The Viall Files - E762 GD w/ West Wilson - Summer House, Girlcode, Sleep Training, and Perfect Match with Tolú

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Starting point is 00:01:18 Well, hey people, let's talk about gooder because summer is here and it's time to protect those eyes from the piercing sun. I know you'll be all outdoors and I'm here to tell you that you no longer need to waste money on glasses that you're inevitably going to lose or break. Make sure you're having fun this summer and stop worrying about keeping those sunglasses you overspent on safe. Well Gooder is here to give you sunglasses that cost as little as $25. I honestly can't tell the difference between my $25 Gooder glasses and the $500 Designer glasses I used to waste my money on.

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Starting point is 00:02:10 if you wanna get real fun. All of their sunglasses, 100% polarized and only $25, they're also releasing new colors and styles all the time. They're great for running, cycling, working out, golfing, doesn't matter if you're just chilling or being active, Gooder has got you covered. If you want to support the show and try a pair, Gooder is giving the Volfile listeners free shipping. I mean they're only $25 to begin with, what more could

Starting point is 00:02:33 you ask for? So you can go to Gooder.com slash viall and use code viall for free shipping. Gooder offers a 30-day money-back guarantee and 100% satisfaction. Again, that's gooder, g-o-o-d-r.com slash v-i-a-l-l and use code v-i-a-l-l for free shipping. What's going on everybody? Welcome back to another exciting episode of The Vile Files Going Deeper edition. I'm your host, Nick, joined by the household. And boy, do we have so much to get into. We really, really do. Anyway, we got West Wilson for Going Deeper today.

Starting point is 00:03:22 Big interview. Excited. Big interview. Big, exciting interview. And we are happy to report, we ask him a lot of questions about his dating ways. His fuckable behavior, his fear of commitment in relationships. And well again, we'll let you listen to it

Starting point is 00:03:35 and decide for yourself if we still like or hate West. We love your feedback from our comments on Reality Recap. We will get into that a little bit later before we get to West. Before we do, we got Tolu from Perfect Match joining us shortly to talk about all things Perfect Match. How toxic do we think Harry Jowsey is on a scale of one to Scandival?

Starting point is 00:03:59 I think he's more dangerous. Past Scandival. I think he's past, I think he's more dangerous than Tom Sandable in terms of potential data. I don't think I've ever seen a man weaponize his tears like that before. That was wild.

Starting point is 00:04:11 And then when Jess started crying, I was like, no, I know this move. That is gaslighting. Gaslighting, like it's in his arsenal. Like he does it every episode. Textbook, he could write a book on gaslighting. He gaslighted me in his confessional. I was like, am I crying?

Starting point is 00:04:27 No, no, no, no. I was like, this is BS. Where are the fake tears? For all the West Wilson haters out there, just watch Perfect Match. Those are some real fuckboys. That is, that's like the professionals. Like we're talking minor leagues for West here.

Starting point is 00:04:43 I'm also so confused by the name Perfect Match now because I was like, none of these men specifically are looking for a perfect match. Why isn't the show called You're My Type? Everyone says that. Every fucking person is like, you're my type. You're my type-ish. You're A type.

Starting point is 00:05:00 Like, what does that even mean? Because that's like, OK, thanks, I guess. What do we go from here? okay, thanks, I guess. What do we go from here? Like, great, I'm it, I'm your type, so is she, cool. Anyways, we are excited to have Tolu on to dive deeper into Perfect Match. Next week, we have a very exciting week for you.

Starting point is 00:05:18 Obviously we have Reality Recap, we have- Stevan. Is it Stevan? Stevan. Stevan from Perfect Match is joining us for Reality Recap, among others. It. Is it seven? Seven. Seven from Perfect Match is joining us for Reality Recap, among others. It's gonna be a wild, wild episode. Next week is not gonna be a Going Deeper,

Starting point is 00:05:30 it's gonna be another Reality Recap. Brian Baumgartner from The Office, Kevin, you also might know him as Kevin from The Office. Kevin Malone. Joins us, among others, we'll be talking, again, just another Reality Recap. Doesn't mean Going Deeper is going away, we have some great Going Deeper episodes

Starting point is 00:05:44 lined up in the docket, but we wanna listen to the audience, give them what they want. And instead of a full going deeper episode, we're giving you more Reality Recap next week. So get ready, it's gonna be a lot of fun. Yeah, Brian Bromgren is gonna be with us talking about his new cookbook,

Starting point is 00:06:01 Seriously Barbecue Cookbook. It's out now, by the way. If you are looking for an amazing Father's Day gift, which is this weekend for all you fathers out there, it's my first Father's Day. Super excited about that. But I can tell you right now, I am super glad that Brian gave me this book. It's incredible. If your husband, husband, lover, if he likes to grill, if he likes to cook, and if you're looking for something interesting and fun to give them on this Father's Day, seriously, you got to give them this book. Seriously good barbecue book by Brian Baumgartner.

Starting point is 00:06:27 It's honestly, your husband will appreciate it. I absolutely love it. There's amazing recipes in there. It's super easy to make. You're welcome. Go get your husband a great Father's Day gift by Brian Baumgartner. Again, it's called Seriously Good Barbecue Book,

Starting point is 00:06:40 and we're with Brian next. Cookbook? Yeah. It's a cookbook. It's incredible. Anyways, it's a really fun episode with Brian next week, so look out for that. What? What?

Starting point is 00:06:53 Barbecue book is the same as a cookbook. I'm pretty sure you can find it on Amazon. No, that was a great plug, that was all. This is good, it's like it's Father's Day. I'm just here for all the fathers out there. All right, is it time for household headlines? Yes, household headlines. Starting with Vanderpump rules.

Starting point is 00:07:10 We've got Sheena saying that she can be a girl's girl. What do we think? Okay. What is a girl's girl? Is that because she was in Allie Luber's music video, Girl's Girl, or because she's actually a girl's girl? Let's clarify what she says.

Starting point is 00:07:21 So she said, you put me in the right group of girls, I got your back. It's so tough where I didn't come into the show, Vanderpump, with a group of welcoming women, so that's what's hard. People have always seen me as a guy's girl. No, the guys were just nicer to me in the beginning. That's an interesting point.

Starting point is 00:07:35 Sheena did not get to choose her women friends in the Vanderpump universe. Does that mean that we believed she is in fact a girl's girl? And in fact a girl's girl? And what makes a girl's girl by the way, ladies? What's like a scenario? Like just having a girl like a girl's back no matter what it's it's being loyal. It's it's yeah. Like here's here's a scenario where you're not a girl's girl. Okay. So like

Starting point is 00:07:58 say me and Sierra are at like a football game. Okay. Go sports. That's that's me being a girl's girl right there as I showed up to a football game, okay? Go sports. That's me being a girl's girl right there as I showed up to a football game. No, no, no, we're at a football game and Sierra's like, oh my gosh, this guy Connor, he's like so hot, I have like the biggest crush on him. And we're around Connor and I'm like, oh my God, Sierra, you have the biggest booger in your nose.

Starting point is 00:08:20 It's like so embarrassing calling them out in front of like the guy that's just like, that's giving not girls girl energy. That's just an example. Okay, we were discussing earlier, would you be a girls girl if you're always the girl who's like stealing the baseball cap of some guy? Oh no, gross.

Starting point is 00:08:39 That's a pick me girl, that's a little different. Like you have to have a boyfriend to wear their sweatshirt or baseball cap, right? I mean or like be comfortable enough to wear it's like. Like you have to have, yeah it's gotta be your. You have to have, yeah you can't just like take. At least a situationship. Like permission.

Starting point is 00:08:54 Yeah you can't just like take someone's stuff without like asking. Yeah but aren't there a lot of like, I feel like a girl's girl, and again correct me if I'm wrong, would be like you're at a house party, football game, whatever, you're with your group of friends, and you kind of stick together, where there's always that one girl who's like roaming around trying to like flirt with... Take everyone's hat. Or like flirt with guys.

Starting point is 00:09:15 Or it's like, I'm different. Like that's the thing. Or like putting down your friends being like, no, like I'm a guys girl. I like chicken wings and Sunday football. Yeah. Or if your friend asks, hey can you come with me to the bathroom? And she's like, no, it's the seventh inning and I'm chilling with the guys.

Starting point is 00:09:32 You can go pee by yourself. Would you want me to hold your vagina? What do you need from me? What am I gonna do there? Wipe for you? Disgusting, I'm not doing that. Are there, what is it, guys girls? Or what's the? Guys girls. Yeah, guys girls?

Starting point is 00:09:45 Are there guys out there who are in it for the girlies? Do guys, is that the same thing? I think so. Madeline's boyfriend Tyler, who we had dinner with, she was like, he is such a guys girl. She's like, he would so much rather like sit with us and gossip and like talk about like girl stuff than like be with the guys.

Starting point is 00:10:02 And we're like, that's so fun. I'd say. So we like guys girls? Yeah. I can be both the guys yeah that's so fun I'd say so we like guys girls yeah I can be both yeah it's like I like when somebody can like have the conversation and not be like oh this is boy it's women talking or whatever they like jump in they're enthused but they can also walk away and it's not a big deal but they're just like happy to be involved or like very welcoming to your girlfriends and like it's not weird that you're hanging out with us. It's more so like, oh my god, I love it

Starting point is 00:10:26 when he puts in his input. Yeah. Me. Me. Maybe this is a question for me, but I don't know if guys have the same strong opinion about guys who are guys girls. Versus being guys guys?

Starting point is 00:10:40 Yeah. I know that guys will be like, bros, perform on something, shit like that. That's probably guys will be like, bros, bros, bros, bros, bros, something like that. That's probably the equivalent. Like, you're not gonna come fishing because you're gonna hang out with your wife and her friends? Yeah, but that's different. You're in a relationship.

Starting point is 00:10:54 Yeah. Or just like, you're not gonna hang out with the guys? I could see someone's like boyfriend or husband having an issue being like, well, why is this guy always hanging around? But like, if it's somebody's boyfriend or something, or like a close friend. Yeah, I feel like it's not an equivalent.

Starting point is 00:11:08 It's not the same. There is guy code though, right? Bro code? There's a scenario where if there's a group of guys and one of them cheats on his wife, they keep it a secret. I don't subscribe to guy code. Like, I feel like the perfect guys.

Starting point is 00:11:18 Bro code, yeah. The perfect match are all... All the perfect match guys are all like bro code kind of guys. Like, I've never been a bro code guy It's just like right is right and wrong is wrong and like I'm I'm that annoying friend is like well don't be a fuck Cuz that's not a girl All right, so do we believe Sheena? I think so because she's friends with a lot of people within the like bravo sphere

Starting point is 00:11:40 She's friends with like Whitney Rose So I think if you give her the right group of women. But having girlfriends doesn't mean you're a girl's girl, right? Right. Right. It's how you act around your girlfriends. It's how you act when you're in a group of women and men. It's like, yeah.

Starting point is 00:11:54 Saying you would rather be gang banged by everybody in a van versus sit in a car with other women's girlfriends. Sheena may have become more of a girl's girl than she has been in the past. Well, she's admitting that in the Vanderpump context, she's not really a girl's girl, because the guys were nicer.

Starting point is 00:12:11 I can appreciate that. Yeah, that's valid. Sheena had no reason to be a girl's girl in Vanderpump world for how the women treated her. But the question is- I'm not gonna tell you you have a booger if you're not nice to me. The question is, is that who Sheena really is?

Starting point is 00:12:27 You know, maybe she was a girl's girl and maybe she's less of a girl's girl. And are all girls girls pick me's? Are they one and the same? Or can you be a pick me and not a girl's girl or a girl's girl and not a pick me? Intersectional. You can be both.

Starting point is 00:12:40 You can be both. She thinks can be two different things. What makes a pick me and not a girl's girl? A pick me is like someone who like. Or a girl's guy. No, it's like, are you a pick me and a girl's guy? Am I making sense? No.

Starting point is 00:12:54 And a guy's girl. If you're a pick me, are you automatically not a girl's girl? No. I don't think so. No. No. You can have pick me qualities and still be a girl's girl.

Starting point is 00:13:02 I think it's more so about like what your relationship, if you're the same with guys as you are with girls, more power to you. If they're more so like, I prefer hanging out with guys because there's so much more accepting. It's kind of like, I feel like just like women in general, it's like we're in our own little like honorary group where we're like, we'll bring you in

Starting point is 00:13:18 as long as you don't give me a reason not to like you. Yeah, it's like if you're the same around women as you are with men, then I think there's not a difference. But if you're like quiet and like, you know, laid back when you're around your girls, then as soon as you don't get around guys, you're like, oh my god, this is that, la la la. Then it's like, and you're giving me, yeah.

Starting point is 00:13:38 Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Nailed it. There it is. What else we got for headlines? Ariana's on Love Island. Oh, Ariana, yeah, the internet lost their mind. There it is. What are we out? What else we got for headlines? Ariana's on the violin. Oh

Starting point is 00:13:47 Yeah, the internet lost their mind She looks at fans as they say Ariana was serving As they say as they say so they premiered the episode the episode was last night love Island Should we be covering more love Island? Let us know if you want us to cover more love Island Are you sure that island girl? Oh, yeah, I'm more of a UK Gurley, but yeah, we could cover. I don't know if I have it. Do you watch it on the VPN or the Hulu? Hulu, because I don't think you can legally do that on a VPN, right?

Starting point is 00:14:16 She's saying this now because she doesn't wanna get it on. Yes, Hulu. Hulu. Wait, are we? Okay. Is that your wing? She looks so good. Ariana looks amazing. She looks insane.

Starting point is 00:14:30 They were saying this was her revenge outfit part three. So you had reunion 10, 11 and then- I think saying revenge outfit part three, we got to let Ariana move on from Sandoval. Yes. We got to just let her be hot. Yeah. And not just be like revenge, revenge, revenge. Like no, she's just hot at this point. Yeah. She's just let her be hot. Yeah. And not just be like, revenge, revenge, revenge.

Starting point is 00:14:45 Like, no, she's just hot at this point. Yeah, she's just like a professional host who's crushing life. And it's not about getting back at Tom Sandoval anymore. She gets married in like five years and everyone's like, oh, revenge bridal dress. Right? God, she, yeah, this is insane.

Starting point is 00:15:02 Oh my God. Did you watch it? She's so hot. I watched the first 15 minutes, I'm saving the rest for the weekend, but they have this whole choreographed dance, which was incredibly interesting. I'm curious how much they're gonna make Ariana part of this, because honestly when it comes to these shows,

Starting point is 00:15:19 the host, for example, we're not watching Perfect Match for Nick Lachey. No, I'm watching Love Island USA for Ariana though. Like I'm more of a, I'm definitely more of a Love Island UK person in Australia. I love Australia as well. I never watched the USA version, but now I am. I mean they are trying so hard to make Love Island USA work.

Starting point is 00:15:38 I mean I think putting Ariana Maddox as their host is definitely- Is it on Peacock? Yep, yes. Oh, see? Network. Yeah. Little cross promotion. Well if it on Peacock? Yep. Oh, see. Mm-hmm, network. Yeah, little cross promotion. Well, if it's not gonna work with Ariana. It ain't gonna work. How many Brits do they have? Because every time I hear,

Starting point is 00:15:52 the only thing I know about Love Island, the difference between the UK and the USA, is that it's the kind of culture of the Brits that make it as entertaining as it is. Oh yeah, the slang, the ick, the, and then Mya Gemma, amazing. Also, it's longer. So it's like, I don't know, I think it's like three months

Starting point is 00:16:11 versus like a month and a half in US, but just so much happens and you just get really sucked in and it's five days a week, like of, yeah, episodes come out five days a week. One is like a stuff that you didn't get to see, like a blooper reel and the other one is like an after sun. But yeah, we're watching. How are we doing it? How are we watching? That's too much. Yeah, literally too much. We're not. I don't know. Even just like the people who listen to our show and they're like, I saw that episode. I saw that

Starting point is 00:16:37 episode. How are we doing it? Just Sierra, how are we doing it? How are we? I'm watching everything. Everything. I don't know. Real Housewives, Summer House, VPR, Valley. If I'm being honest, I'm like the amount of times I have to watch episodes multiple time over, because I'm like, I don't know when I fell asleep. Like it's just like, she's playing. No, like just all of our shows when I wake up, I'm like, oh. It's a lot of binge.

Starting point is 00:16:58 It's a lot of binge watching. It's a lot of being like, all right, I have seven hours. How much do you dream about the shows that we watch? I don't know what to dream and what's not. I'm telling you, I wake up and I'm like, I didn't see that, gotta go back. I don't think I've ever dreamed about it, no. No, now that I think about it,

Starting point is 00:17:13 I don't think I've ever dreamed about, I've had stress dreams about work, but not- Oh my God. So it's her job to just quit. Jesus Christ. What specifically? Yeah, should we talk about that? I don't remember my dreams most of the time,

Starting point is 00:17:24 but I feel like the other day I had a stress stream about like something going wrong with the Zoom. What reaction of mine concerns you the most? Just like general disappointment. I was like, think carefully. I know, impending doom. Cause I don't raise my voice or yell ever. No you don't, I just don't want anyone being disappointed.

Starting point is 00:17:46 I'm that same way. So I worked for this surgeon in Georgia, who I just like. She had a crush on. Not really. I mean, he was beautiful, but I respected him so much and I just never wanted to disappoint him. And anytime that I had to, it's when Nick and I first started seeing each other and I was flying out to to like disappoint him. And anytime that I had to like, it's when Nick and I first started seeing each other

Starting point is 00:18:07 and I was like flying out to LA every so often. I'm like, I have to take off my hair. And I would get, or if I'd like mess up in surgery or if I'd give him the wrong thing, I would sob. And I would be like, I'm so sorry. And he was always like, it's okay. And I was like, I just feel like I disappointed you. And I'm like, you hate me.

Starting point is 00:18:24 The worst feedback is I'm not upset. I'm just disappointed. Well, of course that's like what it's been. I feel like for everyone, a parent. Do I have a disappointed look? You do. Yeah. Maybe not look, but you get silent.

Starting point is 00:18:36 I was gonna say it's the get quiet. Yeah, that's what it is. And they're like, what's going on up there? Do I speak first? You do, you get when you're disappointed or upset, you get very quiet. Okay. And then? You do, you get, when you're disappointed or upset, you get very quiet. Okay. And then I'm like,

Starting point is 00:18:48 No. That's better than the other. I'm not ever upset. It's just more like. No, yell at me. You want me to yell at you? Yes. Really?

Starting point is 00:18:58 Just don't give me the silent treatment. I wanna see that. I wanna see you yell at me. Why don't you give me the silent treatment? No, you don't. You're just quiet. You don't ignore. You're just like. It's cause you're formulating in your head. Yeah. don't, you're just quiet. You don't ignore, you're just like.

Starting point is 00:19:05 It's because you're formulating in your head. Yeah, yeah. That's what it is. I'm more like, hmm, that's an interesting choice. Yeah, hmm. Yeah? And I'm like, oh my God. I wish I could just disappear. All right, what else we got?

Starting point is 00:19:16 We've got some summer house drama going on. We have Amanda posted an IG story in a club with a man holding his phone up, reading, can I fuck Amanda? And Kyle is on stage saying respect how do we feel about that? What is he supposed to say? Yeah, I think he said the right thing. Oh, I Guess I'm team Kyle on this one. It's more didn't Amanda post this She did this end up on the internet so Amanda did post on her IG story How I mean it just it's from a night where Kyle's. Yeah, it's, how, I mean, it just, it's.

Starting point is 00:19:45 From a night where Kyle's DJing, so she's there with him. Yes. Hmm, they probably just found it funny. I know there's people in the cast who are questioning their relationship. Given the context that she's flirting with Jesse publicly, it's questionable. But I prescribe to the fact that it's just harmless.

Starting point is 00:20:03 Yeah, I would agree. I mean, I wouldn't, it bother harmless. Yeah, I would agree. I mean, wouldn't it bother you? Was the guy even in the photo, or was it literally just a picture? It was like an arm. It's not like, she has no idea who this guy is. It's just a funny sign. If I were openly in...

Starting point is 00:20:17 No. Would it bother you? Immediately, no. If it was all reversed, how would you handle? Even if I was like, hey, let's just do it for the clicks Babe, let's let's get the people talking I just feel like there's certain things that just add stress even if you plan on Even if you do it for the bit doesn't it add stress to the relationship

Starting point is 00:20:37 Isn't it like we're a hot couple like he wants to fuck me, but also you're fucking me So then we're both hot it just requires People have sex with hot people it requires a lot of Confidence security emotional maturity do we think Kyle is equipped with that I don't Hope I'm wrong I don't you know, but I just I think's smoke, there's fire. Considering Kyle hasn't spoken out about it, I think he's very secure in this reality. Even, I guess even with like the Jesse stuff, because he hasn't, you know.

Starting point is 00:21:13 I imagine Amanda must have run that by him before she posted it. You certainly would hope. Yeah, I would hope. Anyways, all right, I think smoke, fire. I think trouble is a brewing. So I think. I think him calling her a bitch is worse.

Starting point is 00:21:31 Yeah, different context, but yeah. Well, there's like speculation right now about their relationships. Because Amanda didn't go to a wedding with Kyle. Yeah, Andrea Denver is getting married in Venice right now or Verona right now. And Kyle is there, but Amanda's not. And so people were like, that's strange

Starting point is 00:21:48 that she wouldn't go. But then an insider came out and said, they're very much still together. Yeah, so they have an outside source confirming. Well, I don't doubt that they're together. I'm just wondering how connected they are today. They seemed pretty good at the reunion, I will say. Like they were like, that was filmed,

Starting point is 00:22:03 what, months ago, wasn't it? Also, they just weren't really the focus. That's true. They did feel like they were holding hands and they felt like a united front. But yeah, I got what they gave me. Anyone can hold hands. You know. They are filming, right?

Starting point is 00:22:17 They're going to be filming soon, the next season though. So it could be them amping up for like. Could be, yeah. Something. It is summer. Well, speaking of fire, Captain Lee on his podcast said that he scrapped an episode with Carl Radke, basically saying that he offered him a softball interview,

Starting point is 00:22:31 and after they recorded it, Kyle demanded that they take it down or delete it. Thoughts on that? I'm kind of Team Carl here. Wait, I'm... My. Team Captain Lee, I'm like Captain Lee, first of all, they bonded over their sobriety.

Starting point is 00:22:46 Captain Lee has been sober for, I don't know how long, I want to say over a decade, and Carl kind of used him as a mentor. And then for them to have a conversation about whatever the relationship was with Lindsay, and then he turned around, called Captain Lee, yelled at him and said, like, you were taking advantage of me in this situation.

Starting point is 00:23:04 You don't have to use it, to where Captain Lee was like, we would never do that, and obviously scrapped the interview, so. I guess it's just more back to the conversation we had about social climbers or bottom feeders, which by the way, I was thinking about it last night, I think there was a difference, but we now don't have to get into it, but.

Starting point is 00:23:19 I don't think Captain Lee is a bottom feeder, though. No, no, no, I'm not saying he is, but I just, I don't, like, I don't know their relationship, but I keep hearing from people that, like, they were really friends, Carl thought of them as a mentor. It's just like, they're not real friends. Well, Captain Lee was like the head yacht. What do you call that?

Starting point is 00:23:35 Below deck? Yeah. What is this called? Captain? Captain? Captain? We all knew that there was an episode recorded right around the time we interviewed Lindsay. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:23:44 And we all know it didn't drop, and I know that a lot of people are asking, but he could have just been like, hey, Carl didn't want it out. He kinda sold Carl out, which is fine, but that's not being a friend. And also, don't we, can't Carl be a little sensitive about this topic?

Starting point is 00:24:02 But saying that your friend is taking advantage of you is different than being sensitive in my head, you know? I mean, he's just kind of outing his friend. Yeah, I mean, he is. So I just don't think they're friends. Yeah, well, no. I feel like it's kind of like the La La situation what you were talking about where I'm like,

Starting point is 00:24:13 the Bravo people and like your friends because you're in this universe, but like, are you actually friends? And also Captain Lee is like 80 years old. Like, you guys aren't hanging out at the bars. Yeah, and it's just more like, that was a conversation that I clearly had in private about like, Carl's comfort level with this episode,

Starting point is 00:24:29 and like, you know, Captain Lee's going out there and letting everyone know about it, so it's, I just don't think. Sounds like a little bit of a bait and switch too, like it sounds like Captain Lee kind of said that he wasn't gonna go too hard or grill him too much and would cut things out and then Carl didn't feel that way. Yeah, it's just a matter of perspective.

Starting point is 00:24:51 Would you scrap the interview? Depends on what the upfront expectations were. If the upfront expectations were that you would kind of have the person's back and be like, we won't ask too many questions about said topic. I was gonna say, if they weren't friends, that's just not our show. But if we were friends.

Starting point is 00:25:07 If it was like a tight friend who like, I was like, and I invited them on and the expectations of like, I got your back, you're my friend, like, let's just see how it goes. I mean, even with our guests, we'll have, you know, we want our guests to enjoy their experience, you know? And we're not trying to gotcha them, you know? We're not trying to be like,

Starting point is 00:25:25 oh, you said that's our too late. If they say something that doesn't land and they're not comfortable with it, we're not journalists here, we're entertainers. And so for the most part, we want them to enjoy their experience. Again, we reference the Tom Sandoval episode a lot, but that was a whole different animal

Starting point is 00:25:44 in terms of the upfront expectations and how he didn't kind of deliver on them. But, you know, semantics, I suppose. But yeah, for the most part, we try to have our guests enjoy the experience. If it was a friend of mine, yeah. I mean, it was like the whole point was, this is a safe space, this is a safe space.

Starting point is 00:26:01 I want you to come here and feel safe. Clearly, Carl didn't. Whether, you know, and you to come here and feel safe. Clearly Carl didn't. Whether, you know, and we can sit there and debate why, but if he invited him with the expectation of I'm your friend and I will protect you, then why is Captain Lee now changing course? Pun intended. I'm just wondering why, yeah,

Starting point is 00:26:21 why it's getting brought back up when the episode clearly didn't make it out. Yeah, it is weird. You know what I mean? Like hindsight. Protected him in the moment, but then... But now it's not. And why is Captain Lee saying it now while it's the most popular time to talk about Carl?

Starting point is 00:26:37 Summer House reunion. Seems a bit opportunistic. Which is fine, he's got a show to do, but you're just not friends. Maybe he's a top feeder. Oh. Or top feeder. Oh. Middle feeder. Or middle feeder.

Starting point is 00:26:48 What kind of fish swim in the middle? I don't know my fish. Tunas? I know there's a dead one that's float on the top. We have sleep trained our daughter. Oh. Speaking, actually she's just sleeping.

Starting point is 00:27:03 We didn't train shit. We didn't train shit. So every, so she's like a little didn't shit we just shit so every so she's like a little over four months everyone is like I'm sure it does it's that gilford on our guest on Monday he's like sleep train your daughter yeah on reality recap sleep train your daughter and we're like okay okay okay we got to do it but everyone's method is like yeah just let him cry it out it's three days of hell. What are you gonna do? I'm like, no, I'm not really, I don't really feel comfortable with that.

Starting point is 00:27:27 I don't wanna do that. So I would have to like go and stay in a hotel. Like I'm not staying in the same house, listening to my daughter scream and cry and be like, she's good. So we went to her doctor's appointment on Monday and I was talking to her pediatrician about it. And he was like, absolutely.

Starting point is 00:27:44 Like she does not, cause she was awake, she's a little over four months, she was waking up probably like twice still, and I would nurse her, and she'd immediately go back to sleep. So I was telling him this, and he's like, she doesn't, she's at an age now where she's like good throughout the night.

Starting point is 00:27:58 Like she's not hungry, she's like just doing this all out of habit. So he was like, first of all, she's never slept in her crib, in her bed, like in her nursery, she's never slept in there. So he was like, let's get her used to her nursery. So have her nap in there, have her just lay in there, like have her just feel comfortable in her crib.

Starting point is 00:28:16 So I'm like, okay, sure, we'll do that. We'll start there, right? I get home from work, she's in the crib. Now he's already practicing. She had fallen asleep in the car. So I like bring her inside, lay her down in her crib, she's out. I'm like, okay, cool. We'll just, we'll let her nap.

Starting point is 00:28:32 We'll see how long this lasts. She woke up and she was like, where am I? Yeah, she kind of is like, hmm. One point that I correct me if I'm wrong, because I wasn't there, but didn't he say instead of letting your baby cry out, kind of doing something like- Yeah, so he had a different method. So I was like, I'm not interested in this cry it out method.

Starting point is 00:28:48 He's like, no, no, no, don't do that. He was like, that will give your children this abandonment, where it's like, why I'm crying, like where are my mom and dad, why is no one coming to me? So he was like, do the five, 10, 15, where they cry for five minutes, you come in, you don't pick them up, you just like, soothe them in their crib,

Starting point is 00:29:06 so they know, I'm here, it's okay, go back to bed, but you have to learn to soothe yourself. So then he was like, then leave, after 10 minutes, go in, after 15, so it was like this whole thing. So we're like, okay, we're gonna try this out, we're gonna do this tonight. So, we're in her crib, and. She just sleeps in the other night.

Starting point is 00:29:25 She just sleeps the whole night. She does not wake up once. Perfect child. We were like, okay. So then I wake up around like 6.30. Expert sleeper. We have the monitor. I have two cameras on her, one that's on my phone

Starting point is 00:29:37 and then one like bedside monitor. And I'm just like falling asleep, like staring at it. I wake up every so often and would look at it and she's sleeping peacefully. And so then around 6. 30, I'm like, she'll probably wake up pretty soon because that's what time she'd wake up in our room. And I got up and like, okay, no, she's sleeping. Seven, she's sleeping. Seven thirty, she's still sleeping. I start like slamming the laundry door. I'm like kind of being a little loud. Finally, she wakes up, she's in the best mood. She's like, I'm so good.

Starting point is 00:30:06 So then last night we're like, okay, we're gonna do this again. Again, no crying. I mean, it's just like, I know. We have a perfect child. We have a perfect child. I'm sure there'll be like days in the future where she's like, no, actually what the fuck is going on.

Starting point is 00:30:20 But- I think we're gonna pay for it with our next kid. For sure. But like right now, I'm like in awe. I'm shocked. She just sleeps. Like you get to sleep in. She slept till 9 a.m. this morning.

Starting point is 00:30:31 Wow. 9 a.m. What time did she go to sleep? Seven. Seven, no eight last night. Yeah. I mean. And we give her like a dream feed at like 11.

Starting point is 00:30:41 So he was like, that way you know for sure she's not hungry. And we don't even wake, we don't pick her up, we don't wake her up. What is a dream feed? At like 11 o'clock, we make like two ounces. Don't wake her up. Yeah, you just put it in her mouth. Slam that bottle in her mouth. Oh my.

Starting point is 00:30:54 And she'll just drink it. She just drinks it sleeping? She either does or doesn't drink. Muscle memory. You kind of see what she does. But two nights in a row, she's two for two, she just guzzles that shit. While she's asleep.

Starting point is 00:31:02 Yeah, he was like, she might not drink any, she might drink an ounce, she might drink two ounce. He was like, but whatever she's two for two, she just guzzles that shit. While she's asleep. Yeah, he was like, she might not drink any, she might drink an ounce, she might drink two ounce. He was like, but whatever she's comfortable with, she'll take it. And then he was like, you don't have to burp her, you don't have to pick her up. He was like, just let her continue sleeping. Anyways, we're part of our kid.

Starting point is 00:31:15 I wonder if I would eat something in my sleep if somebody just kind of put it in my mouth. I've done it. Really? I definitely ate a pack of cookies in my sleep on the plane. Connor was just putting them in your mouth. No, like I like in my sleep must have like woken up and eaten the cookies.

Starting point is 00:31:29 And then I looked at Connor and I go, did you eat these? And he was like, absolutely not. And so it had to have been me. Oh my, or like the flight is in there. The way that Nick is staring at me right now. I'm thinking about when we went to the lake not too long ago, my mom made her homemade chocolate chip cookies and I ate like five Right and then like went to bed immediately like I brought and like I had some cookies and then I brought like two up For Natalie thinking I was gonna and she was already sleeping. So I was like, well, what can I do?

Starting point is 00:31:55 I can't like I have to eat these Like stuff my face. I've never felt more awful in my body. Like, I didn't even sleep all that well. I just felt like the sugar just oozing through my veins. I woke up so swollen and puffy. Like, I got stung by bees. It was the worst experience, well, that's exaggerating, of my life. But it wasn't great.

Starting point is 00:32:18 Like, don't, when you get to a certain age, do not stuff your mouth full of sugar and then go to bed immediately. You might die of a heart attack. Speaking of age, so I went to this place in Studio City called With Love Lenny. It's this girl who like makes custom vintage denim and like tailors it to your body.

Starting point is 00:32:39 Ooh, okay, cute, found her on Instagram. Anyway, so I go in and we're chatting it up. She's like, you know, I told her how I had like, just had a baby and whatever, and I'm like changing in front of her, right? So I'm trying on all of these jeans that she's giving me. And she's like, how long ago do you have a baby? I was like, four months.

Starting point is 00:32:57 And she was like, oh, I have an eight month old and daughter and like, you know, we're talking family, kids, life, whatever. And she's like, wow, like you really like bounced back. Your body looks great. Wait, how old are you? And I was like, I'm 25. And she was like, oh, okay, okay, okay.

Starting point is 00:33:11 Like it's definitely, she was like, I'm 31. It's like easier, whatever, when you're younger, blah, blah, blah. So she's telling me like about her husband and how like what he does. And she's like, yeah, he's like the biggest Packer fan. Like blah, so and what. And I was like, oh my god, my husband is like the biggest Packer fan So we're making these plans like hang out be besties have our kids be friends. Whatever

Starting point is 00:33:31 So then I was like how old your husband and she was like 36 and I was like, okay good She's like how old how old's your husband? Come again? She was like, sorry. She comes into the dressing room with me. Sorry, I couldn't hear you. What'd you say? Is it like the sticker shock of saying it?

Starting point is 00:33:51 I'm like, no, no, no, no. I'm like, let me just show you a photo. I'm like, I would rather show you a photo of him and then tell you hold. Guess 43's le jarring. It's a sticker shock. It's a little sticker shock. I'm like, he has a full head of hair. He has not one gray. Great skin. He has a full head of hair.

Starting point is 00:34:05 He has great skin. He has not one gray. He's ripped, great body, super, super hot. How old is he? He's hot. Don't worry about it. Don't worry, he's hot. But he's hot.

Starting point is 00:34:18 Sticker shock. Yeah. And then she was like 43. And she was like, I was like, yeah. And she was like, that's like 17. I was like, I don't know, I'm not going to mess. She was like, my in-law, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my mom, my then she was like, 43. And she was like, I was like, yeah. And she was like, that's like 17. I was like, I don't know, I'm not gonna mess.

Starting point is 00:34:27 She was like, my in-laws have the exact same age gap. And I was like, how long have they been together? And she was like, 40 years. And I was like, okay, hot. Safe space, good to know. Yeah, it's 20, 40. No, no, next time just answer the question differently. Like, oh, I'm sorry, misunderstood your question.

Starting point is 00:34:47 Oh, I'm sorry, I'll just show you a photo. A day over 36 or so? He's 36? Do you ever get to the point in your life where you just, like, people ask how old you are and you're like, damn, fuck. Cause you never feel your age. Are you asking me the age I feel?

Starting point is 00:35:02 Or the age I am, cause I don't believe that one. No, they're two completely different things. And sometimes you're like, wait, what? How old am I? Fuck. Jesus Christ. Yeah. Anytime Nick says his own age out loud, I'm like, oh my God.

Starting point is 00:35:14 It's like he turned 30 13 years ago. And it's just like crazy because we met when you were like, what, 38? Seven. Thirty. Like he was like, so like, but no, this is 40, this is a little different. But like, has an age today, so that's why I'm always like, I just need to show you a photo of him

Starting point is 00:35:35 and then we'll talk about age. And then you guess his age and then I say correct. Love this game, love this game, yes, yes, yes. All right, let's bring on Tolu. Let's bring on Tolu. Let's bring on Tolu. We are excited to be talking with you. First off, just overall, how was your experience on Perfect Match?

Starting point is 00:35:53 Are you glad you went? Actually, I'm so happy that I went because as you can see, it became a really big talking point. I was able to showcase my personality and more of who I am really, because from my first show, The Trust, I don't know if y'all watched that, it gave the villain era and I was such a sweetheart.

Starting point is 00:36:13 So I was so shocked when that first show came out because I was like, why the hell? I mean, yeah, I'm a bad bitch, but why do I look bad? But perfect match, perfect match. I feel like this truly shows the full aspect of who I am. Because I'm such a sweetheart. Yeah, you are. You seem very fun and vibrant. And I feel like we definitely got to see that side of you on Perfect Match.

Starting point is 00:36:35 How do you feel like your relationship with Dom, I guess we'll start, was portrayed? I mean, I think it was a very, very, very, very, on Perfect Match, how do you feel like your relationship with Dom, I guess we'll start, was portrayed? How do you feel watching that back? You know what's funny? I actually even feel like he got an even cleaner cut than it was in real life.

Starting point is 00:37:03 Also, tell us, say more. It was worse. Really? cut than it was in real life. Also, tell us, say more. It was worse. Really? It was 10 times worse in real life. Yeah, you know, it's funny. Not funny, haha, funny, weird. There's a running joke in the house,

Starting point is 00:37:16 like while I was matched with Dom, they were like, Ha, Tolu, Dom hates you so much. Ha ha ha, he hates you so much. And I'm like, ha ha ha. Okay, oh my God. Tolu, much. And I'm like, ah. Okay, oh my God. Tolu, correct me if I'm wrong, but I've never been a Dom fan

Starting point is 00:37:29 since last year of Perfect Match. He strikes me, and you've met him, I've never met him in person, but on TV he strikes me as the emo secret fuck boy, where he tries to be the guy who's in touch with his feelings and really presents as soft and demure and sensitive and the end of the day he's just like another fuck boy. Is that accurate or inaccurate?

Starting point is 00:37:53 Nick, oh my gosh, I just feel like you you read him like a book. You read him almost as well as I did. That is him like 100 percent. So when look at him, when you look at his online presence, from my perspective, again, I can only speak as Tolu, from Tolu, when you look at his online presence, he gives very much like, oh, yeah, feminist, you know, women's rights, I love women, I wear female clothes because I'm so in touch with my masculinity. And it's a lot of fem-baiting, a lot of fear baiting.

Starting point is 00:38:26 And then when you meet him in real life, it's like you are nothing like this online persona that you try to give off. You and you claim, I don't know, online to me, he claims to be like, you know, fun, sweet. I'm, people never choose me. I'm so sad, but you know, I'm always here. But then in real life, it's like, it's not a matter of people never choose me, I'm so sad, but you know, I'm always here. But then in real life, it's like, it's not a matter of people never choose you, it's a matter of you don't even allow yourself the openness to just be personable at all.

Starting point is 00:38:56 Like the emo shake, he's got that down, but it's even more inflamed in real life. Or if you're an individual that he just doesn't want to have any kind of, like, I don't want to say he just doesn't want to deal with in general, because in the house, the only person he really spoke with was Harry. For the rest of us, it was just like, I, we like, I likened him to Eeyore, like just sad, doom and gloom. And you know, I would give Winnie the pooh like,

Starting point is 00:39:26 hey guys, what's up? And I would just be like, trying to preserve my social battery. Can you not talk to me right now? No. Okay. Like how is it behind the closed doors? Like when you matched and you went to bed,

Starting point is 00:39:38 like what were the vibes? What was the energy? The vibes were so, and that's what I'm talking about. So y'all, I really wish that they had shown the scene after we go into the room, after we match that first thing and we go into the room. Because literally, when I saw you, when the doors closed and the cameras left,

Starting point is 00:39:55 I felt like I was with a stranger because he became just completely... Um, what's the word that I could describe this? He just became completely shut out and shut off. Like it was, okay, cool. I did what I had to do. The cameras are gone. Don't talk to me.

Starting point is 00:40:11 I won't talk to you. Just sit. And so we would just be in the room, just awkward silence. And then I was just trying to sleep, you know, so that I can go to sleep, wake up. It's a new day. I can leave.

Starting point is 00:40:26 We were sleeping on complete opposite sides of the bed. The bed couldn't even be further, like it couldn't be freaking further away. If I was any further away from the bed, I'd be sleeping on the floor. Who is the biggest fuck boy in the house right now? Like right now at season, I mean at episode six, I would say.

Starting point is 00:40:43 Or just like in life that you've gotten to know. Oh that I've gotten to know? Oh, that's Harry. When Dom was like all in his feelings and kind of feeling sorry for himself about like this is all bullshit and no one loves me and blah blah blah. Which time? Yeah. Well the time when he outed Harry for like not coming here for the quote unquote right

Starting point is 00:41:04 reasons. I feel like he was speaking truth and just not being a friend to Harry. And he was just being selfish and only thinking about himself. Like, I don't think he gets credit for like being a guy's girl and protecting Jess. I think he was just being a bad friend to Harry,

Starting point is 00:41:19 even though he did like let out Harry's secret. Did you see it that way? Like it seems like, you know, Harry's talk about wanting to be there to find his wife, he's, I don't know, watching it back, you seeing him crying in front of Jess and all this, what do you make of that? Is Harry as manipulative as he's coming across or is he getting a bad at it?

Starting point is 00:41:40 Oh no, no, no, I think Harry, don't get me wrong. Harry, overall, I feel like he's a good guy. He's a decent guy. But when it comes to being in relationships, no, that was 100% like a classic manipulative tactic. It was giving, oh, you're upset with me about something, so I'm gonna cry and flip it around so that now you have to console me. You have to feel bad. You have to seek my forgiveness

Starting point is 00:42:05 for making me sad." And Jess fell right into that trap. And then Donnie wasn't lying. You know, a drunk man doesn't tell no tales. That man was, he was liquored up because he already knew that his ass was more than likely going to be out. So while he was a little tipsy, he let the truth slip out and say, yeah, well, you're not here for the right reasons, because he knew he wasn't here for the right reasons either. He was trying to be like a Harry 2.0, right? But he just doesn't have the finesse to pull off a Harry like Harry does, like maybe you're Dom. Stick to being Dom, go cry in a corner somewhere,

Starting point is 00:42:37 and like, that's what you do really well, do that. But Harry, so when he said all of that, like it was giving like, oh snap, I shouldn't have said that. I said the truth by accident. Okay, let me backpedal and make it seem like, no, I'm just speaking in general. No, no, no, no, no. You were speaking exactly what you said.

Starting point is 00:42:56 What makes Harry a good guy? Harry was personally a good guy to me, but I say that Harry is a good guy because like, he's a sweet dude. He's caring, he's charming, but in relationships he's just a huge, huge fuckboy. Like let's be honest about that. But like in a friendship level, I would say he is a good friend, but as far as like how he treats women he's romantically with or women that are romantically interested in him, it's a completely different Harry

Starting point is 00:43:27 that you get. I was privileged and honored to not be interacted with him in a romantic way in any capacity. So I was able to see both sides of him. I saw how he interact romantically and I saw how he interacted just regular. If you ran out of gas, do you think Harry would bring you gas? Or help you change a tire?

Starting point is 00:43:47 I think he would. Okay. I don't know if he can change a tire, but he'll pay someone to do it for him. To me, Harry the one we're seeing on TV, I think he's worse than a fuckboy. I feel like a fuckboy, like Kaz. Kaz is just like, you know, he's like,

Starting point is 00:44:01 yeah, I'm hot, I'm young, I like to fuck, whatever. He's not presenting as someone who's more serious about relationships than he really is. And I think that's kind of dangerous, right? Because when you're dating out there and you're reading the signals of the person you're going after a la Jess, who clearly seems to be focused on finding

Starting point is 00:44:21 a long-term relationship, he's using the link. He knows what Jess wants to hear. You know, where I feel like a fuckboy a la Kaz or whatever, it's like, yeah, maybe he's a fuckboy, but he's not being deceitful or lying or saying things he doesn't mean, where Harry seems clearly willing to just speak bullshit as long as he thinks you're gonna eat it up.

Starting point is 00:44:43 And to me, that's worse than a fuckboy. It's like a player It's like someone who's just He's willing to fuck up your feelings for his own benefit Or I don't feel I feel like Kaz is kind of like if he thinks you're really into him I feel like he's a type of guy who would actually pull back because you know He just wants to fuck around and at least he's upfront about that. I don't know. What's your read on that? Tolu I agree with you, but I feel like it's switched I feel like Kaz is a player in the sense of like, you know, if if there's a toy you'll play with it a little bit

Starting point is 00:45:12 Right, but here he is a fuckboy in the sense of this dude will fuck your mind like boy He will fuck you Like when you're when you are romantically involved with Harry in any capacity, he's going to say, he's emotionally in tuned enough to know what you want to hear and say it in your exact language to get you to, you know, let down those guards, feel vulnerable to kind of get you to, to make those certain actions that he wants you to, right?

Starting point is 00:45:42 Like for example, we saw that when he started crying so that Jess can now start consoling him. Whereas I feel like a player is like, like this is fuck boy, this is player. Right, I'm the player. I kind of switch them up, yeah. That's just a naming difference, but like, yeah. In terms of forgetting about titles,

Starting point is 00:45:58 we're on the same page in terms of like the difference between kind of like a Harry's methods and versus like a Kaz. But that's what I say. I'm like, Harry, and here's my thing. I feel like Harry is not secretive about it. It's not a secret. It's a well-known thing.

Starting point is 00:46:14 That's why as soon as I saw him, I said, oh no. Boy, Harry, which really hurt his feelings, because it's not a secret. So I feel like also, as women, when you recognize who this person is and they're telling you who they are, take them at face value. Believe them the first time.

Starting point is 00:46:31 Harry has never hidden the fact that he's a fuck boy. You're right, he is honest about it. Like Harry's whole thing is to kind of like in a very charming way laugh about like how shitty he is to women. Like in this episode, he's like bragging about smashing some of these girls. He's talking about other guys cream pying. He's like, I...

Starting point is 00:46:49 That's like, that was disgusting. Just like the way he talks about women and he does it with like a laugh or he's just like, I don't know better, you know? And I think people weirdly eat it up. But when he's talking to people he's interested in, a la Jess, he's not upfront. He eat it up, but when he's talking to people he's interested in, a la Jess, he's not upfront.

Starting point is 00:47:07 He acts like a victim, as if he's like, people like, they judge me. It's just like, they're not judging you. You openly talk about how shitty you are to people, and you're expecting people to like, give you like an infinite amount of chances to change, and not like judge you for your past. It's like, we all have to be judged for our past.

Starting point is 00:47:26 And then we have to earn, I love how Kaz had a great line. He's like, it takes a lifetime to earn trust and seconds to break it, you know? And here Harry is, is this over and over showing how he shouldn't be trusted and expecting people overnight to give him the benefit of the doubt and acting like a victim when no one does.

Starting point is 00:47:44 And I'm just like perplexed how how how people fall for it it's it's incredible. I know why people fall for it. I was like it's the accent is because he's tall because the blue eyes because because when you said that to him he acted as if you made this up like that you were like oh fuck boy Harry and he's like how how could you say this about me and it's like every headline, babe. Like we know your date. I know more about his dating life than I've ever against my will.

Starting point is 00:48:10 Like, you know, so I'm like. He was literally just coming off of the whole Georgia breakup drama like two months before or a month before we were filming. So it was, you were already in, like that was all people were talking about was how you were a fuck-boy to Georgia. Yeah, have you, I don't know how close you are with the girls today.

Starting point is 00:48:31 I mean, have you talked to Holly about that comment he made, about how he banged her and then how Stephen Cream pied her? Like, how, first of all, like, so vulgar, but like, how fucking dare you? When I tell you, my jaw was to the floor when I vulgar, but like, how fucking dare you? When I tell you my jaw was to the floor when I watched that, you know, it's like, and then they cut to they cut to Holly. I was like, you know what these boys are saying about me, but it's not true.

Starting point is 00:48:54 Wink, I said, girl, no, you really don't. You don't. You don't. Yeah. I really fall for. I haven't spoken to Holly since then, but like that was, that was the worst line of the entire, entire season so far. That one was just like the others, I was like, okay, Harry,

Starting point is 00:49:11 you're showing your ass, you love to show your ass. Like we already know that about you, but that specific line, that specific scene I said, that it's beyond vulgar, it's beyond uncalled for. It's just- It's like, you know what Harry thinks of women in that moment, like as objects. Truly. Yeah, it's beyond uncalled for. It's just- It's like you know what Harry thinks of women in that moment, like his audience. Truly.

Starting point is 00:49:28 Yeah, he's just- Also, I would love to get your opinion on why he made so many comments about Melinda's boob job. Oh, yeah. Did you catch that, where he kept being like, you got him done. Yes! Like, why?

Starting point is 00:49:42 Did you catch Jess' face? Yeah, yeah. Jess is like- She looks so uncomfortable. It was so weird. I don't know if they're like super close and maybe like that was okay for him to say, but as a viewer, you know, like it felt really weird.

Starting point is 00:49:55 Have you checked in with Jess at all? Yeah, I've spoken to Jess. I think that with that whole thing, like going back to what you said, Harry, really because he has like this Australian accent and he's tall and all his hands are charming, he has the male pretty privileged to be able to get away with this. Kind of like how, you know, Simon Cowell can be an asshole, but he says it in a British accent. Everybody's like, oh, Simon

Starting point is 00:50:20 Cowell, yeah. Like, so I think it's giving that kind of aesthetic, but at the same time, like the issue with, the situation with him and Melinda, let me just tell y'all, that was just the tip of the iceberg of everything. These next few episodes that drop will really put that scene into perspective. Melinda did comment, respond to a comment on a post saying,

Starting point is 00:50:44 probably the worst human being on this planet, and you're about to see why in a few days. So she's talking about Harry? Harry, yeah. Do you support Melinda in that tweet? I want you guys to watch the next few episodes because everything that we're saying, it just, it shines a big, brand spotlight on it.

Starting point is 00:51:04 So let me ask, yeah, like, I know you kind of already alluded to it. So when we watch these next batch of episodes, specifically whatever happens between Harry and Melinda, you're telling us that if anyone's here to blame the edit or say that's not that bad or yada, yada, yada, are you telling us it's it is that bad or maybe even worse? I haven't seen the edit myself, but in real life, it was bad and it was worse.

Starting point is 00:51:27 So whatever the edit is, it's worse than that. It's probably going to be worse than that. Not even going to lie. Oh shit. Well, damn. I know I'm on the edge of my seat. I already know what happens, but I'm like, damn, I want to see it. How's it going to play out? People will be talking. After what you've experienced with Dom and going on a date with him I'm on the edge of my seat. I already know what happens, but I'm like, damn, I wanna see it. How's it gonna play out?

Starting point is 00:51:45 People will be talking. After what you've experienced with Dom and going on a date with him and then his full 180, did it make you regret your decision about Izzy sending him home or do you still feel confident about that? No, I regretted my decision literally after we matched when the doors closed and he was like,

Starting point is 00:52:03 I need to preserve my social battery. In that moment I said, I up oh because what people don't understand is Izzy and I's matching it we we match as friends we matched by default because there was nobody in the house that was attracted to me nobody in the house wanted me so Izzy and I and Izzy too, he was trying to go for Micah. Micah ended up matching with um seven at the time. So he didn't have any girl in the house either. So the two of us just came together you know all headed Houston hotties and we matched. But it wasn't like uh he had a romantic interest in me. You know? So when I went on that date with Dong he was in I so wish that they showed more of the first date so that y'all could really get the full perspective.

Starting point is 00:52:49 Because I had so many comments online, they're like, girl, you should have known, you're so dumb. Why would you go for him? He obviously doesn't want you. I was like, no, no, no, it's obvious he doesn't want me after the first date. Y'all did not see that very first date and everything that he was saying, the energy that he that he was giving was giving me nothing but green signs was calling me beautiful oh my gosh your vibe is so amazing I feel like we're on the same wavelength we connect I haven't been I haven't been able to talk to somebody like this like he was I'm not I'm not an idiot I'm not a stupid girl I promise you y'all know that I'm not a stupid girl so this dude is telling me all of these things from his mouth and

Starting point is 00:53:23 his actions seem to also be be matching So I'm like, okay. Look, I don't have anybody in the house who's Roman who's interested in me romantically I didn't come here to do friendship match. I came here to find my perfect match You know, I would love to so this dude was saying that he's willing to give it a chance from me I was like, yeah, like let's give it a shot So that's why I gave Dom that, that's why I matched with Dom on the first night. But then after everything went down, I was like,

Starting point is 00:53:51 I fucked up because I realized that I've been played as a goofy. He played a game and used me to get into this house. And I would have much rather, much rather stayed with Izzy, who actually was a sweet, kind guy and a really good friend to me. And who knows? It could have grown into something more because at least Izzy was giving it a shot. Yeah. You know, he was like, he was trying with me. Whereas Dom, as soon as he matched with me, he was like, all right, cool. I'm in the house. What do I do next? You don't talk to me. My social

Starting point is 00:54:21 battery is low. Get the fuck out of my face. How is it being matched with Chris? Because I feel like the Chris match was kind of unexpected on my end. And then also he references a lot of sexual chemistry is ITMs. Yeah. So being matched with Chris, it was that that was a plot twist for me, too. I truly wasn't expecting that because Chris and I were friends. So when I actually gave him that dare, I wanted him to have the opportunity to like, yeah, you know what, friend, go shoot your shot at whatever girl, whatever girl you're trying to holler at.

Starting point is 00:54:50 Go shoot your shot at her. Not knowing that she was me. So I was completely taken aback. And like we had throughout the throughout the entire experience from when he came, you know, he had the big drama with Brighton, Dominique. And then it was just, it was a lot, it was a hot ass mess. So Chris and I, like, and I too was in a hot ass mess. So we would just always be on the couch in the living room, just talking like about our situations,

Starting point is 00:55:14 about what's going on. And he was more of like a, he was more of an adult too, in the sense of like, we would be in the kitchen washing everybody's dishes, like everybody would just be in the kitchen, they would drop their dishes. And it would literally be me and Chris in the sense of like, we would be in the kitchen washing everybody's dishes. Like everybody would just be in the kitchen, they would drop their dishes, and it would literally be me and Chris in the kitchen just washing dishes. I'll be like, you wanna wash today and I'll rinse? Yeah, you wanna rinse today and I'll wash? Yeah, so that's how we connected.

Starting point is 00:55:34 And so after he gave me the lap dance and made it known that like, hey, look, he's interested in me as more than a friend, at first I was like, okay, this is really convenient timing. But then at the same time, I couldn't deny the fact that like we get on really well, he's really sweet. And like, I even thought about it, I was like, I've had such a hell time.

Starting point is 00:55:57 I wanna be around a dude that like, would actually be willing to, not only just try with me, but at least be kind. To tell you the dom literally said the bar is nice to me. The bar is so low. The bar was, can you please just be nice? You're like, I just want someone to be nice. It's so bad.

Starting point is 00:56:17 Oh my gosh. I literally just want someone to look me in the eye and smile and not roll their eyes if I even breathe or blink in their direction. But no, my match with Chris was actually really sweet and he was really caring. And what really made me like like him more was because we matched while I was still sick.

Starting point is 00:56:35 I was really sick when Melinda came in the house. That's why you don't see me talking too much and I look miserable. Yes, I was sad because he brought in fucking Melinda, but also like I was sick. I was miserable So after we matched that night like acts of service is my number one love language and Chris knows that so we went to bed And he was like, okay, you're really sick. What do you need? Let me go make you some tea because he knows I love tea

Starting point is 00:56:56 So he would go make me some tea. He would go to the medic and go get me some medicine He would bring that to bed for me. He like here you go. Do you need a blanket? He's notoriously hot. Like he's a Jersey boy. He's always hot, but I'm always cold. And that was the defining moment. I was like, I'm really cold. Do you think we can sleep without the fan tonight? He's like, yeah, of course.

Starting point is 00:57:15 I'll turn off the AC. Turns off the AC, no fan on, keeps sweating. I know he's hot, but I'm just like, I feel so safe and so comfortable. And that's the scene that y'all see in the bed where I'm just like, this is unlikely, but like. Good on Chris, I wish they would show more moments like that. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:57:33 It's stuff like that. Like you can tell like, you know, hearing that story, like Chris seems like a solid guy, you know? Like, yeah, he said some boneheaded things and yada yada. Ugh, such a douchey mouth, but like he is a kind person. But you know, his heart seems to be in a really, in the right place. Well, thank you for sharing that story.

Starting point is 00:57:51 Him asking if the twin, if they're like biological. Or genuine. Genuineity, genuinity. Genuinity. I mean, I make up some words sometimes, whatever. I said, y'all not too much on him. They asked me about that in the professionals. I said, y'all not too much on him. They asked me about that in the professionals. I said, y'all look, leave him alone.

Starting point is 00:58:08 Okay, not too much on him, he's pretty. Sometimes smart people say stupid things. And he sweated it out for you. So, you know, thank you so much for taking the time. Best of luck the rest of the way. We're definitely rooting for you. It's been really fun watching you on the show and excited to see more. Thank you guys. Thank you so much. Bye.

Starting point is 00:58:28 What a sweetheart. She's lovely. Very interesting, you know, behind the scenes from her. Yeah. Yeah. I like Chris a lot more now. I will say Tolu had a similar take with you for Cira and Wes. Yeah, if somebody shows you who they are, believe them. Ah, yes, yes. Nice little segue. Before we get to West, it's time for West Wilson. I anticipated people not totally agreeing with our takes from Reality Recap on Tuesday.

Starting point is 00:58:54 What were some of the criticisms we received? Some of the criticisms that Sierra gave Weston out and he had every opportunity to take that out and didn't. Yeah. I guess my point is not, like this, as I said last week, this isn't a West versus Sierra discussion for me. That's not, I'm not trying to debate

Starting point is 00:59:16 if West is less than the wrong versus Sierra. I think, like I said before, as you will hear momentarily, us asking questions about Wes's views on relationships and the issues he has with commitment. But this is a show, if you listen to Monday's Ask Nick, this is a show where we talk a lot about relationships. And this is coming from POV as someone myself who has let people lead me on,

Starting point is 00:59:43 who have given people more chances than I thought they deserved, where I led with my ego. And we're always looking at ways to hold ourselves accountable. And I'm just pointing out that from Sierra's standpoint, Justin was always saying on Tuesday, well, Sierra keeps saying she's different,

Starting point is 01:00:00 Sierra keeps saying she's different. It's like we always like to say how different we are all the time but our actions often say otherwise. And so when Sierra says I'm different I only hook up with guys in relationships and then Wes says well well I know you want a relationship but how about instead I take you to a wedding or I introduce to my parents and I get it I know that can be misleading. I get it, you know, and like that's where West has some maybe growing up to do, and again, being more protective

Starting point is 01:00:30 of people's emotions when they're not like seeing things clearly. But like, in terms of how, you know, Sierra was at the reunion kind of talking about as if like there's nothing she could have done different. It's like, well, I give you, to me, her giving me out, we always talk about maintaining our power. Well, that's, that's Sierra giving West control of the situation. You decide whether you

Starting point is 01:00:52 want to date, I can't do anything about it. Like, Sierra has agency and she has a choice. And yes, we can criticize West all we want. I'm just answering it from the perspective of, if you're Sierra, isn't it more empowering to think you played yourself Than someone else played you you know I know it's easier to feel like I got played But wouldn't you rather realize I could have done something different Like I would rather think I played myself then and we're all talking about West You know everyone on the internet is talking about how he's this little this average guy You know we're talking about looks as if like you know West has become the poster boy of maybe there's more important things

Starting point is 01:01:25 than looks, type of thing. Where it's just like, but wouldn't we want for Sierra to think that she played herself rather than she got played by a guy like West? I don't think so. I mean, if it were me, I would want it to be more, like I think that if I were Sierra, I would be like, I did everything I could because I gave West that out.

Starting point is 01:01:46 So you would rather believe that was everything you could have done rather than realizing that you could have done more? Isn't it more empowering to be like, you know what? I could have not accepted less than what I wanted. I'm sure she's kicking herself for being with him and not seeing some of the red flags, but I think when you're in a relationship with someone.

Starting point is 01:02:06 She wasn't in a relationship with him. But she felt like she was because he was giving her, he was giving her green flags. He was taking, she said, she told him her rules and he went with them. She's like, if we have sex, if you're taking me home to your family, that to me is a relationship.

Starting point is 01:02:23 We don't know if that's what she said. We don't know if that conversation happened. It's implied. It's implied from the horseback riding date. I mean, again, I'm not saying Wes is wrong. I am just speaking from the point of view that we can argue all we want back and forth. And I'm not seeing this as a gender thing.

Starting point is 01:02:43 Or it's just like, I'm just seeing it as, when you, you know, or it's just like I'm just seeing it as When you enforce when you set a boundary it's up to us to enforce it and all day long We can point the finger and we can blame other people I'm just saying like see if you if you identify with Sierra's situation, which I have in the past Like things won't change for the better until you start just looking at what you can do and then when you stop accepting less than you deserve, you know, a la like an invitation to a wedding rather than commitment, then you will like Sierra will continue to be disappointed in her relationships if she continues to go after the men who say I'm not ready for a relationship. She just, like

Starting point is 01:03:23 that's nuts, it's everyone. We all, like, you know, my life changed when I stopped doing that. And I'm just speaking from that point of view. Not like, I'm not criticizing Sierra and saying she's wrong versus Wes. I'm just saying like, this is what she could have done differently. You're not denying the fact that Wes

Starting point is 01:03:38 has a lot to work on too. Yeah, I mean, you'll hear it in the entire episode. I think that it's not an excuse to say, I'm a fuck boy, so that you can be a fuck boy. No. Like it doesn't make it better. No, it's the entire episode. I think that it's not an excuse to say, I'm a fuck boy so that you can be a fuck boy. No. Like it doesn't make it better. No, it's like, yeah, it's like, if I'm telling you like, yeah, I lie a lot.

Starting point is 01:03:53 That's not like, Oh yeah. It's like okay that you lie. Exactly, it's not like okay that I then go lie all the time. This is the perspective that I operate on, cause I'm like, even if he was being honest the whole season, he's not abdicated from the fact that he made her feel that way. Again I think Wes has a lot to be accountable for. This is not in verses for me. This is like what could Ciara to have done differently

Starting point is 01:04:16 because she showed up to the reunion acting like there is nothing more she could have done differently to protect her own heart and I think there's a lot more she could have done differently to protect her own heart. And I think there's a lot more she could have done differently. I feel like Leo's saying the present tense of how Sierra feels, and I think you're more so saying the hindsight. Yeah. To where you're like, when you take yourself out of it, this is what it looks like,

Starting point is 01:04:35 and this is what she's saying while you're in it. Yeah. So you both are right. I'm not saying Sierra doesn't have the right to be upset. Of course she has the right to be upset. No. It's just, it's- Yeah, because I think everybody wants to be the person who's gonna change the fuck to be upset. You know, it's just, it's... Learn from your mistakes.

Starting point is 01:04:45 Yeah, because I think everybody wants to be the person who's gonna change the fuckboy's mind. And in that situation, Sierra probably felt that she was gonna be that girl who was going to set West out of his fuckboy ways. We've seen the previews for the reunion part two that airs tonight. Sierra being asked if she would consider a future with West and she seems to basically say she's still open to it. And I'm thinking after everything she said

Starting point is 01:05:11 and everything she's experienced with West, why? And the why is because if West is willing to change for her and commit for her, it will make her feel special, which we all like to get picked, I get it. We all like to like go for something that we can't have. And it sure seemed like watching the season that Sierra liked West more and more

Starting point is 01:05:30 the less he liked her. And we all have a pattern of pursuing what we can't have. And chasing. How exhausting. And it's just like, that is not the recipe for finding a good, that's a recipe for filling your ego. I think it's a lot of how we've all been brought up

Starting point is 01:05:47 with film and TV, where oftentimes the storyline is there's a guy who's a bit of a dick. Down and out. The hot jock in high school who's a fuck boy, and then this girl comes in with glasses usually, and she. Preferably meek and nothing in common. And she changes him, and then this girl comes in with glasses usually and she preferably meek and nothing in common and she changes him and then her glasses fall off some she's two ways over that. Listen there's a whole book written about this stuff it's called Don't Text Derek Happy Birthday.

Starting point is 01:06:15 Yay! Oh I've heard of that! Anyways I think it's time to get to West Wilson. Please continue to comment and tell us how wrong we are. We enjoy the feedback, we enjoy the discourse, we appreciate you all listening. Now, before we get to West, just a couple quick notes. One, we actually did this interview with West before we saw Reunion Part One. And so while we were aware of the situation between him and Sierra, we didn't know some of these specific questions he was asked at the reunion, so we don't really address

Starting point is 01:06:45 his performance at the reunion. But we certainly do address his relationship with Sierra, his relationship choices, his lack of emotional maturity, all that and more, which we get to a lot of post-texting office hours. In fact, we also picked the texting office hours that we thought would be appropriate for West. And we use the first half of the conversation

Starting point is 01:07:06 just to kind of get to know the guy because he's new to Bravo World. So just kind of setting some upfront expectations for other people who want to dive right into his relationship choices. Just setting the table for the interview. So without further ado, West Wilson. Zoa, you've got to check out Zoa,

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Starting point is 01:08:34 We've got our stainless steel. We've got our ceramic set as well. Listen, they're easy to cook on and they're easy to clean. So it's great for Nick because he loves to cook and it's great for me because I hate cleaning and it's so easy to clean. So it's great for Nick because he loves to cook and it's great for me because I hate cleaning and it's so easy to clean. And you have the peace of mind knowing that Caroway is made with non-toxic materials.

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Starting point is 01:11:29 Visit vessi.com slash V-I-A-L-L and find the perfect blend of style and practicality in shoes designed for urban getaways and enjoy in an instant 15% off your first order at checkout. West. Welcome. That's okay.

Starting point is 01:11:44 I almost jumped a gun. I did what did you want? Do you want to say something I was gonna ask Natalie if I looked okay right before we start. Oh No wrinkles have Yeah, okay great great great great great great. You look fine now. We're good. You look great start over now. No no West hello Thank you for having me I'm good. I coffee, pee right here, which tells you how I'm really doing, but I'm great.

Starting point is 01:12:11 I'm happy to be in LA, honestly. I like trees. Glad for being honest. Yeah. I like trees. You're saying the trees are in LA? There are palm trees around. Okay.

Starting point is 01:12:22 I just like to, I was talking to Nick earlier, I like to drive and if I'm here, I'll rent a car and just like, and just trees around. I just like to, I was talking to Nick earlier, I like to drive, and if I'm here I'll rent a car and just drive around. Where have you been driving? A lot of sunset. Yeah. Well, I had to get in the valley this morning, and Maps has taken me a different route every time,

Starting point is 01:12:37 and this one was windier than a bitch. Through the canyon. Yeah. Did you get sick? No, I think if I was passenger in the back, would have been yuck. Yeah, nightmare. But driving is okay.

Starting point is 01:12:48 Uber is like a no-go when you're going over the, yeah. Could not. That's the worst place to be hung over, in my opinion. Back of an Uber. Or I guess an airplane maybe, but you can sleep. Do you sleep on a plane? Yeah, I'm pretty skilled, actually. Really?

Starting point is 01:13:03 One time, the stewardess woke me up. You can ball up and a little, what's your position? I like to go window. Okay. Bring a hoodie as like a hello. Sure. And ideally it kinda depends how you get the wind,

Starting point is 01:13:16 you know how if you get the ridge of a window, you lose like three inches, but if you get the window you can go in more. Sure. And just tuck the hoodie right in there and just kind of like, oh, just fall asleep. But as I say, one time the stewardess woke me up, plane was empty and she was like,

Starting point is 01:13:31 sir, you have to get off the plane. You didn't wake up to like, we're landing. No. Wow. Snoozed. You must have been out. That must have been a graceful land on that pilot's back. Yeah, shout out to the pilot.

Starting point is 01:13:41 Shout out to the pilot. Good guy, great guy. Oh my God. He's an impressive, were you hungover then? No, I feel like I'm hungover, I don't sleep well. Yeah. Like I wake up early when I'm, no. What'd you ask?

Starting point is 01:13:55 If I had narcolepsy. No, I just think I'm okay at just going to sleep when I need to, you know what I mean? Yeah. Mine used to be. You listen to your body. Yeah, yeah. Mine used to be tray table down That's good like like like school. You gotta talk a little when I whenever I'd fall asleep

Starting point is 01:14:11 I've never done that since college because I can't fall asleep, but I'll get like a stomach ache I'll get a little gassy. Oh my gosh like almost like an air bubble if I lean forward like this It's just like but I bet you know like a Like a burp real, letting that thing out probably and then you go right to bed, that'd be nice. It's a soothing burp, for sure. Can I ask you a question? Yeah. Who farted first in front of the other one?

Starting point is 01:14:32 Oh my God, he liked it the fuck. Really? Oh my God, and then he'll be like, what? What? Excuse me? Oh, that's awesome. He'll be like, it's River. I'm like, our daughter.

Starting point is 01:14:42 Blaming the baby. I've never admitted to anything. Oh, he has absolutely never admitted to your daughter's an all-time move A child who can't defend themselves. She's only four months and she rips fart It smells like whiskey and steak and you're like dude River has been acting so crazy That's unreal yeah, it's pretty I feel like I can do that until she can I don't do any of that Yeah, once you can't speak she's gonna be like it was never me I Saw you fucking heard you the whole time. I think lying on my fucking name dad. I

Starting point is 01:15:18 Can speak at the time but now yeah? She's gonna start blaming me for hers. I've asked you should Dad yeah, dad shit in my pants Shit my neighbor put it back on me blamed it on me. What's up? This guy's unreal imagine if your kid was like joking at school and said that shit We need you to come into the office. Did you shit in your daughter's pants? Oh my God.

Starting point is 01:15:51 Child services immediately. That is brutal. That was a great question. Yeah, that was good. Do you, how does that work for you? I try to like, I keep it cool for a little bit, but I'm not gonna like in a stomach ache over it You know you're not gonna hold it into the point where you're I'll try if it Sam like under the covers with someone I'll try to like both arms down and like lock it in

Starting point is 01:16:19 touch oven Myself though, so they don't know yeah, and I'm like oh for 250 Myself though so they don't know. And I'm like oh for 250 on those. Everyone knows. We need a new technique. This is not fucking working. Yeah that one doesn't work. Do you lift the cheek?

Starting point is 01:16:32 If I can't, yeah. Well you have to, kinda. What is that? It's for air purposes I feel like. I don't really think it does anything. This is like an alarming conversation because Nick is like anti talking about poop, farts, burps, anything. if I like bring it up he's like

Starting point is 01:16:47 Stop that's not that's an exaggeration Yeah, I don't lead with it though. I was actually talking to someone the other day about how She's like do you have to shit your pants? I'm like, what are you talking about? Jesus Christ woman like No, but River does this. Yeah. You should check River's diaper. I gotta go. That's crazy.

Starting point is 01:17:10 No, I don't like lead with it. I don't run away from it either. But I was talking to someone the other day about, do you know any couples who like kind of make it their personality? That they're like cool with it? That's annoying. I acknowledge that everyone poops. Right.

Starting point is 01:17:22 It's fine. I don't think we need to talk about it. I don't think we need to make a meal out of it. And I don't think we need to embrace it and make it our identity. It makes romance tougher if you lean into it that crazy. Especially if you're like a butt stuff guy. It's like, oh, check off the toilet.

Starting point is 01:17:33 Look at what I do. Holy shit. Yeah. We're the same page there. Yeah, okay, that's good. Good intro. I think you need to ask the question. Oh.

Starting point is 01:17:44 What's the question? Oh, God. The typical Valfal files question. Oh, how's your heart? H e a r t heart. Yeah, it's cool. What else? Health wise or what's your cholesterol? It's a It's beating quick. No, it's good hearts good. Do you ask everyone that everyone? Everyone. That's kinda, I bet someone could answer that for fucking hours. Well, no one really takes the bait, to be honest. You know, it's a, I used to start,

Starting point is 01:18:10 it used to be my first question, just hot and heavy. A lot of people would kinda, oh, it's good. They'd be like, it's good. It's fine, it's fine, it's good. It's good, everything's fine. I'm newish to Bravo. I'm, and this is my first season

Starting point is 01:18:23 of watching every episode of Summer House. You're new. I don't know shit about anything Bravo at all. That's what I'm like. Yeah, I don't know anything. Do you? How did you get out? Not necessarily. I actually met Lindsay out.

Starting point is 01:18:35 Lindsay? Yeah. Lindsay got you out. Yeah, and I, so. Has anyone thanked Lindsay for this? She's given me a lot of steam this season. I feel like the internet needs to. I'll tell her thank you. We should at least give her a little something.

Starting point is 01:18:47 Thank you, Lindsay, love you. So how did that happen? She just saw you out? Dude, so we were at a, also I'm trying to make sure I get back to make eye contact with you, but I'm. That's okay, no you can. No, this is everyone here.

Starting point is 01:18:59 You can look at the ground for all I care. I was out at a dinner. This is it. This is it. I was out at a dinner. I was out at dinner. I was out at dinner and I think I had a hinge date like 30 minutes after or something. And I went to the bar of the restaurant to like fuck around until kill time before I met up with this girl. And Lindsay was there and I don't know,, we started talking, had a shot or two, and a drink, and just kinda like,

Starting point is 01:19:29 we were fucking around. And we were both, not wasted, but drunk, and first people to ever be drunk and come up with a podcast idea at the bar. Oh, groundbreaking. Worst thing ever, but it was a sports idea, and she was like, whenever you, I was working at Bleacher Report at the time, and she was like, you know, whenever you, I was working at Bleacher Report at the time

Starting point is 01:19:45 and she was like, don't take this to them, this is my idea, it was actually a very Lindsay thing. Like I signed a fucking contract on a bar napkin, a lot happened in 30 minutes. She wrote her podcast pitch on a bar napkin and like made me sign it that I wouldn't take it to Bleacher Report and use it. That's insane.

Starting point is 01:20:03 No, yeah, but sick PR move, business move. And so then I got laid it to Bleacher Report and use it. That's insane. No, yeah, but sick PR move, business move. And so then I got laid off from Bleacher Report right before Christmas, 2022. Cause they're like, give us the idea. I signed a napkin. Just behind the camera, Lindsay had a gun to my head and I was like, I guess I'll resign. She's like, what's your plan?

Starting point is 01:20:27 So that happened and I think I texted her jokingly like, ha ha, we can do our podcast now, I got laid off. And I think that was while they were casting and she was like, oh, you guys should call this dude. And then they did, but she didn't tell me. And I got a phone call and I was like, oh, I think I know someone on the show. And they were like, you fucking idiot, like that's how we found you, dumbass. And I was like, oh, I think I know someone the show and they were like You fucking idiot like that's how we found you

Starting point is 01:20:47 And I was like, oh that makes sense and then we just kind of went from there But I was unemployed at the time and I just I had no reason to you know, not entertain this idea So did you didn't know really anyone? No You were just fresh meat dude raw dogged it. I also thought, I was like, I could watch all these seasons, but then I feel like I'd start to paint people a certain way in my head, and I was like, let's just freestyle this bitch. Yeah, there's nothing worse than like someone

Starting point is 01:21:15 coming into like a reality TV atmosphere, and like. And giving off fans. And giving off fan energy, and like saying things that you're just like, well how would you say that? That's not a normal thing anyone would say, you know? But people on reality TV do say a lot of things that normal're just like, well how would you say that? That's not a normal thing anyone would say. But people on reality TV do say a lot of things that normal people wouldn't say. Sure.

Starting point is 01:21:30 Which is crazy. But yeah, if you gave fan energy to the cast, it would be different for you. Obviously the big criticism of The Bachelor, about Trenton now is that everyone does it not for the right reasons. No, it's gotten less and less fun to watch because it's an influencing farmer system.

Starting point is 01:21:47 Do you feel like that show could survive without, that's like the one reality TV show that I find actually kind of entertaining. Just because I think the formula is the exact same and then just seeing it play out the way you know it's gonna is kind of funny and fun. This is the week they say they're falling in love. They're still falling in love, yeah, I love that.

Starting point is 01:22:06 But like, could they, could they just, could they fucking mix it up and not be the same shit? I wish, I've asked. They like their formulas. It's also, part of it is, it's like ABC Network, Disney. You know, it has been working. Keep it clean. If it's not broke, don't fix it.

Starting point is 01:22:25 Yeah, like you can't do a lot of the stuff that Bravo is able to do with it being capable. Disney's actually why I got laid off, fuckers. What happened? Bleachboard got bought out, well, acquired. We were under Turner, and then Turner got acquired by Warner Brothers, which I think is Disney. There's so many like, Coca-Cola and Disney

Starting point is 01:22:45 own like this fucking table. Like they own everything. Us. They do. Probably. You know? They do. It's weird.

Starting point is 01:22:54 How'd you get into it? Apply online? The Bachelor? Yeah. Oh, I had a friend, my friend's wife, I was making fun of her for watching it, and so she signed me up as a joke. Damn.

Starting point is 01:23:04 Yeah. The friend's wife line up as a joke. Damn. Yeah. The friend's wife line? It is true. Okay. Yeah, we saw that coming. You remember the movie, like Mike, with Bow Wow? And he's a basketball player who's like, shoot. I think I'm familiar with it.

Starting point is 01:23:16 I've never seen it. There's a clip where Dirk Nowitzki goes and asks him for an autograph. He's like, who's it for? And he's like, my cousin. He goes, what's his name? Dirk Nowitzki goes, uh, D-Dirk. I did that to David Beckham once.

Starting point is 01:23:32 Yeah. Which I've told the story, but I saw him at a coffee shop once in Venice and I was a big fan of him. He was unbothered, like no one was fucking with him? He was just chilling. And drove in with a Lamborghini and I was like, fuck, I gotta ask.

Starting point is 01:23:45 And I was like, hey man, big fan, gonna get a picture. Were you cool at the time? Was this like pre? Oh, this was, yeah, this was post-Bachelor. Okay, nice. He was cool. That's cool.

Starting point is 01:23:57 Yeah, you were tight. Not to say you weren't cool. Did you say like my cousin or something? Who'd you say? No, I was like, can I have a selfie? And we're taking the selfie, it was very nice. And I said something like, my sisters and mom are gonna love this. And then I outed him, and I was like, can I have a selfie? And we're taking a selfie, it was very nice. And I said something like, my sisters and mom

Starting point is 01:24:06 are gonna love this. And then I outed, and I was like, I don't know why I said that, they don't. Like, this is for me. They don't, they actually hate you. But you owned it, so it's not even your own problem. Well, I did the thing that I'm sure people have done to you and it's been done to me, where you're just like,

Starting point is 01:24:22 it's not for grandma. Dudes all the time will go my my girlfriend loves the show yeah I'm like it's okay if you watch like why is your girlfriend well then it gets us yeah sometimes it's it feels cucky okay you know yeah if someone says my girlfriend loves you I'm like don't say that. Yeah, you're like, why does she wanna fuck? I'm like, it's your girlfriend, not ours. Oh, fucking weirdo. Not ours.

Starting point is 01:24:51 I never say any of that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, you're like, oh great, it was like a fact. Have you ever been propositioned to join a couple? DMs, yeah. I feel like, not in person, that hasn't happened yet. Would you? You've been asked to join a...

Starting point is 01:25:05 It's so, it's clear, yeah, it's like a dude DMs you and is like, yo, let's go out for like a vacation with my family and I'm like, first off, what do you mean by family? Yeah, yeah, yeah, kids, parents? I just show up, I'm in the room with River, just us, just chilling. That's like, what's going on?

Starting point is 01:25:22 So like, when are we doing this, like 4 p.m. or? What the fuck? Like 4 p.m. or? What the fuck? Oh yeah. It'd be a free trip though. So you would? I'm not saying I would. They are. I'm not saying I would.

Starting point is 01:25:35 Like how hot do they have to be? Yeah, I would need them to be hot. I feel like the couples who always want to find a third are pretty beat. That's the thing. You know it's true. They're not charting. It's not David Beckham and Victoria.

Starting point is 01:25:51 It's not true. Oh. That's sick. But I mean, more power to him though, you know? Did you pick out your own outfit for the reunion or was that a stylist? I got a little help. Did you love it or hate it?

Starting point is 01:26:04 Loved. I wish you would have worn it here today. It was fantastic. Thank you. That's awesome. Yeah, this. It's funny. What, you don't like this? Jesus.

Starting point is 01:26:12 Oh my God. Jesus. You hate grocery stores and denim? Is that a grocery store? And same bars. And it's a retro Budweiser hat. Yeah, I just threw shit on it, honestly. I mean, you tried.

Starting point is 01:26:27 I thought about it, yeah. Yeah. No, it was an absolute, I sent it to our group message and I said, why are they slaying so hard? I really appreciate that. It was very good, like the baggy fit. Oversized. The mustache. Oversized is super in right now.

Starting point is 01:26:40 Yeah. Are you in therapy? Do you like therapy? I'm not. Not. I feel like doing it. Are you in therapy? Do you like it? I'm not. Are you in therapy? Do you like it? Do I come off like I am? No. She was about to say yes before you interrupted.

Starting point is 01:26:54 I was. I was going to say kind of in a way. Sort of. In a way I feel like doing this show though, it's not like good therapy, but you have to talk about your shit though all the time. Yeah. Yeah, we'll get heavy in a second. Let's wait a little bit.

Starting point is 01:27:10 But yeah, like. He's not ready yet. Yeah, it's not real therapy, but I do feel like, even just like the confessionals, you know, you're talking to one person. The confessionals definitely are very therapeutic. Yeah, I mean, you do those for three hours at a time, and you're just talking about you.

Starting point is 01:27:27 Okay, so kind of therapy. That is bullshit, yes, so no. Yeah, the only difference between the confessionals and real therapy is that the person on the other end doesn't always have your best interest in mind. Like, they, as I say, they're the friend who wants you to buy the boat. Yeah, no, it's fair. Where are you from?

Starting point is 01:27:42 Missouri. Okay. Where are you from? Where'd you grow up? I'm from Alabama. Dude, we're Alabama, Missouri, Wisconsin on this couch? Yeah. That's fucking awesome.

Starting point is 01:27:52 Culture. Fuck the coastal states. You guys are annoying and don't know anything about the states in between the oceans. Yeah, no, we were struggling for a while when we realized our daughter was gonna have to tell people she was born and raised in LA. Like a valley girl, no. Oh yeah. We struggled with that for a while when we realized our daughter was gonna have to tell people she was born and raised in LA.

Starting point is 01:28:05 Like a valley girl, yeah. Oh yeah. We struggled with that for a minute. Will she go to, do you know what high school, I guess, do you guys own your house? We do. We do. That's not my business. No, no, no.

Starting point is 01:28:14 Do you know what high school she'll go to? If we don't move. Yeah, we don't, we're. We don't know. But we've decided, I've decided, that she's just gonna say like oh, we work in LA, but we're from the South and or Wisconsin. What part of Alabama?

Starting point is 01:28:31 Auburn. Oh yeah, heard of it. My roommate for a while was from Daphne. Okay, Daphne. Down by Mobile. Yeah, down by Mobile. And then I lived in Savannah, Georgia for like 10 years. Yeah, that's where the wedding was.

Starting point is 01:28:43 This bracelet's from Savannah, Georgia. Swear to God. Who, where, how? I covered a Savannah Bananas game for work. And then all the dudes had pearl choker necklaces with the little smiley things on them. And I was like, I don't really think that's my fucking swag, but I think a bracelet would be cool.

Starting point is 01:29:01 And so we put a bracelet together before I left. Did you enjoy the Savannah Bananas game? Yeah, do you know the bar Mood Rites? I do. That is my shit in Savannah. Yeah. Love that place. That was great.

Starting point is 01:29:12 With the bowling alley. Bowling alley and then the back is like Cowboys and cheeseburgers and stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Place is electric. That place is sick. The Savannah Bananas like go viral on TikTok all the time. I'm nervous that they peaked already.

Starting point is 01:29:26 Like how long is dancing in a basement fun going to last? I think it was fun for a while, and now they're becoming, what's the word that people used to say a couple years ago? They played out or what? Chuggy. Oh no.

Starting point is 01:29:35 Listen, that's like Savannah locals, we ride hard for Savannah Bananas. That whole atmosphere's great though. Super sick. I think maybe it's getting overplayed just watching a six second video. They're also very talented. They are good at baseball and very skilled. But the internet's annoying. They also act like they're MLB players. And you're like, babe, you dance on the field.

Starting point is 01:29:58 Let's relax. Someone can hit though. So they have a dude on the team who, I found this out, never played baseball, but is like an acrobat. And so he just dresses up and they just don't put him in the game and he just does flips. And I was like, oh fuck. That's crazy, yeah.

Starting point is 01:30:17 Yeah, that is crazy. But Savannah's a great place. Yeah, it is. It's like the less try hard Charleston that I'm gonna get hurt for saying that. No, a million percent. I say that all the time. It's like a, Charleston's like a,'m gonna get hurt for saying that. No, a million percent. I say that all the time. It's like a, Charleston's like a,

Starting point is 01:30:27 we went to a wedding there not too long ago. I've got one in September in Charleston. It's a very nice, it's like a cleaner, more boring version of Savannah. Is it Craig and Pages? No, no. Okay. It's not.

Starting point is 01:30:40 Just wondering. We'll see. You say that like you're sad. No, that would be fun though. It probably would be fun. But yeah, I think Savannah's- Would you join their Drupal? Yeah, what?

Starting point is 01:30:51 I said I would watch their sex tape. Yeah. Yeah, what? What? Is that even a question? Yes. If you're on the page, Craig, yes. Absolutely. You should DM them right now. Yeah. Who should I DM to ask? You're on the page, Craig? Yes, absolutely.

Starting point is 01:31:05 You should DM them right now. Yeah. Who should I DM to ask? If you go, going on a family vacation. Are you going to go on a family vacation anytime soon? I'd love to join. What was it? I like tell Craig, Craig doesn't tell Paige,

Starting point is 01:31:21 I just show up. Isn't there like a thing like swingers do when they're on vacation, they leave something on their door. It's a pineapple upside down, right? Yeah. Okay. Or like you get a tattoo of a pineapple upside down or something to like really stamp it.

Starting point is 01:31:31 Holy shit, you can never change your mind. What if it's something you used to do? You know, you can't use to do threesomes. No? That's a part of you. Yeah, you're a threesome guy or girl or couple. Have you ever had a threesome? Yeah, what?

Starting point is 01:31:44 In kindergarten. I played college football. I'm not in kindergarten. Yeah. Yeah. It's funny. Was it like a guy and a girl or like two girls? I can't tell you that part.

Starting point is 01:31:56 Oh my God, why not? Both. Nick will tell you about this. Both. All right. So you're talented, we get it. You know what? You have sex. We get it, you fuck.

Starting point is 01:32:07 Ah, well. Do I? Yeah. How is Sierra doing? Uh, well, I started reunion. Okay. She looked insane. Yeah, she looked great.

Starting point is 01:32:21 Like in the best possible way. Yeah. Iconic. She always kills it. My jaw was dropped. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Like, in the best possible way. Yeah. Iconic. She always kills it. My jaw was dropped. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:32:28 Wow. Yeah. That must have felt like... Hard. Yeah. Yeah. Rough. Well, I've never done...

Starting point is 01:32:36 Probably. Literally. Okay, and weird. I'll go deep here, but like in a therapeutic way, I guess you could say. I think normally in life, I don't know, if things are somewhat casual, but you know, some people's feelings get hurt, whatever, you typically aren't, you don't have to like watch it back or like see things that you've done

Starting point is 01:32:52 that hurt someone's feelings or like upset them. And so I would say this whole process, I mean with anyone, everyone, you do watch back and see like the ramifications of like shit that you do, which is not, you would not normally do in real life. And I'm not claiming that that's also therapy, but it is something that I think is abnormal that in the long run is probably beneficial, at least for me to kind of see how things play out.

Starting point is 01:33:19 But what exactly are you talking about specifically? Well, you said was the reunion, was it sad to see Sierra looking hot? Right. And so yeah, I mean like, I mean that whole day was just kinda like, whoa. It's a lot of like feelings and emotions and I think. Everyone's venting, yeah.

Starting point is 01:33:37 Yeah, and I think that, I don't know, we don't always do that when we have issues, problems, shit like that. What has been the hardest thing to watch back? Well, for sure it's when I just say dumb shit that I'm tripping over my words and I sound like an idiot after. Conversations with Sierra and I,

Starting point is 01:33:53 the later we go into the season, I'm like, oh fuck, it's like, I don't consider that a strong suit of mine, like, delivering how I feel super clear. How'd you feel about the horseback riding date? The horseback riding was fun. But no, that talk after was not my best. I just sometimes I don't get words out great.

Starting point is 01:34:18 Yeah, well, what part, I feel you got it out. You think so? Yeah, I mean, it's more, obviously I think not everyone loved your answer. Yeah. But to your point, it felt honest. Yeah. I don't know if there was a better way of saying that like relationships are.

Starting point is 01:34:37 Skittling, whatever. I know that it's an immature POV, but I also. I don't think you're alone. How old are you? 29 now. I'm getting close. Damn. No, I, but I also. I don't think you're alone. How old are you? 29 now. I'm getting close. Damn. No, I know, I know.

Starting point is 01:34:49 I don't think for especially people living in New York, and I don't know if that's a good thing, but I don't think you're alone. I think that's, I think like hookup culture and just how dating landscape has gone. I just, I think situationships, just the whole what are we, it's everyone's, and it's not just guys. I think dating culture in general,

Starting point is 01:35:11 everyone has one foot out the door, they're always looking for the next best thing. It's this perception of abundance where it's just like, even when you got a lot of shit from Page, it's just like the idea, it's just like who? And I'm sure you'll find a wonderful partner. Yeah, Sierra is great. But the perception of like,

Starting point is 01:35:32 it's seeming like you're still looking, here you are dating someone like Sierra, and the perception that you're just like, well, you know, she's great and all, but you never know, you know, I live in New York. And that is, I think that is something more often than not a lot of single people are doing, this having this like, yeah, I mean, they're great,

Starting point is 01:35:51 but like you're kind of comparing anyone you're dating to the world. Yeah, wow, that was, look at that. Like I could never have rattled that off. That was poetic. I think you could do it. Poetic. That was awesome. No, I think you're completely accurate in that statement.

Starting point is 01:36:08 And I'm very much like a part of that. Like I recognize that for sure. Genuine question. Like what is the scary part about, like when I was, I'm a little older than you. And when I was in my 20s, it was more like, you like someone, you're like fuck it, let's be boyfriend and girlfriend.

Starting point is 01:36:26 And then you would kind of fuck each other up emotionally because you didn't really know how to handle yourself. And then you would cry and break up. But that kind of trained you. You kind of learned how to deal with your emotions. And right now, what is so scary about saying, fuck it, let's try, I'm not gonna text anyone else, we'll see where it goes. We can always break up.

Starting point is 01:36:48 I've got two things. One, this one's gonna sound like a shitty excuse, but I think it's kind of like the, what I've built up in my head. Just the genuine answer. For me, I feel like I've been, so let's say like, so my parents, right? Same job since they graduated college,

Starting point is 01:37:07 or my mom went to like med school, residency, whatever. Same job, got a house, it's very like, everything's been- Cookie cutter. Very like, straightforward. I feel like I've been fired, laid off, moved, fucking done a TV show, like all these random things that I have made massive life decisions only with my

Starting point is 01:37:27 interest and not needing to like put someone else's interests in play, not needing to compromise. And I think a lot of things have benefited me from just doing shit like that. Whether that's like, yeah, moving, taking jobs, getting like, just fucking doing whatever. And I think compromise scares me a little bit, which I know sounds fucking childish,

Starting point is 01:37:48 but when opportunities, X, Y, Z, come my way or don't come my way, I just feel like operating with only my interests, like feel, I guess if it's safe. Or feels. I think that's a great answer. Yeah, and then the worst one is, this is what my parents say, I don't even know if this is true. This is what your parents tell you about you?

Starting point is 01:38:10 Yeah, it's like what they think my trauma is. They think that somehow when I was young, I developed this habit of trying to keep everyone happy and not let anyone get angry or upset. And I've carried that into my 20s. Are you a middle child? Oldest, so like my parents were young. Like my dad and mom were 24, 25.

Starting point is 01:38:36 That's not that young. That feels so young to me. Sure, but back in the day-ish, like my parents were like 21. Damn, that's awesome. That was more normal back then. Yeah, it was. Back in the day-ish, my parents were like 21. Damn! Yeah. That's awesome. That was more normal back then. Yeah, it was. And so you're talking about breaking up.

Starting point is 01:38:50 So again, I know it sounds so stupid and dumb, but I'm just here to be honest. I don't think it sounds stupid and dumb. I don't know, like when you date someone, I think I said this in one of the episodes, I was like, you're either gonna marry them, or you'll have a breakup, and breakups make me so sad. No, but it's part of life.

Starting point is 01:39:07 No, I know it is, but the sadness breakup fighting stuff, I think I've always tried, it's like once that part of the relationship happens, I tense up. What scares me for you. Yeah, yeah, being honest. Yeah. And whatever you are about to say,

Starting point is 01:39:24 I think my dad's been shouting it at me for years. Well, then someday you're gonna meet someone and they're gonna fuck you up in the best possible way. You're gonna like absolutely just be in love and she's gonna break up with you. Yeah, oh, I think I need, I probably. No, it's just like, but like you're just not supposed to experience that for the first time at 30.

Starting point is 01:39:44 Yeah, yeah, that's fair. time. Yeah, 30. Yep. Yeah, it's fair and And it's gonna fuck you up You're gonna it's gonna yeah, did you just manifest that? You've had two relationships in your life you talked about like well relationships I've had a ton but ones that I mean it where he's just like I don't know what it is I'm just like, you know, yeah every heterosexual guy who meets a girl at some point, he doesn't know how to, it's like, why am I acting the way I'm acting?

Starting point is 01:40:10 You know, it's just like that first time you get that feeling where it's just like, you're not yourself because you're just so invested in this person. And it's like a rite of passage, especially for men, because I think they're just a little behind emotionally in general and they don't know why they will act a certain way and it's just love. But yeah, they get a little.

Starting point is 01:40:32 I think I think earlier in my 20s, I convinced myself that like not embracing the like emotional parts of a relationship or like, I guess like the full pie, you know, like not just the good, what was like the mature thing to not be emotional and angry and sad and all this shit. And then I think I may have just avoided all the shitty parts that I like now don't know fully how to like grab the bull by the horns type shit. But you look here, there's still time, you can figure it out. But your first answer I actually think is a legitimate answer and an. But your first answer, I actually think,

Starting point is 01:41:05 is a legitimate answer and an honest answer. I mean, I do think a lot of, I think it's harder for men to get in relationships if they feel like they're not settled professionally. Oh, for sure. If you're just like, what do I wanna do? Once you've figured it out, and granted, you still might reinvent yourself,

Starting point is 01:41:23 like it's, and granted you still might reinvent yourself. You feel incomplete, almost like the pressures of knowing what you want or where you wanna go. And I do think there's something to be said about, there's a time to be selfish, and I think your 20s is a great time for that. Six more months. Yeah. Because yeah, I think there's a lot of guys too,, on the flip side who just want to have a girlfriend.

Starting point is 01:41:47 Yeah. Yeah. And aren't willing to do the boyfriend things. And they're still like focused on being, you know, still focused on their career, still focused on taking big swings and taking big risks, but they do like having that regular sex and they do like having that, you know, that person that can take to weddings and things like that.

Starting point is 01:42:04 And yet they're not willing to step up. And so that's not you, that's better. And I think, well have you done that too? Unfortunately, yeah. I mean, yeah. Like I like, I would be lying if I said I didn't like attention, you know what I mean? Yeah, we all do.

Starting point is 01:42:17 Yeah, so that's always there. I think I do crave that, but yeah, like you said, step up I think is what you said. That's not soon. No think I do crave that. But yeah, like you said, step up, I think is what you said. That's not soon. No, yeah. Soon. Yeah. But...

Starting point is 01:42:29 Not right now. Yeah. What's your type? I mean, historically, like, it's very all over the board, to be honest. Okay. Is it cliched to be like, I don't have one? Kind of, right?

Starting point is 01:42:40 Kind of. A little bit. But I think... The girls that I've had serious relationships with, those are all, I don't wanna call it a chase, because it sounds bad, but those required a fair amount of time.

Starting point is 01:42:54 Or I don't think they liked me for like, You liked them more than they liked you. In the beginning. You're an athlete. You love a challenge, man. You love a, I guess so. I don't know what that is either, but...

Starting point is 01:43:06 I think human nature. I think so, yeah, I think so. No one wants to pursue someone they're like, I could do that, no problem. This is an easy one. Well, that's the thing about everyone. Everyone goes after someone they perceive to be a step above them.

Starting point is 01:43:26 Whether that's accurate or whether that stays, you might date someone who at first, you're like, wow, I don't know how I landed you, and two years later, why am I still with you? That happens all the time. But no one goes after or pursues someone they feel is like a charity. Dude, nothing has shaken my confidence

Starting point is 01:43:43 in my physical appearance more than being on TV a Everyone being like this does prove that like not hot guys are cool because like they're funny And I'm like damn that sucks. You're very attractive guy. Thank you. Yeah, I think you're attractive as well Thank you. Yeah, should we leave should we go on a family vacation? I think you're attractive as well. Thank you. Should we leave? Should we go on a family vacation? Yeah.

Starting point is 01:44:05 But then obviously, and this is like to no surprise, but everyone's like, why the fuck would Sierra talk to that guy with his ugly mustache and like his not abs? Listen, I thought I was a fairly attractive young man and then I went on TV and then I got compared to some real ugly men. Also, people comparing me to Sierra, what am I gonna do there? I'm not ever gonna win that. Compare me to someone not named Sierra. Kyle.

Starting point is 01:44:32 Yeah, I'll take Kyle, fine. What are your love languages? Giving and then we'll talk receiving. Giving? Yeah, like how do you show? Access service. Okay, do you agree with that? Oh, one million percent.

Starting point is 01:44:42 What's yours? How I give love, probably physical touch. Same. How do you like with that? Oh million percent. What's yours how I give yeah love Probably physical touch same How do you like to receive what? My knees on the ground Physical touch and words of affirmation, but I know actually I do like my therapist Oh fucking told me I'm, my therapist told me that. I'll go on him 30. My therapist told me that we actually, I think, I would, it's probably access service more than I realize.

Starting point is 01:45:14 Because I think you really like to receive love the same way you give it. You give it, yeah. And I think we sometimes don't play that. What was your receive? My receive is all of them, yeah. All of them. All of them, yeah.

Starting point is 01:45:26 But he doesn't give words? No, he does. He does. I think the one that he doesn't do the most would- I could match her energy better. Yeah, for sure. I could show better enthusiasm for little things. That's it.

Starting point is 01:45:43 Yeah. That's it. Like anything. Hey babe, what about this? He'll be like, it's nice. Yeah. That's it. Like anything. Hey babe, what about this? I'd be like, it's nice. And I'd be like, no, I want you to be like, that is the hottest fucking thing I've ever seen. Holy fucking shit.

Starting point is 01:45:50 But then I feel like, so, I think of family members first, but I know people like this too, who are so, and I'm not saying being positive is bad. It's not. But like, everything is the best XYZ, or like, they love XYZ, and then it just becomes so empty

Starting point is 01:46:06 Yeah, I just I don't know anything. I don't have it in me to like feign excitement one of my best friends in New York He's like super quick to just is the best fucking coffee I've ever had like he'll just say it out loud So I started keeping a list on my phone and every time he spoke and like certainties Yeah, and it is the funny. It's a couple? Yeah, if he's watching it. So sometimes I'll quiz him. Would he watch this? Like would he be, is he like that good of a friend? He's not even, I don't even think he's watching the show,

Starting point is 01:46:31 to be honest. Will's favorite things right here, look at this. His favorite food, he said six different things. Stop, stop. But like. Oh my God, it's so long. One of them is like smelliest fart and it's like March 8th.

Starting point is 01:46:40 It just, cause he said it. You know what I'm saying? Was it his or yours? Yeah, it was his for sure. For sure. Yeah, it's unreal. That's so funny. Yeah, I mean, I don't know if I'm necessarily

Starting point is 01:46:51 looking for that. I think it's just, couple therapy, hello. I think it's, he does great in all of them. I think physical touch and like- Quality time. We spend a lot of time together. You're saying that I'm gonna do a bad thing? No, no, no, no, I'm just saying,

Starting point is 01:47:06 that's not something that I might. He's around a lot. He never fucking leaves. He doesn't get the fuck out. There are one that's like, gets off their phone. Like a love language? Sure. Quality time.

Starting point is 01:47:17 That would be quality time probably. Well. Because time and quality time, two different things. Yeah. You just being there and you being present. Yeah, I would say like watching a show both on your phone, I wouldn't clock that as quality time, two different things. You just being there and you being present. Yeah, I would say watching a show both on your phone, I wouldn't clock that as quality time. It's gotta be doing, I was gonna say doing something,

Starting point is 01:47:32 but I guess if you're not on your phone together, that feels so. Like eating dinner with the TV on is not like. I don't think so. Yeah, yeah. But I do think there are probably couples who that's their fucking, they love that and that's what it is And my parents watch movies together. We love watching shows together. Yeah interact during the show

Starting point is 01:47:51 I wouldn't not like quality time then like I think that's counts. What are yours touch? But every time I say that everyone's like I'll cuddle everyone here. Are you do you do you like a little spoon situation? I prefer yeah, I also want like a little back tickle. Maybe a little kiss or something right here But I Recognize my role as a man being big spin so I'll do it Yeah, so you you want physical touch or you give physical touch? Both.

Starting point is 01:48:26 I'm very physical, like even like, I hug everyone. I'm touchy with my boys, my family, like girl, like I just, you know, hands around. Were your parents very affectionate? Yeah. That's how I am too. My mom was extremely touchy and so I'm- That's cause we're all Midwest South here.

Starting point is 01:48:40 Where's your family? Stanton. Yeah, no, I mean, like touchy, lovey. Yeah, sure, I mean like touchy lovey. Yeah, sure. I don't know if Nick is, we were at our wedding and my best friend, Chambliss, she has an aunt, Sherry, who like I love everyone. That's such an aunt name too.

Starting point is 01:48:54 Aunt Sherry. She's real country, she talks like this. Oh yeah. And she loves, yes, and she loves Nick. And at the wedding, she was a little toasted and she kept kissing Nick on the temple. She's like, I love that spot right there, that temple, it's so delicious.

Starting point is 01:49:11 And I know that feeling and Nick was like. I want her. I took it. He took it. Yeah, I would do. I wouldn't, I could get enough. You want her in your pocket. Oh, Aunt Sherry. Aunt Sherry. Actually all my aunt names too are, they all sound like aunts. I got Aunt Nancy, Aunt Cheryl, Aunt Sherry. Aunt Sherry. Actually, all my aunt names too are, they all sound like aunts.

Starting point is 01:49:26 I got Aunt Nancy, Aunt Cheryl, Aunt Vic. Aunt Vic. Aunt Heather, my mom's sister. Heather? I don't know if Aunt Heather is like typical. That sounds maybe. She sounds kinda hot. She's, yeah.

Starting point is 01:49:37 Yeah. She's good looking. She's my dad's brother's wife. You can say that. I can say people are attractive, right? Yeah, this is how you say it. I have so many hot cousins. No, I'm kidding.

Starting point is 01:49:48 I have attractive cousins. Like there's a cousin that was wasn't like, hmm. Different. But yeah. And then I think I like receiving words of affirmation probably better than I give it. Yeah, I think I'd say one day. Yeah. You want that better than I, like I Yeah, I think I'd say one day. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:50:05 You want that better than I, like I texted you yesterday and I was like, I know I don't say this enough. But I just missed that text. Yeah, he like never responded. You said something like a paragraph being like. So nice, it was so nice. But then I was recording and then she sent me

Starting point is 01:50:18 four other text messages and a missed call and it was just like, I was responding to what I thought was an emergency. She buried her. If you send a love message like that, you gotta let it sit there. Oh my God, but I had so many other things to say. I know, but I think you got it. She's like, did you see that message?

Starting point is 01:50:32 And I'm like, what message? She goes, oh. And then I knew I was fucked. Yeah. But then I came home after I responded twice with a heart and a message, and then came home. A heart is not a response. Hearting the message is not a response.

Starting point is 01:50:44 No, no, it's not. I'm your team is not a response. No, no, it's not. I'm your team. Would you agree? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, but I hearted it and sent a response. I know it's not a response, but it's still like, why didn't you heart it? Oh.

Starting point is 01:50:56 Then I sent a response. I almost think. And then I came home and I said, and that really meant a lot. Thank you for saying that. I'm sorry I didn't. I think reacting to, they call them reactions, the hearts and thumbs up and shit,

Starting point is 01:51:06 is meant to not acknowledge, or to not actually respond to the thing. 100%. I think it's more of a slap in the face than not responding. Yeah, yeah, it means, saw it, don't care, and then just reply. Don't give a fuck. Yeah, but you replied, you're good.

Starting point is 01:51:18 The thumbs up is like, I would just shoot me in the head. Do any of your parents text, just send a thumbs up reply? Yeah, my dad all the real It's so fucking crazy Really yellow cuz they haven't like changed it to their skin color Oh, I saw a tweet and it was like every dad's keyboard and it was just all the thumbs up emojis and then the letters Okay in caps

Starting point is 01:51:41 That's so true. Oh, it's so good. Do you remember the day your dad learned how to text? Well, my dad was super anti iPhone shit, like kept the shitty flip phone on purpose for a bunch of years. Got an iPhone, took a little picture of one of his horses. Oh, I did not know where that was going. Was like, oh yeah. Took a little picture of one of his horse.

Starting point is 01:52:03 Woo! Woo! Took a little picture of one of his whores. Woo! Woo! Took a horse picture. Get them! Was like, I'll just download Instagram. Posted it, started taking more pictures, and now he's fucking photographer, iPhone, Instagram, animal guy.

Starting point is 01:52:17 Does he respond to your stories? No, I don't think he knows how to do that. Oh. I can't send him reels because he doesn't know how to find it. But he'll post stuff. Yeah. But I can't send him a good old he doesn't know how to find it. But he'll post stuff, but I can't send him a good old reel.

Starting point is 01:52:27 This is kind of random and out of pocket, but we were flying home from the lake on Wisconsin. Which lake? Doesn't matter. Geneva? No, more of a private lake. Private. We don't want to tell people. But a nice little lake.

Starting point is 01:52:41 Too famous, yeah. I got you. No, I didn't. I did, I Yeah, I got you Flying home. Mm-hmm. There was an Amish girl. Yeah on the plane had a flip phone Technically I had so many questions, but the best part was after he landed she was like was like a row in front to the left, immediately opened up that flip phone,

Starting point is 01:53:08 turned it off airplane mode, started taxing. I didn't even know flip phones had airplane mode. So I was just like fascinated by, I had so many questions, like I thought, so I believe- Why the flip phone, but not the regular, like why a phone at all? There's a lot of different levels to that.

Starting point is 01:53:24 So I believe Mennonites are full, no electricity. One step up is Amish, but you're supposed to be a minimalist. Minimal, okay, so, well, she was giving minimalist. Yeah. And I think the cars need to all be... Convertibles. No, they're like, I think they, I don't wanna get the rules wrong, but I think it's like the cars have to be black andibles. No, they're like, I think they, I don't wanna get the rules wrong,

Starting point is 01:53:45 but I think it's like the cars have to be black and like carp lever, but then there's also, rum springa is when, I think it's just for the guys though, and then they can leave the land or property or whatever you wanna call it, and that's where you can, they can go just, like go do hard drugs and decide if they wanna come back or not.

Starting point is 01:54:00 And they're all just like jacked because they just do fucking like woodwork and stuff. Well, how do you know so much about this? Yeah, I did not expect to get the, I thought you'd be like, I don't know. My dad gets his saddles made by the Amish community. They do great work, yeah. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:54:15 Is your dad an equestrian? He's like, I don't wanna call him self-made because his grandfather was a rancher essentially, and that's who my dad like got all his info from. But then, yeah, my dad was a rancher essentially, and that's who my dad got all his inspo from. But then, yeah, my dad was a world history teacher for my whole life, and then just bought a little land, bought more land, two horses. Became a cowboy.

Starting point is 01:54:35 Yeah, and he like competes, now he rodeos, and we just got chickens actually, so he's starting to be a chicken farmer as well. Did he watch Yellowstone? He did, I think, well, you know, so Yellowstone takes place in Bo chicken farmer as well. Did he watch Yellowstone? He did, I think. Well, you know, so Yellowstone takes place in Bozeman, where I went to school. So we watch it for, they like make Montana State

Starting point is 01:54:51 football references throughout that show, which we love. But yeah, I think, him and I both hate Beth. I think she's the, I can't stand her, dude. You hate Beth? I think she's so not, I don't think anyone would ever be that mean in real life. I think her character is so mean. And it makes me uncomfortable.

Starting point is 01:55:09 Why are you so happy that you're like, I could never imagine. She, I like hate how mean she is to everyone. Do you want Beth to be softer? Yeah, oh, that's a good call out. I saw that. But yeah, he does watch Yellowstone, but I think he thinks everyone's getting into cowboy stuff

Starting point is 01:55:25 and he's like, you guys are so Hollywood, I'm real. Type shit, you know? Are you team Carl or team Lindsay? I think accusing someone of relapsing, to me, is significantly worse than anything else anyone's done all summer. And that to me, I think, objectively made me Team Carl. But I mean, throughout the summer,

Starting point is 01:55:52 all of Lindsay's arguments, I'm kinda like, yeah, Lindsay, I see what you're trying to do, and it's not working. When you say you see what she's trying to do. Like the conversation she's trying to get out of him. And I think, yeah, I think Carl just was being soft. Or whatever. Is Carl soft?

Starting point is 01:56:10 Carl's a little soft. I don't know. I also, the job thing too I get from her POV too, I don't know. Yeah, I think we all acknowledge that maybe it wasn't the best move early in the season for her to accuse Carl of that, you know. I just think, well, it also is different,

Starting point is 01:56:24 because I've, I mean, I've known him for a year-ish, year and a half, but like, I've heard him talk about like that journey and how hard he's worked. And I know how hard it is for anyone to become sober. And I just think to blindly do that to your fiance, it's like the hardest thing he's done. And I just, I didn't, I don't love that at all. It wasn't, it was not her best moment for sure.

Starting point is 01:56:49 Yeah, but then the rest, I still think you can chalk up everything else to still, it's like a relationship issue that like you could technically see both sides from. I'm not saying that you do. I do see both sides. I mean, I don't, I think the biggest takeaway I feel like from most of the audience is that they're not compatible. Imagine watching this season

Starting point is 01:57:09 and then knowing they got married. Right? Yeah, that'd be fucking crazy. Crazy. Yeah, so it worked out. Yeah, I just, you know, the drinking stuff early, obviously we were very critical of what she said. But then it's kind of, not that there's a but,

Starting point is 01:57:24 it's just like she would still be wrong. But I can, you know, usually when stuff like that happens, everyone's like, I could never do that. How could she do that? Everyone's always like, acts as if they're, they've never said something that they probably like, you know, that was probably wrong. I apologize, I saw it differently.

Starting point is 01:57:40 And I, as tough as I'm sure, or hard as Carl's worked, you know, Lindsay was going through that with him. And I'm, you know, and I, you know, it can be very difficult to be the partner of someone who has a problem. And yeah, Carl deserves a lot of credit for working on that problem. But I can appreciate where maybe Lindsay has her own trauma and scars. And so yeah, maybe did she say something she shouldn't have said?

Starting point is 01:58:05 Were her intentions to actually weaponize it? Or in that moment, was she having a moment of weakness where she said something she shouldn't have said, but it came across in a way that seemed a little more aggressive than she meant it to be? Oh, I think, I don't know. The really interesting part of all of this to me is how the dynamics between a fully sober person

Starting point is 01:58:27 and someone who fucking drinks hard being together is. Where like I almost wonder, I'm not saying couples should both drink, but I feel like a drunk, two couples who go out, whatever you're drinking, get in a fight, wake up, and you're both kind of like, that was fucking whatever, like call to wash. Where I would watch Carl, I mean, he is sober, that was fucking whatever, like, call to wash, where I would watch Carl,

Starting point is 01:58:45 I mean, he is sober, so he's gonna remember everything, internalize it much longer and harder than he would if he was drinking, and then remember every second of it in the morning when like, Glenzie's just kinda like, whatever. And I think that, in a way, like, made it even harder for them to communicate, cause, yeah.

Starting point is 01:59:04 Oh, I'm a huge believer that, in what comes to compatibility, you need to be on the same page with your, whether it's drinking or any type of recreational drug, you need to be pretty much equals in terms of your consumption. If she's doing crack, you gotta fuck her. You have to do crack.

Starting point is 01:59:23 You also have to pick up crack. No, seriously, it's like there's, I could never, I think a big point of compatibility that I have is that we, neither of us are heavy drinkers. You know, we just, you know, and I think you need to be on the same page. There is nothing worse than like being someone who drinks heavy and feels judged by someone

Starting point is 01:59:42 who just doesn't drink or vice versa. Like if you generally don't get drunk and your partner's always fucked up, that's fucking annoying. It's just, it's annoying. You can only put up with it for so long. I think you have to be on the same page in terms of your drinking, whatever it is.

Starting point is 01:59:58 But if you're one thing and your partner's another, it's a nightmare. My mom drinks, my dad doesn't. So they've had, I mean, just a zillion times. So I'm just ripping on your parents. No, no, no, it's cool. They're great, but I just think no one sees eye to eye in that situation at all.

Starting point is 02:00:17 It's really tough. If you are able to navigate it, good for you, but I think it makes any relationship harder. Nick and I have been together for almost four years, and I've never seen him drunk. Really? Never. But what does that mean to you, like, buzz?

Starting point is 02:00:31 Oh, I mean, I would love to see him drunk off his ass and just see how he acts, but we've just never been that couple that's like, let's go to the club and fuck it and worry-start. Is that because you're just a fucking tank? Or you're just, you're like one drink and I'm calling it There's other things I do to relax. Mm-hmm. I like to sip alcohol. I'm just not a big shot guy I don't like so fucked up like stoic of you. It's it's really just I'll get the spins

Starting point is 02:00:58 Yeah, you know, I'll I just I don't my body does not respond well to over consumption But I've never blacked out. I've been fucked up, I just can't, I can't black out. That's awesome. I feel like I black out too easy. I feel like my body rejects too much alcohol. I made a statement on Reality Recap a few episodes ago about my take on Kyle and Loverboy,

Starting point is 02:01:19 and I'd love to hear what you think about it. The brand itself or just Kyle? Yeah, like does it offend you about how he talks to his wife? Yeah, I mean, I don't think you should. Yeah, they both talk shit like to each other. I think his is, when he's angry, hers is more jokey. But yeah, I mean, I don't I would never support

Starting point is 02:01:45 even calling your wife the B word. It's not great. But I think I mean, I think I did a fucking YouTube page with one of my friends in like twenty nineteen. OK. We resented each other so much. No money involved. Like we were just working together on like a food page on YouTube. I couldn't imagine being in business with

Starting point is 02:02:06 my wife and the power dynamics already because it is his company and he brought her and it's not like they like started it together. I don't know how that could ever like be easy or smooth. I think if he let her do her own shit, she stopped working for Loverboy, I think they'd each other. Like, I just think that dynamic of work shit is just not healthy at all, for anyone, not just them. Like, I objectively don't see that going well for anyone. My take was that, you're watching the season back? Yes, okay.

Starting point is 02:02:40 So, he, you know, complains about Loverboy and how it's not doing well and all this stuff and my take is that he is such a Terrible person to watch on TV, but because of the way he acts on TV Oh, it's like why would you want to support it? Why would you want to support Loverboy when he calls his wife a fucking bitch and he's drunk all the time? You know, it's like yeah, like I don't know much about the alcohol biz, but it seems like it's almost exclusively all about, it's not about the alcohol, it's about what it represents.

Starting point is 02:03:10 The vibe, you know, like what's the aesthetic. Yes, because it's so fucking oversaturated and there's just a zillion of every kind of drink. Right, if you're watching Summer House, and I'm sure you've seen it, I'm alarmed for Kyle by how much I haven't seen Loverboy outside of Summerhouse. And then I see Loverboy on Summerhouse

Starting point is 02:03:30 and the only thing it represents is calling your wife a bitch. And it's kind of like, to Nellie's point, like why, if you're only watching, if you're only seeing Loverboy on Summerhouse, a show that's predominantly watched by women, like why would you want to support a brand where its founder in face of the franchise,

Starting point is 02:03:47 is someone who, like, kind of seems like he hates his wife? Mm-hmm. I'm afraid that, and this is not just Summerhouse, but like, from what I've gathered just from this TV or people or entertainment or just any fame in general, I don't think, I think fame unfortunately outweighs character like a zillion times heavier than it should. I agree, but to be clear, from whose perspective?

Starting point is 02:04:17 An audience, or like a consumer. Yeah. From what I get, like so if I were to look at, I don't know, my phone or DMs, like, when people say mean shit, you kind of, like, pick up on it, blah, blah, blah, blah, but, like, out in masses, no one, like, cares about anything Kyle's done,

Starting point is 02:04:33 because he's a famous person in the room. Do you know what I'm saying? To a certain degree, but, like, I think that's the difference between Loverboy being, like, a niche, like, regional company versus, like, it actually blowing up and becoming something he's really proud of. Yeah. Yeah, like, can you order Loverboy out at a bar

Starting point is 02:04:49 or is it something like you have to order a 24 pack on Loverboy.com? Uh, they're really, I've seen them, only because I clock it when I see it. Right. But I've seen it in, like, Montana. Okay. In a gas, like, in Missoula.

Starting point is 02:05:01 Okay. Weirdly enough. But yeah, I think, my parents said this to me, though. They, this is in the beginning of the season, though, but they thought, when everyone was like, oh enough. But yeah, I think, my parents said this to me though, this was in the beginning of the season though, but they thought, when everyone was like, oh, Kyle and Amanda hate each other, they were like, their fights though,

Starting point is 02:05:12 not like the words they use, but like are the most marriage realistic fights. I mean, business aside, not really, but like just them kind of like, you know, Kyle talking shit at dinner, Amanda getting mad because he embarrassed her, like that kind of stuff. I feel like, again, this is just my parents, but they were like, that seems relatable in a way.

Starting point is 02:05:31 And so I think, yeah. They just are always fighting on the show. And I also have a different POV because I see them together, not on this TV show all the time. So you see the healthy side of their relationship. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

Starting point is 02:05:46 What's up with your boy Jesse online seeming like he wants to fuck Amanda? Dude. And honestly, more importantly, why is Amanda like, guys, that would never happen. Like, ah! I'm all for leaning into the bit, kind of. Like it's funny.

Starting point is 02:06:03 I'm all for leaning into the bit, but not with my wife. That's the only person who hasn't spoken yet. I don't know if he, I don't think you care. I hope he cares. I don't, I would. I don't, I don't. I mean, I don't consider myself a jealous guy at all.

Starting point is 02:06:18 I'm not, I'm not like, you know, if some guy were to, you know, buy Nellie a drink and I wouldn't lose my shit, it's like thanks for the free alcohol. But that is a whole different line. I did text Amanda and I was like, is he clearing these with you before you post them? She was like, I don't think she even, she just said in the caja,

Starting point is 02:06:38 the internet's crazy kind of thing. Oh my God, what an answer. But yeah, he's fully leaned into it, for sure. Jesse. Yeah, dude, it's crazy. Which I mean, especially after the page stuff, I'm like, dude. Well, yeah, it's like, he seems like a fun guy.

Starting point is 02:06:56 I'm so happy that his cancer diagnosis was what it was. But I honestly, watching it, I didn't love Jesse at first because all I knew about him was like, I'm the guy who likes to fuck. Yeah married women It's like Yeah, I think he led with a little too much What do you want to call it? fucking Not arrogance. I don't know. I think he has early in the confessional journey

Starting point is 02:07:20 And then he tried to be cool guy for a little bit, but I don't know. Yeah, I Mean listen, it's entertaining. It's more on Amanda than Kyle than it is Jesse when it comes to the internet flirting. Yeah, I I think once they knew they were like, I don't know fucking whatever rumors or Twitter people talking about it I think they both kind of like leaned into it because it's funny, but don't know I love it I know I think it's funny too. Yeah, I would love to hear what Kyle says. I wonder if even, like. You don't think he knows?

Starting point is 02:07:50 He has to, but if he was like, I would fully buy it. Interesting. Because he's so big a DJing? Yeah. What do you make of his DJing career? I went to one event that he did. And? It was fine, It was fine.

Starting point is 02:08:06 I think he practiced more. He's 42. Oh. So it's a lot of, there's not like pop smoke. Hold our heads. There's not like pop smoke. You know what I mean? It's not pop smoke.

Starting point is 02:08:15 It's like palm songs. But it's all good. It's all good. He's not keeping up with the kids. He's working on it. Yeah. But I do think though, if he's gonna do the DJ thing, like let Amanda, you know, if they're both gonna,

Starting point is 02:08:30 if he's gonna do a side project, I hope Amanda can do a side project. I absolutely love working with my wife. Now, since we are- Yeah, sorry, I was just ripping on working with you. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. It's never gonna work. No, no, no.

Starting point is 02:08:41 We'll have a fight with us later, it's absolutely fine. No, no, no, no. You probably know what I mean though. No, 100% not even me. Business wise. 100% I know'll talk about it with us later. It's absolutely fine. No, no, no. You probably know what I mean though. No, 100% not. Business wise? 100%. I love working with my wife. I love her being involved.

Starting point is 02:08:50 I love doing this show with her. But like, I am not banking on the success. I mean, she's a big part of the show. And I think people love saying that. But not that big. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like, I'm not counting on her to like make me an Excel report, you know, or being the director of,

Starting point is 02:09:08 you know, like whatever she brings as my partner, she's always my go-to person to run ideas past her, she's my support system. She is insanely valuable to me as my partner. Yes. But she's not like going to the board meeting, so to speak, you know, where I'm counting on, if Mally is like, hey, sorry our rivers not feeling well

Starting point is 02:09:27 I'm not like holy shit. Are you missing the the big meeting? You know type of thing where Kyle talks is it yeah, Amanda's like like a business partner. Not his wife. Yes Yeah, no, I don't understand that. I agree. That's why I don't I don't think like doing it I don't know be a value add and be a good support system But like when you start like well well you're gonna be the director of whatever the fuck, and if Amanda's like, you know, I'm not feeling it today, and he loses his marbles,

Starting point is 02:09:51 this doesn't seem like a good plan. I don't think, I think it probably started, and I don't know how or when, even saying he brought her on, that sounds so businessy, like they're married. I could fire her if. You know what I mean? Yeah, it on, like that sounds so businessy like they're married. I could fire her if. You know what I mean? Yeah, it probably, I don't know,

Starting point is 02:10:09 they felt like maybe it would be lovey-dovey, partnership-esque and like I don't know, if Kyle fucking hit a financial hole or something and kind of was like, Amanda, I need your help. I think Kyle looks at it like the business is also their family. Sure. Because it's the financial roots for whatever their future is.

Starting point is 02:10:34 And so I think his gripes come from like Loverboy's success is like our family success. I think that's how he sees it. But I think when he says it out loud, it just sounds so fucking corporate, and when it's your wife, it just reads terribly wrong. You know what I mean? And I appreciate his pressures. I mean, yeah, if I had a $4 million loan out,

Starting point is 02:10:55 I mean, that's a lot of pressure. Yeah, is that, I don't even know what- That's what he said on the show. He's like, he took out a $4 million loan. This season, did he say that? No. Yeah. Really? He said it on the after show. You don't watch the after show?

Starting point is 02:11:06 I stopped, yeah. That's probably good for your mental health. Yeah, I just stopped watching it. Yeah. Our caller is here. Our caller is here. Whoa! Oh, you wanna give someone relationship advice?

Starting point is 02:11:14 Dude, yeah. And then we'll finish up by- Actually, do you feel like I'm capable of it? Yeah, I do. Okay, cool. Just being- You think I'm all right? We'll see.

Starting point is 02:11:21 Do you think you've made mistakes in dating? Yeah. Do you have you learn from any of them? I think so. Okay, then I think you can give advice? Yeah. Do you have you learned from any of them? I think so. Okay, then I think you can give advice. Cool. All right, let's bring them up. Having a baby makes it a little bit harder

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Starting point is 02:15:54 and use code V I A L L. How's it going? Hi, well I'm Rachel. I'm 26 and I'm super confused because a guy who I somewhat dated for a year But he wasn't ready for a relationship. You're perfect for this So we brought in a fuck boy I mean this might be a short and sweet answer I mean, this might be a short and sweet answer. If you're okay with maybe like a little harsh truth, I think maybe you two were not a match, and I think he might've used the not ready excuse,

Starting point is 02:16:35 and I think it's best for both of you, and I think just kind of accepting that it wasn't right, wasn't ever gonna be meant to be, and just moving on, and it's easier to move on if you think he's kind of an asshole, you know, and kind of have a little bad taste in your mouth, honestly. When you say you kind of dated, what do you mean by that? Oh, I know exactly what you mean by that.

Starting point is 02:16:56 Yeah, but I wanna hear, I wanna hear in her words. Well, so we went to high school together, and we like reconnected recently because we're both like graphic designers. And so we yeah, we were just like talking for a year, we would go on dates essentially, like we would go to the movies, we would like cook dinner at his place. But did he ever say I want to take you on a date? My big thing and I say this a lot on the show, you know, and it's a popular conversation

Starting point is 02:17:26 on summer house, even Vanderpump with like Joe and Swartz or whatever, but like people go to the movies with their friends, they have dinner with their friends, they introduce their parents to their friends, they even have sex with their friends. And given the way that like hookup culture is these days, like doing these activities do not make someone a boyfriend or a girlfriend and it doesn't make it a date unless someone actually says, hey, I'd like to take you on a date or you should come over and actually names the thing, because otherwise it's just hanging out.

Starting point is 02:17:54 All right. Was he paying for shit all the time? Yeah. I mean, I guess, still. Yeah. I get where you're coming from, but given the way daters are today, unless you are saying, unless you're coming from. But given the way daters are today, unless you are saying, unless you're naming it the thing, you're just giving,

Starting point is 02:18:11 yeah, anyway, how many outs to just be like, well, you know, I thought we were just hanging out. I thought we were just making dinner. Did it, how did it end? Because you, did you DTR'd it? And he said no? Well, so he had gotten out of a long-term relationship before we started hanging out.

Starting point is 02:18:28 And I had, like three months in, I had like gone and kissed him at the end of a date. And he was like, whoa, whoa, whoa, like I'm not ready for anything yet. Like I'm not ready for a relationship. And I was like, that's totally fine. I'll respect that. And we like kept hanging out. out and then a couple months ago,

Starting point is 02:18:48 he had kind of started ghosting me a little and just posted with a new girl, posted on his Insta story with a new girl, hard launched. And I was like, hey. If he swerved your advance though, then it sounds like he kind of at least put up a boundary in a way Like he wasn't just out here trying. I mean sure do you know I'm saying though. I mean a little bit What do you mean by boundary he he he pushed back the physical part of it?

Starting point is 02:19:17 Which I think guys typically don't worry all having sex No, no, no, they were kissing. Yeah, I think he really enjoyed your company. I think he felt safe around you. I think he liked spending time with you. I think you play, that's the thing. It's like that's, and that's a shitty part, you know, with men and women these days and dating is, you know, them being poor communicators. Because I think you are valid and to feel like

Starting point is 02:19:40 these dinner dates or these dinners that you had or the movies you went on felt dating, you know? And I think a lot of people like having someone play the role of a boyfriend or a girlfriend because it's nice to have that companionship in that company. And they like, and they don't wanna name it because they don't wanna have the expectations

Starting point is 02:20:01 of someone being like, like expecting you to hang out with him tomorrow, or expecting you to be like, hey, are you texting anyone else, and things like that? And I think when he says he's not ready, that's really code for, I don't like you enough. I think that's probably what hurts the most, is because he said that and then did the opposite

Starting point is 02:20:20 right after. I think that's why this stings probably more than it normally would. Because the truth is, I think most men are that, no offense. It's okay. I'm just fucking with you. But like, yeah, men are, like, they don't get into relationships because they're ready. They get into relationships because they want to be with that person or they can't believe

Starting point is 02:20:42 that person's hanging out with them and they're excited and they don't give a shit about ready you know but it's their readiness is a super convenient thing to say when it's someone they're like I don't know fun cool I like to cuddle but I just don't want you to have to ask me anything and I don't wanna have to do something that you ask when I don't, you know, they don't wanna compromise. They don't, you know. But when it's someone they really like, they will do it. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:21:15 Yeah. It's like literally. Everything I just said the last hour. Yes, absolutely. So did you reach out to him when he posted this photo with this new girl? Yeah, so I reached out and I was like, he probably loved that though.

Starting point is 02:21:34 Yeah, I saw your Instagram story, what's up? And he had said like, yeah, so my guy friends like set me up with this girl. It wasn't even his choice. They knew that would be a good match. Fuck. He was forced to get a relationship that they post for him too.

Starting point is 02:21:53 Pro tip, if you still have feelings for him and him posting that hurt a little bit and there's gonna be more of it, you don't have to, don't block him, but do a little mute. A mute is so tasteful and good for you. It's so healthy, just a nice mute. And you'll forget he existed in like two weeks.

Starting point is 02:22:09 Yeah, that's so true. Yeah. So to be clear, and were you just looking for these types of, this type of information? Were you like, what, we didn't really get into like, what exactly you were looking for in terms of understanding this? Yeah, just like the guy perspective of like, I don't know why he would have done that. He was a little

Starting point is 02:22:30 selfish. He was he enjoyed your company. He thought you were a cool hang. You were you were and you were probably very accommodating I'm guessing. You were probably very available when he needed it and that was really nice and my guess is when you went in for a kiss or you made a move that available when he needed it. And that was really nice. And my guess is when you went in for a kiss or you made a move, that's when he probably changed his behavior and blamed it on him not being ready. And again, in the history of mankind, I don't think a guy's ever actually avoided a relationship

Starting point is 02:23:01 because he wasn't ready. I think a lot of guys get in a relationship as not being ready at all. But if they're like, she's hot enough, they will get ready real fast. Or their perception of what they want. Or you know what I'm saying? Their perception of what they think. Obviously, you know.

Starting point is 02:23:21 I just don't think he's your guy. He's not your guy. And it might happen again, but every time this happens, we learn a little bit, So it's, I just don't think he's your guy. He's not your guy. Yeah. And it might happen again, but every time like this happens, we learn a little bit. And next time, you know, when that excuse is used, you'll be like, I know better, you know? And the thing is, is like, you probably hung up

Starting point is 02:23:35 for the same reasons, but you appreciated it differently. You know, you probably, like you've known him for a while, you felt safe around him. You felt, you know, you liked and you valued those because you probably are. The truth is, he's probably you know, you liked and you valued those. Because you probably are, in fact, the truth is, he's probably not lying when he says he's not ready. You can feel good about that.

Starting point is 02:23:50 But his willingness to enter into this relationship with her, you don't even know why. You know what I'm saying? You don't know what it is about her, what like trauma she triggers from him, you know what I'm saying? Like maybe she's, maybe she is really good at being unavailable to him and that's the very thing that he's excited about

Starting point is 02:24:09 is her doing the thing that you didn't do. You gave him the security and availability that would be healthy in a relationship and he is probably not ready for that. So if you wanna feel better about her, she's probably not his guy either. She's probably not his guy either. She's probably not his guy. So, but he's definitely, I wouldn't lose a lot of sleep

Starting point is 02:24:33 and wondering, like, you didn't do anything wrong. He, he, he's, yeah. He's like, he's at, that's all. Sure. Hell yeah. So, when was the last time you heard from him? What did he, yeah. About a month ago.

Starting point is 02:24:49 Because yeah, he texted me that and then I just didn't respond. There you go. Love that. Yeah. Yeah, that's a good move. How much energy have been, how much time have you been thinking about it?

Starting point is 02:24:58 Not necessarily losing sleep, but definitely like it crosses my mind quite often. What specific? Because it's still kind of fresh. What specific part? Just like what did I misread or what did I not offer him that he didn't want to put a label on it. I think the first question's a great question.

Starting point is 02:25:15 The second question's a total waste of your time. Like it's not you. That's probably true. You know, I wouldn't let him make you feel less about yourself. I don't think you could have done anything differently. Was he love bombing you? Like was he telling you, like giving you words?

Starting point is 02:25:29 Obviously, you know, he dodged a kiss, but was he telling you things you wanted to hear? A little. Like things about the future and shit like that? Yeah, yeah. We talked about the future a little bit. Uh. How, in what way?

Starting point is 02:25:43 So we were, there was one specific time I remember where we were like we went ice skating. We were ice skating and we were talking about Christmas because it had just passed. And we were talking about how my family always opens gifts Christmas morning.

Starting point is 02:25:57 His family opens gifts Christmas Eve. And he was like, would it bother you if my family open gifts on Christmas Eve? Like, would that bug you? He said that? He has that to you? No. Yeah, he said that to him.

Starting point is 02:26:08 That's kind of a dick move by him. Not the Christmas present opening present. Also, I don't want you dating anyone. I know. The presumptive clothes. I don't want you dating anyone who opens other fucking presents on Christmas Eve. Yeah, I would agree.

Starting point is 02:26:19 That's sick. That's gross behavior. It's one present Christmas Eve, the rest Christmas morning. How did you respond to that question? Absolutely. I was a little flustered, honestly. I was like, oh, yeah, that's totally fine. Yeah, that'd be great.

Starting point is 02:26:31 So pro tip for the future. And he just moved on. So pro tip for the future. Next time you get in one of these situationships where you're kind of playing house and you're playing boyfriend and girlfriend, you're doing the boyfriend and girlfriend things without the title or a label,

Starting point is 02:26:44 don't be okay with those types of questions. You don't have to be a jerk about it. and you're playing boyfriend, you're doing the boyfriend and girlfriend things without the title or a label, don't be okay with those types of questions. You don't have to be a jerk about it, but you can be playful, be like, I don't know, I don't answer those, I don't play house, I don't, you know, you can like, I don't know, we're not boyfriend and girlfriend. Make him feel like he doesn't have you already, you know?

Starting point is 02:27:03 But like when he is asking these presumptive questions and you're kind of following suit, be like, no, it wouldn't bother me. You know what I'm saying? You aren't getting- You could be like, ask me again when we're dating. Yeah. Yeah, that's a great answer.

Starting point is 02:27:14 Oh yeah. You know? And you do it playfully, but don't indirectly or verbally act or say that you are, in fact, kind of like his girlfriend if he hasn't done anything to earn that. Like if he hasn't been like, hey, I want to actually be with you or I want to don't give them the good, you know, like without earning it, you know, type of thing. So that's in the future. It's very easy to get caught up when, because you're, you know, when we're in

Starting point is 02:27:40 those situations, we want that validation. We want like, hey, what are we? We don't want to have to ask. It's awkward. So they'll, we'll take questions like that as some sort of affirmation or confirmation that like, oh no, like they do like me. But I think that's a very tricky thing. So like, if the only time you should define the relationship should come from actually defining the relationship, not a suggestion of a relationship or like not a suggestion to do a boyfriend or girlfriend thing, they actually have to say it. Damn Nick. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:28:14 Nick's spittin' on you. Yeah, I was just kind of like accepting the breadcrumbs from him. Totally normal, we've all been there, I've done it. Like we all get excited about someone and let them off the hook. But in the future, if they're not yours yet, then they're not yours at all. Period. Damn.

Starting point is 02:28:37 Yeah, that's good. And let them feel that. The more you act like you don't, you know, you aren't available, you know, you don't wanna get too gamey because honestly it's good to know, it's good for you to find out that he wasn't serious about this thing. And I'd hate for him to only respond to your unavailableness,

Starting point is 02:28:55 but it's still good to practice to not read into things people say or do, especially when it comes to playing house. Yeah. Summerhouse. Anything you wanna add? You're so good with words. I'm impressed by you.

Starting point is 02:29:16 Thanks, Austin. I think you said it very well. But I think ultimately not worth your time, this guy. And yeah, that mute thing's gonna save your life. Mute his Instagram. Because if that's what triggered you first, it's gonna keep doing it, you know? And I think you responding,

Starting point is 02:29:33 that's a little serotonin for him, unfortunately. But also you not responding. Yeah, that's huge. Yeah. Yeah, that's good. If he ever reaches out again. Ghost that fucking guy. Almost certainly, if and when this fades out for him,

Starting point is 02:29:46 you'll be his first call. Yeah. Because again, you're that person who is safe and easy to be around, and that, you have to be mindful. You should, that's a great quality that you have, but don't let them use you, right? Because we allow people to use us, because we think it gets the thing that we want.

Starting point is 02:30:07 It's just like, well, he's gonna finally appreciate me for what I gave him. And no, it's not appreciation, he's just using you. He has to give you something he hasn't given you yet. His availability isn't enough. If you ever were to reconsider hanging out with him, he would have to come correct up front and be like, hey, I'm sorry, I treated you this way, and I'd like to hang out with you. And you would be like, well, why do you wanna hang out with him, he would have to like come correct up front and be like, hey I'm sorry I treated you this way and I'd like to hang out with you and you

Starting point is 02:30:27 would be like well why do you want to hang out with me? I'm not interested in like just having another like playhouse situation. I would have that conversation very much up front if you were to reach out again. Don't let them do the whole like hey you know just like sorry that happened you know. I was drunk. I was working on myself, you know. But do you wanna hang out again, you know? But like just, you know, I'm not ready because obviously I just got off this past relationship.

Starting point is 02:30:54 You know, but if you wanna go to the movie, I'd be totally down. None of that, no, don't entertain it. Yeah. Yeah. Let us know if he reaches out. Will do, yeah. Hell yeah.

Starting point is 02:31:03 All right. All right, well, sorry I had to deal with it, but you're not alone. You know, you live and you learn. You do. You'll do, yeah. Hell yeah. All right. Well sorry I had to deal with it but you're not alone. You know you live and you learn. You do. You'll be totally fine, I am certain. Yeah. All right. We'll take care. Thank you for the call. See ya. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you guys. All right. Bye. Bye. See, you were perfect. Yeah, you carried but it's good. Yeah. What's next for you Wes? I'm here for a little bit. Yeah, you carried but it's good. Yeah. Um, what's next for you, Wes? Um, I'm here for a little bit. Oh, actually I'm throwing the first pitch at a Royals game on June 13th. Hell yeah. Which I'm fired up about. For the Royals? Baseball

Starting point is 02:31:36 team. But for who? Kansas MLB. No, I'm a fucking aware of the baseball team MLB. You said who are the Royals? I didn't wanna. Like what? Like, cause, you know, state are we in. That will be super fun. All like my boys will be there. Fam's gonna go. Are your parents, you mention your parents a lot, do they ask you, do they want you to settle down? Are you getting the pressure?

Starting point is 02:31:58 My dad more so than my mom. I do think they have seen my lack of relation, it's not skills, I guess it's just the ability to fully commit, fully settle down, and I think my dad is kinda like really spooked. Oh. My mom will like reference it, but then be like,

Starting point is 02:32:19 uh-huh, we're not worried, it's fine. You're being honest and doing what you want. Which at the end of the day though, I am kinda like, okay, it's still like my decision. Do you wanna be a dad? I do, but I don't, I see it for a future, but I don't wake up and think, I don't crave parenting and that shit right now.

Starting point is 02:32:41 I've always wanted to be a dad, but I don't think I've ever woke up and been like, you know what I really wanna do right now is you know? I've always wanted to be a dad, but I don't think I've ever woke up and been like, you know what I really wanna do right now is change a diaper, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, before Natalie and I had a kid, she would reference like maternal, like this desire like to have a baby, you know?

Starting point is 02:32:56 You were in heat is what we call it. Yeah. You were in heat. And as much as I've always wanted to be a dad, I can't say that I ever related to that type of feeling. Right, well I think that's genetic in a way. But you do someday want to be a father. Yeah, I also, I love my grandparents

Starting point is 02:33:11 and have a great relationship with them and I have a sprinkle of guilt that I'm sure, I know my dad cares a little that I'm. That they can see a grandchild. Or just he's gonna be fucking 65 or 70 when that happens. And I feel bad, but again, I think about that and then I'm like, that shouldn't be the reason I go into... Absolutely not.

Starting point is 02:33:35 So you have two younger, no. I just have one younger brother. One younger brother, how old is he? 24, 25. Is he like... He lives in Chicago. He has only had girlfriends. Yeah, of Chicago. He has only had girlfriends. Yeah, of course.

Starting point is 02:33:48 He's a relationship guy. Huge. Uh-huh. I was just in Portugal with him and his girlfriend. Are you a good, I bet you are a great third, fifth wheel. Yeah, the best. Yeah. Huge.

Starting point is 02:34:00 That's a great trait. Yeah. To not be the annoying single person who's always complaining about being single with your coupled friends. No, and I can't say wander off. Do you have any regrets when it comes to Ciara? I think, it was on Watch What Happens Live.

Starting point is 02:34:25 You can think about it. Yeah, I mean, I took her home, like she came home with me, and I think that to me, and we talk about this in the episode too, not a big deal to me. I think my parents are very approachable. I mean, they are my parents, but they're fun.

Starting point is 02:34:43 Like I like to go out to dinner with them, enjoy them. And it's just, there's not a lot of weight in that to me. Not that I don't care about them, I just don't think that's a big deal. I know that it is and I'm in the minority that way. And I know that it's a huge deal to Ciara. And I think I was maybe a little fucking, I don't know, like selfish.

Starting point is 02:35:07 And in my eyes, it's like opening up my, like it feels like I'm not being selfish, but I think it was selfish to maybe bring her into that situation and then not be, you know, fucking ready to go right after. And I know that her, her, and I obviously, it's not like I even wanna say I regret that, because I don't regret having a good time with my family, you know what I mean?

Starting point is 02:35:32 But if that made kind of how this unfolded like super distasteful because of that move, then I wish I would have handled that differently. Or maybe just thought broader more than just like, I'm going home this weekend, like let's do it, kind of thing. But as far as you guys just not working out, you were comfortable with that outcome?

Starting point is 02:35:57 Time will tell, I guess, but I mean, yeah, I'm okay. How are you gonna go into next season? I don't even know if they're gonna have me back. They're gonna have you back. For sure. I am maybe to a fault also. And this is like a red flag I realized, but I'm friends with most of my exes platonically, but just like I'm not. Yeah, no, I know. I know it is. I feel uncomfortable and it makes me anxious and tired to be standoffish, you know what I mean?

Starting point is 02:36:27 So I think if, I assume you're asking if we're both gonna be in the house together. Well, sure, but how are you gonna, cause I feel like it'll be like we just talked with Rachel, like a safe, you know, that was your first time in the house, it'll be a safe place to go, her bed, it's warm, like would you, are you gonna? I think, I mean, I would, we'd have to have a conversation.

Starting point is 02:36:47 I don't think I'd wanna like bring anyone home and put that in her face. That feels rude and pretty disrespectful, but. But eventually you're just gonna have to move on and she's gonna move on and Sarah will be just fine. She'll be cool. Yeah. But I think I would probably lead with friendly

Starting point is 02:37:04 and my personality is kind of friendly flirty all the time and I think I'd try that. I don't know if it would be well received, but I'm not good at cold shoulder ignore. I don't think she would talk to me, honestly. Really? I have no idea. So you would be yourself?

Starting point is 02:37:19 Yeah. I just, it sounds exhausting to like pretend to hate someone. It's not pretend to hate, and like, No, it's like, it's space. And to clarify, I think if you're a single person, being cool with your exes and being friendly with your exes is totally fine.

Starting point is 02:37:33 It's just like, eventually, when you do fall in love, whenever that is, like this girl of yours isn't gonna wanna be your number one girl, she's gonna wanna be your only girl. She's gonna wanna feel it, and she's not gonna wanna feel like, you know, you still talk, and like, who's this fucking chick reaching out to you, like, hey, Leif, we're going out,

Starting point is 02:37:51 and you're just like, you know, and she's gonna wanna see or hear you say things like, either not respond, or be like, you know, I got a girlfriend now, just not my thing, and she's gonna wanna feel your excitement and enthusiasm to say no Yeah, all these women who had access to you that you like in a way men do kind of like collecting I get you trophies in a way metaphorically speaking and the idea of having that roster or just like the ability to detect Someone that you're cool. You're still cool with because you never know

Starting point is 02:38:25 You're the girl you fall in love is gonna want you to like say goodbye to text someone that you're cool, you're still cool with, because you never know. You're, the girl you fall in love with is gonna want you to like say goodbye to that, all of that, you know, throw it out, flush it down the toilet. We had a talk, and it's in the last episode. She didn't love that I, so like, she essentially accused me of like nothing being serious, where I'm like, I say, I said like, love you. Like, you know, like leaving, or like downstairs, I said like, love you.

Starting point is 02:38:45 Like, you know, like leaving, or like downstairs, I don't even remember. Like whatever weekend. But I was like, I say love you to like, my boy. No, I get, I- No, no, no, I'm the same way. I like say love you to like, the mailman. Yes.

Starting point is 02:38:59 I'm like, thanks so much, love you, have a great day. No, I get that. But it's just like a self-awareness thing when you are dating someone. The point I brought up, I was like, I know it's a bigger deal, duh. But it feels weird for her to be awkward if I accidentally say love you,

Starting point is 02:39:15 and then it's like, why is it weird to say it to only you? But I'm saying it to Jessie and Amanda downstairs, and I said love, and it's a big deal. I know I get the weight that comes with that, I understand it, but like. Because it's like Jesse's not wondering. No, I know, I know, and that's what she said. How you feel about him.

Starting point is 02:39:35 And it was also that I like, I think I called her baby, but she heard me call like Carl baby or something like that, and I was like, yeah, I call all my boys like, babe. And that was a talk. That was a talk. She doesn't want to be one of the boys. No, I know.

Starting point is 02:39:49 And so it was just a, it was a conversation about like, I brought that up because you're saying, whoever it is is going to want all those moments to feel isolated and like be for them only. Yeah. And we had this convo and I get it. We're like, I was showing love, but I was also giving that love

Starting point is 02:40:08 to literally everyone else in the house. And so nothing felt like it had value to her. And so the learning lesson there, though, is I'm not gonna stop talking to other people the same way, not like humans, I'm saying, the same language and the verbiage that I use. I don't know, not like humans, I'm saying like the same language and like verbiage that I use. I don't know.

Starting point is 02:40:28 Do you get what I'm saying? I get what you're saying. That was just a convo where I'm like, I was like, fuck, I don't even know what to do here. But I think I said, I was like, you know, I hear you, I get where you're coming from. And so you want it, like, yeah, it all like needs to matter. And that was the same thing with my family where I was

Starting point is 02:40:45 Like if you want to come to the farm you can do it, but like it means that generally you're like Yeah, you can come or you can not come. I don't really care Yeah, it's all whatever love you, babe So I did yeah the takeaway is like be more serious I just need to figure out you out the right way to do that. Maybe more intentional. Intentional is a great word. Why don't you just try having a girlfriend?

Starting point is 02:41:10 No, I think. You can always break up. Yeah. No, you're so right. And it doesn't have to be this messy, dramatic, sad breakup. It can be just a listen. No worries.

Starting point is 02:41:18 Yeah, don't worry. But then I think, would whoever I date next, I'm like, listen, I'm trying this out. And you, like, to prove to people I can have a girlfriend. Not to people, to yourself. But yeah, like I'm using you to prove to my dad, Nick, and everyone else that I can have a girlfriend. Not sure that's the best.

Starting point is 02:41:37 I think it's more, I know, as I'm saying, but like. I think it's more, let's say, hypothetically speaking, you go out, you're on hinge, you match with a lovely lady, you're interested, you go out. I can't go back on there. Whatever. You have a drink. You enjoy the date.

Starting point is 02:41:50 You have a second date. Maybe there's some sex, maybe there's not some sex. I don't know. But you're thinking, you call up Jessie, you're like, hey man, I'm kind of excited about her. She's cool, you know? And then you probably talk about your past, and then that's the moment you could say

Starting point is 02:42:05 Can I be honest with you? Like I have a I I don't really have much of a past I've been a little kind of detached when it comes to like checking in but I want to do things differently I want to be more intentional with dating, but I just want to be upfront This is new territory for me, but like I really like you Yeah, and I want to see where this goes and and I wanna focus on getting to know you more. But I wanna commit. I wanna commit to only seeing where this goes and I don't wanna talk to other people

Starting point is 02:42:32 and I don't wanna sleep with other people and I don't know how I'm gonna feel in a month and I'm not gonna say things I don't mean but I really wanna get to know you more and I wanna focus on that. Why couldn't you say that? I could, I just don't think that I've ever like wanted to do that. Like I, you know what I'm saying?

Starting point is 02:42:47 He hasn't found that girl yet. People say that though, and I, that's what everyone says. It's like grandma says it, guy on the plane next to you says it, like everyone's like, you just haven't found the person yet. Well there's some truth to that. I pray to God that that is true, but I don't know if that's-

Starting point is 02:43:04 Well that, you're right. I mean, if you're so detached where you're just the idea of ever saying goodbye to your roster, you know. Oh. Yeah. Uh. And just be like, yeah, I'm not gonna respond

Starting point is 02:43:18 or reach out to like the random girlies that I'm cool or friends with. Yeah. Yeah, at some point you do kind of just have to try. I do. You're right. Are you in your DMs? I don't, it's like, I'll pop my head in,

Starting point is 02:43:34 but it's not, like you can't keep up with it. You're also not, like I went, I was in my 20s, all serious relationships. I had three serious relationships, had, you know, got my heart broken, broke hearts, did all that. In my 30s, I was single, I went on TV, I took a bunch of huge life risks. How old are you now?

Starting point is 02:43:54 43. Are you? Yeah. You could be 29. Thank you. Oh my God, yeah you could. I got very used to being single, and I had an actual fear, concern of like,

Starting point is 02:44:07 when I was 18, it was like, I didn't know any better. I was like, I like you, let's date. This is super simple. In my 30s, it was like, well, I like you, bud, I don't know. And I was just like, I had an actual concern of like, do I just like kind of pick someone and see where it goes Because like I don't know the difference between liking you and like like yeah, because I was so used to just dating around But with Natalie it was different, you know

Starting point is 02:44:42 And I gave a lot of fuckboy energy in the beginning to Natalie in our relationship. Ten months of it. Ooh! I got a receipt. And then she finally was like, peace out, fuck you. And I kinda had this thought where I was like, why, what am I doing? I should at least try. Like, I should, look, I could do the thing that I had always done, which is like,

Starting point is 02:45:01 I could date her and kind of be distant, and be distant, and then have it fade away, kind of how you described. And I had done that so many times in my 30s and then I was like, I could have had like three girlfriends in this time. That were great people. That could have gone somewhere, but I never actually tried.

Starting point is 02:45:18 So why don't I just try here and see where it goes? And then now I have a wife and a daughter and it's great. Yeah. I have also wife and a daughter and it's great. Yeah. I have also thought that. But, and then, you know, every thought, there's like a counter to it, especially when I'm thinking about like dating.

Starting point is 02:45:32 And I'm like, do I, then am I using someone to, I mean, in a way where I'm like, you're gonna be the person I try it with. But you have to genuinely like them. Yeah, of course. I cared about her, you know? And I saw a lot of reasons why I wanted to be with her. It wasn't like, I'm gonna use you here.

Starting point is 02:45:49 Yeah, to learn. I don't think you should do that with anybody. Yeah. I don't think your next hinge date, you know? But someone who- First date, hey, you're my girlfriend. But someone who kinda excites you. Yeah, for sure.

Starting point is 02:46:02 I do think, I think it's a combination of you haven't met the right one, and maybe there's some like emotional maturing that needs to happen. No, for sure. It's like a combination. I can wear it though. Like I know it is what it is.

Starting point is 02:46:15 I just, I'd like to, you know, wake up and be like, oh, here we are. But no, I do think it will require that active. Unfortunately for you, it's only gonna get harder, cause now you're famous. You think so? Yeah. You're the first person to say that. You're just gonna get. You're not.

Starting point is 02:46:32 Well, no, I mean, call me famous. No one's ever said that. Yeah, I mean, it's all relative, but you are. Like, you get noticed on the street, people are making TikToks about you. But either way, clearly you are a guy who's never not had options. And now you're only gonna have more options.

Starting point is 02:46:46 And options make it harder. Mm-hmm. I hear you. So would you say the door is shut with Sierra then? Oh, fuck. Why is this such a hard question? I mean, no, because nothing ever is, but I think this summer, we haven't spoken in a while.

Starting point is 02:47:11 Essentially, the reunion was it. And it doesn't look like that. I think we are both committed to going separate ways right now. Being friends, friendly. We'll see, I don't know. You're not even sure if that's on the table. I don't know. Do you think there's some frustration on her end?

Starting point is 02:47:32 For sure. Oh, okay. For sure. Yeah. Next time you saw her, if she was willing to have, like just hear you out, whatever that is, she was, what would you say to try to get back, at least on the?

Starting point is 02:47:45 I don't think she wants that right now. She's not interested in hearing anything. It would all sound like bullshit to her. Probably, okay. Yeah, but I respect this, like, you know, if that's your move, I'll always honor it, you know? So, I'm not gonna. He respects boundaries, everyone.

Starting point is 02:48:04 Yeah, I try, so it's all good Summer is coming up. Yeah, I'm gonna be myself and however that interaction goes I will be respectful per usual and if you know Whatever she says whatever her boundaries are we'll do that. Okay, you know, whatever she says, whatever her boundaries are, we'll do that. Okay. You know? Great answer, yeah. I look forward to seeing your next girlfriend

Starting point is 02:48:29 on some rounds. God, dude, I don't wanna fucking do that again. And people just care so much. It's insane. That's the, you want them to care. Yeah, I know. Yeah. But wow.

Starting point is 02:48:43 I just had no clue. Just bravo in general. No, no. You were like, I just went to a bar. Yeah, I just went to a bar to sign a napkin. Yeah. And here we are. Here you are. Does anyone know that story? I told it during the confessional I didn't use it.

Starting point is 02:48:54 But I have a picture of the napkin signed. It's pretty crazy. It's great. Yeah. What was the name of the podcast? I don't know if we got to a name. Which usually I think that would be the first drunk person thing to think of.

Starting point is 02:49:08 But it was like, the hook I remember was women who weren't fluent in sports. Like a co-host woman. That's not the most original idea. I guess not. And then like a sport guy. Sure. Doing like.

Starting point is 02:49:23 You're a sport guy? You'd be the sport guy and she was gonna be the person who knew just enough to be dangerous and she would ask questions at everyone, like who are the Royals? And then you would explain, it would be funny. I'd over explain. Yeah, you'd over explain.

Starting point is 02:49:37 MLB. Got it. Baseball. Yeah. Got it. Blue. Major league. People have had that idea before.

Starting point is 02:49:44 No, I know. That's why I think it's, I mean, it's funny because two drunk people with a dumb fucking unoriginal idea who think that it's killer in a bar is like. And you do. When you make that plan, you're like, this is gonna crush.

Starting point is 02:49:58 That's a chick. Yeah. Sign the napkin right here. Yeah. So that was that. Anything else you wanna get off your chest before I let you go Oh I mean, I don't really know uh

Starting point is 02:50:14 I don't think I have anything too crazy. Everyone just chill that chill out. You know, I'm saying well We really enjoyed getting to know you no, I you guys are awesome. It's really fun. Thank you Where's our where's our vacay? We really enjoyed getting to know you. No, you guys are awesome. It's really fun. Thank you. Where's our vacay? Well, it's planet, yeah. Oh my God, Nick is very interested in this. Spice it up. Spice it up.

Starting point is 02:50:36 Would I come back? Tomorrow, brother. Really? Yeah. I was a little nervous. I think Carl and Kyle are afraid to come on the show. Yeah, do you think that this show has kind of like a, people are a little scared? A little nervous. I think Carl and Kyle are afraid to come on the show. Yeah, do you think that this show has kind of like a, people are a little scared?

Starting point is 02:50:48 A little bit, yeah. This podcast might be the, what's the word? It's not condescending, but like, Judgment. Like the moral compass of reality TV, and if you're in this chair You're being like told what you're like right or wrong about or I guess maybe not in this chair But just like if you're being talked about

Starting point is 02:51:13 Yeah, I could see that I don't agree at all I don't think we are like righteous. Maybe is that the wrong word? I don't think so. I just think they're generally fair questions to ask some of the men who come on. Yeah. You know, I don't think we treat people differently, but if there's a question to be asked, I wanted to talk to you about

Starting point is 02:51:37 the things you talked about in relationship. Yeah, and I think one, I do think you're smart and like what you say is thought out and not just like, you're not just like talking shit. And two, I think you've, and like what you say is thought out and not just like you're not just like talking shit and Two I think you've you towards the end you started out you owned your whatever 30s fuck boy Whatever like I'd never felt like you were talking at me It was more of like a calm but like we were discussing things that like we have both experienced not shit that you were saying Yeah, yeah, Z. Yeah.

Starting point is 02:52:05 But I could say though from like, if you're someone watching whatever you say like from home on your phone, it's gonna be really hard to like not feel that way. No, I get that. I'm of the opinion, like there's a reason why you're here. And that is because despite what you thought or heard or feared or worried about,

Starting point is 02:52:23 that you like, you weren't afraid about, that you weren't afraid of answering questions, you weren't afraid of being asked questions, you had nothing to hide, and I think anyone who comes on the show, even if they have concerns, they always leave with a very different experience for like, that was fun or whatever, and I think the people who never come on, there's a reason why they don't come on,

Starting point is 02:52:43 because I will ask people hard questions Yeah, even hard like just real direct questions like when we had sand of all on it was this like What have you learned about the experience? Would you ever do that again? Wasn't his super? Not reflective at all for I saw it clip out or something. It's that I would never cheat that way again. It didn't land the whole pod it was He said I would never cheat that way again. It didn't land. The whole pod? It was, it was.

Starting point is 02:53:05 Oh, it was brutal. From what I've seen is just that he's still to the, it's like not very. He's just the yeah, but guy. Gotcha. You know? Yeah. And so I didn't even, I was trying for it to go well

Starting point is 02:53:17 for him. To like get him, yeah. Just like, you know, and he just, I can't, I'll lead a horse to water. Yeah. You know? But if you don't, if you're not willing to reflect or acknowledge, I would ask Kyle about his relationship with Amanda.

Starting point is 02:53:32 I would ask Carl about his career choices. If he doesn't want to be asked those questions, he'll never come on. Where you knew I was gonna ask you these questions about dating and relationships, you came. Yeah, well I just think a convo is always so much better than literally any other option. I don't think there's a person who's come on the show

Starting point is 02:53:52 who was willing to be asked basic questions who didn't come off better than going in because they were willing to go there. Except for Homeboy? Yeah. Really great. No, same ball. No, same ball. Yeah. Yeah.boy. Yeah. You look great. No, Sandball. Sandball.

Starting point is 02:54:05 Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. He's the only other, besides Andy, the only other Missouri Bravo guy. That's right, yeah. Mm-hmm.

Starting point is 02:54:15 So we're like two for three. Well, I just lumped myself in, that was selfish. Have you met Andy? Oh yeah. Yeah. I think Tom said it best a couple weeks ago where he acknowledged that he's not the sharpest guy. As what though, like a scapegoat for doing dumb shit?

Starting point is 02:54:34 I think Tom is selfish, yes, but I think he's become an easy scapegoat where I think he is a reactive, passionate guy and he's into his own world and I just, it's like he is who he is. And I think sometimes people are expecting him to be something he's just never gonna be. And I, you know.

Starting point is 02:54:52 People said that about Lindsay. Or actually, not to even bring that back up, but I thought it was a great scene when Jesse walks downstairs and he's like, yo, Carl, hasn't Lindsay always kinda been like this? And Carl's like, yeah, and Jesse's like, he signed up for all this. And's like yeah, and Jesse's like yeah He signed up for all this and like Lindsay is Lindsay though. She's never not been totally. She's great. She's her so

Starting point is 02:55:13 Yeah All right, buddy This has been fun man. I really enjoyed it. I had a lot of fun. I appreciate that. I wonder if we'll get a response from I had a lot of fun. I appreciate that. I wonder if we'll get a response from Kyle and Carl. No, no, we'd love to interview them. I'm we're doing an event in Chicago next weekend together. Yeah, tell him I said hi I will. Yeah. Oh, I will. I've had some mutuals of not I don't know I don't have any mutuals of Kyle, but I have mutuals of Carl and he has not responded. Hmm I think he was upset about the Lindsay interview. Oh I've heard it's just like you know, he's uh I think he was upset about the Lindsay interview. We did, yeah. Oh. We put Lindsay on.

Starting point is 02:55:45 I've heard it's just like, you know, he's a... Which I, I'll be honest, I don't love that. Which part? No one has gotten more criticism than me on reality TV. I've gotten it all. And I just always- When you were on it or like now? Both.

Starting point is 02:56:02 Both, yeah. But like if, I'm always down to have a conversation with someone who like has like fair questions because I'll answer them. You know? And I just think if you're so afraid to address simple questions, it says more about you than it does anything else.

Starting point is 02:56:17 Yeah. I just wonder, how long were you on TV for? Three years. I just feel like these people have done it for, not these people, Carl and Z, Kyle. Like it's been eight years of like, I just, I think it would be challenging to not, I just think you could see yourself

Starting point is 02:56:37 only as your fucking TV character after so long and like. I think that's what's going on with Sandable. Yeah, and it's fucking crazy. And I- I don't think he knows when the camera stopped yeah and so then it just becomes like your life could be protecting the TV character and it's just like a slippery slope yeah it's interesting but I don't know that's not a fact I just like I think it happened I think there's a lot truth to that you know sorry you guys are trying to say bye like eight times I love talk I just think it could happen. I think there's a lot of truth to this. Sorry, you guys are trying to say bye like eight times. I love talk, I just don't,

Starting point is 02:57:08 I don't wanna be respectful of your time. I don't think I have anywhere to go. I don't know what time, you're the only one who's got time. He's probably somewhere to go. He's already to go. But yeah, I'm chilling. You wanna plug anything? Dude, no, I have nothing to plug.

Starting point is 02:57:22 Where can people follow you? Instagrams, I'll plug complex sports though. That's where I'm writing and producing. Okay, is that hard to have a job and be a TV star? Right now it's a lot, yeah. Yeah. But I think complex is gonna lean into it and we're gonna like pilot a show here in a week or two.

Starting point is 02:57:39 We'll see what happens, but that'll be cool. Starring you? As like a host. I've been like a host for most of my journalism career I guess you could call it. Was that your major? I did dude I did business cuz I didn't know what the fuck I wanted to do. Smart. I did business. I was an accounting major. Yeah I was marketing. Accounting sucked. I hated it. Okay. Sorry. I did hate it. Do we have to go? Yeah. Anyways, bye. Later.

The Viall Files - E762 GD w/ West Wilson - Summer House, Girlcode, Sleep Training, and Perfect Match with Tolú

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