The Viall Files - E760 Ask Nick - Carrying My BFF’s Baby

Episode Date: June 10, 2024

Welcome back to another episode of The Viall Files: Ask Nick Edition! Before we get to our callers, we talk about menu anxiety and gentle parenting. Then we get to our callers… Our first caller is carrying her best friend's baby, but her mother and law doesn’t approve. Our Second caller is a single mom and it’s been 9 years since she’s last called someone her boyfriend. Finally, our third caller feels like the city she lives in makes it impossible to move on from her ex. “When you look back at your relationship, was he really the perfect boyfriend?” Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  To Order Nick’s Book Go To: https://www.viallfiles.com  If you would like to get some texting advice, send an email to [e-mail] with “Texting Office Hours” in the subject line!  To advertise on the show, contact [e-mail] or visit https://www.advertisecast.com/TheViallFiles  THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Altoids - Find Altoids in the check-out aisle! Grab your tin today!  Quince - Upgrade your wardrobe. Go to https://www.Quince.com/viall for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. Ibotta - Go to the App Store or Google Play store and download the FREE Ibotta app, to start earning cash back and use code VIALL. SportingSmiles - Save 10% on all orders by using promo code Viall10 when you go to https://www.SportingSmiles.com  Vessi - Visit https://www.Vessi.com/VIALL to find the perfect blend of style and practicality in shoes designed for urban getaways and enjoy an instant 15% off your first order at checkout. Huggies - Learn more at https://www.Huggies.com  Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @justinkaphillips @leahgsilberstein@dereklanerussell

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Some of them, a couple of them. Sweet boy Justin, Scooter Magoo. Sco of them sweet boy Justin scooter Magoo Scooter Magoo We have a fantastic episode for you today some great calls from people calling in some people calling some great calls Sometimes even the more traditional Topics turn into the juicier ones. You never really know. What are we getting into before we get to our calls? Guess what? I tried this weekend. What? Mussels. Mussels?

And I thought it was oysters when I ordered it. Okay, wait, the food. I was like, oh, I'm like pumping iron? That too. I was pumping iron and eating mussels. Okay. But basically I was at this Italian restaurant and this menu was so crazy.

And I was like, when I see a menu of so many words, I don't comprehend. So I just choose whatever like pops out when the waiter comes. So she came. So you're not a picky eater? No. Well, no.

But I'm open to trying things without reading what was actually there. Unlike Nick, who is a very picky eater. Well, here's the thing. So I saw mussels and I was like, I've never tried that. In my head, it was an oyster. What's the difference? It's a smaller oyster maybe.

It's a clam. I've never had either one. Here's the thing, I've had clams. Can we find out, can we Google? I've had clams, but clams are like sandy. Like there's always sand in the clam. There's escargot, there's clams, there's oysters, and there's mussels.

Mussels, right. So I don't know where the mussels came from, but I ordered it. My family was gagging the whole time. They told me they're like, you're not gonna like it. Like they were betting on me not to ordered it. My family was gagging the whole time. They told me they're like you're not gonna like it like They were betting on me not to like it. They come out with this giant plate of mussels. I Ate the whole thing. Hey, you enjoyed it. It wasn't bad you you thought it wasn't bad and you ate the whole thing

I thought thing like despite them. It looks like oysters have thicker irregular shells compared to thinner smoother shells of mussels. They are smaller in size. But what is the difference between the taste? Probably not much. I mean you kind of just swallow them whole. Have you tried mussels before though? I know I've had oysters. Okay. Well oysters are like the bougier mussel right? Yeah I guess so right?

Like if like oysters are classier and the mussels are just like... Peasant food? Yeah like what's more expensive? Yeah. Interesting. I definitely think you should try it though if you haven't. If like oysters are classier and the muscles are just like- Peasant food? Yeah, like what's more expensive? Interesting. I definitely think you should try it though, if you haven't, it was a bad. It's fun to chew on.

What's the one where you open it and like shuck it into your mouth? Shuck oysters. Oysters, right? I think oysters, yeah. You shuck oysters. Shuck isn't like, is that the- Shucking oysters.

The gagging down it. You shuck it, I think it's like you open it, right? The open part's the shuck, not the dripping it down your throat. Is that what- Is. You shuck it. I think it's like you open it, right? Oh, the open part's the shuck, not the dripping it down your throat. Is that what it is? Is the shuck? I'm pretty sure. Here, I'll do a quick search for a while.

I've never eaten anything that- Ever. That lives at the bottom of the ocean. Oh, really? Yeah. And it's not a shellfish allergy situation? It's a kosher thing. It's a kosher.

You can't have shellfish, but also I probably wouldn't eat it anyway. And that's because the Jewish religion finds it to be a dirty food. Is that what kosher is? No, I don't know the exact reasons, but by kosher law, you can only eat fish that have fins and scales. Interesting. So it's like tuna, salmon.

Which is interesting because a baby tuna doesn't have scales, right? But a grown tuna does. So people doesn't they don't eat it Wow, that's the first time I like it might be the other way around but some people in kosher culture because I know some people That like believe it differently. Uh-huh. I think a baby tuna has scales, but then a grown tuna doesn't like it sheds it off That's very interesting or vice versa. Okay, learning this for the anyways. I don't have menu anxiety But what is menu anxiety? So Leo was telling me this, that apparently a study came out

and a lot of people just can't order food. Like they get the menu, they can't read it, and they don't know how to communicate with waiters. Can you articulate this a little bit better, Leia? Yeah, so that was mainly the title of the article, but the article was discussing how- What's the title again? Why 30% of Americans experience menu anxiety.

30% is a lot. I am part of that 30%. Really? 100%. Yeah, I look up a menu before I go out to eat to figure out what I'm gonna order when I get there. What is menu anxiety exactly? It's basically saying an entire generation was raised with participation trophies

and being emotionally coddled. Now they're struggling so much in life that they need their parents for job interviews and get anxiety having to talk to a waitress. Unless you wanna join your adult child at their job interview, take action to prepare your kids for life. Are there people who are taking their parents

for job interviews? I hope not. What would you do if my mom just like popped into the Zoom? I'd definitely be intrigued. I would ask questions. She comes with me everywhere. It'd be like your version of love is blind. Meet the parents before you meet the person.

That would be an interesting interview tactic. But if you brought your mom to answer for you, that would probably have gone well. By the way, my mom would have crushed the interview. Is that, but is that really happening? Our parents? I don't think so, but I think it's alluding to the fact that a lot of people have their parents order their food.

Like I've been to many like family outings where I'm sitting there and then like friends, their parents will order their food. Like they'll be like, mom, can you do this? But like, can you order it a specific way? You're adult friends. That too, yeah. I mean, mostly when I was younger,

but I've like experienced it here and there. Well, the point of the article was basically to say that we're coddling our children too much. That's the point of the article, but it was an interesting title because I experienced menu anxiety. So when you sit down at a restaurant, you don't, you're just going for the flow.

I don't have menu anxiety because I know what I like and I know what I don't. And I have a limited palette. I like a lot of things, but there are some things I simply do not fuck with. So it's almost the opposite of menu anxiety because I'm already kind of crossing off. Menu security.

You know, like the Cheesecake Factory, which I won't go to is notoriously known for having a Bible menu. Every kind of food. Yeah. They have it all. They got Asian, they got Mexican, they got Italian, they got American,

they got everything. Every cuisine. Every cuisine. They got mussels and oysters, you know? You're the grown version of the meme of like the chicken and mac and cheese little kid that goes to every restaurant and orders chicken and mac and cheese.

Cause I know that that's the consistent option. Well, what I do, I go to restaurants for the most part based off of dishes I like at the restaurant. I like to, I love to eat. It's one of my favorite things. I like to enjoy the food I eat.

And so when I pick a restaurant, sort of it being like a place I've never gone to, I already know what I'm gonna get. Like, there are restaurants I've gone to for a decade and I've always ordered the same thing. Well, I have a question for you. So I know a lot of parents whose kids are very picky with what they eat. They'll only eat plain noodles and ketchup or they'll only eat.

Ketchup kids. Yeah, like they have a very limited palette of what they will or won't eat. And Danny and I have always talked about how like, our kid is going to eat everything. What is your take on that? Like, what are you guys gonna do with River? Like, if she has like a-

It was interesting you bring this up, because I don't have an answer. Natalie has a strong opinion on this, I think, to some degree, which I think I agree with. And I think her big thing is, you know, like the classic, you have to eat that, or you're eating, you know, like almost forcing your kid to eat something,

you know, type of thing. And I remember that, like, you know, my parents would make dinner and whatever they made, you had to eat, you know, and like, I, like pea soup. I don't fuck with pea soup, fucking disgusting. And every once in a while, my mom would make pea soup. And it was not to exaggerate, felt like torture. As a nine year old kid, I was like,

the fact that you're gonna make me eat this pea soup feels like torture. But Nali doesn't want to ever make our kids eat something they really don't like. Which I understand the premise in a sense, where it's just like you're gonna force your kid to eat something. As two people who have strong opinions

about foods they don't like, I don't wanna force my kid to eat something that they just don't like. That seems, I don't know, not productive. I understand that, but at the same time, there are certain foods. What I won't do is I will not take my kids orders for dinner or lunch.

You'll make them order themselves. No, I'm saying, oh, like this is what's for dinner. Got it. And if my kid doesn't wanna eat that, no problem. But this is your only option. You eat it or you don't. You eat it or you don't. Yeah.

I don't know if Natalie agrees with that last part, to be totally honest. So then when it comes to restaurants and menus, will you order for your kids? Like obviously she won't be able to speak for herself, but like once she's of knowledge of like what she likes, what she can order and can speak, will you do it for her?

Oh, I mean, as soon as River is able to, you know, I don't know whatever development stage she's gonna be able to do what. Also I have like, I don't know, I have this thing where River, she's four months now, and I don't know if it's just like, River's a genius or she's just doing things that normal four months old do.

Last night, she hurt, she's, you know, Natalie pumps and we put in a bottle sometimes, I'll feed her with a bottle. And River can hold a big long bottle all by herself, and she knows how to do it. And she like feeds herself. Wow. And I'm thinking she's a fucking genius and super strong.

But also maybe that's just what four months old do. I don't know. I can't tell. So every day I'm always like, my kid's a fucking genius. And then I'm like, wait, or maybe she's just developing like a- Maybe she's just on track. On track, I don't know.

She'll be speaking in a week. One of the two, but that being said, like whenever I have this, I think I've mentioned this, but I have this kind of fantasy and that is, you know, whatever age River is able to start reading is that I want her to practice her independence as early as possible. And so Natalie and I, we often travel for a variety of things, and I'm sure,

like we already now travel with River. And I don't know what age she'll be able to do this, but as early as she can, I want to, with River, I want her to get us to our destination. I think that's really smart. I want her to get us to our destination. I think that's really smart. I want her to be able to read the departure signs at an airport and yeah, we'll be there, but we won't tell her what to do.

No, navigating an airport, I mean, I think I flew for the first time by myself when I was already 17 or 18 years old and I was petrified. Yeah. And so ordering whatever, if River is capable to do it, I want her to figure it out. I want River to know how to problem solve. I want her to deal with stress and get over it.

I want her to face challenges. And like more than anything, I wanna teach her. I wanna teach her how to deal with adversity and problem solve and emotionally regulate. And if she feels anxious and stressed, I want her to figure out how to calm herself down and solve problems. And I wanna give her more opportunities

to solve more problems and more challenges at the appropriate level. I don't wanna bombard her, but I wanna, I want her, all the things that it seems like parents aren't doing for fear of whatever parents, I will not coddle her, that's for sure. Do you feel like there's been kind of an uptick in parents coddling their children?

It seems like it, I don't know. I haven't really hung out with a ton of parents. It's funny on this, obviously, Ask Nick, the episode we get a lot of parenting questions, and there's always a lot of parents, and I think I mentioned this before, but it's just like what I am certain of, and even with River, River's gonna complain about something about our, how we raised her, you know? We're gonna do something wrong. I don't know. Or we're not gonna do it wrong. Or she'll think we'll do it wrong. Or, you know, we'll do something at five, and then 15 years from now, there'll be some study that says we fucked up and then like

River will be pissed at us. I don't fucking know. But I do find it interesting as a society, you know, like again, I think all goods things can be weaponized, can be manipulated, can be intended for good but used for bad. You know, also, you know, for example, on this show, I often give advice on the show. Actually, that's all I do. No. For this particular show. And in, you know, a lot of times people are like, oh, that's good advice or whatever,

but like, we have no idea when we get off the call with these people, how they receive that advice, how they implement that advice. And there are oftentimes we hear things and we think, oh, that's good advice. And then we think we're taking that advice and implementing it, but we're also implementing it poorly or wrongly.

You get what I'm saying? Yeah, for sure. That's why therapy is so hard because you can listen to a therapist tell you what to do or how to fix things. And you can think you're doing it, but in real time, if you were to go back and have the benefit of watching it,

you're like, what are you doing? I think we're really good at tricking ourselves Yes I'm really good at tricking myself to believe I'm doing something when I know I'm not I'm not taking the advice the way that it Was intended. Yeah, listen. I think it's harder and harder to be a parent these days. I think you know social media We've often talked about that and things like that. There are challenges, but there's challenges of every generation. Every generation has new challenges. New challenges, it's always gonna be difficult

to be a parent and things like that, but it does seem like we have an entire generation of kids who are in fact more anxious, more depressed, more suicidal, seem less capable of dealing with challenges and adversity. And there is a reason for that. And I don't think it's solely on the parents, but I think a lot has to do with what is being taught to our kids.

I've heard a lot of gentle, I don't even know what gentle parenting, can you actually Google gentle parenting for me? Yeah, I actually thought that was a good idea. Because I've heard of that a lot, you know, and I don't and I know and I'm willing to guess there's probably a lot of aspects of gentle parenting that make a ton of sense and that will even do with River. But again, I guarantee there's a lot of people who have learned about gentle parenting thought about, oh, this is good. I want to parent this way and then try to implement

gentle parenting, but did it in a, and then try to implement gentle parenting, but did it in a way that necessarily wasn't productive or maybe gave their kid a bad habit. So gentle parenting focuses on parenting children without shame, blame, and punishment. This style of parenting centers around collaboration between parents and children. I will not collaborate with my child.

I know a lot of people with gentle parenting, they don't use negative words like no or stop. So that's where it's not everybody, but some people, they draw the line of gentle as positive words. So yes or please, like you have to find a way to say no without saying no so that they know that no is actually a serious word when they hear it.

Yeah, so like when your kid does something that they should not have done, instead of going straight to anger and yelling and saying, you shouldn't do that, go in the corner, go in timeout, go in your room. Well, never saying no and never punishing your kid are two very different things than not overreacting and showing anger.

You know what I'm saying? And I guess that's the, and what I'm kinda talking about is the- It's a spectrum. The disconnect from the implementation of some of these things. And like, like we just read, like that's such a vague, to me, that sounds nutty.

What is gentle parenting? We're just reading this on the internet. Gentle parenting is an evidenced based approach. Okay, so I guess it sounds like they've done some studies. Founded by Sarah Aqwell Smith in the early 2000s. Gentle parenting focuses on parenting children without shame, I'm all for that. Blame, I don't know.

And punishment, definitely not down for the no punishment. This parenting centers around collaboration. I won't be collaborating with my kids. I'm not gonna negotiate. I think it's like you create like clear boundaries with your children. Like they know what they shouldn't do. But it sounds like you collaborate

on what those boundaries should be. This is a good example that I've always heard is if a kid grabs markers or crayons and draws on a wall, you don't say, no, stop doing that. You say, can we put that down? You ask. Yeah, can we put that down? And then like later on, like the collaboration could be you frame it on the wall. Like, we put that down? You ask. Yeah, can we put that down and then later on,

the collaboration could be you frame it on the wall, okay, that's an art piece. No fucking way. So that's where people over-correct, but also you just don't say negative words, no, stop doing that, you're wrong for doing that, and then punish them. No, you can, but then here's a question,

Jen question. Yeah. Who teaches, or when does your child learn that there's just some things you can't do. Agreed, yeah. Like I guess there's a question I have for the gentle parenting styles out there. What happens when your kid,

and I think that's the big question where, you know, with this, you know, the menu anxiety is what happens when the world doesn't gentle parent your child? They turn 18 and they go out to the world and they get a job where their boss doesn't implement the gentle parenting tactics that their parents did for 18 years.

I would assume culture shock, right? Yeah. Well, I mean, I think that the goal of gentle parenting is to encourage confidence and independence. So that's where I was saying, with the markers on the wall, a lot of parents are like, let's frame it, this is an artwork.

Like you encourage them through, okay, maybe you should be doing art, let's get you a canvas instead of the wall. Instead of like framing the conversation of like you graffiti my wall, you destroy the wall. Well, I can't, again, I don't think it would be appropriate for you to run into a room,

which I'm sure a lot of parents have and saw that their newly painted wall that probably cost'm sure a lot of parents have, and saw that their newly painted wall that probably costed them a lot of money just got painted on by their three-year-old. A future Picasso. Yes, and since their three-year-old probably doesn't know better, I don't think it would be all that productive

to storm in and be like, what are you doing? Shame on you, spank them, make them cry. That doesn't seem productive. But saying, stop doing that, that's not okay. And get on their level, keep the energy. A lot of it I think is, it's so fascinating too. It's like River was upset yesterday, she's a baby. And I was warming up her bottle.

So she's usually, she was hungry, right? It seemed like, and I started feeding her and she was worked up. And so she was, and like sucking down the milk. And so I just kind of had this, I don't even know if I did it right, but I was just like, I started breathing slower, you know, and I was like, slow down, slow down.

And like, as soon as I started breathing slower, she started breathing slower. And it's fascinating just the energy, like when we were going through that crisis in the Cayman Islands, you could tell that River felt our anxiousness. Yeah, for sure. She felt our fears.

And I think children are incredibly receptive. And so I think there's a way to, I'm not an expert, so whatever, but this is my personal opinion, but I think there's a way to scold your kid, to teach them right and wrong, that there's things you can and cannot do, to tell them no, to punish them,

and keep your energy at a level that's easier for them to comprehend, and not scare or shame them into thinking they're a bad person. I think a kid can learn that there's things that you can and cannot do, versus making them feel like they're bad for doing what they did,

especially if they wouldn't have known better. I mean, at some point, River's gonna do things that she just doesn't know you should or shouldn't do. And then there'll be that moment, that teachable moment of like, hey, you's gonna do things that she just doesn't know you should or shouldn't do. And then there'll be that moment, that teachable moment of like, hey, you can't do that. Now, hopefully she listens and behaves. And then sometimes there might be a moment

where she doesn't. What about, I guess, question with gentle parenting. What happens, as I'm understanding that most every kid does, is this test those boundaries. So I think that what you're explaining is verging on gentle parenting a little bit because- I would imagine there's like everything in a spectrum. It has a range.

And I think that like, depending on how old the child is, the gentle parenting will adapt and be different, obviously. But I think for the main part, what gentle parenting is, is if your child is throwing a temper tantrum or if they're doing something wrong, rather than to yell at them and immediately put them in a timeout or in their room, what gentle parenting is, is if your child is throwing a temper tantrum or if they're doing something wrong, rather than to yell at them

and immediately put them in a timeout or in their room, because that makes them fearful of like authority figure. It makes them fearful of, you know, sometimes as you said, they don't know what they've done wrong. And so they're immediately just like scared. And yeah, they pick up on the energy. They get anxious. Yeah, like three or four, but like seven or eight,

they're gonna- So then the approach would be- I'm 43 years old. I have vivid memories. Yeah, like three or four, but like seven or eight, they're gonna, I'm 43 years old, I have vivid memories of being, hell, for example, when I was like six, I went through a period of like being too lazy to go to the bathroom and I'd pee my pants. You know, I would be outside playing, I would be having too much fun,

I'd have to go to the bathroom, I was fully potty trained, and yet I, you know, and then something would happen where I'd laugh too hard or whatever and I'd pee my pants. So gentle parenting approach for that situation would be for your parents to sit you down and say, hey, Nick, listen. What happens the third or fourth time when I did that? Because it was, and again, I have, I was like five or six, seven years old.

I vividly, I remember, I have a vivid memory of me hiding behind something because I had just peed my pants and I knew I was fucked. I knew I was in trouble. But I also have a vivid memory that this not being the first time I did. So you were scared that you'd get in trouble. Of course, because I knew this was the umpteenth time

that my parents have been like, when you need to go to the bathroom, you need to listen to yourself, and you need to go inside and go to the bathroom, and this is part of being a potty trainer, being an adult. So it'd be more like explaining what happens when you pee in your pants, right? My parents, my point is, I had done that.

I disobeyed them. I didn't not learn my lesson. Like a kid, it didn't quite register the first time or I was half paying attention. So you understood the repercussion. Yeah, I understood that I would, yeah. And I remember being very young. I have a vivid memory of this. And I just remember being like, fuck, I didn't listen.

I'm in trouble. So it was more that you were afraid of getting in trouble than what happened? Not that I was a dirty, dirty boy. No, that I didn't listen. Yes, I didn't listen. I didn't go inside. I don't know, my approach would be do your own laundry. Maybe, yeah. Well, I was too young to do laundry then.

Right, so. It's kind of my point. It's like, who's gonna wash these? So you would make your kid just, well, have no clothes? I'd be like, all right, I'm gonna teach you how to do laundry so that the next time you pee in your pants, you have to do it. And if you don't want to have to do your own laundry then.

I mean, I don't mind that. I think that might be too young. I don't know if this is gentle parenting. This is just what I would do. I would be like, all right, here we go. This is the laundry machine. The next time this happens, because I've, you know, we've had this conversation multiple times. At five years old?

I don't know what five year olds can understand. I think babies understand a lot more than we think, but. No, but obviously they're not going to actually do their laundry, but you make them like, this is what- That's a punishment. I have to do every time you pee in your pants. And so now in the future, you'll do it yourself. And if you don't want to have to do it yourself, then go to the bathroom.

That's a punishment. It's a gentle punishment, in my opinion. Get in your room. Spank you or, you know, put you nose to door, go sit in the corner. You can't wear pants anymore. True, which is, some people would correct that way. Yeah, I have vivid memories of my dad just losing his fucking shit on us

because we weren't listening, we weren't behaving, and every parent has a breaking point. Of course, I can imagine gentle parenting is exhausting. We were fucking around, and it's just like, I just like, again, I think we all agree that the implementation of gentle parenting and like the spectrum of how gentle it is seems to matter greatly. But like, how do you teach your kid how to respect elders, the difference between right and wrong, you

know, to understand disappointment, to be told no, to be told no, without an explanation. That's the thing that seems to be the case when a lot of people talk about. We all act, you know, for all the people out there, like I just wanted the closure. We all act entitled to an explanation of why the world feels unfair in that moment. Yeah, I'm super guilty of this. Whatever that moment is, we all feel entitled for people to explain to us

why things are the way they are. And that's just not the reality of the world. The world, like life is not fair. It is just not. It is not accommodating to our individual needs. And I think we are doing a disservice to our kids and ourselves by acting like we are entitled to- A reason.

A reason every time or just an explanation to like always make sure our feet like, again, I want my child to be in touch with their feelings. I also want them to recognize that other people have feelings too and that their feelings aren't paramount to everyone else's. And sometimes we just have to accept the things the way they are.

I think that by the way is part of gentle parenting too. Oh great. To understand and empathize with things that aren't always fair. This is how it is, this is how it's going to be. And then they learn that this is how it is, this is how it's going to be in their life. That's great, but you know, it's always one thing. And I, oh my God, do I plan on like having these conversations with River and just talking through it, but at some point we're just gonna have to parent and say no and say, go stand in the corner, you didn't listen, these are the consequences for your

actions. You know what I'm saying? And I'm guessing this will be after we sit her down and be like, hey, let's talk about it. But like I gave the example of like peeing my pants, I have, still was a very young kid and still remember that when I was hiding, you know, it wasn't because I was afraid my parents would shame me for peeing my pants, it was because I knew I didn't listen. I knew that I was supposed to go inside and I was holding it too long and I didn't want to go in. You were self-aware. Oh yeah.

That's good. I think even though you didn't follow the rules. You were self-aware. Yeah. That's good. But I think even though you didn't follow the rules, you were self-aware that you did something wrong and the reason that you did something wrong and that- But at that point it would have been nuts to me if my parents had sent me down and be like, so why'd you do that? You know, that's not okay. Like, no.

I think at that point it's just like, you know you did something wrong, sitting in your soiled underwear. Go to your room, take off your clothes, your play time's over, you know, and these are the consequences of your actions, you know? I do have some friends that were, like, raised with gentler styles of parenting and they turned out okay.

Like, they were never punished, they never, like, had to do chores that were, like, in response to something they did. What is okay? I wasn't so, I wasn't punished so much as a kid. But I can't imagine it cause I was raised by two army brats, like kids of like army, like families. Like for me, it was not the opposite of gentle.

So, but I think like some kids- I think to your point, I think you can gentle parent and raise amazing kids. Exactly. Yeah, I think you can gentle parent and fuck your kids up. I think you can be more militant in your parenting and raise some great kids. And you can fuck them up by being militant parents.

I think a lot of it is the nuance your parenting and raise some great kids and you can fuck them up by being militant parents. I think a lot of it is the nuance and just how attentive you wanna be. And who the kid is too, because yeah, you can do all you can with parenting and at a certain point, there's not, you can't control your kid for their whole life. Ah, you know, I already have some nieces and nephews,

like I love them, but they're like little fucks, they're little brats and they're not my kids. And it's just like, I look at them, I'm like, I don't want River to be like that. Yeah. And it feels like a parenting choice. It's tough though, because until we're in that position, it's impossible to judge.

But like how, for example, how I was raised, which doesn't seem to be a thing that's what goes on these days, is like respecting elders and respecting authority. That's how I was raised too. My parents didn't have a problem with other adults telling us what was right or wrong. Doesn't seem to be the case these days.

Other adults could yell at me if I was misbehaving. Listen, if some adult was yelling at me for something my parents didn't have a problem with me doing, then sure, I'm sure they would step in and have my back. But there seems to be a lot of like, no one tells my kid what to do but me, even if their kid is being a fuck. Yeah, that is true.

Interesting. That is not something that happens so much. How do you respect authority? And how do you respect your elders? How do you prepare your kid for the fact that someday they will be an adult and the world's not gonna accommodate the fact that they're only used to their parents

telling them what to do? And usually those parents, the ones that tend to be, I like the parents who seem to be afraid of disappointing their kids or upsetting their kids or having their kids frustrated at them. And how do you stop from going from being a gentle parent to being a parent that is, I don't know. I see, listen, clearly see there's value

in aspects of gentle parenting. Yeah, I mean, I'm definitely down to play around with like a mix, you know? Take some things that I like from it, implement them, see how it works. But clearly there seems to be a pattern with a lot of young kids these days. And I do think social media plays a huge role in just like how anxious the kids are these days.

But I also think there's something to be said about a lack of kids being able to face challenges and adversity, I don't know. Yeah, menu anxiety. Menu, too many, well, I mean, there's all, like too many choices. Like why are they given so many choices? The abundant, you know, I don't know. I will say shucking in oysters

when you open the shell of it, so. No, not that. Wrap that up. We figured it out. Anyways, we have a writer in here before we get to our calls. We do. We do. So the writer in here writes in with the tagline,

my husband is jealous of a fictional character. She writes in saying, hi Nick, the other day my husband and I, together for nine years, married for three, both 27 years old, were hanging out with another couple and I was talking to my wife about a book I was reading, Iron Flame.

And I made a comment that I had a crush on the main character. After our friends left, he got very jealous and he said that's not okay and said it's the same as if he were to tell me he had a crush on a real person. I don't think there's harm in what I said. In my opinion, it's like having a crush on Aladdin as a kid, harmless and not real. Now I'm afraid to finish the book because if he sees me reading it, he gets mad or uncomfortable. Are his feelings unwarranted? How do I communicate to him

it's just a character in a book and it's a joke because it's a fictional character or am I looking or am or am I looking at the situation wrong? Interesting. Very interesting. Reminds me of my first girlfriend. Do tell. I was 18 and she was a huge NSYNC fan. Fair. Oh you were jealous of Justin Timberlake? Not Justin, because she was one of the gals who was like, I'm not going to like Justin. She's different. I'm a J.C. Sanchez girlie. Am I saying that right?

All I know is Justin Timberlake. She was a J.C. fan. And his most 18-year-old girls, whatever, J.C. if you know, you know. And she had like a framed picture of him in a poster. And I remember sounding like this guy. It bothered me. It got to the point where I was like, why do you have like, it's just like, why you talk about him as if like you wish you were with him.

And I reflect back on that and thinking and I my biggest takeaway is how ridiculous I was about that I let something like that bother me. I guess it's just like it's one of those things where if it bothers your husband then you know and if you care about your husband's feelings then you should care. Do I agree? Do I think it's silly for him to be this triggered by a book? Yes, but there is a reason for it, right? And I always say like insecurities, jealousy comes from insecurity.

And insecurity comes from either something we're doing to make our partners feel more insecure or something that has happened to them from their past that allows this insecurity to be brought forward into the relationship so that when they're triggered, they take out their insecurities in the form of jealousy on us. And clearly this is a point of jealousy of her husband.

He is jealous of this character. So it's coming from a place of insecurity. So now she needs to figure out, is that just like, are they disconnected as a couple? Like again I don't know a lot of details but like how much does she talk about her husband the way he thinks you talk about him? You know maybe a lot maybe she's maybe if we had her on the call she'd be like oh my god like we fuck all the time we have great sex I'm always telling him he looks good so it doesn't seem, I don't understand

why he's making such a big deal about this. But I wouldn't be surprised if the truth was, how long have they been together? Nine years. Married for three. Married for three. They have kids? No.

No kids. Not that we know of. Not that we know of. So nine years. And they're 27, so I wonder how many past relationships. They've been together since they were 18. They've gotten comfortable with each other. And now that I realize that they've been together

since they're 18, kind of using my example when I was 18, he's just, yeah, I think he's probably old school in the sense, you know, you get married at a young age, is very unfamiliar with the sense, you know, you get married at a young age, is very unfamiliar with the idea of her like being tempted by someone else. I don't know, I would just find out why you think, you know, it's, this is a, this is not like the right example isn't just to dismiss him outright and tell him he's being stupid or silly or ridiculous. You can do that and not necessarily be wrong.

I bet if she asks all her girlfriends, and be like, your husband, he's being ridiculous. But the fact is it bothers him. So you can either dismiss it or you can try to find out. You can connect with them and be like, all right, well listen, your feelings, you validate them. I don't want this to upset you. I like this book, I'm sorry if it did, but can we talk about, well listen, your feelings, you validate them, I don't want this to upset you.

I like this book, I'm sorry if it did, but can we talk about, you know, and see if he's willing to have the conversation. Hopefully he doesn't dismiss it and whatever, but like at least attempt to have the conversation. But within that, reassure him, you know, like compliment him, make him feel, like again, I'd be willing to bet

that she could probably do better in the making him feel a little desired, sexy, you know, however she talks about this character, or my guess is, he would like her to talk about him that way. Yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head. I think that this isn't something to ignore. I think this is definitely something that you should dive into deeper

and have a deeper conversation about because this isn't going to be the last time that something like this happens. And if it's not this situation, there's gonna be something else that comes up in the future and you shouldn't have to stop reading a book that you're enjoying or whatever else in the future without figuring out what the deeper issue

is that's going on here. Yeah, because, you know, Mary, together for nine, Mary for three, maybe he's seeing this as he's, you know, her talking about this other fictional character, fine, yeah, it's fictional, sure, but it's not that far-fetched for him for at the trigger and insecurity of like,

well, does that mean I'm not giving you what you need? Why are you fantasizing about someone, okay, or maybe this character, he reads or learns about this character and he's like, I'm nothing like this character. Yeah, maybe they've been together for so long, he's like, are you looking for something different? Are you trying to test the waters?

We all know, we all hear the whole men are visual and women more like from an, like, you know, men fall in love with their eyes, women fall in love with their ears type of, you know, stereotypes, you know, type of thing. And so, yeah, and we all know how the girlies, when rightfully so, feel about their man, like, liking naked quote-unquote naked women on Instagram and most rightfully so don't like that. Well men know that women are different you know in the sense so you reading you know like a book or an audio kind of that kind of describes an event or a sexual erotica that were, you know, and he's thinking you're fantasizing about that type of man, you know, like how, what's the difference between that

and your partner looking at naked women? I know it's different. Or watching porn. Or I know it's different to you because you think, wow, you know, it's so visual, but you know, again, recognize how you are turned on versus how he is turned on. That's where my brain was going there because I was thinking of like 50 Shades of Grey. Yeah.

Like there was that whole wave of like all of the middle-aged women that were in relationships were reading it. I read it. Leia read it. For sure. But like with that being so popular, you weren't hearing much about the husbands or the men like getting mad that they were reading this clearly explicit erotica. So then it really goes down to it's an insecurity or lack of comfortability that she's not treating him the way that she views this character. Then the right relationship, like if you're in a relationship where you're sexually connected and

emotionally connected and you have a strong bond and then the Fifty Shades, for example, is a popular book slash movie. Then during that time it was popular your friends read it she picks it up you know I could see a world where for example like if that's where Nally and I were in you know we're in a season of like you know sex was good and we're just very connected I I don't see how that would bother me because her fantasies I wouldn't see take as her exploring somewhere else. It would be more,

cause I would feel comfortable telling me about fantasies and I would be a part of the fantasy or maybe that would represent something we could do type of thing, as opposed to immediately wondering why are you fantasizing about some other guy or something that I don't represent or I'm not familiar with so that I'm not comfortable with it and again, how connected you are in your relationship

when you're exploring these fantasies matters greatly to your partner's ability to either enjoy your fantasies along with you or be threatened by them. That's a great point. You know, and so I would, you know, yeah, check in with your husband and yeah, don't dismiss it. Don't make him feel stupid. Back to, you know't dismiss it, don't make him feel stupid. Back to gentle parenting, don't shame him.

Like, oh my God, you're so stupid. Oh my God, why would they even bother you? Don't be ridiculous. Like comments like that, which I think are very common to how we talk about our partners, matter. And I think men are very sensitive about stuff like that. And if they feel like they're not being desired or appreciated, you know, just like, you know,

women will often feel like they'll get insecure about it. You know? So that's what I would do. I would check in with them and try to reconnect. Yeah, I completely agree. Yeah, it's like, hey, I just wanna talk to you about this. You know? I also think by the way that she writes in, you can tell that she's like, he's just a fictional character.

He's just like Aladdin versus my husband is on this different pedestal. So I think in her perspective, like she already knows that they're not on the same level of like crush. But is that how he feels? So that's what I'm saying. So that's where I think like, I don't think she's wrong for feeling the way she does, but I think you're right where the communication communications that he recognizes the way that she sees it You know, it's I guess what? Yeah kind of back to the liking naked quote-unquote naked women as a heterosexual man I'm not even to try to explain it I guess what I'm trying to say is like it's not even an excuse

But we you know men don't think I guess what I'm saying, right or we think with I guess what I'm saying, right? Or we think with the wrong head, as they say, right? And sometimes when men think with the wrong head, our partners will wanna be like, what were you thinking? That's fucking gross. Why would you fucking do that? And the honest answer sometimes is, it's not nefarious or they were doing something sinister.

It's just like, I don't know, I saw it and I looked at it like a fucking eight-year-old type of thing, you know? Does it make it okay? I'm not expecting, you know, I saw it and I looked at it like a fucking eight year old type of thing. Does it make it okay? I'm not expecting any of the women partners in these heterosexual relations to be okay with some of their partners doing some of this shit. But my point is it's not always what they think it is. It's not, their partner isn't up to no good

like it comes across. But it's hard to put yourself in the head of this heterosexual man who's doing the thing that you can't comprehend. And I just think in those scenarios, that's where men and women can be different, in terms of how they interpret things. So this is all to say, just because you think it's silly

and you don't see it doesn't mean your husband is interpreting it the same way you are just the way, you know, it might be on the reverse end, you know. Yeah, it's worth that conversation. Yeah. Figure it out. So yeah, all right. Well, hopefully that was helpful.

Anyways, time to get to our callers. But before we do, don't forget to send in your questions at asknick at thevilefiles.com for all things Ask Nick, texting office hours. You know the drill. All right, let's go to our first caller. How's it going? Hi, I'm Melanie.

I'm 28 and I am carrying my best friend's baby and my mother-in-law does not approve. Okay, and when you say you're carrying your best friend's baby like through surrogacy, this is a surrogacy situation? Yes, it's a surrogacy situation. All right. Well, first of all, congratulations and obviously like I commend you on doing a very incredibly selfless act and helping your best friend, you know, give life. So I want to commend you for what you're doing and I think it's a real special thing. Thank you. I appreciate that. I'm really excited to be a part of it with her. How did it come to, how did that, I mean I'm curious. We'll get into your

mother-in-law but I am fascinated by the whole surrogacy process. Like obviously since like I recently became a father, I think it's just a fascinating thing. And I don't know what the future's gonna hold for Adali and I. And we hope to grow our family and we are obviously in a fortunate enough situation that if that's something we needed to do to grow our family, it would be an option.

But every time I hear about surrogacy, it almost feels sci-fi. It's almost like hard to believe it's an actual thing and it's becoming more and more commonplace. And anyways, I'm very fascinated by the process. So I am curious, how did you and your best friend have this conversation? And I'm really curious about your personal decision to say yes, because best friend or not, it's a huge, huge sacrifice, what you're willing to do for your friend. Yeah, absolutely.

So my best friend has been experiencing fertility issues for about three years now, two of which her and her husband have been doing IVF. And so it was kind of a situation where I've been firsthand kind of in this with her, seeing what she's going through. And I know also some of the financial challenges that have come with it. They're somewhat fortunate that they've been able to even do IVF at all. You know, that's not an option for some people, but they've had so

many rounds of IVF at this point that, you know, they're putting things on credit cards. They've just been very stressed out. We kind of reached a point where they had one embryo left in their batch of embryos. They knew that they were going to transfer it, but they were trying to decide, you know, after this last attempt, what do we want to do? Are we going to move on to adoption? Are we going to look into surrogacy? What, you know, what's our next step? I kind of just started thinking about it on my own, and she had briefly mentioned surrogacy, and she never asked, never implied anything as far as I'm concerned. But I just started thinking like, this is their last embryo. This could be their last shot. Maybe this is something that I could do for her. And so I talked to my husband

about it and he was really supportive from the start. And then we talked about, you know, all of the mental toll and physical toll and all of the things that come with it and how are we going to prepare for that, did a bunch of research, et cetera, and ultimately decided we were going to offer to do it for her. And then when we did, it took her a while to get back to us, her and her husband talked about it and they ultimately decided that that was going to be the best decision for them. They felt like that gave them the best odds of being able to have a baby that was biologically theirs, which is what, you know, of course they really wanted.

Sure, wow, wow. Do you have children of your own? I do, yes. So that's another aspect of it is I think, at least at the clinic that we're at, it's required for you to have carried a baby to term. Oh, interesting. So I have, yeah, so I have a one and a half year old,

you know, I've successfully carried a baby and term. Oh, interesting. So I have, yeah, so I have a one and a half year old, I've successfully carried a baby and had no issues at all. I've just been very fortunate. I've never had any kind of, no miscarriages or anything of that sort. And so, yeah, I mean, as we went through the process, it basically just, it just lined up perfectly. It seemed almost like it was like a fake kind of thing

because I was being told that I was perfect for it. So it kind of worked out. No, that's incredible. So let's get to the crux of why you call your mother-in-law, your husband's mom, your husband who obviously was a part of this decision. She doesn't agree with you guys. Is this a personal disagreement?

Is she referencing her faith and religion? Like where is it coming from? Yeah, so it started off like it seemed like it was coming from a place of concern, but it ended up turning into being about religion. So when we initially told her, it was while we were just going through the process, I wasn't pregnant or anything.

And she kind of just had an immediate reaction of, have you thought this through? It's going to be really hard for you to give up a baby and that kind of thing. Even though I disagreed with her because I felt like we had really thought through all of those aspects, I could at least feel like, okay, well, she's coming from a place of concern. I get that. I can appreciate that. But fast forward, he actually, my husband actually got a call from his brother the next day and he had a whole hour long tangent about

why it was the wrong thing to do. And so they argued about it for a while. And then about a week later, my mother-in-law texted my husband and said, are you guys still following through with surrogacy? And he said, yes. And she said, so sad, hope you change your mind. So my husband just picked up the phone and called her and was like, okay, you obviously have some thoughts about this, let's hash it out. And so she started referencing the Bible. And she basically was like, you need to consult with a preacher about this and about what

God thinks about this and what the Bible has to say about it. She went into the story of Abraham and Sarah. Is there anything in the Bible about surrogacy? No. Okay. I didn't think so. I mean, it's up to interpretation, I guess. Absolutely, yes. Yeah, so...

I am not... I'm the last person to go to in terms of like, I grew up very Catholic. I went to church most of my life. I don't know my Bible. Like a lot of people know their Bible. That being said, I'm pretty sure like God's all about like life, you know? And bringing life into this world. And, you know, it's always kind of funny. You know, I was thinking about this the other day. This is obviously not too far removed from the Harrison Buckner comments that obviously included surrogacy part of the conversation. I know it was a deeper kind of conversation, yada, yada, yada.

But in context to that, I was thinking about, again, I know a big part of this audience is a lot of people who do feel that shame and judgment from family members or their faith and religion and someone who kind of, I always, it's funny because like, I'm not a practicing Catholic, you know, I don't go to church anymore.

But I always had a very positive experience with my faith and a very positive experience with the people I interacted with. My reasonings for no longer going to church are just like more personal and I just kind of got less out of it, yada yada, not to explain. Being involved with a lot of people and knowing, you know, Christians or Catholics and that's kind of one in the same and same but different, yada yada. I always find it funny and ironic that often Christians or Catholics, and that's kind of one and the same, and same but different, yada, yada. I always find it funny and ironic that often Christians or Catholics, it's lumping Christians altogether. It's like when they want to justify something they want to do, especially like money or

wealth, they'll say, well, this is all part of God's plan. God wants me to have this gift. That's why I can accept this guilt-free is because, you know, God wouldn't bring this into my life if He didn't want me to have that, which, how could I argue with that? I just find it ironic when other people in this world do things that some Christians find to be not what they agree with. They will, you know, shame it and judge it and put it down and say, this isn't okay and God wouldn't want this. But I'm thinking, wait, well, why wouldn't, by that same logic of why you were able to accept whatever it is that you wanted to do,

didn't God give us the technology and the knowledge and the ability to have these things, to give life? Like, you know what I'm saying? Yes, you're saying everything I have said 20 times over because my husband and I are religious, but we're not traditional the way that she is. And the way I look at things is like, God gave certain people certain brains and certain, you know what I mean,

ability to think in these scientific ways and figure out how to use science to do these things. And I don't understand how you can't just as easily believe that God wants this because he, he put the people in place on this earth to be able to develop the science to be able to do this. I don't understand why so many people seem to think that religion and science can't go hand in hand. And I think that makes them uncomfortable. Yeah. Yeah. But it feels it feels at times hypocritical because it's very much cherry picking like his mom and not just his mom, but a lot of religious people that I know, they use science when it benefits them. Like she's had C-sections, she's had epidurals, but this is not

okay. And I get that it's different and it's not something that we're as familiar with because it's not as common, but nonetheless, it's all science-backed. You know, nowhere in the Bible did anybody give birth via c-section or have an epidural, but here we are. So... Yeah, I always find it amazing that like some religious people or Christians specifically, how they cherry pick like the seven deadly sins. Like pride and greed are two of the seven deadly sins. And I know a lot of prideful, wealthy Christians who are not giving a lot of money away. To others. And that's fine. I'm not even telling them to, but I just always find it like amazing

their willingness to weaponize their religion against people doing things that they're not comfortable with and they'll then they're easily go back and reference the Bible and reference their religion is you know to justify their own discomfort with an idea that they don't know much about because I think the truth is most people operate out of fear and my guess is to empathize with your mother-in-law is that she is afraid that this will limit you in her son's ability to grow your family. Yeah. You're not wrong about that. And it just comes down to that. And she, you know, and listen, I think there's a lot of

justifiable fears that come with surrogacy. Like I said before, it's a huge fucking sacrifice, you know? And the reality is, something could happen that could affect you and your husband's- My ability to have one later, yes. And they have said something about that, and I understand that, but my husband and I don't want any more children, and we've already had that conversation in depth,

and if anything, it's more him than me, but we're on the same page. But I kind of say, like, the door is cracked, and he says, it's shut, it's more him than me, but we're on the same page. But I kind of say like the door is cracked and he says it's shut, it's just not locked. That's kind of where we're at with whether or not we want another. So, you know, I feel like that's another thing though is that it's that's a conversation for me and my husband and whether or not we want to have more and it's not really anybody else's place to be. I mean, you can be upset that you're not gonna have more grandchildren or, you know,

but aside from that, it's just not, it shouldn't be a factor because that's for me and my husband to discuss, not anybody else. Yeah, is your mother-in-law aware of the fact that you guys have decided that? Yes, and I will say we kind of told her in this because that was one of her questions was what about having more kids? What if something happens and she doesn't want to pregnant again and and those kinds of things and my husband was like well

We've talked about that and we don't want to have anymore and so that really upset her. I think Yeah, she hated that. What was the last conversation you guys had with her about this? That was the last conversation And basically what it ended with was her trying to tell us, I think the story she was trying to use in the Bible, what she was trying to say is that it's not God's plan. And that God's plan... Does she know God's plan? That was my whole thought process was that the people who know God's plan for themselves, the best is themselves. So for her to try to speak on what God's plan is for anybody

other than herself, it's just she doesn't know better than we do what God's plan is for us. She doesn't know what our friend's God's plan is for them either. Jared Sussman Yeah. Well, I also like it. We were, I was talking about this with my team yesterday. I just, genuine question for you. As someone who's a... Courtney Yeah. Jared Sussman...identifies as a faith-based person who is involved in church. Like where does free will come into play? Because I'm always perplexed by,

it's been my understanding that one of the greatest gifts that God ever gave us was free will. And I always find it amazing, the lack of acknowledgement of free will when people talk about God's plan? Yeah. Well, I mean, free will is more of, I mean, and my husband and I, by the way, we don't go to church. So that's another thing. We're just kind of, I don't know how to explain it. You don't need to explain it to me. But free will, yeah. So the reason free will comes into play is because it's more like God has the

ability to know all is kind of the concept, but he chooses not to because he acknowledges that the best way for us to be able to live our lives is for us to have free will. So that's kind of, if that makes any sense. No, it does. I just, it's always, again, back to, it was a bit rhetorical, but it's just like we're, again, a lot of people love to mention God's plan to people and throw God's plan into people's face when it doesn't align with what they plan or they want for themselves or they want for the other people around them.

And it's just a crock of shit. It's always just frustrating when the people you care most about, kind of like, again, use your faith against them to ultimately say, hey, I'm just a little scared. I'm disappointing your decision not to grow your family. This decision, I'm very uncomfortable with it. It's new to me. There's more I don't know about this than I know and it's just kind of very scary and I'm worried for you guys and honestly I just kind of want more grandchildren and I wish people would just be more honest with their feelings rather than throwing calling up and just throwing Bible

passages in their face and try to guilt them in making a decision. And it's offensive because you're using our own religion against us and you're trying to, like you said, guilt us by using the very thing that we value and you're trying to tell us basically that what we're doing is against God, is against our faith. You're telling us that we're defying God or doing something, essentially the implication is us that we're defying God or doing something.

Essentially the implication is that what we're doing is immoral. And I kind of expected that his family was not going to approve of this just because we've just had a lot of issues where it feels like they don't approve of a lot of the things that we, the choices we make. But I didn't expect it to be based in religion. I was kind of shocked by that. I didn't even realize that there's like a whole slew of people out there who think that surrogacy is an immoral thing to do. That never even crossed my mind. You know what it is? You know what the truth is? My gut is that they think it's weird.

And they're uncomfortable with the idea. And so they've decided it's immoral. And people often like to label things as immoral when they find it to be different or weird or something they object to. Good, I know there's a plenty of things in the Bible, you know, like homosexuality, obviously the Bible has a lot of opinions that I don't agree with and things like that.

But like I said, I'm pretty sure there's nothing that speaks to surrogacy. And you're certainly open for interpretation. I bet some people could find a quote here or there that says, I don't know, this kind of does loosely deal with it. But again, it's just people using what they don't understand and things they find weird or different and then using religion to make their point. No, I mean, I agree. It is weird. It's wild. I mean, it amazes me that we can do it, but I look at it as it's weird and amazing, not it's weird and therefore bad. But mean, it amazes me that we can do it, but I look at it as it's weird and amazing,

it's weird and therefore bad. But yeah, and the book of the Bible that she used is basically a story about a man and a woman who can't get pregnant. God tells them they're going to get pregnant, but they just need to wait. And so they take it upon themselves for the husband has sex with another woman and impregnates her. And so to me, it's like for that to be related to surrogacy makes no sense because it's, first off, that's one of the Teen Commandments that he violated there is adultery. So... Wait, that's in the Bible? Yeah. So wait, he cheats on his wife? Yeah, he cheats on his wife. I don't know the exact details of the story. This is like a very synopsis type version of it. But yeah, he cheats on his wife. I'm pretty sure the exact details of the story. This is like a very synopsis type version of it.

But yeah, he cheats on his wife. I'm pretty sure the wife agrees to it, but it's so that he can impregnate another woman so that they can have a baby. And it's not the same. And this is meant to be like a positive thing in the Bible? Like this is the answer to the problem? No, it's supposed to be,

no, it's supposed to be like they're defying God's plan because God came down and told them, you are going to have children. You're just not going to right now. And they basically were like, screw God's plan. We're going to take it in our own hands. Yeah. Well, yeah. Again, what doesn't track is because by their logic, like God gave, again, us free will, and then he invented man and woman and the ability to have sex, and literally it's one of the Ten Commandments. That has nothing to do with science. How do they answer the question of, God gave us the gift and technology and the ability to make scientific advancements in order for us to give life? My husband didn't say that to them.

I'd be curious to know how they answered that. What my husband said back, which I thought was a great trump card, but I've since been told that it's not, is that the foundation of Christianity is surrogacy, and thank God Mary said yes to being a surrogate. And I thought that was a great response. And I've been told since that that's not a good response

because Mary wasn't a surrogate, Jesus was Mary's son. But, you know, I think the point is though, if neither story is about surrogacy is the point, neither one is related. You can loosely try to tie it, but neither one ultimately is. It's all up to interpretation. And I think unless God parts the clouds himself and comes down and tells you the story was meant to be about surrogacy, I don't think it's fair to assume that that's definitively what it is. For sure. Yeah.

Everyone's just kind of trying to make an argument basically and win. So I have an opinion on what I think you two should do, which is nothing, kind of. You've made a decision. You are literally already pregnant. The most important thing is, is that you and your husband are aligned here. And quite frankly, you do not need these people to agree or accept your decision. You're literally already doing it. And I think when it comes to these situations that family members, decisions we make that

our loved ones are uncomfortable with and whether they use religion or they use, you know, there's a lot of people who aren't religious when we make decisions that are uncomfortable, that make our family members or loved ones uncomfortable, they'll use other things, you know, that aren't religion to weaponize. And it's the same logic, right? They have a hard time articulating their truth or just the fact that it makes them uncomfortable because we don't want to sound ignorant. We always want to sound like we are valid in our feelings rather than saying this makes me uncomfortable and so therefore I disagree with it. I think it's, you know,

show not tell. You know, show them that this isn't going to affect you and your husband's relationship. Grandma was never probably going to be happy with the fact that you guys as of now don't want to have more children. So either way, she's going to have to come around. And I just think you just want, lead with love. You're just like, listen, my point is when I say do nothing, you need to stop trying to convince them to agree with it. You know, you need to get on the call and be like, well I was thinking about like, well Mary,

and technically you could think about that she's a surrogate. You know what I'm saying? Like you're just giving people who like to argue a reason to argue with you. And now it's just become this fun discussion, probably not fun, but like it's dramatic. And I think you need to stop trying to convince them of something that you A, are already doing,

and B, you two are aligned with, and that's all that really matters when it comes to this decision. This is not, you and your husband didn't call up any of these people who are against it to get their green light, to get their approval. Like, you know, you two didn't sit down, and I'm glad you didn't, to say, well, what do you,

like, should we call up everyone? Should we call our parents, and should we call our brothers and sisters and our friends and see what they think before we decide to move forward with the decision? Of course you didn't. And so what matters most is that you two are aligned, and you're happy with your decision.

And I think you just need to, if it comes up with them again, I wouldn't bring up I would just say hey listen we've obviously talked about this we obviously are not aligned you know I we always appreciate your guys's feedback but like this is a decision we made as a couple we are happy with it and we don't need you to like it we don't even really need you to accept it or respect it but we're just no longer going to have these conversations with you. So respectfully, just don't, you know, if you, as long as you continue to disagree with it, we're just not interested in having this conversation

anymore. Definitely. And that's kind of where my husband left it with her, was he basically said, I just don't want to hear about it again. And so we haven't heard about it since. It's more just now that we're pregnant. Well, I'm pregnant, sorry. We're just like, how do we tell them? Because with my family, it's simple. My family has been very supportive. So it's like, they're going to be excited for me. But with them, it's like, you know, my husband jokingly was like, well, we should just let them find out because you're rocking a baby bump at some point. And I'm like, okay, but seriously, how do we go about? I mean, he's not necessarily wrong. How far along are you?

Oh, I'm only like six weeks right now. So normal, right? Like all you should, like, I want you to not think about this for one more second. I don't want this to take up any more of your energy. I don't want you to worry one dime more second about what anyone thinks about this. Because that's potential stress

that's not good for you or this baby. So I don't care how you tell them and I don't want you to care. You know he can say like hey we're pregnant you know also you know they don't agree with it you know whatever you're like I would let him do it so that you don't have to worry about it and whatever and I would it's his family trust your husband's lead when it comes to how to best handle his family but I don't think you need to worry about their response or how you should tell them you know they're not gonna agree with it so I don't know text them call them don't tell them like they're gonna have to deal with it regardless and I think the best thing you

can do is just not give a fuck about what they think they're're not, you know, like they're going to share their opinion. They'll throw their adult temper tantrums. They might give you the silent treatment. I don't know, you know, all the things that family members do, but they'll get over it, you know, because what they're not going to do is I'm banking on the fact that, you know, I don't know your family, but they're not going to disown you and refuse to speak to you again and cut you guys off. And the more you seek out their approval and opinion, the more they're gonna give it. The more you try to change their mind, the more

they think you're open to your mind being changed. And the sooner you just like act and show them that you're just not in, you just don't really care what they think or about their approval, the less likely they are to share it. Because like, no one wants to waste their breath. But like, when you give the idea that, you know, your mind might be changed, you know, they'll speak up. I never thought about it that way,

that trying to convince them makes them think that I'm convinceable. And if you think about it that way, that really makes sense. And you kind of sound like my therapist there too, because I talked to my therapist about this and in general, just an issue of me needing approval and needing approval from his, his family as well, especially, and just my struggles with that and everything. And she's always telling me to stop trying to convince people of what my perspective is and just be okay with people not agreeing with me.

And that's, yeah, I think you're right about that. It's hard to do, but it's a powerful thing. Do you watch Vanderpump? Yes, I do. Okay, have you watched the reunion part three? Yes, I just did today. Okay, right? Like Ariana, I don't know if you noticed,

but we talked about this earlier today when we recapped it, but like the reason why she looked so good, and I thought she was flawless with her answers, is because she set her ability to set a boundary so calmly as I think one of the most intimidating things that anyone can do. It's hard for most of us to even enforce a boundary, right? We're so worried about people pleasing. We're so worried about what people think that first of all we don't enforce our boundaries as often as we should, right? And then sometimes when we do enforce our boundaries what we want is for people to agree with the boundaries that we're setting. We want their approval, we want their permission, and we rarely get that because that's why would we have to set

a boundary in the first place if everyone was like, I'm bored with how we thought, right? And in reunion part three, Ariana, she had no problem saying to Sheena, you know, you make valid points, but at the end of the day, I'm just gonna do it differently because this is what I need to do for me. She didn't try to argue with Lala or Sheena.

She didn't tell, she didn't try to discredit anyone. You know what I'm saying? She didn't try to, she didn't put anyone down. She just simply said, this is what I need. This is what I'm comfortable with, comfortable with, you know, respectfully just agree to disagree, no problem, but this is what I need.

And it drives people nuts when people are able to calmly enforce their boundaries and do it with confidence. And it's such, I mean, I'm like, what did you think? I mean, Aura, she just looks so graceful and so like do it with confidence. And it's such, I mean, I'm like, what did you think? I mean, Aura, she just looks so graceful and so like in touch with herself and like so at peace, you know? And like, it's, I think people can really take a page out of Arianna's book of how she,

she didn't need any, she wasn't asking anyone there to agree with her. She validated everyone's feeling except for obviously Tom's about, hey, listen, like I understand how you all feel, but this is what I need for me because this is what happened to me. And I'm sorry if it doesn't align with everything you want. And I'm sorry if you feel like it's not fair or whatever, but this is what I'm doing. And I don't even really need you to be okay with it, you know? And when she was so chill about it. And I think that's very intimidating for people. And so you will always- It takes a lot of practice to learn to be that way too, because it's just such a default

setting for me, especially like, I just grew up in an environment where like my dad was an arguer. Like he would try to convince people of anything he disagreed on. And it was just, you know, and so it's kind of like a default setting that I'm working to try to get my way out of, because you're right, like watching her, I was so impressed with her. I was like, I wish I had that kind of self-control to just sit there and say, like, this is what it is, and I'm not going to sit here and try to convince you that I'm right in doing what I'm doing. I'm just going to do it.

Yeah. Yeah. Because like Ariana doesn't need any of those people. She doesn't need any of their approval. She is confident in her decision. She knows that this is what she needs for herself and she is willing to, as much as she wants support from her friends, she is willing not to receive it. And that takes guts and it takes a lot. It's why it's so difficult for most people to do. So yeah, use Ariana as inspiration for sure. Yes, I will definitely. But yeah, use Ariana's inspiration for sure. Yes, I will definitely. But yeah, it's a hard part. You just have to not,

again, referencing your dad. Like remember your dad likes to argue. It's fun. He does it as a hobby. I know the feeling. I'm, you know, And it drives me nuts too. So it's annoying that I do it because it drives me nuts when he does it. So. Sure. Well, we all like,

you clearly are confident in your decision, but just know that when the more you seek out people's approval, kind of in line with what I said earlier, it comes across as you not being as confident in your decision as you say you are. Because why else do you need anyone's approval? And so I think by showing these people that you don't and that you're confident in your decision and

You're letting him know out of a courtesy, you know, but it's you're not you're not waiting for a response. So Yeah, I would I would honestly text it like hey, we're pregnant I would let your husband say it if he needs it if he feels like he needs to communicate I would really just follow his lead but But if he were asking my advice, I'd probably be like, why don't you just text it and maybe add, it's like, we're fully aware of how you guys feel about this. We're not really interested in any feedback.

We're letting you know out of a courtesy. But as we mentioned before, unless you're interested in showing your support for something that is happening, we're just not interested in having this conversation. And right now our priority is the health of you and the baby, because that's what matters most to us right now.

And if they say anything negative, you both must have the strength not to respond. Absolutely. No, I agree. And I think too, at this point, it's almost like, how could they even have anything negative to say? The babies are pretty grueling. I promise you.

See, that's where you have to get that out of your head, though, you know, because they will. They will have something negative to say. I know, I know, they probably will, but I just can't understand it. But you don't have to understand it. That's the thing you need to work on. You don't need to understand it.

The only thing you need to understand is that people are often uncomfortable with things that they're not familiar with. And you have to understand that when people are uncomfortable with things they're not familiar with, they try to name it something else and put lipstick on a pig and justify their ignorance or uncomfortability with a topic is something that it's not, you know what I'm saying? And you just have to be comfortable

with understanding what's going on and let them work through it. And it's not your responsibility to change their mind. It's not, you know what I'm saying? It's not God's plan for you to convince them to be okay with something. Yeah. You know, you've got to show them

the only way you're going to convince these people is to go through with this pregnancy that you're already pregnant and do this very selfless thing of giving your best friend this beautiful gift of life and a child and having this very healthy and loving relationship with this child as you know call yourself an aunt or whatever it will be and just through your actions over the course of the next few years, showing, I mean, at some point, your mother-in-law is gonna meet this beautiful child.

And at some point, your mother-in-law is gonna see you interact with this child. And your mother-in-law is gonna eat her words the moment she falls in love with this child and sees this beautiful relationship that you have with your best friend and this child and you and sees your husband interact and your Your your step mom could you know, this child could call your mom also grandma You know what i'm saying? Like, you know our aunt or whatever and that's the moment

You won't even have to say anything because your your mother-in-law is going to look at this beautiful child And and fall in love. Yeah, absolutely to say anything because your mother-in-law is going to look at this beautiful child and fall in love. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, there will be no regrets, I think, for sure, by the time that the baby is born. And I hope that, you know, I hope that that's the case is, I mean, I feel that way. Like I'm so excited to be a part of this. And I felt like, and I know it shouldn't put a damper on it for me, but it felt like it

put a damper on something that was so exciting for me to be able to do this for my friend. And I'm just excited to see her be a mom. And so I am confident in the decision, you know, so I just need to stick to that and realize I know that what I'm doing is good. I know that what I'm doing is the right thing. I know that it's what's meant to be,

whatever you want to call it, you know, and leave it at that. Yeah, you're doing literally one of the most selfless things anyone could ever do for somebody. So, yeah. Oh, I appreciate that. You have to focus on that and all the positive things and you have to control your thoughts

and you have to police your need for approval from anyone else that isn't aligned with you, your husband, and your best friend. Because those are the only people that matter in this equation. Yeah, I agree. All right.

I don't want you wasting any more negative energy on these people. Okay, I'm gonna work on it. I'm gonna just keep practicing and do my best. Just keep watching episode, a reunion part three of Ariana. I mean, truly, gonna work on it. I'm gonna just keep practicing and, you know, do my best. Just keep watching episode, Reunion Part Three of Ariana. I mean, truly, it was so impressive. I thought she was so impressive.

She had an answer for everything. And the reason she was able to do that, because she didn't need their approval. She didn't need any of those people agreeing with her for her to feel confident in her decision. And when you watch that unfold, it's one of the most impressive things that you can see. Yeah. Absolutely.

It just comes down to being confident in your decision and knowing that you're doing the right thing for yourself, and nothing else really matters. I agree with that. Well, congratulations. Thank you. I appreciate it. Thank you so much for your advice. It's very, very helpful.

I'm a big fan of your show, your podcast podcast and so it was just an honor to be able to come on and talk to you and get your perspective. Well I appreciate you sharing the story it's obviously a very fascinating one and we please keep us updated on this pregnancy and how things go because you know we're getting more and more questions and calls regarding like family dynamics and you And these are tough situations because it's like family, you don't even have to like them, but they're your family. And we love them and it's a challenge and that can be a very difficult.

Friends, you stop liking them, it's like, yeah, fuck it. A family is a little different. And we have to figure out different ways to make it work and interact with people that we can often butt heads with and be on different sides of the political spectrum or religious beliefs, and that can become very contentious. And yet it's still family, it's still important, and we have to find common ground.

But I have learned, you know, it's one thing I've always, I've always been good at setting boundaries I've always been very good at not worrying about people think you know sometimes to a fault But I just know when it comes to me making very difficult decisions I've set a precedent with my family that like when I'm confident in my decision They're not gonna change my mind and they're not gonna make me feel bad about it You know what people don't do they don't They don't call me up and let me know what they thinking about something just to shame me.

You know what I'm saying? Or just to guilt me. Short of them being like, are really concerned, but like, yeah, they might give me their two cents, but they're not gonna try to guilt me into changing their mind. Because they know it's not gonna work. And I've set that precedent with them.

So this is an opportunity for you, for all the other situations with your family that they might not agree with, if they know they can't get through to you and that you're just not interested in hearing it, but yet you can still, and then the trick is you have to do this, and when you do interact with them,

like Ariana, again, I was kind of in awe of Ariana, that episode of how just like, she was so good at acknowledging everything that Sheena said, you could tell she cared about Sheena and even Lala, but she still wasn't gonna budge. And so it's very important for you, no matter what your mother-in-law says or does or your other family members to still lead with love

and to still acknowledge her feelings and not show her that you need that validation. Just be like, hey, I understand how you feel and I totally get it. I understand. It's like a lot of your concerns are valid but we just don't see eye to eye and that's okay and I love you

but this is where we're at and you're just calm as fuck. And when you show her that, she'll just realize that there's just nowhere to go. Absolutely, and you're right. It's an opportunity for me to practice that muscle of setting that precedence that people know that they're not going to change my mind, that I'm not somebody who wavers on their decisions, but also of not caring what people think. You're absolutely right that it is hard.

It's different with family than it is with friends because with friends you can cut them out No problem because if you don't if you have an issue where you don't get along with them or you have serious, you know differences You know, you don't want them in your life. But with family, it's like you love them unconditionally You love them even when you have foundational differences So you still want them in your life, but you're butting heads in that way And so it's just learning that we could still be in each other's lives and respect each other, but you don't have to approve of all my decisions. Yeah. All right. Well, thank you again for the call. Please keep us posted and congratulations. Thank you so much.

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I'm 34 years old. I'm a single mom and it's been about nine years since I've called someone my boyfriend. Okay. It's been nine years since you called someone your boyfriend. Have you been completely off the dating market or you've been dating? You know, what's, have you been like, have you had multiple situationships? What does your dating life look like? Yeah, looking back I can say that a lot of them

were definitely situationships. I've dated a ton of men. I would say there have been a handful of very respectable men that I was very serious about and what felt like a mutual feeling as well with them, but I just haven't found someone to establish an exclusive relationship with. It's just been kind of a defeating feeling.

I'm a single mom and over the last, like I would say, year and a half, I took a break to kind of focus on my son and myself after he was diagnosed with ADHD. I think it was just time to kind of work on myself and spend that time trying to establish what my son's needs were and then maybe jump back into the dating pool. So I would say back in the fall of last year, I finally put myself back out there and it's just been tough. I think dating in general nowadays is just very difficult with or without a child. Yeah, I would agree with that, yeah. Which honestly, like in your shoes,

I think is a great thing for you to realize. I think no matter what our situation is, when things aren't going our way, it's very easy for us to Make a bad situation worse by thinking you know thing you know we have the short end of the stick You know it's like in your case Obviously you know I'm a single mom It's you know it's harder on me because I'm a single mom or no one's gonna want to do anything

I'm a single mom or whatever it is. You date me because I'm a single mom or whatever. These kind of self-limiting beliefs and things like that. And listen, I have no doubt being a single mom is one of the most difficult things, being a single parent in general. And dating, obviously there's gonna be a lot of men out there who, whether they admit it or not, are gonna be less interested in dating a single mom.

That is true, right? But you can say that about anything in any category, right? Like, especially with men. Men tend to be more, I think, more superficial, but like, there's a lot of men who won't date women for a certain look they have, or a certain personality trait, or a political belief. I mean, most nowadays, you know,

regardless of what side of the aisle you're on politically, most people are like, I would never date the other side. Right? So they're immediately cutting out half of the population to who a potential partner might be, you know? Which has nothing to do with their compatibility or like interest or how, you know, how they treat the opposite sex or like interest or how you know how they treat

the opposite sex or the same sex you know or whatever just how people treat their partners you know it's like they would rather consider someone who has the same political beliefs as them despite you know their reputation of how they treat you know the men and women of their lives rather than someone who you know is on the other side but totally respectful and totally considerate and yada, yada, yada, right? And so, sure, there are gonna be men who like, maybe just completely take you off their dating board, so to speak.

But I guess my point is, is that, when I was a single guy, I'm sure there were a lot of people, a lot of women who wouldn't date me because I was on The Bachelor. Sure, there's a lot of women wouldn't date me because I was on The Bachelor. Sure, there's a lot of women who would date me because I was on The Bachelor, but maybe a lot of women that I was interested in would immediately judge me for what they saw in television

or things like that. So we can always make a bad situation worse by looking at the negative and focusing on the negative. So I'm just, it was a very long-winded way of saying that I'm glad that you recognize that dating is hard for everybody and to not make your situation worse by doubting yourself, you know, and saying that, you know, making yourself feel less worthy because of,

and I'm guessing one of the best things that's ever happened to you is your child coming into this world. You know. Of course. Of course. That all being said, you have been, you know, you haven't had a boyfriend in nine years. Yeah.

And without knowing anything about you, I'm gonna guess that's a you problem. And then not because it's, I don't think it's because all the men are shitty, and all the men you've ever dated, you know, like, you've, whatever choices you're making, you know, have led you to be single.

And maybe a lot of those choices were good choices and healthy choices, you know, maybe you just said no to a lot of bad men. But my question to you is, it's not, and I'm guessing you have a desire to be in a relationship. So what do you think you're doing? I don't want to say wrong, but what choices do you think you've made that have stopped you from finding the thing that you're looking for?

Yeah. I mean, I think you said it best. Yeah, I mean, I think you said it best. I get a lot of, there aren't a lot of people that are willing to admit and say, hey, I'm not ready for the kid, not ready to add that into the mix. It's more like, oh, you're perfect or like, oh, you're such a great person. I'm just not ready to commit. I think I've dealt with a lot of situations where I've heard even from the get-go, hey, I'm not quite sure what I'm looking for

right now. I'm not sure if I'm ready to settle down yet, but- And how many of those men have you entertained? I would say three of them, and that's been over the course of nine years. So in the grand scheme of things, not as many of them, but I think there's certainly different reasons for each of them. I think just as a general advice to anyone listening, man or woman, if someone you are dating or you're meeting on the apps,

and if they say anything to the effect of, I'm not sure what I'm looking for, yeah, move on immediately. Yeah. and if they say anything to the effect of, I'm not sure what I'm looking for, move on immediately. Yeah. Cause what's that saying, if someone tells you who they are, believe them. Very common thing. Yeah, exactly.

But they're not lying when they say that. I mean, there might be lies in there, they're hedging their bat and I think everyone, we actually, I said this earlier today, that no men are ready, you know? And a lot of men have jumped into relationships a week after telling another woman they know what they wanted or they weren't ready.

But people don't get into relationships because they think they're ready. But if someone says they're not ready, that is, it is such a red flag in terms of you know where they're at in their life and if nothing else that is just a signal to you that you know you are gonna have to be doing a lot of their work you know that they need to do for themselves and and it's such a it's such a catch-22 maybe catch-22 is the wrong word but but our egos see that as a challenge.

Our egos see that as an opportunity to change someone's mind. Our egos see that as an opportunity to feel special. Because, oh, he wasn't ready, but when he met me, he was, type of thing. But it's just so important for us to just let those people move on and to say, well, you can have a, especially if you're on the apps, you could just say, well, if that ever

changes, look me up. But I'm not, I just don't mess with people who are so willing and easy to say that they don't know what they want or they're not ready. It's such a project. And so if nothing else, there's, you know, we live in a time where dating, the biggest challenge of dating is this abundance of options and this abundance of choice

and this perception of options. And so it makes, dating is easier when we start limiting, like taking away all the bad options and stop tricking ourselves into thinking, you know, maybe they could be a good, you know, and solicit, maybe they could be a good option, you know, it's like, Oh, well, he's so good looking or, you know, this or that, or like, whether you let your attractor their job, your trusty to look and they're like, well, I don't know if I'm ready yet. You know, that is not a reason to ignore what they say. Yeah, definitely. And it probably, to enforce that rule or that boundary,

if you wanna call it that, well, only in the short term, it might make it feel like it's making your situation harder. But you have to remember, especially if you're on the apps, the apps can be very great. They certainly can introduce you to other singles. But it is also an ego nightmare and a validation trick, because every single person that you shows up

on your screen that you don't match with, it makes you feel like there aren't good ones out there. It gives you this perception of you'll never find anyone because you just spent, you just went through like a hundred men that you either weren't interested in, weren't attracted to, and the five that you were like gave fuck boy signals, you know? And so you go through a whole day of this,

well that was fuck man, I'll never find it, you know? And a lot of it is just getting out of your head about these kind of self-limiting beliefs and not let this access you have to all these single men that aren't your person, that aren't right for you, make you feel like it's harder than it is. Does that make sense? I know I rambled.

Yeah, no, it does. I mean, I like to believe I'm pretty self-aware. So I, I feel like I have spent equally. I've dated a lot of guys from apps, but more so met them naturally and have established more of a natural connection in that way. And most of the guys that I've dated off of apps, I would have never swiped right on the dating app. Personalities always, I think, what attracts me to somebody first and foremost. Of course, good looks is a big part of that and should be taken like, it's a part of what you're attracted to and builds chemistry.

It's just, yeah, it's difficult either way. And I'm typically pretty hard on myself. So every time that something has ended, I can't tell you how many hours I've spent on the phone, talking to family and friends, just dissecting what I could have done better or what I did wrong. And most of the time I have friends and family, and maybe they're just good friends to some extent. I was trying to cheer me on and making me feel like I'm not the problem.

Most of the time they've always reassured me that I'm not the problem, but I am not naive to believe that it's been nine years So I got to believe that there's partially it's a me problem and not necessarily an options problem It's fun. Well, it I'm almost it's certainly you a you problem, but I think it's Not the you problem that you think it is and when I say it's a you problem because I look at Yeah, I look at you and I think that's why I'm struggling. I look at you and you're an attractive person. How old are you again? 34?

34. So you're still young, you kind of have a lot of options. I know that if you desperately wanted a boyfriend, you could have one in a week. But you don't wanna just have anybody, right? Yes, that's correct. I don't wanna just settle for whatever comes along. And so, and I'm sure,

and it sounds like you've been rejected a couple times. Yeah. Yeah, so, but I guess what I'm saying, when I say it's a you problem, is that clearly you not having a boyfriend for nine years has to do with choices you're making. And so, you know, but I don't think it's a you problem that for the, you know, whoever the don't think it's a you problem that for the, for the, you know,

whoever the men are that you have rejected you, that you necessarily did something wrong in that relationship that you could have done differently, where you still would have felt like you were making you that you were still being who you are being so still being true to yourself. So being the person you want to be the mom you you wanna be, you know what I'm saying? Like, so I don't know, without knowing anything about these relationships, that you getting rejected doesn't mean

you did anything wrong. It just means someone- Wasn't the right person? Yeah, they chose not to wanna invest in a life with you anymore, which can be very difficult and sad and hurtful. But that doesn't mean you're doing something wrong. You not having a boyfriend over nine years and just knowing that clearly if you really wanted one, you could have one because I'm sure there's a you know there's literally probably hundreds of thousands of men who would you know they would I'd be like oh what's your perfect and they if I it was like hey here's this person what do you think

they've been oh my god I would do anything to be with her type of thing you know what I'm saying like most of which of those men you wouldn't want to be with you know sure so is that making sense? It's making sense. I don't know if I am like fully in agreement with some of it, but I, it is making sense. What specific part? Yeah, I think I, I agree that, well, I'm still trying to identify like, yes, I agree that I didn't, I don't think that I necessarily have done something wrong in those moments in those situationships. If that's what we want to call them.

But then, like, what could I have been doing better? Like, what do you mean by better? Because, you know, you say situationship, you know, I think it's foolish. I think it's very foolish for anyone I think it's foolish, I think it's very foolish for anyone to openly admit and be okay with them being in a situationship. So if you had been and accepted your situationship, then right there I would have been like mistaken. I mean, they certainly weren't situationships that I accepted.

There were, I have been with men that have been very respectable, aware of circumstances as a single mom and taken our relationship seriously. It's just that when it comes time to that conversation, that serious conversation, or trying to take the next steps, there's that hesitation on their end.

Like, I just don't know. Like, I really like you. And I think that's why I'm stuck. just, I don't know. Like, I really like you and I think that's why I'm stuck. Like, I don't know where to go from here because I really like you and you're a really good person. I've got nothing bad to say about you. I'm like, okay, well then you clearly don't feel like. Yeah, what are the ages of these men that you're dating? I've dated a 40 year old before, a 40, yeah.

40 year old before. I would say like thirties. I don't typically date anybody that's younger than me because I want to be with somebody that is responsible and takes a kid seriously. Somebody that's like well established, they know what they're looking for in life, they are settled down into life,

they're confident in who they are, and they're open to being a step-parent. Yeah, when you're talking about being rejected, you're clearly remembering some specific incidences. Yeah. How many of these situations or men are you remembering that are making you feel like you're doing something wrong? Yeah.

Two specifically. Okay, and how many years apart did you date them? Two years apart. Okay, and how recent were those guys? The first one was, well, four years ago. And then the second one was two years ago. And I think that's the one that it just, it stains. And then what about your,

what's your dating life look like in between? Sorry. I would say dating app options. Trying to put myself back out there, meet people, even if it makes me feel uncomfortable, go on dates with people that have been persistent and respectful or have had, you know, they've shown signs that they're clearly interested and have said that they are looking

for a serious long-term relationship. Okay. But then it gets to the, I would say, first or second date and then the compatibility is just not quite there. Okay, yeah. So forgetting about these two men specifically that clearly made you feel something and feel rejected. Yeah.

Is it safe to say that when it comes, if you were to lump on all your dates you've ever been on or including all interactions on dating apps, just like basically all dating interactions over the course of the past nine years, is it safe to say that whether you actually had a conversation with this person and actually had to be like, I don't like you, but like you've not been interested in the,

and like thinking of every dating interaction you've ever had, including just swiping on the apps. Okay. That you have been, it's been you not interested in them more than you feel like you've been rejected by people? No. Over the last year and a half, yes. Or sorry, over the last like six months, yes. Generally speaking. Over the last six months, since what? I feel like it's pretty, I feel like it's pretty like 50-50. Like, so even when you think you're getting rejected as much as you're rejecting people? Yes. Even the even on the app like when you're for all the people you're swiping on you're not getting swiped back? Yeah I think it's pretty 50-50. Okay even still 50-50 kind of like I got average right? I mean that's kind of normal you know I don't know how your ego feels about it, but 50-50. I'm just saying, so think about, I guess it's just more, I'm just trying to put things

into perspective because clearly the narrative you have in your head is, I haven't had a boyfriend in nine years. And that narrative is this more like, I can't find a boyfriend. And embedded in that statement is like this feeling of inadequacy. Am I ever going to find anyone? Is anyone going to accept me or love me? What am I doing wrong? Right. Yes. And these kind of very negative feelings that aren't, they're just not going to get you anywhere. No, that's correct. And I just want you to try not to nowhere. No, that's correct. And I just want you to try not to beat yourself up emotionally. In my own way.

Yeah. To feel rejected. The two guys, that's just unfortunately a part of life and love and dating. Of course. But for all the people you don't know, never really got to know, never really built anything with, and even if you quote unquote felt rejected by them, you don't even know if you would have ended up liking them. And most of the men you probably wouldn't have.

And then thinking about the guys that you rejected, you know, like a lot, probably hundreds, you know? And then that would have been probably got, a lot of those men would have, they would have just been like, yeah, if you want to date me, I will date you. Without even knowing you, they might have said yes.

And so, but we don't look at it that way, I guess is what I'm saying. As humans, we focus on the negatives, the negative, we don't, if half our comments were negatives, we would say to ourselves, everyone hates me, like in social media. We wouldn't say, well, half the comments were negatives, we would say to ourselves, everyone hates me, like in social media. We wouldn't say, well, you know, half the people love me.

It would feel like everyone hates us. And I think it's just, I think you got to try to not beat yourself up when it comes to dating and relationships. Another thing I'd want you to remember is if you have to get on the phone with anyone or rack your brain and try to figure out what you're doing wrong, then maybe you're just not doing anything wrong. You think so? No, I just, it's been nine years. It's hard to not feel like. We can always do things differently, but if you have to search for something, you know what I'm saying? If you have to like, hey, let's to search for something, you know what I'm saying? If you have to like, hey, let's get on the phone

and figure out what I'm doing wrong. Yeah, yeah. Which I've done, I've literally done that. I've literally gotten, like I've literally been broken up with and been like, I'll just figure out, I'll just make up something I did wrong, cause then I can fix it. You know, it feels helpless when we don't have an answer

for being rejected. Yes, exactly. It's a defeating feeling. Yes. It's like, okay, well. You make a bad situation worse when you get on the phone with your friends and try to figure out something

and come up with something that you can name and identify just so that you can try to fix something that isn't broken so that this person in theory can then accept you. Yeah, and I will say, like, I feel like those moments where I've tried to dissect and maybe fix what's not broken and it's changed me and I'm like, okay, why did I do that? Yeah. That next person could have liked those qualities

just as much, but it's so hard to not take that personal when you've been, I guess, rejected quite a few times. So it's just hard to, like, where do I go from here kind of thing? Like, where? Maybe, if you're made of nothing else, if you're just, if this is about like, maybe just go on dates with men you clearly are interested in and... And... I've done that too. I just, I, my son is nine. He, he's with me pretty full time. Sorry. That's okay.

I just really want to find someone that kind of equally contributes to our relationship and is an added value and not necessarily just like someone that's just there to hang out and play with my son or be a temporary fix. I think because I've spent so much time over the last few years trying to identify what, who I wanna be with and what I want that to look like, or just trying to narrow down what I don't want in our life, that it's just, I don't know.

I've come to kind of a confusing crossroads with dating. At the same token, having spent a year and a half off intentionally taking time away from dating, I feel like I've come to really enjoy it. I love my life. I love my life with my son. I feel confident in who I am as a woman. I'm terrified now at the same time to add somebody to that. So yeah, maybe it is a sense of fear that's holding me back.

I don't know. I think it's so hard to tell with dating, like just the types of people that have dated. Yeah, I wish I had better answers for you because the reality is the landscape's getting more and more difficult. And as a society, I don't think we're doing anything meaningful to make it easier on people to find love Yeah, and I'm glad that you feel we are we as society are you know?

we're all suffering from this main character epidemic of Of only seeing the world through our own needs and things like that. And I think it's affecting everything and then social media and yada, yada, yada, yada, yada. I think you, and this is, I don't know how awful this is going to be and I don't know if it's going to be what you want to hear, but I think the only thing meaningful I can say to you that would be actually actionable and helpful for to you is I think you on Forge you I think what you just really have to do is try to adjust your perspective

You know because we can sit, you know and acknowledge how difficult Dating can be but that doesn't mean you should give up on love, you know, yes I'm trying Not to and I know it can be difficult. I don't know You know what your dreams like you have a child. I don't know if you want more children You know, and I understand well, I can't relate but I understand that you know, the biological clock is a thing for women Yes, they have to yes, it's definitely top of mind. Deal with. But I don't want to overstep here or tell you how to think and feel but

your life for I think everyone it just is much better when you start focusing on what you do have and not what you don't have. And trying to focus on gratitude rather than, and abundance rather than, again, what you don't have. And I say that because like you, and again, I know I can't relate, but I'm just saying that I would say this to anyone, and I really believe it. And I think these are feelings that I would say this to anyone and I really believe it and I think these are feelings that I had to face and address for me to find happiness and peace and and I really struggled with my dating life and and and love life in my 20s and

My 20s ended when I me being very single and then I spent the next decade in my 30s being incredibly single. You know, but I just, I got better at not thinking about what I don't have and sort of preaching what I do have. And so, you know, there's a, not to compare, but like, there are a lot of women your age with the same fears and the same struggles about love and dating. in the same struggles about love and dating and their biological clock, but they don't have,

and women who also wanna be mothers, but don't have a loving, wonderful child that you do have. And while even though your nine-year-old can complicate your dating life, no matter what happens from here and the rest of your life, you have that child, you have that beautiful gift. And so allow that to take the pressure off of, you know, listen, I do, again, if you do want another child someday with the right person, you know, and I'm confident there's

a good chance you'll have that opportunity, But no matter what, just telling yourself, what I do, I do have that child. And a lot of people aren't in the position that I have. And I'm just gonna be grateful for that and focus on that. And I strongly believe when you change your perspective and energy on these situations and you start going about almost obsessively thinking about what you do have in your life

and really practice gratitude, especially in those moments where you feel down. And instead of calling up your friends and family and trying to figure out what you're doing wrong and come up with something so that you can name it, I think that energy is far best served focusing on the gratitude and the things that you have in your life.

And I really do think that's the one thing you can control. And I don't know what's gonna happen for you in your dating life in the next several years. And I don't know how, you know, I don't know about growing your family or what that looks like, but I'm confident in saying that when the right person enters into your life,

whether that's next week or when you're 44, you'll be so happy that you found them when you found them. And I know that's not the same because obviously it wasn't until I was 40 until I found Natalie and if you would have told me at 34 or 28 that I had to wait until I was 40. And I know it's not the same coming as from a man's point of view in saying that to women

because that's different, I understand that. But nevertheless, thank God for science. Thank God for the ability to grow a family. There are options out there. There's a, you know what I'm saying? It's just like obsessively focusing on what you don't have. It just makes a bad situation worse. And you and I can sit here and I can sit like,

well, let's talk about your past relationship and go through the conversations and we can try to dissect. And I could be like, well, you know what? You could have said that differently. I'm sure we could do that exercise. Is that really gonna accomplish anything? You know? Probably not. You know? And so I really just think in your situation the worst thing you can do and like you know try not to be so black and white with your decisions. Like taking a year and a half off of dating's a long time. And then the flip side, when you get back into dating, I don't think you should be going on,

you know, six dates in three weeks. You know, it could be like, you can take a break from dating, but if the right person comes along, say yes to the date. You know, when you get it in the trick about dating for anyone, when you get excited about someone, that's when you need to the date. When you get, and then the trick about dating for anyone, when you get excited about someone, that's when you need to slow down. But it's difficult because it's so hard to meet people we get excited about, that when we get excited about them,

we wanna grab a hold and squeeze it, and we are immediately afraid of losing the things that we got excited about because getting excited in itself is so rare, then we have a habit of pushing those people away or giving those people a false sense of neediness or we're not showing them that we are these desirable, busy, don't have time for bullshit people because we get so fucking caught up in our excitement

for the few people that like we misrepresent ourselves. And getting better- I feel like that often happens to me. I think that's maybe a part of my problem. I think I often, well, I shouldn't say often, but I think in the past I have maybe come off more interested than I am, or more desperate than I would have wanted to,

than I actually am. So what is, when you meet a guy that you're interested in, at what point do you usually communicate your expectations? And what are those expectations that you will communicate? Typically from the get go. And what does that sound like? I've always been pretty honest and transparent if it's not on a dating app

and it's just meeting them naturally in public and they ask me out. Typically, I'm straightforward. Hey, I'm a single mom. This is what I'm looking for. I don't want to rush into anything, but I'm definitely looking for a long-term relationship. I do have a son. I don't expect you to jump into being a role model or a stepdad anytime soon.

And that will come in due time when it is necessary to introduce one another. But, and then, I don't know, I just try to be myself and share, try to get to know one another before we're getting into maybe like deeper conversations. But I'm definitely transparent from the get-go. Okay. I think it'd be good practice for you to

to kind of tighten up and almost rehearse this conversation. For one, I guess, so when it comes to dating apps and bios, less is more. I think it's great that upfront, you're just like, hey, single mom here. You're gonna filter out a lot of not options.

Not all of them, but, so I think that's great that you just named that right away. I don't think you need to say anything else. Single mom looking for a serious relationship. In terms of what you are looking for, I think these are the only two things dating app-wise that you need to put up there upfront. Again, it's not gonna filter out everyone but it'll filter out plenty. Right? I don't think you need to get into whole like, you know,

if you're not, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, just like keep it real brief just to filter it out. And then if you end up meeting any of these guys, I think you need to, my guess is that when you, and this is a guess, but when you are communicating your expectations with any of these men that you get, and when I say these men, men that you are, you've had a good first date with or that you're a little bit excited or interested in, as far as men that you're on a couple dates with that you're just like, I don't really know.

I don't think I hope that you're not explaining and communicating your expectations more with them. With people that I'm questioning? Yeah, like in early dates, like I hope you're all your energy is going into like, who are you? Do I like you? Am I interested in you? You know? Yes. But if you do come across someone that you're like, I are you? Do I like you? Am I interested in you? You know? Yes. But if you do come across someone that you're like, I kinda like this guy, I'm kinda excited, yada yada,

then my guess is when you start communicating your expectations, my guess is, and sometimes if I were listened back in this, that you are, it sounds like you're almost explaining yourself. Okay. Rather than, you know what I'm saying, like explaining why you want something

or why you need this or by saying like, well, I don't know, you know. And I love it for you to just be real brief. And just more like, I guess, specifically around guys that you get excited about. And that is just like saying the thing where it's just like, it's okay to admit that like, I've had a really good time with you you know and so it's somewhere it's it's that balance of like like listen so I

I've always had a good time with you I'm really excited I'm really interested in getting to know you more but like I don't have a ton of time and things like that and I think when you are, I'm not making sense here, sorry. No, it's okay. I'm trying to like articulate a thought. But I want you to not feel like you're, I think my guess is when we like people,

I think what I'm trying to say is we, without even realize it, we give it off an energy of needing their validation and wanting their approval and hoping that they like us. I want you to try to recognize that. The easiest way to recognize that is to admit it to yourself, hey, I'm excited about this person, but I also know very little about them. It is okay to be excited about someone and still admit to myself that I know almost nothing about them and it's more likely that the more I learn, the less I will like.

And so there's no reason for me to hype myself up. And then always give the perception of when you're talking to these men, which is like, listen, I'm interested. I like you, but like, I don't really know you, you know? And I'm a busy person, I'm a single mom. And like, you know, I just don't have a lot of time for, you know, and without sounding jaded, you're just more like, allow men, let men,

let, you gotta get better at letting the men you're excited about chase you. I think that's what I'm trying to say. And I think we as humans are terrible at that. Yeah, I think I really suck at that. Yeah. I don't think I've been good at letting it just happen. Yes.

And so if there's anything for you to change other than your general POV on dating and your own self-worth, it is identifying the men that you get excited about and then slowing down and still having your friends hype you up and hype yourself up and reminding yourself that no matter how this plays out, this doesn't speak to my self-worth. And I do not need this person to validate me because again, I know very little about them and I need for the sake of myself and my son,

I need to get to, I need to learn about them. And that takes time. And I think you need to be open to learning about these men and be open to finding out something you don't like because that's definitely possible rather than focusing on making sure that they don't, the more they learn about you, that they might reject you.

Yeah, I think you're right. And if you can slow down, I think it, you know, it'll just make you seem like more of a catch. You know, we all want what we don't have. Like I was literally talking to someone earlier today and we were just like, no one, everyone pursues someone that they perceive is someone they are surprised they can get, including you. You know, we never like go out with someone who is like, you know, I don't know, I think I could do better. We

rarely, we rarely, we rarely give those people a chance. Yeah, that's true. So we just have to recognize that when we get excited about someone, that we are excited about an idea of someone, not actually who they are. So are you suggesting though, the people that I'm not as excited about, not necessarily pursuing, like, I think I've also struggled with, okay, do I continue to pursue them and get to know them a little bit better and continue to take that slow? Maybe that changes.

Maybe I do end up feeling the chemistry or- Yeah, I think that comes down to, I think before you do that, listen, I'm always forgiving, you know, you said earlier that there's a lot of guys I've gone out with and met in person that I wouldn't have gone on on dating apps and been pleasantly surprised. So I think the proofs of the pudding there.

But I think dating in general can be very exhausting and draining. And so we only have so much energy and bandwidth. So I think we have to be careful about who we go on dates with. That being said, I think dating is, it requires practice, just like working out. And I think sometimes we should go on dates with people that, quote unquote, don't excite us because we might be pleasantly surprised. But I think before you do that,

you have to adjust your perspective on dating in general. And you have to be, you know, right now, I can hear it in your voice, you're getting emotional by just, you know, right now, I can hear it in your voice, you're getting emotional by just, you know, you just want someone. And which is a totally understandable feeling. But I think you have to be okay with the idea that that might not happen for you

for another couple years. And be okay with that. And you can still be sad, you can still say I want this for myself, and still be okay with it not happening when you want it. Because when you get to that point of accepting just where you're at, and that life is gonna happen the way it's gonna happen, because right now you're so invested in the outcome of dating.

And every day you go on is like, how's this gonna go? And how is this gonna make me feel about myself and my self-worth and my ability to find love? And you just can't live and die by every date you have. It's exhausting. And so I want you to try to get better at changing your perspective of, again, that's where the gratitude comes in,

of focusing on what you do have in your life and what you have to be grateful for and obsessively reminding yourself of that because right now you're obsessively reminding yourself of what you don't have and you're getting on the phone with your friends and kind of feeling sorry for yourself and ruminating these negative thoughts.

And I want you to get better at ruminating the positive things in your life, of which it sounds like you have a few things to be grateful for. And then you will get, you'll be more settled in where you're at in your life. And you will just, your energy will give off this abundance of wealth and not neediness.

And it will attract people, not just men, people, of like here's this self-confident single mom in her 30s who's crushing life, she doesn't have a care in the world, she's confident in who she is. That person is gonna attract people. You know what I'm saying? And that person is gonna find what they're looking for, but it just comes from like your own internal,

like how you perceive the world around you. Yeah. I feel like I've been in that place before where I've definitely spent time focusing on myself and being grateful for the things that I have. And I think I tend to lose that when I meet someone that I'm excited about and then kind of revert back

to old habits of maybe not taking myself as seriously or not like being super consistent with going to the gym or just doing the small things and sticking to a routine that I know that works for me and that continues to build my own self-confidence. So yeah, that's a good for you to recognize. So like, it's like this thing, when you meet these guys you get excited about,

you stop doing all the things that have been like, making you happy and successful, you know, and you're, you're putting way too much energy and effort in these men, you don't know, you know, and you're putting way too much, you're investing way too much in the outcome of your dating life. And I say this all from like personal experience of doing the exact same thing that I'm saying that you've done, you know? And focusing too much on finding someone

and putting way too much value on what that meant about my own self-worth and identity. And when I cooled off on that and started just, you know, okay, I guess I'm where I'm at in my life, you know? I just was happier. And you being happier with where you're at will just make you more attractive to people. Yeah.

Yeah. I guess it's just like, so where do I, then where do I go from here? It's just a matter, you even said like a year and a half taking a break from dating is a long fucking time continuing to just put myself out there or Yeah, I think that starts. I think it starts with you sense of gratitude, I honestly think it starts with you getting getting better at at not ruminating negative thoughts and catching yourself.

Stop talking about that you've never had a boyfriend for nine years. Yeah. I mean, I haven't admitted that out loud really to anyone other than my mom. How many times have you admitted that to yourself though? But you talk to yourself more than you talk to anyone else. Yeah, and I think we often don't recognize that. Many times. So that's where it starts, you know. So when you got to catch yourself, you know, and that rabbit hole of thoughts of making you feel

less than you got to catch yourself and say, what am I doing? Like, you know, I'm not, I am not, I haven't been single for nine years just because I can't find anyone. I've made choices, I've rejected a lot of people, there's a lot of people I don't want. And even the men that rejected me, if I really think about it, there's a lot of things I put up with

that I shouldn't have just to seek their approval. Either way, this is where I'm at. But what I do have in my life, I have this, I have that, blah, blah, blah, I'm very grateful for this. I have this that I know a lot of people would really want, and like that list is long. And I think you just have to get good at catching yourself and then replacing those thoughts with thoughts of gratitude. And I honestly think if you can practice that, your life will drastically change. Okay.

You know, and then when you feel like that you're getting better at that, just open up the doors of dating and then check in with yourself. You get done with a date, ask yourself how it felt. Ask yourself, am I changing my behavior for this guy? That's a red flag for yourself. I'm excited about this guy. All right, well, that just means I'm excited.

Honestly, that just means my ego is triggered. That just means that I know that me being excited knows that I am susceptible to seeking the validation of a stranger. That's what excitement and dating honestly means. You know, going on our first couple of dates, you get excited. And you say that,

I'm susceptible to like needing this stranger's validation, but I'm not gonna run away from it. I'm just gonna acknowledge it that I'm excited, but I need to slow down, you know? And you can communicate that like, listen, I really enjoy getting to know you, but like, I, you know, but I'm a slow burn man. You know, I'm a very busy person. I'm a mom. I'm excited enjoy getting to know you, but I'm a slow burn man. I'm a very busy person, I'm a mom,

I'm excited to get to know you, but we'll just see how things go and just kind of very act, give the perception that you don't need them in your life. Because I think we have this habit of like, so when am I gonna see you again? What's next? Where are you really serious?

You start checking in, you start making sure that you're not wasting your time. I don't wanna waste my time with you. And you give off all these vibes of neediness. But rather change it to, I'm gonna slow down, I don't know you, and we'll see where this goes. And then let them proceed. And then remind yourself that you do not know these men.

And the only thing you're excited about are a handful of superficial things. Yeah, that's so true. That have nothing to do with your compatibility. Yeah. And it's just, it's like a, that's something you just have to practice. And that, and I'm remind you that you will always have to work on this. You will never master it.

Okay. Okay. Thank you for saying that. That's so true. I think I've gotten much better out of, since I've gotten back into dating over the last few months, but maybe I'm going too slow too, because there's definitely been two dates that have gone on, two guys that I was seeing that felt like I wasn't available enough. I'm a mom and I've explained in both scenarios that I don't always have the ability to hang out during the weeknights. I have sports and other things I have going on. So I guess maybe to your point too is just finding that balance and that sweet spot between the two of them. But I mean, listen, the right guy's going to be your time is of the essence, right? But I also know yes and no. And I get it. I understand. But

I do think you have more time than you realize. And I understand the biological clock. And I'm not trying to discount that. But like, I think you stressing yourself out and you constantly acting internally like you have to find it tomorrow isn't helping you out. It's just not. No, it's not. Yeah. You know, and I don't know when you're going to meet this person. Yeah. And I don't know when you're going to meet this person. I know we're going to find love and I know when you're, but at the same time too, recognize that like, I don't know your financial situation, but like, you mean, a lot of that can on Vanderpump has proven that if you really want to know you know like there are ways to grow your family you have options you know what I'm

saying and like it might yeah life's not safe I would say probably like my biological clock is definitely you know on the forefront and I think about it but it's not I don't feel as much pressure because I have a son. I already have a child. Um, so that I know that if I weren't able to have more kids, I'm okay with that. I don't feel like I need to have another kid. I would love to have one, but it's not. And I can say with personal experience that if it, if, if you don't find this person until you let's say for another six years, you just, you won't care. Yeah.

I mean it. You'll just be happy that when you found them, I promise you, I can't speak about the biological clock stuff, you know, but I can't, you know, that aside, just the more you can just be willing to wait for the right person, the person, the better chance you have allowing that person into your life. And the better chance that you will have

that when that person shows up in your life, that you will be ready to receive them and you'll have the right mindset. If you can just accept that it will happen when it happens in between now and then, all you can do is be grateful for what you do have and focus on helping people. It's just like every time I get done on myself,

the way that gets me out of it is just, how can I focus on helping others? And that's a great way of getting you out of your own bullshit and your own self pity is to focus on how you can help people around you. You know, just you have less time to worry about your problems when you're busy. And I know as a single mom, you're obviously already very busy, but like you are clearly spending a lot of your energy.

I'm still thinking about it. And I think we, I think we are, if we could somehow quantify the energy that we use to ruminate about problems we have no control over, we'd be blown away about the energy we are wasting on things that would make us more productive and happier. Yeah. And we just discount them because it's just like, we don't really pay attention to us being in our thoughts.

That's true. And I think my other, the other, um, sense of pressure that I'm feeling is I have, most of my friends are in relationships, almost all of them, except for, yeah. So there we go to weddings, everybody is in a relationship. Everybody has a date. Um, people are getting married. Like all my friends are getting married, having kids. Although I have another kid, it's still that pressure

to have what they have or just... I get it. I'm around other couples. I get it, but you just... Comparison is the thief of joy, you know? That's all I can say. And you're just gonna have to get good at not comparing. And when you get invited to a wedding,

you have to go and have the right mindset and be grateful that you get to celebrate your friend's love and you got to be grateful that's where that gratitude, grateful you're invited. And you're gonna focus on, you're not gonna go and wondering what guys are gonna be there. And if you're gonna meet someone,

you're just gonna go and celebrate. That what a wedding is for it's just to celebrate this love of this couple it's not about you you know it's not about your friends half your friends who are in a relationship now will be divorced in five years statistically this is facts so again that's where the gratitude comes in you are you're it's obvious that you're very good at getting down. Yes, negative thoughts. And I would work on that first and foremost. Okay?

Okay, that's really good advice. Thank you so much. All right, we gotta get going. Hopefully this was helpful. It was definitely helpful. Thank you so much for taking the time to talk with me. No problem. Just remember, check in with yourself,

give yourself grace, focus on gratitude. Every day you're gonna have to catch yourself. You'll never master it, but you just have to good at just naming it. I'm doing it again, I'm ruminating, I'm thinking negatively, let's change my thought. Gratitude, what am I grateful for? And just obsessively focus on that.

And I promise you, things will get better. Okay. Thank you so much. Congrats to you and the wife. I appreciate it. And Natalie. Yes. Thanks so much. All right. Well, keep us updated.

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and breathable to help protect sensitive skin through potty training. Learn more at Huggies.com. Once again, head to huggies.com to learn more. How's it going? Hi, I'm Libby, I'm 24, and my city makes it impossible for me to move on. Okay, can you elaborate? Why is your city, what city?

Charleston, South Carolina. Okay. And I just, I've been running into my ex recently. What city? What city? Charleston, South Carolina. Okay. And I just, I've been running into my ex recently. And I feel like every time I run into him, especially like if he's on a date with another girl, it kind of sets me back in like my healing journey. And then there's constant reminders

of this relationship everywhere I look and it's starting to like feel like maybe I can't move on here No, I certainly know the feeling Been there how how fresh is this breakup? It's actually been over a year. So a year in a few months. Okay, so it's been a bit So we need to we need to figure out I don't think it's your city Okay, I mean I know Charleston's not like the biggest city in the world, but you know. Right. Yeah. How many times in the past year have you ran into him on a date? Twice on a date and then once at the store. All right. So three times in the past year. Yes. Not a crazy amount. You're right.

Three times in the past year. Yes. Not a crazy amount. You're right. But every time I see him, it feels like I start to go through the breakup all over again. Totally, totally valid. But I think it just comes down to figuring out what you're doing or what you're allowing yourself to think and feel when you do run into him or you find an old photo or you run into, you know, you pull up at,

you know, you're not paying attention, you're listening to your favorite, you know, Taylor Swift song or whatever, you know, you pull up to a four, you know, you look up and then you see, you realize that you're at this place and across the street is a place that you had a memory with, you know what I'm saying? Like that, you know, or our song comes on the radio

and you're like, this was our song or a moment, you know, that you reminisced about the song. And you know what I'm saying? And so in truth, it's all of those things, you know, that you're doing that's stopping you from moving on. Why did you guys, why did you guys break up in the first place? Well, I think that's probably been like the hardest part is I don't really have clarity on that.

Um, it was kind of abrupt and I thought that there was going to be a followup conversation and that never happened. So he ended the relationship. Yes. And it felt kind of odd. And how long did you guys date for? Um, for? Like two and a half years. Okay. That sucks. I'm sorry. That must be hard. And I'm assuming you probably talked a lot about your future? We probably should have more. I think I thought a lot of things were implied and

in retrospect I should have gotten clarity. Gotcha, but I mean, like talking or whatever, but you either in your, that's good that you admitted that, but like you had a mindset that this guy might be your future. I definitely thought that for sure. Okay. We were in game, but.

Great, well, not great, but. Well, step one, you need to get it out of your head that you need something from him to move on. As hard as it is to admit to yourself and your ego, you have to just accept the fact that he chose to no longer make you a priority in his life. And I don't know why or the reasons. And honestly, those reasons, like, as I say in my book I don't

know if you've read it but there's a whole chapter on getting over people but like when it comes to closure there's this thing we do we've you mentioned I thought we're gonna have one more conversation you know and that didn't happen right and I can promise you that conversation wasn't gonna give you closure all that conversation would have done would would have been of torturing yourself in the history of breakup conversations that one more conversation that people always reference they want has never changed anyone's mind and all it does is make someone who him that's someone I'm being

not sure what he's supposed to say to you and he's so focused on not trying to be the bad guy to you and he he doesn't wanna have, you know, and so you're basically asking someone who's already rejected you to come up with new ways and new ideas and excuses of why they still wanna reject you. Yeah, I guess I never looked at it like that, but yeah, that checks out.

Yeah. I feel like I kinda have a habit of doing things like that. We all do. I mean I was a master at this, you know, so no judgment. So you just really have to try to like limit your ego, right, and just say, listen, I don't know why he didn't want to prioritize me anymore. And that does make me sad. But we also have to take that rejection and see if for what it really is, is someone who's no longer willing to make you a priority.

And you want someone willing to make you a priority. You know, he wasn't willing to fight for, you know, or work through his feelings. And I know you said it was abrupt, but when you look back on the relationship, was he really the perfect boyfriend? No, far from it. Yeah, definitely there were some issues there.

Like what? This is really like embarrassing, but we were together for two and a half years and he like never told me that he loved me. So. It's not embarrassing. Yeah. I think it's embarrassing that I stayed for as long as I did

without like getting that confirmation in our relationship But I mean sure. I don't know. Yeah, I mean I guess and i'm not saying this to be mean or pile on but It's more embarrassing that you allowed yourself not to get over this guy for a year Knowing that there were things you weren't even getting in the relationship Yeah, and I don't think you need to be embarrassed at all. But I do think we just need to start being more honest with ourselves about this relationship and stop not allowing ourselves to let go and blaming on this. Listen, if you decide to spread your wings and move to a new city, I'm all for that. I did that.

It was one of the greatest decisions I ever made. You can always go back home, as I say, but I don't want you to do it for fucking him. I don't want you to do it because you're running away from someone. I want you to do it because you're pursuing something, that you're going after something. You're chasing a dream, not avoiding someone.

You're giving him way, you know. I want you to get mad at the idea that all of this energy that you have thought about him in the past year and a half is energy he's never asked you to give and he doesn't deserve. Yeah, that's like a good way of looking at it, for sure. And one of the things that drastically changed my life was realizing that I have the power to control my thoughts. Yeah, I definitely like kind of spiral, especially like when I see him with a girl, I think like, why? Like, why is she better than me? And I kind of get caught up in like that negative cycle of emotions.

She's definitely not. I I mean I don't know who they are she is but they're not better than her is different and right he'll probably break up with them eventually too or vice versa I don't know you know what I'm saying like yeah and even if you know uh I was engaged once long ago it ended very poorly I was crushed she ended up you know marrying the guy that cheated on me with, and then eventually they got divorced. I have the benefit of several years going by to tell that story, but I had moved on before that,

but I could have been, oh, she married him, what does that say about me, and blah, blah, blah, and yada, yada, and I can't, it's just, you know what I'm saying? So, I mean, like, it's funny, like, I really relate to you. I really do. And I was about your age when I was at my, like, there was this, there was, my first girlfriend broke up many times,

and mostly it was her breaking up with me. And one of the breakups I handled very, very poorly. And I obsessed. She drove a silver Ford Focus. I don't think they make those cars anymore. And I swore to God, that was the only car I saw. And I tortured myself. I was like, oh, I see her Ford Focuses. Oh, you know, I was obsessed with her birthday. And not even,

not, not even I was obsessed with her birthday. It wasn't even about her birthday. I was obsessed with like, just not getting over it. Right. And so I, I convinced myself that subconsciously, I always looked at the clock at, at the exact time that was her birthday. You know what I'm saying? Like, I'm not going to say her birthday, but if it was like, let's say her birthday was June 15th, it's not. I would always look at the clock at 6 15 a.m. or p.m. Then one time, let's imagine her birthday is June 15th. One time for work, I stayed in a hotel, you know what room I stayed in? 6 15. True story, that happened. I stayed in the room, remember it was her birthday, in the middle of this terrible breakup,

and I was like, I saw that as a sign or whatever. But the truth is, I was so obsessed, I was looking for it, you know what I'm saying? And then I would identify it because the truth is, the hardest part of getting over someone is accepting that it's over and letting go. Because the truth is, part of the reason why you've had's over and letting go. Because the truth is, part of the reason why you've had

a hard time letting go is that like, the memory of him is still him, you know? And you still kind of have him, right? In your thoughts, in your memories. And that something as toxic and as terrible is, in your brain is better than nothing. And you're kind of, you're afraid to let it go. Yeah, I definitely think that's the case. I, you know, very quickly after the relationship,

I wiped my phone of all the photos. I hid every lasting memory like in my house. But then I think, yeah, like my own brain is kind of working against me. And I'm kind of unable to like let go of some of those memories. Yeah. You're nodding your head when I was talking about forward focuses. I mean, what are the things that that's going on in your world? Well, it's a Chevy Traverse for me and I see them everywhere.

And it's actually kind of been really distracting driving. So that's like another thing that I've kind of like, I think I stay in a little bit more just to like avoid the anxiety of seeing his car everywhere. You're looking for his cars, you really are, I promise you. Yeah. At this point, it's become a subconscious thing

that you're doing where you're looking for it. Also, Chevys are very common cars. So are Ford Focuses. You know what I'm saying? It's not fucking fate or whatever the universe is trying to fuck with you. You can control your thoughts. You are right now not giving yourself that gift of recognizing that you're able to do that. And you are allowing yourself to feel stuck and you are literally staying at home so you don't see random fucking people driving a car. Yeah, yeah.

And I'm not saying that with judgment, I literally have been you. Yeah, it's been like a very consuming part of my life that I always say I want this part of my life to be over, but I know hearing you say it kind of confirms what I already knew is that I've been keeping myself kind of in this place. Yes, yeah. It's not your city, it's not him, it's really just, it's you. And you haven't let go. Yeah.

You have still subconsciously told yourself, you're owed this conversation. When I asked you why it ended, you're like, well, to be honest, I don't really know. That's not true. Yeah. Like it ended because he didn't wanna be with you, if for no other reason.

And you have not spent near enough time, if you are gonna think about them, on focusing on these things that weren't good enough. The fact that you stayed with him for two and a half years and expressed words of affirmation to him and were so willing to not hear it from him and then instead make excuses for what he didn't do, you know, and things like that.

And I'm sure that's just the tip of the iceberg of things that you didn't appreciate about the relationship or things you put up with and things that you weren't happy with. And instead of focusing on that, you're just only focusing on the fact that he rejected you and not feeling good enough and trying to find an answer as to why someone rejected you.

Yeah, I think that that's probably a big thing for me is rejection. I hate it. It's an issue with me at work. It's an issue in my personal life. I just don't like the feeling of feeling rejected. Which is normal. But you gotta figure that out.

You know, you gotta, one, you just have to acknowledge that it's gonna happen. Whether it's work, whether it's romantic lives, not everyone's gonna love you or like you, and you're only doing yourself a disservice by focusing on people rejecting you rather than people who are willing to accept you. Because you're gonna change who you are,

and not for the better. Right, that's so true. When you do meet someone worthy of your time and attention, you're going to get really frustrated with yourself about how much energy you gave this guy. But you're not going to find this guy until you let go. Yeah, I guess that's also a thing. Like it's been so hard for me to date and it's probably because I'm just not even allowing myself really. No, my guess is that you have obsessively focused on all the things you miss about them.

Yeah, 100%. And then when you go on these dates, those obsessive thoughts are the things that you, are the only things you're looking for in these people you go on dates with. Therefore, sitting yourself up for failure because no guy is able to live up to a made up memory in your head

of someone who literally doesn't exist. Yeah, no, it's true. Cause that guy doesn't exist and yeah. So how do we get you to change your thoughts and behaviors? I guess it's kind of just kind of redirecting my thoughts when I start going down that tunnel because I mean, I don't know what else I can do. Yeah, I mean, I stop, you know,

when you have a thought of staying in because you're afraid of running it, you gotta suck it up and say, I'm not gonna let this person control me, they're not even in my life. And I'm not, stop looking for it. If you see the Chevy, don't make it a thing in your mind. Don't do the whole, oh my God, there's another one.

You don't need to do that. Just let it go, just let it go. And the less of it, the less you make it a big deal, the less of a big deal it'll be. But right now you've just made it such a big deal and now it's compounding and adding out, oh, there's another, there's another Chevy. I'm doomed. Yeah, that's so true. Now I gotta see something, whenever I see a Ford Focus, I just like laugh at myself

how obsessed I was. That's so funny. when I ever see a Ford Focus, I just laugh at myself, how obsessed I was. You know? That's so funny. Yeah, like, I mean, it's true. I mean, unfortunately for you, you probably will always be reminded of this period of your life, but hopefully, like I am,

I'm able to look back very differently. It was a, you know, it's something I've learned a lot about and about myself and- Yeah, I think hearing kind of like your similar experiences gives me like a little bit more hope because for the past like few months I've really been like really looking like at what I can do and just knowing like that it is possible to kind of come out the other side is giving me hope. Yeah, so it's really just, I mean, other than blocking them, muting them and things like that,

I'm sure you've probably already done that. It's controlling your thoughts. It's not allowing yourself to go down those mental rabbit holes. And I used to act like, I used to think I didn't have the ability. I used to, well, I can't help how I feel. I can't help what I think about.

I can't help what crosses my brain. What am I gonna do? And that's just not true. You can have a thought, you can acknowledge that thought entwining your head. You can say to yourself, stop, stop. What else, what could I think about that makes me happier?

Gratitude is the number one thing you can, what do you have? What are you thankful for? When I was in this position, having a hard time getting over someone, I started volunteering, you know? I would, I tried to like focus on how I could help people. It's not like a magic trick where immediately one day

you volunteer and it's like I'm over it, but it's just the practice of focusing on, focus this energy or that right now you're wasting on this person who doesn't exist. And it's like, well, if you're not gonna help yourself out, help out others. How can you, just small acts of kindness, just little things that bring you joy,

silly thing, not silly, but like, you're at Starbucks and just like, I'm gonna pay for the person behind me. It's just a thought. Having that thought to do that, having the thought to do the, it's almost nervous, it's almost awkward. That is energy.

And that's energy you could have been thinking about him or reminding that one time you were at Starbucks and whatever, you know? It's just like, you gotta catch yourself in these moments and saying enough is enough. Like, he just doesn't wanna be with me and that's okay. And honestly, why am I so obsessed over a guy who didn't wanna validate my feelings?

It's so beneath me. Right, yeah. I've been told that I can be kind of pessimistic. So it's definitely something that I need to kind of actively work on. And I like, I like helping others. So when you say that, and kind of pouring my energy and transferring it into something positive, yeah, I think I can do that. Positive. Yeah, I think I can do that. Well, good. Because that's I think that's the easiest way to start is to like, because you know, controlling our thoughts again, you know, I say you have the power to control your thoughts. It doesn't mean tomorrow, you're never going to think about them. It means you're going to think about them. And then you're going to catch yourself and then you're going to again, transfer that energy into something else something more positive. And develop those habits of the things that you you start thinking about when when you realize that what you're thinking about isn't productive. Yeah, definitely. Alright. And if you haven't read Don't Take Your Ex Happy Birthday, it was written for you. Yeah, buying it tomorrow. Okay. Chapter 10. But the whole book, it's like, honestly, read the first chapter, skip to chapter 10, and

go back to chapter two. Seriously. But yeah, you're not alone, but stop being a victim of this relationship, you know, and stop blaming things that are ridiculous. It's a catchy headline, but like, it's not your city. You don't need to move to get over this guy. Running into him doesn't affect you if you don't allow it to. And honestly, three times over a year is not a big deal.

I want to see him finding you on a date. You're clearly a very eligible woman. I'm sure you have a lot of options if you want to pursue those options and you need to focus your energy on that. Okay, yeah. And you have to learn how to control your ego. Yeah, I can do that. Definitely, it's all about the ego, for sure.

Yeah, and it's just, you know, you have the power to control your thoughts. Yeah. It's the biggest takeaway I want you to have. Because right now- I really appreciate it. You've been acting like you don't. Yeah, no that's so true. All right, well keep us posted on this journey. I am invested in you getting over this. All right, thank you so much. All right, take care. You too. All right, bye-bye. Thanks for listening. Send in those questions to us at nickofthelff files.com. See you then. See you tomorrow. Bye.