. But I think you can show up for this experience, knowing that it's gonna be a once in a life opportunity, it's gonna be crazy and cool, and if you're open to it, and if you're open to showing up for this experiment, and that's what it is on both of these scenarios, and immersing yourself in these environments, and you choose to go with it

and be open to whatever this process is, you can also develop real feelings. And then after the fact, you can decide whether these real feelings are authentic or not, or you're just a product of the environment. You know, that's the emotional journey all these people go on. So I think, yes, I think Daisy,

like every other woman on this show showed up in a hopes of like, what could this happen? Some of these people show up for these seasons, like who's that, Trevor. Completely disingenuous. Having a girlfriend, thinking they can actually narrate their story, having a whole plan, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna say that, taking notes, and some people do that.

Some people show up being like, I don't know, like the idea of becoming famous seems cool to them, but they don't really know what that means. They don't have a plan, they didn't sign up for us, they didn't expect to do this, but do they wanna be famous? Of course! And can they show up and fall in love

and not know what to expect? Absolutely. And I think Daisy falls into the ladder bucket, I think, but not one of these people who show up for The Bachelor hate attention, don't hate the idea of becoming famous, they don't, you know what I'm saying? They're all open to it. At some point in their life, they were the center of attention, don't hate the idea of becoming famous. You know what I'm saying? They're all open to it.

At some point in their life, they were the center of attention. They were the it person at their school play. You know what I'm saying? They were the one in their group of friends that thought like, you're our Vinny Chase. You're gonna be our, you're gonna make it in our small town and you're gonna want who's gonna be famous.

And like, every single person who ends up on these shows has thought of them potentially as a star, whether that ended up being true or not. Every single one. You don't show up on these TV shows, we've all seen it go terribly wrong for so many people. And you don't show up knowing that this could go terribly wrong for you without thinking,

but I'm a star, you know? And I don't fault anyone for that. So like- Because you have the same impetus. Yeah, I mean, like, I was just like, the idea of becoming someone, sure. And I didn't expect to, I expected to go back to work. In fact, I did go back to work,

but did I hate the idea that somehow, some way, this could turn into something greater than I ever imagined? Of course not. Yeah. You know? And yes, I literally had a conversation once. I will never forget being drunk at a bar in my 20s

and one of my buddies, when entourage was a big thing, being like, you're our Vinny Chase, man. And like the delusion that went in my head. My God. But imagine all these, you know, like you don't think people from small town, whatever. No, no, just those words specifically. I mean, what do you,

we've all said cringey things in our life, you know? But I'm saying these are the conversations friends have with each other that propel them to go on shows like this, that give them the confidence that they can even do this. You know, somewhere, some, you know, like we've talked about, many people told Chelsea, you look like Megan Fox. And she was like, yes, I do. And I'm going to go on

a TV show and I'm going to become famous. I'm the next, someone planted that seed in her head, you know, and all our friends have played a role in our own delusion and allowed us to go on these fucking shows and you know, roll the dice. This is Daisy's delusion. Yeah. And this is Daisy's delusion. I was like, do we also think that since it's being scrubbed from the internet that she never thought this would resurface again?

I also just looked for Abe's and I couldn't find him. Yeah. I like to think that he's like a lawyer or like a doctor or something. He's selling insurance right now. Yeah, he's like, absolutely not. This video does not exist. Well, this is his big break.

He should come back now. Wait, so what's worse, telling someone to lick on their nuts or Lindsay accusing someone of their sobriety breaking? Oh. Psycho King. Lindsay, by far, by far, this was a rough episode. I just feel like this is a rough season for Lindsay,

but she did it to herself. I'm sorry. Amy, what are your thoughts? On Lindsay and Carl? Yeah. OK, so I got into a lot of text discussions after the fact about this and- When you say after the fact.

After the episode, sorry. And there were, I did have some girlfriends being like, okay, but like, yes, I know clearly Lindsay generally is not looking great in this relationship. But does any, all of my friends had this, like, spidey sense that, like, maybe there is some truth to Carl's aggression being legitimate. That, like, that he, like, has kind of...

Not, like, this, what did she say, Jekyll and Hyde division in his personality, but that there is, like, like, he's coming off a little too rosy. I have to say, though, I'm like, Lindsey has pretty much portrayed her dark side throughout the seasons. So I also think there's a lack of self-awareness there where I'm like, if somebody was accusing me after two years of working on myself in sobriety, my brother's OD'd and died. Like for that to be the accusation from your fiance, like that to me, like that's projection versus like an analytical response to whatever situation is happening. Yeah, it's just, like, it's sad that she is clearly insecure about her drinking and the way that it manifests.

And so her only reaction is to just, like, turn it on him. Like, that's how she deals with her insecurity. Is it possible that Carl is a reality professional and super hyper aware of cameras so that he can turn it off and on knowing he's being filmed? It's possible, but I think unlikely. I think the way she is describing someone like Carl to be easily triggered and hyper emotional,

like she referred to Carl as a Sandoval. We've all seen Tom Sandoval operate in this world outside of being filmed, right? And what Tom Sandoval has, if nothing else proven, is that he can't help but be himself. Regardless of what criticism may come his way, he is who he is. Right, but Carl is much more,

Carl is, I think, more conscious of his image. But she is describing him as some hyper, easily triggered, heart, you know, like unpredictable person, and he just comes across as very measured. He's, is he, like, you know, when she was like fighting with him, is he getting irritated and frustrated

and I guess raising his voice? I mean, we've gone from trying to like point out like, oh, you know, you can't raise your voice to like, acting like people in relationships aren't aren't aren't humans like they're supposed to be these monotone people when they get in a fight. When Carl might slightly raise his voice, he's clearly irritated. Is that a sign that behind camera like when cameras aren't being aired, that he's some sort of volatile reactive person? No, not necessarily. I think it was more like, you know,

they did some flashback clips to some of their, like I think he's probably, I'm just, I- Well, he was an addict. Yeah, he was. He was Cocaine Carl. That was before he- Fine, but he could still, you know, possess those attributes.

Well, Lindsay's playing into the old Carl. And you can tell that he's going through this mind game of I'm actively trying to be different, but you're telling me that I am the old Carl. Yeah, and we're just not seeing any signs of it. And I just, boy, that would be some really incredible work that Carl's done to overcome his addiction, but also be able to control his anger so much

when he's hyper triggered in these intense atmospheres. He went from this kind of broken person who couldn't control his own actions and substance abuse problems to now being able to be able to like turn it on and off on camera. I don't know. I'm just saying like, Lindsay is,

Lindsay is for all of what she is, she's smart, okay? And she came out of the gate saying, I was blindsided by him dumping me. Like, you know, you're gonna be, he called the cameras, he's like this unfeeling monster, knowing that we were gonna see this whole season. So like... Yeah, which is, it's shocking.

And I also don't think... So could she be that disconnected from the reality of it? I don't think she remembers. I'm like, to be completely honest. From drinking? Yeah, if you start it, she starts drinking at like noon,

every day throughout the weekend. So I'm also like, by the time they're having this discussion and I'm like, I don't know about. Those fights were like ongoing, it wasn't just the weekend. But what I'm saying is that I'm like, also being somebody who like doesn't drink,

being around a bunch of people that aren't drinking and Carl being okay with it. I'm like, that takes a lot of work to get to because even on a night when I used to go out and drink, if I was the one not drinking, I have zero patience for people and he does. So I'm saying for them to get into a car and him be irritated and then for a fight to start out and him saying, you're the one that's causing this. I'm not, I just want to go home and you're saying that there's an issue. I think she's perpetuating an issue because she's intoxicated and thinking that she's reading into things

that aren't actually happening and creating a narrative for him. So that's why I also thought it was rich that she was saying that you're changing the narrative when I'm like, what narrative? There should be a discussion between two people. She's sticking to her narrative. Exactly.

And I also think there's an element of her thinking she's gonna get the benefit of the doubt as a woman on reality TV. I think there's a little bit of that. I think she just assumes that people will believe her. And I think she's gotten a, yeah. To me, it's like she honestly tried to start, I mean, when she called Carl Sandoval,

I don't even think that was a Freudian slip. I think that was strategy. I think she knew what she was saying. I think she was planting the seed to the audience. I mean, it's Lindsay PR. You know? Yeah, it's the second time she's done this too because she said that Ariana,

the only other person invited to the White House was Ariana. Like she is planning to be the next Ariana. She's hyper, I think she's trying to be the next Ariana and becoming the next Tom Sandoval. Actually, it's backfiring. Yeah, because if, but what is Sandoval? Sandoval is a story that happened on reality TV that perpetuated the show itself

and became conversations greater than the show. And that has propelled Ariana into this like stardom that goes well beyond Vanderpump. And I think that's the dream for all these Bravo characters to be bigger than the show itself. And right now, I don't think what Lindsay and Carl's drama is anywhere close to what Scandival has become. But if it is, it's picking up steam.

Like, now we're, like every week we're talking about, I can't believe Lindsay is like, this is her angle. Like this whole gaslighty type of attitude to like weaponize Carl's addiction against him. And she is becoming the villain in this story because it seems so delusional. And it seems, like to your point, like how could she, I am, she came on this show

and told a very believable story, which, and that's what, she just on this show and told a very believable story which, and that's what, she just left out all the context. It was just, it was all about being blindsided. It was about, you know, hey, I know we're on a TV show, but this is our real lives and we were really engaged and how can you do that to someone you love despite us being on a TV show?

Watching the show, I think it's triggered, like I was triggered, I know what it's like. I've been in relationships where it's just like, that person is always fucking like, making you defend every fucking action. Everything you do is an accusation, everything you do is some out of pocket, like oh my God, what are you,

like you can't get mad, you can't raise your voice, because it's like, Lindsay is yelling at Carl and asking him why are you yelling. She won't even, like that's, yeah yelling. She won't even play with him, you know what I mean? Like where it's just like he made a joke and she's like, yeah, that's not funny. Or like when he's like, hey, can you hang out with me? And she's like, what do you want, man? But then as soon as the other people came,

she was like, okay, let's have a drink and have fun. So dismissive, so demeaning, like makes him feel less than. Like, you know, and we've all been in relationships like that and Lindsay is, and I think you're right, I don't think she has any idea of how she, I don't think there's, I think she's very smart but I think she lacks some self-awareness of how she comes across that kind of very calculated

PR Lindsay. So you don't think there's anything the rest of the season that could come out between now and? Of course there is. Of course there is. I mean, I don't know. Like, if there is a scene, I mean, next week, of Carl like losing his fucking shit and all of a sudden being this, you know, sober or not,

just unleashing on Lindsay and saying some very mean, aggressive things out of pocket, kind of like how Lindsay seems to be acting now, then all of a sudden I'll be like, okay, maybe there's something there. But so far we're four episodes in, and it's been Carl has been nothing but sober and calm and seems to be trying to turn a corner.

And then when his fiance, the person he is supposed to trust the most, his emotional support system, he is trying to trust the most, his emotional support system, he is trying to maneuver against this grenade after grenade after grenade of accusation. And when you, there is nothing, you watch reality TV, when you get accused of something on camera that you weren't expecting,

false or not, like, you're gonna, it's, you're like, what the fuck? How do I, how do I even respond to this? Just to, the acu, you know, we live in a world where accusations, people just, oh. It's true. It's true. Or it could be, yeah. It could be true. How could, you know, even, like, well,

why would Lindsay say that, you know? And coming from his fiance, being like, he's on something, it's like, well, I would trust you before I would trust him. But I'm like, at this point, if he pulls the plug on the engagement, I'm like, oh yeah, okay, makes sense to me. Just from already what's going on. So I don't understand how she could just say

it was out of nowhere, I just. No, I mean, listen, Lindsey, we'd love to have you back on to explain it. I don't know what she is going to say because yeah, it doesn't make sense. And I do think Lindsay is smarter than that, but I think even if you are intelligent, as Lindsay clearly is, I think you can get caught up in.

In the like, but we made up, or like. Yeah, and I think you can lack self-awareness at times, and I think she was so, as soon as Carl broke up with her on camera, all she thought is this is so fucked up. She discounted everything that led to that. And I think how it seems right now is that she was like, holy shit, this is fucked up. Didn't even think about what led to it

and decided to try to get ahead of it to craft a narrative that regardless of what led to Carl breaking up with me, the way he broke up with me is unforgivable. It's kind of like, you know how like Sandoval's like, you know, Sandoval, any chance he get is just like, well, Ariana did this, Ariana did that, she didn't do that, she didn't do that,

she demeaned me and we're all like, we don't give a fuck, you should have handled your shit in a different way and I think Lindsay is, that's her brain. She's like, it doesn't matter what I did to Carl. He broke up with me in the most unforgivable way and I'm gonna crucify him for it and people are gonna sympathize with me. And it's just apples and oranges.

Gaby said something really, really powerful in this episode. It's your responsibility as his partner to know how to communicate with them. And I feel like that's the one thing that screwed up their situation. It's very one-sided on her end. I also think that there's dynamics in their relationship

where I feel like when you're comfortable with somebody or longevity, you kind of fall into roles and you don't even really see it happening. And hearing that he's gone through multiple career changes and ideas and that she's investing money and all this stuff. I think that there's other irritations and other issues that aren't being addressed. And so she's taking it out on like,

well, I do everything for you. So you should just be grateful that I'm yours. And they're not having an honest conversation about what's going on in their relationship. That she's resentful of them. That's the thing. She might have valid things to be frustrated with Carl at, but the way she is going about doing it,

and just, she's going from zero to 10, and just going at him hard without the context, it just, it feels icky and manipulative, and with a lack of any empathy of what it might be like to be in Carl's position, having, I don't know what it's like to struggle the way Carl has struggled. And just because you struggle with substance abuse isn't a hall pass to be a shitty human

and be like, well, I had a problem. But at the same time, you are allowed some grace, especially when you are trying to turn a corner and make good decisions. And then if every mistake you make on your come up, you get, you know, someone goes back to like old you without ever giving you the benefit of the doubt. And that person is the person who's supposed to be

your biggest cheerleader. Yeah. I don't know, man. Heartbreaking. That's tough. We have Jimmy and Chelsea, they're ready to go. But when we come back after Jimmy and Chelsea, I do want to discuss Carl's appearance

on Watch What Happens Live, because I think he's very adamant about getting Lindsay's ring back. And I am curious, the audiences and the household's thoughts on when an engagement couple breaks up, is there a hard rule? Does the guy always get it back? Is it circumstantial?

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so everyone can enjoy. You're welcome. Chelsea, we are so grateful to have you. Let's just give it a round of applause for Chelsea, everybody. We're super excited to have you. Chelsea, first I just want to start off by saying how proud we are of you, of how you've handled this whole experience. Like it's much easier said than done. I think a lot of people

who go on these types of shows very quickly think very highly of themselves. And when they are criticized early on, they handle it very poorly. Obviously, you've been highly criticized. We've given you a hard time even on this show, but you have handled the criticism just perfectly. I mean, honestly, you've only become more and more relatable and likable, and we've all said things and done things that we regret and we've all said things that we deserve to maybe be teased by our friends. You know,

when you say those things on a national show, it's not going to be your friends teasing you, but like an entire nation of fans, which can be very hard to navigate, but you've navigated with such grace and such poise and it's like a job well done because it's very hard to navigate, but you've navigated with such grace and such poise and it's like a job well done because it's very hard to do and I think you've done a great job doing it. So props to you. Thank you so much. It's been a stinking journey. It's been a wild ride that I did not know this was going to be the outcome of it. So I thought I was going to be dragged for staying with him.

And it ended up being complete opposite. What do you mean dragged for staying with him? I mean, we had a lot of difficult moments that just were not shown. You know, you guys don't even see, you know, half of it or why I was reacting a certain way I was or why I was begging and, you know and being super whiny and begging for attention from him is because I wasn't getting that. So I thought this whole time I was preparing myself, okay, like people are gonna drag your ass

or just not listening to the sounds and seeing the signs that this guy did not like you. So I was preparing and you know, I was preparing myself for that and it just ended up being the complete opposite. So it's been crazy. Watching the season back, the show back, like how did you see yourself?

Like if you were watching it, obviously not, you know, not knowing your own journey, did you see things about your relationship with Jimmy that were eye-opening to you even? Oh yeah, for sure. I was living in the story, so I knew what was going on, and the way I was feeling was so validated,

I was so right, but seeing it, and I'm like, there were so many things that shocked me, like his sweet interviews. I'm like, what? Where's that coming from or the reveal my dilulu head thought that was so sweet I'm like, this is such a sweet moment. Like this was we had the most amazing reveal reveal I had no idea. So I looking back on it. I'm like, oh my gosh, I was dilulu I totally was dilulu and I totally was DeLulu. And I was seeing our relationship

with these rose-tinted glasses, and I was just seeing what I wanted to see and hoping that it would get better, but it just never did. So all this internet shenanigans between you and Jimmy recently, what's that all about? Are you guys teasing a relationship? Are you in a relationship?

Are you guys just kind of doing it for the clout, the attention? Like, what's going on online with you guys and where do you guys stand now? He has been very wonderful for me during this whole journey. He's just, you know, like I said, we did not expect it to be flipped onto me.

So he's just been, you know, he's the only one who knows what happened in our relationship and same with me. So for him to kind of come out and really support me and have my back has been very, very helpful. So we are just friends. There is absolutely nothing going on. I've seen what I needed to see. I've been told no multiple times with him so we're not doing that crap again. And you went on and said that you guys tried to date for four days after the proposal. Like what was that all about and why only four days?

That's where I screwed up is because you know, like I just said, I'm just so different than I was filming because if you told me no multiple times and I still give you a chance you know shame on me at that point so we after filming wrapped you know he expressed to me he tried to take me to a baseball game on our wedding day and he just said that the cameras were too much the pressure was too much and I was frustrated because I'm like, you knew this going into this situation.

So, you know, I was gung ho, I was ready, I was dedicated. I, you know, I was ready to get married. And really saying yes and agreeing to go on this, you know, date with him, we tried for four days and it just wasn't, it was the same and- And when you say try for four days,

what did trying for four days look like? He made me dinner one night, took me to my first baseball game. Did you guys hook up? But nothing changed. Yeah, yeah. That's not nothing. No, no, and it was nice and...

Oh, here he is. Is this your quiet room? That's the best I can do, man. I did want to make an appearance. I appreciate it. Listen, we appreciate you coming on, man. We're excited to have you. Especially the two of you together. Because I feel like there's a lot of he said, she said you coming on, man. We're excited to have you, especially the two of you together. Because I feel like there's a lot of he said, she said situations going on, and now we can finally get to the bottom of all of this. Deep on kit.

Yeah. Well, before you hopped on, Jimmy, Chelsea kind of mentioned that you guys dated for four days after the proposal. She's saying your praises. She was very gracious that you guys were, you've been a good friend to her. I did want to ask you something been a good friend to her.

I did wanna ask you something about both of you. Chelsea, recently there's been this viral video going online, you talking about a pocket call situation of Jimmy being out with the friends after he claimed to have been like, I guess going to bed or something. And that maybe played a role into you maybe you know played a role into some of your insecurities or questioning yourself. Can you articulate what you said on that uh that's

out there and then Jimmy would love to hear your uh rebuttal to that? Yeah so I went out and had some wine with Laura and AD and Jimmy was out with someone from the pods as well. One of the guys from the pods. And, you know, I was right down the street from our townhouse and. He texted me and asked if he could stay, if I cared, if he stayed at his own place. And, you know, I responded and said, no, that's fine. Space is good. Do your own thing.

I knew he was out with a guy from the pod and they were gonna, whatever. Then he FaceTimes me in bed and hangs up. And this, we're in the thick of living in Charlotte together right now. So it was pretty loud at that point. And so I thought giving him his face would have been,

you know, beneficial for both of us. And, you know, everything's heightened. So he hangs up with me, we're on the call for maybe a minute and then he hangs up and then- So that wasn't the pocket call? Like what was said on the FaceTime call? That he was going to bed, he was tired, he was in for the night, and two seconds later,

butt dials me and I hear everyone laughing in his apartment talking about where they're going to next. Jimmy, you wanna pop in here? Wait, I just have to add, I apologize to him for bringing it up, but like, this is my story too. And I'm getting my absolute ass handed to me. So like for me to speak my truth and like, tell my side of the story, like that's fair. So I did apologize. I don't want him to get dragged. I don't want him to get any amount of hate that I'm getting because it's a dark place over here right now. But I'll let you speak on that. Well, tell us, wasn't it this after our breakup?

No, it was not. It was not. We were living in the townhouse. Okay. Well, I threw a union. I spoke up about me being pretty mentally checked out. And at the point after you mentioned my friend and we were kind of going through the motions at that point. We talked about that, but this was after that huge fight. Ultimately, I was, I was, I felt like I wasn't getting enough space.

I respect you for forgiving that to me. I did happen. So I am sorry about that. It's like, it's kind of one of those things where we sort of ripped the bandaid off after that last bite because that was kind of the last draw for me and I stuck around. I love Chelsea so much. I mean it is blown up out of proportion all of our fights but the way I looked at it is they were they were things that were helping us overall. There was a lot that we were dealing with through that time and I was so proud. I just hated how we were getting compared to other couples because it took us the longest to actually have a fight.

A lot of people don't know that. And so when we started to have some conflict, I was encouraging it because I wanted to see how she handled conflict. And I'm getting a little off track here, but the, is that was after the big argument. And what was one piece of my story that wasn't included was I told, I told Chelsea after that argument that it was a note at the altar. I mean, I told her that I care so much. I'm willing to pick it day by day. I reiterated that every single day

for the remainder of the time we were in the experiment together. And that wasn't brought up. And yeah, that was not a great move by me to lie to you and then go out. But I felt cornered in a position where I was getting thrown in my face that I was a party animal.

My mom watches this. I knew what I was being subject to, going on a reality TV show, and you were claiming that I was going out all the time, and I wasn't. To be honest, I felt like I wanted to go out more of that time. It's because I didn't have my cell phone.

I didn't have, I mean, I wanted to bring you with me. I wanted to introduce you to my friends. We're on an expedited schedule to meet as many people as we can. I have a ton of friends and I want you to meet all of them. I mean, it's like, we're like 10 days away and we're having these really, really bad fights. And I think that that's just a key piece

that just wasn't mentioned. Well, thanks for cleaning it up. So Jimmy, and thank you for saying all that. I appreciate you guys having this conversation. But I guess as Chelsea has pointed out, she has been through it. The internet has been vicious. We even had fun at her expense on this show,

with the voices and the clinginess. And she, the edit, and we know the show, we know that this show can be edited, but the edit was, is that Chelsea was unnecessarily insecure unnecessarily clingy created her own kind of dilulu universe where almost making up shit that you were doing and sounding crazy and are you here to say

that the majority of Chelsea's insecurities or Frustrations towards you were in fact valid? I just want to point out that that argument, that piece where I was on my FaceTime and then she heard people cat-going in the background, that was after we had a really bad fight. I do want to point that out. Fair enough.

Chelsea doesn't deserve. I'm curious, what's your point to that though? A lot of the things that I said throughout the experiment, there was a thousand ways I could have worded it better. Okay. But when I said she was clingy, that was a very, no woman really wants to be told that, I'm aware of that, but at the time, that's how I felt.

And so it was kind of like, I was telling Chelsea exactly how I felt throughout the experiment. Here's my point, Jimmy. Jimmy, I hear you, and I really appreciate you coming on and talking about this. And I'm not here to re-litigate the edit or anything like that. We know that these shows can be edited,

and we know that sometimes your story isn't exactly how you remembered it or vice versa. But now that we're here and we have both you together and the show's done and it's wrapped and we've seen the reunion, can you say on this very large show that many, many thousands, hundreds of thousands of people are going to listen to that Chelsea was justified in her feelings towards you because of some of your actions that we didn't get to see? And are you willing to kind of say that and put it out there regardless? And again, we know that like you didn't have wrong intentions, we all know that this is

a crazy atmosphere that like, hey, I honestly don't even know how you guys are able to navigate this world. And I understand you would have done things differently and would love to hear that, but I just wanna hear, is it yes or no? Was Chelsea's actions or what we, the insecure Chelsea that we got to see, that wasn't out

of nowhere based off of some of your actions, whether you meant to or not. And that, you know, she is in fact not the Lulu or crazy and that your actions led to some of this behavior that we didn't get to see. My point is that was one action. And so that was later on in the experiment. So I would ask what else was my actions not matching my words. Because I was forward with you the entire time. And I do want to preface,

I don't think Chelsea deserves any of this heat. And I didn't view Chelsea, even in my relationship with her, insecure. I didn't do that. All I knew relationship with her, insecure. I didn't view that. All I knew is when we laid our head down at night, no matter what type of argument we had, or we had a good day, there was so many good moments that weren't shown.

When I looked her in the eyes, I could tell that she was there for me, and she meant me, and loved me unconditionally. And that's all I could ever want. And so I was fighting so hard because I could see how much she loved me. But like, I personally felt I was communicating every step of the way with how I felt, whether she liked it or not. And that was a lie. And that was my mistake. But that was after the fact, this all

got blown out of proportion. So like basically every fight that we had, all this was after is my point. So like- After what, the breakup? Or you guys? No, the buildup of everything we just talked about, like that FaceTime call never happened. So I would just ask what other specific moments did my actions not match my words? Because everything we saw on camera was after this.

But, and I apologize, we've had this conversation, but. Yeah, I mean, listen, we all, again, we know that even on the show, like timelines don't always match up. And, you know, again, things can be shown out of order. It's just more as your friend, Chelsea, it's just like, are you willing to say, listen, I regret some of my decisions.

I would have done things differently. You know, we all make mistakes, but Chelsea is justified in some of her feelings towards me based off of my actions, rather than letting the audience decide for themselves whether she was losing her mind because of her own insecurities. You get what I'm saying? Yeah.

So yes or no? I mean. This is weird. This is what you mean? Are you talking to me? Your actions. Oh yeah. Okay. What other actions though? Your words were not ever mentioned. My point is, is what everybody saw on camera happened before the only action you brought up. I have a question. Okay, for example, you said you have a lot of friends that you wanted to introduce Chelsea to. Why did you choose two female friends, one of which you've had relations with? And like, did you tell her about that

before she met the friends or did you tell her about that after? I told Chelsea as soon as I got my phone back because she saw her texting me, was super serious. I told her the moment we got our phones back. So it was before she met her? Yeah. Okay.

And then like, but do you think that, because I mean, the argument that you guys got into with everything, it seemed to me now justified a little bit because out of any of the, okay, I guess my main question is, why did you choose those two friends of all the friends to bring on the show to introduce her to? So the closest person to me had, I think, seven people brought on the show outside of like weddings.

I had 11 people. I had six friends and four of those friends made two different appearances. Okay. And they highlighted, not just the guy friends. Yeah, yeah, okay. They highlighted the women.

That makes sense. Because they highlighted the women. And truthfully, both of those women, like, yeah, like they knew that, I mean, that person knew that, They highlighted the women and. Truthfully, both of those women like. Yeah, like they knew that. I mean, that person knew that how risky it was for them, right? But that person didn't want me to tell

Chelsea right off the bat. And I wanted Chelsea to know because she needed to know every inch of me if we're going to do this and. Yeah, maybe maybe got maybe got set up a little bit to bring the women on camera, but like, it's an expedited process. Like what am I supposed to do? Just throw every woman out of my life,

just because like I've found a fiance in two weeks. No, I'm gonna introduce her to all the people that are occurring in my life, and the people that are good at battle for me, and the people that love me and care about me. I wasn't having a physical relationship with them at that time. And I just goes into her the moment I got my phone back, and the moment she, she asked about me. I wasn't having a physical relationship with them at that time, and I just went to her the moment

I got my phone back, and the moment she asked about it. I mean. That makes a lot of sense. So just to recap, it wasn't just those two friends. They were one of many friends, but as you know, like you didn't control how things were aired, and they highlighted those two friends. Yeah, and it makes total sense why they highlighted

those two friends. Sure, okay. Considering it's the emphasis of our breakup, but it wasn't fun. I mean, they both came on with pure intentions to help and support me. I mean, I was going to a reality TV show and I was thinking of like getting outfits together

and all this stuff. I was leaning on them a lot. They did me dirty with the first day outfit. We can all agree to that, but they helped me religiously. At any moment, I had a question about something or if I wanted to like learn about a show. I don't watch reality TV. I didn't watch the show prior to going.

I asked them their opinions. My guy friends weren't gonna talk to me hours on end about me going to Lois Blind and how this is a good idea. All my friends, my family did not support it. They supported it and I wanted them to help me and meet her and I want, and they wanted to be friends with her. Like they were excited to do that. And even to this day, they still both do. They both take the role to Chelsea and they know that like, you know,

our story is so, so wild because there's, um, you know, there's a lot of things that Chelsea and I went through and people were gonna have their own opinions, but I didn't view Chelsea as an insecure person in our relationship. I still don't view her as an insecure person. And so it's one of those things where, you know, it's too juicy to not add in there,

but I had a bunch of guys on there. Like I had the most guys of any of the guys. And I have a bunch of friends and it was appropriate for me to bring the girls. I don't care what anybody says, it's appropriate for me to bring those girls. I've dated two women, seriously. I've dated a girl for four years, high school sweetheart. I dated a girl for four and a half years through college.

Both of them girls knows that I had a bunch of girlfriends and I took a step back the moment that I got in a committed relationship because of the nature of this being a very fast experiment. I thought it made so much sense for her to meet them prior and then I'm willing to take a step back but I'm not willing to take a step back when it's being thrown in my face and we're pointing fingers and there's no physical relationship so so there's a lot to it. So question, yeah, and I hear you,

I understand that this isn't exactly real life, but do you see, but people watch it as real life and try to compare it to their real life, so my question to you is, had you and Chelsea worked out? Right? Do you think, just in general, going forward, you and Chelsea aren't gonna end up together, someday you'll find the love of your life,

you'll get into a committed relationship. Do you expect to maintain those friendships with those women? Because listen, I get it, as a single guy, when I was single, I had platonic, I had plenty of platonic friendships with women. But then once I entered into a committed relationship with someone, it just changed the dynamic.

Do you acknowledge that that's gonna eventually change? I do. Both of them acknowledge it too. It wasn't one-sided. I've had conversations with them about the moment that they have someone in their life that they feel special. It will probably be weird for that person, it'll be uncomfortable, so we'll take a step back,

and it's like, there's not even gonna be a question on either side. The point of me bringing up past relationship is I've done that in the past, and I will continue to do that for my person, but just the nature of it being so freaking fast, I'm like, let's unload the house and introduce her to everybody.

Totally hear that it's fast, but you can appreciate from Chelsea's standpoint that you're basically like, hey, I know in the real world I would do this for you, but I'm not gonna do this for you. But also, you have to decide whether to get married to me, and that will be real regardless of the show or not. So you were basically saying, you're not worth it for me to do this,

but I would do it for someone else outside of the show. No way, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying because it's so expedited, I'm gonna unload the house and introduce her to every single person that has any impression of my life. No, no, I get not what I'm saying. I'm saying because it's so expedited, I'm gonna unload the house and introduce her to every single person that has any impression of my life. No, no, no, I get where you're coming from. I'm saying you understand where Chelsea's coming from.

Because- I do understand where she's coming from. I think our story is so unique in the fact that like, I don't think there's a wrong person in it. Like she broke a level of trust for me and I totally understand where she's coming from. Like she was weak and she was vulnerable during that night. That's not really shown.

And so I would encourage people to give her grace. Chelsea. Oh, okay. Maybe I went too many espresso, what was it? 30 martinis, Chelsea. I'm sorry. Chelsea, what do you got to say? Jimmy's been talking a lot.

What do you got to say? Jimmy's been talking a lot. What do you got to say, Chelsea? You know, I think it's not, it's just going to the co-ed relationship. It's not the girls being the friends. It's not any of that that bothers me. What bothers me is that there was zero boundaries and there was zero respect. So when it came to them and her and I like, I've apologized to her. I've reached out to her. I feel so sad that I brought her sex life into the world. So it's not even the fact that they have, you know, a

relationship. It's just, I wasn't getting the respect that I was giving him. So it's just interesting. And I was trying to see past it to the point where, he was asking them for like relationship advice and stuff like that where I love that he has people in his life that love him because he is so wonderful. But where do we draw the line? Because just like you said, we're trying to get married.

Like, yeah, if you're not willing to take a step back, do I say yes to you? Do I say no to you? Is this gonna be, are you gonna be contact? Are we gonna be in couples therapy with her? Like what's going on? Because. Yeah, I mean, how do you get married to someone who's like,

listen, I will not stop hanging out with my girlfriend who I hooked up with. Like. I will add, and he brought it up, like I have a friendship with my ex-boyfriend, so there's no, like that was no, I wasn't trying to be a hypocrite, but I respect Jimmy and I wasn't,

I FaceTimed him when I got engaged because I was so excited for him to meet Jimmy. And we have this very, we have a good friendship. He's married, has a baby, and I was very respectful of Jimmy, and I'm not texting him, I'm not calling him. He was in a different state. It was just, you know, a respect thing of,

hey, here's this new journey of my life, and I want you to meet him. Yeah. I knew you were gonna say that. I knew you were gonna bring that up. Jimmy, I'll say the day we had our really bad fight, we had probably the best day we ever had, and that day wasn't shown.

And then I started to see where the conversation was going and I'm a little sassy. I don't know. I just like, I 100% will take a step back, but in that moment I was not willing to because I felt like my back was against the wall and I knew where that conversation was going. And maybe, maybe like if, I don't know,

I hate bringing alcohol into it, but it's like that wasn't Chelsea. Chelsea didn't talk to me like that. And I just felt like I got aired out. So. Gotcha. All right, I got two questions for you and the household might have some more for you. But one, are you shooting your shot with AD?

Is that a real thing? Cause I'm seeing all over the internet that you would like a chance at dating AD. Is that, are you, where do we stand there? Do you wanna publicly stay, do you wanna shoot your shot here? Or do you wanna like retract that statement? Not in front of Chelsea.

I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. Oh, okay. I thought you guys were friends. Yeah, like the fuck. Yeah, we, AD and I have been going back and forth laughing about all of it. Her and I were were pretty close through the experiment. I play as one of my good friends this day and I just admire the couple.

I'm just I gassed them up and it may have came off that way. I think she's she's an amazing person. She's one of the coolest people we did the experiment with. And I guess those comments were more of like, never say never type thing. And then E-news is like. Would you go on a date with her if she said yes? I think there's a lot of fish in the sea.

And out of respect to Chelsea, I think I should probably stay away from women that we did this show with that I dated already. All right. Okay. Good job. He's learning on the job. We love it.

Can you clear up the whole Christian McCaffrey of it all? Did you compare yourself? Like where did that comparison come from? Was this another, you know, Chelsea being set up, you know, where they're showing one side of the story and not the other. Can you shed some light on this, please? Yeah, I did take Christian McCaffrey.

I did give a modest version of it. I was like, I don't know if it's that Walmart wish or I said less Jack version, but I did say that. But Chelsea also put clarity on like, she doesn't look like Megan Fox. It's my reaction. Yeah, we- It's my reaction that made it all blow up.

And like, you know, I was having fun. I was, you know, six beers deep in there. I was doing my thing. And she said that. I like, they're like, it's my fault. And so I've talked, we've talked about this. It's like, it's, it's, it's funny. Not funny for her.

Um, but I think, I think our like saving grace to all this is being able to laugh at ourselves, um, and so, you know, it is what it is at this point, but I did say that. So it could have went either way. Okay. All right. And what are you in Vegas for? Um, I'm attending a pool party in Vegas. Okay.

Is there, is there, uh, are you being paid for that pool party? Yes. Well, good for you. Yeah. It's definitely not good for the brand, but like it might be good for the pocketbook. Yeah. Yeah. You think going to a pool party

isn't good for his brand? Jimmy, you're acting like the world's not gonna see it. There's gonna be people taking pictures of you there, buddy. Like, you know, like, you don't gotta be cagey with us. You might as well just explain yourself here before people start seeing out of context photos of you at a pool party. Woo, what month are we in? March. March. It's a bit early for a pool party. Never in Vegas.

It's just funny because I've been dying to have a chance to talk to you Nick and big fan and my one thing that I was wanting to cover was me not being a party guy and then I'm like taking the call with this opportunity here. So that's on me, but. It's all right, man. Like, listen, you're allowed to make some coin, you know. It's just, it is what it is.

Two things can be true at the same time, but we're big fans of you too, Jimmy. Thanks, man. Jimmy, we really appreciate it, man. Have fun in Vegas. Yeah. Thanks for being a good sport, man. It's all good.

All right, buddy. Thank you. All right. What do you have to say about all that? He is such a goof. I swear. You know, it's just so interesting. He's just going to die on this hill that he went out once.

And this was a world I was trying to navigate during the whole experiment. And I remember one of my really best friends knows Jimmy from college. And she was like, I we were shocked that Jimmy was the person you picked because he goes out often and I'm like well everything's aligning and yeah it's just it's crazy it was just a wild wild west that was trying to navigate with him. Chelsea why do you want to maintain a friendship still with Jimmy? You know we didn't talk for six months after filming. So I ran into him out and he asked me to go to coffee and we just really sat and talked about our whole journey and everything that, you know, I just thought we both thought he was just going to have this horrible, horrible, horrible perception of him from the world

because of how he was to me off camera. Wait, so are you kind of pissed about, like I feel like we were talking about this earlier, like Jimmy kind of got like a glowing edit, like compared to Trevor or- Clay. Yeah. Do you think that's a fair, could it have gone another way?

Yeah, because Jimmy definitely looked like the guy who picked someone who had a ton of insecurities and found a problem with everything he did, and he desperately wanted to make this work, but you were sabotaging the relationship at every turn, and you forced him to basically end the relationship. That's basically Jimmy's edit. Yeah.

Mm-hmm, yeah. We's also- We're shocked. All of us are shocked. What's also weird too is Jimmy made a comment at the reunion about Jeremy saying, "'At least I didn't get the villain edit.'" So is that just, is that imply that there's a lot more that went on behind closed doors that everybody else is privy to,

but you just got the edit that looks like you're making up things in your head, but really there was stuff going on. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, all the girls and I are super close and we were very, very, very close during the whole filming process and they knew everything going on. Like they knew I felt a certain type of way. They knew his actions weren't matching his words. And he kept telling me, you know, I love you, I love you, I love you. And I care for you, I want to fight for you. But it was like he was more concerned with his friendships or he would get so jealous when the guys from the pods were all together, but there weren't

any fiancees out just guys from the pods. And I'm like, Okay, get it. You're trying to build these friendships and you care about your friends. I do as well. But you're more concerned. This was not a show to make bros. Right? This is a show to find a wife and you care about your friends, I do as well, but you're more concerned, this was not a show to make bros. This is a show to find a wife. And I was just, I repeat this so many times, I was just there for the whole shebang, and I was there for a husband, and I'm trying to make this relationship work.

I'm going through the trenches trying to make it work with you, and you're more concerned about going out or going you know even if it wasn't going out to like drink like you're more concerned about spending time with your friends rather than me and so I should have just known right then and there. Well I you know it's like I hear Jimmy's I get his side to this peak let's take Jimmy's word and that when this night of pocket calling happened, that he was mentally checked out, that he was just like, hold. And listen, this is a crazy fucking thing

that you guys all signed up for. I don't even know how I would handle it. I don't think love is blind, so I couldn't do this show, you know? I just, I couldn't do it. It's intense. It's intense, so like props to all of you, right? But taking him at his word,

like I can understand how he's just like, I don't love this person, she's not my person, no offense against you, but like, and I don't know how to navigate, we're still filming, I'm stuck in it. I get all that. But like it seems to me that Jimmy is trying to, as much as he can, and it's very hard to do,

and we're seeing him try, I think, and fail at it, is to, it's like, you can tell there's a lot of mutual respect between the two of you. For all of this messiness that, it seems like you two want to have each other's backs, but at the same time, it's like you are also struggling with the weight of the internet coming down on you, like, as hard as anyone's ever been coming down on,

and you're trying to justify how you're coming across and pointing out certain things that just factually happened. And Jimmy is trying to acknowledge some things because it's what happened, but he doesn't wanna let go of his edit that has been so favorable to him, and he's trying to thread the needle.

And if Jimmy, let's say, were to called me up prior to this show airing and being like, here's what really happened. Let's say I sat down with two of you. I would have been like, Jimmy, just come out publicly hard in Chelsea's defense, acknowledge all your wrongdoing. I always say how like, I am always very critical of people on reality TV because they're always very quick to blame the edit or their peers or producers when things don't go their way and very quick to take all the credit when things do go their way. And had Jimmy come out and done the opposite, had he come out and be like, hey guys, this is a very difficult situation for all of us.

I honestly tried my best to find love, but you're not seeing some of the things that I did to drive Chelsea to this type of behavior. I'll explain it when I can, but Chelsea is justifying her actions. I think people would have loved him for it. Instead, he is trying to thread the needle. And listen, I don't think it's fine he's in Vegas making some money, but that's him threading the needle by wanting people not to think he's a partier, but still saying yes to these opportunities. And it's just like, hey, you know, like you're gonna have to deal

with how people interpret your actions. And it's what do you think to everything I'm saying? Am I on the mark or do you think I'm way off here? You are on the money because I had to explain to him, you know, I, like I said, I don't want him to get this type of hate. By any means. This, it's a dark, dark, dark place over here. And I swear, like the way I'm navigating this whole situation, I just don't think he could handle it. And like, I'm not saying anything bad about him.

I just think if it were roles reverse, it would be a completely different outlook. I think he would really, really struggle with it. So when I had a podcast aired talking about situations, one situation that went on in our relationship that really led me to feel the way I feel, he wasn't very happy. And so I had to navigate that situation, because now we do have this awesome friendship and I don't want to ruin that. But also I have a story to tell as well.

Yeah. I mean like half the internet thinks that you're just losing your shit for no fucking reason. I know. And I tell, I told him, I said, you know, I respect you. This was a year ago, but I also, I have so much to say and that's why I had the reunion. I'm like, oh man, like I had so much to say and I just didn't get that opportunity to do so. So it's just crazy. And I you know, I asked for forgiveness. After I

speak. It feels like he's getting he gets so caught up in like the data or maybe like the gamesmanship of it. And we watched it even today. He's saying, I had the most guy friends out of every guy. And he didn't like it when he was like, why would you say they have a stronger connection than we do? We need to be the best. Like, it's like, he feels like he can rely

on these statements of like, oh no, we're killing it. We're perfect and get away with it. I think Jimmy is well-intentioned. I just think he is. He is. He is. He's wonderful. He's absolutely amazing. I will speak nothing but highly of him. I think our situation is. He is. He is. He's wonderful. He's absolutely amazing.

I will speak nothing but highly of him. I think our situation was horrendous, but I don't think I went in there, like I said, I was there guns blazing. I put everything of my being into this experiment. I just don't think he was ready for obviously a marriage. Do you think he ever was? I don't know.

Because didn't I see something on the internet of him being like, now I realize I'm not only not ready to get married, but I'm not ready to have a girlfriend, like date at all. Yeah, so when we dated for our long, treacherous four days, it was so brutal. He broke up with me, I remember I was at the pool and he called me again, I gave him, this was like the fourth time he told me he didn't like me like, come

on, girl. So he calls me and he was like, you know, this experiment made me realize I don't want a relationship at all. Chelsea, do you think do you think you would have said yes had you guys made it to the altar? So at that moment at that day when he, you know, called it off, I was yes. And every day was different, which is so interesting because I really went up to the last possible second I gave myself. I said, you know what? I'm going to take every moment I have to use this experiment efficiently.

So that day at Carowinds when he called it off, I was a yes. The day before I was a little iffy, we're still trying to figure out our situations. This is a weird, weird experiment. That's so normal. A lot of people don't know what they're going to say as they're walking up the aisle. Like it's very, time is of the essence. And that's why before he told me twice he was going to say no at the author. And I begged him and I swear by this, I will never beg another man to ever give me attention or quote unquote love me. I will never beg someone else.

The fact that I had to beg him to see the experiment through is so embarrassing. So I will never ever ever ever do that again. And yeah, I just I think right before he called it off, we were walking into Carowinds picking our wedding songs for the reception. So it wasn't even just like, you know, walking down the aisle, like, okay, we're going to the altar, you know, whatever, it was our reception songs and we were both gun ho on what we were gonna be choosing so um i think it was just a mental mental game for me at that point but the week before carowinds we had the most amazing week i met his friends we we went i went out with him for the first time, he let me go. And we had the best time together.

And I just was in a really good spot. He met my family. It was just such a huge mental, you know, mental fuck. I don't know if I can cuss on here. You can. You're just, I wanna say you're being really like lighthearted about it all and sort of making fun of yourself and being hard on yourself.

But I think we're getting all the context for everything. You're coming out of a scenario where you don't know how the guy really feels about you and if he's attracted to you and you're not feeling the validation you need. So I think to be that hard on yourself retroactively is like, I'm glad you learned from it, but I feel for you when you're saying that stuff.

I can't say enough, just like, how much you've crushed the fallout of this show. And I say this as someone who's got a lot of fucking heat in the past, and it's gonna pay dividends just how well you've played the criticism that you've received and how much willing you've been able to just have fun with it and how gracious you've played the criticism that you've received and how much willing you've been able to just have fun with it and how gracious you've been

to some of your peers, I think it will definitely serve you well going forward. And I think your friend Jimmy could take a few notes. Because I do think he's well intentioned and I do think he, like everyone else, is just trying to navigate this very crazy world. But I think instead of trying to thread the needle, because like, yeah, even said, it's like,

here he was like, it was almost lost on us because he did say, Chelsea's great, Chelsea was right, but it's like, we had to almost pry that out of him. And it- That's how I felt. And it followed him trying to justify it being like well the timing was off rather just than him coming on and saying listen at the end of the day she had valid reasons to be upset with me and that wasn't

shown we don't want to hear excuses we don't want to hear explanations we just want to hear accountability and Chelsea has been so vilified and so beaten up by the internet that a little bit of accountability from someone who's gotten a lot of praise and looked like the hero to Chelsea's villain, he's trying to thread the needle and I think it's backflying.

You love to thread the needle, Express. Well, you know, you love a good expression. Do you have another expression for this? Keep going. He was so worried about his edit. He was so, so worried. And I was just, I was preparing him for how to navigate that. And so for me, which I don't know, I'm new here.

I don't know what to do with my hands. Like I did not expect, I even told my mom, my mom was so worried. My mom was struggling with this whole situation. I said, mom, there's nothing that I did that will make me be bad in this situation. And yeah, I was emotional. I was, you know, crying for him to show me love and give me what I was,

you know, I wanted to see and hear. He's just telling me everything I want to hear. But it wasn't, it wasn't authentic, you know, and that's why people are like, why'd you keep asking him? Why'd you keep asking him? I'm like, it wasn't real. And I felt it in my gut. And I felt it in my intuition. All my stress was thinking intuition, I swear. So I just told my mom, I'm like, mom, I'm Gucci. I skated this whole year. I was like, I'm so good. I was my authentic self. I might've cried a lot, but I was me.

I didn't give a crap about the cameras. And he did and that's why he got he got lucky. Okay well Chelsea thank you again for taking the time we really appreciate it we wish you the best of luck and thanks for being such a good sport. Thank you congrats on your baby I'm just obsessed with you. Thank you so much we appreciate you coming on you've been great thanks so much. Bye guys. Bye guys. Bye. Bye.

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I'm a new fan. You weren't before? No, I liked it. I mean, going off of from what I saw, I was like, well, I don't think we would be friends, but I'm like seeing her talk and kind of getting to see the side that other women that have come on the show

have talked about where they're like, Chelsea's actually very strong and can speak for herself. Like it's like nice to see that side of her versus her in a relationship with Jimmy. They both love you, Nick. Yeah, they do, they're both fans. Well, I wish I'm both the best. I do.

I also thought it was interesting hearing that they only filmed from six to 10 p.m. where I'm just like, there's so much. Oh wait, is that what they were saying? Yeah, they said that that's why she- He was always in his house, he needed to work and have space. Damn, so she's saying he didn't talk to her

except for four hours at night, four hours in the day. But you know how, like in real life relationships, right? You're texting all day and stuff. No, but here's what I'm saying. It's just like, we'll get a lot of people who call in and then our situationship is like the it relationship these days, right?

And I always tell people, like, if you actually wanna end a relationship, do the selfless thing and just end it. Even at the risk of them thinking you're the bad guy. Let them hate you, let them be angry at you, but let them go. You don't have to be a jerk, you know, don't say anything mean, but just be honest with how you feel.

And I think Jimmy, again, trying to navigate the edit, being hyper aware of the edit, was one way on camera, and then off camera would kind of massage Chelsea a little bit. I think he was off camera, it sounds like that's the impression I got, being like reaffirming his feelings and it's like almost every time on camera, Chelsea looks like this girl who even for herself it's like how did you not see it? But it sounds like off camera, Jimmy was like, you know, but we should work on it and we should try

and I love you and I have feelings for you. And like, it's like, oh, well, which one is it? And we've all seen those relationships where like one day it's just like, this is how I feel, this is how I feel. And then right before that person's like, you know what, I think we're finally done. It's like you tell your friends,

but like, you know what, we're done, we're done. But then that person comes back and says, well, maybe we should try. It's like, well, wait, we should try. And like Chelsea was the hopeful person in this side of things. So she's always going to be like, anytime Jimmy gave her a glimmer of hope. Yep. I mean, not, she said not even a glimmer of hope. She said he said twice, she didn't, he didn't want to go to the altar and she still begged him. So yeah.

But I just think, again, I think Jimmy was well intentioned But I think he was too worried about being the good guy that some of these things are coming to light after the fact that Almost makes it come across as a little manipulative Even though he might not have attended that and I think it was him trying to look good all While dealing with this relationship and I And I think to Chelsea's point, she wasn't trying to look good or bad, she was authentically trying to see if this could work. You know what, I'm just tired of reality TV and just like missing everything that happens off camera.

Like, I mean. You want the Truman Show? It's genuinely like. The summer house car. Genuinely, well I was gonna go back to summer house because I'm like they got cameras all over the house but not in the car and it's like everything's happening in the car.

Like, I'm just like, I need what's happening off camera. I need the little cameras around, stashed around Love Island style 24 seven. And then y'all can figure out what you're gonna keep it and keep out. But I'm like the he said, she said, it's so hard to follow. Cause you're like, well, I'm seeing with what I,

you're pretty much telling me, I can't believe what I see with my own eyes, but that's what you're forming a judgment or a decision about a person's character. It's just what we're seeing on camera. Yeah, I kind of like it though, because it's kind of like real life. We always hear people's, you know, when we hear our friends talking about their relationships with their partners, we're not privy to it. We don't get to see it.

It's not like, they're not like saying, here, here, watch our fight from last night. And then we hear their side of the story and then we kind of analyze it, take sides, hear the other person's side of the story. And we get to do that, you know, by watching parts of these fights on these shows. And that's where you and I differ a little bit because like I get a little piece of information. I'm becoming the CIA.

Like I want to get to the bottom of it. I need to figure out who I need to talk to to get more information. So I'm like, I'm not just like, oh, hey, that's it. I'm like figure out who I need to talk to to get more information. So I'm like, I'm not just like, oh, hey, that's it. I'm like, okay, so then what did he say after you said this? So I'm like a little bit more nosier. I need the after show details. I have a question for the FBI agent then.

Do you think Carl should have the ring? Do I think, yeah. Yeah, after what I've seen in the first four episodes, yeah, I was like- All right, question though. Forgetting about whose side we're taking. Right. Who cares about gender?

Two people get engaged. Right. One person buys a very, assumingly expensive ring, or maybe that's part of the equation. Is there a certain monetary value where someone makes it a real investment that do you think the person receiving said ring should always give it back?

Or do you think there's situations in where that person gets to keep the, you know, 5,000, 10,000, I don't know. Like, people, what do they say? It should be three months of your salary or whatever it is. Do you think this is a scenario when the person receiving said ring gets to keep ring regardless of how?

I guarantee you would never expect Natalie to give you back a ring if you broke up. Untrue. You would want her to give it back. Depends on the situation. Really? I say always. I would always give it back. If the relationship is over,

I don't need to keep a memento, and if somebody spent a lot of money in hopes of forever, and we got to the point to where we were like, it's not, I don't understand the want to keep a ring that was like, cool, this is my first failed engagement. What if you get married? No, I wouldn't wanna keep it, but I think you're entitled to keep it.

I think if you get married, then you should be able to. It's been a marriage that's hit everything. Because then someone gave it to you. It's kind of like- They didn't give it to you as like, hey- Happy birthday. Happy birthday, or I was thinking of you, it was to get married, it was an exchange.

No, I don't think it is like that. Yeah, I think it's like, I bought thinking of you, it was to get married. It was an exchange. It's not like a, no, I don't think it is like that. Yeah, it's. I think it's like, I bought this for you that you are wearing presumably for the rest of your life. But I bought this for you with the expectation that we would spend the rest of our lives together and this is somehow a symbol of our love and the investment I'm willing to make for the relationship.

And for that person to be entitled to, and again, we're not talking. Then don't buy it. Well, what if the ring is like a family heirloom? That's different. That's like a common thing too. What if it's like life-changing money? Then you're an idiot to spend that on a ring.

What if you want to do that for the person you love? Then you don't really want to do it for them if you expect it back eventually. Well, you only expect it back if that relationship or that person ceases to be what you thought it would be. But like that line of morality did they cheat on you or did they just like end up like looking different than you expected as they aged? I mean who knows what it could be? What if that person breaks up with you? What if they're just like I don't love you

anymore? But we're not talking marriage we're talking getting up to the point of engagement to the point of marriage. Oh I was talking at any point. There's no there's no wedding. No, you're talking like however long it was nine months like Carl and engagement Yeah, got up to the yeah, I mean ten years from now No, I was thinking long term. Yeah, but between getting engaged To the actual wedding. Mm-hmm. Assuming there's no wedding to be had a la Carl and Lindsey Is there a, yeah, who should, I feel like the guy should be entitled to have it back. Okay, I agree with that.

If the guy proposed. Sure, whoever gave the ring. Did Lindsay, I missed the other side of that. Did he ask for the ring back and Lindsay was like, what the fuck? Lindsay said that he demanded it back and then that she returned it because of New York law, so she was legally obligated. But she didn't want to. She said, well, said that he demanded it back and then that she returned it because of New York law. So she was legally obligated.

But she didn't want to. She said, well, she said he demanded it. So that's implying that she didn't want to. It just seems, yeah. What else are you gonna do with it though? Like other than just like sell it. Sell it on your own. Right, but then it's like, so you're just like, you-

You're profiting off of it. And we're talking real potential money here with some of these rings. I said $200,000. Wait, Carl said that? No, I'm just saying if you're of these rings. I said $200,000. Wait, Carl said that? No, I'm just saying if you're spending a hundred thousand, $200,000 on it, Carl spent on it.

How much did we get if it was $5,000? Even if it's six, yeah, it doesn't matter. I'm like, to me, I'm like, if you're buying something and giving it, it's a whole ritual. You're getting down on one knee, expecting that we're exchanging our love to each other forever, and I will wear this symbol,

that I'm like, if we don't make it to the aisle, hey, I don't want the reminder of it, it's not something you can just wear, so unless you're just gonna buy it or sell it and get the money for it, what's the point in keeping it? Where I'm like, let him have his money back. Being a petty B. Yeah, right, like when you break up with someone

and you've moved in together, you take your couch back, I assume, right? Or we talk about it. Right. You know, but I'm like, if you want it back and you spent the money, your hard earned money, and we're not gonna end up being together forever, then yeah, have it back.

Whoever gives it has, should get it back. Yeah, because the only reason she'd keep it is for the money. Like she's not keeping it for sentimental value of like, oh, this was from my failed engagement. How toxic, if so. It's just like, please come to my jewelry box. This is my first engagement from Joe.

Now, if the person who gives the ring, let's say cheats or breaks up with you, I still think the person who gives it should give it back. Like that's technically the right thing to do. But let's say in the using the Carl Lindsay example, Carl was like, I don't love you anymore, I'm done. I don't wanna, well, and he did break up with her. But let's say it was not reasons that didn't include

maybe using his addiction against him. Like I don't know where Carl was superficially, was like, I met another woman. Then I could see if Lindsay wanted to keep it, I wouldn't have a problem with it, so to speak. I guess who's the, like, who broke the promise? That's interesting that New York law says that, right? Cause I don't think California law says that.

Like that must. Under what? Yeah, and under why? I mean, cause legally it almost sounds like, what do they say? Ownership is nine tenths of the law. And in this scenario, We need some research, please.

Lindsay is the owner of, Lindsay has possession of the ring, but New York State law is basically saying possession isn't nine-tenths of the law. Is that what it says? Well, just in general, I've, the few like law classes I've ever taken, all you hear is possession is nine-tenths of the law. Like if you are in ownership of whatever thing that is being discussed, debated, or fought over who's in possession of said thing, that goes a long, long way.

So she said, I think in New York, there's a law with engagement rings that says it's a contingency gift, contingent upon there being a wedding and a marriage. And if there's no wedding or marriage, then the gift belongs to the giver, so legally the ring belongs to him. Gotcha, okay.

Okay, so if they were married, she could keep it. Yeah. I mean, I agree with that. Yeah, that seems reasonable. Yeah. I mean, I agree with that. Yeah, that seems reasonable. Yeah. That's what I said in the beginning. Yeah, we got to it. We got to it.

We finally got, we finally landed on it. Sheena, you have thoughts? Oh, you're gonna make me start with that? You don't have to start with that. You came in very hot with an opinion. I just, she is grinding my gears this season. Maybe I'm watching too many TikTok edits of her saying, it never gets to be about me

and they show every time that it was about her, but talk about lacking self-awareness. She just does not get how she's coming across, in my opinion. No, she's not. You know what's interesting is like this whole season really is about, you know, a friend group breakup. That's really what it's about, right?

And you have Ariana, to me, simply being a person who in her adult life, in her 30s, is just like setting new boundaries. I don't really care what you do per se, but I'm just like, I'm hanging around certain types of people. But if your choices somehow interact with that, I have to make certain choices of my own, you know, a la like Sheena trying to navigate this relationship with Tom and Ariana. And to me, what's interesting is like,

you have Katie, clearly you know where Katie stands. She is with Ariana. She has been affected and victimized by Sandoval herself. She has strong opinions of Sandoval. She also is just like, I don't really care about this friend group anymore. And that's what's interesting is that you have, this is to me is about the friend group. Even Lala and Sheena, it's about like they don't want to let go of the group.

And Ariana doesn't care about the group anymore. Katie doesn't seem to care about the group anymore. And Sheena does. And I think what's interesting is I think Sheena is more like Tom. Sheena and Tom seem to go together even as friends. I think, look at their personalities. I think like, for example, Tom, he is Vanderpump. He lives and dies for this show.

You've seen the quotes when Scandival broke, him legitimately getting mad at Ariana for not being willing to film. And it was like, we've all put our lives on this show. We've all, you know, embarrassed ourselves for the sake of the show. I'm committed to this show. I'm committed to making great TV. I think he's like, that's how he really feels. And I think Ariana just differently is like, listen, you know, I was on the show when I, on the show when I was young, I think every season has been a new decision for me,

and now I've just decided to be done with this. And Tom is deeply offended with it. I think Sheena, like Tom, is all in van der Pram. I think when Sheena says, why can't this be about me? I get where she's coming from. I don't agree where she's coming from. Where is she coming from? She is coming from, it's about having the focus

being on her. Like having the whole season being about why everyone needs to feel sorry for Sheena, why Sheena's the victim, why Sheena is, like she's never been, she's always been a B player on Vanderpump. I know, but that's what I don't respond well to, not just in Sheena, but in anyone,

the sand of all the Sheena sort of open sort of, not desperation, but the open need for that sort of validation and attention from a storyline, Dancing with the Stars, it just, I don't know if it makes me sad or it makes me irritated. In some ways, they're openly saying, they're asking for their needs to be met,

which I guess you could argue is healthier than these other people who low-key wanna be famous the whole time, but won't come out and do something for it. But she just, I mean, and then I'm not, I actually felt for her in the sad meditation thing. I think she really is truly hurt by their friendship dissolving, 100%.

100%? Yeah. I mean, anyone who makes any moment about them, it's not like they're faking their feelings, they're just making a situation that really is about someone else, about them. I don't think Sheena's being disingenuous at all about her feelings. I think these are her real feelings.

I don't think she's making it up. I think she is just making a situation that's not about her about her. I have like an opposing kind of opinion in the sense that I'm like, it's interesting to me that all of a sudden we wanna be friends with Tom Sandoval now that it's not, we're not profiting

off of hating Tom Sandoval. Like to me, I'm like, you made a song, you made merch. That's not opposing you, you're saying anti. Yeah, I'm just saying I'm just saying like to where we're talking about like sympathy or thinking that her feelings are genuine. I kind of don't. Like I feel like where I'm like it's convenient for you to be in this position of hating Tom and being team Ariana. Again the pickup of the show filming is not that long after Skandival broke. It was only a few months after. So it's also like all of a sudden now,

Lisa has one conversation. You can check on somebody's well-being and not have to be their best friend. You can still be kind to someone and not need them back in your circle. So it's like for me, I'm like all of a sudden, we're crying over missing this friend who literally said three months prior

that he's never been your friend. He's accused you of hitting Rachel and backed that up. And I'm like, now all of a sudden we're crying over missing this friend who literally said three months prior that he's never been your friend. He's accused you of hitting Rachel and backed that up. And I'm like, now all of a sudden, this is the person you need back in your life and I'm supposed to feel bad for you? He's part of the reason why you have a restraining order on you. She's just very clearly conflicted.

And an emotionally distraught person, I think. I think Sheena should pick Tom. Why? Because you don't think Ariana gives a shit about her. I think Ariana's choices seem to have outgrown a friendship with Sheena. And I think Sheena's true loyalties, I think she has more in common with Tom. I think she has a closer friendship with Tom. I think she doesn't want to let go of her friendship with Ariana because, you know.

Ariana was hot at the minute. Yeah, or just like, you know, and I don't doubt there's a real friendship there. But like, I think from a doubt there's a real friendship there, but I think from a value system, Sheena and Tom Sandoval have more in common. And I think their friendship is more natural for them. I think Sheena's and Ariana's friendship is more based off of, you know,

it's like, I think I should be friends with you, or because girl power, or I'm supposed to side with the woman like, I think I should be friends with you, or, you know, because girl power, or like, I'm supposed to like side with the woman, where I think deep down Sheena's true loyalties are with Sandoval. I don't know. That's weird. I don't know for sure. In the beginning, you think she honestly, I mean, I think she truly was fucking disgusted

and horrified and felt like she couldn't be. This is also a girl season two or three that went to Ariana's mom saying that Tom Sandoval only looks out for himself and that he's not a good person. So I'm just like, this also hasn't been the longevity of her opinion for the last 10 years. She was not a fan of them being together. I agree that Sheena was truly disgusted

because the only, like Sheena's reaction to Sandoval was almost like, why are you so personally affected by this you know like why are you hitting because she does to the count I think because she did think that Tom was so different than that not because maybe to your point she she loved Ariana that much I think a lot of it too is that she's enjoying the fact that Tom seems so emotionally affected by the loss of their friendship. And we see that, you know, at the lunch when she says that she thinks, she truly believes that Tom is more upset about the loss of friendship between her and him

than he is over the loss of Ariana. But everyone else is like, you know? Yeah. That was a wild thing to say. In my opinion, you were talking about Sheena saying that she genuinely believes that. And I was just like, in what world would you think that your friendship meant more to him than a nine-year relationship? Even if at the end it wasn't great.

To me, I'm like, they need to be the main character all the time. It's flustering, to say the least. She's almost carving out the narrative for herself. Yeah. Like she's making the show about her because nobody else is jumping to it. Cause Arianna's not saying anything, Tom's saying something.

So she's like, why might as well? Speaking of making things about yourself, what's going on with you and Sheena? What about it? She commented on- Did she? The post that you made and it's- Which one?

We make a lot of content here. Was it the Sheena head? It was the Sheena head moving and she had some choice words. What was the content of the Sheena? On the TikTok or did she comment on TikTok or Instagram? Instagram. It's what you were saying, Amy,

where she's like, the show's never been about me. And then it's like every wedding that she's done, every good as gold performance, like a super cut. Okay, super cut of it being all about her. Yeah, essentially. Oh, did she comment on that video? What'd she say? Yeah, she said,

clearly this podcast is now about me too, with a emoji. There you go, Sheena. That's pretty good. And then she commented, I can't remember where the response is, but the response was something like, I think the comment said that this is a podcast about Sheena

and she goes, only way for Nick to stay relevant. And I'm not here to gas Nick up, believe. But like- Oh yeah, but then how would he stay relevant? Crying, laughing. As if Sheena is how you stay relevant. Honey. I feel like she doesn't know that I'm like-

We cover a show you're on, Sheena. Literally. And you are making the show about you. Wait, but why did she say that she thought, like going back to this quote unquote feud, like she was like, I thought me and Nick were friends. Like. Sheena's been on the show.

I would consider her. Did you like text? Do you hang out? No, but like we're friendly, you know. I'd like, I was always cool with Sheena, but then we had Charlie on and Charlie had some things to say about Sheena. And ever since then it's been like,

Sheena seems to be upset. And then like now we're recapping Vanderpump and I didn't choose to act the way she is acting. I don't like timing, babe. Timing like your show is airing now and this is reality recap. We're going to talk about your behavior. Should we make it a challenge to never say her name? No, that's like giving it what she wants. Yeah. Yeah, true

What she wants yeah, we can like that person not acknowledge no, but I think it is That's true. So that's a one-sided Feud that's happening right now. I mean you have no negative feelings for Sheena as a person Yeah, absolutely not clear the air as a person as a what else As a character on a show, that's what this show is. We're commentating, like it's like... But you just were saying how the overlap between, you were talking about that earlier. What do you mean? The overlap between the reality persona and the off-screen persona.

Yes, but when our criticism, the household criticism of Sheena recently has been her behavior on the show. And so we're just, it hasn't been like, I've seen. Which you don't think bears a reflection on who she is. Sure, I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt, but I'm saying specifically our criticism, like the videos we've made and the content have been commenting about a show. And we're responding to what we're seeing on the show.

It's not like it's been like, you know, you haven't seen anyone or me being like, I ran into Sheena at a party and here's what happened behind closed doors or here's what I think about Sheena the person. It's more like I'm watching sound bites in clips. The portrayal. The portrayal of the character she has decided to be. And yes, we have come to learn that, especially when it comes to Bravo World, that there might not be much of a discrepancy between these people, the characters, and these people in real life. But when it comes to our most recent commentary on Sandoval or Sheena, it's been about Sheena going on Vanderpup and saying, it's never been about me

and us being like babes. So does that mean we're team Katie then that they should cut ties and move on? I think so. Wait, what? Katie said at the lunch that she was saying, I don't understand why you're giving compassion to Sandoval, this man is a demon

and we should really all just cut ties. I mean, at some point, you just, like, a part of being adult is just saying, you know, enough is enough. You know, I don't want to be around this person. And, like, Ariana and Katie have every right to do that without having to explain themselves. Certainly Ariana.

But even Katie, or anyone. Like, to say, like, listen, I don't want to fuck with this person anymore, we all have the right to say that, right? Yeah. I don't want to fuck with this person anymore, we all have the right to say that, right? Yeah. I don't want to do it. I've given this person enough of chances. I'm done over.

If they can go work on themselves all they want, I doubt they're going to do it, but if they do, I still don't want any part of it. Like that's it. 100%. I've done that many times. Yeah. And everyone seems to be getting mad at Ariana and Katy for doing it. I think it's so bizarre where I said boundaries are things that you set for yourself,

not for other people. So it's, I'm not telling you that I won't be your friend if you hang out with this person, but yeah, the dynamics of our relationship or friendship will change based off of the choices you've made and what that person has done to me. And I think that that's entirely fair. Lala.

I'm over her saying disengage. You think it's like trying to be a catchphrase? I don't know if it's even trying to be a catchphrase. It's just Lala acting like no one has the right to question her. Like, how dare you come at me? And that's fine, but Lala comes at a lot of people. And she comes at them hard.

Not just in general, that scene between Katie and her. I actually didn't love. It made me romantic. Oh really, you were very team Katie. Oh my god, yes. See, she kind of annoyed me in that interaction. Why, what about it? I thought she escalated it first.

I think she, yes. She called her a bitch, she like. Yeah, but Katie never, like you rarely see Katie. I just thought, Lala is trying to point out, it's like Lala went through this thing with Randall, and now it's like Lala acts like she gets to decide how, because of what she went through, how Ariana should handle it. Or that because Lala chose to get over things that now Ariana needs to do it.

Reminding me what Katie was exactly mad about. Lala made a comment about, in comparison to her relationship or her situation with Randall, and then she was like, I could say something right now, but don't make me or something like that, and Katie was like, ooh. And then she was like, well, then just say it with your chest, don't threaten me. And then that's when they got into it.

But I still don't get what she's mad about. Why Lala was upset? No, why Katie was upset. I think Katie was defending her position to take the side that she was taking or just be the friend that she is trying to be to Ariana. And right now, you know, Sheena's doing her version of it, but Lala is trying to take the more pragmatic approach,

again, following her behavior on the reunion of season 10, which was aggressive, and now trying to be like, well, let me more pragmatically explain while Ariana needs to like get over it, look the other way, turn the other cheek, not hold a grudge, and let me use my past experience. Right, you think she's being hypocritical. That's what Katie thinks too.

Well, and this is in context of Lala saying, I think everybody's afraid of losing Ariana as a friend. So I think Katie was just like. I think Katie's saying like, let Ariana go through this experience, how she needs to, and it doesn't need, we don't need your input for how Ariana should behave. And you, and thanks for your opinion, Lala,

but like, I disagree or doesn't make Ariana wrong. I thought it was more that, like Lala was saying, like this is a, like our feelings about people can change and it doesn't need to be so black and white that like, you know, if Sheena wants to be friends with him, like maybe you should like let her. But that's what I'm saying. It's just like, at the end of the day, people are acting like it is Ariana's fault

for Sheena not being able to be friends with Tom. And I'm saying at some point in our adult life, when we get into our 30s, it's not like, you don't get to be friends with everyone, you don't get to be like Mr. or Mrs. Continuality. Sometimes you have to take fucking sides. Sometimes shit happens, where it's just like, you know what, as you pointed out,

you've had to do that thing. And Ariana is trying to do this, and Katie is also having her back. And I think at the end of the day, Lala, Sheena, Sandoval, and James, what they are trying to protect isn't Tom, it's the group. The show. No, the show.

I think it's the show, yeah. Whatever you want. But even in real life, forgetting about the show, that thing that happens in real life a lot, I think people have like, when you're in your 20s, you have a group of friends and shit happens. And then, you know, the group always kind of breaks up and there's always people who don't want to let go

of the group, you know, because the group's fun and we always go out and we take trips together and people don't want to disrupt the group. And I think right now, Lala and Sheena are, don't realize to disrupt the group. And I think right now, Lala and Sheena don't realize their own bias. They're being way, James is being far more, when I watched this, I was like, homeboys already going out to dinner with him.

Like that switched so fast. Sure, yeah, all of them. James isn't trying to convince Ariana or Katie to do anything. I don't think that Lala is trying to convince them to do anything personally. She's just saying, let Sheena and James and I be around Tom without giving a shit, right?

They're kind of recognizing an ultimatum. Lala is saying that everyone's afraid of Ariana, but saying it to her face as being like, you're creating this energy that it's either you or the group. So I can see why Ariana and Katie are like, if you're gonna say that, say that with your chest. Like don't dance around it. Yeah. Yeah, and I just why Arianna and Katie are like, if you're gonna say that, say that with your chest. Like don't dance around it.

Yeah. Yeah, and I just feel like Arianna and Katie have a right to say, I don't know, pick a side. Yeah, they have that right. And I don't think that makes them the bad guy because they've chosen not to, for the Unk team's time, look the other way through the actions of Tom Sandoval. Their silence is irritating them more.

I think that's what it is. Because Arianna and Katie are just pulling out and they're like, no. Like they want you to keep eating. They're like, we all got over this in the past. The show must go on. You need to like, you need to like get back, you know, reengage the group.

And Arianna was like, nah, I don't care anymore. Yeah. And I think she has the right to do that. Can we talk about Joe? That short sis, Joe. Yeah, it's like they had the right to do that. Can we talk about Joe that short says Joe? Yeah, it's that they had sex together. Well, she does. Oh, I forgot all about that. That's a personality I didn't know existed. She's very like facial very like big and I was not expecting that from Joe

but then I have to remember that Katie did say that that was Kristen Doty's crazy friend. Yeah, I'm actually willing to if if she is being honest that like oh I remember that Katie did say that that was Kristin Doty's crazy friend. Yeah. I'm actually willing to, if she is being honest that like, oh, when did you sleep together? Oh, I don't remember the last time. Oh, we slept together a month ago. Like, if Tom Schwartz is having intimate sex with her

and clearly they're not on the same page, I think Joe has the right to like, feel a certain way about it. A thousand percent. I'm just like, I think the whole way that she's being brought on is so awkward and I feel like it's just like a She's saying that she's still having relations with shorts Which he's saying that they're friends and kind of like denying or saying I can't remember the last time She's kind of just like the standalone character where I'm like, why are we?

Why are we bringing her in and how does she have an interview already? Also knowing that he is dating someone else in real life now kind of ruins the mysticism of her being brought on the show. Yeah, and he should be with the girl, Katie Floody from Winterhouse. That was a better fit for him. Such a better fit.

Yeah, I think it's just more like, I felt bad for her because the internet's being really mean to her. Yeah, I do too. And all she did is believe that her friend might be a slut. She's getting the Chelsea at it. And Tom's like, well, I don't, you know. See, but that's a situation that you're talking about.

I mean, in a less harsh version, you could be like, well, what did you expect? She got into a relationship with someone who just got out of a marriage. Like, you know, like, where's the accountability as an adult woman? I mean, I think if if you have sex with someone, like they, you know, I don't know, they can feel, I don't know what conversations Joe and Tom had afterwards. My guess is Tom didn't make it like, hey, like we're just friends.

They probably didn't talk about it. She moved in with him right after she got divorced. It seems like they have some sort of like plan where when he's, how old did he say? He said like in two to three years or something. He was talking about aliens coming and he was like in two to three years I'll be ready to be in a relationship with you or something. And I was like, what insurance is that? Yeah, he's saying some things that she's picking up on that he's not saying to lead her on, he's saying to not be the bad guy and she is interpreting it.

So you're saying there's a chance. Yeah, you know. When aliens come to, so there's a chance. Sure you're not a tall gray, I was like, this is the oddest. And we're all making fun of her for being delusional and I'm just, I'm like. I'm not making fun of her for being delusional. I mean the internet, not us. Okay, I I was like I feel like I was a bold choice and

unnecessary to bring her on to begin with I just feel like in general we're like we're at the midseason yeah and it's a weird spot guys I'm sorry I don't think Vanderpump is long for this world yeah what do you mean I think it's done did you hear did you see Andy's little no what did What did he say? He was flying into L.A. They filmed the reunion this weekend, the Vanderpump reunion. Yeah. He was like, I just binge the last seven episodes, because, by the way, I agree with you. I felt like up until this weekend, like, this is it. Like, this is a show about a group that doesn't want to stay together.

Ariana is making choices for herself outside of the show and healthy choices. But as far as the show goes, it doesn't work. And I don't know what Andy meant by this, but he was like, this is not an ad, I'm not a producer of the show, yeah, he hosts the reunion, but I'm going out there and putting it out there that this is an amazing ending,

an incredible finish, and a great season, and I just finished the last seven episodes, and you're all gonna be blown away. A great finish, a great ending? That's what Andy Cohen said? So you're saying you think it's wrapped up, or it could be going, keep going? That was unclear.

But I don't think they necessarily... I mean, if they can keep going, they can keep going. Well, in my interview with Ariana, she was like... I think she basically all but said... She said, I can't... I wouldn't leave the show till I had another financially equal job set up and that if Bravo would not cancel it if it was doing this well.

Is that pre Chicago? No. Oh, another thing that I'm kind of blown away by is, and maybe they're downplaying their financial situations, but how are they all seemingly broke? Who? Ariana? Ariana said she was down to her last 2,000.

Sheena has- Because of the sandwich shop. Because of the sandwich shop? She had to put a lot of her savings into that. Interesting. But it's, and I only bring that up just in general. Now she's not broke. But cast, it's, the whole cast. Recently we had Sheena had to borrow money.

Tom had to do his tour because he needed to make money. Tom needed money, Ariane, like. Well, how much money do you think they make on that show? Well, we know that Rachel made what, 350 or whatever. And I'm gonna assume that she was on the low end of things. This is not counting. Not that low. No, I don't, yeah, I don't think there's a huge delta.

But we're still talking, that's a real money, first of all. I don't know how they spend their money. Okay, but let's say half of that for taxes. Tom Sandoval has a mortgage of how much? Sure. So, and I think- He also pays his whole tour, right? He pays like the band and all that.

I could just see that going real quick. That's their only income. Well, they also have social media. Yeah, that's kind of the point. We've all seen people blast through $50 million. And Sheena outright said basically she's supporting a lot of their relationship, right? Barack doesn't have a big income, so I don't know.

It's just wild that they seem to be struggling with money. You're saying they should have money managers. I mean, regardless of what, I don't know what they're spending on. That's kind of my point. I don't think they were struggling. Sheena just bought a house in Sherman Oak, so did Lala. They both have houses in Palm Springs.

Tom Sandoval just handed over a brand new pair of Gucci glasses to James, because they look good on him. Again, I don't know. I'm just literally going off of the most, a handful of recent episodes. As of a year ago or whatever, yeah. Multiple cast members have talked about money problems.

And this is a group of people who have been famous for the better part of a decade, and were on social media when social media was on the come-up, when there weren't an oversaturated influencer market, where they were one of the few people who had the following, who were consistently on TV, that had, you know, appearances, all the ways these people can and have made money. Again, I don't know how they're doing it.

I don't know who's managing the career. I don't know who's managing finances. But knowing the world they operate in and what opportunities are potentially available to them, I am surprised to find out how many of them seem to have money problems. You got their show paycheck. They all have close to, or somewhere around a million followers. They all, you know, women with women in audiences

makes it easier to promote things that they might use that their audience might be influenced by. So like, there's a zillion ways they can make money outside of podcasting that have been available to them. It's just, I don't know, it's just surprising. I don't know. I mean, to that point, if they own multiple homes, you would assume that they have money.

And also you can be cash poor, you know, and like you can have three houses and not have money. You know, so like. I think that was the case with Ariana. Okay, yeah. It's just like, I was, it was just more like, it's like three weeks in a row of like someone being like, yeah, I'm sorry, I'm having money problems.

And I just, I was just a little caught off guard. You know? Sheena and Lala should be air being there, Palm Springs houses at premium prices. Maybe. They could. Well, there's a lot of rules about that nowadays when it comes to Coachella or Stagecoach and owning property.

Either way, I get that's the point. They clearly seem to be spending money in an interesting way. I think we just got to close up with some- Housewives. I have sympathized with Kyle. I know you do. Let's hear the argument. Well, I am new to the newish to the show. And I can understand why she might not want to totally talk about her 23-year-old marriage, you know, falling through the cracks. But I'm not aware of other, it seems like she was... Talking about the marriage is fine and I understand that, but at the same time, again,

you can't sit there and say you won't talk about your marriage and then tell your kids that you're getting a divorce on camera and say that those two don't go together. I've seen a lot of criticism of the bringing the kids on screen. Keep it off camera if you want it off camera. Also, before this season started, you didn't have to go walking around Rodeo Drive and everywhere that paparazzi are with your friend, partner,

fleeing, whatever it may be, and then be surprised that it's not only a talking point of the show, but that your viewers have questions. So I'm like, you know who you are, you know how long you've been on the show, you've outed friends, family members with their things that I'm sure they would prefer to have kept quiet. And yet now that the spotlight is on you, it's like, well, you can't ask me that. I just don't know.

I don't have an answer. And it's like, but you expect other people to have an answer. So that's not fair. It's hard for me to argue that because you know more about the show than I do. Well, it's just as I said, she didn't have to go around getting photographed with somebody. If you wanted to keep the discrepancies in your marriage quiet, there's ten different ways to go about it. And she chose the most public way to gas up excitement about the season and hate to break it to you. But the season kind of fell flat because she refused to talk about anything, In my opinion. I mean, even at the end, Andy asked her,

is there anything going on between you guys? She goes nothing. A second later, she goes, well, I'm curious. Like there might be in the future. I don't know. Yeah, in the future. Yeah, I definitely was like, she gave vaguely worded enough answers that I read between the lines was the way I felt. Which is what she wants. Like I think she wants us to read between the lines, but I do think it's- Why wouldn't she just say it? Maybe I'm some sucker for Kyle Richards.

Maybe she just, I'm falling for that. Should I do? What? It's the same thing with like Kate Middleton, all of these situations where it's like, just take the selfie, call it a day. Just say, hey, I'm interested, we're figuring things out. Okay, like, you know, but-

What would be her, if she was dating Morgan, why don't we think she would just come forward with that? Cause it's, I think it's a whole new area of her life in which I understand. I'm like, she's been married to a man for 40 something or 30 odd years. Like I get it, it's starting a new chapter of your life and that could be scary, but I'm like,

I think the band-aid has been ripped off if it's a real relationship, you know. Let me ask you a question. What if at the reunion, she would have said, can I address the group? I realize in the past that I have come at maybe even all of you at one point and insisted for the sake of the show,

kind of like a la Tom Sandoval, that you were, I've come at you, I've demanded you explain yourself, and now that I am going through this with Mo, I realize that I'm sorry, because this is shit that's super sensitive. You're talking about a 23-year-old marriage, and is she being hypocritical?

Yes, but would that have landed for you if she acknowledged that maybe now that she's going through it, it's a lot harder to talk about this type of stuff than she has expected some of her peers to get into. Sure, but yet again, you're talking about a reality TV star taking accountability, which seems to be one of the hardest things for them to do. Fair enough, yeah.

I don't have as strong feelings as Sarah does, but I just don't like that argument in general of like the Tom and Kyle both being like, I do this, so you should do this. Like, no, just do you stop worrying about all these other people who are not revealing things or not. I just, I hate that. Yeah. Or it just makes me feel like you point the finger at other people. And then when it comes back to you, it's like, oh, no, you just be forthcoming, be honest or like nip it in the bud how you want it to be portrayed and call it a day. But instead you make it more difficult for yourself

and then act like you're the victim when people keep asking you about something that you won't just set straight. I think if she's curious and she's struggling with her sexuality, then the advice from me being a queer person would be like don't put her on the show to get tattoos and then to like lick a lollipop with her.

Like she's teasing a carrot that she knows people are gonna grab. Right, how to scissor. Do you think it's shitty? Is it like baiting? I think it's baiting. I mean, maybe she is in a relationship. Or like, what's his name from Love is Mine

making the TikTok. It's like, we don't wanna question you, but also don't make videos coming out of a literal closet and then suggesting you have a secret, you know. Cause at the end of the day, like even Cathy makes like vague statements of like support. So maybe it is something serious and like, hopefully she has that support, but I think don't dangle that fruit and then get mad if someone takes a bite.

What did you guys think when Sutton fainted? I think it made her look old. Yeah. Nick. Wow. Wait, why did, cause she looked like frail. Yeah. I don't think I've ever seen somebody faint like that. Like faint sitting know. Wait, why did, because she looked like frail? Yeah. I don't think I've ever seen somebody faint like that.

Like faint sitting down. It was, it was like, it was like. It was weird. It played raw. It played weird. It did. My big, yeah, it made her. I think it made her look, oh.

Because it was, it seemed to be based off of nothing. And like the only people who just seem to randomly fall over are the elderly. You know? I'm surprised she just left. It made her come across. She was like, great, I can peace out. Finally.

Well, Kathy was even like, I was gonna come after her, so. It made her look frail. Whatever, everyone can shit on Kyler. Sutton was my, Sutton's my Sheena of Beverly Hills Housewives. Sutton drives me nuts. I can see it. Yeah.

I mean, I love Sutton. Justin's a big Sutton fan. I'm a Sutton fan. Yeah. No, see, this is, there's all these people who get off on liking the most unlikable person on the show and like turning them into the hero. And I'm like, why are you doing this?

They're actually the most problematic person on the show. I will say I've met Sutton in person and she's like, she said things to me that are very inspirational and supportive of like, why are you doing this? They're actually the most problematic person on the show. I will say I've met Sutton in person and she's like, she said things to me that are very inspirational and supportive of young people. So I think to me, I'm like, she gets the blind eye. And what's your big problem, Sutton? Yeah.

I'm not necessarily in disagreement, but I just wanna, what specifically? Like, she sucks. Her personality, it sucks. I could see a similarity. She has the same, I'm the victim energy. Like everything is done to me and I'm so wrong that I just don't respond well to it.

Do you think she faked her fainting because knowing that Cathy might come for her? No, I don't go that far with the conspiracy. I just dislike, I don't wanna hang out with her. You didn't like name them. Name them. That was why. Stop, what else did she do that was annoying?

Oh, like the elevator thing with Erika. The dollar bills. Coming out, like rushing out in the hall, she's offended by the strip show. I think her character's a little different than her in person for sure though. Just like over the top. From my experience.

Okay. What do you think of Erica? I like Erica. What do you think? Have you guys watched Better Long Blonde? Of course I did. I need to. I've always liked Erica.

I just- I like Erica as a character, yeah. But how she's handled her own little scandal, it is, I don't buy her story. Which scandal? She has so many. Her husband. You don't buy that she didn't know? She has so many. Her husband.

You don't buy that she didn't know about it? No, actually I believe that, but I don't know why she is still trying to convince people of it, and then her acting like she's just as much of a victim as the real victims, it hasn't landed with anyone, and she seems to want, she seems to think she's entitled to some grand apology to her.

I agree. By her friends, where her friends were like, I didn't know what to believe, but like you have gone about this in a way that's hard to support. Wait, I will, she's like, everything will come out and you'll see that I had a reason to not basically be sympathetic to the victims

was sort of her argument, right? And then it came out that she did not have to give the earrings back on appeal because they couldn't prove that he paid for them with that money. That doesn't validate the way your lack of empathy or empathy towards the victims, those are unrelated issues. So why would everyone support, yeah, it doesn't make sense. That being said, I do enjoy watching her.

Oh, excellent housewife. All right, well, I think that wraps it up. God, that was like $800, guys. Amy, excellent housewife. All right, well, I think that wraps it up. God, that was like 800 hours, guys. Amy, please let my audience know where they can find you. Come to the LA Times Festival of Books in April and see me interview Jay Shetty, but you can find me at Amy K. in LA

on all the social media platforms. And she's got a book out? That's like 800 years old. Okay, just wanna make sure. Thank you, though. It was about The Bachelor. Hey, that's how Nick and I met. There you go.

All right, well, thanks for listening. We'll be back on Thursday. Oh yeah, obviously we didn't get to tell all. We haven't watched yet, but anything interesting happens, we'll talk about on the intro of Going Deeper. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Music