The Viall Files - E751 RR - Diddy Security Footage, Golden Paradise, RHONJ, Harrison Butker, VPR Reunion, The Valley and SH

Episode Date: May 21, 2024

Welcome back to The Viall Files: Reality Recap Edition! Today, Elizabeth Wagmeister joins the household to chat about all things reality television. We talk about the ongoing Diddy allegations, including the recently released security camera footage (TW: DV, SA). We also talk about RHONJ coming back to our screens and what we think of this new season. Then, we talk about Summer House and how we feel about Kyle criticizing Amanda and Paige. Next, we talk about The Valley and the cast’s trip to Big Bear. Finally, we talk about the Vanderpump Rules Season 11 Reunion Part 1 and how we feel about Katie, Ariana, Scheana and Lala - and why we’re not excited for Jo to join Part 2.  “Theresa went to jail and then partied with Taylor at Coachella. That’s range.”  Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes. To Order Nick’s Book Go To: http://www.viallfiles.com  If you would like to get some texting advice send an email to [e-mail] with “Texting Office Hours” in the subject line! To advertise on the show, contact [e-mail] or visit https://www.advertisecast.com/TheViallFiles  THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: ZOA Energy - Get some Big Dwayne Energy and order ZOA Energy today. Available online and at a store near you. Find out where you can find it at https://www.ZOAEnergy.com and fine retailers like Amazon, 7-Eleven, Costco, Circle K and more. Sporting Smiles - You can check out their sale by using promo code Viall10 when you go to https://www.SportingSmiles.com  OUAI - Frizz-free up your schedule with OUAI. Go to https://www.theouai.com and enter promo code VIALL for 15% off any product. Apostrophe Skincare - Get your first visit for only $5 at https://www.Apostrophe.com/VIALL  when you use our code: VIALL. That’s a savings of $15! This code is only available to our listeners. OneSkin - OneSkin is the world's first skin longevity company. By focusing on the cellular aspects of aging, OneSkin keeps your skin looking and acting younger for longer. Get started today with 15% off using code VIALL at https://www.oneskin.co   Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @ewagmeister @joshcampbellcnn @nnataliejjoy @ciaracrobinson @alison.vandam @justinkaphillips @leahgsilberstein @dereklanerussell Timestamps: 00:00 - Intro 01:10 - Breastfeeding //sickness 02:19 - Icks 09:54 - Diddy Coverage (TW: DV, SA) 41:32 - Golden Bachelorette 53:04 - RHONJ 1:05:44 - Harrison Butker  1:10:52 - Summer House 1:38:13  - The Valley 1:47:48  - VPR Reunion 2:08:50 - Outro 

What's going on everybody? Welcome back to another exciting episode of the Vile Files Reality Recap Edition. I am your host, Nick, joined by the household. Everyone's here. We have so much to get into. What's going on everybody? We're finally back from our honeymoon. We're back in studio.

Yeah, it's been a long couple of weeks. Like we've had fun. It's been great. Ever since the wedding. And Nick got me sick. Yeah, I did. You did? Yeah, no, someone got me sick, but since we're in love, I got you sick.

Yeah. I wanted to share. You wanted to share. Yeah, unfortunately on the first day of our honeymoon, like I was like, I could feel my sinuses, like getting fucked with. And I'm like, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck. And I just kind of mentally tried not to let it get me down.

And then he kept trying to offer me the same drinks as him. And I was like, I feel like I shouldn't. I'm gonna get sick. He's like, what, you're gonna quarantine from me? I was like, I mean. She's like, ew, sick. And then she got sick anyways. But then like on the last day of our honeymoon, I felt better than she got sick, but we still had a good time.

And apparently what I have learned thus far, and Lea, you will realize this soon and I hope it doesn't affect you like it did me, but people say that women who are breastfeeding get much more sick than your partner because you're giving all of more sick than your partner, because you're giving all of your nutrients and your immunity and everything to your baby, and so you are weaker.

Does the same thing apply when you're pregnant? Maybe. I don't know. Maybe she's like, no! I don't know! There is this really... Google? Yeah, I will Google it, because I will say Danny and I don't know. There is this really, Google? Yeah, I will Google it because I will say Danny and I were both sick last weekend and he got way sicker than me. Oh.

But also, you know. I don't know. You know how men are with cold. Oh yeah. See Nick is the opposite. How are they? No, no, no, I would agree. Men are like absolute fucking babies when they get sick

but Nick is like, you wouldn't even he's sick. So I was on my honeymoon I was like, I'm not gonna let this get me down like it's all me You know the other hand I'm like fuck me up This is your fault. I kept cooking a river be like I can't kiss you cuz daddy got me sick It's all you know, it's all mental, you know, you gotta stay strong I did on my honeymoon finally realized what a true it mental, you know, you gotta stay strong. I did on my honeymoon, finally realized what a true ick is. I feel like the conversations around ick has been around for a while now.

Did Tink's actually coined the phrase, is it? Did she create it? Did she create the phrase? The ick. I thought it was on like Love Island. I felt like it was British. Oh, he's giving me the ick. Yeah.

I don't know. And then became a cultural phenomenon. And then you see it all over the internet. And it's just like, and then in like everything, every then you see it all over the internet and it's just like and then in like Everything every other word out there now that it becomes popular the internet It kind of gets co-opted and people kind of change the meeting and whatever and it gets watered down and diluted and now it's like Anything is an egg. It's just like oh, he didn't open the car door for me. It's like oh, he was rude It's but that's not a true egg. Let's those are like bare minimum things, you know, like he wasn't respectful or no

It's just like bare minimum. But a true ick I've discovered is when a guy does anything like dainty or feathery or light or like clumsy or, for example, we were in the pool at the hotel and where our seats were, were like on the opposite end of the pool entrance. But like we were right by the pool. So you can just kind of hop over the ledge in the pool instead of walking around in like the hot concrete.

So we did that. And when we got out, you had to like just kind of jump up, you know, over the pool wall. And I just like knew that Natalie like wanted me to just jump up and like hurdle it. And like Natalie went first and I turned around and I went and I slipped and I slipped back in the pool. And I looked out of just true fear that Nally saw this because knowing I'm like that was

an ick. I know like and I finally realized it's like that's what a true ick is. That's what you ladies are all saying when you say an ick is like when a guy does anything like just dainty or light or just clumsy or just anything that's like it's a tick tock video where she's above the water and she goes underwater and his little feet are just like yeah that's an egg you know like it's yeah treading water that's i realize now that that's what you ladies are meaning by an egg when we went over that speed bump and his butt came out of the sea and i just like floated in the air that that's what you ladies are meaning by an ick. When we went over that speed bump and his butt came out of the seat. And I just like floated in the air like that's an ick. Anytime he trips, I'm like, oh god. Get your shit together. What are you fucking tripping?

Like you have to, you can't do anything clumsy or you you know, or trip over yourself or just like slam the door in your face or anything. You can't fuck up that way. So do you think it's a valid it? That you slipped into the pool? Well, now that I understand what an ick is, yeah. I mean, sure. I didn't see it. And we got, yeah, I didn't see it.

Do I think icks are fair? No, I think guys are allowed to do clumsy fucking shit. And I think there's this idea that we're supposed to, again, I realize in that moment what the opposite of an Ick would have been for me to hurdle the pool wall and land like a superhero, ready to. Ick. Ick.

No, I just want to get out normally. Speaking of Icks, has anyone been watching the new season of Bridgerton? No. No. No, but I want to see that character. Because like there have been TikToks of like girls watching that,

of like not even real men, just like the male characters in Bridgerton. Of like, this is such an ick. What are you trying to do? Please stop. What are the men doing? And it's all those weird, I feel like it's either dainty or when they try to be like overly masculine.

Oh yeah. But trying too hard. Yeah, so we're not, can't be- It's a tight rope. It's a tight rope. Like make sure you don't walk funny or slip or fall or do anything feathery or light, but also don't try too hard.

You gotta thread the needle of just existing. It's a hard life. It is a hard life. We're always watching. How do you do it? I learned that on my honeymoon. I don't know. It's like, it's the plate.

It's tough out there. It's tough out there. We have so much to get into. We have our special guest, Elizabeth Wagmeister, returns from CNN. Elizabeth, who broke the P. Diddy story. Obviously, trigger warning for anyone out there. Very disturbing content that's been out there.

In a way, I guess, I'm glad it's been revealed because it's powerful men, obviously for far too long, get away with these horrible atrocities. And it's sad that, you know, it will sometimes take hard video evidence like this for any type of accountability to be even addressed. Not that P. Diddy really did, he did release a statement. But Elizabeth Wagmeister is here, we have a lot of questions for her, obviously, I'm curious how she even obtained the video, because there's rumors out there that P. Diddy

or Diddy, whatever the fuck he's going by, POS. I think it's just Diddy. Yeah, yeah. There we go, POS. That he tried to, or he did pay $50,000. Also, fuck you to the person who sold it to him. That person should be under investigation for obstructing justice. I'm not a lawyer or know anything about the legal system,

but Elizabeth is bringing her legal team on the show. By team, I mean, I think she's bringing a guy on. He's a lawyer. She's bringing one person. He's got credentials. Anyways, obviously with Elizabeth breaking the story and her being a friend of the show, we wanted to bring Elizabeth on.

Also, Elizabeth did the first interview with our Golden Bachelorette. So we'll have a chance to talk to Elizabeth about her conversation with Joan. And then obviously so much to get into when it comes to the Summer House conversations, boy, like between, I think I owe Lindsay Hubbard an apology. You do.

I do. I agree. Am I the only one? No, collectively. Yeah, I was saying, you guys are gonna leave me hanging here? I feel like I was rooting for her like a couple of episodes ago. Sure, I mean.

Like I saw this coming that he was kind of, he was bottling things up and then that resulted with him treating her in a way that didn't give her a chance to even speak. We've been hard on Lindsay. She graciously came on the show and shared her truth about the breakup and obviously she was limited with something she could say because of the show.

And we know early on in the season that she made some questionable comments about Carl's drinking. And it felt like she was weaponizing that against him. And that is, I think, a fair criticism. But now that I kind of go back in my head and it's just like, you know, as someone who, I have a very low tolerance for people who abuse alcohol.

I'm not a heavy drinker, so when I'm around messy drunk people, I have zero tolerance for it. I'm just not, I find it obnoxious and annoying. Honestly, I think one of the major reasons why Naya and I work so well together is our consumption of alcohol and how we handle our alcohol is similar. I think that matters. I've dated people who get more drunk than me.

It's fucking annoying when you are dating someone who's not on the level of drunkness as you. This is all to say, like I could appreciate why Lindsay could be frustrated, maybe say some things that she'd have to apologize for, but since she made those comments, they recorded this whole season and we kind of expected Lindsay to what?

Like remember this moment that she clearly was wrong and needed to apologize for. Meanwhile, I am starting to really empathize with Lindsay and share in her frustration with Carl. We'll get into it later in the episode, but Lindsay, if you're out there, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I think we were unnecessarily hard on you.

We owe you an apology. And we understand your plight. We didn't know what was about to unfold. We didn't know. And well. Yeah. Elizabeth, is it time to bring on Elizabeth? It's time to bring on Elizabeth.

All right, returning to the show, friend of show, and CNN correspondent who broke a very obviously major, sad, but major story. Elizabeth Wagmeister returns to the show and she's bringing her friend, special correspondent, Josh Campbell with her. Elizabeth, welcome. Hey, Nick, how's it going?

Good, how are you? We, we're good. We're busy. Must be very busy. So I guess to start, first of all, it seems awkward to say congratulations to breaking such a major story, but given the content of what the story was.

But like, what has that been like for you, I suppose, who when breaking this story, given its context, yeah, how did you kind of handle that story in terms of the scope of how large it was versus like what we were the content that we were dealing with? You know, I think for our team, this was really a huge team effort from our LA Bureau, where we are right now. And this is a story that has been, we've spoken about it before on the Vile Files. And this is a story that since November

has really been nonstop. So Josh and I have been reporting on this story, you know, the various lawsuits, there's six lawsuits against Diddy, one of which was Cassie's, which is settled. So we've been reporting on this for a while. And when we got our hands on this tape, you just you know the magnitude of it right away. Obviously, everyone has seen it by now. It's incredibly violent. And it's shocking. So you know, when we see that as journalists, you know, we're still human. So you see that. And it's pretty. It's pretty terrible to watch, you know, it's really, really

hard to watch and to imagine someone going through that. So that's kind of the first reaction. Then I think the second reaction is, wow, this really appears to corroborate Cassie's claims because she had this incident laid out in her lawsuit. And what we watched and what everyone has seen that was really word for word what she said.

So we knew the news value of it because that is our job is to put out news. But we also knew the sensitivity with it. And we're not TMZ. So we really, we knew how sensitive this story was, not just for Cassie, but for people who would watch it. So our team had many conversations about the framing and how, you know, what is the purpose of this? And I actually thought, you know, once we see this, like it's journalistic malpractice, not to put it out, because now we see right in front of us what this man is capable of, who has been denying all of these allegations. So we knew that we had to, to put it out there. And I think that the reaction kind of speaks to, to the immediate impact that it's made, right?

Because this is, it's what everybody is talking about. So what do you think, Josh? No, I think you're right. I mean, the thing that really stands out in addition to, as Elizabeth mentioned, just the, the, the violent disturbing nature is just how, you know, seeing it for yourself, how this is completely the opposite of the blanket denials that Diddy and his team had put out going so far as to almost kind of engage in like a character assassination saying,

oh, these are people trying to score a quick buck, right? And just across the board denials. And then, of course we live in this era where, it's one thing to read about something that's been alleged, but when you can actually see it for yourself and, and, and put yourself in her shoes in that moment. Um, it's just something that, that, you know, obviously it's so powerful and really sticks with people.

But I think that's the main thing. I mean, it's almost kind of like, Oh, it's, it'll be interesting to see whether this is now this avalanche coming right where before people were saying this was a he said, she said, now you have the video. I mean, you can't refute that. Yeah, other, so Elizabeth, I know you said it's kind of a play by play of the incident

that is in her lawsuit. Did she make other accusations about Diddy's actions in addition to this incident? Yeah, so it's a I believe 35 page lawsuit There's many allegations, you know, she accuses him of rape sex trafficking she says that she was subject to like this cycle of abuse for the decade that they were together and I think that can be hard for people to understand, right?

Like the, I've covered a lot of these stories throughout the Me Too movement. And I remember during one of the Harvey Weinstein trials, they brought on an expert witness who explains what they called rape myths. And, you know, a lot of people think, how could you be assaulted if you're in a relationship? And how could you? And I think now, again, to Josh's point, when you see the video, you see it for yourself, right? And there's a lot of, you know, victim advocates and, you know, survivors who have spoken about these behaviors that you go back and, you know, that's what was laid out in her lawsuit. And we see that. So I went on a bit of a tangent there, but there are many allegations and, you know, it's important to point out just because one allegation has been proven true, it doesn't mean that the rest are, right? So we would

have no way of knowing if every allegation in those 30 plus pages of those of that complaint are true. What now has happened though is Diddy, as Josh said, gave a blanket statement to say, I didn't do any of these terrible things that I'm being alleged of. His attorney at the time, when they settled within 24 hours, his attorney said, this settlement is not an admission of wrongdoing. Well, now we see that one piece of this is true, blatantly true.

So he's a proven liar at this point, right? So now his credibility has been attacked. So when he denies, denies, denies all of the rest of her allegations and other people's allegations, how is that received? Now, of course, the court of public opinion is one thing and it doesn't really matter. I'm sure that his team would say, it doesn't really matter what the public think.

It matters what's true. But again, if his strategy has been to deny, this makes it a lot tougher for him to continue. Yeah, well also to your point, you were saying that with regards to this incident, her story lines up with great detail to what we saw in video, which only adds to her credibility

about her other accusations where it was so accurate and so detailed and we saw that corroborated. And while we don't have evidence for some of the other allegations, her credibility, you know, and rightfully so, has gone way up while Diddy's and rightfully so has has tanked. How do you come across a video like this? I mean, I know it came out that he paid $50,000 to like buy this footage or something.

I don't know how true that is, but like how did y'all find it? So you're not gonna like the answer, but we typically, and every journalist that you talk to will pretty much say the same thing. Oh, you cannot reveal your sources. Never reveal our sources, yeah, sources and methods, just like the police, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's really not to be coy, but it's just to obviously ensure that anyone who needs to come forward and provide information, especially something as explosive as this, understands that they will have complete anonymity. But I think the idea that it exists, that we can now see it for ourselves,

obviously has changed the conversation, as we've now see it for ourselves. Obviously has changed the conversation as we've been talking about here around him. I think there are questions that still need to be answered. And that is specifically for this hotel company where this took place. So my background is in law enforcement. And that's why Elizabeth and I have been partnered on so many of these stories.

I was an FBI agent before going into the media. And so I cover kind of the law enforcement, the justice department beat. And so that's one thing that really stands out for me. So we have this video, but what did the Intercontinental Hotels and Resorts Group do with that video once they saw it actually in real time, their own people.

And we know that from the videos that their employees knew what was happening. And we've reached out to the company, we have not heard back, we've reached out to the LAPD. Their answer that they gave us was somewhat, I don't know, kind of two cube by half, maybe I would say, because what we asked them was, did you investigate this? And their answer was, we do not currently

have an investigation on combs, which obviously does not answer the question. Did you at the time have an investigation? And so I think, I don't want to read too much into why they're not specifically stating if there was a pastor, obviously it's something we're going to continue to press, but it's something we're gonna continue to press. But really for this hotel, you mentioned the payment.

We haven't been able to corroborate that yet with our reporting. Obviously there are other outlets out there that are doing some good reporting. And also not to interrupt, that came from Cassie's lawsuit. That's where that allegation was made. Okay.

Just to be clear. But it doesn't make me question, if you see abuse on tape, what do you do about it? Well, and I know recently I did the district attorney or someone from LA kind of, didn't they come forward and talk about why they can't press charges or why Diddy won't face charges because there's too much time has passed. I don't know, Josh, if you have any insight on that.

And I guess, is there, for whoever saw this video for from the hotel company, is there a potential like obstruction of justice? Because like, you know, it doesn't it seems a bit messed up to say, well, had we seen this video at the appropriate time, you might have been able to press charges. But we didn't, so we can't. But for the people who did see the video and chose not to send it to the proper authorities, if that's in fact what happened or didn't happen, wouldn't that be obstruction of justice? Or shouldn't someone from the hotel side

be held accountable for not passing what would have been criminal activity? Yeah, so I'll take your second question there first. So you're absolutely right. And that is really the thrust of our current investigative efforts is trying to figure out well, who knew what, and then obviously what what potential liability that there is, you know intercontinental hotel. So it's since changed hands. But again, lots of remaining questions. Well, whenever you close a hotel,

do you maintain some of the same management, some of the same security people? Obviously this is a global hotel organization. All that is what we're working to drill down on. And so your first question about the LA District Attorney, he did come out and say, as gruesome as it is what you see on that video, prosecutors can only follow what's in the law. And he said that this is now beyond the statute

of limitations, which is about three to six years, depending on the nature of activity or alleged crime that occurs. And so even if they wanted to prosecute right now, they wouldn't be able to. But that all that said, everything that we've been mentioning here, it will be interesting to see if this then inspires others

to come out and provide information. And then I'm curious to Elizabeth thoughts as well, but there's the whole idea of the federal investigation separately that's still going on. And so there might still be some criminal accountability It just may not be from that video itself and it begs the question though is like why why is an assault of this? Magnitude and this much violence. Why is there such a short statute limit limitations like You know, he literally could have killed this woman with this type of physical and and if I'm I don't get it I'm not a legal expert expert but if had a murder happened like he could still be

prosecuted like it just seems very wrong that this type of domestic violence is has such a short statute of limitations is there a chance like this could create a larger discussion or maybe even change some of the current laws that exist or is that too hopeful? I think you bring up a really good point which this has illuminated this issue of the statute of limitations and a lot of people you know have been saying the statute of limitations seems to protect the abuser more than the victim and

In this case it does right? So I think that there it's in the conversation whether or not this becomes something that is looked at and laws can change, you don't know. But you know, sometimes laws do change because of outrage. And, you know, I have no doubt there will be lawmakers and activists who are now really continuing to push this and already have been, you know, sexual crimes are very, very difficult to prosecute. And Josh could speak more of this because his background is a former FBI agent, but just me in covering a lot of these cases. That's why there's that's why it's one of the reasons why people don't come forward because a who's going to believe me be will there be retaliation but see it's so hard to get this into a court of law. One of the reasons because of the statute of limitations.

So if you come forward years later, they'll say, too late, you know, you should have come forward the night it happened. Yeah. I'm sure you all saw his response video. What was your reaction to that? You know, I don't know what else he could have said. Right? You can't deny it, certainly, as he has been doing. Now we see it on tape. Before we put it out there, our team goes through great efforts to make sure the video is in doctored, to make sure there's no AI.

This is real, and everybody saw it. So he can't deny it, like he's been doing, so I guess the only thing to do is to apologize. Whether or not that apology came off sincere, I would say look at the comment section. I found it interesting he didn't once say, I'm sorry to Cassie. So here I will say, and I agree, but I will say since there's a settlement, they cannot talk about each other. That said, I don't think if you said I'm sorry to Cassie that she would have come after him

for violation of the NDA. So I think that was a big open gap there. And my sense too in watching that was just, and obviously we look at this objectively as journalists, but there is a looming question, like are you sorry that you did it or are you sorry that you got caught on video? And that's an important distinction

because of the recent denials that we've talked about, the blanket denial. So if in one, just months ago, you can say this person's a liar, they have motives that are not pure, they're going after money. And then just months later for video to surface and then say, you know what, I'm really sorry

that was a different person then. There's a lot to impact there. Yeah. So, you know, obviously this video has confirmed what many of us have already thought that, you know, Diddy is a bad person, horrible person. But I think the big question is how does this video have an impact on the federal investigation, if at all? Or is it just more him being condemned in the court of public opinion?

Does this potentially play a role in the investigation? Or did maybe the FBI already have access to this video, because they're probably not going to share all the evidence that they probably have under an investigation. Or you know, I guess, how does how does this kind of work with that larger court case or investigation that he's currently going under that he's under? So it's a really great question. And what is so fascinating about this ongoing federal investigation, and just to remind

the viewers, this is based on our reporting, a sex trafficking investigation that the federal government is currently pursuing. This is an agency in the Department of Homeland Security called Homeland Security Investigations. One of their specialties is actually sex trafficking. And of course, we saw those dramatic raids at the two properties in late March, the home here in Los Angeles, the other one there in Miami, where you had the federal agents that were there going through executing these search warrants. To the question specifically about how this might play

in that investigation, it's unclear how a video like this would play legally just because of the statute of limitations issues. But we do know from talking with law enforcement sources that that investigation mirrors a lot of what the allegations have been made by other victims. And, you know, this is really interesting. And I know that Nick, you and Elizabeth had talked about R. Kelly last time whenever she was on your show and talking to law enforcement sources, you know, what they tell us is, and

obviously they keep a lot close to the vest. but we've heard sources say, look at how we handled the R. Kelly situation. And what that was, which was really interesting, was essentially the federal investigators not going after one person initially, but they went after a criminal enterprise actually, not to get too wonky, but under what's called the RICO statute, which is basically a 1970s era law that was passed that allowed prosecutors to go after the mafia. And what it was is that if you are committing a crime yourself, yes, you are liable for prosecution,

but if you're doing it with other people, the penalties are so much more severe. And what law enforcement sources tell us, and we know from the R. Kelly case, is they say, look, that was the roadmap for this investigation with Diddy. And that is R. Kelly, it was alleged throughout his prosecution that he had worked with others

to get young people of underage people. And obviously we know that he received a very severe sentence. And interestingly, I was going back and looking through the court cases. And one point his attorney in trying to bash the federal government said, Rico, you're using Rico against us.

If that's the case, then all frat houses are now gonna be charged with federal crimes. That, you know, the idea that you're just bringing people around for sex, that obviously didn't hold light. But anyway, but that's what's interesting about this case is that they're going about it the exact same way. And the reason why that's important, I mean, I could talk all day about this,

but the reason why that's important is because when you're going after multiple people, you want the person at the top. And so if you have the underlings, so to speak, people who are in his orbit and Diddy's orbit that are now themselves subject to potential prosecution, will they flip? Will they turn?

Will they tell the federal government everything they know? Really complex work going on behind the scenes. I know recently in the news it was Diddy's, he's referred to as Diddy's like drug mule. Apparently he made a deal with the prosecutors or law enforcement. And apparently he's not gonna serve any jail time, which does that mean, is that bad news for Diddy, Josh?

Potentially. Yeah. And it's unclear what I mean, obviously, it was a drug allegation. I think they found drugs in his duffle bag. See what they're in Miami at the airport. But I could see a world where I mean, a drug charge is obviously a relatively low level type charge, particularly when you're talking about sex trafficking. And so I can certainly see a world where the feds go to them and say,

hey, okay, but do you wanna play ball here? We think you might know things that may be of interest to our investigation. What's it worth to you? Is it worth a potential reduction in these other crimes? And we see it time and time and time again in cases that when people as loyal as they may seem, at the end of the day when they're facing

years in prison, yeah. Prison, yeah, minds tend to change. That's interesting, yeah. And also I'm assuming that these things do and will take time and so it's probably important for us, the public, who especially after this week and being so outraged by this video, if we're wanting justice to be served

and Diddy to face the consequences, it might take some time for this whole investigation to kind of run its course. Yeah, you've covered so many of these before. You know, the length of- Yeah, and I actually asked Josh at the beginning, I said, you know, how long could this investigation take? And does it feel like it's taking a long time

and not to take Josh's words, but he said, no, like this is complex work, like they need to get it right. So they're going to take their time. Yeah, and there's no rush on that point. I mean, you think about all the items that they seize from these residences. We know it's cell phones and digital media and all of that, all that has to be processed, all that has to be hopefully corroborated, you know, with other potential

witnesses. And so anyway, you're spot on that if people are looking at that video and I've looked at a lot of comments on, you know, obviously everyone should follow Elizabeth on Twitter on when she posted this report, a lot of the comments, you know, lock him up, he should be in jail immediately. Probably not going to work that way. But obviously time will tell regarding what that investigation, where it leads, and whether anything that they found in those residences actually is evidence of a crime.

How is he currently living? I mean, is he able to, I know last time we spoke, Elizabeth, he was like on a spring break vacation with his kids that everyone thought he was like running from. I mean, is he able to just kind of do whatever? He is, so, you know, I do think, you know, we need to clear this up

because we have the reporting on this. He has not fled the country to our knowledge. His apology video looks like it's in a tropical location. That said, yesterday, then there's photos on TMZ of him at a meeting where he has a residence. So he, as we know at the moment, it appears that he's in Miami and he is free to do what he wants.

His passport has not been restricted. He's not being held and being restricted from traveling. He can do what he wants. It's again, it's in the stage of an investigation. If an indictment comes down, obviously, then all things change. But right now they are investigating. And even though this video that we put out

has created mass outrage and rightfully so, there's no charges. There's no open investigation because of the statute of limitations. So he is free to do what he wants right now. Josh, given that he is free to do what he wants and he has access to his own passport, what would happen?

What would the FBI do if all of a sudden they found a guy who has his own private jet was taking a quote unquote vacation to say a country that didn't extradite, you know, criminals. Like if he was like, hey, he's going to this country, would they just let him go and hope that he comes back? Well, even though he hasn't been indicted, what would that look like?

Yeah, so, you know, it's a really great question. I would imagine that with the public's ability to track flights, right? Sure. We go to Florida where the feds can also do the same. I would imagine they know exactly where that jet is parked at any moment and even around the airport there. If they're spooling that jet up to fly somewhere, I imagine someone at airport security

is letting the feds know for situational awareness. But to Elizabeth's point, it's not at the stage in investigation right now, as far as we know, where they could actually do anything. Now, obviously that would look extremely guilty, and that's something that they could then present as evidence if he does flee to a place,

particularly without an extradition treaty. Depending on the window of time, if the feds got some indication that he was about to travel, you know, would they go to a grand jury and try to seek a quick indictment? Depends on what they have right now. The danger of that is that if that case then falls apart because you rushed it, then you might lose the whole case,

you know, once you get the trial. But it is something certainly that I would imagine that the feds are concerned about, they're monitoring. There is a stage in the investigation at some point where the justice department, depending on if someone may be a flight risk or not, they may send what's called a target letter to someone to actually say, you are the target

of this federal investigation. We know that he's, and that's a very, that's a legal distinction, but that basically means you're about to get indicted. In which case, if that person then, you know, makes a move that obviously just looks nothing but guilty. But I, you know, I was an FBI agent working overseas for much of my career, working with foreign governments.

The FBI, this is a different agency running this case, but they would work with the FBI to ensure whatever law enforcement agency, uh, in country X or Y at least had some sense of what was going on, particularly if this person had, um, you know, warrant for their arrest. Uh, but yeah, it's, it's, it's the big question. What is, what does he do? Um, and particularly if it looks like it's getting closer to him actually. Yeah.

Cause you're, you put yourself in his shoes as someone with that much power, money and influence. You know, you look at R. Kelly, he's now facing he'd probably spend the rest of his life in prison. And if you're, you know, if you're Diddy, and you're it's like the the laws of law enforcement are coming down on you, why wouldn't you try to flee? You know? But you know, you just reminded me of something else too,

which I'll just say briefly, you know, there was so much focus on the heavy handedness with which the feds went into these residents, right? They had the SWAT teams and they were pulling people out, which obviously Diddy's lawyers just slammed. I think his lawyers called it a gross overuse of military force. Yeah, it's not a witch hunt.

A witch hunt, right. That was interesting. I mean, we know based on reporting that he had private armed security. So that would be one indication. But what you just said there, Nick, really made me think about past investigations as well. And that is people often think,

well, the SWAT team is just for violent people, right? The gang bangers or someone who might have a gun, but in reality, when you have someone like Diddy, someone who has that much money and sees the walls closing in, that could be a potentially violent situation when that person realizes that, okay, my life is over now,

and sometimes people do stupid stuff whenever that happens. I just wanna mention that because there's so much focus on the raid itself. Yeah, that's a good point, because you go from his mindset of someone who probably has a sense of being untouchable to feeling like your life is over,

and when that happens, you're right. All bets are off in terms of what you can predict in terms of someone's behavior, so it's pretty fascinating. Wild stuff. And you guys, do you have any more questions for Josh? You nailed it. Zoa, you've got to check out Zoa. Dwayne the Rock Johnson's energy drink.

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Circle K and more. So there's this really cool company in my hometown of Waukesha, Wisconsin that I'd like to talk about. I've said it before, but I'm a grinder. I grind my teeth a lot, unfortunately. Sometimes the stress makes you grind your teeth and I tend to grind them at night, but that's where Sporting Smiles comes in with a great solution.

Sporting Smiles crafts custom night guards and I've been using them for the past few months now and my teeth have never felt better. And the best part is the process was super easy. There is no going to the dentist. It's all done 100% online. I went to their website and they sent me the tools to make impressions of my teeth. I sent some photos to Sporting Smiles and after approval from their lab techs we were off to the next steps. They also make retainers and custom whitening trays. It's the same quality as the dentist but without the hassle of going there and it's typically half the cost. Sporting Smiles serves the entire United States and they've got a sale going on

right now where you can save 10% on all your orders with promo code VIALL10. That's promo code VIALL10. Again, you can check out their sale by using promo code VIALL10 when you go to SportingSmiles.com. Check out my hometown company, Sporting Smiles, for your dental product needs. Well, Josh, I really appreciate you taking the time to answer our questions. I think is Elizabeth going to hang out to talk a little bit about the Bachelorette? Do you watch the Bachelorette. Do you watch the picture? I don't only only know through her report

I only know the current events based on her reporting. How long were you in the FBI Josh? 13 years. Oh, thank you for your service. I appreciate it. Thanks so much. Have you been with CNN ever since? Yeah, so I've been here for about six years now. Oh, how'd you get into that? Was it just kind of a fortuitous? You left the FBI and then? Yeah, it was, I mean, it's interesting. I still feel sometimes like you're, I mean, law enforcement, because the critters are so similar. You know, you're investigating things that happened and talking to people and recruiting sources and the like.

I don't have subpoena power, which I wish I had as a journalist, but I was nicer as an FBI agent, but a lot of similarities in the two fields. And subpoena power, which I wish I hadn't as a journalist, but that was, that was nicer as an FBI agent, but a lot of similarities in the two fields. And subpoena power would be the ability to make someone talk. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. You're going to tell us something or also it's on that note, it's illegal to lie to

an FBI agent. And so if you're interviewing someone and they lie to you, they go to jail, which obviously people lie to journalists all the time. Sure. Is it true that if you smoke weed more than like seven times, you can't go to the FBI, like you can't work for the FBI? So it used to be really strict. I think the, over time it's been more stringent on

if you've sold drugs illegally. So there was that distinction. And, you know, there was one FBI director who I had served under who said, cause he was making the case, he was like was like look we're not gonna be able to get people in in this era you know you know sometimes we have people that are smoking a joint on their way to the interview with the FBI but that doesn't make them a bad person right God bless so yeah right so that's been the main

focus is you know people who are in the illicit dealing of drugs, I should say. Well, Josh, thank you so much for taking the time and giving us your expertise in this field. Elizabeth, do you have a few minutes to stay on and talk about our new Golden Bachelorette? Yeah, let's take a quick pivot. Let's keep Josh for this.

Josh, stay on. We can get your insights. Wait, let's put him on the spot, but I have a question. Have you ever seen an episode of The Bachelor? I've seen it only in so far we were just talking about. I've followed your reporting. Okay. So that's my note. What a supportive friend. Do you know that Nick is formally...

Of course. Oh, I know. Oh, yeah. I know his little background. He did his journalism research. He is a journalist, Elizabeth. Exactly. Well, we'll blame it on journalism. I'm almost through with your FBI file, it was like two volumes. A lot of weed smoking in there.

I'm a rule follower, yeah, I like a good rule. Elizabeth, you had the pleasure of interviewing our first Golden Bachelorette, Joan, would just love your insight into how you think Joan is gonna do and what was your biggest takeaway from that conversation you had with her? Yeah, really showing the scope of CNN,

entertainment coverage, right? But she was great. She's really exactly what you see and I think she's going to be, I think she's the perfect person for this because she really does want to find love. She appears to be so genuine, and I think she has all the elements that people will relate to, right?

She's a mother, she's a grandmother, she has suffered this great loss of the love of her life. She's finally ready to get back into it. She's obviously beautiful. She left the last season because she was going to her daughter who needed her. So she's very family oriented. So I think she'll do really well.

And I think viewers will love her. One thing that was interesting though that I asked her is, you know, obviously Gary and Teresa three months later are, you know, divorced. So and it's a little unclear why they split. You know, I think everyone's a bit confused over that. But I think one of the obvious things to point out is when you've lived that much life and you're established, it's not so easy just to leave, right? So when you have children and grandchildren, that's a hard thing to meet someone and then and then move away, right? It's, you know,

for better or for worse, there's a lot of conversation on The Bachelor and other dating shows that when you meet at 25, like, are you really ready? But when you meet at 25, you it's easier to move, right to uproot your life. So I asked her about that. And she said that she would never move at all. So I said, So how's that going to work? And she said, Well, that's going to be a first, you know, conversation I a first conversation I have, and basically we can do long distance, we'll figure it out, we'll visit each other, maybe we can get another home somewhere in the middle.

So I think that will be very interesting. That'll be very interesting, but I appreciate Joan being upfront about that, from upfront expectations. Now, hopefully she, from upfront expectations. Now, like, no one, you know, hopefully she follows through with that. And because I don't think when it comes to Gary and Teresa, those are all understandable, like, hey, well, moving at that age, you got grandchildren.

But I think everyone's confused. It's because, well, why did you get married? You know, it's one thing to get engaged on The Bachelor or The Bachelorette. I mean, you know, I've been guilty of it, right? But like, it's pretty easy to get out of it, you know? It's like, it's an agreement you make with the show. It's like, hey, if I have strong feelings

at the end of this, sure, fuck it, we'll get engaged. We'll see what happens. But they, three months later, then did a very different thing, which is to like, actually have a legal ceremony bonding them together. And it's like, why didn't they have those conversations about who would be willing to move or who wouldn't prior to a wedding?

And why was that used in an excuse so quickly after they actually said, I do? I appreciate Joan being upfront, being like, no, I'm not gonna move. So like now she knows that if she really wants to make this work, you know, those are gonna be conversations that she's gonna have to have. I don't know about this idea about some sort of like

middle home, you know, like that sounds like you're gonna date this guy. And maybe Joan's in it for like, it would make a lot of sense that she's in it for a fine love, but maybe not marriage, you know? And I asked her about that. And she said, you know, if it ends up in marriage, great, but she said, I'm not rushing into it. You know, she wants to find her life partner.

And she said, whether or not that's an engagement or not, you know, she just wants to find her life partner. And I love that, because that actually makes a lot of sense, right? Someone at her stage of her life, she has grandchildren, she has a whole life. I don't know where Joan lives right now. And if she does fall in love with someone who, say, lives across the country, who has his own life, his own grandchildren, or maybe not grandchildren, or whatever it is, whatever his life entails,

they could still have a beautiful relationship that, you know, because of that, the point of their life, maybe they could meet up and they could be travel companions, you know, they could visit each other and they could have companionship with each other for a very long time that doesn't necessarily require marriage, you know, or a traditional relationship. So I like that she seems to be upfront about that. And hopefully the audience or Bachelor Nation won't put this unnecessary expectation of them or the show, because the show,

sometimes the show does that too. Of all like, well, let's get married, you know, let's do the wedding part. But like, why can't we just hopefully, you know, support whatever love that they want because they are, you know, starting something later in life and that can be very different, like you said,

than starting a relationship in your 20s and family planning and chances are Joan and whoever her man is aren't gonna have kids together. Maybe, I don't know, I don't wanna, but I think it's possible, but probably not. And so I don't think we need to like pressure them with the traditional whatever that means in terms of where we see the things

that our relationship should go. I've always thought that on The Bachelor, that there should be less emphasis on the engagement. I've always thought that it should just be, we end up together, we're making a commitment to each other, we'll see how that happens. Now I understand that it raises the stakes to end in an engagement, right? Like if the whole show is leading up to this moment to be like, well you be my boyfriend, like, you might resonate, but you know, it's like, it's

it's not the normal world, A, and B, you don't have that much time with each other, so then you get engaged and it's like a lot really fast. So I love the way that Joan is approaching it and she seems to be very serious about it. She seems to be realistic about it. And she said, like, I really believe in this process. You know, I've seen this work for a lot of couples on The Bachelor and she's ready. Well, the last question I have for you is,

do you know how much the show considered other women like Leslie or Faith or April, like how strong of candidates were those other ladies or was it Joan all the way? I think that they considered others, but I think that they were very excited about Joan. But I think, you know, what's so interesting and I spoke to Joan about this too,

there were so many people that could have done it. Where sometimes on seasons, you know, it's like, that's your bachelor, that's your bachelor. And here, there was like five that the audience would have loved. But obviously, as we've seen, like these golden women is, I don't know what else to call them. They're very much kind of in the family, right? Like, they keep popping up on different shows. And they obviously like the network obviously loves these women and wants to keep utilizing them. But I think that Joan was really a good pick and one that they were very hot on. But I know you didn't ask this, but I'll leave you with some some tea. I know you didn't ask this, but I'll leave you with some tea. I asked about Golden Paradise, and Joan was like, I want to be there.

She's like, I hope I'm married, so I hope I find my life partner, so I hope I'm not there. She's like, but this show needs to happen. I was like, I think Susan should be the Wells and should be the bartender. She's like, yes, but Susan should be a contestant. So this idea, I will tell you, of Bachelor in Paradise Golden Edition is a real thing. It is not just like we're talking about it.

I believe that it's something that they, whoever they is, will be considering. And it's a real thing. That's good to hear. Do you have any insight how confident the Warner Brothers or ABC feels about the batch of men they have for Joan? I know they're not starting to film until what this fall or when are they filming? Or it's airing this fall? It's airing this fall. they have not gone into production yet. So I don't know anything about- That's like the big concern of, can they find enough of old grumpy men

who are willing to be vulnerable? You know, like I have my concerns, you know, in terms of their ability to find quality older men who are gonna be willing to come on this type of show and date. And I know we are all very excited about Gary, but even now, Gary's comes with some question marks, you know, so we'll see. I wonder if we can get Josh to watch this.

What do you think? I for you, the world. Josh, can you look into Gary for us to see if he why they really got divorced? Yeah, and I'll see if there's another cross of people. Clear your schedule for the rest of the day. This is important. We need you to do a deep dive.

On it. As we say, this is the case for the FBI. This is the case for the FBI. Elizabeth, it's always a pleasure talking with you. And again, thank you for sharing your expertise and your insight on such a very topical and quite honestly an important case when it comes to Diddy. I think it's obviously raising a lot of important questions

and conversations around domestic abuse and bringing awareness to obviously something that happens far too often and gets swept under the rug far too often as well. And Josh as well, thank you for joining and sharing your expertise as well. It's very interesting and insightful what you've had to share. And actually, before we go, I'm pulling up a number.

I think it's important that we share the hotline if any of your listeners or viewers are experiencing any domestic abuse in their life. Josh was on air with our anchor Jake Tapper the other day and Josh said this aloud on air and I think it's really important. So it's 1-800-799-SAFE and that's the hotline. So the domestic violence hotline is available for anyone who may be experiencing that in their own lives. And we know statistically it's far more prevalent than it should be.

Yeah. Well, thank you for sharing that and thank you for coming on. We really appreciate it. Thank you. All right, take care guys. Well, we thank Elizabeth and Josh for their time. Super interesting stuff.

Obviously a very sad topic, but we're glad Elizabeth took the time and we thank her and her team for bringing this video to light, it's disturbing as it is. Hopefully it creates some positive change. Time to get into all things Bravo. In addition to all the other shows we've been covering, New Jersey Housewife is back on our television set.

I know we, it's been back on for- Our television set. Our streaming channels. Old man. Turn the dial. Television set is like real for me though. Cause I grew up with a box TV. So I'm like that is a television set.

Thank you. Same, but it's very much aging, honey. Do you watch it? Did you watch the shows on a TV? Versus. Do you have, but do you have like surround sound speakers in your living room? Yes.

Yes. Television set. Thank you. A television and a set. Thank you, Justin. That's where I was going with that. Surround sound, Blu-ray. Did you watch it on Blu-ray?

Immediate, immediate rage. I feel like we've been sleeping on, well, we, I, I haven't really gotten into New Jersey Housewives. I mean, I've seen episodes here or there diving into the season. I'm excited. Do you want, Justin, do you want to, or Sierra, do you want to give a little like oral history for?

I mean, I'm curious first who you think is like your favorite housewife out of this cast. Melissa. Okay. Yeah, I feel like Melissa is just such an OG. I compare to her, like I feel like her and Joe are Kyle and Mauricio,

obviously, if, take out the divorce, you know what I'm saying? But like, I feel like if they were to divorce, it would cause the exact same reaction as Kyle and Mauricio. Yeah, probably. I mean, New Jersey, they're, like I'm not too well known in the Jersey sphere, but like once you dive into the family history, that's where people get the nooks and crannies. Obviously, Teresa is like an OG.

She went to jail. The show went on pause for Teresa to go to jail. And then it came back when she came back. And then that's where you get like Teresa, all the other people went to jail and then partied with Taylor Swift at Coachella. Like, that's range. Like, that's incredible range. Do you think Taylor knew?

Didn't Teresa say, do you know who I am? And Taylor was like, yeah, I mean, Teresa did go to jail for her husband's like fraudulent mortgage scheme, whatever it is. She went to jail. That means that it wasn't just her husband's fraudulent mortgage scheme, whatever it is. If she went to jail, that means that it wasn't just her husband's. Well, she allegedly or what she was saying was she signed the papers, but didn't know what the papers were. And he got deported. Yeah.

So he got deported. She legally had to go. Do we know where he is currently in this moment? He's in Italy. Well, he's in the Bahamas now. In the Bahamas? Yeah, they were FaceTiming him last episode. That sounds so criminal.

But he got deported to Italy because that's where he's from. Yeah. Is that why they got divorced? Yes, the mortgage fraud put a big damper on their marriage. Well, because she was in jail and she missed out, I believe, on some of her family members passing

and then big events in her family's life. So she blamed a lot of that, or she felt a lot of that was because of Joe. Also the tarnished reputation. Yeah. What I love about New Jersey is that the men are so involved. Oh yeah.

So that's the thing. So New Jersey is known for like their family playing a major role. So even like their children will play a role. So like Teresa's daughter, Gia, she got a paycheck from last season for like cussing out Joe, her like brother. So like everybody in the family, like nobody's off limits.

And that's why like Housewives get mad because someone talks about or threatens someone else's like child, but at the same time like... The kids a little, the kids stuff is a little kind of, I don't know. It's questionable. I do love that the husbands are part of the reunions. I think that's awesome. And I think they, I think other franchises should follow suit. Typically in Housewives franchises,

it's that the family's off limits. This is one of the few franchises where it's like, not only are all the family members involved, but like play a specific role. You know, like there's like, okay, with Gia, for example, she yelling at her uncle on camera did cause her to get a paycheck, but also it was very much her defending her dad and her mom. So it's like one of those things where it's like you kind of see where everybody's

coming from and it doesn't seem like it's just this like manufactured direct hit out of nowhere. You know what I mean? And so Melissa is married to Joe and Joe is Teresa's brother and Melissa and Teresa do not speak. I am aware that there is the feud, but I'm not fully aware of what the origins of the feud and why the feud is your attack. So I did a deep dive into the timeline because I'm sure I'm missing a ton of things because there's so much that's happened.

So much. That's gone on. But Melissa joined season three and that's kind of where it started because Teresa basically said like, Melissa was a gold digger. Teresa didn't visit Melissa in the hospital when she gave birth. And then she said like, Melissa is stealing my brother from me.

So that's kind of like when Melissa joined the show, that's what started it. Well, she married him. Isn't that what you do? No, exactly. But then Teresa goes on to accuse Melissa. Are you stealing me from my sisters or how does that work? Do you feel that way? No, but it's such a weird thing to...

No, it's... It's a weird thing for a sister to say. A lot of people are team Teresa, but like when you look at the timeline, it kind of looks like Teresa causes the drama. Cause basically Teresa goes on this- And why are they team Teresa? Cause she went, she's an icon. I don't know.

She went to jail, she came back, she's glowing. She had like a thousand body fins in her. Didn't she come out like a bodybuilder? She came out a bodybuilder, was like touring with those muscles in a tan. Like someone who goes to jail. Wow, she really leaned in. Justin showed me a photo ander was like touring with those muscles in a tan like like someone who goes to jail. Wow. She really will. She really leaned in. Justin showed me a photo and I was like, you're kidding me. She has the mannerisms of Ashley. I a little bit. Yeah. Well, every

once in a while, Theresa will like, it's just her mannerisms. Like, interesting. Yeah. But basically like the drama, I just don't know. Yeah, but basically, like... I'll just... I'll fuck myself. I just don't know how to say that well. The drama extends itself because, like, Teresa goes on to say that Melissa cheated on Joe, that she was a stripper, and then Melissa, Joe, and Teresa open a restaurant. That closes. Teresa blames Melissa. Teresa and her now husband, Louis, start a business with Joe. Joe steals the business. Like, so there's a lot of back and forth. Wait, why do they keep working together

while they hate each other? Well, because they keep, for a while they had a history of like, we hate each other, but let's create peace. But that's why this season is such a big thing. The way of creating peace is going into business? That's like the last thing you should fucking do. In that business end, so. Let's walk before we run people.

But basically that's what made the season big because they finally, at the end of last season, was like, we're done. Like we were severing ties. Like we're not going to film scenes together. BravoCon two years in a row had to do two separate panels because they wouldn't sit on the same panel together.

Now this season they refuse to film seasons together. And every season there is a new rumor that Teresa comes up with that is like Melissa is cheating. I think this season there's another cheating rumor coming out. So it's just like- Is Teresa the Kristen Doty of New Jersey?

Yes. For me. Yeah. Listen, if Melissa and Teresa can do it, why can't Ariana and Tom Sandoval do it? There you go. Yeah, I was thinking about that a lot when I was watching it.

I'm like, these two people are refusing to film together, but they're still filming a show and it's interesting. Yeah. We'll say Andy Cohen came out like a month ago and said this isn't sustainable. So like, he's kind of hinting that either they have to mend it or like one of them is getting kicked off. There's also so many women on how New Jersey.

Yeah. Yeah. It's gotta be the most. It is kind of not. It's like, it's, yeah. There's been a lot of like, wait, who was that, you know, like when I'm watching it. Also, do they do the, I don't know if maybe my eyes were closed or what,

but do they do the like all of them together in the? They do, so that's the thing, when you said that this is a bigger cast, a lot of the franchises, like they need to update that intro because it's the same intro, but like it just keeps getting bigger and bigger with more women. Yeah.

And now they're just like, okay. They also don't have anything that they hold. No, they hold like the Jersey symbol, I think. The Jer- What's the Jersey symbol? Like the state? Yeah, I'm pretty sure they hold the state. They hold the state of Jersey? I might have made that up.

I'm pretty sure they hold the state of Jersey. Do they? Like Atlanta, they hold a peach. A peach. Beverly Hills is a diamond. Orange. Snowflake. And Salt Lake City.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, a lot of these women start out as friends, but now they're all full time. So like Jackie and Jennifer Fessler are the only friends of this season. Teresa and Melissa won't film with each other,

but now they're also upset with Jen Fessler for being friends with Teresa. Yes. Because now Teresa is spreading rumors about Rachel's husband. Yes, and Jen Fessler and Dolores both are known as peacekeepers. So that's why Jen Fessler's kind of, she's playing both sides right now, Teresa is spreading rumors about Rachel's husband. Yes. And Jen Fessler and Dolores both are known as like peacekeepers. So that's why Jen Fessler's kind of... She's playing both sides right now,

but then Rachel is like... What's Rachel's husband's name? The drug dealing... Dildo selling drug user? Double into dildo. Double into dildo? Where do you get a double into dildo? Isn't a dildo just double into... Yeah, but that's what I wanted to know more about the dildo than the drug selling.

Cause I'm like, do they both use it? Oh, at the same time. Cause she said he's kinky. So I'm like, are they, I don't know, maybe that's TMI. They're kind of ass-fucking each other? Or like, I don't know. Oh my God. How does that work?

I don't know. His teeth are also extremely intense. Double-sided dildo. Well, that's cause, yeah, double-ended. Double-sided, you said double-sided. Well, yeah, okay. Same thing. That scene in episode one, when they're at that party,

I know they're filming a TV show, so I get from the objects of a housewife, I get why they're bringing up drama at these events, cause that's part of the job. But watching this scene, it reminded me, it's just like I'm always blown away by everyone, not everyone in the world, but our willingness to spread rumors about ourselves.

Take a side that they're filming Housewives and they're doing this for the show, but stuff like this happens all the time. There's a rumor about you, you know? And this guy at an event is just trying to confront people about his rumors and the whole time they're at this party and he's screaming, I'm a, so I'm a drug dealer and he's talking about dildos and things like that.

And it's just like, I'm always blown away by people's willingness to like spread messaging that they don't want out there about themselves or their own bad press or rumors about that. It actually reminds me of, it's the number one advice I give to alumni and bachelor nation that they don't take, which is don't spread rumors about yourself.

And it always, it floors me. It's like Nellie and I talk about it all the time, the amount of bad press I see alumni promote about yourself. And it's oh it always it floors me. It's like Natalie and I talk about it all the time. The amount of like bad press I see alumni promote about themselves. It's like they think that like it's you you they'll go on the blogs or like Reddit or whatever you know. They'll get two DMs. They'll get two DMs or there'll be like six comments that are negative and they like act as if that the average fan is up in their DMs and comments or reading all their fan blogs as much as they read about themselves.

And no one knows about it, right? No one fucking knows about it. And then they go on their massive Instagrams that have hundreds, sometimes millions of followers and they'll be like, the rumors about us cheating aren't true. It's like that relationship started after that relationship ended.

It's like, whoa, we didn't even know this fucking existed. What are you fucking talking about? It's like the amount of rumors I've heard people like reveal about themselves from Batch or Nation or just like influences in general is like wild to me. It's just like, why are you like, you know, like, and it just, it's kind of hilarious, you know? It's just, it like wild to me. It's just like, why are you like, you know, like, and it just, it's kind of hilarious, you know, it's just, it's unbelievable to me.

And like, think about it. It's just like, and then when they do that, when they go to their Instagram and post about the, the rumor that no one's talking about or no one knows about, and they like go and deny it, you know what happens then, then it's like the People magazines and the E news and the Us Weekly's, then they make it a national fucking story and being like so and so responds

to allegations about cheating or whatever. It's like no one fucking knew about this until you started talking about it. It's always hilarious the amount of people in reality TV, their willingness to spread rumors about themselves or to platform messaging that they don't actually believe in or like. I understand it because it feels so big to you

when you're like in it. And I've seen so many just like TikTok influencers or whatever being like, you know what? I'm finally gonna like address the drama. And it, yeah, it'll be like news to me where I'm like, oh my God, I've never heard of this before. And it's like, now I'm like, okay, doing this deep dive. And now I'm like learning all about this drama

that I would have never known about had you not made this TikTok talking about it. Yeah, it's, yeah. And what's the saying like, dows protest too much sometimes. You're just like, wait, why are, like I heard it, the cheating allegation from, wait, the person who's actually being accused of it,

they're the ones spreading the rumor about themselves. It's like, what the fuck is going on? It's like, it's- That's when the search bar on TikTok pops up. Yeah. So then everybody clicks on it and they're like scrolling through the videos and now everybody knows.

Yeah, it's just like, I don't, I honestly, I sometimes think that we, again, you hear me complaining about the internet and like the power of the internet. And I think we need to just like be more careful about. As a society, we amplify messaging that we don't believe in or we find to be crotesque so often and like I don't understand it, which actually brings me to the Harrison Buckner conversation, which has swept the nation. And it's like not to even get into what he said because I think it

goes without saying how much we disagree with so much about what he said You know the group of people I actually have a lot of empathy for When it comes to the all the discourse that has happened around this conversation It's like any parent or mother of any kind Especially any parent that has had the blessing of having a child through IVF or surrogacy or things like that. You know, just being a parent is such a gift that like anyone who felt judgment or shame about how they went about having a family because of comments he made. But on the flip side, just, it's always like, just the way the internet goes that now there's a lot of discourse and a lot of comments

that are disparaging of women or even men who've decided to be homemakers. It's like that's unnecessary as well. Like I was raised by a homemaker. Like my mom made the personal choice to like give up, sacrifice so much of her life to raise her children. That was her personal choice. Like, and no one worked harder than my mom.

Like, you know, you don't need to like downplay or discredit moms who want to stay at home or dads who want to stay at home and raise their kids just because, you know, of what someone said about your decision to be in the workforce. And so it's just like we have these reactions. I honestly don't understand why we're giving so much oxygen to some nobody kicker. This guy's a fucking nobody. No one knew who this guy was before he made his comments. And why are we giving him so much oxygen? From what I know about this guy, he is a very devout Catholic who gave a commencement speech at a devout Catholic college. And he gave some some very polarizing but what I understand to be

like your basic conservative religious talking points. And while many of us disagree with those talking points, like he was basically at church. So why are we losing our shits over something and giving this guy so much energy and amplifying his message to the way that we are. The reason why we know this guy's name is because of his critics. Like his, the critics made him famous. I think we need to be mindful of that

and careful about like the messaging that we're spreading. No one's mind was changed out of all this. Like everyone's talking about this topic. You know, like if Nellie and I talk about our family, right, and growing our family, if one day that Nellie and I have to consider IVF or surrogacy, you know, do you think we're gonna sit there and be like, what the fuck did Harrison,

well, what about what Harrison Buckner said? Do you think we're gonna give a fuck about what he said? Or do you think we're gonna consider what he said? We don't give a fuck. Why are we making this guy famous because of the things he said. Every day it's a new headline, like who's reacting to his.

Yeah, it's just like, again, what he said, I couldn't disagree with more, but we're the ones spreading his message. And do you really think that enrollment for this college went down? I'd be willing to gather that it went up. You know what I'm saying? These are very polarizing issues. They've been polarizing for a long time. No one's mind was changed. I don't get why we give it so much oxygen.

Meanwhile, talking about the conversation we just got off with Elizabeth, the NFL, speaking of, has a long-standing domestic abuse problem with its players. I mean, far too many of its players have physically abused their partners. And there are so many instances where the NFL has very poorly handled the situations. They often give longer suspensions for players who have been caught smoking marijuana than for players who have physically assaulted their partners. I mean, it's very sad. But what I don't understand is like, why don't we, why as a society, why aren't we making a bigger deal about that? Why aren't we making that a national story?

Why? Like there are way too many NFL players who have physically assaulted their partners that we don't know about, but we're giving a fucking kicker, like all this fucking attention because he says something that his faith, it's like he's like, we have the right to disagree with him. It is still supposed to be a free country. And I disagree with a lot of what he said, but I don't understand it.

Like Eddie Vedder, there was a story that came out this morning, Eddie Vedder stopped his concert to like address the Harrison Buckner thing and like call them a pussy or whatever it is. Why didn't he address the P Diddy stuff? Like, why are we giving a fucking kicker so much of our fucking attention? I don't understand. It drives me nuts. Anyways, let's stop promoting ideologies and things that we don't believe in,

because that's what the Internet does. You know, like the more we talk about, the more oxygen we give it. And we're giving Harrison Buckner more oxygen than he deserves for how much we're talking about him. Even now we're talking, it's just, it's, I don't gotta, like stop promoting your own fucking bad shit. Anyways, that's all I gotta say about that. No, you know who also is doing that

is fucking Kyle, stupid fucking cook. Stupid fucking Kyle Cook. And you know what? He is the reason that Loverboy sucks. He cannot go on his nationally, nationally, national, national show and be a fucking dick and then expect his company to thrive and people to wanna support him.

He has to be charismatic and charming and people be like, oh God, I love Kyle Cook so much. I wanna buy Loverboy, because he's such a good partner, he's such a good person. But no, he's shit-faced drunk every single fucking episode. He comes in the bed at 4 a.m. because I'm rolling his head. He's like trying to he's trying to kiss on Amanda, wake her up.

Like everything about him makes me want to like any like he talks. He talks. OK, I've never understood him. Like he's a fan favorite for a lot of people, but I've always like, this is a white guy in a mullet. That's drunk, I'm like, I just don't see it. And it just is like, he complains about Loverboy and how it's not doing well and how he's this much in debt

and how he needs Amanda and how it's just, okay, then why are you on this show being a piece of shit? Well, my thing too is that he's constantly talking about how he meet, you know, Amanda's so lazy, she doesn't work. And then he needs her so desperately. Yeah, which one is it? Yeah. It's just like Kyle, your big plan to save your company is to like count on your, your wife as creative director. I mean, that's not a criticism of Amanda. It's just like, well, tell me you have a bigger plan

than making sure that your wife is as fully committed as you are to this company. Which brings me to a letter point, and then I don't understand why Kyle has to go then like disparage Paige and downplay her podcast. It's just like, oh, you guys don't understand how important what I'm doing is. And like, and then like talked about Paige's podcast.

Well, and again, I don't know a lot about the beverage industry, and I'm sure it's got a, it's heavily involved. I do know a little bit about podcast industry. And while I understand, like, you know, there's a lot, I have a podcast can mean a lot of different things to a lot of different people. Paige has a, one of the top podcasts in the world.

And while Kyle is currently losing money, Paige is currently building an empire. And it's not just her podcast, it's her brand. Paige is going to be relevant for a long time. Yes. Paige is like the next Bethany Frankel with hopefully having not gone down the path that Bethany Frankel goes down.

But like, you know, for a long time, Bethany Frankel was like a housewife that, you know, superseded the show, was thought of as an icon in the fashion. She's canonized, yeah. Yeah, in the fashion industry. Like that's the trajectory Paige is on. Paige is crushing life.

Like Paige is making amazing Paige is crushing life. Paige is making amazing decisions for her business and her brand. She's thoughtful, and even on the show, she says things that we go, fuck yeah, Paige, that makes so much sense. I subscribe to what you're doing. And to Natalie's point, it's just like,

why would we wanna support a business where it's like front person is someone who just constantly belittles their partner. Like I don't know what Loverboy stands for, but like apparently. It's not a Loverboy. It doesn't seem very Loverboy-ish. And also like I'm assuming that Kyle,

I don't know what his big like strategy is for Loverboy, but the only time I've heard of Loverboy is while watching Summerhouse. And I'm assuming that's why they start this business, they get a lot of self-promotion from the businesses of talking about the show, but like, have you guys seen or heard about Loverboy outside of Summerhouse? It's big in like the Bravo world, so like a lot of Bravo events will carry Loverboy. I'm wondering if it's like an East Coast thing.

I was gonna say, I feel like maybe it's more popular on the East Coast, but we also. Still niche though, but like. It's niche, yeah. It's a national show, he's got a national Instagram. I'm assuming he'd wanna follow like the Ryan Reynolds like aviation gym model, right? Like why haven't they come up with like catchy,

funny commercials or viral videos? Like where is all this money that they're losing going? He's blaming it on Amanda. Like why haven't they come up with like catchy, funny commercials or viral videos? Like where's all this money that they're losing going? He's blaming it on Amanda. Well, I think I've solved it. I think I've solved it. I think Kyle has lost his passion for Loverboy or since Loverboy is like tanking, he wants to jump ship.

And that's why he gets so mad at Amanda because Amanda can't jump ship. It's like this was his project, but this isn't her project. It's like Amanda has the right to walk away and be like, I need my own project. This was yours. You stay here. But Kyle is like, I want to DJ. That's a, there's a thing though, is like I on its, on its face, I can understand Kyle's frustration with Amanda.

But what I don't understand is how he handles it. It's all about how he handles his frustration and his temper, his reactive personality. And it's like, it doesn't even matter if I, if you can empathize with his POV or share in his frustrations, as soon as he says, fuck you or calls his wife a bitch, you're just like, fuck you, fuck you, man. Immediate L. Do you think it's Amanda's tease with Jesse on social media that also maybe inherently might be fueling Kyle's frustration? I think you gotta think about timing and when they film this show. But I'm sure if that was happening now

maybe that was like seedlings before. No I actually think I'm sure Kyle's frustrated. Like listen like if he really is if he's got a if he took out a loan for four million dollars and your company's losing money like you're gonna be fucking stressed. And if Kyle and Amanda, as a married couple, made a decision as a married couple that Loverboy would be their focus and what they counted on to grow their family

and support their family. But none of that even matters anymore because he's DJing. No, I know, but I'm just saying prior to that, you're right, but prior to that, what I'm saying is I can understand that Amanda's timing probably not the best. While he probably needs the emotional support

from his wife, his wife's like, hey, so I wanna do this other thing. Not great timing, but how he goes about handling it and acting so petulant, and then throws out the whole condescending, like, well, I'll just be a fucking DJ. out he actually does want to be a DJ and is in fact now DJing He's pursuing it. Meanwhile, where is Amanda's bathing suit line? Yeah. No, it's it's it's crazy Just how one-sided it is. I will say I don't think it helped

I think page was on the right but I don't think it helped that she was like Aging Kyle on when he was walking away in the house. What do you mean egging her out? Like if like they started sitting on the couch to like have a cordial conversation and like Kyle walked away and Paige was still yelling. Yeah, but that's because Kyle's talk. But Paige is talking to Kyle like very calmly, trying to like, trying to like, hey, this is I'm I talk to your wife.

This is how she feels. And Kyle just condescendingly is this like you don't you don't understand. It's like you're too stupid to understand my very complicated business. It's all beneath you. You just you just have a podcast. I run a real fucking business like if I'm Paige, at that point, I would be like, well, he said the the high. Podcasting on the after show. Right.

No, but I know, but he was saying some of those very. He said this was very high level. Yeah. And she's like, is it high level that I watch her cry? Yeah. Yeah, is it so high level that. And Kyle's walking away not because he's hurt or something. It's because he doesn't like what's being said to him.

True, true. And Paige is like, you need to hear this. Yeah. Kyle, if Kyle would have said to Paige, Paige, I totally get it. And I recognize that like I probably, it's been about me for a while, but like just the timing is this like right now lover boy is failing. We're losing money and like I need all the support and help. And I just need that kind of emotional support from my wife.

And it just like right now it just, it feels like the last thing I can afford to worry about is, is making sure that Amanda starts her swimsuit line. And maybe that comes across as a little selfish, but I'm a little scared about our business. Like that would land a hell of a lot better than the fucking shit he said, but it's just like, fuck you. I think Kyle just doesn't seem as bad in my eyes, seeing how like, what's his name? Carl acted this episode. Oh my God, they both were trash.

They were, but like in my head, I'd rather have someone yell at me, like upfront, than be like passively like judged by like, so you're gonna leave, but I'm gonna go home by myself with your suitcase. Like that to me is like, just shut up at that point. I think it was, to me, what was the frustrating thing about Carl was just the demands for

the softness. And how condescending that felt. Like I just, it was just like, shut up and agree with me. Meanwhile, Lindsay was, she was being soft. She gave him a year. She was like pleading with Carl to just have a conversation. Just a conversation. Can we talk about it?

Can we just address the things in our relationship? Can I ask questions? You know, like, no, why would you blindly fucking just agree with someone who has a history of bad ideas and bad decisions? You know what I think is very interesting is there's a parallel going on between Kyle and Carl in both of their relationships. Loverboy is failing, it's losing money, and Kyle is immediately going to Amanda.

And like, Amanda's not working hard, Amanda's lazy, Amanda's leaving the company at the worst possible time. Meanwhile, you have Carl, who doesn't have a career, he doesn't have options, he doesn't have a career. He doesn't have options. He doesn't know what he wants to do. He's chosen now Loverboy, a sinking ship, and he's blaming Lindsay. Lindsay's not being soft.

Lindsay's not being a supportive partner. Like they're both insecure and failing in their ventures. So they're blaming their wives or? Him and Kyle need to run off together. It's not blaming, but they're like, they're like putting focus on that. It's causing, it's causing stress in the relationships. It's not love or boy, it's break up boy.

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with code V-I-A-L-L. After you purchase, they'll ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them we sent you. It also just, this summer house episode just reminded me of just like, how do any of these relationships survive these shows? Like, how do any of these, I mean, the Valley where you have like two divorces going on.

Well, they don't. They don't. That's the thing. It's just like, Nan and I were talking about this on our honeymoon in terms of how much we enjoy saying husband and wife to each other. And it like dawned on me. It's just like, that will be a good barometer for our marriage, you know, our relationship.

It's like when we say my wife or my husband, how do we feel? Right now it's just like my wife. And I say it with such pride and such enjoyment. And like it brings a smile to my face every time I say that. Right now, when Kyle talks about Amanda, it feels like my fucking wife. She's such a bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep, bleep. And they talk about how much contentment is the number one thing that ruins relationships. But the job of a reality TV star is to vocalize your contentment for anyone you're feeling contentment about.

And the damage that does to a relationship, I just couldn't imagine watching this back and hearing your partner talk so much shit about you behind your back to your friends. I feel like Paige and Craig really have it figured out, and they need to give the lesson to everyone else of how to have a successful relationship, but also be on these reality TV shows

and be able to talk about issues and stuff that you're dealing with, but in a respectful way. Yeah, they seem to do a good job of it. Maybe part of it is just being on separate shows, but they do talk about each other to an audience point, and when they do, it's not shit talking. It's like, this is the things we've discussed

and worked through and this is how we feel. But like, they never give the impression that they are talking to the audience about things they haven't talked with each other about first. And whether that actually happens with these other couples is unclear, but the perception is that they're sharing it with us first before they share it with each other.

Well, what's interesting too, is that when you watch the after show, Kyle is still very much in the same head space, and then you look at Amanda's perspective, and she's like, it's hard for me to see him cry, I love that man so much, I think he needed to hear it. She's just so much more understanding of him and where he's coming from. And this is what six months later and they've watched the episode back.

Yeah. But what do we make of the video now? There's a lot of, uh, a lot of discourse about, uh, Jesse and Amanda about like a lot of Bravo fans are shipping them or sitting on each other's videos, gorgeous wife. Yeah, like kind of inappropriate stuff. And then Amanda makes a TikTok saying it will never happen, but like just glowing. Just like she is radiating excitement for these rumors about her and Jessie all while being like, guys, it will never happen.

But like if there were rumors about Nellie and some other guy, and she made that video publicly with guys that would never have been, well, I don't know if we could survive that. Again, we're not Team Kyle right now, but I'm embarrassed for Kyle when she put out that video. But on the inverse too, I mean, it kind of makes me a little sad for Amanda

because maybe it's just nice having somebody flirting with her and giving her compliments and whatnot. Whereas her husband is doing the polar opposite. I mean, yeah, her husband fucking sucks right now. And it's like, maybe to have someone like be so nice to her. She's just like, I don't know, kind of nice. I guess, but like your marriage is over at this point. Is it not?

I mean, like how does it's- Like if they're flirting. How does this marriage survive? That's the question. Like now that we're talking about this on our honeymoon, like what if this is just all for show? What if this is just performing, two professional reality TV stars

who just understand the assignment and are like, you know, we're just, we're leaning into all these rumors, we're good, you know, behind all the scenes, Amanda and Kyle are like, we're good, we love each other, we're secure, we're fine, but let's just lean in all this messiness. But that doesn't even track to Natalie's point, why would Kyle, if he had half a brain,

agree to come across so poorly that would have just huge consequences to the brand of his business while his business is currently failing. Like, why would he agree to that? So that doesn't even track. Like, if Wes had a business, it'd be fucking booming. Yeah, I'm buying whatever he's selling. Like, he's so charming. He's so charismatic, you like love his personality, you like want to support him, you want him and Sierra together. And then Kyle on the other hand, you just like, how do you, you just can't. Speaking of West though, and he is very charming,

but what do we make of his comments around, I think it's interesting because I think West is the modern man. You know, how old's West? What, 28? Yeah, and this isn't a criticism of West as much as it is just like, I think how young men look at relationships, this fear of a label. It's just like. Well, he said something interesting.

He said that he wants to get his shit together before they put a label, but I'm like, what does that even mean? Do you guys agree with that? Like, do you have to have your shit together before putting a label on something that is already happening? And also, the label is boyfriend and girlfriend. That's what I'm saying. It's also something that's easy to dissolve if it's not working out. It's not like a divorce. They're essentially already doing it. Like, they're just putting a label on something that they're already doing. Like they're on a date, a beautiful date right now, horseback riding, and he's talking about

how he wants to get his shit together before they put a label on their relationship that's already happening. It's a cop out. That's a typical guy saying of like, oh, I just need to get my shit together. Yeah, but I think it's resulting in like back in the day, back when I was dating, like you were 18 or 19, you would meet someone and be like, I don't know, I fucking, I think I's resulting in like back in the day, back when I was dating, like you were 18 or 19,

you would meet someone and be like, I don't know, I fucking, I think I love you. And then you'd have this like toxic relationship where you didn't know how to handle your emotions and you'd get together, you'd break up, it would fuck you up. But like what happened, you would build emotional resiliency.

That's how you evolve in relationships is to deal with some of this hurt and heartbreak and messiness that feelings bring out in you in love. And Wes seems like a really charming, great guy, but I think this new kind of, how men are approaching dating these days and the unwillingness to even go into a relationship so that they have expectations of them,

because it's like the idea that he can't text random women is like beyond it you know because he can't call Sierra his girlfriend it's just like all these men are are becoming less and less emotional resilient you know it's just like what's going to happen when Wes actually meets someone that he truly falls in love with. Well we also didn't have situationships like 10 years ago. Like that's kind of a new development where it's like, oh, we don't have to put a label on things,

but we do everything that a relationship consists of. That to me is the same thing that Paige said in the after show where she was like, I'm sitting here considering like bringing babies into this world and you're afraid to put a label on something. Yeah, cause they don't want the emotional responsibility of having to deal with like hurt or pain

or their own feelings. They would rather just avoid any of those like emotional connections, but again, they're not learning any of that kind of emotional resilience that is required to like be in an adult relationship, but like someday West is going to fall head over heels in love with someone and in that moment he he's gonna be a thirty-some year old man who has is gonna have no idea how to deal with the feelings of inadequacy or fear of like losing a

relationship or abandonment all of these normal feelings that come in relationships when all of a sudden He's just like I'm in love with you And I don't know how to handle it and she and she has the power relationship because he's just fully like Head over heels in love. He's not like hit and he's not gonna wait around he's not evolving He's not well He's just not gonna be able to handle it because he hasn't like like emotionally dove into any relationship He's just always has one foot out the door.

And I think it's less about that. Like I agree with Natalie that it's a cop out, but I think it's deep down, unfortunately, he knows he doesn't like Sierra in that way. And like her pushing it off, he's like, well, if I can't get sex, then like, he needs to talk to other women because he knows like this might not be. Like emotionally, she's not stimulating him to the point that he wants to commit.

Maybe, but he also admitted to like, this has been his pattern his whole life. He also like offered for her to come home to meet his family and whatnot. True. So which I also thought was kind of strange because usually you save that for a relationship. A serious one.

Yeah, and he's like, well, we're not gonna put a label on it, but what about coming home for Thanksgiving with my family? I'm like, that's really strange. And I like that she called that out. She was like, why are we talking about that before you'll talk about putting a label on the screen?

Just so you can text anyone you want. Or be able to ghost when you're over it instead of having to have a breakup conversation. That's genuinely all I'm seeing is it's cowardice. I think he wants her to be like his holiday. Have you heard that term where you just have someone to bring around so you can bring to events? He likes having a girlfriend when it's nice to have a girlfriend. He has no interest in being a boyfriend.

When I don't think, I unfortunately don't think that he likes Ciara in the way that if he found someone else like what you were saying, he wouldn't know how to handle it. Like when he finds out one person that he really likes. Yeah, because you know, men, they are, they are simple that way. It's just like, you know, when they're just,

they can't control their emotions, you know? It's like, I will say that's the one through line with all these Bravo shows. It's just like, the timing might be way off, but like all men need is to feel appreciated, you know? Whether they deserve to be appreciated or not is another conversation, but that's really all men need is they just wanna feel appreciated, that's it.

If you want, get a guy to do. If you want get a guy to do whatever you can get him You can get a guy to do anything if you just pat him on the back and say I appreciate you Literally, it's it's that simple. That's all Carl wants to I think at the end of the day We all owe Lindsay a big apology because when Carl left without her suitcase Yeah, I wanted to throw my computer across the room. That was just absurd. Even how he went about it with like, oh, it's coming with me.

Like, well, why not? You both live together. Like, why is this all of a sudden shock to you? He was punishing Lindsay. 100%. He couldn't get out of that door faster. His explanation in the after show too. He was still like doubling down.

He was just like, well, we drive home together every weekend. So? It's like, okay. I was like, it's a three hour drive. Like, you've never driven home. Listen to a podcast, you know? Like, come on, man.

And then on the after show, he also said that like, Amanda and Kyle, like when, when Lindsay like told Kyle about, you know, the fact that she knew that he was cheating on Amanda, they still drove home together. And the way that he said it, he was like, and Kyle was still able to drive home with her. I was like, wait, what about Amanda, first of all? And also like, you have done nothing to make Lindsay feel like you want to sit in a three hour car ride with her.

Like she's tried to talk to you about your argument and all you've done is complain about her behind her back to your friends. And what about the respect of what she asked for, which was space? Yeah. Also, did we forget that four weeks ago- An afternoon. An afternoon of space. Three hours.

Well, and Carl four weeks ago drove by himself to the summer house, like made Lindsay drive by himself. So that's where I'm like, okay, now it's a double standard. Because he wanted to avoid a fight. Yeah. And now he wants to use it to create a fight. Yeah. I think he wanted the camera time too, of them being in the car and awkward to validate

his reasoning. Cause now we see for a fact that he does poke at her. The mocking, the I'll make a PowerPoint. I was like, you don't need to be condescending, let alone throwing her past relationships in her face. And she really was just trying to have a conversation. Asking questions. She's asking questions, trying to be supportive, trying to explain why she was asking the questions

that she was asking. I don't know how she could have been less confrontational. She did absolutely nothing wrong in this situation and if that's how he's been talking to her off camera, everything makes a lot more sense than just Lindsay's, a one-sided anger person, an angry person. She's not. I mean, they definitely could not be less compatible.

And I do think Carl made the right choice to end the relationship. And what I hope for Lindsay is that she just like, the ego sting of being broken up with on camera But like once she gets over that I'm assuming she's going to be thrilled Yeah, I have to wonder I mean one question to have for Lindsay after watching this back Are you glad to be out of this relationship would be a question I'd have for her because I would hope she'd say yes She has a new man already too. So

Good for her. There we go. Well, anyways, Lindsay, we are sorry. We rushed to judgment. The first two episodes painted you dirty, but I'm happy you're out of it. I was gonna say, Carl needs the therapy that Jesse had from the Valley. The spiritual retreat with like drugs. But did it even work?

No, I think it might on him. My favorite part is after he got back from the retreat, he was wearing a beanie. And he like comes in all like- Talking slower. I feel like it might on him. My favorite part is after he got back from the retreat, he was wearing a beanie. And he like comes in all like. Talking slower. He's like, hey, so you know, just. And he like gives her this long hug. Like smells her.

And she was like, get me out of here. She fucking hates him. She hates him. Babe, I hope you never look at me the way Michelle looks at Jesse. It is so obvious. To the point, I have second never look at me the way Michelle looks at Jesse. It is so obvious. To the point, I have second, third, fourth hand embarrassment for Jesse. Just the way, the loathingness that Michelle has for him.

I mean, it's- And he just keeps, I feel like he knows and he still says shit. The whole, oh, when they're in Big Bear, this whole vacation is about sex. We're gonna have so much sex. And she's like, no, we're not. And he just keeps like throwing it at her and like even the, I don't know,

the fight on the beach was weird. The nose. Yeah. The self-defense fight that like got way too real. Yeah, why are you fake fighting with your wife? I don't understand that. Listen, I think a little wrestling is like, a little playful, ha ha.

Yeah, a little tap on the booty maybe. Why are we going to the face? To be fair, the fight by the lake was egged on by like, It was also her idea. Mia, right? Yeah, I'm not blaming him for that. It was clearly an accident. It's just kind of a weird lie.

He didn't say sorry. No, and Connor and I talked about this because we were like, nothing good ever comes from these types of situations. It's like, oh, we're going to play fight always. And it's usually the woman. It's the same as like when you're fucking kids and you're like jumping on the bed. It's like someone's going to get hurt and no one listens

and then someone falls off the fucking bed. And the whole like Danny getting mad at him for like the towel. Yeah, I couldn't really understand that. The towel or something. He like wrapped his towel around Danny's neck and then like put him over his back and it was just aggressive and. Oh yeah, that would have pissed me off. Why are you fucking choking me?

Yeah, but I feel like. It's an aggressive mood. Well, and it's after Jesse was running around jumping over chairs and like screaming at people. So it's like, okay. It really took Jesse all of 10 seconds to come back from this retreat and go right back to the old Jesse.

Once the beanie was off. Yeah. Like it wasn't the drugs, it was the beanie. It's just the beanie. And I love Danny a lot. I think he's a really good guy on the show. So I'm like, the fact that he's kind of the scapegoat or the person that I feel like it's kind of bullied

by the other guys where it was, he was the one that got pants. He's the one that has the towel wrapped around. that has the only fucking decent husband on the show. Everyone else is this fucking like petulant overreactive Child man. Yeah, here he is just doing bare minimum shit or he's just like just being a good husband You know taking care of his kids, you know not taking the bait about who here in the room would you fuck? It's like like, nobody, my wife. It's like not that hard.

And him and his wife have a very healthy sex life that she still like wants to, like she's like, we have clearance after having twins. I'd be like, do not touch me. And he supports her in her like postpartum like advocacy and like exploration. Exactly. And the guy's made out to look like a hero.

Truly. Doing the absolute terrible. Maybe someone else's baby moon isn't your like time to have sex, like, sexy time. But I just thought that was funny. Like, this is gonna be our sex vacation. It's like, this is someone else's baby. I think he grosses her out.

I do think, like, being away from home, being away from your kid in a new, like, place, in your own room, like, he does give the ability to have sex. So I like understand where he's coming from, but I definitely don't think he can read a room of like, she doesn't want to have sex with you. She's cringing. She chose the room that had like three beds in it. She was like, whichever one, just not together.

Not a king bed. She'd rather sleep with any of those other men. I am so glad that Jackson and Brittany are split. They're separated. So I don't have to every single recap, beg Brittany to divorce him because he, every single, I mean, he just like proves he's a terrible human being every single episode.

The fact that she's too afraid to have him find out that she was- That her stomach hurt. That her stomach hurt for fear that she might be accused of having a drink, which is all by the way, she's allowed to do. Everybody else was. It's sad, it's giving very emotionally.

Emotionally abusive? Yeah, or the fact that he won't let her watch a video of Cruz. I will say no, that was a little valid on Jax's part. I do think he was very. That's how he handled it. It was's part. I do think he was very aggressive and it was like super unnecessary. But yeah, I don't want to, I also like,

I don't need to hear a video of River crying. Yeah, but if neither of us would yell at the other. No, absolutely not. Or squat at your hand. But I'm saying I do think he was valid and being like, I don't need to hear that. Turn your volume down. Like I would be the same way.

Like please let's not play a video of River screaming. Like we don't, I don't need to hear that, turn your volume down. I would be the same way, like, please let's not play a video of River screaming. I don't need to listen to that. I'm not with her, she's okay, she's safe, I don't need to hear that four hours later on repeat at the highest volume possible. It's just how they handle it. Do you guys have any friends or people in your lives who like a couple who fights in public

or like in front of you? I mean, not, like a lot of my married friends, like who all live in Wisconsin, we don't hang out with them enough to know. The ones, yeah, I feel like our friends here, like they don't do that. I don't think we hang out with them enough that there's a level of comfort.

So they answer your question, no. But I don't, also like, I don't know if we're that close with any married couples, I mean, other than Sierra No. But I don't, also, I don't know if we're that close with any married couples. I mean, other than Sierra and Connor, they're fucking, no, Sierra. All day, every day. No, we actually have a talk about that too where we feel that if you're arguing in front of people

and especially with no qualms, that's the indication that the relationship is over. I mean, that's one of mine and Natalie's, to me, it's like that's one of the most sacred things. Every relationship has their problems, you can get really mad, you might even wanna raise your voice, or certainly every relationship,

there's moments where you have to apologize, for like, I'm sorry I said what I said or how I said it. But to do that in public versus doing it in a private setting, to me is, if you're willing to embarrass yourself and your partner around other people, that just, it shows such a lack of respect for your partner. Because, and to me that's more premeditated.

Like, you know, again, because there's always gonna be a moment where you're frustrated at your partner. But to do that in public is infinitely worse to me. It's so much worse. It's just so much worse. Yeah, it's like in public, I need you to be like, even if you don't agree, to be like, you know, hell yeah, babe, that's awesome.

Then we go home and listen, I don't know. I don't know what I'm like. I don't know. Yeah, absolutely. You no longer care, that's what it is. Yeah, you just don't, exactly. It is you just don't care about what people perceive of how much you respect or don't.

Like people, your community, people should, if people don't think that you respect each other, then you clearly, you know what I'm saying? Like if you give off that vibe that you don't respect each other in a relationship, then like there must not be a lot of respect. Because if it's gone that far. I was really disappointed where I really wanted Kristin

and Zach to crash this party. Like I was a little disappointed that we didn't get through classic Vanderpump. Like, you're not invited to this trip. Did you have a baby moon? I've never heard of a baby moon before this. Really? Yeah. I've never heard of a baby moon where you invite all your friends to it.

Okay. I think it's, people do, like everything's, you know, do whatever you want to do. We went to New York for our baby moon. It's when we interviewed Gypsy. Oh, and you had your photo shoot. And we kind of made that, yeah, I did my maternity shoot and we got massages at the Ritz. And we like did a, that was like considered our baby moon.

But yeah. So it's a typical thing that happens. Okay. Same as like a push present. Like I heard that. Heard that. Okay. I'm excited for that.

But as much as I wanted Kristin and Zach to like crash the party, I think too much was being made about like being excluded. Like I'm glad she didn't go because I think that's like a healthy thing for both of them. But I think Janet making a point not to say her name is a little mean girlish. I don't know.

I just like, I kind of disagree. Like we're allowed to exclude people. Like you don't have to invite everyone to everything. No, I think she's allowed to exclude her, but I think making it a point of like, everybody has to put money in this jar if you say Kristen. And then she was the first one to do it.

Janet is so fucking messy. Well, and that's following like the spy and then following like her talking with Zach on the phone. I'm like, okay, I think Janet's just. Well, she was the first one to bring up Kristen in that type of way once they were on the boat, so I hope she put money in the jar. Exactly. Yeah, now she's coming out and saying that she just wanted to surround herself

with, like, for her pregnancy. Which is valid. I'm just like, sometimes, I don't know, I think it's okay to exclude people. I agree. I think she wants to exclude her to talk about her, though, is what I mean. I do think Zach's reaction was like, ehh, reacting.

Like, why was he sobbing? Like, I get, like, okay, feeling left out, like, that fucking sucks. I do think Zach's reaction was like, a little overreacting. Like why was he sobbing? Like I get like, okay, feeling left out, like that fucking sucks. I hate feeling left out, but like, he's like uncontrollably, he's like, I'm trying to stop. Like, why are you trying to stop running over this? Like you're not invited to Big Bear.

Yeah. It's like, make your own trip. It's not like in France. Make your own trip. Big Bear. Interesting though. It's not even winter. Yeah.

Interesting though, how they were like, this is, it's cause you're not in a couple. Like, I think it's okay to exclude people, but to give that as an excuse when then Jasmine came without her partner, and it was just like, yeah, cop-out answer to say like, oh, well, it's a couple's thing. Like, you could have just said, like, we don't want you. There's context that we're missing, I think,

because Zach and Janet have this, like, history of tension pre the show, so. I think it was just an excuse built up. So what did y'all think of Vanderpump reunion episode one? Great, I don't know, it was captivating. What do we think of the Lala and Katie dispute? That's the big part, yeah. Listen, I think like her, I get Katie venting to Lala. I get her being like, hey, you know, we're, they're friends.

They're not filming the show. She's just like calling her friend to be like, she like vent, like get this off my chest. Lala being like, well, then you need to do this on camera. Like caring more about the job than being a good friend felt weird to me. Yeah, I think what you're seeing with Lala this whole season is how much she demonstrates

just how like friendships in general, most friendships that we have, I don't think we realize are just transactional. Like very few of the friendships we have in our life are more meaningful than that. Like have an emotional connection, true loyalty is there. Like especially most friendships

that you start as adult life, there's like a transaction. It's just like, hey, I'm kind of lonely. I need, are you lonely too? Let's hang out. And hopefully that evolves into something else. A lot of friendships start by having the ability to like, I need this from something or do you share it

in this interest too? And it's very transactional. And I think you're seeing with Lala, her showing time and time again, that all of her relationships on Vanderpump are very transactional. And I think you're seeing with Lala, her showing time and time again that all of her relationships on Vanderpump are all transactional. She's just very like, what can I get out of this relationship? Which is why she can go from how she handled herself at the reunion on season 10 to how she's handling herself all throughout season 11. It's just like she has a limit to like how much she is willing to do for someone if she doesn't receive

what she thinks is fair compensation for whatever she's doing for that friendship. Where Katie on the other hand, is the most consistent character on this show. And Katie is time and time again, and sometimes to a fault, right? Cause she actually has real loyalty and sometimes real loyalty is having the back

of someone where at the end of the day you're like, you know what, maybe I shouldn't have like had their back, but I just wanted to be their friend, you know? And Katie even pointed out that she is a tough judge of character. Character matters to Katie. Character doesn't matter to everyone. It's another thing like loyalty.

Everyone says that character matters to them, and it doesn't. Like I don't think character matters to Lala all that much. Lala has literally found a way to monetize her messiness season. Follow the money, you know? You see how Lala is making money, and she is like, oh, I need to get paid.

Where like, yeah, to Natalie's point, it's just like, I am sure that Katie has been frustrated with Ariana at some point throughout this whole process. But Katie has decided that her actual friendship with Ariana is more meaningful than Vanderpump. And I don't think Katie deserves to be criticized or her character questioned or her authenticity questioned just because she is deciding to be more of a friend to her friend than caring about the show.

I do, I was a little confused by Lala bringing up the message that Katie sent about you should fire your lawyers and get a therapist, you fucking clown. I don't know what that was. Or threatening to ruin her business. I didn't really understand that. So she said that like Katie, I mean, it sounded like a heated fight.

Like it added context to why Lala might be frustrated throughout the season, because she might've felt like abandoned on this topic. She thought like this approach against Ariana that she thought they were united on, but I don't think it landed. But that's the point is that Lala has, she has no, she doesn't like kind of stand for anything don't think that's the point is that Lala has she she has no

She doesn't like kind of stand for anything. No, it's all very transactional. It's just like hey It's just like who are we shitting on now Lala? It's just kind of like alright. It's it's it's Tom and Rachel All right. Well now it's season 11. I guess are we shitting on Ariana now? It's like oh, I didn't get this for me It's just like it You know you never really know what Lala believes in other than herself. When it says a lot about Katie that even if she did rant to Lala about Ariana, like she didn't bring that in front of the cameras.

Yeah. So that goes to your loyalty point. Yeah. What are your thoughts on like talking about a friend to another friend and venting? Kind of just depends on how you sit. Right. You know, it's like, hey, you know, I'm a little frustrated

with them right now. How can I handle this? So it's like, you know, I want to be supportive to my friend, but like, you know. Yeah. But also, like, I think Ariana made a really good point. I don't know if it was in the preview for the next episode or if it was in this one, but Ariana saying to Lala, like, oh, I forget you're the loudest. And so therefore you're right.

It was in the preview. I think it was in the preview for next week. Yeah. you're the loudest and so therefore you're right. It was in the preview. I think it was in the preview for next week. And I feel like that is just such, it really, that just reigns true for everything. I feel like LaLa is and like even last reunion, she does get so loud and she gets so activated. And I do feel like she's,

there is no right or wrong in her head. It's just like, I'm loud. My opinion matters. Yours doesn't. I don't know. No, she needs to do. She needs to disengage. there is no right or wrong in her head. It's just like, I'm loud, my opinion matters, yours doesn't, I don't know. No, she needs to do, she needs to disengage. Disengage, bitch. She also, she is like, the way she talks about being a mom

and her kids, like it makes me, it's like, I'm so happy for her to like be bringing in this nether kid. I can't imagine how hard it is to like do this custody battle with Randall and have to share Ocean with someone that she just fucking despises. And I don't know, I'm really so happy for her to bring in this new child and have her all to herself

and not have to share her with a terrible human being. Yeah, because it is, I mean, being a parent, like it's hard enough to be a parent, we have each other, you know? And to do it by yourself is a scary thing. So like, that's another thing. It's just like, you just wish Lala would just, and I get it, she wants to feed her family

and she's support her business, but like, isn't there a middle ground? Isn't it okay to demonstrate some loyalty then? I feel like she's only shown loyalty to Sheena. Well, yeah, until she told Katie that Sheena and Tom had hooked up in the past or kissed or whatever in Vegas. Well, that's another thing too, but I mean, Lala did make a good point too in terms of like Ariana being like the popular, the fan favorite.

And I feel like you're seeing that with Sheena. Like I said this before, from what I can tell, it seems like Tom Sandoval is in fact a better friend to Sheena than Ariana is. That's the optics, right? Maybe Ariana disagrees with that statement, who knows? But they seem to have more in common. And it seems like Sheena is afraid to not be friends with Ariana

and because of the transactional benefits of that friendship. Right. You know, we're, and maybe Ariana doesn't give enough of a friendship to Sheena that, where Sheena should have loyalty to Ariana. You know, I don't know. It's also kind of what you said in the past about how Vanderpump rules is very much Sheena and Lala's bread and butter. Like this is their life where Ariana now has all of these other opportunities that I know Sheena said on her podcast about how she has mixed feelings about Ariana claiming that she'd be fine if this was the end of Vanderpump rules. And I'm like, at the same time,

what do you expect from her? But I understand you wanting to be friends with her, wanting her to come back to the show to make sure that the show is still going. But with everything that's happened, I don't really see where we're gonna pick up and start over with. Where we're like, Ariana, how was Love Island? Like, you know what I mean? Like, I'm just like, where would we go next? So I'm like, it would make sense that it would be over.

But for Sheena and Lala, this is their everything. Does Vanderpump need Ariana to survive? I don't think so. I don't think so. Ariana hasn't really brought anything to this season. I think she has. I think they know that she's- I mean, conversations about her, sure. More things they know that she's like the most,

like obviously fan favorite, but like she brings the storylines from like the beginning. Well, and scan the balls about her. So we've talked about Ariana the least in a sense that like, I mean, you know, for all their messiness, Lala and Sheena have been the stars of this, you know, they're giving the best commentary, you know,

they're, they are performing, you know, you're seeing the benefits of this, you know, they're giving the best commentary. You know, they are performing. You know, you're seeing the benefits of their hard earned work, of them caring more about the show than these friendships. Like it's paying off. Like from an entertainment standpoint, I would miss Lala and Sheena on Vanderpump than I would miss Ariana.

This is a good bookend for Ariana. And that's what I'm thinking like, maybe it's just like a fresh start with Vanderpump, because we've spent two episodes talking about Scandival and then the repercussions of Scandival. So it's like, that's where I'm saying where I'm like, the storylines kind of have to end and start over. Because they also definitely needed her this season. Yeah.

Like, she needed to be there, but I think it's a good way for them to restart. I think to Natalie's point earlier, there's a lot of interesting stuff going on with Lala that we could focus on, you know, with her pregnancy, with all of that. So like, I think that there is a path forward without Ariana.

Totally. Unless they leave and join the Valley. There's also a path forward for them to take those storylines to the Valley, which would make sense. Then there's speculation that Lala is, like, is it auditioning for the Valley or? No.

She shut that down, yeah. She shut that down. Well, so she said that she didn't buy a house in the Valley to be on the Valley, it was all she could afford. Wasn't it like five million? At three million dollars. Yeah. Well, I mean- Three million something.

The Valley compared to Beverly Hills is cheaper. Oh yeah. Yeah, yeah. More land also, like right around right here. The Valley is to Beverly Hills is cheaper. Oh yeah. More land also. Yeah, the Valley is a big place. There's a lot of people who buy houses in the Valley. I don't think it's just to be on a TV show. What were your thoughts on Rachel saying that she feels Lalo really does get it because she's experienced it firsthand

and it's validating in a way to have that representation on VPR when I'm not there. What representation? Referring to, when I'm not there What representation? As I'm seeing her really connect to the different parts of being in an abusive narcissistic relationship There's like a common thread there So I'm assuming she is now referring to her relationship with Tom and suggesting that she was in that that was an abusive Narcissistic relationship. I also saw another comment from that she mentioned on her her podcast admitting that the reason she's suing Ariana is because Ariana sent it to her. She like just came out kind of and said that it the whole the

whole revenge porn lawsuit is that Ariana sent it to Rachel not to anyone else and I just like I've really truly given up on her. I really was hoping for redemption. I hope this would be something that she could learn from. I'm so like far past her cheating, like the mistake she made. Unfortunately, that's something that happens. Many people have made that mistake.

Some people learn from it, some people don't. Rachel has at every fucking turn, every fucking opportunity she has been given to make an excuse and not take accountability, she has taken the bait to levels of disgustingness. I think she is the lowest level of character person out there. She has doubled and tripled down.

She has victimized Ariana, and then now she victimizes her even more by suing her. And now it's like, and she's done nothing. What has Tom done to her? You know, like, is it so hard to believe? Honestly, this reunion, it's amazing how the terrible things Tom says, like, and by terrible, I mean, stupid. Like the best, the smartest thing he said during the reunion was him acknowledging that he's just like not the smartest guy. And I've kind of tried to say that to the audience

with my interactions with Tom, which is just like, you know, I don't think he's that sophisticated. And I'm not even trying to say it like, I'm not trying it to be mean, but him recognizing that he's not the smartest guy, it's just like, you know, he's just says things that just put like dig a bigger and bigger hole for him

But like one of my favorite things Also most irritating things is when reality TV stars like try to define things on television Like between Tom and Lala trying to define grooming Both like not getting it right, you know It's just like or you know when they when reality TV stars try to define gaslighting or all this shit it's always kind of comical but it's just like no is it that hard to believe that Rachel seduced Tom no of course it's not hard to believe I think Rachel is a just horrible person just horrible just completely yuck anything and I think

she's dangerous Tom Sandoval has taken more accountability than Rachel has. And Tom hasn't gone after Ariana. She hasn't tried to sue her, you know? But Rachel, since the scandal came out, she has gone after Sheena in the legal system. She's gone after Tom in the legal system. She's gone after Ariana in the legal system. She's denied how close she was to Ariana. And made a whole podcast that was supposed to be

about growth and mental health, about recapping Vanderpump rules and everything that said about her. I don't think I could think less of a person than I think of Rachel, Raquel, fuck it. Why am I even trying to call her Rachel at this point? Why am I even trying to be respectful? I respect the name change,

but it's hard for me to even keep track of it. She's kind of the definition of to circle back, bring it all back together of what you mentioned in the beginning about people like Just starting rumors about themselves. Like she wants the spotlight. So she's spotlighting her own. Yeah I think it is just like an attention. But are people buying her bullshit? People are buying it I've seen posts of like people being like, oh my god I saw Rachel in public and they're like smiling in the pictures and it's like, okay And she's not a victim here.

Like she, along with Tom Sandoval, victimized someone else, Ariana. And she was just as part of it. And like, I absolutely believe Tom Swartz in all this. You know, it's just like she was, she- Sandoval? No, Swartz was the one who was immediately like, Rachel is not a victim in this. Like she, she.

Orchestrated, was equally as guilty. Yeah, like sought this out, you know, went for it, like was just as Machiavellian if not more, or in terms of trying to hide it and going behind people's backs. But I'm like, it's also right in front of you. I mean, how bold to be at your affair, your partner's, or their partner's house, their partner's parties.

It's not like she was just hanging out with Tom Sandoval alone and didn't know that they weren't broken up. You were around a couple while they're kissing, hanging out and still having an affair. Do we think that she's gonna go to something about her that opens on May 27th? She's on the no-fly list there.

I was gonna say. Do not sell too. Like what would happen? It just grosses me out beyond belief what Rachel is trying to do. And it grosses me out even more that people are buying that bullshit as if she could just co-op these like narcissist words

and to lump herself in with a group of people who truly have been victimized by, you know, narcissists and abusers and, and to claim that she's a part of this community is disgusting. I couldn't agree more. No. Anything else we have before we wrap it up? Lala in shorts flirting all season. How do we feel about that? This was also a big point on the after show. They were all discussing it.

They did both call each other hot. Let them flirt. Yeah, let them flirt. It's harmless, but at the same time I'm like... I think Schwartz is in a happy relationship. So we know that that didn't go anywhere. Right. If anything. Yeah.

Maybe it's that maybe the producer is trying to make it go somewhere. Storyline for season 12. Yeah, right. I don't know. I mean, I don't think that Lala and Katie's relationship is headed for a good place after this episode. So, I don't know.

I'm personally team Katie, because I think that she can vent to her friend and not have her friend then air it on national TV. But, you know, to Natalie's point, I do think Lala's journey is, but those are two separate things to me, you know? Yeah, I mean, Lala's only argument is for the sake of the show, you know?

And I will say, like, for all the fans, especially what I always find it interesting when it comes to like, especially Scandival, or Rachel, or Ariana, or Lala, this whole group, you know? It's just like, if you've been a fan of this franchise for, let's say, its inception, I think you do have to recognize, and you hear Tom Swartz talk about,

to imply this, I think, a lot, where they are making a TV show, and what goes into making the show that they make and the sacrifice, they do give of their lives, and they are willing to be messy and then allow people like us and shows like us or just fans who have all this commentary. And that is, it's a lot to do that, you know? And I just think it's kind of a very interesting, I think we just have to recognize before we start like acting like they're above like redemption or, you know, like, you know, it's,

I don't know. It's just kind of an interesting element to it. But at the same time, like with Lala and Katie's, again, it's her consistency that makes it easy to have Katie's back time and time again. Because Katie's never pretended that she doesn't get mad at people, but there's back time and time again. Because Katie's never pretended that she doesn't get mad at people, but there's a time and a place for it. And sometimes true loyalty will trump her interest in the show. And you can be authentic while deciding not to

reveal a frustration you had a week ago about a friend that you may no longer share or maybe you had that conversation. So it's as much easier to have Katie's back than Lala's. I'm excited for part two. Same. I have no interest in seeing Joe though. I'll end it with this. Joe reminds me of another bit of advice they give to people that they often don't take across the board. This isn't advice to anyone else. Never be someone's unicorn. Never be someone's white whale, so to speak. They will never fucking let you forget about it.

Can you explain that to me? I know, like, what is a unicorn in this term? Swarch is Joe's unicorn. Swarch is the, I can't believe that I'm dating this guy. I can't believe I found him, or a guy being like, I can't believe she likes me. this guy. I can't believe I found him. Or a guy being like, I can't believe she likes me. Or something. Now I understand.

No, you give him the power just because if, or when you decide, or you realize, or like especially, you know, if you love who you love. But like in Swartz's case, it was pretty clear that Swartz was never into Joe as much as Joe was into him. But Swartz did the very foolish thing that a lot of guys do, guys are more guilty of this, of just like kind of, especially because they get horny

and they want a little sex, but they'll entertain someone they're not that interested in knowing that the person's obsessed with them. Yeah. Like super excited about them. And it just, I say like a lot of bachelor guys, it's like don't just casually hook up with a fan who's not going to get over the fact that they can't believe they hooked up with you.

If you're not that serious about them, they will never let you forget it. They will be the ones be like, no, we were actually dating and they'll see things very differently than you. And it's just such a huge mistake to be someone's unicorn because they will never fucking shut up about it. Just like Joe won't shut up about it. She's still going on lives being like, no, we were a boyfriend and girlfriend

and like, no, I still, they were gonna end up together. It's just, she's saying this crazy shit. All because like, Svartzis gave her a taste of something she's wanted for so long that she will never let it go. Date your equals. Like don't waste your time hooking up with someone who you would never actually consider dating.

Or don't hook up with somebody that you put on a pedestal because in the same way that Joe's looking at Tom, like he's above her, but like can't believe that they're together, he's able to breadcrumb her, tell her five years from now we'll get married or whatever. And she's believing that. And for him, he's already in another relationship.

So that he's outwardly having that title with. Yeah, I don't even see that as like right criminal, it's just like. I feel like it's like keeping her around to where it's like telling her what she wants to hear. But again, like we are talking about adults here, and at some point we have to like expect adults to make adult decisions for themselves.

If you're gonna go after your unicorn to not dilute yourself and hear what you wanna hear and cherry pick things that, you know, they say or ignore other, you know, all the times that Tom was like, hey, we're never gonna date, or hey, I don't see this happening. No, she just ignored that. Yeah, and she heard the five years later. Yeah, she hears the five years later.

Is that Tom breadcrumbing her or is that her? It's giving false, like if he would have just said, hey, like never gonna date, but like love hooking up with you, but he would never be that direct either. In a perfect world, it would be great if we were all as considerate to everyone else as we should be considerate to ourselves, but no one's gonna protect our hearts better than we are.

And we are responsible for our own feelings more than anyone else. And I just think we have to take fucking responsibility and accountability for who we associate ourselves with and who we involve ourselves with. And suppose it's just fucking blaming it on everyone else when it doesn't go our way. And Joe got exactly what she wanted,

which is to be on this fucking TV show. So I have zero sympathy for her. Anyways, we'll get into it next week. Thank you guys so much for listening. We have a very exciting episode of Going Deeper this week. Brian Kelly, formerly of Florida Georgia Line, and his wife, Brittany, are with us for Going Deeper. Should be a great episode.

Be sure to tune in. We'll see you then. Bye.