The Viall Files - E758 RR - Our Pregnancy Scare, Summer House Finale, Caitlin Clark, and RHONJ Canceled w/Genesis Rodriguez

Episode Date: June 4, 2024

Welcome back to reality recap… Today we discuss the Summer House Finale and the long-awaited scene of Carl and Lindsay breaking off their engagement. Meanwhile, we dive into the world of Vanderpump and the Valley with Genesis Rodriguez. Was Scheana and Lala set up by producers, who should have a spin-off, and is this the end of Vanderpump Rules? Finally, is RHONJ’s canceled reunion a sign of an inevitable recast? We answer all of these burning questions… “How do you try not to spread a rumor… You either don’t, or you do. ”  Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes. To Order Nick’s Book Go To: http://www.viallfiles.com  If you would like to get some texting advice send an email to [e-mail] with “Texting Office Hours” in the subject line! To advertise on the show, contact [e-mail] or visit https://www.advertisecast.com/TheViallFiles  THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Huggies - Learn more at https://www.Huggies.com  Manscaped - Our friends at MANSCAPED have crafted the TOTAL package for his special day. Get 20% Off + Free Shipping, with the code VIALL at https://www.Manscaped.com  Article - Article is offering our listeners $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more. To claim, visit https://www.ARTICLE.COM/VIALL and the discount will be automatically applied at checkout. ZOA Energy - Get some Big Dwayne Energy and order ZOA Energy today. Find out where you can find it at https://www.ZOAEnergy.com and fine retailers like Amazon, 7-Eleven, Costco, Circle K and more. Nutrafol - For a limited time, Nutrafol is offering our listeners $10 off your first month’s subscription and free shipping when you go to https://www.Nutrafol.com and enter the promo code THEVIALLFILES. Vessi - Dive into excitement, embrace the thrill, and create unforgettable memories! Visit https://www.Vessi.com/VIALL and enjoy an instant 15% off your first order at checkout. Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @genirodriguez@justinkaphillips @leahgsilberstein @dereklanerussell Timestamps: 00:00 - Intro 11:57 - Pregnancy Scare 18:31 - Lioness 26:37 - Vanderpump Rules 01:01:37 - Summerhouse 01:27:53 - The Valley 01:37:24 - RHONJ Reunion Canceled 01:52:35 - Outro

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Manscape.com for 20% off plus free shipping with code V-I-A-L-L. What's going on everybody? Welcome back to another fantastic episode of the Vow Files Reality Recap Edition. I am your host Nick joined by the household household willies, some of the household. Sierra is still in Paris, Paris, France, getting her croissant on. We didn't tell her to go to that chicken place. We should have done that. We can text her and still tell her.

How long is she there for? How long is she there? She might not be in Paris anymore. I was gonna say she's traveling, so somewhere else maybe. I think she started in Paris. Is it another European summer? For like the people of America? Yeah, like last summer Everyone and their mother was in Europe. No, I don't I

Felt like yeah, I felt like when we went how long two years ago two years ago Yeah, I felt like that was everyone. I felt like felt like everyone was there Every summer I was working at Trader Joe's in Culver City Have you been here? I have it. Iader Joe's in Culver City. So you weren't in Europe? Have you been to Europe? I haven't. I'm like- Then is that a have or have not?

I'm the quint, have not. I'm the quintessential American that's been to almost every state in the US, but never left the country. What state have you not been to? One of the Midwest ones that I don't know. Wisconsin. Maybe.

You haven't, you don't know if you've been to Wisconsin? Well, here's the thing. So I used to take a lot of trains. So I've taken trains across the country. So I've been through states. You're pretty sure you've been to Wisconsin? Well here's the thing, so I used to take a lot of trains, so I've taken trains across the country, so I've been through states. You're pretty sure you've been to a lot of them, but you didn't really take them all in. For all I know, it's just a field of Alabama.

Like you've flown through the Houston airport, but you've never been to Houston. Yeah, but I feel like taking a train is different than flying, you know? Because I was actually in the state for like a good. You do get to do some sightseeing on a train. For sure. You're like, oh, look a field.

You know? Yeah. It's more, it's definitely, it's definitely more than, better than flying over a state. Yeah. I mean, the train ride across the country was three days. But a plane flight. If someone is counting flying over a state

as visiting that state. Agreed. They need psychological help. I feel like the train is kind of the same. But a train through... Well, because you're just driving through it. So, like, can I say that I've been to... Yes.

If you drove through... Nevada. So there's driving through, there's taking a train, I guess there's bus, but buses is driving, they're flying over. I think they're very different. I think it depends if you stop. Yeah, I would agree.

I would agree. So if you pee... If there's no pit stop. Yeah, I would agree. If there's a pit stop. I would agree. So if you pee. If there's no pit stop, you can't claim it. If you pee, it counts. If you pee, you get a lunch, you stop in the downtown area, you have been to that state.

But if you're just driving through, no stop. If you're driving through and you take like the side roads through a small town and you're like, oh, look, they have a Dairy Queen. Doesn't count. Well, you have to stop at that Dairy Queen for it to count. If you get pulled over by a cop, that counts.

You don't even take the main roads? I say you have to step onto the ground. If you're on the freeway, then I could see that you're not part, you're an Invisit because you're just on the freeway or the highway or whatever you wanna call it. Well, why would you be pulling over just to drive by a Dairy Queen?

Well, I'm just saying, some people take the scenic route. I've been there. I've done that. For places. Sometimes they take the country roads. Sometimes on the five going north it's like foggy and you can't do that. I think you have to physically step down. Your foot has to touch the ground.

So you could be driving through the great state of California and pointing out all these landmarks and seeing them, but if you don't get out of your car, you haven't been there. I'm with Nick on this one. No, that is different. If it's like a specific drive-through trip. Yeah. If you're doing a like, let's drive through California, but if you're like, let's go cross country and you're just taking like, all you see is woods.

You go from California to Wisconsin and we drive drive through Denver, and we see some mountains and I don't know, like some kind of landmark. Yeah, you're going to start telling people, like, yeah, we went to Denver. And you're going to be like- We drove through Denver. Yeah, and then they're going to be like, oh, what meals did you get there? Like what restaurants are you in? And you're like, none.

And they're going to be like, what? But you've been in Denver. That's right. Okay, but listen- It might require like, hey, listen, I've, very briefly, like for example, I went on one cruise with my dad. You can't count all the islands you passed. No, but like we went to Jamaica and they came in islands.

You got off the boat. You got off and did an excursion. No, for like an afternoon, I sat on the beach of Jamaica and ate chicken. Oh, that for sure counts because then they're like, what'd you do? How does that count more than me driving through like North Dakota? You've had the local Jamaican food. I'm with you, Nick.

I think it's a time thing because I think if you're taking a flight and it's like you're in the state for like five minutes, that doesn't count. But if you're driving through California or here for like a day, like even if you don't step out of the car, the drive through California has to be like what? A train is like a- I had a seven hour layover in Columbia once. Can I say I've been to Columbia? Yeah, I think so.

Well, you've never left the airport? I didn't leave the airport. That's a little different. Okay, so Danny goes on tour a lot. He drives through America. Airports kind of like almost like in a way like the, almost what's like, like the embassy, you know? True.

The American embassy is in a bunch of countries, but technically that's still the United States, the embassy, because you're still inside the building. An airport is kind of like that. It's like a sovereign place where you're not really in the place that you're in. But driving through or taking a train or a bus where you're actually in, you're in the elements, so to speak, I don't know, that's a little different than flying over

or being at the airport. Even a gas station stop, because every state has different gas stations. I think a gas station stop is fair, yeah. So as long as you pull over and pee. You have to pull over and be in the state. Like, so kind of like a dog marking their territory. Yes.

Yeah, dip your toes in the sand. Okay. How did we get on the stomach? I derailed that. How did we get on the stomach? in the States. Like, so kind of like a dog marking their territory. Yes. Yeah, dip your toes in the sand. Okay. How did we get on this topic? I derailed that. How did we get on this topic? You asked about, I don't know. I don't know. Europe, European summer.

European summer. Yes, oh, Sierra. Sierra. Sierra. That's Sierra's. Where else is she going? I think she's going to Nice. That's all I know. Anyways. Yeah.

Well, she's there, we're here, and we do have a lot to get into later this episode, or shortly, Genesis Rodriguez is joining us to talk about the Summer House breakup we've been all anticipating all season, plus VPR. She's a big Bravo fan, she's currently filming season two of Lioness, have you guys seen that? It's a Taylor Sheridan show, we watched season one,

it's fantastic. It is really good. It's like the title is like the, the show's about like the secret. Special ops. Special ops and the lioness program is like these women, kick ass special agents that like embed into like,

you know, behind. Undercover. Undercover. I love those kind of stuff. And it's Taylor Sheridan, like the writer, creator of Yellowstone, 19, whatever, whatever year. So she's filming that, but Yellowstone, 19 whatever year. So she's filming that, but more importantly,

huge Bravo fan, she is watching very much Summer House. We'll get into it with Genesis, but absolutely full on team. I understand Carl and I understand why they broke up, but I, when we get on, we'll explain why. I'm completely in support of Lindsay Hubbard feeling and saying that she was blindsided after watching that breakup, 100%.

We'll get into it later, but I don't know what you guys think. Lots to get into, a lot of fallout from the Vanderpump reunion part three. We are, just for you guys, after watching the Lindsay Hubbard and Carl breakup, we've been referencing Lindsay's interview with us, we're gonna re-release Lindsay's episode this week

on Wednesday. I'm excited. I think, even if you listen to it, it's a great re-listen to, it's a great re-watch if you wanna watch it on YouTube. But like, it offers so much context. And just like when you go back and forth between what Lindsay said and how she walked,

I mean, very, very accurate. She, you know, from her, at least from her point of view. Yeah, I feel like before, when she was talking about it, we had no context, we, none of us really knew like what happened in the season. And so we were just like taking her word for what it was worth. And then watching the season, obviously we were like,

in the beginning we were like, I don't know, I feel like we're team Carl. And then now I feel like being able to watch that interview back and hearing everything she has to say, it all makes sense. Yeah, cause like beat for beat, and when she's like, well then I went and talked to my father and like they showed that and like,

you know, in the big conversation obviously is like, did Carl set her up? And Lindsay obviously feels like she did. Later this week, we have a fantastic week lined up for you. The one and only legendary TV personality, Kristen Doty, is here with us to talk about all things Valley drama. Really just her back on TV. We had Kristen here about a year ago talking Scandival.

It was very giving. She's still giving. I feel like she's gonna give us the Valley reunion. That we all want. That we all wanted. So excited to have Kristen here. And our good friend, Paige Peck, friend of Kristen Doty will be joining us.

Ooh. Grease the skids, so to speak. Well, she's friends with Kristen. Oh, okay. And she's friends with us. It's a lubricant. I've never heard this thing before. What do you mean? Grease the skin. No? Wait the skin or the skids? Skids. It's like you're greasing the gears, you're loosening things up you know like. Little WD-40. Yeah a little WD-40. Another one. We don't want Kristin to clench up.

It's a laxative. Paige is a laxative to let the truth flow through and out of Kristen. That's how we manipulate our guests to spill all the tea. Bring their other friends in. Bring their laxative. Whatever makes them feel the most comfortable, really, is why we're here.

All right, what are we getting into before Genesis shows up? Oh, but it turns out the great debate of tampon flushing is still alive and well. Yes. The ladies of the Giggly Squad, Hannah Burner and Paige Disorbo continue the conversation starting on the Vile Files.

Paige team Natalie flushing tampons. Hannah team me. And team you. According to Paige, team Natalie, flushing tampons. And team me. Yeah. And team you. According to Paige, she thinks that, what is it men are gaslighting women into thinking it's not okay to flush them? What is the? You're gonna ruin our pipes.

I don't know. I'm literally, it's just like, I put this on my story and I was like, I obviously have not had a period in over a year, but like when it does come back, I will continue. When does that come back? I think when I stop breastfeeding. We had a pregnancy scare over the weekend.

Oh my God. Whoa, wait, Cher. Well, I was just like nauseous a couple mornings in a row and like throwing up and you know, did not think. We thought it was a stomach bug. I thought I had a stomach bug. I like talked to my mom about it. She was like, are you pregnant? And I was like, mom, the fuck, no.

And then I was like, oh my God, wait, we did just get back from our honeymoon. As we all know, we all shared about our dirty talk in the shower. Outside shower. Outside shower. Nick was like, there's. You also did post a hot tub story recently, so. I did, I did.

But that would be way too fast. True. And so anyways, I mentioned in the middle of the night, like, oh my God, what if I'm pregnant? Neither of us slept the rest of the night. And then I woke up and I was like, I'm going to pee on a stick. And we were nervous. I was holding River.

I was like, wait for me. She's like, I'm just going to take this pregnancy test now. And I had to finish River's warming bottle. But I was like, I need to be, because like we were stressed, but it was like, all right, well, if, if this is, if, if she is in fact pregnant, like I'm thinking to myself, we got to, I already failed. The reaction. The reaction to River. I absolutely bombed that. I don't know your reaction.

Which I did. It's so funny. So Friday Friday the 31st was the year anniversary of me finding out that I'm pregnant And so I have like where I peed on the stick in the morning, and then I was like okay Maybe that was just like a false positive, so I got one of the like clear blue like electronic ones, and I recorded my reaction to that saying pregnant and Then I got so many DMs being like, post-Nix, post-Nix, what was Nick's reaction? What was Nick's reaction? It's terrible.

It's so bad. Yeah, it's terrible. Yeah, Natalie's like, I'm gonna pee on the stick. And I'm like, obviously we're very nervous. I mean, we've talked about growing our family, but holy shit, you know, like, forget about me being concerned. Obviously, Natalie's been through so much.

I'm already thinking, oh boy, she's gonna, I honestly was like, she's gonna, I'm gonna be in so much trouble, was the thought. Because Nellie's doctor, like, I don't know, like a. On my five week checkup. Was like, yeah, well. She was like, you, do you wanna like, talk about birth control?

And I've never in my life been on birth control. So I was like, I'm not really interested in putting that in my body. And she was like, okay, well, then either you need to use condoms or Nick has to be so insanely good at his pullout game. And I was like, I think he's pretty good. And she was like-

And I'm like, we just got married, condoms? Like that is- That's a good point. The whole, no, you know? And so I was like, I got this. And then apparently not because we were like, oh my God. We were in New York and- That's a little too much detail.

But there was a- Jesus. There was a moment where I was like- I just think it was like, yeah, we- That was close. That was a moment where I was like. I just think it was like, yeah. That was close. That was close. Oh my gosh. So yeah, anyways, and so we took the pregnancy test

and it was very much negative, but. We were nervous. We were very nervous and now I will be celibate, so very sorry. Well, I mean, I just need some like, if you're not gonna get your shit together Like maybe no, we just need a couple of no. I just needed a regroup mentally right now We got our game on right game is

Genesis Genesis is here. Oh Genesis Rodriguez. Let's bring her up It's article baby article has it all. If you need to upgrade your furniture this season, look no further than Articul. Doesn't matter if it's the bedroom, the living room, the dining room, or outside, Articul has a great selection of furniture. Whether it's mid-century modern, coastal, industrial, Scandi, and boho designs, it makes furniture shopping simple. And we know, because our house is mostly Articul furniture article furniture. Article offers fast, affordable shipping across the US and Canada, plus they won't leave you waiting around.

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Thank you for having me. I'm so excited. We're so excited to have you. Obviously, we know you're a big Bravo fan and we have a lot to cover with you when it comes to all things Summer House and Vanderpump. But before we do, you're filming season two of The Lioness right now.

Natalie and I watched season one. We were huge fans of season one. Super excited to have season two come out. But how's it going? What's it been like? Anything you can tease for us for all the Taylor Sheridan fans out there, all the Lioness fans?

Obviously, I can't say much, but I can say what has kind of have what's been said, which is I play a helicopter pilot. Hot. And one of the, yeah, so hot. But like, I thought it was getting into like a simulation kind of learning how to fly a helicopter. But no, the first day they were like, okay, you take over. And I was on the topper and I was like, oh my God, is this safe?

And but yeah, that was unexpected and fun actually. So it's not like a green screen and like a studio like you are in an actual helicopter? Actual helicopter. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Not on the page it's one thing and then when you're doing it it's like holy shit. They're really testing your acting skills. Like you're supposed to obviously look like, like you know what you're doing and you're not scared. And you know, this professional, like soldier, special forces, helicopter pilot. Meanwhile, I'm guessing trying your best.

Are you, did you have to like hide your fear or like, do you have any fear of flying? Cause also like flying in a helicopter, very different than flying in a plane as well. Like the sensations. Tell me about it. Yeah. Because there's two gauges, there's a lot going on. The pedals, there's two handles that bring you up and down.

Anyway, it's a lot of technical stuff, but I was like a natural at it, I guess. Which was surprising to me. And they were expecting me just to be scared out of my mind and have like nausea when I went out there the first time. And I was just like really cool and I was just flying. So, so they were like, okay, I guess you can actually do this and we could actually do some tricks and hover and take off and land and stuff. So the landing's the most difficult and obviously the pilot next to me takes over for most of

it, but it's a lot of fun. And I'm one of those people that when I try something, I want to be great at it as soon as I try it. So thankfully this worked out in my favor. And now I kind of like, my partner's like, Jen, please, you don't need to become a pilot now. It's not. You're like, no, but I can. No, no, no. Now that I know that I can, I just want to do it all the time. And he's like, please don't fly. We're not gonna buy a helicopter

Exactly. You're like no. No, we just get one. I'll fly it to San Diego, it'll be fine In all your experience of all the shows you've done is Is is flying this helicopter one of the more craziest experiences? Or did you have any fun experiences when you're doing Umbrella Academy? I mean, that's like typical stunts that you get on wires and normal stunt work. This is definitely something else.

I did boot camp for this. I've been training like crazy. Again, something else that it's now my identity. Like now I like to weight lift and have like split weeks and stuff and dedicate like different body parts to weightlifting. Like it's my identity. Wow.

But I'm so grateful to this character for, for giving me that. Love that. That's incredible. Yeah. How long you've been watching Bravo Genesis? Oh my God. for giving me that. Love that, that's incredible. Yeah. How long you been watching Bravo, Genesis? Oh my God, this has been, I've been through the University of Bravo.

Like it's gotten me through so much in my life. It's like I graduated, I got my master's, then I got my doctorate. Yeah. Yes. And for me, I mean, we have really hard days at work and I just wanna unplug and not think about things when I get home from work. And really, it's, I also see it as a character study. And

I even got like a character from the Real Housewives of Miami. One, I did a character on the show called Neon on Netflix. And I based it off of Alexia and Dr. Nicole Martin. So like basically she like talk like this and it's very staccato like Dr. Nicole Martin, but also like kind of like I'm a star like Alexia. I see Alexia, yeah. So it just- That was so good. So it's honestly, I'm just riveted by these characters. I think you can't make that up. And I try to steal from it as much as possible.

Was Housewives your kind of introduction to Bravo? Yes, it was Housewives. It was Jersey flipping tables, Judaism. Teresa Teresa. Teresa. Obviously Tree, but the husband, Joe Judeist, he's like, Tree, who cares, huh? Who cares? Who cares, Tree?

And it was just like, I freaking love these people, I just wanna be their friends, and just witness them. Have you had the pleasure of meeting any of your favorite Bravo celebrities? I went up to NeNe once and I have been to Sir. I went to TomTom as well. I, yeah, I mean, I tried to, oh, actually, during the pandemic, by the way, this is like my partner

and I's love language. We really plan our lives around like what shows are on Bravo. By the way, like we're very serious actors. We love the theater, we love reading, we love like acting out plays and whatnot, but we love Bravo. Just needed to point that out. Like we are serious about our jobs.

We love prestige television too, but at the same time, like you, you know. We just love it so much. And so during the pandemic, it was his birthday. Obviously we weren't doing anything special. So I reached out to like Kyle and Amanda and Luke at the time from Summer House. I was like, Hey, it's his birthday. Do you mind sending my boyfriend at the time some videos for his birthday? And they were like, Sure, actress weirdo. Did you just randomly DM them? Yeah, this wasn't cameo. I did. I slid into their DMs and they actually- You slid into their DM and asked for a free cameo. I love it.

Yeah, respect. I did. I did. And then he was like, that was really weird of you, but I'm happy you did that. Yeah, did he love it? What was his reaction? He loved it. He loved it. It was Kyle and Amanda and Luke, actually, at the time. So yeah, I try. I really feel so invested in their lives that I feel like I can reach out to them. Yeah, you're like, I know you.

Well, it works. That's like that classic fan. It's like, I just feel like we know each other. They show, I mean, it's just like, I know where you live and I know your birth. I've been inside of your house. Exactly, I know what's going on. I know what's going on in your love life.

Like, let me give you my opinions. Well, we are glad that you're full of opinions when it comes to these shows. Let's start with Vanderpump, obviously, because there's so much to get into, the Lindsay and Carl fight in the breakup. I'm really curious to hear your thoughts, Genesis. But since the Vanderpump reunion has ended,

there's been some fallout with the cast. Starting with Sheena, now, what is it, Justin? She's kind of, she's saying that essentially now all of the behavior of Lala and Sheena is... Producers. Producers. Yes, so she's insinuating that producers told her like if we don't get a fight

or if the season doesn't go a certain way, then like there's no checks. Like the show will end, you guys will be let go and then the whole crew, like the crew of people working on the show won't get paid also. Oh my God so someone had to bring the show aka me and Lala came here to bring the show Yeah, she's on her podcast. Yeah shenanigans. Yeah. Yeah, okay. Yeah, I That's that's heavy guys because like where do we go from here? She threw the producers under the bus. Yeah I feel like I think it's go from here? Is she through the producers under the bus? Yeah.

I feel like, I think it's like a lame thing for her to say. I mean, how can you be a 10 year vet and still blame producers? You know, I feel like if you're a bachelor contestant on for the first time, you don't know what you're getting into, you show up on set and it's a whirlwind. Even then I kind of roll my eyes at the producers,

blaming the producers. Because with Sheena, again, being the 10 year, how many years that she's doing vet, again, people always forget, we say this when we talk about Bachelor, people talk about producers, even Sheena when she's talking about producers like this, she's talking about as if it's like

three evil wizards in a tower, being like, you must take this, you must talk about this, or you will be out of a job. Of course, a producer's job, by definition, whether they're making a movie or a TV show or a reality TV television show, it's like their job is to come up with ideas to make the show that they're making interesting.

So of course there's gonna be conversations with the entire cast, including Sheena and Lau, being like, hey listen, you're gonna have to make it interesting or we won't have another season. That's just like, of course that was said. You know what I'm saying? Like of course some version of, hey, what are we gonna do this season so that we have something?

When season 10 wrapped, Nellie and I went to lunch at the, what, front yard, front door? Where is it? Front yard. Front yard, you ever been there, Jenna? It's really good, it's like a executive hangout. Steakhouse. No, it's like a nice lunch place in the valley.

But we literally ran into Allie, who was having lunch with the Vanderpump producers to talk about next season. And like, what was having lunch with the Vanderpump producers to talk about next season and like, what was her story arc gonna be? What was, you know, what did, I don't know, like what was the plan? And so producers are always gonna be like, hey, we need something, we need some juice.

And I just think like at the end of the day, Sheena and Lala and anyone else in that cast, like again, they're all, they're literally professionals. They're seasoned vets and like they're all adults who signed up for us. So I still think it's disingenuous to like at this point at the end of the season be like, well actually I didn't really, it was the producers fault. They made like, they dangled our jobs in front of us. At least, I guess to Lala's credit, she's at least owning the fact that she did it for the plot. But I just, I don't know, I'm not for the blaming of producers, I don't know, what do you think, Genesis?

No, I agree with you. You know what really irks me is talking about it like the job of it all. Yeah. Like the suspension of disbelief, I wanna keep thinking that this is what you're doing and you have to, you know, you want to hang out with these people. When we talk about it, like it's a job and it's produced, it really takes away from the

show for me. I don't know. It's when we talk about that. Yeah, I feel like Tom Schwartz recently just said this, like talking about Lala. He's like, you know, like I respect that she wants to break the fourth wall, but so much of her talking about it as it's a job and making it seem like we're not being our real selves for our reality show is disingenuous.

And that makes so much sense. It's ruining the authenticity. We actually, we had this argument a while back about breaking the fourth wall and how we feel about it. And I know it was a mixed bag where some people like to see them break the fourth wall and some people are like, wait, I wanna keep that facade alive.

I don't mind it sprinkled in. It's 2024, it's not 2014 anymore, where it's like, we've used this reference, where when Vanderpump first came out, you had Lisa explaining why she didn't fire Kristen Doty it's like we get it you're making a TV show like you know it's like WWE trying to pretend it's it's real wrestling so and I'm glad in 2024 they recognize it is a TV show and that these characters have their own podcasts and have social media and are talking about

these things outside of the bubble of the show. But yeah, to that point where it's just their whole, Lala's whole argument is, well I had to do my job. To Genesis's point, like takes away, well then what is, how do you really feel Lala? Like you know what I'm saying? Like what is your real belief?

It went too far. Yeah, and I do think that I'm glad they kept filming because like we said last week on Going Deeper, when we talked about the reunion part three, if you haven't listened to it yet, is like I do think Lala's truth is it was jealousy. She was jealous that Ariana got the support that she got filing a scandal and she didn't get it from

Randall. The whole Randall of it all. Randall. And then it all comes down to that, and less about the job and more about the sympathy that Ariana got versus what Lala got. And that was the truth. But it's always something, Lala always kind of oversteps, says something out of line,

and then she backtracks and apologizes and is like, oh, I grew. But it's always the same thing. Like when do you finally learn? You know? Yeah, she's like, I'm soft now. I'm soft now. I'm in a soft era. Exactly. She's still coming for people. And girl, like, to be honest with you, if you aren't really in your soft girl era, let people be who they want to be. It's not the way that you want things to be done. That's a great point.

Yeah. That's the reality of things. If she had a problem with the way Ariana handled things, keep it to yourself. I feel like Ariana, in the reunion where she's like, and Lala's like, well, and I just don't understand. She's like, you don't have to understand. Like I don't understand a lot of things you do, but like, I still respect it. Like that's what you choose to do.

It's not my problem. Yeah, I don't really know what Lala is trying to mean when she says I'm trying to be soft and I'm in my soft era. But to your point, Ariana was demonstrating a gentleness, a softness of hey listen, these are my boundaries. We talked about it last week. The way she was so, Ariana was so validating, specifically Sheena,

but trying to be validating to Lala too, being like listen, I get it. Your thoughts and feelings are valid, you're making sense. If I were in your shoes, I would even think how you're feeling. I just don't agree and that's okay. And just so chill and unbothered by the opinion. And Lala's like, no!

You know, like fucking be more. She could not handle it. She talked about this on Disrespectfully podcast as well. and Lala's like, no! Like fucking beemores. No! She talked about this on Disrespectfully podcast as well. She said, what you say about me, you can think that, I don't care. Yeah, and again, that to me is, I guess, being soft. I don't think, and that's not the same as being a pushover. Ariana wasn't in any way a pushover over the reunion.

She stood her ground. She just did it in such a soft and unbothered, like listen, you're gonna feel how you feel. Regulated way. Yeah, and just like, you're gonna feel how you feel. It's not gonna affect me. You have the right to your feelings. And so chill about it.

Yeah, and you can tell that it was authentic. She wasn't just trying to put on a show of being chill. She actually didn't seem to care. I'm trying to be fucking soft, Katie. That's one of my favorite lines of this season. Or I am gonna, I'm curious what you think, Jenna says, or I am gonna defend Lala. We just had a baby.

Leia's pregnant. But some of the audience members are mad at Lala, accusing Lala of quote unquote using her pregnancy for sympathy. And they're coming down on Lala and I guess suggesting that's wrong to do. Like specifically for like part three of the reunion where she was like, I'm pregnant,

like I can't deal with this, like trying to walk away. But that was after she was like jabbing. Sure. Yeah, so that's what people are like. And maybe her timing's a bit off, but I don't know. I mean, I feel like- I use it all the time. Yeah, I mean, when Nellie was pregnant a couple months ago,

and anytime we would go to dinner, or literally anything that we were hoping to curry some kind of favor, I was like, baby, show your belly, like look tired. Like, you know, like, you know, like you're really in a lot. Yeah, like as like as you said, I agree. Right. I mean, I felt like such a tight window to like for Natalie to kind of just get. It was honestly like a superpower.

I remember me and me and my mom went to Great White in on Melrose. And like the weight was like 45 minutes for a table. And I was like, well, maybe we could just sit at the bar. And they're like, yeah, bar's first come first serve. We're like, OK, great. So I'm like, trying to get up onto this bar stool, you know? And then there's a guy sitting by himself at a two top. And he was like, you know what?

I'll sit at the bar. You two sit here, please. Sit in this couch with all of these pillows and get comfortable. Are you sure? I'm like, no, what? I'll sit at the bar. You two sit here, please. Like sit in this couch with all of these pillows and get comfortable. Are you sure? I'm like, no, no, it's fine. You already have your coffee. Meanwhile, you're sitting down.

You're like, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. By the way, I've been using it since before I was even pregnant. Like, can I have the aisle seat? I'm pregnant. You have feigned a pregnancy? Oh yeah.

Oh. Listen, before being pregnant, I have always had bladder issues and I need to pee all the time. And if I don't have an aisle seat on a plane, I'm in trouble. So instead of saying I have bladder problems, you're like, I'm pregnant.

It is simplified. Can I sit on the aisle? Can I switch with you because I'm pregnant and I need to use the bathroom? I always thought it was gonna like bite me in the ass one day, but thank because I'm pregnant and I need to use the bathroom? No questions asked. I always thought it was gonna bite me in the ass one day, but thank God I got pregnant. And now you're pregnant. Wow.

Well, if anyone is ever sitting beside Lea post-pregnancy, she asks for the aisle, she's a liar. And now it's not gonna work. That makes me feel better about faking allergies with certain foods that I don't like. Instead of just saying, I don't want this on my sandwich, I just say, I'm allergic.

Do not put this on. You'll kill me. You'll kill me. Which is a bit of a fib. It's efficient though. Yeah. There's no margin of error there because I'm like, oh shoot, yeah.

We're gonna kill him, yeah. It's not just bullying. You lying about being pregnant. You're gonna ruffle some feathers in this episode. No, I'm gonna get a lot of hate, it's okay. But you're pregnant now. Yeah, no, and trust me, I am using it now. It can't be used now.

Yeah. I'm using it more than ever. You manifest it. Yeah, clearly like Karma was unbothered by it because they're like. Well knock on wood. Because. Oh no.

Also, but I do think Lala saying like all I want, and I like totally understand this feeling, I wonder if you do Leia Genesis, I'm not sure if you have children, or if you can just resonate with this at all. Her just being like, all I want is to just have my baby and live a good life and just sit in my house with my babies. That's all I want.

And that is such a valid feeling. I remember, anytime you're just dealing with any sort of outside noise, you're just like, none of this matters. Like I just want to sit at home with my babies and not give a fuck about anyone else. Has Lala to Genesis point since the reunion, has she come on any of her lives that she's doing

and backtracked anything she said? She did have a live, but she, all I know is she talked about something about her. She actually doubled down. She said that she doesn't that she backs everything she said. Oh, she had a, oh, she on a live, I saw, did you see, someone asked on the live if now that something about her is open,

if Lala was gonna go plan and support. She gave the best disingenuous answer you can give, which is basically saying no. She's like, you know, I never really leave my house. If I'm in the area, I'll stop by. But when they start delivering. She was valid for saying she doesn't go to WeHo though. I support that.

That's a track sometimes. Maybe so, but that's not the point and that's not the question. The question is, are you gonna- She knows it's open. Yeah, she does, she definitely does. The question is, are you gonna go out of your way to support your long time standing friends

despite this rift that you have, that you filmed a couple months ago during the reunion, it was like a check in from the fans to be like, where are you now with your friendship? Is the pettiness gonna continue, or are you gonna support your friends? Are you gonna at least even show up now that it's open? And she's like, she couldn't even just say no.

And that's also kind of bullshit. Lala, Lala just roasting every one of her castmates about authenticity and keeping it real and like, you know, never, never like pulling back punches because she's Lala Kent and she doesn't pull punches. She's honest to a fault. This is Lala preaching to us, lecturing her castmates and the audience about her authenticity.

And she goes on a live and she's like, no, I'm not gonna stop by because I'm not in the area. She said she would order it for delivery though. That's not the point of the question though. The question is, are you gonna go and support your friends new business that had a hell of a time opening up or not? And instead of saying, no, listen, I'm not rude, it's not cool right now,

I don't feel like supporting, I'm not gonna And instead of saying, no, listen, I'm not rude, it's not cool right now, I don't feel like supporting, I'm not gonna go out of my way. She made up this bullshit excuse about being like, well, I don't really leave my house and if I'm in the area, and clearly she's not gonna go. She's not gonna stop by, we're not gonna see any posts in the next week or two of Lala being like, oh my God, somehow about her,

something about what, amazing sandwiches? You know, like something, and she's not. She's not gonna do it. I mean, to be devil's advocate, she is pregnant. She lives in the valley now. I could see, I mean, she did say in the live, like the food is really good. So she hyped it up in that sense.

So I could see that she's like, I'm pregnant, I don't wanna get in the car and drive to WeHo. No, listen. And as I just mentioned, we support- Well, and standing like a two hour line. Using your pregnancy as an excuse. Listen, I am- Yes, we all, we acknowledge that that is a valid excuse. If you're pregnant, you can use it.

But it's not keeping it real. And Lala lectured her entire cast and the audience about keeping it fucking real. And she's the like authentic Vanderpump G who's just like you know keeping it real and doing her job and like now a week later she apparently I guess I guess she's just like the job's done and now she's back to like just kind of giving excuses to why she can't support her friends I don't know it's just like you know, either you're keeping it real or you're not. Yeah. Do you think this current cast can film together anymore?

No. Well, it kinda leads us to the next, like well, Ariana did go on disrespectfully, and oh, they were talking about, hey, I'm curious about this, Genesis, what did you think of the show dropping that, like, last couple minutes of the season and surprising the rest of the show dropping that like last couple minutes of the season and surprising the rest of the cast

with like moments they haven't seen before, apparently Ariana went on disrespectfully and felt like that was an attack on her specifically. Like it was the producers setting Ariana up. Trapping. Like basically entrapping Ariana to finally give her, get the sound bites. The moment that they wanted in the finale.

She said retaliation, which is a very specific word. Kind of a strong. Yeah. That's a strong, yes, for sure. But not no, I do think that that is what they were after. They were after some sort of emotional reaction. I mean, I was emotional looking at them growing up on camera and having all those mistakes and whatnot.

It tugged at my heart. So of course I would imagine it would affect them and it did, but I mean, it was pointed, I do feel, towards her. For sure. And that's valid, because they didn't get, they didn't get what they wanted towards her. For sure. And that's valid, because they didn't get what they wanted from her. So they got something.

They got something they could hold onto, which is a reaction. They did get an emotion. On disrespectfully, she said, "'Great, I cried. You happy now?' Well, the honest answer to Ariana's question as a fan of the show is, "'Yes, I am happy now? Well, the honest answer to Ariana's question as a fan of the show is yes, I am happy now.

Like, and that's what's. Yes! Yes! But that's the thing, like we love this show. And like, I think we can simultaneously defend Ariana and how she conducted herself throughout the season and specifically at the reunion and be like, that was the most authentic way

and the way she set that boundary calmly and all those things like that's that's something to be admired and I think we can also simultaneously be like sure we get it but like going forward like we we do want to know how you feel and it's how feel. Yeah, and we do, like going forward to film this season, to me, I can totally get on board with Ariana about season 11 and how she conducted herself. Assuming that for at least Ariana, this is her finale. This is her exiting the show. Because if she maintains this stance and still says, well, I wanna be back for season 12

and I wanna be part of this cast, which I actually don't think she's gonna do, then it kinda doesn't make sense. Then it's like, you put a bow on your feelings, your feelings, your most honest feeling is to like not, is to set these very rigid boundaries with part of the cast. And that makes sense to complete the story of Scandival.

But going forward, it's just like, as a fan of the show, we need you to make the TV. And so I see both sides. For me, it's just like, I hate the producer's argument because again, they're just literally doing their jobs. We're talking about hundreds of people who work on a show and like each, for example, I know that like there was a sound bite,

I heard from an inside scoop, so to speak, that there was a sound bite that even us and the rest of Bravo Nation very much gave Sheena a hard time about saying, and it was part of, and I'm not gonna say which one, but it was one of her many sound bites. And it was one of those in the ITMs that she said, and I know that that was a line fed by a producer.

But like when they're filming this show, and they said- Wait, why won't you say it? Because I don't wanna like, I don't know, but gotta protect my source. It doesn't really matter. Think of all the million things that Sheena said. It was one of those things.

You're saying the producers were using Sheena to make a statement. Not even that. I guess I'm trying to explain, when I bring this up, not to start a conspiracy theory, but more like give a little BTS in terms of how the sausage is made. And so when they are doing those confessionals,

and they're all wearing generally the same outfit, because they'll go in like one Saturday and do quote unquote pickups for maybe the entire season or like a block of episodes. And do you think like Ariana and Tom and Lala and all these cast members like remember, you know what I'm saying? Like all the things they said and all the drama.

So no, the producers will have these notes, right? Of each of the scenes and like they're working and the cast will literally be like, what do you want me to say? Like, give me a line. And the producers, each producer has their job. You know, there's executive producers, there's low level producers, field producers, and part of their job might to become, is to literally come up with like funny oneliners or things they could say or should say to get a laugh or some comic relief. And the cast is inviting of these comments. At no point is it in their contract

where they have to say it, where they're required to say it. Now maybe these jokes may or may not land, and I don't think these producers who come up with these sayings, they're not thinking, how can we destroy Sheena and make her look bad? No, it's a producer who shows up for a job and thinks to themselves, I think this is funny.

They don't even know if this is gonna be. You know what I'm saying? It's just one individual person. It might even be their first time on the job. You know what I'm saying? They might've gotten hired last week, they didn't work on season nine, 10, you know what I'm saying?

It's not like this vendetta where these producers take sides. They might be interviewing Sheena one morning, and then the next, and then in the afternoon, they're doing the same thing with Katie, right? Who they might be feuding or something. It's not a personal thing. They're just doing their fucking job. And my point is, is that Sheena was fed this line and thought,

yeah, that's something I would say. And then she delivered the line. And my point is Sheena still deserves to get heat for that because Sheena is a 10 year professional who knows what she's doing and was still willing to say it. I would feel set up though. Yeah, that's really difficult. I would feel set up.

If somebody's telling you that you said something and you didn't say it, that's definitely. She did say it. Oh, she that's definitely. She did say it. Oh, she did say it. She did say it. So the producer's like, hey, how about this line? And Sheena's like, and then she says the line. And then-

She could have been like, mm, no, I don't fuck with that. She's like, no, I don't fuck with that. Give me another one. I don't feel that way. That's a little petty, that's too far. It's an oopsie, but I would still feel set up. But then also she can't be like, I didn't say it, cause she said it.

Yeah, she's been doing it for 10 years. Yeah. She's not saying she didn't say it. She's just saying the producers told me to say it Yeah, made me say it like they don't make you do anything They would have some producers who go in and like there again There's plenty of times where you would I always say on this show when it comes around TV stars None of the fuck you never hear like one of these personalities being like, honestly that wasn't me, the producer made me say it. When it's like a line where everyone's like,

that's a fucking iconic line, we love you for that, yada, yada, yada, there's so many of those moments where they probably didn't come up with that one either, but they're not going out there and being like, honestly I'm not that funny, the producer gave me that line, I'm not that savage. When they get the credit, they take the credit. When they get the criticism, they're passing on

to the producers who are just like literally listing out funny one-liners that they hope that these, you know, cast of 10-year season professionals hope they take and take the bait. So I think it's bullshit when someone like Sheena, who's been doing it forever, suggests that like she was set up to do it. So it's like, you know what you're doing,

you know how the audience is gonna take this shit. I think that if Vanderpump gets canceled or ends here, it's not gonna be because of anything that Ariana did or any lack of authenticity, because I think she was incredibly authentic the whole season, that's my opinion. I think that it'll be because of this now line in the sand between Lala and Sheena and Katie and Ariana. Because that to me is not as recoverable as Ariana versus Tom.

Genesis, do you think they're going to be back or not? What's your gut tell you? No. I agree. No. I think Ariana should sail off into the sunset with her endorsements and her other shows and like live a happy life. Katie could still work cause she's getting along with Tom

and she has something, you know, that riff with Sheena and Lala now. Maybe a mix up, maybe like bring someone back that was like a Stassi or... I think they're gonna take the summer off, they're gonna film the valley, and I think they have every... I think they're gonna try to get Ariana back, right? I think they're gonna try because they kind of have to in a sense. Yeah. You think so? It's one of those things where I think Bravo and the

producers, I think they're team Tom because at the end the day I think Bravo and the producers, I think they're team Tom. Because at the end, the dairy, I think they're team Tom because they like working with Tom. Tom likes to do his job. From just a showing up to work kind of standpoint, Tom's easier to work with. You know what I'm saying? From a fan standpoint, we're all team Ariana.

But objectively speaking, the show is probably tired of working around Ariana's very busy schedule. And so I think they just enjoy working with Tom. I think they're gonna try to get Ariana back for like, because she's just so popular. And I think they're currently right now taking the time right now between what they would normally be filming to like basically find a replacement.

That replacement might be like Tom's new girlfriend. I'd watch that. right now between what they would normally be filming to basically find a replacement. That replacement might be Tom's new girlfriend. I'd watch that. I think they already broke up. I'd watch that too. They already broke up? Yeah. Are you sure?

No, no. Are you serious? I don't think they, did you say something? Yeah, it was like after watch what happens a lot. Well, I don't. Well, we don't know what happened technically. We don't know what happened. Because that's where Billy unfollowed, right?

There is the whole. Well, maybe it's Schwartz's new girlfriend. I don't know the Hatters unfollow, we don't know what happened. Cause that's where Billy unfollowed, right? There is- Well, maybe it's Schwartz's new girlfriend. I don't know, but I would absolutely watch the two Toms bring in their new girlfriends, younger girlfriends, that's clearly like ruffle feathers for the rest of the cast. And La La eating up these like- I don't know.

These Bambi-eyed girls. Yeah, I think, you don't think they're, oh, I'm down for that drama. I think they're gonna at least try, whether it lands or not, there is no way, their ratings are too high and too good. There's no way they're not gonna try to make it to season 12.

Who would you all rather see a spinoff of? Oh yeah. Cause we have groups of twos essentially. Yeah, you have the two Toms who are like a united front. You got Katie and Ariana, something about her. You have Lala and Sheena. Between those three pairings, who would you want to see a spinoff?

If that was your only option. I kind of love Lala. I have no reason, I just love Lala. Like she's pretty, she has like the sound bites. I mean Lala and Sheena might be the best team. Yeah, I think Lala and She's pretty, she has the sound bites. That's what I mean. I mean, Lala and Sheena might be the best team. Yeah, I think Lala and Sheena. Because I don't think Katie and Ariana

would really fight that much. I feel like they're just two good friends. Tom and Tom have each other's back too much. That wouldn't work out, yeah. They wouldn't turn on each other. Well, yeah, it wouldn't be just, they would have to build an ensemble cast around these two main characters,

wherever their main characters were. Yeah, I would say Lala Sheena. What about you, Genesis? I sometimes hate watch things. So, it would be the Toms. I would hate watch the Toms. I think the Toms would be good. Just because of who they're dating,

because I just want to know who would date them. So, just for that I say Ariana and Katie that's cuz you're a lawyer producer of Like something they're like doing so much I don't want them to be on reality TV because I don't want their relationship to get ruined like that's my take But again, there would be a whole ensemble. I don't know. I don't know. I want to see Lala turn on Sheena I want Lala and she knows I want Lala and Sheena on the valley. What do you mean they're close?

That's a great call. I would love to see that. Yeah. I think it's going to happen. I think that's their next direction of their lives. I think Lala is having this baby. It gives into the family of the valley. I think seeing her fight with Jax and her fight with Kristen and her,

then her meet these new people, I feel like she won't get along with Janet very well. And I feel like she- Oh, not at all. No. I think she's gonna come after Nia. I don't think anyone can come after Nia. I think she would because she'd be like,

you're not drama. Disengaged. You're hiding the drama. Especially on this past episode of the Valley where we found out that Nia kind of like pulls Danny out of situations when he gets too drunk or goes too far. She would hate that. Yeah, when they did that call,

I never really recognized that she did that. And then when Jason said it and they did that call back. So smart. It was, it's pretty interesting how she's like, oh, babysitter just texted, she's got it. We have to go right now. Have you guys done that before? Oh's like, oh, babysitter just texted, she's got it, we have to go right now. Have you guys done that before? Oh my God, yes, yes.

It's similar to the pregnancy thing. We started doing it when we got Jeff, as soon as we got a dog, it was immediately like, oh, we gotta go let our dog out, sorry, we gotta go. But not to like bail the other person out, like she does it because Danny's drunk and she's embarrassed of how he's gonna act and how it's gonna ruin

their look on TV or what he could say or what they, I think that's why she does it. But if we were dumb enough to say yes to doing, say, The Valley, I would absolutely support us doing that for each other. Like a safe word. Oh yeah. Yeah. But to your point, I think Lala is a professional.

I mean, all these Vanderpump, that's why I love Vanderpump so much, because we're talking about professionals. Like they're professional TV makers. Like I think we sometimes have to like, I know we love the authenticity and we wanna keep us in the blind, but like they do deserve credit

as being like seasoned professionals, like good at their job in a weird, bizarre they do deserve credit as being seasoned professionals, good at their job, in a weird, bizarro way. Producers. Like Tom Sandoval and Tom Schwartz willingness to do what they do and take- Just no shame whatsoever. Yeah, no shame in knowing that it's part of the gig to let people do what we do and talk about them

in a way that might be hard to listen to. It's like shock, shock, I mean it's, they're professionals. Like it's part of the gig, you know. It's like being a professional athlete, you know. Like you put yourself up, you have a, you know, there's a lot of rewards that come with it, the fame, the money, and the intention, but like being a professional athlete can be very brutal when you're like, you lose, the money, and the intention. But like, being a professional athlete can be very brutal when you're like, you lose the big game, you miss the shot, and people are,

like the DMs speaking out, like not to derail, but have you guys, did you guys been following the whole Caitlin Clark saga over the weekend? Are you familiar with what's going on? The shoving? Yeah, like Caitlin Clark, who's now in the WNBA, and like obviously she like took over you know college basketball there's you know the ratings for the college

basketball games through the roof ever since Caitlin Clark has been a part of the WNBA like literally it's changed the landscape of the WNBA they're now like taking charter jets and getting like the the entire league is getting treatment they've never gotten before but like as all these leagues are like the right league is getting treatment they've never gotten before. But like as all these leagues are like the right of passage, they fuck the other players fucking hate her. They're beating the shit out of her. Like they are like these heart like they're like these

fouls like they're literally like clothes lining her. Like she got body checked like and these players are just like they're beating the shit out of her. And like, I don't know, just fans are so, fans of sports are, why? Yeah, because it's like, she's kinda like changing the game for all of them. But there's competition for them.

So they're like, let's take out the. She's the Ariana of the WNBA. No, it's like, no, it's like, no, Caitlin Clark is making the WNBA relevant for the first time. Cause it's like, she's making- But that would be better for everyone. No, totally, like, no, Caitlin Clark is making the W.A. like relevant for the first time. That would be better for everyone. No, totally, but what's fascinating, it's like a new reality TV television show.

They're not like, everyone's filing it for the drama now because it's like they're like bulldozing Caitlin Clark in this argument of like she gave him all these gifts of these chartered flights and things like that. And you you're right and it's like the drama of these players who are like hate the attention she's getting and like this rite of passage where like you're a rookie and so the rookie hazing of all this and it's like this kind of like I'm invested in the WNBA for the drama. Yeah Justin you're right she kind of is the Ariana of the WNBA.. She kinda is the Ariana of the WNBA.

No, literally, she is the Ariana of the WNBA. It's fascinating. Yeah. But I'm all in. Neutrophil. Love it. I cannot say enough amazing, amazing things about Neutrophil. She literally doesn't

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Visit Vessi.com slash V-I-A-L-L to find the perfect blend of style and practicality in shoe designed for urban getaways and enjoy an instant 15% off your first order at checkout. Summer House. Yeah. Summer House. We finally got the scene. We finally got to see the fight. Genesis, before we get into it, what was your, I guess, as we watched the season, there's been a lot of peaks and valleys when it comes to Carl and Lindsay.

Obviously, we had the pleasure of interviewing Lindsay over the summer, sharing her truth about the breakup, and then we watched the season unfold, which early on was a lot of us being kind of like shocked at Lindsay's behavior, because it seemed like she was weaponizing Carl's drinking against him. And she received a lot of criticism for that. As the season played out, I think more and more people,

including us, certainly me and Natalie, started empathizing with Lindsay a little bit more, and this all culminated into this fight, and this breakup, which it seems like the big discussion about the fight, which is, one, did Carl set up Lindsay? Did he know that he was gonna break up with Lindsay? Carl's denying that, acting like, well, I didn't know, I was really hoping to turn things around.

Bullshit. Okay. I agree. And the second argument is, does Lindsay have the right to feel blindsided? Because we've all, again, we've all had the benefit of watching this season unfold, even her castmates have watched them fight the whole season, and the argument is like, well, how can you blindside it?

You clearly know that you've been fighting with your partner. So how are you blindsided by Carl breaking up with you when clearly the relationship had problems? But actually watching it back, I kind of see Lindsay's side. But anyways, Jenna says, you chimed in, you said bullshit. What are your thoughts having watched the breakup? Where do you stand on Team Carl, Team Lindsay? Do you think, it seems like you don't think Carl was telling the truth.

And do you, where do you empathize with Lindsay and how do you see the fight playing out? Okay, so I'm Team No One here. They were not right for each other. It's obvious. It's really sad to see because you can see from the beginning just the resentment building up within this couple. And you just see the deterioration of the couple and specifically coming from Carl, how much resentment he had.

I mean, rightfully so when we saw them in the beginning of summer, that what she did weaponizing, you know, his sobriety, or she was questioning it. Now, the breakup, being on camera, I just have specific thoughts about that. I do feel like he was protecting himself more by doing it on camera just to make sure like, hey, I don't want Lindsay to twist this, so let's have it on camera. And instead of maybe respecting not just the two-year relationship that they've had, but the eight-year relationship, friendship that they've had, where he could have taken her aside and said, this just is not working anymore. I love you, but this is not working anymore. And have the blowout be the blowout and in the privacy. But we did end up getting it. So I'm grateful that he took this and said, we need to shoot this

because we got the story. But I do think I can see where she was blindsided, but I do also think she was blinded. She had blinders on throughout the whole season of Summer House. Yeah, I think you make an excellent point. I think you almost have to separate it into your opinion as a fan,

and then you're dissecting the breakup as like, human to human, like the human experience. Like as a fan of the show, Carl did his job and we're grateful. Yes. Like we're grateful we got to watch this fight and see it play out on camera rather than hear about it and be like, oh man, I wish we got that on camera.

You can't deny as a fan of the show, you're glad Carl did that. But on the human side, it seems so fucked up that despite them being reality TV professionals, that Carl chose his job over, like, his fiance. And, you know, maybe soon to be ex-fiance. Like, I don't know how you can be Team Ariana for the reunion and be Team Ariana and say,

hey, listen, she has the right to enforce this boundary. This is her most authentic self. These are real genuine feelings and yeah, sure she's supposed to film a TV show but like Ariana was the most real. I don't know how you can be team Ariana and not be team Lindsay in this moment because if you've ever had a breakup,

forget about ending an engagement. Like, Lindsay, her mindset isn't like we've been having problems. Her mindset is I'm getting married in two and a half months. And Lindsay, we know, right or wrong, has that fighter mentality, that fixer mentality of like, hey, you fight, you work through it, you get over it, you go to couples therapy, yada yada.

So despite all their problems, like hey, you fight, you work through it, you get over it, you go to couples therapy, yada yada. So despite all their problems, to be brought into an environment where there's cameras in and then mid-argument, you realize, being the professional that she is, you realize the setup's on. And you realize, holy shit, this is a breakup. I'm being broken up with here.

I mean, it's like you can watch it in her face when he's like on a fucking roll and he's like saying all of these things that she's done and you called me a little pussy and you called me this and you said this about me and she's like, yeah, he's like pulling up all this literally. And it was like, whoa. It was a venting session.

Like Carl keeps saying, he's like, I didn't bring Lindsay here to break up with her. I brought Lindsay here to once again, try to get on the same page. Which I think is total bullshit. I think Carl believes it too. I think he's convinced himself. Because I think what the real truth is,

I think the truth is, is he gave Lindsay one more chance to be soft. He gave Lindsay one more chance to come in there and give his speech about like, I want, I need this from you, I want this. And knowing deep down in his heart that she was never gonna do that. But he was, you know, he totally.

He said that on the after show. That's what I'm saying. But he's like, he's acting like that was him giving her a chance. He knew she wasn't going to, you know what I'm saying? It's like, it's so disingenuous to say, I was trying to get on the same page and tell himself, I'm gonna give her one more chance to finally,

like as if Lindsay was gonna come in there finally after all their conversations to be like, you know what, Carl, I finally hear you. You know what, I'm just like, your ideas are so great and I'm just gonna support you. And like, honestly, like non-alcoholic Bev, let's start a bar. Let's do it tomorrow. He knew deep down she was never gonna do that.

So it's so disingenuous to say that he wasn't gonna break up with her. Because you also don't get an entire group of cameras and audio and producers for them to have another chat. They knew there was a 50-50 shot. 60-50. Whatever, a high percentage shot that this there was a 50-50 shot. 60-50.

Whatever, a high percentage shot that this conversation was gonna end in a breakup. And it's like to say anything else is very disingenuous. Borderline a lie. Also like the meetup with Kyle beforehand. Yes. Right, that's the dead giveaway. Yes.

That was going down. But can we just give Lindsay some props? I mean, in the last conversations with Carl, she was so not activated. Like she was like calm. She was very calm. She was not reactive. She was communicating her feelings in the most mature way I've seen her do it. I'm like, that's pretty soft for Lindsay as Lindsay gets, you know? No, yeah, she was soft, but still stood her ground, which is kind of like, well, what do you want me to do?

You're literally- You made the decision. Well, no, yeah, but with Carl's point, she's like, you're asking me to overnight become someone I've literally never been. From the moment you've known me, before we've ever even got together, before we were romantically involved,

we were just friends, the person I'm being now is who I've always been, and you're telling me to what? Act like I'm doing something wrong all of a sudden, and that you can't be with someone who is literally the core of who I'm at? Imagine what that's like for someone like Lindsay to hear in this moment where like,

Lindsay's hearing changes everything about you or I can't be with you. And how does that not feel like a blind side? I also think recording conversation we need to discuss. Yes. I thought it was so interesting how she's like, I brought out my recorder. I didn't press record, but then he brought out his

and he starts screaming, stop yelling at me, Lindsay, stop yelling at me. And she brought that up on the after show. And then he never said anything about it. He never addressed the fact that he, even in the conversation with Lindsay on the couch, she's like, you start manipulating the tape. He does not say anything.

He doesn't discredit that. He doesn't say why he started screaming. Stop yelling at me, Lindsay. The accusation is wild, which Lindsay... Well, he says it in this episode, the recording. No, I know. No, but he doesn't specify anything. But Lindsay's accusation of saying

that Carl brought out the recording, and as soon as he hit record, his, well not only that, but he threw out an accusation in like, to start the recording of, like well. Stop yelling at me, Lindsay. I'm driving. Stop screaming at me. Stop yelling at me, yeah. Yeah, so it didn't have the yelling,

but had Carl wanted to like get it on record that Lindsay was yelling to start off this recording, which is kind of fucked up. Out of context, yeah. But it also makes you just be like, if he's capable of doing something like that, like what else has he done? We've seen little snippets of his anger come out where he's like, what did he say to her?

The suitcases is what got me. That's a lot, he's like, that's a lot. Well yeah, yeah, that's a lot. And then he also said. When it was aggressive. Yeah, and then he also said to her, you think I'm gonna relapse, I think you want me to relapse.

It's funny how Carl, he keeps saying this, well over the past few episodes, he keeps accusing Lindsay, specifically in this breakup, he accuses Lindsay of playing the victim, all while he's simultaneously playing the victim. When he's breaking up with Lindsay, specifically in this breakup, he accuses Lindsay of playing the victim, all while he's simultaneously playing the victim. When he's breaking up with Lindsay, it's just, again, he's unloading on Lindsay, you've done this to me, you've done that,

you haven't done this, it's just like, how can you accuse someone of being the victim when you are literally having attack after attack after attack of how they're wrongly behaving. It's like an explosion of resentment that you see. He said, he mentioned the ring. There was a fight where she gave him back the ring. And since there, I think it's what started

like the deterioration of that breakup. But also like when you go to your parents, when you're having issues in your relationship, that's the kiss of death to the relationship. Like that's it. It's done. There's no going back. Your parents will have an opinion and they'll have your back and they're always going to have your back and they're always going to have that and hold that against your partner. And it's kind of impossible to move through that. So I don't know what he was thinking when he did that. Maybe that's when he was like,

I need someone to tell me to get out. Maybe that's what he was looking for. And ultimately he did get that. Because I think we also, like, kind of like you said, we aren't like, Carl made the healthy choice of ending the relationship. We empathize with Carl why he wanted out, and Carl has the right to be out of this relationship.

And I do think it's such a fascinating discussion just in general, the relationship, because when you're watching Carl and Lindsay talk, it's hard, whoever you are, not to have an opinion. And in that opinion, do you are, not to have an opinion. And usually in that opinion, someone kind of like, do you side with Lindsay or Carl between like, you know, like, I'm curious. Like when you're watching it, you know,

for all the conversations we have about like wanting men to be more open and talking about their feelings and their sensitivity, great. But like, it's also hard not to have an opinion watching Carl constantly play the victim and talk about his feelings and con and insist that Lindsay has to be soft and supportive. Because it is, it's a such a fine line. I mean, as a man, I will say like, it's been interesting because like Lindsay also want she has this thing with Carl, like Like it seems like they've mutually decided

in this relationship they were gonna have that eventually Carl would be the breadwinner. And like Lindsay eventually they would have kids and eventually Lindsay would stay home. And it's kind of, and Lindsay's argument is kind of like, well, if I'm gonna do this, you need to fucking step up and do it,

which I totally get Lindsay's argument. On the flip side, I also kind of get Carl's where like, as a guy, I'll just say, in a heterosexual relationship, all men want is a cheerleader, they do. They are sensitive, we are sensitive, whether we like to admit it or not, and I think sometimes we do just need a pet on the back. And I do think it's like a fine line between

giving someone like support and encouragement and a little bit of like constructive criticism and that pet on the back, which speaks to why they just shouldn't be together. Because like they're just not compatible. But I think it is fascinating to see which side you fall on when Carl is just like talking about just wanting Lindsay's unconditional support. support because honestly when watching it back

Carl just kind of seems soft and like incapable Whether that's a fair criticism or not. It just it's kind of like what do you expect Lindsey to do? You know how how it's been ten months, right right? Yeah. 10 months of him not having a job. Yeah, it's just like how supportive can you be with someone who constantly has either no idea or bad ideas and no follow through? And you know, like how do you, it's like how do you blindly just support someone you know?

And someone you're like about to get married to and like that's a big commitment. And like, if you know big commitment, and is this, how long is this gonna go on for? I'm about to marry you, and you have no real plan of your career. And I guess the 10 months thing is, if it had been, yeah, a month of this, two months of this, but you've been 10 months of sitting on the couch,

like figuring it out and you have no plan. You have no idea, you have no, like, you have tons of ideas, but none of which you're like really committed to. Yeah. Yeah, I also feel like, at least from what we've seen, most of these conversations, Lindsay's not just like pulling Carl aside

and being like, do you have your shit together yet? Like, Carl is approaching Lindsay with these ideas and he, she's just asking questions. I also, I've said this before, I know you don't agree, like he smiles in every conversation he has with Lindsay when he's grilling her. It's like, I read it as like, he has enjoyment and maybe this is the resentment part, but he has some pleasure and like grilling Lindsey and all these maybe it's just sometimes the I just know people When they feel awkward can throw like a facial expression that doesn't necessarily represent the emotions. They're feeling inside Yeah, like I have a friend who will laugh at a funeral. Yeah, I I was a kid I might do that by the way

Yeah, which is like when you're uncomfortable or nervous like you just I, as a kid. I might do that by the way. Yeah, it's just like when you're uncomfortable or nervous, like you just. Every once in a while when I was a kid, when we would really fuck up, my dad would lose it, right? And there were a couple times my dad would like get in our faces and yell, and like kinda yell at us. And there were a couple times we would just start laughing. It'd be like, what are you laughing at?

I'm like, I don't know! Like, you know, and like, that can happen. I get that, but it's like, if he presented every conversation to Lindsay and he was always smiling while also always grilling her, and I think in context of like the luggage when she didn't want to be in the same car, and he's like, so you're gonna make me drive alone

but take your luggage back while smiling, like that was like a manipulative thing to me. I agree. I think, speaking to their incompatibility, I just think Lindsay is, and I'm not saying this to be a dick, I think Lindsay is smarter and more professionally polished than Carl.

And I think they're just not in the same league professionally and Carl aspires to be more successful professionally. And I think he feels, regardless of Lindsay actually doing it or not, I think he feels emasculated by his partner. And I don't think that's Lindsay's fault. I think that's like Carl, you know, kind of projecting his own insecurities about his own failures as a professional. And because Lindsay has more pedigree and maybe insight and had her own PR company, and listen,

she can be rough around the edges and sometimes her delivery can lack tact. But I think it's more of a Carl projecting his own insecurities onto Lindsay, even despite Lindsay's never been softer. She's literally compared to previous seasons. Maybe she still has some work to go, but she's showing progress.

And in a relationship, if all you are is showing progress, that's what you want. It's just like, hey, I used to do this. I'm not there yet, but I'm getting a lot better. And Carl is just like, no, I want you to be a different person. I am no longer interested in dating you. Yeah, like where's the line between wanting somebody

to compromise with you and then wanting them to change their entire personality? I think the line is not doing what Carl did is like what seemingly overnight just decide that you have to like be a different person and no longer be interested in having conversations that include things like, how can we work on this? What are some tools or exercises we can do? Where you validate and recognize your partner. Be like, hey, thanks. I appreciate you having

that conversation with me. And I'm glad that we can talk about it now. Because in the past, you used to just tell me it was stupid. And now you're asking me questions and and that's progress but Carl is just like done with it and he's decided to You know make Lindsey feel Bad about who she is as a partner and like again like I I'm just so team Lindsey after watching this episode And let's keep in mind, this was on camera. She's probably shocked, she's in shock. Yeah, you can see by the end of the scene

that she's like hugging the pillow. Can I just say one point about her talking about their sex life? That was a bit shocking and I can, that's emasculating him, you know, in a way. It was too much, it was too much information. And I don't know, that was a bit much for me. Like, if you're not having sex,

how are you gonna get married? Hello? Am I taking crazy pills here? No, no, and if you're calling out your partner. Public shaming. Public, for, and it just, it just, it just reads different when it's coming from a woman saying that against her male partner.

There is like, yeah, like with a woman audience, there's a lot of like, you know, performance judgment and it's, yeah, it's. It's too far. It's far. It's too far. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

I think we, I think Bravo Nation in general all agrees that they shouldn't be together. And I think, and when you hear the cast talking about it, it makes a lot of sense. I'm just, I was kind of surprised even, I know Paige and like Lindsay aren't like besties, but I was kind of surprised that the cast, the conversation they were having

right after the breakup was about like, like they were, like Paige was making a ton of sense. It's like, yeah, he did you a favor. Well, sure, but like, this is a seemingly an hour after Carl ended the engagement on camera. And they're like not allowing Lindsay any time for like just to feel shell shocked. It's like when you get in a breakup

and then you go to your friends like there's so many more fish in the sea. It's like, that's not what I need right now. Like I don't need to know about all the other guys that I could be with. Like I wanna talk about the guy that just broke up with me and like how, you know, yeah, I understand. Yeah, imagine right like two hours after Ariana finding out

that Tom and Raquel were cheating on her, that everyone's like, honestly listen, like to be honest, Tom Sandoval's kind of a fuck. You were with him for way too long, which we all think now, you know what I'm saying? We're all like team like, He did her a favor. We're all team, you're better off.

But do you think like two hours after finding this out that Ariana was interested in hearing, listen, honestly, let's be real, you're better off here. And that's what Lindsay's entire group of friends were saying to her, moments following being broken up with on camera, not like a summer fling, her engagement. I definitely think it's three against three. I think it's Amanda, Paige, and Sierra

against Danielle, Gabby, and Lindsay. Yeah, I guess. I'm just saying it's not, I just, for anyone to say that to Lindsay, I guess is my point. It's just like, you're right, but are you really being helpful to point that out to someone in the heat of the moment? Yeah, I also think the crying with no tears thing is not fair.

Like, I don't know. God, it's so funny. I feel like, I'm not a crier, really. Like when I find out, yeah, but do you go? I just, I'm just. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

Like if you're not gonna cry, I'm so sad. Like if you're not gonna cry, that's fine. But like if you're not gonna have, like. You'd get fired. It's, yeah, it's like one thing to like make the facial expressions of crying and have no tears versus just like not. Shocked face. Yeah, not having emotions.

So let me ask you this. Do you think two things can be true at the same time? Do you think Lindsay can be shell shocked, distraught, can't believe what happened, knowing that Carl chose to document this breakup and then be forced to film a scene with your friends, be utterly confused and shocked and almost have an out of body experience knowing, being the professional that you are, that this is gonna be aired, that people are gonna take sides,

and knowing that you kinda have to play a role and not literally be able to perform because you are, in fact, in shock. Shocked. And I guess I'm just like, I think we're completely dismissing the human side that Lindsay was broken up with and expecting her to

have like seemingly normal emotions and I'm just like if you've ever been broken up with ever regardless of it being like an engagement or a marriage or finding out you were cheating on the heat of the moment I just like I feel like it's hard for anyone to sit there and nitpick and yeah, maybe I mean, I don't know. I mean listen Lindsey is definitely a professional. She's a PR Literally in the so like I think she opens herself up for that type of criticism I think she could have just led with like I'm so confused I just feel so blind like I'm just shocked instead of being, instead of the like.

Totally. My best friend, why would he do that? No, you're right. I mean, listen, it doesn't land. She's open. She definitely opens herself up for criticism. And listen, maybe I'm a sucker and maybe I'm foolish. I'm just saying, I am willing to give her the benefit

of the doubt as someone who knows what it's like to feel blindsided and shell shocked and not be able to process. In that world, Lindsay's life is drastically changing. You know what I'm saying? She went from I'm gonna get married in two months to like I'm gonna be a single woman in New York and dating again and like my life is forever altered.

Also I feel like, and I mean this would just like definitely cross my mind, but like it's two months before the wedding and like now like I feel like I would be thinking of holy fuck I have to tell all of our guests that like the wedding is off. She had to put all these deposits down. Like that's where like I would be like. Yeah, so she's thinking that,

plus she's also thinking about Bravo Nation and how, what side they're gonna take. She still lives in the same house with them too, the apartment. Wait, what? He said he lives at the time. Right, well I mean at the time, notice what I'm saying so I can understand the shot.

When she interviewed with us, she was living with him. Yeah, so not now, but I'm just saying like, so all this going on, they still live in the same safe space. But he hadn't been there. When she was on this podcast, he hadn't been there. Yeah, he hadn't been there. But technically, they had, yeah.

He hadn't moved out and broken the lease, but he was not staying in the guest bedroom. So I'm saying that she had no safe space to retreat to. Yeah. Anyways, in the comments, we were curious about, now that we've hashed it, we're gonna redrop Lindsay's episode that she came out. I think it's a must listen to. Had you even listened to it before? But if you not, it offers so much context into the mindset of Lindsay. And after watching again, it play out her story lines up, like, at least her side of

things. There was never there was nothing about her story on our episode, or like, well wait, you know, it didn't happen the way it happened. I mean, context might be different, but it's, there was no like, ugh. Like she wasn't caught in any lies or anything like that. So I think it's a fascinating lesson to, anyways, The Valley. I think the biggest takeaways from this episode are this extremely weird game

they have of dressing up as each other's fantasy. And like, I don't think it was each other's fantasy. I think it was just like what they like. What would you dress up as? Does Danny fantasize about ranch or does he just like really like it? What would you guys dress up as? Um...

I don't know. My partner's fantasy? Yeah. I mean, like if we're going by the Valley's rules, which is like clearly not fantasies, then like a joint. Yeah, a surfboard, I guess. It's like, they're not doing,

they're not doing like school girl, you know? Like they're not doing it like classic sex. For the record, not my, she's just saying that. No, no, no, I'm just saying like classic, no, no, just saying that. No, no, no, I'm just saying like classic, no, no, no, yeah, no, no, no. I'm just saying classic like men's fantasies, but they're doing- Librarian. Yeah, librarian, thank you.

They're doing like hot dog and a bottle of ranch. Well, it was a little bit, Outlander seemed to be more of a fantasy. Yeah. Or does she just like really like the show? Do you think she's genuinely fantasizing? When they have sex, is she fantasizing about, is that not what a fantasy is? I think some of them just missed the assignment.

I think they missed the assignment. I think that's what it was. But also, sometimes people do literally cosplay, and then some people just dirty talk. Please, let's not bring up the dirty talk again. Oh my God. I would do a joint for Nick. What would you do for me?

I would dress up as a cowboy. Okay. Okay, that's a good one. That's pretty good. He's giving you the boots. He's giving the, he's been cosplaying a cowboy. He's half dressed up right now. We went to, we went to Zach Brian last night.

We saw the concert. We saw the boots. Yeah, his girlfriend, Brianna, is gonna be with us for part of Going Deeper this week. I have no, since I've been into country music, since Natalie's got me into it, like going to a country concert is like my adult cosplay. I get to wear some cowboy boots, maybe there's like a-

But you wear cowboy boots every day now. Fine, sure, but it's still like adult cosplay. I'm certainly not a real cowboy, I'm not exactly- I think it's everyone day now. Fine, sure. So it's not really. But it's still like adult cosplay. I'm surely not a real cowboy. I'm not exactly. I think it's everyone in LA's cosplay because everyone breaks out their cowboy hats and their boots and they throw on a little twang and they go to this country concert.

It's like adult cosplay, yeah. Are you struggling with those two words together? Cosplay? Anyways, but I thought the late night booty call for Michelle, I mean, and him saying that they did have sex was like a little jarring for me. And then that he started thinking that the Kristin thing was true.

About Michelle sleeping, or like sending sexy pics. Ah, yeah. Is what she's saying. I wonder who Michelle, cause isn't the rumor is that she's been talking to like some kind of, like some actor or? There's a specific name that people are throwing around, but I don't know if we can say it.

It's a big name. Do you know who it is? Do you know? Really? That's who they're all saying. No, no, no. That's who- Michelle.

Yeah, but that's who they were saying she was going to Chateau Marmont. This isn't the same person that she was like sending sexy pictures to. Two different people. So to clear that up. So wait, who? There could be a client that she was like

going to Chateau Marmont. And like, remember a few episodes ago, Jesse was like, this is how we, whatever. Like flirt with them, like drop your pants or whatever it was. It was like, she goes to Chateau Marmont and they talk about whatever and they get coffee dates and they and Jesse's down With this. Yeah, I guess that's how we like work with our clients differently. Oh my god. So he's it's like a whole

Gray area that's where he keeps drawing the line where he's like well, like that's just how we work Like were you texting him or were you sending sexy pics? Yeah, but if if we were let's say We but again, I think to do I think it's two different people. It might be it might be yeah, but if if we were let's say, but again, I think two different, I think it's two different people. It might be, it might be. But that's still, Nellie and I work together now. Let's say obviously booking great guests like Genesis is part of the success of the show. And if we let's say, hey, I'd love to give on this show. And like, I couldn't imagine sending my wife to have coffee to talk about coming on the show but like but the way Jesse's talking about it is this it's

like hey man like business is business it's like he's giving a very pimping her out pimping her out yeah kind of vibe which is yeah kind of gross gross he's always sexualized her in front of the camera which is interesting yeah yeah yuck. But we don't know if it is even. They bleeped his name in the actual episode. So we don't know if that's actually confirmed. Did you get like in the bleep, like,

like did we catch anything? I think they blurred the mouth. They did, but there's like mouth readers. People go crazy, these internets, yeah. I think really the only other thing to take away from this episode is the nanny and D- Nanny. Nia and Danny like blow up of it all, which was really just him getting shit-faced drunk and like- Yeah, we had obviously out of my last week, I really think- I think Danny is a good guy.

I really do. And obviously he made the mistake and he came out here and apologized and he was absolutely shit-faced. But he seems like he doesn't belong on the show. And I say that as a compliment to like, he just really seems like a sensitive, good guy who really genuinely wants to be a good husband and a father where these other guys don't. Like they don't seem like they're not that interested. They seem interested in being good TV stars.

Yeah, I worry that them being on this show could ruin something really good. Yeah. And I don't want that to happen to them. Yeah, they seem very sweet. They have such a beautiful family, yeah. I think they did them wrong by naming it Dark Side Danny. The whole episode, yeah. The episode name.

No, I know. I think, yeah. Yeah, so it's like the guy got a little... It wasn't a dark side. He was a little drunk. Was it even like... It was nothing worse than anything Jax or Jesse did on this episode. Truly. Yeah, I didn't... Yeah. He was just messy. Like, he was messy and he was emotional.

He was a little snappy with his wife and like, and she held him accountable and she was like, are you gonna really talk to me that way? And he was like, I'm tired. She was like, go to bed. He's like, I'm going to bed. Yeah, that was- He was all mumbly. It was a very-

It wasn't that bad. Pretty harmless. I really must have had that. Yeah, if that's the worst Danny Darko does, then he is in fact a good guy. Yeah. Yeah. It was funny having him on here last week,

where he was like, yeah, Jax got me on the show, and without actually saying it, he kind of, he didn't, well, we're always hard on Jax, and he didn't correct us, like, at all. He talked about how, like, they were friends, and that's how he got on the show, but it doesn't seem like they're still, like, it's like he now knows who Jax is,

and now he's just like a reluctant colleague. He said he wants to check in on him, but he hasn't had a chance. Hasn't had a chance. Ooh. Now it sounds like Lala. Yeah. Well, yeah.

Hasn't had a chance. Hasn't had a chance. You know, maybe he'll swing by, you know. I think another interesting thing that happened in this episode was at the very end when Jax is talking to the guys about Are him and Brittany gonna get divorced? Are they gonna get separated? They said

Would you let her leave if she wanted to leave and he said no she would never leave Like what are what are your thoughts on that? Like can you hold someone hostage in a relationship? No, I'm not in the business of defending Jax Taylor, but I know the question was would you let her leave, but his answer was, wasn't I'm not gonna stop her, it was the continued delusion of denial that she would never do it. So I, you know what I'm saying? I don't, Jax wasn't like I'm going to stop her,

it was just him continuing to be delusional and denying the possibility that she would even do that. So I think it's, you know, of course, no, he can't stop her. Yeah, and it clearly, she has gotten Airbnb and moved out. And clearly she hasn't. He didn't stop her. They're dating other people. Yeah.

I am curious about them dating other people and when we're gonna start getting glimpses of their opinions of the people that they're dating. I'm excited to talk about this with Kristen because I feel like she'll have a lot of insight. I feel like there's a lot of Britney and Jack's fallout that we're not having the pleasure of seeing. But I do think it's really absolutely hilarious

that Jack's obviously called paparazzi for his date with this new model girl. And she picked him up at his house in a limousine and they went to Granville on Ventura. I love that place. Okay, but it's like for a limousine. Right, right. It's like the Chili's of Valley.

It's giving high school prom. Yeah, it's literally. And like a limousine and she's like wearing a jumpsuit, which like love a jumpsuit, like workout jumpsuit, but like you're in a limousine. Wait, she picked him up? Yes. Also, I didn't think that limousines were still like

in vogue ever since like the Uber, ever since the Uber black car or the Cadillac SUV or Cybertruck. Like a limousine is kind of like a time portal. It's something like- Yeah, like you have to call a service. I don't think it's still, like is prom still? It's like-

Well, some say it's high school prom. It's prom. And like, I wonder what Jax's reaction was when she's like, hey, I'm here. He comes out and it's a limousine. He's like, I don't see you. God, I just think that's absolutely hilarious. Uh, yeah. I don't know why.

So why is it New Jersey Housewives having a reunion? I think it's, I think it's the, well, the rumor is, I think it's the step of a reboot. Well, so an insider said a reunion is meant to have resolution and it's clear in this final, in the season. Lisa Vanderpump reminded us that the reunion. That you need like a resolution for a reunion to happen. So the insider said, a season finale,

but there is no path forward in that type of setting. So the network is figuring out a different concept to wrap up the season. This follows Real Housewives of New York season 13. They didn't have a reunion and then they recasted the whole cast. And that's where we like got rid of the legacy cast. So now people are thinking that following that situation,

that this is a sign that bye bye. Do you think it's possible? Because I think you're right. I'm curious if the OG cast, like the Melissa's and the Teresa's and all of the cast, I gotta assume that the reason that they're still holding their ground and being willing to not do this, all while the network is literally threatening their jobs,

is I'm guessing they're banking on each, like for example, the Melissa's and the Teresa's, they're blanking at the network, choosing them and keeping them and letting the other one go. Yeah. Correct. And they're banking on that. So which one do you think the network's gonna choose So which one, do you think the network's gonna choose Teresa or do you think the network's gonna choose Melissa?

I kind of feel like they might not choose either of them. Cause like- That's a possibility too. Now they're becoming more of like a financial liability cause with BravoCon they had to do two separate panels two years in a row and now they can't film scenes together so now they're canceling a reunion. Yeah.

Which is easy to be like filmed. And yeah, think about the money or the monetary, the Reunions are almost always a two-parter, often three. And to your point, they're the cheapest show to make. You know, these get a room, get Andy, and ask a bunch of questions. My personal favorite. Yeah, and so for the network to forego that,

they're giving up, that's costing them a lot of money. So they're not making that decision lightly. So, you know, it's kind of fascinating, but like, yeah, they might both be without a job, and I can't imagine, like, the more I, like these housewives, a lot of them, especially the OGs, are making a lot of bank. Yeah, well, Sharice is now the longest standing housewife, a lot of them, especially the OGs, are making bank. A lot, yeah.

Well, Sharice has now the longest standing housewife, because Candy left. Yeah. So. Even back to, I don't know what Ariana makes, but my understanding from people I've talked to, or people in the know, is that despite all of Ariana's success of the brand deals and things like that,

or something about her opening up, or her time in Chicago, specifically Chicago. Because from a prestige standpoint, her doing Chicago, amazing. It could probably even open up a lot more doors. It legitimizes her as an entertainer in Hollywood. But my understanding is she is making pennies on the dollar compared to what she makes on Vanderpump.

So like imagine, like I'm just making up numbers here, but like what if she's making close to a million dollars a season on Vanderpump, but only making a hundred thousand doing Chicago? Like that is, that really becomes a choice when you have to figure out like which one you do. And it's like easy for us to say like it's time for Ariana Move on but much harder when it's your decision to me when that paycheck is yeah checks are checking

You know the checks are checking and that you know that six figure is like inching towards seven figures And once once you give that up that is it's a lot of other jobs You got to do to make up that nut. I will say to New Jersey There's reports that this is their lowest season for views. So that's part of why people think they might just recast, because they're not getting as many people involved, fan base-wise. I guess, I mean, when your biggest story- I guess people are over it too. They're over this, you have to choose a side.

I think Bravo had to choose a side a long time ago. I think Bravo had to choose a side long time ago. Yeah. Because it's, it got back, it went past the point of enjoyment to see this family rift. It just got old. But when your biggest- The kids got involved? Yeah. When your biggest storyline is one that they're unable to give you or record, then it's like

every week I watch this, I'm hoping to see Melissa and Teresa have some kind of conversation Or fight and now they're fighting through other people in creating new fights that ultimately stem back between Whose side are you on Melissa or Teresa's? Yeah, and it's yeah, it's it's hard. It's hard to do that But I'm just more fascinated on like who's gonna regret their decision to not do this. Out of the two? Yeah, or both, and to your point, maybe both of them. Maybe it's just like, Braavas is like, fuck it, we're not gonna reward either of you.

Dude, but we're talking about, that's a nice paycheck. Get your shit together, people, and figure it out, and fight it out, or leave, you know? It's a nice paycheck, you kissing away. And that's the thing, they're still willing to be petty and talk shit, just do it to each other's faces. Like you're not, it's not like they're, it's improving their mental health or anything,

they're still involved in the drama. They're still involved in the drama. They're still not talking to their family. They still are talking shit and hearing each other's family members doing it. So just. Well, even the bougie kids dinner with Danielle, this episode, they're sitting at the same table,

but like not looking at each other. So it's like, okay. Well, if you're gonna sit down here, like say something. That fight between Rachel and Teresa was crazy. I thought my favorite line was the conversation between Melissa and who was she. Rachel, who did? Rachel.

Rachel was just like, I tried not to spread the rumor and I'm or what I what did she I don't forgot how exactly how she said it but it was like I tried not to and I'm like hot wait how do you try not to spread a rumor like you either don't or you do you know either you're like no I really I'm sorry I know I'm just my vault you know but like you're like, no, I really, I'm sorry, I know, I'm just, I'm a vault, you know? But like, if you can come up with an excuse as to why you had to share it, then like, yeah, just own it, you spread the rumor.

Like, you can always come up with an excuse as why it's like, oh, I tried. I just thought it was hilarious. And then when people say that, they say it with some sincerity. I tried so hard. I really did. Like I was forced to. It's like.

Just say sorry. Just say that you ran your mouth and you talk some shit and you spread the rumor. I don't know, it's kind of hilarious, but yeah. I agree. What was it, Gia, Teresa's daughter? Gia Giudice. Yeah.

What was she talking about when she was saying how everyone's on like talking to the blogs? Yeah, so she went on a live and she said all of them talk to bloggers. They're all guilty. You'll see during the season some of the housewives literally had bloggers at their events. So I think even like bravo's like we're losing control of everything because now everybody is friends with the bloggers and they're like leaking information. And when she says bloggers, who is she referring to? Like the reality Von Teases of the world? I'm assuming it's fan accounts, but also the Housewives is famous for having Housewives being friends with Radar Online or actual news sources in the reality world so they can control narratives. So I'm assuming that's what she's alluding to.

I believe it. So. I believe. I believe it. Yes, I believe that they absolutely do that. Yeah. Keep your enemies closer kind of thing. But I could see why that makes Bravo resent them. Cause it's like, Bravo, like we're gonna air a show that now you're all leaking to the press

before it even happens. I don't know. I just feel like nowadays, I think that's lazy producing. Right, cause we have, they have, everybody has a podcast. Everybody has their own platform. Yeah, I personally love the after shows.

As a show that covers these after shows, we could just as easily be like, I wish they don't have the after shows because so much of what we want to talk about, they're already talking about. But I'm just more like, well, let's just watch the after shows. And what they talk about on the after shows I'm just more like, well, let's just watch the after shows and like what they talk about on the after shows actually gives us more to discuss. And then we can actually get their opinions of it. And like, that's just the world that they are making TV

and now in 2024. And like, I always like really good reality TV producers are good at one thing and that is adapting and to the environment that they're working with and like reacting to new information and just being ready to like change course regardless of where the story goes like to me is the best that's that's when when reality producers are out there on their a-game that's what they're doing it's not complaining that they're losing control of the story because that there's no such thing in the reality TV

space the story can kind of go such thing in the reality TV space. The story can kind of go anywhere. And like, I also, it is kind of annoying to like, if all we were doing is watching these shows, like it was 2014 again, and having to pretend that like Bravo World started and stopped when they recorded these episodes, as if like, you know, and then six months go by

between they filmed a scene and we have to act like it's six months ago, it'd be kind of annoying. So I'm glad we have a little bit of both. I just like wish they would kind of work in unison. I like, I love when the reality TV stars like talk about the drama and like the show outside of the show.

It's like foreshadowing a little bit too. Yeah, I'm obsessed with the after shows. I agree with you, it reveals so much. They're so much more shady and they're usually paired with somebody they're super comfortable with so they talk a lot more and you get their real feelings. I'm sure that in person when they're going through it, they don't want to fight or they're trying to avoid a fight or just get along. And then here you get to see them after they processed and react to what they were really

feeling. Yeah. So I love it. So I just think producers. I love it too. Yeah. I think they're just lazy producers if they're complaining about losing control of the story. But I can see how it makes their job harder, but it is the world we live in.

But yeah, with the Teresa and the Melissa, like, I mean, should I even ask the question? Like, have you guys chosen a side with this? I'm team Melissa. Or have you passed that? You're Melissa. Yeah, I just feel like at the end of the day, Teresa always had a problem team Melissa. Are we past that? You're Melissa. Yeah, I just feel like at the end of the day, Teresa always had a problem with Melissa. She married, you know, she's married to Teresa's brother.

It's like, it's one thing not to like the girl your brother's dating, but now that they're married, they've been married for years, they have kids together. All the drama seems to stem from that. I'm sure Melissa's had her moments where she maybe like, her reaction to Teresa's behavior, but at the end of the day, it kind of all stems from this.

I guess my question to anyone who's teamed Teresa is, what is Melissa supposed to do at this point to mend fences? Because it seems like she kinda has tried in the past. Also, if you notice, Teresa in the confessional, she never says Melissa, she says, my sister-in-law. Yeah and it's like I'm just wondering what Melissa so if your team... I mean that's just like Ariana saying my ex and not saying Tom. But I'm just more like if your team Teresa what is what could have Melissa done differently from the beginning to

solve this? And I'm recognizing that I'm sure Melissa has made mistakes, but again, if this all stems from Teresa originally having a problem with her dating Joe's brother, has Teresa ever come around and apologize to Melissa and said, hey, you know, when you first started dating my brother, I said some things and I did a lot of things, but now I accept you as part of the family. Has that ever happened? Where then Melissa then didn't accept that apology and then continued to like make digs at Teresa?

Did that happen? I think it has more, personally, I think it had more to do with the show that Melissa tried to get on the show and take like Teresa's spotlight. That is where the problem started. Not so much like her dating her brother. And I think there's never been an admission of that.

It's always been like, oh, the producer sought me out. Not that I went and tried to come on your show. And she's never given her that credit, that way in, I guess. If you're team Teresa, you almost alone, Teresa like the credit for being the OG housewife and like getting her on the show. And like almost like paying tribute. Yeah, I think that's what she wants.

Yeah, like almost like paying your respects almost. Like she's the godfather. Yeah, exactly. She's the ultimate Italian, you know what I mean? She wants the respect and the recognition that she got her this job and the whole thing and she's never gotten that from Melissa that's what I think that's a good argument A lot of our comments do agree with their sentiment though that throughout the history Teresa is the one that throws a lot more jabs like she's fueled the fire of the drama I don't agree with Teresa, but it makes me understand Teresa's point better

if that is, like, she wants the respect. Yeah. That makes sense. She got her the job, and then she wanted to try her singing career, and it was all because of Teresa, you know? And that, I think, that's where the problem is. Well, that sucks, because you can never, like... I think it over. You can never come back from that in Teresa's eyes, you know?

Like, she's always going to lose. But is it almost, I guess, if you're Melissa, just to play a zealot advocate, are you afraid to give Teresa that credit? Because it's almost like, damned if you do, damned if you don't. If you give Teresa that credit, then Teresa's going to turn around and be like, see, you're not here to be genuine, you just wanted to be on the show. For the cameras.

For the cameras, and then she's gonna throw that in her face. Like what is some, I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. I think at a certain point though, like Melissa is a cast member, she's part of the show now. Fox and C. You know?

For a while, yeah. That's it. It's been so many years. So many years. When is. We've been, you know? For a while, yeah. That's it. So many years. So many years. When is she ever gonna like, you know, be able to be her own person on the show? I think Teresa can hold a grudge. Clearly.

Yeah, that's for sure. Well, no reunions, so we know. That woman can hold a grudge. Yeah. And she's like the matriarch of the franchise. So I can see how she, if she doesn't feel like she's respected, she's never gonna give respect back.

It'll be a sad day if we don't see Teresa on our screens anymore, really. I'll be very upset. I mean, she changed the game. She's the Kristen Doty of Housewives. When you said that the other day, I was like, that's true. Cause we love her for being problematic.

Or like short fused. How do we think Rachel's gonna be able to come back from what she said to Teresa in this fight, where she said, you went to prison as a grown-ass woman, and what have you done? Like, how do we think Teresa's gonna retaliate to that? Oh, she's gonna do something. So I feel like she's gonna bring up some kind of boondock, like, tea on something Rachel did when she was in middle school, and then like, use it. Yeah, probably. I don't know

It's gonna be bring another hairstylist in sit them down. Yeah, I Love Rachel. So yeah, I don't really have a I don't know what she's gonna do. There's gonna be something I don't think anyone can predict We'll just have to see well, I think that kind of wraps it up Genesis. This has been so much fun. Thank you guys so much wraps it up. Genesis, this has been so much fun. Thank you guys so much. Truly, I've always wanted to talk Bravo things and I remember last year when the Scandival was happening. I think it was around the same time that we were going through a strike. So I had so much more time to dedicate to Scandival and like unpack everything and your podcast was the one that like I couldn't wait to hear with Katie and Kristen and it's just thank

you for having me because I feel so useful. Thank you for saying. You are so useful. We would absolutely love to have you back when you're back in town. We'll have to have you come in studio and break down some Bravo with us in the future. Awesome. Sounds great. You guys.

Thank you. Please. Anything else? Where can people follow you? Anything else you want to promote or throw out there? Lioness Season 2 will come out. I have no idea, but it's going to be a great season. And you can follow me on Instagram at G-E-N-I Rodriguez.

And nothing. You can comment me, Bravo things, I love it. Please send it my way. Awesome, Genesis, thanks so much for coming on, so much fun. We'll talk to you later. Thanks. Bye.

Bye bye. That does it for us, we wanna thank Genesis again for coming on, so much fun talking with her. We will be back on Thursday with Kristin Doty. You will not want to miss it. It's going to be so much fun. Also, brand Chicken Fry also joins us for going deeper. Catch up with her, you know, get a little tea on maybe her boyfriend who we saw in concert last night. And we'll be re-releasing the Lindsay Hubbard episode this Wednesday. Lots to get into.

We'll see you then, bye.