The Viall Files - E764 RR - Summer House, Perfect Match w/ Elys, Father’s Day Icks, Kenya Moore Suspended, and RHONJ

Episode Date: June 18, 2024

Welcome back to reality recap. Today we start off with Nick’s first Father’s Day. Then we get to our drama: Kenya Moore being indefinitely suspended from the current season of RHOA, Football Player, Isaiah Bugs being arrested AGAIN, and Lindsay Hubbard being grilled at the Summer House Reunion Part 2. Meanwhile, Elys Hutchinson from Perfect Match joins us to talk about her experience on the show! “you know what? I was wrong.” Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes. To Order Nick’s Book Go To: http://www.viallfiles.com  If you would like to get some texting advice send an email to [e-mail] with “Texting Office Hours” in the subject line! To advertise on the show, contact [e-mail] or visit https://www.advertisecast.com/TheViallFiles  THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS: Article - Article is offering our listeners $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more. To claim, visit https://www.ARTICLE.COM/viall  BÉIS - BÉIS is offering our listeners 15% off your first purchase by visiting https://www.BeisTravel.com/VIALL  ZOA Energy - Find Where To Buy At https://www.ZOAEnergy.com  Sundays For Dogs -  Get 40% off your first order of Sundays. Go to https://www.sundaysfordogs.com/VIALL or use code VIALL at checkout. Huggies - Learn More At https://www.Huggies.com  Dreamland Baby - Go to https://www.dreamlandbabyco.com and enter my code VIALL at checkout to receive 20% off sitewide + free shipping. Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @nnataliejjoy @elys_hutchinson @raminsetoodeh @ciaracrobinson @justinkaphillips @leahgsilberstein @dereklanerussell @allisonklemes @kymccarthy23 Timestamps: 00:00 - Intro 02:55 - Father’s Day 08:11 - Housekeeping 11:40 - RHOA19:38 - Football 22:03 - Bachelor Credit 23:04 - Red Lobster 30:33 - The Apprentice 43:28 - Jenn’s Men 01:08:55 - Picking Noses 01:14:59 - Summerhouse 01:33:39 - Perfect Match 01:40:19 - Elys Joins 02:02:19 - More Perfect Match 02:06:20 - RHONJ 02:11:46 - Outro

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Base has the personal items covered. Right now BASE is offering our listeners 15% off your first purchase by visiting base travel dot com slash vi all go to base travel dot com slash vi all for 15% off your first purchase that is be is travel dot com slash vi all gravel.com slash V I a L L. What's going on everybody. Welcome back to another captivating episode of the Vile Files Reality Recap Edition. I am your host, Nick, joined by the household. And boy, do we have a lot to cover. I hope you all had a great week and I hope all the fathers out there had a great Father's Day. I know I did. Thanks to my lovely wife, Natalie.

Do you want to tell them? Do you want it? Should I tell them? You should tell them. Start from the second that you opened your eyes in the morning. Yeah, we want all the details. I thought you just wanted to talk about the gift. No, no, I want you to talk about how I made the entire day so lovely.

Oh my God, it was just an absolutely cherishable Father's Day, just a real gem of a day. It was, I cherish it. Don't you want me to cherish it? No, of course. You've made it cherishable. Cherishable. Sounds like perishable.

Aw. Let's see, at 10.30 the night before, we put River to bed and she was crying. And what did you ask me to do at 10.30 at night, the night before Father's Day? And I said, it's Father's Day weekend. She goes, that doesn't count. No, you don't get the whole weekend.

I said, I'm not getting out of bed. It was six, restart the wifi. Ah, yes, it was restart, we were having wifi problems and Natalie wanted to watch some late night TV and I'm like, it's Father's Day weekend, she goes, that doesn't count. I said, it's Father's Day, not Father's Weekend. And I said, I'm not getting out of bed.

Anyways, that's how that started. And then I went to bed, little baby River woke up, and I said, let me welcome her into this day, it's Father's Day, to which I did, and we had a nice little moment. Well, like, see, every time you go and greet River out of her crib, she is smiling, waiting for you,

and it's the absolute best, it's the best way to start a day. I hope you get to enjoy that, Leia. I'm excited for you. We're gonna miss you when you're gone. Leia is how many months away from leaving? Well, you're coming back. I'm coming back, I'm coming back,

but about a month, month and a half. Maternity leave. We'll see how things go. We'll see how it goes. But I hope your child smiles for you, like our child smiles for us. Thank you, I appreciate that. If not, then.

Yeah, we hope you have a happy baby, not a sad one. And then, what, well then your gift. I mean, we- Yeah, the day. We cuddled. Spare no detail. We looked into each other's eyes, we said I love you, we had, like- Natalie, how was Father's Day? Yeah, what the fuck is going on? I got a really nice card.

Well, I don't remember every single moment. This is like the epitome of men. It's like, tell me, like, I wanna know everything. And it's like, ah, it's just like, yeah, and then like the gift. I do the same thing, so. Thank you, Justin. Like talking about ourselves is harder.

Nali's been hyping up this gift. She, her Father's Day gift for a long time, she's like, I got the most amazing gift, you'll never guess what it is, but like every day, do you wanna guess, do you wanna guess, do you wanna guess, do you wanna guess? Or like, do you wanna open it, do you wanna have it now, do you wanna have it now? It's like the second I got it, I was like, okay, do you wanna guess? Do you wanna guess? Do you wanna guess? Do you wanna guess? Do you wanna guess?

Or like, do you wanna open it? Do you wanna have it now? Do you wanna have it now? It's like the second I got it, I was like, okay, should we just do Father's Day now? He's like, no, for literally a month. I think I had it for a month. Are you bad at surprises?

Oh my God, yeah. The second I get it, I'm like, should we just do it now? I am also, I'm so bad at surprises. And then I want, yeah, I want him to guess. And then when he guesses other things, I'm like, fuck, should I have gotten that? No. And then when he guesses other things, I'm like, fuck, should I have gotten that? No. And then if he does guess it, I'm like,

the fuck, why would you guess that? So a lot of landmines, obviously, for potential gifts. Now they brought the gift out, and then I was like, do I need to cry? I felt like I possibly, there was just a lot of, she had been talking about this gift for a long time. She did tell me I did not need to cry. However I did.

I mean it was, moist, my eyes got moist. I don't know if a tear actually went down, but there was moist eyes. Many of you may or may not know that for our wedding, Friday night we had a welcome party that was Western cowboy themed. Country chic. Country chic, if you will.

And then you all heard our honeymoon horror story that began with me putting the cowboy hat on top of the car and then lost the hat. And I opened up the gift and I actually thought it was the exact same hat that Natalie even went and found. She stole it. No, I thought maybe. no, I thought maybe like. She went back, she walked down the streets.

I thought she found it and like hit it the whole time and it was like gonna be a Father's Day gift, but it's not the exact same hat. She got a new hat, exact replica, I couldn't tell the difference, even had River Rose, which was branded into the hat when I got it. It's amazing, it looks great. I now have my cowboy hat back, which I know it's not the same hat that I got it. It's amazing, it looks great. I now have my cowboy hat back,

which I know it's not the same hat that we got married in, but even better now it's my Father's Day hat. So, you know. Sweet, and a replica of the bone party hat. A replica of it. That's a great gift. It's a great gift. It's an excellent gift.

It's truly could not have been a better gift. And don't forget the card. The card was amazing. It was from River and Natalie. They love me very much. River signed it with her footprints. Which they look giant as a parent. Well, it's also, that's a very hard thing to do.

Like to get a child's footprint, very hard. They don't wanna like, and it's like, I tried to like get all the feet down. It looks like she's got like eight toes on one foot. It was a little difficult, but it's the thought that counts. You crushed it. Thank you. Anyways, I hope the rest of the Fathers had some great Father's Day as well.

We have an amazing episode for you. We got Elise from The Perfect Match will be joining us later this episode to talk about all the drama. Boy, that's a messy, messy show. It's a great show, the messy show. It's basically, we don't need you anymore, Bachelor in Paradise.

We have Perfect Match, apparently. So, while Bachelor in Paradise has lost steam, Perfect Match is, don't worry, we have all the toxic people you could possibly imagine. Under one roof. And more. Before we get to that, we have coming up shortly, Ramin Set-Today, the co-editor-in-chief of Variety,

and also the author of Apprentice in Wonderland. Did any, none of us watch The Apprentice? Did any of us watch The Apprentice? It was a really big show back in the day. Zuck, one of our new guys. What should we call the new household members? We got some new household members. A new member of the household.

New household initiates. Adoptees. Yeah. Adoptees. Household and trainers. the household. New household initiates. Adoptees. Yeah. Adoptees. Household and trainers. In training. We have orphans. Orphans.

Household apprentice. Little, little orphan. Apprentice. Yeah. Whoa. Well, he's not a, well, he's hired. You're hired. You're hired.

You're hired, you're hired. That's from the show, right? You know, you're fired. You're fired. You're fired. Anyways, not to get into politics, because we don't, but our former president was the host of a reality TV show, which is kind of crazy to think about.

Speaking of presidents, I met Barack Obama. I don't know why you just want to like jump over that. I don't want to trigger our audience. We know how half of them feel. No, for sure. But I think honestly, it's like, if you could meet any president, past president. I would meet them all.

I would meet them all. I would shake every single one of their hands. I hope that's okay for you all. Yeah, I hope so too. I hope I'm not upsetting anyone by saying that the most powerful person in our country, the most power, you know what I'm saying? Yeah, I know what you're saying.

Like Ronald Reagan, I would shake his hand. He's dead. Well, I would. I don't agree with everything they've done, but I would say like, it's great to meet you, Mr. President, and I would tell people about it, but I wouldn't like necessarily vote for all of them. Barack reached out to shake Natalie's hand.

Through a crowd. Through a crowd. Wow. He shoved people out of them. Did not reach for mine. And I did look at Nick and I said, no one is going to believe that this happened. And Nick was like, I'll tell them.

I'll tell the world. And then I was like, I have to get a selfie. I have to ask him for one. Because again, no one's gonna believe it. And I followed him to the door and I said, excuse me Mr. President, can I please get a selfie. I have to ask him for one, because again, no one's gonna believe it. And I followed him to the door and I said, excuse me Mr. President, can I please have a selfie? And he said, no, I can't take selfies. But.

Oh. That makes sense though. Yes, he was funny. He was in a room full of influencers, literally. And we were all acting like the people, because everyone's losing their mind and everyone wanted to take a selfie. Yeah, you can't stop and take a selfie.

Take one, you gotta take one for everyone. In defense to Barack. Well, sure, I guess. He was on his way out, so we could have just, a quick one, you know, and then exited, but what are you gonna do? You gotta get shit, at least he shook my hand. For all you Apprent apprentice fans out there,

he's got all the inside tea, and he's also just a huge Bachelor of Reality TV fan. He's up to date on all things, a perfect match. We'll get to him. Plus we obviously have the finale of the Summer House reunion, part two Housewives of New Jersey drama. But boy, what's going on with the Housewives of Atlanta?

Yikes. So do you know Kenya Moore? I just heard of her. So Kenya Moore has been on the show since season five, like on and off. Let me. Of course I know who Kenya Moore is. OK. Yeah. Yeah. So can you win Miss America? Miss USA. Miss USA. Yeah. What's the difference? There's two, right? There's the both exist.

You're right. Miss USA and Miss Universe. Can we bring a picture of Kenya Moore? Well, the difference is one is the US of A, the other one is the universe. No, but isn't there a Miss America and Miss USA? Aren't there two different pageants? I think there's Miss of Model America. Can we get on Google? Let's figure it out.

I feel like it's Miss America and then you're Miss USA in representation in Miss Universe. How long ago did she win? Yeah, like 1990. That's been a minute. Yeah. 1993. 1993.

Oh, okay. Yeah. I was just a baby. I was one of the more. Like an OG Miss USA. Anyways, what'd she do? So this past week, Kenyamore was suspended indefinitely from filming Atlanta Housewives Season 16

after Revenge Porn. Aren't they in the middle of filming? Yes, so they're currently filming and allegedly. When was the last time a Housewife got suspended mid-season? I think this might be a first. I mean, LVP left while she was in suspense. No, she left after a reunion, or like she didn't come to the reunion.

No, I mean, mid-filming, not like airing or whatever. Mid-filming, come on in and say, you can no longer film with us. That is a strong network move yeah so basically allegedly Kenya was threatened by a gun by the new housewife so Brittany Edie allegedly threatened her with a gun so her response was at her hair spa event was also allegedly to display posters of the housewife performing oral sex so she did that bloggers that were at the event basically came out and were like, I'm appalled.

I was at this event. That is revenge porn. There was revenge porn on posters of this housewife. And then so she came out and she said, I would never engage in revenge porn. I have never distributed private images owned by others to sue or threaten or blackmail. So she said that, but then she was suspended and now the network is investigating the situation. So then she hopped on a live and she said, you will be seeing me, I'm not going anywhere

despite all the stuff surrounding whatever it is people decided they wanna write. So I feel like it would be pretty clear if she did it or not. Right, right? Like, first of all, this allegedly happened at a party with multiple people and then allegedly there was like hard copy evidence

of said revenge porn being passed around, like Mean Girls style. Printed out on posters. How have we not, not that it would be appropriate to reshare, but how has like at least, I assume they would want to black out images or things like that,

but why haven't we seen any of this evidence or photos of- It's on TikTok. It is, you have seen it. Yeah, there's like, there's's photos of the posters being leaned up against the wall and it's something horror and then it's covered. Oh, so you have seen the alleged evidence. I haven't seen the actual images,

but I've seen the posters. Thank God they were appropriately, yeah. Most of the images that are circulating is covered. You can see the rim of the actual poster behind another paper. So it's kind of implying that she had a reveal moment. So that's Kenya's defense. She's just saying, you're gonna the rim of the actual poster behind another paper. So it's kind of like implying that she had like a reveal moment. So that's Kenya's defense. She's, she's just saying, you're going to see more of me.

And she's implying that there's another side to the story. I know that she went on a live as well. And then when her live didn't hit over, she wanted a hundred thousand followers to tell the story and she had 11,500 and she was like, well, I guess I'm not gonna, gonna share everything. How many followers does she have? Millions. Millions?

Mm-hmm. Yeah. But 11, like on a live, 100,000? She has two million followers. Good for her, that's great. But 100,000 on a live is never gonna happen. I just don't. I don't know what you need.

I don't know if Kim Kardashian could do that, to be honest. I just don't know how you're a grown woman in today's day and age and you don't know if Kim Kardashian could do that, to be honest. I just don't know how you're a grown woman in today's day and age and you don't know the difference between revenge porn and it not being, where I'm like, you're printing out illicit images of one of your co-stars to embarrass her. So I'm like, regardless, what you did was wrong, but she's claiming that she's done nothing wrong.

She's saying that what she did isn't revenge porn, or she denied it. Or she didn't do it. I mean, this all happened within the past week, so it's a little unclear. She's saying that what she did isn't revenge porn, or she denied. Or she's saying she didn't do it. Or she's saying she didn't do it. I mean, this all happened within the past week, so it's a little unclear whether she's saying someone else put it there at her event, or like, I don't consider this revenge porn. But basically, this is in response to the feud

of allegedly Brittany Eadie, the new housewife, threatening her with a gun. Where did that come out of? Through the bloggers. Yeah, and like at her house, like at an event, like through text, like how did, like... These are just bloggers that... So like, I was telling Nick this, that even the New Jersey Housewives, Gia had said that all of the Housewives have bloggers at their events.

In Atlanta, we know like Candy, she's friends with a lot of her fan pages and invites people to dinners and stuff. So I think it's just like, the culture is that bloggers are at events so that they can start the rumors and like the drama. So like word of mouth. They're there to report the tea. Yeah, cause then housewives get mad cause they're like, well, you spilled this to the press.

No, I'm mad cause you spilled that. And then da da da da. Messy. But now people are basically comparing like Kenya Moore being suspended indefinitely to like Tom Sandoval and the revenge porn, but he still got to film the season. Not remotely the same. First of allandoval and the revenge porn, but he still got to film the season. Not remotely the same. First of all, Tom's alleged revenge porn

is very much alleged. We don't know for sure. All we have is an accusation from someone who's a known liar. Well, what is it called when you unknowingly record someone? Well, we don't even know for sure. I mean, we're going by Rachel's word that she didn't know versus I don't know if Tom even admitted

to recording without her knowledge. I mean, it's all alleged at this point. And the only person we know who's alleging this is Raquel. We also know Raquel's behavior around the whole Ariana stuff of like her suing Ariana for revenge porn for simply allegedly receiving said video back to her, which is a huge difference than printing out images and distributing them all over for actual,

our understanding of the story is that she did this allegedly for the intent of getting back at whatever was whatever you'd have whatever this other person did to Kenya Moore where the Tom Sandoval Rachel of it all this all happened because Ariana found out that they were having an affair and a lot of panic and you know in the moments following you know there was a lot of messages getting sent back and forth. Again, it's a very semantical argument, very different than what's going on with the Housewives

of Atlanta. Very much so. Yeah. And not even the same fucking ballpark. There's very much intent to hurt somebody with that and showing strangers images that are also like, where did you get these images? I don't know. I have so many questions, but at the same time, it's all wrong.

It's disgusting. And I'm glad that Bravo's actually taking a stance on it versus letting things fly by the wayside. That's next level. 1000%, but. That is very much revenge porn. Well, even Sarah and I were talking about it. Kenya's, you can say she's a wild personality,

but that's crossing a line that you don't think anybody crosses. Yeah, well, I mean, it's because they're out. They're literally using pornographic material for revenge, hence revenge porn, which is like it's gross and disgusting and... By definition. Which is different than very much the Tom's Hand of it all. Which this is still technically alleged.

So like it's not confirmed yet, but I think Bravo investigating it does have some legitimacy. Like gives it some credit that this might be true. But just another- But you also, Sierra saw- I mean, I saw the evidence from her event, so. So someone did it. Somebody did something with an intent to do something. Someone did something with some nudes.

And it looks pretty bad. And I don't think anyone would do that without the knowledge of the person hosting the party. So she. I don't think it was like, you know what, throw those around and put them up and then I don't think they had a change of heart. She won't notice.

There wasn't a change of heart that happened here. This was like gross and disgusting from the get. Well, speaking of gross and disgusting, Isaiah Buggs. Oh, the NFL player. Yeah, the Chiefs defensive lineman has been arrested for the second time in a month.

I just thought, my new thing is to point out all the really terrible things that the NFL players have done that no one seems to give a shit about. Like, Xavier Howard a couple weeks ago was also arrested for revenge porn. Arrested, I don't know, allegedly, I don't know, he's being sued. He's being sued, yeah.

It's gross. Basically, it's a gross story. His partner, he wanted his partner to get an abortion, allegedly she didn't, and then he allegedly sent her son revenge porn of her, and this particular NFL player has been arrested twice in the past month. Yes, so this time he was booked on a domestic violence burglary charge in Alabama.

County jail records shows Bugs was released on 5,000 Bond. And his prior charge on May 30th, he turned himself in because he was charged with two misdemeanor counts of second degree animal cruelty. Yeah, gross. Terrible, disgusting. And yet no one's talking about it. Let's keep talking about Harrison Bookner, Booker, whatever, and his opinions on whatever.

It blows my mind. Let's make that mainstream media, but let's keep these terrible people still, he's still playing? He's still on the roster. How do you get arrested for animal cruelty and burglary and violence and all of this stuff and then still get to play? And then still get to play.

I mean, Bug's agent has come out and he said that his client is a victim of ongoing subversive campaign to force the closure of the hookah lounge he owns in that county. Oh, domestic violence charges for hookah lounge? First of all, all hookah lounges should be closed at this point. What the fuck are y'all doing smoking hookah? That was such a thing in high school. Move the fuck on. It's a big thing in LA.

Everybody was smoking hookah and going to hookah bars. That was truly the thing to do. The thing to do. Yeah, and it's time to move on. No, but like every month, every week, I don't know, there's a new player being accused of some sort of terrible activity, and it's like back page news, but let's lose our shit over Harrison Buckner, by all means.

We're just, every week, an NFL player does something, we're just gonna give it its due attention. Piece of shit. Piece of shit, Isaiah Buggs, truly. Joey is not paying his bills? What's going on with our bachelor, our golden bachelor? Not the actual golden bachelor, but our real golden? Our golden boy bachelor.

Our golden boy bachelor, Joey? Yeah, he says he couldn't rent an apartment thanks to his credit score tanking during the bachelor, which, I mean, kind of makes sense. Like, I don't know. Did he just stop paying his bills? No, aren't you like kind of off the grid and you like Maybe he had a bill. He didn't he didn't have it on like auto pay Yeah, so it was like every month. He said on a podcast

I was at 730 and I went on the show and I had a payment from a credit card that I didn't answer for two And a half months. So he went from 730 and then that two months late knocked him down. Oh boy. Yeah, he's down to 80 points He's down to mid 600. You Ooh. That's going to be hard. You don't want to be dipping below 700. You can't, he couldn't get an apartment below... He couldn't get an apartment. So now he's moved in with Kelsey and her roommates and they're having a new girl situation in reverse.

Oh boy. Kind of cute. Good on Joey for being honest about that. Yeah. It's cute. You know what? I agree with you. Good on him for being honest about it.

Did y'all see that Flavor Flav launched a partnership with Red Lobster? Yes. And honestly, like, he obviously did it because Red Lobster is closing because, I'm sorry, who's still eating at Red Lobster? Never been. The only good thing there is the biscuits.

And like, you can get those in a package at the grocery store nowadays. But you know, he partnered with them because they're like closing and he's like, no, I have to continue going to this restaurant. I'm going to partner with them. I'm going to support them. What would be like y'all's restaurant that if it were to close, you would be like, I have to. We'd absolutely ride for. Chuck E. Cheese. Jail.

But only if they let me in because I don't have a child so I can't enter right now. Jail. And they don't door down. Why do you need a child to enter into Chuck E. Cheese? Jail. But only if they let me in, because I don't have a child, so I can't enter right now. Jail? Why do you need a child to enter into Chuck E. Cheese? It's the pizza. It's the pizza. So I've said this on record, that the pizza's really good,

and during COVID, I kept mine alive, because I would door dash the pizzas. So you have done this before already. Well, you can't door dash anymore. But like- But during COVID, they were like,

hey, we need some biz. Justin single-handedly already saved Chuck E. Cheese. And I'll do it again. I think you could still pick it up. I don't know. Yeah, call it in. I'll bring River. She will not enter a Chuck E. Cheese.

Mine would probably be Waffle House. That's where she'll get lice. Waffle House? Waffle House. Okay, what about Waffle House? They don't have any here, do they? No. No. Yeah.

They're out of writing though. Oh yeah, there you go. I just, I love a diner. I love breakfast, it's? No. No. Yeah. They're out of writing though. Oh yeah, there you go. I just, I love a diner. I love breakfast, it's my favorite meal of the day. And I love that they're shaped like waffles. Sierra. I mean mine doesn't really have the possibility

of going out of business. They're shaped like waffles? Wait. Like the buildings. No. They have like big waffles. I thought you were saying the waffles were shaped like waffles.

I was like, wait. No, no, no, it's like a rectangle. Okay, fine. It's a rectangle. To me this looks like a waffle a little bit. No. It's like an Eggo waffle. The way that they're shaped is.. Okay, fine. To me this looks like a waffle a little bit. No. It's like an Eggo waffle. The way that they're shaped is...

Kind of, maybe. Rectangle. You know what? Nevertheless, you'd wanna save a waffle house. I'd wanna save a waffle house. Sierra? I can't think of one off the top of my head, but mine would be an impossibility

because everybody loves In-N-Out, but if In-N-Out was going out of business, I would... No one would have thought red lobster was gonna go out of business in the 90s. This is hypothetical. Yeah, so I would throw myself on a sword for In-N-Out, so, but if In-N-Out was going out of business, I would throw myself. No one would have thought red lobster was gonna go out of business in the 90s. This is hypothetical. Yeah, so I would throw myself on a sword for In-N-Out, for sure. Okay, Nick?

I already know Nellie's would be Chick-fil-A. No. Well, for sure. But I think going a little bit more nostalgic, I think I'd do an Outback. Ooh. She met Obama, but rides for Chick-fil-A, so just evening it out the political spectrum

in case, you know. She's diplomatic. In case we triggered anyone. Sorry. Didn't Outback already go out of business? No. No. I haven't seen one of those in a hot minute. No, they're there.

They're there. You know what? Sizzler. Sizzler is a high quality piece of steak for a good price. Not the steak. No, they don't. It's not bad. The steak is questionable, but the cheese toast. The cheese toast, fucks.

The Bloomin' Onion? Yeah, no, no, the cheese toast. The Outback? The cheese toast is good. The cheese toast. What is that? That'll put you to sleep. I haven't heard of the Scissor's

since my grandma. That'll put you to sleep in a bad way, you'll die. There's one in Eagle Rock, I would go to now and then. Scissor's a good one. It's a high quality piece of meat for a good price. Seven dollars? It's a type of steak that you like,

you don't mind putting steak sauce on. Because it's bad. No, it's not that it's not, you know, it's not steakhouse quality. Exactly, you have to cover it in eggplant sauce to enjoy. You're a fucking sauce girl who covers everything, so you don't get to talk about like, oh, I'm putting a sauce on a steak, how dare I. No, but you're trying to make the steak taste better by the egg ones off because the steak is bad. I'm not saying Sizzler is giving you steakhouse quality steak.

It's certainly not as good as what I make at home. But for the right price. It's cost efficient. It's cost efficient. And there's something about cheaper steak that's kind of good. Nostalgic? Yes, I don't know.

I don't know. Why you guys gotta fuck with mine? Sorry, no, no, no, it's yours. There are certain foods I'm just gonna pay better, more money for. I feel like steak is one of them. If anyone's answer was Captain D's, I was gonna have to exit.

What is Captain D's? Oh my God, it's a fast food, seafood place. Like drive through seafood. Absolutely terrible. It's like Long John's. Long John's, yeah. No, drive through seafood. Absolutely terrible. It's like Long John's. Long John's, yeah. Ew, no. Gross, I agree.

If J.R.C. wants to eat Long John's, it's a lot of dead eaters. Disgusting, yeah. Fast food, seafood in general, I feel like shouldn't be a thing. No. Like, I wanna eat my seafood next to the, somewhere with water. I wanna believe that it came out of that water.

Yes, exactly. All right, well, is Ramin here? I believe so. Another housekeeping note before we get to Ramin. This Thursday, I know we mentioned it last week, is gonna be another Reality Recap Not Going Deeper format. We have a lot of great guests.

We have Stevan joining us along with Brian Baumgartner. You might know him as Kevin from The Office. We'll be covering a lot of your favorite topics. You know, it's just one of those things where instead of like bringing you a going deeper along with Brian Baumgartner. You might know him as Kevin from The Office. We'll be covering a lot of your favorite topics. You know, it's just one of those things where instead of like bringing you a going deeper of someone that's like you don't really need to go going deeper with,

we're gonna bring you another reality recap because there's a ton of topics we didn't get to talk about today. So we're gonna bring it to you Thursday. And then next week, there will be another going deeper. We're bringing it back for Micah to get into all the messiness, a really, a deep dive on her time on

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Every order ships right to your door, so you never have to worry about running out of dog food again. Get 40% off your first order of Sundays. Just go to sundaysfordogs.com slash viall or use code viall at checkout. Ramin, can you hear us? Yeah, I can hear you guys. Hey Ramin, how's it going? Good. Thank you so much for having me on. Really excited. Yeah, excited to have you. Well, congratulations on the new book. Thank you very much. Really appreciate it. Yeah, so, well, Zach online, he let you in.

He watched The Apprentice, but in this room, none of us, like I've seen a couple episodes, but like The Apprentice back in the day was like the it show on television. It was like everyone's favorite network reality TV show. And I feel like there's just so many like crazy behind the scenes stories when it comes to the set of Apprentice. Is that what kind of motivate motivated you to write this book or what made you do

this in the first place? It did. So when I was in my 20s, I was just starting out as a journalist and there was someone like I was trying to find someone in entertainment to interview I was a reporter at Newsweek but I was looking for like a great person to like always be able to get on the phone and so I started watching The Apprentice back in 2004 and The one person I could always go on the phone was Donald Trump

I'd always call his office and he'd always gone the phone with me and Always even before he'd run for president I always thought there was a really interesting, like I was like, maybe there's an oral history on The Apprentice because it was such an innovative show. And I know people forget how influential it was now because there's been so much reality since then, but it really created this template

for having a competition show where people who were like aspirational, smart, they want to get a job from Donald Trump. And then they mixed in the celebrities when the Dancing with the Stars phenomenon was happening and everyone was doing celebrity stuff. And they brought in all these celebrities with Donald Trump. So I wanted to go in and kind of trace how this show became so important

and influential in pop culture. And then obviously look at, you know, Donald Trump as a figure and him using the show to run for office, which I know we don't, you know, guys don't talk about politics that much on the show, but this is a really dishy, like, fun summer read where you can get through it really quickly,

but also I'm interviewing Donald Trump about, you know, his life as a reality star. No, it is crazy to think about that he used The Apprentice and the success of that show to run for president. Regardless of how you feel about the man, that is a fascinating, I guess that says more about us as a nation than anything, you know? I mean, that's fucking crazy. So he literally would just take your calls just and you guys just like

shot the shit like all the time or like, did it become like a regular thing? Donald Trump doesn't shoot the shit. So he takes the call. He answers three questions. He gets his he checks it off in his head that I got this press and then he moves on. He wouldn't even know, like sometimes where I was calling from. I talked to him the weekend that he was marrying Melania. He was playing golf on the golf course, got on the phone for like 90 seconds, answered three questions and then hung up.

He would keep his couldn't help himself. He would not say no to a call from a reporter. And he didn't even have a publicist back then. So he would just, they would just roll the calls to wherever he was and he'd pick up. Wow. That's crazy. What, I mean, are you able to share any like nuggets from the book?

Like what was the most kind of, were there any calls that you had that you were just like, well, I can't believe that just happened. So for the book, I actually interviewed him in person. So we talked, I did six interviews for this book. Wow. After he left the White House and I would go to Trump Tower. And it was so surreal because everyone assumed that he wasn't in New York. But I went to Trump Tower. Like the security let me in. I went up. He was in his office. This was like in the early days of COVID. He wasn't wearing a mask.

And he talked really about how much he loved being on reality TV. He's had a falling out with the Kardashians. He resents that Kim Kardashian doesn't support him and didn't support did like a happy face emoji when Biden won in 2020. He had some choice words for Chloe who was on the celebrity apprentice. So I mean, that was really fascinating how he thinks about fame and looks at fame as the ultimate currency. And he is a reality star. So it makes sense, but also then it doesn't make sense

because he was a former president of the United States. What a mind trip. That is so fascinating. What was your most memorable moment writing this book other than obviously maybe, it was at this year times visiting Trump Tower? I mean. I went to Mar-a-Lago, so that's the end of the book

where I visited Mar-a-Lago and we talked about, again, more celebrities. He actually called me, I got a call the night before Thanksgiving and I didn't know who it was because it was an unknown number and I picked up and it was him. He wanted to tell me some information

and get me to write about one of his friends. But it was also very, he was, it was very quiet and he seemed kind of sad on that night. And it was a night where I would expect for him to be with his family, but he was like, again, very fixated on getting press and spinning this information that he had that he wanted to talk to me about. And then the other thing that was really memorable was that I put together a bunch of clips of the show and we watched the clips together in a boardroom and there was a very famous episode, The Apprentice, where Dennis Rodman was doing this task and didn't know how to spell Melania's name who at the time Trump was married. She was originally a girlfriend and then they got married on the show. Very bachelor-like where they ended up married. She was on the cover of Vogue.

Wait, I didn't know that. Melania and Donald Trump got married on The Apprentice. Well, not like on the show. There wasn't like an episode of The Apprentice, but it was a storyline where it was like initially she was on his girlfriend. And then the ratings were crazy. And then because of the fame of the show, then people were interested in Melania because she would kind of come in and come out in the first season.

She talks about how much she loves the newlyweds because Jessica Simpson is performing as part of the competition. And she talks about how cool it is that Nick Lachey and Jessica are like chronicling their relationship for the cameras and how much she loves the show. So so they really were like students of reality TV and they use reality TV to become famous in America. And Melania wasn't known.

And then, you know, when they got married, they had a huge wedding. It was a, you know, everyone wanted to go because partly because of the apprentice, partly because he was Donald Trump was so famous at that time. But we were watching this clip and Dennis Rodman hadn't caught that Melania's name was spelled incorrectly. And Melania said something kind of mean to him. And Donald Trump started laughing and he asked, even though the clips on YouTube, I guess he didn't know it was on YouTube.

So he wanted to show the clips to his wife. And, you know, went back and like talked about some of his favorite contestants. A lot of the Real Housewives were on the show. Neenie Leakes was always very challenging on the show. And, you know, got into like fights with people. But because Bravo was owned by NBC, they would do a lot of cross promotions and

have a lot of celebrities on the celebrity apprentice. So we went back and sort of talked about all the different contestants and then we would talk about Afghanistan. He'd want to talk about, you know, things he did in the White House, but he was so much more invested in the apprentice than he was in anything we talked about when it came to him being president of the United States. That's wild. Do you know, does he watch any reality TV shows that he revealed to be like

a bachelor or love his blind friend or anything like that? I tried to get him to talk about TV. I think he watches. So he said he's never seen Keeping Up With The Kardashians, which I found surprising given how much he likes pop culture and given the cross crossing of paths between his family and the Kardashian family. He watches a lot of cable news. He's not actually interested in watching like entertainment shows, but he watches a lot of cable news and he talked about how whenever there's anything regarding with him and his family, he'll feel like DVR it. But he's not a huge reality TV fan. He just knows how to use the tricks that he learned on this reality show to captivate Americans.

That is fascinating. And what are some of those, you know, just so we can maybe, he said, no, no. What are some of those tricks that he's been able to captivate these audience with? What's interesting is that he, one of the contestants from season one told me that Donald Trump basically became a character on the show

and then he's that character now. So when we see him talking or doing press or denying that he lost election and saying it's that character now. So when we see him talking or doing press or denying that he lost election and saying it's all election fraud, it's a character that he's played, that he started out on The Apprentice. And I do think this happens to a lot of reality stars where they're someone who they are kind of melds

with who they become on camera and then they can't separate the two. Yeah, like a la Tom Sandoval. That's we've kind of always said that about him. Like as I've gotten to know Tom, he's become his character on TV, it feels like, more than anything else. That's been my biggest takeaway of meeting him.

And he accused Omarosa of that, who, you know, became the villain in season one and then came back for two more seasons and then eventually went and worked in the White House. He said that she started playing a villain, so she ended up not being as fun and as exciting for the viewers. But Donald Trump also is playing this character that he became on The Apprentice for America. So it's a real, the book really explores how reality TV changed the world and changed our perceptions of what a president should

be and what a president needs to do and the duties of a president of the United States. That is fascinating. So you've obviously spent a lot of time talking to him, you've hung out with him. Like the man, you know, Donald Trump, did you get to meet like a different side of this person or was he at this point still kind of playing his character

when you interviewed him? Or did you feel like there were moments where you got to see a glimpse of someone that most people don't get to see? I definitely think I saw sides of him that we may not know exist. He's not in person. He can be funny. He can be charming. He can be.

I did see his germaphobic side one day. He asked me to sit on the other side of the table when we were talking and didn't shake my hand. And then another didn't shake my hand. And then another day he shook my hand. But I think that I saw, what I saw was someone that really wants to be in the middle of the spotlight. And it was funny, cause in the beginning,

when I talked to him right after he had to exit the White House because he lost election, he was deflated and not as excited. And then I, when I went and visited him at Mar-a-Lago, he had all these legal problems mounting. I thought he'd actually not be in a good mood, but he was relatively happy that people were talking about him again.

And so again, that goes to kind of reality TV. It doesn't matter what the scandal is. If there's a scandal, people are talking about you. They're engaged, they're interested. If he's being tried in Manhattan court, he gets to at least get all the headlines and attention. And that's what he really thrives on. That's what I really learned in my time with him

is that he loves attention. And his son, Eric, told me, you have to learn through the apprentice, they learn that drama, there needs to be some inherent drama to captivate people. And that's the playbook that they use when he became a politician. It's like he thrives on drama, on feuds, on fighting with people, on saying outrageous things.

And these are all things that he learned on reality TV. That's that is crazy. How do you think he has he read the book? Do you know if he has or how does he feel about it? Or how do you anticipate him feeling about this book? He hasn't read the book. I don't think he's got, he wanted this glowing book. He told me he'd sell the book at his rallies.

This isn't that. I'm a, you know, I tried to do a fair job, but I also, there's a lot of baggage with Donald Trump. So we, I explored sort of the mythology behind him and how he became this figure that people thought was, you know, a great leader, but it's not a flattering book. So he hasn't read it.

It's kind of tough on him at some points and I don't think he will read it. He's not also someone in the same way he doesn't watch reality TV, he's not a big book reader. I do think this book will be, it's an exploration of what it's like to be on a reality show. It also shows how they found the contest.

It was very different back in the early 2000s, the way they vetted the contestants. Donald Trump was involved in casting the contestants. They had to do STD testing because they were all living in a house together. But this was before it was so widely known that that was common. So the guys were all weirded out and very confused and described the process as very painful when they had to be STD tested to live in this like Trump kind of like the sort of big brother house, but it was like in Trump Tower where they all were being followed by cameras and doing these tasks for Donald Trump.

So it really, it also peels back the curtain on the early days of reality and how they put the show together back before there were so many examples of how reality should be. Well that is fascinating. It sounds like an excellent book. It is called The Apprentice in Wonderland. And is it out, when is it out? It's out tomorrow. It's out on Tuesday.

Oh, so it's out now. So check it out wherever you get, wherever, is it paperback, hard copy? It's a hard copy on Amazon, Barnes Noble, there's audio you can get on your Kindle, available in all formats. All right, well for all you Reality TV fans out there, which I know all of you are, be sure to check it out.

If you have a little bit of time, are you gonna stick around with us and go over some of these Bachelorette men's bios and pick some front runners with us? I would love that, yes. All right, let's do it. It's all right, it's time for Jen's Men. That does have a really nice ring to it.

It's got a great ring to it. I like it. Let's bring up our little, our cheat sheet. Here we go. So how many men does she have? 23. That feels, no. No.

That feels low. That feels so low. There's no way there's only 23. Is there really a 23? I feel like they release like 20 something and then there'll be like eight more at the actual thing. There's 25.

So they released 25. Yes. It still seems low. That's like the OG number. They used to always have 25 and then like one time it was like a few seasons before mine they're like unprecedented. We had like 30 people and now at minimum is 30.

I think they've had like 33 or 34. So yeah, I'll be curious if they actually only have 25. So starting off with Aaron from Tulsa, Oklahoma, an aerospace engineer. 29. 29 years old. Then we've got Austin from San Diego, California. He's 28 years old and he's a sales executive. With a mullet. Brendan from Vancouver, British Columbia, 30 years old real estate broker. Brett from Pennsylvania. He is 28 years old health and safety manager.

Health and safety manager. Brian from Florida. He is 33 and he's an aesthetics consultant. He loves Botox and doesn't care. Yeah, I was about to say. Such an interesting fact to want to add about yourself. That's a strange thing to admit when you're only 33. He's going home and doesn't care. Yeah, I was about to say. Such an interesting fact to wanna add about yourself. That's a strange thing to admit when you're only 33. He's going home night one for sure.

That's what I'm like. He's absolutely going home night one. He's my number one shop. Do we all agree? And the watch looks a little airbrushed. It's like one of those ads where you're like, oh, is this a real watch when you try to buy a watch online? I don't know, there's the, I agree.

The Amazon ad. But he is a confirmed Swifty. Does that change our opinion? No, no. Absolutely not. All right, all agree. I think he's- But he is a confirmed Swifty. Does that change our opinion? No. No. Absolutely not. All right, all right. Botox and Swifty is dangerous. I think.

Dangerous combo. Next we've got Dakota from Arizona. He's 27 and he's a Somalie. Ooh. Okay. Okay. That sounds, that sounds annoying. He sounds annoying, yes. Immediately, that's what I hear, annoying.

I respect that. But the tattoo on his rib is the scariest part. Did you see what it says? He had the tattoo on his rib is the scariest part. Did you see what it says? He has a tattoo on his rib that talks about sorrow. Oh, what is sorrow? The biggest thing in today's sorrow is the memory of yesterday's joy. He has that tattooed on his rib.

That's dark. He's enlightened. I'm trying to wrap my brain around that quote. Let's just keep going. I am too. It's a little over my head. That's a lot of words. That's a lot of words. That's a lot of words.

Then we've got Devin from Texas. He is 28 years old and he is a freight company owner. He's my favorite because he said his mom is his hero. That is cute. That is sweet. He also ran a 200 mile race with his buddies so he knows how to follow through. That ruins it for me.

I'm not marrying into a turkey trot family. So I don't want to run her. It's going to make me feel bad about myself. Also lying about his allergies. You know when people are like, I'm allergic to it and then they eat it. Yeah. How does he love eating shrimp tacos, but he's allergic to shrimp.

I love it. You also have an EpiPen where every time. Yes. This is not me. This is very different. I love the idea that he's like taking somebody out to shrimp tacos and he's like, hold on one second, just pulls out his EpiPen

and goes, all right, let's go. I will say I am slightly allergic to nuts and I still eat them because my dad works for a nut company, so I'm like, I have to. Yeah, I'm like, I have to. I can't give it up. So I empathize with it. What happens to you? I just choke a little. That just choked a little?

Oh my God. I thought you were going to be like, oh, I get a little rash. It's like, no, no, I stop breathing. Seems. Are you one of those people that doesn't allow nuts on airplanes because you're allergic? Oh no. Pass the nuts my way, pass them my way.

That's what I want. I had a kid in school who was allergic to peanuts. And so my entire middle school, we couldn't bring peanuts or peanut butter. No, but it is crazy to me as far, like sometimes you go on planes and they ask you not to eat nuts, which wasn't a thing.

No, they just don't serve them. No, they don't. But yeah, that wasn't a thing a few years ago. When did all of a sudden nut allergies become such a thing where we have to exclude it from an entire flight? Probably when they started like killing people. Yeah, some people, some people died from the smell. It didn't just start happening.

But is it airborne? Yeah, no, no, no, yes. Are they allergic to the smell of nuts? Yeah, some people are. Some people are. no, yes. Are they allergic to the smell of nuts? Some people are, some people are. The person at my school was allergic to the smell, so he could not bring Nick's nieces, so why don't you watch your words? I don't know, let's go fuck myself, sorry.

Sorry, you nut people. Or not the nut, anti-nut. Maybe it's like when you touch something and then go into the bathroom, if they touch it, like I don't know, but. All right, so Devon with the EpiPen. I want an episode where he has an allergic reaction. That is what I want from him.

That's why. Like, that's Megham and Shrimp. By the way, that is gonna be something that happens. I feel they're gonna end up in another emergency room somehow. I hope he's okay, but yes, I hope for it. All right, then we've got Dylan from California. 24, medical student.

He's from my area. I like him, he hates avocados. I trust this man. He's also never set foot in a Trader Joe's, so he hates Justin. But he's from my area. I like him. He hates avocados. I trust this man. He's also never set foot in a Trader Joe's, so he hates Justin. But he's from Sacramento area, so represent, but hate me at the same time. This man is not a follower. I know this much. This man marches to his own beat.

Because he doesn't go to Trader Joe's? And he hates avocados. What do you mean? He's a big fan of wine and painting date nights. That's the most like clich cliche, you could say. That's just being stressed out for your bachelor and trying to impress the ladies. But like admitting that you don't like avocados

to an entire nation is bold. Wait, so he's a medical student. So basically Devin's gonna have an allergic reaction. Dylan's gonna be there to like help him. Jen's gonna fall in love with Dylan being like, oh my God, he saved him. Interesting. I think they're gonna go to Trader Joe's on their date.

Yeah. Then we've got Grant from Houston, Texas. He's 30 years old and he's a day trader. Okay. That's kind of boring. He's gonna go home. Hakim from Illinois. He's 29 and he's a medical device salesman. He can clap with one hand. Yep. Going home. How do you make that work?

Yeah, that's annoying. Yeah. No, I can do it. I can, I can, I can clap with one hand. You're not making any. How do you make that? That's annoying. Yeah, no, I can do, I can clap with one hand. You're not making any noise. I wish I could show you what you look like. Ick, ick, high school and there's a reason why. Moving on. Dating coach, oh he spent $5,000 on a dating coach also. What? Oh dating coach, I read this couch, sorry. I was like, what's this dating couch?

Wait, go back, go back, go back. Hakeem takes finding love so seriously that he spent over $5,000 on a dating coach. What is that, like, so you, why is anyone spending any money on a dating coach? What do you like coach, so you, why is anyone spending any money on a dating coach? What do you, life coach, dating coach? It's gotta be a personality issue if you're spending that much money on a dating coach

when you're in your 20s. There's just no hope for you at that point. That's a big red flag. And who is this dating coach that's stealing your money? Yeah, and why are you admitting that? Well, it's clearly not working because you're going on a dating show. Night one, night one.

Gone. Gone. Yeah. Jahan from New York, New York. He is 28, a startup founder. Okay. He's hard. Okay, so he's like Kyle, he's 4 million in debt. And he's...

Oh, and he's out of commission if he gets hangry. I don't love that. Yeah, I know. There's only one of us that could be hangry. Yeah. It can't be you. Our men not only get hangry. Not if I do.ry. I don't love that. Yeah, I know. There's only one of us that can be hangry. Yeah. And it can't be you. Our men not all get hangry. Not if I do.

Not if I do. I can't do. We can't both be hangry. No, that'll be a disaster. That's called toxic. Yeah, one of us has to be like in the right mind to get us food. Yes.

Because I'm just angry. One of us needs to make the decision on where we're eating and what I'm eating. But I also think anyone that wants to fly a plane has commitment issues because they can't stand still in one place at one time. That's a hot take. Yeah, hot take.

Jeremy, also from New York, New York, you have a theory about New Yorkers on the show. He looks like a trust fund guy. 29 real estate investors. Well, New York people in general don't usually perform well on the show, because Bachelor Universe is so kind of middle America and very traditional that like any kind of progressive

dating mindsets in like the, you know, the very harsh dating world that is the New York dating scene, it doesn't seem to translate to the Bachelor world. The characters don't seem to do very well. And if anything, they often have just become villains because they're like too aggressive, which isn't real true, it's just only in Bachelor World

because like compared to like your people from the Midwest or the South are just like- Like a sweet Ben Higgins. They're there for the right reasons. Like, you know, these guys were just like, oh, hookup culture, fuck yeah, raw. Anyway, so also he's, he doesn't look the part. No. All right. And then we got John from Florida.

He's 25, also a medical student obsessed with all things Christmas. Red flag. Oh, yeah. He stayed awake for 36 plus hours playing. I'm planning on getting a Duolingo campaign. Learning. You're funny. How did you play ping pong for 36 hours. Is it like continuous or did he have to take? I don't understand.

That's a long time. It must have been some sort of he takes drugs. Yeah, he takes drugs. There's nothing I love that much. He used to have a cocaine problem. Well, he is a medical student. So now it's Adderall. Yes. Yes.

The legal version. No. OK. The legal version. No, okay. So legal cocaine, okay. Jonathan, Los Angeles, California. He's 27 and he's a creative director. He calls himself a medium king. So he's short. Oh yeah.

He's really gonna struggle in Bachelor World because they're all gonna be like six three. How tall do we think he is if he's calling himself a medium king. Five eight. Five eight. Five eight. Five eight.

Five six? There's no way they would let him five six. But he tells everyone he's five 11. He tells everyone he's five 11. Brutal. He is handsome though. Marvin from Santa Monica, California. He's 28 and he's a luxury event planner.

Absolutely not. First of all, purple and purple, what is going on? He's monochrome. There's a lot of purple going on. Terrible. He speaks French fluently. But he is dreaming of buying a beachside mansion in Malibu.

Aren't we all? Get in line. She said next. Then we got Matt from Atlanta, Georgia. He's 27, insurance executive. He has a nice smile. He looks like a pirate. He's cute, yeah. I'm not here for it from Atlanta, Georgia. He's 27, insurance executive. He has a nice smile. He looks like a pirate. He does, he's cute, yeah.

I'm not here for it. Oh, hey. Sierra hates him. Yep. He wants to climb Mount Everest. He wished he had the ability to teleport. Nick. Yeah.

So does Nick. That's your- That's my superpower wish. Teleport, be anywhere, anytime, for anything. Mine's invisibility for sure. That's creepy. Creepy. I'm gonna snoop. Mine's efficient. It's like,'s creepy. Creepy. I'm gonna snoop.

Mine's efficient. It's like, hey, I'm late, I need to go here. You're just like, I wanna see people on your ass. See people on dress? On dress? No, it's more so I wanna see if people are talking shit. Talking shit about you. Mo's from New York, he's 25.

He is an algebra teacher. Oh, he's a teacher. An algebra teacher? That's kind of sweet. Oh my God. That is kind of sweet. He speaks Spanish. Oh, he's a teacher. An algebra teacher, that's kind of sweet. That is kind of sweet. He speaks Spanish. Oh, he played for the- Maybe he can teach our friend who's learning Spanish on Duolingo.

Right. Former professional athlete of the XFL. Which one is XFL? It's like- The fake. Well, it's not the fake, but I mean- X Games. No. Oh. It's a professional football league

that is trying to, you know, have, trying to be the NFL, but struggling to be so. But it, there's a lot of, he's a very talented athlete to make it to the XFL. What does the X stand for? I don't know. Okay, just one, curious. And he can't date you if you have a pet tarantula. Same. Yeah, that feels valid.

Yeah, but who has a pet tarantula. Talk about your trauma, like what happened? Like specifically, it's like, I don't wanna date anyone who is a lion, okay? Yeah. Can't have a lion. Yeah, how many pet tarantulas are out there? Jesus.

Well, he's from Albany, New York, which is not real New York, so maybe he'll do well. It's a snake apple. Also, are there tarantulas in Albany, New York? Yeah, do they have a spider problem? There's probably a lot of things in Albany, New York? Yeah, do they have a spider problem? There's probably a lot of things in Albany that we don't know about.

Actually, New York is having a spider problem right now. Oh yeah, the flying ones. Yeah, parachuting to absolutely fuck not. The scary yellow ones. Uh-huh, poison it. More like rats, I live in New York, it's more rats than spiders here. All right, we like those.

Ooh, pick your present. Ricky from Miami, Florida, not to be confused with Ricky Martin. 28, pharmaceutical representative. He never celebrates his birthday. Why? I wonder what happened to him on his birthday. It's like, do you celebrate other people's birthdays?

I don't love my birthday, but like having a hard stance to say he doesn't. Is he? Like how rigid is this? Is he a witness? Yeah, is he a JoHobin's witness? Is he like, okay, I don't want to celebrate or is he like, we can't celebrate my birthday?

Like first date, is he like, she just told don't wanna celebrate, or is he like, we can't celebrate my birthday? Like first date, is he like, hey, just something you should know about me, do not mention my birthday to me ever. Is it like- There's so many Spanish speaking, like great, bring it on. Sam. Sam. Oh, he's gonna go far.

From South Carolina. Myrtle Beach, South Carolina. He's a contractor that's giving Tyler Cameron. Uh-huh, tattoos. He'd never been to the West Coast before The Bachelorette. No. Jen. Home school.

The Bachelor producer's gonna love this guy. Jen also. Small town. He's gonna be the next Bachelor. He's gonna be the runner-up and be the next Bachelor. That's my prediction. Yeah, I could see that potentially. Sam from California.

I am our, I already hate him because he gets his eyebrows threaded and to keep them hashtag on fleek, which is traumatizing to say the least. And his favorite holiday is April Fools. He's a prankster. That's not a holiday. Oh God, I hate him.

Oh my God. That guy did not get attention as a kid. Spencer from Dallas, Texas. He's 30 years old and he's a pet portrait entrepreneur. What? What does that mean? He paints pets portraits. He's like.

What? What's the entrepreneur in He paints his portraits. He's. What was the entrepreneur that why did you just say? I just. Yeah. I don't think he's like, I do this for fun. Why can't he either be a photographer or a painter? Why is he, you know, pet portraits? But it makes it sound like he collects pet painting. What's his company's name? Yeah, it makes it sound like he sells his.

And he has a basement full of pet he sells his. I don't know. He has a basement full of pet portraits. Yeah, I don't know. What is the fact? Giving serial killer. He ran two ultra marathons in the last year. Not none. That's the second person on this show who just loves to run out. Not into it. He recently hiked 47 miles through the Grand Canyon for 27 hours straight.

Twenty seven. Too much outside. Yeah, I bet he knows a lot of facts. 27? It's too much outside. I bet he knows a lot of facts. I honestly think he'll go far. Why? I don't know. Because he can run fast. You think he's done first night? I think so too.

Well, I can't all go home first night. Thomas N from Georgia. Tucker, Georgia. 31 retirement advisor. Former professional swimmer. Okay. Where do you swim professionally? The Olympics.

The Olympics. Yeah, is he that good? I feel like no, he definitely would have said he was an Olympic swimmer and not professional swimmer if he had anything to do with the Olympics. Went cliff diving in Italy. Okay, risk taker. He was probably like a water polo player

in college or something. Yeah. He wants to travel to every continent polo player in college or something. Yeah. He wants to travel to every continent. I actually kind of like him. Okay, okay, next. All right. Then we've got Thomas A from Ontario, Toronto. He's 27 and he's a physiotherapist.

That's like, what's the difference between a physiotherapist and a physical therapist? Physiotherapist. What is a physiotherapist? I feel like it's very similar to a physical therapist and a physical therapist. Physiotherapist, what is a physiotherapist? I feel like it's very similar to a physical therapist. Well it says a physiotherapist or a physical therapist works with patients to help them manage pain balance. Physiotherapist sounds a little bit better.

Sounds a little more profesh. Okay. He's gone ice skating thousands of times. I like ice skating. I just feel like if you have like a small amount of facts to say about yourself and it's, I like to run. I've ice skated thousands of times. Like there's not a lot going on there.

Why not say a lot? Why say that all? He's from Canada. He's from Canada. He also enjoys long drives with no specific destination in mind in this economy. If there's no food involved in that, then no. Do you have gas prices these days? Yeah. Maybe it's cheaper in that, then no. Do you gas prices these days?

Yeah. Maybe it's cheaper in Canada. Oh, boy. It is cheaper in Canada. That's the reason, but there's also nowhere to go. So he's probably driving in circles. That's why he has no specific destination, because he's like, I don't know where for me to go.

What did you do today? Set in traffic? It might be too cold to actually get out of the car. Kevin from Colorado. He's 35. He's a financial analyst. He's been skiing over 200 times. Look at all these people. They know exactly how many times they've done these things.

Yeah. What? It's like, hey guys, I'm Leia. I've done, I've walked to a lot of places. Oh no, the next one. He cannot tolerate bugs. Under any circumstances. No, I need someone Oh no, the next one. He cannot tolerate bugs. Under any circumstances. No, I need someone who can, mm-mm.

We can't be both screaming over a spider. No, we can't, mm-mm. That's what the vacuum's for. Don't need to see it later. Can you date a guy who's afraid of bugs? Absolutely not. I couldn't, no. Absolutely not, because I am irrationally afraid of them. Like, when one comes near me, I jump, I scream,

I try to stay calm, but the idea of having a partner match that energy absolutely not Absolutely not he owned his own barbecue restaurant Go back to the first guy Yeah, I think he's gonna win. This is my you think he's a financial analyst. Go back to the first guy. Aaron? Yeah. I think he's gonna win. This is my fighter. You think he's gonna win?

Yeah, I think he's Noah's brother. He's an engineer. I don't know, I think he's gonna be known as Noah's brother. Yeah. He's a hot aerospace engineer, like that's just, and he's like, yeah, he's my fighter. Yeah, but have you met Noah?

Yeah, but he doesn't look anything like Noah to me. I feel like he's twin. No, but siblings are different. I don But have you met Noah? Yeah, but he doesn't look anything like Noah to me. I feel like he's twins. Siblings are different. I don't think you can say that. That's true. We're bling. They're the same. Yeah. They seem like a cool couple to double date with. Or to like be family with Noah and Abigail.

Yeah. Yeah. What does that mean? Have you met Noah? He's in a he's an interesting guy. But again, they think they're fraternal twins because like seven minutes older. Yeah. Like when I squint, I can see it, but like that's not the first thing that jumps out to me. I don't see it at all.

So again, I think he's gonna win. Okay, all right. Marcus from North Carolina. He's 31 and he's an army ranger veteran. Oh no, no, sorry. There are so many rangers in Savannah, Georgia, and they're just, maybe that's a, he's got a bad rep, but those guys are too brutal.

Okay. Thank you for serving our country, but he's just brutal. Him, Madam President. Maybe, I truly, maybe they just have a bad rep, but the ones in Savannah, Georgia are absolutely awful. They're also all very short, so I don't know if he is, but. Okay. I stand by that they should put their height instead of their job.

Well, they're all like six, two or over. They cast giants, typically. I don't know. All right, so my front runner is the tattooed guy, the Tyler Cameron construction guy. That you think will win or you think will go home? Sam? Just top four, that's all I'm gonna, who knows? Yeah knows. I mean, I don't I don't know Jen's type

I'm just saying I think he'll go far Dakota is top four to the one with the sad tattoo the sommelier. Yeah Oh god, I think he's giving bad boys. I think she's gonna want Who do we think is gonna be the villain? The code of them maybe he gives me villain energy Dakota going to be the villain that she falls in love with. It's not how that works. Boy, it's an interesting group. Yeah, for Jen. Yeah, maybe we'll feel differently once we see these guys.

But it seems like I like Austin. I feel like we always aren't like the biggest fans when we see their pictures and read their terrible, terrible facts. But like it's as if the bachelor wants us to hate these people. I think Austin would go far. I like Austin. He keeps his teeth straight. He keeps his teeth straight.

If he wants to be Justin Bieber, that's scary. I don't like that fact either. Just for a day, though. I would love to be a celebrity just for a day. Just for a day. He doesn't go. He doesn't go see. Of all the celebrities, why would you choose Bieber

as the person you want to be? He doesn't go anywhere without his retainers. Aren't you supposed to? What do you mean? That is a good point. If it's just for a day, what is it about Justin Bieber? That's like the rule. You're supposed to carry your retainers everywhere. He keeps his teeth clean and straight.

He keeps them straight. But again, why is this one of the most interesting facts about yourself? Because most people. He follows rules? What would your three things be if you had to make a bio? Like off the top of my head, but I don't know. But like I would have things a little bit.

Definitely one of mine would be, I have shaken hands with two of our US presidents. There you go. That's a great one. That's a flex. Groundbreaking. Biden and Barack. The BB.

But not Donald Trump. I have shaken hands with the president. Oh, there you go. There you have. We're number three between the two of us. Wow. That's pretty cool. We're very presidentially seasoned in this room.

Yeah. Yeah. Good for us. I also kind of think that Brian, the Botox loving Swiftie, I think he might be a villain because it's giving catty energy. Yeah.

Yeah, the Botox. That screams friend, not boyfriend. Yeah, but it also seems like trying to fight to stay on the show, like I'm gonna cause problems. I can see that, yeah. Aesthetics consultant. Aesthetics consultant, yeah, God. He's a big fan of Travis Kelce

and Taylor Swift's relationship. I don't like his outfit. He's only gonna be a villain, you're right. Yeah, this is the guy who says what he thinks you want him to hear. Yeah, he's wearing too much blue. An aesthetics consultant. Can you wear too much blue? Look. Yeah, he's wearing too much blue. An aesthetics consultant. Can you wear too much blue?

Look at him, he's wearing all different, like a blue watch, a blue shirt, blue pants. You can when the background's blue. Well, that's not his fault. No, no, without the background, I think it's even worse. Ramin, it's been really great having you on. Thanks for taking the time. Congratulations on the book.

Again, be sure to check out and pick up your copy of Apprentice in Wonderland now available wherever you get your books. It's available on audio as well. It certainly looks like a fascinating read for anyone who's a reality TV fan and honestly, maybe a little bit of a political fan, but certainly a reality TV fan for all of your insider tea on The Apprentice. Ramin, thanks so much for taking the time. Appreciate it. Thanks for having me on, guys. Bye. Take care. Bye. We're fine.

Ginsmen look really great. I'm excited for the season. We'll see what happens. Again, I feel like we always just hate the facts they give and the photos they take, but once we see their personality and them in like tuxes and suits, it's all a little bit better.

I feel like with any reality show, whenever they're going over the bios or it's like, hi, I'm Lea from Los Angeles, California, and I'm blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I hate every single one. And then as the show goes on, I forget all about them. I don't know what I even wrote on mine or what. Haven't we tried to find it before?

Is it gone? I think we like couldn't. I'm sure if you looked really hard, you could find it. I could find it. I'll find it later. I'm on it. Me it. I'll find it. I'm on it. I would find it, yeah. I would love to know. It's probably like was the fastest runner

in the state of Wisconsin. No, baby, only you tell people that. One of 11 siblings. Probably that. And yeah. Yeah, it definitely had something to do with my siblings, I'm sure. Not everybody's as shown.

Yeah, and then granted, they're also like answering many questions and then it's ABC who gets to cherry pick which ones they actually share. So it's not like they're like, you know what? I need you to know is I'm afraid of spiders. They could just be like, you know what? Also, and one more thing, not a big fan of spiders.

And then there was like, hate spiders. That's the one. It could be that. So yes, Natalie is being very level-headed. Rare. There's a lot of decisions you have to make when you have a baby. And the one that I feel the most comfortable

and safe making is using huggies for our daughter, River. I always tell Nick that when River's crying, she's trying to tell us something. And that's the case with most babies. They express it through cries. And so we've turned to Huggies. The new Huggie Skin Essentials are here. A brand new dermatologist approved line of diapers, wipes, and pull ups training pants

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The liner gives you the barrier to help absorb moisture and lock away running mess from baby skin. Pull Up Skin Essentials has your big kid covered too with a training pant that is ultra soft and breathable to help protect sensitive skin through potty training. Learn more at Huggies.com. Once again head to Huggies.com to learn more. Well we are obsessed with our Dreamland Baby Sleep Sack. They, oh my god, absolutely game-changer. It has become River's best friend. It's like her little cozy blanket. It just makes me want to talk like that. I don't know what it is. She loves it. It's like her little cozy blanket. It just makes me wanna talk like that.

I don't know what it is. She loves it. It's been our third parent. Dreamland Baby is a weighted sleep sack that basically is evenly weighted from shoulders to toes and it basically feels like your hand is on their body the entire night. It gives them that sense of comfort,

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So we owe our sleep and River's sleep to Dreamland Baby. An absolute must have. We are Dreamland Baby Sleep Sack people for life. Go to dreamlandbabyco.com and enter my code V-I-A-L-L at checkout to receive 20% off sitewide plus free shipping. This offer is for new and existing customers. Again, that's dreamlandbabyco.com and enter our code vi all. So Nick left out a key part of our Father's Day, which was we went to his favorite restaurant that we go to every single weekend.

Mendocino Farms. I know what it is. No, he eats that every single day for lunch. But Marco Polo... I was gonna say, I didn't want to out it, but you guys are there all the time. No, every single fucking weekend. And I mean, like they all of the... It's like everyone knows us. The chef always comes out. Why do you say like it's a bad thing? Like people know our name.

Like, cheers. No, no, no. I do think that's sweet when like, when the chef and all of the people, and they all, they've truly seen us like Nick and I dating. And then we went there literally the day after we got engaged with our family. And then we went there while I was pregnant.

And now we go there with our daughter. So they've really seen every part of our lives. Yeah. But anyways, then we went there while I was pregnant and now we go there with our daughter so they've really seen every part of our lives. But anyways, so we go there and we like to sit up in the mezzanine. It feels like you're in Greece. Have you been to Greece? I think it's Italian. I have not. Okay.

But in my mind I have. It looks like the pictures that you've seen on Instagram. Anyway, so there is a couple sitting beside us and it honestly gave, what I asked Nick if it would be his nightmare. No, well, first you already hated this person because she saw this person right behind me just attacking their nose. It must've just been itchy,

but it was just so aggressive the way that they were scratching their nose that it was alarming. And it also went on for a very, very long time to the point where I was like, you're gonna be bruised. Like you should stop. I thought Mallie was overreacting and then I turned around and this person had two fingers.

And I say this as someone who has, I'll admit from time to time. Not time to time, all the time. Been accused of maybe just scratching their nose two fingers and I say this to someone who has, I'll admit from time to time. Not time to time, all the time. Been accused of maybe like just scratching inside my nose, a la a nose pick. No, Nick picks a booger and I'll see him rolling it. No.

And then throws it. It's rolling. Throws it, it's behind our couch. Anyway, this is not about me. This is not about me. I'm just here to just defend. Sometimes you get caught in public really is what happens. And so I'm thinking now he's overreacting.

I turn around and this person has two fingers, like thumb and index finger up their nose and they're just wailing on it, whipping it back and forth. That's what they're doing. That's aggressive. No, exactly. I was like, I and I thank God I had sunglasses on so I could stare. But like it was so aggressive and like their husband was staring. They were doing this just no shame. They both did it? No, he was just watching. Okay. Which felt like, come on, if that were Nick,

if that were Nick, I would have been like, you gotta wrap that the fuck up. Now, like, we're in public. But no, anyways, then, so I was already- She had made an anime. I was obsessed. Then, they sit down beside us and it is like my nightmare. And they are explaining how to play a fucking card game,

which I don't, listen, give me- I'm curious what you guys think about this. Give me instructions to the game, but you're gonna sit there and just like make up instructions of what you remember from the last time you played the card game that you like literally just pulled out of your ass. And they're like, oh, so when the two and the four

defend your six with the jack of spades and the queen takes over the ace, that's when you double down Did they have what? When my floor is defending your like it literally makes no sense And I the whole time it was the entire time they played this game It was them explaining how to play the game so they weren't even playing it right now No, so they're playing a game at brunch. Yes

Yeah, they're playing a game at brunch? Yes. They brought cards to the brunch. We then found out. We then found out that they gave all the fathers a playing card and a shot glass. So I think they were utilizing the playing cards they received as a gift. So y'all are just haters. What the fuck are we hating on?

I'm kidding, I'm kidding, I'm kidding. I'm hating. Well, now that I was just pointing out, I didn't realize this, that like, yeah, some people, like how, yeah, some people, like how they explain games to people, I don't seem to be bothered by it, but Natalie is not a fan. I'm with Natalie on like, I would rather you give me something to read and tell me how

to play it versus the like, as we're going every move or like. No, you're describing my family though. Yeah, my God. Give me the Monopoly instruction sheet and I'll be good. But when it starts getting down to just, you're making this up as you go. You explaining your rules. Yeah, I'm competitive too.

And if I don't know a game, Connor tries to be over my shoulder being like, well, why don't you do this? And I'm like, just get out of here, I'll figure it out. It's also like, okay, so then my four is defending the jack. No, no, no, no, it can't because the jack is bigger. It's like, what the fuck? Like, no, you're making this up.

Like, in literally, this is your game. You're trying to win. Fraud. I will say, their boogers were all over that card. Oh! Over, all over. Didn't wash their hands. Yeah, you nasty.

Sometimes you get caught in public. And my favorite thing to do to Nick is whenever he is caught and then he tries to act like he doesn't do it, I'm like, stick your fingers in your mouth. Ew. If you didn't do it, stick your fingers in your mouth. Ew.

Nick, there was a study that just came out that said that picking your nose could cause Alzheimer's. I did see that. Yeah, I sent it to Natalie. Did you read it? He didn't I sent it to Natalie. Did you read it? He didn't remember sending it to me. Oh no. Off to a bad start.

I thought about stopping. But then you didn't. Then you forgot. Then you were out. I know. Exactly. Exactly. All right, Summerhouse reunion.

Felt mean to me. Wow. It felt really just like, let's everyone bully Lindsay. I feel like everyone was against Lindsay and it felt very Mean Girl-esque of like the laughing at what she says

and like the inside jokes between some of the other people and, cause obviously it would flash to whoever and show the reaction and and they're like laughing, and nothing was funny, and it just feels very mean girly to me. Yeah, I mean, I didn't appreciate Kyle just every fucking time Lindsay was trying to make a point.

Like, just keep calling your wife a bitch and shut up. He was deflecting. I think he was just trying so hard to keep the questions off of him. Well, that actually bothered me a lot that I was like, how are we not bringing up that Kyle called his wife out of her name? Like we just didn't address it.

The whole Kyle and Amanda part was completely grazed over. Nobody really spent the time that it deserved. They addressed it though. They just didn't grill Kyle like they grilled Lindsay. Well, this is the thing is, Carl and Lindsay are no longer together. So it's like, she said whatever, right? Kyle and Amanda are still very much married.

So why aren't we focusing on what happened with them this summer? I thought the most bizarre thing that happened from the part two reunion was Jesse Salomon giving Kyle and Amanda his stamp of approval on their relationship. I'm like, isn't this the fucking guy who's like telling her she's got like a nice set of melons online?

I love her cans. Or I love her cans or whatever. That's what, he captioned a photo, holding lover boy. And isn't she making videos about, guys, stop it. It would never happen. But like, oh my God, keep talking about it. It's like, again, maybe they're just professional TV makers.

I don't know. I don't, I, maybe they're just professional TV makers. I don't know. I don't. I just, I am fascinated by this relationship. I mean, if they are just trying to garner interest for next season, color me invested. Yeah. But I just don't see how this relationship will continue to survive this type of, I don't like either you're secretly swingers, or there's trouble in paradise that they're just kind of masking through comedy. Or they're great at television. Yeah. No, but I'm saying, like, even if it's an attempt

at being great at television, and like, that's what I'm saying. Like, let's say, for the most part, the relationship is relatively healthy. And they're just like you know we're just gonna lean into this stuff it's it's for the sake of the show we've been doing this for seven eight years we got a finer angle I get the intention of being focused on the show but I'm just saying I don't care

who you are like the type of stress that puts on a relationship you know the seeds of doubt and all of a sudden, you know, the seeds of doubt. And all of a sudden, maybe you're just like thinking, oh, of course, she would never do that. And that's just a joke online, but you get enough of people questioning your relationship and enough of people like making comments. And then you get in your head is like,

wait, do I have something to worry about? I just like, again, if they are doing it for the show, I still think it will backfire, I guess is what I'm saying. I just don't think, they might be that good at TV, but I don't know if anyone's that good at relationships to basically throw a fucking grenade inside your relationship and hope it doesn't destroy it.

Like, I don't. Then weren't there like cheating rumors? So there was a video that was recorded of a fan while they were in Charleston, and it's Kyle talking to a woman. They were talking closely at a nightclub. That's cool. Well yeah, the video, well anyways,

someone from Southern Charm, that Leva who owns the bar, came out in Kyle's defense and was like, that was an old mutual friend of both of ours. Like I would hate for the idea that there's rumors flying around attacking their, their marriage. But it's yeah, random photos and videos of people close talking at a bar in a loud setting is like the lamest way of starting like

a thousand percent. Because you lean in and be like, you can't hear someone like this. That's like old school paparazzi trying to start rumors out of nothing. So it is interesting though, that the cheating rumors portrait or of Kyle are just like fan videos versus like Amanda side is her chiming into it. paparazzi trying to start rumors out of nothing. It is interesting though that the cheating rumors of Kyle are just like fan videos versus like Amanda's side is her chiming into it or like aching it on, you know? Yeah, I mean it's all kind of bizarre.

Yeah. It's just, and I hope they don't break up. I just, it just, if nothing else, it sure seems like they are fucking with a good thing. Oh yeah. And basically using their, if that's what they're doing, if it's literally a, hey, let's be good at TV, they're literally sacrificing the health and relationship for drama.

And I just, usually drama always wins. I've never. Well, to refute all of the statements about her not going to the wedding and whatnot, they posted, Kyle posted on his story of him and Amanda in a backyard. So I'm assuming it's her parents' house, but them playing to the wedding and whatnot. They posted, Kyle posted on his story of him and Amanda in a backyard, so I'm assuming it's her parents' house, but them playing with the dogs and whatnot.

So it was very much like we are still a united front. She didn't come to the wedding, but I instantly came home to her, and she also posted about her mental health. I don't know if you guys saw that. Yeah, I saw that, yeah. So it's just like, I don't know. I feel like they're trying to present a united front,

and I wish them the best. When Lindsay too was like, her don't know, I feel like they're trying to present a united front and like I wish them the best. When Lindsay too was like, her idea of sobriety and whatnot was like outing Carl for taking mushrooms when you took them with him and left that out. She made sense, but it made no sense that she participated. Again, yeah, it doesn't matter if you claim to be sober. She was just trying to pose the question like, what does sober mean? Like, and I'm curious to know what you all think. Like, what does sober mean? Because she was saying you just did mush, you microdosed mushrooms and you smoke weed.

I do think it's a valid question. I do think maybe that should have been a question at the start of his sobriety of like, hey, let's get everything on the table here. What's like on limits, what's off limits? Like, how are we going to navigate through this? Because I do see her side of like, not having that conversation.

And then him being like, oh, let's do some mushrooms. And it's like, wait a second, is this gonna like send you into a place it shouldn't? Or like, if he's like, I'm gonna go smoke some weed. It's like, okay, but wait, is that gonna do like, it's I feel like it's always... To Nellie's point, it came across that in the moment she was fine with it, and then decided to use it against him when she was catching heat for saying something she shouldn't have said. But I will say the whole sobriety conversation

and weaponizing sobriety, I just feel like it's been talked about so much and I get it's the reunion and they have to rehash it, but they're rehashing something that happened in the beginning of the season and I just feel like once Lindsay was like, I shouldn't have said that. It's always kind of annoying when they like go to the person who's really involved

in the main part of the drama and that person kind of does something that they almost don't want that person to do, which is say, you know what, you're right. I shouldn't have said that. I was wrong. And even though they said that, like the rest of the cast basically had all their

talking points ready to go, that they kind of ignored the apology that happened, and they still like, they wanted more. Still like, scold and like, attack that person, even it's just like, well, I mean, again, I was wrong. I apologize, yeah. And they kind of relitigate it, and it's just like, I don't know, I was kind of over it at that point. Like again, she was wrong for saying it.

I think we're kind of ignoring the fact that it can be very difficult to be in a relationship with someone who does struggle with sobriety and there probably is a lot of trauma and baggage from that friendship and not excusing anything that Lindsay said, but like I'm not gonna like act like she's the, like how could you, how dare you? Like, I felt like the rest of the cast

was being a little righteous about a fuck up that she apologized for, acting like, none of them are capable of saying something they would have to apologize for. It just seemed a bit righteous, and like we said before, attacking. It's kind of using that to attack Lindsay rather than acting like,

this acted like it was how dare she. It's like, I get how she dares. I do think Kyle calling Amanda a fucking bitch is equivalent. Yeah, and should have been talked about. Well, also Lindsay apologized. Like, she apologized for saying cocaine Carl. Yeah, they act like they're like,

how could she have said that? It's just like, again, we've all said things we've had to apologize before. It's, you know, it rhymes, so I, you know, she can just set it. We all say fucked up things behind closed doors to our close friends. Yeah, she also was drinking,

which again, doesn't make any excuse, but if we're trying to figure out how she could have done it. You're not thinking as like, you know, sympathetically, or you know, I think she was just activated and not making an excuse. I do think it is fucked up, and I do think Carl is right in saying like, when you bring that up,

it can trigger someone in sobriety to like relapse, but I do think they sat on it a little too long and didn't focus on the other shitty things that happened this season. It does seem like, yeah, when they were talking about the influencer stuff that like Lindsay almost went a little too far. It's like I get that you, I get that Carl's investment ideas and like his career ideas not always be the best and

and if you're in a relationship where your future plans are maybe for you to work less to be the more primary caretaker You know like you want to see that person be a little bit more Focused but like I thought Andy did a great job of kind of litigating that where he kind of went back and forth And it's just like you almost you sound a bit harsh for someone who's literally doing the same thing, right? And she didn't really have anything to say to that because it was true. No, it looked kind of dumb. I have a hard time believing that Lindsay only makes

20 to $30,000 more a year than Carl just because this is a space where women tend to make a lot more than men. The entire cast of Summer House, I'm willing to bet, has a much greater women audience than male audience, including the male people on this show. So it's just harder to market, you know, to women. Yeah, but it's still the same job.

So it's like, you know, they both have Summer House and they both are brand influencers. So just because Lindsay is either getting paid more for her brand partnerships or has more of them. It's still the same. To act like it's good enough for you, but not a good enough for Carl is hypocritical. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, are we satisfied with Wes' apology? I don't know, I just felt bad for Sierra. Why? I don't know. I just, I always feel bad seeing, yeah, that too. I don't know, seeing her cry and the fact that she's still hung up on it. It's like watching Austin from Southern Charm all over again, where it's just like, this guy is literally saying all of the things that should make you feel like, no, not the

right choice. And yet she's still crying, being like, maybe there's a chance that we could get back together if he changes or jumps through hoops. And it's like, this man's not going to do that. So it's just sad in that sense to watch her be hung up on him. Yeah, I agree. And him just be like, I wasn't expecting her to say that.

And it's like, anything else. Just say anything else. What would you want him to say? I don't know, just like, I appreciated our time together. Like, unfortunately, obviously I'm not ready to be in a relationship with you and you should move on or just something that would be emotionally intelligent, which obviously I know your argument is he's not,

but I'm just. What if the truth is that there's actually something that would be emotionally intelligent, which obviously I know your argument is he's not, but I'm just... What if the truth is that there's actually something about Sierra that he grew not to like, but doesn't feel comfortable saying that on national television? And that's fine. Again, you asked if I was happy with his apology, and my answer is no.

Okay. Period. Don't ask again. How do you feel about the, the, the leg touching? Is it different for a man or a woman to touch someone's leg? It's different going either way, yeah. It's absolutely different. I think there's different ways that it happens.

I think the like, like, like the slap is a little different than like a, a linger. Caress. Yeah, a set and hold. Well she was doing both though. Well listen, I think it can be different, Like the slap is a little different than like a linger. Well she was doing both though. Well listen, I think it can be different, but I also think like, I mean, when I used to frequent bars back in the day,

you know, I always felt violated by women at the bars. I would have my ass grabbed all the time. Oh, who's grabbing asses? Tacky. Tacky. Yeah, no, but asses? Tacky. Tacky. Yeah, no, but it happens. Bars are different contexts though. In like a bar, people are like, no, no, no, no, no.

But like in bars, people are more touchy and like alcohol and flirtatious. I guess what I'm trying to say is, I don't think it's any more okay for the women to grab men's asses without their consent than it is for men to do that. I think it's gross either way. And I do think there's a double standard there. That being said, I do think it is different. a man kind of touches a woman

in any way without her consent rather than what Paige was doing. I think it's a little different, it is. Yeah, I definitely don't wanna be, I think there's a difference between like stranger, like out in a bar and strangers and then like the people who live in the summer house, which is obviously what we're talking about.

First of all, if anyone is still grabbing strangers' asses in bars, stop. Yeah, don't do that. That's really weird. Gross. I don't really know why you're doing that. But yeah, second, if I'm out in a bar and a stranger touches me in any sort of way, I'm ready to fight.

But if we're here and, I don't know, you or Derek or Justin. Justin with the poke. Just testing. I don't know, but it was funny how they like replayed it, how many times she did it and then she did it again when it was. I thought it was very funny that Jesse brought it up and was like, by the way, you know, you touched my leg quite a bit.

It was pretty funny. Do we feel differently about Lindsay being blindsided after hearing that production didn't know that they were going to film the breakup scene? I don't think Lindsay has any less of a right to feel that way. And I can empathize why Lindsay, even after hearing what Andy had to say,

isn't just, isn't gonna buy it, you know? Granted, if we're taking Lindsay at her word when she came on this show, she talked about like the night before how like Carl locked himself in a room and refused to talk to her, which kind of hints of like not wanting to like start the conversation

before the camera showed up. That being said, I do believe Andy, I believe Andy, I don't think he's lying about it said, I do believe Andy, I believe Andy. I don't think he's lying about it. And I do think that adds context for myself. I believe Carl more than I did before. I think it was a cop out for them to say we didn't know. Like for me, it's giving reality Von T's

where it's like we had every reason to know that this might be happening, but we're gonna just say no. I believe that Carl a thousand percent knew he was going to end the engagement. Exactly. Now, do I think he told producers, hey, I'm gonna end this engagement? Maybe not, but I do think he told producers, like, you need to come, like, you should come film this, like, we're gonna have a talk, you know?

And I do think in his mind, he had a plan to end the engagement, whether he told producers or not. I do think he came into that conversation knowing he was in it. I agree, I agree completely. I think that Carl knew what he was gonna do and I think he didn't tell production. Yeah, I believe Andy, I believe the producers. I believe that they didn't know.

I don't believe that Carl didn't know. If Carl's telling the truth, then I don't think the production did him any favors in the edit because the way it's edited makes it look like he was just unloading on Lindsay and venting and just saying a bunch of mean things that he just bottled up over time, which is kind of what you do in a breakup where you just finally, especially in this type of dynamic where you feel like you kinda didn't stand up for yourself and finally you have the opportunity to do that

and he's just kinda unloading on her. Now again, that could have been a three hour conversation in which we saw 15 minutes of it, but for Carl to give this to the show and for them to edit that looking like he was just unloading on Lindsay, it very much looks like he planned on doing it. But so it just, if that is the case,

then the show didn't do him any favors. Well, what I wanna know too is, cause they filmed Kyle and Amanda's wedding as kind of like a bonus, and I wanted to know if there was a plan to film their wedding. Because that's where I'm like, I think the excuse that was given was saying

that they wanted to film them having a conversation, patching up from the last fight, because we can't go into a wedding with, like, the season leaving off the way that it was. So that's why I'm like, that to me kind of plays a factor in it, because I'm like, did Carl actually know that, like, he wasn't gonna go through with the wedding in that moment? Or, like, why would they pick up cameras otherwise

if it wasn't to film the breakup conversation? Yeah, it's interesting because all these shows that have done this, like, pick up cameras otherwise if it wasn't to film the breakup conversation? Yeah, it's interesting because all these shows that have done this like, pick up cameras later and patch it into the finale of the season, like when The Valley did it, for example, like that season didn't end a way a season normally would if they weren't gonna then pick up cameras again. Yeah, I don't know,

I feel like the whole like Scandival recipe, if you will, is like, okay, well, now we're gonna do this six months later or two months later, and then it's like... And I feel like they kind of have to because so much happens in those six months and then it's like, where were we left? Yeah, exactly. I just think production wasn't oblivious

to the fact that he was gonna do something. Because even the conversation right before Lindsay was him talking to Carl and not being able to say, I want to still marry her. So like if production wasn't, they might not have literally been told, like, I'm going to divorce. But I think that they knew, like, this is probably going to happen. I would tend to believe that. So I think it's a cop out to be like, we didn't know. I'm really curious when they did in the middle of the fight, were there any, like, we didn't know. I'm really curious when they did, in the middle of the fight, were there any bathroom breaks?

Did they stop down? And then did Carl and or Lindsay have any chats with producers in the middle of a fight? Cause that'll happen on Bachelor. If it's an intense moment, they'll break sometimes, take a moment and then come back to the fight and pick it up. And I wonder if that happened. I wish we could ask Lindsey or Carl that.

That would be interesting. Well, we have Elise coming up, and I know you guys, I'm curious, after our commentary about the Sierra and west of it all, are people still pretty much locked in their POVs? I think everybody's split. I think a lot of people agree with your position and then I think maybe more people don't.

Maybe more people don't. Maybe the majority don't. Not even me. Some people, it's split for sure. But like. Before, but we're watching, okay, the segue into perfect match and like talking about these guys in perfect match,

specifically like Harry, right? It is, I am floored, and maybe it's just because it's two different audiences, but I am floored by what is the reaction to West and Sierra, and specifically calling out West, and the lack of internet reaction to Harry Jowsey. Because, I mean, again, I think West has maturing to do. I don't think West is without fault.

Like, that's not the conversation. But I do think that West is also a product of our society's stance on dating. That's not to alleviate West of any wrongdoing, but I think the acceptance of hookup culture, I think that the acceptance of relationship status like situationships and things like that is causing people like Wes, both men and women, to have commitment issues, to be afraid of relationships, to not know how to

define a relationship, to expect a lot less than they want out of relationships. And I think it leads to poor communication, and I think it leads to upset feelings, and which is all the more reason why if you're people like Ciara, you can be upset all you want, but if you really want to protect yourself, you have to enforce your own boundaries. Because my point is, regardless of what you want to say about West, had Ciara done that, she probably could have prevented some hurt feelings. Flip to Harry. The reason why Harry is so dangerous, he's like he's an emotional terrorist from what we're seeing. Again, like it is so outrageous on this show that it makes me wonder that that they it's not not real. That they are they're

almost just like playing a role. You know, I you know from universe to universe, you know, you wonder how authentic these characters are. But Harry's behavior is so diabolical, you know, because Harry's... He's telling her that he loves her. That's what I'm saying. It's just like if you're... Love bombing, gaslighting, like all of the things.

Exactly. And I'm watching it in real time. You know, we go back and forth, and like, not to re-litigate it, but there are certain things that Sierra could have done to protect herself. That if you're Jess, like listen, when you're in a relationship,

you wanna believe your person. And when they say things like, yes, is it obvious from us watching that Harry's probably love bombing Jess because he gets in trouble and the next day we see them saying, I love you to each other. And like the notes on the bed.

Yeah, but when you're in it, you wanna believe that it's genuine. Because even though we are aware of love bombing and all these types of terms and people moving too fast, you still wanna believe that you can fall in love and love at first sight. There's love at first sight, so you're vulnerable. And Harry's doing the type of behavior

that even if you are good at enforcing your boundaries and even if you are good at checking in with yourself, you're still at risk of getting mind fucked by people like Harry. And there's nothing you can do about it. And that's what's so dangerous about guys like him. It just blows my mind that the internet is losing their shit over a guy like West, who is just like a little immature and has no experience in dating, is kind of like giving a little fuck boy. But he's not giving like lying to your face.

Like Harry comes across as a guy who gets off on finding people who are good at, or who are just at least good at setting their boundaries or trying their best to like change the behavior. Like they've done the work, they've had a bad past, they maybe had a bad picker in the past, and now they're putting themselves out there only to run into a guy like Harry. And Harry, I don't know if you've heard the work, they've had a bad past, they maybe had a bad picker in the past,

and now they're putting themselves out there only to run into a guy like Harry. And Harry, I don't know if you've met him, he's very charming, he's tall, he's very good looking, he's a very intimidating presence. I also think we have to keep in mind that when we're watching this show, so we've seen Jess now on two different shows.

We've seen her on Love is Blind, and we've seen her now on Perfect Match. But when they filmed this stuff, so Jess is now filming her second show, Jess now on two different shows. We've seen her on Love is Blind, and we've seen her now on Perfect Match. But when they filmed this stuff, so Jess is now filming her second show, and when she's filming the show, she's a nobody. No one knows who she is. You know what I'm saying?

She's never been famous. So she's interacting with a bunch of people who are literally celebrities, and Harry being the biggest celebrity of them all. So there's definitely a power dynamic difference in that relationship that Harry is taking advantage of. And I think it's just something to note when you watch it of just like how inexperienced Jess is in this atmosphere

compared to people like Harry. And it blows my mind that people are just like, ha ha ha ha ha, it's just like a TV show. The comment section under Wes' Instagram versus Harry's Instagram is wild. It's fucking wild. It's wild. It's absolutely.

And it's weird because Harry has very consistent issues in relationships that have just been out there and talked about, obviously. But it's just interesting to me that when somebody brings it up to him, he plays the whole, like, that's so hurtful. I can't believe that you would say that. I've moved on from that. And then still exhibiting the same behavior. But it's like, we're upset Wes like duped us essentially,

which is not true, but it's like kind of this like, oh, I thought you were this kind of way. I'm shocked by this, but it's really not that big of a deal where Harry's just like, hi, I say terrible things about people. I'm bringing up someone sex shaming, slut shaming, like love bombing, bringing up her kid involved in it. Like, I'm like, how long... Everything he did was diabolical.

But that's like manipulating him. He's just horrible. Like, he's horrible. But I want to know how long... Everything he did was diabolical. But that's like manipulating. He's just horrible. Like, he's horrible. But I want to know how long this process is, because I'm like, also, are we not like red flagging where I'm like, you love me? It's been, I've been here for three days. Yeah.

You know what I mean? Like, it's like, but it's this controlled environment as well that I'm like, I can understand how people get sucked into this reality, but it wouldn't be the same reality outside of this villa. He definitely followed the Bachelor timeline, and I feel like in both of, he got like, get sucked into this reality, but it wouldn't be the same reality outside of this villa. He definitely followed the Bachelor timeline, and I feel like in both of, he got,

in both of the scenarios where he was in trouble with Jess, it was, but I'm falling in love with you. And then it was, but I love you. And it's like, you are so sick in the fucking head. It's so scary to watch. I did something to embarrass you, but now I'm crying and I feel bad about it and it don't make me feel worse.

I've been literally vomiting. Well then he says, I don't wanna disappoint Autumn, your daughter. That's the part where he was weaponizing her daughter. Everything he did was, it's as if Harry, that's what I'm saying, it's so outrageous. It's as if Netflix and Perfect Match are trying to give you a tutorial

because I'm the guy who's always like, that's not gaslighting, that's not love bombing, that's a misuse of that word. And Harry's here to be like, let me show you. It's like a- I'm gonna give you an example of a tutorial. It's like a tutorial, or a public service announcement on what the actual definition of these things are.

And Harry is a walking textbook of all these diabolical behaviors that are in fact, like forms of emotional abuse. Let's get Alisa on here to give us maybe some, fill some gaps or get us some answers that we are looking for. Like did he actually make out with Melinda? There's a lot of decisions you have to make

when you have a baby. And the one that I feel the most comfortable and safe making is using huggies for our daughter River. I always tell Nick that when River's crying, she's trying to tell us something, and that's the case with most babies. They express it through cries, and so we've turned to huggies. The new huggie skin essentials are here. A brand new dermatologist approved line of diapers, wipes, and pull-ups training pants that are all designed with baby sensitive skin in mind.

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Essentials has your big kid covered too with a training pant that is ultra soft and breathable to help protect sensitive skin through potty training. Learn more at Huggies.com. Once again head to Huggies.com to learn more. Hello. Hello, how are you? So good, how are you Elise? Welcome to the show. Thank you, I feel honored. I've been watching your podcast for ages,

I'm like what the hell? Oh my God, well we are honored to have you Elise, it's been so fun to watch. We were just talking about Mr. One Harry Jowsey. Oh God. Yeah. I can't name one more time this. Yeah, sorry.

We cover a lot of shows on this show and I think it's very fascinating for us to kind of go from like Bravo universe to like Netflix universe to like Bachelor because it's like different fans with different expectations, right? And like for example, on The Bachelor, I think a lot of people who go on that show

because of a product of the expectations of the audience, I think even though nowadays there's a lot of like, talk about like they're really showing up to be influencers, I do think whether they actually mean it or they pretend to mean it, there is a level of sincerity for the people who show up for The Bachelor that are like, here, I'm really here to find love.

Or at least I want to fake being here to find love. And on Perfect Match, I can't really tell. It's like, I'm looking at Harry and his behavior seems almost so diabolical and so outrageous. Like, he seems like an actual bad guy. And again, we recognize that when we watch these shows, there is an edit and things like that,

and we don't wanna necessarily like judge a book by its cover because, you know, maybe there's things left unsaid. But like when you were filming with Harry, like these behaviors, are you watching a version that is shocking to you? Or did you see this type of behavior that's giving very gaslighty, very kind of weaponizing, you know, Jess's daughter against him, the crying,

the feigning puking and things like that. Like, what is your take on Harry and is he as diabolical as he's coming across? So I think when I first joined the Villa and we were all kind of there, you're taking it so you're getting to know everyone because it's not just one person you're getting to know. It's like everyone in the house.

And then I feel like as time goes on, you get to know each and because it's not just one person you're getting to know, it's like everyone in the house. And then I feel like as time goes on, you get to know each and every single person better and how they interact also with other people. And I could just see straight through the bullshit. I could just see it in his eyes. Just everything to me was just screaming, I don't trust this guy, hence why I was taking my time with everything.

And I knew there was just a matter of time where he was going to slip up. I feel like if your whole personality is about redeeming yourself and you're back for a second shot and everything, it's just, it's off to a bad start kind of thing. Cause he was kept getting annoyed and angry and crying over people saying like, I know your past, like I've heard things in the outside world. yet his whole personality on the show is I'm here to redeem myself and to find the one. So it's like you're kind of contradicting yourself

at that point. But again, it's Harry, I don't know. It's confusing. Like I'm willing to believe that like whatever Harry was, like whatever amount of love Harry's capable of feeling or giving, like I don't doubt that he probably cared for her. You know what I'm saying? I think there's a lot of dangerous daters out there

who still fall in love or fall in lust or whatever you wanna call it. It's just more once he enters into these relationships, he's, again, the word that keeps coming to mind is diabolical or it's just like he can't, you know, he on this, on the whatever it was, the mixers, you know, like he was just, you know, being another fuck boy, you know, like I'm making commentary when, when What's Her Name was like going hard of the paint at CAS and Harry's just like, if I had two kids or whatever, I'd still

wouldn't be able to help myself. And you like, that just seems like an honest statement from Harry. And then when he's back with Jess, he's like, it's a totally different, he can't help himself but to lie and to see. And it's just, you know, he seems incapable of a healthy relationship.

Do you know what I think is quite scary watching it back because we were all there, so we know a lot of people only see 10% of what happened. I almost feel like he believes his own lies and he's so good at convincing you that like something didn't happen. Or like even after I'd be questioning myself, like was this just a friendship thing?

And then I look back at something that maybe wasn't caught in the edit and I'm like, no, like I'm getting gaslit. But in the moment you're so, you believe, like I'm getting gaslit but in the moment you're so, you believe him, it's wild to rewatch it. If I'm being honest. It seems like one of his moves, yeah, it seems like one of his moves is to downplay

the seriousness of anything. So like when he was like dating you and then he swerved, it sounds like, yeah, he tells you, oh, it was just a friend thing, no big deal. It also seems like sometimes he uses the TV show in general, like oh, this is a TV show, this isn't real, like these aren't real relationships, but like, it sounds like many people there

were like actually developing really real feelings, like that's true, right? It's not like you weren't all just faking these relationships, I mean, a lot of people were actually falling for each other. 100%, I mean, like, it's funny because the day in the house feels like a week. I don't know how to describe it,

unless you're there and you're filming. I know what you're saying, yeah. Yeah. I relate to you. And the public's like, you've only been dating for three days, and it's like, no, it looks like three days, but it's actually been like seven or eight days, which sounds ridiculous, I know. But when you're in that environment, it feels so, so real.

Do you stand by your choice to match with Brighton and leave Justin? I don't know if it was the edit or just the way they showed it, but it seemed like, you know, Brighton got you with the little bit of like, hey, I'm a little bit of a bad boy. I'm gonna be a little bit fun. And do you think, is that how it felt in the moment where maybe you just realized it wasn't gonna happen with you and Justin, and regardless if it was gonna happen with you and Brighton, maybe you were just willing to give that a shot.

Yeah. Do you know what, from the very beginning, like the very first night in my head, it was Brighton or Harry. They were my two kind of picks. And I'd said that also. And then. What happened was I feel like I'm a Leo.

I don't take criticism very well. And when you're constantly being criticized of I'm not moving fast enough, Justin and Harry were constantly saying that, you know, I wasn't as touchy feely as the others. I wasn't as open as the others. Like that starts to chip off on you as a person. And that's when I was getting more and more kind of pissed off with the situation. Whereas like Justin was moving faster than I and I wasn't and I just, I was getting almost the ick with how things were going. And Brighton was just like, as soon as I say it, it sounded wild me saying this, but this breath of like fresh air, he kind of just let me be me. And, you know, I didn't see

his show before we were filming on Squid Game. So I didn't see his personality. I'm also not in the room with him and Dominique. We don't catch every conversation that is being, you know, sad. So I'm just judging my interaction with Brighton and he is a good looking guy. So yeah, I just, I knew in the moment it was gonna be a big decision and probably looked really down upon, but I can't fake things.

Like I cannot fake things and I'm the one sharing a bed with someone every single night. You have to go with, I guess, lust in the moment, I'm not sure. All right, did Melinda and Harry kiss? Like, when that all happened, I mean, it seems like there's no video evidence of it.

I mean, Harry was giving himself away when he immediately was laughing and then thought to himself, well, where is it? His defense was, there's no record of it. No one saw it, there's no record of it, so therefore it can't be true. Does anyone know for sure whether it actually happened or is it just a matter of it's a he said, she said situation?

I mean, there is no smoke without fire. I think it would be ridiculous for Melinda to come up with something like that. And I thought it was so disrespectful when he's like, you're just here for your 15 minutes. I mean, she did a huge like presenting show on dated and related. She's very well spoken.

She's a smart girl. So I truly believe it did happen. However, like I know the internet right now thinks that my whole storyline was getting back at Harry when it wasn't. I was actually really happy for Harry and Jess. I thought that they were a way better match than Harry and myself, especially watching it back.

He was probably really drunk. What do you make of the guys who all seem to be following bro code? And I really like Kaz and... Stevan, yeah, I'm always like, is it Steven? Stevan, but specifically Stevan. He seems like he's got the bleached hair and he's got the tattoo and it reads fuck boy

but I'm really enjoying him and Alara's relationship. He seems like a really sweet guy. But why was he defending Harry like that and going to Jess and talking about the 15 minutes? It's just like, why are these guys buying Harry's bullshit so easily? Like, what do you think is going on there? I have no idea.

Maybe Harry's paid the money out. I'm sorry. Sorry. Do you think there's an element of, do you think there's an element of Harry being the guy with the most followers, and the most popular, and the most famous? Do you think it's like a lot

of these guys kind of being his like minions and like doing what Harry says and doing what Harry thinks they should do and being afraid to kind of step out of his shadow? A hundred percent, like a hundred percent. Yeah, not Brighton. When Brighton was talking to you, he's just like, well, I didn't want to step on Harry's toes.

It's like you didn't have a problem stepping on anyone else's toes but Harry's. Like clearly he didn't think to step on Harry's toes. It's like you didn't have a problem stepping on anyone else's toes but Harry's. Like clearly he didn't think that he could win against Harry. And it's like so, it's such an ick to see these guys cave for someone like Harry. It's like, we get it, he's six five, who cares? Like have it, you know, go down swinging at least. The encouragement that you gave Britain.

Yeah, Britain. That Kaz seemed to have a strong reaction to. In the moment, did you see where he was coming from or were you like, no, I'm truly just like trying to be a part of this experience? I feel like every single person should have had the same kind of like experience where they could have spoken to whoever they wanted like to try and get into the villa or to find their perfect match. So I will stand by that. And after having watched that scene, to be honest, it was like, it was getting so boring like every night. You know, I love Kaz as a friend. I really,

really do. However, it was just getting pretty boring every night. Like they were having, you know, Mike and Kaz were having conversations with different people, and then they couldn't make their mind up. No coming back together. And it was just dragging on all the time. And I think, at some kind of point, you need to just make a decision like, do you want to be with Micah or not? Why are you entertaining all these other conversations? And it was just like, to me it was just becoming, I don't know, quite ironic, like what is happening?

And I mean, they threw the first rock at me, so I was just throwing little pebbles back. You know, I very quickly realized, okay, I'm not here to make friends. This is a competition of love. And that's exactly what I did back. Like I was there to find my perfect match, not kind of, you kind of help other relationships.

The whole point of the show is to find your perfect match and to win. Was Micah equally talking to men or was Micah talking to guys because Kaz was talking to women? Like was she reacting to Kaz or was she kind of doing her own thing but not, because when Kaz made out with Holly,

is it Holly? Yeah. Like it's extremely aggressive. It seemed aggressive and outrageous and I get it was a game, but for Kaz not to acknowledge that Micah had the right to feel a certain way about it and then for him to kind of accuse Micah

of having a double standard, I didn't quite see the double standard, but is there something that we were missing from not having been there, or how did you see it, like having been in the villa when it was going down? I think in the villa, I definitely thought it was more Kaz

kind of entertaining the conversations, than I do think a lot of girls were throwing themselves at Kaz. And it was probably quite, you know, quite difficult for Kaz. I get it. But then on the other hand, having watched the show back, I think what a lot of people are forgetting, because it seems to be on the internet, this whole team Mica against team Elise, which is wild, because anyways, is obviously as a couple, they try to mess with Harry and I, which they did. Mica thought it was very funny after having said to me, you have nothing to worry about.

Jess isn't Harry's type. He was to a T. However, then she speaks to Justin, finally when I had a match, before I spoke to Kaz. So I was like, okay, we're playing this game. And then again, she speaks to Brighton before I spoke to Kaz. So I was like, okay, we're playing this game. And then again, she speaks to Brighton after I spoke to him. So I don't know what the game was there. Everyone's saying that I was against Micah and Kaz,

but I'm kind of seeing it from the other side. So I'm not sure if it's because Kaz was speaking to other guys or if there was just this thing between Micah and I. Have you spoken with Micah post-show at all to kind of clear the air or no? We were cool and now I feel like it's not so, we were like fine after filming

and we all went on holiday together. This was another thing, like a group of us went on holiday and it was all fine throughout the year on different time zones. I'm in London, she's in LA, but I feel like since the show's come out, it's a bit hostile, it's a bit awkward. I mean, do you think Micah was playing,

eventually playing the game like you encouraged Britton to do, or do you feel like she was coming after your men? I mean, I feel like she was playing the game from the very beginning. Like she threw the first rock, and then everyone on the internet is like, Elise is the villain, she's horrible. And I'm like, are we watching the same show here?

Like, who threw, like, you know, she threw the first shade and it was never me like trying to break Kaz and Micah up, but I think everyone watching it could see that throughout the whole time, they were not 100%. Every time someone walked in, Kaz's eyes shifted and I'm like, this is gonna work for a second in the outside world. Like, fuck.

It's like, to any women that walk past you in like 10 minutes in London. Yeah. You could argue that you were doing her a favor, whether she thought that or not. She did me a favor apparently with Harry, which she did, but then I guess I was doing her a favor, but I genuinely, it's still mind baffles me

that I'm in the wrong for matching up with Brighton towards Micah. Like I spoke to him first at the, you know, girls day when the guys came into the, they'd gone to the beach. And then I spoke to him second after I gave her the chance to speak to me. She still didn't choose to match up.

So at this point, I'm like, is it strategy to kind of speak to loads of other people and then every night match up together? She wanted to have matched up with Brighton. There was many opportunities, but you know, it's you know, you have 15 minutes or an hour to make a decision. I'm going to make a quick decision. You know, you're there to find your perfect match not to make best friends At least I never thought you were the villain. Thank you I mean, yeah, I mean I first you seen maybe slightly petty with Harry

But like I certainly didn't fault you for that but like also it's not that serious. Yeah, I didn't think it was like That serious. I don't know. Maybe but the Internet, so. There's this whole thing being thrown around, like, this lingo of girls, girl. And I'm like, not a single person in there was a complete girls, girl. You can't be a complete girls, girl, because whoever you're gonna match up with, you're gonna step on someone's toes at some point. You had to take someone's man at some point.

Yeah, I mean, it's the premise of the show. For you to show up and be a girls, girl, or a guys, I mean, first of all, yeah, I don't even like seeing the whole bro code conversations on this show, it would be kind of bad and boring TV if it was just like girls, women focusing on being girls, girls in this atmosphere where you guys are literally given the opportunity to sabotage

relationships, that's the whole point of the boardroom. Like that's the fucking show. Like what do you want them to do? Speaking of girls, girls, how did you feel about how Melinda told Jess about the kiss? Like, did you feel like that was the right setting or environment or should she have pulled her aside, just the two of them?

Probably, she probably should have pulled Jess to the side, but at the same time, it's like, at least it's all out in the open. I feel like it's in that house. It's like, well, she said this have pulled Jess to the side, but at the same time, it's like, at least it's all out in the open. I feel like it's in that house. It's like, well, she said this and then she said this and then he said that. And then it's like Chinese whispers in there and everything gets muddled up and exaggerated.

So part of me thinks how she did it was not cool, especially like sitting kind of at the back of the table. It almost felt like a meeting room. It was very serious. I was sat there like, fuck, I'm just trying to drink my rose and have a good time. I feel like if we were to talk to Jess, my guess is she would probably,

I'm guessing acknowledge that she was a little too, like she clearly tried to blame Melinda for Harry's behavior. Like she was taking out her embarrassment and frustration out on Melinda, but at the same time, it kind of felt like Melinda enjoyed telling the group that Harry kissed her in front of Jess.

So I see both sides. It's Harry's just a fuck, man. Like he's just, he's an emotional terrorist. I don't know how else to describe him. Yeah, I did feel really, really sorry for Jess in that moment because I feel like Melinda only did it to cause some drama. Mm-hmm. Like, I'm not friends with Melinda,

so I don't care what I say, but I do think she was just doing it for fun or... And she almost looked happy kind of delivering the news. And it's this whole, like, we're looking out for you girls in the house. And then every time I'm watching the show, it's like, we're gonna come and get your guys. Like, da da da.

And I'm like, what? Like the whole thing to me is just confusing. Like it felt like, it felt like boarding school. I went to boarding school. It genuinely felt like boarding school. How shocking was the Kaz making out with Holly and then matching with Christine? Yeah, wow, that was a swerve.

I mean, I just, half of the time my mouth is just on the floor. I have no idea what to say to that. I was so, so sure. It was just a game. Yeah, that was wild. No, you shouldn't have done that. Even when someone said to me, like, oh, Elise, who do you think is the best looking in here? Like, give them a kiss.

I didn't want to kind of like, you know, go straight to Justin as he walked in. So I kissed a lot. Like, there was so many different opportunities he could have done. He could have ran and got Micah. Yeah, yeah. But I mean, she was speaking to Brighton, so.

Oh my gosh. Do you have any major regrets, or overall you had a good time? Not regrets, but the only thing I'd say is looking back at the show, I feel kind of like, I feel like I look quite sad sometimes. Like I'm over it is the word. And I just feel like I maybe should have kind of brushed things off a bit better and just got on with it. But it really just throws me when you think people are your friends.

And it's like a very backstabbing environment. I did have a very good time, but I think looking back, I should have just kind of gone with it a bit more and just not cared. Who are you closest with today? The tough one. I'm friends with like a lot of them, a lot of people in the villa. Maybe Tolu, Alara. I mean, I was very, very close to Stevan during filming,

but it's really difficult when we live halfway across the world from each other. Yeah. Final question, is Harry more misunderstood or totally bad news? Like, which one is it? I think his whole life just revolves around TV and getting more followers. I watched his podcast the other day,

and it's like, oh now he's ready to marry. But I thought a year ago on the show, he was ready to marry. So I think everything's just the very good, he's got a bloody good PR team, let me tell you. So I don't know, I hope he does settle down and find love. Why do you think people are so willing to buy his bullshit? Because I truly have never seen anything like it

on reality TV, someone who has such a long reputation of, and like just a trail of destructive behavior and a bunch of women coming forward saying, this guy did this. And listen, it's one thing for someone to come out and you're like, well, there's two sides to every story. Maybe it's like, maybe this is not totally fair, but it's seen story after story. And then here he is on a nationally televised

reality TV show demonstrating some of the most diabolical behavior. And yet it still seems like he's able to maneuver through it. What do you think it is? What do you think it is about him? I think it's entertaining and a lot of people find it funny and a lot of people relate more to the villain

than to the hero, because they see, you know what I mean? Yeah. It's more like intriguing and I don't know what it is. I feel like a lot of girls think they can change him. It's like the chase. It's last. I don't know what it is, but all I can say is it's entertaining as fuck.

And I don't think he's a bad person all around. I just think he needs a bit more therapy. I know you said he's been going to therapy. He's a bit more therapy. I know he said he's been going to therapy Elise thanks so much for joining the show We've enjoyed watching you the best of luck and everything going forward with whatever it is you decide to do and thanks for coming on Thank you so much guys. Bye What do we think again, I just wonder if Harry had an American accent, would this be, like, would it be received the same way?

I think the accent definitely helps him. A thousand percent. I mean, and if, have you met him? No, I've met him. I mean, he is a giant. You know? He's tall. He's very tall. Yes, and he's like 6'5", he's very attractive,

he's very, he's very charming. So I can see why when these women meet him and he puts on his charm and he says all these things. You know, you look at someone like Jess, who I think when she was here before coming off of Love is Blind, she talked about how she hadn't dated in years and she was doing a lot of work on herself

and stuff like that. And then you meet a guy like Harry, who's this giant, beautiful guy, he has an Australian accent, and Harry's talking about therapy and wanting to change. When someone comes and says, oh, I wanna change, it's like, yeah, we wanna give that person a chance. And you're right, we wanna be that person

that they changed for us. And you're like so flattered, because it's like me? Yeah. You want me? But he seems so aware of that. I do think when it comes to the kiss with Melinda, if he's saying his initial thing that he says

when Melinda says, oh, we just kissed, was nobody saw it. It's like, how do you know nobody saw it? That's because you made sure to look, to make sure there were no cameras around, and then you did it. So like. He's a professional.

He says like he's been on a couple seasons of Perfect Match, he knows how this shit works. You know, a lot of these people here don't know. So he is, he's playing chess while they're playing checkers. I mean, it was just so obvious, just like how guilty he was. Like, because first he's laughing about it, just so obvious just like how guilty he was. Because first he's laughing about it,

and you could tell he was fucked, he was totally fated. And you could tell as he sobered up, his defense became weaker but more aggressive. He was more aggressively, at first he was like, ha ha ha ha, that didn't happen, you're silly, you're gonna get me in trouble. To gaslighting Melinda and trying to, accusing her for taking advantage of him and his celebrity.

Yeah, also him blaming his either hungover or drunk vomiting on feeling bad about what he did. Yeah, I feel gaslit, because I don't know who I believe. And I always feel a need, this is not valid, but I always feel a need to try to defend But I always feel a need to like try to defend Harry Well, I feel like nothing like I feel like he's had some like inclusive the accent No, but I really want to know I want to know why this guy gets away with what's so like he said it

He definitely shouldn't I feel like my perspective is he's had inclusive takes on certain things So in my head he gets a little bit more respect. But then I feel like I'm- Oh, so if they agree with you, they don't have to have good character? No, no, no, no, no. What do you mean inclusive takes? Like just in regards to like the queer community, like he said things publicly that I think

like a lot of public figures wouldn't say that I agree with. That being said, now I feel like I'm Jess where I'm like, I feel like Melinda was telling the truth, but also part of me wants to be like she lied. I think Harry's smart enough to say those things to like, garner favor. He's an ally, but he treats women like shit. I guess. Right, like he's saying, I respect Jess for being a single mom,

but then he's gonna go treat her the way that he's treating her. Exactly, yeah. But then I feel like, so I agree with like the whole mind fucking thing. And I feel like I am Jess as an audience member. Didn't Melinda also have somebody confirm that her makeup was on his face or something? That was a conversation after K.I. It was like brain or halloumi. Somebody saw that.

Someone said it, yeah. Which, and I don't know how tall she is, but again. He was holding, he was carrying her. He was carrying her. So I'm like, and I- Face to face. Yeah. But they didn't kiss.

But they didn't kiss. But they didn't kiss. Okay. Well, it's saying that my brain is like, well, if you pick her up, like it's possible your head like touches her head. Or he's carrying her like a baby. A baby, yeah. Yeah.

But that's just me like, like instinct is- Wanting to believe it. Yeah, my instinct is to defend him, but I'm like, there's no reason for me to be doing that. You're part of the problem. I am the problem. It's me, hi. I'm the problem, it's me.

Someone else that I wanna defend is Teresa Giudice. So in this episode, Teresa gifts a blue label bottle to Joe, her brother, who she's not speaking to, because they do a housewarming party that she's also not invited to. But the whole drama is Rachel won't bring the gift to Melissa, but then Dolores brings it to Melissa. And like, do you think it's pettier for somebody to give a gift knowing that like, we're not talking, I'm not texting, I'm not calling, I'm not reaching out, but I want there to be a public presentation of this gift? Or is it tackier to not accept it,

because Joe in turn takes the card and throws it in the fire in front of everyone? If Teresa's trying to set up Joe, then Joe took the bait. You should be smarter than that. Open up the card, read it. Maybe it's something nice. If it's not, then you have ammunition, but why aren't you willing to at least read the card? Right, that's what I'm saying.

I feel like, I mean, their whole thing is them trying not to give Teresa and Louis any credit whatsoever. At the same time, I kind of feel like Teresa's a little bit pathological as well, and she's somebody who believes her side of the story, even if we're watching it, and that's not what happened. So it's like, I don't think it's coming from an altruistic place where it's like, oh, I want to give my brother a gift for his housewarming, but like, I'm so sad that I'm not invited

because you're not actually reaching out. You're doing it as a public display that like, I'm not the asshole, they're the assholes. So I don't know, I feel like it's a little tacky on both ends where I'm like, if you're doing it as a public display that like I'm not the asshole, they're the assholes. So I don't know I feel like it's a little tacky on both ends where I'm like if you're not gonna have a private conversation, still trying to find a way to grab screen time at somebody else's event, I don't know it comes off tacky to me. Is it more offensive to regift the bottle and give it away or to to throw away the card but open the gift and still get drunk? I don't know I feel like it's a little, I don't know. I have a weird take on like, regifting, I don't know.

I just feel like it's kind of weird to keep something that you don't want and being like, maybe at some point this will be good for somebody else. But it can get you into trouble because you could regift something, either forget and accidentally regift it back to the person who gave it to you. I would never forget, there's no way.

It's happened to some friends of mine before. What do you mean? Like they gave something that somebody gave them prior? No, they received a gift that they had gifted somebody else. Like that person. Like yeah, these are avoidable situations. Or like a friend of yours is like, oh, where'd you get that gift from? And then they'll say, oh yeah, this was from Sierra. And then, oh, funny. Cause I gave that to Sierra. I do think it's messier to burn the card, but maybe that was Teresa's angle because it's like you don't care you care about her present or taking the president But nothing that I had to say about it. Do you think Teresa set him up the more I think about it? I think so But also like it could be that could have been a good opportunity to like start mending those relationships

Yeah, what if the card said listen, I was wrong my fault. Yeah, right. I was wrong Yeah, what if the card said, listen, it's all my fault. Yeah, right. I was wrong. Could we please be brother and sister again? Probably not, but maybe it said that. But maybe. Yeah, you always have to open the card. I hope they actually opened it, read it,

and then sealed it back up and threw it out just for the cameras. I'm hoping Teresa says what was in the card. There's no way I wouldn't be curious to open the card. Now if Joe is real smart, he opens the card off camera, takes a picture of the card, especially if the card doesn't say nice things, takes the picture, seals it back up, throws it away,

gives the impression that he hasn't read it. Teresa then comes out at the reunion that's not gonna happen or on our Instagram Live or whatever and says, I can't believe he didn't read it. Teresa then comes out at the reunion that's not gonna happen or on her Instagram live or whatever and says, I can't believe you didn't open it. I wrote this such nice things. I was finally trying to mend fences. Joe's like, caught you in a lie.

Post the actual letter of all the nasty things she ended up saying. I could be in this family. You could, I mean, you're thinking the right way. I think in Jersey. Nick Judas. So Jackie calls Dolores a slob, and Dolores loses her mind over the word slob,

which I didn't really understand, because to me, being called a slob means my shirt's untuck. I don't understand. Messy. It just means messy, but it seems to be very triggering for Dolores. Are there words out there that are normally just benign to most people, but triggering for you? Like apparently for you guys,

bottom feet is an absolute no-go for you guys. Which I do not understand why, but like, I don't know. Actually Zach pointed out earlier that like, when you get older, being called the loser hits different than on the playground, which I actually think is a great point. Like if you're in your 30s and someone calls you a loser, like you're reflecting on your life.

You're just like, have I made it? The tough one. If you get called loser on a playground, like eh, whatever. But also if your mom calls you a slob, that's not the same thing as like a friend calling you a slob. Like for me, it's more personal to have a friend call me a slob.

Natalie has definitely called me a slob before. I was fine, I lived. But you're like related, or like not related. Oh, no you are related. But you guys are like together. They're married. So it's a familiar connection. So it should hurt less.

You are not related. Yeah, cause like if a mom called me a slob, it'd be like, okay I'm messy, versus if like a friend called me a slob, it's like. Coming for everything. Yeah, it's like why. Attacking your whole character. It was such a thing in middle school or high school,

it's like, oh, do you think she's, how do you think she looks or whatever? And being called cute was like the worst thing in the world. That's a hot take. Being called cute. Yeah, like, oh, she's cute. You're hearing that. Like passive.

Hate, hate. Well, cause that means, oh, I'm not gorgeous. I'm not stunning. I'm not hot. When I was in high school, you did not want our coach to call us punks. If he called you a punk, that was the worst. You were not going anywhere in life.

Anyways, think about it. We have a lot to talk about this Thursday. It's gonna be another episode of Reality Recap. Lots to get into, all your favorite pop culture topics. Gypsy Rose is making out with more women than men these days. So, yay for her. Brian Baumgartner is joining us for Reality Recap, along with Stevan from Perfect Match.

We're gonna see what's up with Brocode. See what's going on with him and the rest of the cast. And then next week, we're bringing back Going Deeper for Micah to talk about her time on Perfect Match. Did we think she... did she get cheated on? Let's discuss on Thursday. Does this count as cheating on reality TV? In the game? Hard to say. I don't know.

We'll see you on Thursday. Tell your friends about the show, rate, review, all that fun stuff. See you then. Bye.