The Viall Files - E734 Ask Nick - My Husband’s a Shopaholic

Episode Date: April 15, 2024

Welcome back to another episode of The Viall Files: Ask Nick Edition! Before we get to our callers, we talk about last week’s caller… A lot of you wanted to know our thoughts, and some of you even wrote in! Our first caller had her engagement party spoiled by her “best friend,” who proceeded to bail on said party. She is afraid to confront her friend over this blunder and reconsider her as a bridesmaid. Our second caller got dumped over a spicy encounter she had over two years ago, long before they met. She struggles to acknowledge his hypocrisy and worries about sharing her history with future partners. Our final caller finds herself in a financial bind because of her “shopaholic” husband. Should she consider surrogacy to pay off her extreme debt? Or should she help her husband get to the root of his spending problem? “Stop having important conversations via text.” Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  To Order Nick’s Book Go To: https://www.viallfiles.com  If you would like to get some texting advice, send an email to [e-mail] with “Texting Office Hours” in the subject line!  To advertise on the show, contact [e-mail] or visit https://www.advertisecast.com/TheViallFiles THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: BetterHelp - Learn to make time for what makes you happy, with BetterHelp. Visit https://www.BetterHelp.com/VIALL today to get 10% off your first month. Hero Bread - Go to https://www.dreamlandbabyco.com and enter my code VIALL at checkout to receive 20% off sitewide + free shipping. This offer is for new and existing customers!” Dreamland Baby - Indulge in affordable luxury. Go to https://www.quince.com/viall for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Helix Sleep - Helix is offering 20% off all mattress orders AND two free pillows for our listeners! Go to https://www.HelixSleep.com/VIALL and use code HELIXPARTNER20. Factor - Head to https://www.FactorMeals.com/NICKVIALL50 and use code nickviall50 to get 50% off your first box plus 20% off your next box. Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @alison.vandam @dereklanerussell @justinkaphillips @leahgsilberstein

What's going on everybody? Welcome back to another episode of the Vilephiles Ask Nick edition. I am your host Nick, joined by the household of Leia and Ellie. Hello, Leia's. Sweet boy Justin is working on the Monica sizzle. He's hard at work. He's hard at work. He's really focused on this. Justin's always really been the Monica. We have Justin to thank for making sure that Monica came on here. He was always in my ear telling me we should do it. And it really, he was right about that one. Paid off?

Paid off. Anyways, we got a great episode for you. First, I wanted to do a little call back to last week. Our caller who was in the open relationship, but she originally called in, what was her headline? I'm dating one guy and thinking about sleeping with his friend. Can you date two friends in the same group? Yeah.

Or can you sleep with two guys in the same group? Yeah. She thought that that was like her big question and as often as the case with us, Nick. We peeled back some more layers. We got to the real issue at hand. You know, the more I thought about that call, to me like the big takeaway of that call,

like the lesson I hope we all learn from that call, regardless if you are trying to have sex with a couple of friends or if you're in an open relationship, that really wasn't the point. Like this call was a teachable moment for everyone who listened to this call. Because this call was a reminder, it should be a reminder to us all, it was a reminder to me, of just how good we are at convincing ourselves of things in general. And convincing ourselves of things that ultimately we're not comfortable with,

we don't really want. What she wanted was a relationship with this guy. And what he wanted was an open relationship. He wanted the freedom to have sex with multiple women without having to give up the security and whatever he built with his original girlfriend. And being a young man in a long distance relationship, he was able to kind of navigate

or convince the people around him to partake in this open relationship. And now that we are in 2020 and sex positivity is like this in vogue topic, especially with younger people, we all want to think that, okay, I'm an adult, I'm capable of having non-traditional sexual experiences. And like, yeah, listen, when you're young, that's definitely the time to experiment and have fun and yada, yada, yadaada. But like in real time we were listening to this young woman talk who was from all like from from talking to her seemed like very intelligent, very self-aware, you know. Like it was obvious talking to her that she had her shit

together so to speak. And yet it was so clear listening to her about what her true feelings were. She was saying out loud how she would never choose to be in an open relationship. And she was saying out loud that she would want to be with him if he would want to be with her. And it's like she didn't even hear those things. It was, I think, so obvious, certainly to me, but I think people listening of what she really wanted deep down, and yet she's calling in with her question being about how more experimental can I get with sex? I'm in this open relationship now,

can I have sex with this friend, and can I explore that? But deep down, she just cared about this guy and felt like she was incapable of bringing this up to him because of this upfront expectation that he had set with her early on. And she was unwilling to see that because she wanted to convince herself that she was a type of person

who could have that type of sexual relationship. And kind of be like, yeah, I'm mature, I'm hip, I'm cool. And I just, I remember, especially at that age, I mean, if, you know, being a father for a few weeks now, and I kind of am always thinking about River, and as she gets older, and lessons that age, I mean, being a father for a few weeks now, and I'm always thinking about River, and as she gets older, and lessons I wanna teach her, and things I struggled with as a young man, perspective and things like that.

But when you are 18, 19, 20, I mean, shit, to some degree it never stops. We will always be capable. I always say the biggest liars who ever lie to ourselves is us. I always say no one will lie to us more than we will lie be capable. I always say the biggest liars who ever lie to ourselves is us. I always say no one will lie to us more than we will lie to ourselves. So that's kind of what this is,

but it's really just our ability to convince ourselves. Like we will manipulate ourselves into thinking that we are okay with things that we are not okay with. We can convince ourselves that we will wanna do career changes, because maybe we're just because maybe we can be unhappy with where we're at in our life

and then convince ourselves of things that might fix that, that we don't really want to do. It's kind of crazy and scary, but I think it's something we always have to be mindful of. And it is the importance of like, especially when you decide you want to do something, that's a big shift, you should definitely talk to unbiased people. I don't even know what those...but just try to be aware of it.

Because it is crazy just how capable we are of convincing ourselves of things that we don't want. And we put ourselves in bad situations sometimes and if all we did was just acknowledge that you know maybe I'm just kind of maybe I don't want to do this maybe I'm just convincing myself and we won't listen to ourselves and we will ignore our needs you know and it's it's it's to me it's it's so, our ability to do that. Like, again, she was saying out loud, she couldn't even hear herself talk.

This intelligent young lady, very self-aware lady, couldn't really see what we saw that was so obvious. And I think that's just an important lesson to learn, just how, and we're all capable of this. It's just, I just find that to be, I look back when I was younger about how convincing I was to myself for things that deep down I didn't wanna do. I thought it would fix a problem

or I thought it would maybe distract me from something else. But it wasn't exactly what I wanted. And yet I, boy, I would get in fights with people. Be like, hey, you sure you wanna, hey, don't exactly what I wanted, you know? And yet I, boy, you know, like I would get in fights with people, like, hey, don't tell me what I think I wanna do and stuff like that, but oh yeah, we always have to be careful about that stuff. And I think that call was a great reminder to us all of our ability to manipulate, to lie,

and to not have our own best interests in mind, which seems like crazy. Like, why wouldn't we have our own best interests in mind? Of course we have own best interest in mind, which seems like crazy. Like why wouldn't we have our own best interest in mind? Of course we have our best interest in mind, but she didn't have her best interest in mind. She was so convinced that this open relationship was no big deal and that she was mature enough to handle it, she was ignoring her actual needs

and her needs of like being able to speak up to a guy that she was falling for and having feelings for someone and trying to pretend that she wouldn't be totally hurt if he decided to just cut things off with her and then started competing with this girl. It was kind of crazy. I think for a lot of people it's probably easy to listen to that call and be like, oh this is a crazy story, maybe judge a little bit you know because they've never, of course I would never be in an open relationship. It wasn't even about an open relationship or fucking two friends. It was just about

her ability to ignore her needs and convince herself of something. And that is something we're all capable of. And I think it's just a great reminder to us all. I really resonated with this caller specifically because I remember, you know, I've been with Danny since high school and there were a lot of people who were dating in high school. And when it came time to go to college, open relationships were all the rage. Everybody was deciding, okay, we'll go to college, we'll be in an open relationship, you can hook up with whoever you want, but like we're together and when you're back in LA or when we're both back in LA, we're together. And so when it came time for Danny and I to have that

conversation, I did what this caller did. I convinced myself, you know what, it'll be okay. Like if he wants to have an open relationship, like maybe it could work. Maybe it'll be fun. I'll have the ability to go, you know, party. And I was going to a party school. So I was like, okay, I'll be able to party and still have the security of a boyfriend. And then it wasn't until we sat down and had the conversation and we were like, okay, what do we want to do? And Danny said, I want to stay together and be exclusive that I realized that that's what I wanted to. And I just like had convinced myself

because I was anticipating anything. Yeah. And I was like- You didn't want to lose him. I didn't want to lose him. And so I was like, oh, you know what? It could work. Everybody else is doing it.

But literally everybody else decided to do it. Who was together. And I mean, they all broke up. Like not a single one of them lasted, but yeah. And us staying together exclusively was the best thing. Cause now we're married and everything worked out. But yeah, I, I resonated with this caller because it is easy to look at her and be like, what are you doing?

But it is so easy to convince yourself of something when you want it so badly. Or you have such a fear. And it wasn't the open relationship she wanted, what she wanted was a chance to have a relationship with him and this bought her time. And she's so scared that if she has the conversation with him, he's gonna end it, cause you know. Which is what she should.

Well, that's the thing, I feel like anytime you do that, cause I had people in college too, who are like, oh, I'm in an open relationship with someone from back home. And it's like, they're just trying to like, make the most educated decision or like avoid risk of losing somebody. But then it's like, certain people have these weird rules of like, oh yeah, like my girlfriend back home said that I can hook up with people, but I can't sleep with the same girl twice.

It has to just be like a one and done so we don't catch feelings. Like I was like, this is too much. Yeah, it's crazy. This particular caller is so clear. She has feelings for this guy. And she wasn't calling about, you know, should I sleep with two guys in the same friend group? I kept forgetting during that call that there was another guy in the conversation. I know. And he's in the same friend group. So it would just make everything worse.

Interestingly enough, somebody wrote in with a question but was in a direct response to the first caller in the cheating calendar episode of last week. She says, hi Nick and household. I just listened to the first caller on episode 731 cheating calendar. I have a very similar situation with a couple of key differences. One, we are older, he's 35 and I'm 35 almost 36. Probably should know better at this point. We have also not had sex or oral sex. Also, I've told him now how I feel and actually taken a break from speaking and seeing him. It was only two weeks, but it was incredibly hard for me and I cried a lot and felt very down most days. Since we've reconnected, he reached out to me, it's been much better. More boundaries and less feelings, but it's still so hard

not to be like, WTF is his problem, why does he not want to be with me? It is so hard to find someone that I connect with like this, but I think since I feel the way I do and I've told him how I feel and he's done nothing about the situation, I have to walk away again. My issue is how do I cut off that relationship when our friend group and lives are so intertwined? I feel like I almost can't walk away because then I would have to explain to other people why and then either not go to Social events or workout classes. I know you will be at when I want to be at those things Nick has said before there are other social events and other gyms

So I get it. Those are all feasible things to fix I guess it's just the other people then that I don't know how to navigate about why I'm not hanging out or speaking to our Other friends now any advice I would be so grateful. Stop acting like it's the end of the world. I mean, all she is talking about is deciding that this person that she's hanging out with that has mutual friends no longer is something she wants to be in. It's not that dramatic. I know it feels dramatic for her. And yeah, this, you know, maybe going to a different gym or certain social settings is only temporary and only based off of her ability to handle the situation.

It's like putting a pause. Hey, listen, this is just a little much for me. Why are we hanging out? Because honestly, her ego doesn't want to acknowledge and feel embarrassment that she doesn't wanna say out loud. He doesn't wanna make me a priority. He doesn't wanna be with me. And that's really too hard for me to handle. But that's doesn't want to say out loud, he doesn't want to make me a priority, he doesn't want to be with me, and that's really too hard for me to handle.

But that's an empowering thing to say, you know? All people, but especially women supporting women, you know, just be like standing up for herself and saying, you know what, I deserve more, I deserve to be treated better, I, you know, I'm getting crumbs from you, and to actually have the guts to say that, name it, and, you know, set the boundary. She should be proud of her ability to do that, name it, and set the boundary.

She should be proud of her ability to do that, not embarrassed, but we always feel embarrassed. It's like, oh, I don't know what I'm gonna tell people. Tell them the truth. It's not that complicated. We tried, he doesn't want this, and I'm just decided to move on. And again, as I always say,

if he was ever gonna change his mind, that will be what changes his mind, her showing her ability to live life without him. She's right now thinking of all the reasons why it's gonna be so difficult to move on. And she's almost saying to her out loud, well, I'll just deal with it. I'll just accept less because I'm somehow stuck.

She's not stuck, she's acting stuck. He can feel that energy. He's acting like she's stuck, which is why he's making decisions that he's making. And the moment she starts acting in reality that she's not stuck, that she has her own agency, that she's not dependent on this friend group, that she can make other friends,

and yeah, she can still hang out with these people. And if it is a little tough for the first two months to see him, to create some distance, doesn't mean she's firing the group, it doesn't mean she has to ever hang out with these people and if it is a little tough for the first two months to see him to like you know create some distance doesn't mean she's firing the group it doesn't mean she has to ever hang out again she's just putting a pause for a little bit of a time while she like just like gets over it that's all like you can't again convincing ourselves she's convincing herself that this is like the end of the world and it's not you know she's convincing herself she's stuck and she has no

options. That's not true. So stop convincing yourself. That'd be my advice. Just, okay, yeah. Like I'm not saying quit a gym. I'm not saying quit these friends, but showing that you are capable of, you know, not being so needy on friend groups, showing that you're capable of being independent, showing that you're capable of being independent, showing that you're capable of potentially making friends if that's what you need, and showing this guy, and quite honestly anyone else, that you're gonna be fine. Nothing will make you more attractive than anyone else

to let them know, I don't need you, I want you. There's a difference. When someone acts like they need you, it's like, eh, I don't know if I need you though. When someone acts like, I don't know if I need you, but I want you, and they show you that they don they need you, it's like, eh, I don't know if I need you though. You know, when someone acts like, I don't know if I need you, but I want you, like, and they show you that they don't need you, they're like, oh, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, but I need you.

Yeah, I think too, time is such a healer, and as more time passes, it's gonna feel less fresh, the rejection and the feelings that she has for him, and then eventually she'll be able to hang out at those gyms and not think twice, you know? And time will heal. And that's such a hard thing to think about when you're like in it.

But then as a certain amount of time passes, you're gonna look back and be like, oh, I'm so over that. 100%. Our baby has never slept better. I mean, she's sleeping longer and longer every single day. Thank you. The Dreamland baby waited sleep sack.

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All right. We've got a great week lined up for you. We recorded in the Desert over the weekend at Coachella thanks to our friends at Putra. It's going to be a ton of fun. That's tomorrow, reality recap, and then we have a great episode of Going Deeper this week as well. Be sure to tune in for that. Don't forget to send us a question at asknickoftheviolinfiles.com. For all things Ask Nick, texting, office hours, mediation, you know what's up.

All right, let's get to our callers. Question time with Nick. Let's ask Nick your sexy questions. How's it going? Hi, I'm Tara. I'm 28 and my best friend no showed my engagement party. Okay, your best friend no showed your engagement party. Explain to me the difference between a bachelorette showed my engagement party. Okay, your best friend no showed your engagement party. Explain to me the difference

between a bachelorette and an engagement party. Oh, an engagement party, when you got engaged. Like now I had it, like the day of our engagement. Okay, an engagement party. Okay, got you. There's so many parties when it comes to like weddings and you can engage, I get the confused, I apologize. So you got engaged, was the engagement party

the day of your engagement or was it like a few days afterwards? Walk me through like the logistics of this engagement party. Yeah. So the backstory is basically me and my now fiance bought our ring, my ring in January. And then after that, he was kind of behind the scenes like planning this engagement party to happen on the same day that he was proposing. So I didn't know like the day or the details or anything.

But I kind of like just suspected that something was happening just because it's something we have talked about in the past. But I didn't have like 100% certainty that that's what he was doing on the same day and I didn't know the day. But all my friends are basically from college. We played a sport together in college. And they all know each other, but they're not all like friends. Like they're not all close. And so basically what happened is my fiance reached out to all of them and was like, Hey, this is the plan. This is the day. And then they all kind of got together with each other. And we're basically coordinating it. Like we're going to do this theme, we're going to decorate it this time. And it was

at my house. And basically the plan was I was going to leave with my fiance and he was going to propose and then we would come back and have like the surprise engagement party. So I didn't know at the time, obviously all the stuff happening, but I knew once I got engaged, then like about an hour later, this friend called me and was like, Hey, I'm not coming to the engagement party. Basically like telling me she was gonna miss it and I wasn't there yet. So then my fiance- She spoiled the surprise? Yeah.

So my fiance was very, very upset and he's not somebody who like really gets upset, but the surprise aspect was very important to him. Yeah, this isn't a surprise birthday party, this is an engagement. So like, by Yeah, this isn't a surprise birthday party. This is an engagement. So like, by definition, it should be a surprise. And even the non planners out there, myself included, will kind of go, you know, will go all out and try to obviously land the proposal. And so... Yeah. And so, yeah, he was, he was very upset. And on the way back, he was just like, well, just walk in and pretend you're surprised.

And I did that and it was great. And like, it's not the takeaway from anybody else who was there. But then all my other friends were like, what's happening? Like where is she? Because they all, they all knew she was supposed to be there. And basically in the conversation when she told me she wasn't coming, she was in town. She usually lives out of state like about four or five hours away, but she was in town for something else.

So I was like, oh, it just happens to be the case that she was in town and couldn't make it. But then I found out from my other friends that that was not the case and she was fully supposed to be there the whole time. So then I was just kind of like a sloppy face. Wait, wait, wait, hold on, hold on, backtrack. So she doesn't live in your city, but she just happened to be in your city the night of your engagement party,

which you knew, but I guess what is the information you found out that she lied about actually being there or what she was doing there? Yeah, so she kind of, I think, minimized her involvement in knowledge of the engagement party. Like when we first talked, it seemed like she had just happened to be there and was going to try to stop by versus like she was fully supposed to be there the whole day and

chose to know some. Do you know why she chose not to come? She had other things like she was in town for her family and for her in-laws. And I think it was her in-laws celebrating something. So she was like feeling obligated to be part of that. And they had just got married in October. But I mean, I just feel like- And when you say best friend,

like best friend is such a relative term. Sometimes you meet someone and it's really intense. You've been friends for four months and you're like, God, you're like my best friend. And in some ways you are because you're hanging out so much or there's an intensity or whatever. And then other times, I have my best friends for people I've known since high school.

And while I don't talk to them every day like I used to, they're still my best friends. Where are we in the best friend spectrum? Yeah, so she is one of my top five closest friends. Um, so she is like one of my top five closest friends. Um, we've been friends for about 12 years. And then we went to college together and we've stayed really close ever since. And she's, I'm basically the last of my friend group to get married and she was kind of like second to last. So her and I were kind of unmarried and like, you know, like having children and stuff like that. So we would go on trips together. Like we've spent a lot

more time together in our adult lives just because our, our lives were more aligned. And then some of my other friends like got married several years ago and had kids. So like I hang out with them less and text them less just because the availability, but yeah. So I would say on the spectrum, like we are like best friends, like in the term of, I thought she was somebody who was like ride or die for me Have you confronted her? Yes, so I did text her because she

Texted me like the Monday after and was like, hey, how did the party go? Yeah Yeah, and I basically Responded I actually actually was really thoughtful about it because I didn't want it to be this big blow up, but it got to the point where all my other friends were really upset too, and these other friends aren't friends with her.

So it's kind of like I'm in the middle now of this kind of dispute, and I just said to her, look. I appreciate your other friends who are not friends with her to her, like, look like... I appreciate your other friends who are not friends with her to like have your back, but they shouldn't be more mad than you. And I think you do need to be careful.

Like, do you have a right to be annoyed? For sure. Clearly she did not make you a priority on your day. And like, I don't know how great her in-laws are. I mean, super lucky to have Nellie's mom as my future mother-in-law. And I like to think that Nellie is super lucky to have Nellie's mom as my future mother-in-law. And I like to think that Nellie is super lucky to have my parents. But like, I wouldn't expect Nellie to miss her best friend's engagement

because of my mom's birthday. Right. Like, that being said, like, you need to be careful that your friends aren't going to use this mishap by your other friend, who they don't really have any loyalty to to say you should be mad but what they're really saying is we're better friends than her. Yeah, that's kind of what I feel like is happening right now because when I had texted her, you know, I kind of just shared and was like, look, like it was great. I was so it was so like special. Like honestly, when I walked into my house and I saw all my friends, like I cried just

because those are like girls that you go through so much with and you get to experience this like huge day in your life and you get to see all your people. Like it's just a really cool moment to be able to celebrate with them after something so big. And I just like fully expected her to be there. And I told her that it just hurt my feelings. And I just was honest about it and was like, hurt my feelings.

And actually, similar to what you just said, it just showed me that it wasn't really a priority because to me, between a birthday and an engagement party, it just wouldn't even be close. And- It's hopefully a once in a lifetime opportunity. And then depending on how close the friendship is, obviously, you know, your engagement party was about you and your fiance, but like for the people you, you know, are closest friends

with, typically, especially women, because you know, women spend more time thinking about maybe an engagement or their wedding day than I guess the average guy. Those are the people you want to celebrate with and be like, hey, today's the day we talked about for so long, ah, you know, shit like that. And then part of your engagement party was about A, her fucking up to surprise, and then B, why isn't she there, you know?

And part of being a really close friend is the obligation that you are going to be there for those special moments because when you're not, it becomes like breaking news. It becomes a distraction rather than, and you kind of have to recognize that as a best friend if you want that title that you, sometimes you have to miss things, that's understandable. But the fact that she went about it the way she did

and kind of, yeah, like for her reasoning, she shouldn't have gotten a less, like her reasoning should have included like your fiance, for example, the way it should have gone down. If her reasoning was legit and it was a situation she just could not get out of and she was devastated

and she had to miss your engagement party, then that could have been communicated to your fiance. Because she could have been like, oh my God, what can I do to help? How can I set this up? I'm so sick, I can't be there. But I could just, I can't, whatever. The reason why, whether you agree with it or not. Then after you got engaged on your way to your engagement party, your fiance could have said, hey, listen, I got some bummer news.

Becky can't make it. She tried her hardest. I know she's gonna reach out, but just so you know, like she can't. And that way she wouldn't have ruined the surprise and that should have been fully communicated and your fiance and her should have been on the same page, but clearly she wasn't on the same page with the fiance.

Clearly she wasn't even involved in the planning or having anything to do with the party. She didn't step up and try to help in any way. Because otherwise she would have been more invested in it. It was just more like she knew it was happening, she knew it was going down, and she said, she went, oh, by the way, sorry, I can't make it, without even knowing that it was a surprise,

and was more worried about covering her ass than making sure that in addition to not making your party, she didn't ruin the surprise. Like she needs to recognize the fuck up. Yeah. And like I'm a very confrontational person. So I had in so many words, essentially said something like that. Like, look, like I'm like, I can move past this.

Like we've been friends for 12 years, but like I'll move past it. You said things came up, you couldn't make it, whatever. Like it's fine. like we can move forward. I just want to like hear that you understand, like that it makes sense to you that I'm upset and that I just wanted you to be there. Like, I'm not angry.

It really came from a place of like, I wish you could have been there. You wanted your best friend to validate your feelings. Yeah, and then kind of, I was not very pleased with the response because it was basically like, well, I just got married too. And like, you'll see that in this season, people will disappoint you. And it just kind of is what it is. And I just kind of was like, it's not what I wanted to hear.

She is absolutely right. But she's also saying, we're not as close as you want us to be. Yeah. And what did you say to her in response? Was it something like that? Because you're literally telling me that we're simply just not as close as I thought we were. Because you're right. You could say to her, I'm not delusional.

Of course, I know as I'm an adult, I know that people will disappoint me. I understand that. I just didn't think you would be one of those people, point blank. Yeah. And I kind of was, I almost at that point was just trying to appease the situation

because at the end of the day, I don't wanna have a blow up fight about this. I really don't. I said my piece and just wanted to move forward from it. And I think the stickiest part right now is that I think I do still want her to be a bridesmaid. Why? But, I know.

And that's what my other friends are wondering too, like, and they all know her and it's just kind of like, do you want to have to wrangle somebody's attention and care during the season, or just like invite her to the wedding and just let it be what it is. So. I mean, I guess the question is, when you select your bridesmaids, what is the qualification? I think everyone's different.

Are you celebrating them or are they celebrating you? Yeah. Because your friend. I don't know. Literally told you, she basically told you to wear your big girl pants and was kind of like grow up or not that close. Yeah.

And I'm a married woman now, I don't got time for like college friendships or whatever you met. You know what I'm saying? That's kind of what she said. And I don't know what your expectations of your bridesmaids are for your wedding. Natalie has expected very little from her bridesmaids.

She got pregnant, didn't have a bachelorette party. We had some bridal showers, but Natalie didn't have a lot of expectations of them. So there was very little opportunity for her bridesmaids to disappoint her. Not that they would have, I'm not. But I'm just saying you have the right to have the wedding that you want,

and you need to ask yourself what your expectations of your bridesmaids are because she sounds like someone who doesn't want a lot of expectations of her. And she showed through her actions and the followup, you know, of you just wanting acknowledgement that you were justified to feel the way that you did. And she basically told you that you weren't. And she told you that, listen,

it's like if you ask her to be your bridesmaid, you should assume that she's gonna that if she says yes, first of all, that it will be on her terms, and that she will make what she can make. And you need to know where you fall in line in terms of the priority because it sounds like mom-in-law is on a higher playing field than you are? Yeah, I think that's a really good question. I'm not sure what my expectations are. It's kind of like most of the people who are in my wedding, I was in theirs and I love them all for different reasons. And so I think with this one in particular, like last year, like she just got married. And so we just went through this whole thing on her end of it. And I was at everything that

I could make it to. And if there was things out of state and I had a conflict like for work or something else, like I would tell her in advance and like, you know, just be straight up about it. I don't think my expectation is like, you have to make everything or you have to focus 100% on my wedding otherwise, like you're done. But I think what I'm struggling with is like, just the way that this happened. I think that a lot. Yes, you are right.

Her response is even worse than the action and her missing it is actually, me third on the offense scale. The biggest offense I think is how she's handled your what sounds like in taking your word, your reasonable response to you communicating your feelings, you know, and simply wanting some kind of acknowledgement. She couldn't do that. So that kind of set the tone. Number two is her ruining the surprise. That's it's like 1A1B because again, missing it, sometimes people have to miss shit. It's, you know, that is happening. But how she went about missing it was so cavalier and so like not important to her. It really meant nothing to her. Most girlfriends want to help. Can I help? You know, like, can I reach out to the fiance and you know, what can I do? And if I can't even be there. And she didn't even know what

time you were going to get engaged and even think to like ruin the surprise or even not. Does she realize she ruined the surprise? I don't think so. Why not? Why didn't you tell her? I think she knew that I had my suspicions of something being planned after, but I wasn't totally sure if the engagement party was happening then or the next weekend or something.

I just didn't know. Yeah. And my fiance was trying so hard to keep it a secret. He literally, at one point, we were getting gas or something and I had gone inside and he took my phone and took the notifications off of my security alarms to like make sure that I didn't see people coming to my house.

Like he really, really cared about it being a surprise. Question, have you only communicated via text since then or have you spoken in person or on the phone? Yeah, it's been text. Okay. That's gotta stop. Yeah. And I should have asked you that sooner.

That's a little bit like, stop fucking, this is a message to everyone, I'm not saying this to you, I'm saying this to my audience. Stop having important conversations via text. With little point, that's it. With your work colleagues, with your work colleagues with your partners with your friends anything important where you especially when it comes to feelings and emotions especially when you're trying to communicate how you

feel and you're expecting some kind of specific response stop texting that shit because it's so easy to read that and the defensively it's so easy to read it in the way that they wanna read it. Your goal, as you pointed out via text, was to try to be empathetic to her and not make her feel bad, but also you wanted some acknowledgement. But do you have the text that you sent her?

I do. Can you send it to Justin? Yeah. And the other thing that I had actually forgotten about until just now is that the two things that I couldn't make it to for her was one was her engagement party, but it was out of state and it was like very, very quickly after I got out of them very bad relationship. And I had just been honest with her and told her like, Look, I don't know if I can do this right now. Like, I'm emotionally like at ground zero and can't

make the drive like can't do this. And I just it wasn't a surprise. Like I just told her like, Look, I love you. And I'm so happy for you. And I want to be there for you. And I was actually there like right when she got back from her engagement as well. But I just didn't make it to the party. She remembers that. Oh yeah, but she remembered that. And so that like really upset me because I was just like, okay, I was trying to just be honest with you at that point, you know? And then like at the time she was seemingly okay with it. But then kind of seems like she wanted to

hold it against me. Again, like, yeah, it sucks that she wasn't there, but to me, hearing your story, her not being there is like on the bottom of the things that she could have done better. Do you have them as well? Yeah. Do you want me to read it or do you want me to read it?

I want you to read it in the most sarcastic, passive aggressive way that you can. So it reads, I haven't seen you since your wedding day, and I was genuinely so excited and really hoping that you were going to be there because we never get to see each other. All I wanted was to hear you acknowledge that it makes sense to be upset

that my best friend of 10 years didn't coordinate her day well enough to be able to be there. I never said you're throwing everything back on me but I knew specifically that you would use it against me that I didn't come to your engagement party two weeks after I got out of an abusive relationship and called off a wedding, and wasn't in a place mentally to be able to celebrate or leave my house for anything besides work without having a meltdown, and that I was on a work trip that I couldn't avoid for your bridal shower. It's just not the same ballpark at all as

you simply not planning the day or being willing to tell your in-laws that it was important for you to be there. And choosing a birthday dinner over a one-time thing to celebrate my engagement, which you know is uniquely emotional for me, just shows me where your priority is, which is absolutely fine because that is your family. But I can't help but think that your role is reversed and I got married before you and you went through what I went through. I would have done anything to be there especially with six weeks notice so it's

just hard to comprehend this in light of the rest of our relationship the rest of our friendship when you have shown up for me I figure you would have just owned it and apologize and that's your bitchiest voice I don't have a bitchy voice I don't think it matters because even listening in that message, like hearing that back, it seems kind enough. It continues if you want me to read the rest. You can keep going. Okay.

So it continues on to the next paragraph and it says, but at the end of the day, it's not a competition and nothing can change what has already happened. We've been friends for 10 years. I love you to death and all I was trying to say is that it hurt me that you weren't there, and that it seemed so careless and thoughtless to call me an hour after I got engaged and tell me you just didn't know where my house was and didn't plan right. And then you told me you would reach out Sunday and I got nothing but an Instagram story. Even so-and-so was surprised I wasn't immediately pissed when you called.

I was on such a high it didn't sink until later. At the end of the day, nothing is going to change and what's done is done. I had certain expectations that weren't met and my feelings were hurt. You know as much as anybody that it's stressful and there's so many expectations on every little thing. Anyway, thank you for asking how it went.

It was the hands down best day of my life and all I wanted to say is that I wished you were there. There is almost zero chance she read that whole thing. Because as much as you thought that was like some sort of like empathetic, kind message, there are so many like sentences in there that, I mean, I don't know, what do you think, hearing it back, that could easily put her on the defense?

Yeah. You were right to say everything you said, but like sending this via text message, you didn't even get to the whole understanding part until the second paragraph. Meanwhile, she probably stopped reading that part. And that was sandwiched in between a couple, again, justifiable things that you said. But if your goal was to try to get her to understand where you're coming from. You texting accusations, whether you're justified or not, is going to get that person receiving that message

on the defense. And they're gonna read it in a way that is defensive. They're not gonna hear your voice. They're not gonna see your body language. They're not gonna, it's harder for someone to empathize with what you're trying to say when they don't have the benefit of all the means of communication people, you know, what do they say? Most communication is nonverbal type of thing, you know, whatever body language, tone, things

like that, which you lose in a text. And we have all these people, yourself included, this, you know, texting has destroyed communication. Best friends are having serious conversations via fucking text messaging. If someone's sending me a text like that, there's no way I'd read the whole thing. Call me an ass. What I'm just saying, that's, that's would you? Yes. But I think I'm like uniquely like I'm very responsive on my phone and read things and respond basically right away.

But even if even if that message or even if you got defensive and the first three sentences were a couple of like accusations that maybe at that time you know you would have thoughtfully and carefully read with a very kind of understanding and open to criticism POV? Yeah, I mean, I got thinking about it that way, probably not. Like if I got a text that like really pissed me off, I'd probably put it aside for a bit. But it was interesting hearing it back because that did have a different tone than it did like in my head when I wrote it. Because in my head, when I wrote it, it was really like, I want to explain why I'm hurt, and then I want you to understand that,

but then when you read it, it's kind of like, I'm just like coming out hurt. You sound mad, yeah, and rightfully so. You have the right to be mad, that is just to be clear, you gotta stop fucking texting this shit. The fact that you have not spoken to her in person, on the phone, via FaceTime, you have all these forms of communication at your disposal

and you're sending text messages, like a bot. Yeah, and she is actually one of my friends who, we have probably the most, it doesn't look like it right now, but we have one of the deeper emotional friendships because we've shared a lot of things in terms of our mental health journeys and stuff like that. And we've really bonded on that. And so I think looking at that text

and kind of how things went, it was miserable for me because I was very anxious sending and receiving these texts that were very emotional. And then I'm sure she was feeling the same way. So I think it probably just exacerbated it even more versus like if I had just called her and been like, hey, like I'm really hurt by this without giving a whole kind of prelude to why I'm right. Yeah, because she didn't have the benefit of hearing your voice or seeing your face or seeing

the sadness on your face. And it makes it harder to connect. It makes it harder to empathize. It makes it harder to relate. So whatever POV she went into that conversation with, she continued that POV, you know? And her POV is I got my own shit to deal with. And so it was very much she wasn't in an empathetic understanding putting herself in your shoes type of mood. And that message certainly didn't help it just made her

like dig her heels into you missed my party you know like oh yeah you're calling me out for something you did for me and this is a nuanced conversation clearly because you know just because it's not an apples-to-apples situation you know there's layers as you pointed. And you can't have a nuanced conversation via email or text. So that's my big takeaway. And so, the good news is, is kind of everything we said before this

is maybe on the table, but there may be some reconciliation possible still. I don't know, but it requires at least a minimum of phone call, but probably a FaceTime and ideally a face-to-face conversation where it's just like, hey, listen, the biggest reason why I'm mad or even upset is because of how much our friendship means to me.

And I wanted to articulate that. I'm sorry I sent it to be a message, but I have all these other friends, which you're not friends with, they're all mad at you and they don't understand you and I don't want that to be the case. Do you even realize that you did ruin the surprise? I just honestly thought that you would be more involved

and if nothing else, you would have known not to ruin the surprise. Either way, I don't wanna feel like our... Here's how the way you simplify it. It sounds like she totally understands your emotional and mental state of mind when she got engaged of what you're going through. And because of which, you not coming didn't make her question how much your friendship was a priority to you. It sounds like you reached out and said, and really went out of your way to explain why you couldn't make it. Did she like you reached out and said, and really went out of your way to explain why you couldn't make it.

Did she text you or call you? She sent you a text too? When she told me she wasn't making it, she called me. She did call, okay, I'm good on her. Don't get into the weeds of, it's like, listen, at the end of the day, you not showing up and like handling the way you did, right or wrong, whatever your attention is, kind of,

and then your response to me expressing my frustration just made me feel like you've kind of outgrown us. And I hope that's not true, but it makes me sad if it is, but I'm really, I don't want it to be. But that's how it felt, and I'm hoping we can fix it. But that needs to happen on a face-to-face phone call, a FaceTime, she needs to see your emotions, she needs to see your face. She needs to see your face.

If you're listening, stop fucking having meaningful conversations via text, because it is never delivered in the way you want. If it requires a fucking paragraph, then it's nuanced. If you have to explain yourself, if there's, and this, but this, and also have you considered this, if there are layers, that is a conversation that needs to be had at a minimum over the phone? Yeah, that's definitely good advice. The other question that I had is, so ideally, like we come to a common ground

and can move forward, what should I say to some of my other friends who are still very upset about it? Okay, well, you know, you could say, listen, thank you for having me back. That means a lot. But, you know, I got this, you know, and I'm not making excuses with my friend. But like, you know, we've been through a lot. We're working shit out. Trust me. You know me. You have no you know me that I'm capable of standing up for myself. I've worked it out with her, so just trust me." And it's one thing to have a friend's back. It's another thing to... If someone

says... Short of, again, there's the exception of like, hey, listen, like you mentioned, and you would know because it sounds like unfortunately you have experienced an abusive relationship and I'm sure you probably had friends say, hey, you know, we're concerned. And in those situations, yeah, friends, it is important for our friends to speak up, you know, and say things. But I don't think your friends are worried

about this type of situation. They're just like, they don't like how she handled it, you know? So they should be able to trust that you are capable of speaking up for yourself, handling your friendships, and that while you appreciate their consideration that like you're asking them to like not continue to hold this grudge because you're not. But that's assuming you work through it, you know? So let's focus on the issue at hand and if it gets to a place where you want to go then that conversation with the other friend

should in fact be easier because if you are covering for her they'll sense it. Just like when you know what it's like to cover for a bad boyfriend. So hopefully when you do have this conversation with the other friends you won't be covering for her, you will simply just be saying you worked through it because hopefully you did. And if you don't work through it then just be saying you worked through it, because hopefully you did. And if you don't work through it, then if you call her up, if you get on the FaceTime and you lead with love and you say,

hey listen, the reason for I'm calling, and by the way, I'm really sorry that I expressed my frustrations via text. That wasn't the best way to do that, because again, the reason I'm most upset about is how much I care about our friendship and the feeling of you not being there how much I care about our friendship and the feeling of you not being there made me feel about, you know, where our friendship is.

And so that's where this is coming from. And you start there and you can get in, you know, to your frustrations and what you hope to get out of it is just like, listen, it just made me feel like I wasn't a priority. And like, it's hard for me to understand how I was based on how it all went down. And you can have your back and forth and you guys can speak your piece, but you gotta go into that conversation. Every conversation like nuance needs to start

with some upfront expectation. What is the, you know, not to sound corny, what's the goal of the conversation? You know, especially if you're gonna go into a conversation that's gonna have some conflict, hey, you know, I had a sensitive conversation with a sibling and I wanted to ask them some personal questions. I wanted to ask them some questions

I wasn't sure was gonna trigger them. But I said, hey listen, just so you know, at the end of the day, I love you. I'm here to support you. Like whatever you wanna do, I'm here to have your back. But if it's okay if I ask you some questions and have a better understanding of what's going on, I'd love to do that. Me starting that conversation that way really helped as opposed to me going in and be like, hey, what are you doing?

What's going on? Why are you doing this? Don't you realize how this is affecting other people? Yada, yada, yada. You know what I'm saying? But me starting it off by saying, I hope this conversation ends with us being reconnected, being on the same page. You feeling like you have my support, yada yada. Like stating the mission of the intention. Because sometimes to get where you wanna go, it requires a little mess

and a little little bumps in the road. But if that person realizes what the goal of the end of the conversation is, that helps. Not always, you know, sometimes it still might get derailed, but people don't usually start off by saying what they hope this confrontation is going to lead to. Yeah, you know. That's really helpful. So step one, reach out to the friend. Like, do you have plans to see each other at all? Not really. I mean, we are out of state. So usually when we see each other, it's like a planned thing, like a group trip or somebody's out to rest or something.

Send her a text and be like, hey, sweetie, I don't know. I'm sure you're busy, but I miss you. I'd love to catch up. Do you have time for a FaceTime in the next couple days? Yeah. Don't even like preface it like we need to talk. Try to keep it chill. Yeah, I think that's maybe part of it too is because I think in my head I had this expectation that like I would get to see her and I haven't seen her since her wedding day. When I was

in her wedding and her wedding like we were talking all the time. I was the bridesmaid and I was helping with a bunch of stuff. So I was kind of just excited for that part and the start for me. And I just felt uniquely hurt by that. And there was other friends who couldn't make it, but I think you're right that I've had certain expectations in my head just for her. And I think it would be good to just have that conversation. Yeah, and it will be very telling one way or the other because either your other friends

will be justified or you will be able to explain to them why as much as you appreciate the support they can relax and it won't come across as you covering for her and making excuses. Because right now that's what it sounds like to them. and it won't come across as you covering for her and making excuses. Right. Because right now, that's what it sounds like to them. Yes, it is. And their other friends are a lot more intense, like no bullshit. So, you know, what is going on with this?

So, I think that would be good for some action, for sure. Yeah, she needs to feel and see your frustration without it coming through just words that sound like accusations. And that is impossible to do via text or email. I mean, when someone sends you a long text, you know you're in trouble. Yeah, that's true.

It's like, oh God. What long text has ever in the history of text been great news? If you're out there, let me know. The long good morning text when you're a kid. They get to scroll, like, fuck, holy shit. Never. And yet we are so quick to just,

like, and then, you know, and get so frustrated when we don't feel heard or seen via text message. First of all, you know, can't feel seen via text. They're just reading. So that's my biggest advice and biggest takeaway of this call is stop doing that. And I think when, you know, remember that, especially when it comes to your relationship and when you get married, like don't be fighting with your partner via text. You know, if things escalate, I'll talk to you when we get home. I love

you. That's all you need to know right now. Yeah. We'll get this fixed. Thank you. So, all right. Thank you. Well, I am dying to know what happens. Okay, I'll give you an update. We can have, also, if you wanna have this conversation together with her on a Zoom with us, we will mediate it.

Okay. Would love to, oh my God. She'd be like, hey, this sounds crazy. That I would love to do. Because hopefully, after you have this conversation with her, she says something like, you know what? I see where you're coming from. I have definitely been a little preoccupied with my own love story. But I probably could have been a better friend. But I tell you what, if you want her to try to empathize with you, you know what a great trick is? Is to you define something where you could acknowledge

a moment where you wish you could have done something differently to her. Or you know what I'm saying? It's like a peace offering. Seeing this now, I wish I could have done this differently. But again, the goal of your conversation when you speak to her is to communicate to her how important your friendship is and how much it means to you and how it is different than your other friendships and that you are afraid of that of

losing that. That's the goal. The goal isn't to call her up and yell at her. Yeah. And to scold her. We have to communicate that as adults, you know, because when we get yelled at and we get lectured, we just turn into children, all of us. We go to our kind of subconscious childlike brain and it's just like, I didn't do that or yeah, but you did this and it's just, you know, it's like, am I talking to adults or are these six-year-olds texting or, you know, 12-year-olds or are these adult women, you know? You probably can't tell the difference in most, you know, text

conversations. So, all right. Thank you. All right, well, can't wait to find out how it goes. Thank you. All right, good luck. This show is brought to you by BetterHelp. Well, listen, we talk about therapy a lot on this show. I mean, almost every person who calls in, we're always recommending therapy to help them deal with whatever issue they're dealing with. Listen, it's always great to just talk out your issues with a mental health professional that BetterHelp can bring to you at your convenience. What's so great about BetterHelp is they're helping break down some of those barriers that are causing people to avoid in-start therapy altogether. Whether it's the

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Good, thanks. How are you? I'm good. What's your name? My name is Emma and I'm 27. How can we help, Emma? I recently had the first month of a great relationship and it ended because of my sexual history, namely a threesome that I had. Okay, so you met a guy,

you've been dating for about a month. Yeah. And as part as the first month dating of eventually you get to the whole like oral history of your dating history, yours included a threesome from the past. Yeah, from about two and a half years before I met him. And he decided that he couldn't possibly

date someone like you anymore. Yeah, pretty much. Well, I mean, I guess the short answer is good. I mean, you know what I'm saying? Like the short answer is, is you found very quickly his open-mindedness, where you guys are sexually, how sexually compatible you are.

You learned that about yourself. I don't know, we'll talk more. This is regardless if you ever wanna have another threesome, but clearly you are someone who is at least open to try a new thing sexually, and when it comes to a committed monogamous relationship, whether there are threesomes included or not, and most don't, you might be open to trying and exploring new things because after fucking for the same person for like so many years it gets a little vanilla and

he is deeply offended that you had a, you know, you know what I'm saying? So you learned a lot about him by this decision and as much as you feel judged, as much as you feel upset, and as much as you might feel like you want him to better understand why he shouldn't be mad, the fact that he handled it this way is incredibly revealing for a guy you've only known for four weeks.

Yeah, for sure. So without me knowing any more information, I think it's important that you recognize that. Yeah, and I think a detail that is important to include is that this threesome was with two of my superiors at work that happened on a conference. And so it was kind of, I think the professionalism piece of it

has been important to him as well. I made him question my judgment. But at the same time, this happened a couple of years ago. I was in my early 20s. I was very single. And it was just one of those situations that I found myself in. I've always kind of wanted to have a threesome. And so I was like, well, now's the time. And was it two men?

No, no, a man and a woman. Okay. I was curious. Only because had was it two men? No, no a man and a woman. Okay. I was curious Only because like had it been two men. I actually I'm a Weirdly enough. I'm slightly less critical of him because like two women, you know, your typical like horny guy would be But like two guys are deeply offended like yours, you know, you know what I'm saying? Like yeah, that would have looked worse on his resume if he judged you even more for two guys But what was the last time you spoke with him?

So I'm currently on vacation right now with my parents and so he dropped me off at the airport on Saturday morning 4 a.m Kiss me. Goodbye And then three days later sent me a text saying that he couldn't see himself dating somebody who had made the choices that I have made. Oh my god. So we last spoke about two days ago. He ended it in a text. And we were kind of going back and forth over text and I just said, like, let's just table this. Like, this is not an efficient way to communicate. And I said, maybe let's talk when I get home. But for now, I just, I don't want to talk to you for the rest of my trip.

And how old is he? 33. How old are you? I'm 27. And what was like the first few weeks like? It was like amazing. Like I thought that I had met the right person finally. Like we were spending a ton of time together, going on like good dates, spent the weekend

away together and we're talking a lot about the future. And I really felt, and we were both talking in this way, like, you know, I'd found the right person for me. Like we were, he listened to me so well, he was so considerate of me. He was coming to support me in events at work. And yeah, I just really felt like he was the right person. What do you do for work?

What does he do for work? I'm a teacher, he's a lawyer. How did this come up? Like, what was the conversation that brought this up? I think it was just kind of like you said, early in dating, you know, you talk about where you've been and who you've been with and what you've done.

And I think we just were talking about threesomes. And I said that I had had one and then Well yeah, but how did the topic of threesomes get brought up? Like, did you ask him if it are a threesome or vice versa? That's kind of important. I'm curious. I don't remember exactly. I think it was kind of a conversation of like, you know, like where's the weirdest place you've had sex? Like just kind of like how naughty have

you been in your life? And it was just one of the questions of that conversation. What was the naughtiest thing you learned about him? Well, he has had like a huge number of sexual partners. Or, I mean, not to put any judgment on that as well. But he has been loose with his dick. Yeah, for sure, for sure. And I think that's something that's frustrating me as well, is a lot of his experiences came from his mid-early 20s.

And in the last couple years, he's gotten to the point where you realize you don't wanna have sex, it makes you feel shitty you know, he's gotten to the point where you realize you don't want to have sex that makes you feel shitty anymore. So he's weaned off of that. And I feel like I've arrived at that too, but he's about six years older than me. So it's just like, me having that realization has happened more recently. And so he sees this as being like recent history and very telling of my character, which I don't feel like it's still is a choice that I would make today. How is this telling of your character, which I don't feel like it still is a choice that I would make today at 27.

How is this telling of your character? What is your character? I mean, like, that's what I, well, because it's the colleagues, because you. Yeah, I think so. I mean, I don't have a lot of experience with threesomes, you know,

but like, short of you going out and just propositioning fucking random strangers, like you kinda need to know them, you know? Don't you? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it was a one-time thing. It's the only time I've ever done it. And it was just kind of one of those things I've always been curious about and I found

myself in that situation. So I was like, well, you know, fuck it. Do you even think of it as a mistake? I just think of it as something I've done. No, I don't think of it as a mistake. Okay. Well, that's important that you know that because I don't want you to apologize

for something that you don't think is a mistake. Because part of it, like, you know, I don't know if you have any plans on trying to communicate with him afterwards when you get back from the trip or speak your piece, but let's say, for example, this wasn't a threesome. Let's say this conversation was about like, hey, there's something I want to tell you, like I did something in my past and like kind of fucked up, but like I definitely learned a lot from it, but you know, like I did want to tell you, but like it, you know, that in itself is a normal conversation.

We've all made mistakes. We've had to apologize. We've had regret. Part of life is, you know, being, like you said, trial and error, learning some things, you know, maybe having a low character moment. I'm not suggesting what you did was, and then acknowledging what you learned from it.

And the fact that you told this story, and without any context, he's decided to judge you and tell you what it says about your character and who you are as a person, without any consideration that maybe this is something like you said, was part of like who you are and your journey. And like, he might not have had a threesome with coworkers, but you know, hey, it's 2024.

And is he willing to say that every sexual experience he's ever had with a woman out at bars drinking alcohol that maybe, you know, if he went back and did it like an inventory or reflection that he might have to say to even someone, even with he had the best of intentions, like, hey, you know, sorry if I came around, it was a little crass. You know, did he, did he, every woman that he hooked up with,

was he emotionally considerate to that vulnerability of them, you know, getting naked in front of him? Was he so considerate of their feelings to make sure that if he was having sex with women, that they were on the emotional same page and that he didn't leave anyone feeling let on, whether he intended to or not, you know? And maybe it could have required better communication,

but is he 100% certain that with all of his sex, that he did it all right and he didn't make any mistakes and that he hasn't learned anything from that? Well, and that's the thing too, is before I left, I was kind of asking more questions about just the number of partners he's had and what kind of that motivation was and how that's different now in order to protect myself as well. And he said, he was like, you know, like I would just invite them over, they would show up, we would have sex, it was great.

And listening to him and finding out more information about that, being on the other side of it, because we've had some long conversations about my history and things he's unhappy with. And hearing it, I was like, okay, this is kind of detached, this isn't who you are now. And I can, I can see that, you know, and I can see that you're past that point. And I feel like I'm past this point. Like I probably wouldn't make that. Well, I wouldn't make that choice today, you know, but it was something that I've wanted to do in my life. And I was single and I was like, well, you know, you might as well do it now. So yeah, being on the other side of like the not cross examination, but like, you know, kind of when you're asking questions about things that stick out from a

partner's past, I was like, you know, I I can feel comfortable with this. Like I get it. I've been there. You make mistake or you make different choices in your early twenties than you do as you grow up. Yeah. Did you take any pictures with this guy? No. Oh.

You really want to see him? I have pictures of him. Yeah, I want to see it. I want to see a pic. I want to see what this Judgy McGoo looks like. I mean, again, this guy, he's a hypocrite. Like how this guy's out there was an absolute fuck boy I wanna see what this Judgy McGoo looks like. I mean, again, he's a hypocrite. This guy's out there was an absolute fuck boy

for a long period of time. And I am not accusing him of anything nefarious, but again, you can't have that much meaningless sex without risking leading someone on accidentally. I just put a picture in the chat. You could do better. Did you deliberately send me a bad picture of him? That's the picture I was sending all my girlfriends. I thought he looked cute in that picture.

Cute, maybe. A little goofy. I mean, I'm being mean, you know. Yeah, yeah. Well, how can I help being mean, you know? Yeah, yeah. Well, how can I help? Like, what were you hoping to accomplish with this call? Are you wondering if you should reach out to him afterward?

And if so, what you should say? Like, where could I be the most helpful? So, I guess I have a couple questions specifically related to him. So, where we left things is just I said, I don't want to text about this. I'm on vacation. I'm going to enjoy my trip. And I said, I'll text you when I'm home and maybe we can talk. Because I what hurt me was that he ended it in a text message. I found that really hurtful because we have had a very, like a pretty intimate relationship, like we've built some rapport for sure. And so I want to know how going into that

conversation, if I should have that conversation and going into it, how should I approach it? And then my other question is kind of like moving forward and dating. Do I need to think of this as a stain on my resume? I think I am kind of a person who can have a tendency to overshare? Should I approach my history differently with future partners so that I can hopefully find somebody who is gonna wanna be with me? Well, I'm gonna answer your second question first.

And the answer to your second question, I'm gonna go back to what I said first, is you have to acknowledge the information you learned about him from how he handled this. And I know that's very hard to do because he's making you feel judged and he is judging you and he is telling you that you're not good enough of him

and suggesting that you fucked up and made a mistake and you should feel regret and remorse and blah, blah, blah and that you don't, that even, you know, blah, you know, all these things. And that's why I asked, do you think it was a mistake? And you don't, and you shouldn't. Listen, threesomes aren't for everyone. Being sexually adventurous isn't for everyone.

You also learned that he was a hypocrite. Also, maybe a little sexist. Not even maybe. You mean to tell me he has no buddies who've had a threesome? Yeah, I mean, I'm sure he has. No bros? He does have friends, yeah.

And you think to tell me he wouldn't be friends with them? Because to be clear, this guy's like, I can't have you in my circle. Like, I can't surround myself with someone who makes poor choices like that. And he can't say, oh, well, no, but like, this is about love and about potential marriage. I mean, are you hanging out with men

who you question their judgment? Like, it's hugely hypocritical and sexist. And it's pretty safe to say he is judging you more because you're a woman. Unless you can guarantee that he doesn't associate with anyone, man or woman, if they've ever had a threesome with a colleague. And then immediately if he finds it out,

he would break up with that friend the same way he broke up with you. I feel like, and I'm curious for your thoughts of this as a man, I worry, I wonder how much of this is maybe coming from insecurity. And in my experience, men I think get a little bit freaked out if they think that the woman they're dating has more or more diverse experience than them. Can you speak to that a little bit? Um, not really.

Or from your experience as a man, I guess? I have never... Listen, I know people have a lot of different opinions about me and probably my even sexual history, especially if they learned about me on The Bachelor because, you know, for Bachelor World, I was one of the more like sexualized characters on their show and like conversations around sex happened because of me. But I have definitely always been a quality over quantity type of person. I'm not an angel by any stretch of the imagination. But put it this way, when I went on The Bachelorette, I was 33. And one of the dates on that season, which I actually wasn't on because I don't want to one-date, it was a lie detector

test. And one of the questions of the lie detector test was, had you slept with more than 20 people? And I remember all the, most of the guys like failed. And I, at that point in my life, I needed less, all I needed was my two hands to count. And that's just because I was mostly in serious relationships in my twenties, you know. It wasn't, where was I going with this?

I guess my point is, it's like, I've always been very confident and adventurous when it comes to sex, and I've always, you know, I've been adventurous with sex, and therefore I have been attracted to women who also have, and I've never had a woman make me feel inadequate or less experienced, and that's not because I knew they had less experience

than me, you know what I'm saying? Because there was a point in my life, in my mid-30s, I was never been the whole how many people have you slept with type of thing. But had I had that conversation with a lot of people I had dated in my early 30s, chances are I would have had a smaller number than them. And that just never bothered me.

And that's just me. And unfortunately, I don't think that is the case for a lot of men. So I can't really speak to that. How would you suggest that I talk about, do I talk about this going forward in dating? Like is this a deal breaker? I don't think you should hide it.

I don't think you should lie about it. I don't think you should let this guy make you feel like you did something wrong. I'm not saying you go and brag about it and talk about it on a first date. Do you need to tell men this? No, like you had a threesome years ago. I think going over your sexual history

when you start dating, eventually needs to happen at some point. But like, Nellie and I don't know every detail of our past. We didn't sit there and go, all right, well tell me everybody, tell me every fucking detail. Questions have been asked, answers have been given. But it was like on a do you wanna know basis. So you don't owe it to anyone to be like,

I need to tell you something. You don't. But if someone says, hey, like, all right, let's get into the whole like, tell me about your past. Like, what are you into? Have you ever had a threesome? If you get asked a question, I think you're honest. And now next time that comes up, you can be like,

well, to be honest, I'm a little reluctant saying this because I said this to one person, they broke up with me. You can scare the shit out of them, like you're about to tell them that you like it when men pee on your face. And then you can be like, well, I had a threesome. And then most guys are gonna be like, what? You know what I'm saying?

Like you can scare them. But no, I don't think you should hide it. It's nothing you should be ashamed of. You did nothing wrong. And I can't stress enough that you learned way more about him, about how he handled this than he's ever learned about you. And you have way more reasons to judge him for his character

than he has to judge you for yours. And you're right. You know, maybe this is a projection. Maybe this is more about him feeling inadequate, knowing that maybe he's thought and tried and wished he could have a threesome, but no, he just doesn't have the sexual prowess to pull it off.

I don't know. We can only speculate. So, and I think that's the most important thing I want you to take from this conversation, is that as much as he has tried to judge you, that you, that's a him problem, really not a a you problem and you have only dated him for a month and whatever excitement that you felt about him and the relationship in the first month it's only been a month clearly you had a lot more to learn and you learned very

quickly that he is hypocritical judgmental and sexist yeah and if you you know we're on a dating app and a guy in his bio said, I'm a little hypocritical, slightly sexist and judgmental, you would have just kept on swiping. Yeah. Yeah. It's just too bad because I felt like we did have, I guess transitioning into my next question, which is do I have this breakup conversation with him?

Because we haven't really talked. He's just texted me. What would you want to say? I don't know. I think he's going to regret this. I think that we could have been a good couple. And I think if he would just get out of his own way and let me continue to develop a relationship with him, I think that it could have worked out really well for us. I saw a lot of really good compatibility indicators between us. We had very good chemistry as well. But I want to let him know how hurtful it was for him to have done this in a text because he

approached it so altruistically. Like, you know, I just I need to tell you this now so that it's not hanging between us all week and blah blah blah. And I'm like, I know that you dumped me in a text because you didn't want to think about it this week. Like you just wanted this packed off on your Sunday afternoon. And so I kind of want to make that point, but I know that's just probably coming from me feeling hurt. It probably wouldn't- Well, you have the right to speak your piece and defend yourself and say what you want,

you know? I just caution you on what you can expect from that conversation. I don't think anyone should ever say you're going to regret this. Let them realize it. You saying it Takes away your power so much, right? You know It's something they're gonna have to realize Down the road and then you know they say the best revenge is living well, you know

I always get a kick out of people like I'm a I'm a resilient person I have been through a lot a lot of of that shit that I've been through as public and people know about it, a lot of it is not. But I always keep fucking grinding, I keep going. And I'm living my best life. And I couldn't be happier with remember Matt. And I have no idea what exes of mine, how they see our relationship, like the past, or they look at me now.

But I know, I know I have no regrets. I know I don't look back and I know my life looks great. And I'm hoping for all my exes that I'm not a thot in the world. But it's just only to say that if I do come up, I'm giving them very little to work with when it comes to feeling like my life got worse after I left them in my life, or they left me, or

that we just stopped hanging out. My life definitely did not get worse from past relationships. My life has only gotten better from past relationships, and that is evident by how I've lived my life. And so you will never get the satisfaction of hearing him say that most likely. So I caution you to not say that to him. You will never get the satisfaction that you think you're going to get by saying this. It'll make you feel worse. That being said, if you want to reach out to him and communicate your frustration, you have every right to do that. But you should go in there with very little expectations. frustration, you have every right to do that. But you should go in there with very little expectations. And I think you should be very measured

and when you do that, and you should remain calm, and you should almost write down your points that you wanted to make. And then the main point is, it's like, listen, it was really, use words like disappointed, hurt, sad, frustrated. It was really disappointed to have you, one, if you wanted to end this thing, fine.

I was really excited about our potential, but the fact that you chose to go about this via text, honestly, it was disappointing to learn that that's how you handled difficult conversations. That's a great way of saying that, right? You could say, you breaking up with me over text showed who you are as a person, you know? And that sounds almost like retaliatory.

You could just say that I was really disappointed to learn because that's what he, you know, use his language. I learned this about you. I don't know if I can move forward knowing what I know now about you. Well, I'm really disappointed to find out that like you handle difficult situations via text messages. And you know, and you just say that. Furthermore, like that whole conversation when I was opening

up and vulnerable to you, like is really disappointing. The first thing you decided to do was judge me for past experiences because we both shared past experiences about things that we did when we were younger to communicate, you know, where we have gotten to where we are now. And while I don't necessarily regret that decision, I have learned a lot from that decision. And you decided to, decided that defined me entirely as a person without any consideration into how your actions,

what your actions have said about you. But I was willing to show you grace and you decided to just show me judgment. Yeah. And I guess that's really- And even, cause we had a whole conversation about this probably a week after it first came up. And I felt like what was important to explain to him was

how are my choices different now? So that was the conversation we had about it is because he was worried about my boundaries in general, which I would say, you know, I wish your podcast existed when I was 19 or 21 when I was younger and going through these things and didn't have good boundaries. But I was talking about like, this is how I set better boundaries now. Like this is what my relationships in the last two years have looked like. This is how it's different. I've asked for what I've needed. I've left relationships when I

haven't gotten that like, and I just feel like he can't move on from this one isolated incident from years ago. And so then when I kind of replied to him, would reply to his texts, like I felt upset. And, and then he came back with like, I think you have like insecurity issues and I think you have validation. Do you need to be validated or whatever? He said this to you?

And you're a people pleaser, yeah. And I was like, yeah, I mean, we all need to be validated. Like that's a human experience is looking for validation. And like, of course I am a people pleaser, but like I also recognize these things about myself. So I felt like he kind of, like I wanted to defend or respond to those things he said to me.

I mean, what do you think it says, what did all the meaningless hookups that you had, why did you do that? Was that not for validation? Yeah, yeah, so I haven't really said myself because I didn't really respond to that in the initial text exchange. I would ask him, how many names of women you've had sex with do you not remember?

Yeah, that would be a good question to ask him. Yeah. But I don't know, do I bother trying to defend myself or do I just accept that this is over and let it die? What's the most graceful way to go about this? The most graceful thing is just to move on. Yeah. But doesn't mean you shouldn't. Listen, I'm not telling you not to. I think it makes a lot of sense for you to get back from this vacation and call him up and speak your piece. Your expectations

shouldn't be to, well, one, I mean, even if you called him up and said all the things you said, and let's say he responded with like, you know, you're right, I got caught up, I shouldn't have judged you, can we get back on the same page? What would you do? And that's all he said. That's all he said. I don't know. Like, I do really want to be with him, but I feel like I've started the acceptance process of it.

I think seeing that- It is not, it's not registering with you what this says about him as a person yet. Yeah. You're, you are, you are, you still see him in these rose colored glasses. Yeah. I'll really be interested in what you think about him

when you listen to this episode back. Yeah, I will be too, I guess. Because again, everything I know about him is from your words. Keep in mind. Right. In the funny picture you showed me. I mean, he's a handsome enough guy, but he's this... Yeah, this guy is... You can do better.

Thanks, Nick. Mostly because of what I know about how judgmental he is. Yeah. Again, and sexist. I'm gonna go ahead and say that again. I'm gonna go ahead and say that again. I'm gonna go ahead and say that again. I'm gonna go ahead and say that again. I'm gonna go ahead and say that again. I'm gonna go ahead and say that again. I'm gonna go ahead and say that again. I'm gonna go ahead and say that again. I'm gonna go ahead and say that again. I'm gonna go ahead and say that again. I'm gonna go ahead and say that again. I'm gonna go ahead and say that again.

I'm gonna go ahead and say that again. I'm gonna go ahead and say that again. I'm gonna go ahead and say that again. I'm gonna go ahead and say that again. I'm gonna go ahead and say that again. I'm gonna go ahead and say that again. I'm gonna go ahead and say that again. I'm gonna go ahead and say that again.

I'm gonna go ahead and say that again. I'm gonna go ahead and say that again. I'm gonna go ahead and say that again. I'm gonna go ahead and say that again. I'm gonna go ahead and say that again. I'm gonna go ahead and say that again. I'm gonna go ahead and say that again. I'm gonna go ahead and say that again.

I'm gonna go ahead and say that again. I'm gonna go ahead and say that again. I'm gonna go ahead and say that again. I'm gonna go ahead and say that again. I'm gonna go ahead and say that again. I'm gonna go ahead and say that again. I'm gonna go ahead and say that again. part of my history was making me feel really nervous about anything else I had to bring up. And I guess I wouldn't want to feel that way in a relationship with a person. He's not your person. It seems pretty clear to me. And he would need to do a lot of work. And quite honestly, there's, you know, I hate overusing words that are overused, but there's a lot of projecting going on here, it sounds like, and not a therapist, but just a guess on my part. You know, if anyone needs to do a lot of work, on here, it sounds like, and not a therapist, but just a guess on my part. If anyone needs to do a lot of work,

it's people who are comfortable with who they are and don't require a validation and have done the work on themselves, they're not judgy like he is. They don't do what he just did. They're not triggered by hearing about someone having a threesome, you know, especially if they, you know, it'd be one thing if you told me like, you know, I was

half expecting you to be like, you know, he's really a nice guy, but he's super religious. He's old school. I'm not that religious, but like he was cool with that, but he is pretty conservative and like, no, this guy had a whole like fuckboy era of, yeah, I just fight girls over, they didn't fuck me, I couldn't even help myself, my dick's so good. Like, he doesn't realize how much of a douchebag he sounded like. And I'm not saying every guy who goes through a fuckboy era

is doing it because they're insecure, but like you said, like we've all done things for, all of us, you know? That's why we like to get hit on, even by people we're not interested in's why we like to get hit on, even by people we're not interested in. We just like to know we can. And so it sounds like he has the work to do.

And that's not for you to say, by the way. So if you were- I should just focus on my own experience and I felt hurt by this. Yes. I really liked you and I wish that you would have considered... It felt like he didn't consider my feelings in sending this text.

It felt like one more thing to cross off is Sunday afternoon to-do list. Like close that book, start the week fresh kind of thing. If you are gonna reach out to him and speak your piece, I want you to be calm and measured and thoughtful and not easily triggered. Cause it's kind of showing him through your actions, just like how mature you are in handling this.

And just calmly pointed out, it's just like it was incredibly disappointing to see you handle things the way you did. I can't tell you how to think about me sharing my past, but the fact that you chose to let it define who you think I am as a person without any consideration for what I might have learned from that experience. And again, I think you point out,

like we both share a lot about our sexual past. And we both shared a lot about things that, you know, things we did in the past that we might not do present day. It was disappointing for me to show you that grace and for you to only show me judgment. That's a really good line. Because- Yeah, okay. I'll use your words.

And I think you just say that, and you leave it at that. And you can probably even send that in a text. Yeah. I felt like the things that he was bringing up once I responded to him, like I was kind of like, you know, like, fuck that. Like, it's so inconsiderate for you to have texted me that. So I didn't just accept it. And I felt like then he right away started using the things that I've said. You know, I worry that I am a people pleaser and I worry about.

And you could say, yeah. I felt like that got thrown right in my face the second I was like, how dare you text me? I'm so incensed. And you could say furthermore, additionally to that, getting these text messages referring to things like to have you weaponize my vulnerability and sharing my past with you against me

only for you to therapy me and telling me who I am as a person was very hurtful. I had an amazing time getting to know you. I really saw potential in our connection and it was just really upsetting for having things end the way they did and have you communicate the way you did it. Okay, okay, thank you.

Now I feel like I have some things to say going into this conversation next week. Can you remember that or do we have to write it down? If you could write it down, that would be even better. Throw it at me and then I'll email it to you. We both share a lot about our past and choices we've made that we wouldn't necessarily make present day. And it was just very frustrating

for you to only show me judgment while I was showing you grace. Additionally, you telling me how much validation you think I need. And that I'm a people pleaser and I don't have good boundaries. Yeah, I shared that with you because I wanted to be vulnerable with you

and I want you to understand both not only my strengths, but even my weaknesses and for you to weaponize that and further judge me was just really disappointed and it's not the person I really grown to care about these past few weeks. I'm sorry things ended the way they did, but I wish you all the best. I mean, I would honestly just send that. You would just text that? Yeah. Because I think you want to say more, but I don't think you should. Read it back to me.

And I'm worried if we have a conversation, he's just gonna... He knows where the low blows are. And I just don't think I want to sit through a litigation of my own insecurities. Be proud of your insecurities. Again, what I said when this call first started, you're still seeing him through rose-colored glasses and you're not seeing him for the judgy, emotionally immature, probably insecure. The guy who sent you that, I'm not trying to be a dick, I'm really not, I mean I am Team U, but that guy, that selfie that you sent me,

that guy has a lot to be insecure about. I thought that was the best picture of him. That's too bad, yeah. He's an all right looking guy, but that guy's been rejected by women before, plenty of times. That guy is not, is he the most charismatic man you've ever seen?

Clearly not. I mean, a guy who's gonna break up with you because you had a threesome, like there are some deep rooted insecurities going on there that he clearly hasn't dealt with. Yeah. And he's hasn't dealt with. He's using some buzzwords. Is he in therapy?

No. He's not in therapy. Even better. Hilarious. Clearly, he's using buzzwords that he's learned on the internet through his friends and just like therapy speak and he's putting his lawyer hat on and fucking doing that shit. This is not a guy you need to be sad about. You learned so much about him through this.

That you could have learned much in, no, not I guess so. Yeah, I did learn about him. How good was the sex? Very, very good. Oh, that's too bad. Is it, was it that irreplaceable? Probably not irreplaceable.

What was so good about it? I am curious, because we always hear from women who talk about how bad the sex is or whatever, like I'm curious, what made you feel like you were enjoying yourself? What was so unique about it is I found it a lot more intimate than other sex I've had, like the way that we would talk to each other. Like the last time I saw him, he was telling me he was like, like, while we were having sex, he was like, I want to give you a house, I want to give you a baby, like I want to just have a life with you. And it was so intimate. I was like crying.

I mean, but then that's a little intense. Yeah, I know. That's why I was like, oh, this has to be it. Because if this isn't it, like, how could it feel this way? Well, I think there's a lot to learn here for you here. This was right before he I'm guessing Climaxed this is in the middle of sex. Yeah, yeah, then we'll say the craziest shit, you know, right before they climax He wants to buy you a house. He was do all this, you know, like, and it sounds like he's an emotional guy, you know, he's not, he's not, he does not make you feel like your best self.

He's not your person. And I'm not saying he, you know, he's going to be the last guy who judges you, but like your person is going to accept the fact that one, your person is going to appreciate that you enjoy sex and that you like exploring different sexual interests. Doesn't mean he's gonna want to have a threesome or anything like that, but he will appreciate that about you. And they also won't judge you for the fact that you have made decisions in the past that you might not make in the future and will appreciate your willingness to have learned from those decisions.

Yeah. And a guy saying anything during sex could not be the most meaningless thing ever. Whatever men say to you immediately after they climax, if he says, I still want to buy you a house right after we climax, then you're working with something. Okay, well, it felt very special to me, but... I understand, but I'm just giving you some insider baseball here, you know, that when you're naked with a man, and when a man's naked and he's, you know, standing at attention

and he's hot and heavy, anything that comes out of his mouth. I'm not, and they don't, that's the thing, what's crazy is like they could not be more sincere about what they think they're saying. They mean it when they say it. It's just that it's not them talking, it's some other entity. A lower part of their brain? Yeah, but truly, I, I'm not, yes. So, buyer beware about the things these people say to you

when you're having sex. And if you're basing a lot of your connection and attention by how, it's great to be connected via sex, but he gave you a lot of false hope. The more I learn. And so you gotta let all those good memories that you have that you're spending a lot of time thinking about right now and missing them, you need to spend way more time about just how hypocritical and again, I can't stress enough, sexist. This is zero chance he would unfriend a buddy for doing exactly what you did. Yeah, yeah, I guess so.

Can I ask you one more question? Yeah. I feel like, so this is probably the third or fourth time that I've gone on vacation, and I'm literally on a vacation with my middle-aged parents. Like I've been, the first couple of days I was taking care of this home, I'm like, oh, we're back in the room.

And I'm listening to a band with my parents. Like, I'm not out partying. I'm not in a bachelor party. It's not wild and crazy. But I feel like multiple times when I've gone on vacation and when guys are away from me for like three, four days, it's like a switch flips. Like this is, I've been broken up with multiple times because I've left the city for like a week. Is there a way that I can avoid that? Is that also just insecurity? Like what do you think is going on? Because it has been a pattern.

How long are these relationships that are ending when you go on vacation? Because again, this one. Like three weeks to a month is, yeah. Yeah, so maybe this bad timing. I think it's more they're using the vacations than excuse. And again, seeing this guy's picture, hearing, you know, talking with you,

hearing how you're seeing this relationship versus how I'm hearing this relationship, there is a disconnect. And you need to get better at seeing these relations for what they are. And I get it, I get getting excited about someone. And I understand just how frustrating dating can can be and we do get excited about someone The last thing you want to do is start nitpicking it

But I think you are I think you need to slow yourself down a little bit when you get excited about these guys I think you have a lot to offer in relationships And I think you have to see that inside not to sound all corny But like you truly have to know that you are a catch. And I think you're maybe, and how quickly are you sleeping with these guys? That's something I'm working on. This guy I slept with on the third date.

And again, no judgment. Naya and I hooked up the first night. But nevertheless, when you introduce sex in a relationship early on, it changes the dynamic. It just does. That's just a fact. And it is going to require an extra layer of emotional maturity, specifically for men. And so if you do really like a guy, you're just doing yourself a favor by slowing things

down sexually so that you give yourself an opportunity to truly get to know who they are. Yeah. One thing I've been trying to say myself. This is not about slowing, yeah. This is not about them judging you or thinking of you differently. This is so that you can have a clear understanding of who they are and that you don't get emotionally bonded to them for reasons outside of just what you're learning about.

Because again, sex is a very powerful thing that affects our point of view and gets us attached to people. Just because sex is intimate, you're naked, you're exchanging fluids, like you should feel connected to someone when that happens. But we're having more and more meaningless sex that we're confusing our connection with these people. So if you're having sex on the third date, you might be falling for men that you wouldn't be falling for otherwise.

Yeah, one thing I've tried to tell myself is like, I've never regretted not sleeping with someone, and I have regretted sleeping with some people. So, keeping that in mind, like I'm trying to set up the situations better so it's easier not to sleep together. Like even with this guy, our second date was supposed to be kind of a Netflix and chill and I thought about it and I sexed him I was like actually can you take me on a date tonight?

Like I don't want to just have you over at my house. Yeah So now the only the only advice I have to you about like vacations is like the next time you meet a guy You like and you got a vacation lined up. Maybe use that as like a personal, like I'm deaf, we're definitely not, don't tell him that, don't be like, oh, who could be over? But just like, all right, I'm going on vacation in six weeks, I'm definitely not sleeping with this guy until after the vacation.

I guarantee you, they don't break up with you before that. Men are visual creatures and they fall in love by missing you, not sex. And so he didn't have to miss you because he knew what it was like to have sex with you. Next time you meet a guy, you don't have sex with him. Every time he sees you, he wants to have sex with you more and more.

He'll wait forever. Men will wait for fucking ever. That's hard advice to take. Dangle the carrot, I'm just saying. I said this to you and any woman listening, a guy has never dated a woman or committed to a woman because of sex. Sex will not convince him, it won't separate you, you won't distinguish yourself, keep the mystery going. And if you have sex and he loves having sex with you, that like at the right time will will do the appropriate thing and keep him around. But try to make sure you have an emotional connection. And again, I am not sex shaming

anyone who has sex early. But as I point out in my best selling book, I own a copy, don't worry. But there's that line in there. If you're going to have sex in hookup culture, have sex because you want to have sex, not because you think it's going to do anything to your connection. Unless you are certain there is an emotional connection there without sex, only will sex help that emotional connection. But an emotional connection needs to exist and that takes time, much longer than a month. And so if you are saying, I'm having sex, then you have to be like, I wanna fuck.

I want to fuck and I don't care about what this person thinks of me. This is about me. I am being selfish. I am doing this because I wanna get laid. And if you want, and that's how you feel, go fucking nuts. But if this is about someone you like,

you're interested, and you see potential in, you wanna build something with, then sex gets, you know, is a risk. It is, and that's a fact. And that has nothing to do with my opinions about sex, or being, it has nothing to do with sex positivity or sex negativity, that's just a fact. Yeah, okay.

All right. Yeah, thank you so much for your advice. Stop letting this guy make you feel less than. This is not the guy to let this do the, you know, this is. Yeah. But what you have learned, the takeaway is, is what you value when it comes to sex is someone who at least you wanna make love more than you wanna fuck a little bit more. You've done a lot of fucking, you haven't done much love making,

and this guy acted like he was making love to you. He wasn't, but he acted like it. And so you can learn that all the more reasons that you, maybe the fact that despite you might liking sex and things like that, that you value a more intimate sexual experience. And all men are capable of that. And again, I don't think this guy deserves

any brownie points for saying what he said to you because it was disingenuous. Because clearly he didn't want to buy you a house. You know? You know, it wasn't like, oh, I want to buy you a house and to carry you as long as you didn't have a threesome with coworkers. You know?

There wasn't like a unless, he was 100% committed, he was passionate, he was serious, but it was disingenuous. And the only way a man's gonna be able to do what you want when it comes to the type of sex that you want is to have an emotional connection. He has to care about you as a person, and he has to understand who you are.

He has to accept you for your strengths and your weaknesses, what this guy didn't do, and he has to still wanna buy you the house. And there are plenty of men out there who will do that, but they are too dumb and too emotionally weak to do it on their own, so you're gonna have to have the willpower to say no to your own needs,

and you're gonna have to say no to having sex for validation, which again, we've all done that, and I'm not judging you, I've done it, we've all done that. He's fucking done that. He's done that so many fucking times, he can't even remember their names. Yeah, yeah. So stop letting this guy making you feel less than.

Okay. You are on vacation and despite all this bullshit I talked about having a way to have sex, if you got laid on this vacation, we would applaud you from this household. I just met a cute army guy at the bar at lunch. Yeah, go have some safe sex. Yeah.

I'm not kidding. All right, I'll think about it. Well, go have some safe sex. Yeah. I'm not kidding. All right, I'll think about it. Well, go have fun. Stop, get this guy out of your head. If you're going to touch base with them, touch base when you get back. But this guy, what I'm hearing is not your guy. This is, you are seeing it through rose-colored glasses and you're giving him credit he does not deserve. And you are sticking to things that were disingenuous. Okay that helps a lot with helping me frame this

in my mind. So thank you and thank you for the advice of how to approach that conversation because I think we will we will have that conversation next week. You got to be very calm. He's gonna try to lawyer you. Okay. You have to be confident with what you are saying. You have to be confident with what you are saying. You have to feel it. You can't just be repeating my words. You have to see my words as your words. And you have to believe that you didn't deserve

to be treated the way you did. You have to see him as hypocritical. You have to see him as a little sexist and judgmental. And you can't see him as this super connected, emotional guy who wanted to make love and buy you a house because that's not who he is. This is who he is. Yeah, I guess the hard part is feeling like he

has categorized me as non-wife material and I feel like I am eventually wife material. To whoever who wants to marry you or wife material, what does that even mean? You know, just those old dated, outdated like tropes. Is that who you wanna be? You can't marry the girl who's had a threesome. Do you wanna be the 1950s housewife that is arm candy

that some guy eventually cheats on and has a mistress with they all did in the 50s, is that what you aspire to be? No, no, that's not it. So stop letting the idea of being that to someone be meaningful to you. You're going to be wife material of the person who accepts you for who you are, who sees you as like, I can't believe I got her. She's great.

She's done all these things. She's a human being. She's made mistakes. She can recognize that. She's learned from it. She's had some fun. She's not a fucking like, she's not a prude. She's fun. She's you know, like, you know, she's adventurous She's not crazy, but like boy like we have fun together

She is exciting and cool and yada yada yada Yeah, yeah, but you have to let men be willing to find that out about you without you Trying to show that to them. And you just have to seating yourself first. Okay, I'll be looking for her on this trip, that part of me, I guess. Okay, I'm gonna keep working on that. I feel like it's a muscle that you need to build,

similar to setting good boundaries. If you do go fuck this army guy, you gotta remember, I'm serious. When I'm getting, like I'm serious. This is about you having fun. This is about you being a sexually adventurous person. This is not about you giving a shit about what he thinks about you. Yeah. Okay. I'll try to accept your mind. If you do sleep with him and he, whatever he says about you or to you that's like, oh my God, you're so great.

I can't believe I met someone like you on vacation, blah, blah, blah. You just say, listen, buddy, I just rocked your world. That's why you're saying this shit. You don't really mean any of it. Calm down. You know, that's, that's, that's true. You got to, and as long as you see it for yourself first, you know, you got to start believing it first.

So are you in therapy? No, I'm not, but it is something that I had on my like 2024 goals. Well, better help, give it a shot. Super easy and convenient. The right therapist for you, a good therapist, will help you hold yourself accountable for things that I think you struggle

holding yourself accountable for. Yeah, yeah, for sure. No, I've definitely caught that as well. A good therapist will help reaffirm some things that you need to, you know, believe in yourself. And a good therapist will not let you go down mental rabbit holes of self-doubt and insecurities so that you seek out attention in the wrong places. Okay. I'm going to look into that when I get home from this trip.

You didn't lose anything special, I can assure you with this guy. Yeah, I know, I guess. I feel on the other end of this conversation, I guess I feel differently about it than I did going into this conversation. Because I did, part of me did just want to be like, let me tell you all of the things that I have done in the last two years to be a better boundary setter and be less, require less validation, be more comfortable with myself. Like I wanted to like show in my resume of like, actually look, I think you have the wrong idea. So forget you said that and let's get back together. And now I feel I can see kind of what you're saying a lot more.

All right. So that's been very helpful. It's a work in progress. It won't happen overnight, but I promise you, when this episode comes out and you listen to it I'm guessing you will see my POV a little better than you see yours right now Okay, because you'll hear yourself talk about him and right now you're not hearing yourself talk about him Yeah, all right. Okay. All right. All right. Thank you. All right. Take care

Thank you so much. All right, Okay. All right. Thank you. All right, take care. Thank you so much. Have a great day. You too, bye bye. How's it going? Good, how are you? Good, what's your name? My name is Sage and I'm 27.

How can we help Sage? So my husband is a shopaholic and we are now 80K in debt. Okay, jeez. Is he aware of his problem? Yes. Unfortunately. Well, no, fortunately. Fortunately, but unfortunately because it hasn't really stopped. Okay. Well, I mean, this is a serious problem, right? This is not like some sort of like,

oh, like, it's not me going to like, now that I go into each other, I'm like, oh my God, we're spending too much money. This is like $80,000 in debt. Yeah. And I, so like 35 of it is unsecured. So like credit card, personal loan type stuff. And then 50,000 of it is auto loan. Some of that is my car, but he decided that he needed to sell his truck that was working just fine and go get a car that was like $40,000 that wasn't really in the budget, especially with the way rates are right now. And so yeah, it's been fun. Do you guys have kids? It's been interesting.

We do have a daughter, yes. Okay. Well, this is a very serious situation. Are you taking it seriously? Yeah, we have had, and so backstory, we've been married seven years. I think a lot of this started, my husband is type one diabetic.

And so when we were first married and everything, we got married young. And so with him being type one diabetic, we didn't have great insurance to start out. And so diabetic supplies in his insulin, everything is outrageous. And so that kind of started the debt, I feel like, because we were like not able to keep on top of that.

And then with his spending habits, cause he grew up with mom and dad's credit card, never ended. So. Gotcha. So what expectations do you guys have around like budgeting and things like that? So we meet every payday for budgets

and I have like an Excel sheet that we go through and like I write down like all of our balances that we have. I take money from his pay stuff or paycheck every time so that I know that are the bills that we need to pay are getting paid. But I mean, then he has some leftover and it's been hard because I don't wanna be like a mother to him and be like, oh, yeah, we I need to take all of your cards, you only have X amount to spend on everything. I have tried that and it caused a lot of contention in our relationship. we've gone back to making sure we're meeting every payday, if not every week, but somehow

money keeps getting spent. And I, yeah. Well, what commerce, like where are we at in the addressing the problem with him? He is looking into going to therapy. Okay. And he's hesitant and not wanting to do that. And so it's hard because I can't make him go and do that if he doesn't want to. But I have told him, I'm like, it's getting to the point where I don't want to separate. I don't want to do any of that. Obviously, we have a kid. I love him. We've been married for seven years. I don't want anything to come between that. But it's getting to the point if things don't stop, it could get to that. And so it's like... Have you communicated that to him? And I think, yeah, I mean, I think you have to over communicate that. And he's, he needs to

believe it, you know, and you, and you kind of say it and like, again, you lead with love, you know, like you said, I love you, but like, this is breaking my heart because you're, you're, you're putting me and our daughter at risk. You have a daughter, right? You say daughter? This could be her debt, you know? Like you're putting us in a situation that we might not possibly recover from.

And you have habits that clearly you seem to have a hard time controlling. And that's scary. It's scary that you can recognize you have a problem, but you're not willing to do whatever you can to stop it. And it's affecting us. Yeah. You know? Yeah, it's affecting us to the point now that-

It's your debt too. You're married. Yeah. You know? Yeah, yeah. And it's to the point now that, especially with the unsecured debt, that we can't afford to get out of the townhome

that we are currently in. And there's not room to grow our family in this small townhome. It's also not in a great area for where we're living. And so it's like, we don't really want my daughter and future kids grow up in this area. And so that makes it difficult. And so one of the reasons,

or one of the things that we have thought about, or I guess kind of I thought about, we've had conversations over the last couple months about it, but I've looked at doing surrogacy To get us out of this debt and then shred all of our cards and everything You would you would you would carry someone else's child for a paycheck. Yeah. Okay. Well listen, yes I I've always wanted to do surrogacy. Okay, but yeah I'm I know very almost nothing about this. I mean, now that I've been

fascinated on the other end, I think anyone willing to do that for a family who needs it are worthy of the title as hero. So, but if you're going to do it, I don't want you to do it to get out of debt. Right. I want you to do it because you're doing something noble for a family who needs that. I don't want you to have mixed feelings about that. And that's not going to solve your problem. You know as a mother that unnecessary or stress of any kind is one of the greatest risks of a pregnancy. And this problem that your husband has

isn't taking away your stress, but only adding that stress. So you being a surrogate during this very stressful period of time, and yeah, it could get you out of debt, but the problem that your husband has, how do you know he's not gonna spend the money you have coming in before it even comes in? Right.

You're thinking, oh, it might get us out of debt and he goes out and buys a fucking boat. Yeah, well, I mean, the one good thing is that we do have separate accounts and then one account where all the bills come out of, and so the money from that would be going straight to me, and so I don't think he I mean He would know that it's coming but he wouldn't see it if that makes sense Yeah, I mean listen, I think like at the end of the day what I said earlier you have to over communicate

We're an honest what kind of evaluation of where you're at. I love you with all my heart I want there's nothing I want more for us to spend the rest of our lives together. I want us to continue, I want us to grow our family. I want us to raise our kid together. But you are making decisions that are making that impossible for us to continue. And you're making me consider things I never wanted to consider in the first place.

But like my hands are tied because you were putting me and our daughter at risk and as much as I love you, I can't let that happen. And I need you to do everything in your power. If you can recognize you have a problem, I need you to start doing something about this problem. It sounds like it's an addiction. I'm not an addiction expert and there's other addictions other than alcoholism and drug addiction. Hi, I'm Adam. I'm a shopaholic, you know? Exactly. He needs to understand just how serious this is and how serious you are about it. You know?

And you say, I love you. I'm here for you. I'm here to support you. I'm doing whatever I can, but I can't have you risk this family and our safety. You having debt puts you at risk on so many levels. You pointed, you know, those direct levels, you know, with just debtor, creditors, limits your ability to move or upgrade and put yourself in maybe safer neighborhoods. Like what happens, you know, you can't predict the future,

but like it's, you don't want to be in debt, you know, when a tragedy happens, and tragedies often happen, you know, um, what happens when, you know, if something were to happen, you need some extra cash for your kid, you know, or something like that. I mean, it's a very serious thing. You should never feel like you said too much or you don't want to be a nag. I don't think you can over communicate this. Certainly, you know, again, I'm just some guy, not an expert, but I didn't, I definitely

think this, this, this challenge is worthy of you all. They're getting, getting soliciting other people's advice and experts in this field, especially, you know, when it comes to addicts, but it sounds like it sounds pretty serious to me. And I, I think you want to get ahead of it as much as you can. Well, I'm sorry you're going through this. It's okay. I mean, it is what it is. I wish it wasn't this, but not all I can do about it now.

So, well, no, there is, there is a lot you can do about it. And I know it feels a bit defeating, but that's the thing. Just don't, don't sit idly by. If you're going to go down, go down with a fight, so to speak, you know, Don't don't sit idly by if you're gonna go down go down with a fight so to speak, you know, right and Go down having no regrets because you're not gonna regret trying to help him out you the only way you're gonna regret this is is biting your tongue and doing nothing and letting

$80,000 turn into a hundred thousand dollars or a hundred twenty thousand dollars and then finally deciding to leave him Because he wasn't you know,, you need to lead with love but vocalize this as a very serious inflection point in your relationship. Yeah. And if he's not gonna do it for himself, he needs to do it for you and his kid and you're there to support, you're there to help him through it, but he needs to stop, you know, this can't be why I don't want to do therapy. If he can recognize he has a problem, he needs to do something about it because, you know, you're scaring me. You're, I go to bed worried every night about if we're going to be okay, you know, and I

can't have that. And I need you to do something about this. Yeah. All right. Well, again, sorry you're going through this. Please keep us posted. This is one of those calls where I feel like there's probably gonna be a lot of people listening

who relate to you. And if you learn anything in this journey and you're willing to share as an update about what you got right or wrong as you go through this, I think it would be very much appreciated by your audience. Yeah, I'll definitely keep you guys in the loop and let you know. All right. Thank you. Well, thank you. Take care.

Mm-hmm. All right, bye-bye. Okay. Thanks for listening. Don't forget, we'll be back tomorrow, live from the desert of Coachella for Reality Recap. And then this week, I'm going deeper. Gonna be wild. See you then. Bye. Whether you're looking to build a website for your business, your hobby, your podcast, or just for fun, Pear Networks is your go-to web hosting partner. Not only do we have the lowest domain price in the industry, starting at just $11, we've got hundreds of stunning website

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