The Viall Files - E766 Ask Nick - He’s Choosing His Family

Episode Date: June 24, 2024

Welcome back to another episode of The Viall Files: Ask Nick Edition! We start off the episode by responding to our previous Ask Nick’s comments. Then we get to our callers…  Our first caller is wondering if she should tell a coworker about his girlfriend’s affair. Our second caller feels like her boyfriend goes mute around her family. And, our third caller wants to move, but her boyfriend wants to stay close to his family.  “You’re literally talking to a version of your boyfriend right now” Start your 7 Day Free Trial of Viall Files + here: https://viallfiles.supportingcast.fm/  Please make sure to subscribe so you don’t miss an episode and as always send in your relationship questions to [e-mail] to be a part of our Monday episodes.  To Order Nick’s Book Go To: https://www.viallfiles.com  If you would like to get some texting advice, send an email to [e-mail] with “Texting Office Hours” in the subject line!  To advertise on the show, contact [e-mail] or visit https://www.advertisecast.com/TheViallFiles  THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS:  Atloids - Find Altoids In The Check-out Aisle! Grab Your Tin Today! Huggies - Learn More At https://www.Huggies.com  BetterHelp - Get it off your chest. Visit https://www.BetterHelp.com/VIALL today to get 10% off your first month. Ibotta - Use code VIALL when you register, and get $5 just for trying Ibotta. Go to the App Store or Google Play store and download the FREE Ibotta app to start earning cash. Helix Sleep - Helix is offering up to 30% off all mattress orders AND two free pillows for our listeners! Go to https://www.HelixSleep.com/Viall  Apostrophe Skincare - Get your first visit for only $5 at https://www.Apostrophe.com/VIALL when you use our code: VIALL. That’s a savings of $15!  Episode Socials: @viallfiles @nickviall @justinkaphillips @leahgsilberstein @dereklanerussell @kymccarthy23 @allisonklemes

If you are leading change, building a team, or implementing new procedures, Gonzaga University's Online Masters in Organizational Leadership gives you the tools for success. With concentrations in change, global, and servant leadership, you'll get the most relevant training and education to help you tackle any challenge. Visit gonzaga.edu slash leader and find out how Gonzaga's Organizational Leadership degree can affect positive change in your life and career. That's gonzaga.edu slash leader. Shop with Rakuten and you'll get it. What's it? It's the best deal, the highest cash back,

the most savings on your shopping. So join Rakuten and start getting cash back at Sephora, Old Navy, Expedia, and other stores you love. You can even stack sales on top of cash back. Just start your shopping with Rakuten to save money at over 750 stores. Join for free at rakuten.ca or get the Rakuten app. That's R-A-K-U-T-E-N. Today's episode is brought to you by Altoids

because let's face it, navigating the dating world isn't easy, but with Altoids, your breath will be stronger than the urge to text. You up? At 1 a.m. More intense than a rose ceremony and more reliable than your bestie's questionable dating tips. Like, do the simple things. Make sure that you have fresh breath

wherever you go, and you gotta do it with Altoids. Altoids is your sidekick in dating. Do yourself a favor and make sure that you have fresh breath. There is no bigger turnoff than stale, stinky, rotten breath. It's also so easy because I feel like with gum,

you always either hate, like a wrapper you gotta throw away, or you're like the gum gets nasty, and you're like, where can I throw this gum away? With an Altoid, it's just so easy to throw in your bag, so easy to just dissolve in your mouth, chew it up, fresh breath immediately. Immediately. Altoids is the strong, reliable, and intense boost

of freshness that young professionals and single minglers need to be their authentic selves in daily life. When walking into a high stakes moment, if you have Altoids, your breath is one less thing you have to think about. When it comes to needing confidence and security to show up as your original self, Altoids has you covered. They're not just mints they're curiously strong mints. Find Altoids in the checkout aisles. Grab your

tin today. There's a lot of decisions you have to make when you have a baby and the one that I feel the most comfortable and safe making is using Huggies for our daughter River. The new Huggies Skin Essentials are here. A brand new dermatologist approved line of diapers, wipes, and pull-ups training pants are all designed with baby sensitive skin and mugs. Their wipes have zero harsh ingredients for a great gentle clean. The Skin Essentials diapers features the Skin Protect liner which is what helps take care of the itch and stick that can cause rash. Their whole diaper helps protect against the top two causes

of rash by managing moisture and runny mess. Pull Up Skin Essentials has got your big kid covered too with a training pant that is ultra soft and breathable to help protect sensitive skin throughout potty training. Learn more at huggies.com. Once again, head to huggies.com to learn more. What's going on everybody? Welcome back to another episode of the Vile Files Ask Nick edition. I'm your host, Nick joined by the household.

We got Scooter, we got sweet boy Justin. We have a lot to get into. We got some great calls lined up for you. But before we do, we got some things to talk about. First of all, I am curious. I know we had a, I went on a whole like, I'm worried about men of the future and we were talking about dating and holding people accountable and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm curious what the feedback was on some of that.

Yeah, I mean, split once again, but definitely more skewed toward, well, women have been through this for centuries and centuries and centuries. So there was actually one comment that I pulled that I agree with. She said, women have been paying the price of men's actions since the beginning of time.

We've been told we are inferior to men our whole lives, but Nick is worried about young men hearing the truth about how men treat women. Maybe young men will actually learn and think, wow, I don't want to be like these awful men. It's funny how we're so worried about men, but never worried about how women are in danger every day and having our rights and autonomy taken away from us. Okay. That being said, there's also comments where people are like, I really agree a lot with what Nick is saying. I mean, I agree with both comments.

Yeah. You know, I guess it's just more that, which is kind of my point. It's like, can we recognize some, or maybe a lot of men's misbehavior towards women? Can we recognize the plight of women throughout history while still recognizing things that are going on in real time with a certain group of men? Does it have to be one or the other? Is it always like shut up and take your beating, which is like for myself, I'm good. I know I feel confident while how I behave. I hope that I can mentor, I guess any kind of men or young men that are interested in mentorship in terms of how I think they should conduct themselves and their character as someone who's now a father

of a daughter who I don't know what, you know, I don't know who she's gonna choose to date or what sexual her sexuality or sexual orientation. But if she grows's gonna choose to date or her sexual orientation, but if she grows up to want to date men, I have concerns for how they're being raised. I'm not saying we shouldn't educate young men about how they should treat women. I think I had great role models,

both for my mom and my dad, about how to treat women. I mean, specifically my mom and my dad about how to treat women. I mean, specifically my mom. My mom had dealt with a lot of past childhood trauma and experiences from then. And so I have vivid memories of growing up and my mom sitting me down and telling me point blank what her expectations of me were of how I should treat women in general, my sisters, all those things.

And so that's how I learned, right? I think we should and can continue to do that. I think there's a difference between doing that and it being a free-for-all online, bashing men in general and not discerning any difference between older men or men who do misbehave or some men not at all. I don't think it'syear-old boys are capable

of understanding who people are targeting and what they're talking about online. So when they hear how men just suck or they're terrible and it's all men, they're going to include themselves. And it has nothing to do with me saying that isn't dismissing what's happened or is happening with anyone who is being misbehaved or treated. And I guess that's the frustration I have is for all the comments on there who people immediately make accusations like, this sounds like you're just defending men and what about women and their plight, you know. I feel like we do a pretty good job in general on this show of recognizing the misbehaving

men out there. We have mostly women callers. We're very candid about what we think about some of these men, but I do think we can still, we can do both. I think we can do both. And I don't know why we are so resistant to that. And again, also recognize that everything I talk about on this show, all the lessons I talk about are through my lived experience.

And I am a man who's only dated women. And I think I love women in general. Now, if I were to have, I think some of the POV that some of our listeners have, I could be one of those guys who has a negative opinion about the people I've dated. If I wanted to, I could lump in all women, which I don't think would be fair or right to do. But my only experience of dating is from women, and I have been hurt by many of them. I've made choices and I've made mistakes and I've had to learn from those mistakes, but

there's also things that they did, and I think they could have done differently or better. And so I think there are a lot of men out there who also have been hurt by misbehaving women or women who didn't care about their feelings or had their own selfish needs in mind. It's not just one direction. And I think we have to remember that at times. I think if you're someone, unless you're bisexual and you have experience with dating both men and women, if you are out there and you're dating

and you've dealt with heartbreak or misfortune or people not protecting your heart, when you are incapable of setting your own boundaries, you're gonna have a strong opinion about that one gender. And I think, yeah, it'd be easy just to start hating them all, but where does that get us? And I guess that's kind of my point. And if you are a heterosexual woman who wants to date men,

don't you want good men to date? Don't you want quality men to date? Don't you want men who are capable of demonstrating healthy masculinity and healthy boundaries and have that respect for you and the people you will, you know. I think that recognizing that two things can be true at once is really important because like I'm having a boy. I'm going to raise a son and something that I want to instill in him is like this is something to recognize is that this is something that women have been receiving and still are receiving today. Like, you know, in the workplace, for example, I have been at jobs where I have had the exact same job as a man and I was paid less for it.

Like these are still things that are happening today that women, it's like all women, right? So it's not like, oh, just one woman wasn't such a good employee, but it's like all women are going to, you know what I mean? So it's like, when you say all women, like I don't like all women are gonna, you know what I mean? So it's like- What do you mean by, when you say all women, like I don't think all women- No, no, like in certain-

Like not here. The same way that you're, no, no, not here, but I'm saying like what you're explaining, how you've dated a lot of women and some of them have done wrong to you or right, you're not lumping all women together. Correct, yeah. But I think that throughout time and even now, a lot of people are still doing that

for women and for men. So I think it's important. I think it's easier to generalize. I think it's easy to victimize yourself and like have a lot like, you know, you could be someone who again, if you know, it's not like the the car we had last week, who wanted to slide into a DM and NHL player. This was someone who like at first it seemed like a call that was very much like, I just want to, you know, it was fun.

I want to slide into this DM as an NHL player. I don't care. And when it turned out to be a call of someone who was very open about like some of their past pain and trauma with their past relationships and their inability to not even enforce their boundaries, but set them to begin with, making themselves very vulnerable to repeating a pattern

that has really hurt them in the past. And so, and I had been that person, again, we've all been that person. I think a lot of people listen to this show because it's very, it's hard to do this stuff. I always say it's easy in theory, it's easy in theory, hard in practice. We're not talking about very complicated things,

but in the moment when we're triggered, when we're vulnerable, it's very hard to execute enforcing boundaries and things like that. So it's very easy to put ourselves in situations where we get very hurt. And so now we can have multiple experiences with say one gender and that, maybe we can have five different situations with men or women, depending on who we're dating, and allowing us to have a very negative opinion about that group of people. Yeah, I just think it's important to recognize, and when we're raising our kids,

and when we're, you know, having these conversations, is to instill in people that like, this is something that has happened over time, this is, you know, you can acknowledge the fact that women have been mistreated for many, many years by past generations of men and men today still, but that's not a reflection of who you are and all you can do is be better.

I think it's important to recognize your history. I really do, obviously, which I feel like we have, right? Like we've acknowledged, I think, no one here has debated this episode or the last week's episode when discussing this topic, that over the course of history, for a long time, up until very recently even, it's been very one-sided when it comes to the women have been treated by men

and vice versa, right? That's important to acknowledge. And we can always acknowledge that. But I think we need to be allowed to have these conversations sometimes. And I think especially now, we need to be able to have a conversation. If something is going on, that's happening, you know, like negatively, like what's going on right now, is that, you know, young men are committing suicide four times the rate of young women. That's a problem. And we should be able to talk about the why without the first response being, yeah, but like women had to endure X, Y, or Z. And do you know your history? Because again, history is important, but history also can be weaponized. And it can be weaponized when we use our history to basically devalue or dehumanize an entire group of people. You know, it's not okay what like a lot of men my age or older or throughout history

have done and how they've treated women. It's not okay. But it's not okay to dehumanize men in general and lump them all together as a group of people and talk about how bad they are, how much they suck. Because when we do that, like terrible things can happen. You start weaponizing history. An extreme example, we've talked about this, is anti-Semitism. You know, when people are anti-Semitic, they feel very justified in their points of view. To get an anti-Semitic person talking about Jewish people and they'll tell you all the reasons why they think they're justified to have a certain point of view when it comes to Jewish people. You know what they talk about? History. All the fucking time.

That doesn't make it okay. That's fucking crazy. When people are racist, the racist people feel validated with their points of view and their experiences of people of those races. Doesn't lump them all together. And just because some of us have had bad experiences with the other gender doesn't mean that all men are bad. And when we start saying things like all men are bad and all men suck, then we start diminishing their value as humans, literally. And that's very a dangerous precedent to set. And again, like bad things are currently happening right now to men, young men. Again, look at the suicide rate. And are we just gonna immediately dismiss it and scoff because

like it's been so bad for so long, you know, on the other side? Or can we still have a conversation about maybe the overcorrection that's happened and how it is affecting young men right now? Yeah, I think the scariest part of what you just said is that throughout history, we haven't been able to have these conversations that will fix the problems that we've had historically. It's just a matter of like sitting down with somebody sharing each other's perspectives and communicating appropriately. And we haven't been able to do that historically because we're not learning from our mistakes. Yeah because we're

never willing to have these nuanced conversations about you know it's always like yeah but you did this yeah but like what about like it's like wait okay fine let's talk about that but like like, there's no appetite for any conversation whatsoever currently right now that anything could be happening negatively towards men because of the history. I just don't understand. I don't think that's all, I don't think that's productive. And again, my biggest point has nothing to do, like, I'm not advocating this for me. I'm not complaining. I have a great life. I have no complaints about life for me. Or, you know, but I, again, I'm most concerned not about young men. I'm concerned for my daughter. I don't have a son yet. You know, I don't know if I ever will, but I do have a daughter. And there's

a decent chance she might grow up to want to date men. And I'm very concerned about her prospects. And for all the people out there would be like, well, I know a young man and he's fine. Okay, great. You know, but again, if you look at the stats, and if you look at our society as a whole, there is a growing epidemic of disenfranchised young men. And if we're so unwilling to have these conversations, then those disenfranchised young men, if you're an 18-year-old man or a young man and 20-year-old man, and you go and say, hey, you know, it's just like,

honestly, it just feels like I understand that I wanna be an ally and I recognize that men have had their time. I get that, but I'll be honest, I'm feeling a little like I'm just everywhere I go. I'm always kind of told to shut up or sit down and you don't know what you're talking about. And then let's say they're going to someone, you know, I don't know, a friend or girlfriend or, you know, anyone and they are again, you know what, fuck you. You know, it's not your time. You know who they turn to?

Your Andrew Tates. That's how people get radicalized because no one listens to them. They're told that their opinions don't matter. Yeah. So like, do we want the young men of this generation to be listening to us? People who care about positive masculinity,

do you want them to listen to, you know, instead of telling, instead of saying all men suck, which they don't, like be someone who's willing to have a conversation with more men, more young men about how to behave properly. Because if they don't think you'll listen, if they don't think you're willing to have a conversation, if they don't think you're willing to hear them out, they're gonna find someone who will. And there's a lot of radical, toxic, bad men out there who are willing to take those disenfranchised men in and make them even more radical and more toxic

and have more negative opinions towards women than they already do. Which is like a scarier level to it. Correct. I don't know if this has, I mean, this is just makes me think of back when my dad passed away, I had very little patience for anybody

who would complain to me about anything, like after that happened. Because I was like, are you kidding me? Like, that's nothing. Like after what I just experienced, like I just had, and it was a subconscious thing. Like I wasn't trying to be rude. I just like, and I wasn't being outwardly rude.

It was just, I was finding it very difficult to empathize with people about their problems because I was just like, you've got to be fucking kidding me. Like you don't even know. It's just so important to keep in mind that like everybody is going through something. And the only way that we're ever gonna grow as a society is to listen to other people

and to empathize with other people and to have discussions and be open to listen to other people and to empathize with other people and to have discussions and be open to hearing what other people have to say. Totally. And I'm sure if you're listening to this and you're a woman who's like on their sixth fuckboy and you've been cheated on three guys or maybe your partner has been emotionally abusive or physically abusive, I can appreciate what that me, you know, saying, hey, like I'm worried about some guys out there, might be a little frustrating when you first hear it, but like, it's not necessarily just about you or anyone, but the facts are, whether you want to believe it or not, there's something bad going on with young men right now. And unless we do something about it and we're willing

to have those conversations and we're willing to consider that me, us as a whole, as a society, we can stop having conversations where it's just like shut up, sit down, it's not your time, it's payback time. How can we be more inclusive? How can we be more understanding for everyone, including the straight white men out there, you know? And just have, and have our goal to not try to minimize anyone. Because life is never going to be fair for any of us. Yeah, it should never be about revenge. It should never be about like, well, it happened to me, so it has to happen to you. Like, the only way we're gonna progress is if everybody is just okay with, okay, it sucks that this happened and is still happening,

but this is a separate issue. Yeah, yeah. Two things can be true at the same time. And we have to be willing to have these conversations. And if your answer to everything is always bringing up a history lesson because you don't wanna have a conversation about what's going on now,

then I just don't think we're gonna get very far as a society. Yeah, it's a matter of how you use the history. You have to use it to learn from it rather than to use it as like, well. And when you say things like all of anything, like that's, it is, it's sexist. I'm sorry, it just is.

We shouldn't be allowed to lump any group of people all into one and like, make sweeping judgments about their character, who they are, how they act. We shouldn't be doing that about any group of people, whether they are historically disenfranchised or historically have been in advantageous positions because things can flip on their head over the over the course of time. May not happen in one year or two years or five years but a hundred years.

Yeah. Yeah. Generalizations are harmful. Yeah. 100%. Society in general has spoken in generalizations. Yes. And that's resulting in like men who radicalize and then women who are fear like fear the men that are radicalizing but also like the need to speak up for women, vice versa. So like, it's a fault of the conversation. Yeah, well, we're at least trying to have it. So thank you for engaging with us, whether you agree or disagree, we appreciate all comments

and hopefully we can continue these productive conversations. I do think they're important and I think they're enlightening. I hope we all, I hope we all at least appreciate having the conversation. I posed the question, we don't have to spend too much time on it because I know we have to get to our callers,

but I was thinking the other night about, listen, we've all been through our shit, everything's relative, but I've had some hard times relationships. I've had some moments where I felt like I don't know how I'm gonna get through this, I don't know how I'm gonna survive this, I've had some really dark thoughts about, you know, how I felt my heart was treated or, you know, and yada yada yada. And I've also like, whether

it's through athletics or being on special forces, I've realized that I have an ability to deal with discomfort. Like I have a high tolerance for discomfort, both emotional pain and physical pain. So I was wondering myself if there was a correlation. I posed that question to my Instagram audience. The feedback was interesting. We did get a lot of DMs from people identifying as like professionals in like neuro psychology or I didn't fact check that, but a lot of the people

who did claim to be in that field did suggest that there have studies been, studies have been done saying that there is a correlation between both physical and emotional pain. A lot of people were like, what do you mean by emotional pain? How do you define that? I guess I would, you know, emotional pain,

like heartbreak, right? A heartbreak would be a great example of emotional pain. And emotional pain tolerance, I think other people wanted to define that. I guess I would, you know, emotional pain like heartbreak, right? Heartbreak would be a great example of emotional pain and emotional pain tolerance. Other people wanted to define that. To me, emotional pain tolerance would be like anything. Like how do you respond to that pain? You know, there's a difference between feeling that pain and then sinking into like a deep depression and having very destructive negative thoughts. One, you know, could be as extreme as, you know, some people experience severe emotional pain

and take their own life. That's a very extreme and unfortunate reality of emotional pain that people with physical pain have taken their own life, right? You know, some people might sink into a depression. Some people more like less severe, but more common would be just kind of like not being able to get over something because, you know,

we're letting our egos trigger us and we kind of sit in that pain because that pain is the only thing we have of these relationships, you know, and then physical pain, you know, but like emotional. And then, then I had the thought of, can you get better at pain talents? I suppose you can, right? The more pain you like it's sitting techniques. Yeah, there are like breathing techniques.

Like taking ice plunge for the first time. Ouch, painful. 10 seconds, you're out. Do that five days in a row, your tolerance goes up. Same thing like with emotional pain, you can learn that skill. You can experience heartbreak multiple times, get different perspective.

Therapy is a great way of building the toolkit to deal with emotional pain. This is all kind of fascinating, but to think that there is a correlation. I'm just always back to, again, there's two ways of looking at life. You can be a victim of a situation, you know, and you can be a victim and still, again, it's not about taking the blame. It's about you can be a victim and still learn from a situation. That's how I've gone about life. I'm just I'm a big believer and regardless of how people have treated me that my energy which isn't unlimited is far more productive focusing that energy on the things I can learn and change because I

could spend an infinite amount of time wondering about why, you know, we had a caller earlier today that was like, why do all men do this? And I was like, I don't know, I can't speak for all men, you know, but why do you do the things that you were doing to cause this situation? Again, that's not alleviating the men that she's frustrating with. It's just more like, hey, you only have $5 to spend. Do you wanna spend it on figuring out what you could do differently

and almost certainly get some kind of answer and some kind of plan? Or do you wanna like get, you know, or do you wanna spend five of those dollars like not getting any answers or maybe getting 50 different answers that may or may not apply to the person you were referring to? And I just find it, for myself, it's been a lot more productive thinking about how I can spend my

energy and then trying to build my tolerance up for any type of pain that I'm going to endure. Because what I've learned about life is that pain is inevitable, both physical and emotional. And either you're going to survive it or you're not. And your quality of life will be a determination of your ability to do either. Yeah, the only thing you can, and there's a lot, there's so much in life that's out of our control and so much going on around us that we have literally no say in.

The only thing that we can do is control what we do and how we react. And sometimes you get into a car accident, that is out of your control. And the physical pain that you're gonna be in, the emotional pain that that's gonna cause is out of your control, but all you can do is seek therapy

if you need to afterwards, take care of your wounds. Yeah, some people have been in very tragic car accidents, lost the ability to walk and became Olympic athletes. Yeah. Yeah, it's how do we respond to adversity? Yeah, how do you use your pain to benefit you? Anyways, thanks for listening and allowing us to have these conversations.

We enjoy having them. Hopefully you enjoy being a part of them. We got some great calls lined up for you, But before we do, don't forget to send in those questions at asknickofthevilefiles.com. For all things Ask Nick, texting office hours, you know the drill. We appreciate you listening. As always, we'll be back this week. We have a great week lined up for you. Tomorrow on Reality Recap, Camilla Luddington. You probably know her as Jo Wilson on Grey's Anatomy. She's also a huge reality fan. We'll have her on Reality Recap talking about the Perfect Match finale and so, so much more. A lot of obviously Bravo

drama on Fallout. We obviously have a lot to get into and so please join us. Also this week on Going Deeper we have Micah from Perfect Match to talk a lot about her relationship with Kaz, all the drama that happened, a fascinating conversation with Micah. Be sure to tune in. Join the fun. Let's get to our callers.

What's your time with me? Let's ask Nick your sexy questions. How's it going? Going good. My name is Gabby and I'm 23 and I'm wondering if I should confront my coworker about her affair with another coworker. Okay. What kind of job is this?

Is this like a career or is this like a job? This is just a job. It's retail so I'm sure you could ascertain that there's often a lot of drama that goes around in that. Yeah. This isn't like a dream job. You're not really worried about the job per se or your reputation. Yeah, I mean, I could potentially grow in this job, but it's not, I guess, my top priority in the long run. Okay. Is this a co-worker or is this a friend or both? I think she's trying to be a friend, but I'm also a little skeptical about it. So I guess I'll start with like me and this girl, we've always been friendly with each other. But

as long as I've worked there, our conversations have been limited to just surface level interactions. But as of a couple of months ago, she's been confiding in me more about her situation. And yeah, that's where we're at. And what's her situation? Well, initially from what she's told me, because I've heard about this affair from other people, other sources. But as far as what she has shared with me, it's been as of a couple months ago, she came to me and many other people about her unhappiness in her

current relationship. She's been in it for four years. And she's lived with him for a majority of it in his house with his parents. She initially was coming to me just expressing how unbearable it is to live there. And obviously, like the first solution we came up with was for her to move out and move back in with her dad. And as she was telling me that, then she started unpacking how unhappy she is just in her relationship in general, and how her boyfriend takes her for granted and they haven't connected in a while. And so her first step was to just tell them that she was moving out, and she did, but they didn't really talk about their relationship at all.

So then her priority was to just move out. So I asked her if she intended on breaking up with him anytime soon, and she said, not until I move all of my stuff out, because I worry that it'll create a toxic situation with his mom while she's moving her stuff out. What was the thing'll create like a toxic situation with his mom while she's moving her stuff out. What was the thing she was waiting on telling him?

Yeah, to end the relationship. And it seemed like their communication as far as like in the context of the relationship and if they had problems was very minimal at this point, it seemed like they had both given up on that, but she was kind of placing that responsibility on him. And I tried to explain to her that in a relationship, like you both have to bring that effort in, in order for it to work. As all of this is transpiring, I then hear from somebody else that she's now seeing somebody in our workplace. And I guess for the context of that, so as of like earlier

this year, she's been in a group chat with my boyfriend and other people from his department. One of those people includes the guy that she ends up having this affair with. As they're like in this group chat, he developed a big crush on her and it reached a point where he was making inappropriate comments to her in the group chat and then telling other people about his crush on her. And it just reached a point where my boyfriend pulled her aside and asked her if she was okay, if she was comfortable because if she wasn't, then he was going to do something about it. And she said she would handle it. And so she said that she had a conversation with him and basically said like, hey, I have a boyfriend. And even if I didn't, like you're younger than me. And like, I wouldn't go for you anyways. And so she cut off communication

with him individually, but she remained in that group chat. And then they all had a group outing together where this guy dropped a bunch of them off at the venue and then was going to drive them all home, including her. And she was the last one that he dropped off. And that's when the affair started. How do you know that? So how I'm hearing all of this is the guy that she's hooking up with is telling my boyfriend all of the details about it. And so that night specifically, she had messaged him after he dropped her off. And she said, if you had tried to kiss me tonight, I would have let you. And so the flirtation just progressed from there

and then it led into physical things and all of this is happening. Like she's still talking to me about her boyfriend and I'm trying to clarify, like so are you aiming to work through this or are you just waiting till the situation is comfortable for you to break up with him? And then that's when she told me like, Oh, well, I am going to

his lake house this weekend. So we're going to try and rekindle our, our relationship all the while. Like I found out like the day before she hooked up with this guy. Gotcha. And you kept your mouth shut. And that's what you're trying to decide whether you should continue to keep your mouth shut. Yeah. Cause I guess the only reason I would keep my mouth shut is just to maintain my boyfriend's relationship with his coworkers. Cause obviously I heard about it from him. And so it's an easy chain of people to track down. What does your boyfriend think? My boyfriend disapproves of the whole thing.

And honestly, every time the guy talks to him about it, he calls him out on it and says, so you guys are just cheating them. And you're telling me all of this when it's inappropriate that you're telling me this. This kid, he's not even a man to me really. He thinks that he loves this girl, but while he says that he loves her, he's not even a man to me really, like he thinks that he loves this girl. But while he says that he loves her, he's also like without her consent, going into these very intimate details about like their sex life. So that's why like I am debating whether or not to tell her, because I am like disgusted by her behavior, honestly. But like I also, like as a person, like I acknowledge that it's fucked up

that like she is involving herself with somebody that just like doesn't respect her. But then again, she clearly doesn't respect herself either. So it's just this back and forth thing in my head. Okay. I mean, I guess, listen, you know, a lot of times when people call it with similar type of stories,

most of it's often like you would be the one who found out the guy you're hooking up with has a wife or a girlfriend. And it's like, do I tell the wife or the girlfriend? And usually the answer is kind of like, honestly, you should just remove yourself from the situation now that you know, and she's not going to thank you. You're just going to be the enemy type of thing. This is slightly obviously different. Part of me is just like, listen,

as long as you have your boyfriend's permission, it seems like you both have a strong POV on his conduct, and you guys are interacting with these people. Prior to understanding that she was behaving like this, she came to you as a friend to talk about her original relationship and the problems that she was having. So she was just like, hey, you're someone I want to confide in and I want to share things with you. And she's hoping and I guess expecting some kind of

like counsel or advice or just like support, yada, yada, yada. So in that vein, she has like kind of opened the door for you to communicate to her how you feel about what's going on or her behavior. She asks your advice, it sounds like at times, right? And also you don't have to bring up, I mean, yeah, people might figure it out, you know what I'm saying? But that's really not the point. But you don't have to say, well, I heard from so-and-so, my boyfriend told me who, and he's,

you don't have to get into how you heard. You know it's true. You know what I'm saying? And like, you don't have, this isn't about confronting her to get her to admit it and call her out because well, just so-and-so's talking about you. Like, I don't, you know, I'm assuming that's not what you're doing, why you would do it. If you were to say something, it would be based off

the premise that like, this person started a relationship with you based off the idea that she wanted to make good decisions. You know like hey I'm struggling in my current relationship, I live with my boyfriend and his mom or parents or whatever and that sucks, it's not a healthy environment, do you have advice for me? Oh by the way I'm not really happy in this current relationship, do you have any advice for me, what should I do? You know then you like checked in, are you breaking up and then she's like well actually we're gonna try to reconnect and I'm going to his lake house

and she's sharing so much about our information. Again, you've become this confidence. So you could go up to her and be like, hey, listen, like I've been made aware of the fact that you are hooking up with so-and-so. Like it's honestly like none, really none of my business. I don't approve of this behavior. But as someone who like, listen, you, you, you have a boyfriend and you've

come to me for advice and it's just like, I just don't think what you're doing. It was okay. You should end your relationship and like, listen, you know, it's like, don't make her feel judged or shamed. I mean, clearly judging her, but I guess you could say it's just like, I just don't, I want to give you the benefit of doubt. I know you're struggling. I know this is hard, but like, you know, figure your shit out.

She's being messy by obviously doing this with people you know and like bringing the drama into work and things like that. So I think you kind of just like, hey, listen, I heard this is happening. I really don't want to be a part of it. I don't approve of it. I think you need to end to your relationship.

But at the end of the day, if you're going to choose to continue this, like I think I just need to distance myself. Right. Yeah. I know. Honestly, that's kind of where I was leaning of like, this whole situation just seems messy and draining. Because I think where I came to this internal debate is just,

it's like I think I was getting personally triggered by the situation in general to where I felt I needed to do something about it. And I think it's best for me to just distance myself because to some degree, I also feel like, yeah, she was confiding in me, but she was also confiding in like many other people. So they also have the opportunity to tell her the truth because it is starting to get around to these other people she was confiding in. Yeah, I guess it just comes down to what's your intention. You know, why do you wanna do it?

If you wanna do it because you wanna call her out or involve yourself in drama, then maybe don't do it. If you're just like, hey, listen, she's confiding in me and I feel strongly about her behavior and I don't like that she's doing it and I'd like to think that she's confided in me and like, it's just, I don't, I feel strongly about her behavior and I don't like that she's doing it. I'd like to think that she's just making a mistake that she's not fully realizing the gravity of it, you know? And if it's coming from a place of like, just, hey, listen,

like, why are you doing this? You know, like, I think you should stop or you should reevaluate, you know, your decisions, but like, it's gonna affect you. And come from a place of trying to offer her some advice and be a friend and guidance and see if she's receptive to it, but you can say it, it's just listen, or maybe you wait for the next time she says something

to you, it's just like listen, it's none of my business, but I just know this is going on and I just don't appreciate people that's lying to my face and I'm happy to be a friend to you, but friendship goes both ways. So you're not being upfront with me. I don't know how you wanna say it, but it just comes down to what is your intention

of bringing it up? If you're doing it to be dramatic or just involve yourself in drama or share your opinion or just judge her, maybe it's not productive. If you think that you can, it's worth at least you saying something, so maybe you could be a wake up call

to her, you know, because now she's developing a reputation, you know, amongst the people she works with, and that's not good for her. And I don't know why she's doing what she's doing, but she'll probably eventually regret it. Yeah, no, she, I would hope so. It just seems all unnecessary. I mean, cheating in general is unnecessary,

but in her situation specifically, her relationship is already on the outs. She's fully moved out of the house with her boyfriend. So like she's removed herself physically from the situation. Yeah, she dislikes the attention from this younger guy. She probably doesn't take him all that seriously, you know? Yeah, so I think I will just wait and see if she talks to me again,

because I also kind of have noticed that she's been a bit more quiet at work. So I think she's trying to isolate herself and allow herself to just be in this bubble where she's not doing anything wrong, where there's no opportunity for somebody to tell her what she's doing is wrong. In which case, then, yeah, it's easier for me

to just distance myself completely, because the only reason why I don't wanna say anything is because I don't want to be involved in the blowback of it. Yeah, I mean, listen, yeah. I think just removing yourself from the situation is a totally valid option. And like I said before, it just comes down to if you're doing it because you think you can be helpful,

not sure how she's going to receive it, but if it's coming from a place of you really are trying to help. Listen, she's making a mistake. She is in need. This is a self-destructive behavior that she is demonstrating, but at the same time, it's not your problem. So you just have to decide if you want to be a friend to her. And not only me, but just like, you could be a friend or a stranger. I guess what I'm saying is this, because some people might just, some people who know might already be like,

you know, oh, what a bitch, or she's so dirty, or what a slut, or start calling her names in her head, or she's bad news, and she's of this, and she's so dirty or what a slut or you know start you know calling her names in her head and like oh she's bad news and she's of this and she's that and like again want to be part of the drama they just want to talk shit about her and i know what you did and they want to shame her and like make themselves feel better by putting her down like that's not going to be do any good but at the same time like again this is a self-destructive behavior i don't know if this person how her overall character is, if she's kind of going through a personal crisis.

All I could say is this, sometimes people in her position can use the type of friend that says, Hey, what are you doing? Why are you doing this? Like you're better than this. Like why, you know, make different decisions. Like, and at least, you know, not everyone responds the way they want, but sometimes there are people who, who do respond and they need that wake up call. They need the friend that kind of metaphorically grabs them by the

shoulders and shakes them a little bit and be like, what are you doing? And sometimes these things start by like just a little, a flirtation here and, you know, it turns into a kiss and just, you know, and it's, it goes down a rabbit hole, you know? So if you're doing it for good, maybe give it a shot. But it just kind of comes down to inside, why would you be doing it? If you do say something, you have to kind of say it

and then walk away. You know, I'm gonna, I just, I heard about- I gotta go back to work. Well, yeah, it's just like, listen, you've come to me, I've gotten to know you, I really have enjoyed getting to know you, but I've been made aware of this, and honestly, like, this is really hard to hear. I'm not sure why you're doing this.

You mentioned that your relationship was ending anyways, but this isn't the behavior of the person I've gotten to know. And you're making decisions that are hurting people. I don't even know your boyfriend, but this isn't the type of behavior I thought you were capable of. So if you wanna talk about it, I'm here.

I don't wanna judge you, but I'm not here to judge you, but if you wanna talk about what's talk about it, I'm here, you know, I don't want to judge you, but like, you know, I'm not here to judge you, but if you want to talk about what's going on here, I'm here to help. But at the same time, I also don't want to surround myself with someone who's going to continue this type of behavior. So I just want to, you know, be upfront. But, you know, we all make mistakes and, you know, if you need a friend, we can talk. And if you're willing to be the friend that gives her, like like tough love and is still willing to listen but while Still holding her accountable for actions then you can do that So yeah, it really just comes down to what are your intentions for doing it if you're trying to be the morality

Please and come from a play a judgment Just move on if you think that you could offer some help to someone who's struggling with some personal choices and and making self-destructive choices and be a Potential like wake-up call to say hey, you know, what are you doing and and hopes to get through to her then give it a shot Yeah cuz if I were to talk to her like I would want to reassure that like if she's Ready to confront what she's doing and like fully reflect on that that it will get better Yeah, and that she can use this as a learning opportunity for future relationships that she can effectively build. Because yeah,

it's important to understand like why you're doing what you're doing and like why you felt like you, instead of just respecting your four-year relationship, you went this other route that did not serve you at all. Yeah, I mean, forget about her relationship she's not respecting. She's not respecting herself, you know. This relationship is clearly over. She's mentally kind of checked out. She just doesn't have the guts to end the relationship. Why? I don't know. She's not going to end up hanging out with this younger guy and most likely just hanging out with her boyfriend, but now she's going to have to face the fact that she either have to admit that she has been

unfaithful or every relationship she goes in,'s gonna lie to her next partner about the fact that she was unfaithful You know and then that's now she's starting relationships off on a lie or you know It's just why is she doing this? Maybe this is a behavior that she hasn't really dealt with in the past that she'll only continue so To that end like maybe this could be a wake-up call All right? Yep. Well, keep us posted.

Love to know what you to end up deciding. Okay. Honestly, I think I'll just stay out of it. But if the opportunity presents itself and I can be honest with her and just provide her some advice and help, then I will. But if not, I'm not gonna lose sleep over it.

Okay. Maybe your boyfriend can say something too. Yeah, I guess he could say something to her, but I think he talks more with the guy than with her since they work in the same department. Fair enough. Okay, all right, well take care. All right. Yeah, take care, bye.

All right, bye-bye. This episode is brought to you by BetterHelp. We all carry around different stressors. That's right, big or small, when we keep them bottled up, it can start affecting us negatively. That's why therapy is a safe space to get things off your chest and to figure out how to work through whatever's weighing you down. Therapy has been a huge part of my and Natalie's life and relationship, and thank God we've been able to just, you know, listen, when you get triggered, it's better to just vent with your therapist rather than venting out to the world. Even that is just a huge benefit. If you're thinking of starting therapy,

give BetterHelp a try. It's entirely online, designed to be convenient, flexible, and suitable for your schedule. Just fill out a brief questionnaire to get matched with a licensed therapist and switch therapists anytime for no additional charges, because we know how important it is to match with the therapist that you feel comfortable with.

Get it off your chest with BetterHelp. Visit BetterHelp.com slash V-I-A-L-L today to get 10% off your first month that's BetterHelp. H-E-L-P dot com slash V-I-A-L-L. Spring has sprung and that means spring cleaning. Whether that means stocking up on cleaning supplies or swapping out your winter clothes for new spring clothes. Make sure you're using iBotta and getting real cash back

with every single purchase. iBotta is a free app that gives you the most cash back every time you shop on hundreds of items from groceries to beauty supplies to toys. So you can make sure you're beating inflation no matter what you're purchasing. The average iBotta user earns $256 a year.

That could cover the cost of an entire shopping trip. That flight you've always been eyeing or the fancy dinner you have been craving. Other apps give you points that don't amount to much. With Ibotta, just add up your offers in the app, upload your receipt, and get real cash that you can cash out to your bank, PayPal, or gift cards. Join the over 50 million users and earn cash back

every time you shop from over 2,700 brands and retailers, including all your favorite grocery stores, Lowe's, Macy's, Sephora, Best Buy, and so much more. Right now, Ibotta is offering our listeners $5 just for trying Ibotta by using code VIALL. When you register, just go to the App Store or Google Play Store to download for free. Download the free Ibotta app and start earning cash back and using code VIALL. That is Ibotta, I-B-O-T-T-A, in the Google Play or App Store and use code V-I-A-L-L. Just go to Ibotta in the Google Play or App Store

and use code V-I-A-L-L. How's it going? Hi, I'm Francesca. I'm 23 years old. How can I help you Francesca? So my boyfriend goes mute around my family and friends and I was just looking for some advice. How long have you been dating this guy?

We made it official in December, but we started seeing each other in October, so it hasn't been that long. Okay. But I guess just sorting out if he even recognizes, I guess, also if he's mute. I also haven't brought this up to him because I kind of wanted him to fix the behavior on his own, which I know I should probably vocalizeize like my wants and needs or like things like that But I just kind of want to see if he would if it's his personality or if he would like get me to like warm Up like I didn't want to bring it up because I didn't want to draw attention and then you know I mean kind of yes is your you know if your boyfriend's more introverted or extroverted

I would say he's more introverted, but I guess I can give you some examples too or like some background story So I have a big family and my sister is engaged. I met my boyfriend at her engagement party. So he actually lived in college with my sister's fiance. So it's not like when he's around my family, like he's pretty good friends with like my sister and my sister's boyfriend, you know, like it's not like he doesn't know anybody there.

And so like some examples, like we had like holidays together and stuff. And he literally my mom know, like, it's not like he doesn't know anybody there. And so like some examples, like we have like holidays together and stuff. And he literally my mom after was like, I don't even know what his voice sounds like, because he only said maybe like, hello and goodbye and like maybe one sentence in between. I guess I just think it's odd that like, he is so quiet, like around his friends too, like my sister and like her fiance, like are actually friends with him. I was introduced through him. And then I guess another example too is like I'm in school right now and I was driving home from school and I was on the phone or driving to his apartment from school and I

was on the phone with my friend and we were chatting and then he hopped in the car and I was like, oh like blah, blah, blah. Like he's in the car too, just so you know. I was like, say hi, because like he wasn't saying anything. And then he finally said hi. And then my friend is very chatty. So she was like talking away and he like wasn't saying anything. I kept like making prompts for him to say or jump in the conversation. Then at one point she said something to him and then he joked around and said, Oh, like you have 30 seconds left, like talking to me, which I think could be funny. But like, in order to say that line, I feel like you kind of have to have some like repertoire during the conversation, you know, like being like joking

and then say like, Oh, just saying I have 30 seconds, like, you know, whatever. So basically, and then Oh, last example I'm going to give to. So there was another event that I couldn't go to because I had a lot of exams coming up. I had to study the rest of my family was there and he was there and he like, they were table sittings and he sat at my family's table and there's like an empty seat next to me because I couldn't go. And he told me that he sat with my family instead of his friends. And I was like, oh, like that's sad you couldn't sit with your friends because I kind of want to see what he was going to say. And he was like, oh no, like I really enjoyed like getting to talk to them.

Like I was happy to sit next to them. But then I talked to my brother and my brother was like, he is so quiet. Like we sat in silence. Like he would not, like he barely would like respond to the things I said. But at the same time, I feel like from his point of view, he thought he was like kind of bonding. And like we were walking down the street by his apartment,

we were passing like a restaurant. He was like, oh, your brother said, like this restaurant serves really good, like whatever. Like we should go there. So like, it sounds like he got so much, like from his perspective, I thought they had like this like great big conversation, but then from like my family's perspective,

like they barely talk. Is your family very close, very loud and chatty? My family, we're all like, we're Italian, we're very Italian. I feel like we're kind of loud and- Is your boyfriend Italian? No, he's not. I think you're dating an introvert

and I think you're dating someone who just has a different personality than what your family is used to. I'm guessing you probably have family members that are introverted, but introverts or people who have introverted qualities, yeah, they're a slow burn. It takes them a while to warm up to people. They're also not big on small talk. The way you describe your boyfriend, you kind of sometimes describe me. Like, you know, when I get introduced to like situations

where it's just a bunch of new people, I'm not gonna be the person who's like working in the room and just like, hey, I'm Nick, like, you know, and making small talk and you know, you're not gonna bring me to a party with a bunch of strangers and then have a bunch of be like, yeah, I had this great conversation with Nick and we were just talking about these random things. It's just like, I don't really open up to a bunch of be like, yeah, I had this great conversation with Nick and we were just talking about these random things.

It's just like, I don't really open up to a bunch of strangers normally. I can be real fucking quiet, you know? And I am also comfortable with sitting in silence. Some people are and some people aren't. Sometimes sitting in silence makes people feel uncomfortable. Actually, it makes a lot of people feel uncomfortable. It doesn't make your boyfriend feel uncomfortable.

He's very comfortable with it, which is why you can fear the disconnect between his interpretation of a conversation and your brother's. My guessing, your brother is probably very much used to your family and how they all interact, and everyone's just very friendly and open and talkative and your boyfriend's is not that. I just feel like also though, the layer of like don't you think because he's good friends, like he's known them for like years, even if my sister and her fiance are in the same room,

like he still like doesn't even talk to them. Maybe doesn't have anything to talk to them about. I feel like if I go somewhere, I wanna like make a good impression, I wanna like introduce myself, like have something like a leaving like a lasting impression kind of, and I feel like he's okay with just like.

Not. Not doing that, yeah. Yeah, I mean. I guess that's just it's. It's kind of and I feel like he's okay with just like not not doing that yeah yeah I mean I guess that's just it's it's kind of who he is also I guess another added layer too is my dad is very very quiet in social settings and like he does not talk like my mom is very talkative and that's something that I don't really I guess like value like I am not like my parents relationship isn't like the best relationship. So like I wouldn't personally, like I associate obviously not every quiet person with my father, but like I associate some tenants.

Like I just like a big fear of mine is finding someone similar to my dad. And I feel like, like I know it's a struggle for my mom to like go to social sec. Okay, in what ways? Like his quietness specifically? One of the things is his quietness. Like I know my mom mom struggles going out to dinner with friends and stuff, with couples, because he's just going to be so quiet and kind of awkward to talk to and not be able to hold a conversation.

Or you'll always have to ask him questions about work or something like that, something to get him talking rather than a reciprocal conversation. So I guess that's another reservation. Yeah, it sounds like you are dating your dad. So you don't think it's just something where it warms up. You just think it's from the... If your boyfriend's anything like me, or if he's just like what I'm hearing from you, this won't be the last time your boyfriend gets this kind of feedback. You know what I'm saying? How much he cares or doesn't care about this feedback, I don't know. I'm sure it won't be the first time he hears this feedback if you bring it up to him.

Now, how you bring it up to him matters greatly. If you say things like, you never talk when you're around people. You know, like why, what's wrong with you? You know, like, if you talk to him like that, he'll probably get defensive. He just has a different personality. You know what I'm saying?

Your dad and your boyfriend, they're just quiet people. They're more introverted. They're not down... Like small talk is not their thing. They don't need to talk about the fucking weather for the sake of talking about the weather. Again, they're comfortable with sitting in silence. On some level, that is never going to change. Now, depending on... I don't know what your dad does for a living or whatever, but depending on who, what type of job your boyfriend wants, or like, using myself as an example, I've had to work on this, you know what I'm saying?

I've had to take feedback, I've had to become more aware of my surroundings, and I guess when I need to give a shit, I can turn it on, but I have to turn it on. Sometimes, for the sake of Natalie, I need to turn it on. Sometimes, you know, like, but what, you know, when Natalie introduced me to her family, no one was like, wow, that Nick, what a dynamic chatty Cathy.

You know, boy, he's a really, a real charmer. No, I had to like meet him four or five times before I was even comfortable like being myself. For the most part, I just kind of sat in a corner. I chilled, I was there to support Natalie. I did my thing. But I guess also like after one of these instances happened, I went over to his apartment. We went upstairs and his roommate was there and I was kind of like frustrated. So I was just like on my phone like texting people and he was like, why are you so quiet? Like why aren't you talking? But like that was just kind of, I guess, because you're never quiet. It's like,

again, you're, you know, it's like, you're not the quiet person. But he was. It's not a con, it's. But he was so chat. Sure. He was so chatty with like his roommate, you know what I mean?

He's comfortable with his roommate. I can be, I literally talk for a living, you know? Depending on the environment, I won't shut the fuck up. I'll talk forever. I'll interrupt people. If I got something to say, believe me, I'll say it. But it's the small talk. Your boyfriend isn't into small talk, you know?

And your boyfriend's comfortable with his roommate. I don't know what he was talking about, but I bet it was something he was passionate about, something he was invested in, something him and his roommate had a similar common interest. I don't know, maybe it was fantasy football, maybe it was their TV show. I don't know. Maybe he's just not your guy, you know? You clearly have a strong opinion about your dad's personality and your mom's struggle

and sounds like you're more like your mom than you are like your dad. And if he's not the person you wanna be with, then maybe he's just not your guy, you're not compatible. But if you decide that you wanna be with this guy, if everything else is great, he treats you well, he makes you feel good and you're attracted to him, you like the sex, you like how motivated he is

in his career, but at the end of the day what it just bugs you that he's quiet and he's just not super he's not the most charming guy around your family. I promise you eventually he'll get to know a couple family members if there's anyone there where a topic or someone shares a similar interest eventually he'll open up and and and start chatting with someone but it won't be until he finds something that he's really passionate and something he wants to talk about. That's fair, but I just feel like- I'm just saying, you're never gonna invite him over

to your family lunch, your Sunday lunch or whatever, where it's a bunch of family members and your aunts and your uncles and your cousins and their nieces and nephews come in. He's just never gonna start a conversation with two of them about whatever. Yeah, and I feel like that's okay, like not like approaching someone like really far removed, but I feel like that he's met them a few times, same with my friends.

What's a few times? He's just, I would say like 10. Okay. Listen, you have the right as his girlfriend to say, hey, listen, I know, I know you're a quiet guy and listen, you're more introverted. I love that about you. Like, I hope that you could identify aspects of his personality that you do like and appreciate. And so before you criticize this type of behavior, which is part of his personality, you should make sure

that you recognize the things that you do appreciate about him. But it is something you can ask him to work on. It's not a strength of his. And in every relationship, you have strengths and weaknesses. And there are things that you're gonna do that either rub him the wrong way or just, there are gonna be things you need to work on. So you have the right to say, hey listen, I know it's not something you're into,

but again, maybe it's a double date with a friend. Can you try to be more conversational? but like, can you really, can you try to like be more conversational? I know it's like, can you just turn it on? It's like you have to ask him to make the effort, you know, because it doesn't come naturally to him. And if, you know, and again, it's something that does take effort. So you don't get to ask him to be this every time

you go out. On some level, you're gonna have to be okay with the fact that your partner is more of a quiet guy in social settings. And every once in a while when you need him to turn it on, because like, let's say for some day, like you get a job and you need to bring him to like a job event and it's like a networking event

and you just, you need your partner who's kind of helping you get into conversations, you can be like, hey man, I need you to turn it on. I need you to try to be engaging and that's a skill he can work on because it doesn't come naturally. Right. I feel like another thing too is he has a job that requires you to be pretty social. And I guess these two things probably don't necessarily go together. But I feel like he

builds such good relationships with these patients, like with his, he's in the healthcare. So with patients and stuff, they give him and like gift cards, bake him cakes, like all this stuff, which doesn't necessarily mean that he's like super talkative and I would think it would like, I don't know. So I just feel like certain things like counter and like counter are like opposite of what he says. It's not, I'm telling you. I mean, like again, I'm a, you're literally talking

to a version of your boyfriend right now. I am your boyfriend. And before I talked for a living on a podcast, I was in sales, which is a very social job. And I had clients, and I know how to turn it on. And I know I can talk all day. It's the small talk. It's the, like, at work, your boyfriend has a purpose.

He's working, he's making money, he's earning, he's done the background. Your boyfriend, I'm guessing, likes having more deeper conversations and he likes talking about topics and he likes talking about ideas. He doesn't like small talk with strangers. Okay.

And then also I have another thing I wanted to break up too for your advice. I'm in graduate school right now and I would say it's pretty rigorous. Like we have multiple exams a week, multiple quizzes a week and there was this one weekend, it was a Friday and I had like two exams on that Friday and I was staying after to work on something with a bunch of other people but he wanted to go to like a dinner and grab drinks with him and his friends and I had initially said yes, and then 30 minutes before, which probably wasn't enough time, but I kind of canceled. I was

just like, I'm really stressed. I really need to get this done. There's a lot of people here also working on that project. I feel like I need to stay. He was upset, clearly upset on the phone. He's like, okay, whatever. I understand. I was like, maybe I'll try to meet you after. He was going at 5 p.m. I was like, okay, maybe I'll try to meet you after. And he was going at like 5 p.m. And I was like, okay, maybe I'll try to meet you after. And the place was like 35 minutes away. And then I get a text message that says like, don't bother meeting me, it's raining outside,

I don't want you to drive or whatever. Which was just like, I feel like him being upset. And then I'm working on whatever I'm working on. And then I'm packing up and I'm at my like locker and I look up and he's there. He showed up at my school. I was like, why are you here? I thought you had to go for five.

At this point it was past five. And he was like, oh, we pushed it back. I just wanted to come and make sure you weren't upset at me for how we ended things on the phone or something. And then I ended up, he ended up driving me to this dinner that was 35 minutes away. And I just wanted your take on that because in my opinion, well, I don't wanna say what I feel like, but I just was curious.

I'm confused, I don't know what's the... Do you not feel like it's a little bit invasive to show up? It's almost like me showing up at his workplace. I feel like it was almost like a way in some aspects, kind of manipulative, a way to get me to go to this dinner when I said I couldn't. You couldn't or you didn't want to? I would say both, but like more than I couldn't.

Like I had a lot of exams like that next week. I had a big exam on Monday and I wanted to like spend the night working on that stuff. And him showing up was manipulative. But didn't he tell you, don't bother? Yeah, he told me don't bother. But then like he showed up at my school, which I think is just a little strange.

I mean, no, maybe you don't think so, but I don't know. I mean, I wasn't there. Your story's a bit choppy, but at the end of the day, I don't think a boyfriend showing up to surprise his girlfriend to say hi, while simultaneously saying, hey, I didn't love the way we ended things

in our last conversation, so I want to make sure we're good, is the worst thing in the world. Unless he did or said anything more than that that you're leaving out, I don't think that is manipulative. He ended up driving you to his, you got a free ride to his dinner. Did he bring it up anymore?

Did he guilt you? Did he huff and puff? He also has the right to be annoyed that you canceled on him last minute. Yes, you know, I understand that. But I just feel like he gets very fresh with me very often that I can't do certain things because like I'm studying or like he doesn't have a laundry machine in his apartment. So I'll literally go and do laundry with him like at the laundromat. But I'll be like, oh, like I'm probably gonna have to leave like in three-ish hours. Like I'm just trying to give him the timeline because like I'll literally go and do laundry with him like at the laundromat But I'll be like, oh like I'm probably gonna have to leave like in three ish hours Like I'm just trying to give him the timeline because like I have to go study for a quiz or whatever

And then he'll like his response will be like well, why don't you do that before? But like in the meantime before that like I already wrote two different essays went to the grocery store and like meal prep Do you know what I mean? So like I was taking care of other things like I just feel a little like how does he and how are you again? So he's four years older than me. So he's 27. And I'm 23. How many boyfriends have you had? This is my first official boyfriend. Okay. Yeah. You can kind of tell. Listen, I just- Well, when I told- Go ahead.

I don't know. The people who I talked to about this, I guess, talking to you, you have a very different perspective than the people close to me in my life. Because the people I told who, when he showed up at school, they thought that was absurd and a little insane that you're coming unannounced. I just feel like that's a little uncalled for. And basically, not forcing me, but I don't know.

It felt like a little force that I have to go to this dinner. But you didn't. I did go to the dinner. You ended up going with him to the dinner? Correct. And why was that? I personally felt a little pressured, regardless if it was like direct pressure, but I just felt like...

Did he say anything when he got there? Was he like, are you sure you can't go? How did you get in the car and go to the dinner? Yeah, he said, I don't like the way things ended. I was like, it's really okay, blah, blah, blah. Why are you here? Because the dinner should have started by the time he was there. And he was like, oh, people hit traffic.

Like we're just pushing it down back to 530. Like I was packed up. Like I put my stuff in the locker and I was like ready to go. What was said that made you go to the dinner? I think just him coming there. Like I felt like pressured and like, I was also exhausted. Like again, like I had a lot of exams that week.

The best night would have been like going home, getting into pajamas, eating dinner, eating ice cream on the couch. Like, you know what I mean? Like I just felt like I had no like real excuse, I guess, to say no besides that. And I feel like based off previous things, with being upset with me like-

Which one is it? Either you couldn't go or you didn't feel like going. It's just like, it's one or the other. Because you, well, first of all, you went. Let let's be clear so you could. Yeah. You're telling me that the alternative is like you'd rather just hey you've been busy you got a lot of exams and honestly if I had honestly my way which I you know I try to communicate to him earlier was I would just go home relax maybe do a little bit studying but unwind watch some like dumb television eat some ice cream go to bed

and just like reenergize myself. That's what you wanted to do. Right, and I also thought this dinner was at five, not 5.30. Whatever. So I had, yeah, well the only point of saying that is just that I was staying after to do this thing that I did finish, I ended up finishing it early.

Anyway, nothing was stopping you from when he showed up at whatever his intentions were for why he showed up. Nothing was stopping you from when he showed up at whatever his intentions were for why he showed up. Nothing was stopping you from being like, well, yeah, thanks for coming by. I didn't like how it ended either. And by the way, I'm really sorry that like I know I said I would try, but like I have way too much going on and I didn't realize. And, you know, I'm just a little stressed out with school and I know I'm letting you down. I'm really sorry. But I really just if little stressed out with school and I know I'm letting you down. I'm really sorry, but I really just, if you really need me to, but it also, it would really be helpful for me in

school if I could just go home and do it. You could have had that conversation, and that's what a relationship is. Sometimes there's a disconnect between expectations and communications and sometimes you have to reconnect by having a conversation and get on the same page. I think it's a bit unfair for you to blame him or accuse him of manipulating you into going to something you didn't want to do, just because you didn't want to speak up and communicate your needs. I've also though had that conversation with him multiple times. What conversation? Obviously, the conversation of saying,

this is really stressful, like is this important for me to go to for you? Because I feel like I- What was the dinner about? Like why did he want his girlfriend there? It was just like friends, like there was no special occasion, it was no birthday, it was no celebration.

It was just like a dinner out with like some friends. Okay, well and I'm sure he likes to have time with, you know, with the girlfriend I guess. Yeah, but- Are you too likes to have time with his girlfriend, I guess. Yeah, but... Are you too busy to have a boyfriend? I mean, you know, med school sounds pretty hard and complicated and difficult. And some people like, hey, listen, it's not like you're three years into this relationship and you're engaged and now you're like, you know, like a lot of...

I bet that you're in a med school with some're like, you know, like a lot of, I bet that you're going to med school with some engaged people, you know? And they're in a relationship and they're making it work because they're in love and their plan is to marry this person and they're grinding through med school and there's an understanding between this couple because, you know, well, they have a history, they have rapport, they understand each other's personalities

and what makes them tick and et cetera, et cetera. Now they're getting through med school together through the support of their partner who again understands them with the plan on like getting married when they get done. You are starting your first relationship ever at a time where you have no time or free time and you're being asked to be a girlfriend

when you don't always have time to be a girlfriend and you feel bad but then time for it to be a girlfriend and you feel bad, but then it's like you have to decide what you want and then you have to like are you in a position to do it? You can like him and wanna have a boyfriend, but maybe you just don't have the time to be a girlfriend. Yeah. You have the right to be in a relationship and from time to time be like,

hey, like so babe tonight, I just kinda need a little alone time, that's normal. But you're like, well, I've had multiple conversations about being busy. It's like, okay, well, how many times have you told him I'm too busy for you? I'm sure that might frustrate him too. And so here he is trying to get quality time

with his girlfriend, and then you canceled last minute. I'm sure that's frustrating for anyone. So I don't know. To me, it's like, to me, it's just like, you have to decide what you want or what you're, you know, and here you are just also trying to figure out this guy's personality and not even sure if he's the type of personality that you want. Yeah, I agree with every single thing you said.

I also feel like sometimes he makes a lot of comments too that like about me being like busy and not like having a lot of like He's always like you're always so stressed out which like I am Well, if you're in a relationship with someone who's always stressed out You can feel helpless by not being able to help them not be stressed out But like you have to let him help you not be stressed out. Maybe he's not even capable of it you being stressed out It sounds like you just want to be alone. That's a good perspective

It's tough to be his boyfriend to say, well, every time my girlfriend's stressed out, which is a lot lately, because she's in med school, which makes a lot of sense, but she just wants to be alone every time she's stressed out. So I never see her. Yes, but a lot of times that I'm alone, like I'm normally working, like I'm studying, you know what I mean? No, I get it. Listen, you're busy. You're in med school. Like, you know, there's a strong argument to be made that now's the time at 23 years old in a med school, you should be fucking around with like boyfriends because you know, it takes a lot of work to be in a healthy relationship It's it can be exhausting people are needy your needy his needy you got you both have needs you you're both

Expecting each other to meet each other's needs and right now you're not yeah I'm like it just seems a little kind of you know, instead of like just understanding that you that, you're going around asking people if my boyfriend's trying to manipulate me because he showed up at school. Well, I just think to a lot of other people in my class who are kind of going through the same thing, like they could see how that's like very frustrating slash like a lot of pressure versus just like being more of like, like to me, that's the opposite of being like supportive, which like granted, I know that like I canceled last minute and that's frustrating.

No, you're right. In that moment, he was not being supportive of you. He was thinking more about what he wanted. And that was for his girlfriend to come to his friend date, double date or whatever, and have a girl. He wanted quality time with his girlfriend and he was frustrated that what he thought was plans turned into you canceling. I don't know. I don't know why he showed up if he was hoping that you would end up

going with him. Maybe, I mean sure, maybe there's a hint of manipulation there. People are manipulative like that all the time. You've done shit like that, you know. You probably recognize it because you probably have done passive aggressive things where you just well to show up, you know, whatever. But like that's that's not the type of manipulation you need to be worried about in a relationship. Yes, could you have better communication? Sure. But if that's manipulative, fine. But then you definitely could have spoken up.

And if you I'm just saying if if you're not comfortable enough to have spoken up in that situation, if you really needed to have some alone time or to study for a test, and then you're not capable of being in a relationship with this guy. Because that's like a bare minimum. To say, hey babe, I'm really sorry for disappointing you. I know you really wanted me to go, and again, I'm sorry because I know how frustrating it is

for me to cancel last minute, and I'll owe it up to you, and also I will work on not doing that in the future, but tonight I really, I can't go. And I'm happy to talk about this, and I want to acknowledge to you and also I will work on not doing that in the future. But tonight I really, I can't go and I'm happy to talk about this and I want to acknowledge that you have every right to be frustrated, yada, yada, yada, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You could have had that conversation and you didn't. And that's on you.

I guess it just goes back to like, if I have the time to be in a relationship because I feel like a lot of the times too, when I say like, I'm stressed out about school or I have to do this and he'll be like, Oh, like I never see you. And I'll be like, well, I see you at least like twice a week. And then he'll be like oh like I never see you and I'll be like well I see you at least like twice a week and then he'll be like no I know you don't and then I'll be like yes I do and then I literally make us like count the calendar because he thinks like it's just like a straight up I'm like look at all these pictures like remember when we did this remember we did that like I don't know like it's frustrating for

me because I feel like he also doesn't recognize that like when I do have free time like I put it towards him I guess comments like, like why didn't you study for the quiz before you saw me? Like that like is frustrating for me. Yeah, he does not understand what it's like to be in med school for sure. I'm not trying to like say you have this perfect boyfriend you shouldn't break up with him.

It's just more like, yeah, I mean, you're clearly not on the same page and you're gonna have to work on, you're both gonna have to work on your communication skills, but you're definitely gonna have to be part of that equation. This is not just like things your boyfriend's doing wrong that he needs to change for your relationship to blossom. Okay, so what you're saying like the next step is just figuring out what I want and then having a conversation. Do you think I should have a

conversation about him being more quiet if he could like work towards being a little bit more talkative? No, before you start making him feel bad about his personality, maybe you should figure him feel bad about his personality, maybe you should figure out whether you have time to have a boyfriend. Because again, just like med school, relationship is a lot of work. Different, you know, not trying to necessarily compare them,

but they both take work. They can both be demanding. Obviously, a relationship, I hope you get a lot more enjoyment out of it, but it sounds like your boyfriend's love language is quality time and maybe yours isn't. But if you're going to be in a relationship with this guy, you need to figure out whether you can meet his needs and vice versa.

If you do decide, hey listen, this guy's worth it, I know I'm busy, but we just got to get on the same page, we both need to communicate better, I need to be better at speaking up when I feel strongly about something, I do need to like recognize that maybe his love language is quality time, so we need to recognize that maybe his love language is quality time, so we need to carve out more quality time. And when we do hang out, we need to figure out and make sure we're connecting and it's meaningful or whatever.

And then if you do decide that you wanna be with him, then it's like, okay, fine. Well, hey, listen, there's some things you need to work on, but there's some things he needs to work on too. And it's like, hey, listen, he's not gonna change who he is, but he can work on being more social with family and friends and people you care about.

You have to say, listen, I know this isn't your favorite thing. I know you don't love doing it. If you could work on this for me at times and really be social and make people feel included, it would mean a lot to me. And hope that he does it and works on it. Right, but that's more of just like a personality trait.

Like his, I guess it's just introvertedness. Like I was, yeah. But it's never like, hey, change who you are and start enjoying this and start. No. That's just never gonna happen. Yes, I'm not expecting that in the slightest. You know, when I keep, it's like you're busy

with SMED school and it kind of just sounds like you don't have time for him and you don't fully appreciate his personality and whether directly or indirectly like people end up feeling that. You're in your first serious relationship. You're you're you're over analyzing every little fucking interaction with this guy. It's kind of a waste of your time. Do you like him? Do you have time for him? What do you appreciate about him? The things you don't appreciate about him? What are things he's willing to work on?

And what are some of the things that you learn about him that you're simply just gonna have to accept who he is? The quiet part of who I am, at times, Natalie fucking hates. It can be tough to bring someone you're in a relationship with who is comfortable sitting in silence. Because a lot of people aren't. And it can make other people feel uncomfortable. And then no one likes to hear, it's like, why doesn't your boyfriend talk to anyone?

And then you feel like you have to defend your boyfriend when your boyfriend's like, you don't need to defend me. I don't give a fuck. Well, I think another layer of just like it being uncomfortable maybe in silence, like, I guess is also, it can almost be perceived like as almost, maybe it's not a little, yeah, rude. Yeah. Like rude or just like you have no interest. And like, I don't know.

I feel like about people who I care about, like friends and family, like I would hope that you take an interest, especially when I see him interact with his own friends and family. And he's like very talkative. It just takes some time. It's just not easy for him.

I don't know. What are things that you struggle with that other people find easy? I guess relaxing. Sure. I'm sure there's a bunch of things. My point is I can assure you it's just like we've talked about listen our world is more inviting to extroverts. So like extroverts are just considered more likeable people. We're more accepting of them. Half the population is more introverted. You know what I'm saying?

And it's a spectrum, there are variations. I can be very extroverted at times. As I've gotten older, I've become more and more introverted. But the way you describe your boyfriend in social settings around family, I've been him, I'm usually him. I cannot be him, I've had to work on those certain skills. But yeah, I mean, your family,

if he's worthwhile, they'll come around. You know what I'm saying? Eventually, if you keep dating this guy, he'll get more comfortable with people, he'll have more conversations, but it's just not gonna happen overnight. Well, like, we're going on this vacation soon. Honestly, I was like debating whether or not

to invite him for a little while, then I decided to. He said, yeah, like he'll come for a weekend or whatever. Then my mom was talking to my sister and was like, oh, we have an extra bed. Do you want to invite so and so? Then my sister was like, oh, I think her boyfriend was going to come. My mom was like, no, he's not coming. I never said he was allowed to come. He doesn't even talk to me.

I'm not having him come. That's ridiculous. Then, which I thought was rude on my mom's part and then eventually like I think like the next day she like apologized and was like of course he can come but like I just feel like I get like it's part of his personality. I totally recognize that and I totally get that. That's like I just think perhaps it might not be like the best fit for myself. Perhaps not but you need to figure that out and I can't figure it out for you. Maybe it's not a coincidence that you dated your first boyfriend at 23 years old as someone who's

more like your dad. What do you mean by that? Well, for all your mom's complaints, she's still married to the guy and I'm guessing she loves him and is happy with the relationship. I mean, I don't know, maybe your parents are just still together over years of history, but I don't know. Yeah. They're a type who would have been better like off divorce, like they like filed for divorce like several times, but never went through with it. Like they're just, I don't think the best match for each other. Gotcha.

But yeah, I mean, listen, I don't know, you might, opposites do attract, I don't know, sometimes two extroverted people get annoyed with each other. Yeah, no, yeah. It's not even like you have to be the most talkative person ever, it's just like say something, you know But overall this call was very helpful. Okay

All right, you might not have time for a boyfriend. It's the biggest takeaway. Yeah, because sometimes yeah You know and that's you could still date and get to know people but maybe you need to slow things down with this guy I don't know what it is, but clearly listen med school. It's cost money. It's a big deal So focus on med school like this is the time in your life to be selfish, you know? And someone who hasn't had a serious boyfriend beforehand, there's a lot of like bumps in the road, and there is a lot of figuring it out, and it can be draining and exhausting,

and it can, you know, you don't necessarily have time for a draining boyfriend, you know? So. Right. At the same time, like if you think he's worthwhile, like make it work, but you're wasting a lot of energy over analyzing every little situation about this and that I can assure you is not the best use of your time.

Okay. So you kind of have to accept who he is and then again, it's like, do you have time for a boyfriend? You know, if you do, then great. What are some things that, you know, how can you guys grow your connection? What are some things that, you know, how can you guys grow your connection? What are some things about him that you like to ask him to change?

What are some things about him that you're gonna have to accept? What are things about you that you want him to accept? And what are some things about you that you're willing to change? Every relationship has those conversations at some point. And you either figure out for the things that you hope they will work on over time

and be willing to improve or change, you hope to see progress. And then on certain things, you're just going to have to be like, this is their personality, this is who they are. I can nag them for the rest of my life, but this will never be a strength of theirs. Yeah. Because sometimes I even feel like I'm like, I don't even know if I'm really that into him, which like that kind of sounds bad. But like I do enjoy spending time with him, but sometimes I'm just like, I don't know if I'm really that into him, which like that kind of sounds bad, but like I do enjoy spending time with him,

but sometimes I'm just like, I don't know. So it's a lot to figure out. Lots to figure out. All right, well good luck. Thank you. Focus on med school. Thank you so much. All right, take care.

Bye. Bye bye. Helix sleep again. We'll say Sleep again. We'll say it again. We'll say it every time we do it. Helix Sleep has been a life changer for Nellie and I. Every mattress should be a Helix mattress. I don't know what it is.

They should have a monopoly on the mattress game. It will improve world peace. Every single night we get into bed, we do a... Ah. That was great. That was good. And every time we wake up, we're like, I don't wanna leave our mattress. And every time we travel, we do a, ah. That was great. That was good. That was really good. And every time we wake up, we're like,

I don't wanna leave our mattress. And every time we travel, we're like, ah, but can't we bring our bed? It's that great. It's so comfortable. We personally use the Moonlight mattress if you want to test out what we're talking about. They also have the Helix Plus,

a mattress designed for big and tall sleepers, and the Helix Kids Mattress, which is designed for growing bodies and endorsed by child sleep experts. Helix knows there's no better way to try out a mattress than to sleep on it in your own home. That's why they are offering you a 100-night trial and a 10 to 15-year warranty to try out

on your new Helix mattress. Don't want to take our word for it? Well, Helix has been awarded the number one mattress picked by GQ and Wired Magazine, and it is even recommended by multiple leading chiropractors and doctors of sleep medicine as a go-to solution for improving your sleep. Helix is offering up to 30% off all mattresses and two free pillows.

For our listeners, go to helixsleep.com slash V-I-A-L-L. It is helixsleep.com slash V-I-A-L-L. With Helix, better sleep starts now. Summer is just around the corner and with the warm weather approaching, you want to be set. Well, Apostrophe is here to help you get your skin glowing in time for summer. Apostrophe's goal is to help you feel confident in your own skin. Whether you're dealing with breakouts, signs of aging, or acne scarring,

Apostrophe will help you love the skin you're in. Apostrophe is an online platform that connects you with an expert dermatology team to get you customized acne treatment for your unique skin. Through Apostrophe, you can get access to oral and topical medications that use clinically proven ingredients to help clear acne. All you have to do is fill out an online consultation about your skin goals and medical history.

Then snap a few selfies and a dermatology provider will create a customized treatment plan just for you. The process is really, really easy. Just identify your skin goals, fill out the consultation, take some photos, you're on your way to getting access to treatment. They've really got you covered. Apostrophe offers access to prescription treatments

for all types of acne, from hormonal acne to facial acne, and even back, chest, and butt acne. Treat breakouts from head to toe. We have a special deal for our audience. Get your first visit for only $5 at apostrophe.com slash viall when you use our code, viall. That is a savings of $15. This code is only available to our listeners.

To get started, just go to apostrophe.com slash V-I-A-L-L and click to get started, then use our code V-I-A-L-L at sign up and you'll get your first visit for only $5. Thank you, Apostrophe, for sponsoring this episode. How's it going? Good. My name is Kylie. I'm 30 years old and I am concerned that my boyfriend is prioritizing his family over us because he's no longer down to move.

Okay. How long have you been with your boyfriend? About two and a half years. Okay. And when you say he's no longer down to move, I'm assuming you guys had some previous agreement that you guys would move somewhere. And I'm guessing right now you guys currently live with where the majority of his family lives.

Is that accurate? Give me a little backstory. Yeah, so we started dating in September of 2021. And it wasn't that long after that I did realize that I still hadn't fully healed from my previous relationship. And it was March of 2023 that I told my boyfriend that I needed kind of some space. I needed to kind of take a pause on our relationship to heal and to kind of figure out what I wanted. Okay. How did he handle that? So he was very understanding because he knew my previous relationship.

It was almost like a marriage where we had been like together for six years. There was like a ring. We had a business together, animals together. So he was really understanding about the break. However, we didn't do too good at the break itself. So we kind of continued talking. We continued seeing each other. We did both date. I didn't go on more than two dates with someone though, because everyone didn't really compare

to him. And it actually wasn't until this past fall when we started to become more serious again in the fact that, you know, we spent holidays with each other's family. We were planning to move in together at the start of this year. And we were kind of talking about the plans of the future even after my lease ended, which is going to be ending in July. And with our talks, we were kind of planning on moving back to where I grew up, which is going to be ending in July. And with our talks, we were kind of planning on moving back to where I grew up, which is on the complete

other side of the country. I have made it very clear that I do not like it here. I haven't liked it here. I've lived here for 12 years. I've given it a fair shot. And that I didn't have any intention of settling down or raising a family here. And he always told me that he was down to live wherever and try anywhere out. So then come back to our plans on moving to where I grew up. He was on board. We visited condos.

He was like, I'm so down. I love it here. We can give it a shot once your lease is up in July. And then we moved in together and made things official in January. We live together here. We've been living together here. From my perspective, things have been going great. And then kind of around March is when we started talking more about the plans of where we're going to live next again with the state that I grew up in. That's when he brought up that he wasn't down to move

anymore. That he was like, I can't do this. This is, you know, across the country. I can't be that far from my family. And as much as it devastated me, because this is kind of my ultimate dream, I understood that that's a lot to ask of someone to move across the country. So I'm like, okay, let's pivot. We kind of came up with a new plan to find a different state that's closer nearby that is a little more like how it was raised and, you know, what I prefer, but not obviously where we live now. So we kind of settled on staying in the state and moving kind of far away. And we were kind of excited about it. We sent each other houses, we sent each other apartments. Like it all seemed like we were going in the right direction.

And then two months ago, he mentioned this to his family. And it was almost like a night and day difference where he was like, he came back from hanging out with his family and he's like, I don't want to move at all. I want to stay here. I want to like raise a family by my family and kind of all of that. How old's your boyfriend?

He's 30 as well. I didn't handle it well. And I kind of broke up with him on the spot and I was like, I'm so done. Like you've gotten me all excited to finally move anywhere. And like now you're just gonna completely say no. And then I had a day or two to think and reflect and I came back to him and I apologized.

I'm like, I'm sorry, that was just a lot for me. Like let's figure out a way to make this work for the both of us. So I kind of came up with as many compromises as I could think possible. Okay, kind of tough to compromise when you don't wanna live there and he does. Right, so I guess my compromises were kind of like,

okay, we can just move for like a year or two, I can at least like get a change of scenery and then we can come back, we could raise kids for like the beginning year with your family, do all that and then one day we can move again somewhere else. Another compromise I gave was we could live kind of both places, maybe one day we could get like, you know, a lake house somewhere. My biggest thing is that I feel like I need to be more connected to nature. And it got to the point where I was like, we can just stay here, but like, I need to

go to nature more often. And the answer that he gave me was that sounds like a lot of work. And that's kind of the predicament I've been in in the past two months is like, I feel like I'm the only one fighting and trying to give compromises and ways to make this work. And it seems like he just like changed his mind. And he's just like, no, my family means the most to me. Like if we don't do it exactly my way, I'll be okay without you is what it feels like. What is he actually saying? Like when you broke up with him, how did he handle that?

So he's not the best at, you know, talking about his emotions. So he didn't say much. He just kind of went to his parents. And it's like, I'm always kind of doing the talking and he agrees a lot of the time, but he doesn't necessarily say exactly how he's feeling. So how do you know how he feels? Like how do I know what he wants? Yeah.

All he does tell me is that he wants to be close to his family. Okay. And I tell him, I'm like, well, do you want to be with me? And he says, yes. But then I feel like his actions aren't necessarily adding up to that, considering it's like, I feel like I'm the only one verbally fighting for us here. Unfortunately, this is a potential non-negotiable for both of you. Yeah. Where you live and raise your family is a big deal, obviously.

You don't need me to point that out to you. It's what you're fighting over with your partner. Right. It absolutely sucks that he made you feel like he was willing to move. I want to realize that maybe he's not. But that wouldn't be the first time that's happened before. I just don't know if there's a compromise here. I guess is what I'm saying.

And I get it. He came to you, he was like, I can't do this. You freaked out, broke up, said, all right, I don't want to lose you. I know I was really mad. Let's try to figure it out, right? And like you said, it sounds like it feels like you're the one trying to figure it out,

but even your ideas, they're not, I say this with love, they're not the best ideas. I don't know if there's a solution to your problem. And like, what I mean by this is like, it's not really a compromise to be like, well, let's just move for a year and then we'll see. Well, okay. Because you know, deep down you're hoping, well, you can move.

And then now, like, he has the upper hand because you're both in the city that he wants to be in. And moving sucks, just generally speaking. But if you were to get him to move for like just a year to see how it goes, well then, it's like deep downhill knows that you'll end the upper hand there because then and like that's not really a solution to like move and see. The reality is is that you guys have very strong feelings

about something you're not on the same page about and and you do need to get on the same page. One of you two is going to have to make that major compromise. One or two things are happening like you said it started with I feel like he's prioritizing his family over me. I wouldn't see it that way. He might be prioritizing his needs over yours. Well, there's kind of more to it that I could probably add that would make a little more sense.

Go ahead. So when he told his family about all this is when kind of he made the 180, and I did find out that his mom was texting him, basically saying to him that she thinks that I might be emotionally manipulating him because I only wanna do things like my way, I'm trying to pull him away from everyone he loves.

That's not that shocking, is it? I mean, listen, I don't know. I kind of understand because I. I know nothing about his mom or I barely know anything about you or your boyfriend. But like just my son's in love with a girl and all she wants to do is move. And how long you been together with your boyfriend? Like two and a half years. Yeah, two and a half, you know.

And so like she's been his mom for 30 years and she doesn't want to see her son move. And so she is definitely being selfish. And I'm just saying like, it's not that shocking cause she had gone about it in a better way for sure. Yeah. I think the thing I'm trying to figure out is if I could stay here, another big problem for me is the lack of boundaries.

And I feel like maturity he has because of his family. And that's a whole nother part of this equation. Oh yeah, that was kind of my next question. It's just like, is your boyfriend making decisions for himself or is he easy influenced by people? He's really easily influenced. Like his brother and him, they basically tell each other what to do and they do the

same thing. They'll be like, I bought this office chair, you need to buy this office chair. And they'll like do it. And there have been a lot of red flags that have happened since living with him, where he has put his family in front of us and there's been no boundaries. And that's been an issue with me. Like, I honestly do love them and I love hanging out with them. But do you want me to maybe give you an example of like the lack of boundaries? It was his birthday weekend. We spent a lot of time with

his family and the next week I was like, Hey, like, I feel like we've had a lot of time with your family. Like I'd really just like to have a date, just the two of us to kind of reconnect all that. And I'm like, why don't we go play pickleball? And he's like, great. So on our way to pickleball, which is in the neighborhood of his parents, the court, he's like, Oh, can we stop at my parents really quick so I can grab something?

I'm like, OK, so he goes and grabs something. And then next thing I know, the parents are coming along to pickleball and he's like, oh, they're just gonna hang out and do kind of their own thing. And then we get there and next thing I know, the dad is playing pickleball with him and I'm watching them play. And I'm just like, I literally communicated to you

that this is supposed to be us and now your parents are in the middle of our date. What'd he say? Oh, they just wanted to hang out. We've been in couples therapy the past month and he did like acknowledge like, okay, like, yeah, I need to maybe work on like boundaries when it comes to stuff like that. But I see it as an even deeper issue where they baby him so much that I just feel that he's lacking in a lot of like skills of being like a potential like husband and father because they're babying him if that makes sense. Yeah it does but you kind of have to figure that out. Right so it's it's

kind of like twofold I'm like does this sound like a lost cause I guess like are people able to kind of like grow up from their like deep attachment with their family if we're going to be living in the same city as them potentially? Potentially. Yeah. Your guys are in couples therapy together. So that's a start. Did you have to drag him there? I had to ask a few times and he was nervous. And then as soon as you know, we did the first session now he's like on board with it, which kind of knew was gonna happen. Okay, but I guess it's like how far do you go? Do I consider letting go of what I've always wanted for someone who's not making me feel like I don't even know how important

I am to him right now. I guess I guess right now. Yes, it's unclear whether this is your person for one You both want to end up at two different parts of the country. And that's not a small thing. People act like it is. Two different parts of the state. Well, that's the compromise. Yeah, but I really do think I could be happy with it. You do think, but you don't know because you've never lived there. You know where you would be happy. Yeah. Listen, Natalie moved to LA for me. She didn't move to LA for any other reason. And I don't think LA is her favorite city in the world. She's definitely making a sacrifice. And like, yeah, I think she's grown to like LA and it's

our home and it's where we had our first daughter. And we are fortunately in a position where we can travel a lot and have been able to invest in other properties where we are from. So, you know, yes. But at the same time, she's made a sacrifice given our situation that made the most sense. I get your frustration. I get your frustration that it feels like almost like his mom made the decision for him about where he should end up. And it seems like his parents still have a lot of influence and the decision he makes for himself as a 30 year old man, which is just kind of an ache in general.

Like, cause you can love your family and be there for your family, but like at some point you have to make decisions for yourself as an adult. Certainly it's great to consider your family and be there for your family, but like, when it seems like mom's still making the decisions for you, yeah, that's a problem. I'm guessing in couples therapy this is a main topic yeah so we've really talked about the move a lot but we are still only like four or five sessions in so we're kind

of unraveling a lot from our past as well right now too last session he actually mentioned that he feels like he has commitment issues now to me because of the break. That doesn't make sense. Right. That's kind of how I feel. He's like, it was just really hard for me, the break, but I'm like, but I was completely honest with you and you agreed to it. And he's like, I understand that.

But then in the same like next breath to the therapist, he's like, I understand that. But then in the same, like next breath to the therapist, he's like, I don't know how I could consider marrying someone who kind of put me through this. That's not great to hear. That's not a product. What did your therapist say? She kind of was like validating both of us where she was like, I understand how that must have been really tough for you. But then also, like, you did agree to do it. And that's kind of what my personal therapist has said too, is like, you know, he was a big boy.

He could have said, like, I'm not gonna talk to you if we're not gonna be in a relationship. And like, he chose to keep talking throughout the whole thing. He has the right to say, hey, can I be totally honest with you? That break that happened between us early in our relationship, I think it affects me more than I realize.

And I'd like to talk about that because I think I have some residual bad taste in my mouth. I feel like I never really spoke up. And I think it affects some trust issues. And I'd like to work on that. That would be fair. Right. To say, I don't know if I can marry someone who did that to me, that just sounds like a venting session

or an excuse or him trying to come up with reasons for why he should end the relationship. To be honest, that's how it sounds. Right, yeah, I mean. It's like, what does he wanna do? Like, do you wanna talk about it? Do you wanna fix it? I'm like, yeah, I did that, we did that,

but like, what, you know, I don't know if I could be with someone who did that to me. It's like, okay, did what? Yeah, and he, he's yet to say, I want to make this work. Like, can you please like stay here? Or like, can we do like, just not, like there's been no kind of a statement of that. And then he says stuff like that in therapy.

And then the next day he's like all over me. And like, I swear to God, it's like this man would propose to me is how I feel when I'm with him. Like back a couple of months ago, he would always fake propose to me. He would like point to my ring finger in front of my mom. Like all these things that made me think that we were farther along than like what he seems like he is now. And it's just like, am I crazy to stay here for this guy?

Yeah, I mean, you are describing a kind of emotionally immature person. I don't know if that's who he actually is, but yeah, yeah, there's some definite red flags here. There's some definite red flags, you know, the one being is it's like, like I wrote in my book, it's just like, listen, you have to understand the difference between non-negotiables and pet peeves. For example, a difference in religion is a non-negotiable, potentially.

If you were a devout Catholic and he, or even just an evangelical Christian, which I know they're both Christian beliefs, but they can often be opposing beliefs. And if you were like, hey, I'm a devout Catholic, I need, this really matters to me. And, you know, event, he could be like, oh yeah, I guess I don't really care about religion.

You know, and then he decided he, like, it's, how are you gonna raise your kids? You know, that matters. And like, those are things that, you know, sometimes you just don't compromise and stuff like that. Sometimes you just realize that, you know, you're just on a different page. And as much as you might like each other, and there's a lot of good in your relationship, You just realize that you're just on a different page

and as much as you might like each other and there's a lot of good in your relationship, but you're both not willing to budge on this topic and you might have to break up over that. Living in a different, wanting to live in a different part of the world, hard to compromise on that. And you think somewhere just like seven hours away is a lot?

It's not for me to say. Yeah. You know what I'm saying, what's seven hour, it's just more, yeah, he's not gonna see his family as much, I don't know. Like he could say the same thing back to you. Like why can't you just go up to, you know, it's only seven hours away,

just go to the woods up there, you know what I'm saying? Like why can't you just live here and we can just vacation every once in a while? It's just like, why would we go to a place where none of our families are, my family's here at least, you know? He could say that to you, you know? And he wouldn't be crazy for saying it.

I don't think like that's really your big problem. Your big problem is, is just like, he seems like you're dating a guy who is still very much, you know, reliant on, he's not making decisions for himself and he also doesn't seem to be consistent with his communication. Yeah, that's why I'm having the issue making the sacrifice for exactly that reason, I think. And it feels to you right now that you are trying to do a lot of the saving or the mending of the problems in the

relationship and all he is doing right now is kind of like being willing to go along, which can get frustrating at times. Yeah. Have you ever asked him? I guess. It's just like, hey, listen, I mean, have you asked him if he wants to be with you?

Yeah, I feel like I've tried asking him everything and he just is like, oh, I love you. And what did you say back to the accusation of your mom accusing you of being manipulative? What did he say to her? What did you say to him? I said that it made me super uncomfortable because one, already kind of found out from someone else that he doesn't tell the full story. And that's why, sure.

If I was his mom, I would think the same thing, because the way he's telling it to people is like, I'm just like, let's get up and move. Like I need it my way, which like isn't what I'm doing here. I'm like, you told me for seven months that we were going to do this one. And then two, I'm coming up with all these compromises and like you're kind of making me look like I'm not here to compromise at all and I just need things to go my way so yeah because I'm never mine is his mom but at the same time it doesn't feel like compromise or her because you're just trying to think of anything to not live here and all she cares about is him not moving period

so right and then there's like the other part of this where it's like I kind of do want us to move a little bit away from his family at least for a year or two so he can grow up but it's like can I ask him to do that? You can ask him anything you want you know is he willing to do it but I don't think you getting him to move for a year is gonna make him necessarily because at the same time you don't like I'm guessing you you don't wanna be his mom either. And if your boyfriend really has some maturing to do in terms of being his own person and being his own man and making decisions for himself

and then making decisions with his partner while still standing his ground and communicating, it's like you don't even know for sure if in the seven months of him agreeing to move with you, if he just didn't have the fucking balls to tell you that, you know, he didn't really want to. And you have no idea for certainty if he's using his mom as an excuse, the same way you're frustrated

with the stories, like the lack of stories he tells you, maybe the stories you hear are like, you know what I'm saying? Like that could be the situation too. And you need a partner who you feel like you're on the same page with, and he goes out of his way to be on the same page with you and vice versa.

And if there is a point of disconnect, he can communicate that with you. And you feel like it's coming from him, as opposed to from someone else. And you don't really know. And he's not communicating with you on where this opposed to from someone else. And you don't really know. And he's not communicating with you on where this is coming from. And now he's just not,

he's not even giving you the security of knowing he wants to be in this relationship. In fact, if anything, in couples therapy, he out of left field was kind of throwing criticisms and daggers that you really didn't know what to do with. Cause it's like, well, okay, my, how can I fix that? It's not like you got bored and was like, I don't want to fuck other people. You were like, hey, I'm stronger now. I need some space. And then he agreed to it and you guys got back together and like, what were you supposed to do? And

then he's saying things like, I don't know if I could date someone who did that to me. And it's like, did, did what? Ask for space? And it's like, the only thing he's saying is, I don't know if I could be with you. Not like, hey, I really wanna figure out how to, at 30 years old, at two and a half years in a relationship, what I'll say to you is, it's more than fair for you to expect to be with someone who can say to you, listen, I wanna be with you, I see a future with you,

and I wanna start talking about the type of life we wanna build together, and I wanna make you a priority, and I want you, I see a future with you, and I want to start talking about the type of life we want to build together, and I want to make you a priority, and I want you to feel like a priority to me, and vice versa, and if his family is a priority to him, which would be normal, and I'm sure you probably love that about him, he can say, listen, my family is a priority to me. My family is a priority to me.

Natalie's family is a priority to her, maybe even in different ways, but we've communicated that. Now, that can mean a bunch of different things, you know? If he's saying, well listen, my family is a priority to her, maybe even in different ways, but we've communicated that. Now, that can mean a bunch of different things, you know? If he's saying, well, listen, my family is a priority to me and it's a priority that I live in the same city, well, that might be a problem, but like you can, your family can still be a priority or you can not live in the same city, you know,

type of thing, but like, I guess what I'm saying is his family can be a priority and you can feel like you're still a bigger priority, but right now you don't. You don't know who's pulling the strings, so to speak. Yeah, like even just like going on dates, like he doesn't plan dates for us, but then like every week he has plans with his family. Who makes those plans?

That's something I don't know. I don't know if it's his brother or his dad, but every week he has plans to like go golf with his family and like go do this. And then there's been a few instances where we had plans and he will like offer like maybe we can cancel these plans a little bit because I want to stay with my family. And I'm just like, aren't I supposed to be the priority here? Yeah, I mean, but you're not. You're not. So I would stop focusing on moving in couples therapy.

I would focus more on his relationship with his family. And it's like, hey, listen, I don't want to sound like the person who wants to come between him and his family. I'm assuming that's the case. For like, I'm not some person who needs to be someone's only priority and I'm not trying to control him. In fact, I love that he's close to this family, but at the same time, just giving you an example,

therapist, like you gave me, it's just like, what I don't want to happen is to ask my boyfriend for some quality time, suggest a pickleball date, and it turns into him playing pickleball with his dad and me watching, and that's a fairly common occurrence. Like maybe not the pickleball specifically, but the fact that like he seems very committed

to always being around his family. And it's gotten to the point where I don't want to feel like I'm annoyed by his family, but there's like, it's just a lot, it's a lot. And I think that's something you can say, cause that's a lot to say. And you say that in couples therapy, so that like when he eventually gets triggered

by what you say, hopefully your therapist can talk him off the ledge. And you could say, like sometimes I don't know if it's like if he's making a decision or the decision is coming from mom and dad. And at the same time, if I wanna be in a relationship with someone who we can make decisions together, I don't wanna make a decision with my partner

and have to make sure it gets green light by his parents. But that's a fair thing to ask of him, right? Like yeah It's also like a fair thing to realize that maybe like it's just to be totally honest with you like What you're describing I don't think is gonna change overnight. So you're kind of saying unless I want to go hang out with his parents once a week and Have this be a long road of him finding his independence Does he want to find his independence for this anymore? Does does he want to I don't know I don't think so And I think I think that's why he wants to stay here because he's never lived away from his family

Even when he went to college, he went to college with his brother So he has this like safe bubble and like he doesn't spend a lot of time by himself. I'm a wedding photographer and every time I have a wedding, I'm like, oh, what are you going to do? He's like, I'm going to go to my parents like every time. And I'm just like, do you ever do anything by yourself? Maybe you're just not that compatible. Yeah, that's what I'm trying to figure out. It's like maybe there's someone for him that wants to go to his parents twice a week

and is okay staying in this bubble. Maybe. But I'm like, is it not fair to ask him to get out of his bubble? You can certainly ask. Or is it unreasonable, I guess? No, it's not unreasonable. It might be more unrealistic for you

to hope that it actually happens. It's more than reasonable. It's more than fair. If I were a betting man, I would bet against it. Okay, and if you were me at 30 years old, what would you do? Yeah, listen, without knowing a lot about him or the dynamic, I would focus on couples,

when you guys go to couples therapy, which I would still continue to go with him I would take advantage of the fact that he's willing talk to him in couples therapy I love you And if I had it my way today, I would love I want to figure out a way that we can be together forever But I'm starting to be more honest with myself about if that's even possible Because as much as I love you, I'm concerned about us how compatible we are. And then you can explain why.

And it's just like, I don't want to feel like I'm constantly coming in between your family. And while family is important to me, it seems to be more of a priority for you. And I want someone who has a little bit more independence from their family. Hang out with your parents multiple times a week. For me, it's a lot and I'm not,

you know, and I, you're not trying to judge them, but it's just more like, that's, it's hard for me. And I don't want to feel like I'm pulling you away when I, you know, when I want to consider the moving thing is like a whole, to me, that's like, God, you guys are so far away from that. Our lease is up in July, but we have to figure out where we're moving in the next month. Yeah, but that's. Or whether we're staying together. But that's the next month. Yeah, but that's-

Or whether we're staying together. But that's the thing, like, what's, you know, listen, your lease is up in July, like you said, are you gonna, in a month, decide to move cross-con, like, can you sign a month to month? I don't know. I guess the way I was planning on it was that I was just gonna keep going to couples therapy,

I was gonna kind of put the ball in his court, and if, you know, at the end of the month- What do you mean by the ball in his court. And if you know at the end of the month, he's like, I still don't know. Well, I don't know if he's the type of person you wanna put the ball in his court. He's not exactly Mr. Decision Maker. Well, I think more of like, if he is gonna decide that he wants to try and make it work with me,

that part I kind of was gonna hope to put in his court. And if he's still like, I don't know if we're going to be together, I don't know, whatever. Then like, that's just kind of where I draw the line. I just want to feel like he a hundred percent is choosing me. Yeah. So say that to him in couples therapy, but I wouldn't put the ball in his court. You need to decide, you need, I want you to make the decision whether you think

you're compatible, but you have to like consider who he is and what he wants. But I want it to be your decision, not his. I want him to make the decision with you. You know what I'm saying? I guess it's like- I think I could make it work. I just feel like I need to hear him

that he really loves me and wants to be with me, and I haven't heard that. And that's- It matters. But also more than more than the words of affirmation saying he wants to be with you I'm guessing you also need to see his ability to make you feel like a priority to not always feel like your second choice to his family and that matters and you're right it's not it's a normal feeling to want to have and you deserve to have that. And maybe that's not him,

not everyone is interested in that. Yeah, he might find someone who like loves how close he is with his family and maybe always wanted a family as close with his because they never had one and so, it is fucking love it, but that's not you and that doesn't make that and that's okay. And I couldn't do that. That's not for me

Both nally and I love each other's families and we feel both lucky to have the families that we have and the in-laws that we have But neither of us would be interested in having that much dependency with both of our families Like you know what i'm saying? Like it would be a lot, you know There are times where like nally's mom has been super helpful with the baby and she's been living with us and it's great. And my parents are up at the lake and we like to go to the lake and we spend a lot of time with our families there,

but that's different than every week and multiple times a week. It's not if, but okay, when are your parents gonna be here? And always checking in with mom and dad and still almost getting permission from mom and dad at 30 years old. That would drive me fucking nuts. And it would drive Natalie nuts.

That you're not alone. So. Well, that's validating to hear because that's how I feel. But yeah, it sounds to me like he is, he needs to grow up. He's not the best communicator. I almost feel like his parents are getting

a little bit more of the blame than they deserve. At the end of the day, he is a man who has to decide for himself what he wants. And like you even said, you can understand why his parents wanna stay close to their son. But most, you know, he needs to say, I wanna leave the nest, so to speak. I want to spread my wings.

I want to be my own person. And a lot of parents are resistant to that. I guess I was fortunate enough, my parents, to see the big picture and selflessly know that they wanted me to stay there, but I deserve to live my own life for myself and make my own decisions. But not every parent is like that.

And like you said, you wanna be chosen, you know? And right now, he's not. Right now, he's looking for a girlfriend to accommodate his life needs and work around his family dynamic. And there are plenty of times where I, especially now, because she's my wife, where Nellie is my family,

and he is not interested in seeing that. You want to marry someone who, when they become your husband, that's his family. That's his immediate family. And yeah, he's close with mom and dad and they're there and they visit and there's a bond there, but when he says his family, he doesn't think of mom and dad and his brother. He thinks of his wife and his kids. I mean, everything you're saying is exactly how I'm feeling. So I think you have some tough choices to make and I

think you have to consider the possibility that he's not your guy and maybe you're just not compatible. There's a lot of love there. He seems like a good guy, but like calmly in couples therapy suggests the possibility that you two aren't together, aren't right for each other. And if you don't see him squirm or fight or get anxious, then you'll have your answer. Okay. If he's like, yeah, maybe we're not, then you know, then I think just move on. Okay. If the possibility of you getting your independence and saying, as much as I love you,

I feel like we're just being pulled in different directions and I feel like we maybe want different things and it makes me really sad. And you could say, hell, I would even consider living here even though I don't want to because I love you, but I also don't wanna make such a sacrifice only to feel like I'm still second tier priority to your family and I don't feel like I'm wrong for saying that. If that doesn't make him go wait well hold on I

want I really want to fix this and oh my god you know like then then I think you have your answer. I think that is what's going to happen. I think he's just going to be quiet. Well there you go maybe you already know the answer. Because that's what he always does. Well, don't take a lot of time figuring it out. Yeah. Well, I only have a month, so I'm gonna have to move eventually, so. All right, well, you're still-

I have a couple of therapy in an hour. There you go. All right, well, good luck. Greaseless kids. You're only 30. Just remember that. I know that maybe for you, that sounds different than when I say it, but.

Yeah, it's tough. It's tough, but you'll survive this, I promise, if you decide to move on. Well, thank you so much. I really do appreciate it. My pleasure. Please keep us posted with what you decide to do. I definitely will.

All right, take care. Music