The Viall Files - E727 Ask Nick Update Special Episode - Part 18

Episode Date: March 29, 2024

Welcome back to The Viall Files! Today we have another special “where are they now” update show where we give you updates from our past callers to see what’s happened in their situations and relationships since appearing on the show. But wait… first we discuss controversial parenting tactics! Our first caller originally called in for Dr. Phil’s advice! Her partner was going to prison for his 3rd DUI, and she was wondering if she should break up with him. She has since found out that he was cheating on her, and has thus broken up. Our second caller had first called in because she caught her ex cheating through a security camera, and was having a hard time moving on. He is now married to his ex, and she is now in a much better place, mentally. Our third caller had originally called in because her mom wouldn’t accept her leaving the church. There have been conversations with her parents since, and there’s a new approach to setting boundaries. We also have some written updates - Our caller whose boyfriend cheated on her with his cousin, and our caller who didn't approve of her best friend's cheating escapades. To catch up on all of these callers original questions please see the show numbers:   Original Episode numbers for callers: Episode Number: 718 Ask Nick with Dr. Phil - He’s Going to Prison, Should We Date Episode Number: 699 Ask Nick - Caught Cheating in 4k Episode Number: 705 Ask Nick - My Coworker Won’t Stop Flirting With Me Original Episode numbers for written updates: Episode Number: 637 Ask Nick My Boyfriend’s Emotional Affair With His Cousin Episode Number: 659 Ask Nick - Should I End My Marriage? (Originally on Episode Number: 621 Ask Nick - I Think I’m Emotionally Abusive) “You shouldn’t be getting more confused, you should be less confused”  Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://www.viallfiles.supportingcast.fm  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  To Order Nick’s Book Go To: http://www.viallfiles.com  To advertise on the show, contact [e-mail] or visit https://www.advertisecast.com/TheViallFiles  Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @alison.vandam @justinkaphillips @leahgsilberstein @dereklanerussell

What's going on everybody. Welcome back to a new and exciting episode of the Vile Files update classic edition. I'm your host Nick joined by the household of Ali, Leia, and sweet boy Justin. You just get one sweet boy today. Oh, sorry Scooter. I mean Scooter. One of these days. If it's not sticking at this point.

No, it's gonna stick. I just, you know. The people like it, so. Yeah, Scootsamagoots. Anyway, it's update time. We got some great updates for ya. I know you guys love the updates. We love bringing it to you.

Again, if you're thirsting for more updates, there are many more episodes of updates behind VyloFilesPlus. Just go to VyloFiles.com to sign up. It's a free seven day trial and you will have oodles and oodles of updates from all your favorite callers from Ask Nick to texting office hours and more. But this episode is for everyone, all the people who are just too lazy to sign up for Vile Files Plus.

You're missing out because Plus, we also have some Vanderpump, we're going back and we're recapping all episodes of Vanderpump. We're in the middle of season three. And then we have our weekly pop culture roundup, also known as Pop Extra, that drops every week. So. Personally, highlight of my week.

Yeah. So fun. I don't know what the fuck, you guys are not listening. My dear friend is behind Plus, so. My dear't know what the fuck you guys are not listening to. My dear friend is behind Plus. So. My dear friend, yeah. Remember her? Remember her?

Her husband? Husband, right? Husband, yeah. Yeah. She asked for a divorce on the show. Woof, what an update. And then the other lady who had to tell her husband, or fiance, I think a fiance. No, the one who wanted to tell her boyfriend

that she was a lesbian. Yes. And then instead of telling him, he proposed, and then she said yes. And then, boy, there was an update there. Anyway, so many more updates behind Vile Files Plus. Anyway, if you haven't listened to the episode of Joey and Kelsey, that dropped yesterday.

What a fun episode. We have Katie Maloney and Dana Cathan from Disrespectfully on this week's episode, or last week's episode. This week's, this week's episode. This past, this current week's episode of Rally Recap. Yes, Tuesday. Next week. We got Rally Recap going deeper.

We got Daisy. Anyway, what are we getting into before we get to our updates? Before we get into it, we have some parenting techniques and decisions that could be considered controversial. Oh my God. That we've pulled from the household, people who either their parents have done it, their friends who our parents are doing, and also TikTok. So we're going to go through these parenting techniques and see what you think as a new parent.

Hang your kid upside down for 45 minutes. Okay agreed Similar to what we're gonna do on ask Nick which is the guess who game of like which parenting technique First trauma Ali trauma is this No, we won't say who receive who was on the receiving end of some of these, but we'll leave it up to your imagination. Okay, so the first one is spoiling your kids, so saying yes to whatever they want. Absolutely not. Yeah.

My kid, River, will know disappointment. She will understand the concept. She will often be disappointed. And that is my responsibility as a father father despite me wanting to give her everything That could she possibly because she could possibly want because she is the cutest thing and most adorable thing ever She's a side sleeper, which makes it really cute. I don't know. Yeah, he just likes to sleep on her side It just makes it more like human. I don't know what it is. It's really cute. Anyway, she will know disappointment Absolutely, she will understand the concept of not getting what she wants

and having to adjust. So the opposite. Yeah, I will absolutely not spoil, like, oh my God. It makes my skin crawl the idea of my kid being entitled or a brat or not respecting their elders. That's another thing. No, like I think nowadays we're so afraid, like, no one can parent my kid but me.

What? We used to raise our kids as communities and now it's like everyone's like, don't talk to, you can't. So no one fucking respects anyone. They barely respect their parents. My kid will respect their elders. Anyways, I can go on and on.

Go ahead. No, I agree with you. I feel like I grew up with a lot of people who had a lot of money and I really respected the fact that they didn't, they weren't spoiled, and they still went and got jobs. Yeah, my kid will have a job. Yeah.

She'll have chores, she'll have responsibilities. And it taught them discipline, and to still work hard in school, and to still know. Nally sent me, I believe it was a TikTok somewhere, I apologize, I don't know the creator's name, but talked about how studies have shown that kids with chores and responsibilities as young kids grow up to be happier.

Listen, what's the point of being in this world if you don't feel a sense of purpose? You know what I'm saying? And honestly, being a dad more than anything, what it has given me is purpose. Not that I didn't have purpose before, but anything, when you wake up with a sense of purpose, something to live for that's bigger than you,

that's what life's all about, you know? And like having purpose, responsibilities, things to do, things to aspire for, something to earn towards, you know? And like kids need some sort of structure and responsibility. And yeah, studies have shown that they grew up to be happier adults when they have some type of structure and chores and things like that, so.

I've done my laundry since middle school, so. Laundry. Every Thursday we had to do, we had to vacuum and dust our rooms. Every night we had the kids have to clean the kitchen. And for some reason, it was sweeping the kitchen floor. We would fight over who had to do it. I don't know why.

Sweeping is fun. It's better than dishes. It was, yeah. Drying was always the chore everyone wanted. Washing, drying the dishes. I don't want that. I'll scrub it, you can dry it. Because drying gets more tedious.

I hate, honestly now I'll wash. I don't like putting things away. Oh yeah, that's the worst. But sweeping the floor, I don't know, we bizarrely would fight over it, but we had to do it every night. There was a family vacation that we went on and we'd done it over a weekend

and we were loving our stay and my parents were thinking about extending our trip into the next week and everyone was fine with it. My parents could take work off and I was like, we cannot extend this family trip because I have to work at Kumon tomorrow I have a shift Monday afternoons 12. Wow, and you're bringing that to make sense. My parents were like we can't like we have to reward this behavior and give in to her because she's being responsible

But they were all so mad that I cut the trip short Wait, so wait they you cut the trip short. It wasn't like I was like we can't say another day I have to work at Kuman and they were like, okay, I guess we're flying home That's my solution, you know, honestly, I feel like if my 12 year old had a sense of responsibility and like I would I would yeah, I would I would reward that for sure. Yeah Alright, what else we got? Okay, letting kids watch PG-13 movies or TV shows. What age?

What age do you think it's appropriate to start letting them? My parents were pretty strict, and I really hated it. In high school, my parents, my friends would always tease me that I wasn't allowed to watch Bambi, or that I was only. Bambi? Bambi?

Only allowed to watch Bambi. Oh, okay. You know? I mean, shit, okay. You know. I mean, shit, I don't know, nowadays, again, with social media and phones, like, that's the least of my fucking concerns, whether my kids are watching PG-13 movies. Honestly, please, just because of the shit.

Like, I hope that, I hope we wake up as a nation, as a society, as a culture, and realize that kids should not be having phones. Phones are super computers with access to anything in the world. And when you give your kid a fucking phone, you give the world access to them. Ugh, so fucking scary.

And no matter how strict Nellie and I might be and how many restrictions and things we put on our phone, like again, whether we like it or not, we raise our kids in the society and communities that we're a part of. And so we have to come together, truly, because it's terrifying. We can be as strict as we want. We're not going to be fucking bubble parents.

We're not going to be helicopter parents. We're going to want to give them independence and we're going to want to trust her to go hang out with her friends. And unfortunately, if all of her friends have cell phones and access to internet, what the fuck are we gonna do? It's fucking terrifying. Yeah. Anyway, yeah, PG-13 leads to my fucking concerns.

I wasn't allowed to watch Cartoon Network as a kid. We didn't have cable, so I wasn't allowed to watch anything. You won't like the next one then because this one leads to a lot of phone use. Not setting a bedtime, which I think nowadays a lot of kids stay up on their phone then. Oh yeah, I mean, she'll have a bedtime. She'll have rules. She'll have- You have to have structure.

Structure, kids need fucking structure. They need responsibility. They need to, you know. So what's the bedtime? I don't know. I feel like mine was 7.30 for a really long time. Probably, 7.38, I don't know. Fuck, if Nellie and I can go to bed at nine, we're down.

So. Ready, it also helps the parents for sure. Okay, forcing them to play a sport or instrument. Forcing, forcing is a strong word. I would highly encourage our daughter to be involved in things. Obviously I play sports, so like there's a passion of mine for having my children to be in a sport,

but I just want my kids to be passionate about something. They have to try things out. But I'm not going to make them do any type of sport. So maybe an instrument of some kind, maybe it's dance, maybe, I don't care. I want my kid to want to be the best at something. I want them to be involved. I want them to socialize. I want them to get out there and try and fail and try new things out.

So I will encourage them to be involved in things. I'm not gonna force them to do any one thing though. If they're not passionate about it. Would you be like, you need to stick with this a certain amount of time? Yeah, you know, what, you know, cause that's what kids do. Like, I wanna try this, I wanna like, I'm,

I'm gonna do this and then they wanna quit. Yeah, they have to follow through, you know? You have to follow through, you gotta stick through things. So, I don't know, again, I don't know what those parameters are, but yes, they won't be able to just try and quit in a day, they will have to work through adversity, they'll have to work through disappointment. Like one thing I'm really excited about doing,

like, cause again, I'm a big believer that at the end of the day, all these little things that we talk about, my one job, other than loving my child and making sure she feels loved is to teach her how to make decisions for herself. Because at any moment, I don't know when we'll not be there to help her make decisions. So I can't wait till she's at the age. Natalie and I obviously travel a lot for work and we're very fortunate with the lifestyles we're able to live.

If that continues, fucking, cause I didn't go on my first plane ride until I was in middle school and then it was like 10 years later before I went on my second ride, but second one. But I can't wait to go to the airport, me, Natalie, River, who, you know, I don't know how else it's going to be in the family of the dogs, and ask River to like get us to where we need to go. How do we get our flight? That is such a good life skill. Oh, to navigate on your own. How do we get on a flight?

I had to start flying alone in middle school, and I was just dropped off at the airport and was like, go. Are we gonna show up with River? I'm gonna be like, all right, tell us where to go. Yeah, the first time I flew alone was the most terrifying thing I've ever done in my life. I don't want her to fly alone.

I mean, maybe that might need to happen, but we'll be there, but I want her to show us how to get there. I was like 20. I wanna, you know, I don't know what age it is, but as soon as she's like, you know, it might be like six or seven and be like, all right, how do you check the flights?

What happens when, you know. Put her in Girl Scouts. Yeah, I think it's important for kids to pinpoint what their passions are, and then to start them with something so that they always have something outside of school or outside of their friendships that gives them joy and that they're good at. I love that I hated doing piano lessons

when I was growing up, but I love that I know how to play the piano now. And so I just, yeah. Yeah, you gotta work through things. To do anything great, you have to put in the work. Yeah, 100 hours. You know, and so. No, how many hours?

10,000 hours. 100 hours seems. It's not really gonna get you to where you wanna go. Not the work. But yeah, you have to put in the work regardless, you know, and hopefully you'll find something where you enjoy the work. But you know, to do that,

you have to try a bunch of different things. I want my son to be a football kicker. A football, or a golfer. Punter even, really. The kickers don't get hurt. Well, kickers very high pressure job. They get paid a little bit more, but punters, literally no pressure for punters.

Literally zero pressure. But for a kicker, you have to put them in soccer first. Cause then they learn how to kick, then you put them in football after. Yeah, they gotta do soccer first. Yeah. All right fine. Whatever, but it's a high-paying job very You know not gonna get hurt, but yeah high pressure high stakes high pressure. Yeah, okay wait This is a good one piercing kids ears very early. I'm not gonna knock it

You know I mean, I don't think we're gonna do that with River if some kids want it I know culturally it's in some cultures, it's part of the culture. I don't know, just fucking be safe, do it right. I did it very early. I wasn't allowed to. I don't have a strong, I mean, for, I mean, I think it's babies. I don't remember if River gets a certain age

if she wants it. Yeah, we'll probably, again, I will use anything she wants as an opportunity to get her to earn that chance. But you're gonna wait for her to request it as opposed to doing it like- Absolutely. She's gonna have to want it. And anything she wants, she's gonna have to earn. Short of it being her birthday or Christmas, anything she's like, mom, dad, I want so and

so, great, she's gonna have to earn it somehow, someway. She's gonna have, she's gonna know what it feels, and that's like honestly the thing I'm most grateful for. Like I get my work ethic from my mom, from a DNA standpoint, like I can tell, I get that from my mom. But like, out of necessity, my parents didn't have a ton of money. Like I had a great childhood.

Everything I needed to survive I had. Everything I wanted I had to work for because they just couldn't afford it. They had so many kids. So like, I knew what it was to want something and go to work and get it done. And that mentality has served me well throughout life. You know, and I know that people I grew up with and kids that didn't have to, that was just like,

you know, here, here's a GI Joe, here's this, here's that, you know, there was no, there was, it's entitlement. I think they're, they should get something. There's no sense of earning something and the pride that you get from earning something. 100%. Appreciating it, yeah. Feels much better to buy something with your own money than with someone else's money. I will say if she wants a piercing, don't take her to Claire's. Okay.

Oh yeah, you gotta do the needle. The gun piercing is like bad for your ear. Okay, we'll definitely do a research. Okay, we'll do just a few more. If your kid is throwing a temper tantrum in a store, do you give in or let them cry and ignore them? My kid will be incapable of embarrassing me. I was afraid of my mom.

I agree with that. Incapable. Let me like, you want to do this? Okay, I've been on national television. I've embarrassed myself in ways you can't even imagine, River. So what do you do? This little grocery store episode that you're putting on, I'm unfazed.

So what do you do? I don't know, I don't know what's happening. She wants Cocoa Puffs and you're like, we are'm unfazed. So what do you do? I don't know, I don't know what's happening. She wants Cocoa Puffs, and you're like, we are not getting Cocoa Puffs. If she throws a fit, I mean, again, I'm pretty sure that she will, if she does that, it will be fairly early, and she will pay the consequence. She will learn quickly.

You have to practice your like, don't you dare face. Don't you dare. Or you like whisper quietly. I just got left. I threw a temper tantrum in a store, not a storm. And my mom was like, okay, deal with that. I'll be over here. My mom did the same thing, yeah.

Yeah, I think that's the perfect way of handling it. I think it actually works out. Do you have abandonment issues? Figure your shit out, kid. Nothing worse than losing your parent in a grocery store. Yeah, I don't know if I'm gonna abandon my kid. No offense to your parents.

She didn't leave the store. But did you thought, you thought she did. That's all that matters is my kid's perspective. No, she literally was like, I'll be over here. I will say the way my mom did it, love her, I think it worked out, was a Walmart parking lot. I didn't wanna get in the car, that's how I was revolting. She's like, fine, okay.

So she like drove just around the parking lot block. And I was like, and in my head I was like, oh, she left me in this parking lot. But she was just like, she was like an aisle over in the parking lot. That actually happened to my dad with his, his dad like dropped them off, he's like, they were fighting in the back seat,

he's like, get out of the car. They all get out and then he like drove around the block, he was gonna come right back, but in the meantime they all left. And so then he was like driving around for hours trying to find them and they were just like That's funny. Yeah, I don't think River is gonna be able to embarrass Nellie and I and now I and I are both pretty stubborn I imagine River will have some stubbornness, but I don't think she'll be able to out stubborn us You can't you can't out stubborn the most stubborn of them all. Yeah

Okay, this one is interesting sleepovers. It's a great question Complicated question. I'm a big believer in, especially nowadays, I think again, we're, as a society, as a culture, I think COVID did this, where we've become more isolated, we're staying inside, we're not socializing just in general and therefore our kids are socializing less and kids are making less and less friends and things like that.

And sleepovers are a great way to offer your kid independence. Even at an early age, there needs to be moments at the appropriate age, I don't know what that age is, where your kid feels like mom and dad aren't there. There's again, some supervised independence. You're not leaving your kid alone, but they have a sense of being on their own,

where they're not being watched. And at that I think from everything I've learned is an important part of child development at the same time, especially having a daughter. I mean, anyone can be a gross discussing pedophile or whatever, but like, there's something very uncomfortable about like step dads. You know, it's just like.

Or like other people's parents. Yeah, you're gonna have to really know, you have to know the parents. And yeah, listen, divorce happens, people need to date, we're big supporters of single moms and getting out there and having the right to find love. But if there is a new guy that we don't know of single moms and getting out there and having the right to find love. But like, you know,

if there is a new guy that we don't know or don't feel familiar with that has no, especially if they're not a dad themselves, they're just a stepdad. Yeah, you know, you want that. There's going to be a lot of like background checking and you're going to have to feel very safe because yeah, there's, there was recently a fucking story, I think somewhere in like fucking Pennsylvania, not too long ago, it's on People Magazine, did a, but some, I think it was a stepdad, was drugging young girls, like 12, 13 year old girls,

and one of the girls called her mom, texted her mom, come pick me up, and felt like this is weird, and like he was medicating them. It was fucking horrific. Listen, the thing about the internet nowadays is like, unfortunately, horrific things have been, it's not like all of a sudden these bad things were happening. Now we're just hearing about more, but now we're more aware, now we're more in tune. We're catching more people. In the past, we were just naive and ignorant and people weren't getting caught. And then you do all these like crazy documentaries about all the horrific

fucking things. You can't avoid it. But yeah, I think it's a very, it's a very post-war challenge. You really have to know the parents. I think you have to have a sense of trust and familiarity with the parents. But I do think once you have that, it's a great way to have your kid, you know, I've had some great sleepovers as a kid. Some of my best memories, you could stay up late and do some, you know, I've had some great sleepovers as a kid, some of my best memories, you could stay up late and do some, you know, but you just wanna make sure your children are safe and that who's watching them, you know, so it's a tricky one.

But I think as parents, we have to challenge ourselves to not live scared, to not isolate, because, you know, there are crazy, you have to be protective and smart and diligent, but you can't be, you can't coddle and bubble your kids up, you know, and so you have to just do the work to be proactive and then find communities with people you trust and parents you trust and things like that. So long winded question, I think yes to sleepovers, but with a lot of work leading

up into how you allow that to happen. Yeah, that's a really good point. Okay, we'll end it here, because this one kind of ties into one of our update callers, religion. How so? Meaning, so for example, I grew up Orthodox Jewish, and so there were a lot of rules that surrounded that

in terms of like what I could wear, observing the Sabbath on Saturdays and what I could and couldn't do on that day. So, I mean, I'm very thankful and happy about the way that I grew up and my parents were super accepting when I decided to stop being religious. But I've seen that go wrong in a lot of households. Oh, sure, we've talked to a lot.

I mean, one of our most popular audience groups are like fallen, one of our most popular audience groups are like fallen, whatever, Christians, Mormons, Catholics, whatever, people who have left the church have felt like excommunicated by the church and have found community in our audience because, you know, we talk about that a lot. I too was raised incredibly Catholic. I was raised around nuns and priests. I had a great experience with that. I am not a practicing Catholic today. Natalie's never been all that religious.

But to your point, I honestly, I appreciated that part of my childhood. I appreciated that sense of community. I appreciated how my parents raised me. And I actually, knowing that Natalie and I are not practicing, there's a part of me that feels like my kids will, how do we give what I got as a child that was beneficial?

How do we give our kids that, even if we're not practicing in church? Yeah, I couldn't agree more with that. Danny and I have had that conversation a lot because we're both not practicing anymore, but we love the way that we were raised, and so it's hard to balance, how do we instill that sense of community

and structure and like, you know. Believing in something greater than yourself and you know, the purpose of prayer, it's like a meditation, you know. Are you gonna pray with River, do you think? Like would you even just do like nighttime prayers? Yeah, yeah, for sure, right? Because I think the whole idea is,

you know, we want her to think for herself and at the appropriate age, she can decide who she wants to believe. But yeah, it's finding a way to teach. I think it's important, again, for kids to understand that there's something greater than themselves. I have a lot of opinions about religion and how it's abused and weaponized and used as a manipulation tactic, but I also like have a great admiration and respect for it when used in the right way and I see the value in it. And I do think it's important to believe

in something greater than yourself. I think with the people, nowadays, there's so many people who have such a bad taste in their mouth with religion, and understandably so. And there's other people who are just very anti-religious to the point where they kind of mock it, or like almost got, like, oh, you're religious? Like, are you gonna fucking, like, it's, again,

we live in a world where extremes are the voices heard through social media. But yeah, without believing in something you're doing yourself, you shouldn't think you're the most important person in this world. You shouldn't, you know, I don't want our daughter or any of our kids to be, have fucking main character syndrome

as a fucking eight year old. And, you know, yeah, Catholic guilt goes a little too far, as Allie might know, in terms of thinking you're supposed to suffer your way through life so you can get to heaven, that's a little fucking hardcore. But there is something about sacrifice and giving things up and not everything being about you. You know, and so, you know, it's like,

we wanna take all the good stuff and not the bad stuff, but, oh fuck, we're probably gonna fuck up, you know? Obviously. No, it's tough. I just think at the end of the day, once a kid comes to a decision on their own or gets to a certain age where they decide one way or the other, that that's when the parents

need to kind of let go and let their child make that decision for themselves and say, okay, I gave you the fundamentals and the building blocks, and now it's up to you how you wanna observe. Well, so many people, their whole identity is wrapped up into their religion, you know, and they're part of the church and then they feel like if their kids don't, you know, do the thing that they did, you know, they'll be judged as parents by their communities. There's a lot of layers to it that make it difficult.

Yeah, and there's also the, you know, we spent hundreds and thousands of dollars on your, you know, Jewish education and then, yeah, it's tough. That's a complicated one. That's's tough. That's a complicated one. That's another one. That's a whole new one. Yeah, because I don't even know like where River will go to school. Like I was a public kid. I don't know if that's going to be something we want to do with her.

I would love for River to go to public schools, but I don't know if we'll feel comfortable with wherever that is available to her. Maybe we send her to like a religious school of some kind, even though she's not religious. I don't fucking know, you know? But although all the kids that went to high school at Catholic Memorial High School in Waukesha, which is like the Catholic school in Waukesha, still exists.

People listening probably have kids going there right now, but when I was a kid, it was all, yeah, if you're Catholic, but it was expensive. It was a private school. So also a lot of rich kids went there. And so some of the fucking worst kids were there. And it was like half the kids who went to Catholic Memorial were a bunch of rich absentee parents who had big houses and a bunch of parties.

So a lot of the fuck ups went to Catholic Memorial and it wasn't like, oh, send your kid to the private school, they'll get the best education. No, you're going to, you send your kid to Catholic Memorial and they'll get like a little like mini class and drugs and alcohol and parties and like growing up too fast. So, you know, kind of be careful, you know, it's not always the best place. Maybe things have changed at Catholic Memorial. Sorry, Catholic Memorial. Also COVID was like the best thing that could have happened to a lot of Catholic schools because enrollment went way up.

That makes sense. Yeah. Well, it's time to get to our updates. Again, don't forget, if you want some more of these bad boy updates, to vile files comm sign up for file files plus It's free to sign up you get a seven-day free trial You can totally binge you probably can listen to all the updates if you want in seven days I think that's a little aggressive I think you should just sign up join stick around and join in the fun support the show But that's your call Let's ask Nick your sexy questions.

Welcome back, Sarah. Thank you, Nick. How are you? I've been better. Okay, well, I'm sorry to hear that. You first called in on Dr. Phil's episode of Ask Nick not too long ago, and you were calling in because your boyfriend at the time was, I think, on his way to prison or going

to prison for what was his third DUI, at least? Correct. Yeah. And you were questioning whether you should stay together with him or not. And well, let's play a quick clip so that our audience is reminded of that original call. And then we'll go from there. My boyfriend's going to prison,

and I'm not sure if I should stay with him. Okay. First, and maybe most important question, what is he going to prison for? Sorry, I'm really nervous. That's okay, take a breath. He is, it's a DUI. Okay. How long you been with him? Two and a half years. And just off the top of your head, I'm sure you've

thought a lot about pros and cons. How long is he going to prison for by the way? Hopefully two way. Um, hopefully two years, but it's, uh, it could be two to 15. Okay. In addition to his incarceration, have you used this time to evaluate other aspects of this relationship that maybe weren't serving you? Uh, yeah, absolutely. The relationship has become very like distant, even while he was like fighting his case, he just became very detached because he does have a really good job and it takes up a lot of his time. And I just felt kind of like put to the wayside, I guess. Adam Lickman Sure. Can I jump in here? Dr. Phil Can I ask you a couple of questions?

Dr. Kirst? Of course. What else is going on here? Because he's not going to prison for two to 15 years for a DUI. No, it's one of a few. It's happened before. Like how many? Um, three, I believe. Yeah. And was anyone seriously injured or killed? No, no, no one's ever been injured or killed. No. Okay. So he has three DUIs and they're sending him to prison for two to 15 years? Yeah. This would be the conviction.

Yeah. Good for them. Because he has no right to get on public roads in a three, four, $5,000 rocket impaired and drive up and down the street with all the rest of us walking around out there with families and children and that sort of thing. So if he didn't learn after the first time or the second time, and now it's the third time, then he's exactly where he should be, where he can't do that. But he's apparently got a serious problem. Has he gotten help for it? Dr. Ketchum Yes, he has. Dr. Sproul How many times has he been to rehab?

Dr. Ketchum I am not actually sure about that. We're both sober. I was sober for longer when I met him. I wasn't exactly privy to the information that he hadn't been sober very long when I met him. I wasn't exactly privy to the information that he hadn't been sober very long when I met him originally. Yeah. So you found out maybe some lies that he shared with you when you first met? Yeah, I would say, I called them lies because it was withholding the truth. Yeah. It sounded like lies to me. Okay. Yeah. What. Yeah.

What are you pretending not to know? What do you… Can you rephrase that? Sorry. No. What do you mean? No, I won't rephrase it. Just I'll let you answer.

What are you pretending not to know? Yes, maybe that it isn't going to work out. I mean, really, I mean, he's gotten distant. So the relationship's not working when he is sober. I think empathy kind of blinded me. And I also have a lot of personal issues as well. So I think I was and still am just empathetic towards the situation. I mean, I work in this field with a lot of men and women who have issues with this, and they're all just trying to do their best. So I think I just maybe was blinded by that.

Dr. Cadell Smith Yeah. And if this was the only issue, and he was leaning into treatment and showing remorse and everything else in the relationship worked great, he would be able to predict a different future. But what future do you… I mean, the best predictor of future behavior is relevant past behavior. So, what do you predict here? I mean, there's still hope, I guess, but logically, no. I mean, yeah, if I look at the history and I'm actually logical about it,

then I probably could find someone more suitable for me, absolutely. Well, I always say that hope in a relationship is a sign of the things that you don't have in the relationship rather than the things that you do have in the relationship. So, the fact that you keep saying the word hope, you know, and I think that's calling out

what your relationship is missing. Well, you got a lot of things going for you. You're doing the work. You have a lot to be proud of, and, you know, try to acknowledge that for yourself and give yourself credit, you know, try to acknowledge that for yourself and give yourself credit, you know, because obviously breakups are hard and it sounds like this person in this situation is bringing you down and very heavy on your heart and I can't help

but wonder if you say goodbye to it, you might be freed up a lot emotionally and be better for it. Yeah, I tend to agree. Yeah. All right. So as obviously as you can tell, I think the feedback you got from Dr. Phil and I was ultimately kind of pushing you towards maybe ending the relationship.

You were putting a lot of work into yourself and you had, as you mentioned, you've made a lot of past mistakes of your own. You were trying to take accountability for those mistakes and turning your corner, and yet, through the actions of your partner, it was more demonstrating that he was not, but it sounded like you felt a lot of guilt

towards maybe leaving him, you know, because other people had given you grace and things like that, but you were making so many positive choices that we ultimately suggested that maybe he wasn't on the same path ultimately, right? And so that's where we left it. What's the update on your end? On the update, he's still going to prison in about, in a few months. There's not any word on exactly how many years he'll spend in prison, but, maybe in September.

This is a woman that he knew from a previous guy that he had been in jail with, and I asked if he had been seeing her, and he told me multiple times that he had not. And when I was at his house, there were three text messages from this woman. And I'm generally not a person who looks at my partner's phone. I choose to trust people and I don't really like doing that.

But I opened it and there was just a slew of text messages that were inappropriate. And it was very clear to me that he has been seeing her. I'm sorry to hear that. So I, I confronted him. And, you know, I said, I need I need to talk to you. And he said about the fact that you looked at my phone and I said, yeah. And then he got upset. Blamed you, tried to make you feel like the bad guy?

He absolutely did. And I just, I pulled him outside because there were other people there that I didn't want to hear the conversation. And I said, have you been seeing her. And I said, you know, have you been seeing her? And he said, what do you mean seeing? Like, she's in rehab or something. And I said, your text messages are inappropriate. And he's like, well, yeah, I've been flirting with her. And I said, okay, we're done.

And I said, don't call me, don't text me, and the last thing he said to me was, okay, well if you change your mind, and then I left. So. I'm sorry that happened. I'm more sorry that you're upset, because I guess my question is, what were you going to do had you not found that?

Like, you originally called the show questioning whether you should stay with him or not, even to prison, obviously, you already know what we thought. Yeah. Were you planning on not, I mean, that's fine, you don't have to take our advice, you know, it's just, we got to talk to you for a few minutes, but I'm getting the impression that you were deciding

to maybe still try to make it work with him. Or, you know. But yeah, I'm not gonna lie, yeah. I probably was going to give him the benefit of the doubt. Okay. But after that happened, I just thought it was disgusting. It is. It's definitely disgusting.

You have all the reasons in the world to feel bad and gross and hurt. But what you do have that you didn't have earlier, I hope, is clarity. Yes. Just to remind you of your first call, it was, hey, I'm in the relationship with this guy, I care about him, we both have a past,

I'm already working on mine, and you wanna believe that he's wanting and willing to be a better person, but his actions told you otherwise, and you were having a hard time giving up on him. Now, you've gotten more information and more confirmation that you're not giving up on him, that you have the right to leave him, you know, that you have the right to

leave him, that he is not making healthy choices, that he is in fact on a very different path than you. And now you have the benefit of deciding to leave him without any guilt, guilt that you would have had before because part of the reason why, if I'm understanding correctly, that you were choosing to stay with him in the past was just was this sense of, I can't do this to him. People have been there for me. How can I quit on him? And it's the right thing to do.

And now you don't have to worry about any of that. Now it can be about, hey, this guy clearly is not who he claims to be. He's not honest with me. He lies with me. And when I catch him in something, and yeah sure You couldn't shouldn't object his phone But he's a bit gaslighty and he blames you and he's not really willing to own it and the whole like will call me If you change your mind, what a fucking shitty thing to say Again, that's a very telling thing to say that's that's a that's a person who's like saying Listen, if you're always willing to put my bullshit

Give me a call because I won't change and as long you're always willing to put up my bullshit, give me a call, because I won't change. And as long as you're willing to put up with who I am, I'll keep hanging out with you. And he will. If you call him up, he will keep hanging out with you because he's not gonna change.

Because he's willing to lie, he's willing to be deceitful, he's willing to use and manipulate, and he's used to that. And that's, you know, so it really costs him nothing to lie to you because if you're willing to put up with his bullshit, he's gonna have the occasional companionship,

he's gonna have the friend when he's in prison, and things like that. So I would encourage you if you can to try to look at this a different way. And I understand you being hurt and all, but to me this is good news. This is a blessing that you got information that you didn't have before that should make it easier

for you to leave him without any guilt and be glad that you did and be thankful that he's now out of your life and you can wash your hands of this and move on. Yeah, no, I agree with that. I think it was something that needed to happen as painful as it was like it was kind of a slap

in the face for me. Just like this all the information that I had that he hadn't been honest with me for about many, many things. And this was the one thing I said I wouldn't tolerate.

And apparently I needed the one thing I said I wouldn't tolerate. And apparently I needed that one thing. Yeah, well, I hope this is it, because I'm getting the impression you've given him multiple chances. Oh, yeah. So what's gonna- No, not with cheating.

Okay. No, only one. I hope this is what it takes. And if it is, I honestly think this is a blessing. Because unfortunately we're not surprised on this end to hear about what happened. Because everything, hearing what you had to say about him, it just seemed pretty clear what he was all about.

No one that I know was awfully surprised either. So that's telling. Again, your ego is hurt, but are you really that surprised? Take you out of the equation. No. This isn't, you know, I know, having been cheated on, I know how it can like affect your, you know,

sense of self-worth and how it makes you feel and all those things, but it doesn't, you know, change the facts. And the facts are this is someone who has a consistent pattern of being selfish and disappointing people who really care about them and has manipulated and lied and done it over and over and over and apologizes and apologizes with ever actually evoking any real change.

I guess he was just one of those guys though, he said he never cheats. I believed him. Sure. Most cheaters are liars. Yeah, I can't really see a guy saying, yeah, I always cheat, so that is a good point. Even if he had never cheated before, you know, and also, like, he, in his mind, he doesn't think he has.

You know, he's like, oh, I flirted. What is that? You know, what does cheating mean to you? You know, it's such a vague thing. He's like, well, I didn't have an orgy with five women while I had a girlfriend. I didn't cheat, you know? Meanwhile, this guy clearly doesn't think, you know, hitting on someone and being flirty in public or texting with them or sending new, I don't know.

Clearly he has a different value system than you. And I think that's the important thing is, is that you're putting all this work into yourself and you're trying to change your life because it sounds like, again, using your words from our previous conversation, your life was going a very different direction. And had you not woken up and gotten help and continued to work on yourself, and you continue to work on yourself to this day, who knows where you'd be today?

And the fact that you are still finding your way to invest in people who aren't on that path is holding you back from the real growth that you can have. And so, I really want, again, give yourself a couple days to hurt, and you're a human being. But eventually, you really have to keep telling yourself, you have to almost be like, thank you. Thank you, whatever God you preach to,

or pray to, or the universe, or whatever, thank you, universe. Thank you for showing me what I couldn't see on my own. Thank you for helping me come to a decision that I knew I needed to make, but I was having a hard time making. And I think you really need to practice showing gratitude to what happened rather than showing embarrassment.

It's easy to be embarrassed about these things, but you have no reason to be embarrassed. He's gonna do this with anyone. This is, you know, you weren't that, you know. Don't be the person who thinks getting a guy not to cheat on you makes you feel special, because everyone is capable of cheating. Anyone cheats.

It's not a reflection of you, it's a reflection of them. Yeah, I agree. Being grateful for what happened, I think would really help you change your perspective. So after a few days of feeling sad, you'd really gotta pick yourself up and be like, you know what, this could have, honestly, this could have saved you.

I'm not trying to overplay it, but there's a universe where you would have been faithful to him while he goes into prison, and it could have brought you down and affected you in new ways and it could have brought you down and affected you in new ways. You could have potentially not realized who knows how it could have affected your mental health. Meanwhile, you're not making the progress that you could have been making.

This is a real blessing, I think. I agree with you. I do. I mean, I feel hurt right now and and I did feel a little bit embarrassed, but like you said, I didn't cheat on anyone. And it's not, so I don't really have anything to be embarrassed about. You absolutely do not.

And I'm sad it happened this way, but I'm glad this happened to you, because it sounds like this is freeing you up in ways that you weren't going to be free. But now you gotta really let him go. If you're gonna let him go, you gotta cut him off, remove access to him, block him on phones and emails, like get rid of the reminders,

don't hold on to the memories. You don't need to like have keepsakes to like have this relationship be valuable. This relationship will be valuable to you from what you learn from it. And if you learn, hey, listen, even if they tell you they've never cheated, you still gotta be diligent. When people show you with their actions,

you gotta hold them accountable. You can learn that, listen, just because people have given, people gave you grace because you showed with your actions a willingness to change. You can learn that like, listen, just because people have given, people gave you grace because you showed with your actions a willingness to change, you know? So next time you're questioning whether you should show someone grace or not, you gotta ask yourself, are they making the same choices I made to allow people to show me grace?

Instead of making excuses for them to why they're not showing with their actions why they're willing to make those changes. You know what I'm saying? Mm-hmm, yeah. So, you don't need keepsakes, you don't need the memories, you just need to learn something from this, and it sounds like you definitely can.

So, get rid of all the shit that's holding you back, get rid of all the memories, block them, say goodbye to him, and when I say say goodbye to him in your head, you don't actually actually say goodbye. Have a little ceremony with your friends, be done with it, control your thoughts. When you go down that rabbit hole of feeling sorry for yourself, it's only human,

recognize it, but put a stop to it. Alright, I pity myself for 20 minutes, alright, let's think about something else. Let's actually have that gratitude, thank you, universe, I needed to see this for myself. Also, be proud of yourself yourself that you trusted your intuition. I don't like that you had to go through your phone to do it, whatever, but your intuition told you something and you verified it.

So maybe next time when your intuition tells you something, instead of just going through your phone, just trust your intuition. Oh, I could try that, I guess. Yeah, well, you can and you should because you have good intuition. And this is a reminder of that. Yeah, clearly. Okay. Alrighty.

All right, well, again, I'm sorry you're going through this but honestly, I feel better about this call than I did the last one. Well, that's good, I'm glad I made your day. Yeah. Well, it's for your future and I think you're better for it. All right. I agree. All right. Thank you. Thank you for the update. We'd love to

hear from you down the road to see how the life's going for you. I'm really hoping that in a few months when you look back on the situation, you have this, it's a good memory. Yeah, I agree. I hope so too. All right. Well, take care. Thank you. All right. Bye. Bye. Ladies and gentlemen, what are you doing? What do you mean? I make it simple. I'm making the promo. Just keep it simple. Just say, Hey, we're the bra bros. Two guys that talk about Bravo. Ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls, we're the brav Bros. No! Dude, stop with the voice. Just keep it simple. I've seen promos on TV, dude.

This is how you get the fans engaged. This is how you get listeners. We're trying to get listeners here. If we just say, oh, we're two dudes that talk about Bravo, people are going to get tired of it already. We need some oomph. All right, then fine. Let's try to do it with your voice.

Brav Bros. Good job. What a great first update. Now it's time for a written. Yes, our first written update is Taylor from episode 637 with the tagline, found out my boyfriend is having an emotional affair with his cousin. Oh yeah. So she called in and essentially her boyfriend was having, she was flirting via text with

his cousin. But really it was someone- This was the one, Nick, where he was like- No with his cousin. This was the one, Nick, where he was like, she was like, there's only one kind of raw meat I wanna take. Actually, let's play a quick, quick. Let's play a flashback from that call. It's too good not to.

How's it going? Hey, I'm good. I'm Taylor, I'm 22, and I found out that my boyfriend was having an emotional affair with his cousin. Okay, so you already know. Yes. Okay, we're not even wondering. And cousin?

Yeah, so even after I found out, he still was saying that it was his cousin, but then later he clarified that they were raised as cousins and that they're not actually like blood related. What does that mean? Is this like, you know, I grew up with like family friends and we called like them like aunt and uncle, even though they were just family friends? I think that's exactly what it is.

I don't really know the dynamic. I've obviously never met her. She lives in a different state, but it's in his hometown where all of his family lives. So I think that, yeah, just like one of those family friends that you call your cousin, who's not really your cousin. How did you find out? Because it sounds like he was like, hey, I had an emotional affair with my cousin. And did he lead with that? No. So I found out on my own because I had seen in his Snapchat best friends list a girl's name and I asked who it was and he said it was his cousin.

But then the next day I just had this like gut feeling. So I had asked to see his phone. I went into his texts. I went into the recently deleted and I saw her name. And I thought to myself, you know, if this is your cousin, why are you deleting your text with her? So I opened them up and just like immediately I knew. And then I read through all of them and

so there were no secrets. Cousin was the cover. Cousin was the cover. Yeah. So he was like, hey, I used to call her my cousin when we were kids. He clearly doesn't see her that way, but when you call them out, he's like, oh, it's my cousin. Thinking that you would be like, oh, there's just no way he's fucking his cousin. Yeah.

Well, so he kept trying to go with that and I was trying to tell him, I was like, that's worse. If you're saying that this is your cousin, that's worse because that's gross. Fucking weird. If it's your cousin, you're talking to her this way. What was he saying? What was going on? Like, what's the worst of it?

The worst of it, I would say, is when she asked about me and said, you know, like, what about your girlfriend? And he was like, oh yeah, she's around. And she said, define that. And he said, like, we're still actively dating. And she was like, okay, well, you know, I just want to be respectful. Obviously we're flirting and I don't want to overstep any boundaries. And he was like, no, it goes both ways. Like don't even worry about it. We have to have conversations like this. Like they're important. That I thought was the worst, even over like

the sexual and like explicit things that were obviously like inappropriate. What were those? Just like gross things, like they were talking about seafood and stuff and she goes, oh, I only take one kind of raw meat. And he was like, oh Lord, like just, it's just so gross to even think about.

How did he respond to you finding out? So his response was a lot different. There have been a lot of lies in him doing things behind my back throughout the relationship, and usually he's just immediately defensive, even blames me or just doesn't think he's done anything wrong, but as soon as I found out and confronted him,

he immediately was apologetic, remorseful. I could tell that he was really truly disgusted with himself. But then it's like, are you just sorry that you were caught though? Or are you actually sorry that you did it? So how long have you been together? How old is he? He is 22. We are only two days apart.

Okay. So maybe, you know, it doesn't sound like he's just ready to be in a relationship. He likes having a girlfriend, but doesn't want to be a boyfriend. Yeah. Yes, can people get through this? Sure, but they really have to be committed to it. Therapy, individual therapy, couples therapy. And I honestly, just as a 22 year old guy

who it sounds like he just kind of wants to like fuck around and date and that honestly like at this day and age is more common than being a committed like are you trying to get married in a year or two? No. Okay. How long you been dating them? Two years. Okay. I just think while people can get through this I just feel like maybe you both as individuals and this relationship might not be ready for the type of work that would be required to make this work.

Right. You know? Yeah. And it sounds like he just has some general growing up to do. I agree. And you might just be better off letting him grow up on his own and revisiting this relationship in the future. So basically, we encouraged her to send a breakup text over the call with her.

So she sent the text because we were like, he wants a girlfriend but is not ready to be a boyfriend. Because him flirting with his cousin was like insulting. She was dating a guy who was flirting with his cousin. Yes. Okay, yeah. So she writes in and she says, so we did break up and I went completely no contact for a while which was good. But then I decided we could still be friends or something and parentheses dumb. I know so we started talking again on a drunken night I had him pick me up and we went back to my house and hooked up after we hooked up

He told me he had been hooking up with other people which obviously should have been told to me beforehand Probably so the next morning I kicked him out But we would still talk here and there and he would come over and spend the night But we never hooked up again. He would come over and spend the night, but they would never hook up girl You're just egging it on yeah, so she says but one morning while he left to get me Starbucks I knew something was up because whenever he did nice things for me It was because he felt guilty So I went through his iPad and saw he was talking to like 20 different women and had clearly been hooking up with a few of them, which was fine because we were broken up and

not involved, but he had been telling me he was so distraught over us breaking up and that he was doing everything he could to be a better man. Long story short, she said, so I cut him off again and since then there has been minimal contact. He sent my dad coffee because his hometown is where my dad's favorite coffee is from and he tries to text my mom and my sister every once in a while as an attempt to stay in their good graces.

I do also have plans to meet up with him for lunch to catch up sometime. Stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop. This reminds me of that TikTok song, like am I the problem, am I the problem? I mean, yeah, like, it's kinda your fault at this point. You know, you're stringing him along,

you like the fact that he is pining for your attention, you like the fact that he's earning it, oh, he's proving, he wants to be a better man for you. How old is this guy, by the way? Not sure. You know, like, why is he spending the night if he's not your boyfriend? When she called in, he was 22, I believe.

Okay. And that was 9-11, September, so. This is a toxic relationship, and she's part of the problem, you know? She's rewarding it with time. Did you say he was talking to 20 other people? Who knows? Why are you going through his phone?

He's not your boyfriend just because he's sleeping over. No, iPad! Why does he have an iPad at your home? Either way, I don't know. It's all, she's part of the problem. Taylor, come on, you're better than this. You're loving the drama, you're doing it for the drama, you're being a little manipulative,

you're being controlling. If you wanna date him and have him work on himself while dating him, you have the right to do that, you can do that, but give him the security of knowing that you wanna be with him. If you think you are entitled to go through his iPad, which is never a good thing, but if you do think you are, you should at least be his girlfriend.

And if you don't think he's in a position to be your boyfriend, then you shouldn't be having him over sleepovers. And having, you know, he shouldn't be like, you shouldn't be like dangling a carrot. That's not how he works on himself. That's not working on yourself, himself. That is him making you feel good

about how much he is willing to do for you. And clearly he's not ready. I'm not condoning his behavior, and I'm not saying he's not doing anything wrong either, but I don't have access to him, and he's not writing in for notes and advice, and my advice to you is stop using him for validation, and you love that he's still trying to be with you,

even if you know he's full of shit. You love the fact. And that's, I was literally talking about this last night with JoJo, JoJo came over, I was talking about our dating life, and listen, we've all done that. We've all, we all have at least one. Some of us, we're mature enough to have one. You know, some of us never grow up.

But we always like having that one person that we, quote unquote, can't get over, but what would really keep, well, why we keep them around is because whether they keep breaking our hearts up. But we always like having that one person that we quote unquote can't get over, but what we really keep, why we keep them around is because whether they keep breaking our hearts or not, they keep coming back and they keep making that fix of validation. Oh, you came back, you couldn't get over me. You tried to date someone else. Yeah, that hurt, but oh, you came back to me. Oh, you realized I was better. It's that whole fucking toxic validation and she's doing some version of that and it's

And she's the problem in this scenario. It's the orbit you got a car orbiting so I Have no notes for him because I have so many notes for you and I don't really care what he is doing and with who he has the right to and And you and you kind of set him up for these false promises When you are getting it and when you're dangling this carrot and yeah, could he be more upfront or more honest but like you're, it's all a mess. Cut him off. Stop hanging out with him. You shouldn't be friends with him. Yeah, this whole like, what have you done for me lately? And I don't know,

it's icky. So my advice is to cut him off, say goodbye to him. He's not your friend, he's not your boyfriend. He is a long way away from clearly being the person that you wanna date, and good on you for knowing that. Know your self worth, but knowing your self worth isn't like then keeping him around and orbiting him, as the kids are saying, to still have that power over him. Because that's what she, she likes having power over him.

She likes telling him he's doing wrong or he's fucking up. And she likes it when he apologizes, you know, and it makes her feel good. So stop it. Thank you for the update. All right, our next caller. So our next caller is Amanda.

She originally called in because she caught her ex cheating on her through her security camera and she was struggling with getting over him. So essentially what happened was they were dating for three months. He was her Prince Charming and then she kind of had a gut feeling to check her security camera when she was gone. She checked the camera and saw a woman she's never met in her house talking to her dog. She called her boyfriend or situationship and was like, Hey, who is she? He basically was like, it's just a friend. She needs help with an assignment. She obviously knew that wasn't true. So she ended it. But then she called us just saying like, Hey, how do I get over my Prince charming? And we gave her the advice of until you stop lying to yourself, you can't expect someone to stop lying to you. So she needed to like respect the goals that she had been dating.

What was the lie that she was telling herself? That he still might like her or that he was a good guy that just did a mistake of cheating on her. Ah, okay. Because in her eyes, he was a Prince Charming. So essentially you were like stop romanticizing the past and see it for what it is. All right, let's get an update. Welcome back, Amanda.

Hi, how are you? I'm so good. How are you? I'm doing much better All right, let's get an update. Welcome back, Amanda. Hi, how are you? I'm so good, how are you? I'm doing much better. Well, that's good to hear. Yeah, because when you first called in, you had caught your lover, was he your boyfriend at the time? Your Prince Charming?

My boyfriend at the time, yeah. On the nanny cam, it was like a security cam on your door. Yes, it was an outdoor security camera. And it sounded like you were struggling despite seeing that, accepting what he did and moving on. Correct, I was for some reason having difficulty letting go of that relationship, even though I knew it was doomed from that point on.

Yeah, yeah. Let's play a quick clip from the original episode to bring our audience up to speed. My name is Amanda, I am 33. I caught my ex cheating through a security camera and I'm having trouble moving on. Okay, how long you guys been dating for? It was a total of three months.

Okay, so not very long. Why are you having such a hard time moving on with someone that within the first couple months of you guys dating, cheated are you having such a hard time moving on with someone that within the first couple months of you guys dating, cheated on you? I think maybe I just, I saw potential in the beginning. He was very charming, planned date, full nine yards, like opening up doors, brought me random flowers, like, and then obviously that changed over time. What do you mean that changed over time?

So even his, like before we even got to the cheating, did his behavior start to dwindle? say that changed over time. What do you mean that changed over time? Before we even got to the cheating, did his behavior start to dwindle? It was kind of confusing because in the beginning, he was doing all those things and then I think once he got comfortable, he just got more laxed with it. In the three months that you were dating, how long before he went from Prince Charming sweeping you off your feet, saying and doing all the right things to all of a sudden you start feeling the sense that he got comfortable with knowing that you weren't going anywhere or that you were his girlfriend and that his behavior started becoming less and less Mr.

Prince Charming? Like how much time into this relationship? Like less than a month. Less than a month, okay. And when you started noticing those changes in behavior, what if anything did you say or do? I don't think I said or did anything. I think I was just waiting to see if maybe, you know,

he was figuring it out or maybe he just got comfortable. I'm not really sure. I think that I want to, you know, be loved how I love people and I always try to see the good in people instead of seeing for what they truly are and what they're showing me. Yeah, but if you really want to love people how you give love, that partly is holding people accountable for how they treat you. That's a big part that you're missing. You're kind of living in this delusion of, let's just pretend the obvious isn't happening and ignore it.

And then that causes you to lie to yourself about your true feelings and you'll push down any type of gut check or voices in your head that say, hey, listen, this isn't a good, healthy situation for you, and you just keep ignoring that and keep ignoring that, and you've gotten so good, my guess, at ignoring your gut, so to speak, your body. Your body's telling you one thing, and you're telling yourself another. I think you do the thing that a lot of people do,

which is you say that you want one thing in a relationship. Hey I want someone who loves the same way I love. I want someone who's willing to treat me the way I'm willing to treat them. But your actions say very much differently and you're doing the thing that a lot of people do in relationships. I've done. People all do it. Where you find someone that elicits some sort of reaction. You find them attractive. You think their job is really admirable or cool or exciting. But you're looking for someone that excites you.

And then after you find someone who excites you, you start trying to figure out if they have the qualities that you say you want in a relationship. Okay, so now that we know what happened in your original call, where are we now? Oh, I'm doing so much better now. I actually decided to start therapy to help me kind of process everything that happened

because it was difficult for me because I didn't understand myself in a sense that why I couldn't just let this go because obviously he did something really bad and it should have been an immediate like I never want to see this person again. What have you learned in therapy about yourself? I've learned that a lot of it stems from childhood trauma and I like the unpredictability of people that I'm in relationships with and that that's what I cling to. And my therapist basically told me that I need to work on loving myself more and setting up boundaries prior and when I

see red flags to immediately leave. Okay. Or at least ask questions. Yes. Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. And then- Have you been dating? I've recently downloaded the online dating apps. I've had difficulty dating through the apps and I tend to delete it a week later

and I've tried through mutual friends and it doesn't seem like any of that works. I don't know if it's just a me thing or... I think it's a patience thing. Yes. Yeah. I commend you for downloading the apps and deleting them after a week if you're like, eh, because I do think going on the apps, you kind of have to do it for a period of time. There's always this burnout that, you know,

dating apps can be definitely mind fucks, and you know, emotional torture. But they are a way to meet people. But like, coming and going from those, I actually think that's pretty good. You always have to get back out there. But listen, going on the apps a couple times, and then going to a couple friends being like, hey, like I'd love for you to introduce me to someone,

and then being like, I don't really know anyone. You know, like, you know, you have to kind of put it out there that you're open and like three years later they might be like, hey, I've got someone for you. It's not gonna happen overnight. So I think the big thing is, dating isn't something you do over the course of like three weeks.

It's like, it's just something you kind of just have to be open to and let the rest take care of itself. Yes, it was definitely hard to put myself back out there just because the trauma from what happened and getting into something like that again was scary. But I also didn't like hold myself back. Hold yourself back from what? From potentially like meeting somebody. Yeah, well, that's good. Yeah, I mean, you got to get back out there, but you also just have to be patient. You know, we are definitely in an instant gratification type of world. So I'm ready to date.

You know, we were like, I hope I meet him by next Friday. It's like, okay. Yeah. Unfortunately it doesn't happen that way. Yeah. It's a, there's a lot to be said about like Appreciating being single, you know not yes like there are benefits to it there are advantages to it and I know you can get sick of it and that can be frustrating but

You are you are trying like when maybe you know what people should start doing when they're getting sick of being single when they tell Themselves they're dating they should it's like I'm not dating. I'm trying to never be single again ever Yeah, like absolutely, you know at some point that might sound good too, but like never again ever I'm trying to give up all the freedom that being single gives me forever. That is another way of looking at it. So anytime you're tired of being single, just remember you can't do whatever the fuck you want when you're in a relationship.

That's true. Listen, I love being in a relationship. I love making sacrifices with people I love. I love being in a relationship, but there are things I don't get to do anymore. Yeah, being single definitely has its perks. I think I was a little bit frustrated because when I met my ex, I was in a really good spot loving being single and not wanting to rush into anything and then that all kind of got

ruined. Well, you just got to go back. Nothing really changed other than, yeah, you met someone who really disappointed you. But that didn't change how much you enjoyed being single. And you just have to remind yourself like, yeah, listen, like he sucked, but it is a reminder that as much as you might enjoy

being single, that you will enjoy being in a relationship when you find the right person. It allows you to not get complacent with being single or not accept being single. You never want to end up being like, well, I don't care. I don't want to find anyone ever. I'm just going to be single forever.

Yeah, no. So I think you're in a good spot. I feel so much better than- Patience, patience. Yes, I try my best. And I think I kind of got set back a little bit too, because I found out like, I want to say like a month ago,

he married his ex and that was kind of like a weird. But not the girl you caught him with. No, not the girl I caught him with. Well, it's so crazy about that. I hear that and I'm like, oh, well, that sucks for him. And you're like fucked up about it. It does, it kind of like, it messed with my head

for a little bit. Why? Cause I was just like, because it kind of felt like everything that happened and everything he did to me, like didn't matter. He just was so easily. What do you mean did to you? What do you mean did to you? Like, so like, you know, cheating on me, bringing another girl to my house,

doing all those things. And then he easily jumped in to marrying his ex. Like to me, it just felt like, was, am I delusional? Like, did any of that stuff happen or? Why would that make you delusional? I don't understand. I think it's just the fact that he was able to jump into something else so quickly after I broke up with him.

As opposed to what? Crying, screaming, begging for you back? In the beginning I wanted that, but now I want, I don't want that at all. So when you, cause like when you, when you're like, oh he married his ex. I don't know why him and his ex broke up Did he break up with her? He told me yes that he broke up with her. Okay, probably believable Yeah, yeah, I would have been my guess and He broke out with her probably is like I thought I could do better

Then he went out and dated he met you had a pretty good time Probably wasn't and he probably you know you were maybe even a bitter rebound. I don't fucking know But clearly he also from a character standpoint has no problem lying or cheating or being manipulative got caught Yeah, got called out the girl He brought over obviously wasn't a solution and then at some point he felt like oh fuck me dating and single This is messy and hard. You know what? I'm just gonna go fucking back to my ex It's just you know, he basically got lazy and impatient. I never thought about it like that I don't know why people don't think about that, you know, cuz that is what happened. Yeah, you know

Yeah, I don't know why I didn't think about it like in that sense, but that actually makes a lot of sense So I'm kind of like, okay And I don't know why I didn't think about it like in that sense, but that actually makes a lot of sense. So I'm kind of like, okay, well, talks for them. And she was just so happy to have him back. And then the fact that they got married so fast, why, why so fast? Why, you know, why are they rushing into this? How long was this engagement?

Do you even, like, how long could it have been? You weren't dating him that long ago. No, so two weeks after I broke up with him, he was back with her. And when did you first call? Like how long, six months ago? That was in January. Was it January?

January, fuck, that's two months ago. He's already married? Yes. Married, okay, so like yeah, they were like, let's, she was like, let's get married so you can't break up with me. That's what it sounds like, because's like you she was like let's get married so you can't break up with me That's what it sounds like because from what I knew prior they were engaged Prior to him breaking up with her. Yeah, I mean like, you know, I don't like this like that

I you know, I don't understand how this makes you dilulu. I don't know I think I just kind of got into my own head because he so quickly Was able to move on and I was stuck in this like. Getting back with your ex isn't moving on. I mean, I guess moving on from you, but you, you know, he clearly isn't moving on. He's going backwards. Like whatever, whatever happened with you made him think, Oh, you know what, I'm just going to go back to what I was doing.

Yeah. Yeah. You got it. You just can't let it fuck with you. I don doing. Yeah. Yeah. You got it. You just can't let it fuck with you. Um, I don't. Yeah. You may. Eventually I got just, I don't want to say it, but I realized that clearly whatever problems he has now that's her problem and no longer mine. That is true too. Yeah. Um, and it says nothing about you. I mean, you got excited about someone who presented himself in a way that turned out not to be true. That happens every

day, you know. So don't beat yourself up. It's, you know. And what people do after they date you, who cares? It doesn't say anything, you know. Like, you don't have to find meaning in everything that happens. It's something you experienced. It's just gonna end up being a memory. It's not that it has meaning. Like, why do you need some guy you dated for a few months, why does it have to have meaning? Yeah, I don't know.

When you say it like that, I don't know, it just sounds kinda like, I don't wanna say dumb, but like, why does it matter? It wasn't even that long. So it's like- Well, listen, again, I'm just being able to believe that everything you experience is something to learn from. Oh, absolutely.

So if you see it that way, then great. It's not meaning. It's like, what did it all mean? Was it all worth it? I mean, well, if you learn something it is, and if not, then, you know, but we're so, we don't want to learn anything right away we just want it to work out so sounds like you're doing

great it's just you know try to get out of your head I love that you're in therapy keep working on that stuff on that stuff but him getting married to his ex in two months that would make me feel great if I were in your shoes yeah so you know I'm a year from now he might wake up be like what did I do feel great if I were in your shoes. Yeah. So, you know, I'm a year from now, he might wake up and be like, what did I do? Oh, fuck. Yeah, that's true. That's, that's a reactive decision.

That's what it looked like. Like, oh shit, like I can't be alone. Sorry. I can't be alone. You can swear. I need somebody. I need somebody to cling to. So I wouldn't let that affect your self-worth. That's for sure. No, I definitely, towards the end, I definitely learned a big lesson and it's

definitely helped me move forward and, you know, be more cautious, but try to still like remain open. Yeah. Listen, unfortunately people will be disappointing, you know, it just allows, you know, to take things slow and ask questions. You know, chances are this won't be the last person who disappoints you. Yeah. But unfortunately, but. But you'll live and you know, you're going to disappoint and you might disappoint someone yourself, you know? Yeah, absolutely.

It's all just kind of messy until you find that person. We get there, just the patience part that's hard, but I mean in the end it'll be worth waiting for. So it took me much longer than I thought, but yeah, I'm more thrilled now. But I was also like pretty picky and pretty stubborn, you know? I am too. Yeah, so you have to account for that. That matters. All right, well thank you very much for the update? I am too. Yeah. So you have to account for that. That matters. All right. Well, thank you very much for the update. I appreciate it. Thank you. I appreciate it. Take care. Bye. Bye. Ladies and gentlemen, what are you doing? What do you mean?

I make it simple. I'm making the promo. Just keep it simple. Just say hey, we're the bra bro's two guys to talk about Bravo Ladies and gentlemen boys and girls. We're the bra bro's no Dude, stop with the voice. Just keep it simple. I've seen promos on TV, dude This is how you get the fans and engage. This is how you get listeners We're trying to get listeners here if we just say oh, we're two dudes that talk about Bravo people get tired of it Already, we need some umph. All right, then fine. Let's try to do it with your voice Rob bros. Good job All right, do we have another written we do so this is Chelsea she originally called in an episode 621

With the tagline my friend is cheating on her boyfriend And I don't know if I can can continue to be friends with her. Okay, then she wrote in for a classic episode 659 and essentially said that she had sent her message of saying, I can't support you in these actions. She was left on read, but then she made new friends that had healthier dynamics. Yeah, I remember. And then essentially she made the decision like this was, it was a friend breakup and she was okay with it.

Do we remember Chelsea? She was from episode 621 and her friend was cheating on her boyfriend, and she wasn't sure if she could continue to be friends with this person. Mmm. Yeah. Yeah. And so we encouraged her to have a conversation with her friend, hold her accountable, and just say, I do not support these decisions you're making. So, I was finally able to talk to her, but it ended up being through text message. She called me out on being distant with her lately, which I have, and I finally confronted

her about it and set my boundaries with her in the way you guys advised me to. She didn't take it well as expected. Basically, this is what she told me. And then she says, I copied it from Snapchat because this is the only way that she messages me now because she changed the settings to delete immediately after viewing so her boyfriend doesn't see what she's talking about when he goes through her phone. Such a messy situation. So she said, I feel really hurt and betrayed by you pushing me away due to something I'm dealing with.

I thought we were better friends than that. I said, I understand why you feel hurt and I'm sorry for that. It's just difficult for me to support your behavior and I do not wanna be an accomplice to it. I know you're better than the decisions you're making right now and it breaks my heart that you're going through this situation. I hope things change for you and again,

I cannot support your decisions and it's too much for me to be around while you're making them. I would love our friendship to take off but at this time I need to distance myself and I hope you can understand that. Just know I'm not completely turning my back on you. If you need anything, I'm here for you. After that, she left me on read and didn't respond. I'm sure she's upset

with me, but this was the right decision. After doing some reflecting and hanging out with a new friend group that is a lot more healthy and supportive, I've come to realize she wasn't the greatest friend to me and has had a lot of toxic tendencies. I don't hate her and I truly do want the best for her, but ending this friendship is the right thing to do. Amazing. Love. So slow. Yeah.

That is being a friend, you know? And sounds like maybe she's realizing who that friend was. But like, that, what a response. I can't believe you're doing this to me while I'm going through something. No, you're not going through something. You're choosing this. She's acting like it's happening to her.

Like she's the victim. Right, right. Like it's passive. What? Yeah. You are fucking another guy while having a boyfriend and actively going out of your way to continue to hide it. And even when you get called out for it. because like, listen, I think some people, like, I don't think they black out while they're cheating and don't realize what they're doing, but

we all can justify our actions and get caught up in things. Things can snowball and we can kind of get out of control. And sometimes it takes a friend to go, what are you doing? And have you go, oh my, yeah, what am I doing? And clearly this friend didn't say that. Like, truly thought this was happening to her and she was stuck in a situation, you know, but. She also says she's going through a relationship

and a friendship breakup right now. Ugh. That's tough. But I'm so glad about this new friend group. Yeah. Yeah, that's amazing. Yeah, because it can really give you new hope when you meet people and there's things

that you might not have even been able to articulate or define as missing from previous relationships, but then when they're present, it's so exciting and you're like, I do deserve this. But also, it wouldn't shock me to find out that it's not a coincidence that she's going through a friend breakup and a relationship breakup at the same time because if she is

finally like holding people accountable for things that they aren't doing and letting people off the hook and looking the other way it wouldn't shock me if she's applying that same energy to her boyfriend and maybe this is just her cleaning house so to speak, and doing some much needed spring cleaning on her circle of influence. I hope so. Yeah. Yeah.

So she writes in and she says, "'Hello, so my friend Brie,' the one who was cheating on her boyfriend, she eventually, I guess, started to understand my perspective and she reached out to tell me happy birthday and even gave me the name of her tattoo artist when I asked her. For a couple months It seemed like we were okay, even though I put a lot of distance on our friendship

She had messaged me on Snapchat little things here and there and in December She randomly sent me a snap on Snapchat and it was a black screen with the text on it saying Hey, I just wanted you to know that me and Tom broke up and now I'm working on my relationship with Kai In parentheses, she says Tom was the now I'm working on my relationship with Kai. In parentheses, she says Tom was the guy she was cheating on, Kai with, that was her coach in high school, and Kai is the boyfriend.

So now she's dating the guy that she was cheating on, that she was cheating with. She was cheating on her former coach in high school? So Tom was the guy she was cheating on Kai with, and Kai was the one, was her former coach. Oh my God. Yeah. So she was dating her coach. Oh my God. Yeah. So she was dating her coach.

Yes, yeah. So then she goes on to say, I guess she thought her telling me this was her way of thinking we could hang out again and that she's making better decisions. But to me, it felt like nothing had changed. She sent that message on Snapchat. So obviously her boyfriend Kai still doesn't know.

And then essentially her friend responded or said, well, I told you I made changes to my life and you still seem to keep me out of your life Even after I got you connected with my artists. So like which is it? So then her friend started being like you support me or you don't sure remember Yeah, she her friend clearly still doesn't get it. It's got it's got very Tom Standoval written all over it You know kind of like not really it's not registering what she actually did. And just because she moved on from her adult world, you know.

She closes it off saying, it made me feel really bad because again, I've never been through a friendship breakup before, but I know that this is the right decision and sometimes people grow up and grow apart. Yeah, she doesn't owe this friend anything. If she were to do anything, she could say, hey listen, we can get together,

but here's where I stand and why. You're still not doing the right thing. You're still lying to your partner. You're still being dishonest. I think good for you for stopping the affair, but why did it stop? Did it stop because you knew you were doing the wrong thing? And what's stopping you from doing it in the future? But you're still making poor choices. She doesn't have to do that. I think it's similar to the first written that if she wants to break off by contact, to just break it off. Yeah, just break it off.

There's lots of tattoo artists out there, for sure. All right, well thank you for the update. I think if nothing else, like she said, this reaffirms her decision. And she hasn't really grown. Things have changed. Her friend is confusing change with growth and change doesn't always mean growth,

it just means change. Okay, well, let's get to our final update. Our third caller is also a caller from January, episode 705. Her tagline was, my mom won't accept that I left the Mormon religion. So she called in and said that she was born and raised in the Mormon bubble of Utah She separated herself from the church in 2020 and moved in with her boyfriend and got tattoos

And essentially had an ignorance is bliss relationship with her parents then come Christmas her mom gave her a letter that was basically like I Want you to do scriptures with us on Zoom twice a month. And then we gave her the advice to try to set that balance or set the boundary of, hey, I'm an adult, I left the church, I respect that that's your religion, but for myself, I need to respect that I don't want to be a part of the church. And then we also gave her the advice to try to empathize with her mom, knowing that her mom is also facing the pressure of the religion and the shame and the guilt of not having her children stay

in the religion. Yeah, it's really about in those situations with mom and dad, and it didn't seem like it was all that toxic. It was just more you have to like, you got to play the long game because it's not like mom and dad in these situations never just go, oh yeah, sure, no problem. It's a struggle for them. So you have to stand your ground and you have to stay consistent

and you have to keep leading with love and keep, you know, but saying, I love you but no, I love you but no, I love you but no, I love you but no, I love you but no, I love you but no. And eventually they'll just be like, all right, she's just not gonna do it anymore. But parents are used to getting their way with their kids.

I'm excited for this update. Welcome back, Jordan. Hi, how's it going, Nick? but parents are used to getting their way with their kids. I'm excited for this update. Welcome back, Jordan. Hi, how's it going, Nick? Good, how are you? I'm doing great, I'm excited to talk to you again. I'm excited to hear this update. You first called in because you were having issues

with mom and dad. Super religious, came from the Mormon church. You just decided that wasn't for you, not to your liking. You chose a different path, mom was struggling, and kind of, as some moms do, kind of manipulating her way into trying to bring you back by calling it like a family event, you know? Which made you a little uncomfy,

and I think I suggested to you maybe even write a letter or whatever. Let's actually play a quick clip from our original call to bring our audience up to speed. My name is Jordan, and I am 30 years old. Nice to meet you, Jordan. How can we help? So I need your help because my mom won't accept that I no longer want to be a part of the Mormon religion.

Okay. All right. Is this a recent decision you've made for yourself? So kind of some background on the story. I was born and raised in Utah, very much grew up in like the Mormon bubble. And then back in 2020, I kind of started separating myself from the church. And then throughout that year, I kind of had my eyes open to some things. I moved in with my boyfriend at the time, which is very against the church's religion. And like I had gotten some tattoos and I had stopped going to church. So basically I felt like I was like kind of living this secret life,

because I wasn't saying anything to my parents. You had a one way ticket to hell as far as. Literally, I was like, my parents are no longer gonna love me, this is awesome. And so I kind of felt like I was living this like secret life. I started going to therapy. And one thing we really like talked about in therapy was like, I was never good at like expressing my emotions. Because growing up in

the church, you're kind of expected to be perfect. Yeah, it wasn't at the located bring up anything. So I basically come to came to the conclusion that I wanted to write a letter to my parents and just kind of like, put it all out on the board like this is how I'm living my life. Take it or leave it basically and I also wanted to do that because I knew I could come off as like defensive anytime like I did have any conversations with my parents so I just wanted to like open a line of communication and be like, I wanna have a relationship with you. This is how I'm living my life. I hope like you'll accept it and you'll still love me. And we can like.

So the tone wasn't necessarily like, fuck you. This is who I am. Okay, it was like, I love you. I care about you. I wanna be in your life, but these are my choices I'm going to make. And it's not a matter of if, but this is what I'm doing. And it's just a question is, are you still going to respect

and love me as your daughter and we can have a relationship even though I don't necessarily make choices that you guys agree with? Yes, so I thought all was well. And then here we are at Christmas a couple weeks ago. I went home for Christmas and we're all opening presents. Everything's great. I have one older sister who's married who is still very active in the religion.

And we get through presents and my mom goes, I have one more present for you guys. And we were like, okay. She gives us the present and we each got a letter from her, which is very not like her. She's not one to write letters. So I like him reading the letter and it was very nice at the beginning. Like, I'm so glad you came home for Christmas, yada, yada, yada. And then the second part of the letter,

she starts like burying her testimony. Sharing shame and judgment. Yeah. I'm so disappointed. My heart's make, it makes me so sad that you're. Yeah. Yeah. And she was like, it makes me so sad that you're. Yeah. Yeah.

And she was like, I've made it a goal for 2020 for our family to study the scriptures together this year. And so I want you to be a part of that. And we're gonna, twice a month, we're gonna get on Zoom and we're gonna study the scriptures together. And literally I did not say anything. I was just like, in my like whole demeanor changed.

Like my sister was like, oh, I could tell you were mad. And cause in that moment I was like. Yeah, this is all about you. It's manipulative. Yeah. And I'm like, that can be your goal. Like that's awesome. But like I've made it clear that like,

I don't want to be part of it. How did you respond? And I, I just didn't say anything. Yeah. She's probably feeling that shame and judgment that you're feeling from her. She's feeling it from her church and her peers. So that's an opportunity for you to have empathy for your mom and how we help with the anger that you're maybe feeling towards your mom.

It's just like, listen, all you can do is understand where she's coming from. And I have found just in life, like one of my biggest, like, I think skills that has helped me navigate life and adulthood and interpersonal relationships. Is it just like, you can, again, people often confuse empathizing with someone with agreeing with them. Empathizing is just like understanding potentially why they think the way they do.

So was my advice helpful and where are we now? Yes, okay, so your advice was really helpful. I actually, I didn't want to write a letter because like before, like she had wrote a letter, I had wrote a letter. Sure. And the letters were just, we needed to have a real conversation.

So I actually went home, it was like two or three weekends ago and we were sitting down for family dinner on Sunday and my sister ended up not being able to join us and so it was just going to be me and the parents. So I was like, all right, this is my moment. So we were just eating dinner and we got to the end of it and I was just like, hey, can we have a little conversation about this scripture study goal that you set for our family? And my parents were like, yeah, what? What do you want to talk about? And I was just like, well, you could probably tell when I

opened your letter up at Christmas and opened up your present, I wasn't super stoked on the challenge that you had set for our family. And I was like, honestly, I was just a little surprised that you had asked that we would read that together just based off of my letter that I had wrote you a couple years ago. And I was like, honestly,

I just kind of felt like a little disrespected. And pretty much from there, my dad was pretty quiet the whole conversation, my mom, I like, and I knew going in, I was gonna trigger her pretty hard, but I was like, that's her journey to work through that trigger. But I was like, she was like, well, why'd you feel disrespected?

And I just tried to explain that like, when I had confronted them about my beliefs, like a couple of years before, I thought I had made it like very obvious that like I didn't want to be a part of it and being asked to like read the scriptures felt like it was breaking like a boundary, like an expectation that I had like set between them. And my mom's like immediate response was like, well, if you reread my letter, I invited you to read the scriptures. I didn't tell you you had to.

And I was like, OK, that's fair. I was like, but it felt like it wasn't an invitation. It felt like this is what we're doing as a family. And she's like, no, I invited you. And I was like, OK, that's fair. I was like, OK. And so basically, we kind of like went back and forth for a second. And they just kept like their excuse was just like, Well, we love the gospel. And so we're always going to want to share it with you. And we want to

share with what we love. And we always want you to like, we're always going to want you to come back to the gospel. And so obviously, I'm going to keep sharing it with you. And I was like, I, I just kept trying to reiterate of like, I respect you, I respect your beliefs, I believe there's a world where like, we can both have separate beliefs, and we can still like, cohabitate together. And I just kept trying to say, like, I want to have a relationship with you, but I want it to be outside of the religion. And like, I just want to feel like, love and respected by you you and I want us to be able to like, basically like form a new relationship because all we talk about now is the church basically. And.

Did you point that out to mom? Yes, I tried and she just kept going back to like, well we love it and we know how happy it makes us and we know how happy it can make you and. Well, okay, the first two things, respect mom and dad, it makes you happy, I don't wanna come in between that. Knowing that it will make me happy, that's where the disrespect comes in.

I'm not a 12 year old girl anymore. I say this with love, but you don't know everything that's best for me right now. Like you're an adult, you've outgrown needing your mom and dad as you should. So they don't in fact always know what's best for you now. You know? And to suggest that, you know, is a bit,

you know, disrespectful. Yeah. And what's funny that you say that because I did kind of go into, I was like, I made the comment about like how I was like, I'm 30 years old and like, I love you as my parents, but like, I don't need to be parented the way that you parented me when I was 12.

And my mom was like, well, what does that mean? And I was like, I still feel like you're trying to like, like one of the examples I gave is like, she had made a comment to my sister a couple of weekends like before that like, I needed to make new friends because my friends aren't in the church, which means in her mind. They're not good people. And I was like that hurt my just one example of like that dynamic. And what's funny is like my mom's response to that was like, well, what I'm hearing is you don't want us

in your life anymore. And I was like, That sounds like a threat. That's not what, I know. Like she was like defensive and I was like, no, it's not that. I was like, I just want a relationship. I was like, I honestly, I want to feel loved by you and I want to feel supported by you.

And I want to feel not judged by you. And her response to that was, well, I don't feel supported by you. And I was like, okay. I was like, okay, mom, I was like, how can I make you feel supported by me? mom, I was like, how can I make you feel supported by me? And she went off about how, so she's like worked our whole lives. She's always had like a full time job. And she's always like you and your sister, you always like, you've never supported me in like having a job. And you always just say, I work too much, but I've had to support this family and just kind of like went off. And my response to that was like, I'm sorry that I like made you feel that way. It wasn't, I'm not like judging you for working. Like the only time I've ever really like maybe forced, not forced my opinion, but said my

opinion on like her job was when like, we'll all be eating dinner together as a family and she'll like leave to go work or like, so I've just said like, I just feel like of our relationships like haven't been able to grow because there's always an excuse of like, well, I leave to go work or like, so I've just said, like, I just feel like of our relationships, like, haven't been able to grow because there's always an excuse of like, well, I need to go work, which like, my dad's always had a full-time job and he's been able to like form a relationship with us. So I just don't feel like that's like a valid excuse and like no job, you should have to work. So she actually works for the church. So like her life is like literally church. And so like the fact that like we're having Sunday dinner together as a family and she has to leave to go do her job for a church who says you shouldn't work on Sundays, just like doesn't really make sense. But anyway,

so then she kind of went off, which like it just shows our family just doesn't have conversations because I could tell there were like a lot of things that like she's been holding in a lot. So once she like got through everything she needed to say, I kind of just brought it back and I used your advice of like shower her with love and like thank her for all the things that like she's taught you because me and my mom, we do have very similar brains and like very similar work ethics. And so I kind of just went into like thanking her for that and just like recognizing like I understand her brain. I like really do understand a lot of like the black and white thinking, especially when it comes to religion. And I can like see how it's easy for our brains to like do the black and white and do the checklist and all of that kind of stuff. So I just kind of like try to like relate on her that way. And I just like kept

trying to make the point of like, like in my head, really, the conversation wasn't even about like, the church, like in my head, the intention of the conversation was like, I want to have a relationship with my parents. And I want like you to have your beliefs and I respect your beliefs. And I want you to respect my beliefs. I feel like their maybe thoughts of the intention of that conversation was like me trying to be like, I'm not coming back to church. So like, because eventually like they just kept going back to like, we like, yeah, they just kept going back to like the church thing. And there was like one point where they were like, like when I was talking about like, being 30 and they were like, they threw in the whole like, well, do you even want to get married? And I was like, they're like, you're not doing anything to work towards

getting married. And I was like, I, I've been going to a lot of therapy, I've been like really trying to work on myself, like, because like, I went through a really hard breakup and stuff. So just like their brains, like, and I know they're thinking that because like, if I was going to church, like I probably would have found someone like, you know, like I just, I know where their brains are going. So like, I feel like they couldn't, they couldn't necessarily get off the topic of the church. So eventually, like, I just like kind of laid it out. And I was just like, going forward, it's not helpful for our relationship for you to like, invite me to read the scriptures or to send talks or whatever. And I was like,

that's not helpful. I just had to like, Yeah. Spell it out. It makes me feel like you aren't hearing me. Don't take me seriously. Aren't disrespecting my wishes. And it pushes, it does push me away. And I very much want to, you know, I, and you can say, yeah, I think it's okay to say it. I respect that the church is very important to you. It's not important to me and I know that's hard to hear,

but what is important to me is that I have a relationship with you and I'd love to have a relationship with you that just doesn't include church. Yeah, and that's just what I kept trying to say and I just kept trying to like reiterate like I recognize that like their relationships with their parents were very like not emotional like so I just kept trying to like have empathy with them and just be like I understand that you didn't really learn how to like have emotional relationships with your children but like

that's a big reason like me and my sister have like been going to therapy and been like trying to like mend these relationships with you because like, we want to have a relationship with you and we want to have a relationship like with our kids. So like going forward, like, how can we do that? And like one of, like, I've made this suggestion of like, I'm still fine to like get together as a family, like let's read a different book maybe. Like, let's do something else.

Play Monopoly. My mom was just kind of like, yeah, yeah, literally. I'm like, can we just like learn how to just be around each other, you know? And so my mom was like, well, since I suggested the scriptures, you need to come up with something else. And I was like, okay, I can come up with stuff. I was like, okay, since I suggested the scriptures, you need to come up with something else. And I was like, okay, I can come up.

Okay. I can do that. Listen, your mom is clearly like acting out, you know, this is, you know, but you did this into yeah, but yeah, but you know, um, in the future, you know, and just a small note, and I get like, I would try to avoid bringing up the accusation of disrespect as early as you did. Because then the conversation became about her defending whether she was disrespecting you or not. And she clearly doesn't feel that way.

I get this conversation is about her respecting your feelings, but try to make it about just that and having a relationship outside of religion rather than her being like, well, I didn't disrespect you. How could I disrespect you? So you always just be careful about saying something

that they will have to defend or an accusation. Yeah. You know, because then that's, that will trigger them. I know it's very nuanced and hard to do at times because you just wanna say the elephant in the room. But it's just like, yeah, it's more like, Mom, I know you invited me, I wasn't interested,

I've already expressed that to you. And I think always play dumb sometimes, not sarcastically, but hey, I just wanna talk. I just wonder how that conversation might, listen, it's always gonna be, this was always gonna be an ongoing thing. You were never gonna sit down with mom and dad and say anything and have them go, okay. You know what I'm saying?

That was never gonna happen. Like, years of programming. This is gonna only happen if you continue to stay consistent with what you want and show and reinforce that nothing they can do is gonna change your mind. And you have to almost be the parent here. You gotta be the patient one and not get treated.

Okay, Mom, all right, well once again, you know, not something I'm interested in, but love, but I still wanna hang out with you. If you guys are reading scripture today, I'm just gonna like respectfully pass, but like maybe we can get together next week. And yes, start offering her ideas. Hey mom, I'd love to get together and do X, Y, or Z with you.

You know? And you might have to, you know, come up with those ideas and do a little Y, or Z with you, you know? And you might have to come up with those ideas and do a little bit of the work. Because your mom, obviously, very invested in religion, God, it's her job, it's her identity, you know? So she kind of takes it personally. And again, like I said, the first time you called, she almost wears it like a scarlet letter,

someone who works at the church, where her daughter it like a scarlet letter. Someone who works at the church where her daughter is like, mmm church, you know? And then she's probably working with other people who like prayed their, you know, like brainwashed kids and like, well I, you know, my fucking kids go to church. Why don't your kids go to fucking church? Did you, you know? Yes, 100%. I shouldn't say brainwashed. Not everyone who goes, you know, religion could be a great thing for a lot of people. Yeah. But. Yeah, I get what you're saying. So I have a question for you. Shoot.

Like how you would navigate. So like going forward, I feel like the whole time I was having that conversation with them, I just felt like my mom, like I said, I had a very similar brain waves of my mom. And like I've gone to a lot of therapy to help me like learn how how to express my emotions and have

sympathy and relate with people and have hard conversations and be vulnerable. I feel like my mom, she's just never learned those skills. I genuinely feel like the whole conversation, she genuinely can't have a vulnerable conversations because she doesn't know how. And so I feel like therapy would be really great and really helpful. And I always, me and my sister always make the comments of everyone should go to therapy. Therapy's great.

It makes you so much happier. And I just feel like they're so shut off to it. And I don't wanna be like, mom, you need to go to therapy. But I kinda want to. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if your parents see therapy as anti-religious and a reason why you're not a part of the church.

Almost they blame, who's your therapist? You know, there are bad therapists out there. Yeah. You know, you can have a therapist that you haven't, you can have a toxic relationship with your therapist. People can become too dependent on their therapist. They can become incapable of making decisions without their therapist.

Not all therapists respects the fact that they, some therapists can like that power and control the debt they have over their clients. So like, that does exist, that concern. And the fact that you are leaning into therapy and control that they have over their clients. So like, you know, that does exist, that concern. And the fact that you are leaning into therapy while leaning away from religion, she's gonna be very resistant to that.

I think the best thing you can do is to continue to demonstrate healthy behaviors around her. To be a happy person around her. To be a positive person around her. And listen, I think you can go to church on Easter or fucking Christmas or whatever. I guess what I'm saying is you don't have to act like your skin's gonna be set on fire

if holy water touches you type of thing. You don't have to act like, ooh, Mom, I can't have you talk around, accept that she is religious and don't be anti-religious around her. It's just more like, it's just not for me, Mom. It's just not for me. Treat it like the Beatles are her favorite band

and you're just like, I don't really, you know. My mom loves the Beatles, but it's just not, you know, I'm not, I don't, they're fine. I can just do without it. Yeah. You know, I'm not, I don't, they're fine, I can just do without it. Yeah. You know, I think make more of that reproach than like being, don't let her see you get triggered when she brings up a religion, just kind of dismiss it.

You've already, you've made it very clear where you stand. So I wouldn't even engage with her about religion. I would just kind of ignore it, just ignore it. Yeah. Put it, your mom is just trying to get a reaction from you. So just don't react. The things that you don't want, you know, because even when you react negatively,

you're still getting a reaction, you know? Um. Yeah. And yeah, it'd be tough as far as getting into therapy. You just gotta demonstrate healthy behaviors and then down the road, you know, maybe you suggest it, you know? You know, but she can't road, maybe you suggest it.

But she can't see, she has to first see you not as a threat to her belief system. Because if your mom has a hard time opening up, listen, a lot of people in the religious space, there's a lot of like, everything happens for a reason. Nothing bad can happen, it's all part of God's plan. It's like that's how they kind of cope Nothing bad can happen. It's all part of God's plan, you know? So like that's how they like kind of cope with like bad things happening. Well, it's God's plan. This will, this will, something good will happen. Maybe, sure. I do think things tend to work out, but instead of like talking about their feelings and opening up and just saying, hey that fucking sucked, that hurt, that

was hard. I don't know how I'm gonna get through that. I know I will. I'll have to pick myself back up. I'm gonna have to deal. I'm gonna have to process. I'm gonna have to reflect. I'm gonna have to learn I'm gonna have to move on I'm gonna have to accept and kind of go through all the steps of grieving Your mom just wants to say everything happens for a reason God will take care of it. But that has been her core That's that that's that's a big part of who she is and she's really counting on that to cope through Probably a lot of hard times and so again, that's what that empathy comes in of just trying to understand where she's really counted on that to cope through probably a lot of hard times and so again that's where that empathy comes in of just trying to understand where she's coming from so I think it's like I don't think getting your mom into therapy is any type of short-term solution again showing

through your examples and not being triggered by her let her be her let her through you know just assume that your mom like you are now the adult in this relationship your mom is almost kind of the child. She's gonna react, she's gonna act out, you know? She's gonna kind of throw a temper tantrum, she's gonna get frustrated that she has lost this power and control that she's been so used to having.

But don't let that affect how you love your mom and how you treat your mom. And I think eventually she comes around. But I think this is gonna be a long process, I think. This is not something that happens in one or two conversations. In the meantime, just keep loving them. And try not to throw out those accusations. Your parents are gonna always...

Yeah, I knew the disrespected was gonna be very harsh. When they say things like, hey listen, what are you doing to get married? You can push back. When they say, oh I think you should choose new friends, be like, mom, dad, I appreciate. And that can be very triggering, and you're gonna wanna be like, what the fuck?

But if you can, if you can help yourself, the best response is be like, mom, dad, I don't appreciate when you talk that way about my friends. I understand that they're not part of the church, but they are good people. And just remember, mom and dad, well, I don't share every value system that you have that I attribute, and this is where you get them.

This is good, I just came up with this. This is a little manipulative. It's true though, I don't believe it's true. You say mom and dad, if you aren't aware of this already, that I attribute almost all of my success and who I am as a person and the character that I prioritize to how you guys raised me. And so thank you, you know, because you did a good job of raising me and I wouldn't be who I was today if it weren't for you.

So thank you. And I understand that I don't share and all your values, but like, when you say those things about me and my friends, like you're only criticizing how you raised me because I choose my friends very carefully and I chose my friends because I want I care about who I surround myself with I care about my friends character I care about who they are as people I understand they don't share the same faith that you have but you know they do share in the character that you have taught me to have as a person and I just asked that you be open-minded I asked that you do what Jesus would do.

Right. You know what I'm saying? You can use their language. You know, you can use, you know what I'm saying? Like, you know, you are very familiar with the church. You know how they talk and you can still talk their talk without walking their walk, especially as a way to get through to your parents. And you're right. There is a lot of hypocrisy in the church. So you can use that to your advantage and always do it calmly and always, you know, very hard to rebut, like be rebuttal when you're just like, literally everything that's good about me, I have you guys to thank, you know. What are they supposed to say to that?

Yeah. 100%. So is this helpful? No, it is very helpful. We have a family trip. We go for a week in May. So, we'll see how this one goes. Your mom's gonna keep, she's gonna make her comments.

She's gonna do her ship. She's gonna talk about religion. And let's say mom, like, oh, we're on a family trip. All right, we're gonna do some scripture reading for an hour. Be like, oh, that's awesome, guys. Have some fun. I'm just gonna go to the beach and work on my tan. But when you're done, just shoot on a family trip. All right, like we're gonna do some scripture reading for an hour, be like, oh, that's awesome, guys. Like have some fun. I'm just gonna go to the beach and work on my tan, but like when you're done, just shoot me a text.

And this be very like, don't roll your eyes, don't huff and puff, don't be like, oh, you're doing it again, mom. You're being manipulative. Don't react. Yeah, calm and collected. Because if you are in fact, just like your mom, you know what I'm saying?

It's that you're just, it's the same person with a different opposing views, but you're gonna surprise her with how you fight. She is gonna expect a reaction. And she's gonna respect, expect you to feel disrespected. So that's awesome. That is awesome that you guys are doing that. When we come back, I would love for us to,

and then come back with an idea. Go get your tan and say, hey, when we get back, I actually, I saw this, I think it'd be fun if we all do X, Y, or Z. Let's all go kayak, I don't know, whatever, wherever you guys go. You know what I'm saying? So like, yeah.

Come up with ideas, make suggestions, and I think it'll go a long way. I think so too. Okay. Yeah. All right. Well, keep us posted on how the family trip goes. I'd appreciate all your help. Yeah, all right.

I will, it's the end of May, so yeah. All right, well have fun, and it'll be great. But this is, remind yourself, you know, you're 30 years old, and you're, for the first time in 30 years setting new expectations to your parents so like it's not gonna happen overnight so you're gonna have to be patient with them. That's fair. That's very fair. Okay, alright, good luck. Thank you so much, I appreciate all your advice. Our

pleasure, thanks for calling in. Well I hope you guys enjoyed this episode again. If you want more updates from all of our Ask Nick Callers and texting office hours, just go to VileFiles.com, sign up for VileFiles Plus. It's free to sign up and you will not regret it. We'll be back on Monday for another episode of Ask Nick. We have Reality Recap on Tuesday, getting into all things Valley, Vanderpump, Bravo in general, probably some batch that are follow up.

We got Daisy on Thursday's episode of Going Deeper. You will not want to miss that. Until then, bye.